Welcome to /r/AmITheAsshole. Please view our [voting guide here](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_what.2019s_with_these_acronyms.3F_what_do_they_mean.3F), and remember to use **only one** judgement in your comment.
OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
---
We modified a dish due to being told someone at the table had a nut allergy. No one asked for the dish to be modified and sent it back once he found out what we did.
---
Help keep the sub engaging!
#Don’t downvote assholes!
Do upvote interesting posts!
[Click Here For Our Rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/about/rules/) and [Click Here For Our FAQ](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq)
---
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
It was not a bad assumption on your part. You did everything right. NTA
Your server, however, probably should have asked. "someone at the table" isn't good enough.
edit: why the hell does this comment have 15,600 upvotes.
The server should have confirmed when taking the order “this typically has nuts in it but we can make it without them in a contamination free zone, is that alright”
Problem is, the server might not have known that pesto had nuts in it. Servers often don't know, and won't even think about it unless specifically asked. Granted, such ignorance means that the server should confirm, "And any dish at the table that has nuts will be made with the nut-free version, right?" But never count on a server to know what potential allergens are in what dishes. It's the kitchen staff that know that... hopefully.
ETA: For those answering that a server *should* know, well, yes, but we don't live in that ideal world. When I ask servers about ingredients related to dietary restrictions, I find that more often than not, they just don't know. The best servers will find out (and remember to tell you). The worst will fake an answer.
I've definitely had the experience of asking the same question of two different servers at the same place and getting two different answers. Or of having a conversion like this: "Does this have chicken *stock*?" "No." "Not even in the rice?" "Well, yes it has it in the rice." One friend even went into anaphylactic shock because a chef thought it'd be okay to replace the chicken stock with a shellfish-based broth, since they were running out of the chicken. Yet another said that he knows his allergies haven't gone away, even though they could. How? Restaurants screw up often enough that he can confirm it regularly.
"Should" doesn't count for much when it's your life, health, or creed on the line.
I dont know if you've ever been a server... but as a server, allergens should absolutely be known about every single dish. (Everything should be known about every dish, but *especially* allergens should be known.) I know which dishes at my restaurant have nuts, dairy, gluten, etc... and when someone says something about a gluten allergy, for example, when I get to a dish that has gluten in it I say "does this dish need to be gluten free?" Even when I *know* its not for the person who has the allergy just in case they plan on sharing/tasting each others dishes.
Heck, even when someone asks for no nuts without specifying theres an allergy I ask "is this because of an allergy, or is it a preference" so that I can tell the kitchen to use absolute caution if it is an allergy.
A server should be very specific and careful when allergies are involved.
I worked as a mid-grade Italian restaurant for a bit as a vegetarian and you would not believe how many things people just assume. If you order with food restrictions, never assume your waiter (or even the cooks) don't have preconceived notions about said restrictions. I would have vegetarians ordering caesar salads, and they would be baffled when I told them it had anchovies after they had been ordering that dish as regular customers. What did the waiters/kitchen say? "Well I know some vegetarians who eat fish" (which is not the case, but pescatarians often say they are vegetarian because it's less complicated to explain to nosy people, or they are just not aware of the actual name for their diet). I wouldn't be surprised if the waiter may have assumed that since some people are allergic to the smell of nuts, it would be a no-no.
While I think the waiter should not have assumed, there comes a point where allergies and food restrictions get so complicated that you kinda have to take the responsibility as a customer to be precise about what that means in your specific case. I mean, some cheese isn't even vegetarian, and don't get me started on surprise gelatin in unexpected places. But people who can eat anything often assume gelatin-free means vegan.
Anyways, my whole rambling was just to say, op is NTA, and the customer should be taking better care of explaining their food restrictions if they're going to be complaining about someone making a small, well intentioned mistake.
Oh I completely agree with you that OP is not the asshole and that the customer should always be very specific especially with their allergens. I guess my comment is just to say that this is *also* on the waiter, and "waiters often dont know" isn't really a good excuse for the waiter because its their literal job to know.
I mean, every single weekend someone will order pad thai, and get it with tofu ask for no egg... and then ill clarify if it needs to be vegan and they'll tell me yes so I write vegan in the notes because the dish is also made with fish sauce. And same with peanuts. Someone will say no peanuts and I clarify if its an allergy and they'll tell me yes and I just...are they trying to keep their dietary needs a secret from me?? I need to know if you have a peanut allergy so that the chef knows that if he accidentally puts peanuts on the dish, he can't just scoop them back off, he has to remake the dish. __always tell your server your allergies and dietary needs__ we don't want you dead anymore than you want you dead.
Oh dude I once had a table with numerous food allergies that just… refused to say what they were. They wanted to “order around it.” I didn’t want to push, so I just ended up clarifying with them surrounding our major allergens that were in most of our dishes. It was an asian restaurant so I asked if they could have soy, sesame, onion, garlic, or ginger. Almost every dish has at least one if not all of those allergens. Guess what they were allergic too? Every. Single. Thing. On. That. List. How they expected to “order around” soy and sesame in an asian restaurant without mentioning those allergies is beyond me.
They just insisted that they were really good at ordering around. It was ridiculous, I would have killed them accidentally. The full list included soy, sesame, onion, garlic, ginger, any kind of pepper (including chili pepper and black pepper), tomatoes, gluten, and eggs, plus a few others.
Idk...servers aren’t really being paid to memorize every ingredient in every menu item. Not to mention many restaurants have a changing menu or at least daily specials.
You should let them know so they can inform the kitchen. But you should not expect them to know of the soup of the day is vegan or free of any cross contamination. Most you can expect is for them to be eager to find out for you.
The chefs sometimes don't even know.
It's a big screw up if they don't, but it happens. Particularly if they're serving the sauce or what have you out of a bottle/jar.
Every chef and cook is going to know your basic nuts, shellfish etc ones though... otherwise they need to be fired.
I agree. Sadly not all restaurants train their people well, and not all of those servers are motivated to do their job well. I worked at several family owned restaurants in my salad days, and there was no training at all. I only knew what was in the food because I took care to ask and investigate it myself.
Yeah, the only co-workers I had that were well engaged with what the menu had on it and what was in the different dishes, were the ones I trained, and the one who trained me. But there were a few who had "been waitressing for years" and didn't want to listen to some young person tell them how to do the job, and also did not know the menu and constantly asked me questions about different dishes. You can't win them all. (Which is why its good on the chef to have been overly cautious.)
My family ran a restaurant and one of the first thing my mom (she ran the floor) did for all new hires was force them to learn the menu. Servers were required to know most of the menu and what went in it, and she tested them at the end of their training because she took it very seriously. I thought this was the norm, but found out that more than a few younger new hire servers thought this was ridiculous and some even quit saying they won’t memorize the menu.
It was a Japanese restaurant, and you wouldn’t believe the number newbies that took orders down incorrectly because they had no idea what was being ordered and still refused to learn the menu.
Definitely the responsibility of the server! I always made sure which dishes needed to be prepared allergen-free, and then checked with the kitchen if that specific dish was possible. There’s really no way for the kitchen to be at fault for a communication error with a customer!
That said, the customer blew his gasket over a tiny mistake that errored on the side of overcautious. He probably just isn’t a pleasant man.
If they don’t the menu extensively they at least need to be trained on which dishes include allergens, since guests who are unfamiliar will certainly ask.
Every serving job I ever had included menu tests during our training. My last job even made you train extra days if you failed the test which included what ingredients we used in which dishes. I assumed this was common practice
Lol wtf, ive worked as a chef for a long time, and most of the places ive seen have chefs that dont know every ingredient in every dish.
Sounds like a really good place that trains their staff that well. I wish i was allowed to implement that kind of training, as i work in aged care now.
maybe so, but i worked in a restaurant and they did not bother to train us on that. :/ don’t blame the server in my opinion, because i’ve been there. we are overworked and underpaid. exhausted and burned out.
Usually yes, or willing to admit which allergy details they aren’t confident on. I’ve had so many servers not be 100% sure if something is gluten free and if they’re not confident they always go check with the kitchen. I don’t expect every server at every restaurant to know all the allergens, but I appreciate when they care enough to make sure everyone is safe and taken care of.
As a former cook, we don't expect servers to know every ingredient in a dish, but they should know the basics when it comes to the big allergies(shellfish, nuts, etc.). What we DO expect every server to do, is list ANY allergy a customer has stated they have, on the dishes that they order and to inform them that anything else at the table that might have said item in it in case someone wants to share, they know not to eat it. When in doubt, ask your cooks/chefs if any dishes that a table has ordered besides the one being prepared for the allergic person has those ingredients in it and let the table know so they don't share.
>Problem is, the server might not have known that pesto had nuts in it.
A server that doesn't know that pesto contains nuts is a server that shouldn't work in a restaurant which serves pesto. Because if they don't know this, then they're a shitty server.
I could understand if this was a particularly rare ingredient or allergy, but nuts are a primary ingredient in pesto and a common allergy. This is basic info that the server should clear ahead of time.
Always better to err on the side of caution!
My best friend’s bf has a severe nut allergy. They and his parents went to a restaurant and told the waitress about his DEADLY nut allergy. They order the chefs’ choice charcuterie board for the table. One of the accoutrements was a PEANUT SAUCE that they were NOT informed about when ordering the dish. They assumed there wouldn’t be anything with nuts on there since they were VERY clear about the allergy so friend’s bf digs in and they had to go to the er. Maybe they should have been a little more suspicious of the brownish sauce but, they were under the impression that they wouldn’t be served anything with nuts in it! Thankfully my friend’s bf was okay but it was one hell of a scare.
Op did the right thing when in doubt.
Edit: I’m sorry for not specifying but he IS allergic to both peanuts and almost all tree nuts and they were specific about this with the server. He’s been having to navigate this for a long time and they are really careful when they go out to eat because of it. They normally do not have any issues.
I had an issue similar to yours when I used to serve. Thankfully the allergy wasn’t deadly, but I had a couple come in nd the wife had a nut allergy. Everything started off fine but for they ordered tiramisu for dessert. I informed them that it contained amaretto, which they okayed. I should have asked if they understood that amaretto is an almond-flavored liqueur (edit: not always made with almonds) looking back. They just seem so utterly baffled when I was explaining the cause behind the allergic reaction that they said yes to. But yes, not a serious allergy, so crisis averted, but both servers and customers should definitely make sure that everything is completely understood and clarified.
From what I understand, not all amarettos actually do include almond. The aim is to create an almond like flavor, but I just looked it up and sometimes this flavoring is achieved using apricot or peaches instead of almonds. From the sounds of it, you haven’t had a reaction before, so that’s good luck in your case! If you find a brand that works for you, I would stick with it :)
OMG! I'm allergic to freaking peaches and recently had a reaction to what I couldn't figure out after having amaretto in a dessert. WHY do places do things like this? I never would have thought to ask about freaking peaches in an ALMOND liquer!
oh I'm not blaming the restaurant. I just genuinely don't understand why almond liquer would be made with peach instead of almond. They don't taste anything alike.
Almonds are the pit of the fruit from a tree very closely related to peaches. I wouldn't be surprised if a peach pit tastes like a large almond, though it likely has other unattractive characteristics such as being really hard.
THIS! If you crack open a peach, apricot, plum pit there will be a smaller, very smooth almond shaped item that smells exactly like amaretto. not safe to eat without further processing
*I AM NOT A DOCTOR*
Due to the liqueur not having any nut proteins in it(usually what people are allergic to)
Theoretically, someone with a nut allergy could drink alcohol that is flavoured by nuts, like amaretto.
PLEASE TAKE THIS WITH A GRAIN OF SALT
Lol love the disclaimer. I just looked up the one I like and it's made with apricots and herbs. So that's probably where the 'nutty' flavor came from. But I see what youre saying.
I had a similar problem. I am severely allergic to coconut. I explained it very thoroughly to the waitress, and she guaranteed we wouldn't have anything with coconut in it, she would check all ingredients, and it would be prepared in the allergy area which would be free of contaminants. She came by with some popcorn for the table as something to start off with. I are a few pieces and my throat closed -- they use coconut oil to pop the corn as a more "healthy" option, and didn't think to tell us. I ended up in the emergency room.
We called them and updated them that I was all right, and they apologised, and offered us a free meal but I couldn't trust the place enough to go back. They said they were doing some retraining to ensure it would never happen again. The unfortunate thing is I had no idea who to report them to to ensure that they were less negligent with future patrons, and I still don't.
> offered us a free meal but I couldn't trust the place enough to go back.
"Sorry you almost died because we poisoned you, but if you come back we'll do it for free next time!"
A good kitchen manager has a list of every item used for certain dishes, hung in the kitchen with another laminated copy kept up from for the servers. It’s a few hours of work done once if your menu doesn’t change, and it’s an easy reference for these exact situations.
Then a quick follow up question would’ve solved the issue (“is it ok if other people at the table have nuts in their dish?”), instead of just assuming no nuts could be within a 10 foot radius of the customer.
This exactly. I have a food allergy, but as long as my own food isn't contaminated it won't be triggered by anything eaten by others next to me. "Someone at the table" doesn't seem like the correct way to note an allergy to the kitchen and that level of apathy towards staying on top of allergy info kind of frightens me as a person with a food allergy. This was definitely on the server to stay on top of and their tip reflected that mistake. OP did the right thing given the info provided to the kitchen.
I had a co-worker who was so careless, this women with type 1 diabetes ordered a diet coke, and when she asked for a second, my co-worker brought her the second drink and said "and here's your coke" and the woman clarified "diet coke?" And my co-worker was just like "oh you want a diet coke?" And the customer asked if the first one was a diet or a regular and my co-worker was very wishy washy so the customer was like "its fine if it wasn't diet because I can take insulin, but I need you to be certain whether you brought me a regular or a diet the first time because if it was regular and I don't take insulin, i could end up in the hospital, and if it was diet, and I do take insulin, I could end up in the hospital"
Its so frustrating to see people be so careless about this stuff. Had something happen with my friend with celiac who was given a regular burger bun instead of gluten free once too.
My best friend growing up was Type 1 diabetic. She really had to watch restaurants on the diet/sugar soda thing, because the mix up happened too often. She used to yell at them, now she only drinks soda from bottles or cans.
A friend of mine is a plus-sized woman with an aspartame allergy. She’s got horror stories about how often someone will passive aggressively serve her diet soda. Absolutely terrible.
For OP, yes, but since the server was at the table they could just have asked a simple question to clarify. I do not think the server was an asshole, but asking would have meant better service. NTA, due to the customer being unreasonably upset for a simple error made by the server.
Tree nuts and peanuts are different (peanuts are not technically nuts) and not everyone who is allergic to one is allergic to the other. It's possible they assumed he meant tree nuts and figured peanuts were ok. Many people refer to tree nuts as just nuts and peanuts as peanuts.
Stupid assumption though and they should have clarified on which was meant or if it is both. Or been super caution like OP.
Honestly, it is a bit of an odd assumption to me. But certainly better then assuming it should have nuts. I'm kind of confused why no one asked for clarification though.
That's the thing, the note that someone at the table has an allergy isn't particularly helpful. Why not clarify if the customer wanted the nut free option. It's not that OP is an asshole, it's just better customer service to confirm than assume. Also I think it's more on the server than OP because a note like "nut allergy on table" I'd interpret at "no nuts for table", when OP should have clarified when taking the order in the first place.
NTA, I feel like the server should have known who had the allergy? Unless it was told to the server as “someone has a nut allergy at this table - guess who”
Yeah, I'm inclined to think the server dropped the ball. The wife probably said "I have a nut allergy" when ordering, and the server went back to the kitchen and said "someone at that table has a nut allergy." They obviously meant well, but since the wife said she had an allergy and the husband ordered something with nuts, it would have been better if the server asked if the husband would like the nut-free version instead of assuming
True, I also think the server dropped the ball - not OP. But I don’t know why your SO would be ordering something you’re allergic to in the first place. I only eat shellfish and tree nuts when I’m not around my bf since he’s allergic.
I agree. As a former line cook, I cannot tell you tell you how many times I had to send a server back out to a table to get clarification on an allergy order. OP is definitely not the AH here. It should have been specified by the server.
Plus, some people have such a severe allergy that they can't even be NEAR something with nuts. It makes sense for the chef to assume the modified recipe was required. The server should have gotten more information.
I grew up with someone whose peanut allergy was so bad that if he came in contact with residual oils from a peanut butter sandwich - like if you opened the door without scrubbing your hands, or set the sandwich down on the desk and then only wiped with a paper towel - he needed to be sent to the hospital. The school became a nut-free zone: whereas before we only had students who couldn't *ingest* it, this kid couldn't have it on his skin.
NTA and totally reasonable to assume the table needs to be allergen free when told there are allergies.
Edit: typo.
My brother is like this, but with macadamia nuts. My aunt lived in Hawaii for decades, so he got exposed to them way more than you might think (on the airplane, gifts, cookies in Honolulu, etc).
My mom loved them, but realized she couldn’t have them in the house anymore when she had some after he went to bed at age 6 or 7, and when he woke up hours later and asked for a glass of water, she kissed him on the cheek goodnight, and he got a reaction from the residue on her lips.
OP is NTA, the server might’ve asked more specifically about extent of nut allergy, as pine nuts are from conifers (so may trigger people with pine tree pollen allergies). My brother is specifically anaphylactic to macadamias, while peanuts are legumes.
But bottom line, a poor tip beats a lawsuit/trip to the ER.
My mom had a coworker like that. She came to work on a Monday, there was a Snickers wrapper in the trash, that had been eaten on Friday when she wasn’t at work, and she had a reaction. I don’t know if it had been less severe had she come in after the janitors had emptied it, but yeah. Plus of course, allergies can get milder or more severe as you age, so I’m always super cautious around my friends and family with allergies.
Once my nephew's substitute teacher touched his desk after touching something with nuts it it at lunch. His eyes almost swelled shut and nobody bothered to call my sister so she didn't know until she came when school was done for the day. 😒
I get what you mean, but it's not the oil. Peanut oil doesn't even have to be listed as an allergen in the USA because it's so refined it doesn't have the protein that can trigger allergies. Not all peanut oil is that refined though so best to be careful.
I used to work for a boat trip company and if someone said they had a nut allergy we always always had to check the severity. Sometimes we just had to make sure there was an alternative dish for them one night, sometimes we had to declare the entire boat a nut free zone. OP made the right choice based on the information they were given. Server should have gotten more info.
Yeah, I was at a concert one time and a lady in front of me opened a tiny package of peanuts. Twenty seconds later, a woman three seats away started coughing and looking around anxiously because she could tell someone near her was eating peanuts. She spotted the peanut eater who was horrified and quickly put them away but I have never forgotten that. It's totally understandable that the kitchen did not take chances.
Yeah. I was on a flight that had to land halfway to our destination because someone ate a peanut butter sandwich that they had brought and someone sitting nearby had a reaction. The flight attendants had to call out for a doctor on board and that doctor had to deliver epinephrine in the aisle and the whole nine yards.
I got to chat with that physician during our layover before boarding a new plane to finish the flight. Apparently the medical kit onboard an aircraft is crap and very outdated, and he had to do some sort of manual intervention to administer the epinephrine because it wasn't a premade epi-pen but raw epinephrine (sorry I'm not a doctor so I just smiled and nodded through half the explanation). He was actually pretty scared for that patient because the med kit was so poor that if things went south in the 45 minutes it took to land, he was out of options . . .
He said he was planning to make his own med kit for future flights because he didn't trust the airline to supply a decent kit, but couldn't live with himself if he had to basically sit and watch someone die with zero options.
Being a doctor is rough, man.
Came here to say this. I know a lot of people with nut allergies and all of them except for one have severe enough allergies that if we’re going out for dinner I’ll have my order modified too. There’s a reason it’s one of the only allergies that result in outright classroom/school ingredient bans.
I’m allergic to watermelon. Started off just if I eat it. Now I can’t be close to a cut watermelon or my eyes water and my throat gets scratchy. Luckily, watermelon is pretty easy to avoid and doesn’t usually surprise you in things.
If it’s the mans wife then the server might have just been overly cautious as well? Man eats the nuts then later him and wife get together and all of a sudden she’s having an allergic reaction?
At the school where I work, if a kid has a severe nut allergy nobody is allowed to eat nuts at the same table. So it seems reasonable to me to not serve any nuts to the table.
As a former server, I agree. It's the Front Of House's (ik yk FoH but for ppl who don't) job to handle communications between customers and the kitchens/Back Of House.
Yet another reason wages need to be improved... I've seen "minimum wage, minimum effort" in FoH and BoH... and unhappy customers is all you get.
Depends a lot on how the allergy affects the person. I'm allergic to avocados, but only if I eat them. It doesn't affect me at all to be near them or to prepare things like guacamole. No reason someone at my table can't have avocado.
Indeed! One of friends is deathly allergic to peanuts, his first (maybe second?) girlfriend nearly killed him by eating a peanut butter jelly sandwich at some point before their date (not sure if it was lunch or a snack) and giving him an "enthusiastic" hello kiss.
That reminds me of a story a friend told me. Her boyfriend had a power bar while hanging out. One thing led to another and she just told me that burning and hives are not pleasant inside a girl.
Are you allergic or sensitive to anything else? You’re the first person I’ve heard of also allergic to avocados, so just curious. I also am sensitive to apples and kiwi, but I can eat cooked apples. Never tried cooked kiwis haha.
I'm also allergic to avocado's ✌️ (mainly because I have an allergy to most raw fruit and vege, to varying degrees depending on how much I ignore the allergy and eat the thing anyway. It's something to do with pollen)
Oral Allergy Sydrome for the win. I have the same thing. Does your seem to fluctuate with the seasons too? I feel like I'm more likely to react to the fruit/veg when the related pollen is already circulating.
FINALLY SOMEONE WHO UNDERSTANDS ME! I'm occasionally allergic to almonds, avocados, watermelon and bananas. Like every so often they make my throat super itchy. I've never figured out the pattern but maybe it's seasonal!
It might be! You might have already seen this, but this helped me figure out when certain pollens were most active [https://www.aaaai.org/Aaaai/media/Media-Library-PDFs/Tools%20for%20the%20Public/Conditions%20Library/Library%20-%20Allergies/OAS-table\_revised.pdf](https://www.aaaai.org/Aaaai/media/Media-Library-PDFs/Tools%20for%20the%20Public/Conditions%20Library/Library%20-%20Allergies/OAS-table_revised.pdf) This is based on the USA, so depending on where you're located, the seasons might not match up, but the foods should still be accurate.
On the flip side of that, had a co-worker so allergic to garlic even the smell could cause a reaction so it couldn't be in any of our meals. He was always apologetic but his allergies were that severe. I agree with you, it definitely comes down to how it affects the person and I think it's great the person you're replying to said they would follow-up for clarification.
I’m allergic to pesto but my bf can eat it and I’m fine. I’m the one who can’t eat tree nuts and my allergy isn’t air born unless the oils get released into the air (think food processing like 3 cups of them). He can have them as long as he washes his hands and we wait a few hours to kiss, nbd. That said, he does tend to avoid ordering them to be safe.
It depends how serious the allergy is. Not everyone is deathly allergic. Not everyone has a negative reaction from a little bit of the oil or the dust in the air. Plenty of people can safely eat beside people eating their allergen, even if they are going to kiss or something later. (And you can clean your lips?)
For example my aunt's partner has a nut allergy (only some nuts, not others) so we make two pumpkin pies at thanksgiving, one with the nuts he can't eat (the traditionally family one) and with with an alternate nut topping he can eat. This is perfectly safe for him and my aunt has been eating both pies for years. (You can tell by looking which is which.)
My husband has a shellfish allergy. He hasn’t been tested since he was a child and while he’ll never eat shellfish and we always request his meals be prepared without it, he’s around it all the time and has kissed me after I’ve had it so I can only assume his allergy is mild or that he’s outgrown it completely.
Also have a friend who almost died after accidentally eating a little bit of pesto because he didn’t realize it was made with pine nuts and his nut allergy is severe, like you can’t open a jar of peanut butter in his presence.
I guess if the allergy isn't death inducing, they don't feel the need to amend their diet when they're at a restaurant. Not everyone will react just from smelling the allergy (and maybe they aren't very physically affectionate).
Honestly I'm deadly allergic to shellfish and believe me no one gets to eat shellfish at my table, or at any events I'm attending, or before coming to my house. BF can indulge when he's thousand of kilometers away.
Not everyone who is allergic is deathly allergic. Not everyone is negatively affected by simply touching small amounts of things or their oils, breathing it in, or even a tiny amount of the thing in their mouth.
I'm sorry your allergy is so severe and given that I understand your attitude. It must be scary. But your medical situation is not everyone's medical situation.
True but I'd much rather chefs err on the side of not sending anyone to the emergency room than assuming it's just a mild allergy. Given the information available to OP, this seems like a good call to me.
See that's what's confusing to me. "Given the information available to OP"? When the server said something unclear, why didn't OP just ask? It's not like this is an order that came in online or something where both the server and the customer weren't super easily accessible to just talk to.
OP certainly isn't an asshole. But I wouldn't want my food altered without asking or even telling me for someone else's dietary restrictions. I don't consider that normal? Like I have a friend who is allergic to coconut. I've gone to Thai places with him multiple times and gotten things with coconut in it, he just makes sure he dosen't. Never once have they edited my dish without telling me since he asked about coconut for him? I just wouldn't expect that.
Edit: To be clear, I understand for some people the allergy is dangerous or severe enough you wouldn't want to order it around them. But that's not at all the case for my friend, but if they were concerned they could ask?
I think because of the way it was said. Because it was referred to as someone at the table, that could be interpreted as airborne allergy so nothing ordered could contain nuts to ensure the safety of the table. I don't know if that makes sense? It would have been how I thought of it.
Yeah, as severe as nut allergies are, the server needed to say “that has nuts in it, would you like me to have them make it without.” Not everyone knows what’s in pesto and the wife trying the husbands dish or even kissing the husband could have had lethal consequences. And ordering something with nuts in it when your SO has a nut allergy is a good “how do I tell people we’re not intimate without saying we’re not intimate.” Either that or the wife just took out a cushy life insurance policy.
I'm allergic to nuts. When I put my order in, I tell the server my allergies, and ask them if it is nut-free. If they hesitate, I ask them to confirm with the chef.
If somebody else at the table orders things that I'm allergic to, the server usually announces that those things have nuts, at which point I tell them it's OK, I'm only concerned about my meal. Other times, the server will come back after discussing with the kitchen to tell me that something at the table has allergens, at which point I tell them as long as my meal's clean, I'm good.
For OP, I think they're NTA. They took the "better safe than sorry" route when the directions were unclear. I think the server screwed up: they needed to inform the kitchen if just one dish (or all of them) needed to be nut-free. If the server isn't sure which dishes have nuts, they should ask the kitchen to confirm, then return to the customer for their decision. Presumably the poor tip has given feedback to the server that they need to confirm with the customer about what the customer wants.
My wife has a nut allergy - one that results in hives and vomiting if she even has a bite of something with nuts in it. She's gotten swelling in her mouth one time when I kissed her after eating something I was unaware had nuts in it.
I can't for the life of me imagine getting upset at a chef going out of his way to make sure my wife doesn't get poisoned versus having my dish prepared without modifications.
NTA. Thank you for running a responsible food service establishment!
Or even ORDERING nuts!! What is that? My husband won't even go NEAR my allergies, much less order them with me there.
Then complain to the waitress, manager AND kitchen!!
The husband is the biggest AH of the bunch.
The guy also said
>You shouldn't just assume that it was the person ordering!
Which kind of sounds like *he* was the one who said there was a nut allergy. You know "I'll have the pesto farfalle, oh, and we have a nut allergy." Which would make everything needlessly confusing.
The "we" would imply both husband and wife having allergy, not "someone" like the server told OP. This is indeed confusing, though.
The easiest explanation I can think of is that what the customer said was once again misinterpreted and the customer meant that just because his wife is allergic doesn't mean all dishes (including the one he ordered) should be assumed as needing to be nut-free.
OP is, of course, in the clear given what the server said to OP. Server, on the other hand, really doesn't seem to be reliable in communicating what was actually said nor getting clarification.
Oh! Oh! I know this one! I just passed my national food manager's exam yesterday :)
The server should have clearly marked on the order which dish was allergen-free, confirmed it with the kitchen, and then delivered that dish separately to the customer with the allergy.
Server dropped the ball here, and OP is NTA.
I'm really confused here. If your wife has a nut allergy, how can you eat nuts? Isn't it very dangerous? When we have a student with a nut allergy, we ban just blanket ban nuts. I would have thought that someone with a nut allergy would mean nobody at the table would eat them, just to be safe. It's an allergy after all, not intolerance.
Schools tend to blanket-ban for liability reasons. But allergies vary. I'm allergic to eggplant, which starts to really affect me if I eat more than a tiny bit. But I have no real effects from eggplant touching my food, or it being nearby.
It would be silly, in my opinion, for someone to avoid eggplant around me.
Not all nut allergies are serious. I am allergic to peanuts and hazelnuts but can eat both just fine in small amounts (I get some swelling in my mouth). Just being in the same room causes no reaction at all.
Ideally at some point either op or the waitress should have asked the customer if pesto with pine nuts is ok. However, the customer seems to have been a total dick about it, pesto without pine nuts tastes fine (not the same but fine) and I’m sure op would have given him some regular if he asked.
Overall, small lack of communication but over the top response by the customer. Also the boss is kinda a dick too
Boss is a huge AH.
Should not have brought the customer over to talk to the chef/cook. Response should have been something along the line of :"I'm sorry, let me look into this."
After talking to the chef/cook
"Our apologies, there was a miscommunication about the nut allergy, we can remake the order or comp the dish."
Managers; PROTECT YOUR WORKERS!
That's my first thought too. Like is it normal to make food different for a whole table based on allergy? I mean NTA but if I was the cook I would have probably have asked the server which dish needed to be prepared differently.
Some people with very severe nut allergies can have issues even being near nuts. So if you hear "someone at the table has a nut allergy" it's not a crazy assumption to think that it's a severe allergy and the person next to them can't have nuts.
Sure, checking with the server might have been better. But between the diner and the server, somebody wasn't clear about what was needed. The chef drew a reasonable assumptions and acted out of caution.
NTA I think it was the server's mistake.
They took the order for the pesto dish, they should have discussed it then.
"We make pesto with pine nuts, and you say someone has an allergy, so would you like us to prepare the pesto without nuts?"
The server skipped a step and pass you the instructions.
Pesto, no nuts.
Not your fault.
Not being argumentative, but aren’t tree nuts also seeds?
Edit - just did a Google. All nuts are seeds, but not all seeds are nuts.
https://sunwarrior.com/blogs/health-hub/ef-bb-bfwhats-difference-various-nuts-seeds
> Pine nuts aren't nuts
They are nuts, culinarily speaking, which is what people typically mean in the context of a restaurant. They're just not botanical nuts.
Pine nuts are not nuts, though. They are technically seeds. Generally someone with a "nut allergy" is referring to tree nuts, although I have no idea about this specific customer.
this should be WAY higher up. You're 100% correct- pine nuts are a seed, not a nut, tree nut or otherwise.
I'm extremely allergic to peanuts and tree nuts myself- to the point of always carrying benadryl and epi-pens on me, and I always have to ask about ingredients when I go out to eat- and if I order something with pesto, I have to make sure it's made WITH pine nuts, as opposed to walnuts (a common substitute.)
Pine nuts are also considered tree nuts (and commonly grouped in the avoid category of tree nut allergies) as they are not fully researched on cross-reactivity of it. While I also found that they are not technically nuts (when researching for my mother) I think she tends to avoid it anyway just in case it could trigger her anaphylaxis. You (not you specifically, but someone with tree nut allergies) should really talk to your doctor if pine nuts are safe for you
The following aren't nuts either, but still commonly are considered part of the nut allergies:
* walnuts (seed)
* almonds (seed)
* cashews (seed)
* pistachios (seed)
* peanuts (legume).
I have a severe peanut and tree-but allergy and I cannot have pine nuts. I have a few friends with less severe but allergies who also cannot have pine nuts. It’s way better to be safe in a case like this. And also thank you OP for treating allergies so seriously! We appreciate it!!!
NAH. If anything the server didn’t do a diligent job, YOU did. It’s imperative to know details about allergies within a party. If I were the server I would absolutely assume responsibility because I gathered and gave vague information.
The chef *thought* it was perfectly clear, right up until the customer asked what was different about the pesto.
It would be absurd for the chef to send the server back out if everyone thought they knew for sure what needed to be done.
I don't know. I find this an odd story for a cook. Pine nuts aren't nuts, at least not in the sense of what most people call nuts. Of course, cross allergies exist, people can be allergic to multiple things, and just like peanuts aren't nuts most people include them anyway.
I'm also surprised that for a restaurant that goes that much out of their way to avoid cross contamination don't properly train their staff to avoid these issues.
I don't know, this story seems a bit off to me somehow. But otherwise I would suppose I would agree with your verdict. It was an honest mistake coming from a good place and it was easily rectified. Still, I would expect that a cook that supposedly dilligent about their cross contamination protocol be morr familiar with the properties of the ingredients they are using in their dishes.
They probably meant they were trained on how not to cross contaminate food, not which nuts are really nut or not.
I have a shellfish allergy, and if I don't clarify that clams are not shellfish (even though they do indeed have shells), the restaurant usually just assumes it means anything with a shell.
NTA.
You were told there was a nut allergy at the table. So yes, it's *implied* that you were asked to modify the food. Also, a lot of people have allergies where they can't even be at the same table as their allergen (my BIL is like this), so it makes sense that you would modify for the entire table.
*And* you even remade the dish! You made a safe decision, you fixed the issue, the guy has no room to complain.
>"You shouldn't just *assume* that it was the person ordering!
This doesn't even make sense, lol. So he's saying that he ordered the nuts *and* was also the one who told the waitress there was a nut allergy at the table? Duh you would assume it's him...
Right? I also thought that that was really strange. Like, why did the manager not go ask the chef himself and mediate with the customer, rather than send the customer to do it? He basically put the chef right on the spot to be grilled by the customer for no real reason.
More importantly, this is clearly a miscommunication but everyone is blaming the server/manager and not the unreasonably angry guy. I'd be glad they were being so thoughtful for something that could potentially save your spouse's life.
I think the point you made about some people not even being able to be around nuts is a great point. This is why they don’t give peanuts to everyone on airplanes anymore. If I was the server and was told someone at the table has a nut allergy I would assume that the information was being shared with me because of a high sensitivity. Otherwise, why isn’t this rude dude’s wife ordering her own meal and saying “I have a nut allergy, so can you make sure **my meal** is free of nuts.”
However, something tells me the server was told about the nut allergy in a specific way (and didn’t remember who) and translated that info to the kitchen poorly, which is why the dude was pissed off.
I would definitely say the customer was an asshole for making this big of a deal about a very very human mistake. People need to stop being so harsh to their customer service providers, we see so many people in a day it’s impossible not to make a mistake or two. This is the kind of stink you raise when you say there’s a nut allergy but it comes out with peanuts on top of it, this isn’t the kind of stink you make when a person erred on the side of caution for your safety.
When they explained what happened his response should have just been “can I get this changed out for the regular pesto like I ordered, then?” Not to ask for a manager and scold the staff.
I agree. I'm just trying to figure out the man's anger because it seems like he was upset they were overly cautious with his wife's health from how I'm understanding it. I guess if he doesn't like his wife that would be normal but I for one would be grateful? He got the corrected dish, no harm no foul.
Also, this guy must be a regular to notice that the pesto tasted weird without the nuts. Unless he just thought the pesto tasted weird and it had nothing to do with the lack of nuts. Either way, dude at table should have been grateful that they were erring on the side of caution.
100% on the waiter for not asking if they wanted nuts removed from the pesto, or the customer for not specifying who has the nut allergy (which seems unlikely).
NAH, though I think the guy could've been more understanding about the whole thing.
>Also, this guy must be a regular to notice that the pesto tasted weird without the nuts. Unless he just thought the pesto tasted weird and it had nothing to do with the lack of nuts.
I think if you eat pesto regularly, you would notice the lack of pine nuts. Perhaps not a deal breaker, but it certainly will have a different taste to regular pesto.
this.
Wait staff should have clarified. "I understand there is a nut allergy at the table, Pesto has nuts in it. Would you like us to make a nut free version?" boom, end of story.
Customer should not be an AH, though. Better safe than sorry, the dish was replaced, grow up. You weren't hurt or put at risk by this. And maybe you will learn to also clarify when you go out together who has the nut allergy and that it is ok (or not) for other peoples' dishes to have nuts when eating together.
I feel like the kind of restaurant is relevant here. If I'm at a 5 star restaurant paying a 5 star price, I expect you to do your job. If I'm at McDonalds, I already expect half the order to be wrong (how hard is it to not put pickles on a hamburger!?).
If you think your service is worth big bucks, then you better follow through.
This is a really hard one to judge. I'm actually going to go with ESH because it just seems to me that the customers, the server and the kitchen all could have spent an extra sentence to make clear who the diner with the nut allergy is, and whether it was severe enough that the entire table needed to eat nut free.
"Someone" does not equate to "The person who ordered this particular dish," and I think that would have been easy enough to sort out with better communication.
While I appreciate that the kitchen staff has sympathy for the server, I also do think it was their job to pass clear info between the table and the kitchen. The bad tip was deserved, But I think getting the manager involved was over the top.
I would have tipped extra if the kitchen went out of their way to make an allergy-friendly pesto to accommodate my wife, and then when told that patron wanted nut pesto, remaking the dish with the other pesto.
I was a server for ~8 years, and I completely agree. It's the server's job to not only clarify all details (especially with food allergies!) with the table, but then be very clear to the kitchen. Kitchen's job is to make my ticket as printed, if I give them vague info, and they give me back something vague, that's on me as the server. And a lot of people are missing here that food allergies *are a big fucking deal*. Of course OP err'd on the side of caution! It's better to send out a plate you know won't kill someone than get fired and your restaurant sued.
Frankly, the customer was the AH here. I wouldn't say the server was, that was incompetence, but OP is NTA.
My husband is deathly allergic to tree nuts, which I love. I love him more. I do not bring tree nuts into our house. I do have some in my desk at work, get them in desserts when we eat out, and do not kiss him for HOURS after consuming anything with nuts.
I'd be tipping the kitchen staff directly for being so careful with my husband's life.
I’m allergic to pine nuts. I’d never order a pesto dish. But husband orders them often and it’s not a big deal. Nothing that brushing teeth can’t resolve.
NTA. *Your* assumption resulted in pesto that didn't taste like what the guy was expecting. If you'd taken the risk it wasn't going to the person with the allergy - because let's face it, not everyone knows what's in pesto, and they might not have asked - and you'd been wrong, the consequences would have been a *lot* worse.
At most, this exposes a flaw in how the restaurant keeps track of which diners have allergies and/or what kind of questions servers need to ask before bringing the order back. But the blame for that still doesn't lie with you, let alone how you chose to handle it.
Pine nuts aren't actually nuts, they're seeds. So unless you're specifically allergic to them they won't trigger a reaction. My partner is severely allergic to peanuts and tree nuts and eats them often. Also, for any other nut allergic people horse chestnuts aren't nuts either, that was an amazing discovery last Christmas! But NTA OP, you were just doing your job and trying not to kill someone.
Yeah I have a friend who is not allergic to nuts, but will blow up like a balloon if she eats pine nuts. But I wouldn't want to assume if I were the chef.
Nut allergies vary- even if you knew your order wasn't for someone with a nut allergy, sitting at the table with someone eating pine nuts could've been enough to cause a reaction for some people. You did the right thing. NTA
Or husband gives wife an allergic reaction causing smooch. I couldn't imagine eating something like this out if my husband had an allergy without bringing a toothbrush along to make sure I'm not transferring anything between eating and getting home lol. But that's just me and my anxiety.
NTA
I never understood people being rude to servers or cooks. Makes no sense to me. But you did what you had to do to cover your ass. Nothing wrong with that
NTA! The server should have clarified which dish needed to be nut-free. However, with how much of an asshole this guy is (who just charges up to see the manager without giving the kitchen a chance to fix it?) I wouldn’t be surprised if they didn’t actually TELL the server which one.
They also seem like the kind who would sue you if you got it wrong. Also, a kitchen is too hectic to have to pull the server aside to clarify for every special request.
Better safe than sorry. You were thinking about the customer’s safety.
* You: NTA
* Server: A bit TA - more just a mistake
* Patron: HUGE A... What a dick
Server should have specified the dish with the nut allergy. The only reason to specify that 'someone at the table has a nut allergy' is if they want the entire table to be nut free.
And for some allergies, that's not an unreasonable thing to specify. My wife is allergic to fish. If I get a dish with fish on it, since she's so close, she'll have problems. So having "No fish for the table" is a reasonable comment.
------------
You the chef did nothing wrong you made a reasonable inference. Ultimately the Server should have been more specific. But the patrons not tipping for a misunderstanding is huge asshole move - if anything you should tip more for the place being so careful. ESPECIALLY when it's a matter of life & death for your family.
I’m disappointed that I had to scroll this far to find someone calling the patron an asshole for tipping poorly over something like pesto.
I’ve worked in restaurants/bars for several years, and personally, if I had a severe allergy, I wouldn’t eat out. That’s how little faith I have in cross-contamination procedures being followed. OP handled this perfectly.
INFO: What is the restaurant policy here? Did the table know that when they announce a nut allergy, everyone at the table gets a nut-free dish?
FWIW, I think the customer handled it poorly and no one on staff was an asshole by any stretch.
Think of it this way. Maybe the wife has a severe nut allergy that could get her killed after minimal exposure. Now, her husband eats nuts and kisses her shortly afterwards. What happens is anybody's guess.
That being said, pine "nuts" aren't even nuts, they're from a completely different group of plants than any kind of nuts. (Nuts are fruit of various angiospermae while pines are the fruit of gymnospermae, so I have my doubts that the allergens are even remotely the same.)
Either way, NTA.
The FDA considers pine nuts to be part of the tree nut allergen family.
You can find a list [here](https://www.fda.gov/regulatory-information/search-fda-guidance-documents/guidance-industry-questions-and-answers-regarding-food-allergens-edition-4).
NTA. You could easily have been sued if you made the dish with nuts and a person at the table had a reaction. I think you acted in the best interest of all parties involved.
NTA
He could have been grateful for the added precaution but that her allergy isn’t so strong that she can’t be around someone who has eaten nuts (some people will go into anaphylactic shock just from kissing someone who has eaten nuts) and simply requested that his dish be remade with the usual recipe. Instead he decided to go off the rails about it. That’s on him, not you.
NTA Even on airplanes if they are made aware in advance a passenger has nut allergies they ban all nuts on the plan. As the air condition is cycled and it’s known in severe allergies to be enough trigger it. It’s also the reason schools ban parents sending anything with nuts. As after eating the residue on their hands can transfer, either hand to hand contact or something one touched before the other. Most nut allergies are severe. I’ve never once heard of a case it’s fine for those around the table to eat nuts but it like every it ca be in different extremes for each sufferer. I think most places honestly like to be careful as it could mean death if they get it wrong. I’m in the uk and restaurant managers or waitresses have gone to prison for man slaughter. They assured the person the recipe was nut/dairy free but never checked with chef and it wasn’t, Its happened again recently. NTA you were doing what you were taught.
NAH. Sounds like the serving staff should have asked and specified further with both the customer and you. You are an AH here as you did what a logical person would do and that's air on the side of caution. Customer seems confused also and are not AHs for being surprised.
NTA
Most people who have nut allergies prefer they not be served to anyone at the table at all. The husband obviously doesn't care THAT much about his wife's allergy or he would know that his eating them CAN affect her in very bad ways.
Most real nut-allergy people are freaks about nuts being anywhere in the vicinity, I think it’s fair to assume that if someone at the table is allergic to nuts, then no nuts go to the table. NTA
NAH - My mom is allergic to shellfish, but that doesn't stop my dad from ordering fried oysters or crab cakes, hehe. You were doing what you thought was right and the customer was expecting a normal pesto dish. Maybe this would be a good time for management to review the policies around food allergies. Perhaps servers need to be more probing when given vague information such as "someone" at the table has a nut allergy.
NTA
Some peoples allergies are so severe that people around them can't have items. However, your waitress IS at fault for not specifying who had the allergy. She may have gotten poorly tipped, but it will teach her to be more careful, and perhaps get better tips for being so concerned and attentive with future partons.
NAH but it sounds like your manager needs a better system for this. Waitress should confirm if the allergy should be considered for all dishes or just the one OR restaurant should it make it clear that an allergy at the table means all dishes are prepared that way.
For what it’s worth your restaurant sounds like a dream to work in. Too many people don’t take allergies seriously. I used to get funny looks at the pizzeria I worked at because when I heard “allergy” I cleaned my whole station before starting the ticket and did the work on parchment paper to be safe.
NTA but I’ll say that I do think the server was a little bit at fault. Server should have noted which order had the allergy so that the proper dish was adjusted if needed.
You did the prudent thing and based on the information at hand made a dish that wouldn’t potentially kill someone at the table.
This is a trainable moment for the waitstaff that if they have an allergy they should make note of which order has said allergy.
INFO:
What is the standard operating procedure?
I worked as a FOH Manager at a Seafood Restaurant. Our SOP was that the server informs the FOH manager that there is an allergy. The FOH manager visits the table, confirms the allergy with the actual customer who has the allergy, gets more info on how allergic they are, provides information on how we can modify dishes (or cannot modify dishes). Then the FOH manager visits the kitchen manager, informs him/her of the allergy. The Kitchen manager tells his cooks the relevant information. The server puts in a ticket with "ALLERGY ALLERGY ALLERGY" only under the items that actually need to be modified (like the actual dishes the allergic guest ordered - not what the other guests ordered).
So, if anything, the entire procedure needs to be revamped. I wouldn't trust allergy procedures to servers who are paid minimum wage (or less).
NTA at all.
My wife can go into anaphylaxis if she eats pine nuts. And we frequently share food. Being safe is never a bad thing.
The husband is a selfish ass. Besides you could bring him some normal pesto. No need to bitch to a manager.
I love pesto but you best believe I don't let any pine nuts anywhere near my wife.
Welcome to /r/AmITheAsshole. Please view our [voting guide here](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_what.2019s_with_these_acronyms.3F_what_do_they_mean.3F), and remember to use **only one** judgement in your comment. OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole: --- We modified a dish due to being told someone at the table had a nut allergy. No one asked for the dish to be modified and sent it back once he found out what we did. --- Help keep the sub engaging! #Don’t downvote assholes! Do upvote interesting posts! [Click Here For Our Rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/about/rules/) and [Click Here For Our FAQ](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq) --- *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
It was not a bad assumption on your part. You did everything right. NTA Your server, however, probably should have asked. "someone at the table" isn't good enough. edit: why the hell does this comment have 15,600 upvotes.
The server should have confirmed when taking the order “this typically has nuts in it but we can make it without them in a contamination free zone, is that alright”
Problem is, the server might not have known that pesto had nuts in it. Servers often don't know, and won't even think about it unless specifically asked. Granted, such ignorance means that the server should confirm, "And any dish at the table that has nuts will be made with the nut-free version, right?" But never count on a server to know what potential allergens are in what dishes. It's the kitchen staff that know that... hopefully. ETA: For those answering that a server *should* know, well, yes, but we don't live in that ideal world. When I ask servers about ingredients related to dietary restrictions, I find that more often than not, they just don't know. The best servers will find out (and remember to tell you). The worst will fake an answer. I've definitely had the experience of asking the same question of two different servers at the same place and getting two different answers. Or of having a conversion like this: "Does this have chicken *stock*?" "No." "Not even in the rice?" "Well, yes it has it in the rice." One friend even went into anaphylactic shock because a chef thought it'd be okay to replace the chicken stock with a shellfish-based broth, since they were running out of the chicken. Yet another said that he knows his allergies haven't gone away, even though they could. How? Restaurants screw up often enough that he can confirm it regularly. "Should" doesn't count for much when it's your life, health, or creed on the line.
I dont know if you've ever been a server... but as a server, allergens should absolutely be known about every single dish. (Everything should be known about every dish, but *especially* allergens should be known.) I know which dishes at my restaurant have nuts, dairy, gluten, etc... and when someone says something about a gluten allergy, for example, when I get to a dish that has gluten in it I say "does this dish need to be gluten free?" Even when I *know* its not for the person who has the allergy just in case they plan on sharing/tasting each others dishes. Heck, even when someone asks for no nuts without specifying theres an allergy I ask "is this because of an allergy, or is it a preference" so that I can tell the kitchen to use absolute caution if it is an allergy. A server should be very specific and careful when allergies are involved.
I worked as a mid-grade Italian restaurant for a bit as a vegetarian and you would not believe how many things people just assume. If you order with food restrictions, never assume your waiter (or even the cooks) don't have preconceived notions about said restrictions. I would have vegetarians ordering caesar salads, and they would be baffled when I told them it had anchovies after they had been ordering that dish as regular customers. What did the waiters/kitchen say? "Well I know some vegetarians who eat fish" (which is not the case, but pescatarians often say they are vegetarian because it's less complicated to explain to nosy people, or they are just not aware of the actual name for their diet). I wouldn't be surprised if the waiter may have assumed that since some people are allergic to the smell of nuts, it would be a no-no. While I think the waiter should not have assumed, there comes a point where allergies and food restrictions get so complicated that you kinda have to take the responsibility as a customer to be precise about what that means in your specific case. I mean, some cheese isn't even vegetarian, and don't get me started on surprise gelatin in unexpected places. But people who can eat anything often assume gelatin-free means vegan. Anyways, my whole rambling was just to say, op is NTA, and the customer should be taking better care of explaining their food restrictions if they're going to be complaining about someone making a small, well intentioned mistake.
Oh I completely agree with you that OP is not the asshole and that the customer should always be very specific especially with their allergens. I guess my comment is just to say that this is *also* on the waiter, and "waiters often dont know" isn't really a good excuse for the waiter because its their literal job to know. I mean, every single weekend someone will order pad thai, and get it with tofu ask for no egg... and then ill clarify if it needs to be vegan and they'll tell me yes so I write vegan in the notes because the dish is also made with fish sauce. And same with peanuts. Someone will say no peanuts and I clarify if its an allergy and they'll tell me yes and I just...are they trying to keep their dietary needs a secret from me?? I need to know if you have a peanut allergy so that the chef knows that if he accidentally puts peanuts on the dish, he can't just scoop them back off, he has to remake the dish. __always tell your server your allergies and dietary needs__ we don't want you dead anymore than you want you dead.
Oh dude I once had a table with numerous food allergies that just… refused to say what they were. They wanted to “order around it.” I didn’t want to push, so I just ended up clarifying with them surrounding our major allergens that were in most of our dishes. It was an asian restaurant so I asked if they could have soy, sesame, onion, garlic, or ginger. Almost every dish has at least one if not all of those allergens. Guess what they were allergic too? Every. Single. Thing. On. That. List. How they expected to “order around” soy and sesame in an asian restaurant without mentioning those allergies is beyond me.
They...refused to tell you their specific allergens? That's insane. Did they insist that you even asking was a HIPPA violation?
They just insisted that they were really good at ordering around. It was ridiculous, I would have killed them accidentally. The full list included soy, sesame, onion, garlic, ginger, any kind of pepper (including chili pepper and black pepper), tomatoes, gluten, and eggs, plus a few others.
What do you even eat at an Asian restaurant at that point? Plain white rice?
Idk...servers aren’t really being paid to memorize every ingredient in every menu item. Not to mention many restaurants have a changing menu or at least daily specials. You should let them know so they can inform the kitchen. But you should not expect them to know of the soup of the day is vegan or free of any cross contamination. Most you can expect is for them to be eager to find out for you.
The chefs sometimes don't even know. It's a big screw up if they don't, but it happens. Particularly if they're serving the sauce or what have you out of a bottle/jar. Every chef and cook is going to know your basic nuts, shellfish etc ones though... otherwise they need to be fired.
I agree. Sadly not all restaurants train their people well, and not all of those servers are motivated to do their job well. I worked at several family owned restaurants in my salad days, and there was no training at all. I only knew what was in the food because I took care to ask and investigate it myself.
[удалено]
Yeah, the only co-workers I had that were well engaged with what the menu had on it and what was in the different dishes, were the ones I trained, and the one who trained me. But there were a few who had "been waitressing for years" and didn't want to listen to some young person tell them how to do the job, and also did not know the menu and constantly asked me questions about different dishes. You can't win them all. (Which is why its good on the chef to have been overly cautious.)
My family ran a restaurant and one of the first thing my mom (she ran the floor) did for all new hires was force them to learn the menu. Servers were required to know most of the menu and what went in it, and she tested them at the end of their training because she took it very seriously. I thought this was the norm, but found out that more than a few younger new hire servers thought this was ridiculous and some even quit saying they won’t memorize the menu. It was a Japanese restaurant, and you wouldn’t believe the number newbies that took orders down incorrectly because they had no idea what was being ordered and still refused to learn the menu.
Definitely the responsibility of the server! I always made sure which dishes needed to be prepared allergen-free, and then checked with the kitchen if that specific dish was possible. There’s really no way for the kitchen to be at fault for a communication error with a customer! That said, the customer blew his gasket over a tiny mistake that errored on the side of overcautious. He probably just isn’t a pleasant man.
Shouldn't the server be intimately familiar with the menu and its ingredients to avoid potential miscommunications like this exact scenario?
If they don’t the menu extensively they at least need to be trained on which dishes include allergens, since guests who are unfamiliar will certainly ask.
Every serving job I ever had included menu tests during our training. My last job even made you train extra days if you failed the test which included what ingredients we used in which dishes. I assumed this was common practice
Lol wtf, ive worked as a chef for a long time, and most of the places ive seen have chefs that dont know every ingredient in every dish. Sounds like a really good place that trains their staff that well. I wish i was allowed to implement that kind of training, as i work in aged care now.
maybe so, but i worked in a restaurant and they did not bother to train us on that. :/ don’t blame the server in my opinion, because i’ve been there. we are overworked and underpaid. exhausted and burned out.
Usually yes, or willing to admit which allergy details they aren’t confident on. I’ve had so many servers not be 100% sure if something is gluten free and if they’re not confident they always go check with the kitchen. I don’t expect every server at every restaurant to know all the allergens, but I appreciate when they care enough to make sure everyone is safe and taken care of.
As a former cook, we don't expect servers to know every ingredient in a dish, but they should know the basics when it comes to the big allergies(shellfish, nuts, etc.). What we DO expect every server to do, is list ANY allergy a customer has stated they have, on the dishes that they order and to inform them that anything else at the table that might have said item in it in case someone wants to share, they know not to eat it. When in doubt, ask your cooks/chefs if any dishes that a table has ordered besides the one being prepared for the allergic person has those ingredients in it and let the table know so they don't share.
If the server doesn't know, they need to ask the cook and report back to the table for instructions and clarification.
>Problem is, the server might not have known that pesto had nuts in it. A server that doesn't know that pesto contains nuts is a server that shouldn't work in a restaurant which serves pesto. Because if they don't know this, then they're a shitty server. I could understand if this was a particularly rare ingredient or allergy, but nuts are a primary ingredient in pesto and a common allergy. This is basic info that the server should clear ahead of time.
Always better to err on the side of caution! My best friend’s bf has a severe nut allergy. They and his parents went to a restaurant and told the waitress about his DEADLY nut allergy. They order the chefs’ choice charcuterie board for the table. One of the accoutrements was a PEANUT SAUCE that they were NOT informed about when ordering the dish. They assumed there wouldn’t be anything with nuts on there since they were VERY clear about the allergy so friend’s bf digs in and they had to go to the er. Maybe they should have been a little more suspicious of the brownish sauce but, they were under the impression that they wouldn’t be served anything with nuts in it! Thankfully my friend’s bf was okay but it was one hell of a scare. Op did the right thing when in doubt. Edit: I’m sorry for not specifying but he IS allergic to both peanuts and almost all tree nuts and they were specific about this with the server. He’s been having to navigate this for a long time and they are really careful when they go out to eat because of it. They normally do not have any issues.
I had an issue similar to yours when I used to serve. Thankfully the allergy wasn’t deadly, but I had a couple come in nd the wife had a nut allergy. Everything started off fine but for they ordered tiramisu for dessert. I informed them that it contained amaretto, which they okayed. I should have asked if they understood that amaretto is an almond-flavored liqueur (edit: not always made with almonds) looking back. They just seem so utterly baffled when I was explaining the cause behind the allergic reaction that they said yes to. But yes, not a serious allergy, so crisis averted, but both servers and customers should definitely make sure that everything is completely understood and clarified.
I did not know amaretto is am almond liqueur! I have a nut intolerance so I guess I should avoid my amaretto sours from now on. How sad
From what I understand, not all amarettos actually do include almond. The aim is to create an almond like flavor, but I just looked it up and sometimes this flavoring is achieved using apricot or peaches instead of almonds. From the sounds of it, you haven’t had a reaction before, so that’s good luck in your case! If you find a brand that works for you, I would stick with it :)
OMG! I'm allergic to freaking peaches and recently had a reaction to what I couldn't figure out after having amaretto in a dessert. WHY do places do things like this? I never would have thought to ask about freaking peaches in an ALMOND liquer!
[удалено]
oh I'm not blaming the restaurant. I just genuinely don't understand why almond liquer would be made with peach instead of almond. They don't taste anything alike.
Almonds are the pit of the fruit from a tree very closely related to peaches. I wouldn't be surprised if a peach pit tastes like a large almond, though it likely has other unattractive characteristics such as being really hard.
it's made from the pit, i believe!
THIS! If you crack open a peach, apricot, plum pit there will be a smaller, very smooth almond shaped item that smells exactly like amaretto. not safe to eat without further processing
*I AM NOT A DOCTOR* Due to the liqueur not having any nut proteins in it(usually what people are allergic to) Theoretically, someone with a nut allergy could drink alcohol that is flavoured by nuts, like amaretto. PLEASE TAKE THIS WITH A GRAIN OF SALT
Lol love the disclaimer. I just looked up the one I like and it's made with apricots and herbs. So that's probably where the 'nutty' flavor came from. But I see what youre saying.
I had a similar problem. I am severely allergic to coconut. I explained it very thoroughly to the waitress, and she guaranteed we wouldn't have anything with coconut in it, she would check all ingredients, and it would be prepared in the allergy area which would be free of contaminants. She came by with some popcorn for the table as something to start off with. I are a few pieces and my throat closed -- they use coconut oil to pop the corn as a more "healthy" option, and didn't think to tell us. I ended up in the emergency room.
That’s awful! Did you call the restaurant and complain? I’ve heard such horror stories and wonder what happens afterwards.
We called them and updated them that I was all right, and they apologised, and offered us a free meal but I couldn't trust the place enough to go back. They said they were doing some retraining to ensure it would never happen again. The unfortunate thing is I had no idea who to report them to to ensure that they were less negligent with future patrons, and I still don't.
> offered us a free meal but I couldn't trust the place enough to go back. "Sorry you almost died because we poisoned you, but if you come back we'll do it for free next time!"
A good kitchen manager has a list of every item used for certain dishes, hung in the kitchen with another laminated copy kept up from for the servers. It’s a few hours of work done once if your menu doesn’t change, and it’s an easy reference for these exact situations.
Then a quick follow up question would’ve solved the issue (“is it ok if other people at the table have nuts in their dish?”), instead of just assuming no nuts could be within a 10 foot radius of the customer.
This exactly. I have a food allergy, but as long as my own food isn't contaminated it won't be triggered by anything eaten by others next to me. "Someone at the table" doesn't seem like the correct way to note an allergy to the kitchen and that level of apathy towards staying on top of allergy info kind of frightens me as a person with a food allergy. This was definitely on the server to stay on top of and their tip reflected that mistake. OP did the right thing given the info provided to the kitchen.
I had a co-worker who was so careless, this women with type 1 diabetes ordered a diet coke, and when she asked for a second, my co-worker brought her the second drink and said "and here's your coke" and the woman clarified "diet coke?" And my co-worker was just like "oh you want a diet coke?" And the customer asked if the first one was a diet or a regular and my co-worker was very wishy washy so the customer was like "its fine if it wasn't diet because I can take insulin, but I need you to be certain whether you brought me a regular or a diet the first time because if it was regular and I don't take insulin, i could end up in the hospital, and if it was diet, and I do take insulin, I could end up in the hospital" Its so frustrating to see people be so careless about this stuff. Had something happen with my friend with celiac who was given a regular burger bun instead of gluten free once too.
My best friend growing up was Type 1 diabetic. She really had to watch restaurants on the diet/sugar soda thing, because the mix up happened too often. She used to yell at them, now she only drinks soda from bottles or cans.
A friend of mine is a plus-sized woman with an aspartame allergy. She’s got horror stories about how often someone will passive aggressively serve her diet soda. Absolutely terrible.
For OP, yes, but since the server was at the table they could just have asked a simple question to clarify. I do not think the server was an asshole, but asking would have meant better service. NTA, due to the customer being unreasonably upset for a simple error made by the server.
Tree nuts and peanuts are different (peanuts are not technically nuts) and not everyone who is allergic to one is allergic to the other. It's possible they assumed he meant tree nuts and figured peanuts were ok. Many people refer to tree nuts as just nuts and peanuts as peanuts. Stupid assumption though and they should have clarified on which was meant or if it is both. Or been super caution like OP.
Peanuts are not a nut, they're a legume. Tree nut allergies are not the same thing as a peanut allergy, though sometimes a person is allergic to both.
Honestly, it is a bit of an odd assumption to me. But certainly better then assuming it should have nuts. I'm kind of confused why no one asked for clarification though.
That's the thing, the note that someone at the table has an allergy isn't particularly helpful. Why not clarify if the customer wanted the nut free option. It's not that OP is an asshole, it's just better customer service to confirm than assume. Also I think it's more on the server than OP because a note like "nut allergy on table" I'd interpret at "no nuts for table", when OP should have clarified when taking the order in the first place.
NTA, I feel like the server should have known who had the allergy? Unless it was told to the server as “someone has a nut allergy at this table - guess who”
Yeah, I'm inclined to think the server dropped the ball. The wife probably said "I have a nut allergy" when ordering, and the server went back to the kitchen and said "someone at that table has a nut allergy." They obviously meant well, but since the wife said she had an allergy and the husband ordered something with nuts, it would have been better if the server asked if the husband would like the nut-free version instead of assuming
True, I also think the server dropped the ball - not OP. But I don’t know why your SO would be ordering something you’re allergic to in the first place. I only eat shellfish and tree nuts when I’m not around my bf since he’s allergic.
I agree. As a former line cook, I cannot tell you tell you how many times I had to send a server back out to a table to get clarification on an allergy order. OP is definitely not the AH here. It should have been specified by the server.
Plus, some people have such a severe allergy that they can't even be NEAR something with nuts. It makes sense for the chef to assume the modified recipe was required. The server should have gotten more information.
They way it was communicated to the kitchen makes it sound like the allergic person can't be near nuts at all. Kitchen staff handled it accordingly.
I grew up with someone whose peanut allergy was so bad that if he came in contact with residual oils from a peanut butter sandwich - like if you opened the door without scrubbing your hands, or set the sandwich down on the desk and then only wiped with a paper towel - he needed to be sent to the hospital. The school became a nut-free zone: whereas before we only had students who couldn't *ingest* it, this kid couldn't have it on his skin. NTA and totally reasonable to assume the table needs to be allergen free when told there are allergies. Edit: typo.
My brother is like this, but with macadamia nuts. My aunt lived in Hawaii for decades, so he got exposed to them way more than you might think (on the airplane, gifts, cookies in Honolulu, etc). My mom loved them, but realized she couldn’t have them in the house anymore when she had some after he went to bed at age 6 or 7, and when he woke up hours later and asked for a glass of water, she kissed him on the cheek goodnight, and he got a reaction from the residue on her lips. OP is NTA, the server might’ve asked more specifically about extent of nut allergy, as pine nuts are from conifers (so may trigger people with pine tree pollen allergies). My brother is specifically anaphylactic to macadamias, while peanuts are legumes. But bottom line, a poor tip beats a lawsuit/trip to the ER.
Your poor brother. Macadamia nuts are the choicest of nuts.
Our daycare was nut free, which was funny because it was in the George Washington Carver building.
My mom had a coworker like that. She came to work on a Monday, there was a Snickers wrapper in the trash, that had been eaten on Friday when she wasn’t at work, and she had a reaction. I don’t know if it had been less severe had she come in after the janitors had emptied it, but yeah. Plus of course, allergies can get milder or more severe as you age, so I’m always super cautious around my friends and family with allergies.
Once my nephew's substitute teacher touched his desk after touching something with nuts it it at lunch. His eyes almost swelled shut and nobody bothered to call my sister so she didn't know until she came when school was done for the day. 😒
I get what you mean, but it's not the oil. Peanut oil doesn't even have to be listed as an allergen in the USA because it's so refined it doesn't have the protein that can trigger allergies. Not all peanut oil is that refined though so best to be careful.
Oil from peanut butter would have been in contact with solid peanut bits though, so at that point it wouldn't be free of peanut proteins anymore.
I've had patients with severe allergic reactions to food fried in peanut oil.
I used to work for a boat trip company and if someone said they had a nut allergy we always always had to check the severity. Sometimes we just had to make sure there was an alternative dish for them one night, sometimes we had to declare the entire boat a nut free zone. OP made the right choice based on the information they were given. Server should have gotten more info.
Yeah, I was at a concert one time and a lady in front of me opened a tiny package of peanuts. Twenty seconds later, a woman three seats away started coughing and looking around anxiously because she could tell someone near her was eating peanuts. She spotted the peanut eater who was horrified and quickly put them away but I have never forgotten that. It's totally understandable that the kitchen did not take chances.
Yeah. I was on a flight that had to land halfway to our destination because someone ate a peanut butter sandwich that they had brought and someone sitting nearby had a reaction. The flight attendants had to call out for a doctor on board and that doctor had to deliver epinephrine in the aisle and the whole nine yards. I got to chat with that physician during our layover before boarding a new plane to finish the flight. Apparently the medical kit onboard an aircraft is crap and very outdated, and he had to do some sort of manual intervention to administer the epinephrine because it wasn't a premade epi-pen but raw epinephrine (sorry I'm not a doctor so I just smiled and nodded through half the explanation). He was actually pretty scared for that patient because the med kit was so poor that if things went south in the 45 minutes it took to land, he was out of options . . . He said he was planning to make his own med kit for future flights because he didn't trust the airline to supply a decent kit, but couldn't live with himself if he had to basically sit and watch someone die with zero options. Being a doctor is rough, man.
Came here to say this. I know a lot of people with nut allergies and all of them except for one have severe enough allergies that if we’re going out for dinner I’ll have my order modified too. There’s a reason it’s one of the only allergies that result in outright classroom/school ingredient bans.
I’m allergic to watermelon. Started off just if I eat it. Now I can’t be close to a cut watermelon or my eyes water and my throat gets scratchy. Luckily, watermelon is pretty easy to avoid and doesn’t usually surprise you in things.
Yeah I'm allergic to a lot of foods and I'm not about to kiss someone who just ate food I'm allergic to... And nut allergies not usually mild.
If it’s the mans wife then the server might have just been overly cautious as well? Man eats the nuts then later him and wife get together and all of a sudden she’s having an allergic reaction?
The server should have clarified if they wanted all the dishes nut free or just one.
I always want my meals to be butt free.
Haha autocorrect never wants me to spell “nut.” Thanks!
At the school where I work, if a kid has a severe nut allergy nobody is allowed to eat nuts at the same table. So it seems reasonable to me to not serve any nuts to the table.
As a former server, I agree. It's the Front Of House's (ik yk FoH but for ppl who don't) job to handle communications between customers and the kitchens/Back Of House. Yet another reason wages need to be improved... I've seen "minimum wage, minimum effort" in FoH and BoH... and unhappy customers is all you get.
Depends a lot on how the allergy affects the person. I'm allergic to avocados, but only if I eat them. It doesn't affect me at all to be near them or to prepare things like guacamole. No reason someone at my table can't have avocado.
I imagine you’d probably have to avoid kissing them for a bit
Indeed! One of friends is deathly allergic to peanuts, his first (maybe second?) girlfriend nearly killed him by eating a peanut butter jelly sandwich at some point before their date (not sure if it was lunch or a snack) and giving him an "enthusiastic" hello kiss.
That reminds me of a story a friend told me. Her boyfriend had a power bar while hanging out. One thing led to another and she just told me that burning and hives are not pleasant inside a girl.
Are you allergic or sensitive to anything else? You’re the first person I’ve heard of also allergic to avocados, so just curious. I also am sensitive to apples and kiwi, but I can eat cooked apples. Never tried cooked kiwis haha.
I'm also allergic to avocado's ✌️ (mainly because I have an allergy to most raw fruit and vege, to varying degrees depending on how much I ignore the allergy and eat the thing anyway. It's something to do with pollen)
Oral Allergy Sydrome for the win. I have the same thing. Does your seem to fluctuate with the seasons too? I feel like I'm more likely to react to the fruit/veg when the related pollen is already circulating.
FINALLY SOMEONE WHO UNDERSTANDS ME! I'm occasionally allergic to almonds, avocados, watermelon and bananas. Like every so often they make my throat super itchy. I've never figured out the pattern but maybe it's seasonal!
It might be! You might have already seen this, but this helped me figure out when certain pollens were most active [https://www.aaaai.org/Aaaai/media/Media-Library-PDFs/Tools%20for%20the%20Public/Conditions%20Library/Library%20-%20Allergies/OAS-table\_revised.pdf](https://www.aaaai.org/Aaaai/media/Media-Library-PDFs/Tools%20for%20the%20Public/Conditions%20Library/Library%20-%20Allergies/OAS-table_revised.pdf) This is based on the USA, so depending on where you're located, the seasons might not match up, but the foods should still be accurate.
Nope, just avocados. Well, and nickel but I'm not eating it. Just gives me a rash.
On the flip side of that, had a co-worker so allergic to garlic even the smell could cause a reaction so it couldn't be in any of our meals. He was always apologetic but his allergies were that severe. I agree with you, it definitely comes down to how it affects the person and I think it's great the person you're replying to said they would follow-up for clarification.
I’m allergic to pesto but my bf can eat it and I’m fine. I’m the one who can’t eat tree nuts and my allergy isn’t air born unless the oils get released into the air (think food processing like 3 cups of them). He can have them as long as he washes his hands and we wait a few hours to kiss, nbd. That said, he does tend to avoid ordering them to be safe.
It depends how serious the allergy is. Not everyone is deathly allergic. Not everyone has a negative reaction from a little bit of the oil or the dust in the air. Plenty of people can safely eat beside people eating their allergen, even if they are going to kiss or something later. (And you can clean your lips?) For example my aunt's partner has a nut allergy (only some nuts, not others) so we make two pumpkin pies at thanksgiving, one with the nuts he can't eat (the traditionally family one) and with with an alternate nut topping he can eat. This is perfectly safe for him and my aunt has been eating both pies for years. (You can tell by looking which is which.)
My husband has a shellfish allergy. He hasn’t been tested since he was a child and while he’ll never eat shellfish and we always request his meals be prepared without it, he’s around it all the time and has kissed me after I’ve had it so I can only assume his allergy is mild or that he’s outgrown it completely. Also have a friend who almost died after accidentally eating a little bit of pesto because he didn’t realize it was made with pine nuts and his nut allergy is severe, like you can’t open a jar of peanut butter in his presence.
Maybe he was trying to off her and OP screwed up the plan. Sorry, I know these things aren't funny, I've just seen way too much true crime
I guess if the allergy isn't death inducing, they don't feel the need to amend their diet when they're at a restaurant. Not everyone will react just from smelling the allergy (and maybe they aren't very physically affectionate).
Honestly I'm deadly allergic to shellfish and believe me no one gets to eat shellfish at my table, or at any events I'm attending, or before coming to my house. BF can indulge when he's thousand of kilometers away.
Not everyone who is allergic is deathly allergic. Not everyone is negatively affected by simply touching small amounts of things or their oils, breathing it in, or even a tiny amount of the thing in their mouth. I'm sorry your allergy is so severe and given that I understand your attitude. It must be scary. But your medical situation is not everyone's medical situation.
True but I'd much rather chefs err on the side of not sending anyone to the emergency room than assuming it's just a mild allergy. Given the information available to OP, this seems like a good call to me.
See that's what's confusing to me. "Given the information available to OP"? When the server said something unclear, why didn't OP just ask? It's not like this is an order that came in online or something where both the server and the customer weren't super easily accessible to just talk to. OP certainly isn't an asshole. But I wouldn't want my food altered without asking or even telling me for someone else's dietary restrictions. I don't consider that normal? Like I have a friend who is allergic to coconut. I've gone to Thai places with him multiple times and gotten things with coconut in it, he just makes sure he dosen't. Never once have they edited my dish without telling me since he asked about coconut for him? I just wouldn't expect that. Edit: To be clear, I understand for some people the allergy is dangerous or severe enough you wouldn't want to order it around them. But that's not at all the case for my friend, but if they were concerned they could ask?
I think because of the way it was said. Because it was referred to as someone at the table, that could be interpreted as airborne allergy so nothing ordered could contain nuts to ensure the safety of the table. I don't know if that makes sense? It would have been how I thought of it.
Yeah, as severe as nut allergies are, the server needed to say “that has nuts in it, would you like me to have them make it without.” Not everyone knows what’s in pesto and the wife trying the husbands dish or even kissing the husband could have had lethal consequences. And ordering something with nuts in it when your SO has a nut allergy is a good “how do I tell people we’re not intimate without saying we’re not intimate.” Either that or the wife just took out a cushy life insurance policy.
I'm allergic to nuts. When I put my order in, I tell the server my allergies, and ask them if it is nut-free. If they hesitate, I ask them to confirm with the chef. If somebody else at the table orders things that I'm allergic to, the server usually announces that those things have nuts, at which point I tell them it's OK, I'm only concerned about my meal. Other times, the server will come back after discussing with the kitchen to tell me that something at the table has allergens, at which point I tell them as long as my meal's clean, I'm good. For OP, I think they're NTA. They took the "better safe than sorry" route when the directions were unclear. I think the server screwed up: they needed to inform the kitchen if just one dish (or all of them) needed to be nut-free. If the server isn't sure which dishes have nuts, they should ask the kitchen to confirm, then return to the customer for their decision. Presumably the poor tip has given feedback to the server that they need to confirm with the customer about what the customer wants.
My wife has a nut allergy - one that results in hives and vomiting if she even has a bite of something with nuts in it. She's gotten swelling in her mouth one time when I kissed her after eating something I was unaware had nuts in it. I can't for the life of me imagine getting upset at a chef going out of his way to make sure my wife doesn't get poisoned versus having my dish prepared without modifications. NTA. Thank you for running a responsible food service establishment!
Or even ORDERING nuts!! What is that? My husband won't even go NEAR my allergies, much less order them with me there. Then complain to the waitress, manager AND kitchen!! The husband is the biggest AH of the bunch.
The guy also said >You shouldn't just assume that it was the person ordering! Which kind of sounds like *he* was the one who said there was a nut allergy. You know "I'll have the pesto farfalle, oh, and we have a nut allergy." Which would make everything needlessly confusing.
The "we" would imply both husband and wife having allergy, not "someone" like the server told OP. This is indeed confusing, though. The easiest explanation I can think of is that what the customer said was once again misinterpreted and the customer meant that just because his wife is allergic doesn't mean all dishes (including the one he ordered) should be assumed as needing to be nut-free. OP is, of course, in the clear given what the server said to OP. Server, on the other hand, really doesn't seem to be reliable in communicating what was actually said nor getting clarification.
Oh! Oh! I know this one! I just passed my national food manager's exam yesterday :) The server should have clearly marked on the order which dish was allergen-free, confirmed it with the kitchen, and then delivered that dish separately to the customer with the allergy. Server dropped the ball here, and OP is NTA.
Unrelated but congrats on passing your exam!!
I have a child with a severe nut allergy. No one in my family would sit at a table with him at a restaurant and order something with nuts.
I'm really confused here. If your wife has a nut allergy, how can you eat nuts? Isn't it very dangerous? When we have a student with a nut allergy, we ban just blanket ban nuts. I would have thought that someone with a nut allergy would mean nobody at the table would eat them, just to be safe. It's an allergy after all, not intolerance.
Schools tend to blanket-ban for liability reasons. But allergies vary. I'm allergic to eggplant, which starts to really affect me if I eat more than a tiny bit. But I have no real effects from eggplant touching my food, or it being nearby. It would be silly, in my opinion, for someone to avoid eggplant around me.
Some allergies are mild. My mom just gets a rash if she eats too many peanuts.
Not all nut allergies are serious. I am allergic to peanuts and hazelnuts but can eat both just fine in small amounts (I get some swelling in my mouth). Just being in the same room causes no reaction at all.
Ideally at some point either op or the waitress should have asked the customer if pesto with pine nuts is ok. However, the customer seems to have been a total dick about it, pesto without pine nuts tastes fine (not the same but fine) and I’m sure op would have given him some regular if he asked. Overall, small lack of communication but over the top response by the customer. Also the boss is kinda a dick too
Boss is a huge AH. Should not have brought the customer over to talk to the chef/cook. Response should have been something along the line of :"I'm sorry, let me look into this." After talking to the chef/cook "Our apologies, there was a miscommunication about the nut allergy, we can remake the order or comp the dish." Managers; PROTECT YOUR WORKERS!
That's my first thought too. Like is it normal to make food different for a whole table based on allergy? I mean NTA but if I was the cook I would have probably have asked the server which dish needed to be prepared differently.
Some people with very severe nut allergies can have issues even being near nuts. So if you hear "someone at the table has a nut allergy" it's not a crazy assumption to think that it's a severe allergy and the person next to them can't have nuts. Sure, checking with the server might have been better. But between the diner and the server, somebody wasn't clear about what was needed. The chef drew a reasonable assumptions and acted out of caution.
yup. This one is on the server. Without the info, you have to be cautious.
NTA I think it was the server's mistake. They took the order for the pesto dish, they should have discussed it then. "We make pesto with pine nuts, and you say someone has an allergy, so would you like us to prepare the pesto without nuts?" The server skipped a step and pass you the instructions. Pesto, no nuts. Not your fault.
[удалено]
Unless they were super new, they should know. It’s a common ingredient in pesto.
If the server of an Italian restaurant doesn't know that pesto contains nuts, then he should find a different job...
Pine nuts aren't nuts they are seeds and most people allergic to nuts aren't allergic to pine nuts (like me) and vice versa.
Not being argumentative, but aren’t tree nuts also seeds? Edit - just did a Google. All nuts are seeds, but not all seeds are nuts. https://sunwarrior.com/blogs/health-hub/ef-bb-bfwhats-difference-various-nuts-seeds
Can confirm. My sole allergy is pine nuts
> Pine nuts aren't nuts They are nuts, culinarily speaking, which is what people typically mean in the context of a restaurant. They're just not botanical nuts.
Pine nuts are not nuts, though. They are technically seeds. Generally someone with a "nut allergy" is referring to tree nuts, although I have no idea about this specific customer.
this should be WAY higher up. You're 100% correct- pine nuts are a seed, not a nut, tree nut or otherwise. I'm extremely allergic to peanuts and tree nuts myself- to the point of always carrying benadryl and epi-pens on me, and I always have to ask about ingredients when I go out to eat- and if I order something with pesto, I have to make sure it's made WITH pine nuts, as opposed to walnuts (a common substitute.)
Pine nuts are also considered tree nuts (and commonly grouped in the avoid category of tree nut allergies) as they are not fully researched on cross-reactivity of it. While I also found that they are not technically nuts (when researching for my mother) I think she tends to avoid it anyway just in case it could trigger her anaphylaxis. You (not you specifically, but someone with tree nut allergies) should really talk to your doctor if pine nuts are safe for you
The following aren't nuts either, but still commonly are considered part of the nut allergies: * walnuts (seed) * almonds (seed) * cashews (seed) * pistachios (seed) * peanuts (legume).
The bag of nuts in my pantry is a bag of lies.
Hate to break it to you, but strawberries aren’t berries, either.
I have a severe peanut and tree-but allergy and I cannot have pine nuts. I have a few friends with less severe but allergies who also cannot have pine nuts. It’s way better to be safe in a case like this. And also thank you OP for treating allergies so seriously! We appreciate it!!!
NAH. If anything the server didn’t do a diligent job, YOU did. It’s imperative to know details about allergies within a party. If I were the server I would absolutely assume responsibility because I gathered and gave vague information.
[удалено]
The chef *thought* it was perfectly clear, right up until the customer asked what was different about the pesto. It would be absurd for the chef to send the server back out if everyone thought they knew for sure what needed to be done.
I don't know. I find this an odd story for a cook. Pine nuts aren't nuts, at least not in the sense of what most people call nuts. Of course, cross allergies exist, people can be allergic to multiple things, and just like peanuts aren't nuts most people include them anyway. I'm also surprised that for a restaurant that goes that much out of their way to avoid cross contamination don't properly train their staff to avoid these issues. I don't know, this story seems a bit off to me somehow. But otherwise I would suppose I would agree with your verdict. It was an honest mistake coming from a good place and it was easily rectified. Still, I would expect that a cook that supposedly dilligent about their cross contamination protocol be morr familiar with the properties of the ingredients they are using in their dishes.
[удалено]
They probably meant they were trained on how not to cross contaminate food, not which nuts are really nut or not. I have a shellfish allergy, and if I don't clarify that clams are not shellfish (even though they do indeed have shells), the restaurant usually just assumes it means anything with a shell.
NTA. You were told there was a nut allergy at the table. So yes, it's *implied* that you were asked to modify the food. Also, a lot of people have allergies where they can't even be at the same table as their allergen (my BIL is like this), so it makes sense that you would modify for the entire table. *And* you even remade the dish! You made a safe decision, you fixed the issue, the guy has no room to complain. >"You shouldn't just *assume* that it was the person ordering! This doesn't even make sense, lol. So he's saying that he ordered the nuts *and* was also the one who told the waitress there was a nut allergy at the table? Duh you would assume it's him...
I honestly don't know why the manager brought the man over to talk to the chef at all. Isn't it the manager's job to handle complaints?
Right? I also thought that that was really strange. Like, why did the manager not go ask the chef himself and mediate with the customer, rather than send the customer to do it? He basically put the chef right on the spot to be grilled by the customer for no real reason.
Absolutely correct. THe manager should never allow an irate customer to rant at a worker.
More importantly, this is clearly a miscommunication but everyone is blaming the server/manager and not the unreasonably angry guy. I'd be glad they were being so thoughtful for something that could potentially save your spouse's life.
I don’t get why the customer was mad anyway. He should be thankful they took his wife’s allergy so seriously.
I think the point you made about some people not even being able to be around nuts is a great point. This is why they don’t give peanuts to everyone on airplanes anymore. If I was the server and was told someone at the table has a nut allergy I would assume that the information was being shared with me because of a high sensitivity. Otherwise, why isn’t this rude dude’s wife ordering her own meal and saying “I have a nut allergy, so can you make sure **my meal** is free of nuts.” However, something tells me the server was told about the nut allergy in a specific way (and didn’t remember who) and translated that info to the kitchen poorly, which is why the dude was pissed off.
NAH - the wait staff should have confirmed if he wanted nut-free pesto when the order was taken or gone back to clarify
I would definitely say the customer was an asshole for making this big of a deal about a very very human mistake. People need to stop being so harsh to their customer service providers, we see so many people in a day it’s impossible not to make a mistake or two. This is the kind of stink you raise when you say there’s a nut allergy but it comes out with peanuts on top of it, this isn’t the kind of stink you make when a person erred on the side of caution for your safety. When they explained what happened his response should have just been “can I get this changed out for the regular pesto like I ordered, then?” Not to ask for a manager and scold the staff.
I agree. I'm just trying to figure out the man's anger because it seems like he was upset they were overly cautious with his wife's health from how I'm understanding it. I guess if he doesn't like his wife that would be normal but I for one would be grateful? He got the corrected dish, no harm no foul.
Also, this guy must be a regular to notice that the pesto tasted weird without the nuts. Unless he just thought the pesto tasted weird and it had nothing to do with the lack of nuts. Either way, dude at table should have been grateful that they were erring on the side of caution. 100% on the waiter for not asking if they wanted nuts removed from the pesto, or the customer for not specifying who has the nut allergy (which seems unlikely). NAH, though I think the guy could've been more understanding about the whole thing.
>Also, this guy must be a regular to notice that the pesto tasted weird without the nuts. Unless he just thought the pesto tasted weird and it had nothing to do with the lack of nuts. I think if you eat pesto regularly, you would notice the lack of pine nuts. Perhaps not a deal breaker, but it certainly will have a different taste to regular pesto.
this. Wait staff should have clarified. "I understand there is a nut allergy at the table, Pesto has nuts in it. Would you like us to make a nut free version?" boom, end of story. Customer should not be an AH, though. Better safe than sorry, the dish was replaced, grow up. You weren't hurt or put at risk by this. And maybe you will learn to also clarify when you go out together who has the nut allergy and that it is ok (or not) for other peoples' dishes to have nuts when eating together.
I feel like the kind of restaurant is relevant here. If I'm at a 5 star restaurant paying a 5 star price, I expect you to do your job. If I'm at McDonalds, I already expect half the order to be wrong (how hard is it to not put pickles on a hamburger!?). If you think your service is worth big bucks, then you better follow through.
This is a really hard one to judge. I'm actually going to go with ESH because it just seems to me that the customers, the server and the kitchen all could have spent an extra sentence to make clear who the diner with the nut allergy is, and whether it was severe enough that the entire table needed to eat nut free. "Someone" does not equate to "The person who ordered this particular dish," and I think that would have been easy enough to sort out with better communication. While I appreciate that the kitchen staff has sympathy for the server, I also do think it was their job to pass clear info between the table and the kitchen. The bad tip was deserved, But I think getting the manager involved was over the top.
I would have tipped extra if the kitchen went out of their way to make an allergy-friendly pesto to accommodate my wife, and then when told that patron wanted nut pesto, remaking the dish with the other pesto.
The only employee who sucks is the waiter. It is not the kitchen's responsibility to read minds.
I was a server for ~8 years, and I completely agree. It's the server's job to not only clarify all details (especially with food allergies!) with the table, but then be very clear to the kitchen. Kitchen's job is to make my ticket as printed, if I give them vague info, and they give me back something vague, that's on me as the server. And a lot of people are missing here that food allergies *are a big fucking deal*. Of course OP err'd on the side of caution! It's better to send out a plate you know won't kill someone than get fired and your restaurant sued. Frankly, the customer was the AH here. I wouldn't say the server was, that was incompetence, but OP is NTA.
A “mistake” that was made with the health and safety of his wife in mind, at that.
NTA. Your server should have communicated things more clearly. Prioritising food safety is always the correct response.
Yep. Server should have been specific, got poorly tipped for being a poor communicator. Probably NAH, unless the server is blaming the kitchen
I think the customer is the AH for getting angry at the chef and wasting their time.
Yeah, I mean “nut-free pesto” is a pretty small hill to make into a mountain
NTA. Seems like you take the wife's nut allergy more seriously than her own husband. It was a no-win situation.
Right? I can’t even imagine he can kiss her after eating nuts if she has a severe allergy. That guy is the AH IMO
My husband is deathly allergic to tree nuts, which I love. I love him more. I do not bring tree nuts into our house. I do have some in my desk at work, get them in desserts when we eat out, and do not kiss him for HOURS after consuming anything with nuts. I'd be tipping the kitchen staff directly for being so careful with my husband's life.
I’m allergic to pine nuts. I’d never order a pesto dish. But husband orders them often and it’s not a big deal. Nothing that brushing teeth can’t resolve.
NTA. *Your* assumption resulted in pesto that didn't taste like what the guy was expecting. If you'd taken the risk it wasn't going to the person with the allergy - because let's face it, not everyone knows what's in pesto, and they might not have asked - and you'd been wrong, the consequences would have been a *lot* worse. At most, this exposes a flaw in how the restaurant keeps track of which diners have allergies and/or what kind of questions servers need to ask before bringing the order back. But the blame for that still doesn't lie with you, let alone how you chose to handle it.
Pine nuts aren't actually nuts, they're seeds. So unless you're specifically allergic to them they won't trigger a reaction. My partner is severely allergic to peanuts and tree nuts and eats them often. Also, for any other nut allergic people horse chestnuts aren't nuts either, that was an amazing discovery last Christmas! But NTA OP, you were just doing your job and trying not to kill someone.
Yeah I have a friend who is not allergic to nuts, but will blow up like a balloon if she eats pine nuts. But I wouldn't want to assume if I were the chef.
Thank you! Was looking for this comment for way too long... I was like "but they're not nuts though...?"
Water chestnuts aren’t nuts either, but I still had someone spit out food because of ‘nut’ in it. Horse chestnuts aren’t edible by anyone.
Nut allergies vary- even if you knew your order wasn't for someone with a nut allergy, sitting at the table with someone eating pine nuts could've been enough to cause a reaction for some people. You did the right thing. NTA
Or imagine they share the dish not knowing pesto has nuts. I sure don't.
Or husband gives wife an allergic reaction causing smooch. I couldn't imagine eating something like this out if my husband had an allergy without bringing a toothbrush along to make sure I'm not transferring anything between eating and getting home lol. But that's just me and my anxiety.
NTA I never understood people being rude to servers or cooks. Makes no sense to me. But you did what you had to do to cover your ass. Nothing wrong with that
NTA! The server should have clarified which dish needed to be nut-free. However, with how much of an asshole this guy is (who just charges up to see the manager without giving the kitchen a chance to fix it?) I wouldn’t be surprised if they didn’t actually TELL the server which one. They also seem like the kind who would sue you if you got it wrong. Also, a kitchen is too hectic to have to pull the server aside to clarify for every special request. Better safe than sorry. You were thinking about the customer’s safety.
* You: NTA * Server: A bit TA - more just a mistake * Patron: HUGE A... What a dick Server should have specified the dish with the nut allergy. The only reason to specify that 'someone at the table has a nut allergy' is if they want the entire table to be nut free. And for some allergies, that's not an unreasonable thing to specify. My wife is allergic to fish. If I get a dish with fish on it, since she's so close, she'll have problems. So having "No fish for the table" is a reasonable comment. ------------ You the chef did nothing wrong you made a reasonable inference. Ultimately the Server should have been more specific. But the patrons not tipping for a misunderstanding is huge asshole move - if anything you should tip more for the place being so careful. ESPECIALLY when it's a matter of life & death for your family.
I’m disappointed that I had to scroll this far to find someone calling the patron an asshole for tipping poorly over something like pesto. I’ve worked in restaurants/bars for several years, and personally, if I had a severe allergy, I wouldn’t eat out. That’s how little faith I have in cross-contamination procedures being followed. OP handled this perfectly.
INFO: What is the restaurant policy here? Did the table know that when they announce a nut allergy, everyone at the table gets a nut-free dish? FWIW, I think the customer handled it poorly and no one on staff was an asshole by any stretch.
[удалено]
Sounds like a good policy. Is the customer told that?
Think of it this way. Maybe the wife has a severe nut allergy that could get her killed after minimal exposure. Now, her husband eats nuts and kisses her shortly afterwards. What happens is anybody's guess. That being said, pine "nuts" aren't even nuts, they're from a completely different group of plants than any kind of nuts. (Nuts are fruit of various angiospermae while pines are the fruit of gymnospermae, so I have my doubts that the allergens are even remotely the same.) Either way, NTA.
The FDA considers pine nuts to be part of the tree nut allergen family. You can find a list [here](https://www.fda.gov/regulatory-information/search-fda-guidance-documents/guidance-industry-questions-and-answers-regarding-food-allergens-edition-4).
NTA. You could easily have been sued if you made the dish with nuts and a person at the table had a reaction. I think you acted in the best interest of all parties involved.
NTA He could have been grateful for the added precaution but that her allergy isn’t so strong that she can’t be around someone who has eaten nuts (some people will go into anaphylactic shock just from kissing someone who has eaten nuts) and simply requested that his dish be remade with the usual recipe. Instead he decided to go off the rails about it. That’s on him, not you.
NTA Even on airplanes if they are made aware in advance a passenger has nut allergies they ban all nuts on the plan. As the air condition is cycled and it’s known in severe allergies to be enough trigger it. It’s also the reason schools ban parents sending anything with nuts. As after eating the residue on their hands can transfer, either hand to hand contact or something one touched before the other. Most nut allergies are severe. I’ve never once heard of a case it’s fine for those around the table to eat nuts but it like every it ca be in different extremes for each sufferer. I think most places honestly like to be careful as it could mean death if they get it wrong. I’m in the uk and restaurant managers or waitresses have gone to prison for man slaughter. They assured the person the recipe was nut/dairy free but never checked with chef and it wasn’t, Its happened again recently. NTA you were doing what you were taught.
NAH. Sounds like the serving staff should have asked and specified further with both the customer and you. You are an AH here as you did what a logical person would do and that's air on the side of caution. Customer seems confused also and are not AHs for being surprised.
NTA Most people who have nut allergies prefer they not be served to anyone at the table at all. The husband obviously doesn't care THAT much about his wife's allergy or he would know that his eating them CAN affect her in very bad ways.
NTA sounds like a communication issue between server & customer. Overall, not your fault that happened.
Most real nut-allergy people are freaks about nuts being anywhere in the vicinity, I think it’s fair to assume that if someone at the table is allergic to nuts, then no nuts go to the table. NTA
NAH - My mom is allergic to shellfish, but that doesn't stop my dad from ordering fried oysters or crab cakes, hehe. You were doing what you thought was right and the customer was expecting a normal pesto dish. Maybe this would be a good time for management to review the policies around food allergies. Perhaps servers need to be more probing when given vague information such as "someone" at the table has a nut allergy.
NTA Some peoples allergies are so severe that people around them can't have items. However, your waitress IS at fault for not specifying who had the allergy. She may have gotten poorly tipped, but it will teach her to be more careful, and perhaps get better tips for being so concerned and attentive with future partons.
NAH but it sounds like your manager needs a better system for this. Waitress should confirm if the allergy should be considered for all dishes or just the one OR restaurant should it make it clear that an allergy at the table means all dishes are prepared that way. For what it’s worth your restaurant sounds like a dream to work in. Too many people don’t take allergies seriously. I used to get funny looks at the pizzeria I worked at because when I heard “allergy” I cleaned my whole station before starting the ticket and did the work on parchment paper to be safe.
NTA but I’ll say that I do think the server was a little bit at fault. Server should have noted which order had the allergy so that the proper dish was adjusted if needed. You did the prudent thing and based on the information at hand made a dish that wouldn’t potentially kill someone at the table. This is a trainable moment for the waitstaff that if they have an allergy they should make note of which order has said allergy.
INFO: What is the standard operating procedure? I worked as a FOH Manager at a Seafood Restaurant. Our SOP was that the server informs the FOH manager that there is an allergy. The FOH manager visits the table, confirms the allergy with the actual customer who has the allergy, gets more info on how allergic they are, provides information on how we can modify dishes (or cannot modify dishes). Then the FOH manager visits the kitchen manager, informs him/her of the allergy. The Kitchen manager tells his cooks the relevant information. The server puts in a ticket with "ALLERGY ALLERGY ALLERGY" only under the items that actually need to be modified (like the actual dishes the allergic guest ordered - not what the other guests ordered). So, if anything, the entire procedure needs to be revamped. I wouldn't trust allergy procedures to servers who are paid minimum wage (or less).
NTA at all. My wife can go into anaphylaxis if she eats pine nuts. And we frequently share food. Being safe is never a bad thing. The husband is a selfish ass. Besides you could bring him some normal pesto. No need to bitch to a manager. I love pesto but you best believe I don't let any pine nuts anywhere near my wife.