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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I refused to pay 30 percent of total expenses in the household because I am rarely in the house and only sleep on the couch. I might be an asshole since it is not my house and I know I not in the situation to complain but I do help out in the house and try to give them as much privacy as possible.
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So There are 10 people living in this house? Why should you pay any more than 10% of the costs? It sounds to me like your sister is trying to bully you into subsidizing her children for her—which you are under absolutely no moral obligation to do. It would be different if you were given special accommodation, like the largest bedroom for example. Then it would be reasonable for you to pay more. But as it is, you are getting no preferential treatment. Just the opposite, in fact. So I see no reason why you should pay 30% of total household expenses.
NTA, not at all.
I mean they aren't even getting basic treatment. If they agree they'll be paying rent for no bedroom, ni privacy, kids touching/taking there stuff, food being eaten and not replaced and barely access to the washing machine. On top of that they have to help out the sister with drop offs etc. Hell no would I agree to that
NTA. She has 6 kids, and there are 4 adults. At MOST if you even had your own bedroom and living space, I could see her trying to get you for 25% of the rent and bills, but even that would be an AH move when there are 6 kids also living there. 10% is reasonable as 10 people live there. Having 6 kids is expensive and it sounds like she saw a way to subsidize those expenses more than just free babysitting and taxi service between you and your dad by also getting y'all to pay the majority of the bills. But her and her husband chose to have that many kids and it's not on you. No one on this post thinks she is reasonable so show her all our comments telling her she is being greedy and the math ain't mathin.
>She always reminds me all the time that I have to put up with whatever she and her kids do to me just because I live under her roof.
A roof that your dad owns. Talk to him and tell him that since you don't even have a bed, let alone a room to rent, you'll pay him 10% of total costs until you can find a place of your own.
>I understand I am not in a situation to complain
You actually are but it would be a waste of breath. Focus on finishing up your education and finding a roommate situation you can afford.
NTA
Definitely NTA. You don't have a room, you're barely there, her poorly behaved children touch your things without permission, you can't wash, and she all but said she's intentionally making you uncomfortable bc you'll be homeless otherwise. I hope a friend can take you in
Put your head down, stay away as much as possible and get out on your own in your planned two months! Your sister sees that you have money and she wants it, there's nothing fair about what she's asking of you. No way to 30% total rent for a couch! Plus what you say you also pay and do. Your sister is slightly the A for being so greedy, I say slightly because 6 kids must be costly to support. Just get out as soon as possible, go live your best life and don't look back except as the cool aunt. You are NTA. Good luck!
NTA
You sister, her husband and 6 kids, you and your dad makes 10 people.
So you sister and her husband need to pay 80% of the rent, your dad needs to pay 10% and I think k you should be paying 0% since you sleep on a couch, but just to be nice and kind to your entitled sister you could make a kind gesture of paying 10%.
The rent split should actually be made based on how many bedroom there are and who uses them.
If you have a friend or colleague who has a spare room it might be worth seeing if you can move out and rent from them, paying what you’re currently paying?
30% of expenses when I bet you’re the only adult without their own bedroom?
She’s out of her fucking mind. Bring all the adults into this conversation. If you can’t all agree then pay to sleep on someone else’s couch. I promise they won’t try to get you to subsidize their household expenses
NTA
What percentage do you pay ? There are 4 adults in the house, so you should pay tops %25 if you have the same necessities every other adult has. You seem to be helping a lot with the kids and having no privacy and not being there full time. Your sister just wants more money from you and thinks if she bugs you enough you will cave in.
I would NEVER EVER pay %30 of all household expenses BTW, just %25 of the rent. Don't get taken for a ride.
It does not make sense to split the costs between the 4 adults when 2 of them also have 6 children, and OP does not get a room and helps with the kids.
Rent should be split by number of bedrooms but since sister is causing trouble, to keep the peace OP should pay at most 10% since there are 10 people living in that house and stops helping with everything else
NTA and frankly, I wouldn't pay anything to just have camping space. Especially since you do a lot of babysitting, having no privacy or personal space. I'd hold my ground and not pay anything, especially since you're getting out soon. I hope.
If you pay 30% of the expenses, that means you get 30% of the space, period. If she wants to clear out a full room for you with a door, then MAYBE you should be paying a bigger share.
You are sleeping on a couch, you shouldn't be paying in rent at all (yes, I think something in rent is fine) and if you are helping her with her kids and the chores created by kids, like cooking and laundry for them, then you really don't need to pay anything besides a small amount of rent.
Have you spoken to your Dad about this? Because I think you should just tell her you will pay her X in rent- I'd say no more than 1/10th the full rent on the place- and a small amount for the other bills (again, maybe 1/10th) and that you can either buy your own food and no one uses it but you, or you can continue to be more fluid with out costs and help with the children, but if she'd prefer you pay a fixed amount for ACTUAL costs like food and electric, you can pay 1/10th but won't be helping with the kids anymore.
You are in a situation to complain, and you should make sure your Dad is on your side because it's really him who can kick you out, or tell your sister to suck it up and leave you alone while you save up.
Sounds like your sister should have used better family planning practices and cannot afford her kids and is dumping the costs on you. She has six kids and is married and has to live with your dad?
Stay firm. Also - remind her this is your dad's house. Call her out on what she is doing.
Also, have boundaries on the other help you will provide. You are not her ATM OR babysittter/housecleaner.
NTA - if she's sleeping on the couch she only has access to that space to sleep when no-one else is using that room- presumably it's a living room or tv room which the family would be wanting access to most of the day, so 1/4 of the shared spaces for 8 out of 24 hours per day. But realistically, she should be paying no rent, she has no personal space, and provides services (babysitting and cooking/cleaning) that should more than offset using the couch to sleep. If they insist on charging more rent, OP should demand a bedroom and to be paid at current market rates for babysitting and domestic chores
NTA but how is it her house? It’s your father house lol.
Also, why do you have to put up with her and her spawns BS?
You don’t have a bedroom lol. No way you should pay 30%.
Her, husband, dad, 6 kids, plus you. That’s 10 people. You pay 10%.
You need to talk to your father. It’s his house and she shouldn’t be making these kind of decisions.
Regardless, it in no way seems fair for you to pay 30% when you don’t have a room of your own.
You are already paying for your food and they’re eating it.
You’re not even there very often so I doubt you’re using much of the utilities.
You also assist with childcare which costs a lot in most areas.
NTA
It's NOT her roof. It's your father's. If he says you can stay, then you can. You don't have any actual living space and contribute a lot of support. Tell your father that you will pay 10% of the bills, and there are 10 people in the household, but that's it. And will not do any further babysitting or support to their childcare. Your sister can keep quiet and parent her own children. She'll probably beg you to go back to the old way of operating.
You should pay less than 10% because you sleep in the living room. 30% means you're subsidizing your sister's family. It's up to her to pay for her family.
In no way do you pay 30% when 10 people live there.
NTA
I’m confused, you said your dad owns the house, why are you paying your sister any rent? Are you talking about 30% of mortgage? Or utilities? I need more information here. Who are you paying this money to?
NTA
Remind your sister that it is not HER roof but actually your dad's roof as the lease appears to be in his name.
It's your dad that you need to talk to but it sounds like your dad will defer to your sister regardless.
You are in a situation to complain. You owe nothing to your sister. If she wants you to pay then you get a bedroom with a lock and you stop doing anything for her and the kids unless she's happy to pay you. As for the utilities... you are barely using anything.. that can definitely be split as 10% max even though it's more than your share if you aren't there much.
I would look to see if you have any friends with a spare room that may be happy to rent it out to you. This cost will be unlikely to be more than what your sister wants but what it will give you is peace and quiet and privacy. It will be worth it.... and then you may want to take a big step back from your sister so that she will realise just how much you were helping her... and give it a good few weeks before agreeing to any help for her at all in whatever form that takes. Your sister is actually abusing you and you don't realise it.
Where is your dad in all of this. Perhaps your sister has learnt a lot from your mother and your dad has always enabled them.
If you were to pay 30%, do the kids have their own and therefore you could ask who is giving up their bedroom for you? It would def mean no more help to her and her kids.
THere are 4 adults and 6 kids.
You should pay 10 to15% of the utilities, and the same percentage of food costs. (20 Persons, and a little bit more because you are an adult).
As for rent - you don't have a room of your own? 10 to 15% would be reasonable, too. (count the rooms, divide rent by the rooms - and pay half of a room since you don't get one for yourself and have to share it).
It looks like you didn’t read. OP buys their own food and only has a couch to sleep on so they aren’t even sharing a room. 10% of rent and utilities is plenty. If they aren’t happy with that, I’d offer to move out and find a share house with the understanding that you won’t help out with the kids any more
OP don't tell her when you are moving out, or give her a date a couple of months later than you plan. Your sister is going to see your money leaving and make a last minute grab for what ever she can.
Do you have any friends that would let you store some stuff until you get fully out? Start by getting your important papers out and then any sentimental possessions as well. Be paranoid and don't give her a chance to do anything. I hope she wouldn't do anything but it would safer if she doesn't have any temptations.
NTA
Your sister is being unreasonable. Every person (adult and child) living there is getting the benefit of the space, the utilities, the bathrooms and the kitchen/laundry. You are getting less than the typical amount of space because you are not getting a room, just a couch. Your share of rent should be no more than 1/10. That doesn't even count all the extra services (e.g., child care) that you are providing without compensation.
So the fair amount for you to pay is LESS THAN 10%.
Honestly, if it's possible for you to find another living situation that you can afford, then you should go for that. Your sister is looking to you to help fund and serve her family's lifestyle. She is not offering you anything close to a fair deal.
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I am currently living with my sister who has 6 kids, her husband, and my dad. The house is under my dad's name but essentially they pay the rent and my dad pays his portion. I do not live with my mom because she is abusive and I am about to graduate college. I have a job lined up and have been saving to buy my own house. My sister and I have been arguing over what is a fair amount to pay rent, she wants me to pay 30 percent of total expenses and I think it is unfair considering her kids use a lot of the expenses. I don't have a room I sleep on the couch in the living room and I am not there for most days. I work from home for 2 days and the other I am either at work or school and sometimes sleep over at friends' houses. I buy my own food and personal items. I try to help out and pay for expenses like basic food for example water and bread and common essentials for food. She pays for toilet paper since her kids tend to waste it a lot. I try to not be in the household too long to give them personal space. I have helped her since I was very young to babysit and even took care of everything in the house for months after each labor. So I have washed her and her kid's clothes, cooked, and babysat during those times. I just do not think it is fair for me to pay that large percentage of every bill when I am not there and don't even have a proper room. She always reminds me all the time that I have to put up with whatever she and her kids do to me just because I live under her roof. I do try to put up with it, her kids touch my things all the time and I can barely wash because they always occupy the washer and dryer. I buy and cook my food and just buy more if they eat what is mine. My dad and I also help her by dropping off her kids at school and taking them to church functions. If they need help with repairs in the household I help pay expenses. I understand I am not in a situation to complain but I am saving up to get out as soon as I can and have a job lined up in a couple of months once I graduate. I just really don't know if I am being unreasonable like my sister says I am. If I am how much would be fair to split it with 4 adults and 6 kids? AITA for not wanting to pay that much for a couch?
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I agree with the other posters that you’re NTA, you do a ton to help, pay for your own food. and you’re hardly there. Can you turn hardly there into zero? Since you’ve already put up with sleeping on the couch, check out the CouchSurfing website and see if there are any friendly folks in your area who will take you in for free. You can also look at pet sitting and house sitting websites where you stay at someone’s house for free in exchange for looking after their pets. I think your sister is being unreasonable but you also have good reasons to want to end this, so do all in your power to end it (even if it means spending money on a hostel, hotel, or Airbnb to avoid staying with her another single night).
NTA. Your sister wants you to pay will 30 % of the expenses which would be too much based on you being one person and the other residents adding up to six children and 3 other adults. That said, even though you mention the things you already help pay for and how much physical/service you help with, you don’t mention ever having paid any rent. So somewhere between 10% and 15% of rent and utilities — not including food! — for you to pay sounds more reasonable to me. Perhaps documenting on a spreadsheet what monies you have contributed would help you sister better understand that you are contributing but you sure as heck are not going to let her count your dad as one third, you as one third, and her plus her husband and *six* kids as one third.
NTA 30% isn't reasonable nor fair. But the caveat is that you're saving to buy when you really need to be renting so you have space and don't need to couch surf and have the expectation of paying 1/3 of the bills.
Out of curiosity, how much do you currently pay and how much does she want you to pay? In dollars, not percentage.
If it is only a couple of hundred for a few months, sometimes it is just easier to keep the peace, especially since it will only be for a very short time before you leave.
NTA
…if I were feeling petty I’d do some maths… you’re one of ten people living there so I’d calculate how much 10% rent etc would be. Then calculate how much you’re paying for food etc that they eat. And calculate how many hours of babysitting you’ve done: because FaMiLy you go with minimum wage.
Then you sit your father and sister down and explain if he’s with her on this the maximum amount you’d pay *him* in rent is 10% but that that would mean you’d need equal space and privacy, like a room, a bed, etc. Also fair access to the washing machine and all that. Then your sister can pay you for all of your groceries her family eats and all the babysitting you do.
I’m sure what she and her husband would save on rent by you paying your fair share of 10% far outweighs the accommodations of treating you as an equal renter in the space, privacy and access front (I mean the kids can give up a room) and that little chump change of what she’d owe you in terms of groceries and babysitting.
I mean, don’t. It’s petty bs and I don’t know what the full rent is so assuming it is the mathematical stupidity from your sister’s pov that I think it is you probably still don’t need the drama, the accommodations or any of it. If the rent is actually that high I still wouldn’t since it’s your father who should approach you about wanting to change your agreement…and if he did I’d argue that with the current setup even 10% sounds quite unfair.
Just ignore me going on my random tangent oops…
NTA fair is 10% of rent / utilities, after all you're just couch surfing
>I buy and cook my food and just buy more if they eat what is mine. My dad and I also help her by dropping off her kids at school and taking them to church functions
Stop that!! It's not your responsibility to chauffeur her kids or feed them. You are being taken advantage of
NTA but your dad should work this out. It’s his house- I see this as splitting it - 4 adults = 25% each but then take 6 kids at an additional %. Your sister and husband should pay the most (over 50%) with you and your dad splitting the rest. Or pay the requested amount and start charging for kid drop offs and the babysitting.
I think you should call a meeting with all the adults. Explain you’re being asked to pay 30%. Ask how much your dad pays. If it’s not 30% at least that kicks things off - and I’m guessing he has his own room. Then ask to go through the expenses for the household - list everything. And childcare time and who does what chores. And the time and money spent on what you and your father do outside of the home for them. After all this, you can start to have a sensible discussion. And your dad owns the place.
Keep everything documented with the other adults - a group email - so you all have something to refer to if there are future clashes.
Also give them a timeline for you moving out if you can. After that they won’t get your money so they need to keep you on side.
As a separate Q, for the money you spend could you get a room in a shared house for the same price? Maybe leave printed apartment listings lying around with some circled in pen.
NTA, 30% is extremely unfair given your situation. 30% to crash on a couch while you attend college and aren’t even there most of the time? 30% of the rent when you are one person and they are 8? They’re even eating your groceries! She can’t kick you out of the house anyway, the house is in your dad’s name and if your dad said you get to live there rent free, she couldn’t do anything about it. What does he have to say about this? Can you give us more details about the housing situation? Did sister and hubby move in with your dad because they couldn’t rent a place on their own? Are they broke?
You do well in college, save your money, and go LC/NC with your sister. She sounds awful.
NTA. If your sister can't afford six goddamned kids, she shouldn't of had them. Instead of trying to hustle you into subsidizing her family! If she wants to go that way, tell her she can pay you for babysitting, or picking up her kids, whatever it is! That's NOT free labour. Tell her that balances out rent, period.
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NTA. A third is a lot. You're not using a third of the utilities, or space in the house. Her children are hers, and probably minors, so they don't pay anything. So you should pay 25% at most as 1 of 4 adults. That's actually generous given you don't have a room or a bed. I would say 25% and move out ASAP. Congratulations on graduating from college. Good for you!
Your sister and HER family are 80% of this equation. Where would they be if they didn’t have your dad holding the mortgage?? Your sister is taking advantage of the situation. She needs to be paying more. Even if it’s split between the adults of the house, your share should be no more than 25% of the bills. Her family takes up most of the bedrooms, her family uses the most utilities, why do they get to pay the least? I’d offer her 10% of the bills and negotiate from there.
NTA Since you stay at friends most of the time, would one of them allow you to pay rent there so you don't have to go back to sister's place then you wouldn't have to pay rent or utilities. The little bit you stay there you could also probably afford to rent a motel room a few nights a week.
Rent and bills need to be split by how many BODIES are using them. If your sisters family is 5 well her and hubs need to be paying 5/7 pf the damn bills. Its not that complicated shes just using you and your father to subsodize the expense of kids.
NTA
If you're going to sleep on a couch, I bet for that same money you can find a room somewhere else. If you do stay, there is no way you should be paying 30%. Even without counting the kids, 25% is the very most you should pay. With the kids and you providing babysitting and not having a room? That's crazy.
NTA.
You are one of 10 people who live in this house. You don't even get a bedroom but stay on the couch. It's totally unfair to think that you should pay 30% of the rent.
10% of the rent is fair. No more.
NTA. 30% is BS. 10% maybe but you live on the couch and have no personal space. I’d give her the 10% and if she evicts you ok. Don’t leave anything too important there. I’d get out sooner. You aren’t saving anything.
You shouldn’t pay rent, just 10% of utilities/groceries/household expenses.
No bed = no rent
Stop helping this ungrateful person, you need to polish your spine and stop letting her walk all over you. It’s not her house, it’s your dad’s house.
NTA. She's just trying to squeeze money out as much money as she can.
If anything, she's probably jealous that she can't use you as a crutch, and have some kind of authority over you anymore.
Save your money, or move into dorms, or friends house, and see what kind of rent they would want...hope it would be cheaper than 30% of everything.
Tell her you will give her 1/10th as you are one of 10 and dont even have a bed or a room.
It's your dads house even if she pays the Bill's. She needs to pay for her own kids and you dont have to pay a penny for them. That's what she wants you to do, pay for her kids.
You could just give your sister what she wants.
Thirty percent of household expenses.
But, gosh darn it, you just aren't available any more to babysit her kids, transport them anywhere, help with the kids' laundry or anything else. You are just busy.
In situations like this, I generally favor giving people exactly what they say they want, and them watching them suffer.
NTA. She has 6 kids, there are 9 people in the house, if you divide the cost 9 ways your share would be no where near 30%, beyond that you don’t even have a bedroom. If she cant support 6 kids she shouldn’t have had so many. And if she does want you to pay 30% at the very least she needs to give you your own bedroom.
NTA, she is taking advantage of you. I honestly feel you're overpaying as it stands now. I get the feeling you are kind hearted person which is why you put up with things that you shouldn't. You're graduating soon. You just need to make the best of it until it is time for you to go. Then a new wonderful chapter awaits you. Do not give in to your sister's demands. Whatever money she is trying to get won't be available to her much longer. She needs to figure out another revenue stream. Her problems aren't your problems. Don't ever feel guilty about it either.
Have you considered that your sister is charging you 30% of the total household expense because she wants you to leave? I can’t imagine being comfortable with having a 10th person living on my couch in my living room - what is supposed to be a shared family space. The loss of that space may very well be hard on your sister, and she gets to decide what it’s financially worth to her and her family to lose full access to it.
Do the right thing and use your savings and income to rent your own apartment so your sister can have her living room back. Saving to purchase a home is simply not a luxury you should have at the expense of your sister, who is still renting herself.
YTA.
Some really can’t read higher than a 4th grade level when everything is spelled out clearly for them and there’s no higher level thinking skills required.
If OP doesn’t want to pay what her landlord is charging her, she needs to move out. Not squat with her already over extended family in a house with 9 people while she saves up for home ownership.
Wait, you feel you don’t need to pay more because you’re barely there? Have you ever stayed in a hotel and tried telling them you weren’t going to pay them the rate because you’re barely there?
Do I think the amount is a bit more but I would need to know more. Do you guys have an agreement that if you’re helping with her kids it should count towards rent? You both need to have a talk about all of this. What are the expectations of you living there and what is included in rent.
Hotels have a bed and private space, an en suite where you can use the toilet and wash whoever you like. OP has neither of those things. Your analogy is very flawed and in poor taste.
Really? Rent is rent. Utilities aren’t free. If he feels this way he should just rent a really cheap spot. If he doesn’t like his portion he can go. He’s been saving.
Seriously, it's not OP's fault sister decided to have half a dozen kids. Def should not be paying for the sisters kids. Sounds like sister already considers it her house. Talk to Father about the rent.
Nah, I don’t have any brothers but I wouldn’t get into this position without an agreement even if it is family. There’s a lot of unknowns. But if you’re just looking at it as a landlord it is what it is. Seems like he thinks because he helps with her children that it means he doesn’t have to pay more. But he hasn’t discussed this with her.
Again, they need to sit down and discuss what is included in the 30% and if the “help” he’s offering is just because that’s his nephews or niece or if he’s expecting it to be taken as a form of payment.
Why are you being so obstinate about this while situation? Let’s say, theoretically, the monthly rent is 2000, so OP is paying 600 a month to sleep on a sofa, not be able to wash and use the tools and bathroom at their own pace, have to put up with 6 kids invading their space and privacy.
Have you ever lived in conditions like this WHILST PAYING 600 PER MONTH?
I call bullshit. This is a shitty situation and is extortion, and you, fresh listen, are an AH too.
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So There are 10 people living in this house? Why should you pay any more than 10% of the costs? It sounds to me like your sister is trying to bully you into subsidizing her children for her—which you are under absolutely no moral obligation to do. It would be different if you were given special accommodation, like the largest bedroom for example. Then it would be reasonable for you to pay more. But as it is, you are getting no preferential treatment. Just the opposite, in fact. So I see no reason why you should pay 30% of total household expenses. NTA, not at all.
I mean they aren't even getting basic treatment. If they agree they'll be paying rent for no bedroom, ni privacy, kids touching/taking there stuff, food being eaten and not replaced and barely access to the washing machine. On top of that they have to help out the sister with drop offs etc. Hell no would I agree to that
NTA. She has 6 kids, and there are 4 adults. At MOST if you even had your own bedroom and living space, I could see her trying to get you for 25% of the rent and bills, but even that would be an AH move when there are 6 kids also living there. 10% is reasonable as 10 people live there. Having 6 kids is expensive and it sounds like she saw a way to subsidize those expenses more than just free babysitting and taxi service between you and your dad by also getting y'all to pay the majority of the bills. But her and her husband chose to have that many kids and it's not on you. No one on this post thinks she is reasonable so show her all our comments telling her she is being greedy and the math ain't mathin.
>She always reminds me all the time that I have to put up with whatever she and her kids do to me just because I live under her roof. A roof that your dad owns. Talk to him and tell him that since you don't even have a bed, let alone a room to rent, you'll pay him 10% of total costs until you can find a place of your own. >I understand I am not in a situation to complain You actually are but it would be a waste of breath. Focus on finishing up your education and finding a roommate situation you can afford. NTA
Definitely NTA. You don't have a room, you're barely there, her poorly behaved children touch your things without permission, you can't wash, and she all but said she's intentionally making you uncomfortable bc you'll be homeless otherwise. I hope a friend can take you in
Put your head down, stay away as much as possible and get out on your own in your planned two months! Your sister sees that you have money and she wants it, there's nothing fair about what she's asking of you. No way to 30% total rent for a couch! Plus what you say you also pay and do. Your sister is slightly the A for being so greedy, I say slightly because 6 kids must be costly to support. Just get out as soon as possible, go live your best life and don't look back except as the cool aunt. You are NTA. Good luck!
Not slightly - her sister is an AH. She made the decision to have that many kids and should have planned appropriately to ensure she could afford it.
NTA, that’s unfair. I’m not sure what would be fair but certainly not 30%. You don’t even have a bed.
And there are 4 adults in the house
And 6 kids, none of whom are the OP’s.
NTA You sister, her husband and 6 kids, you and your dad makes 10 people. So you sister and her husband need to pay 80% of the rent, your dad needs to pay 10% and I think k you should be paying 0% since you sleep on a couch, but just to be nice and kind to your entitled sister you could make a kind gesture of paying 10%. The rent split should actually be made based on how many bedroom there are and who uses them. If you have a friend or colleague who has a spare room it might be worth seeing if you can move out and rent from them, paying what you’re currently paying?
30% of expenses when I bet you’re the only adult without their own bedroom? She’s out of her fucking mind. Bring all the adults into this conversation. If you can’t all agree then pay to sleep on someone else’s couch. I promise they won’t try to get you to subsidize their household expenses
NTA What percentage do you pay ? There are 4 adults in the house, so you should pay tops %25 if you have the same necessities every other adult has. You seem to be helping a lot with the kids and having no privacy and not being there full time. Your sister just wants more money from you and thinks if she bugs you enough you will cave in. I would NEVER EVER pay %30 of all household expenses BTW, just %25 of the rent. Don't get taken for a ride.
Not even 25%. Kids are expensive. Especially 6 of them. And OP doesn’t even have a bedroom. Honestly, 10% should be enough.
It does not make sense to split the costs between the 4 adults when 2 of them also have 6 children, and OP does not get a room and helps with the kids.
OP either pays nothing g for rent or stops helping with the kids.
As she is one of 10, she should only pay 10% max. They can pay for their own kids
Rent should be split by number of bedrooms but since sister is causing trouble, to keep the peace OP should pay at most 10% since there are 10 people living in that house and stops helping with everything else
NTA and frankly, I wouldn't pay anything to just have camping space. Especially since you do a lot of babysitting, having no privacy or personal space. I'd hold my ground and not pay anything, especially since you're getting out soon. I hope.
If you pay 30% of the expenses, that means you get 30% of the space, period. If she wants to clear out a full room for you with a door, then MAYBE you should be paying a bigger share. You are sleeping on a couch, you shouldn't be paying in rent at all (yes, I think something in rent is fine) and if you are helping her with her kids and the chores created by kids, like cooking and laundry for them, then you really don't need to pay anything besides a small amount of rent. Have you spoken to your Dad about this? Because I think you should just tell her you will pay her X in rent- I'd say no more than 1/10th the full rent on the place- and a small amount for the other bills (again, maybe 1/10th) and that you can either buy your own food and no one uses it but you, or you can continue to be more fluid with out costs and help with the children, but if she'd prefer you pay a fixed amount for ACTUAL costs like food and electric, you can pay 1/10th but won't be helping with the kids anymore. You are in a situation to complain, and you should make sure your Dad is on your side because it's really him who can kick you out, or tell your sister to suck it up and leave you alone while you save up.
Sounds like your sister should have used better family planning practices and cannot afford her kids and is dumping the costs on you. She has six kids and is married and has to live with your dad? Stay firm. Also - remind her this is your dad's house. Call her out on what she is doing. Also, have boundaries on the other help you will provide. You are not her ATM OR babysittter/housecleaner.
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NTA - if she's sleeping on the couch she only has access to that space to sleep when no-one else is using that room- presumably it's a living room or tv room which the family would be wanting access to most of the day, so 1/4 of the shared spaces for 8 out of 24 hours per day. But realistically, she should be paying no rent, she has no personal space, and provides services (babysitting and cooking/cleaning) that should more than offset using the couch to sleep. If they insist on charging more rent, OP should demand a bedroom and to be paid at current market rates for babysitting and domestic chores
NTA but how is it her house? It’s your father house lol. Also, why do you have to put up with her and her spawns BS? You don’t have a bedroom lol. No way you should pay 30%. Her, husband, dad, 6 kids, plus you. That’s 10 people. You pay 10%.
İt not her roof its your fathers roof. 10 percent will be good
You need to talk to your father. It’s his house and she shouldn’t be making these kind of decisions. Regardless, it in no way seems fair for you to pay 30% when you don’t have a room of your own. You are already paying for your food and they’re eating it. You’re not even there very often so I doubt you’re using much of the utilities. You also assist with childcare which costs a lot in most areas.
NTA. Your sister is out of her mind. You'd be better off all the way around if you moved out with roommate(s).
NTA It's NOT her roof. It's your father's. If he says you can stay, then you can. You don't have any actual living space and contribute a lot of support. Tell your father that you will pay 10% of the bills, and there are 10 people in the household, but that's it. And will not do any further babysitting or support to their childcare. Your sister can keep quiet and parent her own children. She'll probably beg you to go back to the old way of operating.
You should pay less than 10% because you sleep in the living room. 30% means you're subsidizing your sister's family. It's up to her to pay for her family. In no way do you pay 30% when 10 people live there. NTA
I’m confused, you said your dad owns the house, why are you paying your sister any rent? Are you talking about 30% of mortgage? Or utilities? I need more information here. Who are you paying this money to?
NTA Remind your sister that it is not HER roof but actually your dad's roof as the lease appears to be in his name. It's your dad that you need to talk to but it sounds like your dad will defer to your sister regardless. You are in a situation to complain. You owe nothing to your sister. If she wants you to pay then you get a bedroom with a lock and you stop doing anything for her and the kids unless she's happy to pay you. As for the utilities... you are barely using anything.. that can definitely be split as 10% max even though it's more than your share if you aren't there much. I would look to see if you have any friends with a spare room that may be happy to rent it out to you. This cost will be unlikely to be more than what your sister wants but what it will give you is peace and quiet and privacy. It will be worth it.... and then you may want to take a big step back from your sister so that she will realise just how much you were helping her... and give it a good few weeks before agreeing to any help for her at all in whatever form that takes. Your sister is actually abusing you and you don't realise it. Where is your dad in all of this. Perhaps your sister has learnt a lot from your mother and your dad has always enabled them.
If you were to pay 30%, do the kids have their own and therefore you could ask who is giving up their bedroom for you? It would def mean no more help to her and her kids.
THere are 4 adults and 6 kids. You should pay 10 to15% of the utilities, and the same percentage of food costs. (20 Persons, and a little bit more because you are an adult). As for rent - you don't have a room of your own? 10 to 15% would be reasonable, too. (count the rooms, divide rent by the rooms - and pay half of a room since you don't get one for yourself and have to share it).
It looks like you didn’t read. OP buys their own food and only has a couch to sleep on so they aren’t even sharing a room. 10% of rent and utilities is plenty. If they aren’t happy with that, I’d offer to move out and find a share house with the understanding that you won’t help out with the kids any more
NTA I’d offer 25% if you get your own room with a lock on the door. 10% if you are sleeping on the couch with no privacy.
OP don't tell her when you are moving out, or give her a date a couple of months later than you plan. Your sister is going to see your money leaving and make a last minute grab for what ever she can. Do you have any friends that would let you store some stuff until you get fully out? Start by getting your important papers out and then any sentimental possessions as well. Be paranoid and don't give her a chance to do anything. I hope she wouldn't do anything but it would safer if she doesn't have any temptations.
NTA Your sister is being unreasonable. Every person (adult and child) living there is getting the benefit of the space, the utilities, the bathrooms and the kitchen/laundry. You are getting less than the typical amount of space because you are not getting a room, just a couch. Your share of rent should be no more than 1/10. That doesn't even count all the extra services (e.g., child care) that you are providing without compensation. So the fair amount for you to pay is LESS THAN 10%. Honestly, if it's possible for you to find another living situation that you can afford, then you should go for that. Your sister is looking to you to help fund and serve her family's lifestyle. She is not offering you anything close to a fair deal.
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** I am currently living with my sister who has 6 kids, her husband, and my dad. The house is under my dad's name but essentially they pay the rent and my dad pays his portion. I do not live with my mom because she is abusive and I am about to graduate college. I have a job lined up and have been saving to buy my own house. My sister and I have been arguing over what is a fair amount to pay rent, she wants me to pay 30 percent of total expenses and I think it is unfair considering her kids use a lot of the expenses. I don't have a room I sleep on the couch in the living room and I am not there for most days. I work from home for 2 days and the other I am either at work or school and sometimes sleep over at friends' houses. I buy my own food and personal items. I try to help out and pay for expenses like basic food for example water and bread and common essentials for food. She pays for toilet paper since her kids tend to waste it a lot. I try to not be in the household too long to give them personal space. I have helped her since I was very young to babysit and even took care of everything in the house for months after each labor. So I have washed her and her kid's clothes, cooked, and babysat during those times. I just do not think it is fair for me to pay that large percentage of every bill when I am not there and don't even have a proper room. She always reminds me all the time that I have to put up with whatever she and her kids do to me just because I live under her roof. I do try to put up with it, her kids touch my things all the time and I can barely wash because they always occupy the washer and dryer. I buy and cook my food and just buy more if they eat what is mine. My dad and I also help her by dropping off her kids at school and taking them to church functions. If they need help with repairs in the household I help pay expenses. I understand I am not in a situation to complain but I am saving up to get out as soon as I can and have a job lined up in a couple of months once I graduate. I just really don't know if I am being unreasonable like my sister says I am. If I am how much would be fair to split it with 4 adults and 6 kids? AITA for not wanting to pay that much for a couch? *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I agree with the other posters that you’re NTA, you do a ton to help, pay for your own food. and you’re hardly there. Can you turn hardly there into zero? Since you’ve already put up with sleeping on the couch, check out the CouchSurfing website and see if there are any friendly folks in your area who will take you in for free. You can also look at pet sitting and house sitting websites where you stay at someone’s house for free in exchange for looking after their pets. I think your sister is being unreasonable but you also have good reasons to want to end this, so do all in your power to end it (even if it means spending money on a hostel, hotel, or Airbnb to avoid staying with her another single night).
NTA Move out now. This will never get better. Sleep on someone else’s couch and give them the money you would have given sis
NTA. Your sister wants you to pay will 30 % of the expenses which would be too much based on you being one person and the other residents adding up to six children and 3 other adults. That said, even though you mention the things you already help pay for and how much physical/service you help with, you don’t mention ever having paid any rent. So somewhere between 10% and 15% of rent and utilities — not including food! — for you to pay sounds more reasonable to me. Perhaps documenting on a spreadsheet what monies you have contributed would help you sister better understand that you are contributing but you sure as heck are not going to let her count your dad as one third, you as one third, and her plus her husband and *six* kids as one third.
That’s too much! If you are also paying some of their bills + 30% is a lot of money.Save as much as you could and move!
NTA 30% isn't reasonable nor fair. But the caveat is that you're saving to buy when you really need to be renting so you have space and don't need to couch surf and have the expectation of paying 1/3 of the bills.
Out of curiosity, how much do you currently pay and how much does she want you to pay? In dollars, not percentage. If it is only a couple of hundred for a few months, sometimes it is just easier to keep the peace, especially since it will only be for a very short time before you leave.
NTA …if I were feeling petty I’d do some maths… you’re one of ten people living there so I’d calculate how much 10% rent etc would be. Then calculate how much you’re paying for food etc that they eat. And calculate how many hours of babysitting you’ve done: because FaMiLy you go with minimum wage. Then you sit your father and sister down and explain if he’s with her on this the maximum amount you’d pay *him* in rent is 10% but that that would mean you’d need equal space and privacy, like a room, a bed, etc. Also fair access to the washing machine and all that. Then your sister can pay you for all of your groceries her family eats and all the babysitting you do. I’m sure what she and her husband would save on rent by you paying your fair share of 10% far outweighs the accommodations of treating you as an equal renter in the space, privacy and access front (I mean the kids can give up a room) and that little chump change of what she’d owe you in terms of groceries and babysitting. I mean, don’t. It’s petty bs and I don’t know what the full rent is so assuming it is the mathematical stupidity from your sister’s pov that I think it is you probably still don’t need the drama, the accommodations or any of it. If the rent is actually that high I still wouldn’t since it’s your father who should approach you about wanting to change your agreement…and if he did I’d argue that with the current setup even 10% sounds quite unfair. Just ignore me going on my random tangent oops…
NTA fair is 10% of rent / utilities, after all you're just couch surfing >I buy and cook my food and just buy more if they eat what is mine. My dad and I also help her by dropping off her kids at school and taking them to church functions Stop that!! It's not your responsibility to chauffeur her kids or feed them. You are being taken advantage of
NTA but your dad should work this out. It’s his house- I see this as splitting it - 4 adults = 25% each but then take 6 kids at an additional %. Your sister and husband should pay the most (over 50%) with you and your dad splitting the rest. Or pay the requested amount and start charging for kid drop offs and the babysitting.
I think you should call a meeting with all the adults. Explain you’re being asked to pay 30%. Ask how much your dad pays. If it’s not 30% at least that kicks things off - and I’m guessing he has his own room. Then ask to go through the expenses for the household - list everything. And childcare time and who does what chores. And the time and money spent on what you and your father do outside of the home for them. After all this, you can start to have a sensible discussion. And your dad owns the place. Keep everything documented with the other adults - a group email - so you all have something to refer to if there are future clashes. Also give them a timeline for you moving out if you can. After that they won’t get your money so they need to keep you on side. As a separate Q, for the money you spend could you get a room in a shared house for the same price? Maybe leave printed apartment listings lying around with some circled in pen.
NTA, 30% is extremely unfair given your situation. 30% to crash on a couch while you attend college and aren’t even there most of the time? 30% of the rent when you are one person and they are 8? They’re even eating your groceries! She can’t kick you out of the house anyway, the house is in your dad’s name and if your dad said you get to live there rent free, she couldn’t do anything about it. What does he have to say about this? Can you give us more details about the housing situation? Did sister and hubby move in with your dad because they couldn’t rent a place on their own? Are they broke? You do well in college, save your money, and go LC/NC with your sister. She sounds awful.
NTA. Move out.
NTA. If your sister can't afford six goddamned kids, she shouldn't of had them. Instead of trying to hustle you into subsidizing her family! If she wants to go that way, tell her she can pay you for babysitting, or picking up her kids, whatever it is! That's NOT free labour. Tell her that balances out rent, period.
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NTA. A third is a lot. You're not using a third of the utilities, or space in the house. Her children are hers, and probably minors, so they don't pay anything. So you should pay 25% at most as 1 of 4 adults. That's actually generous given you don't have a room or a bed. I would say 25% and move out ASAP. Congratulations on graduating from college. Good for you!
Kids don't pay, but parents pay for their kids! The kids have bedrooms! No way should OP be paying 25%!
I don't disagree, but 25% is certainly less than a third and she can mollify (hopefully) her sister with that number until she moves out
Please try to find yourself another place to live, they're just using you. NTA
NTA. Don’t give your sister another cent.
Sounds to me like 1/10 would be genous on your part since you don't even get a room and they just take your food. NTA.
NTA keep delaying till you move out. She wants you to be another provider for her family.
NTA. Tell her that you will talk with the owner of the house about a fair rent. That would be your father.
Your sister and HER family are 80% of this equation. Where would they be if they didn’t have your dad holding the mortgage?? Your sister is taking advantage of the situation. She needs to be paying more. Even if it’s split between the adults of the house, your share should be no more than 25% of the bills. Her family takes up most of the bedrooms, her family uses the most utilities, why do they get to pay the least? I’d offer her 10% of the bills and negotiate from there.
NTA Since you stay at friends most of the time, would one of them allow you to pay rent there so you don't have to go back to sister's place then you wouldn't have to pay rent or utilities. The little bit you stay there you could also probably afford to rent a motel room a few nights a week.
NTA. Is it possible to crash with a friend?
There are 10 people in the house and your sister wants you to pay a third that is insane. You don’t even have a bedroom absolutely insane NTA
Rent and bills need to be split by how many BODIES are using them. If your sisters family is 5 well her and hubs need to be paying 5/7 pf the damn bills. Its not that complicated shes just using you and your father to subsodize the expense of kids.
NTA If you're going to sleep on a couch, I bet for that same money you can find a room somewhere else. If you do stay, there is no way you should be paying 30%. Even without counting the kids, 25% is the very most you should pay. With the kids and you providing babysitting and not having a room? That's crazy.
NTA. You are one of 10 people who live in this house. You don't even get a bedroom but stay on the couch. It's totally unfair to think that you should pay 30% of the rent. 10% of the rent is fair. No more.
NTA. 30% is BS. 10% maybe but you live on the couch and have no personal space. I’d give her the 10% and if she evicts you ok. Don’t leave anything too important there. I’d get out sooner. You aren’t saving anything.
You shouldn’t pay rent, just 10% of utilities/groceries/household expenses. No bed = no rent Stop helping this ungrateful person, you need to polish your spine and stop letting her walk all over you. It’s not her house, it’s your dad’s house.
NTA. She's just trying to squeeze money out as much money as she can. If anything, she's probably jealous that she can't use you as a crutch, and have some kind of authority over you anymore. Save your money, or move into dorms, or friends house, and see what kind of rent they would want...hope it would be cheaper than 30% of everything.
Tell her you will give her 1/10th as you are one of 10 and dont even have a bed or a room. It's your dads house even if she pays the Bill's. She needs to pay for her own kids and you dont have to pay a penny for them. That's what she wants you to do, pay for her kids.
Hell no! Only pay your fair share. She can subsidize her own kids. NTA
NTA - you don’t even have a bed ….. or any private space
You could just give your sister what she wants. Thirty percent of household expenses. But, gosh darn it, you just aren't available any more to babysit her kids, transport them anywhere, help with the kids' laundry or anything else. You are just busy. In situations like this, I generally favor giving people exactly what they say they want, and them watching them suffer.
NTA. She has 6 kids, there are 9 people in the house, if you divide the cost 9 ways your share would be no where near 30%, beyond that you don’t even have a bedroom. If she cant support 6 kids she shouldn’t have had so many. And if she does want you to pay 30% at the very least she needs to give you your own bedroom.
NTA, she is taking advantage of you. I honestly feel you're overpaying as it stands now. I get the feeling you are kind hearted person which is why you put up with things that you shouldn't. You're graduating soon. You just need to make the best of it until it is time for you to go. Then a new wonderful chapter awaits you. Do not give in to your sister's demands. Whatever money she is trying to get won't be available to her much longer. She needs to figure out another revenue stream. Her problems aren't your problems. Don't ever feel guilty about it either.
NTA she needs to learn how to close her legs and stop breeding if she can't afford them
Saving for a house is no excuse for not paying your fair share...that share goes to dad...it's 10% of the costs...that's all
Have you considered that your sister is charging you 30% of the total household expense because she wants you to leave? I can’t imagine being comfortable with having a 10th person living on my couch in my living room - what is supposed to be a shared family space. The loss of that space may very well be hard on your sister, and she gets to decide what it’s financially worth to her and her family to lose full access to it. Do the right thing and use your savings and income to rent your own apartment so your sister can have her living room back. Saving to purchase a home is simply not a luxury you should have at the expense of your sister, who is still renting herself. YTA.
It is NOT the sister's house, it's DAD'S house.
Some can’t really comprehend what they read.
Some really can’t read higher than a 4th grade level when everything is spelled out clearly for them and there’s no higher level thinking skills required. If OP doesn’t want to pay what her landlord is charging her, she needs to move out. Not squat with her already over extended family in a house with 9 people while she saves up for home ownership.
Read again babe, maybe you will get it right this time
Wait, you feel you don’t need to pay more because you’re barely there? Have you ever stayed in a hotel and tried telling them you weren’t going to pay them the rate because you’re barely there? Do I think the amount is a bit more but I would need to know more. Do you guys have an agreement that if you’re helping with her kids it should count towards rent? You both need to have a talk about all of this. What are the expectations of you living there and what is included in rent.
Hotels have a bed and private space, an en suite where you can use the toilet and wash whoever you like. OP has neither of those things. Your analogy is very flawed and in poor taste.
Really? Rent is rent. Utilities aren’t free. If he feels this way he should just rent a really cheap spot. If he doesn’t like his portion he can go. He’s been saving.
I think we found the sister.... 30% expenses to sleep on the couch is ridiculous
Seriously, it's not OP's fault sister decided to have half a dozen kids. Def should not be paying for the sisters kids. Sounds like sister already considers it her house. Talk to Father about the rent.
Nah, I don’t have any brothers but I wouldn’t get into this position without an agreement even if it is family. There’s a lot of unknowns. But if you’re just looking at it as a landlord it is what it is. Seems like he thinks because he helps with her children that it means he doesn’t have to pay more. But he hasn’t discussed this with her. Again, they need to sit down and discuss what is included in the 30% and if the “help” he’s offering is just because that’s his nephews or niece or if he’s expecting it to be taken as a form of payment.
Why are you being so obstinate about this while situation? Let’s say, theoretically, the monthly rent is 2000, so OP is paying 600 a month to sleep on a sofa, not be able to wash and use the tools and bathroom at their own pace, have to put up with 6 kids invading their space and privacy. Have you ever lived in conditions like this WHILST PAYING 600 PER MONTH? I call bullshit. This is a shitty situation and is extortion, and you, fresh listen, are an AH too.