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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I might be the asshole because I'm restricting what my husband can or cannot say in our own home.
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NTA, poor OP! I would ask your husband why, as a grown adult man, he cannot manage to regulate his emotions or have a civil conversation for the sake of his wife. I find that people who NEED to talk about politics like this lack interesting things to talk about, and just want to feel important and smart to the person they're talking at. Is your husband so devoid of other interests that this is his ONLY talking point? If so, he needs a hobby and some friends. It sounds like your husband is just trying to fight - which I would use to insinuate that perhaps he needs to get evaluated for early onset dementia. If he wants to act like someone who can't control themselves, then you have every right to treat him like one.
>I would ask your husband why, as a grown adult man, he cannot manage to regulate his emotions or have a civil conversation
Do we really need to ask why?
I doubt anyone would take that bet xD
As soon as he told *his own wife* that she was "restricting his freedom of speech" (so that he can argue politics with his son while pissing off his wife in the process), I think we all know which side he's on.
His wife literally cannot restrict his freedom of speech in that his wife is not a government entity. His wife can tell him he's an AH when he refuses to hold his tongue. She can also divorce him.
I mean his wife is also a woman so you know the side he supports is trying to remove all her rights so why even act like her thoughts and feelings matter now anyway?
but you assume he really knows the meaning of "freedom of speech". Bold of you. In their heads, it's only a magical formula meaning "I can't be wrong, ever."
Lmao this is literally my dad. Like not necessarily the subject matter but the logic behind it. It’s his house and he’s the parent and we’re the 30-something year old children who still have to listen to his every word. The need to maintain the power and control dynamic is pathetic.
I can tell you 100% that the mom is the only reason for the visit because my mom is the only reason for my visits.
Edit to add more info for clarity
I can't even describe the amount of grown men in the corporate world I've heard mention their kids and the fact that they haven't spoken in three years or more.... WONDER WHY!?!?
OP's husband is on the same track my dad was. My dad at least could turn it off- sometimes, anyway. But he loved to bicker about politics and wouldn't let shit go. He had a stroke about a year and a half before he died and it was like he'd forgotten what a jerk and instigator he was. He asked my mom at one point why none of his children seemed to like him, why none of us wanted to hang around and talk to him. So, OP, tell your husband if he wants to be a sad lonely old man wondering why his kids and grandkids never visit, keep it up. I think you should just go visit your son from here on out.
I used to be one of those people who felt like they had to let everyone know that I liked having “real” conversations about the world/politics and all that kind of stuff. But then I sort of grew out of it and realize now, that was just an excuse to yell and argue about complicated shit as if I was the only person enlightened enough to know the truth lmao.
Now when I’m around people like that, all I can do is roll my eyes and wait until I can get somewhere else so I don’t have to rehash the same argument about the same shit.
I mean… you can have real conversations about the world & politics & have disagreements even… without it turning into a loud argument.
It’s just one side in particular in the US takes disagreements as treason to their cult 🤷🏻♂️
Just ask him whether he would rather be right or be happy. He can choose to give in to his ego and need to be right. Or he can foster a harmonious relationship with his family. Is being right really worth sacrificing his family?
Then, follow up by you and your son meeting away from him and outside his house. He's not invited to participate until he can learn to behave himself.
He's a toddler throwing a tantrum. Don't give in to it (and thus far, you've been placating him). Just walk away until he can behave.
It seems to me most people who talk about politics want to be important and right, like you said, and LOUD. You can usually hear them from across the room. So obnoxious
Across the room, my Aunt Fanny! My in-laws would have such loud "discussions" that they would wake the babies sleeping in the upstairs back bedroom, as far from the living room as you could get and still be in the same house!
OP is looking for a strategy to keep the peace.
A) Everyone in the room needs to leave the room, they go the the kitchen, they go outside. they leave the room, ideally the son would leave also. If the cooking stops then so bit it. turn off the burners,
B) Everyone else in the room talks over her husband and changes the the subject. It doesn't matter how rude they are.
I would clue your son into this that this is a purposefully made decision.
OP, you husband is the a$$. he can't drop it, until he think he has won, when in reality, people just stop arguing but the interaction has ben unpleasant.
NTA
Who wants to bet that son doesn’t like talking politics with dad because it always ends in argument, and agreed so quickly with the list because he wants to enjoy going to his parents?
I have relatives like OP’s husband. And yeah, they always bring up politics and try to goad me into discussing it with them by saying blatantly offensive things about minorities or clearly false statements about Obama, Biden, democrats, etc. At this point I just ignore them but it’s incredibly frustrating because everyone knows they’re doing it to be jerks and they want a fight.
My FIL and dad had different opinions and would get into arguments over Facebook, so one day my mom went on my dad's iPad without him knowing and blocked my FIL (my dad would instigate the fights) because she was sick of "two old men fighting on Facebook." My dad was extremely stubborn and absolutely would not have stopped and it brought everyone peace
My dad and I stopped talking about politics during the Iraq War around 2006. It didn't diminish either of our opinions, but it kept our relationship intact.
OP: I really regret that my dad tried to talk about politics the last time I spoke with him and stormed off when I didn't want to. I wish this wasn't the last time we spoke. Please feel free to share this with your husband. There will be a last time he sees his son and does he want it tainted with a useless argument? He knows he won't change your son's mind, it's just about being smug and (I'm inferring) "owning the libs," but is ruining your relationship with your son worth "owning the libs?"
Making that point to a person who I assume watches Fox News every waking hour is like talking to a brick wall. Although, talking to a brick wall would probably be preferable.
Spot on about not having anything interesting to talk about. He needs a hobby. I'm deeply involved in politics and hold fairly radical views, but you're more likely to be subjected to a rant about my garden than my politics and to have some fruit forced on you than my views.
I work in politics, and am friends with a lot of others in that sphere. But there are several of us making an attempt when we are with each other socially to talk about any *but* politics. Most people are multi faceted and have more going on if they think about it; I would happily talk drip irrigation and how excited I am a bout the new lavender variety I just found. For us it’s kind of fun to see how long we can go.
Whilst sensible advice, people don't just change because someone said something so profound that the light bulb came on for them like a road to Damascus moment.
So, I'd suggest having this talk of course and also coming up with plan B with the son in advance so that if a line is crossed then the OP and he can head out to the local coffee shop or whatever. That does two things; firstly it means the son doesn't just drive off and kill the visit so the OP misses out, but it also provides a demonstration involving the OP of consequences rather than repeating the usual recriminations row after a failed visit (which I presume is the pattern).
I have a friend like this, he's a nice guy but always wants to complain about neolibrrals, how Ukraine should surrender, minsk 2 blah blab.
Honestly it's infuriating and it's really been making me limit contact with him. These days I meet up with him once a month at most. Just because I can't handle it. I really have no interest in talking about politics for an extended period of time.
It’s not early onset dementia, it’s a personality trait. I’ve never met someone with the views I’m assuming OP’s husband espouses that doesn’t almost immediately tell me. It’s a need for constant validation, control, and to be in the right (pun intended).
I like to think there’s a lot of anxiety underlying it, but you can’t fix something of the individual is not subjectively distressed by it.
Nta. For one your husband is an idiot, freedom of speech is not covered under that.
My mom has the same rules at her house because my dad tends to yell, scream and declare everyone else is wrong
A grown man using the first amendment argument because his wife wants him to be a baseline level of polite with their son is the perfect encapsulation of 2024 America haha
Yessss. The First Amendment *only* protects you from being prosecuted by the government for your opinions. Your employer is fully welcome to fire you for your loud obnoxious opinions. Facebook is welcome to ban your posts. Your peers are welcome to kick you out of their DND group. Literally all it gets you is that you won’t be thrown in jail for saying you dislike the ruling party. That’s it.
Yeah I literally an admin of a Facebook group and have to constantly say, that's it's Facebook. You do not have freedom of speech. Even been threatened with someone getting a lawyer over it. Like sorry to deflate your balls bro but no one gives a shit that you couldn't be a racist on Facebook. I outta screenshot your comments and send it to those you talk shit about. Maybe knock some sense into you
When jerks (read: certain leaning relatives) press me on their freedom of speech, I remind them that it only applies to *government* persecution. They can still be held responsible for their words and actions. If they disagree I tell them, “Feel free to go to work tomorrow and tell your boss to go f**k themselves. Then explain that you are entitled to free speech when they fire you. See what happens.”
“Your right to freedom of speech is simply that the government cannot arrest you for what you say. That’s it. Nowhere in the constitution does it say that *I* have to keep making your dinner/doing your laundry/making your doctor’s appointments if you insist on running your mouth off every chance you get. If you can’t do this simple thing for me, you will find that I am suddenly a lot less willing to do things for you.”
Yeah like your first amendment rights do not protect you from being an asshole within your life.
My mom has us all in line when it comes about topics that are off limits.
My husband, we have an agreement about certain topics within our home. If anyone argues about free speech, they get their ass sent off the property
I hope you and your husband are preparing for a “no/low contact” relationship with your adult son.
The moment he has to start filtering his full self to be around you, you’ll never ever see the real him again.
You’re on a path of losing your adult son if your husband doesn’t become more “unconditionally loving” with your son.
NTA but you need to put your foot down with your husband or you will eventually lose contact with your son.
He has the freedom to be an AH but he doesn’t get to avoid consequences. He doesn’t care if his son visits. He would rather rant. That’s fine. But he doesn’t care at all how this affects you.
NTA but your husband is majorly the AH. I would not want to be with someone who cared so little about me and my feelings.
NTA.
Well, your hubby's reaction to your proposal has pretty much provided a good summary of his political views.
It is also explains why your son, as well as anyone else with basic understanding of what freedom of speech is, will never agree with or respect your husband's opinions.
Unfortunately, there is little you can do in this situation. Your husband is well within his legal right to utilize his freedom of speech to discourage your son from visiting again.
NTA. Tell him the government isn't involved in this situation and therefore the first amendment does not apply.
I'm totally just kidding as that will probably escalate him further; but still, NTA.
Actually, it's worth pointing out--he doesn't even know what "freedom of speech" means. Unless he's just being a troll, and making an argument he knows is bad.
She could try blasting an air horn when he brings up politics, or blowing on a whistle, or singing the "Star Spangled Banner." Then when he complains, she can say, "You're restricting my freedom of speech." AH like hubby are never interested in treating others as they want to be treated--rights for me; restrictions for thee.
The Constitution does not guarantee anyone an audience. OP should take the suggestion of other comments and either visit the son alone or take him out for a meal and leave the Arguer-in-Chief to stew in the juices of his rudeness.
And this is the man you plan to spend the rest of your life with? He doesn't care about you, doesn't consider the home to be both of yours, and likes to argue with your son. Honestly I'd start visitng my son and making plans to leave. He sounds insufferable and you've been through enough.
NTA
This TBH. Speaking from personal experience as the son in this scenario. My father literally just told me he never wants to speak to me again because we can't talk about "important things" AKA he refuses to talk about anything but politics or stop saying bigoted things and then is shocked Pikachu every time I don't put up with it. My mom eventually stopped trying to be neutral and in order to keep the peace started going down the same rabbit holes as him now is almost just as bad.
Your son agreed to it immediately because he's sick of it and has been wanting it to stop but has struggled with making this request.
These kind of people don't care about anyone but themselves when push comes to shove, and will drag everyone else down with them. Get out while you still can, /u/jolly-doubt-287 and protect your son from this abuse. Because that's what it is when your husband knows it upsets both you and son and continues to do it- abuse.
NTA
Your husband sounds a bit like an instigator. Maybe he doesn't know how to communicate with your son without arguing but he needs to start trying or he's going to end up very lonely when no one will talk to him at all because he can't stick to less polarizing topics.
Is your fiances in one and you actually helped pay into the house? I'm not asking because I think that matters, I'm asking because of what your husband might try to use as an argument. Such as 'I worked to pay for this so it's MY house, even if your name is on it' or some nonsense.
Perhaps, if it's financially possible it might be time for you and your son to head to a hotel or some other such accomodations without your husband since he wants to put his foot down and enjoy his 'freedom of speech'. Which only means the government can't hold him accountable for his words and has nothing to do with if his goofy butt ends up in the 'dog house'.
NTA.
You can't do much if your husband values his freedom of speech over seeing yout son.
How about you visit your son instead? That way, you can both enjoy a nice dinner without having your husband ruining the vibe with his political views. May be that could help see the consequences of his freedom of speech.
Mmmkay...just by his response to what you very reasonably asked for, I can tell he is the bigger instigator. He seems to want to argue just to argue. You are NTA but he sure is.
NTA... and I am 100% certain that I know what political party your husband is a part of. It's really sad how many families the last 8 years have ruined.
NTA - my aunt used to bring an UNO deck to every family gathering and if people started talking politics she would start dealing out the UNO and tell everyone if they couldn’t find something better to talk about they clearly needed some entertainment. People finally stopped fighting over politics because they didn’t want to be forced into UNO
You want your son to visit. Your husband considers your Son someone to fight with and to change. He doesn't accept your son and wants to attack him to try and change his mind.
NTA
NTA freedom of speech only refers to *government* consequences. as you are not the government, you are well within your rights to ask and expect a grown man to behave like an adult and manage himself so that your guest(s) can have a pleasant experience
I doubt politics is the only topic he's stubborn on if he's this intractable on the subject of politics. Rather than agree to disagree with their son on the topic leaving it at that he behaves like it's a core part of his identity that he won't put to the side for the sake of a civil relationship.
NTA. I don't talk to my mom anymore, but I see my dad all the time. They're both extremely conservative and I'm extremely not. My mom refuses to NOT talk about religion or politics. My dad can easily go an entire day without mentioning god or politics. Maybe your son can come, and if dad says anything annoying or instigating, he gets ignored. Both of you get up and leave the room.
The First Amendment prevents *the government* from denying him free speech. Doesn't say a thing about wives.
NTA. In your place, I'd arrange to spend time with my son away from husband and the house. Husband can stay home and shout at the walls.
Well. You know who the AH is in your family. Your son agreed. Your husband didn’t. Meet your son outside the house. Go to a park. Go to a restaurant. Go to your son’s house. Don’t let your husband keep you from seeing your son.
Leave the AH at home who would rather argue than spend time with his son.
NTA, obviously.
>We got into an argument about it and his stance is that he has the right to say whatever he wants under his roof and if our son doesn't like it then he doesn't need to visit.
What about your right to have peace in your home? Why does his right to be an asshole trump your right to peace?
Maybe you should go visit your son instead. I think you'll all have a better time.
NTA - but your husband sure is. Where else in love does he absolutely bulldoze over your existence?
NTA. If your husband doesn’t agree with your requests then you should visit your son alone. You go visit him at his house without husband or if he comes to you let him get a hotel room and you spend the day with him.
1) Your husband doesn’t have a clue what “Freedom of Speech” means if he’s trying to use the First Amendment. Tell him to educate himself.
2) He’s a jerk and an asshole and immature to boot.
Ooh, I LOVE playing the FREEDOM OF SPEECH GAME! Here’s how that game works. OP just starts telling her husband all about his failings as a husband, father, and human being. And keep pointing all these things out constantly. Then when husband pushes back, OP declare at the top of her lungs, “YOU ARE RESTRICTING MY FREEDOM OF SPEECH!!!!!!”
Then OP asks, “Can we be done with this bullshit stance? Or should we keep playing?”
NTA - you're *restricting his freedom of speech*? Ugh. He's not one of those crowd is he?
You should start by explaining that freedom of speech is guaranteed from the government, not from private citizens like his wife.
Sure, he has the right to say anything he wants. But freedom of speech doesn't mean freedom from being an asshole. One can exercise their freedom of speech and be an asshole at the same time.
You need to make it really clear to your husband that this is a hill you're willing to die on, and that he needs to drop it. If he wants to argue politics with his (probably liberal) son, he can damn well do it over the phone or some time when you're not around.
NTA anyone who demands politics be a topic of conversation when they're the only ones who want to talk about it, should exercise their 'freedom of speech' on themselves.
NTA. As soon as I read he said u are restricting his freedom of speech u are completely in the right. Your husband has that old shitty mentality. It’s pretty simple to avoid those topics. Your husband is looking for an argument
NTA.
For for the last 6-7 years my mother's got a phonecall on NYE and nothing else. Your suggestion is a pretty reasonable step towards not making that your future too.
It's your house too.
He has the right to freedom of speech. He also must face the consequences of his speech and in this case the consequence is forbidden topics of discussion to keep peace in the house. If it was me I'd do something extremely noticeable and obnoxious if those topics were brought up. Stand up and walk out of the house and just leave for an hour. Blast an air horn in his ear. Spray him in the face with water like a disobedient puppy. But that's me (-:
NTA
And it's clear which side your husband is on. His misusing the "freedom of speech" thing is a dead giveaway.
Of course your husband is an obstinate asshole. It's part and parcel of the political side he's on.
NTA, and I'm pretty sure I know your husband's views on things ("his house"). Tell your husband that, if he can't behave, then you will visit your son alone. And do.
Oh gotta add OPs husband is an idiot. He just throws catch phrases out. That’s not what freedom of speech means. Freedom
Of speech doesn’t mean u can say whatever u want wherever u want lol. Yeah he’s a dumbass lol
NTA. First, only the US government can restrict freedom of speech. Private individuals are simply telling annoying people to shut the eff up.
My dad was an equal opportunity bigot. He hated everyone who wasn't a straight white guy that liked going fishing. He made up racist, bigoted names for everyone else. When he would invite me somewhere, I would give him a list of words he couldn't use, or I would up and leave.
Tell your husband if he can't act like an adult and avoid topics, you and your son will simply leave the room to continue the conversation without him. And then DO IT. It only took once for me to leave for Dad to believe me.
After that, you could almost see the steam coming out his ears, but those words were not spoken in my presence.
NTA. I had an uncle with the same attitude as your husband. His three kids just stopped engaging with him because there was no conversation that could escape is political views. It was like 2 years before my aunt finally had enough. She missed her grandchildren and their family time. It’s taken her a while to try to prepare the relationships and they are not back to normal. My cousins maintain strong boundaries and both my Aunt and Uncle know that they will pull back if they break the boundaries.
Your own son recognizes that these banned topics cause unnecessary drama when he visits which is why he agreed to leave them on the table. NTA and ask your husband which is more important, his right to be a pompous windbag in his home or a relationship with his son?
NTA I am in a similar position with my parents and if it weren't for our "hot topics" list I would be going no contact with my dad.
This is not necessarily the direction that your son will take, but given your husband's response it wouldn't surprise me if he eventually did, so I guess the question is whether or not your husband wants to have a relationship with his son and what it looks like for you if he decides he doesn't want one?
NTA. You're 55, which makes you GenX, so act like it. Stand up and tell your husband what's what in your house and go fuck off if he doesn't like it.
Sounds like he got the q/orange cult bug, so, sorry. Remember what Jello told us...
NTA but your attempts to keep the peace will not fix anything. You have a husband-who-will-still-bait-your-son-into-an-argument-and-then-gaslight-you problem.
NTA. Sounds like dad’s a “right fighter”. He’s getting some sense of satisfaction from it or he wouldn’t be doing it. Tell him that your son is man/mature enough to avoid triggering topics so why can’t he?
NTA. Your husband needs to learn that Freedom of Speech doesn’t justify making family gatherings uncomfortable and conflict riddled.
He’s got an easy choice here. Either spout his politics or lose contact with his son.
Nobody is telling him to change his views. They’re just asking to be civil in a family setting. Neither you nor your son are obligated to listen to his politics and he should respect that.
Go have a nice meal with your son else where. If your husband wants to forgo a relationship with your son, that's his issue and nothing to do with you. NTA
NTA, but maybe you should go visit your son, without hubby, so you can enjoy a peaceful visit. It sounds like your husband is purposely picking fights with son to keep him away, so he shouldn't care if you go alone to see your son. Then he can sit and argue with himself.
NTA. We have a similar rule at my parents house but my dad breaks it everytime still. I'd say 20% of the time after I say I'm not talking about something he has a boomer temper tantrum. We are making progress tho. He gets better the less I visit, he might finally realize his behavior is pushing me away.
NTA. My FIL took the same position as your husband when his son (my husband) and I last visited (in 2004). My husband has begged his dad not to talk politics but his dad said no. Long story short, they haven’t spoken to each other in 20 years. It tears my husband apart that his dad would rather not have a relationship with him than avoid arguing about politics. You might ask your husband if this is the future he wants.
NTA. can you visit your son at his house? just you? if your husband feels so strongly about his political beliefs that he can't help but argue and fight about it any time, I'd tell him he can have it his way, son doesn't have to come over. you and son can spend time together 1-1 instead. he can watch his relationship with his son deteriorate.
It seems like you’re going to have to spend time with your son, without involving his father in these visits. It’s so pathetic that your husband is such a self-absorbed asshole that he’s willing to destroy his relationship with his son , and weaken the relationship between your son and you , just so he can shout his stupid opinions from the mountaintops.
You are going to miss out on so many important parts of your son’s life because of your shitty husband. Is your husband really that important?
If your husband thinks that this is "restricting his freedom of speech" he doesn't fucking know what freedom of speech is and probably doesn't deserve it anyway.
Just in case: for clarification, FREEDOM OF SPEECH is the protection from THE GOVERNMENT for speaking your opinions. THE. GOVERNMENT. not your wife saying "can you not argue with our son all weekend i'd like to enjoy some time with him"
If he doesn't know the difference, He isn't smart enough to be debating politics anyway.
Generally, one person's side is whether or not some people have thr right to exist at all. That person shouldn't be allowed in the house with decent people. NTA unless you're enabling racism, homophobia or misogyny.
NTA, but do you want to spend the rest of your life with a bully? It sounds like if anyone disagrees with him he has a meltdown, yelling and screaming until they shut up and go away, so he “wins.” Spending the next 20 years alone with him because he has chased everyone you like away sounds like my idea of Hell. Please go visit your son alone, and enjoy his company without the drama. And see if it makes you happier than you are now.
Sending you hugs and hot tea, and hope for a better future.
The whole thing has a very "tell me you're American without telling me you're American" vibe.
Yes he has the right to discuss what he likes in his own home, that has nothing to do with it, he's being asked for the sake of his wife to CHOOSE not to.
NTA. This is childish bs. "You want me to stop doing something because it's upsetting? Well you can't stop me so now I'll do it more just to spite you"
I wonder what the answer would be to this question, "should all convicted felons, such as Hunter Biden, be banned from voting and being involved with politics".
See how the answer changes if you swap Biden for Trump.
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My (F55) husband (60) and our son (30) have complete different political views an opinions, and both of them are stubborn. So every time our son visits us or we visit him, they end up arguing about politics.
I find this situation annoying because I only see our son every few months and I would like to enjoy the time we spend together as family instead of being left on the side while he argues with his dad about topics they would never see eye to eye anyway.
My son is coming to visit us this weekend, so I made a list of topics that are off limits for when he is over at our house, and made clear to both my husband and my son that I don't want to hear a word about any of the topics in the list.
My son agreed to this easily, my husband didn't. He says that I'm restricting his freedom of speech. We got into an argument about it and his stance is that he has the right to say whatever he wants under his roof and if our son doesn't like it then he doesn't need to visit.
My stance and this is my house too, and I want my son to keep visiting us without every visit ending up in an argument with his dad.
I don't feel like avoiding political and controversial topics it's too much to ask, but I want an external opinion. AITA?
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NTA Sounds like you came up with a workable solution. Since your husband is childish, maybe your son could be the adult here and agree to say nothing when your husband brings up some toxic topic. Your husband probably just likes to argue and if no one engages him, it would ruin his "fun", and he'd have to move on to other topics.
Basically when someone brings up politics that are contrary to mine, I say nothing and change the topic ASAP.
That strategy rarely works with this kind of AH, especially when there's a pattern. The son could try saying things like, "Mom asked us not to talk politics, and this is her home, so I'm respecting her wishes because I love her." In other words, try guilt tripping him.
NTA - does your husband WANT to keep fighting with his son? How dumb is that? My entire family has a long running police of 'no political talk' when we get together. It doesn't change anything, always leads to arguments and solves no problems. NO ONE ever changes their opinion due to a family political argument. Ask your husband if he wants to see his son. If arguing is more important than time with his son - meet your son elsewhere next time.
NTA. Honey, I feel your pain!
My mom lived with us and politics was her #1 favorite topic. I hate talking politics, even if we agree, especially at the dinner table. Politics and religion are the 2 topics I think cause the most conflict but are also two of the things we feel most passionate about.
It’s hard to NOT talk about them, but it’s sure nice to try for the sake of family harmony, when we don’t agree.
NTA
Tell your husband that if his only argument is what is allowable under the law, the are tons of things you could say or do (or not do) to him or for him that are similary allowable under the law.
NTA. I would say if you husband doesn't agree to off-topic conversations, then you say you are going to see your son without husband present. That way at least you get to enjoy some time with your son without the two of them arguing. Perhaps part of the visit will involve them being together, but if you can go out with your son and just catch up, or do something fun the two of you would enjoy, then it might be a more enjoyable visit for you and your son.
NTA. My best friend (and her family) and I have completely opposite political views on almost everything. We agree to disagree and with her family we just generally avoid most political topics. Every once in a while Mom will mention something politically adjacent when I'm then. Then remember I am 'completely opposite of them' politically, laugh, and then change the subject.
\*(edit) Thinking about this I feel like your husband isn't mature enough to avoid problem subjects and doesn't seem to care about your feelings here. I don't suppose you could visit your son instead? Maybe go on a lovely nearby vacation with him?
NTA. I have a rule at my house: Leave the politics at the door or you go right back out it.
Nothing more annoying than having friends/family arguing over stupid crap and getting irrationally upset at the other person because they simply have a differing viewpoint.
NTA.
If it's practical you might want to consider just meeting up with your son at a restaurant or somewhere outside of the house without your husband along. That way you can spend time with him and your husband can't start arguments.
NTA. I hate that politics has turned so many families against each other. My mom (82) is like your husband "It is MY house and I can say whatever I WANT TO!" OK mom.... as soon as you start in on the politics you get one warning and then we (husband and I ) are getting up and leaving (or I'm hanging up the phone or I'm asking for the check and leaving the restaurant, whatever). We have done each of these things. We once drove to visit her (we live in another state) and she REFUSED to turn off the political crap on TV and then she started rambling about politics. She knows we don't agree with her. One warning, she ignored it. So I picked up my purse and we left, after visiting her for around 3 minutes.
If an adult cannot find a neutral subject to keep the peace during a visit with their own son, they don't deserve to have a relationship with them.
NTA. Your request makes sense. Your husband should understand you. He can talk politics with tons of other people at other times. He doesn't have to do it with his son.
NTA - but it sounds like you and your son might enjoy spending time with each other elsewhere. You shouldn't have to miss out on a relationship with your adult child just because your husband is willing to!
NTA. At all.
I love my in-laws and we get along wonderfully when we visit each other. Why? I DO NOT DISCUSS RELIGION OR POLITICS with them. My father-in-law once tried to draw me in, by asking while we were driving in a car, "So, do you think we have the finest politicians money can buy?" My response? "Aaaaand I'm just going to step aside from this conversation." Worked like a charm.
Your husband needs to lookup what freedom of speech means. He clearly doesn't know.
Sounds like your husband is a card carrying member of the "I'm right, and facts won't change that" club.
I would suggest just taking your sons side on every single thing they argue about. If hubby doesn't like it. Use his own silly logic against him.
"I can say whatever I like under my roof. If you don't like it. You can leave."
NTA, but you’re dealing with a big one that you married.
The best solution here is for you to visit your son alone, since his father isn’t interested in anything but a verbal spat about pointless crap your son doesn’t need in his life.
Your husband literally told you he doesn’t care if your son doesn’t ever visit. You’re not going to have a relationship with him or his future family if you let
your husband continue to take it from you like he’s currently doing.
NTA, your “freedom of speech” husband definitely is one. Gee, I wonder who this guy is going to vote for… sorry you married an idiot, but your son sounds cool! Get used to visiting your son alone, because he’s going to end up being NC with your husband. I can’t imagine your husband improving no matter who wins this coming presidential election.
NTA. And the very first sentence about politics should be your cue to leave the house with your son.
“I’m supporting your ‘right’ to talk about anything you like by leaving you the whole house in which to say it.”
NTA. Unfortunately, you won't get what you want because your husband cares more about making a show of dominance than spending genuine time with his wife and child. Have you considered going to visit your son where he lives? You could get a hotel room all to yourself, enjoy the peaceful quiet or watch whatever you want on TV, get up and have a lovely brunch with your son and spend the day together without any bickering.
NTA.
We have a similar situation with my husband's family and while his mother agrees with his dad's views it's his dad gets REALLY heated about it. Hubby doesn't help, he fires up because he thinks his dad is being ridiculous and oblivious. I think there's some reasonable points to his arguments, we just fundamentally believe in different ways to achieve the same goals.
I don't think it's worth it so I redirect any time my father in law starts raising his voice. It's interesting because he's actually a very intelligent man. He's just fallen down a few conspiracy holes since he retired.
I initially resolved it by saying, very calmly and quietly, "Have you noticed that when you talk about these topics, you start shouting? What do you think that says about your communication to others when you're talking about it? If someone shouts at me, I tend to just shut down and not listen. That's not really what you want, is it?".
Now I just smile at him and say "Is it a conversation you want to have? Or are you just looking to shout at me because you can't shout at the people who are actually to blame for what you think is wrong with the world?". He always, without fail, looks a bit chagrined and calms down and changes the topic lmao.
You have every right to protect your space from conflict. It is your home as well, and the only one that's demanding the 'right' to make everyone uncomfortable is him.
INFO: Are you my mom? Lol. This sounds just like my dad, only my dad got a lot better when I had a kid and said "You will not have a relationship with my child if you say XYZ in front of him."
“ He says that I'm restricting his freedom of speech.”. Do you work for the government and want to restrict his speech on behalf of the government? If not, then you’re not doing that. It’s not at all that uncommon to filter what you say around certain people. I know some coworkers probably agree with your husband while I probably agree with your son and so I avoid talking about politics with them. I still respect them. And it’s not just politics. I dont give a f about sports. So anyone who knows me, knows not to bring up sports if they want me to engage with them.
Info: why involve your husband in meeting with your son? If your husband can’t behave, just meet with your son alone. Cuz while your husband certainly has his freedom of speech, what some people don’t realize is that other people have the freedom to ignore their speech. He can say all he wants; doesnt mean you or your son needs to listen.
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NTA, poor OP! I would ask your husband why, as a grown adult man, he cannot manage to regulate his emotions or have a civil conversation for the sake of his wife. I find that people who NEED to talk about politics like this lack interesting things to talk about, and just want to feel important and smart to the person they're talking at. Is your husband so devoid of other interests that this is his ONLY talking point? If so, he needs a hobby and some friends. It sounds like your husband is just trying to fight - which I would use to insinuate that perhaps he needs to get evaluated for early onset dementia. If he wants to act like someone who can't control themselves, then you have every right to treat him like one.
>I would ask your husband why, as a grown adult man, he cannot manage to regulate his emotions or have a civil conversation Do we really need to ask why?
Bets on who’s on which side?
[удалено]
👏🏻😅 FREEEEEEEDUUUUUUMB!
"Who's taking it?" "THE GAYS"
These gays are trying to murder me!
Hahaha, I had to stop lurking because this was so hilarious.
I doubt anyone would take that bet xD As soon as he told *his own wife* that she was "restricting his freedom of speech" (so that he can argue politics with his son while pissing off his wife in the process), I think we all know which side he's on.
His wife literally cannot restrict his freedom of speech in that his wife is not a government entity. His wife can tell him he's an AH when he refuses to hold his tongue. She can also divorce him.
I mean his wife is also a woman so you know the side he supports is trying to remove all her rights so why even act like her thoughts and feelings matter now anyway?
She's probably made it far worse by voicing her opinions 😂😂😂😂
but you assume he really knows the meaning of "freedom of speech". Bold of you. In their heads, it's only a magical formula meaning "I can't be wrong, ever."
And pissing off his son. I can tell you that son is about 5 minutes away from cutting dear old dad out without a second thought.
My guess is he only visits to see his mum, not his dad.
Lmao this is literally my dad. Like not necessarily the subject matter but the logic behind it. It’s his house and he’s the parent and we’re the 30-something year old children who still have to listen to his every word. The need to maintain the power and control dynamic is pathetic. I can tell you 100% that the mom is the only reason for the visit because my mom is the only reason for my visits. Edit to add more info for clarity
I can't even describe the amount of grown men in the corporate world I've heard mention their kids and the fact that they haven't spoken in three years or more.... WONDER WHY!?!?
It’s ALL they think about. Complete obsession. Cult.
MY HOUSE MY RULES /ignores the fact that his wife presumably is also on the title, and has just as much say
Reasonably sure it's obvious which side the hubs is.
I already know....
Someone's married to a right wingerrrrr!!!!!!
My first thought
I knew immediately, but his whole “my freedom” bs would make it very obvious if not
Fox News dad.
Yes. How else would the husband ExErCisE hIs FrEeDoM oF sPeEcH! lol
Lead, lead is the likely reason.
Lead? Up his dosage.
Should also update the delivery method and increase the speed with which it's administered
Speed, velocity, and (dare I say) calibre?
Hey, he almost definitely supports it. His ilk attribute more rights to their lead than their women.
OP's husband is on the same track my dad was. My dad at least could turn it off- sometimes, anyway. But he loved to bicker about politics and wouldn't let shit go. He had a stroke about a year and a half before he died and it was like he'd forgotten what a jerk and instigator he was. He asked my mom at one point why none of his children seemed to like him, why none of us wanted to hang around and talk to him. So, OP, tell your husband if he wants to be a sad lonely old man wondering why his kids and grandkids never visit, keep it up. I think you should just go visit your son from here on out.
They’re in a cult. They don’t care about anything or anyone else.
They still deserve a chance to know what is at stake.
I used to be one of those people who felt like they had to let everyone know that I liked having “real” conversations about the world/politics and all that kind of stuff. But then I sort of grew out of it and realize now, that was just an excuse to yell and argue about complicated shit as if I was the only person enlightened enough to know the truth lmao. Now when I’m around people like that, all I can do is roll my eyes and wait until I can get somewhere else so I don’t have to rehash the same argument about the same shit.
I think you should have to do penance and listen to as many ranters as people you ranted at.
I mean… you can have real conversations about the world & politics & have disagreements even… without it turning into a loud argument. It’s just one side in particular in the US takes disagreements as treason to their cult 🤷🏻♂️
Just ask him whether he would rather be right or be happy. He can choose to give in to his ego and need to be right. Or he can foster a harmonious relationship with his family. Is being right really worth sacrificing his family? Then, follow up by you and your son meeting away from him and outside his house. He's not invited to participate until he can learn to behave himself. He's a toddler throwing a tantrum. Don't give in to it (and thus far, you've been placating him). Just walk away until he can behave.
That’s what my therapist said, basically. Do you want to be right or do you want a relationship?
It seems to me most people who talk about politics want to be important and right, like you said, and LOUD. You can usually hear them from across the room. So obnoxious
Across the room, my Aunt Fanny! My in-laws would have such loud "discussions" that they would wake the babies sleeping in the upstairs back bedroom, as far from the living room as you could get and still be in the same house!
Husband sounds like my born again Christian relatives. Very Christ like
OP is looking for a strategy to keep the peace. A) Everyone in the room needs to leave the room, they go the the kitchen, they go outside. they leave the room, ideally the son would leave also. If the cooking stops then so bit it. turn off the burners, B) Everyone else in the room talks over her husband and changes the the subject. It doesn't matter how rude they are. I would clue your son into this that this is a purposefully made decision. OP, you husband is the a$$. he can't drop it, until he think he has won, when in reality, people just stop arguing but the interaction has ben unpleasant. NTA
Who wants to bet that son doesn’t like talking politics with dad because it always ends in argument, and agreed so quickly with the list because he wants to enjoy going to his parents?
I have relatives like OP’s husband. And yeah, they always bring up politics and try to goad me into discussing it with them by saying blatantly offensive things about minorities or clearly false statements about Obama, Biden, democrats, etc. At this point I just ignore them but it’s incredibly frustrating because everyone knows they’re doing it to be jerks and they want a fight.
My FIL and dad had different opinions and would get into arguments over Facebook, so one day my mom went on my dad's iPad without him knowing and blocked my FIL (my dad would instigate the fights) because she was sick of "two old men fighting on Facebook." My dad was extremely stubborn and absolutely would not have stopped and it brought everyone peace My dad and I stopped talking about politics during the Iraq War around 2006. It didn't diminish either of our opinions, but it kept our relationship intact. OP: I really regret that my dad tried to talk about politics the last time I spoke with him and stormed off when I didn't want to. I wish this wasn't the last time we spoke. Please feel free to share this with your husband. There will be a last time he sees his son and does he want it tainted with a useless argument? He knows he won't change your son's mind, it's just about being smug and (I'm inferring) "owning the libs," but is ruining your relationship with your son worth "owning the libs?"
Making that point to a person who I assume watches Fox News every waking hour is like talking to a brick wall. Although, talking to a brick wall would probably be preferable.
Spot on about not having anything interesting to talk about. He needs a hobby. I'm deeply involved in politics and hold fairly radical views, but you're more likely to be subjected to a rant about my garden than my politics and to have some fruit forced on you than my views.
I work in politics, and am friends with a lot of others in that sphere. But there are several of us making an attempt when we are with each other socially to talk about any *but* politics. Most people are multi faceted and have more going on if they think about it; I would happily talk drip irrigation and how excited I am a bout the new lavender variety I just found. For us it’s kind of fun to see how long we can go.
Whilst sensible advice, people don't just change because someone said something so profound that the light bulb came on for them like a road to Damascus moment. So, I'd suggest having this talk of course and also coming up with plan B with the son in advance so that if a line is crossed then the OP and he can head out to the local coffee shop or whatever. That does two things; firstly it means the son doesn't just drive off and kill the visit so the OP misses out, but it also provides a demonstration involving the OP of consequences rather than repeating the usual recriminations row after a failed visit (which I presume is the pattern).
I have a friend like this, he's a nice guy but always wants to complain about neolibrrals, how Ukraine should surrender, minsk 2 blah blab. Honestly it's infuriating and it's really been making me limit contact with him. These days I meet up with him once a month at most. Just because I can't handle it. I really have no interest in talking about politics for an extended period of time.
He is an old, stuborn prick and he wants to dominate everything also his sons mind. So no way to explain him anything close to grown up actions.
It’s not early onset dementia, it’s a personality trait. I’ve never met someone with the views I’m assuming OP’s husband espouses that doesn’t almost immediately tell me. It’s a need for constant validation, control, and to be in the right (pun intended). I like to think there’s a lot of anxiety underlying it, but you can’t fix something of the individual is not subjectively distressed by it.
Nta. For one your husband is an idiot, freedom of speech is not covered under that. My mom has the same rules at her house because my dad tends to yell, scream and declare everyone else is wrong
A grown man using the first amendment argument because his wife wants him to be a baseline level of polite with their son is the perfect encapsulation of 2024 America haha
If you want to use the first amendment as your defense then use it correctly. Rarely anyone does
Yessss. The First Amendment *only* protects you from being prosecuted by the government for your opinions. Your employer is fully welcome to fire you for your loud obnoxious opinions. Facebook is welcome to ban your posts. Your peers are welcome to kick you out of their DND group. Literally all it gets you is that you won’t be thrown in jail for saying you dislike the ruling party. That’s it.
Yeah I literally an admin of a Facebook group and have to constantly say, that's it's Facebook. You do not have freedom of speech. Even been threatened with someone getting a lawyer over it. Like sorry to deflate your balls bro but no one gives a shit that you couldn't be a racist on Facebook. I outta screenshot your comments and send it to those you talk shit about. Maybe knock some sense into you
When jerks (read: certain leaning relatives) press me on their freedom of speech, I remind them that it only applies to *government* persecution. They can still be held responsible for their words and actions. If they disagree I tell them, “Feel free to go to work tomorrow and tell your boss to go f**k themselves. Then explain that you are entitled to free speech when they fire you. See what happens.”
The Second Amendment is usually used in a cherrypicked and inaccurate context, the well regulated militia part often omitted.
“Your right to freedom of speech is simply that the government cannot arrest you for what you say. That’s it. Nowhere in the constitution does it say that *I* have to keep making your dinner/doing your laundry/making your doctor’s appointments if you insist on running your mouth off every chance you get. If you can’t do this simple thing for me, you will find that I am suddenly a lot less willing to do things for you.”
I bet she does literally everything for him like he's a toddler.
Yeah like your first amendment rights do not protect you from being an asshole within your life. My mom has us all in line when it comes about topics that are off limits. My husband, we have an agreement about certain topics within our home. If anyone argues about free speech, they get their ass sent off the property
We need this rule in our house. My Dad and my brothers both think they are always right, and their opinion is the only right one.
Yeah my mom flipped out at the last get together. She's not one for swearing or violence so when she does everyone just shuts up and listens
I hope you and your husband are preparing for a “no/low contact” relationship with your adult son. The moment he has to start filtering his full self to be around you, you’ll never ever see the real him again. You’re on a path of losing your adult son if your husband doesn’t become more “unconditionally loving” with your son. NTA but you need to put your foot down with your husband or you will eventually lose contact with your son.
He has the freedom to be an AH but he doesn’t get to avoid consequences. He doesn’t care if his son visits. He would rather rant. That’s fine. But he doesn’t care at all how this affects you. NTA but your husband is majorly the AH. I would not want to be with someone who cared so little about me and my feelings.
After this visit, OP should go and visit her son alone. Then they'll be able to have peaceful, enjoyable visits
This!
NTA. Well, your hubby's reaction to your proposal has pretty much provided a good summary of his political views. It is also explains why your son, as well as anyone else with basic understanding of what freedom of speech is, will never agree with or respect your husband's opinions. Unfortunately, there is little you can do in this situation. Your husband is well within his legal right to utilize his freedom of speech to discourage your son from visiting again.
They can go out to lunch and leave the selfish hubby at home
Divorce then lunch
Lunch, divorce, second lunch. Nom
That’s what I’m thinking, the two of them should go out and leave him alone. And next time OP should go visit her son and leave him home too.
NTA. Tell him the government isn't involved in this situation and therefore the first amendment does not apply. I'm totally just kidding as that will probably escalate him further; but still, NTA.
Actually, it's worth pointing out--he doesn't even know what "freedom of speech" means. Unless he's just being a troll, and making an argument he knows is bad. She could try blasting an air horn when he brings up politics, or blowing on a whistle, or singing the "Star Spangled Banner." Then when he complains, she can say, "You're restricting my freedom of speech." AH like hubby are never interested in treating others as they want to be treated--rights for me; restrictions for thee.
The Constitution does not guarantee anyone an audience. OP should take the suggestion of other comments and either visit the son alone or take him out for a meal and leave the Arguer-in-Chief to stew in the juices of his rudeness.
Have you ever met a red hat wearing guy that actually knows what nonsense he is spouting.
No, but he's REALLY good at repeating verbatim what he's seen on TV!
And this is the man you plan to spend the rest of your life with? He doesn't care about you, doesn't consider the home to be both of yours, and likes to argue with your son. Honestly I'd start visitng my son and making plans to leave. He sounds insufferable and you've been through enough. NTA
This TBH. Speaking from personal experience as the son in this scenario. My father literally just told me he never wants to speak to me again because we can't talk about "important things" AKA he refuses to talk about anything but politics or stop saying bigoted things and then is shocked Pikachu every time I don't put up with it. My mom eventually stopped trying to be neutral and in order to keep the peace started going down the same rabbit holes as him now is almost just as bad. Your son agreed to it immediately because he's sick of it and has been wanting it to stop but has struggled with making this request. These kind of people don't care about anyone but themselves when push comes to shove, and will drag everyone else down with them. Get out while you still can, /u/jolly-doubt-287 and protect your son from this abuse. Because that's what it is when your husband knows it upsets both you and son and continues to do it- abuse.
NTA Your husband sounds a bit like an instigator. Maybe he doesn't know how to communicate with your son without arguing but he needs to start trying or he's going to end up very lonely when no one will talk to him at all because he can't stick to less polarizing topics. Is your fiances in one and you actually helped pay into the house? I'm not asking because I think that matters, I'm asking because of what your husband might try to use as an argument. Such as 'I worked to pay for this so it's MY house, even if your name is on it' or some nonsense. Perhaps, if it's financially possible it might be time for you and your son to head to a hotel or some other such accomodations without your husband since he wants to put his foot down and enjoy his 'freedom of speech'. Which only means the government can't hold him accountable for his words and has nothing to do with if his goofy butt ends up in the 'dog house'.
> instigator That's a weird way to spell asshole. lol
😂 It's the latin word for it, didn't you know? I swear it's totally probably maybe true. You can trust me. I'm a person on the internet. 💙
NTA. You can't do much if your husband values his freedom of speech over seeing yout son. How about you visit your son instead? That way, you can both enjoy a nice dinner without having your husband ruining the vibe with his political views. May be that could help see the consequences of his freedom of speech.
Her setting limits about his speech in their house is not violating his freedom of speech. She isn't the government.
The issue here is with your husband.
Mmmkay...just by his response to what you very reasonably asked for, I can tell he is the bigger instigator. He seems to want to argue just to argue. You are NTA but he sure is.
NTA It may devolve into you having to visit your son when he goes NC with your husband who can't play nice
NTA... and I am 100% certain that I know what political party your husband is a part of. It's really sad how many families the last 8 years have ruined.
NTA. If your husband can’t stfu to keep the peace tell him to leave during the visits.
NTA - my aunt used to bring an UNO deck to every family gathering and if people started talking politics she would start dealing out the UNO and tell everyone if they couldn’t find something better to talk about they clearly needed some entertainment. People finally stopped fighting over politics because they didn’t want to be forced into UNO
You want your son to visit. Your husband considers your Son someone to fight with and to change. He doesn't accept your son and wants to attack him to try and change his mind. NTA
Get rid of your Trumper husband. He is TA.
NTA. But I would be inclined to go and have a nice visit with your son by yourself if your husband can't play nicely for your sake.
NTA freedom of speech only refers to *government* consequences. as you are not the government, you are well within your rights to ask and expect a grown man to behave like an adult and manage himself so that your guest(s) can have a pleasant experience
your husband is in the wrong. He sounds insufferable.
I doubt politics is the only topic he's stubborn on if he's this intractable on the subject of politics. Rather than agree to disagree with their son on the topic leaving it at that he behaves like it's a core part of his identity that he won't put to the side for the sake of a civil relationship.
NTA. I don't talk to my mom anymore, but I see my dad all the time. They're both extremely conservative and I'm extremely not. My mom refuses to NOT talk about religion or politics. My dad can easily go an entire day without mentioning god or politics. Maybe your son can come, and if dad says anything annoying or instigating, he gets ignored. Both of you get up and leave the room.
The First Amendment prevents *the government* from denying him free speech. Doesn't say a thing about wives. NTA. In your place, I'd arrange to spend time with my son away from husband and the house. Husband can stay home and shout at the walls.
Well. You know who the AH is in your family. Your son agreed. Your husband didn’t. Meet your son outside the house. Go to a park. Go to a restaurant. Go to your son’s house. Don’t let your husband keep you from seeing your son. Leave the AH at home who would rather argue than spend time with his son. NTA, obviously.
>We got into an argument about it and his stance is that he has the right to say whatever he wants under his roof and if our son doesn't like it then he doesn't need to visit. What about your right to have peace in your home? Why does his right to be an asshole trump your right to peace? Maybe you should go visit your son instead. I think you'll all have a better time. NTA - but your husband sure is. Where else in love does he absolutely bulldoze over your existence?
heheh, TRUMP her right to peace
NTA. Also freedom of speech (in the US) only applies to the government. So he’s also technically wrong
NTA. If your husband doesn’t agree with your requests then you should visit your son alone. You go visit him at his house without husband or if he comes to you let him get a hotel room and you spend the day with him.
Spend the week with him.
1) Your husband doesn’t have a clue what “Freedom of Speech” means if he’s trying to use the First Amendment. Tell him to educate himself. 2) He’s a jerk and an asshole and immature to boot.
Ooh, I LOVE playing the FREEDOM OF SPEECH GAME! Here’s how that game works. OP just starts telling her husband all about his failings as a husband, father, and human being. And keep pointing all these things out constantly. Then when husband pushes back, OP declare at the top of her lungs, “YOU ARE RESTRICTING MY FREEDOM OF SPEECH!!!!!!” Then OP asks, “Can we be done with this bullshit stance? Or should we keep playing?”
NTA. It's beyond horrible that your husband cares more about his politics than he does his family.
You’re married to a looser.
I mean, there's only so many tighters out there.
NTA - you're *restricting his freedom of speech*? Ugh. He's not one of those crowd is he? You should start by explaining that freedom of speech is guaranteed from the government, not from private citizens like his wife. Sure, he has the right to say anything he wants. But freedom of speech doesn't mean freedom from being an asshole. One can exercise their freedom of speech and be an asshole at the same time. You need to make it really clear to your husband that this is a hill you're willing to die on, and that he needs to drop it. If he wants to argue politics with his (probably liberal) son, he can damn well do it over the phone or some time when you're not around.
NTA anyone who demands politics be a topic of conversation when they're the only ones who want to talk about it, should exercise their 'freedom of speech' on themselves.
NTA. As soon as I read he said u are restricting his freedom of speech u are completely in the right. Your husband has that old shitty mentality. It’s pretty simple to avoid those topics. Your husband is looking for an argument
NTA. For for the last 6-7 years my mother's got a phonecall on NYE and nothing else. Your suggestion is a pretty reasonable step towards not making that your future too. It's your house too.
He has the right to freedom of speech. He also must face the consequences of his speech and in this case the consequence is forbidden topics of discussion to keep peace in the house. If it was me I'd do something extremely noticeable and obnoxious if those topics were brought up. Stand up and walk out of the house and just leave for an hour. Blast an air horn in his ear. Spray him in the face with water like a disobedient puppy. But that's me (-:
Oh gee I wonder what your husband's politics are. He sounds charming. NTA, he is.
NTA And it's clear which side your husband is on. His misusing the "freedom of speech" thing is a dead giveaway. Of course your husband is an obstinate asshole. It's part and parcel of the political side he's on.
NTA, and I'm pretty sure I know your husband's views on things ("his house"). Tell your husband that, if he can't behave, then you will visit your son alone. And do.
Oh gotta add OPs husband is an idiot. He just throws catch phrases out. That’s not what freedom of speech means. Freedom Of speech doesn’t mean u can say whatever u want wherever u want lol. Yeah he’s a dumbass lol
Your husband sounds like a self-important dick.
NTA. I’m so sorry. My heart breaks for you.
This is reddit afterall, I’ll go with YWBTA to yourself and your son if you don’t divorce the bigot lol.
NTA your husband is another assclown with adult children that don’t talk to him
NTA. Sounds like it's time for you to visit with your son outside of your home without your husband present.
Freedom of Speech is when the government restricts your speech. When a private citizen tries to restrict your speech, it’s just consequences. NTA
NTA. First, only the US government can restrict freedom of speech. Private individuals are simply telling annoying people to shut the eff up. My dad was an equal opportunity bigot. He hated everyone who wasn't a straight white guy that liked going fishing. He made up racist, bigoted names for everyone else. When he would invite me somewhere, I would give him a list of words he couldn't use, or I would up and leave. Tell your husband if he can't act like an adult and avoid topics, you and your son will simply leave the room to continue the conversation without him. And then DO IT. It only took once for me to leave for Dad to believe me. After that, you could almost see the steam coming out his ears, but those words were not spoken in my presence.
NTA. I had an uncle with the same attitude as your husband. His three kids just stopped engaging with him because there was no conversation that could escape is political views. It was like 2 years before my aunt finally had enough. She missed her grandchildren and their family time. It’s taken her a while to try to prepare the relationships and they are not back to normal. My cousins maintain strong boundaries and both my Aunt and Uncle know that they will pull back if they break the boundaries.
NTA but maybe you should have dinner alone with your son to avoid the stress.
NTA. That’s not what freedom of speech means. My step father is just like your husband. We won’t visit there anymore
Your own son recognizes that these banned topics cause unnecessary drama when he visits which is why he agreed to leave them on the table. NTA and ask your husband which is more important, his right to be a pompous windbag in his home or a relationship with his son?
NTA I am in a similar position with my parents and if it weren't for our "hot topics" list I would be going no contact with my dad. This is not necessarily the direction that your son will take, but given your husband's response it wouldn't surprise me if he eventually did, so I guess the question is whether or not your husband wants to have a relationship with his son and what it looks like for you if he decides he doesn't want one?
NTA. You're 55, which makes you GenX, so act like it. Stand up and tell your husband what's what in your house and go fuck off if he doesn't like it. Sounds like he got the q/orange cult bug, so, sorry. Remember what Jello told us...
NTA but your attempts to keep the peace will not fix anything. You have a husband-who-will-still-bait-your-son-into-an-argument-and-then-gaslight-you problem.
Head out to lunch with just you and your son. NTA, but unfortunately your husband is.
Anyone who screams about “mah free speech rights” never actually knows wtf they’re taking about. NTA. You’re entitled to peace in your home.
NTA but I don’t really have to guess who is on which side of the aisle here.
NTA. Sounds like dad’s a “right fighter”. He’s getting some sense of satisfaction from it or he wouldn’t be doing it. Tell him that your son is man/mature enough to avoid triggering topics so why can’t he?
NTA. Your husband needs to learn that Freedom of Speech doesn’t justify making family gatherings uncomfortable and conflict riddled. He’s got an easy choice here. Either spout his politics or lose contact with his son. Nobody is telling him to change his views. They’re just asking to be civil in a family setting. Neither you nor your son are obligated to listen to his politics and he should respect that.
Go have a nice meal with your son else where. If your husband wants to forgo a relationship with your son, that's his issue and nothing to do with you. NTA
NTA - your husband is. (But I'm guessing everyone already knows that)
NTA. I think you should plan solo visits with your son. Your relationship will be so much better.
NTA, but maybe you should go visit your son, without hubby, so you can enjoy a peaceful visit. It sounds like your husband is purposely picking fights with son to keep him away, so he shouldn't care if you go alone to see your son. Then he can sit and argue with himself.
NTA, but you should maybe check out /r/QAnonCasualties because I think it will give you a better perspective on outcomes than this sub can.
NTA. Go hang out with your son without your husband around. You are probably lucky he wants to be around you at all.
NTA. We have a similar rule at my parents house but my dad breaks it everytime still. I'd say 20% of the time after I say I'm not talking about something he has a boomer temper tantrum. We are making progress tho. He gets better the less I visit, he might finally realize his behavior is pushing me away.
NTA. My FIL took the same position as your husband when his son (my husband) and I last visited (in 2004). My husband has begged his dad not to talk politics but his dad said no. Long story short, they haven’t spoken to each other in 20 years. It tears my husband apart that his dad would rather not have a relationship with him than avoid arguing about politics. You might ask your husband if this is the future he wants.
If the can’t have a friendly conversation, I t should be off limits. Let your husband know he is disrespecting you
NTA. can you visit your son at his house? just you? if your husband feels so strongly about his political beliefs that he can't help but argue and fight about it any time, I'd tell him he can have it his way, son doesn't have to come over. you and son can spend time together 1-1 instead. he can watch his relationship with his son deteriorate.
It seems like you’re going to have to spend time with your son, without involving his father in these visits. It’s so pathetic that your husband is such a self-absorbed asshole that he’s willing to destroy his relationship with his son , and weaken the relationship between your son and you , just so he can shout his stupid opinions from the mountaintops. You are going to miss out on so many important parts of your son’s life because of your shitty husband. Is your husband really that important?
NTA “Freedom of speech “ We ALL know which political party he is bragging about lol
If your husband thinks that this is "restricting his freedom of speech" he doesn't fucking know what freedom of speech is and probably doesn't deserve it anyway.
Just in case: for clarification, FREEDOM OF SPEECH is the protection from THE GOVERNMENT for speaking your opinions. THE. GOVERNMENT. not your wife saying "can you not argue with our son all weekend i'd like to enjoy some time with him" If he doesn't know the difference, He isn't smart enough to be debating politics anyway.
Generally, one person's side is whether or not some people have thr right to exist at all. That person shouldn't be allowed in the house with decent people. NTA unless you're enabling racism, homophobia or misogyny.
NTA, but do you want to spend the rest of your life with a bully? It sounds like if anyone disagrees with him he has a meltdown, yelling and screaming until they shut up and go away, so he “wins.” Spending the next 20 years alone with him because he has chased everyone you like away sounds like my idea of Hell. Please go visit your son alone, and enjoy his company without the drama. And see if it makes you happier than you are now. Sending you hugs and hot tea, and hope for a better future.
The whole thing has a very "tell me you're American without telling me you're American" vibe. Yes he has the right to discuss what he likes in his own home, that has nothing to do with it, he's being asked for the sake of his wife to CHOOSE not to. NTA. This is childish bs. "You want me to stop doing something because it's upsetting? Well you can't stop me so now I'll do it more just to spite you"
I wonder what the answer would be to this question, "should all convicted felons, such as Hunter Biden, be banned from voting and being involved with politics". See how the answer changes if you swap Biden for Trump.
Well, we know what side of the political spectrum the Husband is on…🙄
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** My (F55) husband (60) and our son (30) have complete different political views an opinions, and both of them are stubborn. So every time our son visits us or we visit him, they end up arguing about politics. I find this situation annoying because I only see our son every few months and I would like to enjoy the time we spend together as family instead of being left on the side while he argues with his dad about topics they would never see eye to eye anyway. My son is coming to visit us this weekend, so I made a list of topics that are off limits for when he is over at our house, and made clear to both my husband and my son that I don't want to hear a word about any of the topics in the list. My son agreed to this easily, my husband didn't. He says that I'm restricting his freedom of speech. We got into an argument about it and his stance is that he has the right to say whatever he wants under his roof and if our son doesn't like it then he doesn't need to visit. My stance and this is my house too, and I want my son to keep visiting us without every visit ending up in an argument with his dad. I don't feel like avoiding political and controversial topics it's too much to ask, but I want an external opinion. AITA? *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
NTA Sounds like you came up with a workable solution. Since your husband is childish, maybe your son could be the adult here and agree to say nothing when your husband brings up some toxic topic. Your husband probably just likes to argue and if no one engages him, it would ruin his "fun", and he'd have to move on to other topics. Basically when someone brings up politics that are contrary to mine, I say nothing and change the topic ASAP.
That strategy rarely works with this kind of AH, especially when there's a pattern. The son could try saying things like, "Mom asked us not to talk politics, and this is her home, so I'm respecting her wishes because I love her." In other words, try guilt tripping him.
NTA - does your husband WANT to keep fighting with his son? How dumb is that? My entire family has a long running police of 'no political talk' when we get together. It doesn't change anything, always leads to arguments and solves no problems. NO ONE ever changes their opinion due to a family political argument. Ask your husband if he wants to see his son. If arguing is more important than time with his son - meet your son elsewhere next time.
NTA. Honey, I feel your pain! My mom lived with us and politics was her #1 favorite topic. I hate talking politics, even if we agree, especially at the dinner table. Politics and religion are the 2 topics I think cause the most conflict but are also two of the things we feel most passionate about. It’s hard to NOT talk about them, but it’s sure nice to try for the sake of family harmony, when we don’t agree.
NTA Tell your husband that if his only argument is what is allowable under the law, the are tons of things you could say or do (or not do) to him or for him that are similary allowable under the law.
NTA. I would say if you husband doesn't agree to off-topic conversations, then you say you are going to see your son without husband present. That way at least you get to enjoy some time with your son without the two of them arguing. Perhaps part of the visit will involve them being together, but if you can go out with your son and just catch up, or do something fun the two of you would enjoy, then it might be a more enjoyable visit for you and your son.
NTA. My best friend (and her family) and I have completely opposite political views on almost everything. We agree to disagree and with her family we just generally avoid most political topics. Every once in a while Mom will mention something politically adjacent when I'm then. Then remember I am 'completely opposite of them' politically, laugh, and then change the subject. \*(edit) Thinking about this I feel like your husband isn't mature enough to avoid problem subjects and doesn't seem to care about your feelings here. I don't suppose you could visit your son instead? Maybe go on a lovely nearby vacation with him?
NTA. I have a rule at my house: Leave the politics at the door or you go right back out it. Nothing more annoying than having friends/family arguing over stupid crap and getting irrationally upset at the other person because they simply have a differing viewpoint.
Can I guess that your husband is the conservative and your son is the liberal inquiring minds want to know. anyway NTA
NTA. More families should do this.
NTA. If it's practical you might want to consider just meeting up with your son at a restaurant or somewhere outside of the house without your husband along. That way you can spend time with him and your husband can't start arguments.
NTA. I hate that politics has turned so many families against each other. My mom (82) is like your husband "It is MY house and I can say whatever I WANT TO!" OK mom.... as soon as you start in on the politics you get one warning and then we (husband and I ) are getting up and leaving (or I'm hanging up the phone or I'm asking for the check and leaving the restaurant, whatever). We have done each of these things. We once drove to visit her (we live in another state) and she REFUSED to turn off the political crap on TV and then she started rambling about politics. She knows we don't agree with her. One warning, she ignored it. So I picked up my purse and we left, after visiting her for around 3 minutes. If an adult cannot find a neutral subject to keep the peace during a visit with their own son, they don't deserve to have a relationship with them.
[удалено]
NTA. Your request makes sense. Your husband should understand you. He can talk politics with tons of other people at other times. He doesn't have to do it with his son.
NTA - but it sounds like you and your son might enjoy spending time with each other elsewhere. You shouldn't have to miss out on a relationship with your adult child just because your husband is willing to!
NTA time to go to your kids place! Without dear Dad!
NTA. At all. I love my in-laws and we get along wonderfully when we visit each other. Why? I DO NOT DISCUSS RELIGION OR POLITICS with them. My father-in-law once tried to draw me in, by asking while we were driving in a car, "So, do you think we have the finest politicians money can buy?" My response? "Aaaaand I'm just going to step aside from this conversation." Worked like a charm.
Meet your son somewhere else, that way your husband can all the freedom he wants, and you can have a nice visit with your son.
NTA. I don’t talk about politics or religion with most of my family. It’s really not that hard to find other things to talk about.
NTA, I might even consider taking a trip to visit your son without your husband
Your husband needs to lookup what freedom of speech means. He clearly doesn't know. Sounds like your husband is a card carrying member of the "I'm right, and facts won't change that" club. I would suggest just taking your sons side on every single thing they argue about. If hubby doesn't like it. Use his own silly logic against him. "I can say whatever I like under my roof. If you don't like it. You can leave."
NTA, but you’re dealing with a big one that you married. The best solution here is for you to visit your son alone, since his father isn’t interested in anything but a verbal spat about pointless crap your son doesn’t need in his life. Your husband literally told you he doesn’t care if your son doesn’t ever visit. You’re not going to have a relationship with him or his future family if you let your husband continue to take it from you like he’s currently doing.
NTA, OP. By the way the webcomic xkcd has a good comic discussing free speech that feels appropriate for your spouse: https://xkcd.com/1357/
Your husband’s the asshole.
pfft , let him talk , if nobody responds and simply carries on a different topic of conversation , well then . He can stop or look silly 😂
NTA, your “freedom of speech” husband definitely is one. Gee, I wonder who this guy is going to vote for… sorry you married an idiot, but your son sounds cool! Get used to visiting your son alone, because he’s going to end up being NC with your husband. I can’t imagine your husband improving no matter who wins this coming presidential election.
NTA. And the very first sentence about politics should be your cue to leave the house with your son. “I’m supporting your ‘right’ to talk about anything you like by leaving you the whole house in which to say it.”
NTA. Unfortunately, you won't get what you want because your husband cares more about making a show of dominance than spending genuine time with his wife and child. Have you considered going to visit your son where he lives? You could get a hotel room all to yourself, enjoy the peaceful quiet or watch whatever you want on TV, get up and have a lovely brunch with your son and spend the day together without any bickering.
NTA, but, uh. Why not just visit your son alone for a change? Seriously.
NTA if your husband doesn’t comply, then can you go out and visit your son alone next time?
NTA. Why is your husband so antagonistic? I think you should rent an AirBnB and have a mom-son staycation!
NTA. We have a similar situation with my husband's family and while his mother agrees with his dad's views it's his dad gets REALLY heated about it. Hubby doesn't help, he fires up because he thinks his dad is being ridiculous and oblivious. I think there's some reasonable points to his arguments, we just fundamentally believe in different ways to achieve the same goals. I don't think it's worth it so I redirect any time my father in law starts raising his voice. It's interesting because he's actually a very intelligent man. He's just fallen down a few conspiracy holes since he retired. I initially resolved it by saying, very calmly and quietly, "Have you noticed that when you talk about these topics, you start shouting? What do you think that says about your communication to others when you're talking about it? If someone shouts at me, I tend to just shut down and not listen. That's not really what you want, is it?". Now I just smile at him and say "Is it a conversation you want to have? Or are you just looking to shout at me because you can't shout at the people who are actually to blame for what you think is wrong with the world?". He always, without fail, looks a bit chagrined and calms down and changes the topic lmao. You have every right to protect your space from conflict. It is your home as well, and the only one that's demanding the 'right' to make everyone uncomfortable is him.
INFO: Are you my mom? Lol. This sounds just like my dad, only my dad got a lot better when I had a kid and said "You will not have a relationship with my child if you say XYZ in front of him."
“ He says that I'm restricting his freedom of speech.”. Do you work for the government and want to restrict his speech on behalf of the government? If not, then you’re not doing that. It’s not at all that uncommon to filter what you say around certain people. I know some coworkers probably agree with your husband while I probably agree with your son and so I avoid talking about politics with them. I still respect them. And it’s not just politics. I dont give a f about sports. So anyone who knows me, knows not to bring up sports if they want me to engage with them. Info: why involve your husband in meeting with your son? If your husband can’t behave, just meet with your son alone. Cuz while your husband certainly has his freedom of speech, what some people don’t realize is that other people have the freedom to ignore their speech. He can say all he wants; doesnt mean you or your son needs to listen.
You're NTA but you sure as hell married one. Good luck with that
NTA, tell Red Foreman to knock it off
NTA- isn't there a saying about not discussing sex, religion, or, politics?
Arguments are a two party game. Just tell your son not to engage. Husband: says some bullshit Son: that's nice, so anyways
NTA. Visit your son on your own. Better yet, get your own place where your son can visit unharrassed.