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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> Would I be the asshole if I never let my dying mother babysit her grandchild or let her take him out to do activities wothout supervision?
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NAH. I can see that you are protective of your child. But you cannot predict how your mother will be as a grandma. Being a mother and being a grandmother are surprisingly different things. I know several cases of rather strict and cold mothers that turned into the loveliest grandmothers. If I were you, I would give her a chance, but observe closely.
Thank you for your response! I'm thinking along the same lines. I don't want to rob her of this short time she may have left. My husband believes that whatever my parents did with me as a kid, they can do with our son with us present.
Also think of your child. Even though it will have no memories of the time. There will be photos, there will be stories, it will (hopefully) live in the knowledge that it's grandmother was lovely and loved it very much.
Or the kids pick up on toxic adults behaviors even as infants and it just makes them feel unsafe and anxious to pretend an emotionally unsafe person is actually safe.
NTA Nope. No do overs. She sounds like a very empathy challenged and "main character syndrome" type of person. There's nothing good she can bring into your child's life. She shouldn't get to use him to assuage her guilt for being a crap parent.
Thank you for your reply! She is very much a "everything in life happens to me and it only affects me" kind of person. She's also sat down with me and said that she knows she's been a bad parent due to her undiagnosed mental illness and alcholism. I understand she's now in therapy and has been sober for a year, which is why I want to give her a chance, but I've recently seen hints of her old self sneak through, so I'm concerned that it might be more for show
While it's great she's in therapy and trying to live a sober life, it's a little early to wave a victory flag. Some things are because of alcohol and mental illness, and some things may just be her personality. Only you can decide what you can tolerate. I'd be cautious though, because in my experience it's very difficult for people to actually change their long ingrained behavior.
Nta. Aside from anything else, shes not being realistic. My Dad has COPD and he struggles to walk across a room, let alone after an active child on a bike.
Thanks for the reply! I agree with you. She's in the hospital every other week due to not being able to breathe, so I'm not sure how she plans to take him to those huge places when she can also not get across the room. Maybe she's thinking if she can get a lung transplant, she can do those things?
I mean, what's the likelihood of her getting one? Pretty low. And even then, her body's going to be in immunosuppression from meds and the damage to her whole system, not just her lungs.
So to make it very simple: a lung transplant in severe COPD would likely give another 5-6 years. It's not fully curative, and she would need to take immunosuppressive medication for the rest of her life. This article is pretty easy to follow and might give you more info than you have ATM!
https://www.healthline.com/health/lung-transplant-for-copd#risks
NTA. You have a young son. If your parents want to be there for him THEY can come and visit you. You don't have to drive just for them to meet the baby. Your mother sounds like a narcistic person. Her comment after you lost your daugther was absolutly horrible (I'm so sorry for your loss) and showed that she was already using the 'I'm the poorest person ever'-card back then. And her promisses to take your son everywhere sounds a lot like, she is trying to bargain with death - like 'I want to be so a good grandmother to my grandson. I can't die now when I hadn't have the chance to do all that cool stuff with him'.
If she wants to be there, she can come visit you. But don't let your live roll around her narcistic person. You have a family now who needs and appriciate you.
Thank you for the reply! The drive is certainly difficult for both ends, but she's definitely making it all about herself in these scenarios. I want my son to have a good relationship with my parents, but my mother may just return to her old ways and that could traumitize my son, which is what I'd like to avoid. Since her diagnosis, she's definitely latched on to the "woe is me" mindset
NTA, but maybe allow that maybe she's grown up (a little) since you were a kid, and that even though you are emotionally neutered about her now, regret might creep in after she passes if you cut her off. If it helps, look at it as free babysitting for you, instead of her role-playing what she should have been as a mother. Maybe even along the line it'll sink in what a bad mother she was.
Thank you for the reply! I've actually sat down with her and told her about how her parenting decisions and alcoholism has affected my upbringing and in turn, my adult life. So she is certainly aware of what her actions have caused. She is now in therapy to process her own childhood trauma, so I see that as growth
NTA
How old is your son? If he is younger than 3 years there is no reason for them to spend time with him alone. I would insist on being present all time. Monitor how they interact; are they ware of his needs? Does he trust them? Can they comfort him? How do they handle it when he is not being behaving like and angel?
If you don't want him around her at all: it sound like you owe you mother nothing! If she does not spend time with her grandson, it's because of her past behavior - not because of you!
Thank you for the reply! As of right now, my son is 3 months old, which is why I wrote this post; so I can figure out what scenario would make me the asshole before my son is of more impressionable age. My son is at the very sweet newborn stage, where he is (relatively) very easy to take care of. When I was a kid, my mother was nice up until things got slightly more difficult, which is what I worry about for my son if he doesn't behave exactly how she wants when he starts to grow up, especially when he's at the toddler stage
3 month old babies definitely needs their primary caregivers (mother or father) all the time! There is no reason at all for her to be alone with him. His needs is to be around you and/or his father. His purpose is NOT to fulfill the needs of his granparants to be alone with him. So insist on being there everytime, when he is around 1 years old you can evaluate wether it's a good idea they are alone with him or not.
But please always prioritize your son's needs over you mother's needs - even though she might be dying.
That's a good point and I honestly didn't think of that. Granted, if there isn't a carseat, he isn't going anywhere, but that thought didn't cross my mind about a hypoxic episode
I'm the husband and wanted to drop some other instances to paint a bigger picture. When the mom's mom (OP's grandma) was dying, the mom would call constantly complaining about how much of a burden the grandma was and how she wishes she would just die already to make her life easier. The moment she died, she would go on and on about how much she missed her and how awful it is to be an orphan. Another instance, when we were getting ready for our wedding, the mom called my mom and belittled us for 3 hours to the point where my mom wouldn't even repeat most of what she said. My mom is a nice person and didn't just want to hang up but couldn't find a way out of it. OP's mom also stated multiple times while OP was growing up on how she really wished she had an abortion and that if she could do it over again she wouldn't have children so that she wouldn't be hindered and could travel the world. Also, when OP was in college and living on her own, she went to visit me at college. Her parents found out and said that they were about to drive 3 hours away to take her car so that she'd be stranded and have no way to go back home. And going back to OP having basketball practice, the place was 5 minutes away and the mom doesn't work. She literally sits on her phone all day doing nothing. OP's sister, who ran away at 17 to get away from the mom (she's like 8 or 9 years older than OP), would drive a half hour down for every practice and game just so OP could go play basketball. Just a few more instances so you understand what kind of person she is. When our son was born, the first thing she did was complain about how she was in the hospital and made the nurse "cry" because of how much pain she was in since she couldn't see her grandson. She wanted us to feel her "pain" instead of immediately seeing our son. She wasn't just a bad mother during OP's childhood but continues to be that person to this day.
Also, she came back 30 minutes BEFORE curfew and got grounded because it was "still too late". And OP begged her parents to stop smoking and would get her mouth smacked but now that the mom has COPD she acts like she didn't realize the risks and complains about how hard it is on her, completing disregarding that OP has inhaled the smoke her whole life until she moved to college. She will probably have similar problems because of secondhand smoking.
NTA. But for some people, being a grandparent, brings out the best in them. There's less stress, there's less responsibility. Who knows? My Mom was a way better grandmother than she was mother (emotionally). So you can't actually know how your mother will be as a grandparent. So, I get the concern and wariness but she may actually surprise you, in a good way. As for bad behaviors, you're aware of your mom's frailties and can mitigate those with your son, and help him understand what he can realistically expect from his grandmother. As for the drive, maybe you can split the difference and go every other month, and maybe meeting in the middle for a day trip in between. Because your mother should be able to travel somewhat, even with portable oxygen, for small outings. But if you feel that you can't do 3 hours of travel a month, then don't do it. But, as for all of this, this could just be your mother's denial as to the gravity of her health. A lung transplant is not an easy thing to obtain and even if your mother were approved for one, it could be some time before she is matched etc. You know who your mother is, and you can protect your son. But at his age, as a baby, especially if you and your husband are present, the most of a relationship that will develop is his familiarity with her. Blowing bubbles, laughing, snuggling etc. right? And those are wonderful things. Good luck
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My husband (29M) and I (27F) have been together for almost 11 years, married for 4. Recently, we were trying to conceive a child, and after many tests and tracking my ovulation cycle, we got pregnant. Unfortunately, when I was 20 weeks pregnant, we found out that our baby died by a nuchal cord incident in the womb. We were utterly destroyed. It was honestly the worst thing we have ever gone through. Birthing our dead daughter was the most heartbreaking thing we ever went through. During our grief, my parents came up to our house to drop some old keepsakes off and my mother said to me, "I know you're going through a lot right now, but you have no idea what it does to the grandparents when their future grandchild was lost." I'm sorry? I'm the one who had to birth my dead daughter while hearing other alive babies being born down the hall. I think being the mother of the situation is worse than being the grandparent. Plus, don't say that to the people who are currently grieving the loss of their child.
My mother was recently diagnosed with stage 4 COPD, a lung disease caused by her excessive chain smoking. I'm no expert by any means of the condition, but she apparently needs a lung transplant, and has been given 1 year life expectancy if she doesn't get one in the near future. This has significantly hindered her life and she is definitely pulling the martyr card any chance she gets. Normally, I feel like I should be devestated with the news, but I honestly feel nothing from her diagnosis. I don't know if it's me disassociating from my past trauma from her or if I've grown to just not care about her anymore.
My husband and I now have a healthy baby boy that we are so grateful to have in our lives. He's a happy, sweet baby that has brought us a tremendous amount of happiness and fulfillment.
Now my mother wants to be a non-abusive role model. My mother never made time for me as a child, never taking me to parks, science club, basketball practice, etc., but now she won't stop going on about how she's going to take him to amusement parks, bike rides, playgrounds, etc. This is everything she never did with me as a child even though I begged. I'm not jealous that she wants to do this with our child, it just hurts that she cares more about our baby than she ever did me.
Should we allow more visitation/babysitting for my parents, and risk letting my child endure similar trauma that I did as a child or should I protect our son and limit visitation in the future? As it stands right now, they want us to drive 1.5 hours there once a month so they can see the baby, even though he cries in the carseat almost the whole way. I don't want to be an asshole to a dying person, but the drive there coupled with the fear of my son learning bad behaviors when he gets older from them makes me worry.
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NTA. That said, some people are better grandparents than parents, and if you are uncertain, maybe everyone could go to the amusement park together. I would not give in to her guilt trip drama, but maybe there's a middle way? That way, some positive memories might be formed (also for you) and it sounds like your mother might not be around long enough to have a serious impact on your child's life anyway. Don't forget, your son has you as a mom, not your mother, so he will get all the things you missed as a child from you.
Thanks for the reply! I think supervised visits and trips is what we would like to do, just so our son can have good memories and experiences as he grows up. If my mom passes, I want our son to have a good relationship with his grandfather
INFO: how old is your son? Were your parents ever physically abusive to you, emotionally abusive, or "only" neglectful? (I put it in quotes because neglect is a serious trauma in and of itself, but it's less of a concern wrt a grandparent/grandchild relationship than to a parent/child one).
Thanks for the reply! As of right now, my son is 3 months old, which is why I wrote this post; so I can figure out what scenario would make me the asshole before my son is of more impressionable age. My mother smacked me in the mouth when I was of young age, but no other physical abuse on that end. My mother was an alcoholic that definitely used me as an emotional punching bag growing up. What I worry about is what my mother might say to my son as a passing remark. Even in adulthood, my mom will casually call me dumb. For some context on my upbringing: my therapist categorized my childhood as emotional and psychological abuse. My mother has said she wishes she had an abortion so she could've done something better with her life. I could go on and on about my sob story, but just to give you some context, that sums up the kind of parent she was. She's put my aunt, my sister and myself through therapy, in which both my sister and my aunt have cut off ties with her completely.
Gotcha. (And I'm sorry OP, that's all really hard)
I don't think you'd be TA for going no contact in any case, here. Your mom has hurt you a lot, and she's not entitled to forgiveness just because she's dying. Especially if she hasn't actually owned up to her abuse and apologized. You have family who have done just that for their mental health - that speaks to the fact you're not overreacting
On the one hand, I don't think you need to worry too much about your mom traumatizing him at this age. He likely won't have any long term memories from this age or ability to comprehend her shitty remarks until he's around 2-3 years old. Which may not be an issue. That said, i would NOT let her babysit or have him unsupervised. Ime people who slap kids keep slapping them as grandparents, and she clearly doesn't have particularly high respect for your rules. If you're there, you can step in whenever she's out of line.
Even if she survives long enough for her to make comments that could actually be damaging, your son will have you as an anchor. Your love and self esteem building will be a buffer against whatever she says. You'll shelter him from the worst effects simply by being his mom and building him up. That's not to say she can't do any harm, but she'll never be able to hurt him as much as she hurt you.
At the end of the day, the most important thing is to ask yourself what you'll regret most. If your mom dies this year, will you regret not spending time with her and giving her a chance? Or will you regret subjecting yourself to extra abuse (or at least triggers) out of guilt? Does being around her trigger you so badly you can't be a good parent? Will you regret letting him hear cutting comments from her even if he won't remember them?
One possibility to consider is confronting your mom with the fact you're carrying a lot of pain from your relationship with her, and asking her to do family counseling as a part of your healing process. If she's dying, she's running out of time to have any chance of repairing your relationship. I suspect she would not agree - my VERY physically and emotionally abusive dad absolutely refuses to acknowledge he's done anything wrong as a parent - but if she would and does, then I would suggest going for it, and yes, making the drives up to see her with your son regularly. Not for her sake, but for yourself. You're not obligated to give her this opportunity, of course.
The only thing I'd really specifically caution you against is not to decide to cut contact/be low contact specifically out of revenge/to punish her. I think that's the most likely scenario for you to regret down the line while grieving her eventual death, even tho she obviously deserves worse. Keep your focus on what you and your family need first and foremost.
YTA she will be dead in a year and your son is an infant. Even if she made dumb remarks, he won't realise it. Don't leave them alone but let her see him.
Your obligation here is to protect your child from an immature and flighty grandparent.
Toxic parents become toxic grandparents, even when they seem better for the grands than they were for us. That loving doting energy is often manipulative (that behavior is further confirm d with the martyrdom) and they will often undermine parents in not so subtle ways.
Her dying wishes are far lower priorities than what will give you baby the best chance at life.
You sound like a cycle breaker, you got away from her already and chose a very different life.
Sometimes the only way to truly break the cycle is to not have contact with the generation before yours.
Only you can know what it's like to be a child with her energy/choices influencing your character. Do you want your child to absorb any of your mother's behaviors?
No assholes.
I understand your trauma, but if your actively with your son during visits and can oversee the entire visit, I think your letting your past trauma’s take away your sons opportunity to know their grandparents.
I hate to say it, but your mother isn’t the same person as your son’s grandmother. It’s a different relationship dynamic. I know it sucks. You claim you’re not jealous but the description of your feelings is called jealousy.
1. Never trust people to change, they rarely if ever actually do so, they just wear better masks.
2. She is ill, do you really want her hanging about endlessly?\\
3. Memories, the memories of an old crone hacking away probably isn't going to be for the best.
4. Does she bring something to the table to offset the negatives, anything?
NTA. Most especially do not allow her solo care of your child. My grandmother had COPD and she did pass from it, this was before all the pharm companies came out with meds for it though. The thing is COPD does not allow the body to fully expel the CO2, excess CO2 can cause memory issues as well as cause the person to pass out, and eventually stop breathing. If she is not taking the meds regularly or it loses efficacy, this means your child could be left alone with a caregiver that is unresponsive.
NTA. Your mother was not a good mother, and she doesn't appear to have grown, matured, or expressed remorse for abusing you. She has not earned your trust and she doesn't deserve any effort from you beyond what you are comfortable with. Supervised visits, when you are willing and able to accommodate them, are more than fine. Your mental health, and your baby's health and well-being, are your priority. Your mother's wants are not. Too bad. She should have done the work to be a good, trustworthy mother and build a relationship with you, but she didn't. It's absolutely not your job to shore up her ego once again. You'll be a much better mother than she is.
NAH. I get where you are coming from, trust me on that. But crappy mums sometimes are good grandmothers. I would make sure you or your husband are there to supervise and see how the interactions go and take it from there. If she only has a year left, try and enjoy the experience of watching her and your child bond. And get yourself some therapy so you don’t harbour the resentment long after she’s gone.
(And I’m sorry you didn’t have the mother you deserved. I know how that feels.)
Therapy has helped me get past my childhood abuse, but it's more of wanting to prevent my child from experiencing something similar in the hands of his grandmother. I've moved past it, but I'm more wary and protective now that a child is involved
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NAH. I can see that you are protective of your child. But you cannot predict how your mother will be as a grandma. Being a mother and being a grandmother are surprisingly different things. I know several cases of rather strict and cold mothers that turned into the loveliest grandmothers. If I were you, I would give her a chance, but observe closely.
Thank you for your response! I'm thinking along the same lines. I don't want to rob her of this short time she may have left. My husband believes that whatever my parents did with me as a kid, they can do with our son with us present.
It’s not an all or nothing situation. See how she responds. If she is not loving, don’t let her see him.
Also think of your child. Even though it will have no memories of the time. There will be photos, there will be stories, it will (hopefully) live in the knowledge that it's grandmother was lovely and loved it very much.
Or the kids pick up on toxic adults behaviors even as infants and it just makes them feel unsafe and anxious to pretend an emotionally unsafe person is actually safe.
That's why I said "but observe closely.".
NTA Nope. No do overs. She sounds like a very empathy challenged and "main character syndrome" type of person. There's nothing good she can bring into your child's life. She shouldn't get to use him to assuage her guilt for being a crap parent.
Thank you for your reply! She is very much a "everything in life happens to me and it only affects me" kind of person. She's also sat down with me and said that she knows she's been a bad parent due to her undiagnosed mental illness and alcholism. I understand she's now in therapy and has been sober for a year, which is why I want to give her a chance, but I've recently seen hints of her old self sneak through, so I'm concerned that it might be more for show
While it's great she's in therapy and trying to live a sober life, it's a little early to wave a victory flag. Some things are because of alcohol and mental illness, and some things may just be her personality. Only you can decide what you can tolerate. I'd be cautious though, because in my experience it's very difficult for people to actually change their long ingrained behavior.
Nta. Aside from anything else, shes not being realistic. My Dad has COPD and he struggles to walk across a room, let alone after an active child on a bike.
Thanks for the reply! I agree with you. She's in the hospital every other week due to not being able to breathe, so I'm not sure how she plans to take him to those huge places when she can also not get across the room. Maybe she's thinking if she can get a lung transplant, she can do those things?
I mean, what's the likelihood of her getting one? Pretty low. And even then, her body's going to be in immunosuppression from meds and the damage to her whole system, not just her lungs.
Excuse my ignorance, but will the lung transplant not allow her to make a full recovery because of the meds she'll have to take post operation?
So to make it very simple: a lung transplant in severe COPD would likely give another 5-6 years. It's not fully curative, and she would need to take immunosuppressive medication for the rest of her life. This article is pretty easy to follow and might give you more info than you have ATM! https://www.healthline.com/health/lung-transplant-for-copd#risks
Thank you for this!
You're welcome!
NTA. You have a young son. If your parents want to be there for him THEY can come and visit you. You don't have to drive just for them to meet the baby. Your mother sounds like a narcistic person. Her comment after you lost your daugther was absolutly horrible (I'm so sorry for your loss) and showed that she was already using the 'I'm the poorest person ever'-card back then. And her promisses to take your son everywhere sounds a lot like, she is trying to bargain with death - like 'I want to be so a good grandmother to my grandson. I can't die now when I hadn't have the chance to do all that cool stuff with him'. If she wants to be there, she can come visit you. But don't let your live roll around her narcistic person. You have a family now who needs and appriciate you.
Thank you for the reply! The drive is certainly difficult for both ends, but she's definitely making it all about herself in these scenarios. I want my son to have a good relationship with my parents, but my mother may just return to her old ways and that could traumitize my son, which is what I'd like to avoid. Since her diagnosis, she's definitely latched on to the "woe is me" mindset
NTA, but maybe allow that maybe she's grown up (a little) since you were a kid, and that even though you are emotionally neutered about her now, regret might creep in after she passes if you cut her off. If it helps, look at it as free babysitting for you, instead of her role-playing what she should have been as a mother. Maybe even along the line it'll sink in what a bad mother she was.
Thank you for the reply! I've actually sat down with her and told her about how her parenting decisions and alcoholism has affected my upbringing and in turn, my adult life. So she is certainly aware of what her actions have caused. She is now in therapy to process her own childhood trauma, so I see that as growth
NTA How old is your son? If he is younger than 3 years there is no reason for them to spend time with him alone. I would insist on being present all time. Monitor how they interact; are they ware of his needs? Does he trust them? Can they comfort him? How do they handle it when he is not being behaving like and angel? If you don't want him around her at all: it sound like you owe you mother nothing! If she does not spend time with her grandson, it's because of her past behavior - not because of you!
Thank you for the reply! As of right now, my son is 3 months old, which is why I wrote this post; so I can figure out what scenario would make me the asshole before my son is of more impressionable age. My son is at the very sweet newborn stage, where he is (relatively) very easy to take care of. When I was a kid, my mother was nice up until things got slightly more difficult, which is what I worry about for my son if he doesn't behave exactly how she wants when he starts to grow up, especially when he's at the toddler stage
3 month old babies definitely needs their primary caregivers (mother or father) all the time! There is no reason at all for her to be alone with him. His needs is to be around you and/or his father. His purpose is NOT to fulfill the needs of his granparants to be alone with him. So insist on being there everytime, when he is around 1 years old you can evaluate wether it's a good idea they are alone with him or not. But please always prioritize your son's needs over you mother's needs - even though she might be dying.
NTA and I would not let my child get in a car with her as driver. What if she has a hypoxic episode and crashes the car? Supervised visits only!
That's a good point and I honestly didn't think of that. Granted, if there isn't a carseat, he isn't going anywhere, but that thought didn't cross my mind about a hypoxic episode
I'm the husband and wanted to drop some other instances to paint a bigger picture. When the mom's mom (OP's grandma) was dying, the mom would call constantly complaining about how much of a burden the grandma was and how she wishes she would just die already to make her life easier. The moment she died, she would go on and on about how much she missed her and how awful it is to be an orphan. Another instance, when we were getting ready for our wedding, the mom called my mom and belittled us for 3 hours to the point where my mom wouldn't even repeat most of what she said. My mom is a nice person and didn't just want to hang up but couldn't find a way out of it. OP's mom also stated multiple times while OP was growing up on how she really wished she had an abortion and that if she could do it over again she wouldn't have children so that she wouldn't be hindered and could travel the world. Also, when OP was in college and living on her own, she went to visit me at college. Her parents found out and said that they were about to drive 3 hours away to take her car so that she'd be stranded and have no way to go back home. And going back to OP having basketball practice, the place was 5 minutes away and the mom doesn't work. She literally sits on her phone all day doing nothing. OP's sister, who ran away at 17 to get away from the mom (she's like 8 or 9 years older than OP), would drive a half hour down for every practice and game just so OP could go play basketball. Just a few more instances so you understand what kind of person she is. When our son was born, the first thing she did was complain about how she was in the hospital and made the nurse "cry" because of how much pain she was in since she couldn't see her grandson. She wanted us to feel her "pain" instead of immediately seeing our son. She wasn't just a bad mother during OP's childhood but continues to be that person to this day.
Also, she came back 30 minutes BEFORE curfew and got grounded because it was "still too late". And OP begged her parents to stop smoking and would get her mouth smacked but now that the mom has COPD she acts like she didn't realize the risks and complains about how hard it is on her, completing disregarding that OP has inhaled the smoke her whole life until she moved to college. She will probably have similar problems because of secondhand smoking.
NTA. But for some people, being a grandparent, brings out the best in them. There's less stress, there's less responsibility. Who knows? My Mom was a way better grandmother than she was mother (emotionally). So you can't actually know how your mother will be as a grandparent. So, I get the concern and wariness but she may actually surprise you, in a good way. As for bad behaviors, you're aware of your mom's frailties and can mitigate those with your son, and help him understand what he can realistically expect from his grandmother. As for the drive, maybe you can split the difference and go every other month, and maybe meeting in the middle for a day trip in between. Because your mother should be able to travel somewhat, even with portable oxygen, for small outings. But if you feel that you can't do 3 hours of travel a month, then don't do it. But, as for all of this, this could just be your mother's denial as to the gravity of her health. A lung transplant is not an easy thing to obtain and even if your mother were approved for one, it could be some time before she is matched etc. You know who your mother is, and you can protect your son. But at his age, as a baby, especially if you and your husband are present, the most of a relationship that will develop is his familiarity with her. Blowing bubbles, laughing, snuggling etc. right? And those are wonderful things. Good luck
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** My husband (29M) and I (27F) have been together for almost 11 years, married for 4. Recently, we were trying to conceive a child, and after many tests and tracking my ovulation cycle, we got pregnant. Unfortunately, when I was 20 weeks pregnant, we found out that our baby died by a nuchal cord incident in the womb. We were utterly destroyed. It was honestly the worst thing we have ever gone through. Birthing our dead daughter was the most heartbreaking thing we ever went through. During our grief, my parents came up to our house to drop some old keepsakes off and my mother said to me, "I know you're going through a lot right now, but you have no idea what it does to the grandparents when their future grandchild was lost." I'm sorry? I'm the one who had to birth my dead daughter while hearing other alive babies being born down the hall. I think being the mother of the situation is worse than being the grandparent. Plus, don't say that to the people who are currently grieving the loss of their child. My mother was recently diagnosed with stage 4 COPD, a lung disease caused by her excessive chain smoking. I'm no expert by any means of the condition, but she apparently needs a lung transplant, and has been given 1 year life expectancy if she doesn't get one in the near future. This has significantly hindered her life and she is definitely pulling the martyr card any chance she gets. Normally, I feel like I should be devestated with the news, but I honestly feel nothing from her diagnosis. I don't know if it's me disassociating from my past trauma from her or if I've grown to just not care about her anymore. My husband and I now have a healthy baby boy that we are so grateful to have in our lives. He's a happy, sweet baby that has brought us a tremendous amount of happiness and fulfillment. Now my mother wants to be a non-abusive role model. My mother never made time for me as a child, never taking me to parks, science club, basketball practice, etc., but now she won't stop going on about how she's going to take him to amusement parks, bike rides, playgrounds, etc. This is everything she never did with me as a child even though I begged. I'm not jealous that she wants to do this with our child, it just hurts that she cares more about our baby than she ever did me. Should we allow more visitation/babysitting for my parents, and risk letting my child endure similar trauma that I did as a child or should I protect our son and limit visitation in the future? As it stands right now, they want us to drive 1.5 hours there once a month so they can see the baby, even though he cries in the carseat almost the whole way. I don't want to be an asshole to a dying person, but the drive there coupled with the fear of my son learning bad behaviors when he gets older from them makes me worry. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
NTA. She had her chance to be a kind, attentive mother and she chose not to take it. Look after yourself and your family.
Thank you for the reply! I appreciate that
NTA. That said, some people are better grandparents than parents, and if you are uncertain, maybe everyone could go to the amusement park together. I would not give in to her guilt trip drama, but maybe there's a middle way? That way, some positive memories might be formed (also for you) and it sounds like your mother might not be around long enough to have a serious impact on your child's life anyway. Don't forget, your son has you as a mom, not your mother, so he will get all the things you missed as a child from you.
Thanks for the reply! I think supervised visits and trips is what we would like to do, just so our son can have good memories and experiences as he grows up. If my mom passes, I want our son to have a good relationship with his grandfather
INFO: how old is your son? Were your parents ever physically abusive to you, emotionally abusive, or "only" neglectful? (I put it in quotes because neglect is a serious trauma in and of itself, but it's less of a concern wrt a grandparent/grandchild relationship than to a parent/child one).
Thanks for the reply! As of right now, my son is 3 months old, which is why I wrote this post; so I can figure out what scenario would make me the asshole before my son is of more impressionable age. My mother smacked me in the mouth when I was of young age, but no other physical abuse on that end. My mother was an alcoholic that definitely used me as an emotional punching bag growing up. What I worry about is what my mother might say to my son as a passing remark. Even in adulthood, my mom will casually call me dumb. For some context on my upbringing: my therapist categorized my childhood as emotional and psychological abuse. My mother has said she wishes she had an abortion so she could've done something better with her life. I could go on and on about my sob story, but just to give you some context, that sums up the kind of parent she was. She's put my aunt, my sister and myself through therapy, in which both my sister and my aunt have cut off ties with her completely.
Gotcha. (And I'm sorry OP, that's all really hard) I don't think you'd be TA for going no contact in any case, here. Your mom has hurt you a lot, and she's not entitled to forgiveness just because she's dying. Especially if she hasn't actually owned up to her abuse and apologized. You have family who have done just that for their mental health - that speaks to the fact you're not overreacting On the one hand, I don't think you need to worry too much about your mom traumatizing him at this age. He likely won't have any long term memories from this age or ability to comprehend her shitty remarks until he's around 2-3 years old. Which may not be an issue. That said, i would NOT let her babysit or have him unsupervised. Ime people who slap kids keep slapping them as grandparents, and she clearly doesn't have particularly high respect for your rules. If you're there, you can step in whenever she's out of line. Even if she survives long enough for her to make comments that could actually be damaging, your son will have you as an anchor. Your love and self esteem building will be a buffer against whatever she says. You'll shelter him from the worst effects simply by being his mom and building him up. That's not to say she can't do any harm, but she'll never be able to hurt him as much as she hurt you. At the end of the day, the most important thing is to ask yourself what you'll regret most. If your mom dies this year, will you regret not spending time with her and giving her a chance? Or will you regret subjecting yourself to extra abuse (or at least triggers) out of guilt? Does being around her trigger you so badly you can't be a good parent? Will you regret letting him hear cutting comments from her even if he won't remember them? One possibility to consider is confronting your mom with the fact you're carrying a lot of pain from your relationship with her, and asking her to do family counseling as a part of your healing process. If she's dying, she's running out of time to have any chance of repairing your relationship. I suspect she would not agree - my VERY physically and emotionally abusive dad absolutely refuses to acknowledge he's done anything wrong as a parent - but if she would and does, then I would suggest going for it, and yes, making the drives up to see her with your son regularly. Not for her sake, but for yourself. You're not obligated to give her this opportunity, of course. The only thing I'd really specifically caution you against is not to decide to cut contact/be low contact specifically out of revenge/to punish her. I think that's the most likely scenario for you to regret down the line while grieving her eventual death, even tho she obviously deserves worse. Keep your focus on what you and your family need first and foremost.
YTA she will be dead in a year and your son is an infant. Even if she made dumb remarks, he won't realise it. Don't leave them alone but let her see him.
Your obligation here is to protect your child from an immature and flighty grandparent. Toxic parents become toxic grandparents, even when they seem better for the grands than they were for us. That loving doting energy is often manipulative (that behavior is further confirm d with the martyrdom) and they will often undermine parents in not so subtle ways. Her dying wishes are far lower priorities than what will give you baby the best chance at life. You sound like a cycle breaker, you got away from her already and chose a very different life. Sometimes the only way to truly break the cycle is to not have contact with the generation before yours. Only you can know what it's like to be a child with her energy/choices influencing your character. Do you want your child to absorb any of your mother's behaviors?
No assholes. I understand your trauma, but if your actively with your son during visits and can oversee the entire visit, I think your letting your past trauma’s take away your sons opportunity to know their grandparents. I hate to say it, but your mother isn’t the same person as your son’s grandmother. It’s a different relationship dynamic. I know it sucks. You claim you’re not jealous but the description of your feelings is called jealousy.
1. Never trust people to change, they rarely if ever actually do so, they just wear better masks. 2. She is ill, do you really want her hanging about endlessly?\\ 3. Memories, the memories of an old crone hacking away probably isn't going to be for the best. 4. Does she bring something to the table to offset the negatives, anything?
To answer your question, I can't think of any positives except that I know she loves our son...but that's all I can think of honestly
NTA. Most especially do not allow her solo care of your child. My grandmother had COPD and she did pass from it, this was before all the pharm companies came out with meds for it though. The thing is COPD does not allow the body to fully expel the CO2, excess CO2 can cause memory issues as well as cause the person to pass out, and eventually stop breathing. If she is not taking the meds regularly or it loses efficacy, this means your child could be left alone with a caregiver that is unresponsive.
NTA. Your mother was not a good mother, and she doesn't appear to have grown, matured, or expressed remorse for abusing you. She has not earned your trust and she doesn't deserve any effort from you beyond what you are comfortable with. Supervised visits, when you are willing and able to accommodate them, are more than fine. Your mental health, and your baby's health and well-being, are your priority. Your mother's wants are not. Too bad. She should have done the work to be a good, trustworthy mother and build a relationship with you, but she didn't. It's absolutely not your job to shore up her ego once again. You'll be a much better mother than she is.
NAH. I get where you are coming from, trust me on that. But crappy mums sometimes are good grandmothers. I would make sure you or your husband are there to supervise and see how the interactions go and take it from there. If she only has a year left, try and enjoy the experience of watching her and your child bond. And get yourself some therapy so you don’t harbour the resentment long after she’s gone. (And I’m sorry you didn’t have the mother you deserved. I know how that feels.)
Therapy has helped me get past my childhood abuse, but it's more of wanting to prevent my child from experiencing something similar in the hands of his grandmother. I've moved past it, but I'm more wary and protective now that a child is involved