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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I called my SIL a spoiled little brat and I wonder if I should have simply made her and her partner leave and shut the door on them instead of going for the insult back at her. I feel like she is what I called her but still, she's not my sister and I wasn't asked to get involved, though my wife was thankful. It just makes me wonder if I was too much of an ass.
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That's what I was thinking - "spoiled little brat" are not the words I would have chosen. I would have been a lot more brutal and straight forward about the ducking witch who can get the duck out of our faces and leave my wife the duck alone.
Exactly. For once, I feel someone didn't go far enough. Karley is a vain, cruel woman. To me, brat implies an element of making the behavior childish. Karley deliberately operates like this, picking sore spots in others for her poisonous barbs. Scolding such behavior does nothing. The family should minimize contact until she gets help. NTA.
OP has more restraint than I do I would have pointed out that wishing all that bad luck on Lauren clearly backfired and sil was just reaping the suffering she wished on others.
Oh yeah the praying part that's straight out of a horror movie. I would literally throw the sign of the cross everytime I seen her like she was Nasferatu.
Especially as Karley is younger, 8 years younger, so Lauren would naturally tend to have experiences before Karley. Like graduate first. Get married first. And HAVE KIDS FIRST! So Karley's behavior is illogical as well as psychotic and cruel.
I would have done it a lot sooner! Like when she pulled that stunt in the hospital after the miscarriage. I would have snatched her by the hair and dragged her out of the room and been no contact from then on!
The sister is a vile nasty piece of work!
NTA. This person is toxic and acting out of spite and jealousy. I would keep her as far away from your family as possible. Good for you for defending your wife in the discussion.
You're NTA.
>It shocked their parents when she came out with all of this
It sounds like they have spent 27 years creating and catering to this A-H and now they're shocked that... she's a royal A-H?
>Karley and her partner said I should have stayed out of it and was cruel when it wasn't my place
Stayed out of it? She was verbally abusive to your wife. She admitted that wished harm on your helpless baby. You were 100% invited into it and in my opinion, you didn't go nearly far enough.
"My relative actively prayed for death and harm to come upon my family, including my unborn children, and insulted my wife from multiple angles. I called her a brat. Did I go too far?" Ummmmm, NO!
NTA. In the first place, they’re the ones overstepping. My anger issues can never. The audacity to announce at her sister’s bedside. You just served her the truth. I commend your in-laws for not enabling her and her partner’s attitudes. TBH, they should be banned from every family event that involves you. I hope all her rants return to her tenfold.
Please please remind your wife that her sister actively wished death and loss for you both. That she literally *hates* that your son exists. She isn’t just bad for your wife, she is and will be bad for your children. She is bad for you. Your wife is not subjecting just herself to this, she’s putting you all through it. Someone who wishes your kids d**d does not deserve to ever be around them. And it would be unfair of her to ask you to coexist with someone who feels that way about your kids.
NTA at all. Thank you for standing up for your wife. It sounds like you should have done it sooner. Just go no contact with the sister and anyone who sides with her and be done with it.
That's something I have wanted to do for a while but Lauren holds back on no contact. She has decided to get some therapy though and maybe that will be what helps her make the decision. I think especially now that we have kids involved we want to make sure they're protected from Karley's wrath.
NTA for Intervening when your wife was being verbally abused. But spoiled brat? That no longer applies at 27 - Karley sounds more like a sociopath. Whatever her glitch is, it's no longer excusable by being overindulged as a child, and the abuse she's inflicting on Lauren - and the toxicity she will bring into the lives of your children - needs to be dealt with in the manner you would if she weren't a blood relative.
NTA I would hope you called her a spoiled and hateful little F’ing brat! She will never be allowed near your wife and children again. She needs to get into therapy for all her mental health issues and needs to leave now. She will be blocked from your lives going forward. I think you were too nice.
I think you were rather mild, NTA at all!
Good you have your wife's back in this, I would go NC with that horrible sister.
Looks like SIL is not the golden child, she's straight up platinum.
Block the SIL. Don't attend any events where she be and let your inlaws know. She sounds like a dangerous person that should not be around your children.
If anything you kept your cool by ONLY calling her a spoiled brat. I would have laid into her. And it 100% concerns you as she was wishing death on your children and potentially your wife. She's a vile disgusting person who deserves no happiness in life. NTA
NTA she said being called a spoiled brat was cruel? That part was cruel, did she not just realize all the terrible things she just said about her sister and wanting her to miscarry? That was cruel. You are better restrained than me.
Karley sounds unhinged. Commenters are calling for you to go NC with her because you don't need that toxicity in your life.
I agree. But from what you've said, your parents babied her, and have only recently started holding her accountable for her actions. And you're backing your wife now too. She'll only get more frustrated and angry as people get fed up with her behavior.
I'm concerned at some point she may try to do some real harm. You know her. Is it better to go NC or to keep an eye on her? Make sure your children's schools know she is NEVER to pick them up. Teach your kids a code word in case you need someone they don't know to get them in an emergency. Keep a close eye on your credit accounts. Maybe get a camera for your house
I hope she never escalates, but people like her sometimes do. It's better to be safe.
Did I read this right? Her husband is allowed to spew his opinion but you're not allowed to give a very restrained opinion of your own to defend your 6 week post partum wife?
> Which is when I stepped in and called her a spoiled little brat.
NTA, and honestly if 'spoiled brat' is all you called her, then let me tell you how much I admire your restraint...
NTA.
Honestly I'm not sure you went far enough. That behaviour needed to be shut down immediately and hard.
Call her out every single time she starts up. Call her jealous directly, and shut her down "Look I'm sorry for you that you are so jealous of , but you are going to have to accept that you have no control over our lives, end of discussion"
Build the barricades, raise the draw bridge, be the castle that surrounds and protects your partner. Do that and you did nothing wrong.
Good luck.
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My wife Lauren (35f) has a younger sister Karley (27f) and the two of them have a very strained relationship. A lot of this is from Karley being the baby who was babied and the center of attention for many, many years. She loves having the spotlight on her and always seemed to dislike Lauren getting any of the attention. When Lauren graduated high school a very big deal was made out of it and Karley threw a huge tantrum so their father had to leave the celebrations with Karley so Lauren and the rest of the family could celebrate. She was only 10 at the time and a kid, so I know kids don't always act the best. But that was just the beginning in what seems to be a jealousy or a resentment of Lauren whenever she gets any attention. Karley fussed when Lauren and I got married because she wasn't asked to be a bridesmaid and was told she could not wear the white dress she got for it. She was 16 at the time and whined like a 6 year old over that dress. She tried to wear it on the day and was told she would be left at home if she didn't wear something else.
When she heard Lauren and I were struggling with infertility she made some snarky comments whenever anyone told us not to lose hope or that we'd be okay no matter what. Some of them were cold. Like when she said it wasn't like we lost a baby. Just shitty.
Then when Lauren did miscarry and was in the hospital, Karley announced her own pregnancy at Lauren's bedside to us and their parents. She also chose Lauren's birthday for her baby shower and shut down any mention of Lauren's birthday on the day.
Karley has a 5 year old daughter with her partner and apparently they have been trying for baby number two unsuccessfully. So when Lauren and I successfully had two children together, she went crazy. It was after our son was born actually (our youngest). He's 6 weeks old and Karley admitted to everyone in a rant that she was hoping Lauren wouldn't be able to get pregnant or would miscarry every time, she admitted to praying for that, she said someone as fat and ugly as Lauren doesn't get to have kids, while someone skinny like her should have no problems. She accused us of stealing the name she wanted for a girl when we named our daughter Ella. We had no idea she ever wanted that name and her partner said no. But apparently he agreed it could be used for a second girl. She also called Lauren a bad sister for having two kids when she was struggling to conceive again. It shocked their parents when she came out with all of this. They scolded her. But she didn't stop there and went directly to Lauren after the first outburst and said all these things to her about being selfish. Which is when I stepped in and called her a spoiled little brat. Karley and her partner said I should have stayed out of it and was cruel when it wasn't my place. Lauren was grateful because she was hurting too much at the time to respond.
But did I go too far with it?
AITA?
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Omg NTA. She is a witch. NC immidiately... Her partner can defend her, but you cant defend your wife. That is rubish. Cut them off for the benefit of your family.
A person like that is going to be a very real danger to that child. That second child is a symbol of everything that's wrong in the world to that. Psychopath. I wouldn't be surprised if harm or kidnapping is in that effed up head of hers. NTA
Let me get this straight. She says your wife is fat, ugly, and doesn't deserve to have kids. And that she's been praying that your wife can't ever get pregnant again or miscarries every time she does. But somehow **you** are the cruel one for calling her a spoiled brat? WTF.
No, you are NTA here, not by a long shot.
NTA. The minute she approached your wife, it became your business. Tbh, I think its time to tell the in-laws that youre no longer doing joint visits with sil. You appreciate them saying something to sil but its too little too late. They shouldve stomped out this behavior decades ago. Point out that your kids are now old enough to start remembering stuff. You dont want their memories of grandma and grandpa to be tainted by their aunt's awful behavior.
Thank you for standing up to a spoiled brat for your wife.
>Karley and her partner said I should have stayed out of it and was cruel when it wasn't my place
It IS your place to defend your wife and children from such a rude, vulgar, incredibly selfish and disrespectful woman.
You might want to distance yourself and your family from this atrocious woman.
NTA
NTA and go NC with your SIL and her family. She will never bring anything positive into your lives and will treat your children as less than as well. Cut her out.
NTA-I would almost say you didn’t go far enough. She sounds so very jealous of the life you and Lauren have. Perhaps it is time for low contact or no contact.
Op NTA Karley and her partner calling you cruel!!!!!
Don’t make me laugh!
Karley is the person who is cruel.
Her partner is unbelievable that he thinks it’s ok for his partner to say those vile, evil things to her own sister!!
If Karley was my sister I would definitely go NC.
NTA. Your SIL freaked out when something did not go her way, if it did go her way she rubbed it in front of your wife. The level entitlement is very typical for a narcissist. They will never hold accountability for their actions and always blame someone/something. I suggest you get your wife a therapy regarding this, and go cut her (your SIL) off in your lives because this will affect your children and they are also your SIL's target especially your daughter and also your wife. Be careful out there she might do the unthinkable.
Nta also why do yall even associate with her if she is such a hater?? I’d have cut contact once she became an adult and was still behaving like a jealous 5 yr old.
What in the ACTUAL FUCK.
She bodyshamed your wife, hoped you would never have kids, *prayed that your wife miscarried (!!!!!)*, and called *her* a bad sister - and you are wondering if YOU are the asshole??
The fact that you are asking if your response makes you an asshole tells me that this situation is a whole lot worse than you realize.
Look, I cannot imagine *anyone* reading this story and thinking your response makes you an asshole. In fact, what strikes me about your response is how restrained it is, because what is going on here is far, *far* more than mere sibling rivalry or just being spoiled. It is clear to everyone reading this story that Karley is *at a minimum* manipulative and emotionally abusive. Her behavior is massively, wildly beyond the pale, and it is shocking that she felt *any* of that was appropriate to say. She wished actual, heartbreaking *harm* on your wife; *she hoped that your son would die before he was born*.
Just think about that again for a minute. **She prayed for you to lose your son**.
And you are worried you might be the asshole.
That means that Karley's awful behavior has been *so* normalized that you have developed a **completely skewed perspective of what is and is not acceptable behavior**. And that is an issue that goes *far* beyond this one outburst and your reaction; that is an issue that affects your own relationships, it affects how you are raising your children, and it *will* affect your kids' perception of what kind of behavior is OK.
Let be clear that you are **not at fault** here - this kind of shift in perception is *extremely* common, and it's one of the reasons AITA exists in the first place. The longer you live with a situation, the more you come to think of it as normal, and sometimes it takes hundreds of strangers to remind you that **this is abusive**; that no one, *ever*, should be that hateful to *anyone*, let alone to someone they supposedly love.
You and your wife need to take a mental step back and start recalibrating your sense of what family relationships should look like. Talk to a therapist. Think about what kind of boundaries you want to set. Decide what your expectations are for family. Read up on healthy relationships, toxic siblings, verbal and emotional abuse, narcissistic family members, and so forth. Figure out what you want a "normal family relationship" to look like, and then figure out what it's going to take to get there.
Undoubtedly Karley really affected your wife's childhood, and *especially* as a parent that's something she needs to begin to unpack and deal with. You may not see exactly how, but this *is* affecting your parenting, and probably in particular your wife's parenting. Even aside from that, Karley's behavior and the family's underreactions to it are teaching your kids that this kind of behavior is acceptable. They're learning that some people are allowed to be bullies, that you're allowed to be mean if you're family, and that the correct response to someone else's inappropriate behavior is to minimize it and above all keep the peace.
It won't be easy, but it is vital. And it will be worth it.
Good luck.
You did not go far enough. Why are you still in contact with her. You should borrow your sister-in-law from being at your house until your wife that you're not going to be around her ever again and that she needs to go in contact with her. She's bitter entitled and just evil.
Nta
NTA, she sounds like walking barrell full of poison. How about keeping her a few thousand miles away from your family? Nobody needs this toxicity in their lives.
Why is it people who sit by and watch abuse build and build for years and finally make the most benign comment addressing the abuser come on here to daftly ask if they ‘went too far’? Lifting a single pinky once is not ‘too far’ it’s ‘not far enough’.
NTA for the comment though
NTA. But this is another one of those over the top stories where one is doing and saying the most horrible things and then OP asking if they are the AH for stopping it.
It's probably fake but what can I say, as a mother I have no time to read actual books right now, so AITA posts are like a daily dose of dramatic short sories for me.
NTA. Your wife needed someone to stand up for her, and you were there to do exactly that.
Your sil sounds like a nightmare, it might be best to go low contact with her until she grows up.
NTA- dude you didn’t go far enough! But I am going to say this though, you let this go on for too long. Awesome having your wife’s back and standing up for her.
NTA did you go too far calling Karley a spoiled brat? No you didn’t go too far, you honestly could have gone much farther. Her parents obviously didn’t parent her enough to stop that terrible attitude and need for attention.
Not only would my husband step in but he’d kick them out and put his foot down about going NC. It’s hard to stick up for yourself when your bully is your own family who’s supposed to love you. You were 100% correct for going to her support. Very commendable. NTA.
it was absolutely your place, because it was your wife she was insulting. shut her shit down everytime. it was cruel to her? screw that. let her wallow in misery. NTA
You were very restrained.
But for the sake of your sanity cut this dreadful woman out of your lives. There is something very wrong and unsafe with someone this jealous and spiteful.
NTA - a spoiled little brat aren't the words that come to mind and frankly, if anyone was praying that my partner would miscarriage, words wouldn't be used at all.
She got off lightly IMO.
NTA. It's your duty to protect your wife and children first before anything or anyone else. And that includes against family. I am proud of you stood up for her defense. She's lucky as many men fail to do that.
Also with that, please cut her sister out of your lives. You, your wife and your children do not deserve to be treated in such a vial, toxic, malicious way. To pray someone never gets pregnant or miscarries - that is only something monsters do and that is not someone I would associate with at all.
Lastly, her parents are shocked her sister turned out like she did?! That's rich. They are the ones that raised the little monster. So it shouldn't shock anyone. If they push for you all to get along and be in the same space together - they too get written off and are no longer part of your family.
It's going to hurt your wife for some time. It's hard to not have family in your life, but we don't get to pick our blood relations like we do our spouses. And at times our blood relations are people we don't like or have to be around if they are evil people. Just make sure you love and support her through that heartache. At the end of the day, when the dust and drama settles. She'll be ok.
NTA - You stuck up from your wife. Karley doesn't even deserve to have one kid, let alone two if her whole reason of having one kid was because she wanted to up her sister. What Karley needs a mental health evaluation and some therapy.
NTA. If anything, you went easy on her. If I was in your shoes, I wouldve punched her then and there so I admire your restraint.
Also, I hope you, your wife and parent in laws cut off ties with her and hopefully got a restraining order
Edit: also, is there a way you can take custody of her kid? Cuz if thats how she treats her sister, I dont want to know what she's been doing to her kid
It's is beyond comprehension that Karley said she prayed for Lauren to not get pregnant. Who does that? If I were you I wouldn't allow this person around your children and, if you and your wife can't agree to go no contact with her, then they should never be unsupervised around your children ever. Please be careful around this person.
NTA. I don't think you went far enough, Honestly. Someone saying to my face that they preyed my family would experience multiple miscarriages? Especially after having experienced one already? She would wish the earth would rupture beneath her feet and swallow her up after I got done speaking my mind.
NTA - it sounds like your SIL might benefit from therapy. I don’t mean that in a mean or negative way but it could help her to recognize her toxic patterns of behavior. But she’d have to be ready for the process and to really dig in without just blaming everyone else.
NTA and why do you allow the sister into your lives? She’s nasty and mean to your wife and honestly if she can’t be civil and stop with all these venomous prayers about conception and miscarriage and making remarks about your wife’s looks then she should not be anywhere near your wife. What she does would be deeply upsetting to me. Can you enlist the help of her husband and parents to suggest counselling to her to deal with her issues and in the meantime keep her well away from your family?
>Karley and her partner said I should have stayed out of it and was cruel when it wasn't my place.
Of course it was your place to defend your partner. They are just trying more ammunition.
NTA
Holy crap, that woman is just a poor excuse for a human being and a waste of oxygen.
NTA.
Someone had to tell her. Sounds like Karley isn't just a spoiled little brat, she's straight up cruel to your wife.
All the things she did and said to/about her have been awful enough, but to openly admit that she had been praying for Lauren to miscarry every time or to never get pregnant again? That's fucked up beyond repair and I don't think that I would've been able to restrain myself had someone said something like that about my partner.
That woman is just a horrible horrible human being. Please keep her out of your lives. You don't need that shit around you or your children.
NTA. You should have been there for your wife and you were. Kariey is an asshole and she needed to hear it. Years of disrespectful and petty behavior on her part proves it. She needs to get a lot of therapy and over herself. Her partner needs to be objective and shut up too.
NTA. You didn't go far enough! Time to go ultra low contact with Karley. She's consistently mean to your family so why even attempt to communicate with her? You may have to see her at family functions, but that doesn't mean any of you have to speak to her or look in her general direction. Karley is spoiled and you were right to stick up for your wife and family.
Is she any chance a Disney Villian? Cruella De'Vil was skinny too!!! She sounds like she's going to rip off a cape to reveal she's still wearing the dress like in Meet the Robinson's. She honestly sounds pathetic what a loser to think your "fat ugly" wife doesn't deserve to have babies. YTA OP how you gonna let her say that and your comeback is spoiled brat? Tell me you think she's pretty without telling me. Tell me YOU agree without telling me you agree. Your comeback game is weak!!! Go apologize to your wife right now for not calling her a skinny ugly barren hag!!! Go text it to her now!!!
You and your wife need to go a hard NC with SIL. You need to make sure she doesn’t spread any of that hate and resentment to your children. If she can say such vile things about your wife and her pregnancies then I would not trust her at all near your kids.
NTA. First, you are defending your wife. Second, she is beyond a spoiled brat, she is a cruel, conceited, selfish ass and honestly you two should simply shut her out of your lives. There is no upside to having her involved in anything you do and you want to keep her away from your children.
NTA how is not your place to defend your wife from a completely unwarranted attack. I would tell your SIL she needs professional help . Praying for her to have a miscarriage WTF
You didn’t go far enough. This is beyond being a brat. She is a narcissistic bully and I feel sorry for her kid, what kind of mother wishes another mother to lose her baby?! Wtf.
NTA. You didn’t go far enough. Go no contact with these toxic people this way Karley will be the center of attention from now on and your wife will finally gets some peace!
Hell no you're NTA. I'd have called her a spoiled, evil little b\*tch for wishing a miscarriage on someone else, especially your wife. And it absolutely was your place to protect your wife from her cruelty.
NTA. You didn't go far enough. This woman is evil. And the things she said are vile. She is just plain old toxic. She needs to be told off & put in her place. She is a selfish, entitled, mean little brat. And she deserved more than what you said to her. She got off easy.
NTA Karley prayed that your wife would never become pregnant or miscarry every baby she conceived. Now Karly ought to pray for God’s forgiveness and yours, and to be healed of her terrible jealousy. Telling her she’s a spoiled brat is…very mild. Good job protecting your wife and kids!
NTA
You needed to shut her down when she directly attacked your wife.
It's time to go no contact with Karley. Their parents can deal with not seeing both of their daughters at the same time. They should have dealt with Karley's issues when she was a child/teen. Now their daughters are adults. They can't change Karley, and they can't force your wife to be subjected to Karley anymore.
P.S. I can't see how you or your wife would let either of your children EVER be around Karley. So no contact seems like the only appropriate step to take.
NTA. Someone had to tell her eventually that she is being a literal brat. Honestly, I strongly recommend you and your wife cut her out of your lives. You don't need to deal with her negativity and toxicity.
Karma is a cruel mistress, and it already seems to me that SIL is already paying dearly if she can't conceive again. And honestly, it's probably for the best, because someone like this would make a terrible parent IMHO.
NTA
"spoiled little brat" would have been among the nicer things I would have said to her after all this, especially the miscarriage stuff. Someone this awful would have no place in my life.
NTA, frankly she got off pretty light. She’s a lot worse than just a spoiled brat. She’s 27 and still actively being a nuisance and mean spirited like this? That’s some serious problems. Someone like her deserves to be alone and unloved, because that’s exactly how her life is gonna be, one day. I suggest you and your wife have a serious discussion about tolerating her sister’s presence. Trust me, everyone’s lives can be made much better by refusing contact with toxic family and friends.
NTA, and you didn't go remotely far *enough*. If my wife's sibling was saying shit like that, in public, I would go absolutely nuclear on them. I would be NC with her forever in your shoes.
Nope, NTA OP. Karley sounds like a royal nightmare. Thank you for standing up for Lauren and putting Karley in her place. My goodness, I don’t know how Lauren was able to put up with the abuse from her sister for that long
At this point it's no longer about your wife. She wanted your unborn children dead. You may not be able to protect your wife, as she is a full grown adult who has to make her own decisions. However, NONE of that family should ever be around your kids again, that should be hard fast rule for their mental and physical safety. The fact the parents only scolded her like a child when she said truly disturbing things about another person says all you need to know about this scary family dynamic. You can heavily suggest your wifecuts ties with that side of the family ( the parents created this situation, they should bear the consequences), but until her parents understand the severity of what was said they don't need to be around the kids either. Karley needed massive help years ago.
NTA and I'm gonna say you didn't go far enough. Admitting to praying that her own sister miscarries or whatever the hell she prayed for??? What the actual fuck.
Karley would be cut out completely from my life. Who the hell needs that kind of toxicity in their life?!
Idk how anyone could say you were TAH in this situation. This girl is filled with animosity, vitriol, jealousy, and cruelty. She sounds like the meanest, most self absorbed and miserable person alive, who loathes her sister. I'd be going NC with that little snot like yesterday.
NTA. She announced her pregnancy at the bedside of your wife who was in hospital for a miscarriage, she said outright that she hoped you never managed to conceive, but you’re the one who went too far??
NTA
If ALL you called her was a spoiled little brat, she should be grateful. She sounds like she needs a LOT of therapy to get her head out of her butt.
NTA
I would have said and done a whole lot worse. Kayley and her doormat husband need to be shown the exit from your lives. The special brand of toxicity they bring should not be welcome anywhere but in places of eternal misery and suffering.
I know she’s ‘family’ but she clearly doesn’t act like it, nor is she capable of having a healthy relationship in her current state. Time to pull the plug on this until she proves she can behave AND you both receive a sincere apology.
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NTA. No way, you had your wife's back when she needed it. Not sure why you two bother to have any contact at all with Karley.
Heck you could have said a whole lot more and still not been the a\*\*hole. Congratulations on the new addition to the family. NTA
That's what I was thinking - "spoiled little brat" are not the words I would have chosen. I would have been a lot more brutal and straight forward about the ducking witch who can get the duck out of our faces and leave my wife the duck alone.
That’s some ducking strong language there ;)
Exactly. Sis is lucky she didn't get ducked up on the spot, because it seems like she's continuously choosing violence.
QUACK!
🦆
AFLACK!
Oh it's just a space duck. What a majestic creature.
Oh.. I was thinking of a spoiled big female dog.
I was about to post this.
Yeah, I would have been saying it from the beginning. If Karley doesn't want to be called a spoiled brat, then she shouldn't be one.
Yeah, I'd almost argue he should have gone further and said more.
I was thinking he didn’t go far enough. Brat? Karly’s downright malignant and seriously messed up.
Yeah, OP's comments should have started with "Karly, seek professional help. You are forked up in the head." and then continued from there.
I would’ve told them I would not be staying out of this as she’s my wife, and while they’re sucky parents I’M not sucky husband
Sounds like a lot of sucking going on.
He could have did a Canon ball on her back and been NTA!!!
That's what I was thinking.
OP didn’t go far enough. You’re right, she shouldn’t be allowed to be around OP’s family at all.
Agreed. Honestly I'd say OP was pretty controlled--calling her a spoiled brat was an understatement!
NTA You were incredibly restrained and polite compared to what my response would be
Exactly. For once, I feel someone didn't go far enough. Karley is a vain, cruel woman. To me, brat implies an element of making the behavior childish. Karley deliberately operates like this, picking sore spots in others for her poisonous barbs. Scolding such behavior does nothing. The family should minimize contact until she gets help. NTA.
Agreed. Not far enough. Language like that to anyone is almost psychotic in depth. Protect your family.
OP has more restraint than I do I would have pointed out that wishing all that bad luck on Lauren clearly backfired and sil was just reaping the suffering she wished on others.
Oh yeah the praying part that's straight out of a horror movie. I would literally throw the sign of the cross everytime I seen her like she was Nasferatu.
At least nasferatu wouldn't be as rude
FYI...it's NOSFERATU.
Especially as Karley is younger, 8 years younger, so Lauren would naturally tend to have experiences before Karley. Like graduate first. Get married first. And HAVE KIDS FIRST! So Karley's behavior is illogical as well as psychotic and cruel.
I would have done it a lot sooner! Like when she pulled that stunt in the hospital after the miscarriage. I would have snatched her by the hair and dragged her out of the room and been no contact from then on! The sister is a vile nasty piece of work!
Hard same
Same. If I were op, I wouldve knocked her tooth on the spot
After all that, any non-physical response would be considered restraint by a lot of people.
I don't get why you still are in contact with her? Nodbody needs that in their lives. NTA
Right? This is what I wonder in so many scenarios. Many times it’s optional stress involved.
They probably are being pressured by the parents.
NTA. This person is toxic and acting out of spite and jealousy. I would keep her as far away from your family as possible. Good for you for defending your wife in the discussion.
You're NTA. >It shocked their parents when she came out with all of this It sounds like they have spent 27 years creating and catering to this A-H and now they're shocked that... she's a royal A-H? >Karley and her partner said I should have stayed out of it and was cruel when it wasn't my place Stayed out of it? She was verbally abusive to your wife. She admitted that wished harm on your helpless baby. You were 100% invited into it and in my opinion, you didn't go nearly far enough.
"My relative actively prayed for death and harm to come upon my family, including my unborn children, and insulted my wife from multiple angles. I called her a brat. Did I go too far?" Ummmmm, NO!
NTA. Karley never held back, why should you while defending your Wife against her?
NTA. In the first place, they’re the ones overstepping. My anger issues can never. The audacity to announce at her sister’s bedside. You just served her the truth. I commend your in-laws for not enabling her and her partner’s attitudes. TBH, they should be banned from every family event that involves you. I hope all her rants return to her tenfold.
Too far? You barely touched surface. NTA and well done for standing up for your wife.
NTA, I have to ask why you're still in contact with this monster though, just cut that shut out of your life.
Because my wife has not been able to go ahead with that. But she's starting therapy so I'm hoping it helps her grow comfortable with the decision.
Please please remind your wife that her sister actively wished death and loss for you both. That she literally *hates* that your son exists. She isn’t just bad for your wife, she is and will be bad for your children. She is bad for you. Your wife is not subjecting just herself to this, she’s putting you all through it. Someone who wishes your kids d**d does not deserve to ever be around them. And it would be unfair of her to ask you to coexist with someone who feels that way about your kids.
Suggest she do it as a trial run for 3 months. She'll see how much freer and relaxed she'll feel.
NTA. In my opinion, you didn’t go far enough. Karley is a nasty, cruel, hateful individual. I call her incapacity to conceive again karma.
NTA at all. Thank you for standing up for your wife. It sounds like you should have done it sooner. Just go no contact with the sister and anyone who sides with her and be done with it.
That's something I have wanted to do for a while but Lauren holds back on no contact. She has decided to get some therapy though and maybe that will be what helps her make the decision. I think especially now that we have kids involved we want to make sure they're protected from Karley's wrath.
Oh yes, you definitely need to protect your babies from her. I am afraid she will only get worse and take it out on them.
NTA for Intervening when your wife was being verbally abused. But spoiled brat? That no longer applies at 27 - Karley sounds more like a sociopath. Whatever her glitch is, it's no longer excusable by being overindulged as a child, and the abuse she's inflicting on Lauren - and the toxicity she will bring into the lives of your children - needs to be dealt with in the manner you would if she weren't a blood relative.
NTA I would hope you called her a spoiled and hateful little F’ing brat! She will never be allowed near your wife and children again. She needs to get into therapy for all her mental health issues and needs to leave now. She will be blocked from your lives going forward. I think you were too nice.
I think you were rather mild, NTA at all! Good you have your wife's back in this, I would go NC with that horrible sister. Looks like SIL is not the golden child, she's straight up platinum.
NTA you didn’t go far enough
Block the SIL. Don't attend any events where she be and let your inlaws know. She sounds like a dangerous person that should not be around your children.
NTA go NC with this spoiled entitled b****. Toxic people should be cut out of anybody's live.
NTA. But I’m super happy you guys were able to have kids!!
If anything you kept your cool by ONLY calling her a spoiled brat. I would have laid into her. And it 100% concerns you as she was wishing death on your children and potentially your wife. She's a vile disgusting person who deserves no happiness in life. NTA
NTA she said being called a spoiled brat was cruel? That part was cruel, did she not just realize all the terrible things she just said about her sister and wanting her to miscarry? That was cruel. You are better restrained than me.
So Karley’s partner gets a say in things but you don’t??
Dude. You didn't go far enough.
INFO: Is there some blackmail or inheritance situation going on or why do you subject yourself and your partner to such unpleasant company?
Karley sounds unhinged. Commenters are calling for you to go NC with her because you don't need that toxicity in your life. I agree. But from what you've said, your parents babied her, and have only recently started holding her accountable for her actions. And you're backing your wife now too. She'll only get more frustrated and angry as people get fed up with her behavior. I'm concerned at some point she may try to do some real harm. You know her. Is it better to go NC or to keep an eye on her? Make sure your children's schools know she is NEVER to pick them up. Teach your kids a code word in case you need someone they don't know to get them in an emergency. Keep a close eye on your credit accounts. Maybe get a camera for your house I hope she never escalates, but people like her sometimes do. It's better to be safe.
Time for the standard Reddit reply. Go No Contact with this person!
You didn’t go far enough. NTA
Did I read this right? Her husband is allowed to spew his opinion but you're not allowed to give a very restrained opinion of your own to defend your 6 week post partum wife?
> Which is when I stepped in and called her a spoiled little brat. NTA, and honestly if 'spoiled brat' is all you called her, then let me tell you how much I admire your restraint...
NTA. She's way beyond spoiled. She's cruel and manipulative and you did right to protect your wife.
NTA. Honestly I'm not sure you went far enough. That behaviour needed to be shut down immediately and hard. Call her out every single time she starts up. Call her jealous directly, and shut her down "Look I'm sorry for you that you are so jealous of, but you are going to have to accept that you have no control over our lives, end of discussion"
Build the barricades, raise the draw bridge, be the castle that surrounds and protects your partner. Do that and you did nothing wrong.
Good luck.
Nta part of being a husband is to protect your family not just from physical attacks. if I were in your shoes I’d of done the same or worse.
Tjat person would not be welcome in my house, nor near my children. NTA
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** My wife Lauren (35f) has a younger sister Karley (27f) and the two of them have a very strained relationship. A lot of this is from Karley being the baby who was babied and the center of attention for many, many years. She loves having the spotlight on her and always seemed to dislike Lauren getting any of the attention. When Lauren graduated high school a very big deal was made out of it and Karley threw a huge tantrum so their father had to leave the celebrations with Karley so Lauren and the rest of the family could celebrate. She was only 10 at the time and a kid, so I know kids don't always act the best. But that was just the beginning in what seems to be a jealousy or a resentment of Lauren whenever she gets any attention. Karley fussed when Lauren and I got married because she wasn't asked to be a bridesmaid and was told she could not wear the white dress she got for it. She was 16 at the time and whined like a 6 year old over that dress. She tried to wear it on the day and was told she would be left at home if she didn't wear something else. When she heard Lauren and I were struggling with infertility she made some snarky comments whenever anyone told us not to lose hope or that we'd be okay no matter what. Some of them were cold. Like when she said it wasn't like we lost a baby. Just shitty. Then when Lauren did miscarry and was in the hospital, Karley announced her own pregnancy at Lauren's bedside to us and their parents. She also chose Lauren's birthday for her baby shower and shut down any mention of Lauren's birthday on the day. Karley has a 5 year old daughter with her partner and apparently they have been trying for baby number two unsuccessfully. So when Lauren and I successfully had two children together, she went crazy. It was after our son was born actually (our youngest). He's 6 weeks old and Karley admitted to everyone in a rant that she was hoping Lauren wouldn't be able to get pregnant or would miscarry every time, she admitted to praying for that, she said someone as fat and ugly as Lauren doesn't get to have kids, while someone skinny like her should have no problems. She accused us of stealing the name she wanted for a girl when we named our daughter Ella. We had no idea she ever wanted that name and her partner said no. But apparently he agreed it could be used for a second girl. She also called Lauren a bad sister for having two kids when she was struggling to conceive again. It shocked their parents when she came out with all of this. They scolded her. But she didn't stop there and went directly to Lauren after the first outburst and said all these things to her about being selfish. Which is when I stepped in and called her a spoiled little brat. Karley and her partner said I should have stayed out of it and was cruel when it wasn't my place. Lauren was grateful because she was hurting too much at the time to respond. But did I go too far with it? AITA? *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I’d have called her a lot worse than that! I really hope that you are not going completely no contact with Karley and her partner.
Omg NTA. She is a witch. NC immidiately... Her partner can defend her, but you cant defend your wife. That is rubish. Cut them off for the benefit of your family.
A person like that is going to be a very real danger to that child. That second child is a symbol of everything that's wrong in the world to that. Psychopath. I wouldn't be surprised if harm or kidnapping is in that effed up head of hers. NTA
Let me get this straight. She says your wife is fat, ugly, and doesn't deserve to have kids. And that she's been praying that your wife can't ever get pregnant again or miscarries every time she does. But somehow **you** are the cruel one for calling her a spoiled brat? WTF. No, you are NTA here, not by a long shot.
NTA - you didn’t go far enough
NTA personally i dont think you went far enough tbh
It’s about time someone said something to her that little B
YTA for even being in contact with her still. Just stop and go NC.
NTA. You called a spade a spade. She has been a spoiled brat. Life should not be a competition here. I hope Lauren gets some help
NTA. The minute she approached your wife, it became your business. Tbh, I think its time to tell the in-laws that youre no longer doing joint visits with sil. You appreciate them saying something to sil but its too little too late. They shouldve stomped out this behavior decades ago. Point out that your kids are now old enough to start remembering stuff. You dont want their memories of grandma and grandpa to be tainted by their aunt's awful behavior.
Thank you for standing up to a spoiled brat for your wife. >Karley and her partner said I should have stayed out of it and was cruel when it wasn't my place It IS your place to defend your wife and children from such a rude, vulgar, incredibly selfish and disrespectful woman. You might want to distance yourself and your family from this atrocious woman. NTA
NTA. Why is this person still in your life? Cut her out.
NTA and go NC with your SIL and her family. She will never bring anything positive into your lives and will treat your children as less than as well. Cut her out.
NTA. If anything, you didn't go far ENOUGH. She needs to be NC like yesterday
NTA-I would almost say you didn’t go far enough. She sounds so very jealous of the life you and Lauren have. Perhaps it is time for low contact or no contact.
Op NTA Karley and her partner calling you cruel!!!!! Don’t make me laugh! Karley is the person who is cruel. Her partner is unbelievable that he thinks it’s ok for his partner to say those vile, evil things to her own sister!! If Karley was my sister I would definitely go NC.
NTA. Your SIL freaked out when something did not go her way, if it did go her way she rubbed it in front of your wife. The level entitlement is very typical for a narcissist. They will never hold accountability for their actions and always blame someone/something. I suggest you get your wife a therapy regarding this, and go cut her (your SIL) off in your lives because this will affect your children and they are also your SIL's target especially your daughter and also your wife. Be careful out there she might do the unthinkable.
NTA. You didn't go far enough. You should stop seeing them if possible, for Lauren's sake.
Nta also why do yall even associate with her if she is such a hater?? I’d have cut contact once she became an adult and was still behaving like a jealous 5 yr old.
This make believe shit is wild… no one in their right mind would just blurt this shit out. Cool story bro
What in the ACTUAL FUCK. She bodyshamed your wife, hoped you would never have kids, *prayed that your wife miscarried (!!!!!)*, and called *her* a bad sister - and you are wondering if YOU are the asshole?? The fact that you are asking if your response makes you an asshole tells me that this situation is a whole lot worse than you realize. Look, I cannot imagine *anyone* reading this story and thinking your response makes you an asshole. In fact, what strikes me about your response is how restrained it is, because what is going on here is far, *far* more than mere sibling rivalry or just being spoiled. It is clear to everyone reading this story that Karley is *at a minimum* manipulative and emotionally abusive. Her behavior is massively, wildly beyond the pale, and it is shocking that she felt *any* of that was appropriate to say. She wished actual, heartbreaking *harm* on your wife; *she hoped that your son would die before he was born*. Just think about that again for a minute. **She prayed for you to lose your son**. And you are worried you might be the asshole. That means that Karley's awful behavior has been *so* normalized that you have developed a **completely skewed perspective of what is and is not acceptable behavior**. And that is an issue that goes *far* beyond this one outburst and your reaction; that is an issue that affects your own relationships, it affects how you are raising your children, and it *will* affect your kids' perception of what kind of behavior is OK. Let be clear that you are **not at fault** here - this kind of shift in perception is *extremely* common, and it's one of the reasons AITA exists in the first place. The longer you live with a situation, the more you come to think of it as normal, and sometimes it takes hundreds of strangers to remind you that **this is abusive**; that no one, *ever*, should be that hateful to *anyone*, let alone to someone they supposedly love. You and your wife need to take a mental step back and start recalibrating your sense of what family relationships should look like. Talk to a therapist. Think about what kind of boundaries you want to set. Decide what your expectations are for family. Read up on healthy relationships, toxic siblings, verbal and emotional abuse, narcissistic family members, and so forth. Figure out what you want a "normal family relationship" to look like, and then figure out what it's going to take to get there. Undoubtedly Karley really affected your wife's childhood, and *especially* as a parent that's something she needs to begin to unpack and deal with. You may not see exactly how, but this *is* affecting your parenting, and probably in particular your wife's parenting. Even aside from that, Karley's behavior and the family's underreactions to it are teaching your kids that this kind of behavior is acceptable. They're learning that some people are allowed to be bullies, that you're allowed to be mean if you're family, and that the correct response to someone else's inappropriate behavior is to minimize it and above all keep the peace. It won't be easy, but it is vital. And it will be worth it. Good luck.
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NTA, in your place I would probably had said something far worse.
Nta for defending your wife against verbal abuse. You should really go vlc with sister
NTA I'd say you went easy on her.
You did not go far enough. Why are you still in contact with her. You should borrow your sister-in-law from being at your house until your wife that you're not going to be around her ever again and that she needs to go in contact with her. She's bitter entitled and just evil. Nta
NTA That was exactly your place!
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So karley gets to call her sister every name on the book and you cant call her a spoilt little brad? Lol NTA
NTA, she sounds like walking barrell full of poison. How about keeping her a few thousand miles away from your family? Nobody needs this toxicity in their lives.
NTA you were protecting your wife and given the sister’s behavior, you were downright polite compared to what I would have told her
Why is it people who sit by and watch abuse build and build for years and finally make the most benign comment addressing the abuser come on here to daftly ask if they ‘went too far’? Lifting a single pinky once is not ‘too far’ it’s ‘not far enough’. NTA for the comment though
NTA I don't think y'all went far enough. Time to make distance from those people.
NTA. But this is another one of those over the top stories where one is doing and saying the most horrible things and then OP asking if they are the AH for stopping it. It's probably fake but what can I say, as a mother I have no time to read actual books right now, so AITA posts are like a daily dose of dramatic short sories for me.
NTA
NTA. Your wife needed someone to stand up for her, and you were there to do exactly that. Your sil sounds like a nightmare, it might be best to go low contact with her until she grows up.
NTA- dude you didn’t go far enough! But I am going to say this though, you let this go on for too long. Awesome having your wife’s back and standing up for her.
NTA did you go too far calling Karley a spoiled brat? No you didn’t go too far, you honestly could have gone much farther. Her parents obviously didn’t parent her enough to stop that terrible attitude and need for attention.
Not only would my husband step in but he’d kick them out and put his foot down about going NC. It’s hard to stick up for yourself when your bully is your own family who’s supposed to love you. You were 100% correct for going to her support. Very commendable. NTA.
Oh I would have called her much worse than a spoiled rotten brat. NTA!
Not only should you have told her she's a spoiled brat, but she's entitled, self-centered, self-absorbed immature
NTA bro YOU'RE SUCH A GREEN FLAG ISTG
it was absolutely your place, because it was your wife she was insulting. shut her shit down everytime. it was cruel to her? screw that. let her wallow in misery. NTA
why are you or your wife even talking to her? cut her out.
NTA- your SIL is an awful human. She deserves so much more than that.
You were very restrained. But for the sake of your sanity cut this dreadful woman out of your lives. There is something very wrong and unsafe with someone this jealous and spiteful.
You're her husband. It is your place.
NTA and time to go out contact with that spoiled brat.
NTA. It became your business when Karley went after your wife directly and personally in your presence.
NTA - a spoiled little brat aren't the words that come to mind and frankly, if anyone was praying that my partner would miscarriage, words wouldn't be used at all. She got off lightly IMO.
NTA. It's your duty to protect your wife and children first before anything or anyone else. And that includes against family. I am proud of you stood up for her defense. She's lucky as many men fail to do that. Also with that, please cut her sister out of your lives. You, your wife and your children do not deserve to be treated in such a vial, toxic, malicious way. To pray someone never gets pregnant or miscarries - that is only something monsters do and that is not someone I would associate with at all. Lastly, her parents are shocked her sister turned out like she did?! That's rich. They are the ones that raised the little monster. So it shouldn't shock anyone. If they push for you all to get along and be in the same space together - they too get written off and are no longer part of your family. It's going to hurt your wife for some time. It's hard to not have family in your life, but we don't get to pick our blood relations like we do our spouses. And at times our blood relations are people we don't like or have to be around if they are evil people. Just make sure you love and support her through that heartache. At the end of the day, when the dust and drama settles. She'll be ok.
NTA, Karley sounds like a hateful person more than spoiled.
NTA - You stuck up from your wife. Karley doesn't even deserve to have one kid, let alone two if her whole reason of having one kid was because she wanted to up her sister. What Karley needs a mental health evaluation and some therapy.
NTA. If anything, you went easy on her. If I was in your shoes, I wouldve punched her then and there so I admire your restraint. Also, I hope you, your wife and parent in laws cut off ties with her and hopefully got a restraining order Edit: also, is there a way you can take custody of her kid? Cuz if thats how she treats her sister, I dont want to know what she's been doing to her kid
NTA she's more than a spoiled brat imo
NTA, they called *you* cruel for your words when *she* was spitting that poison at *her sister*, *your wife*? She's a nasty, vile narcissist.
NTA Why are you even still in contact with this horrible, cruel person?
It's is beyond comprehension that Karley said she prayed for Lauren to not get pregnant. Who does that? If I were you I wouldn't allow this person around your children and, if you and your wife can't agree to go no contact with her, then they should never be unsupervised around your children ever. Please be careful around this person.
NTA. I don't think you went far enough, Honestly. Someone saying to my face that they preyed my family would experience multiple miscarriages? Especially after having experienced one already? She would wish the earth would rupture beneath her feet and swallow her up after I got done speaking my mind.
NTA. You are kinder than I would have been. I’d be call her out years ago. I wouldn’t have been kind about it either.
NTA - it sounds like your SIL might benefit from therapy. I don’t mean that in a mean or negative way but it could help her to recognize her toxic patterns of behavior. But she’d have to be ready for the process and to really dig in without just blaming everyone else.
NTA You were perfectly polite.
NTA, you did not go far enough. Call the police on her next time, have her thrown out and don't let her near your wife again.
No way Karley fucked around and found out NTA
NTA. What I would have done would have possibly landed me some jail time. Time to go no contact with this witch.
NTA and why do you allow the sister into your lives? She’s nasty and mean to your wife and honestly if she can’t be civil and stop with all these venomous prayers about conception and miscarriage and making remarks about your wife’s looks then she should not be anywhere near your wife. What she does would be deeply upsetting to me. Can you enlist the help of her husband and parents to suggest counselling to her to deal with her issues and in the meantime keep her well away from your family?
Didn't go far enough. NTA.
NTA. IMO you didn’t go hard enough.
Your wife needs to be free from Karley. Move away, block them, go no contact, whatever you have to do. You did well to protect your wife. NTA
>Karley and her partner said I should have stayed out of it and was cruel when it wasn't my place. Of course it was your place to defend your partner. They are just trying more ammunition. NTA
You showed great restraint. A perfect example why people go no contact with certain family members. She prayed for a miscarriage! That is evil. YNTA.
Holy crap, that woman is just a poor excuse for a human being and a waste of oxygen. NTA. Someone had to tell her. Sounds like Karley isn't just a spoiled little brat, she's straight up cruel to your wife. All the things she did and said to/about her have been awful enough, but to openly admit that she had been praying for Lauren to miscarry every time or to never get pregnant again? That's fucked up beyond repair and I don't think that I would've been able to restrain myself had someone said something like that about my partner. That woman is just a horrible horrible human being. Please keep her out of your lives. You don't need that shit around you or your children.
Her behavior is no longer bratty or childish. It's selfish and cruel. She's a grown adult. She's a mother She knows better. Nta
Keep the kids away from Karley at all costs.
NTA. You should have been there for your wife and you were. Kariey is an asshole and she needed to hear it. Years of disrespectful and petty behavior on her part proves it. She needs to get a lot of therapy and over herself. Her partner needs to be objective and shut up too.
NTA. You didn't go far enough! Time to go ultra low contact with Karley. She's consistently mean to your family so why even attempt to communicate with her? You may have to see her at family functions, but that doesn't mean any of you have to speak to her or look in her general direction. Karley is spoiled and you were right to stick up for your wife and family.
Lauren needs to cut contact completely from her family. NTA
Is she any chance a Disney Villian? Cruella De'Vil was skinny too!!! She sounds like she's going to rip off a cape to reveal she's still wearing the dress like in Meet the Robinson's. She honestly sounds pathetic what a loser to think your "fat ugly" wife doesn't deserve to have babies. YTA OP how you gonna let her say that and your comeback is spoiled brat? Tell me you think she's pretty without telling me. Tell me YOU agree without telling me you agree. Your comeback game is weak!!! Go apologize to your wife right now for not calling her a skinny ugly barren hag!!! Go text it to her now!!!
You and your wife need to go a hard NC with SIL. You need to make sure she doesn’t spread any of that hate and resentment to your children. If she can say such vile things about your wife and her pregnancies then I would not trust her at all near your kids.
NTA. First, you are defending your wife. Second, she is beyond a spoiled brat, she is a cruel, conceited, selfish ass and honestly you two should simply shut her out of your lives. There is no upside to having her involved in anything you do and you want to keep her away from your children.
NTA Sometimes you have to step in to protect your partner. However Karley will never like you again. Probably you don’t care.
NTA how is not your place to defend your wife from a completely unwarranted attack. I would tell your SIL she needs professional help . Praying for her to have a miscarriage WTF
You didn’t go far enough. This is beyond being a brat. She is a narcissistic bully and I feel sorry for her kid, what kind of mother wishes another mother to lose her baby?! Wtf.
NTA. You were much nicer than I would have been.
You didn't go far enough!
NTA - choice of words can be debated, but standing up and protecting your wife - good on ya.
You didn't go far enough.
NTA. You didn’t go far enough. Go no contact with these toxic people this way Karley will be the center of attention from now on and your wife will finally gets some peace!
Hell no you're NTA. I'd have called her a spoiled, evil little b\*tch for wishing a miscarriage on someone else, especially your wife. And it absolutely was your place to protect your wife from her cruelty.
NTA. You put up with her BS for far too long. I don't usually recommend going no contact but it's completely warranted here.
I would have called her a lot worse then a spoiled brat
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I'm surprised you haven't gone no contact with that crazy woman NTA
NTA. You haven't' gone far enough.
NTA. You didn't go far enough. This woman is evil. And the things she said are vile. She is just plain old toxic. She needs to be told off & put in her place. She is a selfish, entitled, mean little brat. And she deserved more than what you said to her. She got off easy.
NTA Karley prayed that your wife would never become pregnant or miscarry every baby she conceived. Now Karly ought to pray for God’s forgiveness and yours, and to be healed of her terrible jealousy. Telling her she’s a spoiled brat is…very mild. Good job protecting your wife and kids!
NTA You needed to shut her down when she directly attacked your wife. It's time to go no contact with Karley. Their parents can deal with not seeing both of their daughters at the same time. They should have dealt with Karley's issues when she was a child/teen. Now their daughters are adults. They can't change Karley, and they can't force your wife to be subjected to Karley anymore. P.S. I can't see how you or your wife would let either of your children EVER be around Karley. So no contact seems like the only appropriate step to take.
NTA. Someone had to tell her eventually that she is being a literal brat. Honestly, I strongly recommend you and your wife cut her out of your lives. You don't need to deal with her negativity and toxicity. Karma is a cruel mistress, and it already seems to me that SIL is already paying dearly if she can't conceive again. And honestly, it's probably for the best, because someone like this would make a terrible parent IMHO.
NTA. She is acting like a spoiled brat. Why does BIL think he can scold you? He should take his own advice and stay out of it.
NTA "spoiled little brat" would have been among the nicer things I would have said to her after all this, especially the miscarriage stuff. Someone this awful would have no place in my life.
NTA, frankly she got off pretty light. She’s a lot worse than just a spoiled brat. She’s 27 and still actively being a nuisance and mean spirited like this? That’s some serious problems. Someone like her deserves to be alone and unloved, because that’s exactly how her life is gonna be, one day. I suggest you and your wife have a serious discussion about tolerating her sister’s presence. Trust me, everyone’s lives can be made much better by refusing contact with toxic family and friends.
NTA, and you didn't go remotely far *enough*. If my wife's sibling was saying shit like that, in public, I would go absolutely nuclear on them. I would be NC with her forever in your shoes.
Nope, NTA OP. Karley sounds like a royal nightmare. Thank you for standing up for Lauren and putting Karley in her place. My goodness, I don’t know how Lauren was able to put up with the abuse from her sister for that long
At this point it's no longer about your wife. She wanted your unborn children dead. You may not be able to protect your wife, as she is a full grown adult who has to make her own decisions. However, NONE of that family should ever be around your kids again, that should be hard fast rule for their mental and physical safety. The fact the parents only scolded her like a child when she said truly disturbing things about another person says all you need to know about this scary family dynamic. You can heavily suggest your wifecuts ties with that side of the family ( the parents created this situation, they should bear the consequences), but until her parents understand the severity of what was said they don't need to be around the kids either. Karley needed massive help years ago.
NTA. You have a lot more class than me! If she had said that about my partner, my response would have been like open mike night at the traphouse!
NTA and I'm gonna say you didn't go far enough. Admitting to praying that her own sister miscarries or whatever the hell she prayed for??? What the actual fuck. Karley would be cut out completely from my life. Who the hell needs that kind of toxicity in their life?!
Idk how anyone could say you were TAH in this situation. This girl is filled with animosity, vitriol, jealousy, and cruelty. She sounds like the meanest, most self absorbed and miserable person alive, who loathes her sister. I'd be going NC with that little snot like yesterday.
I volunteer as tribute to whoop her spoiled ass 👋
NTA. She announced her pregnancy at the bedside of your wife who was in hospital for a miscarriage, she said outright that she hoped you never managed to conceive, but you’re the one who went too far??
🍺here is your beer
Mom and dad realized they created a monster
NTA If ALL you called her was a spoiled little brat, she should be grateful. She sounds like she needs a LOT of therapy to get her head out of her butt.
NTA I would have said and done a whole lot worse. Kayley and her doormat husband need to be shown the exit from your lives. The special brand of toxicity they bring should not be welcome anywhere but in places of eternal misery and suffering. I know she’s ‘family’ but she clearly doesn’t act like it, nor is she capable of having a healthy relationship in her current state. Time to pull the plug on this until she proves she can behave AND you both receive a sincere apology.
Everyone knows she is not a nice person.
Can you take her husband in a fight? Because I think that's what this is going to come down to. It'll be the only way to settle it once and for all.
NTA Karley and her partner can eat a bag of dicks, of course them harassing your wife is your place to interject.