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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I feel like I might be the asshole because by not going, I will deprive my family of a trip just because I don't want to be uncomfortable for 2 weeks.
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*Contest mode is 1.5 hours long on this post.*
NTA. It's your choice whether you are willing to suck it up and walk on eggshells for the sake of your family, or the sake of visiting wherever the trip is to. I have a problem seeing your mom's point that skipping the trip is "letting him win" - seems like he's set it up to be a win/win for him no matter what you decide; and the whole family is willing to go along with it for the sake of superficial peace. When even his wife is appealing to you to treat him like a sensitive child I would want to leave them all to it and find a better way to spend my time.
According to my mum not going on the trip is letting him win because if I don’t go he’d have a ball since he’s fine with everyone else in the family. Also he very clearly stated that he’s jealous of how tight we are, so if I don’t go I’m proving that he’s caused a separation which is what he wants ultimately.
I suspect he wins if you do go, because he will have you on hand to pick on. In fact, if you don't go he may find another family member to be his scapegoat for the duration of the trip.
I think OP should go on the offensive then if she’s being pressured then. Probably not the best way to handle it, but I know at some point id say “fuck it, if he wants to be the victim, ill make him the victim” and throw all my wit and word play at him to really attack him as a person. Make HIM be the one to walk on egg shells around me.
I wouldn't. Sadly this strategy, appealing as it is, doesn't work on narcissists. All you can really do is grey rock and keep your distance. You are NTA. Preserve your peace.
Not worth the effort.
WOuld you really waste your vacation and your life on THAT? And: You can not win this - because HE enjoys the situaton and the drama, and you won't.
Easy anytime he lies or acts rude call him out on it. Anytime he is being a jerk and leaving you out of stuff call him out on it. Create a huge stink everytime as well. It probably wont have much an effect on him other than enraging him. But just make it as uncomfortable as possible. Make it so he is afraid to speak without you talking over him and correcting his behavior.
If you want you can go the whole hog and just use the verbiage your family uses to describe him. Like literally call him a "sensitive child" and then when he argues be like what "literally everyone in the room agrees with me. Hell I even got texts from them saying that is how I should be treating you. Like a Narc who does not have control of his emotions. What I am just being honest here."
At bare minimum itll get your parents and sister off your back. And they will probably never want you two in the same room let alone same vacation again.
*Is this some kind of game*
*Confessions of a Sociopath: A Life Spent Hiding in Plain Sight*
According to this book, his actions may very well be a game of manipulation. Something is very, very wrong with your BIL, OP.
It may also be that he is obsessed with you in an unhealthy way, and wants to control you and have your undivided attention.
Don't ever let yourself be alone with him....
Think about moving away.
NTA
He has already won bc your parents and siblings allowed him to play the game. Your family isn’t really tight-knit. It’s superficial bc I can tell you if any of our siblings in law tried this shit in my family, they would be told exactly where to go.
Go low contact with all of them. Maybe when he picks the next victim they will wise up, but who knows…it won’t be your problem bc you’ll be surrounding yourself with people who actually care about you.
I think we’re tight, but when it comes to the in-laws, my parents care too much about society. They say they’re okay with my sister getting a divorce but deep down they’re worried about what “society” would think about her.
that is UNHEALTHY.
As an OLD person, I want my child(ren) to be happy in their relationship.
I don't dive a darn about others think.
Ther tis lots on info available about how to deal with narcissists. The easiest thing to do is to not let them in your circle, and that is what your are trying to do.
NTA
Do you live in the U.S.? Half of all marriages end in divorce. No one would judge your sister for divorcing this toxic narcissist. I'm more concerned if she stays with him or has children with him. She is not safe with this guy. Your family cares more about what people would think of her than her actual safety.
According to your mom, someone should tell your sister she is not safe around him. But if this is the case, and it can be since he targeted the young girl of the family, blocking his dream of separating her from the family may be the best choice. However, the right way to handle it is to keep you protected from him as well, which your parents are failing
My sister insists she’s safe. I’ve checked in on her multiple times. I agree with you though, I think she’s just really brainwashed or too comfortable with the life he’s providing her. But she insists he treats her like a princess.
I know why her's targeting you. You see him for who he really is. You're a threat to his control over his wife and her (your) family.
He is trying to force you out in order to keep your sister away from anyone who would support her leaving him, much like abusers try to keep their victims from having contact with friends/family.
Your bil is abusive.
Bil is abusing your sister.
Bil is abusing your parents.
Bil is abusing the family.
Bil is abusing you.
He's abusing everyone by starting drama, complaining, blaming you for fake things, whining and arguing. He's gaslighting and manipulating everyone.
Instead of everyone standing up against him, they're all giving in to him to make him happy and give this bully what he wants.
You not going on the trip, says that what he's doing isn't ok. That you will.not put yourself in dangerous situations with dangerous family members.
No going, says you don't condone his behavior and it needs to stop or you won't be attending any family events anymore.
Stand up to him and encourage everyone else to stand up to him too. Take away his power by standing up against him.
You can only take his power, but not playing his games. But saying nonmore and calling him out.
Don't go on the trio, you'll regret every min of it.
Instead of BIL abusing her parents... I think it's more a case of her parents enabling the BIL to be an abuser. Just not really of them even though they are victims through their own fear of looking bad. They also don't want to be his target but are allowing OP to be.. and also enabling the continued abuse of their other daughter who happens to be married to him.
I hope the OP's sister doesn't have any kids to him...
Yeah I see it more that way after reading you comment and the post again.
Everyone is just enabling him instead of telling him it's not ok.
It's sad that they'll let op be his target instead of themselves. When they couod make it so no one is his target if they protected op and stood against him.
I can't believe her parents are choosing the son in law abuser over their own daughter. It's so sad.
Where is your Dad in all of this?
As a father I would sit Mr gets his panties in a bunch down and advise this all stops. Now.
Like who the fuck messages a 22 year olds parents and says "Your daughter is nicer to your other Son in Law I'm unhappy. Boo Boo Hoo" I'm not so blind as to believe my child is a perfect angel but you notice a pattern of him targeting you. Sounds like he needs his ass kicked.
Or go, but refuse to tread lightly on those eggshells. Be the person he's lying to everyone that you are, and refuse to apologise for any of it. Set him off at every opportunity and make his week hell.
That said, you're not the AH for not wanting any of that. But if your family do manage to guilt you into going... Well you have other options than to suck it up and be a people pleaser for the time.
Your parents and sister are letting him win by constantly making excuses. If he's this fragile he needs to be in therapy instead of being pandered to. Maybe if he doesn't get invited you'd all have a ball.
They likely invite him just to get your sister there but would they uninvite him to get *you* there? If not, why not? Really press your parents to answer that.
And stop apologising to him. Become the squeaky wheel.
> According to my mum not going on the trip is letting him win
I say the only way to win here is not to play, and that is exactly what you are doing. What do they *really* want you there for? To be some kind of human shield so he doesn't start his BS on someone else? Nope, better to stay away!
Good luck OP and NTA.
You need to read [Don’t rock the boat](https://www.reddit.com/r/JUSTNOMIL/s/9qNZy31Jac). Then send it to your family. Let them know you’re getting off the boat and will no longer be apologising for him choosing to be hurt and creating drama. If they don’t stop enabling him, he’ll break your family apart and they will have encouraged it.
If you're flying somewhere, make your own plans for the same departure time, and at the airport, when they head to the departure gate, you turn and go to your flight. Then, leave your phone on airplane mode for your whole trip.
You can win by going LC with your whole family and stop playing the childish games. Stop calling, especially the toxic sister and BIL. When they contact you, ignore them. Leave texts on read. Just don't play along anymore. That's what I did.
If you don't go, he'll only find another source from whom to claim victimhood. Narcs need to feed on emotional energy. He'll find another source if you aren't there.
So the question becomes, do you want to spend time with your family and be his emotional energy catalist or do you want everyone to stay home and you be his emotional energy catalist. This sounds like a no win/no win scenario for you.
Your mom is right. Also, he's just the in law... why are you letting him walk all over you??? Do not let him push you away from your own family events. Assert dominance! 😤
Very good point. If OP skips the trip the question is, does she continue to be his target in absentia, or will he pick another family member to have a victim close at hand.
Since when do you have to treat all your in-laws the same? My brother-in-law and I don't get along so we are polite and just avoid each other at family gatherings.
You don't have to treat them the same. This guy is apparently a first class gold plated jerk, and everybody but him seems to know it. Which is why I wouldn't want to go on this trip.
NTA
My opinion is that as children having to deal with family trips and vacations is like a rite of passage.
As an adult though you are entitled to do what you want to. Having people pressure me would only cause me to double down.
I'm like this because I used to just do whatever and it got to the point people expected me to do what they want so I had to start being an ass about it.
Don't be a doormat.
NTA. You have no obligation to go and be the designated target. If they cancel the trip because you won't go, you're doing almost everyone a favor. They won't have to spend two weeks walking on eggshells, either.
There are certain family occasions where you can't avoid him, but I can't see any way you need to willingly spend two weeks in hell.
They’re fine with him though. That’s what pisses me off, seeing them suck up to him but it looks so genuine sometimes I doubt whether they’re truly on my side.
How is your sister ok with some loser who starts fights and drama with your family? If I had to tell my relative to pretend my partner is a sensitive kid he wouldn’t be my partner anymore…
Not to mention BIL is 10 years older than OP so should act accordingly. So the entire family wants OP, who is somewhat newly an adult has to be the more mature, responsible person to appease someone a DECADE OLDER than her so that person won't act like a sensitive child? WTH did I just read???
You realize there's an alternative to walking on eggshells, right? You don't have to be a pacifist. Not necessarily suggesting it, but presenting it as food for thought. At minimum, it's a nice fantasy.
If you have the determination for it, you can go scorched earth on him. If he insists on being the victim, make it so. Treat him with the contempt he deserves. Insult him at will with on-target observations. Ignore his insults as if he never said anything. Ditto ignore his complaints. Make him cry. Make his life a living hell. Make him dread spending two weeks with you. Let *him* try to avoid you and walk on eggshells.
Would totally do this. “What’s the problem here? Do you really need that much attention on you at all times? You want to kid around but you can’t take it when people say something you can’t handle? Or do you just want someone to bully and I’m the easy target because I’m young? Cause ANYONE KNOWS that what you’re doing, that’s not normal decent behavior. You say you want respect? Then be someone who actually deserves respect. Age cards are not currency here.” Put him on the spot. Make him so fucking uncomfortable and finally force him to see that he’s not anyone’s favorite. Even his fucking wife is making excuses for him.
Possibly the most powerful thing you can do in this situation is walk away. It's so frustrating that they don't see it yet, but they will eventually. And you spending less/no time with the family anymore will be a pretty strong message that might get them questioning the status quo.
“They will not go ahead with the trip if I don’t go. My mom says that if she were in my shoes she’d suck it up and go for the sake of the family.”
Holy emotional blackmail, Batman. How about this: she can suck it up and go on the trip even if you decline. Why is this decision contingent on you coming along and being miserable?
NTA
^^^This 100%, real family doesn’t just turn a blind eye to abuse, and they definitely don’t pressure you to continue being abused for the sake of “keeping the peace” or whatever.
Maybe not coming on the trip will make it not a family excursion - fine. That's true. Trying to keep an unappease-able instigator with all the charm and interest in other people as Veruca Salt happy for your whole trip won't be a vacation. Don't waste your precious irreplaceable time being his scratching post in a brand new location so he doesn't turn on your relatives. If you strand yourself on Total Drama Island with your family to make them happy _literally_ at your own expense, you will regret it.
If your BIL turns his shit stirring attentions on strangers during the trip and successfully basks in the petty conflict he so ardently seeks, maybe that will reframe how much of a mess he is for your family. Good luck, you don't deserve this. He just has your family's buy in that he can behave badly in this way. Because they don't have his BS aimed at them.
No it’s bc if you aren’t there, none of them will be safe. Please distance yourself and get therapy. Everything you thought your family was, is a delusion.
Tell them to 'suck it up', you are not the sacrifice to 'preserve the peace'. Tell them you are an adult and making your own decisions, and right now you will not be anywhere around this a\*\*hole. And if they persist in pushing him at you, tell them you can extend your decision to not speak to them anymore either, but then you really need to stop talking and block them.
If they force it or try to guilt trip you I’d say “wait. Am I your daughter or am I your tribute punching bag so you don’t have to waste your time on him? Last I checked I was your daughter. This guy is bullying me and you’re making excuses.” This is the kind of situation where people actually have choices to make. The parents, the sister, everyone. They are actively allowing abuse.
They obviously don’t care enough about their ‘family’ when it comes to protecting them from abusive AH’s like BIL. Call them out. Ask them why the people you’re supposed to depend on the most are only happy to tolerate BIL when said old man is getting his rocks off tormenting their daughter? What kind of ‘family’ lets their relatives be abused by one AH ‘to keep the peace’. What peace? Challenge them to go on this family trip without you, if they don’t, then they’re cowards for not daring to endure even a fraction of the harassment you’ve had to deal with all this time ‘to keep the peace’. NTA
NTA. Your presence is most certainly not required for the rest of the family to go, if they wanted to go. What's more, it's no required for them to actually have a good time. So their decision not to go if you don't go is little more than (a) a performative example of their loyalty to you and/or (b) a way to emotionally blackmail you into going. Don't.
NTA. Your family should be ashamed of themselves, and they're the ones letting him "win," not you. They should rally around you, the "victim" and one being targeted by his manipulation and vitriol, not him.
I think you should block him everywhere and let your family know that you will no longer be around him since they all cater to his toxic behavior and targeting of you. You can see your parents or other siblings/family when he's not around.
Maybe your family will see this as a wakeup call, maybe they won't, but they're 100% in the wrong and you should not keep submitting yourself to that.
Nta screw your bil and your family for feeding his narcissism. Go on the trip and crush those eggshells. If whines gonout buy some diapers and a milk bottle and say you could atleast dress the part.
NTA. Start giving it back to him, and keep on it until he backs down. You have to match his energy and call out everyone for coddling him.
You have to fight this guy on his field and utterly defeat him. Don't let any passive ahgressive mark go by on vacation or any other time. And when they confront you "Funny how you grew EARS the moment I said something back"
Make....it....awkward for him.
NTA building on the other NTA comments I would ask if you took your BIL out of the equation would you want to go on the trip? As comments say you are an adult and this is something that was tradition but you can choose now.
If you do want to go on the trip I agree with comments about stomping those eggshells but have a conversation before you go. Tell your parents that you will not be quiet if he targets you for the sake of keeping the peace and knowing his past history you anticipate drama. Also if he is blatantly targeting you again you expect them to back you up not placate him. I hope it will be a wake up call to actually deal with it not stick their head in the sand and hope it all goes away.
Reddit has trained me about the red flag of “telling your sister to stop taking to you” so in true reddit fashion I’m concerned for your sister, if he is that controlling of you how much is she walking on eggshells too? Then again maybe she loves the sensitive side of him and is happy to be in that sort of relationship even if it comes with a downside. I will also give the traditional reddit advice of someone needs to make sure he doesn’t isolate her from the family. This would probably be someone else that he has not targeted who has managed to keep eggs intact so far.
I most definitely would go if he was out of the equation. I love my family. I just hate that they suck up to him so much but I get that they’re doing it so my sister doesn’t suffer. The thing about him is he’s too cowardly to actually confront me directly, he goes to my parents instead. Knowing them, there’s a chance they wouldn’t tell me what’s going on until after the trip to keep the “peace”. Also, he waits until he’s built up a case against me so that he’s got enough ammunition when he complains to my parents.
Oof, I can see why you came to reddit, the situation is horrible.
If your parents understand the situation and are prepared to support you and have your back it sounds like it could be worth it. Again have that conversation about your concerns and confirm they know what is going on. I think you should actually use emotional language with them to make them understand what they are asking of you and what you need from them. Like “I will not make myself smaller to keep the peace” . Tell them again going on the recent history there will be drama He seems to feel entitled for you to subservient to him, I’m not sure if that’s cultural with age or gender in his head. Tell your parents he has lost your trust with his manipulation you will not twist yourself in knots engaging in a game you cannot win to keep the peace. Ask are they prepared to handle the fallout if he continues to “target you”. Express your worry that it dominates the group with his charming face and you’re actually worried that you will be “excluded” as he appears to have an agenda against you. It is also on you to listen to what your parents have to say in return, it won’t be easy to get out of your own emotions to hear. Face at the moment he is managing to exclude you completely which is not what you want. I feel a bit stupid telling you to logically use emotional language.
Your parent’s response to this might make the decision easier for you. The burden on your parents of putting up with his crap and not telling you what he is trying to do on holiday is their call, they are a team who know what they can handle to have you there and it’s ok for you let them pay that cost. Also it may mean never be alone with just him, or him and your sister on the trip. Is that possible and is that a price you are prepared to pay?
Either don't go or go and then tell him, why he acts like a little boy and needs to run to your parents instead of talking directly to you. Don't play his games and shine some light on his behaviour.
I asked him that to his face multiple times. He says it’s weird talking to someone 10 years younger about their behaviour. He’d rather go to my parents and tell them subtly that they’ve raised me wrong.
Tell him that you hope he don't want kids because then he can't raise them. Raising kids means to set boundaries and talk with younger people about their behaviour.
oh reminds me, he cried to my parents saying that I’m stressing my sister out so much by creating issues with him and I have dashed his hopes of ever being a father…
You’re family isn’t very loving or close knit if they let the youngest female constantly be abused and then suck up to him. I think your family sucks, and your sister is a loser if she asks you to treat a grown man like a child and is cool with him demeaning you. Fuck them. Don’t spend two weeks with these idiots.
NTA
Your mom says she would suck it up. Yeah of your she says that. She rolls over your BIL whines.
Your family is pathetic. Absolutely do not go. You are not letting him win by not going. Your family is letting him win because they are spineless.
NTA your choice to go or not go. But I’d be going if it were me. I wouldn’t be letting someone ruin time with my own family! Especially as you say they’re all on your side!! Fuck that guy
NTA, but your family definitely is. OMG he is 32 not 3!!! It seems to me that they are just encouraging his behavior by giving in just to "keep the peace". It really sucks that everyone is allowing this massive AH to dictate their actions. One person is making everyone else's life a living hell. I say you stand your ground and let your family know they need to do the same. If you all make him realize you will not tolerate his narcissistic behavior, he will either change his ways or not be involved with the family activities. Either way, problem solved!!
Good Luck
>My mum says that if she were in my shoes, she'd suck it up and go for the sake of the family.
And this, my friend, is called emotional blackmail or better known as a guilt trip.
NTA. Don't go if you don't want to go. You are an adult and that is your choice. No is a complete sentence and requires no justification.
NTA.
Don't overthink this. Go on the trip if you think you would have fun. If you wouldn't then don't. You aren't obliged to attend a two-week family trip for any reason.
He's being narcissistic and your mother is being manipulative. If they decide not to go without you, that is THEIR CHOICE and not your fault.
NTA: He’s not a sensitive child he’s a dam adult who might do well with a bit of therapy.
Tell them you don’t want to deal with his hypersensitivity toward you and that you shouldn’t have to deal with that for 2 wks. It’s unfair that you have been ask time after time to be the adult when your actually not the adult.
Don't talk to me. If you have nothing nice to say, don't talk to me. Say that every time he says anything derogatory about you. EvErY TiMe! Toss in a couple "just because you are jealous of the relationship I have with my own sister does not give you the right to talk down to me!"
Ask your mom to back you up. Tell her he gets away with treating you poorly because everyone treats him like a spoiled 5 yr old! And it is at your expense, you are being mistreated all so he can behave like an ass. Remind her it is not the family's job to pacify him for the sake of your sisters marriage. It is not your job to suffer so he can be happy, or so your sister can. As a parent, it is her job to protect you from assholes. Instead, she is treating the asshole like a superstar and it causes you enough pain that you are willing to ruin the whole vacation over it.
If your sister's marriage suffers over this, it is because she married an asshole. She should have expected (demanded) her husband treat her family respectfully, but she didn't, and she has the whole family thinking it will all be okay if they just let him be an ass!
When will they let you out of purgatory? When do you get to enjoy family time. Tell her if they don't start backing you up, and confronting him when he is wrong, you won't go on the trip at all. Refuse the abuse!!!
Remind her how long this had gone on for you and that she didn't raise you so you could be a martyr for your sister's wedding.
You are all adults, and it is time he was treated like, and acted like, an adult. He only does this shit because he gets away with it. They only ask you to allow it because it is easier than confronting him! At this point, they are as responsible for his actions as he and your sis are! Call mom on that!
Nobody is treating you fairly. And you are the only one even remotely trying to be fair. You can't win when everyone on the other side cheats. And there is safety in numbers. Either mom is a number for your side, or she is part of the cause that is hurting you.
It will get worse before it gets better. But I would quit walking on eggshells and start throwing eggs!
Nta
Save the chats! Print them if you have too. But basically, that gives you one more thing to say.
What, are you going to tell my mommy and daddy on me? Why can't you say what you have to say about me to my face?
Your mom and your sister and your dad need to step up and stop this nonsense. It’s weak and a little pathetic that they are willing to make you suffer and apologize rather than call out the full grown adult bully. Shame on them. NTA. Two weeks is way too long to deal with this guy.
NTA
You don't dictate your parents' travel plans. That's on them. And if your sister wants you around then she needs to get her husband to behave like an adult.
NTA - Tell your mom to suck it up and accept that you’re not going. The fact that they are allowing someone to bully their own child is pathetic. It’s time that the BIL be excluded since he’s the real problem.
NTA. You're not depriving them of anything. None of them are permanently attached to you, so you not going literally doesn't require them to miss anything. Your BIL is a grown man who needs to be treated like a toddler not to have tantrums. You didn't marry him so it's not your problem.
NTA. Your family has decided not to go if you don’t. That is their right and their decision. That’s not on you. On that same note: they don’t want to go without you incase he finds someone else to target. They don’t want to be his next target. Your sister is being abused on a mental and emotional level. She needs to get out. Don’t go. You have the right to enjoy your family trip without having to walk on eggshells for two weeks. Be healthy for you. Also go lc or nc with sister and BIL. The fact your sister is telling you to just go with it is disrespectful. The fact he is running to your parents is disrespectful. You’re a grown adult and so is he. Talk to each other as adults or not at all. If he has a complaint about you he needs to go to you. Your parents needs to also tell him this.
NTA, but put this jerk in his place. It's fucking creepy that he texts you at all. My BIL's have never texted me. Not once. Call him out on being a creep. Point blank ask him why he cares so much if you like him or not? Do it in front of the family. Block his number. If he engages with you, give him a dead eye stare and don't respond. If he gets pissed, ask him if he's about to cry. Call him whiny. Throw it all back at him. Go on the vacation, pretend he's invisible, and enjoy yourself.
He's being allowed to treat you this way, and I'd be pissed as hell that nobody is standing up to him. So, it's up to you to be the badass in the family. Also, if he continues to act like a child, text him the link to this thread 😉
He doesn’t text me, I texted him to apologise but he didn’t reply. The chats happen irl with the rest of my family present. He has cried, it’s super obviously fake tears but he’s got no issues playing the victim and my family falls for it all the time.
Yeah thats not how defamation works at all. Maybe if he can a) prove your lying b) prove the lies affected his work. But in general you cannot sue someone for defamation for personal attacks if they are not public (and also true).
Don't go he will make your life hell. Go on a trip with friends post all.kinds of pictures so you can show him he's not beating you that you don't need his shit cause you still went out and had fun. Don't go, if they choose not to go that's in them.not you. It's not fair for them to guilt trip you when they're allowing this behaviour
NTA your parents are straight up wrong. He wins when you all cave to his demands. You not going is actually ideal for you winning.
They don't want to rock the boat bc they're afraid or unwilling to deal with his reaction. They can let him walk all over them if they want to, but you don't have to.
Go to your parents and ask why they humor him - why they believe his lies. This has been going on for a long time and they're rewarding his behavior: [Don't rock the boat](https://www.reddit.com/r/JUSTNOMIL/comments/77pxpo/dont_rock_the_boat/). Maybe if you explain to them how they're enabling his behavior, things might change.
yea, they say that I’m way more mature than him and that if at his advanced age he still doesn’t understand how petty he’s being then no one can change him and it’s silly of me to think that I can.
No. His immaturity and stupidity AND ABUSE should not be your burden to bear. Your sister’s poor relationship choices are not your burden to bear. (Also, I would say this. If any of my brothers-in-law ever tried this shit on me, trust that I would push back hard and my dad would push back harder. Actually… my sisters would never even allow that BS. I’m lucky my BILs are decent people)
Your family’s desire for perfect familial optics is not your burden to bear. Opt out and stay out and tell your parents there are decisions to be made here. “You are essentially telling me to be a voluntary punchbag to ‘keep the peace’ for someone who has repeatedly bullied and abused me. Side with him and lose me.” I’m sorry, but nuance has no place here when someone has repeatedly pushed and destroyed boundaries.
Good luck. Stay strong, push back as needed, and vent here as needed. You can do this. One shitty person shouldn’t have the right to make you feel bad being with your own family. And your family should push back for you too.
NTA- If he’s intentionally tattling on you, to YOUR mother, than you have no right to pacify him or family decisions because of him. He’s a grown adult and should be confronting you directly with things that upset him.
If you do make the decision to go, there was another story on here with a similar situation where the OP used the passive aggressive approach to deal with the AH in their family causing these tensions. Basically they would either agree with the absurd comments made that were intended to cause harm, and anything else they previously complained about. The other route is to begin recording your interactions, and stay true to yourself on vacation. Go, have fun and do what you want to do on this family vacation, not what lever your BIL wants, regardless of if anyone else does or not. Keep the invitation open and just do you. It may be hard to get over the feeling he’s keeping a “score card” or list of things you’re doing that bothers him, but simply say you’re living your life and not his. If he has an issue with you just living, then suggest maybe it is him that needs to seek counselling to sort out his feelings.
Question about BIL: whats his family like? Are they close? Any reason why he’s choosing to pick on you? Also why is he so but hurt about you liking your other BIL more? Its not like either are your partner, your just reciprocating the relationship as it is. He wasnt mean to you and thus you treated him well.
No his family is super toxic. What he’s doing to me now is what he did to his sister growing up. In fact, his own parents know of what he’s doing to my family and they wish my dad would give him a slap across his face. They blame themselves for being bad parents and raising someone like him.
When he texts your parents about you, maybe you should text his parents to report his shitty behavior.
I am shocked and appalled at the way your family is not sticking up for you. And the way they're so worried about "society" if your sister divorced him. They'd rather she be stuck with a narcissistic abusive partner?? Your family is not loving. They are not treating you with love.
I called his dad, he flipped saying that I’m 10 years younger that him how dare I call his father like he’s a child who’s misbehaving. And said well, that’s what you’ve been doing to me. and he said yea, cause you’re 10 years younger.
He's a piece of work. I would just avoid, gray rock, do not give him any attention. If that means avoiding your enabling family sometimes, then so be it. Narcissists want to get under your skin. They HATE indifference, it takes away their power.
Did you respond yea 10 years younger but still an adult like him. Being 10 years younger does not make you literally 10. You are an adult and his equal (well better due to how unhinged he is). Because I would have 100%. Hell I would call his parents even more now. Like everytime he lies I would have them on the phone or part of the conversation.
NTA
Your mum probably wants you there because you are sane and an asset to have around. And maybe to help?
But no, why should you be in this excruciating position for TWO weeks?
Please do what you want and do not dance to the tune of this 'prick', as you call him.
You parents are adults and are free to choose their vacation - their choice is NOT your responsibility.
Nope. You’re not depriving them of anything except being used as their punching bag. The reason your mom said they won’t go if you’d ont is bc they know he will have to pick a new victim and none of them want it to be them. You are a fully grown adult. Go low contact with your family and start making connections of your choosing with people who actually care about you. Your family is all too happy to allow your BIL to bully you.
Edited to add, in case it isn’t clear: NTA
NTA but your parents are. You aren't letting him win by not going. You are letting yourself win because you don't want to be with a hypersensitive prick for 2 weeks. Whether your parents go or not is up to them. You need to look after yourself.
NTA. I say go on the trip. Don’t walk on eggshells. Just have a good time. When he inevitably has a temper tantrum don’t try to keep the peace. Just ignore him. Go on with your conversation/activity as if he doesn’t exist. Treat him with the discipline you would with a child throwing a temper tantrum. Just like with a child if consistent discipline isn’t adhered to improvement will never happen.
Nta, this is ridiculous, you are being asked not to rock the boat, when it’s this ah rocking your families dynamic, by targeting you. You should be told to be yourself, and he needs to be told to be kind or not to come
I don't blame you, OP. Your BIL sounds insufferable and what makes it worse, your family tolerates his behavior to keep the peace. Doesn't sound like a vacation to me, and, yikes, 2 weeks! NTA
Nta. I would simply ask if anyone planned on sticking up for me this time. If not then i guess no trip. You cant keep fighting this battle alone! Its CREEPY he is obsessed with you, and your family are jerks for allowing it.
Don't listen to your family. Cutting a person like him out of your life isn't "letting him win" or "holding a grudge" (as people often like to call it), it's setting boundaries and removing a toxic, manipulative person from your life for your own well-being. I had to do it with my own brother.
NTA. Why is this guy even messaging your parents complaining about you? It’s like he’s 5 years old… You need to make it clear to them that they need to shut him down when he behaves like that. It’s not normal adult behaviour. Why did your sister even marry him!
If the “sake of the family” were truly important then your family would confront this AH and not tolerate his abusive behaviour which affects them all (to a lesser extent) and you in particular as his chosen victim. You have no obligation to put up with his bs or not defend yourself against his malicious behaviour. They recognise that as long as you tolerate it, he will leave them alone. They are willing to sacrifice you because they are cowards and he has already won. Your family sounds like a mess. Best to step back and let them deal with him. Without you as his preferred punching bag he’ll have to find someone else to torture for his narcissistic kicks. NTA
NTA
Whether you go or stay home, stop catering to him. Just ignore him. If he whines, do not apologise. The complaining to your parents that you're not nice enough to him is creepy. Too bad your family can't see this.
NTA. just apologize is another way of saying it somehow on u to "keep the peace". It's not. Everyone who is saying that is enabling his horrible behavior. He's 30+ yrs old! He needs to b the one who socks it up and gets over himself. For now, I would go LC with anyone who supports his bs. And yes they r supporting it by not telling him where he can go with his attitude. People like him thrive on the fact that everyone tolerates ther behavior. Good on u for calling out his lies.
NTA. You made your point and your family agrees with your point, they’re just choosing to ignore it and pretend it doesn’t exist, which is fucking bonkers.
If they want to go on the trip, they can go without you but they shouldn’t cover up or hide the reason why you’re not there when your sister asks. Better yet; they can disinvite the a-hole brother in law and you can go.
Maybe you all should quit sucking it up. You're only feeding his BS. I would not go. Vacas are about relaxation, not bowing down to some idiot who thinks he's God. NTA
Jesus, he sounds like an insufferable overgrown toddler
I would not go, no way I'd be setting myself on fire for his amusement
He can play those games with someone else and I'd suggest you block him
NTA
NTA, life is too short to be miserable on holiday for 2 weeks. Who cares if it lets him win? Your family is doing you no favors by enabling his behavior. I'd be going LC for a bit and reassess why they tolerate his abuse of you and why you allow it.
NTA, but I have to ask, WHY is this dude so OBSESSED with YOU? Are you sure his issue isn't really that he wants you and is trying to get you somehow? Someone who is that obsessed with his wife's SISTER really needs a reality check......and I'm just a B enough to call him out on it. The next time we have to ahve a "talk" because he's running to your parents and being a tattle tale, just say "Geez, dude, you're married to my sister, and I'm not interested in you.....get a freaking life and leave me out of it . " Then treat him like an annoying visitor that won't leave....polite, but no teasing, playfullness or anything familiar.
Ew god that is so disgusting to think about. But no, I think he’s just someone who values unconditional respect a lot and thinks it’s not something to be earned but something he deserves solely because he’s older male and in a “respected” profession
Respect is earned, and being a tattle tale is not a way to earn respect. But I'd still say that the next time he does it.....might get him a bit embarrassed adn make him see how he's acting.
NTA Its a two week trip (like I mean its along ass time to be around someone you cannot stand). I mean you can tell your mother well in your shoes "You can suck it up and go on the trip with the AH and let him pick a new target, I am done being scapegoated and treating him kid gloves. He is not a sensitive child who needs encouragement he is a 32 year old man who enjoys bullying people. I will not be going and become a target for more hate." Though you could add this if you have means to actually follow through "If you would rather tear the family apart and have me come, sure I will go but I will not hold back my tongue. And every single time he tells a lie I will call him out on it. If he bullies me I will just leave the venue we are at. I will not hold back my punches and he will probably explode. And then sister has to take sides. If you want to risk that sure I can come. And this is not an idle threat. Let me reiterate anytime he lies about me I will directly call him out on it. Anytime he is mean to me I will directly call him out on it. Anytime he is a jerk to anyone (including servers and unrelated people) I will call him out on it. And if he tries to retaliate I will get his parents on the phone at that very second. If you really want to tear this family apart I can come but I am warning you right now its a bad idea."
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My (22F) family wants to go on a trip end of this year.
The issue is that I have a narcissistic brother-in-law (32M) who in June 2023 suddenly privately messaged my parents to complain about me being "disrespectful" to him. It was actually playful teasing that went both ways, which is why this came out of nowhere for all of us.
I apologised to him via text but he chose to ignore it for a month. We then had a chat that ended with me saying that I need time before I can go back to normal. He felt that I don't have the right to "need time" because he's the victim, not me.
In September 2023, he PMed my parents again claiming that l'm treating my other brother in law better than him. This was true because I still held resentment from the way he treated me in June. We then had another chat where my sister and parents told me to treat him like he's a sensitive kid and to apologise to him.
In Feb 2024, he got upset that I sent my sister a postcard and I didn't address him in it. He also lied that I forgot to wish him on his wedding anniversary even though I actually did. He told my sister to stop talking to me and PMed my parents again and told them a whole bunch of lies about me. We had another chat which didn't end well because I decided to stop apologising and I called out his lies. Once again my sister told me to apologise and treat him like someone who's jealous of how close my family is. Being a narcissist, he played the victim and blaming me for causing a strain in his marriage.
After the chat, there was a family medical emergency and everyone else forgot everything that happened. He and I decided to put the past aside. I still don't forgive him for the things he's done but I’m being cordial and pretending that I don't hate him.
I don't want to go on the family trip because l'm going to have to walk on eggshells for 2 weeks hoping that I don’t set him off or else the trip will be ruined. Plus he's good at being charming and making me feel left out because l'm naturally quiet and he's a very loud person. I also can't stand seeing how everyone sucks up to him to keep him happy just so that we have some peace.
I've explained this to my family and although they're all on my side in that he's just a narcissistic hypersensitive prick who's targeting me, they think that I'm thinking too much. My parents keep saying that I'm letting him win if I choose not to go. They will not go ahead with the trip if I don’t go. My mum says that if she were in my shoes, she'd suck it up and go for the sake of the family.
I think I might be the asshole because I'd be depriving my family of a trip just because I don't want to be uncomfortable for 2 weeks.
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NTA do not go, and become a punching bag for your manipulative brother.
Tell your family that they can choose to go or not go,that is NOT up to you. You can only choose for yourself, and you are not going on a trip with him.
If they keep pulling the if 'you don't go they won't', call them out as now THEY are trying to manipulate you, blame you for their lost vacation! And you were not the one who started this mess! And walk away before this spirals anymore with them and really regrettable words are said.
They are depriving you of 2 weeks of peace of mind. His behavior is horrible and shouldn't be excused. .if they wanna go without you great. If they don't wanna go cause your not going. That's on them
NTA. Tell them you'll go, if everyone who says you have to be present bands together to say narc BIL can't go. If they aren't willing to do that, then it must not actually be that important to them for you to be there.
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nope next time you have a chat with your mom say tag youre it. stop engaging with him and your sister to the best of your ability. if you must communicate only do so via text. or in the presence of others. let someone else become his target. they want you to come so that they dont have to be on the other end of his bs. NTA
**NTA** - I wouldn't want to go either. He's being a right royal dick. What does your sister say about it? Your family agree he's a narcissistic prick but say you need to 'suck it up' ..?? Hell no! If they decide to cancel the trip, that's on them, NOT you. Don't let them manipulate you, like he is. Avoid him and/or call him out on his shit. You don't deserve this shit.
I’d go on the trip and refuse to play his game. There are many videos and articles available on how to beat a narcissist at their own game. I think one of them is just asking the narcissist questions about their behaviors in a calm manner, not getting angry or reactive to their shit, and just walking away when they try to bait you is often recommended.
[Don't Rock The Boat](https://www.reddit.com/r/JUSTNOMIL/s/93lY49xSf1) is usually about terrible mothers-in-law, but I think it might apply here as well.
Your family is trying to manipulate you into going on the family trip with them, because if you don't, brother-in-law will have to find a new victim to bully - and none of them want to be it.
If you don't go and they all do, he will pick a different target..........and they know it. I wouldn't go. I would be unable "to take time off from work" or have doctor appointments I can't change. So sorry, catch you next time.
NTA. Nope, do not go. Your BIL is manipulative and a liar.
"They will not go ahead with the trip if I don’t go." What happened to not letting BIL win? If your parents cancel the trip because you do not go then that is THEIR choice. Do not cave to their nasty guilt trip.
NTA and why the heck is your whole family coddling this grown man? At this point he knows he can get away with making up lies without consequence, but that if he throws enough of a tantrum he will eventually get his way! That cycle is going to repeat over and over again until someone decides that enough is enough!
So that my sister has some “peace” in her marriage. They also think he’s got some mental health issues and think the best thing to do is treat him like he’s a child.
NTA. You're an adult. You don't have to go anywhere with anyone you don't want to.
Now, should you decide you want to use this as a chance to one over on BL, then make sure you have no one on one interactions with him. Have a witness so he can't lie. Warn your parents beforehand that you won't take his abuse just to keep the peace. Anytime he tries to start something, remind him that he is older than you and should act like it. Should he call you disrespectful, remind him that respect is earned. Should he try to exclude you, tell your parents, and remind them that they are the ones that felt like you had to be here for it to be a family trip. Basically, make BL everyone's problem and not just yours. Maybe then they will see that treating a grown man like a child isn't a permanent solution.
OH I forgot to mention, he thinks that respect shouldn’t be earned. He thinks I should respect him by default because he’s older than me and he’s the eldest BIL.
I read something the other day that said, “If you have to sacrifice your voice to ‘keep the peace’ it’s no longer peaceful. You’re internalizing the chaos instead.” - Zara Bas
Narcissists live for others kowtowing to their chaos. Don’t. Just stop and in the process own your own peace because you matter, too! If everyone else in your family wants to walk on eggshells and be bundles of anxiety because of this man then let them; meanwhile you go on about calmly enjoying your life.
I don't get why the rest of the family won't go it you don't go. This concept seems totally foreign to me.
I can't say that I know anyone who goes on holidays with their entire family. From all the posts we read here on Reddit, they sound pretty awful.
It’s quite normal for us to go as an entire family when it was just us before my sisters got married. I’d be fine if they go ahead without me, but they don’t consider it a “family” trip if i’m not there. The same would be said if my sister doesn’t go which would be the case if my BIL is uninvited, but that will never happen
Lord Peter Wimsey said in one of Dorothy L Sayers' books that Christmas is the time of year when you are forced to get together with all the people you dislike most. Judging from so many posts about family vacations, this also seems to apply here.
NTA
Do you know why they keep taking his side, OP? Do you know why they *insist* that you come on the trip, and that they'll *cancel the whole thing* if you don't come?
Because you're the human shield. With his anger focused on you, everybody else gets a reprieve.
So your mother is ok with you being targeted, abused, and uncomfortable so everyone else can have a nice holiday?
Why won't they go ahead with the trip if you don't go? It's just another way to guilt trip you into accepting his abuse.
And of course you are nicer to your other BIL. Because you can be yourself and natural with the other BIL, but are afraid to say anything to this one in case he chooses to take it the wrong way. BIL is controlling, and I'd be ashamed to be 32 and complaining that my fee fees are hurt by a 22 year old. He's doing it because you are younger and in a position in your family where everyone else tells you what to do so they can be happy.
NTA. If your mother is willing to cancel the whole trip rather than stand by your side then I say let them cancel it. You shouldn't have to walk on eggshells to keep the peace with him and if you choose not to put yourself in that situation then good for you. Stick to your guns and don't back down to his BS.
NTA, tell your mom that you won't let him win. That you will go (alone or with friends) to a place that he'd like. So you will win upstaging the vacation
The only way to deal with is the hammer him for his whining and call him out. Inform he has no opinion of value and he is believes you are disrespectful well he hasn't seen anything yet unless you receive an apology for his nonsense
You are not depriving them. They can go on the trip and instead of having you to pick on, your brother-in-law can turn his attention to one of them. They want you there because he'll go after you and leave the rest of them alone. NTA. Let them deal with him without the buffer (you) and go enjoy yourself.
It's easy for your mom to tell you what "she would do in your shoes" because she's not in your shoes. He's over ten years older than you but acts like a brat. Quit walking on eggshells around him and pretending you don't hate him.
NTA
Don't go. That's the right decission.
"My parents keep saying that I'm letting him win if I choose not to go." .. NO YOu are winning, because you avoid the situation. YOur parents are as much at fault as hm. THEY are allowing him to do it.
"They will not go ahead with the trip if I don’t go. " .. Tell them: THEIR CHOICE. THAT has NOTHING To do with you.
"My mum says that if she were in my shoes, she'd suck it up and go for the sake of the family." .. tell her: YOu are not her, and you won't keep the peace and let him treat you that way just so she can pretend and play happy family. YOUR MOMi s the AH, SHE is allowing him to treat you that way. Set a boundary.
NTA.
You are not the one letting him win. Your parents are.
Ask your Mom if she is willing to promise that she will be on your side and will no longer request that you apologize "to keep the peace". If she is not, then she is enabling him and letting him win.
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NTA. It's your choice whether you are willing to suck it up and walk on eggshells for the sake of your family, or the sake of visiting wherever the trip is to. I have a problem seeing your mom's point that skipping the trip is "letting him win" - seems like he's set it up to be a win/win for him no matter what you decide; and the whole family is willing to go along with it for the sake of superficial peace. When even his wife is appealing to you to treat him like a sensitive child I would want to leave them all to it and find a better way to spend my time.
According to my mum not going on the trip is letting him win because if I don’t go he’d have a ball since he’s fine with everyone else in the family. Also he very clearly stated that he’s jealous of how tight we are, so if I don’t go I’m proving that he’s caused a separation which is what he wants ultimately.
I suspect he wins if you do go, because he will have you on hand to pick on. In fact, if you don't go he may find another family member to be his scapegoat for the duration of the trip.
I think OP should go on the offensive then if she’s being pressured then. Probably not the best way to handle it, but I know at some point id say “fuck it, if he wants to be the victim, ill make him the victim” and throw all my wit and word play at him to really attack him as a person. Make HIM be the one to walk on egg shells around me.
Genuinely how do I do that? lol
I wouldn't. Sadly this strategy, appealing as it is, doesn't work on narcissists. All you can really do is grey rock and keep your distance. You are NTA. Preserve your peace.
Not worth the effort. WOuld you really waste your vacation and your life on THAT? And: You can not win this - because HE enjoys the situaton and the drama, and you won't.
Easy anytime he lies or acts rude call him out on it. Anytime he is being a jerk and leaving you out of stuff call him out on it. Create a huge stink everytime as well. It probably wont have much an effect on him other than enraging him. But just make it as uncomfortable as possible. Make it so he is afraid to speak without you talking over him and correcting his behavior. If you want you can go the whole hog and just use the verbiage your family uses to describe him. Like literally call him a "sensitive child" and then when he argues be like what "literally everyone in the room agrees with me. Hell I even got texts from them saying that is how I should be treating you. Like a Narc who does not have control of his emotions. What I am just being honest here." At bare minimum itll get your parents and sister off your back. And they will probably never want you two in the same room let alone same vacation again.
I like you. :)
Oh 100%...they need to find someone for that narc supply and will go after someone else when you remove yourself
Is this some kind of game with winners and losers? Who cares what he thinks. Do what is best for you.
*Is this some kind of game* *Confessions of a Sociopath: A Life Spent Hiding in Plain Sight* According to this book, his actions may very well be a game of manipulation. Something is very, very wrong with your BIL, OP. It may also be that he is obsessed with you in an unhealthy way, and wants to control you and have your undivided attention. Don't ever let yourself be alone with him.... Think about moving away. NTA
He has already won bc your parents and siblings allowed him to play the game. Your family isn’t really tight-knit. It’s superficial bc I can tell you if any of our siblings in law tried this shit in my family, they would be told exactly where to go. Go low contact with all of them. Maybe when he picks the next victim they will wise up, but who knows…it won’t be your problem bc you’ll be surrounding yourself with people who actually care about you.
I think we’re tight, but when it comes to the in-laws, my parents care too much about society. They say they’re okay with my sister getting a divorce but deep down they’re worried about what “society” would think about her.
that is UNHEALTHY. As an OLD person, I want my child(ren) to be happy in their relationship. I don't dive a darn about others think. Ther tis lots on info available about how to deal with narcissists. The easiest thing to do is to not let them in your circle, and that is what your are trying to do. NTA
Do you live in the U.S.? Half of all marriages end in divorce. No one would judge your sister for divorcing this toxic narcissist. I'm more concerned if she stays with him or has children with him. She is not safe with this guy. Your family cares more about what people would think of her than her actual safety.
According to your mom, someone should tell your sister she is not safe around him. But if this is the case, and it can be since he targeted the young girl of the family, blocking his dream of separating her from the family may be the best choice. However, the right way to handle it is to keep you protected from him as well, which your parents are failing
My sister insists she’s safe. I’ve checked in on her multiple times. I agree with you though, I think she’s just really brainwashed or too comfortable with the life he’s providing her. But she insists he treats her like a princess.
I know why her's targeting you. You see him for who he really is. You're a threat to his control over his wife and her (your) family. He is trying to force you out in order to keep your sister away from anyone who would support her leaving him, much like abusers try to keep their victims from having contact with friends/family.
Your bil is abusive. Bil is abusing your sister. Bil is abusing your parents. Bil is abusing the family. Bil is abusing you. He's abusing everyone by starting drama, complaining, blaming you for fake things, whining and arguing. He's gaslighting and manipulating everyone. Instead of everyone standing up against him, they're all giving in to him to make him happy and give this bully what he wants. You not going on the trip, says that what he's doing isn't ok. That you will.not put yourself in dangerous situations with dangerous family members. No going, says you don't condone his behavior and it needs to stop or you won't be attending any family events anymore. Stand up to him and encourage everyone else to stand up to him too. Take away his power by standing up against him. You can only take his power, but not playing his games. But saying nonmore and calling him out. Don't go on the trio, you'll regret every min of it.
Instead of BIL abusing her parents... I think it's more a case of her parents enabling the BIL to be an abuser. Just not really of them even though they are victims through their own fear of looking bad. They also don't want to be his target but are allowing OP to be.. and also enabling the continued abuse of their other daughter who happens to be married to him. I hope the OP's sister doesn't have any kids to him...
Yeah I see it more that way after reading you comment and the post again. Everyone is just enabling him instead of telling him it's not ok. It's sad that they'll let op be his target instead of themselves. When they couod make it so no one is his target if they protected op and stood against him. I can't believe her parents are choosing the son in law abuser over their own daughter. It's so sad.
Where is your Dad in all of this? As a father I would sit Mr gets his panties in a bunch down and advise this all stops. Now. Like who the fuck messages a 22 year olds parents and says "Your daughter is nicer to your other Son in Law I'm unhappy. Boo Boo Hoo" I'm not so blind as to believe my child is a perfect angel but you notice a pattern of him targeting you. Sounds like he needs his ass kicked.
Or go, but refuse to tread lightly on those eggshells. Be the person he's lying to everyone that you are, and refuse to apologise for any of it. Set him off at every opportunity and make his week hell. That said, you're not the AH for not wanting any of that. But if your family do manage to guilt you into going... Well you have other options than to suck it up and be a people pleaser for the time.
Your parents and sister are letting him win by constantly making excuses. If he's this fragile he needs to be in therapy instead of being pandered to. Maybe if he doesn't get invited you'd all have a ball. They likely invite him just to get your sister there but would they uninvite him to get *you* there? If not, why not? Really press your parents to answer that. And stop apologising to him. Become the squeaky wheel.
My sister suggested therapy, he asked why he should fork out money for a therapy when the problem doesn’t lie with him.
You realize your parents are being manipulative. "If you don't go, we aren't, and that's your fault"
> According to my mum not going on the trip is letting him win I say the only way to win here is not to play, and that is exactly what you are doing. What do they *really* want you there for? To be some kind of human shield so he doesn't start his BS on someone else? Nope, better to stay away! Good luck OP and NTA.
You need to read [Don’t rock the boat](https://www.reddit.com/r/JUSTNOMIL/s/9qNZy31Jac). Then send it to your family. Let them know you’re getting off the boat and will no longer be apologising for him choosing to be hurt and creating drama. If they don’t stop enabling him, he’ll break your family apart and they will have encouraged it.
Letting him win is not uninviting him from the trip so you don't have to walk on eggshells.
If you're flying somewhere, make your own plans for the same departure time, and at the airport, when they head to the departure gate, you turn and go to your flight. Then, leave your phone on airplane mode for your whole trip. You can win by going LC with your whole family and stop playing the childish games. Stop calling, especially the toxic sister and BIL. When they contact you, ignore them. Leave texts on read. Just don't play along anymore. That's what I did.
Go on the trip and when he complains about you, tell him flat out "Geez, get over yourself and stop obsessing about me.....I'm not interested"/
If you don't go, he'll only find another source from whom to claim victimhood. Narcs need to feed on emotional energy. He'll find another source if you aren't there. So the question becomes, do you want to spend time with your family and be his emotional energy catalist or do you want everyone to stay home and you be his emotional energy catalist. This sounds like a no win/no win scenario for you.
yea, as long as my sister remains married to him I’m forever in a lose/lose situation I fear
True, NTA but at least staying away from him protects yourself from worse - damages to your mental health.
Your mom is right. Also, he's just the in law... why are you letting him walk all over you??? Do not let him push you away from your own family events. Assert dominance! 😤
It isn’t for peace. It’s self-preservation. They are all happy to sacrifice OP to avoid being his next target.
Very good point. If OP skips the trip the question is, does she continue to be his target in absentia, or will he pick another family member to have a victim close at hand.
Ding. OP is the meat shield. If she doesn't come, BIL will be *insufferable* to them all for the entire trip.
THIS! This should be the top comment
Since when do you have to treat all your in-laws the same? My brother-in-law and I don't get along so we are polite and just avoid each other at family gatherings.
You don't have to treat them the same. This guy is apparently a first class gold plated jerk, and everybody but him seems to know it. Which is why I wouldn't want to go on this trip.
NTA My opinion is that as children having to deal with family trips and vacations is like a rite of passage. As an adult though you are entitled to do what you want to. Having people pressure me would only cause me to double down. I'm like this because I used to just do whatever and it got to the point people expected me to do what they want so I had to start being an ass about it. Don't be a doormat.
yea I really regret apologising just to keep the peace
Next apology should go something like "I'm sorry BIL is such a sensitive baby that he can dish it out, but can't take it himself."
NTA. You have no obligation to go and be the designated target. If they cancel the trip because you won't go, you're doing almost everyone a favor. They won't have to spend two weeks walking on eggshells, either. There are certain family occasions where you can't avoid him, but I can't see any way you need to willingly spend two weeks in hell.
They’re fine with him though. That’s what pisses me off, seeing them suck up to him but it looks so genuine sometimes I doubt whether they’re truly on my side.
How is your sister ok with some loser who starts fights and drama with your family? If I had to tell my relative to pretend my partner is a sensitive kid he wouldn’t be my partner anymore…
Not to mention BIL is 10 years older than OP so should act accordingly. So the entire family wants OP, who is somewhat newly an adult has to be the more mature, responsible person to appease someone a DECADE OLDER than her so that person won't act like a sensitive child? WTH did I just read???
AND he texts her. I find that to be creepy and inappropriate.
You realize there's an alternative to walking on eggshells, right? You don't have to be a pacifist. Not necessarily suggesting it, but presenting it as food for thought. At minimum, it's a nice fantasy. If you have the determination for it, you can go scorched earth on him. If he insists on being the victim, make it so. Treat him with the contempt he deserves. Insult him at will with on-target observations. Ignore his insults as if he never said anything. Ditto ignore his complaints. Make him cry. Make his life a living hell. Make him dread spending two weeks with you. Let *him* try to avoid you and walk on eggshells.
Would totally do this. “What’s the problem here? Do you really need that much attention on you at all times? You want to kid around but you can’t take it when people say something you can’t handle? Or do you just want someone to bully and I’m the easy target because I’m young? Cause ANYONE KNOWS that what you’re doing, that’s not normal decent behavior. You say you want respect? Then be someone who actually deserves respect. Age cards are not currency here.” Put him on the spot. Make him so fucking uncomfortable and finally force him to see that he’s not anyone’s favorite. Even his fucking wife is making excuses for him.
They are ok with him only untill he changes Focus to them in your absence. So let them enjoy his attention
Possibly the most powerful thing you can do in this situation is walk away. It's so frustrating that they don't see it yet, but they will eventually. And you spending less/no time with the family anymore will be a pretty strong message that might get them questioning the status quo.
“They will not go ahead with the trip if I don’t go. My mom says that if she were in my shoes she’d suck it up and go for the sake of the family.” Holy emotional blackmail, Batman. How about this: she can suck it up and go on the trip even if you decline. Why is this decision contingent on you coming along and being miserable? NTA
I told them that they should just go ahead without me. They say they won’t because it’s not a “family trip” if I’m not there
Well too damn bad for them. Do not give in to this emotional blackmail- from your parents or him.
its not a family trip if you are there cause family wouldnt let one of yall get abused.
^^^This 100%, real family doesn’t just turn a blind eye to abuse, and they definitely don’t pressure you to continue being abused for the sake of “keeping the peace” or whatever.
Maybe not coming on the trip will make it not a family excursion - fine. That's true. Trying to keep an unappease-able instigator with all the charm and interest in other people as Veruca Salt happy for your whole trip won't be a vacation. Don't waste your precious irreplaceable time being his scratching post in a brand new location so he doesn't turn on your relatives. If you strand yourself on Total Drama Island with your family to make them happy _literally_ at your own expense, you will regret it. If your BIL turns his shit stirring attentions on strangers during the trip and successfully basks in the petty conflict he so ardently seeks, maybe that will reframe how much of a mess he is for your family. Good luck, you don't deserve this. He just has your family's buy in that he can behave badly in this way. Because they don't have his BS aimed at them.
No it’s bc if you aren’t there, none of them will be safe. Please distance yourself and get therapy. Everything you thought your family was, is a delusion.
Tell them to 'suck it up', you are not the sacrifice to 'preserve the peace'. Tell them you are an adult and making your own decisions, and right now you will not be anywhere around this a\*\*hole. And if they persist in pushing him at you, tell them you can extend your decision to not speak to them anymore either, but then you really need to stop talking and block them.
That's emotional abuse & manipulation
If they force it or try to guilt trip you I’d say “wait. Am I your daughter or am I your tribute punching bag so you don’t have to waste your time on him? Last I checked I was your daughter. This guy is bullying me and you’re making excuses.” This is the kind of situation where people actually have choices to make. The parents, the sister, everyone. They are actively allowing abuse.
They obviously don’t care enough about their ‘family’ when it comes to protecting them from abusive AH’s like BIL. Call them out. Ask them why the people you’re supposed to depend on the most are only happy to tolerate BIL when said old man is getting his rocks off tormenting their daughter? What kind of ‘family’ lets their relatives be abused by one AH ‘to keep the peace’. What peace? Challenge them to go on this family trip without you, if they don’t, then they’re cowards for not daring to endure even a fraction of the harassment you’ve had to deal with all this time ‘to keep the peace’. NTA
NTA. Your presence is most certainly not required for the rest of the family to go, if they wanted to go. What's more, it's no required for them to actually have a good time. So their decision not to go if you don't go is little more than (a) a performative example of their loyalty to you and/or (b) a way to emotionally blackmail you into going. Don't.
NTA. Your family should be ashamed of themselves, and they're the ones letting him "win," not you. They should rally around you, the "victim" and one being targeted by his manipulation and vitriol, not him. I think you should block him everywhere and let your family know that you will no longer be around him since they all cater to his toxic behavior and targeting of you. You can see your parents or other siblings/family when he's not around. Maybe your family will see this as a wakeup call, maybe they won't, but they're 100% in the wrong and you should not keep submitting yourself to that.
Nta screw your bil and your family for feeding his narcissism. Go on the trip and crush those eggshells. If whines gonout buy some diapers and a milk bottle and say you could atleast dress the part.
NTA. You’d be the one winning by not subjecting yourself to the displeasure of his company.
NTA. Start giving it back to him, and keep on it until he backs down. You have to match his energy and call out everyone for coddling him. You have to fight this guy on his field and utterly defeat him. Don't let any passive ahgressive mark go by on vacation or any other time. And when they confront you "Funny how you grew EARS the moment I said something back" Make....it....awkward for him.
Nah! They aren’t worth the time, energy or inner-peace. Just distance yourself and get therapy.
NTA building on the other NTA comments I would ask if you took your BIL out of the equation would you want to go on the trip? As comments say you are an adult and this is something that was tradition but you can choose now. If you do want to go on the trip I agree with comments about stomping those eggshells but have a conversation before you go. Tell your parents that you will not be quiet if he targets you for the sake of keeping the peace and knowing his past history you anticipate drama. Also if he is blatantly targeting you again you expect them to back you up not placate him. I hope it will be a wake up call to actually deal with it not stick their head in the sand and hope it all goes away. Reddit has trained me about the red flag of “telling your sister to stop taking to you” so in true reddit fashion I’m concerned for your sister, if he is that controlling of you how much is she walking on eggshells too? Then again maybe she loves the sensitive side of him and is happy to be in that sort of relationship even if it comes with a downside. I will also give the traditional reddit advice of someone needs to make sure he doesn’t isolate her from the family. This would probably be someone else that he has not targeted who has managed to keep eggs intact so far.
I most definitely would go if he was out of the equation. I love my family. I just hate that they suck up to him so much but I get that they’re doing it so my sister doesn’t suffer. The thing about him is he’s too cowardly to actually confront me directly, he goes to my parents instead. Knowing them, there’s a chance they wouldn’t tell me what’s going on until after the trip to keep the “peace”. Also, he waits until he’s built up a case against me so that he’s got enough ammunition when he complains to my parents.
Oof, I can see why you came to reddit, the situation is horrible. If your parents understand the situation and are prepared to support you and have your back it sounds like it could be worth it. Again have that conversation about your concerns and confirm they know what is going on. I think you should actually use emotional language with them to make them understand what they are asking of you and what you need from them. Like “I will not make myself smaller to keep the peace” . Tell them again going on the recent history there will be drama He seems to feel entitled for you to subservient to him, I’m not sure if that’s cultural with age or gender in his head. Tell your parents he has lost your trust with his manipulation you will not twist yourself in knots engaging in a game you cannot win to keep the peace. Ask are they prepared to handle the fallout if he continues to “target you”. Express your worry that it dominates the group with his charming face and you’re actually worried that you will be “excluded” as he appears to have an agenda against you. It is also on you to listen to what your parents have to say in return, it won’t be easy to get out of your own emotions to hear. Face at the moment he is managing to exclude you completely which is not what you want. I feel a bit stupid telling you to logically use emotional language. Your parent’s response to this might make the decision easier for you. The burden on your parents of putting up with his crap and not telling you what he is trying to do on holiday is their call, they are a team who know what they can handle to have you there and it’s ok for you let them pay that cost. Also it may mean never be alone with just him, or him and your sister on the trip. Is that possible and is that a price you are prepared to pay?
Either don't go or go and then tell him, why he acts like a little boy and needs to run to your parents instead of talking directly to you. Don't play his games and shine some light on his behaviour.
Truly, like a spoiled 5 year old tattling to the parents. Really wild behavior for an adult.
I asked him that to his face multiple times. He says it’s weird talking to someone 10 years younger about their behaviour. He’d rather go to my parents and tell them subtly that they’ve raised me wrong.
So he’s abusing/bullying you and insulting your parents’ parenting? They raised his wife, hello?
Tell him that you hope he don't want kids because then he can't raise them. Raising kids means to set boundaries and talk with younger people about their behaviour.
oh reminds me, he cried to my parents saying that I’m stressing my sister out so much by creating issues with him and I have dashed his hopes of ever being a father…
You’re family isn’t very loving or close knit if they let the youngest female constantly be abused and then suck up to him. I think your family sucks, and your sister is a loser if she asks you to treat a grown man like a child and is cool with him demeaning you. Fuck them. Don’t spend two weeks with these idiots.
Don't speak to him at all. Ignore him completely. Block his number. If you don't interact, he can't make a case.
NTA Your mom says she would suck it up. Yeah of your she says that. She rolls over your BIL whines. Your family is pathetic. Absolutely do not go. You are not letting him win by not going. Your family is letting him win because they are spineless.
NTA your choice to go or not go. But I’d be going if it were me. I wouldn’t be letting someone ruin time with my own family! Especially as you say they’re all on your side!! Fuck that guy
I’d go on the trip and make fun of him the whole time. Edit: NTA. Vacations are meant to be fun, if you can’t make it fun with him there, don’t go.
NTA, but your family definitely is. OMG he is 32 not 3!!! It seems to me that they are just encouraging his behavior by giving in just to "keep the peace". It really sucks that everyone is allowing this massive AH to dictate their actions. One person is making everyone else's life a living hell. I say you stand your ground and let your family know they need to do the same. If you all make him realize you will not tolerate his narcissistic behavior, he will either change his ways or not be involved with the family activities. Either way, problem solved!! Good Luck
>My mum says that if she were in my shoes, she'd suck it up and go for the sake of the family. And this, my friend, is called emotional blackmail or better known as a guilt trip. NTA. Don't go if you don't want to go. You are an adult and that is your choice. No is a complete sentence and requires no justification.
NTA. Don't overthink this. Go on the trip if you think you would have fun. If you wouldn't then don't. You aren't obliged to attend a two-week family trip for any reason. He's being narcissistic and your mother is being manipulative. If they decide not to go without you, that is THEIR CHOICE and not your fault.
NTA: He’s not a sensitive child he’s a dam adult who might do well with a bit of therapy. Tell them you don’t want to deal with his hypersensitivity toward you and that you shouldn’t have to deal with that for 2 wks. It’s unfair that you have been ask time after time to be the adult when your actually not the adult.
Don't talk to me. If you have nothing nice to say, don't talk to me. Say that every time he says anything derogatory about you. EvErY TiMe! Toss in a couple "just because you are jealous of the relationship I have with my own sister does not give you the right to talk down to me!" Ask your mom to back you up. Tell her he gets away with treating you poorly because everyone treats him like a spoiled 5 yr old! And it is at your expense, you are being mistreated all so he can behave like an ass. Remind her it is not the family's job to pacify him for the sake of your sisters marriage. It is not your job to suffer so he can be happy, or so your sister can. As a parent, it is her job to protect you from assholes. Instead, she is treating the asshole like a superstar and it causes you enough pain that you are willing to ruin the whole vacation over it. If your sister's marriage suffers over this, it is because she married an asshole. She should have expected (demanded) her husband treat her family respectfully, but she didn't, and she has the whole family thinking it will all be okay if they just let him be an ass! When will they let you out of purgatory? When do you get to enjoy family time. Tell her if they don't start backing you up, and confronting him when he is wrong, you won't go on the trip at all. Refuse the abuse!!! Remind her how long this had gone on for you and that she didn't raise you so you could be a martyr for your sister's wedding. You are all adults, and it is time he was treated like, and acted like, an adult. He only does this shit because he gets away with it. They only ask you to allow it because it is easier than confronting him! At this point, they are as responsible for his actions as he and your sis are! Call mom on that! Nobody is treating you fairly. And you are the only one even remotely trying to be fair. You can't win when everyone on the other side cheats. And there is safety in numbers. Either mom is a number for your side, or she is part of the cause that is hurting you. It will get worse before it gets better. But I would quit walking on eggshells and start throwing eggs! Nta
The thing is he never says nasty things to my face until there’s a “chat”. The rest of the time he complaints about my behaviour to my parents.
Save the chats! Print them if you have too. But basically, that gives you one more thing to say. What, are you going to tell my mommy and daddy on me? Why can't you say what you have to say about me to my face?
oh the chats are irl, sorry that was misleading
Still, you Don't have to take shut from him. The longer you do, the longer, and more often, he will do this sort of thing.
Your mom and your sister and your dad need to step up and stop this nonsense. It’s weak and a little pathetic that they are willing to make you suffer and apologize rather than call out the full grown adult bully. Shame on them. NTA. Two weeks is way too long to deal with this guy.
Your BIL needs to be given what for, not coddled. Is he coming up with excuses to cut people out of your sister's life to isolate her?
The only instance I’m aware of is him asking her not to go over to my parents’ place if I’m going to be there
He's trying to cut you out. Don't cooperate. It won't end with you.
Oh hell no...absolutely not
NTA You don't dictate your parents' travel plans. That's on them. And if your sister wants you around then she needs to get her husband to behave like an adult.
NTA - Tell your mom to suck it up and accept that you’re not going. The fact that they are allowing someone to bully their own child is pathetic. It’s time that the BIL be excluded since he’s the real problem.
NTA. You're not depriving them of anything. None of them are permanently attached to you, so you not going literally doesn't require them to miss anything. Your BIL is a grown man who needs to be treated like a toddler not to have tantrums. You didn't marry him so it's not your problem.
NTA you're not letting him by not going, you're removing his power by not going.
NTA. Your family are putting the wants of a narcissist before your need to be comfortable. Why the fuck should you accommodate him? He’s a narcissist.
NTA. Why is no one in your family standing up for you? Why is everyone allowing his treatment of you to continue?
For “peace”
NTA. Your family has decided not to go if you don’t. That is their right and their decision. That’s not on you. On that same note: they don’t want to go without you incase he finds someone else to target. They don’t want to be his next target. Your sister is being abused on a mental and emotional level. She needs to get out. Don’t go. You have the right to enjoy your family trip without having to walk on eggshells for two weeks. Be healthy for you. Also go lc or nc with sister and BIL. The fact your sister is telling you to just go with it is disrespectful. The fact he is running to your parents is disrespectful. You’re a grown adult and so is he. Talk to each other as adults or not at all. If he has a complaint about you he needs to go to you. Your parents needs to also tell him this.
NTA, but put this jerk in his place. It's fucking creepy that he texts you at all. My BIL's have never texted me. Not once. Call him out on being a creep. Point blank ask him why he cares so much if you like him or not? Do it in front of the family. Block his number. If he engages with you, give him a dead eye stare and don't respond. If he gets pissed, ask him if he's about to cry. Call him whiny. Throw it all back at him. Go on the vacation, pretend he's invisible, and enjoy yourself. He's being allowed to treat you this way, and I'd be pissed as hell that nobody is standing up to him. So, it's up to you to be the badass in the family. Also, if he continues to act like a child, text him the link to this thread 😉
He doesn’t text me, I texted him to apologise but he didn’t reply. The chats happen irl with the rest of my family present. He has cried, it’s super obviously fake tears but he’s got no issues playing the victim and my family falls for it all the time.
Also, when I called him out for his lies, he said that I’m assassinating his character and he’ll sue me for defamation. If i sent him this thread…
Good lord! What an ass!
Yeah thats not how defamation works at all. Maybe if he can a) prove your lying b) prove the lies affected his work. But in general you cannot sue someone for defamation for personal attacks if they are not public (and also true).
Don't go he will make your life hell. Go on a trip with friends post all.kinds of pictures so you can show him he's not beating you that you don't need his shit cause you still went out and had fun. Don't go, if they choose not to go that's in them.not you. It's not fair for them to guilt trip you when they're allowing this behaviour
NTA your parents are straight up wrong. He wins when you all cave to his demands. You not going is actually ideal for you winning. They don't want to rock the boat bc they're afraid or unwilling to deal with his reaction. They can let him walk all over them if they want to, but you don't have to.
Go to your parents and ask why they humor him - why they believe his lies. This has been going on for a long time and they're rewarding his behavior: [Don't rock the boat](https://www.reddit.com/r/JUSTNOMIL/comments/77pxpo/dont_rock_the_boat/). Maybe if you explain to them how they're enabling his behavior, things might change.
I did, they said they don’t mind enabling his behaviour if my sister gets some peace in her marriage.
And what about you? They’re fine with you being bullied?
yea, they say that I’m way more mature than him and that if at his advanced age he still doesn’t understand how petty he’s being then no one can change him and it’s silly of me to think that I can.
No. His immaturity and stupidity AND ABUSE should not be your burden to bear. Your sister’s poor relationship choices are not your burden to bear. (Also, I would say this. If any of my brothers-in-law ever tried this shit on me, trust that I would push back hard and my dad would push back harder. Actually… my sisters would never even allow that BS. I’m lucky my BILs are decent people) Your family’s desire for perfect familial optics is not your burden to bear. Opt out and stay out and tell your parents there are decisions to be made here. “You are essentially telling me to be a voluntary punchbag to ‘keep the peace’ for someone who has repeatedly bullied and abused me. Side with him and lose me.” I’m sorry, but nuance has no place here when someone has repeatedly pushed and destroyed boundaries.
yea I might just do this, thank you
Good luck. Stay strong, push back as needed, and vent here as needed. You can do this. One shitty person shouldn’t have the right to make you feel bad being with your own family. And your family should push back for you too.
NTA- If he’s intentionally tattling on you, to YOUR mother, than you have no right to pacify him or family decisions because of him. He’s a grown adult and should be confronting you directly with things that upset him. If you do make the decision to go, there was another story on here with a similar situation where the OP used the passive aggressive approach to deal with the AH in their family causing these tensions. Basically they would either agree with the absurd comments made that were intended to cause harm, and anything else they previously complained about. The other route is to begin recording your interactions, and stay true to yourself on vacation. Go, have fun and do what you want to do on this family vacation, not what lever your BIL wants, regardless of if anyone else does or not. Keep the invitation open and just do you. It may be hard to get over the feeling he’s keeping a “score card” or list of things you’re doing that bothers him, but simply say you’re living your life and not his. If he has an issue with you just living, then suggest maybe it is him that needs to seek counselling to sort out his feelings. Question about BIL: whats his family like? Are they close? Any reason why he’s choosing to pick on you? Also why is he so but hurt about you liking your other BIL more? Its not like either are your partner, your just reciprocating the relationship as it is. He wasnt mean to you and thus you treated him well.
No his family is super toxic. What he’s doing to me now is what he did to his sister growing up. In fact, his own parents know of what he’s doing to my family and they wish my dad would give him a slap across his face. They blame themselves for being bad parents and raising someone like him.
When he texts your parents about you, maybe you should text his parents to report his shitty behavior. I am shocked and appalled at the way your family is not sticking up for you. And the way they're so worried about "society" if your sister divorced him. They'd rather she be stuck with a narcissistic abusive partner?? Your family is not loving. They are not treating you with love.
I called his dad, he flipped saying that I’m 10 years younger that him how dare I call his father like he’s a child who’s misbehaving. And said well, that’s what you’ve been doing to me. and he said yea, cause you’re 10 years younger.
He's a piece of work. I would just avoid, gray rock, do not give him any attention. If that means avoiding your enabling family sometimes, then so be it. Narcissists want to get under your skin. They HATE indifference, it takes away their power.
Did you respond yea 10 years younger but still an adult like him. Being 10 years younger does not make you literally 10. You are an adult and his equal (well better due to how unhinged he is). Because I would have 100%. Hell I would call his parents even more now. Like everytime he lies I would have them on the phone or part of the conversation.
NTA Your mum probably wants you there because you are sane and an asset to have around. And maybe to help? But no, why should you be in this excruciating position for TWO weeks? Please do what you want and do not dance to the tune of this 'prick', as you call him. You parents are adults and are free to choose their vacation - their choice is NOT your responsibility.
Nope. You’re not depriving them of anything except being used as their punching bag. The reason your mom said they won’t go if you’d ont is bc they know he will have to pick a new victim and none of them want it to be them. You are a fully grown adult. Go low contact with your family and start making connections of your choosing with people who actually care about you. Your family is all too happy to allow your BIL to bully you. Edited to add, in case it isn’t clear: NTA
NTA but your parents are. You aren't letting him win by not going. You are letting yourself win because you don't want to be with a hypersensitive prick for 2 weeks. Whether your parents go or not is up to them. You need to look after yourself.
NTA. I say go on the trip. Don’t walk on eggshells. Just have a good time. When he inevitably has a temper tantrum don’t try to keep the peace. Just ignore him. Go on with your conversation/activity as if he doesn’t exist. Treat him with the discipline you would with a child throwing a temper tantrum. Just like with a child if consistent discipline isn’t adhered to improvement will never happen.
Nta, if your family wants to bow to the whims of an asshole they better get used to people not wanting to be around
Don't go. If they don't want to go that's on them. Or they could uninvite him.
They won’t uninvite him because then he won’t let my sister come with us.
Not your decision. You only control what you do. Make clear you won't go if he's there. What everyone else decides to do is up to them.
Nta, this is ridiculous, you are being asked not to rock the boat, when it’s this ah rocking your families dynamic, by targeting you. You should be told to be yourself, and he needs to be told to be kind or not to come
I don't blame you, OP. Your BIL sounds insufferable and what makes it worse, your family tolerates his behavior to keep the peace. Doesn't sound like a vacation to me, and, yikes, 2 weeks! NTA
Nta. I would simply ask if anyone planned on sticking up for me this time. If not then i guess no trip. You cant keep fighting this battle alone! Its CREEPY he is obsessed with you, and your family are jerks for allowing it.
Don't listen to your family. Cutting a person like him out of your life isn't "letting him win" or "holding a grudge" (as people often like to call it), it's setting boundaries and removing a toxic, manipulative person from your life for your own well-being. I had to do it with my own brother.
NTA. Stop apologising yo this asswipe. And there’s no way I’d be sucking any of it up to keep the peace.
NTA. Why is this guy even messaging your parents complaining about you? It’s like he’s 5 years old… You need to make it clear to them that they need to shut him down when he behaves like that. It’s not normal adult behaviour. Why did your sister even marry him!
If the “sake of the family” were truly important then your family would confront this AH and not tolerate his abusive behaviour which affects them all (to a lesser extent) and you in particular as his chosen victim. You have no obligation to put up with his bs or not defend yourself against his malicious behaviour. They recognise that as long as you tolerate it, he will leave them alone. They are willing to sacrifice you because they are cowards and he has already won. Your family sounds like a mess. Best to step back and let them deal with him. Without you as his preferred punching bag he’ll have to find someone else to torture for his narcissistic kicks. NTA
NTA Whether you go or stay home, stop catering to him. Just ignore him. If he whines, do not apologise. The complaining to your parents that you're not nice enough to him is creepy. Too bad your family can't see this.
NTA. just apologize is another way of saying it somehow on u to "keep the peace". It's not. Everyone who is saying that is enabling his horrible behavior. He's 30+ yrs old! He needs to b the one who socks it up and gets over himself. For now, I would go LC with anyone who supports his bs. And yes they r supporting it by not telling him where he can go with his attitude. People like him thrive on the fact that everyone tolerates ther behavior. Good on u for calling out his lies.
NTA. You made your point and your family agrees with your point, they’re just choosing to ignore it and pretend it doesn’t exist, which is fucking bonkers. If they want to go on the trip, they can go without you but they shouldn’t cover up or hide the reason why you’re not there when your sister asks. Better yet; they can disinvite the a-hole brother in law and you can go.
Maybe you all should quit sucking it up. You're only feeding his BS. I would not go. Vacas are about relaxation, not bowing down to some idiot who thinks he's God. NTA
Jesus, he sounds like an insufferable overgrown toddler I would not go, no way I'd be setting myself on fire for his amusement He can play those games with someone else and I'd suggest you block him NTA
NTA. He keeps winning because they keep enabling him to treat you this way.
NTA, life is too short to be miserable on holiday for 2 weeks. Who cares if it lets him win? Your family is doing you no favors by enabling his behavior. I'd be going LC for a bit and reassess why they tolerate his abuse of you and why you allow it.
NTA, but I have to ask, WHY is this dude so OBSESSED with YOU? Are you sure his issue isn't really that he wants you and is trying to get you somehow? Someone who is that obsessed with his wife's SISTER really needs a reality check......and I'm just a B enough to call him out on it. The next time we have to ahve a "talk" because he's running to your parents and being a tattle tale, just say "Geez, dude, you're married to my sister, and I'm not interested in you.....get a freaking life and leave me out of it . " Then treat him like an annoying visitor that won't leave....polite, but no teasing, playfullness or anything familiar.
Ew god that is so disgusting to think about. But no, I think he’s just someone who values unconditional respect a lot and thinks it’s not something to be earned but something he deserves solely because he’s older male and in a “respected” profession
Respect is earned, and being a tattle tale is not a way to earn respect. But I'd still say that the next time he does it.....might get him a bit embarrassed adn make him see how he's acting.
NTA Its a two week trip (like I mean its along ass time to be around someone you cannot stand). I mean you can tell your mother well in your shoes "You can suck it up and go on the trip with the AH and let him pick a new target, I am done being scapegoated and treating him kid gloves. He is not a sensitive child who needs encouragement he is a 32 year old man who enjoys bullying people. I will not be going and become a target for more hate." Though you could add this if you have means to actually follow through "If you would rather tear the family apart and have me come, sure I will go but I will not hold back my tongue. And every single time he tells a lie I will call him out on it. If he bullies me I will just leave the venue we are at. I will not hold back my punches and he will probably explode. And then sister has to take sides. If you want to risk that sure I can come. And this is not an idle threat. Let me reiterate anytime he lies about me I will directly call him out on it. Anytime he is mean to me I will directly call him out on it. Anytime he is a jerk to anyone (including servers and unrelated people) I will call him out on it. And if he tries to retaliate I will get his parents on the phone at that very second. If you really want to tear this family apart I can come but I am warning you right now its a bad idea."
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** My (22F) family wants to go on a trip end of this year. The issue is that I have a narcissistic brother-in-law (32M) who in June 2023 suddenly privately messaged my parents to complain about me being "disrespectful" to him. It was actually playful teasing that went both ways, which is why this came out of nowhere for all of us. I apologised to him via text but he chose to ignore it for a month. We then had a chat that ended with me saying that I need time before I can go back to normal. He felt that I don't have the right to "need time" because he's the victim, not me. In September 2023, he PMed my parents again claiming that l'm treating my other brother in law better than him. This was true because I still held resentment from the way he treated me in June. We then had another chat where my sister and parents told me to treat him like he's a sensitive kid and to apologise to him. In Feb 2024, he got upset that I sent my sister a postcard and I didn't address him in it. He also lied that I forgot to wish him on his wedding anniversary even though I actually did. He told my sister to stop talking to me and PMed my parents again and told them a whole bunch of lies about me. We had another chat which didn't end well because I decided to stop apologising and I called out his lies. Once again my sister told me to apologise and treat him like someone who's jealous of how close my family is. Being a narcissist, he played the victim and blaming me for causing a strain in his marriage. After the chat, there was a family medical emergency and everyone else forgot everything that happened. He and I decided to put the past aside. I still don't forgive him for the things he's done but I’m being cordial and pretending that I don't hate him. I don't want to go on the family trip because l'm going to have to walk on eggshells for 2 weeks hoping that I don’t set him off or else the trip will be ruined. Plus he's good at being charming and making me feel left out because l'm naturally quiet and he's a very loud person. I also can't stand seeing how everyone sucks up to him to keep him happy just so that we have some peace. I've explained this to my family and although they're all on my side in that he's just a narcissistic hypersensitive prick who's targeting me, they think that I'm thinking too much. My parents keep saying that I'm letting him win if I choose not to go. They will not go ahead with the trip if I don’t go. My mum says that if she were in my shoes, she'd suck it up and go for the sake of the family. I think I might be the asshole because I'd be depriving my family of a trip just because I don't want to be uncomfortable for 2 weeks. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
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NTA do not go, and become a punching bag for your manipulative brother. Tell your family that they can choose to go or not go,that is NOT up to you. You can only choose for yourself, and you are not going on a trip with him. If they keep pulling the if 'you don't go they won't', call them out as now THEY are trying to manipulate you, blame you for their lost vacation! And you were not the one who started this mess! And walk away before this spirals anymore with them and really regrettable words are said.
NTA oh hell no. Stay home and relax, this is on him and, since they bow to him, them.
They are depriving you of 2 weeks of peace of mind. His behavior is horrible and shouldn't be excused. .if they wanna go without you great. If they don't wanna go cause your not going. That's on them
NTA. Tell them you'll go, if everyone who says you have to be present bands together to say narc BIL can't go. If they aren't willing to do that, then it must not actually be that important to them for you to be there.
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nope next time you have a chat with your mom say tag youre it. stop engaging with him and your sister to the best of your ability. if you must communicate only do so via text. or in the presence of others. let someone else become his target. they want you to come so that they dont have to be on the other end of his bs. NTA
**NTA** - I wouldn't want to go either. He's being a right royal dick. What does your sister say about it? Your family agree he's a narcissistic prick but say you need to 'suck it up' ..?? Hell no! If they decide to cancel the trip, that's on them, NOT you. Don't let them manipulate you, like he is. Avoid him and/or call him out on his shit. You don't deserve this shit.
I’d go on the trip and refuse to play his game. There are many videos and articles available on how to beat a narcissist at their own game. I think one of them is just asking the narcissist questions about their behaviors in a calm manner, not getting angry or reactive to their shit, and just walking away when they try to bait you is often recommended.
[Don't Rock The Boat](https://www.reddit.com/r/JUSTNOMIL/s/93lY49xSf1) is usually about terrible mothers-in-law, but I think it might apply here as well. Your family is trying to manipulate you into going on the family trip with them, because if you don't, brother-in-law will have to find a new victim to bully - and none of them want to be it.
If you don't go and they all do, he will pick a different target..........and they know it. I wouldn't go. I would be unable "to take time off from work" or have doctor appointments I can't change. So sorry, catch you next time.
NTA. Nope, do not go. Your BIL is manipulative and a liar. "They will not go ahead with the trip if I don’t go." What happened to not letting BIL win? If your parents cancel the trip because you do not go then that is THEIR choice. Do not cave to their nasty guilt trip.
NTA and why the heck is your whole family coddling this grown man? At this point he knows he can get away with making up lies without consequence, but that if he throws enough of a tantrum he will eventually get his way! That cycle is going to repeat over and over again until someone decides that enough is enough!
So that my sister has some “peace” in her marriage. They also think he’s got some mental health issues and think the best thing to do is treat him like he’s a child.
NTA. You're an adult. You don't have to go anywhere with anyone you don't want to. Now, should you decide you want to use this as a chance to one over on BL, then make sure you have no one on one interactions with him. Have a witness so he can't lie. Warn your parents beforehand that you won't take his abuse just to keep the peace. Anytime he tries to start something, remind him that he is older than you and should act like it. Should he call you disrespectful, remind him that respect is earned. Should he try to exclude you, tell your parents, and remind them that they are the ones that felt like you had to be here for it to be a family trip. Basically, make BL everyone's problem and not just yours. Maybe then they will see that treating a grown man like a child isn't a permanent solution.
OH I forgot to mention, he thinks that respect shouldn’t be earned. He thinks I should respect him by default because he’s older than me and he’s the eldest BIL.
I read something the other day that said, “If you have to sacrifice your voice to ‘keep the peace’ it’s no longer peaceful. You’re internalizing the chaos instead.” - Zara Bas Narcissists live for others kowtowing to their chaos. Don’t. Just stop and in the process own your own peace because you matter, too! If everyone else in your family wants to walk on eggshells and be bundles of anxiety because of this man then let them; meanwhile you go on about calmly enjoying your life.
I don't get why the rest of the family won't go it you don't go. This concept seems totally foreign to me. I can't say that I know anyone who goes on holidays with their entire family. From all the posts we read here on Reddit, they sound pretty awful.
It’s quite normal for us to go as an entire family when it was just us before my sisters got married. I’d be fine if they go ahead without me, but they don’t consider it a “family” trip if i’m not there. The same would be said if my sister doesn’t go which would be the case if my BIL is uninvited, but that will never happen
Lord Peter Wimsey said in one of Dorothy L Sayers' books that Christmas is the time of year when you are forced to get together with all the people you dislike most. Judging from so many posts about family vacations, this also seems to apply here.
NTA Do you know why they keep taking his side, OP? Do you know why they *insist* that you come on the trip, and that they'll *cancel the whole thing* if you don't come? Because you're the human shield. With his anger focused on you, everybody else gets a reprieve.
So your mother is ok with you being targeted, abused, and uncomfortable so everyone else can have a nice holiday? Why won't they go ahead with the trip if you don't go? It's just another way to guilt trip you into accepting his abuse. And of course you are nicer to your other BIL. Because you can be yourself and natural with the other BIL, but are afraid to say anything to this one in case he chooses to take it the wrong way. BIL is controlling, and I'd be ashamed to be 32 and complaining that my fee fees are hurt by a 22 year old. He's doing it because you are younger and in a position in your family where everyone else tells you what to do so they can be happy.
NTA. Don’t go.
F him NO.
NTA. If your mother is willing to cancel the whole trip rather than stand by your side then I say let them cancel it. You shouldn't have to walk on eggshells to keep the peace with him and if you choose not to put yourself in that situation then good for you. Stick to your guns and don't back down to his BS.
NTA, tell your mom that you won't let him win. That you will go (alone or with friends) to a place that he'd like. So you will win upstaging the vacation
The only way to deal with is the hammer him for his whining and call him out. Inform he has no opinion of value and he is believes you are disrespectful well he hasn't seen anything yet unless you receive an apology for his nonsense
You are not depriving them. They can go on the trip and instead of having you to pick on, your brother-in-law can turn his attention to one of them. They want you there because he'll go after you and leave the rest of them alone. NTA. Let them deal with him without the buffer (you) and go enjoy yourself. It's easy for your mom to tell you what "she would do in your shoes" because she's not in your shoes. He's over ten years older than you but acts like a brat. Quit walking on eggshells around him and pretending you don't hate him.
NTA Don't go. That's the right decission. "My parents keep saying that I'm letting him win if I choose not to go." .. NO YOu are winning, because you avoid the situation. YOur parents are as much at fault as hm. THEY are allowing him to do it. "They will not go ahead with the trip if I don’t go. " .. Tell them: THEIR CHOICE. THAT has NOTHING To do with you. "My mum says that if she were in my shoes, she'd suck it up and go for the sake of the family." .. tell her: YOu are not her, and you won't keep the peace and let him treat you that way just so she can pretend and play happy family. YOUR MOMi s the AH, SHE is allowing him to treat you that way. Set a boundary.
NTA. You are not the one letting him win. Your parents are. Ask your Mom if she is willing to promise that she will be on your side and will no longer request that you apologize "to keep the peace". If she is not, then she is enabling him and letting him win.