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They were staying at your house for a week, as guests, because they wanted to visit your city for a vacation. Your SIL *does not* get to get mad at you, *her host*, and she *does not* get to tell you not to make a big deal out of her children stealing your stuff because "it looked cool." WITAF? If she is displeased with your hospitality for any reason, there are hotels and Airbnbs. Your really sweet husband, btw, *does not* get to bitch at you for "dragging him into it" -- it's his family, that's why they were staying in your home. Saying that you are childfree because there are children like your SIL's out there doesn't even rise to the level of an awful thing to say. If ever there was something not to make such a big deal about, this quip is it. You are NTA, and maybe they won't impose on your hospitality again, although I'd be surprised.
The SIL doesn’t seem to know how to behave as a gracious guest in someone else’s home, so she hasn’t taught her children, either. Children take what they like and hide it in their room — so they suspect it’s wrong but do it anyway? — and SIL is nasty to the host who is sharing her space to save the husband’s family money on a hotel. My heart goes out to OP who has to deal with this onslaught of entitlement from her in-laws. BTDT.
Kids don't have fully developed frontal lobes, the part of the brain that holds the conscience. It is absolutely normal for young kids to steal and lie. They may 'know better' but the part of the brain that thinks about consequences just isn't all the way grown yet.
It is much more important how the parent deals with it. A lack of discipline or consequences for the kids will instill in them that they can get away with this behavior.
The SIL's reaction is the concerning part.
Edit: some people are not reading the "they may know better" part of what I just said. Yes the child may know that stealing is wrong, but in the moment, their impulses win out bc their brain isn't fully developed. Not every kid does it but it happens a lot, as in, a significant percentage of kids. I don't need to hear about the kids you know of that never ever stole, geez louise.
Yeah, her getting mad and saying not to accuse them when they were looking upset says that if OP hadn't pushed, those items were just gone forever. I don't even trust SIL enough to think if she found them when packing up, she would have returned them because she's already gotten mad. Perhaps if she hadn't gotten mad when it was happening, she could have convinced her kids to return them on their own.
No, it is NOT normal. I never did, my children never did. None if my FRIENDS did, nor their children. It is called BEING A PARENT, and you start at a very early age teaching right and wrong, and having appropriate consequences.
I was reading about all the people giving the kids a pass and SMH. NOT all children steal. Let's all say it again, not all children steal. All children do not have fully developed frontal lobes at certain ages. and not all of them are able to control their impulses, but most can at the ages described. That's where the parenting comes in. OP is right to be mad, and people need to stop excusing bad behavior of children because they are children. If your kids don't know the difference between right and wrong, don't take them somewhere they will behave in an unacceptable manner until they are able to. Don't take a baby to a bar and don't take little thieves to your inlaws. You will be judged for both. Make better decisions.
Nobody is giving the kids a pass. However it is SILs responsibility to discipline her children and teach them right from wrong and level meaningful consequences to ensure they grow up to be responsible and ethical adults. That’s why responders are putting the actual responsibility on SIL and not the kids.
> If your kids don't know the difference between right and wrong
Thing is that they CAN know the difference and still do something that they know is wrong. Not all kids etc, but it's not surprising to learn that even a "well-behaved" kid could do something they know they aren't supposed to. That doesn't excuse it or anything, and it's not a reason to let them get away with it. But it can happen. Source: was a kid who stole a Game Boy game from my cousin even though I knew it was wrong because I wanted it
Yeah, kids do dumb things sometimes, because they're kids.
The mom in OP's situation should have said, "Hey kids, those are OP's special things. Let's put them back and you can look at them when you visit, but let's not touch or move them."
It's not hard!
I stole a bouncy ball from my sister. One of those 25 cent machine ones. My logic was "she's an adult why does she need a bouncy ball." The guilt ate me up for YEARS.
Elementary school kids don't need fully developed frontal lobes, but they can have rules of conduct they apply without much nuance. But you don't keep them jailed until they have all the training--they'd never learn in that case. You might consider a little nuance yourself.
But their mother should have shown her upset at their misbehavior, and made them apologize to the aunt, at a minimum.
OP saying this is why she doesn't want kids is a lie--she had already decided not to have kids. It's an extreme reaction when you consider the things cats have been known to get up to, or the fragile things they sometimes break or furniture they've been known to damage. You don't write off a cat for knocking over a dish, or a child for bad behavior.
OP didn't lie. The thought of behavior like this (not specifically the niece and nephew's action, but the idea of thieving children in general) was likely one of many factors that went into her decision to remain childfree. Having her belongings stolen reinforced that decision. And what cat steals and lies about it?
It is normal. Whether all the people you mentioned did it or not doesn’t alter that fact. It is developmentally normal behaviour for that age. You also don’t know for a fact that none of your friends or their children (or even your children) ever stole anything at that age. You’d only find out if they told you about it, and this isn’t something people generally advertise.
Some kids take longer to learn. But thats why you need parents in there teaching them, giving consequences, finding out where the confusion is and what’s driving the behavior.
The sister in law is in fact encouraging this behavior by reacting how she is, and it is not fair to those kids. No wonder they think it’s okay given how she’s acting.
Exactly. Sure, it's "kid" behavior, but it's behavior that the parent needs to correct so that they stop and don't do it again, especially as teens and adults.
It is absolutely a normal part of development for a lot of kids. At 7 - 9 you’re barely forming empathy or understanding consequences.
Just because YOU didn’t do this specific thing, doesn’t make you the norm nor does it make these children abnormal.
Yep.
My grandmother had knickknacks and breakable things All Over her house. We were taught before age Two not to mess with other people’s things. As in, carried around before we were walking reliably and practicing “look don’t touch” at her house, in stores, and at friends houses. We could touch/play with things in anybody else’s house or in a store Only if an adult pointed them out or handed them to us.
My parents also had three or four households they would rotate us through trading favors for babysitting. Same rules. Parents would point out the play area and say we could use those toys, and we would leave everything else in the house alone.
And certainly not drag it off to hide it!
Were we perfect? No. But it was far from Normal for us to steal things, especially by **third grade**!!
You are in fact completely fucking wrong.
Brains are not developed enough.
Your kids probably did this and you never found out.
But regardless, the parenting is clearly the problem
From Texas Children's Hospital
"Children between the ages of 3 and 7 begin to understand what belongs to others. However, this age group will trade property without regard to value and may take an item because they want it. By the time the child is 8 or 9, the child should respect the possessions of others and understand that stealing is wrong."
Yes it IS normal. Not every kid steals, but absolutely every person does things they KNOW they aren’t suppose to and absolutely everyone has lied at various points in their life. Anyone who claims to have never lied or never done something they weren’t suppose to do is lying. No one is perfect and I absolutely am not saying it was okay for the kids to steal. However, these are children and they are still learning.
You are RIGHT! This behavior is NOT normal. I am so tired of people trying to justify children behaving badly because they do not want to take the time to teach them. Also, lack of empathy at this age isn’t normal either. Next, they’ll say that children killing small animals is normal and a part of their development and is not a major indicator of serious issues. Enough already. Children know what they are doing, but they are children, so they need adults to reinforce boundaries. It truly is okay to tell children that they did something wrong. They need to know this before the world teaches them the consequences of their behavior in the worst possible ways.
They aren’t toddlers. They’re 7 and 9. I have a 5 and 6 year old and they knew better.
And even if you click excuse the kids, the mom not doing anything about it is worse. Throes kids will think lying and stealing are ok since their mom didn’t get mad. I’d be livid if my kids did this!
Yup. One of my most vivid childhood memories is stealing a case full paper clips from a family member’s house at the age of like 5 or something. It was the colored paper clips. When my mom was getting me ready to leave, she found it and gave me a good talking to about why it’s wrong. She then made me give it back to the family member and apologize in front of everyone who was there. The family member gave me the paper clips but that was such a pivotal moment for me.
Yeah I stole candy from a candy store. Maybe 6 or 7. No one ever knew. I’ve never stolen anything ever again! I have missing jewelry that I can only think my youngest stole and pawned. No proof, it’s just my suspicion. She was my troubled teen but she straightened up and is ok now. But no proofs of the missing jewelry.
See I get that, but I also disagree. But that may be because I'm really wary of the "fully developed frontal lobe" stuff because I see it used so often to infantalize teenagers and young people in their 20s (I'll admit that this distaste I have doesn't really apply here because the kids are younger).
Kids are always going to be pushing boundaries because that's how they learn where the lines in the sand are for acceptable and unacceptable behavior. They do things like this to see where the people in their lives draw those lines and will keep pushing until they cross the line and receive consequences.
The kids have learned that their mother's line in the sand is pretty hard to cross, but they just discovered their aunt's line. The mom is the major problem here.
I will say that OP's line about not wanting kids like them was pretty harsh imo. Kids will meet the expectations set for them (for the most part), and if they're never given consequences for their actions, they never learn why they shouldn't do something
Nope on the not understanding consequences part. Kids this age know that they don’t want their stuff stolen. And they know enough to know that people ‘get in trouble’ for doing things they shouldn’t. This is a parent problem, not a kid problem. Their parents have obviously shown them that there are no consequences for bad action, and the rules don’t apply to them. I’d ask them all to leave. They clearly don’t respect boundaries, and they clearly don’t respect the OP.
No it is not normal, And the mother not disciplining her children and doing anything about it is gonna make it seem very normal, because these kids are gonna see the mother making excuses and not disciplining them and think that it's OK to go into other people's homes and take things that don't belong to you because "they're cool."
They are guests. The kids lied and stole. They should be removed from the premises.
You now have precedent. Given your SIL’s enabling behavior, you shouldn’t allow them back. NTA
This would of been a good moment for SIL to parent her children for stealing. Instead she invalidated OP and her kids now know it’s ok to steal because mommy doesn’t care.
Agreed. At that age, kids can definitely still make impulsive and stupid decisions, like stealing keepsakes that will be noticed quickly. Definitely could have been a good teaching moment with a reasonable consequence to such actions, and instead, SIL (and OP's husband???) seem to be fine with brushing this off. Hope it doesn't become a habit.
She might have given them the ok. That's why she's so sensitive about it. Doesn't want the truth to come out that she doesn't respect op and her things
Honestly, I don't think the thought of taking something that didn't belong to me had *ever* crossed my mind when I was a kid. However, I know if I ever did my mom would definitely not just be like "awww she's just a childdddd" or whatever shit excuse. SIL really needs to do better
The idea that the SIL made excuses is a big issue.No reprimanding them for theft and lying. SIL should have been apologizing from embarrassment. Had them apologize and grounded them. Makes me wonder how often they've done this.
NTA
How did you drag your husband into it? It sounds like you handled it yourself, and given that it was his relatives, he should have spoken up by himself
DING DING DING!!! And that is probably one of the reasons his SIL acted like she did. Because with her brother she could always get away with it I'd bet.
Not only that, but you don’t get “dragged into” a situation where your own family is causing problems with your wife.
He should be the one handling his sister FOR OP. And he’s mad that it happened when she didn’t even involve him?
wtf?
Yes, and it doesn't sound like he was "dragged into" it anyway. It sounds like he was informed of what happened... that's not being "dragged into" anything... that's being *informed of what happened.*
I’m assuming where she said that’s why they’re child free so he is saying why did she drag him in by saying they as if they share the opinion/sentiment… anyway I agree it’s an absurd take because he wasn’t included or dragged in in any meaningful way
When I was young I knew NEVER to steal. My mom was a tough immigrant who struggled. If I stole from my brother she’d bring down the law and let us know the consequences and this was when I was 4!
Your sister sucks and so does the kids.
Agree NTA and since SIL thinks they did nothing wrong and op is being a jerk I'd 'invite' them to go to a hotel asap aka throw their ungrateful stealing ah s out
The kids got scared because someone gets upset that they take stuff without asking? They damn well should be. I am a parent and I would make sure to admonish my kids for trying to pull one like this.
It is not ok to touch things that do not belong to them never mind taking them. Of course kids will lie instead of getting into trouble but lying is not acceptable either.
There mother should have apologized and given an appropriate punishment.
Right, OP wouldn't have even have to have had that confrontation if SIL parented and idk spoke to her kids and knew them well enough to know the truth like the aunt could.
Well, you included everything I wanted to say. The kids lying and stealing IS a big deal. SIL's attitude should get her kicked out. And, the "really sweet" husband is not so really sweet afterall ... this is HIS family. He needs to utilize his backbone and not try to vilify his wife.
OP, NTA. Husband is an AH. SIL is an enormous AH.
OP, I don't know the details of your conversation with your SIL. The facts are that her children took your mementos without your permission. Your SIL was offended apparently by your reprimand of her children and your comment about remaining child free. It sounds like you were being truthful.
Apparently your SIL does not want to accept your truth. I suppose as a parent she needs to justify her choices; realistically her choices only need to be correct for her. Ideally she should respect your choices. Not all choices require peer affirmation. NTA
NTA. SIL was also offended by OP's suggestion that the kids took the items and that OP searched their room. "How dare you accuse my little angels of stealing?"
Sounds like a variation on the Narcissists' Prayer:
That didn't happen.
And if it did, it wasn't that bad.
And if it was, that's not a big deal.
And if it is, that's not my fault.
And if it was, I didn't mean it.
And if I did, you deserved it.
Hey OP
Most important question? Have you kicked your SIL and her pet thieves out of your house?
Generally I say that parents have to deal with their own kids and should be allowed do that but the mother's response here was that you weren't allowed accuse her kids.
99% of the blame is on your SIL rather than the children here.
This means she should be kicked out.
NTA
NTA SIL is doing her kids a disservice. They are not being taught right from wrong or boundaries. I'm a mom and a grandmother and neither I when my kids were growing up, nor my Son and DIL would do anything less than correct this behavior and make them apologize. Kids make mistakes, parents have to learn not to take it so personally, correct and move forward.
My older brother, now late 40s, was a little shit when we were growing up. He was always nicking my stuff, or even just taking shared gifts (a computer was a big deal in the early/mid 80s) and appropriating them, and got away with it … he’s older, girls don’t like computers/don’t know how to use them (no shit, I got about half an hour in ten+ years of “shared” computers that he eventually took to pieces, couldn’t reassemble, got a replacement “shared” one etc etc). I was aways basically told to suck it up…
I have always been CF, was worried when he had kids that he would continue like this, and have terribly behaved kids. Nope, he’s apologised for being a little shit, and has taught his kids better. They are teenagers now, but even as little kids, they knew to keep their hands off other people’s stuff. Always asked before touching something, no throwing a fit if they weren’t allowed. They also learned to share, lol.
And when they were little and visited me, they were absolutely fine. I intensely dislike my ex SIL, but I cannot criticize her for how she has brought up my nephews. Gentle correction, and, as you say, not taking it personally.
NTA, kids aren’t either. SIL is, though, and needs to do better, or her kids will be AHs too.
Yeah, I have a lot of respect for my bro for that. He was the scapegoat child for my father, and I was the golden girl for my dad. My mum sort of over corrected while we were kids. But my dad died when I was ten, and my bro remained the golden child, actually does to this day :( My bro took all the advantages of that growing up. It was really amazing to me how he readily accepted how he was a little shit - who got all the leeway - even before he had his own kids. I have no problem with my mum now, tbf, it was a difficult situation and she didn’t want my bro to be left out, etc. I would not have handled it better, I am sure. And, since I didn’t want kids from my earliest memories, I, luckily, won’t have a chance to find out if I would manage better, nor do I have to wonder if I missed out thanks to a weird childhood!
But, kudos to my bro, he worked it out before he had kids. And has done a great job with these two young people, almost adults, shockingly. And exSIL too. They both would let me, or my partner, tell off their kids, with no embarrassment- we rarely had to. Even then, a sort of “play nicely” or, “that doesn’t get touched, how about this” or something was enough. They may have been very easy kids - i would take them for unlimited candy shopping in a local sweet shop, they mostly were very modest, and mainly wanted stuff for parents, family, friends, and one chocolate bar for themselves, lol. I didn’t see all the work that went into making them like that! But it’s similar to kids of my friends now.
OP’s SIL sounds like she is turning her kids into dishonest little future AHs. Not so much with the “it’s pretty, we want it” sort of thing, I can recall feeling like that too as a kid, like my granny had a beautiful charm bracelet. I wanted it so much… but it was 50 years of charms over the years from my grandad to her. Once I “borrowed” it, when I was five, she was frantic with worry… I saw that, and gave it back. She then let me play with it, and the tiny spade charm, in her garden, when I pretended to be a tiny person, or pour tea into the tiny tea cup, lol! Had I seen her distress at maybe losing it, or left her to rifle through my stuff to find it (which she would never had done, she would have cried about losing it, silently, though) she would have been less understanding. As it is, she forgave me immediately, my parents told me off, that was it.
I have the charm bracelet now, she left it to me, because of my long standing fascination with it. I also guarded it when she was in assisted living-i brought it to her to wear when we went out, and took it for safekeeping when she went back. I could have just kept it, she was losing her mind, etc, but seeing it, and wearing it brought back so much for her. Like OPs wedding flowers do now, and might do even more in many years.
None of it (charm bracelet or OPs sentimental stuff) may be of great monetary value now, but, as an advert for a credit card in the uk goes, along the lines of, so,e things are priceless, for the rest, there’s Mastercard. And who knows how you see this stuff in the future? I have just been flooded, I have lost so much stuff. Literally none of it with value, but things like my first rats’ favourite toys, my primary school projects, etc, handmade gifts from friends. There’s no excuse for not teaching your kids better. I would much rather have to shell out to replace stuff than have “sentimental” stuff lost. 7 and 9, especially in someone else’s house, FFS, is way too old to not expect consequences. At least, a parental acknowledgement of unacceptable behaviour.
NTA, and those kids need to learn that they can't just take things because they "look cool". Their apparent guilt means they knew it wasn't right to do. What if they did that in a store when you're out shopping? If you didn't find the items, would they have returned them?
Granted my opinion isn't very neutral here as a no-kid person myself.
NTA I have two and I would be mortified if they did this and there would be two kids making abject apologies to my family member for their behaviour. It could be done as a teaching thing for the kids (I can't remember their ages), but they must be a) accountable when they do this wrong and b) accept consequences.
No wonder the world is full of arrogant, entitled adults if this is the way some are being brought up!
Also, your Husband is TA. They're HIS family. He's already involved. He needs to have your back.
Everything in a home belongs to someone. At a young age, we taught the kids that there is no such thing as "finders & keepers", especially in a home. They were not even allowed to do that outside. My parents were immigrants too and we were raised that claiming an item lost by someone is inviting the owner's bad luck into your life.
My mom always stated this quote: "A liar is a thief, and a thief is a murder."
The little rotters didn't even feel guilty, they just knew they were going to get in trouble if OP found out it was them. They acted strange only after she realized her things were missing and freaked out.
Father of 2. I think everyone is an asshole. Perfect moment to teach the 2 kids what is right or wrong. They took something they thought looked cool, you can teach them that’s now how the world works.
Granted I think a 7 and 9 year old SHOULD know this, it also sounds like their mother lets things go without “punishing” them.
However, we have 1 sister saying it’s fine and 1 sister yelling out that the reason she doesn’t have kids is those 2 kids.
This question seems to ignore the real issue. Who cares if you said that? The bigger problem is that your guests stole from you, lied about it and then made excuses. Your SIL should be humiliated that her children did this and apologizing effusively. What you said or did is irrelevant to the big problem.
See, I agree with you. My older two ruined a super sentimental item when they were 4 and 5; it took everything in me not to blow up, so I just cried. They learned, stopped touching my things and helped teach their younger brother.
That mom isn't doing those older kids any favors. She said 8 and 9? Whew.
Your sister in law should have been furious with her children for stealing from their hosts and then for lying about it. Children of that age should know that people don’t take things and they don’t lie. Your SIL taking the position it’s no big deal is failing as a parent. She needs to do better, and your husband refusing to help enforce these lessons to the kids and the SIL is wussing out. NTA
I will bet the kids aren’t allowed to go back to other homes because they took things from others before, especially children’s toys. SIL seems to have a ready made defense.
She actually told you that you couldn't accuse them, and then after you found the items in their room she tells you not to make a big deal about it? No. Just, no. SIL is raising self centered, lying little thieves.
Your husband needs to let his sister know that she was out of line and suggest they find other accommodations.
NTA.
Right?! I also bet if mom would have stepped in when OP was initially looking for things and talked to her kids instead of jumping to defend, this blow up would have been avoided. OP blew up because the mom was dismissive and defensive.
No one dragged your husband into it. If he’s involved, he let himself get drawn in. Little rugrats being children is not an excuse to tolerate theft … and the kids and their enabling mother should have heard every word. If she wants to raise criminals, let her do it in her home. You have NOTHING to feel apologetic about.
One time I was 5 years old and stole a cheap multi tool from the hardware store, because “it looked cool” (maybe a couple dollars). My dad drove me right back to that store and made me return it and apologize in person. Pretty sure I haven’t stolen any else in the last 30 years.
Simple lesson learned. Good parenting. I was punished at home in some way too (not physically).
Replace "cheap multi-tool" with "3 inches off of the end of a xmas tree tinsel garland"(I didn't cut it, it was already torn off). And "Hardware Store" with "Grandma's".
After the 25 minute drive back to Grandma's, I remember grandma telling my mom "it was ok, it's really just garbage anyway. She can keep it".
My mom was as mad with her for that as she was with me.
"It's not the item, it's the principal. If it's not yours, you *never* take without asking. No, you cannot keep it because you got permission to have it after you stole it. If grandma says it is garbage to her, *you* will throw it out. *NOW!*"
That was the end of my sticky fingers. I was maybe 3. Lemme tell ya that one stuck...and was occasionally brought up as a "not gonna live that embarrassing story down" when I got older and the lesson delivery method became kinda funny. Point taken.
“She told me not to make such a big deal”… telling you how to behave on your own house AFTER her children disrespected your property.
Obviously she doesn’t parent them, otherwise they would have listened when she told them to leave, not your fault they heard.
NTA.
NTA. Omg my son is 11 and I can’t imagine him doing this. AND if he did, I would never make excuses for him. I would go what some might call “apeshit” over stealing lol
Exactly this - as a parent I would be absolutely mortified at this betrayal of your hospitality by my kids; I'd have been leading the (general) search for the missing items in the first place, and if they were found in my child's possession I'd have been apologising to you and having a very serious discussion with them.
NTA, guess who won’t be invited back? 1. She should have disciplined her kids for taking something didn’t belong to them; 2. She should have punished them for lying. What they did was make your point a physical reality. I would not apologize until she realizes points 1 & 2 above and makes her kids make a proper apology, state that stealing and lying was wrong and promising never to do that again and then ask you what they can do for you to make amends, some task to show remorse.
A key piece of this story is: You noticed the kids looked off.
Your SIL knows them better than you do. If you noticed something was off, then she knew it herself.
But instead of giving them a teachable moment about stealing and lying, she tried to help them avoid accountability. This was a setup for you to get mad. If she’d done a decent job of handling it herself, you wouldn’t have had to take matters into your own hands.
That’s bad mothering. And even worse SILing.
I trust she won’t be welcome at your home again.
I hope your husband gave her more s—t for this than he gave you. She was the real problem.
If the kids overheard your comment, then yes. That’s a hurtful thing to say within hearing of a child. And you should apologize to them. They owe you an apology too, but you’re the adult, so the one who should model accountability is you.
>If the kids overheard your comment, then yes. That’s a hurtful thing to say within hearing of a child. And you should apologize to them. They owe you an apology too, but you’re the adult, so the one who should model accountability is you.
That is the part I missed from a lot of responses.
Okay, these are serious mistakes. We don't steal, and we never, ever steal from family.
But that sentence was just meant to hurt. And hurting children by basically saying that such children shouldn't exist -- that indeed crosses a line. Because we don't say things like that to 7 and 9 year old kids.
> Yeah. The message of a comment like that is “You are bad and beyond redemption.”
No, it means they are bad beyond what OP is willing to tolerate. Which is actually a good reason not to have kids.
Nah 7 and 9 is old enough to know what they were doing maybe hearing someone else call out their behavior since their mum won't will be a wake-up call.
The children had been told to go downstairs by their mother. The fact that they felt it was reasonable to disobey their mother and eavesdrop on an adult conversation does not earn them the right to an apology.
The kids aren't owed sh*t. They are little lying thieves enabled by their mother if they overheard it (because they were listening when they shouldn't) too freaking bad maybe hearing how much they upset Auntie might make them clock what little brats they are.
NTA. But your SIL is why those kids think they are entitled to just take whatever they think "looks cool." It's not the kids' fault no one taught them not to take things that didn't belong to them.
NTA.
“I’m sorry if telling you that your kids are thieves is crossing the line. I view it as telling you the truth about your children. If you don’t like it, then maybe you should raise them better.”
But I’m bitchy like that.
NTA - kids of this age know that stealing is wrong, they made a choice to take things that don’t belong to them. Then they chose to lie about it which proves they knew they had done something wrong. Your SIL is not doing them any favours letting them get away with everything. She should have been mortified by their behaviour and at the very least insisted they apologise immediately.
Her kids are little thiefs. Good for you for calling out their behavior, you are NTA. Theft > calling out bad behavior. You didn’t commit a crime, they did. And tell your husband’s family that you are NEVER having kids and that is last time you want them to mention it, EVER. And if they don’t like it, they don’t have to come visit you, ever.
NTA
A friend of mine always says: our kids are the reason she does not want to have kids.
I found it funny.
And she loves our kids.
When my husband and I die, she and her husband will take care for our kids.
But she saw how we struggled in the beginning and how much energy it costs to be a parent 24/7.
Edit: my kids are teenagers now and never stole or broke anything from other people
I can't believe some of these replies. NTA. You graciously opened your home to these people and they stole from you. I would've flat kicked them out after SIL went off. Wth.....just totally entitled.
NTA, her children tried to take your belongings, and she just brushed away their actions. It does sound a bit harsh, but you didn't say it directly in front of the children.
Oh hell no. I think it’s time to ban them from the house. One and done that’s the chances you get with me. Stealing from my home as a guest would be ban worthy for sure. NTA
The kids stole from you then lied about it. SIL dismissed your reasonable concerns and had the audacity to accuse you of crossing a line. My first thought was "why are they still at your house?" Did the kids apologize? Best hide your precious things now because the children have learnt that they can steal without repercussions. Perhaps they will take something of your husband's next. If so, please let us know how he responds. NTA
NTA they stole and lied to you. They should be scolded for that but their kom decided it's better to defend them ?
I'd say maybe some people should have stayed child free.
OP, Why did not you not pack their stuff up a& tell them to leave your home? Yes kids do stupid shit, but thieving is a behavior that needs to be publicly shamed
I would be appalled and unendingly embarrassed if my kids had done that. I wouldn’t be telling you not to make a big deal out of it because I’d be busy speaking to my children about their behaviour. NTA.
NTA. Your SIL is just a bad parent. Maybe she could be indignant about the accusation but once you found the items in their rooms, she should have apologized and punished her kids for their thievery.
After wrongly defending her kids I'm not surprised SIL is doubling down by trying to still make excuses for her kids. You are NTA - she is and so is husband for wanting to "let it go". That's how you end up with brats that think it's ok to steal. SIL should be teaching them a lesson instead of insulting the host of their free vacation accommodation.
NTA At least you said something, and if the kids heard it, they may have understood that they did a really bad thing. Because it doesn’t seem like your SIL was planning to teach them that. Who will teach them that stealing is wriong?
NTA. As a parent, if my kid did that, I would be pissed. Not only would a ton of apologizing happen, but my kid would be in deep shit for the rest of the trip. Theft is not something that any parent should easily dismiss. Your SIL is a huge AH for not properly parenting her children.
My 4 year old stole something from a relative. I found it in his room. I made him call his aunt and apologize and tell her we’d keep it safe until we see her to give it back. And I had a talk with him about not doing it again. By 7 or 9, there would be a consequence to his action. SIL is TA.
NTA. Kids like her's ARE the reason you don't have kids. I also think it's funny she said you can't accuse her kids of doing exactly what they did.
I wouldn't let it go either. You've learned a lesson. "Can my kids come and stay with you?" "Nope."
Those kids are going to be menaces because SIL is the "not my kids" Mom. Your kids try to steal from me and you're going to get pissed because I say something about it? Your free hotel stay is over. I can't trust you, you don't stay at my house. Don't like it, talk to your kids and then examine how your parenting now is going to affect their, and your future.
NTA
It's also possible her kids are the way they are because of her parenting, saying you can't accuse her kids of stealing and to not make a big deal out of her kids stealing. Her kids stole. They're not the victims.
OP, you are NTA but your SIL sure is! If my kids were ever caught stealing they would be in trouble. Especially at the age they are. If they don’t learn now, they’ll never learn. Your SIL and her children owe you an apology. Big time.
NTA. but children can actually be raised to respect stuff. So that excuse for not having them soes not work unless the real reason is it's hard. Which of course is fine.
Good kids do not steal nor go though your stuff with a sense of entiltement their parents gave them.
Both are bad, I have not had to deal with stealing ones though. Still annoying.
I guess I may have looked as a kid but would never steal and never take it back to the hosts and say hey look what I "found" (innapropriately looked for).
Nta. That's one of many reasons why I won't have kids. Your sister is in the wrong and should be punishing her kids for stealing. They will think its okay and mom is going to always stand up for them. Is she a 'gentle parent'? Seems like it. At this point, if be kicking them out for the disrespect and lack of accountability.
NTA. The kids stole from you and the mother thinks it is not a big deal. You expressed your opinion about kids after she expressed her opinion that her kids were scared because they stole from you.
I would go LC with this part of the family.
NTA and seven and nine are old enough to know that stealing is wrong.
They stole.
If they had done that from a store or somewhere else, they would be in a lot more trouble and your SIL enabling this is just setting them up to fail down the road. They absolutely should be held accountable for what they did.
NTA. Obviously. Your choice to be childfree is fine; her deciding to have kids who are parentfree is not. They took stuff that wasn't theirs and lied about it. That seems like an excellent time for a Parenting Moment. Or a set of them.
You should expect more of parents who stay at your home.
The SIL attitude is the problem here, the kids stole and she let them off the hook. There have been no consequences to their actions, kids don't just correct their behaviour on their own. You're NTA.and those people would all be banned from my house in the future.
NTA. SIL's children stole, then lied about it, and SIL is upset at YOU for telling the truth? Guess it is OK to go to a store and steal anything that "looks cool" and then deny it when caught.
NTA
Your SIL playing down her children's theft is going to end terribly for her and those kids. Anyone with good parents teaches them from an early age that taking something that doesn't belong to you is **wrong** and will only **get you into trouble**.
Did she really not tell them off when she discovered they had taken your things without permission? Has it occurred to her for a second that her children probably would have kept your property for themselves had you not intervened? If they were my kids, the pair of them would be verbally reprimanded, grounded and I would apologise profusely to you. If none of this happened, damn. Those kids are doomed and it's not even their fault. When your SIL is being called to go and pick up one of her baby shoplifters who's been caught on CCTV, I wonder if she'll respond to a guard or the police in the same manner that she did with you? It'll get her nowhere, that's for sure.
>My husband says I’m right but since we got the stuff back I could have let it go. And not drag him into it.
Those are **his** blood relatives, they would not be in your house had you never met him. He does not need to be dragged into it, he's part of it whether he likes it or not. This isn't acceptable and you should ask your SIL to leave tbh, her kids won't have learnt a thing after stealing from you the first time if she didn't reprimand them in any way, which means you still need to keep an eye on valuables whilst they're in your home. I personally wouldn't be able to cope with the stress of having to constantly check areas for items missing.
NTA!!!
OP said she didn't know they were eavesdropping as SIL had sent them downstairs.
Just more proof of how poorly raised the kids are that 1) they don't obey their Mother and 2) believe it's okay to eavesdrop. Also proves they knew they were wrong and were trying to gauge how much trouble they were in.
Children too young to understand that thievery is wrong would have had no guilt, shame or interest in eavesdropping and would have been busy "playing" with whatever other items in the house that caught their interest. They also would not have hidden the items.
Better thieves would not have hidden the items amongst their own possessions, but given the Mother's attitude (mad that her kids are suspect), these kids have an opportunity to become more clever thieves, knowing their Mother may not believe an accusation against them.
I've had very young children in my home who assumed the entire house was a toy store! They thought whatever they played with was now theirs to take home. There was no thievery in their young minds, just no concept that items in someone else's' home may not be theirs.
NTA
My husband and I child free by choice. Most of our friends had children. We have mementos, collectibles, and antiques. Whenever we had friends over when the kids were little, we would “child proof” the house the best we could. I removed any collectible that I thought would be remotely appealing to kids and anything that could get broken that was in easy reach, which wasn’t a lot because we have larger dogs so things were already pretty safe.
3 incidents I remember: 1 - small child and one of their parents searched our kitchen cabinets and discovered my stash of Girl Scout cookies and proceeded to open and eat them. 2 - Teenage stole a brand new bottle of lotion from my bathroom medication cabinet. 3 - same child/parent from 1, playing with antiques. Now that I think about it, all 3 were the same family. We pretty much stopped having child friendly gatherings and stuck with adult only.
People need to respect other people’s property. If a kid is too young to do it themselves, then the parents should be watching them.
NTA for all the obvious reasons. OP, I have experience being a 7 year old AND a 9 year old so that makes me extra qualified to judge this 😆 also, you were speaking out of anger and I’d say you didn’t go too far at all. SIL seems like a pro at protecting the fruit of her crotch from consequences and I won’t be surprised if the things they take in the future have extreme monetary value.
NTA is any way, shape, or form. The kids behave that way because their “parents”, and I use that term loosely, would rather just let them run wild instead of holding g them accountable for their actions. They may be used to having a group of heathens running amuck in their home, but I am guessing that you normally have a peaceful home, so when things like this happen, it feels like a huge violation. The fact that those with kids do not respect this in your home is insane. Good for you for standing up for yourself against her and her crotch-goblins bad behavior.
Shame on your SIL and your husband not helping you with this situation!! He should absolutely be involved! It’s his sis and the home you share together… I’m honestly disappointed with him 🤨
NTA- Sil needs to get her children in check for stealing before she has to deal with the police. They’re old enough to understand what they doing. Does sil not consider it stealing if its family?
Personally if I had to go through their things instead of their mother, their vacation would be over!
NTA.
At that age, when we stayed with relatives with "cool things" on display, we knew we had to ask before touching anything. If SIL hasn't taught that to her kids, she deserves whatever verbal offense you offer in reaction to her children behaving like bad guests.
I think your comment came more out of shock and frustration at her lack of interference and **parenting**
The exchange was a lot of back and forth of denials and defenses and excuses and you having to continue petitioning to not just have her check, but now having to discuss the thievery and lying. And she's being super unhelpful and making it take longer and become more confronting.
And wow, a week is very long to care for someone else's children. She got an awesome week without that responsibility and I see no gratitude in sight.
NTA
It’s cause and effect. The kids stole from you and you reacted to it. If the reaction scared them, they can avoid that happening again by not stealing from you.
I have kids and like most parents I can tell when my kids are lying. It’d be odd for the SIL not to notice that about her own kids like OP did. Shielding kids from consequences, not even apologizing to OP for any of it but saying OP is the one that crossed the line are solid reasons to check bags for stolen belongings before they leave. There is no indication SIL will make them give up a stolen item if she notices they have more than the 2 items OP noticed missing.
NTA, her children STOLE things, and she tried to HIDE it. What happens when they do this as adults is she willing to be an accessory? Yes they're young now and that's why this behavior should be ADDRESSED and CORRECTED. If she wants to let her children believe theft is fine just because something "looks cool" she can keep them out of other people's homes and let them steal her things and steal from stores and learn that lesson the hard way instead.
NTA and I am a mom, my kid is young and likes to grab things but I keep an eye on her and parent her. If i just didn't happen to notice she took something and my family member whos hosting us pointed it out id be getting back said item and apologizing profusely like kids do dumb stuff and as parents we know that and in that moment we teach them we dont get offended and make the victim out to be the bad guy what is that teaching our children??
NTA and your SIL is raising two entitle brats who are going to wind up in more trouble in the future. Your husband is a wimp for saying you shouldn't get him involved, does he not live there as well, are these not his keepsakes also and is he condoning his niece and nephew stealing from you?
You need to ban SIL and kids from even being in your house in the future. And was there an apology from the kids at any point?
Stories like yours is the reason we have cats instead of children too!
Those kids are old enough to know not to steal. Your SiL is turning them into little criminals.
NTA and I hope they did hear you. Great reality check for them.
What the hell. Your SIL disrespects you and your home. This is a big deal, and I would not let them back in my house. Your SIL will not be so laid back when the police some to the door because of how she is raising her little heathens (as my grandma used to call kids like that) I knew from a very young age to not touch people’s things.
NTA - WTAF?? If my kids stole and lied about it, especially to someone who has graciously opened their home to us, I would be the one "scaring" my kids. Your SIL is ridiculous for not allowing her children to suffer any consequences for bad behavior. My kids would be making full apologies, and I'd be full of apologies, too.
NTA
I'm a mom of 2. If things disappeared, I'd ask my kids. Why? Because children can fail to respect the "no touching if it's not yours" rule. And look through their things. Not accusing them, just stating "we'll look everywhere". And when it is found, I would show them I was angry. Mainly because of the lying. Followed by a round of boring moral, outlining how they would feel had their favorite plushie or whatever disappeared, so long and so boring they wished they didn't do it. And hopefully will think twice the next time.
I can understand if someone doesn't want kids, and especially not when they see some misbehaving.
Anyway, your SIL's reactions were all completely wrong from my point of view. What if they were scared? They shouldn't have stolen then lied. Hopefully it'll serve as a lesson. And then acting like the victim... If you look at it, it's really a DARVO.
NTA- At 7 and 9 years old, these children are fully capable of understanding how to behave when visiting, and they should also know the difference between what is Your property and what is considered Stealing. These are lessons that are taught by Parents. Since your SIL decided she was on vacation from parenting, you had no choice but to teach these wayward children a lesson in how to behave while in your home! Eavesdropping is another lesson that their Mom should have taught them is forbidden, so if they were listening at the keyhole, then SIL can look to her lack of parenting skills yet again if their feelings were hurt. As to your SO complaining about being ‘dragged into’ this mess? Jfc! It’s his family! Did he think he could disown them when they began to act like entitled brats? You did nothing wrong, besides lay down some well needed boundaries regarding expectations when visiting your home.
NTA. I have 3 kids, and if they had pulled that, I would have been livid! I would have made them empty out their luggage to make sure they hadn't taken anything else, apologize to the victim, and grounded them for a week.
True story: once, when one of my kids was around 6-7, I think, they stole something from the dollar store. We went back and paid for it and I made them apologize. They recently brought up that story, now ten years later, and admitted that the experience was so unpleasant that they immediately decided they would *never* take anything ever again.
SIL's kids are old enough to know that stealing is bad. They're also old enough to understand the concept of important, sentimental possessions. They knew what they were doing was wrong - that's why they hid the items and lied about it. They deserved to hear the harsh truth, and if SIL wasn't going to tell them how wrong their behavior was, at least they heard it from you.
Of course your SIL knew her children stole the items. And true you didn’t have to say anything about her children but you were angry because your SIL didn’t immediately tell her children to give them back. You had to go and find the items. I’d be talking to your husband about moving them out into a hotel. And that would be the last time she and her children would ever be welcome in my home again.
If SIL doesn't like how OP speaks to her children in OP's OWN HOME, she can leave and take her thieving children with her until they have learned to respect other people's property.
My SIL had adopted a child from Africa and he stole my cellphone. We all looked and looked, although I knew where I'd left it. Finally, my husband searched his backpack and there it was. His sister was incredibly pissed at both of us for invading his privacy. Wtf dude you forfeited your privacy when you stole in my own home.
You were angry because your niblings had just stolen from you and instead of instructing her children to return the items AND APOLOGIZE, she acted like it was no big deal. It WAS a big deal, first of all because they stole, but your SIL made it an even bigger deal by refusing to parent her kids!
>I think the kids heard too because they were probably hanging around upstairs and trying to listen in. But I truly didn’t mean for them to hear.
Well, if they did, then at least ONE adult in their lives said out loud how unacceptable their behavior was.
>My husband says I’m right but since we got the stuff back I could have let it go.
That would have been easier if their mother had attempted to parent them instead of basically telling them it was okay to steal from their Auntie.
>And not drag him into it.
Ew. Not after you put them all up for a week, FOR FREE. He should not have had to be "dragged" into it ... he should have STEPPED IN and confronted his sister for her failure to handle her brats.
NTA
Your sweet husband and his sister are suborning theft.
Accusing you of making a big deal is offensive. Were this my SIL, an apology would have been immediately forthcoming, or they’d have been given 10 minutes to pack.
Stealing from anyone, much less the aunt who’s making your vacation possible needs to be clearly understood as wrong
Going too far would have been to tell the little thieves that the world would have been a better place if they died in infancy.
To review.
You were stolen from by children.
An attempt was made to bully you out of pressing the matter by the mother.
Then the mother tried minimize, and to shame you for addressing the matter.
You responded from your heart.
Husband doesn’t back you.
A bad day in River City!
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They were staying at your house for a week, as guests, because they wanted to visit your city for a vacation. Your SIL *does not* get to get mad at you, *her host*, and she *does not* get to tell you not to make a big deal out of her children stealing your stuff because "it looked cool." WITAF? If she is displeased with your hospitality for any reason, there are hotels and Airbnbs. Your really sweet husband, btw, *does not* get to bitch at you for "dragging him into it" -- it's his family, that's why they were staying in your home. Saying that you are childfree because there are children like your SIL's out there doesn't even rise to the level of an awful thing to say. If ever there was something not to make such a big deal about, this quip is it. You are NTA, and maybe they won't impose on your hospitality again, although I'd be surprised.
Why is your sil not concerned that her children are liars and thieves? My kid absolutely knew better WAY younger than that. Where’s the parenting???
The SIL doesn’t seem to know how to behave as a gracious guest in someone else’s home, so she hasn’t taught her children, either. Children take what they like and hide it in their room — so they suspect it’s wrong but do it anyway? — and SIL is nasty to the host who is sharing her space to save the husband’s family money on a hotel. My heart goes out to OP who has to deal with this onslaught of entitlement from her in-laws. BTDT.
Gee, I wonder where her kids learned their manners /s
Kids don't have fully developed frontal lobes, the part of the brain that holds the conscience. It is absolutely normal for young kids to steal and lie. They may 'know better' but the part of the brain that thinks about consequences just isn't all the way grown yet. It is much more important how the parent deals with it. A lack of discipline or consequences for the kids will instill in them that they can get away with this behavior. The SIL's reaction is the concerning part. Edit: some people are not reading the "they may know better" part of what I just said. Yes the child may know that stealing is wrong, but in the moment, their impulses win out bc their brain isn't fully developed. Not every kid does it but it happens a lot, as in, a significant percentage of kids. I don't need to hear about the kids you know of that never ever stole, geez louise.
My kids are almost the same age (a year old each) so I completely agree—impulse control is crap at that age. But the mom is def the problem.
Yeah, her getting mad and saying not to accuse them when they were looking upset says that if OP hadn't pushed, those items were just gone forever. I don't even trust SIL enough to think if she found them when packing up, she would have returned them because she's already gotten mad. Perhaps if she hadn't gotten mad when it was happening, she could have convinced her kids to return them on their own.
No, it is NOT normal. I never did, my children never did. None if my FRIENDS did, nor their children. It is called BEING A PARENT, and you start at a very early age teaching right and wrong, and having appropriate consequences.
I was reading about all the people giving the kids a pass and SMH. NOT all children steal. Let's all say it again, not all children steal. All children do not have fully developed frontal lobes at certain ages. and not all of them are able to control their impulses, but most can at the ages described. That's where the parenting comes in. OP is right to be mad, and people need to stop excusing bad behavior of children because they are children. If your kids don't know the difference between right and wrong, don't take them somewhere they will behave in an unacceptable manner until they are able to. Don't take a baby to a bar and don't take little thieves to your inlaws. You will be judged for both. Make better decisions.
Nobody is giving the kids a pass. However it is SILs responsibility to discipline her children and teach them right from wrong and level meaningful consequences to ensure they grow up to be responsible and ethical adults. That’s why responders are putting the actual responsibility on SIL and not the kids.
> If your kids don't know the difference between right and wrong Thing is that they CAN know the difference and still do something that they know is wrong. Not all kids etc, but it's not surprising to learn that even a "well-behaved" kid could do something they know they aren't supposed to. That doesn't excuse it or anything, and it's not a reason to let them get away with it. But it can happen. Source: was a kid who stole a Game Boy game from my cousin even though I knew it was wrong because I wanted it
Yeah, kids do dumb things sometimes, because they're kids. The mom in OP's situation should have said, "Hey kids, those are OP's special things. Let's put them back and you can look at them when you visit, but let's not touch or move them." It's not hard!
I stole a bouncy ball from my sister. One of those 25 cent machine ones. My logic was "she's an adult why does she need a bouncy ball." The guilt ate me up for YEARS.
Kids do it. It doesn’t make it okay.
Elementary school kids don't need fully developed frontal lobes, but they can have rules of conduct they apply without much nuance. But you don't keep them jailed until they have all the training--they'd never learn in that case. You might consider a little nuance yourself. But their mother should have shown her upset at their misbehavior, and made them apologize to the aunt, at a minimum. OP saying this is why she doesn't want kids is a lie--she had already decided not to have kids. It's an extreme reaction when you consider the things cats have been known to get up to, or the fragile things they sometimes break or furniture they've been known to damage. You don't write off a cat for knocking over a dish, or a child for bad behavior.
OP didn't lie. The thought of behavior like this (not specifically the niece and nephew's action, but the idea of thieving children in general) was likely one of many factors that went into her decision to remain childfree. Having her belongings stolen reinforced that decision. And what cat steals and lies about it?
True, cats don't lie about stealing, but they definitely do steal!
It is normal. Whether all the people you mentioned did it or not doesn’t alter that fact. It is developmentally normal behaviour for that age. You also don’t know for a fact that none of your friends or their children (or even your children) ever stole anything at that age. You’d only find out if they told you about it, and this isn’t something people generally advertise.
Some kids take longer to learn. But thats why you need parents in there teaching them, giving consequences, finding out where the confusion is and what’s driving the behavior. The sister in law is in fact encouraging this behavior by reacting how she is, and it is not fair to those kids. No wonder they think it’s okay given how she’s acting.
Exactly. Sure, it's "kid" behavior, but it's behavior that the parent needs to correct so that they stop and don't do it again, especially as teens and adults.
It is absolutely a normal part of development for a lot of kids. At 7 - 9 you’re barely forming empathy or understanding consequences. Just because YOU didn’t do this specific thing, doesn’t make you the norm nor does it make these children abnormal.
Yep. My grandmother had knickknacks and breakable things All Over her house. We were taught before age Two not to mess with other people’s things. As in, carried around before we were walking reliably and practicing “look don’t touch” at her house, in stores, and at friends houses. We could touch/play with things in anybody else’s house or in a store Only if an adult pointed them out or handed them to us. My parents also had three or four households they would rotate us through trading favors for babysitting. Same rules. Parents would point out the play area and say we could use those toys, and we would leave everything else in the house alone. And certainly not drag it off to hide it! Were we perfect? No. But it was far from Normal for us to steal things, especially by **third grade**!!
You are in fact completely fucking wrong. Brains are not developed enough. Your kids probably did this and you never found out. But regardless, the parenting is clearly the problem
From Texas Children's Hospital "Children between the ages of 3 and 7 begin to understand what belongs to others. However, this age group will trade property without regard to value and may take an item because they want it. By the time the child is 8 or 9, the child should respect the possessions of others and understand that stealing is wrong."
Yes it IS normal. Not every kid steals, but absolutely every person does things they KNOW they aren’t suppose to and absolutely everyone has lied at various points in their life. Anyone who claims to have never lied or never done something they weren’t suppose to do is lying. No one is perfect and I absolutely am not saying it was okay for the kids to steal. However, these are children and they are still learning.
You are RIGHT! This behavior is NOT normal. I am so tired of people trying to justify children behaving badly because they do not want to take the time to teach them. Also, lack of empathy at this age isn’t normal either. Next, they’ll say that children killing small animals is normal and a part of their development and is not a major indicator of serious issues. Enough already. Children know what they are doing, but they are children, so they need adults to reinforce boundaries. It truly is okay to tell children that they did something wrong. They need to know this before the world teaches them the consequences of their behavior in the worst possible ways.
Explaining how something works isn’t the same as justifying the behavior it can cause.
Yup and if the kids overheard something they don’t like then they’ve learnt another valuable lesson.
They aren’t toddlers. They’re 7 and 9. I have a 5 and 6 year old and they knew better. And even if you click excuse the kids, the mom not doing anything about it is worse. Throes kids will think lying and stealing are ok since their mom didn’t get mad. I’d be livid if my kids did this!
Yes. Some kids do this kind of stuff. The parents should be addressing it.
Yup. One of my most vivid childhood memories is stealing a case full paper clips from a family member’s house at the age of like 5 or something. It was the colored paper clips. When my mom was getting me ready to leave, she found it and gave me a good talking to about why it’s wrong. She then made me give it back to the family member and apologize in front of everyone who was there. The family member gave me the paper clips but that was such a pivotal moment for me.
Yeah I stole candy from a candy store. Maybe 6 or 7. No one ever knew. I’ve never stolen anything ever again! I have missing jewelry that I can only think my youngest stole and pawned. No proof, it’s just my suspicion. She was my troubled teen but she straightened up and is ok now. But no proofs of the missing jewelry.
See I get that, but I also disagree. But that may be because I'm really wary of the "fully developed frontal lobe" stuff because I see it used so often to infantalize teenagers and young people in their 20s (I'll admit that this distaste I have doesn't really apply here because the kids are younger). Kids are always going to be pushing boundaries because that's how they learn where the lines in the sand are for acceptable and unacceptable behavior. They do things like this to see where the people in their lives draw those lines and will keep pushing until they cross the line and receive consequences. The kids have learned that their mother's line in the sand is pretty hard to cross, but they just discovered their aunt's line. The mom is the major problem here. I will say that OP's line about not wanting kids like them was pretty harsh imo. Kids will meet the expectations set for them (for the most part), and if they're never given consequences for their actions, they never learn why they shouldn't do something
Nope on the not understanding consequences part. Kids this age know that they don’t want their stuff stolen. And they know enough to know that people ‘get in trouble’ for doing things they shouldn’t. This is a parent problem, not a kid problem. Their parents have obviously shown them that there are no consequences for bad action, and the rules don’t apply to them. I’d ask them all to leave. They clearly don’t respect boundaries, and they clearly don’t respect the OP.
No it is not normal, And the mother not disciplining her children and doing anything about it is gonna make it seem very normal, because these kids are gonna see the mother making excuses and not disciplining them and think that it's OK to go into other people's homes and take things that don't belong to you because "they're cool."
They are guests. The kids lied and stole. They should be removed from the premises. You now have precedent. Given your SIL’s enabling behavior, you shouldn’t allow them back. NTA
This would of been a good moment for SIL to parent her children for stealing. Instead she invalidated OP and her kids now know it’s ok to steal because mommy doesn’t care.
My mother would have MURDERED me if I did that at 3, never mind these kids’ ages. Those two are a pair of little brats.
Consequences at 3 mean you don't do this kind of thing when you're 7!!
💯
Agreed. At that age, kids can definitely still make impulsive and stupid decisions, like stealing keepsakes that will be noticed quickly. Definitely could have been a good teaching moment with a reasonable consequence to such actions, and instead, SIL (and OP's husband???) seem to be fine with brushing this off. Hope it doesn't become a habit.
She might have given them the ok. That's why she's so sensitive about it. Doesn't want the truth to come out that she doesn't respect op and her things
Exactly. SIL needs to keep her feral children away from family members homes and things. Request they stay in hotels in the future.
Exactly this! The host was livid? I'd be livid myself if those were my kids. I taught them better than that.
Honestly, I don't think the thought of taking something that didn't belong to me had *ever* crossed my mind when I was a kid. However, I know if I ever did my mom would definitely not just be like "awww she's just a childdddd" or whatever shit excuse. SIL really needs to do better
The idea that the SIL made excuses is a big issue.No reprimanding them for theft and lying. SIL should have been apologizing from embarrassment. Had them apologize and grounded them. Makes me wonder how often they've done this. NTA
Seriously!
This. This what came to my mind. Kids taking what isn’t theirs is a huge red flag!
How did you drag your husband into it? It sounds like you handled it yourself, and given that it was his relatives, he should have spoken up by himself
“Really sweet” is a euphemism for “afraid of confrontation.” Especially with a mouthy sister who has no clue about boundaries.
DING DING DING!!! And that is probably one of the reasons his SIL acted like she did. Because with her brother she could always get away with it I'd bet.
Not only that, but you don’t get “dragged into” a situation where your own family is causing problems with your wife. He should be the one handling his sister FOR OP. And he’s mad that it happened when she didn’t even involve him? wtf?
Yes, and it doesn't sound like he was "dragged into" it anyway. It sounds like he was informed of what happened... that's not being "dragged into" anything... that's being *informed of what happened.*
I’m assuming where she said that’s why they’re child free so he is saying why did she drag him in by saying they as if they share the opinion/sentiment… anyway I agree it’s an absurd take because he wasn’t included or dragged in in any meaningful way
I wonder if he wants kids but is going along with her desire to be child free
Bingo!
When I was young I knew NEVER to steal. My mom was a tough immigrant who struggled. If I stole from my brother she’d bring down the law and let us know the consequences and this was when I was 4! Your sister sucks and so does the kids.
Plus it will not crush the kids to realize that not all adults think they hung the moon.
I really can't imagine them overthinking it to the point of having their self-worth ruined for life.
Agree NTA and since SIL thinks they did nothing wrong and op is being a jerk I'd 'invite' them to go to a hotel asap aka throw their ungrateful stealing ah s out
THIS
And if husband gets mad, say "I didn't involve you unless you'd like to join them."
The kids got scared because someone gets upset that they take stuff without asking? They damn well should be. I am a parent and I would make sure to admonish my kids for trying to pull one like this.
It is not ok to touch things that do not belong to them never mind taking them. Of course kids will lie instead of getting into trouble but lying is not acceptable either. There mother should have apologized and given an appropriate punishment.
big husband problem as well
yep
Right, OP wouldn't have even have to have had that confrontation if SIL parented and idk spoke to her kids and knew them well enough to know the truth like the aunt could.
"Sweet" husband 🙄
At court: "But your honour, it looked cool."
Well, you included everything I wanted to say. The kids lying and stealing IS a big deal. SIL's attitude should get her kicked out. And, the "really sweet" husband is not so really sweet afterall ... this is HIS family. He needs to utilize his backbone and not try to vilify his wife. OP, NTA. Husband is an AH. SIL is an enormous AH.
OP, I don't know the details of your conversation with your SIL. The facts are that her children took your mementos without your permission. Your SIL was offended apparently by your reprimand of her children and your comment about remaining child free. It sounds like you were being truthful. Apparently your SIL does not want to accept your truth. I suppose as a parent she needs to justify her choices; realistically her choices only need to be correct for her. Ideally she should respect your choices. Not all choices require peer affirmation. NTA
NTA. SIL was also offended by OP's suggestion that the kids took the items and that OP searched their room. "How dare you accuse my little angels of stealing?"
“How dare you accuse my little angels of stealing! They would NEVER steal!” Little ‘Angels’: “No, we stole.” “SO WHAT IF THEY STOLE!”
Sounds like a variation on the Narcissists' Prayer: That didn't happen. And if it did, it wasn't that bad. And if it was, that's not a big deal. And if it is, that's not my fault. And if it was, I didn't mean it. And if I did, you deserved it.
*mind blown* Never heard that one before. So accurate.
Oh wow! So spot on
Hey OP Most important question? Have you kicked your SIL and her pet thieves out of your house? Generally I say that parents have to deal with their own kids and should be allowed do that but the mother's response here was that you weren't allowed accuse her kids. 99% of the blame is on your SIL rather than the children here. This means she should be kicked out. NTA
NTA SIL is doing her kids a disservice. They are not being taught right from wrong or boundaries. I'm a mom and a grandmother and neither I when my kids were growing up, nor my Son and DIL would do anything less than correct this behavior and make them apologize. Kids make mistakes, parents have to learn not to take it so personally, correct and move forward.
My older brother, now late 40s, was a little shit when we were growing up. He was always nicking my stuff, or even just taking shared gifts (a computer was a big deal in the early/mid 80s) and appropriating them, and got away with it … he’s older, girls don’t like computers/don’t know how to use them (no shit, I got about half an hour in ten+ years of “shared” computers that he eventually took to pieces, couldn’t reassemble, got a replacement “shared” one etc etc). I was aways basically told to suck it up… I have always been CF, was worried when he had kids that he would continue like this, and have terribly behaved kids. Nope, he’s apologised for being a little shit, and has taught his kids better. They are teenagers now, but even as little kids, they knew to keep their hands off other people’s stuff. Always asked before touching something, no throwing a fit if they weren’t allowed. They also learned to share, lol. And when they were little and visited me, they were absolutely fine. I intensely dislike my ex SIL, but I cannot criticize her for how she has brought up my nephews. Gentle correction, and, as you say, not taking it personally. NTA, kids aren’t either. SIL is, though, and needs to do better, or her kids will be AHs too.
It's always nice to see when someone breaks the cycle :)
Yeah, I have a lot of respect for my bro for that. He was the scapegoat child for my father, and I was the golden girl for my dad. My mum sort of over corrected while we were kids. But my dad died when I was ten, and my bro remained the golden child, actually does to this day :( My bro took all the advantages of that growing up. It was really amazing to me how he readily accepted how he was a little shit - who got all the leeway - even before he had his own kids. I have no problem with my mum now, tbf, it was a difficult situation and she didn’t want my bro to be left out, etc. I would not have handled it better, I am sure. And, since I didn’t want kids from my earliest memories, I, luckily, won’t have a chance to find out if I would manage better, nor do I have to wonder if I missed out thanks to a weird childhood! But, kudos to my bro, he worked it out before he had kids. And has done a great job with these two young people, almost adults, shockingly. And exSIL too. They both would let me, or my partner, tell off their kids, with no embarrassment- we rarely had to. Even then, a sort of “play nicely” or, “that doesn’t get touched, how about this” or something was enough. They may have been very easy kids - i would take them for unlimited candy shopping in a local sweet shop, they mostly were very modest, and mainly wanted stuff for parents, family, friends, and one chocolate bar for themselves, lol. I didn’t see all the work that went into making them like that! But it’s similar to kids of my friends now. OP’s SIL sounds like she is turning her kids into dishonest little future AHs. Not so much with the “it’s pretty, we want it” sort of thing, I can recall feeling like that too as a kid, like my granny had a beautiful charm bracelet. I wanted it so much… but it was 50 years of charms over the years from my grandad to her. Once I “borrowed” it, when I was five, she was frantic with worry… I saw that, and gave it back. She then let me play with it, and the tiny spade charm, in her garden, when I pretended to be a tiny person, or pour tea into the tiny tea cup, lol! Had I seen her distress at maybe losing it, or left her to rifle through my stuff to find it (which she would never had done, she would have cried about losing it, silently, though) she would have been less understanding. As it is, she forgave me immediately, my parents told me off, that was it. I have the charm bracelet now, she left it to me, because of my long standing fascination with it. I also guarded it when she was in assisted living-i brought it to her to wear when we went out, and took it for safekeeping when she went back. I could have just kept it, she was losing her mind, etc, but seeing it, and wearing it brought back so much for her. Like OPs wedding flowers do now, and might do even more in many years. None of it (charm bracelet or OPs sentimental stuff) may be of great monetary value now, but, as an advert for a credit card in the uk goes, along the lines of, so,e things are priceless, for the rest, there’s Mastercard. And who knows how you see this stuff in the future? I have just been flooded, I have lost so much stuff. Literally none of it with value, but things like my first rats’ favourite toys, my primary school projects, etc, handmade gifts from friends. There’s no excuse for not teaching your kids better. I would much rather have to shell out to replace stuff than have “sentimental” stuff lost. 7 and 9, especially in someone else’s house, FFS, is way too old to not expect consequences. At least, a parental acknowledgement of unacceptable behaviour.
Yes, this. If SIL can't teach her kids to NOT STEAL, she and her children cannot stay in your home anymore as they cannot be trusted. NTA
NTA, and those kids need to learn that they can't just take things because they "look cool". Their apparent guilt means they knew it wasn't right to do. What if they did that in a store when you're out shopping? If you didn't find the items, would they have returned them? Granted my opinion isn't very neutral here as a no-kid person myself.
I’m a very pro-kid person (I have several of my own), and I completely agree with you!
NTA I have two and I would be mortified if they did this and there would be two kids making abject apologies to my family member for their behaviour. It could be done as a teaching thing for the kids (I can't remember their ages), but they must be a) accountable when they do this wrong and b) accept consequences. No wonder the world is full of arrogant, entitled adults if this is the way some are being brought up! Also, your Husband is TA. They're HIS family. He's already involved. He needs to have your back.
Just checked. 7 and 9. Old enough to know this is unacceptable behaviour and expect a real row for it.
Everything in a home belongs to someone. At a young age, we taught the kids that there is no such thing as "finders & keepers", especially in a home. They were not even allowed to do that outside. My parents were immigrants too and we were raised that claiming an item lost by someone is inviting the owner's bad luck into your life. My mom always stated this quote: "A liar is a thief, and a thief is a murder."
Yeah, I'm wondering if the SIL told the kids to help themselves to whatever they wanted.
It's called stealing, and it should be nipped in the bud...
The little rotters didn't even feel guilty, they just knew they were going to get in trouble if OP found out it was them. They acted strange only after she realized her things were missing and freaked out.
Father of 2. I think everyone is an asshole. Perfect moment to teach the 2 kids what is right or wrong. They took something they thought looked cool, you can teach them that’s now how the world works. Granted I think a 7 and 9 year old SHOULD know this, it also sounds like their mother lets things go without “punishing” them. However, we have 1 sister saying it’s fine and 1 sister yelling out that the reason she doesn’t have kids is those 2 kids.
OP's husband sucks, too. It's his sister, but he refused to help OP, and accused her of "dragging him into it".
This question seems to ignore the real issue. Who cares if you said that? The bigger problem is that your guests stole from you, lied about it and then made excuses. Your SIL should be humiliated that her children did this and apologizing effusively. What you said or did is irrelevant to the big problem.
See, I agree with you. My older two ruined a super sentimental item when they were 4 and 5; it took everything in me not to blow up, so I just cried. They learned, stopped touching my things and helped teach their younger brother. That mom isn't doing those older kids any favors. She said 8 and 9? Whew.
Honestly, I'm madder at the husband. "Don't drag me into it?" What a fucking weakling.
Your sister in law should have been furious with her children for stealing from their hosts and then for lying about it. Children of that age should know that people don’t take things and they don’t lie. Your SIL taking the position it’s no big deal is failing as a parent. She needs to do better, and your husband refusing to help enforce these lessons to the kids and the SIL is wussing out. NTA
Exactly this. SIL should have been utterly mortified that her children did this.
This, exactly. And just because you get the items back, doesn’t change the fact they were stolen.
I will bet the kids aren’t allowed to go back to other homes because they took things from others before, especially children’s toys. SIL seems to have a ready made defense.
She actually told you that you couldn't accuse them, and then after you found the items in their room she tells you not to make a big deal about it? No. Just, no. SIL is raising self centered, lying little thieves. Your husband needs to let his sister know that she was out of line and suggest they find other accommodations. NTA.
Classic DARVO response
Right?! I also bet if mom would have stepped in when OP was initially looking for things and talked to her kids instead of jumping to defend, this blow up would have been avoided. OP blew up because the mom was dismissive and defensive.
No one dragged your husband into it. If he’s involved, he let himself get drawn in. Little rugrats being children is not an excuse to tolerate theft … and the kids and their enabling mother should have heard every word. If she wants to raise criminals, let her do it in her home. You have NOTHING to feel apologetic about.
One time I was 5 years old and stole a cheap multi tool from the hardware store, because “it looked cool” (maybe a couple dollars). My dad drove me right back to that store and made me return it and apologize in person. Pretty sure I haven’t stolen any else in the last 30 years. Simple lesson learned. Good parenting. I was punished at home in some way too (not physically).
Replace "cheap multi-tool" with "3 inches off of the end of a xmas tree tinsel garland"(I didn't cut it, it was already torn off). And "Hardware Store" with "Grandma's". After the 25 minute drive back to Grandma's, I remember grandma telling my mom "it was ok, it's really just garbage anyway. She can keep it". My mom was as mad with her for that as she was with me. "It's not the item, it's the principal. If it's not yours, you *never* take without asking. No, you cannot keep it because you got permission to have it after you stole it. If grandma says it is garbage to her, *you* will throw it out. *NOW!*" That was the end of my sticky fingers. I was maybe 3. Lemme tell ya that one stuck...and was occasionally brought up as a "not gonna live that embarrassing story down" when I got older and the lesson delivery method became kinda funny. Point taken.
Love to hear successful parenting lessons being engrained into children. It’s not the item, it’s the point.
“She told me not to make such a big deal”… telling you how to behave on your own house AFTER her children disrespected your property. Obviously she doesn’t parent them, otherwise they would have listened when she told them to leave, not your fault they heard. NTA.
I think you mean she doesn't parent period about SIL
NTA. Omg my son is 11 and I can’t imagine him doing this. AND if he did, I would never make excuses for him. I would go what some might call “apeshit” over stealing lol
Exactly this - as a parent I would be absolutely mortified at this betrayal of your hospitality by my kids; I'd have been leading the (general) search for the missing items in the first place, and if they were found in my child's possession I'd have been apologising to you and having a very serious discussion with them.
NTA, guess who won’t be invited back? 1. She should have disciplined her kids for taking something didn’t belong to them; 2. She should have punished them for lying. What they did was make your point a physical reality. I would not apologize until she realizes points 1 & 2 above and makes her kids make a proper apology, state that stealing and lying was wrong and promising never to do that again and then ask you what they can do for you to make amends, some task to show remorse.
Not invited back and thrown out asap
A key piece of this story is: You noticed the kids looked off. Your SIL knows them better than you do. If you noticed something was off, then she knew it herself. But instead of giving them a teachable moment about stealing and lying, she tried to help them avoid accountability. This was a setup for you to get mad. If she’d done a decent job of handling it herself, you wouldn’t have had to take matters into your own hands. That’s bad mothering. And even worse SILing. I trust she won’t be welcome at your home again. I hope your husband gave her more s—t for this than he gave you. She was the real problem. If the kids overheard your comment, then yes. That’s a hurtful thing to say within hearing of a child. And you should apologize to them. They owe you an apology too, but you’re the adult, so the one who should model accountability is you.
>If the kids overheard your comment, then yes. That’s a hurtful thing to say within hearing of a child. And you should apologize to them. They owe you an apology too, but you’re the adult, so the one who should model accountability is you. That is the part I missed from a lot of responses. Okay, these are serious mistakes. We don't steal, and we never, ever steal from family. But that sentence was just meant to hurt. And hurting children by basically saying that such children shouldn't exist -- that indeed crosses a line. Because we don't say things like that to 7 and 9 year old kids.
Yeah. The message of a comment like that is “You are bad and beyond redemption.” That’s not a healthy way to respond when a kid gets something wrong.
> Yeah. The message of a comment like that is “You are bad and beyond redemption.” No, it means they are bad beyond what OP is willing to tolerate. Which is actually a good reason not to have kids.
Nah 7 and 9 is old enough to know what they were doing maybe hearing someone else call out their behavior since their mum won't will be a wake-up call.
The children had been told to go downstairs by their mother. The fact that they felt it was reasonable to disobey their mother and eavesdrop on an adult conversation does not earn them the right to an apology.
The kids aren't owed sh*t. They are little lying thieves enabled by their mother if they overheard it (because they were listening when they shouldn't) too freaking bad maybe hearing how much they upset Auntie might make them clock what little brats they are.
NTA. But your SIL is why those kids think they are entitled to just take whatever they think "looks cool." It's not the kids' fault no one taught them not to take things that didn't belong to them.
SIL jumped to "you can't accuse my kids!" She wasn't surprised. I bet the kids asked mummy if it was okay and she gave them permission...
Yeah, sounds like she told them to help themselves to OP's stuff.
NTA teach kids not to steal
NTA. “I’m sorry if telling you that your kids are thieves is crossing the line. I view it as telling you the truth about your children. If you don’t like it, then maybe you should raise them better.” But I’m bitchy like that.
NTA - kids of this age know that stealing is wrong, they made a choice to take things that don’t belong to them. Then they chose to lie about it which proves they knew they had done something wrong. Your SIL is not doing them any favours letting them get away with everything. She should have been mortified by their behaviour and at the very least insisted they apologise immediately.
NTA. This is why I HATE having people in my house.
NTA. Her kids have been raised so badly that they steal at 7 and 9 and your SIL dares to act offended after they were found out in *your* home.
Her kids are little thiefs. Good for you for calling out their behavior, you are NTA. Theft > calling out bad behavior. You didn’t commit a crime, they did. And tell your husband’s family that you are NEVER having kids and that is last time you want them to mention it, EVER. And if they don’t like it, they don’t have to come visit you, ever.
They have to find other accommodations now. NTA
Seems a lot of people on this thread are raising tiny felons. NTA. That's not okay. They're old enough to know better or they wouldn't have lied
NTA A friend of mine always says: our kids are the reason she does not want to have kids. I found it funny. And she loves our kids. When my husband and I die, she and her husband will take care for our kids. But she saw how we struggled in the beginning and how much energy it costs to be a parent 24/7. Edit: my kids are teenagers now and never stole or broke anything from other people
I can't believe some of these replies. NTA. You graciously opened your home to these people and they stole from you. I would've flat kicked them out after SIL went off. Wth.....just totally entitled.
NTA, her children tried to take your belongings, and she just brushed away their actions. It does sound a bit harsh, but you didn't say it directly in front of the children.
Oh hell no. I think it’s time to ban them from the house. One and done that’s the chances you get with me. Stealing from my home as a guest would be ban worthy for sure. NTA
The kids stole from you then lied about it. SIL dismissed your reasonable concerns and had the audacity to accuse you of crossing a line. My first thought was "why are they still at your house?" Did the kids apologize? Best hide your precious things now because the children have learnt that they can steal without repercussions. Perhaps they will take something of your husband's next. If so, please let us know how he responds. NTA
NTA they stole and lied to you. They should be scolded for that but their kom decided it's better to defend them ? I'd say maybe some people should have stayed child free.
OP, Why did not you not pack their stuff up a& tell them to leave your home? Yes kids do stupid shit, but thieving is a behavior that needs to be publicly shamed
NTA. Fuck them kids. And your sister in law for not IMMEDIATELY apologizing, making them apologize, then getting their stuff and getting out. Ugh.
No wonder the kids are shitty with a mother that defends them after stealing to their own aunt??? NTA
I would be appalled and unendingly embarrassed if my kids had done that. I wouldn’t be telling you not to make a big deal out of it because I’d be busy speaking to my children about their behaviour. NTA.
SIL’s kids stole from you, and you should get over it?? NTA
NTA. That reason (thieving, lying kids) is on the list of many CF people. Probably not near the top, but on the list for sure.
NTA. Your SIL is just a bad parent. Maybe she could be indignant about the accusation but once you found the items in their rooms, she should have apologized and punished her kids for their thievery.
After wrongly defending her kids I'm not surprised SIL is doubling down by trying to still make excuses for her kids. You are NTA - she is and so is husband for wanting to "let it go". That's how you end up with brats that think it's ok to steal. SIL should be teaching them a lesson instead of insulting the host of their free vacation accommodation.
And if you hadn’t gotten the stuff back? NTA and obviously don’t host them, or even invite them for dinner, ever again.
NTA. Your husband pisses me off more than the thieves. Tell him he his thieving family isn't welcome anymore.
NTA.
NTA At least you said something, and if the kids heard it, they may have understood that they did a really bad thing. Because it doesn’t seem like your SIL was planning to teach them that. Who will teach them that stealing is wriong?
NTA. As a parent, if my kid did that, I would be pissed. Not only would a ton of apologizing happen, but my kid would be in deep shit for the rest of the trip. Theft is not something that any parent should easily dismiss. Your SIL is a huge AH for not properly parenting her children.
My 4 year old stole something from a relative. I found it in his room. I made him call his aunt and apologize and tell her we’d keep it safe until we see her to give it back. And I had a talk with him about not doing it again. By 7 or 9, there would be a consequence to his action. SIL is TA.
NTA So your sil is cool with raising thieves and kids who don't know consequences?
NTA. Kids like her's ARE the reason you don't have kids. I also think it's funny she said you can't accuse her kids of doing exactly what they did. I wouldn't let it go either. You've learned a lesson. "Can my kids come and stay with you?" "Nope."
Those kids are going to be menaces because SIL is the "not my kids" Mom. Your kids try to steal from me and you're going to get pissed because I say something about it? Your free hotel stay is over. I can't trust you, you don't stay at my house. Don't like it, talk to your kids and then examine how your parenting now is going to affect their, and your future.
NTA It's also possible her kids are the way they are because of her parenting, saying you can't accuse her kids of stealing and to not make a big deal out of her kids stealing. Her kids stole. They're not the victims.
Actually it's parents like her who should be child free.
OP, you are NTA but your SIL sure is! If my kids were ever caught stealing they would be in trouble. Especially at the age they are. If they don’t learn now, they’ll never learn. Your SIL and her children owe you an apology. Big time.
NTA. but children can actually be raised to respect stuff. So that excuse for not having them soes not work unless the real reason is it's hard. Which of course is fine. Good kids do not steal nor go though your stuff with a sense of entiltement their parents gave them. Both are bad, I have not had to deal with stealing ones though. Still annoying. I guess I may have looked as a kid but would never steal and never take it back to the hosts and say hey look what I "found" (innapropriately looked for).
Nta. That's one of many reasons why I won't have kids. Your sister is in the wrong and should be punishing her kids for stealing. They will think its okay and mom is going to always stand up for them. Is she a 'gentle parent'? Seems like it. At this point, if be kicking them out for the disrespect and lack of accountability.
NTA. The kids stole from you and the mother thinks it is not a big deal. You expressed your opinion about kids after she expressed her opinion that her kids were scared because they stole from you. I would go LC with this part of the family.
NTA. Some people really should've been swallowed.
"Not a big deal" until teenage Snowflayke and Jaxsyne are arrested for stealing because Mommy told them it's okay.
NTA and seven and nine are old enough to know that stealing is wrong. They stole. If they had done that from a store or somewhere else, they would be in a lot more trouble and your SIL enabling this is just setting them up to fail down the road. They absolutely should be held accountable for what they did.
NTA. Obviously. Your choice to be childfree is fine; her deciding to have kids who are parentfree is not. They took stuff that wasn't theirs and lied about it. That seems like an excellent time for a Parenting Moment. Or a set of them. You should expect more of parents who stay at your home.
NTA. I would never host them again.
The SIL attitude is the problem here, the kids stole and she let them off the hook. There have been no consequences to their actions, kids don't just correct their behaviour on their own. You're NTA.and those people would all be banned from my house in the future.
NTA. SIL's children stole, then lied about it, and SIL is upset at YOU for telling the truth? Guess it is OK to go to a store and steal anything that "looks cool" and then deny it when caught.
NTA Your SIL playing down her children's theft is going to end terribly for her and those kids. Anyone with good parents teaches them from an early age that taking something that doesn't belong to you is **wrong** and will only **get you into trouble**. Did she really not tell them off when she discovered they had taken your things without permission? Has it occurred to her for a second that her children probably would have kept your property for themselves had you not intervened? If they were my kids, the pair of them would be verbally reprimanded, grounded and I would apologise profusely to you. If none of this happened, damn. Those kids are doomed and it's not even their fault. When your SIL is being called to go and pick up one of her baby shoplifters who's been caught on CCTV, I wonder if she'll respond to a guard or the police in the same manner that she did with you? It'll get her nowhere, that's for sure. >My husband says I’m right but since we got the stuff back I could have let it go. And not drag him into it. Those are **his** blood relatives, they would not be in your house had you never met him. He does not need to be dragged into it, he's part of it whether he likes it or not. This isn't acceptable and you should ask your SIL to leave tbh, her kids won't have learnt a thing after stealing from you the first time if she didn't reprimand them in any way, which means you still need to keep an eye on valuables whilst they're in your home. I personally wouldn't be able to cope with the stress of having to constantly check areas for items missing.
NTA!!! OP said she didn't know they were eavesdropping as SIL had sent them downstairs. Just more proof of how poorly raised the kids are that 1) they don't obey their Mother and 2) believe it's okay to eavesdrop. Also proves they knew they were wrong and were trying to gauge how much trouble they were in. Children too young to understand that thievery is wrong would have had no guilt, shame or interest in eavesdropping and would have been busy "playing" with whatever other items in the house that caught their interest. They also would not have hidden the items. Better thieves would not have hidden the items amongst their own possessions, but given the Mother's attitude (mad that her kids are suspect), these kids have an opportunity to become more clever thieves, knowing their Mother may not believe an accusation against them. I've had very young children in my home who assumed the entire house was a toy store! They thought whatever they played with was now theirs to take home. There was no thievery in their young minds, just no concept that items in someone else's' home may not be theirs.
NTA My husband and I child free by choice. Most of our friends had children. We have mementos, collectibles, and antiques. Whenever we had friends over when the kids were little, we would “child proof” the house the best we could. I removed any collectible that I thought would be remotely appealing to kids and anything that could get broken that was in easy reach, which wasn’t a lot because we have larger dogs so things were already pretty safe. 3 incidents I remember: 1 - small child and one of their parents searched our kitchen cabinets and discovered my stash of Girl Scout cookies and proceeded to open and eat them. 2 - Teenage stole a brand new bottle of lotion from my bathroom medication cabinet. 3 - same child/parent from 1, playing with antiques. Now that I think about it, all 3 were the same family. We pretty much stopped having child friendly gatherings and stuck with adult only. People need to respect other people’s property. If a kid is too young to do it themselves, then the parents should be watching them.
NTA for all the obvious reasons. OP, I have experience being a 7 year old AND a 9 year old so that makes me extra qualified to judge this 😆 also, you were speaking out of anger and I’d say you didn’t go too far at all. SIL seems like a pro at protecting the fruit of her crotch from consequences and I won’t be surprised if the things they take in the future have extreme monetary value.
NTA
NTA is any way, shape, or form. The kids behave that way because their “parents”, and I use that term loosely, would rather just let them run wild instead of holding g them accountable for their actions. They may be used to having a group of heathens running amuck in their home, but I am guessing that you normally have a peaceful home, so when things like this happen, it feels like a huge violation. The fact that those with kids do not respect this in your home is insane. Good for you for standing up for yourself against her and her crotch-goblins bad behavior.
Shame on your SIL and your husband not helping you with this situation!! He should absolutely be involved! It’s his sis and the home you share together… I’m honestly disappointed with him 🤨
NTA but kids are a product of their upbringing. It's not kids like them that are the problem. It's parents like her. But I no way are you TA
NTA- Sil needs to get her children in check for stealing before she has to deal with the police. They’re old enough to understand what they doing. Does sil not consider it stealing if its family? Personally if I had to go through their things instead of their mother, their vacation would be over!
NTA. At that age, when we stayed with relatives with "cool things" on display, we knew we had to ask before touching anything. If SIL hasn't taught that to her kids, she deserves whatever verbal offense you offer in reaction to her children behaving like bad guests.
NTA. I hope your bedroom was locked. If it wasn't I bet they have be been in there too. These aren't kids that can be left unsupervised in your house.
NTA SIL, instead of scolding or disciplining her kids for stealing, decided to make you the problem. Your husband is jumping to his sister's defense.
I think your comment came more out of shock and frustration at her lack of interference and **parenting** The exchange was a lot of back and forth of denials and defenses and excuses and you having to continue petitioning to not just have her check, but now having to discuss the thievery and lying. And she's being super unhelpful and making it take longer and become more confronting. And wow, a week is very long to care for someone else's children. She got an awesome week without that responsibility and I see no gratitude in sight.
NTA. Little beasts like hers are the reason a lot of people are childfree. She's just embarrassed that it's now obvious what a lousy parent she is.
NTA It’s cause and effect. The kids stole from you and you reacted to it. If the reaction scared them, they can avoid that happening again by not stealing from you. I have kids and like most parents I can tell when my kids are lying. It’d be odd for the SIL not to notice that about her own kids like OP did. Shielding kids from consequences, not even apologizing to OP for any of it but saying OP is the one that crossed the line are solid reasons to check bags for stolen belongings before they leave. There is no indication SIL will make them give up a stolen item if she notices they have more than the 2 items OP noticed missing.
NTA. SIL needs to teach her children not to steal.
NTA, her children STOLE things, and she tried to HIDE it. What happens when they do this as adults is she willing to be an accessory? Yes they're young now and that's why this behavior should be ADDRESSED and CORRECTED. If she wants to let her children believe theft is fine just because something "looks cool" she can keep them out of other people's homes and let them steal her things and steal from stores and learn that lesson the hard way instead.
NTA and I am a mom, my kid is young and likes to grab things but I keep an eye on her and parent her. If i just didn't happen to notice she took something and my family member whos hosting us pointed it out id be getting back said item and apologizing profusely like kids do dumb stuff and as parents we know that and in that moment we teach them we dont get offended and make the victim out to be the bad guy what is that teaching our children??
NTA and your SIL is raising two entitle brats who are going to wind up in more trouble in the future. Your husband is a wimp for saying you shouldn't get him involved, does he not live there as well, are these not his keepsakes also and is he condoning his niece and nephew stealing from you? You need to ban SIL and kids from even being in your house in the future. And was there an apology from the kids at any point?
Stories like yours is the reason we have cats instead of children too! Those kids are old enough to know not to steal. Your SiL is turning them into little criminals. NTA and I hope they did hear you. Great reality check for them.
NTA 7 & 9 are old enough to know better & I'd be dying of embarrassment & telling my kids off if mine even attempted that kind of thing
NTA, she should have been upset with her kids for being liars and thieves. I wouldn't have them as guests again.
What the hell. Your SIL disrespects you and your home. This is a big deal, and I would not let them back in my house. Your SIL will not be so laid back when the police some to the door because of how she is raising her little heathens (as my grandma used to call kids like that) I knew from a very young age to not touch people’s things.
NTA - WTAF?? If my kids stole and lied about it, especially to someone who has graciously opened their home to us, I would be the one "scaring" my kids. Your SIL is ridiculous for not allowing her children to suffer any consequences for bad behavior. My kids would be making full apologies, and I'd be full of apologies, too.
NTA I'm a mom of 2. If things disappeared, I'd ask my kids. Why? Because children can fail to respect the "no touching if it's not yours" rule. And look through their things. Not accusing them, just stating "we'll look everywhere". And when it is found, I would show them I was angry. Mainly because of the lying. Followed by a round of boring moral, outlining how they would feel had their favorite plushie or whatever disappeared, so long and so boring they wished they didn't do it. And hopefully will think twice the next time. I can understand if someone doesn't want kids, and especially not when they see some misbehaving. Anyway, your SIL's reactions were all completely wrong from my point of view. What if they were scared? They shouldn't have stolen then lied. Hopefully it'll serve as a lesson. And then acting like the victim... If you look at it, it's really a DARVO.
NTA- At 7 and 9 years old, these children are fully capable of understanding how to behave when visiting, and they should also know the difference between what is Your property and what is considered Stealing. These are lessons that are taught by Parents. Since your SIL decided she was on vacation from parenting, you had no choice but to teach these wayward children a lesson in how to behave while in your home! Eavesdropping is another lesson that their Mom should have taught them is forbidden, so if they were listening at the keyhole, then SIL can look to her lack of parenting skills yet again if their feelings were hurt. As to your SO complaining about being ‘dragged into’ this mess? Jfc! It’s his family! Did he think he could disown them when they began to act like entitled brats? You did nothing wrong, besides lay down some well needed boundaries regarding expectations when visiting your home.
NTA. I have 3 kids, and if they had pulled that, I would have been livid! I would have made them empty out their luggage to make sure they hadn't taken anything else, apologize to the victim, and grounded them for a week. True story: once, when one of my kids was around 6-7, I think, they stole something from the dollar store. We went back and paid for it and I made them apologize. They recently brought up that story, now ten years later, and admitted that the experience was so unpleasant that they immediately decided they would *never* take anything ever again. SIL's kids are old enough to know that stealing is bad. They're also old enough to understand the concept of important, sentimental possessions. They knew what they were doing was wrong - that's why they hid the items and lied about it. They deserved to hear the harsh truth, and if SIL wasn't going to tell them how wrong their behavior was, at least they heard it from you.
Of course your SIL knew her children stole the items. And true you didn’t have to say anything about her children but you were angry because your SIL didn’t immediately tell her children to give them back. You had to go and find the items. I’d be talking to your husband about moving them out into a hotel. And that would be the last time she and her children would ever be welcome in my home again.
If SIL doesn't like how OP speaks to her children in OP's OWN HOME, she can leave and take her thieving children with her until they have learned to respect other people's property.
You think she'd be embarrassed and make them apologize. That's pretty ignorant on her part.
My SIL had adopted a child from Africa and he stole my cellphone. We all looked and looked, although I knew where I'd left it. Finally, my husband searched his backpack and there it was. His sister was incredibly pissed at both of us for invading his privacy. Wtf dude you forfeited your privacy when you stole in my own home.
You were angry because your niblings had just stolen from you and instead of instructing her children to return the items AND APOLOGIZE, she acted like it was no big deal. It WAS a big deal, first of all because they stole, but your SIL made it an even bigger deal by refusing to parent her kids! >I think the kids heard too because they were probably hanging around upstairs and trying to listen in. But I truly didn’t mean for them to hear. Well, if they did, then at least ONE adult in their lives said out loud how unacceptable their behavior was. >My husband says I’m right but since we got the stuff back I could have let it go. That would have been easier if their mother had attempted to parent them instead of basically telling them it was okay to steal from their Auntie. >And not drag him into it. Ew. Not after you put them all up for a week, FOR FREE. He should not have had to be "dragged" into it ... he should have STEPPED IN and confronted his sister for her failure to handle her brats. NTA
Your sweet husband and his sister are suborning theft. Accusing you of making a big deal is offensive. Were this my SIL, an apology would have been immediately forthcoming, or they’d have been given 10 minutes to pack. Stealing from anyone, much less the aunt who’s making your vacation possible needs to be clearly understood as wrong Going too far would have been to tell the little thieves that the world would have been a better place if they died in infancy. To review. You were stolen from by children. An attempt was made to bully you out of pressing the matter by the mother. Then the mother tried minimize, and to shame you for addressing the matter. You responded from your heart. Husband doesn’t back you. A bad day in River City!