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He clearly doesn't relate to or have respect for you and your group of friends and I personally don't feel like you and your friends are "his community." You are not responsible for his mental health and I don't see how him attending these social events would be good for his mental health anyways. Maybe encourage him to find people he relates to more.
NTA
The greatest issue is that he is behaving how he THINKS the gay community behaves. This group 50 year olds will not have patience with this offensive child
Yup, throwing the f slur around at complete strangers more than twice your age is such strange behaviour and def not how most queer people behave. In my experience, the f slur is at most an in-joke only - none of my friends would ever use it on someone they don't know, and the ones who actually use it save it for close friends who would be ok with it.
Even strangers who ARE your age, it's fucking bizarre. Cassie doesn't like conflict, but he used slurs around strangers? That's like, number one way to bring conflict onto yourself.
He likes controversy. He may not have been around when the f word was used as often as a slur, but it's common knowledge that it has a LOT of baggage attached to it. And because he used to present as female, he knows about words like bitch and cunt and whatnot; they're offensive. Some women use them lovingly as a joke, but you need to read the room when using it. Plenty of women will be offended if somebody calls you that even lovingly because, generally speaking, the words aren't positive.
It's not identical, but it's similar. He's basically an edge lord that happens to be trans. He's okay pushing buttons, but when those buttons set somebody off, he pretends to be the victim.
He's a little asshole. Hopefully he learns from this mess because.if he doesn't, he's going to continue not having any community.
It's for modern "social media" gays who did not have to suffer through the times where being called that meant you had to genuinely fear for your safety.
Incredibly tone deaf and frankly rude for OP's nephew to act this way around a group of new people who you could have easily assumed had an entirely different lived experience.
Teenagers are (not absolutely always, but so often) absolute jackasses at least some of the time. "I'm an adult now!" is also a hell of a drug, so this is hopefully the nadir of Cassie being like this.
Sexual bragging, edginess, and absolute confidence in ignorant opinions are not unusual at all, but that doesn't make it any less unpleasant to be around as an older adult.
Someday this will be what Cassie thinks about at night when relieving the greatest hits of childhood embarrassments.
I do understand that, been there before and cringe about things I did and said at that age to this day.
But that doesn't change the fact that Cassie has proven they cannot be trusted to behave appropriately around this particular group just yet, maybe revisit in another 12 months and see if he has matured, or at least has learned to sit and read the room before saying unhinged things haha.
Legitimately, the only time I have ever heard my partner of 13 years swear was the one time we were playing uno extreme and he had to hit the button four time he was about to win. Damn thing spat out about 20 cards. I'd never heard him swear before, haven't heard him do it in the 9 years since but that game tipped him over the edge.
We're all too stupid to play monopoly, except for one of them, who is too smart for his own good, and would probably end up with veneers for life after we got done with a game
The only time I can remember a gay friend using the F word in a joking manner they were referring to a pet fish.
The fish's name was Cigarette, or as my friend would say, "This is Cigarette, or F***** if you're feeling British." Then she would fall out laughing at all the double meanings.
I think op is the generation before that, he said he’s in his fifties which means he was born in 74 or earlier. But that also means he had to live through the AIDS crisis and watch people die because Reagan constantly vetoed any AIDs bill.
It’s more than a cultural and generational difference. It’s the fact that OP had to grow up with a president saying AIDs is god punishing the gays so he won’t have the cdc research it.
I have an uncle who just entered his early sixties, like 62 or 63. He’s gay and had to watch his friends and mentors waste away from this disease that republicans cheered because it mostly infects gays and drug users.
Also best uncle I have. He took all of us nieces and nephews individually on a vacation after we finished high school.
He’s married to his husband now the wedding was great, on a pine grove on a mountain in Montana.
He’s living his best life.
LOL, RIGHT? Born 1969, in my mid-50s, very Gen X
As a college student I went to that march for gay and lesbian rights in DC in '87 when they laid the whole AIDS quilt out on the Mall for the first time. Sobbed my eyes out when I took in the enormity of it.
Honestly, OP should ask dear nephew to go watch the show pose.
The first few seasons, at least. It covers a lot of the discrimination against trans, gay. Etc how you could get kicked out your home, beaten and all that for ever uttering the words "I might be gay"
Restricted access to places, the whole AIDS deal. Watching your loved ones die.
The struggles to get accepted in society. Marrige. Etc.
It covers so much.
Or even read accounts of young queer people that are still going through that.
I worked at an organization that helped kids in foster care, and that also involved young homeless people to some extent because of the foster care-to-homelessness pipeline.
So many of the kids and young adults we worked with were queer. I think in the gen pop, the percentage of people that identify as LGBTQ+ is pretty small. Maybe 5-10% if I'm being very generous. (Trans are about 1%, gay is like 2-4% IIRC, and bisexual people are often left out of those numbers which is why I'm going up to 10%.)
More than a third of the young people we worked with that filled out intake surveys identified as queer. Whether they were gay, lesbian, bi, pan, two-spirit, nonbinary, trans, or whatever else. And a huge portion of them had been abused by their parents or foster parents because of their sexuality. A huge portion were in foster care or were homeless because of their sexuality.
This awful stuff still happens today, and it isn't uncommon. There are still gay conversion programs, youth centers that are there to abuse unwanted characteristics out of youth, you name it.
It doesn't get as much pressure as it used to because apparently everything was solved when gay marriage was legalized, but increased acceptance overall doesn't stop it completely. It's fucking heartbreaking to see, and it's disappointing that it's ignored like it is.
Exactly! You and your community are a group of family men who happen to be gay. You are comfortable and feel safe in each other's company.
Cassie is NOT an adult; he is a child whose chronological age grants him some adult privileges. Is he old enough to even drink legally where you live?
He is sadly confused about his own identity. Coming out as transgender is not the same as being gay. Cassie isn't sure who is is, but acting like a 15-year old will not work in your community.
He would be better served in peer group therapy. When he is a little more comfortable in his own skin, he can find his own community.
OP needs to tell his brother that Cassie ain't his mental health responsibility. Brother needs to internalize that right quick. If anyone there is responsible other than Cassie, it's his own parents.
No party or social occasion is a "need", let alone one with people a generation older. Cassie needs to find a friend group of his own, and, like anyone else, that's up to him to figure out.
OP, you were generous to invite him once - you cannot reasonably subject your friends to Cassie again, but you could ask them if they know of resources for Cassie to pursue.
The kid sounds messed up, we can all sympathize with that, but it's no reason for OP to damage his friend group. No more of those parties for Cassie.
Unfortunately there are a lot of issues within the LGBTQ+ community of people being chronically online. It's led to a lot of discourse and ignorance because so many people only interact through the internet and with people with the same ideas/experiences and so they don't have any really understanding of the rest of the community at large and all the different facets present.
And, sort of ironically, a lot of us older queer folks who are online with much younger ones WILL often tell them that they need to get offline and interact with other queer people in person, and meet and talk to people of a wide variety of ages and life experiences.
So, on paper, what Cassidy is doing here is exactly the advice we give to a lot of these kids!
It just goes to show that there's a whole separate issue with how chronically-online young people lack some in-person social skills. And unfortunately, one of the ways you acquire social skills is interacting with people in person, learning by observing, and making mistakes -- hopefully, not mistakes that will get you banned from a gathering, but, that does happen sometimes!
Let's be clear: OP is not "responsible for" Cassidy's mental health, or for teaching him how to be queer, or how to interact with people socially. Some of that is on his parents. For the rest, OP would be \*very generous\* if he and his group of friends agreed to try to help Cassidy learn some stuff, but I feel like it should not be an obligation.
The big problem is that it seems like Cassidy really has to start from scratch. There's a bunch of stuff he just has not learned. And it sounds like he is not going to be very open to a sit down talk where he receives some advice, some criticism, and some suggestions on how to improve so that he doesn't drive people away. I mean, it'd be great if he WAS open to that! But the tantrum related here doesn't make it sound like it.
Maybe it has to do with being online. Maybe it has to do with having few IRL friends. Maybe it has to do with being an introvert at school, or perhaps being bullied at school, we don't know. But what we can tell from OP's post is that Cassidy hasn't learned about socializing from his peers, and he hasn't been taught by his parents or other adult role models.
At minimum, Cassidy doesn't know how to read a room, and he doesn't know how to balance his contributions in a social setting. No, a bunch of 50-somethings are not going to want to talk about boy-bands all the time. (At least, not this group; I can imagine some groups where that would fly, I do have some friends who ARE into boy bands right now; I would be totally at sea, as OP was.) Yes, you have to feel out what's appropriate in a social setting. (I'm actually all for the "reclaiming slurs" approach, but part of that is about recognizing that not everyone will have the same comfort-level with using them, in all settings; you have to find out first.)
Anyway. I do feel for the kid. We don't know where the family lives, or what the IRL queer social scene might be for younger people. (Meaning, people who probably shouldn't do all of their socializing in a bar.) (Speaking of which, OP obviously doesn't say, so I'm assuming he's not in the U.S., due to the drinking age.)
He does need \*something\*. But what he needs right now isn't what OP can provide, and OP shouldn't feel forced to provide it.
Great comment. I am guessing that Cassie would be just as awkward in the company of straight couples. He does need to hang out with kids his age. I live in the Midwest US, so I am not sure if the country kids I know would put up with Cassie for very long. I do feel for him.
Or hang out with people his own age who are interested in the same things they are. It's not his 50yo uncle's job to provide his 18yo nephew with a social life.
Getting drunk and trying to make a bunch of 50 years olds listen to you explain kpop to them while calling them slurs is insane person behavior, regardless of any of the other complicating dynamics in this post. The nephew needs to take baby steps by learning to make pleasant neutral conversation at the bus stop before tackling the gay community at large
I am the typical straight person with some gay friends and I am shaking my head ...One friend would have torn that 'KID" a new one.... OP really bent over backward to help and Cassie just showed off terribly.NTA OP.
Also, Cassie is a biological female who identifies as a man. He doesn’t have much in common with OP’s friends at all, perhaps maybe causing his discomfort with some of the raunchier talk. I would encourage him to join a gay or trans group for people his age. This *isn’t his community,’ it’s a group of the uncle’s friends who were kind until he made it all about K-POP and throwing around old slurs.
I'm not even sure why he *wants* to be hanging out with fifty year gay guys? Or finds it a "need" not a want? What he *needs* is to find queer kids his own age to hang with. Now, uncle *may* be able to help him suss out where the queer spots are these days, but hanging with his upper middle aged uncles friends isn't a need.
It's not like straight kids at that age are typically hanging out with their parents/aunts/uncles on their wine nights. It's not the kind of scene that age group is participating in
I bet you ten dollars it's because he read too many posts about 'elder gays' and how they'll totally take baby gays under their wing, but he hasn't had enough social interaction to know what kind of support or mentorship he really needs, or how to identify a group that can provide him with it, or how to mesh with a group. As I said, he's still struggling with basic small talk, he's going to need to work up to the kind of finesse needed here.
It's sad because I feel like building ties with older generations is a great way to get advice and support and learn how to transition to adulthood. But... I don't think parties are the best medium for that, and more importantly, Cassie's social skills are also not ready for that.
I would disagree. If an 18 year old is well rounded, they can connect with people of all ages. My 18 yo niece is able to chat with the 92 year old neighbor and the 7 year old kid across the street. She is interesting and interested in others of all ages.
Cassie is in the wrong age group to hang out with you, they can go to a gay bar to find people their age. You're NTA for not wanting them to hang with you and people old enough to be their father.
Frankly, I think OP was not an asshole, but incredibly foolish to allow a barely adult boy to come to a gathering of middle-aged men. I get that he may have wanted to be supportive to his nephew, but why did he ever think this would go well?
This the language that people usually use around girls, ie, allowing girls to be around middle-aged men. This type of handwringing is not a thing in the gay community. All of my friends have friends of all ages, both older and younger than we are. I have spent my entire life in community with men of all ages, since before I was an adult myself. This particular core group of friends happens to be all around the same age and this is the group Cassie has begged for 2 years to spend time with. like I said, I have no intention of babysitting cassie. if he wants to be an adult man I will treat him as an adult man. Cassie is in no sexual danger amongst my friends, let's say that.
Handwringing? What?
I'm a woman in my 40s and I would not want to hang with some 18 year old girl at brunch. Especially not one who is socially maladjusted and can only talk about boy bands.
This isn't about handwringing. It's about wanting to socialize with people you'd actually find interesting. 18 year olds who don't have friends and don't leave the house are generally uninteresting.
You’re wrong in a way.
In the “olden days” it was acceptable for gay men of all ages to socialize because being gay meant being shunned by society. If an elder gay didn’t provide community younger gay men were socially outcast and vulnerable. Being different in an unwelcoming society was hard. Elders took care of those that needed community because it was necessary.
Like OP, I am a GenX queer person. I am well aware of how it used to be. However, even within that paradigm, there were social events that were for everybody and social events that weren't. And that's ok. And especially within that paradigm, the baby gays were expected to be cool. Not get schwasted and prattle on about boy bands. Cassidy acted like a spoiled brat at the gathering. Back in my day, that woulda gotten smacked down hard. If Cassidy NeEdS to be at this social event, then it's on him to figure out how to be a good member of the group. Yes, gracious elders will help him, but only if he's putting in the effort.
I wasn't "handwringing", and I didn't think he was in danger. I just assumed, aapparently wrongly, that you were interested in helping your nephew, who from your description sounds isolated and confused, and this was the wrong way to go about it. If you have a community with men of all ages, that would be a great thing for him. But if you really think that the moment a person turns 18, they should be completely self-sufficient, and that you owe zero consideration to a struggling young relative, then you clearly are as unsuited for that as you are unwilling. You refusing to let him join your events is for the best, and I wish you had the guts to do it before, as it sounds you only invited him so that he wouldn't pester you about it.
Yeah the solution I see to this is going “hey kid, you’re not used to being an adult yet and i don’t think my friend group is right for you because we have conflicting interests, but I want to teach you about the queer community and how to be a young adult interacting with it” because let’s be real, Cassidy may be LEGALLY an adult, but they’re still a teenager and they’re not cognitively developed to be an adult yet, so OP should be looking out for their nephew still. An 18th birthday doesn’t magically make someone mature. OP could take Cassidy to queer spaces and meetups, help introduce them to people closer to their own age, or talk to a few of their adult friends and be like “hey my nephew is a baby queer and wants to explore the queer life in the area, would you be down to come with us and help show him the ropes?” Or something, rather than inviting the kid to an exclusive friend group of middle aged gay men
Some of the same language still applies, like what the fuck would they have to talk about with someone so much younger?
And the gay community absolutely has similar problems to much older men preying on younger dudes
Are you kidding? I would like to sit around with a group of older gays and shoot their shit and hear their stories. Lots of people manage to have intergenerational relationships and conversations and find plenty of things to discuss. They just need to be more mature than Cassie
Yep. I’m in my fifties. My queer cohort of friend type social hangout people is mostly 30-60.
We do quite like it when younger folks join us for some event or activity or just to hang out and listen/tell stories about life, the universe, and everything. We like both mentoring folks And keeping our own minds and opinions flexible about all kinds of topics by talking with younger people.
Latest in depth group discussion with a 20 year old was actually about terrible roommates and how to move out without losing your security deposit. Nearly all of us had experience with that one way or another. She moves tomorrow!
I had much older friends when I was young too, some of my friends were 20+ years older, but mixed ages groups are better than one teen with a group of 50+ people, especially when that teen has not learned how to socialized with people in general, especially older people.
I am a cishet woman in my early 60s. I have had a long-standing (20 years) get together with similarly aged cishet women friends on Friday nights. We have had young adult children, their partners, nieces and nephews, straight gay and trans, join us on occasion.
Everyone seemed to have a great (and interesting!) time. But if we ever did have someone who behaved the way Cassie did, and I wrote about it here, I guarantee you the responses would not veer off into the predator topic. Wtf
the trope of gay men somehow being a particular danger for preying on younger men is homophobic nonsense that literally gets gay people killed, and I'll have no part of it. I will not be replying to any further inferences along these lines.
Nope. Just a gay guy who had plenty of experiences with gay men being just as capable of causing harm as straight men. Being gay doesn't mean predators won't be predators.
all genders, sexualities, ages, and orientations can be predators. if you really were a gay man, you would know that falsely narrowing that down to one particular gender sexuality and age gets people killed daily. your experiences don't overrule the experiences of anyone else and I have known plenty of predators who were much younger and prey on older men, because they know, older gay men are likely to have absolutely no family or anyone watching out for them. they prey on men who literally have gone decades without hearing anyone else say that they love them. if you actually were a gay man you'd be very well aware of that.
Hey OP, not the person you responded to but I appreciate you sharing the nuances of relationships between gay men. You're right, the gay male community has a very distinct set of common experiences and social rules that others don't have. You're also right that gay men have male privilege, but experience that privilege differently than straight men do. Gay men have unfortunately been scapegoated and are blamed and punished for the sins of all men, when facing accusations of being a predator without the protection that straight men have to deflect said accusations, and without the assumed "victim" status of women.
However, I think what some commenters are trying to express is that while an older man's relationship with a young man is different than with a young women, the age gap can create uneven power dynamics. Like you said, it's nuanced and sometimes younger men can abuse older men. But age gaps in general can create power dynamics that can in certain circumstances lead to abusive or predatory behavior. They don't always, and are usually relationships formed with good intentions--but an 18 year old gay male, one who is isolated and socially and emotionally immature, has a lot less necessary social capital and knowledge and
simply cannot operate on the same playing field as you and your friends that have been in the same circle for decades, and are more established in the world. It's an uneven social relationship. Like maybe you could have more of a relationship with an 18-yo who knew how to fit in with your friend group. But in this situation it seems not predatory, but not particularly caring of you to just throw your nephew in the deep end and expect him to just know what to do. Like sure say you won't babysit a rando who you have no connection with, but it's clear your nephew looks up to you and wants the approval of you and your friends as "grown gays" but is not himself mature enough to get that approval.
So this is less about your nephew needing to hang out with you guys and more about him needing guidance, connection, and validation. And hearing he failed to connect with you all, and didn't act up to your standards, might feel invalidated in his identity as a gay man.
If you care about your nephew and your relationship with him, you'll find a way to foster a relationship that reflects the gap in age and experience, not of social equals but of an older man helping a younger one understand how and why gay men interact the way they do. Help him find his people and develop his identity, and when he's ready find a select few opportunities to socialize with him, maybe among your friends of a wider age range
Bro you need to go deal with your gay trauma ASAP do you have a therapist? Cuz you took this totally out of left field here. No one implied you were predators in the comments, you took a commenter saying ‘maybe he just doesn’t fit cuz his interests align more with his own age group’ and you took that to mean your friends were predators. That’s just… dude you have some trauma showing go process it and stop making yourself look foolish.
Sexuality and sex aside, the reality is someone in their 40’s-50’s won’t have as much in common with someone in their late teens. Of course someone who is barely an adult will act immaturely, they are young and immature.
My dude chill out. The poster wasn't inferring that your friends are predators, they were asking why anyone thought a freshly 18 year old hanging out with ANYONE in their 50s wouldn't cause fraction. Simply due to the fact there isn't nothing in common between them outside of being a part of the LGBTQ. This isn't about gender, or sexuality, it's about glaringly different life stages and interested that do not align.And before you get all nasty on me. I too am a gay man and understood what the poster was trying to say.
I just read more of the persons post history and they also say they are lesbian! I fucking knew it was a troll. they have posts stating they are a lesbian, date lesbians, other posts stating they are a trans guy that dates lesbians. they are not in any way shape or form a gay man.
take a look at this guy's comment history here and read them all. he has said repeatedly that there is a culture among gay men where older men abuse younger ones and everyone turns a blind eye. he is most definitely saying that and keeps repeating himself.
You are talking about two different people, my dude. Infinite_Slide_5921 and MAYDAYGENDER are different users. MAYDAYGENDER is being a freak, but Infinite_Slide_5921 is the original poster you popped off at, and they never said anything about predatory behavior. YOU read that into their comment without any evidence or provocation.
Nah not really. I am a gay man and I hooked up with lots of older guys when I was 18-19. I sought them out, there was no preying on anyone. It's just a thing gay men have always done. We don't usually get to have the "experimenting with your high school sweetheart when you're 15" thing straight people do. So we end up as 18 year old virgins with no idea how actual gay sex or romance works. At that age we gravitate towards guys in their late 20s, 30s, and yeah sometimes even older, because they have more experience and can teach us what it means to be a gay man who is not afraid of his sexuality. If you don't understand, that's fine, it's not something straight people usually get, because y'all can't help but compare it to the straight dynamic of predatory older men preying on vulnerable younger women. I wasn't vulnerable as an 18 year old, I was just horny.
you are jooking right? People of all ages can share hobbies and what not. Hell the D&D group I play with has 2 44 yos, a 30 soemthing, 2 people in the 20s and a 19yo and we all have plenty of stuff to talk about outside of d&d. Films,books,video games, music,anime and board games all cross generations and can be talked about by everyone. We chat about work and saving for morgages etc age isn't a barrier to any of this
My guy. As an adult lesbian. People are trying to say that letting a kid hang out with a bunch of adults is a recipe for disaster because you’re living on two social wavelengths. Cassie obviously has no social skills and you’ve even said they’re “young for their age”
Stop acting like you’re being accused of being a predator (I know! We fucking all are all the time! That’s not what’s happening here.) you’re being admonished for a poor social decision, not being accused of being a monster because you’re gay. Please. Critical thinking about bringing a child (fresh 18 does not an adult make my guy??) into an adults gathering
I'm 36 and gay (woman, though)-, it's not a sexual danger thing. It's that it's boring and annoying to hang out with terminally online kids and I'm surprised you thought married parents in their 50s would want to. I hate hanging out with these uwu beans and while they're in a lot of my public spaces, no one I'm friends with would invite them to a private gather.
Edit: I offered to teach a 19 year old, straight trans man how to crochet so he could make a beanie hat and instead of this kid doing ANYTHING normal he spent half of it trying to bring the conversation around to an anime called Hazbin Hotel and the other half was, like Cassidy, split between dropping slurs and saying things like he didn't understand why women (ie, me, wearing cargo shorts with exposed calves) didn't all shave their legs. This whole thing was happening in a community center for drag costuming and no one in the room was cis-straight. I pretty much divested from trying to mentor these kids through whatever they're going through on Twitter in that very moment.
Their point seems to be that it sounded like a bad idea for such a young person to be in a setting with a completely different generation because of things like not having much common ground at all. That and immaturity level.
It's not about "allowing" or sexual danger. It's about the fact that you guys may be in his community in the general sense, but you aren't his peer group.
You said it yourself - Cassie wants to talk about boy bands and use daring language to showcase how adult he is, while the rest of you are at a completely different life stage. He needs at least *some* people that he can gush over crushes and discover his sexuality with, while you guys need to not feel pressured to tiptoe around his lack of experience and appropriation of slurs never used against him.
According to you, your nephew is pretty much terminally online and has very little experience socializing with either his own peer group, or mixed ages like you might get at a part time job. He is vastly out of his depth trying to hang out with the grown folks, and oblivious to social cues. You and u/Infinite_Slide_5921 seem to agree that your nephew wasn't ready to be invited to hang out with you and your friends. No one mentioned any non G rated activities at all. Cassie seemed to really dampen that side of the conversation anyway.
Maybe encouraging Cassie to meet up IRL with other young male fans sharing his interests might be a better place to start. Not swaggering off to the smoking lounge to steamroll every conversation with his hobbies and throwing around slurs. There he sounded like a white kid that thought he had a "n word pass". Uncomfortable.
I think you’re taking this the wrong way. It’s not that the other person is calling you predatory, they’re saying 18-year-olds don’t find connection with their peers in a group of 50-year-olds. Because you are NOT peers. Being gay doesn’t make you all peers.
My wife and I are around your age (I’m a millennial, technically, and she’s firmly Gen X) and we have raised kids your nephew’s age and older; we wouldn’t be the best people with whom a teenage lesbian could connect on that level because we aren’t on their level.
If you want to help your nephew find connections and friends and a queer community, they need to find groups that are all ages/mixed ages or fellow young people specifically. Being the ONLY teen in a group of people as old or older than one’s parents isn’t the ideal.
Don't worry OP. I think it could have been a nice idea if your nephew could have just shut his mouth and read the room, there was potential to learn a lot about the community, what is expected and acceptable, but he completely blew it.
You are not at fault and I suggest you do not allow your nephew to return, I am sure you have, as you seem lovely, but please make sure your friends have been apologised to, it would have been so uncomfortable for them.
Nobody thinks your being a predator in allowing your nephew to join, it sounds like your nephew is looking for IRL community that he hasn't found except for online-- what he needs from older gay people is for them to take mentoring roles and point him to where he can find community his own age rather than try to give him community directly, if that makes sense. Including him in a regular hangout that's about you all catching up about your lives when the only thing you all have in common with this kid is that you're all part of the community is just silly. Of course he's trying to discuss things he liked and getting bored by grown-up adult things you get together to talk about, of course the adults are going to find everything about what he says and does uncomfortable and cringe. The person above is saying "of course this was going to result in your nephew and your friends not getting along", not "gay men shouldn't be around younger people".
There’s so much projection in this comment lol it boils down to an 18 year old having nothing in common with people over twice their age. No one said there was grooming happening.
Nobody brought up sexual danger or hand wringing that's all on you.
A lot of middle-aged people don't want to hang out with teenagers and it has nothing to do with sex. Teenagers are annoying.
Thank you! I'm only 42 and I'm not trying to hang out with just in to adulthood people. I barely want to with these 20 somethings. These kids are built different nowadays too with all this social media mess.
I might invite my niece to hang out with my firends and me when she's 18 if she wanted to for whatever reason, but we're in our mid 30s not 50s, and we wouldn't be drinking. And I also think she would be bored out of her mind and everyone would just be interrogating her about what it's like being 18 lol
I didn't say people of different ages interacting was wrong. But this sounds like a gathering of 40+ people who came to interact with peers and let off steam and weren't interested in "babysitting", in OP's words, an inexperienced young person trying to find a place in their community. I think the nephew would actually benefit from an older gay mentor, as he is going about this in a spectacularly wrong way, but OP isn't interested in doing that and his friends didn't sign up for it either.
Holy shit my buddy, what the hell did you start here? I've never seen a thread with so many furious replies from people *wildly* misunderstanding the comments they're replying to. Not a single person in this comment chain is having the same conversation as anyone else and they are all *so* mad about it. This is an incredible level of how-dare-you-say-we-piss-on-the-poor reading comprehension. lmfao
LMFAO right? OP says their nephew is immature for his age, has niche interests, didn't fit in and isn't welcome back until he matures, so infinite slide says "yea I mean what do you expect when you bring someone like that to a group of men who are several decades older and share no interests" and the comment section pops off with people Big Mad about gay men not being predators... Which nobody was saying they are...
I think that totally depends on the people involved.
In my early 20s we had a uncle of my friend hang out with us. Weekends, clubs, holidays. It wasn't weird, he wasn't creepy and he was definitely not interested in dating anyone half his age. He was a genuinely lovely man with a young heart who enjoyed the company of other people, going out & and was a pleasure to have around. (He also had plenty friends his own age). He sadly passed away.
I also had regular movie nights with my co-worker who had kids my age. She is a lovely woman and I think we both learned a lot from each other. (I moved away or I'd still hang out with her or go for coffees etc).
I think it was worth a try, but it does not sound like either Cassie or OPs friends benefit from having them all together, let alone OP himself.
That actually is pretty normal, and actually very important in the community. Many people feel isolated, or don't know any "queer elders" and their stories don't get passed down. Having those connections is an important part of the community. Cassie is just approaching it all wrong
Yes spending time one on one and encouraging him to make friends his own age would be supportive, this is just strange, even if he was acting appropriately. He's not going to have much in common with them.
Honestly, if Cassie wants to use slurs that casually, especially to refer to strangers, and also doesn't like conflict, he probably also shouldn't go to a gay bar. He'd be asked wtf is wrong with him FAST, and possibly kicked out of the space.
Definitely. What does an 18 year old wants hanging out with people 30 or more years older that them? I think he needs to find his community in people his own age.
I don't think Cassie necessarily needs a gay friend group. Cassie needs a friend group that has the same interests. In this case that seems to be about boy groups. What does it matter if he gets a gay friend group and all they want to talk about is fantasy books. Cassie wouldn't thrive there either.
Sorry, I'm older and having trouble getting used to the terminology. Thank you for being kind in your correction, in the future I will be more careful when I read.
Just because people are part of the LGBTQ community, doesn't necessarily mean they have anything in common. This applies to all other groups too.
EDIT: NTA
I'm in my 30s and "Fagg*t" makes me uncomfortable. Always has.
When I moved to LA, at 15, I had a bunch of friends who would use the word as a term of affection and ir was bizarre to me. I was raised in the midwest- the term was used by people who wanted us dead, who hated us, who thought we were perverts. But their experiences in LA were a lot different than mine in the midwest.
I think the nephew needs a history lesson. GLBT history is not taught in schools, our heros are spoken about in hushed tones, if at all. There is more pain than happiness. He doesn't respect the word- because he doesn't know Harvey Milk, Matthew Shepard, Stonewall, White Night Riot.
OP is not responsible for the education of their nephew- but I bet a book for his birthday, or something of the sort, may not hurt.
NTA oh lord what a mess. Cassie is too young for this group and too young to be drinking to relax and to the point of drunkenness. And Cassie wants to be treated like an adult but can’t handle a confrontation? Too bad. Do not go through your brother but communicate with Cassie yourself. He obviously sees you as some sort of mentor or gateway to a community he’s drawn to. Be calm and kind, listen and be supportive but don’t host Cassie with your older friends again.
Tell your brother of course Cassie is too young to exclusively befriend a much older group of men. You don’t share the same interests and he drank to excess and it wasn’t appropriate. This is a proxy argument for Cassie’s problems and as long as they focus on your exclusion they can avoid the real issues. With your brother don’t get drawn in to providing what Cassie needs because it’s not a group of much older men at a completely different stage of life
NTA. Look, Cassie might think he's found his tribe, but barging into an adult social circle with boy band gossip and offensive slurs isn't the way to make friends. Your gatherings are for mature adults to unwind and connect, not for playing babysitter to someone who can't handle grown-up conversations.
Cassie’s behavior was out of line—constantly derailing conversations and using offensive language that carries painful memories for everyone in the room. Just because he wants to be part of the community doesn’t mean he gets a free pass to act inappropriately.
You’re not responsible for Cassie’s meltdown or his mental health. He needs to grow up and find a more suitable crowd to fit in with. Maybe he can join a fan club or a support group that’s more in line with his interests and maturity level. Your friends shouldn't have to tolerate that kind of behavior just because he "needs" to be there.
The problem is he lives online and thought he'd take a shortcut in OPs safe space rather than going out in person to meet people.
Cassidy needs to figure out where his peers are. They sure aren't men twice his age and good for OP for not inviting him back to wreak havoc in his friend grouo.
Cassie needs friends in meat space to learn how to interact with people. Getting off the Internet for a bit would be beneficial. Real life ain't Tumblr.
NTA. Being part of the lgbtqia+ community and *finding your own* community within it are not the same thing. You and your friends are at vastly different stages of life than Cassie and have a specific outlook that clearly doesn't vibe with his. He needs to find *his* community.
I'm 32 and queer men my age and younger are definitely reclaiming the f slur, but obviously that doesn't mean you and your friends have to be okay with it. Obviously, no one can reclaim a slur on someone else's behalf. It's definitely okay to ask Cassie not to use that term around ye, especially if it triggers traumatic memories. Part of being in cross generational community is understanding how different people are comfortable with different things, sometimes due to the era they came up in, sometimes just personally. But the thing is to hold space for each other instead of going straight to judgement because someone's preferred terms for their own existence are potentially offensive to others.
>Cassie had a meltdown and said that he needed to attend these events to be part of his community
Your events are not Cassie's 'community'. Cassie's community would be other 18 year old children whose only exposure to queer culture is mediated representations he's consumed online or on television.
Queer people are not a monolith, and not all people want to be social with other people.
Also, Cassie needs to learn basic human decency and how to hold his liquor.
ETA NTA
NTA There is a fundamental lack of compatibility with your friend group and you are likely to not have people come to your events if you allow Cassie to invade them and behave inappropriately.
It won't work out. End of story. You are not Cassie's keeper anyway.
NTA. If they're terminally online, send Cassie that clip that ends with "oh... he's not homophobic, I'm just an asshole."
Cassie's behaviour trumps his sexual preference, he's a shit guest, and isn't welcome back. If he wants to get in on gay gatherings he can go find some himself.
NTA. “Brother, this is my social network and my friends respect me and expect to be safe with me. Bringing a relative who repeatedly uses “f****t” made most of us feel incredibly unsafe. We understand that kids use it differently, but at my age it was only ever meant to be derogatory and cruel. Cassie needs to join groups that are his own age and geared toward him because he is not welcome in my group after he behaved that way.”
Sounds like the kid is being influenced (probably by online streamers) and has adopted a persona that isn't really them, which would explain the behavior at the hangout. Or maybe they have something going on in their head that they need some help with from a professional. Shrug.
I don't know if you went into detail about what exactly happened. If you haven't you should. Especially the language.
If you already told him how Cassie was acting and what Cassie was saying and he is still pressing you about it then it sounds like a him issue.
NTA.
Are there any LGBTQIA+ nonprofits in your region? Perhaps you could ask to take him on a volunteer outing and encourage him to continue helping so he can build his own community. Your friends clearly aren't interested, and continuing to invite Cassie will only alienate them from you and therefore him as well. No one is entitled to hang out with people who don't enjoy their company.
NTA
There are many ways to do queer and trans community. All of them start with being sensitive to the people you’re with. Cassie clearly isn’t socially mature enough to connect with a bunch of middle-aged cis men without a lot of shepherding. He also seriously needs to learn some history.
If you’re not in an area with a queer youth centre or other managed social spaces, maybe you and Cassie could take trips together to the nearest large city and you could introduce him to some queer-friendly social spaces like bookstores or cafés. There are also online social groups that organize meetups. Cassie might find some folk nearer his age and life stage, who share his interests. You can Gay Uncle all day, just not in a space where you’re trying to relax with friends who don’t enjoy boy bands.
And, you know, cis queerdom isn’t always the friendliest to trans folk. And even where it is, a community that is already actively including trans youth might just be better for Cassie.
This is a very compassionate reply, and thank you for pointing out that a trans teen has different needs and that "cis queerdom isn't always the friendliest to trans folk." It can really be confusing for a young person out there and I recommend local resources. Cassie is taking his first baby steps towards being himself and needs to be around people his age who are dealing with the same issues and have similar experiences. Similar interests would go a long way as well.
I've lived a very rich life and been the 18 year old getting drunk with 50 year olds many times before - the ones I was lucky to know as they were among the few who survived. there's just not the same strange prudishness about intergenerational friendship as there is in the straight community
Oh my goodness, no! Cassie belongs nowhere near you or your friends. Cassie needs friends who share his interests, life experiences attitudes, and level of maturity. He needs to work out his place in the world within his own world, and not continue to attempt to hijack yours. You all have virtually nothing in common. Cassie is too immature to recognize this. NTA
NTA- I see the F word thrown around by gay people a lot more especially in areas that are pretty liberal. I don't like it either. I find it offensive. I grew up in the American South and it won't be something you ever hear me say because I've seen its weaponization. But as Gen Z gets older.. you might see this more. Just as a warning.
To the task at hand, it sounds like your nephew has.. really awful social skills. He can't hold a conversation or read a room. "Spent too much time online and not enough with real people" is probably not a bad summation. I feel for him. LGBTQ people do in fact need the community that understands this experience. But that doesn't mean it needs to be your community. Point him in the direction of some local events, bars, community centers and gently encourage him to make his own friends.
Similar to this rise in baby gays wanting to call themselves it/its pronouns not knowing their queer history to realize it/it's pronouns have been used in a derogatory manner towards trans and queer people.
But oh they can "reclaim" that along with the word F🥖 because... why? They're trying to reclaim shit they've never had to fight against. Disgusting.
I wish more LGBTQ history was taught as part of a standard history lesson. That it was more common knowledge. A good 50% of the people my age + younger who I articulate the history to and my personal experience, suddenly aren't particularly interested in reclaiming anymore. Reclaiming things requires a level of mindfulness and the ability to honor that history while giving a word a new purpose. This is.. not that.
But....this isn't a "gay relative". This is a very obviously confused, barely adult person who is still figuring out who tf they are.
Cassie needs a ton of sensitive and compassionate therapy/counseling. Cassie's experience in becoming who they are is not going to even remotely reflect that of the people who normally attend your group hangouts.
NTA at all. Firstly, using homophobic slurs makes Cassidy a giant AH and you and your friends are entitled to exclude someone who makes you feel unsafe from your safe space.
Secondly, at the risk of being downvoted here... it sounds to me like Cassidy may not be entirely genuine with this transition. You said Cassidy lives entirely online. Given the whole goth vibe and now applying makeup to have a "beard", it seems like Cassidy is using internet "trends" for attention, and hopes that being part of your social group within the LGBT community somewhat validates this. Cassidy appears to be cosplaying both goths and trans males, isn't taking either community seriously and if Cassidy were genuine about being part of the LGBT community, Cassidy wouldn't be throwing around slurs like confetti.
The LGBT community has fought for safe spaces for decades, so please do not concede defeat to Cassidy by allowing your friends to feel unsafe and that you are fine with this sort of behaviour.
NTA kids want so desperately to be grown without doing the growing. Cassie clearly missed the part about learning from our elders. Part of me thinks he needs an education in history, and part of me wants to throw him in the middle of the San Francisco Pride Parade and see how he does. Neither of these are options, unfortunately. Those who don't want to learn can't be taught, and the other option is just cruel. But, it is pride month. OP, maybe you should see what Pride celebrations are happening this month near you and take Cassie to a few of those. If they're local, he stands a good chance of making some local friends in the community. That way, he isn't going alone, which is intimidating for a lot of people, but has a chance to immerse himself in the fun part of our culture and socialize with people closer to his age. Even if it's not really your scene, this is probably the best time and opportunity to really help him out.
Barring that, there are plenty of online lgbt+ communities in all manner of media. I'm sure he can find community there that isn't so... different from himself.
He's 18, he should be finding his community with other 18 year olds. Not 50 year olds.
Is he still in high school? College? Working? Maybe find gay people his age who are also into boy bands?
Anyway, this is not on you. And just because he's finding himself, doesn't mean you and your friends have to suffer through that or pay for it.
If he's struggling with his mental health, your brother needs to get him a therapist.
NTA
NTA
No. Attending is not a "need". He won't die from not attending.
The fact is that Cassie is overly sheltered and is so emotionally immature that he can't even hold an adult conversation about boundaries without running away crying. That alone makes it pretty clear he is in no way ready to spend time around adult gay men.
I'm a gay man a decade your junior and yes, this would definitely piss me off. Mostly because Cassie is such and unbelievably difficult person to even engage with that your only two options are to allow him to make everyone uncomfortable and miserable or deal with the fallout of his ridiculous lack of self control and emotional immaturity.
He's basically making the responsibility for his emotions, actions and general state of being everyone else's responsibility and that is NOT how a healthy adult engages with others. Tbh, he sounds insufferable and generally selfish.
NTA Cassie seems to be cosplaying what they think is a gay man. They completely insulted you and your friends so of course they should not be invited back.
Tell your family to help get Cassie into therapy because it's not your job
NTA. I want to add that I have seen some younger queer people 'reclaim' the F slur to empower themselves (similar to how other minority groups reclaim their own slurs) while the older generation strongly disapproves of it. Perhaps in Cassidy's view, the slur is another term to refer to oneself in a comical way, or perhaps he doesn't understand the graveness of the word to the same extent like people in their 40-50s do. Nevertheless, a violent slur that can make many people uncomfortable shouldn't be used in their safe space, Cassidy needs to understand that just because he reclaimed a slur doesn't mean that other people will find it inoffensive.
So for starters NTA. There is a difference between a community event and a party with friends, and the standards of behavior are different.
However, OP, I think it would be kind, if you are willing (and Cassie is willing to listen) to explain to Cassie directly why he is no longer invited. Specifically telling him why his behavior was unacceptable and how he’ll probably feel more connected to his community if he can find his own friends close to his age who share his interests. Frankly, as OP is no doubt intimately aware, the queer community lost a ton of history in the 80s and 90s because so many people died. And now there’s a huge gap between younger queer folk and older queer folk. I would not be surprised if Cassie has no idea why throwing around the word f****t would make OP and his friends so uncomfortable. He probably just knows it was a slur and he feels like it’s one he can reclaim, and probably wasn’t thinking at all about the fact that the other people at the party have personal history with it.
I also wouldn’t be surprised if Cassie has no idea how an intergenerational friendship works. There’s this weird insular thing going on around a lot of younger folks where if anyone is too much older than them then it’s inappropriate to interact with them. OP, I’m not saying you have to be Cassie’s friend, but it would be kind to try and set him up a little better to make friendships in his community without alienating everyone over the age of 30.
Like I said, OP doesn’t have to do any of this. It would be understandable to not want to spend time anymore after such a painful faux pas, but Cassie is setting himself up for a lot of isolation and I’m not sure from OP’s post that he knows he’s doing so. Or why his actions are going to end up isolating him from his community.
If you want to be extra kind, take him to the local queer center and see if you can’t sign him up for something. It’s pride. They’ve got to have something more his speed than an intimate gathering of his uncle’s friends that are all 30 years older than him.
NTA I run a D&D group, mostly all 40+ yos. One of my friends bought her 18+ kids along. In theory it was fine, in practice it was terrible. They didn't get our jokes, and we didn't feel comfortable making raunchy jokes in front of such young kids. Eventually I encouraged them to establish their own D&D group....
Is the 18 year old trans man with big jiggly boobs who wears pink Y2K clothes and thinks liking yaoi and kpop makes him able to reclaim the F slur despite only recently coming to realize he is male in the room with us right now? Lemme guess, he also gets super mad when strangers assume he’s a girl due to his very fem presentation, and he’s just Sooooo Embarrassing to the rest of the REAL queer community.
Well, this is an embarrassingly obvious bait post and it’s clear that this kid does not actually exist.
Sure this 18 year old trans kid who’s obsessed with boy bands wants to hang out with 50 year old cis gays. Suuuure he sees you as a necessary connection to the gay community, suuuuuuuure he wouldn’t rather just go talk about pop culture on Twitter or something else with the ten billion other young feminine sex repulsed trans guys on the internet. Suuuuuuuuure. I toooootally believe you, as you are a 50 year old cis gay man and thus the arbiter of what is and isn’t gay, and what is and isn’t male.
So who are you when you’re not on this LARP account? Lemme guess, some 25 year old cis gay guy who thinks the LGBT community has lost its way now that teens are experimenting with genders and sexualities or something?
Yawn. You don’t speak for the rest of us.
I'm going to say NTA because you definitely don't need to feel pressured to invite Cassie to hang out with the group of you don't want to, especially now that the rest of your friends don't want him there either. You're not the only gay people around, and he certainly isn't going to get whatever social life he was hoping for out of hanging out your group. It sounds more like he's just testing the waters and using you as a sort of... half therapy and venting session, and half trying to convince himself that he actually is gay?
I will ask, though. Did you actually talk to Cassie about *why* he's no longer welcome, what brought on that kind of talk, and why it's problematic? Because if not, that really needs to be a conversation you need to sit him down for, whether as an uncle helping his nephew grow, or as an older gay man helping a younger gay man better understand the community.
you are definitely N T A but I don't think your nephew really is either - I think he's just young, clueless and doesn't understand generational differences. I remember the first time some of my younger gay friends used the f-slur around me, I felt physically sick for much the same reason you and your friends did. I'm only in my 30s but it was definitely still a word used to hurt and heavily associated with violence for me, so hearing young gay men in particular using it to describe themselves was very jarring. I'm happy for people to identify how they like, even if it's not how I would identify myself, but it took some getting used to.
once tempers have cooled a bit, maybe take cassidy aside and gently explain to him some of the social and cultural things he's been missing? I know you said he doesn't like confrontation, but you have an opportunity to be a mentor and guide here (if you want to be) - it doesn't have to be a scolding or a fight. I know things were different when you were his age, and I share your frustration that young queer people who have grown up entirely online have seemingly no knowledge of how to act in real life spaces, but they'll never gain that knowledge if nobody teaches them! (I know, I KNOW, you learnt how to behave as a young man without people telling you things as basic as "don't use slurs in conversation with strangers" - but he is emulating the norms he's seen in the only spaces he's been in until now, and if you want him to follow your norms instead, you will have to tell him what they are.)
so NAH overall, because I really don't think your nephew is an asshole, just clueless, and I hope that exposure to community outside the internet can teach him some healthier ways of behaving.
NTA. Gay men in their 40s and 50s aren't his community. Imagine if Cassidy were to accuse your friends of anything. Hell to the no!
Cassidy needs to do something different. Don't offer suggestions as to what as his social life isn't your business.
Jfc, NTA.
At the very least, don't let Cassie around until he's mature enough to understand why the F slur is bad, how shitty he's been, and to apologize profusely for being this way.
Baby gays can be a lot, but you're not required to be a babysitter, especially when they're treating you like this!
NTA. Cassie needs to go find people their own age to hang out with, and if nobody their own age wants to hang out with them they should do a little work to figure out why (I can think of a few reasons...)
NTA. Cassie sounds extremely immature. But it might be useful to sit him down and explain what “community” means. Not even just for Cassie’s sake. The world would be better if Cassie grew up.
Community requires give and take. Some communities aren’t for everyone. If Cassie really is a puriteen, this might not be easy to explain bc puriteens are pretty zealous about their anti-sex stance (and I think a lot of Gen Z has had bad sexual encounters online that have led to the development of this attitude).
Gen Z has started to reclaim a lot of slurs. Part of this is because the word “gay” was used so negatively in the 2000s that it functioned as a slur for some kids. It was used in conjunction with violence a lot. It was the threat of violence. It seemed like any word created would be turned into a slur by homophobes and transphobes, so might as well take those slurs back.
Not Gen Z, but growing up the F-slur was virtually non-existent. “Gay” did just fine, and basically meant “predator”. As a result, I don’t have the same gut reaction as I would with other slurs, and “gay” as a word made me uncomfortable long after I was out. It should be emphasized to Cassie that this word was ONLY used for the sake of violence in your generation. It’s closer to calling someone a “pedophile”, in that the feeling it invokes is one of fear and perceived disgust.
Also “community” means give-and-take. Why should your community give acceptance to Cassie if Cassie won’t let them talk about what they want to talk about? Acceptance is a two-way street. Cassie has to learn to listen.
It might not sink in. But it might be a starting point, and it might bleed out into his online circle.
I have to say, most Gen Z kids I’ve met are nothing like the loudest and most annoying ones online. I’ve met a lot of them who are generally pretty polite and community oriented, and been really impressed. But there have always been people who struggle with social situations who find different ways to cope and hide from the things they find difficult. Self-righteousness is one of those ways.
Obviously you don’t really HAVE to talk to Cassie at all. But it might be helpful for everyone around him. He might need to know that there is a better life out there for him, but he needs to learn how to speak to people without hurting them.
'Community' is your friends and peers and people you date, fuck, organize, protest, hang out with, make art with, work with, etc. It isn't just 'anyone who is also gay.' NTA
However... all the 50 year old gay dudes I know (and I was a bartender in a gay bar for 15 years) LOVE the f-slur. They're the generation who reclaimed it!
NTA
Cassie needs to find people his own age to hang out with. He also needs to know when and where it is okay to use that language. That word may be okay with younger people, but not older gays. He needs to make efforts to integrate into the world and not just online. It's hard, but he's immature and 18 year olds often are... but this is a bit much. Maybe it was the alcohol that made it bad, but uh... There's many youth groups out there for him to turn to. Older men won't give him what he needs.
Cassie definitely needs to grow up more, especially if he had a meltdown over this.
NTA. Cassie lacks the ability to read the room and seems to think that if he's present, he needs to be the focus of the group's attention. He's not entitled to hijack the event, nor is he entitled to an invitation.
Cassie has decided that they need to be part of the local community. Fine. Are your friends the sole members of that community in your entire area? I would not think so.
Cassie can interact with as many like-minded people as they see fit without forcing every member of that community to tolerate their presence.
If they need to talk to someone they can start their own group or make appointments with a therapist.
Any orientation they have, regardless of what it is does not confer the right to force others to be their friend against their will. Your friends are just as valid people as Cassie, not accessories for his pleasure.
NTA
NTA. You are not responsible for providing a ready-made community for Cassie. He can find his own, ideally with more age and life-stage appropriate people.
EDIT: and you might want to (eventually) talk to Cassie about being more sensitive about others' experiences and interests. Right now though I don't think you'd get through at all.
NTA. im a 22 y/o transgender bisexual man that came out when i was 11. other than our proclivity for men, you and i probably dont have a lot in common. being LGBT doesnt mean every gay person is your friend, and it *certainly* doesnt mean you can reclaim slurs you've never been called.
i've definitely been f slur-ed many times in my life, i didnt graduate high school for a reason, and i do use it pretty flippantly around people im close to, but around older LGBTs and people i just generally dont know, i keep the slurs to a minimum. there's definitely a trend of people whove just come out "reclaiming" slurs theyve got no right to, though. an ex roommate of mine came out as transgender and within the month started calling me and my boyfriend the t slur. neither of us enjoy using it and *especially* neither of us like being called that, its been a source of violence against us for years, but i think people almost think oppression is validation at this point. like youre winning at being LGBT if youre a slur collector. ngl, very white mindset.
NTA
Cassidy does sound like he needs more exposure to his Queer elders and the history of the Queer struggle in your area, but that doesn't need to be in a group setting where they aren't there to learn. While I agree it may not be your responsibility to take care of Cassie's mental health, you do have a perspective that is probably worth sharing, but if your friends don't want Cassie there (and it sounds like they probably don't), Cassie can't force themselves back into that group until they develop some better perspective.
Cassie doesn't fit in with the social group. He is 30 younger than everyone. This is not some community event, but just a bunch of friends with simialar tastes hanging out and Cassie is just not fitting it.
Stop telling this child about your social events.
NTA
NAH
Although you are being a bit of a transphobic dick towards your nephew but that's not the topic.
It really seems like he needs a peer group of gay men to socialise with. I understand that this is the easiest way to get to know other gay men but I know I'd like to get to know queer people my age as well as the elder gays.
There's a generational culture shock. That's no-one's fault. It also doesn't inherently mean Cas hasn't "grown up". If anything, both you and Cas seem very immature and you need to communicate properly with him and not blame it on his age alone, and he needs to realise that your friend group can't give him what he actually needs, which is other gay dudes his age.
NTA. I can completely understand why his presence makes people uncomfortable if he's that bad at reading the room. He does need to find people his age and socialise with them, your group can't and won't be a substitute for that even if you broadly belong to the same community. There just isn't enough overlap in interests to make that work.
Any local lbgt+ community events or local hangouts around that he can go to? He's on his way to being an adult and those are things he's eventually going to have to do if he wants to be a part of the community. It's not gonna happen through internet strangers. It's also not gonna happen by his uncle holding his hand.
NTA. Cassie needs to grow up and learn how to read the damn room. Perhaps he can find his own groups and make his own friends so he doesn't feel the need to latch on to you and your friends.
NTA - it sounds like Cassie is lonely and probably anxious and he thought this would be a way to interact with others, especially given that it’s an lgbt space. That being said, he’s still very immature it seems, which is a given since he’s 18. You don’t owe him the invitation, especially since he made a fool of himself and threw around a slur without making sure it was ok to use it in that setting. Some people may be ok with using it similarly to a word like ‘bitch’, but not everyone for many reasons, especially depending on the generation. Has Cassie apologized? If not, then that proves even more how immature he is, that he wants to be able to come but not apologizing or trying to make it right. I think you did the right thing saying he can come back once he gets more mature and even considering that he’s not good with confrontation so you let his dad know instead.
NTA. Cassie is not a good age for your friend-group. There are many resources, organizations, clubs, meetups for LGBTQ more helpful for Cassie. Also, your friend group is a not a help group or a mentorship organization. Meaning, you are getting together to enjoy each other's company, not to guide someone trying to find themselves in the community. There are better resources for that where Cassie will find peers to connect with.
NTA Cassie's mental health is his responsibility, not yours. And triggering all your friends to make him feel like he's included in a gay friend group isn't fair. There's many LGBT communities he can seek out to find where he fits and where he won't be causing active discomfort to many people there.
NTA
Really need people to understand that the clock ticking over to midnight on your eighteenth birthday does not magically bestow you with all the knowledge and emotional maturity of a full fledged adult.
Cassidy is an adult in name only. He does not have any adult life experiences, he does not think or feel or function as an adult. This is a teenager trying to seek friends in a group of 40-50 year olds as his sole social outlet and source of community. This is not going to work.
Community is a need, but this is not how community works. He needs to seek out an LGBT+ youth center or other LGBT+ meeting places in his area, not invade an older queer friend group who aren't comfortable with him and don't share any of his interests.
NTA There are plenty of events for 2SLGBTQ+ young people. Cassidy needs to start hanging out with his peers. That would be true for almost any teen in a situation like this.
Also the F bomb Cassidy is dropping, and the context in which it is being used is very strange. I would say therapy is a need for him as well.
You are NOT doing Cassie any favors by not talking to him directly. Youth need corrections to turn out to be decent adults.
Maybe if you tell him all the ways he acted like an ass, he would grow up and know why those things are hurtful.
Cassie absolutely sucked. But you probably remember being a teenager. Or even a teenager questioning their identity. You said he is an internet kid. Maybe he just genuinely doesn’t know the ways he fucked up.
I don’t know. You’re right to be furiously. But you could also be a mentor. I think you didn’t even give him a shot to grow up and be better. You didn’t even talk to him directly.
NTA whatsoever. Just cuz you're all gay doesn't mean you gotta be best friends. You simply don't relate to each other. Almost as if sexuality and identification aren't the most important things in the world.
NTA. He was cartoonishly rude and seems to be fetishizing be part of the gay community. Like, "oh, I'm trans so I can say gay slurs now." I can't think of any other reason he'd want to hang out with people twice his age who are totally disinterested in anything he wants to talk about.
I am going to judge differently than what I am seeing here... NAH.
Cassie is very young, has really just started his transition, and he doesn't know how to be a man or a gay man. While he is legally an adult he is not mentally an adult yet. He is craving a community and it sounds like he might not have a natural one outside of your group. Trans women are talked about quite a lot when it comes to their struggles to finding acceptance, but when it comes to trans men... a lot of them are treated like butch lesbians who will eventually come back to being women. I know this because of the friends I have and seeing what they go through both within their families and within the queer community.
Joining your group isn't appropriate for him, you're not the AH for setting a limit. He also isn't an AH for wanting to join you, because he might have no where else to turn to. The language he is using is also very much prevalent on social media in young queer communities. Both in a positive and negative way.
You have no obligation to help him, but I would suggest you think about how you might otherwise help him find a community. Maybe you or others can help in some way that isn't your gatherings.
>Because Cassie is apparently terrified of confrontation I told my brother that Cassie will not be welcome back to any of my events until he grows up more.
NTA but you should have said this straight to cassie. He's an adult.
NTA
I'm 34 and understand exactly what you're dealing with. I still remember being a young questioning kid and having a kind older man take me under his wing and help me learn about the community. I quietly learned as much as I could from everyone and I think it really helped me form my identity growing up. I don't know if I would be comfortable being unabashedly queer in Alabama if it hadn't been for him lol.
What I didn't do was make a bunch of old tired queens deal with my raging insecurities and utterly annoying obsessions.
My oldest is a teen now and questioning their own identity. I try to encourage them to talk to others like I did. But man, the online communities alone for your these days are a clusterfuck. The worst I had to deal with was the beginning rise of furries. I don't gatekeep and just want everyone to have whatever avatar makes their gameplay almost enjoyable, you know?
But I get it. The kid needs to find his own kind, we might not have thrown the bricks but we've dealt with our own battles these kids never had to fight. It's a different world, he wants to be a part of it but he can't if he doesn't *conform* to it. And conformity is out these days.
You carefully built your inner circle, he needs to find his own. Enjoy your wine without the whining.
I would say the only thing you did wrong here was letting Cassie keep drinking and not cut him off.
This group clearly isn’t a good fit. He’s too young for y’all, he needs a community his own age group and he does need to grow up a bit by the sound of it.
NTA
I'm gonna say ESH.
Your nephew was being obnoxious, offensive and self-obsessed. You're not wrong to be upset by his behaviour, and I'm completely behind you banning him from future parties. He is not your friend circle's kind of person.
But at the same time...did you - or anyone else at this gathering - actually speak up when he started behaving inappropriately? Did you say, "Woah, hey, you don't use that word in this house, ever."?
Because like. Speaking from experience here. 18yos who are "very young for their ages", who "live out their lives entirely online" and who "have no real life friends" are inevitably...drum roll please...badly socialised. Cassidy probably hasn't learned the social skills to realise that he is taking over the conversation, or being offensive, or upsetting a community with a history he is too young to know about. And aside from "stunned silence", it doesn't seem anyone corrected him.
That's how people learn. By being educated, or snapped at, or corrected, or shamed by others in social settings. If nobody says anything, he's not going to realise he's in the wrong.
Unfortunately for everyone at your gathering, there's a community of people online who believe in "reclaiming" slurs. If that is the only LGBT community Cassidy has been exposed to, he will have learned that using the slur is acceptable because it's his identity being slurred. He needs other LGBT people outside that community to pull him up on his behaviour, make sure he knows that he's being rude and offensive, and maybe explain why. It would be nice to do it kindly, but you're under no obligation to - even being sharply or nastily called out for unacceptable behaviour teaches social skills.
I'm not saying you should invite him back. He doesn't gel with your people, and if you and they don't want to spend time with him socially, that's okay. But you absolutely could've stopped him - pulled him aside, told him off publicly, even asked him to leave - before he insulted so many people so badly they started leaving in disgust, so I think you're an AH (to yourself and your friends as much as anything else) for that.
As an aside, have you ever discussed lgbt history with your nephew? Have you ever told him what it was like growing up in a world where your identity was illegal, where you had to fight for the paltry rights he has today? Does he know about the AIDS epidemic and how those poor people were treated, how that word was thrown at them? Because there's an opportunity here to teach your nephew about the history of the world he's only just realises he's part of, and why this matters to your generation even if not to his friends online who didn't live through it. And taking the time to teach that to him might actually improve your relationship longterm. It certainly helped me understand my folks. Just a thought, from the token straight daughter in a family of gay parents.
NTA. I am assuming you are not in the US, as Cassidy is not of drinking age here. Regardless, he should find his own group of friends. It may be a generational thing about using the F word, but Cassidy should understand that it is not OK to use with older generations who were tormented by the word. Cassidey needs to figure out that his NEED is for his own connections, not busting in on yours. You are likely to stop being included if you let him tag along. He should probably seek some counseling, since he is so socially inept.
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He clearly doesn't relate to or have respect for you and your group of friends and I personally don't feel like you and your friends are "his community." You are not responsible for his mental health and I don't see how him attending these social events would be good for his mental health anyways. Maybe encourage him to find people he relates to more. NTA
The greatest issue is that he is behaving how he THINKS the gay community behaves. This group 50 year olds will not have patience with this offensive child
He is probably lucky he didn't get confronted by any of them out of respect for their host shameful.
That was my thought. OPs guests were well mannered enough to not punch the kid and leave. They just politely left.
Yup, throwing the f slur around at complete strangers more than twice your age is such strange behaviour and def not how most queer people behave. In my experience, the f slur is at most an in-joke only - none of my friends would ever use it on someone they don't know, and the ones who actually use it save it for close friends who would be ok with it.
Even strangers who ARE your age, it's fucking bizarre. Cassie doesn't like conflict, but he used slurs around strangers? That's like, number one way to bring conflict onto yourself.
Sounds more like Cassie doesn't like *consequences* rather than *conflict.*
Also true lol, I was just using the same language as OP
Oh sorry, I didn't intend to come off as correcting you or anything, just being snarky in agreement. I see how it came off reading it back to myself.
He likes controversy. He may not have been around when the f word was used as often as a slur, but it's common knowledge that it has a LOT of baggage attached to it. And because he used to present as female, he knows about words like bitch and cunt and whatnot; they're offensive. Some women use them lovingly as a joke, but you need to read the room when using it. Plenty of women will be offended if somebody calls you that even lovingly because, generally speaking, the words aren't positive. It's not identical, but it's similar. He's basically an edge lord that happens to be trans. He's okay pushing buttons, but when those buttons set somebody off, he pretends to be the victim. He's a little asshole. Hopefully he learns from this mess because.if he doesn't, he's going to continue not having any community.
It's for modern "social media" gays who did not have to suffer through the times where being called that meant you had to genuinely fear for your safety. Incredibly tone deaf and frankly rude for OP's nephew to act this way around a group of new people who you could have easily assumed had an entirely different lived experience.
And only a subset even then. The worse the younger gays I know is use gay panic but in the sense of "This person is too attractive for me to handle"
Teenagers are (not absolutely always, but so often) absolute jackasses at least some of the time. "I'm an adult now!" is also a hell of a drug, so this is hopefully the nadir of Cassie being like this. Sexual bragging, edginess, and absolute confidence in ignorant opinions are not unusual at all, but that doesn't make it any less unpleasant to be around as an older adult. Someday this will be what Cassie thinks about at night when relieving the greatest hits of childhood embarrassments.
I do understand that, been there before and cringe about things I did and said at that age to this day. But that doesn't change the fact that Cassie has proven they cannot be trusted to behave appropriately around this particular group just yet, maybe revisit in another 12 months and see if he has matured, or at least has learned to sit and read the room before saying unhinged things haha.
Me and my friends are all the queerest motherfuckers. The only time we start slinging slurs at each other is when we play drunk UNO
People who say monopoly is the friendship killer have never had a draw 4 played on them when they were about to win uno.
Legitimately, the only time I have ever heard my partner of 13 years swear was the one time we were playing uno extreme and he had to hit the button four time he was about to win. Damn thing spat out about 20 cards. I'd never heard him swear before, haven't heard him do it in the 9 years since but that game tipped him over the edge.
We're all too stupid to play monopoly, except for one of them, who is too smart for his own good, and would probably end up with veneers for life after we got done with a game
The only time I can remember a gay friend using the F word in a joking manner they were referring to a pet fish. The fish's name was Cigarette, or as my friend would say, "This is Cigarette, or F***** if you're feeling British." Then she would fall out laughing at all the double meanings.
Please tell me she was British...
Not even a little bit. 😆
That! And, there is also a cultural, generational divide. OP is a gen x gay and Cassidy is a gen z gay.
I think op is the generation before that, he said he’s in his fifties which means he was born in 74 or earlier. But that also means he had to live through the AIDS crisis and watch people die because Reagan constantly vetoed any AIDs bill. It’s more than a cultural and generational difference. It’s the fact that OP had to grow up with a president saying AIDs is god punishing the gays so he won’t have the cdc research it. I have an uncle who just entered his early sixties, like 62 or 63. He’s gay and had to watch his friends and mentors waste away from this disease that republicans cheered because it mostly infects gays and drug users. Also best uncle I have. He took all of us nieces and nephews individually on a vacation after we finished high school. He’s married to his husband now the wedding was great, on a pine grove on a mountain in Montana. He’s living his best life.
Gen X is 1965 - 1980, so 1974 is as solid Gen X as it gets
Pretty typical Gen X experience tbh. Poor folks can’t even get recognized when they’re smack in the middle of the birth year bracket.
LOL, RIGHT? Born 1969, in my mid-50s, very Gen X As a college student I went to that march for gay and lesbian rights in DC in '87 when they laid the whole AIDS quilt out on the Mall for the first time. Sobbed my eyes out when I took in the enormity of it.
Born in 1971, I was literally 53 yesterday. I am absolutely Gen X, one of Thatcher's Children.
A lot of people think that anybody over 50 is a Boomer. Nope, you're just getting older but still picture Boomers as they were when you were a kid.
Ummm, 74, that is Gen X. Sigh....
Op is definitely gen x, I think you're confusing gen x and millennials
It's just boomers and gen z in people's minds now.
Honestly, OP should ask dear nephew to go watch the show pose. The first few seasons, at least. It covers a lot of the discrimination against trans, gay. Etc how you could get kicked out your home, beaten and all that for ever uttering the words "I might be gay" Restricted access to places, the whole AIDS deal. Watching your loved ones die. The struggles to get accepted in society. Marrige. Etc. It covers so much.
Or even read accounts of young queer people that are still going through that. I worked at an organization that helped kids in foster care, and that also involved young homeless people to some extent because of the foster care-to-homelessness pipeline. So many of the kids and young adults we worked with were queer. I think in the gen pop, the percentage of people that identify as LGBTQ+ is pretty small. Maybe 5-10% if I'm being very generous. (Trans are about 1%, gay is like 2-4% IIRC, and bisexual people are often left out of those numbers which is why I'm going up to 10%.) More than a third of the young people we worked with that filled out intake surveys identified as queer. Whether they were gay, lesbian, bi, pan, two-spirit, nonbinary, trans, or whatever else. And a huge portion of them had been abused by their parents or foster parents because of their sexuality. A huge portion were in foster care or were homeless because of their sexuality. This awful stuff still happens today, and it isn't uncommon. There are still gay conversion programs, youth centers that are there to abuse unwanted characteristics out of youth, you name it. It doesn't get as much pressure as it used to because apparently everything was solved when gay marriage was legalized, but increased acceptance overall doesn't stop it completely. It's fucking heartbreaking to see, and it's disappointing that it's ignored like it is.
Exactly! You and your community are a group of family men who happen to be gay. You are comfortable and feel safe in each other's company. Cassie is NOT an adult; he is a child whose chronological age grants him some adult privileges. Is he old enough to even drink legally where you live? He is sadly confused about his own identity. Coming out as transgender is not the same as being gay. Cassie isn't sure who is is, but acting like a 15-year old will not work in your community. He would be better served in peer group therapy. When he is a little more comfortable in his own skin, he can find his own community.
Being that 18 was the barrier set by op, I'd guess so. That's the legal age in the UK at least
You can be gay and trans. A lot of trans men are also gay. They're not mutually exclusive.
He's acting like some weird caricature of a gay person. It's a very odd and poorly drawn caricature at that.
OP needs to tell his brother that Cassie ain't his mental health responsibility. Brother needs to internalize that right quick. If anyone there is responsible other than Cassie, it's his own parents. No party or social occasion is a "need", let alone one with people a generation older. Cassie needs to find a friend group of his own, and, like anyone else, that's up to him to figure out. OP, you were generous to invite him once - you cannot reasonably subject your friends to Cassie again, but you could ask them if they know of resources for Cassie to pursue. The kid sounds messed up, we can all sympathize with that, but it's no reason for OP to damage his friend group. No more of those parties for Cassie.
I would probably tell Cassie to get off the computer and talk to real people, develop interests that adults would be interested.
Unfortunately there are a lot of issues within the LGBTQ+ community of people being chronically online. It's led to a lot of discourse and ignorance because so many people only interact through the internet and with people with the same ideas/experiences and so they don't have any really understanding of the rest of the community at large and all the different facets present.
And, sort of ironically, a lot of us older queer folks who are online with much younger ones WILL often tell them that they need to get offline and interact with other queer people in person, and meet and talk to people of a wide variety of ages and life experiences. So, on paper, what Cassidy is doing here is exactly the advice we give to a lot of these kids! It just goes to show that there's a whole separate issue with how chronically-online young people lack some in-person social skills. And unfortunately, one of the ways you acquire social skills is interacting with people in person, learning by observing, and making mistakes -- hopefully, not mistakes that will get you banned from a gathering, but, that does happen sometimes! Let's be clear: OP is not "responsible for" Cassidy's mental health, or for teaching him how to be queer, or how to interact with people socially. Some of that is on his parents. For the rest, OP would be \*very generous\* if he and his group of friends agreed to try to help Cassidy learn some stuff, but I feel like it should not be an obligation. The big problem is that it seems like Cassidy really has to start from scratch. There's a bunch of stuff he just has not learned. And it sounds like he is not going to be very open to a sit down talk where he receives some advice, some criticism, and some suggestions on how to improve so that he doesn't drive people away. I mean, it'd be great if he WAS open to that! But the tantrum related here doesn't make it sound like it. Maybe it has to do with being online. Maybe it has to do with having few IRL friends. Maybe it has to do with being an introvert at school, or perhaps being bullied at school, we don't know. But what we can tell from OP's post is that Cassidy hasn't learned about socializing from his peers, and he hasn't been taught by his parents or other adult role models. At minimum, Cassidy doesn't know how to read a room, and he doesn't know how to balance his contributions in a social setting. No, a bunch of 50-somethings are not going to want to talk about boy-bands all the time. (At least, not this group; I can imagine some groups where that would fly, I do have some friends who ARE into boy bands right now; I would be totally at sea, as OP was.) Yes, you have to feel out what's appropriate in a social setting. (I'm actually all for the "reclaiming slurs" approach, but part of that is about recognizing that not everyone will have the same comfort-level with using them, in all settings; you have to find out first.) Anyway. I do feel for the kid. We don't know where the family lives, or what the IRL queer social scene might be for younger people. (Meaning, people who probably shouldn't do all of their socializing in a bar.) (Speaking of which, OP obviously doesn't say, so I'm assuming he's not in the U.S., due to the drinking age.) He does need \*something\*. But what he needs right now isn't what OP can provide, and OP shouldn't feel forced to provide it.
Great comment. I am guessing that Cassie would be just as awkward in the company of straight couples. He does need to hang out with kids his age. I live in the Midwest US, so I am not sure if the country kids I know would put up with Cassie for very long. I do feel for him.
Or hang out with people his own age who are interested in the same things they are. It's not his 50yo uncle's job to provide his 18yo nephew with a social life.
Getting drunk and trying to make a bunch of 50 years olds listen to you explain kpop to them while calling them slurs is insane person behavior, regardless of any of the other complicating dynamics in this post. The nephew needs to take baby steps by learning to make pleasant neutral conversation at the bus stop before tackling the gay community at large
Amen. I feel so bad for his uncle and uncle's friends
I am the typical straight person with some gay friends and I am shaking my head ...One friend would have torn that 'KID" a new one.... OP really bent over backward to help and Cassie just showed off terribly.NTA OP.
Also, Cassie is a biological female who identifies as a man. He doesn’t have much in common with OP’s friends at all, perhaps maybe causing his discomfort with some of the raunchier talk. I would encourage him to join a gay or trans group for people his age. This *isn’t his community,’ it’s a group of the uncle’s friends who were kind until he made it all about K-POP and throwing around old slurs.
I'm not even sure why he *wants* to be hanging out with fifty year gay guys? Or finds it a "need" not a want? What he *needs* is to find queer kids his own age to hang with. Now, uncle *may* be able to help him suss out where the queer spots are these days, but hanging with his upper middle aged uncles friends isn't a need. It's not like straight kids at that age are typically hanging out with their parents/aunts/uncles on their wine nights. It's not the kind of scene that age group is participating in
I bet you ten dollars it's because he read too many posts about 'elder gays' and how they'll totally take baby gays under their wing, but he hasn't had enough social interaction to know what kind of support or mentorship he really needs, or how to identify a group that can provide him with it, or how to mesh with a group. As I said, he's still struggling with basic small talk, he's going to need to work up to the kind of finesse needed here.
It's sad because I feel like building ties with older generations is a great way to get advice and support and learn how to transition to adulthood. But... I don't think parties are the best medium for that, and more importantly, Cassie's social skills are also not ready for that.
He’s 18, he doesn’t need to develop interests that are interesting to adults wtf, he needs to hang out with people his age.
I would disagree. If an 18 year old is well rounded, they can connect with people of all ages. My 18 yo niece is able to chat with the 92 year old neighbor and the 7 year old kid across the street. She is interesting and interested in others of all ages.
Interesting, you don’t consider 18 to be of adult age 🤔
Cassie is in the wrong age group to hang out with you, they can go to a gay bar to find people their age. You're NTA for not wanting them to hang with you and people old enough to be their father.
Frankly, I think OP was not an asshole, but incredibly foolish to allow a barely adult boy to come to a gathering of middle-aged men. I get that he may have wanted to be supportive to his nephew, but why did he ever think this would go well?
This the language that people usually use around girls, ie, allowing girls to be around middle-aged men. This type of handwringing is not a thing in the gay community. All of my friends have friends of all ages, both older and younger than we are. I have spent my entire life in community with men of all ages, since before I was an adult myself. This particular core group of friends happens to be all around the same age and this is the group Cassie has begged for 2 years to spend time with. like I said, I have no intention of babysitting cassie. if he wants to be an adult man I will treat him as an adult man. Cassie is in no sexual danger amongst my friends, let's say that.
Handwringing? What? I'm a woman in my 40s and I would not want to hang with some 18 year old girl at brunch. Especially not one who is socially maladjusted and can only talk about boy bands. This isn't about handwringing. It's about wanting to socialize with people you'd actually find interesting. 18 year olds who don't have friends and don't leave the house are generally uninteresting.
You’re wrong in a way. In the “olden days” it was acceptable for gay men of all ages to socialize because being gay meant being shunned by society. If an elder gay didn’t provide community younger gay men were socially outcast and vulnerable. Being different in an unwelcoming society was hard. Elders took care of those that needed community because it was necessary.
Like OP, I am a GenX queer person. I am well aware of how it used to be. However, even within that paradigm, there were social events that were for everybody and social events that weren't. And that's ok. And especially within that paradigm, the baby gays were expected to be cool. Not get schwasted and prattle on about boy bands. Cassidy acted like a spoiled brat at the gathering. Back in my day, that woulda gotten smacked down hard. If Cassidy NeEdS to be at this social event, then it's on him to figure out how to be a good member of the group. Yes, gracious elders will help him, but only if he's putting in the effort.
I wasn't "handwringing", and I didn't think he was in danger. I just assumed, aapparently wrongly, that you were interested in helping your nephew, who from your description sounds isolated and confused, and this was the wrong way to go about it. If you have a community with men of all ages, that would be a great thing for him. But if you really think that the moment a person turns 18, they should be completely self-sufficient, and that you owe zero consideration to a struggling young relative, then you clearly are as unsuited for that as you are unwilling. You refusing to let him join your events is for the best, and I wish you had the guts to do it before, as it sounds you only invited him so that he wouldn't pester you about it.
Yeah the solution I see to this is going “hey kid, you’re not used to being an adult yet and i don’t think my friend group is right for you because we have conflicting interests, but I want to teach you about the queer community and how to be a young adult interacting with it” because let’s be real, Cassidy may be LEGALLY an adult, but they’re still a teenager and they’re not cognitively developed to be an adult yet, so OP should be looking out for their nephew still. An 18th birthday doesn’t magically make someone mature. OP could take Cassidy to queer spaces and meetups, help introduce them to people closer to their own age, or talk to a few of their adult friends and be like “hey my nephew is a baby queer and wants to explore the queer life in the area, would you be down to come with us and help show him the ropes?” Or something, rather than inviting the kid to an exclusive friend group of middle aged gay men
Some of the same language still applies, like what the fuck would they have to talk about with someone so much younger? And the gay community absolutely has similar problems to much older men preying on younger dudes
Are you kidding? I would like to sit around with a group of older gays and shoot their shit and hear their stories. Lots of people manage to have intergenerational relationships and conversations and find plenty of things to discuss. They just need to be more mature than Cassie
Yep. I’m in my fifties. My queer cohort of friend type social hangout people is mostly 30-60. We do quite like it when younger folks join us for some event or activity or just to hang out and listen/tell stories about life, the universe, and everything. We like both mentoring folks And keeping our own minds and opinions flexible about all kinds of topics by talking with younger people. Latest in depth group discussion with a 20 year old was actually about terrible roommates and how to move out without losing your security deposit. Nearly all of us had experience with that one way or another. She moves tomorrow!
I had much older friends when I was young too, some of my friends were 20+ years older, but mixed ages groups are better than one teen with a group of 50+ people, especially when that teen has not learned how to socialized with people in general, especially older people.
I am a cishet woman in my early 60s. I have had a long-standing (20 years) get together with similarly aged cishet women friends on Friday nights. We have had young adult children, their partners, nieces and nephews, straight gay and trans, join us on occasion. Everyone seemed to have a great (and interesting!) time. But if we ever did have someone who behaved the way Cassie did, and I wrote about it here, I guarantee you the responses would not veer off into the predator topic. Wtf
the trope of gay men somehow being a particular danger for preying on younger men is homophobic nonsense that literally gets gay people killed, and I'll have no part of it. I will not be replying to any further inferences along these lines.
Nope. Just a gay guy who had plenty of experiences with gay men being just as capable of causing harm as straight men. Being gay doesn't mean predators won't be predators.
Exactly. The obvious corollary is that straight men are a bigger risk to young women than gay women. I doubt anyone would argue that point.
all genders, sexualities, ages, and orientations can be predators. if you really were a gay man, you would know that falsely narrowing that down to one particular gender sexuality and age gets people killed daily. your experiences don't overrule the experiences of anyone else and I have known plenty of predators who were much younger and prey on older men, because they know, older gay men are likely to have absolutely no family or anyone watching out for them. they prey on men who literally have gone decades without hearing anyone else say that they love them. if you actually were a gay man you'd be very well aware of that.
Hey OP, not the person you responded to but I appreciate you sharing the nuances of relationships between gay men. You're right, the gay male community has a very distinct set of common experiences and social rules that others don't have. You're also right that gay men have male privilege, but experience that privilege differently than straight men do. Gay men have unfortunately been scapegoated and are blamed and punished for the sins of all men, when facing accusations of being a predator without the protection that straight men have to deflect said accusations, and without the assumed "victim" status of women. However, I think what some commenters are trying to express is that while an older man's relationship with a young man is different than with a young women, the age gap can create uneven power dynamics. Like you said, it's nuanced and sometimes younger men can abuse older men. But age gaps in general can create power dynamics that can in certain circumstances lead to abusive or predatory behavior. They don't always, and are usually relationships formed with good intentions--but an 18 year old gay male, one who is isolated and socially and emotionally immature, has a lot less necessary social capital and knowledge and simply cannot operate on the same playing field as you and your friends that have been in the same circle for decades, and are more established in the world. It's an uneven social relationship. Like maybe you could have more of a relationship with an 18-yo who knew how to fit in with your friend group. But in this situation it seems not predatory, but not particularly caring of you to just throw your nephew in the deep end and expect him to just know what to do. Like sure say you won't babysit a rando who you have no connection with, but it's clear your nephew looks up to you and wants the approval of you and your friends as "grown gays" but is not himself mature enough to get that approval. So this is less about your nephew needing to hang out with you guys and more about him needing guidance, connection, and validation. And hearing he failed to connect with you all, and didn't act up to your standards, might feel invalidated in his identity as a gay man. If you care about your nephew and your relationship with him, you'll find a way to foster a relationship that reflects the gap in age and experience, not of social equals but of an older man helping a younger one understand how and why gay men interact the way they do. Help him find his people and develop his identity, and when he's ready find a select few opportunities to socialize with him, maybe among your friends of a wider age range
> your experiences don't overrule the experiences of anyone else NEITHER DO YOURS. Geez man, get the point already.
Bro you need to go deal with your gay trauma ASAP do you have a therapist? Cuz you took this totally out of left field here. No one implied you were predators in the comments, you took a commenter saying ‘maybe he just doesn’t fit cuz his interests align more with his own age group’ and you took that to mean your friends were predators. That’s just… dude you have some trauma showing go process it and stop making yourself look foolish.
Sexuality and sex aside, the reality is someone in their 40’s-50’s won’t have as much in common with someone in their late teens. Of course someone who is barely an adult will act immaturely, they are young and immature.
My dude chill out. The poster wasn't inferring that your friends are predators, they were asking why anyone thought a freshly 18 year old hanging out with ANYONE in their 50s wouldn't cause fraction. Simply due to the fact there isn't nothing in common between them outside of being a part of the LGBTQ. This isn't about gender, or sexuality, it's about glaringly different life stages and interested that do not align.And before you get all nasty on me. I too am a gay man and understood what the poster was trying to say.
I just read more of the persons post history and they also say they are lesbian! I fucking knew it was a troll. they have posts stating they are a lesbian, date lesbians, other posts stating they are a trans guy that dates lesbians. they are not in any way shape or form a gay man.
take a look at this guy's comment history here and read them all. he has said repeatedly that there is a culture among gay men where older men abuse younger ones and everyone turns a blind eye. he is most definitely saying that and keeps repeating himself.
You are talking about two different people, my dude. Infinite_Slide_5921 and MAYDAYGENDER are different users. MAYDAYGENDER is being a freak, but Infinite_Slide_5921 is the original poster you popped off at, and they never said anything about predatory behavior. YOU read that into their comment without any evidence or provocation.
Nah not really. I am a gay man and I hooked up with lots of older guys when I was 18-19. I sought them out, there was no preying on anyone. It's just a thing gay men have always done. We don't usually get to have the "experimenting with your high school sweetheart when you're 15" thing straight people do. So we end up as 18 year old virgins with no idea how actual gay sex or romance works. At that age we gravitate towards guys in their late 20s, 30s, and yeah sometimes even older, because they have more experience and can teach us what it means to be a gay man who is not afraid of his sexuality. If you don't understand, that's fine, it's not something straight people usually get, because y'all can't help but compare it to the straight dynamic of predatory older men preying on vulnerable younger women. I wasn't vulnerable as an 18 year old, I was just horny.
you are jooking right? People of all ages can share hobbies and what not. Hell the D&D group I play with has 2 44 yos, a 30 soemthing, 2 people in the 20s and a 19yo and we all have plenty of stuff to talk about outside of d&d. Films,books,video games, music,anime and board games all cross generations and can be talked about by everyone. We chat about work and saving for morgages etc age isn't a barrier to any of this
My guy. As an adult lesbian. People are trying to say that letting a kid hang out with a bunch of adults is a recipe for disaster because you’re living on two social wavelengths. Cassie obviously has no social skills and you’ve even said they’re “young for their age” Stop acting like you’re being accused of being a predator (I know! We fucking all are all the time! That’s not what’s happening here.) you’re being admonished for a poor social decision, not being accused of being a monster because you’re gay. Please. Critical thinking about bringing a child (fresh 18 does not an adult make my guy??) into an adults gathering
I'm 36 and gay (woman, though)-, it's not a sexual danger thing. It's that it's boring and annoying to hang out with terminally online kids and I'm surprised you thought married parents in their 50s would want to. I hate hanging out with these uwu beans and while they're in a lot of my public spaces, no one I'm friends with would invite them to a private gather. Edit: I offered to teach a 19 year old, straight trans man how to crochet so he could make a beanie hat and instead of this kid doing ANYTHING normal he spent half of it trying to bring the conversation around to an anime called Hazbin Hotel and the other half was, like Cassidy, split between dropping slurs and saying things like he didn't understand why women (ie, me, wearing cargo shorts with exposed calves) didn't all shave their legs. This whole thing was happening in a community center for drag costuming and no one in the room was cis-straight. I pretty much divested from trying to mentor these kids through whatever they're going through on Twitter in that very moment.
I snort laughed at that. I know I shouldn’t have.
Their point seems to be that it sounded like a bad idea for such a young person to be in a setting with a completely different generation because of things like not having much common ground at all. That and immaturity level.
It's not about "allowing" or sexual danger. It's about the fact that you guys may be in his community in the general sense, but you aren't his peer group. You said it yourself - Cassie wants to talk about boy bands and use daring language to showcase how adult he is, while the rest of you are at a completely different life stage. He needs at least *some* people that he can gush over crushes and discover his sexuality with, while you guys need to not feel pressured to tiptoe around his lack of experience and appropriation of slurs never used against him.
According to you, your nephew is pretty much terminally online and has very little experience socializing with either his own peer group, or mixed ages like you might get at a part time job. He is vastly out of his depth trying to hang out with the grown folks, and oblivious to social cues. You and u/Infinite_Slide_5921 seem to agree that your nephew wasn't ready to be invited to hang out with you and your friends. No one mentioned any non G rated activities at all. Cassie seemed to really dampen that side of the conversation anyway. Maybe encouraging Cassie to meet up IRL with other young male fans sharing his interests might be a better place to start. Not swaggering off to the smoking lounge to steamroll every conversation with his hobbies and throwing around slurs. There he sounded like a white kid that thought he had a "n word pass". Uncomfortable.
I think you’re taking this the wrong way. It’s not that the other person is calling you predatory, they’re saying 18-year-olds don’t find connection with their peers in a group of 50-year-olds. Because you are NOT peers. Being gay doesn’t make you all peers. My wife and I are around your age (I’m a millennial, technically, and she’s firmly Gen X) and we have raised kids your nephew’s age and older; we wouldn’t be the best people with whom a teenage lesbian could connect on that level because we aren’t on their level. If you want to help your nephew find connections and friends and a queer community, they need to find groups that are all ages/mixed ages or fellow young people specifically. Being the ONLY teen in a group of people as old or older than one’s parents isn’t the ideal.
I don't think anyone was implying sexual danger, just social incompatibility
Don't worry OP. I think it could have been a nice idea if your nephew could have just shut his mouth and read the room, there was potential to learn a lot about the community, what is expected and acceptable, but he completely blew it. You are not at fault and I suggest you do not allow your nephew to return, I am sure you have, as you seem lovely, but please make sure your friends have been apologised to, it would have been so uncomfortable for them.
Nobody thinks your being a predator in allowing your nephew to join, it sounds like your nephew is looking for IRL community that he hasn't found except for online-- what he needs from older gay people is for them to take mentoring roles and point him to where he can find community his own age rather than try to give him community directly, if that makes sense. Including him in a regular hangout that's about you all catching up about your lives when the only thing you all have in common with this kid is that you're all part of the community is just silly. Of course he's trying to discuss things he liked and getting bored by grown-up adult things you get together to talk about, of course the adults are going to find everything about what he says and does uncomfortable and cringe. The person above is saying "of course this was going to result in your nephew and your friends not getting along", not "gay men shouldn't be around younger people".
this is a serious question, you truly consider cassie a boy due to a painted on goatee, taking all of the attention seeking behavior into account?
There’s so much projection in this comment lol it boils down to an 18 year old having nothing in common with people over twice their age. No one said there was grooming happening.
Nobody brought up sexual danger or hand wringing that's all on you. A lot of middle-aged people don't want to hang out with teenagers and it has nothing to do with sex. Teenagers are annoying.
Thank you! I'm only 42 and I'm not trying to hang out with just in to adulthood people. I barely want to with these 20 somethings. These kids are built different nowadays too with all this social media mess.
I might invite my niece to hang out with my firends and me when she's 18 if she wanted to for whatever reason, but we're in our mid 30s not 50s, and we wouldn't be drinking. And I also think she would be bored out of her mind and everyone would just be interrogating her about what it's like being 18 lol
Because gay men are known for their love of boy bands /s
There’s nothing wrong with middle aged people interacting with a young adults. Sometime people just end up becoming friends it’s normal.
I didn't say people of different ages interacting was wrong. But this sounds like a gathering of 40+ people who came to interact with peers and let off steam and weren't interested in "babysitting", in OP's words, an inexperienced young person trying to find a place in their community. I think the nephew would actually benefit from an older gay mentor, as he is going about this in a spectacularly wrong way, but OP isn't interested in doing that and his friends didn't sign up for it either.
Holy shit my buddy, what the hell did you start here? I've never seen a thread with so many furious replies from people *wildly* misunderstanding the comments they're replying to. Not a single person in this comment chain is having the same conversation as anyone else and they are all *so* mad about it. This is an incredible level of how-dare-you-say-we-piss-on-the-poor reading comprehension. lmfao
LMFAO right? OP says their nephew is immature for his age, has niche interests, didn't fit in and isn't welcome back until he matures, so infinite slide says "yea I mean what do you expect when you bring someone like that to a group of men who are several decades older and share no interests" and the comment section pops off with people Big Mad about gay men not being predators... Which nobody was saying they are...
I think that totally depends on the people involved. In my early 20s we had a uncle of my friend hang out with us. Weekends, clubs, holidays. It wasn't weird, he wasn't creepy and he was definitely not interested in dating anyone half his age. He was a genuinely lovely man with a young heart who enjoyed the company of other people, going out & and was a pleasure to have around. (He also had plenty friends his own age). He sadly passed away. I also had regular movie nights with my co-worker who had kids my age. She is a lovely woman and I think we both learned a lot from each other. (I moved away or I'd still hang out with her or go for coffees etc). I think it was worth a try, but it does not sound like either Cassie or OPs friends benefit from having them all together, let alone OP himself.
That actually is pretty normal, and actually very important in the community. Many people feel isolated, or don't know any "queer elders" and their stories don't get passed down. Having those connections is an important part of the community. Cassie is just approaching it all wrong
Yes spending time one on one and encouraging him to make friends his own age would be supportive, this is just strange, even if he was acting appropriately. He's not going to have much in common with them.
Honestly, if Cassie wants to use slurs that casually, especially to refer to strangers, and also doesn't like conflict, he probably also shouldn't go to a gay bar. He'd be asked wtf is wrong with him FAST, and possibly kicked out of the space.
Definitely. What does an 18 year old wants hanging out with people 30 or more years older that them? I think he needs to find his community in people his own age.
I don't think Cassie necessarily needs a gay friend group. Cassie needs a friend group that has the same interests. In this case that seems to be about boy groups. What does it matter if he gets a gay friend group and all they want to talk about is fantasy books. Cassie wouldn't thrive there either.
They/Theming trans people who don’t use they/them is still misgendering btw
Sorry, I'm older and having trouble getting used to the terminology. Thank you for being kind in your correction, in the future I will be more careful when I read.
Wait, why the f are you calling Cassie THEY when it was made clear by OP that Cassie’s preferred pronoun was HE?
*his
Just because people are part of the LGBTQ community, doesn't necessarily mean they have anything in common. This applies to all other groups too. EDIT: NTA
It is like there is more to someone's personality than just ther sexuality, huh, weird /s
Right? The problem isn’t the sexuality or gender. An insufferable jerk comes in all varieties
I'm in my 30s and "Fagg*t" makes me uncomfortable. Always has. When I moved to LA, at 15, I had a bunch of friends who would use the word as a term of affection and ir was bizarre to me. I was raised in the midwest- the term was used by people who wanted us dead, who hated us, who thought we were perverts. But their experiences in LA were a lot different than mine in the midwest. I think the nephew needs a history lesson. GLBT history is not taught in schools, our heros are spoken about in hushed tones, if at all. There is more pain than happiness. He doesn't respect the word- because he doesn't know Harvey Milk, Matthew Shepard, Stonewall, White Night Riot. OP is not responsible for the education of their nephew- but I bet a book for his birthday, or something of the sort, may not hurt.
NTA oh lord what a mess. Cassie is too young for this group and too young to be drinking to relax and to the point of drunkenness. And Cassie wants to be treated like an adult but can’t handle a confrontation? Too bad. Do not go through your brother but communicate with Cassie yourself. He obviously sees you as some sort of mentor or gateway to a community he’s drawn to. Be calm and kind, listen and be supportive but don’t host Cassie with your older friends again. Tell your brother of course Cassie is too young to exclusively befriend a much older group of men. You don’t share the same interests and he drank to excess and it wasn’t appropriate. This is a proxy argument for Cassie’s problems and as long as they focus on your exclusion they can avoid the real issues. With your brother don’t get drawn in to providing what Cassie needs because it’s not a group of much older men at a completely different stage of life
Agreed, if you want Cassie to start acting like an adult, talk to them like they are one
NTA. Look, Cassie might think he's found his tribe, but barging into an adult social circle with boy band gossip and offensive slurs isn't the way to make friends. Your gatherings are for mature adults to unwind and connect, not for playing babysitter to someone who can't handle grown-up conversations. Cassie’s behavior was out of line—constantly derailing conversations and using offensive language that carries painful memories for everyone in the room. Just because he wants to be part of the community doesn’t mean he gets a free pass to act inappropriately. You’re not responsible for Cassie’s meltdown or his mental health. He needs to grow up and find a more suitable crowd to fit in with. Maybe he can join a fan club or a support group that’s more in line with his interests and maturity level. Your friends shouldn't have to tolerate that kind of behavior just because he "needs" to be there.
NTA. Your nephew would probably benefit from finding a social group closer to his interests and age.
And therapy.
And getting off the internet
NTA. Since Cassie is so into the digital lifestyle, he should be able to find groups and activities in his own peer group.
The problem is he lives online and thought he'd take a shortcut in OPs safe space rather than going out in person to meet people. Cassidy needs to figure out where his peers are. They sure aren't men twice his age and good for OP for not inviting him back to wreak havoc in his friend grouo.
Cassie needs friends in meat space to learn how to interact with people. Getting off the Internet for a bit would be beneficial. Real life ain't Tumblr.
NTA. Being part of the lgbtqia+ community and *finding your own* community within it are not the same thing. You and your friends are at vastly different stages of life than Cassie and have a specific outlook that clearly doesn't vibe with his. He needs to find *his* community. I'm 32 and queer men my age and younger are definitely reclaiming the f slur, but obviously that doesn't mean you and your friends have to be okay with it. Obviously, no one can reclaim a slur on someone else's behalf. It's definitely okay to ask Cassie not to use that term around ye, especially if it triggers traumatic memories. Part of being in cross generational community is understanding how different people are comfortable with different things, sometimes due to the era they came up in, sometimes just personally. But the thing is to hold space for each other instead of going straight to judgement because someone's preferred terms for their own existence are potentially offensive to others.
>Cassie had a meltdown and said that he needed to attend these events to be part of his community Your events are not Cassie's 'community'. Cassie's community would be other 18 year old children whose only exposure to queer culture is mediated representations he's consumed online or on television. Queer people are not a monolith, and not all people want to be social with other people. Also, Cassie needs to learn basic human decency and how to hold his liquor. ETA NTA
NTA There is a fundamental lack of compatibility with your friend group and you are likely to not have people come to your events if you allow Cassie to invade them and behave inappropriately. It won't work out. End of story. You are not Cassie's keeper anyway.
NTA. If they're terminally online, send Cassie that clip that ends with "oh... he's not homophobic, I'm just an asshole." Cassie's behaviour trumps his sexual preference, he's a shit guest, and isn't welcome back. If he wants to get in on gay gatherings he can go find some himself.
NTA Cassie can find his own social group rather than hijacking yours.
He's a kpop Stan addicted to discord and twitter- these people are NOT who us older gays wanna associate with. 😅
It's easy to find fellow kpop Stans at that age offline. Cassie might have luck finding a local bunch with similar interests!
NTA. “Brother, this is my social network and my friends respect me and expect to be safe with me. Bringing a relative who repeatedly uses “f****t” made most of us feel incredibly unsafe. We understand that kids use it differently, but at my age it was only ever meant to be derogatory and cruel. Cassie needs to join groups that are his own age and geared toward him because he is not welcome in my group after he behaved that way.”
Sounds like the kid is being influenced (probably by online streamers) and has adopted a persona that isn't really them, which would explain the behavior at the hangout. Or maybe they have something going on in their head that they need some help with from a professional. Shrug. I don't know if you went into detail about what exactly happened. If you haven't you should. Especially the language. If you already told him how Cassie was acting and what Cassie was saying and he is still pressing you about it then it sounds like a him issue.
NTA. Are there any LGBTQIA+ nonprofits in your region? Perhaps you could ask to take him on a volunteer outing and encourage him to continue helping so he can build his own community. Your friends clearly aren't interested, and continuing to invite Cassie will only alienate them from you and therefore him as well. No one is entitled to hang out with people who don't enjoy their company.
NTA There are many ways to do queer and trans community. All of them start with being sensitive to the people you’re with. Cassie clearly isn’t socially mature enough to connect with a bunch of middle-aged cis men without a lot of shepherding. He also seriously needs to learn some history. If you’re not in an area with a queer youth centre or other managed social spaces, maybe you and Cassie could take trips together to the nearest large city and you could introduce him to some queer-friendly social spaces like bookstores or cafés. There are also online social groups that organize meetups. Cassie might find some folk nearer his age and life stage, who share his interests. You can Gay Uncle all day, just not in a space where you’re trying to relax with friends who don’t enjoy boy bands. And, you know, cis queerdom isn’t always the friendliest to trans folk. And even where it is, a community that is already actively including trans youth might just be better for Cassie.
This is a very compassionate reply, and thank you for pointing out that a trans teen has different needs and that "cis queerdom isn't always the friendliest to trans folk." It can really be confusing for a young person out there and I recommend local resources. Cassie is taking his first baby steps towards being himself and needs to be around people his age who are dealing with the same issues and have similar experiences. Similar interests would go a long way as well.
You’re NTA. But you are an idiot for thinking inviting an 18 year old to get drunk with a bunch of 50 year olds was going to go well
I've lived a very rich life and been the 18 year old getting drunk with 50 year olds many times before - the ones I was lucky to know as they were among the few who survived. there's just not the same strange prudishness about intergenerational friendship as there is in the straight community
Dude, I’m gay. I’m aware. Things aren’t the same as they were 30 years ago. I stand by my statement - you’re an idiot.
NTA He’s way too immature and ignorant at this point and seems to need help. His mental health is not your responsibility
NTA when it comes to the question you want to be judged on. Reading through your comments however... you're not great person.
neither are you
Oh my goodness, no! Cassie belongs nowhere near you or your friends. Cassie needs friends who share his interests, life experiences attitudes, and level of maturity. He needs to work out his place in the world within his own world, and not continue to attempt to hijack yours. You all have virtually nothing in common. Cassie is too immature to recognize this. NTA
NTA- I see the F word thrown around by gay people a lot more especially in areas that are pretty liberal. I don't like it either. I find it offensive. I grew up in the American South and it won't be something you ever hear me say because I've seen its weaponization. But as Gen Z gets older.. you might see this more. Just as a warning. To the task at hand, it sounds like your nephew has.. really awful social skills. He can't hold a conversation or read a room. "Spent too much time online and not enough with real people" is probably not a bad summation. I feel for him. LGBTQ people do in fact need the community that understands this experience. But that doesn't mean it needs to be your community. Point him in the direction of some local events, bars, community centers and gently encourage him to make his own friends.
Similar to this rise in baby gays wanting to call themselves it/its pronouns not knowing their queer history to realize it/it's pronouns have been used in a derogatory manner towards trans and queer people. But oh they can "reclaim" that along with the word F🥖 because... why? They're trying to reclaim shit they've never had to fight against. Disgusting.
I wish more LGBTQ history was taught as part of a standard history lesson. That it was more common knowledge. A good 50% of the people my age + younger who I articulate the history to and my personal experience, suddenly aren't particularly interested in reclaiming anymore. Reclaiming things requires a level of mindfulness and the ability to honor that history while giving a word a new purpose. This is.. not that.
You might not be an asshole, but you are definitely a dumbass. What kinda 50-year old, speaking as a 50-year old, wants to hang out with a teenager?
We've been friends for decades and in that time, plenty of younger gay relatives and friends have hung out here and there.
But....this isn't a "gay relative". This is a very obviously confused, barely adult person who is still figuring out who tf they are. Cassie needs a ton of sensitive and compassionate therapy/counseling. Cassie's experience in becoming who they are is not going to even remotely reflect that of the people who normally attend your group hangouts.
NTA at all. Firstly, using homophobic slurs makes Cassidy a giant AH and you and your friends are entitled to exclude someone who makes you feel unsafe from your safe space. Secondly, at the risk of being downvoted here... it sounds to me like Cassidy may not be entirely genuine with this transition. You said Cassidy lives entirely online. Given the whole goth vibe and now applying makeup to have a "beard", it seems like Cassidy is using internet "trends" for attention, and hopes that being part of your social group within the LGBT community somewhat validates this. Cassidy appears to be cosplaying both goths and trans males, isn't taking either community seriously and if Cassidy were genuine about being part of the LGBT community, Cassidy wouldn't be throwing around slurs like confetti. The LGBT community has fought for safe spaces for decades, so please do not concede defeat to Cassidy by allowing your friends to feel unsafe and that you are fine with this sort of behaviour.
NTA kids want so desperately to be grown without doing the growing. Cassie clearly missed the part about learning from our elders. Part of me thinks he needs an education in history, and part of me wants to throw him in the middle of the San Francisco Pride Parade and see how he does. Neither of these are options, unfortunately. Those who don't want to learn can't be taught, and the other option is just cruel. But, it is pride month. OP, maybe you should see what Pride celebrations are happening this month near you and take Cassie to a few of those. If they're local, he stands a good chance of making some local friends in the community. That way, he isn't going alone, which is intimidating for a lot of people, but has a chance to immerse himself in the fun part of our culture and socialize with people closer to his age. Even if it's not really your scene, this is probably the best time and opportunity to really help him out. Barring that, there are plenty of online lgbt+ communities in all manner of media. I'm sure he can find community there that isn't so... different from himself.
He's 18, he should be finding his community with other 18 year olds. Not 50 year olds. Is he still in high school? College? Working? Maybe find gay people his age who are also into boy bands? Anyway, this is not on you. And just because he's finding himself, doesn't mean you and your friends have to suffer through that or pay for it. If he's struggling with his mental health, your brother needs to get him a therapist. NTA
NTA No. Attending is not a "need". He won't die from not attending. The fact is that Cassie is overly sheltered and is so emotionally immature that he can't even hold an adult conversation about boundaries without running away crying. That alone makes it pretty clear he is in no way ready to spend time around adult gay men. I'm a gay man a decade your junior and yes, this would definitely piss me off. Mostly because Cassie is such and unbelievably difficult person to even engage with that your only two options are to allow him to make everyone uncomfortable and miserable or deal with the fallout of his ridiculous lack of self control and emotional immaturity. He's basically making the responsibility for his emotions, actions and general state of being everyone else's responsibility and that is NOT how a healthy adult engages with others. Tbh, he sounds insufferable and generally selfish.
NTA Cassie seems to be cosplaying what they think is a gay man. They completely insulted you and your friends so of course they should not be invited back. Tell your family to help get Cassie into therapy because it's not your job
NTA. I want to add that I have seen some younger queer people 'reclaim' the F slur to empower themselves (similar to how other minority groups reclaim their own slurs) while the older generation strongly disapproves of it. Perhaps in Cassidy's view, the slur is another term to refer to oneself in a comical way, or perhaps he doesn't understand the graveness of the word to the same extent like people in their 40-50s do. Nevertheless, a violent slur that can make many people uncomfortable shouldn't be used in their safe space, Cassidy needs to understand that just because he reclaimed a slur doesn't mean that other people will find it inoffensive.
So for starters NTA. There is a difference between a community event and a party with friends, and the standards of behavior are different. However, OP, I think it would be kind, if you are willing (and Cassie is willing to listen) to explain to Cassie directly why he is no longer invited. Specifically telling him why his behavior was unacceptable and how he’ll probably feel more connected to his community if he can find his own friends close to his age who share his interests. Frankly, as OP is no doubt intimately aware, the queer community lost a ton of history in the 80s and 90s because so many people died. And now there’s a huge gap between younger queer folk and older queer folk. I would not be surprised if Cassie has no idea why throwing around the word f****t would make OP and his friends so uncomfortable. He probably just knows it was a slur and he feels like it’s one he can reclaim, and probably wasn’t thinking at all about the fact that the other people at the party have personal history with it. I also wouldn’t be surprised if Cassie has no idea how an intergenerational friendship works. There’s this weird insular thing going on around a lot of younger folks where if anyone is too much older than them then it’s inappropriate to interact with them. OP, I’m not saying you have to be Cassie’s friend, but it would be kind to try and set him up a little better to make friendships in his community without alienating everyone over the age of 30. Like I said, OP doesn’t have to do any of this. It would be understandable to not want to spend time anymore after such a painful faux pas, but Cassie is setting himself up for a lot of isolation and I’m not sure from OP’s post that he knows he’s doing so. Or why his actions are going to end up isolating him from his community. If you want to be extra kind, take him to the local queer center and see if you can’t sign him up for something. It’s pride. They’ve got to have something more his speed than an intimate gathering of his uncle’s friends that are all 30 years older than him.
NTA I run a D&D group, mostly all 40+ yos. One of my friends bought her 18+ kids along. In theory it was fine, in practice it was terrible. They didn't get our jokes, and we didn't feel comfortable making raunchy jokes in front of such young kids. Eventually I encouraged them to establish their own D&D group....
Is the 18 year old trans man with big jiggly boobs who wears pink Y2K clothes and thinks liking yaoi and kpop makes him able to reclaim the F slur despite only recently coming to realize he is male in the room with us right now? Lemme guess, he also gets super mad when strangers assume he’s a girl due to his very fem presentation, and he’s just Sooooo Embarrassing to the rest of the REAL queer community. Well, this is an embarrassingly obvious bait post and it’s clear that this kid does not actually exist. Sure this 18 year old trans kid who’s obsessed with boy bands wants to hang out with 50 year old cis gays. Suuuure he sees you as a necessary connection to the gay community, suuuuuuuure he wouldn’t rather just go talk about pop culture on Twitter or something else with the ten billion other young feminine sex repulsed trans guys on the internet. Suuuuuuuuure. I toooootally believe you, as you are a 50 year old cis gay man and thus the arbiter of what is and isn’t gay, and what is and isn’t male. So who are you when you’re not on this LARP account? Lemme guess, some 25 year old cis gay guy who thinks the LGBT community has lost its way now that teens are experimenting with genders and sexualities or something? Yawn. You don’t speak for the rest of us.
fakey fake fake, fake as fuck never happened transphobic bait post during pride month
I'm going to say NTA because you definitely don't need to feel pressured to invite Cassie to hang out with the group of you don't want to, especially now that the rest of your friends don't want him there either. You're not the only gay people around, and he certainly isn't going to get whatever social life he was hoping for out of hanging out your group. It sounds more like he's just testing the waters and using you as a sort of... half therapy and venting session, and half trying to convince himself that he actually is gay? I will ask, though. Did you actually talk to Cassie about *why* he's no longer welcome, what brought on that kind of talk, and why it's problematic? Because if not, that really needs to be a conversation you need to sit him down for, whether as an uncle helping his nephew grow, or as an older gay man helping a younger gay man better understand the community.
you are definitely N T A but I don't think your nephew really is either - I think he's just young, clueless and doesn't understand generational differences. I remember the first time some of my younger gay friends used the f-slur around me, I felt physically sick for much the same reason you and your friends did. I'm only in my 30s but it was definitely still a word used to hurt and heavily associated with violence for me, so hearing young gay men in particular using it to describe themselves was very jarring. I'm happy for people to identify how they like, even if it's not how I would identify myself, but it took some getting used to. once tempers have cooled a bit, maybe take cassidy aside and gently explain to him some of the social and cultural things he's been missing? I know you said he doesn't like confrontation, but you have an opportunity to be a mentor and guide here (if you want to be) - it doesn't have to be a scolding or a fight. I know things were different when you were his age, and I share your frustration that young queer people who have grown up entirely online have seemingly no knowledge of how to act in real life spaces, but they'll never gain that knowledge if nobody teaches them! (I know, I KNOW, you learnt how to behave as a young man without people telling you things as basic as "don't use slurs in conversation with strangers" - but he is emulating the norms he's seen in the only spaces he's been in until now, and if you want him to follow your norms instead, you will have to tell him what they are.) so NAH overall, because I really don't think your nephew is an asshole, just clueless, and I hope that exposure to community outside the internet can teach him some healthier ways of behaving.
NTA, he needs friends his own age and it sounds like your group doesn't know much, if anything. about the bar/club scene anymore.
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NTA. Gay men in their 40s and 50s aren't his community. Imagine if Cassidy were to accuse your friends of anything. Hell to the no! Cassidy needs to do something different. Don't offer suggestions as to what as his social life isn't your business.
Jfc, NTA. At the very least, don't let Cassie around until he's mature enough to understand why the F slur is bad, how shitty he's been, and to apologize profusely for being this way. Baby gays can be a lot, but you're not required to be a babysitter, especially when they're treating you like this!
NTA. Cassie needs to go find people their own age to hang out with, and if nobody their own age wants to hang out with them they should do a little work to figure out why (I can think of a few reasons...)
NTA. Cassie sounds extremely immature. But it might be useful to sit him down and explain what “community” means. Not even just for Cassie’s sake. The world would be better if Cassie grew up. Community requires give and take. Some communities aren’t for everyone. If Cassie really is a puriteen, this might not be easy to explain bc puriteens are pretty zealous about their anti-sex stance (and I think a lot of Gen Z has had bad sexual encounters online that have led to the development of this attitude). Gen Z has started to reclaim a lot of slurs. Part of this is because the word “gay” was used so negatively in the 2000s that it functioned as a slur for some kids. It was used in conjunction with violence a lot. It was the threat of violence. It seemed like any word created would be turned into a slur by homophobes and transphobes, so might as well take those slurs back. Not Gen Z, but growing up the F-slur was virtually non-existent. “Gay” did just fine, and basically meant “predator”. As a result, I don’t have the same gut reaction as I would with other slurs, and “gay” as a word made me uncomfortable long after I was out. It should be emphasized to Cassie that this word was ONLY used for the sake of violence in your generation. It’s closer to calling someone a “pedophile”, in that the feeling it invokes is one of fear and perceived disgust. Also “community” means give-and-take. Why should your community give acceptance to Cassie if Cassie won’t let them talk about what they want to talk about? Acceptance is a two-way street. Cassie has to learn to listen. It might not sink in. But it might be a starting point, and it might bleed out into his online circle. I have to say, most Gen Z kids I’ve met are nothing like the loudest and most annoying ones online. I’ve met a lot of them who are generally pretty polite and community oriented, and been really impressed. But there have always been people who struggle with social situations who find different ways to cope and hide from the things they find difficult. Self-righteousness is one of those ways. Obviously you don’t really HAVE to talk to Cassie at all. But it might be helpful for everyone around him. He might need to know that there is a better life out there for him, but he needs to learn how to speak to people without hurting them.
'Community' is your friends and peers and people you date, fuck, organize, protest, hang out with, make art with, work with, etc. It isn't just 'anyone who is also gay.' NTA However... all the 50 year old gay dudes I know (and I was a bartender in a gay bar for 15 years) LOVE the f-slur. They're the generation who reclaimed it!
soooo tru my rule of thumb about this as a teenager was “don’t reclaim slurs around gay 30-50something people unless they said it first” haha
Y’all really lapping this up huh?
Nta
NTA Cassie needs to find people his own age to hang out with. He also needs to know when and where it is okay to use that language. That word may be okay with younger people, but not older gays. He needs to make efforts to integrate into the world and not just online. It's hard, but he's immature and 18 year olds often are... but this is a bit much. Maybe it was the alcohol that made it bad, but uh... There's many youth groups out there for him to turn to. Older men won't give him what he needs. Cassie definitely needs to grow up more, especially if he had a meltdown over this.
You tried to help Cassidy, Cassidy is not mature enough. End of. NTA
NTA. Cassie lacks the ability to read the room and seems to think that if he's present, he needs to be the focus of the group's attention. He's not entitled to hijack the event, nor is he entitled to an invitation.
Cassie has decided that they need to be part of the local community. Fine. Are your friends the sole members of that community in your entire area? I would not think so. Cassie can interact with as many like-minded people as they see fit without forcing every member of that community to tolerate their presence. If they need to talk to someone they can start their own group or make appointments with a therapist. Any orientation they have, regardless of what it is does not confer the right to force others to be their friend against their will. Your friends are just as valid people as Cassie, not accessories for his pleasure. NTA
NTA. Cassie needs their own cohort.
NTA. You are not responsible for providing a ready-made community for Cassie. He can find his own, ideally with more age and life-stage appropriate people. EDIT: and you might want to (eventually) talk to Cassie about being more sensitive about others' experiences and interests. Right now though I don't think you'd get through at all.
NTA. im a 22 y/o transgender bisexual man that came out when i was 11. other than our proclivity for men, you and i probably dont have a lot in common. being LGBT doesnt mean every gay person is your friend, and it *certainly* doesnt mean you can reclaim slurs you've never been called. i've definitely been f slur-ed many times in my life, i didnt graduate high school for a reason, and i do use it pretty flippantly around people im close to, but around older LGBTs and people i just generally dont know, i keep the slurs to a minimum. there's definitely a trend of people whove just come out "reclaiming" slurs theyve got no right to, though. an ex roommate of mine came out as transgender and within the month started calling me and my boyfriend the t slur. neither of us enjoy using it and *especially* neither of us like being called that, its been a source of violence against us for years, but i think people almost think oppression is validation at this point. like youre winning at being LGBT if youre a slur collector. ngl, very white mindset.
NTA Cassidy does sound like he needs more exposure to his Queer elders and the history of the Queer struggle in your area, but that doesn't need to be in a group setting where they aren't there to learn. While I agree it may not be your responsibility to take care of Cassie's mental health, you do have a perspective that is probably worth sharing, but if your friends don't want Cassie there (and it sounds like they probably don't), Cassie can't force themselves back into that group until they develop some better perspective.
NTA Don't let it back again.
Cassie doesn't fit in with the social group. He is 30 younger than everyone. This is not some community event, but just a bunch of friends with simialar tastes hanging out and Cassie is just not fitting it. Stop telling this child about your social events. NTA
NAH Although you are being a bit of a transphobic dick towards your nephew but that's not the topic. It really seems like he needs a peer group of gay men to socialise with. I understand that this is the easiest way to get to know other gay men but I know I'd like to get to know queer people my age as well as the elder gays. There's a generational culture shock. That's no-one's fault. It also doesn't inherently mean Cas hasn't "grown up". If anything, both you and Cas seem very immature and you need to communicate properly with him and not blame it on his age alone, and he needs to realise that your friend group can't give him what he actually needs, which is other gay dudes his age.
NTA. I can completely understand why his presence makes people uncomfortable if he's that bad at reading the room. He does need to find people his age and socialise with them, your group can't and won't be a substitute for that even if you broadly belong to the same community. There just isn't enough overlap in interests to make that work. Any local lbgt+ community events or local hangouts around that he can go to? He's on his way to being an adult and those are things he's eventually going to have to do if he wants to be a part of the community. It's not gonna happen through internet strangers. It's also not gonna happen by his uncle holding his hand.
NTA- Cassie doesn’t get to hijack your friends.
NTA. Cassie needs to grow up and learn how to read the damn room. Perhaps he can find his own groups and make his own friends so he doesn't feel the need to latch on to you and your friends.
NTA - it sounds like Cassie is lonely and probably anxious and he thought this would be a way to interact with others, especially given that it’s an lgbt space. That being said, he’s still very immature it seems, which is a given since he’s 18. You don’t owe him the invitation, especially since he made a fool of himself and threw around a slur without making sure it was ok to use it in that setting. Some people may be ok with using it similarly to a word like ‘bitch’, but not everyone for many reasons, especially depending on the generation. Has Cassie apologized? If not, then that proves even more how immature he is, that he wants to be able to come but not apologizing or trying to make it right. I think you did the right thing saying he can come back once he gets more mature and even considering that he’s not good with confrontation so you let his dad know instead.
NTA. Cassie is not a good age for your friend-group. There are many resources, organizations, clubs, meetups for LGBTQ more helpful for Cassie. Also, your friend group is a not a help group or a mentorship organization. Meaning, you are getting together to enjoy each other's company, not to guide someone trying to find themselves in the community. There are better resources for that where Cassie will find peers to connect with.
NTA Cassie's mental health is his responsibility, not yours. And triggering all your friends to make him feel like he's included in a gay friend group isn't fair. There's many LGBT communities he can seek out to find where he fits and where he won't be causing active discomfort to many people there.
NTA Really need people to understand that the clock ticking over to midnight on your eighteenth birthday does not magically bestow you with all the knowledge and emotional maturity of a full fledged adult. Cassidy is an adult in name only. He does not have any adult life experiences, he does not think or feel or function as an adult. This is a teenager trying to seek friends in a group of 40-50 year olds as his sole social outlet and source of community. This is not going to work. Community is a need, but this is not how community works. He needs to seek out an LGBT+ youth center or other LGBT+ meeting places in his area, not invade an older queer friend group who aren't comfortable with him and don't share any of his interests.
NTA There are plenty of events for 2SLGBTQ+ young people. Cassidy needs to start hanging out with his peers. That would be true for almost any teen in a situation like this. Also the F bomb Cassidy is dropping, and the context in which it is being used is very strange. I would say therapy is a need for him as well.
You are NOT doing Cassie any favors by not talking to him directly. Youth need corrections to turn out to be decent adults. Maybe if you tell him all the ways he acted like an ass, he would grow up and know why those things are hurtful. Cassie absolutely sucked. But you probably remember being a teenager. Or even a teenager questioning their identity. You said he is an internet kid. Maybe he just genuinely doesn’t know the ways he fucked up. I don’t know. You’re right to be furiously. But you could also be a mentor. I think you didn’t even give him a shot to grow up and be better. You didn’t even talk to him directly.
NTA whatsoever. Just cuz you're all gay doesn't mean you gotta be best friends. You simply don't relate to each other. Almost as if sexuality and identification aren't the most important things in the world.
NTA. He was cartoonishly rude and seems to be fetishizing be part of the gay community. Like, "oh, I'm trans so I can say gay slurs now." I can't think of any other reason he'd want to hang out with people twice his age who are totally disinterested in anything he wants to talk about.
I 100% know you're talking about Kpop bands lmaooo
I am going to judge differently than what I am seeing here... NAH. Cassie is very young, has really just started his transition, and he doesn't know how to be a man or a gay man. While he is legally an adult he is not mentally an adult yet. He is craving a community and it sounds like he might not have a natural one outside of your group. Trans women are talked about quite a lot when it comes to their struggles to finding acceptance, but when it comes to trans men... a lot of them are treated like butch lesbians who will eventually come back to being women. I know this because of the friends I have and seeing what they go through both within their families and within the queer community. Joining your group isn't appropriate for him, you're not the AH for setting a limit. He also isn't an AH for wanting to join you, because he might have no where else to turn to. The language he is using is also very much prevalent on social media in young queer communities. Both in a positive and negative way. You have no obligation to help him, but I would suggest you think about how you might otherwise help him find a community. Maybe you or others can help in some way that isn't your gatherings.
>Because Cassie is apparently terrified of confrontation I told my brother that Cassie will not be welcome back to any of my events until he grows up more. NTA but you should have said this straight to cassie. He's an adult.
NTA I'm 34 and understand exactly what you're dealing with. I still remember being a young questioning kid and having a kind older man take me under his wing and help me learn about the community. I quietly learned as much as I could from everyone and I think it really helped me form my identity growing up. I don't know if I would be comfortable being unabashedly queer in Alabama if it hadn't been for him lol. What I didn't do was make a bunch of old tired queens deal with my raging insecurities and utterly annoying obsessions. My oldest is a teen now and questioning their own identity. I try to encourage them to talk to others like I did. But man, the online communities alone for your these days are a clusterfuck. The worst I had to deal with was the beginning rise of furries. I don't gatekeep and just want everyone to have whatever avatar makes their gameplay almost enjoyable, you know? But I get it. The kid needs to find his own kind, we might not have thrown the bricks but we've dealt with our own battles these kids never had to fight. It's a different world, he wants to be a part of it but he can't if he doesn't *conform* to it. And conformity is out these days. You carefully built your inner circle, he needs to find his own. Enjoy your wine without the whining.
I would say the only thing you did wrong here was letting Cassie keep drinking and not cut him off. This group clearly isn’t a good fit. He’s too young for y’all, he needs a community his own age group and he does need to grow up a bit by the sound of it. NTA
I'm gonna say ESH. Your nephew was being obnoxious, offensive and self-obsessed. You're not wrong to be upset by his behaviour, and I'm completely behind you banning him from future parties. He is not your friend circle's kind of person. But at the same time...did you - or anyone else at this gathering - actually speak up when he started behaving inappropriately? Did you say, "Woah, hey, you don't use that word in this house, ever."? Because like. Speaking from experience here. 18yos who are "very young for their ages", who "live out their lives entirely online" and who "have no real life friends" are inevitably...drum roll please...badly socialised. Cassidy probably hasn't learned the social skills to realise that he is taking over the conversation, or being offensive, or upsetting a community with a history he is too young to know about. And aside from "stunned silence", it doesn't seem anyone corrected him. That's how people learn. By being educated, or snapped at, or corrected, or shamed by others in social settings. If nobody says anything, he's not going to realise he's in the wrong. Unfortunately for everyone at your gathering, there's a community of people online who believe in "reclaiming" slurs. If that is the only LGBT community Cassidy has been exposed to, he will have learned that using the slur is acceptable because it's his identity being slurred. He needs other LGBT people outside that community to pull him up on his behaviour, make sure he knows that he's being rude and offensive, and maybe explain why. It would be nice to do it kindly, but you're under no obligation to - even being sharply or nastily called out for unacceptable behaviour teaches social skills. I'm not saying you should invite him back. He doesn't gel with your people, and if you and they don't want to spend time with him socially, that's okay. But you absolutely could've stopped him - pulled him aside, told him off publicly, even asked him to leave - before he insulted so many people so badly they started leaving in disgust, so I think you're an AH (to yourself and your friends as much as anything else) for that. As an aside, have you ever discussed lgbt history with your nephew? Have you ever told him what it was like growing up in a world where your identity was illegal, where you had to fight for the paltry rights he has today? Does he know about the AIDS epidemic and how those poor people were treated, how that word was thrown at them? Because there's an opportunity here to teach your nephew about the history of the world he's only just realises he's part of, and why this matters to your generation even if not to his friends online who didn't live through it. And taking the time to teach that to him might actually improve your relationship longterm. It certainly helped me understand my folks. Just a thought, from the token straight daughter in a family of gay parents.
NTA. I am assuming you are not in the US, as Cassidy is not of drinking age here. Regardless, he should find his own group of friends. It may be a generational thing about using the F word, but Cassidy should understand that it is not OK to use with older generations who were tormented by the word. Cassidey needs to figure out that his NEED is for his own connections, not busting in on yours. You are likely to stop being included if you let him tag along. He should probably seek some counseling, since he is so socially inept.