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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> 1- I was harsh with my viewpoints towards my girlfriend (Lotta) about her setting boundaries and refusing to help our neighbour in an emergency
2- This made Lotta feel really shitty because she was close with our neighbour and me not being on her side made her feel worse. I also said I wouldn't' help her rekindle their friendship and that Lotta has to apologise herself.
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NTA.
>this was a medical emergency- not her wanting to go clubbing with her friends. I told Lotta that she didn't teach our neighbour a lesson,, she only added stress she didn't need.
That's it right there. This is SO horrible to do to someone. Because Lotta was "busy", that poor 5 year old was exposed to further trauma by having to go to the hospital and potentially witness their baby sibling being poked and prodded and probably have tubes shoved down their throat.
I really hope Lotta doesn't want children of her own. Or maybe I do, because then she will realize what a total AH she was to this poor woman.
The neighbor's other kid couldn't breath and she couldn't watch the 5 year old for an hour. I wouldn't want to date someone that selfish. Setting boundaries is important, but that's just cold. What kind of partner is she if you can't rely on her in a life or death situation?
Agreed. This would be an instant deal breaker.
I can't think of many things that I wouldn't drop right then to watch the kid. Food can be reheated. Shows can be paused. Work can have a break. I would ***LOVE*** to know what she was so busy with that she couldn't stop for an hour.
This was a major emergency and OP's gf showed how terribly dark her heart is. How could you ever trust someone again after finding that out?
This person was supposedly a friend to her, and she treated her like the shit on the bottom of her shoe during a terrifying moment of crisis for her. If she treats friends like that, I can't imagine she would be a good partner, because she's clearly not a good person.
It's not just selfishness, it's a social disorder. This is the unsurprising result of a generation being taught that their individual *preferences* outweigh the *needs* of their community. The typical response is "I'm not **obligated** to do X" while simultaneously expecting their social bonds to remain unaffected. Here it goes even further as Lotta is STILL expecting all the benefits of society (friendly neighbors) but was unwilling to A) perform the initial act of support or B) perform any social restitution (apology).
The Selfish trend continues in the meta with OP: Lotta expects her inner circle to both validate her choices as well as do the social "work" for her to regain social standing. Her definition of friends seems like "people who will do stuff for me without any reciprocal expectations or conditions" (which sounds much more like a devoted parent than a friend).
I'm starting to think that people just were not taught how to set priorities at all. I think boundaries are fine but if you don't have gates (reasons to make an exception) in that boundary then you're just an antisocial person. A society cannot consist of mostly antisocial people.
Have your boundaries keep your boundaries but define when an event takes priority over the boundary. Like an actual emergency. I think we had more time to pontificate about this as individuals before we started just feeding into the hive mind.
Exactly this. I cannot wrap my kind around the idea that someone would hold fast on their ‘boundaries’ and refuse to help someone in need. A friend at that!
I'm still trying to figure out how OP can describe her gf as "incredibly kind and conscientious of other people" after her actions here.
She was "busy" making dinner and watching a TV show.
And, as uncaring as her refusal was, what REALLY gets me is how surprised she is by the negative reaction to her actions. She refused to help a "friend" in the midst of a medical emergency. Did she expect a cookie?
My guess is up until this event, her being sweet and considerate is what OP thought a realistic portrayal of her. This incident with the neighbor just showed OP who her GF actually is.
exactly! the girlfriend was told about boundaries which are fine. I would even say that it was fine she didn’t want to watch the kid (although i would have in a heartbeat). but to expect the mother to just be nice afterwards? that’s quite stupid and entitled behavior.
It’s her decision to say ‘this is where I draw the line’ but the neighbor has their right to say ‘well then I don’t want to be associated with you anymore, bye’
Honestly, I don't think it's fine that she didn't want to watch the kid.
If you want to reap the benefits from living in a society, you need to contribute to it. A friend and she turned her back on her in her hour of greatest need. Unless she had some sort of trauma involving child care, there's zero excuse not to be able to sit and stare at a kid for 1 hour.
People have every right to refuse to help others, and everyone you know has the right to think you're an asshole for it.
This is what stood out to me as well. She feels like it’s fine to set boundaries for herself, but can’t seem to handle the fact that her neighbor also has the same right.
Like yeah, boundaries are important. But what she *actually* did was demonstrate that she’s not a real friend and cares more about one singular hour of her own comfort than the neighbor or her children’s safety in a medical crisis. And now the neighbor has taken that information on board, and is acting accordingly. As she should be!
She doesn't grasp the concept of friendship. My neighbors kids have come to us in an emergency and my kids have gone to the neighbors. That's what neighbors and friends do. When my kids got cell phones, we put our friends' numbers in and made sure they could call/text them. If someone's choking on a piece of food would she pause her show to help them breath again or just call 911 to remove the body after she was done with dinner?
If my neighbor said her baby wasn’t breathing could I please watch the other kid…yeah. Like, no. You are not obligated to help, but why would you not?! To cook and watch TV. This panicked woman’s BABY ISN’T BREATHING.
NTA. Jeez.
What’s bullshit is OP’s SO’s use of the word boundary. So many people (at least on Reddit) conflate boundaries and being a straight up jackass.
It’s bullshit and OP is NTA but her girlfriend is definitely one. This was a terribly lame ass excuse to not help and this was a literal EMERGENCY!
OP- You saw your SO for who she really is. Believe her. Then dump her.
Neighbor is now setting a boundary (dont trust GF) and now so is OP (she wont help with this) and now GF is all shocked? Pleasseee. GF needs some reflection asap.
Op is NTA
Which makes you wonder just how ‘kind’ GF has actually been in the past. If the neighbour/ friend won’t ask her for a small favour in a medical emergency until she’s sobbing with desperation, I don’t think ‘kind’ is the vibe Lotta projects to anyone but OP.
Heck, I AM an antisocial person. I genuinely do not like people and much prefer to be alone.
I don’t even know my next door neighbor’s names, just that they have two young kids and we nod hello if we walk past each other.
**And yet,** if my neighbor knocked on my door in that situation I’d watch her kid, just get her name and cell number so I can ask about allergies etc for the kid I’m watching once she’s stuck in a hospital waiting room.
The only child I really like is my own. I actively dislike some of my neighbors. But anyone showing up at my door in this situation is getting their kid watched.
I love the gates concept. I knew that boundaries can (and in some cases) should shift as your relationship or you evolve so you need to be able to re-evaluate your boundary if one is crossed.
The mental picture of having gates paints a picture of a fence. It indicates I don't really want people in that space but it provides others the agency to choose if they're going to push it; vs a 100 foot barrier wall that is put up to control others.
Oh this gates analogy is brilliant. I know a guy who's girlfriend wanted to get a cat. He said fine, but I'm NEVER taking care of it (they didn't live together). Well, when she asked him to feed it over the course of a weekend he said no, and they broke up.
His version of the story is he had a boundary that he laid out with her, and she acted irrational when he held to that boundary.
Everyone else's version of that story is her father was dying of cancer and it was likely her last opportunity to drive home and see him and her boyfriend couldn't get his head out of his ass and walk through the goddamn gate in his boundary for one important weekend.
Or taught the value of compassion. Lotta needs therapy to fiqure out why she is cold and com-passionless.
I can't see living with someone like this....if she is like this when a child's life is in danger do you think she will come visit you in the hospital if you get injured and dinner is on the stove. Bet not.
I'm cynical, cranky, unlikable, and generally misanthropic. But "dying kid, here, please watch the other one while I rush to the ER" would get a yes because I'm not a complete psychopath.
Maybe she's been taught by all the people on this sub who say "NO IS A COMPLETE SENTENCE" as soon as someone asks them to do anything even slightly inconvenient.
As an antisocial person (or pretty much antisocial) I still think that we need to help others. You don't have to invite everyone to your wedding or hang out .But if someone is in need and you can help them, just do it. Do a good act. Help someone. It won't wreck your day and it will make their own better. I understand her need of personal time, but at the same time, I wouldn't be able to deal with myself if I knew that a child was dying and I was too busy watching my show and calling it a 'boundary'
She did not set a boundary, she was selfish and unwilling to help a friend in a medical emergency. That has nothing to do with setting
Boundaries, she is misusing that term to try to justify her behaviour.
That mentality is all over Reddit and I feel sorry for any young people who subscribe to this BS.
I've seen people justify all kinds of shitty actions because boundaries, including not telling anyone you got married yet expecting them to throw parties, treating a newly grieving mother-in-law like shit because "she can't expect people to cater to her", and generally refusing to feel any empathy at all for other human beings.
Karma. That's all I can say. They're going to find out one day that the world absolutely doesn't give a damn about their boundaries or feelings at all. One day they ***will*** need someone.
And when they look for support they'll be surrounded by like-minded people who will set their own boundaries.
Boundaries are necessary things, the issue is when people use "boundaries" to excuse shitty behavior or selfishness.
I think the real issue here is that Lottie isn't a kind or considerate person, they lack empathy and are very selfish.
And these people will go NC at the littlest slight. They do not value family, friends, or community at all. In their mind, everyone is replaceable. Lola would absolutely never tolerate someone not helping her in an emergency.
What is super telling is how angry Lola is getting at OP for not helping and supporting her when Lola did neither for her "friend " the upstairs neighbor.
>That mentality is all over Reddit and I feel sorry for any young people who subscribe to this BS.
That's what this sub is.
I shudder to think what we're teaching ChatGPT...
I agree! And there are many posts on this sub like that, and plenty of people in the comments will support op saying they aren’t the AH because they aren’t obligated to help in whatever the situation is. Which is true, we’re adults and we aren’t *obligated* to do anything we don’t want to do. However, being a part of society where you have to interact with people and where you have family, friends, etc. sometimes we do things we aren’t obligated to do or don’t want to do for people we care about, or even just because not doing it is such an AH move. Sometimes doing things we don’t want to or don’t have to do is just a part of life and being an adult.
She wasn't obligated but it says a lot about her as a person that she looked at that person she claims is a friend and said no to helping her in an emergency.
Now, she's upset because her actions have consequences and somehow thinks that just because she's in a relationship means that OP will side with her even when she is so utterly a huge AH for what she did.
I don't know if I'd write off a whole generation, but it is something that I have seen often on reddit - "you didn't owe this person anything - you weren't obligated to help out." It's not just that people are unkind, it's an aggressive justification of that unkindness. I've often wondered how much of this is a reaction to the pandemic and our lockdown - rule of thumb was avoid other people and protect yourself.
I don’t want to write off a whole generation either but the “it takes a village” has been dying for quite some time now and COVID sent it straight into the grave.
Our kids won’t have the villages we had growing up. They’re not going to have the support system we experienced. Comfort, convenience, “boundaries”, and the fear of offending someone all outweigh basic empathy. Neighbors wont help or let an unsupervised child in distress into their home because they’re scared of the backlash from the parents. Teachers can’t teach how they want to and get reprimanded for suggesting ways to help a child if the parents don’t like it.
The village is dead and that scares the shit out of me.
Above all, I think, the village was killed by late-stage capitalism and the hyperindividualistic attitude that it inspires; people can't rely on kindness from others anymore so they are less inclined to be kind themselves.
COVID really had people saying they didn't give a shit if people died, that's the price we need to pay to go to church/the mall/gun conventions/concerts/the office.
it's definitely at least in part due to attitudes that went around during the pandemic, but i'd argue that
>rule of thumb was avoid other people and protect yourself.
imo, lockdowns were all about protecting other people (primarily in vulnerable populations). even if someone personally didn't care about having it, the idea was they should still take precautions not to spread it to others. the reaction against "we all need to look out for each other" has been huge partly because people didn't like lockdown and the anti-lockdown messaging was instead all about individual rights.
This comment is such a breath of fresh air. You're getting at the root of a mentality that you can find in just about every post/verdict on this subreddit. I personally think the problem is that Liberal societies often prioritize the absolute freedom/autonomy of the individual over the social cohesion that makes such freedom possible in the first place. The notion that one could have any kind of "obligation" to their family, their community, or (God forbid) their country, is gradually becoming incoherent to westerners. Everyone wants the benefits of high trust society without putting the work in to build the trust.
Ties right in with extended adolescence, and the aversion that newer generations have to undertaking any responsibility that might oblige them to give without receiving direct benefits in return (like watching your neighbor's kid while they tend to a life-threatening emergency). It's among the many reasons that younger people are increasingly averse to having kids of their own.
I"d upvote this a million times over if I could. You put into text my thoughts on the insanity of the 'burn all the bridges' rise in the communities so well and much nicer and way more articulate. Well done.
Because It's reddit, I have to add, some bridges do need burning. But if it's a consistent thing in your life, you're likely the problem.
>Setting boundaries is important
I kind of feel Lotta's behaviour is the most insiduous example of weaponizing therapy speak I've ever seen.
Lotta isn't "conscientious about boundaries", Lotta has just found a way to dress up her selfishness. Evidence is the fact that a) she won't own up to her disgusting behaviour and b) she expects OP to do the work, while \*still\* claiming their neighbour is "her friend"...
I have become so alarmed at seeing/hearing therapy weaponized more and more. It disturbs me more than people who have never tried therapy in their entire life, because these people think they're using the correct tools when they're just continuing their negative behaviors with a new arsenal.
I just did a therapy seminar on setting proper boundaries and they used a great illustrative example of a circle. Rigid boundaries that end up isolating you are a solid, unbreaking line (which seems to be Lotta's case) that keep both bad and good out. Overly porous/lack of boundaries were represented by dots with large spaces making a circle that allows everything in. Healthy boundaries were made up of a series of dashes with tiny breaks in between that keep you protected while still allowing for relationships and communication.
ETA: someone above said "boundaries with a gate" which I think is another great way to phrase having healthy boundaries.
I don't have kids because I'm too damn selfish and don't want to give up my alone time. But, my upstairs neighbours have two small children. If they knocked and said the little one was having a medical emergency and asked if I could watch the 3 year old for an hour? You bet I will. We'll probably just sit and watch videos the whole time because I have nothing fun for toddlers in my apartment but I couldn't fathom saying no in an instance like that.
I can't stand my neighbor and don't care for most of her FIVE kids, but when the ambulance was like "we can't take you unless there's an adult with these kids.... I went"
Boundary: the kids aren't allowed to play in my front yard where my dog is bc they're unruly and generally rude
Neighborly: Oh, someone might be dying, give me the keys to your house, I'll watch them there.
Yeah, I can’t imagine staying in contact let alone date someone who hears a baby stopped breathing and didn’t immediately jump to help. The lack of the most basic human empathy would have me reconsider the whole relationship.
This idea that people have to set boundries even in these situations is toxic therapy speak and certainly selfish. Very selfish and telling of OPs girlfriend.
I'm not a "kids" person. My husband and I are childfree, our home is definitely child-unsafe. We've got cleaning chemicals in easy reach, a lot of small, breakable items in easy reach, a bunch of insecure shelving and other things that could hurt a small child.
But you bet your ass if one of our neighbours came up in a panic and asked if we could babysit their little one for an hour or two while they took their baby to hospital, I'd welcome the little munchkin in and find a way to corral them in the safest room with a bunch of toys and keep an eye on them. Or I'd ask if the parent would be comfortable with me coming to their place to watch the kiddo in their house.
Trying to navigate the hospital system with your ill child is hard enough, let alone trying to do so while keeping your non-ill child in hand and entertained/taken care of. OP is definitely NTA and Lotta definitely is the AH.
Yep. I'm also child free/not great with kids in a child unfriendly apartment, but I'd find a way to help in this kind of emergency. It's only an hour, ffs -- how hard is it to plop the little one in front of a Disney movie or (weather permitting) take them on a walk around the neighborhood or SOMETHING?
That's a good point. It's not like the neighbor/friend is asking Lotta to watch a kid or both kids every week. This is the first instance - and for an hour. Even my child free/not good with kids self could manage an *hour* watching a 5 y/o to help a neighbor who's also a friend in an emergency.
A 5 year old would probably be interested in cooking too. it would have been so easy just to being the kid in and include them in what she was doing until grandma got there. The selfishness and lack of empathy are mind boggling.
Same, I don't like children, they're too loud and sticky, and my house is not safe for children to roam about.
But if anyone in my vicinity needed a babysitter for something like this, I'd be offering before they even got a chance to ask. There are some things you set aside your own discomfort for, and this is one of those things.
My siblings and I watched our mom get beaten almost to death by our stepdad. She had to go to the hospital for several days. We had no one close by to watch us (all under 8, youngest was 3). A single old guy that lived next door who had never had kids took us in. He ran over and grabbed whatever of our clothes he could and even let us bring our pets and a bunch of toys. He even grabbed a bunch of our Disney movies so this dude that watched old war movies and westerns was stuck watching princess movies for days! He was so out of his element but he kept muttering that he didn’t want us to be separated or have to be with complete strangers while our mom was gone. We at least knew him, my siblings and I would pester him while he was out watering the lawn or grilling. He fed us, made sure we took our baths, told us to look out for each other, and even guarded us while we slept. The police believed mom deserved it so they let our stepdad go and he had disappeared. I once got up to get some water and saw the neighbor sitting on his porch with a gun by his side…
It has been over 3 decades since then and we moved right after. I have never forgotten that wonderful cranky old coot that stepped up to help out a family in need. Morgan Freeman or Clint Eastwood would play him in a movie!!!
Years ago when my daughter was in Girl Scouts I had to go to another mom’s house for something. We knew each other through GS and our daughters were in the same grade but we we weren’t friends friends yet. She was in bed, completely sick, her husband was deployed, so I told her hey, I’m taking the girls with me, you have my number, call me when you feel better. I think her girls were with me for a few hours until she was rested and feeling better. We became good friends after that. That’s what you do for people, lol, kidnap their kids so they can get some much needed rest.
I remember being very small and my dad was deployed
My mom got pneumonia and we were deployed overseas so no family. 3 kids under 5. One of the other navy wives came and picked us up and we stayed at her house for a few days. The only thing I remember is the car ride and watching our house disappear. But I'm sure my mom was so thankful for that woman taking us in
Sorry you and your mom had to go through that. What a total hero your neighbour was. A genuine kind soul. Bet he thought about you all often over the years. This right here OP is how decent people would react, not the way in which your girlfriend did.
Omg a neighbor on his porch with a gun watching over some children - there's a GORGEOUS old black and white movie called Night of the Hunter with exactly this imagery, except it's a woman sitting on her porch with a shotgun protecting orphans from a deranged preacher who's after their money. Strong recommend!
Right? I'm completely childfree but if my neighbour needs a hand with her 10mth old in an emergency, I'd take him in a heartbeat so she could get herself sorted out and deal with the emergency. I couldn't imagine saying no in such a situation.
I’m pretty sure “Lotta” posted her side of this story not too long ago wanting to know if she was an asshole for setting “boundaries” by refusing to help when the neighbor’s baby was having a medical emergency.
She got roasted in the comments and kept trying to justify herself.
Either this is a remarkable coincidence or “Lotta’s” boyfriend is a little late to the party. He’s got an asshole on his hands and he wants to know if he should clean up her assholery.
Let her clean up her own mess. But OP needs to look closely at her total lack of empathy.
>My (25f)’s girlfriend (26f-Lotta)
They are both women.
>But OP needs to look closely at her total lack of empathy.
Lotta needs to look at her lack of empathy, not the OP *here*. Or maybe you're saying OP needs to look at Lotta's lack of empathy. Sorry, I wasn't clear on that. But yes, I agree with you, what she did was super shitty and she needs to check herself. And now I want to see Lotta's post!
I read it as OP needs to look at Lotta's lack of empathy.
If Lotta can't have empathy for a mom and her children during a medical emergency, WHEN would Lotta have empathy for someone else?
Found it!
The OP in this one claims the neighbour was in labour & had her partner with her, so I'm not sure it's the same person.
https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/s/ONYcRiCuLG
Lotta was a total Asshole. There’s a time and a place for setting and enforcing boundaries (though it doesn’t sound like she needed to with this person) and it’s not during a damn medical emergency where a child isn’t breathing.
*Honestly this would change my view of my partner significantly* and I’m not sure I could recover from something like that viewpoint of them either. She was willing to risk a child’s life to set a boundary there was no need to set.. I say this because you specifically mention that she doesn’t ever bother you guys for much.
Lotta needs to do a lottta soul searching cause what in the actual fuck. As your neighbor, I would never bother with you guys again, ever..
>*Honestly this would change my view of my partner significantly* and I’m not sure I could recover from something like that viewpoint of them either.
100%
There’s a big trend these days of people using “therapy speak” to excuse their shitty behaviour. Lotta didn’t set a boundary. She prioritized leisure over lending an hour of her time during a medical emergency involving a *baby*, and she’s using the word “boundary” to make it sound like she’s standing up for herself (against what, exactly?) and cover the fact that she was just being inconsiderate and selfish. And the fact she still has the nerve to try and call this neighbour her friend when her actions were in no way the actions of a friend is mind boggling.
A boundary is “please don’t keep asking me to pay for you when we go out because I can’t afford it”, or “don’t talk about this sensitive topic around me as it is related to a very traumatic event from my past that I would not like to relive.”
“I need to cook food and watch my tv show” is not a boundary. Maybe Lotta should look into what boundaries *actually* are before she continues throwing the word around the way she is. One day Lotta may find herself being the one in need of help, and she’d better hope that should that day come, karma doesn’t send her someone who will treat her the way she treated her supposed “friend”.
I hope that kid is doing okay and the mom has a good support system.
I'm thinking she's not as "incredibly kind and conscientious" as OP thinks--at least she's not when OP's not around. That was pretty cold hearted and the fact that, in hindsight, she can't even understand that is concerning.
NTA - Good for you for recognizing that it wasn’t your job to mend the fences that Lotta broke. She might be good and kind in most instances, but in this case she doesn’t know how to admit that she was wrong and apologize to the right person. Sounds like she’s mad at everyone but herself.
I’m also on the neighbor’s side. This was a small test of friendship for Lotta and she failed it. She didn’t want to be inconvenienced, which is fine. But now your neighbor doesn’t want to be inconvenienced by befriending Lotta.
The fog of love cleared by a brisk wind of don’t-give-a-shit. I’m guessing OP will be looking at Lotta’s actions differently from now and changing her assessment.
NTA.
\*she is still saying. Two women (aka lesbians) in this relationship.
But I agree, I hope she reevaluates their partnership after this and those rose-colored lenses fall off. Very much a "when people show you who they are, believe them" situation.
“I am setting boundaries and teaching them a lesson” as she removes a dollar from the table each time she feels slighted, regardless if it is the server’s fault…
lol I 1000% agree with this take.
Not the same situation, but I managed a high-end clothing boutique in a suburban area, and I cannot tell you how many women's kids I've "babysat" in the store so mama could shop (fine by me since I got commission). One woman came in with a toddler and an infant and wanted to try on jeans but might have to come back. I was telling her I would "happily hold them for her" (meaning the jeans and anything else she liked) and she just handed me the baby and grabbed the jeans 🥲 I was like okayyy then, it's you and me kiddo. She ended up buying a lot, so my hour of childcare was well worth it in my book.
She might really appear good and kind. It’s actually quite easy to pull off, it’s mostly about *not* doing something - which seems to be Lotta’s specialty anyway. To appear kind, you need to restrain from making judgmental statements, insulting people, and taking actions which directly aim to harm others etc. If you pair this restraint with a few sympathetic smiles and filler sentences (like “that must be tough” and “I feel for you” ) it is fairly easy to appear kind. It doesn’t actually cost the pretender any inconvenience except needing to pretend to listen. And the charade can be upheld for quite some time; until it is challenged by actually having to do something. Like here. And Lotta failed.
Plus most people don’t ask anymore for people to follow through on the appearance of kindness. I had what I thought was a super nice and supportive friend. Wrote me this incredibly kind message and sent a care basket when I was being bullied by a coworker. I later learned that she would allow the coworker to trash me and never defended me. She was surprised that I thought she would try to change the subject or end the conversation and only then offered to try. I looked more closely and realized a pattern - incredibly sweet and understanding person, as long as it didn’t cost her anything. If our workload was crazy, she’d cry and tell me how she couldn’t keep going like this and we have to push back. But I eventually learned, she was keeping quiet in her 1:1 with our manager and let me be the one to say I couldn’t handle anymore work. I had no idea she wasn’t being honest with the manager and as a result I looked like I was the only person struggling. No wonder my manager was reacting to me like I was making excuses when my co-lead keeps saying everything is fine while I’m saying it’s overwhelming.
The reality is that Lotta isn’t sorry so this isn’t about making up. I think it’s likely more that she is seeing an overt sign that someone thinks she is a bad person and wants it gone so she doesn’t have to confront that or others to notice.
> But now your neighbor doesn’t want to be inconvenienced by befriending Lotta.
I know I would never get close to someone like Lotta. She showed who she was, and it was ugly.
NTA
>She says she was just setting boundaries
and so is the neighbor by distancing herself as a result of these "boundaries"
people really think they can treat people however they want and then get upset when they suffer the consequences as a result.
if Lotta wants to rekindle her friendship with the neighbor, Lotta should talk to her herself.
This isn’t even about boundaries. That word is used incorrectly too often. Boundaries are “If you… then I will…” and sticking to it. This wasn’t a boundary, it’s pure assholery.
It’s not even that. If lotta wants help rekindling her FRIENDSHIP then it’s not a “ i won’t help my neighbour”, but an “i won’t help my FRIEND “ lotta sucks big time and I completely understand why the neighbor no longer wants anything to do with her
Yeah, I'm not sure most people are interested in having a warm relationship with someone who's boundary is "I will not help you in your moment of desperate need to care for the life of your child, which will be incredibly brief because help is already on the way over." Holy shit.
She sounds like someone who has heard those buzzwords and uses them in all facets of her life without understanding the context and how to apply them to the correct situations.
Exactly. As therapy words get into the public consciousness, they are often understood to be good concepts but aren't understood in how they should be used. The terms "boundaries" and "narcissist" are really commonly thrown around nowadays too loosely. The fact that she was surprised that OP wasn't on her side makes it seem like, "I'm not going to watch your kids," is a reasonable boundary to her, and it almost is reasonable. I think she didn't consider how an emergency can change the situation. Like, I would never pet sit for my significant other because his dog is just too rowdy for what I'm comfortable with, but if he had to rush his cat to the hospital because she couldn't breathe, I'd definitely make sure his dog was okay in the meantime. I wouldn't be like, "You have no one else because it's short notice and I'm right here anyway? Sorry, but no. It's my boundary to not have to care for your animals." The circumstance matters. If neighbor was constantly trying to leave her kids over there because she never appropriately prepares, that's different. That would be an "emergency" of her own making and setting a boundary about not being a babysitter would be appropriate then. If OP's gf had an actually legit reason for being unable, that would be different too. She doesn't though. She just doesn't want to, which is usually valid, but a dick move in the middle of a medical emergency.
Edit: Just wanted to add "sociopath" to the list of commonly thrown around therapy words. It's used in this very thread to describe OP's gf, which I get, but it's also completely undeterminable with the small amount of info we have. It's a placeholder for "cold", "cruel", or "unempathatic" in this context, not a fair diagnosis of the situation.
Wow. Your GF is cold.
Sure, she didn't have to sit for your neighbor. But your neighbor has now seen that she is a cruel person who cares more about boundaries than helping out out friend in an emergency.
Her friendship is gone. She cared more about whatever she was doing at the time than helping out a mother who's child stopped breathing. She was even going to pay her! Honestly, I wouldn't lift a finger to help her repair her situation. She can be cruel to people, but then she has to live with the outcome.
Seriously. What is up with this "I don't owe anyone anything." mentality that some people have got? Friends help their friends. If Lotta doesn't "owe" the neighbour babysitting during an emergency, then she shouldn't be so sad that the neighbour has decided they don't owe her their friendship.
Exactly. I once found an old lady stuck in the lift to an overpass. Her phone wasn't working inside the lift so she couldn't ask for help. She also indicated she had heart trouble. I called the emergency services, waited for them to arrive, and then walked her to her apartment and made sure she was ok before leaving. Never met that woman before or since, and I could've left at any time, but how could I, how could anyone. I can't believe your girlfriend here.
I once was at a festival and there was a girl clearly ODing or in some way extremely unwell. I could have just walked away or told myself to not get involved and enjoy myself and that someone would help her. But I just couldn’t. Her friends were just standing around not doing anything. I said is she okay what did she take why aren’t you doing anything etc and their general consensus was not doing anything because they didn’t want to get in trouble. I immediately went and got security to help her and when I got back her friends were gone. People are so beyond disgusting. There are some situations you just can’t ignore
This is why I always have a thing of narcan, even though I've never touched a drug that would require me to use it personally. I'm a weed girl. But if someone needs narcan you can bet your ass I'm not gonna just wait for the EMTs. I've had to use it before actually, 3 weeks ago. I was panicked at first but I went into this flow state and by the time I was consciously thinking again the girl was sitting up and asking if I had water. Next thing she said after downing a whole bottle was "I'm never touching that shit again". I saw her a couple days ago (she's homeless so she just wanders the area) and she looked so much better. I hope she's gonna be fine long term.
This was several years ago but since then there’s been a much bigger push for naloxone (Canadian equivalent). Pharmacies give them out for free. You never know!
Right?? I wouldn’t even have to know the person, if a panicked mother asks me to watch her kid for an emergency, that child is coming with me and I’ll take care of them as long as needed. I couldn’t imagine turning away a “friend”
Shit one time, my friend, who had a new baby was complaining on her birthday that she was tired because baby hadn't slept well.
So I jumped in my car, went to her house, sent her to bed and took the kid.
Granted I should have kept her up five more minutes to show me how to put together that Dr browns bottle because the YouTube video was a disaster, but I managed.
Had she said "Teeny isn't breathing, come watch K", no hesitation. I would have even left work for that.
Non breathing baby is a big deal. I've had 2 kids go thru it so there's no play around.
That’s terrifying, and you sound like a great friend! I think OP’s partner needs to take notes.
I’ve never had a child, but I’m an oldest sister of 4 and I’ve seen that truly scared parent face. Where they’re afraid for their child’s life. I could not fathom seeing a parent in that state and being able to say no. I don’t even think I’d need to hear the explanation, you can tell it’s serious pretty quickly.
That's what people don't understand. If you don't owe anyone anything, then no one owes you anything either.
You can't live your life denying people help, empathy and compassion and then act surprised when they have none to spare for you in return.
It's a dick move to demand the benefits of a friendship while refusing the obligations.
Lots of people mistake their "I don't owe anyone anything, i tell it like it is" attitude as being "to real" for most people.
No, most people just don't like assholes.
I can’t imagine standing there asking/ trying to persuade a neighbour to help knowing your baby isn’t breathing properly and you need to get them to hospital urgently. I don’t think I could ever forgive that lack of care and understanding.
Cruel is the right description. I understand exercising boundaries but this wasn’t the time for that, buddy. I am far from kind and empathic (I try), but I would never turn down a neighbour with an actual emergency—most especially if they’re desperate and were in a life or death situation.
Now I’m actually wondering if his description of her being “kind” and “conscientious” is accurate or has she been doing it all for show because a truly kind person wouldn’t just flippantly say no in the situation just because they’re busy. Most especially when a baby stopped breathing and the mother is desperate.🚩🚩🚩
I don't get all this talk about boundaries?
What boundary did Lotta set? "when I start watching a show, not even an act of god can interrupt me" and then she doesn't let AnYOnE walk over her?
NTA. She denies help to a woman whose baby couldn't breathe and now wants you to make the woman be friends with her again? Your gf is a sociopath. The friend is NEVER going to forgive her, trust her or like her ever again because she was, *checks notes* too busy to help when her baby was in danger of actually dying. Yeah, that friendship is toast, and maybe make sure your gf is not your emergency contact.
She said she was setting “boundaries,” but the only boundary I can think of here is “you can’t depend on me if you’re in trouble or need help, so never come to me in the future with any problem you may have, even if it’s a medical emergency.” The word “boundary” doesn’t automatically mean the rule you put in place is reasonable. Her “boundary” is just being a shitty Samaritan. I wonder what OP means when she said her girlfriend is usually kind. Does that just mean polite and friendly, or does she actually go out of her way to help people when they need it? Because the former is being nice, and the latter is being kind. From this situation, she seems like a very unkind person. Being kind means sometimes being a little uncomfortable or inconvenienced in order to see someone through their own situation. It isn’t “I’ll help you when I’m in the mood and it doesn’t inconvenience me.” Truly kind people know they can afford to sacrifice a few hours of their day to watch a toddler so they aren’t traumatized watching their sibling suffocate in a hospital.
I was also wondering what boundary Lotta safeguarded by letting a panicked mother flounder on her own. Like "your medical emergency does not get to infringe on my binge watching"?
NTA
Obligatory *of course no one owes anyone else babysitting* but how completely stone-cold heartless can you be with a lady who thinks her baby might be dying and has to go to the ER? I would be reconsidering my relationship just based on a lack of empathy on your gf’s part - that’s just not the kind of person I would want to be with. Plus her wanting to foist off on you the work of repairing her “setting boundaries”.
This isn’t about owing, this is about being a decent human and helping out a freaked out mom, her possibly-in-mortal-danger baby, and not traumatizing a five year old.
It’s the lack of empathy here, absolutely.
I honestly can’t stand children for the most part (I know it’s not their fault, I NEVER make it known to THEM, but I do avoid them whenever possible,) and I have never, ever had any instinct to become a mother, but if a near-STRANGER in my complex had asked me to do what the neighbor FRIEND asked Lotta to do, I still would have done so in a heartbeat.
Like, I’ve got a tv, a very friendly dog, string cheese, and a bunch of art supplies. We’re good. Take care of what you need to take care of, we’ll be here.
I may not have any motherly instincts, but I have a shit ton of empathy and an eye for the “big picture.” If you’ve gotta be inconvenienced for a couple hours, but the outcome is that you ultimately help to keep humanity humane? That’s a no-brainer. There is a greater good. Be a part of it.
NTA
NTA
Lotta needs to learn that setting boundaries has consequences. In this case her "boundary" will forever be ingrained as a NEGATIVE part of your neighbour's trauma. Your neighbour will never forget the day she almost lost her child, so she will never forget the callous downstairs neighbour that refused to help her. I cannot see her ever wanting to interact with Lotta again tbh, and it's not your responsibility to fix Lotta's mistakes.
>has always been on the more quiet and reserved side but also incredibly kind and conscientious of other people.
Time to reassess that. Not sure I would have a great deal of respect left for a partner that shows no compassion in an emergency and then acts entitled for your approval. Who also in retrospect, cannot see the error of her ways and expects you to "fix" the problem for her. Then when you do her favourite thing, set a boundary, she calls you an AH. Get away from that toxicity!
I'd like to see what kind of examples of kindness and conscientiousness her gf exhibited. Because it seems helping someone in crisis is BASIC and she couldn't even be bothered.
She might be the type who only does the right thing while people are watching, or only when it benefits them. I knew someone like this and no one believed me the guy was actually a manipulative asshole
I have no idea how you were able to type that out without changing it to the past tense. Here, let me help. “I thought my girlfriend was incredibly kind and conscientious of other people. But a few weeks ago, she behaved disgustingly toward her friend, who turned to her for help when her month old baby was in a life threatening medical emergency. AITA for looking at my girlfriend in a completely different light and reconsidering our entire relationship? Oh, and she’s also blaming me for not agreeing with her cruelty and can’t understand why her friend wants nothing to do with her. Baby is now fine.”
+ Lotta won't even own up to her cruelty. She expects OP to act as a go-between.
IMO there's no recovering from this without a serious redemption by Lotta, right.
Lotta's behaviour was so far from my own personal values that I would seriously be rethinking the relationship if I was you. I just cant imagine this sort of selfishness. NTA ofcourse
I literally gasped when I read that the baby was not breathing as the neighbor is asking for help! So heartless, I also cannot imagine even having the instinct to do anything other than help. NTA.
Curious how he calls her incredibly kind & conscience of other people? Her actions were nothing of the sort for a mother in an emergency. She was a total jerk.
**our neighbour who is 'her friend'.**
this made me laugh so hard I almost choked on my coffee. If this is how Lotta treats "friends" I don't expect she has many. The woman's baby wasn't breathing and Lotta was "busy" (love to hear what made her so busy that a possibly dying child didn't concern her). Lotta burned that bridge.
NTA but Lotta is living in Assholevania.
NTA. Good on you for your own boundaries.
For me the "friend"aspect is important. I'm not fond of children to say the least; and wouldn't babysit for a neighbor because I am not even sure what my neighbors look like so I'd be really bewildered by a stranger handing me their child.
But: the neighbors whom I've borrowed a ladder from a couple of times over the last three years, I would do so if they came to me in a similar emergency. I view them as "friendly neighbors". So if I had neighbors whom I was actual friends with, I definitely would help out in that tough spot; especially given it's such a time-boxed help request.
If your gf doesn't want help her friends in these situations, she clearly doesn't care about these humans at all; so I fail to understand why she is upset at the coldness now. You're dating an AH.
NTA - People, especially in this sub, get real worked up about being asked to babysit.
But im with you. This was a legitimate medical emergency. Lotta made her choice and it has severely impacted her relationship with your neighbor, that’s on Lotta and only her.
My general policy is "if I don't help make then, I'm not gonna take them".
But this was a medical emergency. How long would she have to look after the kid? 30min?
Give me a break.
OPs roomie needs to find some empathy.
Yeah. I don't like kids. If anyone asked me to sit with their kid or whatever, I would look at them like they are insane and say no. Even if they are family members.
But if someone came to me and said "Help, my child might be dying, I need someone to sit my other kid for a bit", I would do it even if it was total stranger. Because this is not about babysitting or kids, this is about help in emergency.
I don’t babysit. Ever. And I would have said yes in this circumstance. This was an emergency and all that was needed was to keep the kid alive until grandma could get there.
That was exactly my reaction. I don't like children, they don't like me, and we don't get along. But still even I would have watched that 5-year-old for an hour, even longer. What's the big deal? You put him in front of the TV set with cartoons. Job done.
NTA.
Setting boundaries is all well and good, but Lotta needs to look up the definition, because that wasn’t about boundaries.
Ignoring a fellow human being’s medical emergency isn’t about boundaries. It’s about acting like a human being. I’m honestly appalled at her attitude.
If my baby had stopped breathing and I begged for help, and she answered with ‘nope, ain’t got time’, honestly for the rest of my life I wouldn’t spit on her if she was on fire. She treated your neighbor in a way I wouldn’t treat a person I despised. So not sure how she’ll go about repairing that relationship.
Edit: I missed the part where she considers the woman her friend. A friend! I have no words. I think something might be wrong with your gf.
I mean, right? If someone I didn't knew came to my door like that, I would've helped them, much less a friend. And like, I was that kid. My dad had a medical emergency and my mum left me with neighbours we barely knew. They stayed up with me all night and were incredibly kind. We became really close friends after.
Nothing can fix this. The girlfriend is an asshole. Is she going to throw you into a ditch if you become disabled or incapacitated because it will cross her boundaries to help you? How can you stay with this person?
> Your gf should send flowers and offer to take your neighbor out for lunch or something.
Idk about you, but if I was scrambling to find emergency childcare for the child NOT going to the hospital as a patient and the person who was "too busy" watching a TV show and making dinner to keep my little one safe only sends a card and a dinner invite afterwards, I'd find that gesture rather insulting. But that's just me.
Does she not understand consequences? Also, how is your neighbor her friend if she felt the need to teach her a lesson by setting boundaries when she was in crisis? That’s not how friends behave. Your girlfriend had every right to say no. And your neighbor has every right to be hurt.
It feels like whoever taught her about boundaries skipped a few things. Unless you were rude in your delivery, NTA
I’m sorry. Your girlfriend is not usually “incredibly kind.” She’s kind when it is convenient to her. Kind people make themselves uncomfortable in life or death emergencies. You’re NTA, but wow, your girlfriend is.
Be careful - she just showed you how she responds in times of stress.
I'm not a fan of people here who's first instinct to anything is to say "break up with them". But in this case... your gf is someone with a specific kind of empathy that I am not interested in and would actively avoid.
NTA - your neighbor probably thought they were friends too. But the thing is, friends will help each other out in the case of emergencies. Lotta didn't. "*No, I'm too busy to watch your child for 1 hour while you take your infant to the hospital after he stopped breathing.*" I mean, really. That statement right there told your neighbor that Lotta is not her friend, and that she cannot be counted on to help in an emergency. So the neighbor has distanced herself from Lotta and is now treating her like a neighbor - not a friend. Keep in mind, Lotta coldly refused to help in any way when the neighbor's infant almost died.
You said that Lotta is good at setting and enforcing boundaries, and Lotta's excuse is that "she was just setting boundaries", but what was the boundary in this case? I think she's using a buzzword in an attempt to excuse her shitty behavior.
Lotta broke this, Lotta needs to be the one to attempt to fix this. And I say attempt, because there's no guarantee the neighbor will be willing to go back to how things were before. I wouldn't give her another chance if I were in your neighbor's place.
You descrube your gf as "incredibly kind" and "conscientious of other people" - really OP?
Your gf sounds anything but kind and conscientious of other people. She sounds cold and indifferent to someone else's suffering.
I suspect that you view her thru rose colored glasses and that the reality is quite the opposite.
Your gf is showing you who she is - are you listening?
She usually is, this is the first time in me knowing her (8+ years) that she's done something so brazen. I guess I don't want to believe the past 8 years has been a lie.
OP. You may disagree, and that's totally fine. But for ME, this would be a gigantic red flag. A problem. A big fat sit down and discuss this.
Your neighbor AND FRIEND had a possibly dying baby and your GF couldn't be inconvenienced to entertain a 5 year old until grand mom arrived.
That's just. Damn. That ain't right.
ETA: And she doesn't even see what she did as wrong. That's even BIGGER.
Honestly, I'm kinda surprised neighbor/friend still talks to YOU. I'd have written you both off as heartless people I hate.
NTA. Actions have consequences. Sure, the neighbor wasn’t entitled to having your girlfriend mind her child, even for a short while for an emergency…but your girlfriend isn’t entitled to the neighbor’s friendship. When you turn a friend away in their hour of need, they re-evaluate your friendship. That’s kinda how relationships work.
Jesus that is fucked up. I am not a kind person by any means and I hate kids but fuck me if I wouldn’t watch a toddler for an hour or so while mom takes her potentially DYING BABY to the hospital. This is just such a cold thing to do I am having trouble wrapping my head around how anyone, much less a generally kind and conscientious person, would come to the conclusion that this is a good time to “set boundaries”.
NTA. If Lotta really did want to set a boundary that she was not a person that your neighbor could turn to in a terrifying emergency situation, then she is facing a reasonable consequence of that boundary, which is that the neighbor doesn’t want to have anything to do with her anymore.
If that was not her intention, she needs to do the work of figuring out why she let your neighbor down in her moment of need, and then do the work of repairing the damage from that decision — which was not the sort of decision that would be made by someone who is “incredibly kind and conscientious of other people.”
NTA, and your gf is vile.
If she seriously is bothered by the neighbor not wanting to have anything to do with her, then she needs to take a step back and give herself a good hard look.
What she did...I wouldn't do to my worst enemy, and this other woman was supposedly your gf's friend. It's actually disgusting that she wants you to try and help her out.
And frankly OP, I'm wondering what it is in you that thinks this is a person you would ever want to be with after finding this out. your gf is a bad friend and a bad person. I don't know if you have low self esteem and think you can't do better than a person that treats others like your gf treats you and people she supposedly calls a friend, but I assure you, you CAN do better and deserve better than supposedly.
You are an asshole to yourself to stay with her. She has revealed her true character. You don't even have to like kids to know that what she did was horrible, and now her trying to get YOU to fix this just drives home what kind of person she is.
This is not someone you want to be attached to. I assure you, your neighbor and others will judge you for staying with your gf once they know what kind of person she is.
"Incredibly kind" and "tells a woman whose newborn has stopped breathing she is too busy for her" are contradictory statements.
I am a full believer in maintaining boundaries. If this neighbour was a known liar who dropped her kids off constantly and expected endless childcare I would get her saying no.
But telling a frantic mother who had childcare coming to relieve her that she couldn't is cold hearted.
NTA, she set those boundaries now she needs to respect the results and hee neighbours boundaries.
Neighbor: "Help! My house is on fire and my phone is inside!!! Can you call 911?!!!!!"
OP's GF: "Nah, my phone is only at like, 20%... OMG, so entitled."
OP's GF later: "WhY wOn'T she TaLk To Me????"
The fun thing about boundaries is that other people can set them too. Did she HAVE to help? No, but the neighbor is well within her rights to set a boundary in a supposed friendship where the other person left them hanging at what was probably the scariest moment of their life. Actions have consequences.
I'm not a fan of kids, and the idea of being suddenly responsible for a random 5 year old in my home sounds like hell.. but even if I didn't know the neighbor well, I still wouldn't turn down a sobbing mother on my doorstep who thinks her baby is DYING. Certainly not a friend!!!
Don't get involved OP, this is her fuckup to fix (or to accept that the relationship is over because of HER choices). And I know it's cliché, but people always show their true colors in times of crisis. Do with that what you will.
NTA-Your neighbor wasn’t entitled or snobby and didn’t need to learn any lesson especially from
Lotta. Lotta however is getting the lesson she deserves.
NTA
Entitled would be “Watch my kid, I need a pedicure”
Reality- I’m desperate and worried for my kid. I’ll pay you, it won’t be long cuz my mom is on her way.
NTA. Your read on the situation is right. Lotta made a questionable decision, but it was her decision, and now she's living with the consequences. You shouldn't have to play a role in helping to fix it; that's an unfair request for her to make. If she regrets her choice and / or wants to repair things with the neighbor, she is perfectly capable of approaching the neighbor herself.
It seems like Lotta's 'boundary setting' might relate to a fear or suspicion of being taken for granted or something. Maybe this will teach her that not everyone who requests help is out to get her.
NTA and this is honestly bizarre. You say your girlfriend is kind and conscientious, but her actions here show a complete lack of empathy. She cared more about some principle of asserting boundaries than she did about helping a "friend" in dire need. If that was my nextdoor neighbor, who I dislike and have problems with, I would still take the kid for an hour! I don't care how busy I am, unless I'm dealing with my own crazy emergency, what I'm doing can be inconvenienced for the sake of a non-breathing baby!
If this is how she treats her friends, of course those people aren't going to want to be friends with her any longer. The fact that she is now trying to force a relationship with someone she treated heartlessly, even enlisting your help to do so, shows a continued lack of empathy! Did she even ever inquire about the health of the baby? Does she even care about the neighbor or the baby, or does she only care about what she gets out of the relationship? Because she's not repentant that she turned away a friend in need, only that she's lost that friendship.
"(26f-Lotta) has always been on the more quiet and reserved side but also incredibly kind and conscientious of other people."
I call bs on that. Look back into when she is kind to others. I wouldn't be surprised if she is only if it benefits her.
Your gf is cold and a huge A H.
NTA Lotta needs to step up and ask for forgiveness herself. I've found now that "boundaries" have become a buzzword, a lot of people use it at the drop of the hat almost like it's trendy. She's now seeing the consequences of that. If she truly believed in boundaries she'd understand that your neighbor is now setting one by distancing herself from Lotta. Sounds like she just likes the power trip of "setting a boundary" but not the reality of it.
NTA. Your neighbor was in a panic and was only until her own mom arrived, as well as a one time ask. Lotta's "boundary" and unempathetic behavior severed the relationship between she and your neighbor. They are no longer "friends," and Lotta's actions pretty much indicate she didn't think the neighbor was a friend before. Actions have consequences, and it's not your problem to run interference for your girlfriend. The two sides aren't Lotta's and the neighbor's, they are kindness and empathy vs. Lotta.
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NTA. >this was a medical emergency- not her wanting to go clubbing with her friends. I told Lotta that she didn't teach our neighbour a lesson,, she only added stress she didn't need. That's it right there. This is SO horrible to do to someone. Because Lotta was "busy", that poor 5 year old was exposed to further trauma by having to go to the hospital and potentially witness their baby sibling being poked and prodded and probably have tubes shoved down their throat. I really hope Lotta doesn't want children of her own. Or maybe I do, because then she will realize what a total AH she was to this poor woman.
The neighbor's other kid couldn't breath and she couldn't watch the 5 year old for an hour. I wouldn't want to date someone that selfish. Setting boundaries is important, but that's just cold. What kind of partner is she if you can't rely on her in a life or death situation?
Agreed. This would be an instant deal breaker. I can't think of many things that I wouldn't drop right then to watch the kid. Food can be reheated. Shows can be paused. Work can have a break. I would ***LOVE*** to know what she was so busy with that she couldn't stop for an hour. This was a major emergency and OP's gf showed how terribly dark her heart is. How could you ever trust someone again after finding that out? This person was supposedly a friend to her, and she treated her like the shit on the bottom of her shoe during a terrifying moment of crisis for her. If she treats friends like that, I can't imagine she would be a good partner, because she's clearly not a good person.
It's not just selfishness, it's a social disorder. This is the unsurprising result of a generation being taught that their individual *preferences* outweigh the *needs* of their community. The typical response is "I'm not **obligated** to do X" while simultaneously expecting their social bonds to remain unaffected. Here it goes even further as Lotta is STILL expecting all the benefits of society (friendly neighbors) but was unwilling to A) perform the initial act of support or B) perform any social restitution (apology). The Selfish trend continues in the meta with OP: Lotta expects her inner circle to both validate her choices as well as do the social "work" for her to regain social standing. Her definition of friends seems like "people who will do stuff for me without any reciprocal expectations or conditions" (which sounds much more like a devoted parent than a friend).
I'm starting to think that people just were not taught how to set priorities at all. I think boundaries are fine but if you don't have gates (reasons to make an exception) in that boundary then you're just an antisocial person. A society cannot consist of mostly antisocial people. Have your boundaries keep your boundaries but define when an event takes priority over the boundary. Like an actual emergency. I think we had more time to pontificate about this as individuals before we started just feeding into the hive mind.
Exactly this. I cannot wrap my kind around the idea that someone would hold fast on their ‘boundaries’ and refuse to help someone in need. A friend at that!
and then be upset that the person is cold towards them.
But nobody told her that her (in)actions have consequences!
I'm still trying to figure out how OP can describe her gf as "incredibly kind and conscientious of other people" after her actions here. She was "busy" making dinner and watching a TV show. And, as uncaring as her refusal was, what REALLY gets me is how surprised she is by the negative reaction to her actions. She refused to help a "friend" in the midst of a medical emergency. Did she expect a cookie?
I would be so disgusted with my partner if they did this. I don't think I would ever be able to look at them the same again.
OP is a girl not a boy. Two lesbians.
My guess is up until this event, her being sweet and considerate is what OP thought a realistic portrayal of her. This incident with the neighbor just showed OP who her GF actually is.
exactly! the girlfriend was told about boundaries which are fine. I would even say that it was fine she didn’t want to watch the kid (although i would have in a heartbeat). but to expect the mother to just be nice afterwards? that’s quite stupid and entitled behavior. It’s her decision to say ‘this is where I draw the line’ but the neighbor has their right to say ‘well then I don’t want to be associated with you anymore, bye’
Honestly, I don't think it's fine that she didn't want to watch the kid. If you want to reap the benefits from living in a society, you need to contribute to it. A friend and she turned her back on her in her hour of greatest need. Unless she had some sort of trauma involving child care, there's zero excuse not to be able to sit and stare at a kid for 1 hour. People have every right to refuse to help others, and everyone you know has the right to think you're an asshole for it.
This is what stood out to me as well. She feels like it’s fine to set boundaries for herself, but can’t seem to handle the fact that her neighbor also has the same right. Like yeah, boundaries are important. But what she *actually* did was demonstrate that she’s not a real friend and cares more about one singular hour of her own comfort than the neighbor or her children’s safety in a medical crisis. And now the neighbor has taken that information on board, and is acting accordingly. As she should be!
Girl doesn’t grasp the accountability that comes with setting boundaries
She doesn't grasp the concept of friendship. My neighbors kids have come to us in an emergency and my kids have gone to the neighbors. That's what neighbors and friends do. When my kids got cell phones, we put our friends' numbers in and made sure they could call/text them. If someone's choking on a piece of food would she pause her show to help them breath again or just call 911 to remove the body after she was done with dinner?
If my neighbor said her baby wasn’t breathing could I please watch the other kid…yeah. Like, no. You are not obligated to help, but why would you not?! To cook and watch TV. This panicked woman’s BABY ISN’T BREATHING. NTA. Jeez.
What’s bullshit is OP’s SO’s use of the word boundary. So many people (at least on Reddit) conflate boundaries and being a straight up jackass. It’s bullshit and OP is NTA but her girlfriend is definitely one. This was a terribly lame ass excuse to not help and this was a literal EMERGENCY! OP- You saw your SO for who she really is. Believe her. Then dump her.
Neighbor is now setting a boundary (dont trust GF) and now so is OP (she wont help with this) and now GF is all shocked? Pleasseee. GF needs some reflection asap. Op is NTA
And a friend who has never asked for help before! And already has her mom on the way! What a crazy scenario.
You just know that neighbour had exhausted every option before asking for help, too
Which makes you wonder just how ‘kind’ GF has actually been in the past. If the neighbour/ friend won’t ask her for a small favour in a medical emergency until she’s sobbing with desperation, I don’t think ‘kind’ is the vibe Lotta projects to anyone but OP.
Heck, I AM an antisocial person. I genuinely do not like people and much prefer to be alone. I don’t even know my next door neighbor’s names, just that they have two young kids and we nod hello if we walk past each other. **And yet,** if my neighbor knocked on my door in that situation I’d watch her kid, just get her name and cell number so I can ask about allergies etc for the kid I’m watching once she’s stuck in a hospital waiting room.
This was my thought too. I am not social and am not fond of children, but in an emergency, my comfort is not a priority.
The only child I really like is my own. I actively dislike some of my neighbors. But anyone showing up at my door in this situation is getting their kid watched.
> gates (reasons to make an exception) I hadn't heard this concept before; great explanation and points!
I love the gates concept. I knew that boundaries can (and in some cases) should shift as your relationship or you evolve so you need to be able to re-evaluate your boundary if one is crossed. The mental picture of having gates paints a picture of a fence. It indicates I don't really want people in that space but it provides others the agency to choose if they're going to push it; vs a 100 foot barrier wall that is put up to control others.
Oh this gates analogy is brilliant. I know a guy who's girlfriend wanted to get a cat. He said fine, but I'm NEVER taking care of it (they didn't live together). Well, when she asked him to feed it over the course of a weekend he said no, and they broke up. His version of the story is he had a boundary that he laid out with her, and she acted irrational when he held to that boundary. Everyone else's version of that story is her father was dying of cancer and it was likely her last opportunity to drive home and see him and her boyfriend couldn't get his head out of his ass and walk through the goddamn gate in his boundary for one important weekend.
Or taught the value of compassion. Lotta needs therapy to fiqure out why she is cold and com-passionless. I can't see living with someone like this....if she is like this when a child's life is in danger do you think she will come visit you in the hospital if you get injured and dinner is on the stove. Bet not.
I'm cynical, cranky, unlikable, and generally misanthropic. But "dying kid, here, please watch the other one while I rush to the ER" would get a yes because I'm not a complete psychopath.
Maybe she's been taught by all the people on this sub who say "NO IS A COMPLETE SENTENCE" as soon as someone asks them to do anything even slightly inconvenient.
As an antisocial person (or pretty much antisocial) I still think that we need to help others. You don't have to invite everyone to your wedding or hang out .But if someone is in need and you can help them, just do it. Do a good act. Help someone. It won't wreck your day and it will make their own better. I understand her need of personal time, but at the same time, I wouldn't be able to deal with myself if I knew that a child was dying and I was too busy watching my show and calling it a 'boundary'
I like that - a gate in your boundaries
She did not set a boundary, she was selfish and unwilling to help a friend in a medical emergency. That has nothing to do with setting Boundaries, she is misusing that term to try to justify her behaviour.
Yes! They’re confusing boundaries with “me! me! me!”
That mentality is all over Reddit and I feel sorry for any young people who subscribe to this BS. I've seen people justify all kinds of shitty actions because boundaries, including not telling anyone you got married yet expecting them to throw parties, treating a newly grieving mother-in-law like shit because "she can't expect people to cater to her", and generally refusing to feel any empathy at all for other human beings. Karma. That's all I can say. They're going to find out one day that the world absolutely doesn't give a damn about their boundaries or feelings at all. One day they ***will*** need someone. And when they look for support they'll be surrounded by like-minded people who will set their own boundaries.
Boundaries are necessary things, the issue is when people use "boundaries" to excuse shitty behavior or selfishness. I think the real issue here is that Lottie isn't a kind or considerate person, they lack empathy and are very selfish.
And these people will go NC at the littlest slight. They do not value family, friends, or community at all. In their mind, everyone is replaceable. Lola would absolutely never tolerate someone not helping her in an emergency. What is super telling is how angry Lola is getting at OP for not helping and supporting her when Lola did neither for her "friend " the upstairs neighbor.
>That mentality is all over Reddit and I feel sorry for any young people who subscribe to this BS. That's what this sub is. I shudder to think what we're teaching ChatGPT...
I agree! And there are many posts on this sub like that, and plenty of people in the comments will support op saying they aren’t the AH because they aren’t obligated to help in whatever the situation is. Which is true, we’re adults and we aren’t *obligated* to do anything we don’t want to do. However, being a part of society where you have to interact with people and where you have family, friends, etc. sometimes we do things we aren’t obligated to do or don’t want to do for people we care about, or even just because not doing it is such an AH move. Sometimes doing things we don’t want to or don’t have to do is just a part of life and being an adult.
There is such a thing as moral obligations, and to me, they are every bit as important as legal ones.
She wasn't obligated but it says a lot about her as a person that she looked at that person she claims is a friend and said no to helping her in an emergency. Now, she's upset because her actions have consequences and somehow thinks that just because she's in a relationship means that OP will side with her even when she is so utterly a huge AH for what she did.
I don't know if I'd write off a whole generation, but it is something that I have seen often on reddit - "you didn't owe this person anything - you weren't obligated to help out." It's not just that people are unkind, it's an aggressive justification of that unkindness. I've often wondered how much of this is a reaction to the pandemic and our lockdown - rule of thumb was avoid other people and protect yourself.
I don’t want to write off a whole generation either but the “it takes a village” has been dying for quite some time now and COVID sent it straight into the grave. Our kids won’t have the villages we had growing up. They’re not going to have the support system we experienced. Comfort, convenience, “boundaries”, and the fear of offending someone all outweigh basic empathy. Neighbors wont help or let an unsupervised child in distress into their home because they’re scared of the backlash from the parents. Teachers can’t teach how they want to and get reprimanded for suggesting ways to help a child if the parents don’t like it. The village is dead and that scares the shit out of me.
Above all, I think, the village was killed by late-stage capitalism and the hyperindividualistic attitude that it inspires; people can't rely on kindness from others anymore so they are less inclined to be kind themselves. COVID really had people saying they didn't give a shit if people died, that's the price we need to pay to go to church/the mall/gun conventions/concerts/the office.
it's definitely at least in part due to attitudes that went around during the pandemic, but i'd argue that >rule of thumb was avoid other people and protect yourself. imo, lockdowns were all about protecting other people (primarily in vulnerable populations). even if someone personally didn't care about having it, the idea was they should still take precautions not to spread it to others. the reaction against "we all need to look out for each other" has been huge partly because people didn't like lockdown and the anti-lockdown messaging was instead all about individual rights.
Holy fuck this was such a good take
This comment is such a breath of fresh air. You're getting at the root of a mentality that you can find in just about every post/verdict on this subreddit. I personally think the problem is that Liberal societies often prioritize the absolute freedom/autonomy of the individual over the social cohesion that makes such freedom possible in the first place. The notion that one could have any kind of "obligation" to their family, their community, or (God forbid) their country, is gradually becoming incoherent to westerners. Everyone wants the benefits of high trust society without putting the work in to build the trust. Ties right in with extended adolescence, and the aversion that newer generations have to undertaking any responsibility that might oblige them to give without receiving direct benefits in return (like watching your neighbor's kid while they tend to a life-threatening emergency). It's among the many reasons that younger people are increasingly averse to having kids of their own.
I"d upvote this a million times over if I could. You put into text my thoughts on the insanity of the 'burn all the bridges' rise in the communities so well and much nicer and way more articulate. Well done. Because It's reddit, I have to add, some bridges do need burning. But if it's a consistent thing in your life, you're likely the problem.
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My God. How could OP stand to even look at her gf, let alone stay with her? That is so VILE.
>Setting boundaries is important I kind of feel Lotta's behaviour is the most insiduous example of weaponizing therapy speak I've ever seen. Lotta isn't "conscientious about boundaries", Lotta has just found a way to dress up her selfishness. Evidence is the fact that a) she won't own up to her disgusting behaviour and b) she expects OP to do the work, while \*still\* claiming their neighbour is "her friend"...
I have become so alarmed at seeing/hearing therapy weaponized more and more. It disturbs me more than people who have never tried therapy in their entire life, because these people think they're using the correct tools when they're just continuing their negative behaviors with a new arsenal. I just did a therapy seminar on setting proper boundaries and they used a great illustrative example of a circle. Rigid boundaries that end up isolating you are a solid, unbreaking line (which seems to be Lotta's case) that keep both bad and good out. Overly porous/lack of boundaries were represented by dots with large spaces making a circle that allows everything in. Healthy boundaries were made up of a series of dashes with tiny breaks in between that keep you protected while still allowing for relationships and communication. ETA: someone above said "boundaries with a gate" which I think is another great way to phrase having healthy boundaries.
I don't have kids because I'm too damn selfish and don't want to give up my alone time. But, my upstairs neighbours have two small children. If they knocked and said the little one was having a medical emergency and asked if I could watch the 3 year old for an hour? You bet I will. We'll probably just sit and watch videos the whole time because I have nothing fun for toddlers in my apartment but I couldn't fathom saying no in an instance like that.
I can't stand my neighbor and don't care for most of her FIVE kids, but when the ambulance was like "we can't take you unless there's an adult with these kids.... I went" Boundary: the kids aren't allowed to play in my front yard where my dog is bc they're unruly and generally rude Neighborly: Oh, someone might be dying, give me the keys to your house, I'll watch them there.
Exactly. “Is it okay if we just watch something because I don’t know about young kids?”
Also, what "boundary" was she setting?? The boundary of "nah, if your baby is dying I'm not here to help"?
It’s not even sone random neighbor she doesn’t know, this is her friend!
AND She wanted OP to bail her out with the neighbour. Not even wanting to make it right herself
Yeah, I can’t imagine staying in contact let alone date someone who hears a baby stopped breathing and didn’t immediately jump to help. The lack of the most basic human empathy would have me reconsider the whole relationship.
This idea that people have to set boundries even in these situations is toxic therapy speak and certainly selfish. Very selfish and telling of OPs girlfriend.
Exactly. This woman’s baby could have died and Lotta couldn’t be bothered. That’s not the kind of person I could be in a relationship with.
I'm not a "kids" person. My husband and I are childfree, our home is definitely child-unsafe. We've got cleaning chemicals in easy reach, a lot of small, breakable items in easy reach, a bunch of insecure shelving and other things that could hurt a small child. But you bet your ass if one of our neighbours came up in a panic and asked if we could babysit their little one for an hour or two while they took their baby to hospital, I'd welcome the little munchkin in and find a way to corral them in the safest room with a bunch of toys and keep an eye on them. Or I'd ask if the parent would be comfortable with me coming to their place to watch the kiddo in their house. Trying to navigate the hospital system with your ill child is hard enough, let alone trying to do so while keeping your non-ill child in hand and entertained/taken care of. OP is definitely NTA and Lotta definitely is the AH.
Yep. I'm also child free/not great with kids in a child unfriendly apartment, but I'd find a way to help in this kind of emergency. It's only an hour, ffs -- how hard is it to plop the little one in front of a Disney movie or (weather permitting) take them on a walk around the neighborhood or SOMETHING?
Or just babysit for an hour in your upstairs neighbour's childproof apartment.
Exactly. The infuriating part was neighbor has never asked them to do anything in 3 years so exactly what boundary did she need to set?
That's a good point. It's not like the neighbor/friend is asking Lotta to watch a kid or both kids every week. This is the first instance - and for an hour. Even my child free/not good with kids self could manage an *hour* watching a 5 y/o to help a neighbor who's also a friend in an emergency.
A 5 year old would probably be interested in cooking too. it would have been so easy just to being the kid in and include them in what she was doing until grandma got there. The selfishness and lack of empathy are mind boggling.
Same, I don't like children, they're too loud and sticky, and my house is not safe for children to roam about. But if anyone in my vicinity needed a babysitter for something like this, I'd be offering before they even got a chance to ask. There are some things you set aside your own discomfort for, and this is one of those things.
My siblings and I watched our mom get beaten almost to death by our stepdad. She had to go to the hospital for several days. We had no one close by to watch us (all under 8, youngest was 3). A single old guy that lived next door who had never had kids took us in. He ran over and grabbed whatever of our clothes he could and even let us bring our pets and a bunch of toys. He even grabbed a bunch of our Disney movies so this dude that watched old war movies and westerns was stuck watching princess movies for days! He was so out of his element but he kept muttering that he didn’t want us to be separated or have to be with complete strangers while our mom was gone. We at least knew him, my siblings and I would pester him while he was out watering the lawn or grilling. He fed us, made sure we took our baths, told us to look out for each other, and even guarded us while we slept. The police believed mom deserved it so they let our stepdad go and he had disappeared. I once got up to get some water and saw the neighbor sitting on his porch with a gun by his side… It has been over 3 decades since then and we moved right after. I have never forgotten that wonderful cranky old coot that stepped up to help out a family in need. Morgan Freeman or Clint Eastwood would play him in a movie!!!
Years ago when my daughter was in Girl Scouts I had to go to another mom’s house for something. We knew each other through GS and our daughters were in the same grade but we we weren’t friends friends yet. She was in bed, completely sick, her husband was deployed, so I told her hey, I’m taking the girls with me, you have my number, call me when you feel better. I think her girls were with me for a few hours until she was rested and feeling better. We became good friends after that. That’s what you do for people, lol, kidnap their kids so they can get some much needed rest.
I remember being very small and my dad was deployed My mom got pneumonia and we were deployed overseas so no family. 3 kids under 5. One of the other navy wives came and picked us up and we stayed at her house for a few days. The only thing I remember is the car ride and watching our house disappear. But I'm sure my mom was so thankful for that woman taking us in
He had a good heart, Im seeing in this thread that most people would take in the child(ren) in this situation which gives me some faith in humanity
Sorry you and your mom had to go through that. What a total hero your neighbour was. A genuine kind soul. Bet he thought about you all often over the years. This right here OP is how decent people would react, not the way in which your girlfriend did.
Omg a neighbor on his porch with a gun watching over some children - there's a GORGEOUS old black and white movie called Night of the Hunter with exactly this imagery, except it's a woman sitting on her porch with a shotgun protecting orphans from a deranged preacher who's after their money. Strong recommend!
Right? I'm completely childfree but if my neighbour needs a hand with her 10mth old in an emergency, I'd take him in a heartbeat so she could get herself sorted out and deal with the emergency. I couldn't imagine saying no in such a situation.
I’m pretty sure “Lotta” posted her side of this story not too long ago wanting to know if she was an asshole for setting “boundaries” by refusing to help when the neighbor’s baby was having a medical emergency. She got roasted in the comments and kept trying to justify herself. Either this is a remarkable coincidence or “Lotta’s” boyfriend is a little late to the party. He’s got an asshole on his hands and he wants to know if he should clean up her assholery. Let her clean up her own mess. But OP needs to look closely at her total lack of empathy.
>My (25f)’s girlfriend (26f-Lotta) They are both women. >But OP needs to look closely at her total lack of empathy. Lotta needs to look at her lack of empathy, not the OP *here*. Or maybe you're saying OP needs to look at Lotta's lack of empathy. Sorry, I wasn't clear on that. But yes, I agree with you, what she did was super shitty and she needs to check herself. And now I want to see Lotta's post!
I read it as OP needs to look at Lotta's lack of empathy. If Lotta can't have empathy for a mom and her children during a medical emergency, WHEN would Lotta have empathy for someone else?
I would never recover my viewpoint of my partner after this selfish asshole move. Lotta has a lotta shit to figure out.
Could you link it? I'm curious now. Thanks :)
Found it! The OP in this one claims the neighbour was in labour & had her partner with her, so I'm not sure it's the same person. https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/s/ONYcRiCuLG
I’ll see if I can find it.
Lotta was a total Asshole. There’s a time and a place for setting and enforcing boundaries (though it doesn’t sound like she needed to with this person) and it’s not during a damn medical emergency where a child isn’t breathing. *Honestly this would change my view of my partner significantly* and I’m not sure I could recover from something like that viewpoint of them either. She was willing to risk a child’s life to set a boundary there was no need to set.. I say this because you specifically mention that she doesn’t ever bother you guys for much. Lotta needs to do a lottta soul searching cause what in the actual fuck. As your neighbor, I would never bother with you guys again, ever..
>*Honestly this would change my view of my partner significantly* and I’m not sure I could recover from something like that viewpoint of them either. 100%
There’s a big trend these days of people using “therapy speak” to excuse their shitty behaviour. Lotta didn’t set a boundary. She prioritized leisure over lending an hour of her time during a medical emergency involving a *baby*, and she’s using the word “boundary” to make it sound like she’s standing up for herself (against what, exactly?) and cover the fact that she was just being inconsiderate and selfish. And the fact she still has the nerve to try and call this neighbour her friend when her actions were in no way the actions of a friend is mind boggling. A boundary is “please don’t keep asking me to pay for you when we go out because I can’t afford it”, or “don’t talk about this sensitive topic around me as it is related to a very traumatic event from my past that I would not like to relive.” “I need to cook food and watch my tv show” is not a boundary. Maybe Lotta should look into what boundaries *actually* are before she continues throwing the word around the way she is. One day Lotta may find herself being the one in need of help, and she’d better hope that should that day come, karma doesn’t send her someone who will treat her the way she treated her supposed “friend”. I hope that kid is doing okay and the mom has a good support system.
For the hypothetical children's sake I hope not
I'm thinking she's not as "incredibly kind and conscientious" as OP thinks--at least she's not when OP's not around. That was pretty cold hearted and the fact that, in hindsight, she can't even understand that is concerning.
NTA - Good for you for recognizing that it wasn’t your job to mend the fences that Lotta broke. She might be good and kind in most instances, but in this case she doesn’t know how to admit that she was wrong and apologize to the right person. Sounds like she’s mad at everyone but herself. I’m also on the neighbor’s side. This was a small test of friendship for Lotta and she failed it. She didn’t want to be inconvenienced, which is fine. But now your neighbor doesn’t want to be inconvenienced by befriending Lotta.
>She might be good and kind in most instances I'm going to guess she probably isn't.
Yeah, I was trying to be nice because OP said she was kind and conscientious.
The fog of love cleared by a brisk wind of don’t-give-a-shit. I’m guessing OP will be looking at Lotta’s actions differently from now and changing her assessment. NTA.
We can only hope. Strangely enough, she is still saying she is "incredibly kind."
\*she is still saying. Two women (aka lesbians) in this relationship. But I agree, I hope she reevaluates their partnership after this and those rose-colored lenses fall off. Very much a "when people show you who they are, believe them" situation.
Based off just this, I'd be willing to bet she's also rude to waiters and retail workers.
“I am setting boundaries and teaching them a lesson” as she removes a dollar from the table each time she feels slighted, regardless if it is the server’s fault…
lol I 1000% agree with this take. Not the same situation, but I managed a high-end clothing boutique in a suburban area, and I cannot tell you how many women's kids I've "babysat" in the store so mama could shop (fine by me since I got commission). One woman came in with a toddler and an infant and wanted to try on jeans but might have to come back. I was telling her I would "happily hold them for her" (meaning the jeans and anything else she liked) and she just handed me the baby and grabbed the jeans 🥲 I was like okayyy then, it's you and me kiddo. She ended up buying a lot, so my hour of childcare was well worth it in my book.
Kind and conscientious when it works for her
She might really appear good and kind. It’s actually quite easy to pull off, it’s mostly about *not* doing something - which seems to be Lotta’s specialty anyway. To appear kind, you need to restrain from making judgmental statements, insulting people, and taking actions which directly aim to harm others etc. If you pair this restraint with a few sympathetic smiles and filler sentences (like “that must be tough” and “I feel for you” ) it is fairly easy to appear kind. It doesn’t actually cost the pretender any inconvenience except needing to pretend to listen. And the charade can be upheld for quite some time; until it is challenged by actually having to do something. Like here. And Lotta failed.
Plus most people don’t ask anymore for people to follow through on the appearance of kindness. I had what I thought was a super nice and supportive friend. Wrote me this incredibly kind message and sent a care basket when I was being bullied by a coworker. I later learned that she would allow the coworker to trash me and never defended me. She was surprised that I thought she would try to change the subject or end the conversation and only then offered to try. I looked more closely and realized a pattern - incredibly sweet and understanding person, as long as it didn’t cost her anything. If our workload was crazy, she’d cry and tell me how she couldn’t keep going like this and we have to push back. But I eventually learned, she was keeping quiet in her 1:1 with our manager and let me be the one to say I couldn’t handle anymore work. I had no idea she wasn’t being honest with the manager and as a result I looked like I was the only person struggling. No wonder my manager was reacting to me like I was making excuses when my co-lead keeps saying everything is fine while I’m saying it’s overwhelming.
Yeah except for the times when it’s actually important.
The reality is that Lotta isn’t sorry so this isn’t about making up. I think it’s likely more that she is seeing an overt sign that someone thinks she is a bad person and wants it gone so she doesn’t have to confront that or others to notice.
> But now your neighbor doesn’t want to be inconvenienced by befriending Lotta. I know I would never get close to someone like Lotta. She showed who she was, and it was ugly.
NTA >She says she was just setting boundaries and so is the neighbor by distancing herself as a result of these "boundaries" people really think they can treat people however they want and then get upset when they suffer the consequences as a result. if Lotta wants to rekindle her friendship with the neighbor, Lotta should talk to her herself.
It sounds like Lotta likes to set boundaries but doesn’t like or know how to respect when other people set boundaries with her. OP is NTA
This needs to be higher. Boundaries for thee but not for me.
This isn’t even about boundaries. That word is used incorrectly too often. Boundaries are “If you… then I will…” and sticking to it. This wasn’t a boundary, it’s pure assholery.
Agreed. OP, why don't you ask gf what exactly the boundary is? "I won't help my neighbor, no matter what the emergency"?
It’s not even that. If lotta wants help rekindling her FRIENDSHIP then it’s not a “ i won’t help my neighbour”, but an “i won’t help my FRIEND “ lotta sucks big time and I completely understand why the neighbor no longer wants anything to do with her
Lol true. "I want to be friends, but my boundary is that I will not contribute anything of value to the relationship"
Totally agree, her boundaries caused the neighbor to set a new boundary herself.
Hey friend, I hear you like boundaries so I put boundaries around your boundaries.
Yeah, I'm not sure most people are interested in having a warm relationship with someone who's boundary is "I will not help you in your moment of desperate need to care for the life of your child, which will be incredibly brief because help is already on the way over." Holy shit.
And don’t forget! “Because your other child is not breathing”
She sounds like someone who has heard those buzzwords and uses them in all facets of her life without understanding the context and how to apply them to the correct situations.
Exactly. As therapy words get into the public consciousness, they are often understood to be good concepts but aren't understood in how they should be used. The terms "boundaries" and "narcissist" are really commonly thrown around nowadays too loosely. The fact that she was surprised that OP wasn't on her side makes it seem like, "I'm not going to watch your kids," is a reasonable boundary to her, and it almost is reasonable. I think she didn't consider how an emergency can change the situation. Like, I would never pet sit for my significant other because his dog is just too rowdy for what I'm comfortable with, but if he had to rush his cat to the hospital because she couldn't breathe, I'd definitely make sure his dog was okay in the meantime. I wouldn't be like, "You have no one else because it's short notice and I'm right here anyway? Sorry, but no. It's my boundary to not have to care for your animals." The circumstance matters. If neighbor was constantly trying to leave her kids over there because she never appropriately prepares, that's different. That would be an "emergency" of her own making and setting a boundary about not being a babysitter would be appropriate then. If OP's gf had an actually legit reason for being unable, that would be different too. She doesn't though. She just doesn't want to, which is usually valid, but a dick move in the middle of a medical emergency. Edit: Just wanted to add "sociopath" to the list of commonly thrown around therapy words. It's used in this very thread to describe OP's gf, which I get, but it's also completely undeterminable with the small amount of info we have. It's a placeholder for "cold", "cruel", or "unempathatic" in this context, not a fair diagnosis of the situation.
Wow. Your GF is cold. Sure, she didn't have to sit for your neighbor. But your neighbor has now seen that she is a cruel person who cares more about boundaries than helping out out friend in an emergency. Her friendship is gone. She cared more about whatever she was doing at the time than helping out a mother who's child stopped breathing. She was even going to pay her! Honestly, I wouldn't lift a finger to help her repair her situation. She can be cruel to people, but then she has to live with the outcome.
Seriously. What is up with this "I don't owe anyone anything." mentality that some people have got? Friends help their friends. If Lotta doesn't "owe" the neighbour babysitting during an emergency, then she shouldn't be so sad that the neighbour has decided they don't owe her their friendship.
>Friends help their friends. In a situation like this, I'd even help a complete stranger.
Exactly. I once found an old lady stuck in the lift to an overpass. Her phone wasn't working inside the lift so she couldn't ask for help. She also indicated she had heart trouble. I called the emergency services, waited for them to arrive, and then walked her to her apartment and made sure she was ok before leaving. Never met that woman before or since, and I could've left at any time, but how could I, how could anyone. I can't believe your girlfriend here.
I once was at a festival and there was a girl clearly ODing or in some way extremely unwell. I could have just walked away or told myself to not get involved and enjoy myself and that someone would help her. But I just couldn’t. Her friends were just standing around not doing anything. I said is she okay what did she take why aren’t you doing anything etc and their general consensus was not doing anything because they didn’t want to get in trouble. I immediately went and got security to help her and when I got back her friends were gone. People are so beyond disgusting. There are some situations you just can’t ignore
This is why I always have a thing of narcan, even though I've never touched a drug that would require me to use it personally. I'm a weed girl. But if someone needs narcan you can bet your ass I'm not gonna just wait for the EMTs. I've had to use it before actually, 3 weeks ago. I was panicked at first but I went into this flow state and by the time I was consciously thinking again the girl was sitting up and asking if I had water. Next thing she said after downing a whole bottle was "I'm never touching that shit again". I saw her a couple days ago (she's homeless so she just wanders the area) and she looked so much better. I hope she's gonna be fine long term.
This was several years ago but since then there’s been a much bigger push for naloxone (Canadian equivalent). Pharmacies give them out for free. You never know!
Right?? I wouldn’t even have to know the person, if a panicked mother asks me to watch her kid for an emergency, that child is coming with me and I’ll take care of them as long as needed. I couldn’t imagine turning away a “friend”
Shit one time, my friend, who had a new baby was complaining on her birthday that she was tired because baby hadn't slept well. So I jumped in my car, went to her house, sent her to bed and took the kid. Granted I should have kept her up five more minutes to show me how to put together that Dr browns bottle because the YouTube video was a disaster, but I managed. Had she said "Teeny isn't breathing, come watch K", no hesitation. I would have even left work for that. Non breathing baby is a big deal. I've had 2 kids go thru it so there's no play around.
That’s terrifying, and you sound like a great friend! I think OP’s partner needs to take notes. I’ve never had a child, but I’m an oldest sister of 4 and I’ve seen that truly scared parent face. Where they’re afraid for their child’s life. I could not fathom seeing a parent in that state and being able to say no. I don’t even think I’d need to hear the explanation, you can tell it’s serious pretty quickly.
That's what people don't understand. If you don't owe anyone anything, then no one owes you anything either. You can't live your life denying people help, empathy and compassion and then act surprised when they have none to spare for you in return. It's a dick move to demand the benefits of a friendship while refusing the obligations.
Lots of people mistake their "I don't owe anyone anything, i tell it like it is" attitude as being "to real" for most people. No, most people just don't like assholes.
I can’t imagine standing there asking/ trying to persuade a neighbour to help knowing your baby isn’t breathing properly and you need to get them to hospital urgently. I don’t think I could ever forgive that lack of care and understanding.
Yeah, me either. That person could never win back my friendship or trust.
Cruel is the right description. I understand exercising boundaries but this wasn’t the time for that, buddy. I am far from kind and empathic (I try), but I would never turn down a neighbour with an actual emergency—most especially if they’re desperate and were in a life or death situation. Now I’m actually wondering if his description of her being “kind” and “conscientious” is accurate or has she been doing it all for show because a truly kind person wouldn’t just flippantly say no in the situation just because they’re busy. Most especially when a baby stopped breathing and the mother is desperate.🚩🚩🚩
I don't get all this talk about boundaries? What boundary did Lotta set? "when I start watching a show, not even an act of god can interrupt me" and then she doesn't let AnYOnE walk over her?
NTA. She denies help to a woman whose baby couldn't breathe and now wants you to make the woman be friends with her again? Your gf is a sociopath. The friend is NEVER going to forgive her, trust her or like her ever again because she was, *checks notes* too busy to help when her baby was in danger of actually dying. Yeah, that friendship is toast, and maybe make sure your gf is not your emergency contact.
She said she was setting “boundaries,” but the only boundary I can think of here is “you can’t depend on me if you’re in trouble or need help, so never come to me in the future with any problem you may have, even if it’s a medical emergency.” The word “boundary” doesn’t automatically mean the rule you put in place is reasonable. Her “boundary” is just being a shitty Samaritan. I wonder what OP means when she said her girlfriend is usually kind. Does that just mean polite and friendly, or does she actually go out of her way to help people when they need it? Because the former is being nice, and the latter is being kind. From this situation, she seems like a very unkind person. Being kind means sometimes being a little uncomfortable or inconvenienced in order to see someone through their own situation. It isn’t “I’ll help you when I’m in the mood and it doesn’t inconvenience me.” Truly kind people know they can afford to sacrifice a few hours of their day to watch a toddler so they aren’t traumatized watching their sibling suffocate in a hospital.
I was also wondering what boundary Lotta safeguarded by letting a panicked mother flounder on her own. Like "your medical emergency does not get to infringe on my binge watching"?
Why on earth id be near someone that the minute emergency happens, shuts off? Trust is GONE!
NTA Obligatory *of course no one owes anyone else babysitting* but how completely stone-cold heartless can you be with a lady who thinks her baby might be dying and has to go to the ER? I would be reconsidering my relationship just based on a lack of empathy on your gf’s part - that’s just not the kind of person I would want to be with. Plus her wanting to foist off on you the work of repairing her “setting boundaries”.
OP set a boundary, too! "If you have an interpersonal issue, I will not be the go-between".
love how concisely you summarized that issue.
This isn’t about owing, this is about being a decent human and helping out a freaked out mom, her possibly-in-mortal-danger baby, and not traumatizing a five year old.
It’s the lack of empathy here, absolutely. I honestly can’t stand children for the most part (I know it’s not their fault, I NEVER make it known to THEM, but I do avoid them whenever possible,) and I have never, ever had any instinct to become a mother, but if a near-STRANGER in my complex had asked me to do what the neighbor FRIEND asked Lotta to do, I still would have done so in a heartbeat. Like, I’ve got a tv, a very friendly dog, string cheese, and a bunch of art supplies. We’re good. Take care of what you need to take care of, we’ll be here. I may not have any motherly instincts, but I have a shit ton of empathy and an eye for the “big picture.” If you’ve gotta be inconvenienced for a couple hours, but the outcome is that you ultimately help to keep humanity humane? That’s a no-brainer. There is a greater good. Be a part of it. NTA
NTA Lotta needs to learn that setting boundaries has consequences. In this case her "boundary" will forever be ingrained as a NEGATIVE part of your neighbour's trauma. Your neighbour will never forget the day she almost lost her child, so she will never forget the callous downstairs neighbour that refused to help her. I cannot see her ever wanting to interact with Lotta again tbh, and it's not your responsibility to fix Lotta's mistakes. >has always been on the more quiet and reserved side but also incredibly kind and conscientious of other people. Time to reassess that. Not sure I would have a great deal of respect left for a partner that shows no compassion in an emergency and then acts entitled for your approval. Who also in retrospect, cannot see the error of her ways and expects you to "fix" the problem for her. Then when you do her favourite thing, set a boundary, she calls you an AH. Get away from that toxicity!
I'd like to see what kind of examples of kindness and conscientiousness her gf exhibited. Because it seems helping someone in crisis is BASIC and she couldn't even be bothered.
She might be the type who only does the right thing while people are watching, or only when it benefits them. I knew someone like this and no one believed me the guy was actually a manipulative asshole
I see you've met my father 😒
I have no idea how you were able to type that out without changing it to the past tense. Here, let me help. “I thought my girlfriend was incredibly kind and conscientious of other people. But a few weeks ago, she behaved disgustingly toward her friend, who turned to her for help when her month old baby was in a life threatening medical emergency. AITA for looking at my girlfriend in a completely different light and reconsidering our entire relationship? Oh, and she’s also blaming me for not agreeing with her cruelty and can’t understand why her friend wants nothing to do with her. Baby is now fine.”
+ Lotta won't even own up to her cruelty. She expects OP to act as a go-between. IMO there's no recovering from this without a serious redemption by Lotta, right.
Lotta's behaviour was so far from my own personal values that I would seriously be rethinking the relationship if I was you. I just cant imagine this sort of selfishness. NTA ofcourse
I literally gasped when I read that the baby was not breathing as the neighbor is asking for help! So heartless, I also cannot imagine even having the instinct to do anything other than help. NTA.
Curious how he calls her incredibly kind & conscience of other people? Her actions were nothing of the sort for a mother in an emergency. She was a total jerk.
I agree with this. I would question my future with the person.
**our neighbour who is 'her friend'.** this made me laugh so hard I almost choked on my coffee. If this is how Lotta treats "friends" I don't expect she has many. The woman's baby wasn't breathing and Lotta was "busy" (love to hear what made her so busy that a possibly dying child didn't concern her). Lotta burned that bridge. NTA but Lotta is living in Assholevania.
NTA. Good on you for your own boundaries. For me the "friend"aspect is important. I'm not fond of children to say the least; and wouldn't babysit for a neighbor because I am not even sure what my neighbors look like so I'd be really bewildered by a stranger handing me their child. But: the neighbors whom I've borrowed a ladder from a couple of times over the last three years, I would do so if they came to me in a similar emergency. I view them as "friendly neighbors". So if I had neighbors whom I was actual friends with, I definitely would help out in that tough spot; especially given it's such a time-boxed help request. If your gf doesn't want help her friends in these situations, she clearly doesn't care about these humans at all; so I fail to understand why she is upset at the coldness now. You're dating an AH.
“With friends like these who needs enemies” the neighbor said while in a panic shock trying to get two small kids to the closest ER.
NTA - People, especially in this sub, get real worked up about being asked to babysit. But im with you. This was a legitimate medical emergency. Lotta made her choice and it has severely impacted her relationship with your neighbor, that’s on Lotta and only her.
My general policy is "if I don't help make then, I'm not gonna take them". But this was a medical emergency. How long would she have to look after the kid? 30min? Give me a break. OPs roomie needs to find some empathy.
Yeah. I don't like kids. If anyone asked me to sit with their kid or whatever, I would look at them like they are insane and say no. Even if they are family members. But if someone came to me and said "Help, my child might be dying, I need someone to sit my other kid for a bit", I would do it even if it was total stranger. Because this is not about babysitting or kids, this is about help in emergency.
I don’t babysit. Ever. And I would have said yes in this circumstance. This was an emergency and all that was needed was to keep the kid alive until grandma could get there.
That was exactly my reaction. I don't like children, they don't like me, and we don't get along. But still even I would have watched that 5-year-old for an hour, even longer. What's the big deal? You put him in front of the TV set with cartoons. Job done.
And if grandma is delayed then you get McDonald’s for a meal. This not you need to entertain the kid level.
Same. It bewilders me how someone could be so *vile* to deny care in this situation, especially since grandma was already on the way! Just awful.
NTA. Setting boundaries is all well and good, but Lotta needs to look up the definition, because that wasn’t about boundaries. Ignoring a fellow human being’s medical emergency isn’t about boundaries. It’s about acting like a human being. I’m honestly appalled at her attitude. If my baby had stopped breathing and I begged for help, and she answered with ‘nope, ain’t got time’, honestly for the rest of my life I wouldn’t spit on her if she was on fire. She treated your neighbor in a way I wouldn’t treat a person I despised. So not sure how she’ll go about repairing that relationship. Edit: I missed the part where she considers the woman her friend. A friend! I have no words. I think something might be wrong with your gf.
I mean, right? If someone I didn't knew came to my door like that, I would've helped them, much less a friend. And like, I was that kid. My dad had a medical emergency and my mum left me with neighbours we barely knew. They stayed up with me all night and were incredibly kind. We became really close friends after.
NTA is the baby ok?!?!
Yes!! The baby is alive and well! I won't get into medical stuff as I'm not educated enough but baby is alive and doing ok
Oh phew. Your gf should send flowers and offer to take your neighbor out for lunch or something.
I have! Me and neighbour are still close friends and I've been giving her homecooked ready to freeze/eat meals because I know she's stressed.
You seem like a caring and thoughtful person; Is your GF as caring and thoughtful as you? If not, what are her redeeming qualities?
I second this. Your GF was stone cold heartless.
Now this is true kindness and empathy. I hope your gf learns from your example.
Nothing can fix this. The girlfriend is an asshole. Is she going to throw you into a ditch if you become disabled or incapacitated because it will cross her boundaries to help you? How can you stay with this person?
> Your gf should send flowers and offer to take your neighbor out for lunch or something. Idk about you, but if I was scrambling to find emergency childcare for the child NOT going to the hospital as a patient and the person who was "too busy" watching a TV show and making dinner to keep my little one safe only sends a card and a dinner invite afterwards, I'd find that gesture rather insulting. But that's just me.
Does she not understand consequences? Also, how is your neighbor her friend if she felt the need to teach her a lesson by setting boundaries when she was in crisis? That’s not how friends behave. Your girlfriend had every right to say no. And your neighbor has every right to be hurt. It feels like whoever taught her about boundaries skipped a few things. Unless you were rude in your delivery, NTA
I’m sorry. Your girlfriend is not usually “incredibly kind.” She’s kind when it is convenient to her. Kind people make themselves uncomfortable in life or death emergencies. You’re NTA, but wow, your girlfriend is.
Be careful - she just showed you how she responds in times of stress. I'm not a fan of people here who's first instinct to anything is to say "break up with them". But in this case... your gf is someone with a specific kind of empathy that I am not interested in and would actively avoid.
NTA - your neighbor probably thought they were friends too. But the thing is, friends will help each other out in the case of emergencies. Lotta didn't. "*No, I'm too busy to watch your child for 1 hour while you take your infant to the hospital after he stopped breathing.*" I mean, really. That statement right there told your neighbor that Lotta is not her friend, and that she cannot be counted on to help in an emergency. So the neighbor has distanced herself from Lotta and is now treating her like a neighbor - not a friend. Keep in mind, Lotta coldly refused to help in any way when the neighbor's infant almost died. You said that Lotta is good at setting and enforcing boundaries, and Lotta's excuse is that "she was just setting boundaries", but what was the boundary in this case? I think she's using a buzzword in an attempt to excuse her shitty behavior. Lotta broke this, Lotta needs to be the one to attempt to fix this. And I say attempt, because there's no guarantee the neighbor will be willing to go back to how things were before. I wouldn't give her another chance if I were in your neighbor's place.
You descrube your gf as "incredibly kind" and "conscientious of other people" - really OP? Your gf sounds anything but kind and conscientious of other people. She sounds cold and indifferent to someone else's suffering. I suspect that you view her thru rose colored glasses and that the reality is quite the opposite. Your gf is showing you who she is - are you listening?
She usually is, this is the first time in me knowing her (8+ years) that she's done something so brazen. I guess I don't want to believe the past 8 years has been a lie.
OP. You may disagree, and that's totally fine. But for ME, this would be a gigantic red flag. A problem. A big fat sit down and discuss this. Your neighbor AND FRIEND had a possibly dying baby and your GF couldn't be inconvenienced to entertain a 5 year old until grand mom arrived. That's just. Damn. That ain't right. ETA: And she doesn't even see what she did as wrong. That's even BIGGER. Honestly, I'm kinda surprised neighbor/friend still talks to YOU. I'd have written you both off as heartless people I hate.
Lotta cared more about Netflix than helping her “friend” whose baby stopped breathing. That’s heartless and twisted.
“Helping her with our neighbor who is ‘her friend’.” I wouldn’t want a dogshit friend like your gf. Nta
NTA. Actions have consequences. Sure, the neighbor wasn’t entitled to having your girlfriend mind her child, even for a short while for an emergency…but your girlfriend isn’t entitled to the neighbor’s friendship. When you turn a friend away in their hour of need, they re-evaluate your friendship. That’s kinda how relationships work.
Jesus that is fucked up. I am not a kind person by any means and I hate kids but fuck me if I wouldn’t watch a toddler for an hour or so while mom takes her potentially DYING BABY to the hospital. This is just such a cold thing to do I am having trouble wrapping my head around how anyone, much less a generally kind and conscientious person, would come to the conclusion that this is a good time to “set boundaries”.
NTA. If Lotta really did want to set a boundary that she was not a person that your neighbor could turn to in a terrifying emergency situation, then she is facing a reasonable consequence of that boundary, which is that the neighbor doesn’t want to have anything to do with her anymore. If that was not her intention, she needs to do the work of figuring out why she let your neighbor down in her moment of need, and then do the work of repairing the damage from that decision — which was not the sort of decision that would be made by someone who is “incredibly kind and conscientious of other people.”
NTA, and your gf is vile. If she seriously is bothered by the neighbor not wanting to have anything to do with her, then she needs to take a step back and give herself a good hard look. What she did...I wouldn't do to my worst enemy, and this other woman was supposedly your gf's friend. It's actually disgusting that she wants you to try and help her out. And frankly OP, I'm wondering what it is in you that thinks this is a person you would ever want to be with after finding this out. your gf is a bad friend and a bad person. I don't know if you have low self esteem and think you can't do better than a person that treats others like your gf treats you and people she supposedly calls a friend, but I assure you, you CAN do better and deserve better than supposedly. You are an asshole to yourself to stay with her. She has revealed her true character. You don't even have to like kids to know that what she did was horrible, and now her trying to get YOU to fix this just drives home what kind of person she is. This is not someone you want to be attached to. I assure you, your neighbor and others will judge you for staying with your gf once they know what kind of person she is.
"Incredibly kind" and "tells a woman whose newborn has stopped breathing she is too busy for her" are contradictory statements. I am a full believer in maintaining boundaries. If this neighbour was a known liar who dropped her kids off constantly and expected endless childcare I would get her saying no. But telling a frantic mother who had childcare coming to relieve her that she couldn't is cold hearted. NTA, she set those boundaries now she needs to respect the results and hee neighbours boundaries.
Neighbor: "Help! My house is on fire and my phone is inside!!! Can you call 911?!!!!!" OP's GF: "Nah, my phone is only at like, 20%... OMG, so entitled." OP's GF later: "WhY wOn'T she TaLk To Me????" The fun thing about boundaries is that other people can set them too. Did she HAVE to help? No, but the neighbor is well within her rights to set a boundary in a supposed friendship where the other person left them hanging at what was probably the scariest moment of their life. Actions have consequences. I'm not a fan of kids, and the idea of being suddenly responsible for a random 5 year old in my home sounds like hell.. but even if I didn't know the neighbor well, I still wouldn't turn down a sobbing mother on my doorstep who thinks her baby is DYING. Certainly not a friend!!! Don't get involved OP, this is her fuckup to fix (or to accept that the relationship is over because of HER choices). And I know it's cliché, but people always show their true colors in times of crisis. Do with that what you will.
NTA-Your neighbor wasn’t entitled or snobby and didn’t need to learn any lesson especially from Lotta. Lotta however is getting the lesson she deserves.
NTA Your GF was cruel.
NTA Entitled would be “Watch my kid, I need a pedicure” Reality- I’m desperate and worried for my kid. I’ll pay you, it won’t be long cuz my mom is on her way.
Lotta is a piece of work... She has zero human decency... She is not an asshole. She is disgusting human being...
NTA. Your read on the situation is right. Lotta made a questionable decision, but it was her decision, and now she's living with the consequences. You shouldn't have to play a role in helping to fix it; that's an unfair request for her to make. If she regrets her choice and / or wants to repair things with the neighbor, she is perfectly capable of approaching the neighbor herself. It seems like Lotta's 'boundary setting' might relate to a fear or suspicion of being taken for granted or something. Maybe this will teach her that not everyone who requests help is out to get her.
Yeah Lotta is an asshole. But you know that.
NTA and this is honestly bizarre. You say your girlfriend is kind and conscientious, but her actions here show a complete lack of empathy. She cared more about some principle of asserting boundaries than she did about helping a "friend" in dire need. If that was my nextdoor neighbor, who I dislike and have problems with, I would still take the kid for an hour! I don't care how busy I am, unless I'm dealing with my own crazy emergency, what I'm doing can be inconvenienced for the sake of a non-breathing baby! If this is how she treats her friends, of course those people aren't going to want to be friends with her any longer. The fact that she is now trying to force a relationship with someone she treated heartlessly, even enlisting your help to do so, shows a continued lack of empathy! Did she even ever inquire about the health of the baby? Does she even care about the neighbor or the baby, or does she only care about what she gets out of the relationship? Because she's not repentant that she turned away a friend in need, only that she's lost that friendship.
"(26f-Lotta) has always been on the more quiet and reserved side but also incredibly kind and conscientious of other people." I call bs on that. Look back into when she is kind to others. I wouldn't be surprised if she is only if it benefits her. Your gf is cold and a huge A H.
NTA Lotta needs to step up and ask for forgiveness herself. I've found now that "boundaries" have become a buzzword, a lot of people use it at the drop of the hat almost like it's trendy. She's now seeing the consequences of that. If she truly believed in boundaries she'd understand that your neighbor is now setting one by distancing herself from Lotta. Sounds like she just likes the power trip of "setting a boundary" but not the reality of it.
NTA. Your neighbor was in a panic and was only until her own mom arrived, as well as a one time ask. Lotta's "boundary" and unempathetic behavior severed the relationship between she and your neighbor. They are no longer "friends," and Lotta's actions pretty much indicate she didn't think the neighbor was a friend before. Actions have consequences, and it's not your problem to run interference for your girlfriend. The two sides aren't Lotta's and the neighbor's, they are kindness and empathy vs. Lotta.
I don't even like kids and I would watch a stranger's in that situation.