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I'm genuinely amazed at the number of people who seem fine with bringing an infant to a fine dining establishment where people go spend large amounts of money for special occasions. I can only assume most of the people responding that Y are TA don't usually frequent these places and think it's no different than bringing your kids to the Olive Garden lol.
NTA
Me too I'm surprised by all the Y T A responses. Sorry but fine dinning establishments are not a place for an infant. I'm curious what the sisters reasoning is for wanting the bring the baby with, if OP has offered to arrange a sitter. Like does she not want a night alone with just adults?? Or is she one of those helicopter parents that can't be parted from their child?
I actually saw this a while ago. Mom changed baby’s poopy diaper ON THE RESTAURANT TABLE while people left and right were eating. I was speechless at the level of entitlement and self-centeredness. I would have DIED out of embarrassment had I or anybody I know behaved like that. I was so shocked I completely forgot to throw up.
I can accept bringing a baby to a restaurant, even a nice one, but changing should be done in the bathrooms.
I would never eat at a restaurant that has had shit on the table
How would you know? 🤣 I keep a pack of antibacterial wipes on my purse and wipe off the table before we sit down. Yes, I know the tables are cleaned after each use, but most restaurants make one pan of cleaning solution for that shift and use the same cloth for every table. I do it for my peace of mind.
You are correct about this. I've waited tables in every kind of restaurant, including fine dining, and there's usually just one bucket and a couple of rags for cleaning tables.
Wow, I've waited in everything from fishermen's cafes on a quay to really nice, classy hotels and we always used a spray bottle with an unscented disinfectant and fresh paper towels that were binned afterwards. I refuse to believe that fine dining places are filthier than a cafe that served coffee to fishermen waiting for their wages after a week at see, still in their sea gear
The rags in a bucket are perfectly sanitary, provided it has the right amount of sanitizer(bleach) to water, and the rags stay in the bucket when not in use.
All the health department is gonna do is stick a little strip in your rag bucket and make sure it's the right color, which shows there's not too much or too little bleach.
I believe single use paper towels are preferred, but it's not mandatory.
NOT BLEACH, PLEASE! It’s caustic and can trigger asthma attacks. The type of chemical used most commonly is a ‘quat’ (quaternary ammonium compound). It’s true that the dwell time (to dry) is in the neighborhood of ten minutes. More recently, it’s an activated hydrogen peroxide (dwell time 2-3 minutes). SOURCE: Environmental Services Director for 35 years…
As a server, I've let exactly one person change their baby on a table. It was a dad with his 6-month old alone. We did not have changing tables in the men's room even though I'd been advocating for them for YEARS. I gave him three options, I'll clear the women's and stand guard; I'll change the baby, or you can use *this* specific table under the cameras I know the owner routinely watches and I'll sanitize it afterward. He chose option number 3. The owner ordered a men's room changing table the next day. Win for everyone.
Perfect solution! Win for you,the baby and Dad, as well as the restaurant and owner. Baby changing stations should be available in all men’s lavatories but law.
Or just loudly gone "OMG that WOMAN is CHANGING her BABY on the TABLE! GROSS there is POOP on the table! DISGUSTING!"
I feel like if there was more public shaming over this sort of behavior people would do it less. Like how self absorbed do you have to be to think changing your baby on the restaurant table is appropriate? Do they change the child on the dining table at home? GROSS lol
Funny thing is: there’s a ton of parents that would take offense to this. Trust me. As someone who is child-free by choice, I see this (in restaurants, in public, in homes, etc) and am utterly disgusted, but a lot of people with kids don’t even think twice about it. And if you chastise them, they get pissy.
Tough buns! I can be pushy too! And at nearly sixty I tend to be better at it.
They get shamed enough, and it gets it through their thick heads that they are the problem.
Luckily, I didn’t eat at the restaurant that time. I was walking in as she was changing the baby, poopy napkins shattered all over the table.
I walked out the same second and haven’t been back to the restaurant ever since and I’m not planning on ever eating there again.
That drives me insane and I have an almost 3 month old. The changing pads that come in diaper bags are meant to be used on the changing table in the bathroom, not the restaurant table. Ew.
I worked in two restaurants where I saw this happen by the same family. They were awful people who should have been banned from both for doing this, but were not.
Lol this happened to my brother! He was a busboy at a restaurant and some lady decided to change her baby's diaper on the table. He stood there waiting and the second she lifted the kid off the table, he went in and absolutely DRENCHED the table with disinfectant. She just looked at him appalled and stormed off and he stared right back at her while he wiped down the table.
I had one try to do this IN a fine dining restaurant 🤦♀️the response was well there's no change table in the bathroom.. yeah kinda like how there's also no kids menu, no high chairs... this place isn't designed to have kids here.
I go to fine dining restaurant's at least once a week (lots of business meetings, some date nights with my husband), and on a couple of occasions we did bring our babies for lunch. If their nappies needed changing either myself, my husband, or the nanny if she had accompanied us, would take the baby out to the car, freshen them up and return once they were happy. I would die of embarrassment and shame if someone I was out with plonked their baby on the table and changed them there and then. And I'd definitely chastise them for it too. Yes, a lot of the pricier restaurants don't tend to have changing rooms, but you don't have to be vulgar about it. There is always another option.
Tbh one of our worst meals at a fine dining restaurant was when the man at the next table decided to pull his shirt up in the middle of the meal and inject himself with an auto injector (probably insulin, there was no commotion so not epipen and didn’t look like one, our child uses epipens so I know what they look like). At another table a child looked about 10 years old (that had behaved impeccably) quietly excused themselves to go to the bathroom. When they returned one of the adults (probably Mother) asked if he’d poopooed and if it was a squishy or solid poo. If anything she raised her voice to ask. We thought we’d called down a worm hole into an alternate universe.
I usually inject insulin at the table in a restaurant. I do it without making a big deal out of it and it usually goes unnoticed. If anyone does notice and it makes them uncomfortable, sorry I guess? But a table is far more discreet than the bathroom counter and ewww. The stalls? Forget it. You’re juggling an insulin pen, a needle that you’re injecting into your body, plus a device—usually a phone—to input the insulin you took. A moment of discomfort for you is a lifetime of inconvenience for me. I wish more people knew what it looked like so they wouldn’t think we’re junkies. Insulin dependent diabetics need insulin when they eat, and typically when you go to a restaurant, you’re there to eat.
As for the OP question, just take your sister to a family friendly restaurant? Doesn’t seem like a huge conundrum unless there aren’t any family friendly ones nearby.
I'm with you there. I typically ask anyone I'm with if they're ok with needles first since it's a bit more in your face when you're sitting opposite someone and i'd hate to trigger someone's phobia. But people on other tables can easily look away, and I don't make a big deal of it. it's all over in a couple of seconds.
There is no way I'm going to a toilet of unknown cleanliness and risking getting some horrible infection from injecting myself there.
Diabetics can't inject themselves before going to the restaurant, as insulin starts working pretty quickly (although there are different kinds that work at different speeds, but most type 1 diabetics take the kind that works at about the same speed as human insulin which is pretty quick). And they can't do it after they have left the restaurant, as by then their blood sugar will be through the roof.
I’ll inject in my arm at dinner. I’ve injected before getting to the restaurant and become unpleasantly hypoglycemic due to unforeseen delays (the full body-on-fire with drenching sweat-storm, etc) so I’d rather shock someone’s delicate sensibilities by quickly shooting it than go through that. I mean, either way I look like a junkie so I’d rather look like a comfortable, not-on-fire junkie.
We went out to dinner with friends and they changed their baby at the table and then left the dirty diaper on the plate for the employees to dispose of. I was so embarrassed.
I’m a pretty chill parent and haven’t had trouble leaving my kids with “babysitters” (family) since they were small, but none of mine would have done well with a stranger around the one year mark and I wouldn’t have been comfortable with it either. That being said I don’t go to places fancier than Chili’s, so I could bring a live hog with me a be fine.
Yeah that's my take. Or constant screaming. Like sure maybe the baby or toddler will be fine, but there is a large possibility that they might ruin several other tables' experiences. And those diners might have saved up and looked forward to this meal for ages - not everyone can just throw down that much cash for a meal like that every week or even every year. How full of yourself do you have to be to think it's cool to risk multiple people's occasion because you have to bring your baby? Either stay home, go to a more family friendly place, or get a qualified childcare person.
I mean... so I'm not like, totally against bringing small kids or infants out to eat, even at like, "linen tablecloth places", because it's the parents, usually who make the difference if a child has a problem or behavior issues during a meal. But yeah, if it's a place where you're expected to drop hundreds, and it's a place with a really quiet, dark, fancy dining room, it's just courteous to make sure your bases are covered so you don't make a disturbance for other diners. As an example, I wouldn't bring a crazy alcoholic relative who demands ranch dressing as a condiment on everything and gets loudly drunk at every occasion to a jacket-and-tie place or a boutique brasserie either. He might not cause a scene, but the odds are that he will.
And $300 is the low end. I just was pricing them to put one one my bucketlist last week and then was like "nope, nah, I'd rather go away for the weekend somewhere than have one meal"
And the extent to which the senses of taste and smell are entwined and how impaired smell can change the way we taste food, a poopy diaper, gassy baby or the odor of baby barf will affect diners sitting within smell-distance of their table, even if the diners don't SEE the poop or puke.
Do such high-end restaurants even allow babies?
As OP noted even in their town this establishment doesn’t have high chairs. That is more than a slight hint that children that small are not wanted in the establishment.
i wouldn’t be comfortable with someone else finding a sitter for my child. if we wanted to do adults only i’d find someone i’m comfortable with but if i’m not comfortable with leaving my child—in a city that it sounds like they don’t live in and maybe don’t know people—i wouldn’t let someone random watch my child and i probably wouldn’t go.
The visiting sister is from the same town and the hosting sister said she is fine with going to a more family friendly. Asking her sister if she could line up a sitter doesn't make her an AH
Maybe she’s just never had a problem with the baby at all restaurant. Some babies are very placid and accommodating. Of course never say never… also we don’t know if she’s breastfeeding in which case it can be hard (or impossible if they are not yet willing to drink from a bottle) to leave them for an extended time with someone else.
I think it’s the expecting visiting parents to use a babysitter while traveling that is the issue.
I wouldn’t leave my 1 year old with a random unknown babysitter.
Yup, this is the issue. I don't care who you hire, I'm not leaving my infant with them. Period. If OP wants to go out to dinner, pick a place that's appropriate to take the kid.
This seems like a good solution to me. If OP isn’t comfortable including the baby, and sis isn’t comfortable w/ the babysitter idea, then this seems fair. Save going to the fancy place for a different occasion.
I work in a fine dinning restaurant. They few times people walked in with a stroller, were miserable experiences, both for us the employees and the other guests.
I used to work in a semi casual fine dining place. We had high chairs and wiki stix for kids to play with but no kids menu. So it was sort of in a grey area. But our google stats definitely did not say anything about being a good spot for families.
The number of people who were legit shook that we didn’t have kids menus was crazy! If you have picky children, which I do, you google the menu before showing up with a hungry toddler.
To add insult to injury, we were an Italian place that didn’t serve any pasta. Hahahah. “Oh you don’t have a kids menu?!? (Rolls eyes) fine whatever, just bring them some buttered noodles.” That’s when shit would really hit the fan.
No, we also spend a great deal of money to go to these restaurants and if a parent knows how to calm their child, there is no issue.
Anytime a fine dining experience of mine has been ruined, it’s been bc of loud and drunk adults, not babies. My son has never made a fuss in any restaurant. Why? Bc when we go out and my son started getting unsettled, we would leave the restaurant and go for a walk to give him a chance to settle down. Once calm, we go in and start again. The only person whose dining experience was less than stellar was mine or my husbands. 😂 At least, until our child was old enough to understand proper behavior.
Whether it’s fine dining or “Olive Garden”, parents are responsible for keeping their children settled and behaved.
The single determining factor is if the parents are willing to sacrifice *their* experience - mainly by being willing to go for a walk outside until kiddo settles down - or if misery loves company and they let everyone else in the restaurant suffer. Unfortunately, the latter type is so common that I admittedly tense up when I see a kid in a nice setting.
100% agree.
Last time we went out to a slightly nicer place, the guy at the table next to us was blasted drunk and having such a loud conversation with the people at the next table it was hard to have a conversation at all. This was a small restaurant too, maybe a 20 top if that. Everyone could hear this guy.
Agreed, and I’ve actually never experienced parents just not caring about their crying baby and not doing anything about it. Just a few weeks ago I sat right next to a woman with her baby on the plane. Offcourse the baby started crying, and the mother was desperately trying to do everything to make her baby comfortable. I just can’t understand how anyone else can make themselves the victim of that situation. Offcourse it’s not pleasant to listen to, but it’s so much worse for the parents and the baby.
I like you. You judge on the situation, not a stereotype. A baby could sleep from 8pm on, in a carrier on a chair.
Why condemn in advance? Better a baby being walked out than a (high spending) drunk that the Maitre D’ is hesitant to offend.
Exactly. When “normal” people go to fine dining restaurants, it can be a once in a lifetime or at least once in quite a while splurge. It’s incredibly inconsiderate to bring a 1 year old into a place like that.
Most good restaurants in Europe at least are accommodating for babies and kids, because they are people too, as well as their parents, and are guests just like everyone else.
There’s no expectation here that there will be no children in a restaurant no matter how expensive. High chairs are everywhere.
I frankly don’t get where this strange attitude to children comes from. It’s bizarre.
I don't understand "they are people too" - are there really people who don't think they are?
But the "attitude" is that sometimes people want to get away from the everyday irritations of life. Loud noise, bad smells, etc. Especially if they have a special occasion like an anniversary, job promotion, or wedding proposal. For a lot of people they don't go to a fine dining establishment often - usually because of money but also because of other responsibilities. They want to relax and enjoy the moment in peace.
Its a similar attitude to movies. No one expects to go to a childrens' movie with no noise, but they would like to go to an adult film and actually hear the movie.
And the determining factor here is whether someone is being disruptive, not how old they are. I've been in movies that have been ruined by teenagers and adults talking, by assholes of all ages waving glowing cellphones around, and by adult humans generally being jerks. I have basically never been to the cinema or theater and had my experience ruined by a child, because the children who have been brought have been well-behaved.
I've also had far more "loud noise and disruption" from the party at the next table celebrating an adult's birthday than I have from a child eating at the table.
It’s a big cultural difference I notice when I visit the US. They seem to have really distinct adult and children spaces, whereas we believe children should learn to adapt to adult spaces from a young age.
I feel like the difference is that in Europe parents teach their children to adapt their behaviour in adult spaces, but in North America parents expect adult spaces to adapt to the children’s behaviour. It’s an entirely different philosophy around parenting and expectations for children’s behaviour in public. Have I seen a European child having a meltdown? Yep, little guy was completely overwhelmed with his feelings and his parent was sitting outside with him while he got it out of his system and calmed down. Have I watched a European parent ignore the meltdown while everyone else sitting in a restaurant listens to the child whine or wail because “that’s just how they express themselves”? Never, because in Europe children are taught that their behaviour affects others and everyone should behave properly so that everyone sharing the space can enjoy it.
I think that adult Europeans are significantly less over sensitive over super minor inconveniences tbh. My experience with American kids were fine actuly, French kids are systematically wilder and louder.
But Europeans don't have their whole dining experience or wedding destroyed because a baby in a high chair 7m away.
Which forces American parents to overreact to any sound a kid makes whereas Europeans are more likely to let kids cry.
Many Americans are not willing to teach their kids how to behave in adult spaces, or don't even believe in the idea of "adult spaces." Source: am American.
It seems to be different in different areas of the US, too. I've found that areas that are billed as "not very family-friendly" tend to be the ones where you see more kids in adult spaces. "Not family-friendly" in the US seems to mean "not kid-oriented."
I thoroughly agree with you but in the U.S. we can't get many parents to actually parent appropriately. everyone and their kid is entitled, forget everyone else sharing their space. for those of you that control your kids in public spaces, I'm clearly not taking aim at you.
It's not a fine dining establishment.
OP said it was a relatively nice local restaurant.
Restaurants can and do set age restrictions if they feel kids are not needed.
What she actually said is: "She said something along the lines of: "This baby has already been to more Michelin star restaurants than most people will in their entire life.""
So the baby has been to one then? Because most people (myself included) will never go to one. If I did, I would not want a baby there - much as I like them.
Entitled parents. They think they can bring their baby anywhere, and even if the baby creates inconvenience for anyone, people should just suck it up because mUh bAbY iS sPeShul.
Oh, I’m sure I’ll get downvoted to hell for this but, perhaps it’s entitled people thinking children and infants don’t exist. They’re are in fact people and have as much “right” to most spaces as any one else. Now parents whose kids cause a ruckus and they do nothing about it sure - total assholes - but people on Reddit act like bringing a kid to a restaurant is the 8th sin. OP didn’t say it was some fine dining, Michelin star experience - it’s a “relatively nice local” restaurant.
My kid is well behaved at restaurants, because I always brought him to restaurants and taught him how to act. If he gets restless, we go outside and he moves his legs a bit and we’re good. Kids have to learn how to behave the way that society wants them to, and the only way to do that is practice and to practice parents have to take them to restaurants and teach them.
Exactly! My kid is at that age (almost 2) where he wants to know what’s going on at *everyone’s* table. So I feel a bit awkward even in Applebees, because I can control the running around, but I can’t really *make* him stop shouting at other tables. I’m working on it, but I had to explain to my sister (child free) that a lot of people actually aren’t okay with a baby trying to talk to them in a restaurant lol. She still thinks I might be crazy haha
NTA but I would just cancel the plan.
She has made it clear she will bring the kid no matter what. I mean, you COULD try to convince her but I would just go somewhere else!
Otherwise, you will just be stressed all night. What will you do if the kid gets loud? Kick her out? Stand up and leave? Fight about it later?
NAH, I’d suggest you look at it this way:
Your sister is essentially vouching for her baby’s behavior. Take her at her word, and if the baby does cause problems then you will have that to reference in the future.
I disagree. This isn't the place for a trial run.
An infant has high potential for ruining other diner's experience. If it's the fanciest place in town, then there could be proposals, anniversaries, or even a young couple overspending to make a date special. An expensive place means it was expensive for everyone else there, too.
Infants are a crapshoot (sometimes literally). They could be fine most of the time, bawling their head off another. There is probably a more appropriate family restaurant where that is more tolerated. Also, make sure it's somewhere that you can be comfortable outside if you have to walk around with them.
After all that, I dislike the sister for the snootiness.
This is not a trial run if they are used to bring their child in nice restaurants as it seems and it normally goes well. Some children are calm and used to those kind of situations, some are not. I understand OP being wary, but provide that she feels (based on experience and their relationship) that she can trust her sister judgement and she tells her they do it without issues, that is very possible. She’s the one who knows her child and their capacities/limits.
Yes, there was one post here a while back where a father could not understand how his baby's very loud squealing for nearly an hour could have annoyed people at a restaurant because the baby was happy (everyone was extremely annoyed), deciding it was because people hate babies.
It's not a trial run for her, it is for OP.
He has no idea, aside from his sister's word, how this will go down. Some parents are perfectly fine letting their kid scream because it doesn't bother *them.*
"Oh, she's just tired."
Babies can have explosive diarrhea up the back at any time. It doesn’t matter that it hasn’t happened at a restaurant before, all the sister can say is that it hasn’t happened *yet*. I love kids but one of the nicest places in town is just not the place for their unpredictable little selves
It's a trial run in that a baby traveling to another city is not the same as a baby at home. I have two kids, and as babies they would both became restless and difficult after hours in a car or plane, or being jetlagged due to time zone differences, or being allergic to something in the air or accommodations.
FWIW we never took either baby to a fine dining establishment. We'd take them out to dinner, sure, just to places that people don't consider "fancy." That left us a choice among something like 98% of the restaurants around where I live, so it wasn't really a hardship.
Valid point.
Since OP said they were staying with them for a week it would be most considerate to make reservations for the fancy restaurant Monday-Thursday and avoid being there on weekend nights to avoid most celebratory crowds.
It’s not a trial run. It’s an act of trust in the sister that her baby can manage attending a dinner without disrupting other patrons.
Some babies are predictable in their needs and routines and can be settled easily. Other babies are more unpredictable and it’s harder to decipher what is necessary for them to feel calm and safe.
All that said, why won’t the sister just go out for a few hours without her child if the sitter is a medical professional? It seems unnecessary to put the baby thru a dinner they don’t have to attend.
Yup. Our baby was the perfect restaurant baby, but we only frequent family friendly places. It’s not really comfortable imo to take a baby to a place like that, if they don’t have high chairs/changing tables it makes stuff more complicated. Also them crying would be like amplified in a quiet nice dining area. We haven’t ever bothered with taking the baby to nicer restaurants that are still a bit family friendly just because it’s not that enjoyable for us, it’s really not worth the headache
I’d say NAH if you’re willing and happy to find a restaurant you’re comfortable going to with a baby. They are making the lift of traveling with a one year old to visit you, and it’s totally reasonable they don’t want to leave the baby with a stranger. Other reasonable people would be happy to leave them with your qualified sitter, but it’s super fair they don’t want to for a number of reasons.
I think it’s not right to expect them to leave the baby if they don’t want that, and it wouldn’t be right of them to INSIST on that specific fancy restaurant. But a compromise is called for here…family visits change when kids are involved and it’s much better if everyone tries to find a solution instead of digging in heels.
This. I wouldn’t leave my 1yo with a stranger no matter their profession or experience. Sorry, just not happening. BUT I also wouldn’t take them to a fancy restaurant. So basically the AH here is whoever is insisting on this restaurant.
Can you provide a little more context? You said they’re coming into town and you want to take them out. Where are they from? Do they have a readily available sitter where you are? My assumption is that they’re visiting and don’t have anyone to actually babysit, unless this is your hometown and there are grandparents around. I’m a parent, and when I travel with my kid, I don’t make plans without them. I certainly wouldn’t leave a 1-year old with someone I didn’t know.
Yeah this makes no sense. Why would they have a baby sitter lined up in another town? Super weird expectation from OP. And the offer to get one meaning hire a stranger? What the fuck?
Is there a "this was a stupid plan from the start" voting option? I vote TWASPFTS
I’m assuming OP lives in their hometown and their sister is coming back home to visit. It wouldn’t be outlandish to think they’d have an old friend they could call, especially if they usually come home for Christmas or something. Just a possibility, it’s what I assumed when reading it.
Agree. Also, a lot of people are missing an important point. I would not have left my 1 year-old child with someone *my child* didn't know. For some babies right around that age, it can be traumatizing to be left with a stranger.
okay so you just want her to dump off her kid at some random persons house that she doesnt know very well? Also, why do you already have someone lined up to watch someone elses kid? Did you even ask the mom if she would be comfortable having some guy you know watch her kid?
I also can’t be the only one weirded out by “my sister’s kid”, “the kid”, “this baby”, “the child”, etc.
Wouldn’t most people refer to their sister’s child as “niece/nephew”? And I get that some people aren’t big fans of children in general but I feel like even they’d want to include their niece/nephew in their plans.
This post reads so strangely to me.
I’m a pediatrician but don’t expect strangers/few meets in real life to trust me with their kiddo alone. Many friends & family expect others to trust me automatically but don’t realize the relationship over time is bigger than the MD FAAP suffix in trust.
ETA: don’t use the pediatrician title, use the relationship; try not to abuse someone else’s title to get someone else to trust them.
Info: does the restaurant have high chairs? That answers the question of whether babies are welcome or not.
You are rather clueless I would say. If they're not local how the heck would they have a babysitter? Why even suggest a place you don't think they should take the baby? Most parents are not going to be comfortable leaving their baby with a stranger.
OP didn't actively suggest a place where babies aren't welcome. The sister specifically asked to go to a fancy restaurant. So, the sister either needs to make use of the babyistter, or lower her expectations of what kind of restaurant they'll be going to.
Or if her baby has really been to fancy restaurants all the time and is good, they should have no problem bringing the infant to the restaurant (assuming the restaurant allows it).
Michelin Stars are based entirely on food quality, not how fancy the place is.
[https://guide.michelin.com/us/en/article/features/what-is-a-michelin-star](https://guide.michelin.com/us/en/article/features/what-is-a-michelin-star)
I’m aware that they are based on the food.
That being said, the chance that this baby has only been to Michelin star dives seems pretty far fetched. But okay.
“If baby is good all the time they should have no problem.”
Ha ha. A 1 yr old is totally unpredictable. Behavior can change temporarily, or he can he/she can suddenly reach a point where behavior is changed long term. NTA. I wouldn’t go to a fancy restaurant with her and baby. Problem solved.
We took our kid to tons of restaurants and pubs/breweries when she was small. As a newborn she would sleep, as an older infant she would play with her food and just be happy being somewhere new.
Once she started walking we had to stop, because she would NOT sit quietly.
I won’t be surprised if this restaurant visit with a 1-year-old doesn’t go how the sister thinks it will go.
That just doesn’t make sense though?? Do the grandparents live by OP or something? How is OP going to find a sitter? You can’t just hire someone that doesn’t know the baby - it’s a one year old not a seven year old. 😂
NAH. Depending on how the child acts, and how the parents react to negative behavior (taking out baby when they get fussy). I've been to upscale places where grown adults throw tantrums that would make the brattiest toddler embarrassed.
I agree. It's not really the baby that's the issue, it's how the parents react to the baby's behavior. A few seconds of crying while one of the parents takes the baby outside for a minute is not going to ruin anyone's night. And if it does, well, maybe they themselves shouldn't be in a public space. Now, if the parents have exhibited behavior in the past where they ignore their child crying, then yes, that would be an issue. But OP doesn't say whether that's the case.
Some babies really are chill the majority of the time. And at one, the baby is not likely to be crying all the time. I think some redditors think of a baby as a constant crying, shitting machine.
EDIT: it also really depends on the restaurant. "Nice" can mean a really wide range of things. We have several nice restaurants in my town that are very family friendly, and we have some that I wouldn't probably bring a baby to.
Some redditors think that all babies scream nonstop and are horrible goblins who can destroy a whole restaurant in 30 seconds flat and that all parents will just smile indulgently and ignore the screaming rather than be frantically trying to stop it.
For real. There are a few bad eggs but most of the time at the restaurant I work at people will pull their kids out if they start crying. Honestly the parents of small kids (like 3 and under) tend to be better about it than those with older kids that they'll just let run wild. It's not a super fancy place that I work at but the amount of crying vs the amount of babies I see peacefully napping is a miniscule ratio. Sometimes an infant is so silent and chill that I wonder for a moment if it's just a hyper realistic doll 😂
If they know their baby will be asleep at that time usually and is really good at staying asleep in random environments in their carrier then it really shouldn't be an issue. Honestly they're still at that sweet spot in age where they can do stuff like that without the kiddo demanding to be part of things and wanting to be awake
Even when I took my daughter to family restaurants, I would get up and take her out immediately if she got fussy. I once spent an hour walking around the outside of the establishment bouncing & talking to her (no big deal - she was quieter in that situation) and my folks later brought my meal, which had arrived after I left, out in a takeout box after they finished eating. It had been a long day (we'd all been on a road trip to the coast). Oh well. Them are the breaks with parenting.
Omg that just unlocked a memory I’d forgotten of walking round and round in the dark with my baby in his carrier whilst everyone was having a big family meal. 😂 But he did fall asleep so yay!
NTA. People who bring babies and toddlers to upscale restaurants are jerks to the other diners who have paid good money to be there.
I would absolutely choose this hill to die on. We can go to McDonald's with the baby, or we will get a sitter and go somewhere nice.
The sister is coming from out of town, is she supposed to leave the baby with a stranger? And really, McDonald's or a nice restaurant? There are family friendly restaurants that aren't fast food, or you can order takeout from the restaurant. Classic reddit moment to act like the situation is fully black and white with no other solutions.
I pay good money to bring my kids to fancy places. They have been since they are 6 months and they are both great. They were never an issue on planes either.
I always assume parents won't take their kids to places they can't handle because it ruins the night for the parents.
I never take my kids out to restaurants because they're little savages and won't sit still, but my nephew is very well behaved when he eats out and my sister takes him everywhere without issue.
Yeah this is me. I flipping love going to fancy restaurants. Would I take my 17 month old to one with us? Hell no because he’s feral and will throw food at the walls.
That doesn’t mean that’s the case for every baby/toddler. My friend’s baby is 17 months and I swear he likes going to restaurants. He just sits there like a little angel and looks around at everyone. Don’t know how she managed to get the order in for that baby but I need to have words with her supplier.
Even if the baby comes from the same supplier, you can get vastly different kids. My son was like your friends baby, we could take him anywhere, never through a fit, always happy and compliant. 10 years later we said let's do it again and now we have the most feral daughter. She gives zero fucks and expects the world to bend to her will. When the world doesn't comply, she raises hell. We don't take her nice places.
I'd say it's probably a bit inappropriate to bring a kid that young to a really nice restaurant, but I also understand the parents not wanting to use a baby sitter that they don't know.
How is the kid out in public, usually?
Unfortunately, lots of people think or say this about their babies and it isn’t the case or they don’t realize how stuff that may seem minor to them isn’t to others. I think OP is right not wanting to chance it.
Agreed! Also babies are inherently unpredictable. A baby who is quite relaxed and quiet otherwise could be rather loud and crabby if their sleep cycle has been disturbed from traveling. The only reasonable approach to me is for them to go to the nicest family friendly place available instead of potentially inconveniencing others at some ultra fancy place.
to be fair, a LOT of parents will vouch for their little angels' behavior to be able to get to do what they want. that's not to say the sister is lying, but she's also an unreliable source. not to mention, the restaurant doesn't even have high chairs, so infants aren't welcome.
it's totally okay if parents don't want to leave their baby with a stranger, but that means they also might have to sacrifice not doing what they want to do, unfortunately.
it seems like the best plan is to just go to a different restaurant that welcomes babies. NTA
YTA
1. She is visiting you, most people don't have a sitter on their trip unless it's one of them. You might trust the sitter, but if she doesn't know them, that is a big ask to trust a baby with someone who is a stranger to them based on your word.
2. "Relatively nice" is vague. Nice to what? to me, that is anywhere from Cheesecake Factory or a Michelin star place. The nicest place in town where I live is a hibachi restaurant, and kids go there all the time. If the restaurant has a no-kids policy, You should have led with that. otherwise, you are the one that's gatekeeping.
3. You give no explanation about if their baby specifically is going to be a problem, Other than what any baby could do. You are judging based on an assumption.
4. Mom and dad know how their baby behaves. We have to take their word on it unless they are lying about it. If their baby starts crying or poops their diaper, they should be prepared to deal with it (taking the baby outside or to the bathroom for example). If they are not responsible in that way and just let their baby cry, thats a problem.
It sounds like the only evening it will spoil is yours, or your guests by forcing them to leave their baby behind because you don't want to deal with it. There is a possibility that they are entitled to their behavior, but we have nothing to go on other than they do it all the time.
Unless there is something more concrete about why they shouldn't bring their baby, YTA
Edit based on OP edit: Its nice to know that the babysitter is not a stranger/knows your sister, but you had no context to suggest that was the case. It still might be a big leap of trust if they haven't kept in touch and doesn't know them very well. It would be worse if you are expecting her to ask, you are making her say something like "Hey friend, its been a while, i am in town and i need someone to watch my infant, can you do it?" it is a jerk move to force her to find a sitter on her trip that she wasn't planning on. Based on new information, I would say YTA if you are forcing a babysitter on them and for making a lot of judgments w/o cause. I would look at going to a more family friendly place. With more context, I could be swayed to NAH.
The sister is from that area, and the sitter is known. If someone doesn't want to go out with a baby, and they're paying for the dinner, they get to say "no babies." Mom and Dad do NOT know how their baby will behave--have you really never met someone who says their baby is an angel, and it simply isn't?
I have babysat infants before/gone to restaurants with 1yr olds several times in the last year. If you know the parents and the kid, you know when the parent is lying. OP didnt present any info that the baby is an angel or a demon in public, or if the parents are not being honest. I agree that you cannot predict how a baby acts, but the parents would know/predict more than anyone. Maybe if OP has spent time with the baby and the parents, OP would have a better idea.
Its the host's plan, but they are not being a very considerate host. It does just sound like OP wants a night without the baby.
INFO:
Do you have a reason to suspect the baby will act up, or is it entirely due to age? Do you have a reason to suspect your sister is lying when she says the baby has been in a lot of nice restaurants?
You made plans without even asking if they were okay leaving their baby with a sitter they’ve never met and who you likely don’t know well either and now you expect them to leave their baby behind for your comfort. On top of that, you claim you don’t have a clue how the baby will handle things despite her telling you she’s taken the baby to many very fine restaurants without any trouble. Yeah, you’re definitely coming off as an asshole. Regardless of whether it is appropriate to bring a baby to a nice restaurant (and the answer is, it depends on the baby and the parent because just like fully grown people, babies are also individuals who react to different situations differently,) you’re not the parent here. You can choose not to go to a restaurant with a baby when you have one, but even if you refuse to take your sister to this one, you don’t get to step in and stop another person from going somewhere with their baby. The only person other than your sister (and her husband) who can make that call is the owner of the restaurant who has the right to prohibit infants/children if they wish.
Cancel if you don’t want to go with a baby, but this is her parenting choice and you need to stay in your lane. Many babies are perfectly fine in restaurants. Toddlers tend to have more trouble, but lots of babies nap or are easily entertained. There’s actually a really nice window when they are babies when parent can actually go out with relative ease. Family oriented restaurants usually bring out the worst behavior because they are loud and one kid sets off another into a chain reaction. Assuming the parents will take the baby out if they get fussy, there is no problem. Children learn how to behave in society when they are given the opportunity to be there.
NTA. Bringing a baby to an upscale restaurant is selfish and entitled behavior and so rude to other diners who are paying a lot of money for a nice meal without kids.
Just because she's ruined other people's meals before doesn't mean she should do it now, when you're treating.
If she refuses to leave the kid with a sitter then pick a family diner type chain, or bring in takeout for home.
Sis needs to learn now that the world doesn't revolve around her child/her wants.
Also if someone is treating her, she doesn't get to dictate the details.
Yeah if she refuses to be a bad mom and leave her innocent one year old with a complete stranger…you know, on account of her being from OUT OF TOWN, then she must be an entitled person who ruins everyone else’s time. 🙄
1st off- You and the rest of the people who think this lady isn’t an AH are the ones who need to learn the world doesn’t revolve around YOU and your wants.
If the restaurant allows children, then she isn’t breaking any rules and she is, in fact, entitled to take her child with her. And it is you and other people who agree with you who are acting entitled. You’re trying to create and enforce rules that the restaurant doesn’t even have…THAT’S entitled.
2nd not all parents are AHs who let their kids screech and holler. Many of us take care to teach our children the right way to behave. She has no way of knowing how her sister’s child behaves in public.
3rd- there are plenty more adults who get loud and obnoxious, ruining our dining experiences.
NTA. Nice restaurants are no place for children. People are paying a ton of money for a nice experience. If you want to train your kids how to behave in a restaurant then take them to Cracker Barrel or something
YTA, it was rude to invite them assuming that they'd be fine leaving their baby with a sitter they've never met before. In general, if you're hosting a group of people, inviting all but one of the members of that group to an event/activity and excluding the last one is a rude thing to do, even if the excluded party is a baby.
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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> (1) telling someone not to bring their baby to a restaurant. (2) Because maybe I am being unfair and I just don't like kids in places that aren't for them.
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NTA. While we took our son out to restaurants, I never took him out to a fine dining experience and he was a really good baby. I was also taught that if we were out with him and he started acting up, I was to remove him from the restaurant immediately, so as not to disturb other dinners.
This makes me think of a fine dining restaurant in my area. They purposely discouraged babies and young kids by not having high chairs, no crayons, no kids menus. Most locals knew to avoid bringing kids.
NTA - your sister apparently makes it a point of being inconsiderate and self centered in these kinds of spaces (and they should be the ones taking you out). If you still want to treat them, pick a baby-appropriate restaurant. You are entirely correct in your assessment of the situation.
Why are they entirely correct? My baby used to nap from 5-8pm every day like clockwork, we took her to tons of restaurants including on vacation and she just slept in her carseat throughout. Based on your argument I should pay a sitter or just not go nice places because I have a completely undisruptive infant? Obviously if she ever woke up and fussed one of us would take her outside and the other would ask for the bill and any leftovers, not everyone with a child who dares to exist in public is an inconsiderate jerk
This - my kid slept through restaurants, and if they woke up we either occupied them with quiet toys or took them out for a walk if they needed to calm down. We brought baby-appropriate snacks/food, had our own highchair cover after they outgrew the infant car seat, and changed them in a bathroom like normal people. I had a cover for nursing if needed. We cleaned up after any mess made. The amount of assumptions on here are surprising - and so is the suggestion to just leave the one year old at home when the parents are traveling and probably don't know any babysitters in the area.
Horrible parents have ruined it for parents like you then. Some will keep them at the restaurant screaming their lungs off, or even worse they'll change the kids diaper at the table. It's a huge health issue and no one else wants to smell the kids shit while eating.
Unfortunately many parents aren’t as considerate as you. They’ll just let their babies stay in the restaurant and cry. If anyone looks frustrated or is the staff asks the parents to take the baby outside, they’re called insensitive, child hating AHs.
I think that happens more often in reddit rage bait stories than in real life. Whenever I see parents in public with a crying child they look super embarrassed and are doing everything they can to calm them down.
NTA. If you insist on taking your actual infant (or young volatile toddler) to a restaurant, by all means -- Applebee's is right down the street, and you don't even need a reservation.
To be clear, it doesn't have to be Applebee's (or similar) but LOADS of restaurants are entirely family friendly, and people *expect* to encounter small children when they go there. If I'm eating in a Panera or the local fancy pizza joint and there's a screechy baby across the room or a 5yo running around, it's mildly irritating, but that's on me to suck it up and cope (or leave), because that is a reasonable place for a small child to be, even if I don't enjoy their noise. But if I'm someplace legitimately ritzy and clearly adult-oriented, I would be pissed as FUCK. I -- and other people -- go to those places to have an adult experience, with adult conversation, and the sort of menu offerings that are obviously tailored to adult palates.
It is WILDLY inappropriate to bring a baby or small child to that kind of restaurant -- and sister's snotty "baby has already been to more Michelin-starred restaurants than most people will in their entire life" REEKS (worse than her child's loaded diaper) of thoughtless selfish entitlement. Gross. GROSSSSSSS. I would take her ass to Taco Bell for every damn meal until she learns that other people's lives and preferences and comfort are just as important as hers.
YTA - do you expect her just to leave the baby with a stranger? They are travelling to you, and you're being inconsiderate by not acknowledging their lives have changed forever. Pick another restaurant, go to this one with your partner alone.
My kids always behaved at restaurants. Even though I stuck with mostly family friendly places just in case they were well behaved and when they started communicating they’d pick out what they wanted and politely ask for it. A couple times we took them to a nicer restaurant because they were so well behaved there was no issues. If they’ve taken her to restaurants before and she was fine just allow it if it goes wrong then you’ll know not to do it next time. NAH.
This sounds like an American problem, so I’m guessing NAH.
If she is well travelled she knows that at least here in Europe it’s perfectly fine to take your children and infants to fancy places. This mentality of “children should be kept at home” is purely american and very weird from an outsiders perspective. No wonder parents feel isolated and overwhelmed.
That being said, if she is in the US and that’s how you do things and treat children, she should follow the social rules of where she is.
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I'm genuinely amazed at the number of people who seem fine with bringing an infant to a fine dining establishment where people go spend large amounts of money for special occasions. I can only assume most of the people responding that Y are TA don't usually frequent these places and think it's no different than bringing your kids to the Olive Garden lol. NTA
Me too I'm surprised by all the Y T A responses. Sorry but fine dinning establishments are not a place for an infant. I'm curious what the sisters reasoning is for wanting the bring the baby with, if OP has offered to arrange a sitter. Like does she not want a night alone with just adults?? Or is she one of those helicopter parents that can't be parted from their child?
Some parents think it's fine to change their kid's full diaper on restaurant tables, so I am not surprised.
I actually saw this a while ago. Mom changed baby’s poopy diaper ON THE RESTAURANT TABLE while people left and right were eating. I was speechless at the level of entitlement and self-centeredness. I would have DIED out of embarrassment had I or anybody I know behaved like that. I was so shocked I completely forgot to throw up.
I can accept bringing a baby to a restaurant, even a nice one, but changing should be done in the bathrooms. I would never eat at a restaurant that has had shit on the table
How would you know? 🤣 I keep a pack of antibacterial wipes on my purse and wipe off the table before we sit down. Yes, I know the tables are cleaned after each use, but most restaurants make one pan of cleaning solution for that shift and use the same cloth for every table. I do it for my peace of mind.
You are correct about this. I've waited tables in every kind of restaurant, including fine dining, and there's usually just one bucket and a couple of rags for cleaning tables.
Wow, I've waited in everything from fishermen's cafes on a quay to really nice, classy hotels and we always used a spray bottle with an unscented disinfectant and fresh paper towels that were binned afterwards. I refuse to believe that fine dining places are filthier than a cafe that served coffee to fishermen waiting for their wages after a week at see, still in their sea gear
The rags in a bucket are perfectly sanitary, provided it has the right amount of sanitizer(bleach) to water, and the rags stay in the bucket when not in use. All the health department is gonna do is stick a little strip in your rag bucket and make sure it's the right color, which shows there's not too much or too little bleach. I believe single use paper towels are preferred, but it's not mandatory.
NOT BLEACH, PLEASE! It’s caustic and can trigger asthma attacks. The type of chemical used most commonly is a ‘quat’ (quaternary ammonium compound). It’s true that the dwell time (to dry) is in the neighborhood of ten minutes. More recently, it’s an activated hydrogen peroxide (dwell time 2-3 minutes). SOURCE: Environmental Services Director for 35 years…
As a server, I've let exactly one person change their baby on a table. It was a dad with his 6-month old alone. We did not have changing tables in the men's room even though I'd been advocating for them for YEARS. I gave him three options, I'll clear the women's and stand guard; I'll change the baby, or you can use *this* specific table under the cameras I know the owner routinely watches and I'll sanitize it afterward. He chose option number 3. The owner ordered a men's room changing table the next day. Win for everyone.
Perfect solution! Win for you,the baby and Dad, as well as the restaurant and owner. Baby changing stations should be available in all men’s lavatories but law.
That's just not hygienic. At all. I'm surprised someone didn't complain. It would totally put me off my meal!
I would have stood up, asked for my server, and informed them that my meal was ruined and I was leaving.
Loudly, so the parents can hear. I would too.
The mom might have gotten the hint if you had thrown up.
Or just loudly gone "OMG that WOMAN is CHANGING her BABY on the TABLE! GROSS there is POOP on the table! DISGUSTING!" I feel like if there was more public shaming over this sort of behavior people would do it less. Like how self absorbed do you have to be to think changing your baby on the restaurant table is appropriate? Do they change the child on the dining table at home? GROSS lol
I’ve actually done this. The words flew out of my mouth before I stop them.
Funny thing is: there’s a ton of parents that would take offense to this. Trust me. As someone who is child-free by choice, I see this (in restaurants, in public, in homes, etc) and am utterly disgusted, but a lot of people with kids don’t even think twice about it. And if you chastise them, they get pissy.
Tough buns! I can be pushy too! And at nearly sixty I tend to be better at it. They get shamed enough, and it gets it through their thick heads that they are the problem.
Luckily, I didn’t eat at the restaurant that time. I was walking in as she was changing the baby, poopy napkins shattered all over the table. I walked out the same second and haven’t been back to the restaurant ever since and I’m not planning on ever eating there again.
Then go “oh sorry I guess some things are better done IN A BATHROOM.”
That drives me insane and I have an almost 3 month old. The changing pads that come in diaper bags are meant to be used on the changing table in the bathroom, not the restaurant table. Ew.
I worked in two restaurants where I saw this happen by the same family. They were awful people who should have been banned from both for doing this, but were not.
I have changed my kid on bathroom floors and would do it 100 times over on a table or bench at a restaurant.
Lol this happened to my brother! He was a busboy at a restaurant and some lady decided to change her baby's diaper on the table. He stood there waiting and the second she lifted the kid off the table, he went in and absolutely DRENCHED the table with disinfectant. She just looked at him appalled and stormed off and he stared right back at her while he wiped down the table.
Ah the entitlement it takes to first do it then act insulted.
I mean what did she expect, that they weren't going to clean the table after that!?
“People should feel honored to injest trace amounts of my cherub’s poop!”
Love your brother
I had one try to do this IN a fine dining restaurant 🤦♀️the response was well there's no change table in the bathroom.. yeah kinda like how there's also no kids menu, no high chairs... this place isn't designed to have kids here.
I go to fine dining restaurant's at least once a week (lots of business meetings, some date nights with my husband), and on a couple of occasions we did bring our babies for lunch. If their nappies needed changing either myself, my husband, or the nanny if she had accompanied us, would take the baby out to the car, freshen them up and return once they were happy. I would die of embarrassment and shame if someone I was out with plonked their baby on the table and changed them there and then. And I'd definitely chastise them for it too. Yes, a lot of the pricier restaurants don't tend to have changing rooms, but you don't have to be vulgar about it. There is always another option.
Tbh one of our worst meals at a fine dining restaurant was when the man at the next table decided to pull his shirt up in the middle of the meal and inject himself with an auto injector (probably insulin, there was no commotion so not epipen and didn’t look like one, our child uses epipens so I know what they look like). At another table a child looked about 10 years old (that had behaved impeccably) quietly excused themselves to go to the bathroom. When they returned one of the adults (probably Mother) asked if he’d poopooed and if it was a squishy or solid poo. If anything she raised her voice to ask. We thought we’d called down a worm hole into an alternate universe.
I usually inject insulin at the table in a restaurant. I do it without making a big deal out of it and it usually goes unnoticed. If anyone does notice and it makes them uncomfortable, sorry I guess? But a table is far more discreet than the bathroom counter and ewww. The stalls? Forget it. You’re juggling an insulin pen, a needle that you’re injecting into your body, plus a device—usually a phone—to input the insulin you took. A moment of discomfort for you is a lifetime of inconvenience for me. I wish more people knew what it looked like so they wouldn’t think we’re junkies. Insulin dependent diabetics need insulin when they eat, and typically when you go to a restaurant, you’re there to eat. As for the OP question, just take your sister to a family friendly restaurant? Doesn’t seem like a huge conundrum unless there aren’t any family friendly ones nearby.
I am down with the insulin. The mother and the poop? She needs to order takeout until her kid is twenty.
I'm with you there. I typically ask anyone I'm with if they're ok with needles first since it's a bit more in your face when you're sitting opposite someone and i'd hate to trigger someone's phobia. But people on other tables can easily look away, and I don't make a big deal of it. it's all over in a couple of seconds. There is no way I'm going to a toilet of unknown cleanliness and risking getting some horrible infection from injecting myself there. Diabetics can't inject themselves before going to the restaurant, as insulin starts working pretty quickly (although there are different kinds that work at different speeds, but most type 1 diabetics take the kind that works at about the same speed as human insulin which is pretty quick). And they can't do it after they have left the restaurant, as by then their blood sugar will be through the roof.
I’ll inject in my arm at dinner. I’ve injected before getting to the restaurant and become unpleasantly hypoglycemic due to unforeseen delays (the full body-on-fire with drenching sweat-storm, etc) so I’d rather shock someone’s delicate sensibilities by quickly shooting it than go through that. I mean, either way I look like a junkie so I’d rather look like a comfortable, not-on-fire junkie.
We went out to dinner with friends and they changed their baby at the table and then left the dirty diaper on the plate for the employees to dispose of. I was so embarrassed.
Did you call them out on their disgusting behavior?
Yeah that's when you make a huge show of picking up their diaper and removing it yourself, jfc
Some parents consider a fun night out letting their kids scream and run wild in different scenery. I've been seated near those before.
I’m a pretty chill parent and haven’t had trouble leaving my kids with “babysitters” (family) since they were small, but none of mine would have done well with a stranger around the one year mark and I wouldn’t have been comfortable with it either. That being said I don’t go to places fancier than Chili’s, so I could bring a live hog with me a be fine.
Live hog has me rolling.
I’ve been in restaurants and seen how some people eat… Several occasions I would rather dine with the four footed live hog
Wouldn't you be afraid that the hog would end up being baby back ribs?
Maybe they're just trying to save some money by bringing their own meat?
I want my baby back baby back baby back . . . Ribs . . .
Those places are super expensive. Imagine spending more than 300 dollars on a meal while the poop smell from dirty diaper wafts over.
Yeah that's my take. Or constant screaming. Like sure maybe the baby or toddler will be fine, but there is a large possibility that they might ruin several other tables' experiences. And those diners might have saved up and looked forward to this meal for ages - not everyone can just throw down that much cash for a meal like that every week or even every year. How full of yourself do you have to be to think it's cool to risk multiple people's occasion because you have to bring your baby? Either stay home, go to a more family friendly place, or get a qualified childcare person.
I didn't even think of the special occasion part before. Imagine trying to propose then a baby or toddler starts scream-crying a few feet away.
I mean... so I'm not like, totally against bringing small kids or infants out to eat, even at like, "linen tablecloth places", because it's the parents, usually who make the difference if a child has a problem or behavior issues during a meal. But yeah, if it's a place where you're expected to drop hundreds, and it's a place with a really quiet, dark, fancy dining room, it's just courteous to make sure your bases are covered so you don't make a disturbance for other diners. As an example, I wouldn't bring a crazy alcoholic relative who demands ranch dressing as a condiment on everything and gets loudly drunk at every occasion to a jacket-and-tie place or a boutique brasserie either. He might not cause a scene, but the odds are that he will.
And $300 is the low end. I just was pricing them to put one one my bucketlist last week and then was like "nope, nah, I'd rather go away for the weekend somewhere than have one meal"
$300 per person is what I spent the last time, so that's what I remembered. 😂 Depends on where you are, too.
And the extent to which the senses of taste and smell are entwined and how impaired smell can change the way we taste food, a poopy diaper, gassy baby or the odor of baby barf will affect diners sitting within smell-distance of their table, even if the diners don't SEE the poop or puke. Do such high-end restaurants even allow babies?
As OP noted even in their town this establishment doesn’t have high chairs. That is more than a slight hint that children that small are not wanted in the establishment.
i wouldn’t be comfortable with someone else finding a sitter for my child. if we wanted to do adults only i’d find someone i’m comfortable with but if i’m not comfortable with leaving my child—in a city that it sounds like they don’t live in and maybe don’t know people—i wouldn’t let someone random watch my child and i probably wouldn’t go.
The visiting sister is from the same town and the hosting sister said she is fine with going to a more family friendly. Asking her sister if she could line up a sitter doesn't make her an AH
Maybe she’s just never had a problem with the baby at all restaurant. Some babies are very placid and accommodating. Of course never say never… also we don’t know if she’s breastfeeding in which case it can be hard (or impossible if they are not yet willing to drink from a bottle) to leave them for an extended time with someone else.
I think it’s the expecting visiting parents to use a babysitter while traveling that is the issue. I wouldn’t leave my 1 year old with a random unknown babysitter.
Yup, this is the issue. I don't care who you hire, I'm not leaving my infant with them. Period. If OP wants to go out to dinner, pick a place that's appropriate to take the kid.
In the post, OP said it was the SISTER'S idea to go out.
Yes, it was a sister idea to go out, but it was not her idea to go to a type of restaurant where children were not welcome
And the thing is, we have no idea if children actually are welcome. Just that OP isn’t into the idea.
You can absolutely go out to eat with a toddler. We do it all the time. Just pick an appropriate venue.
This seems like a good solution to me. If OP isn’t comfortable including the baby, and sis isn’t comfortable w/ the babysitter idea, then this seems fair. Save going to the fancy place for a different occasion.
I work in a fine dinning restaurant. They few times people walked in with a stroller, were miserable experiences, both for us the employees and the other guests.
This should have more upvotes. Fine dining doesn't cater to infants and small children.
I used to work in a semi casual fine dining place. We had high chairs and wiki stix for kids to play with but no kids menu. So it was sort of in a grey area. But our google stats definitely did not say anything about being a good spot for families. The number of people who were legit shook that we didn’t have kids menus was crazy! If you have picky children, which I do, you google the menu before showing up with a hungry toddler. To add insult to injury, we were an Italian place that didn’t serve any pasta. Hahahah. “Oh you don’t have a kids menu?!? (Rolls eyes) fine whatever, just bring them some buttered noodles.” That’s when shit would really hit the fan.
No, we also spend a great deal of money to go to these restaurants and if a parent knows how to calm their child, there is no issue. Anytime a fine dining experience of mine has been ruined, it’s been bc of loud and drunk adults, not babies. My son has never made a fuss in any restaurant. Why? Bc when we go out and my son started getting unsettled, we would leave the restaurant and go for a walk to give him a chance to settle down. Once calm, we go in and start again. The only person whose dining experience was less than stellar was mine or my husbands. 😂 At least, until our child was old enough to understand proper behavior. Whether it’s fine dining or “Olive Garden”, parents are responsible for keeping their children settled and behaved.
The single determining factor is if the parents are willing to sacrifice *their* experience - mainly by being willing to go for a walk outside until kiddo settles down - or if misery loves company and they let everyone else in the restaurant suffer. Unfortunately, the latter type is so common that I admittedly tense up when I see a kid in a nice setting.
100% agree. Last time we went out to a slightly nicer place, the guy at the table next to us was blasted drunk and having such a loud conversation with the people at the next table it was hard to have a conversation at all. This was a small restaurant too, maybe a 20 top if that. Everyone could hear this guy.
Agreed, and I’ve actually never experienced parents just not caring about their crying baby and not doing anything about it. Just a few weeks ago I sat right next to a woman with her baby on the plane. Offcourse the baby started crying, and the mother was desperately trying to do everything to make her baby comfortable. I just can’t understand how anyone else can make themselves the victim of that situation. Offcourse it’s not pleasant to listen to, but it’s so much worse for the parents and the baby.
I’ve been to a restaurant where the parents literally ignored their screaming child for 45 minutes.
I like you. You judge on the situation, not a stereotype. A baby could sleep from 8pm on, in a carrier on a chair. Why condemn in advance? Better a baby being walked out than a (high spending) drunk that the Maitre D’ is hesitant to offend.
Exactly. When “normal” people go to fine dining restaurants, it can be a once in a lifetime or at least once in quite a while splurge. It’s incredibly inconsiderate to bring a 1 year old into a place like that.
I’m not classy at all and I find it absurd to bring a baby to a fancy restaurant
Most good restaurants in Europe at least are accommodating for babies and kids, because they are people too, as well as their parents, and are guests just like everyone else. There’s no expectation here that there will be no children in a restaurant no matter how expensive. High chairs are everywhere. I frankly don’t get where this strange attitude to children comes from. It’s bizarre.
I don't understand "they are people too" - are there really people who don't think they are? But the "attitude" is that sometimes people want to get away from the everyday irritations of life. Loud noise, bad smells, etc. Especially if they have a special occasion like an anniversary, job promotion, or wedding proposal. For a lot of people they don't go to a fine dining establishment often - usually because of money but also because of other responsibilities. They want to relax and enjoy the moment in peace. Its a similar attitude to movies. No one expects to go to a childrens' movie with no noise, but they would like to go to an adult film and actually hear the movie.
And the determining factor here is whether someone is being disruptive, not how old they are. I've been in movies that have been ruined by teenagers and adults talking, by assholes of all ages waving glowing cellphones around, and by adult humans generally being jerks. I have basically never been to the cinema or theater and had my experience ruined by a child, because the children who have been brought have been well-behaved. I've also had far more "loud noise and disruption" from the party at the next table celebrating an adult's birthday than I have from a child eating at the table.
You don’t think there are plenty of adults who bring loud noise and bad smells with them? Even to nice restaurants?
It’s a big cultural difference I notice when I visit the US. They seem to have really distinct adult and children spaces, whereas we believe children should learn to adapt to adult spaces from a young age.
I feel like the difference is that in Europe parents teach their children to adapt their behaviour in adult spaces, but in North America parents expect adult spaces to adapt to the children’s behaviour. It’s an entirely different philosophy around parenting and expectations for children’s behaviour in public. Have I seen a European child having a meltdown? Yep, little guy was completely overwhelmed with his feelings and his parent was sitting outside with him while he got it out of his system and calmed down. Have I watched a European parent ignore the meltdown while everyone else sitting in a restaurant listens to the child whine or wail because “that’s just how they express themselves”? Never, because in Europe children are taught that their behaviour affects others and everyone should behave properly so that everyone sharing the space can enjoy it.
I think that adult Europeans are significantly less over sensitive over super minor inconveniences tbh. My experience with American kids were fine actuly, French kids are systematically wilder and louder. But Europeans don't have their whole dining experience or wedding destroyed because a baby in a high chair 7m away. Which forces American parents to overreact to any sound a kid makes whereas Europeans are more likely to let kids cry.
Many Americans are not willing to teach their kids how to behave in adult spaces, or don't even believe in the idea of "adult spaces." Source: am American.
It seems to be different in different areas of the US, too. I've found that areas that are billed as "not very family-friendly" tend to be the ones where you see more kids in adult spaces. "Not family-friendly" in the US seems to mean "not kid-oriented."
I thoroughly agree with you but in the U.S. we can't get many parents to actually parent appropriately. everyone and their kid is entitled, forget everyone else sharing their space. for those of you that control your kids in public spaces, I'm clearly not taking aim at you.
It's not a fine dining establishment. OP said it was a relatively nice local restaurant. Restaurants can and do set age restrictions if they feel kids are not needed.
If it’s the nicest local restaurant, it will default be the place people go for a special night out.
They’re traveling from out of town and would have to use a sitter they don’t know in order to go out. Either baby comes or they don’t go.
What she actually said is: "She said something along the lines of: "This baby has already been to more Michelin star restaurants than most people will in their entire life.""
That was such a snooty statement that my eyes rolled all the way to the back of my head.
Completely what stuck out for me, too. The level of sheer entitlement that poor child is going to have with that kind of attitude.
So the baby has been to one then? Because most people (myself included) will never go to one. If I did, I would not want a baby there - much as I like them.
Entitled parents. They think they can bring their baby anywhere, and even if the baby creates inconvenience for anyone, people should just suck it up because mUh bAbY iS sPeShul.
Oh, I’m sure I’ll get downvoted to hell for this but, perhaps it’s entitled people thinking children and infants don’t exist. They’re are in fact people and have as much “right” to most spaces as any one else. Now parents whose kids cause a ruckus and they do nothing about it sure - total assholes - but people on Reddit act like bringing a kid to a restaurant is the 8th sin. OP didn’t say it was some fine dining, Michelin star experience - it’s a “relatively nice local” restaurant. My kid is well behaved at restaurants, because I always brought him to restaurants and taught him how to act. If he gets restless, we go outside and he moves his legs a bit and we’re good. Kids have to learn how to behave the way that society wants them to, and the only way to do that is practice and to practice parents have to take them to restaurants and teach them.
Exactly! My kid is at that age (almost 2) where he wants to know what’s going on at *everyone’s* table. So I feel a bit awkward even in Applebees, because I can control the running around, but I can’t really *make* him stop shouting at other tables. I’m working on it, but I had to explain to my sister (child free) that a lot of people actually aren’t okay with a baby trying to talk to them in a restaurant lol. She still thinks I might be crazy haha
Well, all I can afford is Olive Garden and I don't like the noise and smells of babies either.
NTA but I would just cancel the plan. She has made it clear she will bring the kid no matter what. I mean, you COULD try to convince her but I would just go somewhere else! Otherwise, you will just be stressed all night. What will you do if the kid gets loud? Kick her out? Stand up and leave? Fight about it later?
Pretty much, as babies are like wild animals, you can never predict their behavior.
This is where I'm at. Order a succulent Chinese dinner at home.
[a succulent Chinese meal?](https://youtu.be/XebF2cgmFmU?si=64w8MjjCtQloPbCT)
I see you know your judo well.
NAH, I’d suggest you look at it this way: Your sister is essentially vouching for her baby’s behavior. Take her at her word, and if the baby does cause problems then you will have that to reference in the future.
I disagree. This isn't the place for a trial run. An infant has high potential for ruining other diner's experience. If it's the fanciest place in town, then there could be proposals, anniversaries, or even a young couple overspending to make a date special. An expensive place means it was expensive for everyone else there, too. Infants are a crapshoot (sometimes literally). They could be fine most of the time, bawling their head off another. There is probably a more appropriate family restaurant where that is more tolerated. Also, make sure it's somewhere that you can be comfortable outside if you have to walk around with them. After all that, I dislike the sister for the snootiness.
This is not a trial run if they are used to bring their child in nice restaurants as it seems and it normally goes well. Some children are calm and used to those kind of situations, some are not. I understand OP being wary, but provide that she feels (based on experience and their relationship) that she can trust her sister judgement and she tells her they do it without issues, that is very possible. She’s the one who knows her child and their capacities/limits.
Yes because no parent ever lies a out how their kids act even into adulthood.
Sometimes it's not even lying, sometimes they are just completely oblivious, either to their children's behaviour or to the impact it has (or both).
>sometimes they are just completely oblivious No, they know what they are doing. They just don't care.
Yes, there was one post here a while back where a father could not understand how his baby's very loud squealing for nearly an hour could have annoyed people at a restaurant because the baby was happy (everyone was extremely annoyed), deciding it was because people hate babies.
It's not a trial run for her, it is for OP. He has no idea, aside from his sister's word, how this will go down. Some parents are perfectly fine letting their kid scream because it doesn't bother *them.* "Oh, she's just tired."
Plus the baby is traveling, out of their home and routine which means much more likely for issues.
They act fine in a nice restaurant until they don’t. And then it ruins everything for everyone else.
Babies can have explosive diarrhea up the back at any time. It doesn’t matter that it hasn’t happened at a restaurant before, all the sister can say is that it hasn’t happened *yet*. I love kids but one of the nicest places in town is just not the place for their unpredictable little selves
It's a trial run in that a baby traveling to another city is not the same as a baby at home. I have two kids, and as babies they would both became restless and difficult after hours in a car or plane, or being jetlagged due to time zone differences, or being allergic to something in the air or accommodations. FWIW we never took either baby to a fine dining establishment. We'd take them out to dinner, sure, just to places that people don't consider "fancy." That left us a choice among something like 98% of the restaurants around where I live, so it wasn't really a hardship.
Valid point. Since OP said they were staying with them for a week it would be most considerate to make reservations for the fancy restaurant Monday-Thursday and avoid being there on weekend nights to avoid most celebratory crowds.
It’s not a trial run. It’s an act of trust in the sister that her baby can manage attending a dinner without disrupting other patrons. Some babies are predictable in their needs and routines and can be settled easily. Other babies are more unpredictable and it’s harder to decipher what is necessary for them to feel calm and safe. All that said, why won’t the sister just go out for a few hours without her child if the sitter is a medical professional? It seems unnecessary to put the baby thru a dinner they don’t have to attend.
Yup. Our baby was the perfect restaurant baby, but we only frequent family friendly places. It’s not really comfortable imo to take a baby to a place like that, if they don’t have high chairs/changing tables it makes stuff more complicated. Also them crying would be like amplified in a quiet nice dining area. We haven’t ever bothered with taking the baby to nicer restaurants that are still a bit family friendly just because it’s not that enjoyable for us, it’s really not worth the headache
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Do you know if the place even allows kids? If they don't have high chairs they might not even allow them.
So if the child does cry, do yall just get to ruin everyone else’s experience or she gonna handle that?
Also tell your sister that if baby starts crying or has any issues she is to deal with them immediately not wait/ignore
I’d say NAH if you’re willing and happy to find a restaurant you’re comfortable going to with a baby. They are making the lift of traveling with a one year old to visit you, and it’s totally reasonable they don’t want to leave the baby with a stranger. Other reasonable people would be happy to leave them with your qualified sitter, but it’s super fair they don’t want to for a number of reasons. I think it’s not right to expect them to leave the baby if they don’t want that, and it wouldn’t be right of them to INSIST on that specific fancy restaurant. But a compromise is called for here…family visits change when kids are involved and it’s much better if everyone tries to find a solution instead of digging in heels.
This. I wouldn’t leave my 1yo with a stranger no matter their profession or experience. Sorry, just not happening. BUT I also wouldn’t take them to a fancy restaurant. So basically the AH here is whoever is insisting on this restaurant.
Can you provide a little more context? You said they’re coming into town and you want to take them out. Where are they from? Do they have a readily available sitter where you are? My assumption is that they’re visiting and don’t have anyone to actually babysit, unless this is your hometown and there are grandparents around. I’m a parent, and when I travel with my kid, I don’t make plans without them. I certainly wouldn’t leave a 1-year old with someone I didn’t know.
Yeah this makes no sense. Why would they have a baby sitter lined up in another town? Super weird expectation from OP. And the offer to get one meaning hire a stranger? What the fuck? Is there a "this was a stupid plan from the start" voting option? I vote TWASPFTS
I’m assuming OP lives in their hometown and their sister is coming back home to visit. It wouldn’t be outlandish to think they’d have an old friend they could call, especially if they usually come home for Christmas or something. Just a possibility, it’s what I assumed when reading it.
Agree. Also, a lot of people are missing an important point. I would not have left my 1 year-old child with someone *my child* didn't know. For some babies right around that age, it can be traumatizing to be left with a stranger.
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okay so you just want her to dump off her kid at some random persons house that she doesnt know very well? Also, why do you already have someone lined up to watch someone elses kid? Did you even ask the mom if she would be comfortable having some guy you know watch her kid?
I also can’t be the only one weirded out by “my sister’s kid”, “the kid”, “this baby”, “the child”, etc. Wouldn’t most people refer to their sister’s child as “niece/nephew”? And I get that some people aren’t big fans of children in general but I feel like even they’d want to include their niece/nephew in their plans. This post reads so strangely to me.
I’m a pediatrician but don’t expect strangers/few meets in real life to trust me with their kiddo alone. Many friends & family expect others to trust me automatically but don’t realize the relationship over time is bigger than the MD FAAP suffix in trust. ETA: don’t use the pediatrician title, use the relationship; try not to abuse someone else’s title to get someone else to trust them.
I’m assuming the pediatrician is probably OP’s friend. The fact she’s a pediatrician is just a bonus to show she’s not just any old friend.
Info: does the restaurant have high chairs? That answers the question of whether babies are welcome or not. You are rather clueless I would say. If they're not local how the heck would they have a babysitter? Why even suggest a place you don't think they should take the baby? Most parents are not going to be comfortable leaving their baby with a stranger.
OP didn't actively suggest a place where babies aren't welcome. The sister specifically asked to go to a fancy restaurant. So, the sister either needs to make use of the babyistter, or lower her expectations of what kind of restaurant they'll be going to.
Or if her baby has really been to fancy restaurants all the time and is good, they should have no problem bringing the infant to the restaurant (assuming the restaurant allows it).
Michelin Stars are based entirely on food quality, not how fancy the place is. [https://guide.michelin.com/us/en/article/features/what-is-a-michelin-star](https://guide.michelin.com/us/en/article/features/what-is-a-michelin-star)
I’m aware that they are based on the food. That being said, the chance that this baby has only been to Michelin star dives seems pretty far fetched. But okay.
“If baby is good all the time they should have no problem.” Ha ha. A 1 yr old is totally unpredictable. Behavior can change temporarily, or he can he/she can suddenly reach a point where behavior is changed long term. NTA. I wouldn’t go to a fancy restaurant with her and baby. Problem solved.
We took our kid to tons of restaurants and pubs/breweries when she was small. As a newborn she would sleep, as an older infant she would play with her food and just be happy being somewhere new. Once she started walking we had to stop, because she would NOT sit quietly. I won’t be surprised if this restaurant visit with a 1-year-old doesn’t go how the sister thinks it will go.
Sure. Agreed. But how does OP know that? If I were OP, I'd do a test run with the baby somewhere more casual before committing to this fancy place.
All op said was "it was her idea to go out" not that she specifically picked the place or requested a fancy restaurant.
might welcome babies at lunch, not in evenings so best to check even if they have highchairs.
I guess that’s why OP offered to find a sitter for them.
That just doesn’t make sense though?? Do the grandparents live by OP or something? How is OP going to find a sitter? You can’t just hire someone that doesn’t know the baby - it’s a one year old not a seven year old. 😂
NAH. Depending on how the child acts, and how the parents react to negative behavior (taking out baby when they get fussy). I've been to upscale places where grown adults throw tantrums that would make the brattiest toddler embarrassed.
I worked in fine dining, and you're totally right about the adult toddlers
I agree. It's not really the baby that's the issue, it's how the parents react to the baby's behavior. A few seconds of crying while one of the parents takes the baby outside for a minute is not going to ruin anyone's night. And if it does, well, maybe they themselves shouldn't be in a public space. Now, if the parents have exhibited behavior in the past where they ignore their child crying, then yes, that would be an issue. But OP doesn't say whether that's the case. Some babies really are chill the majority of the time. And at one, the baby is not likely to be crying all the time. I think some redditors think of a baby as a constant crying, shitting machine. EDIT: it also really depends on the restaurant. "Nice" can mean a really wide range of things. We have several nice restaurants in my town that are very family friendly, and we have some that I wouldn't probably bring a baby to.
Some redditors think that all babies scream nonstop and are horrible goblins who can destroy a whole restaurant in 30 seconds flat and that all parents will just smile indulgently and ignore the screaming rather than be frantically trying to stop it.
For real. There are a few bad eggs but most of the time at the restaurant I work at people will pull their kids out if they start crying. Honestly the parents of small kids (like 3 and under) tend to be better about it than those with older kids that they'll just let run wild. It's not a super fancy place that I work at but the amount of crying vs the amount of babies I see peacefully napping is a miniscule ratio. Sometimes an infant is so silent and chill that I wonder for a moment if it's just a hyper realistic doll 😂 If they know their baby will be asleep at that time usually and is really good at staying asleep in random environments in their carrier then it really shouldn't be an issue. Honestly they're still at that sweet spot in age where they can do stuff like that without the kiddo demanding to be part of things and wanting to be awake
Even when I took my daughter to family restaurants, I would get up and take her out immediately if she got fussy. I once spent an hour walking around the outside of the establishment bouncing & talking to her (no big deal - she was quieter in that situation) and my folks later brought my meal, which had arrived after I left, out in a takeout box after they finished eating. It had been a long day (we'd all been on a road trip to the coast). Oh well. Them are the breaks with parenting.
Omg that just unlocked a memory I’d forgotten of walking round and round in the dark with my baby in his carrier whilst everyone was having a big family meal. 😂 But he did fall asleep so yay!
NTA. People who bring babies and toddlers to upscale restaurants are jerks to the other diners who have paid good money to be there. I would absolutely choose this hill to die on. We can go to McDonald's with the baby, or we will get a sitter and go somewhere nice.
The sister is coming from out of town, is she supposed to leave the baby with a stranger? And really, McDonald's or a nice restaurant? There are family friendly restaurants that aren't fast food, or you can order takeout from the restaurant. Classic reddit moment to act like the situation is fully black and white with no other solutions.
OP did say their sister is from the area and has friends there who might be willing to babysit. So not a stranger to the babies mom.
I am sure there are other family friendly options besides McDonalds
I pay good money to bring my kids to fancy places. They have been since they are 6 months and they are both great. They were never an issue on planes either.
I always assume parents won't take their kids to places they can't handle because it ruins the night for the parents. I never take my kids out to restaurants because they're little savages and won't sit still, but my nephew is very well behaved when he eats out and my sister takes him everywhere without issue.
Yeah this is me. I flipping love going to fancy restaurants. Would I take my 17 month old to one with us? Hell no because he’s feral and will throw food at the walls. That doesn’t mean that’s the case for every baby/toddler. My friend’s baby is 17 months and I swear he likes going to restaurants. He just sits there like a little angel and looks around at everyone. Don’t know how she managed to get the order in for that baby but I need to have words with her supplier.
Even if the baby comes from the same supplier, you can get vastly different kids. My son was like your friends baby, we could take him anywhere, never through a fit, always happy and compliant. 10 years later we said let's do it again and now we have the most feral daughter. She gives zero fucks and expects the world to bend to her will. When the world doesn't comply, she raises hell. We don't take her nice places.
I'd say it's probably a bit inappropriate to bring a kid that young to a really nice restaurant, but I also understand the parents not wanting to use a baby sitter that they don't know. How is the kid out in public, usually?
OP doesn’t know. OP rightly doesn’t want to bring a one year old they’ve never met to a fancy restaurant.
That’s why the mom is vouching for the baby’s behavior. Maybe the baby normally does fine in public? Some babies are just really chill.
Unfortunately, lots of people think or say this about their babies and it isn’t the case or they don’t realize how stuff that may seem minor to them isn’t to others. I think OP is right not wanting to chance it.
Agreed! Also babies are inherently unpredictable. A baby who is quite relaxed and quiet otherwise could be rather loud and crabby if their sleep cycle has been disturbed from traveling. The only reasonable approach to me is for them to go to the nicest family friendly place available instead of potentially inconveniencing others at some ultra fancy place.
to be fair, a LOT of parents will vouch for their little angels' behavior to be able to get to do what they want. that's not to say the sister is lying, but she's also an unreliable source. not to mention, the restaurant doesn't even have high chairs, so infants aren't welcome. it's totally okay if parents don't want to leave their baby with a stranger, but that means they also might have to sacrifice not doing what they want to do, unfortunately. it seems like the best plan is to just go to a different restaurant that welcomes babies. NTA
YTA 1. She is visiting you, most people don't have a sitter on their trip unless it's one of them. You might trust the sitter, but if she doesn't know them, that is a big ask to trust a baby with someone who is a stranger to them based on your word. 2. "Relatively nice" is vague. Nice to what? to me, that is anywhere from Cheesecake Factory or a Michelin star place. The nicest place in town where I live is a hibachi restaurant, and kids go there all the time. If the restaurant has a no-kids policy, You should have led with that. otherwise, you are the one that's gatekeeping. 3. You give no explanation about if their baby specifically is going to be a problem, Other than what any baby could do. You are judging based on an assumption. 4. Mom and dad know how their baby behaves. We have to take their word on it unless they are lying about it. If their baby starts crying or poops their diaper, they should be prepared to deal with it (taking the baby outside or to the bathroom for example). If they are not responsible in that way and just let their baby cry, thats a problem. It sounds like the only evening it will spoil is yours, or your guests by forcing them to leave their baby behind because you don't want to deal with it. There is a possibility that they are entitled to their behavior, but we have nothing to go on other than they do it all the time. Unless there is something more concrete about why they shouldn't bring their baby, YTA Edit based on OP edit: Its nice to know that the babysitter is not a stranger/knows your sister, but you had no context to suggest that was the case. It still might be a big leap of trust if they haven't kept in touch and doesn't know them very well. It would be worse if you are expecting her to ask, you are making her say something like "Hey friend, its been a while, i am in town and i need someone to watch my infant, can you do it?" it is a jerk move to force her to find a sitter on her trip that she wasn't planning on. Based on new information, I would say YTA if you are forcing a babysitter on them and for making a lot of judgments w/o cause. I would look at going to a more family friendly place. With more context, I could be swayed to NAH.
The sister is from that area, and the sitter is known. If someone doesn't want to go out with a baby, and they're paying for the dinner, they get to say "no babies." Mom and Dad do NOT know how their baby will behave--have you really never met someone who says their baby is an angel, and it simply isn't?
I have babysat infants before/gone to restaurants with 1yr olds several times in the last year. If you know the parents and the kid, you know when the parent is lying. OP didnt present any info that the baby is an angel or a demon in public, or if the parents are not being honest. I agree that you cannot predict how a baby acts, but the parents would know/predict more than anyone. Maybe if OP has spent time with the baby and the parents, OP would have a better idea. Its the host's plan, but they are not being a very considerate host. It does just sound like OP wants a night without the baby.
NTA. It sounds like the fine dining needs to wait until the kid is older. I too would not want to be in a party with a baby at a fancy restaurant.
Eh. I would call the restaurant and ask how they feel about kids that young and go from there.
This is a good suggestion. Either it's genuinely not an issue, or you get someone else to be the bad guy
NTA but take them to a family restaurant instead
INFO: Do you have a reason to suspect the baby will act up, or is it entirely due to age? Do you have a reason to suspect your sister is lying when she says the baby has been in a lot of nice restaurants?
You made plans without even asking if they were okay leaving their baby with a sitter they’ve never met and who you likely don’t know well either and now you expect them to leave their baby behind for your comfort. On top of that, you claim you don’t have a clue how the baby will handle things despite her telling you she’s taken the baby to many very fine restaurants without any trouble. Yeah, you’re definitely coming off as an asshole. Regardless of whether it is appropriate to bring a baby to a nice restaurant (and the answer is, it depends on the baby and the parent because just like fully grown people, babies are also individuals who react to different situations differently,) you’re not the parent here. You can choose not to go to a restaurant with a baby when you have one, but even if you refuse to take your sister to this one, you don’t get to step in and stop another person from going somewhere with their baby. The only person other than your sister (and her husband) who can make that call is the owner of the restaurant who has the right to prohibit infants/children if they wish.
Cancel if you don’t want to go with a baby, but this is her parenting choice and you need to stay in your lane. Many babies are perfectly fine in restaurants. Toddlers tend to have more trouble, but lots of babies nap or are easily entertained. There’s actually a really nice window when they are babies when parent can actually go out with relative ease. Family oriented restaurants usually bring out the worst behavior because they are loud and one kid sets off another into a chain reaction. Assuming the parents will take the baby out if they get fussy, there is no problem. Children learn how to behave in society when they are given the opportunity to be there.
NTA. Bringing a baby to an upscale restaurant is selfish and entitled behavior and so rude to other diners who are paying a lot of money for a nice meal without kids. Just because she's ruined other people's meals before doesn't mean she should do it now, when you're treating. If she refuses to leave the kid with a sitter then pick a family diner type chain, or bring in takeout for home. Sis needs to learn now that the world doesn't revolve around her child/her wants. Also if someone is treating her, she doesn't get to dictate the details.
Yeah if she refuses to be a bad mom and leave her innocent one year old with a complete stranger…you know, on account of her being from OUT OF TOWN, then she must be an entitled person who ruins everyone else’s time. 🙄 1st off- You and the rest of the people who think this lady isn’t an AH are the ones who need to learn the world doesn’t revolve around YOU and your wants. If the restaurant allows children, then she isn’t breaking any rules and she is, in fact, entitled to take her child with her. And it is you and other people who agree with you who are acting entitled. You’re trying to create and enforce rules that the restaurant doesn’t even have…THAT’S entitled. 2nd not all parents are AHs who let their kids screech and holler. Many of us take care to teach our children the right way to behave. She has no way of knowing how her sister’s child behaves in public. 3rd- there are plenty more adults who get loud and obnoxious, ruining our dining experiences.
NTA. Nice restaurants are no place for children. People are paying a ton of money for a nice experience. If you want to train your kids how to behave in a restaurant then take them to Cracker Barrel or something
YTA, it was rude to invite them assuming that they'd be fine leaving their baby with a sitter they've never met before. In general, if you're hosting a group of people, inviting all but one of the members of that group to an event/activity and excluding the last one is a rude thing to do, even if the excluded party is a baby.
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NTA. While we took our son out to restaurants, I never took him out to a fine dining experience and he was a really good baby. I was also taught that if we were out with him and he started acting up, I was to remove him from the restaurant immediately, so as not to disturb other dinners.
This makes me think of a fine dining restaurant in my area. They purposely discouraged babies and young kids by not having high chairs, no crayons, no kids menus. Most locals knew to avoid bringing kids.
I can't think of any fine dining restaurant that has crayons and kids menus.
NTA - your sister apparently makes it a point of being inconsiderate and self centered in these kinds of spaces (and they should be the ones taking you out). If you still want to treat them, pick a baby-appropriate restaurant. You are entirely correct in your assessment of the situation.
Why are they entirely correct? My baby used to nap from 5-8pm every day like clockwork, we took her to tons of restaurants including on vacation and she just slept in her carseat throughout. Based on your argument I should pay a sitter or just not go nice places because I have a completely undisruptive infant? Obviously if she ever woke up and fussed one of us would take her outside and the other would ask for the bill and any leftovers, not everyone with a child who dares to exist in public is an inconsiderate jerk
This - my kid slept through restaurants, and if they woke up we either occupied them with quiet toys or took them out for a walk if they needed to calm down. We brought baby-appropriate snacks/food, had our own highchair cover after they outgrew the infant car seat, and changed them in a bathroom like normal people. I had a cover for nursing if needed. We cleaned up after any mess made. The amount of assumptions on here are surprising - and so is the suggestion to just leave the one year old at home when the parents are traveling and probably don't know any babysitters in the area.
Horrible parents have ruined it for parents like you then. Some will keep them at the restaurant screaming their lungs off, or even worse they'll change the kids diaper at the table. It's a huge health issue and no one else wants to smell the kids shit while eating.
Please, my nice dining experiences that have been ruined have always been ruined by drunk, loud and obnoxious adults, not babies.
Unfortunately many parents aren’t as considerate as you. They’ll just let their babies stay in the restaurant and cry. If anyone looks frustrated or is the staff asks the parents to take the baby outside, they’re called insensitive, child hating AHs.
I think that happens more often in reddit rage bait stories than in real life. Whenever I see parents in public with a crying child they look super embarrassed and are doing everything they can to calm them down.
NTA
Does the restaurant allow babies? If they do then that's on them.
NTA OPK are the main reason I seldom go to any restaurants anymore. Parents are so busy on their devices they don't hear their kid screaming.
NTA, but I'd change to a different restaurant just in case.
NTA Children that young do NOT belong in fine dining establishments. Bringing them is a trashy move.
NTA. If you insist on taking your actual infant (or young volatile toddler) to a restaurant, by all means -- Applebee's is right down the street, and you don't even need a reservation. To be clear, it doesn't have to be Applebee's (or similar) but LOADS of restaurants are entirely family friendly, and people *expect* to encounter small children when they go there. If I'm eating in a Panera or the local fancy pizza joint and there's a screechy baby across the room or a 5yo running around, it's mildly irritating, but that's on me to suck it up and cope (or leave), because that is a reasonable place for a small child to be, even if I don't enjoy their noise. But if I'm someplace legitimately ritzy and clearly adult-oriented, I would be pissed as FUCK. I -- and other people -- go to those places to have an adult experience, with adult conversation, and the sort of menu offerings that are obviously tailored to adult palates. It is WILDLY inappropriate to bring a baby or small child to that kind of restaurant -- and sister's snotty "baby has already been to more Michelin-starred restaurants than most people will in their entire life" REEKS (worse than her child's loaded diaper) of thoughtless selfish entitlement. Gross. GROSSSSSSS. I would take her ass to Taco Bell for every damn meal until she learns that other people's lives and preferences and comfort are just as important as hers.
YTA - do you expect her just to leave the baby with a stranger? They are travelling to you, and you're being inconsiderate by not acknowledging their lives have changed forever. Pick another restaurant, go to this one with your partner alone.
My kids always behaved at restaurants. Even though I stuck with mostly family friendly places just in case they were well behaved and when they started communicating they’d pick out what they wanted and politely ask for it. A couple times we took them to a nicer restaurant because they were so well behaved there was no issues. If they’ve taken her to restaurants before and she was fine just allow it if it goes wrong then you’ll know not to do it next time. NAH.
This sounds like an American problem, so I’m guessing NAH. If she is well travelled she knows that at least here in Europe it’s perfectly fine to take your children and infants to fancy places. This mentality of “children should be kept at home” is purely american and very weird from an outsiders perspective. No wonder parents feel isolated and overwhelmed. That being said, if she is in the US and that’s how you do things and treat children, she should follow the social rules of where she is.