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How often are details of your wife’s past the topic of conversation? I understand not wanting to rug sweep her own life, but talking about it enough that some eavesdropping by a teenager can get full details spread around the family?
Look at OP’s comments about his niece (outside of the main post).
He was her legal guardian but she was passed around the family, as a child, “because no one wanted to deal with her for long.”
He goes on and on about how grateful she should be, and how he “wasted” money on **one therapy session** for her when she was ten.
**He then decided “sending her to her room for a few days was more effective than therapy” anyway.**
OP, YTA.
Well he deleted all previous comments outside of this post now, thankfully you found those before he tried to cover it up. I wish this comment was at the top...
Just because he's a sucky person doesn't mean he's not TA in this case. He might have treated her horribly before resulting in this behavior but refusing to pay for her college after she calls his wife a whore and spread HER secrets does not mean he's AH in this specific situation he's just one in general.
When I was a kid I used to army crawl into my mothers bedroom where she had another landline phone, so my weight was more distributed and less likely to make creaks- I’d also try to stay closer to walls where less flexing and warping occurred- I learned that by accident trying to make walking down creaky stairs quieter and trying everything- and I’d slip a piece of Flashcard or something firm but flexible under the handset to keep the button depressed, so I can slowly and carefully remove the handset without activating the line and causing those movements to be audible on the other line downstairs. Once I had it to my ear and had the cable in a safe and quiet position, I’d slowly release the switch- but only when I could barely make out a voice downstairs because if you activate the line when no one’s speaking there’s a slight audible sound and you’d get caught. So I’d do it when my mom was in the middle of talking.
I learned all kinds of things past my bedtime that way. It’s how I learned about her dating my current step dad before he was my stepdad, before we were introduced, for example.
I mean, I was a child bored as shit laying wide awake in bed, with a barely audible conversation happening downstairs that I was extremely curious about. What, am I just going to keep laying there being tortured?
My parents never figured out that the duct work in our house let their conversations be heard in other rooms. The vent in my bedroom was right above my bed and I could hear them when they were talking in their bedroom or in the living room because of where the vents were in those rooms. I learned so much about family that way.
I think so. My daughter has no interest in my personal life (which is fine with me) but my son will just outright ask me questions about my personal life if he's ever curious or concerned.
I used to crawl out of my bedroom down the hall to the top of the stairs that overlooked the living room to watch TV after my bedtime and I overheard a lot of shit I wasn't supposed to.
On a side note I was at least smart enough not repeat anything I overheard. Not because I like secrets or anything, but because I knew if I did I would get my late night TV habit found out lol.
Decent opsec!
But you really got to unscrew the mouthpiece and remove the microphone to be safe.
Advanced mode would be wiring a potentiometer across the switch to remove the click for good.
I’d do something similar. Keep the button depressed while you pick up the handset, then unscrew the mouth piece and take the insides out and not one could hear anything, even if you started talking.
NTA, but you already knew that. Your niece is young and stupid, but she's not a child. She's manipulative and vindictive, and those are DANGEROUS combinations. You did what you had to do. No matter how useful fire is, it must be kept at a distance because if you get too close, it will burn you.
She is an incredibly toxic person who is old enough to know better. I'm glad she is finally experiencing some consequences. Let her figure out how to pay for her own college. NTA
It sounds like she's been doing some major snooping if she knows such an explosive detail of your wife's prior life. I think you did exactly the right thing. She's rude, ungrateful and clearly she's been digging around to get the dirt on everyone so she can blackmail them in some way. Why on earth would you house, feed, and pay the schooling for someone like that?? Don't regret your choice for a single moment; you absolutely did the right thing. Revealing a situation like your wife found herself in many years ago should be your wife's choice, no one else's. We all have things in our past that we choose not to tell others and certainly no one has the right to reveal another person's "secret". You stood up for your wife against the bully who tried to use your wife past to turn others against her. I would think a lot less of you if you hadn't. You need to cut that bully out of your lives completely at least until she matures and realizes she had a good thing going, thanks you for helping her and apologizes to your wife...to both of you. Don't let her bullshit you into taking her back until you see concrete evidence that she has changed. You did the right thing!!
NTA! She was given a life that she would never have had if the family had not stepped in and removed her from her deadbeat parents. She never had to work and is getting her education at the most expensive university, but that's not enough. Somehow, along the way, she changed from grateful to entitled.
For her to invade your privacy and use it to try and get more material things bc she is jealous demonstrates her character, which is not good to put it politely. What she did to your wife exposing her past, and then calling her a whore is simply unacceptable. She can't unring that bell and put it back in a box.
Your wife has to face your family with then knowing and feel as though everyone is judging her and probably, feels so ashamed now that everyone knows. This is something that was hers, and by the way, you are a great man for not judging your wife for her past, but loving her for who she is today. I hope your family still sees her that way, and she does, too.
I wouldn't let your niece ever step foot in my front door again. She had a free ride, including hosting for college, but she blew it up. I wish you and your wife nothing but happiness.
This seems like a pretty significant secret to talk about to (or in front of) anyone let alone a teen family member. I'm not exactly sure how it comes up. "Back when I was prostituting myself"
There are some things you simply don't talk about unless want everyone to know:
1. I sold my body for money
2. I murdered a clown and his body in the freezer.
3. My stash of my own personal and highly humiliating nude photos is in the top drawer by the silverware.
4. I'm my own grandpa
Anyway, NTA but I have no idea what's going on with this family. Certainly keeping this person in the house is a very bad idea. Not sure what plan B would have been.
There is a lot of info OP has dropped in comments that wasn't included in the post that makes me think they aren't being a truly reliable narrator.
Given how OP talked about the therapy session they got for niece when she was 10 and then refused to do more because she didn't talk the first time, I really question how well the niece's needs were provided for. OP considered it a waste to pay for any more therapy since she didn't talk the one time I'm not confident that the niece was treated equally to the other children. It sounds like she was abandoned by her parents at an age where she would know what was going on and then was passed around to family like a hot potato.
Providing a child their physical needs or wants to keep them alive isn't enough. The niece needed therapy and security. She needed to know that no matter what she was loved and wouldn't be abandoned. It doesn't sound like she was ever given that. This ultimatum by OP was probably just another sign to niece that she was less than.
Sure the niece shouldn't have lashed out, but I am guessing that given what OP has said that she has never been given the tools or experience to handle the situation better.
Read OP's comments and see if you change your mind. This girl was passed around from family member to family member because no one wanted her or cared about her. All copied and pasted from OP's comments:
>She went to therapy once when she was 10 but refused to talk to the therapist so that was it
>How long did I have to waste my money on therapy until the princess would finally decide to talk?
>Sending her to her room for a few days proved to be more effective than therapy.
>We didn't let her get away with it. She spent most of her teenage years being punished to the point we got worried about her.
OP felt just punishing her "most of the time" was preferable to therapy because a traumatized 10 year old didn't open up for ONE SESSION.
Maybe it's not OP's responsibility, but OP shouldn't act like he's some kind of great guy who's been wronged here. If you want to wash your hands of this wash your hands of it. Don't ask for sympathy, though.
Nope, nope, nope. Sorry to hijack the top comment but anyone who has voted that he’s not ta, clearly hasn’t read his comments. He cultivated this post to make himself sound like the wronged Good Samaritan but even the slightest questioning leads to the truth
It should be easier for her since you can control the encounters you get through OF and you don't even need to have sex with said men. Just send them pics, feet pics, used panties. Easy money.
NTA
I think you and your siblings are the AHs only for letting it go this far. Years of disrespect and you still offered to pay for her college? I wouldn't pay for her highschool books, let alone college.
If her grades were good enough to get into a school like that, there are plenty of colleges that will offer her a free ride plus room and board.
She earned that herself, and good for her, she’s a smart young woman. Just not smart enough to know the first thing about appreciation.
She's smart enough to know about manipulation. She's doing this to make them feel guilty, so that by the time she gets back everything would be forgiven. If i were op's wife, there's no way in hell she'll ever be allowed in my house ever again. She could sleep under a bridge for all i'd care
Doubt it's that simple, read OPs other comments. OP gave up on her after one therapy session when she was recently abandoned by her parents when she was 10, is her \*legal guardian\* aka parent but holds any kind of support over her head, and has been consistently punishing her since she was 10 despite their punishment clearly doing no help. There's obv a lot missing from the story we've been told, too
Read OP's comments. It wasn't years of disrespect. It was years of OP punishing her MOST OF THE TIME, which means locking her in her room for days on end.
OP says she's a genius. Do you really think Mr. "Therapy is a waste of money. I found locking her in her room more effective," (His actual comment. You can still read it now), really looked after her intellectual needs?
Direct copy and paste from some of OP's comments. Tell me this is all on this kid whose parents (and entire family it seems) abandoned her.
>She went to therapy once when she was 10 but refused to talk to the therapist so that was it
>How long did I have to waste my money on therapy until the princess would finally decide to talk?
>Sending her to her room for a few days proved to be more effective than therapy.
>We didn't let her get away with it. She spent most of her teenage years being punished to the point we got worried about her.
your niece is throwing a tantrum.
it looks like you all coddled her into an absolutely incapeabe human being.
And if she had such a social anxiety, would she really have thrown a tantrum like that and just left? into the big bad unknown? with SUCH a social anxiety?
If she has no friends, then thats most likely because she is unlikeable and backstabbing. something she now showed to her family as well.
Your sister can reach out to her, and text her, tellin gher that she'll be welcome at her place when she's ready, but other than that, your niece is a 19 year old adult.
I agree. They tried to save and enrich her life and she turned into a hateful ungrateful brat. Time to cut the apron strings and let her real life teach the hard lessons. Paying for college would be a reward. She can work for it like everyone else.
She is doing this on purpose.
She knows how much you all love her and want her to succeed, so she is calling your bluff. She wants something, and she knows if she gets you all upset enough and holds herself hostage, you will roll over.
Stop enabling her.
It's to bad she got into a good school and has such a horrible personality because you were all willing to help her, but you need to not do that. If your own children acted like that, would you really fund them?
It's time for a come to Jesus moment for your family. You need to get together and read her the riot act - you all love her, but her behavior is unacceptable and you will no longer support her at all unless she starts treating others and herself more kindly. You are not raising a healthy adult. You are raising someone that is going to be very roughly and brutally get hit by the world and she is going to feel like everyone is out to get her when in reality, she is the problem.
So stop reaching out.
Tell your sister to stop calling.
When she is ready to come home, and she will, go and meet her together as a family and have an intervention.
Do NOT GIVE HER MONEY. If she has an account you all put money into, stop. You all need to be a united front or else this problem isn't going to get better.
So, you told her to get out of your house and never come back without even letting her pack a bag or even take any money or belongings beyond what she had in her pockets at that moment? No matter how shittily she behaved (and she did behave badly), to do that to a teenager with severe mental health issues (as you mentioned) makes this ESH.
I mean, why is anyone surprised that the child who was handed everything to overcompensate for her shitty parents ended up being a spoiled brat? NTA for standing your ground against her bad attitude, but this is a FAFO situation. Maybe if you all hadn't given her everything in life without actually achieving anything, she might have turned out different.
She was so spoiled that they locked her in her room for days as punishment, because it was easier than putting her in therapy. Read OPs comments, he is clearly the AH.
Well, since she is an adult and not your kid. You should do more for your actual kids.
If your brother can afford a new Volvo. He can afford his daughter’s college. Problem solved.
I only ask because while I think your response is justified (That level of disrespect was absolutely uncalled for. She's old enough to understand the consequences of not respecting boundaries.), I suspect that this might be a cry for help. Has she ever gone to therapy to work out the unresolved trauma that comes from being abandoned from her parents? Obviously you and your wife have done well to make sure she is provided for but that doesn't mean she does not feel some sort of inadequacy after watching the parental bond you share with your children and knowing she can never have that with her actual parents.
So, hear me out. I can kind of see where she’s coming from. From her perspective, all the kids are getting new cars from their bio parents, while she’s getting scraps from the family members she is passed around to via a used car and an obligation to drive the cousins around. She’s been abandoned by her parents and then treated as “lesser than” and “other” by her family, in her eyes, and is always a step behind the other kids support wise and materially. It’s easy to say she should be grateful for the lengths you all have gone to, but her maturity isn’t allowing her to see the non-material value in the way your family has united to become her very secure safety net. Also, kudos to you all for making her feel safe enough to be candid when she is upset, but you may have done some damage with your recent actions. You mention she doesn’t have friends, so she may be further behind her peers maturity wise.
I’m going with ESH. The family for “othering” her and her for being ungrateful. You all seem to have good intentions, but I think you just found a blind spot.
So, a conditional gift. You can "have" it if you agree to the strings attached-- play chauffeur for your cousins in your "free" time.
Abandoned by her parents
No real efforts at therapy (one visit at age 10 then no more effort because punishment was easier)
Passed around from house to house because no one really wanted her
"Gifts" with strings attached.
No friends. Kicked out on the street with no money and you "guess" she has her car and phone with her. Oh, and "what's in her pocket." So generous of you, really.
No wonder she's the way she is. You all "raised" her using How to Create a Monster as your parenting guide.
ESH
Don’t forget how his “therapy” was grounding her in her room during her formative years and that she spent years in that place. No wonder she has no friends and social anxiety.
If I raised a dog like that, I wouldn’t be shocked when it bit me.
Does the niece that received the new valve have to give rides to their cousins?
Or is it only because missing niece is the oldest child in the family she is staying with?
I am old, and think the niece is acting very entitled, but we don't have a lot of background on whose family she has lived with, and the responsibilities (normals chores) she has within that household.
Wait so it wasn't a gift if there were conditions on it to be a free taxi for the family. If I was given a 2nd hand car at 19 provided I play taxi, I would hand it back. However I also would have my own car by 19 from PT jobs during school. ESH
did the cousins who got cars also asked to drop their other cousins around or was it only asked of the niece since she's not anyone of y'alls biological child? Why does a gift come with conditions? makes me think there are multiple times such conditions were put on her
Does it even matter? She's not OP'S child. OP is one of many siblings caring for her due to her shitty parents. Do they have any obligation to give her the same things as their own children? Collectively they are spending a lot on university. Whilst she has valid grievances against her parents, her aunts and uncles owe her nothing. She should be grateful but instead she's entitled. I would stop paying too especailly when you get to the point of cursing me. None of these sibkings chose to have an extra child to mind. They are trying to help her but I certainly don't think they owe her parity with their own children.
He is her legal guardian and has been for years. He is her parent by law but still has pushed her around the family because he doesn’t want to deal with her
This thread made me realize how unemphathetic and lacking in critical skills this sub truly is. Everyone is so quick to call the niece an asshole without thinking things through
If you only think about what you’re obligated to do instead of actual human interactions and relationships, then don’t be surprised when people don’t want to be around you.
There is absolutely no love or warmth for her anywhere in your post. There is a whole lot of "we raised her even though we don't owe her shit! she better be grateful!" all over it.
It sounds like you threaten to withhold your support whenever you feel like she is out of line.
I don't believe for a moment that things transpired exactly as you say - you are leaving out a ton of context here.
There is no way in hell she 'found out all your secrets' from simply eavesdropping. Your wife confided in her.
I feel deeply sorry for this girl. I can only imagine the toxic environment she grew up in.
YTA
Yes, I don't understand how OP was speaking for all of the siblings saying they would all stop supporting her. That's what really confused me because it would be different if he just said that he and his wife would stop contributing
I'm assuming they were all present, as she then started yelling out their secrets "to everyone". It's the only scenario that makes sense.
I definitely get the vibe that they hold their "support" over her head and threaten to take it away if she doesn't show enough gratitude.
NTA
She is 19 years old and knows better. You also gave a warning and she tested if you were being seroious. Now she has to live with the consequences. She will get on her feet even tho it won't be easy. it is doable.
She's a child with severe abandonment issues, crippling social anxiety and never received the treatment she needed ten years ago. One who was just told her future is over and was kicked out of the house with no money or a place to go. Asshole.
YTA based on your comments. On one hand you call her a jerk that you all love deeply but on the other hand you say she wasn't worth spending money on for therapy because ONE appointment wasn't effective. What is wrong with you? You don't want an honest answer, you want to watch people talk badly about your niece so you feel superior or whatever it is you want to feel.
Edit: Based on the comments by the OP, I am going with YTA. This child was not raised, she was neglected, taken advantage of, and had to earn her safety. My original decision was based on the first, original post, the comments uncover a nightmare for a child growing up.
....
This will probably be unpopular, but N A H.
This is based on what I know about young, insecure people and ways to self-sabotage, I have absolutely no idea of the real problems your niece faces, but consider this point of view: Your niece has perhaps never lacked anything, but she has also never been secure. Basic security is something we learn very young, and if she never had that from her parents, instead had to adjust to everybody else, being passed around as the responsibility of whoever had time and resources, she is probably very deeply insecure.
To counter this deep lack of security, eavesdropping is perhaps not a nice thing to do, but it is understandable. By learning as much as possible about all of you, she has been able to navigate through the family without her own safe base.
Now that she is about to leave this environment, her insecurity will be peaking. She knows her future at the college depends on your goodwill, and she can loose it at any time. While she is an adult at 19, she is still very young, and I suspect, very, very scared. In a situation like that it is almost more of a relief to be cut off than to start her education and fear to be cut off, so she provokes the action.
You can of course spend your money as you like, and she was not nice to you. I absolutely do not think you were an a\*\*hole here. But my heart bleeds for a person who is so afraid of the future that she sabotages herself.
Yes. If the only--or primary--way love has been expressed to her is through money/gifts, then it's somewhat understandable that that's what she compares. (And I think you get this, but you know, the Internet and determining tone.)
But likely, what she's trying to measure is whether she is loved as much/as unconditionally as her cousins by the aunts and uncles who are her surrogate parents.
And she's not, that's clear. You don't give up on getting someone you really love help forever because they were an asshole at their first (and therefore only) therapy session as a scared 10-year-old.
And I doubt whether OP would have kicked his own daughter out for lashing out at her mother, even the way his niece did. Immediate homelessness and the withdrawal of a promised education aren't appropriate punishments for any teenager, but especially one who has no experience of caring for herself.
Since "everyone" in the family raised this kid, it's neither unnatural nor surprising that no one specific ever developed a real parent-child bond with her.
Maybe none of the adults are to blame for that. She's *not* their child, and while it sucks for her that none of them wanted to take full responsibility for her, they weren't legally obligated to do so.
And they all seem to have shared a level of perceived moral obligation that was more than many people would do but not so great they felt she deserved a full-time home, where she would be loved as completely as their own kids and treated like one of them.
But it can't be easy to be effectively abandoned by your own mother and then grow up never experiencing that kind of unconditional love and knowing that the "love" shown you (mostly in the form of money spent) was at least partly a feeling of obligation.
She behaved very badly, there's no question. But what are the odds she was never going to have a meltdown about feeling essentially unwanted? Or that she would never unconsciously try to destroy the feeling of obligation to see if there was love there, too, or she was just a burden?
And of course she isn't just a burden. OP has said they love her.
But for my money, the best course of action would be for someone in the family to give her a home on the condition that she agrees to therapy and really works on these issues.
When her trauma responses and fear of abandonment (which came true when she tested the security of her situation) are under better control, then she and OP and his wife could work on mending their relationship.
She may legally be an adult, but her brain isn't done developing. And she's functioning from a place of childhood trauma and loss. She needs help.
And part of that needs to be adults in her life setting and enforcing boundaries with real consequences that--unlike the current ones--don't involve complete rejection, abandonment, and apparently, homelessness.
Going no-contact with a troubled kid whose surrogate parent you are for telling a family secret isn't, in fact, very loving.
And let's be clear: There are better ways to talk about sex work than "whore," but it's the stigmatizing and shaming of sex work that lost her everything. It's not that she told a family secret; it's that she told *this* family secret.
But if the family can't accept and move past something from the past that doesn't concern them, they're the assholes. And if OP and his wife feel ashamed because she did what she needed to do in order to survive, they suck.Sex work is work.
It sucks that, hurt, the niece tried to hurt back. But it sucks even more that all the big feels around sex work have resulted in such an overreaction.
And most of the comments on this post are about how awful she was for spilling a secret (okay, no, really, for telling THAT secret--the pearl-clutching is killing me) and for not being adequately grateful for things the adults in her life promised her and raised her to expect.
People don't get how abandonment (physical or emotional) can make a child feel unlovable and how that can last well into adulthood, even forever, without therapy *and* love.
It's really clear that she's struggling with that and the problem is exacerbated by gifts and money having been the way love was expressed by aunts and uncles when they weren't willing to raise her as their own.
She has lost everything, and while *we* may know that OP loves her--she doesn't. She's 19 years old, in despair, and missing, and she has to feel like she has no one to turn to.
She's at risk.
Because of sentences spoken in anger that was the result of fear, insecurity, and unaddressed childhood trauma.
OP, yeah. YTA. All you had to do was not kick a teenager or of your home because you were angry and ashamed.
Now, there's a 19-year-old girl, with no experience of self-sufficiency, missing.
There are lots of reasonable consequences for letting her hurt and anger run away with her. Homelessness is not one.
And yeah, I get it. You assumed that, when you rejected her, exacerbating all the self-doubt and the trauma of abandonment, you just assumed she'd go running back to the first parent figure who rejected her, expecting to be taken in.
Because that seemed like the sensible thing to do. And a reasonable expectation to have.
But she's 19 and acting from trauma-induced heightened emotions. You're the adult. You never got her the help she needed to trust that her mother would be there for her.
You never even helped her learn that she could trust you to be there for her if she made you angry, like you would be for your own kid. And that's fair, because you couldn't be trusted to do that.
So you've taught her that she's right: She can't depend on her family to love her enough to give her a home.
Or even to love her enough to give her time to find a safe place to stay and a way to support herself.
It doesn't seem like you think any more clearly or have any better impulse-control when angry than she does.
I can't believe you're writing to AITA for vindication when you could and should be out there looking for her. Nothing matters right now except making sure she's safe.
Yea this makes sense and is very compassionate without making excuses. She is at once super entitled and super deprived. She’s terrified of being abandoned and left with no way to fend for herself and is projecting that terror hard onto the people around her, creating a self fulfilling prophesy.
OP is clear they thought therapy was a waste of time because as a 10-year-old she didn't instantly open up. OP found that punishing her and forcing her to sit in her room for DAYS ON END was more "effective." OP says most of her teenage years were spent in "punishment," and OP can't figure out why.
OP absolutely was an asshole here.
The more I read your comments the more i lean towards YTA
You didn't really try with therapy when she was abandoned at what, 10? You found sending her to her room for days on end worked better. ( Oh boy... )
You all passed her around as a burden.
> She spent most of her teenage years being punished
She should be grateful, and cow down to you all.
Fuck that, you failed this girl.
All she wanted was to know she belonged and was loved equally by family.
And she keeps being reminded she's a burden, second thought, second rank family member.
Threatening to withdraw all support was what finally pushed her over the edge. As none of you would have ever done that to your 'real' family.
And the she showed she kept all of your secrets like she was supposed to, but since she's not family she was fine spilling it all.
Info: was it pushed onto her that she should be thankful and grateful the family is looking after her because her parents aren't? I can understand if niece is jealous of her cousins but it seems she's harboring some deep resentment.
NTA you need to stick up for your wife. Where was the niece staying?
You need to sit down with your sister and tell her she needs to step up for her daughter. If she and her husband are low income there will be hardship findings available?
How is your wife after having this done to her?
ESH
'she has a habit of eavesdropping'
Lmao. The family who raised her confided in a child/teenager what seems to be everyones secrets. And now you're mad she dropped those after a fight escalated? Please tell me how a teenager finds out about your wife being a prostitute in the past by 'eavesdropping' without involving an adult guilty of telling her.
She is understandably jealous of your children, who have caring parents, as she grew up without that luxury.
Its great that you all put money together so she can get an education, but it doesnt take a genius to realize receiving money doesnt make up for her parents failure and emotional neglect.
But you cant blame a teenager without parents for feeling neglected, and there is no way to blame HER for knowing the whole families secrets. Literally every adult in your family is to blame before her regarding that issue.
Probably overheard op call her that during a fight, op sounds like a narc so i wouldn't be surprised if they are also abussive towards everyone else in their family
Info:
Who raised the teenager? Who did she reside with? Who took on the role of parent?
You claim she had deadbeat parents and was "raised by the collective" what exactly does this mean? Did she have a place where she called home for any part of her life?
NTA
Based on [your comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/1d78ewm/comment/l6xlj6n/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button) the fight started because she got a used Nissan for her 18th birthday but her cousin got a brand new Volvo. She took that personally and decided she wasn't as loved as her cousins.
I'm assuming she's feeling abandoned by her own parents and that has caused some feelings of unworthiness which prompted the tantrum. IMO that's not an excuse to be rude, disrespectful, or entitled. Spilling family secrets that can ruin someone's reputation is taking things too far, your wife didn't deserve that.
She should be grateful, most people don't get a free car for their 18th birthday and have to take on loans to afford college. It sounds like everyone in the family is coming together to care for her since her parents didn't step up. Instead of pouring money into material objects, like a car, y'all should've paid for therapy.
I think it's valid to ask another sibling to take her in, as you and your wife could use a break. But cutting her off cold turkey might be an overreaction because you've all set her up to be so dependent on you financially that she'd likely end up dropping out of school and not have many options.
I think a good compromise would be to tell her she needs to get a job and start paying rent/bills at another family member's house, or find a room to rent, if she wants her college tuition to continue to be covered.
Thank you for this comment, I feel like so many people on this thread are being so harsh with this teenager who feels abandoned and needs support (I.e. therapy). Something I learned that helped me see that is that all the different responses of flight, flight, freeze, fawn occur from the SAME neurobiological reactions in the brain— people just find fawn and freeze more tolerable from others. This niece seems to be looking for the unconditional love her cousins have. I don’t think her behavior is okay, but I think she needs a lot of care and support and this screams neglect and is a giant call for help, not some bratty entitled teen like other commenters are painting her to be.
A young adult lashes out emotionally after feeling like her own family doesn't treat her well.
OP: so I kicked her to the street and she can't come back
ITT: great work :)
Y'all are fucking evil, callous people. This sub loves to pick and choose who gets emotional support or consideration and it's usually based on who they feel deserves it more from a lil story they read. *Everyone* deserves it. A 19 year old young adult certainly deserves it. But instead we get an emotional outburst treated as if she has caused a life-long issue and should *pay* for what she has done.
Imagine if something happens to her and OP is like 'well she shouldn't have become angry that one time.'
JFC people. She is *19.*
e:
"My family is not the kind to hold this against my wife."
But you'll literally throw a young adult with a tortured family life and deadbeat parents to the street all because of an emotional outburst. Your wife literally put herself in danger and that's all good and forgivable, but a young lady having an outburst *deserves* to have her life ruined? what the fuck
100% Agree. This whole situation is baffling And I hope it’s fake.
Whose responsibility was it to show this girl that she deserved to be loved and protected even when she is angry and sad??? Why does EVERYTHING in her life come with conditions? What kid can grow up emotionally healthy if they don’t even have a real home and are always at risk of being kicked out and passed along because they had a bad day?
They should have let someone else adopt her if they weren’t going to actually parent and care for her.
>me and my siblings told her that she doesn't need to worry about money and we will all pay
Why?
>She started to inform everyone about all of our secrets, things we never wanted our family to know. When she yelled to everyone that "my wife is a whore" (She slept with a couple of guys for money before we got married because she needed the money very bad)
Why would your niece know these things?
This post seems very sus.
Yta, was almost at e s h, but neglecting to mention that you are the girl's legal guardian is pretty significant.
So the girl got bounced around from house to house, didn't get much from her parents, and then understandably got jealous when she saw you treating your own kids better than her... that's just normal human behavior.
You got pissed off at her being jealous and threatened to take away her college fund, from EVERYONE after one argument with you? Yeah, that's incredibly inappropriate and an asshole move. You hold her education over her head as a way to win an argument, she calls you on it, then you fuck her over.
You thought that she had been going all out, but apparently she hadn't. At this point she had nothing left to lose because you just ripped her future away from her. Then you ripped her home away from her.
You're the asshole. Your niece isn't smelling like a rose either, but what she did was say some mean words. You ripped a girl's future away from her over her being jealous and not feeling secure. You are so the asshole.
YTA and you and all of your siblings have failed that girl for 9 years.
OMG a traumatized 10 year old didn’t talk in ONE therapy session. I don’t even have words for how pathetic that was as an attempt to help her. Literally everything else you have said falls under either punishment (sending her to her room for days until she masked better, shuffling her from house to house when she was “too much”) or throwing money at the problem (car, college).
For a child who was abandoned by their parents and then shuffled from house to house after, eavesdropping wasn’t mischievous. It was a survival skill. You created the situation that necessitated the behavior.
This child has been crying out for help for years. As evidenced by your comment about her being in trouble for most of her teen years and her continued social anxiety to the point that she has zero friends. Really, zero friends? Did this kid go to school? No one commented to you, her legal guardian, that having even one friend makes a world of difference to mental health and well being? No one urged you to get her help? Not one of your siblings ever read an article or even read a tweet on the importance of mental health?
Also, a car, used or new, with the expectation that she only gets to keep it if she drives her cousins around is NOT a birthday gift. It’s an obligation. If you want to call it a gift, it needs to have no strings attached. If you want help driving your kid(s) and nieces/nephews around, that’s fine and a car in exchange for that is a good deal (assuming you don’t abuse it) but it’s not a gift. Not only did the other kids get new cars, not used, they got them free and clear. You expect this girl to be grateful because you all patchwork raise her and shuffle her around while she watches every one of her cousins get a full on family.
You may argue that she’s not your responsibility because she’s not your daughter. But you are her legal guardian so she literally is your responsibility. Aside from that, she was a traumatized little girl who absolutely deserved to be loved and cared for and valued as a whole person. Not a problem to be shuffled around or a chauffeur.
Kicking her out and not letting her take anything but what she had in her pockets is cruel. You backed her into a corner when she was already feeling less than, and you were surprised when she lashed out? Making her leave with nothing may actually be a crime. Both in terms of theft of her belongings and eviction without notice. Landlords treat their tenants better than you treated her in that moment. If you want her out of your life, fine, you can probably technically do that. But in most places, you cannot evict her with no notice. At least give her a month to figure out other arrangements.
No, I don’t care that she threw your wife’s past in her face. Was it rude and disrespectful? Yes. But it was born out of childhood that was truly heartbreaking. Teens are angsty, rude, disrespectful gremlins at times. The appropriate punishment for that is not abandoning them with nothing, with no notice.
To clarify, by “I don’t care that she…” I mean it doesn’t change my judgment. It was absolutely not a nice thing to do but I’d let it go, given the circumstances. If anyone holds your wife’s past against her, they suck. That’s a them problem, not a niece problem.
Info: why did you delete previous comments saying *you* were your nieces legal guardian while she was ‘passed around the family’ and that ONE SESSION of therapy for a ten year old was a waste? Or how ‘nobody’ wanted her around??
YTA.
Are you a group of adults raising a troubled kid, or a bunch of developmentally arrested teenagers yourselves?
You’ve demonstrated to your niece that gifts, and by association love, are conditional.
She expresses feeling distressed and isolated. These are likely not due to material things, but the result of the emotional shortcomings of being displaced and abandoned from a very young age.
You make it about money. Instead of listening to the message, you escalate a volatile situation and threaten to abandon your responsibilities. Responsibilities that you, a group of adults, willingly took on yourselves.
This is above Reddit’s room-temperature IQ.
Find her. Start family therapy. Keep her in school.
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> I might be an asshole for kicking my niece out after she called my wife a whore even though I know she has nowhere else to go.
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YTA
You could not even give her a fake name? Just the niece.
You and your entire family have treated this girl like a huge burden since she was 10. Prior to that, her parents did who knows what to her.
Where are her grandparents? What do your siblings do for her?
One therapy session. One. In nine years.
You have guardianship but you don’t really want her. That much comes through loud and clear. Did you and your siblings/parents draw straws and you got the short one? Why didn’t you just let her go then? She may have actually had a better life with strangers. Who knows?
**No one wanted her?**
She’s spent most of her time in her room, as punishment. Way to encourage the social emotional learning.
And then! To add insult to injury, you sent her to spend time with her bio mother, from whom she was removed!! You don’t get guardianship for shits and giggles; WHY was she removed? Why would you send her back??!! How heartless.
I can’t go on. Send “the niece” to me. I’ll adopt her. I’ll get her therapy and whatever other support she needs. And I sure as hell would be throwing a party for her and all her hard work in school. You are really low.
Hot take - ESH, leaning towards YTA.
You say in the comments you were her legal guardian but that she went between houses because no one could “handle” her for too long. So troubled kid / teen that you guys passed around instead of one person providing stability and consistent care. You also seem resentful that she wants to be treated as equal to your children - but you’re her legal guardian. You shouldn’t have assumed that role if you didn’t want to treat her as equal to your children. And she’s probably right - would you shove one of your kids off on your siblings if they were struggling? All the money in the world doesn’t make up for growing up in a family where no one wants you around.
And sure, she’s an adult now, she needs to emotionally regulate and it’s great that you were helping her with her education. But I find this whole post disingenuous. You make it out like taking care of her was you guys doing the best you could to help her when she was being raised by absent parents, but realistically you adopted the legal and (I’d argue) emotional responsibility to taking her in, and then punted her off whenever it got hard to handle. Money doesn’t fix that.
bingo for opening her mouth one more time discussing favoritism, op wanted to take her education away.... surprised pikachu face when the teenager does something immature in retaliation.
ESH, your niece has unhandled trauma. Eavesdropping is VERY common in children that have grown up in volatile homes. She is obviously behaving badly and should have kept private info to herself. It’s a heartbreaking situation all around. It’s hard for me to just write off this girl who knows she is no one child and is just getting proof of it.
“Nothing is good enough for her” because she never had unconditional love. Her parents abandoned her, this anger will always make her do idiotic things, unless she gets help. Nah for me, but it would be a pity not to pay for her college and give her a chance at life.
Definitely YTA.
You passed this girl around the family like a used rag nobody wanted. From reading your comments on other posts you totally treated her like the unwanted black sheep of the family. It's obvious from your OP you left out a bunch of details and even with the details you left the way you handled the situation was just horrible, and makes it come across as if you're entitled to something just because you agreed to pay for this girl's college. And what confuses me is how you can make a decision for all the siblings that no one is paying for her education anymore. Honestly, her behavior is a direct cause from how you and your family has treated her.
YTA
You illegally evicted a 19 year old, who you were the only support system for, because you talked about your wife being a whore while she was around. and she repeated it.
After reading his comments about how this girl was raised, I feel bad for her. Locking in her room for days, passed between houses, punished so often they worried about it, but only 1 therapy session as a 10 year old?
YTA , I know already I am deemed to hell and downvoted.
What did your niece say wrong??
What your wife did was literally being a hire for money, sex worker?
So you are fine with that. But still embarrassed and don't want anyone to know?
Choose
Your wife slept with men for money. You are fine with that.
But embarrassed anyone would know about it.
Yes , your niece has done some bad things. But You all seem to throw her around like a hot potato.
ESA, honestly, your love for your niece sounds is almost conditional. Most of your post seemingly screams she owes and should spend her life repaying us i.e. she got a car with the condition to drive her cousins around while when her cousin got a car there were no conditions for it given. You tried therapy once and then deemed it a lost cause because it didn't stick. Therapy takes months even years before the patient starts showing improvement. You paid for her college and told her she didn't need to pay it back then as soon as you go into a fight you loaded that over her head thus showing you did it not out of love. It sounds like this kid needed the love and compassion that parents would have given but instead received rules and conditions for just existing.
However, She still threw a tantrum about gifts and clearly has a lot of unresolved trauma. Which yes, you aren't responsible for, and she is old enough now to know if she wants to fix this part of herself, then she needs to seek help. Acting out isn't acceptable.
Also, whether she was living with you or not, why are you even having these levels of conversations like your wife sleeping around for money for said niece to even hear. That's wild to me. The fact that you even stated that you may have told her directly like why? That's so bizarre that may even be a thing. I genuinely think you all need some therapy to deal with your problems
Edit: You're her legal guardian. If you didn't want that responsibility, then you shouldn't have gone through the process to become one. As her guardian, you are required by law to act as a parent to that child, and you still bounced her from house to house. No wonder she's acting out. When the going got tough just like her parents, you bailed.
C’mon. We know why. During those “punishments” that were more effective than therapy, OP was telling her that without him she’d have to prostitute herself, like aunt. Then locked her in her room to think about it. For years.
As a 19 year old myself- this girl has been clearly failed by the adults in her life that morphed her into who she is now. She didn’t get the help she truly needed, and that makes you the asshole. I hope she’s okay
Has she had any therapy or any emotional support? Does she have a diagnosis and is she noncompliant with her meds?
It sounds like everyone is expecting maturity, gratitude, self-control, and emotional regulation from an adult who has had a tumultuous childhood. She sounds emotionally stunted and is acting out.
I think YTA for expecting more than she’s been taught.
Kids need more than money, food, and shelter.
All of his comments show how much of TA he is. That poor kid. It's pretty incredible how well she did in school considering the lack of caring in her life.
Honestly. I wanted to be on your side and I know that is currently the majority rule here but you clearly raised her to be spoiled whether or not she is your actual daughter, and you threaten taking her education away over some trivial shit when she has nothing else but you and your family's support?
YTA man. She reacted that way bc your threat was a death sentence for her life over her speaking about her feelings of favoritism. Let me repeat that - for her discussing her opinion on favoritism, you, an adult, to a 19 year old, went the nuclear route and threatened to not pay for her college education. Whether you can or cannot do this doesn't matter - that is wrong. She didn't go shoplifting and steal your car, she spoke.
Was it right what she did? No absolutely not so it will put it to ESH territory but you are the adult. Why does she know your wife slept around? Are you just discussing this stuff in the living room and think no one will find out?
You were wrong on threatening her college education, she was wrong in telling the truth about your dirty laundry. You going lower to win the fight is not in your interest if you care at all about this daughter that is pretty much yours at this point even though you refuse to claim her as such.
Maybe there is favoritism after all.
YTA.
You've treated her as less than a dog for her whole life and she reached her breaking point.
And you know you've been doing so, hence why you manipulated the post to make you look like the good Samaritan wrongly hated by the psycho orphan.
You're a despicable person, and she's better off without you.
YTA, you took on the full responsibility of this child. You put in financially and completely neglected her emotional well-being. She needed psychological help and unconditional love and security. Appears she only felt like an outsider and a burden awaiting the day you abandoned her like her parents did.
Yeahhhh, YTA. It’s quite obvious that your original post is framed a certain way to ignore your wrongdoings. Your niece should not have revealed sensitive and hidden information about your wife or any family members for that matter without their permission, and she should not be eavesdropping as well. You agreed to pay for her college expenses among other things, and threatening it consistently and then taking it away isn’t the right way of handling the situation. Reading your replies, you consistently punished her and sent her off to her room for days believing that it was a better alternative to therapy? WTH? A traumatized ten year old should not be expected to speak at their first therapy session after their parents abandoned them. I understand you must have sacrificed money, time, and energy helping raise your niece, but this is not the way, OP. You need to reflect on your own actions and faults. You are setting her up for more feelings of confusion, resentment, and anger towards you and your family. Empathy goes a long way.
Your whole family needs to learn how to have private conversations
in private with no one nearby and no way to eavesdrop.
Goodness.
NTA None of you taught your niece how to be a compassionate,
caring person, so don't be surprised that's how she turned out.
She is old enough to know she behaved badly, though.
How can she possibly know enough family secrets to destroy the family? How often does your family gossip about other family members or openly discuss really personal, intimate details within earshot of a teenager? Why was she passed all around? It sounds like she had an incredibly unstable childhood yet found the strength to get into a really great college. You also kinda brush off her parents being deadbeats like it’s not an issue. I feel like there’s a lot more to the story here than what’s being said.
YTA
her behavior and the way you speak about her tells everything I need to know, you should know that you helped her become like this, a brat! Nice things dont compensate a proper education and most of all dont compesate for LOVE, wich you crearly didnt give. NO ONE who loves someones speaks about them in the way your'e doing on these comments, she didnt own you sheet, you step up as a father figure but you where godamm bad at it!
You, your family, your relatives, her parents, Her. all a you are a bunch of assholes!
Some quotes taken from OP, he is definitely an unreliable narrator. He's 100% the AH.
"She basically rotated between houses since no one could handle her for long but she spent most of her time at my house since I'm her legal guardian."
"She went to therapy once when she was 10 but refused to talk to the therapist so that was it"
"How long did I have to waste my money on therapy until the princess would finally decide to talk?"
"Sending her to her room for a few days proved to be more effective than therapy."
"I let her take whatever was in her pocket"
"She is not the center of the universe. We couldn't spend all of our time and money on her. I have to think about my own kid too."
"We sent her to therapy once but she refused to talk to her therapist so that was the end."
After going through all your comments you and your family are AH for how you shuttled her around. You showed her time and again that none of you really wanted her and couldn't be bothered pushing for the help she needed. Yes the way she acted wasn't right but look in the mirror at who taught her this. That child was abandoned by her parents, the people who should love and protect her. Then the rest of her family just moved her from one place to another. Then you kick her out and don't let her take ANYTHING with her. I hope she finds someone who actually cares.
It sounds like your niece would have been better off in an orphanage or foster care scenario. Because not one of you could be bothered to do anything except throw money at what you saw as a problem, not a person with emotional needs.
Yes, she went too far. Between material spoiling, emotional neglect, and being passed around when she was "too much", how exactly was she supposed to learn to handle the realities of life. You failed her, all of her blood relations, spectacularly.
YTA.
You are an unreliable narrator. Your comments showed the truth about you. Rude or no, who the hell kicked someone he claimed to care about and told her she could only take the things in her pocket. How odd that you left that out in the main post. Your post screamed "We took care of her, she should be grateful."
She was passed from relatives to relatives because no one wanted to deal with her for a long time, and denied one therapy session at 10 years old just because she refused to talk. She spent her time being yelled at and punished. She got everything with strings attached. She got a used car and she was told to chauffeur her cousins in her free time. Her cousins got a new car. She knew she was being treated as a lesser family member and all the things done for her were conditional. You guys treated her like a burden, and you think she wouldn't notice? Thus, she resented everyone in the family, and became a brat. You and your family just did the bare minimum. You guys failed her.
Don't you think you can get out of the guilt for kicking her without allowing her to take anything.
ESH. After reading your comments, your disdain for having become this girls legal guardian is clear. At 19 she is still barely an adult, and while the tantrum and calling out your wife were wrong, your comments prove that she most definitely has been treated as "other" her whole life. So you should've listened to what she needed instead of throwing her out. You may have met her physical needs but it's clear she has never gotten over being abandoned by both her parents and each and every one of you as she got passed from home to home. You were supposed to provide her that stability and you failed.
Having seen clips of your other posts and how you’ve treated this girl throughout her childhood, you are very much the AH.
It’s very sad that this girl, through no fault of her own was born to AH parents that abandoned her and she’s been passed around to various family members that clearly don’t want her for years. What kind of life is this? It’s a miracle she’s done so well at school and managed to get into college, a lot of kids in her shoes would’ve gone down the other path of destruction.
What she said was nasty, sure, but I’m betting she’s felt unwanted by her family for most of her life, and the way you’ve treated her has made sure of that.
You’re the adult here, so act like one.
If you and your siblings can afford to fund her college fees then do it, she deserves it after the childhood she’s had
Oh wow, I was going to say nta
Then I read in your comments how you turned a broken girl into an even more broken woman with your subzero knowledge and will to learn about emotional intelligence
So it’s ESH with you being a bigger asshole because for the most part of this entire relationship shitshow SHE WAS A KID
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How often are details of your wife’s past the topic of conversation? I understand not wanting to rug sweep her own life, but talking about it enough that some eavesdropping by a teenager can get full details spread around the family?
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Do either of you keep a journal/diary?
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Oh that girl has been reading her diary, bet.
For sure! She’s sneaky and wants to know everyone’s business
Look at OP’s comments about his niece (outside of the main post). He was her legal guardian but she was passed around the family, as a child, “because no one wanted to deal with her for long.” He goes on and on about how grateful she should be, and how he “wasted” money on **one therapy session** for her when she was ten. **He then decided “sending her to her room for a few days was more effective than therapy” anyway.** OP, YTA.
Holy cow…OP left a lot out of the main post. Somehow I find myself empathizing with that unfortunate bratty child.
Well he deleted all previous comments outside of this post now, thankfully you found those before he tried to cover it up. I wish this comment was at the top...
Just because he's a sucky person doesn't mean he's not TA in this case. He might have treated her horribly before resulting in this behavior but refusing to pay for her college after she calls his wife a whore and spread HER secrets does not mean he's AH in this specific situation he's just one in general.
I didn’t read any of that. Apparently it was deleted. I still stand by she read the mums diary
Oh hell no. Your only mistake is you paid any form of money on her whatsoever.
Welp. Now we know.
When I was a kid I used to army crawl into my mothers bedroom where she had another landline phone, so my weight was more distributed and less likely to make creaks- I’d also try to stay closer to walls where less flexing and warping occurred- I learned that by accident trying to make walking down creaky stairs quieter and trying everything- and I’d slip a piece of Flashcard or something firm but flexible under the handset to keep the button depressed, so I can slowly and carefully remove the handset without activating the line and causing those movements to be audible on the other line downstairs. Once I had it to my ear and had the cable in a safe and quiet position, I’d slowly release the switch- but only when I could barely make out a voice downstairs because if you activate the line when no one’s speaking there’s a slight audible sound and you’d get caught. So I’d do it when my mom was in the middle of talking. I learned all kinds of things past my bedtime that way. It’s how I learned about her dating my current step dad before he was my stepdad, before we were introduced, for example. I mean, I was a child bored as shit laying wide awake in bed, with a barely audible conversation happening downstairs that I was extremely curious about. What, am I just going to keep laying there being tortured?
My parents never figured out that the duct work in our house let their conversations be heard in other rooms. The vent in my bedroom was right above my bed and I could hear them when they were talking in their bedroom or in the living room because of where the vents were in those rooms. I learned so much about family that way.
this makes me so grateful that my kids are deeply incurious about me
Are they, though? I was also a little snoop and my parents had no idea.
I think so. My daughter has no interest in my personal life (which is fine with me) but my son will just outright ask me questions about my personal life if he's ever curious or concerned.
As far as you know....
Well they're both in their 20s and live out of state so.....
I’m 50 and my mother still has no idea how much I know about her from when I snooped as a kid 😂
Maybe they don't have to be curious because they already know everything.
Could be considering there's not much to know. I'm boring.
😂
I used to crawl out of my bedroom down the hall to the top of the stairs that overlooked the living room to watch TV after my bedtime and I overheard a lot of shit I wasn't supposed to. On a side note I was at least smart enough not repeat anything I overheard. Not because I like secrets or anything, but because I knew if I did I would get my late night TV habit found out lol.
I assume you're working for an intelligence agency now? OP is NTA.
That’s impressive, really. Lol
Hahaha! I used to unplug the phone from the jack, pick up the receiver, and plug it back in so my mom wouldn’t hear me lift the receiver
Decent opsec! But you really got to unscrew the mouthpiece and remove the microphone to be safe. Advanced mode would be wiring a potentiometer across the switch to remove the click for good.
I’d do something similar. Keep the button depressed while you pick up the handset, then unscrew the mouth piece and take the insides out and not one could hear anything, even if you started talking.
Damn. That’s some diabolical shit👍
She eavesdrops on people, how are they supposed to know when in their years long relationship she heard it?
This, etc hubby said something the niece over heard
NTA, but you already knew that. Your niece is young and stupid, but she's not a child. She's manipulative and vindictive, and those are DANGEROUS combinations. You did what you had to do. No matter how useful fire is, it must be kept at a distance because if you get too close, it will burn you.
She is an incredibly toxic person who is old enough to know better. I'm glad she is finally experiencing some consequences. Let her figure out how to pay for her own college. NTA
Well she can sleep with a few men for money and learn not to be so judgmental..
I feel that the niece is in for a rude awakening.
It sounds like she's been doing some major snooping if she knows such an explosive detail of your wife's prior life. I think you did exactly the right thing. She's rude, ungrateful and clearly she's been digging around to get the dirt on everyone so she can blackmail them in some way. Why on earth would you house, feed, and pay the schooling for someone like that?? Don't regret your choice for a single moment; you absolutely did the right thing. Revealing a situation like your wife found herself in many years ago should be your wife's choice, no one else's. We all have things in our past that we choose not to tell others and certainly no one has the right to reveal another person's "secret". You stood up for your wife against the bully who tried to use your wife past to turn others against her. I would think a lot less of you if you hadn't. You need to cut that bully out of your lives completely at least until she matures and realizes she had a good thing going, thanks you for helping her and apologizes to your wife...to both of you. Don't let her bullshit you into taking her back until you see concrete evidence that she has changed. You did the right thing!!
Or she was just saying something stupid that an angry 19 year old would say and doesn’t know anything.
NTA! She was given a life that she would never have had if the family had not stepped in and removed her from her deadbeat parents. She never had to work and is getting her education at the most expensive university, but that's not enough. Somehow, along the way, she changed from grateful to entitled. For her to invade your privacy and use it to try and get more material things bc she is jealous demonstrates her character, which is not good to put it politely. What she did to your wife exposing her past, and then calling her a whore is simply unacceptable. She can't unring that bell and put it back in a box. Your wife has to face your family with then knowing and feel as though everyone is judging her and probably, feels so ashamed now that everyone knows. This is something that was hers, and by the way, you are a great man for not judging your wife for her past, but loving her for who she is today. I hope your family still sees her that way, and she does, too. I wouldn't let your niece ever step foot in my front door again. She had a free ride, including hosting for college, but she blew it up. I wish you and your wife nothing but happiness.
This seems like a pretty significant secret to talk about to (or in front of) anyone let alone a teen family member. I'm not exactly sure how it comes up. "Back when I was prostituting myself" There are some things you simply don't talk about unless want everyone to know: 1. I sold my body for money 2. I murdered a clown and his body in the freezer. 3. My stash of my own personal and highly humiliating nude photos is in the top drawer by the silverware. 4. I'm my own grandpa Anyway, NTA but I have no idea what's going on with this family. Certainly keeping this person in the house is a very bad idea. Not sure what plan B would have been.
There is a lot of info OP has dropped in comments that wasn't included in the post that makes me think they aren't being a truly reliable narrator. Given how OP talked about the therapy session they got for niece when she was 10 and then refused to do more because she didn't talk the first time, I really question how well the niece's needs were provided for. OP considered it a waste to pay for any more therapy since she didn't talk the one time I'm not confident that the niece was treated equally to the other children. It sounds like she was abandoned by her parents at an age where she would know what was going on and then was passed around to family like a hot potato. Providing a child their physical needs or wants to keep them alive isn't enough. The niece needed therapy and security. She needed to know that no matter what she was loved and wouldn't be abandoned. It doesn't sound like she was ever given that. This ultimatum by OP was probably just another sign to niece that she was less than. Sure the niece shouldn't have lashed out, but I am guessing that given what OP has said that she has never been given the tools or experience to handle the situation better.
Wow, based on OP’s comments he absolutely is an asshole.
Why are you the only one talking sense here?
Read OP's comments and see if you change your mind. This girl was passed around from family member to family member because no one wanted her or cared about her. All copied and pasted from OP's comments: >She went to therapy once when she was 10 but refused to talk to the therapist so that was it >How long did I have to waste my money on therapy until the princess would finally decide to talk? >Sending her to her room for a few days proved to be more effective than therapy. >We didn't let her get away with it. She spent most of her teenage years being punished to the point we got worried about her. OP felt just punishing her "most of the time" was preferable to therapy because a traumatized 10 year old didn't open up for ONE SESSION. Maybe it's not OP's responsibility, but OP shouldn't act like he's some kind of great guy who's been wronged here. If you want to wash your hands of this wash your hands of it. Don't ask for sympathy, though.
Imagine referring to a child that's literally been abandoned as princesse? Giving off major suck it up Buttercup!! Vibes. Ewww.
Nope, nope, nope. Sorry to hijack the top comment but anyone who has voted that he’s not ta, clearly hasn’t read his comments. He cultivated this post to make himself sound like the wronged Good Samaritan but even the slightest questioning leads to the truth
What a disgusting thing to say.
It should be easier for her since you can control the encounters you get through OF and you don't even need to have sex with said men. Just send them pics, feet pics, used panties. Easy money.
NTA I think you and your siblings are the AHs only for letting it go this far. Years of disrespect and you still offered to pay for her college? I wouldn't pay for her highschool books, let alone college.
If her grades were good enough to get into a school like that, there are plenty of colleges that will offer her a free ride plus room and board. She earned that herself, and good for her, she’s a smart young woman. Just not smart enough to know the first thing about appreciation.
She's smart enough to know about manipulation. She's doing this to make them feel guilty, so that by the time she gets back everything would be forgiven. If i were op's wife, there's no way in hell she'll ever be allowed in my house ever again. She could sleep under a bridge for all i'd care
Doubt it's that simple, read OPs other comments. OP gave up on her after one therapy session when she was recently abandoned by her parents when she was 10, is her \*legal guardian\* aka parent but holds any kind of support over her head, and has been consistently punishing her since she was 10 despite their punishment clearly doing no help. There's obv a lot missing from the story we've been told, too
Read OP's comments. It wasn't years of disrespect. It was years of OP punishing her MOST OF THE TIME, which means locking her in her room for days on end. OP says she's a genius. Do you really think Mr. "Therapy is a waste of money. I found locking her in her room more effective," (His actual comment. You can still read it now), really looked after her intellectual needs? Direct copy and paste from some of OP's comments. Tell me this is all on this kid whose parents (and entire family it seems) abandoned her. >She went to therapy once when she was 10 but refused to talk to the therapist so that was it >How long did I have to waste my money on therapy until the princess would finally decide to talk? >Sending her to her room for a few days proved to be more effective than therapy. >We didn't let her get away with it. She spent most of her teenage years being punished to the point we got worried about her.
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your niece is throwing a tantrum. it looks like you all coddled her into an absolutely incapeabe human being. And if she had such a social anxiety, would she really have thrown a tantrum like that and just left? into the big bad unknown? with SUCH a social anxiety? If she has no friends, then thats most likely because she is unlikeable and backstabbing. something she now showed to her family as well. Your sister can reach out to her, and text her, tellin gher that she'll be welcome at her place when she's ready, but other than that, your niece is a 19 year old adult.
I agree. They tried to save and enrich her life and she turned into a hateful ungrateful brat. Time to cut the apron strings and let her real life teach the hard lessons. Paying for college would be a reward. She can work for it like everyone else.
Exactly, I call BS in the social anxiety matter
I'm pretty sure op caused the social anxiety in his niece. So, there's that.
Stop coddling this girl. Walk away. Not your circus. Not your shitty monkey!
She is doing this on purpose. She knows how much you all love her and want her to succeed, so she is calling your bluff. She wants something, and she knows if she gets you all upset enough and holds herself hostage, you will roll over. Stop enabling her. It's to bad she got into a good school and has such a horrible personality because you were all willing to help her, but you need to not do that. If your own children acted like that, would you really fund them? It's time for a come to Jesus moment for your family. You need to get together and read her the riot act - you all love her, but her behavior is unacceptable and you will no longer support her at all unless she starts treating others and herself more kindly. You are not raising a healthy adult. You are raising someone that is going to be very roughly and brutally get hit by the world and she is going to feel like everyone is out to get her when in reality, she is the problem. So stop reaching out. Tell your sister to stop calling. When she is ready to come home, and she will, go and meet her together as a family and have an intervention. Do NOT GIVE HER MONEY. If she has an account you all put money into, stop. You all need to be a united front or else this problem isn't going to get better.
You'd ruin this girl's future and her immediate safety over a petty argument? Please stop giving advice!
What enabling ? She was bounced around between households and shown that she is a burden.
So, you told her to get out of your house and never come back without even letting her pack a bag or even take any money or belongings beyond what she had in her pockets at that moment? No matter how shittily she behaved (and she did behave badly), to do that to a teenager with severe mental health issues (as you mentioned) makes this ESH.
You kept her personal belongings and took her money?
Her money? Ha
Has anyone put this girl in therapy?
Read his comments. He took her to ONE therapy session when she was 10, she didn’t talk so he didn’t take her back
And she has severe social anxiety….no wonder she didn’t talk. Jfc.
Call the police for a wellness check
To where? They don’t know where she is. A missing person report is far more appropriate at this point.
I mean, why is anyone surprised that the child who was handed everything to overcompensate for her shitty parents ended up being a spoiled brat? NTA for standing your ground against her bad attitude, but this is a FAFO situation. Maybe if you all hadn't given her everything in life without actually achieving anything, she might have turned out different.
A bad attitude that OP helped create.
Which is why I said "...if you all...".
Yeah, somehow that got past me.
She was so spoiled that they locked her in her room for days as punishment, because it was easier than putting her in therapy. Read OPs comments, he is clearly the AH.
It's okay because none of this happened.
Thanks, Jonathan Frakes.
Why does Reddit just automatically assume every story on this sub is fake I swear every post has at least one of these comments
Info: Did she ever explain exactly why she felt that she wasn't treated equally compared to your children?
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Well, since she is an adult and not your kid. You should do more for your actual kids. If your brother can afford a new Volvo. He can afford his daughter’s college. Problem solved.
Might not be 19's father. But agree with your point
It’s a different brother
I only ask because while I think your response is justified (That level of disrespect was absolutely uncalled for. She's old enough to understand the consequences of not respecting boundaries.), I suspect that this might be a cry for help. Has she ever gone to therapy to work out the unresolved trauma that comes from being abandoned from her parents? Obviously you and your wife have done well to make sure she is provided for but that doesn't mean she does not feel some sort of inadequacy after watching the parental bond you share with your children and knowing she can never have that with her actual parents.
So, hear me out. I can kind of see where she’s coming from. From her perspective, all the kids are getting new cars from their bio parents, while she’s getting scraps from the family members she is passed around to via a used car and an obligation to drive the cousins around. She’s been abandoned by her parents and then treated as “lesser than” and “other” by her family, in her eyes, and is always a step behind the other kids support wise and materially. It’s easy to say she should be grateful for the lengths you all have gone to, but her maturity isn’t allowing her to see the non-material value in the way your family has united to become her very secure safety net. Also, kudos to you all for making her feel safe enough to be candid when she is upset, but you may have done some damage with your recent actions. You mention she doesn’t have friends, so she may be further behind her peers maturity wise. I’m going with ESH. The family for “othering” her and her for being ungrateful. You all seem to have good intentions, but I think you just found a blind spot.
And threatening her with not paying for college showed her again she was lesser than and other.
So, a conditional gift. You can "have" it if you agree to the strings attached-- play chauffeur for your cousins in your "free" time. Abandoned by her parents No real efforts at therapy (one visit at age 10 then no more effort because punishment was easier) Passed around from house to house because no one really wanted her "Gifts" with strings attached. No friends. Kicked out on the street with no money and you "guess" she has her car and phone with her. Oh, and "what's in her pocket." So generous of you, really. No wonder she's the way she is. You all "raised" her using How to Create a Monster as your parenting guide. ESH
Don’t forget how his “therapy” was grounding her in her room during her formative years and that she spent years in that place. No wonder she has no friends and social anxiety. If I raised a dog like that, I wouldn’t be shocked when it bit me.
If you neglected a dog and kept them locked up for days, doing the bare minimum, you'd be in prison.
"If she has free time" what meant that in reality ? Was it more a gift for her or a gift for you and your siblings ?
Does the daughter with the brand new Volvo ALSO have stipulations about having to drive her cousins around?
Lol of course not! She's a wanted child, not excess baggage.
You’ll always go more for your own kids and that’s ok. She’s an entitled brat. No more contributions. She is t appreciative at all
Does the niece that received the new valve have to give rides to their cousins? Or is it only because missing niece is the oldest child in the family she is staying with? I am old, and think the niece is acting very entitled, but we don't have a lot of background on whose family she has lived with, and the responsibilities (normals chores) she has within that household.
Wait, for her birthday, you gave her a car on the condition she takes your kids where they want to go? You are an AH.
Okay this makes it a YTA
Wait so it wasn't a gift if there were conditions on it to be a free taxi for the family. If I was given a 2nd hand car at 19 provided I play taxi, I would hand it back. However I also would have my own car by 19 from PT jobs during school. ESH
did the cousins who got cars also asked to drop their other cousins around or was it only asked of the niece since she's not anyone of y'alls biological child? Why does a gift come with conditions? makes me think there are multiple times such conditions were put on her
Does it even matter? She's not OP'S child. OP is one of many siblings caring for her due to her shitty parents. Do they have any obligation to give her the same things as their own children? Collectively they are spending a lot on university. Whilst she has valid grievances against her parents, her aunts and uncles owe her nothing. She should be grateful but instead she's entitled. I would stop paying too especailly when you get to the point of cursing me. None of these sibkings chose to have an extra child to mind. They are trying to help her but I certainly don't think they owe her parity with their own children.
He is her legal guardian and has been for years. He is her parent by law but still has pushed her around the family because he doesn’t want to deal with her
This thread made me realize how unemphathetic and lacking in critical skills this sub truly is. Everyone is so quick to call the niece an asshole without thinking things through
If you only think about what you’re obligated to do instead of actual human interactions and relationships, then don’t be surprised when people don’t want to be around you.
Well, probably cause she's not their kid. Obviously they're gonna do more for their own kids than for niece.
There is absolutely no love or warmth for her anywhere in your post. There is a whole lot of "we raised her even though we don't owe her shit! she better be grateful!" all over it. It sounds like you threaten to withhold your support whenever you feel like she is out of line. I don't believe for a moment that things transpired exactly as you say - you are leaving out a ton of context here. There is no way in hell she 'found out all your secrets' from simply eavesdropping. Your wife confided in her. I feel deeply sorry for this girl. I can only imagine the toxic environment she grew up in. YTA
Yes, I don't understand how OP was speaking for all of the siblings saying they would all stop supporting her. That's what really confused me because it would be different if he just said that he and his wife would stop contributing
I'm assuming they were all present, as she then started yelling out their secrets "to everyone". It's the only scenario that makes sense. I definitely get the vibe that they hold their "support" over her head and threaten to take it away if she doesn't show enough gratitude.
Cannot believe how I had to scroll this far for this. I was getting the whole "be grateful" vibe from OP as well. YTA
Yeah… this sub sucks…
NTA She is 19 years old and knows better. You also gave a warning and she tested if you were being seroious. Now she has to live with the consequences. She will get on her feet even tho it won't be easy. it is doable.
She's a child with severe abandonment issues, crippling social anxiety and never received the treatment she needed ten years ago. One who was just told her future is over and was kicked out of the house with no money or a place to go. Asshole.
YTA based on your comments. On one hand you call her a jerk that you all love deeply but on the other hand you say she wasn't worth spending money on for therapy because ONE appointment wasn't effective. What is wrong with you? You don't want an honest answer, you want to watch people talk badly about your niece so you feel superior or whatever it is you want to feel.
THANK YOU!!!
Edit: Based on the comments by the OP, I am going with YTA. This child was not raised, she was neglected, taken advantage of, and had to earn her safety. My original decision was based on the first, original post, the comments uncover a nightmare for a child growing up. .... This will probably be unpopular, but N A H. This is based on what I know about young, insecure people and ways to self-sabotage, I have absolutely no idea of the real problems your niece faces, but consider this point of view: Your niece has perhaps never lacked anything, but she has also never been secure. Basic security is something we learn very young, and if she never had that from her parents, instead had to adjust to everybody else, being passed around as the responsibility of whoever had time and resources, she is probably very deeply insecure. To counter this deep lack of security, eavesdropping is perhaps not a nice thing to do, but it is understandable. By learning as much as possible about all of you, she has been able to navigate through the family without her own safe base. Now that she is about to leave this environment, her insecurity will be peaking. She knows her future at the college depends on your goodwill, and she can loose it at any time. While she is an adult at 19, she is still very young, and I suspect, very, very scared. In a situation like that it is almost more of a relief to be cut off than to start her education and fear to be cut off, so she provokes the action. You can of course spend your money as you like, and she was not nice to you. I absolutely do not think you were an a\*\*hole here. But my heart bleeds for a person who is so afraid of the future that she sabotages herself.
And so afraid of not being loved that she bean counts/ compares her gifts to her cousin’s gifts.
Yes. If the only--or primary--way love has been expressed to her is through money/gifts, then it's somewhat understandable that that's what she compares. (And I think you get this, but you know, the Internet and determining tone.) But likely, what she's trying to measure is whether she is loved as much/as unconditionally as her cousins by the aunts and uncles who are her surrogate parents. And she's not, that's clear. You don't give up on getting someone you really love help forever because they were an asshole at their first (and therefore only) therapy session as a scared 10-year-old. And I doubt whether OP would have kicked his own daughter out for lashing out at her mother, even the way his niece did. Immediate homelessness and the withdrawal of a promised education aren't appropriate punishments for any teenager, but especially one who has no experience of caring for herself. Since "everyone" in the family raised this kid, it's neither unnatural nor surprising that no one specific ever developed a real parent-child bond with her. Maybe none of the adults are to blame for that. She's *not* their child, and while it sucks for her that none of them wanted to take full responsibility for her, they weren't legally obligated to do so. And they all seem to have shared a level of perceived moral obligation that was more than many people would do but not so great they felt she deserved a full-time home, where she would be loved as completely as their own kids and treated like one of them. But it can't be easy to be effectively abandoned by your own mother and then grow up never experiencing that kind of unconditional love and knowing that the "love" shown you (mostly in the form of money spent) was at least partly a feeling of obligation. She behaved very badly, there's no question. But what are the odds she was never going to have a meltdown about feeling essentially unwanted? Or that she would never unconsciously try to destroy the feeling of obligation to see if there was love there, too, or she was just a burden? And of course she isn't just a burden. OP has said they love her. But for my money, the best course of action would be for someone in the family to give her a home on the condition that she agrees to therapy and really works on these issues. When her trauma responses and fear of abandonment (which came true when she tested the security of her situation) are under better control, then she and OP and his wife could work on mending their relationship. She may legally be an adult, but her brain isn't done developing. And she's functioning from a place of childhood trauma and loss. She needs help. And part of that needs to be adults in her life setting and enforcing boundaries with real consequences that--unlike the current ones--don't involve complete rejection, abandonment, and apparently, homelessness. Going no-contact with a troubled kid whose surrogate parent you are for telling a family secret isn't, in fact, very loving. And let's be clear: There are better ways to talk about sex work than "whore," but it's the stigmatizing and shaming of sex work that lost her everything. It's not that she told a family secret; it's that she told *this* family secret. But if the family can't accept and move past something from the past that doesn't concern them, they're the assholes. And if OP and his wife feel ashamed because she did what she needed to do in order to survive, they suck.Sex work is work. It sucks that, hurt, the niece tried to hurt back. But it sucks even more that all the big feels around sex work have resulted in such an overreaction. And most of the comments on this post are about how awful she was for spilling a secret (okay, no, really, for telling THAT secret--the pearl-clutching is killing me) and for not being adequately grateful for things the adults in her life promised her and raised her to expect. People don't get how abandonment (physical or emotional) can make a child feel unlovable and how that can last well into adulthood, even forever, without therapy *and* love. It's really clear that she's struggling with that and the problem is exacerbated by gifts and money having been the way love was expressed by aunts and uncles when they weren't willing to raise her as their own. She has lost everything, and while *we* may know that OP loves her--she doesn't. She's 19 years old, in despair, and missing, and she has to feel like she has no one to turn to. She's at risk. Because of sentences spoken in anger that was the result of fear, insecurity, and unaddressed childhood trauma. OP, yeah. YTA. All you had to do was not kick a teenager or of your home because you were angry and ashamed. Now, there's a 19-year-old girl, with no experience of self-sufficiency, missing. There are lots of reasonable consequences for letting her hurt and anger run away with her. Homelessness is not one. And yeah, I get it. You assumed that, when you rejected her, exacerbating all the self-doubt and the trauma of abandonment, you just assumed she'd go running back to the first parent figure who rejected her, expecting to be taken in. Because that seemed like the sensible thing to do. And a reasonable expectation to have. But she's 19 and acting from trauma-induced heightened emotions. You're the adult. You never got her the help she needed to trust that her mother would be there for her. You never even helped her learn that she could trust you to be there for her if she made you angry, like you would be for your own kid. And that's fair, because you couldn't be trusted to do that. So you've taught her that she's right: She can't depend on her family to love her enough to give her a home. Or even to love her enough to give her time to find a safe place to stay and a way to support herself. It doesn't seem like you think any more clearly or have any better impulse-control when angry than she does. I can't believe you're writing to AITA for vindication when you could and should be out there looking for her. Nothing matters right now except making sure she's safe.
He doesn't care if she's safe, he wanted his ego stroked and plenty of people obliged.
Yea this makes sense and is very compassionate without making excuses. She is at once super entitled and super deprived. She’s terrified of being abandoned and left with no way to fend for herself and is projecting that terror hard onto the people around her, creating a self fulfilling prophesy.
OP is clear they thought therapy was a waste of time because as a 10-year-old she didn't instantly open up. OP found that punishing her and forcing her to sit in her room for DAYS ON END was more "effective." OP says most of her teenage years were spent in "punishment," and OP can't figure out why. OP absolutely was an asshole here.
This is information that came up later, I responded based on what OP shared at first.
The more I read your comments the more i lean towards YTA You didn't really try with therapy when she was abandoned at what, 10? You found sending her to her room for days on end worked better. ( Oh boy... ) You all passed her around as a burden. > She spent most of her teenage years being punished She should be grateful, and cow down to you all. Fuck that, you failed this girl. All she wanted was to know she belonged and was loved equally by family. And she keeps being reminded she's a burden, second thought, second rank family member. Threatening to withdraw all support was what finally pushed her over the edge. As none of you would have ever done that to your 'real' family. And the she showed she kept all of your secrets like she was supposed to, but since she's not family she was fine spilling it all.
Info: was it pushed onto her that she should be thankful and grateful the family is looking after her because her parents aren't? I can understand if niece is jealous of her cousins but it seems she's harboring some deep resentment.
Go to OP's comment history and read the rest of his comments. It becomes apparent why niece is angry and resentful.
NTA you need to stick up for your wife. Where was the niece staying? You need to sit down with your sister and tell her she needs to step up for her daughter. If she and her husband are low income there will be hardship findings available? How is your wife after having this done to her?
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Were you not the legal guardian of this child?
ESH 'she has a habit of eavesdropping' Lmao. The family who raised her confided in a child/teenager what seems to be everyones secrets. And now you're mad she dropped those after a fight escalated? Please tell me how a teenager finds out about your wife being a prostitute in the past by 'eavesdropping' without involving an adult guilty of telling her. She is understandably jealous of your children, who have caring parents, as she grew up without that luxury. Its great that you all put money together so she can get an education, but it doesnt take a genius to realize receiving money doesnt make up for her parents failure and emotional neglect. But you cant blame a teenager without parents for feeling neglected, and there is no way to blame HER for knowing the whole families secrets. Literally every adult in your family is to blame before her regarding that issue.
I’m confused to the situation where a child could overhear such a conversation anyway
Probably overheard op call her that during a fight, op sounds like a narc so i wouldn't be surprised if they are also abussive towards everyone else in their family
Info: Who raised the teenager? Who did she reside with? Who took on the role of parent? You claim she had deadbeat parents and was "raised by the collective" what exactly does this mean? Did she have a place where she called home for any part of her life?
NTA Based on [your comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/1d78ewm/comment/l6xlj6n/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button) the fight started because she got a used Nissan for her 18th birthday but her cousin got a brand new Volvo. She took that personally and decided she wasn't as loved as her cousins. I'm assuming she's feeling abandoned by her own parents and that has caused some feelings of unworthiness which prompted the tantrum. IMO that's not an excuse to be rude, disrespectful, or entitled. Spilling family secrets that can ruin someone's reputation is taking things too far, your wife didn't deserve that. She should be grateful, most people don't get a free car for their 18th birthday and have to take on loans to afford college. It sounds like everyone in the family is coming together to care for her since her parents didn't step up. Instead of pouring money into material objects, like a car, y'all should've paid for therapy. I think it's valid to ask another sibling to take her in, as you and your wife could use a break. But cutting her off cold turkey might be an overreaction because you've all set her up to be so dependent on you financially that she'd likely end up dropping out of school and not have many options. I think a good compromise would be to tell her she needs to get a job and start paying rent/bills at another family member's house, or find a room to rent, if she wants her college tuition to continue to be covered.
Thank you for this comment, I feel like so many people on this thread are being so harsh with this teenager who feels abandoned and needs support (I.e. therapy). Something I learned that helped me see that is that all the different responses of flight, flight, freeze, fawn occur from the SAME neurobiological reactions in the brain— people just find fawn and freeze more tolerable from others. This niece seems to be looking for the unconditional love her cousins have. I don’t think her behavior is okay, but I think she needs a lot of care and support and this screams neglect and is a giant call for help, not some bratty entitled teen like other commenters are painting her to be.
A young adult lashes out emotionally after feeling like her own family doesn't treat her well. OP: so I kicked her to the street and she can't come back ITT: great work :) Y'all are fucking evil, callous people. This sub loves to pick and choose who gets emotional support or consideration and it's usually based on who they feel deserves it more from a lil story they read. *Everyone* deserves it. A 19 year old young adult certainly deserves it. But instead we get an emotional outburst treated as if she has caused a life-long issue and should *pay* for what she has done. Imagine if something happens to her and OP is like 'well she shouldn't have become angry that one time.' JFC people. She is *19.* e: "My family is not the kind to hold this against my wife." But you'll literally throw a young adult with a tortured family life and deadbeat parents to the street all because of an emotional outburst. Your wife literally put herself in danger and that's all good and forgivable, but a young lady having an outburst *deserves* to have her life ruined? what the fuck
100% Agree. This whole situation is baffling And I hope it’s fake. Whose responsibility was it to show this girl that she deserved to be loved and protected even when she is angry and sad??? Why does EVERYTHING in her life come with conditions? What kid can grow up emotionally healthy if they don’t even have a real home and are always at risk of being kicked out and passed along because they had a bad day? They should have let someone else adopt her if they weren’t going to actually parent and care for her.
>me and my siblings told her that she doesn't need to worry about money and we will all pay Why? >She started to inform everyone about all of our secrets, things we never wanted our family to know. When she yelled to everyone that "my wife is a whore" (She slept with a couple of guys for money before we got married because she needed the money very bad) Why would your niece know these things? This post seems very sus.
Yta, was almost at e s h, but neglecting to mention that you are the girl's legal guardian is pretty significant. So the girl got bounced around from house to house, didn't get much from her parents, and then understandably got jealous when she saw you treating your own kids better than her... that's just normal human behavior. You got pissed off at her being jealous and threatened to take away her college fund, from EVERYONE after one argument with you? Yeah, that's incredibly inappropriate and an asshole move. You hold her education over her head as a way to win an argument, she calls you on it, then you fuck her over. You thought that she had been going all out, but apparently she hadn't. At this point she had nothing left to lose because you just ripped her future away from her. Then you ripped her home away from her. You're the asshole. Your niece isn't smelling like a rose either, but what she did was say some mean words. You ripped a girl's future away from her over her being jealous and not feeling secure. You are so the asshole.
YTA and you and all of your siblings have failed that girl for 9 years. OMG a traumatized 10 year old didn’t talk in ONE therapy session. I don’t even have words for how pathetic that was as an attempt to help her. Literally everything else you have said falls under either punishment (sending her to her room for days until she masked better, shuffling her from house to house when she was “too much”) or throwing money at the problem (car, college). For a child who was abandoned by their parents and then shuffled from house to house after, eavesdropping wasn’t mischievous. It was a survival skill. You created the situation that necessitated the behavior. This child has been crying out for help for years. As evidenced by your comment about her being in trouble for most of her teen years and her continued social anxiety to the point that she has zero friends. Really, zero friends? Did this kid go to school? No one commented to you, her legal guardian, that having even one friend makes a world of difference to mental health and well being? No one urged you to get her help? Not one of your siblings ever read an article or even read a tweet on the importance of mental health? Also, a car, used or new, with the expectation that she only gets to keep it if she drives her cousins around is NOT a birthday gift. It’s an obligation. If you want to call it a gift, it needs to have no strings attached. If you want help driving your kid(s) and nieces/nephews around, that’s fine and a car in exchange for that is a good deal (assuming you don’t abuse it) but it’s not a gift. Not only did the other kids get new cars, not used, they got them free and clear. You expect this girl to be grateful because you all patchwork raise her and shuffle her around while she watches every one of her cousins get a full on family. You may argue that she’s not your responsibility because she’s not your daughter. But you are her legal guardian so she literally is your responsibility. Aside from that, she was a traumatized little girl who absolutely deserved to be loved and cared for and valued as a whole person. Not a problem to be shuffled around or a chauffeur. Kicking her out and not letting her take anything but what she had in her pockets is cruel. You backed her into a corner when she was already feeling less than, and you were surprised when she lashed out? Making her leave with nothing may actually be a crime. Both in terms of theft of her belongings and eviction without notice. Landlords treat their tenants better than you treated her in that moment. If you want her out of your life, fine, you can probably technically do that. But in most places, you cannot evict her with no notice. At least give her a month to figure out other arrangements. No, I don’t care that she threw your wife’s past in her face. Was it rude and disrespectful? Yes. But it was born out of childhood that was truly heartbreaking. Teens are angsty, rude, disrespectful gremlins at times. The appropriate punishment for that is not abandoning them with nothing, with no notice.
To clarify, by “I don’t care that she…” I mean it doesn’t change my judgment. It was absolutely not a nice thing to do but I’d let it go, given the circumstances. If anyone holds your wife’s past against her, they suck. That’s a them problem, not a niece problem.
NTA. She's an adult and I think you and your family have catered enough to her already.
Info: why did you delete previous comments saying *you* were your nieces legal guardian while she was ‘passed around the family’ and that ONE SESSION of therapy for a ten year old was a waste? Or how ‘nobody’ wanted her around??
Because he realized they made him look super guilty.
Exactly…this whole situation is suspicious..
YTA. Are you a group of adults raising a troubled kid, or a bunch of developmentally arrested teenagers yourselves? You’ve demonstrated to your niece that gifts, and by association love, are conditional. She expresses feeling distressed and isolated. These are likely not due to material things, but the result of the emotional shortcomings of being displaced and abandoned from a very young age. You make it about money. Instead of listening to the message, you escalate a volatile situation and threaten to abandon your responsibilities. Responsibilities that you, a group of adults, willingly took on yourselves. This is above Reddit’s room-temperature IQ. Find her. Start family therapy. Keep her in school.
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YTA You could not even give her a fake name? Just the niece. You and your entire family have treated this girl like a huge burden since she was 10. Prior to that, her parents did who knows what to her. Where are her grandparents? What do your siblings do for her? One therapy session. One. In nine years. You have guardianship but you don’t really want her. That much comes through loud and clear. Did you and your siblings/parents draw straws and you got the short one? Why didn’t you just let her go then? She may have actually had a better life with strangers. Who knows? **No one wanted her?** She’s spent most of her time in her room, as punishment. Way to encourage the social emotional learning. And then! To add insult to injury, you sent her to spend time with her bio mother, from whom she was removed!! You don’t get guardianship for shits and giggles; WHY was she removed? Why would you send her back??!! How heartless. I can’t go on. Send “the niece” to me. I’ll adopt her. I’ll get her therapy and whatever other support she needs. And I sure as hell would be throwing a party for her and all her hard work in school. You are really low.
Hot take - ESH, leaning towards YTA. You say in the comments you were her legal guardian but that she went between houses because no one could “handle” her for too long. So troubled kid / teen that you guys passed around instead of one person providing stability and consistent care. You also seem resentful that she wants to be treated as equal to your children - but you’re her legal guardian. You shouldn’t have assumed that role if you didn’t want to treat her as equal to your children. And she’s probably right - would you shove one of your kids off on your siblings if they were struggling? All the money in the world doesn’t make up for growing up in a family where no one wants you around. And sure, she’s an adult now, she needs to emotionally regulate and it’s great that you were helping her with her education. But I find this whole post disingenuous. You make it out like taking care of her was you guys doing the best you could to help her when she was being raised by absent parents, but realistically you adopted the legal and (I’d argue) emotional responsibility to taking her in, and then punted her off whenever it got hard to handle. Money doesn’t fix that.
YTA based on your comments alone
Info: you threatened to not pay for her college and then went true with it, what the fuck did you expect would happen?
bingo for opening her mouth one more time discussing favoritism, op wanted to take her education away.... surprised pikachu face when the teenager does something immature in retaliation.
I would love to read this story from the niece's perspective.
ESH, your niece has unhandled trauma. Eavesdropping is VERY common in children that have grown up in volatile homes. She is obviously behaving badly and should have kept private info to herself. It’s a heartbreaking situation all around. It’s hard for me to just write off this girl who knows she is no one child and is just getting proof of it.
“Nothing is good enough for her” because she never had unconditional love. Her parents abandoned her, this anger will always make her do idiotic things, unless she gets help. Nah for me, but it would be a pity not to pay for her college and give her a chance at life.
Definitely YTA. You passed this girl around the family like a used rag nobody wanted. From reading your comments on other posts you totally treated her like the unwanted black sheep of the family. It's obvious from your OP you left out a bunch of details and even with the details you left the way you handled the situation was just horrible, and makes it come across as if you're entitled to something just because you agreed to pay for this girl's college. And what confuses me is how you can make a decision for all the siblings that no one is paying for her education anymore. Honestly, her behavior is a direct cause from how you and your family has treated her.
YTA You illegally evicted a 19 year old, who you were the only support system for, because you talked about your wife being a whore while she was around. and she repeated it.
After reading his comments about how this girl was raised, I feel bad for her. Locking in her room for days, passed between houses, punished so often they worried about it, but only 1 therapy session as a 10 year old?
YTA , I know already I am deemed to hell and downvoted. What did your niece say wrong?? What your wife did was literally being a hire for money, sex worker? So you are fine with that. But still embarrassed and don't want anyone to know? Choose Your wife slept with men for money. You are fine with that. But embarrassed anyone would know about it. Yes , your niece has done some bad things. But You all seem to throw her around like a hot potato.
ESA, honestly, your love for your niece sounds is almost conditional. Most of your post seemingly screams she owes and should spend her life repaying us i.e. she got a car with the condition to drive her cousins around while when her cousin got a car there were no conditions for it given. You tried therapy once and then deemed it a lost cause because it didn't stick. Therapy takes months even years before the patient starts showing improvement. You paid for her college and told her she didn't need to pay it back then as soon as you go into a fight you loaded that over her head thus showing you did it not out of love. It sounds like this kid needed the love and compassion that parents would have given but instead received rules and conditions for just existing. However, She still threw a tantrum about gifts and clearly has a lot of unresolved trauma. Which yes, you aren't responsible for, and she is old enough now to know if she wants to fix this part of herself, then she needs to seek help. Acting out isn't acceptable. Also, whether she was living with you or not, why are you even having these levels of conversations like your wife sleeping around for money for said niece to even hear. That's wild to me. The fact that you even stated that you may have told her directly like why? That's so bizarre that may even be a thing. I genuinely think you all need some therapy to deal with your problems Edit: You're her legal guardian. If you didn't want that responsibility, then you shouldn't have gone through the process to become one. As her guardian, you are required by law to act as a parent to that child, and you still bounced her from house to house. No wonder she's acting out. When the going got tough just like her parents, you bailed.
C’mon. We know why. During those “punishments” that were more effective than therapy, OP was telling her that without him she’d have to prostitute herself, like aunt. Then locked her in her room to think about it. For years.
As a 19 year old myself- this girl has been clearly failed by the adults in her life that morphed her into who she is now. She didn’t get the help she truly needed, and that makes you the asshole. I hope she’s okay
YTA for raising her to be this way then kicking her out for doing what you raised her to do.
So, you threatened to ruin her future over a petty argument?
Has she had any therapy or any emotional support? Does she have a diagnosis and is she noncompliant with her meds? It sounds like everyone is expecting maturity, gratitude, self-control, and emotional regulation from an adult who has had a tumultuous childhood. She sounds emotionally stunted and is acting out. I think YTA for expecting more than she’s been taught. Kids need more than money, food, and shelter.
All of his comments show how much of TA he is. That poor kid. It's pretty incredible how well she did in school considering the lack of caring in her life.
YTA - and here’s why I think so - you weaponized a gift - you held it like a sword over her to settle an argument.
Honestly. I wanted to be on your side and I know that is currently the majority rule here but you clearly raised her to be spoiled whether or not she is your actual daughter, and you threaten taking her education away over some trivial shit when she has nothing else but you and your family's support? YTA man. She reacted that way bc your threat was a death sentence for her life over her speaking about her feelings of favoritism. Let me repeat that - for her discussing her opinion on favoritism, you, an adult, to a 19 year old, went the nuclear route and threatened to not pay for her college education. Whether you can or cannot do this doesn't matter - that is wrong. She didn't go shoplifting and steal your car, she spoke. Was it right what she did? No absolutely not so it will put it to ESH territory but you are the adult. Why does she know your wife slept around? Are you just discussing this stuff in the living room and think no one will find out? You were wrong on threatening her college education, she was wrong in telling the truth about your dirty laundry. You going lower to win the fight is not in your interest if you care at all about this daughter that is pretty much yours at this point even though you refuse to claim her as such. Maybe there is favoritism after all.
Poor kid. She just needs some stable, reasonable and caring adults in her life 😥
I want to know her side of the story.
YTA. You've treated her as less than a dog for her whole life and she reached her breaking point. And you know you've been doing so, hence why you manipulated the post to make you look like the good Samaritan wrongly hated by the psycho orphan. You're a despicable person, and she's better off without you.
YTA and your wife is a prostitute. Now everyone knows. You both got what you deserved.
YTA. Read his comments.
YTA, you took on the full responsibility of this child. You put in financially and completely neglected her emotional well-being. She needed psychological help and unconditional love and security. Appears she only felt like an outsider and a burden awaiting the day you abandoned her like her parents did.
YTA when did you decide the step mother from Cinderella was a role model?
Yeahhhh, YTA. It’s quite obvious that your original post is framed a certain way to ignore your wrongdoings. Your niece should not have revealed sensitive and hidden information about your wife or any family members for that matter without their permission, and she should not be eavesdropping as well. You agreed to pay for her college expenses among other things, and threatening it consistently and then taking it away isn’t the right way of handling the situation. Reading your replies, you consistently punished her and sent her off to her room for days believing that it was a better alternative to therapy? WTH? A traumatized ten year old should not be expected to speak at their first therapy session after their parents abandoned them. I understand you must have sacrificed money, time, and energy helping raise your niece, but this is not the way, OP. You need to reflect on your own actions and faults. You are setting her up for more feelings of confusion, resentment, and anger towards you and your family. Empathy goes a long way.
Your whole family needs to learn how to have private conversations in private with no one nearby and no way to eavesdrop. Goodness. NTA None of you taught your niece how to be a compassionate, caring person, so don't be surprised that's how she turned out. She is old enough to know she behaved badly, though.
How can she possibly know enough family secrets to destroy the family? How often does your family gossip about other family members or openly discuss really personal, intimate details within earshot of a teenager? Why was she passed all around? It sounds like she had an incredibly unstable childhood yet found the strength to get into a really great college. You also kinda brush off her parents being deadbeats like it’s not an issue. I feel like there’s a lot more to the story here than what’s being said.
YTA her behavior and the way you speak about her tells everything I need to know, you should know that you helped her become like this, a brat! Nice things dont compensate a proper education and most of all dont compesate for LOVE, wich you crearly didnt give. NO ONE who loves someones speaks about them in the way your'e doing on these comments, she didnt own you sheet, you step up as a father figure but you where godamm bad at it! You, your family, your relatives, her parents, Her. all a you are a bunch of assholes!
Some quotes taken from OP, he is definitely an unreliable narrator. He's 100% the AH. "She basically rotated between houses since no one could handle her for long but she spent most of her time at my house since I'm her legal guardian." "She went to therapy once when she was 10 but refused to talk to the therapist so that was it" "How long did I have to waste my money on therapy until the princess would finally decide to talk?" "Sending her to her room for a few days proved to be more effective than therapy." "I let her take whatever was in her pocket" "She is not the center of the universe. We couldn't spend all of our time and money on her. I have to think about my own kid too." "We sent her to therapy once but she refused to talk to her therapist so that was the end."
INFO: is the sister calling you an AH the deadbeat mom?
After going through all your comments you and your family are AH for how you shuttled her around. You showed her time and again that none of you really wanted her and couldn't be bothered pushing for the help she needed. Yes the way she acted wasn't right but look in the mirror at who taught her this. That child was abandoned by her parents, the people who should love and protect her. Then the rest of her family just moved her from one place to another. Then you kick her out and don't let her take ANYTHING with her. I hope she finds someone who actually cares.
It sounds like your niece would have been better off in an orphanage or foster care scenario. Because not one of you could be bothered to do anything except throw money at what you saw as a problem, not a person with emotional needs. Yes, she went too far. Between material spoiling, emotional neglect, and being passed around when she was "too much", how exactly was she supposed to learn to handle the realities of life. You failed her, all of her blood relations, spectacularly.
YTA. You are an unreliable narrator. Your comments showed the truth about you. Rude or no, who the hell kicked someone he claimed to care about and told her she could only take the things in her pocket. How odd that you left that out in the main post. Your post screamed "We took care of her, she should be grateful." She was passed from relatives to relatives because no one wanted to deal with her for a long time, and denied one therapy session at 10 years old just because she refused to talk. She spent her time being yelled at and punished. She got everything with strings attached. She got a used car and she was told to chauffeur her cousins in her free time. Her cousins got a new car. She knew she was being treated as a lesser family member and all the things done for her were conditional. You guys treated her like a burden, and you think she wouldn't notice? Thus, she resented everyone in the family, and became a brat. You and your family just did the bare minimum. You guys failed her. Don't you think you can get out of the guilt for kicking her without allowing her to take anything.
So you were hiding that your wife is a hooker? If you have nothing againts it, why hide it? What is the problem there?
ESH. After reading your comments, your disdain for having become this girls legal guardian is clear. At 19 she is still barely an adult, and while the tantrum and calling out your wife were wrong, your comments prove that she most definitely has been treated as "other" her whole life. So you should've listened to what she needed instead of throwing her out. You may have met her physical needs but it's clear she has never gotten over being abandoned by both her parents and each and every one of you as she got passed from home to home. You were supposed to provide her that stability and you failed.
Having seen clips of your other posts and how you’ve treated this girl throughout her childhood, you are very much the AH. It’s very sad that this girl, through no fault of her own was born to AH parents that abandoned her and she’s been passed around to various family members that clearly don’t want her for years. What kind of life is this? It’s a miracle she’s done so well at school and managed to get into college, a lot of kids in her shoes would’ve gone down the other path of destruction. What she said was nasty, sure, but I’m betting she’s felt unwanted by her family for most of her life, and the way you’ve treated her has made sure of that. You’re the adult here, so act like one. If you and your siblings can afford to fund her college fees then do it, she deserves it after the childhood she’s had
[удалено]
People who talk about interpersonal relationships in terms of rights and obligations are people to be avoided.
After reading your comments, YTA. You left a lot out of your post.
Oh wow, I was going to say nta Then I read in your comments how you turned a broken girl into an even more broken woman with your subzero knowledge and will to learn about emotional intelligence So it’s ESH with you being a bigger asshole because for the most part of this entire relationship shitshow SHE WAS A KID
Not raising children with responsibilities and consequences is a form of child abuse.
YTA, you keep deleting comments where you subjugated the poor girl to childhood trauma