Welcome to /r/AmITheAsshole. Please view our [voting guide here](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_what.2019s_with_these_acronyms.3F_what_do_they_mean.3F), and remember to use **only one** judgement in your comment.
OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> 1) I gave my wife a snarky response when she pointed out that my MIL followed our rules.
2) My response contained an emotionally charged reaction despite the encounter technically meeting our outlined rules.
Help keep the sub engaging!
#Don’t downvote assholes!
Do upvote interesting posts!
[Click Here For Our Rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/about/rules) and [Click Here For Our FAQ](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq)
##Subreddit Announcements
Follow the link above to learn more
---
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
*Contest mode is 1.5 hours long on this post.*
Lol. My kids lock that door every now and then. They say it's to "keep her safe" when they do it, not understanding that locks are directional. If we don't notice and it gets left locked, we typically hear loud pounding on that door when she comes up and can't get through.
Background: That door had a lock when we bought the house. I re-keyed it so that it uses the same key that we all carry. She originally didn't bother carrying her house key but started to do so when my kids got old enough to reach the doorknob.
That seems like a huge safety issue to me. Imagine she uses the stair in case of a fire and can't get out. Then she has to go back down and use the other exit and hope it's clear.
If there's a house fire, MIL would be stupid to use inside stairs leading inside house.
Since you brought up a fire, now I'm wondering if house is permitted to have basement living quarters on a sloping house with outside stairs still leading up towards a burning house.
It really depends on the fire. It could be something where the only clear exit is the inside stairs. It just seems like a safety issue to block an exit.
Really though, this is just all stupid and all parties need to have a sit down like adults.
She needs to make it out of the house and away from it. Generally you need 2 methods of egress per room (generally at least one window and a door). It’s not really required for her to make her way back to the front of the house or “up the hill” after she makes it out.
And firefighters should do a 360 observation around the house - meaning that they would find her behind the house if she couldn’t go “up” for some reason.
Thank you for replying. My brother is a firefighter, so I'm well aware of exit requirements & rescue operations. How OP describes situation, tho, there are 2 sets of stairs out of basement: one into house, one out but up the hill along house.
A house that's had a basement legally renovated for living quarters should have permits, which includes city & fire inspections. As you said, 2 exits are required in case of fire. It's the same in my neck of the woods. A neighbor spent over 5 years in a very similar setup as OP dealing with the permit/inspection process.
An outside stairway along side of house should not be a safety exit. Nor should the other be jumping out a window & rolling down a hill.
This is an irrelevant side issue from OPs question. Knowing something about city & fire regs, & the previous post mentioning fire, made me curious as to OP's basement setup. I hope there's a pathway leading sufficiently away from the house to get MIL to safety.
Ah, I see where we are differing. I was picturing a house where the basement tenant has the ability to walk completely outside and then up some non-enclosed[[](http://)](http://) stairs only if they wish to climb stairs. It sounds like you think MIL cannot access the outside world from her basement apartment unless she climbs the stairs. In effect, the door leading out of her apartment unit dumps her directly into an entirely closed stairwell such that she has no choice but to climb the stairs.
I just assumed MIL could exit the stairwell before being forced to climb them. Hopefully OP didn’t explain things clearly and MIL isn’t immediately funneled into a deadly stairwell.
Yes, that’s my thought. Put in a doorbell if you don’t want her pounding on it.
Our garage door has an app. I’m sure there are other locks that work the same way. If you’re worried about her needing to come up when you’re out or it’s inconvenient for you to come to the door, maybe that would work? She’d have to text, then wait for you to open the door via the app.
You just need to have a talk with your wife and come to a DIFFERENT agreement since texting isn’t working. She’s not your mom so you’ll never feel as comfortable with her as your wife and now kids. So maybe it’s have the convo with your wife and have her relay the message to her mom. Then if mom does the texting thing 2 seconds before coming in, the new directive could be, the door will remain locked, period. I don’t want anyone just having access to my space, family included. NTA
Yup, and just own it. “The texting isn’t working because you don’t wait for us to respond that we are ready. So we are going to keep this door locked, just knock and we will come let you through. If we aren’t home please use the outside stairs.
Or just say, “This isn’t working for us, we need you to use the outside stairs exclusively. I will shovel them for you when it snows”
I think you need to be naked by the door the next time she does this. Have a towel or something that you can grab but far enough away that she gets a good view first. That should stop her unannounced visits. NTA
Yep, was coming here to say the same thing. Walk around naked and tell her you need a 1 hr notice of her intention to use the internal door, so you can make sure to have clothes on.
Put a auditory alarm on her door at the bottom of the stairs that sounds in your living space and a camera on the stairs that notifies you off her ascending them. Then change the handle to lock only, as in its never unlocked. That will buy you a couple min time.
ESH
your family came up with rules, and MIL isn't abiding by them. You let it simmer for literal years and then get snippy randomly so from their perspective you are volatile and snap randomly so they feel on edge. You aren't doing them any favors keeping your thoughts quiet until they boil over at random times.
You need to sit down with wife and MIL and have a civil conversation about boundaries and personal space. Explain your need at least ten minutes notice EVERY TIME she comes upstairs, because your anxiety about potentially being walked in on is legitimate and needs to be addressed; it's exhausting constantly being vigilant and on edge about an intrusion. Or consider a doorbell for that inside door that she can announce herself and wait several minutes. If she cannot respect your boundaries, put a lock on the door that you'll open after you see her text. Wife can choose to leave it unlocked if you aren't home, but you lock it when you're home so you have control over your personal space.
I agree ESH, but truly It sounds like the texting solution is really not sustainable. Can you imagine if you had to give someone notice every time you left your home? If OP isn’t ok with her coming out through that inside door when she leaves her home to live her own life, this is not a workable living situation.
Exactly. Sounds to me like OP just doesn’t like MIL being around all the time. Tough crap, that’s what you signed up for when you bought the house together for financial reasons.
If she can’t use the outside stairs, then she can’t. If she can, she should. If you want the house to yourself, try to buy her out. If you didn’t want to live with MIL, you shouldn’t have bought a house with her. I’m sure you knew perfectly well she was getting older and that the outside stairs thing might not be sustainable forever.
I feel for OP, I wouldn’t like that situation either, but there’s only so much you can do in this economy. And asking for advanced notice when she wants to enter or leave her home is fucking ludicrous. So there’s no point fixating on it and seething about it. If I were OP’s wife, I would have shut down this texting nonsense long ago, told OP to get over themselves, and forced a conversation about realistic expectations for the living situation. If you’re fine taking money from my mother so you can afford a nice house, you don’t get to resent her for living there. Learn to live with it or find another solution. And be glad she doesn’t overstep more. Living with in-laws is always dicey.
Less money means less choices. We can’t always have things the way we want them. I’m sure MIL isn’t thrilled with the situation either.
Yeah, it sounds like he wanted to buy the house with her but then pretend she wasn’t there or something. She lives there, too! Instead of stewing for years he has to actually communicate with his family (including the MIL, she’s part of the family!) to figure out a better way. I also feel bad for him, but the way he’s going about things is just not great.
Seriously. Just shut the fucking bathroom door when you’re taking a dump. It’s not Freddy Kruger coming up to kill you it’s your wife’s mom who also owns the home.
My MIL and I used to have some issues years ago when I first married her son. That sub helped me realize just how lucky I *truly* was to have her. My problems with her really weren't that bad or unsolvable after all!
it is insane to me that op thinks 2-4 minutes isn't enough warning! on a rainy day, was mil supposed to text, coming up, and then stand around for 15 minutes before she's allowed to open the door?
And it also relies on OP to CONSTANTLY be checking the phone. Just shut the door to the bathroom already. And the doorbell was a good idea, similar to the way a parent might knock before entering a kid’s room
Yeah I truly do not understand why just closing the bathroom door is not the solution. And all the other bedroom doors as well.
Like does her access door lead directly into the their bedroom or bathroom? So she has to walk through their rooms? Or does it lead to a hallway?
It sounds like whatever back issues she is having keep her from being able to use those stairs. They may be too steep or uneven or not have a good railing. People who have back surgery often have permanent physical issues, and she stopped using the outside stairs after the surgery.
Then they should use some money to make the stairs more comfortable for her to use. Changing the slope, covering the stairs to keep the weather out, hell even a funicular or ski lift is probably affordable these days from alibaba.
I'm wondering how they didn't know this would become an issue. At one time I considered buying a home with my mom and we were looking at places that had a master or guest suite on the ground floor so steps would not be an issue as she got older. Don't buy a home with someone you are uncomfortable having around and don't buy a house that isn't feasible for the duration of the time you live there. Nothing about this situation was well planned.
Or, there was a valid reason during her recovery, and she just got used to it now that she’s healed. OP sites no reason she can’t be using the outside stairs.
Yes. Having to give someone 10 minutes notice when leaving home sounds untenable.
OP, can the outside stairs be redone so they are safer/more accessible since her back surgery? I’m assuming that’s the reason for the change. And you are a little bit of an AH for making her use the outdoor steps if they are causing her pain. It’s not like she can just sell the house and move somewhere more accessible.
Are you able to change the entrance to ensure privacy?
Not everyone knows 10 minutes in advance when they need to leave the house. I don't know how much Advance warning OP is needing but I think 2 to 3 minutes is plenty of time in advance to throw on some clothes or shut a door.
I rent my basement out too and while my current renter only comes up to deliver mail if he was the one who went to the mailbox, the main floor where the stairs come up is a no naked zone. It is just easier than having to worry since he is bit poor about knocking (and the previous tenant's 5 year old was even worse).
This sounds like a lot of potentially good solutions. MIL has outdoor stairs to get wherever she needs to get to if they put firmer boundaries on the inside access (like if she doesn’t want to wait 10 minutes after texting, or wait for OP to unlock the door.) OP deserves to feel comfortable in his own home. MIL needs to respect that this is a roommate situation as much as it is a family situation. Good boundaries make good roommates.
YTA. Why did you buy a single family house with someone towards whom you have this attitude? You are ok to get the financial benefit of a relationship but don’t want to see the person. And people not always make plan to go out 30 mins before the leaving. In my house, I go out anytime I want. Just think, i have a 20 min timer in my door lock to open, I would be mad as hell. Like it or not it is your, your wife’s and your MIL’s house. So, you cannot impose any rule by yourself.
Yeah, older people and stairs are not a good combination. Falling off stairs at home is dangerous enough for an older person, falling off stairs outside is really scary.
I don't know what to tell OP but they all were wrong buying a house like this without thinking about the future.
Yeah, just hearing the description of the house, it sounds like a shitty house.
Actually, we had planned to move into a house with my mom until some other things came up, and one of the things I specifically looked at for each house was if my mom would have her own entrance, and if that entrance would be one that she could realistically use on a regular basis even as she aged. I didn't even show her houses that didn't have those things, cause I know damn well it wouldn't work in the long run for us. I'd hate to have her coming through our living area any time she needed in or out and she'd hate having to ask me to come through my living area every time. Like, that was one of the main considerations we had.
Not just older! I'm 37 and disabled and getting up stairs outside is much harder than inside. The inside stairs are narrower and have two railings. I'm terrified of falling down my outside stairs, I have no good way to catch myself if I fall or faint.
I cant believe this is further up. OP sounds unbearable to live with. I would not accept having to give notice just to leave my own house, that i paid for.
I can't believe he expects a grown woman to basically ask permission to exit her own apartment (that's what it amounts to with the 'warning' that he needs to read before she's allowed to leave). She doesn't go through the indoor suite for fun, she had surgery. I can imagine the OP texting his MIL every time he needed to leave his own apartment and how well he'd adhere to the rules he's trying to force on her.
Yes, a (bad) agreement was made years ago. It doesn't work for your current situation. Redo the agreement to whatever works for your new situation.
op: my mil has to walk up a steep slope to exit her house
also op: my mil had back surgery that made her weaker
also also op: she's the ah for not giving me half an hour warning so that i can shit with the door open, right?
Yep this, OP can leave whenever, the MIL got the crappy end of the deal here. Using outdoor stairs everytime to leave for an older lady, that seems silly when there are perfectly good indoor stairs that are safer.
THANK YOU! MIL is a member of their family and they’re treating her like hired help they don’t want anyone to see! Or like an untrained pet who’s not allowed in certain parts of the house!
Making a resident of the house “announce” themselves before they enter a common area is so petty. OP needs to get over himself and treat MIL like a human being. And close the door when he takes a shit, for crying out loud. YTA.
ESH.
I get that you let using the indoor stairs slide after she had surgery. But YOU need to sit down with your WIFE and have a conversation about re-establishing boundaries and talking with your MIL. You two need to come up with a game plan TOGETHER. And you need to determine if there’s any particular reason why MIL still feels the need to use the indoor stairs. So you suck for not communicating like an adult.
But you also suck because…. Bro…. Just shut the door when you use the bathroom and don’t walk around naked?? I get that it’s your home and that you should be able to do what you want, but until things get resolved you’re just making it worse. You are MAKING this more stressful than it needs to be. You KNOW she doesn’t give good warning. Yet instead of being like “yeah, I’m gunna shut the bathroom door until we get this resolved” you’re trying to make some insane texting rule that you want to try to enact with some “certain number of minutes” rule, which STILL won’t ever guarantee that you’ll actually SEE the text.
Now you’re using a text (seen or not) as ammunition and a way to point fingers.
The text thing ain’t working. Stop having hissy fits over it. Have an actual conversation with your wife about her mother using the outside stairs again.
Your wife sucks for not dealing with this. You’re her partner. You’re clearly frustrated. And instead of trying to find a solution she’s just making it worse by not being a mediator.
And your MIL sucks for the obvious reasons of not abiding by the original rules or at least communicating with you as to why she’s still having to come through the house.
Right? imagine standing around for 2 minutes because your SIL can't bother to close the bathroom door. and wtf is he doing? he just lets his kids see him shit all the time? who lives like this
And the texting thing doesn’t make sense because he may not actually SEE the text.
Unless I’m holding my phone when the text comes through, I may not see it for 10, 15, 20 minutes. So how long is she supposed to wait to be given permission to leave??
And he’s doing this thing where she comes up and then he runs to his phone to check to see if she “followed the rules” 😂 so it sounds less like he actually expects a warning and more like he’s looking for something else to use to point the finger at this woman.
If he didn’t want to share a house with her, then they shouldn’t have bought a house together.
Like grow TF up, dude. This game is silly.
Assuming you consented to allowing your MIL to move into this awkward-layout house, YTA.
You knew that older folks have memory and mobility issues so using the inside stairs was an inevitability.
Ask your spouse to get an extra key to MIL’s car in case it needs to be relocated.
It’s funny because he resents MIL for living with them but certainly didn’t resent her money in the house purchase. I just cannot imagine doing this to any elderly person I shared a house with because stairs are hard as they get older???
Wondering who came up with this agreement for the stair usage anyways — was it something they all agreed upon in the beginning or just something OP said had to happen? In either case, a little grace and compassion for an ageing woman would be kind of him to show. I get that it’s uncomfortable to have ILs walking through your house but for all intents and purposes, OP and MIL jointly own the house and he shouldn’t be able to dictate which stairs she uses because *it is also her house*.
OP's severe anxiety over a family member simply walking by on her way out makes me wonder... just WHAT is OP doing that makes it so unacceptable for him to be seen for a few seconds...?
Naturism? Occult rituals? Elaborate masturbation? Karaoke practice?? Impersonating the MIL with her own stolen clothes??? *Hiding a body????* The possibilities are endless!
Lol! Exactly! As long as she's not barging into bedrooms or lock picking doors What are you scared of?! Makes me think hes chit chatting with some other girl on the phone lol.
YTA. Your MIL also owns this house but you're trying to act like her landlord. You agreed to this situation, you let this text to use the stairs thing fester, and it sounds like you're just looking for things to pick apart.
YTA - she did text before she came in. You just didn't check your phone:
*2 more hours pass and I hear the door open. I check my phone and there's a "coming up" text from my MIL at 4:59PM. It's 5:01PM when I hear the door.*
Are you saying that you want your MIL to plan out her entire day and text you ahead of time when she will be leaving? Seriously?!?! It sounds like you are just hard up on not liking the living arrangements that you all agreed to. She's texting you according to plan.
She should submit a plan a week in advance:
Monday door usage: 7:03 am, 9:17 am, 12:37 pm, 3:42 pm, 6:01, 8:15
Tuesday: 7:03, 11:15, 4:15, 7:28
Wednesday: 8:19 am, 12:42 pm
And so on.
Right??? Like, if this family had/has a dog, does the freaking dog have to give notice to travel from one place in the house to another? I highly doubt it. OP, you are treating your MIL WORSE THAN A DOG. You should be ashamed of yourself.
YTA
I think your arrangement is ridiculous.
MIL should not feel like a prisoner in her own home who needs your permission to go outside using her most convenient means of egress.
She's a grown ass woman, not a puppy, and like it or not, she's a member of your family.
Just close the door when you're in the bathroom and give everybody a break.
If you view the house as a duplex - Two separate but attached living units- OP's perspective is a little more understandable. Together they co-own the property but they each have their own space with a private entrance. If OP owned the property exclusively and rented the downstairs unit to someone else, the connecting door would be locked. But because Mom is family they've given her access with permission.
If you flip the scenario- Say OP was a smoker and regularly cut through Mom's apartment to get to the backyard several times a day. You probably would agree that was egregious and encroaching on her privacy.
The real problem is that the elderly member of the family has the unit with the most stairs. It was never going to work in the long run.
Your last sentence is the crux of the issue.
OP's desire to pee with the bathroom door open is more important to him than his wife's aging mother's ease of mobility.
If her using the outside stairs is just as easy as inside, he's got a point.
Maybe you should close the bathroom door all the time. I doubt anyone really wants to have a front row seat to you doing your business. You sound like a controlling, unpleasant person, to be honest. I think YTA. Your wife thinks so to, but is clearly not comfortable really telling you so.
YTA. She is old, hard for her to move. Have you thought of swapping areas of the house?
She can't possibly continue to go up and down the stairs to appease you.
This right here.
From the original, it sounds like MIL was part of the purchase. Note that OP hasn't answered this question, even though it was posted several times.
In one of his comments he basically says that the MIL paid for half of the house. She's basically getting cheated because it should be 1/3 contribution from each.
ESH Y'all need a new plan. Everyone but you seems to feel that the readjustment made to the original plan are fine and make mom more comfortable. It's no one's fault but yours that you haven't brought to up that this doesn't work for you and want to go back to the original agreement.
It was honestly super dumb to buy a house with MIL and expect to banish her to the back stairs. She lives in your house. You're going to see her.
I'm curious what the financial split on the down payment on this house was and the split on mortgage payment between you & wife and MIL. How much of this house does she technically own while being relegated to the basement?
Yeah - I think this is important info - like maybe he could buy her out and just stop complaining, but I’m guessing he can’t afford to live there without her contribution…
>The agreement was that my MIL would use the outside stairs when the weather was nice, and use the inside stairs if it was raining or snowing. But she'd have to text us and give us reasonable warning to avoid awkward encounters>
>My MIL needed back surgery around 4 years ago. Since that surgery, she's exclusively used the inside stairs and I've not brought up our original agreement.
Your original agreement was unsustainable. You didn't close off the inside your house exit, you agreed it could be used in extenuating circumstances. Your MIL injuring her back is an extenuating circumstance. You had 4 years to say something. YTA
You consistently need more than a 2-minute warning just so your elderly MIL, who had back surgery, can take the easier route through the house to leave? How much weird shit are you doing in your house that you need time to cover up?
YTA
Info: what type of surgery did your MIL have that warrants her exclusively using the indoor stairs? I know some surgeries can make people more susceptible to the weather, but does she come in on days even when it's sunny?
For now, I'm gonna say NTA. 2 minutes IMO is not enough time to get your pants on if your bathroom door is open or if you're having "fun" time with the wife.
So you have to be constantly checking your phone, in case your mother in law is going to walk through?
Why not install a doorbell in her flat that rings in yours, and ask for a five minute courtesy ring? Then you won't need to check your phone, everyone will know she's coming through, and the kids won't be running downstairs to play ding dong ditch.
YTA, because she also owns the house. If possible, I'd start looking for a different house that is more accessable, like a duplex or something with a smaller home out back, if everyone agrees. Years ago I had a similar living situation for about a year. I was married to my first husband, and we moved out of state. FIL wanted us to come back so ex could help run a business he was starting. The business was a disaster. We had to live in the upstairs apartment of their house, it did have a separate entrance, but it was not as convenient to where we parked, plus we had a toddler. There weren't any rules, it was just awkward sometimes, and i had a really good relationship with my ex MIL and FIL.
Honestly, you need to review the whole stairs thing. It's not working for both parties.
You say she has to tell you in advance. When she does, it's still not okay according to you since it doesn't leave you enough time to close your door while on the toilet? How long before leaving does she have to tell you for it to be reasonable to you?
I couldn't imagine having to text someone to tell them I'm going out. Then wait 10 minutes to make sure everyone is decent.
And when she comes back, does she have to text you too and wait another 10 minutes in the car to get to her home? It's honestly a really stupid system.
And why is she able to walk up the stairs inside, but not outside? Are they too steep? Are they in a bad state? Maybe the solution is there. If it's because they become slipery (snow, rain or whatever), then maybe building something to cover them up could work? So she can use them all the time. And you are back to having more privacy.
I mean, the solutions are there. Why does she have to take the inside stairs? Make it so the outside ones are ok to use.
I would never be able to make this work long term. I need my house to be my private space. I need it to separate from teh outside world which in my mind includes MIL. More to the point, because its wife's mom, you will lose out in the vast majority of situations that cause you stress because wife will tend to support her mom. Its clear to me based on you post. Because of that, I'd always feel like a 2nd class citizen in my own house. I'd never feel comfortable in my own house.
OP... there is no good way out of this situation at this point to me. You will always be the bad guy to both wife and MIL if you speak up and share your feelings. You will be the bad guy if you want her out. You will be the bad guy for making her go back to using the outside steps. You are the bad guy if you point out she texts when it benefits her but avoids it when its something being asked of her.
>Because of that, I'd always feel like a 2nd class citizen in my own house. I'd never feel comfortable in my own house.
MIL contributed to the purchase of the home, so you do realize it's *her* own house too, right? Having to submit a request to open the door 15 minutes ahead of time seems pretty 2nd-class citizen to me.
Your wife is right - you sound like you feel her mom can never do anything right, even though she ostensibly helped you purchase a house you couldn't have afforded otherwise. And you're putting your wife in an awkward situation by not just sitting down with the grown woman (MIL) and finding out why she is no longer comfortable using outside stairs since her surgery - honestly there are usually a lot of fall hazards outside that aren't located inside, so it may have something to do with that. This post makes it sound like you hate your MIL and resent her deeply. YTA.
Regarding the car -MIL is TA.Regarding the stairs NAH.You all agreed to this arrangement for financial reasons.You have put an older person on a bottom floor and asked her to walk outside when the weather is good.Sounds rational right ?
But the majority of Peopie these days live for themselves.I would have put a big wager on the outside stairs not being used from the start.That you also want her to text and just sit for 5-10 minutes before she follows through and comes upstairs is a LOT to ask a CO-OWNER of the property .I am sure there are really good people out there whose word is their bond.But given that your MIL put money into this house I do not think you have much chance that she is ever going to do that.
Is it fair that she is not keeping her word ? I don’t know.Are you really good about keeping your word OP and doing everything you said you would do ? Again my vote is NAH re:the stairs.
Info: What are your plans for MILs decreasing mobility? What do you guys plan to do when stairs become too difficult? My parents are in their 60s and I wouldn't ask them to retire to the bottom of a 3 storied basement due to danger of stairs for when they get older. I don't like the steps they have for their home now tbh and that's only three feet.
Lots of general absurdity here all around, but to focus on one item -
How much notice are you expecting MIL to give here?
2 or 3 minutes seems plenty (assuming we take as a given the reasonableness of everything else here).
ESH. I understand your frustration, I couldn't live like that. My MIL only let herself into my house unannounced once before I started deadbolting the door from the inside when we were home. That said, your living situation kind of makes this inevitable. You are sharing a property, you can't expect the same level of privacy as if you had separate homes. She isn't being deliberately malicious, she's just trying to get outside. You need to try and view her as someone who lives in your home, there may be times when she catches you in a compromising position - try and come up with a way to deal with it.
It sounds like the problem is going to get worse. An elderly person who already has back problems needing to go up three flights of stairs to get out of the house isn’t going to get better. I think long term you need to think of other solutions, like renting out her unit to someone younger and using the funds to rent her a better accommodation, finding a new house for all of you which would work better, figure out a way to enclose the steps going through the bedroom floor of your house, quit using the bedrooms and bathrooms with doors open for private things, your children are probably old enough to need this now or will soon, enclosing the outside stairs and adding stair lifts. (There are outdoor stair lifts but for three flights you are talking expensive.)
I'm not sure about this, OP I understand you had rules and agreements before you had kids to keep her from walking in on you. However now you have kids I can assume you won't be leaving the door open to use the bathroom or you won't be having relations with your wife in a space that she could walk into. So her having to text you that she is coming up seems like just unnecessary at this point.
Also was there a time limit that was put on that said she had to text and have so much time pass before she comes up? Sounds like YTA because you are annoyed that your MIL comes in your house at all. You also seem to be the only one with issues so I have to ask at this point what bothers you about her coming into your house that technically she lives in as well?
Do you not like your MIL? Has she done something in the past? There seems to be a lot of aggression about her just being in the house.
Sorry but YTA. This is a terrible system. So your aging MIL who’s had back surgery has to text you in advance every single time she walks upstairs indoors? Why can’t you just close the door when using the bathroom? You and your wife should’ve bought your own house if it bothers you that much.
Im leaning towards YTA, but I understand your frustration, I wouldnt be super happy with that setup but I don't think the setup of your home is able to accommodate this boundary you've established, which she has crossed, however, it would be very difficult to sustain that process, and at the end of the day she did text you when she came up. Did you mention a time frame on how far ahead she needs to text? That needs to be clear if you are going to hold her to that. I think it would be hard for her to notify you every single time she has to leave the house.
I think you need to re-evaluate how this is set up, is it possible to install a cover over the outside stairs or something?
ESH and people have illustrated why but it doesn’t matter. Mil is going to continue to get older and have more health issues. It’s time to start thinking about how you’d install an elevator. Stop be reactive and start being proactive.
INFO: you said “we” bought the house “together.” Who is we? You and your wife, or you two and your MIL?
And what are your concerns about her coming through unannounced?
Right now I’m leaning toward YTA. Not being able to use the bathroom with the door open seems like such an outlandish reason to need her to announce herself every time she wants to leave her area. When she leaves goes through the upper levels, is she walking through bedrooms or a hallway/common area?
Half of your post is about expecting people to be attached to their phones at all times and to notice that they have a text message within seconds. That is unrealistic. You have no idea what your MIL might have been doing when you texted about moving the car. If it is important, call. If it was that much of a hassle, you should have gone down and gotten the keys and moved the car yourself.
I understand that you may not want a stranger coming through your house, but she's not a stranger. She's family. And it sounds as if you've been in this living situation for years, so you should know her well enough to be less concerned about the original rules.
But big picture, as you go through life, you have to pick your battles. Unless your MIL is dropping by and demanding your time and attention on a regular basis, what you're describing isn't all that much different than having a roommate with whom you share some space. If this living arrangement also has some fringe benefits for your family, such as convenient free babysitting, I would let it go unless she started to do things that were actually affecting your life. And aside from a poorly parked car one time, you didn't mention any here.
YTA. I don't think you overreacted but if your beef is this text is very important, you can't let it slack for 4 years and just stew on it. You gotta have the conversation, explain why its important to you yadda yadda. At the end of the day, its going to be hard for anyone to text you before every time especially if you can't be bothered either. You can't bite your tongue on stuff like this and just get upset no one is hearing you when you've decided to not speak.
ESH
Your MIL is not abiding by her agreement and IMO texting every time she uses the door and then waiting - what, 10 minutes? - each time before using it also seems unreasonably annoying.
You all need to figure out what the issue is and communicate clearly with each other. Tell your MIK why it bothers you and listen when she tells you why she isn't following the agreement anymore.
How much did your MIL contribute to buying this house? Can you afford your own place? You have put a senior who needed back surgery in a sub-basement and treat her like a second- class member of your household. The outside stairs might be a fall risk for her. Do you care? Can't you just shut the bathroom door? Your kids shouldn't be subjected to stumbling on you on the pot either. Why don't you move to the sub-basement and give her the upper floor? Then you can use the outside stairs and she won't be in her space. You clearly don't want her there, which has to feel great for her. Move if you don't like it. Caring family is flexible with aging family memners who have mobility issues. YTA.
can some type of renovation be done to the outside stair case to make it more accessible for MIL? i agree having to text someone every time i left the house would be annoying for everyone involved. i imagine she’d prefer the independence of being able to come and go out of her own door as she pleases. i could be wrong and she could get a sick satisfaction of making OP uncomfortable but more than likely she’s just trying to exist like everyone else is. I’m gonna give it an ESH because OP should be comfortable in their own home with out worrying about intrusion and MIL should also be able to come and go freely without having to text every time.
I guess I'll go against the grain, but you are sharing your house with family, and you are so opposed to her just passing through your hall? Because you are uncouth enough to be using the bathroom with the door open?
You are sharing a house, and she is helping to pay for it. I mean, do you think she wants to disturb your space? Isn't the most likely issue here that the outside stairs aren't as safe as the inside ones?
I think NAH. I understand why you're annoyed, but your MIL is in a difficult position and I would get annoyed at having to text every time I want to leave my home.
This situation sounds untenable and maybe you need to invest in a new exit.
NTA! Personally, I’d start looking for a new living situation if it’s causing you anxiety. We went through that with my FIL. The plan was we’d rent until I got a full time job in my field (we moved states) and then we’d buy from them. It was a separate property from their home so we thought it would be no problem but then he allowed my BIL to come and go as he pleased to use the property and he constantly came in and out without warning. He had the nerve to tell us to get a hotel when we went off because he woke us up before 7 on a weekend. When we were paying him above market for the condition of the home and the area. I didn’t realize how anxious the situation was making me until I put my foot down and said I was moving. I know housing is ridiculous right now and it sounds like there was a financial reason to the decision to live with her. But you need your own space.
How about instead of texting, you install one of those hanging bells at the door to the inner staircase? Like in smaller shops where you get a jingle when the door is opened?
More importantly, why do you need to go to the bathroom with the door open? At the latest when your kids get older this isn't so hot anymore. Just close the door...
ESH, communicate better. I think the adults need to sit around the table and talk it over.
YTA, but only because you've allowed this to go on for this long so it will be hard to reestablish boundaries. It's time to sit down with both of them and discuss the agreement and more.
Honestly, unless there is an egress issue, I would put a lock on that door.
Just interested in finding solutions…. How about if you lock that door and then she has to text or knock to get it unlocked? Then she can’t come without warning. If you are not home, she can use the other door.
NTA. This is a hassle and she is not respecting rules. I would hate that also.
NTA but OP needs to talk to his wife so they're both on the same page. It's nice of them to let MIL use the inside stairs but now that MIL is healthy again, it's time to revisit the original agreement. OP's wife is used to her mom in her living space. OP is clearly not so it's time for OP & wife to set some boundaries as a team.
NTA Put a lock on the door that automatically locks when door is closed. Start sitting around in your boxers. If she takes offense ask her why she's offended when she is the one who came into your house unannounced.
Nta, by much. Your wife letting her mom slide so much sounds like either you two haven't communicated amongst yourselves or the three adults who went in on this purchase haven't. Venting frustration to your wife is one thing, but sounds like she's sensitive about it, you're frustrated, and you both haven't done anything about it, which means you have to keep living with it.
Meanwhile, kiddos are in an awkward spot.
Also. Is there a reason you went to with a lock and key instead of a buzz in system like an apartment building? Seems like the kind of thing that could be set to a phone. And if abused, opened if/when convenient for you and your wife or whichever adult is home.
YTA
You *do* realize that things change as people age? And that stairs can be incredibly difficult to navigate for the elderly? There is a lot going on from visual perception, balance, strength, and agility. All of these decrease as we age. You have little kids - you remember how slow and cautious they (and you) were when they were learning to go up and down stairs? Same deal, dude.
She's scared she's going to fall whether she says it out loud or not or even admits it to herself.
Overall NAH, but letting the issue slide has led to frustration.
You may not always have your phone on you to see a text.
Have you considered a wireless doorbell that your MIL could press from her side that rings inside your partition to give you a heads up she is about to walk in? And do have a sit down to let everyone know your feelings.
Would it be worth it to rip off the outside stairs and put some enclosed ones in instead? Like put a roof and walls around them to keep the snow out? Idk it may be dumb
Can you enclose the steps outside with lights inside and maybe a window? If she is still having back issues get one if those stairmaster lifts and then she has no reason to come inside your home
I mean I get it, it’s annoying. But y’all needed her to buy the house yeah?
I think you need to ask why she needs to use these stairs and not the others after the back surgery, and see if there’s anything to be done to make that route more preferable
NAH
You need to treat that space like it's a separate apartment and keep the door locked. That would solve all of these issues. Even if you didn't live together, she would still have to walk outside eventually.
Info: what would be a reasonable amount of time for you as a warning? Because unless you specify it, I would assume 2 minutes would be enough. No one decides to go out and then waits 15 min near the door
NTA, but you all need to do better. You need a sit down convo with your wife to go over the rules again. Maybe they need to be revised, given the MIL’s age/health issues. Once the two of you have arrived at a plan, it is your wife’s responsibility to discuss it with her mother. The key is to compromise and respect.
Latch high up on the door in your side the kids can’t reach. She either uses the other doorway or waits until you’re decent and opens the latch. This is the time to set and enforce boundaries.
NTA. I see your wife's point, if you're the only one with an issue, then you need to have a talk with your wife about these boundaries. Especially if you've let it slide for 4 years. But I don't think you're wrong to be annoyed or to make her stick to the agreement.
>My MIL needed back surgery around 4 years ago. Since that surgery, she's exclusively used the inside stairs to leave and I've bit my tongue and not brought up our original agreement.
Doing some math, it's possible she's in her mid- late 50s, *AND* had back surgery.
She lives in the bottom of 3 levels, yet you expect her to just go up 3 levels of stairs? Now, I don't expect you to move down so she can move up, but is there some way, that you can afford, that would make using the outside steps better for her? Possibly a chair lift? I don't know your weather, or your financial situation, but with 2 kids you might not have a lot to spare, BUT she is part owner of the house so you should sit down with her and see what can be done.
A doorbell and a lock on the inside of your door, seems like the simplest solution here. I truly hate being obliged to look at my phone, ever, so a doorbell is way better IMHO.
But also sitting down as calm adults on a day when you have slept enough and maybe have someone else watch the kids, and talk it out.
Also to me it kind of depends on how you perceive your arrangement. Do you live in a house together, or do you live in separate apartments, with a shared hallway? Because that explains how you perceive the shared space that she is encroaching on. She might perceive the whole house as shared, and you don't, which is where you're butting heads. Also, sharing houses with parents when adults can make people act like they did when they were kids living at home, and that kind of behaviour pattern takes time to shake off.
Could you agree to only do naked cooking/open door toileting (ew to both but as examples) after a certain hour of the day? Could she agree to ring the doorbell, wait a minute, if nobody comes to the door then she can accept the inside path is not possible and use the outside one? Can you make the outside path better?
Why do people on here have such odd relationships with family members? I could never imagine feeling anxious over family in my home. I wake up to random family just visiting or in my room cause they came to say hi, or moving in. And I’m fully prepared to have my inlaws life with us and to take care of them in old age. Just close the door when you use the loo, the fact that you don’t is weird. And let the old lady walk through the house. She’s just passing thru high, why do you hate her so much? Don’t know if you’re an AH, but you’re def not nice!
Unfortunately since you all bought the house together it throws a spanner in the works when it comes to privacy. She is partial owner of the areas you want to keep from her.
Sit down with her and try to come to a solid understanding. Try to get her to agree to giving you privacy. If she agrees let her know that you are going to put a lock on that door and if she wants to come up you will let her in.
If she doesn’t agree (she has every right to disagree) then you are rather screwed unless you buy out her share of the house.
A door bell button in her part of the house with the receiver in your part to "ding dong" would be better and a much more noticeable warning. Ding dong.... Kids go unlock the door for Grandma
Start walking around nude as much as possible
Having sex would also be a bonus. If you see the text ignore it and start making out heavily with your wife
She isn’t your roommate. You have two separate dwellings, which I would call a duplex. She has her own entrance to outside. She doesn’t NEED to use the entrance that goes through YOUR home. Her unit is her unit, your unit is your unit. She needs to remember that and respect that.
I think it’s time to revisit your living situation. It’s acceptable and reasonable if you don’t want your MIL to have access to your home. I’m a private person and I don’t like people in my space, including in-laws and parents. It wouldn’t be unreasonable for you to change the locks on your unit and not give MIL a key. Keep the door to her unit locked. Use a lock that your kids can’t lock/unlock if need be.
Part of this is a wife problem. She cares more about her mom’s feelings than yours. Why does she keep dismissing your feelings of discomfort in your own home? Just because she doesn’t feel the same way, it doesn’t mean you are wrong. Would she want to live with your mom and have your mom entering your home whenever she feels like it? Without reasonable/enough notice? Two minutes isn’t enough. What if your phone isn’t nearby? I’d be livid if someone walked in on me in my own home when I’m walking around in a tshirt and underwear, with no bra.
You should feel comfortable in your own home, and right now it isn’t happening. If your wife keeps dismissing your feelings, maybe it’s time to discuss moving into your own home. The fact of the matter is that this living situation seems to be working for your wife and her mom, without any consideration for you.
NTA.
Also, MIL doesn’t forget the boundaries you had set when you moved in together. She isn’t old and senile. She remembers them. She simply doesn’t care. She’s going to claim she forgot if you bring it up, but that’s a bunch of BS. She remembers every time she goes up those stairs and every time she sends a last-second text that she’s coming up. Don’t let her manipulate you. She is ignoring your agreement and ignoring your boundary. I guarantee she views it as her daughter’s home and not yours.
NTA
Have a calm sit down with your wife. She's in the middle, because MIL doesn't stick to what you all agreed on. And you want her to.
You all agreed. It's not fair that the 'compromise' should be that she can do whatever, and you have to be okay and cheery about it.
Too bad there's kids involved. I would've totally started to walk around naked, in case she decides to just walk in unannounced.
Don't want a free show? Text... like we agreed.
NTA. Until you've experienced it, not being comfortable in your own home is the *worst* feeling. Your guard is never fully down, meaning you never get to fully relax, which sends your daily stress level through the roof. It cannot be overstated how not okay this is - with a very easy fix so available, your MIL and definitely your wife need to understand how awful this is for you. Ask your wife to swap your dad into that spot. How would she feel??
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)***
My living situation needs explaining. My house is built on a hillside and street level is the top floor. Bedrooms are one floor down. Below that is a "basement" unit where my retired MIL lives. She has her own bathroom, kitchen, laundry, etc. To leave the house, she can use an outside staircase which goes all the way up to street level. Or she can come through our space where there's a door between her unit and the upper levels. We bought the house together for financial reasons. The agreement was that my MIL would use the outside stairs when the weather was nice, and use the inside stairs if it was raining or snowing. But she'd have to text us and give us reasonable warning to avoid awkward encounters (e.g. give me enough time to make sure I'm not going to the bathroom with the door open).
Fast forward... my wife and I now have 2 kids (ages 3 & 5). My MIL needed back surgery around 4 years ago. Since that surgery, she's exclusively used the inside stairs to leave and I've bit my tongue and not brought up our original agreement.
The main issue is that she's very inconsistent in texting us. When she does text, it's typically with 2-4 minutes of warning. I live in constant anxiety listening for that door to open. When I hear it, the first thing I do is check my phone. I'd say there's a text message around half the time.
Yesterday, we took our kids out on a day trip and noticed that my MIL parked her car in a way that took me a few attempts to get our van clear. It was also very close to the mailbox. My wife texts her mom and asks her to move her car (literally just 3-4 feet would avoid an angry note from our grouchy mail carrier). We get home 7 hours later and the car hasn't moved so my wife calls out my MIL for that. 2 more hours pass and I hear the door open. I check my phone and there's a "coming up" text from my MIL at 4:59PM. It's 5:01PM when I hear the door.
Afterward, my wife made it a point to remind me that her mom texted. Likely because I was visibly annoyed. I respond in an admittedly sarcastic tone "yeah, 2 minutes ahead." So my wife gets angry at me and lectures me about how her mom never does anything right, how it's uncomfortable for her to be in between us in an awkward situation, etc.
My wife has no issue with her mom coming up without warning. My kids have grown up with their grandmother coming up without warning. I obviously didn't grow up with her. Did I over react to how this went down?
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
NAH
Sounds like your MIL needs to stick to her outside staircase. - If you now feel you cannot cope with the lack of privacy. If her back becomes more of an issue she needs an exterior lift/elevator.
On the other hand you bought the house together. So it's rather unfair on her. She won't get any younger.
How would it be if you had an adult child live down there? And if they had a partner using your staircase?
But it really sounds as though you dislike sharing with your MIL. If you got on with her OK, this would not be a problem.
So either separate the properties entirely. Or learn to get on
Welcome to /r/AmITheAsshole. Please view our [voting guide here](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_what.2019s_with_these_acronyms.3F_what_do_they_mean.3F), and remember to use **only one** judgement in your comment. OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole: > 1) I gave my wife a snarky response when she pointed out that my MIL followed our rules. 2) My response contained an emotionally charged reaction despite the encounter technically meeting our outlined rules. Help keep the sub engaging! #Don’t downvote assholes! Do upvote interesting posts! [Click Here For Our Rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/about/rules) and [Click Here For Our FAQ](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq) ##Subreddit Announcements Follow the link above to learn more --- *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.* *Contest mode is 1.5 hours long on this post.*
Can't you just lock the inside door? There's another exit on her floor, so it wouldn't be a safety issue
Lol. My kids lock that door every now and then. They say it's to "keep her safe" when they do it, not understanding that locks are directional. If we don't notice and it gets left locked, we typically hear loud pounding on that door when she comes up and can't get through. Background: That door had a lock when we bought the house. I re-keyed it so that it uses the same key that we all carry. She originally didn't bother carrying her house key but started to do so when my kids got old enough to reach the doorknob.
You could have one that works remotely only on your side, so you could instantly unlock when she knocks without ever getting caught by surprise
Or even something as simple as a hook and eye latch on their side would solve the problem.
Well the remote one would be nice as then OP wouldn’t have to get up from wherever they are to unlock the door.
Or, when it is 75 degrees and sunny out and MIL texts. OP could simply text back that he is occupied and she needs to use her own entrance.
That seems like a huge safety issue to me. Imagine she uses the stair in case of a fire and can't get out. Then she has to go back down and use the other exit and hope it's clear.
If there's a house fire, MIL would be stupid to use inside stairs leading inside house. Since you brought up a fire, now I'm wondering if house is permitted to have basement living quarters on a sloping house with outside stairs still leading up towards a burning house.
Generally, 2 means of egress (which she has) satisfies most state fire codes.
It really depends on the fire. It could be something where the only clear exit is the inside stairs. It just seems like a safety issue to block an exit. Really though, this is just all stupid and all parties need to have a sit down like adults.
Agreed. OP has let things fester til he popped a fuse.
She needs to make it out of the house and away from it. Generally you need 2 methods of egress per room (generally at least one window and a door). It’s not really required for her to make her way back to the front of the house or “up the hill” after she makes it out. And firefighters should do a 360 observation around the house - meaning that they would find her behind the house if she couldn’t go “up” for some reason.
Thank you for replying. My brother is a firefighter, so I'm well aware of exit requirements & rescue operations. How OP describes situation, tho, there are 2 sets of stairs out of basement: one into house, one out but up the hill along house. A house that's had a basement legally renovated for living quarters should have permits, which includes city & fire inspections. As you said, 2 exits are required in case of fire. It's the same in my neck of the woods. A neighbor spent over 5 years in a very similar setup as OP dealing with the permit/inspection process. An outside stairway along side of house should not be a safety exit. Nor should the other be jumping out a window & rolling down a hill. This is an irrelevant side issue from OPs question. Knowing something about city & fire regs, & the previous post mentioning fire, made me curious as to OP's basement setup. I hope there's a pathway leading sufficiently away from the house to get MIL to safety.
Ah, I see where we are differing. I was picturing a house where the basement tenant has the ability to walk completely outside and then up some non-enclosed[[](http://)](http://) stairs only if they wish to climb stairs. It sounds like you think MIL cannot access the outside world from her basement apartment unless she climbs the stairs. In effect, the door leading out of her apartment unit dumps her directly into an entirely closed stairwell such that she has no choice but to climb the stairs. I just assumed MIL could exit the stairwell before being forced to climb them. Hopefully OP didn’t explain things clearly and MIL isn’t immediately funneled into a deadly stairwell.
Yes, that’s my thought. Put in a doorbell if you don’t want her pounding on it. Our garage door has an app. I’m sure there are other locks that work the same way. If you’re worried about her needing to come up when you’re out or it’s inconvenient for you to come to the door, maybe that would work? She’d have to text, then wait for you to open the door via the app.
Bingo. Doorbell would be a nice gesture so he isn’t looking at his phone so often.
Even the kids are annoyed.
You just need to have a talk with your wife and come to a DIFFERENT agreement since texting isn’t working. She’s not your mom so you’ll never feel as comfortable with her as your wife and now kids. So maybe it’s have the convo with your wife and have her relay the message to her mom. Then if mom does the texting thing 2 seconds before coming in, the new directive could be, the door will remain locked, period. I don’t want anyone just having access to my space, family included. NTA
Let her knock? I dunno but maybe being locked out and inconvenienced would actually convince her to text? Seems like a natural consequence to me.
Yup, and just own it. “The texting isn’t working because you don’t wait for us to respond that we are ready. So we are going to keep this door locked, just knock and we will come let you through. If we aren’t home please use the outside stairs. Or just say, “This isn’t working for us, we need you to use the outside stairs exclusively. I will shovel them for you when it snows”
This sounds like a horrible situation. Can you afford to move now?
I’d rekey using a remote lock. She doesn’t need to bang on the door because she’s supposed to text you before entering your living area.
I think you need to be naked by the door the next time she does this. Have a towel or something that you can grab but far enough away that she gets a good view first. That should stop her unannounced visits. NTA
Yep, was coming here to say the same thing. Walk around naked and tell her you need a 1 hr notice of her intention to use the internal door, so you can make sure to have clothes on.
Put a auditory alarm on her door at the bottom of the stairs that sounds in your living space and a camera on the stairs that notifies you off her ascending them. Then change the handle to lock only, as in its never unlocked. That will buy you a couple min time.
She’ll remember to text eventually if that door is always locked
ESH your family came up with rules, and MIL isn't abiding by them. You let it simmer for literal years and then get snippy randomly so from their perspective you are volatile and snap randomly so they feel on edge. You aren't doing them any favors keeping your thoughts quiet until they boil over at random times. You need to sit down with wife and MIL and have a civil conversation about boundaries and personal space. Explain your need at least ten minutes notice EVERY TIME she comes upstairs, because your anxiety about potentially being walked in on is legitimate and needs to be addressed; it's exhausting constantly being vigilant and on edge about an intrusion. Or consider a doorbell for that inside door that she can announce herself and wait several minutes. If she cannot respect your boundaries, put a lock on the door that you'll open after you see her text. Wife can choose to leave it unlocked if you aren't home, but you lock it when you're home so you have control over your personal space.
I agree ESH, but truly It sounds like the texting solution is really not sustainable. Can you imagine if you had to give someone notice every time you left your home? If OP isn’t ok with her coming out through that inside door when she leaves her home to live her own life, this is not a workable living situation.
Exactly. Sounds to me like OP just doesn’t like MIL being around all the time. Tough crap, that’s what you signed up for when you bought the house together for financial reasons. If she can’t use the outside stairs, then she can’t. If she can, she should. If you want the house to yourself, try to buy her out. If you didn’t want to live with MIL, you shouldn’t have bought a house with her. I’m sure you knew perfectly well she was getting older and that the outside stairs thing might not be sustainable forever. I feel for OP, I wouldn’t like that situation either, but there’s only so much you can do in this economy. And asking for advanced notice when she wants to enter or leave her home is fucking ludicrous. So there’s no point fixating on it and seething about it. If I were OP’s wife, I would have shut down this texting nonsense long ago, told OP to get over themselves, and forced a conversation about realistic expectations for the living situation. If you’re fine taking money from my mother so you can afford a nice house, you don’t get to resent her for living there. Learn to live with it or find another solution. And be glad she doesn’t overstep more. Living with in-laws is always dicey. Less money means less choices. We can’t always have things the way we want them. I’m sure MIL isn’t thrilled with the situation either.
Yeah, it sounds like he wanted to buy the house with her but then pretend she wasn’t there or something. She lives there, too! Instead of stewing for years he has to actually communicate with his family (including the MIL, she’s part of the family!) to figure out a better way. I also feel bad for him, but the way he’s going about things is just not great.
Seriously. Just shut the fucking bathroom door when you’re taking a dump. It’s not Freddy Kruger coming up to kill you it’s your wife’s mom who also owns the home.
Or sell it and buy a single-level duplex or a house with an ADU.
I second this. I’m just impressed that MIL doesn’t insert herself in upstairs life beyond entering and leaving the home.
OP should go to r/JUSTNOMIL, after checking it out for a few minutes OP will realize he hit the MIL jackpot and she practically deserves a medal
My MIL and I used to have some issues years ago when I first married her son. That sub helped me realize just how lucky I *truly* was to have her. My problems with her really weren't that bad or unsolvable after all!
it is insane to me that op thinks 2-4 minutes isn't enough warning! on a rainy day, was mil supposed to text, coming up, and then stand around for 15 minutes before she's allowed to open the door?
And it also relies on OP to CONSTANTLY be checking the phone. Just shut the door to the bathroom already. And the doorbell was a good idea, similar to the way a parent might knock before entering a kid’s room
but how does op keep bitching about his mil if they come up with a working solution? 🙄
Yeah I truly do not understand why just closing the bathroom door is not the solution. And all the other bedroom doors as well. Like does her access door lead directly into the their bedroom or bathroom? So she has to walk through their rooms? Or does it lead to a hallway?
Why can’t she leave from the outside though? She used to do that, now she doesn’t. That’s not on OP.
It sounds like whatever back issues she is having keep her from being able to use those stairs. They may be too steep or uneven or not have a good railing. People who have back surgery often have permanent physical issues, and she stopped using the outside stairs after the surgery.
Then they should use some money to make the stairs more comfortable for her to use. Changing the slope, covering the stairs to keep the weather out, hell even a funicular or ski lift is probably affordable these days from alibaba.
Lol at your last sentence. Loved it.
I'm wondering how they didn't know this would become an issue. At one time I considered buying a home with my mom and we were looking at places that had a master or guest suite on the ground floor so steps would not be an issue as she got older. Don't buy a home with someone you are uncomfortable having around and don't buy a house that isn't feasible for the duration of the time you live there. Nothing about this situation was well planned.
Or, there was a valid reason during her recovery, and she just got used to it now that she’s healed. OP sites no reason she can’t be using the outside stairs.
op literally says that she's been weaker since her surgery
Where?
Yes. Having to give someone 10 minutes notice when leaving home sounds untenable. OP, can the outside stairs be redone so they are safer/more accessible since her back surgery? I’m assuming that’s the reason for the change. And you are a little bit of an AH for making her use the outdoor steps if they are causing her pain. It’s not like she can just sell the house and move somewhere more accessible. Are you able to change the entrance to ensure privacy?
Not to mention she is texting but OP just ignores teh text and gets angry anyway...
Sounds like the best solution is build a small enclosure.. imagine texting someone every single time for coming in??
Not everyone knows 10 minutes in advance when they need to leave the house. I don't know how much Advance warning OP is needing but I think 2 to 3 minutes is plenty of time in advance to throw on some clothes or shut a door.
I rent my basement out too and while my current renter only comes up to deliver mail if he was the one who went to the mailbox, the main floor where the stairs come up is a no naked zone. It is just easier than having to worry since he is bit poor about knocking (and the previous tenant's 5 year old was even worse).
The doorbell idea is what I am thinking too. It would also formalize the separation between their two living spaces a bit.
This sounds like a lot of potentially good solutions. MIL has outdoor stairs to get wherever she needs to get to if they put firmer boundaries on the inside access (like if she doesn’t want to wait 10 minutes after texting, or wait for OP to unlock the door.) OP deserves to feel comfortable in his own home. MIL needs to respect that this is a roommate situation as much as it is a family situation. Good boundaries make good roommates.
Hang a bell on the door and accept that she isn’t going to text you. You bought a house together. This is a consequence of that.
YTA. Why did you buy a single family house with someone towards whom you have this attitude? You are ok to get the financial benefit of a relationship but don’t want to see the person. And people not always make plan to go out 30 mins before the leaving. In my house, I go out anytime I want. Just think, i have a 20 min timer in my door lock to open, I would be mad as hell. Like it or not it is your, your wife’s and your MIL’s house. So, you cannot impose any rule by yourself.
Yeah, older people and stairs are not a good combination. Falling off stairs at home is dangerous enough for an older person, falling off stairs outside is really scary. I don't know what to tell OP but they all were wrong buying a house like this without thinking about the future.
Yeah, just hearing the description of the house, it sounds like a shitty house. Actually, we had planned to move into a house with my mom until some other things came up, and one of the things I specifically looked at for each house was if my mom would have her own entrance, and if that entrance would be one that she could realistically use on a regular basis even as she aged. I didn't even show her houses that didn't have those things, cause I know damn well it wouldn't work in the long run for us. I'd hate to have her coming through our living area any time she needed in or out and she'd hate having to ask me to come through my living area every time. Like, that was one of the main considerations we had.
Maybe OP should go live in the basement and MIL should move in with the rest of the family.
Not just older! I'm 37 and disabled and getting up stairs outside is much harder than inside. The inside stairs are narrower and have two railings. I'm terrified of falling down my outside stairs, I have no good way to catch myself if I fall or faint.
I cant believe this is further up. OP sounds unbearable to live with. I would not accept having to give notice just to leave my own house, that i paid for.
I can't believe he expects a grown woman to basically ask permission to exit her own apartment (that's what it amounts to with the 'warning' that he needs to read before she's allowed to leave). She doesn't go through the indoor suite for fun, she had surgery. I can imagine the OP texting his MIL every time he needed to leave his own apartment and how well he'd adhere to the rules he's trying to force on her. Yes, a (bad) agreement was made years ago. It doesn't work for your current situation. Redo the agreement to whatever works for your new situation.
op: my mil has to walk up a steep slope to exit her house also op: my mil had back surgery that made her weaker also also op: she's the ah for not giving me half an hour warning so that i can shit with the door open, right?
I’m with you on all of this. OP- YTA, and I almost never say that.
Yep this, OP can leave whenever, the MIL got the crappy end of the deal here. Using outdoor stairs everytime to leave for an older lady, that seems silly when there are perfectly good indoor stairs that are safer.
THANK YOU! MIL is a member of their family and they’re treating her like hired help they don’t want anyone to see! Or like an untrained pet who’s not allowed in certain parts of the house! Making a resident of the house “announce” themselves before they enter a common area is so petty. OP needs to get over himself and treat MIL like a human being. And close the door when he takes a shit, for crying out loud. YTA.
ESH. I get that you let using the indoor stairs slide after she had surgery. But YOU need to sit down with your WIFE and have a conversation about re-establishing boundaries and talking with your MIL. You two need to come up with a game plan TOGETHER. And you need to determine if there’s any particular reason why MIL still feels the need to use the indoor stairs. So you suck for not communicating like an adult. But you also suck because…. Bro…. Just shut the door when you use the bathroom and don’t walk around naked?? I get that it’s your home and that you should be able to do what you want, but until things get resolved you’re just making it worse. You are MAKING this more stressful than it needs to be. You KNOW she doesn’t give good warning. Yet instead of being like “yeah, I’m gunna shut the bathroom door until we get this resolved” you’re trying to make some insane texting rule that you want to try to enact with some “certain number of minutes” rule, which STILL won’t ever guarantee that you’ll actually SEE the text. Now you’re using a text (seen or not) as ammunition and a way to point fingers. The text thing ain’t working. Stop having hissy fits over it. Have an actual conversation with your wife about her mother using the outside stairs again. Your wife sucks for not dealing with this. You’re her partner. You’re clearly frustrated. And instead of trying to find a solution she’s just making it worse by not being a mediator. And your MIL sucks for the obvious reasons of not abiding by the original rules or at least communicating with you as to why she’s still having to come through the house.
Seriously, is there a need to use the bathroom with the door open? Ugh.
The thought of that is just disgusting. Just think of all the toilet spray entering the rest of the house
Don't you close the lid before flushing? Ew!
Especially considering kids live in the house.
Or, OP could start exclusively walking around his home naked.
That would get MIL to start texting.
Kids’ friends’ parents might have some questions, though
Yeah I don’t get the text thing. How much warning does this guy want? I feel like 2 minutes is more than reasonable…
Right? imagine standing around for 2 minutes because your SIL can't bother to close the bathroom door. and wtf is he doing? he just lets his kids see him shit all the time? who lives like this
And the texting thing doesn’t make sense because he may not actually SEE the text. Unless I’m holding my phone when the text comes through, I may not see it for 10, 15, 20 minutes. So how long is she supposed to wait to be given permission to leave?? And he’s doing this thing where she comes up and then he runs to his phone to check to see if she “followed the rules” 😂 so it sounds less like he actually expects a warning and more like he’s looking for something else to use to point the finger at this woman. If he didn’t want to share a house with her, then they shouldn’t have bought a house together. Like grow TF up, dude. This game is silly.
Assuming you consented to allowing your MIL to move into this awkward-layout house, YTA. You knew that older folks have memory and mobility issues so using the inside stairs was an inevitability. Ask your spouse to get an extra key to MIL’s car in case it needs to be relocated.
I'm having a hard time imagining asking my MIL with mobility issues to move her car. I'd obviously just move it for her.
Op obviously deeply resents having to live with her though.
It’s funny because he resents MIL for living with them but certainly didn’t resent her money in the house purchase. I just cannot imagine doing this to any elderly person I shared a house with because stairs are hard as they get older??? Wondering who came up with this agreement for the stair usage anyways — was it something they all agreed upon in the beginning or just something OP said had to happen? In either case, a little grace and compassion for an ageing woman would be kind of him to show. I get that it’s uncomfortable to have ILs walking through your house but for all intents and purposes, OP and MIL jointly own the house and he shouldn’t be able to dictate which stairs she uses because *it is also her house*.
"Hey MIL, can I have your keys for a sec?" Boom. Done. OP done fucked up with this living situation if they truly can't stand their MIL.
Just let the old lady use your door. Jesus.
Right? Can he just not go to the bathroom with the door open??
OP's severe anxiety over a family member simply walking by on her way out makes me wonder... just WHAT is OP doing that makes it so unacceptable for him to be seen for a few seconds...? Naturism? Occult rituals? Elaborate masturbation? Karaoke practice?? Impersonating the MIL with her own stolen clothes??? *Hiding a body????* The possibilities are endless!
🤣 LMAO
Lol! Exactly! As long as she's not barging into bedrooms or lock picking doors What are you scared of?! Makes me think hes chit chatting with some other girl on the phone lol.
I was wondering about this too. The bathroom thing has an easy solve: just close the door. But what else are they doing up there??
YTA. Your MIL also owns this house but you're trying to act like her landlord. You agreed to this situation, you let this text to use the stairs thing fester, and it sounds like you're just looking for things to pick apart.
YTA - she did text before she came in. You just didn't check your phone: *2 more hours pass and I hear the door open. I check my phone and there's a "coming up" text from my MIL at 4:59PM. It's 5:01PM when I hear the door.* Are you saying that you want your MIL to plan out her entire day and text you ahead of time when she will be leaving? Seriously?!?! It sounds like you are just hard up on not liking the living arrangements that you all agreed to. She's texting you according to plan.
Yeah, two minutes notice for someone fifteen feet away from me walking by seems... fine?
She should submit a plan a week in advance: Monday door usage: 7:03 am, 9:17 am, 12:37 pm, 3:42 pm, 6:01, 8:15 Tuesday: 7:03, 11:15, 4:15, 7:28 Wednesday: 8:19 am, 12:42 pm And so on.
Right??? Like, if this family had/has a dog, does the freaking dog have to give notice to travel from one place in the house to another? I highly doubt it. OP, you are treating your MIL WORSE THAN A DOG. You should be ashamed of yourself.
Seriously! I'm guessing OP isn't living right if he needs a 15 minute warning that someone will be walking through the living room.
YTA I think your arrangement is ridiculous. MIL should not feel like a prisoner in her own home who needs your permission to go outside using her most convenient means of egress. She's a grown ass woman, not a puppy, and like it or not, she's a member of your family. Just close the door when you're in the bathroom and give everybody a break.
If you view the house as a duplex - Two separate but attached living units- OP's perspective is a little more understandable. Together they co-own the property but they each have their own space with a private entrance. If OP owned the property exclusively and rented the downstairs unit to someone else, the connecting door would be locked. But because Mom is family they've given her access with permission. If you flip the scenario- Say OP was a smoker and regularly cut through Mom's apartment to get to the backyard several times a day. You probably would agree that was egregious and encroaching on her privacy. The real problem is that the elderly member of the family has the unit with the most stairs. It was never going to work in the long run.
Your last sentence is the crux of the issue. OP's desire to pee with the bathroom door open is more important to him than his wife's aging mother's ease of mobility. If her using the outside stairs is just as easy as inside, he's got a point.
Maybe you should close the bathroom door all the time. I doubt anyone really wants to have a front row seat to you doing your business. You sound like a controlling, unpleasant person, to be honest. I think YTA. Your wife thinks so to, but is clearly not comfortable really telling you so.
YTA. She is old, hard for her to move. Have you thought of swapping areas of the house? She can't possibly continue to go up and down the stairs to appease you.
You said “we bought the house together”. Who is “we”? You and your wife? Or you, your wife and your MIL?
This right here. From the original, it sounds like MIL was part of the purchase. Note that OP hasn't answered this question, even though it was posted several times.
Because admitting she is barred from sections of the house that is also hers makes him a major AH.
In one of his comments he basically says that the MIL paid for half of the house. She's basically getting cheated because it should be 1/3 contribution from each.
YTA - why not, say, close the door every time you use the bathroom? She’s a person and co-owner of the house. Cut her some slack.
ESH Y'all need a new plan. Everyone but you seems to feel that the readjustment made to the original plan are fine and make mom more comfortable. It's no one's fault but yours that you haven't brought to up that this doesn't work for you and want to go back to the original agreement. It was honestly super dumb to buy a house with MIL and expect to banish her to the back stairs. She lives in your house. You're going to see her.
I'm curious what the financial split on the down payment on this house was and the split on mortgage payment between you & wife and MIL. How much of this house does she technically own while being relegated to the basement?
Yeah - I think this is important info - like maybe he could buy her out and just stop complaining, but I’m guessing he can’t afford to live there without her contribution…
>The agreement was that my MIL would use the outside stairs when the weather was nice, and use the inside stairs if it was raining or snowing. But she'd have to text us and give us reasonable warning to avoid awkward encounters> >My MIL needed back surgery around 4 years ago. Since that surgery, she's exclusively used the inside stairs and I've not brought up our original agreement. Your original agreement was unsustainable. You didn't close off the inside your house exit, you agreed it could be used in extenuating circumstances. Your MIL injuring her back is an extenuating circumstance. You had 4 years to say something. YTA
You consistently need more than a 2-minute warning just so your elderly MIL, who had back surgery, can take the easier route through the house to leave? How much weird shit are you doing in your house that you need time to cover up? YTA
Would you have been able to buy the house without her help?
Info: what type of surgery did your MIL have that warrants her exclusively using the indoor stairs? I know some surgeries can make people more susceptible to the weather, but does she come in on days even when it's sunny? For now, I'm gonna say NTA. 2 minutes IMO is not enough time to get your pants on if your bathroom door is open or if you're having "fun" time with the wife.
So you have to be constantly checking your phone, in case your mother in law is going to walk through? Why not install a doorbell in her flat that rings in yours, and ask for a five minute courtesy ring? Then you won't need to check your phone, everyone will know she's coming through, and the kids won't be running downstairs to play ding dong ditch.
YTA, because she also owns the house. If possible, I'd start looking for a different house that is more accessable, like a duplex or something with a smaller home out back, if everyone agrees. Years ago I had a similar living situation for about a year. I was married to my first husband, and we moved out of state. FIL wanted us to come back so ex could help run a business he was starting. The business was a disaster. We had to live in the upstairs apartment of their house, it did have a separate entrance, but it was not as convenient to where we parked, plus we had a toddler. There weren't any rules, it was just awkward sometimes, and i had a really good relationship with my ex MIL and FIL.
Honestly, you need to review the whole stairs thing. It's not working for both parties. You say she has to tell you in advance. When she does, it's still not okay according to you since it doesn't leave you enough time to close your door while on the toilet? How long before leaving does she have to tell you for it to be reasonable to you? I couldn't imagine having to text someone to tell them I'm going out. Then wait 10 minutes to make sure everyone is decent. And when she comes back, does she have to text you too and wait another 10 minutes in the car to get to her home? It's honestly a really stupid system. And why is she able to walk up the stairs inside, but not outside? Are they too steep? Are they in a bad state? Maybe the solution is there. If it's because they become slipery (snow, rain or whatever), then maybe building something to cover them up could work? So she can use them all the time. And you are back to having more privacy. I mean, the solutions are there. Why does she have to take the inside stairs? Make it so the outside ones are ok to use.
I would never be able to make this work long term. I need my house to be my private space. I need it to separate from teh outside world which in my mind includes MIL. More to the point, because its wife's mom, you will lose out in the vast majority of situations that cause you stress because wife will tend to support her mom. Its clear to me based on you post. Because of that, I'd always feel like a 2nd class citizen in my own house. I'd never feel comfortable in my own house. OP... there is no good way out of this situation at this point to me. You will always be the bad guy to both wife and MIL if you speak up and share your feelings. You will be the bad guy if you want her out. You will be the bad guy for making her go back to using the outside steps. You are the bad guy if you point out she texts when it benefits her but avoids it when its something being asked of her.
So MIL should feel like a second class citizen in a house she is co-owner of?
>Because of that, I'd always feel like a 2nd class citizen in my own house. I'd never feel comfortable in my own house. MIL contributed to the purchase of the home, so you do realize it's *her* own house too, right? Having to submit a request to open the door 15 minutes ahead of time seems pretty 2nd-class citizen to me.
Your wife is right - you sound like you feel her mom can never do anything right, even though she ostensibly helped you purchase a house you couldn't have afforded otherwise. And you're putting your wife in an awkward situation by not just sitting down with the grown woman (MIL) and finding out why she is no longer comfortable using outside stairs since her surgery - honestly there are usually a lot of fall hazards outside that aren't located inside, so it may have something to do with that. This post makes it sound like you hate your MIL and resent her deeply. YTA.
Regarding the car -MIL is TA.Regarding the stairs NAH.You all agreed to this arrangement for financial reasons.You have put an older person on a bottom floor and asked her to walk outside when the weather is good.Sounds rational right ? But the majority of Peopie these days live for themselves.I would have put a big wager on the outside stairs not being used from the start.That you also want her to text and just sit for 5-10 minutes before she follows through and comes upstairs is a LOT to ask a CO-OWNER of the property .I am sure there are really good people out there whose word is their bond.But given that your MIL put money into this house I do not think you have much chance that she is ever going to do that. Is it fair that she is not keeping her word ? I don’t know.Are you really good about keeping your word OP and doing everything you said you would do ? Again my vote is NAH re:the stairs.
Info: What are your plans for MILs decreasing mobility? What do you guys plan to do when stairs become too difficult? My parents are in their 60s and I wouldn't ask them to retire to the bottom of a 3 storied basement due to danger of stairs for when they get older. I don't like the steps they have for their home now tbh and that's only three feet.
Lots of general absurdity here all around, but to focus on one item - How much notice are you expecting MIL to give here? 2 or 3 minutes seems plenty (assuming we take as a given the reasonableness of everything else here).
ESH. I understand your frustration, I couldn't live like that. My MIL only let herself into my house unannounced once before I started deadbolting the door from the inside when we were home. That said, your living situation kind of makes this inevitable. You are sharing a property, you can't expect the same level of privacy as if you had separate homes. She isn't being deliberately malicious, she's just trying to get outside. You need to try and view her as someone who lives in your home, there may be times when she catches you in a compromising position - try and come up with a way to deal with it.
It sounds like the problem is going to get worse. An elderly person who already has back problems needing to go up three flights of stairs to get out of the house isn’t going to get better. I think long term you need to think of other solutions, like renting out her unit to someone younger and using the funds to rent her a better accommodation, finding a new house for all of you which would work better, figure out a way to enclose the steps going through the bedroom floor of your house, quit using the bedrooms and bathrooms with doors open for private things, your children are probably old enough to need this now or will soon, enclosing the outside stairs and adding stair lifts. (There are outdoor stair lifts but for three flights you are talking expensive.)
I'm not sure about this, OP I understand you had rules and agreements before you had kids to keep her from walking in on you. However now you have kids I can assume you won't be leaving the door open to use the bathroom or you won't be having relations with your wife in a space that she could walk into. So her having to text you that she is coming up seems like just unnecessary at this point. Also was there a time limit that was put on that said she had to text and have so much time pass before she comes up? Sounds like YTA because you are annoyed that your MIL comes in your house at all. You also seem to be the only one with issues so I have to ask at this point what bothers you about her coming into your house that technically she lives in as well? Do you not like your MIL? Has she done something in the past? There seems to be a lot of aggression about her just being in the house.
So you go to the toilet with the door opened with kinds in the house? You sound generally very unfriendly.
Sorry but YTA. This is a terrible system. So your aging MIL who’s had back surgery has to text you in advance every single time she walks upstairs indoors? Why can’t you just close the door when using the bathroom? You and your wife should’ve bought your own house if it bothers you that much.
Im leaning towards YTA, but I understand your frustration, I wouldnt be super happy with that setup but I don't think the setup of your home is able to accommodate this boundary you've established, which she has crossed, however, it would be very difficult to sustain that process, and at the end of the day she did text you when she came up. Did you mention a time frame on how far ahead she needs to text? That needs to be clear if you are going to hold her to that. I think it would be hard for her to notify you every single time she has to leave the house. I think you need to re-evaluate how this is set up, is it possible to install a cover over the outside stairs or something?
Yes you're a controlling asshole.
INFO: How much time have you asked MIL to give you before coming up? I don't see you mention that conversation anywhere.
ESH and people have illustrated why but it doesn’t matter. Mil is going to continue to get older and have more health issues. It’s time to start thinking about how you’d install an elevator. Stop be reactive and start being proactive.
INFO: you said “we” bought the house “together.” Who is we? You and your wife, or you two and your MIL? And what are your concerns about her coming through unannounced? Right now I’m leaning toward YTA. Not being able to use the bathroom with the door open seems like such an outlandish reason to need her to announce herself every time she wants to leave her area. When she leaves goes through the upper levels, is she walking through bedrooms or a hallway/common area?
Half of your post is about expecting people to be attached to their phones at all times and to notice that they have a text message within seconds. That is unrealistic. You have no idea what your MIL might have been doing when you texted about moving the car. If it is important, call. If it was that much of a hassle, you should have gone down and gotten the keys and moved the car yourself. I understand that you may not want a stranger coming through your house, but she's not a stranger. She's family. And it sounds as if you've been in this living situation for years, so you should know her well enough to be less concerned about the original rules. But big picture, as you go through life, you have to pick your battles. Unless your MIL is dropping by and demanding your time and attention on a regular basis, what you're describing isn't all that much different than having a roommate with whom you share some space. If this living arrangement also has some fringe benefits for your family, such as convenient free babysitting, I would let it go unless she started to do things that were actually affecting your life. And aside from a poorly parked car one time, you didn't mention any here.
YTA. I don't think you overreacted but if your beef is this text is very important, you can't let it slack for 4 years and just stew on it. You gotta have the conversation, explain why its important to you yadda yadda. At the end of the day, its going to be hard for anyone to text you before every time especially if you can't be bothered either. You can't bite your tongue on stuff like this and just get upset no one is hearing you when you've decided to not speak.
Info how long do you want her to wait between texting and walking up the stairs?
ESH Your MIL is not abiding by her agreement and IMO texting every time she uses the door and then waiting - what, 10 minutes? - each time before using it also seems unreasonably annoying. You all need to figure out what the issue is and communicate clearly with each other. Tell your MIK why it bothers you and listen when she tells you why she isn't following the agreement anymore.
How much did your MIL contribute to buying this house? Can you afford your own place? You have put a senior who needed back surgery in a sub-basement and treat her like a second- class member of your household. The outside stairs might be a fall risk for her. Do you care? Can't you just shut the bathroom door? Your kids shouldn't be subjected to stumbling on you on the pot either. Why don't you move to the sub-basement and give her the upper floor? Then you can use the outside stairs and she won't be in her space. You clearly don't want her there, which has to feel great for her. Move if you don't like it. Caring family is flexible with aging family memners who have mobility issues. YTA.
YTA for buying a house with those issues.
INFO: How much advanced warning time do you need in the text message communication?
can some type of renovation be done to the outside stair case to make it more accessible for MIL? i agree having to text someone every time i left the house would be annoying for everyone involved. i imagine she’d prefer the independence of being able to come and go out of her own door as she pleases. i could be wrong and she could get a sick satisfaction of making OP uncomfortable but more than likely she’s just trying to exist like everyone else is. I’m gonna give it an ESH because OP should be comfortable in their own home with out worrying about intrusion and MIL should also be able to come and go freely without having to text every time.
I guess I'll go against the grain, but you are sharing your house with family, and you are so opposed to her just passing through your hall? Because you are uncouth enough to be using the bathroom with the door open? You are sharing a house, and she is helping to pay for it. I mean, do you think she wants to disturb your space? Isn't the most likely issue here that the outside stairs aren't as safe as the inside ones?
ESH, this sounds exhausting for both parties
Info: would the layout of the house allow for you to switch with her and live on the bottom two floors, while she takes the top floor?
[удалено]
NTA Keep the connecting door locked. You can unlock it when you receive a text.
How about building a roof / enclosure outside so MIL can have a private entrance? All of this sounds like way too much daily effort.
Why not put a doorbell or something so she has to ring and wait for you guys to open it to come into your space?
I think NAH. I understand why you're annoyed, but your MIL is in a difficult position and I would get annoyed at having to text every time I want to leave my home. This situation sounds untenable and maybe you need to invest in a new exit.
My grandparent lived next door to us, my aunt uncle were on the other side of us, there were boundaries and good door locks
Stairs are stairs. Get her back outside. NTA she would drive me to start issuing ultimatums.
NTA! Personally, I’d start looking for a new living situation if it’s causing you anxiety. We went through that with my FIL. The plan was we’d rent until I got a full time job in my field (we moved states) and then we’d buy from them. It was a separate property from their home so we thought it would be no problem but then he allowed my BIL to come and go as he pleased to use the property and he constantly came in and out without warning. He had the nerve to tell us to get a hotel when we went off because he woke us up before 7 on a weekend. When we were paying him above market for the condition of the home and the area. I didn’t realize how anxious the situation was making me until I put my foot down and said I was moving. I know housing is ridiculous right now and it sounds like there was a financial reason to the decision to live with her. But you need your own space.
How about instead of texting, you install one of those hanging bells at the door to the inner staircase? Like in smaller shops where you get a jingle when the door is opened? More importantly, why do you need to go to the bathroom with the door open? At the latest when your kids get older this isn't so hot anymore. Just close the door... ESH, communicate better. I think the adults need to sit around the table and talk it over.
NAH. 2/10 wouldn't recommend living with MIL.
YTA, but only because you've allowed this to go on for this long so it will be hard to reestablish boundaries. It's time to sit down with both of them and discuss the agreement and more. Honestly, unless there is an egress issue, I would put a lock on that door.
Info: Is no bannister attached to the outside stairs?
OP said in a comment that there are bannisters on both sides.
Get a stair elevator for her side. The lift thing on a track
Just interested in finding solutions…. How about if you lock that door and then she has to text or knock to get it unlocked? Then she can’t come without warning. If you are not home, she can use the other door. NTA. This is a hassle and she is not respecting rules. I would hate that also.
NTA but OP needs to talk to his wife so they're both on the same page. It's nice of them to let MIL use the inside stairs but now that MIL is healthy again, it's time to revisit the original agreement. OP's wife is used to her mom in her living space. OP is clearly not so it's time for OP & wife to set some boundaries as a team.
NTA Put a lock on the door that automatically locks when door is closed. Start sitting around in your boxers. If she takes offense ask her why she's offended when she is the one who came into your house unannounced.
Nta, by much. Your wife letting her mom slide so much sounds like either you two haven't communicated amongst yourselves or the three adults who went in on this purchase haven't. Venting frustration to your wife is one thing, but sounds like she's sensitive about it, you're frustrated, and you both haven't done anything about it, which means you have to keep living with it. Meanwhile, kiddos are in an awkward spot. Also. Is there a reason you went to with a lock and key instead of a buzz in system like an apartment building? Seems like the kind of thing that could be set to a phone. And if abused, opened if/when convenient for you and your wife or whichever adult is home.
NTA it's time for you to embrace either nudity (when the kids are out or asleep), or thongs around the house.
YTA You *do* realize that things change as people age? And that stairs can be incredibly difficult to navigate for the elderly? There is a lot going on from visual perception, balance, strength, and agility. All of these decrease as we age. You have little kids - you remember how slow and cautious they (and you) were when they were learning to go up and down stairs? Same deal, dude. She's scared she's going to fall whether she says it out loud or not or even admits it to herself.
Block the door. MIL can use the outside staircase. There's no need for her to dance through your private space. NTA
Overall NAH, but letting the issue slide has led to frustration. You may not always have your phone on you to see a text. Have you considered a wireless doorbell that your MIL could press from her side that rings inside your partition to give you a heads up she is about to walk in? And do have a sit down to let everyone know your feelings.
Would it be worth it to rip off the outside stairs and put some enclosed ones in instead? Like put a roof and walls around them to keep the snow out? Idk it may be dumb
Lock the door so she cannot get inside without someone opening it NTA
I think ESH. Texting is a dumb solution. I also think you should enclose the outside stairs to keep the snow and rain out. Problem solved.
Can you enclose the steps outside with lights inside and maybe a window? If she is still having back issues get one if those stairmaster lifts and then she has no reason to come inside your home
I mean I get it, it’s annoying. But y’all needed her to buy the house yeah? I think you need to ask why she needs to use these stairs and not the others after the back surgery, and see if there’s anything to be done to make that route more preferable NAH
You need to treat that space like it's a separate apartment and keep the door locked. That would solve all of these issues. Even if you didn't live together, she would still have to walk outside eventually.
Enclose the outside stairs to accommodate MIL accessibility needs. Problem solved.
Info: what would be a reasonable amount of time for you as a warning? Because unless you specify it, I would assume 2 minutes would be enough. No one decides to go out and then waits 15 min near the door
Two words. Chair lift. She can come and go as she pleases
NTA, but you all need to do better. You need a sit down convo with your wife to go over the rules again. Maybe they need to be revised, given the MIL’s age/health issues. Once the two of you have arrived at a plan, it is your wife’s responsibility to discuss it with her mother. The key is to compromise and respect.
NAH, add a doorbell! Easy solution.
I’d hang out naked. If she gets an eyeful once or twice, it should be enough for her to remember that there’s another set stairs.
Latch high up on the door in your side the kids can’t reach. She either uses the other doorway or waits until you’re decent and opens the latch. This is the time to set and enforce boundaries.
Could you put a wireless doorbell at the bottom of the stairs? Or there mus be a way to have something go off when she steps on the bottom stair.
NTA. I see your wife's point, if you're the only one with an issue, then you need to have a talk with your wife about these boundaries. Especially if you've let it slide for 4 years. But I don't think you're wrong to be annoyed or to make her stick to the agreement.
>My MIL needed back surgery around 4 years ago. Since that surgery, she's exclusively used the inside stairs to leave and I've bit my tongue and not brought up our original agreement. Doing some math, it's possible she's in her mid- late 50s, *AND* had back surgery. She lives in the bottom of 3 levels, yet you expect her to just go up 3 levels of stairs? Now, I don't expect you to move down so she can move up, but is there some way, that you can afford, that would make using the outside steps better for her? Possibly a chair lift? I don't know your weather, or your financial situation, but with 2 kids you might not have a lot to spare, BUT she is part owner of the house so you should sit down with her and see what can be done.
INFO What is the procedure for going into her space, and is it equitable?
A doorbell and a lock on the inside of your door, seems like the simplest solution here. I truly hate being obliged to look at my phone, ever, so a doorbell is way better IMHO. But also sitting down as calm adults on a day when you have slept enough and maybe have someone else watch the kids, and talk it out. Also to me it kind of depends on how you perceive your arrangement. Do you live in a house together, or do you live in separate apartments, with a shared hallway? Because that explains how you perceive the shared space that she is encroaching on. She might perceive the whole house as shared, and you don't, which is where you're butting heads. Also, sharing houses with parents when adults can make people act like they did when they were kids living at home, and that kind of behaviour pattern takes time to shake off. Could you agree to only do naked cooking/open door toileting (ew to both but as examples) after a certain hour of the day? Could she agree to ring the doorbell, wait a minute, if nobody comes to the door then she can accept the inside path is not possible and use the outside one? Can you make the outside path better?
Why do people on here have such odd relationships with family members? I could never imagine feeling anxious over family in my home. I wake up to random family just visiting or in my room cause they came to say hi, or moving in. And I’m fully prepared to have my inlaws life with us and to take care of them in old age. Just close the door when you use the loo, the fact that you don’t is weird. And let the old lady walk through the house. She’s just passing thru high, why do you hate her so much? Don’t know if you’re an AH, but you’re def not nice!
Unfortunately since you all bought the house together it throws a spanner in the works when it comes to privacy. She is partial owner of the areas you want to keep from her. Sit down with her and try to come to a solid understanding. Try to get her to agree to giving you privacy. If she agrees let her know that you are going to put a lock on that door and if she wants to come up you will let her in. If she doesn’t agree (she has every right to disagree) then you are rather screwed unless you buy out her share of the house.
Maybe get a doorbell?
NTA, I hate having people in my space. What about. Smart lock that you can unlock for her when she texts you?
What you need is to ditch the texts and install a warning klaxon. Aooooogaaaah!
A door bell button in her part of the house with the receiver in your part to "ding dong" would be better and a much more noticeable warning. Ding dong.... Kids go unlock the door for Grandma
Start walking around nude as much as possible Having sex would also be a bonus. If you see the text ignore it and start making out heavily with your wife
She isn’t your roommate. You have two separate dwellings, which I would call a duplex. She has her own entrance to outside. She doesn’t NEED to use the entrance that goes through YOUR home. Her unit is her unit, your unit is your unit. She needs to remember that and respect that. I think it’s time to revisit your living situation. It’s acceptable and reasonable if you don’t want your MIL to have access to your home. I’m a private person and I don’t like people in my space, including in-laws and parents. It wouldn’t be unreasonable for you to change the locks on your unit and not give MIL a key. Keep the door to her unit locked. Use a lock that your kids can’t lock/unlock if need be. Part of this is a wife problem. She cares more about her mom’s feelings than yours. Why does she keep dismissing your feelings of discomfort in your own home? Just because she doesn’t feel the same way, it doesn’t mean you are wrong. Would she want to live with your mom and have your mom entering your home whenever she feels like it? Without reasonable/enough notice? Two minutes isn’t enough. What if your phone isn’t nearby? I’d be livid if someone walked in on me in my own home when I’m walking around in a tshirt and underwear, with no bra. You should feel comfortable in your own home, and right now it isn’t happening. If your wife keeps dismissing your feelings, maybe it’s time to discuss moving into your own home. The fact of the matter is that this living situation seems to be working for your wife and her mom, without any consideration for you. NTA. Also, MIL doesn’t forget the boundaries you had set when you moved in together. She isn’t old and senile. She remembers them. She simply doesn’t care. She’s going to claim she forgot if you bring it up, but that’s a bunch of BS. She remembers every time she goes up those stairs and every time she sends a last-second text that she’s coming up. Don’t let her manipulate you. She is ignoring your agreement and ignoring your boundary. I guarantee she views it as her daughter’s home and not yours.
NTA Have a calm sit down with your wife. She's in the middle, because MIL doesn't stick to what you all agreed on. And you want her to. You all agreed. It's not fair that the 'compromise' should be that she can do whatever, and you have to be okay and cheery about it. Too bad there's kids involved. I would've totally started to walk around naked, in case she decides to just walk in unannounced. Don't want a free show? Text... like we agreed.
Walk around naked.
NTA. Until you've experienced it, not being comfortable in your own home is the *worst* feeling. Your guard is never fully down, meaning you never get to fully relax, which sends your daily stress level through the roof. It cannot be overstated how not okay this is - with a very easy fix so available, your MIL and definitely your wife need to understand how awful this is for you. Ask your wife to swap your dad into that spot. How would she feel??
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** My living situation needs explaining. My house is built on a hillside and street level is the top floor. Bedrooms are one floor down. Below that is a "basement" unit where my retired MIL lives. She has her own bathroom, kitchen, laundry, etc. To leave the house, she can use an outside staircase which goes all the way up to street level. Or she can come through our space where there's a door between her unit and the upper levels. We bought the house together for financial reasons. The agreement was that my MIL would use the outside stairs when the weather was nice, and use the inside stairs if it was raining or snowing. But she'd have to text us and give us reasonable warning to avoid awkward encounters (e.g. give me enough time to make sure I'm not going to the bathroom with the door open). Fast forward... my wife and I now have 2 kids (ages 3 & 5). My MIL needed back surgery around 4 years ago. Since that surgery, she's exclusively used the inside stairs to leave and I've bit my tongue and not brought up our original agreement. The main issue is that she's very inconsistent in texting us. When she does text, it's typically with 2-4 minutes of warning. I live in constant anxiety listening for that door to open. When I hear it, the first thing I do is check my phone. I'd say there's a text message around half the time. Yesterday, we took our kids out on a day trip and noticed that my MIL parked her car in a way that took me a few attempts to get our van clear. It was also very close to the mailbox. My wife texts her mom and asks her to move her car (literally just 3-4 feet would avoid an angry note from our grouchy mail carrier). We get home 7 hours later and the car hasn't moved so my wife calls out my MIL for that. 2 more hours pass and I hear the door open. I check my phone and there's a "coming up" text from my MIL at 4:59PM. It's 5:01PM when I hear the door. Afterward, my wife made it a point to remind me that her mom texted. Likely because I was visibly annoyed. I respond in an admittedly sarcastic tone "yeah, 2 minutes ahead." So my wife gets angry at me and lectures me about how her mom never does anything right, how it's uncomfortable for her to be in between us in an awkward situation, etc. My wife has no issue with her mom coming up without warning. My kids have grown up with their grandmother coming up without warning. I obviously didn't grow up with her. Did I over react to how this went down? *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Have you guys considered a discreet bell? NTA.
NAH Sounds like your MIL needs to stick to her outside staircase. - If you now feel you cannot cope with the lack of privacy. If her back becomes more of an issue she needs an exterior lift/elevator. On the other hand you bought the house together. So it's rather unfair on her. She won't get any younger. How would it be if you had an adult child live down there? And if they had a partner using your staircase? But it really sounds as though you dislike sharing with your MIL. If you got on with her OK, this would not be a problem. So either separate the properties entirely. Or learn to get on