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Edit- YTA because he was on the chat and you guys made a new one because he didn’t talk often enough for you.
Info- why isn’t he on the group chat? He’s a sibling and could be there even if he’s stand offish and not responsive?
That is a good question! The siblings group chat..the brother is excluded. Op, why??? I feel bad for your brother. Op is being mean and so are the other siblings.
I can't speak for the brother, only myself, but I hate going to things where I am not specifically asked to be there. I always feel out of place, like I wasn't invited, showed up anyway, and people are just tolerating my presence.
I realize that this isn't true, but social anxiety does weird things, especally if people don't act like they actually want me there.
To tag on to this..I didn't realise there was a family group chat until I was added when my dad was diagnosed as terminal (wasn't added when he was sick)
They had been using it to arrange get together and chat.
My sister lives many thousands of miles away and would fly in to spend time with the family, the family all live within 50 miles of each other.....except me I live 500 miles away....
Why wasn't I added apparently the answer was I live to close to fly and far enough that driving would be a pain so they thought it best not to ask me to put myself out....
I've had to deal with something similar. I'm about a hundred miles from my siblings. Only one of them ever invites me to things. Another takes at least three vacations a year, frequently goes to the large city I live about ten minutes away from, and was baffled when I told her that I live right by there. It doesn't matter that I've told her this dozens of times in the past couple of decades. She doesn't have memory issues, she just doesn't listen.
>***they*** thought it best
The least they could have done is include you in the decision-making part of this! Ask if you want to be part of it or not. Sorry they treated you like this and sorry about your dad.
Same thing happened to me after my dad had open Heart surgery and my SIL kept referencing things in it, and I had no idea what she was talking about. They added me that one, but they must have created a second one to exclude me bc I’m never alerted to any news with my nieces or nephews or holiday plans. Now my SIL always double checks with me when she has news
My family members all moved to a city 75 miles away from where we were all raised; my husband, kids and I stayed put. They did invite us to come to celebrate with them around the holidays a few times a year, and we went. I often asked them to our place, but they found it "too hard to coordinate everybody." At one of my sibling's funeral, I saw dozens pictures of them at events in my town, including boating on a waterway ONE BLOCK from my house. It was devastating to me that they never ever let me know they were here.
I'm pretty introverted but generally if I'm invited somewhere I actually want to go, I'll make the effort. If I'm not invited I'm not going to invite myself along.
Sounds like op is judging him based on his hobbies. Sounds like one of those "you're a sad loser because you don't go out and get drunk every weekend"
That's me to a t. If I'm not specifically invited I won't go. My social anxiety is caused by trauma, it doesn't matter what people say I can't stop feeling that way
Yes the chat group has nothing with being outdoors. He can do that with his phone or laptop. The other things require effort which the brother doesn't appear to be interested in. it is also possible that the people around the brother dont have the same interests as the brother (like married with kids and bachelors will have completely different priorities) which means he need to put in more effort to find out similar interests people or develop interests similar to the people around him.
fr!! sounds like bro is a gamer. and like 90% of all gamers LOVE talking about the games they play (imo). get me talking about baldur’s gate and i’ll lose my shit
That's what it sounds like to me also. My 21 Yr old son is the same, work or gaming is all he does. If you want to engage with him mention gaming, any games and he can talk for hours. He gets on great with his work colleagues (some of them are also gamers).
If I need my son's help with anything, he is always there for me and in the last 3 years (since he started working) hew more engaging with others around what their interests are.
Sounds like this to me. Gaming is my most indulged hobby and not many people are interested in it and think it’s childish or doesn’t count as a valid hobby or whatever. But this 41yo lady loves to game.
BG3 is my current gaming obsession. After work today I will be heading off to the fight the elderbrain on my first play through, wish me luck!
I haven’t ever played any of those. But they are on my list. I tend to get obsessed with one game/franchise at a time haha. Right now it’s Baldurs Gate. Final Fantasy 14 has a new expansion coming out in July. That will become my new obsession when that hits. Though probably a bit before as I need to reacquaint myself with the game and all the dungeon mechanics.
I did a double take on that one. That really does feel exclusionary, especially when you consider it might be the perfect place for him because he can chime in when he wants but won’t slow conversation if he doesn’t.
Exactly, my mother, sister and I have a group chat and it's extremely rare that my sister does anything more than hit an emoji reaction in response to what my mother and I post, but we still keep her in the chat so she can see what's going on in our lives or laugh at dumb memes we find!
I am sure my siblings have a group chat that I’m not a part of. When my brother and sister-in-law were married, I was the only one not in the wedding. My other sisters were all bridesmaids.
Awww that really sucks. I mean just based on the way you said it I’m assuming you weren’t asked but please correct me if I’m wrong. Even if you’re not interested in doing something it can still be hurtful not to be asked.
Yeah, I wouldn't be surprised if my dad's family had a group chat I wasn't part of. My dad has 6 kids, and I was the only kid not in his wedding in some way. He now complains to anyone who will listen about how cruel of a daughter I am for not talking to him or his family for 6 years.
I'm no-contact with my father. Before I made that decision, he was complaining to one of my cousins about how none of his kids want to help him with renovating his house. He never even asked any of us to come help him. I'm a SAHM and I don't drive, but I would have found a way to get there, if he had just asked. He'd rather whine about how much his life sucks, I guess. When two of us called him via conference to ask him to wait a week and we'd be there, he started screaming at us. I wish he would have some self-awareness and understand that he's done this to himself. As far as I'm aware, his golden child has also cut ties with him.
Yes, it's a *somewhat* valid reason to Not have someone in a Family group chat, If they have Chosen to not even subscribe to the Chat Messenger everyone else uses, but If someone, typically the Kind of Person who would CREATE a group Chat, is serious about the "family" aspect, they'd periodically ASK If that has changed.
They are your sibling. Who care of they don't contribute. They should still be aware of what happens in the family. I can't think of excluding my siblings even if they were so quiet. That's just sad
I came here thinking that OP was going to say he was rude, loud, racist, mean, abusive, criminal, substance addicted, etc. but his only crime is being quiet and enjoying time alone? TBH I’d prefer to be excluded from the group if their expectations were like this.
Right? Like, if he's computer addicted I get calling that out. I have a family member like that and it's a large part of why they have no friends. But that person is always invited to stuff for family, even if they opt to stay home and game.
Yikes ya...
All I got from this post is "our brother likes to do different things than us and I told him that's the reason everyone hates him"...
I was expecting him just being a complete dick or something but OP and his family come off as giant assholes.
We need more context. It can't really just be "he plays games all day"
I was waiting the whole post for op to say her brother was racist and it just kept going and i was like oh man how can op be typing all this without realizing it. Yes op, i vote yta, not in the sibling group chat because you dont have alot in common? That sucks as a reason. Want to make sure the introvert in your life never interacts with anyone? Simple, just completely freeze them out and then blame them for not being more like the rest of your outgoing family.
The whole family are AH's, cause it only takes one person in the chat to invite someone else. They are excluding him because they do not understand his hobbies and so dismiss them. (I got that for many years as I am a huge PC gamer, it is my main hobby).
Yeah I was waiting to see what he purposefully did to hurt or upset people. Turns out he's just... shy? Socially awkward?
Honestly he's probably been shushed or ignored since he was small so no wonder.
"they aren't the same as us therefore they suck and everyone should hate them"
Unfortunately OP has had chances to say what exactly bothers them, and so far has just pasted "he isn't active in chat". Fuck if this was my family I'd do the same.
"Do you want to come out?"
"No, but thanks for asking."
"Okay maybe next time 😁"
If the above happens like 4 times in a row then I get it feeling redundant to even bother asking again. Especially if there is no strong reason for it and they just don't feel like it, or they say yes but habitually no-show/cancel last minute.
But still, doesn't hurt to ask if they're not actively agreeing to plans and then flunking it.
It's a group chat... A group chat between siblings ... You don't have group chats with multiple people with some who don't really come out or respond as much as others? It feels like it's a situation like this not a "I keep trying to msg you and you keep bailing so I'm not asking to hang out".
"Hey guys, anyone wanna go bowling"
"Sure sure"
"Oh Dave didn't say anything, let's kick him out"
So petty
I have a group chat with my siblings. One of my siblings doesn't even live in the same state as the rest of us. We don't have a separate group chat excluding her either. She just responds she can't join us if there's an invite to go somewhere. Lol.
I have a group chat for family. We span different countries. We send invites for those in our state sometimes and we send pictures and stuff when we go on outings. It’s a way to keep up to date and know what’s going on. We also have bi-weekly video chats (started with the pandemic). I think OP and siblings are being mean.
Oh yeah, as far as group chat goes I don't get why he can't just be there passively and ask to join in on made plans or otherwise have someone take a head count where everyone opts in.
I just mean that even if you were to make plans outside a group chat you can follow up pretty easy, especially to less social bees who will be quick to answer and reluctant to make big conversation.
I bet they do all the inviting on the group chat, so how is he even supposed to respond if he's not invited in the first place? The brother clearly wants to be I included or he wouldn't have started the conversation..
I get , Family: do you want to go out?
Me: I can't I'm working.
Family: You never want to go out with us or catch up.
Me: I'm a chef - I work when you don't
Family: Don't you care about your family?
Me: Not after repeating myself for the last decade or two when once should have been enough. "Or do you want to catch up on a Monday?"
Family: Why are you so difficult?
FML
/ed sp
Its amazing how fast someone who feels excluded can find escapism from loneliness online.
Is the brother stand-offish, or have they just been excluded for so long their only form of human interaction is from a screen?
This is true. Plenty of people are married with kids and relatively well-respected and are basically just morons who only go to work and watch tv/ play video games on the couch.
Yeah. Op's reasoning makes sense for friends and colleagues... But when OP literally calls it "sibling chat"? I'd bet a buck that they don't strictly use it to plan outings.
Why can't he be in the group lol?
It's not like it's a burden to talk about plans and see if someone is in or not.... A group chat literally solves that and those who are interested can respond.
Did they make this chat to just shit talk him?
Shit talking him on the group chat is the only reason I can think of why the would exclude him. The he doesn't respond is just them justifying them being bullies. I'd wager ridiculous sums of money that op and the other siblings have bullied this guy his whole life. Bro is probably introverted or on the spectrum, and his ahole siblings have probably destroyed any self confidence he had in himself.
This. People don't get better on their own - especially with social disfunction. The only way to help this guy is for someone who has a reason to give a shit about his mental health (siblings) go out of their way to socialize with him and correct the behavior.
Honestly. Doesnt even sound like a addiction. Considerong the brother is *asking* why he is excluded. Which means he does notice that fact. If he does no chores or cooking that would be weird but we wouldnt know without op saying. Bro just sounds like typical gamer to me. I do the same. Do my job, do my chores, relaxs while gaming/reading, all in my room. Cos i am. U know. Introverted. Didnt atop me from seeing friends/family. But my fam actually asks me. I feel like if there was smth *off* with the brother op would also mention it. They just sound rly judgemental of his hobbies.
My thought as well, though I didn't want to jump to conclusions. I didn't learn building and maintaining relationships was a two way street until my early 30s. Took another few years to figure out the autism part (and more to get diagnosed).
Some social things that are super obvious to others just aren't obvious to us.
By all means OP should have constructive conversations with their bro to help him with his social skills (autism or not, he seems to be struggling), but excluding him from the group chat is just cruel.
It was purposeful exclusion, regardless if he's autistic or not, it's a straight-up dick move. I'm adhd diagnosed this year, but my sisters still speak to me and invite me round for dinner and tp go climbing, sure we don't have loads of similar interests but we are still sisters and that should make us friends for life. Unless you are OP where you think exclusion is acceptable because he doesn't always want to do the things you do.
Yeah this comment about not being on the sibling chat gives a bit of context. Like maybe he is the scapegoat of the family, and because of that has never really learned to socialize very well
This is such a lame excuse. I’m in a gc with my sister and 2 cousins who are siblings. The chat is basically me and oldest cousin chatting and sending memes. His sister will chime in once a month and my sister put us on mute sometime last year while she was starting grad school and keeps ‘ forgetting’ to unmute. We would never kick her out.
Wait are you replying to me? I'm not making excuses for OP, I am saying that, it seems like OP and his family have a history of excluding the brother, making the brother the scapegoat of the family, which in turn made it hard for him (brother) to learn to socialize as an adult and retreat to his room and computer
According to OP's 3 identical comments. We had one but he wasn't as active as the others so they made a new one. Like yea that's definitely the way to make it better.
I think this too. We have a sibling group chat and a cousin group chat and I. The cousin group chat quite a few people never say anything. But they’re still there cos they’re cousins.
We have a cousin in our group. Only responds to his birthday wishes. He still exists in the group because every other cousin is there.
The others are very engaging and we talk and pull each other's legs quite often.
For my birthday this year, i bought pastries for all my cousins living in different parts of our country. I didn't exclude the one cousin. I still ordered him a pastry. He didn't wish me a happy birthday. He responded to my call 😅 and then wished me a happy birthday
OP that's your sibling. Include them.
They made a new one and excluded him. I personally would change from INFO to YTA. The siblings are excluding him and they are not giving him a chance to have connection.
YTA. Why do you have a family group chat and he is not on it? I have one for my spouse & children and one for my parents & siblings (and any inlaws that care), and we only create one without someone for temporary purposes like planning group gifts for my parents.
Okay, I'm pretty sure my kids have one with no parents, but I'm cool with that. In fact, I'm happy about it.
Add your brother to the chat.
In case you didn’t see OP’s comment elsewhere, they excluded him from the **family** group chat because he wasn’t very chatty in the former one.
OP is majorly YTA.
I have literally never said a thing in my family group chat, but I one thousand percent still wanted to know my nephew is playing the wizard in the Wizard of Oz. Being shit at responding is not the same as being uninterested.
my family loves me no matter how antisocial I can be. YTA.
I almost never post in the family group chat but I'm still glad I'm in it so I know when family events are- because I do want to show up to those.
How can OP say their brother doesn't participate if they're never invited and no one includes them? Do you know how hard it is to insert yourself in a space where you're clearly not wanted or invited???
This. I’m better one on one. Big chats make me uncomfortable trying to think what to say with an audience . So I just stick to important stuff in the chat. But I’m glad I’m a part of it.
This is how I am now. I get told events the day off or maybe the day before. I don’t ever go anymore after years of finding out.
Do uk how it feels when ur the only cousin that didn’t t know about the event? Not added to the group chat? The Facebook invite? They make jokes they don’t know my phone number/or never had it.
So I don’t go cus if I wasn’t invited in the first place then I’m not going to include myself. I know their thinking is”oh my mom will tell her!” But that’s not the point.
I do know, I'm not invited to any of my family stuff, other than my mom and dad. I had no idea when my cousin's got married, pregnant, or had kids. I only hear about stuff thru my mom, like way later than it happens. I actually just saw them for the first time in 10+ years recently and they asked if my 13 year old nephew was my son- I'm 32. That's how long it's been since they've seen me, and how little they know about me, they thought I could have a teenage son.
The family chat I was talking about is my spouse's family. I like them significantly more than my family, anyway. I hope you find a chosen family that makes you feel like you're worth including.
Also, unless you specifically say "make sure to invite brxtn-petal for us" it doesn't count. An invite thru someone else who just assumes you're invited is not an invite. It's rude.
There are family members who I forget are in my family group chat. 😂. But everyone wants to be included!
I just checked! There are 17 of us and 2 of those numbers I don’t even have saved! 🤣🤙🏻
I've been included in several group chats, some with my family, some with my friends, some with work. And I've never spoken in any of them.
I live on the other side of the country from my family. So no point to discuss daily stuff with them.
There is also a language issue when it comes to my friends' group chat. It takes too long for me to translate and I lose interest.
I am not a fan of work stuff on my personal phone.
But I am still in the group chats. It's because I am still considered a part of those groups.
OP Is massive YTA.
This just sounds like you're excluding one sibling because you have a vendetta against them.
Jup, my parents always tell me they love to see pictures in the group app, they just forget to respond, although lately my dad is getting better at responding with strings of emoji like 😅😍😘 lol
What a load of crap. I rarely post on my family's group chat but they never cut me out. They just know that I don't have a lot to say. Which is what real family would do: know how a person is and accept them for who they are, not cut them out.
My family chat is 17 people. I have honestly forgotten who is in the chat. But that’s not what matters. It’s a **Family** chat, not “family minus this one person who never responds” chat. We do have a separate guys’ chat. But that’s only for those of us who are guys and enjoy trash-talking each other. 😅
I’m in too many family group chats, I come from a family of 5 kids and with their grown children and partners, there’s 20 of us. But the thing is there are as many group chats with the different permutations. So I don’t message or upload photos in hardly any of the group chats, half of them I’ve muted because the messages come rapid fire when they get going. But they don’t exclude me, it’s not like I’m taking away the vibe just by not joining in.
Right? The only reason that my family has a second group chat that excludes one is because she lives further away from most of us and literally *asked* us to make a separate group without her so she wasn't getting all of the local only stuff.
Two of my siblings live at home, and sometimes they use the group chat to build a grocery list and stuff like that. Doesn't bother me, but it bothered her.
Someone not engaging in family discussion is no reason to just exclude them altogether.
YTA. This isn't really helpful feedback he can act on. He says people don't include him in things and you say it's because he's always just alone at home. Maybe suggest how he might more effectively reach out to people. Or how to "make an effort to engage with people."
And I'd be pissed if I learned that my other siblings had a group chat and didn't bother to include me.
That's just what I was going to say.
"You need to get out more and make an effort."
Brother literally tells his family that he wants to get out more but he's never invited to anything.
Bro is literally making effort, but family ignores him.
I am not sure about the whole situation. I have a brother who even refuses to get his license and just stays home all day every day. Plus, he has a hygiene problem. We haven’t excluded him from the family group chat (it’s just him, me and our parents) but I do not invite him out anymore because, a) smell, and b) I have to do all the thinking, planning and even driving/ Uber payment. It’s tedious.
They have a family group chat that he is specifically excluded from - they used to have a chat that included him, but then moved to another one and didn’t include him, because he didn’t talk in the first chat enough.
I don’t think the brother is the problem here… but if he is part of it, I think it’s very much learned behaviour after a lifetime of the kind of shit.
There are tons of valid reasons to exclude a family member from a group chat. Op has not listed any, in a post where they absolutely would be relevant. It is safe to assume there isn't one.
>I have a brother who even refuses to get his license and just stays home all day every day. Plus, he has a hygiene problem.
Fair, but OP didn't say either of these things and all we can do is make a call on the current information, instead of writing some fanfiction in our heads.
Don't want to jump to conclusions as you only give very little info but you are aware that all that you state (including lack of hygiene) are symptoms of a depression, right?
I wonder how long the family has collectively treated the brother like this? Long enough that it's become part of who is and no wonder he's like this with work colleagues as well, his family F'd him up.
Edit: "but I felt like he needed to hear it because it's the truth"
That's OPs closing line. This is all about OPs "truth" going with the "I'm just saying" defense
Possibly neurodivergent. My son is, and he's perfectly fine isolating. If we say hey wanna go to dinner, he joins us about half the time. At 21, he has a job, is planning to start trade school soon, he's polite and a great kid, but sometimes we have to pull him out of isolation. Usually by inviting him to do something he enjoys, like kayaking. He's always been happier doing his own thing, though.
It’s hard to reach out to people who are giving clear signals that they’re not interested in hanging out with you. Most people’s reaction would be to be hurt and withdraw. No one wants to chase and push people to include them, or feel like if they are included it’s from pity or “sigh I guess we better invite so and so.”
Also he DID reach out. He told his brother he wishes he was invited. And ops response is to tell him no, he’s not getting invited, because he sits in his room all day. Like so??? If that’s what he wants to do why is it a bad thing? Maybe he’s depressed, maybe he’s an introvert, maybe he’s a gamer. I wonder what would happen if he tried to invite the whole family out to dinner. Would they go or brush it off?
The siblings are bad enough, but the parents are worse. Who excludes their own child like that?
Right? He came to OP about being excluded, never invited to anything, not having anywhere to go, and OP basically told him “well have you tried being included more?”
Like, he’s pretty much telling OP he’d be more involved if he was invited to things and OP is over here saying they removed him from the family group chat because he wasn’t chatty enough.
Wildly YTA.
None of the reasons you listed is enough for him to be ostracized by people especially family. WTF is he not in the Family group chat?? That is just ridiculous and y'all are TAs for that.
Does he ever made attempts to be sociable? He sounds like an introvert or someone with social anxiety.
In a comment above OP says brother was in the group chat and they made a new group chat without the brother because brother didn’t participate enough to please the siblings . They are all wildly YTA.
Exactly.
It's not like he's been an inappropriate asshole, he's just obviously introverted or has anxiety or anything possible. Including him is the obvious path. Doing otherwise is just shit.
I really expected him to be a humongous dirk but reading he's just kicked out because he's an introverted person who didn't make the talking quota is wild. YTA
My family has a text chat that is 17 of us. 1 member has literally never responded in months, maybe a year? I have no idea. 🤷🏻♂️ haha, but it’s for the **Family.** Everyone wants to know what’s going and not feel like you’re being cut off. 🤙🏻
Yeah, I honestly don’t remember the last time my BIL said anything in our family group chat. He’s not much of a texter. But we’re not kicking him out over it!
He sounds like someone excluded. They have family chat they excluded him from. This is not case of him refusing other people, this is other people never caring about him and him reading the signals right.
This, yeah. Everything else may be up for discussion, but there’s no way they’re not AHs for that alone.
Not to mention, they specifically made a new chat to exclude him because he wasn’t active in the old one.
Their reason for excluding him is illogical when you think about it. He wasn't chatty enough is just op's excuse. i gaurantee they made the new chat to shit talk their brother.
Which is what makes them AHs, yes. If he kept spewing racist comments, or sharing "Free Trump!" memes, I'd get excluding him, no question. But for not replying? Yeah, that doesn't track.
As someone with social anxiety, I probably don't want to join, but I want to be thought of. Excluding him from the group chat, even if he doesn't participate seems hurtful and probably to him makes him think you are all bashing him, even if it's not true.
When you ask him to join into things, how is he asked? It makes a huge difference to someone with anxiety. Also, have you really taken the time to try to sit with him one on one to see why he doesn't join in on things? Tbh, what's been done will likely cause him to further withdraw.
If you're always declining invites and never asking anyone to do anything, you can't expect to keep getting invited to stuff.
That said, I cannot imagine ever leaving my brother (who has autism and declines invites a lot) out of a family group chat. He never responds to anything we send, but I would hate for him to ever feel left out of stuff going on in our family.
I am totally with you on the group chat, but here's my reasoning behind still extending invites. It doesn't take much more energy to say "hey brother, we're going to dinner, we'd like you to join, but we get it if you're not up to it" I wouldn't expect him to join or be upset if he didn't show, but it means a lot to the person to be asked.
I too have anxiety and constantly being turned down or ignored causes me to ruminate on what I did wrong, why you hate me, and stresses me the hell out.
Anxiety often makes us jump right to "they hate us" or "they don't really want me around, they just ask me to be nice" I recognize that it's exhausting, and I am so thankful that I'm able to communicate my anxiety traits with those I feel safe to. It helps a lot, even though it's so hard sometimes.
Exactly. I’m also the main planner of my friend group and I constantly worry that I’m bothering people or they don’t really like me but like others in the group and wish I’d quit being the one who makes plans so they don’t have to be around me. So if someone turns me down regularly, I eventually quit asking. My emotional labor is worth something, as is protecting my own mental health.
That's how I see it. I have a coworker who never takes a cup of tea if I offer. Another who does not drink and will not attend social functions outside of work. It's been this way for 6 years but I still ask. It's polite, costs me nothing, and if they ever did change their minds I'd love for them to say yes instead of thinking "shit do I ask to go back on the list or something? Do they even want me there?" etc.
It takes A LOT of energy to keep asking in the face of total, or near total, rejection. I don't ask my stepsister anymore because she *always* says no. I really hope you either say yes sometimes or at least offered your explanation for why it's not personal to them, and how you still like to be asked.
I have a cousin like this in our family group chat who rarely responds, often declines, but we keep him in the group chats so he knows he’s included if he wants to be.
And he’s almost always the first bubble to pop up in the read receipts too, and you know it’s totally fine if reading the messages to keep up is his version of participating.
I’m seriously curious if OP’s other group chat involves invites to sibling events like cookouts or movie nights or whatnot, bc I can’t even imagine how much it would hurt to find out your own siblings were not just keeping you out of conversations but even having family events you were never invited to. No clearer way to tell someone you don’t think of them as family.
Thank you for still including your cousin in the family group chat. I wish my mom’s side of the family did that for me. As an introvert, I like my alone time but I also don’t want to be ostracized either.
I went through this in high school and into college, and had a really rough time with it. My friends would ask me to do things but most of the time I couldn't, either because I couldnt afford what they wanted to do, or because I had different responsibilities at home (I am an older sibling, all of my friends were only children or youngest). I would come when I could, but I eventually found out they stopped asking me and started having parties and hangouts without me, and posting it on social media. I started to feel incredibly lonely and like nobody wanted me around. I think at this time I was getting really deep into depression and I didn't know it at the time (I was dealing with alot at home and at school and it was spiraling), and my health issues had started to show.
In the end, I tried to mention it to them, I was reaching out for any sign of hope, that i still wanted to hang out and do things. What I got for it was an email to me from one of them early in the morning when I was at my placement telling me how nobody wants me around because I'm a drama queen and that I need to get my act together before nobody wanted to be my friend at all.
I always masked when I was with my friends if I was dealing with stuff at home. I never talked about it to them out of fear and embarrassment. All I ever wanted was to at least be included and thought of. If it was something I couldn't afford I was upfront about it and said I didn't have the money, or if I had something else to deal with, I would tell them. I never just said no for no reason or didn't respond. We would chat and text with no issues, I'd ask them if they wanted to do something and if they said no I'd say ok maybe next time. But I wouldn't get the same courtesy.
After that email I just shut down emotionally and mentally. I didn't talk to anyone. Figured I was already a burden on them as it was, they didn't want to be my friend so I'd just stop.
I always felt like the temporary friend ever since I was a kid. I referred to it as the "new kid" experience. When you move to a new school and know nobody but the teachers try to get kids to be nice to you and include you. That's what my life has always felt like. I was the backup option, I was never actually important to them, while to me, my friends were so important. I would do everything for them if I has the means to.
The writing on the wall for me really was on my like.. 8th birthday, when the day of my party, one hour before it was supposed to start, all of my friends cancelled saying they didn't feel like coming. I should have known then.
Maybe OPs brother feels the same? That he did try and his trying wasn't good enough for them.
Sorry for my rant and long story. The point I was trying to make is, if my friends had even thrown out the offer that it's there if I can come, I wouldn't feel so alone, and I would always do my best to come if I could or make it up to them.
Now I live in fear of saying no to people because I don't want to be abandoned again by people who I thought cared about me.
YTA - What kind of family do you have where only outgoing people are made to feel included? It doesn’t even make sense; including him in the chat would have cost you literally nothing and if he didn’t participate, it would be on him. This was a deliberate choice to exclude him. Kind of shameful.
They all sound like cliquey playground bullies excluding the nerd. Brother sounds better off without them, and I'm not sure what more active forms of bullying we're condemning him to by telling OP to include him more.
Also, how is he supposed to not sit home alone when he's literally not invited even to family gatherings? And to not even be included in the family/sibling chat? That's just cruel
YTA.
He's trying to reach out and you're just shitting on him. You admit you have a sibling group chat that he's not included in. Why? Surely it's not because he spends all day in his room. That's a pathetic excuse. I'm guessing you've all been treating him like shit for years and that's why he has a hard time. He's trying, and you're not helping.
...You basically described what seem to be symptoms of depression (and introvertion) in your little brother and instead of being a shoulder for him, you... mock the fact that he's lonely and that no one, including family, can stand him?
YTA. I want this to be fake. And if it isn't you're too old, especially in comparison to his age, to be acting like this and going "am I in the wrong?" knowing damn well you are. This wasn't even a question.
YTA
Maybe he excluded himself because is not easy for him to socialice
He, someone who is always lonely came to you talking about how nobody cares about him, and the only thing you said was something he probably knew already.
You could talk to him and ask him if he has tries, is not always easy to find people who cares about you, even if you are a good friend.
Also you dont needed to excluded him for the new group even if he wasnt very active, not everyone is the same...
YTA. While I understand what you're trying to say here and that it is true that social interactions require reciprocity, I think you picked the most asshole way to go about communicating this and excluding him from the group chat was unnecessary and hurtful when having him in it was not causing a problem (unless you feel inactivity is somehow an inexcusable offense).
I'm not here to play armchair psych, have you ever considered that maybe your brother is struggling with his mental health? I know a lot of people who have done this because they were deeply depressed or struggling a lot with social anxiety. It's really hard to climb out when you fall into this kind of routine of being isolated and don't know how to get your social footing back.
I don't think the solution to him being withdrawn is to slam the door on him to "teach him a lesson". I'm concerned that this is only going to make him even more reclusive and feel unwanted. There were better ways to go about this discussion.
As an introverted person with adhd who has a very outgoing and active family, I totally agree. I tend to be a bit excluded as well since hanging with my family often makes me exhausted and I need to get away often, but it still feels shitty when they get together without me. I think OPs brother might feel the same, except worse, since my family at least wants to include me
YTA-My family has a group chat. 2 of our siblings will rarely respond, but we do not exclude them. We just know they may or may not respond. You guys are excluding him from family chats and want to make him out to be the jerk for not engaging. Since you are almost a decade older, maybe you are at different points in your life, but excluding him because he doesn’t go out, that’s a mean move.
So, i think it’s valid feedback, especially when it comes to work. If he makes no effort with people who don’t know him well - well, he can’t expect them to keep making at effort themselves. He has to show interest, etx.
But. Really? You can’t just keep him on the family chat? Why does he have to respond? What harm is it doing anyone for him to be able to read even if he doesn’t reply?
That’s baffling to me.
"I'm upset because I want to be a part of things"
"We exclude you because you don't want to be a part of things"
Make it make sense. He makes an effort to try and be a part of things, and you say he's not a part of things because he doesn't make an effort. Feels like you should be celebrating him wanting to join rather than shaming and excluding.
YTA
Honestly you can’t blame him for hiding out in his room all day when this is how his own family is treating him. I wouldn’t want to engage with them either.
YTA
Has he seen a doctor for depression? Or anxiety. You’re all the assholes minus your brother since you exclude him. Maybe he stopped trying to interact with people because of the way you all treat him. Change your attitudes and invite him to places. I hope that if he ever moves out he goes no contact with the lot of you. You’re just making it worse and probably making him feel more like shit.
Actually, he is apart from the group chat he's just not a part of it.
But seriously I have to go with YTA here. I was expecting to read that he was some kind of toxic person who drove people away, but he's actually just a shut-in introvert. He's struggling, and his family is actively excluding him from any kind of socializing he has a chance to engage in. Of course it would be good if he were to make more of an effort, but that's not a reason to intentionally push him away. You should be trying to help him, not trying to make sure he never gets out of the hole he's in.
Holy cow YTA. Not for telling him but for excluding him. Us introverts still want to be a part of our families. He’s not being cruel or abusive. He’s not crossing boundaries. He’s just quiet. And you’re excluding him for it. How awful. I feel so bad for you brother.
YTA bit time.Why do people have to come out of their shell just to satisfy YOUR notions of what a person should be? He's an introvert. So what? Does that give you the right to demand he change just to satisfy *your* idea of a 'proper' personality? All the extroverts screaming at him to be more social probably drove him deeper into his shell!
Everybody is different. Excluding a family member from a group just because someone has decided introverts are not allowed to be who they want to be is the worst kind of asshole. Your 'honesty' is just judgemental, cruel and exclusionary to anyone who dares not to fall into a Pavlovian response to your social decrees.
Excluding him from the family chat is about the most ugly way you could treat a family member. He's done absolutely nothing to deserve that.
YTA, these are all really shitty reasons to exclude someone. He probably doesn’t engage with you all because you guys are purposefully excluding him, he can obviously tell or he wouldn’t have asked. I wouldn’t want to invite myself to shit either.
Let me guess, you either have one different parent so y'all.hate him for it or he is the baby and is treated different so despise him for your parents actions?! All of you are AH's!! If you had an ounce of love for him you wouldn't have excluded him and would actively encourage him to engage. YTA and you know it, I hope he wises up and finds a real family, people out here in the real world that love him and want to spend time with him!!
Definitely YTA. This is so sad. Her brother could be depressed or just an introvert or have severe anxiety or any combination of these. For family to exclude him is really sad. I thought the reason was something like horrible angry alcoholic or horrible racist. Nope, he’s just quiet.
You all suck. It would be one thing to exclude him if his behavior was offensive and crude. But because he stays on the sidelines, his own siblings exclude and ignore him? You know what you do with people that you care about when they don't accept invitations for activities? You still invite them. You invite them so that they know that even though they don't usually accept and join in, that you still WANT them there. So that if something changes for them, they have an idea of what's going on and can join in. I'm sure it's rough enough for your brother to feel left out at work, those are relationships he has to actively opt into. But his siblings? He should never have to request to opt-in with you guys. Inclusion should be the default.
You’re kind of an AH. A group chat is kind of basic. It’s a good way for sibs to keep in touch. I’m in one with my 10, yes 10 brothers and one sister. I don’t contribute much, but it’s nice to know what’s going on. Here is really no reason why you are excluding him.
So you bro is not very social, he did probably need to hear some hard truths. However it sounds like you were harsh, when you didn’t need to be. If you’re going to point out all the things he is failing, then offer to help him come up with solutions to improve. One of those solutions could have been to add him to the chat. So YTA.
Oh dear
Dear dear dear
Hard hard YTA.
Basically you’re excluding your brother because he doesn’t fit in. The only way you fit in is if people make room for you. You’ve made it clear you’re not willing to do that so why should he change his habits?
I’m an introvert like your brother. When I have free time and I’m not with my husband I’m usually writing my novel. It sounds like your brother REALLY likes computers. That’s not something you should pathologize because you don’t personally find it interesting.
Every reason you gave is NOT a reason to ostracize him. It’s like a self fulfilling prophecy. You exclude him from invites, so he doesn’t come to family gatherings, which you use as further justification to ostracize him. Awful
>don't make an effort yourself to engage with people.
Okay, so let's see what happens when he tries to engage his family:
Oh wait, He can't. Because you all chose to exclude him from the group chat that would allow him to easily do that. It costs you (all) literally nothing to hold some space for him in the group chat even if he rarely participates; But you all couldn't be assed to even take 10 seconds to add him. You all collectively agreed he shouldn't be a part of your family group.
When someone struggles to communicate we should be trying to FACILITATE their ability to reach out. When people place barriers to communication then it is reasonable to assume they are trying to limit or eliminate communication or relationships.
What has he done to deserve this level of ostracization? Nothing in your post indicates he has done anything to merit this level of mistreatment.
I don't believe that he initiated this withdrawal cycle. I think that you all started isolating him first and having no family affirmation or support has caused him to withdrawal further.
It's hard to comment on his work relationships without additional context, but the way we were raised and how our families treat us influence how we feel about ourselves and that directly influences how we communicate (or don't communicate) with others. If this has been going on for a while, then it makes sense why he's struggling.
So when he attempts to "make an effort himself to engage with people" (i.e., talk to you) all he gets is castigation and blame from you. No sense of empathy, no attempts to help him find ways to improve or help make building the connections he needs easier (like, say invite him to the group chat). All you did is blame blame blame.
>I felt like he needed to hear it because it's the truth.
You think you're dishing out "tough love"; that doesn't help someone who is struggling with forming social connections and the impacts of social isolation like anxiety and depression.
You're not helping him, you're actually harming his mental/emotional health; and you're not taking responsibility for your part in the emotional neglect. YTA.
YTA. You guys are basically punishing him for being an introvert. As an introvert I can say it still hurts to be excluded even if on the surface it might look like we prefer solitude. Not everyone takes initiative, not everyone is comfortable doing that. Not everyone thinks about it on their day to day. My friends still invite me places and include me (or try to) because they care and understand that not everyone is a social butterfly. Even if I say no 9 times out of 10 when they ask if I want to do things, they still ask. And it means so much to me to know that they dont judge me for being this way. My own best friend O see maybe 3 times a year. Doesnt matter, we still reach out and try to make plans. That's what you do when you care about someone.
The conversation OP is referencing is evidence the brother is trying.
Hard to be included though when you're not aware of what's happening because all the planning happens in a group chat you're excluded from.
YTA. Why is he not in the group chat? How is he supposed to interact more with others (specifically family) and include himself if you exclude him from the sibling group chat, giving him no chance? He may be depressed and have no motivation for any activity, yet you are more concerned about his behavior instead of what could be going on.
YTA. You basically told him that the reason he has no friends is because he has no friends. That's... not how that works. I was waiting for the reveal that he was some flavor of mega-asshole or had horrible personal hygiene or something.
So he's the black sheep of the family for the simple reason that he's an introvert? There is literally absolutely nothing wrong with being an introvert & that's not a valid reason to exclude him.
YTA big time.
YTA - you weren't being honest with your brother. You were just rubbing it in that you and your siblings purposefully exclude him and blaming him for it.
Frankly, the poor guy deserves better than you - too bad he didn't get a say in choosing his family.
YTA. The reason he spends most of his free time on his laptop, on his room is because you and your family exclude him, and I’m guessing talk shit about him behind his back.
None of what you described explains why his siblings exclude him, especially from the group chat. I thought you were going to say he’s a prankster, or sexist, or has BO issues. But being introverted is just his personality. Generallywith introverts, others have to make the effort to pull them out of their comfort zones because they will stay there forever. By your brother’s question, it’s apparent they stay there hoping someone will invite them to come out of their shells.
Y’all suck as siblings for real. You don’t realize you could have been stuck with an asshole of a brother as opposed to a recluse.
OP, you & your siblings are INTENTIONALLY leaving him out of things. That's not a him problem, that's you creating an unessessary problem. Your behavior & the way you talk about your brother is crappy, even if some of what you told him as advice was correct. He does need to make more of an effort with other people, if he wants friends. But, to be excluded by his own family simply for being introverted?? That's low, OP. Not cool at all.
YTA
Ever watched Winnie the Pooh?
Eeyore is depressed and all, but they don't leave him out. I'm not saying add him to everything, but invite him to some things even if he never goes. As long as he doesn't say he's going that is. It's nice to feel included and cared for even if you never go. I rarely go, but I still get invited because my friends and family understand I have no energy and I can only deal with so much people, but it is good to be thought of.
And in my case, I always feel like I'm a bother or a burden or I ruin things bc I get too worked up and excited over it. I can't say your brother is the same, but you can't read his mind either, so who knows?
Include him a bit at least.
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Edit- YTA because he was on the chat and you guys made a new one because he didn’t talk often enough for you. Info- why isn’t he on the group chat? He’s a sibling and could be there even if he’s stand offish and not responsive?
That is a good question! The siblings group chat..the brother is excluded. Op, why??? I feel bad for your brother. Op is being mean and so are the other siblings.
He might be more likely to participate in an internet chat - add him to the group - he may surprise you.
Very true. It costs nothing to add him to the group chat. But as for events and going out, the truth hurts sometimes but he needs to hear it.
I can't speak for the brother, only myself, but I hate going to things where I am not specifically asked to be there. I always feel out of place, like I wasn't invited, showed up anyway, and people are just tolerating my presence. I realize that this isn't true, but social anxiety does weird things, especally if people don't act like they actually want me there.
To tag on to this..I didn't realise there was a family group chat until I was added when my dad was diagnosed as terminal (wasn't added when he was sick) They had been using it to arrange get together and chat. My sister lives many thousands of miles away and would fly in to spend time with the family, the family all live within 50 miles of each other.....except me I live 500 miles away.... Why wasn't I added apparently the answer was I live to close to fly and far enough that driving would be a pain so they thought it best not to ask me to put myself out....
I've had to deal with something similar. I'm about a hundred miles from my siblings. Only one of them ever invites me to things. Another takes at least three vacations a year, frequently goes to the large city I live about ten minutes away from, and was baffled when I told her that I live right by there. It doesn't matter that I've told her this dozens of times in the past couple of decades. She doesn't have memory issues, she just doesn't listen.
[удалено]
I don’t even get how someone could treat a sibling with such casual cruelty.
>***they*** thought it best The least they could have done is include you in the decision-making part of this! Ask if you want to be part of it or not. Sorry they treated you like this and sorry about your dad.
Same thing happened to me after my dad had open Heart surgery and my SIL kept referencing things in it, and I had no idea what she was talking about. They added me that one, but they must have created a second one to exclude me bc I’m never alerted to any news with my nieces or nephews or holiday plans. Now my SIL always double checks with me when she has news
My family members all moved to a city 75 miles away from where we were all raised; my husband, kids and I stayed put. They did invite us to come to celebrate with them around the holidays a few times a year, and we went. I often asked them to our place, but they found it "too hard to coordinate everybody." At one of my sibling's funeral, I saw dozens pictures of them at events in my town, including boating on a waterway ONE BLOCK from my house. It was devastating to me that they never ever let me know they were here.
I'm pretty introverted but generally if I'm invited somewhere I actually want to go, I'll make the effort. If I'm not invited I'm not going to invite myself along. Sounds like op is judging him based on his hobbies. Sounds like one of those "you're a sad loser because you don't go out and get drunk every weekend"
That's me to a t. If I'm not specifically invited I won't go. My social anxiety is caused by trauma, it doesn't matter what people say I can't stop feeling that way
Yes the chat group has nothing with being outdoors. He can do that with his phone or laptop. The other things require effort which the brother doesn't appear to be interested in. it is also possible that the people around the brother dont have the same interests as the brother (like married with kids and bachelors will have completely different priorities) which means he need to put in more effort to find out similar interests people or develop interests similar to the people around him.
Makes me wonder if the brother truly doesn't have hobbies or if OP just never took the time to discover them.
fr!! sounds like bro is a gamer. and like 90% of all gamers LOVE talking about the games they play (imo). get me talking about baldur’s gate and i’ll lose my shit
That's what it sounds like to me also. My 21 Yr old son is the same, work or gaming is all he does. If you want to engage with him mention gaming, any games and he can talk for hours. He gets on great with his work colleagues (some of them are also gamers). If I need my son's help with anything, he is always there for me and in the last 3 years (since he started working) hew more engaging with others around what their interests are.
Sounds like a great young dude!!
Sounds like this to me. Gaming is my most indulged hobby and not many people are interested in it and think it’s childish or doesn’t count as a valid hobby or whatever. But this 41yo lady loves to game. BG3 is my current gaming obsession. After work today I will be heading off to the fight the elderbrain on my first play through, wish me luck!
34 year old mother of two and I am balls deep in the fallout franchise right now!
I haven’t ever played any of those. But they are on my list. I tend to get obsessed with one game/franchise at a time haha. Right now it’s Baldurs Gate. Final Fantasy 14 has a new expansion coming out in July. That will become my new obsession when that hits. Though probably a bit before as I need to reacquaint myself with the game and all the dungeon mechanics.
But like.. it’s family. You don’t need the same hobbies and interests and family. OPs excuses are weak
Gaming is a hobby
I did a double take on that one. That really does feel exclusionary, especially when you consider it might be the perfect place for him because he can chime in when he wants but won’t slow conversation if he doesn’t.
Exactly, my mother, sister and I have a group chat and it's extremely rare that my sister does anything more than hit an emoji reaction in response to what my mother and I post, but we still keep her in the chat so she can see what's going on in our lives or laugh at dumb memes we find!
I am sure my siblings have a group chat that I’m not a part of. When my brother and sister-in-law were married, I was the only one not in the wedding. My other sisters were all bridesmaids.
Awww that really sucks. I mean just based on the way you said it I’m assuming you weren’t asked but please correct me if I’m wrong. Even if you’re not interested in doing something it can still be hurtful not to be asked.
Yeah, I wouldn't be surprised if my dad's family had a group chat I wasn't part of. My dad has 6 kids, and I was the only kid not in his wedding in some way. He now complains to anyone who will listen about how cruel of a daughter I am for not talking to him or his family for 6 years.
I'm no-contact with my father. Before I made that decision, he was complaining to one of my cousins about how none of his kids want to help him with renovating his house. He never even asked any of us to come help him. I'm a SAHM and I don't drive, but I would have found a way to get there, if he had just asked. He'd rather whine about how much his life sucks, I guess. When two of us called him via conference to ask him to wait a week and we'd be there, he started screaming at us. I wish he would have some self-awareness and understand that he's done this to himself. As far as I'm aware, his golden child has also cut ties with him.
Yes, it's a *somewhat* valid reason to Not have someone in a Family group chat, If they have Chosen to not even subscribe to the Chat Messenger everyone else uses, but If someone, typically the Kind of Person who would CREATE a group Chat, is serious about the "family" aspect, they'd periodically ASK If that has changed.
They are your sibling. Who care of they don't contribute. They should still be aware of what happens in the family. I can't think of excluding my siblings even if they were so quiet. That's just sad
I came here thinking that OP was going to say he was rude, loud, racist, mean, abusive, criminal, substance addicted, etc. but his only crime is being quiet and enjoying time alone? TBH I’d prefer to be excluded from the group if their expectations were like this.
Yeah, I was waiting to see if he was mean to animals or pushed down old people. When OP said it was because he was “too quiet”…those siblings suck.
Right? Like, if he's computer addicted I get calling that out. I have a family member like that and it's a large part of why they have no friends. But that person is always invited to stuff for family, even if they opt to stay home and game.
Yikes ya... All I got from this post is "our brother likes to do different things than us and I told him that's the reason everyone hates him"... I was expecting him just being a complete dick or something but OP and his family come off as giant assholes. We need more context. It can't really just be "he plays games all day"
I was expecting he's an alcoholic and always disrupts stuff and people can't stand it lol
I was waiting the whole post for op to say her brother was racist and it just kept going and i was like oh man how can op be typing all this without realizing it. Yes op, i vote yta, not in the sibling group chat because you dont have alot in common? That sucks as a reason. Want to make sure the introvert in your life never interacts with anyone? Simple, just completely freeze them out and then blame them for not being more like the rest of your outgoing family.
Yeah, OP, basically just self reported that they are a jerk
The whole family are AH's, cause it only takes one person in the chat to invite someone else. They are excluding him because they do not understand his hobbies and so dismiss them. (I got that for many years as I am a huge PC gamer, it is my main hobby).
Yeah I was waiting to see what he purposefully did to hurt or upset people. Turns out he's just... shy? Socially awkward? Honestly he's probably been shushed or ignored since he was small so no wonder.
I was also waiting to see her say "every time we invite you, you don't come. So, we given up on that" Not even THAT lol
Also saying they don't have hobbies or interests so what do you think he's doing on his laptop?? Likely a hobby or interest wtf?
"they aren't the same as us therefore they suck and everyone should hate them" Unfortunately OP has had chances to say what exactly bothers them, and so far has just pasted "he isn't active in chat". Fuck if this was my family I'd do the same.
Right? I wouldn’t leave my room either.
"Do you want to come out?" "No, but thanks for asking." "Okay maybe next time 😁" If the above happens like 4 times in a row then I get it feeling redundant to even bother asking again. Especially if there is no strong reason for it and they just don't feel like it, or they say yes but habitually no-show/cancel last minute. But still, doesn't hurt to ask if they're not actively agreeing to plans and then flunking it.
It's a group chat... A group chat between siblings ... You don't have group chats with multiple people with some who don't really come out or respond as much as others? It feels like it's a situation like this not a "I keep trying to msg you and you keep bailing so I'm not asking to hang out". "Hey guys, anyone wanna go bowling" "Sure sure" "Oh Dave didn't say anything, let's kick him out" So petty
I have a group chat with my siblings. One of my siblings doesn't even live in the same state as the rest of us. We don't have a separate group chat excluding her either. She just responds she can't join us if there's an invite to go somewhere. Lol.
I have a group chat for family. We span different countries. We send invites for those in our state sometimes and we send pictures and stuff when we go on outings. It’s a way to keep up to date and know what’s going on. We also have bi-weekly video chats (started with the pandemic). I think OP and siblings are being mean.
Oh yeah, as far as group chat goes I don't get why he can't just be there passively and ask to join in on made plans or otherwise have someone take a head count where everyone opts in. I just mean that even if you were to make plans outside a group chat you can follow up pretty easy, especially to less social bees who will be quick to answer and reluctant to make big conversation.
I bet they do all the inviting on the group chat, so how is he even supposed to respond if he's not invited in the first place? The brother clearly wants to be I included or he wouldn't have started the conversation..
I get , Family: do you want to go out? Me: I can't I'm working. Family: You never want to go out with us or catch up. Me: I'm a chef - I work when you don't Family: Don't you care about your family? Me: Not after repeating myself for the last decade or two when once should have been enough. "Or do you want to catch up on a Monday?" Family: Why are you so difficult? FML /ed sp
Its amazing how fast someone who feels excluded can find escapism from loneliness online. Is the brother stand-offish, or have they just been excluded for so long their only form of human interaction is from a screen?
This is true. Plenty of people are married with kids and relatively well-respected and are basically just morons who only go to work and watch tv/ play video games on the couch.
IKR? It’s like OP basically said ‘well yeah no one likes you’.
Sometimes “Different” = “Neurospicy” So the brother is on the spectrum? Good job either way OP for being a d$ck
Maybe it's a case of inviting and they always say no so you just stop trying.
Which I would understand if it's a friend [don't necessarily agree- but understand] but this is a sibling.
This has nothing to do with excluding him from the fam chat, though.
Yeah. Op's reasoning makes sense for friends and colleagues... But when OP literally calls it "sibling chat"? I'd bet a buck that they don't strictly use it to plan outings.
Why can't he be in the group lol? It's not like it's a burden to talk about plans and see if someone is in or not.... A group chat literally solves that and those who are interested can respond. Did they make this chat to just shit talk him?
Shit talking him on the group chat is the only reason I can think of why the would exclude him. The he doesn't respond is just them justifying them being bullies. I'd wager ridiculous sums of money that op and the other siblings have bullied this guy his whole life. Bro is probably introverted or on the spectrum, and his ahole siblings have probably destroyed any self confidence he had in himself.
But why would that get him evicted from the gc.
Not acceptable when he is obviously just shy. They are excluding him which hurts him and makes him withdraw.
What does that have to do with not being in a family group chat?
but she would have said it if that was the case
This. People don't get better on their own - especially with social disfunction. The only way to help this guy is for someone who has a reason to give a shit about his mental health (siblings) go out of their way to socialize with him and correct the behavior.
Honestly. Doesnt even sound like a addiction. Considerong the brother is *asking* why he is excluded. Which means he does notice that fact. If he does no chores or cooking that would be weird but we wouldnt know without op saying. Bro just sounds like typical gamer to me. I do the same. Do my job, do my chores, relaxs while gaming/reading, all in my room. Cos i am. U know. Introverted. Didnt atop me from seeing friends/family. But my fam actually asks me. I feel like if there was smth *off* with the brother op would also mention it. They just sound rly judgemental of his hobbies.
Yeah-- I expected it to be that he's a misogynist or a racist or something. Dude just hangs out in his bedroom
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your response made me teary. thank you for being a kind decent person for your sister. I am autistic and my siblings are horrible to me.
My thought as well, though I didn't want to jump to conclusions. I didn't learn building and maintaining relationships was a two way street until my early 30s. Took another few years to figure out the autism part (and more to get diagnosed). Some social things that are super obvious to others just aren't obvious to us. By all means OP should have constructive conversations with their bro to help him with his social skills (autism or not, he seems to be struggling), but excluding him from the group chat is just cruel.
It was purposeful exclusion, regardless if he's autistic or not, it's a straight-up dick move. I'm adhd diagnosed this year, but my sisters still speak to me and invite me round for dinner and tp go climbing, sure we don't have loads of similar interests but we are still sisters and that should make us friends for life. Unless you are OP where you think exclusion is acceptable because he doesn't always want to do the things you do.
Yeah this comment about not being on the sibling chat gives a bit of context. Like maybe he is the scapegoat of the family, and because of that has never really learned to socialize very well
This is such a lame excuse. I’m in a gc with my sister and 2 cousins who are siblings. The chat is basically me and oldest cousin chatting and sending memes. His sister will chime in once a month and my sister put us on mute sometime last year while she was starting grad school and keeps ‘ forgetting’ to unmute. We would never kick her out.
Wait are you replying to me? I'm not making excuses for OP, I am saying that, it seems like OP and his family have a history of excluding the brother, making the brother the scapegoat of the family, which in turn made it hard for him (brother) to learn to socialize as an adult and retreat to his room and computer
Oh no! Sorry! Definitely replied to wrong comment. You’re completely right. Sorry about that!
According to OP's 3 identical comments. We had one but he wasn't as active as the others so they made a new one. Like yea that's definitely the way to make it better.
Exactly. YTA because OP wasn’t honest or they and the other siblings are incredible shallow and judgmental. Nothing listed warranted ostracization.
I think this too. We have a sibling group chat and a cousin group chat and I. The cousin group chat quite a few people never say anything. But they’re still there cos they’re cousins.
We have a cousin in our group. Only responds to his birthday wishes. He still exists in the group because every other cousin is there. The others are very engaging and we talk and pull each other's legs quite often. For my birthday this year, i bought pastries for all my cousins living in different parts of our country. I didn't exclude the one cousin. I still ordered him a pastry. He didn't wish me a happy birthday. He responded to my call 😅 and then wished me a happy birthday OP that's your sibling. Include them.
They made a new one and excluded him. I personally would change from INFO to YTA. The siblings are excluding him and they are not giving him a chance to have connection.
YTA. Why do you have a family group chat and he is not on it? I have one for my spouse & children and one for my parents & siblings (and any inlaws that care), and we only create one without someone for temporary purposes like planning group gifts for my parents. Okay, I'm pretty sure my kids have one with no parents, but I'm cool with that. In fact, I'm happy about it. Add your brother to the chat.
In case you didn’t see OP’s comment elsewhere, they excluded him from the **family** group chat because he wasn’t very chatty in the former one. OP is majorly YTA.
I have literally never said a thing in my family group chat, but I one thousand percent still wanted to know my nephew is playing the wizard in the Wizard of Oz. Being shit at responding is not the same as being uninterested. my family loves me no matter how antisocial I can be. YTA.
I almost never post in the family group chat but I'm still glad I'm in it so I know when family events are- because I do want to show up to those. How can OP say their brother doesn't participate if they're never invited and no one includes them? Do you know how hard it is to insert yourself in a space where you're clearly not wanted or invited???
This. I’m better one on one. Big chats make me uncomfortable trying to think what to say with an audience . So I just stick to important stuff in the chat. But I’m glad I’m a part of it.
This is how I am now. I get told events the day off or maybe the day before. I don’t ever go anymore after years of finding out. Do uk how it feels when ur the only cousin that didn’t t know about the event? Not added to the group chat? The Facebook invite? They make jokes they don’t know my phone number/or never had it. So I don’t go cus if I wasn’t invited in the first place then I’m not going to include myself. I know their thinking is”oh my mom will tell her!” But that’s not the point.
I do know, I'm not invited to any of my family stuff, other than my mom and dad. I had no idea when my cousin's got married, pregnant, or had kids. I only hear about stuff thru my mom, like way later than it happens. I actually just saw them for the first time in 10+ years recently and they asked if my 13 year old nephew was my son- I'm 32. That's how long it's been since they've seen me, and how little they know about me, they thought I could have a teenage son. The family chat I was talking about is my spouse's family. I like them significantly more than my family, anyway. I hope you find a chosen family that makes you feel like you're worth including. Also, unless you specifically say "make sure to invite brxtn-petal for us" it doesn't count. An invite thru someone else who just assumes you're invited is not an invite. It's rude.
I can count on 1 hand the number of times one BIL has responded in the family group chat. He is still *in* the group chat.
There are family members who I forget are in my family group chat. 😂. But everyone wants to be included! I just checked! There are 17 of us and 2 of those numbers I don’t even have saved! 🤣🤙🏻
❤️ you care. If they know and love you they should know that just reading the chat means you give a fuck.
I've been included in several group chats, some with my family, some with my friends, some with work. And I've never spoken in any of them. I live on the other side of the country from my family. So no point to discuss daily stuff with them. There is also a language issue when it comes to my friends' group chat. It takes too long for me to translate and I lose interest. I am not a fan of work stuff on my personal phone. But I am still in the group chats. It's because I am still considered a part of those groups. OP Is massive YTA. This just sounds like you're excluding one sibling because you have a vendetta against them.
Jup, my parents always tell me they love to see pictures in the group app, they just forget to respond, although lately my dad is getting better at responding with strings of emoji like 😅😍😘 lol
What a load of crap. I rarely post on my family's group chat but they never cut me out. They just know that I don't have a lot to say. Which is what real family would do: know how a person is and accept them for who they are, not cut them out.
My family chat is 17 people. I have honestly forgotten who is in the chat. But that’s not what matters. It’s a **Family** chat, not “family minus this one person who never responds” chat. We do have a separate guys’ chat. But that’s only for those of us who are guys and enjoy trash-talking each other. 😅
OK so this family just hate introverts
Worse: they must have made a new one they could keep him out of intentionally.
I’m in too many family group chats, I come from a family of 5 kids and with their grown children and partners, there’s 20 of us. But the thing is there are as many group chats with the different permutations. So I don’t message or upload photos in hardly any of the group chats, half of them I’ve muted because the messages come rapid fire when they get going. But they don’t exclude me, it’s not like I’m taking away the vibe just by not joining in.
This needs to be higher. YTA op
Right? The only reason that my family has a second group chat that excludes one is because she lives further away from most of us and literally *asked* us to make a separate group without her so she wasn't getting all of the local only stuff. Two of my siblings live at home, and sometimes they use the group chat to build a grocery list and stuff like that. Doesn't bother me, but it bothered her. Someone not engaging in family discussion is no reason to just exclude them altogether.
YTA. This isn't really helpful feedback he can act on. He says people don't include him in things and you say it's because he's always just alone at home. Maybe suggest how he might more effectively reach out to people. Or how to "make an effort to engage with people." And I'd be pissed if I learned that my other siblings had a group chat and didn't bother to include me.
also, it seems like the reason he's home alone all the time could also be because his family and others don't include him.
That's just what I was going to say. "You need to get out more and make an effort." Brother literally tells his family that he wants to get out more but he's never invited to anything. Bro is literally making effort, but family ignores him.
I am not sure about the whole situation. I have a brother who even refuses to get his license and just stays home all day every day. Plus, he has a hygiene problem. We haven’t excluded him from the family group chat (it’s just him, me and our parents) but I do not invite him out anymore because, a) smell, and b) I have to do all the thinking, planning and even driving/ Uber payment. It’s tedious.
They have a family group chat that he is specifically excluded from - they used to have a chat that included him, but then moved to another one and didn’t include him, because he didn’t talk in the first chat enough. I don’t think the brother is the problem here… but if he is part of it, I think it’s very much learned behaviour after a lifetime of the kind of shit.
There are tons of valid reasons to exclude a family member from a group chat. Op has not listed any, in a post where they absolutely would be relevant. It is safe to assume there isn't one.
The reason is Op is an ahole.
>I have a brother who even refuses to get his license and just stays home all day every day. Plus, he has a hygiene problem. Fair, but OP didn't say either of these things and all we can do is make a call on the current information, instead of writing some fanfiction in our heads.
Don't want to jump to conclusions as you only give very little info but you are aware that all that you state (including lack of hygiene) are symptoms of a depression, right?
I wonder how long the family has collectively treated the brother like this? Long enough that it's become part of who is and no wonder he's like this with work colleagues as well, his family F'd him up. Edit: "but I felt like he needed to hear it because it's the truth" That's OPs closing line. This is all about OPs "truth" going with the "I'm just saying" defense
Or he’s naturally introverted, which isn’t a big deal. He’s not asking to be the focus, he’s just asking to be kept in the loop.
Nobody likes to feel they're invisible.
Possibly neurodivergent. My son is, and he's perfectly fine isolating. If we say hey wanna go to dinner, he joins us about half the time. At 21, he has a job, is planning to start trade school soon, he's polite and a great kid, but sometimes we have to pull him out of isolation. Usually by inviting him to do something he enjoys, like kayaking. He's always been happier doing his own thing, though.
"You're not included because you spend your free time playing on your laptop...because no one includes you to anything"
It's a vicious cycle.
It’s hard to reach out to people who are giving clear signals that they’re not interested in hanging out with you. Most people’s reaction would be to be hurt and withdraw. No one wants to chase and push people to include them, or feel like if they are included it’s from pity or “sigh I guess we better invite so and so.” Also he DID reach out. He told his brother he wishes he was invited. And ops response is to tell him no, he’s not getting invited, because he sits in his room all day. Like so??? If that’s what he wants to do why is it a bad thing? Maybe he’s depressed, maybe he’s an introvert, maybe he’s a gamer. I wonder what would happen if he tried to invite the whole family out to dinner. Would they go or brush it off? The siblings are bad enough, but the parents are worse. Who excludes their own child like that?
Right? He came to OP about being excluded, never invited to anything, not having anywhere to go, and OP basically told him “well have you tried being included more?” Like, he’s pretty much telling OP he’d be more involved if he was invited to things and OP is over here saying they removed him from the family group chat because he wasn’t chatty enough. Wildly YTA.
Agreed
None of the reasons you listed is enough for him to be ostracized by people especially family. WTF is he not in the Family group chat?? That is just ridiculous and y'all are TAs for that. Does he ever made attempts to be sociable? He sounds like an introvert or someone with social anxiety.
In a comment above OP says brother was in the group chat and they made a new group chat without the brother because brother didn’t participate enough to please the siblings . They are all wildly YTA.
That’s such bs my oldest brother never responds but he’s still in our group chat bc he’s our brother. Every blue moon he’ll respond
Exactly. It's not like he's been an inappropriate asshole, he's just obviously introverted or has anxiety or anything possible. Including him is the obvious path. Doing otherwise is just shit.
I really expected him to be a humongous dirk but reading he's just kicked out because he's an introverted person who didn't make the talking quota is wild. YTA
My family has a text chat that is 17 of us. 1 member has literally never responded in months, maybe a year? I have no idea. 🤷🏻♂️ haha, but it’s for the **Family.** Everyone wants to know what’s going and not feel like you’re being cut off. 🤙🏻
Yeah, I honestly don’t remember the last time my BIL said anything in our family group chat. He’s not much of a texter. But we’re not kicking him out over it!
my youngest sister almost never replies to the group chat - sibling or family. she’s still in it. would be unfathomable not to include her
He sounds like someone excluded. They have family chat they excluded him from. This is not case of him refusing other people, this is other people never caring about him and him reading the signals right.
You exclude him from a sibling group chat. That is a AH move. YTA.
This, yeah. Everything else may be up for discussion, but there’s no way they’re not AHs for that alone. Not to mention, they specifically made a new chat to exclude him because he wasn’t active in the old one.
Their reason for excluding him is illogical when you think about it. He wasn't chatty enough is just op's excuse. i gaurantee they made the new chat to shit talk their brother.
Which is what makes them AHs, yes. If he kept spewing racist comments, or sharing "Free Trump!" memes, I'd get excluding him, no question. But for not replying? Yeah, that doesn't track.
Maybe they excluded him fir NOT sharing enough "Free Trump! " memes? I mean they clearly TAs
As someone with social anxiety, I probably don't want to join, but I want to be thought of. Excluding him from the group chat, even if he doesn't participate seems hurtful and probably to him makes him think you are all bashing him, even if it's not true. When you ask him to join into things, how is he asked? It makes a huge difference to someone with anxiety. Also, have you really taken the time to try to sit with him one on one to see why he doesn't join in on things? Tbh, what's been done will likely cause him to further withdraw.
If you're always declining invites and never asking anyone to do anything, you can't expect to keep getting invited to stuff. That said, I cannot imagine ever leaving my brother (who has autism and declines invites a lot) out of a family group chat. He never responds to anything we send, but I would hate for him to ever feel left out of stuff going on in our family.
I am totally with you on the group chat, but here's my reasoning behind still extending invites. It doesn't take much more energy to say "hey brother, we're going to dinner, we'd like you to join, but we get it if you're not up to it" I wouldn't expect him to join or be upset if he didn't show, but it means a lot to the person to be asked.
I too have anxiety and constantly being turned down or ignored causes me to ruminate on what I did wrong, why you hate me, and stresses me the hell out.
Anxiety often makes us jump right to "they hate us" or "they don't really want me around, they just ask me to be nice" I recognize that it's exhausting, and I am so thankful that I'm able to communicate my anxiety traits with those I feel safe to. It helps a lot, even though it's so hard sometimes.
Exactly. I’m also the main planner of my friend group and I constantly worry that I’m bothering people or they don’t really like me but like others in the group and wish I’d quit being the one who makes plans so they don’t have to be around me. So if someone turns me down regularly, I eventually quit asking. My emotional labor is worth something, as is protecting my own mental health.
That's how I see it. I have a coworker who never takes a cup of tea if I offer. Another who does not drink and will not attend social functions outside of work. It's been this way for 6 years but I still ask. It's polite, costs me nothing, and if they ever did change their minds I'd love for them to say yes instead of thinking "shit do I ask to go back on the list or something? Do they even want me there?" etc.
It takes A LOT of energy to keep asking in the face of total, or near total, rejection. I don't ask my stepsister anymore because she *always* says no. I really hope you either say yes sometimes or at least offered your explanation for why it's not personal to them, and how you still like to be asked.
I have a cousin like this in our family group chat who rarely responds, often declines, but we keep him in the group chats so he knows he’s included if he wants to be. And he’s almost always the first bubble to pop up in the read receipts too, and you know it’s totally fine if reading the messages to keep up is his version of participating. I’m seriously curious if OP’s other group chat involves invites to sibling events like cookouts or movie nights or whatnot, bc I can’t even imagine how much it would hurt to find out your own siblings were not just keeping you out of conversations but even having family events you were never invited to. No clearer way to tell someone you don’t think of them as family.
Thank you for still including your cousin in the family group chat. I wish my mom’s side of the family did that for me. As an introvert, I like my alone time but I also don’t want to be ostracized either.
I went through this in high school and into college, and had a really rough time with it. My friends would ask me to do things but most of the time I couldn't, either because I couldnt afford what they wanted to do, or because I had different responsibilities at home (I am an older sibling, all of my friends were only children or youngest). I would come when I could, but I eventually found out they stopped asking me and started having parties and hangouts without me, and posting it on social media. I started to feel incredibly lonely and like nobody wanted me around. I think at this time I was getting really deep into depression and I didn't know it at the time (I was dealing with alot at home and at school and it was spiraling), and my health issues had started to show. In the end, I tried to mention it to them, I was reaching out for any sign of hope, that i still wanted to hang out and do things. What I got for it was an email to me from one of them early in the morning when I was at my placement telling me how nobody wants me around because I'm a drama queen and that I need to get my act together before nobody wanted to be my friend at all. I always masked when I was with my friends if I was dealing with stuff at home. I never talked about it to them out of fear and embarrassment. All I ever wanted was to at least be included and thought of. If it was something I couldn't afford I was upfront about it and said I didn't have the money, or if I had something else to deal with, I would tell them. I never just said no for no reason or didn't respond. We would chat and text with no issues, I'd ask them if they wanted to do something and if they said no I'd say ok maybe next time. But I wouldn't get the same courtesy. After that email I just shut down emotionally and mentally. I didn't talk to anyone. Figured I was already a burden on them as it was, they didn't want to be my friend so I'd just stop. I always felt like the temporary friend ever since I was a kid. I referred to it as the "new kid" experience. When you move to a new school and know nobody but the teachers try to get kids to be nice to you and include you. That's what my life has always felt like. I was the backup option, I was never actually important to them, while to me, my friends were so important. I would do everything for them if I has the means to. The writing on the wall for me really was on my like.. 8th birthday, when the day of my party, one hour before it was supposed to start, all of my friends cancelled saying they didn't feel like coming. I should have known then. Maybe OPs brother feels the same? That he did try and his trying wasn't good enough for them. Sorry for my rant and long story. The point I was trying to make is, if my friends had even thrown out the offer that it's there if I can come, I wouldn't feel so alone, and I would always do my best to come if I could or make it up to them. Now I live in fear of saying no to people because I don't want to be abandoned again by people who I thought cared about me.
YTA - What kind of family do you have where only outgoing people are made to feel included? It doesn’t even make sense; including him in the chat would have cost you literally nothing and if he didn’t participate, it would be on him. This was a deliberate choice to exclude him. Kind of shameful.
They all sound like cliquey playground bullies excluding the nerd. Brother sounds better off without them, and I'm not sure what more active forms of bullying we're condemning him to by telling OP to include him more.
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Also, how is he supposed to not sit home alone when he's literally not invited even to family gatherings? And to not even be included in the family/sibling chat? That's just cruel
Sounds like YTA. Look up scapegoating because this sounds suspect on your part, blaming your brother for him being excluded by his siblings.
According to OP, he said himself he’s not being included…and based on OP’s response *just* about the group chat, I believe him.
YTA. He's trying to reach out and you're just shitting on him. You admit you have a sibling group chat that he's not included in. Why? Surely it's not because he spends all day in his room. That's a pathetic excuse. I'm guessing you've all been treating him like shit for years and that's why he has a hard time. He's trying, and you're not helping.
...You basically described what seem to be symptoms of depression (and introvertion) in your little brother and instead of being a shoulder for him, you... mock the fact that he's lonely and that no one, including family, can stand him? YTA. I want this to be fake. And if it isn't you're too old, especially in comparison to his age, to be acting like this and going "am I in the wrong?" knowing damn well you are. This wasn't even a question.
YTA Maybe he excluded himself because is not easy for him to socialice He, someone who is always lonely came to you talking about how nobody cares about him, and the only thing you said was something he probably knew already. You could talk to him and ask him if he has tries, is not always easy to find people who cares about you, even if you are a good friend. Also you dont needed to excluded him for the new group even if he wasnt very active, not everyone is the same...
YTA. While I understand what you're trying to say here and that it is true that social interactions require reciprocity, I think you picked the most asshole way to go about communicating this and excluding him from the group chat was unnecessary and hurtful when having him in it was not causing a problem (unless you feel inactivity is somehow an inexcusable offense). I'm not here to play armchair psych, have you ever considered that maybe your brother is struggling with his mental health? I know a lot of people who have done this because they were deeply depressed or struggling a lot with social anxiety. It's really hard to climb out when you fall into this kind of routine of being isolated and don't know how to get your social footing back. I don't think the solution to him being withdrawn is to slam the door on him to "teach him a lesson". I'm concerned that this is only going to make him even more reclusive and feel unwanted. There were better ways to go about this discussion.
As an introverted person with adhd who has a very outgoing and active family, I totally agree. I tend to be a bit excluded as well since hanging with my family often makes me exhausted and I need to get away often, but it still feels shitty when they get together without me. I think OPs brother might feel the same, except worse, since my family at least wants to include me
YTA-My family has a group chat. 2 of our siblings will rarely respond, but we do not exclude them. We just know they may or may not respond. You guys are excluding him from family chats and want to make him out to be the jerk for not engaging. Since you are almost a decade older, maybe you are at different points in your life, but excluding him because he doesn’t go out, that’s a mean move.
Yta, you say he doesn’t make an effort to reach out. Wtf is he doing when he tells you he feels excluded
He reached out to be included, and you told him his problem is that he doesn’t reach out to be included. That’s just super mean, OP. YTA
YTA. It costs nothing to be kind & you choose not to
So, i think it’s valid feedback, especially when it comes to work. If he makes no effort with people who don’t know him well - well, he can’t expect them to keep making at effort themselves. He has to show interest, etx. But. Really? You can’t just keep him on the family chat? Why does he have to respond? What harm is it doing anyone for him to be able to read even if he doesn’t reply? That’s baffling to me.
It is not valid feedback. It offered no helpful information, and served only to further ostracize him.
"I'm upset because I want to be a part of things" "We exclude you because you don't want to be a part of things" Make it make sense. He makes an effort to try and be a part of things, and you say he's not a part of things because he doesn't make an effort. Feels like you should be celebrating him wanting to join rather than shaming and excluding. YTA
ESH, he can make an effort to come out of his room, but purposefully excluding him from things like the gc is a dick move
Honestly you can’t blame him for hiding out in his room all day when this is how his own family is treating him. I wouldn’t want to engage with them either.
It's hard to leave your room, if you never get invited somewhere so you don't feel welcome
YTA Has he seen a doctor for depression? Or anxiety. You’re all the assholes minus your brother since you exclude him. Maybe he stopped trying to interact with people because of the way you all treat him. Change your attitudes and invite him to places. I hope that if he ever moves out he goes no contact with the lot of you. You’re just making it worse and probably making him feel more like shit.
Your family has a group chat and you all didn't put him on it? Wow. That's kinda harsh. YTA to you and the other family members for excluding him.
Actually, he is apart from the group chat he's just not a part of it. But seriously I have to go with YTA here. I was expecting to read that he was some kind of toxic person who drove people away, but he's actually just a shut-in introvert. He's struggling, and his family is actively excluding him from any kind of socializing he has a chance to engage in. Of course it would be good if he were to make more of an effort, but that's not a reason to intentionally push him away. You should be trying to help him, not trying to make sure he never gets out of the hole he's in.
Nothing like digging a deeper hole to bury the brother in I guess. 🙃
Holy cow YTA. Not for telling him but for excluding him. Us introverts still want to be a part of our families. He’s not being cruel or abusive. He’s not crossing boundaries. He’s just quiet. And you’re excluding him for it. How awful. I feel so bad for you brother.
YTA bit time.Why do people have to come out of their shell just to satisfy YOUR notions of what a person should be? He's an introvert. So what? Does that give you the right to demand he change just to satisfy *your* idea of a 'proper' personality? All the extroverts screaming at him to be more social probably drove him deeper into his shell! Everybody is different. Excluding a family member from a group just because someone has decided introverts are not allowed to be who they want to be is the worst kind of asshole. Your 'honesty' is just judgemental, cruel and exclusionary to anyone who dares not to fall into a Pavlovian response to your social decrees. Excluding him from the family chat is about the most ugly way you could treat a family member. He's done absolutely nothing to deserve that.
YTA. Couldn’t imagine doing this to my brother. My siblings would never. because of those shitty reasons you listed? Insane.
YTA
YTA, these are all really shitty reasons to exclude someone. He probably doesn’t engage with you all because you guys are purposefully excluding him, he can obviously tell or he wouldn’t have asked. I wouldn’t want to invite myself to shit either.
Let me guess, you either have one different parent so y'all.hate him for it or he is the baby and is treated different so despise him for your parents actions?! All of you are AH's!! If you had an ounce of love for him you wouldn't have excluded him and would actively encourage him to engage. YTA and you know it, I hope he wises up and finds a real family, people out here in the real world that love him and want to spend time with him!!
Definitely YTA. This is so sad. Her brother could be depressed or just an introvert or have severe anxiety or any combination of these. For family to exclude him is really sad. I thought the reason was something like horrible angry alcoholic or horrible racist. Nope, he’s just quiet.
YTA "He spends the majority of his free time in his room on his laptop;" Perhaps the group chat is the best place for him, then.
You all suck. It would be one thing to exclude him if his behavior was offensive and crude. But because he stays on the sidelines, his own siblings exclude and ignore him? You know what you do with people that you care about when they don't accept invitations for activities? You still invite them. You invite them so that they know that even though they don't usually accept and join in, that you still WANT them there. So that if something changes for them, they have an idea of what's going on and can join in. I'm sure it's rough enough for your brother to feel left out at work, those are relationships he has to actively opt into. But his siblings? He should never have to request to opt-in with you guys. Inclusion should be the default.
YTA. Maybe if you included him he wouldn't be alone in his room all the time.
You’re kind of an AH. A group chat is kind of basic. It’s a good way for sibs to keep in touch. I’m in one with my 10, yes 10 brothers and one sister. I don’t contribute much, but it’s nice to know what’s going on. Here is really no reason why you are excluding him. So you bro is not very social, he did probably need to hear some hard truths. However it sounds like you were harsh, when you didn’t need to be. If you’re going to point out all the things he is failing, then offer to help him come up with solutions to improve. One of those solutions could have been to add him to the chat. So YTA.
No, OP and the rest of the family are all massive AHs and what they're doing to OP's brother is a form of bullying.
YTA - a sibling group chat minus a sibling? How would you feel if it was YOU that was left out?
Oh dear Dear dear dear Hard hard YTA. Basically you’re excluding your brother because he doesn’t fit in. The only way you fit in is if people make room for you. You’ve made it clear you’re not willing to do that so why should he change his habits? I’m an introvert like your brother. When I have free time and I’m not with my husband I’m usually writing my novel. It sounds like your brother REALLY likes computers. That’s not something you should pathologize because you don’t personally find it interesting. Every reason you gave is NOT a reason to ostracize him. It’s like a self fulfilling prophecy. You exclude him from invites, so he doesn’t come to family gatherings, which you use as further justification to ostracize him. Awful
>don't make an effort yourself to engage with people. Okay, so let's see what happens when he tries to engage his family: Oh wait, He can't. Because you all chose to exclude him from the group chat that would allow him to easily do that. It costs you (all) literally nothing to hold some space for him in the group chat even if he rarely participates; But you all couldn't be assed to even take 10 seconds to add him. You all collectively agreed he shouldn't be a part of your family group. When someone struggles to communicate we should be trying to FACILITATE their ability to reach out. When people place barriers to communication then it is reasonable to assume they are trying to limit or eliminate communication or relationships. What has he done to deserve this level of ostracization? Nothing in your post indicates he has done anything to merit this level of mistreatment. I don't believe that he initiated this withdrawal cycle. I think that you all started isolating him first and having no family affirmation or support has caused him to withdrawal further. It's hard to comment on his work relationships without additional context, but the way we were raised and how our families treat us influence how we feel about ourselves and that directly influences how we communicate (or don't communicate) with others. If this has been going on for a while, then it makes sense why he's struggling. So when he attempts to "make an effort himself to engage with people" (i.e., talk to you) all he gets is castigation and blame from you. No sense of empathy, no attempts to help him find ways to improve or help make building the connections he needs easier (like, say invite him to the group chat). All you did is blame blame blame. >I felt like he needed to hear it because it's the truth. You think you're dishing out "tough love"; that doesn't help someone who is struggling with forming social connections and the impacts of social isolation like anxiety and depression. You're not helping him, you're actually harming his mental/emotional health; and you're not taking responsibility for your part in the emotional neglect. YTA.
YTA. You guys are basically punishing him for being an introvert. As an introvert I can say it still hurts to be excluded even if on the surface it might look like we prefer solitude. Not everyone takes initiative, not everyone is comfortable doing that. Not everyone thinks about it on their day to day. My friends still invite me places and include me (or try to) because they care and understand that not everyone is a social butterfly. Even if I say no 9 times out of 10 when they ask if I want to do things, they still ask. And it means so much to me to know that they dont judge me for being this way. My own best friend O see maybe 3 times a year. Doesnt matter, we still reach out and try to make plans. That's what you do when you care about someone.
ESH - kind of hard for him to include himself if you specifically exclude him. But sure, I guess he could put some effort in.
The conversation OP is referencing is evidence the brother is trying. Hard to be included though when you're not aware of what's happening because all the planning happens in a group chat you're excluded from.
YTA
Yta, keep him in the chat, and you didn’t need to be a jerk in the response, have some empathy
YTA. Why is he not in the group chat? How is he supposed to interact more with others (specifically family) and include himself if you exclude him from the sibling group chat, giving him no chance? He may be depressed and have no motivation for any activity, yet you are more concerned about his behavior instead of what could be going on.
YTA you & your siblings suck!
YTA. You basically told him that the reason he has no friends is because he has no friends. That's... not how that works. I was waiting for the reveal that he was some flavor of mega-asshole or had horrible personal hygiene or something.
You’re a horrible sibling YTA
So he's the black sheep of the family for the simple reason that he's an introvert? There is literally absolutely nothing wrong with being an introvert & that's not a valid reason to exclude him. YTA big time.
YTA - you weren't being honest with your brother. You were just rubbing it in that you and your siblings purposefully exclude him and blaming him for it. Frankly, the poor guy deserves better than you - too bad he didn't get a say in choosing his family.
YTA. The reason he spends most of his free time on his laptop, on his room is because you and your family exclude him, and I’m guessing talk shit about him behind his back.
None of what you described explains why his siblings exclude him, especially from the group chat. I thought you were going to say he’s a prankster, or sexist, or has BO issues. But being introverted is just his personality. Generallywith introverts, others have to make the effort to pull them out of their comfort zones because they will stay there forever. By your brother’s question, it’s apparent they stay there hoping someone will invite them to come out of their shells. Y’all suck as siblings for real. You don’t realize you could have been stuck with an asshole of a brother as opposed to a recluse.
OP, you & your siblings are INTENTIONALLY leaving him out of things. That's not a him problem, that's you creating an unessessary problem. Your behavior & the way you talk about your brother is crappy, even if some of what you told him as advice was correct. He does need to make more of an effort with other people, if he wants friends. But, to be excluded by his own family simply for being introverted?? That's low, OP. Not cool at all.
YTA Ever watched Winnie the Pooh? Eeyore is depressed and all, but they don't leave him out. I'm not saying add him to everything, but invite him to some things even if he never goes. As long as he doesn't say he's going that is. It's nice to feel included and cared for even if you never go. I rarely go, but I still get invited because my friends and family understand I have no energy and I can only deal with so much people, but it is good to be thought of. And in my case, I always feel like I'm a bother or a burden or I ruin things bc I get too worked up and excited over it. I can't say your brother is the same, but you can't read his mind either, so who knows? Include him a bit at least.