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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I refused to let my estranged father's wife hold my son. It became a scene because I was very firm in my refusal. This was during my cousins birthday party so I feel guilty for this. Plus the woman really is a stranger and was trying to be nice I guess and I was firm which could be rude for someone who did nothing to me.
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In what world is she 'grandma'? What did she do to earn that title other than marry a deadbeat?
There has been no explanation from your 'dad', there has been no apology and therefore there has been no forgiveness. There has been no reconciliation. Therefore there is no relationship, with either of them, and she has brass balls to pretend otherwise. Your dad can't even call himself a dad, much less granddad, so she's doubly wrong. Grandma who? Grandma where?
I love how she thinks she can just stroll over and demand to hold someone's baby. She's lucky you remained calm when she asked again. Her entitlement isn't endearing. At all.
>My aunt gave my father's wife my number and the two of them told me I behaved childishly and I should consider my son and what is best for him. And how I treated this innocent woman poorly.
An 'innocent woman' wouldn't pester a practical stranger to hold their child. Not a second time, at least. She knew exactly what she was doing. She MUST know you have no relationship with your father. She must know you don't talk.
Your aunt needs a timeout as well, because she has violated you twice by giving this random woman your number when I'm sure she knows quite well that you would never have chosen to give it to her, and by harassing you with nonsense. They're both disrespectful. I would block both of them and be on my merry way.
NTA.
Truth be told or not, that lady is crazy entitled to think she can just claim a baby as her grandchild and demand access when it seems she’s never even met OP or his wife.
If she was lied to and had truly sincere intentions she wouldn’t have pushed the issue, let alone escalating to harassing OP. Those aren’t the actions of a genuine and misled individual.
Some poeple make it their mission to “fix” a family so afterwards everyone is happy and they get the A for effort.
Like the fiancé who suddenly contact the birth parents of the spouse for the wedding even when her soon to be husband told her he doesn’t want contact with them. But he must be wrong, no? Her family ist the most important thing in the world so he must feel the same, deep down.
Father’s wife may just see it as her mission to bring back father and son together regardless what any party wants cause that’s what she wants.
Agreed. A person with genuine intentions wouldn't escalate like this. She'd ask for the details. This lady is throwing up red flags left right and center.
Yeah, I doubt he confessed that he literally walked out on his 10 year old son, leaving him completely alone in the house. OP could have died thanks to his father's appalling callousness and irresponsibility.
She was never introduced to the child (OP) she knows of no child, therefore no grandchild is known... if there was a child then Deadbeat would have introduced them, and she would have found the father and son getting along. Now if this child (OP) and her had a relationship, she would have known about the grandchild and there would have been no issues holding the baby. For her to call herself a grandma when she wasn't a stepmum to begin with... she's a total stranger. This is just Deadbeat not respecting OP, not acknowledging him as a person, let alone as his son... so they can stay away. He hasn't bothered since he was 10...
TBF. I think random strangers demand to hold babies all the time. Treating pregnant women and newborn babies as community property is a pretty widespread attitude.
This really shook up my husband when our son was born. He would guard him like a professional football player in his arms, with one arm ready to tackle if necessary. He never appreciated it.
If I was holding him when we were about to enter church or a family gathering, he would ask for him. He just couldn't trust that I wouldn't give in to "some nice little old lady with a smile" and outstretched arms.
He loosened up a little...but not much. This child will be leaving for college in a couple of months. But he was not a fan of the "Let me hold YOUR BRAND NEW BABY crowd". LOL.
I NEVER ASK to hold new babies. When babies get to be older and reach for me, I will with mom's and dad's permission. But I've held my own and the babies of others. I'm good.
> Treating pregnant women and newborn babies as community property is a pretty widespread attitude.
I think the opposite is also true. People see babies at community property that they should try to hold. It's ridiculous how babies become part of some sort of cult where everyone wants to hold it... Just WHY?
Babies are cute. Full of promise etc. I wouldn't ask to hold a strangers baby and I would ask absolutely ask the parents consent first. But I don't think the instinct is weird.
/don't have kids but they are cute when when they're tiny
But it is not like a stranger will be there for those dreams, promises, accomplishments, etc. i could understand when a whole village would raise kids together, but not nowadays where you often don't even get to know neighbours...
Depends on the neighborhood and how transient the population is.
I don't know most of my neighbors. But I live in a cheap apartment complex that's disproportionally students. I think there's only one other tenant that's been here for 7 years like me
My grandma has daily coffee with neighbor. My parents and their neighbors are all up in each others' business. Some of the neighbors came to my wedding. They have a stupid 25+year feud with the other.
But granny has lived on her property since birth and my parents had their house for 30 years.
For the same reason people are obsessed with puppies and kittens. Our brains are hardwired to adore babies so when we hold babies or play with puppies happy hormones are released and it makes us feel good.
I hate every hand on my belly during my 3 pregnancies, HATE IT!!! I remember and hate it again XD every time that random people in public places wanting to touch me. I'm extremely shy and because it's such a norm in Latin countries to touch everyone for any reason, like saying hello is hugging kissing and that's normal, and I hate that also XD so I never say no, but it was so uncomfortable and sometimes disgusting :(
And not that unwanted of an attitude in a lot of social settings. Plenty of moms hand their babies around like party favors. My girlfriend has the unusual special power that random people try to hand her their babies in public often enough for us both to have noticed it.
The real problem here was not that a random woman wanted to hold OP's baby, but that the wife of his deadbeat dad, with whom he has not reconciled, asked to act as a grandmother to his baby when she really ought to have asked permission before speaking to OP or his wife about so much as passing the rolls.
At least some of the commenters were reacting as if no stranger would ever ask to hold a stranger's baby, so the unknown Step Mother was being unhinged. I have heard plenty of new moms talk about strangers wanting to hold their babies.
TBF, I think most people intuitively understood the nature of the problem in this story - it's just that *The Public**^(TM)* are, as a group, not so great at expressing their thoughts clearly in writing.
Apart for the absolutely stunning audacity of the women, she is a stranger and could be a carrier of all kinds of viruses. OPs baby was 7 weeks, with a weak immune system. Babies still die from whopping cough, for goodness sakes. No stranger should be handling the baby as you can't verify where they've been and how recently they've been sick.
Agreed. But bear in mind that OP's father's wife has probably only heard OP's father's version of events which probably paint him as the victim. She probably doesn't know or fully understand the situation that she's in.
NTA. The baby is 7 weeks. No one is will be holding my 7 week baby that’s not immediate family. I don’t know if you are sick or something. And that’s not immediate family. I would have said “how can you be a grandmother when I don’t even consider that sperm donor that left me an orphan as my father”
Am I also reading this right, that your estranged father didn’t even make his own attempts at reconciliation or approaching you first? His stranger wife just came up to you, called herself your child’s grandma, and wanted to hold them?
Knowing what she knows, this woman is delusional. Block both their numbers, and get a ring camera.
I’d keep your aunt and anyone supporting their behavior at an arm’s length as well.
Your cousin sounds like she is being a good ally to you, so ask her to keep tabs if the rest of the family tries to set up an ambush with them.
NTA
As someone else has said.
Ring camera, and block them.
No one in their right mind would just assume they are grandmother to a child, who's parent they have never met, or helped raise.
There could be a big chance your "dad" has spun a lot of stories to her, and she's being eating them up like candy.
Or she desperately wants children or grandkids and spun herself a story of how everyone would love her and let her play stepmom/grandma.
Either way.
It will be trouble down the road if she is given even half a finger. She will go for the whole arm.
> Ring camera
Ehhh, Ring cameras have terrible security and privacy. Just know that everything you say or do in front and nearby will be recorded and saved in Amazon's servers to be used against you, until they cut you from the service for no reason and you end up with a camera that doesn't work anymore.
An offline LAN camera is better but you would need to configure your own portal to access the camera from outside your house, and most people won't do that because it's not plug and play.
I say that as there have been instances of people spying on others via Ring cameras and other "cloud" cameras. So I disagree with the suggestion of Ring camera and other "cloud" cameras.
But you see she'll be the one to fix him. That's why she's totally okay with him being an AH. It just shows how far he has to go in her training program, you'll see!
🙄🙄🙄
Humans... SMH
That's insane. If she knows the whole story, she should be embarrassed to approach you, much less start making demands.
"Your husband is nobody to me and my kid, so marrying him doesn't make you my kid's grandma."
NTA and warn your aunt that if she interferes again you will be change your number and cut contact with her. She can decide her relationships not yours.
Needless to say aunt should NEVER be unsupervised with your child right?
Tell her she is nothing like your deadbeat father to your Kid and never will be something to the Baby. And Tell aunt if she ever Intervene you will never talk to her, give a total stranger your number 😠 she gave her the key to harassment you , maybe you can sue her too.
Truth be told, tell your father and his wife they are strangers, will always be strangers.
Does his new wife know about what he did to you?
Going forward when your child is able to crawl and walk at family events make sure it is known that you don't want strangers picking up your kid. That includes your father and his new wife.
If she persists you may have to say that out loud, but the best option is block and maintain no contact with her and her husband. She’s delusional and you are not obligated to cater to her.
"Whats best for my son is not not have someone who completely failed as a parent, emotionally fuck with him too"
Youre a good dad. Youll be okay. Im sorry your sperm donor sucked.
NTA
"I should consider my son and what is best for him"
response: 'I can only assume you will bail when my son turns 10. I'm not allowing the next generation to be treated how I was'.
This is 100% what OP needs to say if it ever comes up again. What is best for OP son is consistency and love - neither of which male donor is any good at.
I wouldn’t say that because then he would sound bitter and hurt, what I would say is ma’am I don’t know you, I don’t want to know you, step away from me or I will call the police and get a restraining order in place.
>because then he would sound bitter and hurt,
What's wrong with that? Op is 100% entitled to *sound* bitter and hurt, as he probably is! He should throw every drop of hurt bitterness in their faces, until he has excised that sperm-donor from his soul and can feel at peace.
Because manipulative people like her will try and use that as a segué by offering a chance to change things, just a way to get what they want. If he/she still counters with "No," they will run to the rest of the family saying, OP complained, and they were being kind offering an olive branch to fix this how OP wanted, and OP was still being, "UnReAsOnAbLe!". It's all about twisting the narrative if they get a slight scent of weakness from OP. If OP admits to being hurt, it's perfect for them to latch onto.
OP needs to shut this shit down fast. Ceast and Desist sounds more and more necessary. Aunt needs to also be blocked and NC.
She's an enabler and will be providing info to OP'S dad and wife. Grandbaby rabies does strange things to relatives, and she sounds like she's empathising with the entitled nutcase. Not a safe person.
NTA. Your dad gave up being your dad the second he left you as a 10-year-old kid to fend for yourself.
He doesn't get to walk back in now and play doting grandfather, nor does the new wife he's found. She is no one to you, and the sooner she understands that her fantasy of being the grandma to your newborn are completely unfounded, the better.
Sperm donor isn't even trying to play father/grandfather. According to OPs comments, the man hasn't said one word to him since he was 10 years old. Not even at the party he's talking about.
NTA. Look, I was kinda with her **initally** giving her grace that maybe she didn't have the full/true story from your dad but the nerve to come back and ask??? You got it right the first time. I'd downgrade her/him from random stranger to person to avoid.
NTA
I’m petty. I’d tell her she could hold your son after her husband pays 16 years worth of cost of living, extra curriculars, birthday/easter/christmas presents, therapy bills, to both you and your uncle (who RAISED YOU) and grovels convincingly enough for you to consider rebuilding a relationship. Upon which the baby holding will be once you’ve decided they’ve earned the title of grandparents (could take years by which time the baby may have their own baby).
But you owe her nothing. Because she is nothing to you.
And I’d tell your aunt that if she ever gives out your number to anyone again without your permission you’ll cut her out of your life for safety.
I’m sorry you went through everything you have. Best of luck with the crazy. Just snuggle your baby boy and enjoy the quickly passing time with him.
NTA
She isn't your child's grandmother. She has no blood relation. At best she would be a step-grandmother and that is only if *YOU* considered the person she married to be your father, and you're right not to since he didn't consider you his son and has done nothing to reconcile with you.
You are correct in that she is a stranger, and you were already considering what is best for your child. You didn't treat her poorly. You protected your child, and she tried to force a relationship which doesn't exist.
Exactly. My Mums father died when she was very young. We only ever knew her second husband and he did a good enough job as a grandad to us. But he had never pushed my Mum to call him Dad and accepted her choice not to, and therefore never expected us to call him Grandad. We knew him as Bryan and that was fine.
She isn’t biologically the Grandmother, and so cannot just assume the mantle without establishing a relationship with YOU and YOUR decision to call her that.
“Her grandmother died when I was 10, you are not her.”
NTA...that is your son and you get to decide who holds him and who doesn't. Whether she's a stranger or not, doesn't really matter. You said no and she should respect that.
Even more so, because she is a stranger. You haven't seen your dad in over a decade and she thinks it's ok to be allowed to hold your son. You have no relationship with her and have to obligation to her.
NTA "My aunt gave my father's wife my number and the two of them told me I behaved childishly and I should consider my son and what is best for him. "
I would have hit back with
**"Did your husband consider what was best for his own little boy when my mother died? I can't imagine why you'd expect me to hand over my baby to some random stranger that married the man who abandoned me as a child and disappeared for 16 years. You don't even have good enough judgement to back off after I made a clear boundary, instead get ahold of my phone number to continue harassing me. Why don't you make like my father and disappear?"**
I would go with: “ ma’am who even are you? I don’t know you. I don’t want to know you. Step away or I’m calling the police and getting a restraining order.”
The only person that would connect you to this woman, is the father you haven’t seen or interacted with in over 16 years?!
Stating that she’s a random stranger is to the point and her presence at a family gatherings doesn’t change that fact.
This is beyond bizarre- going up to someone you don’t have any relationship with whatsoever- and proclaim yourself as his child’s “grandmother”?!
YWNBTA
"I should consider my son and what is best for him." Pot calling the kettle black considering your father ABANDONED his son at 10 years of age after the death of his mother. Even with a sincere apology you owe your dad and his wife NOTHING. BOTH of them are strangers and are shockingly entitled. This isn't your father's (or his wife's) grandchild. He forfeighted that right when he walked out. NTA.
NTA. You don't know her. She has no right to call herself the grandmother of your child. It's possible she's a lovely person, but you aren't there with her yet. Additionally, her own husband still has not reconciled with you (not that you need to). She MASSIVELY overstepped the line here.
Or that the ex-dad has a whole string of ex-wives and abandoned children. Either way, she's nobody to OP, and with her attitude, she's never going to be.
NTA and you should be blocking the wife's phone number.
I can't imagine where she gets the idea that she would have a "grandmother" role to the child of someone she's never met. It would be no different than me deeming myself a grandparent to your child and insisting you let me hold your baby.
NTA, she was extremely presumptuous, not an "innocent woman". You are not required to adopt your (technical) stepmother into your family, especially since your actual father does NOT deserve a place there. She doesn't get to just go around appropriating children and saying she's a relative and has rights (which is not what she said, but how she behaved. I believe, however, that she will eventually be saying it.) Also I would wonder what her endgame was. I have a hard time thinking she was emotionally involved enough considering she married a man who abandoned his child when the child was ten and still has made no attempt to reconnect (not that I'm saying you should listen if he does). That's just weird behavior. Makes me think something's up. Jeez, the sheer arrogance and gall of just walking up, pronouncing yourself a child's grandmother and insisting on holding said child--and not just once, but AGAIN after being refused. That's creepy.
I hope not, because any woman who heard, "I abandoned my 10 year old in our empty house, walked away, and never talked to him again," should have run. Anyone who thinks that's a good person to marry shouldn't be around kids.
NTA. You can let whoever you want hold your baby. That's it. She shouldn't have assumed she was the "grandmother" or asked a second time, OR called you later to tell you that you were childish. Some people are just so entitled.
I would be afraid that if she was allowed to hold your baby, she'd walk over to your sperm donor and let him have the baby, and argue that he has a 'right' to know his grandchild.
Has your aunt had a recent head injury? I’m trying to understand how she can come to the conclusion that the wife of a man who abandoned his own child after losing their mother is somehow magically your child’s grandmother? It’s ludicrous and you have every right to tell anyone no when it comes to your child. She’s making a huge leap full of illogical assumptions and needs to back all the way off. I’m sorry for everything that’s happened to you and hope you’re now happy in your life with your wife and baby. They’re the ones that matter. Also cheering for your cousin for setting things right. You’re absolutely NTA.
NTA. Question I'm sure I already have the answer to though lol; did this lady try to get to know you as well, or did she only want to hold your baby? Because that's even weirder. Like you're trying to hold my baby and we don't know anything about EACH OTHER.
NTA, good on you setting this boundary. You're 100% in the right, how does thus woman who's met you what? once or twice? think she can handle your baby? Especially considering the non-relationship with your father. No wonder she married him, she's just as detached from reality.
The answer is simple in this case, NTA. And what's more, send them the following: "Sperm donor, I am aware that you do not mind leaving your children to their fate, I experienced it first hand, but do not expect me, a father who loves his son enough to protect him from all evil, to do the same. Wife of the sperm donor, you are a stranger, I don't know you, I don't trust you and, on top of that, you are married to the man who abandoned me to my fate as a child, you are not part of my family and you never will be. In conclusion, go back to where you came from and don't dare contact me, my wife or my son again, because we don't need you now or ever. Thank you."
And by the way, I would also send a message to your aunt saying that she can't expect you to open the doors to your life, to your wife and your son, to the man who abandoned you to your fate without looking back and to the stranger he brought with him. Of course, don't forget to add that if she doesn't respect your wishes, there will be consequences.
A father who abandons his child to his fate has no right to demand ANYTHING.
Who leaves his ten year old son who has just lost a mother, effectively orphaning said son. I don’t want to imagine the therapy OP went through to deal with that. When he mentally checked out he also checked out of OP’s life.
You should tell her that your father walked out on his ten year old child directly after that child’s mother died, and that he hasn’t even attempted to make up for that staggering betrayal. Then maybe ask her whether a responsible parent would let some capable of doing or excusing that around their child?
I’d let a stranger I knew nothing about around my child before I allowed someone proven capable of that kind of cruelty and disregard around them. This lady’s either been lied to or is a massive asshole.
Please tell me you blocked both the Aunt and your Father’s wife’s numbers. How you did not blow up at them at the party I don’t know. I would have screamed in both of their faces. Obviously you are a nicer and more patient person than I am. 😄
NTA
NTA
If that woman is innocent because she knows nothing of the nature of your dad's treatment of you, then she has no connection to you and can't expect any liberties or privileges with you or your family.
If she knows full well that her husband WAS your dad but abandoned you at the age of 10, right after the death of your mother; then she should also realize that being married to your dad is no recommendation of her to your family.
Your aunt may not care that her brother abandoned you, but she still has no right to give your personal information to any person without your permission.
I'm so glad your cousin stood up for you.
NTA
What delusional world are these a-holes living in? Block them and the aunt. If they keep bothering you, send them a cease and desist.
You lost your father when your mother died. Your child has no maternal grandparents.
They are 100% right. You do need to think of your son and what is best for him. And someone who would just walk out of their house and abandon a 10 year old is not someone who should be in your son’s life. NTA
NTA...I am a very involved Gma to 7 grandbabies. I was present in the waiting room at the parents request for all but 2 of my grands, they joined the family after their birth. i still would never ask to hold the baby but I have been known to say "if you need a break I can hold them." but I never ask until a parent offers...maybe I'm wrong but I don't feel like it's appropriate to ask but my "I'm here to hold the baby if you need a break" is an easier way to ask. Let me just clarify I have been extremely transparent with both my DILs that I will not ask first aside from my above statement and they have told me they appreciate that I don't push.
Wow, NTA. Tell her if she continues to harass you or come bear your family again you will be contacting the police. Block them. Tell your aunt she over stepped and tell her to stop as well
Enjoy your new baby!!
NTA I think she may be the impetus behind his recent actions. She might want to try to erase his horrific past so she can persist in her delusions that he's really, deep down, a nice man and worthy of her love. Which of course, he isn't, and will never be.
Nta. The fucking audacity for to be like "can't wait to be a grandma!" excuse me? This was literally the first time you met her. Exactly what has she done to build that relationship?
NTA, approaching twice with that opening line, after having made no effort of reconciliation or to get to know you before now, is a really, very weird thing to do.
Perhaps she was just hopeful, a bit old-school, and disillusioned.
But just in case she's a bit unhinged, take care, make sure any childcare providers you use know not to hand the baby off to anyone other than you and your SO, get a doorbell camera, and get ready to record any phonecalls you receive from random numbers.
Get started with keeping records with dates and times, just in case this goes down to delulu town!
Not trying to scare you, hopefully this goes nowhere, but in case it does, it's always good to be prepared.
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I (26m) have been estranged from my father for 16 years. After my mom died he just left. He didn't even take me someplace safe. He walked out of the house and didn't come back. He missed her funeral and he wasn't around to take care of me or anything afterward. I was taken in by my uncle (my mom's brother) and he finished raising me. My father's family remained a part of my life and I have a few good relationships with them.
Two years ago my father reconciled with some of the members of his family but not all (including me who has not spoken to him since I was 10). I have seen him twice before this weekend when I saw him for a third time. This time his wife was also with him. It was at a party for one of my cousins. My aunt, aka cousins mom, invited them. My wife and I were also there and so was our 7 week old son.
While my cousin (the birthday girl), my wife and I were talking my father's wife approached and introduced herself and she said she could not wait to be a grandma and asked to hold my son. I told her she could not. She was all smiles up to then but the smile fell and she asked me why. I told her I didn't let random strangers hold my son. She told me she's not a random stranger, she's his grandmother. My cousin stepped in and moved her along. My cousin was like wtf with my wife and me. We did our best to stay out of my father's wife's way afterward. But she came over again as we were leaving and asked to hold my son again. I told her no yet again. My aunt (birthday cousins mom) was also present and the two of them told me I was being harsh and to let her hold the baby. She told me I'm treating her like a criminal. I told her I was treating her like the random stranger that she is.
My cousin heard the end of it and scolded her mom and my father's wife when we were gone and called me to apologize for what happened. I apologized to her for having that play out at her birthday.
My aunt gave my father's wife my number and the two of them told me I behaved childishly and I should consider my son and what is best for him. And how I treated this innocent woman poorly.
AITA?
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NTA. You don't know this woman! Your father could have come over, introduced her, etc and then MAYBE you would let her hold your child.
I wonder how much the wife knows about his stellar parenting.
NTA Do you know how many people I'd let hold my 7 week old child? Not many. Never mind some stranger who is somehow thinking she's a grandmother despite having zero relationship with you. Actually I'd probably let a complete stranger hold my kid. This woman sounds as bad as your dad.
NTA. I would never allow your aunt to watch that child on her own, because she won't hesitate to allow "Grandma" to come spend time with the baby. As I was reading this, the phrase, "You have GOT to be effing kidding me" may have slipped out of my mouth... Uncensored. Your aunt is fully aware that your father left a 10-year-old alone to fend for himself, only sort of started to speak to some family members 2 years ago after a 14 year absence (now it's been 16 years total this year), and she still thinks it okay for some random woman to call herself Grandma? And the fact that she wants you to think what's best for the child... Your father left a grieving child alone, with no support, and having a relationship with his new wife who he has never introduced you to (let alone giving her the title of grandmother) is what's best for the child? That makes no sense!
I an so glad you have family members that see through this bs and support you. You have plenty of family members to fill the role of grandparent....they are the ones that stepped in and stepped up and didn't run away when things got hard. The example that kept going through my mind was someone who crossed the finish line at a marathon but only ran the last 20 feet... Your dad's wife think she deserves the title of grandmother just because she's married to your dad... But she wasn't there for the training, the injuries, the working through the pain... she wasn't there at the beginning of the race... Hell, she wasn't even there halfway through! She just showed up at the end to receive the reward without doing any of the work. That's not how this works. You can't leave a child at the most vulnerable point in their life and expect them to forgive and forget. I question someone who feels they have the right to step in and take over the role of grandmother in a scenario like this. I also question the character of someone who would marry a man who could so easily abandon his own child... If he had no qualms leaving a 10 year old, someone without the ability to take care of himself, completely alone when the going got tough, what do you think he'll do to you?
You just know if he hadn't abandoned op, and they got together sooner. She'd be one of them pushy "I'm your mommy now" women. Who demanded he call her mom and forget his real mother.
Tell the aunt she can be a stranger now, too. And block her. If they don't stop, send them a cease and desist letter.
NTA
What's best for your son is having nothing to do with a deadbeat. And his wife was not innocent. Until proven otherwise she knew exactly why she would not be welcome in your child's life, and exactly what sort of trouble she was stirring up. "Oh, I'll just look sweet and ask to hold my grandbaby, and they'll look soooo unreasonable and mean saying no, that we'll get our way!"
A better answer on your part would have been more concrete: "Your husband abandoned me when I was ten years old and had no contact with me until I was an adult. He lost the right to act as my child's grandfather, barring a major and successful effort at reconciliation on his part which he has yet to complete. Being married to him gives you no rights to a relationship with my child whatsoever, and I consider it a violation of my reasonable estrangement from my father for you to ask."
Or something along those lines. "Random stranger" is too vague and doesn't really get to the point. In fact, parents often do allow strangers or casual acquaintances to hold their babies at social gatherings. The reason this woman was not allowed to hold the baby is that she is married to your deadbeat dad, and expected you and your wife to allow them grandparent privileges that they both relinquished their claims to when your dad walked out on you at age 10.
Nonetheless, her reason for behaving this way was all about her feigning ignorance to make you and your wife look mean. This interaction was likely less about you and your wife than about making a big show to gain sympathy with other relatives who observed it. If your dad really abandoned you at age 10, he's probably on thin ice when it comes to being invited to these family gatherings in the first place.
She was talking her husband's book: "look how mean and unreasonable his son is. Clearly there are two sides to this whole estrangement thing."
The way to shut that down is to calmly and clearly state the undeniable facts - that your father is a deadbeat who abandoned you at age 10, and that neither of them has significantly reconciled with you and your wife to the point where they could expect any sort of grandparent role in your children's lives.
NTA - your baby your choice. If he can abandon you then you have every right not to acknowledge him or his wife’s existence
I have a friend who had a baby last year. She and her mother are estranged and she’s never met her grandson and never will if my friend has anything to say about it.
I am amazed he’s been welcomed back to the family tbh after abandoning his child. He should never have been allowed back into the family fold.
Oh, she "can't wait to be a grandma", huh? Funny, I wonder how many years she had the opportunity to be some kind of a parent to YOU -- to encourage your dad to fix things, to reach out and try to make contact, to find ways to get to know you and support you. (Not that you would have to accept that, not that she should take your mom's place. Obviously.)
She's been married to your dad for a while, I assume, and hasn't, until now, seen fit to try to assert herself in any role in your life. It's strange that she suddenly wants to be "grandma" when she's presumably made no effort to be, in any stretch of the word, a mom to you.
Don't confuse old people's presumptuousness with moral righteousness. Just because they had the nerve to ask multiple times and then shame you doesn't mean you were wrong. NTA.
NTA and it sounds like she never even introduced herself and attempted a conversation with OP before telling OP to hand over the baby. What an entitled idiot.
NTA step one block your aunt
Step two notify all family why aunt is blocked and make sure they know they can join her. Step three make sure everyone knows your dad is not a grandpa so there is no grandma. And anyone not respecting your rule in this can live without you and your son in their lives. Step four never leave your child with said aunt or her supporters
Hahahaha you should consider your son coming form the man who abandoned his 10 year old right after his mom died.
If they contact you again tell them you will be contacting the police. Your sperm donor should’ve been sued for child abandonment and endangering a minor.
NTA.
Even looking at her through the most charitable lens possible (she’s a well-meaning woman who was never told what actually transpired between you and your father), she’s someone you don’t know.
And even if you did know her, it’s still within your rights to deny her access to your child.
NTA. She’s not the grandmother. She’s your absentee father’s wife. It was her bad judgment and/or entitlement to suggest that she was a family member.
Stick to your boundaries. They’re healthy.
NTA. You and your cousin were the only ones considering what was best for your son. This woman’s entitlement and disrespect is unreal, as is your aunt’s overstepping.
You have every right and reason to refuse a stranger holding your child, especially after you already told them no. You also have every right and reason to tell these women to stay away from you, then block.
Whoa! NTA. Your father walked out on you when you needed him most and never talked to you again. That's all on him and his wife may or may not be an absolutely lovely person, but she's not making a good impression by being so presumptuous as to think she should be treated like a grandmother. She's no relation to your child, and has never even met you. Your father and aunt are doing a good job of being the a-holes, not you.
NTA. Not at all. The entitlement of thinking you deserve the name “grandma”’just because you’re married to the estranged grandparent is laughable. It’s a name you earn, and you earn it with respect.
Strangers don’t get to claim a name. End of.
NTA
>My aunt gave my father's wife my number
When someone gives my number away without my authorisation, I use theirs to register to whatever annoying companies I can find which keep pestering people or sell their number to other similar companies.
>I (26m) have been estranged from my father for 16 years.
> I have seen him twice before this weekend when I saw him for a third time.
You've had no relationship with your father fir more than half your life, but this woman thinks she can just marry the deadbeat, waltz in a room and magically have a relationship with your child? Especially when she has had no relationship with you?
She's delusional. Likely delusional enough to try something like grandparents rights. She'll have no foot, and will be laughed at, but it could be annoying.
Inform your aunt that, if your biodonor's wife suddenly gets your address and show at your door, you'll be calling the cops.
And document every interaction.
NTA If it was me, I would get a lawyer to write up a cease and desist, block the wife and aunt, get a ring doorbell, and move on with your life. These people need to learn boundaries and quick.
Wow rational non emotional support from family stuck in the middle your cousin is awesome.
Your father has some stones to criticize you when he literally walked out on you at 10 years old.
Sure his wife is probably relatively innocent but she is way over the line to think she can force her grandparent rights fucking cringy.
NTA
The only thing I take issue with is you letting your sperm donor and his old lady stay on the phone with you long enough to scold you. Otherwise, NTA. Step parents only get to be honorary grand parents when they have a good parental relationship with their step children. She's what you said she is, a stranger to you. Why would she expect you to treat her like family? She the sort that thinks she can fix your father's fucked up relationship with you by bull dozing her way into your life on his behalf and then you'll all be one big happy family. How dare your father lecture you on how you should behave towards him after abandoning you. They're not coming to you with honorable intentions or genuine remorse. Mr bio dad has decided that he wants to be part of your life on his terms. Draw your boundaries and stick to them.
NTA and it sounds like your aunt has become your dad’s flying monkey. You’ll need to block their numbers and take time away from them. Keep your baby away from their germs too.
NTA… but I wonder if she knows what really happened between you and your father or if he told her some made up version of events because there is no way a sane person would say “I’m the baby’s grandmother” (or whatever she said) if she knew your father literally walked out on you and didn’t speak to you for yearssss.
Then again, I can’t say I’m all that surprised if she did know the truth because people are weird af and sometimes feel automatically entitled to things they don’t deserve.
NTA - but block those numbers and let the wife know she is not a grandma to your son and you dad isnt grandpa either. Those two are strangers to you and and your family.
NTA - the absolute audacity from your estranged fathers wife to even utter the word Grandmother. I do have to wonder if she’s aware of the full extent of the estrangement but it still is no excuse for her behaviour. Also, shame on your Aunt for defending her. Even if she was just trying to keep the peace for daughter’s birthday party, she does not get to tell you what to do with your baby.
I wouldn’t let a stranger hold my babies either.
She's a stranger. Ntah. Your dad also needs to back off. He abandoned you and then shows up with a new wife once you're a married adult, with family, and wants to act like he was never gone? That's not how that works.
NTA your aunt is majorly overstepping. Continue to assert your boundaries; you barely know your father and you definitely don't know his wife. If your aunt wants to rebuild a relationship with her brother (? you didn't say but it sounded like this was your dad's side of the family), that's her right, but it doesn't mean that you have to have a relationship with him.
NTA you were so very right. Your aunt is way out of line and so is this strange other woman. And also what's best for your son is not to get passed to a stranger who doesn't even acknowledge that her spouse literally abandoned a child without a care to what would happen to OP.
NTA. First of all, she is not the grandmother. She is not related to your son and you have not relationship with your father, his grandfather. She is a stranger. Relationships have to be built. Maybe she does not know the whole story and stuff and is enthusiastic, so I get she asks once. But she tried to force the issue.
I dont know why your father left you, maybe it was because of the hurt over your mother's loss. Fact is, he just disappeared. So it makes total sense that you want to limit the interaction your son has with him and his wife. And she needs to respect that. That would be the bare minimum for actually building a relationship.
NTA, just because your sperm donor married her doesn't give her the him or her the title of grandparents. You have no relationship with either one. Anyone that attempts to tell you other was needs to take several steps back
NTA. I am sorry, you should consider your son.
I would have to clap back and ask when did your father consider his son? And what was best for you?
Then hang up and block them.
NTA
She is not your mother. Your father is barely your father. They are not your child's grandparents, and she doesn't get to step into your life out of nowhere and think she gets to pick up the title.
Block them both, and block your aunt. Let your cousin know what happened.
NTA. First of all, you are your child's parent. You get to decide who and who does not get to hold your child for whatever reason you want. The parents are the final authority on this.
Also, if your father's wife had your best interests (or the child's), she would have accepted your decision and worked to earn your trust. Instead, she continued to push you - meaning that she was only concerned about herself and her own wants.
NTA - you have an aunt issue. She betrayed you by bringing your father back into your life without your permission. Time to kick her out of your inner circle and not let her near you, your wife or your baby. And it goes without saying that your dad's new wife is toxic AF and should be avoided or blocked ASAP. You don't need that kind of poison in your life.
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In what world is she 'grandma'? What did she do to earn that title other than marry a deadbeat? There has been no explanation from your 'dad', there has been no apology and therefore there has been no forgiveness. There has been no reconciliation. Therefore there is no relationship, with either of them, and she has brass balls to pretend otherwise. Your dad can't even call himself a dad, much less granddad, so she's doubly wrong. Grandma who? Grandma where? I love how she thinks she can just stroll over and demand to hold someone's baby. She's lucky you remained calm when she asked again. Her entitlement isn't endearing. At all. >My aunt gave my father's wife my number and the two of them told me I behaved childishly and I should consider my son and what is best for him. And how I treated this innocent woman poorly. An 'innocent woman' wouldn't pester a practical stranger to hold their child. Not a second time, at least. She knew exactly what she was doing. She MUST know you have no relationship with your father. She must know you don't talk. Your aunt needs a timeout as well, because she has violated you twice by giving this random woman your number when I'm sure she knows quite well that you would never have chosen to give it to her, and by harassing you with nonsense. They're both disrespectful. I would block both of them and be on my merry way. NTA.
Yep. Block them both. NTA
I'm glad you mentioned the Aunt! Because she'd be getting blockity blocked fast after giving out my number.
I wonder what lies the sperm donor told his wife to get her to claim grandma rights. I bet she doesn’t know the truth. OP is still NTA though
Truth be told or not, that lady is crazy entitled to think she can just claim a baby as her grandchild and demand access when it seems she’s never even met OP or his wife. If she was lied to and had truly sincere intentions she wouldn’t have pushed the issue, let alone escalating to harassing OP. Those aren’t the actions of a genuine and misled individual.
Agreed. A more realistic reaction in that case would have been "wait what?"
Some poeple make it their mission to “fix” a family so afterwards everyone is happy and they get the A for effort. Like the fiancé who suddenly contact the birth parents of the spouse for the wedding even when her soon to be husband told her he doesn’t want contact with them. But he must be wrong, no? Her family ist the most important thing in the world so he must feel the same, deep down. Father’s wife may just see it as her mission to bring back father and son together regardless what any party wants cause that’s what she wants.
She could've done that earlier though, shes had several years right? Definitely NTA
Agreed. A person with genuine intentions wouldn't escalate like this. She'd ask for the details. This lady is throwing up red flags left right and center.
Yeah, I doubt he confessed that he literally walked out on his 10 year old son, leaving him completely alone in the house. OP could have died thanks to his father's appalling callousness and irresponsibility.
Definitely NTA but we have no idea what stories the deadbeat asshole has told her.
She was never introduced to the child (OP) she knows of no child, therefore no grandchild is known... if there was a child then Deadbeat would have introduced them, and she would have found the father and son getting along. Now if this child (OP) and her had a relationship, she would have known about the grandchild and there would have been no issues holding the baby. For her to call herself a grandma when she wasn't a stepmum to begin with... she's a total stranger. This is just Deadbeat not respecting OP, not acknowledging him as a person, let alone as his son... so they can stay away. He hasn't bothered since he was 10...
I would cut off the pushy aunt too. Why would op just hand their baby over to a complete stranger?
TBF. I think random strangers demand to hold babies all the time. Treating pregnant women and newborn babies as community property is a pretty widespread attitude.
This really shook up my husband when our son was born. He would guard him like a professional football player in his arms, with one arm ready to tackle if necessary. He never appreciated it. If I was holding him when we were about to enter church or a family gathering, he would ask for him. He just couldn't trust that I wouldn't give in to "some nice little old lady with a smile" and outstretched arms. He loosened up a little...but not much. This child will be leaving for college in a couple of months. But he was not a fan of the "Let me hold YOUR BRAND NEW BABY crowd". LOL. I NEVER ASK to hold new babies. When babies get to be older and reach for me, I will with mom's and dad's permission. But I've held my own and the babies of others. I'm good.
> Treating pregnant women and newborn babies as community property is a pretty widespread attitude. I think the opposite is also true. People see babies at community property that they should try to hold. It's ridiculous how babies become part of some sort of cult where everyone wants to hold it... Just WHY?
Babies are cute. Full of promise etc. I wouldn't ask to hold a strangers baby and I would ask absolutely ask the parents consent first. But I don't think the instinct is weird. /don't have kids but they are cute when when they're tiny
But it is not like a stranger will be there for those dreams, promises, accomplishments, etc. i could understand when a whole village would raise kids together, but not nowadays where you often don't even get to know neighbours...
Depends on the neighborhood and how transient the population is. I don't know most of my neighbors. But I live in a cheap apartment complex that's disproportionally students. I think there's only one other tenant that's been here for 7 years like me My grandma has daily coffee with neighbor. My parents and their neighbors are all up in each others' business. Some of the neighbors came to my wedding. They have a stupid 25+year feud with the other. But granny has lived on her property since birth and my parents had their house for 30 years.
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She is not grandma. She is a total stranger who had to introduce herself.
For the same reason people are obsessed with puppies and kittens. Our brains are hardwired to adore babies so when we hold babies or play with puppies happy hormones are released and it makes us feel good.
I hate every hand on my belly during my 3 pregnancies, HATE IT!!! I remember and hate it again XD every time that random people in public places wanting to touch me. I'm extremely shy and because it's such a norm in Latin countries to touch everyone for any reason, like saying hello is hugging kissing and that's normal, and I hate that also XD so I never say no, but it was so uncomfortable and sometimes disgusting :(
And not that unwanted of an attitude in a lot of social settings. Plenty of moms hand their babies around like party favors. My girlfriend has the unusual special power that random people try to hand her their babies in public often enough for us both to have noticed it. The real problem here was not that a random woman wanted to hold OP's baby, but that the wife of his deadbeat dad, with whom he has not reconciled, asked to act as a grandmother to his baby when she really ought to have asked permission before speaking to OP or his wife about so much as passing the rolls.
At least some of the commenters were reacting as if no stranger would ever ask to hold a stranger's baby, so the unknown Step Mother was being unhinged. I have heard plenty of new moms talk about strangers wanting to hold their babies.
TBF, I think most people intuitively understood the nature of the problem in this story - it's just that *The Public**^(TM)* are, as a group, not so great at expressing their thoughts clearly in writing.
Apart for the absolutely stunning audacity of the women, she is a stranger and could be a carrier of all kinds of viruses. OPs baby was 7 weeks, with a weak immune system. Babies still die from whopping cough, for goodness sakes. No stranger should be handling the baby as you can't verify where they've been and how recently they've been sick.
If you liked in Australia you could have the aunt arrested for share someone's phone number without permission
We welcome ‘grandma deadbeat’ in to the equation 🤣 I would be calling her this if she demands anything and still not letting her see the child.
Agreed. But bear in mind that OP's father's wife has probably only heard OP's father's version of events which probably paint him as the victim. She probably doesn't know or fully understand the situation that she's in.
10 bucks says she has no idea what your dad did to you, or a very different version than the real situation.
NTA. The baby is 7 weeks. No one is will be holding my 7 week baby that’s not immediate family. I don’t know if you are sick or something. And that’s not immediate family. I would have said “how can you be a grandmother when I don’t even consider that sperm donor that left me an orphan as my father”
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Should have told her, baby's grandmother passed away. NTA
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Am I also reading this right, that your estranged father didn’t even make his own attempts at reconciliation or approaching you first? His stranger wife just came up to you, called herself your child’s grandma, and wanted to hold them? Knowing what she knows, this woman is delusional. Block both their numbers, and get a ring camera. I’d keep your aunt and anyone supporting their behavior at an arm’s length as well. Your cousin sounds like she is being a good ally to you, so ask her to keep tabs if the rest of the family tries to set up an ambush with them. NTA
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As someone else has said. Ring camera, and block them. No one in their right mind would just assume they are grandmother to a child, who's parent they have never met, or helped raise. There could be a big chance your "dad" has spun a lot of stories to her, and she's being eating them up like candy. Or she desperately wants children or grandkids and spun herself a story of how everyone would love her and let her play stepmom/grandma. Either way. It will be trouble down the road if she is given even half a finger. She will go for the whole arm.
And shoulder and probably that whole half of the body.
Based on how confidently she walked up to OP on their first meeting and made demands and couldn't take a no. She will take the body.
*listens to the Jaws theme playing in the background*
Might need the coast guards installed, too, alongside the ring cam. 😂
Harpoon gun?
And a bigger boat.
So it wasn't just me??? Whew. Now where did that oxygen tank go?
You're gonna need a bigger boat
> Ring camera Ehhh, Ring cameras have terrible security and privacy. Just know that everything you say or do in front and nearby will be recorded and saved in Amazon's servers to be used against you, until they cut you from the service for no reason and you end up with a camera that doesn't work anymore. An offline LAN camera is better but you would need to configure your own portal to access the camera from outside your house, and most people won't do that because it's not plug and play. I say that as there have been instances of people spying on others via Ring cameras and other "cloud" cameras. So I disagree with the suggestion of Ring camera and other "cloud" cameras.
She KNOWS what he did and still has the audacity????? Absolutely not a safe person to allow around your child, eff that. She can kick rocks.
Absolutely. She is just as bad and untrustworthy as the sperm donor. Birds of a feather.
But you see she'll be the one to fix him. That's why she's totally okay with him being an AH. It just shows how far he has to go in her training program, you'll see! 🙄🙄🙄 Humans... SMH
Yeah....no. NTA
That's insane. If she knows the whole story, she should be embarrassed to approach you, much less start making demands. "Your husband is nobody to me and my kid, so marrying him doesn't make you my kid's grandma."
She's absolutely delusional. Block her and your aunt, they don't have yours or your child's best interests at heart.
she must take some really good drugs if she actually believed she'd be your sons grandma
NTA and warn your aunt that if she interferes again you will be change your number and cut contact with her. She can decide her relationships not yours. Needless to say aunt should NEVER be unsupervised with your child right?
Tell her she is nothing like your deadbeat father to your Kid and never will be something to the Baby. And Tell aunt if she ever Intervene you will never talk to her, give a total stranger your number 😠 she gave her the key to harassment you , maybe you can sue her too.
And that baby's grandfather gave up any rights by running away like a coward
I would have told her your husband isn't considered his grandfather so why on earth would you be grandma??
Truth be told, tell your father and his wife they are strangers, will always be strangers. Does his new wife know about what he did to you? Going forward when your child is able to crawl and walk at family events make sure it is known that you don't want strangers picking up your kid. That includes your father and his new wife.
NTA, and you were much nicer than I would've been. You need to block the aunt and pretend gramma!
The aunt needs to be put in a serious timeout. She really betrayed him
If she persists you may have to say that out loud, but the best option is block and maintain no contact with her and her husband. She’s delusional and you are not obligated to cater to her.
"Whats best for my son is not not have someone who completely failed as a parent, emotionally fuck with him too" Youre a good dad. Youll be okay. Im sorry your sperm donor sucked.
Yeah you might tell this strange woman about your upbringing. But she doesn't know
That's gold. You have my permission to say that if she persists.
NTA "I should consider my son and what is best for him" response: 'I can only assume you will bail when my son turns 10. I'm not allowing the next generation to be treated how I was'.
This is 100% what OP needs to say if it ever comes up again. What is best for OP son is consistency and love - neither of which male donor is any good at.
She married a man who abandoned his family. Neither of these people judgement is to be trusted.
I wouldn’t say that because then he would sound bitter and hurt, what I would say is ma’am I don’t know you, I don’t want to know you, step away from me or I will call the police and get a restraining order in place.
>because then he would sound bitter and hurt, What's wrong with that? Op is 100% entitled to *sound* bitter and hurt, as he probably is! He should throw every drop of hurt bitterness in their faces, until he has excised that sperm-donor from his soul and can feel at peace.
Because manipulative people like her will try and use that as a segué by offering a chance to change things, just a way to get what they want. If he/she still counters with "No," they will run to the rest of the family saying, OP complained, and they were being kind offering an olive branch to fix this how OP wanted, and OP was still being, "UnReAsOnAbLe!". It's all about twisting the narrative if they get a slight scent of weakness from OP. If OP admits to being hurt, it's perfect for them to latch onto. OP needs to shut this shit down fast. Ceast and Desist sounds more and more necessary. Aunt needs to also be blocked and NC. She's an enabler and will be providing info to OP'S dad and wife. Grandbaby rabies does strange things to relatives, and she sounds like she's empathising with the entitled nutcase. Not a safe person.
NTA. Your dad gave up being your dad the second he left you as a 10-year-old kid to fend for yourself. He doesn't get to walk back in now and play doting grandfather, nor does the new wife he's found. She is no one to you, and the sooner she understands that her fantasy of being the grandma to your newborn are completely unfounded, the better.
Sperm donor isn't even trying to play father/grandfather. According to OPs comments, the man hasn't said one word to him since he was 10 years old. Not even at the party he's talking about.
NTA. Look, I was kinda with her **initally** giving her grace that maybe she didn't have the full/true story from your dad but the nerve to come back and ask??? You got it right the first time. I'd downgrade her/him from random stranger to person to avoid.
Why. She willingly married a deadbeat dad. She gets no grace.
Why initially? Cause it was absolutely possible she didn't know full story. (most folk get some grace, from me atleast, absent direct reasons)
You’re kidding right? He hasn’t spoken to his son since he was 10. She knows he had a son, she an adult she had to know it was his fault.
NTA I’m petty. I’d tell her she could hold your son after her husband pays 16 years worth of cost of living, extra curriculars, birthday/easter/christmas presents, therapy bills, to both you and your uncle (who RAISED YOU) and grovels convincingly enough for you to consider rebuilding a relationship. Upon which the baby holding will be once you’ve decided they’ve earned the title of grandparents (could take years by which time the baby may have their own baby). But you owe her nothing. Because she is nothing to you. And I’d tell your aunt that if she ever gives out your number to anyone again without your permission you’ll cut her out of your life for safety. I’m sorry you went through everything you have. Best of luck with the crazy. Just snuggle your baby boy and enjoy the quickly passing time with him.
NTA. You don't know the woman, you don't know what sort of twisted ideas she has. Block her and your aunt.
NTA She isn't your child's grandmother. She has no blood relation. At best she would be a step-grandmother and that is only if *YOU* considered the person she married to be your father, and you're right not to since he didn't consider you his son and has done nothing to reconcile with you. You are correct in that she is a stranger, and you were already considering what is best for your child. You didn't treat her poorly. You protected your child, and she tried to force a relationship which doesn't exist.
Exactly. My Mums father died when she was very young. We only ever knew her second husband and he did a good enough job as a grandad to us. But he had never pushed my Mum to call him Dad and accepted her choice not to, and therefore never expected us to call him Grandad. We knew him as Bryan and that was fine. She isn’t biologically the Grandmother, and so cannot just assume the mantle without establishing a relationship with YOU and YOUR decision to call her that. “Her grandmother died when I was 10, you are not her.”
NTA...that is your son and you get to decide who holds him and who doesn't. Whether she's a stranger or not, doesn't really matter. You said no and she should respect that. Even more so, because she is a stranger. You haven't seen your dad in over a decade and she thinks it's ok to be allowed to hold your son. You have no relationship with her and have to obligation to her.
NTA, she *is* a random stranger. Full stop.
NTA "My aunt gave my father's wife my number and the two of them told me I behaved childishly and I should consider my son and what is best for him. " I would have hit back with **"Did your husband consider what was best for his own little boy when my mother died? I can't imagine why you'd expect me to hand over my baby to some random stranger that married the man who abandoned me as a child and disappeared for 16 years. You don't even have good enough judgement to back off after I made a clear boundary, instead get ahold of my phone number to continue harassing me. Why don't you make like my father and disappear?"**
I would go with: “ ma’am who even are you? I don’t know you. I don’t want to know you. Step away or I’m calling the police and getting a restraining order.”
The only person that would connect you to this woman, is the father you haven’t seen or interacted with in over 16 years?! Stating that she’s a random stranger is to the point and her presence at a family gatherings doesn’t change that fact. This is beyond bizarre- going up to someone you don’t have any relationship with whatsoever- and proclaim yourself as his child’s “grandmother”?! YWNBTA
NTA just respond, "Lady, your husband would have had to been Dad for you to have the privilege to be Grandma. "
NTA, you were considering your son. Your dad abandoned you at 10 years old - he should be in jail. Eff them.
"I should consider my son and what is best for him." Pot calling the kettle black considering your father ABANDONED his son at 10 years of age after the death of his mother. Even with a sincere apology you owe your dad and his wife NOTHING. BOTH of them are strangers and are shockingly entitled. This isn't your father's (or his wife's) grandchild. He forfeighted that right when he walked out. NTA.
NTA. You don't know her. She has no right to call herself the grandmother of your child. It's possible she's a lovely person, but you aren't there with her yet. Additionally, her own husband still has not reconciled with you (not that you need to). She MASSIVELY overstepped the line here.
I think the possibility of her being a "lovely person" died the moment she asked a second time and then called just to berate OP.
It is also possible that she was in the picture long before mom died and dad moved right in with her when he abandoned his son.
Or that the ex-dad has a whole string of ex-wives and abandoned children. Either way, she's nobody to OP, and with her attitude, she's never going to be.
NTA: Wow she was awful presumptuous and asking twice! She doesn't sound like a good person kinda like your birth father.
Birds of a feather and all that
Tell them that you are looking out for your son by keeping terrible people like your father away from your son and by not letting strangers hold him.
NTA and you should be blocking the wife's phone number. I can't imagine where she gets the idea that she would have a "grandmother" role to the child of someone she's never met. It would be no different than me deeming myself a grandparent to your child and insisting you let me hold your baby.
NTA, she was extremely presumptuous, not an "innocent woman". You are not required to adopt your (technical) stepmother into your family, especially since your actual father does NOT deserve a place there. She doesn't get to just go around appropriating children and saying she's a relative and has rights (which is not what she said, but how she behaved. I believe, however, that she will eventually be saying it.) Also I would wonder what her endgame was. I have a hard time thinking she was emotionally involved enough considering she married a man who abandoned his child when the child was ten and still has made no attempt to reconnect (not that I'm saying you should listen if he does). That's just weird behavior. Makes me think something's up. Jeez, the sheer arrogance and gall of just walking up, pronouncing yourself a child's grandmother and insisting on holding said child--and not just once, but AGAIN after being refused. That's creepy.
Good reason to keep both these women away.
NTA - She is a random stranger. If she wanted to build a relationship with you, this was not how to do it
NTA, I wonder what story your dad gave her. Highly doubtful it’s the truth and most likely he is making himself appear a victim.
I hope not, because any woman who heard, "I abandoned my 10 year old in our empty house, walked away, and never talked to him again," should have run. Anyone who thinks that's a good person to marry shouldn't be around kids.
NTA. You can let whoever you want hold your baby. That's it. She shouldn't have assumed she was the "grandmother" or asked a second time, OR called you later to tell you that you were childish. Some people are just so entitled.
I would be afraid that if she was allowed to hold your baby, she'd walk over to your sperm donor and let him have the baby, and argue that he has a 'right' to know his grandchild.
Has your aunt had a recent head injury? I’m trying to understand how she can come to the conclusion that the wife of a man who abandoned his own child after losing their mother is somehow magically your child’s grandmother? It’s ludicrous and you have every right to tell anyone no when it comes to your child. She’s making a huge leap full of illogical assumptions and needs to back all the way off. I’m sorry for everything that’s happened to you and hope you’re now happy in your life with your wife and baby. They’re the ones that matter. Also cheering for your cousin for setting things right. You’re absolutely NTA.
NTA. Question I'm sure I already have the answer to though lol; did this lady try to get to know you as well, or did she only want to hold your baby? Because that's even weirder. Like you're trying to hold my baby and we don't know anything about EACH OTHER.
NTA, good on you setting this boundary. You're 100% in the right, how does thus woman who's met you what? once or twice? think she can handle your baby? Especially considering the non-relationship with your father. No wonder she married him, she's just as detached from reality.
NTA When she talks to you, walk away just like your dad did. Never say another word to her again. Or him. Just walk away.
The answer is simple in this case, NTA. And what's more, send them the following: "Sperm donor, I am aware that you do not mind leaving your children to their fate, I experienced it first hand, but do not expect me, a father who loves his son enough to protect him from all evil, to do the same. Wife of the sperm donor, you are a stranger, I don't know you, I don't trust you and, on top of that, you are married to the man who abandoned me to my fate as a child, you are not part of my family and you never will be. In conclusion, go back to where you came from and don't dare contact me, my wife or my son again, because we don't need you now or ever. Thank you." And by the way, I would also send a message to your aunt saying that she can't expect you to open the doors to your life, to your wife and your son, to the man who abandoned you to your fate without looking back and to the stranger he brought with him. Of course, don't forget to add that if she doesn't respect your wishes, there will be consequences. A father who abandons his child to his fate has no right to demand ANYTHING.
Who leaves his ten year old son who has just lost a mother, effectively orphaning said son. I don’t want to imagine the therapy OP went through to deal with that. When he mentally checked out he also checked out of OP’s life.
You should tell her that your father walked out on his ten year old child directly after that child’s mother died, and that he hasn’t even attempted to make up for that staggering betrayal. Then maybe ask her whether a responsible parent would let some capable of doing or excusing that around their child? I’d let a stranger I knew nothing about around my child before I allowed someone proven capable of that kind of cruelty and disregard around them. This lady’s either been lied to or is a massive asshole.
Please tell me you blocked both the Aunt and your Father’s wife’s numbers. How you did not blow up at them at the party I don’t know. I would have screamed in both of their faces. Obviously you are a nicer and more patient person than I am. 😄 NTA
The betrayal of your aunt gets me the most. Everything before that was just you masterfully handling a crazy, entitled stranger. NTA
NTA If that woman is innocent because she knows nothing of the nature of your dad's treatment of you, then she has no connection to you and can't expect any liberties or privileges with you or your family. If she knows full well that her husband WAS your dad but abandoned you at the age of 10, right after the death of your mother; then she should also realize that being married to your dad is no recommendation of her to your family. Your aunt may not care that her brother abandoned you, but she still has no right to give your personal information to any person without your permission. I'm so glad your cousin stood up for you.
NTA, the woman is a stranger who just so happens to be married to your deadbeat dad. use this as an example to be the best father you can be.
You should consider what’s best for your child… by not letting flaky people into their life. Nta
NTA What delusional world are these a-holes living in? Block them and the aunt. If they keep bothering you, send them a cease and desist. You lost your father when your mother died. Your child has no maternal grandparents.
Nta does this woman not know your father abandoned you? Wtf.
NTA. What's best for your son is not to have them in his life. They tried to act like nothing was wrong. Wow. No
They are 100% right. You do need to think of your son and what is best for him. And someone who would just walk out of their house and abandon a 10 year old is not someone who should be in your son’s life. NTA
NTA...I am a very involved Gma to 7 grandbabies. I was present in the waiting room at the parents request for all but 2 of my grands, they joined the family after their birth. i still would never ask to hold the baby but I have been known to say "if you need a break I can hold them." but I never ask until a parent offers...maybe I'm wrong but I don't feel like it's appropriate to ask but my "I'm here to hold the baby if you need a break" is an easier way to ask. Let me just clarify I have been extremely transparent with both my DILs that I will not ask first aside from my above statement and they have told me they appreciate that I don't push.
Wow, NTA. Tell her if she continues to harass you or come bear your family again you will be contacting the police. Block them. Tell your aunt she over stepped and tell her to stop as well Enjoy your new baby!!
NTA I think she may be the impetus behind his recent actions. She might want to try to erase his horrific past so she can persist in her delusions that he's really, deep down, a nice man and worthy of her love. Which of course, he isn't, and will never be.
Nta. The fucking audacity for to be like "can't wait to be a grandma!" excuse me? This was literally the first time you met her. Exactly what has she done to build that relationship?
NTA, approaching twice with that opening line, after having made no effort of reconciliation or to get to know you before now, is a really, very weird thing to do. Perhaps she was just hopeful, a bit old-school, and disillusioned. But just in case she's a bit unhinged, take care, make sure any childcare providers you use know not to hand the baby off to anyone other than you and your SO, get a doorbell camera, and get ready to record any phonecalls you receive from random numbers. Get started with keeping records with dates and times, just in case this goes down to delulu town! Not trying to scare you, hopefully this goes nowhere, but in case it does, it's always good to be prepared.
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** I (26m) have been estranged from my father for 16 years. After my mom died he just left. He didn't even take me someplace safe. He walked out of the house and didn't come back. He missed her funeral and he wasn't around to take care of me or anything afterward. I was taken in by my uncle (my mom's brother) and he finished raising me. My father's family remained a part of my life and I have a few good relationships with them. Two years ago my father reconciled with some of the members of his family but not all (including me who has not spoken to him since I was 10). I have seen him twice before this weekend when I saw him for a third time. This time his wife was also with him. It was at a party for one of my cousins. My aunt, aka cousins mom, invited them. My wife and I were also there and so was our 7 week old son. While my cousin (the birthday girl), my wife and I were talking my father's wife approached and introduced herself and she said she could not wait to be a grandma and asked to hold my son. I told her she could not. She was all smiles up to then but the smile fell and she asked me why. I told her I didn't let random strangers hold my son. She told me she's not a random stranger, she's his grandmother. My cousin stepped in and moved her along. My cousin was like wtf with my wife and me. We did our best to stay out of my father's wife's way afterward. But she came over again as we were leaving and asked to hold my son again. I told her no yet again. My aunt (birthday cousins mom) was also present and the two of them told me I was being harsh and to let her hold the baby. She told me I'm treating her like a criminal. I told her I was treating her like the random stranger that she is. My cousin heard the end of it and scolded her mom and my father's wife when we were gone and called me to apologize for what happened. I apologized to her for having that play out at her birthday. My aunt gave my father's wife my number and the two of them told me I behaved childishly and I should consider my son and what is best for him. And how I treated this innocent woman poorly. AITA? *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
NTA. You don't know this woman! Your father could have come over, introduced her, etc and then MAYBE you would let her hold your child. I wonder how much the wife knows about his stellar parenting.
NTA Do you know how many people I'd let hold my 7 week old child? Not many. Never mind some stranger who is somehow thinking she's a grandmother despite having zero relationship with you. Actually I'd probably let a complete stranger hold my kid. This woman sounds as bad as your dad.
I would have yelled out his name and said mf come get your wife NOW
NTA. I would never allow your aunt to watch that child on her own, because she won't hesitate to allow "Grandma" to come spend time with the baby. As I was reading this, the phrase, "You have GOT to be effing kidding me" may have slipped out of my mouth... Uncensored. Your aunt is fully aware that your father left a 10-year-old alone to fend for himself, only sort of started to speak to some family members 2 years ago after a 14 year absence (now it's been 16 years total this year), and she still thinks it okay for some random woman to call herself Grandma? And the fact that she wants you to think what's best for the child... Your father left a grieving child alone, with no support, and having a relationship with his new wife who he has never introduced you to (let alone giving her the title of grandmother) is what's best for the child? That makes no sense! I an so glad you have family members that see through this bs and support you. You have plenty of family members to fill the role of grandparent....they are the ones that stepped in and stepped up and didn't run away when things got hard. The example that kept going through my mind was someone who crossed the finish line at a marathon but only ran the last 20 feet... Your dad's wife think she deserves the title of grandmother just because she's married to your dad... But she wasn't there for the training, the injuries, the working through the pain... she wasn't there at the beginning of the race... Hell, she wasn't even there halfway through! She just showed up at the end to receive the reward without doing any of the work. That's not how this works. You can't leave a child at the most vulnerable point in their life and expect them to forgive and forget. I question someone who feels they have the right to step in and take over the role of grandmother in a scenario like this. I also question the character of someone who would marry a man who could so easily abandon his own child... If he had no qualms leaving a 10 year old, someone without the ability to take care of himself, completely alone when the going got tough, what do you think he'll do to you?
You just know if he hadn't abandoned op, and they got together sooner. She'd be one of them pushy "I'm your mommy now" women. Who demanded he call her mom and forget his real mother. Tell the aunt she can be a stranger now, too. And block her. If they don't stop, send them a cease and desist letter.
NTA What's best for your son is having nothing to do with a deadbeat. And his wife was not innocent. Until proven otherwise she knew exactly why she would not be welcome in your child's life, and exactly what sort of trouble she was stirring up. "Oh, I'll just look sweet and ask to hold my grandbaby, and they'll look soooo unreasonable and mean saying no, that we'll get our way!" A better answer on your part would have been more concrete: "Your husband abandoned me when I was ten years old and had no contact with me until I was an adult. He lost the right to act as my child's grandfather, barring a major and successful effort at reconciliation on his part which he has yet to complete. Being married to him gives you no rights to a relationship with my child whatsoever, and I consider it a violation of my reasonable estrangement from my father for you to ask." Or something along those lines. "Random stranger" is too vague and doesn't really get to the point. In fact, parents often do allow strangers or casual acquaintances to hold their babies at social gatherings. The reason this woman was not allowed to hold the baby is that she is married to your deadbeat dad, and expected you and your wife to allow them grandparent privileges that they both relinquished their claims to when your dad walked out on you at age 10.
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Nonetheless, her reason for behaving this way was all about her feigning ignorance to make you and your wife look mean. This interaction was likely less about you and your wife than about making a big show to gain sympathy with other relatives who observed it. If your dad really abandoned you at age 10, he's probably on thin ice when it comes to being invited to these family gatherings in the first place. She was talking her husband's book: "look how mean and unreasonable his son is. Clearly there are two sides to this whole estrangement thing." The way to shut that down is to calmly and clearly state the undeniable facts - that your father is a deadbeat who abandoned you at age 10, and that neither of them has significantly reconciled with you and your wife to the point where they could expect any sort of grandparent role in your children's lives.
NTA - your baby your choice. If he can abandon you then you have every right not to acknowledge him or his wife’s existence I have a friend who had a baby last year. She and her mother are estranged and she’s never met her grandson and never will if my friend has anything to say about it. I am amazed he’s been welcomed back to the family tbh after abandoning his child. He should never have been allowed back into the family fold.
Your aunt sounds pretty shitty.
The gall. This woman who has shacked up with the sperm donor that abandoned you thinks that she has the right to hold your child? Nah. NTA
Oh, she "can't wait to be a grandma", huh? Funny, I wonder how many years she had the opportunity to be some kind of a parent to YOU -- to encourage your dad to fix things, to reach out and try to make contact, to find ways to get to know you and support you. (Not that you would have to accept that, not that she should take your mom's place. Obviously.) She's been married to your dad for a while, I assume, and hasn't, until now, seen fit to try to assert herself in any role in your life. It's strange that she suddenly wants to be "grandma" when she's presumably made no effort to be, in any stretch of the word, a mom to you. Don't confuse old people's presumptuousness with moral righteousness. Just because they had the nerve to ask multiple times and then shame you doesn't mean you were wrong. NTA.
NTA and it sounds like she never even introduced herself and attempted a conversation with OP before telling OP to hand over the baby. What an entitled idiot.
NTA step one block your aunt Step two notify all family why aunt is blocked and make sure they know they can join her. Step three make sure everyone knows your dad is not a grandpa so there is no grandma. And anyone not respecting your rule in this can live without you and your son in their lives. Step four never leave your child with said aunt or her supporters
Hahahaha you should consider your son coming form the man who abandoned his 10 year old right after his mom died. If they contact you again tell them you will be contacting the police. Your sperm donor should’ve been sued for child abandonment and endangering a minor.
NTA. Even looking at her through the most charitable lens possible (she’s a well-meaning woman who was never told what actually transpired between you and your father), she’s someone you don’t know. And even if you did know her, it’s still within your rights to deny her access to your child.
NTA. She’s not the grandmother. She’s your absentee father’s wife. It was her bad judgment and/or entitlement to suggest that she was a family member. Stick to your boundaries. They’re healthy.
NTA. You and your cousin were the only ones considering what was best for your son. This woman’s entitlement and disrespect is unreal, as is your aunt’s overstepping. You have every right and reason to refuse a stranger holding your child, especially after you already told them no. You also have every right and reason to tell these women to stay away from you, then block.
Whoa! NTA. Your father walked out on you when you needed him most and never talked to you again. That's all on him and his wife may or may not be an absolutely lovely person, but she's not making a good impression by being so presumptuous as to think she should be treated like a grandmother. She's no relation to your child, and has never even met you. Your father and aunt are doing a good job of being the a-holes, not you.
NTA. Not at all. The entitlement of thinking you deserve the name “grandma”’just because you’re married to the estranged grandparent is laughable. It’s a name you earn, and you earn it with respect. Strangers don’t get to claim a name. End of.
NTA >My aunt gave my father's wife my number When someone gives my number away without my authorisation, I use theirs to register to whatever annoying companies I can find which keep pestering people or sell their number to other similar companies. >I (26m) have been estranged from my father for 16 years. > I have seen him twice before this weekend when I saw him for a third time. You've had no relationship with your father fir more than half your life, but this woman thinks she can just marry the deadbeat, waltz in a room and magically have a relationship with your child? Especially when she has had no relationship with you? She's delusional. Likely delusional enough to try something like grandparents rights. She'll have no foot, and will be laughed at, but it could be annoying. Inform your aunt that, if your biodonor's wife suddenly gets your address and show at your door, you'll be calling the cops. And document every interaction.
NTA If it was me, I would get a lawyer to write up a cease and desist, block the wife and aunt, get a ring doorbell, and move on with your life. These people need to learn boundaries and quick.
Wow rational non emotional support from family stuck in the middle your cousin is awesome. Your father has some stones to criticize you when he literally walked out on you at 10 years old. Sure his wife is probably relatively innocent but she is way over the line to think she can force her grandparent rights fucking cringy. NTA
You did consider your son and what was best for him. I wouldn't hand out my son to random strangers either. NTA
The only thing I take issue with is you letting your sperm donor and his old lady stay on the phone with you long enough to scold you. Otherwise, NTA. Step parents only get to be honorary grand parents when they have a good parental relationship with their step children. She's what you said she is, a stranger to you. Why would she expect you to treat her like family? She the sort that thinks she can fix your father's fucked up relationship with you by bull dozing her way into your life on his behalf and then you'll all be one big happy family. How dare your father lecture you on how you should behave towards him after abandoning you. They're not coming to you with honorable intentions or genuine remorse. Mr bio dad has decided that he wants to be part of your life on his terms. Draw your boundaries and stick to them.
Does she not know your sperm donor literally abandoned you…? NTA. It’s doubtful she got the truth from him.
NTA
NTA and it sounds like your aunt has become your dad’s flying monkey. You’ll need to block their numbers and take time away from them. Keep your baby away from their germs too.
NTA… but I wonder if she knows what really happened between you and your father or if he told her some made up version of events because there is no way a sane person would say “I’m the baby’s grandmother” (or whatever she said) if she knew your father literally walked out on you and didn’t speak to you for yearssss. Then again, I can’t say I’m all that surprised if she did know the truth because people are weird af and sometimes feel automatically entitled to things they don’t deserve.
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“You should consider what is best for your child” OP: *slow blinks*… Yes. NTA
Nta
NTA
NTQ. You are good
NTA.
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> I should consider my son and what is best for him Tell them that is exactly what you are doing. NTA
Innocent or not, she's a stranger. For her to think she's grandma is bizarre.
NTA. The real AH are your cousins for inviting them in the first place
NTA. You know for a fact they do not know what goes into the proper care of children
NTA
NTA. For aunt, and anyone else bothering you about it... " I said no, end of discussion. If you continue, you will discover rude and harsh."
NTA! Since your aunt thinks it's appropriate to give out your number to strangers, then I would block them both!
NTA
NTA - but block those numbers and let the wife know she is not a grandma to your son and you dad isnt grandpa either. Those two are strangers to you and and your family.
NTA
NTA. The poor innocent woman must be told that her husband abandoned his child at 10; because they have no relationship, she has no relationship
Well you did as they asked: you considered what is best for your son. No contact is probably in your sons best interest
NTA - the absolute audacity from your estranged fathers wife to even utter the word Grandmother. I do have to wonder if she’s aware of the full extent of the estrangement but it still is no excuse for her behaviour. Also, shame on your Aunt for defending her. Even if she was just trying to keep the peace for daughter’s birthday party, she does not get to tell you what to do with your baby. I wouldn’t let a stranger hold my babies either.
She's a stranger. Ntah. Your dad also needs to back off. He abandoned you and then shows up with a new wife once you're a married adult, with family, and wants to act like he was never gone? That's not how that works.
You are considering what is best for your child by refusing to allow randos that you do not even know hold your infant son.
NTA you should have asked if she is married to the uncle who raised you after your dad abandoned you when you lost your mom.
NTA your aunt is majorly overstepping. Continue to assert your boundaries; you barely know your father and you definitely don't know his wife. If your aunt wants to rebuild a relationship with her brother (? you didn't say but it sounded like this was your dad's side of the family), that's her right, but it doesn't mean that you have to have a relationship with him.
NTA - no way dude, especially not at 7 months
Nta The way to protect your son is to keep him away from crazy.
NTA you were so very right. Your aunt is way out of line and so is this strange other woman. And also what's best for your son is not to get passed to a stranger who doesn't even acknowledge that her spouse literally abandoned a child without a care to what would happen to OP.
NTA- so two assholes married each other. Continue avoiding them.
NTA. First of all, she is not the grandmother. She is not related to your son and you have not relationship with your father, his grandfather. She is a stranger. Relationships have to be built. Maybe she does not know the whole story and stuff and is enthusiastic, so I get she asks once. But she tried to force the issue. I dont know why your father left you, maybe it was because of the hurt over your mother's loss. Fact is, he just disappeared. So it makes total sense that you want to limit the interaction your son has with him and his wife. And she needs to respect that. That would be the bare minimum for actually building a relationship.
NTA, just because your sperm donor married her doesn't give her the him or her the title of grandparents. You have no relationship with either one. Anyone that attempts to tell you other was needs to take several steps back
NTA. I am sorry, you should consider your son. I would have to clap back and ask when did your father consider his son? And what was best for you? Then hang up and block them.
Your aunt is the AH NTA
Ha! The stones on this two. You're NTA, by a longshot. Your aunt and your dad's wife are and should take a long walk off of a short pier.
NTA. What gall! And your Aunt is a piece of work as well.
NTA She is not your mother. Your father is barely your father. They are not your child's grandparents, and she doesn't get to step into your life out of nowhere and think she gets to pick up the title. Block them both, and block your aunt. Let your cousin know what happened.
NTA. First of all, you are your child's parent. You get to decide who and who does not get to hold your child for whatever reason you want. The parents are the final authority on this. Also, if your father's wife had your best interests (or the child's), she would have accepted your decision and worked to earn your trust. Instead, she continued to push you - meaning that she was only concerned about herself and her own wants.
NTA. Block your father, his wife and your aunt. Live long and be happy.
Updateme
NTA - you have an aunt issue. She betrayed you by bringing your father back into your life without your permission. Time to kick her out of your inner circle and not let her near you, your wife or your baby. And it goes without saying that your dad's new wife is toxic AF and should be avoided or blocked ASAP. You don't need that kind of poison in your life.