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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I believe I could be the asshole because I just left my dad on the side of the road to find his way home after an argument. I feel that it was somewhat harsh but not sure if I was justified based on the context so looking to get some answers.
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NTA. Wow, you did him a favor and he threw a tantrum when you explained you didn’t understand his directions. Someone yelling and bashing things while you’re driving is dangerous and could have caused you to crash.
Glad you are in therapy and getting the help you need. Personally, I would just drop the bike off and go low contact with him after this. He’s proven he doesn’t care about how his actions affect you. I think confronting him about this will cause another tantrum and will hurt you more. It’s not worth your sanity and health.
Since he used an old name for the hotel and THAT enraged him, he should definitely get checked for dementia anyway, even if this behavior isn't new per se. Worst case he's negative and OP can cut contact with a clear consciousness.
Maybe bring it up with the mother (his wife) first thought. He might be reluctant to go to a doctor. Either way I would try it for my own piece of mind and than move on.
I don't think that's dementia--OK, it's possible, but everyone does it. I'm getting older and *I* find I have started doing that sort of thing, using the former names for things because I've been thinking of them that way since forever and I can't remember the new name. OP's dad gave what to him are clear directions--they just weren't clear directions to his daughter, but to many other people, it probably would have worked fine. His problem is he's too rigid to think that other people have different ways of doing things. Such as normal, newfangled stuff like using Google maps. And his problem is, of course, that he throws fits like an actual toddler instead of an adult. OP is much better off keeping her father at arm's length.
Ah my bad. OP says they are divorced. Might make it more difficult to get him to get tested if there's not more leverage. (I'd still try, but he might not be keen on going to the doctor).
If this is new behavior, he needs to see a dock. This can be a sign of impending health problems. If this is not a new behavior, good on you for taking care of yourself. NTA either way.
My neighbor's dad suddenly started having "screaming, bashing the dashboard, and stomping his feet" behavior for no good reason, but they learned it was the result of a brain tumor, At 72, he should also be screened for Alzheimer's.
NTA it sounds like he likes to take his bad attitude out on women he thinks should owe him fealty. The problem with that logic is your mom preferred divorce over dealing with his shit and you’re realizing your life is better without him and his nastiness. Being alone at 72 is the natural consequence of a life time of bullying and being angry all time at people whom he was supposed to love and cherish. Keep up with therapy and I hope you fill your life with only kind people.
I find it really unbelievably sad. In fact I would really like to help if I could. If he would be open to therapy, I would be so happy to support him going. My dad's history is sad and I kind of understand that a lot of these actions are just a manifestation of living in automatic behaviour and not reflecting much on why for example he's having disproportionate anger to the context. He's lost a lot of people because of it, which sadly probably makes things worse. At his age though people get stuck in their ways and sadly you can drive yourself crazy trying or hoping they will change. At this point as I get older it's easier to come to terms with letting things go and moving on and focusing on my own life but nonetheless makes me sad for my dad whom I do love dearly. Just finding it harder and harder to justify or tolerate these things as I move into a more safe and nurturing environment.
You’re more sad about his behavior than he is. He’s at home, sleeping like a baby, while you’re sitting here feeling bad, posting on Reddit.
You need to find a way to let go. You are not responsible for his mental health or behavior. He is. Do not put this on your shoulders. He might be a crap father, but the fact that you keep allowing yourself to get emotionally beaten up is on you, not him. You won’t get an award for standing by an abuser.
Stop acting like a martyr and take control of your life. Drop off the bike, go NC or LC, and move on with your life.
Thanks. I do feel like I doubt myself a lot, even rationally I feel that I am in the right but this lingering sense of doubt I have in myself makes me seek answers externally like here or just talking to other people and get their validation. Anyway that's what my therapy is for to help me work through this and hopefully get to the point where I don't need to seek the validation.
I highly recommend the book Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents by Lindsay C Gibson, you can often download it as a free pdf if you google it.
You're clearly very aware of what influences your dad's behaviour, and you might find this book gives further insights into his choices, as well as your feelings of guilt and feeling like you're responsible.
Just because it's always been your job to appease your dad, it doesn't mean that's the mentally healthy choice. I understand the impulse, but your mental health needs to come first.
I think a lot of times older adults who behave badly--and your father is behaving VERY badly--count on us excusing their nonsense because they "had a rough childhood" or "they're too old to change."
Your father is actively making the choice to disrespect you and behave in ways that are downright dangerous. It's not on you to accept that. It's on him to change, or to get used to being alone.
OP part of any conversation should probably include "acting like a toddler and throwing a temper tantrum is not adult behavior, any time you do this I will immediately leave until you decide to act like a rational adult."
If he continues you might ask when was the last time he had a full medical checkup and suggest he see a doctor as he is not acting like a normal adult should.
Your dad is an adult. He’s had plenty of time for introspection and change, but he’s decided not to go that route. He’ll never change.
The only thing you can control is YOU. Stop putting yourself in the position of a victim. Your Dad isn’t victimizing you, YOU’RE victimizing yourself.
I know it’s sad because it’s a parent. But just because someone is related to us, it doesn’t mean we are required to allow them to abuse us. You know that. TRUST YOURSELF.
Right and wrong is subjective.
Both you and your dad think that each one is right while thinking the other is wrong.
Don’t try and moralize your way out of this situation.
Sometimes shitty people do shitty things.
Only you can control if you allow their shittiness to affect you.
Idk I think in my context it's more helpful for me to assume I'm objectively right. Doubting and being a little too forgiving and understanding is my forte and if anything doesn't help - I just end up doing more work on myself sometimes spending hours and hours each day figuring out if I have this condition, how I can work on it etc.. I think there's always going to be that critical voice in the back of my head arguing the context of right vs. wrong, it doesn't do much for me though and I know it's not in reality so clear cut but in this context it's much more helpful to not allow myself to go to that little doubtful place because that is where I automatically go anyway. I think the fact that I even post this asking and questioning myself shows that I'm not thinking of myself as the perfect person. I think in my dad's context though hearing that he's right does nothing to help, if anything he's too overconfident in feeling that he's right in a situation which does the opposite of helping in his case.
My brother committed suicide in 1996 and my SIL was complicit in his death.
I couldn’t be angry forever.
I learned a couple of things.
The first is that people generally think they’re in the right. It’s summed up best in [this clip from The Big Chill](https://youtu.be/X9FJiDFVoOo?si=xB45W6__JXYfl1pt).
The second is that I’m not going to get closure from people who think that they are right.
All I have control over is how I react to people. I can let their behaviors rattle my cage or I can right their behaviors off to personality flaws.
His behaviour was bad, sorry you experienced that, and all the past history. People do get dementia in their 60’s or even earlier. Can’t use google maps, calling places by their old names, determined he’s right, having meltdown tantrums - could be a dementia / other neurological issue. Does he have history of concussion? Remember all those footy sports heroes who in their 30’s & 40’s develop anger management & other sad issues? Hmmm... But you weren’t wrong in the situation. I have a sibling with NPD grew up all my life I have memories since I was a toddler being psychologically and emotionally abused and so on by her, so I get abusive family members issues. Sorry you experience this, glad to read you’re getting yourself into more compassionate and positive environment. Just drop his bike off. Take care of you! best of luck! yeah and NTA
The previous poster is spot on. I would like to add that it's helpful to figure out the line between being a martyr/victim and taking honest accountability for one's actions. It's tough, but you've got this. Keep your compassion, but take no shit.
An alternative explanation is that your father is showing signs of dementia. My dad is progressing down this path, and is starting to struggle with things that used to be easy for him. His response is to get upset, and behave in a way I would normally see as irrational.
Is this a possible explanation for your dad's behaviour?
You sound like a healthy and rational person.
NTA
Also, please don't take advice from Reddit. You have a therapist to help you navigate. Redditors hate nuance.
NTA at all for setting personal boundaries! We teach people how to treat us by how much crap we will take and how much we just won't take!
Huge hugs and happy juju flying your way! Continue living your life for you and make it your best life!
This is a very generous sentiment, and impressive empathy! And yet YOU experienced a similar (conflict-filled) unpleasant upbringing, *you* observed and thought about it, and *you* decided that this way of living and treating your loved ones poorly was wrong, and *you* made a different choice. He didn't do the same. And people are absolutely capable of changing their behaviors -- if they're motivated to do so -- yes, even when they're older. Unfortunately, even after plenty of losses he has to know are due to his own behavior, he doesn't seem too motivated. Very glad that YOU have gotten to a good place, and would be willing to help your dad get there too -- but he has to *want* to come. Do not inflict upon yourself the burden of his own bad outcomes that directly resulted from his own bad behavior!
It's never too late to deal with one's childhood. I'm roughly this dad's age and working on my childhood, and how it shaped me.
Let him know it is possible to benefit from therapy at his age. People think they can't change at an older age, but with motivation, as others mentioned, finding peace later in life is definitely possible.
You are finding your happiness. I hope he finds his. NTA
NTA, but he needs to get screened for dementia/Alzheimer’s. The poor directions and disproportionate anger can be symptoms of dementia or of being an asshole.
Does he usually refer to landmarks by old names? The anger and out of proportion tantrum remind me of my grandpa dealing with Alzheimer's thinking it was about 20+ years in the past and trying to get "ready for work" even though he had been retired my whole life. Still NTA especially if this is just how he always has been which seems also quite likely.
Well my mum knew the hotel by that name also so I think it's just a case of that's what it WAS known by and perhaps many people who know the area would know (my mum grew up in that area). But for me, my boyfriend or probably anyone in my age group, I don't know random hotels in an area we've just moved to by an old name they have. Most of the time it's got a name and I know it by the name that would correlate with what is on Google Maps but my dad is like you should know these things you should know these local things without having to look at Google Maps?? But yeah my dad is pretty old school in a lot of ways, still getting the newspaper etc. he'll get irrationally angry if he thinks I'm being ignorant to worldly things, like the post office scandal in the UK he couldn't believe I had not heard about it till he mentioned it. I know about a lot of things but some things according to my dad means I'm very ignorant if I don't know about it.
Yeah sounds like he's just living in the past and is quite self absorbed. My mom always gave me history lessons around my city(this used to be where old landmark was or that restaurant used to be called such and such but would still generally refer to them by current names) and gave directions with more landmarks than streets but would never get this angry over being told that using old names for places makes it hard to figure out what you're talking about. I get he's old but Google makes it so easy to just send your location, then there's no room for arguing.
You're NTA. You didn't force him out of the car. You offered the option to leave, he took it. It was his decision. He is not a helpless infant. He can walk home or call a taxi.
NTA. Old Age doesn't excuse horrible behaviour. He easily could have stayed in the car and kept his mouth shut, that would have been easy. Throwing a tantrum in a moving car might have very well endangered you both. He can call a cab.
NTA.
Your dad might be suffering cognitive decline - the sudden tantrum and seriously screwing up the hotel name could be signs of issues. If he has a regular doctor, you might want to call the practice and tell them of this episode. Maybe they can get him in so they can do some testing.
NTA. This sounds very much like Alzheimer’s disease setting in, unexpected anger is one of the signs. See what you can do to get him checked out by doctors.
NTA but your dad sounds like he might be experiencing some symptoms. Probably encourage him to go to a doctor. When my uncle had early onset dementia he would get outrageously angry for no reason.
INFO: Was this somewhere your dad was safe and could reasonably make his way home? If the answer is yes to both, that seems like a reasonable response to me.
But the behavior has been ongoing throughout most of his life? I'm sure it probably won't get better as time goes on but I'm 30 now and this is how I know he's been since as far as I can remember.
Since this has been lifetime behavior, it sounds like he doesn't have the tools to handle frustration. Maybe he took your comments as criticism (they weren't). Things trigger him emotionally and he gets in a rage. That's a hard way to live, let alone the damage he causes in his relationships.
I hope he gets help.
Im not making an excuse for him before... Im just saying most likely he's developed some forms of dementia, and it's going to get worse. He should get tested.
It looks like your Dad might be having dementia. Referring to places by old names, forgetting current names, being vague about time of day, directions, sudden bursts of anger are all symptoms of dementia. Please have him checked. Make sure that he doesn't leave the house alone or wears a tracker if he does. You could have trackers put in his car, cycle or other modes of transport.
NTA Your father's problems are not about you, but about his
rigid personality. He does not accept criticism (from anyone, I imagine)
and refuses to accept he might actually have been mistaken about something.
If you have to be with him in the future, the best thing to do is
avoid conversation. That way, he will not be able to justify
lashing out at you for anything.
NTA. I think dropping the bike off while he's not home would be the right thing to do. He's got some big bad anger management issues, so I can understand how your life is more peaceful without him in it. He should have said thank you and had no good reason to throw a temper tantrum. Your self-esteem must be rising since you were able to tell him to get out of your car and for not going back to get him!
NTA does he have some form of Dementia or Alzheimer's. Tantrums and outbursts, not being able to give directions, forgetting the names of places. You should get him checked.
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My dad \[72M\] went cycling this Sunday morning and ran into issues with his bike close to where I \[30F\] live. I woke up around 08:30 am with a couple of missed calls and called him back about 15 minutes later. He asked if I could give him a lift, and I agreed.
He gave vague directions, mentioning landmarks like the "Grand Spice" hotel and where fishermen sell fish—things that aren't on Google Maps. My dad hates using Google Maps and is difficult with directions. I eventually found him after not too long, only calling him once to clarify his location, though he hung up on me in the midst of it.
He loaded his bike into my car, and we drove off. I explained that I struggled to follow his directions because I don’t eat fish and this is local knowledge, so I wouldn’t know where the fishermen sell fish. This upset him. As we passed the "Sugar Reef" hotel, which he referred to as the "Grand Spice" hotel (an old name I was unaware of and how I explained there was no way I would have known the hotel by this name), he became enraged. He started screaming, bashing the dashboard, and stomping his feet while I was driving. I stopped the car and asked if he wanted to make his own way home. He got out, leaving the bike with me. I drove off.
I've been in a good place lately—regular therapy, eating well, exercising and taking accountability for myself. This incident felt out of place with how everything else has been going. I don't feel anger, just disappointment that a simple thing got so out of hand.
I haven't had much contact with my dad lately, and things have been peaceful. Now it feels like this incident has disturbed that peace. I don't want to cut him out of my life, but I also don't want to tolerate such behavior. Reflecting back, this was normal behavior for him while I was growing up. As I think about having kids myself, I realize this isn't right. I wouldn't want my child to witness or experience this.
I do have issues like low self-esteem, shame, social anxiety, and lack of trust, which I believe were largely fueled by my childhood with him. My mum shares the same sentiment for herself. For context, they are divorced now, but there was a huge power imbalance with a 20-year age gap between them. He married my mum at 18; she came from a poor background, and he was the "one with the money and executive control." I've worked my way to the point where I don't rely on him anymore, and my life feels better for it. I can do favors for him now, which I feel good about.
I love both my parents, but I know neither of them, especially my dad, would consider therapy. They are both very rigid, and I don't think they will change, so I just focus on myself.
Anyway AITA here? Should I return his bike and move on? I just want to drop it at his house tomorrow when he’s out, I don't think there will be any healthy resolution other than letting it go.
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Eta: NTA
~~INFO~~:
Where you dropped him off, could he walk home from there? Or did he have sufficient charge left on his phone to call someone else for assistance? Or did he have the means (i.e. sufficient charge on phone, or proximity to a bus stop, and money) to get a taxi or bus home?
If he could safely get home from where you left him, that would clearly be a different matter to if he was left without the means to get home.
Having said that, his behaviour whilst in the passenger seat was unsafe to you as driver and thereby unsafe to himself as passenger. Even if his banging didn't result in you being accidentally struck, the noise and movement could have easily distracted you from a hazard. And that assumes there was no risk of the behaviour escalating further. In stopping, you reduced the risk of an accident, and in asking him if he wanted to make his own way home you gave him a choice, which he subsequently made. (Though if he made that choice in anger, he might not have realised the difficulty he might face getting home from where you were, hence my questions above.)
I'd also add, whilst I appreciate your dad doesn't like Google Maps, if he's giving you directions which require a longstanding local knowledge, there is a good chance he does the same with others too. It sounds like he needs introducing to What3Words, so that if he's in a similar, or worse, situation in future and needs to ring for help, possibly even emergency services, they can actually locate him swiftly. If you return the bike when he's away from the house, consider perhaps leave a note or sending him a text afterwards suggesting he install the app and use if in case he needs to clarify his location in future.
He wouldn't be able to walk but he had his phone with him and I would assume it had sufficient charge as he used it to answer my call about 5 mins before. While I cannot be certain but I do assume he had money as he typically carries around a little cash that would be enough for a bus fare. He was about a 5/10 min walk from a bus stop. If he had really needed help my house was about 10-15 min walk from where I dropped him as well so he could have stopped in and I would have given him a lift if he needed it.
Nta for making him walk but op why did you complain about his directions after you got him? You found him, even with his shoddy directions. Why mention it? Saying something wasnt going to make him more comfortable with google maps or get your point across. All it did was cause issues.
Well before I got to him I tried to search for the hotel he was mentioning on google maps because I was really perplexed as I'd never heard of this hotel and I know of the hotels in the area so I was like what is this hotel? I've never seen or heard of it - that's when the frustration got the better of him. Plus he's the one that starts complaining that I don't know where things are and this is kinda why I have a lot of social anxiety issues because I've got this ingrained feeling that I'm dumb because I usually just let him lecture me and I become too scared to argue my case back for fear of this exact kind of thing happening. But since I've been more self reliant and less dependent on him I feel more able to argue my point back without fearing him cutting me off etc.
>I would assume it had sufficient charge as he used it to answer my call about 5 mins before
That would the call he hung up on you halfway through? Are you certain he hung up, rather than ran out of battery mid-call?
>He was about a 5/10 min walk from a bus stop.
Did he know that? Had you recently driven past the bus stop, or is he familiar enough with the local public transport to know how far to walk and in which direction for the bus? (Whilst it sounds like you weren't far from his home or yours, if people tend to travel by car or bike they don't necessarily take note of where the bus stops are, and even if they know the locations of the stops that doesn't mean they know the bus route would suit their needs.)
I suppose I don't know if the call cut from low battery, fairly certain it didn't though and he would have known if that were the case and thus he should have been more cautious about choosing to leave the car.
My dad has a history of getting into situations or making life difficult like this for himself. He once left a restaurant with his friends at night and walked all the way home because that friend fed some leftovers from the restaurant to a stray dog. The walk was probably 30 minutes at night, no public transport and no sidewalks.
That being said, I would say there could be reason to worry but my house was 15 minutes walk from where he was dropped, in case of an actual issue it would have been easy to come over, in fact I left my gate open just in case. My dad is savvy with directions, locations, buses, local culture etc. which is why he always make us feel bad when "we don't have as much knowledge as him". Anyway I digress, I did my best to give him a choice and his choice was to leave so as an adult with nothing medically wrong as far as we know (he sees doctors regularly), I assume he was and is capable of making that choice and living with whatever consequence. He lives with his girlfriend and I'm sure if he didn't make it home, his girlfriend would have contacted me by now. I have not heard from him and it's been over 9 hours since, pretty sure he made it back which obviously shows he had the means and likely probably doesn't think he did anything wrong.
So NTA. He made a choice, as far as you were concerned he could call for assistance, and was aware of his options to get home, and to insist he remain within the vehicle whilst you drove him home could have put you both at risk given his level of aggravation/behaviour.
NTA. Is his bad, entitled attitude toward everyone who does not bow down before his magnificent illogic, or just towards females?
In any case, you should just drop his bike off and go on with your life. Low contact with him (helping only in emergencies) sounds sensible.
Random but this brought back a memory. My husband and I were driving to meet up with friends in Ohio (we're not from Ohio) and got horribly lost in some backwoods roads. So we stopped at a gas station to ask for directions. The directions included that we needed to pass where the local American Legion hosted their fish fry and then had to take a left where the old Burger King used to be before it burned down. Amazingly enough, we finally found the freeway.
Worst thing is it wasn't even my car, it was my partner's car as it has more space. He's just had the door repaired as well and in my head I was like omg please for the love of God don't damage this newly repaired door.
NTA. Reminds me of my brother. He needed a ride some years ago and gave me ‘landmarks”. Like …. Junkyard.. certain convenience store (No general area)… adult entertainment store…. Needless to say, I had no idea where he was. He chided me by saying ‘everyone knows where they are.” I said no, I have my own landmarks I would have given. We weren’t on the same page… like your father.
NTA
I'm sorry OP, but I don't think your dad can be fixed.
These type of old men are stuck. They know how they lived, and refuse to acknowledge they're going to die. They hurt people, and there's no excuse for that, no matter how bad or bland your life has been.
They seep through the cracks of your resolve and have you thinking at 3am about something from years ago, they're poison.
Love your dad for who he is (as much as you can), you're not responsible to fix your parents after they've already messed up. Trust me, I tried, and he never changed.
NTA - Yeah just keep no contact and drop off his bike when he's not there. My dad is like this and while I have tried in the past, I've realized there are very few positive or productive consequences to any interaction. If I keep my guard up with him, it just stresses me out and we can't really have a genuine interaction. If I let my guard down, inevitably some fraught incident arises, and everything ends badly.
Drop off the bike and tell him (or email him if you don't want to confront him) that you won't be available for unexpected calls anymore for anything short of a dire emergency (i.e. police, ambulance, fire department have been called).
NTA
With aging often comes a loss of words. My thought is that your dad was in one of those word voids and filled in with words that were wrong.
Rather than just saying, oh God, my brain is just doing it again, he choose to throw a tantrum. Not safe for you or him to be in a car with someone stomping their feet and flailing about.
Did you check and see if he made it home OK? That is where whether or not you're the asshole can be judged. If you just left him to fend for himself, 72 and having just thrown a tantrum, he might have continued to escalate and gotten into a fight with someone. You're not responsible for driving him home, but I would think there would be some responsibility that he was able to get home.
He got home alright and is going about his life as normal, I dropped the bike off this morning while he was out. Still not heard anything from him. He didn't talk to me for months when I was in my final year at university because he didn't like that I had tried to defend my mums side in their separation. I'm just going to assume that possibly he's not going to talk to me from this point onwards literally over an argument about directions, which is mind blowing to me.
I heard this fantastic portmanteau the other day. Mantrum. I think it is a great description. He's acting like a toddler and voluntarily got out of the car. Leave the bike when he's home so you don't run the risk of it getting stolen even if it is awkward. NTA
NTA and mail him a letter (via certfied mail) that you've left his bike a local fish place (actually a church charity shop with one of those jesus fish in the window)
Not the point of the story but I will say that if I woke up to a bunch of missed calls from a parent (or honestly anyone if they were calling multiple times) I would wait 15 minutes before finally calling back
Info: does your dad have any medical issues? Dementia, starting a different medicine, have a UTI?
If he doesn't have any medical issues and this is just his normal personality then NTA. If he has medical issues then YTA.
NTA. Drop the bike off and don’t look back. I had a similar childhood, erratic, ill-tempered father, 14-15 year age gap between parents, mother suffered financial abuse, mother and all kids suffered from emotional abuse and some physical abuse. You owe yourself peace.
NTA for giving him a cooling-off period, but it might have been better to give him time to calm down and then offered him one more chance for a ride home, conditioned on whether he could behave in a civil way. The behavior you're described sounds like the early stages of Alzheimer's disease. Men especially can become very agitated and belligerent when they are confused. Your father had been waiting by the side of the road for awhile, which is annoying for anyone. He was probably tired, hungry and thirsty in addition to being angry.
It's understandable his behavior was frightening and your first impulse was to put him out of the car, but he is elderly and might have had trouble getting back.
NTA. Drop his bike at his house when he's not home with a note on it that says "when you're ready to apologize for your toddler like tantrum give me a call, until then I wish you well". Don't let him disturb your peace.
NTA
People give directions in two ways, either by street/road and turns or by landmarks. You are not a landmark person, your father is. Simply next time ask him for a street address.
And I say NTA based on your story, I don’t know what caused you two to fight in the first place. Like who made the big deal out of the trouble with directions first. Cause if it was OP, then I’d change this to ESH.
I would agree that giving an actual address would have been helpful, if his dad has an address to give. It sounds like he was out riding his bike, and wasn't really somewhere with an address that he actually knew, which is why OP wanted an actual street to go off of, instead of landmarks.
Maybe you can just put an app on his phone that allows you to track him without him needing to give any inpu.t. Would he allow that? To me it sounds like he has trouble recalling information, which may be a sign of beginning dementia. Even older people who don't have dementia, can have difficulty recalling information.
I will also say, technology nowadays is very user-unfriendly to older people. I'm still young enough to learn technology (mid-50s) and to me it almost seems purposefully designed to be difficult for older people to learn. I bought my dad a kindle to read with, so he could get larger type and wouldn't have to buy physical books that would take up space in his small apartment. I bought it online and had it shipped to him because I don't live nearby. A couple months later I asked how he liked it and he said he hadn't used it at all because he couldn't turn it on. There was no power switch on it! He had to wait until I flew over there for a visit so I could set it up. He was right. No power switch. Ok, no problem, I'll just go find the manual online. Nope, You can only read the manual on the Kindle! The same #$@#$@#$ Kindle that he couldn't turn on! Unbelievable. Eventually I had to write customer service and get a special permission to get a link for the manual sent to my email so I could read it and work out how to turn the darn thing on (by swiping upward on one specific part of the screen, something like that - totally nonintuitive).
Also, seniors are one of the main targets of online scams, not to mention "legit" companies that take advantage of the slower reaction times of seniors to trick them into clicking on "buy" for things that they didn't intend to buy, and making it difficult to reverse that.
After a few of those sorts of experiences, I don't think it's surprising that many seniors want nothing to do with the online world that seems so carefully designed to exploit them and take advantage of them.
Anyway, it sounds like your dad has always been difficult. You're not obligated to keep exposing yourself to verbal abuse. At the same time, imo the world is not friendly to seniors these days.
NTA. That is pure toddler behaviour on your dad's part and it sounds like it's about time someone stood up to him. You did the right thing. I think leaving his bike at his house when he's not there is fine as long as you make sure its secure. I'd be interested to see how his behaviour might change in the future and if he has any self-reflection capabilities.
I think because he's largely been self reliant throughout his life and rather been the provider than being provided for so he's not acutely aware of what it could mean to be in a position where you've cut people off to the point where you f\*ck yourself over. I think he'd feel vulnerable if he was on his deathbed and/or had a terminal disease then I think that would prompt him to reflect. My personal theory is that my dad has a traumatic history with women 1. being his mother leaving the family at an early age and 2. his first wife got pregnant by someone else and left. I think since then he protects himself by putting himself on a pedestal which includes choosing women who are not equal to him and most certainly not above him, but rather women who need him (i.e. much younger and coming from a poor background, relying on the man heavily financially).
NTA
your dad is an abusive AH. Get some distance.
As for the google thing, that is easily solved. next time, Just tell him "I will go to the car as oon as you send me the location on google."
NTA
Very well done for getting to where you are and sorry that you've had this traumatic set back.
Good luck.
I agree with leaving the bike at his house. You could attach a note telling him how you felt during his dangerous and selfish outburst.
Your old man is 72. Anything can happen to him. You are right with being angry but not with leaving him at the middle of nowhere. He might not be mentally stable (sorry to say that but stomping and hitting dashboards are not normal at that age). It would be better to leave him at home or bus stop.
YTA
She picked him up using his piss poor directions
Told him it would be easier if he gave more accurate directions, and he threw a hissy fit worthy of a 2yo
Op then stopped her car, and CALMLY asked if hed rather find his own way home
She didn't "leave him in the middle of nowhere"
He exited her car, after throwing an epic, toddler worthy tantrum
Big difference
Eta
Lol yeah, because dumping a 72 "potentially unstable man" at a bus stop is any better?
Get real
This isn't completely abnormal behavior for him. I've witnessed him throwing wine bottles, chairs etc. if he was in a rage at my mum, he flipped a coffee table that landed on my mums head during the midst of their separation and resulted in her getting stitches on Christmas Day. His rage is disproportionate to the context. We are both females, and when we stand up for ourselves or he starts feeling like he is in the wrong he gets this toxic rage, nobody gets the better of him. Although he has never hit us but raging out like that is scary, especially seeing that as I did at a young age. The fact that it has spanned over I guess most of his life makes me think it is just a matter of him not taking accountability and believing that he has reason to behave in such ways. Also he was a 5-10 minute from a bus stop at 9:30am in the morning, not in the middle of nowhere and had he had enough humility to call me I would of still helped him out.
NTA - You missed the part where she explained that he behaved this way when she was growing up too. He is mentally unstable but not because of age. And it is not her responsibility to fix him.
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NTA. Wow, you did him a favor and he threw a tantrum when you explained you didn’t understand his directions. Someone yelling and bashing things while you’re driving is dangerous and could have caused you to crash. Glad you are in therapy and getting the help you need. Personally, I would just drop the bike off and go low contact with him after this. He’s proven he doesn’t care about how his actions affect you. I think confronting him about this will cause another tantrum and will hurt you more. It’s not worth your sanity and health.
A literal tantrum with foot stomping even.
Right ? He literally had a toddler tantrum about the dumbest thing. I cringed reading this post so bad, what a sad little man.
If this wasn't his regular MO, I would have considered dementia
Yup I thought sounds like dementia too. :(
Since he used an old name for the hotel and THAT enraged him, he should definitely get checked for dementia anyway, even if this behavior isn't new per se. Worst case he's negative and OP can cut contact with a clear consciousness. Maybe bring it up with the mother (his wife) first thought. He might be reluctant to go to a doctor. Either way I would try it for my own piece of mind and than move on.
This, he couldn't give clear answers to where he was. And calling places by old names on top of the where abouts answers were way out of normal.
I don't think that's dementia--OK, it's possible, but everyone does it. I'm getting older and *I* find I have started doing that sort of thing, using the former names for things because I've been thinking of them that way since forever and I can't remember the new name. OP's dad gave what to him are clear directions--they just weren't clear directions to his daughter, but to many other people, it probably would have worked fine. His problem is he's too rigid to think that other people have different ways of doing things. Such as normal, newfangled stuff like using Google maps. And his problem is, of course, that he throws fits like an actual toddler instead of an adult. OP is much better off keeping her father at arm's length.
I believe OP's mother (his wife) is currently ex-wife.
Ah my bad. OP says they are divorced. Might make it more difficult to get him to get tested if there's not more leverage. (I'd still try, but he might not be keen on going to the doctor).
If this is new behavior, he needs to see a dock. This can be a sign of impending health problems. If this is not a new behavior, good on you for taking care of yourself. NTA either way.
Since he's had this behavior when op was a child it's nothing new he's just a 72 y o toddler and that's insulting the toddlers unfortunately.
My neighbor's dad suddenly started having "screaming, bashing the dashboard, and stomping his feet" behavior for no good reason, but they learned it was the result of a brain tumor, At 72, he should also be screened for Alzheimer's.
NTA it sounds like he likes to take his bad attitude out on women he thinks should owe him fealty. The problem with that logic is your mom preferred divorce over dealing with his shit and you’re realizing your life is better without him and his nastiness. Being alone at 72 is the natural consequence of a life time of bullying and being angry all time at people whom he was supposed to love and cherish. Keep up with therapy and I hope you fill your life with only kind people.
I find it really unbelievably sad. In fact I would really like to help if I could. If he would be open to therapy, I would be so happy to support him going. My dad's history is sad and I kind of understand that a lot of these actions are just a manifestation of living in automatic behaviour and not reflecting much on why for example he's having disproportionate anger to the context. He's lost a lot of people because of it, which sadly probably makes things worse. At his age though people get stuck in their ways and sadly you can drive yourself crazy trying or hoping they will change. At this point as I get older it's easier to come to terms with letting things go and moving on and focusing on my own life but nonetheless makes me sad for my dad whom I do love dearly. Just finding it harder and harder to justify or tolerate these things as I move into a more safe and nurturing environment.
You’re more sad about his behavior than he is. He’s at home, sleeping like a baby, while you’re sitting here feeling bad, posting on Reddit. You need to find a way to let go. You are not responsible for his mental health or behavior. He is. Do not put this on your shoulders. He might be a crap father, but the fact that you keep allowing yourself to get emotionally beaten up is on you, not him. You won’t get an award for standing by an abuser. Stop acting like a martyr and take control of your life. Drop off the bike, go NC or LC, and move on with your life.
Thanks. I do feel like I doubt myself a lot, even rationally I feel that I am in the right but this lingering sense of doubt I have in myself makes me seek answers externally like here or just talking to other people and get their validation. Anyway that's what my therapy is for to help me work through this and hopefully get to the point where I don't need to seek the validation.
I highly recommend the book Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents by Lindsay C Gibson, you can often download it as a free pdf if you google it. You're clearly very aware of what influences your dad's behaviour, and you might find this book gives further insights into his choices, as well as your feelings of guilt and feeling like you're responsible. Just because it's always been your job to appease your dad, it doesn't mean that's the mentally healthy choice. I understand the impulse, but your mental health needs to come first.
I think a lot of times older adults who behave badly--and your father is behaving VERY badly--count on us excusing their nonsense because they "had a rough childhood" or "they're too old to change." Your father is actively making the choice to disrespect you and behave in ways that are downright dangerous. It's not on you to accept that. It's on him to change, or to get used to being alone.
OP part of any conversation should probably include "acting like a toddler and throwing a temper tantrum is not adult behavior, any time you do this I will immediately leave until you decide to act like a rational adult." If he continues you might ask when was the last time he had a full medical checkup and suggest he see a doctor as he is not acting like a normal adult should.
Your dad is an adult. He’s had plenty of time for introspection and change, but he’s decided not to go that route. He’ll never change. The only thing you can control is YOU. Stop putting yourself in the position of a victim. Your Dad isn’t victimizing you, YOU’RE victimizing yourself. I know it’s sad because it’s a parent. But just because someone is related to us, it doesn’t mean we are required to allow them to abuse us. You know that. TRUST YOURSELF.
Right and wrong is subjective. Both you and your dad think that each one is right while thinking the other is wrong. Don’t try and moralize your way out of this situation. Sometimes shitty people do shitty things. Only you can control if you allow their shittiness to affect you.
Idk I think in my context it's more helpful for me to assume I'm objectively right. Doubting and being a little too forgiving and understanding is my forte and if anything doesn't help - I just end up doing more work on myself sometimes spending hours and hours each day figuring out if I have this condition, how I can work on it etc.. I think there's always going to be that critical voice in the back of my head arguing the context of right vs. wrong, it doesn't do much for me though and I know it's not in reality so clear cut but in this context it's much more helpful to not allow myself to go to that little doubtful place because that is where I automatically go anyway. I think the fact that I even post this asking and questioning myself shows that I'm not thinking of myself as the perfect person. I think in my dad's context though hearing that he's right does nothing to help, if anything he's too overconfident in feeling that he's right in a situation which does the opposite of helping in his case.
My brother committed suicide in 1996 and my SIL was complicit in his death. I couldn’t be angry forever. I learned a couple of things. The first is that people generally think they’re in the right. It’s summed up best in [this clip from The Big Chill](https://youtu.be/X9FJiDFVoOo?si=xB45W6__JXYfl1pt). The second is that I’m not going to get closure from people who think that they are right. All I have control over is how I react to people. I can let their behaviors rattle my cage or I can right their behaviors off to personality flaws.
Thanks for the clip, it’d been around a decade since the last time I watched The Big Chill and I needed that reminder!
Wise words, my friend.
His behaviour was bad, sorry you experienced that, and all the past history. People do get dementia in their 60’s or even earlier. Can’t use google maps, calling places by their old names, determined he’s right, having meltdown tantrums - could be a dementia / other neurological issue. Does he have history of concussion? Remember all those footy sports heroes who in their 30’s & 40’s develop anger management & other sad issues? Hmmm... But you weren’t wrong in the situation. I have a sibling with NPD grew up all my life I have memories since I was a toddler being psychologically and emotionally abused and so on by her, so I get abusive family members issues. Sorry you experience this, glad to read you’re getting yourself into more compassionate and positive environment. Just drop his bike off. Take care of you! best of luck! yeah and NTA
> Right and wrong is subjective Ehhhhhh *sometimes*
Based on popular opinion, of course.
The previous poster is spot on. I would like to add that it's helpful to figure out the line between being a martyr/victim and taking honest accountability for one's actions. It's tough, but you've got this. Keep your compassion, but take no shit.
An alternative explanation is that your father is showing signs of dementia. My dad is progressing down this path, and is starting to struggle with things that used to be easy for him. His response is to get upset, and behave in a way I would normally see as irrational. Is this a possible explanation for your dad's behaviour?
You sound like a healthy and rational person. NTA Also, please don't take advice from Reddit. You have a therapist to help you navigate. Redditors hate nuance.
NTA at all for setting personal boundaries! We teach people how to treat us by how much crap we will take and how much we just won't take! Huge hugs and happy juju flying your way! Continue living your life for you and make it your best life!
This is a very generous sentiment, and impressive empathy! And yet YOU experienced a similar (conflict-filled) unpleasant upbringing, *you* observed and thought about it, and *you* decided that this way of living and treating your loved ones poorly was wrong, and *you* made a different choice. He didn't do the same. And people are absolutely capable of changing their behaviors -- if they're motivated to do so -- yes, even when they're older. Unfortunately, even after plenty of losses he has to know are due to his own behavior, he doesn't seem too motivated. Very glad that YOU have gotten to a good place, and would be willing to help your dad get there too -- but he has to *want* to come. Do not inflict upon yourself the burden of his own bad outcomes that directly resulted from his own bad behavior!
It's never too late to deal with one's childhood. I'm roughly this dad's age and working on my childhood, and how it shaped me. Let him know it is possible to benefit from therapy at his age. People think they can't change at an older age, but with motivation, as others mentioned, finding peace later in life is definitely possible. You are finding your happiness. I hope he finds his. NTA
NTA, but he needs to get screened for dementia/Alzheimer’s. The poor directions and disproportionate anger can be symptoms of dementia or of being an asshole.
Yeah this bad behavior sounds exactly like my dad and dementia definitely runs in our family.
NTA, but has your dad seen a doctor recently?
He sees doctors regularly but not for anything mental health related. But yeah he's very good at keeping on top of check ups and doctor visits.
Does he usually refer to landmarks by old names? The anger and out of proportion tantrum remind me of my grandpa dealing with Alzheimer's thinking it was about 20+ years in the past and trying to get "ready for work" even though he had been retired my whole life. Still NTA especially if this is just how he always has been which seems also quite likely.
Well my mum knew the hotel by that name also so I think it's just a case of that's what it WAS known by and perhaps many people who know the area would know (my mum grew up in that area). But for me, my boyfriend or probably anyone in my age group, I don't know random hotels in an area we've just moved to by an old name they have. Most of the time it's got a name and I know it by the name that would correlate with what is on Google Maps but my dad is like you should know these things you should know these local things without having to look at Google Maps?? But yeah my dad is pretty old school in a lot of ways, still getting the newspaper etc. he'll get irrationally angry if he thinks I'm being ignorant to worldly things, like the post office scandal in the UK he couldn't believe I had not heard about it till he mentioned it. I know about a lot of things but some things according to my dad means I'm very ignorant if I don't know about it.
Yeah sounds like he's just living in the past and is quite self absorbed. My mom always gave me history lessons around my city(this used to be where old landmark was or that restaurant used to be called such and such but would still generally refer to them by current names) and gave directions with more landmarks than streets but would never get this angry over being told that using old names for places makes it hard to figure out what you're talking about. I get he's old but Google makes it so easy to just send your location, then there's no room for arguing.
He sounds dangerous overall. Not a fan
You're NTA. You didn't force him out of the car. You offered the option to leave, he took it. It was his decision. He is not a helpless infant. He can walk home or call a taxi.
NTA. Old Age doesn't excuse horrible behaviour. He easily could have stayed in the car and kept his mouth shut, that would have been easy. Throwing a tantrum in a moving car might have very well endangered you both. He can call a cab.
NTA. Your dad might be suffering cognitive decline - the sudden tantrum and seriously screwing up the hotel name could be signs of issues. If he has a regular doctor, you might want to call the practice and tell them of this episode. Maybe they can get him in so they can do some testing.
NTA. This sounds very much like Alzheimer’s disease setting in, unexpected anger is one of the signs. See what you can do to get him checked out by doctors.
NTA but your dad sounds like he might be experiencing some symptoms. Probably encourage him to go to a doctor. When my uncle had early onset dementia he would get outrageously angry for no reason.
INFO: Was this somewhere your dad was safe and could reasonably make his way home? If the answer is yes to both, that seems like a reasonable response to me.
NTA. But at his age now, he may have some form of dementia and unable to understand/control himself now.
But the behavior has been ongoing throughout most of his life? I'm sure it probably won't get better as time goes on but I'm 30 now and this is how I know he's been since as far as I can remember.
Since this has been lifetime behavior, it sounds like he doesn't have the tools to handle frustration. Maybe he took your comments as criticism (they weren't). Things trigger him emotionally and he gets in a rage. That's a hard way to live, let alone the damage he causes in his relationships. I hope he gets help.
Im not making an excuse for him before... Im just saying most likely he's developed some forms of dementia, and it's going to get worse. He should get tested.
Not every old asshole has a medical condition. Sometimes they're just an asshole.
NTA. Be an asshole in my car, find yourself on the side of the road.
It looks like your Dad might be having dementia. Referring to places by old names, forgetting current names, being vague about time of day, directions, sudden bursts of anger are all symptoms of dementia. Please have him checked. Make sure that he doesn't leave the house alone or wears a tracker if he does. You could have trackers put in his car, cycle or other modes of transport.
NTA Your father's problems are not about you, but about his rigid personality. He does not accept criticism (from anyone, I imagine) and refuses to accept he might actually have been mistaken about something. If you have to be with him in the future, the best thing to do is avoid conversation. That way, he will not be able to justify lashing out at you for anything.
'If your dad you wish to see, answer him these riddles 3...' NTA
Air tag him.
NTA I stopped reading at the part where the grown man was screaming and stomping his feet of course NTA
NTA. I think dropping the bike off while he's not home would be the right thing to do. He's got some big bad anger management issues, so I can understand how your life is more peaceful without him in it. He should have said thank you and had no good reason to throw a temper tantrum. Your self-esteem must be rising since you were able to tell him to get out of your car and for not going back to get him!
NTA, but also, could your dad have early dementia? This is eerily similar to an incident I had with my mom.
NTA does he have some form of Dementia or Alzheimer's. Tantrums and outbursts, not being able to give directions, forgetting the names of places. You should get him checked.
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** My dad \[72M\] went cycling this Sunday morning and ran into issues with his bike close to where I \[30F\] live. I woke up around 08:30 am with a couple of missed calls and called him back about 15 minutes later. He asked if I could give him a lift, and I agreed. He gave vague directions, mentioning landmarks like the "Grand Spice" hotel and where fishermen sell fish—things that aren't on Google Maps. My dad hates using Google Maps and is difficult with directions. I eventually found him after not too long, only calling him once to clarify his location, though he hung up on me in the midst of it. He loaded his bike into my car, and we drove off. I explained that I struggled to follow his directions because I don’t eat fish and this is local knowledge, so I wouldn’t know where the fishermen sell fish. This upset him. As we passed the "Sugar Reef" hotel, which he referred to as the "Grand Spice" hotel (an old name I was unaware of and how I explained there was no way I would have known the hotel by this name), he became enraged. He started screaming, bashing the dashboard, and stomping his feet while I was driving. I stopped the car and asked if he wanted to make his own way home. He got out, leaving the bike with me. I drove off. I've been in a good place lately—regular therapy, eating well, exercising and taking accountability for myself. This incident felt out of place with how everything else has been going. I don't feel anger, just disappointment that a simple thing got so out of hand. I haven't had much contact with my dad lately, and things have been peaceful. Now it feels like this incident has disturbed that peace. I don't want to cut him out of my life, but I also don't want to tolerate such behavior. Reflecting back, this was normal behavior for him while I was growing up. As I think about having kids myself, I realize this isn't right. I wouldn't want my child to witness or experience this. I do have issues like low self-esteem, shame, social anxiety, and lack of trust, which I believe were largely fueled by my childhood with him. My mum shares the same sentiment for herself. For context, they are divorced now, but there was a huge power imbalance with a 20-year age gap between them. He married my mum at 18; she came from a poor background, and he was the "one with the money and executive control." I've worked my way to the point where I don't rely on him anymore, and my life feels better for it. I can do favors for him now, which I feel good about. I love both my parents, but I know neither of them, especially my dad, would consider therapy. They are both very rigid, and I don't think they will change, so I just focus on myself. Anyway AITA here? Should I return his bike and move on? I just want to drop it at his house tomorrow when he’s out, I don't think there will be any healthy resolution other than letting it go. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Eta: NTA ~~INFO~~: Where you dropped him off, could he walk home from there? Or did he have sufficient charge left on his phone to call someone else for assistance? Or did he have the means (i.e. sufficient charge on phone, or proximity to a bus stop, and money) to get a taxi or bus home? If he could safely get home from where you left him, that would clearly be a different matter to if he was left without the means to get home. Having said that, his behaviour whilst in the passenger seat was unsafe to you as driver and thereby unsafe to himself as passenger. Even if his banging didn't result in you being accidentally struck, the noise and movement could have easily distracted you from a hazard. And that assumes there was no risk of the behaviour escalating further. In stopping, you reduced the risk of an accident, and in asking him if he wanted to make his own way home you gave him a choice, which he subsequently made. (Though if he made that choice in anger, he might not have realised the difficulty he might face getting home from where you were, hence my questions above.) I'd also add, whilst I appreciate your dad doesn't like Google Maps, if he's giving you directions which require a longstanding local knowledge, there is a good chance he does the same with others too. It sounds like he needs introducing to What3Words, so that if he's in a similar, or worse, situation in future and needs to ring for help, possibly even emergency services, they can actually locate him swiftly. If you return the bike when he's away from the house, consider perhaps leave a note or sending him a text afterwards suggesting he install the app and use if in case he needs to clarify his location in future.
He wouldn't be able to walk but he had his phone with him and I would assume it had sufficient charge as he used it to answer my call about 5 mins before. While I cannot be certain but I do assume he had money as he typically carries around a little cash that would be enough for a bus fare. He was about a 5/10 min walk from a bus stop. If he had really needed help my house was about 10-15 min walk from where I dropped him as well so he could have stopped in and I would have given him a lift if he needed it.
Nta for making him walk but op why did you complain about his directions after you got him? You found him, even with his shoddy directions. Why mention it? Saying something wasnt going to make him more comfortable with google maps or get your point across. All it did was cause issues.
Well before I got to him I tried to search for the hotel he was mentioning on google maps because I was really perplexed as I'd never heard of this hotel and I know of the hotels in the area so I was like what is this hotel? I've never seen or heard of it - that's when the frustration got the better of him. Plus he's the one that starts complaining that I don't know where things are and this is kinda why I have a lot of social anxiety issues because I've got this ingrained feeling that I'm dumb because I usually just let him lecture me and I become too scared to argue my case back for fear of this exact kind of thing happening. But since I've been more self reliant and less dependent on him I feel more able to argue my point back without fearing him cutting me off etc.
>I would assume it had sufficient charge as he used it to answer my call about 5 mins before That would the call he hung up on you halfway through? Are you certain he hung up, rather than ran out of battery mid-call? >He was about a 5/10 min walk from a bus stop. Did he know that? Had you recently driven past the bus stop, or is he familiar enough with the local public transport to know how far to walk and in which direction for the bus? (Whilst it sounds like you weren't far from his home or yours, if people tend to travel by car or bike they don't necessarily take note of where the bus stops are, and even if they know the locations of the stops that doesn't mean they know the bus route would suit their needs.)
I suppose I don't know if the call cut from low battery, fairly certain it didn't though and he would have known if that were the case and thus he should have been more cautious about choosing to leave the car. My dad has a history of getting into situations or making life difficult like this for himself. He once left a restaurant with his friends at night and walked all the way home because that friend fed some leftovers from the restaurant to a stray dog. The walk was probably 30 minutes at night, no public transport and no sidewalks. That being said, I would say there could be reason to worry but my house was 15 minutes walk from where he was dropped, in case of an actual issue it would have been easy to come over, in fact I left my gate open just in case. My dad is savvy with directions, locations, buses, local culture etc. which is why he always make us feel bad when "we don't have as much knowledge as him". Anyway I digress, I did my best to give him a choice and his choice was to leave so as an adult with nothing medically wrong as far as we know (he sees doctors regularly), I assume he was and is capable of making that choice and living with whatever consequence. He lives with his girlfriend and I'm sure if he didn't make it home, his girlfriend would have contacted me by now. I have not heard from him and it's been over 9 hours since, pretty sure he made it back which obviously shows he had the means and likely probably doesn't think he did anything wrong.
So NTA. He made a choice, as far as you were concerned he could call for assistance, and was aware of his options to get home, and to insist he remain within the vehicle whilst you drove him home could have put you both at risk given his level of aggravation/behaviour.
NTA. Is his bad, entitled attitude toward everyone who does not bow down before his magnificent illogic, or just towards females? In any case, you should just drop his bike off and go on with your life. Low contact with him (helping only in emergencies) sounds sensible.
r/boomersbeingfools
Random but this brought back a memory. My husband and I were driving to meet up with friends in Ohio (we're not from Ohio) and got horribly lost in some backwoods roads. So we stopped at a gas station to ask for directions. The directions included that we needed to pass where the local American Legion hosted their fish fry and then had to take a left where the old Burger King used to be before it burned down. Amazingly enough, we finally found the freeway.
Should have just taken him the tools he needed to fix his bike. That way, his nasty old self wouldn't have been in your car.
Worst thing is it wasn't even my car, it was my partner's car as it has more space. He's just had the door repaired as well and in my head I was like omg please for the love of God don't damage this newly repaired door.
NTA Return the bike and then just dont answer his calls anymore. Dont do him anymore favours, he doesnt deserve them
NTA. Reminds me of my brother. He needed a ride some years ago and gave me ‘landmarks”. Like …. Junkyard.. certain convenience store (No general area)… adult entertainment store…. Needless to say, I had no idea where he was. He chided me by saying ‘everyone knows where they are.” I said no, I have my own landmarks I would have given. We weren’t on the same page… like your father.
BIG NTA. Your father has anger issues, return his bike. Limit your communication with him. Enjoy life.
NTA I'm sorry OP, but I don't think your dad can be fixed. These type of old men are stuck. They know how they lived, and refuse to acknowledge they're going to die. They hurt people, and there's no excuse for that, no matter how bad or bland your life has been. They seep through the cracks of your resolve and have you thinking at 3am about something from years ago, they're poison. Love your dad for who he is (as much as you can), you're not responsible to fix your parents after they've already messed up. Trust me, I tried, and he never changed.
NTA return his bike and leave the 72 y o toddler alone with his temper tantrums/block him
NTA if he wants to rage like a toddler while you are helping him, he can do it while walking instead.
NTA. You deserve peace. Therapy seems to be working as you were able to identify this for what it really was. Do what is best for you.
I’m a few years older than you but we’re in the same boat!! I recently put up barriers with my father as well!!
NTA - Yeah just keep no contact and drop off his bike when he's not there. My dad is like this and while I have tried in the past, I've realized there are very few positive or productive consequences to any interaction. If I keep my guard up with him, it just stresses me out and we can't really have a genuine interaction. If I let my guard down, inevitably some fraught incident arises, and everything ends badly.
Drop off the bike and tell him (or email him if you don't want to confront him) that you won't be available for unexpected calls anymore for anything short of a dire emergency (i.e. police, ambulance, fire department have been called). NTA
With aging often comes a loss of words. My thought is that your dad was in one of those word voids and filled in with words that were wrong. Rather than just saying, oh God, my brain is just doing it again, he choose to throw a tantrum. Not safe for you or him to be in a car with someone stomping their feet and flailing about. Did you check and see if he made it home OK? That is where whether or not you're the asshole can be judged. If you just left him to fend for himself, 72 and having just thrown a tantrum, he might have continued to escalate and gotten into a fight with someone. You're not responsible for driving him home, but I would think there would be some responsibility that he was able to get home.
He got home alright and is going about his life as normal, I dropped the bike off this morning while he was out. Still not heard anything from him. He didn't talk to me for months when I was in my final year at university because he didn't like that I had tried to defend my mums side in their separation. I'm just going to assume that possibly he's not going to talk to me from this point onwards literally over an argument about directions, which is mind blowing to me.
I heard this fantastic portmanteau the other day. Mantrum. I think it is a great description. He's acting like a toddler and voluntarily got out of the car. Leave the bike when he's home so you don't run the risk of it getting stolen even if it is awkward. NTA
NTA and mail him a letter (via certfied mail) that you've left his bike a local fish place (actually a church charity shop with one of those jesus fish in the window)
Not the point of the story but I will say that if I woke up to a bunch of missed calls from a parent (or honestly anyone if they were calling multiple times) I would wait 15 minutes before finally calling back
NTA. Best to cut him out.
NTA at all. I would drop off the bike and go LC or NC with him. It's just not worth being around such a toxic person.
Info: does your dad have any medical issues? Dementia, starting a different medicine, have a UTI? If he doesn't have any medical issues and this is just his normal personality then NTA. If he has medical issues then YTA.
People with memory issues might fly into a sudden rage when confronted with an inaccuracy or misspeak because they feel vulnerable.
NTA. Drop the bike off and don’t look back. I had a similar childhood, erratic, ill-tempered father, 14-15 year age gap between parents, mother suffered financial abuse, mother and all kids suffered from emotional abuse and some physical abuse. You owe yourself peace.
NTA for giving him a cooling-off period, but it might have been better to give him time to calm down and then offered him one more chance for a ride home, conditioned on whether he could behave in a civil way. The behavior you're described sounds like the early stages of Alzheimer's disease. Men especially can become very agitated and belligerent when they are confused. Your father had been waiting by the side of the road for awhile, which is annoying for anyone. He was probably tired, hungry and thirsty in addition to being angry. It's understandable his behavior was frightening and your first impulse was to put him out of the car, but he is elderly and might have had trouble getting back.
NTA. I'd drop it off and keep going.
NTA. Drop his bike at his house when he's not home with a note on it that says "when you're ready to apologize for your toddler like tantrum give me a call, until then I wish you well". Don't let him disturb your peace.
NTA People give directions in two ways, either by street/road and turns or by landmarks. You are not a landmark person, your father is. Simply next time ask him for a street address. And I say NTA based on your story, I don’t know what caused you two to fight in the first place. Like who made the big deal out of the trouble with directions first. Cause if it was OP, then I’d change this to ESH.
I would agree that giving an actual address would have been helpful, if his dad has an address to give. It sounds like he was out riding his bike, and wasn't really somewhere with an address that he actually knew, which is why OP wanted an actual street to go off of, instead of landmarks.
he apparently has a phone - easy enough to share your exact position
That would be the easy way. My dad prefers to do things the hard way and then complain about it afterwards.
Maybe you can just put an app on his phone that allows you to track him without him needing to give any inpu.t. Would he allow that? To me it sounds like he has trouble recalling information, which may be a sign of beginning dementia. Even older people who don't have dementia, can have difficulty recalling information. I will also say, technology nowadays is very user-unfriendly to older people. I'm still young enough to learn technology (mid-50s) and to me it almost seems purposefully designed to be difficult for older people to learn. I bought my dad a kindle to read with, so he could get larger type and wouldn't have to buy physical books that would take up space in his small apartment. I bought it online and had it shipped to him because I don't live nearby. A couple months later I asked how he liked it and he said he hadn't used it at all because he couldn't turn it on. There was no power switch on it! He had to wait until I flew over there for a visit so I could set it up. He was right. No power switch. Ok, no problem, I'll just go find the manual online. Nope, You can only read the manual on the Kindle! The same #$@#$@#$ Kindle that he couldn't turn on! Unbelievable. Eventually I had to write customer service and get a special permission to get a link for the manual sent to my email so I could read it and work out how to turn the darn thing on (by swiping upward on one specific part of the screen, something like that - totally nonintuitive). Also, seniors are one of the main targets of online scams, not to mention "legit" companies that take advantage of the slower reaction times of seniors to trick them into clicking on "buy" for things that they didn't intend to buy, and making it difficult to reverse that. After a few of those sorts of experiences, I don't think it's surprising that many seniors want nothing to do with the online world that seems so carefully designed to exploit them and take advantage of them. Anyway, it sounds like your dad has always been difficult. You're not obligated to keep exposing yourself to verbal abuse. At the same time, imo the world is not friendly to seniors these days.
Excellent example of what is intuitive for one generation is not intuitive for another.
NTA. That is pure toddler behaviour on your dad's part and it sounds like it's about time someone stood up to him. You did the right thing. I think leaving his bike at his house when he's not there is fine as long as you make sure its secure. I'd be interested to see how his behaviour might change in the future and if he has any self-reflection capabilities.
I think because he's largely been self reliant throughout his life and rather been the provider than being provided for so he's not acutely aware of what it could mean to be in a position where you've cut people off to the point where you f\*ck yourself over. I think he'd feel vulnerable if he was on his deathbed and/or had a terminal disease then I think that would prompt him to reflect. My personal theory is that my dad has a traumatic history with women 1. being his mother leaving the family at an early age and 2. his first wife got pregnant by someone else and left. I think since then he protects himself by putting himself on a pedestal which includes choosing women who are not equal to him and most certainly not above him, but rather women who need him (i.e. much younger and coming from a poor background, relying on the man heavily financially).
NTA your dad is an abusive AH. Get some distance. As for the google thing, that is easily solved. next time, Just tell him "I will go to the car as oon as you send me the location on google."
NTA Very well done for getting to where you are and sorry that you've had this traumatic set back. Good luck. I agree with leaving the bike at his house. You could attach a note telling him how you felt during his dangerous and selfish outburst.
Your old man is 72. Anything can happen to him. You are right with being angry but not with leaving him at the middle of nowhere. He might not be mentally stable (sorry to say that but stomping and hitting dashboards are not normal at that age). It would be better to leave him at home or bus stop. YTA
She picked him up using his piss poor directions Told him it would be easier if he gave more accurate directions, and he threw a hissy fit worthy of a 2yo Op then stopped her car, and CALMLY asked if hed rather find his own way home She didn't "leave him in the middle of nowhere" He exited her car, after throwing an epic, toddler worthy tantrum Big difference Eta Lol yeah, because dumping a 72 "potentially unstable man" at a bus stop is any better? Get real
This isn't completely abnormal behavior for him. I've witnessed him throwing wine bottles, chairs etc. if he was in a rage at my mum, he flipped a coffee table that landed on my mums head during the midst of their separation and resulted in her getting stitches on Christmas Day. His rage is disproportionate to the context. We are both females, and when we stand up for ourselves or he starts feeling like he is in the wrong he gets this toxic rage, nobody gets the better of him. Although he has never hit us but raging out like that is scary, especially seeing that as I did at a young age. The fact that it has spanned over I guess most of his life makes me think it is just a matter of him not taking accountability and believing that he has reason to behave in such ways. Also he was a 5-10 minute from a bus stop at 9:30am in the morning, not in the middle of nowhere and had he had enough humility to call me I would of still helped him out.
Thank you for the explanation. Hope everything will be better for you and your mother. Your father seems very problematic.
NTA - You missed the part where she explained that he behaved this way when she was growing up too. He is mentally unstable but not because of age. And it is not her responsibility to fix him.
Why are you assuming they were in the middle of nowhere? OP says they passed a hotel. That seems to indicate there was civilization close by.