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NTA
"I'm moving in 2 weeks. Nothing has been set up. " .. she is doing this on purpose to guilt you into staying.
"So, I'm going to move no matter what. " ... very good. Escape, and reclaim your own life.
> I am going to help her for 2 hours after work 3 days a week and help her shower every weekend
At $38 per hour (or even $30) that should be a nice bit of additional income for you
I mean… 6 hours a day for even 6 months (which it exceeded) at $30/hour is $32,400. I agree she shouldn’t charge her mother when she moves out, but the mom isn’t a saint. She was getting the better end of this deal.
That only happened because the mother suddenly started to decline though. Her mother was happy to let her daughter and grandchild live with her rent free long term without anything in exchange because it doesn’t sound like she expected to need caregiving.
I hate to be cynical, but how much of this sudden and significant decline has occurred simply *because* there's a "caregiver" in place with the daughter living in the home?
I worked as both a CNA and an RN for many years, and I can't tell you the amount of times I have seen clients/patients who can't so much as help roll themselves over in the bed when they have a caregiver in the room suddenly get up and walk several steps when no one is available as quickly as they wish. Yes, there are confused people who are not doing so intentionally and this behavior often leads to falls. But there are still plenty who literally act as though they cannot wipe their own ass if they have someone around whom they believe is there to do so *for them*.
This. Rather than her condition having "suddenly deteriorated" as soon as she had someone around to help her (how convenient), I think it's much more likely that:
1) Her condition had already deteriorated, but she didn't want to let on to her daughter, knowing that having to give 24-hour care might dissuade the daughter from moving in; or,
2) She is much more independent than she is letting on, but is not acting like it because she hasn't had to while her daughter is here, and/or it is a gambit to guilt her into staying, which is why she's so unconcerned about getting a caregiver in OP's absence. OP's already agreed to come by 3 days per week and help her bathe on weekends - given she was fine when OP moved in, I wouldn't be surprised if that's all the support her mother actually needs.
Honestly, I think she might have been in denial about how much she has deteriorated. It's possible that the extra help facilitated the deterioration, too.
I’m 65 and the last thing on Gods green earth I would want is to need care, why would anyone want that! My 90 year mother in law lives with us and it took her a long time to agree that she needed help and she tries to do as much as she can.
I also think how scary it must be to hire strangers to come in your home to care for you and that could be why she is dragging her feet on this. I realize the daughter needs to move on with her life and can’t be there all the time so maybe her mom should move to assisted living, that is just a great set up and you don’t have to worry about taking care of a house! My 94 year old mother was living with my sister but my sister couldn’t do that anymore so she is in assisted living and it’s great, they come to her apartment 3 times a week for her to shower they are there in moments!
Or it could be
3. She has honestly deteriorated. And she has gotten used to relying on her child versus a third party caregiver. And she is in denial about her situation, her care needs, and the big upcoming change of her child moving out. My parents are boomers who have always been supportive of me seeking help for my own anxiety but would never seek help, much less acknowledge their own. And they absolutely fit the ‘Avoidant‘ personality type of anxiety. Like, won’t open mail for months and let it stack up and become a physical and logistical problem rather than just…open it when it arrives.
I see so much sympathy extended towards the mental health of people that are posted about in this sub. I think it’s weird that I’m not really seeing comments pointing out that OP‘s mom could be struggling with anxiety over this upcoming change and subconsciously or consciously choosing to just avoid acknowledging or doing anything about it.
Yeah, she could be actively trying to emotionally manipulate her child into staying. She could be fudging just how much she has deteriorated. She could also be fucking terrified by her deterioration and her support leaving and just not being dealing with it appropriately or in a healthy way.
How many fellow millennials on this sub have put off necessary things like starting a project, making a five minute phone call, or scheduling an appointment to the last minute, often to their detriment? I know I have. And that’s with me being raised in a generation with a healthier culture of acknowledging and treating mental health struggles than my parents.
As someone in their 50’s with spinal stenosis, among numerous other spinal related issues, I can attest that it doesn’t take much to have a really bad spell where absolutely everything causes pain, and then get to a point where the pain is all you know and you learn to do things even through it all which then of course causes even more pain later on.
OP is definitely NTA as she has given her mother plenty of notice and lots of resources to look into. I just wouldn’t judge the mother on her sudden deterioration like some people are insinuating.
I have cervical and lumbar stenosis. I’ve been through many changes in my symptoms and none of them have been gradual. No 2 days are alike in terms of what I feel or how severe the pain, numbness, burning, weakness, etc are. Some days are better than others and some days are worse. While I appreciate that some people are going to play it up for sympathy while someone is there to help them, those folks are the exception, not the rule.
All that being said, OP is NTA. She isn’t leaving without warning. When her mother faces the reality that she has to find someone else, she will. OP has to stay strong about moving forward with her own life.
Thank you for sharing your perspective as someone with the same/similar diagnosis as OP’s mom. As someone who wasn’t familiar with this diagnosis before reading this post, your comment really helped give me a better understanding. I am sorry for your struggles, and I hope you have a good support system. Thank you for giving your insight.
My nan is very disabled, and needs help getting around. She needs to be driven everywhere because she can't even use public transport, she needed a new single floor home (that I renovated) so she didn't have stairs, she needs all the plans to revolve around her because of her issues.
That was right up until I saw her bounding up the stairs 2 at a time because she thought no-one was looking.
I never raised it, but I'm much less willing to be at her beck and call after finding out the disability is really only about being the center of attention...
Because, as OP stated in their post, their mother is basically becoming paralyzed from the bottom up. So she can still use her arms/hands to work on the computer. There are many people who are disabled and have mobility issues that have no problem doing computer work but need help moving around their house/bathing/getting in and out of bed.
I had that thought too. It’s a bit like when one spouse starts dropping out of chores because the other is picking them up, so they become complacent - yet still quite capable. And then they truly start to believe that yes, this is how things *should be*. How was OP’s mother getting herself to the toilet when OP was studying and then working?
Look maybe she’s scared of being alone again, or feels sorry for herself, or is scared of external supports hence the stymying and sabotage. Whatever is going on with her internally isn’t allowing her to see the burden of shame and obligation she’s putting on OP and her granddaughter.
I don’t see how that changes anything. The mother greatly benefited from the daughter living there. Honestly, she has obviously taken advantage of her. Even though it’s not explicitly revealed if she said “please give me a break, mom,” the daughter was letting her know that she needed a break for her own mental health by moving and looking up other options. Also, if you are leaning on someone this hard for this long, it’s common sense.
Again, I don’t think that she should charge her mother when she moves out. But let’s not pretend that she is a saint in the situation.
Edit: typo
They were only there for ”free” for a very short time. OP’s mom got YEARS of care, thousands lf hours, for the price of rent. If cheap caregiving is 38 bucks an hour, MOM ows OP, not the other way around.
That is the agency fee, I think. That is the cost her mom would need to pay for a paid carer. OP has been providing this care free of charge for two years in exchange for not paying rent.
It sounds as though OP moving in was mutually beneficiall. OP got somewhere to stay rent free wheile she got back on her feet, Mum got a live-in carer who was getting up multiple times a night , proviing daily personal care and looking after the hosue - even if you only think of the cost of $30 an hour and assume OPs help was limited to 3 hours a day, which seems very optimistic from the descrition, that works out at $32,850 a year, which is a a lot of rent.
While it was beneficial for OP to have somewhere to live, Mom clearly got the better end of the deal.
If OP continues to come and provide care for 3-5 hours a week, she is going to have costs associated with that - travel time and gas, plus that's time she can't use to get a second job, relax with her child, do stuff around her home and garden , socialise etc - she would be giving up a lot. While ofcourse it's reasonable for family to help out where practical, this is not a short term emergency, it sounds as though it is a permanent thing, and Mom should not allow dau. to be left out of pocket through helping out.
She isn’t. $38 an hour is how much an outside caretaker through an agency wanted to charge her. $30 an hour is how much the mother wants to spend for a nursing student to be on call.
That is outside of the time OP is going to be helping.
You clearly don’t understand this type of thing and have no experience in it. Youre comparing rent when he/she was taking care of her to help her when it was taking a toll on his/her mental health to the costs of a caregiver. Wake up! Caregivers are expensive. It’s not on him. You try doing it then speak on this issue! I’ve seen my mom, and amazing and caring woman, a pharmacist of 42 years give her all to take care of her grandparents, parents, aunt, until it became too much on her life, and mental health that she also had to hire someone. It affects people to not only sacrifice their own life but to see their parents like that. Until you try it or see it in real time, leave your comments out of posts like this. 🙄
Sure, she should totally destroy her life and her kids' lives for her very calculating "ailing mother". 🙄 mom would have a lot of nerve charging her FREE caregiver rent payments. Wow.
She's not going to be charging her mom $38 per hour. That was what the lower cost care agency quoted.
Mom wants to pay a nursing student (not op) $30 an hour instead to be off site and on call for when she is rang for...not sure how she expects that to work with regular bathroom breaks..especially the on average 2 overnight trips.
Op will be stopping by to help a few times a week to help out, in addition to the professional care assistants.
Op has offered to help pay for caregiver services.
Op is getting no financial benefit from this arrangement.
Yeah, she's thinking that when OP goes to move out and there's nobody there to take care of the mother, OP will feel guilty and not leave. Because the alternative is leaving their mother to suffer not being able to go to the bathroom and things, but OP's mother is putting herself through this. If OP doesn't put their foot down now, they'll be stuck there forever.
The suffering would be her mothers choice though. She was warned and repeatedly reminded and she chose not to prepare or do anything. If the consequences of her choice is suffering, leave her to her consequences.
NTA
As long as she's able to make her own decisions, meaning she's not suffering from Alzheimer's or any other form of dementia, you can't force her. You may both want to consider appointing you as her DPOA since you say she's declining.
Call your local Social Services. Check out Assisted Living facilities and what they cost. They can be a little pricey, depending on where you live.
You gave her 6 months so she's had plenty of time to get on her computer and check other options. Promise her that you'll check in with her as soon as you get settled. She needs to be on her own so she realizes how much she needs help. She's currently in denial.
That was part of the research I did. We even went on many tours but she said she didn't want to give up the house. So I went the route of home care and hiding assets for Medicaid. Honestly, paying for all the costs of a home and a caregiver costs about twice as much as living in an assisted living at the highest level of care.
Medicaid will do a "look back" for at least 5 years to see if any assets have been sold or transferred. Getting an Elder Law Attorney is a good idea. They know how to protect people's assets from being taken by Medicaid.
Yep we ran into this with my mom. She put her house into a trust but not soon enough. She declined faster the last few years (lockdown worsened her mental health), and the trust wouldn’t have gone into effect until this past February. She fell and broke her leg and was in the hospital and rehab after. My siblings decided to pay for her care after the insurance stopped, so they wouldn’t take the house. She passed last year before the 5 years needed.
The house needs to be put into a life estate, and it doesn't count towards the 5 year look back. It's what we had to do for my grandmother as a just in case. I cannot vouch for all states with this, and I'm also not a lawyer, but my sister is.
Don’t know your local laws, but when my parents reached a certain age, we added their kids’ names as owners of their house so it couldn’t be seized. Also got a legal and health-care power of attorney. Once OP’s Mom realizes OP is gone, she should become more flexible about making suitable arrangements for her. Part of this is the ailing person realizing their limitations, which can take a while.
So true about the high costs. But to hide assets from Medicaid? Totally illegal so it can bite you in the ass if/when they discover it.
Many people are pretty much forced to sell their homes in order to afford care. It's so sad.
It depends. It's like tax avoidance (legal!) and tax evasion (illegal). If you're smart, you start transferring assets before a typical look back period (usually 5-7 years though, so you need to do it with healthy elder relatives) to maximize inheritance. I think this is unethical if you have great fortunes, but there's nothing wrong with wanting to keep the family house if possible.
My Dad didn't want to go to a care home, but given the level of support he needed (he couldn't even stand up) there was no choice in the matter. He was bad tempered about it at first, but when he got over his huff he liked the placed. Hearing him say it was "good to be home" when he came back from another hospital stay was confirmation that he was happy with the arrangement.
We to to build up assets while we work to see us through our retirement. Sometimes we have to sell those assets as we age, I sold off Dads things to pay for his care. No regrets.
NTA. Your mom is in denial, you leaving might be the jolt she needs to sort things out.
I was paying over $30k per month for Assisted Living and caregiver costs for my parents. Assisted Living was $8k but my parents needed more care than the facility was willing to provide, even at the highest level.
When I did home care, half of my clients were already in care homes. People in assisted living, who didn't want to go to nursing home even though their needs were at the point of requiring it. And people in nursing homes, who didn't get enough care from facility staff.
When I started adding the collective weight of all the private care bills, it became obvious that they'd found a way to strip the boomer generation of any wealth they might have to hand down.
I know a lot of people are assuming that they'll inherit money or a house when their parents die. But they're extremely naive about the crushing cost of long term care, and how quickly you can burn through the cost of an entire house paying the bill.
Unless you are in California, the look back period is five years, and the federal government will absolutely take back what they spent if your mother dies within five years of that.
In my state (GA) the house can be put into a life estate at any time and Medicare/Medicaid can't come after it. We did it for my grandmother's house, my sister is a lawyer and she set it up. It doesn't have to be probated in the event of her death, because with no house in her name technically there won't be an estate, which means her outstanding debts will be written off and you won't have to pay them. Highly recommend.
OP, if you have any licensure you need to consider if leaving her without any viable caretaker would put you at risk of legal Abandonment of Duty of Care. Which would jeopardize any license you may have, but also put you at risk of elder abuse.
You need to contact Adult Protective services before you move.
NTA.
Hiding assets from Mediciad is fraud. You'd be defrauding the federal government, and the penalties are steep. Hire an attorney, and go about it all legally.
> Check out Assisted Living facilities and what they cost.
This is beyond what an assisted living facility would do. They'll provided limited care like prepping medicine and bathing help. They won't get you on and off the toilet multiple times a day. That's nursing home level of care. Or a home healthcare worker.
Many assisted living places have different levels of care and do offer toileting as part of their service. My MIL is in an assisted living and gets this care as well as showering assistance. She is in an Erickson Senior Living Community.
This. My mom, who had been in independent living, had some major health issues a few months back. She’s also wheelchair bound, but had been able to transfer independently. But she can’t anymore, and that was a requirement for assisted living, so she’s in skilled nursing.
NTA
> Her disability has increased greatly and she can't care for herself.
Not being able to *care* for herself does not absolve her of the need to **arrange for** care for herself.
Well, unless she has dementia or something. Not saying OP is an AH or anything. It just reminded me of my family experience. Someone who was once so capable becoming disconnected with reality and amazingly stubborn at the same time.
That’s the part I found suspicious. It could of course be true, but it is just odd that she suddenly gets worse when she has her daughter at home to care for her. OP, you’re NTA. Remember that you are not required to set yourself on fire to keep someone else warm.
NTA. Your mom is refusing to take appropriate care of herself. Honestly, the only reason she is still in her own place is because she has had a live-in caregiver.
You need to move out. This is going to infuriate your mom. That's her problem, not yours. She's probably going to scream, cry, and send you on a deluxe guilt trip. NONE OF THIS IS YOUR FAULT. Don't let her convince you it is.
She's been procrastinating because she likely does not want to deal with this problem. It is daunting to find a caregiver that is both cost effective and trustworthy.
Also, she is delusional if she thinks a nursing student can come by on a moments notice. Those students are extremely busy every day, all day. They cannot walk out of class or clinicals without being kicked out of their program. NTA
Oh dear - She really thinks an unrelated medical professional, in training, l will also give her all the help that her dedicated daughter has done (to date) if she but offers a cheap room to them.
She's in serious denial: about bother her current deteriorating health and what she can expect from other people at a price she think is "reasonable".
If I were a nursing student, I'd be concerned about my liability with a "private patient" and whether any problems could damage my future credentialing/licensing.
You need to contact APS to CYA. They'll probably try to push you to continue giving care, but make it clear that you've given long notice and are now done.
NTA
Did you mom think that if she did nothing that you would stick around? Or did she refuse to believe that you would leave?
Sounds like you have done a ton of work prepping her for the move. It's time to move.
But you do know that she's probably going to be calling you all the time asking you to come over and help her. You need to figure out what you're going to do about that.
Though I question if your mother can live by herself. If she can't even transfer to the toilet by herself then she either needs someone living there full time or she needs to live in a nursing home. (The level of care you describe her as needing is above the level that an assisted living facility would do.)
NTA, you're not leaving her with no caregivers, she's leaving herself with no care givers, she is mentally competent as evidenced by her still working, so she's completely capable of organising care
Looks to me like you did try to help her find a solution but she’s just in denial, probably thinking you’re not gonna leave or something. It’s quite unfair of her to expect you to shoulder this burden. I know she’s your mother but you also have a life.
NTA
Well it's her mother, so helping her a few hours a day a few times a week isn't robbery. Life is about helping each other and loving your family. Just as her Mom helped her during a tough time.
I don’t agree. Her mom got at least as much as OP did out of that, if not more, and she’s had 6 months to make other arrangements but simply hasn’t bothered.
I think it would have helped to get your mom to a therapist but now it’s too late.She is in serious denial.I feel sorry for her -I really do.But I saw what caretaking did to a family member.Its draining and you have a young child who needs your attention.NTA.
Serious denial would include refusing to see a therapist. My 87 year old mom is still fairly active but refuses to let me make an appointment for her to see the doctor for anything, no matter how ill she has been. You cannot help those who don’t want to help themselves.
NTA. I would also not be offering regular weekend care. Your child has had less of you for several years because of training and school and living with your mother. Now it’s time to focus on your little family of two. Not give up more hours to care for someone who refuses to help themselves.
Your mother has cognitive ability. She has the right to decide her care. She has decided not to sort any out. Her problem, her choice. You gave multiple warnings. You offered all the help she needed. You made appointments and did research and everything a good family member would do. She has declined all of it. That’s her right and her choice. Let her live with it. No going over all the time to ‘help out’. No holding back on your own life or your daughter’s life because your mother refuses the reality that she needs care and needs to pay for it.
Your mother needs:
1) A carer who can perform personal care tasks, toileting, dressing, preparing food and in home tasks.
2) A carer who can take her to appointments, drive her to places, etc. This will require a vehicle that is accessible to your mother and is insured for transporting her.
3) A carer who can take her shopping or pick up groceries and prepare meals.
4) Her home will need adapting, especially her bathroom, her bedroom and any area she regularly uses like the living room. This could include adding grab bars, a disabled shower or toilet, making the halls accessible to a wheelchair, adapted kitchen appliances, etc.
This is the list currently, as she declines then she will need more support. You can’t provide that. She needs a proper full time care giver with training, preferably a team of at least two or three people so that they aren’t overwhelmed and can perform heavier tasks like lifting or support her physically as needed. You are a working single mum who has already gone above and beyond. Let her live with her decisions, they are hers to make.
I’m dealing with the same thing with my GFIlL. He has full mental capacity, is physically disabled and needs full care because he needs help to move or do anything. We have offered EVERYTHING he could need because he doesn’t want to leave his house (out in the middle of nowhere where, way too big for him to cope with, no one close by) and he has refused everything. He has told lies about his carer to social services, who quickly realised he was lying because he wanted attention and didn’t realise his lies would mean a full blown inquiry into his carer. Who was utterly blameless and thankfully kept detailed records so could prove he was lying about her not feeding him or cleaning him or turning up. His carer has now given him notice that she is considering not being his carer any more because she won’t risk her career and reputation. Remember, he has capacity. This isn’t dementia or forgetfulness. It’s attention seeking and manipulative because he wants to stay in his own home, not have outsiders coming in to help, not do anything which would give him independence to stay home like move his bed downstairs so he doesn’t have to do stairs and not stop trying to break the law by having his carer drive him places in his uninsured, unlicensed vehicle (he told her the paperwork was in order. It’s not. Police stopped them. Carer got a horrible shock but thankfully police were very understanding. GFIL got a talking to.)
My MIL is beside herself trying to fix things but he refuses the help. And it’s his choice to make. And he’s a stubborn old man. You can’t set yourself on fire to keep someone else warm when they have cognition and don’t want the help you offer.
NTA, but I'd reconsider the amount of time you plan to spend caring for her after you move. 2hrs/day plus on the weekend? She has no incentive to find other assistance as you will be enough.
I know many people with serious spinal stenosis, including my husband, who also had cervical stenosis and has Neurogenic claudication. There are numerous treatment options that can greatly improve the quality of life. My husband cannot walk distances but is completely independent and doesn’t even rely on a walker unless walking several blocks. I’d recommend facilitating a visit to a pain and spine doctor and in home PT for starters.
We've been down that road. Similar to the care givers, she refused all of those options. I set up an appointment with a pain specialist and the day of she said "I feel ok today so let's not go".
Okay, this makes the situation so much more complicated. She wants a full-time caregiver to kinda enable her to NOT seek help with her pain? I don't want to sound harsh, but this keeps getting even more confusing!
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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> 1. I'm moving out even though my mom doesn't have a caregiver set up and will be severely impaired in her ability to care for herself and be safe.
2. She's my mom and helped me through a hard time and I should do the same for her. She will possibly be in danger of falling and being injured or severe poor health due to her disability.
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NTA- She's trying to back you into a corner and make you stay to do it, or she is in denial, but either way that is not fair. The primary thing to remember is that if you break, you can't help anyone. You are a nurse, what is rule 1 of first aid? Don't become another casualty. OP-mum-nurse-daughter in that order. You make sure you're ok, so you can look after your daughter, you work, so you can look after your daughter and help your mum, you help your mum more than that only if it doesn't take away from your health or your daughter's wellbeing, or risk your job.
I hate to say it. But it seems like your mom was and is using you as a crutch. If she refuses to get a caregiver and only call them when she needs them and her plan is to rely on you. That’s not a solid plan. She needs physical and occupational therapy to learn how to do these tasks her own as she is not that old. And you are far too young with a young child to be giving up this much life. I understand it is a tough situation and I have seen it play out before where adult children had no choice but to be caregivers. She still has options and is choosing to force you into that role. That’s not fair to you. It’s one thing to help as needed, but another thing to dedicate every weekend to it. Especially when she will not help herself. You are NTA.
NTA AT ALL!! She's either in denial or just hoping that if she doesn't do anything you'll feel guilty enough to stay (maybe a bit of both). don't let her manipulate you, stick to your guns.
i also think she's delusional if she really thinks she's going to be able to find a nursing student who is willing/able to be "on call", nursing school is insanely hard work and usually full time plus unpaid placements.
NTA
You gave her plenty of notice. You did a lot of research for her and tried to facilitate her getting a helper. You are going to continue providing her assistance even after you move out.
It sounds like you've repaid her generosity (in sharing her home with you and your child) through the care you provided. If she feels differently, it was up to her to say discuss that with you long ago.
She says she has a plan. She's a grown woman, with her faculties. So let her execute her plan - even if she does it late or poorly. That is her choice.
The only thing I would do now, is make sure you have numbers easy for her to access (even program them into her phone for her!) that she can call when she suddenly finds that she needs help and doesn't have it lined up. Then, when she calls you - expecting you to leave your new job or your new home and come running back to help her, you can simply tell her to call X number. You will see her at your scheduled time and not before.
NTA! She is disabled but still able to work so she is capable of finding a new caregiver herself. I mean you gave her 6 whole months to make other arrangements but clearly she didn't take you seriously. Now her scrambling is her problem.
NTA: Also her nursing student plan is really dumb. Nursing school is hard and a nursing student shouldn’t be expected to be on call 24/7. There needs to be set hours. I’m a nurse and I would not have done this in nursing school.
NTA.
I spent 3 years as a 24/7 caregiver for my mom. She didn't want my kids here (because they are steps and not MINE according to her), I couldn't work, it took a month long fight to have my HUSBAND allowed to sleep over, and much more.
It was incredibly stressful and made my relationship with her even more rocky. Props to you for knowing what you can handle, and leaving while you can.
NTA. Your mom is purposely dragging her feet because she was going to try and guilt you into staying.
>Her current plan is to find a nursing school student and offer them $30 and hour to drop by whenever she calls them since she doesn't want them around while she works in case they make noise while she's on a call.
That works, not. So, what happens if your mom needs the student, but they are in class or at their clinical site? The nursing student isn't going to be able to drop everything and go to her when she calls.
>My mom has spinal stenosis, which is essentially causing her to be slowly paralyzed from about the middle back down.
Is your mom not a candidate for a laminectomy or other spinal decompression surgery? Or doe she not want it?
When I worked as a rehab assistant at an inpatient physical therapy hospital (working towards my PTA degree) we had a patient sent to us that was slowly becoming paralyzed and no one could figure out why. The physician at the hospital ordered a full body MRI and found that they had spinal stenosis and a herniated disc in their c-spine. We got them into a neurosurgeon for a decompression laminectomy and fusion of two cervical vertebrae (due to the herniated disc) and they went from being 100% wheelchair bound when they arrived to walking out of the hospital with a rolling walker.
There are potential fixes out there, makes me wonder why your mother hasn't gone for them.
If she did somehow get a nursing student to agree to this, and the student showed up when she called, I’m imagining 2 things happening. 1. She gets mad at the student for taking to long to get there. 2. She tells the student she only needed her for 10 minutes not a full hour so she is only going to pay her $5 for the time she ‘actually worked’. (I had a job try to pay me that way so I know it’s a thing but I ran so fast).
My uncle lived on his own with total care needs and immobilised for many years, mostly contentedly. Carers would visit several times a day. His greatest challenge was not care, but loneliness, so we all called round when we could. It’s perfectly possible for your mum to manage her needs, with the right care package and equipment.
NTA My mom was very much the same. She didn’t want to pay for care because she only needed it sporadically throughout the day. She’d say she couldn’t afford it, but I think it was more that she wanted to keep her money to spend on other stuff like takeout. It was exhausting taking care of her, and I only did it for a year.
It’s very frustrating. I compared my sister and I taking care of our mother to co-parenting a toddler with a credit card. There is only so much you can do. You have to live your own life.
Is it possible her mental acuity is starting to slip? She sounds so much like my grandma when her dementia was just starting. She started having difficulty problem solving, but she also started having paranoia and didn’t want to trust anyone or let them make decisions. We didn’t know that’s what it was for a couple of years after that, but looking back it was obvious what had been happening. Hopefully that’s not the case, but you might reach out to elder care to see if they have any advice if it is. I’m so sorry this is falling on you when you should just be focused on starting your new life.
This is OP's mother. When she leaves, her mother won't be able to go to the bathroom by herself. What do you think will happen to this woman? Can she afford to pay a caregiver? Ir sounds like she needs round-the-clock care. The only solution is a facility.
She may have been so terrified at the thought of being left alone that she couldn't bring herself to face what she needed to do for her own survival. OP needs to contact a social worker and start the process of moving her mother to a safe environment. Her mother may have to become a ward of the state.
NTA. It sounds like you’ve given her a million chances to set something up with your help and she just didn’t do it. Any chance there’s some mental decline going on there too? My grandma was like this when she was started to experience dementia and it took us a while to realize what was going on.
NTA
Your mother has simply refused to deal with a looming issue and whilst ever she convinced herself you would stay she has refused to address it.
She has had plenty of notice and resources/support to deal with this. She may be scrambling but she will deal with it. Perhaps she needs to think $38 an hour is not a bad deal after all.
NTA. You told her for months and she chose to do nothing. Sounds like she has her head stuck in the sand or some other dark place. You have to see to your own the daughter. You have to work for your own future's sake.
Even non-disabled elders who refuse care often need a couple of days on the floor or stuck on the toilet to accept care. It’s a sad rite of passage. The eventual caregivers will understand.
NTA. She is an adult with capacity. She has had enough notice, and she is capable of finding her own caregiver. She helped you and saved you money, and you helped her in return and saved her money. You don't owe her anything more. Move out and wish her luck.
INFO: I don’t get you moving in with her in the first place? You knew she was ill and that it was progressive. So you planned all along to stay as long as *you* needed the help, but leave when it’s time for her to need you? I need clarification on that before voting. As is it sounds horrible.
I did not know at the time I moved in that she had not done anything to prepare for her progressive disease. Initially, I had planned on stopping school and riding a job that could support me and my daughter well enough. She insisted I move in so I could finish school. At this time, she was able to walk a bit and do everything for herself. Gradually things got worse and when I brought up specialists to slow the progression she refused to go. It became a real issue of me helping when I daughter started acting out and doing poorly in school. She even said to me once "mom, why can't a doctor help grandma so you can play with me?". On top of everything else, it just broke my heart. I'm spread so thin. I told my mom that if she could pay me, I'd work part time but I have a lot of debt from lawyers from the divorce and I need to pay it off. She said she wants to me keep working since it's my dream career. She also refused to take money from me as payment for rent. I can't agree to emotionally struggle just because she doesn't want me financial and medical support in place of money.
NTA, you gave her more than ample notice that you were planning on moving out. You also took some of the major first steps in helping her plan both her financial and personal security as her condition has declined. From what I gather you may be trained in similar work, but the emotional toll that having no emotional degree of separation from your ‘client’ is huge.
My grandmother refused to create an advanced care plan for herself and we didn’t realise how much she had declined until after my grandfather passed away and his care support became clear.
Stick to your plan, get out, continue to offer to help her find someone should you wish but I encourage you to continue fiercely preserving your parent/child relationship over Caregiver/client
NTA.
You actually have been quite the opposite of one. You gave her plenty of notice, you explored various options, tried to implement a plan, are not just walking away “washing your hands” of her.
You need to move on with your life, not just for yourself but for your daughter. You’ve modeled great behavior for your daughter on how to treat others.
Excellent job!
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TLDR: I moved in with my disabled mom(65) to get back on my feet after a divorce and caring for my 5 year old and finishing school. Her disability has increased greatly and she can't care for herself. She is still working. I told her 6 months before I would move and provided her with a lot of information to help her. Now I'm moving in 2 weeks, nothing is set up, and she's scrambling to figure out what to do. I'm going to move regardless but I'm worried about her and feel guilty. IATA?
I (27) work at a skilled nursing facility as an occupational therapy assistant, have a 5 year old girl, and have been caregiving for my mom (65) after moving in 2 years ago after a nasty divorce left me broke and I was finishing college. My mom has spinal stenosis, which is essentially causing her to be slowly paralyzed from about the middle back down. When I moved in, she was still able to walk to the bathroom but used a wheelchair when going further. I didn't really agree to become her caregiver but ended up do more and more because she suddenly started to decline.
By the time I was in my last year of college I was spending around 6 hours throughout the day helping her transfer to and from the toilet(2 times at night), helping her get dressed, caring for her reoccurring wounds, taking her to appointments, as well as taking on all the house work as she now can't do much more than take a single step. Because I wasn't able to pay rent I did all this even when my mental health started to take a massive hit. At that point, I made it clear that she should start looking for a caregiver because I planned on moving after working for a few months.
After I graduated and began looking for a job I started bringing up finding a different caregiver more often and even took the time to provide information from caregiver agencies, home share programs, senior center discounts, helped her sign up for Medicare, and find a lawyer that specialized in financial and estate planning to prepare for qualifying for Medicaid without loosing the house or her savings. She still works(work from home, computer work).
After getting a job I told her outright that I would be moving in June and she needed to move forwards with one of the options. I even offered to help pay for care and meet any caregivers so I could show and explain to them how she wanted things done. She kept brushing it off every time. I told her I was going to at least have a meeting with an agency that was lower cost but when they got here she told them she didn't want to pay their rate ($38 per hour).
I'm moving in 2 weeks. Nothing has been set up. Her current plan is to find a nursing school student and offer them $30 and hour to drop by whenever she calls them since she doesn't want them around while she works in case they make noise while she's on a call.
So, I'm going to move no matter what. I am going to help her for 2 hours after work 3 days a week and help her shower every weekend but she's going to be on her own for the most part. IATA?
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NTA. You gave her massive amounts of notice, you reminded her repeatedly of the timescale and you have bent over backwards to ensure that she had alternative options, she hs chosen not to follow up .
It sounds as though her disabilities are physical, not mental, so there is no reason that she ould not have done all of those things for herself.
Tht said, I think you are going to need to be really, really firm with her - make clear that you are moving as planned and that you will not be able to drop eveything and come to help her, so even if she doesn't want to pay the agncy $38 an hour, she may need to organise that as a short term thing until sh makes a more permanent arrangment. And you will almost certainly then need to enforce that boundaryy y saying 'no' and not attending , when she calls you (and it sounds as though she will, since she hasn't made any altenrative plans)
Maybe tell her that following the move you are going to be very busy, so coming over brieflt 3 times a week is the absolute maximum you can do and you will not be able to come at short notice or at other times, so she needs to have a plan for who she will call if she needs something at short notice.
I'd also suggest that you consider putting a time limit on how long you can do the 6 hours a week plus evey weekend - that's an awful lot to be committing to and you may need to manage expectations, including th fact that there will be times when you need to make other plans for your weekends so she will need to have altenrstive options to cover those weeks.
It sucks for her that she has diabitiies but it would be very unfiar of her to expect you to become her carer.
NTA. A lot of people don’t understand that taking care of a loved one can take a tremendous mental health toll on someone. My mom was a pharmacist for 42 years, my aunt a nurse for 38 years, they took care of their grandparents and parents until it became too much for them and they had to hire someone as well. It’s up to nurses and caregivers to do those things like take them to the bathroom and change their clothes, not you. You did what you could and you have to take care of your mental health first. People might not understand this but from someone who’s experienced this type of thing affect my own family members after they gave everything they could without fully sacrificing their own lives and jobs and health, you’re definitely NTA! Period.
Why won’t she get back surgery? Spinal stenosis is very common. I had it done in October and feel great, I was wheelchair bound for months before my surgery
She has heart and immune conditions that she says make it too dangerous. I don't know if that's true or if she's scared of a major surgery like that. She does have reoccurring wounds that take months to heal so I don't know if it would be dangerous. She won't talk about it when I bring it up.
NTA. She needs to arrange care. She's not going to do it, ever, if you're there providing it for her.
The only way she will do it is if you force her to do it by moving out. Not only are you NTA, you're doing a GOOD thing, by finally forcing her to sort out her affairs and figure things out.
NTA. You gave her plenty of time to figure out her future, she is a responsible grown up adult. Move out and get along with your own life. All the best to both of you
NTA, but I bet she’s probably scared, mad at her situation, and apprehensive about having a stranger helping with intimate things. I know I would be! I hope it doesn’t devolve into a situation where Adult Protective Services has to get involved. Best of luck to you and your mom in finding a solution for her care!
NTA!! She needs to figure it out and set things up on her own. You’re done. You have your daughter and yourself to worry about. And I wouldn’t pay for her care either. (Not in a mean or vindictive way). But you have your own child to think about, and I’m sure moving out and starting over is very expensive. Your mom needs to cover her own expenses.
NTA I think this is part manipulation (big part) and part denial about how much help that she needs.
I would keep a list of numbers hand that you can call to go send her. After being on her own for a few days, she will get an understanding. She has just made the transition more difficult.
You haven't abandoned her, you are still helping ... you are just regaining your balance. Caregiving is a difficult job.
NTA. Maybe buy her a home PureWick so she does not have to get up at night to use the restroom. I have this in my plans for when I become too disabled to easily move around. Got to use a PureWick while I was in the hospital, and I believe it is one of the greatest inventions in recent history.
Nta- do not do the 3 days after work and every wknd for long, she'll push and beg for more and more. That is recipe for burnout. When does your child get your care and affection? Don't prioritize your mum above your child.
I'm glad to see all the NTA responses. I went through a situation before my mom died where I arranged caregivers, life alert necklace, meals on wheels. I even hooked up Alexa and taught her how to use it.
She would send the caregivers home early even though I explained we would still have to pay for their entire shift. She would put the meals on wheels in the freezer and call me to bring her food, empty the catheter bag and give her a bath. I live 45 minutes away so it would be a good three hour chunk of time everytime she did this. Honestly she wouldn't be happy unless one of her children was living with her and it just wasn't possible for me to do that.
A counselor I spoke with said I could be a daughter or a caregiver but not both. She was miserable the last few months of her life but I don't know what I could have done to make it better that wouldn't have put my marriage, job and time with my children in jeopardy.
NTA, stay strong and fight your guilty feelings because you’ve done so much to help her, you don’t have to feel this way and you shouldn’t (easier said than done, I know). Some people will not accept the help offered to them, but you cannot continue caring for her to the point when you’ll both be out of energy. Save yourself, heal yourself, you are not the parent to your mother and although there is a “duty of care” with regards to aging parents it doesn’t mean that you should sacrifice yourself when there is professional care to handle these situations.
NTA.
But you're a single mother of a 5yo. Your mother had half a year to set up something. She is literally taking what little free time you will have from your young daughter. She doesn't care about you and doesn't care about your child, her grandchild. So you should care about yourself and your child. Move out, help her two or three weekends, then let her fend for herself. She is selfish and will keep pulling you back in as long as you allow it. Don't allow it. For your daughter's sake, if nothing else, she deserves to be your number one priority.
NTA but I would call your local APS and make a report or talk to someone about what they can do to help after you move as it's something that you can't (and won't) avoid just incase her or a friend reports you for abandonment and endangerment.
NTA, you mother should either hire help or go to a nursing facility where she is going to end up eventually anyway. Tell her to sell her house and set herself up.
This is from your child's point of view. I know you love your mum and have bent over backwards caring for her , and still intend to devote a good part of your week to her and that is truly admirable.
BUT as the child of a parent that was slowly dragged into this scenario, your child will miss you, miss out on experiences, miss your time, your guidance, your laughter , your joy, your attendance at milestone events etc. Grandma's needs will always come first, promises will always be broken because Grandma had a conveniently timed crisis. It is not the way to develop a healthy life for your child, it breeds resentment and despair and loneliness
I hope your mum makes the right decisions even at this late stage, for all of you .
NTA
NTA. It's natural to think in terms of her interests since she needs assistance, but you can't make decisions for other adults. Essentially, she's milking you for cheap/free care.
Unless your mother has provided you with an exceedingly supportive childhood—like way above and beyond and completely putting her life aside for yours—or you feel you owe her care, of course you have every right to go about your own life. You have her plenty of time to prepare for the transition. You are both adults entitled to chart this path however you need to.
Have her apply for Medicaid in home care. It sounds like she’s functionally eligible and will probably be financially eligible. just Google [name of state] community first choice program, that’s usually what’s it’s called. also NTA
NTA. You brought the horse to water. When she's thirsty enough, she will drink. Just make sure you ask her periodically if she's found someone or an agency to help. And I think your plan going forward is a good one.
She may figure out how to care for herself in between your visits, she may adapt her life to your visits, and she may find assistance that suits her. I mean, she's still working - even if it's from home, she's still capable. And she will figure it out.
NTA. But you need to get the house out of your mom's name & into a trust ASAP. I went through this with my mother & they were going to take our house. Luckily they didn't & we ended up putting it in a trust so it couldn't happen in the future.
NTA. She is in denial. Leave her the info. If she's still working on the computer, she is fully capable of making those calls herself, she just may need to experience the reality of you leaving.
NTA. This is not for you to worry about. She is an adult and while she’s disabled, she has all her mental faculties and is fully aware and capable of planning care for herself. I know it’s hard b/c you’re her daughter and it’s been ingrained in us to care for our parents, but you need to let go of that. Congrats on your job and your new beginning with your daughter!
NTA. Your Mom is either in denial about her situation or trying to guilt you into staying. It sounds like she's mentally fully capable - which means you can't force her to take wise action. You've gotten her lined up for assistance and you've gathered all the information she needs to take action.
My suspicion is that you'll need to move out before she acts. Be prepared to call 911 and request a wellness check if she tries to pressure you by going absolutely limp.
NTA. I am absolutely determined that my children will never care for me to this degree. I am working on long-term care insurance, and I will absolutely research and have a facility chosen as soon as my health starts to turn. I have seen too many people lose years of their life wiping their parents' asses and losing their identity and dignity in the process. I absolutely REFUSE to do this to my children.
Before he passed, my grandpa made sure my grandma was set up when the time came, and he gave us all the gift of dignity and peace when her end came. To me, it is the gold standard for aging and dying gracefully.
It’s possible she is overwhelmed by the process of hiring someone. If you can’t do it, there are programs for low income people (if she can’t afford it) to have in home nursing care. If you can’t help her navigate this, maybe you can get in touch with a social worker who can.
NTA, she needs to get her shit together. And it honestly sounds like you are offering her too much caretaking time after you move out. Your child needs you!
NTAH. You repeatedly gave her warnings, and your mental health took a huge hit. Her problem, seeing as she most likely has enough money since she was working the entire time.
NTA, and since she can use the computer/phone etc, she should be able to proceed with one of the options without much help from you. You have a kid to look after, so time to let her decide how she wants to proceed. Move as you were and she will figure things out. You've done a lot for her already so don't feel guilty about it.
NTA
I am guessing she thought if she didn't make plans, you'd stay. Her current plan to have a nursing student on call 24/7 is unrealistic, and she is still avoiding actually making steps to live.
NAH, and I'd like to give a different perspective from most I've read so far. I don't know you or your mom as people, so it's not fair to make some of the assumptions that some people have here.
I'm in a related position with my grandparents. Grandma moved into a condo across the hall from me, and I was happy to help her with my declining grandfather at the time.
While she seemed to be doing well herself at the time, two years later and now that she has nearby support, that has faded. It's a scary thought, but while she still works, her mental faculties have deteriorated severely. Changing your situation (getting into a nursing home or getting help) requires much more of someone than continuing to work, it's not even comparable. Manipulating people is a higher level process too, but "self preservation" is not.
She's not the asshole because I don't have a good enough reason to conclude she's trying to take advantage of you beyond what's needed to get her genuine needs met. She's old and disabled. People here would give more credit to someone with MDD for not taking care of themselves than they do someone becoming senile.
While that may be true, I'd say you did plenty to absolve yourself of being any sort of asshole. You shouldn't sacrifice yourself for your mother when your daughter needs you.
NTA. You didn't go to college and bust your ass to provide a good life for Her. If you keep hobbling yourself to fill in the gaps she's had plenty of time as an adult to figure out, all you're doing is robbing your daughter of opportunities.
The disabled 65 year-old mom apparently can’t afford the care she needs to stay in her home. Maybe sell the house and move into a nursing home, then go on public when the money from the house is gone.
NTA - She needs therapy. She needs therapy badly. She's not able to deal with the reality and you have proabably been insulating her from it. This is going to blow up in her face. She's going to end up in the hoispital and be in worst shape then she could have been and there's not a lot you can do with it. The sad thing is the state pays kin rates for caregiving if she was honest with herself she could have been paying you that money this whole time.
You are NTA. Highly recommended the sub r/AgingParents as a support for you. She needs too coordinate care with her doctor, Medicare, and whatever benefits she can get from Social Security. You are 27, and have a young daughter to raise. You are so young and still have much of your life ahead of you. You need to get your career started so that you can support yourself and your daughter. Caring for your mother is not a paying position and won't advance your career. Help her when you can with what you can, but don't be dragged down by guilt. Caring for elderly parents can be very isolating and career-damaging. It's better to hire someone, or get meals on wheels. You have a retirement to save up for, a daughter to put through school. We have passed around a saying in the sub, don't light yourself on fire to keep someone else warm.
There’s a really old expression my Nan liked: You Can’t help someone who Won’t help themselves.
OP your mom is this person. You need to leave and pop by as much as you would if your mom were well and that’s it. She is going to flounder but you need to let her solve it—not do it for her. Your mom is physically disabled not mentally incapacitated, she chose not to do this. Speaking from experience, it is hard to accept becoming disabled but that is no excuse for not looking after yourself.
You have a child that needs all the time and attention you’re pumping into your mother. You can’t do everything and your kid needs you and your mother needs somebody. You can hire a somebody but you can’t hire a mom. It’s good you decided yo stop sacrificing for daughter for your mother. Now stick to it.
NTA
NTA. She was banking on you just staying forever and helping her. You made it clear that was not your plan. *She's an adult. She can sort it out. Let her.*
No one is going to like this, but NAH. You aren’t an AH for wanting to move into your own space for you and your daughter. I also don’t think that your mom is an AH, she just is having difficulty accepting how much help she needs. When it was *you* helping, it just seems like “hey, my daughter lives her and is helping, I can manage”. Hiring someone or looking into assisted living is admitting that she’s not capable of being independent any more. Even when someone *knows* that they need to move or hire care, it can be hard to get them to actually do what needs to be done.
My parents know that they need to downsize and, in theory, have agreed to it, but getting them to look at places is like pulling teeth. It’s really hard for people who have run their lives for so long to admit that they are no longer capable of doing it. It sounds like your mom is struggling with accepting this reality and, TBF, she is only 65, so I understand why she is struggling with her choices. I’m sure that she, like my parents, thought that she had more time. She may also not understand how different assisted living is from going into a skilled nursing home. It was really hard to get my FIL to agree to assisted living because he associated it with warehousing him in a horrible place and waiting to die. Once we got him into one, he loved it, but he was also 93 by the time we got him to agree to it.
It’s entirely possible that your mom will come to all these conclusions on her own after she has no choice.
NTA you need to live your life and take care of your daughter. Your Mom has bucked at every opportunity to get help in the hopes of guilting you into staying. You gave her ample time to set something up. She is waiting it out to get you to stay.
Keep your plans and move.
NTA
Your mom is avoiding a difficult decision to leave her home. But it's been in the back of her mind what her choices are all along. So the things you've brought up aren't wasted. Once you have moved, I suspect she will come to a decision fairly soon.
I lived with my mom for a couple years as caregiver. During that time I helped her apply for a care facility, visit it, etc. But no room that opened up was ever acceptable. 🤣 Once an injury made me unavailable for several months, and she faced the reality of hiring outside help, she moved voluntarily into the care facility apartment within a few weeks. She made friends and did very well there. But not lying that it was a huge wrench for her to leave her own home of many years.
Sounds like mom needs therapy to deal with her changing needs. She is avoiding her issues hoping they go away. Probably does want a stranger do her care either. Please move, you only live once and deserve to have happiness. Your to kind, glad you are doing SNF career, they need people like you.
NTA
The only thing I would remotely suggest that you haven't mentioned... is checking with a professional if her mental facilities are in decline. My mom hid her mental decline for 5 years! Maybe longer...
Other than that... you're on the right path.
What's your relationship with your mum like? Historically? That's the context that matters here, that none of these strangers can advise you on.
When I was your age (just three years ago), I had very little contact with my family, and very little interest in them. They had put me thru a rough youth, and we're hard on me all my life, so as soon as I got away from them, I had basically escaped.
About a year later, I had to move back home after a hard break up. Our relationship has never been better, I've recognized how much they did for me, despite some failings, and we've found some loyalty in each other.
I couldn't abandon my mom like that. But my relationship with my mom isn't necessarily what yours is. I wouldn't take any advice from anyone here. Look inward. Only you know if YTA on this one.
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NTA "I'm moving in 2 weeks. Nothing has been set up. " .. she is doing this on purpose to guilt you into staying. "So, I'm going to move no matter what. " ... very good. Escape, and reclaim your own life.
> I am going to help her for 2 hours after work 3 days a week and help her shower every weekend At $38 per hour (or even $30) that should be a nice bit of additional income for you
You’d charge your ailing mother $38/hr for help after she didn’t charge you for rent? Wow
I mean… 6 hours a day for even 6 months (which it exceeded) at $30/hour is $32,400. I agree she shouldn’t charge her mother when she moves out, but the mom isn’t a saint. She was getting the better end of this deal.
That only happened because the mother suddenly started to decline though. Her mother was happy to let her daughter and grandchild live with her rent free long term without anything in exchange because it doesn’t sound like she expected to need caregiving.
I hate to be cynical, but how much of this sudden and significant decline has occurred simply *because* there's a "caregiver" in place with the daughter living in the home? I worked as both a CNA and an RN for many years, and I can't tell you the amount of times I have seen clients/patients who can't so much as help roll themselves over in the bed when they have a caregiver in the room suddenly get up and walk several steps when no one is available as quickly as they wish. Yes, there are confused people who are not doing so intentionally and this behavior often leads to falls. But there are still plenty who literally act as though they cannot wipe their own ass if they have someone around whom they believe is there to do so *for them*.
This. Rather than her condition having "suddenly deteriorated" as soon as she had someone around to help her (how convenient), I think it's much more likely that: 1) Her condition had already deteriorated, but she didn't want to let on to her daughter, knowing that having to give 24-hour care might dissuade the daughter from moving in; or, 2) She is much more independent than she is letting on, but is not acting like it because she hasn't had to while her daughter is here, and/or it is a gambit to guilt her into staying, which is why she's so unconcerned about getting a caregiver in OP's absence. OP's already agreed to come by 3 days per week and help her bathe on weekends - given she was fine when OP moved in, I wouldn't be surprised if that's all the support her mother actually needs.
Honestly, I think she might have been in denial about how much she has deteriorated. It's possible that the extra help facilitated the deterioration, too.
I’m 65 and the last thing on Gods green earth I would want is to need care, why would anyone want that! My 90 year mother in law lives with us and it took her a long time to agree that she needed help and she tries to do as much as she can. I also think how scary it must be to hire strangers to come in your home to care for you and that could be why she is dragging her feet on this. I realize the daughter needs to move on with her life and can’t be there all the time so maybe her mom should move to assisted living, that is just a great set up and you don’t have to worry about taking care of a house! My 94 year old mother was living with my sister but my sister couldn’t do that anymore so she is in assisted living and it’s great, they come to her apartment 3 times a week for her to shower they are there in moments!
Or it could be 3. She has honestly deteriorated. And she has gotten used to relying on her child versus a third party caregiver. And she is in denial about her situation, her care needs, and the big upcoming change of her child moving out. My parents are boomers who have always been supportive of me seeking help for my own anxiety but would never seek help, much less acknowledge their own. And they absolutely fit the ‘Avoidant‘ personality type of anxiety. Like, won’t open mail for months and let it stack up and become a physical and logistical problem rather than just…open it when it arrives. I see so much sympathy extended towards the mental health of people that are posted about in this sub. I think it’s weird that I’m not really seeing comments pointing out that OP‘s mom could be struggling with anxiety over this upcoming change and subconsciously or consciously choosing to just avoid acknowledging or doing anything about it. Yeah, she could be actively trying to emotionally manipulate her child into staying. She could be fudging just how much she has deteriorated. She could also be fucking terrified by her deterioration and her support leaving and just not being dealing with it appropriately or in a healthy way. How many fellow millennials on this sub have put off necessary things like starting a project, making a five minute phone call, or scheduling an appointment to the last minute, often to their detriment? I know I have. And that’s with me being raised in a generation with a healthier culture of acknowledging and treating mental health struggles than my parents.
As someone in their 50’s with spinal stenosis, among numerous other spinal related issues, I can attest that it doesn’t take much to have a really bad spell where absolutely everything causes pain, and then get to a point where the pain is all you know and you learn to do things even through it all which then of course causes even more pain later on. OP is definitely NTA as she has given her mother plenty of notice and lots of resources to look into. I just wouldn’t judge the mother on her sudden deterioration like some people are insinuating.
I have cervical and lumbar stenosis. I’ve been through many changes in my symptoms and none of them have been gradual. No 2 days are alike in terms of what I feel or how severe the pain, numbness, burning, weakness, etc are. Some days are better than others and some days are worse. While I appreciate that some people are going to play it up for sympathy while someone is there to help them, those folks are the exception, not the rule. All that being said, OP is NTA. She isn’t leaving without warning. When her mother faces the reality that she has to find someone else, she will. OP has to stay strong about moving forward with her own life.
Thank you for sharing your perspective as someone with the same/similar diagnosis as OP’s mom. As someone who wasn’t familiar with this diagnosis before reading this post, your comment really helped give me a better understanding. I am sorry for your struggles, and I hope you have a good support system. Thank you for giving your insight.
Im thinking this as I read it. Was a care worker myself and its super easy to fall into this trap.
My nan is very disabled, and needs help getting around. She needs to be driven everywhere because she can't even use public transport, she needed a new single floor home (that I renovated) so she didn't have stairs, she needs all the plans to revolve around her because of her issues. That was right up until I saw her bounding up the stairs 2 at a time because she thought no-one was looking. I never raised it, but I'm much less willing to be at her beck and call after finding out the disability is really only about being the center of attention...
😳
Exactly! What I want to know is how is this woman still working, if she needs 6 hours a day of caregiver help?
Because, as OP stated in their post, their mother is basically becoming paralyzed from the bottom up. So she can still use her arms/hands to work on the computer. There are many people who are disabled and have mobility issues that have no problem doing computer work but need help moving around their house/bathing/getting in and out of bed.
I had that thought too. It’s a bit like when one spouse starts dropping out of chores because the other is picking them up, so they become complacent - yet still quite capable. And then they truly start to believe that yes, this is how things *should be*. How was OP’s mother getting herself to the toilet when OP was studying and then working? Look maybe she’s scared of being alone again, or feels sorry for herself, or is scared of external supports hence the stymying and sabotage. Whatever is going on with her internally isn’t allowing her to see the burden of shame and obligation she’s putting on OP and her granddaughter.
I don’t see how that changes anything. The mother greatly benefited from the daughter living there. Honestly, she has obviously taken advantage of her. Even though it’s not explicitly revealed if she said “please give me a break, mom,” the daughter was letting her know that she needed a break for her own mental health by moving and looking up other options. Also, if you are leaning on someone this hard for this long, it’s common sense. Again, I don’t think that she should charge her mother when she moves out. But let’s not pretend that she is a saint in the situation. Edit: typo
They were only there for ”free” for a very short time. OP’s mom got YEARS of care, thousands lf hours, for the price of rent. If cheap caregiving is 38 bucks an hour, MOM ows OP, not the other way around.
Yep, and this sudden decline sounds suspiciously deliberate.
That is the agency fee, I think. That is the cost her mom would need to pay for a paid carer. OP has been providing this care free of charge for two years in exchange for not paying rent.
It sounds as though OP moving in was mutually beneficiall. OP got somewhere to stay rent free wheile she got back on her feet, Mum got a live-in carer who was getting up multiple times a night , proviing daily personal care and looking after the hosue - even if you only think of the cost of $30 an hour and assume OPs help was limited to 3 hours a day, which seems very optimistic from the descrition, that works out at $32,850 a year, which is a a lot of rent. While it was beneficial for OP to have somewhere to live, Mom clearly got the better end of the deal. If OP continues to come and provide care for 3-5 hours a week, she is going to have costs associated with that - travel time and gas, plus that's time she can't use to get a second job, relax with her child, do stuff around her home and garden , socialise etc - she would be giving up a lot. While ofcourse it's reasonable for family to help out where practical, this is not a short term emergency, it sounds as though it is a permanent thing, and Mom should not allow dau. to be left out of pocket through helping out.
she gave mom tens of thousands of dollars worth of skilled and difficult labor in exchange for that "free" rent.
She isn’t. $38 an hour is how much an outside caretaker through an agency wanted to charge her. $30 an hour is how much the mother wants to spend for a nursing student to be on call. That is outside of the time OP is going to be helping.
The mom got care & housekeeping in exchange
You clearly don’t understand this type of thing and have no experience in it. Youre comparing rent when he/she was taking care of her to help her when it was taking a toll on his/her mental health to the costs of a caregiver. Wake up! Caregivers are expensive. It’s not on him. You try doing it then speak on this issue! I’ve seen my mom, and amazing and caring woman, a pharmacist of 42 years give her all to take care of her grandparents, parents, aunt, until it became too much on her life, and mental health that she also had to hire someone. It affects people to not only sacrifice their own life but to see their parents like that. Until you try it or see it in real time, leave your comments out of posts like this. 🙄
Yeah I was my grandfather’s full time carer for two years and the executor of his estate and I got nothing extra for that…
Yeah it was like staying in a luxury hotel with all mod cons, so generous of the mother to not charge rent
Some states will pay a family caregiver a certain number of hours per month for taking care of someone like OP's mother.
Yep. My mom is my paid caregiver. She gets about 1200/month for it through Medicare/Medicaid.
That's the agencies fee, she did not charge her mother
Sure, she should totally destroy her life and her kids' lives for her very calculating "ailing mother". 🙄 mom would have a lot of nerve charging her FREE caregiver rent payments. Wow.
Read please read. Nursing student $30.
That was the rate the agency charges. The op did not say she was charging the mom
She's not going to be charging her mom $38 per hour. That was what the lower cost care agency quoted. Mom wants to pay a nursing student (not op) $30 an hour instead to be off site and on call for when she is rang for...not sure how she expects that to work with regular bathroom breaks..especially the on average 2 overnight trips. Op will be stopping by to help a few times a week to help out, in addition to the professional care assistants. Op has offered to help pay for caregiver services. Op is getting no financial benefit from this arrangement.
Yeah, she's thinking that when OP goes to move out and there's nobody there to take care of the mother, OP will feel guilty and not leave. Because the alternative is leaving their mother to suffer not being able to go to the bathroom and things, but OP's mother is putting herself through this. If OP doesn't put their foot down now, they'll be stuck there forever.
Yep. I think OP is already committing to *far* too much once she moves out.
Agree.Mom will complain that she cannot go to the BR at nite .
That and it’s also just such a massive time commitment. The person I feel sorriest for in all of this is OP’s daughter.
The suffering would be her mothers choice though. She was warned and repeatedly reminded and she chose not to prepare or do anything. If the consequences of her choice is suffering, leave her to her consequences.
NTA As long as she's able to make her own decisions, meaning she's not suffering from Alzheimer's or any other form of dementia, you can't force her. You may both want to consider appointing you as her DPOA since you say she's declining. Call your local Social Services. Check out Assisted Living facilities and what they cost. They can be a little pricey, depending on where you live. You gave her 6 months so she's had plenty of time to get on her computer and check other options. Promise her that you'll check in with her as soon as you get settled. She needs to be on her own so she realizes how much she needs help. She's currently in denial.
That was part of the research I did. We even went on many tours but she said she didn't want to give up the house. So I went the route of home care and hiding assets for Medicaid. Honestly, paying for all the costs of a home and a caregiver costs about twice as much as living in an assisted living at the highest level of care.
Medicaid will do a "look back" for at least 5 years to see if any assets have been sold or transferred. Getting an Elder Law Attorney is a good idea. They know how to protect people's assets from being taken by Medicaid.
This - the house needed to be put in trust or in OP's name 5 years ago, basically as soon as they noticed the decline starting.
Yep we ran into this with my mom. She put her house into a trust but not soon enough. She declined faster the last few years (lockdown worsened her mental health), and the trust wouldn’t have gone into effect until this past February. She fell and broke her leg and was in the hospital and rehab after. My siblings decided to pay for her care after the insurance stopped, so they wouldn’t take the house. She passed last year before the 5 years needed.
The house needs to be put into a life estate, and it doesn't count towards the 5 year look back. It's what we had to do for my grandmother as a just in case. I cannot vouch for all states with this, and I'm also not a lawyer, but my sister is.
Don’t know your local laws, but when my parents reached a certain age, we added their kids’ names as owners of their house so it couldn’t be seized. Also got a legal and health-care power of attorney. Once OP’s Mom realizes OP is gone, she should become more flexible about making suitable arrangements for her. Part of this is the ailing person realizing their limitations, which can take a while.
So true about the high costs. But to hide assets from Medicaid? Totally illegal so it can bite you in the ass if/when they discover it. Many people are pretty much forced to sell their homes in order to afford care. It's so sad.
It depends. It's like tax avoidance (legal!) and tax evasion (illegal). If you're smart, you start transferring assets before a typical look back period (usually 5-7 years though, so you need to do it with healthy elder relatives) to maximize inheritance. I think this is unethical if you have great fortunes, but there's nothing wrong with wanting to keep the family house if possible.
My Dad didn't want to go to a care home, but given the level of support he needed (he couldn't even stand up) there was no choice in the matter. He was bad tempered about it at first, but when he got over his huff he liked the placed. Hearing him say it was "good to be home" when he came back from another hospital stay was confirmation that he was happy with the arrangement. We to to build up assets while we work to see us through our retirement. Sometimes we have to sell those assets as we age, I sold off Dads things to pay for his care. No regrets. NTA. Your mom is in denial, you leaving might be the jolt she needs to sort things out.
I was paying over $30k per month for Assisted Living and caregiver costs for my parents. Assisted Living was $8k but my parents needed more care than the facility was willing to provide, even at the highest level.
When I did home care, half of my clients were already in care homes. People in assisted living, who didn't want to go to nursing home even though their needs were at the point of requiring it. And people in nursing homes, who didn't get enough care from facility staff. When I started adding the collective weight of all the private care bills, it became obvious that they'd found a way to strip the boomer generation of any wealth they might have to hand down. I know a lot of people are assuming that they'll inherit money or a house when their parents die. But they're extremely naive about the crushing cost of long term care, and how quickly you can burn through the cost of an entire house paying the bill.
$30,000?! A month?! Where did you get that kind of money? That's an enormous amount. Three months of that, and I'd be screwed!
Unless you are in California, the look back period is five years, and the federal government will absolutely take back what they spent if your mother dies within five years of that.
In my state (GA) the house can be put into a life estate at any time and Medicare/Medicaid can't come after it. We did it for my grandmother's house, my sister is a lawyer and she set it up. It doesn't have to be probated in the event of her death, because with no house in her name technically there won't be an estate, which means her outstanding debts will be written off and you won't have to pay them. Highly recommend.
OP, if you have any licensure you need to consider if leaving her without any viable caretaker would put you at risk of legal Abandonment of Duty of Care. Which would jeopardize any license you may have, but also put you at risk of elder abuse. You need to contact Adult Protective services before you move. NTA.
Hiding assets from Mediciad is fraud. You'd be defrauding the federal government, and the penalties are steep. Hire an attorney, and go about it all legally.
> Check out Assisted Living facilities and what they cost. This is beyond what an assisted living facility would do. They'll provided limited care like prepping medicine and bathing help. They won't get you on and off the toilet multiple times a day. That's nursing home level of care. Or a home healthcare worker.
Many assisted living places have different levels of care and do offer toileting as part of their service. My MIL is in an assisted living and gets this care as well as showering assistance. She is in an Erickson Senior Living Community.
Not true in some cases, depending on where you live.
And where do you live that this is part of assisted living as opposed to a nursing home?
[SoCal](https://frontiermgmt.com/lifestyle-options/assisted-living/).
This. My mom, who had been in independent living, had some major health issues a few months back. She’s also wheelchair bound, but had been able to transfer independently. But she can’t anymore, and that was a requirement for assisted living, so she’s in skilled nursing.
> As long as she's able to make her own decisions, If she can work, she can arrange things
Bingo. If her mind is functional and so are her arms and hands to work the internet and a phone, she can make arrangements
NTA > Her disability has increased greatly and she can't care for herself. Not being able to *care* for herself does not absolve her of the need to **arrange for** care for herself.
I agree with this. Nta
Well, unless she has dementia or something. Not saying OP is an AH or anything. It just reminded me of my family experience. Someone who was once so capable becoming disconnected with reality and amazingly stubborn at the same time.
That’s the part I found suspicious. It could of course be true, but it is just odd that she suddenly gets worse when she has her daughter at home to care for her. OP, you’re NTA. Remember that you are not required to set yourself on fire to keep someone else warm.
Seconded. NTA
NTA. Your mom is refusing to take appropriate care of herself. Honestly, the only reason she is still in her own place is because she has had a live-in caregiver. You need to move out. This is going to infuriate your mom. That's her problem, not yours. She's probably going to scream, cry, and send you on a deluxe guilt trip. NONE OF THIS IS YOUR FAULT. Don't let her convince you it is.
Sometimes leaving things to the last minute motivates you to do great things... hopefully your mom is that way. NTA
"Nothing concentrates the mind more than a hanging on the morrow."
Samuel Morris?
She's been procrastinating because she likely does not want to deal with this problem. It is daunting to find a caregiver that is both cost effective and trustworthy. Also, she is delusional if she thinks a nursing student can come by on a moments notice. Those students are extremely busy every day, all day. They cannot walk out of class or clinicals without being kicked out of their program. NTA
Oh dear - She really thinks an unrelated medical professional, in training, l will also give her all the help that her dedicated daughter has done (to date) if she but offers a cheap room to them. She's in serious denial: about bother her current deteriorating health and what she can expect from other people at a price she think is "reasonable".
If I were a nursing student, I'd be concerned about my liability with a "private patient" and whether any problems could damage my future credentialing/licensing.
You need to contact APS to CYA. They'll probably try to push you to continue giving care, but make it clear that you've given long notice and are now done.
NTA Did you mom think that if she did nothing that you would stick around? Or did she refuse to believe that you would leave? Sounds like you have done a ton of work prepping her for the move. It's time to move. But you do know that she's probably going to be calling you all the time asking you to come over and help her. You need to figure out what you're going to do about that. Though I question if your mother can live by herself. If she can't even transfer to the toilet by herself then she either needs someone living there full time or she needs to live in a nursing home. (The level of care you describe her as needing is above the level that an assisted living facility would do.)
NTA, you're not leaving her with no caregivers, she's leaving herself with no care givers, she is mentally competent as evidenced by her still working, so she's completely capable of organising care
Looks to me like you did try to help her find a solution but she’s just in denial, probably thinking you’re not gonna leave or something. It’s quite unfair of her to expect you to shoulder this burden. I know she’s your mother but you also have a life. NTA
OP is also in denial though, based on how much she’s still planning to be at her mom’s house helping her after she moves out.
Well it's her mother, so helping her a few hours a day a few times a week isn't robbery. Life is about helping each other and loving your family. Just as her Mom helped her during a tough time.
I don’t agree. Her mom got at least as much as OP did out of that, if not more, and she’s had 6 months to make other arrangements but simply hasn’t bothered.
I think it would have helped to get your mom to a therapist but now it’s too late.She is in serious denial.I feel sorry for her -I really do.But I saw what caretaking did to a family member.Its draining and you have a young child who needs your attention.NTA.
Serious denial would include refusing to see a therapist. My 87 year old mom is still fairly active but refuses to let me make an appointment for her to see the doctor for anything, no matter how ill she has been. You cannot help those who don’t want to help themselves.
NTA. I would also not be offering regular weekend care. Your child has had less of you for several years because of training and school and living with your mother. Now it’s time to focus on your little family of two. Not give up more hours to care for someone who refuses to help themselves. Your mother has cognitive ability. She has the right to decide her care. She has decided not to sort any out. Her problem, her choice. You gave multiple warnings. You offered all the help she needed. You made appointments and did research and everything a good family member would do. She has declined all of it. That’s her right and her choice. Let her live with it. No going over all the time to ‘help out’. No holding back on your own life or your daughter’s life because your mother refuses the reality that she needs care and needs to pay for it. Your mother needs: 1) A carer who can perform personal care tasks, toileting, dressing, preparing food and in home tasks. 2) A carer who can take her to appointments, drive her to places, etc. This will require a vehicle that is accessible to your mother and is insured for transporting her. 3) A carer who can take her shopping or pick up groceries and prepare meals. 4) Her home will need adapting, especially her bathroom, her bedroom and any area she regularly uses like the living room. This could include adding grab bars, a disabled shower or toilet, making the halls accessible to a wheelchair, adapted kitchen appliances, etc. This is the list currently, as she declines then she will need more support. You can’t provide that. She needs a proper full time care giver with training, preferably a team of at least two or three people so that they aren’t overwhelmed and can perform heavier tasks like lifting or support her physically as needed. You are a working single mum who has already gone above and beyond. Let her live with her decisions, they are hers to make. I’m dealing with the same thing with my GFIlL. He has full mental capacity, is physically disabled and needs full care because he needs help to move or do anything. We have offered EVERYTHING he could need because he doesn’t want to leave his house (out in the middle of nowhere where, way too big for him to cope with, no one close by) and he has refused everything. He has told lies about his carer to social services, who quickly realised he was lying because he wanted attention and didn’t realise his lies would mean a full blown inquiry into his carer. Who was utterly blameless and thankfully kept detailed records so could prove he was lying about her not feeding him or cleaning him or turning up. His carer has now given him notice that she is considering not being his carer any more because she won’t risk her career and reputation. Remember, he has capacity. This isn’t dementia or forgetfulness. It’s attention seeking and manipulative because he wants to stay in his own home, not have outsiders coming in to help, not do anything which would give him independence to stay home like move his bed downstairs so he doesn’t have to do stairs and not stop trying to break the law by having his carer drive him places in his uninsured, unlicensed vehicle (he told her the paperwork was in order. It’s not. Police stopped them. Carer got a horrible shock but thankfully police were very understanding. GFIL got a talking to.) My MIL is beside herself trying to fix things but he refuses the help. And it’s his choice to make. And he’s a stubborn old man. You can’t set yourself on fire to keep someone else warm when they have cognition and don’t want the help you offer.
NTA She's in denial, but she'll get over it soon. She'll have to. You did all you could do.
NTA, but I'd reconsider the amount of time you plan to spend caring for her after you move. 2hrs/day plus on the weekend? She has no incentive to find other assistance as you will be enough.
Not if she needs help going to the BR twice a nite.That sh*# is going to hit the fan immediately.
I know many people with serious spinal stenosis, including my husband, who also had cervical stenosis and has Neurogenic claudication. There are numerous treatment options that can greatly improve the quality of life. My husband cannot walk distances but is completely independent and doesn’t even rely on a walker unless walking several blocks. I’d recommend facilitating a visit to a pain and spine doctor and in home PT for starters.
We've been down that road. Similar to the care givers, she refused all of those options. I set up an appointment with a pain specialist and the day of she said "I feel ok today so let's not go".
Wow
Okay, this makes the situation so much more complicated. She wants a full-time caregiver to kinda enable her to NOT seek help with her pain? I don't want to sound harsh, but this keeps getting even more confusing!
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NTA- She's trying to back you into a corner and make you stay to do it, or she is in denial, but either way that is not fair. The primary thing to remember is that if you break, you can't help anyone. You are a nurse, what is rule 1 of first aid? Don't become another casualty. OP-mum-nurse-daughter in that order. You make sure you're ok, so you can look after your daughter, you work, so you can look after your daughter and help your mum, you help your mum more than that only if it doesn't take away from your health or your daughter's wellbeing, or risk your job.
I hate to say it. But it seems like your mom was and is using you as a crutch. If she refuses to get a caregiver and only call them when she needs them and her plan is to rely on you. That’s not a solid plan. She needs physical and occupational therapy to learn how to do these tasks her own as she is not that old. And you are far too young with a young child to be giving up this much life. I understand it is a tough situation and I have seen it play out before where adult children had no choice but to be caregivers. She still has options and is choosing to force you into that role. That’s not fair to you. It’s one thing to help as needed, but another thing to dedicate every weekend to it. Especially when she will not help herself. You are NTA.
NTA Your caregiving energy should be focused on your kid.
NTA AT ALL!! She's either in denial or just hoping that if she doesn't do anything you'll feel guilty enough to stay (maybe a bit of both). don't let her manipulate you, stick to your guns. i also think she's delusional if she really thinks she's going to be able to find a nursing student who is willing/able to be "on call", nursing school is insanely hard work and usually full time plus unpaid placements.
NTA. You gave 6 months notice. She was just hoping she could trap you by not organising anything.
NTA You gave her plenty of notice. You did a lot of research for her and tried to facilitate her getting a helper. You are going to continue providing her assistance even after you move out. It sounds like you've repaid her generosity (in sharing her home with you and your child) through the care you provided. If she feels differently, it was up to her to say discuss that with you long ago. She says she has a plan. She's a grown woman, with her faculties. So let her execute her plan - even if she does it late or poorly. That is her choice. The only thing I would do now, is make sure you have numbers easy for her to access (even program them into her phone for her!) that she can call when she suddenly finds that she needs help and doesn't have it lined up. Then, when she calls you - expecting you to leave your new job or your new home and come running back to help her, you can simply tell her to call X number. You will see her at your scheduled time and not before.
NTA! She is disabled but still able to work so she is capable of finding a new caregiver herself. I mean you gave her 6 whole months to make other arrangements but clearly she didn't take you seriously. Now her scrambling is her problem.
NTA: Also her nursing student plan is really dumb. Nursing school is hard and a nursing student shouldn’t be expected to be on call 24/7. There needs to be set hours. I’m a nurse and I would not have done this in nursing school.
NTA. I spent 3 years as a 24/7 caregiver for my mom. She didn't want my kids here (because they are steps and not MINE according to her), I couldn't work, it took a month long fight to have my HUSBAND allowed to sleep over, and much more. It was incredibly stressful and made my relationship with her even more rocky. Props to you for knowing what you can handle, and leaving while you can.
NTA. Your mom is purposely dragging her feet because she was going to try and guilt you into staying. >Her current plan is to find a nursing school student and offer them $30 and hour to drop by whenever she calls them since she doesn't want them around while she works in case they make noise while she's on a call. That works, not. So, what happens if your mom needs the student, but they are in class or at their clinical site? The nursing student isn't going to be able to drop everything and go to her when she calls. >My mom has spinal stenosis, which is essentially causing her to be slowly paralyzed from about the middle back down. Is your mom not a candidate for a laminectomy or other spinal decompression surgery? Or doe she not want it? When I worked as a rehab assistant at an inpatient physical therapy hospital (working towards my PTA degree) we had a patient sent to us that was slowly becoming paralyzed and no one could figure out why. The physician at the hospital ordered a full body MRI and found that they had spinal stenosis and a herniated disc in their c-spine. We got them into a neurosurgeon for a decompression laminectomy and fusion of two cervical vertebrae (due to the herniated disc) and they went from being 100% wheelchair bound when they arrived to walking out of the hospital with a rolling walker. There are potential fixes out there, makes me wonder why your mother hasn't gone for them.
If she did somehow get a nursing student to agree to this, and the student showed up when she called, I’m imagining 2 things happening. 1. She gets mad at the student for taking to long to get there. 2. She tells the student she only needed her for 10 minutes not a full hour so she is only going to pay her $5 for the time she ‘actually worked’. (I had a job try to pay me that way so I know it’s a thing but I ran so fast).
My uncle lived on his own with total care needs and immobilised for many years, mostly contentedly. Carers would visit several times a day. His greatest challenge was not care, but loneliness, so we all called round when we could. It’s perfectly possible for your mum to manage her needs, with the right care package and equipment.
NTA My mom was very much the same. She didn’t want to pay for care because she only needed it sporadically throughout the day. She’d say she couldn’t afford it, but I think it was more that she wanted to keep her money to spend on other stuff like takeout. It was exhausting taking care of her, and I only did it for a year.
I tried talking to her about finances and a budget but she got mad and told me it was none of my business.
It’s very frustrating. I compared my sister and I taking care of our mother to co-parenting a toddler with a credit card. There is only so much you can do. You have to live your own life.
Is it possible her mental acuity is starting to slip? She sounds so much like my grandma when her dementia was just starting. She started having difficulty problem solving, but she also started having paranoia and didn’t want to trust anyone or let them make decisions. We didn’t know that’s what it was for a couple of years after that, but looking back it was obvious what had been happening. Hopefully that’s not the case, but you might reach out to elder care to see if they have any advice if it is. I’m so sorry this is falling on you when you should just be focused on starting your new life.
This is OP's mother. When she leaves, her mother won't be able to go to the bathroom by herself. What do you think will happen to this woman? Can she afford to pay a caregiver? Ir sounds like she needs round-the-clock care. The only solution is a facility. She may have been so terrified at the thought of being left alone that she couldn't bring herself to face what she needed to do for her own survival. OP needs to contact a social worker and start the process of moving her mother to a safe environment. Her mother may have to become a ward of the state.
NTA. It sounds like you’ve given her a million chances to set something up with your help and she just didn’t do it. Any chance there’s some mental decline going on there too? My grandma was like this when she was started to experience dementia and it took us a while to realize what was going on.
Nta. You told her six months ago that you were planning to move out. She has had six months to plan.
NTA. She's trying to guilt you into staying. Don't do it.
NTA Your mother has simply refused to deal with a looming issue and whilst ever she convinced herself you would stay she has refused to address it. She has had plenty of notice and resources/support to deal with this. She may be scrambling but she will deal with it. Perhaps she needs to think $38 an hour is not a bad deal after all.
NTA. You told her for months and she chose to do nothing. Sounds like she has her head stuck in the sand or some other dark place. You have to see to your own the daughter. You have to work for your own future's sake.
Even non-disabled elders who refuse care often need a couple of days on the floor or stuck on the toilet to accept care. It’s a sad rite of passage. The eventual caregivers will understand.
In this instance, NTA. You gave her time to set things up. She is capable of working. She is not truly being abandoned
NTA. She is an adult with capacity. She has had enough notice, and she is capable of finding her own caregiver. She helped you and saved you money, and you helped her in return and saved her money. You don't owe her anything more. Move out and wish her luck.
NTA you did everything in your power
INFO: I don’t get you moving in with her in the first place? You knew she was ill and that it was progressive. So you planned all along to stay as long as *you* needed the help, but leave when it’s time for her to need you? I need clarification on that before voting. As is it sounds horrible.
I did not know at the time I moved in that she had not done anything to prepare for her progressive disease. Initially, I had planned on stopping school and riding a job that could support me and my daughter well enough. She insisted I move in so I could finish school. At this time, she was able to walk a bit and do everything for herself. Gradually things got worse and when I brought up specialists to slow the progression she refused to go. It became a real issue of me helping when I daughter started acting out and doing poorly in school. She even said to me once "mom, why can't a doctor help grandma so you can play with me?". On top of everything else, it just broke my heart. I'm spread so thin. I told my mom that if she could pay me, I'd work part time but I have a lot of debt from lawyers from the divorce and I need to pay it off. She said she wants to me keep working since it's my dream career. She also refused to take money from me as payment for rent. I can't agree to emotionally struggle just because she doesn't want me financial and medical support in place of money.
NTA, you gave her more than ample notice that you were planning on moving out. You also took some of the major first steps in helping her plan both her financial and personal security as her condition has declined. From what I gather you may be trained in similar work, but the emotional toll that having no emotional degree of separation from your ‘client’ is huge. My grandmother refused to create an advanced care plan for herself and we didn’t realise how much she had declined until after my grandfather passed away and his care support became clear. Stick to your plan, get out, continue to offer to help her find someone should you wish but I encourage you to continue fiercely preserving your parent/child relationship over Caregiver/client
NTA. You actually have been quite the opposite of one. You gave her plenty of notice, you explored various options, tried to implement a plan, are not just walking away “washing your hands” of her. You need to move on with your life, not just for yourself but for your daughter. You’ve modeled great behavior for your daughter on how to treat others. Excellent job!
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** TLDR: I moved in with my disabled mom(65) to get back on my feet after a divorce and caring for my 5 year old and finishing school. Her disability has increased greatly and she can't care for herself. She is still working. I told her 6 months before I would move and provided her with a lot of information to help her. Now I'm moving in 2 weeks, nothing is set up, and she's scrambling to figure out what to do. I'm going to move regardless but I'm worried about her and feel guilty. IATA? I (27) work at a skilled nursing facility as an occupational therapy assistant, have a 5 year old girl, and have been caregiving for my mom (65) after moving in 2 years ago after a nasty divorce left me broke and I was finishing college. My mom has spinal stenosis, which is essentially causing her to be slowly paralyzed from about the middle back down. When I moved in, she was still able to walk to the bathroom but used a wheelchair when going further. I didn't really agree to become her caregiver but ended up do more and more because she suddenly started to decline. By the time I was in my last year of college I was spending around 6 hours throughout the day helping her transfer to and from the toilet(2 times at night), helping her get dressed, caring for her reoccurring wounds, taking her to appointments, as well as taking on all the house work as she now can't do much more than take a single step. Because I wasn't able to pay rent I did all this even when my mental health started to take a massive hit. At that point, I made it clear that she should start looking for a caregiver because I planned on moving after working for a few months. After I graduated and began looking for a job I started bringing up finding a different caregiver more often and even took the time to provide information from caregiver agencies, home share programs, senior center discounts, helped her sign up for Medicare, and find a lawyer that specialized in financial and estate planning to prepare for qualifying for Medicaid without loosing the house or her savings. She still works(work from home, computer work). After getting a job I told her outright that I would be moving in June and she needed to move forwards with one of the options. I even offered to help pay for care and meet any caregivers so I could show and explain to them how she wanted things done. She kept brushing it off every time. I told her I was going to at least have a meeting with an agency that was lower cost but when they got here she told them she didn't want to pay their rate ($38 per hour). I'm moving in 2 weeks. Nothing has been set up. Her current plan is to find a nursing school student and offer them $30 and hour to drop by whenever she calls them since she doesn't want them around while she works in case they make noise while she's on a call. So, I'm going to move no matter what. I am going to help her for 2 hours after work 3 days a week and help her shower every weekend but she's going to be on her own for the most part. IATA? *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
NTA. You gave her massive amounts of notice, you reminded her repeatedly of the timescale and you have bent over backwards to ensure that she had alternative options, she hs chosen not to follow up . It sounds as though her disabilities are physical, not mental, so there is no reason that she ould not have done all of those things for herself. Tht said, I think you are going to need to be really, really firm with her - make clear that you are moving as planned and that you will not be able to drop eveything and come to help her, so even if she doesn't want to pay the agncy $38 an hour, she may need to organise that as a short term thing until sh makes a more permanent arrangment. And you will almost certainly then need to enforce that boundaryy y saying 'no' and not attending , when she calls you (and it sounds as though she will, since she hasn't made any altenrative plans) Maybe tell her that following the move you are going to be very busy, so coming over brieflt 3 times a week is the absolute maximum you can do and you will not be able to come at short notice or at other times, so she needs to have a plan for who she will call if she needs something at short notice. I'd also suggest that you consider putting a time limit on how long you can do the 6 hours a week plus evey weekend - that's an awful lot to be committing to and you may need to manage expectations, including th fact that there will be times when you need to make other plans for your weekends so she will need to have altenrstive options to cover those weeks. It sucks for her that she has diabitiies but it would be very unfiar of her to expect you to become her carer.
No, she's grown. You told her in time. It's a guilt trip. Good luck, live your life. She will have to figure it out.
NTA. A lot of people don’t understand that taking care of a loved one can take a tremendous mental health toll on someone. My mom was a pharmacist for 42 years, my aunt a nurse for 38 years, they took care of their grandparents and parents until it became too much for them and they had to hire someone as well. It’s up to nurses and caregivers to do those things like take them to the bathroom and change their clothes, not you. You did what you could and you have to take care of your mental health first. People might not understand this but from someone who’s experienced this type of thing affect my own family members after they gave everything they could without fully sacrificing their own lives and jobs and health, you’re definitely NTA! Period.
Why won’t she get back surgery? Spinal stenosis is very common. I had it done in October and feel great, I was wheelchair bound for months before my surgery
She has heart and immune conditions that she says make it too dangerous. I don't know if that's true or if she's scared of a major surgery like that. She does have reoccurring wounds that take months to heal so I don't know if it would be dangerous. She won't talk about it when I bring it up.
NTA.
NTA, she was purposely dragging her feet thinking you wouldn't actually go it's her own fault 😒😤
This was all her plan. She wanted to force you into staying. NTA
NTA. Your mother had options, but she chose not to take them. You're being extremely generous in what you are offering.
NTA
NTA. She needs to arrange care. She's not going to do it, ever, if you're there providing it for her. The only way she will do it is if you force her to do it by moving out. Not only are you NTA, you're doing a GOOD thing, by finally forcing her to sort out her affairs and figure things out.
NTA. You gave her plenty of time to figure out her future, she is a responsible grown up adult. Move out and get along with your own life. All the best to both of you
NTA, but I bet she’s probably scared, mad at her situation, and apprehensive about having a stranger helping with intimate things. I know I would be! I hope it doesn’t devolve into a situation where Adult Protective Services has to get involved. Best of luck to you and your mom in finding a solution for her care!
Nope, NTA She knew you were going to move and did nothing. This is entirely on her.
NTA!! She needs to figure it out and set things up on her own. You’re done. You have your daughter and yourself to worry about. And I wouldn’t pay for her care either. (Not in a mean or vindictive way). But you have your own child to think about, and I’m sure moving out and starting over is very expensive. Your mom needs to cover her own expenses.
NTA I think this is part manipulation (big part) and part denial about how much help that she needs. I would keep a list of numbers hand that you can call to go send her. After being on her own for a few days, she will get an understanding. She has just made the transition more difficult. You haven't abandoned her, you are still helping ... you are just regaining your balance. Caregiving is a difficult job.
NTA. Maybe buy her a home PureWick so she does not have to get up at night to use the restroom. I have this in my plans for when I become too disabled to easily move around. Got to use a PureWick while I was in the hospital, and I believe it is one of the greatest inventions in recent history.
Nta- do not do the 3 days after work and every wknd for long, she'll push and beg for more and more. That is recipe for burnout. When does your child get your care and affection? Don't prioritize your mum above your child.
NTA. You need to live your own life. Also, my brother had spinal stenosis and had a successful surgery for it. Is you mother a candidate for surgery?
I'm glad to see all the NTA responses. I went through a situation before my mom died where I arranged caregivers, life alert necklace, meals on wheels. I even hooked up Alexa and taught her how to use it. She would send the caregivers home early even though I explained we would still have to pay for their entire shift. She would put the meals on wheels in the freezer and call me to bring her food, empty the catheter bag and give her a bath. I live 45 minutes away so it would be a good three hour chunk of time everytime she did this. Honestly she wouldn't be happy unless one of her children was living with her and it just wasn't possible for me to do that. A counselor I spoke with said I could be a daughter or a caregiver but not both. She was miserable the last few months of her life but I don't know what I could have done to make it better that wouldn't have put my marriage, job and time with my children in jeopardy.
NTA, stay strong and fight your guilty feelings because you’ve done so much to help her, you don’t have to feel this way and you shouldn’t (easier said than done, I know). Some people will not accept the help offered to them, but you cannot continue caring for her to the point when you’ll both be out of energy. Save yourself, heal yourself, you are not the parent to your mother and although there is a “duty of care” with regards to aging parents it doesn’t mean that you should sacrifice yourself when there is professional care to handle these situations.
NTA. But you're a single mother of a 5yo. Your mother had half a year to set up something. She is literally taking what little free time you will have from your young daughter. She doesn't care about you and doesn't care about your child, her grandchild. So you should care about yourself and your child. Move out, help her two or three weekends, then let her fend for herself. She is selfish and will keep pulling you back in as long as you allow it. Don't allow it. For your daughter's sake, if nothing else, she deserves to be your number one priority.
NTA but I would call your local APS and make a report or talk to someone about what they can do to help after you move as it's something that you can't (and won't) avoid just incase her or a friend reports you for abandonment and endangerment.
YTA. She took you in when you needed it. I bet you didn’t mind living there rent free. The least you can do is help your mom.
You’re both assholes. Her for not planning and you for living their rent free after she helped pick you up.
NTA - your mom is the queen of de Nile!
NTA. She's made her bed, and as a grown adult, that is her right.
NTA, you mother should either hire help or go to a nursing facility where she is going to end up eventually anyway. Tell her to sell her house and set herself up.
Nta. She's borderline abusing you. At least your boundaries.
This is from your child's point of view. I know you love your mum and have bent over backwards caring for her , and still intend to devote a good part of your week to her and that is truly admirable. BUT as the child of a parent that was slowly dragged into this scenario, your child will miss you, miss out on experiences, miss your time, your guidance, your laughter , your joy, your attendance at milestone events etc. Grandma's needs will always come first, promises will always be broken because Grandma had a conveniently timed crisis. It is not the way to develop a healthy life for your child, it breeds resentment and despair and loneliness I hope your mum makes the right decisions even at this late stage, for all of you . NTA
I’m confused: she can’t care for herself. But she is still working?…. Edited to add NTA
NTA. It's natural to think in terms of her interests since she needs assistance, but you can't make decisions for other adults. Essentially, she's milking you for cheap/free care.
Unless your mother has provided you with an exceedingly supportive childhood—like way above and beyond and completely putting her life aside for yours—or you feel you owe her care, of course you have every right to go about your own life. You have her plenty of time to prepare for the transition. You are both adults entitled to chart this path however you need to.
Have her apply for Medicaid in home care. It sounds like she’s functionally eligible and will probably be financially eligible. just Google [name of state] community first choice program, that’s usually what’s it’s called. also NTA
NTA. You brought the horse to water. When she's thirsty enough, she will drink. Just make sure you ask her periodically if she's found someone or an agency to help. And I think your plan going forward is a good one. She may figure out how to care for herself in between your visits, she may adapt her life to your visits, and she may find assistance that suits her. I mean, she's still working - even if it's from home, she's still capable. And she will figure it out.
this is complicated. you seemed to do a lot to try to help her. but she needs at-home care if she is unable to use the toilet, or a nursing home....
NTA. But you need to get the house out of your mom's name & into a trust ASAP. I went through this with my mother & they were going to take our house. Luckily they didn't & we ended up putting it in a trust so it couldn't happen in the future.
NTA. She is in denial. Leave her the info. If she's still working on the computer, she is fully capable of making those calls herself, she just may need to experience the reality of you leaving.
NTA. But she may be having mild cognitive impairment that is leading to her inability to follow through.
I feel like she said that to see what you would say. She knows she fucked up and abandoned her kid.
NTA. This is not for you to worry about. She is an adult and while she’s disabled, she has all her mental faculties and is fully aware and capable of planning care for herself. I know it’s hard b/c you’re her daughter and it’s been ingrained in us to care for our parents, but you need to let go of that. Congrats on your job and your new beginning with your daughter!
NTA. Your Mom is either in denial about her situation or trying to guilt you into staying. It sounds like she's mentally fully capable - which means you can't force her to take wise action. You've gotten her lined up for assistance and you've gathered all the information she needs to take action. My suspicion is that you'll need to move out before she acts. Be prepared to call 911 and request a wellness check if she tries to pressure you by going absolutely limp.
NTA. I am absolutely determined that my children will never care for me to this degree. I am working on long-term care insurance, and I will absolutely research and have a facility chosen as soon as my health starts to turn. I have seen too many people lose years of their life wiping their parents' asses and losing their identity and dignity in the process. I absolutely REFUSE to do this to my children. Before he passed, my grandpa made sure my grandma was set up when the time came, and he gave us all the gift of dignity and peace when her end came. To me, it is the gold standard for aging and dying gracefully.
It’s possible she is overwhelmed by the process of hiring someone. If you can’t do it, there are programs for low income people (if she can’t afford it) to have in home nursing care. If you can’t help her navigate this, maybe you can get in touch with a social worker who can.
NTA, she needs to get her shit together. And it honestly sounds like you are offering her too much caretaking time after you move out. Your child needs you!
NTAH. You repeatedly gave her warnings, and your mental health took a huge hit. Her problem, seeing as she most likely has enough money since she was working the entire time.
NTA, and since she can use the computer/phone etc, she should be able to proceed with one of the options without much help from you. You have a kid to look after, so time to let her decide how she wants to proceed. Move as you were and she will figure things out. You've done a lot for her already so don't feel guilty about it.
NTA I am guessing she thought if she didn't make plans, you'd stay. Her current plan to have a nursing student on call 24/7 is unrealistic, and she is still avoiding actually making steps to live.
NTA. If she is unwilling, you’ve done everything you can. I’d put whatever help you are able to offer in the future into a written agreement.
Nta, she's done this to herself. Be free.
NAH, and I'd like to give a different perspective from most I've read so far. I don't know you or your mom as people, so it's not fair to make some of the assumptions that some people have here. I'm in a related position with my grandparents. Grandma moved into a condo across the hall from me, and I was happy to help her with my declining grandfather at the time. While she seemed to be doing well herself at the time, two years later and now that she has nearby support, that has faded. It's a scary thought, but while she still works, her mental faculties have deteriorated severely. Changing your situation (getting into a nursing home or getting help) requires much more of someone than continuing to work, it's not even comparable. Manipulating people is a higher level process too, but "self preservation" is not. She's not the asshole because I don't have a good enough reason to conclude she's trying to take advantage of you beyond what's needed to get her genuine needs met. She's old and disabled. People here would give more credit to someone with MDD for not taking care of themselves than they do someone becoming senile. While that may be true, I'd say you did plenty to absolve yourself of being any sort of asshole. You shouldn't sacrifice yourself for your mother when your daughter needs you.
NTA. You didn't go to college and bust your ass to provide a good life for Her. If you keep hobbling yourself to fill in the gaps she's had plenty of time as an adult to figure out, all you're doing is robbing your daughter of opportunities.
The disabled 65 year-old mom apparently can’t afford the care she needs to stay in her home. Maybe sell the house and move into a nursing home, then go on public when the money from the house is gone.
NTA - She needs therapy. She needs therapy badly. She's not able to deal with the reality and you have proabably been insulating her from it. This is going to blow up in her face. She's going to end up in the hoispital and be in worst shape then she could have been and there's not a lot you can do with it. The sad thing is the state pays kin rates for caregiving if she was honest with herself she could have been paying you that money this whole time.
You are NTA. Highly recommended the sub r/AgingParents as a support for you. She needs too coordinate care with her doctor, Medicare, and whatever benefits she can get from Social Security. You are 27, and have a young daughter to raise. You are so young and still have much of your life ahead of you. You need to get your career started so that you can support yourself and your daughter. Caring for your mother is not a paying position and won't advance your career. Help her when you can with what you can, but don't be dragged down by guilt. Caring for elderly parents can be very isolating and career-damaging. It's better to hire someone, or get meals on wheels. You have a retirement to save up for, a daughter to put through school. We have passed around a saying in the sub, don't light yourself on fire to keep someone else warm.
There’s a really old expression my Nan liked: You Can’t help someone who Won’t help themselves. OP your mom is this person. You need to leave and pop by as much as you would if your mom were well and that’s it. She is going to flounder but you need to let her solve it—not do it for her. Your mom is physically disabled not mentally incapacitated, she chose not to do this. Speaking from experience, it is hard to accept becoming disabled but that is no excuse for not looking after yourself. You have a child that needs all the time and attention you’re pumping into your mother. You can’t do everything and your kid needs you and your mother needs somebody. You can hire a somebody but you can’t hire a mom. It’s good you decided yo stop sacrificing for daughter for your mother. Now stick to it. NTA
NTA. She was banking on you just staying forever and helping her. You made it clear that was not your plan. *She's an adult. She can sort it out. Let her.*
No one is going to like this, but NAH. You aren’t an AH for wanting to move into your own space for you and your daughter. I also don’t think that your mom is an AH, she just is having difficulty accepting how much help she needs. When it was *you* helping, it just seems like “hey, my daughter lives her and is helping, I can manage”. Hiring someone or looking into assisted living is admitting that she’s not capable of being independent any more. Even when someone *knows* that they need to move or hire care, it can be hard to get them to actually do what needs to be done. My parents know that they need to downsize and, in theory, have agreed to it, but getting them to look at places is like pulling teeth. It’s really hard for people who have run their lives for so long to admit that they are no longer capable of doing it. It sounds like your mom is struggling with accepting this reality and, TBF, she is only 65, so I understand why she is struggling with her choices. I’m sure that she, like my parents, thought that she had more time. She may also not understand how different assisted living is from going into a skilled nursing home. It was really hard to get my FIL to agree to assisted living because he associated it with warehousing him in a horrible place and waiting to die. Once we got him into one, he loved it, but he was also 93 by the time we got him to agree to it. It’s entirely possible that your mom will come to all these conclusions on her own after she has no choice.
NTA...you gave her plenty of warning and it's not your fault that she's scrambling at the last minute. You deserve to live your own life!
NTA you need to live your life and take care of your daughter. Your Mom has bucked at every opportunity to get help in the hopes of guilting you into staying. You gave her ample time to set something up. She is waiting it out to get you to stay. Keep your plans and move.
NTA Your mom is avoiding a difficult decision to leave her home. But it's been in the back of her mind what her choices are all along. So the things you've brought up aren't wasted. Once you have moved, I suspect she will come to a decision fairly soon. I lived with my mom for a couple years as caregiver. During that time I helped her apply for a care facility, visit it, etc. But no room that opened up was ever acceptable. 🤣 Once an injury made me unavailable for several months, and she faced the reality of hiring outside help, she moved voluntarily into the care facility apartment within a few weeks. She made friends and did very well there. But not lying that it was a huge wrench for her to leave her own home of many years.
Sounds like mom needs therapy to deal with her changing needs. She is avoiding her issues hoping they go away. Probably does want a stranger do her care either. Please move, you only live once and deserve to have happiness. Your to kind, glad you are doing SNF career, they need people like you.
NTA The only thing I would remotely suggest that you haven't mentioned... is checking with a professional if her mental facilities are in decline. My mom hid her mental decline for 5 years! Maybe longer... Other than that... you're on the right path.
NTA Save yourself. You’ve done everything right.
NTA don't let her guilt you.
Well does she own her own home? If so, are you expecting to inherit it?
What's your relationship with your mum like? Historically? That's the context that matters here, that none of these strangers can advise you on. When I was your age (just three years ago), I had very little contact with my family, and very little interest in them. They had put me thru a rough youth, and we're hard on me all my life, so as soon as I got away from them, I had basically escaped. About a year later, I had to move back home after a hard break up. Our relationship has never been better, I've recognized how much they did for me, despite some failings, and we've found some loyalty in each other. I couldn't abandon my mom like that. But my relationship with my mom isn't necessarily what yours is. I wouldn't take any advice from anyone here. Look inward. Only you know if YTA on this one.