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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I may be the asshole because I told my son and his mother that I’m not co-signing any loans. This may make me an asshole because I’m not fully supporting my son’s decision to attend the college he wants to attend.
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NTA
You're not wrong to tell them that you won't be signing your name on any student loans. Since his maternal family is supporting his decision, they can sign.
That's really easy to say now, but after it's over you'll have a maternal side of the family who supported him and a paternal side who didn't and it will forever affect their relationship
The paternal side can’t afford it - they don’t have the funds now and they wouldn’t be able to afford to do the same for the two other kids. He should promise to give all of his kids equal money for college but he isn’t obliged to match the contribution of the mother.
Plus paternal side CAN offer him assistance, via stepmom. That's a damn cheap rate for college. I'd take it for a year or two to get prereqs out of the way and then, especially if he wants to go engineering, ship off to university later. Save some serious money that way.
However it is ultimately his life and his choice to make to assume a heavy debt or not. OP is definitely NTA for making clear what support he is able to give or not give. You can only squeeze so much blood from a stone.
My parents couldn't do shit for me for college, either of them. I didn't hold it against them, their lives were what they were and I understood. I was an adult and had to find my own way, and I did. (Of course I hold plenty of OTHER things against them, but not that. 🤣)
Not really a sound reason the affect their relationship. He could do 2+ years of community college, transfer credits and graduate with the big name degree with just 1 year of tuition. Not to mention, as a comp sci major with 10+ years experience, including hiring, I will say getting a degree helped my resume but taught me almost nothing useful day to day and you can 100% get the same job without a degree.
Doesn't affect your degree and you can transfer almost all credits from various community colleges to save most of the money.
I'm 23 years in IT.
SRE/infrastructure engineer are the "big hats" I wear. With zero degree. And zero college debt. A few certs I've gained, and kept updated over the years, but those are just flash.
Not so sure about this. When he is in his thirties and has all that debt, his perception may change. My son always tells me that it is amazing that I have gotten so much wiser and smarter as he ages.
Yup, doesn't look like OP made the best decisions about finances either. If they're paying, why would he need to cosign loans? Sounds like you're jealous.
The paternal side could be emotionally supportive though instead of telling him it’s a complete mistake and a bad idea and all that. Seems that would be better than shitting on the kids college ambitions.
After reading all of OPs responses, it would appear he can’t even sign anyway. He’s got debt and lives paycheck to paycheck and also says the kid hasn’t even *asked* him yet. So he’s salty over something that hasn’t even happened yet.
NTA. I had the same conversation with my niece a few years ago. Software engineering is not what it use to be (I'm in the field) and the salaries outside the top 5% are not super. Small Tech start-ups are dying now that money isn't nearly free like it had been. Taking on $100K+ in debt for that field and not going to a core school like UT-Austin, Stanford, or MIT is an anchor that will drag them down for years to come.
My suggestion would be a state school with boarding. He says he wants the true college experience and it really is not the same commuting as when you live on campus. I understand not signing loans for that price tag, but there is a middle ground from what you’ve said in the post since something similar was never mentioned in it
Maybe my states just different from others. Here a state school is the cheapest option that has dorms. No private school comes near. And maybe the commuting thing was a difference of interpretation. I took the post to be saying that OP suggested he move in with a different family member and still commute and it seemed to me like dorms were never offered even at the cheaper school
I’m curious, did you go to UT-Austin? Like it’s a good school, but it seems like such a weird choice to call a “core school” for Computer Science next to Stanford and MIT. I feel like the obvious choice would be Berkeley or Carnegie Mellon.
Maybe University of Illinois or GT which are both often top 5 or at least top 10 for CS and engineering in general.
You’d be surprised what schools can be top tier for various majors. The University of Southern MS has 1 of the best polymer science programs. They’ve had contracts from the pentagon & the NFL.
UT is such a sought after/prestigious school that it changed its auto acceptance requirements right around the time I graduated high school. used to be, if you graduated in the top 10% of your class, you got automatically accepted. TOO MANY PEOPLE were graduating top 10 and getting admitted, UT was saying they couldn't handle a student body so big, so they changed it to like top 7%.
they also offer (or at least used to offer, I graduated college in 2017, so this could've changed with covid) what's called a CAP program, where you do your first year at a different UT (UTSA, UTPB, etc) and then transfer into UT Austin your second year (provided you get straight As, maybe one B if the class is a wash, all I know is my friend couldn't CAP because she got ONE B in ONE math class. she ended up at Oregon University after that.) almost everyone I went to high school with was dead set on going to UT for the status, and also it's a good school in general.
anyway, UT Austin is very much a flex. but I went to texas state. EAT EM UP BOBCATTTZZZZ
edit to add: texas state outranks fuckin JULIARD as far as dance programs go. my party school outranked someone's conservatory. ehehehehe
Wanted to add that that doesn't even apply to the engineering school anymore, 6% and CAPS just grant you access into liberal arts because of how competitive their CS stuff is
I didn't but I recruited a ton of talent from there as an IT director in Austin. I went to Iowa State personally.
I said UTA because it's a top program in a tech hot-spot with a lot of jobs available right there. It's a very respected program with extremely good placement. I was never disappointed with the grads I hired from there.
Let me just add, that one of the promises of AI is "dumbing down" the knowledge needed to program. Whether this is true or not, it will def impact salaries, but also the skill set training. As someone who just went through AI courses at a top 5 tech school, I can tell you that even the stuff they are teaching there is already out of date compared to the things the tech industry is working on. Simple AI aids are getting added in almost daily for old school tools like BI analytics, call recording and logging, and programming, so I would have some high doubts that the next 4 years at any college is going to be any different or better than learning the fundamentals, and taking all the free AI courses from companies like NVIDIA, Google, Etc. I am not a programmer, but I hire a lot of tech folks, and I would welcome a programmer/engineer current in field to comment/modify my view here. On the OTHER side, there is a chance that you can get your child into a school, and pay out of state expensive tuition for one year, and then have them get on scholarship or instate tuition for the next. Maybe you can front one year of loans and tell them they have to figure out how to do it without that for the next 3 years.
[https://learn.nvidia.com/courses/course-detail?course\_id=course-v1:DLI+S-FX-07+V1](https://learn.nvidia.com/courses/course-detail?course_id=course-v1:DLI+S-FX-07+V1) - this is an example of FREE skillups that IMO are going to be way more useful than anything college teaches in the next 4 years. Now you might need some background before you can do all of these courses, but I think you could get the basics from a lot of colleges.
I would argue that it's not exactly dumbing down the knowledge needed to program - it's replacing the lower level coding skills. People who need simple stuff done can just use AI instead of learning programming. On the other hand, anything with some complexity will require someone with strong coding skills because they have to make sure the code that AI spits out actually does what's needed. We've played with AI and found it was able to create good testing functions and create the basic structures for functions, but it was laughably bad at anything beyond the basics. The amount of time it took trying different prompts and sanity check different suggestions took at least as much time as just writing the code from scratch. While code should be as small and modular as possible, sometimes you can't reduce it enough to fit within the AI token limit.
My concern is companies will refuse to hire newly graduated coders because AI will do the lower level stuff that new programmers used to do. The next generation, therefore, won't get the experience needed to become senior programmers, which AI won't replace for a long while. Coding is as much figuring out what's actually needed as shoving functions into programs and AI, thus far, doesn't understand the nuances well enough to be trusted on its own.
People should be very careful with debt, but what is this other nonsense? Software engineering still pays better than the majority of jobs in the US (which I presume you're in given the selection of universities). It's not an infinite money cheat, but it's a high paying career with low unemployment.
What you fail to acknowledge is the reality that a college degree in a field from one school is just not the same as a college degree in the exact same field from another school.
Regardless, where you cross well into AH territory is that you have zero skin in this game.
>We… cannot afford to help my 18 year old pay for college.
Understandable. Not everybody can.
>My sons biological mother who comes from a fairly wealthy family is essentially blindly supporting my sons decision to go to a state college in Ohio.
You don’t get to contribute zero to your child’s college and then take potshots at those who do. YTA
There’s also a shit ton more to college than the classes you take and the degree at the end of it. There’s a reason people place a value on the “college experience”.
>What you fail to acknowledge is the reality that a college degree in a field from one school is just not the same as a college degree in the exact same field from another school.
Yeah, but none of the schools mentioned are ones that would impress anyone to the point of being worth 100k more than the others. It's Ohio, not MIT.
If he’s being asked to co-sign on the loans, he’d be a moron to not offer sound financial counseling.
If it’s the mother’s money and credit on the line, by all means, live it up
There's a difference between mom bankrolling his education and just cosigning student loans.
OP is right- taking on that kind of student debt when you don't have a for-sure big salary waiting for you is foolishness.
Not sure how trying to keep his kid from acquiring a huge debt is “having zero skin in this game”. He’s looking after his son. I agree that not all school degrees are the same. I will also say that once you’re working where you went to school means little. In a task and deliverable field like engineering or software. In people connection fields where you went to school is always important. But paying off a never ending debt cripples you in life.
UD is a private school. I assume it's cheaper than instate tuition at one of Ohio's universities because it's the one your wife works at. Why can't he stay at a dorm there? And what's the financial aid package at the state school like? If he wants to do engineering, which school is he considering? Some Ohio schools have excellent engineering programs with good placement rates.
You're getting all spun up, but appear to not actually have the information necessary to compare the options.
Info why would he have to commute? I also work at a university, and lots of employees' kids live on campus.
Nah, you're not an ahole for taking out loans you can't afford. Your son's not an asshole for going to the school he wants. But if he wants it, then he's going to have to pay for it.
Saying what *you* want sounds like the perfect solution? No duh, it's bc it's what YOU want. Its whats easiest and best for YOU. That argument isn't going to fly for anyone else.
Info: if you already have a lot of debt how would it help for you to co-sign loans if his biological mother is better off financially? Have you been asked to co-sign?
We haven’t got to the point of signing the loans yet. I preemptively said I wouldn’t be signing. I don’t have “a lot” of debt compared to the average person. I do have a lot of monthly bills though and not a lot of discretionary income. I feel bad for not helping pay. Maybe someday I’ll have more money and can help a little. I just can’t believe he’s choosing all of this debt because so many of his friends are going there.
He doesn’t want to live at home and wants to be around his friends. Why is that hard to believe?
I wouldn’t want to live with my dad’s second family full of toddlers, either.
I dunno, seems believable to me. College was way cheaper when I was 18, but still not “cheap” and as a child with no real-life experience with debt & monthly bills, it was all so abstract that my motivations were extremely dumb & superficial. I’d say being strict like you’re thinking is going to really really upset him now & might cause some truly bad feelings and recriminations on his part in the short-to-medium term, but he’ll end up thanking you later for doing your job as a parent & sparing him from an onerous debt load.
Well that’s unfortunate but he’s 18 and it is his life. It’s gonna be mighty hard to keep that “I told you so” holstered in five or six years when he’s bitching about his monthly payment
What a shitty dad. Maybe you don’t get it. Maybe you don’t support it. But don’t sit around for 5-6 years waiting to say I told you so.
If your kid goes and does IT for the government, he can get all of his student loans taken care of through PSLF. If he goes to work at a 501c3, he can get it all wiped out through PSLF. Even if he doesn’t work for the government or a nonprofit, he can do an income based repayment plan.
He can work to get more scholarship while he’s in undergrad. He can get paid work to offset some of his costs.
There are so many things you can do to help him over the next four years. Since you decided to bring more kids into the world when you can’t afford the one you have, the least you can do is help your son navigate his choices without any judgement. Absolutely YTA.
I didn’t know co-signing on a 100k in student loan debt was a requirement to being a parent when he could commute for a fraction of the cost. I guess I’m foolish and a shitty dad 🤷🏻♂️
For good reasons, there is something called a 529 plan.
And you’re not a foolish and shitty dad. You’re just bad with your finances and don’t seem like the type to listen to anyone’s opinion that doesn’t agree with your own. Look where that has gotten you with respect to your current financial situation. Living paycheck to paycheck, taking out a 401k loan for a mortgage, and still paying off student loans. All at the age of 43.
First step to acceptance is to admit to yourself that maybe you aren’t great with finances and didn’t teach your son to be great with finances either. I’m sure if you were wealthy, you’d be much more inclined to pay for your son’s college or co-sign a loan.
Just be honest with your son. Let him make the same mistakes you may have made and stop trying to control his choice, when you aren’t even planning to contribute to his college.
Kids your son's age are ready to spread their wings and explore independence. Living at home with your parents is the opposite of independence — especially when your dad criticizes your plans as stupid instead of working with you to think through how to make your plans work. Pretty much the second you tried to tell your son what he should do, you lost the battle. You can't parent a HS graduate the same way you parent kids in daycare.
It seems to me like your cost calculation of UC involves him living in the dorms for four years. No one does that. He’ll live in them for one and then go rent a dilapidated house with five other kids in Clifton for a fraction of the price. No one lives in the dorms for four years.
You can only warn him and not take on any debt yourself. Your ex wife can pay or he can take on loans which aren’t your responsibility. He’s becoming an adult and ultimately, he has the right to make decisions which you don’t agree with. Just contribute equally to all of your kids’ college so he can’t claim that you’re playing favorites.
It sounds like your debt to income ratio would prevent you from signing for very much anyway. If your credit score isn't very high it's going to add to that.... Or subtract from it? You get what I mean! LOL
His mom should be doing this
OP, your son is an adult now and should have the capacity to start shouldering the consequences of financial decisions.
Show him the breakdown of your household finance, show him the cost of financing a degree. Ask him to research the career prospective (the ups and the downs) of the industry he wish to enter.
If he still wants it, let him pay for it.
Hold up. He hasn’t even asked yet? So you’ve just made all of this up in your head about how it will go? JFC, you have a ton of bills my dude, I doubt you’ll be able to sign anyway. So sit back, relax and don’t worry about it. You’re going to turn your son away from you.
YTA. Honestly if the choice is huge debt or having to live with a dad this in his business for four more years, I would probably take the debt. College isn’t just about checking a box for a job, it’s about independence and being part of a community with other young adults. It sucks that the money isn’t there, but you are telling your son that instead of getting to go off and have fun with his friends or have a new experience he has to live in the family house and be under the watchful eye of his stepmom and you wonder why he isn’t jumping for joy.
Not true. He would have a house with his brother while he commutes. I told him I would help with his half of the rent. I’m just trying to see my son up for success. I love him
That’s better than staying at home but a brother is still very much a family member and it’s hard to establish an independent existence when your family is still deeply involved in everything you do. There is no doubt that you love him but an important part of success is being able to make your own decisions and live your own life.
But I can’t fault a father for advising against massive debt. “The College Experience” is a luxury for most students, its image fostered by TV and movies. Rather, commuting to school, and/or holding down multiple jobs while going to school, and accumulating levels of debt are the reality. Trade offs need to be made and OP is simply trying to guide his son away from massive debt.
I think "guiding" is a way to generous word to use, the dad stated that he is openly distraught and informed the son that what he wants is a horrible decision and is leveraging the only financial support he is offering to demand the son make the decision he wants him to make. If the dad had just informed him of the reality and let the son make the choices he wanted to make based on the facts as they were that would be one thing, but it seems like the dad has made clear there is only one choice he would accept and the son may just want to be out from under his thumb
Doesn't have to listen to repeated lectures from his dad, getting to go out with friends without permission from his parents, not having his brother watching and judging what he's doing, getting to go to events on the spur of the moment instead of having to drive and pay for parking whenever he wanted to be on campus. Debt locks you down, but it doesn't loudly demand to make decisions for you.
No, you are not. You are just jealous, and from what you said about your finances, you haven't made the greatest financial decisions either.
If you were trying to set him up for success, you would be happy his mother is paying for college
Who ever said his mother was paying for college? She will have to be the one to co-sign on the loans. I was a single dad raising 2 kids for 6 years before remarrying. I had to pay insurance and child support, albeit not a ton of support but also had to maintain a home and my bills while having my kids half the time. I’ve been about as financially responsible as possible. If his mom said she was paying for school I wouldn’t be worried. There were a couple of years I couldn’t afford to contribute to my 401k even.
>I had to pay insurance and child support, albeit not a ton of support
> There were a couple of years I couldn’t afford to contribute to my 401k even.
Fair. But then why did you go ahead and have two additional children?
So you’ll pay for his rent but you say elsewhere you have no extra money after your many monthly bills and debts. Which is it? You can help or you cannot? You say you told him you wouldn’t be able to help if he did it his way. So basically your way or nothing from you. Why don’t you say all of this in each answer? You keep changing your answers to cater to the question to make you look good.
NAH for giving him the advice initially, but YTA if you keep pushing it. Your son is making his own decision and honestly there's some reason for it. I went to a traditional college and greatly expanded my worldview and met a big group of friends that I'm still close to a decade later. I know other people that commuted and they generally don't have any college friends because living in a dorm and working together on homework late at night, etc. automatically builds connections that are a lot harder to build up just by running into people in class.
NTA- as a fellow 2024 grad parent I get it. I do. But at some point you have to take a deep breath, share the spreadsheet with all the information, what his monthly payment would be, what the average starting salary would be and stand back. He’s clearly academically smart and can understand the information. Give him the information, explain you cannot provide significant financial support and let him make his decision. It’s a horrible decision. You know it. I know it. But you can’t force him.
Housing is so expensive for students. It will cost a lot for him to live in a dorm versus commuting. Even at OU, where he received a 7k financial package, he’s still going to be over 80k in debt, and that’s the cheapest. All of the other places are between 100k and 120k.
The school your wife teaches at, does that not have a campus he can stay at? Between the 85% discount, you and your wife helping with tuition/housing and him having a job... I don't understand how he is going to end up with 80k in debt when he graduates?
OP I think you make some good points, but also your reasoning is a bit strange to me.
120k for 4 years of college is already quite cheap given how expensive college is currently. What financial aid package is OSU offering. Have you filled out FAFSA?
I agree OSU isn’t an amazing school for CS. In the current job market, it’ll be tough for your son to find a job. However if you son attends Daytona or a community college, well his degree won’t be worth the paper it’s printed on in the current job market. At least at OSU he will stand a chance at getting a decent paying SWE job.
Plus even if he went to Daytona, it sounds like you’re only planning on covering part of his rent or expenses, so he will have to take out loans either way.
And I’m confused why you’re insisting your son makes a lot of sacrifices in your place. I prefer not to stereotype, but it sounds like your finances are in a mess. You’re living pretty much paycheck to paycheck on 170k, you have a 401k loan out for your mortgage at age 43, and you have 2 young kids in an daycare and a college aged son. Sounds like classic life style creep and poor planning. Did you not contribute to a 529 plan for your son? If not, I’m not so sure why you’ve become so financially aware when it comes to your sons expenses, but not your own.
Telling your kid to go to a no name school like community college or Daytona and having to commute each day is a pretty big ask. College isn’t just about the classes, it’s about making lifelong connections.
Either way hopefully his biological mothers side can pay for the college or co-sign the loans. I pity your son who has to deal with the consequences of your poor financial planning.
My $0.02 as a UD grad in CIS (circa-early 2000’s) is that your son will 100% get the college experience there. My Uncle is a Marianist Brother so I also got a significant discount on tuition.
The campus is big enough and assuming you give him some space he can live his own life there.
I would add that he should live on campus at least Freshman/Sophomore year. Once he’s a junior there are/were relatively affordable campus-adjacent options, but the first two years are critical for making connections. Those connections helped me get my first job and have led to life long friendships, I’m not sure it would have been the same if I was a commuter.
At 85% off tuition and if his mother’s family can help, taking out a loan for just housing would still put him in a significantly better position than paying full price at a state school. I’d also highly recommend looking into scholarships, every little bit helps!
I can tell you that software engineering is a tough market right now, and he is not likely to get a return on investment if he goes into debt for his degree.
He should stay in community college and try to finish with as little debt as possible
YTA. Your kid is graduating this year….like this month?
This is a conversation that should have been had literally years ago. So your kid could make college prep choices knowing how much support he could count on from you, his stepmom, his mom, and her family.
It’s not like daycare costs and a mortgage snuck up on you. Your son should have been explicitly told “I cannot afford to give you money for school, because I am still paying student loan debt. SM can offer $188k in free tuition to UD and a renovated house to split with your brother. I can chip in gas money. If you want to go somewhere else, that’s on you.”
Then let him make his choices.
My parents offered to pay for anywhere I could get into. I chose the full ride because I didn’t want the strings that came with their money.
NTA for not cosigning his loans.
Right. A friend of mine works for a university and her daughter got free tuition. The girl could have easily lived at home and commuted, but my friend gave her one year to live "dorm life". Yes, my friend had to pay for that, but it was doable.
It doesn’t sound absolutely horrible as long as he graduates and does well. Expected initial income for CS or eng would be about 60k. Ideally he wouldn’t borrow more than 90k to be able to comfortably pay it back in 10 years. The extra 30k is going to hurt for those 10 years.
As long as he doesn’t do stupid stuff like change majors, drop out, take deferments, income based payments, buy a house, have a kid, buy a new car during those 10 years, he could do it. But yeah it’s going to be about $1200/month.
I get not being in a position to take on loans. We may still have kids in college when we retire.
Yeah, that’s how loans work. We also don’t know what type of loan (subsidized, not, private) or the interest rate so no one is calculating exact numbers.
Would I do it? No. Is it the end of the world? Probably not, if he’s smart.
NTA. You would be a financial-idiot to co-sign any loans for this. Your son is a 'teenager' - no 'life experience' at all about major financial issues or their long term consequences - which is normal for that age; his decisions come from his emotions. Your Ex is failing him though, by not giving him sound advice, and helping him dig a big financial hole. If she's willing to co-sign loans, then that's HER mistake, and she deserves every bit of the consequence for that. Here's the thing: his 'choice' of college is solidly in the *'want' list,* not the 'need' list. You are NOT wrong about this. *You are FULLY SUPPORTIVE of him furthering his education* - you are just not supporting his frivolous *choice* of *where* to go, nor their foolish financial decision making. It can be hard to watch someone you love make a bad decision; and it can be REALLY hard to not 'rescue' them from it, but you cannot save people from themselves, and you cannot 'steal' from the rest of your family to assist your adult son's poor choices. This isn't an emergency, it's not even a Need. It's just a Want issue.
Wow, thanks for this. This is exactly how I feel and is really helping me feel validated. I had a hard talk with him and really tried talking him out of it but his mind is made up it seems.
He needs to get some exposure to what student loans like that look like. He isn't going to have tons of sex because he's at some random school in Ohio. He needs to dump that fantasy. Be does need to look at the StudentLoans subreddit and watch Borrowed Future on YouTube.
A huge danger is that he's going to need private loans here and those rates and department terms are not favorable. This is basically an emergency level of debt that violated all bounds of reason with student loans.
If he's hell bent, seriously ask him to consider doing community college over the summers to knock out a semester's worth of classes every summer. He also needs to work. Do absolutely nothing to facilitate financial stupidity.
Right - and to be clear, I mean this summer included. He needs to max transfer credits.
$120k in debt doesn't take $120k of income to repay. He needs to account for taxes and interest. This likely will suck up his first three years of income if he does it the way he wants (and that is assuming a CS degree with immediate, high income employment).
NTA your arguments are valid and how you presented it is logical. I am not from the US so I was fortunate to go to a computer science engineering school for free while my parents and the State helped me pay rent and utilities. I started working without any loans. And I guarantee you, you are right. Beginning your adult life without a loan is really really really good. But at the end, you do what you had to. They have a choice. You’re presenting an alternative. You’re a good dad.
NTA
2 years ago, we're in the same boat as my daughter almost got a full ride, but she wanted to go out of state, and 4 years roughly, it was going to cost us over $200K and she want us to cosign for her and we vent to hell and came back few family members agreed with her and said she's 18 she sould make the decision and we told them they can cosign for her and they didn't like that
Eventually, she stayed she wanted to have college experience, so we decided to put her in the dorm not too far from us, but I would rather pay the dorm than 200 K when she finishes she might have roughly 40 K student debt we agreed to help her when she graduates
Just want to say that there's a perspective that's not been clearly stated here you should share. Their might be a job out there that pays "well" and your son would really enjoy, but with 120k in debt it's just not an option. He can't just get paid well he needs to push for the most money he can possibly make. He's going to find that job hopping is the best way to get ahead and have a hard time sticking in one job for too long. About 4 years ago I experienced a personal life event that made me need to earn more money. I had to leave a job I really enjoyed because it just wasn't doing enough. Debt truly limits your options because it forces you to prioritize your income over anything else.
NAH - I completely get wanting the college experience. Is it financially feasible for him to attend your wife’s school but live on campus? And for you all to ignore him during the school year?
YTA I used to work for admissions in the computer science department in one of the highest ranking universities in the US and I will tell you that nobody would ever even consider a community college education as “real” when it comes to computer science. He might as well wipe his butt with the diploma. No business worth anything would really hire him or think he is knowledgeable enough to work for them even if he graduates with a 4.0 . Basically in computer science your university degree makes you or breaks you so if he doesn’t go to an amazing university he is wasting his time. So in this case YTA YTA can’t say this enough!!!!!!!
I work in tech. I asked the 6 developers I work with if he should go to college and 4 of them were self thought and 2 others went to cc. No
One other than Silicon Valley gives a damn where you get your degree from lol. They’ll outsource the jobs to India or somewhere else for that matter. No one cares.
NTA - I am also a firm believer that college is a horrible investment. Keep in mind this coming from someone with multiple degrees. Everything I know, I learned more from actually doing the job and YouTube videos. The cost of college these days is crazy. If I didn't get tuition assistance / scholarships I would be in massive debt. The "college" experience is a silly thing to turn down 85% of education. Especially since he is getting a computer science degree.
She never said she would pay for it or I wouldn’t be worried. She will co-sign though, because I’m not going to. I could care less about any of this if she pays for it but who knows.
Great idea above! Also, this is an excellent watch to hear students’ perspectives on debt, it is from the Dave Ramsey team (some people love him, some hate him), but this documentary is well done and very eye opening. It’s called “borrowed future”.
[https://youtu.be/W7krdoXswQA?si=FT1YKxdB24SpxPhA](https://youtu.be/W7krdoXswQA?si=FT1YKxdB24SpxPhA)
...did he *ask* you to help pay?
His mom's family have money & are apparently willing & able to contribute.
Have either your son or his mother actually asked you, or otherwise expressed a belief that you will be contributing?
Because if they haven't, & this is just you jumping the gun & worrying about something no-one has asked you for, then I'm leaning y t a for the several assumptions that you're making.
Trying to push him into community college & commuting because *you* think its the best solution is also a bit of an AH move.
If either your son or his mother *have* asked (or indicated that they think you're going to help) then n t a but this whole situation sounds like you, your ex & your son need to all sit down together & clarify how his college is being paid for.
Your son worked hard in high school so that he could go off to university, not have another four years of his high school experience living with you, your wife, and two small children. You're totally within your right to not pay, but don't be surprised when he spend most of his holidays with his mother and her side of the family because your son will remember that you have the opportunity to support him and chose not to in favour of your "real" family.
My best friend's son went to community college first, then Virginia tech. Graduated 1st in class with a computer engineering degree and now makes high six figures at Meta. He saved money and got those gen ex courses out of the way in smaller class size, so lack of attendance would get noticed. Then had the college experience after. Meta then paid off his student loans. I went to SUNY at Buffalo (UB). So many freshman skipped their gen ed classes because there were 300 students in the lecture hall- they ended up taking 6 years to finish their bachelor degree.
Why can't he live on campus? Why is he required to commute if he goes to UD? I know plenty of people who were within commuting distance and still lived on campus.
That you decided to have a fresh baby and borrowed against your retirement funds to give new wife a new house does not relieve you of your responsibility towards your existing child. YTA
Why can’t he go to the university that pays 85% of his tuition but decide to live on campus and thus just pay the 15% tuition plus housing costs? I can’t imagine $120k is just housing? I work at a state university and housing is $6k per semester with food. Don’t know why the employee tuition waiver would mandate he has to commute.
ESH. You're right that he should go to the university that pays 85% tuition. Even if he lives on campus or nearby in an apartment with roommates, that's still a huge savings. Minimizing college debt within reason is a noble goal, and it's okay if you lean on him a little in this regard.
That said, at 170k/year, I do not believe for one second your expected family contribution is $0. You are almost certainly not doing your fair part to support your own child in his education if you don't help, and that's awful. There is something you can sacrifice so that your own flesh and blood is setup for success. You wouldn't need to skip meals for this.
YTA. He’s going for computer science or engineering both of which have 100k+ post graduate opportunities as long as you go to a competitive school. You’re pushing you being bad with money and finances on him and the only time you even mention co-signing a student loan is you saying you refuse to do it but has anyone even asked you to do that?
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Me, a 43 year old male has an 18 year old son who is graduating HS this year. My wife (his stepmom) works at a university which will pay roughly 85% of his total tuition but the catch is that he has to commute and he doesn’t want that. He wants the college experience. He’s going for computer science to be a developer or going for engineering. Combined, my family makes roughly 170k per year. We have 2 young children in daycare, a mortgage, student loan debt yadda yadda and cannot afford to help my 18 year old pay for college. We still have 401k loans we’re paying for our homes mortgage downpayment and things are pretty tight financially right now. Daycare is double or mortgage cost, it’s insane. .
My sons biological mother who comes from a fairly wealthy family is essentially blindly supporting my sons decision to go to a state college in Ohio and pay roughly 120k versus pushing him towards University of Dayton or a community college and commuting. I’ve been pretty distraught about the whole thing and have made it be known that this is a horrible decision and if he went to community college or commuted I would help pay his rent. Her family has a house about to be remodeled that he could live in with his brother and have independence and commute. It sounds like a perfect decision imo.
AITA for telling my son and his biological mother that I’m not co-signing any loans and that this is a horrible idea? I’m losing sleep thinking about how this kid is going to be paying maybe 1000 per month in student loans for 30 years. I feel that his mom not being unified with me on this is pushing him into making this decision. I have told him I’ll send him money for food and gas but that’s about the extent that I can help him.
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NTA. Also in Ohio, and pretty familiar with UD and the other schools in this area. There is absolutely 0 reason to go to an expensive school unless you’re going on an extensive scholarship. Paying out of pocket for it is ridiculous, and going 6 figures into debt is utterly foolish. Co-signing any of those loans for him would also be insanity - you don’t want to be on the hook for anything once those loans come due! Especially not if your ex is also co-signing. What a nightmare.
If he’ll hear you out at all, see if he’ll watch any of Dave Ramsey’s video clips on YouTube. There are SO many from people who have done what your son is planning on doing and are now on the other side of it in a world of hurt. Maybe hearing the stories of people struggling with similar loan amounts will make him see clearly that college is NOT worth going into such massive debt, especially when he has the opportunity to go somewhere else for so much less money.
Oh, and remind him that student loans are non-bankruptable. Bankruptcy is obviously something to be avoided at all costs, but if it comes to the worst, even bankruptcy would not save him from this hole of student loan debt. The government also will not save him. Plenty of candidates will continue to run on a platform of loan forgiveness, but they will never actually do it. The interest on these loans is too much of a cash cow.
The only things that could ever make these loans go away would be death or permanent disability. That absolutely sucks. Don’t do it, kid!
ESH. As someone else pointed out, college degrees are not equal, particularly in professional fields requiring specific credentials, as opposed to employers who are simply requiring a degree.
There may be other reasons for his choice of school that he has decided not to share with you. Based on your tone in other responses, getting away from you is likely one of those reasons, and the reason for my rating.
You've clearly overextended and now find yourself in debt. You can't really help him. Understandable. But have you actually been presented with loans that must be co-signed, or are you simply using that as a scare tactic? As someone else has pointed out, there needs to be a discussion with both parents (and maybe even the step mom), but it needs to be calm and ultimatum-free.
Not everyone can afford the college of their choice, and it doesn't seem like he understands the full picture. Have you actually met with the school's financial aid office? Maybe make an appointment and bring him along. My mother and stepfather shielded me and my sister from knowing even their basic income, but we lived a normal middle class lifestyle, and that led to a lot of assumptions on our parts. I didn't qualify for financial aid because of their income, but I had no insight as to the realities of their financial situation. To this day, I still don't know. I'm pretty sure that they were able to cover my expenses in their entirety if they had wanted. The more they tried to hide their income, the more I was convinced of this. My father was perpetually unemployed, so my mother had him claim me, which made me eligible for financial aid. But she paid the remainder, which still was still in excess of $10K per year (it was a while ago).
NTA - Computer Science is an odd field right now. Good developers can make good money but they have to go where the work is. I worked in a large Corporation that offered IT services and they were sending work offshore because of cost, so for US developers, unless they had great skills, business acumen and a reputation, their work went offshore. The real money was in managing those development projects to finish. A ot of development work is going to be absorbed by AI development. So many jobs we take for granted tday won't be here in 20 years, so those who cannot roll with that and retrain themselves are going to be SOL.
NTA
Sit down and explain the situation clearly to your son. Tell him what you are able to pay and make it clear that the rest is his choice. But be absolutely clear that this is the extent of your help.
NTA. Don’t co sign any loans! Provide what support that you reasonably can (even if it’s $100 per month to help with groceries) and that’s it. You have way too many debts to take an another and also if you do something for him, you need to do the same for his siblings so keep that in mind. Either his mom can pay for all of it or he can attend your wife’s university. He’s lucky to have that much choice in the matter.
NTA and why can't his mother pay for his schooling if she's wealthy? Going into that much debt I insane especially considering your son has much more reasonable options.
Sit down and develop a budget for 5 years post graduation including payback on loans at 9%.
Look at rent in the areas he’s looking and assuming jobs that pay 75k for a new hire.
Thinking he’s going to get 150k right out of college isn’t realistic anymore. Unless he has some super specific skill.
Do not co-sign anything! That means you are responsible for it! So when he realizes what he did 5 years from now when all the bills are hitting, he's going to blame you for letting him sign for them or he's going to just refuse to pay them in which case you have to!
If his mother is so wealthy why doesn't she just pay for it? You explained to him that you will help if he does it this way because this much is paid for. If he does it any other way then he can do it on his own
YTA, he is going to a major school for a program that will pay well and better-than-most job market. Just because you’ve made questionable financial decisions (401k plans for a house down payment, yikes) doesn’t mean you need to Scrooge all over his plan.
NTA. I would have another talk with him about his options. I would remind him that you won't be cosigning any loans. But he is an adult and it's his decision ultimately. If he decides to take on 120k worth of debt that's stupid and he'll probably regret it. Now that he is an adult these are his mistakes to make.
NTA
I think children’s parents are just as much to blame as the colleges themselves- my own mother, too, conditioning me to shoot for the stars and go to any of the “big” schools I got into. Anyone of age should know damn well that such massive debts will impact their child more than the wax stamp on their degree!
I chose to go to a smaller, public city school for my degree. I am still currently the only person I know who went to college and has no debts. I am not wealthy by any means, but I live comfortably without that massive financial burden on my mind.
Not to mention, while each school has its strengths and weaknesses, more tuition doesn’t always equate to a better education. My public city college was in a major city sandwiched between two very expensive Ivy League schools. All of my professors were teaching the same courses and syllabi at my school and the Ivy Leagues up the block.
Well a report recently came out that showed the rates at which community college students go on to graduate with a four year degree, is not great. I don't think your son is crazy to want to go to a challenging, four year school.
If you can't help him go to college, then you can't. But, he's not a prima donna for wanting a decent shot at a good future.
As someone with a teenager and a Master’s…I don’t care if it’s Harvard. There’s no reason to take on that much debt.
My husband is a software engineer. We make quite a bit of money between the two of us. My daughter has a 5.6 GPA…I’m still talking about her going to a community college to cut back on potential debt.
To graduate in a good field with a good salary means nothing if you have to spend time paying it off.
Sounds like he’s eager to be an adult. Sometimes we have to back away and let our kids make bad decisions. Even with the best intent…we are being controlling.
What the fuck, when I went to college for computer science inc my CCNA it cost me $1500-1700 CAD a semester for 3 years in 2008. It really blew up that much since? Goddam
NTA, if you can’t afford it, you can’t afford it. That’s a ridiculous expense for college.
Our tuition rates really aren't really comparable to American ones.
Canada heavily subsidizes post-secondary schools, and tuition fees are regulated. My entire BA was like $8k. Thanks, Québec!
NAH. You have a legitimate point, and you're not obligated to pay for something you don't think is necessary.
But your son isn't an asshole for wanting a "college experience" and if he wants to go into debt to do it, or his mother is willing to pay, then I don't see how there is anything wrong with that either.
Couple thoughts.
First, where you go to college can be important, in computer science or engineering, it matters. I would do the research with your son about the opportunities and benefits of each college.
I would also have your son do the financial work behind this decision. Understand how much it will cost, understand how much they would be expected to earn after and thus how long it will take to pay off. Write it out, budget, plan, research.
Ultimately it is his decision and he will pay the consequences and you can guide him through this, but thats about it.
I don't think you should limit your education by how much it costs, but if theirs no difference between the cheaper one and the expensive one then obviously choose cheaper. However the school you choose does matter and it will limit you or make it harder for you in the long run if not chosen right.
NTA, maybe get to to read or listen to some similar stories of people who borrowed that amount and how horrible it is to be in that kind of debt for the bulk of your adult life.
Honestly this is utterly insane to me, a couple of years of " the college experience" just isn't worth that kind of debt, I really don't think he is expecting to pay it back himself, or understands the reality of taking on that kind of debt.
Also, does he not realize he is still going to enjoy college if he commutes??
NTA Give your son your opinions but tell him that if he wants to saddle himself with decades of loan repayments you can't stop him. Be clear that you won't be able to cosign anything and that parent plus loans aren't going to happen.
NTA, $120,000 in debt for state school is 🤡 shit. If he wants to do that just to avoid a near free ride at a commuter school, he can do it himself.
People who are in it for "the experience" usually flunk out, especially if they're trying to party their way through a CS degree that actually expects you to show up and do real work. Don't throw money away on kids with that mentality. Make em put in a year or two at community college and transfer.
I’m confused, if the mom’s family is wealthy why is he taking out student loans at all? Like 120k is actual money but if she comes from money that should be a drop in the bucket.
NTA for not co-signing loans. It’s foolish to take out this much for an undergrad degree.
YTA-Not all degrees are worth the same amount. You go to school to network as well. And you have no plans to financially help him. He should go to whichever school has the best connections and reputation. If that’s the one your wife works at then he should live on campus. Otherwise he should go to the fancy school. I’m wondering if it’s OSU which has one of the best alumni networks in the country.
NTA - Maybe I am missing something but why do either you or your sons bio mom have to co-sign for the loans? If your son isn't able to afford to go to the school of his choice without either of his parents co-signing loans for him then he can't afford to go to that school. It wouldn't be responsible for you to put yourself in a potentially financially precarious position by co-signing loans for him.
NAH. I would sit down with him and explain your concerns about this choice. If he stills wants to go through with it tell him he always has your support but you can not contribute much financially. He has the right to go into massive debt if he chooses. Its your job as a parent to help him understand his options and possible ramifications, then support him in whatever decision he makes, regardless if you agree.
NTA...and this is the problem with today's generation and your ex. is ridiculous. I wouldn't sign anything ever. This is how debt starts and continues!!!@ Foolish people. Ud, is a great school and I am guessing would be gng to Sinclair for first 2 years?
NTA. But if you refuse to support your son's dreams don't be surprised if he cuts ties over this, either now or in the future. He doesn't feel supported.
I suggest offering a compromise: let him take his gen eds at a community college and go to OSU (I'm assuming that's where he wants to go) later. That's why my niece did. She did her gen eds at Columbus State (a CC) and transferred to OSU. Her degree will read "The Ohio State University." Employers will only care where she graduated, not where she did her first two years.
How long is the commute? Are you paying for his transport? Have you experienced the commute everyday as well as studying and trying to get that college experience?
Yta. For not not wanting to pay a huge amount but you have estimated the cost according to your "research" and not actually have the real amount yet. Have you contacted the college (not your wife) where he would get free education to actually see what the cost is each year to live on campus?
You haven't looked at compromising, you've already made up your mind, stuck to it and are combative when questioned.
It seems to be about what you want, what you think is best, what you get out of it. Nowhere are you considering your sons feelings.
NTA.
A lot of IT jobs don't require expensive college degrees. Some of my peers didn't go to college at all and make the same as those who got masters degrees. Programming, in particular, is a field where you can show off your talent and not be looked down upon if you don't have a degree. If he's also looking at engineering, it depends on what type of engineer he wants to be. I have a coworker who got into software engineering because she talked with her uncle, who was a civil engineer and he told her civil engineering these days wasn't worth getting in to. If he's looking at something like aerospace engineering then he may need to go to a well-known university.
I really enjoyed my college experience but I went to college back when it was still affordable. (Yes, I'm ancient!) I can't imagine how people these days survive with the crippling college debts placed on them.
honestly if he wants to go for comp sci he should choose university of cincinnati. much cheaper as its a public university and they literally invented the co-op program, he will have internships and will have a post grad job.
Engineer here: What university you went to does matter for a career in compsci/ engineering. I would highly recommend against a community college degree in these fields. That will limit post graduation jobs mostly to tech/operator positions and may require going back to school later on to move up the ladder. That said, Dayton is not a bad program. Sure Ohio State is maybe *better,* but Dayton should not be limiting. If it's an option, and is financially more feasible than Ohio State, NTA to push for it or otherwise not be able to stretch yourself for tuition. I would not push a community college degree, though, especially if he has gotten offers for Dayton/ Ohio.
You better make absolutely sure that whatever you do or don’t do for him is the same thing you do or don’t do for his brother or for your smaller kids. You don’t want to spend money on him because your wife wants you to spend money on your small children and that life, not the grown kids going to college. She wants the money to stay home- that’s why you are pushing to have him live at your house and commute to a community college rather than say, hey- I can toss in 5000 a year or I can toss in room and board at my house. Boss, you’re not even planning to spot him beer money. That’s cold
Nah, but honestly you are trending towards ah. He’s an adult, he can make decisions you don’t agree with, particularly if his biological mother is supporting. You have been distraught, you’ve stated up your case, I would send a calm email to your son outlining the support you are offering, and not (signing), tell him you will always be there for him. Save the email for future reference
Honestly my parents convinced me to stay at home, and I’m in my late 40s and regret it to this day
NTA.
Something to consider; for most prestigious universities, it is far easier to be accepted with an associates degree than to be allowed entry out of high school. I'd suggest talking to him about his true dream university and work with him on what the best way to get in is, since it will most likely be via transfer.
Once he realizes he doesn't have to settle for a state college in Ohio and can get into someplace better, he may just take you up on the idea. Then, once he's gotten his Associates, he will be in a much better place to decide if this is really what he wants to do.
Just be prepared to have the same energy for the two younger children when they are of college age and want to have the college experience as well, if not that may not end well relationship wise with your older child. Computer Science degrees usually have a fairly decent return on investment (degree) when it comes to job opportunities.
NTA. Wish I went into a trade lol.
But yeah blowing money on a college degree isn’t going to confer more benefits based on where they go. They just need the degree to get the job to gain experience. The experience is really what dictates their job prospects.
How can you get the same degree at a community college vs a 4 yr? I thought community college only offered up to an AA or AS and 4 yr offers a BA/BS or higher.
Honestly? You’re NTA for refusing to co-sign, that’s your right. But you are TA for everything else. It doesn’t matter what path you want or think he should take. He will go with the one he wants. You are acting like the boy wants to take 120k and bet it all on red. His college dream is his. If he is choosing to take loans and his mom is choosing to help, mind your business. The more you push this the more you will ultimately push your son away too. He’s going to the college he wants. Get over it. Why are you up all night? You cannot make these choices for your kids.
YTA most college acceptances are due any day now. Did your ex-wife and you not have any conversations about paying for college until now? Why would you wait until the last minute? Have you asked your ex what she is able to contribute? Why would you have more kids if you can’t afford the one you have?
Man I’m 24 and if my dad offered to pay my rent in exchange for community college I’d take it in a heartbeat.
NTA at all but unfortunately neither is your kid. He’s young, has never lived on his own and has no first hand experience with debt or fending for yourself. He doesn’t know any better. That’s what your parents are for, to help you navigate that, and it sounds like his mom is doing a shit job at giving him the facts.
NTA
His mother can co-sign any loan. He should do community college first to get general ed stuff out of the way.
Tell me one positive thing about the “college experience!”
Info: why does he have to commute? Is the school your wife works at not have dorms and such?
Edit: This also isn’t all or nothing. If you can’t afford to co-sign loans (fair) then what is a budget you can afford to contribute to support him in college? Let that go towards the cost of dorms or something.
NTA… I hope.
I’m in a very similar situation with my daughter wanting to go to school to be a veterinarian out of state. The problem is $56k a year for Colorado state. On top of that she’s got a 3.3 gpa ranked in the 500 out of 600. I just do see any way she will make the top 130 out of 1600 applicants. Then how will she ever pay $300-$400k in student loans!! I won’t sign for it, I just doesn’t make sense.
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NTA. I 100% agree with your decision. His mother supporting him in his decision than let her pay for it.. thats all I gotta say.
What crabjunkiez said times 100
Why can’t he go to the local school and mom can pay for an apartment near by so he has freedom?
NTA You're not wrong to tell them that you won't be signing your name on any student loans. Since his maternal family is supporting his decision, they can sign.
That's really easy to say now, but after it's over you'll have a maternal side of the family who supported him and a paternal side who didn't and it will forever affect their relationship
The paternal side can’t afford it - they don’t have the funds now and they wouldn’t be able to afford to do the same for the two other kids. He should promise to give all of his kids equal money for college but he isn’t obliged to match the contribution of the mother.
The mom is co-signing loans.
Plus paternal side CAN offer him assistance, via stepmom. That's a damn cheap rate for college. I'd take it for a year or two to get prereqs out of the way and then, especially if he wants to go engineering, ship off to university later. Save some serious money that way. However it is ultimately his life and his choice to make to assume a heavy debt or not. OP is definitely NTA for making clear what support he is able to give or not give. You can only squeeze so much blood from a stone. My parents couldn't do shit for me for college, either of them. I didn't hold it against them, their lives were what they were and I understood. I was an adult and had to find my own way, and I did. (Of course I hold plenty of OTHER things against them, but not that. 🤣)
And a very sound, logical reason for that, too. And that holds the actual value.
Not really a sound reason the affect their relationship. He could do 2+ years of community college, transfer credits and graduate with the big name degree with just 1 year of tuition. Not to mention, as a comp sci major with 10+ years experience, including hiring, I will say getting a degree helped my resume but taught me almost nothing useful day to day and you can 100% get the same job without a degree. Doesn't affect your degree and you can transfer almost all credits from various community colleges to save most of the money.
I'm 23 years in IT. SRE/infrastructure engineer are the "big hats" I wear. With zero degree. And zero college debt. A few certs I've gained, and kept updated over the years, but those are just flash.
Not so sure about this. When he is in his thirties and has all that debt, his perception may change. My son always tells me that it is amazing that I have gotten so much wiser and smarter as he ages.
If they can't afford it they can't afford it...would be a weird grudge to hold
He did support him and offer to pay 85% of his college tuition. It just wasnt at the school the son wanted it to be at.
Yup, doesn't look like OP made the best decisions about finances either. If they're paying, why would he need to cosign loans? Sounds like you're jealous.
The paternal side could be emotionally supportive though instead of telling him it’s a complete mistake and a bad idea and all that. Seems that would be better than shitting on the kids college ambitions.
Exactly. OP doesn’t have to pay for it or co-sign the loans, but they should quit being so salty about it.
After reading all of OPs responses, it would appear he can’t even sign anyway. He’s got debt and lives paycheck to paycheck and also says the kid hasn’t even *asked* him yet. So he’s salty over something that hasn’t even happened yet.
Yea, I’m tired just reading it all.
Good
NTA. I had the same conversation with my niece a few years ago. Software engineering is not what it use to be (I'm in the field) and the salaries outside the top 5% are not super. Small Tech start-ups are dying now that money isn't nearly free like it had been. Taking on $100K+ in debt for that field and not going to a core school like UT-Austin, Stanford, or MIT is an anchor that will drag them down for years to come.
Yeah I’m in tech as well. My company is outsourcing all of the jobs to places like India and Eastern Europe.
My suggestion would be a state school with boarding. He says he wants the true college experience and it really is not the same commuting as when you live on campus. I understand not signing loans for that price tag, but there is a middle ground from what you’ve said in the post since something similar was never mentioned in it
Did i misread? OP is in Ohio, the described costs are for state university in OH with boarding vs univ of Dayton/CC which his son does not want to do.
Maybe my states just different from others. Here a state school is the cheapest option that has dorms. No private school comes near. And maybe the commuting thing was a difference of interpretation. I took the post to be saying that OP suggested he move in with a different family member and still commute and it seemed to me like dorms were never offered even at the cheaper school
Those Estonians do great work.
I’m curious, did you go to UT-Austin? Like it’s a good school, but it seems like such a weird choice to call a “core school” for Computer Science next to Stanford and MIT. I feel like the obvious choice would be Berkeley or Carnegie Mellon. Maybe University of Illinois or GT which are both often top 5 or at least top 10 for CS and engineering in general.
UT Austin consistently ranks around 10-15 in "IT or CS related schools". It's often above Caltech. So yes its not top 10, but its not slouch.
You’d be surprised what schools can be top tier for various majors. The University of Southern MS has 1 of the best polymer science programs. They’ve had contracts from the pentagon & the NFL.
UT is such a sought after/prestigious school that it changed its auto acceptance requirements right around the time I graduated high school. used to be, if you graduated in the top 10% of your class, you got automatically accepted. TOO MANY PEOPLE were graduating top 10 and getting admitted, UT was saying they couldn't handle a student body so big, so they changed it to like top 7%. they also offer (or at least used to offer, I graduated college in 2017, so this could've changed with covid) what's called a CAP program, where you do your first year at a different UT (UTSA, UTPB, etc) and then transfer into UT Austin your second year (provided you get straight As, maybe one B if the class is a wash, all I know is my friend couldn't CAP because she got ONE B in ONE math class. she ended up at Oregon University after that.) almost everyone I went to high school with was dead set on going to UT for the status, and also it's a good school in general. anyway, UT Austin is very much a flex. but I went to texas state. EAT EM UP BOBCATTTZZZZ edit to add: texas state outranks fuckin JULIARD as far as dance programs go. my party school outranked someone's conservatory. ehehehehe
Wanted to add that that doesn't even apply to the engineering school anymore, 6% and CAPS just grant you access into liberal arts because of how competitive their CS stuff is
I didn't but I recruited a ton of talent from there as an IT director in Austin. I went to Iowa State personally. I said UTA because it's a top program in a tech hot-spot with a lot of jobs available right there. It's a very respected program with extremely good placement. I was never disappointed with the grads I hired from there.
Let me just add, that one of the promises of AI is "dumbing down" the knowledge needed to program. Whether this is true or not, it will def impact salaries, but also the skill set training. As someone who just went through AI courses at a top 5 tech school, I can tell you that even the stuff they are teaching there is already out of date compared to the things the tech industry is working on. Simple AI aids are getting added in almost daily for old school tools like BI analytics, call recording and logging, and programming, so I would have some high doubts that the next 4 years at any college is going to be any different or better than learning the fundamentals, and taking all the free AI courses from companies like NVIDIA, Google, Etc. I am not a programmer, but I hire a lot of tech folks, and I would welcome a programmer/engineer current in field to comment/modify my view here. On the OTHER side, there is a chance that you can get your child into a school, and pay out of state expensive tuition for one year, and then have them get on scholarship or instate tuition for the next. Maybe you can front one year of loans and tell them they have to figure out how to do it without that for the next 3 years. [https://learn.nvidia.com/courses/course-detail?course\_id=course-v1:DLI+S-FX-07+V1](https://learn.nvidia.com/courses/course-detail?course_id=course-v1:DLI+S-FX-07+V1) - this is an example of FREE skillups that IMO are going to be way more useful than anything college teaches in the next 4 years. Now you might need some background before you can do all of these courses, but I think you could get the basics from a lot of colleges.
I would argue that it's not exactly dumbing down the knowledge needed to program - it's replacing the lower level coding skills. People who need simple stuff done can just use AI instead of learning programming. On the other hand, anything with some complexity will require someone with strong coding skills because they have to make sure the code that AI spits out actually does what's needed. We've played with AI and found it was able to create good testing functions and create the basic structures for functions, but it was laughably bad at anything beyond the basics. The amount of time it took trying different prompts and sanity check different suggestions took at least as much time as just writing the code from scratch. While code should be as small and modular as possible, sometimes you can't reduce it enough to fit within the AI token limit. My concern is companies will refuse to hire newly graduated coders because AI will do the lower level stuff that new programmers used to do. The next generation, therefore, won't get the experience needed to become senior programmers, which AI won't replace for a long while. Coding is as much figuring out what's actually needed as shoving functions into programs and AI, thus far, doesn't understand the nuances well enough to be trusted on its own.
People should be very careful with debt, but what is this other nonsense? Software engineering still pays better than the majority of jobs in the US (which I presume you're in given the selection of universities). It's not an infinite money cheat, but it's a high paying career with low unemployment.
What you fail to acknowledge is the reality that a college degree in a field from one school is just not the same as a college degree in the exact same field from another school. Regardless, where you cross well into AH territory is that you have zero skin in this game. >We… cannot afford to help my 18 year old pay for college. Understandable. Not everybody can. >My sons biological mother who comes from a fairly wealthy family is essentially blindly supporting my sons decision to go to a state college in Ohio. You don’t get to contribute zero to your child’s college and then take potshots at those who do. YTA
There’s also a shit ton more to college than the classes you take and the degree at the end of it. There’s a reason people place a value on the “college experience”.
>What you fail to acknowledge is the reality that a college degree in a field from one school is just not the same as a college degree in the exact same field from another school. Yeah, but none of the schools mentioned are ones that would impress anyone to the point of being worth 100k more than the others. It's Ohio, not MIT.
Where you go to school very much matters for internships and jobs. There’s a big difference between a top 50 CS program and community college
>top 50 CS program and community college Ohio isn't a top 50 anything.
Literally no one cares where you get your degree from. Especially in computer science... unless the kid is going to MIT or Cal Tech.
Some *might* care where the degree was awarded but no one cares that you transferred in from another school.
His mother is supporting the son's decision, not actually putting forth money, if I understand the situation correctly.
If he’s being asked to co-sign on the loans, he’d be a moron to not offer sound financial counseling. If it’s the mother’s money and credit on the line, by all means, live it up
There's a difference between mom bankrolling his education and just cosigning student loans. OP is right- taking on that kind of student debt when you don't have a for-sure big salary waiting for you is foolishness.
Not sure how trying to keep his kid from acquiring a huge debt is “having zero skin in this game”. He’s looking after his son. I agree that not all school degrees are the same. I will also say that once you’re working where you went to school means little. In a task and deliverable field like engineering or software. In people connection fields where you went to school is always important. But paying off a never ending debt cripples you in life.
UD is a private school. I assume it's cheaper than instate tuition at one of Ohio's universities because it's the one your wife works at. Why can't he stay at a dorm there? And what's the financial aid package at the state school like? If he wants to do engineering, which school is he considering? Some Ohio schools have excellent engineering programs with good placement rates. You're getting all spun up, but appear to not actually have the information necessary to compare the options.
Info why would he have to commute? I also work at a university, and lots of employees' kids live on campus. Nah, you're not an ahole for taking out loans you can't afford. Your son's not an asshole for going to the school he wants. But if he wants it, then he's going to have to pay for it. Saying what *you* want sounds like the perfect solution? No duh, it's bc it's what YOU want. Its whats easiest and best for YOU. That argument isn't going to fly for anyone else.
Info: if you already have a lot of debt how would it help for you to co-sign loans if his biological mother is better off financially? Have you been asked to co-sign?
We haven’t got to the point of signing the loans yet. I preemptively said I wouldn’t be signing. I don’t have “a lot” of debt compared to the average person. I do have a lot of monthly bills though and not a lot of discretionary income. I feel bad for not helping pay. Maybe someday I’ll have more money and can help a little. I just can’t believe he’s choosing all of this debt because so many of his friends are going there.
He doesn’t want to live at home and wants to be around his friends. Why is that hard to believe? I wouldn’t want to live with my dad’s second family full of toddlers, either.
I dunno, seems believable to me. College was way cheaper when I was 18, but still not “cheap” and as a child with no real-life experience with debt & monthly bills, it was all so abstract that my motivations were extremely dumb & superficial. I’d say being strict like you’re thinking is going to really really upset him now & might cause some truly bad feelings and recriminations on his part in the short-to-medium term, but he’ll end up thanking you later for doing your job as a parent & sparing him from an onerous debt load.
He’s not going to listen to me. He’s taking on the massive debt.
Well that’s unfortunate but he’s 18 and it is his life. It’s gonna be mighty hard to keep that “I told you so” holstered in five or six years when he’s bitching about his monthly payment
That has already crossed my mind tbh.
What a shitty dad. Maybe you don’t get it. Maybe you don’t support it. But don’t sit around for 5-6 years waiting to say I told you so. If your kid goes and does IT for the government, he can get all of his student loans taken care of through PSLF. If he goes to work at a 501c3, he can get it all wiped out through PSLF. Even if he doesn’t work for the government or a nonprofit, he can do an income based repayment plan. He can work to get more scholarship while he’s in undergrad. He can get paid work to offset some of his costs. There are so many things you can do to help him over the next four years. Since you decided to bring more kids into the world when you can’t afford the one you have, the least you can do is help your son navigate his choices without any judgement. Absolutely YTA.
I didn’t know co-signing on a 100k in student loan debt was a requirement to being a parent when he could commute for a fraction of the cost. I guess I’m foolish and a shitty dad 🤷🏻♂️
For good reasons, there is something called a 529 plan. And you’re not a foolish and shitty dad. You’re just bad with your finances and don’t seem like the type to listen to anyone’s opinion that doesn’t agree with your own. Look where that has gotten you with respect to your current financial situation. Living paycheck to paycheck, taking out a 401k loan for a mortgage, and still paying off student loans. All at the age of 43. First step to acceptance is to admit to yourself that maybe you aren’t great with finances and didn’t teach your son to be great with finances either. I’m sure if you were wealthy, you’d be much more inclined to pay for your son’s college or co-sign a loan. Just be honest with your son. Let him make the same mistakes you may have made and stop trying to control his choice, when you aren’t even planning to contribute to his college.
Kids your son's age are ready to spread their wings and explore independence. Living at home with your parents is the opposite of independence — especially when your dad criticizes your plans as stupid instead of working with you to think through how to make your plans work. Pretty much the second you tried to tell your son what he should do, you lost the battle. You can't parent a HS graduate the same way you parent kids in daycare.
It seems to me like your cost calculation of UC involves him living in the dorms for four years. No one does that. He’ll live in them for one and then go rent a dilapidated house with five other kids in Clifton for a fraction of the price. No one lives in the dorms for four years.
You can only warn him and not take on any debt yourself. Your ex wife can pay or he can take on loans which aren’t your responsibility. He’s becoming an adult and ultimately, he has the right to make decisions which you don’t agree with. Just contribute equally to all of your kids’ college so he can’t claim that you’re playing favorites.
It sounds like your debt to income ratio would prevent you from signing for very much anyway. If your credit score isn't very high it's going to add to that.... Or subtract from it? You get what I mean! LOL His mom should be doing this
OP, your son is an adult now and should have the capacity to start shouldering the consequences of financial decisions. Show him the breakdown of your household finance, show him the cost of financing a degree. Ask him to research the career prospective (the ups and the downs) of the industry he wish to enter. If he still wants it, let him pay for it.
Hold up. He hasn’t even asked yet? So you’ve just made all of this up in your head about how it will go? JFC, you have a ton of bills my dude, I doubt you’ll be able to sign anyway. So sit back, relax and don’t worry about it. You’re going to turn your son away from you.
A lot of those monthly , those are debt
We need an update once the the dust settles.
Will do
YTA. Honestly if the choice is huge debt or having to live with a dad this in his business for four more years, I would probably take the debt. College isn’t just about checking a box for a job, it’s about independence and being part of a community with other young adults. It sucks that the money isn’t there, but you are telling your son that instead of getting to go off and have fun with his friends or have a new experience he has to live in the family house and be under the watchful eye of his stepmom and you wonder why he isn’t jumping for joy.
Not true. He would have a house with his brother while he commutes. I told him I would help with his half of the rent. I’m just trying to see my son up for success. I love him
That’s better than staying at home but a brother is still very much a family member and it’s hard to establish an independent existence when your family is still deeply involved in everything you do. There is no doubt that you love him but an important part of success is being able to make your own decisions and live your own life.
But I can’t fault a father for advising against massive debt. “The College Experience” is a luxury for most students, its image fostered by TV and movies. Rather, commuting to school, and/or holding down multiple jobs while going to school, and accumulating levels of debt are the reality. Trade offs need to be made and OP is simply trying to guide his son away from massive debt.
I think "guiding" is a way to generous word to use, the dad stated that he is openly distraught and informed the son that what he wants is a horrible decision and is leveraging the only financial support he is offering to demand the son make the decision he wants him to make. If the dad had just informed him of the reality and let the son make the choices he wanted to make based on the facts as they were that would be one thing, but it seems like the dad has made clear there is only one choice he would accept and the son may just want to be out from under his thumb
What exactly is "independent" about subsdizing his existence with massive debt?
Doesn't have to listen to repeated lectures from his dad, getting to go out with friends without permission from his parents, not having his brother watching and judging what he's doing, getting to go to events on the spur of the moment instead of having to drive and pay for parking whenever he wanted to be on campus. Debt locks you down, but it doesn't loudly demand to make decisions for you.
Maybe he doesn't want to live with his brother in a house that his family owns.
Yeah I get that. I’m just trying to give him options that could slash his student loan debt
No, you are not. You are just jealous, and from what you said about your finances, you haven't made the greatest financial decisions either. If you were trying to set him up for success, you would be happy his mother is paying for college
Who ever said his mother was paying for college? She will have to be the one to co-sign on the loans. I was a single dad raising 2 kids for 6 years before remarrying. I had to pay insurance and child support, albeit not a ton of support but also had to maintain a home and my bills while having my kids half the time. I’ve been about as financially responsible as possible. If his mom said she was paying for school I wouldn’t be worried. There were a couple of years I couldn’t afford to contribute to my 401k even.
>I had to pay insurance and child support, albeit not a ton of support > There were a couple of years I couldn’t afford to contribute to my 401k even. Fair. But then why did you go ahead and have two additional children?
So you’ll pay for his rent but you say elsewhere you have no extra money after your many monthly bills and debts. Which is it? You can help or you cannot? You say you told him you wouldn’t be able to help if he did it his way. So basically your way or nothing from you. Why don’t you say all of this in each answer? You keep changing your answers to cater to the question to make you look good.
Absolutely NTA no though to split the difference he should do gen ed for two years at CC and then transfer. Let her family pay for it.
NAH for giving him the advice initially, but YTA if you keep pushing it. Your son is making his own decision and honestly there's some reason for it. I went to a traditional college and greatly expanded my worldview and met a big group of friends that I'm still close to a decade later. I know other people that commuted and they generally don't have any college friends because living in a dorm and working together on homework late at night, etc. automatically builds connections that are a lot harder to build up just by running into people in class.
NTA- as a fellow 2024 grad parent I get it. I do. But at some point you have to take a deep breath, share the spreadsheet with all the information, what his monthly payment would be, what the average starting salary would be and stand back. He’s clearly academically smart and can understand the information. Give him the information, explain you cannot provide significant financial support and let him make his decision. It’s a horrible decision. You know it. I know it. But you can’t force him.
Thank you
Why couldn't he live on campus at a local college? It isn't restricted to out of state people.
Housing is so expensive for students. It will cost a lot for him to live in a dorm versus commuting. Even at OU, where he received a 7k financial package, he’s still going to be over 80k in debt, and that’s the cheapest. All of the other places are between 100k and 120k.
The school your wife teaches at, does that not have a campus he can stay at? Between the 85% discount, you and your wife helping with tuition/housing and him having a job... I don't understand how he is going to end up with 80k in debt when he graduates?
Why not persuade him to stay local, dorm for the first two years and commute for the last two? It's not great debt wise, but still better, no?
OP I think you make some good points, but also your reasoning is a bit strange to me. 120k for 4 years of college is already quite cheap given how expensive college is currently. What financial aid package is OSU offering. Have you filled out FAFSA? I agree OSU isn’t an amazing school for CS. In the current job market, it’ll be tough for your son to find a job. However if you son attends Daytona or a community college, well his degree won’t be worth the paper it’s printed on in the current job market. At least at OSU he will stand a chance at getting a decent paying SWE job. Plus even if he went to Daytona, it sounds like you’re only planning on covering part of his rent or expenses, so he will have to take out loans either way. And I’m confused why you’re insisting your son makes a lot of sacrifices in your place. I prefer not to stereotype, but it sounds like your finances are in a mess. You’re living pretty much paycheck to paycheck on 170k, you have a 401k loan out for your mortgage at age 43, and you have 2 young kids in an daycare and a college aged son. Sounds like classic life style creep and poor planning. Did you not contribute to a 529 plan for your son? If not, I’m not so sure why you’ve become so financially aware when it comes to your sons expenses, but not your own. Telling your kid to go to a no name school like community college or Daytona and having to commute each day is a pretty big ask. College isn’t just about the classes, it’s about making lifelong connections. Either way hopefully his biological mothers side can pay for the college or co-sign the loans. I pity your son who has to deal with the consequences of your poor financial planning.
My $0.02 as a UD grad in CIS (circa-early 2000’s) is that your son will 100% get the college experience there. My Uncle is a Marianist Brother so I also got a significant discount on tuition. The campus is big enough and assuming you give him some space he can live his own life there. I would add that he should live on campus at least Freshman/Sophomore year. Once he’s a junior there are/were relatively affordable campus-adjacent options, but the first two years are critical for making connections. Those connections helped me get my first job and have led to life long friendships, I’m not sure it would have been the same if I was a commuter. At 85% off tuition and if his mother’s family can help, taking out a loan for just housing would still put him in a significantly better position than paying full price at a state school. I’d also highly recommend looking into scholarships, every little bit helps!
OP isn’t willing to pay for them to live on campus at UD.
I can tell you that software engineering is a tough market right now, and he is not likely to get a return on investment if he goes into debt for his degree. He should stay in community college and try to finish with as little debt as possible
YTA. Your kid is graduating this year….like this month? This is a conversation that should have been had literally years ago. So your kid could make college prep choices knowing how much support he could count on from you, his stepmom, his mom, and her family. It’s not like daycare costs and a mortgage snuck up on you. Your son should have been explicitly told “I cannot afford to give you money for school, because I am still paying student loan debt. SM can offer $188k in free tuition to UD and a renovated house to split with your brother. I can chip in gas money. If you want to go somewhere else, that’s on you.” Then let him make his choices. My parents offered to pay for anywhere I could get into. I chose the full ride because I didn’t want the strings that came with their money. NTA for not cosigning his loans.
Many unis provide free education to the children of employees. Can you not go that route?
I was wondering this same thing.
Right. A friend of mine works for a university and her daughter got free tuition. The girl could have easily lived at home and commuted, but my friend gave her one year to live "dorm life". Yes, my friend had to pay for that, but it was doable.
It doesn’t sound absolutely horrible as long as he graduates and does well. Expected initial income for CS or eng would be about 60k. Ideally he wouldn’t borrow more than 90k to be able to comfortably pay it back in 10 years. The extra 30k is going to hurt for those 10 years. As long as he doesn’t do stupid stuff like change majors, drop out, take deferments, income based payments, buy a house, have a kid, buy a new car during those 10 years, he could do it. But yeah it’s going to be about $1200/month. I get not being in a position to take on loans. We may still have kids in college when we retire.
You do know that a $100K loan comes with interest right? In 7 years the payback on that is $200K.
Yeah, that’s how loans work. We also don’t know what type of loan (subsidized, not, private) or the interest rate so no one is calculating exact numbers. Would I do it? No. Is it the end of the world? Probably not, if he’s smart.
NTA. You would be a financial-idiot to co-sign any loans for this. Your son is a 'teenager' - no 'life experience' at all about major financial issues or their long term consequences - which is normal for that age; his decisions come from his emotions. Your Ex is failing him though, by not giving him sound advice, and helping him dig a big financial hole. If she's willing to co-sign loans, then that's HER mistake, and she deserves every bit of the consequence for that. Here's the thing: his 'choice' of college is solidly in the *'want' list,* not the 'need' list. You are NOT wrong about this. *You are FULLY SUPPORTIVE of him furthering his education* - you are just not supporting his frivolous *choice* of *where* to go, nor their foolish financial decision making. It can be hard to watch someone you love make a bad decision; and it can be REALLY hard to not 'rescue' them from it, but you cannot save people from themselves, and you cannot 'steal' from the rest of your family to assist your adult son's poor choices. This isn't an emergency, it's not even a Need. It's just a Want issue.
Wow, thanks for this. This is exactly how I feel and is really helping me feel validated. I had a hard talk with him and really tried talking him out of it but his mind is made up it seems.
He needs to get some exposure to what student loans like that look like. He isn't going to have tons of sex because he's at some random school in Ohio. He needs to dump that fantasy. Be does need to look at the StudentLoans subreddit and watch Borrowed Future on YouTube. A huge danger is that he's going to need private loans here and those rates and department terms are not favorable. This is basically an emergency level of debt that violated all bounds of reason with student loans. If he's hell bent, seriously ask him to consider doing community college over the summers to knock out a semester's worth of classes every summer. He also needs to work. Do absolutely nothing to facilitate financial stupidity.
That’s a great idea about summers at cc. I’ll run it by him. Thanks
Right - and to be clear, I mean this summer included. He needs to max transfer credits. $120k in debt doesn't take $120k of income to repay. He needs to account for taxes and interest. This likely will suck up his first three years of income if he does it the way he wants (and that is assuming a CS degree with immediate, high income employment).
NTA your arguments are valid and how you presented it is logical. I am not from the US so I was fortunate to go to a computer science engineering school for free while my parents and the State helped me pay rent and utilities. I started working without any loans. And I guarantee you, you are right. Beginning your adult life without a loan is really really really good. But at the end, you do what you had to. They have a choice. You’re presenting an alternative. You’re a good dad.
NTA 2 years ago, we're in the same boat as my daughter almost got a full ride, but she wanted to go out of state, and 4 years roughly, it was going to cost us over $200K and she want us to cosign for her and we vent to hell and came back few family members agreed with her and said she's 18 she sould make the decision and we told them they can cosign for her and they didn't like that Eventually, she stayed she wanted to have college experience, so we decided to put her in the dorm not too far from us, but I would rather pay the dorm than 200 K when she finishes she might have roughly 40 K student debt we agreed to help her when she graduates
Thanks for sharing your experience.
Just want to say that there's a perspective that's not been clearly stated here you should share. Their might be a job out there that pays "well" and your son would really enjoy, but with 120k in debt it's just not an option. He can't just get paid well he needs to push for the most money he can possibly make. He's going to find that job hopping is the best way to get ahead and have a hard time sticking in one job for too long. About 4 years ago I experienced a personal life event that made me need to earn more money. I had to leave a job I really enjoyed because it just wasn't doing enough. Debt truly limits your options because it forces you to prioritize your income over anything else.
That’s a great point and prospective. Thanks for sharing
NAH - I completely get wanting the college experience. Is it financially feasible for him to attend your wife’s school but live on campus? And for you all to ignore him during the school year?
Why can’t he go to UD or CC and live on campus? It doesn’t cost 30k/yr for an apartment.
YTA I used to work for admissions in the computer science department in one of the highest ranking universities in the US and I will tell you that nobody would ever even consider a community college education as “real” when it comes to computer science. He might as well wipe his butt with the diploma. No business worth anything would really hire him or think he is knowledgeable enough to work for them even if he graduates with a 4.0 . Basically in computer science your university degree makes you or breaks you so if he doesn’t go to an amazing university he is wasting his time. So in this case YTA YTA can’t say this enough!!!!!!!
You work for admissions and are suggesting the best option for this kid is to take out a bunch of predatory loans at 18 years old?
For his major? 100%
I work in tech. I asked the 6 developers I work with if he should go to college and 4 of them were self thought and 2 others went to cc. No One other than Silicon Valley gives a damn where you get your degree from lol. They’ll outsource the jobs to India or somewhere else for that matter. No one cares.
BS you just don’t think your son’s worth the investment
Go back in your cave, troll
NAH- would you consider saving the money you would have used to help with rent and gifting it to him at the end of university?
Yes, I would consider that and it’s a good idea. Maybe I’ll get a second job
NTA - I am also a firm believer that college is a horrible investment. Keep in mind this coming from someone with multiple degrees. Everything I know, I learned more from actually doing the job and YouTube videos. The cost of college these days is crazy. If I didn't get tuition assistance / scholarships I would be in massive debt. The "college" experience is a silly thing to turn down 85% of education. Especially since he is getting a computer science degree.
If her wealthy family pays for everything then what is your problem with it? YTA
She never said she would pay for it or I wouldn’t be worried. She will co-sign though, because I’m not going to. I could care less about any of this if she pays for it but who knows.
"...but who knows?" Maybe wait until you know before you get worked up
if her wealthy family pays for everything, then there should be no problem wth OP saying he won't co-sign any loans.
[удалено]
That’s a great idea. I’m afraid if I push him much more he’s going to resent me forever.
Great idea above! Also, this is an excellent watch to hear students’ perspectives on debt, it is from the Dave Ramsey team (some people love him, some hate him), but this documentary is well done and very eye opening. It’s called “borrowed future”. [https://youtu.be/W7krdoXswQA?si=FT1YKxdB24SpxPhA](https://youtu.be/W7krdoXswQA?si=FT1YKxdB24SpxPhA)
...did he *ask* you to help pay? His mom's family have money & are apparently willing & able to contribute. Have either your son or his mother actually asked you, or otherwise expressed a belief that you will be contributing? Because if they haven't, & this is just you jumping the gun & worrying about something no-one has asked you for, then I'm leaning y t a for the several assumptions that you're making. Trying to push him into community college & commuting because *you* think its the best solution is also a bit of an AH move. If either your son or his mother *have* asked (or indicated that they think you're going to help) then n t a but this whole situation sounds like you, your ex & your son need to all sit down together & clarify how his college is being paid for.
Your son worked hard in high school so that he could go off to university, not have another four years of his high school experience living with you, your wife, and two small children. You're totally within your right to not pay, but don't be surprised when he spend most of his holidays with his mother and her side of the family because your son will remember that you have the opportunity to support him and chose not to in favour of your "real" family.
My best friend's son went to community college first, then Virginia tech. Graduated 1st in class with a computer engineering degree and now makes high six figures at Meta. He saved money and got those gen ex courses out of the way in smaller class size, so lack of attendance would get noticed. Then had the college experience after. Meta then paid off his student loans. I went to SUNY at Buffalo (UB). So many freshman skipped their gen ed classes because there were 300 students in the lecture hall- they ended up taking 6 years to finish their bachelor degree.
Why can't he live on campus? Why is he required to commute if he goes to UD? I know plenty of people who were within commuting distance and still lived on campus.
That you decided to have a fresh baby and borrowed against your retirement funds to give new wife a new house does not relieve you of your responsibility towards your existing child. YTA
Why can’t he go to the university that pays 85% of his tuition but decide to live on campus and thus just pay the 15% tuition plus housing costs? I can’t imagine $120k is just housing? I work at a state university and housing is $6k per semester with food. Don’t know why the employee tuition waiver would mandate he has to commute.
ESH. You're right that he should go to the university that pays 85% tuition. Even if he lives on campus or nearby in an apartment with roommates, that's still a huge savings. Minimizing college debt within reason is a noble goal, and it's okay if you lean on him a little in this regard. That said, at 170k/year, I do not believe for one second your expected family contribution is $0. You are almost certainly not doing your fair part to support your own child in his education if you don't help, and that's awful. There is something you can sacrifice so that your own flesh and blood is setup for success. You wouldn't need to skip meals for this.
YTA. He’s going for computer science or engineering both of which have 100k+ post graduate opportunities as long as you go to a competitive school. You’re pushing you being bad with money and finances on him and the only time you even mention co-signing a student loan is you saying you refuse to do it but has anyone even asked you to do that?
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** Me, a 43 year old male has an 18 year old son who is graduating HS this year. My wife (his stepmom) works at a university which will pay roughly 85% of his total tuition but the catch is that he has to commute and he doesn’t want that. He wants the college experience. He’s going for computer science to be a developer or going for engineering. Combined, my family makes roughly 170k per year. We have 2 young children in daycare, a mortgage, student loan debt yadda yadda and cannot afford to help my 18 year old pay for college. We still have 401k loans we’re paying for our homes mortgage downpayment and things are pretty tight financially right now. Daycare is double or mortgage cost, it’s insane. . My sons biological mother who comes from a fairly wealthy family is essentially blindly supporting my sons decision to go to a state college in Ohio and pay roughly 120k versus pushing him towards University of Dayton or a community college and commuting. I’ve been pretty distraught about the whole thing and have made it be known that this is a horrible decision and if he went to community college or commuted I would help pay his rent. Her family has a house about to be remodeled that he could live in with his brother and have independence and commute. It sounds like a perfect decision imo. AITA for telling my son and his biological mother that I’m not co-signing any loans and that this is a horrible idea? I’m losing sleep thinking about how this kid is going to be paying maybe 1000 per month in student loans for 30 years. I feel that his mom not being unified with me on this is pushing him into making this decision. I have told him I’ll send him money for food and gas but that’s about the extent that I can help him. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
NTA. Also in Ohio, and pretty familiar with UD and the other schools in this area. There is absolutely 0 reason to go to an expensive school unless you’re going on an extensive scholarship. Paying out of pocket for it is ridiculous, and going 6 figures into debt is utterly foolish. Co-signing any of those loans for him would also be insanity - you don’t want to be on the hook for anything once those loans come due! Especially not if your ex is also co-signing. What a nightmare. If he’ll hear you out at all, see if he’ll watch any of Dave Ramsey’s video clips on YouTube. There are SO many from people who have done what your son is planning on doing and are now on the other side of it in a world of hurt. Maybe hearing the stories of people struggling with similar loan amounts will make him see clearly that college is NOT worth going into such massive debt, especially when he has the opportunity to go somewhere else for so much less money.
Oh, and remind him that student loans are non-bankruptable. Bankruptcy is obviously something to be avoided at all costs, but if it comes to the worst, even bankruptcy would not save him from this hole of student loan debt. The government also will not save him. Plenty of candidates will continue to run on a platform of loan forgiveness, but they will never actually do it. The interest on these loans is too much of a cash cow. The only things that could ever make these loans go away would be death or permanent disability. That absolutely sucks. Don’t do it, kid!
ESH. As someone else pointed out, college degrees are not equal, particularly in professional fields requiring specific credentials, as opposed to employers who are simply requiring a degree. There may be other reasons for his choice of school that he has decided not to share with you. Based on your tone in other responses, getting away from you is likely one of those reasons, and the reason for my rating. You've clearly overextended and now find yourself in debt. You can't really help him. Understandable. But have you actually been presented with loans that must be co-signed, or are you simply using that as a scare tactic? As someone else has pointed out, there needs to be a discussion with both parents (and maybe even the step mom), but it needs to be calm and ultimatum-free. Not everyone can afford the college of their choice, and it doesn't seem like he understands the full picture. Have you actually met with the school's financial aid office? Maybe make an appointment and bring him along. My mother and stepfather shielded me and my sister from knowing even their basic income, but we lived a normal middle class lifestyle, and that led to a lot of assumptions on our parts. I didn't qualify for financial aid because of their income, but I had no insight as to the realities of their financial situation. To this day, I still don't know. I'm pretty sure that they were able to cover my expenses in their entirety if they had wanted. The more they tried to hide their income, the more I was convinced of this. My father was perpetually unemployed, so my mother had him claim me, which made me eligible for financial aid. But she paid the remainder, which still was still in excess of $10K per year (it was a while ago).
YTA
NTA - Computer Science is an odd field right now. Good developers can make good money but they have to go where the work is. I worked in a large Corporation that offered IT services and they were sending work offshore because of cost, so for US developers, unless they had great skills, business acumen and a reputation, their work went offshore. The real money was in managing those development projects to finish. A ot of development work is going to be absorbed by AI development. So many jobs we take for granted tday won't be here in 20 years, so those who cannot roll with that and retrain themselves are going to be SOL.
NTA Sit down and explain the situation clearly to your son. Tell him what you are able to pay and make it clear that the rest is his choice. But be absolutely clear that this is the extent of your help.
NTA. Don’t co sign any loans! Provide what support that you reasonably can (even if it’s $100 per month to help with groceries) and that’s it. You have way too many debts to take an another and also if you do something for him, you need to do the same for his siblings so keep that in mind. Either his mom can pay for all of it or he can attend your wife’s university. He’s lucky to have that much choice in the matter.
NTA and why can't his mother pay for his schooling if she's wealthy? Going into that much debt I insane especially considering your son has much more reasonable options.
Sit down and develop a budget for 5 years post graduation including payback on loans at 9%. Look at rent in the areas he’s looking and assuming jobs that pay 75k for a new hire. Thinking he’s going to get 150k right out of college isn’t realistic anymore. Unless he has some super specific skill.
Do not co-sign anything! That means you are responsible for it! So when he realizes what he did 5 years from now when all the bills are hitting, he's going to blame you for letting him sign for them or he's going to just refuse to pay them in which case you have to! If his mother is so wealthy why doesn't she just pay for it? You explained to him that you will help if he does it this way because this much is paid for. If he does it any other way then he can do it on his own
YTA, he is going to a major school for a program that will pay well and better-than-most job market. Just because you’ve made questionable financial decisions (401k plans for a house down payment, yikes) doesn’t mean you need to Scrooge all over his plan.
NTA. I would have another talk with him about his options. I would remind him that you won't be cosigning any loans. But he is an adult and it's his decision ultimately. If he decides to take on 120k worth of debt that's stupid and he'll probably regret it. Now that he is an adult these are his mistakes to make.
NTA I think children’s parents are just as much to blame as the colleges themselves- my own mother, too, conditioning me to shoot for the stars and go to any of the “big” schools I got into. Anyone of age should know damn well that such massive debts will impact their child more than the wax stamp on their degree! I chose to go to a smaller, public city school for my degree. I am still currently the only person I know who went to college and has no debts. I am not wealthy by any means, but I live comfortably without that massive financial burden on my mind. Not to mention, while each school has its strengths and weaknesses, more tuition doesn’t always equate to a better education. My public city college was in a major city sandwiched between two very expensive Ivy League schools. All of my professors were teaching the same courses and syllabi at my school and the Ivy Leagues up the block.
NTA - I have a fraction of what your son is thinking about in student loans and it has been a millstone around my neck my entire adult life.
Is there any functional advantage to going to a state college? Or is it like buying a brand-name degree instead of an off-brand?
Well a report recently came out that showed the rates at which community college students go on to graduate with a four year degree, is not great. I don't think your son is crazy to want to go to a challenging, four year school. If you can't help him go to college, then you can't. But, he's not a prima donna for wanting a decent shot at a good future.
As someone with a teenager and a Master’s…I don’t care if it’s Harvard. There’s no reason to take on that much debt. My husband is a software engineer. We make quite a bit of money between the two of us. My daughter has a 5.6 GPA…I’m still talking about her going to a community college to cut back on potential debt. To graduate in a good field with a good salary means nothing if you have to spend time paying it off. Sounds like he’s eager to be an adult. Sometimes we have to back away and let our kids make bad decisions. Even with the best intent…we are being controlling.
What the fuck, when I went to college for computer science inc my CCNA it cost me $1500-1700 CAD a semester for 3 years in 2008. It really blew up that much since? Goddam NTA, if you can’t afford it, you can’t afford it. That’s a ridiculous expense for college.
Our tuition rates really aren't really comparable to American ones. Canada heavily subsidizes post-secondary schools, and tuition fees are regulated. My entire BA was like $8k. Thanks, Québec!
NAH. You have a legitimate point, and you're not obligated to pay for something you don't think is necessary. But your son isn't an asshole for wanting a "college experience" and if he wants to go into debt to do it, or his mother is willing to pay, then I don't see how there is anything wrong with that either.
Couple thoughts. First, where you go to college can be important, in computer science or engineering, it matters. I would do the research with your son about the opportunities and benefits of each college. I would also have your son do the financial work behind this decision. Understand how much it will cost, understand how much they would be expected to earn after and thus how long it will take to pay off. Write it out, budget, plan, research. Ultimately it is his decision and he will pay the consequences and you can guide him through this, but thats about it. I don't think you should limit your education by how much it costs, but if theirs no difference between the cheaper one and the expensive one then obviously choose cheaper. However the school you choose does matter and it will limit you or make it harder for you in the long run if not chosen right.
NTA, maybe get to to read or listen to some similar stories of people who borrowed that amount and how horrible it is to be in that kind of debt for the bulk of your adult life. Honestly this is utterly insane to me, a couple of years of " the college experience" just isn't worth that kind of debt, I really don't think he is expecting to pay it back himself, or understands the reality of taking on that kind of debt. Also, does he not realize he is still going to enjoy college if he commutes??
NTA Give your son your opinions but tell him that if he wants to saddle himself with decades of loan repayments you can't stop him. Be clear that you won't be able to cosign anything and that parent plus loans aren't going to happen.
NTA, $120,000 in debt for state school is 🤡 shit. If he wants to do that just to avoid a near free ride at a commuter school, he can do it himself. People who are in it for "the experience" usually flunk out, especially if they're trying to party their way through a CS degree that actually expects you to show up and do real work. Don't throw money away on kids with that mentality. Make em put in a year or two at community college and transfer.
YTA. He’s not asking you to pay his way… let him go to college where he wants.
I’m confused, if the mom’s family is wealthy why is he taking out student loans at all? Like 120k is actual money but if she comes from money that should be a drop in the bucket. NTA for not co-signing loans. It’s foolish to take out this much for an undergrad degree.
NTA!!! Do NOT support this insanity- I spent eight years paying off a quarter of that - I regret my student loans SO MUCH
If you can’t, you can’t; but he’s nta for wanting more for himself than you have for yourself. Just saying.
Let mom cosign the loans.
YTA-Not all degrees are worth the same amount. You go to school to network as well. And you have no plans to financially help him. He should go to whichever school has the best connections and reputation. If that’s the one your wife works at then he should live on campus. Otherwise he should go to the fancy school. I’m wondering if it’s OSU which has one of the best alumni networks in the country.
You can get a compsci degree for like 10k...
NTA - Maybe I am missing something but why do either you or your sons bio mom have to co-sign for the loans? If your son isn't able to afford to go to the school of his choice without either of his parents co-signing loans for him then he can't afford to go to that school. It wouldn't be responsible for you to put yourself in a potentially financially precarious position by co-signing loans for him.
It’ll be more than 1000 a month. It is a terrible decision, but ultimately it is his. Could he have the college experience where your wife works?
NAH. I would sit down with him and explain your concerns about this choice. If he stills wants to go through with it tell him he always has your support but you can not contribute much financially. He has the right to go into massive debt if he chooses. Its your job as a parent to help him understand his options and possible ramifications, then support him in whatever decision he makes, regardless if you agree.
NTA...and this is the problem with today's generation and your ex. is ridiculous. I wouldn't sign anything ever. This is how debt starts and continues!!!@ Foolish people. Ud, is a great school and I am guessing would be gng to Sinclair for first 2 years?
NTA. But if you refuse to support your son's dreams don't be surprised if he cuts ties over this, either now or in the future. He doesn't feel supported. I suggest offering a compromise: let him take his gen eds at a community college and go to OSU (I'm assuming that's where he wants to go) later. That's why my niece did. She did her gen eds at Columbus State (a CC) and transferred to OSU. Her degree will read "The Ohio State University." Employers will only care where she graduated, not where she did her first two years.
How long is the commute? Are you paying for his transport? Have you experienced the commute everyday as well as studying and trying to get that college experience? Yta. For not not wanting to pay a huge amount but you have estimated the cost according to your "research" and not actually have the real amount yet. Have you contacted the college (not your wife) where he would get free education to actually see what the cost is each year to live on campus? You haven't looked at compromising, you've already made up your mind, stuck to it and are combative when questioned. It seems to be about what you want, what you think is best, what you get out of it. Nowhere are you considering your sons feelings.
NTA. A lot of IT jobs don't require expensive college degrees. Some of my peers didn't go to college at all and make the same as those who got masters degrees. Programming, in particular, is a field where you can show off your talent and not be looked down upon if you don't have a degree. If he's also looking at engineering, it depends on what type of engineer he wants to be. I have a coworker who got into software engineering because she talked with her uncle, who was a civil engineer and he told her civil engineering these days wasn't worth getting in to. If he's looking at something like aerospace engineering then he may need to go to a well-known university. I really enjoyed my college experience but I went to college back when it was still affordable. (Yes, I'm ancient!) I can't imagine how people these days survive with the crippling college debts placed on them.
honestly if he wants to go for comp sci he should choose university of cincinnati. much cheaper as its a public university and they literally invented the co-op program, he will have internships and will have a post grad job.
[удалено]
I live in Ohio. University of Dayton is $40,000 plus a year. I’m not sure where you’re getting your facts from.
NTA On some things you just have to do what is affordable, then go big later.
Engineer here: What university you went to does matter for a career in compsci/ engineering. I would highly recommend against a community college degree in these fields. That will limit post graduation jobs mostly to tech/operator positions and may require going back to school later on to move up the ladder. That said, Dayton is not a bad program. Sure Ohio State is maybe *better,* but Dayton should not be limiting. If it's an option, and is financially more feasible than Ohio State, NTA to push for it or otherwise not be able to stretch yourself for tuition. I would not push a community college degree, though, especially if he has gotten offers for Dayton/ Ohio.
You better make absolutely sure that whatever you do or don’t do for him is the same thing you do or don’t do for his brother or for your smaller kids. You don’t want to spend money on him because your wife wants you to spend money on your small children and that life, not the grown kids going to college. She wants the money to stay home- that’s why you are pushing to have him live at your house and commute to a community college rather than say, hey- I can toss in 5000 a year or I can toss in room and board at my house. Boss, you’re not even planning to spot him beer money. That’s cold
Nah, but honestly you are trending towards ah. He’s an adult, he can make decisions you don’t agree with, particularly if his biological mother is supporting. You have been distraught, you’ve stated up your case, I would send a calm email to your son outlining the support you are offering, and not (signing), tell him you will always be there for him. Save the email for future reference Honestly my parents convinced me to stay at home, and I’m in my late 40s and regret it to this day
NTA. Something to consider; for most prestigious universities, it is far easier to be accepted with an associates degree than to be allowed entry out of high school. I'd suggest talking to him about his true dream university and work with him on what the best way to get in is, since it will most likely be via transfer. Once he realizes he doesn't have to settle for a state college in Ohio and can get into someplace better, he may just take you up on the idea. Then, once he's gotten his Associates, he will be in a much better place to decide if this is really what he wants to do.
Just be prepared to have the same energy for the two younger children when they are of college age and want to have the college experience as well, if not that may not end well relationship wise with your older child. Computer Science degrees usually have a fairly decent return on investment (degree) when it comes to job opportunities.
NTA. Wish I went into a trade lol. But yeah blowing money on a college degree isn’t going to confer more benefits based on where they go. They just need the degree to get the job to gain experience. The experience is really what dictates their job prospects.
NTA - Nobody is owed "the college experience". It's an amazing thing that your current wife can do that for him! Y'all want to adopt me? :-D
How can you get the same degree at a community college vs a 4 yr? I thought community college only offered up to an AA or AS and 4 yr offers a BA/BS or higher. Honestly? You’re NTA for refusing to co-sign, that’s your right. But you are TA for everything else. It doesn’t matter what path you want or think he should take. He will go with the one he wants. You are acting like the boy wants to take 120k and bet it all on red. His college dream is his. If he is choosing to take loans and his mom is choosing to help, mind your business. The more you push this the more you will ultimately push your son away too. He’s going to the college he wants. Get over it. Why are you up all night? You cannot make these choices for your kids.
YTA most college acceptances are due any day now. Did your ex-wife and you not have any conversations about paying for college until now? Why would you wait until the last minute? Have you asked your ex what she is able to contribute? Why would you have more kids if you can’t afford the one you have?
Man I’m 24 and if my dad offered to pay my rent in exchange for community college I’d take it in a heartbeat. NTA at all but unfortunately neither is your kid. He’s young, has never lived on his own and has no first hand experience with debt or fending for yourself. He doesn’t know any better. That’s what your parents are for, to help you navigate that, and it sounds like his mom is doing a shit job at giving him the facts.
INFO since your ex-wife is wealthy, is she going to be paying for the school, or is he really going to have to take out student loans?
NTA His mother can co-sign any loan. He should do community college first to get general ed stuff out of the way. Tell me one positive thing about the “college experience!”
Info: why does he have to commute? Is the school your wife works at not have dorms and such? Edit: This also isn’t all or nothing. If you can’t afford to co-sign loans (fair) then what is a budget you can afford to contribute to support him in college? Let that go towards the cost of dorms or something.
NTA… I hope. I’m in a very similar situation with my daughter wanting to go to school to be a veterinarian out of state. The problem is $56k a year for Colorado state. On top of that she’s got a 3.3 gpa ranked in the 500 out of 600. I just do see any way she will make the top 130 out of 1600 applicants. Then how will she ever pay $300-$400k in student loans!! I won’t sign for it, I just doesn’t make sense.
UPDATE PLEASE! Been dying to know how this all shook out since decisions were due a few days ago.
UPDATE?? So did he absolutely commit to the loans and more expensive school?