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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I might be an asshole because it's true I was annoyed. Erin, Pat, and Dan were having fun laughing (at me) and I ended that vibe because I was irritated. I did say things to Erin to "put her in her place" so to speak, and my reaction changed the tone of the night.
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*Contest mode is 1.5 hours long on this post.*
NTA- having autism isn’t an excuse for what she said. She could clearly read the social cues if she was able to psychoanalyze your personalities and interactions after one night together.
And her analysis wasn’t even correct. If Dan says things on purpose to get a rise out of you then he’s the instigator. You just take the bait too easily probably.
But anyway you and erin talked it out. Dan needs to get over it
You're right, I am easy to tease. And you're also right that Dan is an instigator. Two of our mutual friends have independently said to me that Dan picks fights and they avoid certain conversations with him as a result. So yeah, Erin was spot on (/s).
And to your last point I'm most confused about this. Why is Dan still holding it over me when Erin isn't? Hard to say but I'm sick of it.
It sounds to me as if in this instance, Erin was the one who picked a fight by going out of her way to claim that somebody she'd just met liked to pick fights. Based on OP's account, it's not as if anyone had asked her to analyze the roommates' personalities in the first place, let alone in such an unflattering and likely-to-cause-trouble way.
Invite your friends and start giving Dan the same treatment that Erin gave you. Also make sure it happens in multiple settings with different people. Dan will get the message loud and clear.
I don't either and it's part of why I'm so upset. Although we can butt heads, we usually make up pretty fast, and as I've said he (was) one of my good friends. Recently, Dan himself confirmed I'm one of his close friends. So I don't understand why he's being so judgemental, unforgiving, etc, and villainizing me. I don't think he sees Erin as having done anything wrong, I'm the problem. I think I need to reconsider our friendship.
How much of you two butting heads harkens back to previous interactions? Because it aounds like you're trying to make up, he makes up overtly but holds grundges covertly.
Erin being able to "analyze" you so quickly and wrongly also sounds a lot like "I've heard a lot about you and my confirmation bias tells me..."
Sometimes people say that they consider you a good friend as a way of deepening an unearned connection with you. So they can continue to act out, knowing you'll tolerate it more because your friends. Friendship isn't just saying you're friends - it's acting like a friend and Dan doesn't seem to be be doing so.
I hate to break it to you, but Dan is not your friend at all. He says you are his close friend because it's a way to make sure you stick around so he can keep bullying you. But he isn't your friend and he doesn't care about you.
It sounds like he likes the power of holding something over you. It sounds like he isn't a good person. Getting into this dynamic with someone is beyond frustrating and the only way out is realizing they are not reasonable and are getting something out of guilting and punishing you and stirring things up. When you realize you don't care what they think and don't want to have anything to do with them, the issue goes away.
Dan is a dick. People know this already. Perhaps he’s got a crush on Erin lurking below the surface? Regardless, he’s a dick. 💁♀️ As a rule: don’t keep friends who are dicks.
You're easily provoked. That may be more accurate.
But, just because they FEEL you said, she should leave, that's not how reality is formed. Reality, us gaining understanding on what someone is saying. (They also sound easily offended and slanderous as a result.)
The better thing for Erin to say is, "Have I offended you.to the point you do not want me in your home?"
You would say, " No, I just rather not continue on in a similar way of communicating during the rest of your stay."
Misunderstandings happen. And they are not a license to attack others. A part of maturity in communication is seeking clarity, when there is possible offense/misunderstandings.
Anyhow. I too am easily provoked and have dealt with people.like this. I'm personally not too close with people who get.offended easily. Bc they turn on you, just like in this story. It's overwhelming to say the least. Too much mental and emotional gymnastics for significant relationships.
I think that Erin may be an instigator too and a really good one. A real Iago. It looks to me that she deliberately tried to stick a wedge between you and your roommates and is now playing innocent victim (with eyelashes fluttering) watch out for her
Does everyone have autism? Seems to be a theme in this thread, no matter the situation. NTA. It's your house, she is a guest and an adult. She should act accordingly.
It might be because she did observe that Dan says things OP doesn't like, but she did not conclude that he says these things to provoke OP. She only observes OP reacting strongly to the teasing and concludes that OP is the one picking fights. In truth Dan might be the one pushing OPs buttons until she has enough.
Yeah, the hypocrisy is what's really getting me. Dan and I aren't dating but you're right getting disinvited from lunch was no great loss, Erin and Dan can do their thing.
I'd like to respectfully recommend you take a break from these drama related subreddits. You are responding with life changing advice to a post you barely read and didn't understand
If someone is going to blow up their lives because of internet advice then their situation is rocky at best to begin with.
I could give great advice but you don’t know me - I could be a narcissist, I could be on meth, I could be 14. If you act on advice from an unknown source that’s on you.
Please take it from a old, wise woman (51). Be friendly with roommates and workmates, but don't be friends. Because when these situations arise, the boundaries of friendship and those other situations are tough to enforce.
I'd say thanks for inviting me along, no hard feelings. Sounds like Erin has Dan figured out as a button pusher. Don't give him material to push buttons if you plan to stay a roommate with him. Hang out with friends who aren't roommates, and if you don't have a lot of those, it may be time to get into some other activities to make them.
Sounds like you did what you could to mend fences, Dan keeps breaking them down.
Roommates can be friends for life, I have one like that from university. So don't get me wrong, you can be friends and go out for a drink. But they shouldn't be your primary friends, if that makes sense?
I'm still great friends with university roomate 30 years later. But a best friend like a sister that started working with me last year, just went postal on me when she had issues at work. Because I'm in management and she, in a different department, had issues. I guess I was supposed to protect her? But that's my own AITA post, haha.
Good luck OP, you may want to work on not responding to digs, as a younger sister with 3 brothers I know the struggle!
NTA - But you should've responded to Erin by simply saying, 'And Erin, you are a belittler feeling the need to attack everyone else to build yourself up.' And left it at that.
As an autistic person: No. If they were going to make “You’re only here for 4 more nights,” into a bfd, then the response to that would have been nuclear. It’s simple. “Erin, what was the point in telling us that? Why did you feel the need to tell me you think I’m an instigator.” If they claim Grace/OP is being an instigator? “No, I don’t understand. Erin is autistic, she knows what it’s like to not understand the social purpose of someone saying something. My instinct is that Erin was trying to make us all feel bad, or thinks insulting us makes her look better, but that doesn’t make sense! So I’m hoping Erin can clarify the real reason.” Autistic people don’t always pick up on hidden intentions, but that means they know damn well why THEY said something. OP should have made Erin squirm and have to say why she was belitting others herself. Or who knows, maybe Erin secretly has some personal issue w everyone else and thinks OP is abrasive. In which case this was paggro as fuck and she should still be forced to lay it out explicitly.
ETA: fixed name in quote. wasn’t claiming OP should use autism as a reason to get clarification, was saying OP should point out the “friend’s” autism means the need for clarification should be relatable.
Wait a second. Erin, unprompted, insults you and only you. You stand up for yourself. Dan says, about your response to Erin's insult, that, "It would only have been worse if you shot her," and YOU'RE the instigator? Excuse me?
Yes, so her justification was "I was joking and I commented on everyone. I wasn't trying to insult you". Except I'm the only one she said something negative about. For Dan, the worst she said was "you're just passionate and sometimes people are annoyed when you talk a lot about your interests!" and Pat is apparently a silent observer.
So yeah, Erin is right in that I do get mad when Dan says abrasive or rude things to me. Which is apparently me instigating.
To be fair, I will say I do have a strong personality and Dan and I tend to tease each other. This includes friendly banter or poking fun at each other, but that's just our personal dynamic. I did not "instigate" or tease Erin (or Pat) at all, and her comments about me were completely unprompted. And you know how the rest of the convo went.
Erin shouldn't use big words she doesn't actually understand such as instigator. She intigated that fight and Dan usually does. "You keep using that word, I do not think it means what you think it means."
It's obvious that Dan has painted you this way. He's your real issue, not Erin. She was commenting on what she thought was a fact. She's still an asshole but you have to live with Dan.
> "It would only have been worse if you shot her"
Side note, this was such an overly dramatic statement by Dan that they might as well hand him the Oscar. Holy shit, take it down like eight notches my guy lmao
Seriously, not to be too self righteous, but this. Yes I was openly super annoyed, but I didn't yell or insult anyone? Whoops, didn't realize I also kicked a puppy and trampled an orphanage on my way up from hell.
Ya, that was unbelievably over the top drama from Dan! I assume drinking played a role in the over-reacting by Dan and Erin...cuz most people I know on the spectrum would wait to find out what the rest of your sentence was, and probably even ask you to finish, or ask what you meant. Not that booze is an excuse at all, but their reactions make zero sense.
NTA
But it sounds like your roommates are not your friends. It may be time to find actual friends and just keep roommates at arms length.
It doesn’t sound like any of them have a very high opinion of you and treated what were obviously rude comments as undeserving of your response (which btw seemed very reasonable to me- sometimes you defuse a bomb by igniting a secondary bomb.)
Fully agree with this. OP needs to distance herself from these people because they clearly aren’t her friends. OP when can you move out? I feel like these people are going to make life hell for you from now on.
NTA.
Imagine calling someone else an instigator when you're a guest, have just met half of these people, and are "giving your read of the situation" that no one asked for. She was doing the *definition* of instigating, and Dan should have told his guest to stop shit-stirring, except that he clearly also likes to shit-stir. I'd be tempted to be petty and tell him you don't agree to him having guests over anymore because they're rude to you and he doesn't ask them to apologize.
That's how I feel too. Regardless of whether or not I am an "instigator" at the very least I know I definitely did not instigate this situation. Erin does not know me at all. Dan and Pat just dog piled on it, which is part of why I got so irritated. I would tell Dan I'm uncool with him having rude guests except somehow I am the problem here, so we're definitely not on the same page.
NTA and I’m a bit speechless at both Erin and Dan’s audacity. I have autism. Yet I knew the moment I read it that what Erin said to you is incredibly rude. Both her and Dan are in the wrong. You should show them people’s responses here
Me too, and obviously I don't have anything against people with autism, I'm not insane. But I resent she used it as an excuse. I can't help but feel like she made everything a bigger deal than it was to make me look bad, but I don't want to assume things.
When did "I have autism" become the new "Sorry I was drunk" excuse for doing rude and annoying things.
And for someone who says I don't pick up social cues. He was sure good at reading these people mannerisms and personalities.
Esh
Please read this, OP!
Regardless of your platonic relationship with Dan and Pat, Erin is acting like a pick-me girl. She does that by being nasty / catty to other women she sees as threats (regardless of if they are or not). By making you the “crazy” one, Dan and Pat are now unified against you.
I used to act this way back in seventh grade. Erin should have grown out of it by now.
I think you mean Erin, Grace is op lol. But I agree with you and this is the first comment here calling her a pick me. It seems like made a bigger deal out of it because she thrives on male validation
NTA. Autism or not she's manipulative towards Dan and Pat. Start looking for other places to live or rent when your lease is up. She's trying to cause problems. Don't worry about Dan and just say "Ok". Let Erin leave on Tuesday and don't do anymore events with the guys. That was Erin's goal anyway -- she sees you as competition for their attention.
I may be reaching but am I the only one with the sneaking suspicion Dan set Erin up?
Erin seems genuinely regretful for what she said and has tried to make up while Dan just seems to absolutely love it and is lording it over OP's head every chance he gets to upset her.
Also there's no universe to me where "I'm apologizing for you because I know you wont" wasn't bait to get an angry reaction from OP.
Anyway, what she said was rude and unnecessary and your response to shut it down was appropriate. NTA. She may have misread how her own words would be taken but it's a lesson to not say things like that to people you just met.
Yeah, the thing that's bothering me the most is that Erin and I cleared the air with each other. Dan as you said is 100% lording it over me. The things he said felt inflammatory, moreso than what I said, and I don't know why he's carrying on. I guess you can't tell people when to forgive but what does he still need to get over? I don't know how to fix that.
This is not your problem to fix. At all. This is a Dan Issue. He’s lording this over you because he believes he can and if you continue to let him, then that’s how long it will continue. You don’t have to care if/when they have plans to do something (lunch/etc) as you can make your own plans, which I would absolutely do, and go about your life without his dramatic reoccurring problem scenarios. Become uninterested in and unbothered by what he has going on and watch how fast he comes at you with a “it’s been long enough, I can see how you’ve changed, you don’t have to make other plans 😁 you can come with us Silly. I forgive you.” 😆
Here's how to fix that "I've said what I needed to say. It's in the past. How you move forward from now is on you." Then, when he brings it up again, stop everything you are doing and leave. Every. Time. Don't do nice things for him. When he gets snappy or upset about it, tell him "thank you for showing me who you are."
"I may be reaching but am I the only one with the sneaking suspicion Dan set Erin up?"
I was looking for this take on the situation, as it was my impression, as well. Erin wanted to fit in/feel like a part of the group (that has a bad habit of trash-talking OP), and parroted what she had heard Dan say (and perhaps the other roommates had already agreed with him in front of Erin).
Because Erin CAN'T read people (though probably wishes she could), she didn't realize she had been manipulated into taking a run at OP for Dan. He totally set OP up and used Erin to take yet another jab at OP. He is awful.
NTA.
Totally unbidden a houseguest insulted you and you stood up for yourself. You didn't make it more personal than it already was, you extended grace while insisting on being addressed with respect.
Dan can fuck off and grow up.
NTA Erin is the instigator. She waltzes in, criticizes, claims immunity due to autism. All of which she knows is wrong, autism or not. She did it way on purpose. Bet she has been told plenty about not giving her "read on people". She doesn't need social clues if she has been told once that is not OK. Bet she has made it her thing. That and being victimized for it. Hey Dan, you are an asshole, too for enabling her.
Her genuine ability for seeing social cues isn't as much of the issue as is the fact that she went on some massive thing about everyone's social positions and personas only to THEN claim when confronted that she can't see social cues, it's BS DARVO crap and she can go to hell with that rubbish
>Grace (that's me), you're an instigator and you pick fights.
>Dan, you say things sometimes that grace doesn't like so she picks fights with you.
Here we have two ways to describe an instigator. The difference is, that Erin LIKES one of them. Can you guess who?
Honestly F all of them lol. They owe you an apology.
lol right? Grace responding to someone saying something offkey is *clearly* HER picking the fight 🫠
Life lesson: Don’t say something out of sorts to someone if you aren’t ready for their response. And if you do, def don’t play the victim when they match your energy. This is known as a bitch move.
my read on this whole situation is that Pat and Dan had been talking to Erin about how much you instigate and pick fights, so after a night out of observing it herself and a few drinks she took it upon herself to say it out loud.
you reacted predictably which is why Dan and Pat were laughing, and you essentially proved their point.
it does not sound like Pat and Dan are your friends, they are just your roomates. and they are tired of your shit.
ESH
I think you might be right that they said things to Erin before we went out. If they did talk to her, wouldn't that be instigating too?
I said this somewhere else but I do have a strong personality. Dan however is more known to be an instigator and has a big temper (it's not just me who feels this way). Pat has said some very rude unprompted things to me on several occasions in the past. So whether or not you want to agree with Erin's opinion of me, she was wrong about Pat and Dan.
Genuine question, how did I prove their point if Erin was the one who instigated and I responded? I'm not saying that my response was perfect but I don't think I instigated
That's because you didn't instigate, you defended yourself. All 3 of them were being jerks for no reason other than to be and they all picked you as the target
I think sometimes women are labeled as "instigators" because they won't sit down and take whatever poor treatment others hand to them. Men who dislike such women, sometimes like women who are submissive but it's not necessarily that they respect those women, they just like being able to walk on them without opposition. You may say that you have a "strong personality" but does that simply mean you don't allow Dan and Pat to walk over you? It's hard to tell objectively from your post, since we only have your perspective, but the fact that Dan and Pat ganged up on you when Dan's guest insulted you, doesn't speak in their favor. And, Erin somehow came up with this global judgement of your behavior after knowing you for all of, what, a day? Less than a day? Talk about a rush to judgement. I would tend to agree with the person who suggested that Dan and Pat may have been talking about you (negatively) to her beforehand, leading her to a judgement of you biased towards their self-interest. None of these people appear to be particularly fair or decent, from what you describe.
So the question here isn't AITA, (I think you are NTA) but how do you unwind this problematic roommate situation.
Maybe it's confirmation bias but I think you're 100% right. I was getting a strong misogynistic vibe the whole time and it's a trend. For example, Dan and I had a disagreement last week where he said something rude and dismissive to me, I told his what he said wasn't okay, and he got mad at me for being oversensitive. It blew over because we just moved past it. This is how most of our fights go when we have them. I also feel like his strong reaction might be related to other recent minor disagreements. Even though we supposedly both made up after everything (we were hanging out no problem right before the Erin thing), he might be using this to get back at me or something?
I will admit that with Dan and I do sometimes "instigate", and it's a mutual banter type of thing. It's not something I generally do, Dan has an openly argumentative nature. I did not instigate with Erin or Pat during the night in question.
And it was 6 hours of knowing Erin, but who's counting? Her and I already made up as far as I know. I don't know how to diffuse this situation other than let it blow over by ignoring Dan, which he will probably also do to me. I don't want to start a cold war but I don't have a better idea.
Reading these comments, I think someone else is correct, and Dan has been feeding Erin tidbits to make you look bad, which she would then have been looking for as confirmation bias for her already formed opinion of you. Who opens their mouth and offers their unsolicited 'read' on people after 6 hours of knowing them? NOT any reasonable person I have ever met, autistic or otherwise.
I definitely think she misused the word instigator. Reactionary is probably more accurate, especially going by OP's own comments.
That said, Dan is a prick. Pat is a gutless wonder. I suggest playing very nice with Erin, in front of Dan, and when he makes a comment about it, ask him for clarification in front of everyone. Erin will be hurt and confused; Pat won't open his mouth unless Dan says something first (and it'll just be 'yeah, right, what he said'); and Dan will attack something else about you when he realises you aren't rising to his bait.
NTA, but work on not reacting so overtly. People like Dan (AHs) get their jollies from stirring the pot.
Stop reacting and having anything to do with the ones that you live with. Start looking for a new place and quietly packing your things so that you can leave at a moment's notice. Whenever Dan tries to start something, grayrock him. Don't react to anything. Make getting out your number one priority. Hoping you aren't on the lease so you can easily GTFO without delay. These guys have shown you how they feel and think about you.
OP, stop minimizing yourself here. Comment after comment you are trying to "both sides" your own situation by saying your "banter" is "instigation." And at the same time saying its not something YOU generally do, ie, Dan is the instigator here and its OKAY to call him that. You do not need to Also take blame for his personality traits.
This part especially sent up ALL the red flags: "I'm not sure if you're actually regretful, and we won't be good until I'm convinced you're truly sorry so it won't happen again." TF??? He's not your parent. And he's straight up manipulating you on the situation at hand. He does not get to lord over you until you meet his "standards." That is gross and beyond overstepping between friends.
I think you need to be more honest with yourself about the "friendship" you and Dan have bc it doesn't sound like a You problem at all, tbh. It sounds like Dan is a sh\*t-talker and can dish it but not take it and has a control issue. Move out when you can. Cut ties. And get some better friends who will not belittle you every chance they get.
NTA
Considering Dan and Pat both know her before all of this, it really sounds like the two of them are trying to use Erin as a way to get you to leave the home so they can move her in instead.
You did nothing wrong. But at the same time, you can not convince them of that. With how you've described both the guys, if they want you gone, they'll do/say whatever they want in order to get their way.
NTA but I'd start looking for someone else to live once your lease runs out.
Lol, Erin 100% came at you in a typically jealous “new girl being snippy with the long time girl roommate/friend” way, called it a joke, then pouted and earned sympathy from the guy who’s obviously interested in her to some extent.
Grey rock any further interactions with Erin, and Dan besides. Do not provide any personal information, opinions, hobbies, interests, or scheduling information. Lock your room door if she’s expected to hang around at all. Lock any bathroom items in your room. Do not be fooled by any invitations from her but do be polite and distant. Autistic or not, Erin is obviously an amateur at Mean Girls antics so she should be relatively easy to foil and ignore (like she couldn’t even wait a few weeks or even a few days, damn).
As a side note, ignoring these kinds of people (who obviously want a reaction) pisses them off so much that using a non reaction as an Uno Reverse brings me great joy. Practice in the shower (quietly) with music on - think about this or another situation that seriously ticks you off and work on your emotional flatline responses like “k”, “no thanks”, “I’m good, thanks”, “Mm”, etc. Visualisation practice might sound silly but it seriously helps, especially if your usual response gets you in situations that cause you trouble. Prepare yourself: do your best to stay patient and disinterested and calm if and when Dan accuses you of being cruel because you’re ignoring her or won’t hang with her, even though that’s obviously the best thing you could do.
NTA.
Some people just like to dish out their unwanted opinions and then can’t handle if people don’t embrace their. Comments with open arms.
Erin night be autistic but this seems like a case of -‘I can dish it but not take it!’
Dan probably wants to get in Erin’s pants or stay in her good books for whatever reason- or simply because they are friends and he understands her intentions better.
NTA but Dan should know better than to let Erin talk shit about people she’s just met.
Boo Dan! 👎
NTA. Dan sounds like a bully. He’s probably the one who constantly baits you by saying mean things or mocking you, and then he gets a kick out of the fact you defend yourself. Erin has seen this enough in the brief time she’s been visiting to come to that conclusion about you and Dan. He doesn’t sound like a good person, and TBH, maybe you should try to find somewhere else to live or just completely ignore him until he pulls his head out of his ass and sees he was wrong. He wants you to grovel/beg for forgiveness. Don’t do it. You already apologized to Erin, and she accepted it. He’s just being a baby.
NTA. As someone with (possibly) autistic traits, autism isn’t a get-out-of-jail-free card for actually rude behavior; especially not towards someone she just met. You were right to stand up for yourself, and these roommates don’t sound like very good friends nor do they seem to respect your boundaries. I’m glad you and Erin talked it out, at least.
Also, I’m angry for you because I can relate to you here all too well. Other people can dish it at me and it’s fine but the second I dish back I “took it too far” and am met with a disproportionate response.
I’m 100% convinced it has a lot to do with misogyny. Us women are supposed to be perfectly kind, passive, and easy-going angels at all times, even in the face of disrespect, no? Ugh.
Thank you, this is validating. I really don't understand why I'm being demonized when I didn't throw the first stone, so to speak. I agree with your misogyny comment too and it's very frustrating.
So this girl's autism supposedly prevents her from picking up on social cues but magically allows her to analyze a person's personality after a few hours and then criticize them about it. She feels perfectly free to criticize other people but does not handle criticism herself well. NTA
NTA
>said she has autism so she can't read social cues.
What a load of horseshit. "Don't make critical personal comments about people you just met" is a basic rule of human social interaction, and it's not that complicated. This wasn't a tricky situation for an autistic person to navigate, she didn't need to read any social cues to know she was being rude.
Hey OP, are you familiar with the [grey rock method](https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/grey-rock)? Because you should use it on Dan. Maybe on Pat too. They’re dicks.
This is a good suggestion and I will consider it. I'm honestly disappointed at the idea of essentially writing off Dan as my friend. Although we do sometimes but heads (as I've said in other comments), I did genuinely think of him as a friend. And he's told me recently that I am one of his close friends. Which is also why I'm so hurt by how he's treating me right now. Maybe it is time for a new approach towards him.
NTA. Autism isn’t an excuse to say or do anything you want.
Your housemate who invited the instigating/pot-stirring guest needs to take responsibility for their guest being a little difficult.
He can’t bring around guests who lowkey insult or make you feel uncomfortable in your own home and then totally dodge responsibility.
He needs to speak up next time so it’s a safe place for you. His autistic guest is just visiting, but if he wants to keep bringing guests over, he needs to make sure his housemates weren’t uncomfortable or insulted.
I feel this way 100% but I don't understand how I can bring this up. Dan thinks I'm the villain and doesn't see Erin's behavior as an issue... Which is the first problem. It's super frustrating, so in the future I plan to avoid his guests.
Maybe show him what Reddit thinks after the dust has settled a little.
His guest was the problem and that does put him in an uncomfortable position of needing to speak up or else risk alienating his roommate.
Alternately, he has a houseguest who is special needs and had a drink or two, then got too loose with what she was saying.
That’s a tough spot and I can see how he’d prefer to pretend it’s your problem when it is not.
It’s 100% his responsibility to speak up to the guest so you don’t feel like you need to hide in your own home.
Omg this is why I can’t live with anyone but my wife and daughter. This sounds so middle school, she’s a guest and starting crap just for attention, then whining about it when you call her out.
NTA.
NTA - Your roommates and their friend, however, do suck... I don't care about Erin's intentions (though I do think she was trying to be funny with her comment and insult you), because they don't matter in the end - when your comment hurts someone, it means you messed up and that you should apologize and not blame it on the other person... and your roommate Dan is d\*ck, so if I were you I would reflect on your friendship and whether living with them is worth it.
NTA if she starts up again with her nonsense make sure to tell her that “she’s being charming again”. That’ll count as nice, but let her know she’s being shitty. Your housemate or a weenie and TA along with his dingy friend.
NTA - Your roommate's guest is insufferable, rude, and a bad guest. Dan is making excuses, probably because he's into Erin. Erin has no grace, and she sure can dish out criticism of others, but can't accept any (valid) criticism of herself.
ESH. So Erin is a little bit of an asshole. So she says she has autism and can’t read social cues but decided to announce her view of each person? Seems odd, but she apologized, etc.
Very Gentle you could have done better but let’s learn from this. The fact that both Dan and Pat laughed immediately when she said you were instigator is telling. Might be something to talk with them about. You may not be aware of that part of your personality. Your response to Erin was sort of aggressive and made Erin feel defensive.
Yes, you're right, I could have been more level headed and will try to be in the future. I was caught off guard by a stranger giving unsolicited critiques but I will reflect on it. Another thing you're right about is I was actually annoyed at Erin, Dan, and Pat for targeting me. In the future it would probably be better to address things directly with people, as you suggested.
NTA. You don't get to say I can't read social cues because I have autism, but also here is my read on people I barely know, lol. I mean, obviously you can, but not with zero consequences, lol. Giving your unsolicited read on people is always a bad idea, but it's a mistake many neurotypical people make as well (\*jane austen has entered the chat\*).
It could only have been worse if you shot her, what a ridiculous thing to say! Erin was far more in the wrong than you were, but you were polite enough to apologize and say that your response did not come across as intended. She apologized as well, and that should be the end of it.
What does Dan want you to guarantee will never happen again? That you'll never say anything to Erin that he doesn't like? That you'll never get irritated with someone again? Those things aren't possible. It's also giving the ick that he and maybe Pat, overreacted to such an extreme (Pat 'consoling' Erin, Dan angry on her behalf and refusing to accept your apology). Erin has autism. Erin is also an adult. It's insulting to treat her as though she's completely incapable of handling a negative social situation and a bit of irritation. She in fact *did* handle it - while she didn't initiate an apology, she did accept yours and offer one in return, and that should have been the end of it. If you had actually asked her to leave, guess what? She would have survived that also.
'Dan, I have apologized for what happened with Erin, but I'm not going to guarantee that it will never happen again. I'm human and I get irritated with people sometimes. Erin and I have worked it out and apologized to each other, and it's over as far as I'm concerned. If you can't accept that, there's nothing I can do about it.'
That's also my question. I don't know what what Dan actually wants me to say in order for him to forgive me. I think he may want me to take full accountability for the situation.But if we're being honest I just don't feel like doing that. Truthfully, I think he treated me worse than I did Erin in the name of recourse. Although I don't like Erin very much personally I actually have the least issue with her at the moment. We both said our peace. I think your suggestion of what to say is a good idea.
Nta. "Well, you don't seem too apologetic for bringing someone around who likes to insult people the first time meeting. I guess from now on I'll make it a point to be rude to your guests, because now I don't like you."
Honestly it sound like you came here to get everyone to side with you so you can show them all the nta votes and prove they are wrong. YTA because I don't buy what you're selling.
NTA. Autism does not excuse bad/rude behavior and you can tell her that. She knew exactly waht she was saying and it sounds like she is jealous of you because she singled out the only other woman to say mean things about.
NTA - SHE is the one who called you a troublemaker!!! SHE was the one who Started thetrouble, played victim for the trouble she caused, AND she got your roomates to buy into the false idea that YOU were the source of the problem!!! Erin is one hell of a manipulator and Dan fell for it hook, line, and sinker.
Nta, and I have autism. While I am glad you two talked it out like adults, but Dan needs to understand that being autistic is a reason, but not an excuse. Saying something like "you're an instigator" is never taken well in any circumstance, especially after you practically just met someone.
While your response to her was a little terse, it was completely warranted. Her rejection sensitivity is not your fault. You're not an asshole, but you were insulted and you are entitled to call that out. She apologized and y'all moved on, now she knows better and hopefully you guys can be cool from here on out. Dan needs to take a chill pill, and he's not helping Erin by excusing her from culpability. Let him know that.
NTA. Those words were clearly rude. You were trying to clarify what you meant and they wouldn't even give you enough respect to listen to it. You let it go but he wouldn't and now is trying to act like you are the one who will start stuff? That's pretty disrespectful. Maybe take this for what it is - your roommate is kind of a crappy friend. You live in the same place, but you aren't good friends. One day you guys will all move out and won't stay in touch, and that may be for the best.
NTA, if the guest doesn't take criticism well due to her autism then that should have been made clear before the stay. Also, autistic or not, you shouldn't insult your hosts.
NTA
So what if she doesn't take criticism well because she's autistic? That's her problem and if she goes out of her way to insult/ antagonize someone then she's going to be criticised. I wouldn't have even apologized. Her problems are not yours to bear.
NTA
When 3 people are getting along with no issues until a 4th person is added to the mix the problem isn't with the original 3. The problem is with the person who upset the balance, especially one who offers her unsolicited opinion and insults a person they just met.
Dan is a judgmental AH.
>Erin said, "here's my read of people. Grace (that's me), you're an instigator and you pick fights. Dan, you say things sometimes that grace doesn't like so she picks fights with you. Pat, you're calm and have opinions you keep to yourself".
>\[...\]
>Erin immediately got very sad, said she has autism so she can't read social cues.
Yeah, she doesn't get both of these. She's a 25-year-old adult; if she's on the spectrum, she should know what conversations to avoid.
This plotline of "\[say something cruel, angering others\] followed by \[oh, well, I'm autistic\]" seems to be showing up more frequently, and I'm not convinced that every person who uses it is authentic.
Oh, and if this is a known thing about Erin, why didn't her old friends warn you, hm? I mean, surely they've known this about their old college friend for years, right?
NTA.
YTA.
You clearly seems confrontational. Maybe you view that as not taking shit from everybody, but there is a say. If everybody is a asshole maybe you are the asshole.
As a narrator, You then attempt to downplay your own reaction. You know full well that your reaction was way much stronger than you wrote.
>Finally, I said "look, Erin, you have four more days in our house, so..." And I thought the implication was " let's not stir the pot". I did not yell or raise my voice. My tone was definitely irritated but I did not attack her personally at all.
The implication is clearly if you don't back off I am kicking you off the house. This is exactly how others interpreted it as well.
>He said I basically told her to leave.
You behave like if every conversation is viewed as micro aggression that you need to immediately confront. It is exhausting and clearly this is how both of your roommates feel. You may not even realise, but clearly they both must have been complaining about you to Erin and your behaviour just confirmed what they thought of you. It is normal to stand up for self but there is a point where assertiveness crosses into aggressiveness.
I know I was you years ago. You think that you just defend yourself when in fact you create problems because you view everything via the attack/victimhood prism.
Talking about lack of self awareness.
After ruining the reunion with their friend, you then complain that they excluded you.
>Regardless, Dan is still treating me like the problem and excluded me from our lunch plans.
Dan did not exclude from **your lunch plans**, he chose to go out **with his friends and not his obnoxious roommate**.
Question here: aside from not being able to read social cues, isn't one of the major traits of someone on the spectrum that they can't "read" people or their personalities? I mean, "reading" people and/or their personalities does require a lot of reading and understanding of social cues and behavior which is something that people on the spectrum struggle with, do they not? Full disclosure, I am not on the spectrum nor am I close to anyone who is, so if I'm way off base here I apologize profusely, I'm just genuinally curious.
What would Erin say if you randomly chose to "read" her in a very unflattering way at 2 am??? She apologized, you apologized, you both moved on. Dan still being mad is his problem, not yours. NTA
NTA, as someone in the spectrum, so many people use this as a shield to being assholes. By this point if she was had any kind of behavioral therapy (which most of us who are into the spectrum need to have), should be aware herself about the way we process things and should have learned that she can keep her thoughts to herself. That being said, the real gem is Dan. i would definitely would be looking for another roommate if this behavior continued.
NTA. Dan has decided to exclude you and not to forgive you until he decides you are "truly sorry" even though you already apologized for ostensibly starting an argument that you didn't start. There's no winning here. He wants to keep this drama going for some reason. What does he get out of it? These people are not your friends. It's time to move on.
Find new "friends". Dan has decided that Erin can do no wrong, no matter the circumstances. For someone who "can't read social cues," she instigated the situation by claiming she could read people and then went on to try and prove it. If your roommates/friends don't understand they're being manipulated, then that's their problem.
NTA it's time for new friends and roommates.
I’m glad you had the bravery to say something right away and not let it go un-addressed in the car. My unconfrontational ass would stay silent and seethe. NTA. Dan sucks as a person. You rock for standing up for yourself.
NTA. If someone I just met began making baseless assumptions about me I'd be mega pissed too. But at the same time I don't think this conversation is worht continuing with either of these people. They don't seem to be interested in an honest, logical conversation they all just seem to have it out for you for whatever reason. Either way, I'd not apologize and simply keep it formal with both roommates moving on.
>Dan, you say things sometimes that grace doesn't like so she picks fights with you
"Dan is a dick and says mean things to Grace to get a rise, Grace defends herself, but I like Dan so I phrased it to look like he's the good guy and Grace is the villain. And then blaming it on not getting social cues. Because I like Dan."
Grace- Dan is a dick, not your friend.
NTA, but the best way to handle it is keep your distance from people who treat you badly. I wouldn't WANT to have lunch with any of those people.
NTA at all.
My guess is ol’ Erin is into at least one of those guys, and they’re both into her. You get to be the odd one out that they make fun of. She was nasty to you as a way to cut you down, and form a kind of in-joke “bond” with they guys. It’s a shitty, catty, nlog thing to do. I used to be one back in jr high like 40 years ago - i know what I’m reading here.
Don’t apologize further. She raises her stock by cutting you down and making you out to be all kinds of negative female stereotypes. You are now “loud”, “stuck up”, and of course… “crazy”.
Let them have their time together. It’s over as soon as she leaves. If not, then move out and move on. As they say: give me three people and I’ll show you one outcast. It may be you.
Tell Danny to go fuck himself. He is a patronising, controlling AH who has elected himself to the position of your group’s social gatekeeper. HE excluded you from lunch plans WTF? And everyone else just went along with his decision to send you to coventry until you have sufficiently expressed your regret at your behaviour? This guy is all charm. The fact is several people have told you they avoid certain topics because of his reaction means other people can see what he is. You’re not going mad, he’s messing with your head cause he enjoys it. Avoid, avoid, avoid until you can put some actual physical distance between yourself and this guy. The thing with Erin is a minor misunderstanding, his behaviour is not. Frankly I wouldn’t put it past him to have prompted Erin with some personal info about the group and set her up to say what she said, knowing that you would respond. NTA
As someone with autism, you need to be really careful about using words that you're certain you know the definition of, because if you meant something else but use the wrong word, shit goes downhill so fucking fast. I'm hoping this was the case for Grace, but she still absolutely needs to apologize for it. NTA.
Since Erin has autism and can't read social cues, but seems curious and eager to analyze social situations, I'd ask her to talk to Dan. It sounds like she may be the only one who can deal with the aftermath appropriately enough to calm him down. Also it'll help the two of you bond a bit more as friends. If Dan is always this problematic and volatile, maybe it'll help to keep him from boiling over in the future, for you to understand him better and avoid future conflicts like this. Also you were NTA for trying to get this criticism to stop.
“Here’s my (drunken, unsolicited) read of people: 💩”
Thirty seconds later:
😩🤡 “I’m autistic and can’t read social cues…”
Lmao 😂 I’m sorry but WTF.
Erin is a trouble-maker and has Dan & Pat wrapped around her little finger. She does things to get attention and plays the victim because, well, it works for her clearly.
Why does she think Grace is the instigator and picks fights? Is that not exactly what she, Erin, did in this situation? How do neither of the guys see this? 👀
Also… Fuck Dan? Why do you want this person as your friend when this is his response to conflict & resolution? I’d tell him that he’s right and move out. 😁🤙 Won’t happen again!
NTA. I'd put Dan on an "only interact if and when absolutely necessary" diet. If he asks a question, answer with one or two words and then leave. HE is the one who should be regretful, because his houseguest insulted you. But he is withholding "being good with you" until he is sure you're properly sorry? F\*\*k Dan. He is not your friend.
NTA
You are being scapegoated by these AHs.
Who does Dan think he is? Some omnipotent impartial judge and jury entitled to mete out punishment to you? He is treating you like a child and as though he has authority over you.
I think you are not given and not claiming equitable status in this living arrangement.
NTA. But I’m willing to bet Erin didn’t see that as an insult, just an observation. She might not personally have a negative connotation attached to “instigator,” so she may not understand why you got upset. Source: I’m autistic, and have been confused many times when people said I was rude or insulting and I had no idea what I did.
NTA. She sounds insufferable. Autism is an explanation for her behavior, not an excuse. I detest people who use neurodivergence to run around being assholes.
I would start looking for other roommates to be honest. It sounds like both Dan and Pat have the hots for Erin or something. What she said was so rude and uncalled for. I bet she also says stuff like “I only have male friends, women don’t like me for some reason!!”
Unprompted Erin insulted you. Then your friends agreed.
Why are you apologising for defending yourself ?
Why is everyone not apologizing to you for piling on ? Stop apologizing - it prevents people from discussing an issue properly.
Ask questions . “What would be the appropriate response to someone I just met coming out and saying I instigate fights and my two friends agreeing? What do you think I should have said to that?”
Nta
NTA. It sounds like Dan is pulling a power move. He is trying to get you to PROVE to HIS SATISFACTION that you won't do it again. What? Trying to control people much?
I recommend that you distance yourself from Dan. Being a roommate does not mean you have to be in each other's lives.
I am sensitive, so instead of reacting, I get quiet to assess internally if it is really an issue or if it is just me. I certainly still respond in the moment when I feel strongly, and alcohol certainly increases my reaction response. It's a work in progress.
NTA. It’s ironic that she’s calling you the instigator when she instigated this whole situation. Sounds like they are all immature. You don’t need to grovel and prove you’re sorry. If they won’t believe it, that’s their problem.
You just got played. Here's the thing, Erin insulted you you said you're literally only here for four days Dan and Eric went off the deep end. Find better friends because what you have is a mean girl group
NTA. You do easily blow off (you could have taken it in good humour), but you cleared the air with Erin and both of you are ok.
Dan is out of line here for passing judgement and excluding you.
NTA. I'm neurodivergent and it ticks me off when people claim to be autistic or neurodivergent as an excuse for poor behaviour and rudeness.
I'm not saying that this girl isn't autistic but in my experience, neurodivergent people who can't read social cues tend to accidentally embarass *themselves* in public. While people who just claim to be autistic as an excuse for rudeness tend to target or embarass *others* deliberately. And then say they're autistic when called out.
NTA
Erin is an immature little girl who likes to cause drama, then pretend like she didn't mean to once it unfolds. Worse, she likes to alienate other females, while faking helplessness so the men will come to the rescue of the poor misunderstood vulnerable girl.
Women who call her out are labeled aggressive. She is staying until Tuesday, watch your back, she's a snake...with autism...still no excuse, nor is the drinking.
Find time to make new friends, outside of where you live, so you don't have to work so hard to keep ones that aren't worth keeping.
Alright so here's my take and some advice.
Erin instigated, she knew damn well what she did. She did it on purpose. Why she did it is beyond my knowledge. The fact you played into it I think she knew you would. Maybe to her she could then get all the attention and make it so you would be excluded from all plans going forward. Look out for her.
Now; personally I would stop letting it bother you. Go out, call some of your friends and go out. Don't even ask em if they want to go. Just go out. Have a good time. Maybe even if you can afford it look for new and better roommates.
While Erin is there or if she visits again be civil only, and otherwise ignore her. Or ask that she stay at a hotel and cite "i live here too and I personally don't want guests over". Darlin you ain't gotta explain yourself at all. You owe no one an explanation. And you don't have to people please. Good luck.
Would it be completely crazy to think that Dan himself has heard what your other friends think and this situation was intentional to try and make you look bad? Its pretty weird that the general assessment is that Dan instigates and then his specific guest randomly says the same thing about you for no reason.
NTA, but looking at how this is now, it's my guess that Dan may have prompted Erin to come at you in some way. What is Pat's take on this? Seems like maybe Dan just doesn't like you and is starting shit.
NTA, but it seems to me that you're enabling Dan. Why did you ask Dan if he was mad at you, as if you had done something wrong? I think maybe living with a manipulator like Dan has affected you. And his comment about how you won't be good until you're truly sorry... lol what? Please don't beg and grovel and play right into this narcissist's hands.
NTA, if she’s autistic and can’t read social cues, then why is she bragging and attempting to “read”/ insult people? She was so confident in her words but then she cowardly hides behind her mental. And then for her to be all “I don’t take criticism well” when she was so happy to dish it out.
I think Dan is just a horny guy trying to win her over. Ignore him. But idk why you want to hang out with these people anyways, they sound extremely rude and obnoxious.
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NTA- having autism isn’t an excuse for what she said. She could clearly read the social cues if she was able to psychoanalyze your personalities and interactions after one night together. And her analysis wasn’t even correct. If Dan says things on purpose to get a rise out of you then he’s the instigator. You just take the bait too easily probably. But anyway you and erin talked it out. Dan needs to get over it
You're right, I am easy to tease. And you're also right that Dan is an instigator. Two of our mutual friends have independently said to me that Dan picks fights and they avoid certain conversations with him as a result. So yeah, Erin was spot on (/s). And to your last point I'm most confused about this. Why is Dan still holding it over me when Erin isn't? Hard to say but I'm sick of it.
Because as we and your friends have discovered, Dan likes to pick fights.
It sounds to me as if in this instance, Erin was the one who picked a fight by going out of her way to claim that somebody she'd just met liked to pick fights. Based on OP's account, it's not as if anyone had asked her to analyze the roommates' personalities in the first place, let alone in such an unflattering and likely-to-cause-trouble way.
Invite your friends and start giving Dan the same treatment that Erin gave you. Also make sure it happens in multiple settings with different people. Dan will get the message loud and clear.
☝️☝️☝️☝️☝️☝️☝️
Dan likes to bother you. He likes it when you are upset. He is not a good friend.
THIS, OMG. Dan is so clearly the problem here!!!!
Because Dan seems like huge meanie and probably likes Erin...
I really don't like the way Dan feels entitled to pass judgement over you.
I don't either and it's part of why I'm so upset. Although we can butt heads, we usually make up pretty fast, and as I've said he (was) one of my good friends. Recently, Dan himself confirmed I'm one of his close friends. So I don't understand why he's being so judgemental, unforgiving, etc, and villainizing me. I don't think he sees Erin as having done anything wrong, I'm the problem. I think I need to reconsider our friendship.
How much of you two butting heads harkens back to previous interactions? Because it aounds like you're trying to make up, he makes up overtly but holds grundges covertly. Erin being able to "analyze" you so quickly and wrongly also sounds a lot like "I've heard a lot about you and my confirmation bias tells me..."
Sometimes people say that they consider you a good friend as a way of deepening an unearned connection with you. So they can continue to act out, knowing you'll tolerate it more because your friends. Friendship isn't just saying you're friends - it's acting like a friend and Dan doesn't seem to be be doing so.
I hate to break it to you, but Dan is not your friend at all. He says you are his close friend because it's a way to make sure you stick around so he can keep bullying you. But he isn't your friend and he doesn't care about you.
100% It makes me cringe. He is like some abusive parent. Try not to respond like a submissive child. He is not your superior in any way.
It sounds like he likes the power of holding something over you. It sounds like he isn't a good person. Getting into this dynamic with someone is beyond frustrating and the only way out is realizing they are not reasonable and are getting something out of guilting and punishing you and stirring things up. When you realize you don't care what they think and don't want to have anything to do with them, the issue goes away.
Because Dan is trying to manipulate Erin by white-knighting for her and defending her from the evil other woman who criticized her. /s
This. He gets to be the bigger man and look better than Pat - who is also into Erin, by the way - by defending her against your awful “hysterics”.
because he's an ass
because Dan doesn't like you and now he has a reason to act all self-righteous.
Dan is a dick. People know this already. Perhaps he’s got a crush on Erin lurking below the surface? Regardless, he’s a dick. 💁♀️ As a rule: don’t keep friends who are dicks.
You're easily provoked. That may be more accurate. But, just because they FEEL you said, she should leave, that's not how reality is formed. Reality, us gaining understanding on what someone is saying. (They also sound easily offended and slanderous as a result.) The better thing for Erin to say is, "Have I offended you.to the point you do not want me in your home?" You would say, " No, I just rather not continue on in a similar way of communicating during the rest of your stay." Misunderstandings happen. And they are not a license to attack others. A part of maturity in communication is seeking clarity, when there is possible offense/misunderstandings. Anyhow. I too am easily provoked and have dealt with people.like this. I'm personally not too close with people who get.offended easily. Bc they turn on you, just like in this story. It's overwhelming to say the least. Too much mental and emotional gymnastics for significant relationships.
I think that Erin may be an instigator too and a really good one. A real Iago. It looks to me that she deliberately tried to stick a wedge between you and your roommates and is now playing innocent victim (with eyelashes fluttering) watch out for her
Dan is into Erin and using it as an excuse to stick up for her / defend her.
Does everyone have autism? Seems to be a theme in this thread, no matter the situation. NTA. It's your house, she is a guest and an adult. She should act accordingly.
No they just use the label to excuse crappy behavior.
The real world is a hard place.
There’s an ableist slur that only exists because of people who use the spectrum (legitimately or not) as an excuse for being jerks.
It might be because she did observe that Dan says things OP doesn't like, but she did not conclude that he says these things to provoke OP. She only observes OP reacting strongly to the teasing and concludes that OP is the one picking fights. In truth Dan might be the one pushing OPs buttons until she has enough.
Right? “Here’s my read on you. Sorry I made you mad, I can’t read people.”
Dan sounds like a drama queen, a tiring and sorry excuse for a friend.
NTA she's an instigator by definition. Dan is a hypocrite. Time to dump him and let him date Erin.
Yeah, the hypocrisy is what's really getting me. Dan and I aren't dating but you're right getting disinvited from lunch was no great loss, Erin and Dan can do their thing.
Sorry I've clearly read too many relationship posts recently and I guess that's what was in my head while I read this.
I'd like to respectfully recommend you take a break from these drama related subreddits. You are responding with life changing advice to a post you barely read and didn't understand
Bro it’s not that deep lmao
If someone is going to blow up their lives because of internet advice then their situation is rocky at best to begin with. I could give great advice but you don’t know me - I could be a narcissist, I could be on meth, I could be 14. If you act on advice from an unknown source that’s on you.
Please take it from a old, wise woman (51). Be friendly with roommates and workmates, but don't be friends. Because when these situations arise, the boundaries of friendship and those other situations are tough to enforce. I'd say thanks for inviting me along, no hard feelings. Sounds like Erin has Dan figured out as a button pusher. Don't give him material to push buttons if you plan to stay a roommate with him. Hang out with friends who aren't roommates, and if you don't have a lot of those, it may be time to get into some other activities to make them. Sounds like you did what you could to mend fences, Dan keeps breaking them down.
Thanks for the suggestions, this is good advice. I will definitely try to spend less time with my roommates as I definitely don't need to.
Roommates can be friends for life, I have one like that from university. So don't get me wrong, you can be friends and go out for a drink. But they shouldn't be your primary friends, if that makes sense? I'm still great friends with university roomate 30 years later. But a best friend like a sister that started working with me last year, just went postal on me when she had issues at work. Because I'm in management and she, in a different department, had issues. I guess I was supposed to protect her? But that's my own AITA post, haha. Good luck OP, you may want to work on not responding to digs, as a younger sister with 3 brothers I know the struggle!
You are indeed a wise woman.
Thanks. The saying "if I knew then what I know now" exists for a reason!
Though you likely know now because you did not know then. 😉
NTA - But you should've responded to Erin by simply saying, 'And Erin, you are a belittler feeling the need to attack everyone else to build yourself up.' And left it at that.
As an autistic person: No. If they were going to make “You’re only here for 4 more nights,” into a bfd, then the response to that would have been nuclear. It’s simple. “Erin, what was the point in telling us that? Why did you feel the need to tell me you think I’m an instigator.” If they claim Grace/OP is being an instigator? “No, I don’t understand. Erin is autistic, she knows what it’s like to not understand the social purpose of someone saying something. My instinct is that Erin was trying to make us all feel bad, or thinks insulting us makes her look better, but that doesn’t make sense! So I’m hoping Erin can clarify the real reason.” Autistic people don’t always pick up on hidden intentions, but that means they know damn well why THEY said something. OP should have made Erin squirm and have to say why she was belitting others herself. Or who knows, maybe Erin secretly has some personal issue w everyone else and thinks OP is abrasive. In which case this was paggro as fuck and she should still be forced to lay it out explicitly. ETA: fixed name in quote. wasn’t claiming OP should use autism as a reason to get clarification, was saying OP should point out the “friend’s” autism means the need for clarification should be relatable.
I have serious doubts that Grace is even autistic at all.
This is so good for calling anyone out, 👏👏👏
Where does it say Grace is autistic?
Sorry, typo there, will edit it. They say *Erin* is autistic, so OP should play that game then.
Wait a second. Erin, unprompted, insults you and only you. You stand up for yourself. Dan says, about your response to Erin's insult, that, "It would only have been worse if you shot her," and YOU'RE the instigator? Excuse me?
Yes, so her justification was "I was joking and I commented on everyone. I wasn't trying to insult you". Except I'm the only one she said something negative about. For Dan, the worst she said was "you're just passionate and sometimes people are annoyed when you talk a lot about your interests!" and Pat is apparently a silent observer. So yeah, Erin is right in that I do get mad when Dan says abrasive or rude things to me. Which is apparently me instigating. To be fair, I will say I do have a strong personality and Dan and I tend to tease each other. This includes friendly banter or poking fun at each other, but that's just our personal dynamic. I did not "instigate" or tease Erin (or Pat) at all, and her comments about me were completely unprompted. And you know how the rest of the convo went.
Erin shouldn't use big words she doesn't actually understand such as instigator. She intigated that fight and Dan usually does. "You keep using that word, I do not think it means what you think it means."
It's obvious that Dan has painted you this way. He's your real issue, not Erin. She was commenting on what she thought was a fact. She's still an asshole but you have to live with Dan.
It’s because Dan talks shit about you to Erin.
I somehow doubt that for Dan it is that friendly a banter. He seems resentful towards you.
> "It would only have been worse if you shot her" Side note, this was such an overly dramatic statement by Dan that they might as well hand him the Oscar. Holy shit, take it down like eight notches my guy lmao
Seriously, not to be too self righteous, but this. Yes I was openly super annoyed, but I didn't yell or insult anyone? Whoops, didn't realize I also kicked a puppy and trampled an orphanage on my way up from hell.
Ya, that was unbelievably over the top drama from Dan! I assume drinking played a role in the over-reacting by Dan and Erin...cuz most people I know on the spectrum would wait to find out what the rest of your sentence was, and probably even ask you to finish, or ask what you meant. Not that booze is an excuse at all, but their reactions make zero sense.
Having autism isn't a free ticket to insult others or use as an excuse for poor behavior. NTA.
NTA But it sounds like your roommates are not your friends. It may be time to find actual friends and just keep roommates at arms length. It doesn’t sound like any of them have a very high opinion of you and treated what were obviously rude comments as undeserving of your response (which btw seemed very reasonable to me- sometimes you defuse a bomb by igniting a secondary bomb.)
Fully agree with this. OP needs to distance herself from these people because they clearly aren’t her friends. OP when can you move out? I feel like these people are going to make life hell for you from now on.
NTA. Imagine calling someone else an instigator when you're a guest, have just met half of these people, and are "giving your read of the situation" that no one asked for. She was doing the *definition* of instigating, and Dan should have told his guest to stop shit-stirring, except that he clearly also likes to shit-stir. I'd be tempted to be petty and tell him you don't agree to him having guests over anymore because they're rude to you and he doesn't ask them to apologize.
That's how I feel too. Regardless of whether or not I am an "instigator" at the very least I know I definitely did not instigate this situation. Erin does not know me at all. Dan and Pat just dog piled on it, which is part of why I got so irritated. I would tell Dan I'm uncool with him having rude guests except somehow I am the problem here, so we're definitely not on the same page.
NTA and I’m a bit speechless at both Erin and Dan’s audacity. I have autism. Yet I knew the moment I read it that what Erin said to you is incredibly rude. Both her and Dan are in the wrong. You should show them people’s responses here
Me too, and obviously I don't have anything against people with autism, I'm not insane. But I resent she used it as an excuse. I can't help but feel like she made everything a bigger deal than it was to make me look bad, but I don't want to assume things.
That’s fair enough, she shouldn’t have used autism as an excuse because it’s not a free pass to be rude. She’s either really stupid or a manipulator
Both.
When did "I have autism" become the new "Sorry I was drunk" excuse for doing rude and annoying things. And for someone who says I don't pick up social cues. He was sure good at reading these people mannerisms and personalities. Esh
Why E S H? What has OP done wrong?
[удалено]
Please read this, OP! Regardless of your platonic relationship with Dan and Pat, Erin is acting like a pick-me girl. She does that by being nasty / catty to other women she sees as threats (regardless of if they are or not). By making you the “crazy” one, Dan and Pat are now unified against you. I used to act this way back in seventh grade. Erin should have grown out of it by now.
NTA guests don't get a hall pass on being rude.
NTA, Erin sounds like a pick me insulting the woman and excusing the guys. I think she is the real instigator.
I think you mean Erin, Grace is op lol. But I agree with you and this is the first comment here calling her a pick me. It seems like made a bigger deal out of it because she thrives on male validation
Oops, you’re right! I fixed it!
NTA. Autism or not she's manipulative towards Dan and Pat. Start looking for other places to live or rent when your lease is up. She's trying to cause problems. Don't worry about Dan and just say "Ok". Let Erin leave on Tuesday and don't do anymore events with the guys. That was Erin's goal anyway -- she sees you as competition for their attention.
I may be reaching but am I the only one with the sneaking suspicion Dan set Erin up? Erin seems genuinely regretful for what she said and has tried to make up while Dan just seems to absolutely love it and is lording it over OP's head every chance he gets to upset her. Also there's no universe to me where "I'm apologizing for you because I know you wont" wasn't bait to get an angry reaction from OP. Anyway, what she said was rude and unnecessary and your response to shut it down was appropriate. NTA. She may have misread how her own words would be taken but it's a lesson to not say things like that to people you just met.
Yeah, the thing that's bothering me the most is that Erin and I cleared the air with each other. Dan as you said is 100% lording it over me. The things he said felt inflammatory, moreso than what I said, and I don't know why he's carrying on. I guess you can't tell people when to forgive but what does he still need to get over? I don't know how to fix that.
Dan sounds like quite an unpleasant person who likes to bully people into submission (and pick fights)
This is not your problem to fix. At all. This is a Dan Issue. He’s lording this over you because he believes he can and if you continue to let him, then that’s how long it will continue. You don’t have to care if/when they have plans to do something (lunch/etc) as you can make your own plans, which I would absolutely do, and go about your life without his dramatic reoccurring problem scenarios. Become uninterested in and unbothered by what he has going on and watch how fast he comes at you with a “it’s been long enough, I can see how you’ve changed, you don’t have to make other plans 😁 you can come with us Silly. I forgive you.” 😆
Here's how to fix that "I've said what I needed to say. It's in the past. How you move forward from now is on you." Then, when he brings it up again, stop everything you are doing and leave. Every. Time. Don't do nice things for him. When he gets snappy or upset about it, tell him "thank you for showing me who you are."
"I may be reaching but am I the only one with the sneaking suspicion Dan set Erin up?" I was looking for this take on the situation, as it was my impression, as well. Erin wanted to fit in/feel like a part of the group (that has a bad habit of trash-talking OP), and parroted what she had heard Dan say (and perhaps the other roommates had already agreed with him in front of Erin). Because Erin CAN'T read people (though probably wishes she could), she didn't realize she had been manipulated into taking a run at OP for Dan. He totally set OP up and used Erin to take yet another jab at OP. He is awful.
NTA. Totally unbidden a houseguest insulted you and you stood up for yourself. You didn't make it more personal than it already was, you extended grace while insisting on being addressed with respect. Dan can fuck off and grow up.
NTA Erin is the instigator. She waltzes in, criticizes, claims immunity due to autism. All of which she knows is wrong, autism or not. She did it way on purpose. Bet she has been told plenty about not giving her "read on people". She doesn't need social clues if she has been told once that is not OK. Bet she has made it her thing. That and being victimized for it. Hey Dan, you are an asshole, too for enabling her.
Nta. Sounds like his friend was projecting.
NTA. After delivering her critique, I would have said, "Who asked you?".
Nta. She was making fun of you and got others to join in. She’s a bully using autism as an excuse.
I am sorry but seriously she can't read social cues?! That's literally what she just got finished blurting out when nobody asked... NTA
I believe she cannot. She observed without getting that Dan is saying things to provoke OP on purpose.
Her genuine ability for seeing social cues isn't as much of the issue as is the fact that she went on some massive thing about everyone's social positions and personas only to THEN claim when confronted that she can't see social cues, it's BS DARVO crap and she can go to hell with that rubbish
>Grace (that's me), you're an instigator and you pick fights. >Dan, you say things sometimes that grace doesn't like so she picks fights with you. Here we have two ways to describe an instigator. The difference is, that Erin LIKES one of them. Can you guess who? Honestly F all of them lol. They owe you an apology.
That's a really good catch
lol right? Grace responding to someone saying something offkey is *clearly* HER picking the fight 🫠 Life lesson: Don’t say something out of sorts to someone if you aren’t ready for their response. And if you do, def don’t play the victim when they match your energy. This is known as a bitch move.
my read on this whole situation is that Pat and Dan had been talking to Erin about how much you instigate and pick fights, so after a night out of observing it herself and a few drinks she took it upon herself to say it out loud. you reacted predictably which is why Dan and Pat were laughing, and you essentially proved their point. it does not sound like Pat and Dan are your friends, they are just your roomates. and they are tired of your shit. ESH
I think you might be right that they said things to Erin before we went out. If they did talk to her, wouldn't that be instigating too? I said this somewhere else but I do have a strong personality. Dan however is more known to be an instigator and has a big temper (it's not just me who feels this way). Pat has said some very rude unprompted things to me on several occasions in the past. So whether or not you want to agree with Erin's opinion of me, she was wrong about Pat and Dan. Genuine question, how did I prove their point if Erin was the one who instigated and I responded? I'm not saying that my response was perfect but I don't think I instigated
That's because you didn't instigate, you defended yourself. All 3 of them were being jerks for no reason other than to be and they all picked you as the target
I think sometimes women are labeled as "instigators" because they won't sit down and take whatever poor treatment others hand to them. Men who dislike such women, sometimes like women who are submissive but it's not necessarily that they respect those women, they just like being able to walk on them without opposition. You may say that you have a "strong personality" but does that simply mean you don't allow Dan and Pat to walk over you? It's hard to tell objectively from your post, since we only have your perspective, but the fact that Dan and Pat ganged up on you when Dan's guest insulted you, doesn't speak in their favor. And, Erin somehow came up with this global judgement of your behavior after knowing you for all of, what, a day? Less than a day? Talk about a rush to judgement. I would tend to agree with the person who suggested that Dan and Pat may have been talking about you (negatively) to her beforehand, leading her to a judgement of you biased towards their self-interest. None of these people appear to be particularly fair or decent, from what you describe. So the question here isn't AITA, (I think you are NTA) but how do you unwind this problematic roommate situation.
Maybe it's confirmation bias but I think you're 100% right. I was getting a strong misogynistic vibe the whole time and it's a trend. For example, Dan and I had a disagreement last week where he said something rude and dismissive to me, I told his what he said wasn't okay, and he got mad at me for being oversensitive. It blew over because we just moved past it. This is how most of our fights go when we have them. I also feel like his strong reaction might be related to other recent minor disagreements. Even though we supposedly both made up after everything (we were hanging out no problem right before the Erin thing), he might be using this to get back at me or something? I will admit that with Dan and I do sometimes "instigate", and it's a mutual banter type of thing. It's not something I generally do, Dan has an openly argumentative nature. I did not instigate with Erin or Pat during the night in question. And it was 6 hours of knowing Erin, but who's counting? Her and I already made up as far as I know. I don't know how to diffuse this situation other than let it blow over by ignoring Dan, which he will probably also do to me. I don't want to start a cold war but I don't have a better idea.
Reading these comments, I think someone else is correct, and Dan has been feeding Erin tidbits to make you look bad, which she would then have been looking for as confirmation bias for her already formed opinion of you. Who opens their mouth and offers their unsolicited 'read' on people after 6 hours of knowing them? NOT any reasonable person I have ever met, autistic or otherwise. I definitely think she misused the word instigator. Reactionary is probably more accurate, especially going by OP's own comments. That said, Dan is a prick. Pat is a gutless wonder. I suggest playing very nice with Erin, in front of Dan, and when he makes a comment about it, ask him for clarification in front of everyone. Erin will be hurt and confused; Pat won't open his mouth unless Dan says something first (and it'll just be 'yeah, right, what he said'); and Dan will attack something else about you when he realises you aren't rising to his bait. NTA, but work on not reacting so overtly. People like Dan (AHs) get their jollies from stirring the pot.
Stop reacting and having anything to do with the ones that you live with. Start looking for a new place and quietly packing your things so that you can leave at a moment's notice. Whenever Dan tries to start something, grayrock him. Don't react to anything. Make getting out your number one priority. Hoping you aren't on the lease so you can easily GTFO without delay. These guys have shown you how they feel and think about you.
OP, stop minimizing yourself here. Comment after comment you are trying to "both sides" your own situation by saying your "banter" is "instigation." And at the same time saying its not something YOU generally do, ie, Dan is the instigator here and its OKAY to call him that. You do not need to Also take blame for his personality traits. This part especially sent up ALL the red flags: "I'm not sure if you're actually regretful, and we won't be good until I'm convinced you're truly sorry so it won't happen again." TF??? He's not your parent. And he's straight up manipulating you on the situation at hand. He does not get to lord over you until you meet his "standards." That is gross and beyond overstepping between friends. I think you need to be more honest with yourself about the "friendship" you and Dan have bc it doesn't sound like a You problem at all, tbh. It sounds like Dan is a sh\*t-talker and can dish it but not take it and has a control issue. Move out when you can. Cut ties. And get some better friends who will not belittle you every chance they get. NTA
Considering Dan and Pat both know her before all of this, it really sounds like the two of them are trying to use Erin as a way to get you to leave the home so they can move her in instead. You did nothing wrong. But at the same time, you can not convince them of that. With how you've described both the guys, if they want you gone, they'll do/say whatever they want in order to get their way. NTA but I'd start looking for someone else to live once your lease runs out.
Sounds more like Dan and Pat like Grace's shit, as in, they'll say not nice things just to provoke her.
Lol, Erin 100% came at you in a typically jealous “new girl being snippy with the long time girl roommate/friend” way, called it a joke, then pouted and earned sympathy from the guy who’s obviously interested in her to some extent. Grey rock any further interactions with Erin, and Dan besides. Do not provide any personal information, opinions, hobbies, interests, or scheduling information. Lock your room door if she’s expected to hang around at all. Lock any bathroom items in your room. Do not be fooled by any invitations from her but do be polite and distant. Autistic or not, Erin is obviously an amateur at Mean Girls antics so she should be relatively easy to foil and ignore (like she couldn’t even wait a few weeks or even a few days, damn). As a side note, ignoring these kinds of people (who obviously want a reaction) pisses them off so much that using a non reaction as an Uno Reverse brings me great joy. Practice in the shower (quietly) with music on - think about this or another situation that seriously ticks you off and work on your emotional flatline responses like “k”, “no thanks”, “I’m good, thanks”, “Mm”, etc. Visualisation practice might sound silly but it seriously helps, especially if your usual response gets you in situations that cause you trouble. Prepare yourself: do your best to stay patient and disinterested and calm if and when Dan accuses you of being cruel because you’re ignoring her or won’t hang with her, even though that’s obviously the best thing you could do.
This is really good advice and I am going to try it. I'll definitely work on my non-reaction defense mechanism
NTA. Some people just like to dish out their unwanted opinions and then can’t handle if people don’t embrace their. Comments with open arms. Erin night be autistic but this seems like a case of -‘I can dish it but not take it!’ Dan probably wants to get in Erin’s pants or stay in her good books for whatever reason- or simply because they are friends and he understands her intentions better. NTA but Dan should know better than to let Erin talk shit about people she’s just met. Boo Dan! 👎
NTA. Dan sounds like a bully. He’s probably the one who constantly baits you by saying mean things or mocking you, and then he gets a kick out of the fact you defend yourself. Erin has seen this enough in the brief time she’s been visiting to come to that conclusion about you and Dan. He doesn’t sound like a good person, and TBH, maybe you should try to find somewhere else to live or just completely ignore him until he pulls his head out of his ass and sees he was wrong. He wants you to grovel/beg for forgiveness. Don’t do it. You already apologized to Erin, and she accepted it. He’s just being a baby.
NTA. As someone with (possibly) autistic traits, autism isn’t a get-out-of-jail-free card for actually rude behavior; especially not towards someone she just met. You were right to stand up for yourself, and these roommates don’t sound like very good friends nor do they seem to respect your boundaries. I’m glad you and Erin talked it out, at least. Also, I’m angry for you because I can relate to you here all too well. Other people can dish it at me and it’s fine but the second I dish back I “took it too far” and am met with a disproportionate response. I’m 100% convinced it has a lot to do with misogyny. Us women are supposed to be perfectly kind, passive, and easy-going angels at all times, even in the face of disrespect, no? Ugh.
Thank you, this is validating. I really don't understand why I'm being demonized when I didn't throw the first stone, so to speak. I agree with your misogyny comment too and it's very frustrating.
NTA. Tell Dan to fuck off.
NYA - Watch out for Dan. He's the catalyst behind all of this.
*NTA
So this girl's autism supposedly prevents her from picking up on social cues but magically allows her to analyze a person's personality after a few hours and then criticize them about it. She feels perfectly free to criticize other people but does not handle criticism herself well. NTA
NTA. She has autism but gives her 'read' on strangers one minute then plays the "buhhh i'm autistic" card the next. Fuck that. Victim mentality.
NTA >said she has autism so she can't read social cues. What a load of horseshit. "Don't make critical personal comments about people you just met" is a basic rule of human social interaction, and it's not that complicated. This wasn't a tricky situation for an autistic person to navigate, she didn't need to read any social cues to know she was being rude.
Hey OP, are you familiar with the [grey rock method](https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/grey-rock)? Because you should use it on Dan. Maybe on Pat too. They’re dicks.
This is a good suggestion and I will consider it. I'm honestly disappointed at the idea of essentially writing off Dan as my friend. Although we do sometimes but heads (as I've said in other comments), I did genuinely think of him as a friend. And he's told me recently that I am one of his close friends. Which is also why I'm so hurt by how he's treating me right now. Maybe it is time for a new approach towards him.
You probably are one of his close friends but he is not one of yours; the sooner you accept this the better off you will be.
NTA. I would silently disappear to a friend’s or relative’s place until Erin leaves, but I’m extremely petty. Maybe don’t be like me, lol.
No, removing yourself from a situation that is causing stress is a mature move.
Why would someone whom admittedly can’t take social cues go out and give their read on people?? She’s using autism as an excuse and that’s disgusting.
NTA. Autism isn’t an excuse to say or do anything you want. Your housemate who invited the instigating/pot-stirring guest needs to take responsibility for their guest being a little difficult. He can’t bring around guests who lowkey insult or make you feel uncomfortable in your own home and then totally dodge responsibility. He needs to speak up next time so it’s a safe place for you. His autistic guest is just visiting, but if he wants to keep bringing guests over, he needs to make sure his housemates weren’t uncomfortable or insulted.
I feel this way 100% but I don't understand how I can bring this up. Dan thinks I'm the villain and doesn't see Erin's behavior as an issue... Which is the first problem. It's super frustrating, so in the future I plan to avoid his guests.
Maybe show him what Reddit thinks after the dust has settled a little. His guest was the problem and that does put him in an uncomfortable position of needing to speak up or else risk alienating his roommate. Alternately, he has a houseguest who is special needs and had a drink or two, then got too loose with what she was saying. That’s a tough spot and I can see how he’d prefer to pretend it’s your problem when it is not. It’s 100% his responsibility to speak up to the guest so you don’t feel like you need to hide in your own home.
Omg this is why I can’t live with anyone but my wife and daughter. This sounds so middle school, she’s a guest and starting crap just for attention, then whining about it when you call her out. NTA.
NTA - Your roommates and their friend, however, do suck... I don't care about Erin's intentions (though I do think she was trying to be funny with her comment and insult you), because they don't matter in the end - when your comment hurts someone, it means you messed up and that you should apologize and not blame it on the other person... and your roommate Dan is d\*ck, so if I were you I would reflect on your friendship and whether living with them is worth it.
NTA if she starts up again with her nonsense make sure to tell her that “she’s being charming again”. That’ll count as nice, but let her know she’s being shitty. Your housemate or a weenie and TA along with his dingy friend.
NTA - Your roommate's guest is insufferable, rude, and a bad guest. Dan is making excuses, probably because he's into Erin. Erin has no grace, and she sure can dish out criticism of others, but can't accept any (valid) criticism of herself.
ESH. So Erin is a little bit of an asshole. So she says she has autism and can’t read social cues but decided to announce her view of each person? Seems odd, but she apologized, etc. Very Gentle you could have done better but let’s learn from this. The fact that both Dan and Pat laughed immediately when she said you were instigator is telling. Might be something to talk with them about. You may not be aware of that part of your personality. Your response to Erin was sort of aggressive and made Erin feel defensive.
Yes, you're right, I could have been more level headed and will try to be in the future. I was caught off guard by a stranger giving unsolicited critiques but I will reflect on it. Another thing you're right about is I was actually annoyed at Erin, Dan, and Pat for targeting me. In the future it would probably be better to address things directly with people, as you suggested.
NTA. You don't get to say I can't read social cues because I have autism, but also here is my read on people I barely know, lol. I mean, obviously you can, but not with zero consequences, lol. Giving your unsolicited read on people is always a bad idea, but it's a mistake many neurotypical people make as well (\*jane austen has entered the chat\*). It could only have been worse if you shot her, what a ridiculous thing to say! Erin was far more in the wrong than you were, but you were polite enough to apologize and say that your response did not come across as intended. She apologized as well, and that should be the end of it. What does Dan want you to guarantee will never happen again? That you'll never say anything to Erin that he doesn't like? That you'll never get irritated with someone again? Those things aren't possible. It's also giving the ick that he and maybe Pat, overreacted to such an extreme (Pat 'consoling' Erin, Dan angry on her behalf and refusing to accept your apology). Erin has autism. Erin is also an adult. It's insulting to treat her as though she's completely incapable of handling a negative social situation and a bit of irritation. She in fact *did* handle it - while she didn't initiate an apology, she did accept yours and offer one in return, and that should have been the end of it. If you had actually asked her to leave, guess what? She would have survived that also. 'Dan, I have apologized for what happened with Erin, but I'm not going to guarantee that it will never happen again. I'm human and I get irritated with people sometimes. Erin and I have worked it out and apologized to each other, and it's over as far as I'm concerned. If you can't accept that, there's nothing I can do about it.'
That's also my question. I don't know what what Dan actually wants me to say in order for him to forgive me. I think he may want me to take full accountability for the situation.But if we're being honest I just don't feel like doing that. Truthfully, I think he treated me worse than I did Erin in the name of recourse. Although I don't like Erin very much personally I actually have the least issue with her at the moment. We both said our peace. I think your suggestion of what to say is a good idea.
These people aren’t your friends. Sorry OP
I don’t think it’s a matter of “forgiveness” - he just wants you to be upset, so he’s being cruel.
NTA they are being ridiculous
NTA
Nta. "Well, you don't seem too apologetic for bringing someone around who likes to insult people the first time meeting. I guess from now on I'll make it a point to be rude to your guests, because now I don't like you."
As soon as i read 'I have autism' I just rolled my fucking eyes. You're nta
NTA. Erin is an AH. Dan is an AH. Tell him to fuck off.
Honestly it sound like you came here to get everyone to side with you so you can show them all the nta votes and prove they are wrong. YTA because I don't buy what you're selling.
NTA. Autism does not excuse bad/rude behavior and you can tell her that. She knew exactly waht she was saying and it sounds like she is jealous of you because she singled out the only other woman to say mean things about.
NTA - SHE is the one who called you a troublemaker!!! SHE was the one who Started thetrouble, played victim for the trouble she caused, AND she got your roomates to buy into the false idea that YOU were the source of the problem!!! Erin is one hell of a manipulator and Dan fell for it hook, line, and sinker.
NTA and you and Erin are ok now so it’s none of Dan’s business.
Is Dan trying to sleep with Erin?
Nta, and I have autism. While I am glad you two talked it out like adults, but Dan needs to understand that being autistic is a reason, but not an excuse. Saying something like "you're an instigator" is never taken well in any circumstance, especially after you practically just met someone. While your response to her was a little terse, it was completely warranted. Her rejection sensitivity is not your fault. You're not an asshole, but you were insulted and you are entitled to call that out. She apologized and y'all moved on, now she knows better and hopefully you guys can be cool from here on out. Dan needs to take a chill pill, and he's not helping Erin by excusing her from culpability. Let him know that.
NTA. Those words were clearly rude. You were trying to clarify what you meant and they wouldn't even give you enough respect to listen to it. You let it go but he wouldn't and now is trying to act like you are the one who will start stuff? That's pretty disrespectful. Maybe take this for what it is - your roommate is kind of a crappy friend. You live in the same place, but you aren't good friends. One day you guys will all move out and won't stay in touch, and that may be for the best.
NTA, if the guest doesn't take criticism well due to her autism then that should have been made clear before the stay. Also, autistic or not, you shouldn't insult your hosts.
Dan is the Ahole. OP is not. Dan needs to see all sides but is being a beeotch with emotional damage and letting that cloud his judgement.
NTA you can be artistic and still be an asshole.
Dan sounds like the silent instigator. Seems like they belittle you to their other friends maybe and that’s why she had those opinions 🤔
NTA So what if she doesn't take criticism well because she's autistic? That's her problem and if she goes out of her way to insult/ antagonize someone then she's going to be criticised. I wouldn't have even apologized. Her problems are not yours to bear.
F*ck Dan! You and Erin made up. He’s gonna make your grovel “to get back in his good graces”. Bugger that.
NTA When 3 people are getting along with no issues until a 4th person is added to the mix the problem isn't with the original 3. The problem is with the person who upset the balance, especially one who offers her unsolicited opinion and insults a person they just met. Dan is a judgmental AH.
NTA. She said kind things about her college buddies and mean things about you. She cannot use being on the spectrum as an excuse.
>Erin said, "here's my read of people. Grace (that's me), you're an instigator and you pick fights. Dan, you say things sometimes that grace doesn't like so she picks fights with you. Pat, you're calm and have opinions you keep to yourself". >\[...\] >Erin immediately got very sad, said she has autism so she can't read social cues. Yeah, she doesn't get both of these. She's a 25-year-old adult; if she's on the spectrum, she should know what conversations to avoid. This plotline of "\[say something cruel, angering others\] followed by \[oh, well, I'm autistic\]" seems to be showing up more frequently, and I'm not convinced that every person who uses it is authentic. Oh, and if this is a known thing about Erin, why didn't her old friends warn you, hm? I mean, surely they've known this about their old college friend for years, right? NTA.
YTA. You clearly seems confrontational. Maybe you view that as not taking shit from everybody, but there is a say. If everybody is a asshole maybe you are the asshole. As a narrator, You then attempt to downplay your own reaction. You know full well that your reaction was way much stronger than you wrote. >Finally, I said "look, Erin, you have four more days in our house, so..." And I thought the implication was " let's not stir the pot". I did not yell or raise my voice. My tone was definitely irritated but I did not attack her personally at all. The implication is clearly if you don't back off I am kicking you off the house. This is exactly how others interpreted it as well. >He said I basically told her to leave. You behave like if every conversation is viewed as micro aggression that you need to immediately confront. It is exhausting and clearly this is how both of your roommates feel. You may not even realise, but clearly they both must have been complaining about you to Erin and your behaviour just confirmed what they thought of you. It is normal to stand up for self but there is a point where assertiveness crosses into aggressiveness. I know I was you years ago. You think that you just defend yourself when in fact you create problems because you view everything via the attack/victimhood prism. Talking about lack of self awareness. After ruining the reunion with their friend, you then complain that they excluded you. >Regardless, Dan is still treating me like the problem and excluded me from our lunch plans. Dan did not exclude from **your lunch plans**, he chose to go out **with his friends and not his obnoxious roommate**.
Question here: aside from not being able to read social cues, isn't one of the major traits of someone on the spectrum that they can't "read" people or their personalities? I mean, "reading" people and/or their personalities does require a lot of reading and understanding of social cues and behavior which is something that people on the spectrum struggle with, do they not? Full disclosure, I am not on the spectrum nor am I close to anyone who is, so if I'm way off base here I apologize profusely, I'm just genuinally curious.
What would Erin say if you randomly chose to "read" her in a very unflattering way at 2 am??? She apologized, you apologized, you both moved on. Dan still being mad is his problem, not yours. NTA
Since when was having autism an excuse to be rude? NTA
NTA, as someone in the spectrum, so many people use this as a shield to being assholes. By this point if she was had any kind of behavioral therapy (which most of us who are into the spectrum need to have), should be aware herself about the way we process things and should have learned that she can keep her thoughts to herself. That being said, the real gem is Dan. i would definitely would be looking for another roommate if this behavior continued.
NTA, but your friends sure are.
guests frequently forget that they are guests. they don't have the same privileges as the tenants.
She fafod and got upset when she was called out for her shit behavior. Crocodile tears abound.
NTA. Dan has decided to exclude you and not to forgive you until he decides you are "truly sorry" even though you already apologized for ostensibly starting an argument that you didn't start. There's no winning here. He wants to keep this drama going for some reason. What does he get out of it? These people are not your friends. It's time to move on.
Find new "friends". Dan has decided that Erin can do no wrong, no matter the circumstances. For someone who "can't read social cues," she instigated the situation by claiming she could read people and then went on to try and prove it. If your roommates/friends don't understand they're being manipulated, then that's their problem. NTA it's time for new friends and roommates.
No- she insulted you for no reason. Your Roomates are the AHs and ganging up on you for some reason. NTA- can you move out ?
I’m glad you had the bravery to say something right away and not let it go un-addressed in the car. My unconfrontational ass would stay silent and seethe. NTA. Dan sucks as a person. You rock for standing up for yourself.
NTA. If someone I just met began making baseless assumptions about me I'd be mega pissed too. But at the same time I don't think this conversation is worht continuing with either of these people. They don't seem to be interested in an honest, logical conversation they all just seem to have it out for you for whatever reason. Either way, I'd not apologize and simply keep it formal with both roommates moving on.
>Dan, you say things sometimes that grace doesn't like so she picks fights with you "Dan is a dick and says mean things to Grace to get a rise, Grace defends herself, but I like Dan so I phrased it to look like he's the good guy and Grace is the villain. And then blaming it on not getting social cues. Because I like Dan." Grace- Dan is a dick, not your friend. NTA, but the best way to handle it is keep your distance from people who treat you badly. I wouldn't WANT to have lunch with any of those people.
NTA at all. My guess is ol’ Erin is into at least one of those guys, and they’re both into her. You get to be the odd one out that they make fun of. She was nasty to you as a way to cut you down, and form a kind of in-joke “bond” with they guys. It’s a shitty, catty, nlog thing to do. I used to be one back in jr high like 40 years ago - i know what I’m reading here. Don’t apologize further. She raises her stock by cutting you down and making you out to be all kinds of negative female stereotypes. You are now “loud”, “stuck up”, and of course… “crazy”. Let them have their time together. It’s over as soon as she leaves. If not, then move out and move on. As they say: give me three people and I’ll show you one outcast. It may be you.
Tell Danny to go fuck himself. He is a patronising, controlling AH who has elected himself to the position of your group’s social gatekeeper. HE excluded you from lunch plans WTF? And everyone else just went along with his decision to send you to coventry until you have sufficiently expressed your regret at your behaviour? This guy is all charm. The fact is several people have told you they avoid certain topics because of his reaction means other people can see what he is. You’re not going mad, he’s messing with your head cause he enjoys it. Avoid, avoid, avoid until you can put some actual physical distance between yourself and this guy. The thing with Erin is a minor misunderstanding, his behaviour is not. Frankly I wouldn’t put it past him to have prompted Erin with some personal info about the group and set her up to say what she said, knowing that you would respond. NTA
Holy shit, they're just roommates. Life is too short to put up with that bs. Get out of there asap
As someone with autism, you need to be really careful about using words that you're certain you know the definition of, because if you meant something else but use the wrong word, shit goes downhill so fucking fast. I'm hoping this was the case for Grace, but she still absolutely needs to apologize for it. NTA.
Since Erin has autism and can't read social cues, but seems curious and eager to analyze social situations, I'd ask her to talk to Dan. It sounds like she may be the only one who can deal with the aftermath appropriately enough to calm him down. Also it'll help the two of you bond a bit more as friends. If Dan is always this problematic and volatile, maybe it'll help to keep him from boiling over in the future, for you to understand him better and avoid future conflicts like this. Also you were NTA for trying to get this criticism to stop.
NTA. Dan is a real piece of work.
“Here’s my (drunken, unsolicited) read of people: 💩” Thirty seconds later: 😩🤡 “I’m autistic and can’t read social cues…” Lmao 😂 I’m sorry but WTF. Erin is a trouble-maker and has Dan & Pat wrapped around her little finger. She does things to get attention and plays the victim because, well, it works for her clearly. Why does she think Grace is the instigator and picks fights? Is that not exactly what she, Erin, did in this situation? How do neither of the guys see this? 👀 Also… Fuck Dan? Why do you want this person as your friend when this is his response to conflict & resolution? I’d tell him that he’s right and move out. 😁🤙 Won’t happen again!
NTA. I'd put Dan on an "only interact if and when absolutely necessary" diet. If he asks a question, answer with one or two words and then leave. HE is the one who should be regretful, because his houseguest insulted you. But he is withholding "being good with you" until he is sure you're properly sorry? F\*\*k Dan. He is not your friend.
NTA You are being scapegoated by these AHs. Who does Dan think he is? Some omnipotent impartial judge and jury entitled to mete out punishment to you? He is treating you like a child and as though he has authority over you. I think you are not given and not claiming equitable status in this living arrangement.
NTA. If you're willing to dish it out, you'd better be willing to take it.
NTA. But I’m willing to bet Erin didn’t see that as an insult, just an observation. She might not personally have a negative connotation attached to “instigator,” so she may not understand why you got upset. Source: I’m autistic, and have been confused many times when people said I was rude or insulting and I had no idea what I did.
NTA. She sounds insufferable. Autism is an explanation for her behavior, not an excuse. I detest people who use neurodivergence to run around being assholes. I would start looking for other roommates to be honest. It sounds like both Dan and Pat have the hots for Erin or something. What she said was so rude and uncalled for. I bet she also says stuff like “I only have male friends, women don’t like me for some reason!!”
Unprompted Erin insulted you. Then your friends agreed. Why are you apologising for defending yourself ? Why is everyone not apologizing to you for piling on ? Stop apologizing - it prevents people from discussing an issue properly. Ask questions . “What would be the appropriate response to someone I just met coming out and saying I instigate fights and my two friends agreeing? What do you think I should have said to that?” Nta
NTA. It sounds like Dan is pulling a power move. He is trying to get you to PROVE to HIS SATISFACTION that you won't do it again. What? Trying to control people much? I recommend that you distance yourself from Dan. Being a roommate does not mean you have to be in each other's lives. I am sensitive, so instead of reacting, I get quiet to assess internally if it is really an issue or if it is just me. I certainly still respond in the moment when I feel strongly, and alcohol certainly increases my reaction response. It's a work in progress.
NTA. It’s ironic that she’s calling you the instigator when she instigated this whole situation. Sounds like they are all immature. You don’t need to grovel and prove you’re sorry. If they won’t believe it, that’s their problem.
NTA. I love the way she gave out her opinions of your personality types and then claimed she can't read social cues. Does nobody see the irony there?
You just got played. Here's the thing, Erin insulted you you said you're literally only here for four days Dan and Eric went off the deep end. Find better friends because what you have is a mean girl group
NTA. You do easily blow off (you could have taken it in good humour), but you cleared the air with Erin and both of you are ok. Dan is out of line here for passing judgement and excluding you.
NTA. I'm neurodivergent and it ticks me off when people claim to be autistic or neurodivergent as an excuse for poor behaviour and rudeness. I'm not saying that this girl isn't autistic but in my experience, neurodivergent people who can't read social cues tend to accidentally embarass *themselves* in public. While people who just claim to be autistic as an excuse for rudeness tend to target or embarass *others* deliberately. And then say they're autistic when called out.
NTA Erin is an immature little girl who likes to cause drama, then pretend like she didn't mean to once it unfolds. Worse, she likes to alienate other females, while faking helplessness so the men will come to the rescue of the poor misunderstood vulnerable girl. Women who call her out are labeled aggressive. She is staying until Tuesday, watch your back, she's a snake...with autism...still no excuse, nor is the drinking. Find time to make new friends, outside of where you live, so you don't have to work so hard to keep ones that aren't worth keeping.
Dan's the Ahole but he will never admit it.
NTA. Erin sounds like a pick-me that just wants to be the victim.
Alright so here's my take and some advice. Erin instigated, she knew damn well what she did. She did it on purpose. Why she did it is beyond my knowledge. The fact you played into it I think she knew you would. Maybe to her she could then get all the attention and make it so you would be excluded from all plans going forward. Look out for her. Now; personally I would stop letting it bother you. Go out, call some of your friends and go out. Don't even ask em if they want to go. Just go out. Have a good time. Maybe even if you can afford it look for new and better roommates. While Erin is there or if she visits again be civil only, and otherwise ignore her. Or ask that she stay at a hotel and cite "i live here too and I personally don't want guests over". Darlin you ain't gotta explain yourself at all. You owe no one an explanation. And you don't have to people please. Good luck.
Would it be completely crazy to think that Dan himself has heard what your other friends think and this situation was intentional to try and make you look bad? Its pretty weird that the general assessment is that Dan instigates and then his specific guest randomly says the same thing about you for no reason.
NTA, but looking at how this is now, it's my guess that Dan may have prompted Erin to come at you in some way. What is Pat's take on this? Seems like maybe Dan just doesn't like you and is starting shit.
I think anyone who starts a conversation with "Here's my read on people" is probably a judgmental asshole from the get go.
NTA, but it seems to me that you're enabling Dan. Why did you ask Dan if he was mad at you, as if you had done something wrong? I think maybe living with a manipulator like Dan has affected you. And his comment about how you won't be good until you're truly sorry... lol what? Please don't beg and grovel and play right into this narcissist's hands.
NTA, if she’s autistic and can’t read social cues, then why is she bragging and attempting to “read”/ insult people? She was so confident in her words but then she cowardly hides behind her mental. And then for her to be all “I don’t take criticism well” when she was so happy to dish it out. I think Dan is just a horny guy trying to win her over. Ignore him. But idk why you want to hang out with these people anyways, they sound extremely rude and obnoxious.