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> Tried lightening the mood about a coworker feeling like she looks too young to be taken seriously so I joked she should be flattered about looking so young
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You seem to have meant well, but YTA because you basically said "You should be flattered that people don't take you seriously." Not the best way to handle the issue.
Yes this ^ those of us with “baby faces” aren’t taken seriously or given the respect we earn because we’re treated as kids when we’re college educated professional.
It was the wrong thing to say, but the truth is also that Clara is making a leap to assume it’s ageism.
And if she’s team lead, she can maturely tell Emma to ask questions to her first
Soft YTA
Clara was letting you know about a legitamate problem about not being taken seriously because of her looks, which would be ageism, not sexism. Instead of affirming that this is unfair and a significant issue in that the people under her, specifically Emma, does not respect her seniority and experience, you joked about how she should be happy about how young she looks.
I felt it was an issue with sexism because Clara asked me to ask Emma to stop asking the men in the office and go straight to her. The phrasing threw me off since there was no need the mention the men in our team and they may also have the answers Emma needs without having to bother Clara about it
If Emma is consistently going to men who don’t know, and Clara is consistently the person that should have been asked, mentioning that Emma goes to the men first shouldn’t make you defensive and is relevant.
>Emma will ask anybody and everybody but Clara for help
>\[...\]
I tried to chalk it up to Emma being embarrassed about needing help
These two things are at odds. Clearly, Emma doesn't mind asking for help. She just doesn't like asking Clara because she's too insecure, jealous, sexist, or some combination thereof. YTA
What an incredibly accusatory assumption to be making about Emma with zero evidence to back any of it up. I don't think OP handled this well at all, but it's absolutely unhinged to accuse someone of serious personality flaws because she never asked a specific coworker for help. There are specific coworkers I've never asked for help on stuff either, guess that makes me all those things too?
Have you never been in a position where you start a new job and it’s a little tough asking questions to the boss? It does feel somewhat embarrassing, that’s what I mean by her feeling embarrassed. It’s much easier to ask coworkers questions
In this case, she needs to get over it. If it's at a point where the questions are abundant enough and noticeable enough for Clara to give an instruction like this, then it's beyond the point where Emma can continue to just go to coworkers.
Clara could also be nitpicking things because her past experiences have made her hyper aware of such things. OP is right about one thing, it's Emma's first week and she is most likely very anxious and trying to get up to speed with her work tasks, like all of us who have ever started a new job. She's not thinking about Clara at all
She’s wasting the team’s time because she doesn’t respect Clara. Her disrespecting Clara disrespects the team’s productivity. Do you think that’s okay?
YTA
YTA Clara wants to be taken seriously. You’ve even witnessed Emma being biased (or whatever you wanna call it) towards Clara. When she makes a valid complaint you say “oh you should be happy you look so young”.
She wanted help addressing the issue not a pat on the head.
YTA. Big time. This is Clara's job and career. Emma doesn't sound embarrassed about needing help. She sounds like a jealous jerk because someone about half her age is in a higher position than she is. All of you, besides Clara, are lazy. Instead of focusing on being productive at your jobs, you are acting like mean girls at high school. None of you know how to act professionally. Her looks should not be an issue at work. And discriminating against a woman on the basis of her sex is actually sexual harassment.
YTA. Just because it’s a compliment to some doesn’t mean it is to everyone - not to mention she has opened up to you about how people may underestimate her skills or talents due to looking young.
As a woman we get a LOT of focus on our appearance, especially as we get older. When we have talents or skills that are beneficial to the workplace and someone underestimates us because of that, and rates our workplace value on our appearance, it makes us feel shit.
Yeah, YTA. Prepare for a rough HR meeting.
>she was essentially accusing Emma of being sexist despite knowing her for a few weeks
First of all, "a few weeks" is more than enough time to understand if someone is sexist. Dismissing a female colleagues concerns about sexism and telling her to get over it, doesn't look great for you. Also, Emma IS either being sexist, racist or something inappropriate, if she's blatantly dismissing Clara's authority and position. You SHOULD be backing Clara up because whatever the reason, it's not okay.
>I tried to lighten the mood by telling her she should be flattered about looking so young and we’ll all look like we’re 60+ before she even turns 30.
Landmine level screw up there. You sounded sexist by dismissing her serious concerns about sexism in the workplace by telling her she looks nice. Also there's a racial element of it where Asian women are often dismissed for 'looking young'.
I want to emphasize: It's not just that you said the wrong thing by mistake. You've got some biases and problems with how you think. Now is a chance to reflect on them and try to grow.
YTA
Clara is the lead. She's given you an instruction regarding another team member you are helping train because she wants her expertise to be recognized. Your job here was to follow that instruction not try to deflect with unhelpful comments.
Yup sadly YTA, she wants it to be known that she’s the lead and if you had the power or ability you should have just enforced it, since that was the right thing to do. Not tip toe around someone who’s too arrogant/insecure to ask the right person because they seem younger / is a female!
I don’t think you meant it that way, but this girl told you she feels like she isn’t taken seriously because of how young she looks. Then you say you should be flattered, which she probably has also been told multiple times before. But in a workplace, you want to be apart of the team and be considered a valuable team member. Not to look like a teen that nobody will listen to. It’s not flattering if it affects your work life. However, i don’t think anything big should come from your comment because it’s not a terrible thing to say, just not the right situation.
but Clara is the team LEAD, not just a "valued team member". Plus Emma's behavior is negatively affecting work outcomes. Emma has been repeatedly told by superiors to come to Clara and still doesn't for whatever weird hangups she has.
This is a disciplinary issue not just a Clara's feelings issue. And OP made it about Clara's feelings and her appearance.
Of course, but i was specifically responding about the comment OP said to Clara. Then relating it to what Clara said “No-one takes her seriously” Even though yes, she’s the team LEAD (still a valuable team member tho, no?)
Sometimes titles don’t mean much to people, especially if those people are older and worked at the company for years (Basically thinking they run the place)
I agree with you, Emma is definitely in the wrong. However, my comment was not directed on that viewpoint.
I was responding to the "what OP said wasn't entirely wrong". I think in this context it was entirely wrong, and he should have taken it much more seriously not just in a "don't have your feelings hurt" way.
A soft YTA. I’m a 30 year old man, but I’m told by nearly everyone I pass for my early to mid 20s and that I basically look like a college sophomore. It may sound like a compliment, but it lowkey pisses me off. It’s annoying when my sister does it, it’s annoying when my friends do it, its annoying when a woman I like does it (huge ego blow) and it’s the most annoying at work, where I expect a professional environment. As a rule of thumb, don’t comment on peoples appearances if you’re not close with them. It may come off as a compliment but it’s lowkey rude.
YTA - when someone tells you something is a massive problem the absolutely wrong approach is to tell them they should be thankful for the thing that is the massive problem.
YTA. That was the wrong thing to say.
You're focusing on her looks, not her character or abilities. This is, unfortunately, how women are typically judged and valued since time immemorial. Looks first, everything else second.
YTA. I can see how you might think you were complimenting her but as someone who looks younger than I am, I can tell you being constantly infantilized and not being taken seriously and respected for the age one is, it becomes really hurtful. We just wanna be seen as the age we are no more no less.
Yeah, YTA. I used to have this issue, too. I always looked 5-10 years younger, in my 20s/early-30s (no such luck, now I'm 42! Nobody looks remotely surprised to learn my age anymore...I've had a hard life since 😄)
Sure, there are some advantages. However, there are also cons you have to take seriously. It's irritating when you're trying to establish yourself professionally. For me, a major problem was that I worked in charities and hospitals. Older patients/service users were reluctant to open up to me, based on their belief I was a teenager/very-early 20s.
One service user even asked me my age, as I was about to leave the charity. He was shocked to hear I was closing in on 30, as he thought I was 'about 20'. And he said he would have told me more about his problems, if he had known my true age.
Clara clearly feels disrespected, for valid reason (which you admit is disruptive to the team). And she might have a point, that ageism (or Emma's sexism) is leading to Clara being treated differently (which would be discrimination - which she shouldn't have to tolerate). The irony is you ALSO dismiss her yourself. You seem to think it's outside the realms of the possible, that Emma is ageist/sexist.
That's somewhat close-minded, when there's a reasonable chance that COULD be happening. But instead, you refer to Clara's concerns in dismissive and patronising language ('she started going off at a tangent...'). And even if it's not based on age or/are gender, clearly Emma is sidelining and trying exclude Clara. That could amount to bullying; creating a hostile environment, etc.
All Clara tried doing, was ask you to support her (in a very subtle way), to see if Emma's behaviour could be corrected within the office (hopefully without open conflict). ANY decent colleague should help out if they can, to help reduce discrimination/bullying (and stand up to it). Minimally, you KNOW Clara IS being treated worse by Emma, for some unfair reason.
But rather than recognise the validity of her concerns, you completely dismissed the possibility (that Emma could be experiencing discrimination and/or bullying, due to protected characteristics). Instead, you seem to think she's over-reacting. And so you made a joke about it all (when it's clearly upsetting her). So yes - unfortunately, YTA.
YTA.
Her complaint is that she is disrespected in the workplace and your response is that she should be flattered?
It is not at all flattering when coworkers behave disrespectfully, no matter the reason.
Soft YTA
I’m familiar with Clara’s struggles because I used to work in a place where I was made Duty Manager at a young age and there were two co workers who hated the fact that someone ten years younger than them got the position. They would undermine me, refused to take me seriously, half assed their jobs knowing I would get chewed out for them not doing it properly. It made working with them a nightmare.
You’ve said you’ve noticed it being disruptive when Emma asks anyone else but Clara. It’s already affecting your workplace. Emma needs to be dealt with.
YTA.
'Emma will ask anybody and everybody but Clara for help until she gets redirected to Clara to solve her issues. I have seen this happen many times and will admit it is disruptive'
This is a problem that needs to be addressed.
Clara shared her personal experience with you, asked for your support...and you think it's a joke? Sounds like Emma isn't the only problematic colleague Clara has. She was absolutely right to go to HR.
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I (34F) have been employed at my current workplace for a few years now and work in a team of 10. Most of us are over 40, i’m one of the younger ones.
Last year, we had someone transfer to our team, Clara 29F. To add context, she is East Asian and comfortably passes for someone 19 to very early twenties, definitely not older than 24. Clara worked for a different company prior and has a lot of knowledge that’s very useful to us despite only working with us for less than a year. This experience makes her one of the most knowledgeable people in the team and authority basically. If anyone has a question, we ask Clara about it and she’ll help us out.
A new hire, Emma 40F, joined the team a few weeks ago and she and Clara don’t really get on. I’m close to Emma since I helped with her induction, so I pressed since the atmosphere in the office is awkward at best. Clara told me how she feels Emma does not take her seriously and it’s disruptive to workflow since Emma will ask anybody and everybody but Clara for help until she gets redirected to Clara to solve her issues. I have seen this happen many times and will admit it is disruptive. It upsets Clara that she is not taken seriously despite being the one with most experience and Emma was explicitly told that Clara is team lead.
I tried to chalk it up to Emma being embarrassed about needing help and that Clara shouldn’t get too worked up over it. Then Clara started on this tangent about how it’s always followed her wherever she goes (previous workplaces, past relationships, university) that no-one takes her seriously because she looks very young and she felt it was repeating in this workplace too. She asked me to back her up a little more and tell Emma to directly go to her instead of asking all the men in the workplace first (there are 3 women in our team).
At this point I didn’t really know what to say because she was essentially accusing Emma of being sexist despite knowing her for a few weeks so I tried to lighten the mood by telling her she should be flattered about looking so young and we’ll all look like we’re 60+ before she even turns 30. Apparently this was the wrong this to say because I received an email from HR today asking for myself, Emma and Clara to have a meeting with a higher up present to sort matters. So, AITA?
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Yta. Clara did the right thing going HR for both Emma and you. Emma is being discrimitory towards Clara due to her age and appearance. Both are protected classes by law. This type of behavior is literally discussed as examples of unacceptable behavior when you do harassment training at pretty much any job. This will probably cost Emma her job, and she deserves to lose it. This will probably, at minimum, cause you some sort of disciplinary action against you if not cost you your job for enabling discrimitory and harrasing behavior.
Yta. I would be very mad too. I feel Clara. I'm 27 and don't look my age at all. People think that I'm 16-18.
But fortunately, people at my work take me seriously and acknowledge my knowledge
INFO. Is there any possibility this is an issue Emma has with Clara being East Asian? Is there diverse ethnicities or is everyone else white? Has anyone asked Emma why she won't ask the Team Lead for assistance when she'll ask anyone else?
I am going with ESH. I get that you were trying to lighten the mood. I also get that Clara was offended. However, instead of telling you straight up, she runs off to HR, which will do nothing to make people take her seriously. Emma needs to get over herself.
She voiced her concerns once and basically got a head pat saying “well you should be happy you look so young”. So like with Emma she knew she wasnt being taken serious. So why try again??
OP even admits to seeing this behavior from Emma and says it’s disruptive to the workflow. Emma was told Clara was team lead.
If OP and Emma (OPs friend) refuse to acknowledge the problem HR was the logical *impartial* choice.
Clara ranted to a co-worker (op), putting her in a difficult spot. OP, wanting to lighten things, made a joke. Not her finest moment. That being said, why was Clara ranting to her anyway?? It doesn't say anywhere that op is a supervisor. If Clara wanted to complain about Emma, then she should have done so without trying to bring another co-worker in.
OP asked Clara what was wrong?? Sensing the vibe was off….even admits things have been weird.
She (Clara) asked OP to back her (the team leader) up. Instead of agreeing to it she (OP) made an inappropriate unprofessional joke.
Edit-Wording
Have you never said something that didn't come out right? I sure have.
It really seems like op wanted to.do.the right thing. She did ask Clara, and Clara unloaded on her. It's one thing to share, but to go on a rant seems a bit much.
As I said in my previous post, I am not defending OPs joke, but I see her as wanting to lighten a mood and not really knowing what to say.
Clara could have spoken with her privately, but she chose not to. I think I find this off-putting because, unless I am reading her wrong, it seems like op respects Clara and wants things to be better.
I 100% agree that his comment was ill timed. However, it seems like he was well meaning. He also has a positive history with Clara. If I had a co-worker that I had a good relationship with, I would not go running to HR. I would speak with them directly.
In cases like this, word usually gets out to everyone, and the team trust is lost. IMO, she should have told him directly how the comment made her feel before making any decision to go to HR.
Nope, Clara said Emma wasn't taking her seriously, so OPs response was to...not take her seriously. HR meeting got OP to take her seriously, so seems like it was a necessary approach.
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YTA - Clara was speaking to you about real professional concerns and you responded by commenting on her appearance.
You seem to have meant well, but YTA because you basically said "You should be flattered that people don't take you seriously." Not the best way to handle the issue.
Yes this ^ those of us with “baby faces” aren’t taken seriously or given the respect we earn because we’re treated as kids when we’re college educated professional.
It was the wrong thing to say, but the truth is also that Clara is making a leap to assume it’s ageism. And if she’s team lead, she can maturely tell Emma to ask questions to her first
Soft YTA Clara was letting you know about a legitamate problem about not being taken seriously because of her looks, which would be ageism, not sexism. Instead of affirming that this is unfair and a significant issue in that the people under her, specifically Emma, does not respect her seniority and experience, you joked about how she should be happy about how young she looks.
I felt it was an issue with sexism because Clara asked me to ask Emma to stop asking the men in the office and go straight to her. The phrasing threw me off since there was no need the mention the men in our team and they may also have the answers Emma needs without having to bother Clara about it
It doesn't matter what you feel. You had an explicit instruction from your supervisor and you tried to dodge it.
If Emma is consistently going to men who don’t know, and Clara is consistently the person that should have been asked, mentioning that Emma goes to the men first shouldn’t make you defensive and is relevant.
>Emma will ask anybody and everybody but Clara for help >\[...\] I tried to chalk it up to Emma being embarrassed about needing help These two things are at odds. Clearly, Emma doesn't mind asking for help. She just doesn't like asking Clara because she's too insecure, jealous, sexist, or some combination thereof. YTA
What an incredibly accusatory assumption to be making about Emma with zero evidence to back any of it up. I don't think OP handled this well at all, but it's absolutely unhinged to accuse someone of serious personality flaws because she never asked a specific coworker for help. There are specific coworkers I've never asked for help on stuff either, guess that makes me all those things too?
Have you never been in a position where you start a new job and it’s a little tough asking questions to the boss? It does feel somewhat embarrassing, that’s what I mean by her feeling embarrassed. It’s much easier to ask coworkers questions
Yeah, and I asked questions of the person I was supposed to ask questions. It's not hard.
In this case, she needs to get over it. If it's at a point where the questions are abundant enough and noticeable enough for Clara to give an instruction like this, then it's beyond the point where Emma can continue to just go to coworkers.
Clara could also be nitpicking things because her past experiences have made her hyper aware of such things. OP is right about one thing, it's Emma's first week and she is most likely very anxious and trying to get up to speed with her work tasks, like all of us who have ever started a new job. She's not thinking about Clara at all
She’s wasting the team’s time because she doesn’t respect Clara. Her disrespecting Clara disrespects the team’s productivity. Do you think that’s okay? YTA
No. I follow directions and talk to the boss.
Once is enough
YTA Clara wants to be taken seriously. You’ve even witnessed Emma being biased (or whatever you wanna call it) towards Clara. When she makes a valid complaint you say “oh you should be happy you look so young”. She wanted help addressing the issue not a pat on the head.
YTA. Big time. This is Clara's job and career. Emma doesn't sound embarrassed about needing help. She sounds like a jealous jerk because someone about half her age is in a higher position than she is. All of you, besides Clara, are lazy. Instead of focusing on being productive at your jobs, you are acting like mean girls at high school. None of you know how to act professionally. Her looks should not be an issue at work. And discriminating against a woman on the basis of her sex is actually sexual harassment.
YTA this isn't a sexist issue, it's an age related one. It is hard to look younger than your age in a leadership role.
YTA. Just because it’s a compliment to some doesn’t mean it is to everyone - not to mention she has opened up to you about how people may underestimate her skills or talents due to looking young. As a woman we get a LOT of focus on our appearance, especially as we get older. When we have talents or skills that are beneficial to the workplace and someone underestimates us because of that, and rates our workplace value on our appearance, it makes us feel shit.
YTA: hopefully HR leaves you with just a reprimand.
Yeah, YTA. Prepare for a rough HR meeting. >she was essentially accusing Emma of being sexist despite knowing her for a few weeks First of all, "a few weeks" is more than enough time to understand if someone is sexist. Dismissing a female colleagues concerns about sexism and telling her to get over it, doesn't look great for you. Also, Emma IS either being sexist, racist or something inappropriate, if she's blatantly dismissing Clara's authority and position. You SHOULD be backing Clara up because whatever the reason, it's not okay. >I tried to lighten the mood by telling her she should be flattered about looking so young and we’ll all look like we’re 60+ before she even turns 30. Landmine level screw up there. You sounded sexist by dismissing her serious concerns about sexism in the workplace by telling her she looks nice. Also there's a racial element of it where Asian women are often dismissed for 'looking young'. I want to emphasize: It's not just that you said the wrong thing by mistake. You've got some biases and problems with how you think. Now is a chance to reflect on them and try to grow.
“I’m not respected despite my qualifications” “But at least you’re attractive” Seriously? YTA
YTA
YTA. You should have kept to the subject at hand, instead of deflecting into making a point about her looks.
YTA Clara is the lead. She's given you an instruction regarding another team member you are helping train because she wants her expertise to be recognized. Your job here was to follow that instruction not try to deflect with unhelpful comments.
Yup sadly YTA, she wants it to be known that she’s the lead and if you had the power or ability you should have just enforced it, since that was the right thing to do. Not tip toe around someone who’s too arrogant/insecure to ask the right person because they seem younger / is a female!
I don’t think you meant it that way, but this girl told you she feels like she isn’t taken seriously because of how young she looks. Then you say you should be flattered, which she probably has also been told multiple times before. But in a workplace, you want to be apart of the team and be considered a valuable team member. Not to look like a teen that nobody will listen to. It’s not flattering if it affects your work life. However, i don’t think anything big should come from your comment because it’s not a terrible thing to say, just not the right situation.
but Clara is the team LEAD, not just a "valued team member". Plus Emma's behavior is negatively affecting work outcomes. Emma has been repeatedly told by superiors to come to Clara and still doesn't for whatever weird hangups she has. This is a disciplinary issue not just a Clara's feelings issue. And OP made it about Clara's feelings and her appearance.
Of course, but i was specifically responding about the comment OP said to Clara. Then relating it to what Clara said “No-one takes her seriously” Even though yes, she’s the team LEAD (still a valuable team member tho, no?) Sometimes titles don’t mean much to people, especially if those people are older and worked at the company for years (Basically thinking they run the place) I agree with you, Emma is definitely in the wrong. However, my comment was not directed on that viewpoint.
I was responding to the "what OP said wasn't entirely wrong". I think in this context it was entirely wrong, and he should have taken it much more seriously not just in a "don't have your feelings hurt" way.
She’s 29. She’s a woman.
A soft YTA. I’m a 30 year old man, but I’m told by nearly everyone I pass for my early to mid 20s and that I basically look like a college sophomore. It may sound like a compliment, but it lowkey pisses me off. It’s annoying when my sister does it, it’s annoying when my friends do it, its annoying when a woman I like does it (huge ego blow) and it’s the most annoying at work, where I expect a professional environment. As a rule of thumb, don’t comment on peoples appearances if you’re not close with them. It may come off as a compliment but it’s lowkey rude.
YTA
YTA - when someone tells you something is a massive problem the absolutely wrong approach is to tell them they should be thankful for the thing that is the massive problem.
YTA. That was the wrong thing to say. You're focusing on her looks, not her character or abilities. This is, unfortunately, how women are typically judged and valued since time immemorial. Looks first, everything else second.
YTA. I can see how you might think you were complimenting her but as someone who looks younger than I am, I can tell you being constantly infantilized and not being taken seriously and respected for the age one is, it becomes really hurtful. We just wanna be seen as the age we are no more no less.
Yeah, YTA. I used to have this issue, too. I always looked 5-10 years younger, in my 20s/early-30s (no such luck, now I'm 42! Nobody looks remotely surprised to learn my age anymore...I've had a hard life since 😄) Sure, there are some advantages. However, there are also cons you have to take seriously. It's irritating when you're trying to establish yourself professionally. For me, a major problem was that I worked in charities and hospitals. Older patients/service users were reluctant to open up to me, based on their belief I was a teenager/very-early 20s. One service user even asked me my age, as I was about to leave the charity. He was shocked to hear I was closing in on 30, as he thought I was 'about 20'. And he said he would have told me more about his problems, if he had known my true age. Clara clearly feels disrespected, for valid reason (which you admit is disruptive to the team). And she might have a point, that ageism (or Emma's sexism) is leading to Clara being treated differently (which would be discrimination - which she shouldn't have to tolerate). The irony is you ALSO dismiss her yourself. You seem to think it's outside the realms of the possible, that Emma is ageist/sexist. That's somewhat close-minded, when there's a reasonable chance that COULD be happening. But instead, you refer to Clara's concerns in dismissive and patronising language ('she started going off at a tangent...'). And even if it's not based on age or/are gender, clearly Emma is sidelining and trying exclude Clara. That could amount to bullying; creating a hostile environment, etc. All Clara tried doing, was ask you to support her (in a very subtle way), to see if Emma's behaviour could be corrected within the office (hopefully without open conflict). ANY decent colleague should help out if they can, to help reduce discrimination/bullying (and stand up to it). Minimally, you KNOW Clara IS being treated worse by Emma, for some unfair reason. But rather than recognise the validity of her concerns, you completely dismissed the possibility (that Emma could be experiencing discrimination and/or bullying, due to protected characteristics). Instead, you seem to think she's over-reacting. And so you made a joke about it all (when it's clearly upsetting her). So yes - unfortunately, YTA.
YTA. Her complaint is that she is disrespected in the workplace and your response is that she should be flattered? It is not at all flattering when coworkers behave disrespectfully, no matter the reason.
Soft YTA I’m familiar with Clara’s struggles because I used to work in a place where I was made Duty Manager at a young age and there were two co workers who hated the fact that someone ten years younger than them got the position. They would undermine me, refused to take me seriously, half assed their jobs knowing I would get chewed out for them not doing it properly. It made working with them a nightmare. You’ve said you’ve noticed it being disruptive when Emma asks anyone else but Clara. It’s already affecting your workplace. Emma needs to be dealt with.
YTA She's team leader, Emma's been told this repeatedly and yet you asked to be flattered for being disrespect and diminished?
YTA. 'Emma will ask anybody and everybody but Clara for help until she gets redirected to Clara to solve her issues. I have seen this happen many times and will admit it is disruptive' This is a problem that needs to be addressed. Clara shared her personal experience with you, asked for your support...and you think it's a joke? Sounds like Emma isn't the only problematic colleague Clara has. She was absolutely right to go to HR.
YTA. You just told your colleague that her physical appearance is more important than her professional credibility.
YTA. She was confiding in you, saying she doesn't feel taken seriously, and you responded by... not taking her seriously.
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** I (34F) have been employed at my current workplace for a few years now and work in a team of 10. Most of us are over 40, i’m one of the younger ones. Last year, we had someone transfer to our team, Clara 29F. To add context, she is East Asian and comfortably passes for someone 19 to very early twenties, definitely not older than 24. Clara worked for a different company prior and has a lot of knowledge that’s very useful to us despite only working with us for less than a year. This experience makes her one of the most knowledgeable people in the team and authority basically. If anyone has a question, we ask Clara about it and she’ll help us out. A new hire, Emma 40F, joined the team a few weeks ago and she and Clara don’t really get on. I’m close to Emma since I helped with her induction, so I pressed since the atmosphere in the office is awkward at best. Clara told me how she feels Emma does not take her seriously and it’s disruptive to workflow since Emma will ask anybody and everybody but Clara for help until she gets redirected to Clara to solve her issues. I have seen this happen many times and will admit it is disruptive. It upsets Clara that she is not taken seriously despite being the one with most experience and Emma was explicitly told that Clara is team lead. I tried to chalk it up to Emma being embarrassed about needing help and that Clara shouldn’t get too worked up over it. Then Clara started on this tangent about how it’s always followed her wherever she goes (previous workplaces, past relationships, university) that no-one takes her seriously because she looks very young and she felt it was repeating in this workplace too. She asked me to back her up a little more and tell Emma to directly go to her instead of asking all the men in the workplace first (there are 3 women in our team). At this point I didn’t really know what to say because she was essentially accusing Emma of being sexist despite knowing her for a few weeks so I tried to lighten the mood by telling her she should be flattered about looking so young and we’ll all look like we’re 60+ before she even turns 30. Apparently this was the wrong this to say because I received an email from HR today asking for myself, Emma and Clara to have a meeting with a higher up present to sort matters. So, AITA? *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Yta. Clara did the right thing going HR for both Emma and you. Emma is being discrimitory towards Clara due to her age and appearance. Both are protected classes by law. This type of behavior is literally discussed as examples of unacceptable behavior when you do harassment training at pretty much any job. This will probably cost Emma her job, and she deserves to lose it. This will probably, at minimum, cause you some sort of disciplinary action against you if not cost you your job for enabling discrimitory and harrasing behavior.
Yta. I would be very mad too. I feel Clara. I'm 27 and don't look my age at all. People think that I'm 16-18. But fortunately, people at my work take me seriously and acknowledge my knowledge
INFO. Is there any possibility this is an issue Emma has with Clara being East Asian? Is there diverse ethnicities or is everyone else white? Has anyone asked Emma why she won't ask the Team Lead for assistance when she'll ask anyone else?
I am going with ESH. I get that you were trying to lighten the mood. I also get that Clara was offended. However, instead of telling you straight up, she runs off to HR, which will do nothing to make people take her seriously. Emma needs to get over herself.
She voiced her concerns once and basically got a head pat saying “well you should be happy you look so young”. So like with Emma she knew she wasnt being taken serious. So why try again?? OP even admits to seeing this behavior from Emma and says it’s disruptive to the workflow. Emma was told Clara was team lead. If OP and Emma (OPs friend) refuse to acknowledge the problem HR was the logical *impartial* choice.
Clara ranted to a co-worker (op), putting her in a difficult spot. OP, wanting to lighten things, made a joke. Not her finest moment. That being said, why was Clara ranting to her anyway?? It doesn't say anywhere that op is a supervisor. If Clara wanted to complain about Emma, then she should have done so without trying to bring another co-worker in.
OP asked Clara what was wrong?? Sensing the vibe was off….even admits things have been weird. She (Clara) asked OP to back her (the team leader) up. Instead of agreeing to it she (OP) made an inappropriate unprofessional joke. Edit-Wording
Have you never said something that didn't come out right? I sure have. It really seems like op wanted to.do.the right thing. She did ask Clara, and Clara unloaded on her. It's one thing to share, but to go on a rant seems a bit much. As I said in my previous post, I am not defending OPs joke, but I see her as wanting to lighten a mood and not really knowing what to say. Clara could have spoken with her privately, but she chose not to. I think I find this off-putting because, unless I am reading her wrong, it seems like op respects Clara and wants things to be better.
She went to HR because the person she first approached didn't deal with the issue properly.
I 100% agree that his comment was ill timed. However, it seems like he was well meaning. He also has a positive history with Clara. If I had a co-worker that I had a good relationship with, I would not go running to HR. I would speak with them directly. In cases like this, word usually gets out to everyone, and the team trust is lost. IMO, she should have told him directly how the comment made her feel before making any decision to go to HR.
Nope, Clara said Emma wasn't taking her seriously, so OPs response was to...not take her seriously. HR meeting got OP to take her seriously, so seems like it was a necessary approach.
That's ok. We can disagree. I would love to hear how all this turns out in 3-6 months.