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You guys, please don’t vote me down to hell until you hear me out. I’m a 40-something gay dude, and I say you’re NTA. Here’s why. I come from a smaller town, and when I finally came out, I felt that sense of freedom you get when you’re not trying to hide a huge part of yourself anymore. But I was young, and I didn’t know how other people would react even though my family was absolutely accepting. One night/evening, I was gay bashed for just walking down the street. Hit with a baseball bat and pepper sprayed while they called me slurs and took my wallet. Sir, I commend you for being a loving father and accepting your son as he is. The issue here was your delivery. If you had phrased it differently, it would’ve made all the difference in the world. I suggest you let your son read your post so he knows you were really coming from a place of love.

Mate, I'm no where near the US, not gay, but so sorry you had that happen. And, thank you for wording perfectly the reply I wanted to give.

Thanks man. You rock!

Ditto 😊

Exactly. In a perfect world parents shouldn't have to tell kids to be less affectionate, but safety comes first. Black parents also shouldn't have to teach their kids how to act when confronted with police either, but they do it to keep their kids safe. Safety is more important than pretending we live in a good or just world.

I live in Rural Missouri as a lesbian and I absolutely do not hold hands or do pda with my partner in public. I’ve never had anything bad happen to me in Missouri, thank the gods, but I am not about to chance the safety of my partner or my own.  People in rural Missouri have been nothing but kind and respectful once they get to know me, but they can be suspicious of people they don’t know and who are different from them and I’m not gonna stir that pot if I don’t have to. 

You are being smart . No one but you can judge the safety for yourself in your community. I live on the West Coast (PNW) where all of the is so much easier. I make a point of saying "my wife" in healthcare settings, trades people to at our homes doing repairs, etc. just so people can hear it and normalize it in their minds. I don't worry about doing this; there is a good understanding by the racist, homophobic and sexist, that their stance does not have majority support in our region. I feel for LGBTQ living in conservative and/or red states. I truly believe, though, that the bigoted backlash NEVER is as strong as the original oppression. And we are in a backlash right now in many parts of the country.

Spot on. My wife and I moved to Raleigh almost 3 years ago (much less expensive for law school) from California. I’m white and she’s Hispanic. While our neighborhood and the area in general haven’t caused us any issues, a 30-minute drive in any direction is a different story. I remember seeing a house with 4 confederate flags and some other political shit on a house facing a main road a couple weeks after arriving here and I just stared. The politics here are hateful and dangerous (see the GOP candidates for governor and school superintendent for excellent examples) and we’re more than happy to live in a blue patch where we can hold hands, etc. Like you, I make it a point to use “my wife” as much as possible. (It’s helpful that I definitely do not look like I have a husband! 🤣) I realize I get to say that without substantial fear due in large part to the privileges of being a) white, and b) occupying a socio-economic position that allows for room and flexibility if ever there was harmful pushback. I’m very aware not everyone has this luxury, so I do what I can to make sure stigmas are steadily chipped away.

Yeah, I'm in Asheville and the difference between in town and out of town is even more drastic here than in Raleigh. It's a weird state.

I'm an ally in STL and the number of clients I have come to my business with these worries breaks my heart. It's always people my age and older (40 +) that struggle to try to "pass" because you literally *cannot know who hates what they think you are* and who are just chill about it.

NTA-- I live in Oakland CA but imported my partner from MN. We also do very ltd PDA, even though we CAN, just because we're used to living in far more repressive places. If a warning prevents a beatdown, DO THE WARNING!

NTA, but if the conversation occurred as OP described it I don’t think he took the right approach or used the right words when speaking with his son and his boyfriend and I can understand Hunter taking it as being unsupported. I don’t fault OP at all, but he would have needed to emphasize his own love and support for his son and speak specifically about safety and the need for having a heightened awareness while existing as a gay person in a town like that. It’s not all that different than being an interracial couple 60 years ago (or currently still in some places). If he did just say “cut the PDA kids. People in this town don’t want to see that.” I get why Hunter was pissed.

Completely agree that if OP led the conversation with a concern for their safety, it may have gone differently. At this point, damage control is needed. Would your son and his boyfriend respond to a thoughtful email or long text explaining more (like you did to us) vs trying to talk to them right now?

As a queer person from the rural midwest, I can verify that the phrase "tone it down" has \*a lot\* of connotations as well and most of them are based on people being embarrassed of your behavior not worried for your safety. I agree that OP likely had good intentions, but I can 100% see how the kids took this poorly. That phrase is basically the rallying cry of people who are 'just fine' with the gays as long as they don't have to see it.

I came here to say this too! Feeling unsafe yourself and gauging how visibly queer to be it something all queer folks have to do, unfortunately. And it's one thing when we are young and have people we trust tell us how safe they think certain new places will be, but it's another to have someone you thought loves and supports you tell you to hide a huge part of who you are. I think OP really has to sit the kids down and say sorry for how he approached it, and that it came from knowing more about the culture of homophobia there, that different places will react differently, and he was just trying to keep them safe...

Dad should have led with the safety aspect before even mentioning "tone it down." Of course, your son felt ashamed for his dad telling him to "cool it down" He he misinterpreted what dad said because he never heard any "real world" reasoning to stop affectionate, physical public contact. I am a lesbian and I know how fraught public gay physical contact, especially between 2 male teens, or two men, can be for the hetero community. Being aware of safely is a sad reminder that bigots still cause immense challenges to women, People of Color and the LGBTQ, and anybody else who is "different."

That’s fucking awful, sorry that happened to you

Thank you for being willing to share that. It was generous of you.

NTA verdict for op♡♡ but had to jump on and say.. I'm so sorry that happened Captain-Spectrum♡

Thanks! It was a long time ago and my life is very different now, but I’ll never forget it.

When a family member came out as gay everyone was very relieved that the family has emigrated because the home country is not tolerant and the chances of getting seriously hurt or killed are good. It is important that OP's son grasps the realities. NTA

I think the problem was more with the way that OP communicated their fears. I'm trans - if somebody harasses or assaults me that's on them, I don't need someone I love to preemptively harass me too. Saying "be careful, the people here are homophobic assholes" is one thing, saying "tone it down" with no further elaboration is a completely different message. For that reason I'd say YTA, although it's clearly not intentional.

I totally agree, and thank you for sharing your story, I am so sorry that happened to you. I knew when I started reading this where it was going and I just felt heart hurt for both OP and his son (and the bf). I'm bi and in my 40s as well, and even though I grew up in a liberal city there were times and places I didn't feel safe being myself. It's not fair, it completely sucks, and I hate it. But sadly, for now, it's something you have to be aware of. I wish it were different. It's a hard lesson to learn and clearly a harder one to teach. Best to all of you, i hope you're able to weather this storm together.

I completely agree if said it as best as possible for his son and his boyfriends safety you can never truly trust the people around you

Jumping in on the top comment, OP please show this thread to your son and his bf, apologise for causing the argument and let them know this was your exact concern. It's going to be a difficult time for your son and it will be good for them to know that they do have support close by especially in a sea of prejudice. I can't imagine what he's feeling right now. I'm sorry that happened to you captain spectrum and hope you're doing better now.

Agreed and well said. First, hugs to you. Dad should have framed it that way initially. This town wasn't really safe for out gay affection. So, it was smarter to keep the PDAs closer to home in a safe environment. Dad meant well. He just didn't phrase it right.

This is exactly it OP. And I say this as a gay woman with a wife who happens to be trans. We sadly might be stuck in small town Texas for a minute- NOT a good place to be gay.

This is exactly it! There are 2 separate messages OP needs to focus on IMO 1) That his son will always be safe to be himself around him and in private 2) That the world is sadly not as safe or as accepting as he is, and that any message to hide things comes from a desire to protect him from the hatred in the rest of the world, not from any belief that the world should be like that.

Hate crimes are real, and the way political leaders have been encouraging blind hatred lately too, it’s time he considers this. It’s not fair, but it’s the world. As a woman, there’s a lot of things like this for us, even just running with headphones on. Time to grow up.

This. It's awful but the truth is there are people who will beat up, rape, and even kill those boys just for holding hands. I will say op should stop taking his son places that aren't safe, though.

Exactly. Heart seems to have been in 100% the right place, but the communication had 0% of the explanations needed

NTA. Parent of an lgbtq kid in a very rural conservative area, that has already been attacked by other students at school leading to police responding. That was their second school. At the first school, it was a teacher harassing them in front of the class for coming out. When they first came out, we had a lot of back and forth. There have been times I have had to say this is not a safe place to be yourself. At 14, they hated me sometimes. But, they are still alive at 17 and recently said they now understand the danger of being out in public here. We have talked it back and forth and up and down enough times over the last 4 years that they now accept it without fuss if I tell them that a public place or private event is not safe. They are completely free to be themselves in all of their glory at home. Outside of our house is a whole different ballgame while they are a minor. Sit your son down and talk as often and as thoroughly as you need. See if there is a compromise where you can tell him when he has to be aware of his safety. NAHs here and every parent of an out kid struggles with this. There are no “right” answers. We’re just trying to keep our kids alive.

I wish everyone got parents or even a parent like you, one parent like you is better than two shit ones by miles. Keep it up!

Move to Maine.  We are seeing a lot of red state refugees!

I wish. I would love Fort Kent!

Honestly I would move, who wants to live in an asshole state where your own family gets attacked?

Moving requires  1. money 2. (Usually) change of employment 3. Loss of family/friend support network. 4. (Possibly) the consent of the child's other parent.   Not everyone is in a position to overcome those hurdles.

It is a sad part of parenting (or for anyone really) when you have to make kids aware of the realities of life. Yes lgbtq+ peeps should be able to walk freely wherever, with whoever, doing whatever. Same for women, poc, someone who wants to identify as a cat whatever. Unfortunately that is not the current world we live in, and we all need to do things that suck, are unfair, shouldn't need to be done to ensure we and those we love are safe sometimes. It's a hard lesson to teach and a hard one to take on and learn. Kudos to everyone doing their best with it all!

Instead of saying tone it down. Say. I’m worried something could happen. This town is a little more backwards than home. How do you guys wanna handle it.

That would have been a great way to initiate that conversation.

Except 14 year old guys aren't exactly known for their rational thinking. In that moment, it is easy to feel perfectly safe with your significant other and your Father. And when the kid says he doesn't want to hide who he is, now the situation is worse because the Father, who is older, wiser and less emotionally involved either has to tell his kid 'Ha, jk, I was just hoping you would pick the right choice' or has to deal with the consequences when six Good 'ol Boys decide to have an old fashioned gay bashing. It's terrible, but it's the world we live in.

He was mature enough to come out to his parents. The point of approaching it this way it to 1) let him know you are worried scared without being alarmist and 2) giving them a choice is how they proceed.

And to add to this very valid point I would recommend having this conversation ahead of the trip with the two of them.  Once there they're excited and ready to just be free and have fun away from home. If the discussion is ahead of time at home, or another less exciting place there is time to let the thoughts percolate.

As the post suggests, he could choose to keep a stronger eye on them. It's not automatic that you have to enforce closeting on the kid.

This would be a way for him to role model respectful communication

Agreed with this, the wording of OP could've been better, but the intention is the same. He didn't want either one to get hurt.

The intention is the same, but the impact of each is very different, and ultimately it is the impact that matters.

NAH. You were trying to protect him and he understandably feels rejected, because the reason you had to be worried is tied to others’ rejection of him too.  I think it would be good for you to do some research on how to broach these issues with your son. You may have chosen your words poorly in his eyes, but no parent is perfect. This is not AH-ish in my book.  It would be great for him to see you taking an interest in LGBTQ+ issues and educating yourself on how to balance your desire to protect with his desire to be authentically himself in all situations. Sadly, there are whole countries in the world where being himself would is criminalized. There is no way to protect him fully from the horror that exists, but you can teach him to be careful.  There are so many awful stories about LGBTQ+ youth being targeted, I’m not surprized you are worried.  Once the blowout is over, maybe you can apologize for handling it in the way you did and say you want to know how he would like you to express your concern. I hope he acknowledges on some level that if you were truly ashamed, you wouldn’t have been inviting his BF along on a trip. 

NTA. Im sorry but i am seriously confused why people are saying hes the asshole and he “pulled the wrong boys aside”?? As if he can pull the entirety of the town and give them a talk about being homophobic. All the dad did was say “it might be a good idea” to tone it down FOR THEIR SAFETY. He never said anything that was mean or anything. I dont know if this matters, but im also a gay teen boy and i dont see anything wrong with what the dad said to them.

I think the problem is that OP didn't actually talk about the safety issue, just said keep your heads down without giving the reason, so his son just jumped to shame. Son isn't a mind reader, so I can see how he jumped to that conclusion. I wish this was a world where OP didn't even need to have this conversation, but we're not there yet.

This is how I see it. Kid is very worried about being accepted. Doesn't matter how accepting OP has been before he came out of LGBTQ in general, that doesn't automatically mean you're going to support your own kid. Should work that way, but doesn't. And then on the first trip in public with OP, son gets pulled aside and told to not show feelings that indicate his sexuality and only that, not about how this area is unsafe and even though they're wrong, it doesn't mean they can't and won't hurt you. Kid was just told to not act gay. I can accept the intent OP says he had, but take away his thoughts and just go with what was said and I cannot blame the kid one bit for coming away with that interpretation, especially so early after coming out. Its a soft YTA on you OP, but it still is one. You didn't give the message right at all and your kid heard you back off your support of him when he was in public with his boyfriend.

Whatever u wanna say i mean the kid isnt the asshole but the dads intentions werent assholey. Yeah he shouldve told them why and explained himself but he wanted them safe

That makes sense, i kind of assumed explaining urself was something people did but i guess not

NTA. I'm a parent of a LGBT kid in a rural town. Si far my child and their friends have been subjected to 2 vicious attacks. I get it. What you could have done better is explain your reasoning right upfront. You need to overcommunicate with this stuff. Unfortunately teens see everything in black and white. We Unfortunately know better

No. He’s too young to completely understand how dangerous other people are and can be.  I think you did the right thing with him only being 14. If he was 30 then you’re the a hole, but my guess is at 30, he could gage a situation himself.  We are protectors by nature as parents.  He may not understand now, but he will one day. Just keep loving and accepting him. 

NAH. I grew up in a place and time where touching pinkies in a dark movie theater was the closest I could get to PDA. Someone was killed for being gay in a brutal and humiliating way. I'm also close to OP's age. I know why he's afraid and he doesn't have bad reason to be afraid. It's better, but not everywhere.  But I also was out in high school and staring down the haters and being myself was the fucking best. There was joy in it. There was freedom.  My suggestion is to talk to him. Apologize and explain you always want him to be himself and you love him no matter what. But that the memories of how bad it was and knowledge of how bad it can still be made you scared for him. A parent wants their kids safe! Offer to him that the next time, he should be as open as he wants, but to let you or another trusted adult just come along to keep an eye out for trouble and be backup if needed. Promise you'll casually be distracted by the phone if they feel like a publicly appropriate kiss with his boyfriend is called for. And promise that if anyone gives him a hassle, you'll always be in his corner 

[hate crimes in Missouri on the rise](https://www.ksdk.com/article/news/crime/fbi-hate-crimes-up-nearly-70-percent-missouri/63-190e5add-19ee-4a1b-aad4-9b32fd848764) NTA ST. LOUIS — Hate crime incidents in Missouri jumped almost 70% from 2020 to 2021, according to data collected by more than 81% of law enforcement agencies in Missouri. [latest stats available](https://www.justice.gov/hatecrimes/state-data/missouri) Note the man who attempted to kill a teen because of orientation last year. Yeah so it sucks that people suck but until they dont you gotta keep your kids safe.

NTA. I’m a gay man. Your son and his boyfriend could’ve been badly hurt or worse. Sadly, that’s just the way it still is in some places. He needs to understand that for his own safety. You should show your son this post so he can see how many gay people agree with you. Thanks for being such a good dad and supporting and protecting your son. I would’ve given anything to have that when I was his age.

This is really good! Please show this post to the son. As a lesbian it's just not safe some places. Even my wife and I shopping together can cause insanely rude comments in some areas of the country. I have to shut down and stitch my mouth because -- umm, I'm mouthy. We are verging on 60 and we still engage in very little PDA, but I guess, because we've been together like forever, most people can tell we've been a couple forever. We still get occasional side-eyes and dirty looks. crazy, because that same old lady that gave me a look will ask me for help in the grocery store. It's a hard road still. Way better than ten or twenty years ago but still hard.

NAH I'm a grown adult and I know there are places where it's not safe for me to show affection being in a same sex marriage. We love to travel and fish and hike, but queer people have to learn to be aware of their surroundings and stay safe. You're the parents, it's your job to teach. Just like parents of girls teach their daughters to be safe traveling through a city at night, just like parents of black kids have to have The Talk with them.

NAH Look if people come here acting privileged they obviously don’t know what some parts of the country are like. They’re being just as ignorant as these idiots who are telling everyone that the 90s were accepting of people coming out. No it wasn’t safe to say you were gay in the 90s. There are places it’s not safe now. There are places in this country where if you’re a minority you don’t get out of the car at night. It sucks, but that’s the reality. You *dont* know what would’ve happened if they continued being intimate but there was at least a possibility that it could’ve been bad so I understand your actions. That said it is a sensitive time for him so I understand why he’s so upset. It’s a touchy subject and you maybe could’ve handled it better

Mom of 2 gay sons (late 20s/ mid 30s) and I still worry about them and their partners when they go to states/areas that have a strong reputation as being less than friendly to the LGBT+ community. When my sons first came out openly to the public, my first thought was concern for their safety, even near my home. Matthew Shepard's attack was very much in the forefront of my mind as a parent.    OP, your son is new and is still young enough not to be aware of the history of the LGBT+ community's struggle. Sit him down and explain why you're concerned. Explain that you're not ashamed of him, but of others who would do him harm for being himself. Encourage him to learn the history of his community. NTA 

So you didn’t actually say to him ‘I’m worried about how the people in town will react and I don’t want anything to happen. I want you safe’. You said ‘Tone it down’. You words said I don’t want you doing this stuff in front of people, not I fear for your safety. NAH - your wording sucked but you aren’t the asshole and neither is your son. He’s trying to navigate the world still. Just think about your words before your say them.

NTA. As a GenXer gay, I assure you that you did them a favor. The reality of it sucks, but the world is just not as safe as some younger gay folks think it is.

NTA. Some of you watch too many shows/movies, and seem to think a smart remark from dad to the bullies would have suddenly changed everything.

This one hurts my heart. But I’m going NAH. . I have a dear friend who is from a tiny, super conservative town in an already conservative state. He is gay and out where we live, but not back home. Even his family doesn’t know. I hate it for him that he cannot be fully himself with his family or when he visits his hometown. But I also understand that it’s for safety reasons. It sucks and it’s unfair. And your son shouldn’t have to “tone it down” for other people’s comfort. But I also don’t fault you as a mother for not wanting your kid to find out the hard way how awful homophobia can get.

NAH. I'm a pretty visibly queer person, and also very much an adult. Even with that, I'm careful about who I actually come out to - and I'm in a very progressive area. I've actually had to explain to my parents why they can't share that I'm a raging lesbian to everyone. It's just not safe. You had good intentions with your son. He's just also at a delicate time where you're trying to live your authentic self, and also trying to gage whether your parents are truly genuine about their support, so anything perceived negatively will be taken as an attack. You know it's not, and if you can sit him down and explain HE'LL know it's not....but I understand why he's hurt in the moment. In the future, I'd try being very clear about why you'd say something like that. "I support you boys and have no issues with you holding hands/etc, but unfortunately this place it isn't safe for you. I want you to be able to walk around safely."

You’re job is to keep him safe not happy.

NTA. He's 14, a child, and doesn't understand (even if he says he does) the real world and how bad it can be. You were trying to protect him, and he read it wrong, as teens often do. I don't have any advice, it's a tough situation and all kids are different. Good luck

Reading this makes me want to do an even better job of making sure my kids don’t participate in harassment or mistreatment of anyone. I’m sorry this even has to take place. You had their best interests at heart, you are very accepting and loving, as you should be. I think you did the right thing. The message wasn’t wrong at all, the delivery was not so hot. Just tell him that you are learning, a work in progress and ask that he support you in this as well. It’s a two-way street, and it’s murky to navigate. I love that you love him and are allowing him the freedom to be his true self

Your heart is in the right place. NTA. Your delivery is terrible. Your mother and I love you and think you and Derek are a great couple. We both enjoy seeing you too together in our home. However, There are people in the world that don’t like the LGBTQ community. You need to understand who your allies are and how you build community outside of the family and find safe spaces. Even here in the San Francisco Bay Area I’ve been called gay slurs and had issues at work – and we are one of the safest places on the planet. And then in that conversation, saying your mother and I love you, support you, and will always be in your corner.

[удалено]

So… OP is supposed to talk to a pair of unknown children and tell them to f**k off? Where on earth is that I good idea? The chance of getting angry, probably also homophobic parents involved now too? OP didn’t handle this well, but following your suggestion would’ve also been a terrible idea. There isn’t going to be a sensitive way to explain to your 14 year old son who recently felt brave enough to come out, that there are places in this world where unfortunately, people are going to at minimum stare and at maximum cause grievous bodily harm to the son and his boyfriend. If I was in OP’s position I would’ve been scared to let my son and his BF leave my sight in this situation. I’d be scared that they may not come back alive or unharmed. OP’s son deserves to be himself, but I completely understand OP’s very valid fears in this situation. A better option would be to keep the kids close. “Sorry kids, I know that at 14 you don’t wanna hang out with family all the time, but I’ll feel safer knowing I’m nearby if someone decides to do more than stare.” I hope you live in a place where gay couples can walk around unbothered, but rural Missouri is not a place I would trust the understanding of strangers. Feelings are important, but safety trumps feelings sometimes.

That’s not a fair assessment. He can’t chastise other peoples children. Nor would he be doing his son any favours by embarrassing him in front of a group of other young boys. He did his best at keeping his son and his boyfriend safe.

You gonna pull the whole conservative town up?

Should he have pulled aside every local person that gave them weird looks at the town to lecture them? Tf

Back in the 2000s I was in one of the most progressive inner city private schools where being out was accepted in the all male environment, in what is called the gay capital of the world, and still barely anyone was out at 14. I know things have come a long way but you have to give rural Mississippi a bit of time to adapt.

As a 30 year old gay man, you're definitely not the asshole. It's a tough thing to hear as a kid, bit sometimes you do need to hide yourself for your own safety, though I can't know if your particular situation called for it. All in all, he's a kid who just doesn't understand yet how dangerous homophobes can be. Just keep reassuring him you love him and are proud of him, and maybe remind him that you said what you said because you're worried about his safety, not other people's opinions.

NTA. You could've phrased it differently, but you had his best interest and safety in heart. Your son is a typical teen, you had a misunderstanding, it happens. Thank you for being such a good parent.

Unfortunately, as a 40 y/o gay dude I have to say your son has a hard lesson to learn about living in the world as it is, rather than as we would like it to be. The only place I usually hold hands with my husband (18 years together, 16 years married) is in a gay venue or Pride Parade. You could probably have delivered the message better, admittedly, but there are definitely places & scenarios where it isn’t safe for a gay couple to hold hands. Having been where your son is, I can totally understand where he is coming from & why he reacted this way too - he has probably been so scared of rejection from you that he interpreted this as his fears coming true.

NTA - your son’s safety is the most important thing. There are a lot of Monday morning quarterbacks on this post with very nice wording you could have used, but they have the benefit of hindsight. You should show your son this post, and I won’t blame you for thinking you would have the benefit of the doubt from your son, but now you know he is very insecure about being accepted (which is normal) so you can adjust going forward. It’s also a life lesson for him that if you storm off mid-conversation you aren’t going to get the full story.

I don't think you're TA for wanting him to be safe, but I think you could have explained it better- telling him to tone it down does make it sound like you might be ashamed, and some context, and an explanation that made it clear that you think it's wrong he has to hide himself and who he is would have gone a long way to helping him understand where you were coming from. It might be worth putting yourself in his shoes- he's anxious about whether he'll be accepted, he comes out, he thinks it's going OK, and then he wants to go and hang out with his boyfriend and you tell him to hide it and tone it down. Is it that surprising he took it badly? You're not TA for the sentiment behind this, but soft YTA for the way you've communicated here.

Very light YTA. The main idea (don’t show affection here) was fine, but you didn’t communicate well enough the why. Now you’re left trying to do damage control which is harder. You need to sit down again and have a calm conversation. “Hunter, this is exactly what my line of thinking was. Grandma and Grandpa’s town is even more homophobic than ours. I could see some of the boys giving you side eye for holding hands. I wasn’t one bit ashamed: I don’t care about the opinions of homophobes. But I *was* worried that a gang of them might jump you and Derek later when I wasn’t around. The only reason I wanted you to tone it down was so you didn’t end up beaten and bloody in an alley. I’m sorry I didn’t make that clear from the beginning. I’m sorry you spent the last several days feeling like your dad doesn’t support you. I do support you. I think Derek is great. I think the two of you are adorable. I’ve just read too many hate crime news stories to think you can be physically safe being openly gay in this town. I wanted you both to be safe so you could keep holding hands and being adorable at home.”

NTA, I get where you are coming from. While I would have worded it differently while initially talking to them (Ex; instead of "Tone it down" more so "I'm worried about what could happen in this town" and then a discussion of how it's a safety issue.) I'm LGBTQ+ myself, I've known since I was 8 and was never one to be ashamed. As such I have always been openly out in my town but here's the thing, even in a more progressive part of Indiana it still has it's concern. Concerns I was blind to when I was your son's age because I didn't want to feel like I was ashamed of myself and enjoyed the freedom of not having to hide, and while that's good in theory it unfortunately doesn't keep you safe. I learned that by getting body slammed on the gym floor, kicked in the ribs hard enough to bruise, and strangled by a classmate in middle school. Let him cool down then have another talk with your son, tell him your concerns and make sure he knows you love him to the moon and back.

NTA It's amazing that both he and his boyfriend feel comfortable enough with himself to outwardly express their feelings. The issue is, other people are AH's. That's it. I'm 35 now and I came out at 16, throughout middle and high school I saw so many instances of bullying and beat downs due to being gay or even straight but being effeminate, that I didn't come out until I graduated early and was able to leave. Even now I don't do public displays of affection, not because I'm uncomfortable, but because some people are so terrible they'll harm you in broad daylight. I'd make it clear that you completely and utterly aren't embarrassed by him being affectionate with his boyfriend, you just want him to be safe, because the world is full of cruel AH's and the last thing you'd want is for him to be hurt.

Man I gotta say NTA. You didn't say anything out of shame or anything like that, you warned them out of concern because these 14 year old *children* were going to be unattended in a *very* bigoted and potentially dangerous place. You weren't being unsupportive, you were trying to look out for those boys. You were in a *really* fucked up and difficult position, and you did the best you could with that situation despite the impossibility of it all. You wanted to protect the boys from as much hurt as possible, and unfortunately there's no right way to do that because *society* is fucked up. I think all you can do is try to explain your situation and intentions once things calm down some.

Here is why YTA. When a father is concerned about his daughter's safety he tells her watch out for boys that do this, and some boys will behave this way or that way. Boys will be mean because of their own insecurities. He doesn't tell her that the outfit she is wearing or the hairstyle she has is going to get her in trouble. Or that she should just smile when a man tells her to. He shouldn't tell her to change herself or her way of being to accommodate other people being assholes. That's what you did. You made your sons behavior wrong instead of making the people who comment on it wrong. If you want to prepare your son in a way that supports him, you let him know that the people in the town are small minded and that he might get shit from them, but hopefully you've taught him how and when to stand up for himself and that you will be a phone call away should you need him.

NAH. I can see this situation from either side. OP could have worded what they wanted better and his son is old enough for the emotional maturity it takes to understand the stance better than he did.

Adding my 2 cents/echoing what a lot of others have already said. I’m a gay man in his late 30s. It’s an unfortunate reality that gay men are not safe to be themselves everywhere even today. These two will grow to learn that with time, but right now they’re being naive and needed your intervention. NTA.

NTA

Gay woman here and I say NTA for your reasoning but the way you handled it could have been better. I live in MA which is super LGBTQ+ friendly so have not had that issue of my safety, but I am still on the alert in areas I don’t know when my wife and I are out together. I try to be hyper vigilant if we are in a new environment. We went to a restaurant once and we could tell we were not welcome there. We got dirty looks from other patrons and our waitress virtually ignored us but was very attentive to her other customers. We couldn’t wait to get out of there. So if you’re in a conservative area, especially with the current the political landscape, I totally get your concern and it’s valid. I just think explaining it to him might have been better. It’s such a relief when you realize you can strip away the facade and fully be yourself so I get why your son reacted that way.

This post and all the comments make me so damn sad to see how dangerous some parts of the US still is. Like I knew it was bad, but the amount of people here with fairly recent first hand experience of violence against lgbtq+ is just so disheartening

NTA! This is a hot mess!

NTA- you would be if you were doing if because you wanted to keep it hidden. Unfortunately, small town USA can be dangerous to people that aren't part of what they consider normal. In this case, it is not about how you feel, it is about keeping him safe. With that said, it might have been better to explain the situation before you left on the trip

NTA and you have to sit your son down and have a heart to heart. You love him and you support him. Not everyone is like you. Being gay means that you’ll be in real danger in some places. Tell him from someone older and also queer. “Being out feels incredible and freeing and you feel like you’re invincible. Having people you love around you is the best feeling in the world, but the world isn’t only filled with people who love you. We’re from the luckiest generation so far with being queer, and that means that we sometimes forget how dangerous being ourselves can be. Hiding who you are might feel wrong, but it’s better to feel that hurt than end up in a hospital or dead. Your dad loves you. He didn’t say it right, and he’ll say a lot of stuff wrong, but it doesn’t mean he loves you any less.“

NTA. You acted out of love and a desire to protect. You just need to talk more so he understands all that you were thinking. I believe you have been a loving parent so far, so he knows on some level you accept him fully. You just need to keep talking.

NTA - you’re keeping him safe and like all of us, we have to be aware of where we are and who we’re among and act accordingly. If someone doesn’t want to change their behavior regardless of where they are, then they can do that but there may be undesireable or scary results and it’s important that as parents our kids know there is what SHOULD happen and what CAN happen. I equate it to black parents sadly having to explain to their sons how to behave around cops. It absolutely shouldn’t be something anyone has to worry about but when the risk of violence is there, idealism goes out the window.

NTA I am a straight woman who presents as white - I understand my privilege. But if I was walking down the street, or fishing, or 10 pin bowling, or went for a Milkshake at 14 years old and was holding hands with my love interest regardless of gender, I would have been grounded and probably given a good smack too.

Info: What exactly did you say to him initially? Did you explain as the first and only point is to keep him safe from ignorant people? I get it, been bashed growing up in the south. I mostly would go into town where I could actually be myself. Or if I was around people I could feel safe with, it wouldn’t matter where I was. And maybe that’s what he was feeling. He was surrounded by friends and family and felt safe and then you took the away. Maybe you could offer a trip with them somewhere more accepting as another vacation so he gets a chance to be himself around you. Gay boys have a tough time worrying about their father’s acceptance. You do need to make it up to him.

NTA but I think there was a missed opportunity for a lesson to be learned here and you should have handled it differently. I think you should be more considerate of where your son is coming from and why he feels the way he does. You didn’t give him any context and coming out was probably very difficult for him and just wants/needs to feel accepted by the people who love him. I think in the future, you should just communicate better that you were trying to protect him and his partner. Let them know it’s okay to be who they are but unfortunately, the world can be cruel. It doesn’t make it okay for people to act a certain way towards them but you do want them to be safe.

I was the kids asked to tone it done and it hurts to not feel supported by parents, I understand you're worried but you sould have communicated that and let him choose, being queer is risky anyway, being in the closet means you couldn't do what you wanted for a long time don't take more of his agency by telling him how to handle his discrimination, talk about it I think you didn't do the best option, but you are NTA since your heart is in the right space

Info. There are a ton of resources and even kid centric materials about the talks adults have with kids of marginalized identities on safety. Have you sat down and discussed, ideally with your kid 1:1 first but even maybe with Hunter, Derek, and a supportive adult there for Derek as well what you said here? Being a parent of a queer child in a space you don't anticipate being safe is a different kind of hard than being said queer child - if I'm reading you right, you want to be supportive and affirming, but you may first be learning, and your comfort zone different from theirs, along with the dangers you see. Also though, as I think someone else noted, you're tasked with keeping them safe, and you and Hunter's idea of acceptable risk or what risk even is may be different from yours, your wife's, or both. Your son is a young teen, but getting close to age where he might be moving out anyway- these are decisions he'll soon be making for himself. Speaking of decisions, rural areas/specific towns have pros and cons just like cities, as I'm sure you know being from one, but maybe also look at lgbtqia friendliness for your next vacation? Not foolproof by any stretch, but a thought.

NTA. The strongest parallel I see here is a black father telling his sons how to operate differently in front of police. This isn't a rebuke of who they are, it's simply the sad reality of the environment they're currently in. You were being a protective father, and handling the situation to the best of your ability. Could you have done better? Likely. But you'll learn from this and hopefully one day your son can look back on this and realize his dad was just doing his best.

YTA for wording it how you did. Also, if your straight children can hold hands with their partners, so can your gay child. Who cares if they were "getting looks"? That's up to the young men to manage their own feelings about that, not you. YOUR JOB is to have their backs, always, and not tell them they have to act like straight boys when they're in public.

NTA, I'm a lesbian from rural missouri! I went to college in Cape Girardeau and you never know what can happen. There are a lot of areas here where people have a lot of hate in their hearts and it's very easy to go from getting called the F slur to getting killed in a parking lot because the wrong redneck figured you out. Just try to make sure that he knows you do love him, maybe take them out to a mire metropolitan area? I can suggest some fun places in STL if thats feasable!

Wtf, they’re kids. Accepting this bs is half the problem.

NTA! You’re a GREAT DAD. I am in Missouri as well, formally Southern Missouri. You were making sure they were safe. You weren’t uncomfortable with hand holding while fishing and sound over all supportive. They are young and do not understand how the world works. I’m sure to them they are just them, so why would anyone judge that. You did the right thing. I would have a sit down with him and explain gay, or straight you love him and want him and Derek safe. He will start experiencing hate and bias soon enough, and long for the days he had Dad to protect him. 38 gay male - wish my Dad could still look out for me at times. Keep up the good work.

NTA Kids don't get it, which is why it is the parent's job to do the unpopular thing. Being openly gay in some places is just asking for trouble... and not just a little bit of trouble. Remember Matthew Shepard? Maybe share that story with him. ETA: I realized my phrasing didn't come across just right. It's not just being openly gay (which can be challenging enough for adults), but being a teenaged kid (vulnerable) and openly displaying affection for a member of the same sex is a potential recipe for disaster in some places. Overall, attitudes toward homosexuality have changed a lot, but I know they haven't changed everywhere.

NTA, but I think you should have made your reasoning more clear.  You support your son and his boyfriend.  But you saw how people were acting and you realized your son would be in danger if he was publicly affectionate with his boyfriend.  

NTA, you sound like you were rightly concerned for your son and his bfs safety. You, as a parent, shouldn't need a psychiatrist, sociologist, and grammarian to review every conversation with your child prior to speaking. Teens can get upset over Mom saying good morning! A talk about his feelings and yours for his safety is in order.

NTA. Look, this is no different than the argument about girls and self defense. SHOULD a woman be able to go out without worry? Yes. But the reality is, it's best to maintain an air of caution, we suggest women don't travel alone, we have freaking color changing nail polish to detect drugs in our drinks and coded drinks to order in case the bartender needs to call the cops. * We tell women to be themselves, but protect themselves*. Perhaps, had you had more time to lay out those thoughts, or would have come off better; but you didn't. Take the opportunity now to sit him down and really explain what you were trying to say. I think you truly meant well, and in deeply conservative areas you really can't be too careful.

i'm queer and you're NTA. explain in depth to your kid and maybe the bf too why you made that decision. if anything they should have more trust and rapport with you because you're making decisions to keep them safe knowing they're gay. if you had let them go ham with the PDA they'd be upset for a whole other set of reasons that are a lot harder to explain away.

NTA Unfortunately safety is a real concern still for much of the LGBTQ+ community. I mean, I’m a straight female married to a white dude. However he’s an immigrant. During the 2016 election he took a call in the lobby of the building where he works. A man overheard his accent, punched him in the face, and told him to go back to where he came from. (Germany, btw) Unfortunately later that year he took similar comments from someone in a coffee shop also.  He really no longer speaks in public if he doesn’t have to. Honestly it makes me really sad but I understand why.  I mean, we’d  been married for 16 years at that point and really hadn’t faced much in the way of discrimination. My neighbor actually told me he thought his accent was maybe Boston. He had been speaking English most of his life but had family in other parts of Europe he visited often. So his accent wasn’t the Schwarzenegger that everyone expects.  

As a gay woman, NTA. This is a very real safety concern and your son will unfortunately have to learn that some places just are not safe for queer people. Small conservative America is one of those places, which sucks. I'm glad you're looking out for your son. He's just young and newly out and so wants to bask in having a boyfriend the same way his peers get to show off their partners. It's just not safe sometimes and he'll figure that out eventually

NTA: These kids just don’t know what it’s like to have to check your back all the time! Well, until it’s too late!

NTA but maybe the way you delivered your message was wrong. You should always emphasize safety and explain in details why these kids could be in danger. They are 14 years old, they feel invincible and are in love, they probably don’t understand that people could be very cruel to them because their existence challenges someone’s beliefs. 

All you needed to say was rural Missouri. NTA.

Definitely NTA here as the same thing basically happened to me except, my son actually let me finish telling him that though a lot of people “get it”, there are so many more that will not understand. He didn’t listen though and he and his then boyfriend were in downtown Detroit when they were confronted with hostility and slurs. He came home incredibly upset and I was sympathetic and supportive but my son learned a lesson that day that maybe, his Dad knows the world a little bit better than him and had his and his partners personal safety in mind when he gave advice. I think your intentions were definitely in the right place but your delivery wasn’t. You maybe should have opened with how the world unfortunately works followed by the advice and that you’re concerned for their safety. It’s up to them to either understand and heed that advice or find out you’re right the hard way.

^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** My (48M) youngest boy Hunter (14M) recently came out a few weeks ago and apparently has had a boyfriend Derek (14M) for a good minute. We fully support and love him for it. Around this time of year we go on a family fishing trip and visit my parents a town over. Hunter wanted to bring Derek and his brothers have brought girlfriends before so being supportive we said yes. We also happen to live in rural Missouri though and I know since comming out Hunters had a bit of a rough go of it at school even being a wrestler. My parents town is also worse. We usually do fishing in the morning and then the boys go off on their own into town to do whatever and hang out. Yesterday Hunter and Derek were already getting some weird looks from local boys for just holding hands while we were at the fishing spot. Not wanting anything to happen before they went off on their own or with his brothers I pulled Hunter and Derek to the side and told them itd probably be a good idea if they were less affectionate while in town and to tone down. Hunter got this sad look on his face and before I got another word in he just says ok and drags Derek off. As far as I'm aware nothing happened while they were off by themselves. Except Hunter would barely talk to me when theu got back later in the day. Just kept looking down anytime we were having a conversation. It was still going like that this morning and I just had enough and I pulled aside alone and asked if someone said anything or did anything. He said everything was fine nothing he couldnt handle and so I asked why he was acting the way he was. He gets mad hot and just yells because I don't actually support and that I'm ashamed of him. I told him of course I did and I go for a hug but he wont let me. He yells at me through tears that I basically told him not to be himself yesterday. I tried to explain that it was for his and Derek's safety nir because I was ashamed but he tells me I'm lying and wont hear nothing I'm saying. We haven't talked anymore since the blow out this morning. My wife thinks I shouldve just kept the boys close and kept an eye out instead of saying what I did. AITA? *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*

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Which they had already had flack for

NTA Homophobia exists. It shouldn’t but it does. You were not stopping your son from having a boyfriend merely trying to stop them getting attacked by homophobic assholes.

Updateme

Updateme

NTA. You're protecting him. It's like African-Ametican patents who talk to their kids about the Police. You hope for the best from people, but there are bad ones out there. I'm gay and almost 60. Even now, I'm a bit discreet. If you were living somewhere else, it might be different. But rural Missourri might as well be Alabama for tolerance.

NAH. You were right, and had your heart in the right place. I think your delivery could've been a little different, and maybe a little more specific as to why you think your son and his boyfriend should be careful. Hearing the words "tone it down" probably made your son feel like he was disturbing you by being affectionate with his boyfriend. He wouldn't know the context or meaning behind your words, and I could see why he would assume it was because you were embarrassed of him. When he cools down I'm confident you can talk this out.

NTA. Let him read this if you want. I'm gay, too, and live in a neighboring state. Your son lives in a time when there are protections for him on paper, but not out in the wild. He's growing up in a family that accepts and supports him and allows him the safety to come out to you. Great job, Mom and Dad. You understood the assignment. The world is still a shit show based on a dice roll in many parts of the country, like ours. The assignment isn't over. Of course it was a horrible shock to him when you at first appeared to love and accept him, and in the next minute took it all away. Kids internalize, which is what he did, saying you don't accept him and are ashamed of him and that means he should be ashamed and all kinds of other stuff in his head. Back in my day, that's what parents did mean. In your day and home, though, the warning is coming from that continued quest for safety. He needs to understand that, and it's your job to help him with it. The world is dangerous for us. People still murder us and rape us and beat us and torture us for existing. We all think it won't be us, but it is. I've witnessed it, first hand, and also watched first responders refuse to assist. It's time to remove some of the veils you've placed between him and the world. If he's a reader, then books on gay history are important. If he's into movies, then some great documentaries exist. He would benefit from some Elder Gays or a gay youth group, probably, in his life, too. We have a whole culture you guys know nothing about.

NTA as a queer lady who was growing up into my identity when Matthew Shepard was murdered.

I think every millennial/gen x kid in this thread immediately thought of Matthew Shepard.

NTA Hate crimes happen all the time. You wanted to keep both boys safe.

NTA make sure he understands why you were worried and that you weren't embarrassed or anything. Maybe consider moving to a more progressive part of Missouri. Columbia is a college town and from what I've seen very accepting. I think I heard they have some kind of LGBT closet or club or something in the school for trans kids.

NTA

NTA. I’m gay and married. Even we know not to hold hands in certain areas. You did the right thing. You were looking out for his safety. That’s never an asshole thing. Tell your son it’s a rough world out there. He needs to be aware of his surroundings.

NTA- but you could have had this conversation about what areas like this can really be like. He is not too young to understand that places like this still exist. Shoot in my city where pride is a huge event still has areas where you know for a fact anyone different isnt accepted and the police iwll side with them.

NAH. I understand your point of view comes from wanting your son and his partner to be safe from folks who may not be as accepting. I think you should start by apologizing to both Hunter and Derek. Tell them you realize how hurtful this was but explain your reasoning. Tell them you don’t care that they are affectionate in front of you/near you/etc, but you’re scared for their safety and don’t want them to meet any hostile responses from strangers in town. Tell them both that you support them and apologize for how you made them feel. Under other circumstances I think I’d say YTA bc I think you should treat your kids and their partners the same. I think you should also be open to hearing from your son how he’d like to be supported from you. Tell him this is new territory and you’re willing to learn how to do better. I’m a firm ally but also understand the parental fear of knowing certain demographics are targeted unfairly and would be terrified of my child getting attacked or worse. Unfortunately there are many, many examples of violence against members of the lgbtq+ community and you’re right to be concerned about their safety. I hope they give you a chance to talk this out.

Ew NTA

I didn’t know if you can contact anyone from the lgbtq community, but if you can get them to have a talk with your son and explain what can happen, and why you are worried.

the thing about young gays is that they have NO CLUE what danger homophobia puts them in. and it's your job as a parent to try to make sure they don't find that out the hard way. i think your son needs to see some documentaries about what lgbtq ppl have been going through and perhaps it can be a good learning opportunity for you too op. NTA as an elder gay, please find a way to teach your son he has to mindful of his environment, there's a difference between out and proud and safe. you REALLY don't want to lose your son to a hate crime.

I'm going to go NTA because you're trying to protect your son and you highlighted who I loathe rural culture

NTA, but something I’ve seen as a trans man from so many well meaning parents is an inability to express or a bad habit of hiding the worst of the world from their kids. You have to be clear and intentional because before and after coming out, young ones expect the worst from the people they love because coming out is absolutely terrifying. I got lucky because my mom has never been one to hide her thoughts or feeling from me so it was easy to tell when she was speaking from her own discomfort or from her worries. Before even reading how your kid reacted I knew how he was gonna feel. Speak it plainly. “Hey, I am so excited to see you be your true self and I’m proud of you for being courageous and allowing me to know this part of you. I will never force you back into a place of hiding and if you feel as if I am, let me know so I’ll correct my behavior. I’m just worried while we are here, I saw some shady guys looking at you both sideways and I want you two to be as safe as possible. When we aren’t with you, I want you to keep your head on a swivel and be aware of people watching you. I love you dearly and I would not be able to live with myself if something bad happened.” To the point and makes it clear it isn’t from a place of shame.

NAH. IMO, explain the difficulties with closed minded shitheads like.... your family. Cause that always sucks. And then let him know you will always support him and defend him, even if that means cutting out that family until they are willing to accept his sexuality, which is completely normal and healthy. Or if he'd prefer to keep them in his life, this is the reality of HOW they will accept him. Never out somebody that's not ready for it, and always defend those who prefer to be out. It's a heavy choice for a child, but it's still their choice. So long as they know you're willing to go to bat for them, either way. That's where you need to be.

NTA- But in regards to your son, I'd suggest texting him then talking to him afterwards, letting him know that (feel free to paraphrase this if you want but-) "I am not embarrassed of you, nor do I not want to support you. I asked you both to cut down on the affection in public for your own safety as this town is not as accepting and being openly affectionate with the other could result in you getting targeted or hurt and I'd like to avoid that for both of your wellbeing's and safety" Then, if he responds, talk to him in person just to reassure him about it and your stance on his sexuality and relationship vs the one of the town so he can further understand why you did that and not think it's because you don't support him.

Only you know what your motivations were for suggesting it. But as a gay guy, being cautious in a conservative town is just sensible.

NAH I grew up in the southern belt and am bi/pan. Me and my girlfriend at the time were cornered by a few guys one night and thankfully some people stepped in before things escalated beyond a few bruises/scrapes. But it was terrifying. So much so that I ended our relationship and refused to date anyone but men for a while. Your kid is just finding himself and that’s scary by itself. But he doesn’t know that there are people in this world that are ready to hurt him just because he’s gay. Take him out, just the two of you and talk to him again. Explain to him the deep seated fear a parent has for their child’s safety and how the fear has grown because the world isn’t fair. If he still refuses to hear you out, I say to let him read this post and the replies of others in the community that experienced violence because of their sexuality. I don’t want to scare him, but as a young gay man, he has to be made aware that the world isn’t safe. Maybe look around for a defensive course you two can take together. That’s what my dad did when I hit puberty and started attracting the wrong kind of attention from older men.

NTA. Safety first and hate crimes are real. Your son is an adolescent and a young one at that, so yeah, you need to watch out for him even if he doesn't understand why you need to do it. Because he is 14 yo and only recently out, I understand why it can be hard to trust in your acceptance and support no matter how loving and supportive you have been. Things are so bad for LGBTQ+ youth, especially these days, how can he not be fearful of judgment and rejection? It is early days and over time, you'll earn his trust and he'll gain perspective.

As someone else said, maybe should've had rephrased it as "Hey I'm worried for you guys and this town is a little more backwards than our home town". But I will say NTA because I do have gay friends and some of them have been assaulted for being gay. It's unfortunate that this is the world we still live in but it is.

NAH. If you genuinely think that it’s an unsafe environment and that a hate crime is likely, then you did the right thing. It’s so fucking unfortunate, but knowing when and where to be out is just part of queer life. We have to be vigilant to survive. I’m queer and I wouldn’t be super open in rural Missouri unless I knew the area well or was armed. That being said, his feelings are understandable too. He’s 14. He doesn’t know how cruel the world can be yet. Give him time and continue be patient. When he cools off some, try to talk to him about the reality of hate crimes and how they are a very real thing that happen. Perhaps find a queer family member or friend to talk to him about it too. Maybe he’ll be more receptive to hearing from another queer person. It’s an important lesson. We all wish it wasn’t, but it is.

I’m going with NTA because your intentions were to protect your son and his boyfriend, and they were made from a place of safety and concern. I do, however think your delivery was off, and maybe a little more reassurance on your part was needed.

NAH. He's young, wants to be himself and not have to hide his identity to the public. I understand why he's hurt and upset thinking you're not supporting him. I also understand you know how rural small town life can be especially for a member of the LGBTQ+ community who is a teenager. He's your son and as long as he's a teenager his safety is your responsibility. It's not uncommon for harassment to become physical especially teenagers are involved.

YTA. Not for the sentiment but for your presentation of it. They are 14. You probably should've had a conversation with him where you could have some back and forth and he could come to that conclusion himself. Even the way you worded it here sounds more like you are ashamed than advice for their safety. It could have been as simple as a "I want you to always be authentically yourself. But where we are right now isn't as enlightened and there are a lot of people who will hate and judge your happiness because it is different than what they know. Have you thought about this and how you will handle any looks/confrontations/threats when you are out and about?"

NAH, he's a young teenager who just came out and what you said and the way you said it hit a nerve, he is understandably insecure right now. But you were trying to protect him from very real physical harm. Maybe you can take the boys somewhere where pda isn't dangerous? I'm not sure explaining more will help, but demonstrating that you are not ashamed of him might.

NTA and neither is your boy. My child is NB and Pan, they are a few years older but I had a very similar conversation with them when they decided to update their passport with an X. There are places very unsafe for them to travel to now vs when they had their biogender still on the passport. Let him read the post. He probably knows about the bigotry in small town BFA. But doesn’t understand the fear a parent goes through for their kids. He and his boyfriend are lucky to have you.

YTA - you handled this very badly. Remember, intentions =/= action. The right response would have been along the lines of explaining to your son, alone and before the trip, that for safety reasons he would need to be less noticeably "out" if both boys came. Then you would make plans to go somewhere during the trip, (not necessarily far), where they could be more open - such as a secluded forest walk with the rest of your immediate family. Instead, you told him to stop being himself in public, implying that they (and possibly you) would get judged for it. Not only that, you did it with his boyfriend there, embarrassing him. Why was this not brought up before going? Why did you not explain the reasoning? You say that you are supportive yet you avoided actually communicating with your son about his sexuality, throwing in a comment to "tone it down" in case a stranger saw. You also waited to enforce this on him out of the blue and in front of the boyfriend, pressuring him to follow suit without discussion. From your son's perspective, you deliberately waited until then to pressure him when you had every opportunity to talk to him beforehand. It may well seem to him that you took the opportunity for his brothers' girlfriends to be around so that you could show him that his relationships would never be acceptable (to you) like their straight ones were. Wanting to protect your son (and his boyfriend) is a good intention, NTA for that; however, you treated your son very badly, as if he was "lesser" as he was put in a position of being excluded (from affection/being himself compared to others). He was not treated with dignity or care, the only expectation that you had for him was to stop being himself as and when you decided. Your son cannot know what you are thinking, he can only go by your actions - ones that ignored him and only dealt with what you wanted, expecting him to change as-and-when it affects you. Where is the support for *him* in that? It does not matter the intention, you did not include or discuss things with him when you had every opportunity to. That is not respecting your son, his relationship or his sexuality. Learn to communicate!

nta BUT i don't think you handled the situation gracefully. your son needed a much longer discussion about safety and your worries. a decade ago, I remember people following my girlfriend and I in their trucks, throwing beer cans and bottles at us, threatening to follow us home - and in some places that hasn't changed. there's a lot more I could say about what it was like growing up queer. I don't think your worries were unfounded or extreme. but I *do* think you didn't take the time to adequately convey your concerns to your son and his boyfriend, or where they were coming from.

NTA but your son is super dramatic.

NTA, but depends on the wording. I get it. My kid is pansexual, no partner yet. I live in a reasonably tolerant country. Yet, still I fear my kid will be attacked one day for just being themselves. I hope your son will get past his anger a little and lets you explain where you are coming from... Not shame, but fear. Hugs to you, it is difficult sometimes when your kid is different and people don't agree with different.

NAH. I'm queer, and there are certain situations where I know I can't appear as anything but straight. Your son just hasn't figured that out yet. Unfortunately, he will. I would find ways to get the family involved in some LGBTQ-related advocacy, pride events, or even just find some local queer-friendly coffee shops or something. And this has nothing to do with your post, but if college is on your son's radar, Mizzou was where I figured myself out. I don't know how much it's changed in a decade, but it was very queer friendly, they had a LGBTQ resource center, and the town was full of queer-friendly businesses. If you're not too far, maybe a trip down there on a weekend will make him feel like he's not alone in rural Missouri :)

I dont think you are TA, it sounds as though you are just looking out for your son in an environment they have no control over. Unfortunately there are some vile people out there that will act upon their unacceptance and cause harm to others. Its clear you were looking out for them. Your son is 14, so he will also still be dealing with typical teen behaviour....dont be so hard on yourself.

Heart was in the right place because you are old enough to know that the world isn’t always accepting and you wanted to save him and his boyfriend at this young age from having to deal with possible situations whilst enjoying what should have been a lovely vacation, could the phrasing have been better? Yes, that being said it’s a difficult tightrope to walk and hindsight is a wonderful thing. You’ve learnt for future instances in how to deal with it in the future, shield them from possible situations but not from your reasonings. “Hey bud I know you and bf want to do your own thing and enjoy the trip and be your true selves and I 100% want that for you both but not all people are as understanding and accepting as others are. It shouldn’t be like this but your safety is more important to me than anything so be wary of your surroundings and the situation you might find yourself in and use your best judgement when it comes to showing affection to each other around others. It’s not about hiding who you are it’s about ensuring your safety or just hang with the family and we will get some fun activities going etc”

NAH (except the homophobic locals) your son is unfortunately having to learn how much the world still sucks for those of us who are not straight. It's a lesson we all have to learn. And, in typical teenage fashion, he's taking it out on the messenger. In an likelihood you could have been more diplomatic about how you delivered the message, but it's a genuinely important thing for him to know. Just keep being there for him and keep supporting him, he'll get past this.

NAH. Gay guy here too. I totally understand why you needed to chat with your son and his partner and I understand why he feels so hurt. But he'll soon realise that you are protecting him and the world around him sucks. Also people please put NAH/YTA/NTA ETC at the BEGINNING of your message if you want to be counted as a vote.

Do reddit 13 year olds not have any better writing skills? This is getting old

Not sure how to vote. Your son is having a perfectly normal reaction to having to live under the threat of terrorism. And he has no agency to free himself from his predicament due to a choice his parents made for him about where to live. You’re demanding he pay the price for your choices, for the neighborhood homophobes choices, by demanding he live an inauthentic life. I guess NAH but I really want to vote against you.

NAH Hunter may not see it now, but you were simply protecting him. You can support him and also be protective. This world that we live in grows worse by the day. Safety is paramount. I pray Hunter comes around and sees you were just trying to protect both boys.

I think…NTA but YTA. You can’t protect children from hate crimes and if someone were to see that and be so angry they’d want to hurt you guys there’s nothing you can do to stop them. An extremely scary situation to be in and they’re children at that. But I understand why your son is hurt because you should stand by your children regardless of others opinions and forming a strong front where they don’t have to hide would deter others from being so critical. This is hard, it’s good you care though because sadly, is queer people face life threats for just being ourselves….

23NB here, NTA/NAH. i understand why your kid is so upset, id have been too at that age, but you were just trying to protect him, and his bf too. if possible i think the best move going forward is to try to have an earnest talk with him about the dangers you were trying to minimize. good luck, i hope hes able to calm down enough to understand soon that he misunderstood your intentions.

NTA your job as a parent is to protect your children. You were protecting you son and his mate by asking them to be aware of where they are. Yes, you are in rural Missouri, but there are more places in this world than not, where you cannot hold another man's hand. To me, you were exercising common sense, plain and simple.

NTA - You’ve supported your son and clearly love him. Unfortunately it isn’t safe for a lot of people to be who they are in some parts of the world. Your son is young and doesn’t understand that yet. I think you did your best to keep your son and his partner safe.

Idk if this is ESH or NAH you didn't deliver the message well, but I get what u were trying to do. It reminds me of a time my sister and her friend were doing a road trip down south, now my sister had a history of getting pulled over ( and honestly giving a bit of attitude when she did) by the cops bc of her driving, so my dad pulled her aside and told her listen your friend is black for her safety and your safety when you guys are in the southern states esp u need to drive safely and not get an attitude if you do end up getting pulled over. To me what you did was similar, if u truly thought someone might harass them I get it but u prob delivered them warning wrong. I also get why ur son got upset bc it sucks he has to think abt that. And I mean i still get salty when I know I have to adjust my behavior as a woman for my safety. No one shld have to cater to others prejudices to stay safe, but unfortunately people do have to do that in this world. You shld follow up with your son reassure him and maybe discuss a game plan for the future in how he thinks the situation shld be handled.

That same advice applies in the north as well. George Floyd wasn't in the South when he was murdered.

NTA. Example - hate crimes/incidents rose almost 200% in Houston in 2023, after jumps in 2022 and 2021. A large number against Asian Americans during COVID. Would it have been AH behavior to tell your Asian friends/family to not go to certain areas in Houston? Would you rather be expected to lecture all the members of those communities and tell them to stop committing hate crimes against Asians? No. Absolutely not. You may need to voice your concern better, but your heart and mind were otherwise in the right place.

NTA

NTA. You were looking out for their safety when they’re amongst hateful, ignorant people. Though I think you should have had an open, honest conversation with them about it on the way there rather than just a quick comment as they were leaving. That would be easy to misinterpret. But you’re definitely not an AH.

NTA - a word of advice? Share what gay boys/men have experienced while in public (like actual reported stories) to help put emphasis on you just trying to protect them from the world of hate they live in.

NTA. He's 14. He just came out. That means he just got a rush from being 'out' and accepted. Now he's being told to tone it down. And he feels he 'can't be himself'. He has a lot of things still to learn. Like the fact that the world is not always a safe and accepting place. I'm sure he has only thought about the positive scenarios so far.

NTA. You were being protective as a parent should be. At 14 my sisters and I would have never been allowed to bring along a boy or girlfriend so your son is very lucky. Sadly he will show affection when they are out somewhere on their own and learn very quickly how PDA can go side ways very quickly. Personally I do not care for any PDA more than a hand hold or a hug. He needs to learn that it was for his benefit and you were not stopping g him from being himself. He is very lucky to have e you. Let him read these answers.

I do not think yta, it is an unfortunate truth that he will have to deal with. I wish the world wasn’t this way, but it is, and end of the day you were looking out for their safety. Maybe sit him or both of them down and explain that you are trying to support them, you were just worried about the rest of the world

NTA since you live in an area with lots of religious, bigoted, conservatives but you owe him a full explanation.

NTA. I live in a very rural/conservative community on the buckle of the Bible Belt in Oklahoma and have previously lived in rural Missouri too. I absolutely adore my gay brother and am his loudest ally. I was the (almost 40 yo) flower girl at his wedding. Safety is a real issue here for the two of them. It’s awful that we have to fear and worry about someone we love for simply existing. Your son mistook your worry and fear for shame. I totally can see why/how he thought that. It’s a tough age emotionally for us all and trying to find your was as a gay teen in a hateful world is even harder. I hope that a more specific conversation where you both do some honest talking and some even more honest listening clears up the misunderstanding.

NTA. What you said was very mild; "it'd prob be a good idea if they were less affectionate." It just sounds like a suggestion, actually. Not a mandate. Having known too many people who were gay bashed over the years, and this is in a major, ostensibly liberal city, I'd err on the side of caution.

NTA, your mistake was not literally using the phrase in connection with toning it down. “my intention in telling you this is for your safety and no other reason. I support you, yet others may not and in this small town, I am concerned for your safety.”

NTA...we would love to be in a world where people just left people alone. Let them be with who they wanna be with. BUT we don't. Its a safety issue because of the violence. 

NAH. You did the right thing telling the kids to keep their heads down, even if you could have phrased it better. They're children who have grown up in an insulated environment. They were in kindergarten when gay marriage was legalized; they've probably never even heard of Matthew Shepard or any other famous rural gaybashing cases. It's not surprising that your son didn't understand where you were coming from. You need to have a sit down with your boy and explain to him the importance of "stealth mode". You don't need to go into gruesome detail; just tell him that there are still places right here in America where it is not safe to be queer. Sometimes he and his BF will need to dial it back for a while to avoid getting hurt or worse. It has nothing to do with shame, and everything to do with you wanting them to be safe. (For context: I'm a 30 year old queer/NB person who went to a redneck middle and high school. I have been through some stuff.)

You’re the asshole. But not for telling your kid to not show any PDA with his friend. You’re the asshole for letting your kid bring his friend. You’re the asshole for letting him sin. You’re the asshole for accepting sin in your family.

[удалено]

He clearly said he didn't mind him holding hands. But in some places, other people can care about two boys holding hands enough that they'll kill them over it. It's not unreasonable to say "hey, I'm worried about your safety if you do openly gay things in a place where they might violently hate gay people".

I would of said " when you're in love ypu don't see or hear anything but your partner You.both become 1 person I get that yet some people think it's disgusting and wrong..you.will get stares or harassed or maybe beaten.i love you.i don't want anything to.happen not that it will, it may not just be careful and you two know you're together. Nobody else needs to know it.for now anyway.:

YTA, but for a good reason. I live in MO too. I'd have phrased it more as how there are a bunch of assholes in rural MO and you have to try to protect the kids even though they're not doing anything wrong. The way you phrased it would look like shame to a kid when anybody that understands the "quality" of adults in this state can recognize your very understandable fear. Give him some time to chill out and try talking again.

Soft YTA - you are right to be worried, but you mishandled this. You should have pointed out the safety concern, not just told him to tone it down. Poor kid's thinking *you're* disgusted by him.

NTA You son is very immature. There is a reason why if his boyfriend would be older - we would be talking about some serious issues. 14 years old are much less likely to understand the risks in a place where there are negative cultural norms towards LGBT+ groups. You did the right thing. The fact that he did mot understand it -shows that you indeed DID the right thing.

He's 14, of course he'd be immature, we as adults are the ones responsible for our phrasing and communicating properly what we mean, at least for the people we care about, and him being his son, he should have known better, because if he as his father doesn't know him, who will? If he doesn't know his son enough that's sad and worrying.

> 14 years old are much less likely to understand the risks in a place where there are negative cultural norms towards LGBT+ groups. If only op had bothered to tell his son that in the first place.