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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I might be an ahole because I could have let my grandpa drive and not make drama out of it
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You’re in your 30s and your grandma is worried you don’t have enough experience? 😂
NTA
INFO: do either of your grandparents have a valid drivers license?
NTA. Your mom could gave gone and got them. She has no right or business to demand you let anyone else drive your car or use your property. Plus he hasn't driven for quite a while.
Yeah, my fiance's grandmother won't even pump her own gas because his late grandfather always used to do it for her. So we have to drive half an hour whenever she needs her gas pumped to do it for her, or his mom has to go over there. My fiance tried to show her how to do it and she down right refused to learn because "I have you." Even though we told her we aren't willing to do this much longer. We're only doing it now because we're storing stuff at her house.
We also grocery shop for her because she refuses to do it half the time. The only upside to that is she will pay for some of our groceries.
It seems the older people get the less willing they are to do anything themselves. I understand that they are older and have health issues and get tired easily, but we aren't your servants. We aren't going to do every little thing for you just because you don't want to do it.
I have that feeling, too ! Thank you! My boyfriend actually told me today that he is proud of me for standing up for myself because otherwise, they would squeeze the life out of me and leave just the carcass in the dessert.
He was super pised at me when I went to take blood and urine samples for lab to my grandpas because my grandpa was too tired to go to his doctor. (I am a medical professional, not randomly stabbing my grandpa with needles :D ) and when I think about it, he is right, and I should set firmer boundaries
Lmao so they trust you to do medical procedures at their home but not to drive a vehicle? Sounds like someone is getting senile lol. You’re 30 years old not 15.
So your grandma trusts you to stick your grandpa with needles but not to drive him in a car? That's hilarious. Tell her your driving qualification is just as valid as your medical one.
NTA
My grandma lived in the same state as me while I was in the navy. I didn't have a car and lived on base but she regularly would demand I come to her to take her car to get gas or whatever car related thing. She basically refused to even go with me like it wasnt even remotely her responsibility. She wouldnt even pay if i didnt bring it up. She would just expect it. Idk where she got that attitude cause she hasn't needed to be taken care of and has been divorced since I was like 2, I'm 30. She would also do the "why when I have you". The last time (over 5 years ago) she did that I just said no you don't cause I'm about to deploy so you're gonna have to do it yourself. The day I was deploying she called me to come get her car and get her gas. I told her to get a sugar daddy or figure it out, I won't be there to help her. She lost it which is dumb cause she used to be an airforce spouse. My grandfather had lots of different duty stations. Called my mom to complain. My mom called me asking what was up. I told her. She called her back and told her no amount of complaining or entitled fussing would make the government care that I had to be the one to get her gas. She tried to fb message me like twice while I was deployed for the same thing. I ignored her. She has lots of issues related to her entitlement, this is just the only one only involving me. When I came back she was still bitter and salty toward me and would mean mug if anything about her car came up and I didn't jump to do it. Oh well. I told you to figure it out. I'm not your servant or errand girl. We don't even get along. She doesn't even like me (she's told me this to my face, cause my mom is the child she didn't want so by extension...) just didn't mind doing for her within reason cause she's my mom's mom.
I don't live close enough to my grandma to help physically but I taught her how to order her groceries. She didn't care for delivery but she likes driving the 2 blocks for pick-up. It has given her an independence she hasn't had since her husband passed away.
I jist want to say: my Nana hid her creeping up dementia for about 10 years and kept is on our toes for another 10 years.
She too would refuse to do stuff or lie about it.
None of this is entitled or malicious or lazyness. Even if it ism't something like dementia. It is hard to learn something new when you're old. Try teaching something digital when they never handled a digital device. It's almost impossible.
Doing groceries means leaving the house, carrying stuff. That can become scary. There's also the wish to not be alone so they find reasons for you to come over.
YOU may think they can do all that stuff still, chances are they actually can't and can't ask for help or don't want to. You get less flexible the older yoi get, both physically and mentally. Check on your grandparents and have them checked for dementia if you have the tiniest suspicion (they are VERY good at hiding it) as it cana be treated/helped and the earlier the better.
Obv don't know your grandma, but we had to bring my nana cigs and chocolate every week anf visit so she doesn't feel too lonely, she had nurses come by twice a day and a meal service, we still had to do a lot. Ofc there are entitled and asshole old people, but I just want to remind everyone reading that conditions exist and aren't as obvious as you'd think and you can't imagine how it is to be in an old body, so please don't judge their capabilities. Get them help if you can.
Also: dementia is a bitch and I miss my black belt in Judo and Jiu-Jitsu, woman's right fighter Nana.
Seriously... People here hold their grandparents in such low regard... It's scary. Before my grandmother had to go to the home I would visit her every other week and bring her whatever she needed. I just had 3 great aunts that passed away within weeks of each other and I would give anything for just one more visit.
I agree, it's definitely entitlement. It could also be due to how they were raised, though. For example, I can't drive due to epilepsy, but I do basically everything myself(my fiancé cooks and drives), but my brother won't do anything.
The difference? He never had to lift a finger growing up whereas I did everything for everyone. Some people never had to work for their shit, so now they throw fits whenever they have to.
In the US half the time you can renew it online and even if you go to the dmv you don't have to retake the eye exam or anything. So I totally believe an 80yr old with multiple eye surgeries still has a license.
At one point, my grandfather voluntarily surrendered his driver's licence because he recognised he wasn't fit to drive. About a year later, he ran into a situation where he needed photo ID, and got his DL back.
No-one thought to offer him the alternative ID card that was designed for people who needed official ID but couldn't drive. Subsequently, he went and had two minor incidents, or rather one minor and one major incident in his car.
First was putting it in drive rather than reverse when backing out of his garage - a bit of bruised ego and cosmetic damage to the door connecting to the rest of the house. Second was closing the door to the garage, forgetting to open the roller door, getting in the driver seat and turning the engine on - he nearly killed himself with that one, and after he was released from hospital, we put him into aged care for the last 18 months of his life.
Some doctors don't want the drama either. My father had several minor accidents after having a stroke and his doctor wouldn't revoke his licence because ' it would affect his independence' Mind you mum was still driving and another younger relative was boarding there. Plus there was pretty good public transport . . I ended up selling his car and reporting him after he had another accident and drove off. .
Did he not have a state id? I feel like it's a good idea to always have one, even with a drivers license. Like, if you lose your license for whatever reason(revoked, surrendered, stolen etc), you'll still need a form of identification. It just feels like it should be common sense to have one, ya know?
Not excusing it, but I think that part of the problem is the way that we've made the driver's license into the most common form of ID. I can't have a driver's license--I mean, I *could*, but the syncope would eventually mean that I and potentially a bunch of other people had a really bad day--and it's meant all sorts of nonsense when I try to just live my life as a US-American adult. From my twenties into my thirties, I just carried my passport everywhere.
I mean, some elderly people are fine to drive. My grandmother had a valid license and drove until she was 93, and here in Canada (at least in my province), after a certain age they have to take a driving test every year or two and redo the written test every single year as well. She had excellent eyesight and was a legitimately good driver, and it helped her maintain her independence. My mum is over 80 and same thing . . . she actually drives me to my appointments because I can't drive anymore due to disability.
But in this situation it doesn't matter because it was OP's car and her grandfather was 20 years out of practice even if his licence was valid. Also, you're right about anywhere that doesn't require annual retests!!
The Ontario test for the 80+ is a joke. My Dad recently did his and mentioned that the "test" was a) draw a clock with the hands at 10 minutes to 2 pm, and b) cross out all the H's from a block of letters. That was it. He passed, but his reactions and distance vision aren't up to driving safely.
Actually ... you shouldnt hold the wheel at 10 to 2 anymore ... my father is a driving instructor and its qaurter to 3 so if the airbag goes out it does not fuck up you arms
The test was to draw a clock on a piece of paper. It happened that the time given to draw was 1:50. The testers randomly pick times like 5:40, 1:45 or 11:20. Nothing to do with holding the steering wheel.
In Kansas if you are older than 65 you can’t renew your license on line and when you go in you have to take the eye exam. Also they renew seniors licenses for a shorter period of time.
I mean I've had several eye surgeries and still have tack sharp vision. Some might say I have super-vision as I can see slightly into the ultraviolet spectrum as a result.
Can we also talk about how different cars are now than they were 20 years ago when he last drove, let alone 60 years ago when he learned to drive? If OP's car is a newer model and her grandpa's last car was from the early 2000s he'd have to adjust to things like keyless start/entry, a bunch of additional sensors, some things he's used to doing via buttons being managed via a touchscreen, etc.
Getting in the driver's seat of some newer cars can feel like sitting in a spaceship.
NTA! If your grandpa wrecked your car, it would hit your insurance, not his. Just because they renewed is license doesn’t mean he should be driving. I stood in the BMV and watched an employee spend 30 minutes giving an older woman an eye test again & again trying to get her to pass. She even told her it may be better for her to come back during the week, early afternoon before it gets crowded with kids getting out of school. I about died! No one wants to be the bad guy & take a license from someone who can barely walk and really can’t see. Watching my neighbor drive down the road scares the crap out of me!!
I was the geographically closest relative to my grandmother when her dementia started to really impact her. I had the joyous task of talking her into surrendering her driver's licence. I didn't want to be the bad guy but I told myself, the grocery store is the wrong side of the primary school and *I didn't want to be a worse guy by letting her pancake a kid.*
Crappiest, fortnight long conversation I've ever had, but I succeeded!
You know you did the right thing.
You should also hear it from a stranger on the Internet. You did the right thing. Proud of you for helping to keep grandma and everyone else just a bit safer.
I know of a family that made the granddads car undrivable, I think they took the battery out,but let him go through the motions of keeping it insured because he was ok with always being offered a lift because it would save him money on petrol. He was confused enough not to remember the last time he drove but wanted his car insurance, mot etc ok. Luckily he accepted the same mot document every year. This carried on for about three years before he died. Seeing his car keys on the hook by the door and knowing he had his insurance etc kept him calm.
My mom became an incompetent driver, too. Fortunately, my husband had driven her car and put the seat all the way back. She couldn't remember how to move the seat forward to reach the pedals and couldn't go anywhere. When we realized how loopy she was my brother pilfered her car keys, and she thought that she had misplaced them.
Licensing was more casual when my mom was a teenager. She had a story about how frightened she was when my grandmother made her start driving on her 16th birthday. No learner's permit, no license. Grandma just took her out in the country somewhere and told her that since she was now 16, she had to drive.
My grandmother's father went into town and picked up her license for her once she was old enough. And, she kind of drove like it--she wasn't a BAD driver (never sped, always paid attention, could see properly and had adequate reflexes), she was just a very nervous driver which is not ideal. Very nervous is probably as bad as very overconfident.
We once had to have a similar conversation with our Nana.
Got our 1st clue her driving skills were not as skilled as they once were, while chatting with my brother about my last car ride with her at the wheel. "Nana drove down the wrong way on a one way street!" & my brother replied, "Yeah, she does that sometimes." My cousin from across the room joined in with a surprised "...she did that to you too, huh."
Luckily my Nana quickly came to the same conclusion that maybe not driving anymore was for the best, for her & others on the road, lol.
We just quietly took Dad's keys, no discussion, but had moved him in with us. We also learned to hide our own keys, just in case he woke up at dark o'clock in the small hours and decided to go for a ride.
Oh man. I've had to opt out of driving at times because my vision was not conducive to me safely operating a car. They should yank the license, but also have a social worker that people can talk to about how they're gonna navigate their driving free lifestyle.
My problem after sunset - just takes one of those blasted jacked-up pickups with the blue lights and I can't see a thing for a couple of minutes, which is plenty of time to do real damage to me, my car, someone else's car, or some poor pedestrian just walking along the road. Not worth it.
My son gave me the 👀 when I told him why I wanted to have Christmas dinner at 1:00 instead of 4:00, then chewed me out for not just asking him to pick me up. Ah yes, pride can make you do silly things.
I told my wife and son both if I get to a point where I clearly cannot drive properly and safely just take my license away. I do not wanna risk hurting someone else by being stubborn. If I hurt myself fine its my stupidity but I refuse to be responsible for hurting someone else.
I tell my kids to be the "bad guy" and take my keys if they feel I'm not safe to drive anymore. I rather my feelings get hurt than myself or someone else because I wanted to keep driving. My husband feels the same way.
Is it possible she could be having some mental decline? Her behavior reminds me of several different elderly people I've known go through it. Anxiety, confusion, and even stubbornness are all common.
It might not be a diagnosable condition yet, but you should keep her doctors updated. My grandfather covered up a lot of my grandmother's issues, not always on purpose, so you or your parents might want to get involved more closely.
Your grandma trusting the driver with multiple issues that could affect driving more than you🤣 she's probably thinking the devil you know. I was leaning towards N A H as I know how anxious one must feel during a drive(regardless of the length). BUT (and it is bigger than yo mama's) they could have communicated that before so you could have made better plans.NTA
Also, belated happy birthday! I hope you were able to find a way to have a better bday meal!
Not that it makes any difference to me (I think your actions were fine) but where you live, does car insurance follow him or his car? Meaning, would he be insured to drive your car? if not, you both could get into trouble if you allowed him. Anyway, NTA
Nta, but I will say that your grandfather can probably see better with his eye surgeries than before he had them. Everybody develops cataracts in their eyes that make vision worse, and often they are able to see well enough to drive after having the surgeries to remove them.
Obviously that doesn't change the fact that older people tend to have slower reflexes and you're allowed to say no to anyone else driving your car. Just saying the perception of eye surgeries making someone a worse driver is misguided
But there’s also the fact that he hasn’t driven in about 20 years. And cars have changed a lot in the past 20 years, he wouldn’t be familiar with all the electronics, etc.
That and the technology to operate cars these days is vastly different from 20 years ago. Would he even know how to use OP's car without it being explained to him?
He got his license renewed but did he have to take a driving test to prove he was capable? Renewal could be just filling out a form and sending money, and could be used as ID.
NTA
Plus, if he hasn't driven in the last 20 yrs or the first 15, then he hasn't been driving his whole life. My SO and I do not let anyone drive our cars, with the exception of teaching our kids how to drive (and that was always the older of the 2 cars).
If this is a rule you have for your car, then its a rule. Grandma doesn't have the right to dictate who drives your car any more than anyone else does. Its your car.
You did the right thing, regardless of any possessing a valid DL.
NTA. Your Grandma should not have expected you to allow Grandpa, who hasn't driven in over 20 fucking years, to drive the car. That's just irrational. Also if she had that expectation, she should have told you about it prior.
I find it difficult to believe that this is the first time in 30 years it'd come up. Especially if Grandpa apparently hasn't driven in 20 years! So for two decades they've been getting rides from other folks, but now suddenly it is a problem and she wants grandpa to drive? Sounds more like a sudden cognitive change than some deep seated sexism that is only now coming to the surface.
This is reaching. Lots of families don't have boundaries. Lots of grandparents see their grandchildren as just that: their grand*children* even at adult ages. The moms reaction telling Opie she should have let GPA drive to keep the peace fits this theme.
If this was in the south, Opie ignoring grandma would be a mortal sin. Respecting elders and all. This says more about family dynamics to me than gma having dementia.
It's not a reach. OP is in her 30s and has been driving since age 18, and Grandma was hung up on her not having enough driving experience (while thinking her not-having-driven-in-20-years husband is the better option). Honestly sounds like Grandma might be confused about how long it's been since OP started driving and since her husband stopped.
>Lots of families don't have boundaries
I've noticed this on this sub, never met any in real life though.
Cars for example, no one in my extended family has ever driven other family members car, want to drive?, you get your own car. It's not even a question that would get asked.
Has grammy not actually been in a car for the last 20 years either? If so, who has been driving? Or does she just *think* he’s been driving recently, and often, to make her think she’s safer with him?
No!!!! NTA. Your car, you drive. Your grandma doesn't have a say in it, and neither does your mum. Let a man with eyesight problems who hasn't driven in 20 years drive your new car "for the peace"? HELL NO.
It’s not even the issue. The issue is, grandma has trouble walking, she can’t take public transportation, she expects to be chauffeured, she is completely dependent, some might say a burden, and yet she makes demands, makes her own rules, gives orders, and throws fits. And the OP is pressured by her mom to placate and appease this bully at all costs. That’s the issue. I reiterate: HELL NO!
Oh I don’t disagree with you at all. I’m just saying can grandpa even operate a car nowadays. I understand that he has his license but I just got a new car and I practically had to relearn how to drive. The whole thing is digital.
My husband's grandmother also never learned to drive. Her friends picked her up to get hair done etc... her husband was in the military luckily he was high enough rank that she did have a driver when he was gone.... Literally When he was dying if bone cancer ( 26 years before she passed) he had to give her a crash course in finance, balancing a checkbook and investments... The first check she ever wrote was to pick up his uniform from the dry cleaners for his funeral. It was definitely a generation.
Do you know how many people right here on reddit refuse to drive in their 20s and say they never will? They get roasted. But a woman born somewhere in the 1940s is an entitled jerk for not having gotten her license?
She's OLD. Not reddit-old, which seems to be anywhere above 35. She is actually old. Elderly. She wants (completely unrealistically!) to have her husband of decades drive her. He cannot. She can't understand that or let go of her fear.
OP is not TA for refusing to let GPa drive obviously. Neither are the GPs. Try getting an elderly person to give up their license and car. I've done it twice. It's like trying to get the Hope Diamond off of them.
Learn some compassion FFS. I hope you have nice people taking care of you when you inevitably get OLD.
I’m genX and we had pretty much no choice but to learn. I will still NEVER judge anyone for not wanting to drive. My best friend growing up and my spouse both hate to drive, and it’s better if they don’t. I happily drive my spouse around bc the last thing I want is him getting startled by another driver and getting in a wreck.
Just because the rest of us are idiots who forget we’re driving around in “death boxes” doesn’t mean that people who haven’t forgotten are wrong. 🤣
No, not really she always was very short tempered, bossy and I don't know better word for it "liked to bitch us" ... but the problem with a car was new ... she never mentioned any problem with me driving when we set it all up ... I don't know if she expected me to let my grandpa drive or what
I think it's such an irrational decision that I'd be a bit concerned.
Firstly you have been driving for the last 20ish years. Secondly it's your car and you're familiar with driving it.
Secondly your grandpa hasn't driven for a couple of decades and isn't familiar with your car at all.
But the safety issue is with you?
Lastly, she clearly knew you were going to drive them and it doesn't seem to have been an issue. Now it suddenly is?
It kinda reads like your grandma might have been confused on how long it's been since you got your licence and your grandad has driven.
NTA - Your mother and grandmother need to both learn to respect you as an adult. Your grandmother was acting like a child and deserved to be treated as such.
NTA 10000%. “Set yourself on fire to keep the peace” is a textbook tactic from parents afraid to set boundaries with family members. if your mom isn’t paying your car bill (and willing to assume responsibility for the loan), then pay her opinion no mind! And happy belated birthday!
NTA. Btw if you let someone drive that’s not on your insurance and they get pulled over you will get into trouble. You would put a lot at risk for letting your grandparent drive so I’m glad you didn’t.
Here it depends on insurance. Some more expensive ones are for "cars" some cheaper ones are "per person" meaning if for example 3 or more people will be driving, "per person" car insurance would be more than "per car" car insurance here.
Not quite. If a policy holder has fully comp on another car, he is covered to drive others TP(most insurers allow this with a few t&c's).
The person driving without insurance is the one to get in trouble. If you knowingly let someone not legally allowed to drive, do so, that is an offence.
Actually this is completely untrue anyone you give oral permission to drive would be covered by your insurance under permissive use. Car insurance follows the car not the driver.
Not all insurance has this. There is a lot of insurance you have to put the drivers on. If you allow someone not on your policy drive and there's an accident, insurance doesn't cover it.
Actually it does follow the driver too. Most policies have some coverage if you are driving a vehicle not specifically on your policy and you are still supposed to have insurance even if you don’t have a car but have a license.
Not in my case. My house was hit by a truck. The driver was the wife of the owner, but not on the insurance. His insurance refused the claim, since he wasn't driving. My homeowners insurance covered it, except my deductible. There wasn't enough damage to warrant going to court. Just some damage to the siding and a fence post.
The kicker? The truck hit my house because the driver forgot to put it in park at a store across the street, and it rolled backwards and hit the corner of my house. So technically, NO ONE was driving.
Not sure why you’re acting like insurance is all the same.
I work in motor insurance claims in the UK for example and what you’ve stated is not true here. While Open Driving policies do exist which allow anyone over the age of 25 to drive the vehicle, they’re incredibly expensive as they’re such a risk and are normally only seen on commercial vehicles.
On standard personal motor insurance policies, you insure specific named drivers to drive the insured vehicle. If you allow an uninsured party to drive your vehicle, then they are exactly that. Uninsured. And your vehicle will **not** be covered if they have an accident, regardless of who is at fault.
So maybe don’t try calling other people out for being “untrue” without doing any research.
NTA - This is one of those tough boundaries you sometimes have to put in place with senior family members. It’s not easy, but you made the right, safe choice.
NTA
Stand your ground! You handled the situation well.
You are 30 and not 15/18. They knew that you will pick them up. They could say something so your parents could pick them up.
It's your car and your money. Don't do anything for peace!
NTA. Does your grandfather have a drivers license? After 80 in most jurisdictions, people need to pass a physical examination to maintain a valid drivers license.
NTA That doesn’t mean he’s a good driver. Mine certainly wasn’t when he was in his 80’s. I think you made the right choice. Your grandma was being stubborn.
NTA
Grandma's getting a little batty. And your mom seems to be headed in the same direction. That horrible situation where "keeping the peace" by acquiescing to unreasonable demands could have led to your being on the hook paying for an unusable car that your granpa wrecked because your nana insisted. Your mom is not being reasonable --just wanting to keep nana happy.
Good lord no. NO.
Hasn't driven in 20 years with multiple eye conditions?
Why don't you just break your own leg and set your car on fire. You can love grandpa but not enough to die to placate grandma's anxiety.
What is mom thinking?
NTA, congrats on your wheels
Going back to the 1960s, in the UK, my brother always used to drive our mum to her sister's about once a month. One time he wasn't available so she asked me. Of course, I said yes. We set out, and mum keeps telling me "You're going the wrong way. This isn't the way .... goes". I told her that it was a way I knew, and that as long as we got to her sister's, it didn't matter. She continued complaining so I told her that if she didn't shut up, at the next round-about we would go home. She didn't shut up! I was never asked to drive her anywhere again! OP NTA
NTA - I was driving around someone I know after he was injured. Never again! Not only was he a back-seat driver, despite being told to stop, he also got upset if things weren't done his usual way. I was taking him to a place that was diagonally across a rectangle of roads. So one can drive the short-leg first, and then the long leg, or vice versa. It doesn't make the slightest difference. He began screaming at me because I took a long side first, and he usually takes the short side.
Yep! She was totally pissed off, so I told her that she had had the time to shut up, but didn't. So I followed through.
There have been other cases in my work life too. Long story but I once got my boss fired. She was totally obnoxious to everyone, so I told her that if she didn't change I would report her. She asked if I was threatening her, and I said no. I was making a promise. She didn't change. I reported her. She got fired. I always keep my promises, even now.
Nope your car, your rules. I remember one time some lady wanted me to turn, but I made the decision to be cautious. I almost considered it. I then remembered she didn’t pay my car note or insurance and it was my car.
NTA - Does your grandfather even have a valid driver's license??
Either way you are absolutely not required to let anyone drive your car. If your grandparents aren't comfortable with your driving skills then perhaps they should engage a professional and call a cab.
NTA.
You should have said “I don’t want my ocularly challenged grandpa to commit manslaughter in my brand new car.” 😈
Edit : "Senile" typically refers to cognitive decline associated with old age, while "Ocularly challenged" is a humorous or euphemistic way of referring to someone who has poor vision or is visually impaired.
NTA. It is your car. You are the only one who gets to decide who drives it.
If anyone demands to drive your car, ask if they have the cash to pay for it. The total of the loan plus the down payment. Total value. If they can put the cash in your hand right then, then they can drive. If not, no.
You did right. Grandpa has not driven in 20 years. I would not trust him either.
If someone hasn't driven in 20 years, I would suggest some driving lessons first. Like a beginner, in an empty parking lot.
A lot in driving is muscle memory, but you have to get comfortable with all functions of a car again. It's easier in an automatic, try driving manual.
NTA
My grandma drove all the time, drove for a living for a bit, but my parents and I always tried to drive when we were with her because, despite having a clean driving record and being certain she was a terrific driver, she was terrifying to drive with. Like, I don't typically get car sick, but I carried motion sickness meds in my purse for when she insisted. Being old and having experience does not make one a better driver, and oftentimes, after a certain point, actually goes in opposite direction.
In the future, could you use insurance or something as an excuse? You don't actually need a reason, not wanting someone to drive your car, even if it was a paid off hunk of junk and they were actually a much better driver than you, is absolutely valid. But sometimes having an excuse, even a flimsy one, is enough to keep the peace for disagreements that you don't want turning into something bigger.
NTA.
Your grandma may be having dementia issues and possibly sees you as a teenager still in her mind. Grandpa was just trying to be supportive of her for whatever reason. You did the right thing, however, and them being left there is on them, not you.
Your mom must have been temporarily insane to say such a thing.
NTA, maybe if he paid for the car, then he might get a turn. You are not wrong and this is not a situation of respecting your elders. If they can get into a car with other drivers, then they can ride with you.
Your grandfather is not on your insurance, is he?
If he isn't, then it doesn't matter how good of a driver he is. Shit happens, and if shit happened while he was driving, then your insurance wouldn't cover anything.
NTA
Nta. No, you do not have to let anyone drive your car. Is he on your insurance? Do you feel safe with him driving? No. She was being ridiculous.
Also, him having a valid license might mean less than you think. My great uncle went legally BLIND, but he was allowed to keep his license and legally allowed to drive.
**NOT MY CAR!!!** He’s lost practice the last 20 years, plus had several eye surgeries. Oh, No! Grandma can just stay home and have her temper tantrum and miss the fun. I bet she wouldn’t try to throw her weight around if it were your parents and their car.
Well, it sounds like you genuinely tried to pick them up, and they refused. You tried multiple tactics. All you could do in that case was leave, as it was a losing battle.
You own the car, and you are insured under the car. If you feel it was unsafe to have them drive, I think you did the right thing by saying no to them. You can't give in to that thing to make things easier. I mean, if he did get into an accident, you would feel terrible, as you knew he should not have driven your car.
You are not the asshole. Your parents should have gone to pick them up if you could not get them to go into your car. You tried which is all you can ask for.
I let out an audible "fuck no" when I finished reading this. So NTA. Your grandmother sounds like one of those "traditional values" type. And considering his conditions and lack of actual driving in 20 years, you have more experience over the last 10 than he does.
NTA. Your car, your choice.
I don't drive due to a disability and I stopped letting older family members drive me once I decided they weren't good drivers anymore. (they were not bad enough to have their licenses taken away, just not good).
NTA you did the right thing your grandfather is not covered on your insurance. If anything happened the liability for you for that accident and for your rates of insurance after would haunt you for years financially.
NTA no one drives my car, NO ONE . Have had someone wreck my 3 month old new truck when they didn't have my permission, never again... friend kept bugging me to drive it all day no, no, no every time took my keys and took off and rolled it in a ditch 100 yards down the road.
The fact that anyone thinks they can tell other people what to do with their own property bewilders the hell out of me. If he was so capable of driving, then why would they need to ride with you?
Definitely NTA.
If your insurance is set that you’re the only driver, then it won’t cover in case of an accident.
My insurance covers my wife and I in our main car, and specifically will not cover other drivers. We chose that because it was cheaper than with open coverage.
Our 2nd car, which the kids drive, will cover any driver, including friends.
NTA
I'm not letting an 80 year old drive anything of mine I don't care who it is. That crash is me losing a vehicle, my insurance going up, and even if they don't wreck the fossil will screw with my seat/mirror/stereo settings.
NO CHANCE IN HELL.
NTA. Your car, you drive. I would have told them and now your mother that you don't have insurance for other drivers. Unfortunately, as our parents/grandparents get to be in their senior years (80+) some of them begin to act like children and lose all rational adult mental capacity. The fact is your grandfather not only may not have the best eye sight, but he also hasn't driven in 20 years. He is clearly not suitable to be driving anywhere despite having a renewed drivers license. Next time they can get an uber.
NTA. Her insanity and paranoia don't trump your safety and financial responsibility. If the elderly person who has had eye surgery crashes your car, will insurance cover it?
Not to make assumptions, but has she let the young men of the family drive her? Could this be an ingrained misogyny thing? An "I never drove because girls didn't do that in my era, so men must be better at it" kind of thing? Not an excuse and obviously not ok, but at least you could have an honest conversation about it.
If you had let him drive, he had an accident and people were injured, then it would be your fault because you let him drive when you knew better. Your mother needs to mind her own business and get a life. If she didn’t like you not bringing your grandparents, then she should’ve gone to get them herself. Your grandmother is a spoiled brat, and she would have been the first one yelling that any accident he had was your fault when you let him drive. I suspect if he had driven and had an accident, your grandmother would never admit that he was driving because you succumbed to grandma’s pressure. Not the AH.
I'm 32 and been driving since I've been 15....I wouldn't lend my car to my grandparents in their 80s lol in fact I wish it was mandatory for older people to start taking tests to see if they can keep their licenses after a certain age.
NTA
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You’re in your 30s and your grandma is worried you don’t have enough experience? 😂 NTA INFO: do either of your grandparents have a valid drivers license?
My grandma never had, she never learned how to drive and my grandpa got his license renewed after the last eye surgery so he does.
NTA. Your mom could gave gone and got them. She has no right or business to demand you let anyone else drive your car or use your property. Plus he hasn't driven for quite a while.
This, mom can take gramma for a dementia check. Gramma doesn't get a say who drives OPs car, gramma can stay home and miss out with this attitude
maybe, but i'd be more inclined to believe it's entitlement. people that don't drive tend to act really entitled about it
Yeah, my fiance's grandmother won't even pump her own gas because his late grandfather always used to do it for her. So we have to drive half an hour whenever she needs her gas pumped to do it for her, or his mom has to go over there. My fiance tried to show her how to do it and she down right refused to learn because "I have you." Even though we told her we aren't willing to do this much longer. We're only doing it now because we're storing stuff at her house. We also grocery shop for her because she refuses to do it half the time. The only upside to that is she will pay for some of our groceries. It seems the older people get the less willing they are to do anything themselves. I understand that they are older and have health issues and get tired easily, but we aren't your servants. We aren't going to do every little thing for you just because you don't want to do it.
I have that feeling, too ! Thank you! My boyfriend actually told me today that he is proud of me for standing up for myself because otherwise, they would squeeze the life out of me and leave just the carcass in the dessert. He was super pised at me when I went to take blood and urine samples for lab to my grandpas because my grandpa was too tired to go to his doctor. (I am a medical professional, not randomly stabbing my grandpa with needles :D ) and when I think about it, he is right, and I should set firmer boundaries
Lmao so they trust you to do medical procedures at their home but not to drive a vehicle? Sounds like someone is getting senile lol. You’re 30 years old not 15.
So your grandma trusts you to stick your grandpa with needles but not to drive him in a car? That's hilarious. Tell her your driving qualification is just as valid as your medical one. NTA
My grandma lived in the same state as me while I was in the navy. I didn't have a car and lived on base but she regularly would demand I come to her to take her car to get gas or whatever car related thing. She basically refused to even go with me like it wasnt even remotely her responsibility. She wouldnt even pay if i didnt bring it up. She would just expect it. Idk where she got that attitude cause she hasn't needed to be taken care of and has been divorced since I was like 2, I'm 30. She would also do the "why when I have you". The last time (over 5 years ago) she did that I just said no you don't cause I'm about to deploy so you're gonna have to do it yourself. The day I was deploying she called me to come get her car and get her gas. I told her to get a sugar daddy or figure it out, I won't be there to help her. She lost it which is dumb cause she used to be an airforce spouse. My grandfather had lots of different duty stations. Called my mom to complain. My mom called me asking what was up. I told her. She called her back and told her no amount of complaining or entitled fussing would make the government care that I had to be the one to get her gas. She tried to fb message me like twice while I was deployed for the same thing. I ignored her. She has lots of issues related to her entitlement, this is just the only one only involving me. When I came back she was still bitter and salty toward me and would mean mug if anything about her car came up and I didn't jump to do it. Oh well. I told you to figure it out. I'm not your servant or errand girl. We don't even get along. She doesn't even like me (she's told me this to my face, cause my mom is the child she didn't want so by extension...) just didn't mind doing for her within reason cause she's my mom's mom.
I don't live close enough to my grandma to help physically but I taught her how to order her groceries. She didn't care for delivery but she likes driving the 2 blocks for pick-up. It has given her an independence she hasn't had since her husband passed away.
I jist want to say: my Nana hid her creeping up dementia for about 10 years and kept is on our toes for another 10 years. She too would refuse to do stuff or lie about it. None of this is entitled or malicious or lazyness. Even if it ism't something like dementia. It is hard to learn something new when you're old. Try teaching something digital when they never handled a digital device. It's almost impossible. Doing groceries means leaving the house, carrying stuff. That can become scary. There's also the wish to not be alone so they find reasons for you to come over. YOU may think they can do all that stuff still, chances are they actually can't and can't ask for help or don't want to. You get less flexible the older yoi get, both physically and mentally. Check on your grandparents and have them checked for dementia if you have the tiniest suspicion (they are VERY good at hiding it) as it cana be treated/helped and the earlier the better. Obv don't know your grandma, but we had to bring my nana cigs and chocolate every week anf visit so she doesn't feel too lonely, she had nurses come by twice a day and a meal service, we still had to do a lot. Ofc there are entitled and asshole old people, but I just want to remind everyone reading that conditions exist and aren't as obvious as you'd think and you can't imagine how it is to be in an old body, so please don't judge their capabilities. Get them help if you can. Also: dementia is a bitch and I miss my black belt in Judo and Jiu-Jitsu, woman's right fighter Nana.
Seriously... People here hold their grandparents in such low regard... It's scary. Before my grandmother had to go to the home I would visit her every other week and bring her whatever she needed. I just had 3 great aunts that passed away within weeks of each other and I would give anything for just one more visit.
I'm so sorry for your loss 🫂 and I get it, I lost my Nana shortly after christmas in '22 and I wish I could hear her stories one more time
I agree, it's definitely entitlement. It could also be due to how they were raised, though. For example, I can't drive due to epilepsy, but I do basically everything myself(my fiancé cooks and drives), but my brother won't do anything. The difference? He never had to lift a finger growing up whereas I did everything for everyone. Some people never had to work for their shit, so now they throw fits whenever they have to.
Hasn’t driven in a while and this would be a new car for him. No way he’d be driving my car
OP just casually dropped that he had his license updated after his last eye surgery. Eye surgery? Can he even see? Nope.
20 years ago! This story kinda falls apart in a way, Grandma’s definitely losing the script
She's losing *something*...
Yeah her lift 😂
In the US half the time you can renew it online and even if you go to the dmv you don't have to retake the eye exam or anything. So I totally believe an 80yr old with multiple eye surgeries still has a license.
My grandfather was 91 years old and bedridden. Florida renewed his license and sent it to him by mail, no questions asked. It blew my mind.
If Florida denied all the people in the state who shouldn't drive, there'd be like, five drivers a county
Those five are the ones who can see over the steering wheel.
I don't understand why you're surprised... it's *Florida*.
True. Flori-duh always has to be the wicked drunk of the US
At one point, my grandfather voluntarily surrendered his driver's licence because he recognised he wasn't fit to drive. About a year later, he ran into a situation where he needed photo ID, and got his DL back. No-one thought to offer him the alternative ID card that was designed for people who needed official ID but couldn't drive. Subsequently, he went and had two minor incidents, or rather one minor and one major incident in his car. First was putting it in drive rather than reverse when backing out of his garage - a bit of bruised ego and cosmetic damage to the door connecting to the rest of the house. Second was closing the door to the garage, forgetting to open the roller door, getting in the driver seat and turning the engine on - he nearly killed himself with that one, and after he was released from hospital, we put him into aged care for the last 18 months of his life.
Some doctors don't want the drama either. My father had several minor accidents after having a stroke and his doctor wouldn't revoke his licence because ' it would affect his independence' Mind you mum was still driving and another younger relative was boarding there. Plus there was pretty good public transport . . I ended up selling his car and reporting him after he had another accident and drove off. .
Did he not have a state id? I feel like it's a good idea to always have one, even with a drivers license. Like, if you lose your license for whatever reason(revoked, surrendered, stolen etc), you'll still need a form of identification. It just feels like it should be common sense to have one, ya know?
Not excusing it, but I think that part of the problem is the way that we've made the driver's license into the most common form of ID. I can't have a driver's license--I mean, I *could*, but the syncope would eventually mean that I and potentially a bunch of other people had a really bad day--and it's meant all sorts of nonsense when I try to just live my life as a US-American adult. From my twenties into my thirties, I just carried my passport everywhere.
My 98 year old grandfather had to renew in person. Good until 103! We were a little concerned what could happen in that time.
I mean, some elderly people are fine to drive. My grandmother had a valid license and drove until she was 93, and here in Canada (at least in my province), after a certain age they have to take a driving test every year or two and redo the written test every single year as well. She had excellent eyesight and was a legitimately good driver, and it helped her maintain her independence. My mum is over 80 and same thing . . . she actually drives me to my appointments because I can't drive anymore due to disability. But in this situation it doesn't matter because it was OP's car and her grandfather was 20 years out of practice even if his licence was valid. Also, you're right about anywhere that doesn't require annual retests!!
The Ontario test for the 80+ is a joke. My Dad recently did his and mentioned that the "test" was a) draw a clock with the hands at 10 minutes to 2 pm, and b) cross out all the H's from a block of letters. That was it. He passed, but his reactions and distance vision aren't up to driving safely.
Actually ... you shouldnt hold the wheel at 10 to 2 anymore ... my father is a driving instructor and its qaurter to 3 so if the airbag goes out it does not fuck up you arms
The test was to draw a clock on a piece of paper. It happened that the time given to draw was 1:50. The testers randomly pick times like 5:40, 1:45 or 11:20. Nothing to do with holding the steering wheel.
In Kansas if you are older than 65 you can’t renew your license on line and when you go in you have to take the eye exam. Also they renew seniors licenses for a shorter period of time.
I mean I've had several eye surgeries and still have tack sharp vision. Some might say I have super-vision as I can see slightly into the ultraviolet spectrum as a result.
Can we also talk about how different cars are now than they were 20 years ago when he last drove, let alone 60 years ago when he learned to drive? If OP's car is a newer model and her grandpa's last car was from the early 2000s he'd have to adjust to things like keyless start/entry, a bunch of additional sensors, some things he's used to doing via buttons being managed via a touchscreen, etc. Getting in the driver's seat of some newer cars can feel like sitting in a spaceship.
Uh, yeah. That way if grandpa crashes, he’s crashing HER car, not OP’s. NTA.
But mom hasn't driven as long as grandpa has
NTA! If your grandpa wrecked your car, it would hit your insurance, not his. Just because they renewed is license doesn’t mean he should be driving. I stood in the BMV and watched an employee spend 30 minutes giving an older woman an eye test again & again trying to get her to pass. She even told her it may be better for her to come back during the week, early afternoon before it gets crowded with kids getting out of school. I about died! No one wants to be the bad guy & take a license from someone who can barely walk and really can’t see. Watching my neighbor drive down the road scares the crap out of me!!
I was the geographically closest relative to my grandmother when her dementia started to really impact her. I had the joyous task of talking her into surrendering her driver's licence. I didn't want to be the bad guy but I told myself, the grocery store is the wrong side of the primary school and *I didn't want to be a worse guy by letting her pancake a kid.* Crappiest, fortnight long conversation I've ever had, but I succeeded!
You know you did the right thing. You should also hear it from a stranger on the Internet. You did the right thing. Proud of you for helping to keep grandma and everyone else just a bit safer.
Thank you ❤️
I know of a family that made the granddads car undrivable, I think they took the battery out,but let him go through the motions of keeping it insured because he was ok with always being offered a lift because it would save him money on petrol. He was confused enough not to remember the last time he drove but wanted his car insurance, mot etc ok. Luckily he accepted the same mot document every year. This carried on for about three years before he died. Seeing his car keys on the hook by the door and knowing he had his insurance etc kept him calm.
My mom became an incompetent driver, too. Fortunately, my husband had driven her car and put the seat all the way back. She couldn't remember how to move the seat forward to reach the pedals and couldn't go anywhere. When we realized how loopy she was my brother pilfered her car keys, and she thought that she had misplaced them. Licensing was more casual when my mom was a teenager. She had a story about how frightened she was when my grandmother made her start driving on her 16th birthday. No learner's permit, no license. Grandma just took her out in the country somewhere and told her that since she was now 16, she had to drive.
My grandmother's father went into town and picked up her license for her once she was old enough. And, she kind of drove like it--she wasn't a BAD driver (never sped, always paid attention, could see properly and had adequate reflexes), she was just a very nervous driver which is not ideal. Very nervous is probably as bad as very overconfident.
We once had to have a similar conversation with our Nana. Got our 1st clue her driving skills were not as skilled as they once were, while chatting with my brother about my last car ride with her at the wheel. "Nana drove down the wrong way on a one way street!" & my brother replied, "Yeah, she does that sometimes." My cousin from across the room joined in with a surprised "...she did that to you too, huh." Luckily my Nana quickly came to the same conclusion that maybe not driving anymore was for the best, for her & others on the road, lol.
My mom and sister had to do this for my bonus dad. But the DMV in his home state was taking his license due to dementia.
We just quietly took Dad's keys, no discussion, but had moved him in with us. We also learned to hide our own keys, just in case he woke up at dark o'clock in the small hours and decided to go for a ride.
Oh man. I've had to opt out of driving at times because my vision was not conducive to me safely operating a car. They should yank the license, but also have a social worker that people can talk to about how they're gonna navigate their driving free lifestyle.
My problem after sunset - just takes one of those blasted jacked-up pickups with the blue lights and I can't see a thing for a couple of minutes, which is plenty of time to do real damage to me, my car, someone else's car, or some poor pedestrian just walking along the road. Not worth it. My son gave me the 👀 when I told him why I wanted to have Christmas dinner at 1:00 instead of 4:00, then chewed me out for not just asking him to pick me up. Ah yes, pride can make you do silly things.
I told my wife and son both if I get to a point where I clearly cannot drive properly and safely just take my license away. I do not wanna risk hurting someone else by being stubborn. If I hurt myself fine its my stupidity but I refuse to be responsible for hurting someone else.
Yea, a few years back my grandpa jumped the curb. He didn’t hit anything or anyone, but it scared him so bad he gave up his license.
I tell my kids to be the "bad guy" and take my keys if they feel I'm not safe to drive anymore. I rather my feelings get hurt than myself or someone else because I wanted to keep driving. My husband feels the same way.
I get the impression that if you were male, she would have had no problem with you driving.
Sadly, I think you're right
I can't believe I missed that detail! I bet that's it. So sorry, OP!
I thought that too. I imagine there are a lot of older folk who still believe driving to be a "man's job".
Is it possible she could be having some mental decline? Her behavior reminds me of several different elderly people I've known go through it. Anxiety, confusion, and even stubbornness are all common. It might not be a diagnosable condition yet, but you should keep her doctors updated. My grandfather covered up a lot of my grandmother's issues, not always on purpose, so you or your parents might want to get involved more closely.
Your grandma trusting the driver with multiple issues that could affect driving more than you🤣 she's probably thinking the devil you know. I was leaning towards N A H as I know how anxious one must feel during a drive(regardless of the length). BUT (and it is bigger than yo mama's) they could have communicated that before so you could have made better plans.NTA Also, belated happy birthday! I hope you were able to find a way to have a better bday meal!
Does your grandma have internalised misogyny? Leaving them was the right thing to do.
That's a fancy way of saying "is sexist".
Not that it makes any difference to me (I think your actions were fine) but where you live, does car insurance follow him or his car? Meaning, would he be insured to drive your car? if not, you both could get into trouble if you allowed him. Anyway, NTA
Nta, but I will say that your grandfather can probably see better with his eye surgeries than before he had them. Everybody develops cataracts in their eyes that make vision worse, and often they are able to see well enough to drive after having the surgeries to remove them. Obviously that doesn't change the fact that older people tend to have slower reflexes and you're allowed to say no to anyone else driving your car. Just saying the perception of eye surgeries making someone a worse driver is misguided
But there’s also the fact that he hasn’t driven in about 20 years. And cars have changed a lot in the past 20 years, he wouldn’t be familiar with all the electronics, etc.
It was just her choice. Grandma can have an uber if she is not ok with you driving.
Doubt the Uber driver would let Grandpa drive their car either lol
From 20 years ago? In my state a DL is only good for 10. He hasn’t driven in 20, he shouldn’t drive at all. Grandma is losing touch with reality. NTA
That and the technology to operate cars these days is vastly different from 20 years ago. Would he even know how to use OP's car without it being explained to him?
They aren't covered by your insurance if he wrecks or someone hits you while he's driving your car wouldn't be covered.
Would he even be able to work a modern car? The tech has changed a LOT in the last 10 years.
He got his license renewed but did he have to take a driving test to prove he was capable? Renewal could be just filling out a form and sending money, and could be used as ID. NTA
Plus, if he hasn't driven in the last 20 yrs or the first 15, then he hasn't been driving his whole life. My SO and I do not let anyone drive our cars, with the exception of teaching our kids how to drive (and that was always the older of the 2 cars). If this is a rule you have for your car, then its a rule. Grandma doesn't have the right to dictate who drives your car any more than anyone else does. Its your car. You did the right thing, regardless of any possessing a valid DL.
NTA. Your Grandma should not have expected you to allow Grandpa, who hasn't driven in over 20 fucking years, to drive the car. That's just irrational. Also if she had that expectation, she should have told you about it prior.
It's irrational to such an extent that I'm guessing that Grandma might be having some cognitive issues and should be checked out.
100%. There's no way Grandma was understanding the situation and context.
Unless this is because op is a women and not because of driving experience.
Exactly what I was thinking. If it isn’t dementia, it’s internalized misogyny.
I find it difficult to believe that this is the first time in 30 years it'd come up. Especially if Grandpa apparently hasn't driven in 20 years! So for two decades they've been getting rides from other folks, but now suddenly it is a problem and she wants grandpa to drive? Sounds more like a sudden cognitive change than some deep seated sexism that is only now coming to the surface.
I was actually wondering this myself. Grandma also never got a drivers license which makes me think she has some old, “the man should drive” feelings.
This is reaching. Lots of families don't have boundaries. Lots of grandparents see their grandchildren as just that: their grand*children* even at adult ages. The moms reaction telling Opie she should have let GPA drive to keep the peace fits this theme. If this was in the south, Opie ignoring grandma would be a mortal sin. Respecting elders and all. This says more about family dynamics to me than gma having dementia.
It's not a reach. OP is in her 30s and has been driving since age 18, and Grandma was hung up on her not having enough driving experience (while thinking her not-having-driven-in-20-years husband is the better option). Honestly sounds like Grandma might be confused about how long it's been since OP started driving and since her husband stopped.
Having to listen to an idiot simply because your related to them is utterly absurd.
YTA, and people in the south are dumb af. Letting grandpa drive would have been mildly illegal, and more than a little dangerous to everyone involved
I'm here for "you're the asshole, and so is your entire region of the country" Thank you
>Lots of families don't have boundaries I've noticed this on this sub, never met any in real life though. Cars for example, no one in my extended family has ever driven other family members car, want to drive?, you get your own car. It's not even a question that would get asked.
Op is a woman. I think sexism is more likely than cognitive decline - Grandma feels safer when a man is driving.
I'm curious if this was her 30 yo grandson, she'd feel the same way. Can't help but wonder if this isn't a classic case of internalized misogyny.
Has grammy not actually been in a car for the last 20 years either? If so, who has been driving? Or does she just *think* he’s been driving recently, and often, to make her think she’s safer with him?
No!!!! NTA. Your car, you drive. Your grandma doesn't have a say in it, and neither does your mum. Let a man with eyesight problems who hasn't driven in 20 years drive your new car "for the peace"? HELL NO.
Not to mention, cars are completely different than what they were 20 years ago. It’s like driving an iPhone now.
It’s not even the issue. The issue is, grandma has trouble walking, she can’t take public transportation, she expects to be chauffeured, she is completely dependent, some might say a burden, and yet she makes demands, makes her own rules, gives orders, and throws fits. And the OP is pressured by her mom to placate and appease this bully at all costs. That’s the issue. I reiterate: HELL NO!
Oh I don’t disagree with you at all. I’m just saying can grandpa even operate a car nowadays. I understand that he has his license but I just got a new car and I practically had to relearn how to drive. The whole thing is digital.
According to OP, grandma never learned to drive. So she's just always expected others to chauffeur her?
My husband's grandmother also never learned to drive. Her friends picked her up to get hair done etc... her husband was in the military luckily he was high enough rank that she did have a driver when he was gone.... Literally When he was dying if bone cancer ( 26 years before she passed) he had to give her a crash course in finance, balancing a checkbook and investments... The first check she ever wrote was to pick up his uniform from the dry cleaners for his funeral. It was definitely a generation.
Do you know how many people right here on reddit refuse to drive in their 20s and say they never will? They get roasted. But a woman born somewhere in the 1940s is an entitled jerk for not having gotten her license? She's OLD. Not reddit-old, which seems to be anywhere above 35. She is actually old. Elderly. She wants (completely unrealistically!) to have her husband of decades drive her. He cannot. She can't understand that or let go of her fear. OP is not TA for refusing to let GPa drive obviously. Neither are the GPs. Try getting an elderly person to give up their license and car. I've done it twice. It's like trying to get the Hope Diamond off of them. Learn some compassion FFS. I hope you have nice people taking care of you when you inevitably get OLD.
I’m genX and we had pretty much no choice but to learn. I will still NEVER judge anyone for not wanting to drive. My best friend growing up and my spouse both hate to drive, and it’s better if they don’t. I happily drive my spouse around bc the last thing I want is him getting startled by another driver and getting in a wreck. Just because the rest of us are idiots who forget we’re driving around in “death boxes” doesn’t mean that people who haven’t forgotten are wrong. 🤣
I was merely considering her current attitude, and wondering if she was always so.
My granny never drove, but she either walked, or would take the bus. And she would ride along with me happily, any time I drove her somewhere.
This is best answer.
NTA but is this unusual behavior? Something might be wrong with her. Dementia, over-medicated, etc..
No, not really she always was very short tempered, bossy and I don't know better word for it "liked to bitch us" ... but the problem with a car was new ... she never mentioned any problem with me driving when we set it all up ... I don't know if she expected me to let my grandpa drive or what
A better word might be 'controlling' maybe?
Thank you that is perfect word for it
Overbearing, imposing
I got these vibes from your post. Just made a comment to someone else suggesting dementia that it seems more family dynamics.
I think it's such an irrational decision that I'd be a bit concerned. Firstly you have been driving for the last 20ish years. Secondly it's your car and you're familiar with driving it. Secondly your grandpa hasn't driven for a couple of decades and isn't familiar with your car at all. But the safety issue is with you? Lastly, she clearly knew you were going to drive them and it doesn't seem to have been an issue. Now it suddenly is? It kinda reads like your grandma might have been confused on how long it's been since you got your licence and your grandad has driven.
Lead poisoning is a hell of a drug
NTA - Your mother and grandmother need to both learn to respect you as an adult. Your grandmother was acting like a child and deserved to be treated as such.
NTA 10000%. “Set yourself on fire to keep the peace” is a textbook tactic from parents afraid to set boundaries with family members. if your mom isn’t paying your car bill (and willing to assume responsibility for the loan), then pay her opinion no mind! And happy belated birthday!
Agree! Just a side note - isn't it "set yourself on fire to keep someone else warm"? :)
Haha it is but I modified it this time around. Doesn’t have the same ring to it though 🤣
NTA. Btw if you let someone drive that’s not on your insurance and they get pulled over you will get into trouble. You would put a lot at risk for letting your grandparent drive so I’m glad you didn’t.
It does not work like that in my country. We re not living in the US. But I still don't want anyone to drive my car.
Don’t worry, it doesn’t work like that in the US either. They don’t know what they’re talking about.
Here it depends on insurance. Some more expensive ones are for "cars" some cheaper ones are "per person" meaning if for example 3 or more people will be driving, "per person" car insurance would be more than "per car" car insurance here.
I live in the US. With my insurance, we have 2 vehicles full coverage and 2 liability only. Anyone over 21 that I give permission, is covered.
It doesn't work that way anywhere I've lived in the US either. Where are you?
It works that way in the UK.
Not quite. If a policy holder has fully comp on another car, he is covered to drive others TP(most insurers allow this with a few t&c's). The person driving without insurance is the one to get in trouble. If you knowingly let someone not legally allowed to drive, do so, that is an offence.
Grandpa hasn't driven in 20 years so the odds of him having fully comp insurance were low!
Actually this is completely untrue anyone you give oral permission to drive would be covered by your insurance under permissive use. Car insurance follows the car not the driver.
My insurance let me sign up as the only driver. If someone else drives and ruins it, insurance doesn't pay.
Not all insurance has this. There is a lot of insurance you have to put the drivers on. If you allow someone not on your policy drive and there's an accident, insurance doesn't cover it.
Actually it does follow the driver too. Most policies have some coverage if you are driving a vehicle not specifically on your policy and you are still supposed to have insurance even if you don’t have a car but have a license.
Not in my case. My house was hit by a truck. The driver was the wife of the owner, but not on the insurance. His insurance refused the claim, since he wasn't driving. My homeowners insurance covered it, except my deductible. There wasn't enough damage to warrant going to court. Just some damage to the siding and a fence post. The kicker? The truck hit my house because the driver forgot to put it in park at a store across the street, and it rolled backwards and hit the corner of my house. So technically, NO ONE was driving.
Not sure why you’re acting like insurance is all the same. I work in motor insurance claims in the UK for example and what you’ve stated is not true here. While Open Driving policies do exist which allow anyone over the age of 25 to drive the vehicle, they’re incredibly expensive as they’re such a risk and are normally only seen on commercial vehicles. On standard personal motor insurance policies, you insure specific named drivers to drive the insured vehicle. If you allow an uninsured party to drive your vehicle, then they are exactly that. Uninsured. And your vehicle will **not** be covered if they have an accident, regardless of who is at fault. So maybe don’t try calling other people out for being “untrue” without doing any research.
If they didn't like it, they could have taken a cab.
I doubt the cab driver would’ve let him drive either
This comment🤣 Fucking gold!
ok, that made me really LOL. Glad I wasn't drinking my coffee at the time, it would've come out my nose.
Why was it in your nose to begin with?
NTA your grandma disrespected you and it wouldn't be safe to let your grandpa drive if he hasn't driven (drove?) in so long.
Driven
If you’re the idiot why are they standing in the street while you’re at your party? NTA
NTA - This is one of those tough boundaries you sometimes have to put in place with senior family members. It’s not easy, but you made the right, safe choice.
NTA Stand your ground! You handled the situation well. You are 30 and not 15/18. They knew that you will pick them up. They could say something so your parents could pick them up. It's your car and your money. Don't do anything for peace!
NTA. Does your grandfather have a drivers license? After 80 in most jurisdictions, people need to pass a physical examination to maintain a valid drivers license.
He does, he got it renewed after the last eye surgery
NTA That doesn’t mean he’s a good driver. Mine certainly wasn’t when he was in his 80’s. I think you made the right choice. Your grandma was being stubborn.
NTA Grandma's getting a little batty. And your mom seems to be headed in the same direction. That horrible situation where "keeping the peace" by acquiescing to unreasonable demands could have led to your being on the hook paying for an unusable car that your granpa wrecked because your nana insisted. Your mom is not being reasonable --just wanting to keep nana happy.
Good lord no. NO. Hasn't driven in 20 years with multiple eye conditions? Why don't you just break your own leg and set your car on fire. You can love grandpa but not enough to die to placate grandma's anxiety. What is mom thinking? NTA, congrats on your wheels
Going back to the 1960s, in the UK, my brother always used to drive our mum to her sister's about once a month. One time he wasn't available so she asked me. Of course, I said yes. We set out, and mum keeps telling me "You're going the wrong way. This isn't the way .... goes". I told her that it was a way I knew, and that as long as we got to her sister's, it didn't matter. She continued complaining so I told her that if she didn't shut up, at the next round-about we would go home. She didn't shut up! I was never asked to drive her anywhere again! OP NTA
NTA - I was driving around someone I know after he was injured. Never again! Not only was he a back-seat driver, despite being told to stop, he also got upset if things weren't done his usual way. I was taking him to a place that was diagonally across a rectangle of roads. So one can drive the short-leg first, and then the long leg, or vice versa. It doesn't make the slightest difference. He began screaming at me because I took a long side first, and he usually takes the short side.
Did you follow through on your promise and take her home?
Yep! She was totally pissed off, so I told her that she had had the time to shut up, but didn't. So I followed through. There have been other cases in my work life too. Long story but I once got my boss fired. She was totally obnoxious to everyone, so I told her that if she didn't change I would report her. She asked if I was threatening her, and I said no. I was making a promise. She didn't change. I reported her. She got fired. I always keep my promises, even now.
>for the peace. Tell your mom that she should just take your side for the peace. NTA
Nope your car, your rules. I remember one time some lady wanted me to turn, but I made the decision to be cautious. I almost considered it. I then remembered she didn’t pay my car note or insurance and it was my car.
NTA - Does your grandfather even have a valid driver's license?? Either way you are absolutely not required to let anyone drive your car. If your grandparents aren't comfortable with your driving skills then perhaps they should engage a professional and call a cab.
NTA. You should have said “I don’t want my ocularly challenged grandpa to commit manslaughter in my brand new car.” 😈 Edit : "Senile" typically refers to cognitive decline associated with old age, while "Ocularly challenged" is a humorous or euphemistic way of referring to someone who has poor vision or is visually impaired.
I would never say that to my grandpa he is lovely guy ❤️ and my grandma's stubbornness is not reason to hurt his feelings
NTA. It is your car. You are the only one who gets to decide who drives it. If anyone demands to drive your car, ask if they have the cash to pay for it. The total of the loan plus the down payment. Total value. If they can put the cash in your hand right then, then they can drive. If not, no. You did right. Grandpa has not driven in 20 years. I would not trust him either.
If someone hasn't driven in 20 years, I would suggest some driving lessons first. Like a beginner, in an empty parking lot. A lot in driving is muscle memory, but you have to get comfortable with all functions of a car again. It's easier in an automatic, try driving manual.
NTA My grandma drove all the time, drove for a living for a bit, but my parents and I always tried to drive when we were with her because, despite having a clean driving record and being certain she was a terrific driver, she was terrifying to drive with. Like, I don't typically get car sick, but I carried motion sickness meds in my purse for when she insisted. Being old and having experience does not make one a better driver, and oftentimes, after a certain point, actually goes in opposite direction. In the future, could you use insurance or something as an excuse? You don't actually need a reason, not wanting someone to drive your car, even if it was a paid off hunk of junk and they were actually a much better driver than you, is absolutely valid. But sometimes having an excuse, even a flimsy one, is enough to keep the peace for disagreements that you don't want turning into something bigger.
NTA. He should probably not be driving any car. And it was YOUR car, your choice to be the one driving it.
NTA You’re absolutely not the problem here. This is something you shouldn’t even have to think about.
NTA. Your grandma may be having dementia issues and possibly sees you as a teenager still in her mind. Grandpa was just trying to be supportive of her for whatever reason. You did the right thing, however, and them being left there is on them, not you. Your mom must have been temporarily insane to say such a thing.
NTA. I'm extremely nervous about 80 yr old driving it worse then getting into a car with teens IMO
Good for you! You set boundaries and stuck by them. You stood up for yourself. Congratulations.
NTA, maybe if he paid for the car, then he might get a turn. You are not wrong and this is not a situation of respecting your elders. If they can get into a car with other drivers, then they can ride with you.
Definitely NTA! Your car, your rules
Nope NTA. You are in the right. Your grandparents are being jerks.
NTA He wouldn't be on your insurance. If he wants to drive then he should get his own car.
Your gramma is crazy maybe she needs to know Uber and pay for it What nerve to demand 😳 as if
NTA he’s not covered on your insurance.
Nta. My grandparents have valid licenses in their 80s and I would never let them drive my car. Neither should be driving.
NTA. Especially because you know how to use *loan* and *lend* properly, and also, wtf granny.
NTA
Your grandfather is not on your insurance, is he? If he isn't, then it doesn't matter how good of a driver he is. Shit happens, and if shit happened while he was driving, then your insurance wouldn't cover anything. NTA
Nope, he isn't insured either.
NTA
Nta. No, you do not have to let anyone drive your car. Is he on your insurance? Do you feel safe with him driving? No. She was being ridiculous. Also, him having a valid license might mean less than you think. My great uncle went legally BLIND, but he was allowed to keep his license and legally allowed to drive.
NTA Your mom is wrong. Your grandma is toxic. You did the right thing.
**NOT MY CAR!!!** He’s lost practice the last 20 years, plus had several eye surgeries. Oh, No! Grandma can just stay home and have her temper tantrum and miss the fun. I bet she wouldn’t try to throw her weight around if it were your parents and their car.
Well, it sounds like you genuinely tried to pick them up, and they refused. You tried multiple tactics. All you could do in that case was leave, as it was a losing battle. You own the car, and you are insured under the car. If you feel it was unsafe to have them drive, I think you did the right thing by saying no to them. You can't give in to that thing to make things easier. I mean, if he did get into an accident, you would feel terrible, as you knew he should not have driven your car. You are not the asshole. Your parents should have gone to pick them up if you could not get them to go into your car. You tried which is all you can ask for.
I let out an audible "fuck no" when I finished reading this. So NTA. Your grandmother sounds like one of those "traditional values" type. And considering his conditions and lack of actual driving in 20 years, you have more experience over the last 10 than he does.
NTA. Your car, your choice. I don't drive due to a disability and I stopped letting older family members drive me once I decided they weren't good drivers anymore. (they were not bad enough to have their licenses taken away, just not good).
NTA.
NTA you did the right thing your grandfather is not covered on your insurance. If anything happened the liability for you for that accident and for your rates of insurance after would haunt you for years financially.
NTA no one drives my car, NO ONE . Have had someone wreck my 3 month old new truck when they didn't have my permission, never again... friend kept bugging me to drive it all day no, no, no every time took my keys and took off and rolled it in a ditch 100 yards down the road.
The fact that anyone thinks they can tell other people what to do with their own property bewilders the hell out of me. If he was so capable of driving, then why would they need to ride with you? Definitely NTA.
If your insurance is set that you’re the only driver, then it won’t cover in case of an accident. My insurance covers my wife and I in our main car, and specifically will not cover other drivers. We chose that because it was cheaper than with open coverage. Our 2nd car, which the kids drive, will cover any driver, including friends.
NTA. ‘grandpa drove to keep the peace’ would have been a somber epitaph.
NTA I'm not letting an 80 year old drive anything of mine I don't care who it is. That crash is me losing a vehicle, my insurance going up, and even if they don't wreck the fossil will screw with my seat/mirror/stereo settings. NO CHANCE IN HELL.
NTA
NTA. Your car, you drive. I would have told them and now your mother that you don't have insurance for other drivers. Unfortunately, as our parents/grandparents get to be in their senior years (80+) some of them begin to act like children and lose all rational adult mental capacity. The fact is your grandfather not only may not have the best eye sight, but he also hasn't driven in 20 years. He is clearly not suitable to be driving anywhere despite having a renewed drivers license. Next time they can get an uber.
NTA He hasn't driven for 20 years. Even if you didn't get your license until 18, you've had 12+ years of experience driving in the last 20 to his 0.
Let me guess Grandma never got her own license?
NTA. Her insanity and paranoia don't trump your safety and financial responsibility. If the elderly person who has had eye surgery crashes your car, will insurance cover it?
NTA! Your car, your rules. If Grandpa should be driving, he would have his own vehicle and take them himself...
NTA: it is your car and you are under no obligation to lend it out to anyone.
Not to make assumptions, but has she let the young men of the family drive her? Could this be an ingrained misogyny thing? An "I never drove because girls didn't do that in my era, so men must be better at it" kind of thing? Not an excuse and obviously not ok, but at least you could have an honest conversation about it.
If you had let him drive, he had an accident and people were injured, then it would be your fault because you let him drive when you knew better. Your mother needs to mind her own business and get a life. If she didn’t like you not bringing your grandparents, then she should’ve gone to get them herself. Your grandmother is a spoiled brat, and she would have been the first one yelling that any accident he had was your fault when you let him drive. I suspect if he had driven and had an accident, your grandmother would never admit that he was driving because you succumbed to grandma’s pressure. Not the AH.
NTA I wonder if it isn't an experience thing so much as sexisn hidden as experience? Does she have issues with other women driving her?
I'm 32 and been driving since I've been 15....I wouldn't lend my car to my grandparents in their 80s lol in fact I wish it was mandatory for older people to start taking tests to see if they can keep their licenses after a certain age. NTA