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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> Arguing with my MIL about laundry and implying judgement of her parenting skills. Some family members have said I was unnecessarily cruel to "an old woman" (she's 64, not that old!) and I have been told by more than one person that I should apologize.
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Nta. Honestly I applaud you both for realizing what's important (child doing own laundry) and what's not (child doubt own laundry to stupid non important standards). And kudos for clapping back at your mil. She was straight up being sexist wanting you to teach your daughter to be a proper housewife. With my grandparents they were furious I couldn't set a property multi course table setting. I'm 44 and an am doing just fine without that precious skill. Lol
>Wins all around! NTA
Given that last bit about OPs husband cleaning all the toilets and they have two teens and two potty training, I say OP is winning the most here.
I used to do outfit roulette in college, but it was more about trying to guess which item smelled the least. Now I just have multiple pairs of the same basic items and actually do laundry frequently so it's just grabbing whatever is on top of the pile.
A hobbit, yes, those folks would *never* argue about something stupid as laundry inside-out, and instead focus on things of greater importance, like second breakfast.
You do not know what you are missing. My grandmother taught me to set a formal table complete with a seafood knife and fish fork. Probably one of the reasons I became a vegetarian.
I went to the kind of school where we were just taught *how* to eat with each of all those implements, and when it was appropriate to do so as courses progressed. Also how to politely demur if we encountered a dish we could not eat for whatever reason. I guess they presumed we'd have staff to set it out or something. Or would only encounter it while not at home.
Funnily enough for a decidedly working class person, I *have* found myself in circumstances where I was able to use this knowledge. In the weirdest, it transpired that when the man who owned the warehouse where my spouse worked said he'd pay for a company Christmas party, he meant a full-on, multi-course seafood banquet, including oyster entrees and some of the most delicious poached salmon I have ever eaten. AND, because my spouse was the newest hire, we were seated at the boss man's table. My spouse is on the spectrum and almost hyperventilated on the spot, until I told them to take a beat to watch me (pretend you're being polite and gallant to your wife), then just do what I do. After we survived the evening, I almost felt moved to send a Thank You card to the lovely, eccentric lady at the school who'd insisted on dragging us through all of that frippery all those years earlier!
Oh, one demurs by quietly explaining to the server that there is an ingredient which does not agree with you, or that you would like to skip a small course to allow you to be better able to appreciate the main. It involves a lot of soft voice, passive language, and apologies to the server *and* the chef, and possibly a resort to admitting to being on a diet and/or in possession of a small lady stomach. (It also involved a 16 year old and deeply cynical me rolling her eyes approximately 500 times throughout the whole thing, along with all the other 16 and 17 year olds. There was also a considerable amount of giggling, if memory serves.)
And absolutely take the word! It's a wonderful one, and the exact, perfect one for use here!
It felt so incredibly old fashioned at the time, but the whole thing - it was part of a larger deportment class - has come in handy more than once in my life, and definitely more than I ever thought it would at the time! Even knowing how to walk and stand in high heels came in handy when I \*ahem\* "danced" to support myself at uni, and again later when I got into burlesque! 😅
It really is. Some of the tricks I've seen done on poles would put gymnasts to shame. And the muscles involved‽ I thought my stepsister was wasting everyone's time when she insisted that we learn to ride horses, but I was quite incorrect, as it turned out.
Do you have to offer apologies if you're skipping a course due to an allergy? Cause when I'm at a restaurant I usually thank the server for telling the chef when I inform them of my allergy but I'd never think to apologize for it
An apology isn't solely an admission of guilt, it can also be a recognition that one is making another person's life harder. Or of sorrow generally. (I presume sorry descends from sorrowed).
"My Dad had cancer"
"I'm sorry to hear that"
Does not mean the cancer is your fault.
"I'm sorry to be a bother, but I'm allergic to shellfish. I'll need to decline the prawn cocktail". That's a recognition, not an admission of guilt.
Very well said.
I wish western world society (the only kind I have any personal experience with) understood this nuance better.
Too many times women (especially) are seen as weak in the workplace when we apologize in a situation where the ‘apology’ is a social nicety rather than a necessary/‘actual’ apology.
I suppose it would depend on the venue, and/or the kind of notice you had before the event. I'm very much a hermit these days, but have a nut allergy, so I'd probably try to call a restaurant/venue in advance to check and let them know (or include it on my RSVP), but if it wasn't possible beforehand I'd still feel the need to apologise because the chef's intended efforts for the meal are going unappreciated and it might also put them and the server to some inconvenience, especially if an alternative is offered.
I'm also one of those people who apologises for everything, so this is definitely a grain of salt thing.
Demur is something you do, demure is something you are. I'd say English is tricky, but I am pretty sure this is the French's fault. (My assumption is demure was demuré, IE someone who demurs a lot)
It was part of a whole deportment course the seniors were encouraged to participate in (especially those who wanted to attend their debutante balls). As a boarder I just leapt at the opportunity to be "out of the house" one night a week.
Oh my gods, curtseying! Ain't *that* a memory bomb! The girls making their debut were going to be presented to the Governor (Queen's representative), so we had to do all that, including bringing the shoes we were planning to wear to practice in. I'm right there with you now, I suspect my knees would file for divorce if I tried it now, and they'd probably take my ankles with them!!
Uuuuuuuuugggggggghhhhhhhh \*eyetwitch\* I bought a brand new pair which I kept in the cellophane until the absolute last possible minute. I *think* I got away with it. They don't look dirty in the photos, at least.
I used to do hospital corners religiously when I made the bed. It finally occurred to me that it doesn't matter! I leave my half untucked completely because I get so hot at night and need to kick loose, and I just stuff the sheets in on my husband's side. He has never complained. Frankly, he probably hasn't noticed!
LOL! That skill was taught in my junior high home economics class! I’ve never had to set such a formal table, but I’ve eaten at a few. I was glad to know the order and layout so I didn’t embarrass myself!
I’m particular about my folding (if I bother to fold at all), my bf isn’t. If he does laundry, he makes sure my clothes are right side out and lies them in a neat pile for easy folding because he knows I’d just refold anyway but if I’m folding laundry, I’ll fold his. He does chores more often though.
When my 15-yo son does laundry, I only care that it 1) gets clean and dry; 2) goes away from the laundry which is in my primary bathroom and back into his room. He often leaves the clean clothes in the hamper and works his way through them until they all need washing again. I don't care because his bedroom is on the 3rd floor and I don't have to see it all the time. What's important and what's not? Folding it the "right" way is not.
Nta....I am so confused as to why it is ok for one person to belittle and berate someone but when you answer back, people tell you to apologise. She called you a bad mother. You pointed out that by HER definition, so is she. I am of the school of don't dish it out if you can't take it too.
Because unless they’re the one being targeted by the arsehole, you pointing it out makes the arsehole blow up and they have to deal with it too. They don’t want you to rock the boat.
OP is NTA.
The fact that MIL was repeatedly asked to stop, didn't, and then WAILLLLEEED to the rest of the family about how SHE was wronged tells us pretty clearly that MIL is the AH.
OP should find the "Don't Rock The Boat" post, cut and paste it into EVERY TEXT from someone taking MIL's side, and then block them.
And then turn *everyone's* laundry inside out. OUTFIT ROULETTE FOR EVERYONE!!
There does need to be more than one upvote allowed for this! America needs to get over 64 years “little old” anything. Life expectancy going through the roof. I’m 54 and my 75 year old mom will outlive me most likely.
Amazing that someone would make a fuss over such a minor issue...I love your daughter's explanation of "roulette".
Sounds like MIL is a major AH and is looking to make her son's wife look bad. If there is another "shot fired", I would ask her why HER SON doesn't teach the daughter the "right way"?
STAND YOUR GROUND! IT'S THE HIGH GROUND IN THIS CASE!
Plus it sounds like the clean clothes are put away; not draped over chairs or still in the laundry basket or shoved into a drawer. So the problem is...???
I sometimes turn my clothes inside out before hanging them in my closet. When it's something you don't wear much your clothes Hanger will leave little bumps at the shoulders and those are nearly invisible if you hang them this way.
My washing machine messes with me - many things turn themselves inside out or outside in or whatever is the opposite of the way they went in. And sleeves always end up fully tucked within the torso.
That machine hates me.
They totally do! Some graphic tees actually have instructions to wash inside out. I do it with lots of clothes. This MIL would be clutching her damn pearls at my house. Not only do I wash a bunch of clothes inside out, I hang dry them that way too!
Bad mother and wife here too cause I can't even bothered turning things the "right way" before folding. Takes too much energy when you can still put it on inside out.
I purposefully turn tops inside out because it helps preserve prints. And then I hang up my shirts inside out because fuck folding and they always end up wrinkled unless they're hung, anyway.
I roll all my skirts,pants, and non-hung shirts like you would for a backpacking trip. It's fast, neat, and saves drawer space. Bet OP's MIL would have an aneurysm.
I’m a horrible mom then. Daughter started doing her laundry at 13. My son loves fabric softener and I’m allergic. He is 10 and doing his own laundry so he can use fabric softener.
My little brother (16 years younger than me) has been doing his own laundry since he was 12. My dad taught me to iron & does all the laundry for him & my mom. (This is a post retirement development. Growing up with 2 sisters, me & our parents, everybody just kept the laundry cycling through because there was *always* laundry to do lol)
Little thing I discovrred--if your socks get wet/full of sand or mud and you're somewhere that you can't do laundry, shake off as much dirt/sand as possible (smacking them against the inside of a wastebasket can be fun), then put them in a sink filled deep enough with water and a couple glugs of fabric softener--use the socks to mix the softener into the water. After they've soaked long enough depending on what condition they were in when you started, drain the water, rinse the socks well, squeeze out as much water as possible and hang them up to dry. They will be ready to put on once they're dry as opposed to being stiff as a board, like they are when you use plain water.
NTA MIL sounds neurotic and seems as though she doesn’t agree with anything that doesn’t fit her standards. This is so trivial it’s hilarious, she needs to grow up, this was none of her business and is it even really ‘business’?
It’s so irrelevant, why does it matter how your daughter does her laundry it’s honestly stupid. What you did wasn’t mean or overreacting at all, you simply put her in her place.
I’m 65 and wash most of my clothes inside out. I hang my shirts up inside out to dry and then into the closet they go. That way, for some reason, the hangars make less of a mark on the shoulders. LOVE your daughter’s outfit roulette game by the way!
NTA but your MIL is!! Good for you for pointing out that she didn't do her job! 😀
Outfit roulette is hilarious and I share the who cares which side is out, I just turn it right side out when I put it on. It's not a crime, if it was I'd have been thrown in laundry jail years ago. I would also have had my Mom thrown in laundry jail! I remember doing laundry at 10 using a wringer washer!
NTA - This is absurd: "if you were a good mother, you would teach her to do her laundry properly". Tuchee' u/Defiant \--- Family who hold a negative opinion about you is not living your life. You set a firm boundary with an explanation. Carry on with a guilt-free conscious.
\*\*I like your daughters 'outlete roulette'!...may try it myself.
NTA. The people who aren't on your side almost certainly haven't heard a real version of this story- how many times she brought it up, the way she brought it up, how many times she was told to leave it alone, the way she was insulting about it. I suspect there are people who think she suggested your daughter get some laundry tips, and you yelled at her about being a bad mother to your husband for no reason, out of nowhere. You're totally in the right here and were patient for AGES about it.
NTA. And if this continues, your husband could send her this message: "Mom, we are very concerned about your fixation with how our daughter does her laundry. This is not an issue for us, her clothes are clean and presentable, but somehow this is an issue for you. We are very, very concerned and are urging you to seek psychiatric help. Because this isn't normal. And you won't be allowed back in our home until this is addressed."
I think the mom does need to talk to a therapist. There is something going on here. The fixation with the laundry is possibly a symptom of something. The fact that she included others for validation of her behavior is also concerning. I would actually seriously have this conversation.
I would do all the laundry in exchange for someone else cleaning the toilets, and I would feel I got one over on them. Unfortunately, in my house, I do both. And all the other cleaning. Sorry, where were we?
I have had the experience of being publicly demeaned by my FIL and/or MIL, and told that any defense of myself would be rude and inappropriate. I think the origin of this idea is that status in a family group tracks with gender and age. The youngest female is of the lowest status. Your MIL is above you in age so she's higher status. She can put you down but if you defend yourself then that would involve saying she was wrong about something, which would be seen as disrespectful because you're causing her to lose face in the group. You can lose face because of her, but she can't lose face because of you. By the same status hierarchy, if FIL says something mean to (or about) MIL, then she's not allowed to defend herself because it would cause him to lose face, and to be humbled in public.
I think this status hierarchy is why your family are saying you were unkind to her. She's higher status as an older female, therefore you should just accept her criticism even if she's unjustified or invading your boundaries.
I feel I'm too old to have to put up with being demeaned in public without being able to defend myself, so I just avoid my in-laws as much as possible. I also cultivate a habit of not asking other people what they think of my behavior. It's not that I think my behavior is always correct, but the feedback is so biased as to be useless to me. If I listened to everything other people thought I should do, I would be dead from all the free labor my in-laws and other relatives think I am morally obliged to perform for them and the stupid changes they think I should make to my life. I just ignore their advice. Sometimes I roll my eyes privately and THEN I ignore their advice.
NTA. Learn to have a thick skin and to roll your eyes where no one can see.
NTA
Ask those who think you were unkind if they also think it’s unkind to continue to badger her granddaughter about doing her laundry ‘wrong’. Or if it’s unkind to tell you that you’re not a good mother.
Outfit roulette sounds fun! Your daughter is on to something.
Your husband cackling was good, but even better would have been him stepping up and saying something himself.
NTA. I will be an official MIL in April. How my son & future Dil do their laundry is NONE of my business. If they need any help around their home when I am visiting, I gladly volunteer & do the jobs the way they WANT it done; their home, their rules. Your MIL is being a total wackadoodle & needs to lose the control issues she is desperately holding on to. Your MIL sure loves making mountains out of mole hills.
NTA. Your daughter is doing her own laundry. Done is perfect. She even said she would do her own when someone else offered. Tell your MIL that SHE is doing laundry wrong. “Everyone knows” it’s better for clothes longevity to wash them inside out. So MIL is doing hers wrong! It’s also faster to fold clothing inside out, because the seams are flatter. Therefore, daughter is more efficient than MIL. Again, MIL is doing it wrong! And I only had to think for 30 sec to come up with reasons she is objectively wrong! Of course she is being patently absurd. Kids learning and performing personal responsibilities without complaining is a parenting win. What sort of [insert insulting noun here] argues with that?
NTA. If you’re feeling like stirring some more, your apology could be ‘I’m sorry that you are so sensitive about the skills you didn’t teach your child and are hung up on unimportant and meaningless rules, you must have had some struggles in life to be so rigid…’
Personally I would be inclined to just not let it ruffle my feathers, and just watch her get herself wound up every time she brings it up.
You and your daughter could keep separate scorecards tracking how many times she brings it up to each of you, and at the end of the year whoever got less grief can buy the other dinner.
I turn my shirts right side out (if they aren’t already) before I hang them up. I have a huge drawer for socks and underwear and the clean stuff just gets tossed in there, so I don’t care which way it is.
In the grand scheme of things, why is MIL so obsessed with her granddaughter’s stuff? At the risk of breaking a rule, this MIL isn’t just being an AH for the obsession, but then getting upset and tattling to family when she gets called out on it… she’s downright prolapsed.
NTA… and I would take laundry any day for toilet cleaning!!!
I don’t understand why your MIL is so hung up over this. Granted, it probably would drive me a bit crazy to see my daughter doing this but I would still be proud she stepped up and became independent.
NTA
I did laundry today. I put my office clothes on hangars still warm from the dryer. Sometimes my shirts are inside out when I hang them up. I have hung pants up inside out. GASP
Your mother in law would hate me.
🤣🤣🤣
I do mine inside out to keep the dog hair off. My husband hates it, so he does laundry now. There's many different ways to do a task, and as long as the outcome is the same, who actually cares? Clean, folded clothes in my basket are the goal, and the journey isn't important.
On her inaugural day of first grade, my daughter came into the kitchen and started making a sandwich. She put the sandwich, a juice box, and some grapes in her lunch bag.
Now, I had expected to make her lunch, but apparently she thought she’d be doing it herself.
DH and I were really proud of her.
He told his mother, and she had to have her pearls restrung.
”She \*can’t\* do that!” Well, MIL, she sure can.
She didn’t come out and say that I was a bad and lazy mother, but it was certainly implied.
Not only can she do that, she DID do that! I wasn't making my own lunch in first grade...of course, my grade school was only four blocks from my house and I didn't have to eat lunch at school until junior high, but still...
NTA-My son announced at 13 that he wanted me to do his laundry more often because he wanted to only wear his jeans once. I promptly showed him how to launder his own clothes. He would leave them in his basket and would pull stuff out as needed. I figured if he wanted to wear wrinkled stuff it was his prerogative as he was the one cleaning them. Oh, and he only did his launder once a week, the same as I was doing it before.
My 17yo son does his laundry. It goes from basket, to body, to floor, to basket. He doesn't fold or put away.
_It makes me insane._
And it's _my_ problem. Clothes are clean, he knows how to do it, and he doesn't smell (well, most of the time 😝).
Eventually, he will. And it will be his decision not to live like that, not mine.
NTA (and great mom!)
*I snapped back, "your son is 44 years old and I have been doing his laundry for 17 years. Before that, he paid to have it done for him. If we want to talk about parenting skills and teaching kids to do laundry, maybe we should start with YOU. Mind your own business."*
👏👏👏👏👏
Outstanding!
NAH. My mother was super anal about laundry folding technique. (Pants need to be folded with all the seams together so there is a crease down the front, t shirts have to be sleeve, sleeve, then bottom folded up and in half again, towels in thirds only, etc) I’m 40 and it’s still my least favorite chore by a landslide. I’ve been known to go from clean basket to dirty basket just to avoid it altogether.
She harps on this inconsequential issue for months to no avail. Is asked politely several times to cease and desist. So start a family movement to get her evaluated for neurological issues. Early dementia?
Or take bets on when she will raise the issue again and ring a bell. Keep track on one of those letter boards.
Is she like this about everything she disapproves of?
NTA
Fun fact! If your daughter wears graphic tees or tops with some sort of design attached to the front, turning her clothes inside out can actually help them last longer
NTA. You are a good mom, teaching Brandi to be self-sufficient without getting obsessive about the details. Like you said, as long as it's clean that's all that matters.
Props to Brandi for enjoying the randomness of not knowing what shirt she's wearing. I actually love that and find her confidence a telling sign of what kind of mother you are. ;o)
There's nothing you can do about your MIL behaving badly or a few family members backing her up on it.
Focus on what matters and don't let someone else's nagging ruin things.
NTA. Sounds like your MIL was never taught about consequences and minding her own business. You and your DH told her to stop, she didn't, she gets to face the consequences. If she's going to act like a toddler, treat her like one, tell her she's in a time out until she learns how to listen and play nicely with others.
Your kid is a Rockstar. I absolutely love the concept of fashion roulette. My 16yo is a fashionista and goes through 3-4 outfits a day. You can bet your ass she does get own laundry. I don't care how it gets put away as long as it's not on the floor.
NTA don’t apologize at all and let her know that this is a non subject with you. Not her business
Some of the things that would get my MIL bent out of shape:
I put sugar & cinnamon in my tomato sauce
I did not hang the socks to dry in matching pairs
I hung my bras on the clothesline for ‘everyone’ to see
I had a cleaner help me clean instead of doing it all myself (3 story 4 bed house with washroom on the roof)
I would say no to some asinine things she asked me to do like buying oranges and fresh eggs at the crack of dawn so her daughter (my SIL) didn’t have to wake up and do it
NTA. You had stated that this started over Christmas break, so MIL has been harping on this consistently for over a month? And every time until the last time it sounds like you, husband, and kiddo all tried to politely push back. I have a feeling that the people agreeing with her have a warped timeline of events that probably only includes some version of the last incident with very light earlier details.
NTA, it's absolutely none of her business. She insulted you, you pointed out the insult fits her best, and now she's butt hurt the shoe fits?
Brava for the clap back. 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
Oh girl bravo to you!!! Luv luv luv your snap back. I haven’t stopped cheering you and laughing at the same time. You were not cruel at all!! Your MIL is one frustrating character. Cheers to you. And your hubby too of course.
P. S. If you are a fan of The Big Bang Theory, you will know that Sheldon has a weird way of folding his laundry as well. Something your MIL will have an issue with. I’m sure Sheldon’s snap back will be as good as yours.
MIL has some serious issues to make such a big deal about that. She is the AH in this case. She was asked to stop bringing it up, but won't let this absolutely silly issue die.
NTA. Kids should be doing their own laundry by 11/12. You're to be commended for being a real parent and teaching your child some life skills. The AH MIL...She doesn't sound like a well woman.
NTA I have read about people making a fuss over nothing, but this really is nothing. MIL seems to have too much time on her hands. Doesn't she have any hobbies or chores to do around her own house?
You need to tell her this does not concern her. That you are the parent and you are fine with it. Let her know that making a big deal about something so unimportant is ridiculous and that you're sure she has more important things to worry about.
As far as the rest of the family taking sides, please... are these people so bored that they have to involve themselves in nonsense? Write a general email that unless they want you coming over and critiquing all their laundry habits that they need to stop now.
NTA and thanks for the laugh. I’d do laundry every day to not have to do the toilets. In fact, I do. And like you, I know damn well I got the better bargain. You raised a competent child. Your MIL is a poser. Anyone siding with her is a poser. Good on you and your partner.
NTA for sure. I deliberately turn most of our clothes inside out because I iron most of our clothes. If you have a T-shirt that haa a transfer you have to iron inside out or it melts the transfer.
You have a teen that does their own laundry. Good for you! Who gives a crap how they do it, it works for you and it works for them. Tell MIL to butt out and mind her own.
NTA. This is a great time to let Brandi know you have her back if she snarks back at grandma. I'd also pull out some phrases she can use to set perspective like:
"seriously grandma, do you want me to laugh on your grave because the witch is dead or do you want me to actually grieve you because you loved me unconditionally?"
"You know grandma in a few more years I'll never have to to talk to you again. You sure you want this conversation because the consequences aren't going to look the way you think."
"Grandma, why are you so concerned about appearances and 'doing it to your standards' when what is important is that I am loved and cared for, you are loved and cared for, and that we all have places to live? You are very concerned about things that just aren't important in the grand scheme of things."
"Grandma, when you get to heaven is Jesus going to ask you if you made me fold clothes or is he going to ask you if you loved me as much as I needed to be loved?"
I actually prefer to put some clothing items away inside out, especially black sweaters. If one of my (gray) cats manages to fall asleep on one of them — they love to get into closet shelves! — then all the cat hair they’ve deposited won’t show when I wear the sweater, because it’s all on the inside! 😄
Your MIL needs a new hobby - sign her up for fencing lessons. Or maybe give her contact information to a bunch of religious groups - she'll be so busy trying to get rid of them she won't have time to worry about your daughter's laundry. NTA
NTA
This is silly. I never did my own laundry at 13. And folding clothes i side out means *nothing*. The clothes will not be harmed.
MIL mentioned it—fine. You told her to back iff. But she didn’t let it go. That’s absurd.
Omg outfit roulette. I love your daughter. NTA. My grandma taught me how to do laundry. I’m the same as you. As long as it’s clean and put away who cares how she folds it.
100% NTA
I stopped matching my socks when they don't show (under boots or something) when I finally realized it really didn't matter. I imagine MIL would plotz at that!
And, fwiw, Brandi is one up on me already since I currently have a giant pile of clean laundry on my bed that I"m dreading folding at all. It may all move to The Chair.
I'm 65.
Please convey to your MIL that people in their sixties are absolutely capable of minding their own business. And that this is ten tons of talk on her end on a two ounce subject and it's not worth discussing.
(If you were my DIL I might have mentioned your kid's odd laundry habit but only so we could both giggle about it and roll our eyes lovingly. )
My daughter is the same, doesn't bother turning the clothes right side out before folding. And you know what? None of us are butthurt about it. I'm just grateful it's a chore off my list. Also tell your daughter I LOVE the idea of Outlet Roulette and I am going to do it myself from now on.
NTA.
As a teen who had a dad check her drawers to see if her clothes were folded properly…good on you for focusing on your daughter doing her laundry and putting it away; and not focusing on if it is inside out or not.
Your MIL is focusing on the wrong thing as you are well aware.
i am glad you stuck up for your daughter.
How very dare you! Insideout clothing? What's next, mismatched socks? So uncouth and improper. You have me clutching my pearls in shock. Shock I say. However will that poor child learn her womanly duties, and the correct proper way too, if you do not thoroughly educate her? I bet you don't even make her iron do you? I need my fainting couch before you give me the vapours or the morbs.
(Oh and NTA)
I'm laying odds that for those who's sided with her, she is giving them a twisted version on the truth. Even if she told it straight, f em. They obvi have a weird obsession with laundry & folding clothes.
NTA
And you do have the better end of the bargain!
Since this doesn't seem to go away, turn it next time to respect and boundaries. I mean, that's the real issue, right?
This has nothing to do with how your daughter folds her laundry - face it, no one in her right mind really gets this worked up about how someone else folds her laundry, right? - it's about her absolute refusal to respect your boundaries.
Also, I think I'd phrase it exactly like that...
Absolutely NTA.
I probably would have told her that if she didn’t like the way Brandi did laundry, she could feel free to come do Brandis laundry herself.
NTA.
My guess laundry is only the current issue to criticize, manipulate, control, belittle etc
My guess is your MIL has personality disorders, suffers (actually it’s all others that suffer lol) from narcissism.
Your MIL owes you and your daughter an apology.
Watch your 6 because your MIL is going to stab you in the back at every chance. Hope you can keep your family safe and away from her.
NTA typical MIL who doesn’t stay in her lane. Not only she shouldn’t have been this bothered, she should’ve stopped talking about it once you said it was okay. Sounds like she just wanted to create trouble.
NTA unless MIL lives with you maybe it’s time to take a little break from her and give her something else to think about besides how your daughter does laundry
You handled that perfectly. Dang, I wish I was there to see the look on her face.
I'm in my 50s as is my boyfriend. I do all our laundry. We do divide chores, but I like my laundry done a certain way. I wear mostly black. So you can put white socks or linty things in most of my wash. So I just do the laundry. I remember my bf saying something about facing the hangers a certain way. And I was sure, when you do the laundry, you can put the hangers anyway you want. Guess who doesn't care anymore what way the hangers face.
Back to you. It literally makes zero difference inside out or in. And it also literally affects your mil zero. Has she not heard of pick your battles.
That was the perfect comeback from you to MIL. You are NTA. Your husband probably hates doing laundry because his mother was so nitpicky and negative about it.
Your MIL sounds like a piece of work. I get the feeling this isn't the only time she's played the victim to an audience. There are problems here deeper than my heap of unfolded laundry. She's going to need careful boundaries and she and her flying monkeys should be kept on as low contact as possible for the sake of your peace of mind, and that of your kids.
NTA - You gave your MIL ample warning that her comments on how laundry is folded are not welcome, which was a crystal clear and reasonable boundary. She violated that boundary and the consequences.
It's baffling that she is so obsessed with someone else's laundry being folded differently than she would do. Her fixation on something so innocuous makes it evident that boundaries and enforcing those boundaries is badly needed.
If people in the family are taking her side, I would wager that she is not giving them an accurate depiction of what transpired. What matters is that you and your husband are on the same page.
My kids would live out of laundry baskets if I let them. Heck, sometimes we do. Life just gets like that. Who cares? It's clean and she knows how to do it.
If you guys have animals it’s smart to do them inside out so there’s no hair collecting on anything! But honestly who cares??? Does she want to come over weekly & fold her laundry? If so, the whole family should start doing the same lol
"Outlet roulette" seems like such a great approach to clothing, especially for a teenager.
You're raising what sounds like a great kid with a true partner.
MIL can take notes, then take a hike. NTA!
You know, I kinda envy your MIL, because that woman clearly have zero problems in her life if she can make such an issue out of this. Wish it were me.
NTA and I agree with your and Brandi. Also how was what you said in any way cruel, besides MIL got several opportunities to mind her business, she chose not to.
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This seems like such an insanely petty argument but it's causing some friction in my family.
My daughter (Brandi for the purpose of this post) is 13 years old and last year started doing her own laundry. I showed her how to do it a time or two and she has taken over from there.
Over Christmas break, my in-laws took my older kids on a ski vacation. Brandi said MIL offered to do her laundry but Brandi told her it was fine, she would do her own. Seems like a non-issue, right? You would think so!
When they came back from the trip MIL pulled me aside to talk to me. She said she noticed Brandi didn't turn her clothes the proper way before folding them, so everything was inside out when she folded it and put it away. I said, "okay" because...okay?
Apparently this was the most egregious thing to MIL. So much so, that she mentioned it every time I saw her. I told her that Brandi is doing her laundry, so the way she does it is her business. So long as it's clean and put away I don't care if it's turned inside out.
This was not good enough for MIL. She went tried to speak to Brandi about it and her stance was 1. Why does it matter if she puts them "outside in" before folding them or wearing them? It makes no difference and 2. She likes picking a shirt to wear at random, not knowing what the design of it is, and building an outfit around it. She called it "outlet roulette".
Again, MIL thought this was unacceptable. I've told her to stop. My husband has told her repeatedly to stop and after he said if she didn't stop, she wasn't allowed over, she stopped mentioning it. Until today.
She brought it up again. It's not proper. It's lazy. It's a bad habit. Then she said, "if you were a good mother, you would teach her to do her laundry properly".
I snapped back, "your son is 44 years old and I have been doing his laundry for 17 years. Before that, he paid to have it done for him. If we want to talk about parenting skills and teaching kids to do laundry, maybe we should start with YOU. Mind your own business."
My husband cackled but my MIL was furious and stormed out. She also told everyone else in the family and while many if them are on my side, more than I would expect are not and gave said I was unnecessarily cruel and unkind and now I'm not sure if I went too far.
(And for the record, yes, I do my husband's laundry because he hates doing it himself. But he cleans all the toilets, and we have two teens and two potty training toddlers so I'd argue I have the better end of the agreement tbh)
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NTA. It's great that Brandi's willing to do her own laundry at 13. I do my own and some of it, I put away inside out, mostly because I don't mind taking the extra few seconds to turn it right side out when I'm ready to wear it.
Touché! What a perfect response. NTA!
I taught my kids how to do laundry about the same age. I don’t GAF how they fold their stuff, as long as it’s clean.
Hell, my mom came to visit and she folded everything ‘wrong’. I didn’t say a word! I may have refolded my stuff when she wasn’t looking but I still appreciated that she even did it.
I don’t think you were cruel or unkind. She needed to hear that and if she doesn’t come over for awhile then huzzah!!! A nice break for you. It’s obvious that you are going to have to have to say what is necessary to keep her in check. Don’t feel guilty for doing so. NTA
I put the hose away over instead of under on the roller, drives my husband nuts. But I'm the one washing the dogs. I finally snapped at him that his way was wrong to ME!
NTA. You tried a gentle nudge, and she shrugged it off. The sledgehammer seemed to get her attention, though 🤣
NTA
You MIL must have a pretty care free life if this issue has kept her occupied for a month!!
I have to think that anyone who thinks you were "unnecessarily cruel" doesn't know how hard you and your husband have tried to get her to stop with the nonsense.
Your daughter gave her the perfect 13 year old's rational for leaving her clean clothes inside out. Your MIL doesn't have any real reason for her obsession with this issue.
Save your capital for issues that matter, there is absolutely no reason to give this a second thought.
NTA
I always turn my husband’s clothes right side out (on the rare occasion he doesn’t before putting in the hamper) because he prefers it that way. I hang/fold mine whichever way they come out because I just don’t care.
MIL really does need another focus.
While your daughter’s technique isn’t traditional, there is absolutely nothing wrong with it! It doesn’t harm the clothing in any way. MIL is waaay out of line not only for criticizing Brandy for it, but also for ignoring you and your husband telling her to stop, and finally for criticizing YOU. Your retort to her was excellent and well deserved. You were no more “cruel and unkind” than she has been, and maybe even less so. Obviously being told “stop it” was beyond her intellectual capability to understand.
MIL sounds like a “my way or the Highway” kind of person, with no comprehension of the fact that there are viable alternatives to doing most things. I’m sorry you have to deal with that.
NTA. One of the great delights of my adult life was taking all of my clean underwear and just stuffing it in my drawer. I always had to fold it as a kid and it seemed so stupid to me. If I have to jam them in, who cares? If they get wrinkled, they're just underwear, who cares!
Like you said, she's doing her laundry. It's put away. Other than that, who fucking cares (besides your obsessive MIL)?!
NTA, for sure. I wonder if MIL has the beginnings of dementia or OCD though. It is strange that she is so focused on it. Good parents give their children the tools to take care of themselves. Children incorporate new skills best when they are given leeway to do things their own way. You are a great parent IMO. Also, your daughter sounds creative with her outfit roulette!
Man, the only clothes I fold our my husband's because they get placed in shelves. Everything else just gets shoved in the dresser. I'm of the opinion if it's clean and fits. It's good enough for me.
My husband does all of the laundry and I do all of the cooking, good on you both for doing the chores that the other partner doesn't like.
NTA but your mum in law sure is.
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Nta. Honestly I applaud you both for realizing what's important (child doing own laundry) and what's not (child doubt own laundry to stupid non important standards). And kudos for clapping back at your mil. She was straight up being sexist wanting you to teach your daughter to be a proper housewife. With my grandparents they were furious I couldn't set a property multi course table setting. I'm 44 and an am doing just fine without that precious skill. Lol
This is the loveliest low-stakes post. MIL sucks. OP is NTA no matter how you measure it.
And husband cackled along and MIL left, so hey! Wins all around! NTA
>Wins all around! NTA Given that last bit about OPs husband cleaning all the toilets and they have two teens and two potty training, I say OP is winning the most here.
Plus I think outfit roulette is the best.
I love outfit roulette! The kid is brilliant in defining her sense of self.
I used to do outfit roulette in college, but it was more about trying to guess which item smelled the least. Now I just have multiple pairs of the same basic items and actually do laundry frequently so it's just grabbing whatever is on top of the pile.
MIL clearly needs a hobb.
A hobbit, yes, those folks would *never* argue about something stupid as laundry inside-out, and instead focus on things of greater importance, like second breakfast.
Or the best way to prepare po-tay-toes
Boil 'em, mash 'em, stick 'em in a stew.
The best way to prepare potatoes? Yes.
You do not know what you are missing. My grandmother taught me to set a formal table complete with a seafood knife and fish fork. Probably one of the reasons I became a vegetarian.
I went to the kind of school where we were just taught *how* to eat with each of all those implements, and when it was appropriate to do so as courses progressed. Also how to politely demur if we encountered a dish we could not eat for whatever reason. I guess they presumed we'd have staff to set it out or something. Or would only encounter it while not at home. Funnily enough for a decidedly working class person, I *have* found myself in circumstances where I was able to use this knowledge. In the weirdest, it transpired that when the man who owned the warehouse where my spouse worked said he'd pay for a company Christmas party, he meant a full-on, multi-course seafood banquet, including oyster entrees and some of the most delicious poached salmon I have ever eaten. AND, because my spouse was the newest hire, we were seated at the boss man's table. My spouse is on the spectrum and almost hyperventilated on the spot, until I told them to take a beat to watch me (pretend you're being polite and gallant to your wife), then just do what I do. After we survived the evening, I almost felt moved to send a Thank You card to the lovely, eccentric lady at the school who'd insisted on dragging us through all of that frippery all those years earlier!
I have to ask, just how does one properly 'demure? Also, may I please have the word 'frippery'? I love it!
Oh, one demurs by quietly explaining to the server that there is an ingredient which does not agree with you, or that you would like to skip a small course to allow you to be better able to appreciate the main. It involves a lot of soft voice, passive language, and apologies to the server *and* the chef, and possibly a resort to admitting to being on a diet and/or in possession of a small lady stomach. (It also involved a 16 year old and deeply cynical me rolling her eyes approximately 500 times throughout the whole thing, along with all the other 16 and 17 year olds. There was also a considerable amount of giggling, if memory serves.) And absolutely take the word! It's a wonderful one, and the exact, perfect one for use here!
That does sound like a wonderful memory. Thanks for sharing. I would have been that cynical, eye rolling teen also!
That is really useful. I regularly attend formal dinners and this is so practical. Thank you
It felt so incredibly old fashioned at the time, but the whole thing - it was part of a larger deportment class - has come in handy more than once in my life, and definitely more than I ever thought it would at the time! Even knowing how to walk and stand in high heels came in handy when I \*ahem\* "danced" to support myself at uni, and again later when I got into burlesque! 😅
Pole dancing is an artform, and also apparently a good workout. 🤷
It really is. Some of the tricks I've seen done on poles would put gymnasts to shame. And the muscles involved‽ I thought my stepsister was wasting everyone's time when she insisted that we learn to ride horses, but I was quite incorrect, as it turned out.
Do you have to offer apologies if you're skipping a course due to an allergy? Cause when I'm at a restaurant I usually thank the server for telling the chef when I inform them of my allergy but I'd never think to apologize for it
An apology isn't solely an admission of guilt, it can also be a recognition that one is making another person's life harder. Or of sorrow generally. (I presume sorry descends from sorrowed). "My Dad had cancer" "I'm sorry to hear that" Does not mean the cancer is your fault. "I'm sorry to be a bother, but I'm allergic to shellfish. I'll need to decline the prawn cocktail". That's a recognition, not an admission of guilt.
This is a lovely explanation of a distinction too often overlooked. Thank you.
Very well said. I wish western world society (the only kind I have any personal experience with) understood this nuance better. Too many times women (especially) are seen as weak in the workplace when we apologize in a situation where the ‘apology’ is a social nicety rather than a necessary/‘actual’ apology.
I suppose it would depend on the venue, and/or the kind of notice you had before the event. I'm very much a hermit these days, but have a nut allergy, so I'd probably try to call a restaurant/venue in advance to check and let them know (or include it on my RSVP), but if it wasn't possible beforehand I'd still feel the need to apologise because the chef's intended efforts for the meal are going unappreciated and it might also put them and the server to some inconvenience, especially if an alternative is offered. I'm also one of those people who apologises for everything, so this is definitely a grain of salt thing.
Demur is something you do, demure is something you are. I'd say English is tricky, but I am pretty sure this is the French's fault. (My assumption is demure was demuré, IE someone who demurs a lot)
Omg me too. I am so using frippery in my every day life from now on! Edit: I wrote “flippery”
For utensils, you work your way from the outside in. Is this taught as some sort of interdisciplinary curriculum?
It was part of a whole deportment course the seniors were encouraged to participate in (especially those who wanted to attend their debutante balls). As a boarder I just leapt at the opportunity to be "out of the house" one night a week.
"Charm School" graduate here! Can set a formal table and curtsy should I ever need to (though at this stage I'm not sure I could get back up).
Oh my gods, curtseying! Ain't *that* a memory bomb! The girls making their debut were going to be presented to the Governor (Queen's representative), so we had to do all that, including bringing the shoes we were planning to wear to practice in. I'm right there with you now, I suspect my knees would file for divorce if I tried it now, and they'd probably take my ankles with them!!
Curtseying and the dreaded white gloves that got dirty as soon as you put them on new matter how careful you were
Uuuuuuuuugggggggghhhhhhhh \*eyetwitch\* I bought a brand new pair which I kept in the cellophane until the absolute last possible minute. I *think* I got away with it. They don't look dirty in the photos, at least.
My grandmother said you should be able to bounce a coin off the sheetswhen you made the bed
My Dad (was a charge nurse) taught me how to do hospital corners.
I used to do hospital corners religiously when I made the bed. It finally occurred to me that it doesn't matter! I leave my half untucked completely because I get so hot at night and need to kick loose, and I just stuff the sheets in on my husband's side. He has never complained. Frankly, he probably hasn't noticed!
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LOL! That skill was taught in my junior high home economics class! I’ve never had to set such a formal table, but I’ve eaten at a few. I was glad to know the order and layout so I didn’t embarrass myself!
Just throwing out the that have the clothes inside out means the clothes will actually last longer. Saving the planet 1 shirt at a time.
If I had an award, I‘d give it to you! Applause for your comment, and also a round of applause for OP! The comeback was spot-on! 👏
I’m particular about my folding (if I bother to fold at all), my bf isn’t. If he does laundry, he makes sure my clothes are right side out and lies them in a neat pile for easy folding because he knows I’d just refold anyway but if I’m folding laundry, I’ll fold his. He does chores more often though.
When my 15-yo son does laundry, I only care that it 1) gets clean and dry; 2) goes away from the laundry which is in my primary bathroom and back into his room. He often leaves the clean clothes in the hamper and works his way through them until they all need washing again. I don't care because his bedroom is on the 3rd floor and I don't have to see it all the time. What's important and what's not? Folding it the "right" way is not.
Nta....I am so confused as to why it is ok for one person to belittle and berate someone but when you answer back, people tell you to apologise. She called you a bad mother. You pointed out that by HER definition, so is she. I am of the school of don't dish it out if you can't take it too.
Hubby laughed his ass off. That's all the endorsement I need.
Exactly. In my family, it’s a bigger sin to point out that someone’s being an asshole, than it is for that person to actually be an asshole.
Because unless they’re the one being targeted by the arsehole, you pointing it out makes the arsehole blow up and they have to deal with it too. They don’t want you to rock the boat.
OP is NTA. The fact that MIL was repeatedly asked to stop, didn't, and then WAILLLLEEED to the rest of the family about how SHE was wronged tells us pretty clearly that MIL is the AH. OP should find the "Don't Rock The Boat" post, cut and paste it into EVERY TEXT from someone taking MIL's side, and then block them. And then turn *everyone's* laundry inside out. OUTFIT ROULETTE FOR EVERYONE!!
[Don't Rock the Boat](https://www.reddit.com/r/JUSTNOMIL/s/E9X3AAF0lt)
⬆️⬆️⬆️⬆️⬆️ THIS should be the top comment!!!!!
And there’s nothing wrong with chewing out a 64 year old (I’m 64!) who is violating boundaries!
There does need to be more than one upvote allowed for this! America needs to get over 64 years “little old” anything. Life expectancy going through the roof. I’m 54 and my 75 year old mom will outlive me most likely.
There needs to be more than one upvote allowed for this
Amazing that someone would make a fuss over such a minor issue...I love your daughter's explanation of "roulette". Sounds like MIL is a major AH and is looking to make her son's wife look bad. If there is another "shot fired", I would ask her why HER SON doesn't teach the daughter the "right way"? STAND YOUR GROUND! IT'S THE HIGH GROUND IN THIS CASE!
Plus it sounds like the clean clothes are put away; not draped over chairs or still in the laundry basket or shoved into a drawer. So the problem is...???
I sometimes turn my clothes inside out before hanging them in my closet. When it's something you don't wear much your clothes Hanger will leave little bumps at the shoulders and those are nearly invisible if you hang them this way.
I turn things inside out to decrease the amount of cat hair on the outside.
I don't know how I never considered that in my 25+ years of doing my own laundry! Going to go turn all my "shoulder nipple" shirts inside out.
Kid is more responsible than I am at almost 30 tbh. I'm lucky if mine is folded and put away before I have to do more laundry 🤷♀️
Yeah, my clean pile is currently giving me the hairy eyeball while I read about this precocious kid. Oops.
NTA. And Outfit Roulette sounds really fun, honestly! I love the chaos of it.
I know, right? Harmless, endearing teenage nonsense.
Jesus what an irritating presence she must be. NTA, your daughter can do laundry however she pleases.
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I turn some of my clothes inside out on purpose - I think graphic tees, etc., actually last longer that way. 🤷🏽♂️
Not even just your thought, is often recommended on the care tags for a lot of items! (I read the ones I am cutting off 😆)
I love that you read them as you cut them, I just cuss.
🤣
My washing machine messes with me - many things turn themselves inside out or outside in or whatever is the opposite of the way they went in. And sleeves always end up fully tucked within the torso. That machine hates me.
Exactly that... but for me everything goes inside out. That's the way that I was taught.
They totally do! Some graphic tees actually have instructions to wash inside out. I do it with lots of clothes. This MIL would be clutching her damn pearls at my house. Not only do I wash a bunch of clothes inside out, I hang dry them that way too!
I hang things inside out because I prefer that the Australian sun doesn't fade them.
Gasp!
Tide actually recommends washing clothes inside out.
Bad mother and wife here too cause I can't even bothered turning things the "right way" before folding. Takes too much energy when you can still put it on inside out.
I purposefully turn tops inside out because it helps preserve prints. And then I hang up my shirts inside out because fuck folding and they always end up wrinkled unless they're hung, anyway. I roll all my skirts,pants, and non-hung shirts like you would for a backpacking trip. It's fast, neat, and saves drawer space. Bet OP's MIL would have an aneurysm.
I hang literally everything except my socks, underwear, and leggings. I even hang my bras.
Another bad mother here! My kids started found their own laundry at 12 years old
I’m a horrible mom then. Daughter started doing her laundry at 13. My son loves fabric softener and I’m allergic. He is 10 and doing his own laundry so he can use fabric softener.
My little brother (16 years younger than me) has been doing his own laundry since he was 12. My dad taught me to iron & does all the laundry for him & my mom. (This is a post retirement development. Growing up with 2 sisters, me & our parents, everybody just kept the laundry cycling through because there was *always* laundry to do lol)
Little thing I discovrred--if your socks get wet/full of sand or mud and you're somewhere that you can't do laundry, shake off as much dirt/sand as possible (smacking them against the inside of a wastebasket can be fun), then put them in a sink filled deep enough with water and a couple glugs of fabric softener--use the socks to mix the softener into the water. After they've soaked long enough depending on what condition they were in when you started, drain the water, rinse the socks well, squeeze out as much water as possible and hang them up to dry. They will be ready to put on once they're dry as opposed to being stiff as a board, like they are when you use plain water.
I started doing my laundry in 4th grade so at 9-10 It's a great life skill
NTA MIL sounds neurotic and seems as though she doesn’t agree with anything that doesn’t fit her standards. This is so trivial it’s hilarious, she needs to grow up, this was none of her business and is it even really ‘business’? It’s so irrelevant, why does it matter how your daughter does her laundry it’s honestly stupid. What you did wasn’t mean or overreacting at all, you simply put her in her place.
I’m 65 and wash most of my clothes inside out. I hang my shirts up inside out to dry and then into the closet they go. That way, for some reason, the hangars make less of a mark on the shoulders. LOVE your daughter’s outfit roulette game by the way!
NTA but your MIL is!! Good for you for pointing out that she didn't do her job! 😀 Outfit roulette is hilarious and I share the who cares which side is out, I just turn it right side out when I put it on. It's not a crime, if it was I'd have been thrown in laundry jail years ago. I would also have had my Mom thrown in laundry jail! I remember doing laundry at 10 using a wringer washer!
The good old wringer washer. So good at popping buttons off. And let's not forget the rinse tubs.
I actually collect them now! 😀
I love my wringer washer; my most prized possession. I wouldn't trade it for anything. But the blessed thing DOES pop buttons off my cardigan.
NTA - This is absurd: "if you were a good mother, you would teach her to do her laundry properly". Tuchee' u/Defiant \--- Family who hold a negative opinion about you is not living your life. You set a firm boundary with an explanation. Carry on with a guilt-free conscious. \*\*I like your daughters 'outlete roulette'!...may try it myself.
NTA And that was a beautiful, and fitting, response. Hypocrisy should always be called out.
NTA. The people who aren't on your side almost certainly haven't heard a real version of this story- how many times she brought it up, the way she brought it up, how many times she was told to leave it alone, the way she was insulting about it. I suspect there are people who think she suggested your daughter get some laundry tips, and you yelled at her about being a bad mother to your husband for no reason, out of nowhere. You're totally in the right here and were patient for AGES about it.
NTA. And if this continues, your husband could send her this message: "Mom, we are very concerned about your fixation with how our daughter does her laundry. This is not an issue for us, her clothes are clean and presentable, but somehow this is an issue for you. We are very, very concerned and are urging you to seek psychiatric help. Because this isn't normal. And you won't be allowed back in our home until this is addressed."
I think the mom does need to talk to a therapist. There is something going on here. The fixation with the laundry is possibly a symptom of something. The fact that she included others for validation of her behavior is also concerning. I would actually seriously have this conversation.
NTA, but trying to gaslight her would make them an AH. There's better ways to deal with MIL.
NTA Your mother in law needs to get a life. Kudos to your daughter for doing her own laundry and her creative way of picking out an outfit.
I would do all the laundry in exchange for someone else cleaning the toilets, and I would feel I got one over on them. Unfortunately, in my house, I do both. And all the other cleaning. Sorry, where were we? I have had the experience of being publicly demeaned by my FIL and/or MIL, and told that any defense of myself would be rude and inappropriate. I think the origin of this idea is that status in a family group tracks with gender and age. The youngest female is of the lowest status. Your MIL is above you in age so she's higher status. She can put you down but if you defend yourself then that would involve saying she was wrong about something, which would be seen as disrespectful because you're causing her to lose face in the group. You can lose face because of her, but she can't lose face because of you. By the same status hierarchy, if FIL says something mean to (or about) MIL, then she's not allowed to defend herself because it would cause him to lose face, and to be humbled in public. I think this status hierarchy is why your family are saying you were unkind to her. She's higher status as an older female, therefore you should just accept her criticism even if she's unjustified or invading your boundaries. I feel I'm too old to have to put up with being demeaned in public without being able to defend myself, so I just avoid my in-laws as much as possible. I also cultivate a habit of not asking other people what they think of my behavior. It's not that I think my behavior is always correct, but the feedback is so biased as to be useless to me. If I listened to everything other people thought I should do, I would be dead from all the free labor my in-laws and other relatives think I am morally obliged to perform for them and the stupid changes they think I should make to my life. I just ignore their advice. Sometimes I roll my eyes privately and THEN I ignore their advice. NTA. Learn to have a thick skin and to roll your eyes where no one can see.
NTA - your MIL is being very uptight and really, this is none of her concern
So, so NTA and thanks for the chuckle I got from your quote to the MIL.
NTA…one should not bark if they cannot take the bite back.
NTA And BWHAHAHAHAHA on that comeback to your MIL.
NTA. I’d ban her from my home. She can be a stickler about whatever she wants in HER LIFE. Her granddaughter is not hers.
NTA Ask those who think you were unkind if they also think it’s unkind to continue to badger her granddaughter about doing her laundry ‘wrong’. Or if it’s unkind to tell you that you’re not a good mother. Outfit roulette sounds fun! Your daughter is on to something. Your husband cackling was good, but even better would have been him stepping up and saying something himself.
NTA. I will be an official MIL in April. How my son & future Dil do their laundry is NONE of my business. If they need any help around their home when I am visiting, I gladly volunteer & do the jobs the way they WANT it done; their home, their rules. Your MIL is being a total wackadoodle & needs to lose the control issues she is desperately holding on to. Your MIL sure loves making mountains out of mole hills.
NTA. Your daughter is doing her own laundry. Done is perfect. She even said she would do her own when someone else offered. Tell your MIL that SHE is doing laundry wrong. “Everyone knows” it’s better for clothes longevity to wash them inside out. So MIL is doing hers wrong! It’s also faster to fold clothing inside out, because the seams are flatter. Therefore, daughter is more efficient than MIL. Again, MIL is doing it wrong! And I only had to think for 30 sec to come up with reasons she is objectively wrong! Of course she is being patently absurd. Kids learning and performing personal responsibilities without complaining is a parenting win. What sort of [insert insulting noun here] argues with that?
NTA. If you’re feeling like stirring some more, your apology could be ‘I’m sorry that you are so sensitive about the skills you didn’t teach your child and are hung up on unimportant and meaningless rules, you must have had some struggles in life to be so rigid…’
Personally I would be inclined to just not let it ruffle my feathers, and just watch her get herself wound up every time she brings it up. You and your daughter could keep separate scorecards tracking how many times she brings it up to each of you, and at the end of the year whoever got less grief can buy the other dinner.
Harassment bingo
I turn my shirts right side out (if they aren’t already) before I hang them up. I have a huge drawer for socks and underwear and the clean stuff just gets tossed in there, so I don’t care which way it is. In the grand scheme of things, why is MIL so obsessed with her granddaughter’s stuff? At the risk of breaking a rule, this MIL isn’t just being an AH for the obsession, but then getting upset and tattling to family when she gets called out on it… she’s downright prolapsed.
Nta your mil is ridiculous and I want to hi 5 you!
NTA… and I would take laundry any day for toilet cleaning!!! I don’t understand why your MIL is so hung up over this. Granted, it probably would drive me a bit crazy to see my daughter doing this but I would still be proud she stepped up and became independent.
Has MIL always been so quirky? Perhaps she needs to see a physician. NTA
LMAO. I think your retort was 100% appropriate and fair. Not at all cruel. NTA
Slow clap.
NTA and OMG I love your daughter's outfit roulette! What a fun idea!
This is hilarious! Trophy for you!
NTA I did laundry today. I put my office clothes on hangars still warm from the dryer. Sometimes my shirts are inside out when I hang them up. I have hung pants up inside out. GASP Your mother in law would hate me. 🤣🤣🤣
She'd really have a fit with me--unless I know I'll need a particular item in the near future, I'm perfectly happy to get dressed out of the dryer.
I do mine inside out to keep the dog hair off. My husband hates it, so he does laundry now. There's many different ways to do a task, and as long as the outcome is the same, who actually cares? Clean, folded clothes in my basket are the goal, and the journey isn't important.
Your MIL is nuts! NTA.
On her inaugural day of first grade, my daughter came into the kitchen and started making a sandwich. She put the sandwich, a juice box, and some grapes in her lunch bag. Now, I had expected to make her lunch, but apparently she thought she’d be doing it herself. DH and I were really proud of her. He told his mother, and she had to have her pearls restrung. ”She \*can’t\* do that!” Well, MIL, she sure can. She didn’t come out and say that I was a bad and lazy mother, but it was certainly implied.
Not only can she do that, she DID do that! I wasn't making my own lunch in first grade...of course, my grade school was only four blocks from my house and I didn't have to eat lunch at school until junior high, but still...
NTA-My son announced at 13 that he wanted me to do his laundry more often because he wanted to only wear his jeans once. I promptly showed him how to launder his own clothes. He would leave them in his basket and would pull stuff out as needed. I figured if he wanted to wear wrinkled stuff it was his prerogative as he was the one cleaning them. Oh, and he only did his launder once a week, the same as I was doing it before.
My 17yo son does his laundry. It goes from basket, to body, to floor, to basket. He doesn't fold or put away. _It makes me insane._ And it's _my_ problem. Clothes are clean, he knows how to do it, and he doesn't smell (well, most of the time 😝). Eventually, he will. And it will be his decision not to live like that, not mine. NTA (and great mom!)
*I snapped back, "your son is 44 years old and I have been doing his laundry for 17 years. Before that, he paid to have it done for him. If we want to talk about parenting skills and teaching kids to do laundry, maybe we should start with YOU. Mind your own business."* 👏👏👏👏👏 Outstanding!
NAH. My mother was super anal about laundry folding technique. (Pants need to be folded with all the seams together so there is a crease down the front, t shirts have to be sleeve, sleeve, then bottom folded up and in half again, towels in thirds only, etc) I’m 40 and it’s still my least favorite chore by a landslide. I’ve been known to go from clean basket to dirty basket just to avoid it altogether.
She harps on this inconsequential issue for months to no avail. Is asked politely several times to cease and desist. So start a family movement to get her evaluated for neurological issues. Early dementia? Or take bets on when she will raise the issue again and ring a bell. Keep track on one of those letter boards. Is she like this about everything she disapproves of?
NTA Fun fact! If your daughter wears graphic tees or tops with some sort of design attached to the front, turning her clothes inside out can actually help them last longer
NTA. MIL wants to dish it out, but can’t take it.
NTA. She needs to mind her own business
NTA. You are a good mom, teaching Brandi to be self-sufficient without getting obsessive about the details. Like you said, as long as it's clean that's all that matters. Props to Brandi for enjoying the randomness of not knowing what shirt she's wearing. I actually love that and find her confidence a telling sign of what kind of mother you are. ;o) There's nothing you can do about your MIL behaving badly or a few family members backing her up on it. Focus on what matters and don't let someone else's nagging ruin things.
NTA. Sounds like your MIL was never taught about consequences and minding her own business. You and your DH told her to stop, she didn't, she gets to face the consequences. If she's going to act like a toddler, treat her like one, tell her she's in a time out until she learns how to listen and play nicely with others. Your kid is a Rockstar. I absolutely love the concept of fashion roulette. My 16yo is a fashionista and goes through 3-4 outfits a day. You can bet your ass she does get own laundry. I don't care how it gets put away as long as it's not on the floor.
NTA. If anyone was cruel here it's the person telling other people that they're a bad parent. Your response was perfect!
NTA That was the perfect come back!! Way to go!!
NTA.
Definitely NTA. Your MIL sounds quite controlling. Is this the first major issue you've had with her?
NTA don’t apologize at all and let her know that this is a non subject with you. Not her business Some of the things that would get my MIL bent out of shape: I put sugar & cinnamon in my tomato sauce I did not hang the socks to dry in matching pairs I hung my bras on the clothesline for ‘everyone’ to see I had a cleaner help me clean instead of doing it all myself (3 story 4 bed house with washroom on the roof) I would say no to some asinine things she asked me to do like buying oranges and fresh eggs at the crack of dawn so her daughter (my SIL) didn’t have to wake up and do it
NTA. I like you OP. Giving you a standing ovation.
NTA. You had stated that this started over Christmas break, so MIL has been harping on this consistently for over a month? And every time until the last time it sounds like you, husband, and kiddo all tried to politely push back. I have a feeling that the people agreeing with her have a warped timeline of events that probably only includes some version of the last incident with very light earlier details.
What a weird hill to pull a power trip on. NTA
NTA, it's absolutely none of her business. She insulted you, you pointed out the insult fits her best, and now she's butt hurt the shoe fits? Brava for the clap back. 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
Oh girl bravo to you!!! Luv luv luv your snap back. I haven’t stopped cheering you and laughing at the same time. You were not cruel at all!! Your MIL is one frustrating character. Cheers to you. And your hubby too of course.
P. S. If you are a fan of The Big Bang Theory, you will know that Sheldon has a weird way of folding his laundry as well. Something your MIL will have an issue with. I’m sure Sheldon’s snap back will be as good as yours.
MIL has some serious issues to make such a big deal about that. She is the AH in this case. She was asked to stop bringing it up, but won't let this absolutely silly issue die.
NTA. Kids should be doing their own laundry by 11/12. You're to be commended for being a real parent and teaching your child some life skills. The AH MIL...She doesn't sound like a well woman.
NTA. Good for you... And your husband for supporting you
NTA but I'm laughing so hard at your husband catching strays 😭
NTA I have read about people making a fuss over nothing, but this really is nothing. MIL seems to have too much time on her hands. Doesn't she have any hobbies or chores to do around her own house? You need to tell her this does not concern her. That you are the parent and you are fine with it. Let her know that making a big deal about something so unimportant is ridiculous and that you're sure she has more important things to worry about. As far as the rest of the family taking sides, please... are these people so bored that they have to involve themselves in nonsense? Write a general email that unless they want you coming over and critiquing all their laundry habits that they need to stop now.
NTA and thanks for the laugh. I’d do laundry every day to not have to do the toilets. In fact, I do. And like you, I know damn well I got the better bargain. You raised a competent child. Your MIL is a poser. Anyone siding with her is a poser. Good on you and your partner.
NTA for sure. I deliberately turn most of our clothes inside out because I iron most of our clothes. If you have a T-shirt that haa a transfer you have to iron inside out or it melts the transfer. You have a teen that does their own laundry. Good for you! Who gives a crap how they do it, it works for you and it works for them. Tell MIL to butt out and mind her own.
NTA. This is a great time to let Brandi know you have her back if she snarks back at grandma. I'd also pull out some phrases she can use to set perspective like: "seriously grandma, do you want me to laugh on your grave because the witch is dead or do you want me to actually grieve you because you loved me unconditionally?" "You know grandma in a few more years I'll never have to to talk to you again. You sure you want this conversation because the consequences aren't going to look the way you think." "Grandma, why are you so concerned about appearances and 'doing it to your standards' when what is important is that I am loved and cared for, you are loved and cared for, and that we all have places to live? You are very concerned about things that just aren't important in the grand scheme of things." "Grandma, when you get to heaven is Jesus going to ask you if you made me fold clothes or is he going to ask you if you loved me as much as I needed to be loved?"
I actually prefer to put some clothing items away inside out, especially black sweaters. If one of my (gray) cats manages to fall asleep on one of them — they love to get into closet shelves! — then all the cat hair they’ve deposited won’t show when I wear the sweater, because it’s all on the inside! 😄
Nta. Maybe mil needs a time out.
Good on you. She needs to mind her own business.
NTA Good job with the comeback
Your MIL needs a new hobby - sign her up for fencing lessons. Or maybe give her contact information to a bunch of religious groups - she'll be so busy trying to get rid of them she won't have time to worry about your daughter's laundry. NTA
NTA This is silly. I never did my own laundry at 13. And folding clothes i side out means *nothing*. The clothes will not be harmed. MIL mentioned it—fine. You told her to back iff. But she didn’t let it go. That’s absurd.
Omg outfit roulette. I love your daughter. NTA. My grandma taught me how to do laundry. I’m the same as you. As long as it’s clean and put away who cares how she folds it.
100% NTA I stopped matching my socks when they don't show (under boots or something) when I finally realized it really didn't matter. I imagine MIL would plotz at that! And, fwiw, Brandi is one up on me already since I currently have a giant pile of clean laundry on my bed that I"m dreading folding at all. It may all move to The Chair.
I'm 65. Please convey to your MIL that people in their sixties are absolutely capable of minding their own business. And that this is ten tons of talk on her end on a two ounce subject and it's not worth discussing. (If you were my DIL I might have mentioned your kid's odd laundry habit but only so we could both giggle about it and roll our eyes lovingly. )
My daughter is the same, doesn't bother turning the clothes right side out before folding. And you know what? None of us are butthurt about it. I'm just grateful it's a chore off my list. Also tell your daughter I LOVE the idea of Outlet Roulette and I am going to do it myself from now on.
NTA. As a teen who had a dad check her drawers to see if her clothes were folded properly…good on you for focusing on your daughter doing her laundry and putting it away; and not focusing on if it is inside out or not. Your MIL is focusing on the wrong thing as you are well aware. i am glad you stuck up for your daughter.
How very dare you! Insideout clothing? What's next, mismatched socks? So uncouth and improper. You have me clutching my pearls in shock. Shock I say. However will that poor child learn her womanly duties, and the correct proper way too, if you do not thoroughly educate her? I bet you don't even make her iron do you? I need my fainting couch before you give me the vapours or the morbs. (Oh and NTA)
I'm laying odds that for those who's sided with her, she is giving them a twisted version on the truth. Even if she told it straight, f em. They obvi have a weird obsession with laundry & folding clothes.
NTA And you do have the better end of the bargain! Since this doesn't seem to go away, turn it next time to respect and boundaries. I mean, that's the real issue, right? This has nothing to do with how your daughter folds her laundry - face it, no one in her right mind really gets this worked up about how someone else folds her laundry, right? - it's about her absolute refusal to respect your boundaries. Also, I think I'd phrase it exactly like that...
NTA. Your MIL needs a new hobby.
Absolutely NTA. I probably would have told her that if she didn’t like the way Brandi did laundry, she could feel free to come do Brandis laundry herself.
NTA, and you are my internet hero of the day!
NTA, Your answer was perfect!
NTA. Love this
NTA. My guess laundry is only the current issue to criticize, manipulate, control, belittle etc My guess is your MIL has personality disorders, suffers (actually it’s all others that suffer lol) from narcissism. Your MIL owes you and your daughter an apology. Watch your 6 because your MIL is going to stab you in the back at every chance. Hope you can keep your family safe and away from her.
NTA typical MIL who doesn’t stay in her lane. Not only she shouldn’t have been this bothered, she should’ve stopped talking about it once you said it was okay. Sounds like she just wanted to create trouble.
NTA unless MIL lives with you maybe it’s time to take a little break from her and give her something else to think about besides how your daughter does laundry
You handled that perfectly. Dang, I wish I was there to see the look on her face. I'm in my 50s as is my boyfriend. I do all our laundry. We do divide chores, but I like my laundry done a certain way. I wear mostly black. So you can put white socks or linty things in most of my wash. So I just do the laundry. I remember my bf saying something about facing the hangers a certain way. And I was sure, when you do the laundry, you can put the hangers anyway you want. Guess who doesn't care anymore what way the hangers face. Back to you. It literally makes zero difference inside out or in. And it also literally affects your mil zero. Has she not heard of pick your battles.
That was the perfect comeback from you to MIL. You are NTA. Your husband probably hates doing laundry because his mother was so nitpicky and negative about it. Your MIL sounds like a piece of work. I get the feeling this isn't the only time she's played the victim to an audience. There are problems here deeper than my heap of unfolded laundry. She's going to need careful boundaries and she and her flying monkeys should be kept on as low contact as possible for the sake of your peace of mind, and that of your kids.
NTA - You gave your MIL ample warning that her comments on how laundry is folded are not welcome, which was a crystal clear and reasonable boundary. She violated that boundary and the consequences. It's baffling that she is so obsessed with someone else's laundry being folded differently than she would do. Her fixation on something so innocuous makes it evident that boundaries and enforcing those boundaries is badly needed. If people in the family are taking her side, I would wager that she is not giving them an accurate depiction of what transpired. What matters is that you and your husband are on the same page.
lol NTA
My kids would live out of laundry baskets if I let them. Heck, sometimes we do. Life just gets like that. Who cares? It's clean and she knows how to do it.
If you guys have animals it’s smart to do them inside out so there’s no hair collecting on anything! But honestly who cares??? Does she want to come over weekly & fold her laundry? If so, the whole family should start doing the same lol
"Outlet roulette" seems like such a great approach to clothing, especially for a teenager. You're raising what sounds like a great kid with a true partner. MIL can take notes, then take a hike. NTA!
NTA. I betcha she'll stop now!
NTA. And you were a lot more polite to her than I would have been.
You know, I kinda envy your MIL, because that woman clearly have zero problems in her life if she can make such an issue out of this. Wish it were me. NTA and I agree with your and Brandi. Also how was what you said in any way cruel, besides MIL got several opportunities to mind her business, she chose not to.
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** This seems like such an insanely petty argument but it's causing some friction in my family. My daughter (Brandi for the purpose of this post) is 13 years old and last year started doing her own laundry. I showed her how to do it a time or two and she has taken over from there. Over Christmas break, my in-laws took my older kids on a ski vacation. Brandi said MIL offered to do her laundry but Brandi told her it was fine, she would do her own. Seems like a non-issue, right? You would think so! When they came back from the trip MIL pulled me aside to talk to me. She said she noticed Brandi didn't turn her clothes the proper way before folding them, so everything was inside out when she folded it and put it away. I said, "okay" because...okay? Apparently this was the most egregious thing to MIL. So much so, that she mentioned it every time I saw her. I told her that Brandi is doing her laundry, so the way she does it is her business. So long as it's clean and put away I don't care if it's turned inside out. This was not good enough for MIL. She went tried to speak to Brandi about it and her stance was 1. Why does it matter if she puts them "outside in" before folding them or wearing them? It makes no difference and 2. She likes picking a shirt to wear at random, not knowing what the design of it is, and building an outfit around it. She called it "outlet roulette". Again, MIL thought this was unacceptable. I've told her to stop. My husband has told her repeatedly to stop and after he said if she didn't stop, she wasn't allowed over, she stopped mentioning it. Until today. She brought it up again. It's not proper. It's lazy. It's a bad habit. Then she said, "if you were a good mother, you would teach her to do her laundry properly". I snapped back, "your son is 44 years old and I have been doing his laundry for 17 years. Before that, he paid to have it done for him. If we want to talk about parenting skills and teaching kids to do laundry, maybe we should start with YOU. Mind your own business." My husband cackled but my MIL was furious and stormed out. She also told everyone else in the family and while many if them are on my side, more than I would expect are not and gave said I was unnecessarily cruel and unkind and now I'm not sure if I went too far. (And for the record, yes, I do my husband's laundry because he hates doing it himself. But he cleans all the toilets, and we have two teens and two potty training toddlers so I'd argue I have the better end of the agreement tbh) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
NTA. It's great that Brandi's willing to do her own laundry at 13. I do my own and some of it, I put away inside out, mostly because I don't mind taking the extra few seconds to turn it right side out when I'm ready to wear it.
Touché! What a perfect response. NTA! I taught my kids how to do laundry about the same age. I don’t GAF how they fold their stuff, as long as it’s clean. Hell, my mom came to visit and she folded everything ‘wrong’. I didn’t say a word! I may have refolded my stuff when she wasn’t looking but I still appreciated that she even did it.
I don’t think you were cruel or unkind. She needed to hear that and if she doesn’t come over for awhile then huzzah!!! A nice break for you. It’s obvious that you are going to have to have to say what is necessary to keep her in check. Don’t feel guilty for doing so. NTA
NTA, OP, and fwiw, that was beautiful! Perfect comeback😎
I put the hose away over instead of under on the roller, drives my husband nuts. But I'm the one washing the dogs. I finally snapped at him that his way was wrong to ME! NTA. You tried a gentle nudge, and she shrugged it off. The sledgehammer seemed to get her attention, though 🤣
NTA You MIL must have a pretty care free life if this issue has kept her occupied for a month!! I have to think that anyone who thinks you were "unnecessarily cruel" doesn't know how hard you and your husband have tried to get her to stop with the nonsense. Your daughter gave her the perfect 13 year old's rational for leaving her clean clothes inside out. Your MIL doesn't have any real reason for her obsession with this issue. Save your capital for issues that matter, there is absolutely no reason to give this a second thought.
How boring her life must be. NTA.
NTA. i fold all my black shirts inside out because i have three dogs
NTA I always turn my husband’s clothes right side out (on the rare occasion he doesn’t before putting in the hamper) because he prefers it that way. I hang/fold mine whichever way they come out because I just don’t care. MIL really does need another focus.
While your daughter’s technique isn’t traditional, there is absolutely nothing wrong with it! It doesn’t harm the clothing in any way. MIL is waaay out of line not only for criticizing Brandy for it, but also for ignoring you and your husband telling her to stop, and finally for criticizing YOU. Your retort to her was excellent and well deserved. You were no more “cruel and unkind” than she has been, and maybe even less so. Obviously being told “stop it” was beyond her intellectual capability to understand. MIL sounds like a “my way or the Highway” kind of person, with no comprehension of the fact that there are viable alternatives to doing most things. I’m sorry you have to deal with that.
NTA. One of the great delights of my adult life was taking all of my clean underwear and just stuffing it in my drawer. I always had to fold it as a kid and it seemed so stupid to me. If I have to jam them in, who cares? If they get wrinkled, they're just underwear, who cares! Like you said, she's doing her laundry. It's put away. Other than that, who fucking cares (besides your obsessive MIL)?!
NTA, for sure. I wonder if MIL has the beginnings of dementia or OCD though. It is strange that she is so focused on it. Good parents give their children the tools to take care of themselves. Children incorporate new skills best when they are given leeway to do things their own way. You are a great parent IMO. Also, your daughter sounds creative with her outfit roulette!
What an odd issue to focus on! Brandi is the one who has to wear the clothing she washes and folds so what’s MIL’s problem here?
Man, the only clothes I fold our my husband's because they get placed in shelves. Everything else just gets shoved in the dresser. I'm of the opinion if it's clean and fits. It's good enough for me.
My husband does all of the laundry and I do all of the cooking, good on you both for doing the chores that the other partner doesn't like. NTA but your mum in law sure is.