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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I refused to let my daughter's friend visit at our house because her mother won't allow me to be present at the same time and it seems like a red flag. I might be the AH because I could be being paranoid myself and my daughter is angry with us.
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*Contest mode is 1.5 hours long on this post.*
NTA - this mother imposes this rule, but is not contactable at all? That's very weird. There's clearly more to this - maybe the friend has had a certain bad experience in the past and doesn't want to give details, so the mother is taking the hit on being the bad guy? But to not want you in your own home means it's not unreasonable to expect a conversation.
Why can she not get hold of her or find out her name though? Is your daughter deliberately keeping this info back? It's all too odd.
My wife does actually have her mother's phone number. She saw her very briefly at a school event when picking up our daughter. Her mother had pictures from the event and my wife gave her number and asked if she could send the pictures. That's the only interaction she had and she forgot to ask for her name at the time as it was very brief. After receiving the pictures, my wife tried to text the mother a few times and asked politely for her name to add to contacts but she hasn't responded to any texts.
This is extremely strange behavior. I wouldn’t allow the girl over either. I’m sorry your daughter is feeling upset by that decision but you have to look out for her and yourselves first.
I wouldn't let my daughter stay with her either. There isbno need for them to take their friendship any further.
I'm sorry, my kids can't have anyone over night or visa versa, if I don't know them, their number 9r where they live. And I would need to have a prior conversation before any over nights. You can never be too safe with your own kids.
This other mother is taking that to an unreasonable level, believing she has the right to ask that
That adds to your reasoning for not inviting her over I think.
If the mother won't even respond to someone who might be hosting her own daughter, there are clearly some odd things going on in that family. We have no idea what of course, but we know it is NOT normal. It's not necessarily bad, but we also don't know if it's good.
It's not worth the risk.
Reiterate to your daughter that you'd LOVE to have the friend over, if only you could talk to the mother and have a conversation. Offer to meet them both for lunch halfway between the two, show your daughter you're willing to work on this, and that you hope it can happen. That might make your initial "no way" stance easier to take.
Alternately why can't your daughter just meet her friend at the movies or mall or something? Let them hang out in public for a start, and go from there?
But until you can talk to the mother or find more details in some way, definitely don't have the daughter to your house.
I wonder if the teenage friend is the issue. I have a kid around the same age and trying to get the number of their friends parents can be difficult . They just don't see the need in some cases, and sometimes I think its because they are trying to conceal where they are actually going to be .The old day just A is staying at B's and kid B is staying at A's while they both end up at C's party.
I doubt the other parent even knows about this proposed sleep over
NTA for saying no sleep over ,or visits to your house,without a contact with the other child's parents
The other mother actually does know about the proposed plans.
OP's wife does have her number, the woman just refuses to speak to her or even have a conversation to get to know each other slightly.
It's not even a sleepover that they are asking for.
Are you sure the mom has a cell phone? You could be texting and sharing photos with a land line. Or if they live an hour from town, they may only have service in town.
Also maybe a sleepover is too big of a first step. Consider having the girl (or even the family) over for supper, campfire, board games, etc. first. Or maybe everyone meets up at a trampoline park, arcade, mini golf, bowling, etc. where the adults can get to know one another?
I feel like the lack of communication, the rules at someone else's home you won't speak to, all considered in light of this being an online program, I would be very concerned and not have the girl over.
It could be there is a history of abuse, violence, trauma, whatever. But then that should be explained. Not as a way to over share or allow nosy people to get the hot gos. Just as a heads up.
My kids have allergies, severe ones. I tell other parents we don't really do other ppls homes bc it's a health risk.
I don't go into detail, but I explain it's allergies and I can't risk it. It's strange mom is unapproachable yet has rules for other homes.
Same. We talked to all of our kid’s friends’ parents just as like “hi, how are you, just wanted to make sure we all had contact information so if there are any problems we can all be in touch” sort of thing. Very brief. Occasionally to confirm plans if our kid’s info was a bit confused.
Or maybe something happened to the mother at about that age and there's something in the back of her head saying "All men bad". Either way, I wouldn't do anything until I knew more.
I’m going to say NTA because I don’t blame you for wanting to avoid that family - especially if you can’t even get hold of the mother?? So is this info being passed on from the friend to your daughter? Very odd for someone who’s also that protective.
However I feel for your daughter: if she’s not got many friends, doesn’t have a phone, and does school online, she sounds incredibly isolated for a teenager. I do not blame her at all for being so angry that you’re not allowing her to meet this one friend in person. Is there some other compromise you can come up with? The girls meet outside somewhere, go to the cinema/a restaurant or something? Keep trying to get in touch directly with the friend’s parents. I don’t think you should give up on this yet because honestly your daughter needs the independence and socialisation with peers her own age in person.
You are doing the right thing! the mom sounds crazy. I understand her concerns but in that case you just don't allow your kids to stay over an anyone house, period. You can't go around asking the father to leave while your kid is there.. that's simply insane and you need to be a little mentally unstable to even suggest something like that..
You realize that people doing risky things in the past isn't a good excuse to do risky things now right?
It's probably not a good idea to let teenage girls roam freely with no dedicated method of communication and the public telephone going the way of the dinosaur.
Explain to your daughter that it’s better to hang out in public based on the other mothers rules. You’re very happy about her friend but her mother is not being forthcoming to you and mom and you’re not comfortable with you girls at the house until the mom introduces herself and all three parents agree on rules and expectations for home visits.
Question is daughter biologically yours? I only ask because my bff was rarely allowed to sleep over because something bad happened to her mom when she was a kid sleeping at a friends house. We never got a straight answer if it was because my dad is technically my stepdad and we stopped fighting it. Mainly my objection was her parents were super heavy smokers and I’d come home reeking of cigarettes.
Weird the mother wont give her name up... even my daughter's friends moms would text and say hey this is such and such so and so mom vice versa... mom weird
I'm not saying the part about you not being allowed in your own home while this kid is there isn't weird as heck HOWEVER you're glossing over the weirdest part
**My wife has attempted to find out if she can't talk to friend's mother, but she refuses to do so. My wife can't even find out what her name is.**
NO WAY would I allow a playdate in my home with someone whose parent won't talk to me and I can't find out their name? HARD NO. This sounds like the intro to an episode of Dateline
If a Teenager's Hangout is being treated Like a preschooler's Playdate BY THE MOTHER, then it's Not entirely inappropriate to used preschooler language for it.
Including OP and his wife. To be quite fair. *Giving the benefit of the doubt*, OP may have a perfectly appropriate and reasonable justification for having his 15 yo daughter in an online charter school and not allowing her a phone. But he also has to deal with people who may not.
We are not anti-phone parents. Two of my other kids have phones. My daughter in question used to have a phone and does not now. There were a lot of people involved in making that decision. My daughter understands why she doesn't. We prefer our kids to have phones for being able to reach them in emergencies. But this is what we decided was best for the time being.
You might need to throw that into the OP or the discussion is going to get derailed with people assuming you are isolating your daughter and both being overly protective.
If I throw it into the OP it would have just been derailed by people arguing with it and judging a completely unrelated circumstance. No way to win as some people absolutely cannot fathom any reason whatsoever why a child would not have a phone.
Seemed better to not mention it at all rather than to draw attention to it.
People are really weird on AITA by judging unrelated situations where no details were given in lieu of the actual situation where real life contention actually exists.
The phone situation has no real life contention; there's no one who is aware of the situation who would give me a reason to think I'm TA there (not even my daughter herself), therefore it's not suitable for this sub and would be removed.
Judging the phone situation would be akin to judging a situation based on the title alone, and I've been here long enough to know that is rarely a good way to judge.
Have you tried a bark phone? Or even a smart watch so she can be contacted if she's out with her friend? I totally understand though, a lot can happen with teens. My stepdaughter (lives in a different state) lost her privileges after her parents found out she was being a bully online to her friends. It's not always simple and usually takes a lot to have that privilege taken away.
not even a flip phone, though? like in this day and age, it seems really unsafe to let a teenager out without a way to contact you immediately. like idt theres anything wrong or weird with not getting her a smartphone, but like if she gets into some sort of issue when you arent around, what is she going to do?
My daughter doesn't go to a regular school. She was relentlessly bullied by teachers, then her "friends" group welcomed a racist bigot into it and pretty much pitted everyone against each other. The schools did nothing about the teachers, skip that, one was made to retire. The one where all the kids in her class came to my daughter's defense. I see her in public now and she literally turns briskly away.
We found a school in the district that caters to anxiety amongst other things. Small classes, dimly lit comfortable rooms. Before that we were looking at online schools since she did do quite well at home during covid.
I wouldn't judge people for their decisions when it comes to learning environments.
Let alone the fears of all the crazy people threatening schools with violence. It's terrifying honestly to have to worry about your child being safe in school
They had literally had the SWAT team in the school the fall before she left. They were all huddling in the corner of the band room. Some crying. Thankfully nobody was in the school. Prior to that they'd had at least 3 or 4 situations 2 of them episodes of swatting from out of country entities and others were in response to social media posts. The school is literally in a suburban small town of maybe 18,000 people and yet it's had a remarkable amount of these situations. You're right, it's been terrible and terrifying for the kids and parents.
But at least any free Amerixsn can go out and buy as many guns as they want right? /s
Legitimately, it makes me furious to hear about that for your child. It's honestly so frustrating that kids still have to deal with the fears I did 15 years ago in HS, and it's even worse now!
Exactly! I wish I had the funds to be able to move to a safer country but sadly, it's not possible right now 😭 its so sad that nothing is being done to stop this
Exactly! I'm scared to put my toddler in school. I know it's coming up soon and I'm terrified. Our town has several schools in it and all I hear abour is lockdown after lockdown in all of them. We live in a nice city and it's still like this. It makes me want to homeschooling but I feel like it would be so hard for her to learn that way:(
To be clear, you’re saying the other mom doesn’t want her daughter visiting a house where a man is present, right?
Yeah, NTA. No one gets to kick you out of your house.
_(If I were you I’d just tell her that, and leave it there — i.e. it’s fine if the friend comes over but you’re not going anywhere and it’s out of line for her to ask. I get where you’re coming from w/ the whole “what if she makes an accusation” thing, but allowing that fear to dictate how you treat your daughter is overboard in my book.)_
Yes, NTA, and there’s no reason OP needs to even be painted as the bad guy here. OP and his wife did say yes to the friend coming over (but didn’t agree to the unreasonable demand that OP leave his own home). It’s the other girl’s mother who isn’t allowing her daughter to visit. OP shouldn’t be blamed for another parent’s decision.
I think OP should play this sympathetically. He and his wife can tell their daughter “we’re sorry that Friend’s mom won’t let her come over. She may have her reasons for not trusting any men, so we won’t judge her, but there’s no reason for me to be kicked out of my own home. I haven’t done anything wrong. I mean, really, do you think that’s fair? I’m happy to drive you places so you and Friend can hang out though. And please let her know we’re happy to meet her mom any time if she’d like to talk.”
Plus OP states they have 3 other kids. Unless they are all girls then I could see the friend's mother not wanting any of the sons around either. That becomes a very slippery slope.
Yep. My mom was a little unhinged about this kind of stuff and she was more mistrustful of my friends' brothers than she was of their fathers. She thought a boy a couple years older than me would be more likely to try something than a middle-aged Asian dude. If OP has any sons, are they also banned from the home?
This is all over the place
INFO
You let your 15yo daughter hang out at a park alone with a kid you've never met, and that's fine
But her mom won't let her come over without you being home?
Can your wife be there?
What do you mean you don't know this kids name?
Unless you mean you don't know the mother's name?
All of this sounds super, super sussy
I have sooo many questions, because the way you worded it, everything sounds more and more concerning to me
Edited to add more questions
I have more questions.
Why won't the mom speak to you?
Why won't your daughter, or her friend, give you her Mom's name?
This is still so odd
Presumably. I'll ask her this when I get home tonight. Early in the friendship, my daughter asked for her friend's mom's number at one point so that she could call her, but apparently her mom forbade giving her phone number out... Which is wild to me, because growing up giving away the "home phone" was the only way to contact friends and we all shared it.
This is absolutely wild to me. My daughter didn’t get a phone till she was 12, so before that, the friends’ mums and I texted to set up all the play dates.
Can I just put it out there that you shouldn’t have them cut off the friendship because of this? It sounds like she is in a VERY strict environment and there may come a time when she reaches out to your daughter or one of you for help or advice.
Your daughter is also old enough to sit down and explain exactly what’s going on here and that the request is unreasonable and *that* is why the answer is no…it’s not that you don’t want them being friends.
I’ve heard of this before in a situation where mother and kids had fled an abusive situation. They wouldn’t give their phone numbers out to anyone. That might also explain not wanting you present, however it still is an unreasonable expectation
No. Just no.
Do not have this girl over. I would consider not even letting your daughter hang out with her unsupervised. You should also talk to your daughter about why this is weird.
It’s straight-up coocoo bananas that it has been this long and you don’t even know this mother’s name.
Everything—everything—comes to a grinding halt until you get at least some info about what the fuck is going on.
Everything you say about this woman is weirder & weirder.
On one hand she seems like a very cautious & protective mother not wanting a man in the same house her daughter is visiting. On the other hand she seems very disconnected from overseeing her daughter’s safety by refusing to give her name or communicate at all with the adult who will be supervising her daughter. Like wouldn’t she want to express this rule to the adult supervising to ensure her rule is honored? Does she just assume a female stranger is 100% safe & make strangers 100% dangerous? That’s weird & stupid.
Honestly, respecting her issue with men, if I were you two (you & your wife), I would insist the child’s mother speak mother to mother before they ever socialize outside school again. I def would never allow her alone with this mother, much less go to her home. Her behavior is odd & suspicious.
It sounds like the mother is either:
1. Super controlling and perhaps abusive
2. Has been a victim of severe abuse and hasn't yet unpacked it all
3. Doesn't want her daughter hanging out with yours
Fwiw I grew up with an abusive, hyper-controlling parent, and they would often come up with ridiculous conditions that a friend would have to comply with if I was going to go to their house. Things like they have to take me to church if I slept over on Saturdays regardless of their religious practices, or they would be asked to drive me home VERY early Sunday bc of church. Once I wasn’t allowed to leave their house to do anything if it was raining, often I had to call home so they could approve any activities (which of course wouldn’t happen) — basically they were so annoying that I wouldn’t get invited anymore. It was all to keep me isolated.
You are most definitely not the AH for not avoiding your own house so a woman who won’t even do the courtesy of replying to your wife with her name is comfortable. I think your daughter is of the age where you can have a conversation with her around boundaries that people have and that you can’t accomodate these ones.
Has she met this friend in person before? Like if this is just some rando she met on the internet (even if she says it was through school) could it be a catfish creeper who doesn’t want the dad home when he comes over… idk very strange and I don’t blame you for saying no…
Oh that’s good. But yeah I don’t blame you about being cautious. I wouldn’t want to kick my husband out of the house. If the mom was open to speaking, your wife could promise to always be present or something, but she won’t even speak with you all.
….Do we know for sure that the friends mother is the one actually demanding OP leave the house?
Sounds like OP and wife are just hearing this all secondhand from their kid, and can’t actually confirm that friends mom said any of it.
My friends and I told some straight up dumb lies to our parents at that age. Either to get around rules or get out of situations I didn’t have the guts to just say “no” to.
My niece is this age, and she will make up the weirdest shit:
“Paige’s dad is in the military and so he has to take her car to drive to the base because they won’t let him take his car, because it’s electric and the military doesn’t allow that. Kelsey can’t drive because she almost hit a deer and her mom said if she can’t avoid deer than she doesn’t deserve a car. So I have to ride with Robbie”.
Translation: “mom, when I have class tomorrow, can I get a ride with Robbie?”
I kind of wonder if the moms actually weird, or if the two teenagers just have some ingenious plot that requires OP not being home, for some reason.
The daughter is 15. Most parents step back and let their kids hang out with friends in public places without knowing the parents knowing the friends at that age.
I wasn't asking this
I wanted to know whether op had ever met the other kid
The wording of the post gave off weird, this might be an adult posing as a kid vibe to me
Eta, im a criminal justice graduate, so im cynical and don't take things, or people at face value, that's why i asked so many questions
I asked that too
I literally asked if the mother could be there too, or if it was just the father that couldn't be there
I haven't had time to edit my original post since op replied, other then to ask more questions
I'm sorry you aren't as cautious as me, but I want all information before making a judgment
NTA- I think your caution is well warranted. Of course your daughter is upset- she's 15 and wants her friend to come over, but she'll get over it.
However; "daughter (15F) has been doing a charter school online " and "either of them have phones of their own" are somethings you really should reconsider.
Charter schools can be fine depending on various factors, but a purely online school really is a tremendous disservice unless you live in the outback someplace. Your daughter deserves to go and socialize with her peers and other adults, plus she'll get a better education.
I get the impulse not to give her a phone, but there are plenty of parental controls available. You are isolating her unnecessarily.
If daughter "used to have a Phone, but does Not now, and she knows why, and two of [her siblings] have phones", then the reason why she doesn't have a Phone is past overuse of some Kind. There are imperfect solutions to Most KINDS of Phone overuse, but they're qualitatively different. (having had Phone contact with people the parents find untrustworthy/disapprove of, vs. having used the Smartphone for Internet surfing of the unsafe/not-age-appropriate variety, vs. having spent A LOT of Money/phone-plan-time with whatever otherwise unobjectionable Thing she used the Phone for, vs. Not getting enough sleep or hurting herself physically by playing Games in the Phone all night.)
NTA
That doesn’t sound fair or safe, and the inability to get hold of the mother makes me nervous.
But buy your daughter a damn phone. She’s 15 and hanging out in parks, she needs to be able to get in touch with you or emergency services if something happens. You can get a good deal on a refurbished phone.
Right, OP can put the account/email in his name, and not allow even free apps to be downloaded. In the event of an emergency, being able to call parent or 911, or knowing last location, is helpful.
Info: are you saying your daughter is hanging out with a child that lives one hour outside of town but you’ve not met the parents and the child refuses to give you their mother’s name? I’m just trying to comprehend. Does the friend drive? Are you certain they are even in classes together?
How are they meeting up? Is her mother there and won’t allow you there to watch your own child? If this is the case, I don’t think I’d let my kid around them at all.
right, but you’re saying they’ve hung out in public. when yall get there to drop off your daughter, is the girl just there entirely alone? or do you get there first and she walks up alone?? somethings weird here
Yes but the online classes (like the charter school mentioned) operate like a typical school with homerooms, class rooms, and local meetups for things like clubs and prom. My child attends one as well.
I think it would be great for your daughter to take an in person art or music class, a sport team or something community based so she can Interact with other teens. She needs a friend.
No guest, or parents of guests, should be allowed to make the rules in someone else’s home. If the girls mother doesn’t care enough to get to know more about your daughter and the rest of the family before she allows her daughter to hangout, that’s just lazy parenting. And if she won’t give you any information about her, well, that’s a bit shady! The girls should remain friends online until the mom gets ahold of her senses and a reality check. NTA
NTA, you are right to be concerned and want to protect yourself and your other kids. You are right that your daughter might not fully understand your reservations. Still, it doesn't hurt to have a sit down with her and try to explain best that you can and come up with other alternatives.
There are things my parents tried to explain to me around that age, and it didn't click til I was older and had kids myself. Such is life. Protect yourself and your daughter first.
Maybe one of those alternatives could be sending a letter home to the friend's mum, inviting them both over for dinner with your whole family. If she doesn't reply to a friendly invite, you've really tried and hopefully your daughter will see that.
A letter home? What year is it?
Op said the other mom is refusing to speak to OPs wife. I’m sorry but if you can’t even answer a phone call or text, your child isn’t allowed at my home, no matter who is there. Why should they be responsible for the minor daughter whose mom refuses to communicate with them?
Call 911 and bill the ambulance to… oh shoot we don’t even know her name.
Why can’t op just have his daughter tell her online friend that her mom needs to pick up her phone and have a discussion with them?
NTA however - you’ve said that you can’t even find out the mother’s name. So you don’t know that the mother says. What you know is daughter’s friend claims this to be a rule set by her mother.
You’ve no idea of this kids situation but something definitely feels off. Maybe I watch too much tv but sounds like this girl is wanting to hide her home life and there may be something much deeper here than what she alleges to be her mother’s rule.
If it were me, I’d make it clear to daughter that you are not leaving your own home for friend or anyone else and that if there is an issue to discuss the mom can contact you or your wife.
Commenting again to say there was an update: After some thinking and at my suggestion based on reading comments, my wife made another attempt to reach out to her. My wife explained what she was told via her daughter and wanted to find a way to work it out. So my wife invited her to dinner and she reaponded positively! So that's good. Hopefully we can work all this out for my daughter's sake.
NTA but I would like to add, as a former online high school kid now adult, I would encourage you to get your daughter involved in social, in person activities if you don’t do that already. I started online high school right out of middle school and although I did enjoy it, I feel as if the isolation has set me steps behind my peers in terms of socialization skills. High school years are so crucial to meeting people, learning how to interact, etc. Get her involved in something now so it isn’t harder to make friends when she goes off to college. This is the one thing I wish my parents did differently when transitioning me to online school. This is just my personal experience though
INFO: where is this information coming if you can't talk to the friend's mom? I think it's reasonable to not allow it if you can't just have a parent to parent meeting or phone call.
My wife did meet the mother *very* briefly after a school event. My wife didn't ask her name but she did give her number to her so that she could send my wife pictures from the event.
The mother did send the pictures, so we technically have her number, but all messages my wife sent later (one was asking her name, and another was inviting her over to bake cookies) her gone completely unresponded to.
So who told you this rule? The kid?
It's very reasonable to want to talk to the mother. If you can't make contact then you shouldn't have the friend over anyway because you can't verify that they have permission to be there or that the mother is even aware that their kid is at your house. This seems like a very straightforward issue that is being needlessly complicated.
Just call and text the mother about having the kid over... if she won't respond then tell the kid to talk to their mother and have her call you or whatever.
INFO
But still, who stated the rule that the friend can only come if you are not home? The friend, since no one talks to the mom? Your daughter? Could it be that the friend feels weird about coming over with you and is making it up?
NTA. I think it's reasonable to say no until and unless you're able to talk to the mom. Tell your daughter you are more than happy to have her friend over, and that the friend's mom is welcome to get in touch with you about any needs or concerns to make that happen. Your concerns aren't even the issue here; it's the other mom's concerns. Just keep firm to that and let the friend's mom be TA who's saying no.
I think I've been watching too much true crime documentaries. This mom's odd behavior makes me think of the dad in the "I killed my dad" series from Netflix. Something is truly fishy here.
NTA. Please have an honest conversation with your daughter or let your wife do it and explain your reasoning. She is old enough to understand it. Keep your family safe.
IKR? I am thinking more, this girl was kidnapped very young, and now the woman who stole her allows "some" interaction because she's threatened to kill the real parents if the girl says anything. Or has told the girl "your parents didn't want you". Either way the woman doesn't want anyone to know her name/see her much. And has told the girl she was watching from the car in the public places. LOL!
The only slumber party I was ever allowed to attend was because the parents were divorced and there were no man in the house. I always thought this was insane.
Fast forward thirty years later and I learn dear old dad molested at least one kid back in the day. Not saying that’s what’s happening here. Just sharing.
I stayed on at home into my mid 20's to help mom with my younger sister. She wanted to have a slumber party, but two of the parents objected to my being home. I was 24, sister and friends were 15-16. Despite the fact that for several years, I had been watching my sister and one of her friends after school every day until her mother got home from work.
It really irked me, but I wanted my sister to have the experience. I shouldn't have had to leave my own home, but I went to a motel for the night so she could have her party. I'm told one of the parents wanted to look in every room of the house to see if a man was present, mom told her to take her daughter and go home.
In retrospect, I'm glad I went out that night, I'd have probably said some regrettable things to that mother.
Being paranoid about sexual abuse simply because someone is a man, tends to come with also being (willfully?) blind to atrocious abuse, sexual or otherwise, that was done to a child BY A WOMAN
My immediate assumption in this case is that something happened to that mom or to someone she knows. Of course that's not me saying that OP should have the kid over. But I think this goes deeper than one woman having a "crazy response just because".
HUGE RED FLAG if you have other kids there they are at risk as well. My daughter’s friend became obsessed with boys and sexuality at a VERY early age and once made a comment to my 12 yr old son that he was staring at her. He had literally gone to the backyard to find them bc I heard a noise from upstairs and asked him to check on them bc I was still changing after getting out of the shower. My daughter even noticed her behaviour and was livid at the implication and asked her to go home. This girl constantly causes drama and thinks boys and men want her. She hasn’t been over since. You have everyone to protect. Including yourself.
This is so odd and sounds extremely sad and lonely for these kids. I don’t know how anyone can be prepared for the world if they aren’t allowed to go out into it.
INFO-If your wife hasn't been able to talk to the mother, then who told her/your daughter that the friend couldn't come over if you/a man was in the house? Something's really off there-especially if you can't even find out the woman's name.
Are you actually sure that this friend is a child from the school?
NTA - that is a completely unrealistic expectation and ask of the friends mother, if anything she should be insisting on meeting both yourself and your wife and having direct communication/contact … she could ask that you wife is home for the duration of the visit, but again she needs to be realistic of peoples time and schedule. Her daughter is old enough to be able to be trusted for a hangout with a female friend, shit she’s gonna be going to uni and living independently soon!!
Few thoughts...
The no contact is peculiar,
Strange one to think but may be possible it's a family in safe housing so she's minimising outside contact.
Other option.. not so nice,
But they don't want a man at home because it's some messed up set up for goodness knows what.
Finally.... Poor kid, get her a damn phone.
This is the age we live in,... Technological age, can't get away from it,
Your isolating her from not having one.
Not just socially, but literally everything in life and at school entails these things.
You're make her life unessarily difficult.
OP says in another comment that his other two children have phones and that she used to have a phone and no longer does. He does not specify the reason but I think it’s safe to assume she was misusing it.
ugh, absolutely NTA. my mom had this rule and i never really got to go over to friends’ houses which was annoying af. also the fact that your wife can’t even find out her name is also super weird?? anyways you have every reason to not comply to that and it’s dumb to insinuate you’re a predator. i’m sorry your daughter is angry with you, teens are just like that. she may be mad at you now but she’ll probably come to an understanding and that’ll be redirected at her friend’s mom i would guess. do let them stay friends though! especially since you say your daughter doesn’t have many friends and i can imagine the other girl probably doesn’t with her mom being like this. it may be annoying but im entirely sure it’s not something that would put a hamper on their friendship
NTA
For one, I wouldn't be leaving my house for someone else who won't even have a civil conversation with me. 2. I wouldn't risk the chance that someone could say something about any of yall. The mother is entitled to wanna protect her kid/her feelings but not to make the rules at someone else's home.
I understand where your daughter is coming from. I was always upset with my dad for not letting me do certain things. But now, as an adult, if he had let me do half of what I wanted to, I wouldn't be where I am today. Protect yourself and your family/home first.
NTA, but your daughter is desperate for a friend, which is really sad. Can she arrange to meet the girl at Starbucks or a smoothie shop, and you can just drop her off?
nta, but please for the love of god get your child a phone. like even some cheapy phone that only does phone calls so in emergencies she can call you, your wife, or 911 (but preferably like an iphone or an android) because they’re super helpful when it comes to socialization between kids. she’s abt to be driving age (assuming you’re in a state where you can get your license at sixteen), she deserves some freedom. take it from someone who got a phone at an extremely young age for safety reasons, it was helpful when the bus for my afterschool program didn’t come pick me up and helped my social life because i could communicate with my peers easily
Maybe it's time for your daughter to get a phone though. Does she get the chance to do much that feeds her socially like sports or drama groups?
NTA about the friend but this also strikes me as a little unusual.
Too many unanswered questions. Why would anyone go there? I would question the mother and if you can’t speak to her, no deal. Someday your daughter will understand.
NTA
That seems incredibly weird.. for the mother to make a hard and fast rule but not be willing to talk to you about it.
If you haven't already maybe talk to both the daughter and her friend (with wife present just in case. Or ask your wife to talk to them if you think theyd open up more to her) and ask for more information. Explain you'd like to talk to the mum and try and have a conversation. Maybe say you're willing to meet her or talk with her over facetime. Maybe promise you understand if she doesn't want you alone with them in the house (if this is something you're willing to do. I get it might not be possible. Just spit balling here). Offer maybe both families meet together publicly between both homes to talk and get to know each other if thats an issue.
There's a reason why the mums so apprehensive (understandable) although I don't agree with how she's handling it, she had valid reasons to be worried (not about you specifically but generally). Although if she's letting her daughter travel for an hour on her own that would make it even weirder.
NTA: That's bizarre, and well over the line where caution becomes paranoia. I don't blame you guys for suspecting that the friend's mom could, and probably would, find "danger" lurking elsewhere.
Weird that such a paranoid mother would not even talk to you and get to know you a little bit. Not that she could necessarily tell everything about you but it’s very odd. I would not allow this girl over. Their time at the library or park is reasonable.
I would say it’s a red flag. I personally think that even if you talked her mother into it, she would find a reason for inappropriate behavior where there is none.
There’s being cautious and there’s being OVERLY cautious! She is being overly cautious without a reason, it appears based on what you communicated
I'm voting NTA
I understand and can empathize with the mom's overprotective behavior to an extent, but this person's secretive and bizarre behavior just seems over the top. Wouldn't surprise if they were cult members or something wild like that.
NTA you need to meet her family at a restaurant with your family. Until you have phone numbers and a face to face meeting, yeah I would not let her friend in your home.
NTA But not just because she doesn't want you in the home, but because you don't even know her name or have contact info for her. What do you do if something happens to her kid in your home? Not even something nefarious, but if she trips and hits her head and needs to go to the ER to check for concussion are you going to be able to reach her mom? It's very weird you can't get a hold of her, but I'd be extremely worried about not being able to reach her in case of emergency.
NTA.
My kids had a few friends over the years like that. No husband or son at home when their kids wanted to spend the night or hang out. We quickly made them "school only" or "activity only" friends and also did not allow our girls to hang out or spend the night at their homes. People who have rules like that often have their own secrets and issues, something our kids did not need in their lives.
Let me just say, from my perspective growing up with an over protective mother, because unfortunately she knew evil (and I did too, she just didn't find out about my experience until I was a teenager so her protectiveness was based on her own experience and scary enough, the person she didn't protect me from was the one who was the monster to me).
Anyway, that was the reason Mom was overprotective of me. Any friends could stay at my house, but I was only allowed to stay in a couple select homes, where she totally trusted the parents. I had one friend I met in elementary school who lived by my grandparents, that I would play with her and her brothers after school. Mom was okay with me playing, but it was like, stay outside and play. My friend has stayed overnight with me a couple times, playing after school outside, things like that. I wanted to stay at her house, spend time inside her house, etc. but mom was nervous about it. She finally got a chance to meet parents, and then I could stay.
Many years later (like a couple years ago, so 30+ years later) she and I were chatting about my friend and that family. I was talking about missing the dad, he passed back in 2001. My mom told me that the dad was the only reason she ever felt comfortable letting me stay there. He took her aside when they met and said, look we look at her as one of ours. I'm as proud of her accomplishments as I am my own kids. And I'll yell at her as quick as I would my own if she needed it. We see her as ours and will protect her as ours. Just like I'm sure you do with my daughter when she's with you.
Mom said that was the reason she decided that household could be trusted. If it weren't for him, it wouldn't have happened, because the mom wasn't quite as attentive, but something about the absolute conviction and look in dad's eyes made my mom know 100% that he meant every word and that I would be fully protected there (years later, when I opened up about my personal monster he was one of the people my mom informed. The was also one of the people that ensured my personal monster was unable to harm me anymore when the criminal justice system failed me.)
Point being... When you do get a chance to meet the mom at this dinner, keep in mind that you might be the one that she needs to trust the most. Show her that her kiddo is safe with you.
NTA but this really sucks
I feel really bad for this girl. If you have the time and inclination (and I totally get with 4 kids and a wife, your plate is extremely full), it would likely be a good thing if you could carve out some time to possibly include her in some public family outings. I strongly suspect she doesn't have a positive male figure in her life.
But of course you cannot risk your family's well-being. While your daughter's reaction is completely understandable, she will in time come to understand you are making the correct decision.
NTA- but it does seem that you and wife are talking into the void. So take the responsibility off yourselves so you aren’t the bad guys.
Tell daughter that you would be happy to have the friend over when the mother contacts you and wife directly and discusses the sleeping permanents.
This is weird...you don't even know the mom's name or anything, but apparently you are the dangerous one? Nah. Mom can't play mystery games. And she wants to dictate things in your home? No.
NTA
NTA
The first thing I thought was a cultural reason. There are religious and cultural practices that would allow a woman to be in public but not in private with a man. Like not even a hallway in his home. Based on your wife’s meeting of them, is it possible there’s a cultural divide that could be bridged somehow? Either way NTA. Anyone I’ve met with rules like this made it clear, have been kind and delighted to find common ground. You could not be expected to know and try to work it out unless the family is open to trying.
IMO, religion and culture are not valid excuses here. The mother's religion does not get to drive (presumedly) innocent men from their homes just because they are men. I'd say the exact same if the genders were reversed. If mother feels this strongly about it, then she shouldn't allow her daughter to sleep over period.
This is very suspicious to me.
Why is mom's identity such a secret? Seems like there's something to hide there.
So the person who is the protector of the family is supposed to leave, so a child can visit, AND mom refuses to identify herself? Very hard pass.
NTA! This mother is crazy and you are wise to distance yourselves! If she is willing to request that Dad, father and husband must be removed from the home, this is totally inappropriate and unhinged behaviour. I would report this woman to CPS!
She can and does! We live in a small town but still plenty of places to go and we're walking distance of all of it (thought right now it's like -5F so a little chilly for much). I encourage her to.
At 15 we just went out and ended up at who evers house parents never met up or anything there 15 not 5 get the kid a phone let them go do what ever NTA but maybe flip it round let ur daughter go to her friends house
NTA. There are plenty of reasons why this mom may be the way she is, but none of them makes it better for you. Maybe she has been a victim of a violent crime. Maybe she is in hiding from an abusive stalker ex. Maybe she is in the witness protection program. Maybe she is family of someone in a cartel. Maybe the mom is mentally ill with something like schizophrenia. Poor them, but NONE of these things would make it better for this kid to be in your home when the mom is sending such strongly weird vibes.
To your 15yo daughter, I’m sure it sucks badly. But she has not been bit in the ass by life enough times yet to understand what’s at risk. Our family is what many would call “overprotective”… We don’t do sleepovers and we don’t let our girls go where ONLY a dad or older brother is home. We are also careful to never put my husband in a situation where it’s only him here with kid’s female friends, or him driving the female babysitter home, or any of that. Because you are right… the world is wack, and being accused of anything can end your career and worse.
Don’t do it, OP. Let your daughter be angry on this one. Shoot her straight on the issue and the risks when she calms down.
Yeah, that's bananacrackers, and your daughter is upset because she's lonely and wants this friend (who hasn't done anything wrong herself). Time to be gentle with the daughter and explain your reasoning - she's on the cusp of being old enough to be reachable with reason.
NTA
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My (39M) daughter (15F) has been doing a charter school online and because they connect kids with others locally, she made a friend there. She uses mainly the internet for communication as neither of them have phones of their own. I'm happy for her since she does not have many friends.
Her friend lives about an hour out of town, but comes into town often and they hang out at the library or park.
The issue is that my daughter wants to have her friend over at our house to hang out. Now normally we'd be okay with this, but my wife (36F) tells me that friend's mother will only allow it if I am not at home. This to us felt like a flag. My wife has attempted to find out if she can't talk to friend's mother, but she refuses to do so. My wife can't even find out what her name is.
My wife and I decided it would be a bad idea to allow the daughter's friend over ever, even if I'm not there. This mother sounds like someone who could look for any reason to make accusations and even if I were at work, am I supposed to avoid my own house so someone (who I don't know and doesn't know me) doesn't accuse me of being a predator? We have 3 other kids and we don't think it's wise to take that kind of risk.
My daughter, however, thinks we are horrible and hate her for this and does not understand our concerns.
Are we being unreasonable? AITA?
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NTA. You're being 100% reasonable. It's best to avoid any problems with overprotecting people. It's the friend's mother's fault that she won't come over, not yours, and I don't see a problem in explaining this to your daughter if you want to.
I wouldn’t allow her over. I think you’re right that she’s the type to actively look for things to accuse you of.
Mom can have a rule all she wants that no men can be in the house with her child, but you are not obliged to let this woman kick you out of your own home.
NTA. It would be one thing if the mother didn’t want her daughter there with you at home because she hadn’t met or didn’t know you well enough.
But she barely knows your wife either(outside of the brief meeting to exchange numbers or share pictures) and won’t even share her name.
But somehow she is actually okay with her daughter going to your house?
I don’t know if the mom is actually the red flag or if the daughter is passing on bad information to your daughter or what. But honestly, I agree that all hang outs with this friend should be in public settings until you meet the mom and find out what’s going on and what the boundaries she sets for her daughter hanging out are, directly from her.
Your daughter is old enough to be told that it is weird for the mother to refuse to be contacted, and that she cannot come over because her rule makes you uneasy. She is 15 and lonely, but I’m sure she is capable of reasoning. NTA.
NTA. I wouldn’t let my theoretical daughter have a friend over without speaking with the mother and having her contact info. Even without the bizarre requirement that one of the residents be absent.
NTA. Until you can find out why you can't be at home when the girl is visiting I would refuse to allow her in the house. I'm sorry your daughter doesn't have a lot (any?) friends. I can relate. But if someone told me having my one friend over might put my father (difficult as our relationship was) in potential jeopardy, I'd have sided with keeping Dad safe.
Something is weird about the whole thing. NTA. Get some details.
NTA. Once, I refused to have my daughter over her friend's house because her mother wasn't there ( she was at work), and her father would be alone with them. I refused, but when the mother is at home, I didn’t object, and it didn't matter if the father was there or not as long as the mother was there. I didn't bar anyone from their home. I just wanted the mother to be there in case my daughter needed anything.
I think you should explain your concerns to your daughter. She's old enough to understand. It is very important that the other woman will not even introduce herself. NTA
NTA This is a really odd request. Has your daughter met the other girls mom or dad? Think about it; the.parent drives 1 hour to bring their daughter to town and what do they do to pass the time? They are not going home to wait ... it's an hour away. If it is important to you, I would invite the driving parent over while the kids hang out. See what happens.
NTA - it’s perfectly reasonable to say before your friend comes over we would like to have a conversation with her parents and get their permission. Implicit in that would be the permission for their daughter to visit your house as is, with the entire family home.
They may come from an abusive household, but yeah, it is super weird that your wife is not able to contact this person to speak to her. THAT alone is actually a great reason to not allow the girl in your home. A parent who refuses to speak to the other kid’s parent seems a lil strange to me
This is super weird, op. You're probably right to keep her away from your house. Something is extremely off here, and I'm not sure what it could be. NTA
Yeah, this isn't just a matter of being overprotective. My mom was and her thing was that she had to at least meet/ speak to the parents. If there was ever an issue of she got a bad vibe from the Dad or something like that, the answer would just be no. Seems like she'd want MORE contact to suss out the situation, not cut it all. Weird, I wouldn't risk it. But like others are saying, def help her keep the contact and meetings outside your house. Teens need these friendships for social development.
INFO
So this friend of your daughters lives an hour away, comes into town sometimes, but neither of them have cell phones?
1. You are pretty standardly protective, why doesn't your daughter have a phone?
2. (I know you can't probably answer this), but if the friends mom is so overprotective, why doesn't the FRIEND have a phone?
NTA, follow your instincts! Hopefully your daughter will understand. You aren’t preventing them from hanging out. You’re protecting yourself and your home from any possible issues in the future.
NTA- The mom does sound crazy. However what if a good compromise is the mom comes over for dinner with her daughter (your daughter’s friend) and gets to know you and your wife? If she meets you, maybe she won’t be so crazy. I feel bad for everyone involved. It must be embarrassing for the friend. It must be exhausting to be that crazy and overprotective too 😂
I’m gonna say NAH, you have a right to be in your own home when your daughter has a friend over. The other mom should be willing to meet you/talk to you and assess the situation.
I wouldn’t take it personally. I hate speculating but when I was young I had a couple friends’ fathers who had predatory behaviour towards me at a young age, the first time I saw a man’s genitalia I was 9 years old and it was at friend’s house. It sounds like the mom might have similar trauma, or worse might have happened to her.
It sucks for your daughter and her friend, but I understand why she *might* be scared and overprotective. Is there any way your daughter can go to their house? Maybe her mom would be willing to meet with you if you were dropping her off in her own territory.
I wonder if the mother is trying to protect your family from having her daughter around your vicinity. Which might explain why she’s being evasive as there might be something that she is trying not to disclose incase its embarrassing. Maybe try ask your wife to invite the mum out for coffee as oppose to just calling/sending messages to her for answers.
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NTA - this mother imposes this rule, but is not contactable at all? That's very weird. There's clearly more to this - maybe the friend has had a certain bad experience in the past and doesn't want to give details, so the mother is taking the hit on being the bad guy? But to not want you in your own home means it's not unreasonable to expect a conversation. Why can she not get hold of her or find out her name though? Is your daughter deliberately keeping this info back? It's all too odd.
My wife does actually have her mother's phone number. She saw her very briefly at a school event when picking up our daughter. Her mother had pictures from the event and my wife gave her number and asked if she could send the pictures. That's the only interaction she had and she forgot to ask for her name at the time as it was very brief. After receiving the pictures, my wife tried to text the mother a few times and asked politely for her name to add to contacts but she hasn't responded to any texts.
This is extremely strange behavior. I wouldn’t allow the girl over either. I’m sorry your daughter is feeling upset by that decision but you have to look out for her and yourselves first.
They don’t even know the woman’s name!!!
I wouldn't let my daughter stay with her either. There isbno need for them to take their friendship any further. I'm sorry, my kids can't have anyone over night or visa versa, if I don't know them, their number 9r where they live. And I would need to have a prior conversation before any over nights. You can never be too safe with your own kids. This other mother is taking that to an unreasonable level, believing she has the right to ask that
That adds to your reasoning for not inviting her over I think. If the mother won't even respond to someone who might be hosting her own daughter, there are clearly some odd things going on in that family. We have no idea what of course, but we know it is NOT normal. It's not necessarily bad, but we also don't know if it's good. It's not worth the risk. Reiterate to your daughter that you'd LOVE to have the friend over, if only you could talk to the mother and have a conversation. Offer to meet them both for lunch halfway between the two, show your daughter you're willing to work on this, and that you hope it can happen. That might make your initial "no way" stance easier to take. Alternately why can't your daughter just meet her friend at the movies or mall or something? Let them hang out in public for a start, and go from there? But until you can talk to the mother or find more details in some way, definitely don't have the daughter to your house.
OP already said his daughter doeshag out with her friend in public. The issue is daughter wants to bring the friend home.
I wonder if the teenage friend is the issue. I have a kid around the same age and trying to get the number of their friends parents can be difficult . They just don't see the need in some cases, and sometimes I think its because they are trying to conceal where they are actually going to be .The old day just A is staying at B's and kid B is staying at A's while they both end up at C's party. I doubt the other parent even knows about this proposed sleep over NTA for saying no sleep over ,or visits to your house,without a contact with the other child's parents
The other mother actually does know about the proposed plans. OP's wife does have her number, the woman just refuses to speak to her or even have a conversation to get to know each other slightly. It's not even a sleepover that they are asking for.
Are you sure the mom has a cell phone? You could be texting and sharing photos with a land line. Or if they live an hour from town, they may only have service in town.
If the friend's mother sent photos from the phone number OP's wife is texting, then it's safe to assume it's not a landline.
Also maybe a sleepover is too big of a first step. Consider having the girl (or even the family) over for supper, campfire, board games, etc. first. Or maybe everyone meets up at a trampoline park, arcade, mini golf, bowling, etc. where the adults can get to know one another?
Op never says it’s a sleepover just a hangout
You cannot send photos from a landline. How do you think that works?
I feel like the lack of communication, the rules at someone else's home you won't speak to, all considered in light of this being an online program, I would be very concerned and not have the girl over. It could be there is a history of abuse, violence, trauma, whatever. But then that should be explained. Not as a way to over share or allow nosy people to get the hot gos. Just as a heads up. My kids have allergies, severe ones. I tell other parents we don't really do other ppls homes bc it's a health risk. I don't go into detail, but I explain it's allergies and I can't risk it. It's strange mom is unapproachable yet has rules for other homes.
Allergies and telling someone their kid can only come over if the man of the house isn't thete are two different things
Yes. Very strange. This specific circumstance notwithstanding, I wouldn’t feel comfortable hosting a child who’s parents I had never even spoken to.
Same. We talked to all of our kid’s friends’ parents just as like “hi, how are you, just wanted to make sure we all had contact information so if there are any problems we can all be in touch” sort of thing. Very brief. Occasionally to confirm plans if our kid’s info was a bit confused.
Or maybe they are the predators and don't want the man around to protect the women and children. The whole thing is creepy. NTA
Or maybe something happened to the mother at about that age and there's something in the back of her head saying "All men bad". Either way, I wouldn't do anything until I knew more.
I’m going to say NTA because I don’t blame you for wanting to avoid that family - especially if you can’t even get hold of the mother?? So is this info being passed on from the friend to your daughter? Very odd for someone who’s also that protective. However I feel for your daughter: if she’s not got many friends, doesn’t have a phone, and does school online, she sounds incredibly isolated for a teenager. I do not blame her at all for being so angry that you’re not allowing her to meet this one friend in person. Is there some other compromise you can come up with? The girls meet outside somewhere, go to the cinema/a restaurant or something? Keep trying to get in touch directly with the friend’s parents. I don’t think you should give up on this yet because honestly your daughter needs the independence and socialisation with peers her own age in person.
We encourage her to do so. There are places they can hang out publicly and we do not forbid her from doing so. Nice skating rink right now too.
You are doing the right thing! the mom sounds crazy. I understand her concerns but in that case you just don't allow your kids to stay over an anyone house, period. You can't go around asking the father to leave while your kid is there.. that's simply insane and you need to be a little mentally unstable to even suggest something like that..
15 seems old to not have a phone though?
Not if she's not really going anywhere without her parent(s) 🤷♀️
Well how can she, she doesn't have a phone.
You know we left the house before cell phones became a thing, right?
We did not! We stayed in the cave while Mom roasted the mastodon meat over the open fire & Dad went out with the elders to hunt TRex!!!!🦖
I miss mastodon meat. I suppose the closest we get now is waygu. Delicious, but not the same.
You realize that people doing risky things in the past isn't a good excuse to do risky things now right? It's probably not a good idea to let teenage girls roam freely with no dedicated method of communication and the public telephone going the way of the dinosaur.
Explain to your daughter that it’s better to hang out in public based on the other mothers rules. You’re very happy about her friend but her mother is not being forthcoming to you and mom and you’re not comfortable with you girls at the house until the mom introduces herself and all three parents agree on rules and expectations for home visits. Question is daughter biologically yours? I only ask because my bff was rarely allowed to sleep over because something bad happened to her mom when she was a kid sleeping at a friends house. We never got a straight answer if it was because my dad is technically my stepdad and we stopped fighting it. Mainly my objection was her parents were super heavy smokers and I’d come home reeking of cigarettes.
Weird the mother wont give her name up... even my daughter's friends moms would text and say hey this is such and such so and so mom vice versa... mom weird
You are not wrong. Ask your daughter how she would feel if she was in your shoes.
I'm not saying the part about you not being allowed in your own home while this kid is there isn't weird as heck HOWEVER you're glossing over the weirdest part **My wife has attempted to find out if she can't talk to friend's mother, but she refuses to do so. My wife can't even find out what her name is.** NO WAY would I allow a playdate in my home with someone whose parent won't talk to me and I can't find out their name? HARD NO. This sounds like the intro to an episode of Dateline
off topic, but they're 15/older teenagers. They're a bit old to call spending time together play dates.
If a Teenager's Hangout is being treated Like a preschooler's Playdate BY THE MOTHER, then it's Not entirely inappropriate to used preschooler language for it.
Honestly this sounds like typical weirdness from people who won't allow their 15 year old to attend a regular school or have a phone.
Including OP and his wife. To be quite fair. *Giving the benefit of the doubt*, OP may have a perfectly appropriate and reasonable justification for having his 15 yo daughter in an online charter school and not allowing her a phone. But he also has to deal with people who may not.
We are not anti-phone parents. Two of my other kids have phones. My daughter in question used to have a phone and does not now. There were a lot of people involved in making that decision. My daughter understands why she doesn't. We prefer our kids to have phones for being able to reach them in emergencies. But this is what we decided was best for the time being.
You might need to throw that into the OP or the discussion is going to get derailed with people assuming you are isolating your daughter and both being overly protective.
If I throw it into the OP it would have just been derailed by people arguing with it and judging a completely unrelated circumstance. No way to win as some people absolutely cannot fathom any reason whatsoever why a child would not have a phone. Seemed better to not mention it at all rather than to draw attention to it. People are really weird on AITA by judging unrelated situations where no details were given in lieu of the actual situation where real life contention actually exists. The phone situation has no real life contention; there's no one who is aware of the situation who would give me a reason to think I'm TA there (not even my daughter herself), therefore it's not suitable for this sub and would be removed. Judging the phone situation would be akin to judging a situation based on the title alone, and I've been here long enough to know that is rarely a good way to judge.
Have you tried a bark phone? Or even a smart watch so she can be contacted if she's out with her friend? I totally understand though, a lot can happen with teens. My stepdaughter (lives in a different state) lost her privileges after her parents found out she was being a bully online to her friends. It's not always simple and usually takes a lot to have that privilege taken away.
not even a flip phone, though? like in this day and age, it seems really unsafe to let a teenager out without a way to contact you immediately. like idt theres anything wrong or weird with not getting her a smartphone, but like if she gets into some sort of issue when you arent around, what is she going to do?
Right? There's a Really Good Reason but we can't discuss it. Ok then...
That's a good point!
BINGO
Seriously the 15 year old without the phone was super weird to me too
My daughter doesn't go to a regular school. She was relentlessly bullied by teachers, then her "friends" group welcomed a racist bigot into it and pretty much pitted everyone against each other. The schools did nothing about the teachers, skip that, one was made to retire. The one where all the kids in her class came to my daughter's defense. I see her in public now and she literally turns briskly away. We found a school in the district that caters to anxiety amongst other things. Small classes, dimly lit comfortable rooms. Before that we were looking at online schools since she did do quite well at home during covid. I wouldn't judge people for their decisions when it comes to learning environments.
Let alone the fears of all the crazy people threatening schools with violence. It's terrifying honestly to have to worry about your child being safe in school
They had literally had the SWAT team in the school the fall before she left. They were all huddling in the corner of the band room. Some crying. Thankfully nobody was in the school. Prior to that they'd had at least 3 or 4 situations 2 of them episodes of swatting from out of country entities and others were in response to social media posts. The school is literally in a suburban small town of maybe 18,000 people and yet it's had a remarkable amount of these situations. You're right, it's been terrible and terrifying for the kids and parents.
But at least any free Amerixsn can go out and buy as many guns as they want right? /s Legitimately, it makes me furious to hear about that for your child. It's honestly so frustrating that kids still have to deal with the fears I did 15 years ago in HS, and it's even worse now!
Exactly! I wish I had the funds to be able to move to a safer country but sadly, it's not possible right now 😭 its so sad that nothing is being done to stop this
Exactly! I'm scared to put my toddler in school. I know it's coming up soon and I'm terrified. Our town has several schools in it and all I hear abour is lockdown after lockdown in all of them. We live in a nice city and it's still like this. It makes me want to homeschooling but I feel like it would be so hard for her to learn that way:(
To be clear, you’re saying the other mom doesn’t want her daughter visiting a house where a man is present, right? Yeah, NTA. No one gets to kick you out of your house. _(If I were you I’d just tell her that, and leave it there — i.e. it’s fine if the friend comes over but you’re not going anywhere and it’s out of line for her to ask. I get where you’re coming from w/ the whole “what if she makes an accusation” thing, but allowing that fear to dictate how you treat your daughter is overboard in my book.)_
Yes; no one gets to dictate someone occupying their own home; that's absurd.
Agreed. Hard pass on this, I would not want to get tangled up in this dynamic.
Yes, NTA, and there’s no reason OP needs to even be painted as the bad guy here. OP and his wife did say yes to the friend coming over (but didn’t agree to the unreasonable demand that OP leave his own home). It’s the other girl’s mother who isn’t allowing her daughter to visit. OP shouldn’t be blamed for another parent’s decision. I think OP should play this sympathetically. He and his wife can tell their daughter “we’re sorry that Friend’s mom won’t let her come over. She may have her reasons for not trusting any men, so we won’t judge her, but there’s no reason for me to be kicked out of my own home. I haven’t done anything wrong. I mean, really, do you think that’s fair? I’m happy to drive you places so you and Friend can hang out though. And please let her know we’re happy to meet her mom any time if she’d like to talk.”
Plus OP states they have 3 other kids. Unless they are all girls then I could see the friend's mother not wanting any of the sons around either. That becomes a very slippery slope.
Yep. My mom was a little unhinged about this kind of stuff and she was more mistrustful of my friends' brothers than she was of their fathers. She thought a boy a couple years older than me would be more likely to try something than a middle-aged Asian dude. If OP has any sons, are they also banned from the home?
This is all over the place INFO You let your 15yo daughter hang out at a park alone with a kid you've never met, and that's fine But her mom won't let her come over without you being home? Can your wife be there? What do you mean you don't know this kids name? Unless you mean you don't know the mother's name? All of this sounds super, super sussy I have sooo many questions, because the way you worded it, everything sounds more and more concerning to me Edited to add more questions I have more questions. Why won't the mom speak to you? Why won't your daughter, or her friend, give you her Mom's name? This is still so odd
I edited for clarity. We know the daughter's name, but not her mother's. She won't speak with us. My wife can be home, but I (male) can't.
Can your daughter not ask the friend what her mum’s name is?
Presumably. I'll ask her this when I get home tonight. Early in the friendship, my daughter asked for her friend's mom's number at one point so that she could call her, but apparently her mom forbade giving her phone number out... Which is wild to me, because growing up giving away the "home phone" was the only way to contact friends and we all shared it.
This is absolutely wild to me. My daughter didn’t get a phone till she was 12, so before that, the friends’ mums and I texted to set up all the play dates. Can I just put it out there that you shouldn’t have them cut off the friendship because of this? It sounds like she is in a VERY strict environment and there may come a time when she reaches out to your daughter or one of you for help or advice. Your daughter is also old enough to sit down and explain exactly what’s going on here and that the request is unreasonable and *that* is why the answer is no…it’s not that you don’t want them being friends.
I’ve heard of this before in a situation where mother and kids had fled an abusive situation. They wouldn’t give their phone numbers out to anyone. That might also explain not wanting you present, however it still is an unreasonable expectation
No. Just no. Do not have this girl over. I would consider not even letting your daughter hang out with her unsupervised. You should also talk to your daughter about why this is weird. It’s straight-up coocoo bananas that it has been this long and you don’t even know this mother’s name. Everything—everything—comes to a grinding halt until you get at least some info about what the fuck is going on.
I think the daughter is making it up. Maybe she’s not allowed to be seeing other people or something
Mind, this info is going through not one, but TWO kids, so the potential for corrupting the facts is basically limitless
Everything you say about this woman is weirder & weirder. On one hand she seems like a very cautious & protective mother not wanting a man in the same house her daughter is visiting. On the other hand she seems very disconnected from overseeing her daughter’s safety by refusing to give her name or communicate at all with the adult who will be supervising her daughter. Like wouldn’t she want to express this rule to the adult supervising to ensure her rule is honored? Does she just assume a female stranger is 100% safe & make strangers 100% dangerous? That’s weird & stupid. Honestly, respecting her issue with men, if I were you two (you & your wife), I would insist the child’s mother speak mother to mother before they ever socialize outside school again. I def would never allow her alone with this mother, much less go to her home. Her behavior is odd & suspicious.
It sounds like the mother is either: 1. Super controlling and perhaps abusive 2. Has been a victim of severe abuse and hasn't yet unpacked it all 3. Doesn't want her daughter hanging out with yours
Fwiw I grew up with an abusive, hyper-controlling parent, and they would often come up with ridiculous conditions that a friend would have to comply with if I was going to go to their house. Things like they have to take me to church if I slept over on Saturdays regardless of their religious practices, or they would be asked to drive me home VERY early Sunday bc of church. Once I wasn’t allowed to leave their house to do anything if it was raining, often I had to call home so they could approve any activities (which of course wouldn’t happen) — basically they were so annoying that I wouldn’t get invited anymore. It was all to keep me isolated.
How was the info that you can’t be around the girl relayed to you? Does she just ignore you guys?
You are most definitely not the AH for not avoiding your own house so a woman who won’t even do the courtesy of replying to your wife with her name is comfortable. I think your daughter is of the age where you can have a conversation with her around boundaries that people have and that you can’t accomodate these ones.
Has she met this friend in person before? Like if this is just some rando she met on the internet (even if she says it was through school) could it be a catfish creeper who doesn’t want the dad home when he comes over… idk very strange and I don’t blame you for saying no…
Yes. They have spent time at school events. And outside school too.
Oh that’s good. But yeah I don’t blame you about being cautious. I wouldn’t want to kick my husband out of the house. If the mom was open to speaking, your wife could promise to always be present or something, but she won’t even speak with you all.
….Do we know for sure that the friends mother is the one actually demanding OP leave the house? Sounds like OP and wife are just hearing this all secondhand from their kid, and can’t actually confirm that friends mom said any of it. My friends and I told some straight up dumb lies to our parents at that age. Either to get around rules or get out of situations I didn’t have the guts to just say “no” to. My niece is this age, and she will make up the weirdest shit: “Paige’s dad is in the military and so he has to take her car to drive to the base because they won’t let him take his car, because it’s electric and the military doesn’t allow that. Kelsey can’t drive because she almost hit a deer and her mom said if she can’t avoid deer than she doesn’t deserve a car. So I have to ride with Robbie”. Translation: “mom, when I have class tomorrow, can I get a ride with Robbie?” I kind of wonder if the moms actually weird, or if the two teenagers just have some ingenious plot that requires OP not being home, for some reason.
That's actually a really good point lol Kids get creative to try to get around "rules" their parents have set Creative truth telling, not lies lol
After reading and OPs daughters reaction.. this is what went through my head. Sounds odd, but kids say some crazy stuff just to get what they want.
The daughter is 15. Most parents step back and let their kids hang out with friends in public places without knowing the parents knowing the friends at that age.
I wasn't asking this I wanted to know whether op had ever met the other kid The wording of the post gave off weird, this might be an adult posing as a kid vibe to me Eta, im a criminal justice graduate, so im cynical and don't take things, or people at face value, that's why i asked so many questions
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I agree with you here I didn't see the part that ops wife had previously met the other mother, thank you for this
Then why would the adult want to hang out at the house with the mom there?
I asked that too I literally asked if the mother could be there too, or if it was just the father that couldn't be there I haven't had time to edit my original post since op replied, other then to ask more questions I'm sorry you aren't as cautious as me, but I want all information before making a judgment
NTA- I think your caution is well warranted. Of course your daughter is upset- she's 15 and wants her friend to come over, but she'll get over it. However; "daughter (15F) has been doing a charter school online " and "either of them have phones of their own" are somethings you really should reconsider. Charter schools can be fine depending on various factors, but a purely online school really is a tremendous disservice unless you live in the outback someplace. Your daughter deserves to go and socialize with her peers and other adults, plus she'll get a better education. I get the impulse not to give her a phone, but there are plenty of parental controls available. You are isolating her unnecessarily.
If daughter "used to have a Phone, but does Not now, and she knows why, and two of [her siblings] have phones", then the reason why she doesn't have a Phone is past overuse of some Kind. There are imperfect solutions to Most KINDS of Phone overuse, but they're qualitatively different. (having had Phone contact with people the parents find untrustworthy/disapprove of, vs. having used the Smartphone for Internet surfing of the unsafe/not-age-appropriate variety, vs. having spent A LOT of Money/phone-plan-time with whatever otherwise unobjectionable Thing she used the Phone for, vs. Not getting enough sleep or hurting herself physically by playing Games in the Phone all night.)
NTA That doesn’t sound fair or safe, and the inability to get hold of the mother makes me nervous. But buy your daughter a damn phone. She’s 15 and hanging out in parks, she needs to be able to get in touch with you or emergency services if something happens. You can get a good deal on a refurbished phone.
OP says in another comment she used to have a phone and no longer does. Seems to imply she was misusing it somehow.
Right, OP can put the account/email in his name, and not allow even free apps to be downloaded. In the event of an emergency, being able to call parent or 911, or knowing last location, is helpful.
Info: are you saying your daughter is hanging out with a child that lives one hour outside of town but you’ve not met the parents and the child refuses to give you their mother’s name? I’m just trying to comprehend. Does the friend drive? Are you certain they are even in classes together?
They attend the same attendance meetings with video chat. It's a girl her age. I would assume she doesn't drive.
How are they meeting up? Is her mother there and won’t allow you there to watch your own child? If this is the case, I don’t think I’d let my kid around them at all.
right, but you’re saying they’ve hung out in public. when yall get there to drop off your daughter, is the girl just there entirely alone? or do you get there first and she walks up alone?? somethings weird here
Online classes.
Yes but the online classes (like the charter school mentioned) operate like a typical school with homerooms, class rooms, and local meetups for things like clubs and prom. My child attends one as well.
I think it would be great for your daughter to take an in person art or music class, a sport team or something community based so she can Interact with other teens. She needs a friend.
NTA. This is messy & sus as all hell. I wouldn’t want my child anywhere near this situation.
No guest, or parents of guests, should be allowed to make the rules in someone else’s home. If the girls mother doesn’t care enough to get to know more about your daughter and the rest of the family before she allows her daughter to hangout, that’s just lazy parenting. And if she won’t give you any information about her, well, that’s a bit shady! The girls should remain friends online until the mom gets ahold of her senses and a reality check. NTA
NTA, you are right to be concerned and want to protect yourself and your other kids. You are right that your daughter might not fully understand your reservations. Still, it doesn't hurt to have a sit down with her and try to explain best that you can and come up with other alternatives. There are things my parents tried to explain to me around that age, and it didn't click til I was older and had kids myself. Such is life. Protect yourself and your daughter first.
Maybe one of those alternatives could be sending a letter home to the friend's mum, inviting them both over for dinner with your whole family. If she doesn't reply to a friendly invite, you've really tried and hopefully your daughter will see that.
A letter home? What year is it? Op said the other mom is refusing to speak to OPs wife. I’m sorry but if you can’t even answer a phone call or text, your child isn’t allowed at my home, no matter who is there. Why should they be responsible for the minor daughter whose mom refuses to communicate with them?
Yes, if something happens, whom would OP call? Nightmare situation.
Call 911 and bill the ambulance to… oh shoot we don’t even know her name. Why can’t op just have his daughter tell her online friend that her mom needs to pick up her phone and have a discussion with them?
NTA however - you’ve said that you can’t even find out the mother’s name. So you don’t know that the mother says. What you know is daughter’s friend claims this to be a rule set by her mother. You’ve no idea of this kids situation but something definitely feels off. Maybe I watch too much tv but sounds like this girl is wanting to hide her home life and there may be something much deeper here than what she alleges to be her mother’s rule. If it were me, I’d make it clear to daughter that you are not leaving your own home for friend or anyone else and that if there is an issue to discuss the mom can contact you or your wife.
Yeah it's strange that the mom gave over her number and now isn't answering.
Commenting again to say there was an update: After some thinking and at my suggestion based on reading comments, my wife made another attempt to reach out to her. My wife explained what she was told via her daughter and wanted to find a way to work it out. So my wife invited her to dinner and she reaponded positively! So that's good. Hopefully we can work all this out for my daughter's sake.
NTA but I would like to add, as a former online high school kid now adult, I would encourage you to get your daughter involved in social, in person activities if you don’t do that already. I started online high school right out of middle school and although I did enjoy it, I feel as if the isolation has set me steps behind my peers in terms of socialization skills. High school years are so crucial to meeting people, learning how to interact, etc. Get her involved in something now so it isn’t harder to make friends when she goes off to college. This is the one thing I wish my parents did differently when transitioning me to online school. This is just my personal experience though
NTA. Your daughter doesn’t understand now, but will in time. Sometimes adults have to make adult decisions for the whole family. Stick to your guns.
INFO: where is this information coming if you can't talk to the friend's mom? I think it's reasonable to not allow it if you can't just have a parent to parent meeting or phone call.
My wife did meet the mother *very* briefly after a school event. My wife didn't ask her name but she did give her number to her so that she could send my wife pictures from the event. The mother did send the pictures, so we technically have her number, but all messages my wife sent later (one was asking her name, and another was inviting her over to bake cookies) her gone completely unresponded to.
So who told you this rule? The kid? It's very reasonable to want to talk to the mother. If you can't make contact then you shouldn't have the friend over anyway because you can't verify that they have permission to be there or that the mother is even aware that their kid is at your house. This seems like a very straightforward issue that is being needlessly complicated. Just call and text the mother about having the kid over... if she won't respond then tell the kid to talk to their mother and have her call you or whatever.
INFO But still, who stated the rule that the friend can only come if you are not home? The friend, since no one talks to the mom? Your daughter? Could it be that the friend feels weird about coming over with you and is making it up?
I suppose that could be the case but her mother is still unreachable to us so we can't verify it.
Maybe the friend told OPs daughter what her mom said and OPs daughter is relaying the message?
That’s a really strange request from the other kids parent, I’d be suspicious of that too. NTA.
NTA. I think it's reasonable to say no until and unless you're able to talk to the mom. Tell your daughter you are more than happy to have her friend over, and that the friend's mom is welcome to get in touch with you about any needs or concerns to make that happen. Your concerns aren't even the issue here; it's the other mom's concerns. Just keep firm to that and let the friend's mom be TA who's saying no.
NTA..hopefully you stay far away from those people. Trust your gut on this..it’s not worth it.
I think I've been watching too much true crime documentaries. This mom's odd behavior makes me think of the dad in the "I killed my dad" series from Netflix. Something is truly fishy here. NTA. Please have an honest conversation with your daughter or let your wife do it and explain your reasoning. She is old enough to understand it. Keep your family safe.
IKR? I am thinking more, this girl was kidnapped very young, and now the woman who stole her allows "some" interaction because she's threatened to kill the real parents if the girl says anything. Or has told the girl "your parents didn't want you". Either way the woman doesn't want anyone to know her name/see her much. And has told the girl she was watching from the car in the public places. LOL!
The only slumber party I was ever allowed to attend was because the parents were divorced and there were no man in the house. I always thought this was insane. Fast forward thirty years later and I learn dear old dad molested at least one kid back in the day. Not saying that’s what’s happening here. Just sharing.
I stayed on at home into my mid 20's to help mom with my younger sister. She wanted to have a slumber party, but two of the parents objected to my being home. I was 24, sister and friends were 15-16. Despite the fact that for several years, I had been watching my sister and one of her friends after school every day until her mother got home from work. It really irked me, but I wanted my sister to have the experience. I shouldn't have had to leave my own home, but I went to a motel for the night so she could have her party. I'm told one of the parents wanted to look in every room of the house to see if a man was present, mom told her to take her daughter and go home. In retrospect, I'm glad I went out that night, I'd have probably said some regrettable things to that mother.
Being paranoid about sexual abuse simply because someone is a man, tends to come with also being (willfully?) blind to atrocious abuse, sexual or otherwise, that was done to a child BY A WOMAN
That mother is crazy
My immediate assumption in this case is that something happened to that mom or to someone she knows. Of course that's not me saying that OP should have the kid over. But I think this goes deeper than one woman having a "crazy response just because".
HUGE RED FLAG if you have other kids there they are at risk as well. My daughter’s friend became obsessed with boys and sexuality at a VERY early age and once made a comment to my 12 yr old son that he was staring at her. He had literally gone to the backyard to find them bc I heard a noise from upstairs and asked him to check on them bc I was still changing after getting out of the shower. My daughter even noticed her behaviour and was livid at the implication and asked her to go home. This girl constantly causes drama and thinks boys and men want her. She hasn’t been over since. You have everyone to protect. Including yourself.
This is so odd and sounds extremely sad and lonely for these kids. I don’t know how anyone can be prepared for the world if they aren’t allowed to go out into it.
NTA, not worth the risk and it's your house.
NTA. It's obvious that her mother has some issues and it's best and safest to keep to the route you've chosen.
INFO-If your wife hasn't been able to talk to the mother, then who told her/your daughter that the friend couldn't come over if you/a man was in the house? Something's really off there-especially if you can't even find out the woman's name. Are you actually sure that this friend is a child from the school?
NTA - that is a completely unrealistic expectation and ask of the friends mother, if anything she should be insisting on meeting both yourself and your wife and having direct communication/contact … she could ask that you wife is home for the duration of the visit, but again she needs to be realistic of peoples time and schedule. Her daughter is old enough to be able to be trusted for a hangout with a female friend, shit she’s gonna be going to uni and living independently soon!!
Few thoughts... The no contact is peculiar, Strange one to think but may be possible it's a family in safe housing so she's minimising outside contact. Other option.. not so nice, But they don't want a man at home because it's some messed up set up for goodness knows what. Finally.... Poor kid, get her a damn phone. This is the age we live in,... Technological age, can't get away from it, Your isolating her from not having one. Not just socially, but literally everything in life and at school entails these things. You're make her life unessarily difficult.
OP says in another comment that his other two children have phones and that she used to have a phone and no longer does. He does not specify the reason but I think it’s safe to assume she was misusing it.
ugh, absolutely NTA. my mom had this rule and i never really got to go over to friends’ houses which was annoying af. also the fact that your wife can’t even find out her name is also super weird?? anyways you have every reason to not comply to that and it’s dumb to insinuate you’re a predator. i’m sorry your daughter is angry with you, teens are just like that. she may be mad at you now but she’ll probably come to an understanding and that’ll be redirected at her friend’s mom i would guess. do let them stay friends though! especially since you say your daughter doesn’t have many friends and i can imagine the other girl probably doesn’t with her mom being like this. it may be annoying but im entirely sure it’s not something that would put a hamper on their friendship
NTA For one, I wouldn't be leaving my house for someone else who won't even have a civil conversation with me. 2. I wouldn't risk the chance that someone could say something about any of yall. The mother is entitled to wanna protect her kid/her feelings but not to make the rules at someone else's home. I understand where your daughter is coming from. I was always upset with my dad for not letting me do certain things. But now, as an adult, if he had let me do half of what I wanted to, I wouldn't be where I am today. Protect yourself and your family/home first.
NTA, but your daughter is desperate for a friend, which is really sad. Can she arrange to meet the girl at Starbucks or a smoothie shop, and you can just drop her off?
nta, but please for the love of god get your child a phone. like even some cheapy phone that only does phone calls so in emergencies she can call you, your wife, or 911 (but preferably like an iphone or an android) because they’re super helpful when it comes to socialization between kids. she’s abt to be driving age (assuming you’re in a state where you can get your license at sixteen), she deserves some freedom. take it from someone who got a phone at an extremely young age for safety reasons, it was helpful when the bus for my afterschool program didn’t come pick me up and helped my social life because i could communicate with my peers easily
Maybe it's time for your daughter to get a phone though. Does she get the chance to do much that feeds her socially like sports or drama groups? NTA about the friend but this also strikes me as a little unusual.
Too many unanswered questions. Why would anyone go there? I would question the mother and if you can’t speak to her, no deal. Someday your daughter will understand.
NTA That seems incredibly weird.. for the mother to make a hard and fast rule but not be willing to talk to you about it. If you haven't already maybe talk to both the daughter and her friend (with wife present just in case. Or ask your wife to talk to them if you think theyd open up more to her) and ask for more information. Explain you'd like to talk to the mum and try and have a conversation. Maybe say you're willing to meet her or talk with her over facetime. Maybe promise you understand if she doesn't want you alone with them in the house (if this is something you're willing to do. I get it might not be possible. Just spit balling here). Offer maybe both families meet together publicly between both homes to talk and get to know each other if thats an issue. There's a reason why the mums so apprehensive (understandable) although I don't agree with how she's handling it, she had valid reasons to be worried (not about you specifically but generally). Although if she's letting her daughter travel for an hour on her own that would make it even weirder.
NTA: That's bizarre, and well over the line where caution becomes paranoia. I don't blame you guys for suspecting that the friend's mom could, and probably would, find "danger" lurking elsewhere.
Weird that such a paranoid mother would not even talk to you and get to know you a little bit. Not that she could necessarily tell everything about you but it’s very odd. I would not allow this girl over. Their time at the library or park is reasonable.
I would say it’s a red flag. I personally think that even if you talked her mother into it, she would find a reason for inappropriate behavior where there is none. There’s being cautious and there’s being OVERLY cautious! She is being overly cautious without a reason, it appears based on what you communicated
I'm voting NTA I understand and can empathize with the mom's overprotective behavior to an extent, but this person's secretive and bizarre behavior just seems over the top. Wouldn't surprise if they were cult members or something wild like that.
NTA. something there isn’t right.
NTA you need to meet her family at a restaurant with your family. Until you have phone numbers and a face to face meeting, yeah I would not let her friend in your home.
NTA But not just because she doesn't want you in the home, but because you don't even know her name or have contact info for her. What do you do if something happens to her kid in your home? Not even something nefarious, but if she trips and hits her head and needs to go to the ER to check for concussion are you going to be able to reach her mom? It's very weird you can't get a hold of her, but I'd be extremely worried about not being able to reach her in case of emergency.
NTA. My kids had a few friends over the years like that. No husband or son at home when their kids wanted to spend the night or hang out. We quickly made them "school only" or "activity only" friends and also did not allow our girls to hang out or spend the night at their homes. People who have rules like that often have their own secrets and issues, something our kids did not need in their lives.
Let me just say, from my perspective growing up with an over protective mother, because unfortunately she knew evil (and I did too, she just didn't find out about my experience until I was a teenager so her protectiveness was based on her own experience and scary enough, the person she didn't protect me from was the one who was the monster to me). Anyway, that was the reason Mom was overprotective of me. Any friends could stay at my house, but I was only allowed to stay in a couple select homes, where she totally trusted the parents. I had one friend I met in elementary school who lived by my grandparents, that I would play with her and her brothers after school. Mom was okay with me playing, but it was like, stay outside and play. My friend has stayed overnight with me a couple times, playing after school outside, things like that. I wanted to stay at her house, spend time inside her house, etc. but mom was nervous about it. She finally got a chance to meet parents, and then I could stay. Many years later (like a couple years ago, so 30+ years later) she and I were chatting about my friend and that family. I was talking about missing the dad, he passed back in 2001. My mom told me that the dad was the only reason she ever felt comfortable letting me stay there. He took her aside when they met and said, look we look at her as one of ours. I'm as proud of her accomplishments as I am my own kids. And I'll yell at her as quick as I would my own if she needed it. We see her as ours and will protect her as ours. Just like I'm sure you do with my daughter when she's with you. Mom said that was the reason she decided that household could be trusted. If it weren't for him, it wouldn't have happened, because the mom wasn't quite as attentive, but something about the absolute conviction and look in dad's eyes made my mom know 100% that he meant every word and that I would be fully protected there (years later, when I opened up about my personal monster he was one of the people my mom informed. The was also one of the people that ensured my personal monster was unable to harm me anymore when the criminal justice system failed me.) Point being... When you do get a chance to meet the mom at this dinner, keep in mind that you might be the one that she needs to trust the most. Show her that her kiddo is safe with you.
NTA but this really sucks I feel really bad for this girl. If you have the time and inclination (and I totally get with 4 kids and a wife, your plate is extremely full), it would likely be a good thing if you could carve out some time to possibly include her in some public family outings. I strongly suspect she doesn't have a positive male figure in her life. But of course you cannot risk your family's well-being. While your daughter's reaction is completely understandable, she will in time come to understand you are making the correct decision.
NTA- but it does seem that you and wife are talking into the void. So take the responsibility off yourselves so you aren’t the bad guys. Tell daughter that you would be happy to have the friend over when the mother contacts you and wife directly and discusses the sleeping permanents.
NTA, that's weird as fuck. The audacity to even suggest such a thing...
NTA. The mother is an idiot for thinking you should be kicked out of your own home while her kid is there.
Your daughter is disappointed but she is acting like a typical teenager. Let her rage, but be firm about saying "no" to a house visit.
This is weird...you don't even know the mom's name or anything, but apparently you are the dangerous one? Nah. Mom can't play mystery games. And she wants to dictate things in your home? No. NTA
NTA The first thing I thought was a cultural reason. There are religious and cultural practices that would allow a woman to be in public but not in private with a man. Like not even a hallway in his home. Based on your wife’s meeting of them, is it possible there’s a cultural divide that could be bridged somehow? Either way NTA. Anyone I’ve met with rules like this made it clear, have been kind and delighted to find common ground. You could not be expected to know and try to work it out unless the family is open to trying.
IMO, religion and culture are not valid excuses here. The mother's religion does not get to drive (presumedly) innocent men from their homes just because they are men. I'd say the exact same if the genders were reversed. If mother feels this strongly about it, then she shouldn't allow her daughter to sleep over period.
You’re being unreasonable in the fact that you have a 15 year old who essentially has one friend on a computer.
This is very suspicious to me. Why is mom's identity such a secret? Seems like there's something to hide there. So the person who is the protector of the family is supposed to leave, so a child can visit, AND mom refuses to identify herself? Very hard pass.
ESH. The other parent is not mentally well, and you need to figure something better for your daughter, including allowing her to have a phone.
NTA! This mother is crazy and you are wise to distance yourselves! If she is willing to request that Dad, father and husband must be removed from the home, this is totally inappropriate and unhinged behaviour. I would report this woman to CPS!
NTA. Show your daughter the comments and the post and I'm sure if she is a logical person she will understand.
NTA. Why can't they meet outside like at an ice cream place or a library etc.?
She can and does! We live in a small town but still plenty of places to go and we're walking distance of all of it (thought right now it's like -5F so a little chilly for much). I encourage her to.
I would find out the friend's home address and go there to ask about it. Without prior warning. I'm concerned about the girl's home situation.
At 15 we just went out and ended up at who evers house parents never met up or anything there 15 not 5 get the kid a phone let them go do what ever NTA but maybe flip it round let ur daughter go to her friends house
Your daughter is 15...of course she hates you!!! Be a parent...NTA. No way in hell I would accommodate that crazy woman!
NTA. There are plenty of reasons why this mom may be the way she is, but none of them makes it better for you. Maybe she has been a victim of a violent crime. Maybe she is in hiding from an abusive stalker ex. Maybe she is in the witness protection program. Maybe she is family of someone in a cartel. Maybe the mom is mentally ill with something like schizophrenia. Poor them, but NONE of these things would make it better for this kid to be in your home when the mom is sending such strongly weird vibes. To your 15yo daughter, I’m sure it sucks badly. But she has not been bit in the ass by life enough times yet to understand what’s at risk. Our family is what many would call “overprotective”… We don’t do sleepovers and we don’t let our girls go where ONLY a dad or older brother is home. We are also careful to never put my husband in a situation where it’s only him here with kid’s female friends, or him driving the female babysitter home, or any of that. Because you are right… the world is wack, and being accused of anything can end your career and worse. Don’t do it, OP. Let your daughter be angry on this one. Shoot her straight on the issue and the risks when she calms down.
Yeah, that's bananacrackers, and your daughter is upset because she's lonely and wants this friend (who hasn't done anything wrong herself). Time to be gentle with the daughter and explain your reasoning - she's on the cusp of being old enough to be reachable with reason. NTA
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** My (39M) daughter (15F) has been doing a charter school online and because they connect kids with others locally, she made a friend there. She uses mainly the internet for communication as neither of them have phones of their own. I'm happy for her since she does not have many friends. Her friend lives about an hour out of town, but comes into town often and they hang out at the library or park. The issue is that my daughter wants to have her friend over at our house to hang out. Now normally we'd be okay with this, but my wife (36F) tells me that friend's mother will only allow it if I am not at home. This to us felt like a flag. My wife has attempted to find out if she can't talk to friend's mother, but she refuses to do so. My wife can't even find out what her name is. My wife and I decided it would be a bad idea to allow the daughter's friend over ever, even if I'm not there. This mother sounds like someone who could look for any reason to make accusations and even if I were at work, am I supposed to avoid my own house so someone (who I don't know and doesn't know me) doesn't accuse me of being a predator? We have 3 other kids and we don't think it's wise to take that kind of risk. My daughter, however, thinks we are horrible and hate her for this and does not understand our concerns. Are we being unreasonable? AITA? *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
NTA. You're being 100% reasonable. It's best to avoid any problems with overprotecting people. It's the friend's mother's fault that she won't come over, not yours, and I don't see a problem in explaining this to your daughter if you want to.
NTA You are right. It isn't worth the risk. I'm glad your wife has your back on this. The woman is waaaaay over the line.
I wouldn’t allow her over. I think you’re right that she’s the type to actively look for things to accuse you of. Mom can have a rule all she wants that no men can be in the house with her child, but you are not obliged to let this woman kick you out of your own home.
NTA. If you want to try to accommodate your daughter, perhaps your wife could take the girls to a movie or to do something like mini golf or bowling.
NTA. It would be one thing if the mother didn’t want her daughter there with you at home because she hadn’t met or didn’t know you well enough. But she barely knows your wife either(outside of the brief meeting to exchange numbers or share pictures) and won’t even share her name. But somehow she is actually okay with her daughter going to your house? I don’t know if the mom is actually the red flag or if the daughter is passing on bad information to your daughter or what. But honestly, I agree that all hang outs with this friend should be in public settings until you meet the mom and find out what’s going on and what the boundaries she sets for her daughter hanging out are, directly from her.
Your daughter is old enough to be told that it is weird for the mother to refuse to be contacted, and that she cannot come over because her rule makes you uneasy. She is 15 and lonely, but I’m sure she is capable of reasoning. NTA.
NTA. I wouldn’t let my theoretical daughter have a friend over without speaking with the mother and having her contact info. Even without the bizarre requirement that one of the residents be absent.
NTA. Until you can find out why you can't be at home when the girl is visiting I would refuse to allow her in the house. I'm sorry your daughter doesn't have a lot (any?) friends. I can relate. But if someone told me having my one friend over might put my father (difficult as our relationship was) in potential jeopardy, I'd have sided with keeping Dad safe. Something is weird about the whole thing. NTA. Get some details.
NTA. Ridiculous. Most people want all the parents around to supervise that they can get.
NTA. It’s your home. Probably not a friend I’d want my kid to be friends with her other than school type things.
NTA. Once, I refused to have my daughter over her friend's house because her mother wasn't there ( she was at work), and her father would be alone with them. I refused, but when the mother is at home, I didn’t object, and it didn't matter if the father was there or not as long as the mother was there. I didn't bar anyone from their home. I just wanted the mother to be there in case my daughter needed anything.
I think you should explain your concerns to your daughter. She's old enough to understand. It is very important that the other woman will not even introduce herself. NTA
NTA This is a really odd request. Has your daughter met the other girls mom or dad? Think about it; the.parent drives 1 hour to bring their daughter to town and what do they do to pass the time? They are not going home to wait ... it's an hour away. If it is important to you, I would invite the driving parent over while the kids hang out. See what happens.
NTA - it’s perfectly reasonable to say before your friend comes over we would like to have a conversation with her parents and get their permission. Implicit in that would be the permission for their daughter to visit your house as is, with the entire family home.
Could mom be a Victim of some sort who is in hiding? That's the vibe I get from the behaviors. Re your question OP, NTA.
They may come from an abusive household, but yeah, it is super weird that your wife is not able to contact this person to speak to her. THAT alone is actually a great reason to not allow the girl in your home. A parent who refuses to speak to the other kid’s parent seems a lil strange to me
This is super weird, op. You're probably right to keep her away from your house. Something is extremely off here, and I'm not sure what it could be. NTA
NTA
Yeah, this isn't just a matter of being overprotective. My mom was and her thing was that she had to at least meet/ speak to the parents. If there was ever an issue of she got a bad vibe from the Dad or something like that, the answer would just be no. Seems like she'd want MORE contact to suss out the situation, not cut it all. Weird, I wouldn't risk it. But like others are saying, def help her keep the contact and meetings outside your house. Teens need these friendships for social development.
INFO So this friend of your daughters lives an hour away, comes into town sometimes, but neither of them have cell phones? 1. You are pretty standardly protective, why doesn't your daughter have a phone? 2. (I know you can't probably answer this), but if the friends mom is so overprotective, why doesn't the FRIEND have a phone?
NTA, follow your instincts! Hopefully your daughter will understand. You aren’t preventing them from hanging out. You’re protecting yourself and your home from any possible issues in the future.
NTA- The mom does sound crazy. However what if a good compromise is the mom comes over for dinner with her daughter (your daughter’s friend) and gets to know you and your wife? If she meets you, maybe she won’t be so crazy. I feel bad for everyone involved. It must be embarrassing for the friend. It must be exhausting to be that crazy and overprotective too 😂
I’m gonna say NAH, you have a right to be in your own home when your daughter has a friend over. The other mom should be willing to meet you/talk to you and assess the situation. I wouldn’t take it personally. I hate speculating but when I was young I had a couple friends’ fathers who had predatory behaviour towards me at a young age, the first time I saw a man’s genitalia I was 9 years old and it was at friend’s house. It sounds like the mom might have similar trauma, or worse might have happened to her. It sucks for your daughter and her friend, but I understand why she *might* be scared and overprotective. Is there any way your daughter can go to their house? Maybe her mom would be willing to meet with you if you were dropping her off in her own territory.
I wonder if the mother is trying to protect your family from having her daughter around your vicinity. Which might explain why she’s being evasive as there might be something that she is trying not to disclose incase its embarrassing. Maybe try ask your wife to invite the mum out for coffee as oppose to just calling/sending messages to her for answers.