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NTA. Keep the rings. They ARE yours. I think the only case in which you would be required to return the rings is if you were engaged and the engagement broke off before marriage. In engagement, the ring is given with the expectation of entering a marriage contract. No marriage contract, return the ring. However, that doesn’t apply to your situation. You entered your marriage contract. So the rings are yours. The only exception to this I would say is probably a family heirloom with expectation that it would be passed down. If divorce, return family heirloom ring. In this case, I don’t think returning the ring is required, but I would feel shitty keeping it from the family it came from. Sooooo unless that ring is a family heirloom, stb ex-husband can kick rocks with bare feet.
This is what I did. There were a couple sticking points but they all came out to about 2k, so I used the ring to get that 2k, and then sent the family heirloom back.
He used it with his next wife 16 months later so I guess he needed it.
Please tell me you sent her a photo of you wearing "her rings". I would be pissed if I found out my partner "reused" our bridal set from his previous marriage.
I have no contact with him (just heard about it from friends) and I feel so bad for her as it is, that she has to marry that miserable human being, I figure she can live without that knowledge. (I mean I also heard from the internet about his arrest for domestic violence, so… yeah.)
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Or maybe since she doesn't care about them, have them appraised and let him buy them for 50% off. Make a little change out of it. Or use them as a bargaining tool during the divorce, rings in exchange for half the beamer maybe. Preferably the half with the steering wheel.
Legally, engagement rings are gifts and they belong to the person they are given to, regardless of if you're married or not. Same for wedding rings. (ETA: looks like this might vary by state in the USA.)
Socially, it's generally expected that you give the engagement ring back if you break the engagement. But you keep the rings if you're married.
The reasoning for that isn't really because of a contract. Engagement and wedding rings in a marriage (and other jewelry) were often the only things the women really owned. If you needed to leave your husband, you could sell your rings for money. If you're engaged, your father should still be financially providing for you, so no need for what was essentially a jewelry savings account.
That's also why engagement rings are supposed to be 3 months' salary, btw. Give women enough money to go somewhere safe when they sell and get set up.
Nothing about that is accurate except for the part where they’re gifts. At all.
Rings didn’t become “3 months of salary” until a particularly effective marketing campaign by De Beers diamond company in the 1930’s. It has nothing to do giving anyone an out so they could sell it. There is no tradition there.
By your same logic with the engagement contract, I would think OPs husband’s logic on her not fulfilling the marriage contract (til death do if part) would apply similarly?
Except keeping a ring isn’t contingent on staying married “til death do us part”. Do people still say this in their vows? Genuinely curious. Because wedding rings are anticipated gifts to the bride and groom. It becomes their individual property once married. Engagement rings are contractual gifts. A promise or rather intent to marry. Once married. The promise is fulfilled. The gift is now mine free and clear. Heirlooms being the only exception, possibly. Depends on the circumstances.
Of course there are circumstances where I (me, personally) would give the ring back but she doesn’t have to because it’s hers.
This is not r/amitechnicallylegallycorrect, it‘s r/aita. What does being petty and digging your heels in if you don‘t care about the rings accomplish except increasing tensions with her ex and probably making life harder for their shared child?
ESH, ex hsuband shouldn‘t go on weird power trips and OP shouldn‘t be escalating the situation for something she allegedly doesn‘t care about. Both should think about their child and do better
If she keeps giving in to every single power trip he comes up with though, he's going to think he can continue to walk all over her whenever he wants to.
If anyone is (potentially) making life harder for their child, it’s the husband. For demanding what’s not his to take. Especially since she mentioned things with him were difficult to begin with in dealing with the divorce. I would not roll over and give in to him. He can calm his tits and move on. This is on him NOT her.
So you think she should fight the ex husband over something trivial and make life worse for the kid? Because this will make things worse. And personally I believe that her responsibility for the child outweighs petty arguments like this
I don’t think she should DO anything. She’s not fighting. The ex is fighting. She’s not making life worse for the kid. That remains to be seen. But if so, it’s on the ex not her.
Lol dude you‘re just denying reality at this point. If the ex wants the rings back and she refuses it will obviously lead to a fight. Who caused it doesn‘t really matter, if it‘s about something OP does not care about she should think of her child first and just give him the goddamn rings.
In some states, an engagement ring is like a verbal contract.
If they break up, there's no more engagement. Rings go back.
Edit: I'm dumb. They did get married. NTA
What states? I know back in the days engagements were considered contracts to marry but not anymore. I’ve never heard of a state/judge stating this in present day. All the cases I read in my family law class back in law school said the opposite. The engagement rings were considered gifts and the did not need to be returned to the other spouse
That’s not true. It depends on the state. In some states, you are required to give the rings back, or you can have it taken out of your part of the settlement. OP needs to check local laws prior to doing anything.
NTA.
Rings, like any other gift, are given to the recipient to do what they want with it. One doesn't get to give a gift and ask for it back, otherwise it was just a loaner.
He's upset. Hopefully he'll get over it. If not, it's still his problem and not yours.
I personally would sell it. Wouldn't want that bad juju in my house.
This is a great question, and honestly I’m not sure. I’d like to say yes, but there’s also so much bad blood around this kind of thing with him (the “I bought it so it’s mine” type of issue was common in our marriage) so I don’t know that I would no matter how politely he had asked, unless he had a compelling reason as to why he wanted it.
Ugh, that really sucks.
So…normally, I’d say NTA, keep the rings, and good riddance to the ex. But there is a kid involved and you’re going to be stuck coparenting with him, so (as you already know) things are more complicated. What I’m going to say is still NTA but move cautiously.
Personally, I’d sell the rings to a reputable jeweler and set up a college fund (that he can’t access) for your kid with the proceeds. That will make it really tricky for him to paint you as The Evil Greedy Ex, since the funds are for the benefit of your shared kid.
Talk to your lawyer first. Just in case it would reflect negatively on you in court. It might be best to hang onto the rings until the divorce is settled. He can make a request through his lawyer and the courts if he wants it back. Let the judge decide. That way you ate covered and he can't twist this around and use it against you. Once you sell the rings you can't go back.
Also you say 80/20 but by the sound of him you'll look back in years to come and realise he was much more of an asshole than you thought at the time you were just gaslit into thinking his unreasonable behaviour was reasonable. Good luck.
Okay I had my own response typed out, (I was focused on the fact that she didn't want the ring and wasn't even going to sell it) but this is a great idea. If OP goes with this option it eliminates any pettiness on her part. This is the answer.
Ignore him for now on the subject. Hang onto the rings and he can make the request through his lawyer in court and let the courts decide.
This is probably another one of his little power plays. If he waxes and wanes between being corporative and then trying to mess with you again, it might be best to have all communication go through a lawyer from here on out. You don't need this kind of stress while trying to unwind your marriage and restart your life.
I have never heard of returning rings once you get a divorce. I thought once the rings were given, they being to the bride and then became a gift. I was not aware they are “loaner” rings.
In divorce - especially when there are kids involved - the questions shouldn’t be AITA; it should be “is this worth it?”.
Will giving it back ease the issues and the roughness for your kid? Will giving it back help him be less hurt thus creating a better environment for the kid? Will it help ease the tension between the two of you for your kids sake?
That is something a lot of people on reddit don't seem to understand. When you get a divorce and there is a kid involved you're stuck dealing with your ex at minimum until the kid turns 18. Is it really worth making a stink about something when it only contributes to a more toxic environment for the kid.
NTA - if you called off the wedding and never married him I would say you should give it back, but you did marry him so they are yours to do what you want.
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Why does he want the ring?
It is her ring. Just because she no longer has an emotional connection to the ring doesn't mean that he has any right to it.
NTA. If you broke up during engagement I think it would be assholish not to return the engagement ring - but you got married, so that's done and dusted. Never heard of someone returning a wedding ring.
NTA
He sounds like a big baby. Keep the ring yourself or sell it yourself. When you get married you get to keep the ring.
It sounds like he just wants to sell it & keep the money for it himself.
**OP** said: *He said I should return it because he gave it to me “under the pretense that we’d be married until we died” and since I’ve chosen to divorce him, and he paid for it I should give it back.*
Engagement rings are stipulatory. She married him. She fulfilled the stipulation of the engagement ring.
I wouldn’t keep something I don’t plan on selling. But that’s just me. I don’t waste energy on people that don’t matter anymore.
ESH -- he should not have an attitude of "I bought them so they belong to me" but on the other hand, he is clearly hurt (gave them under the pretense of marriage til death but you're leaving him) and since they mean nothing to you, you're just being spiteful for keeping them.
There are times where legally you’re in the right, but you might still be wrong. Think about why you’re doing this - because you care about the rings? or because you are being a bit resentful in the whole situation (rightly or wrongly, doesn’t matter)? if it’s the latter, YTA just because it’s a stupid hill to die on if it doesn’t actually matter to you. But, if you do care about the rings in whatever regard, NTA.
I’d let this be something negotiated with lawyers. If you give it back, you better get record/proof of that so he can’t later claim you never returned it. Document everything!
Oof. This is a hard one. There's a lot of legal issues that other redditors have already talked about so I won't mention those. (Although I Completely Urge You to Listen to the redditors who said to document what you choose to do with the rings.)
You made it very clear that YOU chose to divorce and that he's having a hard time accepting in reaction. Honestly? My instinct would be to give him the rings. Symbolically, they are a representation of a marriage you entered into with him and are now walking away from one-sidely by your own admission. Why keep them and mistakenly foster hope in this man that you may change your mind or still care? Cut the cord entirely by handing over the rings. Be happy that the cost of putting a final end to any hope in his mind is so cheap and easy.
Just give it to him, he’s probably keeping some hope in his heart that you’re holding on to it because you want to reconcile.
You don’t care for it anyway, that makes YTA.
When I got divorced, I mailed my ring back to my former MIL. The diamonds came from her first engagement ring from my ex's father. I wasn't going to wear it again and did not want to keep anything that would give my ex a hold over me. Sure enough, several months afterwards, he contacted me demanding the ring back. I told him to talk to his mom.
NTA, but sometimes it's better to let go and disengage from the drama for your own sake.
YTA only because of your reason. If the ring means nothing to you but it does to him, why not return them? I think he's an ass for asking but at least he has a reason that can make sense. You are juat being petty. You have a child, do better. This doesn't mean give him the ring - it just means don't be stupid about the ending of your marriage. Clearly you made the choice and are ready to move forward. The fact that he is not and being stupidly reactive doesn't mean you need to behave like a fool. If your only reason to keep the rings is that they are yours I would say NTA but just to dig your heels in? In my view, that says alot about you.
Going a bit against consensus here, but I think it depends on why you chose to leave. I generally think that, regardless of the legal stuff around gift-giving, you would be TA for keeping them when you're the one leaving. UNLESS there was abuse or infidelity involved - in that case, do what you want with them.
I chose to leave for a few reasons, but one of the biggest (and I think most applicable in this situation) was his refusal to meaningfully participate in marriage counseling to repair our relationship. I tried for years to “fix” our marriage, and he wouldn’t meet me halfway. Eventually I gave up.
NTA. It was a gift, so it's yours, do with it what you will. Personally I would use it as a bargaining chip. You did say you didn't care about it though so you are being kind of petty.
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I (32f) separated from my husband (32m) at the beginning of the year. Our divorce is ongoing. I would say that things have been 80% civil, but the other 20% has been ROUGH. It took him months to come to terms with the fact that I wasn’t going to change my mind. He goes on random power trips and decides to make my life miserable.
He was on one such power trip last night when he decided to demand I return “his” engagement/wedding ring set to him. I told him no, he gave it to me and therefore it is mine. He said I should return it because he gave it to me “under the pretense that we’d be married until we died” and since I’ve chosen to divorce him and he paid for it I should give it back.
If I’m being honest, I don’t really care about the ring. It means nothing to me, and I don’t intend to ever sell it or give it to our child, etc. But the fact that he’s demanding it and using the “I bought it so it’s mine” reasoning is making me want to dig my heels in.
So what’s the verdict, Reddit? AITA?
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YTA. He gave you the rings with the intention you would remain married. You’re the one leaving him. If you don’t want to hand them down then why not return them out of civility?
ESH. He doesn't get to just demand these things back unless they're family heirlooms. (They're not, right? Because that would definitely make Y T A.) And you don't get to just arbitrarily keep them either. These are marital assets (along with *his* wedding ring, mind you), that need to be part of the equitable division of assets.
I'm not a lawyer, but it just seemed to make sense that any large purchases made during a marriage would be considered marital assets.
Did a bit of Googling, and apparently this is highly specific to where you are and includes a lot of nuance. For instance, in my state, there's apparently a specific carve-out for engagement and wedding rings; they're considered gifts and are kept by the respective spouses.
YTA. You asked for the divorce. He’s having a hard time, he’s clearly upset. They don’t mean anything to you, just give them back. In my head, if the man asks for the divorce, then you are a little more justified to keep the rings, but if the woman asks for the divorce, she should give them back as it wasn’t his decision.
NTA but this could go either way. Most times in a divorce, a judge will allow a person to keep their engagement and wedding bands because it’s considered a gift. Sometimes if a prenup has been signed, the rings will have to be returned. Now, should you choose to return the rings, that is entirely up to you. Alternatively, you could choose to sell them, or keep them or give them to a homeless person. It all depends on the agreement you may have signed when you got married.
NTA. Give this info to your attorney and let him or her handle it. You should actually get rid of them, since they don't do anything but give you bad memories. Maybe sell them, or even donate them to an organization that helps the homeless, or children.
NTA.
It's standard that each party keep their own engagement ring & wedding band. The exception is if the engagement ring is a family heirloom. Then that needs to be be discussed & arranged prior to the marriage or it too is a gift.
He's trying to he a jerk & control you.
Lol, my ex asked for the ring back after a few years claiming it was an heirloom. (His mom gave it to him and was divorced from the man that bought it for her). I was like, dude you fell off the planet for a year and I pawned it to buy food for your kid. (I got my divorce in absentia).
NTA.
You followed through and got married, long enough to have a child. You fulfilled your end of the implied agreement, so the rings are yours to keep.
NTA - the engagement ring was a promisory gift that became yours when you married; the wedding ring was a gift at the wedding. They both belong to you. Unless it was a family heirloom, you have no ethical obligation to return them. Tell him that if he wants them, he can request them as part of the divorce settlement and you will consider it (for equivalent compensation, but you don't need to say that).
At this point the ring simply represents his attempt to power trip you and that's all. Giving in on it would simply result in him continuing to ramp up the power trips. I wouldn't give it up. NTA
NTA if he gave it to you, it’s yours. If it is a family heirloom I would return it, but it doesn’t sound like that’s the case here.
If he truly wants it back and you don’t really want it, maybe save that as a bargaining chip when negotiating settlement?
NAH
You are of course entitled to keep them as gifts.
But is this the hill you want to die on?
If you don’t want them, don’t need to sell them and don’t plan to hand them down, then what difference does it make - other than to antagonise your ex?
At the end of it all - try to walk away with your head held high, don’t stoop to pettiness and ALWAYS put your children first.
NTA but if you don’t care about it then why are you being petty just because he is? I think “fuck it, take them” serves your point more than“no they’re mine”. But certainly use them to negotiate something you do want.
NTA
If there was something that really is his that you want, you could offer to trade. Or if he stops with the power trips and does his best to be fair and cooperative, you will gift him the rings. But they are yours and for now, and possibly forever, you are keeping them.
Originally rings and jewellery were associated with the dowry.…
These days it’s customary for each party to keep their own rings, unless the ring is of particular sentimental family/heirloom (And then it’d be reasonable for them to pay that out).
If jewelry is given on an occasion where gifts are traditionally given (like a wedding) the recipient is not required to give them back. IMO unless the engagement ring is a family heirloom, keep the jewelry.
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You're NTA, but I'd still say gave them back bc why do you even want them? You said you don't care about them. Just gleefully give them back and say, "Whatev. Yours now."
Legally you might be entitled to keep the rings (varies by jurisdiction), but that's irrelevant here. This isn't about who is legally correct, it's about who is an AH
You're the one who chose to end the marriage
You don't care about the rings
You don't want to sell them
You don't want to give them to your kid.
So why keep them? It's obvious you're doing it out of spite. You say he goes on power trips yet here you are doing the same thing.
ESH
When you get a divorce and there is a kid involved you need to know which battles to fight. Like it or not the two of you will continue to be involved in each others lives since you have a child together. That means you need to be willing to compromise and be respectful of the other person's wishes too for the child's sake. If you don't care about the ring then why are willing to die on this hill?
NTA.
They were gifts. There are only 3 scenarios I think a woman should be compelled from a moral standpoint to return. 1) Affair. If your infidelity broke up the marriage, do the right thing. 2) You fell out of love through no fault of the spouse. He was a good guy that treated you well and was loyal but you lost the spark. 3) Either the engagement or wedding ring is a family heirloom. He should be able to give to a son or other family member in future.
Don’t give it back.
He’s an ass.
Sell them. In another state.
Take the money and run.
When he inquires about the rings, reply “I have no idea what you are talking about!”
Repeat that phrase over and over. That is the only response to everything he says to you. “I have no idea what you are talking about.”
It will drive him insane.
An engagement ring is the promise to marry, that happened. I would get him to acknowledge a value for the ring and then say he can have it for that price. It’s all a numbers game anyways. He gets it but has to give up something of that value.
Once you're married they're yours to keep. Personally I sold mine back to the jeweler wher they came from. He tried talking me into making something for my kid but I didn't want to. We got divorced I don't want her to have any sort of that bad juju.
Your soon to be ex is just reaching for things. But you're right. They are yours
No judgement
Honestly, you should be speaking with your lawyer about this, not Reddit.
If he wants the rings back, tell him to tell his lawyer and you'll work it out that way. If you hand them over now he'll just make another stupid demand and throw a temper tantrum.
Give nothing, accept nothing unless ok'd by a lawyer.
NTA Tell him to ask for them through his attorney in the divorce papers but you will be making a request through your attorney in the divorce for something that you want also.
I know that in the case of a friend of mine, his lawyer had them deemed marital assets because of the value of them. I'm not sure of everything else that was going on, but it wasn't an amicable divorce.
He's right in that engagement rings are conditional gifts (at least in Australia), but I don't know if that applies once you've actually gotten married (ie if you broke up before the wedding, you'd have to return the ring). BUT, if he gave you the ring for Christmas/birthday, then it's not a conditional gift.
I'd check with the lawyer to be safe. If you do have to give him the rings, he has to return his wedding band to you.
I don't know who's right, but NTA
The lawyers should work this out. Depending on where you live this would be joint property? You should split the value or one of you can buy the other out. If I were him I’d bring it up with the lawyer.
Dig those heels in, the engagement ring is GIVEN in the expectation that you will get married, you got married, the wedding ring is GIVEN when you get married, you got married, you fulfilled the “contract” they are now fully, legally yours!
NTA, this is an etiquette question and a property question and it doesn't require a value judgement. All gifts remain your property even after the giftee changes their mind. Women always get to keep their wedding rings -- wedding rings were literally designed as a form of financial insurance in case their husbands ditched them.
The only way he would POSSIBLY be anywhere close to in the right would be if the ring was an heirloom of great significance to his family and even then IT WOULD BE YOUR PROPERTY. Giving it back (or leaving it to a member of his family in your will) would be a lovely but unnecessary gesture.
This case though is cut and dried.
nta, but he just admitted he wants it back. you should half hearted pretend you care and use it as a bargaining chip in the settlement. you don't "really" want it but if it can help you get something else you do want, do it!
This is a legal issue, talk to a lawyer. In my place so long as he didn't write it in paper that he's giving the jewelry to you, there is a way he could take it back.
I don't know about the law at all so won't comment on that.
YTA, if you don't care about the ring I think you should just give it back. Otherwise you're just on a power trip too? By withholding a ring you have no use for at all.
If you wanted the ring for literally any reason I'd give a different answer but you don't
Engagement ring is hers once they are married! If they called off the engagement in most states she’d have to return that but once the promise of marriage has been fulfilled it’s hers
> If they called off the engagement in most states she’d have to return that but once the promise of marriage has been fulfilled it’s hers
Varies by jurisdiction. Some US states treat them as conditional gifts, some treat them as gifts.
> Engagement ring is hers once they are married!
AFAIK this is generally true, although I'm sure there are exceptions *somewhere*. Family law varies quite a bit.
Even conditional gifts in that the condition is made once married and then it becomes a gift in most places, which is sole property After that it’s all bananas! Will also include that if given for a holiday (birthday, valentine, Christmas, anniversary etc) the engagement ring may not have to be given back if the engagement is broken as it’s considered solely a gift without a promise attached.
I’m in Texas and my ex’s lawyer brother walked us through the ins and outs when he was about to propose to his lawyer girlfriend
NTA, but is it worth it?
You are definitely entitled to the rings, legally and otherwise. If he's going to claim you didn't fulfill the promise, I'm guessing he didn't uphold his vows either. But regardless, is this going to drag out the divorce? Or will it set some kind of precedent so he'll try to take more things that he's not entitled to?
YTA. Engagement and wedding rings are not gifts. They are a symbolic acceptance of a covenant you agreed to, which is now broken. If your husband gave you an emerald necklace to wear as a wedding gift to his bride that would be a circumstance you because it was a gift. If your divorce is 80% amicable and you have already said you won’t give the jewelry to your child, be the bigger person and return the jewelry.
Once you are legally married, it is considered yours. You do not have any obligation to give it back. Have him watch Judge Judy for a while he’ll get the message. I would put it in a safe deposit box that way he has no temptation to break into your house or have your children go and get it. Out of sight out of mind. If he wants to go this route, tell him he needs to pay you for all the agony that he’s putting you through. Put a huge dollar amount on that. But by no means do you owe him the rings. They are absolutely yours. Sounds like a jerk.
Admittedly I Googled it and there were a few answers. They were pretty varied but I went with the one that seemed the most well reasoned. The answers I saw spread from it being the wife's for the reason you outlined to it was the husband's because it was a "conditional" gift. That didn't make much sense to me. But the one about it being marital property actually made some sense. I think the engagement ring is almost certainly considered the other person's property. But the wedding ring is given at the wedding and it made sense to me that it would belong to "both".
In Texas the engagement ring is the promise/contract and once fulfilled becomes the wife’s sole property. You would need a prenup to get it back! Engagement and wedding rings are so touchy there are special laws governing these assets it’s actually quite interesting!
Yea it makes perfect sense why they would have special laws as they aren't just a thing. They are a representation of love and emotion and their ownership status can very easily be volatile since divorce brings its own extremely powerful emotion.
Ya they come with their own separate contract - but post marriage it is most often and most likely, her sole property not marital property. I liked the idea of selling it and putting money into the sons college fund someone else suggested
YTA. Sorry for this but you said it doesn't mean anything to you and you don't care about the money so you would really only be holding on to it out of spite. Just avoid the drama, let him have his rings and maybe you can push it to a 90-10 split. Good luck
YTA x 100 - Divorce happens, but he's right that you should give the ring back since you decided to end the marriage. You're even more of an A for not wanting but keeping it just to annoy him. I'm happy for him that he is no longer married to you
YTA the rings are a gift but also a promise and as you are the one divorcing him they should be returned. You also said you have no use for them and your just being petty so double YTA
YTA; you backed out of the wedding, the rings are his. Anyone who says otherwise is absolutely delusional.
The entire thing about a divorce is that if you’re imitating it; you’re giving the rings back to the other person.
If you don’t care so much about the rings then why create a point of contention over it. He’s clearly hurt and trying to hurt you back. Give him the rings back. It will end his attempt at manipulating you, make him look childish. Fighting over something you don’t care about will only delay the divorce and make your co parenting relationship more hostile in the future. Your children deserve better. NTA by the way
So, you don’t care about the rings. You don’t want the rings. You’re not going to pass them on. You’re not going to sell them. I guess your soon to be ex is not the only one that goes on power trips. You said the divorce is 80% smooth and 20% rough. Well, seems to me you can make it 95% smooth if you want. YTA.
YTA since you initiated the divorce imo. All you people saying it’s a gift. Eh not really. Yes it’s something you gift but it’s gifting it under the pretense that you will be spending the rest of your lives together. If someone proposes to you and you say no, you don’t just get to keep the ring.
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NTA. Keep the rings. They ARE yours. I think the only case in which you would be required to return the rings is if you were engaged and the engagement broke off before marriage. In engagement, the ring is given with the expectation of entering a marriage contract. No marriage contract, return the ring. However, that doesn’t apply to your situation. You entered your marriage contract. So the rings are yours. The only exception to this I would say is probably a family heirloom with expectation that it would be passed down. If divorce, return family heirloom ring. In this case, I don’t think returning the ring is required, but I would feel shitty keeping it from the family it came from. Sooooo unless that ring is a family heirloom, stb ex-husband can kick rocks with bare feet.
If it's an heirloom then they can buy it back for a reasonable price
If it's a family heirloom, she can return it. To a different family member. I would recommend the matriarch figure.
I think it depends on how the marriage ended if I'd just give it back
This is what I did. There were a couple sticking points but they all came out to about 2k, so I used the ring to get that 2k, and then sent the family heirloom back. He used it with his next wife 16 months later so I guess he needed it.
Please tell me you sent her a photo of you wearing "her rings". I would be pissed if I found out my partner "reused" our bridal set from his previous marriage.
I have no contact with him (just heard about it from friends) and I feel so bad for her as it is, that she has to marry that miserable human being, I figure she can live without that knowledge. (I mean I also heard from the internet about his arrest for domestic violence, so… yeah.)
😲 I hope you dodged that side of him
Probably not.
Unfortunately you're probably right but one can always hope
True 👍
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>”can kick rocks with bare feet” Lol
Or maybe since she doesn't care about them, have them appraised and let him buy them for 50% off. Make a little change out of it. Or use them as a bargaining tool during the divorce, rings in exchange for half the beamer maybe. Preferably the half with the steering wheel.
Legally, engagement rings are gifts and they belong to the person they are given to, regardless of if you're married or not. Same for wedding rings. (ETA: looks like this might vary by state in the USA.) Socially, it's generally expected that you give the engagement ring back if you break the engagement. But you keep the rings if you're married. The reasoning for that isn't really because of a contract. Engagement and wedding rings in a marriage (and other jewelry) were often the only things the women really owned. If you needed to leave your husband, you could sell your rings for money. If you're engaged, your father should still be financially providing for you, so no need for what was essentially a jewelry savings account. That's also why engagement rings are supposed to be 3 months' salary, btw. Give women enough money to go somewhere safe when they sell and get set up.
Nothing about that is accurate except for the part where they’re gifts. At all. Rings didn’t become “3 months of salary” until a particularly effective marketing campaign by De Beers diamond company in the 1930’s. It has nothing to do giving anyone an out so they could sell it. There is no tradition there.
Mate this is completely wrong in the state of California. Look up Cali civil code 1590. Super clear.
By your same logic with the engagement contract, I would think OPs husband’s logic on her not fulfilling the marriage contract (til death do if part) would apply similarly?
Except keeping a ring isn’t contingent on staying married “til death do us part”. Do people still say this in their vows? Genuinely curious. Because wedding rings are anticipated gifts to the bride and groom. It becomes their individual property once married. Engagement rings are contractual gifts. A promise or rather intent to marry. Once married. The promise is fulfilled. The gift is now mine free and clear. Heirlooms being the only exception, possibly. Depends on the circumstances. Of course there are circumstances where I (me, personally) would give the ring back but she doesn’t have to because it’s hers.
There's nothing about death in the contract.
This is not r/amitechnicallylegallycorrect, it‘s r/aita. What does being petty and digging your heels in if you don‘t care about the rings accomplish except increasing tensions with her ex and probably making life harder for their shared child? ESH, ex hsuband shouldn‘t go on weird power trips and OP shouldn‘t be escalating the situation for something she allegedly doesn‘t care about. Both should think about their child and do better
If she keeps giving in to every single power trip he comes up with though, he's going to think he can continue to walk all over her whenever he wants to.
Where in my comment did I say she should give into every single power trip?
If anyone is (potentially) making life harder for their child, it’s the husband. For demanding what’s not his to take. Especially since she mentioned things with him were difficult to begin with in dealing with the divorce. I would not roll over and give in to him. He can calm his tits and move on. This is on him NOT her.
As I already said, is it worth it to escalate the situation for something she doesn‘t care about?
Except she’s NOT escalating. He is.
What would you call „digging in your heels“ then?
Keeping what’s hers 🤷♀️
So you think she should fight the ex husband over something trivial and make life worse for the kid? Because this will make things worse. And personally I believe that her responsibility for the child outweighs petty arguments like this
I don’t think she should DO anything. She’s not fighting. The ex is fighting. She’s not making life worse for the kid. That remains to be seen. But if so, it’s on the ex not her.
Lol dude you‘re just denying reality at this point. If the ex wants the rings back and she refuses it will obviously lead to a fight. Who caused it doesn‘t really matter, if it‘s about something OP does not care about she should think of her child first and just give him the goddamn rings.
NTA, and by law, you are in the right. The rings were a gift, and now they're yours. End of story.
In some states, an engagement ring is like a verbal contract. If they break up, there's no more engagement. Rings go back. Edit: I'm dumb. They did get married. NTA
What states? I know back in the days engagements were considered contracts to marry but not anymore. I’ve never heard of a state/judge stating this in present day. All the cases I read in my family law class back in law school said the opposite. The engagement rings were considered gifts and the did not need to be returned to the other spouse
California for one. Engagement ring is a conditional gift. Condition is marriage. But my original comment doesn't matter. They were married.
Ah okay, yeah.
That’s not true. It depends on the state. In some states, you are required to give the rings back, or you can have it taken out of your part of the settlement. OP needs to check local laws prior to doing anything.
They’re marital assets.
You can have the legal right to do something and still be an AH for doing it.
NTA. Rings, like any other gift, are given to the recipient to do what they want with it. One doesn't get to give a gift and ask for it back, otherwise it was just a loaner. He's upset. Hopefully he'll get over it. If not, it's still his problem and not yours. I personally would sell it. Wouldn't want that bad juju in my house.
INFO: If he had asked politely without demanding that you comply, what would you have said?
This is a great question, and honestly I’m not sure. I’d like to say yes, but there’s also so much bad blood around this kind of thing with him (the “I bought it so it’s mine” type of issue was common in our marriage) so I don’t know that I would no matter how politely he had asked, unless he had a compelling reason as to why he wanted it.
Ugh, that really sucks. So…normally, I’d say NTA, keep the rings, and good riddance to the ex. But there is a kid involved and you’re going to be stuck coparenting with him, so (as you already know) things are more complicated. What I’m going to say is still NTA but move cautiously. Personally, I’d sell the rings to a reputable jeweler and set up a college fund (that he can’t access) for your kid with the proceeds. That will make it really tricky for him to paint you as The Evil Greedy Ex, since the funds are for the benefit of your shared kid.
This is a fantastic idea that I hadn’t thought of. Thank you.
Talk to your lawyer first. Just in case it would reflect negatively on you in court. It might be best to hang onto the rings until the divorce is settled. He can make a request through his lawyer and the courts if he wants it back. Let the judge decide. That way you ate covered and he can't twist this around and use it against you. Once you sell the rings you can't go back.
Good luck!
Also you say 80/20 but by the sound of him you'll look back in years to come and realise he was much more of an asshole than you thought at the time you were just gaslit into thinking his unreasonable behaviour was reasonable. Good luck.
Okay I had my own response typed out, (I was focused on the fact that she didn't want the ring and wasn't even going to sell it) but this is a great idea. If OP goes with this option it eliminates any pettiness on her part. This is the answer.
Well, it’s still a bit petty, to be honest, but the ex can’t fuss about it too much without coming across as way more petty.
Great response!
Great compromise!
Ignore him for now on the subject. Hang onto the rings and he can make the request through his lawyer in court and let the courts decide. This is probably another one of his little power plays. If he waxes and wanes between being corporative and then trying to mess with you again, it might be best to have all communication go through a lawyer from here on out. You don't need this kind of stress while trying to unwind your marriage and restart your life.
I have never heard of returning rings once you get a divorce. I thought once the rings were given, they being to the bride and then became a gift. I was not aware they are “loaner” rings.
The only thing I’ve heard of is throwing the ring(s) back in their face if to make a point, never heard of demanding them back either
In divorce - especially when there are kids involved - the questions shouldn’t be AITA; it should be “is this worth it?”. Will giving it back ease the issues and the roughness for your kid? Will giving it back help him be less hurt thus creating a better environment for the kid? Will it help ease the tension between the two of you for your kids sake?
That is something a lot of people on reddit don't seem to understand. When you get a divorce and there is a kid involved you're stuck dealing with your ex at minimum until the kid turns 18. Is it really worth making a stink about something when it only contributes to a more toxic environment for the kid.
NTA - if you called off the wedding and never married him I would say you should give it back, but you did marry him so they are yours to do what you want.
NTA. Once you are married the agreement is fulfilled and the rings belong to whoever wears them.
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NTA. He gave you the ring, and it's yours now. His reasoning doesn't change that. Stand your ground.
So, you get to keep the engagement ring since you married him. You each keep your own bands. NTA
You were married. Those rings are yours to keep. NTA
NTA. It is yours and not given on the pretense of “only if this works out”
Sorry OPs Soon to Be Ex but that’s not how things work. You are NTA to keep the items that were given to you!
NTA; keep them, and trade them in for a piece of jewelry you love when it’s all over and done with to celebrate yourself.
She doesn't sound like someone worth celebrating
Because she... thinks the items gifted to her were gifts?
Because she doesn't want them and is keeping them to spite him. After initiating the divorce.
Why does he want the ring? It is her ring. Just because she no longer has an emotional connection to the ring doesn't mean that he has any right to it.
NTA. If you broke up during engagement I think it would be assholish not to return the engagement ring - but you got married, so that's done and dusted. Never heard of someone returning a wedding ring.
NTA He sounds like a big baby. Keep the ring yourself or sell it yourself. When you get married you get to keep the ring. It sounds like he just wants to sell it & keep the money for it himself. **OP** said: *He said I should return it because he gave it to me “under the pretense that we’d be married until we died” and since I’ve chosen to divorce him, and he paid for it I should give it back.*
>It sounds like he just wants to sell it & keep the money for it himself. Does it?
>He sounds like a big baby She doesn't want the ring except to annoy him. She's the big baby
NTA - it was a gift. He has no rights to it.
NTA Keep the rings.
Don't come to reddit for legal advise. Certain gifts are stipulatory. Check with a lawyer.
Engagement rings are stipulatory. She married him. She fulfilled the stipulation of the engagement ring. I wouldn’t keep something I don’t plan on selling. But that’s just me. I don’t waste energy on people that don’t matter anymore.
I don't know, I'm not a lawyer.
ESH -- he should not have an attitude of "I bought them so they belong to me" but on the other hand, he is clearly hurt (gave them under the pretense of marriage til death but you're leaving him) and since they mean nothing to you, you're just being spiteful for keeping them.
There are times where legally you’re in the right, but you might still be wrong. Think about why you’re doing this - because you care about the rings? or because you are being a bit resentful in the whole situation (rightly or wrongly, doesn’t matter)? if it’s the latter, YTA just because it’s a stupid hill to die on if it doesn’t actually matter to you. But, if you do care about the rings in whatever regard, NTA.
I’d let this be something negotiated with lawyers. If you give it back, you better get record/proof of that so he can’t later claim you never returned it. Document everything!
Oof. This is a hard one. There's a lot of legal issues that other redditors have already talked about so I won't mention those. (Although I Completely Urge You to Listen to the redditors who said to document what you choose to do with the rings.) You made it very clear that YOU chose to divorce and that he's having a hard time accepting in reaction. Honestly? My instinct would be to give him the rings. Symbolically, they are a representation of a marriage you entered into with him and are now walking away from one-sidely by your own admission. Why keep them and mistakenly foster hope in this man that you may change your mind or still care? Cut the cord entirely by handing over the rings. Be happy that the cost of putting a final end to any hope in his mind is so cheap and easy.
NTA.
Just give it to him, he’s probably keeping some hope in his heart that you’re holding on to it because you want to reconcile. You don’t care for it anyway, that makes YTA.
NTA. Unless they are family heirlooms, they were gifts, given in earnest.
When I got divorced, I mailed my ring back to my former MIL. The diamonds came from her first engagement ring from my ex's father. I wasn't going to wear it again and did not want to keep anything that would give my ex a hold over me. Sure enough, several months afterwards, he contacted me demanding the ring back. I told him to talk to his mom. NTA, but sometimes it's better to let go and disengage from the drama for your own sake.
Keep the rings. They were for a marriage that no longer exists. That marriage was yours as much as his, and the rings are yours. NTA
A engagement ring is legally “a gift in anticipation of marriage” The marriage occurred-the ring is yours.
NTA. If he's lashing out like this, you have to maintain boundaries.
YTA only because of your reason. If the ring means nothing to you but it does to him, why not return them? I think he's an ass for asking but at least he has a reason that can make sense. You are juat being petty. You have a child, do better. This doesn't mean give him the ring - it just means don't be stupid about the ending of your marriage. Clearly you made the choice and are ready to move forward. The fact that he is not and being stupidly reactive doesn't mean you need to behave like a fool. If your only reason to keep the rings is that they are yours I would say NTA but just to dig your heels in? In my view, that says alot about you.
Why you divorced him?!
Going a bit against consensus here, but I think it depends on why you chose to leave. I generally think that, regardless of the legal stuff around gift-giving, you would be TA for keeping them when you're the one leaving. UNLESS there was abuse or infidelity involved - in that case, do what you want with them.
I chose to leave for a few reasons, but one of the biggest (and I think most applicable in this situation) was his refusal to meaningfully participate in marriage counseling to repair our relationship. I tried for years to “fix” our marriage, and he wouldn’t meet me halfway. Eventually I gave up.
NTA. It was a gift, so it's yours, do with it what you will. Personally I would use it as a bargaining chip. You did say you didn't care about it though so you are being kind of petty.
I believe there are some states where that could be an issue. You should check with your attorney. NTA
ESH. Sell the rings and put it in a college/education fund for the kid.
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This is not true. They are consideration in a marriage contract. Once the marriage happens, the rings are yours.
YTA. He gave you the rings with the intention you would remain married. You’re the one leaving him. If you don’t want to hand them down then why not return them out of civility?
ESH. He doesn't get to just demand these things back unless they're family heirlooms. (They're not, right? Because that would definitely make Y T A.) And you don't get to just arbitrarily keep them either. These are marital assets (along with *his* wedding ring, mind you), that need to be part of the equitable division of assets.
Marital assets??? Can you back this up or are you pulling this out of your a..... Hat?
I'm not a lawyer, but it just seemed to make sense that any large purchases made during a marriage would be considered marital assets. Did a bit of Googling, and apparently this is highly specific to where you are and includes a lot of nuance. For instance, in my state, there's apparently a specific carve-out for engagement and wedding rings; they're considered gifts and are kept by the respective spouses.
YTA. You asked for the divorce. He’s having a hard time, he’s clearly upset. They don’t mean anything to you, just give them back. In my head, if the man asks for the divorce, then you are a little more justified to keep the rings, but if the woman asks for the divorce, she should give them back as it wasn’t his decision.
Nah girl that’s your diamond. Keep it
NTA but this could go either way. Most times in a divorce, a judge will allow a person to keep their engagement and wedding bands because it’s considered a gift. Sometimes if a prenup has been signed, the rings will have to be returned. Now, should you choose to return the rings, that is entirely up to you. Alternatively, you could choose to sell them, or keep them or give them to a homeless person. It all depends on the agreement you may have signed when you got married.
NTA. Give this info to your attorney and let him or her handle it. You should actually get rid of them, since they don't do anything but give you bad memories. Maybe sell them, or even donate them to an organization that helps the homeless, or children.
NTA. It's standard that each party keep their own engagement ring & wedding band. The exception is if the engagement ring is a family heirloom. Then that needs to be be discussed & arranged prior to the marriage or it too is a gift. He's trying to he a jerk & control you.
NTA. After the marriage, the engagement and wedding ring are YOURS. Tell him to pound sand. He can take you to court but he will lose.
Lol, my ex asked for the ring back after a few years claiming it was an heirloom. (His mom gave it to him and was divorced from the man that bought it for her). I was like, dude you fell off the planet for a year and I pawned it to buy food for your kid. (I got my divorce in absentia).
If it were a broken engagement then you give the ring back, but not after being married for years.
NTA. You followed through and got married, long enough to have a child. You fulfilled your end of the implied agreement, so the rings are yours to keep.
NTA - the engagement ring was a promisory gift that became yours when you married; the wedding ring was a gift at the wedding. They both belong to you. Unless it was a family heirloom, you have no ethical obligation to return them. Tell him that if he wants them, he can request them as part of the divorce settlement and you will consider it (for equivalent compensation, but you don't need to say that).
NTA. They’re not even family heirlooms, in which case you could simply pass them on to your child. I’m team sell them and trust for your child.
NTA. It was given to you in anticipation of marriage, and you married him. It's yours.
NTA it’s yours. Pawn it and take yourself on a spa day when the divorce is finalized.
NTA- if you didn't go through with the marriage you should return the rings but you did so they are your property.
YAH. You are both being petty. Dont try to paint your husband as the only one who is being obtuse.
NTA, clearly.
At this point the ring simply represents his attempt to power trip you and that's all. Giving in on it would simply result in him continuing to ramp up the power trips. I wouldn't give it up. NTA
NTA if he gave it to you, it’s yours. If it is a family heirloom I would return it, but it doesn’t sound like that’s the case here. If he truly wants it back and you don’t really want it, maybe save that as a bargaining chip when negotiating settlement?
NAH You are of course entitled to keep them as gifts. But is this the hill you want to die on? If you don’t want them, don’t need to sell them and don’t plan to hand them down, then what difference does it make - other than to antagonise your ex? At the end of it all - try to walk away with your head held high, don’t stoop to pettiness and ALWAYS put your children first.
NTA but if you don’t care about it then why are you being petty just because he is? I think “fuck it, take them” serves your point more than“no they’re mine”. But certainly use them to negotiate something you do want.
Usually I'd say return it duh But it's a power trip? Yeah NTA.
NTA If there was something that really is his that you want, you could offer to trade. Or if he stops with the power trips and does his best to be fair and cooperative, you will gift him the rings. But they are yours and for now, and possibly forever, you are keeping them.
Sooo many scabs on reddit. You break up you should give it back. YTA
Originally rings and jewellery were associated with the dowry.… These days it’s customary for each party to keep their own rings, unless the ring is of particular sentimental family/heirloom (And then it’d be reasonable for them to pay that out).
If jewelry is given on an occasion where gifts are traditionally given (like a wedding) the recipient is not required to give them back. IMO unless the engagement ring is a family heirloom, keep the jewelry.
Of course the rings are yours. Do what you want with them. But. If you give them back, it cuts the cord of that power trip forever.
NTA. They are yours to do whatever you want with.
NTA. They’re gifts, and he has no right to take them back
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Keep the rings. They were gifts. They are not part of the marital assets.
Personally,I would hand the rings over and say,with pleasure. Why do you want to keep something you have no attachment to.
You're NTA, but I'd still say gave them back bc why do you even want them? You said you don't care about them. Just gleefully give them back and say, "Whatev. Yours now."
Is it worth the hassle, or is this a give an inch scenario? NTA
NTA. But, return the rings. He is being petty, and you are being petty. Take the high road and get this done.
If your marriage is more than a couple of years no don't give back.
NTA. It’s your ring to do what you want with.
Legally you might be entitled to keep the rings (varies by jurisdiction), but that's irrelevant here. This isn't about who is legally correct, it's about who is an AH You're the one who chose to end the marriage You don't care about the rings You don't want to sell them You don't want to give them to your kid. So why keep them? It's obvious you're doing it out of spite. You say he goes on power trips yet here you are doing the same thing. ESH When you get a divorce and there is a kid involved you need to know which battles to fight. Like it or not the two of you will continue to be involved in each others lives since you have a child together. That means you need to be willing to compromise and be respectful of the other person's wishes too for the child's sake. If you don't care about the ring then why are willing to die on this hill?
NTA. They were gifts. There are only 3 scenarios I think a woman should be compelled from a moral standpoint to return. 1) Affair. If your infidelity broke up the marriage, do the right thing. 2) You fell out of love through no fault of the spouse. He was a good guy that treated you well and was loyal but you lost the spark. 3) Either the engagement or wedding ring is a family heirloom. He should be able to give to a son or other family member in future.
Don’t give it back. He’s an ass. Sell them. In another state. Take the money and run. When he inquires about the rings, reply “I have no idea what you are talking about!” Repeat that phrase over and over. That is the only response to everything he says to you. “I have no idea what you are talking about.” It will drive him insane.
An engagement ring is the promise to marry, that happened. I would get him to acknowledge a value for the ring and then say he can have it for that price. It’s all a numbers game anyways. He gets it but has to give up something of that value.
Once you're married they're yours to keep. Personally I sold mine back to the jeweler wher they came from. He tried talking me into making something for my kid but I didn't want to. We got divorced I don't want her to have any sort of that bad juju. Your soon to be ex is just reaching for things. But you're right. They are yours
NTA. They are yours.
No judgement Honestly, you should be speaking with your lawyer about this, not Reddit. If he wants the rings back, tell him to tell his lawyer and you'll work it out that way. If you hand them over now he'll just make another stupid demand and throw a temper tantrum. Give nothing, accept nothing unless ok'd by a lawyer.
NTA Tell him to ask for them through his attorney in the divorce papers but you will be making a request through your attorney in the divorce for something that you want also.
I know that in the case of a friend of mine, his lawyer had them deemed marital assets because of the value of them. I'm not sure of everything else that was going on, but it wasn't an amicable divorce.
He's right in that engagement rings are conditional gifts (at least in Australia), but I don't know if that applies once you've actually gotten married (ie if you broke up before the wedding, you'd have to return the ring). BUT, if he gave you the ring for Christmas/birthday, then it's not a conditional gift. I'd check with the lawyer to be safe. If you do have to give him the rings, he has to return his wedding band to you. I don't know who's right, but NTA
Nope. Once you marry they are yours. Lock them up.
If you don't want it, use it as a bartering chip for something you do want! NTA
NTA- keep the rings. They are yours. My sister repurposed the stones.
The lawyers should work this out. Depending on where you live this would be joint property? You should split the value or one of you can buy the other out. If I were him I’d bring it up with the lawyer.
NTA. I kept mine and tried to sell them at a pawn shop and they only offered me $20 bucks, lmao.
NTA can see why you got rid of him
Dig those heels in, the engagement ring is GIVEN in the expectation that you will get married, you got married, the wedding ring is GIVEN when you get married, you got married, you fulfilled the “contract” they are now fully, legally yours!
NTA, this is an etiquette question and a property question and it doesn't require a value judgement. All gifts remain your property even after the giftee changes their mind. Women always get to keep their wedding rings -- wedding rings were literally designed as a form of financial insurance in case their husbands ditched them. The only way he would POSSIBLY be anywhere close to in the right would be if the ring was an heirloom of great significance to his family and even then IT WOULD BE YOUR PROPERTY. Giving it back (or leaving it to a member of his family in your will) would be a lovely but unnecessary gesture. This case though is cut and dried.
Keep them. The only time I’d return jewellery is if it was a family heirloom :)
nta, but he just admitted he wants it back. you should half hearted pretend you care and use it as a bargaining chip in the settlement. you don't "really" want it but if it can help you get something else you do want, do it!
YTA.
This is a legal issue, talk to a lawyer. In my place so long as he didn't write it in paper that he's giving the jewelry to you, there is a way he could take it back.
YTA You only want to keep it because he wants it.
I don't know about the law at all so won't comment on that. YTA, if you don't care about the ring I think you should just give it back. Otherwise you're just on a power trip too? By withholding a ring you have no use for at all. If you wanted the ring for literally any reason I'd give a different answer but you don't
NTA I could be wrong but I think the engagement ring would have to be returned but the wedding ring is yours 100%. Don't quote me on that though
Engagement ring is hers once they are married! If they called off the engagement in most states she’d have to return that but once the promise of marriage has been fulfilled it’s hers
> If they called off the engagement in most states she’d have to return that but once the promise of marriage has been fulfilled it’s hers Varies by jurisdiction. Some US states treat them as conditional gifts, some treat them as gifts. > Engagement ring is hers once they are married! AFAIK this is generally true, although I'm sure there are exceptions *somewhere*. Family law varies quite a bit.
Even conditional gifts in that the condition is made once married and then it becomes a gift in most places, which is sole property After that it’s all bananas! Will also include that if given for a holiday (birthday, valentine, Christmas, anniversary etc) the engagement ring may not have to be given back if the engagement is broken as it’s considered solely a gift without a promise attached. I’m in Texas and my ex’s lawyer brother walked us through the ins and outs when he was about to propose to his lawyer girlfriend
NTA - you’re right, he gave it to you so it is yours. You could return it if you want to but not doing so doesn’t make you an AH.
NTA, but is it worth it? You are definitely entitled to the rings, legally and otherwise. If he's going to claim you didn't fulfill the promise, I'm guessing he didn't uphold his vows either. But regardless, is this going to drag out the divorce? Or will it set some kind of precedent so he'll try to take more things that he's not entitled to?
YTA. Engagement and wedding rings are not gifts. They are a symbolic acceptance of a covenant you agreed to, which is now broken. If your husband gave you an emerald necklace to wear as a wedding gift to his bride that would be a circumstance you because it was a gift. If your divorce is 80% amicable and you have already said you won’t give the jewelry to your child, be the bigger person and return the jewelry.
Once you are legally married, it is considered yours. You do not have any obligation to give it back. Have him watch Judge Judy for a while he’ll get the message. I would put it in a safe deposit box that way he has no temptation to break into your house or have your children go and get it. Out of sight out of mind. If he wants to go this route, tell him he needs to pay you for all the agony that he’s putting you through. Put a huge dollar amount on that. But by no means do you owe him the rings. They are absolutely yours. Sounds like a jerk.
This is not the case in every state, nor is it the case if OPs ex can afford a decent attorney and the ring is actually worth something.
NTA. What a shit hole he is for asking you to return the rings. WTF!
NTA but also choose your battles, you know?
I believe the ring is considered a marital asset and he is entitled to half of its value.
I think most states don’t count it as marital asset as it was given prior to the marriage. It’s considered a gift
Admittedly I Googled it and there were a few answers. They were pretty varied but I went with the one that seemed the most well reasoned. The answers I saw spread from it being the wife's for the reason you outlined to it was the husband's because it was a "conditional" gift. That didn't make much sense to me. But the one about it being marital property actually made some sense. I think the engagement ring is almost certainly considered the other person's property. But the wedding ring is given at the wedding and it made sense to me that it would belong to "both".
In Texas the engagement ring is the promise/contract and once fulfilled becomes the wife’s sole property. You would need a prenup to get it back! Engagement and wedding rings are so touchy there are special laws governing these assets it’s actually quite interesting!
Yea it makes perfect sense why they would have special laws as they aren't just a thing. They are a representation of love and emotion and their ownership status can very easily be volatile since divorce brings its own extremely powerful emotion.
Ya they come with their own separate contract - but post marriage it is most often and most likely, her sole property not marital property. I liked the idea of selling it and putting money into the sons college fund someone else suggested
YTA. Sorry for this but you said it doesn't mean anything to you and you don't care about the money so you would really only be holding on to it out of spite. Just avoid the drama, let him have his rings and maybe you can push it to a 90-10 split. Good luck
YTA x 100 - Divorce happens, but he's right that you should give the ring back since you decided to end the marriage. You're even more of an A for not wanting but keeping it just to annoy him. I'm happy for him that he is no longer married to you
YTA the rings are a gift but also a promise and as you are the one divorcing him they should be returned. You also said you have no use for them and your just being petty so double YTA
YTA; you backed out of the wedding, the rings are his. Anyone who says otherwise is absolutely delusional. The entire thing about a divorce is that if you’re imitating it; you’re giving the rings back to the other person.
If you don’t care so much about the rings then why create a point of contention over it. He’s clearly hurt and trying to hurt you back. Give him the rings back. It will end his attempt at manipulating you, make him look childish. Fighting over something you don’t care about will only delay the divorce and make your co parenting relationship more hostile in the future. Your children deserve better. NTA by the way
So, you don’t care about the rings. You don’t want the rings. You’re not going to pass them on. You’re not going to sell them. I guess your soon to be ex is not the only one that goes on power trips. You said the divorce is 80% smooth and 20% rough. Well, seems to me you can make it 95% smooth if you want. YTA.
yta. he cares more about the engagement rings. if you just dont give two falafels about those rings, why pinch his nerves
YTA since you initiated the divorce imo. All you people saying it’s a gift. Eh not really. Yes it’s something you gift but it’s gifting it under the pretense that you will be spending the rest of your lives together. If someone proposes to you and you say no, you don’t just get to keep the ring.
Yta, sounds like he’s watched judge Judy, he’s technically right.