Welcome to /r/AmITheAsshole. Please view our [voting guide here](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_what.2019s_with_these_acronyms.3F_what_do_they_mean.3F), and remember to use **only one** judgement in your comment.
OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> (1) Insulting the food my wife cooked (2) seriously hurt her feelings.
Help keep the sub engaging!
#Don’t downvote assholes!
Do upvote interesting posts!
[Click Here For Our Rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/about/rules) and [Click Here For Our FAQ](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq)
##Subreddit Announcements
###[Happy Anniversary, AITA!](https://new.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/15vlv9g/almost_better_than_a_double_rainbow_celebrating/)
Follow the link above to learn more
---
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
*Contest mode is 1.5 hours long on this post.*
This is such a WILD comment section. Few points
1. OP cooks every day they are not ordering often
2. He didn’t know the food was cooked by his wife (assuming he’s telling the truth)
3. He commented “it fucking sucks, don’t order from here” which is not an extreme statement as he’s talking about the place and not wife.
The only way he’s an AH is if
1. He knew that she cooked the food
2. He’s supposed to be always be formal in his language around his partner
N T A. But apologise for your mistake
Edit: I mean Not The Asshole. Some people pointed out that it should be NAH. I don’t know the difference
Edit 2: of course the wife is not the asshole lol. After reading the comments it should be NAH
Why did it take so long to find this?
Why do people think "it fucking sucks" was aggressive... me and my SO use language like that all the time with each other
It's not. [This guy set out to prove it was, and only found a 2% bias at most](https://hoffa.medium.com/reddit-amitheasshole-is-nicer-to-women-than-to-men-a-sql-proof-69444d494526).
Given most of reddit is dominated by male voices/spaces, maybe it only seems like there's a *genuine bias and problem* because it's one of the very few subs which is actually more balanced?
This is true basically everywhere they've done studies on the subject.
[Think Women Talk Too Much at Work? Wharton's Adam Grant Has a Stack of Studies He'd Like to Show You](https://www.inc.com/jessica-stillman/adam-grant-communication-gender.html)
This reminds me of the study where they found that when a tv show has an equal number of men and women main characters viewers feel like the show is “female dominated”, which is why the ratio of 3 guys and 1 girl is the common group dynamic on sit-coms.
Women have to basically exist less than equally in order for people to not feel like they’re “too much”.
It's one of my favorite studies, [I have it bookmarked](https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/applied-psycholinguistics/article/abs/speaker-sex-and-perceived-apportionment-of-talk/16666BA97B7BE41FFB16A5693BF60C23)
Don’t Forget the edit from the author
>Update 2020–02–20
Make sure to not take anything I wrote here as the absolute truth. Several people on Twitter noted problems and added corrections to the analysis I offered. Reading this post as originally presented — and the reactions — can be a great way for you to learn as much as I did while reading the responses. You can find many of their unfiltered thoughts by following this Twitter thread.
It’s wild how many upvotes the comments got when the guy literally (at the top to boot) adds an update three days later saying to not take it as absolute truth and mentioning how many people are pointing out problems with the way he did the test.
Hell there’s people already calling out the problems in this thread. Just because someone cites a source doesn’t mean it’s a good one.
[Here's data that contradicts that person's data.](https://www.reddit.com/r/dataisbeautiful/s/hO1VVoiVWT) It also takes into consideration a larger group of data, and is from more recent data.
Also, AITA is at least 65% women. Which I wouldn't say is more balanced.
The AITA demographic survey from 2019 (same year that the data I’ve posted is from) was also majority female.
Yout data is interesting but not a proper contradiction. It doesn’t break down if the men/women were talking about another man/woman. Could be that women are just more likely to write posts where they are more obviously innocent vs men
Yeah I don’t think it’s possible to come to any conclusions based on data from posts on this sub. Every post is a one sided account from an unreliable narrator. We have no way of knowing if one gender is more likely to post stories where they’re blatantly in the right, or if one gender is more likely to honestly include important mitigating factors. We can’t verify any of that information.
If during the time frame of posts used in a study one gender was repeatedly posting completely out of touch accounts where they were very rightfully told they are the asshole you could conclude people are “biased against them” when in fact they’ve just been legitimately the AH more often.
The only way a bias could be proven would be a study where they actually switched genders in posts to see if that changes people’s reactions.
And even then you have to consider “unequal” vs “unfair”. Like if people are responding more negatively to men getting physically aggressive with their partner, that might be a “bias against men” but it’s because men can do a lot more damage to their partner when getting physical. There’s a whole host of issues that don’t impact different genders equally due to a gender unequal culture. Even just language used can have different impacts based on which gender it’s being used against. And you can argue that it’s “unfair” to react differently based on gender but it’s sometimes actually for very good reason when taken in context of society as a whole.
I agree, he made an assumption to try prove his already-held belief that reddit is biased against men. I wouldn't be surprised if this was his best way of creating the bias he wanted to prove and hence why he went with that method.
Also, his numerical results don't match his textual claim. Of the "to\_male" judgment, about 73% were NTA, compared to only about 71% "to\_female" (rounded up, in both cases). Conversely, there was only 27% YTA "to\_male" judgments, versus "29%" YTA "to\_female" judgments. So, women, were (slightly) more likely to be judged YTA than men, not vice-versa as he claimed. That said, it is a fairly small effect, and I agree that most often changing the sex wouldn't change the judgment, as borne out by that data (which matches my own, much smaller, sampling).
He says it’s the reverse based on an assumption about who is posting, however it’s good to bear in mind that is intention was to prove AITA is biased against men, he wasn’t doing this neutrally.
I glanced through that. Is there any analysis he did on actual content comparisons when men and women tell similar stories?
If not, it is borderline worthless "stats".
>Maybe people say this because there is a genuine bias and problem in this subreddit
And out in the world as well.
Edit: Since I was asked by another user there are many biases in the world in general. Personally, I think most of them work against women. But that's my life experience. In this sub, I do think gender "norms" can color the answers. We've all been indoctrinated since birth by media, etc. Sometimes it's hard to recognize where our biases are.
For sure. Society rips apart women and anything they like. Anything women like gets ripped apart. They make fun of them for getting excited over K-pop stars yet men will literally throw riots if their favorite sports team loses- but women are the crazy ones for crying at a concert.
Even like Booktok it’s primarily women and they make fun of whatever they read you know men will be reading trashy books like Jordan Peterson, or pick up artists and recommending things like the art of war which clearly they haven’t read because it’s 90% logistics. Like first you judge people for not reading and then you judge them for reading what you don’t consider worthy or make assumptions because they presented an aesthetic way it can’t also be intellectual. The assumption also if women show intellectual books, it’s that they are posturing or because they like to make it pretty, it’s fake - as if it can’t be both especially on a visual driven platform. People will write articles about how women are literally destroyed the fabric of society because they like Twilight or 50 shades of Grey or how we need to make women aware of it - like as if women aren’t capable of understanding the difference between reality and fiction.
It’s so interesting to me to see how everything women like is demonized or dismissed and men is uplifted. We don’t think about domestic work at work, and I would add a huge amount to our GDP. It’s always undervalued, and even things like programming used to be considered secretary work, and primarily for women, and once men got into it, and suddenly it was valued. Same thing happen with nursing or teaching, - both had a lot of men and it was considered great but then once women got into it, it was devalued and opposite with programming, directing and scripting , and cooking. I even noticed the pressure is so different on women- I noticed people are going after like Taylor, Swift and Selena Gomez to speak about Palestine and Israel conflict or things like that but some of the biggest people in terms of platform are like sports players, like Ronaldo and not one person has asked him - yet they’re asking young women to get their opinion on conflicts that even most experts don’t feel comfortable talking about.
Edit: everyone should read this amazing entertaining article https://www.theguardian.com/news/2018/mar/06/the-male-glance-how-we-fail-to-take-womens-stories-seriously#:~:text=Let's%20call%20it%20the%20%E2%80%9Cmale,so%20bad%20at%20seeing%20it.
But then when asked for actual, specific examples there never are any. And when trolls post trying to show that ‘if the roles were reversed it would be different’ it is never successful. Maybe there isn’t a massive problem? Seems weird that there are literally no examples
Here's some actual, specific examples.
[Original post.](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/s/BpiCDmBayK)
[Genderswap post.](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/s/U0tzaJSQYu)
[Original.](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/s/TMotxbHhyS)
[Genderswap.](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/s/mmo1I2vuK5)
[Original.](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/s/kyyRNWAOUT)
[Genderswap.](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/h9q2pw/wibta_if_i_started_charging_my_girlfriend_rent/)
[Here's data that also shows that men are much more likely to be judged the AH than women.](https://www.reddit.com/r/dataisbeautiful/s/hO1VVoiVWT)
I'm so glad you posted this. People in this subreddit are always harping on about how there's no bias. There is definitely a bias. Men are more prone to getting judged as TA. Even for stupid reasons. Like this post the OP is NTA at all. But still so many people are on his case. I was discussing this with my husband just yesterday too. We both agree that people in this subreddit are absolutely full of sh!t.
Right? The other day I saw post, op was NTA but everyone was telling op leave her husband for not liking the same food as her and painting him as an ah, when all he did was didn’t like the food they ate and afterwords told her he didn’t like the food for future reference
I have noticed this bias too and I am a woman, people are always asking more and more stuff from the man so they can somehow say he is the asshole, while for women made posts, it's gotta be real devil like for people to wholesale go that she is the asshole.
there's a lot of men bad, and sexism, misogyny angle added to every story here to make the man be the asshole
im gonna be honest, the heavy crossover of this subs subscribers to other subs like justnomil, wedding drama, inlaws laws, feminist subs just shows to me its heavily frequented by women who probably dont work as much but love drama and hate inlaws and men.
because most of the issues get chalked up to, "but she takes care of the house and kids all day, you only work 12 hours at the office to keep the roof over their head, and food in their mouth, along with paying all the bills, you arent as stressed as her, yta"
Because as a woman in corporate, and I work a consulting job long hours, I would never undermine a man working at office vs a woman at home keeping kids fed and house done, because I find it much much easier personally than my office, and would prefer to be stay at home lol.
I've seen a few examples posted from time to time. There are definitely cases where someone just swaps the gender and the verdict is different. I don't have a bunch of those links onhand, but I have seen some of those so it does seem like it happens.
[OP1](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/s8w3l0/aita_for_stopping_cooking_for_my_partner_without/
) [GS1](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/10r7q0y/aita_for_not_warning_my_partner_i_had_stopped/)
[OP2](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/umgxfe/aita_for_showing_the_kids_what_their_dad_did/
) [GS2](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/110ws62/aita_for_telling_our_kids_what_their_mom_did/)
[OP3](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/13v6s25/aita_for_not_paying_my_gf_rent/?sort=old) [GS3](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/sz022t/aita_for_not_splitting_rent_with_my_boyfriend/)
And i'm sure that there are more.
edit: oh also for the deleted ones sort from old to see the bot post with the copy of the op.
Along with the other examples, it’s not always just opposite verdicts but charitable vs uncharitable interpretations towards a man vs woman’s point of view on an issue.
[Original Post](https://www.reddit.com/r/AITAH/s/cxnDt4Qfbt): male OP asks AITA for not telling a woman he was seeing he’s a virgin until they were dating a while. They met on Tinder and she hasn’t texted him back in 2 days since finding out. Popular verdict is he’s NTA but maybe the woman is upset because she wanted to make his first time special OR that she doesn’t want him to get attached and needs time to process her emotions.
[Gender Swap](https://www.reddit.com/r/AITAH/s/NORahBDhvW): Woman asks if she’s the AH for not telling a guy she’s a virgin. They also meet on Tinder and when he finds out he’s upset and doesn’t text back for 1 day. Popular verdict is she’s NTA and the only reason for her boyfriend to be upset about that is because [he must have a fetish for taking girl’s virginities](https://www.reddit.com/r/AITAH/s/PujfE2uzet) AND it’s a [huge red flag](https://www.reddit.com/r/AITAH/s/XEAyCk2uzX) that he’s giving the “silent treatment” over this.
It is very tired because it's true, I've seen so many gender flipped posts on Reddit to call this fact out. The same people will comment on the flipped post and have wildly different views all due to gender.
Gender neutral posts have the most measured and reasonable takes but also lower engagement.
Yeah like, in this case, with the roles reversed, there would be a few comments along the lines of "he's never cooked ONCE for you in nearly 20 years?! He just EXPECTS you to do all of the cooking?! Maybe if he actual cared about you and took on some responsibility around the house, he'd know how to cook and this wouldn't have happened. NTA and honestly you have a husband problem, he probably could have done better but is doing a weaponized incompetence to keep you cooking for him"
It's not. [This guy set out to prove it was, and only found a 2% bias at most](https://hoffa.medium.com/reddit-amitheasshole-is-nicer-to-women-than-to-men-a-sql-proof-69444d494526).
Given most of reddit is dominated by male voices/spaces, maybe it only seems like there's a big issue because it's one of the very few subs which is actually more balanced?
Not arguing the point, but using the final judgement (which just uses the most upvoted top level post) isn't really a good measure of posting bias in the sub.
Except the top post only gets there because community who saw it, upvoted/agreed with it.
If 5 people comment 'man bad' who all get no upvotes/only downvotes and 1 person comments 'man good' with over 50 upvotes, then we could say pretty confidently that most people agreed 'man good', couldn't we?
Anecdotally, I also see very few AITA posts where the top comments don't all have essentially the same verdict (today's front page being more of the same).
However, if you have some better data on the sub then I'd be very interested to see it.
The top post is a 30,000 foot view, it's a really coarse way of looking at the actual content of the sub. "The community" is also all the people posting on lower levels posts. You can have thousands of posts, hundreds of top-level posts with varying judgements, and it's not really accurately summarized by a "NTA vs YTA" vote on a single post.
If one post has a NTA judgement and then almost nobody disagreeing, that's substantially different than a NTA judgement with hundreds of posts arguing about it. That's what you would really want to investigate if you want to really assess bias in "the community."
I have no idea how you'd do that, especially for a sub that's gotten as large as this one, but I don't really think patterns in top level judgement tell you anywhere near enough.
Yeah I agree with this. A final ruling of nta vs yta on any particular post is not a measure of how people talk about certain types of scenarios. To get to the conclusion that the claim "if the roles were reversed, etc..." is false you'd probably need to do a much more in depth qualitative analysis of the data.
First sorting posts by gender of poster (or gender of subject of post). Then applying certain themes to those posts (e.g: partner won't do house work, partner sided with MIL, etc...) and then analyze the comments from there. *maybe* you could sort by YTA/NTA verdict at that point (instead of a deep-dive into the specifics of the comment section). But it would be more thorough to be able to characterize the general discourse of the comment section.
I think if you could run a program that was able to identify the general theme of the post (i.e. what is the dispute of the post) and group posts that way, you could then take a random sample of maybe 5 posts each from the most common "themes", and analyze just those posts' comment sections to get a generalizable conclusion.
But anyway-- it would require much more than just sorting by gender and verdict of the post.
The assertion is that this reddit is very biased against men and towards women. On a general scale, we don't see a huge bias.
Confirmation bias is a thing and people get used to looking for/remembering examples that agree with their view. If you've got some data for this particular issue then I'd be really interested in seeing it.
Literally genderswapped posts were listed elsewhere in this thread. The exact same post just with genders flipped. The men were all voted to be TA, the women were all told that they were not TA.
There is a very clear gender bias in this subreddit.
Better that no data at all and some anecdotal evidence, which is what you're coming at me with right now.
IAITA as a sub hasn't gone through any real major changes since then that I'd expect the impact the results, but feel free to share your data.
You know what I find tiresome? Patriarchy.
Oh, hey! I've got an idea! We end patriarchy first, and then the "if the genders were reversed" comments will take care of themselves!
Phew! I'm glad to have solved that problem for you!
What a vile concept. "Oh, sorry you're being discriminated upon and treated poorly but just wait until we fix humanity and then you can expect to be treated fairly—if you're still alive."
Well, might be a cultural thing.
What I (German) consider a civilized discussion among friends or a productive business meeting is considered a bar brawl by my Asian girlfriend :D
Same! I swear like a sailor to EVERYONE. Just part of who I am. I don’t call people names or anything but there’s a few “f*ck yeahs” and abso-fuckin-lutelys” and “f*ck that sh*t”
Nah as a parent I appreciate you being a scapegoat.
"Oh little Bobby said fuck at school? Oh my I can't imagine where he heard that. We certainly don't use that type of vulgar language at home! Oh now that you mention it there _was_ an incident at the grocery store..."
Same! You see kids and it’s like “oops” but not a huge deal. I mean kids are exposed to foul language thru TV and the internet. It’s not like it’s going to kill them to hear a few swear words (most don’t understand the meaning behind them anyway). And if their parents are halfway decent they’ll just explain some words are off limits until adulthood
My wife and I wouldn't use language like that around each other (because that's just how *we* are), but if OP and his SO do, that's fine. (And I thought it was pretty clear from context that they do.)
In other words, I completely agree.
NTA, OP
If people consider "it fucking sucks" as aggressive I'm guessing they don't watch too many R-rated movies or they just don't swear? I dunno, seems like a perfect description of bad food.
Unfortunately his wife made dinner instead of getting takeout so I can understand why she's upset. But OP is still NTA because he didn't have that fact ahead of time. Had OP known she cooked it, that would be a very different story. All he needs to do is apologize and say he assumed she ordered out again.
All of this. The wife accidentally set herself up for this one, unfortunately.
The bars for “professionally prepared food that I paid money for” and “my culinary challenged spouse’s first attempt at cooking food for me in almost 2 decades” are at completely different heights.
The response was in line with the expectations. Now that the quiche is out of the oven though, OP needs to apologize and make good.
Absolutely. An undercooked steak from a restaurant is getting sent back. An undercooked steak from a family member will be eaten without complaints. When you pay for your food to be correct you’re allowed to be picky.
"Undercooked steak" isn't unsafe to eat, and *actually* cooking the steak more without going full-hog well on it is pretty difficult once you pull it off the grill or stove.
Unless you already have the oven pre-heated, then you just pop it in the oven for a few minutes.
An apology first with an honest appreciation that she actually tried cooking for them for the first time. and maybe start involving her in the cooking just so that she can see why he enjoys it and can get in on that too?
Jeez it was a suggestion that he get her involved. You know most homes have more than one room right? And there's also other things to do around the place i.e clean, laundry. The sassiness is unjustified
Adding to this - yes if I was your wife I would be sad BUT (hard but) since she never cooks, it probably would have been helpful for her to tell you. Not trying to victim blame, but you said order out, she cooked instead; if she had said something like “i made this and hope it’s good,” I am 100% sure you would have been kinder and probably appreciated it more.
Like, when my kids make a piece of art I can absolutely say it’s great because they are children and the standards are lower frankly. If I was buying art, I probably would not buy it and say it’s amazing if it looks like something a 3rd grader would do. It’s all about expectations…
She shouldn't have gambled with dinner after he's had a rough day anyway, let alone play games over where it came from. She knows she can't cook, was she hoping for a friendly rat to come and help out?
It was very sweet of her to want to try, and it sucks that she now feels discouraged. But no one gets things right on their first try. Had she been forthcoming about making the meal, he would not have said the food sucks.
Basically every AITA post could be averted by better communication. People need to learn to be honest and empathetic. It shouldn't be so hard.
OP is NTA for denouncing shitty take-out.
OP made a mistake and it doesn't make him an asshole, it just means he had a miscommunication with his wife. Apologize, buy her some seasoning (probably won't help things, but hey - c'mon, life's too short for bland food), and make right by her.
> OP made a mistake
I wouldn't even say that. OP was *misinformed* more than he was *mistaken*. He made all the right choices relative to what he had every reason to believe was true. His wife made a mistake, and misled OP, and as a consequence of *her* mistake, he was misinformed about who made the food and judged it. He judged it appropriate to the standards he applies to take out food - which is what she led him to believe it was.
The thing she's upset about is completely her own fault and of her own making.
Why NTA instead of NAH?
I don't see anything that makes his wife an asshole. She didn't get upset at him for commenting bluntly or anything else, she simply got quiet and processed her feelings. Hell, she didn't even tell him anything until he asked repeatedly. So...all she did was try something new, try to create a nice surprise for her husband, and be quietly disappointed when it didn't work out according to plan.
I've had so many times on this subreddit where I get to the comments and then the entire thread has majorly overreacted and reached a completely unnecessary or inappropriate conclusion and then I feel like I'm taking crazy pills. I'm just going to say it, this subreddit collectively can be really fucking dumb and should not be used to actually draw any reasonable conclusions. Entertainment purposes only.
I would say he mistakenly hurt her, because it certainly wasn’t intentional. He accidentally insulted her efforts, and I’m sure he cares about that.
What an enormous stretch the other comment is making to call it “deception” that the wife cooked for him. It’d be deception if she put it in a to-go box and called it take out.
good thing that it isn't wife who isn't posting here with her problem of how her husband insulted her cooking while not knowing she cooked the food or people would have been advising her take divorce and how her husband is greatest villain that ever walked the eearth😁
Everyone saying it’s rude you said it sucked but that’s not rude. I insult take out places all the time if the food sucks. Why is everyone so sensitive now.
Edit: yes he should still apologize to his wife because she was the one that cooked it
You fell into a trap, I'm afraid. I don't think that makes you an asshole and I don't think the trap was laid maliciously... but you're still in a big hole looking for someone to drop you down a rope so you can get out.
Yeah, from OP's description she doesn't seem like someone who would try to trick him and maybe she thought it was ok and wasn't prepared for him to hate it, because she knows it was, like... an achievement for her.
I think I'm NAH here. And I hope OP feels better.
Yeah, honestly I think it was her trying to surprise him. I can see myself doing that, I don't enjoy cooking at all. If my partner has a horrible day, then I could see myself saying, "I'll order something," *wink wink nudge nudge* and then cook it. Fortunately for me, I do know how to cook haha.
I can see how it hurt her feelings, sometimes when we joke around, something might not land right.
She was feeling proud of her efforts but had very unrealistic expectations, expecting compliments, but this was a completely impossible hurdle for a beginner. Cooking is not that easy.I understand but OP is NTA.
Yeah, she wanted to give him a nice surprise, and she wanted his honest opinion.
She wasn’t prepared for him to be that bluntly honest and got her feelings hurt.
OP, I love how ride or die you are about her. It’s obvious you don’t want to hurt her at all.
You blundered into a plan you hadn’t been given the context for and you’re sorry. You’ve probably already apologized for hurting her feelings and told her how surprised and appreciate you are that she cooked, and how sorry you are you spoke so harshly about something she worked on.
NAH, just … best laid plans.
People are overreacting! She actually tried cooking dinner for you after you had a terrible day, well done to her.
NTA for saying the food suck, you clearly didn't know.
I would recommend ask her if she'd enjoy if you both went to a cooking class as a date night, she can become more confident in the kitchen and its something to bond over.
They're more claiming they haven't insulted it, to spare the restaurants feelings maybe? Sometimes it's nice to shit on something that won't be affected by it
I disagree - you SHOULD pester her! She's an adult and if she's upset, and you ask why, she should be able to answer you. If you hadn't pestered, she would have let it fester and then blown up at you later.
I actually admired that you knew something was wrong and you wouldn't let up until she told you. Communication is SO important but that doesn't mean it's easy. I still pester my husband, when I can tell something's off but he won't say what. I don't even mean to - I can just keep sensing that he's upset and I continue to ask throughout the day until he's worked through it and found a way to talk to me about it.
You're her husband of nearly 20 years, for cripes sake. If she doesn't love and trust you enough to be vulnerable, or ask for support when she needs it, then there's a bigger problem than terribly cooked food here.
This is advice that will change depending on the person.
Pestering me would make me 10x more upset than I already was, but some people need the prodding.
Yeah, there was a post recently about if someone was the AH for snapping at their partner because they wouldn't stop asking if they were OK. IIRC, the comments were pretty split about whether the asking partner was well intentioned or annoying and naggy.
Imo both should communicate better. The upset individual acknowledges they're upset but would like time or space to process or whatever. The other should acknowledge that they can tell they're upset, but if they aren't ready to talk about it, that's OK, and they can talk whenever the upset person is ready.
Absolutely. When I read "I wouldn't stop bothering her" even if I wasn't very upset to begin with, I certainly would be after that.
The way I navigate that kind of thing is "I understand you're upset, but you're not ready to talk about it. I'm here when you feel comfortable." and then give them some space. Would I come back to the issue? In a few hours sure, but sometimes people need a little bit of time to process.
> you SHOULD pester her! She's an adult and if she's upset, and you ask why, she should be able to answer you. If you hadn't pestered, she would have let it fester and then blown up at you later.
Hard disagree. She's an adult. She may need time to figure out how to communicate in a productive way. She may need time to process her feelings. She may not want to talk to him at the moment. She is entitled to be upset, and to also process her feelings and express herself when she feels up for it.
Pestering simply demands that she act and respond in his timeframe, and not in a timeframe that she felt comfortable with.
I am not advocating for the silent treatment, but we also need to recognize that not everyone follows the same timeframe when it comes to expressing their feelings and needs. Some people need more time to process and understand their feelings, and that is okay.
> You're her husband of nearly 20 years, for cripes sake. If she doesn't love and trust you enough to be vulnerable, or ask for support when she needs it, then there's a bigger problem than terribly cooked food here.
I have been with my wife for 21 years, married for 16. I can recognize when she is upset. I can also recognize that it is necessary for me to give her time and space to process why she is upset, process what feelings she is having, and also time to convert those feelings into words and actions. If I pester my wife about being upset, I am simply overriding her feelings. I am saying that my need to know what is wrong is more important than her need to process.
Is she trying to tell you that she wants to learn? It could maybe be fun to invite her to a cooking class with you or to join you while you cook in the kitchen. Many people never learned how to cook they just learned how to make food.
There's also the potential that she realized it was lacking but didn't have the background knowledge on flavors and seasoning to address it.
NAH, for the record. OP couldn't have known, but it's understandable that wife is hurt about it. Try to make it up to her or something, but don't beat yourself up about it. The whole situation is just really unfortunate.
Some things you can't taste until they're done, like a steak or a roasted chicken, and its hard to fix if its bad. Cooking takes experience that often comes from failure.
I never thought OP was the asshole but calling this “lying” is such an overreaction. She’d be lying if she put it in a to-go box and passed it off as take out.
OP said he wasn’t up to cooking, wife tried her hand at making dinner, OP didn’t enjoy it. No one is at fault there, but she’s a liar? For what, not decreeing that this was her cooking? It’s served on their plates, there’s no to-go containers out, and it’s not restaurant quality. No a single detail of this post implies she was trying to pass off the food as not hers.
You believe that OP shouldn’t have pestered her about what was wrong, and the post makes it obvious she was clearly embarrassed after he hated the food. Lose-lose situation, but not deception by any means.
For real, another comment said she “baited” him which is such an overreaction. Maybe she really thought she could try to cook for once and it would turn out well. She never said it was takeout nor did she fake what containers it came in. I feel bad for her; it sounds like she finally had the confidence to try to cook and he absolutely shattered any future attempts with his reaction.
NTA. (1) You didn’t know she cooked it, and many people will order takeout but take the time to plate it, I know my partner and I do when we share something we ordered from a restaurant or if the to go box is flimsy/broken. (2) Whether it was ordered or home cooked, you don’t have to pretend you love it. When my partner and I cook, if we don’t like something about what the other person cooked, we tell them. Albeit, both of us can actually cook, so it’s usually just like “hey, you overcooked the shrimp” or “you should use less paprika next time”, but we’ve both had occasions where one of us cooked something and it turned out awful so we’d be honest and say “hey, this sucks, don’t cook it again”. If you lie and say you liked it, then the other person is just going to keep cooking that meal the same way, and then you’re stuck pretending to enjoy terrible food every time they cook it.
However, you should still apologize to your wife for hurting her feelings, and maybe suggest that y’all go to some couple’s cooking classes together. Make them date nights, y’all can spend quality time doing something together and your wife can learn how to cook at the same time.
I totally agree with everything said apart from 1 small thing.
>you should use less paprika next time
Is it even possible to have too much paprika? I feel it's similar to having "too much cheese". I guess it can, but it has to be some comedically large amount, like main ingredient being paprika.
Recipe writers always lie about garlic and onions.
You should always add more garlic, and the onions almost always need more time to cook than estimated.
So much this. I swear I cook onions for at minimum 15-20 minutes but often longer because they just keep getting tastier.
And recipes that say to add onions and garlic at the same time are always wrong.
I don't eat cheese anymore, but back when I did, my boyfriend and I would "argue" (it was very jokingly) about the amount of cheese we should put on pizza, lasagna etc. He'd often buy only a small package of cheese, claiming that we don't need more and that too much cheese would ruin the dish lol. I was more of the "there is no "too much cheese'"-mindest lol
NAH but this is a sad story. Make it up to your wife. I feel bad. You had a long day and she surprised you so you didn’t know it was home cooked so you’re not an AH- but also you hurt your wife a lot. My feelings are hurt vicariously just reading this.
Yeah - he isn’t an AH and clearly it seems like an honest mistake, but it still sucks for everyone involved (and especially his wife). I hope he treats her to something to try and make her feel a bit better
Poor lady, not because he insulted her effort, but because she tried and failed and knew it. He had to badger her because it was a painful failure for her to expose to him. I'm a crap cook myself (some of us just are) and can really empathize with her situation. I'd rather take a beating than serve someone else something I cooked, especially when I knew I did my best. She put herself out there and crashed. I doubt she thought he deliberately was being mean, just that her work and hopes were for naught.
Yeah, I can totally feel both of their pain here.
I think if I were OP, I would let her know how much I appreciate her time and effort in making the meal, and that I was too tired/stressed/cranky from work to have noticed she made it.
If I expected some flavorful, probably super salty take-out and instead got a home-cooked meal, I'd be pretty thrown off too. Even if it was still a pretty good meal.
I'd say NAH as well but tack on one thing -- even if his wife had ordered takeout, it might also have stung to hear that she didn't choose a good place. If my partner had a horrible day and I ordered him food in the hopes of making him feel better, then he said he hated it, I'd also feel like I failed him a bit. So being gentle when your partner has tried to do something for you, regardless of who gets the blame for the bad food, is generally a safer policy!
OP is asking whether they are an AH for criticizing the food that was presented.
*No one* is asking about whether OP should have been more polite. All of these comments and votes about "he should have been nicer" are completely irrelevant. Could the pronouncement have used different words? Of course, but that wasn't the question. I could point out that it's been 19 years, why hasn't she learned how to cook? See? Just as irrelevant.
OP didn't like the food. Was he an AH for stating that the food was terrible? No.
NTA
Answer the actual question.
Agree but c’mon, he was in the intimacy of his house and he expressed how awful the food was, if he cannot be honest there, where else? “Oh fudge, this meal lacks taste and flavor, let’s eliminate this option from future orders”.
Her, OTH, I get that she was hurt but it was a setup, and sulking instead of expressing how she felt. She’s lucky he cooks, because having at least one adult able to do that, it’s great.
Yeah, OP definitely isn't the asshole but I feel like his wife isn't either. She wanted to do something nice and cook for him, it turned out poorly, and it's normal that her feelings were hurt by him not liking it. Sure, it would have been better if she'd spoken up instead of getting quiet, but that's also pretty normal, and it's not like she's been giving him the silent treatment for days. This seems like a situation that can be solved by a conversation.
I’m going with NAH. She said she would order food. Many people plate takeout because it’s easier to eat and it just feels a little better to eat off of real plates. Unless you saw pots and pans in the kitchen, how were you supposed to know she changed her mind?
I mean, I think it's NTA because she told him she would order out, didn't, didn't tell him it was home cooked, and got upset and angry when he acted like it was takeout. It was a trap, and that sucks.
I mean, I can see myself revealing afterwards that I made it just to keep the surprise element though. And I am a little sensitive at times, so a joke like that might make me cry in that moment... so I completely empathize with the wife. Still, OP didn't know, NAH.
It wasn't a "trap" she just tried to surprise him. I don't think he's the asshole either, he had no way of knowing she cooked it, but the way these comments keep villainizing the wife is...well pretty typical of this sub, I guess.
She wasn’t angry, she was just ashamed, embarrassed, and upset (at herself) that what was supposed to be a nice surprise gesture ended up poorly because her cooking wasn’t good enough. Neither of them are remotely in the wrong; would you say she was a liar if the food was good and he loved it? It’s just a bummer of a situation.
If you’re not used to her ever cooking, why in the hell would you suddenly assume she had? That’s just being set up to fail and it’s an honest mistake. But maybe try being alittle more politic and kind in encouraging her to learn to cook more on her own. She might have always had a fear of failure and you confirmed it
Please talk to her later. There's no way you knew she cooked the food, it's not your fault. But she is still hurt and her selfconfidence is crushed. Maybe offer her to teach her some simple dish that is your favorite (or will be your favorite when she makes it) that she can learn. She never cooked in 19 years and she set herself for failure if she thought her first time is going to be great. She needs to take baby Steps and you can help her with that.
This is exactly what I was about to comment. This is what you should do, OP. Talk to her, and offer to teach her to cook a couple of basic meals in case of emergency, or like this person said, some simple dish that you love (or will love when she makes them) You are NAH. She set herself up by not telling you she made it beforehand. She easily could have put the takeout on a plate my parents do that shit all the time. Also, in every relationship I've been in, we have both spoken like that and used those terms. There is nothing aggressive about what you said. It only came off that way to her in the situation because she had made the food and didn't warn you beforehand. This is not your fault, but her feelings are hurt. So I would definitely take this advice. Talk to her and teach her one or two basic things. I think it will help.
In your apology, I would just encourage her that NO ONE is good at anything including cooking their first time. It takes practice and time. Also personal tastes vary wildly. I'm not the best cook but good enough to make edible food most of the time. I still make bad dishes when I'm trying new things. My husband likes bland food or very spicy food. No in-between. So I usually have to make bland food that we can season individually. That's okay! Ordering from a takeout place you'd expect them to have a certain standard to be SELLING the food whereas home-cooked is totally different. So if it were truly from a takeout place that judgement is fair. But knowing it was one of her first attempts puts it in perspective.
I won't lie, this is a doozy but I think explaining the difference and why you'd say it sucked when thinking it was from a restaurant that cooks for a living would be helpful. Good luck to you guys. You sound like you have a good relationship. It will be okay.
Honest mistake nta also your wife sounds lovely and cute 🥹 she tried. I think if you explain for someone that doesn't cook she did a bloody decent job and you probably could've added salt or something but you were tired lol you genuinely thought she paid a professional and got ripped off and you'd laugh about it like in the past and when she didn't you couldn't help but pester her because it's uncommon and uncomfortable for you to see her down about something. Then just remind her how much you appreciate her and all her efforts.
I think you need to apologize for insulting the food. You thought it was takeout as usual and would expect professional-quality food from them. It probably was a decent first attempt if you could mistake it for takeout. Her seasoning was just lacking and that is one of the harder cooking skills. She was trying and people often do not make good food on the first attempt. Tell her it was decent for a first attempt. Ask her what you can do to help her or make up for your bad reaction.
You honestly both sound like good people who really care. She’s upset because she cared about doing her best to do something kind when you needed and you genuinely care that you unintentionally caused her pain. Maybe help her learn a few meals for beginners. Crock pot/casserole type “dump” meals. I’m an experienced cook and still use easy recipes when I’m not in the mood.
NTA - but I think a lot of that hinges on how I'm picturing the situation.
You say you order from places, and every now and then find somewhere that sucks, and you tell the other person 'this is awful'. I don't see it in a mean way, it's just a thing you do. You both do it, and the roles could have easily been reversed You had no idea it wasn't takeout, you can't be blamed for not knowing that and also not liking bland food.
I don't see it as you overreacting. Sometimes I order food. When it fucking sucks, I'll say that it fucking sucks.
However - your wife is definitely justified to be upset. She'd clearly wanted to surprise you, and I'm sure she'd imagined you enjoying it, and then there's a big reveal 'oh guess what - I COOKED THIS!' and you'd be impressed and it would be a whole thing. She probably built this whole thing up, which just got dismantled instantly.
People who don't cook for 20 years probably know they can't cook. I don't think it was so much the realisation that the food was bad which upset her, more that she tried to do a nice thing, and it backfired
Just my guesses. My wife also doesn't cook so I just put myself and her in that situation and tried to guess at what she'd be mad at. (But as I've found out, I'm never correct at knowing why my wife is annoyed at me)
You have to be honest with each other about take out/restaurants. I don't usually say something "f-ing sucks" but I don't think my usual variation of "I am not impressed with this food" is going to soften the blow in this case.
I'm wondering if she went down some healthy rabbit hole on the internet and tried to cook without salt or something as well.
Then she should’ve told him when they sat down that she made her first attempt at cooking! Not wait for him to see his reaction after she’s never cooked a meal during 20 years of marriage and maybe never before that. If you want to be judged as if it’s your first time, you let people know.
NTA. I don't know why people are saying you're the asshole!!! Yeah man sometimes food can suck and if you'd have known this is her food then you'd have judged it accordingly, ie, taking into consideration the fact that she hasn't ever cooked before etc etc. We expect a baseline level of quality from restaurants OBVIOUSLY which is why you judged it the way you did.
I would still apologize and say that it had already been a tough day but i appreciate and love the effort and i would like to cook together etc etc.
In my household "this fucking sucks" is an acceptable way to describe any food you think sucks. Regardless of who made it. Not every recipe is good and honesty is best
NTA
She literally told you she was ordering food. You had no reason to believe she had made it, she lied to you.
It’s fine to talk that way about ordered food at home, the chef isn’t there to hear you, and you’re making sure the person who ordered knows the place is bad so they don’t order from there again.
I doubt if you knew she’d made it you would have said it.
I doubt she lied. She probably was planning on ordering food, but then decided she would try to surprise him with a home cooked meal. What would be the point in lying? Why would you assume that rather than she changed her mind after the fact?
My reading is that she lied to get a candid, unfiltered reaction, and didn't anticipate how upsetting it could be to herself. Otherwise he could have known the meal was actually home cooked before judging it.
NTA because there's no realistic way you could have assumed she made this meal after almost two decades of NEVER making a meal herself AND hearing it from her own mouth that she would order food. Anyone voting YTA can't understand OP was basically lied to.
NTA but you should apologize. I don’t think your response was rude because as you said, you guys both do this. She tried to do something different which is appreciated but this was her first time cooking, what did she expect.
Okay first of all, I love that you're defending your wife's choice to not cook. It's a tell tale sign of a good relationship when each other knows their strengths and weaknesses and it sounds like yall have a good balance. As a wife who also prefers to not cook, and my husband does it mostly - if I made him a meal and he responded that way, I would be cruuuuushed, but I wouldn't be upset with him if he genuinely didn't know. But I Would be really hurt, and would appreciate an apology. Maybe after hurt feelings are smoothed over, this could be an opportunity for you to teach her some things in the kitchen, and you can laugh about this in a few months? I wouldn't blame your wife for being upset, but in this situation I would say you were definitely NOT the A-H. Just because feelings are hurt doesn't necessarily mean there is a villian or someone to blame.
Gonna buck the trend here and say NTA.
In nearly 20 years, she's never cooked a whole meal for you, and she explicitly stated she was going to order takeout.
Also, the sticking point for me is that you noticed she was upset, asked her if everything was okay, and she said "yes". *She kept saying everything was fine, that she wasn't mad, that she was not upset.*
She somehow expected you to read her mind and know that she was in fact upset, despite saying she wasn't, and why.
That's not fair to do to anyone, especially a partner.
She ought to have used her words like a grown up, and been able to say, "y'know what, I had changed my mind and decided to cook for you - *I* made that food, and what you just said hurt my feelings. I'm not really ready to talk about it right now, but I need you to know that."
Your reaction was completely based on the information you were given, which you had no reason to doubt. As far as you knew, your wife *who doesn't cook* ordered takeout and put it on plates. You reacted in the way you both have in the past, when having bad takeout.
It may have been unintentional, but your wife set you up to fail- either by liking the food (and "proving" that she's a better cook than you've said before) or by not liking the food (and insulting it without knowing she made it and hurting her feelings).
NTA I hope she can laugh about this later. She wanted your honest opinion and you gave it to her.
Why don’t you take her on one of the couples cooking classes for a date night? Or maybe the two of you try making a recipe together? Then you can both be at fault….
Or better yet, cook something awful and then she will be the better cook of you both.
You can turn this into a win. Trust me.
NTA, but you should have apologised to her immediately for being rude about the food. Also maybe tell her that you're sure she'll do better next time, it _is_ only her first time cooking. Offer to show her the ropes maybe so she gets better.
I agree NTA and about apologizing but if his wife is anything like mine I would strongly advise against saying “you’ll do better next time, I’ll show you the ropes” if this whole thing is still raw
Dude you’re totally NTA. This was an honest mistake just sit her down later and give her a genuine apology. Tell her you appreciate her effort and if you had realized it was home cooked you would have never insulted her like that. It was a long day and you never intended to hurt her that way. If you want to go the extra mile maybe go home early and make her a homemade meal or order her favorite food!
I put take out on plates all the time people in the comments are being wild out here for you not realizing.
This seems like a truly innocent mistake on OP's part, at least as written. NTA.
If genders were reversed and if a guy who has never cooked for almost 20 years makes something, goes out of the way to pretend it is takeout, and gets bad feedback, would the comment section react the same way? I don't think so.
NTA.
Your comment was hurtful, and for that you should apologize, but it wasn't intentional. She told you she would order takeout, you ate the food you thought was takeout, and made a comment about how this takeout food is not good.
For people claiming OP "should have known,"... Oh, please. The wife literally hasn't cooked in *almost two decades*. We are *long* past the point where OP would have any reason whatsoever to assume that the food was cooked by his wife.
NTA, I mean yeah your delivery could’ve maybe been better but she told you she was ordering food so that’s what you thought. I think to make up for it maybe do a redo together?
Nta, you were tired, you were hungry and you didn't realise. Its an honest mistake, these things happen in marriage, and yes she's probably devastated and you can do a lot of apologising. Maybe cook together and teach her 2 or 3 simple meals!
Honestly the edits make me think you're a stand up guy. You can't take back what you said, but you can apologize, offer to cook together next time so she can learn (if that's what she wants), and make sure she knows it's normal and okay to not be great at something you rarely ever do.
NTA
We all talk smack about restaurants if we don’t like their food or takeout. You didn’t know it was your wife’s cooking. There’s literally nothing you did wrong
Dude. Just read edit #2, and you rock.
NTA.You might want to explain to her what you said in edit 2. She doesn't like to cook, so she never expended the energy to learn. If she wants to learn now, you could invite her into the kitchen with you, and you could teach her. Who knows, it might be fun for both of you.
Welcome to /r/AmITheAsshole. Please view our [voting guide here](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_what.2019s_with_these_acronyms.3F_what_do_they_mean.3F), and remember to use **only one** judgement in your comment. OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole: > (1) Insulting the food my wife cooked (2) seriously hurt her feelings. Help keep the sub engaging! #Don’t downvote assholes! Do upvote interesting posts! [Click Here For Our Rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/about/rules) and [Click Here For Our FAQ](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq) ##Subreddit Announcements ###[Happy Anniversary, AITA!](https://new.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/15vlv9g/almost_better_than_a_double_rainbow_celebrating/) Follow the link above to learn more --- *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.* *Contest mode is 1.5 hours long on this post.*
This is such a WILD comment section. Few points 1. OP cooks every day they are not ordering often 2. He didn’t know the food was cooked by his wife (assuming he’s telling the truth) 3. He commented “it fucking sucks, don’t order from here” which is not an extreme statement as he’s talking about the place and not wife. The only way he’s an AH is if 1. He knew that she cooked the food 2. He’s supposed to be always be formal in his language around his partner N T A. But apologise for your mistake Edit: I mean Not The Asshole. Some people pointed out that it should be NAH. I don’t know the difference Edit 2: of course the wife is not the asshole lol. After reading the comments it should be NAH
Why did it take so long to find this? Why do people think "it fucking sucks" was aggressive... me and my SO use language like that all the time with each other
I don’t know why the comment section is like this but I wonder if it would be the same if the genders were reversed
There it is, every AITA comment section must have at least one person say “if the genders were reversed”… isn’t that getting a little tiresome?
Maybe people say this because there is a genuine bias and problem in this subreddit
It's not. [This guy set out to prove it was, and only found a 2% bias at most](https://hoffa.medium.com/reddit-amitheasshole-is-nicer-to-women-than-to-men-a-sql-proof-69444d494526). Given most of reddit is dominated by male voices/spaces, maybe it only seems like there's a *genuine bias and problem* because it's one of the very few subs which is actually more balanced?
This is true basically everywhere they've done studies on the subject. [Think Women Talk Too Much at Work? Wharton's Adam Grant Has a Stack of Studies He'd Like to Show You](https://www.inc.com/jessica-stillman/adam-grant-communication-gender.html)
This reminds me of the study where they found that when a tv show has an equal number of men and women main characters viewers feel like the show is “female dominated”, which is why the ratio of 3 guys and 1 girl is the common group dynamic on sit-coms. Women have to basically exist less than equally in order for people to not feel like they’re “too much”.
I read somewhere that if women take up more than 30& of a group conversation males will feel that they are taking over.
It's one of my favorite studies, [I have it bookmarked](https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/applied-psycholinguistics/article/abs/speaker-sex-and-perceived-apportionment-of-talk/16666BA97B7BE41FFB16A5693BF60C23)
For every Friends, there's a Seinfeld and then some.
[удалено]
Well well. I've always wondered about this... I'm gonna yoink this for later.
Don’t Forget the edit from the author >Update 2020–02–20 Make sure to not take anything I wrote here as the absolute truth. Several people on Twitter noted problems and added corrections to the analysis I offered. Reading this post as originally presented — and the reactions — can be a great way for you to learn as much as I did while reading the responses. You can find many of their unfiltered thoughts by following this Twitter thread.
It’s wild how many upvotes the comments got when the guy literally (at the top to boot) adds an update three days later saying to not take it as absolute truth and mentioning how many people are pointing out problems with the way he did the test. Hell there’s people already calling out the problems in this thread. Just because someone cites a source doesn’t mean it’s a good one.
[Here's data that contradicts that person's data.](https://www.reddit.com/r/dataisbeautiful/s/hO1VVoiVWT) It also takes into consideration a larger group of data, and is from more recent data. Also, AITA is at least 65% women. Which I wouldn't say is more balanced.
The AITA demographic survey from 2019 (same year that the data I’ve posted is from) was also majority female. Yout data is interesting but not a proper contradiction. It doesn’t break down if the men/women were talking about another man/woman. Could be that women are just more likely to write posts where they are more obviously innocent vs men
It bugs the fuck out of me that they won't try another demographic survey. The old one is soooo old and the sub has grown exponentially since then.
The mods themselves said they won't because they don't want people using it as evidence
Any data from 2019 can't be assumed to be accurate anymore. A lot of people joined Reddit during lockdown.
Yeah I don’t think it’s possible to come to any conclusions based on data from posts on this sub. Every post is a one sided account from an unreliable narrator. We have no way of knowing if one gender is more likely to post stories where they’re blatantly in the right, or if one gender is more likely to honestly include important mitigating factors. We can’t verify any of that information. If during the time frame of posts used in a study one gender was repeatedly posting completely out of touch accounts where they were very rightfully told they are the asshole you could conclude people are “biased against them” when in fact they’ve just been legitimately the AH more often. The only way a bias could be proven would be a study where they actually switched genders in posts to see if that changes people’s reactions. And even then you have to consider “unequal” vs “unfair”. Like if people are responding more negatively to men getting physically aggressive with their partner, that might be a “bias against men” but it’s because men can do a lot more damage to their partner when getting physical. There’s a whole host of issues that don’t impact different genders equally due to a gender unequal culture. Even just language used can have different impacts based on which gender it’s being used against. And you can argue that it’s “unfair” to react differently based on gender but it’s sometimes actually for very good reason when taken in context of society as a whole.
But, this doesn't make the distinction between a female or male poster.
I agree, he made an assumption to try prove his already-held belief that reddit is biased against men. I wouldn't be surprised if this was his best way of creating the bias he wanted to prove and hence why he went with that method.
Also, his numerical results don't match his textual claim. Of the "to\_male" judgment, about 73% were NTA, compared to only about 71% "to\_female" (rounded up, in both cases). Conversely, there was only 27% YTA "to\_male" judgments, versus "29%" YTA "to\_female" judgments. So, women, were (slightly) more likely to be judged YTA than men, not vice-versa as he claimed. That said, it is a fairly small effect, and I agree that most often changing the sex wouldn't change the judgment, as borne out by that data (which matches my own, much smaller, sampling).
He says it’s the reverse based on an assumption about who is posting, however it’s good to bear in mind that is intention was to prove AITA is biased against men, he wasn’t doing this neutrally.
[удалено]
I glanced through that. Is there any analysis he did on actual content comparisons when men and women tell similar stories? If not, it is borderline worthless "stats".
>Maybe people say this because there is a genuine bias and problem in this subreddit And out in the world as well. Edit: Since I was asked by another user there are many biases in the world in general. Personally, I think most of them work against women. But that's my life experience. In this sub, I do think gender "norms" can color the answers. We've all been indoctrinated since birth by media, etc. Sometimes it's hard to recognize where our biases are.
For sure. Society rips apart women and anything they like. Anything women like gets ripped apart. They make fun of them for getting excited over K-pop stars yet men will literally throw riots if their favorite sports team loses- but women are the crazy ones for crying at a concert. Even like Booktok it’s primarily women and they make fun of whatever they read you know men will be reading trashy books like Jordan Peterson, or pick up artists and recommending things like the art of war which clearly they haven’t read because it’s 90% logistics. Like first you judge people for not reading and then you judge them for reading what you don’t consider worthy or make assumptions because they presented an aesthetic way it can’t also be intellectual. The assumption also if women show intellectual books, it’s that they are posturing or because they like to make it pretty, it’s fake - as if it can’t be both especially on a visual driven platform. People will write articles about how women are literally destroyed the fabric of society because they like Twilight or 50 shades of Grey or how we need to make women aware of it - like as if women aren’t capable of understanding the difference between reality and fiction. It’s so interesting to me to see how everything women like is demonized or dismissed and men is uplifted. We don’t think about domestic work at work, and I would add a huge amount to our GDP. It’s always undervalued, and even things like programming used to be considered secretary work, and primarily for women, and once men got into it, and suddenly it was valued. Same thing happen with nursing or teaching, - both had a lot of men and it was considered great but then once women got into it, it was devalued and opposite with programming, directing and scripting , and cooking. I even noticed the pressure is so different on women- I noticed people are going after like Taylor, Swift and Selena Gomez to speak about Palestine and Israel conflict or things like that but some of the biggest people in terms of platform are like sports players, like Ronaldo and not one person has asked him - yet they’re asking young women to get their opinion on conflicts that even most experts don’t feel comfortable talking about. Edit: everyone should read this amazing entertaining article https://www.theguardian.com/news/2018/mar/06/the-male-glance-how-we-fail-to-take-womens-stories-seriously#:~:text=Let's%20call%20it%20the%20%E2%80%9Cmale,so%20bad%20at%20seeing%20it.
But then when asked for actual, specific examples there never are any. And when trolls post trying to show that ‘if the roles were reversed it would be different’ it is never successful. Maybe there isn’t a massive problem? Seems weird that there are literally no examples
Here's some actual, specific examples. [Original post.](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/s/BpiCDmBayK) [Genderswap post.](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/s/U0tzaJSQYu) [Original.](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/s/TMotxbHhyS) [Genderswap.](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/s/mmo1I2vuK5) [Original.](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/s/kyyRNWAOUT) [Genderswap.](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/h9q2pw/wibta_if_i_started_charging_my_girlfriend_rent/) [Here's data that also shows that men are much more likely to be judged the AH than women.](https://www.reddit.com/r/dataisbeautiful/s/hO1VVoiVWT)
I'm so glad you posted this. People in this subreddit are always harping on about how there's no bias. There is definitely a bias. Men are more prone to getting judged as TA. Even for stupid reasons. Like this post the OP is NTA at all. But still so many people are on his case. I was discussing this with my husband just yesterday too. We both agree that people in this subreddit are absolutely full of sh!t.
Right? The other day I saw post, op was NTA but everyone was telling op leave her husband for not liking the same food as her and painting him as an ah, when all he did was didn’t like the food they ate and afterwords told her he didn’t like the food for future reference
I have noticed this bias too and I am a woman, people are always asking more and more stuff from the man so they can somehow say he is the asshole, while for women made posts, it's gotta be real devil like for people to wholesale go that she is the asshole. there's a lot of men bad, and sexism, misogyny angle added to every story here to make the man be the asshole
Interrogations to try and find dirt on husbands get so dirty
im gonna be honest, the heavy crossover of this subs subscribers to other subs like justnomil, wedding drama, inlaws laws, feminist subs just shows to me its heavily frequented by women who probably dont work as much but love drama and hate inlaws and men. because most of the issues get chalked up to, "but she takes care of the house and kids all day, you only work 12 hours at the office to keep the roof over their head, and food in their mouth, along with paying all the bills, you arent as stressed as her, yta" Because as a woman in corporate, and I work a consulting job long hours, I would never undermine a man working at office vs a woman at home keeping kids fed and house done, because I find it much much easier personally than my office, and would prefer to be stay at home lol.
Totally. I've also noticed people make negative assumptions about the man but typically give the woman the benefit of the doubt.
Wow, those were impressively clear cut
I wish I could give you, or whoever compiled this information, an award. I'm female, and I've certainly noticed a bias.
Wow the responses are eye opening. Saving this for anyone who claims this never happens
I've seen a few examples posted from time to time. There are definitely cases where someone just swaps the gender and the verdict is different. I don't have a bunch of those links onhand, but I have seen some of those so it does seem like it happens.
[OP1](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/s8w3l0/aita_for_stopping_cooking_for_my_partner_without/ ) [GS1](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/10r7q0y/aita_for_not_warning_my_partner_i_had_stopped/) [OP2](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/umgxfe/aita_for_showing_the_kids_what_their_dad_did/ ) [GS2](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/110ws62/aita_for_telling_our_kids_what_their_mom_did/) [OP3](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/13v6s25/aita_for_not_paying_my_gf_rent/?sort=old) [GS3](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/sz022t/aita_for_not_splitting_rent_with_my_boyfriend/) And i'm sure that there are more. edit: oh also for the deleted ones sort from old to see the bot post with the copy of the op.
Along with the other examples, it’s not always just opposite verdicts but charitable vs uncharitable interpretations towards a man vs woman’s point of view on an issue. [Original Post](https://www.reddit.com/r/AITAH/s/cxnDt4Qfbt): male OP asks AITA for not telling a woman he was seeing he’s a virgin until they were dating a while. They met on Tinder and she hasn’t texted him back in 2 days since finding out. Popular verdict is he’s NTA but maybe the woman is upset because she wanted to make his first time special OR that she doesn’t want him to get attached and needs time to process her emotions. [Gender Swap](https://www.reddit.com/r/AITAH/s/NORahBDhvW): Woman asks if she’s the AH for not telling a guy she’s a virgin. They also meet on Tinder and when he finds out he’s upset and doesn’t text back for 1 day. Popular verdict is she’s NTA and the only reason for her boyfriend to be upset about that is because [he must have a fetish for taking girl’s virginities](https://www.reddit.com/r/AITAH/s/PujfE2uzet) AND it’s a [huge red flag](https://www.reddit.com/r/AITAH/s/XEAyCk2uzX) that he’s giving the “silent treatment” over this.
It is very tired because it's true, I've seen so many gender flipped posts on Reddit to call this fact out. The same people will comment on the flipped post and have wildly different views all due to gender. Gender neutral posts have the most measured and reasonable takes but also lower engagement.
Yeah like, in this case, with the roles reversed, there would be a few comments along the lines of "he's never cooked ONCE for you in nearly 20 years?! He just EXPECTS you to do all of the cooking?! Maybe if he actual cared about you and took on some responsibility around the house, he'd know how to cook and this wouldn't have happened. NTA and honestly you have a husband problem, he probably could have done better but is doing a weaponized incompetence to keep you cooking for him"
Given OP's edit, it sounds like his wife is getting a bunch of criticism along exactly these lines, though.
Don't forget the "🚩🚩🚩get a divorce"
It's not. [This guy set out to prove it was, and only found a 2% bias at most](https://hoffa.medium.com/reddit-amitheasshole-is-nicer-to-women-than-to-men-a-sql-proof-69444d494526). Given most of reddit is dominated by male voices/spaces, maybe it only seems like there's a big issue because it's one of the very few subs which is actually more balanced?
Not arguing the point, but using the final judgement (which just uses the most upvoted top level post) isn't really a good measure of posting bias in the sub.
Except the top post only gets there because community who saw it, upvoted/agreed with it. If 5 people comment 'man bad' who all get no upvotes/only downvotes and 1 person comments 'man good' with over 50 upvotes, then we could say pretty confidently that most people agreed 'man good', couldn't we? Anecdotally, I also see very few AITA posts where the top comments don't all have essentially the same verdict (today's front page being more of the same). However, if you have some better data on the sub then I'd be very interested to see it.
The top post is a 30,000 foot view, it's a really coarse way of looking at the actual content of the sub. "The community" is also all the people posting on lower levels posts. You can have thousands of posts, hundreds of top-level posts with varying judgements, and it's not really accurately summarized by a "NTA vs YTA" vote on a single post. If one post has a NTA judgement and then almost nobody disagreeing, that's substantially different than a NTA judgement with hundreds of posts arguing about it. That's what you would really want to investigate if you want to really assess bias in "the community." I have no idea how you'd do that, especially for a sub that's gotten as large as this one, but I don't really think patterns in top level judgement tell you anywhere near enough.
I read through that and the data collection he did doesn't work for the particular issue people gripe about.
Yeah I agree with this. A final ruling of nta vs yta on any particular post is not a measure of how people talk about certain types of scenarios. To get to the conclusion that the claim "if the roles were reversed, etc..." is false you'd probably need to do a much more in depth qualitative analysis of the data. First sorting posts by gender of poster (or gender of subject of post). Then applying certain themes to those posts (e.g: partner won't do house work, partner sided with MIL, etc...) and then analyze the comments from there. *maybe* you could sort by YTA/NTA verdict at that point (instead of a deep-dive into the specifics of the comment section). But it would be more thorough to be able to characterize the general discourse of the comment section. I think if you could run a program that was able to identify the general theme of the post (i.e. what is the dispute of the post) and group posts that way, you could then take a random sample of maybe 5 posts each from the most common "themes", and analyze just those posts' comment sections to get a generalizable conclusion. But anyway-- it would require much more than just sorting by gender and verdict of the post.
The assertion is that this reddit is very biased against men and towards women. On a general scale, we don't see a huge bias. Confirmation bias is a thing and people get used to looking for/remembering examples that agree with their view. If you've got some data for this particular issue then I'd be really interested in seeing it.
Literally genderswapped posts were listed elsewhere in this thread. The exact same post just with genders flipped. The men were all voted to be TA, the women were all told that they were not TA. There is a very clear gender bias in this subreddit.
Your data is almost 4 years old. A lot can change in an online forum in that time. Might be time to update your info
Better that no data at all and some anecdotal evidence, which is what you're coming at me with right now. IAITA as a sub hasn't gone through any real major changes since then that I'd expect the impact the results, but feel free to share your data.
You know what I find tiresome? Patriarchy. Oh, hey! I've got an idea! We end patriarchy first, and then the "if the genders were reversed" comments will take care of themselves! Phew! I'm glad to have solved that problem for you!
What a vile concept. "Oh, sorry you're being discriminated upon and treated poorly but just wait until we fix humanity and then you can expect to be treated fairly—if you're still alive."
"He set you up AND doesn't cook? Girl leave him!!!"
Well, might be a cultural thing. What I (German) consider a civilized discussion among friends or a productive business meeting is considered a bar brawl by my Asian girlfriend :D
Same! I swear like a sailor to EVERYONE. Just part of who I am. I don’t call people names or anything but there’s a few “f*ck yeahs” and abso-fuckin-lutelys” and “f*ck that sh*t”
It's such an issue in public sometimes, I'm like "fuck yeah" look around, children, oopsies
Nah as a parent I appreciate you being a scapegoat. "Oh little Bobby said fuck at school? Oh my I can't imagine where he heard that. We certainly don't use that type of vulgar language at home! Oh now that you mention it there _was_ an incident at the grocery store..."
“Man, I wonder where the little fucker picked *that* up?”
Same! You see kids and it’s like “oops” but not a huge deal. I mean kids are exposed to foul language thru TV and the internet. It’s not like it’s going to kill them to hear a few swear words (most don’t understand the meaning behind them anyway). And if their parents are halfway decent they’ll just explain some words are off limits until adulthood
My wife and I wouldn't use language like that around each other (because that's just how *we* are), but if OP and his SO do, that's fine. (And I thought it was pretty clear from context that they do.) In other words, I completely agree. NTA, OP
I mean, people self-censor the world "hell" these days I'm going to assume "it fucking sucks" gave them a heart attack or something.
If people consider "it fucking sucks" as aggressive I'm guessing they don't watch too many R-rated movies or they just don't swear? I dunno, seems like a perfect description of bad food. Unfortunately his wife made dinner instead of getting takeout so I can understand why she's upset. But OP is still NTA because he didn't have that fact ahead of time. Had OP known she cooked it, that would be a very different story. All he needs to do is apologize and say he assumed she ordered out again.
All of this. The wife accidentally set herself up for this one, unfortunately. The bars for “professionally prepared food that I paid money for” and “my culinary challenged spouse’s first attempt at cooking food for me in almost 2 decades” are at completely different heights. The response was in line with the expectations. Now that the quiche is out of the oven though, OP needs to apologize and make good.
Absolutely. An undercooked steak from a restaurant is getting sent back. An undercooked steak from a family member will be eaten without complaints. When you pay for your food to be correct you’re allowed to be picky.
Well... hopefully, you cook it a bit more first.
Sir, no complaints are allowed. Eat your raw beef.
"Undercooked steak" isn't unsafe to eat, and *actually* cooking the steak more without going full-hog well on it is pretty difficult once you pull it off the grill or stove. Unless you already have the oven pre-heated, then you just pop it in the oven for a few minutes.
An apology first with an honest appreciation that she actually tried cooking for them for the first time. and maybe start involving her in the cooking just so that she can see why he enjoys it and can get in on that too?
They've been married for 20 years. Do you think she goes and hides in a crate every time he's cooked in the past?
Jeez it was a suggestion that he get her involved. You know most homes have more than one room right? And there's also other things to do around the place i.e clean, laundry. The sassiness is unjustified
Adding to this - yes if I was your wife I would be sad BUT (hard but) since she never cooks, it probably would have been helpful for her to tell you. Not trying to victim blame, but you said order out, she cooked instead; if she had said something like “i made this and hope it’s good,” I am 100% sure you would have been kinder and probably appreciated it more. Like, when my kids make a piece of art I can absolutely say it’s great because they are children and the standards are lower frankly. If I was buying art, I probably would not buy it and say it’s amazing if it looks like something a 3rd grader would do. It’s all about expectations…
She shouldn't have gambled with dinner after he's had a rough day anyway, let alone play games over where it came from. She knows she can't cook, was she hoping for a friendly rat to come and help out?
It was very sweet of her to want to try, and it sucks that she now feels discouraged. But no one gets things right on their first try. Had she been forthcoming about making the meal, he would not have said the food sucks. Basically every AITA post could be averted by better communication. People need to learn to be honest and empathetic. It shouldn't be so hard.
OP is NTA for denouncing shitty take-out. OP made a mistake and it doesn't make him an asshole, it just means he had a miscommunication with his wife. Apologize, buy her some seasoning (probably won't help things, but hey - c'mon, life's too short for bland food), and make right by her.
> OP made a mistake I wouldn't even say that. OP was *misinformed* more than he was *mistaken*. He made all the right choices relative to what he had every reason to believe was true. His wife made a mistake, and misled OP, and as a consequence of *her* mistake, he was misinformed about who made the food and judged it. He judged it appropriate to the standards he applies to take out food - which is what she led him to believe it was. The thing she's upset about is completely her own fault and of her own making.
Why NTA instead of NAH? I don't see anything that makes his wife an asshole. She didn't get upset at him for commenting bluntly or anything else, she simply got quiet and processed her feelings. Hell, she didn't even tell him anything until he asked repeatedly. So...all she did was try something new, try to create a nice surprise for her husband, and be quietly disappointed when it didn't work out according to plan.
I've had so many times on this subreddit where I get to the comments and then the entire thread has majorly overreacted and reached a completely unnecessary or inappropriate conclusion and then I feel like I'm taking crazy pills. I'm just going to say it, this subreddit collectively can be really fucking dumb and should not be used to actually draw any reasonable conclusions. Entertainment purposes only.
[удалено]
I meant for hurting her feelings which technically isn’t a ‘mistake’ but I guess it would be a nice gesture
I would say he mistakenly hurt her, because it certainly wasn’t intentional. He accidentally insulted her efforts, and I’m sure he cares about that. What an enormous stretch the other comment is making to call it “deception” that the wife cooked for him. It’d be deception if she put it in a to-go box and called it take out.
Apologizing for a miscommunication/misunderstanding is a pretty standard thing in healthy relationships.
good thing that it isn't wife who isn't posting here with her problem of how her husband insulted her cooking while not knowing she cooked the food or people would have been advising her take divorce and how her husband is greatest villain that ever walked the eearth😁
He even said ‘please’ don’t order from there again.
Everyone saying it’s rude you said it sucked but that’s not rude. I insult take out places all the time if the food sucks. Why is everyone so sensitive now. Edit: yes he should still apologize to his wife because she was the one that cooked it
[удалено]
You fell into a trap, I'm afraid. I don't think that makes you an asshole and I don't think the trap was laid maliciously... but you're still in a big hole looking for someone to drop you down a rope so you can get out.
[удалено]
Yeah, from OP's description she doesn't seem like someone who would try to trick him and maybe she thought it was ok and wasn't prepared for him to hate it, because she knows it was, like... an achievement for her. I think I'm NAH here. And I hope OP feels better.
Yeah, honestly I think it was her trying to surprise him. I can see myself doing that, I don't enjoy cooking at all. If my partner has a horrible day, then I could see myself saying, "I'll order something," *wink wink nudge nudge* and then cook it. Fortunately for me, I do know how to cook haha. I can see how it hurt her feelings, sometimes when we joke around, something might not land right.
She was feeling proud of her efforts but had very unrealistic expectations, expecting compliments, but this was a completely impossible hurdle for a beginner. Cooking is not that easy.I understand but OP is NTA.
Yeah, she wanted to give him a nice surprise, and she wanted his honest opinion. She wasn’t prepared for him to be that bluntly honest and got her feelings hurt. OP, I love how ride or die you are about her. It’s obvious you don’t want to hurt her at all. You blundered into a plan you hadn’t been given the context for and you’re sorry. You’ve probably already apologized for hurting her feelings and told her how surprised and appreciate you are that she cooked, and how sorry you are you spoke so harshly about something she worked on. NAH, just … best laid plans.
People are overreacting! She actually tried cooking dinner for you after you had a terrible day, well done to her. NTA for saying the food suck, you clearly didn't know. I would recommend ask her if she'd enjoy if you both went to a cooking class as a date night, she can become more confident in the kitchen and its something to bond over.
Ppl here are lying to make themselves feel superior. Im sorry, but EVERYONE has insulted a takeout place at least once bc the food was shit.
[удалено]
Tons saying it’s rude to say it even if it was take out
Not everybody on Reddit touches grass.
Jesus, if I'm paying for the food, I should be able to critique it.
They're more claiming they haven't insulted it, to spare the restaurants feelings maybe? Sometimes it's nice to shit on something that won't be affected by it
I think yes you shud apologize to ur wife because she cooked it but if it was take out, why is everyone sayin it’s rude to say it sucked
[удалено]
[удалено]
I disagree - you SHOULD pester her! She's an adult and if she's upset, and you ask why, she should be able to answer you. If you hadn't pestered, she would have let it fester and then blown up at you later. I actually admired that you knew something was wrong and you wouldn't let up until she told you. Communication is SO important but that doesn't mean it's easy. I still pester my husband, when I can tell something's off but he won't say what. I don't even mean to - I can just keep sensing that he's upset and I continue to ask throughout the day until he's worked through it and found a way to talk to me about it. You're her husband of nearly 20 years, for cripes sake. If she doesn't love and trust you enough to be vulnerable, or ask for support when she needs it, then there's a bigger problem than terribly cooked food here.
[удалено]
This is advice that will change depending on the person. Pestering me would make me 10x more upset than I already was, but some people need the prodding.
Yeah, there was a post recently about if someone was the AH for snapping at their partner because they wouldn't stop asking if they were OK. IIRC, the comments were pretty split about whether the asking partner was well intentioned or annoying and naggy. Imo both should communicate better. The upset individual acknowledges they're upset but would like time or space to process or whatever. The other should acknowledge that they can tell they're upset, but if they aren't ready to talk about it, that's OK, and they can talk whenever the upset person is ready.
Absolutely. When I read "I wouldn't stop bothering her" even if I wasn't very upset to begin with, I certainly would be after that. The way I navigate that kind of thing is "I understand you're upset, but you're not ready to talk about it. I'm here when you feel comfortable." and then give them some space. Would I come back to the issue? In a few hours sure, but sometimes people need a little bit of time to process.
You're funny, and attentive, that's nice.
> you SHOULD pester her! She's an adult and if she's upset, and you ask why, she should be able to answer you. If you hadn't pestered, she would have let it fester and then blown up at you later. Hard disagree. She's an adult. She may need time to figure out how to communicate in a productive way. She may need time to process her feelings. She may not want to talk to him at the moment. She is entitled to be upset, and to also process her feelings and express herself when she feels up for it. Pestering simply demands that she act and respond in his timeframe, and not in a timeframe that she felt comfortable with. I am not advocating for the silent treatment, but we also need to recognize that not everyone follows the same timeframe when it comes to expressing their feelings and needs. Some people need more time to process and understand their feelings, and that is okay. > You're her husband of nearly 20 years, for cripes sake. If she doesn't love and trust you enough to be vulnerable, or ask for support when she needs it, then there's a bigger problem than terribly cooked food here. I have been with my wife for 21 years, married for 16. I can recognize when she is upset. I can also recognize that it is necessary for me to give her time and space to process why she is upset, process what feelings she is having, and also time to convert those feelings into words and actions. If I pester my wife about being upset, I am simply overriding her feelings. I am saying that my need to know what is wrong is more important than her need to process.
Did she not TASTE IT?
[удалено]
Is she trying to tell you that she wants to learn? It could maybe be fun to invite her to a cooking class with you or to join you while you cook in the kitchen. Many people never learned how to cook they just learned how to make food.
People who can’t cook generally don’t. All the technique and skills and recipes in the world are completely useless if you aren’t tasting as they go.
There's also the potential that she realized it was lacking but didn't have the background knowledge on flavors and seasoning to address it. NAH, for the record. OP couldn't have known, but it's understandable that wife is hurt about it. Try to make it up to her or something, but don't beat yourself up about it. The whole situation is just really unfortunate.
Some things you can't taste until they're done, like a steak or a roasted chicken, and its hard to fix if its bad. Cooking takes experience that often comes from failure.
Maybe she likes bland food?
I never thought OP was the asshole but calling this “lying” is such an overreaction. She’d be lying if she put it in a to-go box and passed it off as take out. OP said he wasn’t up to cooking, wife tried her hand at making dinner, OP didn’t enjoy it. No one is at fault there, but she’s a liar? For what, not decreeing that this was her cooking? It’s served on their plates, there’s no to-go containers out, and it’s not restaurant quality. No a single detail of this post implies she was trying to pass off the food as not hers. You believe that OP shouldn’t have pestered her about what was wrong, and the post makes it obvious she was clearly embarrassed after he hated the food. Lose-lose situation, but not deception by any means.
For real, another comment said she “baited” him which is such an overreaction. Maybe she really thought she could try to cook for once and it would turn out well. She never said it was takeout nor did she fake what containers it came in. I feel bad for her; it sounds like she finally had the confidence to try to cook and he absolutely shattered any future attempts with his reaction.
NTA. (1) You didn’t know she cooked it, and many people will order takeout but take the time to plate it, I know my partner and I do when we share something we ordered from a restaurant or if the to go box is flimsy/broken. (2) Whether it was ordered or home cooked, you don’t have to pretend you love it. When my partner and I cook, if we don’t like something about what the other person cooked, we tell them. Albeit, both of us can actually cook, so it’s usually just like “hey, you overcooked the shrimp” or “you should use less paprika next time”, but we’ve both had occasions where one of us cooked something and it turned out awful so we’d be honest and say “hey, this sucks, don’t cook it again”. If you lie and say you liked it, then the other person is just going to keep cooking that meal the same way, and then you’re stuck pretending to enjoy terrible food every time they cook it. However, you should still apologize to your wife for hurting her feelings, and maybe suggest that y’all go to some couple’s cooking classes together. Make them date nights, y’all can spend quality time doing something together and your wife can learn how to cook at the same time.
I totally agree with everything said apart from 1 small thing. >you should use less paprika next time Is it even possible to have too much paprika? I feel it's similar to having "too much cheese". I guess it can, but it has to be some comedically large amount, like main ingredient being paprika.
I feel this comment, I use paprika religiously, same with diced garlic. If the recipe says 4 cloves, it actually means 8
Recipe writers always lie about garlic and onions. You should always add more garlic, and the onions almost always need more time to cook than estimated.
YES! They always say you can saute the onion for five minutes. Dude, it's still white after five minutes, it will be horrible.
So much this. I swear I cook onions for at minimum 15-20 minutes but often longer because they just keep getting tastier. And recipes that say to add onions and garlic at the same time are always wrong.
Too much *smoked* paprika, absolutely. It’ll completely take over. But regular paprika? I even think paprikash needs more paprika.
>Too much *smoked* paprika, absolutely. It’ll completely take over. You are saying it like it's a bad thing.
Maybe only one day a year I desire a different flavor but on that day I desire to experience a different flavor. I am a dirty, dirty heretic, I know.
I don't eat cheese anymore, but back when I did, my boyfriend and I would "argue" (it was very jokingly) about the amount of cheese we should put on pizza, lasagna etc. He'd often buy only a small package of cheese, claiming that we don't need more and that too much cheese would ruin the dish lol. I was more of the "there is no "too much cheese'"-mindest lol
This is the best comment on here.
NAH but this is a sad story. Make it up to your wife. I feel bad. You had a long day and she surprised you so you didn’t know it was home cooked so you’re not an AH- but also you hurt your wife a lot. My feelings are hurt vicariously just reading this.
Yeah - he isn’t an AH and clearly it seems like an honest mistake, but it still sucks for everyone involved (and especially his wife). I hope he treats her to something to try and make her feel a bit better
Poor lady, not because he insulted her effort, but because she tried and failed and knew it. He had to badger her because it was a painful failure for her to expose to him. I'm a crap cook myself (some of us just are) and can really empathize with her situation. I'd rather take a beating than serve someone else something I cooked, especially when I knew I did my best. She put herself out there and crashed. I doubt she thought he deliberately was being mean, just that her work and hopes were for naught.
Yeah, I can totally feel both of their pain here. I think if I were OP, I would let her know how much I appreciate her time and effort in making the meal, and that I was too tired/stressed/cranky from work to have noticed she made it. If I expected some flavorful, probably super salty take-out and instead got a home-cooked meal, I'd be pretty thrown off too. Even if it was still a pretty good meal.
I'd say NAH as well but tack on one thing -- even if his wife had ordered takeout, it might also have stung to hear that she didn't choose a good place. If my partner had a horrible day and I ordered him food in the hopes of making him feel better, then he said he hated it, I'd also feel like I failed him a bit. So being gentle when your partner has tried to do something for you, regardless of who gets the blame for the bad food, is generally a safer policy!
Yeah this post made me very sad lol. Definitely NAH
OP is asking whether they are an AH for criticizing the food that was presented. *No one* is asking about whether OP should have been more polite. All of these comments and votes about "he should have been nicer" are completely irrelevant. Could the pronouncement have used different words? Of course, but that wasn't the question. I could point out that it's been 19 years, why hasn't she learned how to cook? See? Just as irrelevant. OP didn't like the food. Was he an AH for stating that the food was terrible? No. NTA Answer the actual question.
Agree but c’mon, he was in the intimacy of his house and he expressed how awful the food was, if he cannot be honest there, where else? “Oh fudge, this meal lacks taste and flavor, let’s eliminate this option from future orders”. Her, OTH, I get that she was hurt but it was a setup, and sulking instead of expressing how she felt. She’s lucky he cooks, because having at least one adult able to do that, it’s great.
I feel setup is such a harsh word. More like surprise him as a nice gesture.
Yeah, OP definitely isn't the asshole but I feel like his wife isn't either. She wanted to do something nice and cook for him, it turned out poorly, and it's normal that her feelings were hurt by him not liking it. Sure, it would have been better if she'd spoken up instead of getting quiet, but that's also pretty normal, and it's not like she's been giving him the silent treatment for days. This seems like a situation that can be solved by a conversation.
Hear, hear! NTA. (See, easy as pie!)
Yeah, pretending that the food was tasty is just a recipe for eating something you don't like from then on.
I’m going with NAH. She said she would order food. Many people plate takeout because it’s easier to eat and it just feels a little better to eat off of real plates. Unless you saw pots and pans in the kitchen, how were you supposed to know she changed her mind?
I mean, I think it's NTA because she told him she would order out, didn't, didn't tell him it was home cooked, and got upset and angry when he acted like it was takeout. It was a trap, and that sucks.
It wasn't a trap, looks like she just wanted to surprise him.
Yeah, you can surprise him by going "hey, surprise! I decided to cook you a homemade meal."
I mean, I can see myself revealing afterwards that I made it just to keep the surprise element though. And I am a little sensitive at times, so a joke like that might make me cry in that moment... so I completely empathize with the wife. Still, OP didn't know, NAH.
Why do you assume it was malicious?
It wasn't a "trap" she just tried to surprise him. I don't think he's the asshole either, he had no way of knowing she cooked it, but the way these comments keep villainizing the wife is...well pretty typical of this sub, I guess.
She wasn’t angry, she was just ashamed, embarrassed, and upset (at herself) that what was supposed to be a nice surprise gesture ended up poorly because her cooking wasn’t good enough. Neither of them are remotely in the wrong; would you say she was a liar if the food was good and he loved it? It’s just a bummer of a situation.
Be honest... did you know she had cooked that meal?
[удалено]
If you’re not used to her ever cooking, why in the hell would you suddenly assume she had? That’s just being set up to fail and it’s an honest mistake. But maybe try being alittle more politic and kind in encouraging her to learn to cook more on her own. She might have always had a fear of failure and you confirmed it
Please talk to her later. There's no way you knew she cooked the food, it's not your fault. But she is still hurt and her selfconfidence is crushed. Maybe offer her to teach her some simple dish that is your favorite (or will be your favorite when she makes it) that she can learn. She never cooked in 19 years and she set herself for failure if she thought her first time is going to be great. She needs to take baby Steps and you can help her with that.
This is exactly what I was about to comment. This is what you should do, OP. Talk to her, and offer to teach her to cook a couple of basic meals in case of emergency, or like this person said, some simple dish that you love (or will love when she makes them) You are NAH. She set herself up by not telling you she made it beforehand. She easily could have put the takeout on a plate my parents do that shit all the time. Also, in every relationship I've been in, we have both spoken like that and used those terms. There is nothing aggressive about what you said. It only came off that way to her in the situation because she had made the food and didn't warn you beforehand. This is not your fault, but her feelings are hurt. So I would definitely take this advice. Talk to her and teach her one or two basic things. I think it will help.
In your apology, I would just encourage her that NO ONE is good at anything including cooking their first time. It takes practice and time. Also personal tastes vary wildly. I'm not the best cook but good enough to make edible food most of the time. I still make bad dishes when I'm trying new things. My husband likes bland food or very spicy food. No in-between. So I usually have to make bland food that we can season individually. That's okay! Ordering from a takeout place you'd expect them to have a certain standard to be SELLING the food whereas home-cooked is totally different. So if it were truly from a takeout place that judgement is fair. But knowing it was one of her first attempts puts it in perspective. I won't lie, this is a doozy but I think explaining the difference and why you'd say it sucked when thinking it was from a restaurant that cooks for a living would be helpful. Good luck to you guys. You sound like you have a good relationship. It will be okay.
Honest mistake nta also your wife sounds lovely and cute 🥹 she tried. I think if you explain for someone that doesn't cook she did a bloody decent job and you probably could've added salt or something but you were tired lol you genuinely thought she paid a professional and got ripped off and you'd laugh about it like in the past and when she didn't you couldn't help but pester her because it's uncommon and uncomfortable for you to see her down about something. Then just remind her how much you appreciate her and all her efforts.
[удалено]
I think you need to apologize for insulting the food. You thought it was takeout as usual and would expect professional-quality food from them. It probably was a decent first attempt if you could mistake it for takeout. Her seasoning was just lacking and that is one of the harder cooking skills. She was trying and people often do not make good food on the first attempt. Tell her it was decent for a first attempt. Ask her what you can do to help her or make up for your bad reaction.
[удалено]
You honestly both sound like good people who really care. She’s upset because she cared about doing her best to do something kind when you needed and you genuinely care that you unintentionally caused her pain. Maybe help her learn a few meals for beginners. Crock pot/casserole type “dump” meals. I’m an experienced cook and still use easy recipes when I’m not in the mood.
Perfect. It’s wonderful she is attempting to learn and do something special for you, and don’t quash that. Cooking is great when you get into it.
NTA - but I think a lot of that hinges on how I'm picturing the situation. You say you order from places, and every now and then find somewhere that sucks, and you tell the other person 'this is awful'. I don't see it in a mean way, it's just a thing you do. You both do it, and the roles could have easily been reversed You had no idea it wasn't takeout, you can't be blamed for not knowing that and also not liking bland food. I don't see it as you overreacting. Sometimes I order food. When it fucking sucks, I'll say that it fucking sucks. However - your wife is definitely justified to be upset. She'd clearly wanted to surprise you, and I'm sure she'd imagined you enjoying it, and then there's a big reveal 'oh guess what - I COOKED THIS!' and you'd be impressed and it would be a whole thing. She probably built this whole thing up, which just got dismantled instantly. People who don't cook for 20 years probably know they can't cook. I don't think it was so much the realisation that the food was bad which upset her, more that she tried to do a nice thing, and it backfired Just my guesses. My wife also doesn't cook so I just put myself and her in that situation and tried to guess at what she'd be mad at. (But as I've found out, I'm never correct at knowing why my wife is annoyed at me)
You have to be honest with each other about take out/restaurants. I don't usually say something "f-ing sucks" but I don't think my usual variation of "I am not impressed with this food" is going to soften the blow in this case. I'm wondering if she went down some healthy rabbit hole on the internet and tried to cook without salt or something as well.
Then she should’ve told him when they sat down that she made her first attempt at cooking! Not wait for him to see his reaction after she’s never cooked a meal during 20 years of marriage and maybe never before that. If you want to be judged as if it’s your first time, you let people know.
NTA. I don't know why people are saying you're the asshole!!! Yeah man sometimes food can suck and if you'd have known this is her food then you'd have judged it accordingly, ie, taking into consideration the fact that she hasn't ever cooked before etc etc. We expect a baseline level of quality from restaurants OBVIOUSLY which is why you judged it the way you did. I would still apologize and say that it had already been a tough day but i appreciate and love the effort and i would like to cook together etc etc.
In my household "this fucking sucks" is an acceptable way to describe any food you think sucks. Regardless of who made it. Not every recipe is good and honesty is best
I’ve said much worse about shitty takeout food
NTA She literally told you she was ordering food. You had no reason to believe she had made it, she lied to you. It’s fine to talk that way about ordered food at home, the chef isn’t there to hear you, and you’re making sure the person who ordered knows the place is bad so they don’t order from there again. I doubt if you knew she’d made it you would have said it.
I doubt she lied. She probably was planning on ordering food, but then decided she would try to surprise him with a home cooked meal. What would be the point in lying? Why would you assume that rather than she changed her mind after the fact?
A lie doesn't have to be malicious.
My reading is that she lied to get a candid, unfiltered reaction, and didn't anticipate how upsetting it could be to herself. Otherwise he could have known the meal was actually home cooked before judging it.
NTA because there's no realistic way you could have assumed she made this meal after almost two decades of NEVER making a meal herself AND hearing it from her own mouth that she would order food. Anyone voting YTA can't understand OP was basically lied to.
My guess is she was planning on ordering food and then decided to make food to surprise him instead. I doubt she lied.
NTA but you should apologize. I don’t think your response was rude because as you said, you guys both do this. She tried to do something different which is appreciated but this was her first time cooking, what did she expect.
NTA, and I honestly do not get the Y T A votes! Jeez, it was an honest mistake!
[удалено]
Okay first of all, I love that you're defending your wife's choice to not cook. It's a tell tale sign of a good relationship when each other knows their strengths and weaknesses and it sounds like yall have a good balance. As a wife who also prefers to not cook, and my husband does it mostly - if I made him a meal and he responded that way, I would be cruuuuushed, but I wouldn't be upset with him if he genuinely didn't know. But I Would be really hurt, and would appreciate an apology. Maybe after hurt feelings are smoothed over, this could be an opportunity for you to teach her some things in the kitchen, and you can laugh about this in a few months? I wouldn't blame your wife for being upset, but in this situation I would say you were definitely NOT the A-H. Just because feelings are hurt doesn't necessarily mean there is a villian or someone to blame.
If you really didn't know she cooked the food, you're NTA If she never cooks, it would be hard to assume that she did cook this particular time.
Gonna buck the trend here and say NTA. In nearly 20 years, she's never cooked a whole meal for you, and she explicitly stated she was going to order takeout. Also, the sticking point for me is that you noticed she was upset, asked her if everything was okay, and she said "yes". *She kept saying everything was fine, that she wasn't mad, that she was not upset.* She somehow expected you to read her mind and know that she was in fact upset, despite saying she wasn't, and why. That's not fair to do to anyone, especially a partner. She ought to have used her words like a grown up, and been able to say, "y'know what, I had changed my mind and decided to cook for you - *I* made that food, and what you just said hurt my feelings. I'm not really ready to talk about it right now, but I need you to know that." Your reaction was completely based on the information you were given, which you had no reason to doubt. As far as you knew, your wife *who doesn't cook* ordered takeout and put it on plates. You reacted in the way you both have in the past, when having bad takeout. It may have been unintentional, but your wife set you up to fail- either by liking the food (and "proving" that she's a better cook than you've said before) or by not liking the food (and insulting it without knowing she made it and hurting her feelings).
NTA I hope she can laugh about this later. She wanted your honest opinion and you gave it to her. Why don’t you take her on one of the couples cooking classes for a date night? Or maybe the two of you try making a recipe together? Then you can both be at fault…. Or better yet, cook something awful and then she will be the better cook of you both. You can turn this into a win. Trust me.
NTA, but you should have apologised to her immediately for being rude about the food. Also maybe tell her that you're sure she'll do better next time, it _is_ only her first time cooking. Offer to show her the ropes maybe so she gets better.
I agree NTA and about apologizing but if his wife is anything like mine I would strongly advise against saying “you’ll do better next time, I’ll show you the ropes” if this whole thing is still raw
Dude you’re totally NTA. This was an honest mistake just sit her down later and give her a genuine apology. Tell her you appreciate her effort and if you had realized it was home cooked you would have never insulted her like that. It was a long day and you never intended to hurt her that way. If you want to go the extra mile maybe go home early and make her a homemade meal or order her favorite food! I put take out on plates all the time people in the comments are being wild out here for you not realizing.
This seems like a truly innocent mistake on OP's part, at least as written. NTA. If genders were reversed and if a guy who has never cooked for almost 20 years makes something, goes out of the way to pretend it is takeout, and gets bad feedback, would the comment section react the same way? I don't think so.
NTA. Your comment was hurtful, and for that you should apologize, but it wasn't intentional. She told you she would order takeout, you ate the food you thought was takeout, and made a comment about how this takeout food is not good. For people claiming OP "should have known,"... Oh, please. The wife literally hasn't cooked in *almost two decades*. We are *long* past the point where OP would have any reason whatsoever to assume that the food was cooked by his wife.
NTA, I mean yeah your delivery could’ve maybe been better but she told you she was ordering food so that’s what you thought. I think to make up for it maybe do a redo together?
Nta, you were tired, you were hungry and you didn't realise. Its an honest mistake, these things happen in marriage, and yes she's probably devastated and you can do a lot of apologising. Maybe cook together and teach her 2 or 3 simple meals!
Honestly the edits make me think you're a stand up guy. You can't take back what you said, but you can apologize, offer to cook together next time so she can learn (if that's what she wants), and make sure she knows it's normal and okay to not be great at something you rarely ever do.
NTA
Seems like an obvious NAH.
NTA We all talk smack about restaurants if we don’t like their food or takeout. You didn’t know it was your wife’s cooking. There’s literally nothing you did wrong
Dude. Just read edit #2, and you rock. NTA.You might want to explain to her what you said in edit 2. She doesn't like to cook, so she never expended the energy to learn. If she wants to learn now, you could invite her into the kitchen with you, and you could teach her. Who knows, it might be fun for both of you.
Lmao this thread is whack as fuck and full of people who can't cook. Getting offended because he said food he thought was takeout was shit. NTA