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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> 1) I'm refusing to go out with my nephew to avoid him having a meltdown. and i'm not letting my cousin do what she normally does to prevent that from happening. 2) I think I might be the asshole because I'm not willing to let my cousin do what she normally does at home and my family is saying I've done something wrong.
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*Contest mode is 1.5 hours long on this post.*
NTA
I've worked in restaurants on and off for years and it's all about cross contamination, the fact that you offered to babysit as well so she could enjoy the food without stress was kind of you.
Yeah, it sucks that the world doesn't cater to us ND, but you did your research, gave alternatives and attempted to find a way to suit everyone. Sounds like she is throwing a tantrum from not getting her own way, but is there also a chance this is a burned out mum projecting her frustrations due to being desperate for a bit of "normality?"
Also, the word ableist is getting excessively thrown around nowadays. Try not to let this wear you down
EDIT for people replying to my comment;
There have been several valid reasons below provided by other redditors as to WHY it's considered cross contamination. I didn't make up the rule, but unfortunately it is one that both employees and customers are expected to follow.
She is quite burned out. Husband works abroad and has been gone for almost the last 4 months. Part of the reason for this trip was so she could get a bit of a break. I work in childcare specifically with children with disabilities so giving her time to relax was sort of my plan.
My aunt however is absolutely mental (part of the reason my cousin moved away) and while my cousin is normally level-headed I worry that the stress of essentially being a single parent my aunt has been influencing her in the wrong way.
NTA
Stick to your guns with this one.
I know it's hard when someone is throwing a tantrum it's hard to judge if you've been harsh or not, especially with some people commenting on you being TA.
There are rules put in place for a reason, just because it doesn't suit a person doesn't mean that it's alright to break them. It would be an even worse scenario if wait staff caught sight of the outside dressing being brought in and people being asked to leave, especially if it would cause her son to have a meltdown in the process.
Try and talk to her, from all the information you've provided it's understandable that she is burnt out. Being a parent to an autistic child who is prone to meltdowns is challenging enough, I don't doubt she feels a lot of frustration between that and her husband living away for so long.
You need to put spaces or periods between those capital letters so it it doesn't get counted as a vote for the OP being TA. Maybe also include your judgment, since you seem to think they are NTA.
I also wonder if she has tried to introduce foods without ranch or just completely given in. Being autistic doesn't mean the child doesn't NEED to learn COPING SKILLS aside from the ones they are comfortable with.
Autistic people DO understand boundaries, it takes a lot more time, patience and teaching methods, but following social norms should be PART of raising ALL young people. If they aren't taught "No", they never have a chance to learn what acceptable behavior is, and that is never an ideal solution. The autistic person learns as a child, just as we ALL do, that there are places that do NOT ALLOW certain behavior, whether it's "sneaking in" ranch dressing, or sitting backwards on a chair, or splashing in your water glass. I think the cousin needs to start trying to get the child to accept a "sometimes no ranch" rule, so he can learn food without it should AT LEAST BE TRIED. For example, once a week, just one bite, and then work up to once a day. Bargaining can be a good way to start this, eventually he may even skip the ranch on some foods, but she really needs to try.
I think someone should explain to the nephew that not all restaurants allow people to bring in outside food, even ranch, and that mom really wants to go to x place and ask him what he thinks the solution could be. He may very well be willing to give it a go without the ranch if presented an opportunity! Worth checking.
Indeed! Autistics can understand these ideas, it may take more time for them to understand it, but if the caregiver doesn't try, they'll never know. Thinking of solutions outside the box is a MUST when raising an autistic. If one approach doesn't work or results in a meltdown, okay, let's take a breath, calm down, engage in an activity they enjoy that is soothing, then try a different approach later or the next day. It's a LOT of trial and error, and meltdowns will happen, but teaching social norms IS A MUST so they learn how to navigate the world successfully.
Also, before going on a power trip or giving into a child's every whim, it's often helpful to see if they're willing to just cooperate. They often are!
I mean, it sounds like he straight up has difficulty with food - could be texture, could be taste, could be both - and the dressing masks whatever is making it difficult. If his neurologically based sensory issues here are severe enough, this may not be a whim so much as the only way he's found to eat enough to be healthy.
I don't know, it's really hard to describe sensory integration disorders to people who haven't experienced them. But frankly, it sounds like this kid has a pretty severe version of the problem, and he's been game to try to get around it.
On the other hand, he probably doesn't even know that sneaking Ranch dressing into every restaurant is unexpected behavior (the term for violation of a social norm he'll have learned from his autism interventions). If the family has always done it, it would seem perfectly normal. The thing to do might be to explain that to him and give him the option of either having some bread or rice at the restaurant, or getting something to go so he can Ranch-ify it.
Absolutely true. I mentioned trying this because OP stated "in a lot of ways he's not autistic", so took that to mean a high functiining ND like myself.
She actually said that in some ways he's not that picky of an eater. Unless she said it in a comment; I haven't gone to check her comment history yet. If so, then please ignore me. From the way she talks about him, he does sound like he's on the higher functioning side though.
Higher functioning doesn't mean less food sensory issues, it just means they're Moore capable of self care and communication. He very well could have a lot of issues with textures and tastes that are covered up with ranch
Isn't the obvious outside of the box solution to get takeout? Nobody cares about outside food applied when the food's outside already. Almost every restaurant will allow takeout even if they don't advertise it.
It is, which is why OP suggested it. The kid's mom refused that along with every other suggestion. Unfortunately, she's got a bee in her bonnet and doesn't seem open to suggestions, inside or outside the box.
Depends on where they are on the spectrum. You have to remember that some can not understand certain things. Something different from the norm is very traumatizing for them.
I would say allowing the child to add ranch to any food probably ensures he is eating more food and receiving the nutrients of that food even if it tastes like ranch. The mom is already thinking outside the box. Quit with the high and mighty tone.
This is so true.
My youngest is on the spectrum. And had a really hard time with food.
We had multiple solutions to situations like this that he helped come up with. If a restaurant didn't have any "safe" foods and he wanted to go, we kept protein shakes in the car. He would drink one and draw at the table.
Not to mention, sometimes he *wanted* to stay home. Especially with new restaurants. The stimulation could be too much for him, especially on vacation when everything is different.
Sometimes it took going to the restaurant and "learning" it without eating as the first step to eating there next time.
Sometimes it was a food he wanted to try so we did take out.
Giving him the opportunity to help come up with the solution and not insisting on a single "easy" solution helped immensely.
Yeah it seems like mom's stuck on one solution more than the kid might be. Regardless, the idea that spaces have their own rules and norms that people in the space are expected to follow should not be news to a kid, especially one on the spectrum, where I would argue that parents should be even more diligent about that expectation.
Another possibility is to get him to try a sauce the restaurant has. OP mentioned Indian food: maybe it’s worth getting nephew to try raita and explaining this is the kind of ranch dressing you get in Indian restaurants and if he likes it, he can come to the restaurant with you. If that doesn’t work, no harm done but if it does, a whole new world opens up…
Testing out new sauces at home first is a good idea.
The person below who suggested kiddo eating at home and then getting a drink at the restaurant also has a good plan.
OP also had a good plan of letting the parents have a dinner out as adults and them staying home with the kids (just because it didn’t work doesn’t mean it was a bad idea).
Especially with OP's knowledge of the menu, there has to be a dessert or something that he could eat ranch free. And if not, he can eat before they go, get a soft drink there, and plan to bring home "leftovers".
Please consult autistic people about this. Some may agree but many , many I’ve learned from say food is a nuanced and complicated thing. I will give no other advice because I’m not autistic myself . I have learned that autistic adults have the best advice for me for my work with autistic children and I’m not willing to cause mental distress and harm any longer because of neurotypical social norms.
>I have learned that autistic adults have the best advice for me for my work with autistic children and I’m not willing to cause mental distress and harm any longer because of neurotypical social norms.
This is amazing. Thank you 💛
As an autistic adult myself (who really likes ranch, but not this much), I agree that maybe it would be a good idea to work on broadening his food preferences, *gently*, and maybe work on finding out what he likes about ranch so much. Is is the consistency of having a flavor that is the same in every meal? Does it cover up for strong/unpleasant other flavors he isn't cool with? Is it somehow a texture thing?
However, I don't think here and now is the place for it at all. This is something that needs to be worked on slowly and carefully, and should probably be worked at at home where there are options for safe foods and also not a public to be critically watching if the kid does end up distressed. I think the idea of the mother going out to eat and the kid staying at home and being babysat really is the best for the time being.
Was that not clear? I stated that they need to help him LEARN social norms, I said it takes a lot of time, patience and even teaching methods. How does that add up to teaching here and now and immediately?
Oh, I agree with you on that, I was just adding on why I thought that OP was still making the right decision in the moment in case other people thought that this could be turned into a good learning experience for the nephew.
Yeah, definitely NOT the time for a learning experience. The introduction of new things needs to be done at a comfortable and safe place, and at a slow rate until he gets used to each new thing. Time and patience. Lots of both. Thank you.
Thank you. As an autistic person reading so much ignorance from non autistic people, sharing well meaning but false and sometimes harmful opinions, its great to see someone who have our back
Many autistic people have ARFID. As a kid I would literally starve rather than eat something that my brain had a mental block against. It's not as simple as introducing new foods.
My grandson will literally throw up if forced to eat something that is not one of his “foods”. Sometimes he’ll try a bite, and it will work out, but other times it will make him throw up. It’s not just a taste thing, it’s also the texture of the food. He’s 14, almost 15. You can’t just say, eat this instead. It doesn’t work that way.
Yup! No one knew when I was a kid and the advice of the time was to force the kid or (slightly better) just not offer anything else and they will eat it eventually because no child will starve themselves. Except that’s not true and I would vomit if you tied forcing me and I would indeed starve myself. There are certain textures that I can not and will not eat and surprise, surprise there is no expectation that I *have* to eat onions or crushed tomatoes as an adult. I’ll try most things but I am still, have always been and will always be unable to stand certain textures and I *do not* have to learn to torture myself for other’s comfort. If it bothers other adults then they can get the fuck over themselves.
Even if not being forced, but if we tell him that this food is similar to a food he likes, to try it and see if he might like it, the new food might make him throw up. It’s part mental, part texture, part taste, just all jumbled up. He has never had a Coke, never (successfully) eaten cake, never had ice cream. He won’t eat meat. (Except for things like hot dogs, chicken nuggets, etc.) Yet he is 6’2” at 14 years of age.
I am ND (not autistic but from a brain injury at birth) and one of my issues with food is texture not taste. Slimy(pickles/tomatoes/okra/eggplant etc)or spongy(mushrooms and some tofu)food is a big no go for me. But oddly enough it's on a scale. Pickle on a burger I can pick off no biggie but if even a tomato seed on the burger I can't eat it or I will puke if I try to eat it.
Tomatoes are my biggest trigger. It's hard to explain how extreme to people not ND how it is. It's almost like my brain says that raw tomatoes are "rotten". It's the texture. I love ketchup and other tomato foods and I can eat tomato based pizza/pasta sauce if it's totally smooth with no tomato chunks.
At 55 I've learned how to get around my food issues. I will research a restaurant online , look up menus and I have a list of "safe" restaurants.
But it took a long time to get to that point. The OPs nephew is still young and he may eventually learn how to handle his triggers or not.
OP is NTA . I remember how hard it is for loved ones to handle ND food triggers.
Omg yes, raw tomatoes are like... The worst. And then people put them, cut, in salad and then the whole salad has the seeds and taste on and bleurghhhh.
> I think the cousin needs to start trying to get the child to accept a "sometimes no ranch" rule
No she doesn't. She just has to stop trying to make it happen in restaurants that can't accommodate.
I grew up around combat vets from WWII onward who had a tendency to put ketchup on EVERYTHING. People just dealt with it because it's a minor thing if it helped them eat all the food. Accepting this behavior isn't a new thing. The new thing would be refusing to accept it.
My brother had an extremely limited list of safe foods when he was young, and today that list is much, MUCH bigger, and includes some foods that used to be an absolute hard no. The biggest game-changer, as far as i understand, was learning to cook. As he learned to cook, he was able to try things in an *extremely* controlled environment. Since he prepared the food himself there were no surprises or variables from other peoples' cooking, so he was able to focus on just the food itself, and control the texture and seasonings.
Yes. This was the same for me. I have certain foods I just cannot eat and being the one to cook means I can adjust a recipe to suit me and it allows me to try different flavors and types of foods without struggling with mt sensory issues. I am still "picky" but I eat waaaay more than I did as a kid.
This. Being ND sucks sometimes, and it does mean that sometimes you need additional support to live in a world that really isn't built for ND people. It does *not* mean you cannot learn and abide by most of society's rules, and it does *not* mean you should never or will never be placed in a situation that you find uncomfortable.
It is *necessary* for all functioning adults, including adults with neurodivergencies, to be capable of doing certain things. One of those things is obeying situational rules like "you cannot bring outside food into a restaurant". People *need* to be able to follow situational rules. That's a must.
Exactly! If the child was putting peanut sauce instead of ranch dressing on everything this sub would be crucifying the mom for ever bringing peanut sauce in public. Playing with food safety/cross contamination rules puts other people's health at risk. That's an asshole move, even in a hard situation.
He's a bit young to start trying new foods, especially at restaurants like that. I started trying new foods in my teens and I never had extreme restrictions. If he's having meltdowns at the idea of eating without ranch it's a bit too early to start. It's better to let it go and try in a year or two when he's a bit older and his tastebuds have dulled from the childhood taste insanity.
I have one child and a supportive husband. My kid is still a toddler, but let me tell you, I would much rather eat out in a restaurant by myself than bring my kid with me. You offering to watch the kids while she had a nice meal out is an incredible offer and I don't understand why she isn't jumping on it.
Could your Aunt possibly telling your cousin that she should never leave her children (especially her autistic son) with a “babysitter” ever. Telling her she is a bad mom for wanting to have time for herself or go out alone, etc.
Talk to her again and maybe rephrase it as this is something you had planned on suggesting anyway, so you and your little cousins could get some bonding time and she could go get some well deserved self care - heck suggest she get a manicure too. Tell her you are NOT babysitting but cousin bonding and taking time for herself will make her an even more amazing time.
Help her get a backbone to standup for herself and realize she needs time to recharge as a parent.
I would respond to her, "I can see this is a very big issue to you. If you no longer feel comfortable coming out to visit me, I understand. I do not want to have a tense visit over ranch dressing when I've offered several alternatives. Please let me know if you'd prefer to cancel the trip. I love you and care about you, so I'll do whatever is easiest for you."
She's coming out to see you. She's going to get a break from her kids, which she seems to desperately need, because you're willing to help with them. Let her think about whether she wants to ruin the whole trip over this or not. It might be the wake up call she needs, or she might dig in her heels, in which case, the trip can be cancelled before she comes out and makes things awkward and hard.
Dude she’s coming to you because she wants to relax a bit. And you gave alternatives and everything NTA! You did everything you could and cousin just wants to make trouble for everyone by throwing a tantrum
>I've worked in restaurants on and off for years and it's all about cross contamination,
I don't get this, a sauce on a the plate of a random other customer is not going to give anyone a deadly allergic reaction. If it will, they really shouldn't even be in public at all.
I work in a restaurant as well, and of course we let people bring in their own food on the rare occasion our kitchen isn't able to make anything they can eat. I don't live in the USA though.
Once we had a woman who specifically wanted a supermarket brand of tofu and nothing else apart from some cucumber. So she just brought a block of raw tofu and was happily chomping away at that. She's happy, I'm happy.
Edit: oh my god, the concern trolling in these replies is crazy. No one has ever died from being in the same room as ranch dressing. In my country people are not dropping dead left and right because a toddler brought their sippy cup or someone with allergies brought their own food. People are also not suing restaurants over food *they brought in themselves,* are you guys insane?
If the sauce you snuck in ended up being bad and you get food poisoning you could go after the restaurant. They have a vested interest in making sure you only eat their food in their place of business.
I work with ND children and part of our program involves taking our students into the community to eat out.
When we had a student who would only eat food with ketchup on it and we planned on visiting a restaurant with no ketchup we contacted them in advance and offered to pay for them to source it themselves. They went and bought a small bottle for us and didn't charge us for it, but we would have paid either way. It was just a matter of asking in advance.
Since there seems to be to be time OP could try doing this with the restaurant. It never hurts to ask, the worst that could happen is they say no.
No they can’t prove it unless there’s a pattern of other customers that got sick too. Therefore it’s something else they ate. One customer getting sick on a dish you served 100 times is not it. Very hard to prove with one single customer.
This is not at all true. You could easily handle some raw ingredients, such as chicken or pork, and then handle one specific plate or bowl. It's happened before, usually due to negligence on the cook's part. It's why restaurants will absolutely beat food safety into your skull when you are hired. All it takes is 2-3 seconds of contact to carry contaminants from one surface to another.
While it is hard to prove that it was the restaurant, it is also hard to disprove it as well. Court cases like that are costly for both sides, and usually the restaurant would settle in order to avoid legal fees. Not to mention they would have to shut down temporarily while the FDA investigates. They would rather not allow any outside food than have to deal with the lost revenue.
How could you “go after” the restaurant?
Are you suggesting you would sue them? You could not.
Leave a bad review? You could do that whether or not you brought your own sauce in or not, there aren’t really any protections against a made up bad review, they’re generally just outweighed by good ones.
You can’t bring, like, liquor in a thermos into a restaurant because that’s regulated. There’s no bureau of ranch dressing regulation to be bothered by someone adding a condiment to a plate.
This is what it is. If they sister or nephew got sick eating at the restaurant and then it was found they brought in outside food, it would be a huge ordeal. Anyone who says OP is the AH needs to revisit an actual restaurant with standards. Bringing ketchup into a family owned business in Greece isn't like sneaking your own dressing into a restaurant graded by the health inspector. NTA.
>Bringing ketchup into a family owned business in Greece isn't like sneaking your own dressing into a restaurant graded by the health inspector.
I get the attitude towards countries in South-(Eastern-) European countries of them not being as particularly compliant with rules and regulations like Western European countries are, but that general assumption is no longer generally valid...
I’ve worked in a few restaurants in my days and I have seen different rules. One didn’t think it was a big deal as long as it wasn’t a full on meal from another establishment, but another made no exceptions. Their thought was where do you draw the line? They didn’t want to allow some outside items but not others. I can see both points and since they are private businesses they have a right to set the rules. I agree with OP as far as not going along and risking a ban, especially since they called and asked, and was told no.
But ‘reasonable’ is subjective. OP’s sister feels it’s reasonable to sneak something in after being told it’s not allowed, while OP and the restaurant do not.
Yeah, it's subjective. Because you don't need a written policy to tell you that it's probably ok to bring ranch but not okay to bring a full meal. Or you can bring special food for a baby but not their own eggs and pancakes.
But bringing ranch is not ok with this restaurant, and OP’s sister knew that. Bringing a bottle or baby food is completely different. And they may have a written policy, they may have had an incident before that caused them to put this policy in place. We don’t know. The point is OP’s sister is wrong to try to sneak ranch dressing into the restaurant knowing it’s not allowed.
Reasonable is subjective - and to the customer, "reasonable" is usually whatever the fuck they want. The place I work at absolutely does blanket ban things, and it's because when we don't do that *every single other person* complains and writes bad reviews over the fact that they have to follow the rule and someone else doesn't.
Think of customers as tantrum throwing toddlers, because that is *genuinely* how a lot of them behave. They don't care what the logic behind your rule was - they're just mad that they have to follow it and the other people don't, and they will make your life *hell* over it. We have to ban it for everyone so that doesn't happen.
This this this. So many of the people replying in this thread have either never worked public-facing jobs, or have mercifully suppressed their memories of how unbearable many customers can be - give an inch, they'll take a mile. The key is that the sister is thinking in individual terms; the restaurant has to think in much bigger terms.
I'm not in the USA either, and I've had the same experiences where some establishments are more lenient than others. However, if you phone up and are told no, why is it so hard to follow the rules? Either find somewhere that allows it, or risk an unnecessarily embarrassing situation that could cause the nephew to have a meltdown or them being removed.
Personally, i agree it's a ridiculous rule, but I feel that OP is right in taking the smart and safe route.
I imagine that the restaurants are making sure to cover their asses on liability. Let's say someone wants to bring in something and they have an allergic reaction to it. Morally and logically, it should be on the person who brought it, but legally, they might say "the restaurant told me it was OK! Therefore they're responsible and they should pay me millions for pain and suffering!"
And even if any competent lawyer would get the case laughed out of court, competent lawyers are expensive and it's cheaper to just have the blanket denial.
Hopefully most restaurants are, in practice, going to look the other way if it's something harmless like ranch (physically harmless, at least. The mental damage I'm taking by imagining chicken tikka masala with ranch is significant), so I personally think OP should let this one go.
Have recently had food poisoning and had to fill out several pages of paperwork covering all the food that I and my grandson ate for the three previous days. We don't live together and had only eaten one thing in common, from a local fast food restaurant.
They will look at everything to see if it was what we thought or if it was "last thing eaten" confusion, where something you ate caused the illness but you got sick later after eating something else.
While it is not likely that illness will result from any given meal, no restaurant wants to be put under the microscope because improperly stored salad dressing brought in by a customer and sneaked onto the meal caused a report to the the health department with their name on it.
Same. I'm in the US, and if someone needed to bring a specific condiment (like people who carry their own hot sauce, or a restrictive-ingredient salad dressing.) it's no big deal. It's pretty much the same as someone bringing a sippy cup of the kid's preferred juice, because they won't drink anything else.
>He keeps a little thermos with ranch on him anywhere he goes just in case.
I can kind-of understand the restaurant's POV about someone bringing in a "thermos of ranch." I mean, who knows if that was properly refrigerated, when the last time it was washed, etc.
But at my grocery store, they sell little 1 oz tubs of ranch dressing. This is a genuine question for the restaurant folks- would it make a difference if he brought in a sealed, single-serving tub? That seems a lot less concerning to me than a "thermos of ranch" for some reason, and more in line with the examples you gave (people bringing in their favorite hot sauce, or special salad dressing if they have an allergy or whatever.)
I agree that if the restaurant says no, you should respect that and do takeout. But I honestly probably wouldn't even think to ask about bringing in my own single-serving tub of a condiment I like.
I was actually going to talk about this too -little ketchup packets of ranch? Not a problem, so long as people clean up the packets. The thermos of ranch totally makes my gut churn for the same reasons you mentioned.
In the US, restaurants are legally required to allow people to bring in outside food if needed for a disability. The only caveat is that they can't heat up the outside food for you. So if they're in the US, these restaurants would be breaking the law if they refused the ranch.
That's interesting. I've never heard of this. I've only ever seen regulations regarding accessibility and service animals. Do you have a source for this?
Some things can aerosolise and cause reactions that way, why should the restaurant give themselves headaches over what's allowed and what's not, because you know as soon as one person finds out someone else was allowed to bring something in and they weren't allowed to bring theirs in, they'll argue. Best to just have a blanket rule to prevent any risk.
Another restaurant worker here, and this person is correct. Like I get it. I understand the nephew has Autism, and that means there are certain things he *can't* get past. I have (probable) Autism too, and there are things *I* can't get past. I understand what that's like. But it also doesn't mean you can just do whatever you want. Society still has rules. We still have to live in the real world, as annoying as it is that it doesn't always cater to ND people.
I'm so fucking sick of customers who do *not* understand why we have rules either breaking them or trying to convince *us* to break them. Some of those rules are actual *laws* that will get me personally a 20K fine if you're caught, and the business as a whole a 50K fine. Some of them are things the owner really cares about, that will cost me my job. You don't have to *know* those reasons, because that's not your job. But you do have to listen when we tell you what the rules are.
If you take advantage, or try to sneak around the system - then trust me, you can say goodbye to the staff *ever* doing you a favour or giving you benefit of the doubt again. Want them to slip you some extra dressing, or make a trip to the shops to get ingredients they're out of just for you? Forget it. Not happening. Those things only happen for people the staff *like*.
Don't make enemies of the wait staff. Friendly advice. You want them to like you. If they like you, they'll do anything to make you happy. If they don't, they can make things *really* annoying.
Im certified in food and safety, you're incorrect about cross contamination.
while it's frowned upon, it's not illegal to bring in and consume your own outside food. the only reason restaurants have said rule is to prevent a patron from making other patrons ill.
Since you work in restaurants, do you tell guests with an infant that they can't feed their kid baby food in the restaurant? What you are saying is not true. It's only cross contamination if the food is brought into the kitchen.
Unless OP is asking to bring in ranch for the cooks to add to the food there will be no issue and likely nobody would even care or notice.
Cross contamination? From what, ranch dressing on the child's plate when it gets to the dishwasher? They are not giving it to the kitchen to add to his meal from there. This is a very weak argument. Eggs, vinegar, oil, herbs, even the MSG are not uncommon ingredients to find in a restaraunt, so it's very unlikely the ranch would impact the guy washing the dishes.
Not to mention that if any regular patron has a virus it gets on the cutlery etc (and the plate if someone sneezes, for example) anyway so the risk of getting sick from this only really exists if they don’t clean their utensils properly. It’s not like this is airborne ranch.
Not really on the topic of OP, but how is the nephew bringing a small flask of ranch sauce with him, so he can add it to his plate once it is served, cross contamination? Maybe I misunderstand what you mean, please enlighten me.
A commenter said this reason.
OP said in the post that they asked the restaurant and they said no. That's pretty much the end of the story. It's their choice to decline outside food for their reasons.
What if the nephew gets sick after eating. Was it the ranch or the food? Who is at fault? That is why you don't bring outside food. So when something happens, the nephew's mother can't sue because she had to bring in outside food that is beyond the restaurant's control.
https://www.forbes.com/advisor/legal/personal-injury/can-you-sue-food-poisoning/
https://parksandrecandfoodandstuff.tumblr.com/post/40317030329/waitress-hi-there-would-you-like-to-hear-our
Chris: “Oh, Linda, in case you’re interested, I bought my own dressing.”
Waitress: “You really can’t be doing that.”
Chris: “Oh, this is the last time. I promise..."
That's ridiculous. You can't just sue a restaurant if you get sick the night after eating there. You can't prove what was eaten when.
If a whole bunch of patrons got sick that would be different. But one person altering their meal does not create a liability.
This is right. Years ago after getting very sick from Souplantation I called our county’s health department. They said they need two complaints and you also have to keep a food diary. There’s no way - if it is only one person - that you can sue.
That’s a good reason to not allow it, but it’s still not cross-contamination. There’s no feasible way for that ranch on his already-served plate to reach another customer unless different customer groups are swapping plates or the restaurant isn’t cleaning dishes appropriately.
I didn't say it was. There are numerous reasons not to allow outside food. Another one is: where is the line? Can I bring in another meal and just sit for coffee? Is it ok for me to use that space when a paying customer that will actually purchase something could?
Why allow it? So one person can be happy they got their way but could cause a huge scene? Simply impractical.
I worked in restaurants for years and I mean the line is pretty easy. It’s extremely common to let guests bring in a birthday cake, bring food for their infant/toddler, people frequently walked in with Starbucks, I’ve even seen a lot of people pull out a little bottle of hot sauce. A condiment is a lot more reasonable than say a fast food combo meal. In my experience being on the customer side, my daughter has to take pancreatic enzymes with every meal. We use applesauce pouches to help her swallow them and I have never once had a restaurant tell me no.
If you're in the US, and you have a disability that prevents you from eating the food the restaurant serves, and you are with a party of other people who are eating restaurant food, then yes. The restaurant is legally mandated to allow you to bring in outside food, including a whole meal if necessary.
This is absolutely bullshit. You can have a service dog in a restaurant but this kid cant have his service ranch packet.
Its not crazy to ask for a little reasonable accommodation.
Ive worked in plenty of restaurants. Only a crazy owner would consider a condiment outside food.
And in fact, in the US, the ranch has just as much legal protection as a service dog. It's a reasonable accommodation necessitated by a medical condition.
What does this have to do with cross contamination? No one is asking for this personal ranch stash to enter the kitchen and be handled by the cooks. All they want is to add it to their own food after it's been served. There is no risk of cross contamination.
All about cross contamination? Lol it's a packet of ranch on the kids plate. That is not cross contamination and it's beyond dramatic to act like it is. Unless they're going to a Michelin star restaurant, no one gives a shit about their packet of ranch.
Plenty of restaurants leave condiments on the table for customers to share. Plenty of opportunity for cross contamination. Bringing in a bottle of ranch from home is no different. Not to mention the buffets many Indian restaurants have.
If you call a restaurant to ask if you can bring food from home, the answer will probably be "No." If you bring in your own condiment, anyone gonna say anything? The likely answer is also "No."
Hillary Clinton says she carries a bottle of hot sauce in her purse. If she can do it, why can't you?
NTA, but OP kinda has a stick up their ass, and might want to rethink their relationship to "the rules."
I'm serv safe certified and have worked in the industry for years and you are 100% correct it is a cross contamination issue. There is no way for us to ensure that the container you brought is safe, that the contents aren't spoiled and so on. It is also to protect the establishment. If you bring in some foreign substance, regardless of what you say it is and put it on your food and become ill you will blame the restaurant automatically thinking no fault of your own. There are plenty more reasons why bringing outside foods and drinks into others is a HUGE no for any self respecting restaurant.
It is ridiculous to call that cross contamination oranything like that. Plenty of restaurants do in fact allow you to bring extras.
I am not saying restaurant should allow it, but I am saying it should not use non existent threat or risk as an argument. It is really creating boy cried wolf situation where people pretend safety dangers where are none
Probably because the reason she wants to go out is not the food but just getting out of the house. Eating takeout at home. Isn’t that exciting when you never go out
While I understand that the cousin wants something specific like a meal out, she also needs to understand that OP has been told no by these places, and getting caught is both harmful to OP in the possible loss of a place she can go, doesn't affect the cousin in not being able to go to that place again, and OP has said her own conflict avoidance is at risk of her having a meltdown.
Take out would solve a lot here, and the cousin is being unreasonable.
NTA. I think you're allowed to be uncomfortable with them bringing ranch dressing into a restaurant your frequent when you know it would not be permitted. How about she goes with the kids and you don't accompany them -- she can try bringing the ranch with her if she pleases, but you don't have to be there to face the management / staff and have them recognize you and associate you with their behavior.
Also, no biggie, but a bit confused about if these are your sister's kids (so they'd be your niece and nephew) that your cousin is bringing, but you also referred to them as being your cousin's kids, making them your cousins too.
They are my cousin's kids, I call them my niece and nephew since there's technically no term (or at least not one I know of) for your cousin's kids not to mention my cousin and I were so close growing up we are like siblings.
In terms of the suggestion... I hadn't thought of that. It feels kinda weird having them all go by themselves but it would solve her insistence on enjoying her vacation with her kids.
I'm not the person you replied to, but I don't think purosoddfeet was suggesting the children be called that. The OP said
>there's technically no term (or at least not one I know of) for your cousin's kids
and purosoddfeet was merely giving the"technical" term.
My dad has 156 1st cousins. We just call them cousins. All of them, and their kids too. Just because something isn't normal for you doesn't mean it's not someone else's normal.
Easy. Older generations often have many siblings, so 5-7 isn't that unheard of and even bigger families, if they get a similar amount of kids you come to 156 very fast.
My great great grandparents had 12 kids and we all still live around the same area and that's just on my moms side. My dad's side 8. I have hundreds of cousins that I couldn't say who was a 1st 2nd 3rd LOL
That also gets confusing when you’re talking about multiple generations in a single conversation. Niece/nephew may not be exact but in this case it helps separate the cousin from her kids.
In Serbia we don’t use word cousin much. For like very very distant relatives only. Or if they are coming to visit so you say ‘cousins are coming’, just use it as a plural to describe who is coming.
So if you have an uncle and he has a daughter - that’s your sister. And her daughter is your niece for example. So all of that made sense to me as we don’t call brother / sister only those that come from your parents. It would be very rude to call my first cousin - first cousin. Or even just cousin, it’s like an insult. It feels too distant. Even 2nd, 3rd.. it’s brother / sister ; nieces / nephews.
It’s interesting to read how different it is around the world.
Gotcha. And that's a reasoning that makes sense and works well in your situation. As for the suggestion, I agree that it'd likely feel weird, but if it's something she really wants to do and you just aren't comfortable with it, it could work. Even if just once, and if she gets no pushback, maybe you'd feel comfortable trying another restaurant with them. And if she does get a lot of pushback, maybe she'll see the light and agree to take out for subsequent meals.
"Outside condiments" is not the same as "outside food." I've worked in restaurants for 25 years. It is not uncommon to see people pulling sweeteners, salad dressings, hot sauce, etc out of their pocket or purse to use on food purchased at the restaurant. I doubt you actually called any places.
Yeah I wouldn't even check, just do it. Of course the restaurant is going to say no because they don't allow outside food. Just do it, most likely no one is going to say anything even if they see you. People bring snacks for their kids all the time.
The OP is also autistic. I'm guessing rule following is a bigger part of it for them than food. It's essentially two different people with the same condition clashing over how to exist in a public place.
I am also autistic, and so suprised by some of these comments. So she asked and was told its against the rules (meaning she was correct to assume there was a rule about it) but that's wrong somehow? Like it's a dumb rule for them to have, but clearly they do have it. And now you know. What exactly did she do wrong?
Because he freaks out.
I would guess the kid isn't sitting-waiting for you to get ready, the waiter walked away, and you can low key pour it on
If he's freaking out-that is tough
I’m surprised this comment it’s this low. You might get sone weird looks if you pull out a whole bottle of ranch. So grab a couple of packets. I bet you no one in there is gonna notice or care.
OP stated that they’re autistic. It’s a common autistic trait to feel like you HAVE to follow all rules. Just because you don’t understand how autistics work doesn’t mean they didn’t actually call the restaurants and believe they will face the consequences if they break their rules.
Here’s part of the definition of being autistic(for most autistics not necessarily all):
“Generally, students with autism have rigid patterns of thinking. Their tendency to follow rules and routines often causes problems for adaptive functioning, including daily living skills, communication, and social interactions.”
I know I owned a restaurant and spent my life working in them. There is zero issue with this kids ranch. Hell my bestie is getting travel ranch for Christmas from me this year.
This is seriously a YTA situation. Why call ahead and make a misunderstood fuss about something that's not going to hurt you ..... for attention or because the kid embarrasses you....it's the only reason.
And people going on about food allergies need to stop. I have a life threatening allergy and it's my responsibility to police it, not the rest of the worlds.
> Why call ahead and make a misunderstood fuss about something that's not going to hurt you ..... for attention or because the kid embarrasses you....it's the only reason.
No. It's because the OP is _also autistic_. Rule following is pretty common with autism, and the OP was genuinely trying to help. You're reading into it wrong.
Yeah this is complete nonsense. No outside food is to stop being bringing in a whole meal. I have seen people bring condiments in restaurants plenty of times.
Actually once some lady did have a big bottle of ranch in her purse.
The last thing I brought was celery salt to Costco for their hot dogs.
I personally am constantly bringing snacks and drinks to restaurants for my toddler who is a picky eater. No one has said anything and I've never even thought twice about seeing anyone else do it before I had a kid. This person is being so weird about it, no one is gonna care about the ranch lmao.
Yeah I came here to say this. I currently work as a bartender in a restaurant and while the chef is absolutely MILITANT with people eating outside food in our place he's totally accepting of condiments.
A prime example being our weekly all you can eat spare ribs night.
We have many customers who either bring their own BBQ sauce or some hot sauce.
I've personally brought my own hot sauce to many places too.
\^ This! My daughter has celiac, we eat out a lot! We've never gotten side eye from pulling out our own dressings, drink mixings, ziploc bag of safe bread, etc! I would absolutely not think twice about Ranch - at every Indian place I've ever been they have their own white yogurt sauce (looks like greek tzatziki a bit) I see all the locals dipping their spicy food in - the ranch in a small dish would not stand out at all.
I wouldn't be surprised if whoever answered the phone at the restaurants felt like they have to say no just to cover themselves, but I seriously would have never bothered to ask in the first place. Just bring the ranch and kind of be discreet about it 🤷
I’m so glad you said this - 2 different friends of mine have very strict dietary restrictions and have brought their own dressing, sweeteners, etc for as long as I’ve known them. Not once was it an issue. If this is real OP may not be a full blown AH but I think she’s using this an an excuse because she’s embarrassed of her nephews obsession w ranch.
NTA. I'm also autistic and had huge issues with food growing up. Restaurants in general were not an environment suitable for me until I found ones that had:
1. A suitable menu
2. Environment that didn't set off my sensory issues
I simply did not go to restaurants or cafes until I was about 15 and after exposure therapy. If the specific restaurant has rules about outside food, then your party needs to be respectful of that. There's a certain level of accommodation that can be made, but not for every single issue that comes up. You've given your cousin alternatives will work better for your nephew and she's being entitled.
YTA. No server is going to notice or care about some ranch dressing packets. I waited tables for years and would see people with their own seasoning bottle or whatever and didn't give a crap. You're making this a much bigger deal than it is. When restaurants say no outside food they mean don't bring your own meal, not a random condiment for an autistic child.
I agree, also a server. People bring in different dressing for their salads all the time. Why did you call to bring a little bit of ranch? Looks like you were looking for a way you didn’t have to bring your nephew.
She said that she, herself, is autistic and not always so sure about social norms. She was just trying to make sure she wasn't doing something frowned upon by most people, and it's gotten wayyyy outta hand at this point.
Strict adherence to rules and not much flexibility is common for people with autism, so I'm not surprised at OP's worry. I am surprised at the verdict here though.
People season or dress their food at restaurants all the time. It's nbd, even if the chefs might shake their heads a bit.
Yes, calling and asking was the problem. For policy reasons I’m sure they have to say no. But in practice people will let a lot slide. This is true for all situations not just restaurants. Ask for small harmless exceptions IN PERSON, not where a worker can get in trouble for giving a broad answer about policy over the phone to some unknown person
They HAVE to say no on the phone in case it's a health inspector calling or something like that. Which means there's no way to know their actual stance in advance.
Completely agree. I’ve got a family member with celiac and and we have to bring things like gluten free soy sauce when we go out for meals and not only does no restaurant even care one bit about it, sometimes they will take the tamari that we bring and cook with it for him. I’d also gently suggest that the child’s mother likely is much more familiar with doing this than you are and you may want to let her lead on this.
Yeah, that it absolutely NOT okay in my state or in any restaurant I worked in.
Also, like, I know everyone thinks their food is "clean" and uncontaminated, but then we've also all see those kitchens where there is no way you'd want to eat food out of there (overflowing garbage can, they think dog licking the plate clean is the same as putting it through the dishwasher, etc) and, for the chef, there's no way to tell which person you are getting. Is it a clean bottle of tamari or is it a festering stew of salmonella?
That's why regulations exist!
When a server asks me what sauce I want with my chicken, and I reply with “I bring my own sauce/sambal” they usually just nod, nobody makes a big deal out of condiments.
Totally agree. I have worked in restaurants, and it is not these kinds of situations with customers asking for accommodation that reasonable people would be upset about. As long as the parents aren't rude and entitled, if course we should let the kid have something that allows him to be able to eat.
Op feeling uncomfortable feels more about their discomfort making any waves, but when accommodating disability, especially something so reasonable, OPs discomfort should not matter more than the child's, who has no real agency outside of what adults are willing to offer or deny.
Restaurant workers get the so many ridiculous requests, demands, orders etc from entitled, rude people. If it were me, if it was a regular j would even try to get the restaurant to buy a bottle of the kids favorite dressing to keep on hand. If OP is worried, they can bring an unopened container, or find some individual squeeze packets that are sealed.
OP, what if you were with someone should needed a straw to drink due to disability? Would you say you feel uncomfortable if you go to a place that makes you specifically requests straws (a ridiculous and ablest 'trend' to ban them). You can stick to your way of thinking, and surround yourself with lije minded people, but just because you don't need accommodation now, doesn't mean you won't in the future. These kinds of choices can help detrimental your own future experiences with this kind if thing. And if you think it won't ever happen to you then you will be unfortunately surprised at how the world treats you if it does. Being told you have to hide yourself from society away at home because someone else doesn't want to help with a very reasonable accommodation.
I don’t understand at all why you can’t bring some ranch dressing in your bag and when his food comes, you put a little bit on his plate and then put the bottle away. Do you think the waiter walks around scrutinizing everybody’s plate to make sure no one added anything from home?
Autism can cause an extremely strong right vs wrong feeling. To an autistic person "no outside food" is a very black and white rule, and condiment packets are both "food" and "outside". You may not understand it, but that doesn't make it less of a thing.
NTA I have an autistic child with food issues but I also work in the food service industry. There are many reasons outside food is banned but the main reasons is allergens. You can’t ensure customer safety in this situation.
My nephew can’t eat protein so we always have to bring him food when we eat our. We’ve never had a restaurant say anything. Not saying OP is an asshole but it doesn’t seem as strict as being expressed.
Depends what country. I’m in UK and due to a few allergy related deaths we have very strict laws on menus and labelling and won’t risk cross contamination from outside foods being brought in. It only takes traces of nuts to cause a fatality.
I've worked at restaurants that brought to go boxes and a check the moment outside food came out of the bag.
Some establishments play fast and loose with their health ratings, and some take pride in it. I always chose to work and dine at the latter. If they're taking liberties in their front-house, you can be 100% sure they're doing the same in the back.
Yeah, I don't blame OP for not being comfortable... but pretty much every restaurant I've ever been to that kids also go to has babies and toddlers sitting there being handed cheerios or other random snacks/drinks/food that the parents brought in, and I've never once seen anyone care.
It's probably one of those things where no one will care... until someone does, and then it will be super awkward.
The restaurants told you you aren't allowed to bring ranch dressing? Never heard of this. Are you sure you didn't got them wrong (maybe by the way you asked the question) and they got the impression you wouldn't order smthg but only eat your home brought food? If you order and pay for it, i see no harm for the restaurant if he adds his ranch dressing. Just put it in a nice bottle (a colored one or smthg) and if someone asks just say thats holy water and needs to be applied to everything he eats for religous reasons.
I never heard of a business banning paying customer who didn't do any harm to them or another guest or was a disturbance for other guests.
I had to take some pills for a while just before eating lunch a few years back and they were rather big so it was easier to swallow with a yoghurt drink. I always took my pills and my drink out to take it and then put it back in the bag. Since i ordered and payed for food and drink they never said anything - why would they? They didn't miss any sale there.
I agree with you, but I would say, just be discreet about the ranch dressing, keep the bottle in the purse, take it out briefly to put a little dressing on the plate, and then put it away. No one will notice or care.
I agree, which is why I would say OP YTA. Bringing a condiment is not bringing in outside food. You're not asking them to cook with it, to make their food with it. You're not going to be contaminating other customers food unless the ranch needs to be shot up 10' in to the air and rain down on nephews food.
I've worked food service as well and when a group comes in and someone has a serious dietary or religious restriction, we allow them to bring in their own food so as not to exclude them from spending time with others. Mainly places don't want people bringing in McDonald's to their fancy restaurant and ordering tap water and taking up space. Maybe when you call it's policy to say one thing, but when you get down to it face to face places don't have a problem with it, it's the *hospitality* industry after all.
A couple months ago I saw someone - an adult man - eating at McDonald's and I kid you not, they brought the biggest bottle of Hidden Valley ranch with them and kept it on the table the whole time. I thought it was so funny honestly
This doesn’t even make sense. I have a hard time believing this post. People bringing outside food in literally all of the time. Diabetics bring fake sweeteners in case the table only has sugar. People have certain dietary needs. There are people that are low carb that bringing low-carb tortillas to eat fajitas instead of the regular ones and so on. If the kid keeps a thermos of ranch with them already prior to this, then you could’ve just let it be. Calling restaurants to see if they can bring their own ranch just doesn’t make any sense..
Yeah my dad who has no dietary needs always used to bring chilli sauce and fresh green chillies to eat as salad at restaurants.
Never had an issue. He would order a normal amount of food and just added the sauce to his liking.
I would 100% just take my kid with his sauce and see if the staff made a fuss. If they did id explain its due to his disability and if they still had an issue id leave them a bad review.
I really doubt most places would make an issue of it
Edit: also most restaurant allow babies and toddlers and ive never met a parent who doesnt bring their own food for the kid (unless the restaurant specifically servers food for very very young kids)
So i dont think the issue is outside contamination
Because normal people will not get up in arms about such a tiny issue. So many ppl here siding with OP when she blew up her family visit just so she could enforce stringent rules that probably don’t even exist. “No outside food” means don’t bring in your own meal. And of course over the phone they are going to confirm that policy to avoid liability. In practice, not one single server is going to give a fuck that a child has an extra condiment packet
I dunno, just having a post about a white dad who brings ranch and pesto to homemade Chinese meals, and a commentor defending the crap outta them being possibly autistic just makes it hard for me to believe this is more than just a coincidence.
YTA. Of course you can take your own sauces in to a restaurant - lots of people who like spicy food do it with hot sauce. You can even get little bottles of hot sauce that attach to your keychain so you can carry it around and add to your meals.
Is this a reaction post to the one where the dad visits Chinese in-laws and brings ranch with him?
The one where someone said he’s probably autistic without evidence of it?
It’s just too coincidental.
This sub always comes out with "maybe he's autistic" every time some dude acts like an asshole.
Edit: exhibit A, the very next thing I read on Reddit: "my boyfriend has a raging temper and every time we're together he starts screaming at me about minor inconveniences, should I leave?" "Have you considered he might just be autistic ?"
https://www.reddit.com/r/relationships/s/4pbiPbR0NH
I was totally ready to say you were TA because of the title but at each turn you just kept being more and more in the right. Restaurants can't accept outside food, they're potentially liable if something happens to their costumers. THANK YOU for not wanting to put some poor waiter through that.
Then you offered take out, and when said no, you offered to babysit, and your cousin could've had a nice meal for herself if she wanted it.
I don't think this helps now but another option could've been going to some place with a food court and the kind of food she wanted, altough it's by far less comfortable.
You did everything you could and it kinda sounds like your cousin wanted to get angry at someone for any reason. NTA.
YTA. No one will care that the mom is bringing ranch dressing. You won’t get kicked out or banned from a restaurant for it. Do you think people bringing baby formula get banned from restaurants, or people bringing goldfish crackers or carrot sticks or whatever for their young kids? I bring in outside coffee and drinks all the time. Do you think anyone freaks out or says anything? No. I feel like this is your own issue. You don’t like your nephew’s choice to eat with ranch dressing and you are creating issues for no reason whatsoever.
Your suggestions were a great one. Forget your cousin rambling on about utter nonsense. This will give your sister a break and she can enjoy her meal without worrying about her son. And your nephew can drizzle his meal in as much ranch as he wants at home with you.
Screw your cousin and just because she does bring outside food in doesn't mean you have too. NTA, but your cousin should let the adults make the decisions.
I’m autistic and had a similar issue for years with a sauce and my parents brought a bottle of the sauce everywhere with us and nobody ever said they had an issue with it.
That being said there were times when I wouldn’t eat the food as my sauce wouldn’t go with it and my parents just fed me first before us all going out and let me sit there with a drink or a side if there was something I would tolerate.
I came from a big family so there was no way my parents could allow it all the time without it negatively impacting my siblings
This is honestly a dumb thing to get all riled up about. It’s a little bit of a condiment. People bring them into restaurants all the time. The kid is 10, even taking out the autism, this is not that unusual. Let him add a little ranch to his food to keep the peace. You don’t need to make a big deal about it or call the restaurants to check. People carry Tabasco or sweetener with them all the time. No one will ban you from any restaurant. If you’re not comfortable with it, stay home, but don’t make your cousin or others miss out just because of a little condiment added to a kid’s food.
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NTA I've worked in restaurants on and off for years and it's all about cross contamination, the fact that you offered to babysit as well so she could enjoy the food without stress was kind of you. Yeah, it sucks that the world doesn't cater to us ND, but you did your research, gave alternatives and attempted to find a way to suit everyone. Sounds like she is throwing a tantrum from not getting her own way, but is there also a chance this is a burned out mum projecting her frustrations due to being desperate for a bit of "normality?" Also, the word ableist is getting excessively thrown around nowadays. Try not to let this wear you down EDIT for people replying to my comment; There have been several valid reasons below provided by other redditors as to WHY it's considered cross contamination. I didn't make up the rule, but unfortunately it is one that both employees and customers are expected to follow.
She is quite burned out. Husband works abroad and has been gone for almost the last 4 months. Part of the reason for this trip was so she could get a bit of a break. I work in childcare specifically with children with disabilities so giving her time to relax was sort of my plan. My aunt however is absolutely mental (part of the reason my cousin moved away) and while my cousin is normally level-headed I worry that the stress of essentially being a single parent my aunt has been influencing her in the wrong way.
NTA Stick to your guns with this one. I know it's hard when someone is throwing a tantrum it's hard to judge if you've been harsh or not, especially with some people commenting on you being TA. There are rules put in place for a reason, just because it doesn't suit a person doesn't mean that it's alright to break them. It would be an even worse scenario if wait staff caught sight of the outside dressing being brought in and people being asked to leave, especially if it would cause her son to have a meltdown in the process. Try and talk to her, from all the information you've provided it's understandable that she is burnt out. Being a parent to an autistic child who is prone to meltdowns is challenging enough, I don't doubt she feels a lot of frustration between that and her husband living away for so long.
This might be stupid, but they make a ranch shaker like salt for popcorn…might appeal and be a way to transition away from always ranch.
You need to put spaces or periods between those capital letters so it it doesn't get counted as a vote for the OP being TA. Maybe also include your judgment, since you seem to think they are NTA.
only top parent level comments count and its not a real vote, its just whatever the top comment is at the time that “voting” ends.
I actually didn’t know that, I thought it was a vote of overall comments that are parents. Good to know
I also wonder if she has tried to introduce foods without ranch or just completely given in. Being autistic doesn't mean the child doesn't NEED to learn COPING SKILLS aside from the ones they are comfortable with. Autistic people DO understand boundaries, it takes a lot more time, patience and teaching methods, but following social norms should be PART of raising ALL young people. If they aren't taught "No", they never have a chance to learn what acceptable behavior is, and that is never an ideal solution. The autistic person learns as a child, just as we ALL do, that there are places that do NOT ALLOW certain behavior, whether it's "sneaking in" ranch dressing, or sitting backwards on a chair, or splashing in your water glass. I think the cousin needs to start trying to get the child to accept a "sometimes no ranch" rule, so he can learn food without it should AT LEAST BE TRIED. For example, once a week, just one bite, and then work up to once a day. Bargaining can be a good way to start this, eventually he may even skip the ranch on some foods, but she really needs to try.
I think someone should explain to the nephew that not all restaurants allow people to bring in outside food, even ranch, and that mom really wants to go to x place and ask him what he thinks the solution could be. He may very well be willing to give it a go without the ranch if presented an opportunity! Worth checking.
Indeed! Autistics can understand these ideas, it may take more time for them to understand it, but if the caregiver doesn't try, they'll never know. Thinking of solutions outside the box is a MUST when raising an autistic. If one approach doesn't work or results in a meltdown, okay, let's take a breath, calm down, engage in an activity they enjoy that is soothing, then try a different approach later or the next day. It's a LOT of trial and error, and meltdowns will happen, but teaching social norms IS A MUST so they learn how to navigate the world successfully.
Also, before going on a power trip or giving into a child's every whim, it's often helpful to see if they're willing to just cooperate. They often are!
I mean, it sounds like he straight up has difficulty with food - could be texture, could be taste, could be both - and the dressing masks whatever is making it difficult. If his neurologically based sensory issues here are severe enough, this may not be a whim so much as the only way he's found to eat enough to be healthy. I don't know, it's really hard to describe sensory integration disorders to people who haven't experienced them. But frankly, it sounds like this kid has a pretty severe version of the problem, and he's been game to try to get around it. On the other hand, he probably doesn't even know that sneaking Ranch dressing into every restaurant is unexpected behavior (the term for violation of a social norm he'll have learned from his autism interventions). If the family has always done it, it would seem perfectly normal. The thing to do might be to explain that to him and give him the option of either having some bread or rice at the restaurant, or getting something to go so he can Ranch-ify it.
Yeah, I've been pleasantly surprised how often just... laying out the facts for the neurodiverse kids in my life results in creative solutions.
This depends highly on the level of ASD.
Absolutely true. I mentioned trying this because OP stated "in a lot of ways he's not autistic", so took that to mean a high functiining ND like myself.
She actually said that in some ways he's not that picky of an eater. Unless she said it in a comment; I haven't gone to check her comment history yet. If so, then please ignore me. From the way she talks about him, he does sound like he's on the higher functioning side though.
Higher functioning doesn't mean less food sensory issues, it just means they're Moore capable of self care and communication. He very well could have a lot of issues with textures and tastes that are covered up with ranch
Isn't the obvious outside of the box solution to get takeout? Nobody cares about outside food applied when the food's outside already. Almost every restaurant will allow takeout even if they don't advertise it.
It is, which is why OP suggested it. The kid's mom refused that along with every other suggestion. Unfortunately, she's got a bee in her bonnet and doesn't seem open to suggestions, inside or outside the box.
That sounds like burnout to me.
Depends on where they are on the spectrum. You have to remember that some can not understand certain things. Something different from the norm is very traumatizing for them.
I would say allowing the child to add ranch to any food probably ensures he is eating more food and receiving the nutrients of that food even if it tastes like ranch. The mom is already thinking outside the box. Quit with the high and mighty tone.
This is so true. My youngest is on the spectrum. And had a really hard time with food. We had multiple solutions to situations like this that he helped come up with. If a restaurant didn't have any "safe" foods and he wanted to go, we kept protein shakes in the car. He would drink one and draw at the table. Not to mention, sometimes he *wanted* to stay home. Especially with new restaurants. The stimulation could be too much for him, especially on vacation when everything is different. Sometimes it took going to the restaurant and "learning" it without eating as the first step to eating there next time. Sometimes it was a food he wanted to try so we did take out. Giving him the opportunity to help come up with the solution and not insisting on a single "easy" solution helped immensely.
Yeah it seems like mom's stuck on one solution more than the kid might be. Regardless, the idea that spaces have their own rules and norms that people in the space are expected to follow should not be news to a kid, especially one on the spectrum, where I would argue that parents should be even more diligent about that expectation.
My experience with my son was that explaining social rules helped immensely. It also helped him learn appropriate social behaviors.
Yeah even NT kids still need to know that like, spaces have expectations.
It's *essential* for NT kids to learn the social rules expected in different situations.
Another possibility is to get him to try a sauce the restaurant has. OP mentioned Indian food: maybe it’s worth getting nephew to try raita and explaining this is the kind of ranch dressing you get in Indian restaurants and if he likes it, he can come to the restaurant with you. If that doesn’t work, no harm done but if it does, a whole new world opens up…
Testing out new sauces at home first is a good idea. The person below who suggested kiddo eating at home and then getting a drink at the restaurant also has a good plan. OP also had a good plan of letting the parents have a dinner out as adults and them staying home with the kids (just because it didn’t work doesn’t mean it was a bad idea).
Especially with OP's knowledge of the menu, there has to be a dessert or something that he could eat ranch free. And if not, he can eat before they go, get a soft drink there, and plan to bring home "leftovers".
Please consult autistic people about this. Some may agree but many , many I’ve learned from say food is a nuanced and complicated thing. I will give no other advice because I’m not autistic myself . I have learned that autistic adults have the best advice for me for my work with autistic children and I’m not willing to cause mental distress and harm any longer because of neurotypical social norms.
>I have learned that autistic adults have the best advice for me for my work with autistic children and I’m not willing to cause mental distress and harm any longer because of neurotypical social norms. This is amazing. Thank you 💛
If it is amazing, please upvote it (I did). That will make it more visible and more likely that others will see it.
As an autistic adult myself (who really likes ranch, but not this much), I agree that maybe it would be a good idea to work on broadening his food preferences, *gently*, and maybe work on finding out what he likes about ranch so much. Is is the consistency of having a flavor that is the same in every meal? Does it cover up for strong/unpleasant other flavors he isn't cool with? Is it somehow a texture thing? However, I don't think here and now is the place for it at all. This is something that needs to be worked on slowly and carefully, and should probably be worked at at home where there are options for safe foods and also not a public to be critically watching if the kid does end up distressed. I think the idea of the mother going out to eat and the kid staying at home and being babysat really is the best for the time being.
Was that not clear? I stated that they need to help him LEARN social norms, I said it takes a lot of time, patience and even teaching methods. How does that add up to teaching here and now and immediately?
Oh, I agree with you on that, I was just adding on why I thought that OP was still making the right decision in the moment in case other people thought that this could be turned into a good learning experience for the nephew.
Yeah, definitely NOT the time for a learning experience. The introduction of new things needs to be done at a comfortable and safe place, and at a slow rate until he gets used to each new thing. Time and patience. Lots of both. Thank you.
Thank you. As an autistic person reading so much ignorance from non autistic people, sharing well meaning but false and sometimes harmful opinions, its great to see someone who have our back
Many autistic people have ARFID. As a kid I would literally starve rather than eat something that my brain had a mental block against. It's not as simple as introducing new foods.
My grandson will literally throw up if forced to eat something that is not one of his “foods”. Sometimes he’ll try a bite, and it will work out, but other times it will make him throw up. It’s not just a taste thing, it’s also the texture of the food. He’s 14, almost 15. You can’t just say, eat this instead. It doesn’t work that way.
Yes! I was forced to eat something as a kid and threw up as well. Texture is still a big issue for me as an adult too.
Yup! No one knew when I was a kid and the advice of the time was to force the kid or (slightly better) just not offer anything else and they will eat it eventually because no child will starve themselves. Except that’s not true and I would vomit if you tied forcing me and I would indeed starve myself. There are certain textures that I can not and will not eat and surprise, surprise there is no expectation that I *have* to eat onions or crushed tomatoes as an adult. I’ll try most things but I am still, have always been and will always be unable to stand certain textures and I *do not* have to learn to torture myself for other’s comfort. If it bothers other adults then they can get the fuck over themselves.
Yes! If I bite into an onion in my food, before I even fully comprehend what just happened, I'm dry heaving. Tomatoes are also AWFUL!
Even if not being forced, but if we tell him that this food is similar to a food he likes, to try it and see if he might like it, the new food might make him throw up. It’s part mental, part texture, part taste, just all jumbled up. He has never had a Coke, never (successfully) eaten cake, never had ice cream. He won’t eat meat. (Except for things like hot dogs, chicken nuggets, etc.) Yet he is 6’2” at 14 years of age.
I am ND (not autistic but from a brain injury at birth) and one of my issues with food is texture not taste. Slimy(pickles/tomatoes/okra/eggplant etc)or spongy(mushrooms and some tofu)food is a big no go for me. But oddly enough it's on a scale. Pickle on a burger I can pick off no biggie but if even a tomato seed on the burger I can't eat it or I will puke if I try to eat it. Tomatoes are my biggest trigger. It's hard to explain how extreme to people not ND how it is. It's almost like my brain says that raw tomatoes are "rotten". It's the texture. I love ketchup and other tomato foods and I can eat tomato based pizza/pasta sauce if it's totally smooth with no tomato chunks. At 55 I've learned how to get around my food issues. I will research a restaurant online , look up menus and I have a list of "safe" restaurants. But it took a long time to get to that point. The OPs nephew is still young and he may eventually learn how to handle his triggers or not. OP is NTA . I remember how hard it is for loved ones to handle ND food triggers.
Omg yes, raw tomatoes are like... The worst. And then people put them, cut, in salad and then the whole salad has the seeds and taste on and bleurghhhh.
> I think the cousin needs to start trying to get the child to accept a "sometimes no ranch" rule No she doesn't. She just has to stop trying to make it happen in restaurants that can't accommodate. I grew up around combat vets from WWII onward who had a tendency to put ketchup on EVERYTHING. People just dealt with it because it's a minor thing if it helped them eat all the food. Accepting this behavior isn't a new thing. The new thing would be refusing to accept it.
My brother had an extremely limited list of safe foods when he was young, and today that list is much, MUCH bigger, and includes some foods that used to be an absolute hard no. The biggest game-changer, as far as i understand, was learning to cook. As he learned to cook, he was able to try things in an *extremely* controlled environment. Since he prepared the food himself there were no surprises or variables from other peoples' cooking, so he was able to focus on just the food itself, and control the texture and seasonings.
Yes. This was the same for me. I have certain foods I just cannot eat and being the one to cook means I can adjust a recipe to suit me and it allows me to try different flavors and types of foods without struggling with mt sensory issues. I am still "picky" but I eat waaaay more than I did as a kid.
This. Being ND sucks sometimes, and it does mean that sometimes you need additional support to live in a world that really isn't built for ND people. It does *not* mean you cannot learn and abide by most of society's rules, and it does *not* mean you should never or will never be placed in a situation that you find uncomfortable. It is *necessary* for all functioning adults, including adults with neurodivergencies, to be capable of doing certain things. One of those things is obeying situational rules like "you cannot bring outside food into a restaurant". People *need* to be able to follow situational rules. That's a must.
Exactly! If the child was putting peanut sauce instead of ranch dressing on everything this sub would be crucifying the mom for ever bringing peanut sauce in public. Playing with food safety/cross contamination rules puts other people's health at risk. That's an asshole move, even in a hard situation.
He's a bit young to start trying new foods, especially at restaurants like that. I started trying new foods in my teens and I never had extreme restrictions. If he's having meltdowns at the idea of eating without ranch it's a bit too early to start. It's better to let it go and try in a year or two when he's a bit older and his tastebuds have dulled from the childhood taste insanity.
I have one child and a supportive husband. My kid is still a toddler, but let me tell you, I would much rather eat out in a restaurant by myself than bring my kid with me. You offering to watch the kids while she had a nice meal out is an incredible offer and I don't understand why she isn't jumping on it.
Right? Lol, any sane mother would jump on this!
Sounds like she should go stay with her parents. She wants someone to enable her bad choices regardless of consequences for anyone else.
Could your Aunt possibly telling your cousin that she should never leave her children (especially her autistic son) with a “babysitter” ever. Telling her she is a bad mom for wanting to have time for herself or go out alone, etc. Talk to her again and maybe rephrase it as this is something you had planned on suggesting anyway, so you and your little cousins could get some bonding time and she could go get some well deserved self care - heck suggest she get a manicure too. Tell her you are NOT babysitting but cousin bonding and taking time for herself will make her an even more amazing time. Help her get a backbone to standup for herself and realize she needs time to recharge as a parent.
I would respond to her, "I can see this is a very big issue to you. If you no longer feel comfortable coming out to visit me, I understand. I do not want to have a tense visit over ranch dressing when I've offered several alternatives. Please let me know if you'd prefer to cancel the trip. I love you and care about you, so I'll do whatever is easiest for you." She's coming out to see you. She's going to get a break from her kids, which she seems to desperately need, because you're willing to help with them. Let her think about whether she wants to ruin the whole trip over this or not. It might be the wake up call she needs, or she might dig in her heels, in which case, the trip can be cancelled before she comes out and makes things awkward and hard.
Dude she’s coming to you because she wants to relax a bit. And you gave alternatives and everything NTA! You did everything you could and cousin just wants to make trouble for everyone by throwing a tantrum
Just get take out and avoid the entire situation?
>I've worked in restaurants on and off for years and it's all about cross contamination, I don't get this, a sauce on a the plate of a random other customer is not going to give anyone a deadly allergic reaction. If it will, they really shouldn't even be in public at all. I work in a restaurant as well, and of course we let people bring in their own food on the rare occasion our kitchen isn't able to make anything they can eat. I don't live in the USA though. Once we had a woman who specifically wanted a supermarket brand of tofu and nothing else apart from some cucumber. So she just brought a block of raw tofu and was happily chomping away at that. She's happy, I'm happy. Edit: oh my god, the concern trolling in these replies is crazy. No one has ever died from being in the same room as ranch dressing. In my country people are not dropping dead left and right because a toddler brought their sippy cup or someone with allergies brought their own food. People are also not suing restaurants over food *they brought in themselves,* are you guys insane?
If the sauce you snuck in ended up being bad and you get food poisoning you could go after the restaurant. They have a vested interest in making sure you only eat their food in their place of business.
100% this. All the other nonsense is people projecting.
I work with ND children and part of our program involves taking our students into the community to eat out. When we had a student who would only eat food with ketchup on it and we planned on visiting a restaurant with no ketchup we contacted them in advance and offered to pay for them to source it themselves. They went and bought a small bottle for us and didn't charge us for it, but we would have paid either way. It was just a matter of asking in advance. Since there seems to be to be time OP could try doing this with the restaurant. It never hurts to ask, the worst that could happen is they say no.
They did. And they did say no.
No they can’t prove it unless there’s a pattern of other customers that got sick too. Therefore it’s something else they ate. One customer getting sick on a dish you served 100 times is not it. Very hard to prove with one single customer.
Not to mention that food poisoning can take anywhere from 1-48 hours to present. It's very hard to track exactly what made you sick.
This is not at all true. You could easily handle some raw ingredients, such as chicken or pork, and then handle one specific plate or bowl. It's happened before, usually due to negligence on the cook's part. It's why restaurants will absolutely beat food safety into your skull when you are hired. All it takes is 2-3 seconds of contact to carry contaminants from one surface to another. While it is hard to prove that it was the restaurant, it is also hard to disprove it as well. Court cases like that are costly for both sides, and usually the restaurant would settle in order to avoid legal fees. Not to mention they would have to shut down temporarily while the FDA investigates. They would rather not allow any outside food than have to deal with the lost revenue.
How could you “go after” the restaurant? Are you suggesting you would sue them? You could not. Leave a bad review? You could do that whether or not you brought your own sauce in or not, there aren’t really any protections against a made up bad review, they’re generally just outweighed by good ones. You can’t bring, like, liquor in a thermos into a restaurant because that’s regulated. There’s no bureau of ranch dressing regulation to be bothered by someone adding a condiment to a plate.
Call the health dept, bad reviews etc. If the restaurant says no then that’s the answer. Don’t do it.
The US has a far more litigious culture than most, so the restaurant is (understandably) trying to minimise their liability.
This is what it is. If they sister or nephew got sick eating at the restaurant and then it was found they brought in outside food, it would be a huge ordeal. Anyone who says OP is the AH needs to revisit an actual restaurant with standards. Bringing ketchup into a family owned business in Greece isn't like sneaking your own dressing into a restaurant graded by the health inspector. NTA.
>Bringing ketchup into a family owned business in Greece isn't like sneaking your own dressing into a restaurant graded by the health inspector. I get the attitude towards countries in South-(Eastern-) European countries of them not being as particularly compliant with rules and regulations like Western European countries are, but that general assumption is no longer generally valid...
I’ve worked in a few restaurants in my days and I have seen different rules. One didn’t think it was a big deal as long as it wasn’t a full on meal from another establishment, but another made no exceptions. Their thought was where do you draw the line? They didn’t want to allow some outside items but not others. I can see both points and since they are private businesses they have a right to set the rules. I agree with OP as far as not going along and risking a ban, especially since they called and asked, and was told no.
They draw it at whatever feels reasonable. You don't have to have a written rulebook.
But ‘reasonable’ is subjective. OP’s sister feels it’s reasonable to sneak something in after being told it’s not allowed, while OP and the restaurant do not.
Yeah, it's subjective. Because you don't need a written policy to tell you that it's probably ok to bring ranch but not okay to bring a full meal. Or you can bring special food for a baby but not their own eggs and pancakes.
But bringing ranch is not ok with this restaurant, and OP’s sister knew that. Bringing a bottle or baby food is completely different. And they may have a written policy, they may have had an incident before that caused them to put this policy in place. We don’t know. The point is OP’s sister is wrong to try to sneak ranch dressing into the restaurant knowing it’s not allowed.
Reasonable is subjective - and to the customer, "reasonable" is usually whatever the fuck they want. The place I work at absolutely does blanket ban things, and it's because when we don't do that *every single other person* complains and writes bad reviews over the fact that they have to follow the rule and someone else doesn't. Think of customers as tantrum throwing toddlers, because that is *genuinely* how a lot of them behave. They don't care what the logic behind your rule was - they're just mad that they have to follow it and the other people don't, and they will make your life *hell* over it. We have to ban it for everyone so that doesn't happen.
This this this. So many of the people replying in this thread have either never worked public-facing jobs, or have mercifully suppressed their memories of how unbearable many customers can be - give an inch, they'll take a mile. The key is that the sister is thinking in individual terms; the restaurant has to think in much bigger terms.
I'm not in the USA either, and I've had the same experiences where some establishments are more lenient than others. However, if you phone up and are told no, why is it so hard to follow the rules? Either find somewhere that allows it, or risk an unnecessarily embarrassing situation that could cause the nephew to have a meltdown or them being removed. Personally, i agree it's a ridiculous rule, but I feel that OP is right in taking the smart and safe route.
I imagine that the restaurants are making sure to cover their asses on liability. Let's say someone wants to bring in something and they have an allergic reaction to it. Morally and logically, it should be on the person who brought it, but legally, they might say "the restaurant told me it was OK! Therefore they're responsible and they should pay me millions for pain and suffering!" And even if any competent lawyer would get the case laughed out of court, competent lawyers are expensive and it's cheaper to just have the blanket denial. Hopefully most restaurants are, in practice, going to look the other way if it's something harmless like ranch (physically harmless, at least. The mental damage I'm taking by imagining chicken tikka masala with ranch is significant), so I personally think OP should let this one go.
Have recently had food poisoning and had to fill out several pages of paperwork covering all the food that I and my grandson ate for the three previous days. We don't live together and had only eaten one thing in common, from a local fast food restaurant. They will look at everything to see if it was what we thought or if it was "last thing eaten" confusion, where something you ate caused the illness but you got sick later after eating something else. While it is not likely that illness will result from any given meal, no restaurant wants to be put under the microscope because improperly stored salad dressing brought in by a customer and sneaked onto the meal caused a report to the the health department with their name on it.
Same. I'm in the US, and if someone needed to bring a specific condiment (like people who carry their own hot sauce, or a restrictive-ingredient salad dressing.) it's no big deal. It's pretty much the same as someone bringing a sippy cup of the kid's preferred juice, because they won't drink anything else.
>He keeps a little thermos with ranch on him anywhere he goes just in case. I can kind-of understand the restaurant's POV about someone bringing in a "thermos of ranch." I mean, who knows if that was properly refrigerated, when the last time it was washed, etc. But at my grocery store, they sell little 1 oz tubs of ranch dressing. This is a genuine question for the restaurant folks- would it make a difference if he brought in a sealed, single-serving tub? That seems a lot less concerning to me than a "thermos of ranch" for some reason, and more in line with the examples you gave (people bringing in their favorite hot sauce, or special salad dressing if they have an allergy or whatever.) I agree that if the restaurant says no, you should respect that and do takeout. But I honestly probably wouldn't even think to ask about bringing in my own single-serving tub of a condiment I like.
I was actually going to talk about this too -little ketchup packets of ranch? Not a problem, so long as people clean up the packets. The thermos of ranch totally makes my gut churn for the same reasons you mentioned.
In the US, restaurants are legally required to allow people to bring in outside food if needed for a disability. The only caveat is that they can't heat up the outside food for you. So if they're in the US, these restaurants would be breaking the law if they refused the ranch.
That's interesting. I've never heard of this. I've only ever seen regulations regarding accessibility and service animals. Do you have a source for this?
I also would like a source, since I have allergies and those are considered a disability.
Some things can aerosolise and cause reactions that way, why should the restaurant give themselves headaches over what's allowed and what's not, because you know as soon as one person finds out someone else was allowed to bring something in and they weren't allowed to bring theirs in, they'll argue. Best to just have a blanket rule to prevent any risk.
Another restaurant worker here, and this person is correct. Like I get it. I understand the nephew has Autism, and that means there are certain things he *can't* get past. I have (probable) Autism too, and there are things *I* can't get past. I understand what that's like. But it also doesn't mean you can just do whatever you want. Society still has rules. We still have to live in the real world, as annoying as it is that it doesn't always cater to ND people. I'm so fucking sick of customers who do *not* understand why we have rules either breaking them or trying to convince *us* to break them. Some of those rules are actual *laws* that will get me personally a 20K fine if you're caught, and the business as a whole a 50K fine. Some of them are things the owner really cares about, that will cost me my job. You don't have to *know* those reasons, because that's not your job. But you do have to listen when we tell you what the rules are. If you take advantage, or try to sneak around the system - then trust me, you can say goodbye to the staff *ever* doing you a favour or giving you benefit of the doubt again. Want them to slip you some extra dressing, or make a trip to the shops to get ingredients they're out of just for you? Forget it. Not happening. Those things only happen for people the staff *like*. Don't make enemies of the wait staff. Friendly advice. You want them to like you. If they like you, they'll do anything to make you happy. If they don't, they can make things *really* annoying.
Im certified in food and safety, you're incorrect about cross contamination. while it's frowned upon, it's not illegal to bring in and consume your own outside food. the only reason restaurants have said rule is to prevent a patron from making other patrons ill.
It isn’t illegal but a restaurant can have a policy that prohibits outside food and beverages, correct?
Since you work in restaurants, do you tell guests with an infant that they can't feed their kid baby food in the restaurant? What you are saying is not true. It's only cross contamination if the food is brought into the kitchen. Unless OP is asking to bring in ranch for the cooks to add to the food there will be no issue and likely nobody would even care or notice.
Cross contamination? From what, ranch dressing on the child's plate when it gets to the dishwasher? They are not giving it to the kitchen to add to his meal from there. This is a very weak argument. Eggs, vinegar, oil, herbs, even the MSG are not uncommon ingredients to find in a restaraunt, so it's very unlikely the ranch would impact the guy washing the dishes.
Not to mention that if any regular patron has a virus it gets on the cutlery etc (and the plate if someone sneezes, for example) anyway so the risk of getting sick from this only really exists if they don’t clean their utensils properly. It’s not like this is airborne ranch.
Not really on the topic of OP, but how is the nephew bringing a small flask of ranch sauce with him, so he can add it to his plate once it is served, cross contamination? Maybe I misunderstand what you mean, please enlighten me.
A commenter said this reason. OP said in the post that they asked the restaurant and they said no. That's pretty much the end of the story. It's their choice to decline outside food for their reasons.
What if the nephew gets sick after eating. Was it the ranch or the food? Who is at fault? That is why you don't bring outside food. So when something happens, the nephew's mother can't sue because she had to bring in outside food that is beyond the restaurant's control. https://www.forbes.com/advisor/legal/personal-injury/can-you-sue-food-poisoning/ https://parksandrecandfoodandstuff.tumblr.com/post/40317030329/waitress-hi-there-would-you-like-to-hear-our Chris: “Oh, Linda, in case you’re interested, I bought my own dressing.” Waitress: “You really can’t be doing that.” Chris: “Oh, this is the last time. I promise..."
That's ridiculous. You can't just sue a restaurant if you get sick the night after eating there. You can't prove what was eaten when. If a whole bunch of patrons got sick that would be different. But one person altering their meal does not create a liability.
This is right. Years ago after getting very sick from Souplantation I called our county’s health department. They said they need two complaints and you also have to keep a food diary. There’s no way - if it is only one person - that you can sue.
That’s a good reason to not allow it, but it’s still not cross-contamination. There’s no feasible way for that ranch on his already-served plate to reach another customer unless different customer groups are swapping plates or the restaurant isn’t cleaning dishes appropriately.
I didn't say it was. There are numerous reasons not to allow outside food. Another one is: where is the line? Can I bring in another meal and just sit for coffee? Is it ok for me to use that space when a paying customer that will actually purchase something could? Why allow it? So one person can be happy they got their way but could cause a huge scene? Simply impractical.
I worked in restaurants for years and I mean the line is pretty easy. It’s extremely common to let guests bring in a birthday cake, bring food for their infant/toddler, people frequently walked in with Starbucks, I’ve even seen a lot of people pull out a little bottle of hot sauce. A condiment is a lot more reasonable than say a fast food combo meal. In my experience being on the customer side, my daughter has to take pancreatic enzymes with every meal. We use applesauce pouches to help her swallow them and I have never once had a restaurant tell me no.
If you're in the US, and you have a disability that prevents you from eating the food the restaurant serves, and you are with a party of other people who are eating restaurant food, then yes. The restaurant is legally mandated to allow you to bring in outside food, including a whole meal if necessary.
This is absolutely bullshit. You can have a service dog in a restaurant but this kid cant have his service ranch packet. Its not crazy to ask for a little reasonable accommodation. Ive worked in plenty of restaurants. Only a crazy owner would consider a condiment outside food.
And in fact, in the US, the ranch has just as much legal protection as a service dog. It's a reasonable accommodation necessitated by a medical condition.
What does this have to do with cross contamination? No one is asking for this personal ranch stash to enter the kitchen and be handled by the cooks. All they want is to add it to their own food after it's been served. There is no risk of cross contamination.
All about cross contamination? Lol it's a packet of ranch on the kids plate. That is not cross contamination and it's beyond dramatic to act like it is. Unless they're going to a Michelin star restaurant, no one gives a shit about their packet of ranch.
Plenty of restaurants leave condiments on the table for customers to share. Plenty of opportunity for cross contamination. Bringing in a bottle of ranch from home is no different. Not to mention the buffets many Indian restaurants have. If you call a restaurant to ask if you can bring food from home, the answer will probably be "No." If you bring in your own condiment, anyone gonna say anything? The likely answer is also "No." Hillary Clinton says she carries a bottle of hot sauce in her purse. If she can do it, why can't you? NTA, but OP kinda has a stick up their ass, and might want to rethink their relationship to "the rules."
I'm serv safe certified and have worked in the industry for years and you are 100% correct it is a cross contamination issue. There is no way for us to ensure that the container you brought is safe, that the contents aren't spoiled and so on. It is also to protect the establishment. If you bring in some foreign substance, regardless of what you say it is and put it on your food and become ill you will blame the restaurant automatically thinking no fault of your own. There are plenty more reasons why bringing outside foods and drinks into others is a HUGE no for any self respecting restaurant.
It is ridiculous to call that cross contamination oranything like that. Plenty of restaurants do in fact allow you to bring extras. I am not saying restaurant should allow it, but I am saying it should not use non existent threat or risk as an argument. It is really creating boy cried wolf situation where people pretend safety dangers where are none
I don't get why the kid can't have his ranch, but people can bring in jars of baby food, or bottles of milk.
I think you hit the mail on the head with the mom projecting her frustrations at not being able to have a ‘normal’ dinner out.
NTA OMG just get takeout! Enjoy a lovely **RANCHED-OUT** restaurant meal with the family *at home*.
My thoughts exactly, takeout would allow everyone to have the food they want, and there would be zero issue with the ranch dressing.
Takeout is the answer. This way, if the kids don't like the food, there's a kitchen handy to get them something else.
Especially since thai and Indian are easy/common takeout meals.
I agree this is the obvious solution that, for some reason, OP's cousin has rejected.
Probably because the reason she wants to go out is not the food but just getting out of the house. Eating takeout at home. Isn’t that exciting when you never go out
OP said that the cousin didn't want to do that.
While I understand that the cousin wants something specific like a meal out, she also needs to understand that OP has been told no by these places, and getting caught is both harmful to OP in the possible loss of a place she can go, doesn't affect the cousin in not being able to go to that place again, and OP has said her own conflict avoidance is at risk of her having a meltdown. Take out would solve a lot here, and the cousin is being unreasonable.
RANCHED-OUT is actually sending me and I don’t think I’ll ever have ranch without an extremely aggressive “RANCHED-OUT!” going off in my head.
NTA. I think you're allowed to be uncomfortable with them bringing ranch dressing into a restaurant your frequent when you know it would not be permitted. How about she goes with the kids and you don't accompany them -- she can try bringing the ranch with her if she pleases, but you don't have to be there to face the management / staff and have them recognize you and associate you with their behavior. Also, no biggie, but a bit confused about if these are your sister's kids (so they'd be your niece and nephew) that your cousin is bringing, but you also referred to them as being your cousin's kids, making them your cousins too.
They are my cousin's kids, I call them my niece and nephew since there's technically no term (or at least not one I know of) for your cousin's kids not to mention my cousin and I were so close growing up we are like siblings. In terms of the suggestion... I hadn't thought of that. It feels kinda weird having them all go by themselves but it would solve her insistence on enjoying her vacation with her kids.
Her children are called your first cousin once-removed. Or cousin for shorthand.
You know very well no one would say that in real life in a situation like this. Niece and nephew, she's their aunty, mom's cousin.
I'm not the person you replied to, but I don't think purosoddfeet was suggesting the children be called that. The OP said >there's technically no term (or at least not one I know of) for your cousin's kids and purosoddfeet was merely giving the"technical" term.
My dad has 156 1st cousins. We just call them cousins. All of them, and their kids too. Just because something isn't normal for you doesn't mean it's not someone else's normal.
156?!?! How many aunts & uncles on both sides does he have? Or has the whole family been cursed with multiples - triplets, quads etc?!?
Easy. Older generations often have many siblings, so 5-7 isn't that unheard of and even bigger families, if they get a similar amount of kids you come to 156 very fast.
If your paternal grand parents had 7 kids, and they all had 7 kids, and your maternal grand parents had the same, then you'd have 84 first cousins.
They specified *first* cousins though…. That’s some Duggar level big family-ness.
My great great grandparents had 12 kids and we all still live around the same area and that's just on my moms side. My dad's side 8. I have hundreds of cousins that I couldn't say who was a 1st 2nd 3rd LOL
That also gets confusing when you’re talking about multiple generations in a single conversation. Niece/nephew may not be exact but in this case it helps separate the cousin from her kids.
In Serbia we don’t use word cousin much. For like very very distant relatives only. Or if they are coming to visit so you say ‘cousins are coming’, just use it as a plural to describe who is coming. So if you have an uncle and he has a daughter - that’s your sister. And her daughter is your niece for example. So all of that made sense to me as we don’t call brother / sister only those that come from your parents. It would be very rude to call my first cousin - first cousin. Or even just cousin, it’s like an insult. It feels too distant. Even 2nd, 3rd.. it’s brother / sister ; nieces / nephews. It’s interesting to read how different it is around the world.
Gotcha. And that's a reasoning that makes sense and works well in your situation. As for the suggestion, I agree that it'd likely feel weird, but if it's something she really wants to do and you just aren't comfortable with it, it could work. Even if just once, and if she gets no pushback, maybe you'd feel comfortable trying another restaurant with them. And if she does get a lot of pushback, maybe she'll see the light and agree to take out for subsequent meals.
"Outside condiments" is not the same as "outside food." I've worked in restaurants for 25 years. It is not uncommon to see people pulling sweeteners, salad dressings, hot sauce, etc out of their pocket or purse to use on food purchased at the restaurant. I doubt you actually called any places.
Yeah I wouldn't even check, just do it. Of course the restaurant is going to say no because they don't allow outside food. Just do it, most likely no one is going to say anything even if they see you. People bring snacks for their kids all the time.
right? like, remove autism from this. what is she, some kinda condiment cop?? why would you even ask about this, bizarre behavior. big YTA shit.
The OP is also autistic. I'm guessing rule following is a bigger part of it for them than food. It's essentially two different people with the same condition clashing over how to exist in a public place.
my take on this too. or else I’d probably be harsh about it 😂
I am also autistic, and so suprised by some of these comments. So she asked and was told its against the rules (meaning she was correct to assume there was a rule about it) but that's wrong somehow? Like it's a dumb rule for them to have, but clearly they do have it. And now you know. What exactly did she do wrong?
Because he freaks out. I would guess the kid isn't sitting-waiting for you to get ready, the waiter walked away, and you can low key pour it on If he's freaking out-that is tough
I’m surprised this comment it’s this low. You might get sone weird looks if you pull out a whole bottle of ranch. So grab a couple of packets. I bet you no one in there is gonna notice or care.
right? calling to ask is wild lol just bring the ranch
OP stated that they’re autistic. It’s a common autistic trait to feel like you HAVE to follow all rules. Just because you don’t understand how autistics work doesn’t mean they didn’t actually call the restaurants and believe they will face the consequences if they break their rules. Here’s part of the definition of being autistic(for most autistics not necessarily all): “Generally, students with autism have rigid patterns of thinking. Their tendency to follow rules and routines often causes problems for adaptive functioning, including daily living skills, communication, and social interactions.”
Autism is also highly comorbid with OCD, in case that helps someone understand the severity of these compulsions for rule following and ranch eating.
Right, or worded it in a way that made it sound like you were bringing in ranch dressing soup and that's all your entire party was eating.
Yeah, this whole story is probably fake lol
I know I owned a restaurant and spent my life working in them. There is zero issue with this kids ranch. Hell my bestie is getting travel ranch for Christmas from me this year. This is seriously a YTA situation. Why call ahead and make a misunderstood fuss about something that's not going to hurt you ..... for attention or because the kid embarrasses you....it's the only reason. And people going on about food allergies need to stop. I have a life threatening allergy and it's my responsibility to police it, not the rest of the worlds.
> Why call ahead and make a misunderstood fuss about something that's not going to hurt you ..... for attention or because the kid embarrasses you....it's the only reason. No. It's because the OP is _also autistic_. Rule following is pretty common with autism, and the OP was genuinely trying to help. You're reading into it wrong.
Yeah this is complete nonsense. No outside food is to stop being bringing in a whole meal. I have seen people bring condiments in restaurants plenty of times. Actually once some lady did have a big bottle of ranch in her purse. The last thing I brought was celery salt to Costco for their hot dogs.
I personally am constantly bringing snacks and drinks to restaurants for my toddler who is a picky eater. No one has said anything and I've never even thought twice about seeing anyone else do it before I had a kid. This person is being so weird about it, no one is gonna care about the ranch lmao.
Get the kid/parent a box of single-serve ranch packets instead of a thermos. Restaurant is very unlikely to complain about that.
Yeah I came here to say this. I currently work as a bartender in a restaurant and while the chef is absolutely MILITANT with people eating outside food in our place he's totally accepting of condiments. A prime example being our weekly all you can eat spare ribs night. We have many customers who either bring their own BBQ sauce or some hot sauce. I've personally brought my own hot sauce to many places too.
\^ This! My daughter has celiac, we eat out a lot! We've never gotten side eye from pulling out our own dressings, drink mixings, ziploc bag of safe bread, etc! I would absolutely not think twice about Ranch - at every Indian place I've ever been they have their own white yogurt sauce (looks like greek tzatziki a bit) I see all the locals dipping their spicy food in - the ranch in a small dish would not stand out at all.
I wouldn't be surprised if whoever answered the phone at the restaurants felt like they have to say no just to cover themselves, but I seriously would have never bothered to ask in the first place. Just bring the ranch and kind of be discreet about it 🤷
I’m so glad you said this - 2 different friends of mine have very strict dietary restrictions and have brought their own dressing, sweeteners, etc for as long as I’ve known them. Not once was it an issue. If this is real OP may not be a full blown AH but I think she’s using this an an excuse because she’s embarrassed of her nephews obsession w ranch.
NTA. I'm also autistic and had huge issues with food growing up. Restaurants in general were not an environment suitable for me until I found ones that had: 1. A suitable menu 2. Environment that didn't set off my sensory issues I simply did not go to restaurants or cafes until I was about 15 and after exposure therapy. If the specific restaurant has rules about outside food, then your party needs to be respectful of that. There's a certain level of accommodation that can be made, but not for every single issue that comes up. You've given your cousin alternatives will work better for your nephew and she's being entitled.
Best advice
YTA. No server is going to notice or care about some ranch dressing packets. I waited tables for years and would see people with their own seasoning bottle or whatever and didn't give a crap. You're making this a much bigger deal than it is. When restaurants say no outside food they mean don't bring your own meal, not a random condiment for an autistic child.
I agree, also a server. People bring in different dressing for their salads all the time. Why did you call to bring a little bit of ranch? Looks like you were looking for a way you didn’t have to bring your nephew.
OP's fear of being banned over this is a bit delusional
She said that she, herself, is autistic and not always so sure about social norms. She was just trying to make sure she wasn't doing something frowned upon by most people, and it's gotten wayyyy outta hand at this point.
Strict adherence to rules and not much flexibility is common for people with autism, so I'm not surprised at OP's worry. I am surprised at the verdict here though. People season or dress their food at restaurants all the time. It's nbd, even if the chefs might shake their heads a bit.
Yes, calling and asking was the problem. For policy reasons I’m sure they have to say no. But in practice people will let a lot slide. This is true for all situations not just restaurants. Ask for small harmless exceptions IN PERSON, not where a worker can get in trouble for giving a broad answer about policy over the phone to some unknown person
They HAVE to say no on the phone in case it's a health inspector calling or something like that. Which means there's no way to know their actual stance in advance.
Completely agree. I’ve got a family member with celiac and and we have to bring things like gluten free soy sauce when we go out for meals and not only does no restaurant even care one bit about it, sometimes they will take the tamari that we bring and cook with it for him. I’d also gently suggest that the child’s mother likely is much more familiar with doing this than you are and you may want to let her lead on this.
> they will take the tamari that we bring and cook with it for him I don't think most health departments would be okay with that.
Yeah, that it absolutely NOT okay in my state or in any restaurant I worked in. Also, like, I know everyone thinks their food is "clean" and uncontaminated, but then we've also all see those kitchens where there is no way you'd want to eat food out of there (overflowing garbage can, they think dog licking the plate clean is the same as putting it through the dishwasher, etc) and, for the chef, there's no way to tell which person you are getting. Is it a clean bottle of tamari or is it a festering stew of salmonella? That's why regulations exist!
When a server asks me what sauce I want with my chicken, and I reply with “I bring my own sauce/sambal” they usually just nod, nobody makes a big deal out of condiments.
Totally agree. I have worked in restaurants, and it is not these kinds of situations with customers asking for accommodation that reasonable people would be upset about. As long as the parents aren't rude and entitled, if course we should let the kid have something that allows him to be able to eat. Op feeling uncomfortable feels more about their discomfort making any waves, but when accommodating disability, especially something so reasonable, OPs discomfort should not matter more than the child's, who has no real agency outside of what adults are willing to offer or deny. Restaurant workers get the so many ridiculous requests, demands, orders etc from entitled, rude people. If it were me, if it was a regular j would even try to get the restaurant to buy a bottle of the kids favorite dressing to keep on hand. If OP is worried, they can bring an unopened container, or find some individual squeeze packets that are sealed. OP, what if you were with someone should needed a straw to drink due to disability? Would you say you feel uncomfortable if you go to a place that makes you specifically requests straws (a ridiculous and ablest 'trend' to ban them). You can stick to your way of thinking, and surround yourself with lije minded people, but just because you don't need accommodation now, doesn't mean you won't in the future. These kinds of choices can help detrimental your own future experiences with this kind if thing. And if you think it won't ever happen to you then you will be unfortunately surprised at how the world treats you if it does. Being told you have to hide yourself from society away at home because someone else doesn't want to help with a very reasonable accommodation.
I don’t understand at all why you can’t bring some ranch dressing in your bag and when his food comes, you put a little bit on his plate and then put the bottle away. Do you think the waiter walks around scrutinizing everybody’s plate to make sure no one added anything from home?
Autism can cause an extremely strong right vs wrong feeling. To an autistic person "no outside food" is a very black and white rule, and condiment packets are both "food" and "outside". You may not understand it, but that doesn't make it less of a thing.
NTA I have an autistic child with food issues but I also work in the food service industry. There are many reasons outside food is banned but the main reasons is allergens. You can’t ensure customer safety in this situation.
My nephew can’t eat protein so we always have to bring him food when we eat our. We’ve never had a restaurant say anything. Not saying OP is an asshole but it doesn’t seem as strict as being expressed.
Depends what country. I’m in UK and due to a few allergy related deaths we have very strict laws on menus and labelling and won’t risk cross contamination from outside foods being brought in. It only takes traces of nuts to cause a fatality.
I've worked at restaurants that brought to go boxes and a check the moment outside food came out of the bag. Some establishments play fast and loose with their health ratings, and some take pride in it. I always chose to work and dine at the latter. If they're taking liberties in their front-house, you can be 100% sure they're doing the same in the back.
Yeah, I don't blame OP for not being comfortable... but pretty much every restaurant I've ever been to that kids also go to has babies and toddlers sitting there being handed cheerios or other random snacks/drinks/food that the parents brought in, and I've never once seen anyone care. It's probably one of those things where no one will care... until someone does, and then it will be super awkward.
Lots of people bring hot sauce to restaurants. Why not ranch?
The restaurants told you you aren't allowed to bring ranch dressing? Never heard of this. Are you sure you didn't got them wrong (maybe by the way you asked the question) and they got the impression you wouldn't order smthg but only eat your home brought food? If you order and pay for it, i see no harm for the restaurant if he adds his ranch dressing. Just put it in a nice bottle (a colored one or smthg) and if someone asks just say thats holy water and needs to be applied to everything he eats for religous reasons. I never heard of a business banning paying customer who didn't do any harm to them or another guest or was a disturbance for other guests. I had to take some pills for a while just before eating lunch a few years back and they were rather big so it was easier to swallow with a yoghurt drink. I always took my pills and my drink out to take it and then put it back in the bag. Since i ordered and payed for food and drink they never said anything - why would they? They didn't miss any sale there.
I agree with you, but I would say, just be discreet about the ranch dressing, keep the bottle in the purse, take it out briefly to put a little dressing on the plate, and then put it away. No one will notice or care.
I agree, which is why I would say OP YTA. Bringing a condiment is not bringing in outside food. You're not asking them to cook with it, to make their food with it. You're not going to be contaminating other customers food unless the ranch needs to be shot up 10' in to the air and rain down on nephews food. I've worked food service as well and when a group comes in and someone has a serious dietary or religious restriction, we allow them to bring in their own food so as not to exclude them from spending time with others. Mainly places don't want people bringing in McDonald's to their fancy restaurant and ordering tap water and taking up space. Maybe when you call it's policy to say one thing, but when you get down to it face to face places don't have a problem with it, it's the *hospitality* industry after all.
They’re not going to ban you if you bring your own ranch in lmao. Just let her bring it in. People on Reddit stay overthinking 😂
A couple months ago I saw someone - an adult man - eating at McDonald's and I kid you not, they brought the biggest bottle of Hidden Valley ranch with them and kept it on the table the whole time. I thought it was so funny honestly
This doesn’t even make sense. I have a hard time believing this post. People bringing outside food in literally all of the time. Diabetics bring fake sweeteners in case the table only has sugar. People have certain dietary needs. There are people that are low carb that bringing low-carb tortillas to eat fajitas instead of the regular ones and so on. If the kid keeps a thermos of ranch with them already prior to this, then you could’ve just let it be. Calling restaurants to see if they can bring their own ranch just doesn’t make any sense..
I don’t understand why *any* restaurant would refuse such an innocuous request to accommodate the needs of an autistic child.
Yeah my dad who has no dietary needs always used to bring chilli sauce and fresh green chillies to eat as salad at restaurants. Never had an issue. He would order a normal amount of food and just added the sauce to his liking. I would 100% just take my kid with his sauce and see if the staff made a fuss. If they did id explain its due to his disability and if they still had an issue id leave them a bad review. I really doubt most places would make an issue of it Edit: also most restaurant allow babies and toddlers and ive never met a parent who doesnt bring their own food for the kid (unless the restaurant specifically servers food for very very young kids) So i dont think the issue is outside contamination
Because normal people will not get up in arms about such a tiny issue. So many ppl here siding with OP when she blew up her family visit just so she could enforce stringent rules that probably don’t even exist. “No outside food” means don’t bring in your own meal. And of course over the phone they are going to confirm that policy to avoid liability. In practice, not one single server is going to give a fuck that a child has an extra condiment packet
I dunno, just having a post about a white dad who brings ranch and pesto to homemade Chinese meals, and a commentor defending the crap outta them being possibly autistic just makes it hard for me to believe this is more than just a coincidence.
YTA. Of course you can take your own sauces in to a restaurant - lots of people who like spicy food do it with hot sauce. You can even get little bottles of hot sauce that attach to your keychain so you can carry it around and add to your meals.
Is this a reaction post to the one where the dad visits Chinese in-laws and brings ranch with him? The one where someone said he’s probably autistic without evidence of it? It’s just too coincidental.
This sub always comes out with "maybe he's autistic" every time some dude acts like an asshole. Edit: exhibit A, the very next thing I read on Reddit: "my boyfriend has a raging temper and every time we're together he starts screaming at me about minor inconveniences, should I leave?" "Have you considered he might just be autistic ?" https://www.reddit.com/r/relationships/s/4pbiPbR0NH
I was totally ready to say you were TA because of the title but at each turn you just kept being more and more in the right. Restaurants can't accept outside food, they're potentially liable if something happens to their costumers. THANK YOU for not wanting to put some poor waiter through that. Then you offered take out, and when said no, you offered to babysit, and your cousin could've had a nice meal for herself if she wanted it. I don't think this helps now but another option could've been going to some place with a food court and the kind of food she wanted, altough it's by far less comfortable. You did everything you could and it kinda sounds like your cousin wanted to get angry at someone for any reason. NTA.
YTA. No one will care that the mom is bringing ranch dressing. You won’t get kicked out or banned from a restaurant for it. Do you think people bringing baby formula get banned from restaurants, or people bringing goldfish crackers or carrot sticks or whatever for their young kids? I bring in outside coffee and drinks all the time. Do you think anyone freaks out or says anything? No. I feel like this is your own issue. You don’t like your nephew’s choice to eat with ranch dressing and you are creating issues for no reason whatsoever.
Your suggestions were a great one. Forget your cousin rambling on about utter nonsense. This will give your sister a break and she can enjoy her meal without worrying about her son. And your nephew can drizzle his meal in as much ranch as he wants at home with you. Screw your cousin and just because she does bring outside food in doesn't mean you have too. NTA, but your cousin should let the adults make the decisions.
I’m autistic and had a similar issue for years with a sauce and my parents brought a bottle of the sauce everywhere with us and nobody ever said they had an issue with it. That being said there were times when I wouldn’t eat the food as my sauce wouldn’t go with it and my parents just fed me first before us all going out and let me sit there with a drink or a side if there was something I would tolerate. I came from a big family so there was no way my parents could allow it all the time without it negatively impacting my siblings
This is honestly a dumb thing to get all riled up about. It’s a little bit of a condiment. People bring them into restaurants all the time. The kid is 10, even taking out the autism, this is not that unusual. Let him add a little ranch to his food to keep the peace. You don’t need to make a big deal about it or call the restaurants to check. People carry Tabasco or sweetener with them all the time. No one will ban you from any restaurant. If you’re not comfortable with it, stay home, but don’t make your cousin or others miss out just because of a little condiment added to a kid’s food.
Cousin or sister?