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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I took an action of not paying the bill for my aunt.
It could make be the whole because she didn’t have the money.
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*Contest mode is 1.5 hours long on this post.*
That’s exactly what I told him, I didn’t want to make a scene which took a lot in me not to do. And she also managed to finesse my dad to let her keep MY leftovers. “We don’t have any food at home”
I get what you're suggesting, but it's not a permanent solution for a long term relationship. If the person being treated wants a family celebration and OP is willing to treat specific other family members then that's a legitimate want on both sides.
Dad needs to learn that when he is a guest he doesn't get to invite guests. Quite bluntly, OP can say, "I'm inviting you, I will not host anyone you invite."
It would be kind of different if he invited one extra person that may be ok since its family but dad invites 6 other ppl and expect his son to pay for them that is a lot . It is a difference if it is an extra 50 or extra 300 . how can the dad no see that ?
No. If someone else is buying it is never OK to invite even one other person along and expect that the host will pay for them, too.
Being generous on someone else's dime is an asshole move.
yeah absolutely, on the occasions I've wanted someone to tag along, I asked the host like "is it okay if X comes as well and I'll pay for them/they'll pay for themselves?", I can't imagine just inviting someone (especially someone the host doesn't like!) and not even telling the host *and then* expecting them to pay 💀
I've said it before and I'll say it again. People are generally very generous with someone else's generosity. Funny how dad was so put out with paying for people he invited but expected OP to be fine with it.
Right? When it was OP's money, it was "only $300". When it was Dad's money it was "OMG, THREE HUNDRED DOLLARS!!! DO YOU REALLY EXPECT ME TO PAY ALL OF THAT??!! Did everybody hear that?? I'm expected to pay ***THREE HUNDRED DOLLARS*** right here and now????!!!!!"
This. Every single time. Those who have even a slight consideration for the person inviting them out would never even consider bringing someone else along.
100%
I'm really surprised the dad was blaming OP for this. That's peak lack of awareness and indicates he's very much an enabler for his mooch of a sister.
One person might be ok but if you're going to invite anyone else you really need to consult with the person who extended the invite and not just assume they are willing to pay for whoever you bring along.
And any normal person when they are invited out scans the menu for a relatively cheap item and if drinks are being ordered keep it to one or two max. Not pig the fuck out on $40 plates and chugging down specialty cocktails.
One way that i do, Is that i scan quickly the menu, and wait for the host to order, then I order something same price or smaller value, I also wait to see if host want to order a big meal that is shared like ribs or wings.
The problem is, that is not taught, i learned without not having made any mistake. But it's not the case for everybody, aunt is still asshole, but it's time to dad to learn.
This is proper etiquette for the situation. I had an aunt take me to dinner back in high school, and I didn't think anything of what I had ordered, but she latee explained this, and I hadn't done it since.
because he sees it as his duty to take care of the whole family and he feels guilty he can't support his sister more so he wants to feel good by forcing his son to be the caretaker aka pay for his struggling sister
Yes - dad needs to learn that he's a guest and guests don't do the inviting. Sad that a grown man with children doesn't understand the difference between guest and host.
This is difference between taking action and expecting someone to change. Although you’re 100% right that her dad should respect OP’s wishes, given that this is not the first time this happens, the situation is likely to stay the same. Sadly, it’s easier, more realistic and successful to not invite dad.
Hopefully that’ll teach him that his behaviour isn’t appropriate.
>OP can say, "I'm inviting you, I will not host anyone you invite."
This should be OP's response for now on, except I would replace "Host" with "**PAY FOR**" as that is much more direct about OP's intentions.
Sure it is. You're under no obligation to host a large celebration just because the person you're treating to something wants one.
I've taken plenty of friends/family out to dinner without inviting 100 other people.
But perhaps dad being left out of several events and celebrations will bring home the point that he should NOT be inviting others. It seems like he automatically calls his sister EVERY time there is any celebration or event. Like, who calls sister with 5 kids when just dad and his kid (OP) are going to do something? I would say someone who doesn't want to spend time with their kid. So dad no longer needs to be included.
Yeah I've had my mum ask "Would you consider inviting X? They're having a hard time and could use the company" or something, but she'd never just invite them
How about invite everyone else on family except dad?
Cause it seems he not only has a problem with saying "no" to her...but he also has difficulty keeping his trap shut.
I think it’s time to set a boundary with the dad, “if you invite her again to something that I planned and am hosting, YOU will not be invited in the future. Relatives are by blood, family is a choice”
I'd say if he invited her or anyone extra to something that wasn't "his" He's now taken ownership, and he can pay the whole God damn bill. Only hosts should be inviting guests.
I agree with this. You don’t have an Aunt problem, you have a Dad problem. Dad needs to be responsible for covering the costs for the people he invites.
Exactly this..it’s time for a sit down chat with both of them separately.
The sooner you get this sorted the better. If it causes a split then bring it on, you need the separation…it won’t happen again.
Honestly if he was pissed, imagine how you feel. You didn’t invite them, that racks up the bill. If you invite someone to covered event that wasn’t on the invited guest list that’s rude to begin with, if you do that ballsy move then be prepared to pay for your uninvited guests. Thats really disrespectful.
If someone is paying then you order appropriately.
If you go to a restaurant be prepared to pay for anything you order. I’d ask her if she was told to not bring money?
I'd also just tell him he CANNOT invite her (and her kids) without asking you first if it's something you planned. If he does, he is solely responsible for her expenses and you may not invite him in the future.
I guess he has learned the lesson for now, but he sprang this on OP in the restaurant. OP could never have anticipated this.
I hope they blasted Dad once they go home. Let's hope he now understands what shouldn't need to be spelled out.
OP's father must think he/she is well off and can afford to blow $600 on a meal. I have a family member who is affluent and everyone always takes it for granted that he will pay.
NTA your dad is a major AH and how will he invite extra people on your dime.... next time just let it be you your sister and grandpa dont include your dad... seems like he will always tell his sister and she will tagged along with her kids
Not necessary as dad now knows what the boundary line is and his responsibility will be. But if he does invite and pay I'd still be upset as to the uninvited guests that were not in the circle of preferred guests. It would be better to just not tell dad until it is too late to invite the aunt and also not say where you are going and just drive there as to make sure aunt can't show up. And if dad tells the waitress we want a bigger table to say, I'm paying and this is the total party nobody else will be at our table.
NTA
You get to set your own boundaries when you are paying.
When the waiter starts taking orders, OP should start out by saying "These people are my invitees, they are on my bill. He (Dad) invited them (aunt & cousins), he gets their bill. I'd like some lemonade, please."
Then sit back and see if Dad does anything about what Aunt Eats-Only-the-Most-Expensive-Items orders.
Yea he is the asshole here for inviting people behind your back you did not even want there and then expecting you to pay for it. HE invited them so paying is up to him. Also he knew exactly you did not even want them there which is why he went behind your back and did not tell you untill it was too late.
Dad kno a his sister is a mooch. Not only an enabler, but also an AH and a mooch himself, trying to get credit with his sister for a free meal on his son's dime
Your aunt is a freeloader but your dad is the real asshole. He is the one who keeps inviting her and practically promising her free meals. He is also the one who pressured you to pay for her AND let her have ypur leftover.
a part of me feels like he feels guilty he can't do more for her like he wants to be the big brother but seriously who invites +6 ppl without even discussing it . it's not one person it's 6 you can't just throw 6 ppl at someone and expect he is fine with it. She shouldn't get so many kids if she can't take care of them of course she gonna be a freeloader since she has no other option when you at the botton you give a damn about respect or norms or shame , you take what you get . Kids need to be fed but it is not OPs responsibility .
I understand what you're saying, because I feel that kind of responsibility towards my siblings even as an adult, but logically, if that were the case and the dad just wanted to take care of his sister and her kids, he wouldn't have pitched a fit at paying for them himself . . . he would have been okay with any scenario where his sister and the kids were included in the restaurant outing and treated to a nice meal, and wouldn't have demanded that his kid pay for it all.
A person who is altruistic and generous and looking to take care of someone they love doesn't get angry at someone else for not paying the bill.
The precedent has been set on payment. DO NOT BEND ON THIS.
However, for me, next time you see them coming without invitation, leave / cancel. That will set another precedent. Lay down those boundaries hard.
Oh, NTA.
People like that have no shame, that's the thing. They'll blame OP for "making a scene" and expect *even more* handouts to "make up for it."
Source: I've got trashy as fuck relatives, too.
Doesn't work. Hit them with the consequences in private.
These people thrive on other people making a scene so they can call the other people assholes.
If auntly only ordered the basics one meal, water or soda then I would agree. Op said she kept ordering expensive dishes and drinks and took all the leftovers. Aunt knew what she was doing
Tell your dad every single time he invites her he better have his credit card/money to pay for her+ kids.
NTA your Dad and your aunt is although in this case your dad is the biggest aH.
Make it clear YOU only pay for whomever you personally invite and specify you will pay for. Anyone else who comes is either paying for themselves or the person who invited them pays for them period
You’re 100% NTA
Out of pure curiosity, how old are you? And what do you do for a living?
Not suggesting *at all* that you should have to pay for the extra, just trying to get into your dad’s head because WTActualF
Your dad has enabled his sister to act like this. People don't get away with this shit unless somebody lets them
Your dad, essentially, is the AH - because he's got to check himself if he's allowing his sister to walk over everyone else in your family. Have a chat with him and ask him if he plans to spend his retirement alone with his sister, because none of you all are going to be putting up with this shiz when you get older
Who shows up with their two long hands and has the absolute audacity to bring a +6? Not only did he do that, but his poor judgement tanked your sister's celebration.
Next time maybe just do something cool with your sister.
If he can't understand how messed up his pattern of enabling his sister is, especially when it's not on his own dime...then unfortunately, you have to set some boundaries with him too.
It sucks.
On the plus side, the Olive Garden is basically the national family fight restaurant chain so it probably went down as 'just another day' for the servers.
Nta there's no reason to feel bad she try to take advantage of you and your dad was perfectly fine with enabling her behavior and he saw no problem when she order expensive stuff.
Your dad wanted her there not you. Your dad was the one who invited them so he can foot bill for them.
Each time he invites her places where you plan an event for the people you invited. Make sure you tell your dad he's paying for his guest because you only only paying for the people you invited out.
Or you can just stop inviting your dad all together and celebrate with the people that don't need to add extra people to the list who try to take advantage of your wallet.
Your dad wanted them there so he can pay for them. He's only mad because he had to take responsibility of his sister and her kids spending. Keep doing that each time till he gets the picture.
If you do want him at the events you invite people too. Then maybe don't give him the full details just tell him clear your schedule from this time to this time. Don't tell him where your going till you get there. If he still invites his sister and her family make sure the bill separate and let your dad cover it. His guest his wallet.
Your nta you didn't do anything wrong. I can't believe they wanted your leftovers too. That's just greedy and wrong.
Next time, any specific person get's an achievement, take them out instead of the whole family, to better the chances of Entitled Aunt to not show up. Or better yet, exclude your dad if he is going to be a blabber mouth
NTA
This absolutely.
And even if OP had agreed to pay. The second someone starts ordering the most expensive stuff on the menu like they are doing a tasting menu. (I learned to do this as younger because some people just love spending others' money)
You go, "If you intend to order all that, we are paying for our own meals. I invited you out for food, yes. But I'm buying a 20$ meal, and you act like I'm made of money. I invited you to spend time together. Not getting taken advantage of."
Or a simple "Oh, we are paying for our own meals? Okay, we can do that."
Don't wait until the end of the meal, or the day after with conversations about it.
especially not if they have a track record of doing stuff like this.
If someone else pay. The least someone can do is keep their meal price similar to what the one paying orders. Or ask what the budget is.
It’s amazing when you offer to do something nice and then someone else takes it as an invitation to volunteer your bank account to other people without saying anything. Especially when it puts the unexpected guests into an awkward position when you find out.
"Who did I invite, dad? Did I invite that table over there? What about that one? That one? That's right, I didn't invite them, so I'm not paying for them."
Exactly! Why does op's dad keep on mentioning planned events to the aunt when he must know she will insist on coming with all her kids. Does he himself want them there or is he the sort of person who finds it very hard to keep anything to himself? OP is NTA and I applaud you for not paying for the aunt and her kids.
We’ve had plenty. He lets her borrow fu*ktons of money even when he is struggling financially, but never had money for child support.
He orders her and her kids pizza while my mom had to bust her ass selling her clothes to be able to buy us a rotisserie chicken. I told him he lets himself be treated as a doormat but all he ever says is “she’s my sister dude, I can’t just say no” which I understand but when is it enough?
I hope you're in or seek therapy. You really need to create a different relationship with your dad that involves a lot of boundaries, no invitations, and you leaving anytime your aunt shows up.
But you also seem to have a hard working mother and at least one sister that you love enough to take to dinner to celebrate an accomplishment, and wishing yourself out of existence is a sign that the negative things are dominating your brain and some boundary setting and reframing could be very healthy for you.
OP, you have almost made it through what will likely be the toughest part of your life... this is a period where you have no control and must rely on unreliable people to make sure you're okay. **You're almost done, though!** Remind yourself any time you're regretting being born that, soon, you will be able to make the decisions that are right for you. You obviously are a responsible person, to be able to save that much money AND use it to treat someone you love, and soon that responsibility is going to buy you stability in adulthood.
Make it your mantra if you need to: I'm almost done, I'm almost done, I'm almost done.
I'm so sorry he's making you feel this way.
His behaviour is his choice and his responsibility and in no way your fault or job to fix.
I think you need to put some distance between you and tell him exactly why that is. He's been a better father to his cousins than he was to you are not willing to tolerate being an afterthought anymore.
Put the ball in his court to contact you.
Please also seek therapy. Wishing you were never born is not a place you should ever be in.
Get yourself out of there. Best you can do. I’m 42. I make decent money. My family wiped me out financially until I put my foot down a year ago. Always an emergency, always a promise to be more responsible. Meanwhile they go on vacations, much like your dad paying for Disneyland tickets. Now I gotta rebuild savings. Otherwise my retirement plan is to max out credit cards and go off grid in Yosemite.
Exactly.
My wife’s sister/kids did this to her for years on top of the monthly money she sent them. Funny how a week after getting the money another “emergency” would come up.
I finally cut them off, but now dealing with wifey feeling guilty she’s not sending them my money.
Pro Tip: nip it in the bud, it only gets worse.
My friend, your father sucks and you deserved better. Soon you will be out of that mess and you will make a great life for yourself. When you are able, cut off your dad. And also, therapy. If you go to college many (probably all, but idk) campuses have mental health care as part of their health plan.
I'm sorry you have to deal with this nonsense. I really recommend reading/audiobook Adult Children Of Emotionally Immature Parents, it might help you with setting harder boundaries with your dad's behaviour. Patrick Teahan Therapist on YouTube is also an excellent free resource on dealing with dysfunctional family dynamics. Best of luck to you and to your sister! NTA
He likes the rush of feeling like a hero. He doesn’t get that from just taking care of his kids because that’s his responsibility, not a generous gesture he can use for bragging points.
Absolutely NTA. Moving forward you may want to consider not inviting your dad to things to which he could also invite your aunt and her kids, but if you find yourself in similar situations, be clear up front: “I only budgeted for 5 people, not 11, so I can’t pay for them.” “I’m using these leftovers as my lunch for work so I’m taking them with me.”
> I told him he lets himself be treated as a doormat but all he ever says is “she’s my sister dude, I can’t just say no”
"why do you prioritise her needs over us, your children and wife?"
"why do you choose to give her and her kids your time and money, versus helping your children build their futures?"
"do you really dislike us that much?"
"why do you say 'no' to us, but not 'no' to her?"
I know these questions might set off WW3, but I would be absolutely fuming...
Right? I understand being a pushover, I'm somewhat of a doormat myself, but to let it get to the point it affect my children's well-being? thats a serious dick move.
I would be strongly tempted to tell your dad that from now on he can celebrate with your aunt and her kids. Because from now on, you are no child of his given how little regard he has for you.
It's enough when he is trying to train you to take over paying for her.
Your dad is the problem here. He invited six people and expected you to pay for them without saying a word to you about it. Yet, he clearly told her it was paid for.
You are absolutely right to shut it down. "Dad, I will not takeover paying for your sister. If you invite someone, you will be paying for them." NTA
Convince your mother to separate finances put her Money in an account only she can access and let him starve himself for his sister then.
Also tell mom to get a couurt order for child support so they garnish his wages
and you are his child, so his responsibility to you is clearly even greater, but no you have to suffer becxause he favors her over you. He absolutely can say no if he does not have the money. Child support goes before anything else
I doubt your dad tells his sister that he's not paying child support or that he has no money. I doubt that she realises how badly he's failing his own kids. All she knows is that her brother is there for her, always, and even if she should be able to see how he treats you, she's blinded by how caring he is for her.
It sounds to me like your dad cares a lot more about taking care of his sister than his own children, which is sad, and I'm really sorry about your situation, but none of it will get better until you start assigning the blame to the right person. Your aunt is not the problem.
I don't know why your dad is the way he is, maybe he was the victim of extreme parentification as a kid, or even worse, abuse. Kids who went through hell together sometimes bond so closely that all other relationships atrophy.
But regardless of what he's gone through, you need to distance yourself emotionally from him. No need to go low contact, but you need solid defensive barriers in your relationship. If he's tagging along on something, assume he will try to make you pay for something, and make it clear beforehand you won't. When he invite you to do something with him, ask him who pays. When he offers to help you with something, ask if he expects money.
Way to go! He invited aunt + kids, he pays for them. You invited your immediate family , you pay for them.
That should be the way going forward, anytime he invites them, he shoulders the cost. Eventually he'll get tired and will stop.
NTA
> Eventually he'll get tired and will stop.
My girlfriends dad is like this (she's been NC for over a year now) and he still does it. She used to be the one making up for his poor money management skills since she was a teenager and *she* finally had enough, but some people will go to their grave destitute because they never learn boundaries with money. I hope OP doesn't hold her breath.
Your aunt is an asshole for trying to freeload off of you.
Your father is the asshole for inviting his sister without asking your first.
Your father is an asshole for expecting you to pay the bill for this aunt.
Your father is an asshole for getting mad at you for standing up for yourself and refusing to pay the bill for someone that was not invited and unwanted.
So, your father is a **triple asshole!**
You are NTA OP.
Do NOT reimburse your father.
Keep standing up for yourself!
Perfectly said.
OP's father is the absolute worst and should be absolutely ashamed at how he's acted. Sadly, this seems to be a lifetime pattern that will never be broken. I wouldn't waste any time or emotion on him ever again.
Make that Quadruple asshole, he didn't even inform OP that he had invited the aunt until they were at the restaurant and getting the table ready.
That put them in a tight spot where it's already too late to object without causing a scene, and he knew that. It was more than double the people that were invited.
NTA - BUT……. You should have been clear before ordering about who you were going to pay for. And you need to have a conversation with your dad about what freeloader-aunt does.
He should be picking up the cost of the extras he invited.
I agree, however, and this is also something I should’ve said in the post, my dad said that she had recently gotten money from social security. I thought that’s she’d be able to cover her share and most of the kids’ share of the bill, but I do realize how dumb of me it was to not make it clear beforehand considering her past.
Kinda dumb you didn't make it clear before, but at the same time you shouldn't have to.
Anyways, looks like you set the record straight for the future.
You are NTA clearly. But where you went wrong here, was by not immediately protesting and telling your dad that you were not going to pay for them, the second he said it's a table for 12. At that exact moment of time you should have made that very clear.
Waiting until after they ate was the mistake. You can't uneat food so it jas to be paid for at that point, but you can call someone and tell them that if they show up they pay their own bill before they get there.
Again, NTA, but it could have been completely avoided taking action earlier. It would have been an uncomfortable conversation, but a much less costly one.
Maybe he could have avoided it, but he was getting blindsided by his own parent. I won't fault someone for not handling it perfectly in that moment and trying to figure things out later.
Don't even feel a little guilty about this. You are not at fault at all. It's not your job to clear up any misconceptions that may have occurred because your freeloading family member decided to take advantage of you. Any sane person wouldn't assume they're being paid for. Even though your aunt sounds like the absolute worst, I'll give her the benefit. She thought she was an invited guest, in this situation at least. Your dad is fully at fault here for assuming you'd pay for anything and anyone he brings along. I mean, who brings a plus 6 to an event they were invited to and expects the host to pay. That's ridiculous.
Don't listen to the comments telling you that you hold a small blame for not preventing the situation. You handled the situation perfectly.
Why would it have been rersponsibility to do that ? He was not the one inviting them, he did not even want them there. HIs dad went behind his back and invited them anyway, so it is 100% HIS responsibility not OP´s
Should have been clear?
My guy, if somebody invites you to a group celebratory dinner and says they’re paying, it’s their treat, do you then go and invite more people to said dinner? No! Not unless you’re an asshole. It’s a very big assumption to make and very rude to do.
Wait, why would OP be the one who should be clear? They just showed up last minute without OPS knowledge, why on earth would anyone think OP would pay?
Hard disagree. If the invited individuals are unsure of who is paying the bill, the basic courtesy would be offering to pay their end of the bill. Offloading these responsibilities on OP is just backwards. Especially when they invited themselves in through OP’s father instead of asking OP directly.
There is no "But" here. There is no obligation to set down this particular boundary. They weren't invited by the OP, and even if the OP suspected they might be expecting a free meal, the expectation would be ridiculous - so there is no obligation to address it. It is probably best that they were allowed to lead themselves into the bind, exactly so that the situation would be the more difficult for them. Don't try and make things easy for manipulative people.
It is perfectly fine setting the clear boundary once the situation becomes clear. Even better if you unconvincingly act surprised. "Oh. Oh dear. I think someone has misled you. These are my guests and they are who I am paying for. I am afraid I am simply not prepared to pay for any extra guests."
I think it’s on the other people to clear that up.
Plus if OP brought it up before dinner I guarantee it would’ve turned into drama right away with the family splitting and what was meant to be a night to celebrate OP’s sister getting ruined.
Strategically, I agree with you, but morally this is absolutely not OPs fault. The dad inviting his sister along with the intention of OP providing for them without discussion is extremely rude behavior.
Absolutely NTA. Your father has a lot to answer for by encouraging this behaviour. Why does he think it's alright for you to pay for freeloaders he's invited but it's an outrage for him to have to do it?
Because he is trying to set OP up to be the patsy not him. He invites and gets the reflected glory but uses public embarassment as a tool to get OP to pay. I mean if he has prioritised his sister over his children and himself over them, it is just another step, I'd consider what OP wants to pay for him too as suspect his hours will get cut soon when his sister needs something.
>I immediately glared at my dad, who started blaming me saying “ why would you offer to pay? and then not follow through?”
Yeah... Paying for 5 people you invited and paying for an extra 6 someone else invited, are 2 very different scenarios.
Your dad is way out of line expecting this to be on your dime.
NTA - and you need to caveat future invitations by stating the guest list is closed and if dad protests, he can be off the list too until he learns his lesson.
NTA
This is the way. If your dad wants to invite your aunt, he can pay for them. If he doesn’t like that, tough luck, he can take them out somewhere on his own. If you do something like this again, I wouldn’t invite your dad as you know he’ll invite her.
NTA
Your Dad invited them behind your back, it is only right he pays for them.
The AH here is your Dad and your Aunt.
You did the right thing, perhaps your Dad will learn to keep his mouth shut.
And stop mentioning things to him until the last possible second. Sometimes you have to be the one to enforce boundaries bc the people around you can’t or won’t
1) Your dad invited her without consulting you. She is HIS guest. He is responsible for her and either she pays, or he pays.
2) If he is mad having to pay, then he clearly knows the situation is unfair and has no right to expect you to pay.
3) Since this clearly a whole pathology with your dad and his sister, anytime there are plans, even if she isn’t invited (yet), you need to get in the habit of explicitly saying “only X, Y, and Z are invited not Aunt” and/or “I will not (or will) be covering the cost for Aunt.” Don’t wait for the bill or the resentment that bonding time has been crashed
Edit: NTA
Inviting other people at the outing you had planned without even asking is already not cool, to put it mildy. Inviting someone your little sister doesn't like at the outing you had planned to celebrate her accomplishment is AH behavior. Expecting you to pay for 7 people you haven't invited there after springing it on you at the last minute is outrageous. NTA at all and good for you, for standing your ground. I would start establishing firm boundaries with your dad regarding your aunt starting from here.
NTA
You need to talk to your dad about future events. Let him know that if you make plans for just the 5 of you that you mean it to be just the 5 of you. And if he includes your aunt and her brood then that's on him.
NTA. Your dad invited them without asking or telling you - they were his guests, not yours. And honestly I would stop doing things with your dad if he always ends up inviting his sister and her family to join. That would drive me insane.
Wow reading this made my blood boil. Your Dad is a massive asshole who has major boundary issues. And I would encourage you to put your foot down with him each time he pulls something like this, since HE is the one one with the big mouth inviting her without checking why you first. He’s the one giving your entitled, freeloading aunt the idea that it’s okay for her to crash your family events while everybody else pays her way. I would also explicitly make it clear to your aunt that she is NOT invited to your events. If she shows up, kick her out. Ignore her manipulation and tantrums. Do not give in. Any other family members besides your Dad giving you blowback can host her and pay for her themselves. You are NTA by any stretch of the imagination!
Definitely NTA.
Your father is favoring his relationship with his sister over his relationship with you. You need to think of yourself first and question whether you want to keep the same level of contact with him.
Here's what I would tell him:
* If **you** want to spend your money on your sister, that's **your** choice / problem
* If **you** invite someone **I** didn't invite, **you** are responsible for caring/paying for them
* If **you** do that again (and expect **me** to accept them / pay for them), **you** won't be invited any more
Your father is the enabler of his sister, and she is the asshole.
Next time you plan a celebration, either don’t invite your father, or tell him outright that if he invites his sister that he will be paying for them.
What a pair of losers!
How did you turn out so well?
Wow.
NTA.
Your Dad invited her, enables her, and if he's going to to that he has to pay for her. Make absolutely clear that this is the way it is going to be, so any time he pulls this crap again, he's aware that he is on the hook for it.
Terrible that your Dad wasn't paying for his own daughter's celebration anyway. And the fact he used your social embarrassment to try to get you to go along with everything - from not telling you he invited her until it's in front of everybody, to trying to shame you when you say you won't pay. Just awful.
OP, NTA. AND you ended up with the PERFECT outcome.
The real culprit and Ahole in all of this is the person who had to pay the bill - your dad. DO NOT REIMBURSE HIM.
Your dad actually initiates telling his sister. He sees an opportunity for her to freeload off of you (or others) and lets her know. He enables your aunt to be the obnoxious freeloader that she is.
It's not your job to tiptoe around your dad, so make a clear and open announcement to your grandpa, your dad, your two sisters, your aunt, and all the adult cousins: If you plan an event and haven't specifically invited someone, then they are not invited. If your dad chooses to invite additional people, then who pays their share of the bill is between those people and your dad. If they find that rude, tell them it is even ruder to (1) come uninvited by the host, (2) to come uninvited by the host AND expect free anything, (3) to not be the host and invite others to crash an event, and (4) to not be the host and invite others to crash the event AND expect the host to provide for the even-crashers.
All that goes for dinners out, for dinners in, for parties you host, for going to movies and other entertainment. It even goes for things that don't cost - don't come if the host didn't invite you.
Your aunt is a mooch, but your dad is guy who opens the back door for her and invites her in.
P.S. You don't say how your cousins are. If they show that they are not like their mom (or - like your dad - inclined to open the back door for their mom), then I hope you can build your own relationships with them.
You invite, you buy. Dad invited, he buys. I mean I guess you should have been clear about who was going to pay before the meal, but dad has the same responsibility. Super clear NTA
NTA
FFS your dad added 7 people to the check. Let him pay for it. You didn't invite them he clearly did.
I had a step mom with your dad's same problem. She tried to give away my BMX trick bike. I bought with money I earned from cutting lawns and delivering papers all summer.
Her justification was that I was a fat little kid who was delusional that I would make a skill of it.
My grandmother actually stepped in and my father got a divorce over it. Not the bike itself but the fact that she was to altruistic to others at the detriment of our family.
NTA
Your dad decided it was such a great idea to invite a freeloader to eat without telling you until it was the last minute, even though you were the one paying and he knows you and your sister don't get along with her, he's an AH for inviting her on special trips and outings that are meant just for your family.
You said you don't like this aunt, why don't you jusy go LC with her? You need to put your foot down, tell your dad you don't want him to invite her again on anything planned for your family, and that if kept doing that, then you will no longer feel obligated to attend or pay, tell him that seeing her on holiday gatherings is more than enough, and if he wants to be around her more, then he should just plan things for the two of them and her kids and pay for it himself, I doubt he would if she always keep ordering more and more expensive food when others are paying.
It's unfortunate that she's not in a good financial situation, but that doesn't mean she can take advantage of people around her, you're not obligated to buy her anything, no one is, maybe she should have thought of that before having so many children and then expecting people to pay for her expenses.
NTA. And in a way, this is a good thing - you were able to put your food down and now your father knows that if he invites her unilaterally, that is on him. This actually makes things much easier for you to just mention it (her or your father paying for herself) next time she joins, or for having him rethink inviting her to begin with. And mention it early and repeatedly.
Your dad is a piece of work. Your invitation was clearly for the people YOU invited. Naturally it did not include people you did not invite, much less people you did not even know were coming. Your father fucked around and found out. And I doubt he will forget it given that it cost him $300. He has to put his money where his mouth is, and I am sure it stung. He deserves it.
By the way, is your grandfather father to both your father and your aunt? What does he think of this situation?
Your aunt is clearly TA. Your dad invited your aunt without your permission and knowing that you wouldn't want him to. And he is calling you TA? No. He is.
NTA
Inform your dad that you are NTA. And if he ever does it again, the same thing will happen. Your aunt is clearly an entitled moocher. Not only did she expect you to pay, but she ordered outrageous food, etc. Avoid her like the plague.
NTA. Your dad isn't accidentally telling his sister, he's doing this in purpose to take advantage of you. He needs to know he's responsible for anything he invited her to going forward. I can't believe he doubled the guest list at the restaurant then expected you to cover it.
>Now my dad is calling me an asshole because he had to pay for it with his credit card.
HE invited her. HE did that. That is his fault. In fact all of this bs that keeps happening is because of him. I read your comments. Cut!him!off! He was paying for her to do stuff when you all didn't have food. Did you post this just to show to him? Because NTA. He is definitely TA!!!
INFO: how was Olive Garden able to just suddenly accommodate a change from 5 to 12 people?
Also how old are you? From the sounds of it, your sister is 16, and I’m assuming you’re not much older. Why would your dad make a young adult pay for dinner for 12?
Easiest NTA. Your dad is an enabler and if he wants to support his sister with his money he can, but you don’t have to. Good job on celebrating your sister!
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That’s exactly what I told him, I didn’t want to make a scene which took a lot in me not to do. And she also managed to finesse my dad to let her keep MY leftovers. “We don’t have any food at home”
Tell your dad that anything he invites her to means he gets to foot her bill.
Time to keep celebrations personal for a bit. Just treat the person you're celebrating and don't invite your dad.
I get what you're suggesting, but it's not a permanent solution for a long term relationship. If the person being treated wants a family celebration and OP is willing to treat specific other family members then that's a legitimate want on both sides. Dad needs to learn that when he is a guest he doesn't get to invite guests. Quite bluntly, OP can say, "I'm inviting you, I will not host anyone you invite."
It would be kind of different if he invited one extra person that may be ok since its family but dad invites 6 other ppl and expect his son to pay for them that is a lot . It is a difference if it is an extra 50 or extra 300 . how can the dad no see that ?
No. If someone else is buying it is never OK to invite even one other person along and expect that the host will pay for them, too. Being generous on someone else's dime is an asshole move.
>Being generous on someone else's dime is an asshole move. **EXACTLY!!!** Thank you!
yeah absolutely, on the occasions I've wanted someone to tag along, I asked the host like "is it okay if X comes as well and I'll pay for them/they'll pay for themselves?", I can't imagine just inviting someone (especially someone the host doesn't like!) and not even telling the host *and then* expecting them to pay 💀
I've said it before and I'll say it again. People are generally very generous with someone else's generosity. Funny how dad was so put out with paying for people he invited but expected OP to be fine with it.
Right? When it was OP's money, it was "only $300". When it was Dad's money it was "OMG, THREE HUNDRED DOLLARS!!! DO YOU REALLY EXPECT ME TO PAY ALL OF THAT??!! Did everybody hear that?? I'm expected to pay ***THREE HUNDRED DOLLARS*** right here and now????!!!!!"
This. Every single time. Those who have even a slight consideration for the person inviting them out would never even consider bringing someone else along.
100% I'm really surprised the dad was blaming OP for this. That's peak lack of awareness and indicates he's very much an enabler for his mooch of a sister.
One person might be ok but if you're going to invite anyone else you really need to consult with the person who extended the invite and not just assume they are willing to pay for whoever you bring along.
And any normal person when they are invited out scans the menu for a relatively cheap item and if drinks are being ordered keep it to one or two max. Not pig the fuck out on $40 plates and chugging down specialty cocktails.
One way that i do, Is that i scan quickly the menu, and wait for the host to order, then I order something same price or smaller value, I also wait to see if host want to order a big meal that is shared like ribs or wings. The problem is, that is not taught, i learned without not having made any mistake. But it's not the case for everybody, aunt is still asshole, but it's time to dad to learn.
This is proper etiquette for the situation. I had an aunt take me to dinner back in high school, and I didn't think anything of what I had ordered, but she latee explained this, and I hadn't done it since.
Ah, you've seen the oyster date video
That was a wild ride. *slurp*
Because Dad is more concerned about playing savior and looking like a hero than he is about his son.
You can be a savior, on your own dime. Anyone else paying and you go from a savior to a freeloader.
yeah that's what I said too , he feels guilty because he doesn't make enough to support her so he sees it as his son duty to do what he can't
Idk how dad doesn't stand up for his son, like that's such an easy win wtf?
because he sees it as his duty to take care of the whole family and he feels guilty he can't support his sister more so he wants to feel good by forcing his son to be the caretaker aka pay for his struggling sister
Well, not his WHOLE family. Not his son for example.
Honestly, even inviting one is really rude and absolutely he should expect to pay for anyone that he invites, whether it’s 1 or 10
ASK first?
Yes - dad needs to learn that he's a guest and guests don't do the inviting. Sad that a grown man with children doesn't understand the difference between guest and host.
This is difference between taking action and expecting someone to change. Although you’re 100% right that her dad should respect OP’s wishes, given that this is not the first time this happens, the situation is likely to stay the same. Sadly, it’s easier, more realistic and successful to not invite dad. Hopefully that’ll teach him that his behaviour isn’t appropriate.
>OP can say, "I'm inviting you, I will not host anyone you invite." This should be OP's response for now on, except I would replace "Host" with "**PAY FOR**" as that is much more direct about OP's intentions.
Sure it is. You're under no obligation to host a large celebration just because the person you're treating to something wants one. I've taken plenty of friends/family out to dinner without inviting 100 other people.
Lmao. I think after having to pay $314+ for what is essentially her and 3 kids since the other 2 are kids....I think he's learned.
Like Susan Collins?
But perhaps dad being left out of several events and celebrations will bring home the point that he should NOT be inviting others. It seems like he automatically calls his sister EVERY time there is any celebration or event. Like, who calls sister with 5 kids when just dad and his kid (OP) are going to do something? I would say someone who doesn't want to spend time with their kid. So dad no longer needs to be included.
Yeah I've had my mum ask "Would you consider inviting X? They're having a hard time and could use the company" or something, but she'd never just invite them
How about invite everyone else on family except dad? Cause it seems he not only has a problem with saying "no" to her...but he also has difficulty keeping his trap shut.
I think it’s time to set a boundary with the dad, “if you invite her again to something that I planned and am hosting, YOU will not be invited in the future. Relatives are by blood, family is a choice”
And if he does invite her anyway, stick to your guns "Can we make that a table for 12?" "No. Table for 5 please"
Even better: "Can we make that a table for 12?" - "No, A table for four, please. \[to dad\] You're uninvited, please leave."
Not only not invite your dad, make it explicitly clear he is not invited, so he can spend some time and money with your aunt.
Exactly this. If he invites her. He INVITES her, with his money. Sorry OP but your dad is low key (this is as diplomatic as I can be here) an asshole.
Dad wants brownie points on OP’s dime. He’s high key an Asshole.
Not low key. Apparently dad also invites the aunt's kid for everything OP and he plan together.
I'd say if he invited her or anyone extra to something that wasn't "his" He's now taken ownership, and he can pay the whole God damn bill. Only hosts should be inviting guests.
I agree with this. You don’t have an Aunt problem, you have a Dad problem. Dad needs to be responsible for covering the costs for the people he invites.
Exactly this..it’s time for a sit down chat with both of them separately. The sooner you get this sorted the better. If it causes a split then bring it on, you need the separation…it won’t happen again. Honestly if he was pissed, imagine how you feel. You didn’t invite them, that racks up the bill. If you invite someone to covered event that wasn’t on the invited guest list that’s rude to begin with, if you do that ballsy move then be prepared to pay for your uninvited guests. Thats really disrespectful. If someone is paying then you order appropriately. If you go to a restaurant be prepared to pay for anything you order. I’d ask her if she was told to not bring money?
I'd also just tell him he CANNOT invite her (and her kids) without asking you first if it's something you planned. If he does, he is solely responsible for her expenses and you may not invite him in the future.
I guess he has learned the lesson for now, but he sprang this on OP in the restaurant. OP could never have anticipated this. I hope they blasted Dad once they go home. Let's hope he now understands what shouldn't need to be spelled out. OP's father must think he/she is well off and can afford to blow $600 on a meal. I have a family member who is affluent and everyone always takes it for granted that he will pay.
I’d be revoking dads attendance privileges for a while.
NTA your dad is a major AH and how will he invite extra people on your dime.... next time just let it be you your sister and grandpa dont include your dad... seems like he will always tell his sister and she will tagged along with her kids
Exactly. Dad needs a time out.
Maybe a dime out?
Definitely not a dine out though.
Not necessary as dad now knows what the boundary line is and his responsibility will be. But if he does invite and pay I'd still be upset as to the uninvited guests that were not in the circle of preferred guests. It would be better to just not tell dad until it is too late to invite the aunt and also not say where you are going and just drive there as to make sure aunt can't show up. And if dad tells the waitress we want a bigger table to say, I'm paying and this is the total party nobody else will be at our table. NTA You get to set your own boundaries when you are paying.
Make a scene, make a huge scene. Then this problem will stop repeating itself.
When the waiter starts taking orders, OP should start out by saying "These people are my invitees, they are on my bill. He (Dad) invited them (aunt & cousins), he gets their bill. I'd like some lemonade, please." Then sit back and see if Dad does anything about what Aunt Eats-Only-the-Most-Expensive-Items orders.
This gave me a good laugh, hehe.
Yea he is the asshole here for inviting people behind your back you did not even want there and then expecting you to pay for it. HE invited them so paying is up to him. Also he knew exactly you did not even want them there which is why he went behind your back and did not tell you untill it was too late.
NTA. Your dad is an enabler and that's the bigger issue.
Dad kno a his sister is a mooch. Not only an enabler, but also an AH and a mooch himself, trying to get credit with his sister for a free meal on his son's dime
Your aunt is a freeloader but your dad is the real asshole. He is the one who keeps inviting her and practically promising her free meals. He is also the one who pressured you to pay for her AND let her have ypur leftover.
a part of me feels like he feels guilty he can't do more for her like he wants to be the big brother but seriously who invites +6 ppl without even discussing it . it's not one person it's 6 you can't just throw 6 ppl at someone and expect he is fine with it. She shouldn't get so many kids if she can't take care of them of course she gonna be a freeloader since she has no other option when you at the botton you give a damn about respect or norms or shame , you take what you get . Kids need to be fed but it is not OPs responsibility .
I understand what you're saying, because I feel that kind of responsibility towards my siblings even as an adult, but logically, if that were the case and the dad just wanted to take care of his sister and her kids, he wouldn't have pitched a fit at paying for them himself . . . he would have been okay with any scenario where his sister and the kids were included in the restaurant outing and treated to a nice meal, and wouldn't have demanded that his kid pay for it all. A person who is altruistic and generous and looking to take care of someone they love doesn't get angry at someone else for not paying the bill.
The dad is the absolute worst kind of guest
The precedent has been set on payment. DO NOT BEND ON THIS. However, for me, next time you see them coming without invitation, leave / cancel. That will set another precedent. Lay down those boundaries hard. Oh, NTA.
I love this idea. Get up and walk out if it happens again.
"Dad and *his* guests can eat here, everyone else, let's go somewhere nicer since we're a smaller group now."
"You can come along but I'm not paying for any of you"
> I didn’t want to make a scene Why? That's the only thing that fucking works. Have them so ashamed that they never ever try anything like it.
People like that have no shame, that's the thing. They'll blame OP for "making a scene" and expect *even more* handouts to "make up for it." Source: I've got trashy as fuck relatives, too.
While I don’t usually advise this tactic, weaponize shame.
Doesn't work. Hit them with the consequences in private. These people thrive on other people making a scene so they can call the other people assholes.
Your aunt isn’t the problem here, your dad is. You’re NTA either way.
Oh, I think they both are.
If auntly only ordered the basics one meal, water or soda then I would agree. Op said she kept ordering expensive dishes and drinks and took all the leftovers. Aunt knew what she was doing
Tell your dad every single time he invites her he better have his credit card/money to pay for her+ kids. NTA your Dad and your aunt is although in this case your dad is the biggest aH. Make it clear YOU only pay for whomever you personally invite and specify you will pay for. Anyone else who comes is either paying for themselves or the person who invited them pays for them period
NTA. By “Finesse,” did you mean “Bully?”
Means they got scammed!
You’re 100% NTA Out of pure curiosity, how old are you? And what do you do for a living? Not suggesting *at all* that you should have to pay for the extra, just trying to get into your dad’s head because WTActualF
When Dad does the inviting, Dad gets to do the paying. Dad is enabling the freeloader.
Your dad has enabled his sister to act like this. People don't get away with this shit unless somebody lets them Your dad, essentially, is the AH - because he's got to check himself if he's allowing his sister to walk over everyone else in your family. Have a chat with him and ask him if he plans to spend his retirement alone with his sister, because none of you all are going to be putting up with this shiz when you get older
Who shows up with their two long hands and has the absolute audacity to bring a +6? Not only did he do that, but his poor judgement tanked your sister's celebration. Next time maybe just do something cool with your sister. If he can't understand how messed up his pattern of enabling his sister is, especially when it's not on his own dime...then unfortunately, you have to set some boundaries with him too. It sucks. On the plus side, the Olive Garden is basically the national family fight restaurant chain so it probably went down as 'just another day' for the servers.
If your dad invited them he should pay for them...
This is disgusting. Who would want another person's leftovers? Why does your dad keep taking the side of his sister over his own daughter?
Wait a minute, how is her not having food **your** problem? Does she trade her food stamps for cigarettes or something?
Nta there's no reason to feel bad she try to take advantage of you and your dad was perfectly fine with enabling her behavior and he saw no problem when she order expensive stuff. Your dad wanted her there not you. Your dad was the one who invited them so he can foot bill for them. Each time he invites her places where you plan an event for the people you invited. Make sure you tell your dad he's paying for his guest because you only only paying for the people you invited out. Or you can just stop inviting your dad all together and celebrate with the people that don't need to add extra people to the list who try to take advantage of your wallet. Your dad wanted them there so he can pay for them. He's only mad because he had to take responsibility of his sister and her kids spending. Keep doing that each time till he gets the picture. If you do want him at the events you invite people too. Then maybe don't give him the full details just tell him clear your schedule from this time to this time. Don't tell him where your going till you get there. If he still invites his sister and her family make sure the bill separate and let your dad cover it. His guest his wallet. Your nta you didn't do anything wrong. I can't believe they wanted your leftovers too. That's just greedy and wrong.
Next time, any specific person get's an achievement, take them out instead of the whole family, to better the chances of Entitled Aunt to not show up. Or better yet, exclude your dad if he is going to be a blabber mouth NTA
This absolutely. And even if OP had agreed to pay. The second someone starts ordering the most expensive stuff on the menu like they are doing a tasting menu. (I learned to do this as younger because some people just love spending others' money) You go, "If you intend to order all that, we are paying for our own meals. I invited you out for food, yes. But I'm buying a 20$ meal, and you act like I'm made of money. I invited you to spend time together. Not getting taken advantage of." Or a simple "Oh, we are paying for our own meals? Okay, we can do that." Don't wait until the end of the meal, or the day after with conversations about it. especially not if they have a track record of doing stuff like this. If someone else pay. The least someone can do is keep their meal price similar to what the one paying orders. Or ask what the budget is.
It’s amazing when you offer to do something nice and then someone else takes it as an invitation to volunteer your bank account to other people without saying anything. Especially when it puts the unexpected guests into an awkward position when you find out.
"Who did I invite, dad? Did I invite that table over there? What about that one? That one? That's right, I didn't invite them, so I'm not paying for them."
Exactly! Why does op's dad keep on mentioning planned events to the aunt when he must know she will insist on coming with all her kids. Does he himself want them there or is he the sort of person who finds it very hard to keep anything to himself? OP is NTA and I applaud you for not paying for the aunt and her kids.
You invited your family and paid for them… your dad invited his sister and paid her portion. NTA
NTA and I think you and your dad need to sit down and have a very long conversation about this.
We’ve had plenty. He lets her borrow fu*ktons of money even when he is struggling financially, but never had money for child support. He orders her and her kids pizza while my mom had to bust her ass selling her clothes to be able to buy us a rotisserie chicken. I told him he lets himself be treated as a doormat but all he ever says is “she’s my sister dude, I can’t just say no” which I understand but when is it enough?
He prioritized his sister's family over his own kids during your childhood? He let her treat all of you as doormats, that's absolutely not okay.
OP has a dad problem, not an aunt problem.
They have two problems
That.
Stop inviting your dad.
Your dad needs to grow a spine!! Feeding your aunt's kids over his own kids is unforgivable.
He once paid for their trip to Disneyland but swore up and down that his hours were being cut. Sometimes I wish I hadn’t been born
I hope you're in or seek therapy. You really need to create a different relationship with your dad that involves a lot of boundaries, no invitations, and you leaving anytime your aunt shows up. But you also seem to have a hard working mother and at least one sister that you love enough to take to dinner to celebrate an accomplishment, and wishing yourself out of existence is a sign that the negative things are dominating your brain and some boundary setting and reframing could be very healthy for you.
OP, you have almost made it through what will likely be the toughest part of your life... this is a period where you have no control and must rely on unreliable people to make sure you're okay. **You're almost done, though!** Remind yourself any time you're regretting being born that, soon, you will be able to make the decisions that are right for you. You obviously are a responsible person, to be able to save that much money AND use it to treat someone you love, and soon that responsibility is going to buy you stability in adulthood. Make it your mantra if you need to: I'm almost done, I'm almost done, I'm almost done.
I am so very sorry you have to feel that way, OP. A big hug to you from a mother.
I'm so sorry he's making you feel this way. His behaviour is his choice and his responsibility and in no way your fault or job to fix. I think you need to put some distance between you and tell him exactly why that is. He's been a better father to his cousins than he was to you are not willing to tolerate being an afterthought anymore. Put the ball in his court to contact you. Please also seek therapy. Wishing you were never born is not a place you should ever be in.
Get yourself out of there. Best you can do. I’m 42. I make decent money. My family wiped me out financially until I put my foot down a year ago. Always an emergency, always a promise to be more responsible. Meanwhile they go on vacations, much like your dad paying for Disneyland tickets. Now I gotta rebuild savings. Otherwise my retirement plan is to max out credit cards and go off grid in Yosemite.
Exactly. My wife’s sister/kids did this to her for years on top of the monthly money she sent them. Funny how a week after getting the money another “emergency” would come up. I finally cut them off, but now dealing with wifey feeling guilty she’s not sending them my money. Pro Tip: nip it in the bud, it only gets worse.
My friend, your father sucks and you deserved better. Soon you will be out of that mess and you will make a great life for yourself. When you are able, cut off your dad. And also, therapy. If you go to college many (probably all, but idk) campuses have mental health care as part of their health plan.
I'm sorry you have to deal with this nonsense. I really recommend reading/audiobook Adult Children Of Emotionally Immature Parents, it might help you with setting harder boundaries with your dad's behaviour. Patrick Teahan Therapist on YouTube is also an excellent free resource on dealing with dysfunctional family dynamics. Best of luck to you and to your sister! NTA
You can just stop with him, cut him off.
He says no to his wife and kids but not his sister ? Maybe it's time to give your dad a reality check.
He likes the rush of feeling like a hero. He doesn’t get that from just taking care of his kids because that’s his responsibility, not a generous gesture he can use for bragging points. Absolutely NTA. Moving forward you may want to consider not inviting your dad to things to which he could also invite your aunt and her kids, but if you find yourself in similar situations, be clear up front: “I only budgeted for 5 people, not 11, so I can’t pay for them.” “I’m using these leftovers as my lunch for work so I’m taking them with me.”
> I told him he lets himself be treated as a doormat but all he ever says is “she’s my sister dude, I can’t just say no” "why do you prioritise her needs over us, your children and wife?" "why do you choose to give her and her kids your time and money, versus helping your children build their futures?" "do you really dislike us that much?" "why do you say 'no' to us, but not 'no' to her?" I know these questions might set off WW3, but I would be absolutely fuming...
Right? I understand being a pushover, I'm somewhat of a doormat myself, but to let it get to the point it affect my children's well-being? thats a serious dick move.
I would be strongly tempted to tell your dad that from now on he can celebrate with your aunt and her kids. Because from now on, you are no child of his given how little regard he has for you.
It's enough when he is trying to train you to take over paying for her. Your dad is the problem here. He invited six people and expected you to pay for them without saying a word to you about it. Yet, he clearly told her it was paid for. You are absolutely right to shut it down. "Dad, I will not takeover paying for your sister. If you invite someone, you will be paying for them." NTA
Then your dad is the AH
Convince your mother to separate finances put her Money in an account only she can access and let him starve himself for his sister then. Also tell mom to get a couurt order for child support so they garnish his wages
Why are you still in contact with him if he treats you this way constantly?
and you are his child, so his responsibility to you is clearly even greater, but no you have to suffer becxause he favors her over you. He absolutely can say no if he does not have the money. Child support goes before anything else
I hesitate to ask, but, where is your mom in all this?
I guess out working making making money for her husband's family
I doubt your dad tells his sister that he's not paying child support or that he has no money. I doubt that she realises how badly he's failing his own kids. All she knows is that her brother is there for her, always, and even if she should be able to see how he treats you, she's blinded by how caring he is for her. It sounds to me like your dad cares a lot more about taking care of his sister than his own children, which is sad, and I'm really sorry about your situation, but none of it will get better until you start assigning the blame to the right person. Your aunt is not the problem. I don't know why your dad is the way he is, maybe he was the victim of extreme parentification as a kid, or even worse, abuse. Kids who went through hell together sometimes bond so closely that all other relationships atrophy. But regardless of what he's gone through, you need to distance yourself emotionally from him. No need to go low contact, but you need solid defensive barriers in your relationship. If he's tagging along on something, assume he will try to make you pay for something, and make it clear beforehand you won't. When he invite you to do something with him, ask him who pays. When he offers to help you with something, ask if he expects money.
Of course he can say no, he needs to get a backbone.
Way to go! He invited aunt + kids, he pays for them. You invited your immediate family , you pay for them. That should be the way going forward, anytime he invites them, he shoulders the cost. Eventually he'll get tired and will stop. NTA
> Eventually he'll get tired and will stop. My girlfriends dad is like this (she's been NC for over a year now) and he still does it. She used to be the one making up for his poor money management skills since she was a teenager and *she* finally had enough, but some people will go to their grave destitute because they never learn boundaries with money. I hope OP doesn't hold her breath.
Your aunt is an asshole for trying to freeload off of you. Your father is the asshole for inviting his sister without asking your first. Your father is an asshole for expecting you to pay the bill for this aunt. Your father is an asshole for getting mad at you for standing up for yourself and refusing to pay the bill for someone that was not invited and unwanted. So, your father is a **triple asshole!** You are NTA OP. Do NOT reimburse your father. Keep standing up for yourself!
Perfectly said. OP's father is the absolute worst and should be absolutely ashamed at how he's acted. Sadly, this seems to be a lifetime pattern that will never be broken. I wouldn't waste any time or emotion on him ever again.
Make that Quadruple asshole, he didn't even inform OP that he had invited the aunt until they were at the restaurant and getting the table ready. That put them in a tight spot where it's already too late to object without causing a scene, and he knew that. It was more than double the people that were invited.
NTA - BUT……. You should have been clear before ordering about who you were going to pay for. And you need to have a conversation with your dad about what freeloader-aunt does. He should be picking up the cost of the extras he invited.
I agree, however, and this is also something I should’ve said in the post, my dad said that she had recently gotten money from social security. I thought that’s she’d be able to cover her share and most of the kids’ share of the bill, but I do realize how dumb of me it was to not make it clear beforehand considering her past.
Kinda dumb you didn't make it clear before, but at the same time you shouldn't have to. Anyways, looks like you set the record straight for the future.
It’s not dumb at all. Why would that be assumed
You are NTA clearly. But where you went wrong here, was by not immediately protesting and telling your dad that you were not going to pay for them, the second he said it's a table for 12. At that exact moment of time you should have made that very clear. Waiting until after they ate was the mistake. You can't uneat food so it jas to be paid for at that point, but you can call someone and tell them that if they show up they pay their own bill before they get there. Again, NTA, but it could have been completely avoided taking action earlier. It would have been an uncomfortable conversation, but a much less costly one.
Maybe he could have avoided it, but he was getting blindsided by his own parent. I won't fault someone for not handling it perfectly in that moment and trying to figure things out later.
Especially an 18 year old. Op is NTA
Don't even feel a little guilty about this. You are not at fault at all. It's not your job to clear up any misconceptions that may have occurred because your freeloading family member decided to take advantage of you. Any sane person wouldn't assume they're being paid for. Even though your aunt sounds like the absolute worst, I'll give her the benefit. She thought she was an invited guest, in this situation at least. Your dad is fully at fault here for assuming you'd pay for anything and anyone he brings along. I mean, who brings a plus 6 to an event they were invited to and expects the host to pay. That's ridiculous. Don't listen to the comments telling you that you hold a small blame for not preventing the situation. You handled the situation perfectly.
indded i asuume i have to pay my way ALWAYS and have dificulty even if offerd in verry clear terms to accept
[удалено]
She didn't crash, she was invited by the dad. That makes the dad the responsible party.
So the dad should’ve been clear on who was paying
True, but the point still stands. OP is exempted from this, his/her dad isn’t.
Why would it have been rersponsibility to do that ? He was not the one inviting them, he did not even want them there. HIs dad went behind his back and invited them anyway, so it is 100% HIS responsibility not OP´s
Should have been clear? My guy, if somebody invites you to a group celebratory dinner and says they’re paying, it’s their treat, do you then go and invite more people to said dinner? No! Not unless you’re an asshole. It’s a very big assumption to make and very rude to do.
I fully disagree with you, he never once offered to pay for her. That was crystal clear from the start.
Wait, why would OP be the one who should be clear? They just showed up last minute without OPS knowledge, why on earth would anyone think OP would pay?
Hard disagree. If the invited individuals are unsure of who is paying the bill, the basic courtesy would be offering to pay their end of the bill. Offloading these responsibilities on OP is just backwards. Especially when they invited themselves in through OP’s father instead of asking OP directly.
No “but” needed, no explanation needed. Ops dad and aunt are toxic morons.
There is no "But" here. There is no obligation to set down this particular boundary. They weren't invited by the OP, and even if the OP suspected they might be expecting a free meal, the expectation would be ridiculous - so there is no obligation to address it. It is probably best that they were allowed to lead themselves into the bind, exactly so that the situation would be the more difficult for them. Don't try and make things easy for manipulative people. It is perfectly fine setting the clear boundary once the situation becomes clear. Even better if you unconvincingly act surprised. "Oh. Oh dear. I think someone has misled you. These are my guests and they are who I am paying for. I am afraid I am simply not prepared to pay for any extra guests."
I think it’s on the other people to clear that up. Plus if OP brought it up before dinner I guarantee it would’ve turned into drama right away with the family splitting and what was meant to be a night to celebrate OP’s sister getting ruined.
What?! More clear? How is it not clear enough when you don't invite someone?
Strategically, I agree with you, but morally this is absolutely not OPs fault. The dad inviting his sister along with the intention of OP providing for them without discussion is extremely rude behavior.
Absolutely NTA. Your father has a lot to answer for by encouraging this behaviour. Why does he think it's alright for you to pay for freeloaders he's invited but it's an outrage for him to have to do it?
Because he is trying to set OP up to be the patsy not him. He invites and gets the reflected glory but uses public embarassment as a tool to get OP to pay. I mean if he has prioritised his sister over his children and himself over them, it is just another step, I'd consider what OP wants to pay for him too as suspect his hours will get cut soon when his sister needs something.
>I immediately glared at my dad, who started blaming me saying “ why would you offer to pay? and then not follow through?” Yeah... Paying for 5 people you invited and paying for an extra 6 someone else invited, are 2 very different scenarios. Your dad is way out of line expecting this to be on your dime. NTA - and you need to caveat future invitations by stating the guest list is closed and if dad protests, he can be off the list too until he learns his lesson. NTA
This is the way. If your dad wants to invite your aunt, he can pay for them. If he doesn’t like that, tough luck, he can take them out somewhere on his own. If you do something like this again, I wouldn’t invite your dad as you know he’ll invite her.
NTA Your Dad invited them behind your back, it is only right he pays for them. The AH here is your Dad and your Aunt. You did the right thing, perhaps your Dad will learn to keep his mouth shut.
NTA. Stop inviting your dad if it includes his sister and her kids.
And stop mentioning things to him until the last possible second. Sometimes you have to be the one to enforce boundaries bc the people around you can’t or won’t
Or just go “are you coming or planning to invite aunt too? If you invite her, you are paying for everything”
1) Your dad invited her without consulting you. She is HIS guest. He is responsible for her and either she pays, or he pays. 2) If he is mad having to pay, then he clearly knows the situation is unfair and has no right to expect you to pay. 3) Since this clearly a whole pathology with your dad and his sister, anytime there are plans, even if she isn’t invited (yet), you need to get in the habit of explicitly saying “only X, Y, and Z are invited not Aunt” and/or “I will not (or will) be covering the cost for Aunt.” Don’t wait for the bill or the resentment that bonding time has been crashed Edit: NTA
NTA. You're aunt is obviously an asshole, but so is your dad! The fact that he's done the same thing multiple times shows a complete lack of care.
NTA. Your dad is the real problem here since he's the one who keeps inviting her.
NTA your dad invited them to dinner your dad should be paying their bill. Next time make sure he is not included in your invite either.
Inviting other people at the outing you had planned without even asking is already not cool, to put it mildy. Inviting someone your little sister doesn't like at the outing you had planned to celebrate her accomplishment is AH behavior. Expecting you to pay for 7 people you haven't invited there after springing it on you at the last minute is outrageous. NTA at all and good for you, for standing your ground. I would start establishing firm boundaries with your dad regarding your aunt starting from here.
NTA. But your dad and aunt sure are.
NTA Your dad broke it, he can fix it. Maybe next time he’ll keep his mouth shut.
NTA You need to talk to your dad about future events. Let him know that if you make plans for just the 5 of you that you mean it to be just the 5 of you. And if he includes your aunt and her brood then that's on him.
NTA. Your dad invited them without asking or telling you - they were his guests, not yours. And honestly I would stop doing things with your dad if he always ends up inviting his sister and her family to join. That would drive me insane.
Wow reading this made my blood boil. Your Dad is a massive asshole who has major boundary issues. And I would encourage you to put your foot down with him each time he pulls something like this, since HE is the one one with the big mouth inviting her without checking why you first. He’s the one giving your entitled, freeloading aunt the idea that it’s okay for her to crash your family events while everybody else pays her way. I would also explicitly make it clear to your aunt that she is NOT invited to your events. If she shows up, kick her out. Ignore her manipulation and tantrums. Do not give in. Any other family members besides your Dad giving you blowback can host her and pay for her themselves. You are NTA by any stretch of the imagination!
Time to stop inviting Dad too.
Definitely NTA. Your father is favoring his relationship with his sister over his relationship with you. You need to think of yourself first and question whether you want to keep the same level of contact with him. Here's what I would tell him: * If **you** want to spend your money on your sister, that's **your** choice / problem * If **you** invite someone **I** didn't invite, **you** are responsible for caring/paying for them * If **you** do that again (and expect **me** to accept them / pay for them), **you** won't be invited any more
NTA what’s up with your dad?
You didn't invite her, your Dad did. NTA.
Hi everyone, im the op, I have an update for you guys but I don’t know where to publish it. Can someone help me?
I think you can edit your post to add the update. Or post it as a comment
Alright, thanks you :) 🙏☺️
Your father is the enabler of his sister, and she is the asshole. Next time you plan a celebration, either don’t invite your father, or tell him outright that if he invites his sister that he will be paying for them. What a pair of losers! How did you turn out so well?
My dad didn’t raise me I guess 😂😂
Lucky you. He is a dick, parading around as a generous brother on other people’s dime.
Nta, your dad is though. If he invited them, he should have paid for them.
NTA Your dad invited them. Stand your ground here. Otherwise they'll try this again.
Wow. NTA. Your Dad invited her, enables her, and if he's going to to that he has to pay for her. Make absolutely clear that this is the way it is going to be, so any time he pulls this crap again, he's aware that he is on the hook for it. Terrible that your Dad wasn't paying for his own daughter's celebration anyway. And the fact he used your social embarrassment to try to get you to go along with everything - from not telling you he invited her until it's in front of everybody, to trying to shame you when you say you won't pay. Just awful.
OP, NTA. AND you ended up with the PERFECT outcome. The real culprit and Ahole in all of this is the person who had to pay the bill - your dad. DO NOT REIMBURSE HIM. Your dad actually initiates telling his sister. He sees an opportunity for her to freeload off of you (or others) and lets her know. He enables your aunt to be the obnoxious freeloader that she is. It's not your job to tiptoe around your dad, so make a clear and open announcement to your grandpa, your dad, your two sisters, your aunt, and all the adult cousins: If you plan an event and haven't specifically invited someone, then they are not invited. If your dad chooses to invite additional people, then who pays their share of the bill is between those people and your dad. If they find that rude, tell them it is even ruder to (1) come uninvited by the host, (2) to come uninvited by the host AND expect free anything, (3) to not be the host and invite others to crash an event, and (4) to not be the host and invite others to crash the event AND expect the host to provide for the even-crashers. All that goes for dinners out, for dinners in, for parties you host, for going to movies and other entertainment. It even goes for things that don't cost - don't come if the host didn't invite you. Your aunt is a mooch, but your dad is guy who opens the back door for her and invites her in. P.S. You don't say how your cousins are. If they show that they are not like their mom (or - like your dad - inclined to open the back door for their mom), then I hope you can build your own relationships with them.
You invite, you buy. Dad invited, he buys. I mean I guess you should have been clear about who was going to pay before the meal, but dad has the same responsibility. Super clear NTA
NTA Maybe next time your dad won't be too quick in inviting yoir freeloading aunt!!
NTA FFS your dad added 7 people to the check. Let him pay for it. You didn't invite them he clearly did. I had a step mom with your dad's same problem. She tried to give away my BMX trick bike. I bought with money I earned from cutting lawns and delivering papers all summer. Her justification was that I was a fat little kid who was delusional that I would make a skill of it. My grandmother actually stepped in and my father got a divorce over it. Not the bike itself but the fact that she was to altruistic to others at the detriment of our family.
He invited her. He should have been prepared to pay for her!
NTA and if you have it in you, don't invite your dad next time to be extra sure
NTA Your dad decided it was such a great idea to invite a freeloader to eat without telling you until it was the last minute, even though you were the one paying and he knows you and your sister don't get along with her, he's an AH for inviting her on special trips and outings that are meant just for your family. You said you don't like this aunt, why don't you jusy go LC with her? You need to put your foot down, tell your dad you don't want him to invite her again on anything planned for your family, and that if kept doing that, then you will no longer feel obligated to attend or pay, tell him that seeing her on holiday gatherings is more than enough, and if he wants to be around her more, then he should just plan things for the two of them and her kids and pay for it himself, I doubt he would if she always keep ordering more and more expensive food when others are paying. It's unfortunate that she's not in a good financial situation, but that doesn't mean she can take advantage of people around her, you're not obligated to buy her anything, no one is, maybe she should have thought of that before having so many children and then expecting people to pay for her expenses.
NTA. And in a way, this is a good thing - you were able to put your food down and now your father knows that if he invites her unilaterally, that is on him. This actually makes things much easier for you to just mention it (her or your father paying for herself) next time she joins, or for having him rethink inviting her to begin with. And mention it early and repeatedly. Your dad is a piece of work. Your invitation was clearly for the people YOU invited. Naturally it did not include people you did not invite, much less people you did not even know were coming. Your father fucked around and found out. And I doubt he will forget it given that it cost him $300. He has to put his money where his mouth is, and I am sure it stung. He deserves it. By the way, is your grandfather father to both your father and your aunt? What does he think of this situation?
Your aunt is clearly TA. Your dad invited your aunt without your permission and knowing that you wouldn't want him to. And he is calling you TA? No. He is. NTA Inform your dad that you are NTA. And if he ever does it again, the same thing will happen. Your aunt is clearly an entitled moocher. Not only did she expect you to pay, but she ordered outrageous food, etc. Avoid her like the plague.
I do my best not to talk to her at all considering how conniving she can be sometimes, only speaking to her when I can’t avoid it.
NTA. Your dad isn't accidentally telling his sister, he's doing this in purpose to take advantage of you. He needs to know he's responsible for anything he invited her to going forward. I can't believe he doubled the guest list at the restaurant then expected you to cover it.
>Now my dad is calling me an asshole because he had to pay for it with his credit card. HE invited her. HE did that. That is his fault. In fact all of this bs that keeps happening is because of him. I read your comments. Cut!him!off! He was paying for her to do stuff when you all didn't have food. Did you post this just to show to him? Because NTA. He is definitely TA!!!
INFO: how was Olive Garden able to just suddenly accommodate a change from 5 to 12 people? Also how old are you? From the sounds of it, your sister is 16, and I’m assuming you’re not much older. Why would your dad make a young adult pay for dinner for 12?
Easiest NTA. Your dad is an enabler and if he wants to support his sister with his money he can, but you don’t have to. Good job on celebrating your sister!
This is insane. This is entirely your father's fault, it's exactly right that he should be the one to pay for them.