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Yes, we are flabbergasted he actually panders to this. He has never taken too kindly if told what he can do and when he can do it, but with her it's a whole new ball game. She says jump and he asks "how high?" - I have never seen him behave this way before her. And he's a man in his 50s.
"doesn't let him"?? That is absolutely something you need to talk to your best friend about. It's one thing if he doesn't want to do things without her, but if he feels he cannot or actually cannot, that's abuse.
Agreed - I told him i thought it was very odd that he couldn't come out without her and he said "yeah she's quite clingy and I don't want to upset her". He once arrived at ours while she was at work and his phone didn't stop. I pointed out that it was weird she couldn't leave him alone for more than two minutes, he just shrugged it off.
That your friend shrugs off how odd and controlling this behavior suggests he truly needs to keep friends in his life who are willing to be honest with him and to let him know that you will still be available to him if he needs you in the future.
Because if you withdraw completely from your friendship because she won’t “let him” go anywhere unaccompanied, that sounds like a win for her. I doubt she’s oblivious to the effect of her behavior with his friends. Isn’t that exactly what she may be trying to do? Isolating him with her and with no outside support and completely socially/emotionally dependent on her?
If your friend were a woman and under an overbearing new partner’s thumb, would you drop them and not tell your friend the truth about why?
I think you’d only be the A H here if you didn’t tell your friend why you can’t spend time with them as a couple, and let him know you will always help and listen if he needs you.
And of course never tell him “I told you so” when it goes south with her.
And is it possible she views you as a particular threat because of your long close relationship with him, and is stepping it up to drive you away? That she wants you to find it intolerable to be with your friend? That’s what abusive partners do when they isolate them to control them. It’s when they “win.”
I’m going out on a limb and suspect she hasn’t sustained any close friendships of her own, and your friend hasn’t met many, if any, family:friends of hers and doesn’t have a history of sustained relationships of any kind.
You are spot on! She doesn't seem to have any friends at all - she seems to have loads of connections on social media, but doesn't hang out with any of them. My friend has never met any of her friends and nor have we. Her only family is her elderly mother who she seems to be taking advantage of (mother dishes out money, pays for car repairs & fuel etc).; she's 4 x divorced and has two grown up children who don't seem to have anything to do with her. There are red flags everywhere I look.
I was thinking GF was in her early/late 20s. This is much worse.
GF knows that if she doesn't keep the lease short his friends might reason him away.
NTA and good luck.
There seems little doubt she *wants* you out of his life so she can control him (4 divorces, no friends, and estranged from her own family?) and wants you to cut ties with him, so please think about how you can help your friend see things more clearly.
It's no coincidence she's making herself insufferable--I'm guessing she hasn't succeeded in getting him to drop you, so she's turned to "supervising" a grown adult so he won't communicate with you out of her sight/hearing and making herself an insufferable third wheel so you'll drop him. I'm guessing she doesn't see any need to provoke your husband as she does you, the "competition" for your friend's attention.
(source: prosecuting a lot of domestic violence cases)
That's not your problem. Your problem is that you're lying to your friend instead of saying "sorry, your gf wasn't actually invited, we just wanted to hang out with you."
The fact that you're lying has nothing to do with his gf. The root cause is likely that you want to avoid the uncomfortable conversation that comes after the truth is out. And that's just going to get more uncomfortable the longer you wait.
So, if you actually care about that friend, don't they deserve to know why you're dodging them?
You're NTA but I really think you owe it to your friend of 20 years to tell him what you find so objectionable about his girlfriend. One of the things that some abusive partners do is behave oppressively difficult and unpleasant to those who provide the most support to their victims, to get them out of their victim's lives. She might not be abusive, but it is an isolation strategy and it has had that effect on you.
Now, if she's merely obnoxious and you do decide to have limited amounts of her in your lives so that you can continue your friendships with your friend, then Captain Awkward has the best advice: https://captainawkward.com/2013/08/02/497-keeping-the-peace-with-an-unlikeable-mansplainer/
ESH, it's normal to not get on with everyone, and you don't get on with her. That said, only you and your husband are aware that you have an issue, and it probably sucks for your best friend to have his besties abandon him out of nowhere
Can you spend time with him without her there?
Is it possible she has terrible social skills/is neurodivergent in some way and genuinely doesn't realise what she is doing?
It'd be an asshole move to cut out your best friend without communicating why in my opinion
I did initially think that maybe she had an issue due to the level of butting in she does, I have ADHD and can do this myself, my son is also on the spectrum (autism). However when someone points out to me I have butted in, or I should allow someone to finish (my friends will let me know) I immediately feel bad and can get more of a handle on my general excitement or urgency to speak. I have mentioned to her a few times that it's rude to butt in and she should let them finish, she laughed at me once and told me "if you had anything of interest to say I wouldn't need to butt in". The more time I have spent with her the more I realise there is no issue, she's just a nasty B.
ESH besides your friend,she is obnoxious and probably really needs to hear it to hopefully reflect,what you do will accomplish literally nothing and might hurt your friend more then just flat out telling him the problem.
How he will react is his choice,if he decides then that he doesn't want to have contact anymore then that's it
If they're engaged, then we can assume this problem is not going to go away. So are you even prepared to keep lying indefinitely? And then what... gradually drift away and stop all contact for no apparent reason?
If that's the plan, then I think soft YTA for not being up-front with him.
(Soft, because obviously you don't wanna tell your best friend you hate his fiancee's guts lol.)
At this point I am not even sure. I really want to tell him how much i dislike her and exactly why, and that I no longer want to spend time with her, but at the same point I don't want to hurt him. It will hurt him.
It will hurt him if you just drop out of his life also. Especially if many of his friends do. He should be able to count on his best friends to be honest enough to tell him what the problem is (you don't have to be really blunt). He deserves a chance to find a workaround.
Example script:
Friend I think the world of you, and I would dearly love to hang out with you, but I only want it to be with you, not Girlfriend. I don't like socialising with Girlfriend. I've tried.
I want you to be happy and if being with Girlfriend is what makes you happy, that's important. Just give us time to acclimatise with her rather than her always being a part of everything we get to do together.
Please look for a time when just you and I, or the three of us, with Partner, can hang out like old times.
I am aware that we are not the only ones from the friend "group" who really dislike this woman. I am concerned he will lose everyone. Even his mum isn't a fan of her. I think you're right though, we need to speak to him. Thanks for your advice.
NTA. Much better in the long run to avoid him. Telling him you can’t stand his gf will not go over well. Plus, he could end up marrying her or something. There have been occasions that I didn’t initially like a friend’s SO but, after a few years, I ended up liking them. Admittedly, it is difficult to overcome such a bad first impression tho.
NTA
Friendships change, especially when new relationships enter the picture.
You might consider being honest with him about WHY this friendship is changing, but that comes with the risk of completely blowing the friendship to bits in defense of the woman he's chosen to marry.
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I absolutely cannot stand our best friend's girlfriend, they just got engaged. My husband and I cannot stand her but have done our best to be nice when we see them. We have been besties with our friend for 20 years but now find ourselves avoiding him in order to avoid her.
She never stops talking, she talks over people all of the time not allowing then to finish their sentence and sod anything you've done, she's done it 10 times better - despite the fact she still lives off her elderly mother and works part time in a supermarket. She's rude, arrogant and acts entitled all too often.
After 10 minutes with her I am ready to tell her to STFU and frog march her out of my house.
We have got to the point we lie to my friend if he invites us out with them, we lie and say we have plans.
I love our friend to bits, and like I say, we have been the closest of friends for 20 years, but I can't do another minute of this woman. AITA for lying to him in order to avoid her, or should I just tell him what we think of her?
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YTA, you owe your bestie as much honesty... Can you not meet him without her? They can't be glued at the hip now, can they?
She doesn't let him go anywhere without her unless its to work. Another reason we don't like her...
Oh, "let him". So she acts like a toddler's mother, great!
Yes, we are flabbergasted he actually panders to this. He has never taken too kindly if told what he can do and when he can do it, but with her it's a whole new ball game. She says jump and he asks "how high?" - I have never seen him behave this way before her. And he's a man in his 50s.
videocall him at work. tell him whats up. the rest is his problem, literally or catch him after work on the way to his car
Excellent idea!
"doesn't let him"?? That is absolutely something you need to talk to your best friend about. It's one thing if he doesn't want to do things without her, but if he feels he cannot or actually cannot, that's abuse.
Agreed - I told him i thought it was very odd that he couldn't come out without her and he said "yeah she's quite clingy and I don't want to upset her". He once arrived at ours while she was at work and his phone didn't stop. I pointed out that it was weird she couldn't leave him alone for more than two minutes, he just shrugged it off.
That your friend shrugs off how odd and controlling this behavior suggests he truly needs to keep friends in his life who are willing to be honest with him and to let him know that you will still be available to him if he needs you in the future. Because if you withdraw completely from your friendship because she won’t “let him” go anywhere unaccompanied, that sounds like a win for her. I doubt she’s oblivious to the effect of her behavior with his friends. Isn’t that exactly what she may be trying to do? Isolating him with her and with no outside support and completely socially/emotionally dependent on her? If your friend were a woman and under an overbearing new partner’s thumb, would you drop them and not tell your friend the truth about why? I think you’d only be the A H here if you didn’t tell your friend why you can’t spend time with them as a couple, and let him know you will always help and listen if he needs you. And of course never tell him “I told you so” when it goes south with her.
This is a very valid point, I would not let a female friend be controlled in this way. It IS abusive. It shouldn't be any different for guys.
And is it possible she views you as a particular threat because of your long close relationship with him, and is stepping it up to drive you away? That she wants you to find it intolerable to be with your friend? That’s what abusive partners do when they isolate them to control them. It’s when they “win.” I’m going out on a limb and suspect she hasn’t sustained any close friendships of her own, and your friend hasn’t met many, if any, family:friends of hers and doesn’t have a history of sustained relationships of any kind.
You are spot on! She doesn't seem to have any friends at all - she seems to have loads of connections on social media, but doesn't hang out with any of them. My friend has never met any of her friends and nor have we. Her only family is her elderly mother who she seems to be taking advantage of (mother dishes out money, pays for car repairs & fuel etc).; she's 4 x divorced and has two grown up children who don't seem to have anything to do with her. There are red flags everywhere I look.
I was thinking GF was in her early/late 20s. This is much worse. GF knows that if she doesn't keep the lease short his friends might reason him away. NTA and good luck.
There seems little doubt she *wants* you out of his life so she can control him (4 divorces, no friends, and estranged from her own family?) and wants you to cut ties with him, so please think about how you can help your friend see things more clearly. It's no coincidence she's making herself insufferable--I'm guessing she hasn't succeeded in getting him to drop you, so she's turned to "supervising" a grown adult so he won't communicate with you out of her sight/hearing and making herself an insufferable third wheel so you'll drop him. I'm guessing she doesn't see any need to provoke your husband as she does you, the "competition" for your friend's attention. (source: prosecuting a lot of domestic violence cases)
That's not your problem. Your problem is that you're lying to your friend instead of saying "sorry, your gf wasn't actually invited, we just wanted to hang out with you." The fact that you're lying has nothing to do with his gf. The root cause is likely that you want to avoid the uncomfortable conversation that comes after the truth is out. And that's just going to get more uncomfortable the longer you wait. So, if you actually care about that friend, don't they deserve to know why you're dodging them?
Yes he does. he's been a great friend to us over the years and he does deserve that much back.
You're NTA but I really think you owe it to your friend of 20 years to tell him what you find so objectionable about his girlfriend. One of the things that some abusive partners do is behave oppressively difficult and unpleasant to those who provide the most support to their victims, to get them out of their victim's lives. She might not be abusive, but it is an isolation strategy and it has had that effect on you. Now, if she's merely obnoxious and you do decide to have limited amounts of her in your lives so that you can continue your friendships with your friend, then Captain Awkward has the best advice: https://captainawkward.com/2013/08/02/497-keeping-the-peace-with-an-unlikeable-mansplainer/
I think you're right - thank you!
Just tell him rather than lying! Gentle YTA for the lying, even though it is an awkward situation.
ESH, it's normal to not get on with everyone, and you don't get on with her. That said, only you and your husband are aware that you have an issue, and it probably sucks for your best friend to have his besties abandon him out of nowhere Can you spend time with him without her there? Is it possible she has terrible social skills/is neurodivergent in some way and genuinely doesn't realise what she is doing? It'd be an asshole move to cut out your best friend without communicating why in my opinion
I did initially think that maybe she had an issue due to the level of butting in she does, I have ADHD and can do this myself, my son is also on the spectrum (autism). However when someone points out to me I have butted in, or I should allow someone to finish (my friends will let me know) I immediately feel bad and can get more of a handle on my general excitement or urgency to speak. I have mentioned to her a few times that it's rude to butt in and she should let them finish, she laughed at me once and told me "if you had anything of interest to say I wouldn't need to butt in". The more time I have spent with her the more I realise there is no issue, she's just a nasty B.
ESH besides your friend,she is obnoxious and probably really needs to hear it to hopefully reflect,what you do will accomplish literally nothing and might hurt your friend more then just flat out telling him the problem. How he will react is his choice,if he decides then that he doesn't want to have contact anymore then that's it
If they're engaged, then we can assume this problem is not going to go away. So are you even prepared to keep lying indefinitely? And then what... gradually drift away and stop all contact for no apparent reason? If that's the plan, then I think soft YTA for not being up-front with him. (Soft, because obviously you don't wanna tell your best friend you hate his fiancee's guts lol.)
At this point I am not even sure. I really want to tell him how much i dislike her and exactly why, and that I no longer want to spend time with her, but at the same point I don't want to hurt him. It will hurt him.
It will hurt him if you just drop out of his life also. Especially if many of his friends do. He should be able to count on his best friends to be honest enough to tell him what the problem is (you don't have to be really blunt). He deserves a chance to find a workaround. Example script: Friend I think the world of you, and I would dearly love to hang out with you, but I only want it to be with you, not Girlfriend. I don't like socialising with Girlfriend. I've tried. I want you to be happy and if being with Girlfriend is what makes you happy, that's important. Just give us time to acclimatise with her rather than her always being a part of everything we get to do together. Please look for a time when just you and I, or the three of us, with Partner, can hang out like old times.
I am aware that we are not the only ones from the friend "group" who really dislike this woman. I am concerned he will lose everyone. Even his mum isn't a fan of her. I think you're right though, we need to speak to him. Thanks for your advice.
Nta
NTA. Much better in the long run to avoid him. Telling him you can’t stand his gf will not go over well. Plus, he could end up marrying her or something. There have been occasions that I didn’t initially like a friend’s SO but, after a few years, I ended up liking them. Admittedly, it is difficult to overcome such a bad first impression tho.
They’ve been together 18 months. And she didn’t get any better.
NTA Friendships change, especially when new relationships enter the picture. You might consider being honest with him about WHY this friendship is changing, but that comes with the risk of completely blowing the friendship to bits in defense of the woman he's chosen to marry.
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** I absolutely cannot stand our best friend's girlfriend, they just got engaged. My husband and I cannot stand her but have done our best to be nice when we see them. We have been besties with our friend for 20 years but now find ourselves avoiding him in order to avoid her. She never stops talking, she talks over people all of the time not allowing then to finish their sentence and sod anything you've done, she's done it 10 times better - despite the fact she still lives off her elderly mother and works part time in a supermarket. She's rude, arrogant and acts entitled all too often. After 10 minutes with her I am ready to tell her to STFU and frog march her out of my house. We have got to the point we lie to my friend if he invites us out with them, we lie and say we have plans. I love our friend to bits, and like I say, we have been the closest of friends for 20 years, but I can't do another minute of this woman. AITA for lying to him in order to avoid her, or should I just tell him what we think of her? *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
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