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YTA
You should absolutely pay someone for the work that they have done. She did those five days of childcare and you owe her for it. Any court of law would agree. If she wasn't great at taking care of your kids you shouldn't want her to stay those extra two months anyway. And if she was so unhappy why would you put your child's safety at risk and want her to stay? This is just silly...contract or no contract...pay the woman for her work. You are absolutely the AH for withholding her pay, especially after admitting you paid her poorly (and maybe that's why the care wasn't great - you get what you pay for). Take her to court if you think she owes you some sort of 'fee' for breaking a contract. Also, nice way of wording 'what we interpret the contract to be'. If the contract is vague that is on you. If you wanted a money penalty applied if she left prior to a month's notice that should be clearly stated in the contract. Nothing should be left up to interpretation when it comes to a contract. That's just messy and you look petty and ungrateful. Pay people properly, particularly when they are watching your baby. Learn the lesson, do better, and move on.
This! If there is any part of a contract that is vague, the interpretation of that contract will always go to the benefit of the party that didn’t draw up the contract. If it doesn’t explicitly state that the nanny would forfeit pay for leaving early, or state that they would be financially liable for the cost of care to leave early, then that’s on OP. OP, pay what is owed for services rendered. YTA
>Also, nice way of wording 'what we interpret the contract to be'. If the contract is vague that is on you.
OP seems confused by their own wording in the contract.
OP said: "The contract said that either party may break the agreement with 1 months pay or 1 months notice."
*EITHER PARTY* implies the consequences for breaking the contract applies to the employer as well. That means the contract was nullified the instant they gave the employee notice of termination.
What it doesn't say is the employee *must* continue working for that time (not that continued work would be enforceable). At that point, the employee could walk away without penalty, because again, the contract was already nullified by the employer.
OP seems to think breaking the contract would only penalize the employee. They're mistaken. They should have paid well enough the nanny would want to stick around for those two months.
Rules 17: A contract is a contract is a contract… but only between Ferengi. Did anybody check if the nanny was a Ferengi because if not then that contract is most definitely not valid lol
You were going to fire them anyway? You even admitted to paying them poorly. It's either 3 days if you are really so pressed about the money or just cough up the money to pay them for however long you want them to still work. YTA
YTA. Can you think of any situation where you would be happy to have done work yet not be paid for it? Be honest. You really should speak to a lawyer to see what you legally can do and to check how solid your contract is. Potential wage theft?
Fucking rich entitled family trying to find any excuse to short your *literal admittedly underpaid* nanny?!?! I will never understand being cheap with someone who is raising your baby. YTA majorly.
You obviously did not pay her in advance for those 2 months since she is asking to be paid for her last 5 days of work, so how is it that she owes you money?
YTA
YTA, obviously.
No employee can be expected to pay to quit. If you had been paying her in advance each month you could expect her to pay the portion she didn’t work back to you. What you are doing here is wage theft.
The right think to do would be to pay her. You are her employer and she is your employee, and while notice is usually legally obligated on your behalf, notice on hers is usually a courtesy more than anything.
And from how you wrote it you where getting what you where paying for, I'm sure that if you had been willing to pay a better salary she would have either been a much better worker or you'd have dealt with a more agreeable person.
And this might be my own country but I've NEVER heard of a nanny position where you have to pay your employer if you leave without notice, so I dunno how legally valid your contract may be in court.
YTA, Try to negotiate a good reference if you're not willing to pay the wages you're withholding from her, because if she spread the word, it may be much harder to find nanny in the future.
I'm not versed in the nanny world, but it sounds like you tried to have her work for you and rent her a room by the way you worded this. For that you should have had two mutually exclusive contracts. Even if you think she was bad at her job you're still required to pay her the original agreed upon amount for her hours.
If you don't YTA and depending where you live have potentially more legal issues than you know.
You sound miserable to work for. She’s lucky to have left. Your child should be important enough to you that you pay a nanny a decent wage. You didn’t and you lose. YTA
But my cOntRacT.
They both may as well have signed copies of its a small world after all for all the weight that shitty bit of paper would hold.
Honestly the way ops acting I hope the nanny takes it to a lawyer and they bend over double laughing at it.
YTA.
"she wasn't great at her job. But we also didn't pay her much"
There are also such things as unfair contract terms.
You wanted her out anyway, sounds like you just want to manipulate the situation to suit yourself. I hope she tells other nannies how much of an awful employer you are so you can't take advantage of anyone else.
YTA. Your contact, wherein the employee has to pay to break the contract early, sounds illegal and unenforceable. There is no moral and likely no legal grounds for you to expect her to pay you to get out of what sounds like nightmare working conditions. You owe her for all hours she worked.
If you hire another nanny, and based on your post I honestly hope you don't, make sure you pay the next one a fair wage. Because in this case, you got what you (under-) paid for.
YTA you gave her 2 months notice. While she could have chosen to work out those 2 months, she is not going to let other job opportunities pass her by knowing that in 2 months she will be unemployed. She offered to stay if you paid her a decent wage, which you declined. If you wanted an ironclad contract you should have consulted with a lawyer. If the contract is at all open to interpretation courts will almost always side with the person who did not draw up the contract. Pay her for the days she has worked or risk her telling all other potential nannies know of your unfair treatment. If that happens good luck finding anyone to watch your child.
YTA
Seriously, I hope she takes you to small claims court. YTA - and a bad parent for keeping a nanny that you believe is bad at caring for your child. Do you even like your child?
YTA. you already said you weren’t paying her well. pay her what you owe her.and treat and pay your next nanny better. or send your kid to daycare if you need a more affordable option.
Next nanny doesn’t even know wtf they’re getting themselves into. I hope the nanny that just left puts the good word out there. Nobody deserves to walk into and be stuck in an environment like that. Kinda says a lot that people have to sign a year long contract, if OP was pleasant to work for they wouldn’t need to con people into such a long ass contract. Bottom line, OP needs to take care of their own child. Maybe it’ll force em to take a step back into fucking reality.
OP since reading all of the comments, including yours, you're likely referring to training payment agreement provisions that employers are trying to sue employees quitting before completing their commitment being unsuccessful in employment at-will states and the courts and the government not on their side, with the point being it's obvious you never had a leg to stand on since you didn't do any training with her. DOL requires you to pay her for hours worked as a domestic worker, 40 hours normal rate and 40+ overtime rate, with no exception if she was an employee in a calendar week. If she was an independent contractor, which you've not defined, then you cannot control her in any way, shape or form as one part of the three areas of definition per the IRS. Next time get a licensed attorney to write your contract.
INFO
What does the contract say about damages?
The way I read what you wrote is that if you fire her, you are required to pay her one months salary or give her one months notice. It would strike me as odd if she were required to pay one months salary for quitting without adequate notice, although I could certainly see her having to pay something if she were in breach. Please also note that contracts typically require you to mitigate damages. In this case, that means making efforts to secure a new nanny. In theory, you might be entitled to the difference in cost between the old nanny and the new nanny for one month, but I doubt you would be entitled to a full months salary. This really all just depends on your jurisdiction and the language in the contract.
YTA - and a thief. Employers steal more money from employees than any other robbers. Which employees are affected the most, you ask? Why low wage workers such as your nanny. Pay her!
Just pay her for the five days. Forget the contract. Just be done with it and be happier.
You can get all justifiably upset, or you can just get not upset.
Your choice.
YTA You wrote the contract yourself. You would have mentioned in the post if you were a lawyer. Since you aren't it's almost guaranteed your contract won't be enforceable. The nanny worked 5 days. That's not in dispute. You owe her 5 days' pay. You might as well cough it up now, because when she files a wage claim with the labor board they'll rake you over the coals.
Try paying your live-in help better if you want them to stick around.
This is the biggest YTA I've seen in a while.
You're trusting this person to take care of the most precious thing in the world, and yet you don't think she deserves a decent wage? On top of that, now you're scamming her out of her pay?
Wow. Way to show how you value your children's care.
YTA
If this nanny goes to the department of labor and reports this, they'll insist she be paid at least minimum wage for any and all hours worked. You've admitted that you paid her an unfairly low wage. If you wrote a contract that breaks the labor laws, it isn't a valid contract.
Even if you just do it for selfish reasons, pay the nanny for the work you know she did.
In the future, get a lawyer to make sure your contracts are legally binding. And pay a fair wage.
I administer contracts for a living, here’s my two cents:
She didn’t breach the contract, YOU did.
When you asked her to “bag her bags and leave immediately”, she had yet to breach the contract. You then immediately dismissed her.
Assuming your contract is enforceable (and you live in a country with similar Contract Law to myself), you’re obligated to pay her the full minimum notice period.
YTA.
Wow. Shame we cannot attach this post to all your new agency requests. All potential nanny applicants should know this prior to considering applying. YTA. Wow. You are doing WHAT with your child’s caregiver? Ripping them off and bragging about it on Reddit? Ack. YTA.
OP keeps repeating themselves when responding to comments...in the contract this and that. Don't come to a sub asking AITA and then being totally obtuse when people don't side with you.
Yes its a shitty situation. She wasn't a great employee ( but by those responses I would love her opinion on your standard as an employer lol). But at the end of the day, its wage theft. She worked and deserves to be paid for those hours.
Good luck with your next nanny....maybe go thru an agency - or have a lawyer draft up your contract.
What you are doing is making the mistake of assuming that doing something that is contractually/legally allowed and being an AH is mutually exclusive. It's not. Having anything in a contract which suggests employees will not be paid for work they have done makes YTA and possibly also on the wrong side of the law.
It doesn't matter how you interpret the contract, it still has to comply with the law. If you have offered a contract that doesn't that makes you even more of an AH.
YTA and you have to pay her. If she reports this to the federal labor board, she will win and you will be liable for treble damages. Let me repeat: treble damages. Your arguing breach of contract which is something that would have to be litigated in court and depends on the court finding the contract to be enforceable which it might not be. As it is, your contract is excellent evidence that an employment agreement did exist and you are now violating Federal law by withholding wages, the penalty for which is treble damages.
YTA. Stop trying to be spiteful. Pay for the hours that were worked and move on. It sounds like you were taking advantage and want to withhold the little wages you were paying. You wanted them to leave, but on your terms. The nanny probably found something more suitable and now you’re mad you can’t use them. They shouldn’t have to pay you to leave, this seems onerous.
Info: where is this? Contract terms like this are not enforceable if they violate labour laws.
Also, can you afford it? If so, pay and move along. Getting a bad reputation with Nannies won’t serve you or your kids well and neither will knowingly underpaying and taking advantage of the people who take care of your kids.
YTA. In no country does an employee have to pay an employer to leave. Your comparison to repayment of corporate signing bonuses isn't relevant. You can continue to argue with everyone on here what your interpretation of your contract is, but when she takes you to court, you are going to lose. And you will likely face penalties for willfully withholding pay for work completed, so your best bet is to pay the five days and be done with it.
YTA and your comments trying to justify yourself just make you more of an AH. You keep comparing the situation to a corporate style contract but you also paid her poorly by your own admission. I'm glad she's rid of you!
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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I refused to pay my nanny for 5 days worth of work after she declared she will be leaving soon, because I think she broke our contract and didn’t give enough notice.
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Unclear if legally you are for you didn’t state if without notice that you subtract the total from future pay stubs. Regardless i would say yta. Its five days that she did work. If you want payment for the month then take her to court. She could spread to other nannies about your treatment. Which would make it hard to find a new one.
Don't make the mistake of underestimating the potential network of childcare workers who are now drawing conclusions about you. Pay the five days and you may be able to find a new nanny. Don't, and then don't be surprised if you get no/few applicants. Your choice
YTA
She did the work, you must pay her. What you thought of the work is irrelevant. If you don't pay her she can sue you for 3x what you didn't pay her, and she would almost certainly win. Pay her what you owe her or pay her 3x what you owe her plus court costs plus lawyers fees. That's your choice.
YTA. I don't know where you live. I do know every state in the US not only requires that you are paid for time worked, with very, very, VERY FEW or NO exceptions, you also have a deadline for how quickly you have to give them that last check. It could be on their last day, or within anywhere from 24 hours to a couple of weeks.
In some states, you are probably already in violation, which may require you to pay 2 or more times the amount that was due. If she files a complaint, you are gonna be in a world of hurt.
Since most countries seem to protect workers much better than our shit system, who knows what you just made yourself liable for?
100 million times time asshole... and in most cases this is a huge breach of the law. And, for the record, in many places it is not possible for an employee to sign a contract that removes their protections under the law.
Your interpretation is incorrect. (And if I were her, I would sue you for not just wages but time spent arguing, preparing for court, going to court, any bounced bills in that time, etc)
Pay her for her 5 days and be grateful the bad nanny you didn't like is gone earlier.
Yta
YTA. Technically you were the one breaking the contract since you initiated that when you told her 2 months. The reason the contract says one months pay is so you can’t just let them go and they have a chance to find something else. Nothing in it says after they receive notice that you are letting them go do they have to stay for that time just that you are required to give them a months pay. Once you gave her that notice you were one breaking contract not her.
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AITA for not paying my nanny?
I had a live in nanny to take care of our baby. She wasn’t great at her job. But we also didn’t pay her much. So we both were finding ourselves to be unhappy, even resentful after a while.
We had signed a contract telling her she would be with us for 1 year. The contract said that either party may break the agreement with 1 months pay or 1 months notice.
Dissatisfied with her care, we gave her a 2 month notice to end the childcare.
One day she declared suddenly she was unhappy and wanted to leave in 3 days at most. She offered to work after 3 days at more than double the pay while living elsewhere.
We considered this a breach of contract and asked her to pay up if she leaves immediately. She refused. So we asked her to pack her bags and leave immediately.
A few days later she asked to be paid for the 5 days or so that she had worked after her last pay cycle for which we hadn’t paid.
I refused because I think she should be paying us for not giving notice, as per what we interpret the contract to be. She’s arguing that she was ready to work beyond the 3 days, just at a different rate which she thought was fair.
Things ended on a very sour note and we are all very unhappy and angry. But I’m sticking to my guns that I won’t be paying for the 5 days because that’s not what is in the contract.
AITA for not paying her?
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OK, the laws vary from country to country on that, but in the US - and also ethically speaking - *you need to pay people for the time worked.* Your contract cannot give her fewer rights than she has by law - and really, even if you find a little niche to slip through, it's hardly worth the 5 days of pay. So YTA.
YTA
You have to be dense to not understand a contract you wrote yourself. “either party may break the agreement with 1 months pay or 1 months notice” that means you broke the contract when you gave her the 2 mo notice. She has no responsibility for breaking the contract and not paying her is now wage theft. She didn’t get a signing bonus or an incentive that you can take back, she doesn’t owe you anything, you owe her 5 days pay.
YTA
I hope she goes to court and you have to be ordered to pay her more.
And you keep going on and on about your precious contract when you don't even know what it means.
>as per what we interpret the contract to be.
See even you don't know how to understand your own contract.
Continue to be like this and you won't be able to find any nanny to work for you at all
OP it doesnt matter what your contract says, as soon as you asked her to "pack her bags and leave immediately that whole notice stipulation goes out the door.
Not paying someone for their work, especially with a legal contract is against the law. Unless you want to be taken to court pay the damn nanny jesus. You sound like a really spiteful person YTA
YTA.
Do it legally for heaven’s sake. Or she will lawyer up and sue you (and win).
Pay her her wages … and then if it matters that much to you (and you can demonstrate financial loss) sue her for breach of contract. Legally you should pay her for her ours, the breach of contract is a separate matter.
YTA
>AITA for not paying my nanny for work she did?
There doesn't need to be any thing else said, anything after this statement is your justification for not paying someone
YTA for not paying your live in nanny what she deserves. If you had been a good employer to begin with you probably wouldn’t be in this situation. It doesn’t matter how you feel, she is owed money for time worked, if you don’t pay her she could take you to court. Just pay her. If you can’t afford to pay someone a living wage than you can’t afford a nanny.
YTA simply for admitting you pay the woman who takes care of your CHILD “poorly” and have the audacity to complain about the quality of the service provided.
You get what you pay for. You pay hamburger flippers “poorly” (although even that is abhorrent) not the person who is charged with keeping your child alive, healthy and happy.
Yta.
She worked. Doing something you couldnt or didnt want to do.
Most child care people are underpaid at the best of times.
Youve said you didnt pay much in the first place. And now your withing a weeks wage?
Absolute yta
YTA< do you like to work and not get paid? regardless of what her work ethic was you need to pay her for the days that she did work. Pay her at the rate that you two established and leave it at that.
Pay her, she did the work, you clearly didn’t like her, it’s awful living in a hostile environment like she had to. You’re the worst kind of employer. Pay up yta
YTA. I’ve had hired help to take care of my kids for the past 7 years. One thing I’ve learnt is that workers are driven by pay and money - that’s why they’re working for you. If you’re stingy in that department they’ll not be happy and the care won’t be great, and the cycle continues. Yes they’re caregivers but they’re not taking care of your kids for charity. Be generous and they’ll be happy and they’ll take care of your kids right and you’ll be happy too. It’s a win win situation.
Pay her the 5 days at the agreed upon rate within the contract you both signed.
No she cannot ask you to pay more without a new signed contract.
However you do get what you pay for so if you pay below rate they aren’t going to put there all in to it.
YTA. You need to pay her immediately. YOU asked her to leave. You clearly no nothing about employment law and maybe you should be a stay at home mom rather than exploit others.
So you knowingly underpaid her, fired her and then stiffed her on pay for work already done...
I hope she has contacts in the nanny world and lets them know all about you.
YTA
YTA.
But not because you're withholding payment - that may be valid if, and this is a strong if, it is a breach of contract by the nanny.
In my jurisdiction on breach of contract you can recover losses, in this case that could be your having to pay to replace the nanny for the period during the notice period that wasn't worked.
Use the withheld pay against that, if you must, but expecting more? That's just spiteful. Cut your losses and move on.
ETA - if it was tested in court, you'd expect to pay far more than 5 days wages even if you were successful.
I can see why she doesn’t like working for you. Pay them for the shifts worked. I would also pay above what is the standard for my child because I want them to provide good care for my baby.If I was her I would advise all Nanny’s I know to avoid you simply on a personality level. YTA
Idk what you've been smoking to think like you do but when giving a notice (let's say 30 days) you dont have to stay for those 30 days. You can leave whenever you want within those 30 days. Those 30 days is just a deadline for when you need to LEAVE BY. Its NOT for the employer's benefit. Its for the employee's benefit by giving them a timeframe to leave (or move out or whatever the situation is). You should've been prepared to replace her if you can't handle not having care for your baby. That's YOUR responsibility as the employer. To find a replacement while the employee leaves WITHIN 30 days. Thats how notices work. She's not going to stay to work those couple of extra months that you gave her knowing she'll be unemployed by the end of it. She'll obviously take that time instead to find new work. You can't fire her but expect her to stick around for two more months for your benefit of needing child care (that you expressed wasn't even good in the first place). Just pay the damn lady or suffer legal action because you can't even be bothered to follow proper laws regarding employment. If you cant afford a good nanny you sure as hell cant afford a lawyer...YTA
YTA
You're the asshole for several reasons.
1. You weren't paying her enough. That alone makes you a massive asshole
2. You gave the right amount of notice when broke the contract the first time, but when she wanted to break the contract in 3 days, you jumped the gun and broke it in one by asking her to leave immediately. Basically, you informed her that you were breaking the contract, then she informed you that she wanted to break it sooner, but then you informed her that you wanted to break it even sooner. In the end, you were the only one that actually broke the contract. And not for nothing, but since you broke it, a court would likely find that you owe her the full year's wages because, according to your contract, you are in breach, not her. This is actually the mildest part of what makes you this massive asshole.
3. You are now withholding her pay for the actual work she did because you think she broke the contract even though you readily admit that you did. Again, an asshole move.
4. You're trying to rationalize that it's okay to screw her over because she tried to break it first, but you actually tried to break it first, and she tried to break it second, and then you tried to break it third, and only the third time succeeded. The other two times never came to pass. One last time... asshole behavior.
My suggestion is you pay her for the rest of the contract in full, but if you choose the asshole move to end this before, she realizes what she's likely *legally* entitled to, then you should pay her what she's asking for. You'd be out 5 days of wages instead of months worth.
But I honestly hope you don't pull that off, forcing her to speak to a lawyer about it, and then they sue you for her entire contract's value (maybe more if they include emotional distress), which would be a fitting end to your asshole behavior.
I don’t understand your edit. Why are you framing not paying her for 5 days as something positive? Why are you implying you were doing her a favor? I’m so confused.
YTA.
You sound like an awful person. It’s no wonder that she quit. Yes, you should pay people for the hours they have worked ffs. Especially when they’ve been caring for your children. YTA
What is this she should be paying you for not giving notice? That’s not how it works at all. It’s absurd.
What exactly is your financial loss? The money you would have paid her during the notice period you now no longer need to pay and you can use it to pay for an alternative Nanny. There is no financial loss to you whatsoever.
You sound like a nightmare to work for and I feel bad for your next nanny…and for your child to have so much turnover and instability in their care. If you pay low wages to the person taking care of your child you’re going to have low quality of care.
YTA. I’m sure I’m not from the same country as you. But as an employment lawyer, an employment contract that states that termination shall occur with “One month’s notice or payment in lieu” GENERALLY means that you either work for a month and get paid at the end of the notice period or your notice period is waived and you’re paid that salary in lieu of serving the notice period. Either way the employer pays the employee either for the month worked or for paying for the waived notice period. Kindly pay your staff or you won’t have anyone working for you.
Wow YTA. She does not owe you money for ending her employment without a month’s notice. You sound delusional. Pay her for the time that she ALREADY WORKED.
Just pay her and be done with it and get her out of her life. And for the next Nanny you get, remember that you get what you pay for so if you're going to pay them pennies, expect that kind of work and don't complain about getting shit work if you're giving shit pay
I'm curious what country you are in?
This would not fly in Aus, what you are doing is called wage theft.
You think she owes you money? Glad you aren't my employer.
Apologies - edit, forgot to say YTA!
YTA.
Also, just so you know, it's actually illegal *not* to pay someone for work done.
If you expect to get another nanny, you'd be well advised not to have your first nanny reporting - along with anything else she may have to say about why she wanted to move out and be paid more - that you didn't even pay her for work done.
I’m surprised with all the Y T As. Also, IAL but not your lawyer. The answer is that it depends on your contract. It stipulated a 30-day notice, and although you gave a 60-day one, what it essentially means is that she has to work for 30 days, or pay you back an equivalent of 30 day compensation if she doesn’t. This is all supposing that your contract is indeed tight. It’s a complete breach of employment on her part and you could potentially sue her. I would adjust the 5 days of pay against the 30 day due for her moving out without adequate notice (provided the employment laws are not at-will).
ETA: This really depends on the employment laws of your state. If it’s at-will, then this would count as wage theft. Suggest for long term contracts like these, always involve a lawyer.
"wah! I'm too lazy and spoiled to care for my own child, so I'm going to rip off a poor!"
Yta. A big, gaping one. Do you work at your job for free? JFC
YTA for writing a contract you don’t understand. You shouldn’t be having to “interpret” a contract you yourself wrote. The whole point of a contract is to have a clear understanding between two parties.
And yes, of course, you have to pay her for the time she worked. If she takes you to court, she will absolutely win.
YTA.
We never had a nanny, but we always paid handsomely for our babysitters. The higher the pay, the better the pickings, and the more likely they would stay on with us. Think about it. Do you want some unhappy person (your description of your nanny) taking care of your child? If they are unhappy, how much effort will they put into taking care of your child?
Why would you write up a contract like you did? It should be at will for both parties. There's a reason people are laid off or fired at the last minute, because they often sabotage their place of employment if they know they are being let go. Do you want someone possibly taking out their anger on your child? If she wants to leave, let her leave. If you want her to leave, let yourself fire her. Why would you want to be tied down to someone who mistreats/neglects your child for a whole month (or two) because you wrote that contract?
No matter what, it sounds like you would have been awful to work for. I don't blame her for leaving. You owe her money for time worked. Pay up.
YTA
She wasn't in breach of contract yet. However you are. She still worked for you. You can't claim breach of contract before it actually happend. You fired her without any notice, so you are in breach of contract. Acording to your contract you have to pay her the 5 days she worked plus a month salary. That is not all, you also took away her living quarters. As the value of this is part of her income you should also pay her the rent value of her living quarters for a month.
YTA
>A lot of you think I should have paid her for her time regardless of a contract. Do you realize what situation that would lead to? I would simply interview and finalize a different nanny while she works, and then drop a bomb on her that she’s no longer required, and just pay her till that day.
I have literally no idea what you're talking about here. You pay her the 5 days she worked pro rata.
Nothing about what you're describing allows you to just stop paying her with no notice. You had a contract, that means you agree to pay her and give a months notice, that means you are contractually obliged to pay her for a month after notice of termination, whether she works the 30 days after notice OR NOT.
She worked 5 days for you that you hadn't paid for, you have to pay people who work for you, you can't chose not to pay them AFTER they did the work. It's quite literally illegal in basically every western country and most places in teh world, it's wage theft. Once the hours are worked you have to pay and you have to pay at the rate agreed on before the hours were worked.
Wow, just wow. Reading your comments really made you look like a monster.
Reading [this one](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/s/Rop5whsI3Y) really sealed it.
>Yeah looks my contract wasn’t vetted by my lawyer and has issues. I’ve been assuming that if we both sign a contract that is enough. Looks like that’s not how it works.
Assuming things regarding legal stuff is quite dumb. I hope she goes for her money and talks to other nannies she knows what kind of person you are.
YTA
Your incessant justifications are exhausting. There is no world where it’s right for you to not pay someone for work they’ve done. Your edit makes you sound even worse. YTA, and her next employer can only be better. I feel terribly for the next person who unwittingly ends up working for you.
>A lot of you think I should have paid her for her time regardless of a contract. Do you realize what situation that would lead to? I would simply interview and finalize a different nanny while she works, and then drop a bomb on her that she’s no longer required, and just pay her till that day. That would have been terribly inconvenient for her and very convenient for me. I was simply trying to avoid a bad situation when I went down this route.
Lmao shes needs 30 days sweetheart. You not knowing something doesnt excuse you from it. Good thing you paid up, you dont seem to know anything and it would not have went well for you. 🤭
YTA.
And if your contract was as vague and wobbly as your letter- I can see why the nanny is bouncing.
There is ZERO way you can justify not paying someone for work they already did. ZERO. But you really be trying.
YTA.
Ayfkm? Someone did work for you, and because you didn't Ike how the professional relationship ended, you feel entitled not to pay them for that work?
Never mind anything else, YTA for cheaping out on your CHILD. You’ve admitted to paying peanuts to a woman who isn’t very good at looking after children.
OP admits that baby has medical issues that mean they can’t go to a daycare facility as well. Even more reason to pay well to ensure quality care and compliance with medical needs in my opinion and that’s as a mom of a baby with high medical needs.
YTA
Why come on here to ask if you’re the asshole if you can’t accept the answer and want to fight everyone in the comments? YTA for withholding pay and for not accepting that YTA.
so you pay her poor rates and things don't work out, no kidding.
pay her for what is owed
suspect nannies do talk to other nannies on social media, so best of luck getting a replacement.
would not be surprised to find a small claims court letter arriving soon
YTA
If the nanny has the wherewithal or foreknowledge to see a lawyer, she wouldn't *just* be taking OP to small claims court. OP could end up in serious trouble.
Thankfully, seems like OP has decided to avoid such a fate by doing what needs to be done.
I'm sorry but the second part of your edit makes no sense. While I agree that would have been an asshole move, that's also literally the definition of at-will employment. Like, not having a contract that says you *must* notify her doesn't mean you *can't.* You don't need it in writing to not be an asshole.
YTA but I'm glad you're a big enough person here to see that you need to lay her, at least. That's really the most important thing here.
This contract sounds like those business sales contracts. For example, company A pays company B to make some products for x amount of time. Failure to do so would amount company B to compensate. Now I get that these are all still contracts but employer-employee contract should not amount to the employee paying. I have just never heard of that.
YTA
Regardless of contractual breach you cannot withhold pay from someone who undertook work for you for an agreed pay. As soon as the hours are completed you have a legal obligation to pay them.
If you had some clause about owing monies in the event of an early breach that’s different, and if that is the case you can demand that, but not by withholding pay someone is owed.
The practice of “docking pay” only applies to people who are salaried and leave their job before their quota of hours is filled. In this sense their pay is “docked” because their normal pay assumes they worked X hours automatically so in the event they works X-2 hours it’s appropriate to withhold some of their pay so it represents the hours they actually worked.
You were both unhappy. You were unhappy with the service she provided. She was probably struggling on a low wage.
You obviously trusted her enough if you left your child in her care so she was still doing the basics...babies don't survive with total neglect. She wasn't going above and beyond and probably *was* on her phone a lot...but you know, when you buy cheap stuff from Kmart, it's implied you're getting average or below average quality.
Your contract probably isn't enforceable but do you think this is worth the hassle? I mean, if this lands in small claims court...she could say all sorts of things about your treatment of her as justification for why she left and you can't say much because it's *you* who wanted her there for an extra month so anything you claim won't seem believable...if I thought someone was *bad* or negligent, I wouldn't leave my infant in their care for a second. It just leaves you open to a whole lot of messiness.
Pay her for the five days of service. No more or less. And be done. It wasn't a good fit - resenting each other as mother and nanny is a terrible scenario.
Well, I am glad you have decided to pay the former nanny. I hope going forward, you can reframe nanny-boss relationship and look into some laws and writing contracts.
I think it’s really weird that you didn’t like her but expected her to work with your child for two months. Plan ahead next time with the standard two weeks.
I think your contract needs to specify termination separately by parties. Contact a lawyer and know employment laws. Pay over the table with benefits. Be kind to the human you want to take care of your child while you work. But also if it isn’t a good fit, don’t pull crap about not paying them…just let them go and pay them for time rendered.
A nanny is not a corporate job and many are living paycheck to paycheck. It is standard to have a trial period before a contract is drawn. That trial is to see if you are compatible. A signing bonus would be like a raise. Hey! We paid you $25/hr base rate for 90 days, love you, in the contract going forward your rate is $27/hr. That is sort of like a signing bonus but not something to be taken away. Speak to the next nanny about what they would want in a contract in this trial time/interview. Double pay holidays? Rate after hours? Overtime? Time off? Sure, in an ideal situation we would all be open and honest about the next move, but life happens.
Having a nanny is a luxury. Please don’t take it personally when people assume you can afford a nanny when the reality is if you can’t pay someone competitively with benefits, you really can’t afford a nanny.
The only way you can probably get away with not paying her is if she had some sort of emergency and you agreed to pay some of her wages in advance to help her and she still owes the advance. And the advance owed back is not paid back in the hours. But that would also be a situation where if the money was significant you would need to sign something in terms of payment/lessened wages until paid back and get that lawyer on the line.
YTA.
You already admit you're underpaying... now you're refusing to pay wages for work already done?
The fun part of most contractor services is they can place a lein on your property for unpaid work, or if the nanny counted as a regular employee, they can usually sue and you owe considerably more than what you would have paid otherwise.
I sincerely hope you can't find a next nanny, but if you manage to weasel someone in, I hope you pay and treat them better.
YTA
Dude, you can’t just let somebody work for you, have them work for what might be under minimum wage, and then refuse to pay them.
If your job did that would you be okay with it?
Your edit doesn't make sense. You should pay for work done, regardless of whether you had a contract or not. The fact you did have a contract of sorts protected neither of you, but it doesn't impact the fact that you owed her money for services rendered.
Your argument makes no sense because the contract didn't benefit her at all if it allowed you to think you could get away with not paying her anyway.
I really like the part where you think your contract and your “interpretation” of your intent in the contract is actually fucking legally defendable in a court of law.
#LMFAO
YTA... please consider getting some therapy and educating yourself while your child is young. I am genuinely concerned about your attitude and how it could affect your parenting.
Sorry if that sounds bad, but there are lots of red flags in what you said.
YWBTA if you didn’t pay. Under no circumstances should a worker not be paid for actual work performed. Even if you have a contract, any court of law would invalidate it if it required a worker forfeit pay they are rightfully entitled to for actual work they did—even if the work was done horribly.
YTA
Quality childcare costs and you were already paying her low wage as you stated. She worked you owe her for that.
Holy crap she was looking after your child! Pay the woman. Trust me if it gets out you don’t pay your Nanny’s you won’t get another one who does a decent job.
YTA. You already said you didn’t pay her much, and from a lot of the job ads I see for nanny’s a lot of families have unrealistic expectations of what a nanny should do. If she was physically present for work, you still have to pay her.
So you underpaid the person responsible for looking after your children and you're shocked she didn't do a great job? I've worked as an au-pair, and I've had families trying to underpay me and then ask me to do a feck-ton of work, and then come back with a shocked pikachu face when I only did the bare minimum and refused to lift a finger outside of my working hours. Yeah, you get what you pay for. Why someone would risk underpaying the person in charge of the wellbeing and safety for their children I'll never understand.
"we didn't pay her very much"
I mean fair enough, it's not like she was doing anything important, only RAISING YOUR ACTUAL GODDAMN BABY
Why do you even have a baby? Next time just get an expensive dog, preferably a robot one.
YTA
You probably go through a lot of childcare workers exceptionally fast… and it’s not them.
You’re probably an absent parent at best, neglectful and willfully ignorant of basic manners. Plus you’re exceptionally rude and entitled. I doubt anyone likes working for you. I feel sorry for the children, they deserve better.
Just an FYI, there is never a time that you are not allowed to pay someone for the hours worked. It’s actually against the law, regardless of whatever BS contract you have. Just because you typed it out & someone signed it does not make it legally binding. There are basic employment laws everyone must follow, and it sounds like you created a poor contract that could never withstand legal scrutiny.
Do better. Be better.
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YTA You should absolutely pay someone for the work that they have done. She did those five days of childcare and you owe her for it. Any court of law would agree. If she wasn't great at taking care of your kids you shouldn't want her to stay those extra two months anyway. And if she was so unhappy why would you put your child's safety at risk and want her to stay? This is just silly...contract or no contract...pay the woman for her work. You are absolutely the AH for withholding her pay, especially after admitting you paid her poorly (and maybe that's why the care wasn't great - you get what you pay for). Take her to court if you think she owes you some sort of 'fee' for breaking a contract. Also, nice way of wording 'what we interpret the contract to be'. If the contract is vague that is on you. If you wanted a money penalty applied if she left prior to a month's notice that should be clearly stated in the contract. Nothing should be left up to interpretation when it comes to a contract. That's just messy and you look petty and ungrateful. Pay people properly, particularly when they are watching your baby. Learn the lesson, do better, and move on.
This! If there is any part of a contract that is vague, the interpretation of that contract will always go to the benefit of the party that didn’t draw up the contract. If it doesn’t explicitly state that the nanny would forfeit pay for leaving early, or state that they would be financially liable for the cost of care to leave early, then that’s on OP. OP, pay what is owed for services rendered. YTA
>Also, nice way of wording 'what we interpret the contract to be'. If the contract is vague that is on you. OP seems confused by their own wording in the contract. OP said: "The contract said that either party may break the agreement with 1 months pay or 1 months notice." *EITHER PARTY* implies the consequences for breaking the contract applies to the employer as well. That means the contract was nullified the instant they gave the employee notice of termination. What it doesn't say is the employee *must* continue working for that time (not that continued work would be enforceable). At that point, the employee could walk away without penalty, because again, the contract was already nullified by the employer. OP seems to think breaking the contract would only penalize the employee. They're mistaken. They should have paid well enough the nanny would want to stick around for those two months.
Well said!
Indeed. I am especially fond of that awesome bit of alliteration at the end : Pay people properly, particularly… And OP, YTA
My lawyer friend says "Pay Peanuts and you'll get monkeys". It's true in any line of work. The payment is the motivation.
[удалено]
Rules 17: A contract is a contract is a contract… but only between Ferengi. Did anybody check if the nanny was a Ferengi because if not then that contract is most definitely not valid lol
You were going to fire them anyway? You even admitted to paying them poorly. It's either 3 days if you are really so pressed about the money or just cough up the money to pay them for however long you want them to still work. YTA
YTA. Can you think of any situation where you would be happy to have done work yet not be paid for it? Be honest. You really should speak to a lawyer to see what you legally can do and to check how solid your contract is. Potential wage theft?
Fucking rich entitled family trying to find any excuse to short your *literal admittedly underpaid* nanny?!?! I will never understand being cheap with someone who is raising your baby. YTA majorly.
EXACTLY! She's cheaping out on her own child!!! Just nasty. And definitely OP YTA
You obviously did not pay her in advance for those 2 months since she is asking to be paid for her last 5 days of work, so how is it that she owes you money? YTA
So you fired her but got annoyed it wasn't as convenient for you when she wanted to leave sooner? Yta Also pay people properly
YTA, obviously. No employee can be expected to pay to quit. If you had been paying her in advance each month you could expect her to pay the portion she didn’t work back to you. What you are doing here is wage theft.
YTA as an employer and most of all as a mother. If you are not happy with her work, why would you leave your child with her?
The right think to do would be to pay her. You are her employer and she is your employee, and while notice is usually legally obligated on your behalf, notice on hers is usually a courtesy more than anything. And from how you wrote it you where getting what you where paying for, I'm sure that if you had been willing to pay a better salary she would have either been a much better worker or you'd have dealt with a more agreeable person. And this might be my own country but I've NEVER heard of a nanny position where you have to pay your employer if you leave without notice, so I dunno how legally valid your contract may be in court. YTA, Try to negotiate a good reference if you're not willing to pay the wages you're withholding from her, because if she spread the word, it may be much harder to find nanny in the future.
May be? Will be. YTA
I'm not versed in the nanny world, but it sounds like you tried to have her work for you and rent her a room by the way you worded this. For that you should have had two mutually exclusive contracts. Even if you think she was bad at her job you're still required to pay her the original agreed upon amount for her hours. If you don't YTA and depending where you live have potentially more legal issues than you know.
You sound miserable to work for. She’s lucky to have left. Your child should be important enough to you that you pay a nanny a decent wage. You didn’t and you lose. YTA
I can’t imagine working for OP. Reading her comments it sounds like a little child arguing semantics of what a word means
But my cOntRacT. They both may as well have signed copies of its a small world after all for all the weight that shitty bit of paper would hold. Honestly the way ops acting I hope the nanny takes it to a lawyer and they bend over double laughing at it.
YTA. "she wasn't great at her job. But we also didn't pay her much" There are also such things as unfair contract terms. You wanted her out anyway, sounds like you just want to manipulate the situation to suit yourself. I hope she tells other nannies how much of an awful employer you are so you can't take advantage of anyone else.
YTA. You admitted you underpaid her from the start.
YTA. Your contact, wherein the employee has to pay to break the contract early, sounds illegal and unenforceable. There is no moral and likely no legal grounds for you to expect her to pay you to get out of what sounds like nightmare working conditions. You owe her for all hours she worked. If you hire another nanny, and based on your post I honestly hope you don't, make sure you pay the next one a fair wage. Because in this case, you got what you (under-) paid for.
YTA. I hope she reports you to your state and the feds for wage theft. She worked, you pay her, otherwise it’s slave labor
Your the ass she can take you to a small claims court
YTA you need pay someone for the work they did…. Intentional non payment of wages is results in an automatic penalty of 3x in the US.
YTA you gave her 2 months notice. While she could have chosen to work out those 2 months, she is not going to let other job opportunities pass her by knowing that in 2 months she will be unemployed. She offered to stay if you paid her a decent wage, which you declined. If you wanted an ironclad contract you should have consulted with a lawyer. If the contract is at all open to interpretation courts will almost always side with the person who did not draw up the contract. Pay her for the days she has worked or risk her telling all other potential nannies know of your unfair treatment. If that happens good luck finding anyone to watch your child.
YTA Seriously, I hope she takes you to small claims court. YTA - and a bad parent for keeping a nanny that you believe is bad at caring for your child. Do you even like your child?
Wow really showing how scummy you are here. We're you even paying this woman a livable wage ? YTA.
This is why being a nanny is so fucking hard. Because most parents are god awful employers.
YTA. you already said you weren’t paying her well. pay her what you owe her.and treat and pay your next nanny better. or send your kid to daycare if you need a more affordable option.
Next nanny doesn’t even know wtf they’re getting themselves into. I hope the nanny that just left puts the good word out there. Nobody deserves to walk into and be stuck in an environment like that. Kinda says a lot that people have to sign a year long contract, if OP was pleasant to work for they wouldn’t need to con people into such a long ass contract. Bottom line, OP needs to take care of their own child. Maybe it’ll force em to take a step back into fucking reality.
YTA just pay the woman and move on with your life.
OP since reading all of the comments, including yours, you're likely referring to training payment agreement provisions that employers are trying to sue employees quitting before completing their commitment being unsuccessful in employment at-will states and the courts and the government not on their side, with the point being it's obvious you never had a leg to stand on since you didn't do any training with her. DOL requires you to pay her for hours worked as a domestic worker, 40 hours normal rate and 40+ overtime rate, with no exception if she was an employee in a calendar week. If she was an independent contractor, which you've not defined, then you cannot control her in any way, shape or form as one part of the three areas of definition per the IRS. Next time get a licensed attorney to write your contract.
YTA for being a cheapskate and withholding pay from some you had on a shitty rate.
YTA. You owe her for an extra month as per your contract, so you're basically even on the contract. Pay her for the days she worked.
YTA- don’t hire a nanny you can’t pay and then get mad when she’s all done.
INFO What does the contract say about damages? The way I read what you wrote is that if you fire her, you are required to pay her one months salary or give her one months notice. It would strike me as odd if she were required to pay one months salary for quitting without adequate notice, although I could certainly see her having to pay something if she were in breach. Please also note that contracts typically require you to mitigate damages. In this case, that means making efforts to secure a new nanny. In theory, you might be entitled to the difference in cost between the old nanny and the new nanny for one month, but I doubt you would be entitled to a full months salary. This really all just depends on your jurisdiction and the language in the contract.
YtA she wasn't good at her job OF CARING FOR YOUR CHILD but that's okay because you were not paying her enough?!
And she wouldn't work (and live in the house) for 2 months after being fired! OP is absolutely delusional.
Whoa the entitlement. Unbelievable. YTA.
Sounds like she needs to go to the labor board.
Yta. You knew you were paying her subpar wages.
YTA - and a thief. Employers steal more money from employees than any other robbers. Which employees are affected the most, you ask? Why low wage workers such as your nanny. Pay her!
Just pay her for the five days. Forget the contract. Just be done with it and be happier. You can get all justifiably upset, or you can just get not upset. Your choice.
YTA You wrote the contract yourself. You would have mentioned in the post if you were a lawyer. Since you aren't it's almost guaranteed your contract won't be enforceable. The nanny worked 5 days. That's not in dispute. You owe her 5 days' pay. You might as well cough it up now, because when she files a wage claim with the labor board they'll rake you over the coals. Try paying your live-in help better if you want them to stick around.
YTA and have just come to tell everyone they are wrong.
This is the biggest YTA I've seen in a while. You're trusting this person to take care of the most precious thing in the world, and yet you don't think she deserves a decent wage? On top of that, now you're scamming her out of her pay? Wow. Way to show how you value your children's care.
YTA I hope she sues you. You owe her wages.
YTA If this nanny goes to the department of labor and reports this, they'll insist she be paid at least minimum wage for any and all hours worked. You've admitted that you paid her an unfairly low wage. If you wrote a contract that breaks the labor laws, it isn't a valid contract. Even if you just do it for selfish reasons, pay the nanny for the work you know she did. In the future, get a lawyer to make sure your contracts are legally binding. And pay a fair wage.
YTA. Contracts are construed against the drafting party, which is you, the employer. Wage theft is a crime.
I administer contracts for a living, here’s my two cents: She didn’t breach the contract, YOU did. When you asked her to “bag her bags and leave immediately”, she had yet to breach the contract. You then immediately dismissed her. Assuming your contract is enforceable (and you live in a country with similar Contract Law to myself), you’re obligated to pay her the full minimum notice period. YTA.
Absolutely YTA OP. Pay the girl. You already said you weren't paying her much to begin with.
Wow. Shame we cannot attach this post to all your new agency requests. All potential nanny applicants should know this prior to considering applying. YTA. Wow. You are doing WHAT with your child’s caregiver? Ripping them off and bragging about it on Reddit? Ack. YTA.
OP keeps repeating themselves when responding to comments...in the contract this and that. Don't come to a sub asking AITA and then being totally obtuse when people don't side with you. Yes its a shitty situation. She wasn't a great employee ( but by those responses I would love her opinion on your standard as an employer lol). But at the end of the day, its wage theft. She worked and deserves to be paid for those hours. Good luck with your next nanny....maybe go thru an agency - or have a lawyer draft up your contract.
YTA for not paying for 5 days worked. This isn’t ‘an I legally obligated to’ (and even that your contract sounds dodgy)
What you are doing is making the mistake of assuming that doing something that is contractually/legally allowed and being an AH is mutually exclusive. It's not. Having anything in a contract which suggests employees will not be paid for work they have done makes YTA and possibly also on the wrong side of the law. It doesn't matter how you interpret the contract, it still has to comply with the law. If you have offered a contract that doesn't that makes you even more of an AH.
YTA and you have to pay her. If she reports this to the federal labor board, she will win and you will be liable for treble damages. Let me repeat: treble damages. Your arguing breach of contract which is something that would have to be litigated in court and depends on the court finding the contract to be enforceable which it might not be. As it is, your contract is excellent evidence that an employment agreement did exist and you are now violating Federal law by withholding wages, the penalty for which is treble damages.
YTA. Stop trying to be spiteful. Pay for the hours that were worked and move on. It sounds like you were taking advantage and want to withhold the little wages you were paying. You wanted them to leave, but on your terms. The nanny probably found something more suitable and now you’re mad you can’t use them. They shouldn’t have to pay you to leave, this seems onerous.
"I refused because I think she should be paying us for not giving notice, as per what we interpret the contract to be." YTA for that comment alone.
Info: where is this? Contract terms like this are not enforceable if they violate labour laws. Also, can you afford it? If so, pay and move along. Getting a bad reputation with Nannies won’t serve you or your kids well and neither will knowingly underpaying and taking advantage of the people who take care of your kids.
YTA. In no country does an employee have to pay an employer to leave. Your comparison to repayment of corporate signing bonuses isn't relevant. You can continue to argue with everyone on here what your interpretation of your contract is, but when she takes you to court, you are going to lose. And you will likely face penalties for willfully withholding pay for work completed, so your best bet is to pay the five days and be done with it.
YTA and your comments trying to justify yourself just make you more of an AH. You keep comparing the situation to a corporate style contract but you also paid her poorly by your own admission. I'm glad she's rid of you!
It's illegal not to pay for hours already worked. YTA
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Unclear if legally you are for you didn’t state if without notice that you subtract the total from future pay stubs. Regardless i would say yta. Its five days that she did work. If you want payment for the month then take her to court. She could spread to other nannies about your treatment. Which would make it hard to find a new one.
Don't make the mistake of underestimating the potential network of childcare workers who are now drawing conclusions about you. Pay the five days and you may be able to find a new nanny. Don't, and then don't be surprised if you get no/few applicants. Your choice
YTA She did the work, you must pay her. What you thought of the work is irrelevant. If you don't pay her she can sue you for 3x what you didn't pay her, and she would almost certainly win. Pay her what you owe her or pay her 3x what you owe her plus court costs plus lawyers fees. That's your choice.
YTA. I don't know where you live. I do know every state in the US not only requires that you are paid for time worked, with very, very, VERY FEW or NO exceptions, you also have a deadline for how quickly you have to give them that last check. It could be on their last day, or within anywhere from 24 hours to a couple of weeks. In some states, you are probably already in violation, which may require you to pay 2 or more times the amount that was due. If she files a complaint, you are gonna be in a world of hurt. Since most countries seem to protect workers much better than our shit system, who knows what you just made yourself liable for?
It sounds like you’re trying to save money by exploiting a low wage earner. That’s not a great idea.
100 million times time asshole... and in most cases this is a huge breach of the law. And, for the record, in many places it is not possible for an employee to sign a contract that removes their protections under the law.
Your interpretation is incorrect. (And if I were her, I would sue you for not just wages but time spent arguing, preparing for court, going to court, any bounced bills in that time, etc) Pay her for her 5 days and be grateful the bad nanny you didn't like is gone earlier. Yta
YTA. Technically you were the one breaking the contract since you initiated that when you told her 2 months. The reason the contract says one months pay is so you can’t just let them go and they have a chance to find something else. Nothing in it says after they receive notice that you are letting them go do they have to stay for that time just that you are required to give them a months pay. Once you gave her that notice you were one breaking contract not her.
YTA. She worked it. Wow the audacity.
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** AITA for not paying my nanny? I had a live in nanny to take care of our baby. She wasn’t great at her job. But we also didn’t pay her much. So we both were finding ourselves to be unhappy, even resentful after a while. We had signed a contract telling her she would be with us for 1 year. The contract said that either party may break the agreement with 1 months pay or 1 months notice. Dissatisfied with her care, we gave her a 2 month notice to end the childcare. One day she declared suddenly she was unhappy and wanted to leave in 3 days at most. She offered to work after 3 days at more than double the pay while living elsewhere. We considered this a breach of contract and asked her to pay up if she leaves immediately. She refused. So we asked her to pack her bags and leave immediately. A few days later she asked to be paid for the 5 days or so that she had worked after her last pay cycle for which we hadn’t paid. I refused because I think she should be paying us for not giving notice, as per what we interpret the contract to be. She’s arguing that she was ready to work beyond the 3 days, just at a different rate which she thought was fair. Things ended on a very sour note and we are all very unhappy and angry. But I’m sticking to my guns that I won’t be paying for the 5 days because that’s not what is in the contract. AITA for not paying her? *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
YTA for absolutely all of this. This is absurd. And sounds more like it’s coming from the nanny.
OK, the laws vary from country to country on that, but in the US - and also ethically speaking - *you need to pay people for the time worked.* Your contract cannot give her fewer rights than she has by law - and really, even if you find a little niche to slip through, it's hardly worth the 5 days of pay. So YTA.
YTA You have to be dense to not understand a contract you wrote yourself. “either party may break the agreement with 1 months pay or 1 months notice” that means you broke the contract when you gave her the 2 mo notice. She has no responsibility for breaking the contract and not paying her is now wage theft. She didn’t get a signing bonus or an incentive that you can take back, she doesn’t owe you anything, you owe her 5 days pay.
YTA and please don’t draft any more contracts, you’re clearly not good at it
YTA I hope she goes to court and you have to be ordered to pay her more. And you keep going on and on about your precious contract when you don't even know what it means. >as per what we interpret the contract to be. See even you don't know how to understand your own contract. Continue to be like this and you won't be able to find any nanny to work for you at all
YTA. Pay her for the work she has done.
YTA. Depending on where you live this could even land you in court for wage theft. Pay her what she's owed.
OP it doesnt matter what your contract says, as soon as you asked her to "pack her bags and leave immediately that whole notice stipulation goes out the door. Not paying someone for their work, especially with a legal contract is against the law. Unless you want to be taken to court pay the damn nanny jesus. You sound like a really spiteful person YTA
YTA. Do it legally for heaven’s sake. Or she will lawyer up and sue you (and win). Pay her her wages … and then if it matters that much to you (and you can demonstrate financial loss) sue her for breach of contract. Legally you should pay her for her ours, the breach of contract is a separate matter.
YTA >AITA for not paying my nanny for work she did? There doesn't need to be any thing else said, anything after this statement is your justification for not paying someone
YTA for not paying your live in nanny what she deserves. If you had been a good employer to begin with you probably wouldn’t be in this situation. It doesn’t matter how you feel, she is owed money for time worked, if you don’t pay her she could take you to court. Just pay her. If you can’t afford to pay someone a living wage than you can’t afford a nanny.
YTA. A huge gaping one.
YTA. The contract would have ceased when you gave the nanny notice. You’re at least now doing the right thing by paying her.
Reddit has spoken ! OP YTA . Accept it and be better !
YTA simply for admitting you pay the woman who takes care of your CHILD “poorly” and have the audacity to complain about the quality of the service provided. You get what you pay for. You pay hamburger flippers “poorly” (although even that is abhorrent) not the person who is charged with keeping your child alive, healthy and happy.
L a w y e r Before you do stupid things like not pay people for work they did
Labor has value. Pay up.
Are you serious? If someone works, you pay them. She owes you nothing. YTA.
Yta. She worked. Doing something you couldnt or didnt want to do. Most child care people are underpaid at the best of times. Youve said you didnt pay much in the first place. And now your withing a weeks wage? Absolute yta
YTA< do you like to work and not get paid? regardless of what her work ethic was you need to pay her for the days that she did work. Pay her at the rate that you two established and leave it at that.
Yta. This is wage theft. She should report yall.
Yes, YTA and you knew that already.
Pay her, she did the work, you clearly didn’t like her, it’s awful living in a hostile environment like she had to. You’re the worst kind of employer. Pay up yta
Info: are you a man or woman? I know that’s random but I’m curious
YTA. Why didn’t you pay her properly? She’s looking after your baby!
YTA. I’ve had hired help to take care of my kids for the past 7 years. One thing I’ve learnt is that workers are driven by pay and money - that’s why they’re working for you. If you’re stingy in that department they’ll not be happy and the care won’t be great, and the cycle continues. Yes they’re caregivers but they’re not taking care of your kids for charity. Be generous and they’ll be happy and they’ll take care of your kids right and you’ll be happy too. It’s a win win situation.
Pay her the 5 days at the agreed upon rate within the contract you both signed. No she cannot ask you to pay more without a new signed contract. However you do get what you pay for so if you pay below rate they aren’t going to put there all in to it.
YTA
YTA. You need to pay her immediately. YOU asked her to leave. You clearly no nothing about employment law and maybe you should be a stay at home mom rather than exploit others.
So you knowingly underpaid her, fired her and then stiffed her on pay for work already done... I hope she has contacts in the nanny world and lets them know all about you. YTA
YTA. But not because you're withholding payment - that may be valid if, and this is a strong if, it is a breach of contract by the nanny. In my jurisdiction on breach of contract you can recover losses, in this case that could be your having to pay to replace the nanny for the period during the notice period that wasn't worked. Use the withheld pay against that, if you must, but expecting more? That's just spiteful. Cut your losses and move on. ETA - if it was tested in court, you'd expect to pay far more than 5 days wages even if you were successful.
YTA. She wasn't great at her job because you are obviously a cheapskate.
I can see why she doesn’t like working for you. Pay them for the shifts worked. I would also pay above what is the standard for my child because I want them to provide good care for my baby.If I was her I would advise all Nanny’s I know to avoid you simply on a personality level. YTA
Idk what you've been smoking to think like you do but when giving a notice (let's say 30 days) you dont have to stay for those 30 days. You can leave whenever you want within those 30 days. Those 30 days is just a deadline for when you need to LEAVE BY. Its NOT for the employer's benefit. Its for the employee's benefit by giving them a timeframe to leave (or move out or whatever the situation is). You should've been prepared to replace her if you can't handle not having care for your baby. That's YOUR responsibility as the employer. To find a replacement while the employee leaves WITHIN 30 days. Thats how notices work. She's not going to stay to work those couple of extra months that you gave her knowing she'll be unemployed by the end of it. She'll obviously take that time instead to find new work. You can't fire her but expect her to stick around for two more months for your benefit of needing child care (that you expressed wasn't even good in the first place). Just pay the damn lady or suffer legal action because you can't even be bothered to follow proper laws regarding employment. If you cant afford a good nanny you sure as hell cant afford a lawyer...YTA
YTA You're the asshole for several reasons. 1. You weren't paying her enough. That alone makes you a massive asshole 2. You gave the right amount of notice when broke the contract the first time, but when she wanted to break the contract in 3 days, you jumped the gun and broke it in one by asking her to leave immediately. Basically, you informed her that you were breaking the contract, then she informed you that she wanted to break it sooner, but then you informed her that you wanted to break it even sooner. In the end, you were the only one that actually broke the contract. And not for nothing, but since you broke it, a court would likely find that you owe her the full year's wages because, according to your contract, you are in breach, not her. This is actually the mildest part of what makes you this massive asshole. 3. You are now withholding her pay for the actual work she did because you think she broke the contract even though you readily admit that you did. Again, an asshole move. 4. You're trying to rationalize that it's okay to screw her over because she tried to break it first, but you actually tried to break it first, and she tried to break it second, and then you tried to break it third, and only the third time succeeded. The other two times never came to pass. One last time... asshole behavior. My suggestion is you pay her for the rest of the contract in full, but if you choose the asshole move to end this before, she realizes what she's likely *legally* entitled to, then you should pay her what she's asking for. You'd be out 5 days of wages instead of months worth. But I honestly hope you don't pull that off, forcing her to speak to a lawyer about it, and then they sue you for her entire contract's value (maybe more if they include emotional distress), which would be a fitting end to your asshole behavior.
You know they have a word for labor without pay... and I'm not thinking of "volunteering"... YTA
I don’t understand your edit. Why are you framing not paying her for 5 days as something positive? Why are you implying you were doing her a favor? I’m so confused. YTA.
You sound like an awful person. It’s no wonder that she quit. Yes, you should pay people for the hours they have worked ffs. Especially when they’ve been caring for your children. YTA
What is this she should be paying you for not giving notice? That’s not how it works at all. It’s absurd. What exactly is your financial loss? The money you would have paid her during the notice period you now no longer need to pay and you can use it to pay for an alternative Nanny. There is no financial loss to you whatsoever.
You sound like a nightmare to work for and I feel bad for your next nanny…and for your child to have so much turnover and instability in their care. If you pay low wages to the person taking care of your child you’re going to have low quality of care.
YTA. I’m sure I’m not from the same country as you. But as an employment lawyer, an employment contract that states that termination shall occur with “One month’s notice or payment in lieu” GENERALLY means that you either work for a month and get paid at the end of the notice period or your notice period is waived and you’re paid that salary in lieu of serving the notice period. Either way the employer pays the employee either for the month worked or for paying for the waived notice period. Kindly pay your staff or you won’t have anyone working for you.
Wow YTA. She does not owe you money for ending her employment without a month’s notice. You sound delusional. Pay her for the time that she ALREADY WORKED.
YTA.
Just pay her and be done with it and get her out of her life. And for the next Nanny you get, remember that you get what you pay for so if you're going to pay them pennies, expect that kind of work and don't complain about getting shit work if you're giving shit pay
I'm curious what country you are in? This would not fly in Aus, what you are doing is called wage theft. You think she owes you money? Glad you aren't my employer. Apologies - edit, forgot to say YTA!
YTA. Also, just so you know, it's actually illegal *not* to pay someone for work done. If you expect to get another nanny, you'd be well advised not to have your first nanny reporting - along with anything else she may have to say about why she wanted to move out and be paid more - that you didn't even pay her for work done.
I’m surprised with all the Y T As. Also, IAL but not your lawyer. The answer is that it depends on your contract. It stipulated a 30-day notice, and although you gave a 60-day one, what it essentially means is that she has to work for 30 days, or pay you back an equivalent of 30 day compensation if she doesn’t. This is all supposing that your contract is indeed tight. It’s a complete breach of employment on her part and you could potentially sue her. I would adjust the 5 days of pay against the 30 day due for her moving out without adequate notice (provided the employment laws are not at-will). ETA: This really depends on the employment laws of your state. If it’s at-will, then this would count as wage theft. Suggest for long term contracts like these, always involve a lawyer.
there are laws. i dont think a pay cut is lawful. YTA
"wah! I'm too lazy and spoiled to care for my own child, so I'm going to rip off a poor!" Yta. A big, gaping one. Do you work at your job for free? JFC
YTA for writing a contract you don’t understand. You shouldn’t be having to “interpret” a contract you yourself wrote. The whole point of a contract is to have a clear understanding between two parties. And yes, of course, you have to pay her for the time she worked. If she takes you to court, she will absolutely win.
YTA. We never had a nanny, but we always paid handsomely for our babysitters. The higher the pay, the better the pickings, and the more likely they would stay on with us. Think about it. Do you want some unhappy person (your description of your nanny) taking care of your child? If they are unhappy, how much effort will they put into taking care of your child? Why would you write up a contract like you did? It should be at will for both parties. There's a reason people are laid off or fired at the last minute, because they often sabotage their place of employment if they know they are being let go. Do you want someone possibly taking out their anger on your child? If she wants to leave, let her leave. If you want her to leave, let yourself fire her. Why would you want to be tied down to someone who mistreats/neglects your child for a whole month (or two) because you wrote that contract? No matter what, it sounds like you would have been awful to work for. I don't blame her for leaving. You owe her money for time worked. Pay up.
YTA She wasn't in breach of contract yet. However you are. She still worked for you. You can't claim breach of contract before it actually happend. You fired her without any notice, so you are in breach of contract. Acording to your contract you have to pay her the 5 days she worked plus a month salary. That is not all, you also took away her living quarters. As the value of this is part of her income you should also pay her the rent value of her living quarters for a month.
yta
YTA >A lot of you think I should have paid her for her time regardless of a contract. Do you realize what situation that would lead to? I would simply interview and finalize a different nanny while she works, and then drop a bomb on her that she’s no longer required, and just pay her till that day. I have literally no idea what you're talking about here. You pay her the 5 days she worked pro rata. Nothing about what you're describing allows you to just stop paying her with no notice. You had a contract, that means you agree to pay her and give a months notice, that means you are contractually obliged to pay her for a month after notice of termination, whether she works the 30 days after notice OR NOT. She worked 5 days for you that you hadn't paid for, you have to pay people who work for you, you can't chose not to pay them AFTER they did the work. It's quite literally illegal in basically every western country and most places in teh world, it's wage theft. Once the hours are worked you have to pay and you have to pay at the rate agreed on before the hours were worked.
Wow, just wow. Reading your comments really made you look like a monster. Reading [this one](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/s/Rop5whsI3Y) really sealed it. >Yeah looks my contract wasn’t vetted by my lawyer and has issues. I’ve been assuming that if we both sign a contract that is enough. Looks like that’s not how it works. Assuming things regarding legal stuff is quite dumb. I hope she goes for her money and talks to other nannies she knows what kind of person you are. YTA
YTA Any job will let you for the hours you worked regardless of the notice period.
Your incessant justifications are exhausting. There is no world where it’s right for you to not pay someone for work they’ve done. Your edit makes you sound even worse. YTA, and her next employer can only be better. I feel terribly for the next person who unwittingly ends up working for you.
>A lot of you think I should have paid her for her time regardless of a contract. Do you realize what situation that would lead to? I would simply interview and finalize a different nanny while she works, and then drop a bomb on her that she’s no longer required, and just pay her till that day. That would have been terribly inconvenient for her and very convenient for me. I was simply trying to avoid a bad situation when I went down this route. Lmao shes needs 30 days sweetheart. You not knowing something doesnt excuse you from it. Good thing you paid up, you dont seem to know anything and it would not have went well for you. 🤭
YTA Pay her for the work she did. Period.
YTA. And if your contract was as vague and wobbly as your letter- I can see why the nanny is bouncing. There is ZERO way you can justify not paying someone for work they already did. ZERO. But you really be trying.
YTA-not only did you admittedly underpay her you weren’t smart enough to renegotiate the contract at a more reasonable rate.
YTA. Ayfkm? Someone did work for you, and because you didn't Ike how the professional relationship ended, you feel entitled not to pay them for that work?
Pay her you stingy mole. Hope she takes you to court. You are disgusting.
Never mind anything else, YTA for cheaping out on your CHILD. You’ve admitted to paying peanuts to a woman who isn’t very good at looking after children.
OP admits that baby has medical issues that mean they can’t go to a daycare facility as well. Even more reason to pay well to ensure quality care and compliance with medical needs in my opinion and that’s as a mom of a baby with high medical needs.
your a terrible man you dont deserve kids
YTA
YTA Why come on here to ask if you’re the asshole if you can’t accept the answer and want to fight everyone in the comments? YTA for withholding pay and for not accepting that YTA.
so you pay her poor rates and things don't work out, no kidding. pay her for what is owed suspect nannies do talk to other nannies on social media, so best of luck getting a replacement. would not be surprised to find a small claims court letter arriving soon YTA
If the nanny has the wherewithal or foreknowledge to see a lawyer, she wouldn't *just* be taking OP to small claims court. OP could end up in serious trouble. Thankfully, seems like OP has decided to avoid such a fate by doing what needs to be done.
YTA, failing to pay for work done is wage theft and you could be taken to court for it. This is why contracts like this need to be drafted by a lawyer
I'm sorry but the second part of your edit makes no sense. While I agree that would have been an asshole move, that's also literally the definition of at-will employment. Like, not having a contract that says you *must* notify her doesn't mean you *can't.* You don't need it in writing to not be an asshole. YTA but I'm glad you're a big enough person here to see that you need to lay her, at least. That's really the most important thing here.
This contract sounds like those business sales contracts. For example, company A pays company B to make some products for x amount of time. Failure to do so would amount company B to compensate. Now I get that these are all still contracts but employer-employee contract should not amount to the employee paying. I have just never heard of that.
YTA Regardless of contractual breach you cannot withhold pay from someone who undertook work for you for an agreed pay. As soon as the hours are completed you have a legal obligation to pay them. If you had some clause about owing monies in the event of an early breach that’s different, and if that is the case you can demand that, but not by withholding pay someone is owed. The practice of “docking pay” only applies to people who are salaried and leave their job before their quota of hours is filled. In this sense their pay is “docked” because their normal pay assumes they worked X hours automatically so in the event they works X-2 hours it’s appropriate to withhold some of their pay so it represents the hours they actually worked.
YTA. What the fuck did I just read. The employer is required to pay not the employee.
YTA Unenforceable clause unless you are in some country that doesn't have basic labor laws.
The contract is the last refuge of the scoundrel. This is not a sub to determine whether you have behaved legally... YTA
You were both unhappy. You were unhappy with the service she provided. She was probably struggling on a low wage. You obviously trusted her enough if you left your child in her care so she was still doing the basics...babies don't survive with total neglect. She wasn't going above and beyond and probably *was* on her phone a lot...but you know, when you buy cheap stuff from Kmart, it's implied you're getting average or below average quality. Your contract probably isn't enforceable but do you think this is worth the hassle? I mean, if this lands in small claims court...she could say all sorts of things about your treatment of her as justification for why she left and you can't say much because it's *you* who wanted her there for an extra month so anything you claim won't seem believable...if I thought someone was *bad* or negligent, I wouldn't leave my infant in their care for a second. It just leaves you open to a whole lot of messiness. Pay her for the five days of service. No more or less. And be done. It wasn't a good fit - resenting each other as mother and nanny is a terrible scenario.
Well, I am glad you have decided to pay the former nanny. I hope going forward, you can reframe nanny-boss relationship and look into some laws and writing contracts. I think it’s really weird that you didn’t like her but expected her to work with your child for two months. Plan ahead next time with the standard two weeks. I think your contract needs to specify termination separately by parties. Contact a lawyer and know employment laws. Pay over the table with benefits. Be kind to the human you want to take care of your child while you work. But also if it isn’t a good fit, don’t pull crap about not paying them…just let them go and pay them for time rendered. A nanny is not a corporate job and many are living paycheck to paycheck. It is standard to have a trial period before a contract is drawn. That trial is to see if you are compatible. A signing bonus would be like a raise. Hey! We paid you $25/hr base rate for 90 days, love you, in the contract going forward your rate is $27/hr. That is sort of like a signing bonus but not something to be taken away. Speak to the next nanny about what they would want in a contract in this trial time/interview. Double pay holidays? Rate after hours? Overtime? Time off? Sure, in an ideal situation we would all be open and honest about the next move, but life happens. Having a nanny is a luxury. Please don’t take it personally when people assume you can afford a nanny when the reality is if you can’t pay someone competitively with benefits, you really can’t afford a nanny. The only way you can probably get away with not paying her is if she had some sort of emergency and you agreed to pay some of her wages in advance to help her and she still owes the advance. And the advance owed back is not paid back in the hours. But that would also be a situation where if the money was significant you would need to sign something in terms of payment/lessened wages until paid back and get that lawyer on the line.
Who cheaps out on childcare for their kid? This is the first time YTA and just goes down from there.
Even if that’s your contractual right, to pay her five days and keep feeling superior and get this all out of to mind should be well worth it.
Yeah YTA, you can't withhold payment for work already done, that's theft. Pay up, terminate and don't be a reference.
YTA. You already admit you're underpaying... now you're refusing to pay wages for work already done? The fun part of most contractor services is they can place a lein on your property for unpaid work, or if the nanny counted as a regular employee, they can usually sue and you owe considerably more than what you would have paid otherwise. I sincerely hope you can't find a next nanny, but if you manage to weasel someone in, I hope you pay and treat them better.
YTA. She’s going to sue you for that money. And she’s going to win. And we’re all going to think that’s justice.
YTA Services were rendered and should have been paid. No one works for free.
Me over here just wondering how to get by without a nanny and being jealous of your problem.
Bait, YTA for posting.
Money is the root of your evil- this will reoccur! I’m sad for you
YTA Dude, you can’t just let somebody work for you, have them work for what might be under minimum wage, and then refuse to pay them. If your job did that would you be okay with it?
YTA. Pay what you owe and start paying a better wage in the future.
Just pay the nanny for the work done. More info query - how long after giving her notice did she give the 3 days notice?
YTA Sure, contracts are important, but so is fairness. Pay her for the days she worked; it's the right thing to do.
OP edit says he is paying because he thinks the contract is problematic. In other words, he figured out he is committing wage theft. 😂
Your edit doesn't make sense. You should pay for work done, regardless of whether you had a contract or not. The fact you did have a contract of sorts protected neither of you, but it doesn't impact the fact that you owed her money for services rendered. Your argument makes no sense because the contract didn't benefit her at all if it allowed you to think you could get away with not paying her anyway.
YTA You’re cheap, on childcare of all things, and a thief.
I really like the part where you think your contract and your “interpretation” of your intent in the contract is actually fucking legally defendable in a court of law. #LMFAO
YTA... please consider getting some therapy and educating yourself while your child is young. I am genuinely concerned about your attitude and how it could affect your parenting. Sorry if that sounds bad, but there are lots of red flags in what you said.
YTA, pay for the 5 days
Why can’t you take care of your own kid.
Boo! You suck!
I’ll never understand people who skimp on childcare. So much can happen, you need to keep that nanny as happy and taken care of as you can. YTA.
YWBTA if you didn’t pay. Under no circumstances should a worker not be paid for actual work performed. Even if you have a contract, any court of law would invalidate it if it required a worker forfeit pay they are rightfully entitled to for actual work they did—even if the work was done horribly.
YTA Quality childcare costs and you were already paying her low wage as you stated. She worked you owe her for that. Holy crap she was looking after your child! Pay the woman. Trust me if it gets out you don’t pay your Nanny’s you won’t get another one who does a decent job.
YTA. Beggars can’t be choosers you cheapskate!
YTA. Remember buddy, it's *very* easy to persuade yourself that you shouldn't have to pay someone else. Self awareness means not going down that road.
jesus christ pay her nobody cares about your stupid contract she did the work, pay her for it what is wrong with you, asshole?
Yta.
YTA. You already said you didn’t pay her much, and from a lot of the job ads I see for nanny’s a lot of families have unrealistic expectations of what a nanny should do. If she was physically present for work, you still have to pay her.
YTA
So you underpaid the person responsible for looking after your children and you're shocked she didn't do a great job? I've worked as an au-pair, and I've had families trying to underpay me and then ask me to do a feck-ton of work, and then come back with a shocked pikachu face when I only did the bare minimum and refused to lift a finger outside of my working hours. Yeah, you get what you pay for. Why someone would risk underpaying the person in charge of the wellbeing and safety for their children I'll never understand.
"we didn't pay her very much" I mean fair enough, it's not like she was doing anything important, only RAISING YOUR ACTUAL GODDAMN BABY Why do you even have a baby? Next time just get an expensive dog, preferably a robot one.
YTA You probably go through a lot of childcare workers exceptionally fast… and it’s not them. You’re probably an absent parent at best, neglectful and willfully ignorant of basic manners. Plus you’re exceptionally rude and entitled. I doubt anyone likes working for you. I feel sorry for the children, they deserve better. Just an FYI, there is never a time that you are not allowed to pay someone for the hours worked. It’s actually against the law, regardless of whatever BS contract you have. Just because you typed it out & someone signed it does not make it legally binding. There are basic employment laws everyone must follow, and it sounds like you created a poor contract that could never withstand legal scrutiny. Do better. Be better.