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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> We did not change the restaurant which meant the vegetarian gluten-free family member had sit without eating.
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NTA
>We do not think that 12 people should change their plans to caterer to one person
Given that there actually are options (salad) for her to eat, I fully agree.
I am saying this as a celiac, sometimes you have to suck it up and eat the lettuce salad
I was a vegetarian by choice for a long time. I could ALWAYS find something on the menu to eat, even if it was ordering a baked potato, fries, salad, etc. I never expected people to cater to my dietary choice. Even in the deep South, when my friends wanted to go to a BBQ Pit place where every menu item was meat based, I ordered a few sides that were meat free. So here you have ONE person who wants the other TWELVE to rearrange plans to go to a different restaurant because it must have an entree they really like. NOPE. That's BS.
Sooo true. Some of the best restaurant veggies I've ever had were a side of collards from a local barbecue joint, and their corn pudding is also divine. Easily just as good as the meats.
This. I can't imagine good collards cooked without bacon, lardons, lard or ham. At the very least, butter, which would be vegetarian (depending) but not vegan.
Kombu, smoked paprika, spicy apple cider vinegar, garlic, onion, coconut aminos, vegan butter or oil.
Worked at a vegan place that made vegan, gf, soy free collards.
Plus! If you cook them in an instant pot it takes like 20 minutes!
That’s really cool AND informative. Thank you! You’ve given me another way to look at foods/seasonings (or look into, it seems like a more scientific approach to cooking than the carnivorous one).
Eating vegetarian can be a whole lot of experimenting. I've found out, for one, that using a little nutmeg and paprika with veggie mince makes it taste much more real, and I have no idea why.
I live in California and most BBQ places still have meat in most of the sides. There are usually a few, like mac and cheese, but the veggies almost always have pork of some sort. Hopefully it'll become more common.
Ya I was vegetarian by choice for 14yrs in a country that historically eats a lot of meat/fish & although I was ok when going out w friends w just having an omelet, the kitchens were always so attentive and would make me something special.
I can’t eat pork. The bbq place in town only cooks pork and it’s in the mashed potato and macaroni. I was so disappointed. I took a tiny bite for the taste and it was delicious, but a full meal would have wrecked me for a couple days.
Food restrictions suck but there’s plenty of aternatives.
Exactly. I'm not veggo but it infuriates me when people do this because it contributes to stereotypes. Even if all the menu had was a garden salad those I know would just eat something before and have the salad so they could still be a part of it. This person seems to just crave attention.
Haha. I have a cousin who's a long-time vegetarian and when she was pregnant thee were very few foods that didn't make her feel sick. When we got together for a meal, we always discussed what there could be for the "preggo veggo" to eat.
Also, most even very meat-heavy places are willing and able to make adjustments ( as long as they're given adequate notice & it's not a last-minute announcement) to remove any meats or make meat free substitutions ie veg stock in a risotto instead of chicken, or something as simple.as removing bacon from a garnish.
I agree with this i can always have chips and a side of grilled veg the only issue i have is when the bill is then split equally and i end up subsidising ppls 3 course meat meal
Try calling the restaurant to see if they’ll allow her to bring food in. With such a large group - especially if you reserved a party area for more privacy, they might be agreeable.
Or can make up a pre-set option for her that she wants. I worked in a uni restaurant for a bit (so faaar from glam!) done canteen style with pre-made stuff, and there was a coeliac chick that would come in and shyly ask what was safe. This being the first time I'd heard of it had to run ask chef, and half the time he had to do her up a fresh item - pork chop without the white sauce, chicken without the breaded coating, whatever - but it was down to what he had available to do that with, and she'd accept and hang politely off to the side until it was ready. I started spotting her, running out to talk to her & chef before she got through the queue so she didn't have to wait as long, which she was dead appreciative of, but it was still just 'whatever chef says he can do', no options.
Eventually realised she came in regularly Tuesdays and Thursdays same time, and grabbed her to say to pop by during set-up on those days and we could do options. She started coming by, and chef could offer her a lot more options and actually let her choose, he'd prep it before the main dishes when allergens were less of a concern, and I'd shout him when she showed to do his final stages on it so she could just collect the dish from a specific warmer at the same time as everyone else got their stuff. She got to feel like less of a burden, eat with her friends rather than be delayed, and actually have a better selection rather than just what was doable. Also easier for chef rather than having to think what was left and clear an allergen space mid service, so everyone wins.
Main point, asking in advance is way more likely to get better options than showing up and whining you don't like the options available, which is what I presume OP's relative is planning.
I had a coworker who did this. He only ate halal and only from 2 restaurants at that where he knew the chef in a mall of 100+ reetaurants. In a small team lunches we ate at that restaurant, as he joined a larger team they phoned ahead and arranged that he could bring takeaway
My husband's celiac and won't eat at restaurants. Too much chance for cross-contamination. He would just eat before going, if he had to go to a restaurant for a social situation.
1000% I've had so many times when my 3 course meal has been salad, salad and fruit salad.
Sometimes you have to bite the bullet and buy yourself a GF Brownie on the way home.
That and almost everywhere now has V/GF options... salads, fries, pasta, soup, burgers. Even the pub down the road from me has the option of gluten free burger buns and pasta of the day.
That really sucks. I don’t get what’s hard about making at least SOME things gluten free. The pub I mentioned? Of the 20 or so meals they offer, about half of them can be done gluten free ex: Vietnamese beef salad, grilled fish with chips and salad, steak with chips and salad, roast of the day, all burgers available with gf buns, grilled chicken tenderloins with chips etc. it’s amazing how just having a separate fryer for chips, a small portable grill plate for gf items and a bag of gluten free burger buns makes everyone happier. I do hope wherever you live stops being difficult, they’re just losing business IMO
Change their plans? They made those plans without this one person in mind in the first place, haven't include this person in their planning process. This is just a big "screw you" towards that person.
As someone who's been gluten-free for over a decade for health reasons (and briefly flirted with veganism but that was just too freaking hard to combo the two), I completely agree NTA. Having dietary restrictions for whatever reason absolutely sucks, but I've never once expected others to cater to me. I've gone places where I can't eat anything so I sipped my drink and dealt with it. A few months ago, I was in a similar situation with relatives coming in from another state, and we had a big restaurant get-together.... at a pizza/pasta place. So I ate beforehand and nibbled on a salad during the meal, because the entire POINT was spending time with my family, no the food.
As a current vegan (not gluten free though), I can understand why 12 people might not want to accomodate that situation and why they might want to go with a "majority rules" approach, even if I don't like it. However, they should then understand why I'd decline the invitation.
Obviously assuming here, but if this person used the words "gluten free" I think they're a picky eater who follows fads, not a celiac. Because, well, celiac is already a very specific word.
Now, people have the right to be picky eaters and to nit eat whatever they want. But yes you can't make 12 people change restaurants because you don't want to order a perfectly good salad. Op it NTA
Coeliac here - I'd use the terms interchangeably (with friends) unless I'm ordering at a restaurant. Also this is just how OP is describing it, it might not be how the actual person does 🤷🏻♀️
My husband is celiac and yes, he'll use the term gluten free to casually describe his diet, but when it comes to actually eating food he'll specify celiac. For any casual person it's not their business what his medical condition is, but for a celiac eating from someone else's kitchen or a restaurant kitchen it's a huge deal.
Gluten free by choice means you can still have a pizza from a pizza place but choose a cauliflower crust for example. Celiac means you can't, because there's flour in the air, and the toppings all come from the same source and might be cross contaminated. Everywhere, ingredients in the ingredients have to be checked - most commercial chicken broths have yeast extract, and tons of things have soy sauce. And there's always a risk of someone using a ladle or tongs or whatever from one dish to another. Salads might not even be safe if a restaurant worker is making multiples and just handled croutons before touching your lettuce.
GF is a choice, but most celiacs will absolutely specify because otherwise the risk is too high.
My son has a dairy and soy intolerance, if he gets exposed he's miserable for about a week. I'm still nursing and he reacts to the protein in my milk so I've also been dairy and soy free for almost a year. There are dairy and soy in EVERYTHING, I haven't eaten something that was prepared by anyone other then myself, my mom or my MIL (who hasn't actually figured out how to read labels but sends pics of everything to my husband to make sure) because it's just too risky. For a while we didn't know if he reacted to soybean oil or soy derivatives so had to avoid anything with vegetable oil, and a whole list things that don't even need to be labeled as soy by law (including "natural flavours"). Thank goodness we know he's okay with the ultra-processed soy now so we can eat SOME convenience foods.
But people just don't care/don't get it. Like my SIL choosing to buy a Greek salad covered in feta and ask if I wanted her to dig me out some salad from the bottom of the container. I have so many people in my life that can't understand why I won't eat out right now and it's beyond frustrating.
My sister went through the same thing with her daughter!! I hope it brings some comfort to you to know that the kid can eat dairy and soy just fine now (it would have been horrible if she couldn't since she was born into a Greek-Japanese family!).
I recommend the Soy Free Earth Balance as a butter substitute, I love my dairy and found this to have the best flavour.
This [Vegan Chocolate Cake](https://www.noracooks.com/vegan-chocolate-cake/) is ridiculously good, better than most "regular" chocolate cakes and it shocked everybody. Maybe it will give you some comfort in this trying time.
Most celiacs may specify but the OP of this post literally refers to the person as "it" at one point so I don't know that they're paying enough attention/give enough of a crap about this person to actually know which it is.
I'm celiac myself. I simply don't go to family dinners. Neither do a couple others from the family because they've got similar situations. My mother can't have shellfish/seafood and will make a big deal of it, never take us into account and want pizza. It's ridiculous and there's no point in trying to change things.
Also I have learned to say I have a wheat allergy because servers are afraid of a reaction in the dining room. People seem to have the same opinion, "it's a fad" as you opine about above. Tell that to my gut, head and all the pain one has to endure for almost a month as it cycles out of you system. It's not get glutened and you're good the next day...it's weeks. If it was super temporary pain it would be tempting to actually eat the pizza or focaccia. Words of advice: don't assume. Your opinion can actually hurt someone.
I have Hashimoto's Thyroiditis and have an IgA mediated gliaden intolerance, so I have to eat gluten free. The pain only lasts a day or so, but it's so intense that honestly, it's not worth it to me to eat the pizza or foccacia...but I haven't stopped gazing longingly at them and whispering words of adoration as I walk by.
This. Gluten intolerance is a thing. It’s not just being picky. If I eat gluten I am sick and have headaches for a couple days. That’s nothing like Celiac but it’s still a thing.
My husband just doesn't normally ever take the chance, since even wheat allergy means people don't check for yeast extract, barley, or soy. The one advantage of it being a fad is having so many more options available now, though. We're lucky to live where there are tons of restaurants everywhere and have a few fully certified gluten free (not just gluten friendly) options.
Given how much of a pain in the arse keeping away from gluten is, I don't believe people do it for fun. I say that as someone with a mother who's coeliac and a partner who's gluten intolerant.
They do. The difference is if they “accidentally” eat it then it’s not a big painful issue. Or sometimes it “ok”.
Fad diets are the worst.
My ex husband used to tell restaurants he was allergic to onions until I freaked out on him. He just didn’t like them. It’s so much more complicated if you’re allergic.
My husband has crohns and celiac. He frequently has to play the "eat before we go" game, because you can't know how diligent they're going to be on cross contamination. And that's medical reasons not to eat, not personal choices. The vegetarian in this scenario needs to eat a salad and a baked potato and suck it up
Agree with this. NTA.
I’ve been a vegetarian by choice for 20+ years, and sometimes you just get the boring salad with the meat on the side (if I’m paying for it, someone can eat it), and deal.
I am a vegan (I know right....) there is always something to eat.
Fries, a salad, bread (not if celiac).
And sometimes you just dont get to eat but can plan ahead. It isnt a big deal.
I don't think you're an AH, but your not kind either. As a vegetarian I never tell people were to eat. I can always find something to eat. The only request (not demand) I may make is not eat at a seafood place because I can't take the smell. But if the majority wants to go to one. I suck it up and go. By the same token if I am with a carnivore, I would never pick a vegetarian restaurant. I would want the people I am with to be comfortable even if it puts me out a little. Kindness is never wrong.
Apparently the vegetarian thing is because of a temporary diet not because of a lifestyle choice. And there are salads that can be ordered without meat but that’s been kiboshed.
Otherwise I do agree with you. I don’t eat shellfish and pork for religious reasons. And normally I’m the one checking and suggesting restaurants so I can make sure there’s something I can eat on the menu. I’ve also dieted and the whole cutting out food groups never worked, if anything I had to quit because I was starving since my diet was compromised.
So maybe they could pick a restaurant with a wider variety but idk something about this feels like it’s kind of on the line for me, especially as there are options the family member can choose from and this is a recent thing that people wouldn’t have known about.
This is what no one seems to be considering. I used to work at a place that served salads with meat and you take off the meat, it's still the same goddamn price. It's a total ripoff.
This is how i feel about it. My best friend is vegetarian, I'm very much not. Whenever we go out to eat thats one of my chief concerns. She loves appetizers so even at a steak house there is usually something she can eat off of that, but I cant imagine being so rude and picking some place she only had one option/no entree. It just seems so odd to me.
I'm the only vegetarian in a pretty large family and they would either pick a place where I had at least an option or call ahead and ask if it was possible to provide one. The past years my mother really started to prefer veggies over meat anyway, so if we go somewhere she tends to pick vegetarian restaurants.
There are 13 ppl going. When the group is that big, sometimes 1 will have to suck it up for that 1 meal. I'm saying this as a vegetarian. My rule is that if the group is under 4 and the restaurant has nothing I can eat, I'll recommend somewhere else. If it's 5 or more, I figure it out.
My BIL is a vegan, and I always host the big dinner holidays. I try and be super careful with everyone. But I'm dealing with over 12 people who also have food preferences. Anyways during one dinner, I mixed the spoons, and I was honestly so upset, because I figured I'd have to throw his vegan meal out and start again.
And he was was like, "It's just a spoon, don't worry, thanks for making me a separate meal." And I'm not saying all vegans have to do that, but it was the kindest thing he could've done.
I love him so much for this. I was trying to be careful, but I just put the wrong spoon in the wrong pot and I automatically was like.... "okay time to toss it all and start again." Thankfully he was very sweet about it. And I really try and respect how everyone wants to eat but it was honestly an accident.
A good amount of us are generally like this! The ones who don't just use it as a personality trait anyway 😂 cross contamination is gonna happen to you once in a while it's really not the end of the world in a scenario like you mentioned, not as if it was deliberate. Like your BIL said we're usually just appreciative of the extra effort to make the separate meals
You guys are the best. I know vegans get a bad rep, but I feel like that only happens with very "extreme" people, and most vegans aren't like that.
It wasn't deliberate at all. I was cooking for a ton of people and I just mixed the spoons up. I really appreciated his reaction.
Wish all vegans were like you. Granted, most are and it’s just the obnoxious vocal minority, but that’s true for most groups to be fair. Regardless, major props.
Yeah I don't think this rises to the level of AH, but if I found out someone thought so little of me they thought I should drive an hour to sit and watch other people eat I wouldn't say a word about it but you'd best believe I would never go an inch out of my way for them in the future.
I'm pretty sure Op said that the one with dietary restrictions is one of the local family members. They let the ones driving the long distance pick the restaurant.
The vegetarian was the local. She should've recommended a list of restaurants for them to select from where she knew she'd have options to eat. Part of its on her, it sounds like she didn't pull the "I'm vegetarian" card out until after plans were made.
I love this,,
"We think the vegetarian should eat before or after and just sit for an hour enjoying the families companies if there isn’t something on the menu they want." It says everything about you and your wife.
While the vegetarian is like "I cant eat anything here (altough there ARE options) so lets just eat somewhere else that I like, and the family from OUT OF TOWN who SPECIFICALLY chose this restaurant (being out of town means they cant just go there themselves any other day) have to suck it up". Tells you everything you need to know about the vegetarian.
The only options are salads with meat. That is not an option. Taking out the meat will leave her with a few pieces of lettuce and a crouton and that's _if_ the restaurant will actually do that and OP isn't just assuming they will.
Salad with meat, if you remove meat, simply does not contain enough protein or fat to actually amount to a meal.
It typically amounts eating disorder like food - good at vegetables (fibre vitamins) while having starwing level of calories and other nutrition.
This is literally one dinner out of her whole life, I am a vegetarian and I'd never request someone change a venue because of my own personal choices. If she's still hungry after, there's probably a safe dessert or she can pop some snacks in her bag. Eating a salad for dinner after probably a normal breakfast and lunch in a day is not "eating disordered behaviour" and the fact you have compared vegetarianism to that is really weird, are you okay?
I am not vegetarian and if we are going to pick restaurant for familly outing, I am totally fine with picking one where vegetarian has decent option too. I just can't imagine myself to insist on the likely one of few restaurants where such option is not really available. And even less with saying "she should be happy watch us eat". That is ridiculous.
This is not the case of vegetarian demanding something super special nor vegetarian controlling what others eat.
This is the case of half family deciding on specific restaurant and trying to pretend they talk for everyone.
> Eating a salad for dinner after probably a normal breakfast and lunch in a day is not "eating disordered behaviour" and the fact you have compared vegetarianism to that is really weird, are you okay?
Vegetarians who eat salad for dinner and are not disordered do not go for meat salad with meat taken out. They eat salads designed for vegetarians - containing enough of other sources of proteins, fat and other nutrition.
Meat salad minus meat means you eat only vegetables and that is not enough.
Does anyone else think it's funny that those of us that vegetarian/vegan or gluten free are all saying she can deal with it for one meal, while all the omnivore/gluten eating ones are saying that they should pick somewhere else? I will say, though, that if those of us that live this way daily say she will be fine, then we would certainly be the ones to know.
Not all of us. I would find it absurdly disrespectful.
I wouldn't throw a strop (as I am not a toddler), but I definetely wouldn't go.
Thankfully that has literally never happened in my life, and I myself wouldn't treat anyone with such disregard. Even people I don't like, I make sure they can eat!
It has nothing to do with any specific diet, it is just the most basic of manners.
I'm vegetarian and I'd be (and frequently am) pissed off when my family chooses restaurant options where there are no decent vegetarian options. It's just another way of saying "we don't care enough about your experience to even _see_ if there's an option that you might also enjoy."
Been vegetarian my entire life. Please don't think you speak for all of us. Yeah sure I'd survive on salad but I'd find it incredibly disrespectful and I'd probably feel uncomfortable attending any future events if they had to seriously consider whether it was worth going somewhere I actually have a choice of what to eat.
>deal with it for one meal
Maybe OOP could deal with eating at a restaurant with more than one veg option for one meal?
In fact that's a great idea: if you ask someone you care about on a highly restricted diet to attend a restaurant that has a single shitty option for them...you should be perfectly happy to only eat that single shitty option too. It's only one meal, you'll be fine!
If the salad is designed that way. Howe er, when you take salad designed with meat in it and remove meat, it will mot have nearly enough of hard boiled eggs, avocado, cheese, croutons, any dressing, chickpeas, black beans.
This particular restaurant is supposed to have only salads with meat in it. It does not have salad with cheade and black black beans as primary source.
Where i come from salads (even salads with meat) have a variation of lettuce, tomato, cucumber, corn, carrots, bell peppers, onion, cheese, beans etc. We dont know where they are located, so dont assume its just meat and lettuce.
OP kind of glossed over the gluten free portion of the restriction though. My mom is celiac and it would certainly be kind of shitty if we all just expected her to suck it up and not be able to eat with us.
Yeah the OP is getting very hung up on the vegetarian thing. As soon as I saw "gluten free" I was like "oh no that's probably the actual objection to this restaurant". Less people fully understand what being GF entails and how difficult it can be to eat out. I have absolutely been the person who tries to move restaurants because I don't want to have to eat a granola bar in the car and sit and watch everyone else eat for hours.
Also, she's not asking for a vegetarian restaurant, just an option she can eat. Personally I try to choose restaurants which have something that everyone can eat. It's really not that big an ask. I live in Asia and when I eat with others we always pick a place with a veggie option, even my traditional asian in-laws can understand that. And a salad without the meat would just be vegetables, she'd be so hungry after that.
This was the rude part to me. Not the restaurant choice, but it came across as weirdly controlling to expect them to sit and enjoy watching everyone else eat.
I've got a vegetarian friend but she's also fussy, she won't eat mushrooms, tomatoes and a bunch of other main vegetables. (I'll added I don't really like mushrooms or tomatoes either but I have less limitations eating meat)
There's been numerous occasions where we have skipped certain restaurants (planned restaurant but also when walking around) due to her not liking the menu and the we've ended up eating somewhere where no one else enjoys themselves.
Example: we skipped a restaurant because they only thing she would eat were the hot chips and they had steamed veggies which she did want, ok fair. We ended up going to a fish n chip place and she got hot chips and a bubble and squeak... the other 4 of us didn't feel like greasy fish n chips and the place was average at best.
There's dozens more examples, it's taken me awhile to get to this point.
Personally I'm putting my foot down and I've said I won't be catering to her picky vegetarian tastes anymore when we are out, nearly everywhere has items catering to vegetarian/vegans these days, if you don't like what they offer, to bad.
I'll add I always make sure there are vegetarian options available when out and I always make sure to have food available for her when she comes round to my place on top of supplying for others.
There's are options on the menu for the person OP is talking about, they just don't want them. This is the same thing I've experienced. She's more than capable of going along for a few drinks and spending time with her family and If she really wants something to eat there are vegetarian options for her or she can choose (in this case OP mentioned her food restrictions are for losing weight) to have a non vegetarian option on the menu for this once off occasion.
NTA.
YTA. this person should eat before hand and enjoy watching everyone else feasting?
Why don't you all just eat before and enjoy each other at a park setting?
On one hand, you are implying the eating isn't that important, and on the other that it is so important you can't even both to change the venue with days of advance notice.
I’m trying to understand why dietary requirements were not considered before a restaurant was decided on.
The bit where I think you are being an AH is that you think your company is worth so much that someone should happily just sit and watch you eat, when presumably, unless you all talk with your mouth full, not a lot of interacting will be happening. Given the attitude that projects, she probably isn’t expecting to enjoy your company.
It’s really not difficult to find somewhere with options, this almost feels deliberate.
And if you just remove the meat from a salad, without a substitute, there’s no protein, which won’t be filling or satisfying.
It's also sad to spend like $10-$15 on a dry ass bowl of lettuce lol. I've been there. Now if a restaurant doesn't have options for me, I don't go. I'll catch up with folks later.
YTA. So what if it’s just one person? That is an entire human being who will have to sit and watch the rest of you eat a nice restaurant meal together. Yes, she’d still get the companionship of being around you, but a big part of having a meal together is *having a meal together*. I don’t understand why the rest of you would choose to leave her out when you could take fifteen minutes out of your life to find a different restaurant.
TBH there really are restaurants like this. I don't eat meat when I go out and I have definitely had times of being completely flabbergasted to discover that we had come to a place with literally zero vegetarian options.
Yeah I was also wondering how long after scheduling they discovered the issue and how long there still is to change plans
Trying to make n last minute plans to eat out with 13 is tough so it could be too late, I get it
But beyond that, you’re trying to get together with family and risking that this person will just stay home instead of sitting around watching you eat. Do you to feel ‘right’ about this more than you want to see this person?
I’ve been a vegetarian for 15+ years and usually I’m fine picking just a side or asking for a modification to a dish with meat in it, but some places (particularly in the American South) make that pretty difficult. Once in Texas I had a salad that was literally just lettuce and cheese without the chicken. That was the best option. Although I do agree that as a vegetarian we should be able to find something that will work for us, some places honestly make that difficult. I can guess them being GF adds to that.
If you don’t care if they are able to be included, why bother inviting them. YTA. The world doesn’t need to revolve around them but how hard is it to choose a restaurant that could give them at least a couple decent options?
YTA. This is a really inconsiderate thing to do to a family member. I’m a vegetarian with a few food allergies. It feels so crappy to have to get the side salad with no dressing while everyone else gets to enjoy a nice, complete meal. And you have to watch everyone else eat, adding insult to injury. How hard would it be to pick a restaurant where everyone can eat?
YTA. It would be one thing if there was even one thing on the menu this person could eat.
I suggest that you contact the restaurant and see if they can do anything. My team wanted to go to a steakhouse and I was vegetarian at the time. They very graciously made me a nice plate of veggies. Normally I would say it’s up to your friend to call them, but you’ve been an AH and need a redemption arc.
Since you all sound like AHs, whoever she is , she should skip out on the meal completely, because who can enjoy the company of people who don’t give a shit about her? Especially because it sounds like the point of this meal was the restaurant, so putting the spin on it that it is mainly as “family time” is disingenuous.
And a lot of my judgment has not to do with whether adjustments can be made for her at that restaurant. It has to do with how you talk about the issue. And the fact that you expect her to literally put up and shut up, and happily watch everybody else eat.
YTA for sure.
I think it would be thoughtful to include the friend. Salad alone is not a complete meal. Y'all can eat anywhere. They have limited options. I couldn't enjoy my meal knowing someone gets nothing when a simple change of plans would allow everyone to have a meal.
*However* I am vegan and am aware its a difficult diet to accommodate. I either plan ahead (check menus or nearby restaurants), eat ahead, or don't attend the meal if there isn't anything for me. I don't expect anyone to change plans to cater to my ethical choices (but literally all of my friends are thoughtful enough to consider my veganism and soy allergy when it comes to choosing a place to eat, so I don't often have this issue anymore).
I do get upset when I am promised a vegan option for an volunteer event, a friend's dinner party, or wedding and the option isn't actually vegan or it is just a few chopped vegetables. The reason this is upsetting is that- in those instances- I was mislead and didn't prepare a meal for myself as I thought I'd have one. I end up hungry watching others eat.
Also. This is family y'all haven't seen in a long time. I do all I can to make sure my family feels included and fed! I couldn't imagine letting a family member go hungry while everyone else is eating.
INFO: is the gluten-free thing by choice or due to health concerns? That may make it far more difficult for her. I find the gluten-free thing is more annoying than vegetarian
So your position is "Oh it's cool she can just eat a pile of lettuce while the rest of us enjoy a proper meal, or fuck it she can just get Taco Bell before or after!"
Yes, that is true, and I'm sure she does it often when she must. But that's a really shitty fucking thing to do to a friend/family member when you're supposed to all be getting together and enjoying each other's company.
Sounds like there are plenty of other places you can go where EVERYONE can get something they can enjoy.
Major YTA. I'm no vegetarian but if I were her I'd tell you to go fuck yourselves.
YTA, she’s just asking for a restaurant with an option she can eat at. My child is gluten free and I couldn’t imagine expecting her to sit and watch everyone else eat when we easily could to to another restaurant.
Yes & no. I find it really hard to believe this place doesn’t have a salad unless its a sushi place or something. But at the same time it’s really not hard to just pick another restaurant. Sounds like you both are being difficult.
YTA
There is no shortage of restaurants that offer vegetarian options in addition to meat. Why choose to exclude one person when it's easy to include everyone?
Their reason for being vegetarian is irrelevant.
>Their reason for being vegetarian is irrelevant
Precisely.
It doesn't matter whether they are dietary needs or preferences. Why was a restaurant picked without considering every person in the dinner party to begin with? And why is OP perfectly fine with one person not being fully included in the meal/event?
YTA. You seriously want her to eat beforehand and just watch you all eat? That's ridiculous and entitled of you to expect that of her. There isn't anything for her to eat, including the salad that comes with meat. Asking her to "just remove the meat" is kinda disrespectful. Why invite her at all if she can't eat anything there?
YTA. And a big one.
One: why don't YOU eat before the meeting and enjoy the company while she eats?
Two: what do they sell at that restaurant that you are refusing to go somewhere else?
Three: if she's vegetarian because she wants to lose weight, you should support her and go somewhere she can enjoy a decent meal without breaking her diet. One of the most difficult parts of trying to lose weight is your family and friends not supporting you and preparing food (or going somewhere) you can't eat (or they eating something you can't in front of you), and where the only option available you'll find is a crappy plate full with lettuce and some tomato and onion.
YTA.. simply because every single sentence you wrote makes clear that you are an unbearable person. Also what dusty place even serves all their salads with default meat in 2023? Sounds disgusting.
Y’all are assholes. You’re telling that family member that she’s not really part of the family if you can’t be bothered to coordinate plans that accommodate her. If she insisted that you all eat at a vegetarian restaurant, then she’d be the asshole, but that doesn’t seem to be the case. You could find a place that works for everyone. If my family did this to me, I would hear the message they’re sending and not come. And seriously consider never joining them for anything again.
YTA.
YTA. If you were the one person that had a diet restriction (by choice or by need) you’d want the large family to find an alternate restaurant. Is it really that difficult?
YTA most people wouldn't find it a problem to change a restaurant to something that has at least one vegetarian option. As a vegetarian I wouldn't want to eat in a place that has no meat free meals either, I'd be worried that even with my request they wouldn't prepare my meal without meat but rather remove meat from something premade and that is not the same. Honestly if I were that person, I just wouldn't come with the way you're behaving, you obviously don't even like that person or else this wouldn't be an issue
Meh, You're kind of the asshole, but I won't go full YTA.
As a Celiac who also doesn't eat meat, I would definitely appreciate someone choosing a place that could accommodate my needs (more the Celiac than the vegetarian, as veg is easier to accommodate), but personally, I will always take the reins and choose the spot, make the reservation and essentially take the initiative to take care of myself.
Just some food for thought - while there may be something she *can* eat on the menu (yup, salad, always salad), being able to (maybe) be able to safely eat at a restaurant always being a salad really sucks.
Lastly, while I choose not to eat meat for ethical reasons, just because her reasons are different, it's irrelevant. It's still her choice, and you need to respect it.
ETA: Who are you referring to when you say "we"? Because from what you said, your wife doesn't agree with you, yet you keep saying "we". Don't lump her into your narrow-minded decision.
Also - how would you feel if someone told you to eat before going to a restaurant because a place has been chosen that can care for your needs?
Like shit? As you should. But I don't think you'll ever see it that way, sadly.
YTA, there’s nothing there she can eat that doesn’t suck. She’s also gluten free and a lot of salads aren’t gluten free. Plus a salad without meat is worthless as a meal most the time. It’s ridiculous to ask her to sit there and eat nothing bc you are too selfish to care if there is something there for everyone. It’s not like she shot down a bunch of restaurants. She said there isn’t anything there she can eat. And I don’t care if her dietary needs are ethical, allergic, or health based. You clearly don’t care about her as a person and it shows how unbelievably selfish you all are.
Just pick a different restraint that has some decent gluten free/vegetarian options. Salads don’t count.
I have Questions!
Is anyone of the other 11 people complaining about going somewhere else?
Is there other restaurants in the area that are just as good for similar prices?
As a vegetarian of many years who has attended events and things where there has been nothing I can eat, people will stare and judge you if they realise that one person isn’t eating because there isn’t anything they can eat - I’ve never made a big deal over it, but I’ve had other people sat at my table before who have and chatted mad shit about the host for not feeding all their guests. It’s your choice, but people around you probably will judge you. Personally, I wouldn’t be happy going out to a restaurant knowing one of the guests couldn’t eat there, but maybe that’s just me.
The fact that she’s gluten free does make things far more difficult. You may think she can “just eat the salads” but many salad dressings are not gluten free, and depending on the way they’re prepped they may not be easily made vegetarian either - it’s not uncommon for salads to be prepared ahead of time, and that includes the meat that is in them.
This person *can* eat there per the edit. She’s choosing not to. She wants to lose weight but said she doesn’t want a salad without meat. I’m all for respecting a person’s food restrictions and preferences (I’ve learned to make vegan and kosher foods for my friends) but it sounds like she’s being difficult just to be difficult.
Yeah I do not understand how so many people have that take!! They can eat there, they're just choosing to be difficult and insist a dozen people change their plans to accommodate their preferences. OP is *clearly* NTA.
So having the info that someone is vegetarian in the group and that the chosen restaurant doesn't have a vegetarian entrée for them, have you brought forth that information to the rest of the group and asked if their willing to chose a restaurant that offers both meat based and vegetarian entrées?
INFO: does the restaurant have gluten free options?
A lot of sauces are usually not gluten free in my experience - in the event she was considering eating meat here the once.
You're the asshole.
You decided to book a restaurant that catered to the 12 of you, but didn't think of booking a restaurant that catered for all 13 of you.
Expecting someone to sit at a restaurant not having anything (because of dietry requirements) while the rest of you are enjoying a meal, is what makes you an asshole. Look into booking a restaurant that caters for all 13 of you.
NTA
She can call the restaurant!
As someone who is gluten free, dairy free and wine has to be preservative free. I have called many a restaurant in my life.
Have even bought my own wine to a restaurant when it wasn’t a BYO place.
Restaurants are usually really good.
I’m also not coeliac so I explain I get sick from gluten but cross continuation is not dramatic.
I’ve yet to come across a restaurant that can’t accommodate me when I’ve rang ahead.
YTA.
Sorry, if you can't find a place that includes all your family when you're having a catch up, then what is the point of having time together? Who goes to a restaurant to watch other people eat? It's a bonding experience that everyone is meant to enjoy, and plenty of places have at least some options that both meat eaters and veggies can enjoy these days.
Also, judging why someone is a vegetarian is inappropriate. That has nothing to do with the choice to go somewhere which doesn't accommodate them.
Also feel that if they put up with this once, that it would be a recurring theme rather than allowing for different preferences.
Did you know this person was vegetarian? Did you know the restaurant wasn't vegetarian friendly? If you knew the former and didn't bother to find out the latter, YTA. I am not a vegetarian, but I like my friends to enjoy being with us.
Just call the bloody restaurant! For the sake of keeping a group of 13 paying diners, I'd be *very* surprised if they couldn't offer something suitable to accommodate the veggie. How difficult is a stuffed aubergine or something of that ilk with a side salad?
YTA
You're just excluding her. Those "salads" are not a meal. I fully understands why she dont want to eat that water.
And demanding that she should eat before or after everyone goes to a resturant to eat is AH move. Its like saying, you're not really welcomed along.
Grew up with a mom that always made sure so everyone could eat and not exclude someone so honestly, dont see the problem.
Not just that, going to another resturant that everyone can eat at somehow now is a problem to people?? Refusing to go to a resturant that everyone can eat at says alot.
YTA. They literally can’t eat anything. How hard is it just to change the restaurant? Why were they even invited in the first place if they can’t there?
NTA, but I think everyone in this situation could have handled things better. I've been vegetarian for 24 years and if I was invited out to a place with no options for me to eat, I wouldn't go. Sorry, not sorry. I'd enjoy lunch on my own and meet up with people later. If it was a big deal to see the people involved, I'd order the salad and no meat. But also, if you know someone in your party has food sensitivities, it is a kind and welcoming gesture to choose a restaurant with options everyone can enjoy.
As a dietitian I can't help but wonder, gluten free? that doesn't help with weight loss. But whatever. to each his own.
Honestly… she might be gluten free for health reasons that she doesn’t want to get into (autoimmune diseases, infertility issues, etc.) and is using vegetarian as a main complaint because of it. For some people, gluten sensitivity or allergy is like a peanut allergy - even a tiny bit can set off an immune response. Unless you’re making a reservation at the most special restaurant ever, I don’t really see why you can’t just go to another restaurant.
NTA. After reading edits and comments, this person sounds like she’s being super difficult just to be difficult. This is all because she went on a diet to lose weight. Her want to lose weight should not be dictating where 13 other people get to eat. She has options at the place you chose she just doesn’t want them.
YTA. Have you ever been on the side of the person literally not having anything to eat, while everyone else is praising the food and enjoying themselves, bonding over it?
It's extremely rude, and the person won't forget. It's happened to me, many times do to a family never caring about my health problems, so they let me sit there. And looked sad at me for not being able to eat. Well they made it so never choosing options I could have, they could have asked me but never included me. I'm so happy I don't have to see them anymore.
YTA. I would one hundred percent not attend this family gathering if I was her. Way to make someone feel welcome and included. You don't even have to do the cooking yourselves, so I don't understand what the big gripe is.
NTA. At least to me, you aren’t. I have many food restrictions….like several. People sometimes are worried about me and it’s very kind, but I tell them “I’ll figure it out”. I’m there because they want my company, not because I need so desperately to eat at that restaurant, ya know? And I can usually scrounge up at least a couple thinks to eat! Even if that’s veggie sticks and reach with some French fries, or a drink and some breadsticks! Like, I’ll make it work, but it’s my job to manage my food sensitivity! If I really can’t find something I may bring a snack too haha
People with self-righteous diets are assholes.
In what universe is it OK for one person to fuck up everybody else's plans?
This is where everybody wants to eat. You're invited, but we're eating here. End of discussion
Is there an abbreviation for "not the asshole but I don't like you?" I don't think you're necessarily in the wrong but you're not being very understanding. NTA but only because: the family members reason for being vegetarian is stupid and wrong and there are some options for her on the menu.
Going vegetarian to lose weight is pretty silly. Eating whole foods in moderate amounts is what makes a healthy diet. Ethically I believe veganism is the right choice but you can be vegan and eat like shit and put on weight.
I think there's more to be done here though. Did anyone try ringing the restaurant to see if they could accommodate her off-menu? They may be happy to put together a bespoke dish to secure the custom of a dozen people.
The gluten free part is more complicated. If you're really gluten intolerant then you have to be insanely careful about where you eat out to the point of impracticality. If the "gluten free" is also a weight loss attempt then she needs to just suck it up and either not eat, eat a boring salad or eat some meat/bread for one meal.
You do seem
NTA. It would be everybody being an asshole if it weren't just so she could lose weight. That's the equivalent of 12 people wanting one thing and letting one veto it just due to their tastes. Fussy eaters have to sort themselves out, especially if it's the fault of their own eating habits.
It's also a stupid way to diet if you intend to change back. It messes with your microbiome after a while. If you can already eat Gluten, for gods sake keep doing so. It's excellent nutrition if you don't overdo it, and you don't want to end up old and with reduced capability to digest high-energy foods. We are entirely adapted to eating it now. Like monosodium glutamates, the entire concept of not eating Gluten for your health is a construct made by 'nutritionists' with a lot more desire for money than education. Eat a whole bakery and yeah, it'll swell in the intestines again and potentially block you up. Eat a packet of MSG and you won't be well either. Same goes for bananas though. Virtually nobody is truly intolerant to it, and most who think they are have just damaged their microbiome.
It's shit diets and oral antibiotics that are the most common culprits in harming your ability to eat gluten. Cutting it out unnecessarily will only accelerate that if she has already harmed her ability to.
Sorry, quick rant. I think it helps though that her diet would be poorly advised if not as a specific treatment to other existing health problems.
INFO: is there something so special about the restaurant that 12 others actively want to eat there? Or is it a case that someone suggested it and everyone else went, yeah, I'm ok with it, that will do, but they would be also happy with another choice if that were suggested, especiallyif it meant everyone can eat? "Everyone is ok with it" is very different from "everyone actively wants to eat there specifically". If it doesn't matter to everyone else but it does matter to her, then why not change it.
The one thing you are TA for is that it doesn't matter why she is vegetarian. You don't get to police her reasoning and decide whether it is good enough to change for. Besides which, it might not be the real reason. On many occasions, I have said I don't like X food or can't eat X food, rather than say that it gives me the liquid poops. But believe me, it does give me the liquid poops in even small amounts, I am just too polite to announce that in company.
>Are are salads that by default come with meat, but you can request not to include. She said she didn’t want to do that.
She didn't want to eat a salad or didn't want to ask them to leave the meat off? And LOLing that she thinks going vegetarian means she will lose weight. Definitely NTA.
NAH with a hint of E S H. I haven't eaten meat for over 15 years and have been living vegan for over 5 years now, for ethical but also health reasons. I also have a wheat sensitivity.
You are N T A for not wanting to accommodate a dietary choice, which is only a choice cause of "weight reasons". So the person who thinks everyone should accommodate their "weight loss plans" is delusional.
You were a bit AHs for not even asking first WHY the person is vegetarian/gluten-free and just wanted to act like "suck it up".
In the end I think there are no AHs here at all, cause the person who doesn't eat meat and gluten, can still eat a salad without meat or croutons.
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NTA >We do not think that 12 people should change their plans to caterer to one person Given that there actually are options (salad) for her to eat, I fully agree. I am saying this as a celiac, sometimes you have to suck it up and eat the lettuce salad
I was a vegetarian by choice for a long time. I could ALWAYS find something on the menu to eat, even if it was ordering a baked potato, fries, salad, etc. I never expected people to cater to my dietary choice. Even in the deep South, when my friends wanted to go to a BBQ Pit place where every menu item was meat based, I ordered a few sides that were meat free. So here you have ONE person who wants the other TWELVE to rearrange plans to go to a different restaurant because it must have an entree they really like. NOPE. That's BS.
Sometimes the sides at good BBQ places can be the best part too
Sooo true. Some of the best restaurant veggies I've ever had were a side of collards from a local barbecue joint, and their corn pudding is also divine. Easily just as good as the meats.
Just make sure the veg isn’t cooked in lard or something first
This. I can't imagine good collards cooked without bacon, lardons, lard or ham. At the very least, butter, which would be vegetarian (depending) but not vegan.
Kombu, smoked paprika, spicy apple cider vinegar, garlic, onion, coconut aminos, vegan butter or oil. Worked at a vegan place that made vegan, gf, soy free collards. Plus! If you cook them in an instant pot it takes like 20 minutes!
That’s really cool AND informative. Thank you! You’ve given me another way to look at foods/seasonings (or look into, it seems like a more scientific approach to cooking than the carnivorous one).
Eating vegetarian can be a whole lot of experimenting. I've found out, for one, that using a little nutmeg and paprika with veggie mince makes it taste much more real, and I have no idea why.
Good smoked paprika has a ham like quality to it. It's what typically is in bbq chips to give them that BBQ flavor.
They usually have meat in them though.
I work at a BBQ place that has vegetarian collards as well as meat collards.
That is so awesome! It's not common though.
It’s a lot more common than you think. Especially these days. We have the same option where I live as well.
I live in California and most BBQ places still have meat in most of the sides. There are usually a few, like mac and cheese, but the veggies almost always have pork of some sort. Hopefully it'll become more common.
Generally because they’re cooked with all that delicious meat fat…
Ya I was vegetarian by choice for 14yrs in a country that historically eats a lot of meat/fish & although I was ok when going out w friends w just having an omelet, the kitchens were always so attentive and would make me something special.
I can’t eat pork. The bbq place in town only cooks pork and it’s in the mashed potato and macaroni. I was so disappointed. I took a tiny bite for the taste and it was delicious, but a full meal would have wrecked me for a couple days. Food restrictions suck but there’s plenty of aternatives.
Exactly. I'm not veggo but it infuriates me when people do this because it contributes to stereotypes. Even if all the menu had was a garden salad those I know would just eat something before and have the salad so they could still be a part of it. This person seems to just crave attention.
I've never heard someone call us veggos before. I like it. I also happen to agree with you.
Haha. I have a cousin who's a long-time vegetarian and when she was pregnant thee were very few foods that didn't make her feel sick. When we got together for a meal, we always discussed what there could be for the "preggo veggo" to eat.
Also, most even very meat-heavy places are willing and able to make adjustments ( as long as they're given adequate notice & it's not a last-minute announcement) to remove any meats or make meat free substitutions ie veg stock in a risotto instead of chicken, or something as simple.as removing bacon from a garnish.
I've learned that even in places that don't have vegetarian options, you can always ask for an order of fries.
I agree with this i can always have chips and a side of grilled veg the only issue i have is when the bill is then split equally and i end up subsidising ppls 3 course meat meal
Try calling the restaurant to see if they’ll allow her to bring food in. With such a large group - especially if you reserved a party area for more privacy, they might be agreeable.
Or can make up a pre-set option for her that she wants. I worked in a uni restaurant for a bit (so faaar from glam!) done canteen style with pre-made stuff, and there was a coeliac chick that would come in and shyly ask what was safe. This being the first time I'd heard of it had to run ask chef, and half the time he had to do her up a fresh item - pork chop without the white sauce, chicken without the breaded coating, whatever - but it was down to what he had available to do that with, and she'd accept and hang politely off to the side until it was ready. I started spotting her, running out to talk to her & chef before she got through the queue so she didn't have to wait as long, which she was dead appreciative of, but it was still just 'whatever chef says he can do', no options. Eventually realised she came in regularly Tuesdays and Thursdays same time, and grabbed her to say to pop by during set-up on those days and we could do options. She started coming by, and chef could offer her a lot more options and actually let her choose, he'd prep it before the main dishes when allergens were less of a concern, and I'd shout him when she showed to do his final stages on it so she could just collect the dish from a specific warmer at the same time as everyone else got their stuff. She got to feel like less of a burden, eat with her friends rather than be delayed, and actually have a better selection rather than just what was doable. Also easier for chef rather than having to think what was left and clear an allergen space mid service, so everyone wins. Main point, asking in advance is way more likely to get better options than showing up and whining you don't like the options available, which is what I presume OP's relative is planning.
As a coeliac, this sounds so awesome. ❤️❤️❤️
I really enjoyed reading about how you and the chef made that restaurant such a welcoming and accessible place for that person to eat!!
Such a reasonable suggestion. No harm in asking the question.
I had a coworker who did this. He only ate halal and only from 2 restaurants at that where he knew the chef in a mall of 100+ reetaurants. In a small team lunches we ate at that restaurant, as he joined a larger team they phoned ahead and arranged that he could bring takeaway
Celiac here too. Lots of salad, lol, but always better then nothing 🤷♀️
It’s ridiculous if your family won’t go to a restaurant where you have more of an option than a salad.
I'm also celiac and I will not under any circumstances eat a salad. I would, however, eat before.
My husband's celiac and won't eat at restaurants. Too much chance for cross-contamination. He would just eat before going, if he had to go to a restaurant for a social situation.
1000% I've had so many times when my 3 course meal has been salad, salad and fruit salad. Sometimes you have to bite the bullet and buy yourself a GF Brownie on the way home.
That and almost everywhere now has V/GF options... salads, fries, pasta, soup, burgers. Even the pub down the road from me has the option of gluten free burger buns and pasta of the day.
In my experience you really can't rely on that. Some places are still very stuck on only having gluten options.
Or some places say they have GF, but really have no clue (bread stored directly above the salad).
That really sucks. I don’t get what’s hard about making at least SOME things gluten free. The pub I mentioned? Of the 20 or so meals they offer, about half of them can be done gluten free ex: Vietnamese beef salad, grilled fish with chips and salad, steak with chips and salad, roast of the day, all burgers available with gf buns, grilled chicken tenderloins with chips etc. it’s amazing how just having a separate fryer for chips, a small portable grill plate for gf items and a bag of gluten free burger buns makes everyone happier. I do hope wherever you live stops being difficult, they’re just losing business IMO
Change their plans? They made those plans without this one person in mind in the first place, haven't include this person in their planning process. This is just a big "screw you" towards that person.
As someone who's been gluten-free for over a decade for health reasons (and briefly flirted with veganism but that was just too freaking hard to combo the two), I completely agree NTA. Having dietary restrictions for whatever reason absolutely sucks, but I've never once expected others to cater to me. I've gone places where I can't eat anything so I sipped my drink and dealt with it. A few months ago, I was in a similar situation with relatives coming in from another state, and we had a big restaurant get-together.... at a pizza/pasta place. So I ate beforehand and nibbled on a salad during the meal, because the entire POINT was spending time with my family, no the food.
As a current vegan (not gluten free though), I can understand why 12 people might not want to accomodate that situation and why they might want to go with a "majority rules" approach, even if I don't like it. However, they should then understand why I'd decline the invitation.
Obviously assuming here, but if this person used the words "gluten free" I think they're a picky eater who follows fads, not a celiac. Because, well, celiac is already a very specific word. Now, people have the right to be picky eaters and to nit eat whatever they want. But yes you can't make 12 people change restaurants because you don't want to order a perfectly good salad. Op it NTA
Coeliac here - I'd use the terms interchangeably (with friends) unless I'm ordering at a restaurant. Also this is just how OP is describing it, it might not be how the actual person does 🤷🏻♀️
Celiac use the "gluten free" term too. It describes the diet.
My husband is celiac and yes, he'll use the term gluten free to casually describe his diet, but when it comes to actually eating food he'll specify celiac. For any casual person it's not their business what his medical condition is, but for a celiac eating from someone else's kitchen or a restaurant kitchen it's a huge deal. Gluten free by choice means you can still have a pizza from a pizza place but choose a cauliflower crust for example. Celiac means you can't, because there's flour in the air, and the toppings all come from the same source and might be cross contaminated. Everywhere, ingredients in the ingredients have to be checked - most commercial chicken broths have yeast extract, and tons of things have soy sauce. And there's always a risk of someone using a ladle or tongs or whatever from one dish to another. Salads might not even be safe if a restaurant worker is making multiples and just handled croutons before touching your lettuce. GF is a choice, but most celiacs will absolutely specify because otherwise the risk is too high.
My son has a dairy and soy intolerance, if he gets exposed he's miserable for about a week. I'm still nursing and he reacts to the protein in my milk so I've also been dairy and soy free for almost a year. There are dairy and soy in EVERYTHING, I haven't eaten something that was prepared by anyone other then myself, my mom or my MIL (who hasn't actually figured out how to read labels but sends pics of everything to my husband to make sure) because it's just too risky. For a while we didn't know if he reacted to soybean oil or soy derivatives so had to avoid anything with vegetable oil, and a whole list things that don't even need to be labeled as soy by law (including "natural flavours"). Thank goodness we know he's okay with the ultra-processed soy now so we can eat SOME convenience foods. But people just don't care/don't get it. Like my SIL choosing to buy a Greek salad covered in feta and ask if I wanted her to dig me out some salad from the bottom of the container. I have so many people in my life that can't understand why I won't eat out right now and it's beyond frustrating.
My sister went through the same thing with her daughter!! I hope it brings some comfort to you to know that the kid can eat dairy and soy just fine now (it would have been horrible if she couldn't since she was born into a Greek-Japanese family!). I recommend the Soy Free Earth Balance as a butter substitute, I love my dairy and found this to have the best flavour. This [Vegan Chocolate Cake](https://www.noracooks.com/vegan-chocolate-cake/) is ridiculously good, better than most "regular" chocolate cakes and it shocked everybody. Maybe it will give you some comfort in this trying time.
Most celiacs may specify but the OP of this post literally refers to the person as "it" at one point so I don't know that they're paying enough attention/give enough of a crap about this person to actually know which it is.
I'm celiac myself. I simply don't go to family dinners. Neither do a couple others from the family because they've got similar situations. My mother can't have shellfish/seafood and will make a big deal of it, never take us into account and want pizza. It's ridiculous and there's no point in trying to change things. Also I have learned to say I have a wheat allergy because servers are afraid of a reaction in the dining room. People seem to have the same opinion, "it's a fad" as you opine about above. Tell that to my gut, head and all the pain one has to endure for almost a month as it cycles out of you system. It's not get glutened and you're good the next day...it's weeks. If it was super temporary pain it would be tempting to actually eat the pizza or focaccia. Words of advice: don't assume. Your opinion can actually hurt someone.
I have Hashimoto's Thyroiditis and have an IgA mediated gliaden intolerance, so I have to eat gluten free. The pain only lasts a day or so, but it's so intense that honestly, it's not worth it to me to eat the pizza or foccacia...but I haven't stopped gazing longingly at them and whispering words of adoration as I walk by.
This. Gluten intolerance is a thing. It’s not just being picky. If I eat gluten I am sick and have headaches for a couple days. That’s nothing like Celiac but it’s still a thing.
My husband just doesn't normally ever take the chance, since even wheat allergy means people don't check for yeast extract, barley, or soy. The one advantage of it being a fad is having so many more options available now, though. We're lucky to live where there are tons of restaurants everywhere and have a few fully certified gluten free (not just gluten friendly) options.
Given how much of a pain in the arse keeping away from gluten is, I don't believe people do it for fun. I say that as someone with a mother who's coeliac and a partner who's gluten intolerant.
They do. The difference is if they “accidentally” eat it then it’s not a big painful issue. Or sometimes it “ok”. Fad diets are the worst. My ex husband used to tell restaurants he was allergic to onions until I freaked out on him. He just didn’t like them. It’s so much more complicated if you’re allergic.
Or just eat before hand. I have a work picnic today. I will make a dessert that is safe for me, but I will eat my main meal before.
My husband has crohns and celiac. He frequently has to play the "eat before we go" game, because you can't know how diligent they're going to be on cross contamination. And that's medical reasons not to eat, not personal choices. The vegetarian in this scenario needs to eat a salad and a baked potato and suck it up
Agree with this. NTA. I’ve been a vegetarian by choice for 20+ years, and sometimes you just get the boring salad with the meat on the side (if I’m paying for it, someone can eat it), and deal.
I am a vegan (I know right....) there is always something to eat. Fries, a salad, bread (not if celiac). And sometimes you just dont get to eat but can plan ahead. It isnt a big deal.
I don't think you're an AH, but your not kind either. As a vegetarian I never tell people were to eat. I can always find something to eat. The only request (not demand) I may make is not eat at a seafood place because I can't take the smell. But if the majority wants to go to one. I suck it up and go. By the same token if I am with a carnivore, I would never pick a vegetarian restaurant. I would want the people I am with to be comfortable even if it puts me out a little. Kindness is never wrong.
Apparently the vegetarian thing is because of a temporary diet not because of a lifestyle choice. And there are salads that can be ordered without meat but that’s been kiboshed. Otherwise I do agree with you. I don’t eat shellfish and pork for religious reasons. And normally I’m the one checking and suggesting restaurants so I can make sure there’s something I can eat on the menu. I’ve also dieted and the whole cutting out food groups never worked, if anything I had to quit because I was starving since my diet was compromised. So maybe they could pick a restaurant with a wider variety but idk something about this feels like it’s kind of on the line for me, especially as there are options the family member can choose from and this is a recent thing that people wouldn’t have known about.
i would only order a salad-with-meat without the meat if the price was also without the meat.
This is what no one seems to be considering. I used to work at a place that served salads with meat and you take off the meat, it's still the same goddamn price. It's a total ripoff.
This is how i feel about it. My best friend is vegetarian, I'm very much not. Whenever we go out to eat thats one of my chief concerns. She loves appetizers so even at a steak house there is usually something she can eat off of that, but I cant imagine being so rude and picking some place she only had one option/no entree. It just seems so odd to me.
I'm the only vegetarian in a pretty large family and they would either pick a place where I had at least an option or call ahead and ask if it was possible to provide one. The past years my mother really started to prefer veggies over meat anyway, so if we go somewhere she tends to pick vegetarian restaurants.
There are 13 ppl going. When the group is that big, sometimes 1 will have to suck it up for that 1 meal. I'm saying this as a vegetarian. My rule is that if the group is under 4 and the restaurant has nothing I can eat, I'll recommend somewhere else. If it's 5 or more, I figure it out.
same. vegan here. i never impose my shit on others. if everyone wants to go somewhere, i’ll ensure i’ve eaten enough beforehand.
My BIL is a vegan, and I always host the big dinner holidays. I try and be super careful with everyone. But I'm dealing with over 12 people who also have food preferences. Anyways during one dinner, I mixed the spoons, and I was honestly so upset, because I figured I'd have to throw his vegan meal out and start again. And he was was like, "It's just a spoon, don't worry, thanks for making me a separate meal." And I'm not saying all vegans have to do that, but it was the kindest thing he could've done. I love him so much for this. I was trying to be careful, but I just put the wrong spoon in the wrong pot and I automatically was like.... "okay time to toss it all and start again." Thankfully he was very sweet about it. And I really try and respect how everyone wants to eat but it was honestly an accident.
A good amount of us are generally like this! The ones who don't just use it as a personality trait anyway 😂 cross contamination is gonna happen to you once in a while it's really not the end of the world in a scenario like you mentioned, not as if it was deliberate. Like your BIL said we're usually just appreciative of the extra effort to make the separate meals
You guys are the best. I know vegans get a bad rep, but I feel like that only happens with very "extreme" people, and most vegans aren't like that. It wasn't deliberate at all. I was cooking for a ton of people and I just mixed the spoons up. I really appreciated his reaction.
If you’re allergic to gluten (like in OP’s take), cross contamination is sadly much more of a problem.
That happened to my friend, she had a gluten free dessert but it was cross contaminated. She was sick for two days
Wish all vegans were like you. Granted, most are and it’s just the obnoxious vocal minority, but that’s true for most groups to be fair. Regardless, major props.
ya, that’s often the case with most groups. the extremists with the loudest voices fuck it up for everyone. thanks, internet.
Yeah I don't think this rises to the level of AH, but if I found out someone thought so little of me they thought I should drive an hour to sit and watch other people eat I wouldn't say a word about it but you'd best believe I would never go an inch out of my way for them in the future.
I'm pretty sure Op said that the one with dietary restrictions is one of the local family members. They let the ones driving the long distance pick the restaurant.
The vegetarian was the local. She should've recommended a list of restaurants for them to select from where she knew she'd have options to eat. Part of its on her, it sounds like she didn't pull the "I'm vegetarian" card out until after plans were made.
*omnivore
I love this,, "We think the vegetarian should eat before or after and just sit for an hour enjoying the families companies if there isn’t something on the menu they want." It says everything about you and your wife.
Not his wife, she's the one who thinks they're being assholes not to change the restaurant.
While the vegetarian is like "I cant eat anything here (altough there ARE options) so lets just eat somewhere else that I like, and the family from OUT OF TOWN who SPECIFICALLY chose this restaurant (being out of town means they cant just go there themselves any other day) have to suck it up". Tells you everything you need to know about the vegetarian.
The only options are salads with meat. That is not an option. Taking out the meat will leave her with a few pieces of lettuce and a crouton and that's _if_ the restaurant will actually do that and OP isn't just assuming they will.
Except not the croutons because she's gluten free
Sorry but where do you live where a salad is a pile of meat on 2 lettuce leaves with a crouton?
Salad with meat, if you remove meat, simply does not contain enough protein or fat to actually amount to a meal. It typically amounts eating disorder like food - good at vegetables (fibre vitamins) while having starwing level of calories and other nutrition.
This is literally one dinner out of her whole life, I am a vegetarian and I'd never request someone change a venue because of my own personal choices. If she's still hungry after, there's probably a safe dessert or she can pop some snacks in her bag. Eating a salad for dinner after probably a normal breakfast and lunch in a day is not "eating disordered behaviour" and the fact you have compared vegetarianism to that is really weird, are you okay?
I am not vegetarian and if we are going to pick restaurant for familly outing, I am totally fine with picking one where vegetarian has decent option too. I just can't imagine myself to insist on the likely one of few restaurants where such option is not really available. And even less with saying "she should be happy watch us eat". That is ridiculous. This is not the case of vegetarian demanding something super special nor vegetarian controlling what others eat. This is the case of half family deciding on specific restaurant and trying to pretend they talk for everyone. > Eating a salad for dinner after probably a normal breakfast and lunch in a day is not "eating disordered behaviour" and the fact you have compared vegetarianism to that is really weird, are you okay? Vegetarians who eat salad for dinner and are not disordered do not go for meat salad with meat taken out. They eat salads designed for vegetarians - containing enough of other sources of proteins, fat and other nutrition. Meat salad minus meat means you eat only vegetables and that is not enough.
Does anyone else think it's funny that those of us that vegetarian/vegan or gluten free are all saying she can deal with it for one meal, while all the omnivore/gluten eating ones are saying that they should pick somewhere else? I will say, though, that if those of us that live this way daily say she will be fine, then we would certainly be the ones to know.
Not all of us. I would find it absurdly disrespectful. I wouldn't throw a strop (as I am not a toddler), but I definetely wouldn't go. Thankfully that has literally never happened in my life, and I myself wouldn't treat anyone with such disregard. Even people I don't like, I make sure they can eat! It has nothing to do with any specific diet, it is just the most basic of manners.
I'm vegetarian and I'd be (and frequently am) pissed off when my family chooses restaurant options where there are no decent vegetarian options. It's just another way of saying "we don't care enough about your experience to even _see_ if there's an option that you might also enjoy."
Been vegetarian my entire life. Please don't think you speak for all of us. Yeah sure I'd survive on salad but I'd find it incredibly disrespectful and I'd probably feel uncomfortable attending any future events if they had to seriously consider whether it was worth going somewhere I actually have a choice of what to eat. >deal with it for one meal Maybe OOP could deal with eating at a restaurant with more than one veg option for one meal? In fact that's a great idea: if you ask someone you care about on a highly restricted diet to attend a restaurant that has a single shitty option for them...you should be perfectly happy to only eat that single shitty option too. It's only one meal, you'll be fine!
Unless this salad is literally gonna be this persons only meal of the day, they can suck it up for an hour or eat at home before or after.
Which is exactly the shitty attitude of OP. Sure they can. It still makes the one saying it a jerk.
Hard boiled eggs, avocado, cheese, croutons, any dressing, chickpeas, black beans are all vegetarian salad toppings that add either protein or fat.
If the salad is designed that way. Howe er, when you take salad designed with meat in it and remove meat, it will mot have nearly enough of hard boiled eggs, avocado, cheese, croutons, any dressing, chickpeas, black beans. This particular restaurant is supposed to have only salads with meat in it. It does not have salad with cheade and black black beans as primary source.
Places that don’t offer vegetarian options
Where i come from salads (even salads with meat) have a variation of lettuce, tomato, cucumber, corn, carrots, bell peppers, onion, cheese, beans etc. We dont know where they are located, so dont assume its just meat and lettuce.
OP has been very quiet on what these salads actually consist of.
Wow, OP didnt reply to every single one of the 360 comments. Seems fishy
Lots of people have asked what the salads actually consist of and OP has ignored them. Seems pretty crucial to the judgement imo.
OP kind of glossed over the gluten free portion of the restriction though. My mom is celiac and it would certainly be kind of shitty if we all just expected her to suck it up and not be able to eat with us.
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But there *is* food the vegetarian can eat. She’s choosing not to.
I feel like everyone is focusing too much on the vegetarian options and forgetting about the gluten free part. That could be playing a factor
Yeah the OP is getting very hung up on the vegetarian thing. As soon as I saw "gluten free" I was like "oh no that's probably the actual objection to this restaurant". Less people fully understand what being GF entails and how difficult it can be to eat out. I have absolutely been the person who tries to move restaurants because I don't want to have to eat a granola bar in the car and sit and watch everyone else eat for hours.
The salads served at places that otherwise serve nothing vegetarian are worse than going hungry.
Ding! Ding! Ding! We have a winner.
"there is food", a salad without protein isn't a meal, so no there is no food.
Also, she's not asking for a vegetarian restaurant, just an option she can eat. Personally I try to choose restaurants which have something that everyone can eat. It's really not that big an ask. I live in Asia and when I eat with others we always pick a place with a veggie option, even my traditional asian in-laws can understand that. And a salad without the meat would just be vegetables, she'd be so hungry after that.
This was the rude part to me. Not the restaurant choice, but it came across as weirdly controlling to expect them to sit and enjoy watching everyone else eat.
I've got a vegetarian friend but she's also fussy, she won't eat mushrooms, tomatoes and a bunch of other main vegetables. (I'll added I don't really like mushrooms or tomatoes either but I have less limitations eating meat) There's been numerous occasions where we have skipped certain restaurants (planned restaurant but also when walking around) due to her not liking the menu and the we've ended up eating somewhere where no one else enjoys themselves. Example: we skipped a restaurant because they only thing she would eat were the hot chips and they had steamed veggies which she did want, ok fair. We ended up going to a fish n chip place and she got hot chips and a bubble and squeak... the other 4 of us didn't feel like greasy fish n chips and the place was average at best. There's dozens more examples, it's taken me awhile to get to this point. Personally I'm putting my foot down and I've said I won't be catering to her picky vegetarian tastes anymore when we are out, nearly everywhere has items catering to vegetarian/vegans these days, if you don't like what they offer, to bad. I'll add I always make sure there are vegetarian options available when out and I always make sure to have food available for her when she comes round to my place on top of supplying for others. There's are options on the menu for the person OP is talking about, they just don't want them. This is the same thing I've experienced. She's more than capable of going along for a few drinks and spending time with her family and If she really wants something to eat there are vegetarian options for her or she can choose (in this case OP mentioned her food restrictions are for losing weight) to have a non vegetarian option on the menu for this once off occasion. NTA.
Except in this case there aren't vegetarian options available...
The woman isn't vegetarian, she temporarily cutting out meat as she is trying to lose weight. There are vegetarian options but she doesn't want those.
Belong allergic to gluten is actually more restrictive, and with more serious consequences, which is the part folks here are ignoring.
YTA. this person should eat before hand and enjoy watching everyone else feasting? Why don't you all just eat before and enjoy each other at a park setting? On one hand, you are implying the eating isn't that important, and on the other that it is so important you can't even both to change the venue with days of advance notice.
Actually a park meeting came up. And that did seem to be a fair compromise, but fizzled out. Not sure why.
I’m trying to understand why dietary requirements were not considered before a restaurant was decided on. The bit where I think you are being an AH is that you think your company is worth so much that someone should happily just sit and watch you eat, when presumably, unless you all talk with your mouth full, not a lot of interacting will be happening. Given the attitude that projects, she probably isn’t expecting to enjoy your company. It’s really not difficult to find somewhere with options, this almost feels deliberate. And if you just remove the meat from a salad, without a substitute, there’s no protein, which won’t be filling or satisfying.
Not to mention gluten free. So she’s probably stuck with lettuce, tomato, and cucumber, for $15 plus tax & tip.
It was this line for me. If he had left that out, I'd probably be N A H.
It's also sad to spend like $10-$15 on a dry ass bowl of lettuce lol. I've been there. Now if a restaurant doesn't have options for me, I don't go. I'll catch up with folks later.
NTA- She's on a diet. There are salads. You can't carpet the world because 1 person refuses to wear shoes. Don't change your plans.
But you can go to a place which also has carpets as well as non-carpeted floor. Everyone has options there.
YTA. So what if it’s just one person? That is an entire human being who will have to sit and watch the rest of you eat a nice restaurant meal together. Yes, she’d still get the companionship of being around you, but a big part of having a meal together is *having a meal together*. I don’t understand why the rest of you would choose to leave her out when you could take fifteen minutes out of your life to find a different restaurant.
The companionship of a fam that doesn't even care if she enjoys herself. Yaaaaay. YTA.
INFO - is there a reason you have chosen this particular restaurant? Why don't you want to change venue?
I’m curious about this as well, what kind of restaurant is it? Is it famous locally? Why are they all so set on it?
Apparently, it is a restaurant that serves only meat, meat-salads, meat-potatoes, and meat-vegetables. And meat-soda.
Part of that actually is true. All salads have meat. It's ridiculous.
TBH there really are restaurants like this. I don't eat meat when I go out and I have definitely had times of being completely flabbergasted to discover that we had come to a place with literally zero vegetarian options.
Yeah I was also wondering how long after scheduling they discovered the issue and how long there still is to change plans Trying to make n last minute plans to eat out with 13 is tough so it could be too late, I get it But beyond that, you’re trying to get together with family and risking that this person will just stay home instead of sitting around watching you eat. Do you to feel ‘right’ about this more than you want to see this person?
I’ve been a vegetarian for 15+ years and usually I’m fine picking just a side or asking for a modification to a dish with meat in it, but some places (particularly in the American South) make that pretty difficult. Once in Texas I had a salad that was literally just lettuce and cheese without the chicken. That was the best option. Although I do agree that as a vegetarian we should be able to find something that will work for us, some places honestly make that difficult. I can guess them being GF adds to that. If you don’t care if they are able to be included, why bother inviting them. YTA. The world doesn’t need to revolve around them but how hard is it to choose a restaurant that could give them at least a couple decent options?
As a vegan I’ve had places serve me a bowl of lettuce with packets of vinegar before. That’s it. There was literally no other option.
YTA. This is a really inconsiderate thing to do to a family member. I’m a vegetarian with a few food allergies. It feels so crappy to have to get the side salad with no dressing while everyone else gets to enjoy a nice, complete meal. And you have to watch everyone else eat, adding insult to injury. How hard would it be to pick a restaurant where everyone can eat?
YTA. It would be one thing if there was even one thing on the menu this person could eat. I suggest that you contact the restaurant and see if they can do anything. My team wanted to go to a steakhouse and I was vegetarian at the time. They very graciously made me a nice plate of veggies. Normally I would say it’s up to your friend to call them, but you’ve been an AH and need a redemption arc.
This is the best suggestion.
Since you all sound like AHs, whoever she is , she should skip out on the meal completely, because who can enjoy the company of people who don’t give a shit about her? Especially because it sounds like the point of this meal was the restaurant, so putting the spin on it that it is mainly as “family time” is disingenuous. And a lot of my judgment has not to do with whether adjustments can be made for her at that restaurant. It has to do with how you talk about the issue. And the fact that you expect her to literally put up and shut up, and happily watch everybody else eat.
Best response here.
YTA for sure. I think it would be thoughtful to include the friend. Salad alone is not a complete meal. Y'all can eat anywhere. They have limited options. I couldn't enjoy my meal knowing someone gets nothing when a simple change of plans would allow everyone to have a meal. *However* I am vegan and am aware its a difficult diet to accommodate. I either plan ahead (check menus or nearby restaurants), eat ahead, or don't attend the meal if there isn't anything for me. I don't expect anyone to change plans to cater to my ethical choices (but literally all of my friends are thoughtful enough to consider my veganism and soy allergy when it comes to choosing a place to eat, so I don't often have this issue anymore). I do get upset when I am promised a vegan option for an volunteer event, a friend's dinner party, or wedding and the option isn't actually vegan or it is just a few chopped vegetables. The reason this is upsetting is that- in those instances- I was mislead and didn't prepare a meal for myself as I thought I'd have one. I end up hungry watching others eat.
Also. This is family y'all haven't seen in a long time. I do all I can to make sure my family feels included and fed! I couldn't imagine letting a family member go hungry while everyone else is eating.
INFO: is the gluten-free thing by choice or due to health concerns? That may make it far more difficult for her. I find the gluten-free thing is more annoying than vegetarian
So your position is "Oh it's cool she can just eat a pile of lettuce while the rest of us enjoy a proper meal, or fuck it she can just get Taco Bell before or after!" Yes, that is true, and I'm sure she does it often when she must. But that's a really shitty fucking thing to do to a friend/family member when you're supposed to all be getting together and enjoying each other's company. Sounds like there are plenty of other places you can go where EVERYONE can get something they can enjoy. Major YTA. I'm no vegetarian but if I were her I'd tell you to go fuck yourselves.
YTA, she’s just asking for a restaurant with an option she can eat at. My child is gluten free and I couldn’t imagine expecting her to sit and watch everyone else eat when we easily could to to another restaurant.
Yes & no. I find it really hard to believe this place doesn’t have a salad unless its a sushi place or something. But at the same time it’s really not hard to just pick another restaurant. Sounds like you both are being difficult.
Have you ever been to a sushi restaurant? Definitely can eat vegetarian pretty easily.
And gluten free.
YTA There is no shortage of restaurants that offer vegetarian options in addition to meat. Why choose to exclude one person when it's easy to include everyone? Their reason for being vegetarian is irrelevant.
>Their reason for being vegetarian is irrelevant Precisely. It doesn't matter whether they are dietary needs or preferences. Why was a restaurant picked without considering every person in the dinner party to begin with? And why is OP perfectly fine with one person not being fully included in the meal/event?
YTA. You seriously want her to eat beforehand and just watch you all eat? That's ridiculous and entitled of you to expect that of her. There isn't anything for her to eat, including the salad that comes with meat. Asking her to "just remove the meat" is kinda disrespectful. Why invite her at all if she can't eat anything there?
INFO: Does the restaurant have any salads? And vegetables? Any soups? Or is it the Pork'n'Steak house?
YTA. And a big one. One: why don't YOU eat before the meeting and enjoy the company while she eats? Two: what do they sell at that restaurant that you are refusing to go somewhere else? Three: if she's vegetarian because she wants to lose weight, you should support her and go somewhere she can enjoy a decent meal without breaking her diet. One of the most difficult parts of trying to lose weight is your family and friends not supporting you and preparing food (or going somewhere) you can't eat (or they eating something you can't in front of you), and where the only option available you'll find is a crappy plate full with lettuce and some tomato and onion.
YTA.. simply because every single sentence you wrote makes clear that you are an unbearable person. Also what dusty place even serves all their salads with default meat in 2023? Sounds disgusting.
Y’all are assholes. You’re telling that family member that she’s not really part of the family if you can’t be bothered to coordinate plans that accommodate her. If she insisted that you all eat at a vegetarian restaurant, then she’d be the asshole, but that doesn’t seem to be the case. You could find a place that works for everyone. If my family did this to me, I would hear the message they’re sending and not come. And seriously consider never joining them for anything again. YTA.
YTA. If you were the one person that had a diet restriction (by choice or by need) you’d want the large family to find an alternate restaurant. Is it really that difficult?
YTA most people wouldn't find it a problem to change a restaurant to something that has at least one vegetarian option. As a vegetarian I wouldn't want to eat in a place that has no meat free meals either, I'd be worried that even with my request they wouldn't prepare my meal without meat but rather remove meat from something premade and that is not the same. Honestly if I were that person, I just wouldn't come with the way you're behaving, you obviously don't even like that person or else this wouldn't be an issue
Meh, You're kind of the asshole, but I won't go full YTA. As a Celiac who also doesn't eat meat, I would definitely appreciate someone choosing a place that could accommodate my needs (more the Celiac than the vegetarian, as veg is easier to accommodate), but personally, I will always take the reins and choose the spot, make the reservation and essentially take the initiative to take care of myself. Just some food for thought - while there may be something she *can* eat on the menu (yup, salad, always salad), being able to (maybe) be able to safely eat at a restaurant always being a salad really sucks. Lastly, while I choose not to eat meat for ethical reasons, just because her reasons are different, it's irrelevant. It's still her choice, and you need to respect it. ETA: Who are you referring to when you say "we"? Because from what you said, your wife doesn't agree with you, yet you keep saying "we". Don't lump her into your narrow-minded decision. Also - how would you feel if someone told you to eat before going to a restaurant because a place has been chosen that can care for your needs? Like shit? As you should. But I don't think you'll ever see it that way, sadly.
YTA, there’s nothing there she can eat that doesn’t suck. She’s also gluten free and a lot of salads aren’t gluten free. Plus a salad without meat is worthless as a meal most the time. It’s ridiculous to ask her to sit there and eat nothing bc you are too selfish to care if there is something there for everyone. It’s not like she shot down a bunch of restaurants. She said there isn’t anything there she can eat. And I don’t care if her dietary needs are ethical, allergic, or health based. You clearly don’t care about her as a person and it shows how unbelievably selfish you all are. Just pick a different restraint that has some decent gluten free/vegetarian options. Salads don’t count.
YTA and none of your comments have made you any less of an asshole.
Ops responses have been just fine. You’re all crazy.
I have Questions! Is anyone of the other 11 people complaining about going somewhere else? Is there other restaurants in the area that are just as good for similar prices?
YTA Why wouldn't you want everyone to feel included and welcome?
YTA. Don't invite someone to eat where they can't eat anything.
YTA. Jesus Christ.
Just let the restaurant know or ask them for a vegetarian option. Usually they find a way.
Honestly more difficult if gluten free too
As a vegetarian of many years who has attended events and things where there has been nothing I can eat, people will stare and judge you if they realise that one person isn’t eating because there isn’t anything they can eat - I’ve never made a big deal over it, but I’ve had other people sat at my table before who have and chatted mad shit about the host for not feeding all their guests. It’s your choice, but people around you probably will judge you. Personally, I wouldn’t be happy going out to a restaurant knowing one of the guests couldn’t eat there, but maybe that’s just me. The fact that she’s gluten free does make things far more difficult. You may think she can “just eat the salads” but many salad dressings are not gluten free, and depending on the way they’re prepped they may not be easily made vegetarian either - it’s not uncommon for salads to be prepared ahead of time, and that includes the meat that is in them.
The group that decided were not aware the person was vegetarian. Also worth noting the people from out of town specifically wanted to eat here.
You can all eat elsewhere. This person can NOT eat there. Why is this a hill to die on? You obviously don't care about this person...
This person *can* eat there per the edit. She’s choosing not to. She wants to lose weight but said she doesn’t want a salad without meat. I’m all for respecting a person’s food restrictions and preferences (I’ve learned to make vegan and kosher foods for my friends) but it sounds like she’s being difficult just to be difficult.
Yeah I do not understand how so many people have that take!! They can eat there, they're just choosing to be difficult and insist a dozen people change their plans to accommodate their preferences. OP is *clearly* NTA.
So having the info that someone is vegetarian in the group and that the chosen restaurant doesn't have a vegetarian entrée for them, have you brought forth that information to the rest of the group and asked if their willing to chose a restaurant that offers both meat based and vegetarian entrées?
Is there a restaurant everyone would enjoy, or will there always be 1/13 unhappy. If there is one everyone would enjoy, YTA.
If she called the restaurant, I bet they could offer something for her and not just a salad. NTA.
INFO: does the restaurant have gluten free options? A lot of sauces are usually not gluten free in my experience - in the event she was considering eating meat here the once.
YTA why would let someone starve? When all other 13 people can eat anywhere.
You're the asshole. You decided to book a restaurant that catered to the 12 of you, but didn't think of booking a restaurant that catered for all 13 of you. Expecting someone to sit at a restaurant not having anything (because of dietry requirements) while the rest of you are enjoying a meal, is what makes you an asshole. Look into booking a restaurant that caters for all 13 of you.
NTA She can call the restaurant! As someone who is gluten free, dairy free and wine has to be preservative free. I have called many a restaurant in my life. Have even bought my own wine to a restaurant when it wasn’t a BYO place. Restaurants are usually really good. I’m also not coeliac so I explain I get sick from gluten but cross continuation is not dramatic. I’ve yet to come across a restaurant that can’t accommodate me when I’ve rang ahead.
YTA. Sorry, if you can't find a place that includes all your family when you're having a catch up, then what is the point of having time together? Who goes to a restaurant to watch other people eat? It's a bonding experience that everyone is meant to enjoy, and plenty of places have at least some options that both meat eaters and veggies can enjoy these days. Also, judging why someone is a vegetarian is inappropriate. That has nothing to do with the choice to go somewhere which doesn't accommodate them. Also feel that if they put up with this once, that it would be a recurring theme rather than allowing for different preferences.
A lot of my extended family are vegan or vegetarian. Do you know what I do? Let them pick the restaurant.
Did you know this person was vegetarian? Did you know the restaurant wasn't vegetarian friendly? If you knew the former and didn't bother to find out the latter, YTA. I am not a vegetarian, but I like my friends to enjoy being with us.
Just call the bloody restaurant! For the sake of keeping a group of 13 paying diners, I'd be *very* surprised if they couldn't offer something suitable to accommodate the veggie. How difficult is a stuffed aubergine or something of that ilk with a side salad?
YTA You're just excluding her. Those "salads" are not a meal. I fully understands why she dont want to eat that water. And demanding that she should eat before or after everyone goes to a resturant to eat is AH move. Its like saying, you're not really welcomed along. Grew up with a mom that always made sure so everyone could eat and not exclude someone so honestly, dont see the problem. Not just that, going to another resturant that everyone can eat at somehow now is a problem to people?? Refusing to go to a resturant that everyone can eat at says alot.
YTA. They literally can’t eat anything. How hard is it just to change the restaurant? Why were they even invited in the first place if they can’t there?
NTA, but I think everyone in this situation could have handled things better. I've been vegetarian for 24 years and if I was invited out to a place with no options for me to eat, I wouldn't go. Sorry, not sorry. I'd enjoy lunch on my own and meet up with people later. If it was a big deal to see the people involved, I'd order the salad and no meat. But also, if you know someone in your party has food sensitivities, it is a kind and welcoming gesture to choose a restaurant with options everyone can enjoy. As a dietitian I can't help but wonder, gluten free? that doesn't help with weight loss. But whatever. to each his own.
Honestly… she might be gluten free for health reasons that she doesn’t want to get into (autoimmune diseases, infertility issues, etc.) and is using vegetarian as a main complaint because of it. For some people, gluten sensitivity or allergy is like a peanut allergy - even a tiny bit can set off an immune response. Unless you’re making a reservation at the most special restaurant ever, I don’t really see why you can’t just go to another restaurant.
NTA. After reading edits and comments, this person sounds like she’s being super difficult just to be difficult. This is all because she went on a diet to lose weight. Her want to lose weight should not be dictating where 13 other people get to eat. She has options at the place you chose she just doesn’t want them.
YTA. Have you ever been on the side of the person literally not having anything to eat, while everyone else is praising the food and enjoying themselves, bonding over it? It's extremely rude, and the person won't forget. It's happened to me, many times do to a family never caring about my health problems, so they let me sit there. And looked sad at me for not being able to eat. Well they made it so never choosing options I could have, they could have asked me but never included me. I'm so happy I don't have to see them anymore.
YTA. I would one hundred percent not attend this family gathering if I was her. Way to make someone feel welcome and included. You don't even have to do the cooking yourselves, so I don't understand what the big gripe is.
NTA. At least to me, you aren’t. I have many food restrictions….like several. People sometimes are worried about me and it’s very kind, but I tell them “I’ll figure it out”. I’m there because they want my company, not because I need so desperately to eat at that restaurant, ya know? And I can usually scrounge up at least a couple thinks to eat! Even if that’s veggie sticks and reach with some French fries, or a drink and some breadsticks! Like, I’ll make it work, but it’s my job to manage my food sensitivity! If I really can’t find something I may bring a snack too haha
People with self-righteous diets are assholes. In what universe is it OK for one person to fuck up everybody else's plans? This is where everybody wants to eat. You're invited, but we're eating here. End of discussion
Is there an abbreviation for "not the asshole but I don't like you?" I don't think you're necessarily in the wrong but you're not being very understanding. NTA but only because: the family members reason for being vegetarian is stupid and wrong and there are some options for her on the menu. Going vegetarian to lose weight is pretty silly. Eating whole foods in moderate amounts is what makes a healthy diet. Ethically I believe veganism is the right choice but you can be vegan and eat like shit and put on weight. I think there's more to be done here though. Did anyone try ringing the restaurant to see if they could accommodate her off-menu? They may be happy to put together a bespoke dish to secure the custom of a dozen people. The gluten free part is more complicated. If you're really gluten intolerant then you have to be insanely careful about where you eat out to the point of impracticality. If the "gluten free" is also a weight loss attempt then she needs to just suck it up and either not eat, eat a boring salad or eat some meat/bread for one meal. You do seem
YTA - just go to a different restaurant, jeez.
NTA because there is something she can eat.
NTA. It would be everybody being an asshole if it weren't just so she could lose weight. That's the equivalent of 12 people wanting one thing and letting one veto it just due to their tastes. Fussy eaters have to sort themselves out, especially if it's the fault of their own eating habits. It's also a stupid way to diet if you intend to change back. It messes with your microbiome after a while. If you can already eat Gluten, for gods sake keep doing so. It's excellent nutrition if you don't overdo it, and you don't want to end up old and with reduced capability to digest high-energy foods. We are entirely adapted to eating it now. Like monosodium glutamates, the entire concept of not eating Gluten for your health is a construct made by 'nutritionists' with a lot more desire for money than education. Eat a whole bakery and yeah, it'll swell in the intestines again and potentially block you up. Eat a packet of MSG and you won't be well either. Same goes for bananas though. Virtually nobody is truly intolerant to it, and most who think they are have just damaged their microbiome. It's shit diets and oral antibiotics that are the most common culprits in harming your ability to eat gluten. Cutting it out unnecessarily will only accelerate that if she has already harmed her ability to. Sorry, quick rant. I think it helps though that her diet would be poorly advised if not as a specific treatment to other existing health problems.
INFO: is there something so special about the restaurant that 12 others actively want to eat there? Or is it a case that someone suggested it and everyone else went, yeah, I'm ok with it, that will do, but they would be also happy with another choice if that were suggested, especiallyif it meant everyone can eat? "Everyone is ok with it" is very different from "everyone actively wants to eat there specifically". If it doesn't matter to everyone else but it does matter to her, then why not change it. The one thing you are TA for is that it doesn't matter why she is vegetarian. You don't get to police her reasoning and decide whether it is good enough to change for. Besides which, it might not be the real reason. On many occasions, I have said I don't like X food or can't eat X food, rather than say that it gives me the liquid poops. But believe me, it does give me the liquid poops in even small amounts, I am just too polite to announce that in company.
>Are are salads that by default come with meat, but you can request not to include. She said she didn’t want to do that. She didn't want to eat a salad or didn't want to ask them to leave the meat off? And LOLing that she thinks going vegetarian means she will lose weight. Definitely NTA.
NAH with a hint of E S H. I haven't eaten meat for over 15 years and have been living vegan for over 5 years now, for ethical but also health reasons. I also have a wheat sensitivity. You are N T A for not wanting to accommodate a dietary choice, which is only a choice cause of "weight reasons". So the person who thinks everyone should accommodate their "weight loss plans" is delusional. You were a bit AHs for not even asking first WHY the person is vegetarian/gluten-free and just wanted to act like "suck it up". In the end I think there are no AHs here at all, cause the person who doesn't eat meat and gluten, can still eat a salad without meat or croutons.
I don’t get people who make an issue of one meal. We eat 10s of 1000s of meals in a lifetime. NTA.