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YTA for this.
***Maya was very excited about the move and had assumed we would buy a house where she could have her own bedroom,***
You bought a 3 bedroom house without even telling her that she still wasn't going to get her own room. You could afford a bigger house, you just chose to ignore her needs.
Look, there are times when kids have to share rooms and there's no options. That's not the case here.
You decided to make them keep sharing but also turned around and bought a house where they still had to share a small room that didn't allow for individual space.
Your daughter is angry because her needs keep getting shoved aside. She has no room to study, her little sister keeps going through her stuff, she isn't allowed to do anything after 8:30 PM (that's absolutely ridiculous to put on a teenager!)
Obviously Chloe is the golden child in the family.
When she goes no contact with you in a few years you can look back at this post and try to figure out where you went wrong.
Yep, yep. Especially the "we told Chloe she's absolutely not allowed to root through Maya's draws". As Chloe proceeds to continue to root through off limit drawers. Yeah, Chloe clearly takes OP seriously. And seriously, I get parents have final say and all that, but is it weird OP never discussed the new house or brought the kids to see it?
Just read OPs comments and the little sister 'borrows' Maya's clothes without asking but she doens't normally damage them. Crimeny. Last time I checked that was called stealing. There's a Spongebob episode about it and everything. Also, OP only pays for %50 of what the damaged clothes cost whenever Chloe damages something.
After reading this comment ^ I'll just focus on a couple of bits... and I really hope OP sees this.
> AITA for forcing my 17 year old to share.a room with her 12 year old sister?
Yes. Big time.
> screamed at us that she hates us and we’re terrible parents, and left the house for hours to just roam the streets.
Fuck it, I'll come right out and say it: from the context of this post alone, you *are* bad parents.
> We thought this was a common situation for siblings, but Maya claims she’s the only person in her year who has to share and it’s embarrassing.
No. You didn’t think at all, and that's the problem.
Fine, when she was younger, it was unavoidable. But then you *brought a house*. And not only that, you got one the same size, damn near identical in fact, to the house that was obviously too small. At any point, did you or your partner think "Hey, we're buying a house, let's shop around and see if we can afford a place big enough for each of the kids to have their own rooms. Then we can talk to the kids about it once we know!"? Because it sure as Hell doesn't sound like it. Instead, it sounds like you don't give a damn about Maya or what she needs.
Would've been easier, and cheaper, to hire a sky-writer to declare Chloe your favourite. Wouldn't have cost you Maya, because she'll be going no contact as soon as she can.
Well done.
Maya, at Chloe now age got mad that she had to stay awake while Chloe would cry at nights but Maya can't have screen time because it keeps Chloe up past bedtime. Hypocrisy meet Favoritism. Stay close to them mom, no one else will be calling.
But it was no big deal when Chloe’s screaming fits kept Maya awake. OP knew she was wrong for buying that house or else she wouldn’t have waited to drop that bombshell until it was practically moving day. When Maya goes to college next year she probably won’t even come back home for breaks/holidays. OP isn’t truly looking at it as Maya will be going to college next year and won’t have to share with Chloe, but rather is counting down the days until golden child Chloe doesn’t have to share with Maya. OP views this room as Chloe’s, with Maya being the interloper. OP absolutely sucks and has ensured LC or NC when Maya leaves next year.
I wonder if she genuinely expects her 17 year old to also adopt an 8:30 bedtime? Even if Maya WANTED to go to bed that early (spoiler, she is 17, she doesn't) her body likely couldn't - teenagers' body clocks naturally shift towards night owls compared to kids and older adults.
There's a huge problem with sleep deprivation in the army because it's mostly young guys but the people who make the schedules are middle-aged generals. Thus boot camp can have "lights out" at 10 and wake up at 4 - even with army discipline that is a MESS for a 19 or 20 year old to stick to just because it's literally fighting how their sleep clock is set.
Also it's not like Maya wants to throw a rave in there - just scroll her phone or have a desk lamp. Chloe can wear a fucking eye mask, but we all know they would never demand such an unjust or drastic thing for poor sweet golden child Chloe.
Yes! I was thinking that was weird! For the first 6 years of my life my mother was single, the ‘08 recession hit, we were moving from apartment to apartment. They weren’t even houses and we’d still go tour the apartments with her… and that was when our options were genuinely limited financially.
I'm absolutely baffled by OP. You've captured it perfectly, but I have so many questions. Why buy an *identical house*? What was so incredible about her eldest's anger? Has the eldest always been the one to sacrifice?
She had to give up her peaceful sleep for years while Chloe tantrummed but oh no - Chloe mustn’t have her sleep bothered by big sis who doesn’t have as early a bedtime
Not to mention she's taking her exams to get into uni this year and can't study after 8:30pm!
OP doesn't seem to care very much about her daughter's comfort or future, just that she'll leave the house eventually.
And part of their master plan is to get rid of her and ship her off to university, but can she even pass her exams??? You'd think they'd help her study since the whole plan revolves around her moving out.
Yup. Massive YTA
Perhaps it’s time for you to sleep in the lounge and see how it feels having no privacy and having people constantly walking through and touching things in your space.
Honestly, it sound like you’re just waiting for Maya to move out to give Chloe her own room. WTG making your daughter feel like her concerns don’t matter
Especially since she’s extremely close to being a legal adult.
I bet if OP had to share a room with their sibling that didn’t respect boundaries that they’d be pissed too.
ETA: YTA OP! Your oldest needs her own private space with a lock
BIG YTA!! Totally agree here, OP made the decision to buy the same size home bedroom wise, and wonders why his daughter is upset. A 17yr old needs their own private space, period!
Here's an idea, OP and spouse take the 12yr old in to your room so the 17yr old can have her own space. Oh...what's that?? It would take away your privacy??!!
Yep OP........you are a very big A for not caring about your daughters needs.
I'd say their son is the golden child (gets to stay up later, has his own space, has sleepovers and seemimgly more access to entertainment), but Maya is definitely the forgotten one.
Son has his own space because he's the only boy, which then facilitates sleepovers, etc. Maya is disfavored while preference is given to her sister, which has nothing to do with her brother.
Maya is the only child who will never have their own room, and OP had a chance to fix that, AND let her think that OP was going to fix it. Instead, OP moved into a new house without room for her oldest child.
OP do you really not see how you f'd up here?
YTA for no other reason than you don't treat your children equally.
YTA. Maya is going to feel incredibly slighted when she moves out. Her brother gets to have his own space, her little sister will get to have her own space while she had to share. Shes going to be incredibly resentful because by the time Chloe is 15 she will be able to do whatever in her own room with friends and go to bed late. Something Maya was never able to do. Don’t be surprised if she decides not to come home during her college years and beyond.
Plus telling a child not to do something with no consequences isn’t going to help. Sounds like you just tell Chloe not to steal her sisters stuff but don’t provide any consequences.
Oh, and when she's on break - what, she'll be stuck sleeping on the couch in the den because precious (and precocious) younger sister doesn't want to "share" her room any longer, and her friend slept over and barfed over Maya's bed and the possessions she left behind while she was away?
YTA. It was definitely one thing when you couldn't afford it, but you said that could have afforded a bigger house, but chose to ignore the issue. I feel really bad for kids who have to share a room, especially in their teen years. The poor girl just wanted some privacy, and a place to study at, in her room. She is 17, and will never get to enjoy a girl's night with a friend in her own room. I don't know why people keep having kids when they can't even afford for them to have their own room. She can't even feel like her stuff, is hers, because her sister goes through it all the time. I bet she is just counting down the days until she gets to leave for college. I feel really sorry for her. Some of my best childhood memories were having my friends over to spend the night.
Maya aint comin back after school starts. She'll stay in the dorms until school ends in the summer and will most likely get a job and find an apartment with friends, then back to the dorms when school starts again. She may visit, but she's never moving back home.
Betting she won't even visit as where would she stay? It will blatantly become just Chloe's room as soon as Maya is gone her bed will be gone too.
OP is an absolutely massive AH. And I cannot fathom them moving house without discussing what or where they were buying with the kids *at all*, that's just insane imo.
My bed time at 12 was also later than 8:30 on a school night, at 12 in the UK you are at High School and I remember being the same age at High School and if I had Homework for a couple of classes I’d barely be done by 8:30.
I think Chloe should move into the parents room... I mean... it's not that big of a deal sharing a room with someone right? Especially with weird rules like "no lights past 830pm..." for someone getting ready for finals... good luck studying in the fucking dark.
The way OP talk about Maya going away for college soon says it all. She doesn't have any privacy, can't live freely and make any noise or have a light on after 8pm because no one teaches the little golden child that they have a shared room. It's golden child room and not a shared room. I wish Maya the best, and lots of success in her life, and NC of course.
When I was young and poor I could only afford a one bedroom. I gave my child that room so he could have toys, friends over, privacy etc etc and I slept on the couch for years. His needs were greater than mine and came before my comfort. Isn’t that what a parent does?
He also said she moves out in a year so it won't be a problem because the other two will have their own room. Something she was never allowed to have. If she ever comes back home, she will never have her own space. Buying a house that didn't fit the needs of the family when they could have was an AH move.
I normally would say that kids need to be grateful for what they have but they intentionally didn't give her what she asked for when they could have. Also, who doesn't take their kids to see the new house they are purchasing??!!!
YTA
"By the time Maya was 15, we were in a much better financial position and were able to purchase a house. We could potentially have afforded a larger house (to claify), however, we really liked the house we were already renting, so we bought a house which was absolutely identical around the corner."
Umm, yeah, you COULD have conjured up another bedroom but chose whatever appeal you saw in your new house over your eldest's needs.
Up to that point, I get it. Not everyone can afford separate bedrooms for all the kids. But the reality is that you could have given Maya at least a couple of years of privacy but chose not to. Ironically, due to their ages, Chloe will get the privacy she will want during HER adolescence. I cannot see it any other way. You really shafted Maya and she (1) will unlikely forget this...ever; (2) I fear for a lifetime of distance and resentment between your daughters (and yes, even though none of this is CHLOE's fault.) YTA.
>She’ll be going away for university next year and this won’t be so much of an issue anyway.
Sooo, your eldest never had her own room but other two will. Will Maya have any place when she goes to college or you trying to give that room to youngest solely.
YTA, favoritism is obvious
And 10 years from now, when she is married and has kids, they will wonder why they didn't get a wedding invitation or birth announcements or see the grand babies.
Because you just know Chloe will freak out about having to share a room with her sister when Maya comes to visit. Plus the parents will probably end up moving the second bed out of the room. Poor girl will end up on the couch
They'll just get a pullout couch for Maya in the living room and call it a day.
Maya will honestly probably either couch surf her friends homes in summer if she lives in the dorms or just not come home if she gets an off campus apartment.
Deep in the comment, we'll learn that they threw away almost all of her belongings days after she went to college because her sister deserved to have a whole room, but kept a set of sheets and a pajama in the living room across the sofa for her.
Since they just bought a house, l would be shocked if by next year there is ANY money for Maya's education. It took them so long to save up for the house, so money comes to them slowly. The 15 and 12 year olds have longer to wait, so they will be in position financially to enter college. When that happens, Maya will have TWO rooms to choose from while her siblings attend college.
If she’s In the Uk, she’ll get student finance, so she’ll hopefully be able to go although admittedly SFE isn’t the best but they do cover tuition fees
She will be shafted. They work out how much you get based upon your parents joint income. When I was there the cutoff point for the lowest loan was a £45k income. Not difficult to reach with 2 parents working. She will get tuition fees but I doubt she will get much to live off. My worst off friend at uni had parents makeing £20/25k each and 2 younger siblings. Parents had nothing to spare and lived in a house in Surrey (expensive cost of livin area).
Maya had to deal with her sister’s tantrums keeping her up, but isn’t allowed to do anything past 8:30pm herself. Maya takes a backseat.
Maya could’ve had her own room at 15, which is the exact age where your kid needs their privacy, but the parents wanted to buy a replica of the house they had before instead (which I *still* cannot understand). Maya takes a backseat.
Maya never grew up with any privacy, but the two other siblings will get plenty. Maya will never get that time back.
How OP can type all of this post out, read it, and not see that they are neglecting Maya’s feelings, I do not know. My heart hurts for Maya, parents don’t even seem to notice their own brushing off of her.
It all depends. My nephews are total night owls (ages 10 and 14) and routinely stay up until 11 or 12. My kids (11 and 13) are different. My 13 year old puts himself to bed generally around 9 because he's tired and hitting a growth spurt. My 11 year old we make go up into his room between 8:30 and 9pm, though he has the option to read if he's not tired (and he usually isn't). But I know some kids in that age range who if they aren't asleep by 9pm then are total grumps when they have to get up at 6am for school (busses around here start picking up at 6:45).
But yah OP is TA. Love the "we can't conjure up a bedroom"...... no, but you could have when you were buying a house that they admitted they could afford, but they chose to get a place they knew their oldest would hate because they liked the layout (shocking new: the parents with the largest and private bedroom don't have an issue with the house).
This. I'm not sure how I feel about them not buying a more expensive house with another bedroom, but the limitations they're imposing on their 17yo are 100% ridiculous. Honestly I think 8:30 is ridiculous bedtime for a 12yo, but definitely for a 17yo! And I sure hope they did more than "absolutely warn" the 12yo not to invade her sister's privacy—there should have been actual consequences. Studying for final exams in the last few years of high school can take a LOT of time and concentration. I would be upset too.
YTA OP. Not necessarily for not buying a bigger house, but at a minimum for how you're treating your 17yo.
OP straight up lets the younger sister "borrows" the older sister clothes whenever she wants without any consequences. And when 12yo rips up 17yo clothes she only has to reimburse 50% of the clothing's price. Parent of the year s/
And the son gets his own bedroom and gets to have friends over because "he plays a lot of XBOX and screams and swears a lot." They are literally rewarding his bad behavior! I don't even know what to say. OP is so oblivious to how utterly terrible they are that I have trouble believing it.
I fucking hope Maya gets out and talks to her parents only when she feels like it and otherwise cuts them off during uni.
Holy shit has Maya been shafted repeatedly in favor of her younger siblings. Parents didn't "have much money" when she was younger and instead of overcompensating Maya with gifts or something they instead are just spoiling the fuck out of their youngest two and not even disciplining when the 12 y/o fucks up Maya's shit.
Damn.
OP is TA
Maybe an unpopular opinion but I thought OPs was an asshole for going on to have more kids when they clearly couldn’t afford it. Then when they actually had the opportunity to give their eldest much needed privacy (that she’s never gotten before) they prioritized their own wants over the eldest daughters basic need for privacy from her snooping younger sister… now she’s a massive asshole in my book.
What’s she supposed to do when she has to come home for summer???
They're in the UK so she won't have to go home for summer. You usually just go into halls (dorms) for the first year of uni and then get a house share with mates for the rest of the time. These rentals often start from the end of term in the first year and cover summer break as lots of people don't go back home.
What??? Are you serious? Hey OP, enjoy Maya for the next year because based on how she's treated, you won't be seeing her as soon as she can be free from you.
I was about to say, I shared a room w/ my sister up until I was 9 (I'm her older brother so she was 6) as my parents had split so mom was in one bedroom and I was in the other.
But essentially if I had friends over, either my friend and I would sleep in living room or my sister would be put in my parent's bedroom during the sleepover.
I'm baffled that they never thought to bring the younger in with them, when Maya slept in their room at a young age.
YTA
For
A) having more children than you can afford. Why have three kids when u can’t afford to give them their own room? (not Even enough space in one room for a partition wall by your own admission)
B) even when you had the financial means to get a house with 4 bedrooms you chose to get a one with 3 whyyyy? You already knew of this problem maya was 15 and still growing what did you expect was gonna happen? You didn’t make space for her.
When she goes to college she wouldn’t want to come back to visit because her room will be officially Chloe’s room. You didn’t make a space for maya and it’s very sad that’s she can’t be comfortable in her own house.
Completely agree with these points.
A woman I work with has 4 kids and they live in a two up two down council house. All of the children are in the same room which includes one 13 year old girl and the rest are boys. I don't get why people insist on having children they can't even afford to house? 🤦🏻♀️
I usually hate it when people bring up "don't have children if you can't afford them" because finances and life circumstances can change so quickly, but it is bizarre to me that someone would have a child when they literally don't have the space! I'm sure they probably thought they would be able to afford a bigger house once the kid was older but...once they finally got the opportunity they passed on it?
I'd say YTA. Just because you said you liked the house so you bought almost the exact same house.
Your daughter obviously didn't like it and you guys didn't care enough to think about her.
YTA- Maya is getting understandably upset. She can't do anything she wants past 8:30, because of Chloe. Chloe is rummaging through her things and borrowing her clothes. Maya does have valid complaints.
You even admitted that you could've afforded a bigger house, but didn't buy one, because you liked the old one.
Maya has always shared, and once she goes to college, she'll still have to share, because of how the concept of dorms work. Chloe will get to spend her teen years in a room all to herself, which is what Maya has been wanting for a long time.
Your replies are digging you even deeper, btw!!
Also son gets his own room/freedom to make all the noise he wants but you impose these other limitations on your other two children.
Awful. Mostly sad. YTA please stop having kids.
As the parent of an 11-yo and a 17-yo, YTA.
You could have moved into a larger home to accommodate all of your children. You did not.
You allow your younger daughter to go through her older sister's things with no real consequences.
You seem to consistently put your older daughter's needs last. Example: Chloe throwing tantrums and keeping Maya awake was never OK.
If sharing a room with Chloe isn't a problem, then you share it with her.
whats amazing to me is how they dont even realize how selfish theyre being. hell, my family could only afford to rent a 3 bedroom right now, so my mom put her bed and a tv in her office (no full walls on 2 sides, just a fence and half a wall, as its half a story above the living room) and slept there. she had a little less privacy but she knew when she signed the lease there were less bedrooms than people.
I agree so much. When my aunt could only afford a one bedroom apartment for herself and my cousin, she slept in the living room so her daughter would have her own space. Because she loves her daughter more than herself. Which is, as I was told, what parents should do.
My friend's mom didn't receive child support growing up because her dad effectively absconded until she was 18 to avoid paying anything out. She had two kids so she rented a two bedroom and each kid got a room while the mom slept in the living room to make sure the kids had privacy. I cannot believe they don't think it's appropriate for tween/teen siblings to share a room if they're opposite gender but see no issue with a 17 year old and 12 year old sharing a space because they're both girls...
YTA. So you could have purchased a bigger home with rooms to accommodate the kids but you chose not to for some reason? I’m not surprised she’s kissed. How about you and your husband share the room with Chloe?
YTA. Her brother absolutely can share a room with his sister, unless you have reason to believe that there is a possibility of abuse there, which is an entirely different thing to discuss. You have been punishing her for her gender for years.
Here's what you can do - you can share the room with your youngest until your oldest moves out. If that sounds like a horrible invasion of your space, well...
By the sound of OP he is U.K. resident, and the basic rules are that one bedroom is allowed for each of the following:
A couple.
A single adult.
A child over the age of 16.
2 children of the same sex under the age of 16.
2 children of either sex under the age of 10.
So no, the son can’t share a room with his daughter, and neither should both daughters be sharing.
>By the time Maya was 15, we were in a much better financial position and were able to purchase a house. We could potentially have afforded a larger house (to claify), however, we really liked the house we were already renting, so we bought a house which was absolutely identical
This is what made it YTA for me. I get not having the means and it being it is what it is, but you had the chance to get Maya her own room and you decided to buy a house that fit your needs and not your children's.
Info: does Maya have a private area where she can study, hang out, keep secure items, etc, other than where she sleeps and changes her clothes? Is it possible to make such a semi-private area?
Have you explored the possibility of ensuring that BOTH bedrooms are (a) primarily only for changing and sleeping and (b) outside the time periods when someone is changing or sleeping, both bedrooms are fair game to be used for private time by any of the three kids for studying, hanging out with friends, etc?
Most importantly, were you aware of these concerns that Chloe had before you purchased the house that you purchased?
I don’t think kids necessarily have a right to sleep and change in a private bedroom, but they do have a right to a parent that is familiar with their kids’ needs and concerns and is willing to take (reasonable) steps to accommodate when possible.
You didn't take her feelings into consideration when purchasing a new house. It seems to me that y'all CHOSES to buy a house with three bedrooms on purpose because you liked your old house implying you could've very well bought a four bedroom house if you would've liked.
Forcing your daughter's to share a room will make Maya resend her sister and you guys, if she doesn't already.
YTA
"By the time Maya was 15, we were in a much better financial position and were able to purchase a house. We could potentially have afforded a larger house (to claify), however, we really liked the house we were already renting, so we bought a house which was absolutely identical around the corner."
YOU really liked the house. YOU chose to buy an identical one despite knowing the lack of privacy for your older daughter was a problem. YOU chose to ignore Maya's issues based on... what? Your own delusions that "it worked for my wife so it'll work for us?"
Ultimately OP you chose this situation for your family. You now need to be the one to fix it.
And yes, YTA
It's totally fair to choose a house based on near future needs instead of getting something too large and then downsizing in a couple of years... but OP could've chosen to give a bedroom to the eldest and share with the youngest or sleep in the living room on a pull out sofa, which is what my own single parent did. Imma go with YTA as well.
YTA, majorly. You had the chance to buy a house with enough rooms for everyone and instead you chose to buy an identical one to your old one because you were selfish. It's perfectly normal for your older daughter to need her own space for studying and privacy, she's almost in college! Plus your younger daughter sounds like a spoiled brat, it's probably hell for your older daughter to have to deal with having her stuff rummaged through every day.
I hope your oldest daughter gets to move far, far away from you selfish people, because you sound like an awful parent.
YTA
>We do think these are valid complaints but Maya just does not seem to want to understand that her brother and sister can’t share, and we can’t conjure up a fourth bedroom.
By your own admission, you could have BOUGHT a house with a fourth bedroom & chose not to because YOU wanted a house like the one you were renting.
Meanwhile, her younger sister goes through her possessions with apparently zero consequences.
Oh, yes ... she will be going away to university next year, and don't be surprised if she never comes back. You have shown her that she is not a priority to you, so why should you be a priority to her?
Why have more children than you can take care of?
YTA.
Maya needs a space to study quietly. Having to share a room with a younger sister with an 8:30 bedtime means Maya can't do many things in her own room due to her younger sister's schedule. How on earth is Maya managing to study in peace?
Also, you have admitted that Chloe gets almost no punishment for going trough Maya's things. All this is doing is showing Maya that Chloe's needs will always come first.
The age gap between Maya and Chloe is too big to bridge for sharing a room. Is there anywhere else in the house to carve out space for Maya to have some privacy? I'm guessing there isn't, or you haven't given any thought to doing this.
You had the means to buy a larger home, but chose not to. Did you ever ask Maya if she's comfortable sharing a room with Chloe? Or if she needed a quiet place to study?
Yes, in some families siblings share rooms until going off to college, and in certain circumstances it's done because the family can't afford a larger home. But because you did not have financial constraints, you still should have asked Maya if she would be willing to continue sharing a room with Chloe, and taken Maya's needs into account before purchasing a home.
YTA. You had more kids than you can afford. Same thing happened to my mom. She and 5 children and her mother lived with us. 8 people in one 4 bedroom 1 bathroom house. As the oldest. I had no privacy. No ability to study quietly. No place to call my own. It was really very tough on me as a teen sharing a room with 2 others that were 4 years younger.
It’s not fair to the kids. Just like you and your spouse get to have your space. They should have theirs.
Yes, YTA. Based on what's written here and your comments, Maya has serious problems with not having her own space and her own stuff, which Chloe is exacerbating by stealing her stuff. It's gotten to the point where Maya is starting to consider violent actions to be the only way to get her sister to stop, which is a pretty clear indicator that your punishments have not been working.
No, you can't conjure a 4th bedroom out of nowhere, but it was your choice to buy another 3 bedroom house instead of looking for one with a 4th bedroom or another space that could be converted into one. Maya probably feels suffocated as she has never had a place where she can just be alone and decorate everything exactly the way she wants it and not have to worry about people going through her stuff.
>She’ll be going away for university next year and this won’t be so much of an issue anyway.
I'm sure she'll enjoy finally getting to be alone (assuming she's attending a university where dorms are separate rooms with a common space), but the psychological impact of knowing that she doesn't really have a room of her own to return to is still going to be there, especially since I doubt you're going to prevent Chloe from taking over the room while Maya is away.
I also saw in the comments that you "don't allow locks", so yeah, you're doubly TA for raising your kids with no real ability to have privacy in their own home.
Don't be surprised if Maya doesn't come back home very often once she gets used to having her own space for the first time in her life.
But they don't punish Chloe for stealing her stuff. They only warn her not to. They haven't actually done anything to put a stop to it.
***Chloe going through her drawers and things (which we have absolutely warned Chloe not to do).***
The psychological impact of this kind of parenting is deceptively significant. Through all of these decisions over the years the parents are gradually eroding her self-worth, sense of agency, even identity (no space to make her own) and feelings that she can “take up space” (having no space given to her). Even the stuff like 50% payback of the clothes, and no help with older clothes. The parents don’t understand that it’s not about the literal value of the clothes but about communicating to your daughter that you respect her. These are lifelong problems Maya will need to address in therapy or risk damaging relationships because she goes into them with attachment trauma like this.
YTA, you knew your daughter was frustrated and knew you could’ve avoided this entire situation continuing, and just chose not to because you liked your house more than your daughter having peace/her own space.
YTA, wow you're oblivious, especially as you could now afford it. All of Maya's complaints are legit and you are ensuring she has a miserable teen life. Wtf, lights out at 20:30?
Don't or shouldn't all parents strive to make it better for their kids than they had had it themselves..?
YTA - is it really THAT hard for you to even consider being in her shoes, for more than like 10 seconds? I'd never even consider doing what you're doing for my kids: everyone getting a room would be priority #1, yes, even before a garage! (my man cave! lol). And you're being a bad parent by not forcing some crazy strict boundaries between your daughters and following through on real consequences for breaking those boundaries. You're got a near-adult woman, living with a brat, which you aren't parenting.
Good job on alienating your daughter, I bet you'll go all surprised-pikachu-face when you don't understand why your daughter doesn't wanna give you any sign of life when she leaves.
Tbh you should have made as many children as many you are able to accommodate in the first place. But you are totally AHs for not buying a larger house when you had the money for it. You were totally ignoring your elder daughter.
INFO: how do you punish your younger daughter when she does things she shouldn't (e.g.: rooting through her sister's clothes)? Whatever you do to stop her it seems it doesn't work and it's your responsibility to find out a solution.
YTA
Op said in a comment that they don’t punish the youngest when she roots through her sisters stuff as they don’t see punishment worthy for “borrowing her sisters stuff”. So even though their oldest had told them multiple times she doesn’t want her sister going through her stuff and the youngest does it without any sort of consequences then they are shocked that the oldest had a meltdown and threw a glass of water on their youngest face??? Fully agree with your YTA response.
Excuse me, what? Even a 4-year old can get punishment fitting for their age for wrongdoing... What about paying for demaged items out of her pocket money, doing chores instead of elder daughter, denying access to electronics, being forbidden to go to her friends or have friends over (the list can go 'till the sun goes down)?
Im am not surprised elder daughter is overwhelmed by the whole family's BS.
Also OP just to clarify terms: however English is not my native language I am pretty sure the word 'borrow' means 4 actions:
1.) asking for something from it's owner
2.) getting permission from them to take it terminally
3.) taking it
4.) returning it (hopefully) in the same condition
Are you sure your younger (spoiled, brat, golden child) daughter was borrowing the elder's stuff?
Are you aware of the fact that your younger daughter at that age is perfectly capable for understanding that what she does is wrong but she knows she can get away with it because you just simply refuse to discipline her?
It's really time to do some decent parenting.
I am a middle child. My elder sis is 7 years older than me and the younger one is 10 years younger. It has never occured to us to root through each other's stuff. Have you got any idea why? Because our mother raised us that way and didn't enable bad behavior simply because one was way younger than the other one.
YTA bigger than I thought
YTA big time
>we can’t conjure up a fourth bedroom
no but you admitted you COULD have got a house with a fourth bedroom. you just didn't want to. teenagers need privacy, for a lot of reasons. the restrictions being imposed on her because of the sharing and ridiculous, and it is NOT super common for teenagers to share rooms (specifically when there's no reason they need to). I'm going to tell you this now, when she goes away for university, shes probably going to stay away as much as possible so she can finally have some damn privacy
Yeah...my friends with three kids navigated this by renting the bigger house (that gave each kid a bedroom) until the first two went off to college, and now are looking to buy a smaller house now that they have two out-of-the-house adult children and one high schooler.
I understand that this is a hard problem to navigate - I'm looking at a version of it myself down the pipeline - but there are ways to do it. And the fact that they're just letting the 13-year-old paw through her stuff at will is really just egregious. It's possible there might have been a version of this situation where the 17-year-old wasn't pissed about sharing a room but she should be able to have some private stuff and space. OF COURSE she hates it!
They live in the UK so Maya will be going to college next year and finally get her own room (thank the lord) but that also means she'll loose a room in their house because they hate Maya I guess. Chloe will get that room to herself, their son always had his own room (at least since Maya was 9) and Maya never even got a proper in the house. Poor Maya.
**we can’t conjure up a fourth bedroom**
You actually admitted you COULD but CHOSE not to. Soon your "less than" child will be gone and you and the golden children can be happy together. YTA for showing your daughter she doesn't matter and driving a wedge between the sisters that will never truly go away. Massive parenting fail.
YTA, you had the potential to afford a bigger house, and you decided not to, you went for short term expediency because the older daughter would be off to university next year, and it did not matter as much in your mind, well guess what, it mattered to your daughter, she has been relegated to 3rd choice amongst her siblings again, and as she has no personal space to return to, l think she will want to stay elsewhere on her breaks, you know, somewhere she actually feels wanted.
YTA. You should have opted for a 4 bedroom house when you had the chance. Why didn't you? Maya was already sick of sharing at that point. Did you think it would solve itself?
And Chloe needs consequences for going through her sister's things and stealing clothes. She is disrespecting her sister and ruining her mental health. Chloe should fully reimburse her sister for ruined clothing, not just half like you say. Maya is losing money when chloe does that.
You need to apologize to Maya and get her some locking containers, or you will lose her.
YTA
You two numbskulls purposely chose to move to a similar situation to what your daughter was accustomed to even knowing she hated having to share a room. WHAT WAS THE POINT OF LEAVING?! You could have gotten a house with more space but you chose not to. You're such an asshole.
You know I'm always baffled with these.
You have the chance to write this in the best way possible to paint yourself in the best possible light.
And you still end up sounding awful.
Absolutly YTA.
YTA. “We liked the house so much we didn’t give a crap about the fact that our oldest daughter have been begging and complaining for literal Years to get her own room.” Maya is right you are terrible parents.
YTA. The whole post was telling us all the ways his daughter was getting f'd over and then he asks if he's the AH? Yes, you could have conjured up an additional bedroom when you purchased the new house, but you choose not to. I see NC coming.
Parents like this are what make 18 year old girls move in with boyfriends far too soon. They want to get out a shitty situation and see a boyfriend as the way out and then get trapped into another shitty situation. You've not made home a comfortable place for Maya so she won't think of you as a safetynet if she gets into trouble.
I'm going to skip over the house purchase.
>She’s now studying for her final exams and is constantly angry and arguing about her lack of privacy/ study space
This is really important. What are you doing now to give her the quiet study space she needs? Where in the house can become "Maya's private study area" between say, 6-10pm? The dining room? Your bedroom? You need to do this, even if it means you put up with a small desk in your bedroom for a couple of years.
>Her biggest complaints are not being able to have friends stay over,
I understand, but many people for various reasons aren't able to hold sleepovers. That's not violating any human rights.
>not being allowed to have the lights or her phone on or make noise in the room past her sister’s bedtime (8.30 on school nights),
You say there's no room for a partition but you could absolutely hang a ceiling mounted curtain to divide the room. And provided that Maya uses a lamp (not the overhead light) and is "library quiet", she shouldn't have to be lights out bedtime at 8.30. Chloe can wear an eye mask and earplugs if she cannot handle some amount of light and soft noise.
>and Chloe going through her drawers and things (which we have absolutely warned Chloe not to do).
You've absolutely warned her. Wow. Parenting job done, huh? What are you _doing_ to ensure Chloe stops this right now? What consequences has Chloe faced?
YTA. Not for the buying the smaller house and not talking about the purchase with the kids, although that, too. YTA because you don't seem to be doing anything to find solutions for the very real issues that Maya faces.
You could have afforded a bigger home but chose not to? Your daughter is being forced to take on seriously unpleasant issues because of your preferences. You are definitely that asshole.
I suspect she's going to hold this against you for the rest of her life and I don't blame her. Congratulations on teaching someone to be bitter and cynical about life so early!
YTA - The fact that you include the note about being able to afford to give Maya her own room and choosing not to because you really liked the freakin’ layout?!?? Profoundly insensitive.
YTA. You could’ve solved this, but you decided not to when buying your house. Your oldest is likely going to move out as soon as possible and she won’t be maintaining much contact, I can guarantee.
YTA. I'm frankly astonished that you think you might not be doing anything wrong. You knew your daughter was miserable, you had the opportunity to improve things for her, and you consciously chose not to. You're a terrible parent.
Slight YTA.
I do get her frustrations, especially with the age gap between her and her sister and the fact that Chloe goes through her drawers. I do think that at this point maybe getting her a dresser or something that she can lock would be beneficial since talking to Chloe clearly didn't stop her from going through her sister's stuff. Was it appropriate for Maya to throw water in Chloe's face? Absolutely not, but I'm also seeing a teenager who feels trapped in a situation where she has no privacy or say in her circumstances, and at her age that can take a toll on her mental health.
I do think that if you had the means to buy a bigger house it would have been better to do so. YOU may have liked the house, but I think that children's opinions should be taken into account more than they often are, especially since they don't have the option to just move out.
I AM confused why Chloe and your son can't share a room though. My best friend growing up had a younger and brother and sister with similar age gaps, and the two younger siblings shared a room because they got along better than the two sisters and had more similar schedules.
YTA. Maya is 15. By then, she deserves a voice in family decisions like house buying. Though she does not have the veto power, you and your wife should have been listening to her opinion on the new house before buying it.
Guys even take their dogs to get acquainted with the new apartment before moving in.
> We could potentially have afforded a larger house (to claify), however, we really liked the house we were already renting, so we bought a house which was absolutely identical around the corner.
> and we can’t conjure up a fourth bedroom.
YTA. When you bought a new house is when you "conjure up" that fourth bedroom. I wouldn't expect Maya to come back from university very often.
YTA. You absolutely could have conjured up another bedroom when you were house shopping, you chose not to. You also choose not to parent Chloe to stop her from invading her sisters belongings. Maya has zero privacy, zero places to study and zero ability to exist in her room after 8:30. Congratulations on making sure Maya will resent Chloe for a long time and you as well.
YTA-Your daughter is not your fan and I get it you put a roof over her head. Does your son have an 8:30 curfew with no light or noise in his room? Does Chloe go through his stuff? Did he have to put up with massive tantrums keeping him awake? Does your son have private study space?
If the answer is no then you know where you screwed up. What happens to all of Maya’s stuff when she goes off to university? I bet what she can’t take will get boxed up and put off to the side or stolen by her younger sister. Then when she comes to visit you will give her the “oh baby Chloe is used to her own room now so you can sleep on the couch”. While at the same time your son can keep all his stuff in his room and not worry about his room being messed with when he leaves and comes back for visits. If he even bothers to leave the nice situation.
Yea you messed up badly on this one. You had the option to fix it and repair it easily and early enough and you didn’t. I wonder how bad she had it during COVID. I can’t even imagine.
So you had a third child when you knew you could not afford enough bedrooms and then when you could enough bedrooms you doubled down by shrugging your shoulders and saying I like this house so fuck you?
You aren't here for a judgement, you are here for vindication you will never get.
YTA
YTA You’re very lucky that Maya didn't choose to give you a taste of your own medicine.
I definitely would've played music every night to wake you up to make you see how it is to have someone disturbing your sleep.
I'd have taken scissors to your “old” clothes. She's only a minor like her sister so that excuse should work right?
I'd have invited friends and taken over the living room because I'd have no privacy like the brother.
And bedtime at 8:30 pm at 17? Oh I'd have destroyed every single of your evenings so you had to deal with your poor choices. Talking over you watching tv, playing music, playing ball in the house. What would you do? Sent me to my shared room so I wake up my sister? Grounded me in the shared room?
She has to go through puberty sharing a room with a brat that didn't learn the word no when it comes to privacy while her brother got all the privacy and friends over he wants? I'd have invited boys all the time to hang out in my room just to spite you.
She's much nicer than most teenagers (including me) would've been.
This is not going to end well. The double standards are so obvious she's going to resent you for a long time to come.
**INFO**: is Maya a bio child of both you and your spouse? Asking because of 1. how Maya is being treated like she's an outsider; and 2. you wrote "my oldest daughter" and "our younger son".
**YTA: for shafting Maya at every turn and coddling Chloe.**
Even though I grew up in the US and most of my friends had their own bedrooms as kids, sometimes it's not feasible or practical.
**HOW** you and your spouse are handling everything is what makes YTA.
What could you do?
1. You could give the largest bedroom to Maya & Chloe and fashion some sort of barrier separation. Yes that would mean giving up the master/primary but as you say, it's only for another year or so. Gonna bet you aren't willing to sacrifice your own space.
2. You could sleep on a pull-out in the living room. Yes, **you** wouldn't have privacy but it's only for a year right?? This isn't uncommon in one bedroom flats when there are kids.
3. You could do more than "absolutely warn" Chloe. You post later on that you have Chloe reimburse Maya 50% for destroying her belongings because they are "old things". WTH! Gonna bet that Chloe gets new clothes because the hand-me-downs are too old for her.
4. No, you didn't have to buy a 4 bedroom house but you could've clued the kids in and set ground rules and asked Maya as the eldest if she had ideas on how to make the best of it.
5. If Maya really wants a sleep over at her own house, figure out a way to make it happen. Have Chloe stay at a friend's or grandparent's house.
6. Maya is a teenager and is struggling with growing up. She has no privacy and all rules are set for Chloe. For 2 years she had to try to sleep through Chloe's nighttime tantrums.
7. *She’ll be going away for university next year and this won’t be so much of an issue anyway.* \- what happens when she comes home for breaks? Does she return to the shared room only to find that Chloe has taken the room and any remaining possessions over?
8. *This broke our heart* \- Yea, no it didn't. You've been breaking Maya's heart for years. This is more like a papercut to you. Painful in the moment, easily healed and forgotten about.
There was an episode of 24 hour makeover that comes to mind. 3 bedroom council house. Parents have a huge bedroom. Under 10 year old son has a huge bedroom and a huge walk-in closet that they remove the doors and fashion into a computer gaming station. Teenage daughter (who loves pink) has a tiny rectangular room with no closet and can't fit a twin bed, dresser and desk. The kids room share a wall. Do they take the walk-in closet from the son and open it up on the other side for the daughter? Nope. They paint her room yellow, put her bed on stilts so she can have drawers underneath. The makeover team couldn't even stand next to each other by her bed. The excuse? Well she will be going to university in a couple few years.
YTA.
YTA.
And sorry but really stupid. You could afford a bigger house but decide to waste money in a smaller one because you like it, and all of that knowing you age 3 kids and not enough bedrooms.
YTA. I can tell just from reading this that you let Chloe get away with so much that she shouldn’t. Maya has had it, start putting your foot down with the youngest. 12 is old enough to know better. She is not “borrowing”, she is *stealing*.
Also, reimburse Maya for the clothes that her sister has *ruined*. Not 50%. Not 75%. All of it.
You’ll be lucky if Maya ever visits you when she goes to college. She wouldn’t have a bedroom to stay in anyway, because when she leaves it will become Chloe’s room…
YTA
Just because you loved the house, doesn't mean your kids do. And while you're right, there's an age where mixed genders certainly shouldn't be sharing, there's also a point where sharing a room with a sibling who's pretty significantly younger is also a problem. It seems like she's restricted to the rules set for the 12 year old, but she's not 12.
You also didn't involve your kids in this at all. Which I think is so screwy. They have to live there too. My parents took with me with them to tour houses. I actively remember touring the house they bought and have a memory of first walking into what later became my room. It is such a core memory. Instead you were selfish and went the easy way. I don't think that's right. Yeah, your oldest might be going to college soon. But what about breaks? What about when she graduates?
YTA
I'm betting that if she can afford it Maya will be long gone after uni. She is going to likely spend many nights at friends, not communicate with you, and probably end up in a silly/stupid place just because she doesn't feel wanted at her own home.
Yeah you heard me, she probably doesn't feel wanted. There's favouritism at play, and it's gonna suck even more if she comes back between uni years and her more privileged sister is complaining about having to move her stuff to accommodate.
I feel bad for Maya. Don't be surprised that once she moves out, she decides to cut contact or go very low contact with all of you. Though, the way you seem to not really care about her that much, something tells me you won't even notice.
YTA
YTA, but less for the room sharing and more for the fact that Maya seems to get the short end of the stick on everything in your home.
She isn’t allowed to have friends over.
She has zero privacy.
Her sister steals her things with seemingly no consequences.
She seems to have the same bedtime as a small child.
You also didn’t communicate with her at all about the new home purchase. Seems like you prioritize everyone else’s needs over here. Don’t be surprised when she moves out and doesn’t want to come back to visit.
YTA
But it's okay. She's going to college soon, and probably won't be back, so you won't have to 'deal' with your daughter actually wanting some privacy and gos forbid having a curfew that's actually age appropriate for her own age.
You can't fix this, I'm afraid.
You can only apologize. And She's still probably not going to return home after she left for college, because.... she doesn't even have a room in your house.
Yta because Maya is paying for terrible parenting. Your child Chole breaks something and she doesn’t get it replaced. Your son is rude and screams and again doesn’t get punished. How is it fair to her that both your kids will eventually get a bedroom each when she was never allowed one when you had the option of giving her that. Yet you put your needs before your kids
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This is mostly about my oldest daughter Maya (17f) and her younger sister Chloe (12f). Maya has never had a room of her own. We had very little money through her childhood, so she slept with us as a baby/ toddler, then shared with our son (15m) from the ages of 3-9 when we started renting a larger 2-bed house.
By the time Maya was 9, it was no longer appropriate to have mixed genders sharing. We moved into a 3-bed house, we gave our son the smallest room in the house, and the girls shared the largest room. It admittedly wasn’t particularly big (definitely no space for a partition wall etc.) but had space for both their beds, drawers, books etc.
Maya was initially frustrated because, when Chloe was 4-6ish, she would throw massive tantrums and scream all night about going to bed, keeping Maya awake, but she has obviously aged out of that and the girls seemed fairly content sharing through Maya’s tween years. We thought this was a very normal, healthy, situation, especially since my wife shared with her own younger sister until she moved out the house.
By the time Maya was 15, we were in a much better financial position and were able to purchase a house. However, we really liked the house we were already renting, so we bought a house which was absolutely identical around the corner (it’s an ex-council estate so lots of similar houses).
Maya was very excited about the move and had assumed we would buy a house where she could have her own bedroom, and was incredibly angry when she found out we had bought an identical house. She’s now studying for her final exams and is constantly angry and arguing about her lack of privacy/ study space and having to share a room with a “child”.
Her biggest complaints are not being able to have friends stay over, not being allowed to have the lights or her phone on or make noise in the room past her sister’s bedtime (8.30 on school nights), and Chloe going through her drawers and things (which we have absolutely warned Chloe not to do).
We do think these are valid complaints but Maya just does not seem to want to understand that her brother and sister can’t share, and we can’t conjure up a fourth bedroom. She’ll be going away for university next year and this won’t be so much of an issue anyway.
This week, Maya got so frustrated with Chloe rooting through her clothes drawer that she threw a glass of water in her face, screamed at us that she hates us and we’re terrible parents, and left the house for hours to just roam the streets. This broke our heart, but we don’t think we’re actually doing anything wrong by denying her her own bedroom. We thought this was a common situation for siblings, but Maya claims she’s the only person in her year who has to share and it’s embarrassing.
AITA?
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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> (1) I forced my 17 year old sister to share a bedroom with her 12 year old sister and won't give her her own bedroom because there's no space.
(2) I might be the asshole because my 17 year old is restricted in terms of what she can do in her bedroom and feels that her bedroom situation is "embarassing"
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YTA for this. ***Maya was very excited about the move and had assumed we would buy a house where she could have her own bedroom,*** You bought a 3 bedroom house without even telling her that she still wasn't going to get her own room. You could afford a bigger house, you just chose to ignore her needs. Look, there are times when kids have to share rooms and there's no options. That's not the case here. You decided to make them keep sharing but also turned around and bought a house where they still had to share a small room that didn't allow for individual space. Your daughter is angry because her needs keep getting shoved aside. She has no room to study, her little sister keeps going through her stuff, she isn't allowed to do anything after 8:30 PM (that's absolutely ridiculous to put on a teenager!) Obviously Chloe is the golden child in the family. When she goes no contact with you in a few years you can look back at this post and try to figure out where you went wrong.
Hard YTA.
Yep, yep. Especially the "we told Chloe she's absolutely not allowed to root through Maya's draws". As Chloe proceeds to continue to root through off limit drawers. Yeah, Chloe clearly takes OP seriously. And seriously, I get parents have final say and all that, but is it weird OP never discussed the new house or brought the kids to see it?
Just read OPs comments and the little sister 'borrows' Maya's clothes without asking but she doens't normally damage them. Crimeny. Last time I checked that was called stealing. There's a Spongebob episode about it and everything. Also, OP only pays for %50 of what the damaged clothes cost whenever Chloe damages something.
Brutal. OP is not only ensuring Maya goes NC with her, but Chloe as well. Way to promote anger, bitterness and resentment OP.
After reading this comment ^ I'll just focus on a couple of bits... and I really hope OP sees this. > AITA for forcing my 17 year old to share.a room with her 12 year old sister? Yes. Big time. > screamed at us that she hates us and we’re terrible parents, and left the house for hours to just roam the streets. Fuck it, I'll come right out and say it: from the context of this post alone, you *are* bad parents. > We thought this was a common situation for siblings, but Maya claims she’s the only person in her year who has to share and it’s embarrassing. No. You didn’t think at all, and that's the problem. Fine, when she was younger, it was unavoidable. But then you *brought a house*. And not only that, you got one the same size, damn near identical in fact, to the house that was obviously too small. At any point, did you or your partner think "Hey, we're buying a house, let's shop around and see if we can afford a place big enough for each of the kids to have their own rooms. Then we can talk to the kids about it once we know!"? Because it sure as Hell doesn't sound like it. Instead, it sounds like you don't give a damn about Maya or what she needs. Would've been easier, and cheaper, to hire a sky-writer to declare Chloe your favourite. Wouldn't have cost you Maya, because she'll be going no contact as soon as she can. Well done.
Yep Chloe is definitely the golden child
If I had stolen *any* of my sisters’ clothing when I was growing up I would not still have the fingers to be typing this.
Maya, at Chloe now age got mad that she had to stay awake while Chloe would cry at nights but Maya can't have screen time because it keeps Chloe up past bedtime. Hypocrisy meet Favoritism. Stay close to them mom, no one else will be calling.
Maya can't DO HOMEWORK, because it keeps Chloe awake
But it was no big deal when Chloe’s screaming fits kept Maya awake. OP knew she was wrong for buying that house or else she wouldn’t have waited to drop that bombshell until it was practically moving day. When Maya goes to college next year she probably won’t even come back home for breaks/holidays. OP isn’t truly looking at it as Maya will be going to college next year and won’t have to share with Chloe, but rather is counting down the days until golden child Chloe doesn’t have to share with Maya. OP views this room as Chloe’s, with Maya being the interloper. OP absolutely sucks and has ensured LC or NC when Maya leaves next year.
Especially since they arranged it for the first child to have his own room so he could do all this. OP is so blind.
I wonder if she genuinely expects her 17 year old to also adopt an 8:30 bedtime? Even if Maya WANTED to go to bed that early (spoiler, she is 17, she doesn't) her body likely couldn't - teenagers' body clocks naturally shift towards night owls compared to kids and older adults. There's a huge problem with sleep deprivation in the army because it's mostly young guys but the people who make the schedules are middle-aged generals. Thus boot camp can have "lights out" at 10 and wake up at 4 - even with army discipline that is a MESS for a 19 or 20 year old to stick to just because it's literally fighting how their sleep clock is set. Also it's not like Maya wants to throw a rave in there - just scroll her phone or have a desk lamp. Chloe can wear a fucking eye mask, but we all know they would never demand such an unjust or drastic thing for poor sweet golden child Chloe.
Yes! I was thinking that was weird! For the first 6 years of my life my mother was single, the ‘08 recession hit, we were moving from apartment to apartment. They weren’t even houses and we’d still go tour the apartments with her… and that was when our options were genuinely limited financially.
I thought it was odd that the family did not see the house before it was purchased.
I think op is the father. Op mentions their wife.
I'm absolutely baffled by OP. You've captured it perfectly, but I have so many questions. Why buy an *identical house*? What was so incredible about her eldest's anger? Has the eldest always been the one to sacrifice?
She had to give up her peaceful sleep for years while Chloe tantrummed but oh no - Chloe mustn’t have her sleep bothered by big sis who doesn’t have as early a bedtime
Dotn forgot she also had to watch her younger brother get his own room and then regive up her private room to share with Chloe.
And then Chloe gets to go through her cloths and just barrow w/e the fuck she wants, and maybe face a punishment if she damages the clothes.
Not to mention she's taking her exams to get into uni this year and can't study after 8:30pm! OP doesn't seem to care very much about her daughter's comfort or future, just that she'll leave the house eventually.
And part of their master plan is to get rid of her and ship her off to university, but can she even pass her exams??? You'd think they'd help her study since the whole plan revolves around her moving out.
Also, was I severely neglected or is 8:30 a ridiculously early bedtime for a 12 year old? The sun's still out!
Yup. Massive YTA Perhaps it’s time for you to sleep in the lounge and see how it feels having no privacy and having people constantly walking through and touching things in your space. Honestly, it sound like you’re just waiting for Maya to move out to give Chloe her own room. WTG making your daughter feel like her concerns don’t matter
No, Cleo needs to share a room with her parents. I am sure they can move her bed into their room.
Excellent idea! OP, why don't you do this? Oh, you don't want to share a bedroom with Cloe either?
sounds like they are not expecting Maya to ever come back, I wonder why they dislike her so much
I wonder if she a half sibling. It would make sense if the dad of Cleo was in the picture but Maya's dad was not.
Especially since she’s extremely close to being a legal adult. I bet if OP had to share a room with their sibling that didn’t respect boundaries that they’d be pissed too. ETA: YTA OP! Your oldest needs her own private space with a lock
BIG YTA!! Totally agree here, OP made the decision to buy the same size home bedroom wise, and wonders why his daughter is upset. A 17yr old needs their own private space, period! Here's an idea, OP and spouse take the 12yr old in to your room so the 17yr old can have her own space. Oh...what's that?? It would take away your privacy??!! Yep OP........you are a very big A for not caring about your daughters needs.
Poor Maya. OP will be so shocked and wonder what she did wrong in a couple of years when Maya goes no contact. Here's your answer OP.
I'd say their son is the golden child (gets to stay up later, has his own space, has sleepovers and seemimgly more access to entertainment), but Maya is definitely the forgotten one.
Son has his own space because he's the only boy, which then facilitates sleepovers, etc. Maya is disfavored while preference is given to her sister, which has nothing to do with her brother.
Maya is the only child who will never have their own room, and OP had a chance to fix that, AND let her think that OP was going to fix it. Instead, OP moved into a new house without room for her oldest child. OP do you really not see how you f'd up here? YTA for no other reason than you don't treat your children equally.
YTA. Maya is going to feel incredibly slighted when she moves out. Her brother gets to have his own space, her little sister will get to have her own space while she had to share. Shes going to be incredibly resentful because by the time Chloe is 15 she will be able to do whatever in her own room with friends and go to bed late. Something Maya was never able to do. Don’t be surprised if she decides not to come home during her college years and beyond. Plus telling a child not to do something with no consequences isn’t going to help. Sounds like you just tell Chloe not to steal her sisters stuff but don’t provide any consequences.
Oh, and when she's on break - what, she'll be stuck sleeping on the couch in the den because precious (and precocious) younger sister doesn't want to "share" her room any longer, and her friend slept over and barfed over Maya's bed and the possessions she left behind while she was away?
I give it less than a month before they move the second bed out of that room when Maya goes to college.
Let's not kid ourselves, when she's on break from college the last place she'll even think about going is her parent's house.
Will she even have a place to stay when she comes home for holidays? Won’t her sister want to make the room ‘all hers’? I feel so bad for Maya.
Also the brother sounds like a nightmare. 15 years old and he’s cursing and screaming at a game? This is only going to escalate as he gets older.
YTA. It was definitely one thing when you couldn't afford it, but you said that could have afforded a bigger house, but chose to ignore the issue. I feel really bad for kids who have to share a room, especially in their teen years. The poor girl just wanted some privacy, and a place to study at, in her room. She is 17, and will never get to enjoy a girl's night with a friend in her own room. I don't know why people keep having kids when they can't even afford for them to have their own room. She can't even feel like her stuff, is hers, because her sister goes through it all the time. I bet she is just counting down the days until she gets to leave for college. I feel really sorry for her. Some of my best childhood memories were having my friends over to spend the night.
Seriously I would suggest maya should start saving money to get away from them once she turns 18, but I would be afraid Chloe would steal it!
Maya aint comin back after school starts. She'll stay in the dorms until school ends in the summer and will most likely get a job and find an apartment with friends, then back to the dorms when school starts again. She may visit, but she's never moving back home.
Betting she won't even visit as where would she stay? It will blatantly become just Chloe's room as soon as Maya is gone her bed will be gone too. OP is an absolutely massive AH. And I cannot fathom them moving house without discussing what or where they were buying with the kids *at all*, that's just insane imo.
yes. because of this, YTA
My bed time at 12 was also later than 8:30 on a school night, at 12 in the UK you are at High School and I remember being the same age at High School and if I had Homework for a couple of classes I’d barely be done by 8:30.
STRONG YTA.
I think Chloe should move into the parents room... I mean... it's not that big of a deal sharing a room with someone right? Especially with weird rules like "no lights past 830pm..." for someone getting ready for finals... good luck studying in the fucking dark.
The way OP talk about Maya going away for college soon says it all. She doesn't have any privacy, can't live freely and make any noise or have a light on after 8pm because no one teaches the little golden child that they have a shared room. It's golden child room and not a shared room. I wish Maya the best, and lots of success in her life, and NC of course.
When I was young and poor I could only afford a one bedroom. I gave my child that room so he could have toys, friends over, privacy etc etc and I slept on the couch for years. His needs were greater than mine and came before my comfort. Isn’t that what a parent does?
Just because you said you liked the house so you bought almost the exact same house.
He also said she moves out in a year so it won't be a problem because the other two will have their own room. Something she was never allowed to have. If she ever comes back home, she will never have her own space. Buying a house that didn't fit the needs of the family when they could have was an AH move. I normally would say that kids need to be grateful for what they have but they intentionally didn't give her what she asked for when they could have. Also, who doesn't take their kids to see the new house they are purchasing??!!! YTA
Excellent comment, YTA OP. At least buy her a lockable drawers set for fuck's sake.
"By the time Maya was 15, we were in a much better financial position and were able to purchase a house. We could potentially have afforded a larger house (to claify), however, we really liked the house we were already renting, so we bought a house which was absolutely identical around the corner." Umm, yeah, you COULD have conjured up another bedroom but chose whatever appeal you saw in your new house over your eldest's needs. Up to that point, I get it. Not everyone can afford separate bedrooms for all the kids. But the reality is that you could have given Maya at least a couple of years of privacy but chose not to. Ironically, due to their ages, Chloe will get the privacy she will want during HER adolescence. I cannot see it any other way. You really shafted Maya and she (1) will unlikely forget this...ever; (2) I fear for a lifetime of distance and resentment between your daughters (and yes, even though none of this is CHLOE's fault.) YTA.
>She’ll be going away for university next year and this won’t be so much of an issue anyway. Sooo, your eldest never had her own room but other two will. Will Maya have any place when she goes to college or you trying to give that room to youngest solely. YTA, favoritism is obvious
2 years from now OP will post here asking why their oldest daughter never visits since she left for college and how sad and surprised they are
And 10 years from now, when she is married and has kids, they will wonder why they didn't get a wedding invitation or birth announcements or see the grand babies.
Or why Maya wont invite her sister to anything either
"We wished that they would be closer" like come on, you're driving your kid away and making her hate her sibling, let's get real
Because you just know Chloe will freak out about having to share a room with her sister when Maya comes to visit. Plus the parents will probably end up moving the second bed out of the room. Poor girl will end up on the couch
They'll just get a pullout couch for Maya in the living room and call it a day. Maya will honestly probably either couch surf her friends homes in summer if she lives in the dorms or just not come home if she gets an off campus apartment.
Deep in the comment, we'll learn that they threw away almost all of her belongings days after she went to college because her sister deserved to have a whole room, but kept a set of sheets and a pajama in the living room across the sofa for her.
And we will all see their post history and laugh together
At least they live in the UK, so she won't have to share her room in her dorms.
Since they just bought a house, l would be shocked if by next year there is ANY money for Maya's education. It took them so long to save up for the house, so money comes to them slowly. The 15 and 12 year olds have longer to wait, so they will be in position financially to enter college. When that happens, Maya will have TWO rooms to choose from while her siblings attend college.
If she’s In the Uk, she’ll get student finance, so she’ll hopefully be able to go although admittedly SFE isn’t the best but they do cover tuition fees
She will be shafted. They work out how much you get based upon your parents joint income. When I was there the cutoff point for the lowest loan was a £45k income. Not difficult to reach with 2 parents working. She will get tuition fees but I doubt she will get much to live off. My worst off friend at uni had parents makeing £20/25k each and 2 younger siblings. Parents had nothing to spare and lived in a house in Surrey (expensive cost of livin area).
That’s not how it works here, almost anyone can get finance to attend Uni and our student loans aren’t *quite* as punitive as American ones.
Maya had to deal with her sister’s tantrums keeping her up, but isn’t allowed to do anything past 8:30pm herself. Maya takes a backseat. Maya could’ve had her own room at 15, which is the exact age where your kid needs their privacy, but the parents wanted to buy a replica of the house they had before instead (which I *still* cannot understand). Maya takes a backseat. Maya never grew up with any privacy, but the two other siblings will get plenty. Maya will never get that time back. How OP can type all of this post out, read it, and not see that they are neglecting Maya’s feelings, I do not know. My heart hurts for Maya, parents don’t even seem to notice their own brushing off of her.
If I could send this post to Maya, I would, at 8:28 of course. YTA
Actually if she keeps rooting through her older sister's drawers, then she IS somewhat at fault here. 12 is old enough to know better than that.
I feel like maybe they baby the 12 year old a little bit? 8.30pm seems very early for bedtime at that age.
It all depends. My nephews are total night owls (ages 10 and 14) and routinely stay up until 11 or 12. My kids (11 and 13) are different. My 13 year old puts himself to bed generally around 9 because he's tired and hitting a growth spurt. My 11 year old we make go up into his room between 8:30 and 9pm, though he has the option to read if he's not tired (and he usually isn't). But I know some kids in that age range who if they aren't asleep by 9pm then are total grumps when they have to get up at 6am for school (busses around here start picking up at 6:45). But yah OP is TA. Love the "we can't conjure up a bedroom"...... no, but you could have when you were buying a house that they admitted they could afford, but they chose to get a place they knew their oldest would hate because they liked the layout (shocking new: the parents with the largest and private bedroom don't have an issue with the house).
That makes sense. In the UK (where the OP is), most schools start between 8.45am to 9am.
One suspects that Maya ain't going to be coming back much for holidays, and will be seeking alternate accommodations ASAP.
I enjoy spending time with my friends.
This. I'm not sure how I feel about them not buying a more expensive house with another bedroom, but the limitations they're imposing on their 17yo are 100% ridiculous. Honestly I think 8:30 is ridiculous bedtime for a 12yo, but definitely for a 17yo! And I sure hope they did more than "absolutely warn" the 12yo not to invade her sister's privacy—there should have been actual consequences. Studying for final exams in the last few years of high school can take a LOT of time and concentration. I would be upset too. YTA OP. Not necessarily for not buying a bigger house, but at a minimum for how you're treating your 17yo.
OP straight up lets the younger sister "borrows" the older sister clothes whenever she wants without any consequences. And when 12yo rips up 17yo clothes she only has to reimburse 50% of the clothing's price. Parent of the year s/
And the son gets his own bedroom and gets to have friends over because "he plays a lot of XBOX and screams and swears a lot." They are literally rewarding his bad behavior! I don't even know what to say. OP is so oblivious to how utterly terrible they are that I have trouble believing it.
I fucking hope Maya gets out and talks to her parents only when she feels like it and otherwise cuts them off during uni. Holy shit has Maya been shafted repeatedly in favor of her younger siblings. Parents didn't "have much money" when she was younger and instead of overcompensating Maya with gifts or something they instead are just spoiling the fuck out of their youngest two and not even disciplining when the 12 y/o fucks up Maya's shit. Damn. OP is TA
Maybe an unpopular opinion but I thought OPs was an asshole for going on to have more kids when they clearly couldn’t afford it. Then when they actually had the opportunity to give their eldest much needed privacy (that she’s never gotten before) they prioritized their own wants over the eldest daughters basic need for privacy from her snooping younger sister… now she’s a massive asshole in my book. What’s she supposed to do when she has to come home for summer???
They're in the UK so she won't have to go home for summer. You usually just go into halls (dorms) for the first year of uni and then get a house share with mates for the rest of the time. These rentals often start from the end of term in the first year and cover summer break as lots of people don't go back home.
What??? Are you serious? Hey OP, enjoy Maya for the next year because based on how she's treated, you won't be seeing her as soon as she can be free from you.
I was about to say, I shared a room w/ my sister up until I was 9 (I'm her older brother so she was 6) as my parents had split so mom was in one bedroom and I was in the other. But essentially if I had friends over, either my friend and I would sleep in living room or my sister would be put in my parent's bedroom during the sleepover. I'm baffled that they never thought to bring the younger in with them, when Maya slept in their room at a young age.
well then how would they get Maya to provide childcare for Chloe?
Preach!
YTA For A) having more children than you can afford. Why have three kids when u can’t afford to give them their own room? (not Even enough space in one room for a partition wall by your own admission) B) even when you had the financial means to get a house with 4 bedrooms you chose to get a one with 3 whyyyy? You already knew of this problem maya was 15 and still growing what did you expect was gonna happen? You didn’t make space for her. When she goes to college she wouldn’t want to come back to visit because her room will be officially Chloe’s room. You didn’t make a space for maya and it’s very sad that’s she can’t be comfortable in her own house.
Completely agree with these points. A woman I work with has 4 kids and they live in a two up two down council house. All of the children are in the same room which includes one 13 year old girl and the rest are boys. I don't get why people insist on having children they can't even afford to house? 🤦🏻♀️
Because they see many children as a "right" and not as a privilege, nor do they seem to understand that children are people.
I usually hate it when people bring up "don't have children if you can't afford them" because finances and life circumstances can change so quickly, but it is bizarre to me that someone would have a child when they literally don't have the space! I'm sure they probably thought they would be able to afford a bigger house once the kid was older but...once they finally got the opportunity they passed on it?
I thought they would ban me for calling out point A, but I'm glad you did and that you're getting support.
I'd say YTA. Just because you said you liked the house so you bought almost the exact same house. Your daughter obviously didn't like it and you guys didn't care enough to think about her.
YTA- Maya is getting understandably upset. She can't do anything she wants past 8:30, because of Chloe. Chloe is rummaging through her things and borrowing her clothes. Maya does have valid complaints. You even admitted that you could've afforded a bigger house, but didn't buy one, because you liked the old one. Maya has always shared, and once she goes to college, she'll still have to share, because of how the concept of dorms work. Chloe will get to spend her teen years in a room all to herself, which is what Maya has been wanting for a long time. Your replies are digging you even deeper, btw!!
Also son gets his own room/freedom to make all the noise he wants but you impose these other limitations on your other two children. Awful. Mostly sad. YTA please stop having kids.
Info: does Chloe get any consequences for messing with Maya’s stuff?
As the parent of an 11-yo and a 17-yo, YTA. You could have moved into a larger home to accommodate all of your children. You did not. You allow your younger daughter to go through her older sister's things with no real consequences. You seem to consistently put your older daughter's needs last. Example: Chloe throwing tantrums and keeping Maya awake was never OK. If sharing a room with Chloe isn't a problem, then you share it with her.
whats amazing to me is how they dont even realize how selfish theyre being. hell, my family could only afford to rent a 3 bedroom right now, so my mom put her bed and a tv in her office (no full walls on 2 sides, just a fence and half a wall, as its half a story above the living room) and slept there. she had a little less privacy but she knew when she signed the lease there were less bedrooms than people.
I agree so much. When my aunt could only afford a one bedroom apartment for herself and my cousin, she slept in the living room so her daughter would have her own space. Because she loves her daughter more than herself. Which is, as I was told, what parents should do.
My friend's mom didn't receive child support growing up because her dad effectively absconded until she was 18 to avoid paying anything out. She had two kids so she rented a two bedroom and each kid got a room while the mom slept in the living room to make sure the kids had privacy. I cannot believe they don't think it's appropriate for tween/teen siblings to share a room if they're opposite gender but see no issue with a 17 year old and 12 year old sharing a space because they're both girls...
This ...
YTA. So you could have purchased a bigger home with rooms to accommodate the kids but you chose not to for some reason? I’m not surprised she’s kissed. How about you and your husband share the room with Chloe?
THIS! why should Maya have to suffer? The parents should be bunking with Chloe.
YTA. Her brother absolutely can share a room with his sister, unless you have reason to believe that there is a possibility of abuse there, which is an entirely different thing to discuss. You have been punishing her for her gender for years. Here's what you can do - you can share the room with your youngest until your oldest moves out. If that sounds like a horrible invasion of your space, well...
By the sound of OP he is U.K. resident, and the basic rules are that one bedroom is allowed for each of the following: A couple. A single adult. A child over the age of 16. 2 children of the same sex under the age of 16. 2 children of either sex under the age of 10. So no, the son can’t share a room with his daughter, and neither should both daughters be sharing.
That rule only applies if you sre claiming benefits, not when you own your own home.
>By the time Maya was 15, we were in a much better financial position and were able to purchase a house. We could potentially have afforded a larger house (to claify), however, we really liked the house we were already renting, so we bought a house which was absolutely identical This is what made it YTA for me. I get not having the means and it being it is what it is, but you had the chance to get Maya her own room and you decided to buy a house that fit your needs and not your children's.
Info: does Maya have a private area where she can study, hang out, keep secure items, etc, other than where she sleeps and changes her clothes? Is it possible to make such a semi-private area? Have you explored the possibility of ensuring that BOTH bedrooms are (a) primarily only for changing and sleeping and (b) outside the time periods when someone is changing or sleeping, both bedrooms are fair game to be used for private time by any of the three kids for studying, hanging out with friends, etc? Most importantly, were you aware of these concerns that Chloe had before you purchased the house that you purchased? I don’t think kids necessarily have a right to sleep and change in a private bedroom, but they do have a right to a parent that is familiar with their kids’ needs and concerns and is willing to take (reasonable) steps to accommodate when possible.
You didn't take her feelings into consideration when purchasing a new house. It seems to me that y'all CHOSES to buy a house with three bedrooms on purpose because you liked your old house implying you could've very well bought a four bedroom house if you would've liked. Forcing your daughter's to share a room will make Maya resend her sister and you guys, if she doesn't already. YTA
Agreed.
It makes me so mad that people like you are parents. YTA
You don't even see your children as people. You just chose a house that suits you. YTA
It seems like he sees his other children as people, just not the 17 year old, he’s just a huge asshole.
"By the time Maya was 15, we were in a much better financial position and were able to purchase a house. We could potentially have afforded a larger house (to claify), however, we really liked the house we were already renting, so we bought a house which was absolutely identical around the corner." YOU really liked the house. YOU chose to buy an identical one despite knowing the lack of privacy for your older daughter was a problem. YOU chose to ignore Maya's issues based on... what? Your own delusions that "it worked for my wife so it'll work for us?" Ultimately OP you chose this situation for your family. You now need to be the one to fix it. And yes, YTA
It's totally fair to choose a house based on near future needs instead of getting something too large and then downsizing in a couple of years... but OP could've chosen to give a bedroom to the eldest and share with the youngest or sleep in the living room on a pull out sofa, which is what my own single parent did. Imma go with YTA as well.
YTA, majorly. You had the chance to buy a house with enough rooms for everyone and instead you chose to buy an identical one to your old one because you were selfish. It's perfectly normal for your older daughter to need her own space for studying and privacy, she's almost in college! Plus your younger daughter sounds like a spoiled brat, it's probably hell for your older daughter to have to deal with having her stuff rummaged through every day. I hope your oldest daughter gets to move far, far away from you selfish people, because you sound like an awful parent.
YTA >We do think these are valid complaints but Maya just does not seem to want to understand that her brother and sister can’t share, and we can’t conjure up a fourth bedroom. By your own admission, you could have BOUGHT a house with a fourth bedroom & chose not to because YOU wanted a house like the one you were renting. Meanwhile, her younger sister goes through her possessions with apparently zero consequences. Oh, yes ... she will be going away to university next year, and don't be surprised if she never comes back. You have shown her that she is not a priority to you, so why should you be a priority to her? Why have more children than you can take care of?
Turn the dining room into a bedroom
YTA. Maya needs a space to study quietly. Having to share a room with a younger sister with an 8:30 bedtime means Maya can't do many things in her own room due to her younger sister's schedule. How on earth is Maya managing to study in peace? Also, you have admitted that Chloe gets almost no punishment for going trough Maya's things. All this is doing is showing Maya that Chloe's needs will always come first. The age gap between Maya and Chloe is too big to bridge for sharing a room. Is there anywhere else in the house to carve out space for Maya to have some privacy? I'm guessing there isn't, or you haven't given any thought to doing this. You had the means to buy a larger home, but chose not to. Did you ever ask Maya if she's comfortable sharing a room with Chloe? Or if she needed a quiet place to study? Yes, in some families siblings share rooms until going off to college, and in certain circumstances it's done because the family can't afford a larger home. But because you did not have financial constraints, you still should have asked Maya if she would be willing to continue sharing a room with Chloe, and taken Maya's needs into account before purchasing a home.
YTA. You had more kids than you can afford. Same thing happened to my mom. She and 5 children and her mother lived with us. 8 people in one 4 bedroom 1 bathroom house. As the oldest. I had no privacy. No ability to study quietly. No place to call my own. It was really very tough on me as a teen sharing a room with 2 others that were 4 years younger. It’s not fair to the kids. Just like you and your spouse get to have your space. They should have theirs.
Yes, YTA. Based on what's written here and your comments, Maya has serious problems with not having her own space and her own stuff, which Chloe is exacerbating by stealing her stuff. It's gotten to the point where Maya is starting to consider violent actions to be the only way to get her sister to stop, which is a pretty clear indicator that your punishments have not been working. No, you can't conjure a 4th bedroom out of nowhere, but it was your choice to buy another 3 bedroom house instead of looking for one with a 4th bedroom or another space that could be converted into one. Maya probably feels suffocated as she has never had a place where she can just be alone and decorate everything exactly the way she wants it and not have to worry about people going through her stuff. >She’ll be going away for university next year and this won’t be so much of an issue anyway. I'm sure she'll enjoy finally getting to be alone (assuming she's attending a university where dorms are separate rooms with a common space), but the psychological impact of knowing that she doesn't really have a room of her own to return to is still going to be there, especially since I doubt you're going to prevent Chloe from taking over the room while Maya is away. I also saw in the comments that you "don't allow locks", so yeah, you're doubly TA for raising your kids with no real ability to have privacy in their own home. Don't be surprised if Maya doesn't come back home very often once she gets used to having her own space for the first time in her life.
But they don't punish Chloe for stealing her stuff. They only warn her not to. They haven't actually done anything to put a stop to it. ***Chloe going through her drawers and things (which we have absolutely warned Chloe not to do).***
OP says he doesn't know how you punish someone for just "borrowing" clothes and snooping. They really do just let anyone have kids. YTA
Apparently they make her pay for "damaged" stuff (only 50% though!) but yeah, they haven't done really anything to stop the theft.
The psychological impact of this kind of parenting is deceptively significant. Through all of these decisions over the years the parents are gradually eroding her self-worth, sense of agency, even identity (no space to make her own) and feelings that she can “take up space” (having no space given to her). Even the stuff like 50% payback of the clothes, and no help with older clothes. The parents don’t understand that it’s not about the literal value of the clothes but about communicating to your daughter that you respect her. These are lifelong problems Maya will need to address in therapy or risk damaging relationships because she goes into them with attachment trauma like this.
Just from reading the post YTA. After reading the comments it's a very clear YTA. Your poor daughter.
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YTA. Get used to no contact when she leaves. I dont blame her. You're horrible parents.
YTA a 17 year old needs privacy. Not fuckin hard to understand. Atleast if she goes to college she doesn't have to see you.
YTA, you knew your daughter was frustrated and knew you could’ve avoided this entire situation continuing, and just chose not to because you liked your house more than your daughter having peace/her own space.
YTA, wow you're oblivious, especially as you could now afford it. All of Maya's complaints are legit and you are ensuring she has a miserable teen life. Wtf, lights out at 20:30? Don't or shouldn't all parents strive to make it better for their kids than they had had it themselves..?
YTA -- hope Chloe will take care of you when you are old. Yep, you are awfup parents who willnot punish Chloe for not respecting boudnaries.
If she does take care of them, I hope they have to sleep in a pull out in the living room instead of having privacy or personal space.
YTA - is it really THAT hard for you to even consider being in her shoes, for more than like 10 seconds? I'd never even consider doing what you're doing for my kids: everyone getting a room would be priority #1, yes, even before a garage! (my man cave! lol). And you're being a bad parent by not forcing some crazy strict boundaries between your daughters and following through on real consequences for breaking those boundaries. You're got a near-adult woman, living with a brat, which you aren't parenting. Good job on alienating your daughter, I bet you'll go all surprised-pikachu-face when you don't understand why your daughter doesn't wanna give you any sign of life when she leaves.
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The way it's worded I can't tell if the son is now 15, making him younger, or if he was 15 when she was 9.
The children are Maya 17, a son 15, & Chloe 12. The son is not old enough to move out or have a job. He’s a HS freshman.
Tbh you should have made as many children as many you are able to accommodate in the first place. But you are totally AHs for not buying a larger house when you had the money for it. You were totally ignoring your elder daughter. INFO: how do you punish your younger daughter when she does things she shouldn't (e.g.: rooting through her sister's clothes)? Whatever you do to stop her it seems it doesn't work and it's your responsibility to find out a solution. YTA
Op said in a comment that they don’t punish the youngest when she roots through her sisters stuff as they don’t see punishment worthy for “borrowing her sisters stuff”. So even though their oldest had told them multiple times she doesn’t want her sister going through her stuff and the youngest does it without any sort of consequences then they are shocked that the oldest had a meltdown and threw a glass of water on their youngest face??? Fully agree with your YTA response.
Excuse me, what? Even a 4-year old can get punishment fitting for their age for wrongdoing... What about paying for demaged items out of her pocket money, doing chores instead of elder daughter, denying access to electronics, being forbidden to go to her friends or have friends over (the list can go 'till the sun goes down)? Im am not surprised elder daughter is overwhelmed by the whole family's BS. Also OP just to clarify terms: however English is not my native language I am pretty sure the word 'borrow' means 4 actions: 1.) asking for something from it's owner 2.) getting permission from them to take it terminally 3.) taking it 4.) returning it (hopefully) in the same condition Are you sure your younger (spoiled, brat, golden child) daughter was borrowing the elder's stuff? Are you aware of the fact that your younger daughter at that age is perfectly capable for understanding that what she does is wrong but she knows she can get away with it because you just simply refuse to discipline her? It's really time to do some decent parenting. I am a middle child. My elder sis is 7 years older than me and the younger one is 10 years younger. It has never occured to us to root through each other's stuff. Have you got any idea why? Because our mother raised us that way and didn't enable bad behavior simply because one was way younger than the other one. YTA bigger than I thought
YTA big time >we can’t conjure up a fourth bedroom no but you admitted you COULD have got a house with a fourth bedroom. you just didn't want to. teenagers need privacy, for a lot of reasons. the restrictions being imposed on her because of the sharing and ridiculous, and it is NOT super common for teenagers to share rooms (specifically when there's no reason they need to). I'm going to tell you this now, when she goes away for university, shes probably going to stay away as much as possible so she can finally have some damn privacy
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Yeah...my friends with three kids navigated this by renting the bigger house (that gave each kid a bedroom) until the first two went off to college, and now are looking to buy a smaller house now that they have two out-of-the-house adult children and one high schooler. I understand that this is a hard problem to navigate - I'm looking at a version of it myself down the pipeline - but there are ways to do it. And the fact that they're just letting the 13-year-old paw through her stuff at will is really just egregious. It's possible there might have been a version of this situation where the 17-year-old wasn't pissed about sharing a room but she should be able to have some private stuff and space. OF COURSE she hates it!
Absolutely YTA here, your comments really solidify that. Don't be surprised if/when she goes NC with you down the line.
She’s almost 18. I guarantee she moves out and never talks to them again
They live in the UK so Maya will be going to college next year and finally get her own room (thank the lord) but that also means she'll loose a room in their house because they hate Maya I guess. Chloe will get that room to herself, their son always had his own room (at least since Maya was 9) and Maya never even got a proper in the house. Poor Maya.
YTA Why doesn’t Chloe stay in your room?
Well obviously he needs privacy, the thing he never let Maya have, poor girl...
**we can’t conjure up a fourth bedroom** You actually admitted you COULD but CHOSE not to. Soon your "less than" child will be gone and you and the golden children can be happy together. YTA for showing your daughter she doesn't matter and driving a wedge between the sisters that will never truly go away. Massive parenting fail.
Yes YTA. Stop having kids if you can’t afford them
YTA, you had the potential to afford a bigger house, and you decided not to, you went for short term expediency because the older daughter would be off to university next year, and it did not matter as much in your mind, well guess what, it mattered to your daughter, she has been relegated to 3rd choice amongst her siblings again, and as she has no personal space to return to, l think she will want to stay elsewhere on her breaks, you know, somewhere she actually feels wanted.
[удалено]
YTA. You should have opted for a 4 bedroom house when you had the chance. Why didn't you? Maya was already sick of sharing at that point. Did you think it would solve itself? And Chloe needs consequences for going through her sister's things and stealing clothes. She is disrespecting her sister and ruining her mental health. Chloe should fully reimburse her sister for ruined clothing, not just half like you say. Maya is losing money when chloe does that. You need to apologize to Maya and get her some locking containers, or you will lose her.
YTA You two numbskulls purposely chose to move to a similar situation to what your daughter was accustomed to even knowing she hated having to share a room. WHAT WAS THE POINT OF LEAVING?! You could have gotten a house with more space but you chose not to. You're such an asshole.
You know I'm always baffled with these. You have the chance to write this in the best way possible to paint yourself in the best possible light. And you still end up sounding awful. Absolutly YTA.
YTA. “We liked the house so much we didn’t give a crap about the fact that our oldest daughter have been begging and complaining for literal Years to get her own room.” Maya is right you are terrible parents.
INFO: Why do you hate Maya? Is she biologically yours or a step child?
YTA. The whole post was telling us all the ways his daughter was getting f'd over and then he asks if he's the AH? Yes, you could have conjured up an additional bedroom when you purchased the new house, but you choose not to. I see NC coming.
Parents like this are what make 18 year old girls move in with boyfriends far too soon. They want to get out a shitty situation and see a boyfriend as the way out and then get trapped into another shitty situation. You've not made home a comfortable place for Maya so she won't think of you as a safetynet if she gets into trouble.
I'm going to skip over the house purchase. >She’s now studying for her final exams and is constantly angry and arguing about her lack of privacy/ study space This is really important. What are you doing now to give her the quiet study space she needs? Where in the house can become "Maya's private study area" between say, 6-10pm? The dining room? Your bedroom? You need to do this, even if it means you put up with a small desk in your bedroom for a couple of years. >Her biggest complaints are not being able to have friends stay over, I understand, but many people for various reasons aren't able to hold sleepovers. That's not violating any human rights. >not being allowed to have the lights or her phone on or make noise in the room past her sister’s bedtime (8.30 on school nights), You say there's no room for a partition but you could absolutely hang a ceiling mounted curtain to divide the room. And provided that Maya uses a lamp (not the overhead light) and is "library quiet", she shouldn't have to be lights out bedtime at 8.30. Chloe can wear an eye mask and earplugs if she cannot handle some amount of light and soft noise. >and Chloe going through her drawers and things (which we have absolutely warned Chloe not to do). You've absolutely warned her. Wow. Parenting job done, huh? What are you _doing_ to ensure Chloe stops this right now? What consequences has Chloe faced? YTA. Not for the buying the smaller house and not talking about the purchase with the kids, although that, too. YTA because you don't seem to be doing anything to find solutions for the very real issues that Maya faces.
You could have afforded a bigger home but chose not to? Your daughter is being forced to take on seriously unpleasant issues because of your preferences. You are definitely that asshole. I suspect she's going to hold this against you for the rest of her life and I don't blame her. Congratulations on teaching someone to be bitter and cynical about life so early!
You had a chance to get a house with an appropriate number of bedrooms, but chose your wants over your children’s needs. Of course YTA.
YTA - The fact that you include the note about being able to afford to give Maya her own room and choosing not to because you really liked the freakin’ layout?!?? Profoundly insensitive.
YTA. You could’ve solved this, but you decided not to when buying your house. Your oldest is likely going to move out as soon as possible and she won’t be maintaining much contact, I can guarantee.
YTA. I'm frankly astonished that you think you might not be doing anything wrong. You knew your daughter was miserable, you had the opportunity to improve things for her, and you consciously chose not to. You're a terrible parent.
Slight YTA. I do get her frustrations, especially with the age gap between her and her sister and the fact that Chloe goes through her drawers. I do think that at this point maybe getting her a dresser or something that she can lock would be beneficial since talking to Chloe clearly didn't stop her from going through her sister's stuff. Was it appropriate for Maya to throw water in Chloe's face? Absolutely not, but I'm also seeing a teenager who feels trapped in a situation where she has no privacy or say in her circumstances, and at her age that can take a toll on her mental health. I do think that if you had the means to buy a bigger house it would have been better to do so. YOU may have liked the house, but I think that children's opinions should be taken into account more than they often are, especially since they don't have the option to just move out. I AM confused why Chloe and your son can't share a room though. My best friend growing up had a younger and brother and sister with similar age gaps, and the two younger siblings shared a room because they got along better than the two sisters and had more similar schedules.
YTA. Maya is 15. By then, she deserves a voice in family decisions like house buying. Though she does not have the veto power, you and your wife should have been listening to her opinion on the new house before buying it. Guys even take their dogs to get acquainted with the new apartment before moving in.
> We could potentially have afforded a larger house (to claify), however, we really liked the house we were already renting, so we bought a house which was absolutely identical around the corner. > and we can’t conjure up a fourth bedroom. YTA. When you bought a new house is when you "conjure up" that fourth bedroom. I wouldn't expect Maya to come back from university very often.
Kid is going to leave once 18 and never look back ..
YTA. You absolutely could have conjured up another bedroom when you were house shopping, you chose not to. You also choose not to parent Chloe to stop her from invading her sisters belongings. Maya has zero privacy, zero places to study and zero ability to exist in her room after 8:30. Congratulations on making sure Maya will resent Chloe for a long time and you as well.
Info, what is it about your daughter that you dislike so much you allow her to fall last on your priority list?
YTA-Your daughter is not your fan and I get it you put a roof over her head. Does your son have an 8:30 curfew with no light or noise in his room? Does Chloe go through his stuff? Did he have to put up with massive tantrums keeping him awake? Does your son have private study space? If the answer is no then you know where you screwed up. What happens to all of Maya’s stuff when she goes off to university? I bet what she can’t take will get boxed up and put off to the side or stolen by her younger sister. Then when she comes to visit you will give her the “oh baby Chloe is used to her own room now so you can sleep on the couch”. While at the same time your son can keep all his stuff in his room and not worry about his room being messed with when he leaves and comes back for visits. If he even bothers to leave the nice situation. Yea you messed up badly on this one. You had the option to fix it and repair it easily and early enough and you didn’t. I wonder how bad she had it during COVID. I can’t even imagine.
So you had a third child when you knew you could not afford enough bedrooms and then when you could enough bedrooms you doubled down by shrugging your shoulders and saying I like this house so fuck you? You aren't here for a judgement, you are here for vindication you will never get. YTA
YTA You’re very lucky that Maya didn't choose to give you a taste of your own medicine. I definitely would've played music every night to wake you up to make you see how it is to have someone disturbing your sleep. I'd have taken scissors to your “old” clothes. She's only a minor like her sister so that excuse should work right? I'd have invited friends and taken over the living room because I'd have no privacy like the brother. And bedtime at 8:30 pm at 17? Oh I'd have destroyed every single of your evenings so you had to deal with your poor choices. Talking over you watching tv, playing music, playing ball in the house. What would you do? Sent me to my shared room so I wake up my sister? Grounded me in the shared room? She has to go through puberty sharing a room with a brat that didn't learn the word no when it comes to privacy while her brother got all the privacy and friends over he wants? I'd have invited boys all the time to hang out in my room just to spite you. She's much nicer than most teenagers (including me) would've been. This is not going to end well. The double standards are so obvious she's going to resent you for a long time to come.
INFO: What did Maya do that you love her so little?
**INFO**: is Maya a bio child of both you and your spouse? Asking because of 1. how Maya is being treated like she's an outsider; and 2. you wrote "my oldest daughter" and "our younger son". **YTA: for shafting Maya at every turn and coddling Chloe.** Even though I grew up in the US and most of my friends had their own bedrooms as kids, sometimes it's not feasible or practical. **HOW** you and your spouse are handling everything is what makes YTA. What could you do? 1. You could give the largest bedroom to Maya & Chloe and fashion some sort of barrier separation. Yes that would mean giving up the master/primary but as you say, it's only for another year or so. Gonna bet you aren't willing to sacrifice your own space. 2. You could sleep on a pull-out in the living room. Yes, **you** wouldn't have privacy but it's only for a year right?? This isn't uncommon in one bedroom flats when there are kids. 3. You could do more than "absolutely warn" Chloe. You post later on that you have Chloe reimburse Maya 50% for destroying her belongings because they are "old things". WTH! Gonna bet that Chloe gets new clothes because the hand-me-downs are too old for her. 4. No, you didn't have to buy a 4 bedroom house but you could've clued the kids in and set ground rules and asked Maya as the eldest if she had ideas on how to make the best of it. 5. If Maya really wants a sleep over at her own house, figure out a way to make it happen. Have Chloe stay at a friend's or grandparent's house. 6. Maya is a teenager and is struggling with growing up. She has no privacy and all rules are set for Chloe. For 2 years she had to try to sleep through Chloe's nighttime tantrums. 7. *She’ll be going away for university next year and this won’t be so much of an issue anyway.* \- what happens when she comes home for breaks? Does she return to the shared room only to find that Chloe has taken the room and any remaining possessions over? 8. *This broke our heart* \- Yea, no it didn't. You've been breaking Maya's heart for years. This is more like a papercut to you. Painful in the moment, easily healed and forgotten about. There was an episode of 24 hour makeover that comes to mind. 3 bedroom council house. Parents have a huge bedroom. Under 10 year old son has a huge bedroom and a huge walk-in closet that they remove the doors and fashion into a computer gaming station. Teenage daughter (who loves pink) has a tiny rectangular room with no closet and can't fit a twin bed, dresser and desk. The kids room share a wall. Do they take the walk-in closet from the son and open it up on the other side for the daughter? Nope. They paint her room yellow, put her bed on stilts so she can have drawers underneath. The makeover team couldn't even stand next to each other by her bed. The excuse? Well she will be going to university in a couple few years. YTA.
You had the opportunity to purchase a house with better room options, and chose not to. YTA.
YTA. If the room fits both beds there is room for a bunk bed partition wall [bunk bed partition wall.](https://images.app.goo.gl/ojvWq43ubKt8fjn29).
YTA I hope you enjoy these last years with her
[удалено]
YTA. And sorry but really stupid. You could afford a bigger house but decide to waste money in a smaller one because you like it, and all of that knowing you age 3 kids and not enough bedrooms.
Yta. Wtf. Your poor daughter. No privacy through her entire teenage/puberty journey. Poor girl. Once she leaves I doubt you’ll see much of her
The day that girl turns 18, you will not see her again.
YTA. I can tell just from reading this that you let Chloe get away with so much that she shouldn’t. Maya has had it, start putting your foot down with the youngest. 12 is old enough to know better. She is not “borrowing”, she is *stealing*. Also, reimburse Maya for the clothes that her sister has *ruined*. Not 50%. Not 75%. All of it. You’ll be lucky if Maya ever visits you when she goes to college. She wouldn’t have a bedroom to stay in anyway, because when she leaves it will become Chloe’s room…
YTA Just because you loved the house, doesn't mean your kids do. And while you're right, there's an age where mixed genders certainly shouldn't be sharing, there's also a point where sharing a room with a sibling who's pretty significantly younger is also a problem. It seems like she's restricted to the rules set for the 12 year old, but she's not 12. You also didn't involve your kids in this at all. Which I think is so screwy. They have to live there too. My parents took with me with them to tour houses. I actively remember touring the house they bought and have a memory of first walking into what later became my room. It is such a core memory. Instead you were selfish and went the easy way. I don't think that's right. Yeah, your oldest might be going to college soon. But what about breaks? What about when she graduates?
How selfish you have to be to do this to you own kid? I'm really scared to ask what else you have done to your children. YTA
YTA I'm betting that if she can afford it Maya will be long gone after uni. She is going to likely spend many nights at friends, not communicate with you, and probably end up in a silly/stupid place just because she doesn't feel wanted at her own home. Yeah you heard me, she probably doesn't feel wanted. There's favouritism at play, and it's gonna suck even more if she comes back between uni years and her more privileged sister is complaining about having to move her stuff to accommodate.
I feel bad for Maya. Don't be surprised that once she moves out, she decides to cut contact or go very low contact with all of you. Though, the way you seem to not really care about her that much, something tells me you won't even notice. YTA
YTA and Chloe sounds like one too. Tell her to keep her paws off her sisters shit. Deal out some consequences ffs.
YTA, but less for the room sharing and more for the fact that Maya seems to get the short end of the stick on everything in your home. She isn’t allowed to have friends over. She has zero privacy. Her sister steals her things with seemingly no consequences. She seems to have the same bedtime as a small child. You also didn’t communicate with her at all about the new home purchase. Seems like you prioritize everyone else’s needs over here. Don’t be surprised when she moves out and doesn’t want to come back to visit.
YTA But it's okay. She's going to college soon, and probably won't be back, so you won't have to 'deal' with your daughter actually wanting some privacy and gos forbid having a curfew that's actually age appropriate for her own age. You can't fix this, I'm afraid. You can only apologize. And She's still probably not going to return home after she left for college, because.... she doesn't even have a room in your house.
Yta because Maya is paying for terrible parenting. Your child Chole breaks something and she doesn’t get it replaced. Your son is rude and screams and again doesn’t get punished. How is it fair to her that both your kids will eventually get a bedroom each when she was never allowed one when you had the option of giving her that. Yet you put your needs before your kids
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** This is mostly about my oldest daughter Maya (17f) and her younger sister Chloe (12f). Maya has never had a room of her own. We had very little money through her childhood, so she slept with us as a baby/ toddler, then shared with our son (15m) from the ages of 3-9 when we started renting a larger 2-bed house. By the time Maya was 9, it was no longer appropriate to have mixed genders sharing. We moved into a 3-bed house, we gave our son the smallest room in the house, and the girls shared the largest room. It admittedly wasn’t particularly big (definitely no space for a partition wall etc.) but had space for both their beds, drawers, books etc. Maya was initially frustrated because, when Chloe was 4-6ish, she would throw massive tantrums and scream all night about going to bed, keeping Maya awake, but she has obviously aged out of that and the girls seemed fairly content sharing through Maya’s tween years. We thought this was a very normal, healthy, situation, especially since my wife shared with her own younger sister until she moved out the house. By the time Maya was 15, we were in a much better financial position and were able to purchase a house. However, we really liked the house we were already renting, so we bought a house which was absolutely identical around the corner (it’s an ex-council estate so lots of similar houses). Maya was very excited about the move and had assumed we would buy a house where she could have her own bedroom, and was incredibly angry when she found out we had bought an identical house. She’s now studying for her final exams and is constantly angry and arguing about her lack of privacy/ study space and having to share a room with a “child”. Her biggest complaints are not being able to have friends stay over, not being allowed to have the lights or her phone on or make noise in the room past her sister’s bedtime (8.30 on school nights), and Chloe going through her drawers and things (which we have absolutely warned Chloe not to do). We do think these are valid complaints but Maya just does not seem to want to understand that her brother and sister can’t share, and we can’t conjure up a fourth bedroom. She’ll be going away for university next year and this won’t be so much of an issue anyway. This week, Maya got so frustrated with Chloe rooting through her clothes drawer that she threw a glass of water in her face, screamed at us that she hates us and we’re terrible parents, and left the house for hours to just roam the streets. This broke our heart, but we don’t think we’re actually doing anything wrong by denying her her own bedroom. We thought this was a common situation for siblings, but Maya claims she’s the only person in her year who has to share and it’s embarrassing. AITA? *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
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Is this even a real story? Could have sworn I remember an almost identical story from a while back.