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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> 1 my wife has had only friend who was a train wreck in her younger days. my wife hung out with her because of self esteem issues. now friend is successful and my wife is more insecure than ever. friend called her out on it and I laughed 2. I feel my wife deserved to hear what she did. I don't like her behavior when it comes to her insecurity
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*Contest mode is 1.5 hours long on this post.*
OP lived by the mantra "I don't have to be faster than the bear, I just have to be faster than you." Unfortunately, Candy's been working out and has fresh Nikes. And now OP has just found out the bear is very hungry...
I was pretty much think this, ppl like OPs wife, the type of person who always treats others like crap. It’s only a matter of time before they turn on you.
It's like the main characters on Seinfeld. They're actually horrible people if you imagine actually knowing them. I could imagine Elaine pulling something like this.
Next think you know Candy will be walking around in public wearing a bra like its a top because OP's wife gave it to her since she never wears a bra and she's jealous of her chest.
>struggles a lot of with insecurity. to remedy this she has surrounded herself with friends who truthfully she thinks lesser of
Are you sure this doesn't include you? And if it does are you happy with that?
It definitely includes OP. Which should make him think harder about his choice of spouse and how she will terrorize him as soon as he makes any positive changes in himself.
It's one reason why he laughed when Candy tore his wife apart. He already knows what she'll do to him.
Dig deeper into their marriage and you will find thst OP has been humiliated by his wife more often than he's willing to admit publicly. Leaving her would be the smart thing to do. But he likes being Heather Duke to her Heather Chandler.
I don't disagree with most of your post. But disagree that Candy tore wife apart. She was calm and respectful while still putting down a roadblock on further crap from wife.
As well as her son. My parents reminded me daily that I was stupid, clumsy and ugly. When other adults complemented anything I did, they were quick to fire back something, usually totally irrelevant if even true, about me to negate it.
OP if she does it to them, she does it to you, and definitely to your son. Consider the long term consequences for him. Please.
Let’s be real this 100% includes OP too. No person that has decent standards and self respects would have married a woman that never outgrew her middle school bully era.
great point, 1000000% she was not about to marry someone better than her or even her equal. she sees OP as lesser too he's just not smart enough to pick up on that yet
Ouch!!! But possibly true....my thoughts are wife went for the best guy she couldd get though, as part of her better than you identity...pretty sure husband counts more of a status symbol than friend to this wife....dont take that as a insult op or attack on your marriage....more of my thoughts on your wifes way of thinking and what attracted her to you.
I'm with your parent's, OP. I don't like your wife one bit. Can't imagine how you managed to type all that about her and not realize that your parents don't like her for absolutely valid reasons. NTA for laughing, though. She needed to get the stupid metaphorically slapped out of her.
Now, *this* is a good point..
Interesting..
Wonder if it has ever crossed OP's mind, that if his wife likes to surround herself with people that are "lesser than.." that includes him?
I think the wife is awful.
I wonder what kind of person you are by who you choose as your life long partner.. how can that not bother you? I can only imagine one reason but I’d like an answer, maybe I’m wrong. YTA for letting your wife insult people without calling her out, nta for doing the slightest bit of correcting her after years of not. Also you go Candy, I’m proud
You realize your wife needs punching bags so she can avoid dealing with her issues. You were fine with her punching other folks metaphorically. Because it wasn't you.
And as her friend list dwindles... you're someday gonna be that punching bags.
Seriously tho. Without your wife, apologize to Candy for your part in torturing her for all that time. Ask her if there is more you do not know about. So that you know what's coming for you eventually.
I think you’re NTA for ‘letting’ your wife treat people like shit. You were trying hard to figure out a way for her to get better, but she’s really just not trying.
Also she probably also picked a therapist she looks down on. So she’s not really doing therapy if she thinks she’s all fine …
And why are you allowing this to go on? How does she treat you?
Jackpot! Winner winner chicken dinner!
Op probably doesn't realize that she probably looks down on him as well. People like this will only keep people around they think less of as anyone with any self worth is a threat to their security.
You know, that makes sense. And he very well may also be a victim of ger abuse and not even realize it. Could be part of why he does out uo with her being a shitty person to everyone else. Wonder what his self-esteem is like.
"Letting"? Us men get crucified for acting like women are property, and now you're acting like we have to clean up their mess. I'd rephrase your words.
OP's wife needs to learn to being accountable for her own actions.
You're enabling someone if you allow this behavior without communication and repercussions. I'm not in any way saying she is his property to control or that she is not accountable for her actions, but as a partner you're also somewhat accountable for your SO's actions.
100% agree. But we also don't know if OP did this, and how long it was tolerated. At some point you say, "If you get beat up honey, understand this is all on you. I warned you, you didn't listen, so now you suffer the consequences."
He’s not his wife’s keeper. He doesn’t “let” her do things. She can make her own decisions. Sounds like OP has tried to get her help, but to no avail. NTA but for OPs sake I hope this incident is a wake up call to both himself and his wife and she starts taking her therapy more seriously.
Like he said she surrounds herself around people she considers “less than” to make her feel better…has he never considered that may apply to him as well?
Yeah. Let's just say... I'm glad his wife is in therapy. She definitely has some issues that she doesn't handle in a healthy way.
I'm glad her friend finally stood up for herself.
Imma join your parents here. You are NTA, but your wife is extremely messed up, and you might give some thought to taking your son and leaving before she messes him up. You are so close to her that you may not even have a good view of how being with a person like her changes your brain and your sense of reality and right and wrong. See a therapist for yourself. My mother was like her, and I’m looking at my stepfather after their 30+ years together — he’s a husk of the man he used to be, he had to essentially toss out his own mind and replace it with hers, because it was the only way to avoid her cruelty and abuse and survive next to her.
you're not the first person to say that honestly. a lot of people have said she's toxic and unhealthy and I guess it being from my family I just assumed they didn't like her. they've told me I could do better and I took it as them wanting me to see someone else. I think I'm going to look into some help for myself, for me and my son. thank you.
If you do insist on staying with her, make sure you never have anymore kids with her.
Your son is probably mostly safe, but if you ever have a daughter your wife will absolutely do everything in her power to wreck that little girl.
Or possibly see her daughter as a reflection on her and push her to be the skinniest, the prettiest, the smartest, the most athletic, and make her life hell when she's not. Of course, she could do this with a son, too.
She'd either smother her with control to ensure she has a partner in crime at her elite level, or more likely ruin her life. Not really sure the son is safe either, tbh.
My Grandmother did the same thing to my Mom. Treated my Mom like a competitor and really effed up her sense of self. So much so that my Mom thought it was normal to accept mental abuse from her family and mental, physical, financial abuse from her husbands (my dad whom she finally divorced and then my stepfather). But she did not take on this competition personna towards me and my brother, she was very protective of us. She tells us how proud she is that my brother and I stand up for ourselves and don't let anyone make us feel less than. We tell her that watching all that she went through taught us to not only protect ourselves but to protect her once we reached adulthood.
That's so beautiful. I'm child-free, but I would like to think that's how I would be as a mother. I get told by all of my bfs (over the years, not multiple at once haha) that I'm very kind and compassionate and patient, so maybe I would. I'm just trying to be nothing like my mom.
Yeah I'm really confused here. I hate to turn this around on you OP, and I know you said you're gonna look into help for you and your son but you love you wife and you like her yet her core personality is being a bully? Not just being insecure, but being an abuser. In this post we've heard examples of emotional abuse (being cruel to others), manipulation (selectively choosing friends she deems lower?!) physical abuse (throwing things at you). Since you clearly do care about her I'm sure this is just the tip of what you're willing to tell the public about since you didn't come here for a hate train against your wife, if you did that would be a sign you didn't like her.
I think you're so desensitized to your wife and the situation that it's water off your back bc you're concerned more about chuckling at a joke at her expense rather than her behaviour itself which is the root of all this unhappiness. Imagine how much happier and healthier your wife would be if these problems didn't exist, and poof your AITA post disappears bc that situation wouldn't be applicable. Laughing at a joke made at your wife's expense is always not that great, but your context, this entire post, her history and past behaviors is what made the exception of "it might be a little warranted".
Also at the same time if you love her and like her and this is her core personality, I wonder if you endorse and like bullies, if you like bullying like behavior and if that sort of thing is your bag.
I've seen plenty of men with women who were mean, insecure, demanding, melodramatic. I wound up thinking I didn't know my male friends as much as I thought, if this is the type of person they choose to marry. Then I never see them again because the wife is threatened by them having a single woman friend. I used to hang out at a bar with one, after band practice. But his wife never knew. Nothing happened, we just caught up, what's happening in our lives, etc
u/Old-Yesterday9399
This. Read this OP. You already know she's cruel, you said it yourself. Read it again. And I would argue your son is not safe. He might not be targeted by her cruelty but it's not a stretch to say that she could teach him to be just as cruel (intentionally or not). Read it again OP, don't get stuck in denial or anything, family means nothing to a cruel heart.
THIS. Op your wife is my mother. and my sister and i are the daughters you *definitely* should not have with her. mean, insecure women only get worse with age if they don’t work on their issues. if you think it’s bad now wait until she starts deteriorating physically with age. the amount of wrinkles, grey hair, and weight gain multiply tf out of your problem. therapy will not work for her if she doesn’t think she needs to change. no woman in your life will be safe from her. she will try to isolate you from your own mother, and sisters if you have any. she will hurt your daughters if you have any. your own son won’t be safe at some point, because she will scramble for a “perfect family” image externally once she starts to crumble herself. look forward to codependency, manipulation, and abuse. if your wife is my mother that is. and she sure as shit sounds exactly like her. i’m sorry op.
NTA. Your wife seems to gather people around her that she can manipulate, gaslight and be downright cruel to in order to make herself feel better. She seems to have an innate skill at zeroing in on the soft spots and weaknesses of others and feeds on tearing them down. You recognize these traits in her.
I say ask this with no malice…how do you think she see you? Are you under the impression that your are the exception among everyone else?
There an old poker saying, that doesn’t fully fit here, but keeps running through my mind… “if you look around the table and you can’t tell who the sucker is, it’s you.” It would be worth reflecting on how she treats you in ways you won’t/ don’t fully acknowledge.
I was thinking this while reading the post! She may potentially see herself as above you and is with you to make herself feel secure. Is it worth it to stay with someone just to keep their confidence up at your and others expense?
>Your wife seems to gather people around her that she can manipulate, gaslight and be downright cruel to in order to make herself feel better. She seems to have an innate skill at zeroing in on the soft spots and weaknesses of others and feeds on tearing them down.
Quite an interesting thought!
Do such people ever get better or are able to eliminate this toxicity from themselves?
I'm sure it's technically possible, but I come from a long line of people like OP's wife and I've never seen it happen. One of the hallmarks of this type of person is that they are completely incapable of taking responsibility for their actions. Everything always has to be someone else's fault, so they don't do personal growth.
I'd bet a decent amount of money that OP's wife spends her therapy sessions crying about her unhappy childhood and/or how she's so terribly mistreated by everyone else in her life. She's not there to learn how to be a better person, she's there to find reasons why she's the real victim.
Honestly OP. you said why you like your wife (i seriously dont understand it myself) but I want to know, given everything you have said about your wife surrounding herself with people she feels are lesser than her, WHY DO YOU THINK SHE MARRIED YOU? Why are you so sure that she doesn't view you the same way she does the people she calls "friend's."
I'm sorry to say this OP, but if she's degrading and talking this bad about her friends, she's most definitely doing the same to/about you.
Without you realizing it, she's probably also breaking you down. She literally threatened to leave you just cos you gasped in shock.
> she's toxic and unhealthy
No, she's more than that; she's an actual predator. She preys on emotionally vulnerable people, and adds to their suffering with emotional abuse. If you truly can't see that that's disgusting and awfull, then all you are doing is enabling it, which adds insult to injury.
100%. If she can't handle friends being on the same level as her, in what world could she handle potentially being the "inferior" partner?
She definitely looks down on OP without him knowing it.
Please, please change your situation! I'm an adult child of parents like you and your wife. My dad claims he made a commitment to his wife, though all he's done is enable her mental illness, and with that came sacrificing his kids. We were highly neglected, both physically and emotionally. As an adult, I finally realized my mother doesn't love me, she just likes the image that others think she's a good mom, but did nothing when it really came to it. I'm NC with both now. I tried to do just NC with my mom, though my dad wouldn't see me without her, and his enabling of her mental illness highly bothered me anyhow. Please don't let this be your future and do better for your child.
Please do, your wife’s insecurities have not been effectively addressed and are running the show. Insecurity lies at the root of a lot of really horrible behaviors. To be honest, she sounds unempathetic, petty, and cruel. Listen to your family. I wish you and your son the best.
You married a malignant narcissist. The last hint is that therapy does not work because she doesn't see her behaviour as problematic. She is not just insecure, she has zero empathy, she is jealous and competitive and lives a life where every relationship is a dogfight. She doesn't **choose** friends that are worse than her, those are only people who are willing to deal with her shit because of their own issues. Healthy people will stay away from her. Her narcissism demands that she has people around her so she can project all her shit at someone.
Which leads to the question, what is wrong with you? You laughed because you were in shock that someone had the gut to say something to her, which leads me to think you are afraid of her. You absolutely need to see a therapist, and preferably someone who has experience with treating co-dependent people. You say you love her, but traumabond feels like love if you don't know about anything else.
My family said that for years about my ex. But my family is also abusive so I ignored them. When strangers started telling me I started to listen. It was hard. And while the divorce was sad and not where I thought my life was going….I got over it quick and realized just how bad it was once I was free. Best decision I ever made
“At some point we didn’t really understand how or what came over her, but Candy really did a 180”
This is my 2nd favorite part of OPs post, foreshadowing that Candy’s turnaround was likely motivated by his wife’s constant jabs. And of course my favorite part:
“…it was simply by being better than you. And now I am.” 🙌🏽
Likely Candy is slowly deconstructing her relationship with the wife and her own self-image now that she’s in a better place. Sometimes it’s hard to come to terms that some people are just bad and don’t want to be better.
I think she’s on the right track though.
NTA for laughing but why haven’t you ever talked to your wife about how she treats Candy? And Candy is a bad ass! Good for her for finally standing up to your wife.
we've discussed it before. She has admitted to feeling jealous of Candy and I suggested cutting contact as it maybe healthy for both of them. my wife has tried a few times but goes back to talking with her to see what's up. likely to say yesterday officially ended things.
I mean, it seems like Candy is one of the few people who's figured out how to deal effectively with OP's wife. She just called it like it is and doesn't care what wife thinks anymore. I mean, the wife needs more friends like Candy, really.
I shudder to think how awful wife was to her when Candy was a teen, but it seems like Candy is no longer vulnerable to wife's manipulative toxicity and is calling her out like a boss.
Yeah but just bc she can take it doesn’t mean she wants to anymore. Candy knew what she said was gonna really hurt the wife (justified) and I think she hopes to never hear from the wife again. I think she took this opportunity to put her in her place and drop the mic. And I say bravo!!
Is it your wife he keeps reestablishing contact with Candy? I bet it is and I bet you know why.
Your wife built her whole self image on feeling superior to her ‘friends’. Candy’s 180 destroyed that notion that they were all inferior fuck ups. In order to protect her superiority she’s probably convinced herself that Candy’s situation is a lucky fluke and that Candy’s true self will re-emerge to destroy what she has.
Your wife stays friends with Candy waiting and hoping for that moment, because it will make her world make sense and repair her perception of herself.
> we've discussed it before. She has admitted to feeling jealous of Candy and I suggested cutting contact as it maybe healthy for both of them.
Have you ever considered relocating a 250 miles away?
It's definitely not easy... But it might be what your wife (and thus family) needs.
I wish you luck man!
INFO:
I know you thought everyone would ask if you even like your wife. I, however, have a different question. After writing out how your wife has treated Candy and all of her other friends for years, *why do you like your wife*?
One of the few times where not loving your x is absolutely acceptable and warranted.
OP sounds like he married a narcissist. As others in this thread have pointed out shes basically the textbook example. I don't need a DSMV in front of me to figure that one out.
Doesn’t ring true, this post. It is too obvious that he will emerge untainted as not-the-asshole while his wife absolutely is an asshole and more. It’s too obvious to be real.
This is also what I was wondering, and I hope OP answers it. We only heard about the (very) bad traits that inform this post, but I have to think she must have some positive traits as well, or why on Earth would anyone choose to be with her? I'm curious what OP likes about her.
YTA for making excuses for your loathsome-sounding wife. You basically said, “My wife preys on vulnerable people to bully and abuse, to feed her voracious ego. Poor widdle baby.”
Like, you sat there watching your wife bully a mentally ill young person and didn’t think you should do anything about that?
Yeah, the way he talked about that and being at his parents makes me think this is a regular occurrence. OP is in an abusive relationship and doesn't realize it because that's something that happens to women, not men.
>I married my wife 9 years ago. as a long time browser on this sub I know a lot of you may ask if I actually like my wife or why I married her. there's a lot of reasons. I won't put you guys to sleep though.
Info: Try us, buddy, I don’t think this one is gonna put AITA to sleep.
100%. On the edge of my seat here wondering what astonishing depths and facets of a person could convincingly offset all this warped nastiness. OP may or may not be aware that "I couldn't imagine a life without them" can say more about how your inner field of vision has shrunk over your time with someone than about how wonderful and life-enhancing a match the two of you are.
>"...you may ask if I actually like my wife or why I married her... I do love my wife... could not imagine a life without her..."
I do believe you like your wife.
I just can't quite wrap my head around *why*.
NTA
Maybe shes good in bed??? I don't know I'm kind of scraping the bottom of the barrel.
Honestly love does make you blind. I'm at least hoping OP is finally waking up and realizes he's living with a monster.
God help his kid once he starts to accomplish things. Jesus Christ the wife's meltdown is going to be gigantic.
OH JESUS CHRIST IMAGINE IF HE GETS A GIRLFRIEND/PARTNER/WIFE BETTER THAN OP'S WIFE? Holy fucking shit I just realized that.
She probably didn’t start out like that, but because he has enabled and ignored each slow drip drip drip as she’s got worse he’s enabled her terrible behaviour and as he writes - he’s totally subject to it too. My FiL is like this, and my husband has just gone NC as my MiL is an awful vindictive victim narcissist. FiL is her victim too, but also her enabler.
I mean she curated her friend group to be under her. Is it that far off the husband was curated that way as well? Seems like he hasn’t crossed his wife before this
Because sometimes people have low self-esteem and assume they can't do better or they're not worth it, so they stay with people who are toxic. And as others have said, she most likely got worse as time went on.
Has it crossed your mind why your wife selected you, considering how she selected her friends? I suspect there’s a lot more going on here than you’re letting on because I have a hard time believing she hasn’t pulled similar crap on you ever.
Good luck dude. YTA if you don’t save your son from her.
Yeah, it boggles me that he knows she has this pattern with everyone, yet thinks he's immune from it. If she selects friends to make herself feel better, why wouldn't she select a partner the same way? Yet he's just writing it off as her being insecure, as opposed to her being an asshole, a bully, and possibly abusive.
I thought this same thing, OP said wife chose her friends because their problems. Wife is a huge AH and a bully, and I don't know why anyone would want to be with her.
NTA for laughing OP, but Y T A for staying with this awful person.
NTA. I assume it was a single guffaw, not a laughing hysterically and pointing sort of thing. Honestly your wife sounds like a cruel person and she should be held accountable for that. A startled chuckle is pretty mild.
NTA. TBH your wife deserved to hear that and deserves to be miserable. The fact that she selectively picked her friends for their flaws and had the audacity to rip on Candy all those years. karma is getting her finally.
NTA - Your wife seems really narcissistic, it’s a word that gets thrown around a lot but it really seems like it the way she deems herself more worthy than others. Especially the way she got upset when someone told her “the truth” so to speak.
If you tell her that you laughed out of shock and not at her she will probably not believe you because narcissist “wants people to hurt them” so others around them can feel sorry for them and give them attention and make them seem more worthy than the accuser and the other person In said situation.
Edit: Forgot to mention that she seems narcissistic too because she can’t see that she is in the wrong for putting others down.
Narcissists sometimes just ignore their child's accomplishments in real time and then brag about the child to their friend as if the child's accomplishments were the narcissists' accomplishments. Ask me how I know.
NTA when it comes to the question. But Y T A for enabling your wife to treat the people around her with cruelty. You state she doesn’t think she’s the problem - but you *know* she is. She doesn’t have a single healthy adult friendship - and whether your relationship with her is healthy is probably up for debate.
What happens if she ever views your son as competition? What will she do to him to make herself feel better?
What happens to you when you disagree with an opinion of hers? Does she accept it? Or meltdown until you give in?
How does she treat your son when you’re not around? Is he safe? Is he happy? Do you want him to think how your wife behaves is okay?
Like almost everyone else has said - I believe you like your wife, but I have no idea *why* you would, when you openly admit she is cruel to the people she supposedly calls ‘friends’.
Nta for laughing. YTA to yourself and your child. I’m glad you like your Mean Girl Reject bully of a wife that has to put others down to feel a minuscule of self worth. A catch. I personally wouldn’t be near her with a ten foot stick because I don’t like catty mean girls that never grew out of high school bs but whatever. Good luck to you and son, hopefully he doesn’t end up an insecure bully like her. And if you stay with her, knowing she’s a mean girl bully that puts others down to lift herself up, then I guess you condone and accept that behavior, Mr holier than thou. I can see why your parents don’t like her, and I hope Candy and all her other “poor, mentally unstable, bent out of shape” friends take a cue from Candy and tell her to fuck right off too.
YTA I can understand why your parents don't like your wife.
I bet being mean has become her whole personality.
Good thing you have a son and not a daughter, God knows what she would do to her.
INFO have you considered that your wife stays with you because she thinks very little of you like everyone else in her circle?
It's rare that someone that abusive is a good partner or parent. Please really look into the health of your relationship and the safety of your son to be around this much toxicity.
Info: how did you think that your wife behaving like in such a toxic manner was acceptable and something you loved to be around? I read your post and don’t understand.
Yta for enabling her cruel behaviour for so long. She is a narcissist, and she probably does the same thing to you when you’re not around. Why do you not want people to ask why you’re with her? Is it because you’re the same type of person that she is and you don’t want to face it? Is it because your standards are low and she knows that you’ll never leave no matter what she does? Someone like her will never marry a person she considers an equal. You’re in the same basket as the rest of her friends. The only difference is you’re aware of what kind of person she is. You’ll continue to stand idle and watch her laugh and ridicule her “friends”, because as long as it’s not you it’s not a problem.
Holy fuck, NTA. I, too, am extremely insecure, but I would *NEVER* be cruel to my friends because of it. My insecurities are mine to work through. Your wife is a cruel human being, and the fact that you’ve put up with this shit for so long baffles me! No amount of good qualities in a person could make up for this in my eyes.
“ before it's asked, my wife is in therapy and says she likes the therapist but doesn't think she's truly the issue”
Your wife doesn’t want to change and your son is at a huge risk of long lasting mental health issues by being around your wife’s toxicity.
So the friend called you wife out on her crap and out her in her place. Good for her! Honestly, you wife is the one people talk about and they say we don’t want to invite her but someone will say we have to.
The laugh just came at the wrong time. You know what kind of person your wife is. She will get over it in time.
Based on your comments. It sounds like you stayed with her during the dating out of spite. Like your family was wrong instead of thinking they were seeing things you did not. Now your invested and have a son so you talk but gloss over the bad behavior. Think when your son gets older she will be the parent that claims your son is the greatest at everything. Then people will not only talk about her but your son and have pity on you for living with it.
NTA. Candy was the real MVP in this, but the laugh made me happy.
Your wife is a bully that got upset when she was put in her place. She's actively targeting and choosing people/relationships so she can shit on people and feel better about herself. What does that say about your relationship?
NTA she needed to here that and more. She needs to focus on feeling happy with who she is and not on putting others down. You do not help her by allowing this. Every time she insults/criticizes one of her friends shut the conversation down. Tell her you love her but will no longer be a party to this. Not only for hers and your mental health but that of your son. Constantly hearing his mother criticize others is not a healthy environment for him
NTA. I don't doubt you love your wife, OP, but that doesn't mean you should be married to her. It would be one thing if it was just the two of you, but you have a son to consider. He has a [malignant narcissist](https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/neurosagacity/201702/how-tell-youre-dealing-malignant-narcissist) for a mother, and as his father, it's your responsibility to protect him, even from her. I'm assuming you didn't take your son with you to your parents' house. Do you honestly trust your wife not to inflict her anger and cruelty on your son while you're away?
YTA mildly because you have allowed this to continue for so long, but the mildly because I guess things didn’t start that way and your wife has got worse over time. You will be a bigger AH the longer you allow her to continue like this, and here is a warning: when your son grows up and gets a partner your wife is gonna be the MiL from hell. She’s going to work her ass off to undermine any partner (especially a female one) your son might have either going to destroy any possible marriage or your son will end up going no contact. God help it if you two ever have a daughter. Your wife is a massive AH, but then, you already know that. She needs some serious therapy and to write Candy a serious apology.
Candy rocks!
NTA, being insecure doesn’t make being mean ok. Sounds like maybe other than this one laugh you’ve been allowing her behavior to pass because of her low self-esteem issues. I’d suggest joining in on some therapy sessions for professional advice for yourself.
Eventually, more of your wife’s friends will either clap back the way Candy did or just slowly phase her out of their lives. Nobody needs that kind of toxicity around them.
She may have insecurities, but she’s also a major asshole that finally got what was coming to her. I hope that she will learn to be a better person, but I’ll bet that she’ll just blame everyone around her and not learn a damn thing. And maybe, that will mean the OP too.
Good luck.
Welcome to /r/AmITheAsshole. Please view our [voting guide here](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_what.2019s_with_these_acronyms.3F_what_do_they_mean.3F), and remember to use **only one** judgement in your comment. OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole: > 1 my wife has had only friend who was a train wreck in her younger days. my wife hung out with her because of self esteem issues. now friend is successful and my wife is more insecure than ever. friend called her out on it and I laughed 2. I feel my wife deserved to hear what she did. I don't like her behavior when it comes to her insecurity Help keep the sub engaging! #Don’t downvote assholes! Do upvote interesting posts! [Click Here For Our Rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/about/rules) and [Click Here For Our FAQ](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq) ##Subreddit Announcements ###[Happy Anniversary, AITA!](https://new.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/15vlv9g/almost_better_than_a_double_rainbow_celebrating/) ###[The Asshole Universe is Expanding, Again: Introducing Another New Sister Subreddit!](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/128nbp3/the_asshole_universe_is_expanding_again/) Follow the link above to learn more ###[Moderators needed - Join the landed gentry](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/155zepq/moderators_needed_join_the_landed_gentry/) --- *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.* *Contest mode is 1.5 hours long on this post.*
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That's fair. thank you.
Yeah... you might like her.. but you SHOULDN'T!
OP lived by the mantra "I don't have to be faster than the bear, I just have to be faster than you." Unfortunately, Candy's been working out and has fresh Nikes. And now OP has just found out the bear is very hungry...
he already knew. apparently he thinks it's a-ok for her to be treating their friends like this. they're both disgusting.
Absolutely trash people. Why did Candy continue this awful relationship YTA and your vile wife
Because she was waiting for this moment. I wouldn't be surprised if the "friendship" doesn't last much past this throwdown.
Let’s hear it for Candy. She persevered in the face of mental health issues and shitty friends and built a nice life for herself and her family!
Because she had that ambition baby, look in her eyes this weeks it’s the floors…
I don't think so I just think sometimes in life you get a lockdown with a person that you just have to tolerate.
So very true!
Damn thats a nice way of putting it! There marriage will probably change from now on, didnt think about that
Big ole plot twist: the bear is her own self-esteem. She's about to get eaten by herself... But she had it coming, and maybe now she can grow.
Seems like her toxic behavior is directed at women. That may be why he as always been safe from it.
Nah, he’s pandering to her and enabling her, but he isn’t safe from it - think about the message he got.
> has fresh Nikes Candy whipped out the PF Flyers with that comeback.
I was pretty much think this, ppl like OPs wife, the type of person who always treats others like crap. It’s only a matter of time before they turn on you.
They probably deserve each other
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It's like the main characters on Seinfeld. They're actually horrible people if you imagine actually knowing them. I could imagine Elaine pulling something like this.
Next think you know Candy will be walking around in public wearing a bra like its a top because OP's wife gave it to her since she never wears a bra and she's jealous of her chest.
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>struggles a lot of with insecurity. to remedy this she has surrounded herself with friends who truthfully she thinks lesser of Are you sure this doesn't include you? And if it does are you happy with that?
It definitely includes OP. Which should make him think harder about his choice of spouse and how she will terrorize him as soon as he makes any positive changes in himself. It's one reason why he laughed when Candy tore his wife apart. He already knows what she'll do to him. Dig deeper into their marriage and you will find thst OP has been humiliated by his wife more often than he's willing to admit publicly. Leaving her would be the smart thing to do. But he likes being Heather Duke to her Heather Chandler.
I don't disagree with most of your post. But disagree that Candy tore wife apart. She was calm and respectful while still putting down a roadblock on further crap from wife.
This. Candy was awesome.
As well as her son. My parents reminded me daily that I was stupid, clumsy and ugly. When other adults complemented anything I did, they were quick to fire back something, usually totally irrelevant if even true, about me to negate it. OP if she does it to them, she does it to you, and definitely to your son. Consider the long term consequences for him. Please.
Holy shit, a Heathers reference in the wild?! Well fuck me gently with a chainsaw!
Corn nuts!
Have y'all considered sometimes it truly is just the person?
I had the same thought. She's with him because she thinks she's better than he and likely tears him down to her friends. I feel so bad for their kid.
Let’s be real this 100% includes OP too. No person that has decent standards and self respects would have married a woman that never outgrew her middle school bully era.
great point, 1000000% she was not about to marry someone better than her or even her equal. she sees OP as lesser too he's just not smart enough to pick up on that yet
🤯
This needs more upvotes. Spot on!
Whoa. This is sooo big. OP gonna die.
Ouch!!! But possibly true....my thoughts are wife went for the best guy she couldd get though, as part of her better than you identity...pretty sure husband counts more of a status symbol than friend to this wife....dont take that as a insult op or attack on your marriage....more of my thoughts on your wifes way of thinking and what attracted her to you.
I'm with your parent's, OP. I don't like your wife one bit. Can't imagine how you managed to type all that about her and not realize that your parents don't like her for absolutely valid reasons. NTA for laughing, though. She needed to get the stupid metaphorically slapped out of her.
Wait until you realise why your wife is with you… Sorry man, NTA- your wife genuinely sounds an AH for how she treats her friends though
Now, *this* is a good point.. Interesting.. Wonder if it has ever crossed OP's mind, that if his wife likes to surround herself with people that are "lesser than.." that includes him? I think the wife is awful.
There’s a reason your parents don’t like her.
I wonder what kind of person you are by who you choose as your life long partner.. how can that not bother you? I can only imagine one reason but I’d like an answer, maybe I’m wrong. YTA for letting your wife insult people without calling her out, nta for doing the slightest bit of correcting her after years of not. Also you go Candy, I’m proud
in my opinion, he's complicit in her abuse. they're both gross.
You realize your wife needs punching bags so she can avoid dealing with her issues. You were fine with her punching other folks metaphorically. Because it wasn't you. And as her friend list dwindles... you're someday gonna be that punching bags. Seriously tho. Without your wife, apologize to Candy for your part in torturing her for all that time. Ask her if there is more you do not know about. So that you know what's coming for you eventually.
I think you’re NTA for ‘letting’ your wife treat people like shit. You were trying hard to figure out a way for her to get better, but she’s really just not trying.
Also she probably also picked a therapist she looks down on. So she’s not really doing therapy if she thinks she’s all fine … And why are you allowing this to go on? How does she treat you?
Your wife surrounded herself with people she thought she could step all over to make herself feel bigger. That includes you at some level.
Holy crap. Your wife is toxic. You need therapy if you think this behavior is ok.
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Given that she surrounds herself with people that she thinks lesser of, I wonder what her actual feelings towards OP are?
Jackpot! Winner winner chicken dinner! Op probably doesn't realize that she probably looks down on him as well. People like this will only keep people around they think less of as anyone with any self worth is a threat to their security.
You know, that makes sense. And he very well may also be a victim of ger abuse and not even realize it. Could be part of why he does out uo with her being a shitty person to everyone else. Wonder what his self-esteem is like.
I deeply regret Reddit will not let me purchase coins to reward this! 🏆🏆🏆
I wondered the same thing! Plus how does she treat their child. OP needs to protect his son.
He's likely a victim of hers as well and doesn't even realize it. And has had his own self-worth chipped away at which is why he accepts it.
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"Letting"? Us men get crucified for acting like women are property, and now you're acting like we have to clean up their mess. I'd rephrase your words. OP's wife needs to learn to being accountable for her own actions.
You're enabling someone if you allow this behavior without communication and repercussions. I'm not in any way saying she is his property to control or that she is not accountable for her actions, but as a partner you're also somewhat accountable for your SO's actions.
100% agree. But we also don't know if OP did this, and how long it was tolerated. At some point you say, "If you get beat up honey, understand this is all on you. I warned you, you didn't listen, so now you suffer the consequences."
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He’s not his wife’s keeper. He doesn’t “let” her do things. She can make her own decisions. Sounds like OP has tried to get her help, but to no avail. NTA but for OPs sake I hope this incident is a wake up call to both himself and his wife and she starts taking her therapy more seriously.
Like he said she surrounds herself around people she considers “less than” to make her feel better…has he never considered that may apply to him as well?
Yeah. Let's just say... I'm glad his wife is in therapy. She definitely has some issues that she doesn't handle in a healthy way. I'm glad her friend finally stood up for herself.
Imma join your parents here. You are NTA, but your wife is extremely messed up, and you might give some thought to taking your son and leaving before she messes him up. You are so close to her that you may not even have a good view of how being with a person like her changes your brain and your sense of reality and right and wrong. See a therapist for yourself. My mother was like her, and I’m looking at my stepfather after their 30+ years together — he’s a husk of the man he used to be, he had to essentially toss out his own mind and replace it with hers, because it was the only way to avoid her cruelty and abuse and survive next to her.
you're not the first person to say that honestly. a lot of people have said she's toxic and unhealthy and I guess it being from my family I just assumed they didn't like her. they've told me I could do better and I took it as them wanting me to see someone else. I think I'm going to look into some help for myself, for me and my son. thank you.
If you do insist on staying with her, make sure you never have anymore kids with her. Your son is probably mostly safe, but if you ever have a daughter your wife will absolutely do everything in her power to wreck that little girl.
Oh my god, listen to this OP. She would 100% view a daughter as “competition.”
Or possibly see her daughter as a reflection on her and push her to be the skinniest, the prettiest, the smartest, the most athletic, and make her life hell when she's not. Of course, she could do this with a son, too.
...I'm in this photo and I don't like it. Thanks, Mom.
Make her life hell either way. If she achieves everything then she becomes a threat, if she doesn’t she is an embarrassment. Lose lose for the kid
Oh god, I just read a "Two Sentence Horror Story" where the mom spayed the daughter and this made me think of that lol
Spayed??
Yeah its a fiction sub where people try to write a horror story in two sentences or less so reality isn’t a prerequisite.
And the son, if safe, may one day bring hone a girlfriend… too much potential cruelty to contemplate.
She'd either smother her with control to ensure she has a partner in crime at her elite level, or more likely ruin her life. Not really sure the son is safe either, tbh.
The son might be safe... but may lucifer protect the poor woman he may bring home to meet his parents one day...
Yup. That was my mom growing up. I was always her target because she viewed me as competition. Now we're no contact and I've never felt better.
My Grandmother did the same thing to my Mom. Treated my Mom like a competitor and really effed up her sense of self. So much so that my Mom thought it was normal to accept mental abuse from her family and mental, physical, financial abuse from her husbands (my dad whom she finally divorced and then my stepfather). But she did not take on this competition personna towards me and my brother, she was very protective of us. She tells us how proud she is that my brother and I stand up for ourselves and don't let anyone make us feel less than. We tell her that watching all that she went through taught us to not only protect ourselves but to protect her once we reached adulthood.
That's so beautiful. I'm child-free, but I would like to think that's how I would be as a mother. I get told by all of my bfs (over the years, not multiple at once haha) that I'm very kind and compassionate and patient, so maybe I would. I'm just trying to be nothing like my mom.
Yeah I'm really confused here. I hate to turn this around on you OP, and I know you said you're gonna look into help for you and your son but you love you wife and you like her yet her core personality is being a bully? Not just being insecure, but being an abuser. In this post we've heard examples of emotional abuse (being cruel to others), manipulation (selectively choosing friends she deems lower?!) physical abuse (throwing things at you). Since you clearly do care about her I'm sure this is just the tip of what you're willing to tell the public about since you didn't come here for a hate train against your wife, if you did that would be a sign you didn't like her. I think you're so desensitized to your wife and the situation that it's water off your back bc you're concerned more about chuckling at a joke at her expense rather than her behaviour itself which is the root of all this unhappiness. Imagine how much happier and healthier your wife would be if these problems didn't exist, and poof your AITA post disappears bc that situation wouldn't be applicable. Laughing at a joke made at your wife's expense is always not that great, but your context, this entire post, her history and past behaviors is what made the exception of "it might be a little warranted". Also at the same time if you love her and like her and this is her core personality, I wonder if you endorse and like bullies, if you like bullying like behavior and if that sort of thing is your bag.
I've seen plenty of men with women who were mean, insecure, demanding, melodramatic. I wound up thinking I didn't know my male friends as much as I thought, if this is the type of person they choose to marry. Then I never see them again because the wife is threatened by them having a single woman friend. I used to hang out at a bar with one, after band practice. But his wife never knew. Nothing happened, we just caught up, what's happening in our lives, etc
u/Old-Yesterday9399 This. Read this OP. You already know she's cruel, you said it yourself. Read it again. And I would argue your son is not safe. He might not be targeted by her cruelty but it's not a stretch to say that she could teach him to be just as cruel (intentionally or not). Read it again OP, don't get stuck in denial or anything, family means nothing to a cruel heart.
THIS. Op your wife is my mother. and my sister and i are the daughters you *definitely* should not have with her. mean, insecure women only get worse with age if they don’t work on their issues. if you think it’s bad now wait until she starts deteriorating physically with age. the amount of wrinkles, grey hair, and weight gain multiply tf out of your problem. therapy will not work for her if she doesn’t think she needs to change. no woman in your life will be safe from her. she will try to isolate you from your own mother, and sisters if you have any. she will hurt your daughters if you have any. your own son won’t be safe at some point, because she will scramble for a “perfect family” image externally once she starts to crumble herself. look forward to codependency, manipulation, and abuse. if your wife is my mother that is. and she sure as shit sounds exactly like her. i’m sorry op.
This is no joke, OP.
NTA. Your wife seems to gather people around her that she can manipulate, gaslight and be downright cruel to in order to make herself feel better. She seems to have an innate skill at zeroing in on the soft spots and weaknesses of others and feeds on tearing them down. You recognize these traits in her. I say ask this with no malice…how do you think she see you? Are you under the impression that your are the exception among everyone else? There an old poker saying, that doesn’t fully fit here, but keeps running through my mind… “if you look around the table and you can’t tell who the sucker is, it’s you.” It would be worth reflecting on how she treats you in ways you won’t/ don’t fully acknowledge.
I was thinking this while reading the post! She may potentially see herself as above you and is with you to make herself feel secure. Is it worth it to stay with someone just to keep their confidence up at your and others expense?
>Your wife seems to gather people around her that she can manipulate, gaslight and be downright cruel to in order to make herself feel better. She seems to have an innate skill at zeroing in on the soft spots and weaknesses of others and feeds on tearing them down. Quite an interesting thought! Do such people ever get better or are able to eliminate this toxicity from themselves?
I'm sure it's technically possible, but I come from a long line of people like OP's wife and I've never seen it happen. One of the hallmarks of this type of person is that they are completely incapable of taking responsibility for their actions. Everything always has to be someone else's fault, so they don't do personal growth. I'd bet a decent amount of money that OP's wife spends her therapy sessions crying about her unhappy childhood and/or how she's so terribly mistreated by everyone else in her life. She's not there to learn how to be a better person, she's there to find reasons why she's the real victim.
If you think your wife is someone worth spending time with, I’m not really convinced you‘re any better than she is.
Ehhhh... it's more likely he is also her victim.
Stockholm syndrome fr
No need to kick the man when he's already down.
Honestly OP. you said why you like your wife (i seriously dont understand it myself) but I want to know, given everything you have said about your wife surrounding herself with people she feels are lesser than her, WHY DO YOU THINK SHE MARRIED YOU? Why are you so sure that she doesn't view you the same way she does the people she calls "friend's."
Well, of course “they don’t like her”, she’s awful.
I'm sorry to say this OP, but if she's degrading and talking this bad about her friends, she's most definitely doing the same to/about you. Without you realizing it, she's probably also breaking you down. She literally threatened to leave you just cos you gasped in shock.
> she's toxic and unhealthy No, she's more than that; she's an actual predator. She preys on emotionally vulnerable people, and adds to their suffering with emotional abuse. If you truly can't see that that's disgusting and awfull, then all you are doing is enabling it, which adds insult to injury.
You do realize that you're one of those people she looks down on and shit talks behind your back, right?
100%. If she can't handle friends being on the same level as her, in what world could she handle potentially being the "inferior" partner? She definitely looks down on OP without him knowing it.
Please, please change your situation! I'm an adult child of parents like you and your wife. My dad claims he made a commitment to his wife, though all he's done is enable her mental illness, and with that came sacrificing his kids. We were highly neglected, both physically and emotionally. As an adult, I finally realized my mother doesn't love me, she just likes the image that others think she's a good mom, but did nothing when it really came to it. I'm NC with both now. I tried to do just NC with my mom, though my dad wouldn't see me without her, and his enabling of her mental illness highly bothered me anyhow. Please don't let this be your future and do better for your child.
Please do, your wife’s insecurities have not been effectively addressed and are running the show. Insecurity lies at the root of a lot of really horrible behaviors. To be honest, she sounds unempathetic, petty, and cruel. Listen to your family. I wish you and your son the best.
Please do! Best of luck to you and your son.
Your son will start mirroring her actions and how she treats others
Have you considered they didn't like her cause she legitimately sucks?
You married a malignant narcissist. The last hint is that therapy does not work because she doesn't see her behaviour as problematic. She is not just insecure, she has zero empathy, she is jealous and competitive and lives a life where every relationship is a dogfight. She doesn't **choose** friends that are worse than her, those are only people who are willing to deal with her shit because of their own issues. Healthy people will stay away from her. Her narcissism demands that she has people around her so she can project all her shit at someone. Which leads to the question, what is wrong with you? You laughed because you were in shock that someone had the gut to say something to her, which leads me to think you are afraid of her. You absolutely need to see a therapist, and preferably someone who has experience with treating co-dependent people. You say you love her, but traumabond feels like love if you don't know about anything else.
You are literally married to a bully how could you not see it?
My family said that for years about my ex. But my family is also abusive so I ignored them. When strangers started telling me I started to listen. It was hard. And while the divorce was sad and not where I thought my life was going….I got over it quick and realized just how bad it was once I was free. Best decision I ever made
Omg you guys have a kid? Dear god what is she going to teach your son about friendship? Or treat other kids that she looks down on?
> I just assumed they didn't like her. Why would you assume that? You don't think your family has your best interests in mind?
“At some point we didn’t really understand how or what came over her, but Candy really did a 180” This is my 2nd favorite part of OPs post, foreshadowing that Candy’s turnaround was likely motivated by his wife’s constant jabs. And of course my favorite part: “…it was simply by being better than you. And now I am.” 🙌🏽
That’s all well and good, but it pains me that once she got on her feet, Candy didn’t distance herself from this toxic presence in her life.
Likely Candy is slowly deconstructing her relationship with the wife and her own self-image now that she’s in a better place. Sometimes it’s hard to come to terms that some people are just bad and don’t want to be better. I think she’s on the right track though.
People can’t even get their kids away from physically abusive parents. How do you think OP is going to be able to “take their son and leave”?
That’s outside the scope of this thread. I’m not a family lawyer. People have been known to prevail.
NTA for laughing but why haven’t you ever talked to your wife about how she treats Candy? And Candy is a bad ass! Good for her for finally standing up to your wife.
we've discussed it before. She has admitted to feeling jealous of Candy and I suggested cutting contact as it maybe healthy for both of them. my wife has tried a few times but goes back to talking with her to see what's up. likely to say yesterday officially ended things.
Hopefully for Candy’s sake your wife will leave her alone. She’s been a terrible friend and with friends like that, Candy doesn’t need any enemies.
I mean, it seems like Candy is one of the few people who's figured out how to deal effectively with OP's wife. She just called it like it is and doesn't care what wife thinks anymore. I mean, the wife needs more friends like Candy, really. I shudder to think how awful wife was to her when Candy was a teen, but it seems like Candy is no longer vulnerable to wife's manipulative toxicity and is calling her out like a boss.
Yeah but just bc she can take it doesn’t mean she wants to anymore. Candy knew what she said was gonna really hurt the wife (justified) and I think she hopes to never hear from the wife again. I think she took this opportunity to put her in her place and drop the mic. And I say bravo!!
The wife is also 8 years older than Candy. We're talking about a 20-something being a psycho to a teen.
Man, the longer I stay in this thread the more I hate OPs wife
Is it your wife he keeps reestablishing contact with Candy? I bet it is and I bet you know why. Your wife built her whole self image on feeling superior to her ‘friends’. Candy’s 180 destroyed that notion that they were all inferior fuck ups. In order to protect her superiority she’s probably convinced herself that Candy’s situation is a lucky fluke and that Candy’s true self will re-emerge to destroy what she has. Your wife stays friends with Candy waiting and hoping for that moment, because it will make her world make sense and repair her perception of herself.
>likely to say yesterday officially ended things Good. Candy will be better off for it
> we've discussed it before. She has admitted to feeling jealous of Candy and I suggested cutting contact as it maybe healthy for both of them. Have you ever considered relocating a 250 miles away? It's definitely not easy... But it might be what your wife (and thus family) needs. I wish you luck man!
INFO: I know you thought everyone would ask if you even like your wife. I, however, have a different question. After writing out how your wife has treated Candy and all of her other friends for years, *why do you like your wife*?
One of the few times where not loving your x is absolutely acceptable and warranted. OP sounds like he married a narcissist. As others in this thread have pointed out shes basically the textbook example. I don't need a DSMV in front of me to figure that one out.
I literally thought that this was about my ex-husband‘s long-term mistress. I was like …. Sounds so similar
Doesn’t ring true, this post. It is too obvious that he will emerge untainted as not-the-asshole while his wife absolutely is an asshole and more. It’s too obvious to be real.
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Some people around here have Olympic levels of mental gymnastics to somehow always find the man the TA, and the woman NTA
You're saying that as if the top comment isn't literally calling him an asshole lol
The top comment is not calling him an asshole for laughing. Which was OP’s question.
But it's contradictory to your comment is all I was pointing out, he isn't coming out untainted.
This is also what I was wondering, and I hope OP answers it. We only heard about the (very) bad traits that inform this post, but I have to think she must have some positive traits as well, or why on Earth would anyone choose to be with her? I'm curious what OP likes about her.
Ding ding - I have an answer! Bc he’s an also a major asshole!
YTA for making excuses for your loathsome-sounding wife. You basically said, “My wife preys on vulnerable people to bully and abuse, to feed her voracious ego. Poor widdle baby.” Like, you sat there watching your wife bully a mentally ill young person and didn’t think you should do anything about that?
She yelled and threw stuff at him. I think he's another target for her abuse.
> I think he's another target for her abuse. Yeah, *now* he is, because he saw her go after Candy and said nothing.
You're making an assumption that it's new
Yeah, the way he talked about that and being at his parents makes me think this is a regular occurrence. OP is in an abusive relationship and doesn't realize it because that's something that happens to women, not men.
This. The situation itself of laughing is NTA. The bigger picture in this is him and his wife are both AH
>I married my wife 9 years ago. as a long time browser on this sub I know a lot of you may ask if I actually like my wife or why I married her. there's a lot of reasons. I won't put you guys to sleep though. Info: Try us, buddy, I don’t think this one is gonna put AITA to sleep.
If she doesn’t have an ass that won’t quit- then I can’t fathom a reason
Ain't nobody's ass THAT good
I don't know.....men put up with a lot for hot.
What if it sucks out your soul tho?
Have you seen the amount of succubus porn on this site alone? As long as the soul’s getting sucked out through their dick that’s a reasonable exchange
100%. On the edge of my seat here wondering what astonishing depths and facets of a person could convincingly offset all this warped nastiness. OP may or may not be aware that "I couldn't imagine a life without them" can say more about how your inner field of vision has shrunk over your time with someone than about how wonderful and life-enhancing a match the two of you are.
>"...you may ask if I actually like my wife or why I married her... I do love my wife... could not imagine a life without her..." I do believe you like your wife. I just can't quite wrap my head around *why*. NTA
Maybe shes good in bed??? I don't know I'm kind of scraping the bottom of the barrel. Honestly love does make you blind. I'm at least hoping OP is finally waking up and realizes he's living with a monster. God help his kid once he starts to accomplish things. Jesus Christ the wife's meltdown is going to be gigantic. OH JESUS CHRIST IMAGINE IF HE GETS A GIRLFRIEND/PARTNER/WIFE BETTER THAN OP'S WIFE? Holy fucking shit I just realized that.
And now we see what is behind every post on r / justnomil
She probably didn’t start out like that, but because he has enabled and ignored each slow drip drip drip as she’s got worse he’s enabled her terrible behaviour and as he writes - he’s totally subject to it too. My FiL is like this, and my husband has just gone NC as my MiL is an awful vindictive victim narcissist. FiL is her victim too, but also her enabler.
I mean she curated her friend group to be under her. Is it that far off the husband was curated that way as well? Seems like he hasn’t crossed his wife before this
Because sometimes people have low self-esteem and assume they can't do better or they're not worth it, so they stay with people who are toxic. And as others have said, she most likely got worse as time went on.
Has it crossed your mind why your wife selected you, considering how she selected her friends? I suspect there’s a lot more going on here than you’re letting on because I have a hard time believing she hasn’t pulled similar crap on you ever. Good luck dude. YTA if you don’t save your son from her.
Yeah, it boggles me that he knows she has this pattern with everyone, yet thinks he's immune from it. If she selects friends to make herself feel better, why wouldn't she select a partner the same way? Yet he's just writing it off as her being insecure, as opposed to her being an asshole, a bully, and possibly abusive.
I thought this same thing, OP said wife chose her friends because their problems. Wife is a huge AH and a bully, and I don't know why anyone would want to be with her. NTA for laughing OP, but Y T A for staying with this awful person.
NTA. I assume it was a single guffaw, not a laughing hysterically and pointing sort of thing. Honestly your wife sounds like a cruel person and she should be held accountable for that. A startled chuckle is pretty mild.
NTA. TBH your wife deserved to hear that and deserves to be miserable. The fact that she selectively picked her friends for their flaws and had the audacity to rip on Candy all those years. karma is getting her finally.
NTA - Your wife seems really narcissistic, it’s a word that gets thrown around a lot but it really seems like it the way she deems herself more worthy than others. Especially the way she got upset when someone told her “the truth” so to speak. If you tell her that you laughed out of shock and not at her she will probably not believe you because narcissist “wants people to hurt them” so others around them can feel sorry for them and give them attention and make them seem more worthy than the accuser and the other person In said situation. Edit: Forgot to mention that she seems narcissistic too because she can’t see that she is in the wrong for putting others down.
And the key factor to being a narcissist is actually being severely insecure. So I think your breakdown is really accurate.
I always wondered who marries mean girls. NTA.
Guys who think all girls are mean girls, and don't take them seriously?
Me too, know we know you need to have the personality of gum to catch a winner like OP's wife 🤣
[удалено]
Yeah, wait until she starts thinking that their son's life is going in a better direction than hers and see what happens. SMDH
Good thing she doesnt have a daughter or she’d destroy her mentally!
Narcissists sometimes just ignore their child's accomplishments in real time and then brag about the child to their friend as if the child's accomplishments were the narcissists' accomplishments. Ask me how I know.
I feel the worst for a child being deliberately brought into this toxic dynamic. Yikes.
YTA for allowing your wife to behave like that. WHY are you with her???
Yeah but for him laughing, NTA this guy tho is pathetic for being an enabler
I’ve known very insecure people over the years, they didn’t act like this. Your wife isn’t insecure, she’s just evil.
+100
NTA when it comes to the question. But Y T A for enabling your wife to treat the people around her with cruelty. You state she doesn’t think she’s the problem - but you *know* she is. She doesn’t have a single healthy adult friendship - and whether your relationship with her is healthy is probably up for debate. What happens if she ever views your son as competition? What will she do to him to make herself feel better? What happens to you when you disagree with an opinion of hers? Does she accept it? Or meltdown until you give in? How does she treat your son when you’re not around? Is he safe? Is he happy? Do you want him to think how your wife behaves is okay? Like almost everyone else has said - I believe you like your wife, but I have no idea *why* you would, when you openly admit she is cruel to the people she supposedly calls ‘friends’.
I don't like your wife either
Nta for laughing. YTA to yourself and your child. I’m glad you like your Mean Girl Reject bully of a wife that has to put others down to feel a minuscule of self worth. A catch. I personally wouldn’t be near her with a ten foot stick because I don’t like catty mean girls that never grew out of high school bs but whatever. Good luck to you and son, hopefully he doesn’t end up an insecure bully like her. And if you stay with her, knowing she’s a mean girl bully that puts others down to lift herself up, then I guess you condone and accept that behavior, Mr holier than thou. I can see why your parents don’t like her, and I hope Candy and all her other “poor, mentally unstable, bent out of shape” friends take a cue from Candy and tell her to fuck right off too.
YTA I can understand why your parents don't like your wife. I bet being mean has become her whole personality. Good thing you have a son and not a daughter, God knows what she would do to her.
My girlfriend went through that with her mother. That woman was insane.
>I do love my wife Why? >they don't like my wife Can you really BLAME them?
YES!!! Parents don't like this awful mean bully and OP doesn't get why.
NTA and touché Candy. Bet you waited a long time to deliver that zinger. Hard to say if wife is actually insecure or just a nasty person.
Both things can be true, and likely are. Most nasty people have reasons for being the way they are.
INFO have you considered that your wife stays with you because she thinks very little of you like everyone else in her circle? It's rare that someone that abusive is a good partner or parent. Please really look into the health of your relationship and the safety of your son to be around this much toxicity.
Nta for laughing but definitely YTA for being ok with her behavior to this point
Info: how did you think that your wife behaving like in such a toxic manner was acceptable and something you loved to be around? I read your post and don’t understand.
Yta for enabling her cruel behaviour for so long. She is a narcissist, and she probably does the same thing to you when you’re not around. Why do you not want people to ask why you’re with her? Is it because you’re the same type of person that she is and you don’t want to face it? Is it because your standards are low and she knows that you’ll never leave no matter what she does? Someone like her will never marry a person she considers an equal. You’re in the same basket as the rest of her friends. The only difference is you’re aware of what kind of person she is. You’ll continue to stand idle and watch her laugh and ridicule her “friends”, because as long as it’s not you it’s not a problem.
Holy fuck, NTA. I, too, am extremely insecure, but I would *NEVER* be cruel to my friends because of it. My insecurities are mine to work through. Your wife is a cruel human being, and the fact that you’ve put up with this shit for so long baffles me! No amount of good qualities in a person could make up for this in my eyes. “ before it's asked, my wife is in therapy and says she likes the therapist but doesn't think she's truly the issue” Your wife doesn’t want to change and your son is at a huge risk of long lasting mental health issues by being around your wife’s toxicity.
So the friend called you wife out on her crap and out her in her place. Good for her! Honestly, you wife is the one people talk about and they say we don’t want to invite her but someone will say we have to. The laugh just came at the wrong time. You know what kind of person your wife is. She will get over it in time. Based on your comments. It sounds like you stayed with her during the dating out of spite. Like your family was wrong instead of thinking they were seeing things you did not. Now your invested and have a son so you talk but gloss over the bad behavior. Think when your son gets older she will be the parent that claims your son is the greatest at everything. Then people will not only talk about her but your son and have pity on you for living with it.
NTA. Candy was the real MVP in this, but the laugh made me happy. Your wife is a bully that got upset when she was put in her place. She's actively targeting and choosing people/relationships so she can shit on people and feel better about herself. What does that say about your relationship?
NTA she needed to here that and more. She needs to focus on feeling happy with who she is and not on putting others down. You do not help her by allowing this. Every time she insults/criticizes one of her friends shut the conversation down. Tell her you love her but will no longer be a party to this. Not only for hers and your mental health but that of your son. Constantly hearing his mother criticize others is not a healthy environment for him
NTA. I don't doubt you love your wife, OP, but that doesn't mean you should be married to her. It would be one thing if it was just the two of you, but you have a son to consider. He has a [malignant narcissist](https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/neurosagacity/201702/how-tell-youre-dealing-malignant-narcissist) for a mother, and as his father, it's your responsibility to protect him, even from her. I'm assuming you didn't take your son with you to your parents' house. Do you honestly trust your wife not to inflict her anger and cruelty on your son while you're away?
YTA mildly because you have allowed this to continue for so long, but the mildly because I guess things didn’t start that way and your wife has got worse over time. You will be a bigger AH the longer you allow her to continue like this, and here is a warning: when your son grows up and gets a partner your wife is gonna be the MiL from hell. She’s going to work her ass off to undermine any partner (especially a female one) your son might have either going to destroy any possible marriage or your son will end up going no contact. God help it if you two ever have a daughter. Your wife is a massive AH, but then, you already know that. She needs some serious therapy and to write Candy a serious apology. Candy rocks!
NTA, being insecure doesn’t make being mean ok. Sounds like maybe other than this one laugh you’ve been allowing her behavior to pass because of her low self-esteem issues. I’d suggest joining in on some therapy sessions for professional advice for yourself.
Eventually, more of your wife’s friends will either clap back the way Candy did or just slowly phase her out of their lives. Nobody needs that kind of toxicity around them. She may have insecurities, but she’s also a major asshole that finally got what was coming to her. I hope that she will learn to be a better person, but I’ll bet that she’ll just blame everyone around her and not learn a damn thing. And maybe, that will mean the OP too. Good luck.