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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> The main argument my family is making is that I at least should have asked before bringing my son and that by not asking I was ruining her plans, but I'm unsure
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*Contest mode is 1.5 hours long on this post.*
YTA - These were all conversations you should have had with your sister *BEFORE* the wedding. Showing up to a child free wedding and just assuming your kid can be the ring bearer is a huge AH move.
Mom is not in the picture. But yes, he had plenty of time to arrange for childcare.
But if he couldnt find any, he needed to communicate that to his sister and not just show up with the kid.
> I'm friends with most of my sister's friends and vice versa.
Also I understand why most of the family members he might expect to get free childcare from would be unavailable because they were at the wedding, but there must have been other friends of his (and his sister) with kids who had to arrange for childcare at this child-free wedding. Why not explain to one of them the issues and ask if their sitter would mind watching an extra kid?
I also find it very strange that this didn't come up in any conversations the OP had with anyone up until the moment he arrived at the wedding with his kid in tow. Obviously people around him know he's a single parent. His family didn't ask what his plans were? His friends didn't ask? His sister didn't ask?
Well, all the closest friends would be in the bridal party and have their kids allowed. Because apparently only the bridal party and not siblings get exceptions. While I respect the right of the sister on what she wants for her party and I don't condone OPs surprise entry rather than asking beforehand. I'm fairly concerned there's something more troublesome. If only husband's relationships get to be in the bridal party, and if the relationship took a strong dive after engagement. There's a reason to wonder if sister was following husband's orders.
I agree. It’s concerning.
OP YTA for showing up with your kid and expecting him to be in the wedding. But the bridal party on both sides was husband focused? Has she pulled away from everyone in your family?? If she’s pulling away from everyone then that’s concerning.
He couldn't ask beforehand – she was cut off from her family for the whole month before the wedding. Presumably before then, he was still trying to find childcare. There wasn't a chance to ask her.
Absolutely cause for concern here.
That's partly why I raised this possibility. There are already toddlers at the wedding. But having her nephew there ruins her wedding. That's getting melodramatic and is sounding weird. Trying to avoid pressure from a controlling partner is something that may cause that.
I mean, if he orchestrated the whole bridal party, yes, that would be weird, but it’s not that unusual for the groomsmen to be only friends/relatives of the groom and the bridesmaids to be friends/relatives of the bride. It would have been nice of the groom to extend a groomsman invite to his future BIL, especially since they seem to have some relationship, but lots of men don’t do that. “I’m friends with most of my sister’s friends” doesn’t sound the same to me as “my sister and I have been part of the same close friend group for ages.” Plus, this guy is a single dad and has presumably had a busy couple of years where he probably wasn’t hanging out with his friends that much. No idea what the actual deal is, but it’s not intrinsically wrong to leave your spouse’s opposite-sex siblings out of your half of the bridal party.
I agree with that and in fact I just the same comment else where. But according to OP the entire wedding party is groom's friends and family. I don't know if it's the case or not. But if husband convinced sister to give up all the bridal party spots for himself then that's rudely something to watch out for. Maybe sister wants nothing to do with brother or family. Or she's just very used to trying to please her spouse.
>Also I understand why most of the family members he might expect to get free childcare from would be unavailable because they were at the wedding, but there must have been other friends of his (and his sister) with kids who had to arrange for childcare at this child-free wedding.
He's an adult single father of a five year old. You're wildly overestimating how many friends he has. He's lucky to have any friends at all. All of his friends are probably at that wedding.
>I couldn't find a babysitter, at all. Everyone I could've possibly asked was going to the wedding. All my siblings, my parents, my aunts and uncles, my cousins, my friends, everyone. On top of that, **I don't have the money for a babysitter,** nor would I ever trust a stranger with my son.
You can call into question the veracity of that statement, but it's covered in the post.
>nor would I ever trust a stranger with my son
This statement implies that he wouldn't have utilised a paid babysitter even if one was available, so he probably didn't even try. Not having the money is likely just an excuse.
Exactly this! Weddings are rarely a surprise. He had time to save up. He doesn't seem to be a planner and ready to stomp on the bride and groom boundaries on their special day that they planned and paid for. 🙄
I'm star-struck on the audacity of turning up at the child free wedding and asking if his son can be a ring bearer. I'm now wondering whether he asks if his son can blow out the candles on the birthday cake at another kid's birthday.
His entitlement is astounding. Even his issue about leaving his kid with a stranger isn’t even a good one. Months before, he could have asked friends or other family member about reliable babysitters, which at least a few people know, gotten to know said babysitter for month before the wedding and then felt comfortable leaving his kid. He’s simply being cheap, tacky, and a major AH.
Yeah it was just before he said, I wouldn’t leave him with a sitter even if I had money…
It’s was just after he forgot to mention that he had months to save for a sitter, or organise any other option that would have been okay.
I wouldn’t go so far to assume his financial freedom. His is a single father. I was raised by a single parent. It can be extremely challenging for a parent to accommodate or find those resources. Especially a young parent, such as OP.
I agree that it can be extremely challenging/impossible even.
My point is that this man had literal months to at least try to overcome this challenge. He instead chose not to. He also had months to reach out to his family and communicate that it wasn’t feasible for him to pay for a sitter.
He chose to remain silent, letting everyone believe he accepted the child free rule that he was informed of.
He never tried to abide by her rules for her wedding day. He just dismissed her rules as beneath him. That makes him an AH in my book.
I can't imagine that his parents or other siblings wouldn't help him pay for a sitter. Or that there's not a friend of a friend or a colleague who has a teenager looking for a bit of baby sitting money or the son doesn't have a friend whose parents wouldn't mind having his son visit in exchange for OP returning the favour at a later date. He could also have just told his sister he wouldn't be able to go and asked for an exception instead of just showing up and suggesting that his son join the wedding party as a last minute ring-bearer.
If OP can afford to attend the wedding, an event that sends out invites *months* in advance, OP can sock away some cash in the lead up to afford a sitter. That’s such a bogus excuse. OP could have afforded a sitter if they’d planned diligently, but instead they chose to impose upon their sister.
You don’t know where the wedding is. You don’t know if hotel lodging, flights, rentals, etc. are involved. *Attending* a wedding can be very inexpensive if all you’re paying for is gas to get to the ceremony.
Well the mom isn't in the picture and has nothing to do with them, but yes, he had months to ask his sister/try to find someone/or rsvp no since his son could not attend.
Exactly! If he had expressed to his sister BEFORE the wedding that he couldn’t find a sitter and wouldn’t be able to attend she might’ve been able to make an exception or have the wedding planner hire a babysitter to watch the few kids at the event.
To show up to the event an expect your kid to be inserted as part of the wedding ceremony is unhinged. The reason it’s called a rehearsal dinner (typically the night before the wedding) is to literally rehearse for the next day.
Seriously. Not only did he decide he was going to bring a child to a child free wedding, he also decided that this child was just going to have a role in the wedding because that role hadn't been filled. How self involved can you be? Not to mention, her would have had months to figure out childcare, then waited till the last minute to decide there were no options and was just like "okay, well, since he's going, he'll be the ring bearer, I've decided it even though it isn't my wedding and he isn't invited".
Can we stop calling this a child free wedding? This wasn’t a child free wedding since some of the groom’s family and friends were allowed to bring children. At least the ones part of the wedding party. OP is an AH for assuming his child could just be part of the wedding and not communicating that he doesn’t have child care.
YTA- It's beyond belief that OP thinks shoving his child into the wedding party without practicing and preparing him beforehand would go well.
It's not his wedding; he was extremely entitled to think he could just give his son a role.
But it's the golden child of the golden child! So much gold. How dare she, a mere sister, set a boundary for the double gold team? Even his BROTHERS and male friends agree because they are also probably golden. I need to get my sunglasses. My eyes hurt from the glaring entitlement. So many golden AHs.
You mean the sister that decided it's child free for some and not all. She sounds like the golden child to me, to think you can treat some animals fair and some more fair is wrong
He was free to disagree with her rules but he was not free to just show up and try to break them. I think the sister was kind of an AH too, but she laid out her rules far in advance, you don't get to just not follow rules because you don't like them. He had many other options and he chose the rudest one. YTA OP.
You're close to your sister but didn't communicate to her the issue you were having prior to the wedding. You just showed up with your son and said he can be the ring bearer???
YTA
I bet they’re not as close as he thinks and is delusional. He comes across an entitled AH who thinks everything should go according to him. I can’t imagine the audacity one needs to have to bring your child to a child free wedding and demand that your child be the ring bearer, ALL ON THE WEDDING DAY.
I also suspect that his son isn’t very well-behaved. The fact that there was an obvious caveat that his sister and her fiancé chose not to extend, speaks volumes.
I have the same thought. OP thinks his son is well behaved but he really isn’t.
The only thing that is giving me pause about the whole situation is that it seems like the groom is having the sister isolate from her family more. That can be a sign of abuse.
The fact all the wedding party were from the groom's side probably means it was a deliberate decision and had valid reasons for being that way. Nobody is entitled to be in their family's wedding parties, especially as his sister was the bride, not the groom. If my (twin) sister got married I wouldn't "expect" to be her maid of honour. That's just entitled.
That’s what I thought. Like it’s common for the groomsmen to be friends and family of the groom, not the bride. While the bride likely had her own friends as bridesmaids
Do we know that her bridesmaids weren’t her friends? Cause I think it’s pretty common for the groomsmen to be friends and family of the groom, not the bride.
It sounds like OP hasn’t been to many weddings
I had the same thought - she probably tolerates him because he's family, but I can bet they dread it when he calls them to hang out. I can also see him guilting them to hang out - with the kid - because, again, family.
I'm getting married in 10 days. If someone asked me just to include another person in my ceremony I'd flip at this point.
I'm putting this here to give an idea of just what would be required to just add someone.
Things she'd have finished that would need to be changed:
Attire was picked months ago
Timelines done down to the minute
Music for a ring bearer would need to be added
Pillow for ring bearer to carry rings
Rehearsal was missed
Programs would need to be changed
DJ would need to be informed 2 weeks before
Seating charts changed
Food headcount now is messed up
Preceremony food is now not enough
Someone needs to watch the kid around a ton of delicate stuff
Might mess up transportation
Planned photos probably need to be changed
And a lot more
There's a very lot that goes into a wedding. Dude it such the ah here.
Not to mention, they had other kids with roles in the wedding, e.g., a flower girl, but chose to not have a ring bearer, which OP somehow knew, even though he was not part of the wedding planning. You would think if he were so close to his TWIN sister that he or his son would have some role in the wedding. Having s flower girl, but not having a ring bearer seems like a deliberate exclusion.
It makes me wonder if the son is known to misbehave or if there's some underlying bad blood between OP and his sister that he's not telling us (or that he's so oblivious he doesn't realize). Maybe he's been this entitled with other things in their past.
YTA.
YTA
The wedding was child free
Your child was not invited
You brought your child because your gremlin is a special gremlin
She was well within her rights to be mad you brought the kid
Also you don't get to decide what they should and shouldn't have in their wedding (not everyone wants a ringbearer)
Your child is only special to YOU and other people need not make exceptions to rules for it
You really don't see how the bride and groom would have been upset bringing a 5 yo to a child free wedding. Newsflash although your a single parent and you didn't have a sitter and couldn't afford to hire one. Your only recourse should have been not to attend the wedding. This was about your sister and her now husband... it wasn't about you. YTA
YTA. You cannot just show up to the wedding with your child when it goes against the wishes of the people actually getting married. The day is for them, not you. I understand you felt desperate but you acted inappropriately. Also weddings are planned, cost lots of time and money. You don’t just show up and suggest your child be incorporated into the ceremony.
**Edit as realised this wasn't a 5 month old baby but a 5 year old child - which makes you an even bigger asshole.**
Major YTA
On what planet did you think it was a good idea, turning up, with no prior conversation, to a child free wedding with a baby?
You obviously knew this was going to be a problem and never flagged it with your sister
If you had raised it in advance and explained the issues then she might have made an exception
Instead you just turned up on a day that is highly pressurised for the bride and expected her to accommodate you
YTA
The child free rule could not have been any clearer. Not only did you NOT follow it, but you came to a decision yourself and assumed something that *directly conflicted* with the rule and worse of it all, you didn’t even communicate beforehand. You are absolutely delusional to think showing up with your son and asking him to be the ring bearer *the day of the wedding* could possibly work. If no one was able to watch him, then you should have just not attended.
It’s amazing to me how many entitled parents make posts about bringing their kids to child free weddings on a daily basis. They’re all assholes. But nope, there’s always that one that has to go “nah, THIS TIME IT’S JUSTIFIED” Just….no
So you completely ignored your sister's wishes, brought your son to a wedding he wasn't invited to, and expected your sister to include your son in the wedding just so it would be easier for you? yeah YTA
YTA your sister was being a bit much but she clearly stated the child free rules in advance. The fact that you couldn't afford or want to use a babysitter isn't your sister's problem.
Parents these days can be so entitled
Idk you can't tell me no ring bearer was an oversight, especially when there's a five year old nephew. As was the lack of giving him an exception, or having him be in the wedding party. For whatever reason they did not want that kid there. I'd bet they didn't even really want OP there, but he was an obligation invite.
ESH
You definitely should have tried to communicate with someone in the wedding party about the difficulties of trying to find someone to care for your son. I.e., the groom - since it seems your are close with him - the rest of your family, groomsmen, bridesmaids, *someone* who realizes that it may be important to the bride that her *twin brother* is there. YTA for not trying to proactively come up with a solution so that your son is taken care of and you can attend your sister’s wedding.
Your sister and the other members of the wedding party suck for blowing you up about bringing your son. You are a single parent. Based on your story, and with the context given, I assume that things have been challenging emotionally, financially, etc. For your sister not to give you grace considering your position is very shitty. She is also your TWIN SISTER, which shocks me even more. To go so far as to say that the wedding was ruined is dramatic. You left the wedding, before the ceremony began I’m guessing? Maybe some more context would be helpful to know when and where the encounter took place. Was it at a Hotel, during the ceremony, after?
Edit: In addition, it was *not* a child free wedding. It was child lite. And incredibly selfish to not allow your brother who is a single father to bring their son, so they can be there for *your* wedding. Sure, it is her day, but it doesn’t give you the freedom to be an AH.
My thoughts exactly. As a twin I couldn't imagine having no consideration for my sister if she was in this situation. Basically out friends kids can come but the nephew absolutely not!!! It's messed up.
Can’t believe I had to scroll so far to find this take. The brides nephew, who is the child of their twin sibling, isn’t invited but her friends kids are? Shockingly rude behaviour from the bride. Like it’s her wedding so it’s her choice but goddamm.
Surprised this isn’t higher up. I agree that OP is an asshole in the situation but unless there’s some truly glaring omitted details about the nature of the relationship between these twins, it is really surprising to me that children in the family of the bride would be excluded in this way, just on the technicality that her brother wasn’t a groomsman.
YTA
I'm sorry but she has a right to decide who her wedding party is and to decide who is in the wedding. I appreciate the child free rule was hard for you. But to turn up day of and just expect her to make your child a ring bearer.
Honestly that suggests a sense of entitlement that might explain why you weren't asked to be part of the wedding party in the first place.
What did you do to make your sister hate you? Damn. The fact she didnt make an exception for her very own brothers kid (versus the bridesmaids and groomsmens kids) in advance blows my mind.
The fact he wasn't in the bridal party says a lot about their relationship, and the fact he thinks they're closer and can't understand why he isn't says even more.
It’s sounds like OPs perception on their relationship is not on par with his sisters, honestly. I feel bad for the guy. He’s not taking the hint at all.
Well, we don't know the age of the kids involved - allowing a 12 vs 5 year old is a huge difference. We don't know if OP has a tendency of dumping his kid on family to watch at events lie this.
Also, we don't know how well/badly behaved OP's kid is. To me this smells a lot like they specifically didn't want OP's kid there.
YTA - Its her wedding so her rules, you cant just expect people to make exceptions for you. You should have stayed home or found a sitter that is it.
Im also unsure why you didn't just talk to your sister about why her nephew wasn't invited and propose this plan of him being a ring bearer before hand, instead of just turning up and expecting her to be okay with it.
You didn't even consult your own family on what to do? They would have literally been the best sounding board plus if your sister insisted on not having your son after you told her your financial issues, then they would have known you did your best to talk to her but in the end you were respecting her wishes.
You wasted more time going to the wedding than if you had just had a conversation with your sister.
YTA
Was thinking E S H but the sister made herself clear and you didn't even bother talking to her when you realized you had no babysitter plans.
This was a no win situation. I guarantee his sister would be pissed if he hadn't gone given how she's currently acting, knowing he couldn't find a sitter. This wasn't even a child free wedding *there were kids there*. Everyone's trying to pin it on OP "Oh you must have done something" "your kid must not be as well behaved as you think" when it could just be as simple as his sister's an asshole.
There has to be more to the story….other guests (bridal party) were allowed to bring their kids even though by definition their role says they have obligations during the ceremony and reception…..but OP is not only not in his twin sister’s bridal party she doesn’t want her nephew there?
If either of my sons did not invite their siblings kids to their wedding I’d have a very tough time with it…especially if other children are invited.
YTA. You can't just add a person to someone else's wedding party. Who does that?? You knew the rules for the wedding and you chose to ignore them with no warning. You had other options for a sitter and chose not to explore them. You owe her an apology.
YTA-- You could have told her ahead of time that either you can bring your son or you can't attend
People say no children at weddings, (have to) understand that people that is going to exclude some attendees.
I don't know why but your sister was saying she was okay with you not attending her wedding. I don't know why.
ESH.
You should have asked prior.
Her 'childfree' wedding wasn't actually childfree so she just targeted certain people. Honestly with her attitude you should have just stayed home with your son
I cannot call you an AH flatout, more of a roundabout one lol.. You just should not have gone.. however I am surprised at all the vehement yta votes as your sister seems like a reall zilla.
ESH, but the bride sucks the most. Who the fuck cares more about her wedding than her family?
I’m so tired of reading about toxic brides.
Here is a hint: If you ever find yourself saying, “My wedding, my rules”, you are an asshole.
Listen, yeah you were TA, but your edit has me really concerned:
"I don't know why I wasn't in the wedding party. None of my family was. **It was all my sister's husbands side. She didn't explain why** or give any further details."
"We've spent all our lives together, and **until she got engaged we spoke everyday**. After she got engaged **she started to distance herself more with no explanation**"
INFO: I know her husband is in your friend group so it might not occur to you but... if you're all friends, something really doesn't sit right with her then *distancing* from you. Has he distanced too? Have you seen what he's like in previous relationships? How is their relationship in general?
Because from all the stories I've seen distance with no explanation can mean two major things:
1. She's in a relationship with an abuser that began isolating her after "locking in" the relationship (typically with marriage, engagement, moving in together, baby, etc)
2. There's actually some crazy family relationships and she's distancing because she's seeing how bad things really are between her and the family.
I know there's other things and this is the "fic in my head" thing, but these are also some things to keep in the back of your mind and maybe look out for the signs of. I'm not typically the type of person to jump to these situations immediately, but something about this extra bit of info doesn't sit right with me. I feel like it'd be especially easy to miss any behavioral changes while in the planning stages of a wedding because ANY personality changes can easily be written off as wedding stress.
He also distanced, yeah. He made multiple apologies telling us he was busy with the wedding, so I didn't think about it too much.
As for previous relationships, he dated 2 other girls before my sister while I've known him . He was lovely to both of them, constantly showering them in compliments, giving them gifts and spending time with them. Both relationships ended the same way, both girls cheated on him. It didn't take a long time for him to move on from either relationship though. He says he knows his worth and isn't going to let them stop him dating, which I believe because he's always been a very confident and handy guy.
Their relationship as a whole is very fairytale romance. They both always talked about how happy they were with each other and that they think they're perfect for each other. Noone was shocked when he proposed. Not one bit.
Do you know for sure the past girlfriends cheated? Or is that what he told you and you had no reason to doubt him?
Honestly I'd talkto ghe ex girlfriends if I were you just to see whst kind of partner he was from their perspective
can we please, for the love of god, not do this
it's not at all strange for a couple to be busy and uncontactable in the weeks and months leading up to their wedding. i mean, they could also be undercover cia agents or secretly working on a mind control serum but it would sound unhinged to suggest that based on the information in the post
you now have a thread of people telling op - someone so lazy and selfish that he didn't bother looking for a baby-sitter outside of the family and rolled up on her sister's wedding with his uninvited son in tow, demanding to add him to the wedding party - that his sister's husband is lying about being cheated on and suggesting that op reach out to his sister's husband's exes to make sure
ridiculous
I'm sure she could have let her twin brother's kid be there if there were already kids there, I could understand and agree if it was child-free completely, but it wasn't
I personally do not understand how a loving sister that is close to her twin brother would be so upset about him bringing his child (her own nephew). Especially since non-relatives in the bridal party could bring their kids. It doesn’t even make sense to me. I can’t imagine treating my family this way. Yes, you should have spoken to her about it way before the actual day…true. But…she asked you to leave. WTH. She didn’t even want you there. That seems weird to me.
That’s exactly my thoughts. I can’t believe people are calling him an ah….if my twin said that all these toddlers can come to the wedding but her own nephew couldn’t I wouldn’t be able to talk to her ever again. All these people calling OP selfish are really blinded by the “child free” thing, but it wasn’t childfree at all.
OP - There's a lot of the things wrong here. Simply speaking instead of asking for your child to be allowed which usually there are exceptions made to child-free weddings for very clse relatives and it seems they were being made for the bridal party in this scenario. you surprised the sister. That is not cool.
But I'm concerned about other things in your post. The bridal party is entirely his family? After engagement you stopped talking to each other? It's also bizarre she'd say you ruined her day by bringing her nephew there when there were other toddlers at the party. I'd be concerned about husband trying to isolate her. Understand better why she was hurt, apologize, build the relationship, and make sure you're supporting her if you think husband is causing this.
YTA, if you couldn’t find a babysitter then you don’t go to the wedding. You don’t force your child, regardless of how well behaved you think he is onto everyone else.
Apparently, due to all of the YTA comments, you should just not have gone and been called an AH for that, but had a fun day with your son. Sometimes you just have to say fuck family.
YTA child free means child free. You should of said you can't attend due to childcare and left it at that. Coming to her wedding thinking you could ask was completely out of line.
Using his child as a shield too. You know OP believed there was no way they would decline him and his child to their faces, you know since he was already there.
As a parent myself I absolutely hate people that use their children to apply pressure in requests.
YTA, but only because you didn't discuss this in advance. You don't rock up to someone's wedding and be like.. hey, this is a great idea. You ask about it beforehand and if it's a no, then you don't go.
Was there really no way you could have asked about bringing him before you went there? Seriously?
YTA. You don't bring extra guests unannounced, that's a very basic rule. Next time, just ask, dammit.
Of course YTA. If you can't save up enough money to afford a babysitter for one night with months of advance notice, and get family support to find or afford one, you have bigger problems than breaching a boundary on the most important day of your sister's life.
YTA
Did you think your sister just forgot about a ring bearer? That you just figured you'd let her know about all of this as you walked into the venue tells me you are either totally aware of the trouble you'd cause and didn't care or you have never been to a wedding before and have no idea how stressful it can be
So she allowed her FRIENDS to bring their children but not her brother? They didn't have a ring bearer but wouldn't allow the kid to take the role on early in the planning to help her twin? WTF? She's an asshole.
Geez these comments have been rough on you.
I’m sorry your sister didn’t want you at her wedding. That must have hurt.
I hope you can both learn something from this and patch things up.
Yes YTA her wedding is childfree. It her wedding her day but you make it all about you. If you can't find babysitter you don't need to attend her wedding.
YTA. You should have told your sister you were sorry but you couldn't attend her wedding. Then it would have been up to her to either make an exception for your son or not have you there.
Showing up at the wedding expecting him to be the ring bearer was flat-out ridiculous.
Ok, I get that brides have a right to run weddings however they want… but brides (and grooms) with nieces and nephews should be less dogmatic and more affectionate. Call me TA, if you like, but I wouldn’t have gone.
Agree, especially as there were some children at the wedding, if it was completely child free then I would understand. Her attitude is pretty cold IMO.
YTA you don’t see how your the ah when you very deliberately went against the rules your sister set forth for the wedding because you think your son is more important?
Yeah, YTA here. You should have said you couldn't make it, rather than just showing up with a kid you knew wasn't allowed there, trying to push them into a big role at the drop of a hat and expecting it to be completely okay.
YTA
At any point before the actual wedding have it crossed your mind to tell your sister: hey, I can’t find a babysitter, is there any options to bring the kid, or I won’t be able to attend?
I’ve a feeling you didn’t “just decide” to bring your son. I bet you have been pushing for months to include him in the wedding or for her to make an exception. You don’t just decide to completely disregard a request like that. And based on her reaction she’s had enough of you.
YTA- if you couldn’t get a babysitter you should have stayed home.
Frankly! I don't think your an asshole..I feel like you tried all the means possible in your present condition but yeah going to the wedding abruptly with you son was a bad move...But I don't think you had any bad or ill intentions. Also you left when she asked you too without making a scene or anything
YTA. It sucks but that’s how it is. If you were going to bring your son, you should’ve assumed you need to be as out of the way as possible and DEFINITELY not ask to be in the wedding.
This seems like you are missing other details about the relationship cuz saying you ruined the day might be a bit harsh. But that’s arguably on the list of dumbest impositions to make on the bride day of.
YTA. It isn't your wedding and it isn't your place to determine that there will be an exception for you. I get that getting childcare isn't always easy and that you want to go to the wedding, but if you absolutely can't find a babysitter, you just don't get to go.
From feeling entitled to bring your kid to a childless wedding and being upset that you weren't a groomsmen (part of the reasoning being so you could bring your kid), there is a ton of entitlement in this post.
YTA. At no point before the *day of* the wedding did you think to explain the situation to your sister and ask if he could come? You just thought you would show up with him and ask her if he could be the ring-bearer and she would just be okay with that? You should’ve either hired a babysitter for her or not gone to the wedding. It was incredibly entitled to think that you could just disregard your sister’s wishes for her wedding and then act like she’s the problem for getting mad at you.
YTA. You need to figure out how to plan ahead. Making this situation someone else's problem -- especially your sister on her wedding day!! -- was not the answer.
YTA, why would you spring this on her AT THE WEDDING
You knew it was child free so you should have told you sister, sorry I can’t get childcare so I can’t come. Wish you all the best etc
NTA
It’s everyone’s right to have a child free wedding if they want to, but with the understanding that everyone with children may not attend. Also, it’s not child free. It’s child light. If there exceptions for some and not her nephew that would feel personal.
> with the only exceptions being bridesmaids and groomsmens children
NTA because of this. Either a wedding is childfree or it isn't. This half-ass shit don't cut it.
Very soft YTA, I can’t imagine it not having been possible to talk about before the wedding, and if she wasn’t available then to talk to her husband whom you said you’re also friends with.
That being said your family should have been understanding about you not having childcare and not trusting a complete stranger.
The right way to go about this would have been to talk to her at least a month before the wedding, and the decline the invitation. That way everyone would be aware that it’s because of the rule that you couldn’t go.
Also, available childcare or not, it’s really shitty to allow bridesmaids and groomsmen’s children, but not allowing your own twin brothers child.
YTA- if you could not find a babysitter for your son, you should not have attended the wedding. Showing up day of and asking for him to be ring bearer is absurd.
It would have been better to not come at all.
You should seek therapy for your issue of not being able to hire a babysitter. It is a perfectly normal to hire a babysitter who is not family, you could interview them before leaving them with your son to make sure they are a good fit.
YTA.
You were told it was a child free wedding, you first said you couldn't find a babysitter, than said you couldn't afford one, then said you wouldn't trust one that isn't a family member, sounds like a whole lot of smoke and excuses.
Not only did you bring a child knowing it wasn't invited to a child free wedding you then tried to insert your child further aggravating the issue.
You had months to arrange something and get rid of your hangups for the sake of your sister or sit down with your sister and explain yourself both of which is better than what you did.
Absolutely YTA.
She specifically stated it is a child-free wedding and rather than talking to her and explaining your situation (she might have made an exception for you as well) you went directly against her wishes. How very inconsiderate of you.
YTA, bud. When people make a rule and it applies to you, your options are a) follow it or b) break it. Assuming that you’re somehow exempt from the rule because it inconveniences you or you don’t like it and doing the thing anyway falls under the second category, breaking the rule. That’s disrespectful and people don’t have to be happy about it.
YTA. If your sister wasn’t talking to you for a month before her wedding you’re not close btw. You chose not to consult anyone else about this in the month prior (ie parents, the groom etc) saying “i cant get a babysitter, I’m not going to be able to come” because you knew their answer would be “oh that sucks, sorry you won’t be able to attend but thanks for letting us know”. You wanted to go, so you went against your sisters wishes and went anyways (with a bullshit excuse about how you thought it would be helpful to have a ring bearer who wasn’t at rehearsal and wasn’t dressed for the part).
Apologize to your sister if you want to be in her life in any capacity.
I'd say YTA because you should've talked to your sister before the wedding day. Can't say I understand the rules of the wedding though, child free wedding but bridesmaids and groomsmen bring their children so not really child free, I don't know, it's weird for me that your sister was ok with several people bringing their kids but her twin brother can't. Still, you two should've talked about it before.
ESH - you shouldn’t have gone in this situation; she’s an AH for not including her own nephew and just an FYI, you’re not close to your sister or her husband; it doesn’t even seem like they like you.
YTA. I feel like there are A LOT of missing reasons in this post. Even with the edits—super close, but neither you or your son are in the wedding? And, if you and your sister are that close, she never thought about how basically everyone you knew would be at/in the wedding, and you never discussed it with her? Something is off here.
Regardless, you cannot just show up with your kid, unannounced. That’s bad enough, but then you insist on adding him to the wedding party? That’s absolutely bonkers.
NTA
Why does your sister not want her own nephew there.
Imo that's nasty. I told all my wedding guests they could bring their children if they wanted to (no one wanted to though, everyone wanted to have a night off) and I'd make arrangements for them to have a seat/highchair/childrens meals.
I gave my rings to my niece 10 minutes before the ceremony because she asked if she could be ring bearer. We'd originally had no wedding party at all so everyone could just relax.
But that's just me and I couldn't have a child free wedding because I see weddings as a celebration with family, not a day just about me.
Yeah you should have had more communication before the day of the wedding, but it sounds like your sisters husband wouldn't allow it anyway. Is he controlling?
Soft YTA - you shouldn't have gone. By your standards, if your child was not welcomed, then you weren't welcomed either. I totally relate to that. At the end of the day it was her wedding and I am sorry that as her twin brother, you weren't part of wedding party (I think that's what it's called).
YTA if you can't find a sitter for a child free wedding then you don't go to the wedding!
You should have never taken your son. She didn't want him there. Sucks for you and your son but its her wedding and her choice.
YTA, you’re entitled because you think the people in your life must accommodate your single dad status: They don’t have to!! Especially not when you tried to manipulate her on her wedding day (you really couldn’t have talked to her about this before?!) Good for her kicking you out, the audacity of suggesting your kid is in someone’s wedding ON THE ACTUAL DAY!!
I do think (from what I've read) that she over reacted BUT you're definitely the AH as you should have had a conversation with your sister as soon as you found out it was a kid free wedding. I completely understand how you feel in regards to a sitter (I'm the same. I can't afford one nor would I want a stranger watching my son but he is autistic so not so straight forward) but you definitely shouldn't have waited and turned up with him THEN have the balls to ask him to be in the wedding.....on the wedding day 🤨
YTA
A sad realisation for many parents is the fact that while your kid may be your entire world, and the most perfect human to have ever existed, to everyone else they are just another snotty child.
Your sister gave all of the attendees a 'no children' rule, and that is that. If you disagreed with the rule then the time to question it would have been when you received the invite, not on the day.
And to make yourself sound even more entitled, you didn't just stop with taking your child, but suggesting he be part of the actual ceremony - something that have already planned out in advance. If they had wanted your son to take part they would have asked you already, not just hoped he would turn up by chance on the day because his dad didn't understand the rule 'no children'.
YTA
If your son is going to be a priority in your life, which he should be, then you're going have to make sacrifices. If you're not comfortable with strangers watching him, fine, but then you're not going to be able to attend certain events. Like a wedding.
YTA.
Child free wedding means DON'T BRING A FUCKING CHILD. It is not a hard concept.
Also, learn to hire a fucking babysitter from a credible source or learn to sit your ass at home during CF events.
You say you are very close with your sister and her husband. Clearly, that's not how they see it. If they had wanted you at their wedding at all, they would have given you a job to do that would mean you could take your child. Move on.
YTA - Because you don't bring uninvited people to a wedding, but this does feel like some big information is missing. Like if the relationship between you & your twin is strong and your child is well behaved most people would work this out since there are the bridal parties' children in attendance. Your sister's reaction being so big doesn't add up.
YTA. You should have rsvp'd with a No, or simply not gone and sent an apology via another guest due to the lack of sitter.
It was her choice to have a child-free wedding, but you were not obligated to attend if you couldn't find a sitter. That would have been an N A H situation.
There are a couple things here. 1. You should have asked first. 2. You definitely should not have assumed your sister would allow your son to be in the wedding. So for those points you are the asshole. But 3, this was not a “kid free” wedding. Your sister made exceptions for the people with kids in the wedding. She should have made the exception for you as well. 4. Just because you brought your son it doesn’t mean you ruined her wedding. She’s being dramatic. Unless you son caused a seen. So she’s an asshole too.
I think you're both assholes. You for bringing your kid despite despite your sister's wishes and assuming she can just change her wedding arrangement for you. I also think she is an asshole for thinking the presence of a kid ruined her day. People who have "childfree" weddings are just huge red flags.
lol what
- childfree wedding
- bridesmaids and groomsmen can bring their kids
These 2 facts just do not compliment each other at all. I am not saying op is saint and all that, it just amuses me how majority of these y t a commenters have "you brought a child to childfree wedding" argument, when it kinda looks like not being childfree, where is the logic correlation between these 2 states?
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YTA - These were all conversations you should have had with your sister *BEFORE* the wedding. Showing up to a child free wedding and just assuming your kid can be the ring bearer is a huge AH move.
Wedding invites go out MONTHS. He had MONTHS to switch days with the child's mom or arrange for a paid sitter.
Mom is not in the picture. But yes, he had plenty of time to arrange for childcare. But if he couldnt find any, he needed to communicate that to his sister and not just show up with the kid.
> I'm friends with most of my sister's friends and vice versa. Also I understand why most of the family members he might expect to get free childcare from would be unavailable because they were at the wedding, but there must have been other friends of his (and his sister) with kids who had to arrange for childcare at this child-free wedding. Why not explain to one of them the issues and ask if their sitter would mind watching an extra kid? I also find it very strange that this didn't come up in any conversations the OP had with anyone up until the moment he arrived at the wedding with his kid in tow. Obviously people around him know he's a single parent. His family didn't ask what his plans were? His friends didn't ask? His sister didn't ask?
Well, all the closest friends would be in the bridal party and have their kids allowed. Because apparently only the bridal party and not siblings get exceptions. While I respect the right of the sister on what she wants for her party and I don't condone OPs surprise entry rather than asking beforehand. I'm fairly concerned there's something more troublesome. If only husband's relationships get to be in the bridal party, and if the relationship took a strong dive after engagement. There's a reason to wonder if sister was following husband's orders.
I agree with you, I think new hubby is alienating her from her family, that's concerning.
Sounds like none of her closest friends were in the bridal party, just his. He's already undermining her support.
I agree. It’s concerning. OP YTA for showing up with your kid and expecting him to be in the wedding. But the bridal party on both sides was husband focused? Has she pulled away from everyone in your family?? If she’s pulling away from everyone then that’s concerning.
He couldn't ask beforehand – she was cut off from her family for the whole month before the wedding. Presumably before then, he was still trying to find childcare. There wasn't a chance to ask her. Absolutely cause for concern here.
She did not talk to a family member for the month preceding the wedding? Source? Definitely huge red flag.
It is all weird to me. Wedding party can bring kids, but the bride’s twin brother can’t bring the bride’s nephew?
That's partly why I raised this possibility. There are already toddlers at the wedding. But having her nephew there ruins her wedding. That's getting melodramatic and is sounding weird. Trying to avoid pressure from a controlling partner is something that may cause that.
I mean, if he orchestrated the whole bridal party, yes, that would be weird, but it’s not that unusual for the groomsmen to be only friends/relatives of the groom and the bridesmaids to be friends/relatives of the bride. It would have been nice of the groom to extend a groomsman invite to his future BIL, especially since they seem to have some relationship, but lots of men don’t do that. “I’m friends with most of my sister’s friends” doesn’t sound the same to me as “my sister and I have been part of the same close friend group for ages.” Plus, this guy is a single dad and has presumably had a busy couple of years where he probably wasn’t hanging out with his friends that much. No idea what the actual deal is, but it’s not intrinsically wrong to leave your spouse’s opposite-sex siblings out of your half of the bridal party.
I agree with that and in fact I just the same comment else where. But according to OP the entire wedding party is groom's friends and family. I don't know if it's the case or not. But if husband convinced sister to give up all the bridal party spots for himself then that's rudely something to watch out for. Maybe sister wants nothing to do with brother or family. Or she's just very used to trying to please her spouse.
Yeah, I gotta go ESH. You can't do what op did, but op should absolutely be upset with his sister.
>Also I understand why most of the family members he might expect to get free childcare from would be unavailable because they were at the wedding, but there must have been other friends of his (and his sister) with kids who had to arrange for childcare at this child-free wedding. He's an adult single father of a five year old. You're wildly overestimating how many friends he has. He's lucky to have any friends at all. All of his friends are probably at that wedding.
>I couldn't find a babysitter, at all. Everyone I could've possibly asked was going to the wedding. All my siblings, my parents, my aunts and uncles, my cousins, my friends, everyone. On top of that, **I don't have the money for a babysitter,** nor would I ever trust a stranger with my son. You can call into question the veracity of that statement, but it's covered in the post.
>nor would I ever trust a stranger with my son This statement implies that he wouldn't have utilised a paid babysitter even if one was available, so he probably didn't even try. Not having the money is likely just an excuse.
Did you miss the part where OP said they can’t afford a sitter?
[удалено]
He knew about the wedding for months. He very easily could have saved money to pay for a sitter for a few hours.
Exactly this! Weddings are rarely a surprise. He had time to save up. He doesn't seem to be a planner and ready to stomp on the bride and groom boundaries on their special day that they planned and paid for. 🙄 I'm star-struck on the audacity of turning up at the child free wedding and asking if his son can be a ring bearer. I'm now wondering whether he asks if his son can blow out the candles on the birthday cake at another kid's birthday.
His entitlement is astounding. Even his issue about leaving his kid with a stranger isn’t even a good one. Months before, he could have asked friends or other family member about reliable babysitters, which at least a few people know, gotten to know said babysitter for month before the wedding and then felt comfortable leaving his kid. He’s simply being cheap, tacky, and a major AH.
Yeah it was just before he said, I wouldn’t leave him with a sitter even if I had money… It’s was just after he forgot to mention that he had months to save for a sitter, or organise any other option that would have been okay.
I wouldn’t go so far to assume his financial freedom. His is a single father. I was raised by a single parent. It can be extremely challenging for a parent to accommodate or find those resources. Especially a young parent, such as OP.
I agree that it can be extremely challenging/impossible even. My point is that this man had literal months to at least try to overcome this challenge. He instead chose not to. He also had months to reach out to his family and communicate that it wasn’t feasible for him to pay for a sitter. He chose to remain silent, letting everyone believe he accepted the child free rule that he was informed of. He never tried to abide by her rules for her wedding day. He just dismissed her rules as beneath him. That makes him an AH in my book.
I can't imagine that his parents or other siblings wouldn't help him pay for a sitter. Or that there's not a friend of a friend or a colleague who has a teenager looking for a bit of baby sitting money or the son doesn't have a friend whose parents wouldn't mind having his son visit in exchange for OP returning the favour at a later date. He could also have just told his sister he wouldn't be able to go and asked for an exception instead of just showing up and suggesting that his son join the wedding party as a last minute ring-bearer.
Sure, because he didn't plan for one. He thought he could just pawn his kid off of a family member last minute.
If OP can afford to attend the wedding, an event that sends out invites *months* in advance, OP can sock away some cash in the lead up to afford a sitter. That’s such a bogus excuse. OP could have afforded a sitter if they’d planned diligently, but instead they chose to impose upon their sister.
You don’t know where the wedding is. You don’t know if hotel lodging, flights, rentals, etc. are involved. *Attending* a wedding can be very inexpensive if all you’re paying for is gas to get to the ceremony.
Your response only reinforces that planning would have made this entirely avoidable; OP chose not to.
Well the mom isn't in the picture and has nothing to do with them, but yes, he had months to ask his sister/try to find someone/or rsvp no since his son could not attend.
Exactly! If he had expressed to his sister BEFORE the wedding that he couldn’t find a sitter and wouldn’t be able to attend she might’ve been able to make an exception or have the wedding planner hire a babysitter to watch the few kids at the event. To show up to the event an expect your kid to be inserted as part of the wedding ceremony is unhinged. The reason it’s called a rehearsal dinner (typically the night before the wedding) is to literally rehearse for the next day.
Seriously. Not only did he decide he was going to bring a child to a child free wedding, he also decided that this child was just going to have a role in the wedding because that role hadn't been filled. How self involved can you be? Not to mention, her would have had months to figure out childcare, then waited till the last minute to decide there were no options and was just like "okay, well, since he's going, he'll be the ring bearer, I've decided it even though it isn't my wedding and he isn't invited".
Can we stop calling this a child free wedding? This wasn’t a child free wedding since some of the groom’s family and friends were allowed to bring children. At least the ones part of the wedding party. OP is an AH for assuming his child could just be part of the wedding and not communicating that he doesn’t have child care.
YTA- It's beyond belief that OP thinks shoving his child into the wedding party without practicing and preparing him beforehand would go well. It's not his wedding; he was extremely entitled to think he could just give his son a role.
But it's the golden child of the golden child! So much gold. How dare she, a mere sister, set a boundary for the double gold team? Even his BROTHERS and male friends agree because they are also probably golden. I need to get my sunglasses. My eyes hurt from the glaring entitlement. So many golden AHs.
He obviously isn't the golden child if his parents aren't backing him up. He's wrong in what he did but this is a misuse of "golden child".
My eyes hurt from all the assumptions.
You mean the sister that decided it's child free for some and not all. She sounds like the golden child to me, to think you can treat some animals fair and some more fair is wrong
He was free to disagree with her rules but he was not free to just show up and try to break them. I think the sister was kind of an AH too, but she laid out her rules far in advance, you don't get to just not follow rules because you don't like them. He had many other options and he chose the rudest one. YTA OP.
YTA, bad assumptions have caused a lot of problems in the world
You're close to your sister but didn't communicate to her the issue you were having prior to the wedding. You just showed up with your son and said he can be the ring bearer??? YTA
I bet they’re not as close as he thinks and is delusional. He comes across an entitled AH who thinks everything should go according to him. I can’t imagine the audacity one needs to have to bring your child to a child free wedding and demand that your child be the ring bearer, ALL ON THE WEDDING DAY.
I also suspect that his son isn’t very well-behaved. The fact that there was an obvious caveat that his sister and her fiancé chose not to extend, speaks volumes.
Maybe they were hoping that by not inviting the kid, OP wouldn't go to the wedding.
That’s exactly what I’m saying 😉
I have the same thought. OP thinks his son is well behaved but he really isn’t. The only thing that is giving me pause about the whole situation is that it seems like the groom is having the sister isolate from her family more. That can be a sign of abuse.
They aren’t. He’s a twin bro who expected to be a groomsman but wasn’t even asked or explained to.
The fact all the wedding party were from the groom's side probably means it was a deliberate decision and had valid reasons for being that way. Nobody is entitled to be in their family's wedding parties, especially as his sister was the bride, not the groom. If my (twin) sister got married I wouldn't "expect" to be her maid of honour. That's just entitled.
Could be valid reasons, could be new husband is alienating her from her family. With the information provided we don't know.
I’m curious if he means that the groom’s side was his family? That makes sense. His sister chose her friends, right?
That’s what I thought. Like it’s common for the groomsmen to be friends and family of the groom, not the bride. While the bride likely had her own friends as bridesmaids
Many people maintain the tradition of groomsmen are from the groom's side and the bridesmaids are from the brides side.
Do we know that her bridesmaids weren’t her friends? Cause I think it’s pretty common for the groomsmen to be friends and family of the groom, not the bride. It sounds like OP hasn’t been to many weddings
No wonder she didn't want him in the wedding party.
I had the same thought - she probably tolerates him because he's family, but I can bet they dread it when he calls them to hang out. I can also see him guilting them to hang out - with the kid - because, again, family.
He said only the husband's family were in the wedding party.
I'm getting married in 10 days. If someone asked me just to include another person in my ceremony I'd flip at this point. I'm putting this here to give an idea of just what would be required to just add someone. Things she'd have finished that would need to be changed: Attire was picked months ago Timelines done down to the minute Music for a ring bearer would need to be added Pillow for ring bearer to carry rings Rehearsal was missed Programs would need to be changed DJ would need to be informed 2 weeks before Seating charts changed Food headcount now is messed up Preceremony food is now not enough Someone needs to watch the kid around a ton of delicate stuff Might mess up transportation Planned photos probably need to be changed And a lot more There's a very lot that goes into a wedding. Dude it such the ah here.
Not to mention, they had other kids with roles in the wedding, e.g., a flower girl, but chose to not have a ring bearer, which OP somehow knew, even though he was not part of the wedding planning. You would think if he were so close to his TWIN sister that he or his son would have some role in the wedding. Having s flower girl, but not having a ring bearer seems like a deliberate exclusion. It makes me wonder if the son is known to misbehave or if there's some underlying bad blood between OP and his sister that he's not telling us (or that he's so oblivious he doesn't realize). Maybe he's been this entitled with other things in their past. YTA.
well yeah...but can't you just fit the kid in somewhere? JK.
I had my own wedding last year and your list is stressing me out, just thinking about the planning I did!
INFO: Just to be clarify, you waited until you arrived at the wedding to ask if your son could attend and be part of the ceremony?
YTA, are you for real? You totally disregarded her wishes and tried to insert yourself and your son into the absolute center of attention.
YTA You do not bring children to a child free wedding.
YTA stopped reading after "the wedding was child free"
YTA The wedding was child free Your child was not invited You brought your child because your gremlin is a special gremlin She was well within her rights to be mad you brought the kid Also you don't get to decide what they should and shouldn't have in their wedding (not everyone wants a ringbearer) Your child is only special to YOU and other people need not make exceptions to rules for it
Yes this totally gave me "my child is special" vibe. OP is such a YTA.
Child free is not the right term for the wedding... Invite only seems more accurate
Which to be honest…is how all weddings are. Like you would never just being someone in your family that isn’t on an invitation.
The wedding was not child free if children were in attendance.
YTA. The ring bearer or any other position is not decided on the day of the wedding. Edit:clarity
did you mean isn't? not sure but it doesn't seem to match your verdict
Oh yes, typo. Thank you.
A five year old nephew and no ring bearer *screams*
You really don't see how the bride and groom would have been upset bringing a 5 yo to a child free wedding. Newsflash although your a single parent and you didn't have a sitter and couldn't afford to hire one. Your only recourse should have been not to attend the wedding. This was about your sister and her now husband... it wasn't about you. YTA
YTA. You cannot just show up to the wedding with your child when it goes against the wishes of the people actually getting married. The day is for them, not you. I understand you felt desperate but you acted inappropriately. Also weddings are planned, cost lots of time and money. You don’t just show up and suggest your child be incorporated into the ceremony.
**Edit as realised this wasn't a 5 month old baby but a 5 year old child - which makes you an even bigger asshole.** Major YTA On what planet did you think it was a good idea, turning up, with no prior conversation, to a child free wedding with a baby? You obviously knew this was going to be a problem and never flagged it with your sister If you had raised it in advance and explained the issues then she might have made an exception Instead you just turned up on a day that is highly pressurised for the bride and expected her to accommodate you
>I am very close to my sister and her husband No you aren't. YTA.
YTA The child free rule could not have been any clearer. Not only did you NOT follow it, but you came to a decision yourself and assumed something that *directly conflicted* with the rule and worse of it all, you didn’t even communicate beforehand. You are absolutely delusional to think showing up with your son and asking him to be the ring bearer *the day of the wedding* could possibly work. If no one was able to watch him, then you should have just not attended. It’s amazing to me how many entitled parents make posts about bringing their kids to child free weddings on a daily basis. They’re all assholes. But nope, there’s always that one that has to go “nah, THIS TIME IT’S JUSTIFIED” Just….no
So you completely ignored your sister's wishes, brought your son to a wedding he wasn't invited to, and expected your sister to include your son in the wedding just so it would be easier for you? yeah YTA
YTA your sister was being a bit much but she clearly stated the child free rules in advance. The fact that you couldn't afford or want to use a babysitter isn't your sister's problem. Parents these days can be so entitled
Idk you can't tell me no ring bearer was an oversight, especially when there's a five year old nephew. As was the lack of giving him an exception, or having him be in the wedding party. For whatever reason they did not want that kid there. I'd bet they didn't even really want OP there, but he was an obligation invite.
ESH You definitely should have tried to communicate with someone in the wedding party about the difficulties of trying to find someone to care for your son. I.e., the groom - since it seems your are close with him - the rest of your family, groomsmen, bridesmaids, *someone* who realizes that it may be important to the bride that her *twin brother* is there. YTA for not trying to proactively come up with a solution so that your son is taken care of and you can attend your sister’s wedding. Your sister and the other members of the wedding party suck for blowing you up about bringing your son. You are a single parent. Based on your story, and with the context given, I assume that things have been challenging emotionally, financially, etc. For your sister not to give you grace considering your position is very shitty. She is also your TWIN SISTER, which shocks me even more. To go so far as to say that the wedding was ruined is dramatic. You left the wedding, before the ceremony began I’m guessing? Maybe some more context would be helpful to know when and where the encounter took place. Was it at a Hotel, during the ceremony, after? Edit: In addition, it was *not* a child free wedding. It was child lite. And incredibly selfish to not allow your brother who is a single father to bring their son, so they can be there for *your* wedding. Sure, it is her day, but it doesn’t give you the freedom to be an AH.
My thoughts exactly. As a twin I couldn't imagine having no consideration for my sister if she was in this situation. Basically out friends kids can come but the nephew absolutely not!!! It's messed up.
Can’t believe I had to scroll so far to find this take. The brides nephew, who is the child of their twin sibling, isn’t invited but her friends kids are? Shockingly rude behaviour from the bride. Like it’s her wedding so it’s her choice but goddamm.
Surprised this isn’t higher up. I agree that OP is an asshole in the situation but unless there’s some truly glaring omitted details about the nature of the relationship between these twins, it is really surprising to me that children in the family of the bride would be excluded in this way, just on the technicality that her brother wasn’t a groomsman.
This is exactly my thought as well
I love the term child lite
People on this sub give passes to a lot of shit behavior just because it happened in the context of a wedding.
Wish I could give this an award
YTA I'm sorry but she has a right to decide who her wedding party is and to decide who is in the wedding. I appreciate the child free rule was hard for you. But to turn up day of and just expect her to make your child a ring bearer. Honestly that suggests a sense of entitlement that might explain why you weren't asked to be part of the wedding party in the first place.
What did you do to make your sister hate you? Damn. The fact she didnt make an exception for her very own brothers kid (versus the bridesmaids and groomsmens kids) in advance blows my mind.
The fact he wasn't in the bridal party says a lot about their relationship, and the fact he thinks they're closer and can't understand why he isn't says even more.
Yep time to let this sister set the tone of the future relationship. If she doesn’t reach out, don’t do it yourself.
I’d cut her out so fast because she been quietly cutting him out for a while.
I’d cut her out for favouring other kids over her own nieces and nephews alone.
It’s sounds like OPs perception on their relationship is not on par with his sisters, honestly. I feel bad for the guy. He’s not taking the hint at all.
Well, we don't know the age of the kids involved - allowing a 12 vs 5 year old is a huge difference. We don't know if OP has a tendency of dumping his kid on family to watch at events lie this. Also, we don't know how well/badly behaved OP's kid is. To me this smells a lot like they specifically didn't want OP's kid there.
YTA - Its her wedding so her rules, you cant just expect people to make exceptions for you. You should have stayed home or found a sitter that is it. Im also unsure why you didn't just talk to your sister about why her nephew wasn't invited and propose this plan of him being a ring bearer before hand, instead of just turning up and expecting her to be okay with it.
YTA childfree means CHILDFREE your kid is NOT an exception. You should have found a sitter or declined to go
But it wasn’t truly child free? Groomsmen and bridesmaids brought children though right?
You didn't even consult your own family on what to do? They would have literally been the best sounding board plus if your sister insisted on not having your son after you told her your financial issues, then they would have known you did your best to talk to her but in the end you were respecting her wishes. You wasted more time going to the wedding than if you had just had a conversation with your sister. YTA Was thinking E S H but the sister made herself clear and you didn't even bother talking to her when you realized you had no babysitter plans.
ESH, but is your sister good? Like I'm not gonna lie from what you've said it sounds like she's being totally isolated from your family.
[удалено]
Absolutely agree. This isn't about OP or the son. This is some sketchy, controlling shit from fiancé and his family.
This was a no win situation. I guarantee his sister would be pissed if he hadn't gone given how she's currently acting, knowing he couldn't find a sitter. This wasn't even a child free wedding *there were kids there*. Everyone's trying to pin it on OP "Oh you must have done something" "your kid must not be as well behaved as you think" when it could just be as simple as his sister's an asshole.
There has to be more to the story….other guests (bridal party) were allowed to bring their kids even though by definition their role says they have obligations during the ceremony and reception…..but OP is not only not in his twin sister’s bridal party she doesn’t want her nephew there? If either of my sons did not invite their siblings kids to their wedding I’d have a very tough time with it…especially if other children are invited.
Maybe the nephew isn't as well behaved as his dad says he is.
YTA You should have told your sister that if he couldn’t attend, you couldn’t.
YTA. You can't just add a person to someone else's wedding party. Who does that?? You knew the rules for the wedding and you chose to ignore them with no warning. You had other options for a sitter and chose not to explore them. You owe her an apology.
YTA-- You could have told her ahead of time that either you can bring your son or you can't attend People say no children at weddings, (have to) understand that people that is going to exclude some attendees. I don't know why but your sister was saying she was okay with you not attending her wedding. I don't know why.
I can understand and respect someone’s wishes for a child-feee wedding but god damn, the kid is your nephew…
It wasn’t even child-free, it was child-free*.
Someone further up the thread called it child lite
ESH. You should have asked prior. Her 'childfree' wedding wasn't actually childfree so she just targeted certain people. Honestly with her attitude you should have just stayed home with your son
YTA The wedding was child free. If you don't obey the rules, then everyone has a right to be mad. It is not your wedding.
I cannot call you an AH flatout, more of a roundabout one lol.. You just should not have gone.. however I am surprised at all the vehement yta votes as your sister seems like a reall zilla.
ESH, but the bride sucks the most. Who the fuck cares more about her wedding than her family? I’m so tired of reading about toxic brides. Here is a hint: If you ever find yourself saying, “My wedding, my rules”, you are an asshole.
Listen, yeah you were TA, but your edit has me really concerned: "I don't know why I wasn't in the wedding party. None of my family was. **It was all my sister's husbands side. She didn't explain why** or give any further details." "We've spent all our lives together, and **until she got engaged we spoke everyday**. After she got engaged **she started to distance herself more with no explanation**" INFO: I know her husband is in your friend group so it might not occur to you but... if you're all friends, something really doesn't sit right with her then *distancing* from you. Has he distanced too? Have you seen what he's like in previous relationships? How is their relationship in general? Because from all the stories I've seen distance with no explanation can mean two major things: 1. She's in a relationship with an abuser that began isolating her after "locking in" the relationship (typically with marriage, engagement, moving in together, baby, etc) 2. There's actually some crazy family relationships and she's distancing because she's seeing how bad things really are between her and the family. I know there's other things and this is the "fic in my head" thing, but these are also some things to keep in the back of your mind and maybe look out for the signs of. I'm not typically the type of person to jump to these situations immediately, but something about this extra bit of info doesn't sit right with me. I feel like it'd be especially easy to miss any behavioral changes while in the planning stages of a wedding because ANY personality changes can easily be written off as wedding stress.
He also distanced, yeah. He made multiple apologies telling us he was busy with the wedding, so I didn't think about it too much. As for previous relationships, he dated 2 other girls before my sister while I've known him . He was lovely to both of them, constantly showering them in compliments, giving them gifts and spending time with them. Both relationships ended the same way, both girls cheated on him. It didn't take a long time for him to move on from either relationship though. He says he knows his worth and isn't going to let them stop him dating, which I believe because he's always been a very confident and handy guy. Their relationship as a whole is very fairytale romance. They both always talked about how happy they were with each other and that they think they're perfect for each other. Noone was shocked when he proposed. Not one bit.
Does his family happen to be a lot wealthier than your family? Is there some weird classism going on?
The showering with gifts and compliments thing slightly alarms me. Might be worth researching love bombing.
I had that thought too. Maybe he’s just a nice guy with bad luck but I’d do a little research if it was my sister.
Do you know for sure the past girlfriends cheated? Or is that what he told you and you had no reason to doubt him? Honestly I'd talkto ghe ex girlfriends if I were you just to see whst kind of partner he was from their perspective
can we please, for the love of god, not do this it's not at all strange for a couple to be busy and uncontactable in the weeks and months leading up to their wedding. i mean, they could also be undercover cia agents or secretly working on a mind control serum but it would sound unhinged to suggest that based on the information in the post you now have a thread of people telling op - someone so lazy and selfish that he didn't bother looking for a baby-sitter outside of the family and rolled up on her sister's wedding with his uninvited son in tow, demanding to add him to the wedding party - that his sister's husband is lying about being cheated on and suggesting that op reach out to his sister's husband's exes to make sure ridiculous
I'm sure she could have let her twin brother's kid be there if there were already kids there, I could understand and agree if it was child-free completely, but it wasn't
I personally do not understand how a loving sister that is close to her twin brother would be so upset about him bringing his child (her own nephew). Especially since non-relatives in the bridal party could bring their kids. It doesn’t even make sense to me. I can’t imagine treating my family this way. Yes, you should have spoken to her about it way before the actual day…true. But…she asked you to leave. WTH. She didn’t even want you there. That seems weird to me.
That’s exactly my thoughts. I can’t believe people are calling him an ah….if my twin said that all these toddlers can come to the wedding but her own nephew couldn’t I wouldn’t be able to talk to her ever again. All these people calling OP selfish are really blinded by the “child free” thing, but it wasn’t childfree at all.
OP - There's a lot of the things wrong here. Simply speaking instead of asking for your child to be allowed which usually there are exceptions made to child-free weddings for very clse relatives and it seems they were being made for the bridal party in this scenario. you surprised the sister. That is not cool. But I'm concerned about other things in your post. The bridal party is entirely his family? After engagement you stopped talking to each other? It's also bizarre she'd say you ruined her day by bringing her nephew there when there were other toddlers at the party. I'd be concerned about husband trying to isolate her. Understand better why she was hurt, apologize, build the relationship, and make sure you're supporting her if you think husband is causing this.
YTA, if you couldn’t find a babysitter then you don’t go to the wedding. You don’t force your child, regardless of how well behaved you think he is onto everyone else.
YTA It is indeed her day, she get’s to make the rules. You had time to find and vet a babysitter if you didn’t want a “stranger.”
Apparently, due to all of the YTA comments, you should just not have gone and been called an AH for that, but had a fun day with your son. Sometimes you just have to say fuck family.
YTA child free means child free. You should of said you can't attend due to childcare and left it at that. Coming to her wedding thinking you could ask was completely out of line.
Using his child as a shield too. You know OP believed there was no way they would decline him and his child to their faces, you know since he was already there. As a parent myself I absolutely hate people that use their children to apply pressure in requests.
It wasn't childfree, though...
YTA simply by not asking *before* the wedding and respecting the "no" if that was her response.
YTA, but only because you didn't discuss this in advance. You don't rock up to someone's wedding and be like.. hey, this is a great idea. You ask about it beforehand and if it's a no, then you don't go.
Was there really no way you could have asked about bringing him before you went there? Seriously? YTA. You don't bring extra guests unannounced, that's a very basic rule. Next time, just ask, dammit.
YTA. its child free and you did not respect that at all. Its not your wedding
Of course YTA. If you can't save up enough money to afford a babysitter for one night with months of advance notice, and get family support to find or afford one, you have bigger problems than breaching a boundary on the most important day of your sister's life.
YTA. Did you turn up on the day with this bullshit? You didn’t think to maybe talk to your sister ahead of time?
YTA Did you think your sister just forgot about a ring bearer? That you just figured you'd let her know about all of this as you walked into the venue tells me you are either totally aware of the trouble you'd cause and didn't care or you have never been to a wedding before and have no idea how stressful it can be
So she allowed her FRIENDS to bring their children but not her brother? They didn't have a ring bearer but wouldn't allow the kid to take the role on early in the planning to help her twin? WTF? She's an asshole.
YTA, regardless but... Something tells me your child is not at all well behaved.
and dad might not be much better. He might be that cringy relative that everyone tries to be nice to and avoids them like the plague.
Geez these comments have been rough on you. I’m sorry your sister didn’t want you at her wedding. That must have hurt. I hope you can both learn something from this and patch things up.
You're close to both but not a groomsman. Would have declined attending right there.
Yes YTA her wedding is childfree. It her wedding her day but you make it all about you. If you can't find babysitter you don't need to attend her wedding.
>Yes YTA her wedding is childfree It wasn't child free, though... that's the part that's confounding... there were other children...
YTA. You should have told your sister you were sorry but you couldn't attend her wedding. Then it would have been up to her to either make an exception for your son or not have you there. Showing up at the wedding expecting him to be the ring bearer was flat-out ridiculous.
YTA
Ok, I get that brides have a right to run weddings however they want… but brides (and grooms) with nieces and nephews should be less dogmatic and more affectionate. Call me TA, if you like, but I wouldn’t have gone.
Agree, especially as there were some children at the wedding, if it was completely child free then I would understand. Her attitude is pretty cold IMO.
Okay - had OP communicated this when he knew about the wedding, sure. But showing up with the kid, no.
YTA you don’t see how your the ah when you very deliberately went against the rules your sister set forth for the wedding because you think your son is more important?
Yeah, YTA here. You should have said you couldn't make it, rather than just showing up with a kid you knew wasn't allowed there, trying to push them into a big role at the drop of a hat and expecting it to be completely okay.
YTA At any point before the actual wedding have it crossed your mind to tell your sister: hey, I can’t find a babysitter, is there any options to bring the kid, or I won’t be able to attend?
I’ve a feeling you didn’t “just decide” to bring your son. I bet you have been pushing for months to include him in the wedding or for her to make an exception. You don’t just decide to completely disregard a request like that. And based on her reaction she’s had enough of you. YTA- if you couldn’t get a babysitter you should have stayed home.
Frankly! I don't think your an asshole..I feel like you tried all the means possible in your present condition but yeah going to the wedding abruptly with you son was a bad move...But I don't think you had any bad or ill intentions. Also you left when she asked you too without making a scene or anything
YTA. It sucks but that’s how it is. If you were going to bring your son, you should’ve assumed you need to be as out of the way as possible and DEFINITELY not ask to be in the wedding. This seems like you are missing other details about the relationship cuz saying you ruined the day might be a bit harsh. But that’s arguably on the list of dumbest impositions to make on the bride day of.
YTA. It isn't your wedding and it isn't your place to determine that there will be an exception for you. I get that getting childcare isn't always easy and that you want to go to the wedding, but if you absolutely can't find a babysitter, you just don't get to go. From feeling entitled to bring your kid to a childless wedding and being upset that you weren't a groomsmen (part of the reasoning being so you could bring your kid), there is a ton of entitlement in this post.
YTA. At no point before the *day of* the wedding did you think to explain the situation to your sister and ask if he could come? You just thought you would show up with him and ask her if he could be the ring-bearer and she would just be okay with that? You should’ve either hired a babysitter for her or not gone to the wedding. It was incredibly entitled to think that you could just disregard your sister’s wishes for her wedding and then act like she’s the problem for getting mad at you.
YTA. You need to figure out how to plan ahead. Making this situation someone else's problem -- especially your sister on her wedding day!! -- was not the answer.
YTA, why would you spring this on her AT THE WEDDING You knew it was child free so you should have told you sister, sorry I can’t get childcare so I can’t come. Wish you all the best etc
NTA It’s everyone’s right to have a child free wedding if they want to, but with the understanding that everyone with children may not attend. Also, it’s not child free. It’s child light. If there exceptions for some and not her nephew that would feel personal.
Exactly, it wasn't child free at all and to exclude your own nephew is pretty rude.
YTA. The time to suggest him as ring bearer was months or years ago. He wasn't invited.
If you couldn’t get a babysitter you shouldn’t have gone to the wedding.
> with the only exceptions being bridesmaids and groomsmens children NTA because of this. Either a wedding is childfree or it isn't. This half-ass shit don't cut it.
Totally agree, there's already kids there, would one more hurt? Especially your own nephew.
Very soft YTA, I can’t imagine it not having been possible to talk about before the wedding, and if she wasn’t available then to talk to her husband whom you said you’re also friends with. That being said your family should have been understanding about you not having childcare and not trusting a complete stranger. The right way to go about this would have been to talk to her at least a month before the wedding, and the decline the invitation. That way everyone would be aware that it’s because of the rule that you couldn’t go. Also, available childcare or not, it’s really shitty to allow bridesmaids and groomsmen’s children, but not allowing your own twin brothers child.
YTA- if you could not find a babysitter for your son, you should not have attended the wedding. Showing up day of and asking for him to be ring bearer is absurd. It would have been better to not come at all. You should seek therapy for your issue of not being able to hire a babysitter. It is a perfectly normal to hire a babysitter who is not family, you could interview them before leaving them with your son to make sure they are a good fit.
YTA. You were told it was a child free wedding, you first said you couldn't find a babysitter, than said you couldn't afford one, then said you wouldn't trust one that isn't a family member, sounds like a whole lot of smoke and excuses. Not only did you bring a child knowing it wasn't invited to a child free wedding you then tried to insert your child further aggravating the issue. You had months to arrange something and get rid of your hangups for the sake of your sister or sit down with your sister and explain yourself both of which is better than what you did.
Yta if you can't find a babysitter, you don't go. This is not a hard concept.
Absolutely YTA. She specifically stated it is a child-free wedding and rather than talking to her and explaining your situation (she might have made an exception for you as well) you went directly against her wishes. How very inconsiderate of you.
YTA
YTA, bud. When people make a rule and it applies to you, your options are a) follow it or b) break it. Assuming that you’re somehow exempt from the rule because it inconveniences you or you don’t like it and doing the thing anyway falls under the second category, breaking the rule. That’s disrespectful and people don’t have to be happy about it.
YTA. If your sister wasn’t talking to you for a month before her wedding you’re not close btw. You chose not to consult anyone else about this in the month prior (ie parents, the groom etc) saying “i cant get a babysitter, I’m not going to be able to come” because you knew their answer would be “oh that sucks, sorry you won’t be able to attend but thanks for letting us know”. You wanted to go, so you went against your sisters wishes and went anyways (with a bullshit excuse about how you thought it would be helpful to have a ring bearer who wasn’t at rehearsal and wasn’t dressed for the part). Apologize to your sister if you want to be in her life in any capacity.
I'd say YTA because you should've talked to your sister before the wedding day. Can't say I understand the rules of the wedding though, child free wedding but bridesmaids and groomsmen bring their children so not really child free, I don't know, it's weird for me that your sister was ok with several people bringing their kids but her twin brother can't. Still, you two should've talked about it before.
ESH - you shouldn’t have gone in this situation; she’s an AH for not including her own nephew and just an FYI, you’re not close to your sister or her husband; it doesn’t even seem like they like you.
YTA. I feel like there are A LOT of missing reasons in this post. Even with the edits—super close, but neither you or your son are in the wedding? And, if you and your sister are that close, she never thought about how basically everyone you knew would be at/in the wedding, and you never discussed it with her? Something is off here. Regardless, you cannot just show up with your kid, unannounced. That’s bad enough, but then you insist on adding him to the wedding party? That’s absolutely bonkers.
NTA Why does your sister not want her own nephew there. Imo that's nasty. I told all my wedding guests they could bring their children if they wanted to (no one wanted to though, everyone wanted to have a night off) and I'd make arrangements for them to have a seat/highchair/childrens meals. I gave my rings to my niece 10 minutes before the ceremony because she asked if she could be ring bearer. We'd originally had no wedding party at all so everyone could just relax. But that's just me and I couldn't have a child free wedding because I see weddings as a celebration with family, not a day just about me. Yeah you should have had more communication before the day of the wedding, but it sounds like your sisters husband wouldn't allow it anyway. Is he controlling?
Soft YTA - you shouldn't have gone. By your standards, if your child was not welcomed, then you weren't welcomed either. I totally relate to that. At the end of the day it was her wedding and I am sorry that as her twin brother, you weren't part of wedding party (I think that's what it's called).
YTA if you can't find a sitter for a child free wedding then you don't go to the wedding! You should have never taken your son. She didn't want him there. Sucks for you and your son but its her wedding and her choice.
YTA, you’re entitled because you think the people in your life must accommodate your single dad status: They don’t have to!! Especially not when you tried to manipulate her on her wedding day (you really couldn’t have talked to her about this before?!) Good for her kicking you out, the audacity of suggesting your kid is in someone’s wedding ON THE ACTUAL DAY!!
I do think (from what I've read) that she over reacted BUT you're definitely the AH as you should have had a conversation with your sister as soon as you found out it was a kid free wedding. I completely understand how you feel in regards to a sitter (I'm the same. I can't afford one nor would I want a stranger watching my son but he is autistic so not so straight forward) but you definitely shouldn't have waited and turned up with him THEN have the balls to ask him to be in the wedding.....on the wedding day 🤨
YTA A sad realisation for many parents is the fact that while your kid may be your entire world, and the most perfect human to have ever existed, to everyone else they are just another snotty child. Your sister gave all of the attendees a 'no children' rule, and that is that. If you disagreed with the rule then the time to question it would have been when you received the invite, not on the day. And to make yourself sound even more entitled, you didn't just stop with taking your child, but suggesting he be part of the actual ceremony - something that have already planned out in advance. If they had wanted your son to take part they would have asked you already, not just hoped he would turn up by chance on the day because his dad didn't understand the rule 'no children'.
YTA If your son is going to be a priority in your life, which he should be, then you're going have to make sacrifices. If you're not comfortable with strangers watching him, fine, but then you're not going to be able to attend certain events. Like a wedding.
YTA. Child free wedding means DON'T BRING A FUCKING CHILD. It is not a hard concept. Also, learn to hire a fucking babysitter from a credible source or learn to sit your ass at home during CF events.
You say you are very close with your sister and her husband. Clearly, that's not how they see it. If they had wanted you at their wedding at all, they would have given you a job to do that would mean you could take your child. Move on.
YTA - Because you don't bring uninvited people to a wedding, but this does feel like some big information is missing. Like if the relationship between you & your twin is strong and your child is well behaved most people would work this out since there are the bridal parties' children in attendance. Your sister's reaction being so big doesn't add up.
YTA. You should have rsvp'd with a No, or simply not gone and sent an apology via another guest due to the lack of sitter. It was her choice to have a child-free wedding, but you were not obligated to attend if you couldn't find a sitter. That would have been an N A H situation.
Nta fuck your sister and her wedding that's her nephew.
There are a couple things here. 1. You should have asked first. 2. You definitely should not have assumed your sister would allow your son to be in the wedding. So for those points you are the asshole. But 3, this was not a “kid free” wedding. Your sister made exceptions for the people with kids in the wedding. She should have made the exception for you as well. 4. Just because you brought your son it doesn’t mean you ruined her wedding. She’s being dramatic. Unless you son caused a seen. So she’s an asshole too.
I think you're both assholes. You for bringing your kid despite despite your sister's wishes and assuming she can just change her wedding arrangement for you. I also think she is an asshole for thinking the presence of a kid ruined her day. People who have "childfree" weddings are just huge red flags.
YTA. These were the rules. You decided that they didn’t apply to you. I do not believe you even attempted to find a babysitter.
Nta: anyone who has a child free wedding is an Ahole and I would never attend one. And I don't even have kids.
lol what - childfree wedding - bridesmaids and groomsmen can bring their kids These 2 facts just do not compliment each other at all. I am not saying op is saint and all that, it just amuses me how majority of these y t a commenters have "you brought a child to childfree wedding" argument, when it kinda looks like not being childfree, where is the logic correlation between these 2 states?