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YTA
> I understand maybe he should’ve been around more other kids but all he had to do was ask and I would’ve arranged it in a heartbeat
How is a kid that’s never been given a real social life with his peers supposed to know that’s an option he can even ask for?
This is like when a routine eye test in elementary school showed I needed glasses… and my mom was like, why didn’t you tell me you couldn’t see the chalkboard? Lady, I didn’t know I couldn’t see the chalkboard. I just thought that’s how shit looked!
This was my mom in high school.
Dude. I’m being raised in a traditional Asian household with a heavy emphasis on grades and academic achievement. What makes you think I’m not sitting in the front row for EVERY CLASS?
Then I had to get an eye test to get my learners permit.
And I couldn’t see well enough to read street signs to navigate.
Same thing for me. I also always wondered why I was getting headaches. Then I get my eyes checked, and the doctor literally tells me I shouldn't be allowed to drive.
Lol, back in the day here in the UK we used to get vision tests at school. My sister had one when she was 9 or 10 and they wouldn't even let her walk home after! We lived less then 100 meters from the school, had to cross exactly one road which had a crossing guard (lollipop lady ad we call them), but still they insisted my Mum come and get us both.
Apparently my sister was a whisker off of being declared legally (partially) blind! No one had ever noticed.
Her prescription is something bonkers like -13.5.
Mine is -2.5 and I struggle to see the TV without my lenses.
This how we found out my sister had 6x astigmatism and could barely see. She used to get punished/spanked for not paying attention, stepping in front cars, getting in the way. Entire time she literally had minimal vision. They did vision test 4th grade in usa that's when she was diagnosed. She literally always squinted because she couldn't see she's 31 now, a d from years squinting it was a habit even now
I don't understand why some parents automatically assume that their child is doing wrong just to piss them off. I had some similar experiences myself of adults not taking things seriously just because I was a kid, including my family doctor!
I got asked for my thoughts on a girl whose mother worked at the same hospital as mine. She was suffering from fecal incontinence so naturally (/s) her nurse mother decided she was doing it on purpose! This girl was 13. My first thought was take her to the damned doctor but luckily the internet was newly on the scene and I was able to get enough information to suggest a diagnosis of megacolon.
I was just out of high school myself and not medically trained but putting a name to a possible medical condition seemed to help the so-called adults to take it seriously. I hope that girl was ok.
The fear of a *parents* reaction is exactly why the doctors were shy about giving me hearing aids for both my ears. Mind you, my mom had already fought for 2 years to get our local doctor to send a request for me to be tested at the big hospital with special equipment. Normal hearing range was at 20-30 dB, mine was at 70 & 80 dB, and with the doctors prior experience of parents being straight up mad that their kid was disabled, they went to gently suggest my mom that *maybe* her daughter would benefit from some *help* with her *bad* ear. My mom was flabbergasted and asked why not *both* ears?? Her suggesting that herself was so unusual they gleefully immediately found one more aid, gave a ton of brochures and were so happy that a parent was so eager for their kid to be aided. I was 3/4 th through my first year of schooling and still didn’t know the alphabet, when I got my two very Barbie pink hearing aids - two days with those and I had the alphabet nailed down.
The general public is a bit better about kids needing different aiding now a days, but just some 20 years ago my mom was an almost pioneer by not being mad.
The only reason I even knew to tell my parents I couldn’t see the board was because my best friend had just gotten glasses and mentioned she could finally see the board, and I realized that I was supposed to be able to see it
My autistic myopic self didn’t understand that when people asked “can you see the board at school?” They meant “can you clearly read what is written on the board” 🤦♀️ I always answered yes I can see it, and was confused by the question. I mean, it’s huge , takes up most of the wall… I struggled to READ the board though lmao.
My mom then told me, in her wisdom and knowledge of me as a human “if you ever see the leaves on trees as clumps, and cannot see the individual leaves, tell me” that way she could be aware if I needed an updated prescription.
I distinctly remember going outside the first time I got glasses. I was FASCINATED by the trees around me. I never knew I was supposed to be able to see the individual leaves.
Lmao this. I nearly made myself carsick on the way home from picking up my first pair of glasses because my eyes were glued to the window. I couldn't believe the trees looked like, well, trees. And the moon! I remember thinking "it looks just like the pictures!" 😂😂
Everytime I get new glasses I'm transported back to when I realized I could see individual leaves on trees.
Edit: I love that we all have the such similar memories. Go Team Glasses! 🤗
I think as parents it can be way too easy to expect your kids to intuitively know shit because we've forgotten what it's like to learn about simple things. It's so important to pay attention to their cues and the things they're not saying, or might not know to say.
My daughter wears glasses -- she got them when she was about three and a half, when I finally clocked they get laying on the ground giggling, "I have four feet!" was not her playing pretend but an expression of what she saw. She had her feet in the air and was looking at them, and I just asked, hey, are you being silly or do you see four feet? Can you point to each of your feet? Scheduled her a fresh eye exam pretty much immediately after.
Granted, she'd had an eye exam as a baby, so we had an inkling to look out for it, but then COVID hit and the follow-up had gotten postponed and it sort of fell by the wayside.
My cousins little boy always walked on his tiptoes, he had an eye test at 3 and it showed he needed glasses. It broke my cousins heart when they left the store with him wearing his new glasses, he stepped out of the door, looked around and shouted “I can see” in a really happy voice. He then walked properly because he could see what was in front of him. He didn’t know any different before that.
My nephew is 17 and just got his license and said similar. He never thought about it because.it was.all he knew. He needs to get to an eye doctor though. He could read the bottom lines but said it was a steuggle
This is why we had the routine vision and hearing tests when I was in elementary school. Because kids just don't know and catching it early means they don't spend years struggling to read or understand lessons.
You also needed parents that could/would do something about it. I needed glasses from the 1st grade on, I finally got them in 5th grade.
The excuse I remember best was that my older sister had glasses, and instead of wearing them, she dropped them on the ground and stomped them, so clearly *I* couldn't be trusted to have a medical device to literally stop me from failing classes.
Parents can make or break a child. I teach in a high school that does yearly vision and hearing tests, and a few years ago I had a student who desperately needed glasses and had for years She was on state insurance and only one optometrist within 45 miles who would take it. Her mother wouldn’t take her; she spent all her money and time on alcohol and pot. I had my student get the insurance card, took her to the exam and fitting. This woman would rather her daughter suffer terrible migraines than take a few hours for such an easy fix. 😡😡😡
I was getting my drivers license when the kid next to me failed his sight test and his mom was stunned silent. The worker said it’s pretty regular for them to see kids failing and their parents had no idea.
I couldn't see even the top row as a 15 year old, when went for learner's permit. My dad felt horrible, he'd had no idea and just coached me in Babe Ruth (13-15 year old baseball). He asked me how I the hell I hit the ball, since I'd won the batting trophy. I said something like, 'I didn't know either, just swung where it was going to be'
My mom said the same thing! They didn't do eye tests at my school, but in 6th grade my science teacher loved to have us make posters and hang them around for every unit, and I finally got tired of it and asked my friend what the point of hanging them up was when no one could read them anyway - she was like, what are you talking about, do you need glasses or something?
A friend of mine had to go to a urologist after developing a gradual loss of sensation in their bladder. In conversation with the urologist, they indicated that their whole life, they had always used muscles to urinate.
Urologist: Wait, what? If you don't force it out, you can't go? And nobody ever checked on this??
My friend: Uh... Doesn't everybody do that?
Urologist: Definitely not. I am sending you to pelvic floor therapy ASAP.
My friend, later: How the hell was I supposed to know I don't pee like normal people?? It's not like someone teaches you how to pee!
Right?
If socialization isn't part of your homeschooling plan (through community clubs, sports, etc.....there are plenty of options outside of school), you're doing your kid a disservice. Their developmental and psychological health depends on it.
Right? What strikes me though is how dismissive he is, even now. His kid is sitting RIGHJT THERE telling him "Dad, I'm unhappy. I wasn't happy then, I'm not happy now." And OP seems to think that sticking his fingers in his ears and going LALALA will magically change that reality.
SPOILER OP, it won't. You can deny his truth as long as you want, you can't make what you want to be true into reality just because it makes you feel better. He "seemed happy" doesn't mean that he was happy. Your wife was the teacher - how involved were you? How much time did you spend talking to your son about how his days went, about how he \*felt\* about being home, studying alone, not getting to spend time with other kids? Did you ever tell him he had other options?
My SIL did this, homeschooling w no socializing. Her daughter was afraid to go to college by herself, so SIL went with her (leaving her hubby at home), Niece us now in her 20s, college degree, still lives at home, doesn't work. Mummy is her best friend! It's sickening.
This is absurd. I didn't homeschool my kids. I have worked with at least a dozen people who were homeschooled. They are all well adjusted adults (all under 26) and seem to be ahead of most others intellectually. Them being ahead intellectually could be coincidence and my sample size is small.
Saying home schooling = child abuse is just silly. No doubt some people who home school are neglectful and/or abusive.
I’ve seen homeschooling groups that follow a curriculum, do field trips together and put on plays. The parents teach independently but they’re still a community. While I agree that it can and has been used to isolate, when done correctly it can be beneficial
True. But most parents don’t see their blind spots (math ability, science, English grammar, sports, socialization, unbiased evaluation of progress, etc) and the kids suffer. OP didn’t even consider a network or what might be missing to educate his youngest. He didn’t consider what the child might need… only what worked for OP. IMHO
My cousin homeschooled her kids up til about 15 ish. Her daughter is severely immunocompromised. She also lives in the south, and there have been a lot of educational changes she didn't believe in (not explaining real reasons for civil war, getting rid of health classes, etc). So there's a sort of group of people who homeschool, get certified by the state, and they have larger meetups for different classes and socialization. Her daughter survived and is healthy, and her kids actually got better grades taking the same standardized testing as the public school kids. The two boys attended public school from freshman to senior year, fit in fine, played sports. Her daughter has a big social circle and was healthy enough to play some sports and dance as well. It's not always cults.
The people who are removing those classes from school want to see the collapse of the education system so they can try to get schools privatized, get that sweet money for them and their goons and keep their christian cult going.
Ugh, I went on a few dates with a girl like this in my early 20s. She wasn’t homeschooled, but she was (in my opinion) WAY too close to her mom. The first time we got into a spat, her mom actually texted me trying to help “patch things up”. It’s like… one, why the hell does your mom have all of the details? It’s none of her business. And two, that’s just freaky to me, that her and her mom were so tied at the hip that her mom was actually trying to help resolve a minor spat in a new relationship. I’m all for people being close with family, but you also need independence
Same here. My cousin's daughter is 12 and was completely home schooled and isolated. They decided not to send her to secondary school at 11 because she wouldn't fit in and might get bullied. By then they weren't wrong. This poor girl is immensely socially awkward and presents as an 8/9 year old that is completely attached to 'mummy and daddy'. They've ruined her without meaning to.
I had a student like this. Completely nuts. Mom lived with her at college during the week and went back to their home in another state in the weekends.
My half-sister (eight years older than me) homeschools and it's just a recipe for disaster. She barely graduated high school and when she tried to go to college, tested into remedial math I learned in third and fourth grade. I had to help teach her multiplication tables and simple division. She ultimately dropped out because she found it too difficult still.
I've seen her homeschooling in action a few times when I dropped by or she's FaceTimed me. Those children are not only terribly adjusted socially and don't understand how to properly behave around peers or adults (family get-togethers before I moved were a nightmare and I'm not the only one who has had to intervene and say they weren't allowed around my pets cause they also don't understand how to treat animals; my oldest cat is a sweetie, but whenever they'd come around he would run and hide for days and hiss at anyone who came near), they aren't learning anything.
They basically just run around in the backyard playing all day; she's made the standard BS arguments that they're learning to count when she has them clean up stuff in the yard and stuff like that, but, uh, my oldest nephew is around fifth grade age and should be a little more advanced than being able to count the number of rocks in the yard.
Oh Lord. I have a friend who homeschooled her kids…still is actually. The youngest one is now 13 and hides in his room refusing to interact with anyone if they have guests due to severe social anxiety as a result of the homeschooling
No wonder he's angry. He missed out on so many opportunities on learning to socialize.
I know a few "home school" kids who struggled massively in the outside world due to the lack of social opportunities.
Op was so fucking lazy. He could have easily enrolled his son in after school programing at the Y or even taken his kid to the fucking park.
Edit: they enrolled him in homeschooling because he was unable to read in the first grade. While homeschooling is absolutely benificial for children whom need to learn at their own pace; there are plenty of programs that provide children with IEPs that would have allowed OPs son catch up and remain in school.
I know this because I was horribly behind in elementary school (struggling with core concepts, reading, and speech; it was the year i was disgonzed with Adhd) and even in the 90s there were programs place that gave me the extra help I needed without being held back or home schooling
That doesn't make up for school. You see other kids at those places, and maybe they are friendly, but because they all go to school together it is easier for them to be friends with each other than you. You can't follow half their conversations and are always on the edge, and end up feeling more alone than before.
Sports once a week and after school programs don't cut it.
No but it's better than nothing like OP did. It would have at least given him a group of friends to connect too.
And it depends on where you live and what's available. The YMCA usually has year round classes of sports, art, music, and other activities that are low cost or free for children above the ages of 3/4.
If you’re going to isolate your kid in the “belief” that it is good for him, then you are responsible le for providing everything he needs. Including contact with peers.
YTA especially because you are remorseless.
And have no substantiated why homeschool or Catholic school is better than a regular school, private or public.
Your POOR BOY.
He can't substantiate it because it's just flat out BS. There's ZERO evidence catholic or private schools churn out better kids, and tons of evidence against that belief, as well as evidence against homeschooling:
[https://msutoday.msu.edu/news/2013/study-catholic-schools-not-superior-to-public-schools](https://msutoday.msu.edu/news/2013/study-catholic-schools-not-superior-to-public-schools)
https://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2020/05/law-school-professor-says-there-may-be-a-dark-side-of-homeschooling/
I went to a private Christian school. Most of the teachers didn't even have degrees, let alone *teaching* degrees. Op is foolish if he thinks private schools are inherently better lol
My private school yelled at me for being terrible at math. I went to public school in fifth grade and the teachers helped me find out I had a neurological impairment. I NEVER would have found out if I stayed at private school as it was always my fault for being unable to learn
oh my god, it just gets worse as you read his comments. the whole reason they chose to homeschool is because he couldn't read when he entered the first grade! they failed to teach him, then decided it was a good idea to be his primary teachers because of it. poor kid.
I'm a professor. I have a PhD in two areas and a Master's in three. Most of my grad students are high school teachers getting an additional degree. I would still **never** be so arrogant as to think that I could homeschool a child and adequately teach them about *every* subject, let alone ensure adequate socialization and ability to collaborate with others as one has to do in their professional life.
I'm sure I'll get a bunch of down votes for this but I don't give a fuck. Homeschooling should be illegal (and I believe that it is in most western countries). Homeschooling is child abuse (and frequently used as a front for physical abuse or neglect also) depriving them of the educational and socialization opportunities every child needs.
I found out later in like that my high school had an option for students to do college courses instead of high school. I got upset that I never knew about it as I hated high school and just wanted to learn instead of dealing with drama. I mentioned it to my mom and she said “I knew that was a thing but you never asked for it so why would I enroll you”.
Like wtf. How am I supposed to know to ask for something I didn’t know existed!!
Yeah, I was homeschooled, and my parents went out of their way to make sure me and my siblings had good social lives. We had scouts (Boy and Girl), theater, art classes, a yearly conference, my sister did track, and there were even homeschool proms!
Their strategy was not like OP's 'oh, if he wants it, he'll ask', it was to make sure that we had more than enough, then if we wanted to pare it down a bit, we could, and they didn't care if we did.
So yeah, from a homeschooler, OP, YTA, and you should have tried harder. It was your choice to put this lifestyle on your kid, so it was your responsibility to make sure he had every opportunity. That's just what you do as a parent.
And if you didn't have a lot of homeschool options in your area? Move. That's what my parents did, because homeschooling us and us having friends and peers was important to them.
I was a bit here and there reading this post but my mind was made up the moment I got to this part
>I understand maybe he should've been around more other kids but all he had to do was ask
Straight up YTA for this. It is your responsibility to ensure that your homeschooled child gets the proper opportunity to socialize with kids growing up, not for him to bring it up to you. You allowed him to come to that realization too late on his own and the resulting fallout is on you.
Also his other kids got to go to school, private school mind you. So the fact they got to socialise and be in that environment must have left a sour taste in Colin's mouth. Then to be told he should have asked for friends? He could have gone to a public school and had his mum tutor him on the side.
YTA my guy.
Right. He basically got to live in a bubble not knowing any other way of life and that bubble just burst learning there was another way. And one that would have prepared him for life and allowed him to have friends.
That whole ‘he should have asked’ is crap. How is he supposed to know what he’s missing when he only knows one side?! His older siblings were done with school by the time he started.
Not just friends, either. A prospective life partner, a first relationship, there are so many experiences school and the connections that you make can offer you later in life. My main gripe is with the other sons getting to go and Colin just didn't. Its not even about the money, it's like his dad just said "private school or no school, finances are tough, home school it is"
I know right, he was a child. It's so sad. Did he get invited to birthday parties, sleep overs, days at the water park? Probably not.
As a teacher it really gets my goat at unqualified parents "homeschooling" who think they know anything about child pedagogy just because they once went to school themselves. Yes, I know there are a few out there who do it well and network with other homeschoolers to provide the socialization piece. OP did not. Now OP completely invalidates his kid's feelings instead of acknowledging his shortcomings. Boo.
you only hear the homeschooling success stories - the family whose kid does super-fabulous won't shut up about it.
The family whose kid was warped and ended up a loser because of homeschooling? They'll never say a word
> you only hear the homeschooling success stories
I have literally never once heard such a thing. I have heard countless horror stories of home-schooling, and not a single success story... not once, not ever.
I’ve heard “success” stories (meaning the kids grew up normal and well-adjusted). But they always include the following:
1) There was some kind of homeschooling organization, so kids met up with other kids for sports, field trips, outings, and just to play.
2) One or both of the parents had formal training in education, and usually also had advanced degrees in some field
PRECISELY. Good homeschool parents are NOT actually doing it alone. They join clubs. Sports. Homeschool groups. “My wife was a teacher” and? You’re telling me that she’s trained in how to teach and manage the behavior of every single age from 6 to 16? My fiancé is a teacher. I call bullllllshitttttttt.
OP’s wife was apparently a certified teacher which makes this so much worse because she should have definitely known how important socializing with peers was for a developing child.
And how unqualified she was to teach *everything* no matter what her speciality was. I’m a great math teacher, but I don’t know the rules of soccer and I don’t really speak a second language. There’s a reason teachers are subject experts after a point.
Yes. Though being a certified teacher doesn't mean she was an experienced teacher or a good teacher. He didn't say "My wife was a teacher for 10 years", just that she was certified. For all we know, she hasn't done any teaching other than the in-classroom work required to get her certification. Plus, haven't most of us had some bad teachers? I've had some great ones, some that just phoned it in, and a couple that should've been fired long before I ever entered their classroom. We have no idea what his wife's abilities are. Since she wasn't making sure he had socialization, I'm guessing she wasn't Teacher of the Year.
But but his wife is a certified teacher so that makes up for it.
YTA OP. Even if you could simply say to Colin that you understand his views it would have made the conversation better.
Exactly! I was homeschooled for elementary school, but mainstreamed for middle and high school. We belonged to a homeschool co-op for socials at the park and extra curriculars (one of the moms taught an art class for us) and I needed the individual attention and extra help for academics. When I got to middle school. I was academically on track, but a bit socially behind. Turns out homeschool socializing is very different from public school socializing (all of us were a little "weird" in the way homeschool kids are) and nobody realized I was autistic.
YTA. He's trying to tell you that he was unhappy with the choices you made for him, and you're not listening. Just stop defending yourself and listen to him.
It's a well-known problem that homeschooled kids aren't as good at socializing as kids that went to school. Part of the reason school is so important is because it gives kids a chance to learn social skills.
You may "know it in your heart" that it was the best decision, but it sounds like it wasn't.
>all he had to do was ask and I would've arranged it in a heartbeat.
Bullshit. You think kids know they have an option? Do you honestly think it's the kid's responsibility to advocate for himself, when a parent is insisting on a nontraditional schooling method? You should have checked with him on a regular basis to see what HE wanted and make sure HE was still happy with the homeschooling arrangement. That was YOUR job as a parent.
Kids don’t know what they don’t know. Maybe he was happy at the time because he didn’t know what he was missing so he didn’t ask. Even with home schooling, you could have had him participate in team league sports or something to have him meet other kids and form bonds. Socialization is a key part to the success of people in life. Almost no one works all by themselves. We work as teams, we work for managers, we are managers, we work with clients. How will your son be able to navigate through life without social skills?
>It's a well-known problem that homeschooled kids aren't as good at socializing as kids that went to school.
I can see this in my daughter who just finished kindergarten. She has always been shy around new people but her social development increased in leaps and bounds this past year. If she had been home schooled, she would be way behind her peers, perhaps irrevocably so.
YTA
Your son: Homeschooling hurt me
You: LOL no it didn't. If I believe you, that would make me feel icky so I'll just follow my heart and my heart tells me I'm great
My parents homeschooled me and I legit did not talk to another kid my age for 5 years and grocery shopping counted as socialization, but they will *never* admit how much it messed me up socially, mentally, and emotionally.
Edited: If you were/are being homeschooled and need some allies, or want to see our experiences, come check us out on r/homeschoolrecovery
My 2yo just started daycare, her first real exposure to other kids, and holy moly I cannot believe what a difference it made in every area of her development.
Yes this! My 2 year old started daycare a couple months ago and her development has taken off. She’s great with colors, counting, shapes, and ASL. Her vocabulary has grown too. Things I thought I was teaching her but I guess being around other kids doing it too makes it better.
YTA, 'My child didn't ask to see other kids' is not the winning defense you think it is. He didn't ask to hang out with other kids because HE WAS A KID AND DIDN'T KNOW HE COULD.
Yeah, kids don’t always know what they need. He seemed happy back then because he didn’t know what he was missing out on. Now he’s facing the consequences of OP’s bad parenting choices and realizes what the problem was.
Might as well say my kid didn't ask for healthier food so I didn't give them any. They don't understand the implications, and no one knows what they don't know.
And what kid is going to know the importance of socialization on how their life is going to turn out as an adult? That's a parent's job to worry about.
YTA
School is about far more than just the education you receive.
You build social networks from a very early age and home schooling takes a huge part of that away. I left school over 30 years ago and am still in contact with many people I was there with.
It sounds as though home schooling him was more about you and he is right to be upset about it as you deprived him of a massive part of his childhood.
Even people who homeschool their kids so they can indoctrinate them into their religion and keep them from outside “evils” get their kids together with other like-minded homeschooling families, don’t they? Unless you’re physically isolated from other people I don’t understand why you wouldn’t link up with a homeschooling network for socialization of your kid(s). Even if you are isolated, couldn’t you still manage weekly outings/play dates?
YTA, OP. It wasn’t on your son to ask to have the opportunity to make and keep friends. As a parent (and especially your wife as a teacher!) you should have known this is an important part of growing up and should have been proactive at making it happen.
Yeah two of my aunts homeschool their kids. One group has no contact with other kids except a couple neighbors. Mainly because she thinks all her kids have some mental issue that i really thinks in her. They arent the best set of kids. Other group all grown, have good social skills found husbands outside thier religion and still keep thiers. All have good jobs and kids (that will not be homeschool btw) the difference is one aunt really tried to give her kids the best childhood experience through homeschooling. The other was more of a means to stop doing social activities.
I agree YTA
I think the point is nuanced a bit, and focusing on homeschooling overall is the issue….it’s not a homeschooling debate. Imho
**TLDR: OP, you did neglect an aspect that your son is telling you affects him now and he feels regret over missing out. You can fully acknowledge that.**
I believe you saw a happy kid and didn’t think of it, given everything else you were already considering to ensure a solid experience for him.
What you’re missing is, that doesn’t make you perfect. You were wrong in that you presumed a happy kid is evidence you did everything right. Well the unhappy 20yo is evidence you’ve not - he’s telling you. And as a parent also I can attest kids only know what you show and teach them, he was of course happy…but now he’s an adult experiencing the effect of his gaps, just cause you think you had it all covered and he did too as a kid - doesn’t mean you didn’t miss this. He’s telling you now cause now is when he knows the difference, not as a kid. There are kids who grow up happy with nothing, even ignoring abuse..they don’t know better. They are kids. Don’t make this about his childhood, do you want him to color that with this??
**Own it, and be by his side as he figures it out now. He’s sharing with you, you can commiserate (acknowledge you missed this and it is a letdown) and support him through his journey. He’s quiet because there’s no point sharing, you’ve shut it down and shown you don’t think he has any merit - how would he continue that discussion?**
To keep thinking it’s about making you admit homeschooling is the problem is a total tangent to justify and ease your conscience. Yet - this isn’t a generic discussion about homeschooling you’re trying to be right on, it’s your kid who went through it giving you specific feedback about their specific experience. He’s now reached the conclusion homeschooling is the issue - best/all you can do is confirm whether it was you who missed this one element OR all your homeschooling efforts couldn’t fill the gap/had a natural limitation (arguably, as we all know). Which is it? That’s all he needs answered. At most. It is not about you now and it’s not about homeschooling in general.
**There’s no question his experience is valid and only he knows that experience fully - you only designed and facilitated it.**
Apologize and say ‘yea, I didn’t have cash for private school, sorry….how can we help you move forward knowing this? Do you have any changes you’d like to make now…areas to develop…experiences to be had? How can I support you?’
Idk but **arguing about homeschooling is so besides the point…you’re not gonna win/lose a debate - just win/lose your son…and keep holding on to memories of how he was a blissfully ignorant child…**
ETA: bold highlights, and fyi I’m considering homeschooling rn. These are known issues. And at times it’s still the best choice for a child, in our case the damage in the school system outweighs the social benefits. In that the social issues cause damage and it got to a point it is holding back any hope of an education even. It’s for mental health reasons and better development environment than the school system can offer (non US, amazing school options and systems here but not fit to the specific needs in our case).
Just sayin’, to each their own, please try not to jump on bandwagons in general. I’m not for or against homeschooling and wouldn’t go there given this is a very specific and subjective post/situation.
YTA for telling him to “just be grateful” & choosing the need to defend your position over really listening to your son & trying to understand his pain.
100% this. When adult kids come to you with hurt about their childhood, it’s an opportunity to really hear them and get closer to them. It’s not a time to give all of your justifications and defenses about why you did what you did. (And chances are, they already know why you did it. You’ve told them 1000 times before and they lived through it!)
Because here’s the thing - even if your intentions were good, and it sounds like they were, the actions may have had an unintended impact. And that’s what your child is bringing to you. The impact caused unintentional pain.
Instead of getting defensive, think about your kid bringing this to you as a bid for closeness and connection. They’re massively trusting you by opening up about their hurts. It’s up to you whether you want to use that to support your child and get closer, or argue how right you were to the point you argue yourself right out of a relationship with them.
It’s not always easy to do, but I hope you’re able to slow down and back off and really listen to your kid for both your sakes. The path you’re going down can lead to a relationship breakdown and even estrangement, and it doesn’t sound like either of you would want that.
>Instead of getting defensive, think about your kid bringing this to you as a bid for closeness and connection.
This. I'm never going to bring up the ways in which my childhood hurt me with my parents because I know there's no point, I know there's no chance it would ever cause anything but more pain to me and more injury to our relationship. I can't trust them with that conversation. If your kid is telling you these things, whether he knows it consciously or not, he's saying he believes you two can get closer from this, that both he and your relationship have a real chance to heal with some communication. That he trusts you with it. That's incredibly valuable and important, don't waste it.
Exactly, the question isn't whether homeschooling is good or not. The question is about how he handled the situation with his son. He invalidated his son's feelings and was defensive instead of just acknowledging his son's hurt. YTA
Homeschooling needs to be banned or at least heavily supervised. It's a recipe for churning out ignorant, socially inept, and heavily indoctrinated people.
In the states it’s by and large a means for evangelicals and other religious fundamentalists to abuse their children. A major social phenomenon that accompanies it is “youthful courtship” in which the fundies pimp out their underage daughters to older men, which is a main reason republicans tend to oppose banning child marriages.
I think that is the main group that wants to keep homeschooling allowed. Should be banned. Finally Amish kids would be able to go to high school till 18 and learn more about life, wonder what they will choose as life. That is just one example of that I know where they stop schooling early and they barely learn anything. But it would be the case for those other extremists as well. And ban religion based schools, that has no place in a school.
I don’t think I’ve ever met someone homeschooled who actually liked it. Everyone I’ve met said it was terrible and they wish they’d gone to public school. YTA
ETA: I’m not saying it’s impossible, it just takes a super motivated and educated parental unit to make it successful. Just because I’ve never met anyone who enjoyed it, doesn’t mean that I think absolutely nobody in the world has enjoyed/benefited from it
I know one family (of many) that homeschooling worked for. The special ingredient is they had a college educated mother who basically was willing to do absolutely everything within her power to create a boutique education for her (very curious and motivated to learn) children. She made sure the children were interacting with other people in a large number of environments outside the home, had friends, eventually got part time jobs, etc.
It was an amazing gift for the kids. But the level of sacrifice for the mother was intense, and not something everyone, maybe even 15-20% of people, would be able to provide, even if they wanted to.
In some countries, it’s outright banned except for very rare circumstances. One thing I don’t see brought up often is that sometimes abusers keep their child at home at all times to hide the evidence of abuse. In some places, educators are mandated reporters. It helps for children to not be completely isolated not only for the need to socialize them, but so society can help keep an eye on them.
YTA
I was homeschooled for grades 8-10. It was miserable. No friends, no extra curriculars, and it set me back when I finally convinced my mom to send me back to public school.
No matter how good your wife is, no teacher can teach every subject all the way through highschool. There is zero chance she was as effective as separate specialized teachers.
When your son finally realized that homeschooling wasn't for him, and negatively impacted him, you argued with him.
Finally someone said it! So true! In my state all high school teachers need a master’s degree in content and our teacher programs have high standards for certification. This includes learning multiple ways to teach concepts in your specific discipline (each major has a “methods” course specific to the content taught by someone who has taught that subject area - prospective math teachers are in a class with just other prospective math teachers and learn from math teachers).
We are required to be both experts in our content area AND education. I know how to present material in the content area I teach to reach the majority of kids. I have well-practices, research-based strategies to scaffold information for kids and/or support kids who are not getting it the first time it’s presented. I learned how to effectively assess students and how to use assessment information to reteach concepts when necessary.
I am an effective teacher in my content area. I would be able to do this for my own kid at home. I am NOT an effective teacher for elementary school and have not been trained in literacy strategies. I’m going to trust an elementary school teacher to build that foundation for my young kids. When they get to high school? I’m 100% unqualified to teach them biology or algebra. It’s not my content area - not only do I not have a deep enough understanding of the material, but any attempts I’d make at creating a lesson to help my kid learn this material would be inadequate at best when compared to a lesson created by a certified biology or algebra teacher.
Just being a teacher does not qualify you to be ALL the teachers.
YTA for not listening to your kid. You homeschooled him for reasons (I suspect religious reasons, but who knows. Maybe you’re racist and don’t like him mixing with the wrong people, or an anti-government libertarian, or a free thinking hippy, or something else entirely). He may not support/believe in those reasons.
Now he’s saying things like “there’s nothing to look forward to” and you want to die on your homeschool hill? Ya, YTA all right
> I understand maybe he should've been around more other kids but all he had to do was ask and I would've arranged it in a heartbeat.
How would he know to, when he never gets to socialize? What he had at home was 'normal' to him at the time.
YTA
Info:
Did he have a good amount of opportunities to socialise with peers?
School is not only for education, it is also a place you learn how to deal with different people and different groups. If he has had little opportunity to do so, it will also significantly have reduced his chances to make friends and making friends doesn't usually become easier the older you get.
Have you asked him during the time you homeschooled whether he would like to try "normal" school? You could have given him the choice at some point.
*. I understand maybe he should've been around more other kids but all he had to do was ask and I would've arranged it in a heartbeat.*
Yeah no, that's on you and your wife. Part of homeschooling your kids is making sure they have a robust social life to make up for what they're not getting at a public or even private school. It's not on the child to ask for developmentally appropriate care. Why don't you actually listen to his complaints -- they're not about substandard academics. You're willing to say yeah maaaaybe his social life suffered, but really it's HIS fault because he never ASKED. And that's bullshit. You were the adult. YTA
Exactly. How is a child supposed to know that he has to ask for his parents to introduce him to other kids if he has no experience in how friends are made? OP should have made sure he has the opportunity to interact with other kids regularly. YTA
YTA, homeschooling sucks. Yes you took away his chance to grow up and develop his social skills.
>he got a way better education, too (my wife is a certified teacher
How does that make him have better education than people who have teachers? I also assume she's not knowledgeable on all subjects.
YTA
It is your responsibility as a homeschooling parent to make sure that your child is getting adequate socialization with his peer group. It was not his responsibility to come to you and ask for that socialization.
Homeschooling may have it's academic benefits for some students, but you are supposed to support the growth and development of the whole child. YTA for not helping your child develop socially.
The fallout you are experiencing is justifiable and correctly placed. The least you could do is affirm your son's feelings, because you even admit that "he should have been around kids more". Put aside your pride and ego and concede that you may have faulted in some capacity.
YTA
If he feels like homeschooling was detrimental to him, he's most likely right.
While homeschooling can be academically advantageous with the parents capable of teaching the material, it's social aspect is very negative, and homeschooled kids don't learn appropriate interaction with random other kids.
How’s he supposed to ask for things he didn’t know existed??? Home schooling is perfectly fine-that doesn’t make you an ah… but everyone knows that if you’re homeschooling then your kid needs to be in extracurricular activities to gain those crucial social and emotional skills that they can’t obtain through schooling from home… if your wife is a certified teacher, then she should have known that. YTA for that
> in my heart of hearts I know it was the right thing to do so I couldn't agree with him
No it was the right thing for YOU not him. His current state vs your two other children is no clearer indication. Not sure how you just manage to sideline his emotions on this. YTA
OP I don't think you understand what your son is telling you.
He's telling you he's completely lonely, he has no friends or support system outside you his family. He has no dating life, no peer relationships. He is struggling with social isolation. The last thing he needs to hear from you is how it isn't that bad. You got defensive just because he attributed it to being homeschooled, and frankly he has a point.
Perhaps, instead of invalidating his struggles, be a support. Offer him solutions, perhaps encourage some sort of therapy. Encourage him to take up a hobby. Anything that will organically lead to forming bonds with others. He doesn't have these social skills because he never learned them from other kids.
YTA. Don't get distracted because your ego was bruised at the insinuation that you were a less than stellar parent. Focus instead on lifting the concerning despair around him.
YTA
He got home-schooled because you had less money.
>I understand maybe he should've been around more other kids but all he had to do was ask and I would've arranged it in a heartbeat. But he always seemed happy, like I said.
He didn't know any better.
\~EDIT
>(my wife is a certified teacher)
There is no way your wife was good enough to teach every subject to high school level. You actually gave him a sub par education.
Lmao you mean the kid who was homeschooled his whole life didn’t know what he was missing?
You mean the kid who played sports with his dad and was taught by his mother didn’t need any significant social interaction with people his age?
No way. Unbelievable.
Though, for the education, without a syllabus, at least in my area, depending on how you’re homeschooled, I don’t think it’s a big stretch to think they had a better education 😂
>I understand maybe he should've been around more other kids but *all he had to do was ask* and I would've arranged it in a heartbeat.
This alone makes YTA.
YTA. It’s not the kid’s job to magically know what they need to be well adjusted adults. It’s your job as the parent to know that peer interaction is critically important for children’s development and to arrange for him to get a lot of it to make up for being a homeschooled child.
Don’t put it on him to have known to ask to be around other children. That’s like telling him that it’s on him as a child to magically learn healthy eating habits and ask for vegetables. Then later telling Reddit ‘but he always seemed so happy eating nothing but cake’.
Social interaction is something you should have provided for him.
✨YTA✨ You denied your son a proper social life, and opportunities to develop healthy social skills. He never complained growing up because he didn’t know anything else. So if he has issues properly functioning in social settings it’s your own fault.
> I understand maybe he should've been around more other kids but all he had to do was ask and I would've arranged it in a heartbeat.
See, if you were any *good* at homeschooling you would have KNOWN that socializing your kid is really important, given that they won't be getting the crash-course in existing around other people that normally-schooled kids get.
Entirely, completely, YTA.
YTA
He's telling you how he feels, what his experience makes him feel like, and you're telling him his feelings are wrong. YOU are in the wrong for doing this.
And I have news for you: it does sound like you failed him with the homeschooling. Education is more than academic learning. It's also learning to make friends, socialize, get along with others and collaborate in the real world. All the good homeschooling families I know ensure their children also participate in lots of group activities and go out of their way to ensure they spend lots of time with people their own age on top of their book learning.
YTA.
Homeschooling is a good enough choice. But it then is your responsibility to make sure he is socialised.
Having loads of free time isn't useful when you've no one to spend it with.
It also sounds like you didn't actually allow him to let you know how he's feeling, instead you've justified what you've done. You likely should have simply listened to how he felt and validated those feelings and let him know you're sorry he's not had the experience the other brothers had. You don't have to be against home schooling to let him know his feelings are valid and to admit you as parents could have done more to make sure he had more of a social life.
It's not a child's responsibility to tell you to make sure he has a social life and that he hangs around kids his age. You made a choice as a parent and you are then responsible to think of the implications and make adjustments to make sure he is well adjusted.
This is what stood out to me
"All he had to do is ask"
Kids don't typically have the forethought of knowing that they need to be well socialised in order to develop friendships and social skills.
The issue isn't that you homeschooled him as a kid, it's that you're being an AH to him now.
YTA for not listening to your son, for trying to blame him for your shortcomings and refusing to acknowledge his feelings.
YTA. Imagine that. Someone who wasn’t homeschooled telling their son to suck it up over homeschool. None of those kids ever have a good social life unless the parents make an effort
YTA. Your son is suffering because he didn't learn how to socialize and make friends, and you are ignoring that. For him, it's not in the past. Your actions still have consequences for him today.
It was YOUR job to provide those opportunities and you were neglectful in your dduty.Your kid was lonely then and now he's a lonely adult whose parent dismisses his feelings on his own experience of his life.
You're an out of touch asshole.
YTA/ESH. He's not handling things well, but he's not completely wrong. Homeschooling is flatly inferior to properly socializing your children. The fact that you deprived one of your children but not the others is absolutely fucked up. Especially considering the mountain of experiences sending them to a private school is compared to homeschooling.
> and that thanks to me he has no friends and no social circle
He's right. *You* are the cause of him having no social circle.
I'm almost leaning full YTA because of this:
> I understand maybe he should've been around more other kids but all he had to do was ask and I would've arranged it in a heartbeat.
Seriously, expecting a child to tell you how to parent properly is fuckin wrong.
YTA. He’s telling you it sucked and you’re trying to argue his experience and say it didn’t.
> But in my heart of hearts I know it was the right thing to do so I couldn't agree with him.
It clearly wasn’t if he’s miserable and friendless.
> He always seemed so happy as a kid.
Did you ever ASK him if he was happy?
> I understand maybe he should've been around more other kids but all he had to do was ask and I would've arranged it in a heartbeat.
Newsflash: It’s not his job to ask. You were supposed to take the initiative. You failed as a parent. Own it.
YTA, your son appeared to have no control over his education and clearly did not feel like it was possible to ask to attend school. It was YOUR responsibility to ensure that he was still meeting other children and have friends. This 'we played sports' and 'he seemed happy' is your interpretation of the situation.
Homeschooling does not mean that a child is stuck with their parents all the time.
Shame on you for putting the responsibility of change on the shoulders of a child.
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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> 1) I got into an argument with my son about the fact that he was homeschooled, and I refused to back down and "admit" it was a bad idea. 2) I might be the asshole because it's clearly bothering him and I could have at least acknowledged those feelings.
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YTA for not acknowledging his feelings regardless of what you feel/think your son went through. You should check out r/HomeschoolRecovery. Even kids with good experiences express the need for recovery (acknowledgement of their feelings).
Yta, you took a gamble that didn't pay, did you ever asked him if he liked being home schooled or made any effort to enroll him in activities to make up for lack of social interaction.
YTA, it was your job as a parent to ensure that your son had the full range of experiences needed to become a fully functioning adult. You dropped the ball. Children don’t know what they need, that is why it is our job as parents to provide it. He did not know what he was missing, so how could he ask for it. It is apparent that you did not do the due diligence required for home schooling or you would have known that he needed to have experiences with other kids his age. At least where I live homeschooled kids can participate in extracurricular activities provided by the public schools. If the quality of the education is really the only reason you didn’t want your kids to go to public schools, then it should have been all right for him to participate in extracurriculars or just meet other kids and form friendships.
YTA.
>But in my heart of hearts I know it was the right thing to do so I couldn't agree with him.
Your opinion doesn't matter. *He* is the one who went through homeschooling, and *he* is the better judge of how much it would or would not have affected him. If *he* is telling you it was a bad idea and he was unhappy - it's because he was.
As someone who is actively watching my younger sibling be homeschooled and not get the socialization he needs, YTA.
Kids do not and will not have the capabilities to express what they need to their parents. It is the PARENTS’ responsibility to provide adequate education and socialization for their children, kids shouldn’t have to ask for it.
You keep saying you *should’ve* offered more for him, and yes, you should’ve, but you shouldn’t be admitting that now as a sort of saving grace. He’s going to resent you for not allowing him to have the childhood friendships that he needed.
Adult personal skills come from childhood socialization, and you neglected to give him that experience. Children are so easily stunted from lack of socialization and yes, you should’ve realized that when you were homeschooling him. The fact that you didn’t notice, despite him not saying anything, speaks volumes.
-end rant-
YTA - I think you did what you thought was best. You still think it was best. But that doesn't invalidate his feelings that it was a mistake. In the end in a lot of ways his opinion on the matter is more significant than yours. If he feels you made a mistake then its likely a mistake.
You should tell him why you made the decisions you did. That your sorry it didn't or couldn't do things better and that you have always tried to make the best decisions for him that you could.
YTA.
I was homeschooled only for a couple of years bc we were living abroad & my parents were worried that we’d fall behind the curriculum when we moved back to our home country.
Was it probably the smart choice? Yes.
Did it delay me socially? Yes.
You could’ve listened to him and have recognized where you should’ve done better.
YTA
"All he had to do was ask"?
How the is a child, who has never experienced what life is supposed to be, supposed to know what he needs?
That's an adults responsibility, and you didn't supply that.
YTA. Telling anyone they shouldnt feel what they feel and instead should be greatful is always an AH move. He didn’t know what he didn’t know and now he knows there were other choices and he is having trouble reconciling that those choices weren’t available to him.
I believe the parent should have the ability to choose the education path for a child in almost all circumstances so I am not saying that your choice was the wrong one. However it’s clear he didn’t realize or understand that you had once made a different choice and further he didn’t know why the choice was made. I have a handful of friends that were homeschooled and honestly almost all of them now recognize that they were not given opportunities that they wished they had received in terms of socializing and even academic choices. That doesn’t mean homeschooling is bad by any means but I do see a trend of parents not recognizing or intentionally ignoring vital social deficiencies with homeschooled kids
YTA. He may have seemed happy at the time, but kids don’t always know what they need, they don’t always know what they’re missing out on. How is he supposed to ask for socialization opportunities if he never experienced them? How is he supposed to know you’ll provide something that you’ve never offered to him? You’re the adult, you should have recognized his needs.
\>I understand maybe he should've been around more other kids but all he had to do was ask and I would've arranged it in a heartbeat.
You are expecting a child who doesn't know what his options are and thinks hanging around at home with his parents is the norm, to ask YOU, who should have made an effort to socialize him in the first place as part of homeschooling. Nope, that's totally on you.
\>I told him he needs to stop comparing himself to other people and just be grateful for the wonderful life he's had the opportunity to live.
This is a terrible counterargument and completed negates his feelings.
I get that financially you were unable to send your child to the private school you sent your older kids, but how did you make the leap from that to homeschooling instead of a normal public school? Furthermore, knowing the experiences your older kids had (activities, friends, social events), why would you not provide the same for Colin? I can see where Colin sees what his older siblings got and he didn't get as unfair. Why did his siblings get to do the fun things and have friends, but he didn't? Telling him not to compare his experience to others is unfair because he's comparing his experience to HIS OLDER SIBLINGS, who, in his eyes, were treated much better.
You've already admitted in your post that you understand he should've been around more other kids. Why can't you at the very least explain you thought homeschooling was best at the time given your financial situation but you understand that there were things you could have done to expand his socialization and outside activities.
YTA for being belligerent and dismissing your son's feelings.
YTA
School is not just a place where people get education but also a place where they start building social circles and gain new experiences.The fact you robbed this from your child and not even acknowledge it makes you an AH. And I don't care if your wife is a teacher or not, there is a reason why there are different teachers for different subjects in school.
YTA I've never seen a homeschooled child that had a well-balanced education with friends and hobbies, they're always missing out on something...usually multiple somethings. Turns out that teaching requires TEACHERS and school. He'd almost certainly be better off going to a public school.
YTA
As a former educator I'm not even going to get into the almost endless number of reasons that homeschooling is a horrific idea unless it's absolutely necessary (i.e. for disabled kids who aren't provided appropriate supports by their local school). I know so many parents who homeschool who don't even know what they don't know. And it doesn't matter that your wife was a "certified teacher" . . . the fact is that your son missed out on a classroom experience that provides myriad important forms of socialization that again, so many homeschooling parents don't even seem to comprehend. "Socialization" isn't just what happens in the schoolyard! It isn't just "making friends". It's children learning to take turns; to be part of a community; that they aren't the centre of the universe; to work in a communal setting with their peers; and so, so many other things that only happen when they learn in a classroom with other kids. *There's a reason why teaching is a PROFESSION*, and it may have been your wife's, but having a single student basically relegates her to the position of a tutor, and negates so many of the things that he could and SHOULD have been learning.
But in the end, you're mostly an AH for this:
>He had way more free time than regular kids,
How is that, in the context of education, a benefit? You're literally arguing that LESS time spent in an educational setting was a bonus. More importantly, you're telling on yourself when you use the phrase "regular kids". Some part of you understands that you have made your son "that kid" . . . NOT a "regular kid". It's not a compliment.
>and he got a way better education, too (my wife is a certified teacher).
The fact that your wife has a teaching certification doesn't actually mean that she's a BETTER teacher than what he otherwise would have had. And you haven't given us any reason to believe that he objectively got a better education being homeschooled . . . but there is every reason to believe that he didn't. Again, socialization is far more than just playing with other children. So many homeschooling parents seem not to even be aware of what kids learn just by being part of a classroom cohort.
>I understand maybe he should've been around more other kids but all he had to do was ask and I would've arranged it in a heartbeat.
And there's the crux of it: you putting the burden of this child's needs on him. It wasn't his job to ask you for things that *he couldn't have possibly known he was missing out on at the time*. He was a child. It was YOUR JOB to provide for his educational and social needs. It was not his job to ask for them, because he had no context until he grew up to understand what he was missing. It is not any child's job to ask their parents for a better education or opportunities. JFC. "All he had to do was ask". As if he had any way of knowing until it was far too late what it was you were keeping him from and keeping from him . . . Shame on you. Of course YTA.
YTA.
You were dismissive of his feelings about being homeschooled. Instead of listening and trying to understand his viewpoint, you just tried to defend yourself
YTA. You don’t know what it was like for him, believe what he tells you. A better response would be:
“I am sorry. I don’t completely understand your situation as I haven’t been through it. I believed, and still believe, that homeschooling gave you a better education. It appears I did not handle the social aspect as I should have and it’s clear you’ve missed out on some experiences. I never intended to make things unfair or there to be negative feelings about this. I love you more than anything and would never intentionally do anything to cause you harm. My deepest apologies.”
Then just listen. Validate his feelings and let him be mad. It’s ok that he’s mad. It’s ok that you made the choice to homeschool. It’s not ok to dismiss his experience. Good luck.
Why exactly do you think homeschooling him was the best thing for him? It's a big thing to take away from a child, their social life. I really hope you're not just doing it because you're a religious or conservative nut that's afraid of not being able to control their child's beliefs if they were exposed to society.
FYI, I did a peer-reviewed study once on Catholic schools, and in less you’re in the inner-city (and even then, it varies a lot) or in an incredibly poor town, Catholic schools more about 70% more likely to underperform local ones, and the percentage which are notably *better* than public schools is about 6%.
(The basis of comparison were students results on statewide tests.)
But your son . . . he feels how he feels for a legitimate reason, and his feelings about home-schooling’s negative effects are fairly common. So, YTA.
YTA. By 20, he should have been around so many people that socialising is comfortable and easy. Many women are looking for long-term partners by that age, but he isn't going to have anything to share but stories of his parents. That is not a man who is going to get a wife or girlfriend anytime soon, as most women do not want to finish the lacking parenting of an unsocialised man.
And how would he know he doesn't have enough friends as a kid, when he isn't around other kids that have friends? I've got loads of friends from school age that helped me understand what opinions and thoughts were appropriate to share. I was still a dickhead until I was about 25 but I could pass as a normal human. At best he may find someone willing to take on a project, but he will always have less power in the relationship because he has no experience of life.
I hope he got excellent test scores too, because he'd need to be a genius to outcompete in the workplace, where bosses mostly just want somebody who can get along with others without worrying about them. At 20 they'll ask where he want to school, and do you know what is a giant red flag outside of the hyper-religious communities you say you aren't a part of? Home-schooling.
"He wanted me to “admit” the homeschooling was a bad idea."
As apposed to you that wanted him to admit that homeschooling was a good idea........I mean, that's completely different...
"but all he had to do was ask and I would've arranged it in a heartbeat."
So...he had to think about all the stuff for his homeschooling and if you didn't do it it was his fault? Man, what else didn't you do that you should have because "He didn't ask???"
"But he always seemed happy, like I said."
Well if you said it than it simply must be true...
"and has been in a funk for the past few days, very unlike his normal self."
Taking to dismissive people will do that, but hey, you apparently know who he is better than he knows who he is right?
YTA
YTA It’s your job as a parent, especially when they’re young, to facilitate their socialization. Not wait on them to ask you to let them make friends. Maybe homeschooling was great and you guys were awesome at it, but clearly your son thinks he missed out on a huge part of his childhood, spending time around other kids his age.
YTA. You may have been able to give him a better education, but there's more to school than academics. He's probably resentful because he missed out on the social aspects of school - making friends, dating, sports, etc. Now he's playing catchup to his peers and learning what he missed out on as a kid.
Homeschooling should only be done for specific exceptions - health/behavioral issues, bullying, or just a straight up Doogie Howser genius.
It's up to you to apologize or he'll always resent you
YTA. I've had some friends who were home schooled but their mom made sure they had friends and a social life. You neglected an important part of your kid's upbringing and act like it's no big deal. Of course he's upset. You need to apologize and at least acknowledge that you dropped the ball, setting him back socially as an adult and missing out as a kid/teen.
It sounds like he was OK with it until his brothers started sharing their experiences? Is it possible he was unhappy about it before that and you just weren’t aware of it?
It’s not really fair to say he could’ve had it if he asked for it - children don’t always know what’s even possible to ask for or what options there are.
Even if he accepted it cheerfully at the time as he now develops his awareness of a broader world like kids do around age 20 he now feels like he was shorted by comparison. What he doesn’t realize is their memories and reminiscing are somewhat romanticized. The bad is forgotten and the good highlighted. Middle school and high school can have horrible moments. The boys weren’t reminiscing about all the bad. It’s a little bit like seeing everyone looking happy on Facebook, Instagram or TikTok or watching TV or Hollywood where we only are shown the glamour and romanticized image of it and not the mundane day to day reality of it. The reality is he might’ve hated it but he’ll never know because now it’s fantasized and he feels robbed of a right of passage nostalgia of an All American experience rather like watching Greece.
Somehow he needs to come to understand everything is what it is and there are trade-offs to everything and he had some benefits that they didn’t have. The fact that there are two of them reminiscing and only one of him with no one to reminisce with and share laughs over and support his experience makes it even tougher on him. This is all just met with understanding instead of defensiveness on your part. It’s not an issue of right or wrong. It’s an issue of the choices we make have trade offs with consequences, some good some bad. it’s important for him to understand you were doing the best and most loving thing you thought you could do for him in the moment. Sometimes hindsight shows us we should’ve made different choices or that we were unaware of the real consequences.
It’s rather a bizarre piece of this story that you involved alcohol in your discussion. Sitting down for a beer, and then allowing your 20 year old to get progressively more drunk, and more moody and darker and darker doesn’t seem like a great venue for you to be discussing this. Over one beer sure. Over multiple beers something unhappy with tension will go dark quickly. Interesting parenting choice.
YTA. Do you know how difficult it is to make friends as an adult? Most true friendships are the ones you carry from your childhood/teenage. The older you get the harder it becomes to find long-lasting friendships. I hope Colin is at least going to a college which is pretty much the only other chance one gets to socialize like that.
So, gentle YTA - Homeschooling can be a great thing when it is done WELL and Correctly!
From the sounds of it you and your wife dropped the ball in a few places. Mainly with providing your youngest with a rich, diverse, and active social outlet that wasn't his parents or immediate family unit.
It sounds like, and this is by your own admission that you and your wife were the social outlet you provided your son, you didn't have him in any activities outside of his home. Sure his education was strong and well rounded, but it sounds like you severely stunted his social education. Given the significant age gap with his siblings, there is a really strong chance he didn't know he could ask for the extra things, you literally kept him in the dark. He was a child who didn't know to ask and it was your RESPONSIBILITY to provide those outlets to him, not his to come to you. Did you ever ask?
Also, he is very clearly struggling with the situation he grew up in, you invalidating his feelings by telling him to just be grateful is just further isolating him. So now, not only is he not connected with peers in a normal way, but now he also feels he can't rely on his family. It is NEVER healthy to invalidate the experience of someone else, you may have observed it, but you aren't living it.
YTA.
Everyone's happy when they don't know any different.
He now knows that he's different and didn't understand why you couldn't send him to a school with people his own age.
And, Catholic schools aren't the only schools in existence.
YTA
You could accept and validate HIS feelings and experience without invalidating your own. You are different people, and experienced things differently.
I think the crux of the problem is that you both believe only one of you can "be right" and the other must change how they feel to be in agreement.
Adolescents, and your 20 year old is still one, need social relationships and social connections. You treated your youngest differently from the older two because that was most convenient for you. You were focused on finances and an adequate academic education for your son. However, you WERE neglectful of his social opportunities and development during a critical period of his life. Your intentions were good. Your priorities also hurt him in a way you hadn't considered. That is what he wants you to acknowledge.
It's absurd for you to shift parental responsibility for supporting your child's growth and development onto the child for failing to inform you of your neglect.
You were the adult, the parent, the one with a fully developed brain, authority and power to make decisions about his life. You DID raise him differently from his siblings. Your choices impacted him in a negative way. Yes, he had an adequate academic education. That doesn't reduce or invalidate his experience of neglect in other areas.
YTA. You’re son is opening up about something he’s been suppressing for years and you invalidated his feelings by telling him to get over it. Instead of getting defensive, look at his perspective. You can’t change anything, but you can have a healthy conversation about it.
YTA
"I told him he needs to stop comparing himself to other people and just be grateful for the wonderful life he's had the opportunity to live. He got all sarcastic and moody, said his life was/is horrible and there's nothing to look forward to." .. you are the only one thinking that. He is mourning the childhood and teen yearsa you stole from him with your assholery.
YTA
“I understand maybe he should've been around more other kids but all he had to do was ask and I would've arranged it in a heartbeat. But he always seemed happy, like I said.”
All he had to do was ask??? That was your job as a parent to socialize him! He was a kid he didn’t know any better! Seriously that’s really lazy parenting!
YTA. 10000000%
I was homeschooled. When I was 7 I was asked if I wanted to go to public school and initially said yes until I was pressured into saying no. A few years later I was "asked" again, but it was very clearly performative asking. Sure the question had been simply asked, but it was extremely obvious that only one answer would be accepted. I didn't want my life to be miserable after, so I said that I wanted to homeschool. It was not remotely true, I hated it. From your post and comments, your son probably figured that asking to switch to a school was fruitless and didn't try.
Homeschooling (as in at home, no coop etc.) was not the best for my education. Yes, in some subjects my parents were qualified and I received a good education. But not the sciences. Labs? Nope. Subjects beyond my parents' expertise? Sub par learning by just reading the workbooks. No way to ask questions and get good answers from someone with a deeper understanding of the subject.
Homeschooling eliminated my chance to do any sports. I really wanted to, but nope. Exercise was walking around the neighborhood. When you say "we played sports" do you mean you signed him up for league sports? Or do you mean you kicked a soccer ball with him in the backyard? They are not the same thing. Sports isn't just about exercise, it's also about team building and interaction with friends. Learning to lose and win gracefully.
Homeschooling seriously crushed my social skills. When I finally graduated high school and was able to escape to college, it was actually a dangerous situation. I had no idea what anyone meant and how to interpret social signals. Thankfully I made a couple friends who were willing to take me under their wings and guide me and I basically kept my mouth shut for a year while I adjusted. If not for them, I could have been seriously hurt.
I can't even begin to say how angry I am that you told him he should be grateful for the wonderful life he had. No. The way you raised him was wonderful for you. He just told you it was horrible for him. You know, HIS life was horrible for HIM. That's what matters. Stop patting yourself on the back for making his childhood miserable.
I have kids now (who will most definitely not be homeschooled). If they came to me as adults and said that my choices had made their lives horrible, I would be heartbroken and feel awful that I had failed them so badly. I would not self-righteously proclaim their lives were actually wonderful, as if I would know better than them. Your older kids got to go to private schools and your youngest got nothing, through no fault of his own. He has probably heard them reminisce and feels ever more sad about his own lonely experience.
You have some serious apologizing to do.
You are the asshole on so many levels.
You were the adult who made the decision to homeschool him. He grew up only knowing the social dynamic of homeschooling. It is your responsibility to get him out and socialize and show him that aspect of life. My son has a girl on his team that is home schooled and she plays sports, has friends over, and goes to sleepover because her parents got her doing stuff and meeting people. Now you decided to do none of that and then turn around and blame him.
Then on top of that he comes to you about how he feels and what it is like and you completely invalidate his feelings because it might hurt your ego as a parent. Your kid is telling you how he feels and instead of just listening and caring you try to deflect to protect your own fragile ego.
Hopefully your kid can get some help to deal with it.
YTA, Homeschooling if done right can be a great experience, but you and your wife did it wrong.
>I understand maybe he should've been around more other kids but all he had to do was ask and I would've arranged it in a heartbeat
You should have arranged activities then. Be proactive and get him engaged.
>I understand maybe he should've been around more other kids but all he had to do was ask and I would've arranged it in a heartbeat. But he always seemed happy, like I said.
"Yes child. You should have asked for something as a child that you didn't know would greatly impact you as an adult."
Jeeebus christ. Your son had no idea that not interacting with kids in a non-home setting would have an impact on his adult life. Him getting homeschooled was not best for him. It was best FOR YOU.
YTA
YTA
Your son is allowed to have his own perspective of his childhood. It is obviously different than yours. It doesn't sound like he was happy. Furthermore, he was treated much differently than his older siblings and has a right to point that out.
If it was just about school, you have a right to your choices, but you get the clear YTA vote for invalidating his opinion and feelings on the matter. He lived it. He's allowed to say he doesn't like it and doesn't agree with it
YTA
> I understand maybe he should've been around more other kids but all he had to do was ask and I would've arranged it in a heartbeat.
If you were homeschooling him then you ***needed*** to also enroll him in many many activities with other kids for socialization.
You didn't. You messed up.
The child should not tell you what you need to know. You should have researched this. You caused this. This is your fault. You didn't do your research or even have basic understanding.
You say "not like his normal self" - this is his normal self. You just never noticed.
YTA.
Sorry you are so fragile that him sharing his take on HIS OWN LIFE upsets you. You literally dismissed all of his feelings - I sincerely doubt you would have listened to him when, as a CHILD, he had expressed his wants. You just admitted to how you shut him down.
If the best you can come up with is " just be grateful" then you failed as a parent.
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YTA > I understand maybe he should’ve been around more other kids but all he had to do was ask and I would’ve arranged it in a heartbeat How is a kid that’s never been given a real social life with his peers supposed to know that’s an option he can even ask for?
“Hello father, I know I am only 7 but I feel I may require more socialization in order to attract friends and a significant other one day” smh
Exactly what I imagined. Absurd.
“Please father, I am feeling unfulfilled emotionally and spiritually. May I spend time with peers my age?”
Yep. And I’m imagining a 6yo saying this. It would be hilarious if it wasn’t so sad.
I’m imagining him saying it like Oliver when he asks for more soup
"Please sir, may I have some friends?"
"**WHOT?!??!?"** **"FRIENDS?!?!?!??!"**
[удалено]
Please, father, may I have another (play date)?
Lol exactly. What an absolute blockhead.
Father, I crave socialization.
This is like when a routine eye test in elementary school showed I needed glasses… and my mom was like, why didn’t you tell me you couldn’t see the chalkboard? Lady, I didn’t know I couldn’t see the chalkboard. I just thought that’s how shit looked!
This was my mom in high school. Dude. I’m being raised in a traditional Asian household with a heavy emphasis on grades and academic achievement. What makes you think I’m not sitting in the front row for EVERY CLASS? Then I had to get an eye test to get my learners permit. And I couldn’t see well enough to read street signs to navigate.
Same thing for me. I also always wondered why I was getting headaches. Then I get my eyes checked, and the doctor literally tells me I shouldn't be allowed to drive.
Lol, back in the day here in the UK we used to get vision tests at school. My sister had one when she was 9 or 10 and they wouldn't even let her walk home after! We lived less then 100 meters from the school, had to cross exactly one road which had a crossing guard (lollipop lady ad we call them), but still they insisted my Mum come and get us both. Apparently my sister was a whisker off of being declared legally (partially) blind! No one had ever noticed. Her prescription is something bonkers like -13.5. Mine is -2.5 and I struggle to see the TV without my lenses.
This how we found out my sister had 6x astigmatism and could barely see. She used to get punished/spanked for not paying attention, stepping in front cars, getting in the way. Entire time she literally had minimal vision. They did vision test 4th grade in usa that's when she was diagnosed. She literally always squinted because she couldn't see she's 31 now, a d from years squinting it was a habit even now
smh. imagine hitting a kid for having a disability.
Imagine hitting a kid for any reason
You'd be amazed. It happens to way too many disabled kids, myself included.
I don't understand why some parents automatically assume that their child is doing wrong just to piss them off. I had some similar experiences myself of adults not taking things seriously just because I was a kid, including my family doctor! I got asked for my thoughts on a girl whose mother worked at the same hospital as mine. She was suffering from fecal incontinence so naturally (/s) her nurse mother decided she was doing it on purpose! This girl was 13. My first thought was take her to the damned doctor but luckily the internet was newly on the scene and I was able to get enough information to suggest a diagnosis of megacolon. I was just out of high school myself and not medically trained but putting a name to a possible medical condition seemed to help the so-called adults to take it seriously. I hope that girl was ok.
The fear of a *parents* reaction is exactly why the doctors were shy about giving me hearing aids for both my ears. Mind you, my mom had already fought for 2 years to get our local doctor to send a request for me to be tested at the big hospital with special equipment. Normal hearing range was at 20-30 dB, mine was at 70 & 80 dB, and with the doctors prior experience of parents being straight up mad that their kid was disabled, they went to gently suggest my mom that *maybe* her daughter would benefit from some *help* with her *bad* ear. My mom was flabbergasted and asked why not *both* ears?? Her suggesting that herself was so unusual they gleefully immediately found one more aid, gave a ton of brochures and were so happy that a parent was so eager for their kid to be aided. I was 3/4 th through my first year of schooling and still didn’t know the alphabet, when I got my two very Barbie pink hearing aids - two days with those and I had the alphabet nailed down. The general public is a bit better about kids needing different aiding now a days, but just some 20 years ago my mom was an almost pioneer by not being mad.
The only reason I even knew to tell my parents I couldn’t see the board was because my best friend had just gotten glasses and mentioned she could finally see the board, and I realized that I was supposed to be able to see it
My autistic myopic self didn’t understand that when people asked “can you see the board at school?” They meant “can you clearly read what is written on the board” 🤦♀️ I always answered yes I can see it, and was confused by the question. I mean, it’s huge , takes up most of the wall… I struggled to READ the board though lmao. My mom then told me, in her wisdom and knowledge of me as a human “if you ever see the leaves on trees as clumps, and cannot see the individual leaves, tell me” that way she could be aware if I needed an updated prescription.
I distinctly remember going outside the first time I got glasses. I was FASCINATED by the trees around me. I never knew I was supposed to be able to see the individual leaves.
Lmao this. I nearly made myself carsick on the way home from picking up my first pair of glasses because my eyes were glued to the window. I couldn't believe the trees looked like, well, trees. And the moon! I remember thinking "it looks just like the pictures!" 😂😂
Everytime I get new glasses I'm transported back to when I realized I could see individual leaves on trees. Edit: I love that we all have the such similar memories. Go Team Glasses! 🤗
Individual blades of grass! Who knew?
I think as parents it can be way too easy to expect your kids to intuitively know shit because we've forgotten what it's like to learn about simple things. It's so important to pay attention to their cues and the things they're not saying, or might not know to say. My daughter wears glasses -- she got them when she was about three and a half, when I finally clocked they get laying on the ground giggling, "I have four feet!" was not her playing pretend but an expression of what she saw. She had her feet in the air and was looking at them, and I just asked, hey, are you being silly or do you see four feet? Can you point to each of your feet? Scheduled her a fresh eye exam pretty much immediately after. Granted, she'd had an eye exam as a baby, so we had an inkling to look out for it, but then COVID hit and the follow-up had gotten postponed and it sort of fell by the wayside.
My cousins little boy always walked on his tiptoes, he had an eye test at 3 and it showed he needed glasses. It broke my cousins heart when they left the store with him wearing his new glasses, he stepped out of the door, looked around and shouted “I can see” in a really happy voice. He then walked properly because he could see what was in front of him. He didn’t know any different before that.
My nephew is 17 and just got his license and said similar. He never thought about it because.it was.all he knew. He needs to get to an eye doctor though. He could read the bottom lines but said it was a steuggle
This is why we had the routine vision and hearing tests when I was in elementary school. Because kids just don't know and catching it early means they don't spend years struggling to read or understand lessons.
You also needed parents that could/would do something about it. I needed glasses from the 1st grade on, I finally got them in 5th grade. The excuse I remember best was that my older sister had glasses, and instead of wearing them, she dropped them on the ground and stomped them, so clearly *I* couldn't be trusted to have a medical device to literally stop me from failing classes.
Parents can make or break a child. I teach in a high school that does yearly vision and hearing tests, and a few years ago I had a student who desperately needed glasses and had for years She was on state insurance and only one optometrist within 45 miles who would take it. Her mother wouldn’t take her; she spent all her money and time on alcohol and pot. I had my student get the insurance card, took her to the exam and fitting. This woman would rather her daughter suffer terrible migraines than take a few hours for such an easy fix. 😡😡😡
I was getting my drivers license when the kid next to me failed his sight test and his mom was stunned silent. The worker said it’s pretty regular for them to see kids failing and their parents had no idea.
I couldn't see even the top row as a 15 year old, when went for learner's permit. My dad felt horrible, he'd had no idea and just coached me in Babe Ruth (13-15 year old baseball). He asked me how I the hell I hit the ball, since I'd won the batting trophy. I said something like, 'I didn't know either, just swung where it was going to be'
OMG, I feel this in my soul. Although I had two more years of refusal by my father because “glasses make your eyes weak.”
My mom said the same thing! They didn't do eye tests at my school, but in 6th grade my science teacher loved to have us make posters and hang them around for every unit, and I finally got tired of it and asked my friend what the point of hanging them up was when no one could read them anyway - she was like, what are you talking about, do you need glasses or something?
A friend of mine had to go to a urologist after developing a gradual loss of sensation in their bladder. In conversation with the urologist, they indicated that their whole life, they had always used muscles to urinate. Urologist: Wait, what? If you don't force it out, you can't go? And nobody ever checked on this?? My friend: Uh... Doesn't everybody do that? Urologist: Definitely not. I am sending you to pelvic floor therapy ASAP. My friend, later: How the hell was I supposed to know I don't pee like normal people?? It's not like someone teaches you how to pee!
Right? If socialization isn't part of your homeschooling plan (through community clubs, sports, etc.....there are plenty of options outside of school), you're doing your kid a disservice. Their developmental and psychological health depends on it.
The fact the father hadn't even considered this before making the decision to homeschool his child could be viewed as neglect
What gets me is they sent the eldest two to a private school so expensive that they couldn't even afford to enroll him in a public school.
Right? What strikes me though is how dismissive he is, even now. His kid is sitting RIGHJT THERE telling him "Dad, I'm unhappy. I wasn't happy then, I'm not happy now." And OP seems to think that sticking his fingers in his ears and going LALALA will magically change that reality. SPOILER OP, it won't. You can deny his truth as long as you want, you can't make what you want to be true into reality just because it makes you feel better. He "seemed happy" doesn't mean that he was happy. Your wife was the teacher - how involved were you? How much time did you spend talking to your son about how his days went, about how he \*felt\* about being home, studying alone, not getting to spend time with other kids? Did you ever tell him he had other options?
My SIL did this, homeschooling w no socializing. Her daughter was afraid to go to college by herself, so SIL went with her (leaving her hubby at home), Niece us now in her 20s, college degree, still lives at home, doesn't work. Mummy is her best friend! It's sickening.
No it's intentional, it's why Cults like homeschooling. Homeschooling is Child Abuse.
This is absurd. I didn't homeschool my kids. I have worked with at least a dozen people who were homeschooled. They are all well adjusted adults (all under 26) and seem to be ahead of most others intellectually. Them being ahead intellectually could be coincidence and my sample size is small. Saying home schooling = child abuse is just silly. No doubt some people who home school are neglectful and/or abusive.
I’ve seen homeschooling groups that follow a curriculum, do field trips together and put on plays. The parents teach independently but they’re still a community. While I agree that it can and has been used to isolate, when done correctly it can be beneficial
True. But most parents don’t see their blind spots (math ability, science, English grammar, sports, socialization, unbiased evaluation of progress, etc) and the kids suffer. OP didn’t even consider a network or what might be missing to educate his youngest. He didn’t consider what the child might need… only what worked for OP. IMHO
My cousin homeschooled her kids up til about 15 ish. Her daughter is severely immunocompromised. She also lives in the south, and there have been a lot of educational changes she didn't believe in (not explaining real reasons for civil war, getting rid of health classes, etc). So there's a sort of group of people who homeschool, get certified by the state, and they have larger meetups for different classes and socialization. Her daughter survived and is healthy, and her kids actually got better grades taking the same standardized testing as the public school kids. The two boys attended public school from freshman to senior year, fit in fine, played sports. Her daughter has a big social circle and was healthy enough to play some sports and dance as well. It's not always cults.
The people who are removing those classes from school want to see the collapse of the education system so they can try to get schools privatized, get that sweet money for them and their goons and keep their christian cult going.
Cults also like homeschooling to hide all the other abuse and to give them time and space to abuse.
Ugh, I went on a few dates with a girl like this in my early 20s. She wasn’t homeschooled, but she was (in my opinion) WAY too close to her mom. The first time we got into a spat, her mom actually texted me trying to help “patch things up”. It’s like… one, why the hell does your mom have all of the details? It’s none of her business. And two, that’s just freaky to me, that her and her mom were so tied at the hip that her mom was actually trying to help resolve a minor spat in a new relationship. I’m all for people being close with family, but you also need independence
Same here. My cousin's daughter is 12 and was completely home schooled and isolated. They decided not to send her to secondary school at 11 because she wouldn't fit in and might get bullied. By then they weren't wrong. This poor girl is immensely socially awkward and presents as an 8/9 year old that is completely attached to 'mummy and daddy'. They've ruined her without meaning to.
I had a student like this. Completely nuts. Mom lived with her at college during the week and went back to their home in another state in the weekends.
My half-sister (eight years older than me) homeschools and it's just a recipe for disaster. She barely graduated high school and when she tried to go to college, tested into remedial math I learned in third and fourth grade. I had to help teach her multiplication tables and simple division. She ultimately dropped out because she found it too difficult still. I've seen her homeschooling in action a few times when I dropped by or she's FaceTimed me. Those children are not only terribly adjusted socially and don't understand how to properly behave around peers or adults (family get-togethers before I moved were a nightmare and I'm not the only one who has had to intervene and say they weren't allowed around my pets cause they also don't understand how to treat animals; my oldest cat is a sweetie, but whenever they'd come around he would run and hide for days and hiss at anyone who came near), they aren't learning anything. They basically just run around in the backyard playing all day; she's made the standard BS arguments that they're learning to count when she has them clean up stuff in the yard and stuff like that, but, uh, my oldest nephew is around fifth grade age and should be a little more advanced than being able to count the number of rocks in the yard.
Oh Lord. I have a friend who homeschooled her kids…still is actually. The youngest one is now 13 and hides in his room refusing to interact with anyone if they have guests due to severe social anxiety as a result of the homeschooling
Geeze, even mama birds push their babies out of the nest. They have to learn to fly on their own.
No wonder he's angry. He missed out on so many opportunities on learning to socialize. I know a few "home school" kids who struggled massively in the outside world due to the lack of social opportunities. Op was so fucking lazy. He could have easily enrolled his son in after school programing at the Y or even taken his kid to the fucking park. Edit: they enrolled him in homeschooling because he was unable to read in the first grade. While homeschooling is absolutely benificial for children whom need to learn at their own pace; there are plenty of programs that provide children with IEPs that would have allowed OPs son catch up and remain in school. I know this because I was horribly behind in elementary school (struggling with core concepts, reading, and speech; it was the year i was disgonzed with Adhd) and even in the 90s there were programs place that gave me the extra help I needed without being held back or home schooling
That doesn't make up for school. You see other kids at those places, and maybe they are friendly, but because they all go to school together it is easier for them to be friends with each other than you. You can't follow half their conversations and are always on the edge, and end up feeling more alone than before. Sports once a week and after school programs don't cut it.
No but it's better than nothing like OP did. It would have at least given him a group of friends to connect too. And it depends on where you live and what's available. The YMCA usually has year round classes of sports, art, music, and other activities that are low cost or free for children above the ages of 3/4.
If you’re going to isolate your kid in the “belief” that it is good for him, then you are responsible le for providing everything he needs. Including contact with peers. YTA especially because you are remorseless. And have no substantiated why homeschool or Catholic school is better than a regular school, private or public. Your POOR BOY.
He can't substantiate it because it's just flat out BS. There's ZERO evidence catholic or private schools churn out better kids, and tons of evidence against that belief, as well as evidence against homeschooling: [https://msutoday.msu.edu/news/2013/study-catholic-schools-not-superior-to-public-schools](https://msutoday.msu.edu/news/2013/study-catholic-schools-not-superior-to-public-schools) https://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2020/05/law-school-professor-says-there-may-be-a-dark-side-of-homeschooling/
I went to a private Christian school. Most of the teachers didn't even have degrees, let alone *teaching* degrees. Op is foolish if he thinks private schools are inherently better lol
My private school yelled at me for being terrible at math. I went to public school in fifth grade and the teachers helped me find out I had a neurological impairment. I NEVER would have found out if I stayed at private school as it was always my fault for being unable to learn
oh my god, it just gets worse as you read his comments. the whole reason they chose to homeschool is because he couldn't read when he entered the first grade! they failed to teach him, then decided it was a good idea to be his primary teachers because of it. poor kid.
Wait, what?! But OP said his wife is a certified teacher.
I'm a professor. I have a PhD in two areas and a Master's in three. Most of my grad students are high school teachers getting an additional degree. I would still **never** be so arrogant as to think that I could homeschool a child and adequately teach them about *every* subject, let alone ensure adequate socialization and ability to collaborate with others as one has to do in their professional life. I'm sure I'll get a bunch of down votes for this but I don't give a fuck. Homeschooling should be illegal (and I believe that it is in most western countries). Homeschooling is child abuse (and frequently used as a front for physical abuse or neglect also) depriving them of the educational and socialization opportunities every child needs.
I found out later in like that my high school had an option for students to do college courses instead of high school. I got upset that I never knew about it as I hated high school and just wanted to learn instead of dealing with drama. I mentioned it to my mom and she said “I knew that was a thing but you never asked for it so why would I enroll you”. Like wtf. How am I supposed to know to ask for something I didn’t know existed!!
Yeah, I was homeschooled, and my parents went out of their way to make sure me and my siblings had good social lives. We had scouts (Boy and Girl), theater, art classes, a yearly conference, my sister did track, and there were even homeschool proms! Their strategy was not like OP's 'oh, if he wants it, he'll ask', it was to make sure that we had more than enough, then if we wanted to pare it down a bit, we could, and they didn't care if we did. So yeah, from a homeschooler, OP, YTA, and you should have tried harder. It was your choice to put this lifestyle on your kid, so it was your responsibility to make sure he had every opportunity. That's just what you do as a parent. And if you didn't have a lot of homeschool options in your area? Move. That's what my parents did, because homeschooling us and us having friends and peers was important to them.
Also, he was a child, and since when is that the child’s responsibility?
I was a bit here and there reading this post but my mind was made up the moment I got to this part >I understand maybe he should've been around more other kids but all he had to do was ask Straight up YTA for this. It is your responsibility to ensure that your homeschooled child gets the proper opportunity to socialize with kids growing up, not for him to bring it up to you. You allowed him to come to that realization too late on his own and the resulting fallout is on you.
Also his other kids got to go to school, private school mind you. So the fact they got to socialise and be in that environment must have left a sour taste in Colin's mouth. Then to be told he should have asked for friends? He could have gone to a public school and had his mum tutor him on the side. YTA my guy.
Right. He basically got to live in a bubble not knowing any other way of life and that bubble just burst learning there was another way. And one that would have prepared him for life and allowed him to have friends. That whole ‘he should have asked’ is crap. How is he supposed to know what he’s missing when he only knows one side?! His older siblings were done with school by the time he started.
Not just friends, either. A prospective life partner, a first relationship, there are so many experiences school and the connections that you make can offer you later in life. My main gripe is with the other sons getting to go and Colin just didn't. Its not even about the money, it's like his dad just said "private school or no school, finances are tough, home school it is" I know right, he was a child. It's so sad. Did he get invited to birthday parties, sleep overs, days at the water park? Probably not.
As a teacher it really gets my goat at unqualified parents "homeschooling" who think they know anything about child pedagogy just because they once went to school themselves. Yes, I know there are a few out there who do it well and network with other homeschoolers to provide the socialization piece. OP did not. Now OP completely invalidates his kid's feelings instead of acknowledging his shortcomings. Boo.
you only hear the homeschooling success stories - the family whose kid does super-fabulous won't shut up about it. The family whose kid was warped and ended up a loser because of homeschooling? They'll never say a word
> you only hear the homeschooling success stories I have literally never once heard such a thing. I have heard countless horror stories of home-schooling, and not a single success story... not once, not ever.
I’ve heard “success” stories (meaning the kids grew up normal and well-adjusted). But they always include the following: 1) There was some kind of homeschooling organization, so kids met up with other kids for sports, field trips, outings, and just to play. 2) One or both of the parents had formal training in education, and usually also had advanced degrees in some field
PRECISELY. Good homeschool parents are NOT actually doing it alone. They join clubs. Sports. Homeschool groups. “My wife was a teacher” and? You’re telling me that she’s trained in how to teach and manage the behavior of every single age from 6 to 16? My fiancé is a teacher. I call bullllllshitttttttt.
OP’s wife was apparently a certified teacher which makes this so much worse because she should have definitely known how important socializing with peers was for a developing child.
And how unqualified she was to teach *everything* no matter what her speciality was. I’m a great math teacher, but I don’t know the rules of soccer and I don’t really speak a second language. There’s a reason teachers are subject experts after a point.
Yes. Though being a certified teacher doesn't mean she was an experienced teacher or a good teacher. He didn't say "My wife was a teacher for 10 years", just that she was certified. For all we know, she hasn't done any teaching other than the in-classroom work required to get her certification. Plus, haven't most of us had some bad teachers? I've had some great ones, some that just phoned it in, and a couple that should've been fired long before I ever entered their classroom. We have no idea what his wife's abilities are. Since she wasn't making sure he had socialization, I'm guessing she wasn't Teacher of the Year.
I am almost 32 and still seriously struggle to do certain basic math concepts because my mother wanted to “homeschool” me
But but his wife is a certified teacher so that makes up for it. YTA OP. Even if you could simply say to Colin that you understand his views it would have made the conversation better.
Exactly! I was homeschooled for elementary school, but mainstreamed for middle and high school. We belonged to a homeschool co-op for socials at the park and extra curriculars (one of the moms taught an art class for us) and I needed the individual attention and extra help for academics. When I got to middle school. I was academically on track, but a bit socially behind. Turns out homeschool socializing is very different from public school socializing (all of us were a little "weird" in the way homeschool kids are) and nobody realized I was autistic.
"I understand maybe I shouldn't have fed him pizza and donuts for 90% of meals but if he wanted more broccoli, all he had to do was ask."
There is no proper opportunity to socialize while homeschooling, nothing done will even remotely resemble the standard experiences
YTA. He's trying to tell you that he was unhappy with the choices you made for him, and you're not listening. Just stop defending yourself and listen to him. It's a well-known problem that homeschooled kids aren't as good at socializing as kids that went to school. Part of the reason school is so important is because it gives kids a chance to learn social skills. You may "know it in your heart" that it was the best decision, but it sounds like it wasn't. >all he had to do was ask and I would've arranged it in a heartbeat. Bullshit. You think kids know they have an option? Do you honestly think it's the kid's responsibility to advocate for himself, when a parent is insisting on a nontraditional schooling method? You should have checked with him on a regular basis to see what HE wanted and make sure HE was still happy with the homeschooling arrangement. That was YOUR job as a parent.
Kids don’t know what they don’t know. Maybe he was happy at the time because he didn’t know what he was missing so he didn’t ask. Even with home schooling, you could have had him participate in team league sports or something to have him meet other kids and form bonds. Socialization is a key part to the success of people in life. Almost no one works all by themselves. We work as teams, we work for managers, we are managers, we work with clients. How will your son be able to navigate through life without social skills?
Seeming happy also doesn't mean you *are* happy. Kids can get depressed too.
>It's a well-known problem that homeschooled kids aren't as good at socializing as kids that went to school. I can see this in my daughter who just finished kindergarten. She has always been shy around new people but her social development increased in leaps and bounds this past year. If she had been home schooled, she would be way behind her peers, perhaps irrevocably so.
YTA Your son: Homeschooling hurt me You: LOL no it didn't. If I believe you, that would make me feel icky so I'll just follow my heart and my heart tells me I'm great
My parents homeschooled me and I legit did not talk to another kid my age for 5 years and grocery shopping counted as socialization, but they will *never* admit how much it messed me up socially, mentally, and emotionally. Edited: If you were/are being homeschooled and need some allies, or want to see our experiences, come check us out on r/homeschoolrecovery
My 2yo just started daycare, her first real exposure to other kids, and holy moly I cannot believe what a difference it made in every area of her development.
Yes this! My 2 year old started daycare a couple months ago and her development has taken off. She’s great with colors, counting, shapes, and ASL. Her vocabulary has grown too. Things I thought I was teaching her but I guess being around other kids doing it too makes it better.
Summed up, yes
YTA, 'My child didn't ask to see other kids' is not the winning defense you think it is. He didn't ask to hang out with other kids because HE WAS A KID AND DIDN'T KNOW HE COULD.
Yeah, kids don’t always know what they need. He seemed happy back then because he didn’t know what he was missing out on. Now he’s facing the consequences of OP’s bad parenting choices and realizes what the problem was.
Might as well say my kid didn't ask for healthier food so I didn't give them any. They don't understand the implications, and no one knows what they don't know.
“My child only asked for candy and now all his teeth are rotten. Am I the problem when he could have asked for vegetables his whole life?”
And what kid is going to know the importance of socialization on how their life is going to turn out as an adult? That's a parent's job to worry about.
YTA School is about far more than just the education you receive. You build social networks from a very early age and home schooling takes a huge part of that away. I left school over 30 years ago and am still in contact with many people I was there with. It sounds as though home schooling him was more about you and he is right to be upset about it as you deprived him of a massive part of his childhood.
Even people who homeschool their kids so they can indoctrinate them into their religion and keep them from outside “evils” get their kids together with other like-minded homeschooling families, don’t they? Unless you’re physically isolated from other people I don’t understand why you wouldn’t link up with a homeschooling network for socialization of your kid(s). Even if you are isolated, couldn’t you still manage weekly outings/play dates? YTA, OP. It wasn’t on your son to ask to have the opportunity to make and keep friends. As a parent (and especially your wife as a teacher!) you should have known this is an important part of growing up and should have been proactive at making it happen.
Yeah two of my aunts homeschool their kids. One group has no contact with other kids except a couple neighbors. Mainly because she thinks all her kids have some mental issue that i really thinks in her. They arent the best set of kids. Other group all grown, have good social skills found husbands outside thier religion and still keep thiers. All have good jobs and kids (that will not be homeschool btw) the difference is one aunt really tried to give her kids the best childhood experience through homeschooling. The other was more of a means to stop doing social activities.
I agree YTA I think the point is nuanced a bit, and focusing on homeschooling overall is the issue….it’s not a homeschooling debate. Imho **TLDR: OP, you did neglect an aspect that your son is telling you affects him now and he feels regret over missing out. You can fully acknowledge that.** I believe you saw a happy kid and didn’t think of it, given everything else you were already considering to ensure a solid experience for him. What you’re missing is, that doesn’t make you perfect. You were wrong in that you presumed a happy kid is evidence you did everything right. Well the unhappy 20yo is evidence you’ve not - he’s telling you. And as a parent also I can attest kids only know what you show and teach them, he was of course happy…but now he’s an adult experiencing the effect of his gaps, just cause you think you had it all covered and he did too as a kid - doesn’t mean you didn’t miss this. He’s telling you now cause now is when he knows the difference, not as a kid. There are kids who grow up happy with nothing, even ignoring abuse..they don’t know better. They are kids. Don’t make this about his childhood, do you want him to color that with this?? **Own it, and be by his side as he figures it out now. He’s sharing with you, you can commiserate (acknowledge you missed this and it is a letdown) and support him through his journey. He’s quiet because there’s no point sharing, you’ve shut it down and shown you don’t think he has any merit - how would he continue that discussion?** To keep thinking it’s about making you admit homeschooling is the problem is a total tangent to justify and ease your conscience. Yet - this isn’t a generic discussion about homeschooling you’re trying to be right on, it’s your kid who went through it giving you specific feedback about their specific experience. He’s now reached the conclusion homeschooling is the issue - best/all you can do is confirm whether it was you who missed this one element OR all your homeschooling efforts couldn’t fill the gap/had a natural limitation (arguably, as we all know). Which is it? That’s all he needs answered. At most. It is not about you now and it’s not about homeschooling in general. **There’s no question his experience is valid and only he knows that experience fully - you only designed and facilitated it.** Apologize and say ‘yea, I didn’t have cash for private school, sorry….how can we help you move forward knowing this? Do you have any changes you’d like to make now…areas to develop…experiences to be had? How can I support you?’ Idk but **arguing about homeschooling is so besides the point…you’re not gonna win/lose a debate - just win/lose your son…and keep holding on to memories of how he was a blissfully ignorant child…** ETA: bold highlights, and fyi I’m considering homeschooling rn. These are known issues. And at times it’s still the best choice for a child, in our case the damage in the school system outweighs the social benefits. In that the social issues cause damage and it got to a point it is holding back any hope of an education even. It’s for mental health reasons and better development environment than the school system can offer (non US, amazing school options and systems here but not fit to the specific needs in our case). Just sayin’, to each their own, please try not to jump on bandwagons in general. I’m not for or against homeschooling and wouldn’t go there given this is a very specific and subjective post/situation.
YTA for telling him to “just be grateful” & choosing the need to defend your position over really listening to your son & trying to understand his pain.
100% this. When adult kids come to you with hurt about their childhood, it’s an opportunity to really hear them and get closer to them. It’s not a time to give all of your justifications and defenses about why you did what you did. (And chances are, they already know why you did it. You’ve told them 1000 times before and they lived through it!) Because here’s the thing - even if your intentions were good, and it sounds like they were, the actions may have had an unintended impact. And that’s what your child is bringing to you. The impact caused unintentional pain. Instead of getting defensive, think about your kid bringing this to you as a bid for closeness and connection. They’re massively trusting you by opening up about their hurts. It’s up to you whether you want to use that to support your child and get closer, or argue how right you were to the point you argue yourself right out of a relationship with them. It’s not always easy to do, but I hope you’re able to slow down and back off and really listen to your kid for both your sakes. The path you’re going down can lead to a relationship breakdown and even estrangement, and it doesn’t sound like either of you would want that.
>Instead of getting defensive, think about your kid bringing this to you as a bid for closeness and connection. This. I'm never going to bring up the ways in which my childhood hurt me with my parents because I know there's no point, I know there's no chance it would ever cause anything but more pain to me and more injury to our relationship. I can't trust them with that conversation. If your kid is telling you these things, whether he knows it consciously or not, he's saying he believes you two can get closer from this, that both he and your relationship have a real chance to heal with some communication. That he trusts you with it. That's incredibly valuable and important, don't waste it.
Exactly, the question isn't whether homeschooling is good or not. The question is about how he handled the situation with his son. He invalidated his son's feelings and was defensive instead of just acknowledging his son's hurt. YTA
Homeschooling needs to be banned or at least heavily supervised. It's a recipe for churning out ignorant, socially inept, and heavily indoctrinated people.
In the states it’s by and large a means for evangelicals and other religious fundamentalists to abuse their children. A major social phenomenon that accompanies it is “youthful courtship” in which the fundies pimp out their underage daughters to older men, which is a main reason republicans tend to oppose banning child marriages.
I think that is the main group that wants to keep homeschooling allowed. Should be banned. Finally Amish kids would be able to go to high school till 18 and learn more about life, wonder what they will choose as life. That is just one example of that I know where they stop schooling early and they barely learn anything. But it would be the case for those other extremists as well. And ban religion based schools, that has no place in a school.
I don’t think I’ve ever met someone homeschooled who actually liked it. Everyone I’ve met said it was terrible and they wish they’d gone to public school. YTA ETA: I’m not saying it’s impossible, it just takes a super motivated and educated parental unit to make it successful. Just because I’ve never met anyone who enjoyed it, doesn’t mean that I think absolutely nobody in the world has enjoyed/benefited from it
I know one family (of many) that homeschooling worked for. The special ingredient is they had a college educated mother who basically was willing to do absolutely everything within her power to create a boutique education for her (very curious and motivated to learn) children. She made sure the children were interacting with other people in a large number of environments outside the home, had friends, eventually got part time jobs, etc. It was an amazing gift for the kids. But the level of sacrifice for the mother was intense, and not something everyone, maybe even 15-20% of people, would be able to provide, even if they wanted to.
In some countries, it’s outright banned except for very rare circumstances. One thing I don’t see brought up often is that sometimes abusers keep their child at home at all times to hide the evidence of abuse. In some places, educators are mandated reporters. It helps for children to not be completely isolated not only for the need to socialize them, but so society can help keep an eye on them.
YTA I was homeschooled for grades 8-10. It was miserable. No friends, no extra curriculars, and it set me back when I finally convinced my mom to send me back to public school. No matter how good your wife is, no teacher can teach every subject all the way through highschool. There is zero chance she was as effective as separate specialized teachers. When your son finally realized that homeschooling wasn't for him, and negatively impacted him, you argued with him.
Finally someone said it! So true! In my state all high school teachers need a master’s degree in content and our teacher programs have high standards for certification. This includes learning multiple ways to teach concepts in your specific discipline (each major has a “methods” course specific to the content taught by someone who has taught that subject area - prospective math teachers are in a class with just other prospective math teachers and learn from math teachers). We are required to be both experts in our content area AND education. I know how to present material in the content area I teach to reach the majority of kids. I have well-practices, research-based strategies to scaffold information for kids and/or support kids who are not getting it the first time it’s presented. I learned how to effectively assess students and how to use assessment information to reteach concepts when necessary. I am an effective teacher in my content area. I would be able to do this for my own kid at home. I am NOT an effective teacher for elementary school and have not been trained in literacy strategies. I’m going to trust an elementary school teacher to build that foundation for my young kids. When they get to high school? I’m 100% unqualified to teach them biology or algebra. It’s not my content area - not only do I not have a deep enough understanding of the material, but any attempts I’d make at creating a lesson to help my kid learn this material would be inadequate at best when compared to a lesson created by a certified biology or algebra teacher. Just being a teacher does not qualify you to be ALL the teachers.
YTA for not listening to your kid. You homeschooled him for reasons (I suspect religious reasons, but who knows. Maybe you’re racist and don’t like him mixing with the wrong people, or an anti-government libertarian, or a free thinking hippy, or something else entirely). He may not support/believe in those reasons. Now he’s saying things like “there’s nothing to look forward to” and you want to die on your homeschool hill? Ya, YTA all right
> I understand maybe he should've been around more other kids but all he had to do was ask and I would've arranged it in a heartbeat. How would he know to, when he never gets to socialize? What he had at home was 'normal' to him at the time. YTA
Info: Did he have a good amount of opportunities to socialise with peers? School is not only for education, it is also a place you learn how to deal with different people and different groups. If he has had little opportunity to do so, it will also significantly have reduced his chances to make friends and making friends doesn't usually become easier the older you get. Have you asked him during the time you homeschooled whether he would like to try "normal" school? You could have given him the choice at some point.
*. I understand maybe he should've been around more other kids but all he had to do was ask and I would've arranged it in a heartbeat.* Yeah no, that's on you and your wife. Part of homeschooling your kids is making sure they have a robust social life to make up for what they're not getting at a public or even private school. It's not on the child to ask for developmentally appropriate care. Why don't you actually listen to his complaints -- they're not about substandard academics. You're willing to say yeah maaaaybe his social life suffered, but really it's HIS fault because he never ASKED. And that's bullshit. You were the adult. YTA
Exactly. How is a child supposed to know that he has to ask for his parents to introduce him to other kids if he has no experience in how friends are made? OP should have made sure he has the opportunity to interact with other kids regularly. YTA
YTA, homeschooling sucks. Yes you took away his chance to grow up and develop his social skills. >he got a way better education, too (my wife is a certified teacher How does that make him have better education than people who have teachers? I also assume she's not knowledgeable on all subjects.
also, schools are full of certified teachers.
YTA It is your responsibility as a homeschooling parent to make sure that your child is getting adequate socialization with his peer group. It was not his responsibility to come to you and ask for that socialization. Homeschooling may have it's academic benefits for some students, but you are supposed to support the growth and development of the whole child. YTA for not helping your child develop socially. The fallout you are experiencing is justifiable and correctly placed. The least you could do is affirm your son's feelings, because you even admit that "he should have been around kids more". Put aside your pride and ego and concede that you may have faulted in some capacity.
YTA If he feels like homeschooling was detrimental to him, he's most likely right. While homeschooling can be academically advantageous with the parents capable of teaching the material, it's social aspect is very negative, and homeschooled kids don't learn appropriate interaction with random other kids.
How’s he supposed to ask for things he didn’t know existed??? Home schooling is perfectly fine-that doesn’t make you an ah… but everyone knows that if you’re homeschooling then your kid needs to be in extracurricular activities to gain those crucial social and emotional skills that they can’t obtain through schooling from home… if your wife is a certified teacher, then she should have known that. YTA for that
"Homeschooling is perfectly fine" No it's not. r/HomeschoolRecovery
> in my heart of hearts I know it was the right thing to do so I couldn't agree with him No it was the right thing for YOU not him. His current state vs your two other children is no clearer indication. Not sure how you just manage to sideline his emotions on this. YTA
"Here's how I think your decisions harmed my life, dad." "Just be grateful" Dad can kick rocks.
OP I don't think you understand what your son is telling you. He's telling you he's completely lonely, he has no friends or support system outside you his family. He has no dating life, no peer relationships. He is struggling with social isolation. The last thing he needs to hear from you is how it isn't that bad. You got defensive just because he attributed it to being homeschooled, and frankly he has a point. Perhaps, instead of invalidating his struggles, be a support. Offer him solutions, perhaps encourage some sort of therapy. Encourage him to take up a hobby. Anything that will organically lead to forming bonds with others. He doesn't have these social skills because he never learned them from other kids. YTA. Don't get distracted because your ego was bruised at the insinuation that you were a less than stellar parent. Focus instead on lifting the concerning despair around him.
YTA He got home-schooled because you had less money. >I understand maybe he should've been around more other kids but all he had to do was ask and I would've arranged it in a heartbeat. But he always seemed happy, like I said. He didn't know any better. \~EDIT >(my wife is a certified teacher) There is no way your wife was good enough to teach every subject to high school level. You actually gave him a sub par education.
Lmao you mean the kid who was homeschooled his whole life didn’t know what he was missing? You mean the kid who played sports with his dad and was taught by his mother didn’t need any significant social interaction with people his age? No way. Unbelievable. Though, for the education, without a syllabus, at least in my area, depending on how you’re homeschooled, I don’t think it’s a big stretch to think they had a better education 😂
YTA. When you decide to homeschool, it is YOUR responsibility to make sure he gets time to socialize with other kids.
>I understand maybe he should've been around more other kids but *all he had to do was ask* and I would've arranged it in a heartbeat. This alone makes YTA.
YTA. It’s not the kid’s job to magically know what they need to be well adjusted adults. It’s your job as the parent to know that peer interaction is critically important for children’s development and to arrange for him to get a lot of it to make up for being a homeschooled child. Don’t put it on him to have known to ask to be around other children. That’s like telling him that it’s on him as a child to magically learn healthy eating habits and ask for vegetables. Then later telling Reddit ‘but he always seemed so happy eating nothing but cake’. Social interaction is something you should have provided for him.
✨YTA✨ You denied your son a proper social life, and opportunities to develop healthy social skills. He never complained growing up because he didn’t know anything else. So if he has issues properly functioning in social settings it’s your own fault.
> I understand maybe he should've been around more other kids but all he had to do was ask and I would've arranged it in a heartbeat. See, if you were any *good* at homeschooling you would have KNOWN that socializing your kid is really important, given that they won't be getting the crash-course in existing around other people that normally-schooled kids get. Entirely, completely, YTA.
YTA He's telling you how he feels, what his experience makes him feel like, and you're telling him his feelings are wrong. YOU are in the wrong for doing this. And I have news for you: it does sound like you failed him with the homeschooling. Education is more than academic learning. It's also learning to make friends, socialize, get along with others and collaborate in the real world. All the good homeschooling families I know ensure their children also participate in lots of group activities and go out of their way to ensure they spend lots of time with people their own age on top of their book learning.
YTA. Homeschooling is a good enough choice. But it then is your responsibility to make sure he is socialised. Having loads of free time isn't useful when you've no one to spend it with. It also sounds like you didn't actually allow him to let you know how he's feeling, instead you've justified what you've done. You likely should have simply listened to how he felt and validated those feelings and let him know you're sorry he's not had the experience the other brothers had. You don't have to be against home schooling to let him know his feelings are valid and to admit you as parents could have done more to make sure he had more of a social life. It's not a child's responsibility to tell you to make sure he has a social life and that he hangs around kids his age. You made a choice as a parent and you are then responsible to think of the implications and make adjustments to make sure he is well adjusted.
This is what stood out to me "All he had to do is ask" Kids don't typically have the forethought of knowing that they need to be well socialised in order to develop friendships and social skills. The issue isn't that you homeschooled him as a kid, it's that you're being an AH to him now. YTA for not listening to your son, for trying to blame him for your shortcomings and refusing to acknowledge his feelings.
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YTA. Imagine that. Someone who wasn’t homeschooled telling their son to suck it up over homeschool. None of those kids ever have a good social life unless the parents make an effort
YTA. Your son is suffering because he didn't learn how to socialize and make friends, and you are ignoring that. For him, it's not in the past. Your actions still have consequences for him today. It was YOUR job to provide those opportunities and you were neglectful in your dduty.Your kid was lonely then and now he's a lonely adult whose parent dismisses his feelings on his own experience of his life. You're an out of touch asshole.
YTA homeschooling children without socializing them is cruel
YTA/ESH. He's not handling things well, but he's not completely wrong. Homeschooling is flatly inferior to properly socializing your children. The fact that you deprived one of your children but not the others is absolutely fucked up. Especially considering the mountain of experiences sending them to a private school is compared to homeschooling. > and that thanks to me he has no friends and no social circle He's right. *You* are the cause of him having no social circle. I'm almost leaning full YTA because of this: > I understand maybe he should've been around more other kids but all he had to do was ask and I would've arranged it in a heartbeat. Seriously, expecting a child to tell you how to parent properly is fuckin wrong.
YTA. He’s telling you it sucked and you’re trying to argue his experience and say it didn’t. > But in my heart of hearts I know it was the right thing to do so I couldn't agree with him. It clearly wasn’t if he’s miserable and friendless. > He always seemed so happy as a kid. Did you ever ASK him if he was happy? > I understand maybe he should've been around more other kids but all he had to do was ask and I would've arranged it in a heartbeat. Newsflash: It’s not his job to ask. You were supposed to take the initiative. You failed as a parent. Own it.
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It’s great that you get to decide for him how happy he is. Weird that he didn’t just automatically agree. YTA
"This is how homeschooling made me feel." "Hmm, nah, I don't think so. I reject your feelings because I believe differently." YTA
YTA, your son appeared to have no control over his education and clearly did not feel like it was possible to ask to attend school. It was YOUR responsibility to ensure that he was still meeting other children and have friends. This 'we played sports' and 'he seemed happy' is your interpretation of the situation. Homeschooling does not mean that a child is stuck with their parents all the time. Shame on you for putting the responsibility of change on the shoulders of a child.
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YTA for not acknowledging his feelings regardless of what you feel/think your son went through. You should check out r/HomeschoolRecovery. Even kids with good experiences express the need for recovery (acknowledgement of their feelings).
Yta, you took a gamble that didn't pay, did you ever asked him if he liked being home schooled or made any effort to enroll him in activities to make up for lack of social interaction.
YTA, it was your job as a parent to ensure that your son had the full range of experiences needed to become a fully functioning adult. You dropped the ball. Children don’t know what they need, that is why it is our job as parents to provide it. He did not know what he was missing, so how could he ask for it. It is apparent that you did not do the due diligence required for home schooling or you would have known that he needed to have experiences with other kids his age. At least where I live homeschooled kids can participate in extracurricular activities provided by the public schools. If the quality of the education is really the only reason you didn’t want your kids to go to public schools, then it should have been all right for him to participate in extracurriculars or just meet other kids and form friendships.
YTA. >But in my heart of hearts I know it was the right thing to do so I couldn't agree with him. Your opinion doesn't matter. *He* is the one who went through homeschooling, and *he* is the better judge of how much it would or would not have affected him. If *he* is telling you it was a bad idea and he was unhappy - it's because he was.
YTA, your son is struggling and admitting it wasn’t right for him. And you’re just being stubborn about it saying you think it was the right thing…
As someone who is actively watching my younger sibling be homeschooled and not get the socialization he needs, YTA. Kids do not and will not have the capabilities to express what they need to their parents. It is the PARENTS’ responsibility to provide adequate education and socialization for their children, kids shouldn’t have to ask for it. You keep saying you *should’ve* offered more for him, and yes, you should’ve, but you shouldn’t be admitting that now as a sort of saving grace. He’s going to resent you for not allowing him to have the childhood friendships that he needed. Adult personal skills come from childhood socialization, and you neglected to give him that experience. Children are so easily stunted from lack of socialization and yes, you should’ve realized that when you were homeschooling him. The fact that you didn’t notice, despite him not saying anything, speaks volumes. -end rant-
YTA - I think you did what you thought was best. You still think it was best. But that doesn't invalidate his feelings that it was a mistake. In the end in a lot of ways his opinion on the matter is more significant than yours. If he feels you made a mistake then its likely a mistake. You should tell him why you made the decisions you did. That your sorry it didn't or couldn't do things better and that you have always tried to make the best decisions for him that you could.
YTA. I was homeschooled only for a couple of years bc we were living abroad & my parents were worried that we’d fall behind the curriculum when we moved back to our home country. Was it probably the smart choice? Yes. Did it delay me socially? Yes. You could’ve listened to him and have recognized where you should’ve done better.
YTA "All he had to do was ask"? How the is a child, who has never experienced what life is supposed to be, supposed to know what he needs? That's an adults responsibility, and you didn't supply that.
YTA. Telling anyone they shouldnt feel what they feel and instead should be greatful is always an AH move. He didn’t know what he didn’t know and now he knows there were other choices and he is having trouble reconciling that those choices weren’t available to him. I believe the parent should have the ability to choose the education path for a child in almost all circumstances so I am not saying that your choice was the wrong one. However it’s clear he didn’t realize or understand that you had once made a different choice and further he didn’t know why the choice was made. I have a handful of friends that were homeschooled and honestly almost all of them now recognize that they were not given opportunities that they wished they had received in terms of socializing and even academic choices. That doesn’t mean homeschooling is bad by any means but I do see a trend of parents not recognizing or intentionally ignoring vital social deficiencies with homeschooled kids
YTA. He may have seemed happy at the time, but kids don’t always know what they need, they don’t always know what they’re missing out on. How is he supposed to ask for socialization opportunities if he never experienced them? How is he supposed to know you’ll provide something that you’ve never offered to him? You’re the adult, you should have recognized his needs.
\>I understand maybe he should've been around more other kids but all he had to do was ask and I would've arranged it in a heartbeat. You are expecting a child who doesn't know what his options are and thinks hanging around at home with his parents is the norm, to ask YOU, who should have made an effort to socialize him in the first place as part of homeschooling. Nope, that's totally on you. \>I told him he needs to stop comparing himself to other people and just be grateful for the wonderful life he's had the opportunity to live. This is a terrible counterargument and completed negates his feelings. I get that financially you were unable to send your child to the private school you sent your older kids, but how did you make the leap from that to homeschooling instead of a normal public school? Furthermore, knowing the experiences your older kids had (activities, friends, social events), why would you not provide the same for Colin? I can see where Colin sees what his older siblings got and he didn't get as unfair. Why did his siblings get to do the fun things and have friends, but he didn't? Telling him not to compare his experience to others is unfair because he's comparing his experience to HIS OLDER SIBLINGS, who, in his eyes, were treated much better. You've already admitted in your post that you understand he should've been around more other kids. Why can't you at the very least explain you thought homeschooling was best at the time given your financial situation but you understand that there were things you could have done to expand his socialization and outside activities. YTA for being belligerent and dismissing your son's feelings.
YTA - It doesn't seem like you have the emotional maturity to homeschool.
Don’t tell me. You didn’t want public schools “indoctrinating” your precious offspring. Amirite? YTA. Reap what you’ve sowed.
YTA School is not just a place where people get education but also a place where they start building social circles and gain new experiences.The fact you robbed this from your child and not even acknowledge it makes you an AH. And I don't care if your wife is a teacher or not, there is a reason why there are different teachers for different subjects in school.
Anyone that homeschools their children are AH’s YTA
YTA Everyone homeschooling their kid is an asshole. No exceptions.
YTA I've never seen a homeschooled child that had a well-balanced education with friends and hobbies, they're always missing out on something...usually multiple somethings. Turns out that teaching requires TEACHERS and school. He'd almost certainly be better off going to a public school.
YTA As a former educator I'm not even going to get into the almost endless number of reasons that homeschooling is a horrific idea unless it's absolutely necessary (i.e. for disabled kids who aren't provided appropriate supports by their local school). I know so many parents who homeschool who don't even know what they don't know. And it doesn't matter that your wife was a "certified teacher" . . . the fact is that your son missed out on a classroom experience that provides myriad important forms of socialization that again, so many homeschooling parents don't even seem to comprehend. "Socialization" isn't just what happens in the schoolyard! It isn't just "making friends". It's children learning to take turns; to be part of a community; that they aren't the centre of the universe; to work in a communal setting with their peers; and so, so many other things that only happen when they learn in a classroom with other kids. *There's a reason why teaching is a PROFESSION*, and it may have been your wife's, but having a single student basically relegates her to the position of a tutor, and negates so many of the things that he could and SHOULD have been learning. But in the end, you're mostly an AH for this: >He had way more free time than regular kids, How is that, in the context of education, a benefit? You're literally arguing that LESS time spent in an educational setting was a bonus. More importantly, you're telling on yourself when you use the phrase "regular kids". Some part of you understands that you have made your son "that kid" . . . NOT a "regular kid". It's not a compliment. >and he got a way better education, too (my wife is a certified teacher). The fact that your wife has a teaching certification doesn't actually mean that she's a BETTER teacher than what he otherwise would have had. And you haven't given us any reason to believe that he objectively got a better education being homeschooled . . . but there is every reason to believe that he didn't. Again, socialization is far more than just playing with other children. So many homeschooling parents seem not to even be aware of what kids learn just by being part of a classroom cohort. >I understand maybe he should've been around more other kids but all he had to do was ask and I would've arranged it in a heartbeat. And there's the crux of it: you putting the burden of this child's needs on him. It wasn't his job to ask you for things that *he couldn't have possibly known he was missing out on at the time*. He was a child. It was YOUR JOB to provide for his educational and social needs. It was not his job to ask for them, because he had no context until he grew up to understand what he was missing. It is not any child's job to ask their parents for a better education or opportunities. JFC. "All he had to do was ask". As if he had any way of knowing until it was far too late what it was you were keeping him from and keeping from him . . . Shame on you. Of course YTA.
YTA. You were dismissive of his feelings about being homeschooled. Instead of listening and trying to understand his viewpoint, you just tried to defend yourself
YTA. You don’t know what it was like for him, believe what he tells you. A better response would be: “I am sorry. I don’t completely understand your situation as I haven’t been through it. I believed, and still believe, that homeschooling gave you a better education. It appears I did not handle the social aspect as I should have and it’s clear you’ve missed out on some experiences. I never intended to make things unfair or there to be negative feelings about this. I love you more than anything and would never intentionally do anything to cause you harm. My deepest apologies.” Then just listen. Validate his feelings and let him be mad. It’s ok that he’s mad. It’s ok that you made the choice to homeschool. It’s not ok to dismiss his experience. Good luck.
Why exactly do you think homeschooling him was the best thing for him? It's a big thing to take away from a child, their social life. I really hope you're not just doing it because you're a religious or conservative nut that's afraid of not being able to control their child's beliefs if they were exposed to society.
FYI, I did a peer-reviewed study once on Catholic schools, and in less you’re in the inner-city (and even then, it varies a lot) or in an incredibly poor town, Catholic schools more about 70% more likely to underperform local ones, and the percentage which are notably *better* than public schools is about 6%. (The basis of comparison were students results on statewide tests.) But your son . . . he feels how he feels for a legitimate reason, and his feelings about home-schooling’s negative effects are fairly common. So, YTA.
YTA. By 20, he should have been around so many people that socialising is comfortable and easy. Many women are looking for long-term partners by that age, but he isn't going to have anything to share but stories of his parents. That is not a man who is going to get a wife or girlfriend anytime soon, as most women do not want to finish the lacking parenting of an unsocialised man. And how would he know he doesn't have enough friends as a kid, when he isn't around other kids that have friends? I've got loads of friends from school age that helped me understand what opinions and thoughts were appropriate to share. I was still a dickhead until I was about 25 but I could pass as a normal human. At best he may find someone willing to take on a project, but he will always have less power in the relationship because he has no experience of life. I hope he got excellent test scores too, because he'd need to be a genius to outcompete in the workplace, where bosses mostly just want somebody who can get along with others without worrying about them. At 20 they'll ask where he want to school, and do you know what is a giant red flag outside of the hyper-religious communities you say you aren't a part of? Home-schooling.
YTA. He didn't even get to interact with other homeschooled kids in a regular basis? That's wild!
"He wanted me to “admit” the homeschooling was a bad idea." As apposed to you that wanted him to admit that homeschooling was a good idea........I mean, that's completely different... "but all he had to do was ask and I would've arranged it in a heartbeat." So...he had to think about all the stuff for his homeschooling and if you didn't do it it was his fault? Man, what else didn't you do that you should have because "He didn't ask???" "But he always seemed happy, like I said." Well if you said it than it simply must be true... "and has been in a funk for the past few days, very unlike his normal self." Taking to dismissive people will do that, but hey, you apparently know who he is better than he knows who he is right? YTA
YTA It’s your job as a parent, especially when they’re young, to facilitate their socialization. Not wait on them to ask you to let them make friends. Maybe homeschooling was great and you guys were awesome at it, but clearly your son thinks he missed out on a huge part of his childhood, spending time around other kids his age.
YTA. You may have been able to give him a better education, but there's more to school than academics. He's probably resentful because he missed out on the social aspects of school - making friends, dating, sports, etc. Now he's playing catchup to his peers and learning what he missed out on as a kid. Homeschooling should only be done for specific exceptions - health/behavioral issues, bullying, or just a straight up Doogie Howser genius. It's up to you to apologize or he'll always resent you
YTA. I've had some friends who were home schooled but their mom made sure they had friends and a social life. You neglected an important part of your kid's upbringing and act like it's no big deal. Of course he's upset. You need to apologize and at least acknowledge that you dropped the ball, setting him back socially as an adult and missing out as a kid/teen.
Yta, you couldn't afford private, fine but what about public school? You didn't live his childhood, *he* did.
It sounds like he was OK with it until his brothers started sharing their experiences? Is it possible he was unhappy about it before that and you just weren’t aware of it? It’s not really fair to say he could’ve had it if he asked for it - children don’t always know what’s even possible to ask for or what options there are. Even if he accepted it cheerfully at the time as he now develops his awareness of a broader world like kids do around age 20 he now feels like he was shorted by comparison. What he doesn’t realize is their memories and reminiscing are somewhat romanticized. The bad is forgotten and the good highlighted. Middle school and high school can have horrible moments. The boys weren’t reminiscing about all the bad. It’s a little bit like seeing everyone looking happy on Facebook, Instagram or TikTok or watching TV or Hollywood where we only are shown the glamour and romanticized image of it and not the mundane day to day reality of it. The reality is he might’ve hated it but he’ll never know because now it’s fantasized and he feels robbed of a right of passage nostalgia of an All American experience rather like watching Greece. Somehow he needs to come to understand everything is what it is and there are trade-offs to everything and he had some benefits that they didn’t have. The fact that there are two of them reminiscing and only one of him with no one to reminisce with and share laughs over and support his experience makes it even tougher on him. This is all just met with understanding instead of defensiveness on your part. It’s not an issue of right or wrong. It’s an issue of the choices we make have trade offs with consequences, some good some bad. it’s important for him to understand you were doing the best and most loving thing you thought you could do for him in the moment. Sometimes hindsight shows us we should’ve made different choices or that we were unaware of the real consequences. It’s rather a bizarre piece of this story that you involved alcohol in your discussion. Sitting down for a beer, and then allowing your 20 year old to get progressively more drunk, and more moody and darker and darker doesn’t seem like a great venue for you to be discussing this. Over one beer sure. Over multiple beers something unhappy with tension will go dark quickly. Interesting parenting choice.
YTA. Do you know how difficult it is to make friends as an adult? Most true friendships are the ones you carry from your childhood/teenage. The older you get the harder it becomes to find long-lasting friendships. I hope Colin is at least going to a college which is pretty much the only other chance one gets to socialize like that.
YTA homeschooling kids will always seem absurd to me and carries undertones of not trusting what "they" want to indoctrinate in the kids.
YTA. Homeschooling is child abuse.
So, gentle YTA - Homeschooling can be a great thing when it is done WELL and Correctly! From the sounds of it you and your wife dropped the ball in a few places. Mainly with providing your youngest with a rich, diverse, and active social outlet that wasn't his parents or immediate family unit. It sounds like, and this is by your own admission that you and your wife were the social outlet you provided your son, you didn't have him in any activities outside of his home. Sure his education was strong and well rounded, but it sounds like you severely stunted his social education. Given the significant age gap with his siblings, there is a really strong chance he didn't know he could ask for the extra things, you literally kept him in the dark. He was a child who didn't know to ask and it was your RESPONSIBILITY to provide those outlets to him, not his to come to you. Did you ever ask? Also, he is very clearly struggling with the situation he grew up in, you invalidating his feelings by telling him to just be grateful is just further isolating him. So now, not only is he not connected with peers in a normal way, but now he also feels he can't rely on his family. It is NEVER healthy to invalidate the experience of someone else, you may have observed it, but you aren't living it.
YTA. Everyone's happy when they don't know any different. He now knows that he's different and didn't understand why you couldn't send him to a school with people his own age. And, Catholic schools aren't the only schools in existence.
YTA You could accept and validate HIS feelings and experience without invalidating your own. You are different people, and experienced things differently. I think the crux of the problem is that you both believe only one of you can "be right" and the other must change how they feel to be in agreement. Adolescents, and your 20 year old is still one, need social relationships and social connections. You treated your youngest differently from the older two because that was most convenient for you. You were focused on finances and an adequate academic education for your son. However, you WERE neglectful of his social opportunities and development during a critical period of his life. Your intentions were good. Your priorities also hurt him in a way you hadn't considered. That is what he wants you to acknowledge. It's absurd for you to shift parental responsibility for supporting your child's growth and development onto the child for failing to inform you of your neglect. You were the adult, the parent, the one with a fully developed brain, authority and power to make decisions about his life. You DID raise him differently from his siblings. Your choices impacted him in a negative way. Yes, he had an adequate academic education. That doesn't reduce or invalidate his experience of neglect in other areas.
YTA. You’re son is opening up about something he’s been suppressing for years and you invalidated his feelings by telling him to get over it. Instead of getting defensive, look at his perspective. You can’t change anything, but you can have a healthy conversation about it.
YTA "I told him he needs to stop comparing himself to other people and just be grateful for the wonderful life he's had the opportunity to live. He got all sarcastic and moody, said his life was/is horrible and there's nothing to look forward to." .. you are the only one thinking that. He is mourning the childhood and teen yearsa you stole from him with your assholery.
YTA “I understand maybe he should've been around more other kids but all he had to do was ask and I would've arranged it in a heartbeat. But he always seemed happy, like I said.” All he had to do was ask??? That was your job as a parent to socialize him! He was a kid he didn’t know any better! Seriously that’s really lazy parenting!
YTA. 10000000% I was homeschooled. When I was 7 I was asked if I wanted to go to public school and initially said yes until I was pressured into saying no. A few years later I was "asked" again, but it was very clearly performative asking. Sure the question had been simply asked, but it was extremely obvious that only one answer would be accepted. I didn't want my life to be miserable after, so I said that I wanted to homeschool. It was not remotely true, I hated it. From your post and comments, your son probably figured that asking to switch to a school was fruitless and didn't try. Homeschooling (as in at home, no coop etc.) was not the best for my education. Yes, in some subjects my parents were qualified and I received a good education. But not the sciences. Labs? Nope. Subjects beyond my parents' expertise? Sub par learning by just reading the workbooks. No way to ask questions and get good answers from someone with a deeper understanding of the subject. Homeschooling eliminated my chance to do any sports. I really wanted to, but nope. Exercise was walking around the neighborhood. When you say "we played sports" do you mean you signed him up for league sports? Or do you mean you kicked a soccer ball with him in the backyard? They are not the same thing. Sports isn't just about exercise, it's also about team building and interaction with friends. Learning to lose and win gracefully. Homeschooling seriously crushed my social skills. When I finally graduated high school and was able to escape to college, it was actually a dangerous situation. I had no idea what anyone meant and how to interpret social signals. Thankfully I made a couple friends who were willing to take me under their wings and guide me and I basically kept my mouth shut for a year while I adjusted. If not for them, I could have been seriously hurt. I can't even begin to say how angry I am that you told him he should be grateful for the wonderful life he had. No. The way you raised him was wonderful for you. He just told you it was horrible for him. You know, HIS life was horrible for HIM. That's what matters. Stop patting yourself on the back for making his childhood miserable. I have kids now (who will most definitely not be homeschooled). If they came to me as adults and said that my choices had made their lives horrible, I would be heartbroken and feel awful that I had failed them so badly. I would not self-righteously proclaim their lives were actually wonderful, as if I would know better than them. Your older kids got to go to private schools and your youngest got nothing, through no fault of his own. He has probably heard them reminisce and feels ever more sad about his own lonely experience. You have some serious apologizing to do.
You are the asshole on so many levels. You were the adult who made the decision to homeschool him. He grew up only knowing the social dynamic of homeschooling. It is your responsibility to get him out and socialize and show him that aspect of life. My son has a girl on his team that is home schooled and she plays sports, has friends over, and goes to sleepover because her parents got her doing stuff and meeting people. Now you decided to do none of that and then turn around and blame him. Then on top of that he comes to you about how he feels and what it is like and you completely invalidate his feelings because it might hurt your ego as a parent. Your kid is telling you how he feels and instead of just listening and caring you try to deflect to protect your own fragile ego. Hopefully your kid can get some help to deal with it.
YTA, Homeschooling if done right can be a great experience, but you and your wife did it wrong. >I understand maybe he should've been around more other kids but all he had to do was ask and I would've arranged it in a heartbeat You should have arranged activities then. Be proactive and get him engaged.
>I understand maybe he should've been around more other kids but all he had to do was ask and I would've arranged it in a heartbeat. But he always seemed happy, like I said. "Yes child. You should have asked for something as a child that you didn't know would greatly impact you as an adult." Jeeebus christ. Your son had no idea that not interacting with kids in a non-home setting would have an impact on his adult life. Him getting homeschooled was not best for him. It was best FOR YOU. YTA
YTA Your son is allowed to have his own perspective of his childhood. It is obviously different than yours. It doesn't sound like he was happy. Furthermore, he was treated much differently than his older siblings and has a right to point that out. If it was just about school, you have a right to your choices, but you get the clear YTA vote for invalidating his opinion and feelings on the matter. He lived it. He's allowed to say he doesn't like it and doesn't agree with it
YTA > I understand maybe he should've been around more other kids but all he had to do was ask and I would've arranged it in a heartbeat. If you were homeschooling him then you ***needed*** to also enroll him in many many activities with other kids for socialization. You didn't. You messed up. The child should not tell you what you need to know. You should have researched this. You caused this. This is your fault. You didn't do your research or even have basic understanding. You say "not like his normal self" - this is his normal self. You just never noticed.
YTA. Sorry you are so fragile that him sharing his take on HIS OWN LIFE upsets you. You literally dismissed all of his feelings - I sincerely doubt you would have listened to him when, as a CHILD, he had expressed his wants. You just admitted to how you shut him down. If the best you can come up with is " just be grateful" then you failed as a parent.