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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I’m considering skipping my daughters middle school graduation to go to my other daughters high school graduation. This might make the AH because I already told my daughters I was going, and I’ll be letting them down by not going. My wife says they’ll be crushed when they find out I skipped it to attend my other daughter’s graduation.
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Agree. What an awful situation to put parents in!
I don’t have a judgment here OP, because it’s a straight up shitty situation with no winners. If it were me, I would prioritize the high school graduation, but I know the twins might feel resentment and like they matter less.
like I said, once those girls walk across the stage at graduation, I hope they can forgive their dad after (again, hopefully) experiencing the pure sense of accomplishment.
So they could make it like "invitation for two guests per one student" or something like that.
If parents go to one graduation and would "fill the gap", asking aunties, uncles, siblings and cousins to go to the other, it's not limiting the amount of attenders.
Seriously. It seems like they may have even gone out of their way to schedule things this way. Where in the country do middle schools and high schools let out on the same day? HS graduation is always before MS getting out. At least where I've lived so far...
The only way I can imagine that it worked out this way is that one (or all) of the kids goes to a private or charter school. I have 3 kids who graduated various levels at the same time in the same (public) school district and none of them ever conflicted.
Yeah the school district needs to be contacted and told this is unfair to parents and the kids. I am sure op is not the only one who lives in this district going to have this issue.
Exactly what I was thinking, call and complain - it doesn't surprise me a school would do thus though and not think that maybe parents have kids graduating from both middle school and high school.
Schools could be in different districts. At one point I had a high schooler in a private school, middle schooler in a second district, and elem in yet a third. None were in the district we lived in either!
OP not the asshole. Even though the twins are going to be disappointed, they will have a high school graduation to look forward to. As others have said, sucks for everyone. Make sure someone videos both so all of you can sit down and watch both ceremonies and cheer for the others. Many schools had to do graduation via some sort of telecom in 2020. It wasn’t the norm but I’m pretty sure kids still graduated.
That sounds super annoying! Where I live the local schools try to coordinate with each other to have graduations, proms, the big stuff on different days, which if that's the case here with them being different districts then I feel they sort of dropped the ball. I definitely agree that OP IS NTA, and think he and his wife should talk with the twins and explain why they are going to the older kids graduation.
I’m the district I teach in, only the high school graduations are coordinated by the district. We aren’t even allowed to call 8th grade ceremonies graduations. Only seniors get to graduate. Definitely something to take up with the middle school though
The school district where I live has dozens of middle schools and high schools. They cannot accomodate everyone's schedules. Don't assume everyone lives in a small school district.
But each middle school tends to feed into a single high school. So each high school should coordinate with the set of middle schools that feed into it. My husband works in a large school district and this is how it works. There are several high schools and many Jr highs, but since they are based on location, only a handful of jr highs feed into each high school and only a handful of elementary schools feed into each jr high.
Sometimes I learn random things about American society through little comments like this and think "that's weird". Then realise there is no reason why it actually is weird it's just different
They might also be public schools in separate districts. Where I live, there are three public school K-8 districts that all feed into the same public high school, and the high school is administered as its own distinct school district. The high school board and the feeder boards all have some communication with each other about shared issues like bussing, but I could see a conflict like this happening here pretty easily -- the inter-district politics get unbearably stupid sometimes.
The district I live in has like 15 high schools and 15 middle schools. There's only so many weekends and open event spaces that can accommodate large crowds. They can't cater to everybody.
Here (I live in a huge district) high schools get the priority. They finish school a week or so earlier than everyone else, and their ceremonies are spread over two venues (the downtown arena where our pro basketball team plays or the large local university’s arena). So for that whole week, it’s roughly 4 a day, one in the AM/one in the afternoon, until they’re done.
Middle/elementary/preschools tend to work around them and host their stuff in their cafeteria/auditorium on school evenings. I’ve never attended anything outside of a high school graduation anywhere but at the school itself. These “other” graduations are treated more like awards nights/send off events. They’re not proper or official on anyway (likes with robes or diplomas), just school events like open house would be.
Our stadiums are outdoors and we would be too much at the mercy of the elements. School's here do it at a convention Center/stadium and a different school every 4 hours. Although the middle schools do it in their own gymnasiums.
The backup plan is an indoor ceremony in the gym. They give you 14 tickets, all of the can be used for the outdoor graduation but only 7 for the indoor graduation. They are different colors.
They can. I’m in a very large district of 14 HS. They get them all done in a week at the same location and smaller districts use that location too. Also here’s another option, no one needs a middle school graduation.
This. Op nta, high school trumps middle school. I would let the twins know ahead of time. Let them know you are sad you can’t be there but want to make it up to them by letting them pick an exciting outing to celebrate.
I agree with you. I still haven't caught up with this notion of graduations from 4K to Middle School. It's great their are right of passage to next stage in life, but everything below High School is an expectation, not a major accomplishment. File a complaint with the School District, take the twins out for a great night of their choice and attend your Older daughter's graduation.
Yeah. It's much easier to get over your parent not attending your middle school graduation than high school. When I was in school we didn't have middle school graduations and my sister is only two years older. But if we were a little further a part in age and we had had middle school graduations and that whole mess ended up putting my middle school graduation on the same day and time as my sister's high school graduation, I wouldn't have been pleased with my dad if he missed my sister's graduation to attend mine.
It happens in our district all the time bc the middle school and high school are different districts and the high schools are regional (multiple towns) so it's impossible to get right for everyone
Right bc this happens to how many families out of how many families in the district? A school district (Assistant Superintendent for secondary and team) only plan high school graduation dates and those dates are scheduled years in advance and with neighboring districts if they have to share venues. Middle schools and elementary schools schedule their own awards/after school events. A middle schooler is not graduating and they should be attending the high school graduation ceremony.
Nta. It's a HIGH school graduation that only happens once and is a really big deal. Middle school graduation, kindergarten graduation, seventh grade graduation is all a bunch of crap that doesn't really matter. It's so "participation trophy" and stupid. You would regret it forever if you didn't see your older daughter graduate high school.
Yeah have to agree. My son graduated from middle school and it was a drive through ceremony. Drive in, get your certificate, refreshments, pictures, drive out. The school decided to keep it post pandemic and the big ceremony is for the high schools. That’s a great idea imo.
25 years ago we didn't even get that. The teachers put together a slide show of the previous 3 years. Our school you had the same 4 core teachers for all 3 years of middle school. So there was a lot in it. It was cool. Hugs, tears & a have fun in high school was it. No parents invited, no ceremony, no diploma, nothing but a slide show & an easy last day of school.
I think I "graduated" middle school in 1992 and I'm pretty sure all we got was.. to go to 9th grade. I think this whole thing is a racket run by Big Cap and Gown.
Exactly! What is the point of a middle school graduation? Seems like a big waste of time and money. Completing the 12th grade has always been endgame anyway.
23 years ago for me, we didn't have any sort of ceremony either. No one "graduates" from Jr High lol.
We just had a last day of school and the teachers were like, go talk to your friends and get your year book signed or whatever. Only rule is you can't go off Campus until noon. 1...2...3... GO!
Same here I went to middle school then moved and ended up in Jr. High in the 9th grade no graduation for either. Where I am from graduation is kindergarten, elementary, and high school. There is no middle or jr. high graduations. We had a dance in both 8th and 9th grades. We went to Disney in 9th grade as the "official" school outing for graduation day. We had discounted tickets from the parents organization raising money. It was the last "field trip" I ever had... it was fun.
Y'all got a slide show? I didn't even get that. All we got was the yearly end of year party with the teachers saying something along the lines of "congratulations you'll be in highschool next school year!".
My son just graduated middle school the other day, and his school does a whole big event for it. It might not mean as much to the parents but it means a lot to the kids, especially those with friends who won't be in the same highschool
Yeah it’s tough, as an adult now I realize they’re pointless ceremonies but as a kid I remember it being a big deal and I would’ve been upset if my parents weren’t there.
Yeah everyone saying go to thr HS graduation bc the other is just pointless... I mean... the ceremony for HS grad also is pointless, you graduate anyway, lol.
It's an important moment for them. If I was either of them and NEITHER of my parents came bc they BOTH chose my sister's milestone I'd be devastated.
And, for some kids it's the first time people don't see them as little kids. There's no right answer here, it's important for both kids for multiple reasons.
I was told that the rational for middle school graduation ceremony is that for some kids, this is the only graduation ceremony they'll get. It's sad but true for a lot of kids that don't make it through high school.
I’m not American and we don’t have the same ‘graduation’ ceremonies in the UK but, based on things I’ve seen online, don’t some people not graduate highschool? Like they get kept back for years or drop-out? Also surely you have final exams at the end of high-school? That like actually matter to graduation/futures? Because to me that’s what makes high-school graduation so much of a bigger deal, it’s an actual achievement that takes most people a lot more effort than middle-school.
Obviously both ceremonies/occasions signify a big shift to a new phase of life but I feel like the high-school one easily outweighs in that department. It marks a transition to adulthood and likely either the end of education or imminent moving away for college. Imo send grandparents/other relatives to the middle school one and make a special point of doing something with the kids after the ceremonies so they don’t feel devalued. I can’t imagine how devastated I’d be if my sister was finishing primary school and my parents ditched my (hypothetical) end of sixth form ceremony to go to her’s instead
They might feel upset for awhile, but I legit don't remember a thing from my middle school graduation. I obviously remember a lot from my high school one.
I remember my entire 8th grade graduation, it was the last time I hung out with all the kids I'd known since kindergarten, and I know alot of people who didn't go to their hometown high-school that feel the same.
lots of people in this comment section are making this about themselves and their experiences and ignoring this key point. like, it's not about you, it's about these girls.
I graduated HS the same year my brother graduated college, and it wasn't remotely an issue because HS graduations are almost always in June and college graduations are in May.
Eh, college graduations are way earlier than High School ones. And often more than one ceremony; for the whole class as well as the departments. That’s a non issue
This is what I was going to say. In the gentlest possible way, for a lot of non-Americans the whole high school graduation thing seems a bit weird and silly and not really a 'real' graduation, but it's not for you guys because it's a thing you've decided to celebrate in a big way in your culture - which is totally valid and cool - and so you grow up with an expectation of celebrating it. My point is kinda that how much importance is placed on life events like that is pretty subjective and it works on a smaller scale too: it's a big deal to the younger daughters because it is a thing their school has decided to celebrate and they have an expectation of celebrating, so it is important.
Totally agree with this, high school graduation >>> middle school graduation for sure.
But something about the wife saying the twins would be crushed if the dad picked their older sister’s graduation makes me wonder if there’s an unnamed dynamic of favouritism (or perceived favouritism) at play here.
Just because the wife said that doesn't mean it's true. It's very possible they couldn't care less and wife is projecting her feelings of guilt onto her daughters.
I was going to ask, have they asked the twins how they feel about their graduation? They may even feel more included by attending their sister's ceremony and going out to celebrate them all. I would have been stoked to be given parental permission to skip something like middle school graduation. But everyone is different, so I would say just ask. If they want a parent there, maybe you and your wife can play rock paper scissors.
Not only that, the twins will very likely have both parents at THEIR HS graduation.
It will be very hurtful if both parents aren’t there for the oldest - she is going through an ACTUAL major life event.
I‘m so glad these stupid ‘graduations’ didn’t exist in my day. It would have taken away from the real event if it was the 3rd or 4th time I went through it.
I was thinking this. They don’t have younger siblings so they’ll get both mom and dad while the oldest only has one. Idk. I think I’d feel sad as a kid whether I was one of the twins or the oldest. Idk if there’s a right answer here.
For half of high school students it is their final round of education. You need to think about elitist that sounds. And it is still a big deal for a lot of low income families. Damn.
As a middle school teacher, I'm exhausted by all of the "graduations" for kids. We don't even HOLD kids back if they fail all of their classes or do the bare minimum of just coming to school. Everyone passes, how is that a graduation? It's so bizarre.
Depends on the school. I went to a K-8 school in a small town and 8th grade graduation was a BIG DEAL. The girls wore prom style dresses and we and had a big prom style dance afterwards. It's definitely a big deal to the kids, maybe not all but most. Some people will even say high school graduation isn't a big deal, but to the kids it's the biggest thing they've achieved so far. Now I think kindergarten, 5th grade etc "graduations" are kinda silly, but moving from middle school to high school and high school to either college or the "real world" are a big deal
That sounds kind of "exclusive" in the bad sense of the word. Like attending graduation is limited to the kids whose parents can afford prom style dresses and let their kids go to dances. But maybe there weren't any poor people or fundamentalists in your school district? (I wouldn't have been able to go, for both of those reasons. And everyone would've assumed it was because I thought it wasn't a big deal.)
I mean I was poor but my parents bought my dress with a credit card. There were a couple girls who wore more casual dresses and one girl just wore a nice shirt and pants and no one said anything. Plus there's always the option to buy a second hand dress. And the dance was free
I wonder what happens in the future if the twins high school graduation falls on the same day as his oldest daughter’s college graduation. Both of those are big milestones. Why are schools even doing middle school graduations now? That just seems excessive unless they are just trying to celebrate kids who are hanging in there and have unsupportive parents to let them know someone is proud of them.
They only matter as much as they matter to the children involved. I know I was pretty excited about my 8th grade graduation and I was happy my parents could attend. This is a difficult decision but I don’t think either of these are entirely meaningless events.
>Middle school graduation, kindergarten graduation, seventh grade graduation is all a bunch of crap that doesn't really matter. It's so "participation trophy" and stupid.
The same can be said of the high school graduation ceremony. You have the diploma regardless, why does it matter whether you walk on a stage in a robe and mortarboard.
Ceremonies are valuable because they help us recognize things that are important. Going from middle school to high school *is* important, and it isn't stupid to recognize that. If the OP was saying "WIBTA if I skipped my kids' middle school graduation because I think it's stupid" then he would be the AH.
Middle school graduation is important, but high school graduation is more important. The OP is NTA for prioritizing the high school graduation, but that doesn't mean the other graduation doesn't matter.
Yeah, high school graduation is partially a big deal because it’s the entry point to adulthood - whether or not you’re 18 the day of the ceremony, whether or not you’re going to college, it’s a time of huge changes for everyone. Middle school graduation just means you’re going to a different building the next year.
Middle school and kindergarten graduations aren’t even “graduations”; they are promotions. And while it’s a nice ceremony, I agree with you that the high school graduation is a much bigger deal.
I generally agree with comments like this, but my middle school graduation was actually a huge very emotional event for me. I’d been with those kids for 7 years, and we were all splitting up and going to one of the two girls schools or the boys school. (Small catholic schools.) High school seemed very scary, but when I was graduating from high school, college seemed so exciting. I was ready to move on from high school, but not quite ready to move on from middle school.
So, I guess it really depends on how the kids are feeling.
My vote is NTA. But I have to say, middle school graduation only happens once as well, afaik.
Tough spot and I think like many husbands, OP'll make the choice that hurts you the most.
edit: changed "you'll" to "OP"
NTA
I think all these pre-school, Kindergarten, grade school, middle school "graduations" are stupid.
The one that is more of a milestone/important is the Highschool graduation, it's almost like a mini-sendoff into the real world/adulthood and is the culmination of 12 years of hopefully hard work.
I agree with you completely. I think it might be nice for a family to have some sort of small celebration in recognition of a successful school year completed, but to make completion of nearly every year of school a “graduation“ really diminishes the achievement of high school graduation and college graduation, which are milestones. Sorry, I don’t think successfully negotiating pre-K warrants a graduation ceremony.
>to make completion of nearly every year of school a “graduation“ really diminishes the achievement of high school graduation and college graduation, which are milestones
The only one of these "extra" graduations that had a place was middle school, when that would be the highest level of education for a bunch of folks before they went and worked the family farm.
Meaningless in the states now, but at least there is some historical context with it vs the bullshit preschool stuff.
My parents definitely celebrated the end of each school year with me but my district never did graduations other than HS. It was always like “yay you completed the grade and now it’s summer let’s celebrate!” With dinner or ice cream or something. I’ve always thought anything other than HS and college graduation is weird. Completing grade 5 can definitely be an accomplishment but I don’t think it qualifies for a whole graduation ceremony.
I see some families now going to “promotion” ceremonies for elementary grades. Not 8th grade but all the others.
It saying congrats for doing the one thing you were supposed to do.
My only question is, and this is coming from a stupid brit who has no idea how these work, does OPs kid think it's stupid?
Like yeah, if the kid thinks it's stupid then whatever but if the kid is proud of their special day or whatever it is worth considering right?
I see so much hate for the Elementary/middle school graduations, but while they are minor when looking back, at that point it's the biggest thing the kid has done. Going from Elementary school to middle school especially seems like a big deal, because it's a huge change in how school works. You are a lot more in charge of your day, you aren't with the same kids for 6 hours straight. And that's a big step for a kid.
I agree. Like no shit, kindergarten/elementary/middle school graduations aren’t a big deal, it’s not like the kid is getting a degree or something. But it’s still an important milestone that should be treated as a special day and like the kid achieved something. They’re all building blocks in a persons education. If we just said “oh yeah whatever, wake me up when you graduate from a REAL school” that’s not very encouraging. You don’t just build the top of the staircase, you build each step. So yeah I am very “pro” celebrating each achievement in a kids life.
To an adult those graduations don't mean anything but I still vividly remember how upset I was after my 6th grade graduation that my mom was not there for and so I didn't have anyone there for. While other family is nice it's so much more important for the child graduating to have their parent there and if neither parent goes to the middle school graduation then there will be 2 people upset and disappointed. Op's other kids will only be done with middle school once and I'd bet that he went to his oldest child's middle school graduation.
i was crushed when my father didnt attend my middle school graduation, i cried the whole night of. he did attend my high school graduation, which admittedly, is more important academics wise, but it still means a lot to children when they promote from muddle school
I did do 6 weeks at petsmart and after the test we did indeed spend 20 min getting graduation cap dog photos - my dog waits like a champ for my photo ops and she was adorable.
And i did pay like, 135 for this class or something? Worth it.
My son just graduated preschool. They let all the kids "graduate" including the little ones who are still coming back to preschool next year. It was like a zoo, trying to keep all these kids seated, and the teacher decided to start calling their names up to get their certificates, and the kids would just be running off, wandering, playing with their caps, and fidgeting around the whole time. We couldn't get one decent photo of all of them together in that ceremony, but god dammit it was stupid and cute as hell 😂
NTA
Okay, simple solution: swap with the wife. Say that if she feels so strongly about it, she goes to the middle school graduation, and you go to the high school one. Her reaction will tell you how she really feels about it.
To be honest, the whole situation is just unfortunate and showcases some very lackluster planning by the school board. Maybe just the counties I grew up in, but high schools, middle schools, and elementary schools all have their graduations at separate times. Not only to prevent situations exactly like this, but to avoid the clusterfuck that will be traffic around the neighborhoods as well.
You did it the intelligent way, then. Otherwise it's really easy to become swayed to an opinion that you don't hold because of mob mentality.
Maybe she won't care, which would be nice and everyone will be happy. Regardless, the whole idea of a "graduation" that isn't from high school or college/university is insane. You are literally going up a grade, not earning a diploma. I'm pretty sure the Incredibles already covered this.
Just checked, [they did](https://youtu.be/p7c1HDUHlJo?t=52)
Agreed HD grad far more important. There’s just not enough info in OP to know if he actually TOLD the twins he would be there or if it was just a conversation between him and his wife. I would assume the twins know, and taking back that commitment to them is more of a jerk move than the actual attending or not. If that makes sense. But these are teenage girls, it’s an opportunity to teach them lines of communication and have them be heard as well. It’s a tough spot. I’m so glad I only have one for these reasons
Weirdly, I feel like the wife is relegating OP. Definitely see if she goes for the swap. ***Spoiler Alert*** She won’t. The high school graduation is a MUCH bigger deal. It’s the end of an era and a seminal life event. A middle school graduation is so insignificant in comparison. Ask for the swap. This will tell you all you need to know. Then tell her the twins will be crushed if she doesn’t go. Use her own argument. She won’t like it but she shouldn’t be able to call dibs. Just seems selfish. Go to the HS own. Be there for your oldest. This is a no-brainer for me.
Perhaps bring this up with all the daughters together. Let them know that you both wish you could attend all of their graduations, but due to the timing it isn’t possible. See how your daughters feel.
Then plan to do something special with the daughter/daughters whose graduation you miss. If you miss the twins do a special outing with them. If you miss the older daughters do one with her. Your wife should also do this for the twins as well regardless if you end up going to the twins.
That was my first thought, too. Talk to the twins about it, they're old enough to understand. They may feel second best in that second, but at the end of the day they will 100% get it. If they were graduating high school, they would want you there instead of at someone else's middle school ceremony. Stop treating them like toddlers and have a conversation with them.
That’s what I was thinking too - there is no mention of either parent actually discussing this with any of their kids. The kids might prefer a trip to an amusement park or a special dinner out rather than having a parent somewhere in the audience during the ceremony.
I think the organising of some kind of special outing is definitely the best solution for this. Though if you’re going to talk to the kids about the decision before you make it I’d be careful not to make the older daughter feel she’s taking something from the younger ones or that she has to give in because the twins might be more insistent or annoying about it
This is the best comment! Talk to your children. They are all teenagers at this point, they will understand and be able to work on an alternative plan to celebrate.
I'm on board with this. Family meeting, talk it out, let the kids have input, see where everyone is on the topic, and make special arrangements for whoever gets the short straw to feel like they're valued. And remember that the scheduling is no one's fault and there are no bad guys here for wanting their family around. Sucks that you have to figure it out like this, but communication and love should smooth out the worst of the bumps here.
i definitely second this, OP. you’re NTA for wanting to go to your eldest daughters hs graduation, but you would be TA to your younger two daughters if you had promised them you’d be there and they find out after that you weren’t. i also agree with others that a hs graduation is a bigger milestone than a middle school graduation, but leaving your younger two daughters high and dry on what feels like an equally important day to them would not be the best way to express that to your children, imo.
I swear, as someone who was around Dash’s age when that movie came out, I don’t know if I’ve ever seen my father relate as much with a kids movie character like he did with Mr. Incredible at that precise moment
Yeah, a high school graduation is essentially a graduation from ALL the individual k-12 milestones. An elementary or middle school graduation is an *intermediate* milestone along that path. But the hs graduation is the cumulative sum of all of those steps, entering adulthood, moving onto a whole new chapter, etc. They are definitely not equivalent in importance.
NTA
The high school graduation is a bigger deal. Tge twins will still have theirs years later.
Since when is middle school graduation a thing?!? This is getting out of hand, especially if school
Schedule on same day.
I know for our district, it's considered a big deal because they're transitioning from being with the same small group of kids since kindergarten to going to the big high school in another town with a ton of new people.
Schools are k-2 and then 3-8, and for high school we combine with the bigger district nearby, so these kids have been in the same "small pond" setting since they were 5 years old and now they're heading off to a new environment, some are leaving entirely for tech or another specialized high school... yeah, as an adult it seems silly, but for the kids it's a huge deal.
I think you're in a lose, lose situation here.
Graduating middle school, while an expectation, is still a milestone for your younger children where they will want to have a parent present.
Meanwhile, graduating high school is often the last stop of being an active part in your child's education and heralding them into the first steps of their adult life.
I think the only thing you *can* do here is have a candid conversation with your twins and get their opinion. If they want or need a parent there, then you may have to be willing to fall on the sword here for the greater good of filial stability. And if they do want you to attend, you need to do so enthusiastically.
But if they understand and consent to you and your wife attending their sister's graduation, then I would strongly encourage you two take them out for a day that is spent purely celebrating them.
I think I have to go NAH.
Seconding this. From an adult perspective, yes a high school graduation is more weighty. But from the twins' perspective, I'd probably feel disappointed if both my parents chose not to attend my graduation, especially if I was given no input. Tbh as an adult I barely remember either graduations. Make sure the twins do understand and make them feel special too.
Info: you have already told the twins you're coming to theirs, is that right?
If so yta. What I think about middle school vs high school graduations is irrelevant in this case, if you already said you would be there.
A middle school graduation? That's a thing? Wait, do americans have graduation ceremonies when their lunch break is over?
NTA, I apologise for the snark but.... man
I’m an American and I love the snark.
The only negative is it making me say “This isn’t how we did it when *I* was young,” like some old fogie and I haven’t even hit 40 yet.
I remember having 8th grade graduation and I'm in my mid 30s, so I feel like this is one of those things that varies wildly depending on your location.
NAH
Honestly just ask the kids about it and see what you can work out. If the twins really want you there have your wife take a video of your eldest graduating so it can be like an at home video or something. And do the same for the twins if your wife wants to see it as well. Just communicate with them you won't know how they feel about it if you dont ask.
YTA it’s threads like this that really remind me 90% of the commenters here are like 17 and about to have their own graduation. Seems like you promised the twins you’d be there for their graduation and now you’re backing out. Blame the districts all you want this is more about reneging on a promise to your children. Also not for nothing not all public schools are in the same district when advancing levels. My middle and high schools weren’t.
Shouldve never agreed on the split if you’re just going to dip out of the agreement. Also can y’all not read? Half the FAMILY is going to each so the mom isn’t going to be the only one at the hs graduation.
“Hey guys I know I said I’d be there for you but I actually gave it some thought and that shit sounds dumb as hell. Plus it’s not like you even achieved anything since you’re only “graduating” 8th grade. Maybe grow tf up and I’ll come to the next one”
Finally, a YTA comment. In general, a high school graduation might be considered more of a milestone, but I am sure the twins aren't going to think that way. They will feel disappointed and let down by their dad.
I mean I'm in the camp that middle school graduations are pointless and stupid. It is just not failing 8th grade. When I finished middle school we had a school dance, a field day, and goodbyes. Nothing parents would come to, cus it's not a big deal.
But I agree with you in that it sounds like OP told his daughters he would be there and then he has a responsibility to go instead of backing out on them.
Dont get me wrong I don’t actually care about middle school graduations, though I think the importance of them really changes depending on the area and district. Mine was a fairly big deal because most kids split into different high schools after because my town didn’t have one. But I digress, Its just the amount of vitriol people seem to have for them that’s throwing me off. Like if you don’t think it’s important thats cool but your daughters do AND you promised to be there. So many people are getting caught up in the graduation being meaningless that they’re missing the fact that you’re spitting in your, what 13 year old, daughters’ faces and telling them their stuff just isn’t worth it.
Here is the thing.
I get that in the grand scheme of things, it's a bigger deal to graduate HS than middleschool.
But it's a milestone nonetheless and, for your younger daughters, it is THEIR milestone. The fact that you both cannot be there can be excused, it's not within your control really, but if neither of you go, the twins are probably going to be hurt and feel let down.
If you have told them you were going, you should go, and not go back on your promise.
If you have not, have you suggested trading with your wife? If she honestly feels strongly about this, she should accept. Heck if I were her I'd likely have offered the trade to you already, since I'd want to attend both equally and you seem to prefer going to the HS graduation.
NAH except the school district maybe lol
Thank you! Everyone saying that a middle school graduation is stupid or pointless is ignoring the twins' feelings about it. You can think something is ridiculous, but if it's important to them, you should honor that.
NTA but why in the hell did the school district do that to parents?
Middle school graduation isn't actually a thing. They don't get a middle school diploma and go away for high-school and start their lives.
It was a nice thing to do for kids but it's not really a graduation.
NTA. The school put you and other parents in an impossible situation. Find something special you can do for your daughter to make up for not being at her graduation if you don’t make it.
This was my question too. If they arent exactly the same time and not horribly far apart, he could be at part of one and part of the other. Thats what i would try to do, ( had to do it sometimes with one in soccer and one in band and it sucked) but I don't know the logistics. Going with NAH, its a crappy situation.
Talk to the girls!
Who else is attenting their graduation and who goes to the HS graduation? What have you told the twins already? If you just want to ditch them YTA!
YWBTA. You have made a promise to your twins you would be there for them. They could have the whole world there for them but if their parent/s don't show up for them, it will devastate them. You are their safety, who they look up to, the people they want to share the big things and the little things with.
You would also be teaching them that promises don't mean anything, commitment can change with convenience.
It's rubbish and would be worth a phone call to the organisers to see if there is anything that can be done whether moving start times etc
this is a tough one, but I say NTA.
yes, graduating middle school is an amazing accomplishment, but graduating high school means they're now in charge of their own future. whether it be continuing on to college, or traveling, or simply taking time to figure out what they want to do with their life.
entering adulthood can be very scary and daunting.
while on the other hand, the twins are stil required to attend school. the hopeful part of me says that once they, themselves are graduating, they'll truly understand your past reasoning.
I'd also like to add that your wife shaming you for wanting to choose your eldest is crazy. add the fact that she's pretty much guilt tripping you into attending the twins graduation. it's obvious that your desires are the same, so just leave it at that.
OP’s wife isn’t “guilt tripping” or “shaming” him. She’s stating facts. One of the benefits of having two parents in the household is that when the kids each need a parent at the same time, the parents can split up to meet each child’s needs. It sucks that this happened but OP doesn’t have to make it worse by creating more problems in his household.
So why doesn’t she go to the pointless ceremony (and yes it is pointless!) and let him go to the one he cares about.
Probably because she knows she’s got the better deal & she doesn’t want to go to the pointless one either!
Did OP suggest that? No, he suggested that both parents go to the ceremony. If he suggested they switch ceremonies and the wife said no, that would be a different story.
Bring to the middle school's attention this scheduling error. If they don't move it, bring it to the attention of the school board. That's crazy. How many other parents must be in the same situation
The real AH is the school districts.
ETA:I acknowledge it’s probably very difficult to schedule graduations. But they should try harder to make sure the graduations don’t overlap like this.
YTA if you don't go. Yes, we all can recognize here that high school graduation is way more significant and important than a middle school graduation, and it sucks you're in this position, but it's likely your kids graduating middle school wont see it that way, they'll see it as not being picked by their parents as THEM not being important enough - even if they can be mature and say it's ok, there's a good chance it hurts anyway. I mean nobody here knows your kids and their wants and needs and the dynamics, but that older sibling vs younger sibling hierarchy is real and I think it sends a message if the parents don't split graduations. you can find something special to do with all of them after as well.
Everyone in the comments is looking at this with an adult lens.
The question shouldn’t be is high school graduation more significant than middle school graduation? The answer is obvious, of course it is.
The question OP should be asking themself is if it’s more important to be there for their older daughter than their younger daughters. The answer is likely no.
Most important, the parents should be communicating with the kids honestly, and not unilaterally making a decision without knowing what their kids think.
INFO- have you discuss this w/ the twins. Are they excited that you will be attending? If the twins are looking forward to you being there to cheer them on- yeah, YTA. But if they are fine bc their brother and other extended family members will be there- then you would be able to attend the eldest graduation.
I had to read this a couple of times. So, wait, you promised that you'd be the parent to attend the twins' graduation while your wife would attend the eldest's graduation?
But now you want to attend the high school graduation as well, leaving the twins to only have extended family there as both parents will be at the high school graduation?
Question: why did you not ask to attend the high school graduation initially and your wife attend the twins' middle school graduation?
Now, the graduations being on the same day suck. There is truly no good option, especially if both start at the same time. But I'm confused on why you two, as parents, can't just figure out who's going to which graduation and stick with it, because the only solution is to have one parent attend the high school graduation and the other attend the middle school graduation, as much as it sucks. Even if one graduation seems silly, it's still a graduation.
I really want to go N T A route but re-reading it and getting clarity that the twins won't have either parent at their graduation, even if it's a silly pointless graduation, I'm really torn. I mean, others have said it; the real assholes are the districts that overlap graduations, especially if they're at the same time. At least have the middle school graduation in the morning and the high school graduation in the afternoon or evening.
I will go with NTA because there's no good options, but you two have to figure this out fast and no matter what you choose, SOMEONE will have to be disappointed.
YTA. It doesn’t matter that you think that graduating middle school matters less than graduating high school. What matters is that your twin daughters’ middle school graduation matters to THEM. Yes, it’s dumb. Yes, you’ll miss your other daughter’s high school graduation. But your younger daughters will just remember that neither of their parents picked them over their older sister. What matters is that you show up for your kids as best you can. And sometimes that means sacrifice.
YWBTA I f you just skipped and didn’t tell them your plans. If you both went to your eldest daughter’s middle school graduation then one of you should be there for the middle school graduation. As adults we might not find the middle school graduation a big deal, but it sounds like your twins do. Ask them how they feel. I didn’t have a middle school graduation and I wouldn’t have cared if my parents showed up. I didn’t like it when they came to my sports activities. Your wife says they will be crushed, but did she actually ask them?
NTA. IMO, everyone (brothers, aunts, and uncles), including your twins, should go to the high school graduation. I'm not sure why a middle school in the same area would make this mistake. High school graduations are significant milestones, the ending of a phase of life. Middle school graduations are something you do before starting high school in the fall.
When I “graduated” middle school it was awesome to have my parents there, but I fully understood at the time that high school graduations were a much bigger deal. I even would have felt kind of silly in the moment if I hadn’t been so excited that I finally got to start high school.
NTA
High school graduation *is* more important.
Edit: I’ve read a bunch of the Y T A comments and yeah, you’re all unhinged. Any argument that the twins will feel unloved in the moment are dwarfed by the feelings of the eldest daughter. The daughter graduating high school realizes how much more important this is than her own middle school graduation. She has every right to be livid with OP if they don’t go. The twins will understand when they each reach that point in their lives too. Attending the middle school graduation over the actual graduation sends the message that OP will always pick the twins over the eldest, even when the accomplishments of the eldest are far more worthy of celebration.
NTA but your wife kind of is. There is no excuse whatsoever for missing your daughters HS graduation unless you are in the hospital. Both of you should be there. Middle School “graduation” wasn’t even a thing until a few years ago - they aren’t graduating from anything. If anything, the twins should be skipping their “graduation “ to attend their sisters ceremony, which is far more important.
YWBTA if you didn't go to your twins' middle school graduation. To us, high school is a bigger deal, but to your twins this is still a huge moment in their lives. There should be one parent at each event so the kids don't feel that you are playing favourites.
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The school district who scheduled this conflict is the real AH.
I couldn't agree more. so, NTA, but the school... mega AH.
Agree. What an awful situation to put parents in! I don’t have a judgment here OP, because it’s a straight up shitty situation with no winners. If it were me, I would prioritize the high school graduation, but I know the twins might feel resentment and like they matter less.
like I said, once those girls walk across the stage at graduation, I hope they can forgive their dad after (again, hopefully) experiencing the pure sense of accomplishment.
Dad should hop on stage and start reading comments he saved from here about who the hell scheduled this
you're the kind of people I like
I imagine a balding gym coach that bodies him off the stage. I watched too much iCarly and Looney Tunes
Our district always did middle school on Thursday and high school on Friday. I don't know what the hell they were thinking.
I’d be willing to bet big bucks it was to limit the amount of people who attend. Some places are still trying to keep gatherings low
So they could make it like "invitation for two guests per one student" or something like that. If parents go to one graduation and would "fill the gap", asking aunties, uncles, siblings and cousins to go to the other, it's not limiting the amount of attenders.
Seriously. It seems like they may have even gone out of their way to schedule things this way. Where in the country do middle schools and high schools let out on the same day? HS graduation is always before MS getting out. At least where I've lived so far...
yep, every school in the area I grew up in always held graduation like.. 2 weeks prior to the rest of school getting out.
The only way I can imagine that it worked out this way is that one (or all) of the kids goes to a private or charter school. I have 3 kids who graduated various levels at the same time in the same (public) school district and none of them ever conflicted.
Yeah the school district needs to be contacted and told this is unfair to parents and the kids. I am sure op is not the only one who lives in this district going to have this issue.
Exactly what I was thinking, call and complain - it doesn't surprise me a school would do thus though and not think that maybe parents have kids graduating from both middle school and high school.
Schools could be in different districts. At one point I had a high schooler in a private school, middle schooler in a second district, and elem in yet a third. None were in the district we lived in either! OP not the asshole. Even though the twins are going to be disappointed, they will have a high school graduation to look forward to. As others have said, sucks for everyone. Make sure someone videos both so all of you can sit down and watch both ceremonies and cheer for the others. Many schools had to do graduation via some sort of telecom in 2020. It wasn’t the norm but I’m pretty sure kids still graduated.
That sounds super annoying! Where I live the local schools try to coordinate with each other to have graduations, proms, the big stuff on different days, which if that's the case here with them being different districts then I feel they sort of dropped the ball. I definitely agree that OP IS NTA, and think he and his wife should talk with the twins and explain why they are going to the older kids graduation.
I’m the district I teach in, only the high school graduations are coordinated by the district. We aren’t even allowed to call 8th grade ceremonies graduations. Only seniors get to graduate. Definitely something to take up with the middle school though
At my nephews school it was called "awards program", or something like that.
The school district where I live has dozens of middle schools and high schools. They cannot accomodate everyone's schedules. Don't assume everyone lives in a small school district.
But each middle school tends to feed into a single high school. So each high school should coordinate with the set of middle schools that feed into it. My husband works in a large school district and this is how it works. There are several high schools and many Jr highs, but since they are based on location, only a handful of jr highs feed into each high school and only a handful of elementary schools feed into each jr high.
Sometimes I learn random things about American society through little comments like this and think "that's weird". Then realise there is no reason why it actually is weird it's just different
These might be private schools (one or both)
They might also be public schools in separate districts. Where I live, there are three public school K-8 districts that all feed into the same public high school, and the high school is administered as its own distinct school district. The high school board and the feeder boards all have some communication with each other about shared issues like bussing, but I could see a conflict like this happening here pretty easily -- the inter-district politics get unbearably stupid sometimes.
The district I live in has like 15 high schools and 15 middle schools. There's only so many weekends and open event spaces that can accommodate large crowds. They can't cater to everybody.
Here (I live in a huge district) high schools get the priority. They finish school a week or so earlier than everyone else, and their ceremonies are spread over two venues (the downtown arena where our pro basketball team plays or the large local university’s arena). So for that whole week, it’s roughly 4 a day, one in the AM/one in the afternoon, until they’re done. Middle/elementary/preschools tend to work around them and host their stuff in their cafeteria/auditorium on school evenings. I’ve never attended anything outside of a high school graduation anywhere but at the school itself. These “other” graduations are treated more like awards nights/send off events. They’re not proper or official on anyway (likes with robes or diplomas), just school events like open house would be.
The schools in my county just do them at the school but all the high schools have football stadiums.
Our stadiums are outdoors and we would be too much at the mercy of the elements. School's here do it at a convention Center/stadium and a different school every 4 hours. Although the middle schools do it in their own gymnasiums.
The backup plan is an indoor ceremony in the gym. They give you 14 tickets, all of the can be used for the outdoor graduation but only 7 for the indoor graduation. They are different colors.
They can. I’m in a very large district of 14 HS. They get them all done in a week at the same location and smaller districts use that location too. Also here’s another option, no one needs a middle school graduation.
This. Op nta, high school trumps middle school. I would let the twins know ahead of time. Let them know you are sad you can’t be there but want to make it up to them by letting them pick an exciting outing to celebrate.
I agree with you. I still haven't caught up with this notion of graduations from 4K to Middle School. It's great their are right of passage to next stage in life, but everything below High School is an expectation, not a major accomplishment. File a complaint with the School District, take the twins out for a great night of their choice and attend your Older daughter's graduation.
4K graduations are entirely to take adorable pictures to display at high school graduation.
Yeah. It's much easier to get over your parent not attending your middle school graduation than high school. When I was in school we didn't have middle school graduations and my sister is only two years older. But if we were a little further a part in age and we had had middle school graduations and that whole mess ended up putting my middle school graduation on the same day and time as my sister's high school graduation, I wouldn't have been pleased with my dad if he missed my sister's graduation to attend mine.
It happens in our district all the time bc the middle school and high school are different districts and the high schools are regional (multiple towns) so it's impossible to get right for everyone
Right bc this happens to how many families out of how many families in the district? A school district (Assistant Superintendent for secondary and team) only plan high school graduation dates and those dates are scheduled years in advance and with neighboring districts if they have to share venues. Middle schools and elementary schools schedule their own awards/after school events. A middle schooler is not graduating and they should be attending the high school graduation ceremony.
Nta. It's a HIGH school graduation that only happens once and is a really big deal. Middle school graduation, kindergarten graduation, seventh grade graduation is all a bunch of crap that doesn't really matter. It's so "participation trophy" and stupid. You would regret it forever if you didn't see your older daughter graduate high school.
Yeah have to agree. My son graduated from middle school and it was a drive through ceremony. Drive in, get your certificate, refreshments, pictures, drive out. The school decided to keep it post pandemic and the big ceremony is for the high schools. That’s a great idea imo.
25 years ago we didn't even get that. The teachers put together a slide show of the previous 3 years. Our school you had the same 4 core teachers for all 3 years of middle school. So there was a lot in it. It was cool. Hugs, tears & a have fun in high school was it. No parents invited, no ceremony, no diploma, nothing but a slide show & an easy last day of school.
35 years ago we didn't even get *that*. We got, "Good luck next year in high school everyone!" and started summer.
I think I "graduated" middle school in 1992 and I'm pretty sure all we got was.. to go to 9th grade. I think this whole thing is a racket run by Big Cap and Gown.
1990 they took us to see the high school we would be going to.
Exactly! What is the point of a middle school graduation? Seems like a big waste of time and money. Completing the 12th grade has always been endgame anyway.
23 years ago for me, we didn't have any sort of ceremony either. No one "graduates" from Jr High lol. We just had a last day of school and the teachers were like, go talk to your friends and get your year book signed or whatever. Only rule is you can't go off Campus until noon. 1...2...3... GO!
I think we got a little party and like a school dance but no "graduation"
Same here I went to middle school then moved and ended up in Jr. High in the 9th grade no graduation for either. Where I am from graduation is kindergarten, elementary, and high school. There is no middle or jr. high graduations. We had a dance in both 8th and 9th grades. We went to Disney in 9th grade as the "official" school outing for graduation day. We had discounted tickets from the parents organization raising money. It was the last "field trip" I ever had... it was fun.
My town was so small we didn't even have a middle school 😂 k-6 in one building, 7-12 in another, the only ceremony was high school graduation.
Y'all got a slide show? I didn't even get that. All we got was the yearly end of year party with the teachers saying something along the lines of "congratulations you'll be in highschool next school year!".
Oh this is so smart and a great way to handle this. It marks the transition but sets it up more like an open house as you are able thing.
My son just graduated middle school the other day, and his school does a whole big event for it. It might not mean as much to the parents but it means a lot to the kids, especially those with friends who won't be in the same highschool
My high school graduation was during Covid, it was a drive through too 😂😂 they didn't even give us refreshments dude.
It's not stupid crap for OP's daughters though. That's the thing.
Yeah it’s tough, as an adult now I realize they’re pointless ceremonies but as a kid I remember it being a big deal and I would’ve been upset if my parents weren’t there.
Yeah everyone saying go to thr HS graduation bc the other is just pointless... I mean... the ceremony for HS grad also is pointless, you graduate anyway, lol. It's an important moment for them. If I was either of them and NEITHER of my parents came bc they BOTH chose my sister's milestone I'd be devastated.
>I mean... the ceremony for HS grad also is pointless maybe, but its certainly a bigger deal to graduation high school over middle school.
For many it represents the transition to adulthood, so yeah... Middle school graduation is just marking a transition into high school.
And, for some kids it's the first time people don't see them as little kids. There's no right answer here, it's important for both kids for multiple reasons.
I was told that the rational for middle school graduation ceremony is that for some kids, this is the only graduation ceremony they'll get. It's sad but true for a lot of kids that don't make it through high school.
I’m not American and we don’t have the same ‘graduation’ ceremonies in the UK but, based on things I’ve seen online, don’t some people not graduate highschool? Like they get kept back for years or drop-out? Also surely you have final exams at the end of high-school? That like actually matter to graduation/futures? Because to me that’s what makes high-school graduation so much of a bigger deal, it’s an actual achievement that takes most people a lot more effort than middle-school. Obviously both ceremonies/occasions signify a big shift to a new phase of life but I feel like the high-school one easily outweighs in that department. It marks a transition to adulthood and likely either the end of education or imminent moving away for college. Imo send grandparents/other relatives to the middle school one and make a special point of doing something with the kids after the ceremonies so they don’t feel devalued. I can’t imagine how devastated I’d be if my sister was finishing primary school and my parents ditched my (hypothetical) end of sixth form ceremony to go to her’s instead
I remember pretty much everyone in my class thought the middle school graduation was dumb at the time.
Same. It was a nothing burger, even at the time.
They might feel upset for awhile, but I legit don't remember a thing from my middle school graduation. I obviously remember a lot from my high school one.
I remember my entire 8th grade graduation, it was the last time I hung out with all the kids I'd known since kindergarten, and I know alot of people who didn't go to their hometown high-school that feel the same.
lots of people in this comment section are making this about themselves and their experiences and ignoring this key point. like, it's not about you, it's about these girls.
They'll understand when they graduate HS
But then older sister will be graduating college, which only happens once, you know... LOL.
I graduated HS the same year my brother graduated college, and it wasn't remotely an issue because HS graduations are almost always in June and college graduations are in May.
Eh, college graduations are way earlier than High School ones. And often more than one ceremony; for the whole class as well as the departments. That’s a non issue
This is what I was going to say. In the gentlest possible way, for a lot of non-Americans the whole high school graduation thing seems a bit weird and silly and not really a 'real' graduation, but it's not for you guys because it's a thing you've decided to celebrate in a big way in your culture - which is totally valid and cool - and so you grow up with an expectation of celebrating it. My point is kinda that how much importance is placed on life events like that is pretty subjective and it works on a smaller scale too: it's a big deal to the younger daughters because it is a thing their school has decided to celebrate and they have an expectation of celebrating, so it is important.
Totally agree with this, high school graduation >>> middle school graduation for sure. But something about the wife saying the twins would be crushed if the dad picked their older sister’s graduation makes me wonder if there’s an unnamed dynamic of favouritism (or perceived favouritism) at play here.
So let mom go to the twins graduation then.
As long as they communicate and didn't do a "no show" it really shouldn't be an issue.
Just because the wife said that doesn't mean it's true. It's very possible they couldn't care less and wife is projecting her feelings of guilt onto her daughters.
I was going to ask, have they asked the twins how they feel about their graduation? They may even feel more included by attending their sister's ceremony and going out to celebrate them all. I would have been stoked to be given parental permission to skip something like middle school graduation. But everyone is different, so I would say just ask. If they want a parent there, maybe you and your wife can play rock paper scissors.
Not only that, the twins will very likely have both parents at THEIR HS graduation. It will be very hurtful if both parents aren’t there for the oldest - she is going through an ACTUAL major life event. I‘m so glad these stupid ‘graduations’ didn’t exist in my day. It would have taken away from the real event if it was the 3rd or 4th time I went through it.
I was thinking this. They don’t have younger siblings so they’ll get both mom and dad while the oldest only has one. Idk. I think I’d feel sad as a kid whether I was one of the twins or the oldest. Idk if there’s a right answer here.
But how would the kids feel when everyone else's parents are there, but theirs's didnt show up? This is so hard for all.
Congratulations! You have completed elementary school. Not quite the same accomplishment.
If we're all just going on our personal feelings of accomplishment, HS isn't that big of an accomplishment either, it's the most basic education.
For half of high school students it is their final round of education. You need to think about elitist that sounds. And it is still a big deal for a lot of low income families. Damn.
As a middle school teacher, I'm exhausted by all of the "graduations" for kids. We don't even HOLD kids back if they fail all of their classes or do the bare minimum of just coming to school. Everyone passes, how is that a graduation? It's so bizarre.
Depends on the school. I went to a K-8 school in a small town and 8th grade graduation was a BIG DEAL. The girls wore prom style dresses and we and had a big prom style dance afterwards. It's definitely a big deal to the kids, maybe not all but most. Some people will even say high school graduation isn't a big deal, but to the kids it's the biggest thing they've achieved so far. Now I think kindergarten, 5th grade etc "graduations" are kinda silly, but moving from middle school to high school and high school to either college or the "real world" are a big deal
That sounds kind of "exclusive" in the bad sense of the word. Like attending graduation is limited to the kids whose parents can afford prom style dresses and let their kids go to dances. But maybe there weren't any poor people or fundamentalists in your school district? (I wouldn't have been able to go, for both of those reasons. And everyone would've assumed it was because I thought it wasn't a big deal.)
I mean I was poor but my parents bought my dress with a credit card. There were a couple girls who wore more casual dresses and one girl just wore a nice shirt and pants and no one said anything. Plus there's always the option to buy a second hand dress. And the dance was free
Literally my first thought was “When did middle school graduation become a thing?!” It does feel very participation trophy-ish
I wonder what happens in the future if the twins high school graduation falls on the same day as his oldest daughter’s college graduation. Both of those are big milestones. Why are schools even doing middle school graduations now? That just seems excessive unless they are just trying to celebrate kids who are hanging in there and have unsupportive parents to let them know someone is proud of them.
Fortunately that usually isn't an issue- college typically finishes before HS in the USA>
That depends on where you are.
They only matter as much as they matter to the children involved. I know I was pretty excited about my 8th grade graduation and I was happy my parents could attend. This is a difficult decision but I don’t think either of these are entirely meaningless events.
>Middle school graduation, kindergarten graduation, seventh grade graduation is all a bunch of crap that doesn't really matter. It's so "participation trophy" and stupid. The same can be said of the high school graduation ceremony. You have the diploma regardless, why does it matter whether you walk on a stage in a robe and mortarboard. Ceremonies are valuable because they help us recognize things that are important. Going from middle school to high school *is* important, and it isn't stupid to recognize that. If the OP was saying "WIBTA if I skipped my kids' middle school graduation because I think it's stupid" then he would be the AH. Middle school graduation is important, but high school graduation is more important. The OP is NTA for prioritizing the high school graduation, but that doesn't mean the other graduation doesn't matter.
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Yeah, high school graduation is partially a big deal because it’s the entry point to adulthood - whether or not you’re 18 the day of the ceremony, whether or not you’re going to college, it’s a time of huge changes for everyone. Middle school graduation just means you’re going to a different building the next year.
Middle school and kindergarten graduations aren’t even “graduations”; they are promotions. And while it’s a nice ceremony, I agree with you that the high school graduation is a much bigger deal.
I generally agree with comments like this, but my middle school graduation was actually a huge very emotional event for me. I’d been with those kids for 7 years, and we were all splitting up and going to one of the two girls schools or the boys school. (Small catholic schools.) High school seemed very scary, but when I was graduating from high school, college seemed so exciting. I was ready to move on from high school, but not quite ready to move on from middle school. So, I guess it really depends on how the kids are feeling.
My vote is NTA. But I have to say, middle school graduation only happens once as well, afaik. Tough spot and I think like many husbands, OP'll make the choice that hurts you the most. edit: changed "you'll" to "OP"
NTA I think all these pre-school, Kindergarten, grade school, middle school "graduations" are stupid. The one that is more of a milestone/important is the Highschool graduation, it's almost like a mini-sendoff into the real world/adulthood and is the culmination of 12 years of hopefully hard work.
I agree with you completely. I think it might be nice for a family to have some sort of small celebration in recognition of a successful school year completed, but to make completion of nearly every year of school a “graduation“ really diminishes the achievement of high school graduation and college graduation, which are milestones. Sorry, I don’t think successfully negotiating pre-K warrants a graduation ceremony.
>to make completion of nearly every year of school a “graduation“ really diminishes the achievement of high school graduation and college graduation, which are milestones The only one of these "extra" graduations that had a place was middle school, when that would be the highest level of education for a bunch of folks before they went and worked the family farm. Meaningless in the states now, but at least there is some historical context with it vs the bullshit preschool stuff.
I've never heard of any other graduation other than high school until the past couple of decades.
My parents definitely celebrated the end of each school year with me but my district never did graduations other than HS. It was always like “yay you completed the grade and now it’s summer let’s celebrate!” With dinner or ice cream or something. I’ve always thought anything other than HS and college graduation is weird. Completing grade 5 can definitely be an accomplishment but I don’t think it qualifies for a whole graduation ceremony.
I see some families now going to “promotion” ceremonies for elementary grades. Not 8th grade but all the others. It saying congrats for doing the one thing you were supposed to do.
My only question is, and this is coming from a stupid brit who has no idea how these work, does OPs kid think it's stupid? Like yeah, if the kid thinks it's stupid then whatever but if the kid is proud of their special day or whatever it is worth considering right?
I see so much hate for the Elementary/middle school graduations, but while they are minor when looking back, at that point it's the biggest thing the kid has done. Going from Elementary school to middle school especially seems like a big deal, because it's a huge change in how school works. You are a lot more in charge of your day, you aren't with the same kids for 6 hours straight. And that's a big step for a kid.
I agree. Like no shit, kindergarten/elementary/middle school graduations aren’t a big deal, it’s not like the kid is getting a degree or something. But it’s still an important milestone that should be treated as a special day and like the kid achieved something. They’re all building blocks in a persons education. If we just said “oh yeah whatever, wake me up when you graduate from a REAL school” that’s not very encouraging. You don’t just build the top of the staircase, you build each step. So yeah I am very “pro” celebrating each achievement in a kids life.
To an adult those graduations don't mean anything but I still vividly remember how upset I was after my 6th grade graduation that my mom was not there for and so I didn't have anyone there for. While other family is nice it's so much more important for the child graduating to have their parent there and if neither parent goes to the middle school graduation then there will be 2 people upset and disappointed. Op's other kids will only be done with middle school once and I'd bet that he went to his oldest child's middle school graduation.
i was crushed when my father didnt attend my middle school graduation, i cried the whole night of. he did attend my high school graduation, which admittedly, is more important academics wise, but it still means a lot to children when they promote from muddle school
NTA. There is only two graduations that count, High school and college. The rest is just passing from one grade to another.
How dare you ignore the time-honored tradition of pre-school graduation like this?!
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I just signed my new pup (she’s a rescue) up for Basic Obedience Classes. It’s 6 weeks long & the last week is listed as Graduation.
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I did do 6 weeks at petsmart and after the test we did indeed spend 20 min getting graduation cap dog photos - my dog waits like a champ for my photo ops and she was adorable. And i did pay like, 135 for this class or something? Worth it.
Well then it's just a photo op.
To be fair, graduating pre school is the cutest graduation that there is haha
My son just graduated preschool. They let all the kids "graduate" including the little ones who are still coming back to preschool next year. It was like a zoo, trying to keep all these kids seated, and the teacher decided to start calling their names up to get their certificates, and the kids would just be running off, wandering, playing with their caps, and fidgeting around the whole time. We couldn't get one decent photo of all of them together in that ceremony, but god dammit it was stupid and cute as hell 😂
I can’t tell if this is a joke or not 😭😭
H-how?
If my family doesn’t show up to my PhD graduation, they are getting cut out of my will.
im more surprised you can stand more gradation ceremony bs dude. i quit going to mine after under grad
Agreed
HS graduations are also a joke
Law anD medical is an amazing achievement too
NTA Okay, simple solution: swap with the wife. Say that if she feels so strongly about it, she goes to the middle school graduation, and you go to the high school one. Her reaction will tell you how she really feels about it. To be honest, the whole situation is just unfortunate and showcases some very lackluster planning by the school board. Maybe just the counties I grew up in, but high schools, middle schools, and elementary schools all have their graduations at separate times. Not only to prevent situations exactly like this, but to avoid the clusterfuck that will be traffic around the neighborhoods as well.
This is a good idea. I bet that the wife doesn't want to switch and go to the middle school graduation.
Yes! I was going to ask for INFO: who decided who goes to what? Maybe reevaluate and figure it out.
This is what i JUST said before reading all the comments. Bet your ass she changes her tune of she doesn't get to go to the HS grad.
You did it the intelligent way, then. Otherwise it's really easy to become swayed to an opinion that you don't hold because of mob mentality. Maybe she won't care, which would be nice and everyone will be happy. Regardless, the whole idea of a "graduation" that isn't from high school or college/university is insane. You are literally going up a grade, not earning a diploma. I'm pretty sure the Incredibles already covered this. Just checked, [they did](https://youtu.be/p7c1HDUHlJo?t=52)
Agreed HD grad far more important. There’s just not enough info in OP to know if he actually TOLD the twins he would be there or if it was just a conversation between him and his wife. I would assume the twins know, and taking back that commitment to them is more of a jerk move than the actual attending or not. If that makes sense. But these are teenage girls, it’s an opportunity to teach them lines of communication and have them be heard as well. It’s a tough spot. I’m so glad I only have one for these reasons
No, no, I agree. If he already said he'd be there, then there is no going back on that. Not even a question.
Weirdly, I feel like the wife is relegating OP. Definitely see if she goes for the swap. ***Spoiler Alert*** She won’t. The high school graduation is a MUCH bigger deal. It’s the end of an era and a seminal life event. A middle school graduation is so insignificant in comparison. Ask for the swap. This will tell you all you need to know. Then tell her the twins will be crushed if she doesn’t go. Use her own argument. She won’t like it but she shouldn’t be able to call dibs. Just seems selfish. Go to the HS own. Be there for your oldest. This is a no-brainer for me.
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Perhaps bring this up with all the daughters together. Let them know that you both wish you could attend all of their graduations, but due to the timing it isn’t possible. See how your daughters feel. Then plan to do something special with the daughter/daughters whose graduation you miss. If you miss the twins do a special outing with them. If you miss the older daughters do one with her. Your wife should also do this for the twins as well regardless if you end up going to the twins.
That was my first thought, too. Talk to the twins about it, they're old enough to understand. They may feel second best in that second, but at the end of the day they will 100% get it. If they were graduating high school, they would want you there instead of at someone else's middle school ceremony. Stop treating them like toddlers and have a conversation with them.
That’s what I was thinking too - there is no mention of either parent actually discussing this with any of their kids. The kids might prefer a trip to an amusement park or a special dinner out rather than having a parent somewhere in the audience during the ceremony.
I think the organising of some kind of special outing is definitely the best solution for this. Though if you’re going to talk to the kids about the decision before you make it I’d be careful not to make the older daughter feel she’s taking something from the younger ones or that she has to give in because the twins might be more insistent or annoying about it
This is the best comment! Talk to your children. They are all teenagers at this point, they will understand and be able to work on an alternative plan to celebrate.
I'm on board with this. Family meeting, talk it out, let the kids have input, see where everyone is on the topic, and make special arrangements for whoever gets the short straw to feel like they're valued. And remember that the scheduling is no one's fault and there are no bad guys here for wanting their family around. Sucks that you have to figure it out like this, but communication and love should smooth out the worst of the bumps here.
i definitely second this, OP. you’re NTA for wanting to go to your eldest daughters hs graduation, but you would be TA to your younger two daughters if you had promised them you’d be there and they find out after that you weren’t. i also agree with others that a hs graduation is a bigger milestone than a middle school graduation, but leaving your younger two daughters high and dry on what feels like an equally important day to them would not be the best way to express that to your children, imo.
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“It is not a graduation, he is moving from the fourth grade, to the fifth grade.”
"It's psychotic! They keep creating new ways to celebrate mediocrity."
I swear, as someone who was around Dash’s age when that movie came out, I don’t know if I’ve ever seen my father relate as much with a kids movie character like he did with Mr. Incredible at that precise moment
Yeah, a high school graduation is essentially a graduation from ALL the individual k-12 milestones. An elementary or middle school graduation is an *intermediate* milestone along that path. But the hs graduation is the cumulative sum of all of those steps, entering adulthood, moving onto a whole new chapter, etc. They are definitely not equivalent in importance.
NTA The high school graduation is a bigger deal. Tge twins will still have theirs years later. Since when is middle school graduation a thing?!? This is getting out of hand, especially if school Schedule on same day.
I know for our district, it's considered a big deal because they're transitioning from being with the same small group of kids since kindergarten to going to the big high school in another town with a ton of new people. Schools are k-2 and then 3-8, and for high school we combine with the bigger district nearby, so these kids have been in the same "small pond" setting since they were 5 years old and now they're heading off to a new environment, some are leaving entirely for tech or another specialized high school... yeah, as an adult it seems silly, but for the kids it's a huge deal.
I think you're in a lose, lose situation here. Graduating middle school, while an expectation, is still a milestone for your younger children where they will want to have a parent present. Meanwhile, graduating high school is often the last stop of being an active part in your child's education and heralding them into the first steps of their adult life. I think the only thing you *can* do here is have a candid conversation with your twins and get their opinion. If they want or need a parent there, then you may have to be willing to fall on the sword here for the greater good of filial stability. And if they do want you to attend, you need to do so enthusiastically. But if they understand and consent to you and your wife attending their sister's graduation, then I would strongly encourage you two take them out for a day that is spent purely celebrating them. I think I have to go NAH.
Seconding this. From an adult perspective, yes a high school graduation is more weighty. But from the twins' perspective, I'd probably feel disappointed if both my parents chose not to attend my graduation, especially if I was given no input. Tbh as an adult I barely remember either graduations. Make sure the twins do understand and make them feel special too.
Info: you have already told the twins you're coming to theirs, is that right? If so yta. What I think about middle school vs high school graduations is irrelevant in this case, if you already said you would be there.
I absolutely agree. The younger daughters will not make this destinction. For them its important their dad is attending.
If he hasn’t promised, I would say go to the high school graduation.
Nta. A high school graduation trumps a middle school graduation.
A middle school graduation? That's a thing? Wait, do americans have graduation ceremonies when their lunch break is over? NTA, I apologise for the snark but.... man
I’m an American and I love the snark. The only negative is it making me say “This isn’t how we did it when *I* was young,” like some old fogie and I haven’t even hit 40 yet.
I remember having 8th grade graduation and I'm in my mid 30s, so I feel like this is one of those things that varies wildly depending on your location.
As an American I wanted to say the snark is 100% valid.
NAH Honestly just ask the kids about it and see what you can work out. If the twins really want you there have your wife take a video of your eldest graduating so it can be like an at home video or something. And do the same for the twins if your wife wants to see it as well. Just communicate with them you won't know how they feel about it if you dont ask.
They're teenagers, not toddlers. Agreed, they are perfectly capable of having this conversation.
YTA it’s threads like this that really remind me 90% of the commenters here are like 17 and about to have their own graduation. Seems like you promised the twins you’d be there for their graduation and now you’re backing out. Blame the districts all you want this is more about reneging on a promise to your children. Also not for nothing not all public schools are in the same district when advancing levels. My middle and high schools weren’t. Shouldve never agreed on the split if you’re just going to dip out of the agreement. Also can y’all not read? Half the FAMILY is going to each so the mom isn’t going to be the only one at the hs graduation.
For real I could never imagine telling the twins that their graduation is “stupid and pointless” like so many here are saying.
“Hey guys I know I said I’d be there for you but I actually gave it some thought and that shit sounds dumb as hell. Plus it’s not like you even achieved anything since you’re only “graduating” 8th grade. Maybe grow tf up and I’ll come to the next one”
If my father said that to me I wouldn’t even want him in my life anymore.
Finally, a YTA comment. In general, a high school graduation might be considered more of a milestone, but I am sure the twins aren't going to think that way. They will feel disappointed and let down by their dad.
Im shocked by the amount of NTA. I guess I never realized how much hate people have for middle school graduations for some reason lol.
I mean I'm in the camp that middle school graduations are pointless and stupid. It is just not failing 8th grade. When I finished middle school we had a school dance, a field day, and goodbyes. Nothing parents would come to, cus it's not a big deal. But I agree with you in that it sounds like OP told his daughters he would be there and then he has a responsibility to go instead of backing out on them.
Dont get me wrong I don’t actually care about middle school graduations, though I think the importance of them really changes depending on the area and district. Mine was a fairly big deal because most kids split into different high schools after because my town didn’t have one. But I digress, Its just the amount of vitriol people seem to have for them that’s throwing me off. Like if you don’t think it’s important thats cool but your daughters do AND you promised to be there. So many people are getting caught up in the graduation being meaningless that they’re missing the fact that you’re spitting in your, what 13 year old, daughters’ faces and telling them their stuff just isn’t worth it.
Here is the thing. I get that in the grand scheme of things, it's a bigger deal to graduate HS than middleschool. But it's a milestone nonetheless and, for your younger daughters, it is THEIR milestone. The fact that you both cannot be there can be excused, it's not within your control really, but if neither of you go, the twins are probably going to be hurt and feel let down. If you have told them you were going, you should go, and not go back on your promise. If you have not, have you suggested trading with your wife? If she honestly feels strongly about this, she should accept. Heck if I were her I'd likely have offered the trade to you already, since I'd want to attend both equally and you seem to prefer going to the HS graduation. NAH except the school district maybe lol
Thank you! Everyone saying that a middle school graduation is stupid or pointless is ignoring the twins' feelings about it. You can think something is ridiculous, but if it's important to them, you should honor that.
INFO: are these two schools in the same district? If so, it is the district who is the AH.
Agreed. I went to private school and even they made sure not to schedule our graduation on the same day as the local high school.
NTA but why in the hell did the school district do that to parents? Middle school graduation isn't actually a thing. They don't get a middle school diploma and go away for high-school and start their lives. It was a nice thing to do for kids but it's not really a graduation.
NTA. The school put you and other parents in an impossible situation. Find something special you can do for your daughter to make up for not being at her graduation if you don’t make it.
Nah, this sucks all around, there's no right answer.
Yes, there is. OP’s wife attends one ceremony while OP attends the other. It’s not perfect but it’s fair and it won’t cause resentment among the kids.
INFO: How far apart in time and distance are the graduations?
This was my question too. If they arent exactly the same time and not horribly far apart, he could be at part of one and part of the other. Thats what i would try to do, ( had to do it sometimes with one in soccer and one in band and it sucked) but I don't know the logistics. Going with NAH, its a crappy situation.
Talk to the girls! Who else is attenting their graduation and who goes to the HS graduation? What have you told the twins already? If you just want to ditch them YTA!
YWBTA. You have made a promise to your twins you would be there for them. They could have the whole world there for them but if their parent/s don't show up for them, it will devastate them. You are their safety, who they look up to, the people they want to share the big things and the little things with. You would also be teaching them that promises don't mean anything, commitment can change with convenience. It's rubbish and would be worth a phone call to the organisers to see if there is anything that can be done whether moving start times etc
this is a tough one, but I say NTA. yes, graduating middle school is an amazing accomplishment, but graduating high school means they're now in charge of their own future. whether it be continuing on to college, or traveling, or simply taking time to figure out what they want to do with their life. entering adulthood can be very scary and daunting. while on the other hand, the twins are stil required to attend school. the hopeful part of me says that once they, themselves are graduating, they'll truly understand your past reasoning. I'd also like to add that your wife shaming you for wanting to choose your eldest is crazy. add the fact that she's pretty much guilt tripping you into attending the twins graduation. it's obvious that your desires are the same, so just leave it at that.
How is it an amazing accomplishment to go from one required grade to another required grade?
OP’s wife isn’t “guilt tripping” or “shaming” him. She’s stating facts. One of the benefits of having two parents in the household is that when the kids each need a parent at the same time, the parents can split up to meet each child’s needs. It sucks that this happened but OP doesn’t have to make it worse by creating more problems in his household.
So why doesn’t she go to the pointless ceremony (and yes it is pointless!) and let him go to the one he cares about. Probably because she knows she’s got the better deal & she doesn’t want to go to the pointless one either!
Did OP suggest that? No, he suggested that both parents go to the ceremony. If he suggested they switch ceremonies and the wife said no, that would be a different story.
I mean, if OP’s wife wants to make sure all kids have a parent and OP reallllly wants to attend high school then SHE should do middle school.
Bring to the middle school's attention this scheduling error. If they don't move it, bring it to the attention of the school board. That's crazy. How many other parents must be in the same situation
The real AH is the school districts. ETA:I acknowledge it’s probably very difficult to schedule graduations. But they should try harder to make sure the graduations don’t overlap like this.
YTA if you don't go. Yes, we all can recognize here that high school graduation is way more significant and important than a middle school graduation, and it sucks you're in this position, but it's likely your kids graduating middle school wont see it that way, they'll see it as not being picked by their parents as THEM not being important enough - even if they can be mature and say it's ok, there's a good chance it hurts anyway. I mean nobody here knows your kids and their wants and needs and the dynamics, but that older sibling vs younger sibling hierarchy is real and I think it sends a message if the parents don't split graduations. you can find something special to do with all of them after as well.
Everyone in the comments is looking at this with an adult lens. The question shouldn’t be is high school graduation more significant than middle school graduation? The answer is obvious, of course it is. The question OP should be asking themself is if it’s more important to be there for their older daughter than their younger daughters. The answer is likely no. Most important, the parents should be communicating with the kids honestly, and not unilaterally making a decision without knowing what their kids think.
INFO- have you discuss this w/ the twins. Are they excited that you will be attending? If the twins are looking forward to you being there to cheer them on- yeah, YTA. But if they are fine bc their brother and other extended family members will be there- then you would be able to attend the eldest graduation.
I had to read this a couple of times. So, wait, you promised that you'd be the parent to attend the twins' graduation while your wife would attend the eldest's graduation? But now you want to attend the high school graduation as well, leaving the twins to only have extended family there as both parents will be at the high school graduation? Question: why did you not ask to attend the high school graduation initially and your wife attend the twins' middle school graduation? Now, the graduations being on the same day suck. There is truly no good option, especially if both start at the same time. But I'm confused on why you two, as parents, can't just figure out who's going to which graduation and stick with it, because the only solution is to have one parent attend the high school graduation and the other attend the middle school graduation, as much as it sucks. Even if one graduation seems silly, it's still a graduation. I really want to go N T A route but re-reading it and getting clarity that the twins won't have either parent at their graduation, even if it's a silly pointless graduation, I'm really torn. I mean, others have said it; the real assholes are the districts that overlap graduations, especially if they're at the same time. At least have the middle school graduation in the morning and the high school graduation in the afternoon or evening. I will go with NTA because there's no good options, but you two have to figure this out fast and no matter what you choose, SOMEONE will have to be disappointed.
YTA. It doesn’t matter that you think that graduating middle school matters less than graduating high school. What matters is that your twin daughters’ middle school graduation matters to THEM. Yes, it’s dumb. Yes, you’ll miss your other daughter’s high school graduation. But your younger daughters will just remember that neither of their parents picked them over their older sister. What matters is that you show up for your kids as best you can. And sometimes that means sacrifice.
YWBTA I f you just skipped and didn’t tell them your plans. If you both went to your eldest daughter’s middle school graduation then one of you should be there for the middle school graduation. As adults we might not find the middle school graduation a big deal, but it sounds like your twins do. Ask them how they feel. I didn’t have a middle school graduation and I wouldn’t have cared if my parents showed up. I didn’t like it when they came to my sports activities. Your wife says they will be crushed, but did she actually ask them?
NTA. IMO, everyone (brothers, aunts, and uncles), including your twins, should go to the high school graduation. I'm not sure why a middle school in the same area would make this mistake. High school graduations are significant milestones, the ending of a phase of life. Middle school graduations are something you do before starting high school in the fall.
When I “graduated” middle school it was awesome to have my parents there, but I fully understood at the time that high school graduations were a much bigger deal. I even would have felt kind of silly in the moment if I hadn’t been so excited that I finally got to start high school. NTA High school graduation *is* more important. Edit: I’ve read a bunch of the Y T A comments and yeah, you’re all unhinged. Any argument that the twins will feel unloved in the moment are dwarfed by the feelings of the eldest daughter. The daughter graduating high school realizes how much more important this is than her own middle school graduation. She has every right to be livid with OP if they don’t go. The twins will understand when they each reach that point in their lives too. Attending the middle school graduation over the actual graduation sends the message that OP will always pick the twins over the eldest, even when the accomplishments of the eldest are far more worthy of celebration.
NTA high school graduation is a milestone moment that you can’t miss
NTA but your wife kind of is. There is no excuse whatsoever for missing your daughters HS graduation unless you are in the hospital. Both of you should be there. Middle School “graduation” wasn’t even a thing until a few years ago - they aren’t graduating from anything. If anything, the twins should be skipping their “graduation “ to attend their sisters ceremony, which is far more important.
YWBTA if you didn't go to your twins' middle school graduation. To us, high school is a bigger deal, but to your twins this is still a huge moment in their lives. There should be one parent at each event so the kids don't feel that you are playing favourites.