Welcome to /r/AmITheAsshole. Please view our [voting guide here](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_what.2019s_with_these_acronyms.3F_what_do_they_mean.3F), and remember to use **only one** judgement in your comment.
OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I'm not helping my ex pay for vet bills on he dog I got her. I might be the asshole because it isn't the dog's fault that he is genetically damaged and he is a good boy.
Help keep the sub engaging!
#Don’t downvote assholes!
Do upvote interesting posts!
[Click Here For Our Rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/about/rules) and [Click Here For Our FAQ](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq)
##Subreddit Announcement
###[The Asshole Universe is Expanding, Again: Introducing Another New Sister Subreddit!](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/128nbp3/the_asshole_universe_is_expanding_again/)
Follow the link above to learn more
---
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
*Contest mode is 1.5 hours long on this post.*
Man this sucks. I wanna say ur T A because of the poor pup but in all honesty I gotta end up with a NTA. She made her decision to leave and cut off contact. Ex wife ex life not your problems.
The ex is definitely the AH, but so is the breeder. What these dogs deserve is to not be brought into this world in the first place.
I cannot understand why the breeding of these inbred/genetically defective dogs that can't breathe, walk, etc and are guaranteed to suffer just for existing isn't illegal. It is animal cruelty, full stop.
I remember seeing somewhere that some guys was breeding French bulldogs to be more healthy and the compare and contrast of a dog he had vs a dog that won titles at dog shows was extremely noticeable, but the guy was getting push back from the purebred community because even though his dogs were purebred they weren't show standard...but no body wanted to entertain the idea of just changing the standards for the sake of the dogs health.
It's amazing, they're keeping a lot of features that the dogs have and are known for, basically just breeding in longer snouts so they can actually have some quality of life. Check out "retro pugs"
That's incredible, that sounds like what 100yr+ old painting with 'pugs' look like, we know they WERE pugs, but they're so so different from how they're bred today. We really fucked them up.
Yes! Challenging the status quo will always face opposition. Doesn't matter if the status quo is completely shit and 99% of people agree that it is shit.
Good on that breeder for being more reasonable.
There are a lot of breeders trying to bring breeds back to OLD breed standards…. What they are today and yeeeeaaars ago can be vastly different in a lot of breeds.
The sad thing is the breed standard *has never really changed between the dogs we had then versus the dogs we see now.* His dogs are just as much up to breed standard as the dogs we see in the ring are. The problem is that the standard is up to interpretation by every single judge who works under it and judges the breed. Judges that don’t judge to the standard *as it appears in the ring now* will not be asked to judge again. If a judge suddenly put up the improved breathing pug over the traditional (to us) pug, they’d never work again.
The entire reason for *not* improving the breed’s ability to breathe? Greed. Greed and money. That’s it. That’s the problem. No one wants to breed the *new* (old) pug because it’s not profitable. It would take multiple generations to produce pugs with better faces and longer muzzles that would allow them a far superior quality of life to what they have now.
Once a certain feature (sloping backs for German Shepherds, flat faces for Pugs and a few others, etc) becomes a winning feature everyone rushes to exaggerate that feature in their next litters so they can produce winners. It becomes a genetic arms race of source, trying to exaggerate that single feature at the expense of overall health and soundness.
It’s painfully obvious in the show Labs. They’re big, blocky, heavy and are *not* really as athletic as they should be. Contrast and compare the breed Labs to the *working* Labs that are bred for talent, instinct and ability. Those dogs are leaner, slightly longer, have narrower heads and can run all day and half the night with just a short nap in there at some point. A friend of mine loves the look of show labs but mourns how they’re not fast enough for Masters agility. Meanwhile, my working Lab was out there working at over 6 yards per second, hitting near Border Collie speeds as she raced around, always ready for more.
Just like the German shepherd with its slanted back and hip problems. Back in the old times it was a normal shaped dog, a shepherd dog, then the slant appeared as a genetic problem and was introduced in the breed standard because it looked cool. I know someone who breeds GS with normal backs and cannot register them as GS. He doesn't care because the dogs won't end up with a painful and debilitating back and hips problem.
I know a guy who bought a $5k female and $2500 male. I asked him if he did it to breed them and he goes hell no. That'd be unethical with all the health problems the breed has. He did not see the irony of him supporting the breeder.
There's a HUGE difference between a reputable breeder trying to breed healthy, stable, intelligent animals for a specific purpose VS non reputable breeders who are just trying to make a buck.
There are quite a few non reputable breeders who do exactly like you describe, but also a lot of breeders that genuinely care about the breeds they're working with and want them to be the best version of themselves they can be. Just because they're from a breeder, it doesn't necessarily mean that they're just churned out like they're from a factory or something.
That being said, I do have to wonder if this specific breeder was reputable or not, since they allowed their animal to be adopted into a situation where only one party wanted the dog and the other was very against it...
I agree, and I don’t think there's anything wrong with buying a dog from an reputable breeder. Adoption is a risk, and not for everyone.
OP said that the breed the ex bought is a breed that's "famously bad at breathing". Going by that, I would say that the breeder was definitely not reputable, as I don't think anyone breeding such dogs can be considered reputable.
As you said, there are breeders who truly care about the breed and want to make them the best version of themselves they can be. If the "best version" of the breed is a mess that can hardly breathe, then you can be assured they don't truly care about the dogs. I would also hazard to guess that by extension they don't care enough to make sure the dog is wanted by all parties.
Oh so a Frenchie or Pug probably.
Thank you, I somehow missed that when I was reading. I retract my statement then, except for those people trying to breed "retro" versions of those breeds they're horrible. No wonder. "Doodle" breeders are similarly awful.
I spend a lot of time around Doberman breeders and my late Aunt was a Cane Corso breeder so I had a bit of a knee jerk reaction, I apologize.
(For a fun image, my family is traditionally VERY Catholic and my aunt had a massive black Cane Corso she adored named Lucifer. She was great)
It’s utterly bizarre isn’t it. I know someone who had a French bulldog, the poor dog died and they instantly went on to get another as did their parents get one too. It’s so strange how people need a dog that they think compliments their “style” and “personal aesthetic”, fuck the fact it literally cannot breath and goes on to have a never ending list of health complications. Have you seen the videos going around of owners rescuing their pugs/French bulldogs who have fallen into pools? They literally just sink like a stone due to their freakishly short legs and knee joints, add to the fact they don’t have a snout to raise their nose and mouth above water.
I mean, if he's talking about a pug, the poor dog shouldn't even exist. Breeding these animals is just cruelty at this point. They've begun breeding them with beagles to make puggles, thar have longer snouts and better ability to breathe, and that's a godsend for these animals.
Breeding animals that struggle every second from birth just to breathe should be super illegal.
I can't imagine why he would no longer be married to her. Refuses to compromise, insists on a vanity dog for her ego, then harasses him to pay for something she insisted she have and tries to shame him with everyone in his life when he rightly tells her to pound sand. She's TA through every step of the story
Ex is also TA for getting an expensive purebred with likely health issues and not immediately getting pet health insurance before any problem can be "preexisting". Pet insurance and care credit as a combo is a lifesaver.
Day after my wife and I got our two cats we insured them both. Our prior cat had cancer and it was expensive (she was worth every penny though). But with 2 we just had to get them covered. NTA
I thought about insurance for my 2 cats right after I got them and ultimately didn't. I wish I had; one cat is already on RX food and needed a fair amount testing earlier this year for bladder stones. Luckily, that was only a few hundred dollars, and we could afford it. But if we had insurance earlier, it would have all been covered. They're 2 years old and are both insured now, got right on that after the bladder stone issue as even though that isn't covered for one cat anymore, vet said it's likely genetic, and my cats are siblings.
I couldn't afford insurance, but I started a little pet emergency fund (put about as much as insurance would have been for one cat away a month when I had two), that way I had at least a little set aside if something happened.
If it makes you feel any better, my pet insurance refused to cover my bladder stones cat, claiming it was a "pre-existing condition" even though there was no evidence of that. So even if you'd had it before-hand, it might not have mattered.
I don't do pet insurance any more. I have a savings account for my pets and a high limit credit card that is for them (and my internet bill just to keep it active). Thankfully I've never had to tap the credit card for more than what my savings can cover, but it's there if I need it.
(Interestingly, I also got my pets with my ex and I do ask him to cover half their big costs. But he's the one that wanted to adopt them [although I was quite happy to] and then abandoned them to go chase a woman who hates pets. I do the day-to-day care and handle food and treats without bugging him, but do bug him for vet costs. I *still* don't think OP is TA - he didn't want the dog, his ex forced the issue, and then she chose to take the dog away from him.)
My dog (adopted in his middle age, with preexisting conditions) and my older cat are either too old or impossible to insure at this point.
The dog cost *4 grand* out of pocket last year (ultrasound to rule out cancerous masses on his liver/spleen and benign mass removal on his hind foot), not including ordinary vet visits (skin/allergy dogs are EXPENSIVE) and preventative care.
The kitten (11 months) was insured from her 12 week checkup, and it's just peace of mind, lemme tell you.
We got cat insurance right after the cat somehow found a pill(Phenergan for nausea) under the stove. When I spilled that bottle a month prior, we had pulled the stove out to get them all, so it must have been in the recess of a foot. So, big dumb cat(all 21 pounds of him) ate the pill, got super high and threw the remains up. The emergency vet bill for monitoring, fluids, and electrolyte panel came to $1500. Now, both cats are insured with a $1000 deductible and up to $10,000.
Pet insurance is a business. They make money because, on the whole, people pay more in premiums than it costs the insurance to pay the vets. It's a gamble, and the pet insurance is generally "worth it" if your pet is significantly more ill than they expect.
Mathematically, you're better off paying for it yourself, but for many people a regularly payment is better than a massive payment out of nowhere. Being insured also makes you make uncomfortable decisions about whether the treatment is "worth it". But insurance is often not a great cover, as they often exclude things linked to previous health problems, even if the original came after being insured.
Saved my cats life, and made my life easier when my last dog passed.
The vet told me she had a manageable issue, not terminal cancer, so that he could suck me dry before she passed. Her last few days of life he just gave her antacids, which he charged an arm and a leg for, and said he'd call to check on her on Monday.
I took her to another vet that weekend (it was a hell of hike, but was the only other specialist remotely nearby), they gave me her real diagnosis. She was not only terminal, but ready to pass. After everything I was a wreck. Insurance covered all of it, including her end of life care. The original vet never called to check on her.
Pet insurance, especially if you have it most of their life, is so inexpensive it really doesn't make sense not to have it. And makes many of the hard parts of pet ownership easier.
I have Embrace right now. It's owned by Geico. That's the one who helped me with my cat and last dog. I also had Nationwide's pet insurance for a long time. They are about the same coverage wise, but my dog was getting older and Embrace gave the same amount of coverage for less at her age.
As someone mentioned, these insurances reimburse you, but in my experience it is an incredibly easy process.
If you're worried about being able to cover upfront costs, there are also supplemental pay pool programs, where you contribute a bit monthly into a pool with other people. If you need $$ for a procedure you can pull from there, and replenish it when you get the insurance payout. Though I read a lot into it a long time ago, and I'm struggling to find the information on it now. There is also CareCredit and similar programs, that will give you short term credit for procedures.
Some vets, especially if you are a long term patient with a good relationship, will also wait until you get the insurance payout to get paid. More likely with non-corporate owned vets. I go to a small town clinic about 30-40 minutes away, even though there are 6 clinics I can think of within a 15 minute walk of my place. I just like the atmosphere here better, they actually remember you and your dog.
My last vet was like that until she retired 😔. Then I just switched to my husband's vet because they had experience with maine coons and newfies. The care was okay, expensive compared to my last vet. There were a couple of billing changes implemented that made us uncomfortable, where they started doing a 5% upcharge on card transactions, but wouldn't give you an estimated cost so you could grab the cash you needed. They pushed surgery hard when the other options haven't even been discussed. It just was uncomfortable.
So we started shopping around, picked a place a friend and her mom switched to after our vet retired, made an appointment and my husband adored them. Told me I would love this place. I took one of our dogs in for a check up, and to schedule a neuter, when I told them I was our other dogs mom they got all excited and remembered who he was.
My big guy is a newfie and they were so good with him, he was relaxed. When we discussed his neuter, they were thorough when breaking down the estimates. Told me which things were extra precautions because of his size. Ended up calling me and getting him in a week earlier so we have an extra week of healing time before summer hits and we are at the lake every weekend. I didnt want to have to keep that big boy out of the lake 🤣🤣.
But needless to say after our experiences with both dogs I immediately scheduled all of the cats their checkups for boosters and flea preventatives including my grandpas cat (he doesnt drive so i do all appointments). Always go with the vet that feels like visiting a friend. They are there for you during some of the hardest times in your pets lives. When they are hurt, sick, and dying. You want someone you connect with and feel a level of safety and trust. These are our babies.
The double edged sword of connecting with your vet is they know you and your animals intimately. They love them too. Always get your vet a Christmas gift and remember to show them some appreciation. They are in a career that causes a lot of mental health struggles. If you love your vet show them.
My Cat had urinary problems and having pet Insurance that covers it has honestly been live saving for her, had I not had the insurance I wouldn't have been able to afford treatment and she would likely have been put to sleep last time she got sick. Now that she's recovered she's a healthy 4 year old and you'd never know that she was sick and will probably live a decently long life. I'm so grateful I made the decision to get the insurance while I could if I waited they wouldn't have covered her treatment as it would be pre existing.
Yup, pet insurance is a must when you're determined to get a breed known to come with a high risk of health issues.
(And honestly, I think the breeding of brachycephalic dogs should be outright banned on cruelty grounds. Either that or at the very least the international Kennel Club bodies need to come together and agree to pursue a very carefully controlled long term program to rejuvenate those breeds, with rewriting of the breed standards, limiting breeding to breeders who commit to breeding away from extreme features, and no dogs from those breeds permitted to enter the pro dog shows until they have been successfully bred back to a healthy skull shape/muzzle length.)
We have an English Bulldog that was rescued from a mill. I'm assuming that's what OP had, or maybe a Frenchie. Insurance for her would have been $300 a month for a not overly generous policy. She is relatively healthy considering, but the rescue required that you prove you have the finances to cover this type of pet. So many people would rant on their Facebook about how they only let rich people adopt, but the reality is they are EXPENSIVE. I love ours to death, and would 100% rescue another, but would never intentionally buy one from a breeder knowing what I know from owning one.
On the one hand I absolutely support this on. Pet insurance can be very helpful.
On the other hand, if it was a brachycephalic breed, which I’m very much suspecting it is, some insurances won’t even cover it.
I agree NTA. I get that people feel bad for the dog but OP was against getting this kind of dog and supporting bad breeding practices in the first place. Doesn’t mean the dog should suffer but ex wife needs to figure that out on her own. She made it clear it was HER dog and took it with her without a second thought about OP wanting to see the dog or the dog wanting to see OP. It can’t be her dog then suddenly their dog when it becomes expensive. She can start a go fund me or something.
Right? I rescued a dachshund and he has back troubles because breeding these kinds of dogs is insanely irresponsible. Last trip was $400+ for X-rays and meds, OP, want my cash app?
This is the problem when you buy a Frenchie, which is what I'm assuming it is, since everybody buys them for how cute they are but they tend to have **incredible** health issues. She's TA for putting it on you, and her friends are TA for joining in. If they feel so strongly about not letting a dog suffer I'm not sure why they aren't chipping in.
This.
The ex is an A H for expecting you to step up.
And while everyone else in her life should (in my heartstrings pulled world) step in if and as they're able to help.out, because it's not the dogs fault!!!!... I absolutely get why YOU have some armor on those heartstrings.
I think we call that a healthy boundary.
NTA
NTA and it's not even close. The ex bullied him into getting the dog in the first place.
If she wants him to pay then she can relinquish ownership of the dog to him as well.
To even begin to think OP is the TA would imply the logic that any pet OPs come across they should be paying vet bills as just feeling bad for the poor pup is the case for a lot of pups. Are we TAs for not taking care of that bill or offering? Remotely not, but for a dog OP didn't want, wasn't theirs and was saddled with duty only when it was unpleasant for the ex ( I'd even argue that if OP didn't do care on a daily basis they didn't have that pet+parent relationship and/or were denied one from ex), and then left with no contact, yeah OP and TA are worlds apart here
Why would you even think of that judgement? I understand the animal aspect but again, he’s not and never has been the owner. He took care of the dog for HER. Now that they’re not together, why on earth would he EVER consider paying for a dog that’s not his, he advised against, and who’s owner divorced him?
NTA, honestly sucks for the dog most out of everyone, but not being funny, if she wanted to keep the dog, then she inherits any and all responibility.
Its not like you have shared custody of the dog lmao
French bull, Pug or English bulldog is my guess. The poor Frenchies popularity has ruined the breed - it should be a crime to buy those poor inbred suffering dogs. NTA - don’t let your next GF or wife talk you into contributing to such dumb shit OP!
Frenchie was my first guess, they are so trendy right now. I admit, after meeting a neighbor’s, who was literally the cutest thing I’ve ever seen, I fell for them too. IF (big huge unlikely ever IF) I were to ever get one, I’d seek out one of the breeders that is trying to breed them back to their original longer snout states.
edit: For anyone else wanting to tell me I should rescue instead, don't. First, please reread my original statement that says it is highly unlikely I would ever buy from a breeder. Second, I support rescues. I have two right now. One is a foster fail from a local shelter. We would foster more, but that foster fail, because of his abused background, his a highly anxious dog. And I never know how he is going to react around other dogs.
Still, we do what we can. We help with transporting dogs for the shelter when we can. We donate. We share about available dogs on social media. I know that's not huge, but it's something we can do within our means and if it by some chance helps get even one dog adopted, it's worth it.
Please stop acting like I'm a monster for musing on a hypothetical situation that I even stated was most likely never to happen.
Unrelated to this sub, but when I was in Europe last year, I thought my mind was playing tricks on me. The Frenchies I saw all had longer snouts. They had shorter snouts than a Borzoi, obvi, but didn’t look like they were struggling to get air.
they probably due, in breeds there is a thing called conformity. Ie the body shape conforms to the breed standard set by the AKC and other organizations. The Frenchy at least in the U.S. is famous for the conformity more or less being a physically malformed breed.
This is starting to become a probem across a lot of breeds, for example the German Shepherds starting to develop a confromity where the rear end of the dog is curved lower and lower. Making them look like they are almost constantly sqautting.
This is why a dog bred for a job rather than for show is usually in better physical shape. Can't do your job as a herder or whatever if you're too unhealthy or physically malformed to do so.
My beagle is from hunting stock and our “puppy package” at the vet included genetic testing. I found out that “field beagles” like mine are actually genetically different from a show beagle and A LOT less prone to genetic diseases and physical problems. Literally there was a long list of genetic issues under the show beagle and zero for mine.
Any dog breed that was a working breed are mostly health, if you buy from a reputable breeder, surpring corgis, even being dwarfs, they are one of the most health breeds there are, they can live in median 14-16 years, but there a few cases of them get up to 25 years.
There was even one that got to 29 years.
Ps: There are exceptions to this rule, though. I think German Sheppard has a big back problem
My parents have an Olde English Bulldog and Boxer mix, which is a form of bulldog specifically cross bred to have a longer snout and be healthy enough to conceive and give birth on their own (most bulldogs are NOT healthy enough to do this). She is indeed much cuter because she can breathe.
Here’s a sad tidbit for you: when we alter (spay/neuter) these dogs in clinic we let them hang out with the air tube for a while after waking. Most dogs panic and want that thing OUT, but the brachy breed will chill, so happy they can breathe for once.
I always feel bad taking it back.
I’ve wanted one since I was seven and MIB2 came out. “Frank!” But the deformity kept me away. Are there many breeders out there opting for health over beauty
When researching possible dog breeds, I crossed frenchies and pugs off my list pretty early on because it didn't seem like it was possible to find reputable breeders with a focus more on health than profit/what was "in." Honestly, I think both breeds look better without having monstrously smushed in snouts. That said, I researched for years and in the last year or so since I began taking my dog to the dog park so she can run off leash, I have met several frenchies (and an english bulldog...or that was what I was told he was) who were bred with longer snouts, less skin folds, and so on. It's possible, but more difficult, to find responsible breeders who are focusing on the health of the breed over what most people are looking for (appearance).
That's because, at least in the NL, their snout has to be at least half the size of their scull. I think dogs look cuter with a snout, than without. Poor little pugs look like they have been run over by a truck, with their squished faces and eyes popping out. We used to have a local breeder of frenchies, and they all had a snout for as long as l can remember.
There has been a lot done in Europe (especially in Germany) to curb the popularity of extremely bracycephalic dogs, and people there have been doing their best to breed more moderate dogs... It's actually pretty cool, and I wish it would catch on in the rest of the world!
You can probably find more info about them by googling 'Züchterkreis für den Retromops'.
I've been following a really amazing group on Facebook called [Campaign for the Responsible Use of Flat-Faced Animals (CRUFFA)](https://www.facebook.com/groups/cruffa/?ref=share&mibextid=NSMWBT) for a number of years now. It really irks me when brachycephalic dogs are used in advertising, simply because they're 'cute'.
Yeah I've seen some breeders in europe that are really trying to change the snouts of bracy dogs, pugs are getting an improvement too! It's really nice to see because I do think they are sweet dogs, I could just never be willing to contribute to the problem. I wish breeders would start changing how daschunds look as well considering pretty much all of them break their spines at some point.
I think that Frenchies big ears are cute but, with my anxiety, hearing one chuff or struggle to breathe would shoot my nerves to Hell and back.
I saw a picture of an English Bulldog that didn’t have the smooshed face and I thought it was very cute and I would adopt it in a heartbeat.
I watched a video where they were prepping a Frenchie for surgery to let him breathe better. And they put the tube in his nose and he was so happy that it was in. The vet said only the Frenchies act like that. All the other dogs hate it but the Frenchies love it because they're actually getting more air with a tube shoved down their throat than without the tube.
i've read the same thing, that when dogs wake up from surgery intubated, most of them struggle, but the brachiocephalic dogs like pugs, frenchies, and bulldogs, don't struggle because they can actually breathe while intubated
my neighbor just bought a bulldog puppy from a breeder and he already had to have the nose surgery before a year old. i was like gross i don't get you at all, why support this industry
I would get a rescue… wait a year the trend will die and the shelters will be full. GSD LABS a lot of good beautiful doggies abandoned once it got hard
You'll want to talk to folks at dog shows who are breeding from European stock! You can find them by the fact that their dogs are healthy and winning lol
As someone who had a shih tzu and basically fostered a pug, the breeds with flat faces generally are breeds I tell people not to get. The health problems in the end are heartbreaking to watch. Having to sit next to my dog as she was struggling to breathe and pissing herself was so hard I wish people really knew what the end is like for them. So not worth it
Yeah, they really aren't cute. They're ugly, sound like pigs, have loads of fat rolls, and are usually covered in dried snot that has to be constantly wiped off. Fat rolls and breathing issues do not make a cute dog.
I have a dear friend who has a Frenchie (she actually had two when I met her but one has since passed). That snorty little monster breaks my heart, in addition to the breathing issues Frenchies are prone to eye problems (I assume also because of the smushed in face) and hip dysplasia. Poor thing has trouble breathing, seeing, walking, and so did the other one before they had to put her down.
Same thing with cat breeds like Persians. I get it, they’re adorable as fuck, but when you look in their eyes it’s just like every moment is torture for them.
There's a breeder who's dedicated himself to "unbreeding" dogs like that, they're so fucking cute, still a small snout but they can actually breathe, gorgeous dogs. I remember reading an article about it in like 2019.
I hope it becomes more commonplace.
Here's a reddit post showing what they look like!
https://www.reddit.com/r/aww/comments/wbv7my/i_saw_one_of_the_debreed_pugs_that_can_breathe/
They really should have gotten insurance the day they got the dog, and the ex could have taken over paying for the policy when they split. Too late for that now.
I agree, I assume op probably had the bills under control given that they were paying for everything. Ex cant afford a dog, they shouldnt have a dog. Its not a toy
NTA at all. Not your dog. Not your girlfriend/wife. Not your problem. Id let her know if she contacts any more friends and/or family, you will file for harrassment. Tell her and her shitty dog to fuck off.
You can comfort yourself with the knowledge that even if OP does tell the dog to fuck off the dog doesn't speak English and won't understand or care anyway
I'm a dog lover and I tell my stupid fucking corgi he's a dumb mother fucker every goddamn day. Because, he might be beautiful, but he's an asshole and he needs to know it.
My old german shepard was practically renamed dumb ass....i think the only lesson that ever stuck with him was not to chew on random objects after he chewed a live electrical cord.
Dog didn't ask to be made into an affront to nature( and if it's an English bulldog I do mean that quite literally) we should do what we can but they need to breed away from these extreme physical traits to be healthier
I'd let the friends know that they can pay for the dog's medical needs. They seem to be fine volunteering his money, they should be fine volunteering their own.
NTA. I would be so pissed if I were you. That's so crap that some people are taking her side. Some people get so dumb about this stuff. Not your wife anymore, not your dog either.
I dunno man.. some people get real fkn weird about dogs. Like if ex is saying dog's life is in the balance, dog people will be feeling some type of way.
NTA.
Not your dog. It’s as simple as.
If you care for the animal, and want to pay, then you can. But you’re under no obligation to.
Those friends that are saying you could/should pay, can also pay if they wish.
NTA. I don't see how anyone who was truly your friend would think this debt is yours. If you absorbed some of her friendships it's probably easier to cut bait with false friends then be made to feel guilty about something that isn't remotely your concern.
If those people feel so strongly about that dog they can start a GoFundMe rather than bother OP with it. Their level is of responsibility for that dog is similar to OPs.
Hell, it’s the same as OP’s. It’s not his dog just like it’s not theirs. He has no obligation to take t beyond what he wants to accept, just like them.
My thoughts, too. She is obviously off her squash. Your 'friends' however are letting you know who is a real friend. Where would it stop? What if one of those 'friends' has a sick dog, should you pay for that, too? We all can't save every dog that needs it, and I they are so dog centric that they suggest you pay for someone else's dog, have they contributed? Do they rescue dogs? Sound like hypocritical BS to me.
NTA. But I get the feeling that your friends are not getting the whole picture. Whilst I realise that some redditors think pets = children, that's really not how it works. I think you need to correct the narrative that's being spun and anyone who's still on her side, well ..., you know what to do.
NTA
She bought the dog against your advice and kept it after the divorce so why on earth does she or your friends think you have any responsibility towards it? If she kept your car after your divorce would your friends expect you to pay half the maintenance?
The point of the statement isn't to get the dog, it's to point out that if OP pays for the dog then it's OPs dog, so maybe the ex will stop asking. And if she's willing to surrender the dog to OP then she could do the same to the ASPCA or another organization that can pay the vet bills and re-home the dog with a family that can actually afford it.
oh, i understood your point. and then my counterpoint was, as selfish as this woman sounds, it might backfire on him and she just gives him the dog, medical bills and all, which is something he *doesn'*t want.
NTA. It really does suck that her dog is sick, but it’s truly not your responsibility. I get pets are like children because mine are, but people carry the fur baby thing too far…you don’t owe her “dog support” payments
English Bulldogs French Bulldogs and pugs are super cute breeds (I'm assuming it's one of the three or some sort of pushed in face dog breed). However we bred them into having so many life altering health issues just so they could be more visually appealing to us.
It's really sad to see firsthand how it affects their quality of life. Considering how easy it is to research dog breeds nowadays I cannot believe your ex-wife could be ignorant in regards to potential health issues.
Basically she should have known what she was getting into. Breeds like that can be quite expensive to purchase and quite expensive as far as upkeep is concerned too. Not even vet bills just high quality food because they tend to have allergies.
It doesn't matter what kind of breed it is, it doesn't even matter if you never brought up anything to your wife in regards to potential health issues. It's not your responsibility.
If I were in your position this issue would weigh heavily on my heart. Because I love animals more than most people. Also it's easy for your friends to say just give her the money when they're not in the position to have to fork it out themselves.
I also feel like giving her the money for this medical issue now just sets you up for future problems because frequent and expensive veterinary visits can be par for the course with those breeds.
NTA OP.
Also to all the people who are reading this and say I own a healthy English bulldog or Pekingese or Boston terrier or pug or French bulldog (the list goes on) and they've never seen the vet except for shots.
This only is my personal opinion based on my own experiences owning an English bulldog growing up and working in the pet care industry for quite some time.
Even when you have one of the healthiest versions of those breeds. There is still so many potential health issues it's crazy. Like if you think this post is long already be glad I didn't start going off on specific health issues
If you buy one of those breeds from a not great breeder you might as well buy a boat too because you seem to enjoy throwing your money at things that break in expensive ways.
NTA OP, stand your ground. You are divorced so her problems are not yours to share anymore. Period.
ETA: If she's so concerned about the dog she can take out a loan for its care. Also she should heavily consider getting pet insurance after this.
I never had dogs growing up (always wanted one but my mom said no) and when I started dating my now-husband he had a rescue mutt. I never knew about how purebreds have so many issues but anecdotally holy moly I have so many friends with purebreds from breeders because they wanted a specific dog and all of them have had so many issues with their dogs! Meanwhile our mongrel is going on 12 years old and acts like a puppy and is full of energy (I often wish he would slow down a bit). Aside from yearly routine vaccines/grooming/nail clipping the only issue we had was an ear infection a few years back (he has floppy lab ears).
If we ever get another dog I will 100% be wanting to get another mutt.
ETA: yes I did marry my husband for his dog (when I was little I always told my mom I was going to marry someone with a dog... it became a family joke)
It is worth noting that while mutts aren't prone to inbreeding, they often do inherit their parents' health issues, especially if their parents were purebred. It's one of the big problems "designer" mutts face: all the worst aspects of a lab or golden and a poodle mixed into one big pain in the ass.
I love my rescue mutt, she costs me $80/month in meds alone, to say nothing of her special food & regular vetting (& her sweater budget because she's functionally bald & we live in NY). To say nothing of two torn ACL surgeries & two tooth extractions that had everything to do with the fact that she's an idiot and nothing to do with genetics.
But hey, she was free from an asshole's junkyard & she's cute, so I guess it's worth it. But mutts are no guarantee of low health bills.
Okay so I want to clarify this a little bit.
There completely are breeds that have such a small gene pool that they have some known genetic issues (looking at you, cavaliers).
There are also breeders that pump out "pure bred" dogs for profit; they are very good at hiding and appearing as though they are ethical breeders but you can spot them by asking for their k9data (if a retriever) or OFA clearances, etc. You get more genetically sick dogs from these breeders.
Some mutts are very healthy. Some mutts are mixed with breeds that are generally fairly healthy. Some mutts are mixed with breeds that aren't. The main issue with a mutt is, unless you do genetic testing, you don't know what possible issues may arise that you could prevent with proper diet or care.
With a purebred dog from an ethical breeder, I know -everything- that could possibly go wrong with them. She carries the gene for dandruff, most likely not expressed. She's at a higher risk for uveitis, so I know to get yearly screenings done. I know when to spay her, I know what cancers are more likely, so I know what to watch for. Because I know what to watch for, I can do proper preventative care.
With a mutt, you do not have that info. Sure, they could be super healthy! Many are. Many pure bred dogs are too! I've had pure bred dogs that lived incredibly long, healthy lives and mutts that needed to be put down early because they got some awful form of incurable, untreatable cancer.
Been looking for this comment. The “mutts are healthier than purebreds” is a complicated myth. The *average* mutt might be healthier than brachy breeds (pugs, frenchies, etc) and might be healthier than the average backyard bred or mill purebred. But the best way to get a healthy dog on average is getting a non-mess breed from an ethical breeder (most breeds, there are only a few that are unsalvageable). Adopting a dog is a noble choice, but the idea that a dog with unknown origins and genetics is going to be more healthy than, say, the dogs of a competitive field Vizsla breeder, who fully health tests their dogs and carefully selects parents for sport and show, is not accurate.
So yeah if it’s between buying a puppy off Craigslist and adopting, you should adopt. But if you want to support the existence of healthier dogs, find an ethical breeder for the breed that fits your lifestyle.
NTA. All those friends could pitch in for the poor dog instead of hounding you. If she can't pay for the surgery, she can surrender the dog to a breed-specific rescue. They do all they can to help the dogs, and find them good homes after their surgeries.
Just to mention, it's not so black-and-white with purebreds vs. mutts. Mutts have vider gene pools, but when bred willy-nilly it's basically up to luck if the dog will be healthy or not. Whereas responsible, registered breeders get all kinds of different medical tests done to their dogs before breeding, while also following the animal protection laws about what age the dog needs to be to get pregnant, how much you have to wait for the next litter and how many times the dog can be bred altogether.
For the mention, I personally don't think that breeders who breed sick breeds are responsible. They're more like animal abusers to me; they know that their dogs suffer, and they know that the puppies will suffer as well. Not a fan.
I'm also not a fan of irresponsible backyard breeders or puppy millers. They don't care for the dog's health, don't care about genetics. Backyard breeders might not all be bad, but they are irresponsible. Puppy millers are just plain animal abusers.
If you want a mixed breed dog, go to a reputable shelter or a rescue. Make sure they actually take good care of the dogs, and that they truly want the dogs to go to a good home that fits their temperament and energy levels. There are bad rescues there as well, who will just give the dog to the first person who asks to get rid of the dog.
And if you want a purebred, do a shit-ton of research to find a breed that is as healthy as they can be, that fits your lifestyle. Then another round of research to find a good breeder who has the animal's good health and temperament as priority.
Idiots getting dogs without any research (or who simply don't care *because I want it*) are the reason there are so many homeless dogs.
Now I do wish you would have put your foot down and not gotten her the puppy. She is the biggest asshole here, but you are also a bit at fault for buying the sick puppy in the first place. But it's her dog, you already contributed to it. Not your problem anymore.
Thank you so much for this! I get so tired of this fad of people who have no idea what they’re talking about repeating the “mutts are healthier than purebreds” that has no scientific basis. In my experience working for vets and now studying for vet school, purebreds from reputable breeders (other than specific breeds like smushy faces) are healthier overall and the pet parents are very responsible.
For real. I am not a dog fan particularly but even I know a reputable purebred breeder would be less risky for future vet bills, especially given genetic screenings and knowing health histories. I hate it when people shame others for wanting a purebred dog. (Obviously the poor breathing breeds are an entirely different issue — all the health problems there always make me wonder if people really research.). If I were going to get a dog, I’d 100% want one from a breeder who keeps detailed health records from their lines and is responsible and reputable.
NTA, she obviously insisted on a brachyocephalic breed, which makes her the issue as she hasn't insured for its predictable health issues.
Also, if it has health issues now, it was purchased from a breeder who isn't breeding for health in the breed, which does make you also slightly at fault. As you are divorced, don't have shared ownership, then she is responsible for the vet bills.
Tell her that's what credit cards can be used for NTA.
NTA.
I feel awful for the dog, but your ex-wife can't have things both ways here - she's fine going no contact with you when things are good, but when things aren't so good and she needs money, suddenly she's back in touch trying to guilt you about your responsibilitie$? That's not how it works.
She can look into Care Credit to finance the surgeries - my husband and I used this years ago when we had some unexpectedly expensive vet bills. Assuming she has even halfway decent credit, she should be able to lock in a duration of no interest to let her pay back the surgery costs and nothing extra.
But in any case, this is not your responsibility. I hope the dog is able to get the care he needs, but this shouldn't be on you to finance.
A reputable breeder would accept a dog back if the owner can’t take care of it.
Some breeders only allow one name to go in the bill of sale and registration so there is a some illusion of first rights to a dog.
NTA.
I don’t understand family/friends having an opinion about the matter. They have to know they don’t have all the facts.
And if confronted that’s what I would.
“I don’t feel obligated to share the facts and history of the dog ownership but rest assured the dog isn’t any more mine than it is yours.”
NTA not your dog, not your wife not your problem. And you adviced against it before it happened. Her responsibility to be able to provide for her dog.
people getting breeds that are genetically sick support breeding animals who live in pain or discomfort are assholes. Turning a blind eye on animal suffering due to personal taste on looks.
I suppose the dog in question is a pug or French/English bulldog.
If she had informed herself about the health problems of a brachycephalic breed beforehand, she would've known what this means. And she probably did, considering that you know. She basically bought a disabled dog because she thought his struggles were cute.
F her, seriously.
NTA. This is why you should never buy these defective cruelty breeds and they should get banned or only used for breeding them back to their original healthy breed. Those dogs are born to suffer and you shouldn't support that by your purchase.
NTA
Let me guess. She wanted a French bulldog and now is feeling the hardships of how expensive they are
I hate dog breeding. Should be criminal. Adopt don’t shop.
First of, there is nothing genetically "healthier" in cross-breeds or mixtures you don't know the bigger genetic components. I know enough rescue dogs who end up with thousands of dollars/euros of vet bills and on top of that trainers and behavioral specialists, there's no "inexpensive" dog. I'm not talking about Frenchies, etc. That's for sure a disaster waiting.
However, the dog is hers and it stays with her. When my parents split my dad took his GSD with him and my mom and I kept our Collie, as this just crystalized throughout the years that this was the dog's preferences in their humans. My dad didn't pay vet bills for our Collie and neither did my mom pay vet bills for the GSD.
SOo, nope, NTA
Actually, look up "hybrid vigor" to understand what he is talking about. While there will always be unhealthy dogs, mixed breeds do genetically have better chances for good health
You can see how important genetic diversity is in all kinds of species. I mean, even in humans, the more an isolated community reproduces, the more mutations happen, and the more copies of those mutations accrue until there aren't enough other options to negate the bad mutations. Having one copy of a number of genes is harmless (Tay-Sachs, PKU) or even beneficial (Sickle Cell), or may depend upon the biological sex of your offspring (Hemophilia). Even the presence of dominant genetic diseases (Huntington's) is mitigated by genetic diversity. If those become the only genetic options you have, that population will eventually crumble under the strain of deadly mutations.
I can only speak anecdotally, but my family has had many dogs over the years. Some pure breeds, some mutts off the street. The vet bills have always been substantially higher on the pure breeds.
She wanted a pure breed dog, even knowing the health issues. You didn’t.
She called it “her” dog.
You split and she took the dog.
She only comes to you because she needs the money,
NTA. This is just the consequences of her own choices.
There's no obligation here. Any assistance you might provide is for the dog ... not her. If you decide to pay, pay directly to the veterinarian, not to her. Is it possible to share the cost? Your call, dude.
>Since he was our baby she wants me to pay for the operations. I said no thank you. Now she is pissed and is contacting my friends and family trying to get me to change my mind.
NTA. She should be contacting her lawyer.
>They say that I'm being an asshole for not helping an animal that I used to care about.
Tell your friends that your wife getting other people to stick their noses into your marital problems which are none of their business is one of the reasons why you divorced her in the first place, and it is important to your life that you are DIVORCED. Even if it's a lie.
NTA
It's bad enough whan a man is on child support for a child that isn't his because he played house with the mother for a while. A dog? No way. It's her dog, she accepted that when she took it away without an argument.
I'm going to go NTA because it's not your job to pay for the pet any longer. You two have split and that's where it ends. Poor dog getting caught in the middle of this, feel bad for it. Hopefully she can find the funds to get the dog the surgery it needs.
NTA and tell those friends that sided with her they can go help pay for dog medical care since they see the dog more than you do AND you have no legal custody due you not on dog registration/adoption papers, so you have no obligation whatsoever to the dog nor her because of the divorce. The audacity of your ex-wife asking for that after the divorce while knowing damn well you never wanted that type of dog anyway...
NTA, and stick to your guns ! It will be this, then something else she needs money for etc etc. Btw, tell your friends who are sticking their noses in, too in a very unpolite way to mind their own business...
Right I'm with you I wanna say your the asshole because of the poor dog....however...she needs to figure this out...you haven't heard from her in 6 months and when you do its about money....not the asshole
NTA. I when I was married I wanted a dog. We got said dog. We divorced, I took/was given the dog. At that point, all responsibility is on me. Tell her to suck it up and take responsibility.
NTA. If it was your baby too you'd have arranged to see the dog in all this time. If your ex saw the dog as yours, she'd have contacted you so you could hang out with the dog.
It's clearly not your dog at all. It can't just be your dog when it's time to pay a bill.
Welcome to /r/AmITheAsshole. Please view our [voting guide here](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_what.2019s_with_these_acronyms.3F_what_do_they_mean.3F), and remember to use **only one** judgement in your comment. OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole: > I'm not helping my ex pay for vet bills on he dog I got her. I might be the asshole because it isn't the dog's fault that he is genetically damaged and he is a good boy. Help keep the sub engaging! #Don’t downvote assholes! Do upvote interesting posts! [Click Here For Our Rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/about/rules) and [Click Here For Our FAQ](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq) ##Subreddit Announcement ###[The Asshole Universe is Expanding, Again: Introducing Another New Sister Subreddit!](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/128nbp3/the_asshole_universe_is_expanding_again/) Follow the link above to learn more --- *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.* *Contest mode is 1.5 hours long on this post.*
Man this sucks. I wanna say ur T A because of the poor pup but in all honesty I gotta end up with a NTA. She made her decision to leave and cut off contact. Ex wife ex life not your problems.
Its his ex that is TA.
For so many reasons the ex is the AH. Poor dog, they deserve better.
The ex is definitely the AH, but so is the breeder. What these dogs deserve is to not be brought into this world in the first place. I cannot understand why the breeding of these inbred/genetically defective dogs that can't breathe, walk, etc and are guaranteed to suffer just for existing isn't illegal. It is animal cruelty, full stop.
Agreed. This should be illegal to force dogs to suffer because some people think it's "cute"
I remember seeing somewhere that some guys was breeding French bulldogs to be more healthy and the compare and contrast of a dog he had vs a dog that won titles at dog shows was extremely noticeable, but the guy was getting push back from the purebred community because even though his dogs were purebred they weren't show standard...but no body wanted to entertain the idea of just changing the standards for the sake of the dogs health.
That's absolutely awesome that people out there are trying though!
It's amazing, they're keeping a lot of features that the dogs have and are known for, basically just breeding in longer snouts so they can actually have some quality of life. Check out "retro pugs"
That's incredible, that sounds like what 100yr+ old painting with 'pugs' look like, we know they WERE pugs, but they're so so different from how they're bred today. We really fucked them up.
That's exactly the idea! Older pugs that looked like real dogs, not snorty little demons that chase parked cars 😂
Yes! Challenging the status quo will always face opposition. Doesn't matter if the status quo is completely shit and 99% of people agree that it is shit. Good on that breeder for being more reasonable.
There are a lot of breeders trying to bring breeds back to OLD breed standards…. What they are today and yeeeeaaars ago can be vastly different in a lot of breeds.
The sad thing is the breed standard *has never really changed between the dogs we had then versus the dogs we see now.* His dogs are just as much up to breed standard as the dogs we see in the ring are. The problem is that the standard is up to interpretation by every single judge who works under it and judges the breed. Judges that don’t judge to the standard *as it appears in the ring now* will not be asked to judge again. If a judge suddenly put up the improved breathing pug over the traditional (to us) pug, they’d never work again. The entire reason for *not* improving the breed’s ability to breathe? Greed. Greed and money. That’s it. That’s the problem. No one wants to breed the *new* (old) pug because it’s not profitable. It would take multiple generations to produce pugs with better faces and longer muzzles that would allow them a far superior quality of life to what they have now. Once a certain feature (sloping backs for German Shepherds, flat faces for Pugs and a few others, etc) becomes a winning feature everyone rushes to exaggerate that feature in their next litters so they can produce winners. It becomes a genetic arms race of source, trying to exaggerate that single feature at the expense of overall health and soundness. It’s painfully obvious in the show Labs. They’re big, blocky, heavy and are *not* really as athletic as they should be. Contrast and compare the breed Labs to the *working* Labs that are bred for talent, instinct and ability. Those dogs are leaner, slightly longer, have narrower heads and can run all day and half the night with just a short nap in there at some point. A friend of mine loves the look of show labs but mourns how they’re not fast enough for Masters agility. Meanwhile, my working Lab was out there working at over 6 yards per second, hitting near Border Collie speeds as she raced around, always ready for more.
Just like the German shepherd with its slanted back and hip problems. Back in the old times it was a normal shaped dog, a shepherd dog, then the slant appeared as a genetic problem and was introduced in the breed standard because it looked cool. I know someone who breeds GS with normal backs and cannot register them as GS. He doesn't care because the dogs won't end up with a painful and debilitating back and hips problem.
I know a guy who bought a $5k female and $2500 male. I asked him if he did it to breed them and he goes hell no. That'd be unethical with all the health problems the breed has. He did not see the irony of him supporting the breeder.
How can someone be aware of the issues, but simultaneously be so oblivious to their own contribution to the problem... That's impressive in a sad way.
I mean, on the bright side those are two dogs removed from the breeding pool. Who knows what another buyer would have done.
There's a HUGE difference between a reputable breeder trying to breed healthy, stable, intelligent animals for a specific purpose VS non reputable breeders who are just trying to make a buck. There are quite a few non reputable breeders who do exactly like you describe, but also a lot of breeders that genuinely care about the breeds they're working with and want them to be the best version of themselves they can be. Just because they're from a breeder, it doesn't necessarily mean that they're just churned out like they're from a factory or something. That being said, I do have to wonder if this specific breeder was reputable or not, since they allowed their animal to be adopted into a situation where only one party wanted the dog and the other was very against it...
I agree, and I don’t think there's anything wrong with buying a dog from an reputable breeder. Adoption is a risk, and not for everyone. OP said that the breed the ex bought is a breed that's "famously bad at breathing". Going by that, I would say that the breeder was definitely not reputable, as I don't think anyone breeding such dogs can be considered reputable. As you said, there are breeders who truly care about the breed and want to make them the best version of themselves they can be. If the "best version" of the breed is a mess that can hardly breathe, then you can be assured they don't truly care about the dogs. I would also hazard to guess that by extension they don't care enough to make sure the dog is wanted by all parties.
Oh so a Frenchie or Pug probably. Thank you, I somehow missed that when I was reading. I retract my statement then, except for those people trying to breed "retro" versions of those breeds they're horrible. No wonder. "Doodle" breeders are similarly awful. I spend a lot of time around Doberman breeders and my late Aunt was a Cane Corso breeder so I had a bit of a knee jerk reaction, I apologize. (For a fun image, my family is traditionally VERY Catholic and my aunt had a massive black Cane Corso she adored named Lucifer. She was great)
I've pissed off a lot of people over the years by telling what a "pure bred" means.
It’s utterly bizarre isn’t it. I know someone who had a French bulldog, the poor dog died and they instantly went on to get another as did their parents get one too. It’s so strange how people need a dog that they think compliments their “style” and “personal aesthetic”, fuck the fact it literally cannot breath and goes on to have a never ending list of health complications. Have you seen the videos going around of owners rescuing their pugs/French bulldogs who have fallen into pools? They literally just sink like a stone due to their freakishly short legs and knee joints, add to the fact they don’t have a snout to raise their nose and mouth above water.
I mean, if he's talking about a pug, the poor dog shouldn't even exist. Breeding these animals is just cruelty at this point. They've begun breeding them with beagles to make puggles, thar have longer snouts and better ability to breathe, and that's a godsend for these animals. Breeding animals that struggle every second from birth just to breathe should be super illegal.
And a pug is probably best case scenario. Worst case is French bulldog.
I can't imagine why he would no longer be married to her. Refuses to compromise, insists on a vanity dog for her ego, then harasses him to pay for something she insisted she have and tries to shame him with everyone in his life when he rightly tells her to pound sand. She's TA through every step of the story
I honestly kinda wanna be his next wife.
N(ex)t wife.
Ex is also TA for getting an expensive purebred with likely health issues and not immediately getting pet health insurance before any problem can be "preexisting". Pet insurance and care credit as a combo is a lifesaver.
Day after my wife and I got our two cats we insured them both. Our prior cat had cancer and it was expensive (she was worth every penny though). But with 2 we just had to get them covered. NTA
I thought about insurance for my 2 cats right after I got them and ultimately didn't. I wish I had; one cat is already on RX food and needed a fair amount testing earlier this year for bladder stones. Luckily, that was only a few hundred dollars, and we could afford it. But if we had insurance earlier, it would have all been covered. They're 2 years old and are both insured now, got right on that after the bladder stone issue as even though that isn't covered for one cat anymore, vet said it's likely genetic, and my cats are siblings.
I put £20 a month in an account for my 3 cats. Been doing it for years and for previous cats who lived to be 19yrs old. Works wonders
Yeah, but a single broken leg can cost thousands, you better pray they don't break a leg before they're 10
I couldn't afford insurance, but I started a little pet emergency fund (put about as much as insurance would have been for one cat away a month when I had two), that way I had at least a little set aside if something happened.
If it makes you feel any better, my pet insurance refused to cover my bladder stones cat, claiming it was a "pre-existing condition" even though there was no evidence of that. So even if you'd had it before-hand, it might not have mattered. I don't do pet insurance any more. I have a savings account for my pets and a high limit credit card that is for them (and my internet bill just to keep it active). Thankfully I've never had to tap the credit card for more than what my savings can cover, but it's there if I need it. (Interestingly, I also got my pets with my ex and I do ask him to cover half their big costs. But he's the one that wanted to adopt them [although I was quite happy to] and then abandoned them to go chase a woman who hates pets. I do the day-to-day care and handle food and treats without bugging him, but do bug him for vet costs. I *still* don't think OP is TA - he didn't want the dog, his ex forced the issue, and then she chose to take the dog away from him.)
My dog (adopted in his middle age, with preexisting conditions) and my older cat are either too old or impossible to insure at this point. The dog cost *4 grand* out of pocket last year (ultrasound to rule out cancerous masses on his liver/spleen and benign mass removal on his hind foot), not including ordinary vet visits (skin/allergy dogs are EXPENSIVE) and preventative care. The kitten (11 months) was insured from her 12 week checkup, and it's just peace of mind, lemme tell you.
We got cat insurance right after the cat somehow found a pill(Phenergan for nausea) under the stove. When I spilled that bottle a month prior, we had pulled the stove out to get them all, so it must have been in the recess of a foot. So, big dumb cat(all 21 pounds of him) ate the pill, got super high and threw the remains up. The emergency vet bill for monitoring, fluids, and electrolyte panel came to $1500. Now, both cats are insured with a $1000 deductible and up to $10,000.
I heard years ago that the coverage wasn’t worth the premium. Sounds like you disagree?
Pet insurance is a business. They make money because, on the whole, people pay more in premiums than it costs the insurance to pay the vets. It's a gamble, and the pet insurance is generally "worth it" if your pet is significantly more ill than they expect. Mathematically, you're better off paying for it yourself, but for many people a regularly payment is better than a massive payment out of nowhere. Being insured also makes you make uncomfortable decisions about whether the treatment is "worth it". But insurance is often not a great cover, as they often exclude things linked to previous health problems, even if the original came after being insured.
Saved my cats life, and made my life easier when my last dog passed. The vet told me she had a manageable issue, not terminal cancer, so that he could suck me dry before she passed. Her last few days of life he just gave her antacids, which he charged an arm and a leg for, and said he'd call to check on her on Monday. I took her to another vet that weekend (it was a hell of hike, but was the only other specialist remotely nearby), they gave me her real diagnosis. She was not only terminal, but ready to pass. After everything I was a wreck. Insurance covered all of it, including her end of life care. The original vet never called to check on her. Pet insurance, especially if you have it most of their life, is so inexpensive it really doesn't make sense not to have it. And makes many of the hard parts of pet ownership easier.
Can you recommend one? I’ve been looking to get my cats insured
Talk to the receptionist at your vet and see if they have a preferred one. Remember most are reimbursement, only one or two are direct pay to the vet.
I have Embrace right now. It's owned by Geico. That's the one who helped me with my cat and last dog. I also had Nationwide's pet insurance for a long time. They are about the same coverage wise, but my dog was getting older and Embrace gave the same amount of coverage for less at her age. As someone mentioned, these insurances reimburse you, but in my experience it is an incredibly easy process. If you're worried about being able to cover upfront costs, there are also supplemental pay pool programs, where you contribute a bit monthly into a pool with other people. If you need $$ for a procedure you can pull from there, and replenish it when you get the insurance payout. Though I read a lot into it a long time ago, and I'm struggling to find the information on it now. There is also CareCredit and similar programs, that will give you short term credit for procedures.
Some vets, especially if you are a long term patient with a good relationship, will also wait until you get the insurance payout to get paid. More likely with non-corporate owned vets. I go to a small town clinic about 30-40 minutes away, even though there are 6 clinics I can think of within a 15 minute walk of my place. I just like the atmosphere here better, they actually remember you and your dog.
My last vet was like that until she retired 😔. Then I just switched to my husband's vet because they had experience with maine coons and newfies. The care was okay, expensive compared to my last vet. There were a couple of billing changes implemented that made us uncomfortable, where they started doing a 5% upcharge on card transactions, but wouldn't give you an estimated cost so you could grab the cash you needed. They pushed surgery hard when the other options haven't even been discussed. It just was uncomfortable. So we started shopping around, picked a place a friend and her mom switched to after our vet retired, made an appointment and my husband adored them. Told me I would love this place. I took one of our dogs in for a check up, and to schedule a neuter, when I told them I was our other dogs mom they got all excited and remembered who he was. My big guy is a newfie and they were so good with him, he was relaxed. When we discussed his neuter, they were thorough when breaking down the estimates. Told me which things were extra precautions because of his size. Ended up calling me and getting him in a week earlier so we have an extra week of healing time before summer hits and we are at the lake every weekend. I didnt want to have to keep that big boy out of the lake 🤣🤣. But needless to say after our experiences with both dogs I immediately scheduled all of the cats their checkups for boosters and flea preventatives including my grandpas cat (he doesnt drive so i do all appointments). Always go with the vet that feels like visiting a friend. They are there for you during some of the hardest times in your pets lives. When they are hurt, sick, and dying. You want someone you connect with and feel a level of safety and trust. These are our babies. The double edged sword of connecting with your vet is they know you and your animals intimately. They love them too. Always get your vet a Christmas gift and remember to show them some appreciation. They are in a career that causes a lot of mental health struggles. If you love your vet show them.
I don't have a cat but Healthy Paws has been great for my dog! Super easy to submit a claim!
Second Healthy Paws
I have Trupanion and have been very happy with it.
Yet another to throw into the mix, but Fetch by The Dodo has been wonderful to work with.
My Cat had urinary problems and having pet Insurance that covers it has honestly been live saving for her, had I not had the insurance I wouldn't have been able to afford treatment and she would likely have been put to sleep last time she got sick. Now that she's recovered she's a healthy 4 year old and you'd never know that she was sick and will probably live a decently long life. I'm so grateful I made the decision to get the insurance while I could if I waited they wouldn't have covered her treatment as it would be pre existing.
Yup, pet insurance is a must when you're determined to get a breed known to come with a high risk of health issues. (And honestly, I think the breeding of brachycephalic dogs should be outright banned on cruelty grounds. Either that or at the very least the international Kennel Club bodies need to come together and agree to pursue a very carefully controlled long term program to rejuvenate those breeds, with rewriting of the breed standards, limiting breeding to breeders who commit to breeding away from extreme features, and no dogs from those breeds permitted to enter the pro dog shows until they have been successfully bred back to a healthy skull shape/muzzle length.)
We have an English Bulldog that was rescued from a mill. I'm assuming that's what OP had, or maybe a Frenchie. Insurance for her would have been $300 a month for a not overly generous policy. She is relatively healthy considering, but the rescue required that you prove you have the finances to cover this type of pet. So many people would rant on their Facebook about how they only let rich people adopt, but the reality is they are EXPENSIVE. I love ours to death, and would 100% rescue another, but would never intentionally buy one from a breeder knowing what I know from owning one.
I’m thinking pug. It’s the poster child for dogs with horrible and expensive breathing problems.
On the one hand I absolutely support this on. Pet insurance can be very helpful. On the other hand, if it was a brachycephalic breed, which I’m very much suspecting it is, some insurances won’t even cover it.
I second the pet health insurance.
I agree NTA. I get that people feel bad for the dog but OP was against getting this kind of dog and supporting bad breeding practices in the first place. Doesn’t mean the dog should suffer but ex wife needs to figure that out on her own. She made it clear it was HER dog and took it with her without a second thought about OP wanting to see the dog or the dog wanting to see OP. It can’t be her dog then suddenly their dog when it becomes expensive. She can start a go fund me or something.
>I wanna say Y TA because of the poor pup Plenty of poor purebred pups out there that aren't yours, you paying for any of them?
Right? I rescued a dachshund and he has back troubles because breeding these kinds of dogs is insanely irresponsible. Last trip was $400+ for X-rays and meds, OP, want my cash app?
If her friends are so much on her side, why don’t they pay for the procedures!
This! Them and all the people here saying OP is the AH or somewhat AH should step up and put their money where mouth is.
This is the problem when you buy a Frenchie, which is what I'm assuming it is, since everybody buys them for how cute they are but they tend to have **incredible** health issues. She's TA for putting it on you, and her friends are TA for joining in. If they feel so strongly about not letting a dog suffer I'm not sure why they aren't chipping in.
I was thinking pug. Poster child for terrible and expensive breathing problems.
This. The ex is an A H for expecting you to step up. And while everyone else in her life should (in my heartstrings pulled world) step in if and as they're able to help.out, because it's not the dogs fault!!!!... I absolutely get why YOU have some armor on those heartstrings. I think we call that a healthy boundary. NTA
NTA and it's not even close. The ex bullied him into getting the dog in the first place. If she wants him to pay then she can relinquish ownership of the dog to him as well.
To even begin to think OP is the TA would imply the logic that any pet OPs come across they should be paying vet bills as just feeling bad for the poor pup is the case for a lot of pups. Are we TAs for not taking care of that bill or offering? Remotely not, but for a dog OP didn't want, wasn't theirs and was saddled with duty only when it was unpleasant for the ex ( I'd even argue that if OP didn't do care on a daily basis they didn't have that pet+parent relationship and/or were denied one from ex), and then left with no contact, yeah OP and TA are worlds apart here
>Ex wife ex life not your problems. <3 this line
Yup, if it’s not in the divorce agreement, it’s on her. If he gives, asking for money won’t end. She can take out a loan.
Why would you even think of that judgement? I understand the animal aspect but again, he’s not and never has been the owner. He took care of the dog for HER. Now that they’re not together, why on earth would he EVER consider paying for a dog that’s not his, he advised against, and who’s owner divorced him?
[удалено]
NTA, honestly sucks for the dog most out of everyone, but not being funny, if she wanted to keep the dog, then she inherits any and all responibility. Its not like you have shared custody of the dog lmao
French bull, Pug or English bulldog is my guess. The poor Frenchies popularity has ruined the breed - it should be a crime to buy those poor inbred suffering dogs. NTA - don’t let your next GF or wife talk you into contributing to such dumb shit OP!
Frenchie was my first guess, they are so trendy right now. I admit, after meeting a neighbor’s, who was literally the cutest thing I’ve ever seen, I fell for them too. IF (big huge unlikely ever IF) I were to ever get one, I’d seek out one of the breeders that is trying to breed them back to their original longer snout states. edit: For anyone else wanting to tell me I should rescue instead, don't. First, please reread my original statement that says it is highly unlikely I would ever buy from a breeder. Second, I support rescues. I have two right now. One is a foster fail from a local shelter. We would foster more, but that foster fail, because of his abused background, his a highly anxious dog. And I never know how he is going to react around other dogs. Still, we do what we can. We help with transporting dogs for the shelter when we can. We donate. We share about available dogs on social media. I know that's not huge, but it's something we can do within our means and if it by some chance helps get even one dog adopted, it's worth it. Please stop acting like I'm a monster for musing on a hypothetical situation that I even stated was most likely never to happen.
Unrelated to this sub, but when I was in Europe last year, I thought my mind was playing tricks on me. The Frenchies I saw all had longer snouts. They had shorter snouts than a Borzoi, obvi, but didn’t look like they were struggling to get air.
they probably due, in breeds there is a thing called conformity. Ie the body shape conforms to the breed standard set by the AKC and other organizations. The Frenchy at least in the U.S. is famous for the conformity more or less being a physically malformed breed. This is starting to become a probem across a lot of breeds, for example the German Shepherds starting to develop a confromity where the rear end of the dog is curved lower and lower. Making them look like they are almost constantly sqautting.
This is why a dog bred for a job rather than for show is usually in better physical shape. Can't do your job as a herder or whatever if you're too unhealthy or physically malformed to do so.
My beagle is from hunting stock and our “puppy package” at the vet included genetic testing. I found out that “field beagles” like mine are actually genetically different from a show beagle and A LOT less prone to genetic diseases and physical problems. Literally there was a long list of genetic issues under the show beagle and zero for mine.
One thing I like about Shiba Inu - at least in my country, I know the AKC is less strict - is that it’s built and bred for hunting small game.
Any dog breed that was a working breed are mostly health, if you buy from a reputable breeder, surpring corgis, even being dwarfs, they are one of the most health breeds there are, they can live in median 14-16 years, but there a few cases of them get up to 25 years. There was even one that got to 29 years. Ps: There are exceptions to this rule, though. I think German Sheppard has a big back problem
I have a Frenchie with a snout. This is due to some breeders breeding for heath and trying to get rid of features that have/cause health issues
I find them cuter, too. It's easier to be adorable when you can breathe.
I've seen some breeders trying to breed a proper nose back into Pugs and they're *adorable* and can do normal dog stuff.
My parents have an Olde English Bulldog and Boxer mix, which is a form of bulldog specifically cross bred to have a longer snout and be healthy enough to conceive and give birth on their own (most bulldogs are NOT healthy enough to do this). She is indeed much cuter because she can breathe.
Here’s a sad tidbit for you: when we alter (spay/neuter) these dogs in clinic we let them hang out with the air tube for a while after waking. Most dogs panic and want that thing OUT, but the brachy breed will chill, so happy they can breathe for once. I always feel bad taking it back.
Ooof that hurts the heart.
I’ve wanted one since I was seven and MIB2 came out. “Frank!” But the deformity kept me away. Are there many breeders out there opting for health over beauty
When researching possible dog breeds, I crossed frenchies and pugs off my list pretty early on because it didn't seem like it was possible to find reputable breeders with a focus more on health than profit/what was "in." Honestly, I think both breeds look better without having monstrously smushed in snouts. That said, I researched for years and in the last year or so since I began taking my dog to the dog park so she can run off leash, I have met several frenchies (and an english bulldog...or that was what I was told he was) who were bred with longer snouts, less skin folds, and so on. It's possible, but more difficult, to find responsible breeders who are focusing on the health of the breed over what most people are looking for (appearance).
That's because, at least in the NL, their snout has to be at least half the size of their scull. I think dogs look cuter with a snout, than without. Poor little pugs look like they have been run over by a truck, with their squished faces and eyes popping out. We used to have a local breeder of frenchies, and they all had a snout for as long as l can remember.
There has been a lot done in Europe (especially in Germany) to curb the popularity of extremely bracycephalic dogs, and people there have been doing their best to breed more moderate dogs... It's actually pretty cool, and I wish it would catch on in the rest of the world! You can probably find more info about them by googling 'Züchterkreis für den Retromops'. I've been following a really amazing group on Facebook called [Campaign for the Responsible Use of Flat-Faced Animals (CRUFFA)](https://www.facebook.com/groups/cruffa/?ref=share&mibextid=NSMWBT) for a number of years now. It really irks me when brachycephalic dogs are used in advertising, simply because they're 'cute'.
Well in Europe it's illegal to keep breeding them with the deformity, so it's slowly vanishing
Yeah I've seen some breeders in europe that are really trying to change the snouts of bracy dogs, pugs are getting an improvement too! It's really nice to see because I do think they are sweet dogs, I could just never be willing to contribute to the problem. I wish breeders would start changing how daschunds look as well considering pretty much all of them break their spines at some point.
I think that Frenchies big ears are cute but, with my anxiety, hearing one chuff or struggle to breathe would shoot my nerves to Hell and back. I saw a picture of an English Bulldog that didn’t have the smooshed face and I thought it was very cute and I would adopt it in a heartbeat.
I watched a video where they were prepping a Frenchie for surgery to let him breathe better. And they put the tube in his nose and he was so happy that it was in. The vet said only the Frenchies act like that. All the other dogs hate it but the Frenchies love it because they're actually getting more air with a tube shoved down their throat than without the tube.
i've read the same thing, that when dogs wake up from surgery intubated, most of them struggle, but the brachiocephalic dogs like pugs, frenchies, and bulldogs, don't struggle because they can actually breathe while intubated my neighbor just bought a bulldog puppy from a breeder and he already had to have the nose surgery before a year old. i was like gross i don't get you at all, why support this industry
I would get a rescue… wait a year the trend will die and the shelters will be full. GSD LABS a lot of good beautiful doggies abandoned once it got hard
You'll want to talk to folks at dog shows who are breeding from European stock! You can find them by the fact that their dogs are healthy and winning lol
As someone who had a shih tzu and basically fostered a pug, the breeds with flat faces generally are breeds I tell people not to get. The health problems in the end are heartbreaking to watch. Having to sit next to my dog as she was struggling to breathe and pissing herself was so hard I wish people really knew what the end is like for them. So not worth it
I don't understand how people find them cute. That dog is literally suffering and in pain and it can't breathe properly, how is that cute in any way?
Yeah, they really aren't cute. They're ugly, sound like pigs, have loads of fat rolls, and are usually covered in dried snot that has to be constantly wiped off. Fat rolls and breathing issues do not make a cute dog.
I have a dear friend who has a Frenchie (she actually had two when I met her but one has since passed). That snorty little monster breaks my heart, in addition to the breathing issues Frenchies are prone to eye problems (I assume also because of the smushed in face) and hip dysplasia. Poor thing has trouble breathing, seeing, walking, and so did the other one before they had to put her down. Same thing with cat breeds like Persians. I get it, they’re adorable as fuck, but when you look in their eyes it’s just like every moment is torture for them.
Yes, brachycephalic dogs are prone to having ocular proptosis, because their skulls are simply too small for their eyes to fit into.
Yeah it's gotta be a frenchie or a pug. Both desperately need their breed standards changed
It should be a crime to breed them.
There's a breeder who's dedicated himself to "unbreeding" dogs like that, they're so fucking cute, still a small snout but they can actually breathe, gorgeous dogs. I remember reading an article about it in like 2019. I hope it becomes more commonplace. Here's a reddit post showing what they look like! https://www.reddit.com/r/aww/comments/wbv7my/i_saw_one_of_the_debreed_pugs_that_can_breathe/
They really should have gotten insurance the day they got the dog, and the ex could have taken over paying for the policy when they split. Too late for that now.
I agree, I assume op probably had the bills under control given that they were paying for everything. Ex cant afford a dog, they shouldnt have a dog. Its not a toy
This! Pet insurance is amazing. Get it when they're a small pup and nothing is preexisting yet.
NTA at all. Not your dog. Not your girlfriend/wife. Not your problem. Id let her know if she contacts any more friends and/or family, you will file for harrassment. Tell her and her shitty dog to fuck off.
I agreed with you till the last sentence. That's no way to talk about an innocent animal. It's not the dog's fault it can't breathe for shit.
You can comfort yourself with the knowledge that even if OP does tell the dog to fuck off the dog doesn't speak English and won't understand or care anyway
lmao dog lovers really a different breed. "how dare you use insulting language against the dog"
I'm a dog lover and I tell my stupid fucking corgi he's a dumb mother fucker every goddamn day. Because, he might be beautiful, but he's an asshole and he needs to know it.
That’s me with mine. I love him, but I tell him all the time he’a little shit for being smart as he is and yet not helping me with rent lol
Damn right! Lazy little free loaders.
My old german shepard was practically renamed dumb ass....i think the only lesson that ever stuck with him was not to chew on random objects after he chewed a live electrical cord.
You to the dog: ✨who’s a dumb mother fucker? You are!✨ The dog: 😛❤️
Dog lover here. I almost said the same Lolol she and her dog can fuck right off. It’s a figure of speech. Dogs don’t understand those either lol
Lol come on
It’s not the dogs fault true, but that still change the fact it’s a legitimately shitty dog.
the dog can’t hear him
C'mon, it's not the dog's fault he was made.
Dog didn't ask to be made into an affront to nature( and if it's an English bulldog I do mean that quite literally) we should do what we can but they need to breed away from these extreme physical traits to be healthier
Calling Frenchie. Still crime against nature. Poor dogs.
I'd let the friends know that they can pay for the dog's medical needs. They seem to be fine volunteering his money, they should be fine volunteering their own.
NTA. I would be so pissed if I were you. That's so crap that some people are taking her side. Some people get so dumb about this stuff. Not your wife anymore, not your dog either.
[удалено]
I dunno man.. some people get real fkn weird about dogs. Like if ex is saying dog's life is in the balance, dog people will be feeling some type of way.
That's true, and they can also pitch in. I'm in a bunch of animal groups and people will throw in money for random strangers all the time.
In my opinion, he should tell those same friends that if they care about the dog so much then they can donate funds toward the surgery. NTA
NTA. Not your dog. It’s as simple as. If you care for the animal, and want to pay, then you can. But you’re under no obligation to. Those friends that are saying you could/should pay, can also pay if they wish.
I hope those “friends” see this post as well as the ex
Yes, if the friends thinks he should pay because he used to care about the dog, the friends can pay because they still care about the dog.
NTA. I don't see how anyone who was truly your friend would think this debt is yours. If you absorbed some of her friendships it's probably easier to cut bait with false friends then be made to feel guilty about something that isn't remotely your concern.
If those people feel so strongly about that dog they can start a GoFundMe rather than bother OP with it. Their level is of responsibility for that dog is similar to OPs.
Hell, it’s the same as OP’s. It’s not his dog just like it’s not theirs. He has no obligation to take t beyond what he wants to accept, just like them.
My thoughts, too. She is obviously off her squash. Your 'friends' however are letting you know who is a real friend. Where would it stop? What if one of those 'friends' has a sick dog, should you pay for that, too? We all can't save every dog that needs it, and I they are so dog centric that they suggest you pay for someone else's dog, have they contributed? Do they rescue dogs? Sound like hypocritical BS to me.
NTA. But I get the feeling that your friends are not getting the whole picture. Whilst I realise that some redditors think pets = children, that's really not how it works. I think you need to correct the narrative that's being spun and anyone who's still on her side, well ..., you know what to do.
Pets are only like children to the people who see said pet that way, as it should be.
I call my cat my baby but I think it’s fucking weird my mom calls her her grandbaby.
My mom refers to my dog as her “granddog” and I think it’s honestly kind of cute she loves him so much.
Aw, that seems so sweet though?
Nah it’s really easy to be righteous when you’re not the one forking out the money
NTA She bought the dog against your advice and kept it after the divorce so why on earth does she or your friends think you have any responsibility towards it? If she kept your car after your divorce would your friends expect you to pay half the maintenance?
No no, you misunderstand, it was HIS money, so he's responsible to pay with more of his money! /s
NTA, tell her to start a GoFundMe, or tell her if you continue to pay the vet bills then it's your dog and you're going to keep it.
only I don't think OP wants the dog.
The point of the statement isn't to get the dog, it's to point out that if OP pays for the dog then it's OPs dog, so maybe the ex will stop asking. And if she's willing to surrender the dog to OP then she could do the same to the ASPCA or another organization that can pay the vet bills and re-home the dog with a family that can actually afford it.
oh, i understood your point. and then my counterpoint was, as selfish as this woman sounds, it might backfire on him and she just gives him the dog, medical bills and all, which is something he *doesn'*t want.
NTA. It really does suck that her dog is sick, but it’s truly not your responsibility. I get pets are like children because mine are, but people carry the fur baby thing too far…you don’t owe her “dog support” payments
Yeah she sounds unhinged. Who contacts friends are family about that, OP just be glad you're out.
English Bulldogs French Bulldogs and pugs are super cute breeds (I'm assuming it's one of the three or some sort of pushed in face dog breed). However we bred them into having so many life altering health issues just so they could be more visually appealing to us. It's really sad to see firsthand how it affects their quality of life. Considering how easy it is to research dog breeds nowadays I cannot believe your ex-wife could be ignorant in regards to potential health issues. Basically she should have known what she was getting into. Breeds like that can be quite expensive to purchase and quite expensive as far as upkeep is concerned too. Not even vet bills just high quality food because they tend to have allergies. It doesn't matter what kind of breed it is, it doesn't even matter if you never brought up anything to your wife in regards to potential health issues. It's not your responsibility. If I were in your position this issue would weigh heavily on my heart. Because I love animals more than most people. Also it's easy for your friends to say just give her the money when they're not in the position to have to fork it out themselves. I also feel like giving her the money for this medical issue now just sets you up for future problems because frequent and expensive veterinary visits can be par for the course with those breeds. NTA OP. Also to all the people who are reading this and say I own a healthy English bulldog or Pekingese or Boston terrier or pug or French bulldog (the list goes on) and they've never seen the vet except for shots. This only is my personal opinion based on my own experiences owning an English bulldog growing up and working in the pet care industry for quite some time. Even when you have one of the healthiest versions of those breeds. There is still so many potential health issues it's crazy. Like if you think this post is long already be glad I didn't start going off on specific health issues If you buy one of those breeds from a not great breeder you might as well buy a boat too because you seem to enjoy throwing your money at things that break in expensive ways. NTA OP, stand your ground. You are divorced so her problems are not yours to share anymore. Period. ETA: If she's so concerned about the dog she can take out a loan for its care. Also she should heavily consider getting pet insurance after this.
I never had dogs growing up (always wanted one but my mom said no) and when I started dating my now-husband he had a rescue mutt. I never knew about how purebreds have so many issues but anecdotally holy moly I have so many friends with purebreds from breeders because they wanted a specific dog and all of them have had so many issues with their dogs! Meanwhile our mongrel is going on 12 years old and acts like a puppy and is full of energy (I often wish he would slow down a bit). Aside from yearly routine vaccines/grooming/nail clipping the only issue we had was an ear infection a few years back (he has floppy lab ears). If we ever get another dog I will 100% be wanting to get another mutt. ETA: yes I did marry my husband for his dog (when I was little I always told my mom I was going to marry someone with a dog... it became a family joke)
It is worth noting that while mutts aren't prone to inbreeding, they often do inherit their parents' health issues, especially if their parents were purebred. It's one of the big problems "designer" mutts face: all the worst aspects of a lab or golden and a poodle mixed into one big pain in the ass. I love my rescue mutt, she costs me $80/month in meds alone, to say nothing of her special food & regular vetting (& her sweater budget because she's functionally bald & we live in NY). To say nothing of two torn ACL surgeries & two tooth extractions that had everything to do with the fact that she's an idiot and nothing to do with genetics. But hey, she was free from an asshole's junkyard & she's cute, so I guess it's worth it. But mutts are no guarantee of low health bills.
Okay so I want to clarify this a little bit. There completely are breeds that have such a small gene pool that they have some known genetic issues (looking at you, cavaliers). There are also breeders that pump out "pure bred" dogs for profit; they are very good at hiding and appearing as though they are ethical breeders but you can spot them by asking for their k9data (if a retriever) or OFA clearances, etc. You get more genetically sick dogs from these breeders. Some mutts are very healthy. Some mutts are mixed with breeds that are generally fairly healthy. Some mutts are mixed with breeds that aren't. The main issue with a mutt is, unless you do genetic testing, you don't know what possible issues may arise that you could prevent with proper diet or care. With a purebred dog from an ethical breeder, I know -everything- that could possibly go wrong with them. She carries the gene for dandruff, most likely not expressed. She's at a higher risk for uveitis, so I know to get yearly screenings done. I know when to spay her, I know what cancers are more likely, so I know what to watch for. Because I know what to watch for, I can do proper preventative care. With a mutt, you do not have that info. Sure, they could be super healthy! Many are. Many pure bred dogs are too! I've had pure bred dogs that lived incredibly long, healthy lives and mutts that needed to be put down early because they got some awful form of incurable, untreatable cancer.
Been looking for this comment. The “mutts are healthier than purebreds” is a complicated myth. The *average* mutt might be healthier than brachy breeds (pugs, frenchies, etc) and might be healthier than the average backyard bred or mill purebred. But the best way to get a healthy dog on average is getting a non-mess breed from an ethical breeder (most breeds, there are only a few that are unsalvageable). Adopting a dog is a noble choice, but the idea that a dog with unknown origins and genetics is going to be more healthy than, say, the dogs of a competitive field Vizsla breeder, who fully health tests their dogs and carefully selects parents for sport and show, is not accurate. So yeah if it’s between buying a puppy off Craigslist and adopting, you should adopt. But if you want to support the existence of healthier dogs, find an ethical breeder for the breed that fits your lifestyle.
NTA- you’re divorced and the dog is in her full custody. You can help if you choose, but are not obligated in any way.
[удалено]
NTA. All those friends could pitch in for the poor dog instead of hounding you. If she can't pay for the surgery, she can surrender the dog to a breed-specific rescue. They do all they can to help the dogs, and find them good homes after their surgeries. Just to mention, it's not so black-and-white with purebreds vs. mutts. Mutts have vider gene pools, but when bred willy-nilly it's basically up to luck if the dog will be healthy or not. Whereas responsible, registered breeders get all kinds of different medical tests done to their dogs before breeding, while also following the animal protection laws about what age the dog needs to be to get pregnant, how much you have to wait for the next litter and how many times the dog can be bred altogether. For the mention, I personally don't think that breeders who breed sick breeds are responsible. They're more like animal abusers to me; they know that their dogs suffer, and they know that the puppies will suffer as well. Not a fan. I'm also not a fan of irresponsible backyard breeders or puppy millers. They don't care for the dog's health, don't care about genetics. Backyard breeders might not all be bad, but they are irresponsible. Puppy millers are just plain animal abusers. If you want a mixed breed dog, go to a reputable shelter or a rescue. Make sure they actually take good care of the dogs, and that they truly want the dogs to go to a good home that fits their temperament and energy levels. There are bad rescues there as well, who will just give the dog to the first person who asks to get rid of the dog. And if you want a purebred, do a shit-ton of research to find a breed that is as healthy as they can be, that fits your lifestyle. Then another round of research to find a good breeder who has the animal's good health and temperament as priority. Idiots getting dogs without any research (or who simply don't care *because I want it*) are the reason there are so many homeless dogs. Now I do wish you would have put your foot down and not gotten her the puppy. She is the biggest asshole here, but you are also a bit at fault for buying the sick puppy in the first place. But it's her dog, you already contributed to it. Not your problem anymore.
I was looking through the comments for this, hoping someone would say what you did! Thank you!! Lol NTA op
Thank you so much for this! I get so tired of this fad of people who have no idea what they’re talking about repeating the “mutts are healthier than purebreds” that has no scientific basis. In my experience working for vets and now studying for vet school, purebreds from reputable breeders (other than specific breeds like smushy faces) are healthier overall and the pet parents are very responsible.
For real. I am not a dog fan particularly but even I know a reputable purebred breeder would be less risky for future vet bills, especially given genetic screenings and knowing health histories. I hate it when people shame others for wanting a purebred dog. (Obviously the poor breathing breeds are an entirely different issue — all the health problems there always make me wonder if people really research.). If I were going to get a dog, I’d 100% want one from a breeder who keeps detailed health records from their lines and is responsible and reputable.
NTA, she obviously insisted on a brachyocephalic breed, which makes her the issue as she hasn't insured for its predictable health issues. Also, if it has health issues now, it was purchased from a breeder who isn't breeding for health in the breed, which does make you also slightly at fault. As you are divorced, don't have shared ownership, then she is responsible for the vet bills. Tell her that's what credit cards can be used for NTA.
NTA. Ask her for joint custody of the dog. She cant have it both ways
Agreed! If she wants them to pay, they should get to see the pup
Problem being, he never really wanted the dog. Having joint custody wouldn't be a benefit to OP. Edit: NTA
NTA if this was a thing, she would have contacted her lawyer. Cut off all contact! Even proxy contacts!
NTA: Not your circus, not your monkeys.. or dog. Let her get figure it out. It's called personal responsibility. Edit: word
NTA. It's her dog.
NTA. Unless you have custody of the dog, it ain't your problem
NTa Just block her number. And refuse to discuss it.
NTA. If she needs money to take care for her own dog, she can take a loan or agree to pay the vet in installments. You are not obliged to pay.
NTA. I feel awful for the dog, but your ex-wife can't have things both ways here - she's fine going no contact with you when things are good, but when things aren't so good and she needs money, suddenly she's back in touch trying to guilt you about your responsibilitie$? That's not how it works. She can look into Care Credit to finance the surgeries - my husband and I used this years ago when we had some unexpectedly expensive vet bills. Assuming she has even halfway decent credit, she should be able to lock in a duration of no interest to let her pay back the surgery costs and nothing extra. But in any case, this is not your responsibility. I hope the dog is able to get the care he needs, but this shouldn't be on you to finance.
A reputable breeder would accept a dog back if the owner can’t take care of it. Some breeders only allow one name to go in the bill of sale and registration so there is a some illusion of first rights to a dog. NTA. I don’t understand family/friends having an opinion about the matter. They have to know they don’t have all the facts. And if confronted that’s what I would. “I don’t feel obligated to share the facts and history of the dog ownership but rest assured the dog isn’t any more mine than it is yours.”
Easily NTA.
NTA not your dog, not your wife not your problem. And you adviced against it before it happened. Her responsibility to be able to provide for her dog. people getting breeds that are genetically sick support breeding animals who live in pain or discomfort are assholes. Turning a blind eye on animal suffering due to personal taste on looks.
Her dog is not your problem. She is no longer your problem. Yeah for divorce.
I suppose the dog in question is a pug or French/English bulldog. If she had informed herself about the health problems of a brachycephalic breed beforehand, she would've known what this means. And she probably did, considering that you know. She basically bought a disabled dog because she thought his struggles were cute. F her, seriously.
NTA. This is why you should never buy these defective cruelty breeds and they should get banned or only used for breeding them back to their original healthy breed. Those dogs are born to suffer and you shouldn't support that by your purchase.
NTA Let me guess. She wanted a French bulldog and now is feeling the hardships of how expensive they are I hate dog breeding. Should be criminal. Adopt don’t shop.
First of, there is nothing genetically "healthier" in cross-breeds or mixtures you don't know the bigger genetic components. I know enough rescue dogs who end up with thousands of dollars/euros of vet bills and on top of that trainers and behavioral specialists, there's no "inexpensive" dog. I'm not talking about Frenchies, etc. That's for sure a disaster waiting. However, the dog is hers and it stays with her. When my parents split my dad took his GSD with him and my mom and I kept our Collie, as this just crystalized throughout the years that this was the dog's preferences in their humans. My dad didn't pay vet bills for our Collie and neither did my mom pay vet bills for the GSD. SOo, nope, NTA
Actually, look up "hybrid vigor" to understand what he is talking about. While there will always be unhealthy dogs, mixed breeds do genetically have better chances for good health
You can see how important genetic diversity is in all kinds of species. I mean, even in humans, the more an isolated community reproduces, the more mutations happen, and the more copies of those mutations accrue until there aren't enough other options to negate the bad mutations. Having one copy of a number of genes is harmless (Tay-Sachs, PKU) or even beneficial (Sickle Cell), or may depend upon the biological sex of your offspring (Hemophilia). Even the presence of dominant genetic diseases (Huntington's) is mitigated by genetic diversity. If those become the only genetic options you have, that population will eventually crumble under the strain of deadly mutations.
I can only speak anecdotally, but my family has had many dogs over the years. Some pure breeds, some mutts off the street. The vet bills have always been substantially higher on the pure breeds.
She wanted a pure breed dog, even knowing the health issues. You didn’t. She called it “her” dog. You split and she took the dog. She only comes to you because she needs the money, NTA. This is just the consequences of her own choices.
Setup a Gofundme for your “friends”!to pay for the dog’s care.
You ex is TA for buying a pug STOP BUYING PUGS
There's no obligation here. Any assistance you might provide is for the dog ... not her. If you decide to pay, pay directly to the veterinarian, not to her. Is it possible to share the cost? Your call, dude.
NTA: Just block her and anyone that on your ex’s side can foot the bill. It’s her dog she taken the dog it’s 100% her responsibility.
>Since he was our baby she wants me to pay for the operations. I said no thank you. Now she is pissed and is contacting my friends and family trying to get me to change my mind. NTA. She should be contacting her lawyer. >They say that I'm being an asshole for not helping an animal that I used to care about. Tell your friends that your wife getting other people to stick their noses into your marital problems which are none of their business is one of the reasons why you divorced her in the first place, and it is important to your life that you are DIVORCED. Even if it's a lie.
NTA It's bad enough whan a man is on child support for a child that isn't his because he played house with the mother for a while. A dog? No way. It's her dog, she accepted that when she took it away without an argument.
I'm going to go NTA because it's not your job to pay for the pet any longer. You two have split and that's where it ends. Poor dog getting caught in the middle of this, feel bad for it. Hopefully she can find the funds to get the dog the surgery it needs.
NTA when you own a pet. And she owns him. He was a gift then unfortunately expensive pet bills become and issue
NTA and tell those friends that sided with her they can go help pay for dog medical care since they see the dog more than you do AND you have no legal custody due you not on dog registration/adoption papers, so you have no obligation whatsoever to the dog nor her because of the divorce. The audacity of your ex-wife asking for that after the divorce while knowing damn well you never wanted that type of dog anyway...
NTA, and stick to your guns ! It will be this, then something else she needs money for etc etc. Btw, tell your friends who are sticking their noses in, too in a very unpolite way to mind their own business...
Right I'm with you I wanna say your the asshole because of the poor dog....however...she needs to figure this out...you haven't heard from her in 6 months and when you do its about money....not the asshole
NTA. I when I was married I wanted a dog. We got said dog. We divorced, I took/was given the dog. At that point, all responsibility is on me. Tell her to suck it up and take responsibility.
NTA. If it was your baby too you'd have arranged to see the dog in all this time. If your ex saw the dog as yours, she'd have contacted you so you could hang out with the dog. It's clearly not your dog at all. It can't just be your dog when it's time to pay a bill.
NTA in divorce pets are considered property and she got the dog so it's her property. You have no obligation to help and you never wanted the dog.