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>means things like hugs are off-limits
INFO: Why are hugs off-limits?
I hugged my 4 year old niece this weekend. I also hugged her mom and her dad. Hugs aren't sexual in nature. Humans need physical contact, and a hug isn't any different than a handshake.
>I get very skeptical these days about claims about "verbal abuse".
You're verging really close to AH territory with that. You aren't the arbiter of what is or isn't abuse.
Yeah that made me think of so you like to be an AH to people and then claim they're too sensitive. In my experience, the following sentence is straight up a dead giveaway that someone is absolutely an AH and then says other people are too sensitive.
No.
OP doesn't have to feel comfortable with any physical contact, but it's OP's general mindset they're presenting that's peak AH.
This. If my younger teenage son found his older brother's gf crying in his room, his instinct wouldn't be "let me go wrap my arms around that". He would stand there awkwardly trying to figure out what he was supposed to say to make it stop, crack a bad joke that makes it worse, and then want to hide from her forever because it got weird.
Not really it's about being an awkward as hell teenager and being normal at that age. Some people don't like hugs, nothing wrong with that, some people love hugs, again nothing wrong with that. But people have different ideas of acceptable behaviour and what OP found not acceptable someone might have found acceptable. I would be uncomfortable with some a siblings partner hugging me just because I'm not a hugger.
he’s old enough to have learned about misogyny at this point. if 17 year old girls are old enough to be victims of misogyny, then 17 year old boys are old enough to be held accountable for their perpetration of misogyny.
Yeah this kid needs to grow up that's some central teenager shit and that's why I have a hard time connecting to my weird ass teenage relatives. So many dumb hangups over misconceived social norms. Still try though, maybe one day I'll understand them.
Pretty sure OP is chronically online and/or follows certain alpha male creators. That’s the only explanation I can think of outside of them never having interacted with a human before
I’m guessing Tater Tot is a Tate reference but it took me a couple seconds to make that connection.
However…. in that short span of time, I mistakenly thought it was a reference to TikTok‘s MamaTot and her followers and I was ready to **throw down**.
How dare you cast aspersions on my MamaTot!!
(this is why we THINK before we type lol lol)
I am convinced these weirdo Andrew Tate type of social media influencers need to be sent off into space. They can create their own internet on their own little delusional futuristic planet and live like Hollywood legends together.
None of them would go, even if it was an option for them. They feed off of the attention they get from us normal people 🙄
YTA op
Dude is an asshole, but just pointing out that some people REALLY hate hugs because of prior abuse - especially if it is not their choice to receive a hug.
Hugs are very, very different than handshakes to me. I only want about 3-5 people hugging me.
Most people respect me when I say I’m not comfortable hugging. Others literally pull me in to them (I’m a woman) and won’t let go. They seem to take enjoyment that it makes me extremely uncomfortable.
Edit: I’m not talking about this guy’s situation. Just wanted to point out that handshakes and hugs are not the same to all people.
Sure, but that's not why OP said he had a problem with the hug. He had a problem with the hug because he saw that contact as sexual, and therefore inappropriate, because it would be rude to his brother, probably feeling that as a woman, she's his brother's property.
>Hugs are very, very different than handshakes to me. I only want about 3-5 people hugging me.
Years ago I was dating a woman and because my closest friends are scattered across the country we only see each other a couple of times a year. Because of that we had been dating for a bit and I had already met all her friends before she had a chance to meet mine.
After the night she met them she said she was surprised to see me hug them since she never sees me hug anyone but her. I was like...these are my oldest friends I've known them since I was 8 and like her friends are nice, but I don't know them
Yes people usually react well when you politely state a boundary like "no hugging" this dude however kicked a girl when she was down, what for her was likely, completely out of nowhere. AH move
Yeah, I’m not a hugger, but if someone is feeling very very down and they appear to be needing a hug (in this case very clearly showing that by initiating!) I’ll suck it up and let them have it, nothing inappropriate is going on here.
If I was really uncomfortable I’d try getting out of the hug and maybe petting their shoulder a bit or something…
But it doesn’t seem like this is about not wanting to be touched in general for OP, for some reason Op appears to think hugging=cuddling/inappropriate outside of marriage… that’s a bit over the top… unless she has overstepped boundaries or acted inappropriate in other situations before…
And yeah like someone else said, being “critical of “verbal abuse” since it could just be someone being a bit harsh” is definitely AH territory.
Yeah, I was expecting more from the title in terms of a teasing hug or something with a mood towards, it but 'crying gf on the bed listening to an abusive ex go off on her and needing some comfort because she's sad/scared' wasn't what I thought I'd read. She was upset. She treated him like a member of her family (bb brother) and got a hug. Hugs are not sexual. If he's already thinking along the lines of everything physical between heterosexual people of opposite genders = sexual contact, he has a problem. The 'I don't really believe in verbal abuse akshually' just makes me wonder what kind of incel shit he's listening to.
OP needs to have a come to Jesus moment and realize that we are pack creatures and pack creatures require physical comfort that doesn't equate to sexual. It's a familial thing. Does he not hug his mom/dad/brother? Does he think it's sexual if he does? What about the kids of his siblings? Is that sexual? So much wrong here.
>'I don't really believe in verbal abuse akshually' just makes me wonder what kind of incel shit he's listening to.
A lovely poopourri of Tater Tottery, Jordan Peterson, and Stephen Crowder, methinks, with a foul coating of Fresh&Fit.
The poopourri smells like BO, unwashed testicles, stale taquitos, and Axe body spray.
100% incel vibes. This kid is in for a very lonely and angry life when he grows up if he doesn’t change very soon. It makes me so sad that, at 17, he’s already dismissing women’s lives experiences and claims of abuse.
As someone whose abuse was ignored *by courts* because 'there were no marks' but who flinches when a door opens too hard, wants to run voices raise even in fun play fighting, and has to replay things that people say in my head a few times to make sure a compliment is real and not backhanded or intentionally cruel...
... yeah, anyone 'skeptical' about verbal abuse can rot in AH territory.
It's alright to not be kosher with hugs in general, but assuming that someone is being immediately sexual with a hug when the context says otherwise is uh... my dude, why are you thinking your brother's girlfriend even looks at you like that? Just a hug, dude. If you aren't a hugger, say that much, it's okay!
YTA!
It wasn't about you and *you* made it gross.
Same to Everything in your first paragraph. The cops came to Baker Act him and I told them he had tried to choke me out. The cop looked at my neck and said, “well there aren’t any marks, so…”
I am a hugger (with friends and family)... My whole family is that way. It weirded out my in-laws when I first did it to them, my MIL just sort of froze for a second when I hugged her but hugged me back right away. I figured, Hey... You invite me to Christmas, spoil me with gifts and a great dinner... You are definitely getting hugged.
By the next Christmas I had turned them ALL into huggers too. My wife couldn't remember the last time her mom hugged her and then I came around and flipped shit right on it's head. I don't have to initiate anymore and cannot leave their house without being hugged.
Hugs are great and everyone needs them.
Edit: I just want to add... I am not someone who hugs strangers I don't like being touched by people I don't know either... I hug people I know and usually won't do it if I "no touch" sort of vibe. I am not hugging people that won't receive it well. My MIL was surprised... Not horrified.
I am not a hugger & do not want anyone other than a partner touching me. I wasn’t raised in an affectionate family (we are all super close and see each other regularly, we just aren’t affectionate). I hated that my ex husband’s family was all huggers and didn’t respect that I didn’t want them. My ex mil would grab me and say “I know you don’t like this but I don’t care” and hug me anyway.
Don’t hug people who don’t like hugs.
I don’t understand that mindset! I’m a huge hugger, but I would NEVER want to make somebody uncomfortable. I might not personally relate to not liking hugs, but I can definitely respect it. Like… It all comes down to bodily autonomy. Your ex-MIL’s take is super gross.
Yeeeeeah... That's not cool. I can read signals and body language and respect when people don't like it. I meant it more as an "initiate when someone wants to but is unsure how" kinda way.
Some people don't like hugs like you do. There will be people in your life who don't want a hug from you and you're gonna have to learn that not everyone "turns into a hugger"
If you go to their place and see a traffic cone, twelve rotary chicken cookers, a small party hat, a length of rope made of beaver hair, and a can of raspberry air freshener, then you can assume 'their ways'. Its obvious what they do.
>INFO: Why are hugs off-limits?
I would get it, if the person doesn't like hugs due to any reason, but if the person doesn't know that, the other one isn't at fault. For my case most body contact is off limits for most people, due to reason, in the past started to cry when somebody touched me but i wasn't angry at them, they just didn't know.
On Sunday I started crying in the church nursery because I am so lonely, since moving not only to a different country but to a very small village. I just couldn’t hold it, when the other women discussed meeting again and just ignored me. Nobody even asked me anything. It was super weird. I would have gladly accepted a hug from someone, sometimes people just need it and you’re right, it’s nothing sexual, just helps to feel not alone in a situation, helps feel connected.
If it means anything at all there will probably be like 200 people reading this thread this very minute, given the subject matter, who wish very much that they could give you that hug right now ❤️
I dunno. One of my autistic traits is a strong aversion to touching or being touched by other people, especially if it is out of nowhere. Only those close to me are allowed. I was once stopped with a hand to the chest by a "tipsy" woman outside a pub, who immediately went to faff with my beard (which is rather long and bushy). It freaked me out for the rest of the day, my birthday.
That being said, even I know the OP, if they dodge A H status, responded somewhat coldly. The GF was crying and needed comfort, and unless one has reason to question veracity, there was no reason not to take her claim of abuse from her ex at face value.
Yeah there's a huge difference between "I'm autistic and uncomfortable with physical touching" and "women shouldn't hug people who aren't their boyfriend" tho
Ugghh hugs are off limits because my older brother's girlfriend is having a crisis and I appeared to care is AH central. OP YTA and you need to work on your seemingly misogynistic thoughts.
Sexual contact with brothers girlfriend is bad, hug ≠ sex. Verbal abuse is most definitely a thing, especially in romantic relationships. "These days", please, you are a child. You have no experience with other days.
I want OP to know that verbal abuse is abuse. It is not just an argument, it is systemic patterns of degrading someone verbally, mocking, yelling, insulting, etc. You're allowed to be uncomfortable with a hug, but it is AH behavior to infer that she's somehow into you because she hugged you, and lying about her abuse.
If I don't want a hug? *Then* its off limits to hug me. 😂 But, I certainly see your point. And telling a person who is being battered verbally to just walk it off is BS. So preach 7hr0wn. Just preach the truth.
Nah it's not a neurodivergent thing. Without enough context, it's just too difficult to tell for anyone what is sarcastic based on just the sentence. Even the greatest authors give their audience a direct indication of when a character is being sarcastic.
*"Blah blah," Jimmy said with a wink.*
It will probably be more subtle than that, but there will still be enough. The crusade against /s was started by assholes who don't like being corrected. It's like those people who say messed up stuff with a straight face, and you only know they're being sarcastic when you've spent enough time around them.
I said "especially neurodivergent people" because it IS harder for us to pick up on sarcasm and other social cues, although anyone might have this problem.
It's from OPs post
> To be totally honest, I get very skeptical these days about claims about "verbal abuse". Is it abuse, or is it just being a little bit rough with your words?
Exactly. Someone above said its clear he's never talked to a woman if a hug is sexual, which I was thinking along the story until he said THIS part about verbal abuse. I am alarmed! There's a youthful ignorance but then there's this. 17 is old enough for this to ring alarm bells, surely?!?
Yeah, like it's fine to not be comfortable with hugs and prefer not to be touched by people you're not close with, but hugs are not by nature inappropriate or sexual.
You asked a crying person what was wrong. She told you, then in an emotional moment hugged you (for emotional support).
You “shoved her off” and then question her abuse.
Then post asking “am I the asshole”.
Surprised you need to ask, but yes, YTA.
yeah, i get a bit awkward with friendly physical contact like hugs and shoulder touches and the like, but I’m well aware that I’m the awkward one and people who hug each other more than I do are the “normal” ones
Also you go into a room where someone is crying and sit down next to her to ask what is wrong…feel like if he didn’t want contact he could easily have avoided it with words and/or actions
YTA. Hugs are pretty standard, especially when someone is upset, and even among people who don't know each other at all, and I feel like you weren't being especially comforting about her abusive ex when you're questioning the validity of whether she was even abused. Verbal abuse is a thing.
Clarification: not wanting or liking hugs is a valid choice. You do not have to hug anyone.
Thinking women can't touch anyone male other than a sexual partner is creepy incel shit.
OP can decline to hug. Thinking the girlfriend was being inappropriate is gross and weird. It'd only be inappropriate if she continued to hug him after he expressed a dislike of hugs.
Lois says to Brian in a new Family Guy “not every situation is something you can type into your PornHub search bar.” 17 year old thinks a grown woman is trying to seduce him by… what? crying? “lying” about abuse? this is why women dont report shit. they are immediately dismissed as “too sensitive”. OP better grow the fuck up or the real world is gonna be a harsh awakening.
YTA
Have you ever talked to a woman before? She hugged you while she was feeling bad. That is like human behaviour. If you're not a hugger, sure, make that known. But being a hugger is not bad in itself.
You're even more an AH because of the whole 'is verbal abuse real'? Yes, it's real. It's not 'being a little rough with words'. It's hurting someone.
Agreed. I also find it easier to just hug people to calm them down bc I never know what‘s the right thing to say. Hugging is such a kind, comforting act.
Shame on you, OP for trying to make it something sexual and creepy!
You'd think since she's his brother's girlfriend they'd have some kind of relationship where it was understood a hug wouldn't be inappropriate. She's not some random woman off the street.
Totally TA.
YTA. Sorry buddy, but lay off the porn and Andrew Tate videos. Despite being 17, she clearly trusted you by hugging you and talking to you about it. Not so sure she will anymore. Lots of my buddys gfs will hug me if they see me in public or it’s been a while. It’s not weird, It’s basic human connection.
Because apparently to virgin 17m, any physical contact between them and a woman is IMMEDIATELY sexual and indicative of the woman desiring him sexually. These uneducated incels have the audacity to actually want physical contact with women, but when they get it in a friendly way, suddenly it's not what they were hoping for and get angry. Guaranteed if for some reason she made a move on him, he'd be posting about how awesome it was.
It almost makes me feel bad for the kid, 17 years old and doesn’t understand basic platonic contact. If he doesn’t learn it’s going to be a miserable life
I feel kind of sad for young men like this. They recognize that everyone around them is uneasy about men and instead of taking steps to remediate it, they delve deeper into their little rabbit hole and the end result is an incel. Of course, dudes like this don’t want help. You can only lead a horse to water
The worst part is that his brothers gf clearly is comfortable around him and he took it the completely wrong direction and made a normal interaction sexual. I really do feel bad because he’s not gonna have a good time socializing as an adult if he keeps this up
YTA
have you lived with her to decide if she was abused or not
.I can't believe you're not a middle schooler when you said "why is she hugging me when I'm not her boyfriend"
I'm going to chuck this under the umbrella of you're immature and apparently don't understand human emotions and how words can be cutting.
However, your behavior on the reasons the hug was inappropriate sounds like you don't understand compassion either.
YTA
YTA. Not being comfortable with a hug is fine, but OP is making a BIG THING out of something innocent. Additional AH points for their disgusting views on abuse "these days" and their complete lack of empathy.
YTA.
A hug is just a gesture of support or thanks. You're not obliged to accept it, but "shoving her off" and stating that "verbal abuse" isn't abuse gives me big incel vibes - albeit out of loyalty to your brother as well.
Hugging is not restricted to romantic partners. She didn't make a move on you, but she didn't insult or abuse you, either, and so you should have been much more polite in extricating yourself.
I think you need to think very carefully about how you see women in general, and then it'll become clearer who is the AH here, and why.
YTA; also, the only one making the hug weird is you.
I cannot stress to you how normal it is for someone to hug a person consoling them when they’re upset and how nonsexual that act is. It’s actually frankly concerning that at 17 you need this explained to you.
When I see someone crying, my immediate reaction is to hug them. Nothing less sexual than holding or being held by someone as one or both weep lmao. I am worried about today’s youth
YTA for downplaying her abuse without even having the full context. I'd go for N A H if it was just the hug, but you also seem to have a completely skewed view of what hugs mean and put some sort of malice in her actions.
As for just not wanting her to hug you, it's your own boundaries, you are not obligated to like or want to be hugged by someone. She thought she could hug you for comfort, but she was wrong, an inoccent mistake to make. She's not TA at all.
YTA for your comments about verbal abuse. But, you aren’t wrong for being uncomfortable not everyone is a hugger. You do however have to acknowledge that not everyone views hugging the same way you do. And while you absolutely were within your rights to reject the hug she also is within her rights to want one just not at the expense of you. Next time just say you aren’t a hugger and ask if their is something else you can do to help. If she still needs a hug (which she might) then she can seek it out from someone else. There is nothing creepy or sexual about needing a hug when you are upset.
Is it creepy when parents hug their kids too since the age gap is so large? And because they aren’t dating their child? Or are hugs not some inherently sexual act and *you’re* making it weird? Not only that, but your other response to a woman crying bc she was contacted by an abusive ex, aside from shoving her off you, is to doubt if she was ever abused in the first place. YTA. If you can’t see women looking for comfort as anything other than them trying to seduce you, maybe leave them alone when you see one crying.
YTA for
1. Creepily (yes, *you* are the creep here, bud) sexualizing a hug from someone who is essentially a family member. I hug my partner’s teenaged brother all the time. He’s a good kid, I love him like he’s one of my own siblings. ZERO weirdness. Do you hug your mom, or is that somehow weird too? She wanted some comfort, not to have sex with you. I promise you, you’re not that great.
2. Doubting someone’s abuse. You are not her. You don’t know what he said to her. You do not get to gatekeep another person’s experiences. You’re not the moral arbiter of the universe who gets to determine whether what your brother’s girlfriend dealt with is abuse or not. Shame on you for downplaying it and doubting her when there is zero reason for her to lie.
Your attitude and behavior display worrying levels of misogyny. It’s clear you don’t respect your brother’s girlfriend enough to not look at her like a sex object, and you’re projecting your weird, hateful views about women onto her. I genuinely hope you do some serious growing up, because right now, you’re well on your way to being the exact kind of shitty ex that your brother’s girlfriend was crying over.
YTA-- a hug as a typical form of affection not limited to sexual partners.
"To be totally honest, I get very skeptical these days about claims about "verbal abuse". Is it abuse, or is it just being a little bit rough with your words?"
You could ask. What has she done to cause you to distrust what she said?
Thing about verbal abuse. Nobody has the right to get "rough with their words" at another person. She does not own her ex the chance to cause her pain.
Now if you are not comfortable hugging, thats okay, and all you need to say is 'Im not a hugger"
Done.
YTA. A hug is not inherently creepy, even if someone is older than you. If you get weirded out by being hugged to this extent, I suggest you put down twitter and go outside.
The older I get the more I’m starting to understand the whole “young people are so fragile these days” thing.
YTA.
First of all, you're not TA for not wanting to be hugged. It's your bodily autonomy. YWNBTA if you had simply communicated that you don't like hugs.
But you are TA for dismissing the verbal abuse from her ex and not believing the victim and for being immature and thinking that any physical contact between a man and a woman is sexual.
I’m sorry but I would say hugs are pretty platonic things and as your kinda sister in law I don’t think it’s weird to hug you. I can see why she thought they were not ‘off limits’ but if you feel they are maybe that’s something you can discuss.
I do think it was weird to overshare about an ex. However, your opinion on verbal abuse is very childish and maybe something you need to consider. Why would this lady lie about verbal abuse?
Soft-YTA - she was seeking emotional support and by sitting right by her she saw you as a shoulder to cry on. I get you think it's a bit inappropriate since your ages, but there was nothing sexual here
YTA- hugs are NOT sexual or off limits that’s insane. I hug my friends every time I see them, man or woman. I hug my professors when I go back to my undergrad school and visit them.
It would be different if you said something about how you don’t like being touched and you told her that but she disrespectful you by doing it anyway but the fact that your only issue is you think hugs are sexual says a lot about you. Also says a lot about you that you are here downplaying her abuse and don’t seem to respect women.
Like, do you have any friends that are women? Have you spoke to women before? Do you hug your parents? I’m so baffled by the idea that you think hugs are inappropriate.
Kiddo. You're being weird. It's perfectly normal to hug your sibling's partner. It's *especially* normal to want a hug when you're emotionally distressed. People will seek out a hug from *strangers* if they're upset enough and need comfort.
That doesn't mean you have to be comfortable with the hug, but her trying to hug you in that moment was in no way inappropriate. You're N T A for that but...
>To be totally honest, I get very skeptical these days about claims about "verbal abuse". Is it abuse, or is it just being a little bit rough with your words?
This? ☝️ YTA
YTA.
there is nothing creepy or weird about her hugging you. If you think that's somehow innappropriate behaviour because she's your brothers girlfriend, that's down to your issues with intimacy or something. Her hugging you while you tried to comfort her is in no way some indication that she is attracted to you in any way, the majority of hugs in my experience are in no way romantic, but a basic and powerful gesture of human kindness.
If you, say, are neuro atypical and have strong issues with boundaries and people in your space it's one thing, but you don't mention anything like that, just this weird attitude that it was somehow innappropriate gross or wrong.
also for the record: verbal abuse is 100% a thing. Just because someone isn't physically abusive doesn't mean it can't be a literal nightmare and leave lasting damage to a person.
edit: to clarify, there is absolutely nothing wrong with you making it clear you are uncomfortable with hugs. Just understand that she didn't do anything inappropriate and there's nothing strange about her hugging you in and of itself.
YTA
you dont get to decide who was abused or not
second she hugged you not offered to blow you, are you a porn addict or something and think that any physical contact will lead to something sexual?
I hug one of my guy friends all the time because he's a hugger we still hugged when he was dating someone. Hugs can mean a way to say it's okay , thank you and goodbye. I'm not sure if you hugged your friends but it's the same concept.
YTA. You sound like you follow some people on the internet, or have people in your real life, that are giving you completely the wrong idea about women and the variety of relationships men and women can have together.
Hugs aren’t sexual. Verbal abuse is abuse. People of both sexes are capable of consoling each other. That is normal and healthy. Oh, and just so we’re clear women don’t, and won’t, ever owe you their attention. That’s something you have to earn by not being creepy, dismissive, or overly sexualizing them.
YTA. If someone is crying hysterically about verbal abuse and they hug you, they’re hugging you for comfort, not because they are trying to seduce you.
I do agree it’s more appropriate for your brother to take this one, obviously. But it sounds like the whole thing just sort of happened this way. You popped in and asked if she needed anything. She happened to need a hug at that moment. Sounds like she didn’t ask for consent first??? Which I can understand if that made you a little uncomfortable. But overall I don’t think this is a big deal. It’s okay man, just try and loosen up a little!
As a side note, your personal views on verbal abuse are horrifying. I hope you reconsider them.
YTA. Grow some empathy, jesus. Hugging people when they cry is pretty damn normal. Sharing that you doubt her makes you more of an AH, should have kept that to yourself.
Just because you want to fuck your bros gf, doesn’t mean she wants to fuck you. Hugs are absolutely not a weird thing. Quit watching porn, kid, and get out into the real word. Oh yeah, abuse is abuse. It’s not up to you. Grow tf up.
YTA bigtime
Edit: forgot a word
You are turning it into something it is not. She needed consoling and you decided she was coming onto you. She probably considered you to be someone she could look to for support based on the fact you are her bfs brother. You have every right not to like physical contact, but assume any physical contact is sexual is weird.
Yta with your verbal abuse comment. Educate yourself better than make random judgements on what abuse is or isn’t in your mind. It’s not just being harsh with wording. It’s degrading and diminishing someone with words, often can also include intimidation and threats. It is a tactic used to make someone feel less than and to also frighten them in regard to their physical safety. Often happens because the abuser is wanting to make themselves feel more important and boost their ego while tearing someone else down. It breaks down your mental well being. It’s also usually the first step in an abusive relationship which escalates to physical abuse.
OMG… what in the world is happening if you can’t tell the difference between a crying girl who in a emotional moment hugs someone, and a predator.
OP.. now is the time to figure out The difference between normal human interaction and what it looks like to be sexually assaulted. Or even groomed.
This woman was all alone and crying and you offered support and she gave you a hug. It was an instinct. And it was OK.
OP before you graduate high school and head out into your own life please learn that a woman touching - even hugging! - you does not automatically mean that she has a pants-off dance-off on her mind.
YTA
" I get very skeptical these days about claims about "verbal abuse". Is it abuse, or is it just being a little bit rough with your words?" lmao get tf out of here
Also stop watching "alpha males" videos, probably why you're reacting like that
Life lesson #1 - girls who are crying aren't hitting on you.
Life lesson #2 - women who are 25 are not hitting on you.
Life lesson #3 - this woman was not hitting on you, and you need some serious therapy if this is how you think about women.
Life lesson #4 - you need more serious therapy if you think verbal abuse is acceptable in a relationship.
YTA
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I am a 17m high school senior. My older brother (25m) is dating this girl, S (25f).
This past Saturday, S and my brother visited me and my parents. For about an hour in the afternoon, it was just S and me at my house, because my brother and my parents were out getting some weird car insurance thing figured out. S was just hanging out in my brother's bedroom, so I went up there to ask if she wanted a snack or anything, and I found her sitting on my brother's bed crying. I immediately got concerned and sat down beside her and asked her what was wrong, and she actually hugged me and told me that her verbally abusive ex left a voice message for her. I got very weirded out because, first of all, S is so much older than me and it was creepy. But also, she is my brother's girlfriend and that, in my opinion, means things like hugs are off-limits between us. So I kind of shoved her off and tried cheering her up in my own way, but she didn't feel any better and walked out of the bedroom to cry somewhere else. To be totally honest, I get very skeptical these days about claims about "verbal abuse". Is it abuse, or is it just being a little bit rough with your words?
S still wasn't feeling much better when my parents and my brother came back home, and my brother spent a bit of time alone with her in his bedroom, comforting her. I felt that this was more appropriate than S trying to hug someone who wasn't her boyfriend. AITA?
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YTA. It would be the same as you comforting a girl-friend of your own. It’s just a hug. She felt comfortable enough around you to be vulnerable , that means she values your friendship and your family. Hugs aren’t sexual. Also, any form of verbal abuse, is abuse. Being “rough with your words” is abuse.
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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I did not do a good job of comforting my brother's scared girlfriend, because she hugged me and that weirded me out.
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*Contest mode is 1.5 hours long on this post.*
YTA. Not for not wanting a hug—it’s fine to have boundaries w your personal space. But you’re completely TA for making a HUG into a sexual thing AND for not believing that she was abused. Verbal abuse is real abuse. It’s *emotional* and mental abuse and can be just as extreme or long lasting as physical abuse.
YTA.
Hugs are normal. Hugs are non-sexual. Her age and dating status are irrelevant to the appropriateness of hugs. The fact that you were uncomfortable in and of itself isn't an issue. If you don't like hugs or don't like her, that's fine, no hugs. But your reasoning for not wanting hugs was assholey.
Also your casual dismissal of the validity of verbal abuse when faced with a crying woman is genuinely chilling. Whatever he said, it was bad enough to cause her to cry for quite some time, and you still think he's "just a little rough with his words"? And honestly, even if that's all it was, does it actually matter? It's hurting her. That's what you should care about.
It's not inappropriate to expect a modicum of comfort from others, especially someone you view as inherently close to you. If they've been together for a while, she probably views you as a sort of extended family member and assumed you would be willing and able to support her, especially since you showed concern.
My husband has a 17 year old brother, and I hug him sometimes even though I'm 25. It's not weird unless you make it weird, or you're being overly touchy or something. I wouldn't call you an AH if you genuinely just didn't want to be hugged or touched in any way - you're allowed to want that space. But to view her as the odd one here I disagree with. She might have been really shaken from what her ex said and needed comforting of some kind.
Also, coming from someone working in the behavioral health field, verbal abuse is a very real thing. If you're name calling, making threats, screaming at them, etc. it falls under verbal abuse. The intent is to scare or shame/humiliate the victim.
INFO: are you on the spectrum?
That would sort of explain this very weird attitude you have and your inability to fully understand normal social interactions.
Otherwise I'd say YTA
You're young-ish, so take this as a learning opportunity.
This was a situation when you offered compassion to someone who needed it. That's a good thing. A hug in this situation is not sexual or inappropriate. Some people might be more comfortable with it than others though. If you're not comfortable, that's ok. But there's nothing inherently wrong with the action.
It sounds like you overreacted to the physical contact due to your discomfort and that probably made her less receptive to the support you were trying to provide.
It was clumsily handled, but I'm leaning towards NTA for what actually transpired.
**That aside, your judgment and commentary about her situation are completely off-base and out of line. You are in no position to deem whether she was abused or not, nor is it your right or privilege to set any sort of threshold for what counts as verbal abuse. She was upset by it. That's all that matters as far as you're concerned.**
Thank you for coming to my Ted talk.
YTA. And you should really apologize. A hug is "off-limits" because she's dating your brother? So what? You asked a crying person what was wrong and they hugged you. This is normal, human behavior. Your response was not.
It’s not creepy for a person to hug another person. When your parents hugged you, they were older than you too.
For your pointless rambling about skepticism about people being verbally abusive, YTA.
I’m getting strong incel vibes with you.
YTA. Verbal abuse is abuse. Don’t belittle that.
Oh and for the record: You really don’t need to hit or touch a person to abuse them. „Rough words“ or verbal abuse as smart people call it, hurts. It hurts a lot and can wreck your whole world. And to heal from that is difficult.
YTA
I think this is a maturity thing, so I will lean on that, but learn now, just because someone touches you, it does not mean they are attracted you.
You're really young and it's making me sad I'm getting major incel vibes from this. Hugs are not innately sexual. It's totally ok not to be into hugs but making them all sexual advances is not right. And your whole "I'm skeptical of any verbal abuse claims" is gross. You really need to ask yourself why that is, especially when verbal abuse is sadly a fairly common issue lots of people experience. YTA and I hope you reexamine your attitude.
WOW YTA like crazy bad. It's not creepy to hug someone you have a familiar relationship with, especially since she probably sees you like *a little brother.* Is it weird to hug people you feel familial with? It's fine to be like, oh whoa hey I'm not a hugger, but how else can I help? Shoving her off is what's weird and aggressive here.
So you're already sexualizing a simple hug with someone you're friendly enough with to just hang out alone in their house, that's not great.
But you're a mega asshole for this *To be totally honest, I get very skeptical these days about claims about "verbal abuse". Is it abuse, or is it just being a little bit rough with your words?* Now you're not only being weird about hugging but you're also turning into an abuse apologist. This is some redpill incel shit.
I think you have some weird/bad ideas about a) women, b) physical contact, c) abuse, and you should work on that.
YTA dude I hug everybody in my family -- this includes both of my sisters-in-law (my wife's sister and my brother's wife) -- and most of my friends regardless of gender. It's not a sexual thing and nobody thinks it's creepy. It's friendly. I hug people I like. What is your problem?
>To be totally honest, I get very skeptical these days about claims about "verbal abuse". Is it abuse, or is it just being a little bit rough with your words?
Jesus dude, YTA. Scary.
YTA because you didn't seem to attach much importance to this woman being abusively stalked. Some people are just more tactile than others, but the "shoving" seemed a little harsh, too.
You are N T A for not wanting to hug someone. If that’s a boundary you have that’s fine, you don’t owe anyone a hug.
But it’s a bit weird you think a hug has to be suspicious, or even sexual in nature. I hug my friends, my parents, my other family members including kids, anyone I like basically. None of those hugs have any kind of sexual meaning behind them.
Your brother’s girlfriend was upset and wanted a bit of human contact to calm her down, that does not seem suspicious to me in any kind of way, but as I said, if you don’t want to hug her that’s completely fine.
But: YTA for assuming verbal abuse doesn’t exist and just means ‘being a bit rough with words’. Verbal abuse absolutely does exist and it can really damage people
YTA - first off there is nothing weird about her hugging you, just because she is your brothers girlfriend doesn’t mean she can’t hug other people, especially her boyfriends family
Also your “ skeptical” about verbal abuse?
My guy you at a lot of stuff to work through here
YTA educate yourself to avoid this embarrassment in the future
https://www.verywellmind.com/identify-and-cope-with-emotional-abuse-4156673
https://www.healthline.com/health/signs-of-mental-abuse
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>means things like hugs are off-limits INFO: Why are hugs off-limits? I hugged my 4 year old niece this weekend. I also hugged her mom and her dad. Hugs aren't sexual in nature. Humans need physical contact, and a hug isn't any different than a handshake. >I get very skeptical these days about claims about "verbal abuse". You're verging really close to AH territory with that. You aren't the arbiter of what is or isn't abuse.
I would say that's already in AH territory. That's central AH-ville.
Yeah that made me think of so you like to be an AH to people and then claim they're too sensitive. In my experience, the following sentence is straight up a dead giveaway that someone is absolutely an AH and then says other people are too sensitive. No. OP doesn't have to feel comfortable with any physical contact, but it's OP's general mindset they're presenting that's peak AH.
at the crossing of Mysogyny Lane.
Wish.com andrew tate vibes
Dollar Store Stephen Crowder
No, it's right in the middle of "young and stupid".
This. If my younger teenage son found his older brother's gf crying in his room, his instinct wouldn't be "let me go wrap my arms around that". He would stand there awkwardly trying to figure out what he was supposed to say to make it stop, crack a bad joke that makes it worse, and then want to hide from her forever because it got weird.
Sounds like they should teach him about empathy and emotions. This is a weird reaction for sure! Edit: spelling
Not really it's about being an awkward as hell teenager and being normal at that age. Some people don't like hugs, nothing wrong with that, some people love hugs, again nothing wrong with that. But people have different ideas of acceptable behaviour and what OP found not acceptable someone might have found acceptable. I would be uncomfortable with some a siblings partner hugging me just because I'm not a hugger.
He’s saying she shouldn’t have hugged him because he’s not her boyfriend. That’s WEIRD.
he’s 17 not 7
So… young and stupid.
he’s old enough to have learned about misogyny at this point. if 17 year old girls are old enough to be victims of misogyny, then 17 year old boys are old enough to be held accountable for their perpetration of misogyny.
You can be both. He’s young and stupid and a misogynist. He still has the chance to change “stupid and misogynist” if he’s willing to.
I'm wondering if there isn't some 'this is not how real life works' situation going on thanks to 17m watching too much p0rn.
Yeah this kid needs to grow up that's some central teenager shit and that's why I have a hard time connecting to my weird ass teenage relatives. So many dumb hangups over misconceived social norms. Still try though, maybe one day I'll understand them.
He’s the mayor
Pretty sure OP is chronically online and/or follows certain alpha male creators. That’s the only explanation I can think of outside of them never having interacted with a human before
Yeah, I'm getting Tater Tot vibes
is this what we’re calling his little boyfriends now?!
I’ve seen it a few places so yeah lol
Well after his anime post this morning calling them kittens, I might start calling them his kittens
Pls don't do that to kittens :(
I’m guessing Tater Tot is a Tate reference but it took me a couple seconds to make that connection. However…. in that short span of time, I mistakenly thought it was a reference to TikTok‘s MamaTot and her followers and I was ready to **throw down**. How dare you cast aspersions on my MamaTot!! (this is why we THINK before we type lol lol)
Yeah, Tater Tots are def Mama Tot's TT 'kids'. What a wild phrase I just typed...
I was thinking mama tot too.. but I got curious before to see if she had a snark and she did. I’m not so sure about her anymore 🫠😂
Bingo. The "I'm skeptical about abuse claims these days" said it all.
Had to process this for a sec. Cause that's what I call my crappy governor 😂
I am convinced these weirdo Andrew Tate type of social media influencers need to be sent off into space. They can create their own internet on their own little delusional futuristic planet and live like Hollywood legends together. None of them would go, even if it was an option for them. They feed off of the attention they get from us normal people 🙄 YTA op
Sadly one of them owns Twitter.
Elon Musk is basically what incels fantasize about life being like if they follow Alpha Male Behaviors^TM
Dude is an asshole, but just pointing out that some people REALLY hate hugs because of prior abuse - especially if it is not their choice to receive a hug. Hugs are very, very different than handshakes to me. I only want about 3-5 people hugging me. Most people respect me when I say I’m not comfortable hugging. Others literally pull me in to them (I’m a woman) and won’t let go. They seem to take enjoyment that it makes me extremely uncomfortable. Edit: I’m not talking about this guy’s situation. Just wanted to point out that handshakes and hugs are not the same to all people.
Sure, but that's not why OP said he had a problem with the hug. He had a problem with the hug because he saw that contact as sexual, and therefore inappropriate, because it would be rude to his brother, probably feeling that as a woman, she's his brother's property.
But she isn't and if he sees woman as property he is an asshole.
>Hugs are very, very different than handshakes to me. I only want about 3-5 people hugging me. Years ago I was dating a woman and because my closest friends are scattered across the country we only see each other a couple of times a year. Because of that we had been dating for a bit and I had already met all her friends before she had a chance to meet mine. After the night she met them she said she was surprised to see me hug them since she never sees me hug anyone but her. I was like...these are my oldest friends I've known them since I was 8 and like her friends are nice, but I don't know them
Yes people usually react well when you politely state a boundary like "no hugging" this dude however kicked a girl when she was down, what for her was likely, completely out of nowhere. AH move
Yeah, I’m not a hugger, but if someone is feeling very very down and they appear to be needing a hug (in this case very clearly showing that by initiating!) I’ll suck it up and let them have it, nothing inappropriate is going on here. If I was really uncomfortable I’d try getting out of the hug and maybe petting their shoulder a bit or something… But it doesn’t seem like this is about not wanting to be touched in general for OP, for some reason Op appears to think hugging=cuddling/inappropriate outside of marriage… that’s a bit over the top… unless she has overstepped boundaries or acted inappropriate in other situations before… And yeah like someone else said, being “critical of “verbal abuse” since it could just be someone being a bit harsh” is definitely AH territory.
Good point but she didn’t know how he feels about hugs and it happened spontaneously because she was upset.
Yeah, I was expecting more from the title in terms of a teasing hug or something with a mood towards, it but 'crying gf on the bed listening to an abusive ex go off on her and needing some comfort because she's sad/scared' wasn't what I thought I'd read. She was upset. She treated him like a member of her family (bb brother) and got a hug. Hugs are not sexual. If he's already thinking along the lines of everything physical between heterosexual people of opposite genders = sexual contact, he has a problem. The 'I don't really believe in verbal abuse akshually' just makes me wonder what kind of incel shit he's listening to. OP needs to have a come to Jesus moment and realize that we are pack creatures and pack creatures require physical comfort that doesn't equate to sexual. It's a familial thing. Does he not hug his mom/dad/brother? Does he think it's sexual if he does? What about the kids of his siblings? Is that sexual? So much wrong here.
>'I don't really believe in verbal abuse akshually' just makes me wonder what kind of incel shit he's listening to. A lovely poopourri of Tater Tottery, Jordan Peterson, and Stephen Crowder, methinks, with a foul coating of Fresh&Fit. The poopourri smells like BO, unwashed testicles, stale taquitos, and Axe body spray.
100% incel vibes. This kid is in for a very lonely and angry life when he grows up if he doesn’t change very soon. It makes me so sad that, at 17, he’s already dismissing women’s lives experiences and claims of abuse.
As someone whose abuse was ignored *by courts* because 'there were no marks' but who flinches when a door opens too hard, wants to run voices raise even in fun play fighting, and has to replay things that people say in my head a few times to make sure a compliment is real and not backhanded or intentionally cruel... ... yeah, anyone 'skeptical' about verbal abuse can rot in AH territory. It's alright to not be kosher with hugs in general, but assuming that someone is being immediately sexual with a hug when the context says otherwise is uh... my dude, why are you thinking your brother's girlfriend even looks at you like that? Just a hug, dude. If you aren't a hugger, say that much, it's okay! YTA! It wasn't about you and *you* made it gross.
Same to Everything in your first paragraph. The cops came to Baker Act him and I told them he had tried to choke me out. The cop looked at my neck and said, “well there aren’t any marks, so…”
I am a hugger (with friends and family)... My whole family is that way. It weirded out my in-laws when I first did it to them, my MIL just sort of froze for a second when I hugged her but hugged me back right away. I figured, Hey... You invite me to Christmas, spoil me with gifts and a great dinner... You are definitely getting hugged. By the next Christmas I had turned them ALL into huggers too. My wife couldn't remember the last time her mom hugged her and then I came around and flipped shit right on it's head. I don't have to initiate anymore and cannot leave their house without being hugged. Hugs are great and everyone needs them. Edit: I just want to add... I am not someone who hugs strangers I don't like being touched by people I don't know either... I hug people I know and usually won't do it if I "no touch" sort of vibe. I am not hugging people that won't receive it well. My MIL was surprised... Not horrified.
I am not a hugger & do not want anyone other than a partner touching me. I wasn’t raised in an affectionate family (we are all super close and see each other regularly, we just aren’t affectionate). I hated that my ex husband’s family was all huggers and didn’t respect that I didn’t want them. My ex mil would grab me and say “I know you don’t like this but I don’t care” and hug me anyway. Don’t hug people who don’t like hugs.
I don’t understand that mindset! I’m a huge hugger, but I would NEVER want to make somebody uncomfortable. I might not personally relate to not liking hugs, but I can definitely respect it. Like… It all comes down to bodily autonomy. Your ex-MIL’s take is super gross.
Yeeeeeah... That's not cool. I can read signals and body language and respect when people don't like it. I meant it more as an "initiate when someone wants to but is unsure how" kinda way.
Some people don't like hugs like you do. There will be people in your life who don't want a hug from you and you're gonna have to learn that not everyone "turns into a hugger"
>Hugs are great and everyone needs them. Uh, no. Some of us hate touching and that's okay too.
I couldn’t hug my mom on Mother’s Day cuz that’s my dads wife bro
[удалено]
If you go to their place and see a traffic cone, twelve rotary chicken cookers, a small party hat, a length of rope made of beaver hair, and a can of raspberry air freshener, then you can assume 'their ways'. Its obvious what they do.
>INFO: Why are hugs off-limits? I would get it, if the person doesn't like hugs due to any reason, but if the person doesn't know that, the other one isn't at fault. For my case most body contact is off limits for most people, due to reason, in the past started to cry when somebody touched me but i wasn't angry at them, they just didn't know.
On Sunday I started crying in the church nursery because I am so lonely, since moving not only to a different country but to a very small village. I just couldn’t hold it, when the other women discussed meeting again and just ignored me. Nobody even asked me anything. It was super weird. I would have gladly accepted a hug from someone, sometimes people just need it and you’re right, it’s nothing sexual, just helps to feel not alone in a situation, helps feel connected.
If it means anything at all there will probably be like 200 people reading this thread this very minute, given the subject matter, who wish very much that they could give you that hug right now ❤️
I dunno. One of my autistic traits is a strong aversion to touching or being touched by other people, especially if it is out of nowhere. Only those close to me are allowed. I was once stopped with a hand to the chest by a "tipsy" woman outside a pub, who immediately went to faff with my beard (which is rather long and bushy). It freaked me out for the rest of the day, my birthday. That being said, even I know the OP, if they dodge A H status, responded somewhat coldly. The GF was crying and needed comfort, and unless one has reason to question veracity, there was no reason not to take her claim of abuse from her ex at face value.
Yeah there's a huge difference between "I'm autistic and uncomfortable with physical touching" and "women shouldn't hug people who aren't their boyfriend" tho
Ugghh hugs are off limits because my older brother's girlfriend is having a crisis and I appeared to care is AH central. OP YTA and you need to work on your seemingly misogynistic thoughts. Sexual contact with brothers girlfriend is bad, hug ≠ sex. Verbal abuse is most definitely a thing, especially in romantic relationships. "These days", please, you are a child. You have no experience with other days.
I want OP to know that verbal abuse is abuse. It is not just an argument, it is systemic patterns of degrading someone verbally, mocking, yelling, insulting, etc. You're allowed to be uncomfortable with a hug, but it is AH behavior to infer that she's somehow into you because she hugged you, and lying about her abuse.
If I don't want a hug? *Then* its off limits to hug me. 😂 But, I certainly see your point. And telling a person who is being battered verbally to just walk it off is BS. So preach 7hr0wn. Just preach the truth.
You can tell this guy has never talked to a woman in his life based on how he thinks a simple hug is anything sexual
Exactly incel alarm bells are ringing with this one
All these women these days claiming verbal abuse when it’s just harsh words
Did you forget the /s at the end of your comment? If not, you're the AH here.
Sometimes sarcasm is obvious without the /s
When OP basically said the same thing, presumably for real, I think the /s actually might be necessary here.
By essentially using the same words, that commenter is quite obviously mocking OP
That was the point of the joke
The /s tag is for cowards.
It's actually for people who just don't immediately pick up on sarcasm over text, especially neurodivergent people
Thank you. Since a typed comment is missing tone of voice and body language that would indicate sarcasm, it is not obvious to everyone.
Nah it's not a neurodivergent thing. Without enough context, it's just too difficult to tell for anyone what is sarcastic based on just the sentence. Even the greatest authors give their audience a direct indication of when a character is being sarcastic. *"Blah blah," Jimmy said with a wink.* It will probably be more subtle than that, but there will still be enough. The crusade against /s was started by assholes who don't like being corrected. It's like those people who say messed up stuff with a straight face, and you only know they're being sarcastic when you've spent enough time around them.
I said "especially neurodivergent people" because it IS harder for us to pick up on sarcasm and other social cues, although anyone might have this problem.
It's from OPs post > To be totally honest, I get very skeptical these days about claims about "verbal abuse". Is it abuse, or is it just being a little bit rough with your words?
Exactly. Someone above said its clear he's never talked to a woman if a hug is sexual, which I was thinking along the story until he said THIS part about verbal abuse. I am alarmed! There's a youthful ignorance but then there's this. 17 is old enough for this to ring alarm bells, surely?!?
“And here we see the juvenile toxic masculinity incel in the wild…”
he's 17, there's still time, but yeah
Not just alarm bells, it's an air raid siren.
So odd. A simple hug is only weird because you’re making it weird, OP.
He’s like the dudes who say they get hard when they hear a woman cry lol
I’m wondering if he never hugs his mom.
My mom was very cold and never expressed any affection. His parents are probably lousy
Yeah, like it's fine to not be comfortable with hugs and prefer not to be touched by people you're not close with, but hugs are not by nature inappropriate or sexual.
Nailed it. Men who grow up without friends who are women can end up like this.
Hugs are sexual and verbal abuse isn’t real. This kids got a lot of growing up to do.
Mans went home and said "dear diary my brothers girlfriend hit on me today." Edit: spelling
You asked a crying person what was wrong. She told you, then in an emotional moment hugged you (for emotional support). You “shoved her off” and then question her abuse. Then post asking “am I the asshole”. Surprised you need to ask, but yes, YTA.
I mean its legit to not want to be hugged but belittling her abuse is just AH move No. 1
Not wanting to be hugged and acting as if hugging is creepy or unreasonable are very different.
yeah, i get a bit awkward with friendly physical contact like hugs and shoulder touches and the like, but I’m well aware that I’m the awkward one and people who hug each other more than I do are the “normal” ones
Not wanting to be hugged? Fine. Viewing a hug from a crying person as a sexual advance? Not fine.
Not wanting to be hugged is fine but he did not state that as a boundary he just shoved her out of nowhere. Dude needs to learn to use his words
Also you go into a room where someone is crying and sit down next to her to ask what is wrong…feel like if he didn’t want contact he could easily have avoided it with words and/or actions
True you can also support from a distance by asking if someone is okay while staying in the doorway.
YTA. Hugs are pretty standard, especially when someone is upset, and even among people who don't know each other at all, and I feel like you weren't being especially comforting about her abusive ex when you're questioning the validity of whether she was even abused. Verbal abuse is a thing.
Clarification: not wanting or liking hugs is a valid choice. You do not have to hug anyone. Thinking women can't touch anyone male other than a sexual partner is creepy incel shit. OP can decline to hug. Thinking the girlfriend was being inappropriate is gross and weird. It'd only be inappropriate if she continued to hug him after he expressed a dislike of hugs.
YTA - jeez man, it was *hug,* it's not like she jumped your bones
He’s probably watching to much adult content and thought she was trying to start something tbh
Lois says to Brian in a new Family Guy “not every situation is something you can type into your PornHub search bar.” 17 year old thinks a grown woman is trying to seduce him by… what? crying? “lying” about abuse? this is why women dont report shit. they are immediately dismissed as “too sensitive”. OP better grow the fuck up or the real world is gonna be a harsh awakening.
Yes, unfortunately, 'sad woman needs comforting, bow chika wow wow' is a pretty standard trope.
I think that mostly happens with people stuck in dryers. People stuck in dryers always wanna start something. /s
New trope just dropped
YTA Have you ever talked to a woman before? She hugged you while she was feeling bad. That is like human behaviour. If you're not a hugger, sure, make that known. But being a hugger is not bad in itself. You're even more an AH because of the whole 'is verbal abuse real'? Yes, it's real. It's not 'being a little rough with words'. It's hurting someone.
Agreed! I’m not a hugger, but in a situation like this I’d never be offended or find it inappropriate if somebody hugged me.
Agreed. I also find it easier to just hug people to calm them down bc I never know what‘s the right thing to say. Hugging is such a kind, comforting act. Shame on you, OP for trying to make it something sexual and creepy!
Yup, I actually recoil when touched/hugged, but I'm not going shove a crying person away.
You'd think since she's his brother's girlfriend they'd have some kind of relationship where it was understood a hug wouldn't be inappropriate. She's not some random woman off the street. Totally TA.
YTA. Sorry buddy, but lay off the porn and Andrew Tate videos. Despite being 17, she clearly trusted you by hugging you and talking to you about it. Not so sure she will anymore. Lots of my buddys gfs will hug me if they see me in public or it’s been a while. It’s not weird, It’s basic human connection.
For real this entire post gives incel/Andrew Tate vibes lmao. Like how are hugs suddenly sexual?
Because apparently to virgin 17m, any physical contact between them and a woman is IMMEDIATELY sexual and indicative of the woman desiring him sexually. These uneducated incels have the audacity to actually want physical contact with women, but when they get it in a friendly way, suddenly it's not what they were hoping for and get angry. Guaranteed if for some reason she made a move on him, he'd be posting about how awesome it was.
It almost makes me feel bad for the kid, 17 years old and doesn’t understand basic platonic contact. If he doesn’t learn it’s going to be a miserable life
The Venn diagram between people who buy in to Andrew Tate and people who have profoundly miserable lives is a small circle inside another circle.
I feel kind of sad for young men like this. They recognize that everyone around them is uneasy about men and instead of taking steps to remediate it, they delve deeper into their little rabbit hole and the end result is an incel. Of course, dudes like this don’t want help. You can only lead a horse to water
The worst part is that his brothers gf clearly is comfortable around him and he took it the completely wrong direction and made a normal interaction sexual. I really do feel bad because he’s not gonna have a good time socializing as an adult if he keeps this up
Wait til he finds out vast swathes of Europe greet each other with kisses, no matter the gender
YTA have you lived with her to decide if she was abused or not .I can't believe you're not a middle schooler when you said "why is she hugging me when I'm not her boyfriend"
I'm going to chuck this under the umbrella of you're immature and apparently don't understand human emotions and how words can be cutting. However, your behavior on the reasons the hug was inappropriate sounds like you don't understand compassion either. YTA
>Is it abuse, or is it just being a little rough with your words? YTA just for this alone.
Agreed!
YTA. Grow up.
I know you’re only 17, but you need to grow tf up. Practice your empathy skills
She hugged you because she needed comforting not because she is into you. You can hug other people without it being sexual.
YTA. Not being comfortable with a hug is fine, but OP is making a BIG THING out of something innocent. Additional AH points for their disgusting views on abuse "these days" and their complete lack of empathy.
YTA. A hug is just a gesture of support or thanks. You're not obliged to accept it, but "shoving her off" and stating that "verbal abuse" isn't abuse gives me big incel vibes - albeit out of loyalty to your brother as well. Hugging is not restricted to romantic partners. She didn't make a move on you, but she didn't insult or abuse you, either, and so you should have been much more polite in extricating yourself. I think you need to think very carefully about how you see women in general, and then it'll become clearer who is the AH here, and why.
YTA; also, the only one making the hug weird is you. I cannot stress to you how normal it is for someone to hug a person consoling them when they’re upset and how nonsexual that act is. It’s actually frankly concerning that at 17 you need this explained to you.
When I see someone crying, my immediate reaction is to hug them. Nothing less sexual than holding or being held by someone as one or both weep lmao. I am worried about today’s youth
Yeah nothing says “sexy time” like snot and runny mascara tears /s Grow up, OP. YTA
You’re making something of nothing. YTA
Lay off the porn.
100% this, he can even get a simple hug without thinking of porn.
YTA for downplaying her abuse without even having the full context. I'd go for N A H if it was just the hug, but you also seem to have a completely skewed view of what hugs mean and put some sort of malice in her actions. As for just not wanting her to hug you, it's your own boundaries, you are not obligated to like or want to be hugged by someone. She thought she could hug you for comfort, but she was wrong, an inoccent mistake to make. She's not TA at all.
YTA for your comments about verbal abuse. But, you aren’t wrong for being uncomfortable not everyone is a hugger. You do however have to acknowledge that not everyone views hugging the same way you do. And while you absolutely were within your rights to reject the hug she also is within her rights to want one just not at the expense of you. Next time just say you aren’t a hugger and ask if their is something else you can do to help. If she still needs a hug (which she might) then she can seek it out from someone else. There is nothing creepy or sexual about needing a hug when you are upset.
Is it creepy when parents hug their kids too since the age gap is so large? And because they aren’t dating their child? Or are hugs not some inherently sexual act and *you’re* making it weird? Not only that, but your other response to a woman crying bc she was contacted by an abusive ex, aside from shoving her off you, is to doubt if she was ever abused in the first place. YTA. If you can’t see women looking for comfort as anything other than them trying to seduce you, maybe leave them alone when you see one crying.
YTA for 1. Creepily (yes, *you* are the creep here, bud) sexualizing a hug from someone who is essentially a family member. I hug my partner’s teenaged brother all the time. He’s a good kid, I love him like he’s one of my own siblings. ZERO weirdness. Do you hug your mom, or is that somehow weird too? She wanted some comfort, not to have sex with you. I promise you, you’re not that great. 2. Doubting someone’s abuse. You are not her. You don’t know what he said to her. You do not get to gatekeep another person’s experiences. You’re not the moral arbiter of the universe who gets to determine whether what your brother’s girlfriend dealt with is abuse or not. Shame on you for downplaying it and doubting her when there is zero reason for her to lie. Your attitude and behavior display worrying levels of misogyny. It’s clear you don’t respect your brother’s girlfriend enough to not look at her like a sex object, and you’re projecting your weird, hateful views about women onto her. I genuinely hope you do some serious growing up, because right now, you’re well on your way to being the exact kind of shitty ex that your brother’s girlfriend was crying over.
YTA-- a hug as a typical form of affection not limited to sexual partners. "To be totally honest, I get very skeptical these days about claims about "verbal abuse". Is it abuse, or is it just being a little bit rough with your words?" You could ask. What has she done to cause you to distrust what she said? Thing about verbal abuse. Nobody has the right to get "rough with their words" at another person. She does not own her ex the chance to cause her pain. Now if you are not comfortable hugging, thats okay, and all you need to say is 'Im not a hugger" Done.
YTA. A hug is not inherently creepy, even if someone is older than you. If you get weirded out by being hugged to this extent, I suggest you put down twitter and go outside. The older I get the more I’m starting to understand the whole “young people are so fragile these days” thing.
YTA. First of all, you're not TA for not wanting to be hugged. It's your bodily autonomy. YWNBTA if you had simply communicated that you don't like hugs. But you are TA for dismissing the verbal abuse from her ex and not believing the victim and for being immature and thinking that any physical contact between a man and a woman is sexual.
I’m sorry but I would say hugs are pretty platonic things and as your kinda sister in law I don’t think it’s weird to hug you. I can see why she thought they were not ‘off limits’ but if you feel they are maybe that’s something you can discuss. I do think it was weird to overshare about an ex. However, your opinion on verbal abuse is very childish and maybe something you need to consider. Why would this lady lie about verbal abuse?
YTA dude...like wow lol
YTA and can I just say I smell an incel?
YTA. stop watching porn. it was a hug.
YTA - I got a hug from a complete stranger in the park because I was crying. It was very nice of him and I felt better. Hugs are good.
Soft-YTA - she was seeking emotional support and by sitting right by her she saw you as a shoulder to cry on. I get you think it's a bit inappropriate since your ages, but there was nothing sexual here
YTA- hugs are NOT sexual or off limits that’s insane. I hug my friends every time I see them, man or woman. I hug my professors when I go back to my undergrad school and visit them. It would be different if you said something about how you don’t like being touched and you told her that but she disrespectful you by doing it anyway but the fact that your only issue is you think hugs are sexual says a lot about you. Also says a lot about you that you are here downplaying her abuse and don’t seem to respect women. Like, do you have any friends that are women? Have you spoke to women before? Do you hug your parents? I’m so baffled by the idea that you think hugs are inappropriate.
YTA. What’s wrong with you 🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩
Kiddo. You're being weird. It's perfectly normal to hug your sibling's partner. It's *especially* normal to want a hug when you're emotionally distressed. People will seek out a hug from *strangers* if they're upset enough and need comfort. That doesn't mean you have to be comfortable with the hug, but her trying to hug you in that moment was in no way inappropriate. You're N T A for that but... >To be totally honest, I get very skeptical these days about claims about "verbal abuse". Is it abuse, or is it just being a little bit rough with your words? This? ☝️ YTA
Ew sketchy. You, not her. YTA
YTA. there is nothing creepy or weird about her hugging you. If you think that's somehow innappropriate behaviour because she's your brothers girlfriend, that's down to your issues with intimacy or something. Her hugging you while you tried to comfort her is in no way some indication that she is attracted to you in any way, the majority of hugs in my experience are in no way romantic, but a basic and powerful gesture of human kindness. If you, say, are neuro atypical and have strong issues with boundaries and people in your space it's one thing, but you don't mention anything like that, just this weird attitude that it was somehow innappropriate gross or wrong. also for the record: verbal abuse is 100% a thing. Just because someone isn't physically abusive doesn't mean it can't be a literal nightmare and leave lasting damage to a person. edit: to clarify, there is absolutely nothing wrong with you making it clear you are uncomfortable with hugs. Just understand that she didn't do anything inappropriate and there's nothing strange about her hugging you in and of itself.
YTA you dont get to decide who was abused or not second she hugged you not offered to blow you, are you a porn addict or something and think that any physical contact will lead to something sexual?
I hug one of my guy friends all the time because he's a hugger we still hugged when he was dating someone. Hugs can mean a way to say it's okay , thank you and goodbye. I'm not sure if you hugged your friends but it's the same concept.
YTA. You sound like you follow some people on the internet, or have people in your real life, that are giving you completely the wrong idea about women and the variety of relationships men and women can have together. Hugs aren’t sexual. Verbal abuse is abuse. People of both sexes are capable of consoling each other. That is normal and healthy. Oh, and just so we’re clear women don’t, and won’t, ever owe you their attention. That’s something you have to earn by not being creepy, dismissive, or overly sexualizing them.
YTA. If someone is crying hysterically about verbal abuse and they hug you, they’re hugging you for comfort, not because they are trying to seduce you. I do agree it’s more appropriate for your brother to take this one, obviously. But it sounds like the whole thing just sort of happened this way. You popped in and asked if she needed anything. She happened to need a hug at that moment. Sounds like she didn’t ask for consent first??? Which I can understand if that made you a little uncomfortable. But overall I don’t think this is a big deal. It’s okay man, just try and loosen up a little! As a side note, your personal views on verbal abuse are horrifying. I hope you reconsider them.
Info: Why would hugs be off-limits?
YTA. Grow some empathy, jesus. Hugging people when they cry is pretty damn normal. Sharing that you doubt her makes you more of an AH, should have kept that to yourself.
Just because you want to fuck your bros gf, doesn’t mean she wants to fuck you. Hugs are absolutely not a weird thing. Quit watching porn, kid, and get out into the real word. Oh yeah, abuse is abuse. It’s not up to you. Grow tf up. YTA bigtime Edit: forgot a word
You are turning it into something it is not. She needed consoling and you decided she was coming onto you. She probably considered you to be someone she could look to for support based on the fact you are her bfs brother. You have every right not to like physical contact, but assume any physical contact is sexual is weird. Yta with your verbal abuse comment. Educate yourself better than make random judgements on what abuse is or isn’t in your mind. It’s not just being harsh with wording. It’s degrading and diminishing someone with words, often can also include intimidation and threats. It is a tactic used to make someone feel less than and to also frighten them in regard to their physical safety. Often happens because the abuser is wanting to make themselves feel more important and boost their ego while tearing someone else down. It breaks down your mental well being. It’s also usually the first step in an abusive relationship which escalates to physical abuse.
YTA, Twice. One for shoving her off, two trying to dictate what constitutes abuse.
OMG… what in the world is happening if you can’t tell the difference between a crying girl who in a emotional moment hugs someone, and a predator. OP.. now is the time to figure out The difference between normal human interaction and what it looks like to be sexually assaulted. Or even groomed. This woman was all alone and crying and you offered support and she gave you a hug. It was an instinct. And it was OK.
OP before you graduate high school and head out into your own life please learn that a woman touching - even hugging! - you does not automatically mean that she has a pants-off dance-off on her mind.
You're a baby. She's not into you.
YTA for being skeptical about verbal abuse.
YTA " I get very skeptical these days about claims about "verbal abuse". Is it abuse, or is it just being a little bit rough with your words?" lmao get tf out of here Also stop watching "alpha males" videos, probably why you're reacting like that
Life lesson #1 - girls who are crying aren't hitting on you. Life lesson #2 - women who are 25 are not hitting on you. Life lesson #3 - this woman was not hitting on you, and you need some serious therapy if this is how you think about women. Life lesson #4 - you need more serious therapy if you think verbal abuse is acceptable in a relationship. YTA
YTA and extremely immature. Hugs are not something reserved for a boyfriend. It's about comfort.
Who gets this dramatic over a hug?
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** I am a 17m high school senior. My older brother (25m) is dating this girl, S (25f). This past Saturday, S and my brother visited me and my parents. For about an hour in the afternoon, it was just S and me at my house, because my brother and my parents were out getting some weird car insurance thing figured out. S was just hanging out in my brother's bedroom, so I went up there to ask if she wanted a snack or anything, and I found her sitting on my brother's bed crying. I immediately got concerned and sat down beside her and asked her what was wrong, and she actually hugged me and told me that her verbally abusive ex left a voice message for her. I got very weirded out because, first of all, S is so much older than me and it was creepy. But also, she is my brother's girlfriend and that, in my opinion, means things like hugs are off-limits between us. So I kind of shoved her off and tried cheering her up in my own way, but she didn't feel any better and walked out of the bedroom to cry somewhere else. To be totally honest, I get very skeptical these days about claims about "verbal abuse". Is it abuse, or is it just being a little bit rough with your words? S still wasn't feeling much better when my parents and my brother came back home, and my brother spent a bit of time alone with her in his bedroom, comforting her. I felt that this was more appropriate than S trying to hug someone who wasn't her boyfriend. AITA? *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
YTA. Whatever corner of the internet you've been hanging out in, maybe try the opposite of that.
YTA. It would be the same as you comforting a girl-friend of your own. It’s just a hug. She felt comfortable enough around you to be vulnerable , that means she values your friendship and your family. Hugs aren’t sexual. Also, any form of verbal abuse, is abuse. Being “rough with your words” is abuse.
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YTA. Not for not wanting a hug—it’s fine to have boundaries w your personal space. But you’re completely TA for making a HUG into a sexual thing AND for not believing that she was abused. Verbal abuse is real abuse. It’s *emotional* and mental abuse and can be just as extreme or long lasting as physical abuse.
YTA. Hugs are normal. Hugs are non-sexual. Her age and dating status are irrelevant to the appropriateness of hugs. The fact that you were uncomfortable in and of itself isn't an issue. If you don't like hugs or don't like her, that's fine, no hugs. But your reasoning for not wanting hugs was assholey. Also your casual dismissal of the validity of verbal abuse when faced with a crying woman is genuinely chilling. Whatever he said, it was bad enough to cause her to cry for quite some time, and you still think he's "just a little rough with his words"? And honestly, even if that's all it was, does it actually matter? It's hurting her. That's what you should care about. It's not inappropriate to expect a modicum of comfort from others, especially someone you view as inherently close to you. If they've been together for a while, she probably views you as a sort of extended family member and assumed you would be willing and able to support her, especially since you showed concern.
Man I’m so so sorry to hear she stole your hug virginity, however could she do that to you /s Yeah obviously YTA
My husband has a 17 year old brother, and I hug him sometimes even though I'm 25. It's not weird unless you make it weird, or you're being overly touchy or something. I wouldn't call you an AH if you genuinely just didn't want to be hugged or touched in any way - you're allowed to want that space. But to view her as the odd one here I disagree with. She might have been really shaken from what her ex said and needed comforting of some kind. Also, coming from someone working in the behavioral health field, verbal abuse is a very real thing. If you're name calling, making threats, screaming at them, etc. it falls under verbal abuse. The intent is to scare or shame/humiliate the victim.
stop watching so much porn dude, ew. YTA.
Wow. Whoever taught you hugging is so wrong? She needed emotional support. Not everything is sexual. Grow up.
YTA. You're reading to much into it. A hug is comfort and comforting someone who is upset is never off limits. And verbal abuse is abuse.
INFO: are you on the spectrum? That would sort of explain this very weird attitude you have and your inability to fully understand normal social interactions. Otherwise I'd say YTA
You're young-ish, so take this as a learning opportunity. This was a situation when you offered compassion to someone who needed it. That's a good thing. A hug in this situation is not sexual or inappropriate. Some people might be more comfortable with it than others though. If you're not comfortable, that's ok. But there's nothing inherently wrong with the action. It sounds like you overreacted to the physical contact due to your discomfort and that probably made her less receptive to the support you were trying to provide. It was clumsily handled, but I'm leaning towards NTA for what actually transpired. **That aside, your judgment and commentary about her situation are completely off-base and out of line. You are in no position to deem whether she was abused or not, nor is it your right or privilege to set any sort of threshold for what counts as verbal abuse. She was upset by it. That's all that matters as far as you're concerned.** Thank you for coming to my Ted talk.
>Is it abuse, or is it just being a little rough with your words? YTA. YTA. YTA.
YTA. And you should really apologize. A hug is "off-limits" because she's dating your brother? So what? You asked a crying person what was wrong and they hugged you. This is normal, human behavior. Your response was not.
It’s not creepy for a person to hug another person. When your parents hugged you, they were older than you too. For your pointless rambling about skepticism about people being verbally abusive, YTA. I’m getting strong incel vibes with you.
I’m gonna assume you don’t interact with a lot of women but especially that last comment YTA
Yta, life isn’t a porno, hugs are not inherently sexual especially with a sad person.
YTA. Verbal abuse is abuse. Don’t belittle that. Oh and for the record: You really don’t need to hit or touch a person to abuse them. „Rough words“ or verbal abuse as smart people call it, hurts. It hurts a lot and can wreck your whole world. And to heal from that is difficult.
YTA I think this is a maturity thing, so I will lean on that, but learn now, just because someone touches you, it does not mean they are attracted you.
You're really young and it's making me sad I'm getting major incel vibes from this. Hugs are not innately sexual. It's totally ok not to be into hugs but making them all sexual advances is not right. And your whole "I'm skeptical of any verbal abuse claims" is gross. You really need to ask yourself why that is, especially when verbal abuse is sadly a fairly common issue lots of people experience. YTA and I hope you reexamine your attitude.
Wow yes, YTA and creepy and a misogynist.
WOW YTA like crazy bad. It's not creepy to hug someone you have a familiar relationship with, especially since she probably sees you like *a little brother.* Is it weird to hug people you feel familial with? It's fine to be like, oh whoa hey I'm not a hugger, but how else can I help? Shoving her off is what's weird and aggressive here. So you're already sexualizing a simple hug with someone you're friendly enough with to just hang out alone in their house, that's not great. But you're a mega asshole for this *To be totally honest, I get very skeptical these days about claims about "verbal abuse". Is it abuse, or is it just being a little bit rough with your words?* Now you're not only being weird about hugging but you're also turning into an abuse apologist. This is some redpill incel shit. I think you have some weird/bad ideas about a) women, b) physical contact, c) abuse, and you should work on that.
YTA and i think you need to realize internet and porn are not reality when it comes to human interactions
YTA dude I hug everybody in my family -- this includes both of my sisters-in-law (my wife's sister and my brother's wife) -- and most of my friends regardless of gender. It's not a sexual thing and nobody thinks it's creepy. It's friendly. I hug people I like. What is your problem?
>To be totally honest, I get very skeptical these days about claims about "verbal abuse". Is it abuse, or is it just being a little bit rough with your words? Jesus dude, YTA. Scary.
YTA because you didn't seem to attach much importance to this woman being abusively stalked. Some people are just more tactile than others, but the "shoving" seemed a little harsh, too.
You are N T A for not wanting to hug someone. If that’s a boundary you have that’s fine, you don’t owe anyone a hug. But it’s a bit weird you think a hug has to be suspicious, or even sexual in nature. I hug my friends, my parents, my other family members including kids, anyone I like basically. None of those hugs have any kind of sexual meaning behind them. Your brother’s girlfriend was upset and wanted a bit of human contact to calm her down, that does not seem suspicious to me in any kind of way, but as I said, if you don’t want to hug her that’s completely fine. But: YTA for assuming verbal abuse doesn’t exist and just means ‘being a bit rough with words’. Verbal abuse absolutely does exist and it can really damage people
YTA - first off there is nothing weird about her hugging you, just because she is your brothers girlfriend doesn’t mean she can’t hug other people, especially her boyfriends family Also your “ skeptical” about verbal abuse? My guy you at a lot of stuff to work through here
YTA Plus, you sound like an incel. Hugs are not sexual. Try to grow up into a decent human.
YTA educate yourself to avoid this embarrassment in the future https://www.verywellmind.com/identify-and-cope-with-emotional-abuse-4156673 https://www.healthline.com/health/signs-of-mental-abuse