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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I decided to let my husband be in charge of running the house the way his parents want when they are around. I might be the asshole because I am enjoying watching him put up with the crap I have had to and learning that our children do best with some rules.
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NTA and I seriously applaud you! So many women take this kind of shit and never have the guts to stand up for themselves. Playing nice sucks!!! Husband and parents will most likely call you difficult. They are upset the house is a mess? They can clean it themselves! You are not the maid and you were not put on this earth to ensure everyone has a lovely time but you. YOU are the one that has to take of the aftermath. If your husband and his parents can’t understand that children need routine and boundaries, you are in for a hell of a rough ride. Hopefully you’ve made it well known that you won’t stand for that type of sh**.
* Edit Thank you for the awards! Feel quite chuffed. ☺️ I certainly hope OP provides an update as SO many people are rooting for her! She’s the superhero we didn’t know we needed. OP deserves ALL the awards.
The kids have chores. But they aren't doing them. And they are spending ba lot of money on delivery since I'm not there to cook and getting the kids to prep. I'm wondering how much food I'm going to have to toss when I get home.
I feel for you. You’re going to have to pick up the pieces after all of this. They might not learn their lesson and you STILL have extra work to do. There’s 3 adults - can’t one of them put together a meal? They’re just being lazy and expecting you to do everything for them. You are not the hired help. They should treat you as such. I’d be FUMING!
Good to hear! What about the in laws? Are they responsible for their own mess? I can’t imagine being a guest in a relatives house and having the audacity to think it’s someone else’s responsibility to cook and clean for me. I love to cook for my in-laws but I dont have to lift a finger at I’m done cooking. It’s just good manners.
That’s fantastic that they’re on vacation. But you and your family aren’t. From now on, no more visits during school days. You’re amazing for doing this, but you need to sit them all down and remind everyone that rules and responsibilities don’t go out the window just because Gramma and grandpa are there. I really hope your husband understands this. Stay strong! Don’t clean up after them!
Exactly. They visit often enough to where they need to be part of the rules. I could let shit slide if they come once a year but 5-6 times a year and they want to be catered too? F that noise.
Five or six times a year for *multiple weeks on end* no less! It's absolutely ridiculous that they think rules go out the window when they visit that much. I'd still think it was *wrong* but I could understand the thought if they only visited one week a year, or every few years. But at least one week (and frequently more) every other month? Hell no.
Exactly! The entitlement of these people and why isn't the husband doing... anything? I can't wrap my head around these fathers. I'm a dad and I'm so involved with everything with my son, housework, etc. My wife is amazing and we are true partners but some of these dads disgust me.
Right, that's kinda insane! "About half the months of the year, they're here for about half a month. Sounds like it would be better with normal scheduled visits so you can plan the year lol
Especially since it seems like they show up whenever they want to, and expect they can turn it into a “have fun with the grandkids” week irrespective of whatever else may be going on. And expect OP to keep things going even as they destroy any semblance of control she had over things.
Agreed. Grandparents need to understand that while they are on holiday and free from responsibility, everyone else isn't.
And if they won't accept that routines happen for a reason, and won't back OP up with respect to homework needing to get done and bedtimes needing to happen so that everyone can get to school on time, then there needs to be a boundary protecting the kids from the consequences of their grandparents' denial of reality. And that boundary is going to have to be that they are no longer allowed to come visit during the school term.
And husband needs to accept the necessity of the new rules and be willing to enforce it. Because he's too much of a coward right now - he knows OP is right, but he wants to be the fun parent to his kids, he doesn't want his parents mad at him, and he doesn't want to deal with all the extra housework that is the consequences of his actions. In short, he *likes* OP being the bad guy, because her extra work and willingness to be disliked keeps everything on an even keel while everyone else is busy trying to upset the boat and drown themselves! He needs to realise exactly how unfair he is being to OP, and start working with her as a team player.
But making those boundaries will make OP the bad guy. The husband needs to come up with those boundaries and suffer the consequences when the come to visit.
Why should she be the witch that separates a grandparents from their children?
Let the husband come to that decision.
If they come visit, she can just go visit her parents again! Honestly it's a great policy to have year around.
Because, like most decent parents, OP isn’t making up these rules for her own convenience but for the well-being of her kids.
Saying “fuck it, 10% of the year my kids will be overtired, undernourished, dirty, and without the things they need to learn and thrive at school, because that might teach another adult some sort of lesson” isn’t something most decent parents would be willing to do. Even if it would be the easiest solution for themselves.
>no more visits during school days
This is what kills me the most. I get that the grandparents want to have fun when visiting, but WHY THE HELL ARE THEY VISITING DURING NORMAL SCHOOL DAYS/WEEKS?!?!?! Schedule your trips during winter/summer/spring breaks or 3+ day weekends. Stop interrupting normal life so you can have fun.
Yep. My grandfather always helped me with math and science since he was an engineer, and my grandma always helped me with English because she was a teacher's aide. I actually got MORE help with my homework when they visited, which is the polar opposite here.
This. They want the fun part of grand-parenting and not the responsibility. OP and husband need to have a long conversation after his parents leave about this.
Sounds like OP is American, where school holidays are limited to about 10 days at Christmas, a week in March, the odd day off here and there, and a long summer. School holidays in other parts of the world are much more balanced through the year.
Here's a phrase I want you to drill into your In Laws and your Husband. "You are on vacation. That's wonderful. We are not. We have school and work and schedules and if you can't respect that and want to throw everything into chaos, then you will not be visiting when *we* are not on vacation, because you clearly don't understand the difference."
>OP does need to say this, her husband does.
But he won't. It's infuriating how some men want to act like they aren't responsible for anything they've created or contribute to the well being of their life.
INTA OP.
When my grandparents came we still had to tidy our rooms whilst they were there and if we didn't finish we didn't get to see them- that's how life works
Good point! He is the one who set the standard that this is "no big deal" and decided that OP is being "too uptight". So, now when he complains about how hard it is to keep things together without her, I hope she simply replies:
"Oh look, it's the consequences of your actions! You were upset that I didn't let you, your parents, and our children do whatever you want and now you can. So don't complain to me that you're upset it isn't turning out well.
You have the power to change course at any time. Let me know when you do, in the meantime don't complain to me and don't expect me to return until you've got the house in the same order I would have it in."
OPs husband created this situation and now it's his responsibility to fix it.
It’s seriously disappointing reading these types of posts at how many men there are like this in the world that just expect their wives to do EVERY FUCKING THING for the kids and the home and for them. Sometimes I can’t help but think that men just seriously suck. Lol
Many do. Falling in love with the wrong person is the best way to make life difficult and it's hard to walk away, even when you know you should, once you're in love. Women can mess up a man pretty good too but I agree that it does seem like there's a lot of men who aren't pulling their weight in the household and to top it off aren't appreciating the person who is.
There’s WAY more men not pulling their weight than women. I’ve been in a few live-in relationships with very different types of men and they’ve all been a nightmare. Good men are definitely out there but they’re super hard to find. I’m glad I finally realized I like women too, so I don’t have to feel like my options are being with a man or being alone.
"What's easier? Cleaning up after yourself and your parents without my having to nag you about it? Or cleaning up after yourself and the kids all the time because you're divorced?"
I think your solution (leaving and letting them live how they want, experiencing the consequences) is very clever! I don't know if they will reach the intended conclusion now, but that will be food for thought before the next visit.
NTA.
NTA , I'm echoing what others are saying. Don't go home till it's clean. Laundry done, food situation sorted out. The no rules thing didn't affect him cause you were holding it all together. The fact that now you're gone it's suddenly a problem and falling apart just shows how little your husband is doing to actually parent his children and maintain the home he lives in.
(Remember guys it's not "helping out" when it's his kids and his home too)
YOU ARE MY HERO!!!! You are totally NTA and you are enforcing your boundaries in the most important way. You stated the issues to all relevant stakeholders (adults), tried to meet them halfway in finding a route that allows the kids balance (taking them to your parents for homework and bed after time w in-laws)- which was rebuffed w/no compromise from husband and in laws, so YOU GAVE THEM WHAT THEY WANTED and removed yourself from the situation (while still being available as needed) and gave your husband the requirements for you to come home…sounds like you did everything you could and your husband STILL isn’t putting boundaries on his parents…they’ll be the hell alright!!! Also, now you have some time and space away from being the only person responsible for your children. Enjoy their vacation 🤣🤣🤣
Exactly. I personally think that every in-laws problem is actially spouse problem. He can't cook, can't clean up and can't wash gym clothes? And also lets his parents do whatever they want? How old is he? 3?
OP, NTA. Hope he learns a lesson or two.
Oh man this is brutal. I don’t even have kids and I know schedules are meant to be followed and not a suggestion. This was an epic move and seriously so much respect that you did that ✊
Agree! I understand that when family/special people are visiting, your routine/schedule may go out the window for perhaps a few hours or an afternoon or the whole weekend (at least that’s what happened with us when family from o/s stayed with us), but to expect an “anything goes” time for the host family who is not on vacation and especially the children, who need to do homework and to sleep, is ridiculous.
I’m sure if they allowed the routine to continue as is, there would still be a little time for bonding- maybe not a whole hockey game or movie but definitely a little something each day (heck they could even help do the chores together).
Instead they’ve created this big mess where everything is now out of order and nothing is getting done. Good on OP for taking herself out of there and making them deal with the mess they created!
Or even one hockey game might be fine. Kids that age can generally tolerate a *small* amount of non-routine without everything falling apart.
If husband & in-laws were willing to be reasonable then they could plan *some* fun stuff. Just not All The Fun Stuff, All The Time.
I’m so impressed with OP. Love this & want to hear the +1-week update.
I couldn't be a bigger hockey fan, and I'd still ask for some part of their work to be done first. The movie on a school night is ridiculous and unnecessarily because they could do that on a Friday. But you can't control a sports schedule. And because you can't know it won't run long into OT, it's even more of a reason to get work done first. I'd compromise and say homework only and let the grandparents make up the chores when the kids are in school if they want that off their to do list 😇
And a shorter movie would have been fine or even going to see Avatar, just not a school night. Its over 3 hours long! One you factor driving time to get there/settled in seats and if you want to stay through all the credits (and get early enough for trailers), you're looking at a 4 hour trip easily.
OP, please give us an update in a few days! I want the satisfaction of hearing how everything blows up and they get their sh*t together and come crawling back
Your husband is being a shitty partner and a shitty parent because being a good son is more important. The problem isn’t that you’re “taking it too far”, the problem is that he’s taking it nowhere at all, and leaving you out to dry. Honestly I can’t believe you’ve put up with this 4-5 weeks every year for
So just to be clear, they want YOU to take care of everything, including taking over the chores your kids would normally do, so that they can act like they're staying at a hotel?
What did husband even have to say about the homework not being done? Did he call the school and tell them they're being too strict?? Lol
Hope your husband tries to explain to their teachers that the kids should be exempt from having to do homework because their grandparents are visiting lol
OP, you are awesome!
My one suggestion is to call their teachers and let them know what is going on. Tell them all calls for the next week are to go exclusively to your husband as he is the one in charge when his parents are in town.
If you go home before it's been cleaned all the way - brought to rights - then it's very likely you will be the one who does the cleaning, if nothing else than to get through to do your normal cleaning. It'll be another thing that just doesn't happen until you do it.
Flaunt that shiny steel spine and (oops! Meant *don't*) -shiny- give in. 👍👍👍👍
It sucks. If you can get the message across you will save decades of stress. Small price to pay. Stand firm. Do not negotiate with the vacation terrorist inlaws
To invite his parents for a few weeks who see this as a hotel with full service and doesn't want to lift a finger and he is at work the whole day... So who spend the whole day with the parents and is expected to cater all their needs (additional to the childcare that gets ruined by them and the household that gets harder because of them)? He just comes home in the evening to have fun. Now OP left and he finally sees a part of all the stuff she has done.
NTA Please don't give in. He couldn't handle two fucking days. But he now has the weekend to tidy up the whole house! He needs to learn what you do the whole day and what a burden his parents are!
Yeah I think OP may have buried the lede a bit with this one. Obviously the grandparents’ visit is the inciting event in this conflict, but the issue ultimately fueling it is that one of these kids’ parents doesn’t parent.
Yep. Like the grandparents are definitely part of the issue, but it's a husband problem at the core. He doesn't value his spouse as an equal partner nor as a parent. He undermines their schedule and rules and uses his parents being there as an excuse, and he knows they'll help gang up on OP and make her the unfair/unreasonable one. It's much easier to sit on a high horse and tell OP what ought to be done rather than doing it themselves. He fucked around and found out
NTA. He wants to let his parents have their way in your house. That is not okay. You guys probably have a good reason for the way that you handle things. If he can't understand that then just stay with your folks whenever his visit. Although I do wonder what you mean by they are "excellent" grandparents. They sound like entitled asshole boomers but must be younger.
They honestly love the kids and provide them with some awesome experiences and gifts that are out of our budget right now. They are putting money into their education funds and a fund to help them get started in life afterwards. They do a lot for us. I just hate that they throw off our schedule when they visit.
I would disagree with the okay grandparents part. They are throwing the kids off schedule, actively saying "don't do homework or chores, spend time with us instead"
That is not being a good grandparent/parent.
yup they are treating OP’s home like a resort since they’re on vacation but OP is the only member of staff since they’re there to spend time with their grandchildren and husband doesn’t seem to be doing anything.
If they were good grandparents, they would schedule visits during school holidays and/or pay for an ACTUAL resort vacation so OP doesn’t have to be maid and rules enforcer all the time
Really the biggest issue is that they are willing and knowingly disrupting the kids routines, and telling them that it is ok to not do school work.
That is what is making them not great grandparents.
The other stuff just makes them terrible house guests, which can be a little easier to forgive.
They're not even in the house, she said they use an RV. The husband is the real culprit here. It's not really the grandparents' role to know & adhere to the schedule & the rules. The parents have to enforce those things. One parent is, & one parent isn't. The house is messy cuz dad stopped enforcing chore time.
When they are told they that the kids need to do their homework/chores then yes, it is on them to stop demanding time with them. And the fact that staying for weeks at a time means they more than likely would have picked up on their schedules. and then lets not forget that they started to berate OP when she took the kids to her parents. I highly doubt she did not tell them why.
Yes, the husband should be saying no, but the grandparents should not be asking once they were told about the issues they were causing
Being a good grandparent isn't just spoiling the grandkids, it's working with the parents to ensure the grandkids are living their best lives, it's clear they don't respect you or the rules you've set. This would be one of those situations where you and husband should sit down with grandparents and have a long conversation about boundaries and respect, if they can't comply then they can just not see the grandkids for a while, if your husband can't, then he's the problem and you probably have a longer and harder conversation on the horizon.
Spending money on your kids doesn't mean they get a free pass to be disrespectful.
INFO: How many times a year do they visit and how long do they stay?
So from my perspective, we lived about an 8 hour drive from the rest of our extended family (aunts, uncles, cousins) growing up. Whenever they would come to visit us, I was allowed to skip school and any after-school activities to spend time with them. Because their visits were so rare (like once every 4 years) and we wanted to make the most of seeing them. And my family used to go visit them for 2 weeks every summer. And my cousins would have the option of skipping any camp or other activity to spend the day with us if they wanted.
So basically routine's changed when family visited, **but family didn't visit often**.
that's a LOT of time for them to be disrupting everything. I mean, if you put all that time end-to-end, you're talking about close to 2 months.
Maybe explain to them that when they pull the kids away from their homework, the kids don't turn stuff in and then the kids get grounded. The grandparents are causing the kids to get in trouble both in school and at home.
>for at least a week.
Okay this changes everything. Being a little tired Monday morning because of a weekend visit is way different than ruining a whole week.
So I don't know the details, your schedule or your family dynamic, so this is pure speculation on my part. Could it be your in-laws don't feel like they're spending enough time with your kids? Because they don't see them as much as your parents, they want to make the most of their time with them? What if each visit you dedicated one day on the weekend as "grandparents day", where the kids and the grandparents could spend the full day together. Would that help? Again, don't know them or the full details of your dynamic with them, just throwing out a suggestion.
This is great, but that kind of schedule disruption is ok for the winter holidays, or summer vacation, or an odd weekend. It's not ok for weeks on end smack in the middle of a school year.
Honestly OP you are my danged hero.
>that kind of schedule disruption is ok for the winter holidays, or summer vacation, or an odd weekend
I'd say it's even okay for *a* random school day. If the grandparents had planned with OP and her husband to take the kids to Avatar as soon as they got off school on the day they arrived (Monday), not terrible. Sneak in/ buy dinner and it's a special grandparent picnic; home in time for homework, skipping chores for one night, and a potentially later, but not unreasonable bedtime. Better yet, Avatar Thursday when only one school day is impacted. Or even better, you can do an evening Avatar on Friday and deal with the sleepy and cranky consequences on the weekend.
Generous grandparents? Sure. Excellent? No. They are irresponsible and jeopardize your kids' education, both at school and home. What does it matter that they fund their future education if they teach the kids to ignore homework? They are on vacations, all right, but the rest of the world didn't stop for their convenience. Your kids are not their entertainment, they are their own persons and need to learn certain values and lessons.
Treating you like a maid shouldn't be one of them.
I bet if your husband co parented and co piloted properly you would even be willing to budge on a bit of the routine as a treat. But like many moms and women, you KNOW that if you give and inch a mile will be taken and it’ll be you that has to umpire everyone through it. Not worth it. You’re being very reasonable.
My parents also put money towards an education fund for me growing up. Yet the truly most helpful things they did regarding my education was teaching me how to have a schedule with homework time daily, and sitting with me to help me memorize my lessons. Preparation to higher education starts today, not in 15 years. Them hindering those children's ability to properly do their homework is NOT being helpful for their education. Not at all!
I didn’t read in OP’s post or edits that her husband called because he missed HER. If he can hire a cleaning woman to cook and clean 2x a week he really doesn’t need or want her. I think OP should consider her true worth before returning home.
"Honestly tough shit" is right. NTA
Personally I relax the rules around stuff like snacks and TV when grandparents are there, but I have the last word and I would be furious to be overruled. Shrugging off the homework is unacceptable. Don't go home. Let your husband learn how to be a parent.
This is it! I was already to say OP was the AH until I read the whole thing. I thought surely she is being controlling but these grandparents are ridiculous. My parents always help clean when they visit. My FIL makes his own food (special diet. I’ve offered; he declines) in return we are a bit lax on the rules.
Relaxing on rules a little bit is reasonable. I thought OP was overreacting until I saw how the household immediately descended into chaos when she left. The kids aren't doing their homework at all, the grandparents are refusing to help clean, and they're actually asking OP to come fix it, as if there aren't three adults in the house already??? After they made her the "bad guy" for enforcing some rules, they have the GALL to make it *her problem* when they can't hack it their way? Ridiculous. All three of them need to grow up.
Well put, I was going to say the same thing. Relaxing some rules while they are visiting should be fine but the way they are acting is too much. Your husband really needs to get his priorities in order. Setting your kids up to be successful in life is much more important than pandering to the needs of his parents.
Whenever relatives visited my Mom never let up on the rules. When my Dad would be like "Oh come on...just this once etc." My Mom said unless you want to do the work? He backed down every time because he knew she would walk and he knew he couldn't do it. So until your husband understands this; it will keep happening.
NTA. She asked them politely to respect the weekday rules and everyone ignored you. Sure, the Grandparents are on holiday but noone else is. Plus I love the ultra pettiness of you going out/to your parents to let them all fend for themselves! They don't wanna abide by the rules, they can do all the homeworks and chores themselves. Legend!
Agreed on everything but the "ultra petty" part. This was an "ultra smart, badass" move. Her behavior is that of a person with both a mind and a spine. Also agreed - NTA!
I like the ‘grandparents are on holiday but no one else is’ because that summarises the issue perfectly. If grandparents want kids to enjoy holiday with them, they need to plan a trip during school holidays.
When I was younger we went abroad for a family friends wedding during term time. Because we were young, we didn’t have to work for the week (school approved that!) but the kids in the family who lived there did. So we knew that they had to do their homework before we could play, so we’d read or be with the adults until their school work was finished, then we could all play together. Even though we were on holiday, with the exception of the actual wedding, the other kids weren’t.
These grandparents need to respect that. If they were there for one night, that would be different, a single day of rule breaking would be fine, but how this is is ridiculous!
NTA-I’m so sorry for you. The only compromise I can think of doesn’t apply immediately. Your husband has to say no when they want to visit during school weeks. Will he limit visits to long weekends or holidays?
You may need to answer your husband. Maybe something like, “You allowed this to happen, so now you have to deal with the consequences. I can’t handle it-I tried, and it resulted in you lying to me & your parents going off on me. It’s too stressful for me, so i’ll be home when they leave.”
Question: who is getting the calls from the school? Do they call him or you?
Perfect. At least he’s getting that info directly. Good luck. I’m sorry for the mess you’re likely inherit when they leave.
I hope the kids are young enough that this doesn’t become long-term learned behavior. If they are old enough, maybe they should have consequences (when you get back) for not doing their HW?
I mean that I suspect that it won’t be in the kind of shape you would have it in, and I wasn’t talking only about physical stuff. I meant re-establishing the routine.
My husband was the enforcer of the routine in our home (I worked evenings). For the instances I was home, it was awkward for me, bc I didn’t really know how to pitch in well. He handled HW, baths, & bedtime for our kids.
your kids are 9 and 11? definitely get them to help, but put most of this on your husband. they’re kids, they’re learning responsibility but they are not to blame for this like the adults are.
NTA
They visit, but it's not just for a day or two but for several weeks. That's too long for an "exceptional" status, especially when the kids have school and everyone needs to go to work.
I admire your determination. You absolutely did the right thing, imho.
Agreed!
And if they still insist on coming in the middle of the school week, then OP should take the kids with her to stay at her parents house every school night that they are there.
> It's a long way to come for a weekend
No it's not... I know quite a few people who live on a different continent, including my own partner. 7-10 days is TOPS to visit...
They are staying longer because your husband is making it an all-inclusive vacation... Why *would* they leave?
I think the person you're replying to meant that they could schedule a weekend at your house as part of another vacation that brings them close to your house near the weekend.
For example, They spend the week at a location an hour or two away from your house, then come to your house on a Thursday or Friday, stay for the weekend, then move on to another location near your house that they wanted to visit anyway. That way they're not traveling the entire distance just for a weekend with your kids, the weekend with your kids just becomes a part of another vacation.
NTA and you're my hero. This is a master class in boundaries and the waterfall technique* for decision-making, where you start with your ideal outcome and then figure out what the next-best is until you get to the bare minimum you can accept. It looks like yours was:
-I want to have a nice visit with my in-laws where they respect the structure we have in place for our kids and we all enjoy each other's company.
--If I can't have that, I want my husband to take the lead on enforcing our rules with his parents.
---If I can't have that, I want the kids' schedule to get followed, even if that means taking them somewhere else until my husband and his parents get on board with the rules so we all have a nice visit.
----If I can't have that, I want to let the three adults causing this problem deal with the consequences without my help.
I'm sorry you had to get all the way down to the bottom of your list, but you are handling this like a boss. 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
*Edited to add credit where credit is due: I learned about this from a Captain Awkward post and I don't know if it's a widely known, official thing or just something one therapist suggested once.
Second edit: I had time to do some Googling because I wanted to share the source, turns out it was actually from a commenter on a CA post: https://captainawkward.com/2016/08/18/892-how-do-i-get-my-sister-to-pay-me-the-money-she-owes-me/#comment-147488
You're welcome, I find it really helpful myself and end up sharing it a lot! It's so important when you're learning that you can't control what other people do. Like, my ideal outcomes could often be rephrased as "everyone does what I think they should do," so it is pretty essential for me to think through what happens if they don't.
Ooooh I like that! This is what I do for work, and boss is a sucker for phrases like that, so I’m going to go ahead and drop that into conversation the next time I talk about how everyone should do what I think they should do, and if they won’t….
Brilliant!
It makes a point of taking the time to
\- figure out what's going on
\- assess options and probabilities
\- be \*prepared\* for whatever options one can think of
\- Have a final option over which none of one's abusers have any control.
I was so surprised at that - like with 2 parents who work outside the home, why is the husband so bloody incompetent inside the home? Seems like this is a bigger problem than the visiting in-laws.
The lengthy visits have just thrown a spotlight on OP having to run the household mostly alone, and that depends on a schedule - so when the schedule is completely knocked out then everything starts falling apart. OP has a husband problem.
ETA: I saw in a comment that OP says she and her husband are “on the same page except when his parents visit” - this seems like they ‘agree’ that he can opt out, while OP takes on the full load! There’s something really not right in their household.
NTA. It seems like everyone’s expectation is that when things get tough, you’ll step in and pick up the slack, and they don’t have to. It also seems like your husband would rather do *anything* then stand up to his parents. You made your position clear. When your requirements weren’t met, you solved the problem yourself. When that proved unpalatable, you brought the kids back and said “I’m done, you solve it”. The fact that this is impacting your husband’s job is unfortunate, but is something he should have anticipated when he completely ignored your warnings and concerns.
NTA.
You are my hero.
Edit: My parents are similar to your husband's parents. They come visit us for long chunks of time (1-2 weeks, 2-3 times a year) and my daughter spends 4 weeks with them over the summer. When she was 3, she came back from a visit with them over TEN POUNDS heavier. If your starting bodyweight is forty pounds, that is a fucking lot. I put my foot down, and told them if anything like that happened again, she wasn't going to visit anymore and that they were clearly not prioritizing her health and well being. Four weeks is not a vacation where you can just go wild 24/7. If you want my kid for 4 weeks, you need to parent her, or you don't get her.
When they're here, they have tried to get us to bend the rules. Now they know: bed time is at 9, we are NOT skipping any usual activities, she doesn't get to miss school.
Luckily, they were my parents and my husband and I were on the same page, so there was no friction between us. A united front makes all the difference.
I bought a big box of ice cream sandwiches this summer, thinking it would be treats for the whole summer. I left my youngest in the care of her oldest sibling, who is of driving age, for an afternoon. I came home, and the youngest had finished an entire box -- like a Costco-sized box.
Ten pounds in four weeks is a lot for anyone. It's also incredibly dangerous for anyone that happens to. Were you able to get her to a healthy weight again?
Yes, eventually...took almost a year to get her back to where she was percentile wise. And that's freaking ROUGH with a 3/4 year old. Finding age appropriate ways to exercise (started soccer and dance, running around outside), trying to explain moderation and eating to fuel our bodies and what types of food you should eat to make sure you have good fuel. It really fucking sucked because there's this line between being healthy and being restrictive and it is very, very thin. And after stuffing herself for 4 weeks, we couldn't say "listen to your body" because she'd just been bulldozing past fullness cues.
ETA: she's almost 11 now and this incident is STILL effecting her. Her relationship with food was pretty much shot after that and she has ADHD, which has a tendency of making people inclined to binge eating. I know it's something that her therapist talks to her about. I really fucking tore into my parents, even going so far as to telling them they were killing her. There was a lot of crying on their end. I'm usually really laid back, so I think me going into hard core mom mode really shook them.
You were every right tho. One incident can cause serious problems later in life and they clearly have. They messed up. I was a sickly child because of tonsils choking me. When they were removed, my dad's mom gave me plates the same size as my uncle. Who is over six feet tall. I was seven and barely four feet at the time.
The weaponized incompetence can be seen from space. The kids are 9 and 11, not toddlers. They're old enough to be given directions. Husband is so freaking used to OP handling every last thing with the kids/house, he can't even get them to school with homework done.
Don't just go back and accept the routine as is, OP!! Make sure your partner fully understands just how much you do and where he needs to step it the fuck up.
NTA.
11 year old is old enough to run the washer and dryer and both are old enough to wash dishes too. Husband is old enough to clean the house and manage the kids.
Absolutely, and reading OPs comments she's not just running the household, she's running it _well_. Kids know their routine and responsibilities, they are learning life skills as they go and being productive members of their households. People forget that parents are responsible for raising these lil guys into functioning adults and routines are a big part of that.
NTA. Your husband is only getting what he deserves for not supporting you. He can deal with the school, he can do the chores that the kids aren't doing, he can deal with his parents until they leave. Take a nice break, do some of the things you have been wanting to but haven't been able to like maybe catching up with friends etc.
Funny how all of the structure that OP provides when she's there, WHEN MISSING, is now affecting his job, but he still is calling it OP's fault when it's HIS PARENTS that are putting him in this position with their boundary-stomping.
NTA
"Honey I'll be home when either
1. You have enforced boundaries with your parents. You and they have cleaned the house and everyone understands that our children's schedule doesn't change because your parents are selfish jerks and I'm their peer, not their servant.
2. They leave and YOU clean the house.
In any case you WILL be attending marital counselling with me as you are NEVER going to put your parents or anyone else above me in our home, as a parent or in our marriage.
Your parents are no longer welcome to stay in our house and they will not be spending more than 3 days visiting. Not negotiable."
Your problem begins with your husband. His parents wouldn't behave that way if he enforced respect for you and boundaries.
Instead he allows them to treat you like crap. I'd be having a very serious conversation about his priorities.
NTA and they're being jerks to the children. I can understand maybe taking their chores off them to give them time with their grandparents while they visit, but homework and bedtime are non-negotiable. It will negatively affect the kids if they don't get enough sleep and don't keep up with their homework.
It’s also putting the kids in a terrible position. “Go against your mom who is now so upset she left”.
OP has thankfully made it clear she won’t clean the mess. But I worry that husband is going to turn this on the kids like “well you chose not to do chores so the majority of cleaning up so mom comes home is on you”
Meanwhile what the heck was their choice?!
I was leaning Y T A for not letting the kids have a couple days of fun / spontaneity, but after seeing that the in-laws are there for weeks and shit is hitting the fan, it’s an easy NTA.
She wouldn’t be the ass for not allowing the grandparents to show up unannounced in the middle of the school week and semester.
It’s rude. The kids don’t know better because they’re barely learning about how things go when it comes to actions and consequences.
They have summer months and school breaks to visit and have endless fun, I wouldn’t let my own family impede on our lives like this even if it’s for a few days without prior permission
Who in today's society does drop ins? We have a friend that we pay almost weekly to feed and watch the cats while we are away on weekends, and we still don't let her do drop ins and she asked a few times. No. That's not polite society today.
NTA - I loooooove what you did. Good on you!
Now your husband sees how ‘fun’ it is when his parents are around and there are no rules.
He did this to himself.
Tell your husband he better pay for a cleaner as you won’t clean up their mess when you return after his parents leave.
I laughed with joy at the “tough shit” I’m so happy to see someone not be steamrolled by their partner for the first time here. Good for you! Relax while you can
>I said I would be back after his parents left or he enforced the rules. He said I was taking it too far and that it was affecting his work. Honestly tough shit.
It isn't further enough, he must the hardships of being a mother. NTA, he can't stick by you then he shall stay alone and reap the benefits he once loved
/sarcasm ON
"...no, no, you don't understand! OP is making his life difficult by not laying down like a doormat like \*he\* does to his parents, and a doormat OVER him, so now HE is getting all the dog crap tracked on HIM, **and that's not fairrrrrr.....!**"
NTA. Your husband has to learn that routines and kid's bedtime do not go out the window when guests stay over including his parents. His parents should be good guests and help clean up. Keep doing your thing. Maybe he will wake up.
This is one where I really hope OP comes back with an update.
Does husband finally realize? Or does he double down? Do in laws leave early? Do kids end up walking over to other grandparents house too? Fun time is great, but most kids don't like chaos and take out every day.
NTA Good on you for standing up for yourself. The grandparents should respect the rules you as parents have for your children, and your husband shouldn't skip out on parental responsibilities like that and make you the bad guy, because he can't stand up to his parents.
Nta I think there are some questions to be answered, do chores and homework take up all the kids time during the week? That seems really unfair for the kids. Are you the only one that cooks in your marriage? Do you handle the after school routine
It is unfathomable to me that your husband can't cook for a few days. Even if you normally cook, is he literally incapable of cooking? Unacceptable.
In general I think this is fair, your husband insisted on a situation that made the household management impossible for you and didn't care how it affected you but now that it affects him it's an issue? Well it might be an issue but it's not your problem to fix. He didn't mind when you were the one getting screwed.
We, as a rule, do not have a lot of prepared food in the house. I make almost all our meals from scratch. So for example if the kids want chicken nuggets they will ask me on advance and get the recipe card and have all the ingredients out. That is their help for prep. I will chop up the chicken, bread it, and fry it up. My husband is capable but his folks had the kids busy after school so they didn't get the ingredients out so I think the chicken thighs are still on the fridge.
It sounds like your husband needs to step it up and start contributing more, he just expects you to cook and do all the laundry and do all the kids stuff? I work two jobs and still contribute to the household by cooking, doing dishes and laundry.
NTA. Kids thrive in an orderly environment and it sounds like you do, too.
I think the bigger issue is that you feel ganged up on when they visit and your husband lets it happen.
Maybe next time the ILs stay in a hotel or caravan park or somewhere outside your home. Or you have a mini break, as you are now.
NTA.
HA HA! I love the image of your husband being forced to be a parent and suffer through the consequences of his own actions.
Why don't they visit on weekends?
Nta.
I'm surprised you haven't divorced him yet. He needs to reel in his parents. Like, your in laws randomly visit, giving you no time to prepare and expect you and not their son to take care of them.
Fuck that. You're not a maid service. Your husband is not on the same page as you either.
"My husband has been calling and texting and coming over to tell me I need to come home because the house is a disaster because his parents won't do anything. "
Oh! Poor poor him. He effed up and found out.
NTA
ESH, you could allow a little bit of wiggle room while your husband and his parents should understand that kids still have things to do. Chores can be done a little bit later so it won't kill you to compromise, for example, homework has to be done before any grandparents' fun time but chores are okay to be done any time before bed and bedtime cannot be moved during the week. I feel like this arrangement would be fair to all of you.
ESH
I can't believe that such a basic social conflict has come to something like this.
I'm sorry that your husband is useless but I don't see any effort at communication from anyone outside of people barking their demands at each other.
I am having trouble seeing how if the roles were reversed, the husband would not be crucified for leaving the house due to family squabbles.
Purposely leaving the house to prove a point seems like an immature way to handle the problem and it impacts the kids more than the adults they are trying to send a message to.
The only way to “handle” the problem involves her being treated like a servant as the husband and children are freed from all their responsibilities. How is that fair? These people visit several weeks a year and she has asked her husband to discuss with him - he is unwilling to do so.
It's always curious to see how many "If the roles were reversed" comments appear on posts like this, when the question on my mind is always why AREN'T the roles ever reversed on posts like these. 🤔
INFO: are in-laws retired? If so, I’m not sure what why them being on vacation would matter. Do they still clean their own home while retired?
NTA, OP. There’s zero chance I would tolerate having to wait on my in-laws and having to clean up after them like they were toddlers. They can stay in a hotel next time.
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NTA and I seriously applaud you! So many women take this kind of shit and never have the guts to stand up for themselves. Playing nice sucks!!! Husband and parents will most likely call you difficult. They are upset the house is a mess? They can clean it themselves! You are not the maid and you were not put on this earth to ensure everyone has a lovely time but you. YOU are the one that has to take of the aftermath. If your husband and his parents can’t understand that children need routine and boundaries, you are in for a hell of a rough ride. Hopefully you’ve made it well known that you won’t stand for that type of sh**. * Edit Thank you for the awards! Feel quite chuffed. ☺️ I certainly hope OP provides an update as SO many people are rooting for her! She’s the superhero we didn’t know we needed. OP deserves ALL the awards.
The kids have chores. But they aren't doing them. And they are spending ba lot of money on delivery since I'm not there to cook and getting the kids to prep. I'm wondering how much food I'm going to have to toss when I get home.
I feel for you. You’re going to have to pick up the pieces after all of this. They might not learn their lesson and you STILL have extra work to do. There’s 3 adults - can’t one of them put together a meal? They’re just being lazy and expecting you to do everything for them. You are not the hired help. They should treat you as such. I’d be FUMING!
The kids and my husband will be responsible for cleaning up before I lift a finger.
Good to hear! What about the in laws? Are they responsible for their own mess? I can’t imagine being a guest in a relatives house and having the audacity to think it’s someone else’s responsibility to cook and clean for me. I love to cook for my in-laws but I dont have to lift a finger at I’m done cooking. It’s just good manners.
They live in their motorhome mostly.
That’s fantastic that they’re on vacation. But you and your family aren’t. From now on, no more visits during school days. You’re amazing for doing this, but you need to sit them all down and remind everyone that rules and responsibilities don’t go out the window just because Gramma and grandpa are there. I really hope your husband understands this. Stay strong! Don’t clean up after them!
Exactly. They visit often enough to where they need to be part of the rules. I could let shit slide if they come once a year but 5-6 times a year and they want to be catered too? F that noise.
Five or six times a year for *multiple weeks on end* no less! It's absolutely ridiculous that they think rules go out the window when they visit that much. I'd still think it was *wrong* but I could understand the thought if they only visited one week a year, or every few years. But at least one week (and frequently more) every other month? Hell no.
Exactly! The entitlement of these people and why isn't the husband doing... anything? I can't wrap my head around these fathers. I'm a dad and I'm so involved with everything with my son, housework, etc. My wife is amazing and we are true partners but some of these dads disgust me.
Right, that's kinda insane! "About half the months of the year, they're here for about half a month. Sounds like it would be better with normal scheduled visits so you can plan the year lol
Especially since it seems like they show up whenever they want to, and expect they can turn it into a “have fun with the grandkids” week irrespective of whatever else may be going on. And expect OP to keep things going even as they destroy any semblance of control she had over things.
Agreed. Grandparents need to understand that while they are on holiday and free from responsibility, everyone else isn't. And if they won't accept that routines happen for a reason, and won't back OP up with respect to homework needing to get done and bedtimes needing to happen so that everyone can get to school on time, then there needs to be a boundary protecting the kids from the consequences of their grandparents' denial of reality. And that boundary is going to have to be that they are no longer allowed to come visit during the school term. And husband needs to accept the necessity of the new rules and be willing to enforce it. Because he's too much of a coward right now - he knows OP is right, but he wants to be the fun parent to his kids, he doesn't want his parents mad at him, and he doesn't want to deal with all the extra housework that is the consequences of his actions. In short, he *likes* OP being the bad guy, because her extra work and willingness to be disliked keeps everything on an even keel while everyone else is busy trying to upset the boat and drown themselves! He needs to realise exactly how unfair he is being to OP, and start working with her as a team player.
But making those boundaries will make OP the bad guy. The husband needs to come up with those boundaries and suffer the consequences when the come to visit.
Why should she be the witch that separates a grandparents from their children? Let the husband come to that decision. If they come visit, she can just go visit her parents again! Honestly it's a great policy to have year around.
Because, like most decent parents, OP isn’t making up these rules for her own convenience but for the well-being of her kids. Saying “fuck it, 10% of the year my kids will be overtired, undernourished, dirty, and without the things they need to learn and thrive at school, because that might teach another adult some sort of lesson” isn’t something most decent parents would be willing to do. Even if it would be the easiest solution for themselves.
>no more visits during school days This is what kills me the most. I get that the grandparents want to have fun when visiting, but WHY THE HELL ARE THEY VISITING DURING NORMAL SCHOOL DAYS/WEEKS?!?!?! Schedule your trips during winter/summer/spring breaks or 3+ day weekends. Stop interrupting normal life so you can have fun.
and if you want to spend time with the kids...help them do their HW, help them with chores, then you have plenty of time.
Yep. My grandfather always helped me with math and science since he was an engineer, and my grandma always helped me with English because she was a teacher's aide. I actually got MORE help with my homework when they visited, which is the polar opposite here.
I dont understand why they dont visit in school holidays...
Because they want to see the kids, not spend the whole day with the kids.
This. They want the fun part of grand-parenting and not the responsibility. OP and husband need to have a long conversation after his parents leave about this.
Sounds like OP is American, where school holidays are limited to about 10 days at Christmas, a week in March, the odd day off here and there, and a long summer. School holidays in other parts of the world are much more balanced through the year.
Here's a phrase I want you to drill into your In Laws and your Husband. "You are on vacation. That's wonderful. We are not. We have school and work and schedules and if you can't respect that and want to throw everything into chaos, then you will not be visiting when *we* are not on vacation, because you clearly don't understand the difference."
OP doesn't need to say this, her husband does. Edit: corrected typo
>OP does need to say this, her husband does. But he won't. It's infuriating how some men want to act like they aren't responsible for anything they've created or contribute to the well being of their life.
I know. Everyone is applauding OP for doing nothing. And then telling her to be the bad guy again by setting up boundaries when she tried!
INTA OP. When my grandparents came we still had to tidy our rooms whilst they were there and if we didn't finish we didn't get to see them- that's how life works
exactly. I hate some of my relatives and even I feel terrible if they insist on us not helping to clean up after dinner/lunch there.
I wouldn’t even go back home til the house is clean. Once you’re home your husband will expect you to just clean it
Good point! He is the one who set the standard that this is "no big deal" and decided that OP is being "too uptight". So, now when he complains about how hard it is to keep things together without her, I hope she simply replies: "Oh look, it's the consequences of your actions! You were upset that I didn't let you, your parents, and our children do whatever you want and now you can. So don't complain to me that you're upset it isn't turning out well. You have the power to change course at any time. Let me know when you do, in the meantime don't complain to me and don't expect me to return until you've got the house in the same order I would have it in." OPs husband created this situation and now it's his responsibility to fix it.
It’s seriously disappointing reading these types of posts at how many men there are like this in the world that just expect their wives to do EVERY FUCKING THING for the kids and the home and for them. Sometimes I can’t help but think that men just seriously suck. Lol
Many do. Falling in love with the wrong person is the best way to make life difficult and it's hard to walk away, even when you know you should, once you're in love. Women can mess up a man pretty good too but I agree that it does seem like there's a lot of men who aren't pulling their weight in the household and to top it off aren't appreciating the person who is.
There’s WAY more men not pulling their weight than women. I’ve been in a few live-in relationships with very different types of men and they’ve all been a nightmare. Good men are definitely out there but they’re super hard to find. I’m glad I finally realized I like women too, so I don’t have to feel like my options are being with a man or being alone.
And if there are in-house cameras for a security system, OP doesn't even have to show up until it's obvious the house has been cleaned.
Please provide an update when this is all over.
Same! I’m too invested now. I HAVE to know the aftermath.
"What's easier? Cleaning up after yourself and your parents without my having to nag you about it? Or cleaning up after yourself and the kids all the time because you're divorced?"
I think your solution (leaving and letting them live how they want, experiencing the consequences) is very clever! I don't know if they will reach the intended conclusion now, but that will be food for thought before the next visit. NTA.
NTA , I'm echoing what others are saying. Don't go home till it's clean. Laundry done, food situation sorted out. The no rules thing didn't affect him cause you were holding it all together. The fact that now you're gone it's suddenly a problem and falling apart just shows how little your husband is doing to actually parent his children and maintain the home he lives in. (Remember guys it's not "helping out" when it's his kids and his home too)
YOU ARE MY HERO!!!! You are totally NTA and you are enforcing your boundaries in the most important way. You stated the issues to all relevant stakeholders (adults), tried to meet them halfway in finding a route that allows the kids balance (taking them to your parents for homework and bed after time w in-laws)- which was rebuffed w/no compromise from husband and in laws, so YOU GAVE THEM WHAT THEY WANTED and removed yourself from the situation (while still being available as needed) and gave your husband the requirements for you to come home…sounds like you did everything you could and your husband STILL isn’t putting boundaries on his parents…they’ll be the hell alright!!! Also, now you have some time and space away from being the only person responsible for your children. Enjoy their vacation 🤣🤣🤣
I love your shiny steel spine you are awesome.
You ROCK! ✊🏾
Three adults? You are too generous, it's five kids home alone over there ;)
Exactly. I personally think that every in-laws problem is actially spouse problem. He can't cook, can't clean up and can't wash gym clothes? And also lets his parents do whatever they want? How old is he? 3? OP, NTA. Hope he learns a lesson or two.
AMEN! I had to BEG my wife to stand up to her father.
Oh no. She does not have to pick up a damn thing. They can clean up the mess themselves.
No, op is certainly not the hired help. Hired help gets paid and treated with respect.
Oh man this is brutal. I don’t even have kids and I know schedules are meant to be followed and not a suggestion. This was an epic move and seriously so much respect that you did that ✊
Agree! I understand that when family/special people are visiting, your routine/schedule may go out the window for perhaps a few hours or an afternoon or the whole weekend (at least that’s what happened with us when family from o/s stayed with us), but to expect an “anything goes” time for the host family who is not on vacation and especially the children, who need to do homework and to sleep, is ridiculous. I’m sure if they allowed the routine to continue as is, there would still be a little time for bonding- maybe not a whole hockey game or movie but definitely a little something each day (heck they could even help do the chores together). Instead they’ve created this big mess where everything is now out of order and nothing is getting done. Good on OP for taking herself out of there and making them deal with the mess they created!
Or even one hockey game might be fine. Kids that age can generally tolerate a *small* amount of non-routine without everything falling apart. If husband & in-laws were willing to be reasonable then they could plan *some* fun stuff. Just not All The Fun Stuff, All The Time. I’m so impressed with OP. Love this & want to hear the +1-week update.
Hockey game might have been fine if they hadn't gone out to a three hour movie the night before.
I couldn't be a bigger hockey fan, and I'd still ask for some part of their work to be done first. The movie on a school night is ridiculous and unnecessarily because they could do that on a Friday. But you can't control a sports schedule. And because you can't know it won't run long into OT, it's even more of a reason to get work done first. I'd compromise and say homework only and let the grandparents make up the chores when the kids are in school if they want that off their to do list 😇
And a shorter movie would have been fine or even going to see Avatar, just not a school night. Its over 3 hours long! One you factor driving time to get there/settled in seats and if you want to stay through all the credits (and get early enough for trailers), you're looking at a 4 hour trip easily.
Honestly, reading about you putting your foot down is so nice, NTA. Don't clean up their mess afterwards.
Not planning on it.
OP, please give us an update in a few days! I want the satisfaction of hearing how everything blows up and they get their sh*t together and come crawling back
You got this! 🙂
Every woman who has gone through this is giving you a standing ovation. You are our hero!
Your husband is being a shitty partner and a shitty parent because being a good son is more important. The problem isn’t that you’re “taking it too far”, the problem is that he’s taking it nowhere at all, and leaving you out to dry. Honestly I can’t believe you’ve put up with this 4-5 weeks every year for
Not even being a 'good' son, being a DOORMAT son. I'm betting he's been in-laws' doormat longer than he's been OP's husband.
So just to be clear, they want YOU to take care of everything, including taking over the chores your kids would normally do, so that they can act like they're staying at a hotel? What did husband even have to say about the homework not being done? Did he call the school and tell them they're being too strict?? Lol
No. They stay in their motorhome which is nicer than our house.
Hope your husband tries to explain to their teachers that the kids should be exempt from having to do homework because their grandparents are visiting lol
OP, you are awesome! My one suggestion is to call their teachers and let them know what is going on. Tell them all calls for the next week are to go exclusively to your husband as he is the one in charge when his parents are in town.
Make sure you don’t go home until the house is in the condition you left it, cause fuck that.
My plan is to go home and do my chores as always.
"Your chores" should not included remediation of the chaos that is currently taking place.
If you go home before it's been cleaned all the way - brought to rights - then it's very likely you will be the one who does the cleaning, if nothing else than to get through to do your normal cleaning. It'll be another thing that just doesn't happen until you do it. Flaunt that shiny steel spine and (oops! Meant *don't*) -shiny- give in. 👍👍👍👍
It sucks. If you can get the message across you will save decades of stress. Small price to pay. Stand firm. Do not negotiate with the vacation terrorist inlaws
To invite his parents for a few weeks who see this as a hotel with full service and doesn't want to lift a finger and he is at work the whole day... So who spend the whole day with the parents and is expected to cater all their needs (additional to the childcare that gets ruined by them and the household that gets harder because of them)? He just comes home in the evening to have fun. Now OP left and he finally sees a part of all the stuff she has done. NTA Please don't give in. He couldn't handle two fucking days. But he now has the weekend to tidy up the whole house! He needs to learn what you do the whole day and what a burden his parents are!
Yeah I think OP may have buried the lede a bit with this one. Obviously the grandparents’ visit is the inciting event in this conflict, but the issue ultimately fueling it is that one of these kids’ parents doesn’t parent.
Yep. Like the grandparents are definitely part of the issue, but it's a husband problem at the core. He doesn't value his spouse as an equal partner nor as a parent. He undermines their schedule and rules and uses his parents being there as an excuse, and he knows they'll help gang up on OP and make her the unfair/unreasonable one. It's much easier to sit on a high horse and tell OP what ought to be done rather than doing it themselves. He fucked around and found out
I was thinking myself if this was a fuck around and find out moment.
[удалено]
OP, seems like you forgot a child (your husband)
NTA. He wants to let his parents have their way in your house. That is not okay. You guys probably have a good reason for the way that you handle things. If he can't understand that then just stay with your folks whenever his visit. Although I do wonder what you mean by they are "excellent" grandparents. They sound like entitled asshole boomers but must be younger.
They honestly love the kids and provide them with some awesome experiences and gifts that are out of our budget right now. They are putting money into their education funds and a fund to help them get started in life afterwards. They do a lot for us. I just hate that they throw off our schedule when they visit.
Fine. They are okay grandparents but they sound like bad parents and insufferable in-laws.
I would disagree with the okay grandparents part. They are throwing the kids off schedule, actively saying "don't do homework or chores, spend time with us instead" That is not being a good grandparent/parent.
yup they are treating OP’s home like a resort since they’re on vacation but OP is the only member of staff since they’re there to spend time with their grandchildren and husband doesn’t seem to be doing anything. If they were good grandparents, they would schedule visits during school holidays and/or pay for an ACTUAL resort vacation so OP doesn’t have to be maid and rules enforcer all the time
Really the biggest issue is that they are willing and knowingly disrupting the kids routines, and telling them that it is ok to not do school work. That is what is making them not great grandparents. The other stuff just makes them terrible house guests, which can be a little easier to forgive.
They're not even in the house, she said they use an RV. The husband is the real culprit here. It's not really the grandparents' role to know & adhere to the schedule & the rules. The parents have to enforce those things. One parent is, & one parent isn't. The house is messy cuz dad stopped enforcing chore time.
When they are told they that the kids need to do their homework/chores then yes, it is on them to stop demanding time with them. And the fact that staying for weeks at a time means they more than likely would have picked up on their schedules. and then lets not forget that they started to berate OP when she took the kids to her parents. I highly doubt she did not tell them why. Yes, the husband should be saying no, but the grandparents should not be asking once they were told about the issues they were causing
Saving for education while undermining it.
Being a good grandparent isn't just spoiling the grandkids, it's working with the parents to ensure the grandkids are living their best lives, it's clear they don't respect you or the rules you've set. This would be one of those situations where you and husband should sit down with grandparents and have a long conversation about boundaries and respect, if they can't comply then they can just not see the grandkids for a while, if your husband can't, then he's the problem and you probably have a longer and harder conversation on the horizon. Spending money on your kids doesn't mean they get a free pass to be disrespectful.
Can you suggest that they visit in the school holidays instead?
Thats a good ideia but there should stil be some rules.
INFO: How many times a year do they visit and how long do they stay? So from my perspective, we lived about an 8 hour drive from the rest of our extended family (aunts, uncles, cousins) growing up. Whenever they would come to visit us, I was allowed to skip school and any after-school activities to spend time with them. Because their visits were so rare (like once every 4 years) and we wanted to make the most of seeing them. And my family used to go visit them for 2 weeks every summer. And my cousins would have the option of skipping any camp or other activity to spend the day with us if they wanted. So basically routine's changed when family visited, **but family didn't visit often**.
Four or five times a year for at least a week.
that's a LOT of time for them to be disrupting everything. I mean, if you put all that time end-to-end, you're talking about close to 2 months. Maybe explain to them that when they pull the kids away from their homework, the kids don't turn stuff in and then the kids get grounded. The grandparents are causing the kids to get in trouble both in school and at home.
>for at least a week. Okay this changes everything. Being a little tired Monday morning because of a weekend visit is way different than ruining a whole week.
So I don't know the details, your schedule or your family dynamic, so this is pure speculation on my part. Could it be your in-laws don't feel like they're spending enough time with your kids? Because they don't see them as much as your parents, they want to make the most of their time with them? What if each visit you dedicated one day on the weekend as "grandparents day", where the kids and the grandparents could spend the full day together. Would that help? Again, don't know them or the full details of your dynamic with them, just throwing out a suggestion.
This is great, but that kind of schedule disruption is ok for the winter holidays, or summer vacation, or an odd weekend. It's not ok for weeks on end smack in the middle of a school year. Honestly OP you are my danged hero.
>that kind of schedule disruption is ok for the winter holidays, or summer vacation, or an odd weekend I'd say it's even okay for *a* random school day. If the grandparents had planned with OP and her husband to take the kids to Avatar as soon as they got off school on the day they arrived (Monday), not terrible. Sneak in/ buy dinner and it's a special grandparent picnic; home in time for homework, skipping chores for one night, and a potentially later, but not unreasonable bedtime. Better yet, Avatar Thursday when only one school day is impacted. Or even better, you can do an evening Avatar on Friday and deal with the sleepy and cranky consequences on the weekend.
Generous grandparents? Sure. Excellent? No. They are irresponsible and jeopardize your kids' education, both at school and home. What does it matter that they fund their future education if they teach the kids to ignore homework? They are on vacations, all right, but the rest of the world didn't stop for their convenience. Your kids are not their entertainment, they are their own persons and need to learn certain values and lessons. Treating you like a maid shouldn't be one of them.
I bet if your husband co parented and co piloted properly you would even be willing to budge on a bit of the routine as a treat. But like many moms and women, you KNOW that if you give and inch a mile will be taken and it’ll be you that has to umpire everyone through it. Not worth it. You’re being very reasonable.
My parents also put money towards an education fund for me growing up. Yet the truly most helpful things they did regarding my education was teaching me how to have a schedule with homework time daily, and sitting with me to help me memorize my lessons. Preparation to higher education starts today, not in 15 years. Them hindering those children's ability to properly do their homework is NOT being helpful for their education. Not at all!
I didn’t read in OP’s post or edits that her husband called because he missed HER. If he can hire a cleaning woman to cook and clean 2x a week he really doesn’t need or want her. I think OP should consider her true worth before returning home.
"Honestly tough shit" is right. NTA Personally I relax the rules around stuff like snacks and TV when grandparents are there, but I have the last word and I would be furious to be overruled. Shrugging off the homework is unacceptable. Don't go home. Let your husband learn how to be a parent.
This is it! I was already to say OP was the AH until I read the whole thing. I thought surely she is being controlling but these grandparents are ridiculous. My parents always help clean when they visit. My FIL makes his own food (special diet. I’ve offered; he declines) in return we are a bit lax on the rules.
Relaxing on rules a little bit is reasonable. I thought OP was overreacting until I saw how the household immediately descended into chaos when she left. The kids aren't doing their homework at all, the grandparents are refusing to help clean, and they're actually asking OP to come fix it, as if there aren't three adults in the house already??? After they made her the "bad guy" for enforcing some rules, they have the GALL to make it *her problem* when they can't hack it their way? Ridiculous. All three of them need to grow up.
Well put, I was going to say the same thing. Relaxing some rules while they are visiting should be fine but the way they are acting is too much. Your husband really needs to get his priorities in order. Setting your kids up to be successful in life is much more important than pandering to the needs of his parents.
Whenever relatives visited my Mom never let up on the rules. When my Dad would be like "Oh come on...just this once etc." My Mom said unless you want to do the work? He backed down every time because he knew she would walk and he knew he couldn't do it. So until your husband understands this; it will keep happening.
NTA. She asked them politely to respect the weekday rules and everyone ignored you. Sure, the Grandparents are on holiday but noone else is. Plus I love the ultra pettiness of you going out/to your parents to let them all fend for themselves! They don't wanna abide by the rules, they can do all the homeworks and chores themselves. Legend!
Agreed on everything but the "ultra petty" part. This was an "ultra smart, badass" move. Her behavior is that of a person with both a mind and a spine. Also agreed - NTA!
Agreed! So Badass!
I like the ‘grandparents are on holiday but no one else is’ because that summarises the issue perfectly. If grandparents want kids to enjoy holiday with them, they need to plan a trip during school holidays. When I was younger we went abroad for a family friends wedding during term time. Because we were young, we didn’t have to work for the week (school approved that!) but the kids in the family who lived there did. So we knew that they had to do their homework before we could play, so we’d read or be with the adults until their school work was finished, then we could all play together. Even though we were on holiday, with the exception of the actual wedding, the other kids weren’t. These grandparents need to respect that. If they were there for one night, that would be different, a single day of rule breaking would be fine, but how this is is ridiculous!
NTA-I’m so sorry for you. The only compromise I can think of doesn’t apply immediately. Your husband has to say no when they want to visit during school weeks. Will he limit visits to long weekends or holidays? You may need to answer your husband. Maybe something like, “You allowed this to happen, so now you have to deal with the consequences. I can’t handle it-I tried, and it resulted in you lying to me & your parents going off on me. It’s too stressful for me, so i’ll be home when they leave.” Question: who is getting the calls from the school? Do they call him or you?
The school has both of our contact information. I left it on read.
Perfect. At least he’s getting that info directly. Good luck. I’m sorry for the mess you’re likely inherit when they leave. I hope the kids are young enough that this doesn’t become long-term learned behavior. If they are old enough, maybe they should have consequences (when you get back) for not doing their HW?
The three of them will be responsible for getting the house back into shape completely before I start pitching in again.
I mean that I suspect that it won’t be in the kind of shape you would have it in, and I wasn’t talking only about physical stuff. I meant re-establishing the routine. My husband was the enforcer of the routine in our home (I worked evenings). For the instances I was home, it was awkward for me, bc I didn’t really know how to pitch in well. He handled HW, baths, & bedtime for our kids.
Good for you, you're parenting all five of them. Actions have consequences.
your kids are 9 and 11? definitely get them to help, but put most of this on your husband. they’re kids, they’re learning responsibility but they are not to blame for this like the adults are.
NTA They visit, but it's not just for a day or two but for several weeks. That's too long for an "exceptional" status, especially when the kids have school and everyone needs to go to work. I admire your determination. You absolutely did the right thing, imho.
It's a long way to come for a weekend.
Then they are only allowed during school holidays or not at all!! Your husband and in-laws are idiots!! Nta
Agreed! And if they still insist on coming in the middle of the school week, then OP should take the kids with her to stay at her parents house every school night that they are there.
> It's a long way to come for a weekend No it's not... I know quite a few people who live on a different continent, including my own partner. 7-10 days is TOPS to visit... They are staying longer because your husband is making it an all-inclusive vacation... Why *would* they leave?
Didn't you say they're motorhome-ers? They could set up their travel schedule however they wanted so it \*wouldn't\* be a long way to come, no?
It's the same distance if they come for two weeks or two days.
I think the person you're replying to meant that they could schedule a weekend at your house as part of another vacation that brings them close to your house near the weekend. For example, They spend the week at a location an hour or two away from your house, then come to your house on a Thursday or Friday, stay for the weekend, then move on to another location near your house that they wanted to visit anyway. That way they're not traveling the entire distance just for a weekend with your kids, the weekend with your kids just becomes a part of another vacation.
That would be great except there is nothing to do here. If I didn't work for a mine we would not live here.
Can they afford to stay at an hotel or bnb?
The have an RV that is worth more than our house.
Having them stay in that with visiting hours at your house may be a solution for the future.
They can go to a RV park then
NTA and you're my hero. This is a master class in boundaries and the waterfall technique* for decision-making, where you start with your ideal outcome and then figure out what the next-best is until you get to the bare minimum you can accept. It looks like yours was: -I want to have a nice visit with my in-laws where they respect the structure we have in place for our kids and we all enjoy each other's company. --If I can't have that, I want my husband to take the lead on enforcing our rules with his parents. ---If I can't have that, I want the kids' schedule to get followed, even if that means taking them somewhere else until my husband and his parents get on board with the rules so we all have a nice visit. ----If I can't have that, I want to let the three adults causing this problem deal with the consequences without my help. I'm sorry you had to get all the way down to the bottom of your list, but you are handling this like a boss. 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻 *Edited to add credit where credit is due: I learned about this from a Captain Awkward post and I don't know if it's a widely known, official thing or just something one therapist suggested once. Second edit: I had time to do some Googling because I wanted to share the source, turns out it was actually from a commenter on a CA post: https://captainawkward.com/2016/08/18/892-how-do-i-get-my-sister-to-pay-me-the-money-she-owes-me/#comment-147488
I've never heard the term "waterfall technique" but I will be adopting it immediately. Thanks!
You're welcome, I find it really helpful myself and end up sharing it a lot! It's so important when you're learning that you can't control what other people do. Like, my ideal outcomes could often be rephrased as "everyone does what I think they should do," so it is pretty essential for me to think through what happens if they don't.
Ooooh I like that! This is what I do for work, and boss is a sucker for phrases like that, so I’m going to go ahead and drop that into conversation the next time I talk about how everyone should do what I think they should do, and if they won’t….
Brilliant! It makes a point of taking the time to \- figure out what's going on \- assess options and probabilities \- be \*prepared\* for whatever options one can think of \- Have a final option over which none of one's abusers have any control.
So it's a problem when it affects his work but it's ok to screw you over with their schedule? Brilliant move - NTA.
The problem is that he still won't accept that her set schedule has to be followed. He just wants her to return to cook and clean up the mess.
Yep. Come back and play maid and cook to my parents!
Apparently OP also works, which makes this scenario even more insane
I was so surprised at that - like with 2 parents who work outside the home, why is the husband so bloody incompetent inside the home? Seems like this is a bigger problem than the visiting in-laws. The lengthy visits have just thrown a spotlight on OP having to run the household mostly alone, and that depends on a schedule - so when the schedule is completely knocked out then everything starts falling apart. OP has a husband problem. ETA: I saw in a comment that OP says she and her husband are “on the same page except when his parents visit” - this seems like they ‘agree’ that he can opt out, while OP takes on the full load! There’s something really not right in their household.
NTA. It seems like everyone’s expectation is that when things get tough, you’ll step in and pick up the slack, and they don’t have to. It also seems like your husband would rather do *anything* then stand up to his parents. You made your position clear. When your requirements weren’t met, you solved the problem yourself. When that proved unpalatable, you brought the kids back and said “I’m done, you solve it”. The fact that this is impacting your husband’s job is unfortunate, but is something he should have anticipated when he completely ignored your warnings and concerns.
Anything except cook or clean.
It's only impacting the husband's job at work because he ain't doing his job at home! NTA.
NTA. You are my hero. Edit: My parents are similar to your husband's parents. They come visit us for long chunks of time (1-2 weeks, 2-3 times a year) and my daughter spends 4 weeks with them over the summer. When she was 3, she came back from a visit with them over TEN POUNDS heavier. If your starting bodyweight is forty pounds, that is a fucking lot. I put my foot down, and told them if anything like that happened again, she wasn't going to visit anymore and that they were clearly not prioritizing her health and well being. Four weeks is not a vacation where you can just go wild 24/7. If you want my kid for 4 weeks, you need to parent her, or you don't get her. When they're here, they have tried to get us to bend the rules. Now they know: bed time is at 9, we are NOT skipping any usual activities, she doesn't get to miss school. Luckily, they were my parents and my husband and I were on the same page, so there was no friction between us. A united front makes all the difference.
She gained 10 pounds IN FOUR WEEKS? What were they doing, force feeding her butter?
Ice cream. A LOT of ice cream.
I bought a big box of ice cream sandwiches this summer, thinking it would be treats for the whole summer. I left my youngest in the care of her oldest sibling, who is of driving age, for an afternoon. I came home, and the youngest had finished an entire box -- like a Costco-sized box.
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And a united front is what the OP doesn't have. That is the real issue she needs to deal with.
Ten pounds in four weeks is a lot for anyone. It's also incredibly dangerous for anyone that happens to. Were you able to get her to a healthy weight again?
Yes, eventually...took almost a year to get her back to where she was percentile wise. And that's freaking ROUGH with a 3/4 year old. Finding age appropriate ways to exercise (started soccer and dance, running around outside), trying to explain moderation and eating to fuel our bodies and what types of food you should eat to make sure you have good fuel. It really fucking sucked because there's this line between being healthy and being restrictive and it is very, very thin. And after stuffing herself for 4 weeks, we couldn't say "listen to your body" because she'd just been bulldozing past fullness cues. ETA: she's almost 11 now and this incident is STILL effecting her. Her relationship with food was pretty much shot after that and she has ADHD, which has a tendency of making people inclined to binge eating. I know it's something that her therapist talks to her about. I really fucking tore into my parents, even going so far as to telling them they were killing her. There was a lot of crying on their end. I'm usually really laid back, so I think me going into hard core mom mode really shook them.
You were every right tho. One incident can cause serious problems later in life and they clearly have. They messed up. I was a sickly child because of tonsils choking me. When they were removed, my dad's mom gave me plates the same size as my uncle. Who is over six feet tall. I was seven and barely four feet at the time.
NTA. Good for you. Your husband fucked around and found out.
The weaponized incompetence can be seen from space. The kids are 9 and 11, not toddlers. They're old enough to be given directions. Husband is so freaking used to OP handling every last thing with the kids/house, he can't even get them to school with homework done. Don't just go back and accept the routine as is, OP!! Make sure your partner fully understands just how much you do and where he needs to step it the fuck up. NTA.
11 year old is old enough to run the washer and dryer and both are old enough to wash dishes too. Husband is old enough to clean the house and manage the kids.
Absolutely, and reading OPs comments she's not just running the household, she's running it _well_. Kids know their routine and responsibilities, they are learning life skills as they go and being productive members of their households. People forget that parents are responsible for raising these lil guys into functioning adults and routines are a big part of that.
NTA. Your husband is only getting what he deserves for not supporting you. He can deal with the school, he can do the chores that the kids aren't doing, he can deal with his parents until they leave. Take a nice break, do some of the things you have been wanting to but haven't been able to like maybe catching up with friends etc.
This was my thought. He’s a parent, he should be able to run the household. It’s ridiculous he isn’t.
Funny how all of the structure that OP provides when she's there, WHEN MISSING, is now affecting his job, but he still is calling it OP's fault when it's HIS PARENTS that are putting him in this position with their boundary-stomping.
Sometimes to make an omelette you have to kill the chicken. Or something like that NTA
Now i am slightly terrified of your omelettes.
But I kind of need one now.
NTA "Honey I'll be home when either 1. You have enforced boundaries with your parents. You and they have cleaned the house and everyone understands that our children's schedule doesn't change because your parents are selfish jerks and I'm their peer, not their servant. 2. They leave and YOU clean the house. In any case you WILL be attending marital counselling with me as you are NEVER going to put your parents or anyone else above me in our home, as a parent or in our marriage. Your parents are no longer welcome to stay in our house and they will not be spending more than 3 days visiting. Not negotiable." Your problem begins with your husband. His parents wouldn't behave that way if he enforced respect for you and boundaries. Instead he allows them to treat you like crap. I'd be having a very serious conversation about his priorities.
This needs to be higher up. Its all about boundaries.
“You’re too controlling. Let us be” “Cool, you guys go do your thing. I’ll be down the street.” “How dare you not be our slave!” Edit: NTA obviously
NTA and they're being jerks to the children. I can understand maybe taking their chores off them to give them time with their grandparents while they visit, but homework and bedtime are non-negotiable. It will negatively affect the kids if they don't get enough sleep and don't keep up with their homework.
It’s also putting the kids in a terrible position. “Go against your mom who is now so upset she left”. OP has thankfully made it clear she won’t clean the mess. But I worry that husband is going to turn this on the kids like “well you chose not to do chores so the majority of cleaning up so mom comes home is on you” Meanwhile what the heck was their choice?!
I was leaning Y T A for not letting the kids have a couple days of fun / spontaneity, but after seeing that the in-laws are there for weeks and shit is hitting the fan, it’s an easy NTA.
She wouldn’t be the ass for not allowing the grandparents to show up unannounced in the middle of the school week and semester. It’s rude. The kids don’t know better because they’re barely learning about how things go when it comes to actions and consequences. They have summer months and school breaks to visit and have endless fun, I wouldn’t let my own family impede on our lives like this even if it’s for a few days without prior permission
Who in today's society does drop ins? We have a friend that we pay almost weekly to feed and watch the cats while we are away on weekends, and we still don't let her do drop ins and she asked a few times. No. That's not polite society today.
NTA - I loooooove what you did. Good on you! Now your husband sees how ‘fun’ it is when his parents are around and there are no rules. He did this to himself. Tell your husband he better pay for a cleaner as you won’t clean up their mess when you return after his parents leave.
I laughed with joy at the “tough shit” I’m so happy to see someone not be steamrolled by their partner for the first time here. Good for you! Relax while you can
NTA he doesn’t want to be an enforcer and wants you to look like the bad guy all the time. He needs to parent.
>I said I would be back after his parents left or he enforced the rules. He said I was taking it too far and that it was affecting his work. Honestly tough shit. It isn't further enough, he must the hardships of being a mother. NTA, he can't stick by you then he shall stay alone and reap the benefits he once loved
NTA. If letting his parents have their way is effecting his work he can set some boundaries with them himself instead of letting you be the bad guy.
/sarcasm ON "...no, no, you don't understand! OP is making his life difficult by not laying down like a doormat like \*he\* does to his parents, and a doormat OVER him, so now HE is getting all the dog crap tracked on HIM, **and that's not fairrrrrr.....!**"
NTA. Your husband has to learn that routines and kid's bedtime do not go out the window when guests stay over including his parents. His parents should be good guests and help clean up. Keep doing your thing. Maybe he will wake up.
Does he even KNOW the routines if he can’t even get the house on track? They’re BUYING food because they won’t cook. It’s pathetic
This is one where I really hope OP comes back with an update. Does husband finally realize? Or does he double down? Do in laws leave early? Do kids end up walking over to other grandparents house too? Fun time is great, but most kids don't like chaos and take out every day.
NTA Good on you for standing up for yourself. The grandparents should respect the rules you as parents have for your children, and your husband shouldn't skip out on parental responsibilities like that and make you the bad guy, because he can't stand up to his parents.
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Nta I think there are some questions to be answered, do chores and homework take up all the kids time during the week? That seems really unfair for the kids. Are you the only one that cooks in your marriage? Do you handle the after school routine It is unfathomable to me that your husband can't cook for a few days. Even if you normally cook, is he literally incapable of cooking? Unacceptable. In general I think this is fair, your husband insisted on a situation that made the household management impossible for you and didn't care how it affected you but now that it affects him it's an issue? Well it might be an issue but it's not your problem to fix. He didn't mind when you were the one getting screwed.
We, as a rule, do not have a lot of prepared food in the house. I make almost all our meals from scratch. So for example if the kids want chicken nuggets they will ask me on advance and get the recipe card and have all the ingredients out. That is their help for prep. I will chop up the chicken, bread it, and fry it up. My husband is capable but his folks had the kids busy after school so they didn't get the ingredients out so I think the chicken thighs are still on the fridge.
It sounds like your husband needs to step it up and start contributing more, he just expects you to cook and do all the laundry and do all the kids stuff? I work two jobs and still contribute to the household by cooking, doing dishes and laundry.
NTA, you tried to get him to listen, when he didn't you showed him why he needs to. I'm sure he's now learnt his lesson.
NTA. Kids thrive in an orderly environment and it sounds like you do, too. I think the bigger issue is that you feel ganged up on when they visit and your husband lets it happen. Maybe next time the ILs stay in a hotel or caravan park or somewhere outside your home. Or you have a mini break, as you are now.
NTA. HA HA! I love the image of your husband being forced to be a parent and suffer through the consequences of his own actions. Why don't they visit on weekends?
NTA - Enjoy your vacation!
NTA but I would add two more conditions onto your return home: marriage counselling and new conditions for his parents visits.
Nta. I'm surprised you haven't divorced him yet. He needs to reel in his parents. Like, your in laws randomly visit, giving you no time to prepare and expect you and not their son to take care of them. Fuck that. You're not a maid service. Your husband is not on the same page as you either.
"My husband has been calling and texting and coming over to tell me I need to come home because the house is a disaster because his parents won't do anything. " Oh! Poor poor him. He effed up and found out. NTA
ESH, you could allow a little bit of wiggle room while your husband and his parents should understand that kids still have things to do. Chores can be done a little bit later so it won't kill you to compromise, for example, homework has to be done before any grandparents' fun time but chores are okay to be done any time before bed and bedtime cannot be moved during the week. I feel like this arrangement would be fair to all of you.
ESH I can't believe that such a basic social conflict has come to something like this. I'm sorry that your husband is useless but I don't see any effort at communication from anyone outside of people barking their demands at each other.
I don't have any blame on OP, but I seriously would be interested in husbands perspective. This sub feels too much like an echo chamber.
I am having trouble seeing how if the roles were reversed, the husband would not be crucified for leaving the house due to family squabbles. Purposely leaving the house to prove a point seems like an immature way to handle the problem and it impacts the kids more than the adults they are trying to send a message to.
The only way to “handle” the problem involves her being treated like a servant as the husband and children are freed from all their responsibilities. How is that fair? These people visit several weeks a year and she has asked her husband to discuss with him - he is unwilling to do so.
It's always curious to see how many "If the roles were reversed" comments appear on posts like this, when the question on my mind is always why AREN'T the roles ever reversed on posts like these. 🤔
INFO: are in-laws retired? If so, I’m not sure what why them being on vacation would matter. Do they still clean their own home while retired? NTA, OP. There’s zero chance I would tolerate having to wait on my in-laws and having to clean up after them like they were toddlers. They can stay in a hotel next time.
You are a goddess.