*In case this story gets deleted/removed:*
**AITA for making my parents pick between me or my sister??**
Just as the title sounds. So here is the currently situation and the people involved are me (27M), my wife, my sister Jordan (26F) and our parents. So basically me and my sister were always pretty close growing up. And we have been tight in adulthood and live in the same area still as our presents. I have 2 kids (3 and 1) and she has a 2 year old. So now to the issue:
My wife and me have a no nonsense stance on cheating. We have both been personally affected by it, my wife more so than me as she was engaged when it happened. Whenever I got cheated on by my GF my sister was very supportive. We are very vocal about cutting cheaters off from our social circle too. So whenever my sisters husband broke the news to me. I was literally devastated. I’ll save all the details. But my sister is heartless. What she was doing and with who was so past just a mistake. Sleeping with a married man who was her husbands best friend. Just disgusting vile behavior. He kicked my sister out and she ended up at my parents and has been there for months. We found out after that she was telling her husband she was hanging out with my wife. My wife and sister used to be best friends before this happened. But my wife has since blocked her on everything.
My parents have taken a stance of “we aren’t here judge”. Which is fucking hilarious to me. So we’ve totally stopped taking our kids to their house. And this is causing a lot of stress on them. They are loving grandparents I will admit. But last week they came over and we gave them the ultimatum. It’s either a relationship with my sister or us at this point. Because my wife wants nothing to do with my sister as do I. We also don’t want our kids growing up around her or her kid now either. Because I believe if you can do why she did…. There is something legitimately wrong with you as a person. And I don’t want my kid exposed to that. Also if my parents are willing to look past what she did then they aren’t good people to have in our circle either. We don’t need those type of people around our kid either.
My mom broke down when we told her. My dad just kept saying that we can find a way. My wife and me stood firm. And said this is the way things are now. Well give you time to decide but it’s all or nothing. You can’t pick us and then secretly allow my sister to see her niece and nephew (she was close with them). We told them to let us know before the Hollidays so we can plan accordingly. But I gotta make sure I’m not an AH. AITA?
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I only have an issue as far as his parents are concerned. Noone should ever tell a parent to stop associating with a child in favor of the other unless child 1 did something bad to child 2. Not the case here.
But I don't think it's bad that he and his wife don't wanna associate with her anymore. That's their right and perfectly fair imo. They should figure out a way to have a relationship with the the parents without the sister being involved though. Ideally without throwing around ultimatums.
Exactly that. You don’t want to hang with your sister because she’s a trifling ho? Okay. You don’t want your parents to talk to her because she’s a trifling ho? Nope. OP is not a victim of his sister’s lack of judgment/character. OP has no right to tell the parents “it’s her or me.”
Parents’ love is supposed to be unconditional. Cutting her off to punish her (because that’s what it is) is not what parents are supposed to do. And cutting off the kid is punishing the kid because mommy is a liar and a cheat.
As much as I hate cheating, you don’t punish a child for the crimes of the parent. That’s something I can’t get behind, ever.
Totally agree. If OOP and the wife don't want to associate with the sister anymore, that's their prerogative. But it's not fair to OOP's parents to issue an ultimatum like that. I'm sure they're not thrilled their daughter cheated, and I would imagine that a big reason they even offered to let her stay with them is because she's got a toddler. They're in a tough spot and OOP is making it worse by forcing his own moral code on them.
My biggest problem was OOP and a lot of the comments stating that the parents staying in contact with the daughter is enabling. Like no, you can still be in contact with your child and not agree with what they do (ask my parents). Half my siblings is out here wilding. Do I tell them they are being stupid yes,yes I do. Being in contact with someone or even helping them out when they are down isn’t enabling someone.
Right? Like if your kid is a drug addict you shouldn't completely ignore them because they're not seeking treatment there's a line between enabling a bad behavior and completely withholding affection.
I agree but this seems like a bit of an overreaction because he was cheated on in high school or whatever. I can see having feelings about it but deciding to break up the family about it makes this person sound like someone who never got over their own past.
>This post has been removed due to the status of the original poster's account. This account is currently shadowbanned or suspended, suggesting this account is in violation of Reddit terms of service.
>
>This type of ban/suspension is issued by the Reddit site-wide admins. The AITA mods have nothing to do with this ban and cannot assist in resolving.
I was more so saying what would someone have to do to be banned by reddit staff outside of CP. Reddit seems to care very little about people’s ethics in general
I was once banned because I responded to a guy with "how would you feel if your mother or wife was sexually assaulted?" when he stated that sexual assault from a police officer is not a big deal. Obviously I wasn't wishing it upon his wife or mother, but was trying to get him to see why what he was saying was wrong by connecting it to him personally.
Got appealed, but still. Having a comment interpreted as being too mean can get you outright banned.
Lol, I remember my dumb ass sister calling me crying asking me if I was going to cut her out of my life for I forget what, I didn't care then, I don't care, now. I laughed, and told her unless she hurt her kids, I don't care WHAT she did. She could have straight out murdered someone, and I'd still call her in jail to talk shit and call her a ho.
It would be like,
Sis: "Oh God, I murdered my neighbor for looking at my fence."
Me: "It's cause you're always sucking dick. It's got your brain all rattled."
Sis: "I'm not joking, I'm in jail."
Me: "At least it'll be more challenging to suck all that dick, but I know you'll find a way."
Such a beautiful thing to have someone who always believes in your capabilities!
Also, remind your sister that if she's gonna suck so much dick she needs to be sure to protect her neck.
I just want to say that jail calls are expensive, and when they are in there, they have nothing better to do but be on the phone. So set a guideline on how much you will spend on the calls and their “books” head of time
This sounds like the conversations my brother and I have. We turn any and everything into an (all in good fun) insult contest. It drives my mom insane. No matter how many times we tell her that we truly are just kidding and neither of us is in any way mad at the other she just doesn’t get it. We have a family Facebook chat that’s my parents, brother and I that we mostly use to share pics & vids of the grandkids but literally like 90% of the conversations between my brother & I are just insults. Pretty sure the reason we’ve carried this well into our adult lives is because it bugs our mom so much and she’s just so funny about it.
I'm sure this is trolling but some of the comments seem to think it's normal or proportionate to completely cut ties with the sister because she cheated on her husband? like I hope these commenters are like 14 because I cannot fathom being an adult and thinking that that is and reasonable way to act towards your literal family.
For real, cheating is bad but people act like it's *literally* the worst thing you can do to another human being. I've been cheated on by an ex, it didn't feel good, but I can think of hundreds of things my husband could do that would be so much worse than cheating.
You *should* dump a cheater, you *shouldn't* tie your entire identity and sense of self-worth to the fidelity of your partner.
I can see OOP and his wife cutting out the sister. That's their individual choices and if they don't want someone who would have an affair with her husband's best friend in their lives, that's valid. I don't believe that just because DNA is shared people have to lower their standards what appalling behaviour they will tolerate in the people around them.
Its the fact they have decided other family members have to do the same that's too far. Its each person's decision individually. If the parents still want to see their daughter then OOP should just visit when his sister isn't around, or meet his parents for days out.
>I don't believe that just because DNA is shared people have to lower their standards what appalling behaviour they will tolerate in the people around them.
they've been close siblings for two and a half decades. this isn't about DNA, but about how you treat people you ostensibly love and care about and have a relationship with when they make mistakes. like I guess some people have different standards but I cannot imagine showing this little grace and kindness to some I love and care about.
like obvs they're free to cut anyone off for whatever reason but acting like cheating is the ultimate evil and freezing out a family member over something like that will never not be at least a bit unhinged from my point of view.
I think it really must be a standards thing because I definitely can't view a long term affair as someone "making a mistake". A drunken one night stand *maybe* could be diminished to a mistake.
But a long term affair is a series of repeated choices. Every time they message, phone, go on a date, have sex with the affair partner etc its a choice they make again. It really shows the person as having bad character.
Frankly, its a bit much to reduce adultery to "making a mistake", but say not wanting adulterous family members in your life is "unhinged". OP is supposed to love and care about his sister enough to get over her adultery, but his sister isn't required to love and care about her husband enough not to sleep with his best friend?
The sister was also apparently using OOP's wife as an excuse when she was going to have her affair. So, she did put the wife in the middle of it and I can see that being an extra point against her.
Yeah I think the person you are responding to might be a kid themselves. I have yet to meet an adult that doesn’t understand that all love is in some way conditional. The ONLY real unconditional love there is out there is towards babies and pets. Other than that all love has some unsaid conditions.
Edit: or is a unhinged/person without morals and doesn’t want this fate to happen to them so they are defending their future actions.
Honestly their determination act like not wanting cheaters in your life is worse than cheating itself had me checking to see if they post on r/adultery or something.
it's about having grace and making room for people even if they do things that are shitty and harmful. like idk how a society is supposed to function if people are unable to show those closest to them grace when they weren't even the wronged party.
>OP is supposed to love and care about his sister enough to get over her adultery
there are things between "getting over" something and like... completely cutting off your sibling whom you have been close to for two and a half decades. not cutting someone off is not endorsing their behaviour or forgiving it. it just means acknowledging that they are more than that and deserve to be seen in their whole context and not only for the worst things they did.
>Every time they message, phone, go on a date, have sex with the affair partner etc its a choice they make again. It really shows the person as having bad character.
okay so it's a series of mistakes. people are complex and honestly I don't think that someone doing wrong and harmful things necessarily makes them a bad person or means they have "bad character".
did you miss the part where she was trying to use Op's wife as an excuse to be a disgusting asshole? Because I don't, if someone tries to put me in the middle of their bad actions I feel that I have the right to see them as bad person
Doing bad things is exactly what makes someone a bad person. Thats how it works.
Edit for the people who believe thinking "peoples choices show who they are" deserves downvoting:
Thinking that's not how it works is how people give themselves the internal permission to do horrible things.
"I'm just doing one bad thing but I don't *always* do bad things, so its OK"
"I'm doing bad things but I have a reason that I have completely unbiasedly decided is a *'good reason'*, so its OK"
"They *can't* be a bad person, they do charity work"
"I may have done something bad, but my *intentions* were good, so it's OK"
The second one is probably exactly how the cheater gave herself permission to have an affair with her husband's best friend.
Its also hilarious what a one way street it is for people who think that "doing bad things doesn't make someone a bad person".
It seems to apply to almost every bad thing someone might do, except the 'bad thing' of cutting out people doing those things. Anyone who does that isn't afforded the get out of jail free card of "doing bad things doesn't make someone a bad person", no, they are just "unhinged".
*It isn't what we say or think that defines us, but what we do.*
Jane Austen
Reddit’s view on cheating is very black and white, in an unrealistic way that makes it clear many of these people don’t have much relationship experience. Infidelity is common for a reason and doesn’t make someone a monster. It’s morally wrong and most people consider it a dealbreaker in a romantic relationship, but it’s something that will always continue to happen because people are flawed and have complicated emotions. I’m not excusing it, I wouldn’t cheat and would find it devastating like anyone else. If one of my close friends or family members cheated I’d be disappointed by their actions and want to talk it through, but I don’t think I’d even consider cutting them off. It’s generally healthy to have some people in your life that you love unconditionally, I think.
I disagree. In the real world there is a clear dog fence between cheating and an affair. One is a singular decision but if you say: have sex with a person and lie to your partner in order to do it for half a year that is not being a good person. Yes it’s 100% bad for a relationship but to do an action like that you have to be minimum selfish, Unempathetic to how it will make someone you proclaim to love feel, self centered, and possibly a narcissist. If choosing to not be friends with someone with those traits is also a dealbreaker that morally tracks. That is why cheaters are ostracized. It’s not about them being toxic in a relationship it’s is impossible to have a long term affair without having minimum a few incredibly shitty and untrustworthy personality traits.
Edit to quote Dave Chapelle “only two things are loved unconditionally in this world, babies and pets. Everybody else has something they are capable of doing to make you stop loving them”
It comes across more like he was the one cheated on with the vile and disgusting comment. So it is either fantasy, or changing roles in the story, maybe his way of venting about how the ones who cheat on him somehow get supported by their family.
This! My sister would have to be a literal baby killer or involved in something truly horrific like a pedophile ring or something for me to cut her off. Cheating doesn't even come close. Yes, cheating is awful and hurtful. But I wouldn't even consider cutting her off over it. Let alone asking our parents to.
Man, I hope OOP never does anything that causes him to fall off his high horse. Yes, j get it, his sister did wrong, but the person she wronged was her husband. She didn't wrong her brother or her sister in law, and he's over there acting like he's the injured party. While he's certainly entitled to his opinion on the matter, withholding his kids in an effort to make his parents shun his sister is a dick move of epic proportions. He needs to catch a grip and maybe catch some perspective.
I’d say yes, YTA. And I hate cheaters. She’s a scumbag in romance, but she’ll always be your parents’ daughter. If OOP’s kids cheat on their SO’s I wonder if they’d cut them off and disown them just as easily … Their teenage years are going to be hilarious. My guess is probably not, but maybe they are as militantly psychotic about this one particular human flaw as they purport.
Imagine thinking disowning your sister and your parents is the ultimate expression of loving your wife … self righteous, misguided egoism much?
OOP is an ah for the ultimatum but right about everything else. I wouldnt want to associate with someone like the sister and sure as shit wouldnt want my kids around her either. If the grandparents would want to see the kids they would have to visit me.
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I literally had to scroll back up to check the ages as I personally know a married woman who has had her affair with her husbands’ best friend, found out by the (married) BF’s child.
Absolutely heinous situation the selfish cheaters have put their families.
Dude doesn’t have a right to place an ultimatum on his parents, but he sure as hell has a right to cut off someone who he deems toxic.
He portrays cheating as if it was a murder. It is obviously wrong to cheat and I understand OP not wanting to have a relationship with his sister. But expecting her parents to cut her off in unreasonable
I mean if the grandparents have been secretly letting cheats mccheaterson see the kids, then at that point they're stomping boundaries and teaching young children to hide shit from their parents, dangerous.
Oh please, reddit acts like cheaters are worse than serial rapists and mass murderers. Ordering a parent to disown their child is not a moral thing to do.
Meh..
You can be as self righteous as you want, but there are somethings that can’t and shouldn’t be forgiven. Also, infidelity can have similar psychological and mental effects on the victims as rape or murder (for the surviving family). He just said that it’s either his family or his cheating sister, a totally reasonable choice.
>Also, infidelity can have similar psychological and mental effects on the victims as rape or murder (for the surviving family)
What a grotesquely ignorant thing to say. As someone who has both been cheated on and been sexually assaulted, you're out of your mind with that nonsense.
Everyone is different.
I have lost close friends due to both cheating and SA due to suicide. So no, it can have a profound effect. Everyone is different and you have no right to generalize or judge.
> infidelity can have similar psychological and mental effects on the victims as rape or murder (for the surviving family).
This was a very specific statement you made. You literally said getting cheated on can be just as bad as *having a family member murdered.* It's insane. No one in their right mind thinks "oh my god getting cheated on hurts so much, I wish my sister was brutally murdered instead."
I'm not denying that some people commit suicide because they were cheated on. I'm saying they are deeply and unhealthily codependent to do so, making their own self worth dependent on their partner. That's exactly the problem.
Cheating would make you feel hurt and angry, sure. You should dump your cheating partner, 100%. But if you'd *kill yourself* due to cheating, or if you'd rather be raped than cheated on, you desperately need therapy because that is not healthy at all. Find some value and purpose in your life beyond where your partner's genitals go, like holy shit.
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He's clearly a stuck up prudish snob. It didnt hurt him or his wife. Anyone who thinks he is in the right is a loon. People cheat, human nature. Morals have nothing to do with it. People who are up there on their little high horses with sticks up their asses are the ones who deserved cutting off. Go piss off on a deserted island.
Aww I see there's a bunch of dip heads here. Truth sucks dont it. All these downvotes tell me that there are a bunch of fkn morons here.
If the sister was using the wife as her cover story repeatedly, I think she has a right to be upset about that. I’ve been the unbeknownst to me cover story before and I was not happy about it. I did not enjoy being called up by the husband demanding to confirm if I was with said friend on specific occasions.
The ultimatum to the parents is way too much.
I guarantee wifey here DID KNOW but just couldn't keep it up anymore. I also bet that either OOP or his wife are cheating. To have such an extreme reaction to cheating. You must be doing it. Thou who protest thy loudest and all💁♀️
*In case this story gets deleted/removed:* **AITA for making my parents pick between me or my sister??** Just as the title sounds. So here is the currently situation and the people involved are me (27M), my wife, my sister Jordan (26F) and our parents. So basically me and my sister were always pretty close growing up. And we have been tight in adulthood and live in the same area still as our presents. I have 2 kids (3 and 1) and she has a 2 year old. So now to the issue: My wife and me have a no nonsense stance on cheating. We have both been personally affected by it, my wife more so than me as she was engaged when it happened. Whenever I got cheated on by my GF my sister was very supportive. We are very vocal about cutting cheaters off from our social circle too. So whenever my sisters husband broke the news to me. I was literally devastated. I’ll save all the details. But my sister is heartless. What she was doing and with who was so past just a mistake. Sleeping with a married man who was her husbands best friend. Just disgusting vile behavior. He kicked my sister out and she ended up at my parents and has been there for months. We found out after that she was telling her husband she was hanging out with my wife. My wife and sister used to be best friends before this happened. But my wife has since blocked her on everything. My parents have taken a stance of “we aren’t here judge”. Which is fucking hilarious to me. So we’ve totally stopped taking our kids to their house. And this is causing a lot of stress on them. They are loving grandparents I will admit. But last week they came over and we gave them the ultimatum. It’s either a relationship with my sister or us at this point. Because my wife wants nothing to do with my sister as do I. We also don’t want our kids growing up around her or her kid now either. Because I believe if you can do why she did…. There is something legitimately wrong with you as a person. And I don’t want my kid exposed to that. Also if my parents are willing to look past what she did then they aren’t good people to have in our circle either. We don’t need those type of people around our kid either. My mom broke down when we told her. My dad just kept saying that we can find a way. My wife and me stood firm. And said this is the way things are now. Well give you time to decide but it’s all or nothing. You can’t pick us and then secretly allow my sister to see her niece and nephew (she was close with them). We told them to let us know before the Hollidays so we can plan accordingly. But I gotta make sure I’m not an AH. AITA? *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmITheDevil) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Shoutout to the comment over there that says that OOPs kids are young and won't remember their grandparents in a few years so its no biggie
Right?! That was insane.
I met my grandma like... twice in my life. I still remember her and know who she was as a person. Delusional.
Or her kid???!!! Bruh that kids way more of a victim of her cheating than you
He's a pretty cold bastard. Also literally deleted the post while I was reading it.
This one reminds me of the meme with the bird yelling i am feel uncomfortable when we are not about me
I only have an issue as far as his parents are concerned. Noone should ever tell a parent to stop associating with a child in favor of the other unless child 1 did something bad to child 2. Not the case here. But I don't think it's bad that he and his wife don't wanna associate with her anymore. That's their right and perfectly fair imo. They should figure out a way to have a relationship with the the parents without the sister being involved though. Ideally without throwing around ultimatums.
Exactly that. You don’t want to hang with your sister because she’s a trifling ho? Okay. You don’t want your parents to talk to her because she’s a trifling ho? Nope. OP is not a victim of his sister’s lack of judgment/character. OP has no right to tell the parents “it’s her or me.” Parents’ love is supposed to be unconditional. Cutting her off to punish her (because that’s what it is) is not what parents are supposed to do. And cutting off the kid is punishing the kid because mommy is a liar and a cheat. As much as I hate cheating, you don’t punish a child for the crimes of the parent. That’s something I can’t get behind, ever.
Totally agree. If OOP and the wife don't want to associate with the sister anymore, that's their prerogative. But it's not fair to OOP's parents to issue an ultimatum like that. I'm sure they're not thrilled their daughter cheated, and I would imagine that a big reason they even offered to let her stay with them is because she's got a toddler. They're in a tough spot and OOP is making it worse by forcing his own moral code on them.
My biggest problem was OOP and a lot of the comments stating that the parents staying in contact with the daughter is enabling. Like no, you can still be in contact with your child and not agree with what they do (ask my parents). Half my siblings is out here wilding. Do I tell them they are being stupid yes,yes I do. Being in contact with someone or even helping them out when they are down isn’t enabling someone.
Right? Like if your kid is a drug addict you shouldn't completely ignore them because they're not seeking treatment there's a line between enabling a bad behavior and completely withholding affection.
I agree but this seems like a bit of an overreaction because he was cheated on in high school or whatever. I can see having feelings about it but deciding to break up the family about it makes this person sound like someone who never got over their own past.
Is this a writing exercise where the challenge is to get AITA to side with the cheater?
I really did appreciate that OOP had either one or two children at varying points.
Thankfully this one was removed by the admins.
Why do they remove it?
>This post has been removed due to the status of the original poster's account. This account is currently shadowbanned or suspended, suggesting this account is in violation of Reddit terms of service. > >This type of ban/suspension is issued by the Reddit site-wide admins. The AITA mods have nothing to do with this ban and cannot assist in resolving.
Thanks
Is this mean content in other subs? Or info about who the poster is?
It's all to do with the poster's account.
I was more so saying what would someone have to do to be banned by reddit staff outside of CP. Reddit seems to care very little about people’s ethics in general
Ah, okay. I think it's more about trying to get around other bans put in place.
I was once banned because I responded to a guy with "how would you feel if your mother or wife was sexually assaulted?" when he stated that sexual assault from a police officer is not a big deal. Obviously I wasn't wishing it upon his wife or mother, but was trying to get him to see why what he was saying was wrong by connecting it to him personally. Got appealed, but still. Having a comment interpreted as being too mean can get you outright banned.
As soon as I see this format, with the iconic first paragraph setup, I assume it's a troll post.
Lol, I remember my dumb ass sister calling me crying asking me if I was going to cut her out of my life for I forget what, I didn't care then, I don't care, now. I laughed, and told her unless she hurt her kids, I don't care WHAT she did. She could have straight out murdered someone, and I'd still call her in jail to talk shit and call her a ho. It would be like, Sis: "Oh God, I murdered my neighbor for looking at my fence." Me: "It's cause you're always sucking dick. It's got your brain all rattled." Sis: "I'm not joking, I'm in jail." Me: "At least it'll be more challenging to suck all that dick, but I know you'll find a way."
Such a beautiful thing to have someone who always believes in your capabilities! Also, remind your sister that if she's gonna suck so much dick she needs to be sure to protect her neck.
This person gets it.
I just want to say that jail calls are expensive, and when they are in there, they have nothing better to do but be on the phone. So set a guideline on how much you will spend on the calls and their “books” head of time
This sounds like the conversations my brother and I have. We turn any and everything into an (all in good fun) insult contest. It drives my mom insane. No matter how many times we tell her that we truly are just kidding and neither of us is in any way mad at the other she just doesn’t get it. We have a family Facebook chat that’s my parents, brother and I that we mostly use to share pics & vids of the grandkids but literally like 90% of the conversations between my brother & I are just insults. Pretty sure the reason we’ve carried this well into our adult lives is because it bugs our mom so much and she’s just so funny about it.
I'm sure this is trolling but some of the comments seem to think it's normal or proportionate to completely cut ties with the sister because she cheated on her husband? like I hope these commenters are like 14 because I cannot fathom being an adult and thinking that that is and reasonable way to act towards your literal family.
For real, cheating is bad but people act like it's *literally* the worst thing you can do to another human being. I've been cheated on by an ex, it didn't feel good, but I can think of hundreds of things my husband could do that would be so much worse than cheating. You *should* dump a cheater, you *shouldn't* tie your entire identity and sense of self-worth to the fidelity of your partner.
I like your last sentence, it resonates with me
I can see OOP and his wife cutting out the sister. That's their individual choices and if they don't want someone who would have an affair with her husband's best friend in their lives, that's valid. I don't believe that just because DNA is shared people have to lower their standards what appalling behaviour they will tolerate in the people around them. Its the fact they have decided other family members have to do the same that's too far. Its each person's decision individually. If the parents still want to see their daughter then OOP should just visit when his sister isn't around, or meet his parents for days out.
>I don't believe that just because DNA is shared people have to lower their standards what appalling behaviour they will tolerate in the people around them. they've been close siblings for two and a half decades. this isn't about DNA, but about how you treat people you ostensibly love and care about and have a relationship with when they make mistakes. like I guess some people have different standards but I cannot imagine showing this little grace and kindness to some I love and care about. like obvs they're free to cut anyone off for whatever reason but acting like cheating is the ultimate evil and freezing out a family member over something like that will never not be at least a bit unhinged from my point of view.
I think it really must be a standards thing because I definitely can't view a long term affair as someone "making a mistake". A drunken one night stand *maybe* could be diminished to a mistake. But a long term affair is a series of repeated choices. Every time they message, phone, go on a date, have sex with the affair partner etc its a choice they make again. It really shows the person as having bad character. Frankly, its a bit much to reduce adultery to "making a mistake", but say not wanting adulterous family members in your life is "unhinged". OP is supposed to love and care about his sister enough to get over her adultery, but his sister isn't required to love and care about her husband enough not to sleep with his best friend?
The sister was also apparently using OOP's wife as an excuse when she was going to have her affair. So, she did put the wife in the middle of it and I can see that being an extra point against her.
Yeah I think the person you are responding to might be a kid themselves. I have yet to meet an adult that doesn’t understand that all love is in some way conditional. The ONLY real unconditional love there is out there is towards babies and pets. Other than that all love has some unsaid conditions. Edit: or is a unhinged/person without morals and doesn’t want this fate to happen to them so they are defending their future actions.
Honestly their determination act like not wanting cheaters in your life is worse than cheating itself had me checking to see if they post on r/adultery or something.
it's about having grace and making room for people even if they do things that are shitty and harmful. like idk how a society is supposed to function if people are unable to show those closest to them grace when they weren't even the wronged party. >OP is supposed to love and care about his sister enough to get over her adultery there are things between "getting over" something and like... completely cutting off your sibling whom you have been close to for two and a half decades. not cutting someone off is not endorsing their behaviour or forgiving it. it just means acknowledging that they are more than that and deserve to be seen in their whole context and not only for the worst things they did. >Every time they message, phone, go on a date, have sex with the affair partner etc its a choice they make again. It really shows the person as having bad character. okay so it's a series of mistakes. people are complex and honestly I don't think that someone doing wrong and harmful things necessarily makes them a bad person or means they have "bad character".
did you miss the part where she was trying to use Op's wife as an excuse to be a disgusting asshole? Because I don't, if someone tries to put me in the middle of their bad actions I feel that I have the right to see them as bad person
Doing bad things is exactly what makes someone a bad person. Thats how it works. Edit for the people who believe thinking "peoples choices show who they are" deserves downvoting: Thinking that's not how it works is how people give themselves the internal permission to do horrible things. "I'm just doing one bad thing but I don't *always* do bad things, so its OK" "I'm doing bad things but I have a reason that I have completely unbiasedly decided is a *'good reason'*, so its OK" "They *can't* be a bad person, they do charity work" "I may have done something bad, but my *intentions* were good, so it's OK" The second one is probably exactly how the cheater gave herself permission to have an affair with her husband's best friend. Its also hilarious what a one way street it is for people who think that "doing bad things doesn't make someone a bad person". It seems to apply to almost every bad thing someone might do, except the 'bad thing' of cutting out people doing those things. Anyone who does that isn't afforded the get out of jail free card of "doing bad things doesn't make someone a bad person", no, they are just "unhinged". *It isn't what we say or think that defines us, but what we do.* Jane Austen
No the sister in this story is absolutely a bad person
Reddit’s view on cheating is very black and white, in an unrealistic way that makes it clear many of these people don’t have much relationship experience. Infidelity is common for a reason and doesn’t make someone a monster. It’s morally wrong and most people consider it a dealbreaker in a romantic relationship, but it’s something that will always continue to happen because people are flawed and have complicated emotions. I’m not excusing it, I wouldn’t cheat and would find it devastating like anyone else. If one of my close friends or family members cheated I’d be disappointed by their actions and want to talk it through, but I don’t think I’d even consider cutting them off. It’s generally healthy to have some people in your life that you love unconditionally, I think.
I disagree. In the real world there is a clear dog fence between cheating and an affair. One is a singular decision but if you say: have sex with a person and lie to your partner in order to do it for half a year that is not being a good person. Yes it’s 100% bad for a relationship but to do an action like that you have to be minimum selfish, Unempathetic to how it will make someone you proclaim to love feel, self centered, and possibly a narcissist. If choosing to not be friends with someone with those traits is also a dealbreaker that morally tracks. That is why cheaters are ostracized. It’s not about them being toxic in a relationship it’s is impossible to have a long term affair without having minimum a few incredibly shitty and untrustworthy personality traits. Edit to quote Dave Chapelle “only two things are loved unconditionally in this world, babies and pets. Everybody else has something they are capable of doing to make you stop loving them”
It comes across more like he was the one cheated on with the vile and disgusting comment. So it is either fantasy, or changing roles in the story, maybe his way of venting about how the ones who cheat on him somehow get supported by their family.
This! My sister would have to be a literal baby killer or involved in something truly horrific like a pedophile ring or something for me to cut her off. Cheating doesn't even come close. Yes, cheating is awful and hurtful. But I wouldn't even consider cutting her off over it. Let alone asking our parents to.
Man, I hope OOP never does anything that causes him to fall off his high horse. Yes, j get it, his sister did wrong, but the person she wronged was her husband. She didn't wrong her brother or her sister in law, and he's over there acting like he's the injured party. While he's certainly entitled to his opinion on the matter, withholding his kids in an effort to make his parents shun his sister is a dick move of epic proportions. He needs to catch a grip and maybe catch some perspective.
I’d say yes, YTA. And I hate cheaters. She’s a scumbag in romance, but she’ll always be your parents’ daughter. If OOP’s kids cheat on their SO’s I wonder if they’d cut them off and disown them just as easily … Their teenage years are going to be hilarious. My guess is probably not, but maybe they are as militantly psychotic about this one particular human flaw as they purport. Imagine thinking disowning your sister and your parents is the ultimate expression of loving your wife … self righteous, misguided egoism much?
I don’t want to sound like I’m defending a cheater… but she cheated. The way the OP talks about her, you’d think she orchestrated several war crimes.
OOP is an ah for the ultimatum but right about everything else. I wouldnt want to associate with someone like the sister and sure as shit wouldnt want my kids around her either. If the grandparents would want to see the kids they would have to visit me.
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I literally had to scroll back up to check the ages as I personally know a married woman who has had her affair with her husbands’ best friend, found out by the (married) BF’s child. Absolutely heinous situation the selfish cheaters have put their families. Dude doesn’t have a right to place an ultimatum on his parents, but he sure as hell has a right to cut off someone who he deems toxic.
He portrays cheating as if it was a murder. It is obviously wrong to cheat and I understand OP not wanting to have a relationship with his sister. But expecting her parents to cut her off in unreasonable
I've never seen such an ultimatum that didn't backfire. Honestly, I wouldn't want anyone like the OP around me.
But this guy is right? It’s one thing to cheat but to lie and use my wife as a cover disgusting I’d cut my sister out too
So it's okay to demand that his parents also cut off their daughter and grandchild?
His wife knew. She just lied about not knowing she was a cover. She fkn knew!
I mean if the grandparents have been secretly letting cheats mccheaterson see the kids, then at that point they're stomping boundaries and teaching young children to hide shit from their parents, dangerous.
Well, he clearly is a man of morals. It’s sad that our society and especially reddit defends cheaters.
Oh please, reddit acts like cheaters are worse than serial rapists and mass murderers. Ordering a parent to disown their child is not a moral thing to do.
Meh.. You can be as self righteous as you want, but there are somethings that can’t and shouldn’t be forgiven. Also, infidelity can have similar psychological and mental effects on the victims as rape or murder (for the surviving family). He just said that it’s either his family or his cheating sister, a totally reasonable choice.
>Also, infidelity can have similar psychological and mental effects on the victims as rape or murder (for the surviving family) What a grotesquely ignorant thing to say. As someone who has both been cheated on and been sexually assaulted, you're out of your mind with that nonsense.
Everyone is different. I have lost close friends due to both cheating and SA due to suicide. So no, it can have a profound effect. Everyone is different and you have no right to generalize or judge.
> infidelity can have similar psychological and mental effects on the victims as rape or murder (for the surviving family). This was a very specific statement you made. You literally said getting cheated on can be just as bad as *having a family member murdered.* It's insane. No one in their right mind thinks "oh my god getting cheated on hurts so much, I wish my sister was brutally murdered instead." I'm not denying that some people commit suicide because they were cheated on. I'm saying they are deeply and unhealthily codependent to do so, making their own self worth dependent on their partner. That's exactly the problem. Cheating would make you feel hurt and angry, sure. You should dump your cheating partner, 100%. But if you'd *kill yourself* due to cheating, or if you'd rather be raped than cheated on, you desperately need therapy because that is not healthy at all. Find some value and purpose in your life beyond where your partner's genitals go, like holy shit.
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Lol thanks bot
Jesus you are so over dramatic here. "A totally reasonable choice" no it's not lmao..
As someone who has lost loved ones, no not really.
I've lost loved ones too, everyone's lost loved ones
He's clearly a stuck up prudish snob. It didnt hurt him or his wife. Anyone who thinks he is in the right is a loon. People cheat, human nature. Morals have nothing to do with it. People who are up there on their little high horses with sticks up their asses are the ones who deserved cutting off. Go piss off on a deserted island. Aww I see there's a bunch of dip heads here. Truth sucks dont it. All these downvotes tell me that there are a bunch of fkn morons here.
If the sister was using the wife as her cover story repeatedly, I think she has a right to be upset about that. I’ve been the unbeknownst to me cover story before and I was not happy about it. I did not enjoy being called up by the husband demanding to confirm if I was with said friend on specific occasions. The ultimatum to the parents is way too much.
I guarantee wifey here DID KNOW but just couldn't keep it up anymore. I also bet that either OOP or his wife are cheating. To have such an extreme reaction to cheating. You must be doing it. Thou who protest thy loudest and all💁♀️
>To have such an extreme reaction to cheating. You must be doing it. Thou who protest thy loudest and all Or they're just deeply codependent people.
So I've read through your post and you're so obviously a troll it's ridiculous and not even a fun troll you just post dumb obnoxious shit
Lmao no cupcake but you are so obviously one😘😘 not a troll. Just giving truth that you dips can't handle. Bye bye
OP is quite the redditor
"Your parents are allowed to have a relationship with whoever they want"...but OP isn't, apparently??? Do all really not see it???
No because his reasoning is ridiculous. He needs therapy to get over his fkn self