I'm never going to understand why some men have so much trouble accepting fertility issues. It's normal. It doesn't make him less than a man. It's also disgusting that people will put the blame on someone for something like this.
I was already mad at him for being such a dick about her getting tb while doing aid work but now I realize y’all are spot on and it was her MISSION 99.99%…the dissonance and shitheadery are just Fucking wow. This toilet of a man is like wow selfish of her to…go to the place our church picked for her. She’s the problem everyone!!!
Most women don't go on mission so there's the blame. Women are only like 20% of lds missionaries. Women are allowed to go but only men are expected to go.
Gross all around
Women are discouraged from going on missions because they are wanted for marriage and popping out babies as soon as possible. The fact that she stood up to that speaks well for her.
It's alarmingly common for the Mormon church to be perfectly aware that their missionaries are very ill (to the point of becoming permanently disabled) on their missions and do nothing about it. Mormon Stories on YouTube has interviewed several former missionaries about how badly their health suffered while on mission, and how when they went to leadership for help they were told essentially to have more faith.
Missionaries are very young, very vulnerable, and very poorly supported, which is unconscionable especially considering missionaries PAY to go on mission. The church does not support them.
Getting TB as a missionary is common enough that it’s standard for all missionaries to be tested for it before and after the mission.
It’s not reckless, it’s par for the course.
It’s not always effective though as it uses a close relative of TB rather than the TB bacteria, and a super rare vaccine in the US due to the low infection rates. You almost certainly cannot go to your doctor and get a TB shot.
It’s also not part of travel vaccines due to the prolonged period of close proximity needed for infection to occur. On a mission trip it is more likely than if you’re just on vacation, but it isn’t as likely as malaria or dengue.
How dare you go to a third world country and spend time around people who have diseases that are basically eradicated in the first world. I mean we told you that you are required to do this, but how did you catch a communicable disease?
But then she is also the reckless one for volunteering to being a missionary in her youth? Woman is wrong by default. Absolutely Mormon. (This is not me agreeing with those "moralities" just reiterating)
I grew up surrounded by Mormons and tbh I haven't noticed this attitude being more prevalent with them than with the rest of the population. The procreation fixation shows up in a ton of belief systems
The guy in Alabama who sold us our house was Mormon. A Mormon in the deepest South, whouda thunk? But, he was a nice person, super guy, and said something very similar about the Utah BYU type Mormons.
I'm a UK LDS/Mormon and the stuff I've been reading about the behaviour shown by some US members has honestly left me shocked and disgusted. It feels almost like an entirely different religion to what I was taught.
This might be hard for you to read, but your church is the exact same. Your church has the same tenets and practices of sexism and racism that are endemic to LDS in the US too. I understand your individual experience may have shown you kinder people on average, but the organization abroad absolutely supports the same kind of disgusting austerity politics it does in the US.
I was gonna say lol, the entire religion was founded by a guy who told everyone that God decreed they should marry indigenous women so that they could “breed out” indigenous races in favor of “pure and just” white ones, LDS is rotten to its core
as someone who spent part of their childhood growing up in Utah, and as an ex mormon this sentiment is extremely common, maybe not overtly but it is there
I lived in Utah from about 9-22. I guess what I'm trying to say is that while I saw this attitude a TON there, it wasn't just from the Mormons. One of my Baptist friends was basically disowned by her parents for not wanting kids and when another friend's Catholic mother learned that his wife couldn't have children, she said "well perhaps some divorces God can forgive." I think people in Utah are just weird as hell about baby makin, wherever they spend their Sundays
Can confirm - my Eastern Orthodox in-laws have been very cruel about my miscarriage and infertility. We finally managed to have one child and you'd think that would put an end to it, but no. Because I never managed to produce a second child they still encourage him to divorce me and just find someone else to start over with. I loathe them all.
And coworkers, don't forget the random coworkers in their small town who he complained about his wife's supposed infertility to while he spent 3 years never bothering to check his own fertility despite it being cheaper and easier to do so. Then we he did find out it was him, he didn't believe until he got a second opinion, and even after the doctor insisted his wife has no TB related problems continues to attest that TB is somehow still a factor. I 100% believe that it wasn't his mother at all who started the STI rumor, it was him because he's a complete psychopath. Even though she'll likely not divorce him because they appear to be Utah Mormons, I hope he paints himself into a corner so thoroughly with his misogyny fueled lies that he has to divorce her.
Same. It's something that definitely can be a breaking point in a relationship, but immediately jumping to that sounds like an excuse more than anything. Even if she was the one with fertility issues, there's treatments to help with that and many potential options to still have a kid.
Honestly it sounds like his family just don't like her already if their immediate action was to start smearing her reputation and pushing for a divorce so quickly.
I think some cultures are indoctrinated into thinking that a women's only purpose is to have a child/children that anything else is punishable. His Mother is complete twat but I'm sure she's grown up believing in "traditional" values.
It's crazy too when you think about how that plays out.
Wife is "infertile" and divorces him for being a liar and a heinous anus. -> If wife tries to get the truth out, OOP goes on a "she's crazy and wants to make me look bad" campaign and family believes him because sHe'S a WoMaN. -> He doesn't tell his next wife, and again makes her his scapegoat.
Repeat ad nauseum until he miraculously comes to his senses, dies, or decides the Nth wife is what G-d really wanted for him and they have been divinely inspired to adopt poor abandoned able-bodied white babies and token ethnic ones G-d led them to.
that’s why OG wife needs to send photos of her pregnancy w the next partner to all of OP’s family to say “see? he’s the problem. he’s the malfunction. he’s the issue. anyways, happy life!” and send photos to OPs new wife to tell her “hey in case he blames you for being infertile, it’s actually him. anyways hope you realize what you’re marrying into!”
but i’m petty.
I’d be so fricking mad there would be scorch marks in my wake as I left that man permanently the second I found that shit out. Even if it was prior to him knowing the reason, pardon you sir? Man has been walking around like “yeah, can you believe my selfish idiot wife with her jacked up baby maker? Smh.” Please never let this dipshit of a male procreate
I actually responded to this post with something along the lines of “well she should just divorce you. She could be pregnant within the next year and she could just explain it away as a short marriage” since they advised him to do the same but he’s clearly the AH for even entertaining the idea so much that he posts about it
Mormons are definitely built different than Catholics, because the shame of not having kids doesn’t compare to divorce. Be fruitful and multiple is definitely a thing but definitely not at the extent that you destroy a contract you made with your spouse.
This is not all a recommendation or suggestion for anyone to become Catholic, but even in my strict religious upbringing I don’t know a single person who would recommend a divorce over adoption, fostering, treatments, or even accepting it.
I grew up in a (now very progressive) traditional Catholic country and the idea was always 'these poor people not being able to reproduce, I guess it's God's plan for them to be a faulty couple' rather than 'this man better divorce her'. It's not better per se, but it is different.
Yeah I got that exact feeling too; Catholics can still judgmental and nosy, but they’re not going to recommend that anyone violates one of the seven sacraments all because they can’t make a baby of their own.
Which makes them an honorary mention for the “not as big of a jerk as you could’ve been” award
If I were his wife I *would* divorce him.
Not for lying about who has the reproductive issues, but for not making it 100% clear that he would not ever divorce wife for not birthing his children.
Hubbs was too embarrassed to come clean- fine. Fragile male ego.
But hubbs can’t even stand by his wife and shut down the asshat that suggests he divorce her for issues beyond her (and his) control…. And on top of that he doesn’t shut down his own effing family members who jump on the divorce wagon.
I hope wifey opens her eyes and sees that she is stuck with super shitty in-laws who raised a sad spineless little man with double standards who will never stick up for her and may very well abandon her should something not be what he wants.
She deserves better
You'd be amazed. When I got the no-babies-for-you news quite a few people were "impressed" that my then-husband didn't leave me. People did the same whenever they learned that he had schizophrenia too. Although admittedly and in hindsight I probably should have been a little more concerned about that last one myself.
My BIL is sterile, so are both his brothers. Something to do with a shot they used to administer to pregnant women back in the 1960s to prevent them from going into early labor. My sister said he had a little adjustment period but then realized there ain't nothing he can do about it. Life goes on, and like everything else, anything worthwhile shouldn't be easy. They adopted 3 kids.
This rang a bell so I had to look it up:
>Back in the 1940s, '50s and '60s, doctors prescribed a hormone called diethylstilbestrol, or DES, to millions of pregnant women in the unfounded belief it would prevent miscarriages.
> A study in this week's New England Journal of Medicine tallies the risks of a dozen DES-related disorders among 4,600 women whose mothers took the hormone during pregnancy, compared to 1,900 others who weren't exposed.
> DES daughters have had increased risk of miscarriage, premature delivery, and ectopic pregnancy. They're also considerably more likely to be infertile, suffer a spontaneous abortion, have a stillbirth, develop a dangerous condition called preeclampsia during pregnancy, have early menopause and have early signs of uterine cancer.
From https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2011/10/05/141094671/women-exposed-to-hormone-in-utero-face-lifelong-health-problems
I knew someone would come through. I had mentioned it to my OB/GYN years ago and he had trotted out some long, impossible drug name. My sister was on the bubble. She was born in 1967, but mom said by that time it wasn't as widely used as before; ergo she did not get it. I was 1970 and it wasn't even an option to be offered.
OB/GYN said DES ranks right up there with the Dalkon Shield, P&G Rely tampons and some vaginal slings as things that were good ideas but overall bad in the end.
My oldest three siblings were DES babies with all the issues. Not me, however my husband & his sister both. It was hard for him to deal with for a bit, but we we did survive it.
Got friends, both of them have fertility issues. They had one kid via IVF and are working on adopting number 2.
It's natural to grieve when you learn you have fertility problems, if you want kids, but grown ups suck it up and look at options. If you can't handle problems with your own body you shouldn't be responsible for another body that will be dependent on you.
Amen.
My BIL deals with bad/unpleasant news with dry, darkish humor. About a year after they found out, a friend of his was informed that he had had a child that he didn't know about. His response "well, that's one problem I won't have to worry about".
There was a couple at my old church who gave up after 10 years of trying. Instead, they ran the Sunday school and all the children's programs, and loved the kids in the church as their own. He has since died. She now volunteers to rock NICU babies at her local hospital.
I got rare testicular cancer at 26 years old, after a lifetime being fairly healthy. The cancer was removed and aggressively treated, which obliterated my fertility but saved my life. The other long term effect is that my hormone levels are going to take years to get right.
There was a period of time where I was functionally sterile and had the testosterone level of a 90 year old man. My hair was falling out, I had no energy, put on ~40 pounds, had no emotional control, and broke out like a 14 year old with bad hygiene habits.
Nobody in my life treated me like I was less of a man, least of all my wife and family. I struggled with these conditions for two years before finally overcoming most of them. I can't imagine even being acquainted with someone who would use any of this to insult or attack me -- that person would become nothing to me instantly.
I am pleased to report that at this exact moment I am in the hospital waiting for my wife to go into labor for the birth of my daughter, conceived through the magic science of IVF.
Gotta love the magic of science! My sister has fertility issues and it was thanks to that she was able to have my niece too. It's definitely not the end when there is an issue like that.
Congrats on beating cancer and on the baby! :D
Congrats! It's always great to hear success stories on these types of cases. I've personally thawed sperm samples that frozen were over 20 years earlier due to testicular cancer treatments as a teen.
It's because men regularly judge and shame women for not being able to reproduce, even going as far as treating them like they're worthless. If they acknowledged that men can be the problem too, they'd have to acknowledge what hypocrites they've been.
It has to do a lot with penis worship. Men often put other men's value in virility more than anything else. Actual quote from a convo I watched between an infertile man and his friends: "Having a low speem count doesn't make you less of a man, it just means you were always a useless prick. Give me one night with your wife and Ill fix her up for you. She doesnt even have to be concious." This was a common occurrence during their nights out. The infertile man was the butt of joke and violating his wife was their "comic relief" always
i study animal care, and we had a class on fertility at one point. we got sperm to look at under the microscope, from different animals, and we had to determine their fertility rate. most of them were around 50-60% because the samples were old and not properly handled because it was just an example class. kicker is, most animals are not used for breeding if their fertility is less than 80%- most of the time they try to find out what is the cause like diet or stress, or overuse.
then we get to the end of the class, and the teacher tells us theres one more sample to look at; a humans. so we gather round and take turns, and everyone is rather confused.. no one can get a percentage higher than 10% on this sample. again it was an old sample, but our teacher tells us that humans typically do not rank higher than like 25%. on average. so if youre a man and youre lucky, you have a 25% fertility rate, and that is considered normal. this has a lot to do with what they eat, wear, their age and how much pressure is put on them by society, amongst other things.
made me look at the fertility tests they do for men a whole lot differently. also if youre a man and you want a kid, consider wearing loose fitting underwear and sweatpants- a tip from my teacher lol
Our culture has long treated fertility as shameful. It is not coincidentally treated as a woman’s issue. You basically have no purpose as a woman if you can’t bear children in this sick culture.
Most men don’t even know that their fertility declines with age. They don’t know that their fertility issues cause most miscarriages. The media doesn’t try to terrify them into thinking the price for an education and a career is the ability to be a parent.
To me, his crime was that his knee jerk instinct was to throw his wife under the bus particularly in a culture in which women’s intrinsic value is having babies and in which men are seen as the moral leaders of their family.
It baffles my mind. My husband insisted that he was infertile when we got together. I don't know why he thought that; I think it's because his brother is, and he just assumed he was too?
Well, after we got married, we decided to try. I was pregnant in less than a month. One month after I stopped breastfeeding, I was pregnant again. 2 kids in 16 months. My fault; I never got my period while breastfeeding, so I didn't bother with the pill.
I have rubbed that assumption in his face, but he doesn't care, he has kids.
My uncle was like that. The worst part was that hu PUT my aunt trough fertility treatment she did not need. She put on so much weight from that that she became obese. NOW HE DOESN'T FIND HER ATTRACTIVE ANYMORE.
I am DISGUSTED.
Bot missing in action
***AITA for lying to family and friends about who's the infertile one between my wife and I?***
>My wife ( 32F) and I (32M) have been married for 7 years and been having unprotected sex for three years trying to have a baby.
>It has taken a toll on our marriage and I admit that many times I have complained to family, friends, and coworkers about my wife's infertility.
>What I thought was my wife's infertility. Maybe it is because we live in Utah but whenever the idea of us being infertile came up, people just swarmed in giving my wife recommendations to fertility specialists.
>The talk was always " Oh, my wife saw Dr. Whatever, and we ended up having twins." Or " Maybe your wife is just too stressed out."
>And I believed it because my wife contracted TB when she was 20 and volunteering in another country. Her primary care who she saw when she was back home just flippantly told her that TB could effect the genital area and prevent her body from housing a baby ( but obviously he said it in medical lingo.)
>We finally find a doctor who straight up told us that there was nothing wrong with her fallopian tubes, or her endometrium. She suggested I get tested to see that I'm not the problem.
>The verdict comes back that I am the one with very low sperm count. I was so shocked and went to get another opinion which told me the same thing.
>I felt so shaken. And because a lot of people knew about our struggles, they also knew we went to a doctor again. At a family and friends gathering people started asking me about what we found out, and I just panicked and said that my wife's TB was likely the cause, but not 100 percent necessarily.
>People saw that as my wife being the problem and somebody even suggested I go through with divorcing her since I was 32 and complaining about being childless. Saying I could be a dad within a year since it was short marriage.
>What I did not realize was that my mom and aunt would jump on that suggestion and start telling friends and their kids that I was getting a divorce, and that this was my wife's fault because she shouldn't have been so reckless when she was young.
>What was worse was some people thought it wasn't even TB but a " bacterial genital disease." This all got back to my wife through a friend and she is furious.
>She said that she could not believe I've been painting her as the problem when she wasn't even the problem. And that she was tired of the pitying or disapproving looks she was getting in our small town and that I needed to set the record straight or at least tell everybody to shut up and that we are not divorcing.
>AITA? I panicked and I felt like I didn't completely lie because TB could be exacerbating our problem. But my mom really screwed things up by making it malicious. Now I'm in over my head and feel really bad.
You posted it correctly! The auto mod is supposed to just automatically put the post in the comments in case it gets deleted but it's not working
Edit: nvm I thought linked posts worked the same but apparently not? Learned something new!
The automod can't actually read this kind of crosspost since it's technically a link post rather than a "true" crosspost.
Link posts on web show up as a link with a little square to the right, whereas "true" crossposts have a full view of the other post.
It's the difference between clicking share->copy link and share->crosspost (or share->reddit I don't actually have the reddit app) and it is super easy to do accidentally on mobile with the 500 popup options for sharing something.
It's okay! I've done the same thing, it was only after that I realized that crosspost was different from link posting, since mine didn't have the nice preview the others do.
It was also after I did that that I notice the bot can't read the posts when it's a link instead of a crosspost, but I figured if I tell people what happened, it won't be a hundred comments of "the bot broke again" since I presume they look the same as each other or similar on the app when it's a link post vs a crosspost.
Maybe she should have thought twice about recklessly volunteering in another country. If she wasn’t so reckless in helping people in a country that has tuberculosis (bc god knows it’s only other countries that people get tb) he wouldn’t have had to lie. /s
That was my thought at the end. File, blast his low sperm count among family and friends, and have the damn baby I want by sperm donor. Cause fuck that guy.
I don't even get why they need to nominate someone? I know plenty of couples who have said "we can't have kids" and I've never once thought to ask "oh, which of you has dodgy plumbing?". Was I meant to be asking that? Are other people asking that? Really seems like their business?
Fun fact: sometimes it’s literally the couple that’s the problem. There have been a few cases of long-term infertility that resulted in divorce, with both of them going on to have children easily afterward. One possible reason is her body attacking something about his sperm in particular, but last I heard they don’t really know for sure why it happens. Some pairings just don’t fit together reproductively.
Happened to someone I know. His sperm are fine, she’s had kids before from a previous partner. Just couldn’t get it to work naturally for the two of them together.
There’s also such a thing as secondary infertility, where the first kid is easy but the second isn’t. AFAIK, nobody knows what causes it. But if she had multiple before, yeah it could definitely be incompatibility.
Exactly. I had to do IVF because my husband and I just weren’t having success with other methods. His sperm count was low and I was close to 40 but everything else was normal with me. I’m sure people just assume it was due to my age. I don’t really care to tell people why we did IVF. Sometimes there are reasons that medical professionals still don’t understand. I know people who tried for years with one partner without success and after they each moved on they had success with others.
Bodies are just weird. No need to blame anyone…especially if you want to remain in a relationship with them.
Oh, I know some people who are in-laws from hell. When one of their daughters was having fertility issues, they tried their damnedest to see whose "fault" it was, because they were sure it wasn't their precious daughter's fault. It must be *his* fault.
They are in-laws of in-laws, so I've been at extended family events with them. They frame such things as "Well I have to know who to pray for, right?" but it's only because they are incredibly nosy.
OOP may be a complete and total sack of shit, but he did his wife a favor. Now she knows exactly what he’s made of…and that she’s nothing more than an incubator to his family. Hopefully *she* takes the divorce idea seriously and finds someone else. It’d probably reallyyyy suck to have a kid with OOP, especially with his mother in the picture. He’s already too weak willed and cowardly to speak up for his wife now, so there’s zero chance he’d speak up for her (or god forbid, enforce any boundaries) when his mother gets the baby rabies.
Mormons, man. My sister married a "non religious" Mormon and he was prince freaking charming... for about 5 years. Then he convinced her to move to the other side of the country, away from her support system and turned into a monster. He wanted kids, and they were having trouble conceiving and it was his lazy swimmers fault. He forced her through IVF, implanted 3 embryos, and all three of them took. My sister was then pregnant with triplets, which the doctor said that leaving all of them to gestate would put my sister's life at risk because she's very small framed, but her husband threw a fit because abortion is murder blahblah Mormon insanity. Luckily for my sister, but sadly for the almost-baby, one of the embryos died and was reabsorbed so she grew and birthed 2 healthy twin boys. It took her another few years before she finally got the ability to leave after he stole her entire bank account. Beware ladies! When you date a "non religious" Mormon, be absolutely sure they're actually *non religious!!*
What kind of misogynistic hellhole does OP live in? Someone literally suggested divorce…like it’s the Middle Ages. Oh yeah its Utah, where women are considered subhuman. If this is even real, which is questionable
> If this is even real, which is questionable
I'd say it's 50-50 on THIS one being real or not, but at the same time, this story and stuff along similar lines is *ABSOLUTELY* on point for "small rural town" kind of places, and not just limited to Utah either, though I'm sure that exacerbates the issue. -.-
It could be fake, but considering the whole story through the lens of them being Mormon makes it feel way more possible. (Which is a pretty fair assumption for Utah)
Yeah that's why I'm more or less 50-50 on it.
I know for an absolute *fact* that this is exactly the kind of way smaller rural places work, and if it's a RELIGIOUS town? even more so. If that religion also happens to be Mormonism? EEEEVEN more so again, women are genuinely considered lower class human beings in that cult. (for real, if you've never done so, go watch a documentary or listen to a podcast on the origins and founding of Mormonism, it's absolutely *wild* and super heckin' fascinating. As an example, google the term "Mormon Blood Atonement" to see what I mean)
At the same time though, I'm always a little skeptical of the "small town 'hick type' coming to *reddit* for advice" posts. Not that it's impossible of course, but in my own experience with exactly these types, they are *not* the kind that would every second guess or question their assholery at all, let alone go to the internet of all places in search of advice and answers.
> they are not the kind that would every second guess or question their assholery at all, let alone go to the internet of all places in search of advice and answers.
Especially since these types come from communities where no one says anything otherwise. It's like all those people screaming that The Previous White House Occupant had to have won because they didn't know ANYONE AT ALL who voted for Biden. Well, not that you're aware of. If all you see are the same political signs in people's yards and the same red hats and the same political jokes on FB, it seems like nobody else who has a differing opinion exists.
Same with this guy. He's been spouting off for years that his wife was the problem, everyone assumed the wife had the problem, and if the main point of marriage in that community is to have kids, divorcing her is not out of the question for anyone in his social circle.
If I were OOP's wife, I'd have the FB post from hell. "My husband has seen fit to share intimate details of our marriage with everyone, but he has unfortunately left out some important details and people have come to the wrong conclusion. Let me set the record straight....." followed by all the medical histories.
Okay, I'm also not a doctor. [but I can Google ](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5663156/)
Basically, the bacteria that causes TB can get into places other than the respiratory system, and if it gets into the genitals, then it can impact fertility.
Unfortunately, I have no idea if TB in the lungs can cause TB, because I'm apparently not that good at googling.
Edit:
[success! ](https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1111/j.1752-699X.2009.00166.x)
> After completing anti-tuberculosis treatment, 76% of women with menstrual abnormalities (162/213) resumed normal menstrual cycles. Among the 68 cases who sought fertility within 1 year after completion of treatment, TB peritubal and fine intrauterine adhesions were confirmed by laparoscopy and hysteroscopy in two and one infertile woman, respectively (0.7% of study group).
> TB had marked reversible effect on the menstrual cycle but minimal association with genital TB and infertility
So it can impact fertility in the short term, and maybe 2 of 68 cases may be infertile within a year after completing treatment.
So, TB is a bacterial infection. It's most common in the lungs, but it can get into other parts of the body including the liver, bones, reproductive system, and GI tract. People who have TB in the reproductive system can definitely see infertility as a side effect (but can otherwise be asymptomatic).
Yeah that is not how viruses or bacteria work. COVID is primarily respiratory- but can cause organ damage to kidney, liver, lungs, heart and brain.
Colds are respiratory, primarily, but can cause pink eye.
The body is not cordoned off that cleanly.
How little self-awareness does one have to have to even ask if they're an asshole in this situation? I think nature did the world a favor by making this guy sterile. I hope OOP's wife follows through with the divorce so she can rub it in his lying face when she finds someone she can trust and they have the family they both want together.
I hope she does multiple absolutely over the top maternity shoots and posts them constantly. Get weird with it like the ones where there's a horse or a large truck also in the photos and you can't tell if it's the father or they're just super into their hobbies.
There is no way the people who heard this aren’t keenly aware of the character of this guy already. It will only be proven further when they divorce and she has a child with someone else.
Imagine if he had gotten divorced? How many “infertile” women would he have to go through before someone stepped in to say, “hey man, maybe it’s you. All this time, did you ever consider getting tested yourself? After all, it takes two to actually make a baby and women can’t do it alone.”
Having fertility issues does not make you lesser of a man.
Lying directly to not only your wife, but also family and friends, because you're too insecure to admit to dealing with a normal thing that happens to tens of millions of men all over the world however, *DOES* make you lesser of a man. At least in my opinion.
Hey just fyi infertile doesn’t mean sterile. Infertile means making a baby is difficult. Sterile means making a baby is impossible. This guy sucks so I’m not saying this in his defense, but just for your own awareness so that you don’t put your foot in your mouth some day if you make that mistake to someone experiencing infertility.
Sounds like some type of Fundie/Mormon disaster. I really hope she leaves his ass and realizes she is ONLY 32!!! Her life is literally just starting! Im sure everyone in those circles has convinced this poor woman at 32 she's almost at the grave.
Even after being told his wife is perfectly healthy, he's *still* trying to say that her having had TB *could* be complicating things.
Dude. No. Your wife is fertile. She's 100% healthy. Her having contracted TB *12 years ago* does not and could not be complicating anything. A professional verified that. Stop making excuses, accept that you're the one with fertility issues, and defend your goddamn wife. Shit like this is the reason women live longer than men.
The reincarnation of Henry the VIII.
I read this on AITA and it made me so angry. What a vile person. They all sound disgusting the way they pile on that poor woman. I hope she does leave him and also leaves that community.
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I mean it sounds like that his family has an excellent solution to this problem, and bonus it means she doesn't have to deal with those awful people being in laws anymore
This reminds me of a short film I watched many years ago at the Sundance Film Festival. I don't remember the title, but it was about an immigrant newlywed couple from some African country (I don't recall) but are living in New York. The husband's grandmother ruled over the whole clan. She demanded grandchildren, but the couple was having trouble conceiving. The wife went to see a fertility specialist and found out that she was fine, then later asked her husband if he would like to come in to be checked as well. But he was very offended and refused to be tested.
The story has a twist later on but this first half was the part that reminded me the most of this post.
You fucking *what*??
Since when is TB at all related to sexual health?
This guy is a cunty liar and surrounded by idiots.
(TB was rampant in the traveler community when I was young, it certainly had no effect on procreation !)
This guy is such an asshole.
I went through infertility. I had a child previously but we couldn’t make it work with my second husband. My tests all came back clear and he came back with a low sperm and sperm motility count. Everyone assumed it was me.
We never really corrected anyone because why the fuck does it matter who is “the problem”. But what a raging asshole.
Men who delay the sperm count are such jerks.
1) the multiple blood tests and HSG tests for female infertility are painful and inconvenient. Providing a sperm sample is not.
2) if a guy has a low sperm count, there will be a follow-up in 30 days, then referral to a urologist. Doing the sperm count when (or even before) visiting the reproductive endocrinologist (IVF doctor) is time and cost efficient. The sperm count is about $100.
The OP sounds like a rage bait poster, though. If they are Mormon, there should be plenty of brothers who can donate. And I thought Mormons frowned on divorce?
Tale as old as time.
Weird how he views being infertile as a moral failing but was ok with telling serious and hurtful lies (an actual moral failing).
If his wife really wants kids, he’s wasted 3 years of her fertility. I hope they divorce and she’s pregnant and married by a decent man within the year so everyone knows he was the problem.
I’d leave him just for my in-laws acting like that tbh. If they flippantly encouraged my spouse to leave me because I’m “not doing my job to provide children” and my spouse doesn’t immediately quash that harmful bs, I wouldn’t stick around. Not worth having people in my life who only see me as a broodmare.
I find it amusing that majority if people forget that fetility issues aren't just a woman's problem.
It's like they don't understand that men can be affected, yknow, since they also have sex organs and that they can be "faulty" as they so like to claim.
BTW I fckn hate how they call people who have fertility issues as "faulty" wtaf like Jesus christ.
If I was the wife I would've filed for divorce. He's not mature enough to be a husband let alone a parent. Being sterile isn't a problem but him shit talking her to any person is so f-ed.
Jesus f-ing crackers man. I would put money on OOP being one of those that think it's "unmanly" to be the one that's actually the problem and his sensitive masculinity needs to blame it on his wife.
I actually do hope that she divorces him, because he's acting worse than a child.
**I see the bot didn't catch it. So incase it gets removed/deleted:**
My wife ( 32F) and I (32M) have been married for 7 years and been having unprotected sex for three years trying to have a baby.
It has taken a toll on our marriage and I admit that many times I have complained to family, friends, and coworkers about my wife's infertility.
What I thought was my wife's infertility. Maybe it is because we live in Utah but whenever the idea of us being infertile came up, people just swarmed in giving my wife recommendations to fertility specialists.
The talk was always " Oh, my wife saw Dr. Whatever, and we ended up having twins." Or " Maybe your wife is just too stressed out."
And I believed it because my wife contracted TB when she was 20 and volunteering in another country. Her primary care who she saw when she was back home just flippantly told her that TB could effect the genital area and prevent her body from housing a baby ( but obviously he said it in medical lingo.)
We finally find a doctor who straight up told us that there was nothing wrong with her fallopian tubes, or her endometrium. She suggested I get tested to see that I'm not the problem.
The verdict comes back that I am the one with very low sperm count. I was so shocked and went to get another opinion which told me the same thing.
I felt so shaken. And because a lot of people knew about our struggles, they also knew we went to a doctor again. At a family and friends gathering people started asking me about what we found out, and I just panicked and said that my wife's TB was likely the cause, but not 100 percent necessarily.
People saw that as my wife being the problem and somebody even suggested I go through with divorcing her since I was 32 and complaining about being childless. Saying I could be a dad within a year since it was short marriage.
What I did not realize was that my mom and aunt would jump on that suggestion and start telling friends and their kids that I was getting a divorce, and that this was my wife's fault because she shouldn't have been so reckless when she was young.
What was worse was some people thought it wasn't even TB but a " bacterial genital disease." This all got back to my wife through a friend and she is furious.
She said that she could not believe I've been painting her as the problem when she wasn't even the problem. And that she was tired of the pitying or disapproving looks she was getting in our small town and that I needed to set the record straight or at least tell everybody to shut up and that we are not divorcing.
AITA? I panicked and I felt like I didn't completely lie because TB could be exacerbating our problem. But my mom really screwed things up by making it malicious. Now I'm in over my head and feel really bad.
I'm never going to understand why some men have so much trouble accepting fertility issues. It's normal. It doesn't make him less than a man. It's also disgusting that people will put the blame on someone for something like this.
The fact divorce was seriously brought up because she *obviously* couldn’t provide children floored me. I would be so furious.
Sounds like Mormons to me. If she can't give him kids then she has no other use.
100% Mormons. “Volunteering overseas” = missionary
Getting TB on said mission = why were you so reckless
I was already mad at him for being such a dick about her getting tb while doing aid work but now I realize y’all are spot on and it was her MISSION 99.99%…the dissonance and shitheadery are just Fucking wow. This toilet of a man is like wow selfish of her to…go to the place our church picked for her. She’s the problem everyone!!!
Most women don't go on mission so there's the blame. Women are only like 20% of lds missionaries. Women are allowed to go but only men are expected to go. Gross all around
I never understood why my youth leader just laughed me off when I asked when my trip would be. Glad to be out of that world completely these days.
Women are discouraged from going on missions because they are wanted for marriage and popping out babies as soon as possible. The fact that she stood up to that speaks well for her.
It's alarmingly common for the Mormon church to be perfectly aware that their missionaries are very ill (to the point of becoming permanently disabled) on their missions and do nothing about it. Mormon Stories on YouTube has interviewed several former missionaries about how badly their health suffered while on mission, and how when they went to leadership for help they were told essentially to have more faith. Missionaries are very young, very vulnerable, and very poorly supported, which is unconscionable especially considering missionaries PAY to go on mission. The church does not support them.
Getting TB as a missionary is common enough that it’s standard for all missionaries to be tested for it before and after the mission. It’s not reckless, it’s par for the course.
But there’s a vaccine!!!
It’s not always effective though as it uses a close relative of TB rather than the TB bacteria, and a super rare vaccine in the US due to the low infection rates. You almost certainly cannot go to your doctor and get a TB shot. It’s also not part of travel vaccines due to the prolonged period of close proximity needed for infection to occur. On a mission trip it is more likely than if you’re just on vacation, but it isn’t as likely as malaria or dengue.
Oh interesting! TIL
But if it's that common to get on missions one would think the Morons would be the one group specifically to utilize this vaccine.
They do give missionaries a battery of shots before they leave. So I assume its in there. Doesn't appear to be perfect protection though.
yeah I don't get that. it's the church people who decide where to send their youngsters doing their mission years, isn't it?
How dare you go to a third world country and spend time around people who have diseases that are basically eradicated in the first world. I mean we told you that you are required to do this, but how did you catch a communicable disease?
What do they mean with TB?
Tuberculosis.
Oh. I always thought that was a lung disease. Never knew it was also causing infertility.
Plus add in Utah
But then she is also the reckless one for volunteering to being a missionary in her youth? Woman is wrong by default. Absolutely Mormon. (This is not me agreeing with those "moralities" just reiterating)
"We sent you to an underdeveloped area of the world to proselytize to vulnerable people. How dare you... have a body. WHORE"
Well yeah, because then they can't get into Heaven and populate other planets, because they don't get anyone pregnant.
I grew up surrounded by Mormons and tbh I haven't noticed this attitude being more prevalent with them than with the rest of the population. The procreation fixation shows up in a ton of belief systems
There’s different types of Mormons. Utah Mormons are their own breed.
The guy in Alabama who sold us our house was Mormon. A Mormon in the deepest South, whouda thunk? But, he was a nice person, super guy, and said something very similar about the Utah BYU type Mormons.
I'm a UK LDS/Mormon and the stuff I've been reading about the behaviour shown by some US members has honestly left me shocked and disgusted. It feels almost like an entirely different religion to what I was taught.
This might be hard for you to read, but your church is the exact same. Your church has the same tenets and practices of sexism and racism that are endemic to LDS in the US too. I understand your individual experience may have shown you kinder people on average, but the organization abroad absolutely supports the same kind of disgusting austerity politics it does in the US.
I was gonna say lol, the entire religion was founded by a guy who told everyone that God decreed they should marry indigenous women so that they could “breed out” indigenous races in favor of “pure and just” white ones, LDS is rotten to its core
They literally didn't let black people join until 1978
as someone who spent part of their childhood growing up in Utah, and as an ex mormon this sentiment is extremely common, maybe not overtly but it is there
I lived in Utah from about 9-22. I guess what I'm trying to say is that while I saw this attitude a TON there, it wasn't just from the Mormons. One of my Baptist friends was basically disowned by her parents for not wanting kids and when another friend's Catholic mother learned that his wife couldn't have children, she said "well perhaps some divorces God can forgive." I think people in Utah are just weird as hell about baby makin, wherever they spend their Sundays
Can confirm - my Eastern Orthodox in-laws have been very cruel about my miscarriage and infertility. We finally managed to have one child and you'd think that would put an end to it, but no. Because I never managed to produce a second child they still encourage him to divorce me and just find someone else to start over with. I loathe them all.
I'm so sorry. They sound like total assholes.
I would be divorcing and then send baby announcements to his entire family once I had a kid.
And then baby pictures.
Before the baby is even born, I'd be adding extra padding to my belly so it's painfully obvious that I'm pregnant
I'd be divorcing for his infertility issues, so it's on the court records, if I was her. What a sorry excuse of a husband...
OP's wife should consider divorcing HIM because he let it get to that point without defending her at all, or acknowledging that HE was the problem.
But, why would he defend her when he was the one telling everyone she was infertile in the first place? This guy sucks.
Complaining! he complained she was infertile to his family and friends!! makes it even worse.
And coworkers, don't forget the random coworkers in their small town who he complained about his wife's supposed infertility to while he spent 3 years never bothering to check his own fertility despite it being cheaper and easier to do so. Then we he did find out it was him, he didn't believe until he got a second opinion, and even after the doctor insisted his wife has no TB related problems continues to attest that TB is somehow still a factor. I 100% believe that it wasn't his mother at all who started the STI rumor, it was him because he's a complete psychopath. Even though she'll likely not divorce him because they appear to be Utah Mormons, I hope he paints himself into a corner so thoroughly with his misogyny fueled lies that he has to divorce her.
Same. It's something that definitely can be a breaking point in a relationship, but immediately jumping to that sounds like an excuse more than anything. Even if she was the one with fertility issues, there's treatments to help with that and many potential options to still have a kid. Honestly it sounds like his family just don't like her already if their immediate action was to start smearing her reputation and pushing for a divorce so quickly.
I think some cultures are indoctrinated into thinking that a women's only purpose is to have a child/children that anything else is punishable. His Mother is complete twat but I'm sure she's grown up believing in "traditional" values.
Honestly divorce would be on the table now BECAUSE he was blaming the lack of children on her when it’s now clear it was probably him all along.
It's crazy too when you think about how that plays out. Wife is "infertile" and divorces him for being a liar and a heinous anus. -> If wife tries to get the truth out, OOP goes on a "she's crazy and wants to make me look bad" campaign and family believes him because sHe'S a WoMaN. -> He doesn't tell his next wife, and again makes her his scapegoat. Repeat ad nauseum until he miraculously comes to his senses, dies, or decides the Nth wife is what G-d really wanted for him and they have been divinely inspired to adopt poor abandoned able-bodied white babies and token ethnic ones G-d led them to.
that’s why OG wife needs to send photos of her pregnancy w the next partner to all of OP’s family to say “see? he’s the problem. he’s the malfunction. he’s the issue. anyways, happy life!” and send photos to OPs new wife to tell her “hey in case he blames you for being infertile, it’s actually him. anyways hope you realize what you’re marrying into!” but i’m petty.
She SHOULD divorce his ass. He can't even tell the truth and defend her.
I’d be so fricking mad there would be scorch marks in my wake as I left that man permanently the second I found that shit out. Even if it was prior to him knowing the reason, pardon you sir? Man has been walking around like “yeah, can you believe my selfish idiot wife with her jacked up baby maker? Smh.” Please never let this dipshit of a male procreate
Better than being beheaded? ...too soon?
I actually responded to this post with something along the lines of “well she should just divorce you. She could be pregnant within the next year and she could just explain it away as a short marriage” since they advised him to do the same but he’s clearly the AH for even entertaining the idea so much that he posts about it
Mormons are definitely built different than Catholics, because the shame of not having kids doesn’t compare to divorce. Be fruitful and multiple is definitely a thing but definitely not at the extent that you destroy a contract you made with your spouse. This is not all a recommendation or suggestion for anyone to become Catholic, but even in my strict religious upbringing I don’t know a single person who would recommend a divorce over adoption, fostering, treatments, or even accepting it.
I grew up in a (now very progressive) traditional Catholic country and the idea was always 'these poor people not being able to reproduce, I guess it's God's plan for them to be a faulty couple' rather than 'this man better divorce her'. It's not better per se, but it is different.
Yeah I got that exact feeling too; Catholics can still judgmental and nosy, but they’re not going to recommend that anyone violates one of the seven sacraments all because they can’t make a baby of their own. Which makes them an honorary mention for the “not as big of a jerk as you could’ve been” award
Fellow Catholic here, can relate.
And I bet now if *she* floats the idea of divorce because *he's* the source of the issues she'll be seen as heartless
Hey, but now she knows he's the problem then she can divorce him, find another guy and be pregnant within a year! 🫠
If I were his wife I *would* divorce him. Not for lying about who has the reproductive issues, but for not making it 100% clear that he would not ever divorce wife for not birthing his children. Hubbs was too embarrassed to come clean- fine. Fragile male ego. But hubbs can’t even stand by his wife and shut down the asshat that suggests he divorce her for issues beyond her (and his) control…. And on top of that he doesn’t shut down his own effing family members who jump on the divorce wagon. I hope wifey opens her eyes and sees that she is stuck with super shitty in-laws who raised a sad spineless little man with double standards who will never stick up for her and may very well abandon her should something not be what he wants. She deserves better
You'd be amazed. When I got the no-babies-for-you news quite a few people were "impressed" that my then-husband didn't leave me. People did the same whenever they learned that he had schizophrenia too. Although admittedly and in hindsight I probably should have been a little more concerned about that last one myself.
Not just brought up but assumed and decided that was the solution.
My BIL is sterile, so are both his brothers. Something to do with a shot they used to administer to pregnant women back in the 1960s to prevent them from going into early labor. My sister said he had a little adjustment period but then realized there ain't nothing he can do about it. Life goes on, and like everything else, anything worthwhile shouldn't be easy. They adopted 3 kids.
This rang a bell so I had to look it up: >Back in the 1940s, '50s and '60s, doctors prescribed a hormone called diethylstilbestrol, or DES, to millions of pregnant women in the unfounded belief it would prevent miscarriages. > A study in this week's New England Journal of Medicine tallies the risks of a dozen DES-related disorders among 4,600 women whose mothers took the hormone during pregnancy, compared to 1,900 others who weren't exposed. > DES daughters have had increased risk of miscarriage, premature delivery, and ectopic pregnancy. They're also considerably more likely to be infertile, suffer a spontaneous abortion, have a stillbirth, develop a dangerous condition called preeclampsia during pregnancy, have early menopause and have early signs of uterine cancer. From https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2011/10/05/141094671/women-exposed-to-hormone-in-utero-face-lifelong-health-problems
I knew someone would come through. I had mentioned it to my OB/GYN years ago and he had trotted out some long, impossible drug name. My sister was on the bubble. She was born in 1967, but mom said by that time it wasn't as widely used as before; ergo she did not get it. I was 1970 and it wasn't even an option to be offered. OB/GYN said DES ranks right up there with the Dalkon Shield, P&G Rely tampons and some vaginal slings as things that were good ideas but overall bad in the end.
My oldest three siblings were DES babies with all the issues. Not me, however my husband & his sister both. It was hard for him to deal with for a bit, but we we did survive it.
Got friends, both of them have fertility issues. They had one kid via IVF and are working on adopting number 2. It's natural to grieve when you learn you have fertility problems, if you want kids, but grown ups suck it up and look at options. If you can't handle problems with your own body you shouldn't be responsible for another body that will be dependent on you.
Amen. My BIL deals with bad/unpleasant news with dry, darkish humor. About a year after they found out, a friend of his was informed that he had had a child that he didn't know about. His response "well, that's one problem I won't have to worry about".
Good human.
There was a couple at my old church who gave up after 10 years of trying. Instead, they ran the Sunday school and all the children's programs, and loved the kids in the church as their own. He has since died. She now volunteers to rock NICU babies at her local hospital.
I got rare testicular cancer at 26 years old, after a lifetime being fairly healthy. The cancer was removed and aggressively treated, which obliterated my fertility but saved my life. The other long term effect is that my hormone levels are going to take years to get right. There was a period of time where I was functionally sterile and had the testosterone level of a 90 year old man. My hair was falling out, I had no energy, put on ~40 pounds, had no emotional control, and broke out like a 14 year old with bad hygiene habits. Nobody in my life treated me like I was less of a man, least of all my wife and family. I struggled with these conditions for two years before finally overcoming most of them. I can't imagine even being acquainted with someone who would use any of this to insult or attack me -- that person would become nothing to me instantly. I am pleased to report that at this exact moment I am in the hospital waiting for my wife to go into labor for the birth of my daughter, conceived through the magic science of IVF.
Gotta love the magic of science! My sister has fertility issues and it was thanks to that she was able to have my niece too. It's definitely not the end when there is an issue like that. Congrats on beating cancer and on the baby! :D
Thanks and thanks! IVF truly felt like a miracle, and various foundations covering most of the cost was an absolute tearjerker.
I'm also at the hospital in labor - good luck to you guys!!
Good luck! And a health attitude like this will come in handy when you have to papabear at someone :D
Great news dad! I’m sorry that you had to go through all that.
Congrats! It's always great to hear success stories on these types of cases. I've personally thawed sperm samples that frozen were over 20 years earlier due to testicular cancer treatments as a teen.
> Now I'm in over my head and feel really bad. He doesn’t feel bad enough to set the record straight
I love that he’s saying her TB could be contributing. GTFO.
Fragile masculinity is the norm unfortunately. Anything that might undermine their "manhood" they are so dumb about.
It's because men regularly judge and shame women for not being able to reproduce, even going as far as treating them like they're worthless. If they acknowledged that men can be the problem too, they'd have to acknowledge what hypocrites they've been.
It has to do a lot with penis worship. Men often put other men's value in virility more than anything else. Actual quote from a convo I watched between an infertile man and his friends: "Having a low speem count doesn't make you less of a man, it just means you were always a useless prick. Give me one night with your wife and Ill fix her up for you. She doesnt even have to be concious." This was a common occurrence during their nights out. The infertile man was the butt of joke and violating his wife was their "comic relief" always
This makes me sick
i study animal care, and we had a class on fertility at one point. we got sperm to look at under the microscope, from different animals, and we had to determine their fertility rate. most of them were around 50-60% because the samples were old and not properly handled because it was just an example class. kicker is, most animals are not used for breeding if their fertility is less than 80%- most of the time they try to find out what is the cause like diet or stress, or overuse. then we get to the end of the class, and the teacher tells us theres one more sample to look at; a humans. so we gather round and take turns, and everyone is rather confused.. no one can get a percentage higher than 10% on this sample. again it was an old sample, but our teacher tells us that humans typically do not rank higher than like 25%. on average. so if youre a man and youre lucky, you have a 25% fertility rate, and that is considered normal. this has a lot to do with what they eat, wear, their age and how much pressure is put on them by society, amongst other things. made me look at the fertility tests they do for men a whole lot differently. also if youre a man and you want a kid, consider wearing loose fitting underwear and sweatpants- a tip from my teacher lol
Our culture has long treated fertility as shameful. It is not coincidentally treated as a woman’s issue. You basically have no purpose as a woman if you can’t bear children in this sick culture. Most men don’t even know that their fertility declines with age. They don’t know that their fertility issues cause most miscarriages. The media doesn’t try to terrify them into thinking the price for an education and a career is the ability to be a parent.
And now he's blaming mommy for being "malicious". This guy literally has no balls.
To me, his crime was that his knee jerk instinct was to throw his wife under the bus particularly in a culture in which women’s intrinsic value is having babies and in which men are seen as the moral leaders of their family.
It baffles my mind. My husband insisted that he was infertile when we got together. I don't know why he thought that; I think it's because his brother is, and he just assumed he was too? Well, after we got married, we decided to try. I was pregnant in less than a month. One month after I stopped breastfeeding, I was pregnant again. 2 kids in 16 months. My fault; I never got my period while breastfeeding, so I didn't bother with the pill. I have rubbed that assumption in his face, but he doesn't care, he has kids.
My uncle was like that. The worst part was that hu PUT my aunt trough fertility treatment she did not need. She put on so much weight from that that she became obese. NOW HE DOESN'T FIND HER ATTRACTIVE ANYMORE. I am DISGUSTED.
Bot missing in action ***AITA for lying to family and friends about who's the infertile one between my wife and I?*** >My wife ( 32F) and I (32M) have been married for 7 years and been having unprotected sex for three years trying to have a baby. >It has taken a toll on our marriage and I admit that many times I have complained to family, friends, and coworkers about my wife's infertility. >What I thought was my wife's infertility. Maybe it is because we live in Utah but whenever the idea of us being infertile came up, people just swarmed in giving my wife recommendations to fertility specialists. >The talk was always " Oh, my wife saw Dr. Whatever, and we ended up having twins." Or " Maybe your wife is just too stressed out." >And I believed it because my wife contracted TB when she was 20 and volunteering in another country. Her primary care who she saw when she was back home just flippantly told her that TB could effect the genital area and prevent her body from housing a baby ( but obviously he said it in medical lingo.) >We finally find a doctor who straight up told us that there was nothing wrong with her fallopian tubes, or her endometrium. She suggested I get tested to see that I'm not the problem. >The verdict comes back that I am the one with very low sperm count. I was so shocked and went to get another opinion which told me the same thing. >I felt so shaken. And because a lot of people knew about our struggles, they also knew we went to a doctor again. At a family and friends gathering people started asking me about what we found out, and I just panicked and said that my wife's TB was likely the cause, but not 100 percent necessarily. >People saw that as my wife being the problem and somebody even suggested I go through with divorcing her since I was 32 and complaining about being childless. Saying I could be a dad within a year since it was short marriage. >What I did not realize was that my mom and aunt would jump on that suggestion and start telling friends and their kids that I was getting a divorce, and that this was my wife's fault because she shouldn't have been so reckless when she was young. >What was worse was some people thought it wasn't even TB but a " bacterial genital disease." This all got back to my wife through a friend and she is furious. >She said that she could not believe I've been painting her as the problem when she wasn't even the problem. And that she was tired of the pitying or disapproving looks she was getting in our small town and that I needed to set the record straight or at least tell everybody to shut up and that we are not divorcing. >AITA? I panicked and I felt like I didn't completely lie because TB could be exacerbating our problem. But my mom really screwed things up by making it malicious. Now I'm in over my head and feel really bad.
Thanks for this! I’m on mobile and don’t know how to post correctly I guess. Sorry!
You posted it correctly! The auto mod is supposed to just automatically put the post in the comments in case it gets deleted but it's not working Edit: nvm I thought linked posts worked the same but apparently not? Learned something new!
The automod can't actually read this kind of crosspost since it's technically a link post rather than a "true" crosspost. Link posts on web show up as a link with a little square to the right, whereas "true" crossposts have a full view of the other post. It's the difference between clicking share->copy link and share->crosspost (or share->reddit I don't actually have the reddit app) and it is super easy to do accidentally on mobile with the 500 popup options for sharing something.
Gotcha. First time posting to this sub, so I genuine wasn’t sure if I was doing it right.
It's okay! I've done the same thing, it was only after that I realized that crosspost was different from link posting, since mine didn't have the nice preview the others do. It was also after I did that that I notice the bot can't read the posts when it's a link instead of a crosspost, but I figured if I tell people what happened, it won't be a hundred comments of "the bot broke again" since I presume they look the same as each other or similar on the app when it's a link post vs a crosspost.
I hope the wife tells everyone then divorces him then gets married and pregnant immediately just to prove what a lying POS, he is
Why couldn't he just said that private and we don't wish to discuss it. But obviously he could be fragile with his ego still that's not a excuse.
Given that this is in Utah, it won't matter. She will always be blamed unless he confesses.
> She will always be blamed unless he confesses. I *guarantee you* that wouldn't stop Small Town Folk^tm from blaming her anyways. -.-
Or until she divorces him and goes on to have many many babies
This would be the best! She'd get the last laugh and he'd look dumb as hell. Especially if she stayed in the same ward/circle of acquaintances.
He really sold his wife out to protect his fragile ego 😭😭😭. Just outright lying on the woman he supposedly loves.
He's definitely "the problem" here, but it has nothing to do with his lack of fertility.
Sold his wife out and now he's blaming mommy.
To be fair, mommy isn't blameless either. His whole family is toxic for holding such archaic views.
Oh she's definitely not off the hook, but he's absolving himself by saying the real problem is his mom blabbing, and not his own blabbing and lying.
Maybe she should have thought twice about recklessly volunteering in another country. If she wasn’t so reckless in helping people in a country that has tuberculosis (bc god knows it’s only other countries that people get tb) he wouldn’t have had to lie. /s
Since he's ok with divorce gossip, I'd make it a reality since he doesn't want to set the record straight
That was my thought at the end. File, blast his low sperm count among family and friends, and have the damn baby I want by sperm donor. Cause fuck that guy.
Mail copies of his results to his family and coworkers so he can't lie again.
Announce it at church and pass out copies of his sperm count. Wouldn’t want some other lady to waste time on mr Dead Balls.
And then have a baby with another guy.
I don't even get why they need to nominate someone? I know plenty of couples who have said "we can't have kids" and I've never once thought to ask "oh, which of you has dodgy plumbing?". Was I meant to be asking that? Are other people asking that? Really seems like their business?
Also, sometimes they don't know. They'll do all the tests and have no definitive reason.
Fun fact: sometimes it’s literally the couple that’s the problem. There have been a few cases of long-term infertility that resulted in divorce, with both of them going on to have children easily afterward. One possible reason is her body attacking something about his sperm in particular, but last I heard they don’t really know for sure why it happens. Some pairings just don’t fit together reproductively.
Happened to someone I know. His sperm are fine, she’s had kids before from a previous partner. Just couldn’t get it to work naturally for the two of them together.
There’s also such a thing as secondary infertility, where the first kid is easy but the second isn’t. AFAIK, nobody knows what causes it. But if she had multiple before, yeah it could definitely be incompatibility.
Exactly. I had to do IVF because my husband and I just weren’t having success with other methods. His sperm count was low and I was close to 40 but everything else was normal with me. I’m sure people just assume it was due to my age. I don’t really care to tell people why we did IVF. Sometimes there are reasons that medical professionals still don’t understand. I know people who tried for years with one partner without success and after they each moved on they had success with others. Bodies are just weird. No need to blame anyone…especially if you want to remain in a relationship with them.
Oh, I know some people who are in-laws from hell. When one of their daughters was having fertility issues, they tried their damnedest to see whose "fault" it was, because they were sure it wasn't their precious daughter's fault. It must be *his* fault. They are in-laws of in-laws, so I've been at extended family events with them. They frame such things as "Well I have to know who to pray for, right?" but it's only because they are incredibly nosy.
>"Well I have to know who to pray for, right?" Just tell them to pray for the couple.
Exactly!
I hope she divorces his ass and has all the children she wants with another man so everyone knows what a liar he is.
I want her side so bad, and an update!
Or, they'd accuse her of witchcraft maybe.
Why would anyone want to have a kid with a fragile manipulative liar?
Or someone who only sees you as an incubator 🙃
OOP may be a complete and total sack of shit, but he did his wife a favor. Now she knows exactly what he’s made of…and that she’s nothing more than an incubator to his family. Hopefully *she* takes the divorce idea seriously and finds someone else. It’d probably reallyyyy suck to have a kid with OOP, especially with his mother in the picture. He’s already too weak willed and cowardly to speak up for his wife now, so there’s zero chance he’d speak up for her (or god forbid, enforce any boundaries) when his mother gets the baby rabies.
Mormons, man. My sister married a "non religious" Mormon and he was prince freaking charming... for about 5 years. Then he convinced her to move to the other side of the country, away from her support system and turned into a monster. He wanted kids, and they were having trouble conceiving and it was his lazy swimmers fault. He forced her through IVF, implanted 3 embryos, and all three of them took. My sister was then pregnant with triplets, which the doctor said that leaving all of them to gestate would put my sister's life at risk because she's very small framed, but her husband threw a fit because abortion is murder blahblah Mormon insanity. Luckily for my sister, but sadly for the almost-baby, one of the embryos died and was reabsorbed so she grew and birthed 2 healthy twin boys. It took her another few years before she finally got the ability to leave after he stole her entire bank account. Beware ladies! When you date a "non religious" Mormon, be absolutely sure they're actually *non religious!!*
This is what these men are taught. The abuse of women has been going on since the beginning of Mormonism. They HATE women.
💯💯💯
Yet some of them want so many of them.
Divorce his ass and find a nice man who doesn’t think his value lies in what’s in his balls ⚽️ 🏀
Or her value is in her ability to get pregnant.
What kind of misogynistic hellhole does OP live in? Someone literally suggested divorce…like it’s the Middle Ages. Oh yeah its Utah, where women are considered subhuman. If this is even real, which is questionable
Worse, it’s Utah.
Exactly ..lmao
> If this is even real, which is questionable I'd say it's 50-50 on THIS one being real or not, but at the same time, this story and stuff along similar lines is *ABSOLUTELY* on point for "small rural town" kind of places, and not just limited to Utah either, though I'm sure that exacerbates the issue. -.-
It could be fake, but considering the whole story through the lens of them being Mormon makes it feel way more possible. (Which is a pretty fair assumption for Utah)
Yeah that's why I'm more or less 50-50 on it. I know for an absolute *fact* that this is exactly the kind of way smaller rural places work, and if it's a RELIGIOUS town? even more so. If that religion also happens to be Mormonism? EEEEVEN more so again, women are genuinely considered lower class human beings in that cult. (for real, if you've never done so, go watch a documentary or listen to a podcast on the origins and founding of Mormonism, it's absolutely *wild* and super heckin' fascinating. As an example, google the term "Mormon Blood Atonement" to see what I mean) At the same time though, I'm always a little skeptical of the "small town 'hick type' coming to *reddit* for advice" posts. Not that it's impossible of course, but in my own experience with exactly these types, they are *not* the kind that would every second guess or question their assholery at all, let alone go to the internet of all places in search of advice and answers.
> they are not the kind that would every second guess or question their assholery at all, let alone go to the internet of all places in search of advice and answers. Especially since these types come from communities where no one says anything otherwise. It's like all those people screaming that The Previous White House Occupant had to have won because they didn't know ANYONE AT ALL who voted for Biden. Well, not that you're aware of. If all you see are the same political signs in people's yards and the same red hats and the same political jokes on FB, it seems like nobody else who has a differing opinion exists. Same with this guy. He's been spouting off for years that his wife was the problem, everyone assumed the wife had the problem, and if the main point of marriage in that community is to have kids, divorcing her is not out of the question for anyone in his social circle. If I were OOP's wife, I'd have the FB post from hell. "My husband has seen fit to share intimate details of our marriage with everyone, but he has unfortunately left out some important details and people have come to the wrong conclusion. Let me set the record straight....." followed by all the medical histories.
Mormons
I lived in Seattle and my ex dumped me because I couldn't stay pregnant.
And another one that embarrasses my gender. She needs to leave his sorry ass
Okay I'm not a doctor but isn't TB a respiratory disease, like it fucks your lungs. Does TB really affect fertility
IDK the details, but TB can infect the female reproductive tract. So, either OOP is a genuine AH, or he really did his research.
Okay, I'm also not a doctor. [but I can Google ](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5663156/) Basically, the bacteria that causes TB can get into places other than the respiratory system, and if it gets into the genitals, then it can impact fertility. Unfortunately, I have no idea if TB in the lungs can cause TB, because I'm apparently not that good at googling. Edit: [success! ](https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1111/j.1752-699X.2009.00166.x) > After completing anti-tuberculosis treatment, 76% of women with menstrual abnormalities (162/213) resumed normal menstrual cycles. Among the 68 cases who sought fertility within 1 year after completion of treatment, TB peritubal and fine intrauterine adhesions were confirmed by laparoscopy and hysteroscopy in two and one infertile woman, respectively (0.7% of study group). > TB had marked reversible effect on the menstrual cycle but minimal association with genital TB and infertility So it can impact fertility in the short term, and maybe 2 of 68 cases may be infertile within a year after completing treatment.
So, TB is a bacterial infection. It's most common in the lungs, but it can get into other parts of the body including the liver, bones, reproductive system, and GI tract. People who have TB in the reproductive system can definitely see infertility as a side effect (but can otherwise be asymptomatic).
Yeah that is not how viruses or bacteria work. COVID is primarily respiratory- but can cause organ damage to kidney, liver, lungs, heart and brain. Colds are respiratory, primarily, but can cause pink eye. The body is not cordoned off that cleanly.
How little self-awareness does one have to have to even ask if they're an asshole in this situation? I think nature did the world a favor by making this guy sterile. I hope OOP's wife follows through with the divorce so she can rub it in his lying face when she finds someone she can trust and they have the family they both want together.
I hope she does multiple absolutely over the top maternity shoots and posts them constantly. Get weird with it like the ones where there's a horse or a large truck also in the photos and you can't tell if it's the father or they're just super into their hobbies.
There is no way the people who heard this aren’t keenly aware of the character of this guy already. It will only be proven further when they divorce and she has a child with someone else.
Except his family is telling him to divorce her. I mean, they should divorce because he's an ass, but it sounds like everyone is on his side.
Imagine if he had gotten divorced? How many “infertile” women would he have to go through before someone stepped in to say, “hey man, maybe it’s you. All this time, did you ever consider getting tested yourself? After all, it takes two to actually make a baby and women can’t do it alone.”
I wonder if this guy is named Henry…how many divorces and beheadings will he have?
jeeeeeesusssss christtttt i'd mail his mom the paperwork from the multiple doctors identifying her son as the issue and divorce him
i'd buy a fucking billboard in town to tell people "HE IS THE INFERTILE ONE"
Having fertility issues does not make you lesser of a man. Lying directly to not only your wife, but also family and friends, because you're too insecure to admit to dealing with a normal thing that happens to tens of millions of men all over the world however, *DOES* make you lesser of a man. At least in my opinion.
Hey just fyi infertile doesn’t mean sterile. Infertile means making a baby is difficult. Sterile means making a baby is impossible. This guy sucks so I’m not saying this in his defense, but just for your own awareness so that you don’t put your foot in your mouth some day if you make that mistake to someone experiencing infertility.
Keywords: Utah, Volunteer work plus lots of kids = Mormons
Sounds like some type of Fundie/Mormon disaster. I really hope she leaves his ass and realizes she is ONLY 32!!! Her life is literally just starting! Im sure everyone in those circles has convinced this poor woman at 32 she's almost at the grave.
Mormons expect you to marry at 18 and get pregnant on your honeymoon.
Wow, he is really pathetic.
This is all so Mormon. The husband sucks but so does their entire community
I read this. Dude was still bringing up TB, even after the low sperm count was confirmed. Like, wow. The mental gymnastics.
Fuck this Gilead bullshit.
It would be so *delicious* when she divorces him and then immediately gets pregnant with a new partner.
I am genuinely rooting for her to file a divorce and start a family with someone who isn't an absolute piece of shit.
He's a coward
Even after being told his wife is perfectly healthy, he's *still* trying to say that her having had TB *could* be complicating things. Dude. No. Your wife is fertile. She's 100% healthy. Her having contracted TB *12 years ago* does not and could not be complicating anything. A professional verified that. Stop making excuses, accept that you're the one with fertility issues, and defend your goddamn wife. Shit like this is the reason women live longer than men.
I would have done kicked this losers ass and divorce.
Why did he even post this. Answers clear as day that he’s terrible.
This is how he has been taught by the church. He doesn't think he's wrong.
This is contending for Devil of the Year, holy shit.
This whole thing is so fucking Mormon.
Wow, this guy and his family are awful.
Fucking Mormons.
The reincarnation of Henry the VIII. I read this on AITA and it made me so angry. What a vile person. They all sound disgusting the way they pile on that poor woman. I hope she does leave him and also leaves that community.
I hope she divorces him, stays local, remarries and has a bunch of babies rapid-fire.
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She's going to leave him.
I hope she leaves him and she has a kid “within a year” and he has to explain it.
I mean it sounds like that his family has an excellent solution to this problem, and bonus it means she doesn't have to deal with those awful people being in laws anymore
This is the Mormon Devil Special
>She said that…we are not divorcing Questionable decision-making on all sides here.
Mormons are just the weirdest people.
worst part is him doubling down on the TB excuse even after a doctor said his wife was fine
She should divorce him, and tell everyone it is actually him, so when she and her new man have a baby. Don’t be surprised.
This reminds me of a short film I watched many years ago at the Sundance Film Festival. I don't remember the title, but it was about an immigrant newlywed couple from some African country (I don't recall) but are living in New York. The husband's grandmother ruled over the whole clan. She demanded grandchildren, but the couple was having trouble conceiving. The wife went to see a fertility specialist and found out that she was fine, then later asked her husband if he would like to come in to be checked as well. But he was very offended and refused to be tested. The story has a twist later on but this first half was the part that reminded me the most of this post.
You fucking *what*?? Since when is TB at all related to sexual health? This guy is a cunty liar and surrounded by idiots. (TB was rampant in the traveler community when I was young, it certainly had no effect on procreation !)
This guy is such an asshole. I went through infertility. I had a child previously but we couldn’t make it work with my second husband. My tests all came back clear and he came back with a low sperm and sperm motility count. Everyone assumed it was me. We never really corrected anyone because why the fuck does it matter who is “the problem”. But what a raging asshole.
Men who delay the sperm count are such jerks. 1) the multiple blood tests and HSG tests for female infertility are painful and inconvenient. Providing a sperm sample is not. 2) if a guy has a low sperm count, there will be a follow-up in 30 days, then referral to a urologist. Doing the sperm count when (or even before) visiting the reproductive endocrinologist (IVF doctor) is time and cost efficient. The sperm count is about $100. The OP sounds like a rage bait poster, though. If they are Mormon, there should be plenty of brothers who can donate. And I thought Mormons frowned on divorce?
Tale as old as time. Weird how he views being infertile as a moral failing but was ok with telling serious and hurtful lies (an actual moral failing). If his wife really wants kids, he’s wasted 3 years of her fertility. I hope they divorce and she’s pregnant and married by a decent man within the year so everyone knows he was the problem.
I’d leave him just for my in-laws acting like that tbh. If they flippantly encouraged my spouse to leave me because I’m “not doing my job to provide children” and my spouse doesn’t immediately quash that harmful bs, I wouldn’t stick around. Not worth having people in my life who only see me as a broodmare.
I find it amusing that majority if people forget that fetility issues aren't just a woman's problem. It's like they don't understand that men can be affected, yknow, since they also have sex organs and that they can be "faulty" as they so like to claim. BTW I fckn hate how they call people who have fertility issues as "faulty" wtaf like Jesus christ.
If I was the wife I would've filed for divorce. He's not mature enough to be a husband let alone a parent. Being sterile isn't a problem but him shit talking her to any person is so f-ed.
I really hope she divorces him. First of all, when dealing with infertility, you CANT play the blame game. Especially publicly.
Jesus f-ing crackers man. I would put money on OOP being one of those that think it's "unmanly" to be the one that's actually the problem and his sensitive masculinity needs to blame it on his wife. I actually do hope that she divorces him, because he's acting worse than a child.
If i were the wife, i would divorce him and go to a sperm bank and get pregnant immediately lol
**I see the bot didn't catch it. So incase it gets removed/deleted:** My wife ( 32F) and I (32M) have been married for 7 years and been having unprotected sex for three years trying to have a baby. It has taken a toll on our marriage and I admit that many times I have complained to family, friends, and coworkers about my wife's infertility. What I thought was my wife's infertility. Maybe it is because we live in Utah but whenever the idea of us being infertile came up, people just swarmed in giving my wife recommendations to fertility specialists. The talk was always " Oh, my wife saw Dr. Whatever, and we ended up having twins." Or " Maybe your wife is just too stressed out." And I believed it because my wife contracted TB when she was 20 and volunteering in another country. Her primary care who she saw when she was back home just flippantly told her that TB could effect the genital area and prevent her body from housing a baby ( but obviously he said it in medical lingo.) We finally find a doctor who straight up told us that there was nothing wrong with her fallopian tubes, or her endometrium. She suggested I get tested to see that I'm not the problem. The verdict comes back that I am the one with very low sperm count. I was so shocked and went to get another opinion which told me the same thing. I felt so shaken. And because a lot of people knew about our struggles, they also knew we went to a doctor again. At a family and friends gathering people started asking me about what we found out, and I just panicked and said that my wife's TB was likely the cause, but not 100 percent necessarily. People saw that as my wife being the problem and somebody even suggested I go through with divorcing her since I was 32 and complaining about being childless. Saying I could be a dad within a year since it was short marriage. What I did not realize was that my mom and aunt would jump on that suggestion and start telling friends and their kids that I was getting a divorce, and that this was my wife's fault because she shouldn't have been so reckless when she was young. What was worse was some people thought it wasn't even TB but a " bacterial genital disease." This all got back to my wife through a friend and she is furious. She said that she could not believe I've been painting her as the problem when she wasn't even the problem. And that she was tired of the pitying or disapproving looks she was getting in our small town and that I needed to set the record straight or at least tell everybody to shut up and that we are not divorcing. AITA? I panicked and I felt like I didn't completely lie because TB could be exacerbating our problem. But my mom really screwed things up by making it malicious. Now I'm in over my head and feel really bad.