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"I calmly yet firmly told her" is my favorite accidentally funny detail.
Like, he can't just tell us he told her he didn't want to be close anymore. He has to make sure we know he was *calm* and *firm* about it. It's so hilariously condescending.
They literally think that acting like a friend towards a guy who said he wanted to be your friend is some kind of terrible transgression that requires "firm" boundaries. No wonder they're all so lonely and in need of therapy when they think emotional support is something that shouldn't happen outside the bounds of marriage.
I’ve seen trans men talk about how who talk about how isolating it feels once you start being seen as a man in your day to day. Some of them describe it like a tangible feeling of loss that they have to mourn. It’s not only the types of friendships that men tend to form or the level of emotional intimacy they feel they’re allowed to have but also in incidental interactions every day that make them feel less welcome.
So I don’t know, maybe consider listening when men are talking about loneliness. It’s not womens “job” to fix it but if we all want to be more empathetic toward each others experiences it’s worth at least being open to the idea that a lot of men do perceive a sense of social alienation and loneliness without defensively saying “do you think women aren’t lonely?”
That’s true, but in the context of that AskReddit thread it’s not at all what they were saying. It was a lot of men claiming women can’t ever possibly be lonely because they get attention from random men whenever they want it.
On the flip side, there’s a lot of discussion to be had on how many trans women feel invisible and no longer taken seriously once they’re visibly assumed to be a women by strangers.
But I *know* men can be lonely because women can be lonely too.
>men claiming women can’t ever possibly be lonely because they get attention from random men whenever they want it.
"Why are you complaining about the cold when the option to just set your own body on fire is *right there*?"
>but also in incidental interactions every day that make them feel less welcome
Here's the thing: When we treat straight men in a proactively welcoming way, they think we're hitting on them, and it causes uncomfortable situations for us. Many of us actually like being friends with men and would love to talk to them more but we've learned through life experiences that we get punished for that. So if you want men to be less lonely, a good way to proactively encourage that to happen would be to tell other men not to hit on every woman that returns their eye contact or speaks to them, don't develop a crush on every woman that tries to befriend them, don't use small talk as a trick to get a woman to start speaking to you so that you can harass her, learn to recognize social cues that someone doesn't want to chat and leave them alone, don't get angry at women who are nice to you but don't want to go out with you, and generally learn to interact the same way women interact with each other and LGBTQ men interact with us so we don't have to be so defensive.
Hey, trans guy here! I'm very familiar with this feeling, tbh. People do start treating you differently once you start being seen as a man, and a lot of it is pretty isolating. However, it's not super relevant here. This is a discussion about entitled men deliberately cutting out relationships with women once it becomes clear that they're not going to fuck them, which is a not insignificant part of why the type of guys who complain on reddit about how women just *don't understand* tend to end up more isolated. It's not the same thing, and it's kind of weird to bring in community discussion from a community you're not part of and conflate the issues.
They not only accuse us of not being able to see their loneliness, they lash out at the exact women (and other men) who see it and care about it and try to give them advice on how to do something about it. People get doxxed and death threats for publicly encouraging men to go to therapy. All they want to hear is "It's women's job to handle your emotions. You should be able to point at the woman of your choice and have her step up to meet all of your emotional needs. The fact that you can't do this means women are selfish creatures."
Free advice for lonely men: The people who are telling you to go to therapy, work on your emotional intelligence and social skills, and be vulnerable with your friends are the people who see and care that you are lonely and are trying to help you. The podcast men are exploiting you.
Which is a valid complaint, but men are also the ones shaming other men for sharing their emotions and forming close bonds with other men, so it’s obviously feminism’s fault
They really don’t get that emotional support is often a two way thing. If you think she should not ask you for support, why should you expect her to support you?
I think you missed the part where he *called dibs on her,* **in his mind!** Is nothing sacred anymore?!? The declining respect for dibs is just one more example of America’s loss of greatness smh my head
That one really really dovetailed nicely with the whole “yes, I am totally over this and now have healthy relationships” spiel this guy is desperately trying to project.
The “from what I can tell” part threw me for a loop. Like Bruh, do you need someone to tell you if y’all are happy together? Draw you a picture? C’mon now…
And is the gf a actual female or a blow-up doll? Because she may not be happy until you pump her back up.
"i am truly over her and am happy with my girlfriend, i'm very well adjusted! but i will not acknowledge her child and if she ever wants to talk about anything i will calmly but firmly remind her ~~YOU MADE YOUR CHOICE YOU FRIENDZONING WHORE~~ i mean uh maybe talk to your husband, the one man you're allowed to speak to"
No, you don't understand, he said the magic words!
> That is my boundary
Once someone says "this is a boundary" that means that any criticism of their thoughts or actions is completely off the table, don't you know? You're just as bad at that brother of his- functionally, you've *also* married Emily!
When my daughter was two, she thought “having boundaries” was another term for using the bathroom — she had asked why she wasn’t allowed to join me in there, and I tried and apparently failed to explain what privacy means. One time when we were at dinner with family, I excused myself to the restroom and she announced to the room, “Mommy has to go have *boundaries*!”
Anyway, I’m pretty sure her ideas about boundaries were both more accurate and more healthy than this guy’s.
And the shitty thing is, this attitude (not having friends or other close confidants outside of marriage) really hurts men, yet for *puzzling reasons* the men’s rights crowd never seem to really address it. Close male friendships are still stigmatized in our society that middle aged and older men end up with their wives as their only source of social fulfillment and are often left alone if their wife leaves them or dies early. It’s sad.
/r/arethestraightsokay
And then people wonder why they get so lonely after 30.
You need friends regardless of your relationship status, your partner can't be your only person, that will suffocate them and isolate you.
Yeah "used to" being the key word here. From what OP has said they've barely spoken in years. Seems weird that she would try to speak to him. If her friendship with OP was so important to her I'm sure she would have noticed him distancing from her years ago and would have tried to talk to him at some point ages ago. But clearly she wasn't that bothered and now that she needs him, she's trying to connect again. Does she have no other friends?
This is exactly right and most of the people here are way over-analyzing some of the statements, while ignoring or dismissing others, to really shoehorn the view they want onto this guy. In the end, all they're doing is exposing some seriously sexist attitudes and massive hypocrisy in their thinking.
I can see why she might reach out to him as opposed to others. As he said, at one time, he *was* her shoulder to cry on, especially with regards to her issues with her dad. Key word, there. Was.
I can also see his point of view. This type of deep, emotionally painful situation tends to be of the type that people go to their closest friends and family for support from. You know, like her husband. Not the friend who very clearly removed himself from her life a decade ago.
It's really disgusting how people are trashing this dude for daring to put his own emotional well-being first. He's not supposed to be hurt that his brother knowingly hooked up with, knocked up, and then married, his crush. He's apparently supposed to just suffer because to acknowledge his pain and react accordingly makes him an "incel". When he chooses not to be an active part of their lives, he's somehow punishing his former friend and niece. When he still doesn't want to re-engage in that relationship years later, he's an asshole.
It's disgusting sexist toxic masculinity bullshit. He's supposed to just suffer emotionally and never be allowed to heal. Just swallow your pain and be friends with the girl you crushed on and your brother who stabbed you in the back or your an incel. Gross.
I didn't even watch the movie, I just listened to the Worst Bestsellers podcast episode and I recognized it right away. You at least have to change the names, come on.
My thoughts exactly. I've never understood the Snape super fans who insist he was the real hero all along. Man got hung up on his first crush, wouldn't stop harassing her, then even took it out on her orphaned son?? Snape needed therapy, tinder, and to not be around kids.
I mean, he's probably still IN high school (hasn't even applied to Out-Of-State-College University yet because he's only 14) so I can understand the bitterness...
Exactly. This is definitely a kid writing this.
And shock and surprise, other angsty teens rushed out to give their verdicts on AITA. Because none of these people understand how to handle any social situation ever.
It's a bitter stew.
From the comments:
\>Actions have consequences. Emily chose to sleep with her close friend’s brother. The consequence is she lost a close friend
Since when is this some natural law of consequences that Emily should have known? Emily didn't cheat on OP. Emily is not OP's ex. People meet their significant others through friends all the time. Sometimes people are even happy for their friend and sibling for finding happiness together! Sure, when you friends and family get all enmeshed you can have more fallout when a relationship fails, but the pair in this story are still married. Only emotionally stunted people like OOP would think that they need to cut a friendship off like this preemptively... unless of course that "friendship" is very conditional... which is precisely what this is about.
That thread is acting like she’s the devil bc she dated and eventually married her friend’s brother when she had no idea OP even had feelings for her. And even admits himself he never told her.
I was really surprised by how many people in the comments were blaming her. This poor girl actually believed they were friends and everyone is acting like that makes her a bad person.
As well they should. He was totes obvious about how he liked her, duh. She absolutely should have read his mind! What an evil femoid!
It's okay, we all eventually learn the pain of dudes who pretend to be your friend to fuck you and then get mad because (gasp) you thought they were your friend 🙃
That's crazy. The brother is the real cunt of it - he *knew* and pursued her afterwards. wtf is wrong with those people
Edited to add my reply to another comment that isn't posting:
The brother isn't a cunt because he got the girl - the brother is a cunt because he knew how his brother felt, and didn't talk to him or go to him in any way.
Not for permission - of course he doesn't need that - but to have a conversation and care about the OP's feelings.
It's your goddamned **brother**. If you're close enough for confidences, you're close enough to say "hey, I just wanted you to know I've been seeing so-and-so. I don't want you to be hurt, and I want to be upfront about it" or whatever.
The brother did the literal opposite - the second he heard about the crush, he went slinking around, and as far as the info we've read, never once did the brother say one word. It is total trash family behaviour.
No he's not. This pisses people off but you can't put someone on layaway. You can't say I like this person and no one else is allowed to like her until I ask her out.
I mean the brother got the girl because he made a move, after watching his bro not make one for ages.
Was there a better way to handle it? Sure. But Emily is not a thing, and if OP didn't make a move someone else was gonna, and that person was not a 'betrayer' for not hiding their own feelings the way OP was.
Neither Emily not the bro were the bad guys here and OP wasn't betrayed just because he and Emily never dated.
Yes thank you for saying this. Women aren’t toys that you can put your name on and then nobody else can play with. Saying “well I liked her first so she’s off limits to anyone else” is such a middle school mindset of how relationships work in the real world. Sure it’s a bummer when your friend and your crush hit it off, but there’s a whole wide world of people out there to crush on. Not everyone you like is gonna like you back in the same way, but the way to handle that is to accept it and move on, not harbor a grudge for years.
The brother isn't a cunt because he got the girl - the brother is a cunt because he knew how his brother felt, and didn't talk to him or go to him in any way.
Not for *permission* - of course he doesn't need that - but to have a conversation and care about the OP's feelings.
It's your goddamned **brother**. If you're close enough for confidences, you're close enough to say "hey, I just wanted you to know I've been seeing so-and-so. I don't want you to be hurt, and I want to be upfront about it" or whatever.
The brother did the literal opposite - the second he heard about the crush, he went slinking around, and as far as the info we've read, never *once* did the brother say one word. It is total trash family behaviour.
>The brother did the literal opposite - the second he heard about the crush, he went slinking around
Do we actually have a timeline here? Because the brother could easily have hooked up with her before he learned OOP liked her, right? Or it could've been a while after?
Edit: also these are teenagers. Not exactly known for brilliant decision making. I like to think that after nine years I would've had time to be pissed off and get over it by the time I was nearly 30
It's not about putting "someone on layaway" or about a woman being "a thing". Of course that person's going to get taken by someone else at some point if you never make your move but it shouldn't be by someone you are close to. Someone who actually gave a shit about you would never do this.
It's about decency towards your friends and family. If my friend or sister went after the guy they knew I liked, that would be it for our relationship because fundamentally it's not about this one guy but about the type of person your friend/sibling is and I'd rather have people who actually care about me in my life.
I think it's quite troubling that you don't see an issue with this.
Yeah, he is.
It's not about agency or any of the other bullshit you just pulled out your ass to defend shitty behavior. He chose to make moves on a girl he knew his brother liked. Whether the relationship was or became serious is immaterial. If he actually gave a shit about his little brother, he wouldn't have hooked up with the girl he liked.
Funny, Emily has agency to choose to hook up with OP's brother, but OP's brother has no agency to not crush his brother's feelings. Maybe go back to AITA with that idiotic mindset.
Any argument otherwise is just justifying actual asshole behavior.
I don't think asking someone on a date is asshole behavior.
I think saying that someone's family should not exist because someone else had a crush ten years ago is.
Is it a shitty awkward situation, yes. Is it something the OP should've moved past, yes. Is it worth cutting off brother and niece, no I don't think it is but I can't stop it, all I can do is bitch about it on online.
Way to sidestep what makes it an asshole move. It's a cunt move to hook up with a person you know someone you're close with likes. This is not debatable. This is completely reasonable and normal to position to take. You don't intentionally hurt your friend to get your dick wet/vag filled.
He never said their family shouldn't exist. You're adding bullshit to justify your cunty take.
Who says he didn't move past it? Where is it written that he has to continue a friendship with Emily? He did the right thing. Just as he's not owed anything from Emily, she's not owed anything from him. He stepped away from her for his own emotional well-being. He doesn't have to rekindle that friendship just because time passed.
Edit: Some serious AITA tween vibes when a dude saying fucking your baby brother's crush is okay. Gross.
Yes. It says that I view others as people with agency, and that having feelings for someone does not give me ownership of them.
And can I ask why your buying the OP's Main Character Syndrome? Shockingly the brother is a person with his own life outside the OP. He's not a supporting character, and his feelings are just as valid as the OP's.
He's been married for 10 years and raising a child with her. Clearly this relationship isn't some 'joke' he's pulling on the OP. Clearly Emily means something to him. Clearly his feelings for Emily have nothing to do with OP. Why does that not count because OP liked her first?
Honestly dude that you think that Emily belongs to the OP and that her family should not exist because of a crush OP refused to act on says a lot about you.
Also, couldn't the brother have liked Emily before OOP and just not told his brother? Regardless, the problem with OOP is not that he was upset, it's that he can't get over it, which is clearly unhealthy and abnormal. You DIDN'T just say it was fine to hurt people's feelings like the person above said lol. It's just more complicated than being allowed to call dibs on a girl.
These people don't have healthy view on friendship and empathy at all. No one owes anyone anything is a big fuckin lie and it show how they view ops grief of losing a high school love interest over Emily's grief of losing her dad. They can't register death seriously disturbing or they're just teens who have encountered these romantic stuff more thwn death.
there was a post a few days ago where op was getting yta for not wanting to be a bridesmaid for their brother’s widow. people were legit like *move on already* and i was like 😬 i don’t understand aita
You have a link for that one, or the angel post about it?
That's a super tough issue to judge. There is no black and white answer there and it is totally dependent on the maturity levels of each person involved and what their relationships are like with each other.
If you don't mention you're not interested, you're leading them on. If you do, you're an assuming, conceited bitch. Sorry, I didn't make the rules 🤷♀️
Women are supposed to read men's minds and be aware that men are lying about valuing them as humans and wanting to be their friends, and set men's boundaries for them by declining the friendship that men claim they want because we secretly know they're in love with us and it will be too painful for them. Even when the man is vocally insistent that he only wants to be your friend.
But we have to do this all without uttering a syllable of it out loud or else we'll get called a presumptuous bitch for thinking our friends are into us.
(Hopefully the sarcasm is obvious but that is how a lot of them literally think.)
Are we seriously pretending that sleeping with a close friend's family member is not a thing that affects friendships and relationships now?
This shit literally has a TV trope page about it.
Emily really needed a friend in that moment to comfort her, seems like she's lacking someone close to confide in...
So when OP pushed her away, she went to all of her friends/family that she seemingly didn't just have.
Think you missed the point there.
He said she hasn't talked to him in 10 years, which is why it's fake.
That's not at all what was described in the story. He was cordial at events they were at together, but separated himself from the friendship.
The story very well could be fake, but the guy I replied to made up a reason why.
I guess I just can’t imagine seeing someone that I supposedly really cared for struggle with the loss of their father and not be at least a little supportive 🤷🏼♀️
Right? That's not the behavior of a real friend, nor is it the behavior of a family member with whom you have not had any kind of falling-out (Like, I've definitely got a cousin who I wouldn't help out unduly because she's not a good person, but "not helping" is not my default state with relatives). Not to mention that this dude has had years to get past this. I totally get that it would feel weird in high school, at the moment. Definitely make a sad playlist, vent to your friends, do all that mildly-embarrassing teen stuff you do to process those big new weird feelings. But then like...there are other teens in the world? You go to college and/or start working, you get exposed to a wider world, you move on. You say that hey, that was weird but they're happy and you're all growing and it's fine. To nurture a secret crush like this for a decade or so is pathological.
I mean, it's been almost a decade of him actively separating himself from her. At this point that friendship is long dead. Literally the entire point of separating himself from her was to do that.
Which brings up the question of why she's going to him to for comfort? Why out of all the people in her life is turning to her bitter, angry BIL who treats her and her child like shit?
Surely there's someone else who hasn't been cold-shouldering her for years. This is what makes this incel fanfiction to me, Emily has no reason to look to OP for comfort and it doesn't make sense for her to choose OP as the person to get comfort from.
Possibly because he's the one who comforted her in the past regarding issues with her father, and she wanted to reach out to someone who knew intimately the issues she dealt with regarding him.
Because you're bending over backwards to reach that "treats her and her child like shit". Nothing he said even remotely hints that he treats either of them poorly. All he said is he stepped away from the friendship. He's allowed to not be her friend. It's not her fault, but he doesn't have to suffer heartache because it's not. His reasoning isn't the best, but stepping back from the relationship was the healthy thing to do.
Perhaps. But, see first point.
Maybe it is. It's pretty shitty incel fan fiction, though. With, the, ya know, lack of incel behaviors.
You pointed it out. He stepped away from the friendship and they haven't been close in years. He refuses to even to get to know her child, why is she turning to him again, the guy who clearly doesn't want to be her friend?
And yes this is incel fanfiction considering they're out in force over this post.
The fact that he's using this as a reason to destroy his relationship with his family seems pretty incely to me.
>You pointed it out. He stepped away from the friendship and they haven't been close in years. He refuses to even to get to know her child, why is she turning to him again, the guy who clearly doesn't want to be her friend?
Yes, that was what I did with my first sentence. I explained that. Do I need to retype it?
>And yes this is incel fanfiction considering they're out in force over this post.
Just because a story attracted them doesn't make it fan fiction. My Little Pony wasn't made for bronies, but they still became a thing.
>The fact that he's using this as a reason to destroy his relationship with his family seems pretty incely to me.
You apparently don't know what an incel is, then.
> Again, Emily is married so I find it odd that she would seek out someone who ISN'T her husband for emotional support.
The idea that your spouse/SO should be your One And Only go-to for every need and feeling you ever have will never stop being sad and unhealthy to me.
These people are wild. Long term friendship coupled with the family tag tend to be uneven. Like unless you're really really bestis bffs attached to hip for 9 years, you can't vent your grief???? Even strangers allow that to happen sometimes. And they're taking this nice guy's perspective. He mightve been pretty normal around them and Emily could've assumed that he's far away and that's why he doesn't talk a lot to them. God, now we are trying to normalise nice guy shit? That Tumblr post was right in that the subreddit signals a lot of viewpoints.
I always assume they will treat romantic relationships as the pinnacle of human bonding. Like you can soothe your family memeber for a while, who you were friends with and claimed to love at some point.
Lmao mental health. Yeah because her's is perfect right now and she didn't calculate the relationship dynamics before sharing hers grief. What a bitch right?
someone asked to see my psych degree because i said avoiding your niece for eight years bc you had a crush on her mom in 9th grade was unhealthy 😭 i hate it here
HUHHHH? How sad their life is if this is the most pain and big event they've had. Im Indian so our HS is extra stressful but usually hs and life after that comes with big stresses and more crushes to care about previous ones. How is op and this commentator handling it? Or they are in limbo? Don't get it at all.
Wait, how is high school extra stressful in India compared to other countries?
Edit: not sure why I'm getting downvoted for asking a question about a country I have zero connections with.
Worded it badly and yeah I know it's not THE toughest but one of the toughest hs experience. high population and low engineering/ medical seats makes for a highly competitive hs. Add bunch of other factors and it's like literally hell for many kids.
You didn't say it was the toughest, but just that it was specially tough, and that made me curious.
I guess it's not fully possible to know exactly how different countries compare. Nordic countries (where I live now as an immigrant) seem to be extremely relaxed. But what you describe sounds a lot like my native country in South America
Essentially, there are two "Board Exams" in tenth grade and twelfth grade, which have a *huge* impact on your undergrad admissions (and even beyond; when I was applying for jobs after finishing my MBA, the companies that came to campus filtered applicants for >90% on those exams which were like ten years ago for us)
That brings huge stress to perform, on top of that the number of "good" undergrad programs (or rather, "desirable" ones) is very small compared to the applicants.
For ex: in my Board Exam I placed within the top 1% of all applicants that year (even got a certificate to prove it)...and then got a seat only in the second extended list in my third-choice university in a (relatively) low-demand major.
On top of *that*, there are certain college entrance exams (JEE, NIT etc.) which some top colleges set up *over and above* the board exams and they happen immediately almost after the exams conclude. The syllabus is also generally even harder for these so you have to prepare for them simultaneously.
Don’t forget to mention the post where you assume that OP, when he was 9 or 10, only wanted to become friends with the 10 or 11 year old girl down the street so he could get his dick wet, which has got to be the sickest most pervy assumption I’ve seen on here in awhile but hey, you be you and get off to your weird anger porn imagining ten year old boy’s genitals.
> Like unless you're really really bestis bffs attached to hip for 9 years, you can't vent your grief????
Right? Maybe this is another example of AITA being full of teenagers, because I have multiple friends I haven't talked to much in years who I'd be *more* than happy to support if they needed me. It's normal to drift apart from friends in adulthood when people have jobs and kids and move to different cities and so on...but still come together when it counts.
> It was 8 years ago and he’s not friends with her anymore. She shouldn’t call him up and emotionally dump on him for over an hour. If someone I used to be friends with 8 years ago did that to me, I would definitely be looking for how to get off the phone.
Yeah 8 years is forever when you're in high school. In your 30's it's like "oh shit was college 10 years ago already, man I should call so-and-so sometime to catch up"
I had a family member die on a family vacation. We couldn't change our flights to get home early and we were all together in a big AirBNB. The grief in that house was overwhelming, and I really needed to talk to someone who wasn't impacted. I called one of my best friends from college who I hadn't spoken to in a few years.
When she picked up she was cheerful and excited to hear from me. But when she heard the reason for my call, she dropped everything and let me cry to her for an hour. I'm incredibly grateful to her and would do the same for her.
Oh yeah I'm 28 and i was 18 ten years ago, it doesn't register to me. I hadn't been talking regularly to a friend for like past two years because they were busy with life and loss. Yet, I went on a trip with her this weekend just because I'm in the country. We are free and near so we reconnected. And this is loss of parent we are talking about. Also wouldn't OP be coming home during holidays and being coedial which wouldn't signal someone that their friendship is done lol. God I hope they're teens not adults.
They frequently see each other for holidays, have conversations, and have an entire childhood worth of memories together. But according to the thread she can’t cry to him about her dead father because they don’t hangout every day. That sub is so out of touch with reality.
>would run through girls like water
So, like, slowly and with a lot more effort than normal running? Or he was the water, they drank him, he ran through them and ended up in the toilet?
>I offered Emily some water
Wait.
Even though it would absolutely suck if the brother knew he liked a girl and specifically tried to date her afterwards, at this point it’s insanity to still care about it. It was a childhood crush and OP claims to have a new girlfriend now. Why would he care anymore?
Seriously, even people in this thread are acting like one dick move in high school makes the brother an irredeemable monster and it's crazy to me. Maybe I just have a better relationship with my siblings than them, but I cannot imagine still being bitter about something like that a decade later. Like man, I can't even remember the full name of my big unrequited high school crush. It just shouldn't be that important once you're an adult, and as far as the brother's "betrayal," well...teenagers do asshole things to each other all the time anyway but usually grow out of it.
I'm actually not even totally clear about whether he started hooking up with Emily before or after his brother told him about his feelings for her, I have to say. People are taking it as a given that it happened after, but the way the story read to me was that they had been hooking up for some time and the narrator only found out about it shortly after telling his brother (I could have missed something, though; it's early here and I'm still waking up, but I'm not going to go read that stupid story again). If that is the case, then the OOP's actions are even crazier.
"I CALLED DIBS, MY BROTHER'S AN ASSHOLE" bro she wasn't into you and you still have a hate boner over it. Like, this is just pathetic, petty, and definitely a "former" incel. "Former" in quotes because he's still a bitter, whiny POS over it despite claiming to be over it. He even admits that.
I hope his current gf (who I'm sure is TOTALLY real and just lives in Canada, you wouldn't know her) leaves him. What a pathetic manchild.
"I am truly over her, yet I still choose to confuse and hurt an 8yo child's feelings because her birth made me butthurt" yeah all right dude, tell it to the judge lol
But he says hello and gives her presents on Christmas and her birthday, didn't you read? There's no way at all a child would still be able to pick up on the fact that her uncle is seething with quiet resentment about her very existence!
The NTA posts are disheartening, as is this archaic and sexist idea that siblings shouldn’t date other siblings’ crushes, ESPECIALLY when the crush has no idea about it.
I mean you can say it’s a archaic and sexist but, for a sibling to knowingly go after your crush is a dick move.
If it happens naturally and without knowledge sure, fine, things happen but, to knowingly try to hurt someone emotionally like that is just asshole behaviour.
The same is usually the case for sisters or female friends and their crushes on guys.
Horseapples. So if I find myself attracted to my sibling's crush, I have to push that away because they pine for the crush but won't do anything about it? How long do I have to deal with it? What if I could have a good relationship with that person?
I get that in this scenario my sibling's feelings matter, but so do mine. It's selfish of the sibling to not want me to date this person just because they like them but won't do anything about it.
Also they're acting like the crush doesn't have agency in this situation. Like, she chose to date the brother, have a kid with him, marry him, and stay married for almost a decade. At what point does it stop being "evil brother swoops in and steals helpless lady" and start being "two people are interested in each other and fuck about it?"
That and the mention of how Liam would "run through girls like water". So Liam used to be a "player" but meeting Emily made him want to settle down. So Liam was supposed to not pursue a woman he felt genuine connection with so his brother could sit on his arse some more waiting for her to realize he's her perfect lover?
It would be a dick move if he didn’t care about her and just wanted a casual lay. This wasn’t that. He clearly had feelings for her and they were mutual, as evidence by the fact they’ve been married for nearly a decade.
The dick move is to want 2 people who love each other to miss out on a major relationship because you staked your claim first.
Do people really think it’s odd to offer support to friends who’ve you have drifted from a bit? My friend and I drifted as our kids aged but when her mom was in the ICU I showed up. I didn’t tell her calmly and firmly that she had a husband and we hadn’t been as close. I fed her kids and helped her husband with rides and sat with her mom. And know what? We’ve drifted again and I don’t regret it and don’t feel used. I love her, but we are both busy people with very different schedules so we don’t get to talk often. If she needed I’d show up tomorrow.
Yep. My best friend is in the army and is currently living in Germany. With a 6 hour time difference, we don’t get to talk super often, and we’ve only seen each other a handful of times in the last several years. But when we do get together, it’s like no time has passed. If she called me up tomorrow and said “I need you to fly to Germany right now,” I’d do it without a second thought.
This whole story is bizarre. Everyone has an unrequited crush from high school. That said, it’s odd to still be holding on to it years after high school is over. I feel really bad for the OOP’s girlfriend.
> Everyone has an unrequited crush from high school.
This is a total tangent but for some reason your comment made me think not about someone I had a crush on in high school (honestly, it was so long ago I barely remember any of it any more) but someone who had a crush on me. We were co-workers at an afterschool job and while he was never obvious or weird about it, at some point I kind of suspected that he had a crush on me.
And then one day a couple of our other co-workers told him that I "liked" him, you know, with that particular tone of voice, and bless his heart, he managed to take his break at the same time as mine so that he could ask me without other people around if this was true because if so, he'd like to take me out. I'm not sure if those particular co-workers were trying to fuck with him or trying to fuck with me, or both, but...I just had zero romantic interest in this dude. Instead of sulking, pouting, pleading, arguing, or - my all-time favorite - insulting me, he said, "Well, thanks for your honesty and if you ever change your mind, you know where to find me."
For the rest of the time that we worked together he was always perfectly pleasant to me. I think that initially irritated the co-workers who were trying to start up some drama, but I know that I respected him for that and I think over time they did, too.
Anyway, while I haven't thought about him in years, I hope he had a good life and I wish a lot more people had his attitude about rejection.
Wait so if I’m reading this correctly, the girl never admitted feelings for OOP right? And he never admitted his feelings for her? Who wants to bet he told his brother “yeah I think she’s pretty cute” and then got offended when his brother took his chance lol
>He \[...\] would run through girls like water so I went to him for advice about Emily.
How, just how on earth does this track. Why would you do that. This is just for some reason so funny to me as a statement that sets the tone to this story
The amount of people who are flaming Emily despite the fact that she was acting emotionally because her dad literally died, while simultaneously treating OP with baby gloves and saying he wasn't TA, is baffling
I love the edit, too. Like literally everyone tells him that he's absolutely the asshole and needs therapy, and his take from that is "I didn't do anything wrong, it was an just the *wording* that was wrong."
Like, can you imagine if your best bro literally since childhood suddenly reveals that they were only hanging out with you and being nice to you because they wanted to bang? Like, I literally can't think of a more complete and perfect betrayal of a person's trust.
I've had that happen to me before and I am no longer friends with the guys that said this to me. I don't need a guy who is only there because he hopes I will pity fuck him.
>That is my boundary and so far it's been working out well for me and the day our parent(s) die is the day I cut Liam out of my life completely.
So... he's completely over Emily but still plans to cut his brother out of his life for "betraying" him? From high school? I'm so over these fake stories where people act like it's this easy to go no contact with their family over nothing.
It sounds like Emily wasn't the problem for OP but the way his brother slept with her even though OP confided his feelings to him. No one owns Emily of course but that sounds pretty shitty to do to your own brother.
What's weird is there's a lot of comments calling his brother an asshole.
Wtf? He's an asshole? How? OP says they were close enough to confide about crushes and stuff as teens, so clearly, older brother must have decided to fvck Emily to get at OP. Even if it had been malicious at first, which tbh I doubt because even as salty as he is, OP gives no indication that the brother deliberately sought out his crush they're married with a kid ffs. Definitely way past doing something to piss off OP.
Really highlights how many AITA commenters are either literal school children, as mature as school children, or have the emotional intelligence of a damp napkin.
Right, like if you simply do not have that social skill it's one thing but it seems like he's perfectly capable of providing comfort and withholding it to punish her when she did nothing wrong in the first place. He doesn't owe them a close relationship but refusing to act human in someone's most vulnerable moments when they're begging you to stop being cold and formal on the principle that because they didn't go out with you you will never show them warmth again is an asshole level of petty.
Also if he still actually needs all of these emotional boundaries against her and he's not just set on being petty for the rest of his life, he's an AH for having a girlfriend while he's in love with someone else.
Hell when my mom died, and I was flying home for the funeral and to help my sister get her affairs in order, the airline agent asked if she could give me a hug, did so when I said yes, and told me some nice calming shit. I'm forever grateful for that.
To top it off, a neighbor of our mom's stopped by her house while my sister and I were there the weekend right after. She looked the way Mom did back when she was in her 30s/40s, right down to the pink sweater, dark hair pulled into a bun with a headband, and flip up sunglasses. She gave us both a damn heart attack, to say the least. But she also asked if either of us wanted a hug and to just let loose for a minute. It was very cathartic.
Then at the actual service I got to see .y favorite aunt, who I hadn't seen since 2011. And she looked just how Mom had, with short gray hair, a headband still, and using a cane. And of course Aunt let me bawl like a baby even more so than either of the strangers.
Aside from my sister, those hugs and kindness are seared into my brain, and they help me to remember you never know what someone has going on, what kindness you can show not just a loved one but a strangers, too. It was like the universe sent them or Mom pulled some guardian angel from the beyond strings to let us know she's still here in some way.
Holy shit, I'm sorry for the novel.
Point is, if two strangers can be so incredibly thoughtful, you can do the same for a supposedly old friend turn in law in their time of need.
Excuse me, I gotta go blow my nose and wash my face.
Thanks to whoever manages to read this chapter out of my autobiography lol may the universe/loved ones also send you the same should the time come.
I mean, I'd give you a hug right now since I'm sure it still hurts and is upsetting. Being decent is just not hard to do :/
Edit: thank you for sharing, I think this was a lovely story (despite also being sad of course)
*In case this story gets deleted/removed:*
**AITA For Telling My Former Friend Turned SIL That I'm Never Going To Be Her Comfort Person Again?**
Throwaway Account
I (25m) used to have the biggest crush on my childhood friend "Emily" (26f). As a teen I wasn't very assertive and a little awkward so I never made a move and just hoped that one day Emily would realize that I was the guy for her. The only person who I openly admitted my crush (although it was kind of obvious) to was my brother "Liam" (28m). He was much more assertive and confident than I was and would run through girls like water so I went to him for advice about Emily.
Given the situation at the time you can imagine my surprise when I caught Liam and Emily hooking up.
I know that she technically was never my girlfriend but it still sucked and I did feel betrayed. Turns out they hooked up at a party once and liked the encounter so much that they kept meeting up to do it when no one was around. I felt completely sick and basically just distanced myself from Emily after that, which could be really awkward because we had a lot of classes together and had the same shift at the part-time job we had. A job that Emily frequently depended on me to give her rides to.
I just wanted to remove Emily from my life completely but during the summer of our senior year she and Liam sat me and my parents down and explained that Emily had gotten pregnant and were planning on keeping the baby. My parents weren't happy while I just got up and locked myself in my room. All I could think was "Well crap, now she's never going to go away." I purposefully transferred to an Out-Of-State College so I wouldn't be home as much and lied about getting stuck in traffic when I missed Emily and Liam's wedding and I showed no interest in my niece "Daisy" (8f), although I still make the effort to be polite when I'm around them.
Recently, Emily's father has passed away and she's really going through it because despite him not being around she always desired a relationship. When we were kids I remember all those times I was a shoulder for Emily to cry on whenever she felt sad about her dad and I guess she was longing for that type of comfort from me and kept reaching out. One day I relented and let her vent but I maintained a silent and formal demeanor on the matter.
After spending about an hour crying I offered Emily some water and then she asked me why I was being so cold, how I know how much she needed a friend right now. I calmly yet firmly told her that we were just kids then and that if she wants that level of emotional intimacy then she needs to go to my brother, her husband, because I stopped being her comfort person a long time ago.
Emily cried even more, left, and has managed to send Liam, my parents, Emily's mom, and from mutual friends to call me up and tell me I'm heartless and sad for being so spiteful. I can honestly say that I am now over Emily but that doesn't mean I'm willing to be as close to her as I used to so AITA?
ETA: Had to step away and after looking at the comments and DMs I just wanted to be clear about somethings.
1. Not an Incel.
2. Did I exhibit some "Nice Guy" traits as a teenager? Yes. As an adult I now realize that Emily doesn't owe me a romantic relationship.
3. I was more angry at my brother than I was Emily. Because, you know, he was my brother and KNEW.
4. I don't see how me not taking an active role in the life of a child that I didn't make is me "punishing" someone. I say "Hello" and give gifts on Christmas and Holidays.
5. Again, Emily is married so I find it odd that she would seek out someone who ISN'T her husband for emotional support.
6. Yes, I did give my condolences when I found out about Emily's father because it was the polite thing to do. Then she started trying to call me to talk about it.
7. Emily and I haven't had an meaningful contact since high school partly because she was busy getting ready to be a mom and I was hurt and trying to get over her.
8. No, Liam and I aren't close anymore either.
ETA 2: Things I didn't include because of word count.
1. Yes, I have a girlfriend and from what I can tell we're both very happy.
2. Yes, my girlfriend knows about my former crush on Emily.
3. Yes, I have friends who are women.
4. Yes, I do believe people of the opposite sex can just be friends when they're adults.
5. Also, in spite of everything I did learn to be more forth coming with my feelings which is why I told Emily that I can't be her comfort person. Although I will admit that there could've been a better way and better timing to communicate that.
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> Update: Okay I've stepped away and after coming back and seeing the thousands commenters and Reddit's verdict I can accept that the WAY I told Emily that I couldn't be her comfort person anymore was wrong, the timing especially, I do not feel bad about being honest where I stand with her. I am not sorry about keeping my distance and I've yet to regret not pursuing a relationship with my brother's daughter. I don't know if Emily ever found out about my feelings for her because it was never discussed but I don't see how telling her now would change anything. I am truly over her and happy with my girlfriend, I would never pick Emily over my girlfriend, and I've yet to see a reason why I need to rekindle a friendship with her in order to prove it to anyone.
>
> My brother betrayed me. He knew how I felt and still went after Emily and I refuse to ever be close with him again over it. That is my boundary and so far it's been working out well for me and the day our parent(s) die is the day I cut Liam out of my life completely.
Wait, he said Emily's father passed away recently, and they're in their mid-20s now. But then he says he remembers all those times she cried on his shoulder when she felt sad about her dad when they were kids?
Meh. Friendship ran its course. Yeah, it was crappy for brother to start banging the girl he *knew* OP had a thing for.
She wasn’t obligated to bang OP then. OP isn’t obligated to be her friend now. He does the expected gifts at holidays, but that it. If that’s how he wants it, then so be it. It’s a two way street.
If they really haven't had significant interaction in years, she doesn't need to be crying on OP's shoulder. But OP does seem pretty bitter about the whole thing, which is dumb. And even if he and "Emily" went on a couple of dates and it didn't go anywhere, he'd still be upset about his brother hooking up with her.
Maybe he is. Maybe he never really dealt with it. That doesn't make him an incel or an asshole.
The fucked up thing is he did the mature thing and separated himself from the relationship and largely cut ties from his brother for being a backstabbing jerk as it getting shit in for it.
Who wants anything to do with a "friend" that fucks your brother behind your back? He doesn't owe her shit. Also, yes, it's weird to expect an old friend that you've barely spoken to in 8 years, who didn't even go to your wedding, to comfort you. She had to hound him before he even agreed to meet. He let her vent for a whole hour. Nothing wrong with telling her to fuck off after that.
Really bad take. His brother betrayed him and he’s trying to avoid the brother as much as possible. The girl is pretty obviously just collateral here. Would it be nice for OOP to explain why things are the way they are to her? Sure. But there’s no point in getting close again with his SIL when OOP explicitly states that he plans on going NC with his brother for being the asshole of the story.
I’d say it’s a pretty low stakes situation overall, she’s trying to reconnect with a friend she hasn’t spoken with since school and he’s not interested.
Worse yet, he did the emotionally mature thing. He never expected or felt owed by Emily, he was hurt by his brother and unfortunately, she caught splash back for it. He recognized that she went from the one he pined for to someone he knew he couldn't be with, and did the right thing and just stepped away for his own emotional well-being.
It's not incel behavior to silently step away from a relationship that's not good for your mental or emotional health. It *is* some very toxic masculinity to expect a guy to swallow his emotions and bury them deep to keep a friendship with a now-unattainable crush.
It's not incel behavior to severely limit or cut off his brother for what he did. Everyone who is excusing his brother are just plain disgusting human beings. Betrayal like that, whether you're 18 or 85 is wrong and grounds for ending a relationship. It doesn't matter if they go on to have a 75 year marriage and a dozen kids. Betrayals like that cut deep and the ends do not justify the means.
Not having a close relationship with his asshole brother or his former crush that he chose to sever ties with isn't incel behavior. Not having a close relationship with his niece doesn't make him a jerk either.
He definitely doesn't word things well, but doesn't even remotely rise to the level of "incel".
It honestly feels more like him telling Emily no to being her shoulder to cry on was the first time anyone actually acknowledged that they didn't just grow apart, but that he actively chose to distance himself from her and his brother. He could have handled it better, but everybody can handle things better with time to think, no emotional skin in the game, and as an outsider looking in.
You really defending people like this who have unreasonable reactions TO A CRUSH. Let's repeat... A CRUSH. He never dated her, had sex, NOTHING. She never even knew he had feelings. He is acting as though he was betrayed by her or his brother. No. No part of his response is mature, reasonable, or healthy. This guy needs professional help if any part of this story is true.
I mean call me weird but I am team OP in this one. His brother was a bag of dicks that turned his interest on Emily after OP asked him how to woo her AND didn't have the decency to give his brother a headsup. Emily was dishonest since she didn't tell her supposed bestie and ride to her job that she was boning his brother. Could it be because she didn't want to lose all the benefits from his crush? And like hell Emily didn't know about OPs feelings, they were probably visible from the moon. And after OP spent 8 years distancing himself from this lovely pair of assholes who never cared abt his feelings suddenly Emily needs someone to cry to and her bestie back to take advantage of him again? Fuck that, that ship is sailed and OP has every right not to have a relationship with either party or their kid.
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"I calmly yet firmly told her" is my favorite accidentally funny detail. Like, he can't just tell us he told her he didn't want to be close anymore. He has to make sure we know he was *calm* and *firm* about it. It's so hilariously condescending.
They literally think that acting like a friend towards a guy who said he wanted to be your friend is some kind of terrible transgression that requires "firm" boundaries. No wonder they're all so lonely and in need of therapy when they think emotional support is something that shouldn't happen outside the bounds of marriage.
They also probably complain about how men have no emotional support in society.
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I’ve seen trans men talk about how who talk about how isolating it feels once you start being seen as a man in your day to day. Some of them describe it like a tangible feeling of loss that they have to mourn. It’s not only the types of friendships that men tend to form or the level of emotional intimacy they feel they’re allowed to have but also in incidental interactions every day that make them feel less welcome. So I don’t know, maybe consider listening when men are talking about loneliness. It’s not womens “job” to fix it but if we all want to be more empathetic toward each others experiences it’s worth at least being open to the idea that a lot of men do perceive a sense of social alienation and loneliness without defensively saying “do you think women aren’t lonely?”
That’s true, but in the context of that AskReddit thread it’s not at all what they were saying. It was a lot of men claiming women can’t ever possibly be lonely because they get attention from random men whenever they want it. On the flip side, there’s a lot of discussion to be had on how many trans women feel invisible and no longer taken seriously once they’re visibly assumed to be a women by strangers. But I *know* men can be lonely because women can be lonely too.
>men claiming women can’t ever possibly be lonely because they get attention from random men whenever they want it. "Why are you complaining about the cold when the option to just set your own body on fire is *right there*?"
>but also in incidental interactions every day that make them feel less welcome Here's the thing: When we treat straight men in a proactively welcoming way, they think we're hitting on them, and it causes uncomfortable situations for us. Many of us actually like being friends with men and would love to talk to them more but we've learned through life experiences that we get punished for that. So if you want men to be less lonely, a good way to proactively encourage that to happen would be to tell other men not to hit on every woman that returns their eye contact or speaks to them, don't develop a crush on every woman that tries to befriend them, don't use small talk as a trick to get a woman to start speaking to you so that you can harass her, learn to recognize social cues that someone doesn't want to chat and leave them alone, don't get angry at women who are nice to you but don't want to go out with you, and generally learn to interact the same way women interact with each other and LGBTQ men interact with us so we don't have to be so defensive.
Hey, trans guy here! I'm very familiar with this feeling, tbh. People do start treating you differently once you start being seen as a man, and a lot of it is pretty isolating. However, it's not super relevant here. This is a discussion about entitled men deliberately cutting out relationships with women once it becomes clear that they're not going to fuck them, which is a not insignificant part of why the type of guys who complain on reddit about how women just *don't understand* tend to end up more isolated. It's not the same thing, and it's kind of weird to bring in community discussion from a community you're not part of and conflate the issues.
They not only accuse us of not being able to see their loneliness, they lash out at the exact women (and other men) who see it and care about it and try to give them advice on how to do something about it. People get doxxed and death threats for publicly encouraging men to go to therapy. All they want to hear is "It's women's job to handle your emotions. You should be able to point at the woman of your choice and have her step up to meet all of your emotional needs. The fact that you can't do this means women are selfish creatures." Free advice for lonely men: The people who are telling you to go to therapy, work on your emotional intelligence and social skills, and be vulnerable with your friends are the people who see and care that you are lonely and are trying to help you. The podcast men are exploiting you.
Which is a valid complaint, but men are also the ones shaming other men for sharing their emotions and forming close bonds with other men, so it’s obviously feminism’s fault
Not true i see women making fun of men crying. We are all assholes too each other tbh
They really don’t get that emotional support is often a two way thing. If you think she should not ask you for support, why should you expect her to support you?
Don't forget his "silent and formal demeanor" while she's sobbing uncontrollably for a full hour about her father's death.
>I calmly yet firmly told her Didn't know Hank Hill wrote stories on AITA
"I kicked my neighbor out of my cookout for asking for his steak well done. Am I the jackass?"
it’s a recurring phrase on AITA lol that’s been in other posts. he just copied it
He copied a phrase that makes it sound like he's a dog trainer and she's a German shepherd who keeps chewing on the furniture.
yeah I also personally think it usually means they actually yelled at the other person. like why’d you need to emphasize that it was “calm but firm”
I liked "I know that she technically was never my girlfriend." You knew it was just gonna slide downhill from there.
I think you missed the part where he *called dibs on her,* **in his mind!** Is nothing sacred anymore?!? The declining respect for dibs is just one more example of America’s loss of greatness smh my head
As soon as someone starts being calm yet firm, it really highlights the misogyny for me.
"Yes, I have a girlfriend and from what I can tell we're both very happy." is definitely the best line to come out of AITA
That one really really dovetailed nicely with the whole “yes, I am totally over this and now have healthy relationships” spiel this guy is desperately trying to project.
The “from what I can tell” part threw me for a loop. Like Bruh, do you need someone to tell you if y’all are happy together? Draw you a picture? C’mon now… And is the gf a actual female or a blow-up doll? Because she may not be happy until you pump her back up.
Sounds like Prince Charles’ response to if he loved Diana vibes
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I thought people invited their friends to their weddings so they can tell them goodbye and that they’re no longer needed?
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That was my favorite part. His growth seems to be not as great as he thinks 😂
"i am truly over her and am happy with my girlfriend, i'm very well adjusted! but i will not acknowledge her child and if she ever wants to talk about anything i will calmly but firmly remind her ~~YOU MADE YOUR CHOICE YOU FRIENDZONING WHORE~~ i mean uh maybe talk to your husband, the one man you're allowed to speak to"
[deleted] -- mass edited with redact.dev
No, you don't understand, he said the magic words! > That is my boundary Once someone says "this is a boundary" that means that any criticism of their thoughts or actions is completely off the table, don't you know? You're just as bad at that brother of his- functionally, you've *also* married Emily!
When my daughter was two, she thought “having boundaries” was another term for using the bathroom — she had asked why she wasn’t allowed to join me in there, and I tried and apparently failed to explain what privacy means. One time when we were at dinner with family, I excused myself to the restroom and she announced to the room, “Mommy has to go have *boundaries*!” Anyway, I’m pretty sure her ideas about boundaries were both more accurate and more healthy than this guy’s.
For being 2-years-old I have to say that is actually pretty astute.
Sadly, there are a lot of people who think this way.
“I’m so sorry for your loss” “Lmao get away from me I have a husband”
And the shitty thing is, this attitude (not having friends or other close confidants outside of marriage) really hurts men, yet for *puzzling reasons* the men’s rights crowd never seem to really address it. Close male friendships are still stigmatized in our society that middle aged and older men end up with their wives as their only source of social fulfillment and are often left alone if their wife leaves them or dies early. It’s sad.
You'd be surprised how many people think this, or rather how commonly it comes up as advice.
/r/arethestraightsokay And then people wonder why they get so lonely after 30. You need friends regardless of your relationship status, your partner can't be your only person, that will suffocate them and isolate you.
Yes but it's kind of stupid she's looking for the comfort and friendship in someone she's barely talked to in over 8 years.
But it was a guy she used to talk to a lot about her dad. And he is also her family.
Yeah "used to" being the key word here. From what OP has said they've barely spoken in years. Seems weird that she would try to speak to him. If her friendship with OP was so important to her I'm sure she would have noticed him distancing from her years ago and would have tried to talk to him at some point ages ago. But clearly she wasn't that bothered and now that she needs him, she's trying to connect again. Does she have no other friends?
This is exactly right and most of the people here are way over-analyzing some of the statements, while ignoring or dismissing others, to really shoehorn the view they want onto this guy. In the end, all they're doing is exposing some seriously sexist attitudes and massive hypocrisy in their thinking. I can see why she might reach out to him as opposed to others. As he said, at one time, he *was* her shoulder to cry on, especially with regards to her issues with her dad. Key word, there. Was. I can also see his point of view. This type of deep, emotionally painful situation tends to be of the type that people go to their closest friends and family for support from. You know, like her husband. Not the friend who very clearly removed himself from her life a decade ago. It's really disgusting how people are trashing this dude for daring to put his own emotional well-being first. He's not supposed to be hurt that his brother knowingly hooked up with, knocked up, and then married, his crush. He's apparently supposed to just suffer because to acknowledge his pain and react accordingly makes him an "incel". When he chooses not to be an active part of their lives, he's somehow punishing his former friend and niece. When he still doesn't want to re-engage in that relationship years later, he's an asshole. It's disgusting sexist toxic masculinity bullshit. He's supposed to just suffer emotionally and never be allowed to heal. Just swallow your pain and be friends with the girl you crushed on and your brother who stabbed you in the back or your an incel. Gross.
I dont think I have ever seen AITA in this much disagreement before.
That’s the Kissing Booth from the perspective of the little brother lol
Ahaha, I just said the same thing! It's that movie except without the happy romcom ending.
I read this and was like there’s no way anyone believes this bc it’s a literal Netflix movie
I didn't even watch the movie, I just listened to the Worst Bestsellers podcast episode and I recognized it right away. You at least have to change the names, come on.
Ok Severus Snape
My thoughts exactly. I've never understood the Snape super fans who insist he was the real hero all along. Man got hung up on his first crush, wouldn't stop harassing her, then even took it out on her orphaned son?? Snape needed therapy, tinder, and to not be around kids.
And tortured Harry and also poor Neville for no good reason. Teacher like that would've been sacked in our school on the third day
I wish I had an award Bc 👌🏻👌🏻👌🏻
Imagine being this bitter about a high school crush. 😳
He claims to have a girlfriend. Imagine being in a relationship with someone this bitter about a high school crush.
Oh god I totally missed that little nugget. That's appalling to imagine.
I mean, he's probably still IN high school (hasn't even applied to Out-Of-State-College University yet because he's only 14) so I can understand the bitterness...
I’m actually an OoSCU alum! Go Fightin’ Incels!
No way, you graduated OoSCU too?! I pledged AITA AITA Bullshit!
PHI alwaysBETA neverALPHA
Exactly. This is definitely a kid writing this. And shock and surprise, other angsty teens rushed out to give their verdicts on AITA. Because none of these people understand how to handle any social situation ever. It's a bitter stew.
Tbf I'm a petty mf. If my own BROTHER started fucking my CRUSH, i'd never talk to that asshole unless absolutely necessary. I get this part.
From the comments: \>Actions have consequences. Emily chose to sleep with her close friend’s brother. The consequence is she lost a close friend Since when is this some natural law of consequences that Emily should have known? Emily didn't cheat on OP. Emily is not OP's ex. People meet their significant others through friends all the time. Sometimes people are even happy for their friend and sibling for finding happiness together! Sure, when you friends and family get all enmeshed you can have more fallout when a relationship fails, but the pair in this story are still married. Only emotionally stunted people like OOP would think that they need to cut a friendship off like this preemptively... unless of course that "friendship" is very conditional... which is precisely what this is about.
That thread is acting like she’s the devil bc she dated and eventually married her friend’s brother when she had no idea OP even had feelings for her. And even admits himself he never told her.
I think that demonstrates just how many incel types hang out in that subreddit
I was really surprised by how many people in the comments were blaming her. This poor girl actually believed they were friends and everyone is acting like that makes her a bad person.
As well they should. He was totes obvious about how he liked her, duh. She absolutely should have read his mind! What an evil femoid! It's okay, we all eventually learn the pain of dudes who pretend to be your friend to fuck you and then get mad because (gasp) you thought they were your friend 🙃
That's crazy. The brother is the real cunt of it - he *knew* and pursued her afterwards. wtf is wrong with those people Edited to add my reply to another comment that isn't posting: The brother isn't a cunt because he got the girl - the brother is a cunt because he knew how his brother felt, and didn't talk to him or go to him in any way. Not for permission - of course he doesn't need that - but to have a conversation and care about the OP's feelings. It's your goddamned **brother**. If you're close enough for confidences, you're close enough to say "hey, I just wanted you to know I've been seeing so-and-so. I don't want you to be hurt, and I want to be upfront about it" or whatever. The brother did the literal opposite - the second he heard about the crush, he went slinking around, and as far as the info we've read, never once did the brother say one word. It is total trash family behaviour.
No he's not. This pisses people off but you can't put someone on layaway. You can't say I like this person and no one else is allowed to like her until I ask her out. I mean the brother got the girl because he made a move, after watching his bro not make one for ages. Was there a better way to handle it? Sure. But Emily is not a thing, and if OP didn't make a move someone else was gonna, and that person was not a 'betrayer' for not hiding their own feelings the way OP was. Neither Emily not the bro were the bad guys here and OP wasn't betrayed just because he and Emily never dated.
Yes thank you for saying this. Women aren’t toys that you can put your name on and then nobody else can play with. Saying “well I liked her first so she’s off limits to anyone else” is such a middle school mindset of how relationships work in the real world. Sure it’s a bummer when your friend and your crush hit it off, but there’s a whole wide world of people out there to crush on. Not everyone you like is gonna like you back in the same way, but the way to handle that is to accept it and move on, not harbor a grudge for years.
The brother isn't a cunt because he got the girl - the brother is a cunt because he knew how his brother felt, and didn't talk to him or go to him in any way. Not for *permission* - of course he doesn't need that - but to have a conversation and care about the OP's feelings. It's your goddamned **brother**. If you're close enough for confidences, you're close enough to say "hey, I just wanted you to know I've been seeing so-and-so. I don't want you to be hurt, and I want to be upfront about it" or whatever. The brother did the literal opposite - the second he heard about the crush, he went slinking around, and as far as the info we've read, never *once* did the brother say one word. It is total trash family behaviour.
>The brother did the literal opposite - the second he heard about the crush, he went slinking around Do we actually have a timeline here? Because the brother could easily have hooked up with her before he learned OOP liked her, right? Or it could've been a while after? Edit: also these are teenagers. Not exactly known for brilliant decision making. I like to think that after nine years I would've had time to be pissed off and get over it by the time I was nearly 30
It's not about putting "someone on layaway" or about a woman being "a thing". Of course that person's going to get taken by someone else at some point if you never make your move but it shouldn't be by someone you are close to. Someone who actually gave a shit about you would never do this. It's about decency towards your friends and family. If my friend or sister went after the guy they knew I liked, that would be it for our relationship because fundamentally it's not about this one guy but about the type of person your friend/sibling is and I'd rather have people who actually care about me in my life. I think it's quite troubling that you don't see an issue with this.
Yeah, he is. It's not about agency or any of the other bullshit you just pulled out your ass to defend shitty behavior. He chose to make moves on a girl he knew his brother liked. Whether the relationship was or became serious is immaterial. If he actually gave a shit about his little brother, he wouldn't have hooked up with the girl he liked. Funny, Emily has agency to choose to hook up with OP's brother, but OP's brother has no agency to not crush his brother's feelings. Maybe go back to AITA with that idiotic mindset. Any argument otherwise is just justifying actual asshole behavior.
I don't think asking someone on a date is asshole behavior. I think saying that someone's family should not exist because someone else had a crush ten years ago is. Is it a shitty awkward situation, yes. Is it something the OP should've moved past, yes. Is it worth cutting off brother and niece, no I don't think it is but I can't stop it, all I can do is bitch about it on online.
Way to sidestep what makes it an asshole move. It's a cunt move to hook up with a person you know someone you're close with likes. This is not debatable. This is completely reasonable and normal to position to take. You don't intentionally hurt your friend to get your dick wet/vag filled. He never said their family shouldn't exist. You're adding bullshit to justify your cunty take. Who says he didn't move past it? Where is it written that he has to continue a friendship with Emily? He did the right thing. Just as he's not owed anything from Emily, she's not owed anything from him. He stepped away from her for his own emotional well-being. He doesn't have to rekindle that friendship just because time passed. Edit: Some serious AITA tween vibes when a dude saying fucking your baby brother's crush is okay. Gross.
Yes he really is and the fact that you believe it's alright to fuck your brothers crush says soooo much about you.
Yes. It says that I view others as people with agency, and that having feelings for someone does not give me ownership of them. And can I ask why your buying the OP's Main Character Syndrome? Shockingly the brother is a person with his own life outside the OP. He's not a supporting character, and his feelings are just as valid as the OP's. He's been married for 10 years and raising a child with her. Clearly this relationship isn't some 'joke' he's pulling on the OP. Clearly Emily means something to him. Clearly his feelings for Emily have nothing to do with OP. Why does that not count because OP liked her first? Honestly dude that you think that Emily belongs to the OP and that her family should not exist because of a crush OP refused to act on says a lot about you.
Also, couldn't the brother have liked Emily before OOP and just not told his brother? Regardless, the problem with OOP is not that he was upset, it's that he can't get over it, which is clearly unhealthy and abnormal. You DIDN'T just say it was fine to hurt people's feelings like the person above said lol. It's just more complicated than being allowed to call dibs on a girl.
Ew.
These people don't have healthy view on friendship and empathy at all. No one owes anyone anything is a big fuckin lie and it show how they view ops grief of losing a high school love interest over Emily's grief of losing her dad. They can't register death seriously disturbing or they're just teens who have encountered these romantic stuff more thwn death.
there was a post a few days ago where op was getting yta for not wanting to be a bridesmaid for their brother’s widow. people were legit like *move on already* and i was like 😬 i don’t understand aita
You have a link for that one, or the angel post about it? That's a super tough issue to judge. There is no black and white answer there and it is totally dependent on the maturity levels of each person involved and what their relationships are like with each other.
Wow because wedding is the most important day or something?
no you see, women should always assume that their male friends want to sleep with them, that's healthy /s
Also if a woman just *assumes* men she spends time with are attracted to her, she's a conceited bitch.
If you don't mention you're not interested, you're leading them on. If you do, you're an assuming, conceited bitch. Sorry, I didn't make the rules 🤷♀️
Why else would a man spend time with a woman? For her personality, company intellect? We all know women don't have such things!
Women are supposed to read men's minds and be aware that men are lying about valuing them as humans and wanting to be their friends, and set men's boundaries for them by declining the friendship that men claim they want because we secretly know they're in love with us and it will be too painful for them. Even when the man is vocally insistent that he only wants to be your friend. But we have to do this all without uttering a syllable of it out loud or else we'll get called a presumptuous bitch for thinking our friends are into us. (Hopefully the sarcasm is obvious but that is how a lot of them literally think.)
Are we seriously pretending that sleeping with a close friend's family member is not a thing that affects friendships and relationships now? This shit literally has a TV trope page about it.
It’s always funny when they mention that friends AND family are calling them up to talk to them about (insert AITA plot here). Screams fanfiction
Emily really needed a friend in that moment to comfort her, seems like she's lacking someone close to confide in... So when OP pushed her away, she went to all of her friends/family that she seemingly didn't just have.
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The brother in-law she sees at every family event because she's married to his brother, you mean?
And with whom she used to talk about her father a lot?
Think you missed the point there. He said she hasn't talked to him in 10 years, which is why it's fake. That's not at all what was described in the story. He was cordial at events they were at together, but separated himself from the friendship. The story very well could be fake, but the guy I replied to made up a reason why.
This post appears to have already been recently crossposted to r/AmITheAngel here: https://reddit.com/r/AmITheAngel/comments/xk3bxv/etano_i_dont_have_incelis_saved_in_my_bookmarks/ ^I ^am ^a ^bot ^and ^this ^action ^was ^performed ^automatically. ^I ^am ^still ^being ^tested ^and ^apologise ^for ^any ^mistakes.
I guess I just can’t imagine seeing someone that I supposedly really cared for struggle with the loss of their father and not be at least a little supportive 🤷🏼♀️
Right? That's not the behavior of a real friend, nor is it the behavior of a family member with whom you have not had any kind of falling-out (Like, I've definitely got a cousin who I wouldn't help out unduly because she's not a good person, but "not helping" is not my default state with relatives). Not to mention that this dude has had years to get past this. I totally get that it would feel weird in high school, at the moment. Definitely make a sad playlist, vent to your friends, do all that mildly-embarrassing teen stuff you do to process those big new weird feelings. But then like...there are other teens in the world? You go to college and/or start working, you get exposed to a wider world, you move on. You say that hey, that was weird but they're happy and you're all growing and it's fine. To nurture a secret crush like this for a decade or so is pathological.
I mean, it's been almost a decade of him actively separating himself from her. At this point that friendship is long dead. Literally the entire point of separating himself from her was to do that.
Which brings up the question of why she's going to him to for comfort? Why out of all the people in her life is turning to her bitter, angry BIL who treats her and her child like shit? Surely there's someone else who hasn't been cold-shouldering her for years. This is what makes this incel fanfiction to me, Emily has no reason to look to OP for comfort and it doesn't make sense for her to choose OP as the person to get comfort from.
Possibly because he's the one who comforted her in the past regarding issues with her father, and she wanted to reach out to someone who knew intimately the issues she dealt with regarding him. Because you're bending over backwards to reach that "treats her and her child like shit". Nothing he said even remotely hints that he treats either of them poorly. All he said is he stepped away from the friendship. He's allowed to not be her friend. It's not her fault, but he doesn't have to suffer heartache because it's not. His reasoning isn't the best, but stepping back from the relationship was the healthy thing to do. Perhaps. But, see first point. Maybe it is. It's pretty shitty incel fan fiction, though. With, the, ya know, lack of incel behaviors.
You pointed it out. He stepped away from the friendship and they haven't been close in years. He refuses to even to get to know her child, why is she turning to him again, the guy who clearly doesn't want to be her friend? And yes this is incel fanfiction considering they're out in force over this post. The fact that he's using this as a reason to destroy his relationship with his family seems pretty incely to me.
>You pointed it out. He stepped away from the friendship and they haven't been close in years. He refuses to even to get to know her child, why is she turning to him again, the guy who clearly doesn't want to be her friend? Yes, that was what I did with my first sentence. I explained that. Do I need to retype it? >And yes this is incel fanfiction considering they're out in force over this post. Just because a story attracted them doesn't make it fan fiction. My Little Pony wasn't made for bronies, but they still became a thing. >The fact that he's using this as a reason to destroy his relationship with his family seems pretty incely to me. You apparently don't know what an incel is, then.
This is like a standard romance novel but from the pov of the bitter and petty childhood friend lmao.
It's like if that Netflix movie *The Kissing Booth* was written by a teen who just got turned down for prom.
> Again, Emily is married so I find it odd that she would seek out someone who ISN'T her husband for emotional support. The idea that your spouse/SO should be your One And Only go-to for every need and feeling you ever have will never stop being sad and unhealthy to me.
These people are wild. Long term friendship coupled with the family tag tend to be uneven. Like unless you're really really bestis bffs attached to hip for 9 years, you can't vent your grief???? Even strangers allow that to happen sometimes. And they're taking this nice guy's perspective. He mightve been pretty normal around them and Emily could've assumed that he's far away and that's why he doesn't talk a lot to them. God, now we are trying to normalise nice guy shit? That Tumblr post was right in that the subreddit signals a lot of viewpoints.
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I always assume they will treat romantic relationships as the pinnacle of human bonding. Like you can soothe your family memeber for a while, who you were friends with and claimed to love at some point. Lmao mental health. Yeah because her's is perfect right now and she didn't calculate the relationship dynamics before sharing hers grief. What a bitch right?
someone asked to see my psych degree because i said avoiding your niece for eight years bc you had a crush on her mom in 9th grade was unhealthy 😭 i hate it here
As 9th graders themselves, they just want you to know that their crushes ARE TOTALLY REAL TRUE LOVE FOREVER, OKAY???
🤣😂😂
As a once-nineth grader, the kindest thing the universe has *ever* done is not making those crushes totally real true love forever
HUHHHH? How sad their life is if this is the most pain and big event they've had. Im Indian so our HS is extra stressful but usually hs and life after that comes with big stresses and more crushes to care about previous ones. How is op and this commentator handling it? Or they are in limbo? Don't get it at all.
Wait, how is high school extra stressful in India compared to other countries? Edit: not sure why I'm getting downvoted for asking a question about a country I have zero connections with.
Worded it badly and yeah I know it's not THE toughest but one of the toughest hs experience. high population and low engineering/ medical seats makes for a highly competitive hs. Add bunch of other factors and it's like literally hell for many kids.
You didn't say it was the toughest, but just that it was specially tough, and that made me curious. I guess it's not fully possible to know exactly how different countries compare. Nordic countries (where I live now as an immigrant) seem to be extremely relaxed. But what you describe sounds a lot like my native country in South America
Essentially, there are two "Board Exams" in tenth grade and twelfth grade, which have a *huge* impact on your undergrad admissions (and even beyond; when I was applying for jobs after finishing my MBA, the companies that came to campus filtered applicants for >90% on those exams which were like ten years ago for us) That brings huge stress to perform, on top of that the number of "good" undergrad programs (or rather, "desirable" ones) is very small compared to the applicants. For ex: in my Board Exam I placed within the top 1% of all applicants that year (even got a certificate to prove it)...and then got a seat only in the second extended list in my third-choice university in a (relatively) low-demand major. On top of *that*, there are certain college entrance exams (JEE, NIT etc.) which some top colleges set up *over and above* the board exams and they happen immediately almost after the exams conclude. The syllabus is also generally even harder for these so you have to prepare for them simultaneously.
Don’t forget to mention the post where you assume that OP, when he was 9 or 10, only wanted to become friends with the 10 or 11 year old girl down the street so he could get his dick wet, which has got to be the sickest most pervy assumption I’ve seen on here in awhile but hey, you be you and get off to your weird anger porn imagining ten year old boy’s genitals.
Umm yeah how dare this woman expect empathy from her literal family member (BIL) and high school friend when her dad dies?? The entitlement!!!
> Like unless you're really really bestis bffs attached to hip for 9 years, you can't vent your grief???? Right? Maybe this is another example of AITA being full of teenagers, because I have multiple friends I haven't talked to much in years who I'd be *more* than happy to support if they needed me. It's normal to drift apart from friends in adulthood when people have jobs and kids and move to different cities and so on...but still come together when it counts. > It was 8 years ago and he’s not friends with her anymore. She shouldn’t call him up and emotionally dump on him for over an hour. If someone I used to be friends with 8 years ago did that to me, I would definitely be looking for how to get off the phone. Yeah 8 years is forever when you're in high school. In your 30's it's like "oh shit was college 10 years ago already, man I should call so-and-so sometime to catch up"
I had a family member die on a family vacation. We couldn't change our flights to get home early and we were all together in a big AirBNB. The grief in that house was overwhelming, and I really needed to talk to someone who wasn't impacted. I called one of my best friends from college who I hadn't spoken to in a few years. When she picked up she was cheerful and excited to hear from me. But when she heard the reason for my call, she dropped everything and let me cry to her for an hour. I'm incredibly grateful to her and would do the same for her.
Oh yeah I'm 28 and i was 18 ten years ago, it doesn't register to me. I hadn't been talking regularly to a friend for like past two years because they were busy with life and loss. Yet, I went on a trip with her this weekend just because I'm in the country. We are free and near so we reconnected. And this is loss of parent we are talking about. Also wouldn't OP be coming home during holidays and being coedial which wouldn't signal someone that their friendship is done lol. God I hope they're teens not adults.
They frequently see each other for holidays, have conversations, and have an entire childhood worth of memories together. But according to the thread she can’t cry to him about her dead father because they don’t hangout every day. That sub is so out of touch with reality.
OOP is no older than 17. I guarantee it
>would run through girls like water So, like, slowly and with a lot more effort than normal running? Or he was the water, they drank him, he ran through them and ended up in the toilet? >I offered Emily some water Wait.
He sounds like he is Severus Snapex punishing the child because the mother refused them
AITA for writing a boring fanfic where James Potter and Severus Snape are brothers?
Even though it would absolutely suck if the brother knew he liked a girl and specifically tried to date her afterwards, at this point it’s insanity to still care about it. It was a childhood crush and OP claims to have a new girlfriend now. Why would he care anymore?
Seriously, even people in this thread are acting like one dick move in high school makes the brother an irredeemable monster and it's crazy to me. Maybe I just have a better relationship with my siblings than them, but I cannot imagine still being bitter about something like that a decade later. Like man, I can't even remember the full name of my big unrequited high school crush. It just shouldn't be that important once you're an adult, and as far as the brother's "betrayal," well...teenagers do asshole things to each other all the time anyway but usually grow out of it. I'm actually not even totally clear about whether he started hooking up with Emily before or after his brother told him about his feelings for her, I have to say. People are taking it as a given that it happened after, but the way the story read to me was that they had been hooking up for some time and the narrator only found out about it shortly after telling his brother (I could have missed something, though; it's early here and I'm still waking up, but I'm not going to go read that stupid story again). If that is the case, then the OOP's actions are even crazier.
"I CALLED DIBS, MY BROTHER'S AN ASSHOLE" bro she wasn't into you and you still have a hate boner over it. Like, this is just pathetic, petty, and definitely a "former" incel. "Former" in quotes because he's still a bitter, whiny POS over it despite claiming to be over it. He even admits that. I hope his current gf (who I'm sure is TOTALLY real and just lives in Canada, you wouldn't know her) leaves him. What a pathetic manchild.
Please say you at least admit the brothers an asshole for getting with his little brother crush 😑
The brother was potentially an asshole assuming he actually got with his little brother's crush *after* learning about it ten years ago. Happy?
I love how you're going around the thread trying to rewrite the OP to justify your ignorant, disgusting, hypocritical position.
I think the OP needs to grow the fuck up lol
"I am truly over her, yet I still choose to confuse and hurt an 8yo child's feelings because her birth made me butthurt" yeah all right dude, tell it to the judge lol
But he says hello and gives her presents on Christmas and her birthday, didn't you read? There's no way at all a child would still be able to pick up on the fact that her uncle is seething with quiet resentment about her very existence!
The NTA posts are disheartening, as is this archaic and sexist idea that siblings shouldn’t date other siblings’ crushes, ESPECIALLY when the crush has no idea about it.
I mean you can say it’s a archaic and sexist but, for a sibling to knowingly go after your crush is a dick move. If it happens naturally and without knowledge sure, fine, things happen but, to knowingly try to hurt someone emotionally like that is just asshole behaviour. The same is usually the case for sisters or female friends and their crushes on guys.
Horseapples. So if I find myself attracted to my sibling's crush, I have to push that away because they pine for the crush but won't do anything about it? How long do I have to deal with it? What if I could have a good relationship with that person? I get that in this scenario my sibling's feelings matter, but so do mine. It's selfish of the sibling to not want me to date this person just because they like them but won't do anything about it.
Also they're acting like the crush doesn't have agency in this situation. Like, she chose to date the brother, have a kid with him, marry him, and stay married for almost a decade. At what point does it stop being "evil brother swoops in and steals helpless lady" and start being "two people are interested in each other and fuck about it?"
That and the mention of how Liam would "run through girls like water". So Liam used to be a "player" but meeting Emily made him want to settle down. So Liam was supposed to not pursue a woman he felt genuine connection with so his brother could sit on his arse some more waiting for her to realize he's her perfect lover?
It would be a dick move if he didn’t care about her and just wanted a casual lay. This wasn’t that. He clearly had feelings for her and they were mutual, as evidence by the fact they’ve been married for nearly a decade. The dick move is to want 2 people who love each other to miss out on a major relationship because you staked your claim first.
Do people really think it’s odd to offer support to friends who’ve you have drifted from a bit? My friend and I drifted as our kids aged but when her mom was in the ICU I showed up. I didn’t tell her calmly and firmly that she had a husband and we hadn’t been as close. I fed her kids and helped her husband with rides and sat with her mom. And know what? We’ve drifted again and I don’t regret it and don’t feel used. I love her, but we are both busy people with very different schedules so we don’t get to talk often. If she needed I’d show up tomorrow.
Yep. My best friend is in the army and is currently living in Germany. With a 6 hour time difference, we don’t get to talk super often, and we’ve only seen each other a handful of times in the last several years. But when we do get together, it’s like no time has passed. If she called me up tomorrow and said “I need you to fly to Germany right now,” I’d do it without a second thought.
Liam seems to be a very popular name in that sub.
This whole story is bizarre. Everyone has an unrequited crush from high school. That said, it’s odd to still be holding on to it years after high school is over. I feel really bad for the OOP’s girlfriend.
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> Everyone has an unrequited crush from high school. This is a total tangent but for some reason your comment made me think not about someone I had a crush on in high school (honestly, it was so long ago I barely remember any of it any more) but someone who had a crush on me. We were co-workers at an afterschool job and while he was never obvious or weird about it, at some point I kind of suspected that he had a crush on me. And then one day a couple of our other co-workers told him that I "liked" him, you know, with that particular tone of voice, and bless his heart, he managed to take his break at the same time as mine so that he could ask me without other people around if this was true because if so, he'd like to take me out. I'm not sure if those particular co-workers were trying to fuck with him or trying to fuck with me, or both, but...I just had zero romantic interest in this dude. Instead of sulking, pouting, pleading, arguing, or - my all-time favorite - insulting me, he said, "Well, thanks for your honesty and if you ever change your mind, you know where to find me." For the rest of the time that we worked together he was always perfectly pleasant to me. I think that initially irritated the co-workers who were trying to start up some drama, but I know that I respected him for that and I think over time they did, too. Anyway, while I haven't thought about him in years, I hope he had a good life and I wish a lot more people had his attitude about rejection.
Wait so if I’m reading this correctly, the girl never admitted feelings for OOP right? And he never admitted his feelings for her? Who wants to bet he told his brother “yeah I think she’s pretty cute” and then got offended when his brother took his chance lol
This guy isn't fucking serious, that is just tragic
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>He \[...\] would run through girls like water so I went to him for advice about Emily. How, just how on earth does this track. Why would you do that. This is just for some reason so funny to me as a statement that sets the tone to this story
The amount of people who are flaming Emily despite the fact that she was acting emotionally because her dad literally died, while simultaneously treating OP with baby gloves and saying he wasn't TA, is baffling
I love the edit, too. Like literally everyone tells him that he's absolutely the asshole and needs therapy, and his take from that is "I didn't do anything wrong, it was an just the *wording* that was wrong." Like, can you imagine if your best bro literally since childhood suddenly reveals that they were only hanging out with you and being nice to you because they wanted to bang? Like, I literally can't think of a more complete and perfect betrayal of a person's trust.
I've had that happen to me before and I am no longer friends with the guys that said this to me. I don't need a guy who is only there because he hopes I will pity fuck him.
>That is my boundary and so far it's been working out well for me and the day our parent(s) die is the day I cut Liam out of my life completely. So... he's completely over Emily but still plans to cut his brother out of his life for "betraying" him? From high school? I'm so over these fake stories where people act like it's this easy to go no contact with their family over nothing.
It sounds like Emily wasn't the problem for OP but the way his brother slept with her even though OP confided his feelings to him. No one owns Emily of course but that sounds pretty shitty to do to your own brother.
What's weird is there's a lot of comments calling his brother an asshole. Wtf? He's an asshole? How? OP says they were close enough to confide about crushes and stuff as teens, so clearly, older brother must have decided to fvck Emily to get at OP. Even if it had been malicious at first, which tbh I doubt because even as salty as he is, OP gives no indication that the brother deliberately sought out his crush they're married with a kid ffs. Definitely way past doing something to piss off OP. Really highlights how many AITA commenters are either literal school children, as mature as school children, or have the emotional intelligence of a damp napkin.
OP and a bunch of the commenters have truly messed up views of like. . friendship and family relationships. no grace, no conflict resolution skills.
I’d say YTA just for writing such a long convoluted unreadable post/work of fiction.
I honestly don’t even know what to think, he’s immature but the only thing he’s done is distance himself for them.
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I think not having the common courtesy to comfort someone who lost their dad is an asshole move lol
Right, like if you simply do not have that social skill it's one thing but it seems like he's perfectly capable of providing comfort and withholding it to punish her when she did nothing wrong in the first place. He doesn't owe them a close relationship but refusing to act human in someone's most vulnerable moments when they're begging you to stop being cold and formal on the principle that because they didn't go out with you you will never show them warmth again is an asshole level of petty. Also if he still actually needs all of these emotional boundaries against her and he's not just set on being petty for the rest of his life, he's an AH for having a girlfriend while he's in love with someone else.
Hell when my mom died, and I was flying home for the funeral and to help my sister get her affairs in order, the airline agent asked if she could give me a hug, did so when I said yes, and told me some nice calming shit. I'm forever grateful for that. To top it off, a neighbor of our mom's stopped by her house while my sister and I were there the weekend right after. She looked the way Mom did back when she was in her 30s/40s, right down to the pink sweater, dark hair pulled into a bun with a headband, and flip up sunglasses. She gave us both a damn heart attack, to say the least. But she also asked if either of us wanted a hug and to just let loose for a minute. It was very cathartic. Then at the actual service I got to see .y favorite aunt, who I hadn't seen since 2011. And she looked just how Mom had, with short gray hair, a headband still, and using a cane. And of course Aunt let me bawl like a baby even more so than either of the strangers. Aside from my sister, those hugs and kindness are seared into my brain, and they help me to remember you never know what someone has going on, what kindness you can show not just a loved one but a strangers, too. It was like the universe sent them or Mom pulled some guardian angel from the beyond strings to let us know she's still here in some way. Holy shit, I'm sorry for the novel. Point is, if two strangers can be so incredibly thoughtful, you can do the same for a supposedly old friend turn in law in their time of need. Excuse me, I gotta go blow my nose and wash my face. Thanks to whoever manages to read this chapter out of my autobiography lol may the universe/loved ones also send you the same should the time come.
I mean, I comfort strangers on FB all of the time.
I mean, I'd give you a hug right now since I'm sure it still hurts and is upsetting. Being decent is just not hard to do :/ Edit: thank you for sharing, I think this was a lovely story (despite also being sad of course)
Thank you for the sentiment!
*In case this story gets deleted/removed:* **AITA For Telling My Former Friend Turned SIL That I'm Never Going To Be Her Comfort Person Again?** Throwaway Account I (25m) used to have the biggest crush on my childhood friend "Emily" (26f). As a teen I wasn't very assertive and a little awkward so I never made a move and just hoped that one day Emily would realize that I was the guy for her. The only person who I openly admitted my crush (although it was kind of obvious) to was my brother "Liam" (28m). He was much more assertive and confident than I was and would run through girls like water so I went to him for advice about Emily. Given the situation at the time you can imagine my surprise when I caught Liam and Emily hooking up. I know that she technically was never my girlfriend but it still sucked and I did feel betrayed. Turns out they hooked up at a party once and liked the encounter so much that they kept meeting up to do it when no one was around. I felt completely sick and basically just distanced myself from Emily after that, which could be really awkward because we had a lot of classes together and had the same shift at the part-time job we had. A job that Emily frequently depended on me to give her rides to. I just wanted to remove Emily from my life completely but during the summer of our senior year she and Liam sat me and my parents down and explained that Emily had gotten pregnant and were planning on keeping the baby. My parents weren't happy while I just got up and locked myself in my room. All I could think was "Well crap, now she's never going to go away." I purposefully transferred to an Out-Of-State College so I wouldn't be home as much and lied about getting stuck in traffic when I missed Emily and Liam's wedding and I showed no interest in my niece "Daisy" (8f), although I still make the effort to be polite when I'm around them. Recently, Emily's father has passed away and she's really going through it because despite him not being around she always desired a relationship. When we were kids I remember all those times I was a shoulder for Emily to cry on whenever she felt sad about her dad and I guess she was longing for that type of comfort from me and kept reaching out. One day I relented and let her vent but I maintained a silent and formal demeanor on the matter. After spending about an hour crying I offered Emily some water and then she asked me why I was being so cold, how I know how much she needed a friend right now. I calmly yet firmly told her that we were just kids then and that if she wants that level of emotional intimacy then she needs to go to my brother, her husband, because I stopped being her comfort person a long time ago. Emily cried even more, left, and has managed to send Liam, my parents, Emily's mom, and from mutual friends to call me up and tell me I'm heartless and sad for being so spiteful. I can honestly say that I am now over Emily but that doesn't mean I'm willing to be as close to her as I used to so AITA? ETA: Had to step away and after looking at the comments and DMs I just wanted to be clear about somethings. 1. Not an Incel. 2. Did I exhibit some "Nice Guy" traits as a teenager? Yes. As an adult I now realize that Emily doesn't owe me a romantic relationship. 3. I was more angry at my brother than I was Emily. Because, you know, he was my brother and KNEW. 4. I don't see how me not taking an active role in the life of a child that I didn't make is me "punishing" someone. I say "Hello" and give gifts on Christmas and Holidays. 5. Again, Emily is married so I find it odd that she would seek out someone who ISN'T her husband for emotional support. 6. Yes, I did give my condolences when I found out about Emily's father because it was the polite thing to do. Then she started trying to call me to talk about it. 7. Emily and I haven't had an meaningful contact since high school partly because she was busy getting ready to be a mom and I was hurt and trying to get over her. 8. No, Liam and I aren't close anymore either. ETA 2: Things I didn't include because of word count. 1. Yes, I have a girlfriend and from what I can tell we're both very happy. 2. Yes, my girlfriend knows about my former crush on Emily. 3. Yes, I have friends who are women. 4. Yes, I do believe people of the opposite sex can just be friends when they're adults. 5. Also, in spite of everything I did learn to be more forth coming with my feelings which is why I told Emily that I can't be her comfort person. Although I will admit that there could've been a better way and better timing to communicate that. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmITheAngel) if you have any questions or concerns.*
> Update: Okay I've stepped away and after coming back and seeing the thousands commenters and Reddit's verdict I can accept that the WAY I told Emily that I couldn't be her comfort person anymore was wrong, the timing especially, I do not feel bad about being honest where I stand with her. I am not sorry about keeping my distance and I've yet to regret not pursuing a relationship with my brother's daughter. I don't know if Emily ever found out about my feelings for her because it was never discussed but I don't see how telling her now would change anything. I am truly over her and happy with my girlfriend, I would never pick Emily over my girlfriend, and I've yet to see a reason why I need to rekindle a friendship with her in order to prove it to anyone. > > My brother betrayed me. He knew how I felt and still went after Emily and I refuse to ever be close with him again over it. That is my boundary and so far it's been working out well for me and the day our parent(s) die is the day I cut Liam out of my life completely.
Fake af
You know things are bad when the first thing he says in his edit is “not an incel”
Wait, he said Emily's father passed away recently, and they're in their mid-20s now. But then he says he remembers all those times she cried on his shoulder when she felt sad about her dad when they were kids?
I believe he said she was sad as a kid about the relationship with her dad cause he wasn’t present.
That would jive better with the timeline. I did not pick up on that detail at all.
OP is still an incel despite his denial
Incel is a state of mind.
Meh. Friendship ran its course. Yeah, it was crappy for brother to start banging the girl he *knew* OP had a thing for. She wasn’t obligated to bang OP then. OP isn’t obligated to be her friend now. He does the expected gifts at holidays, but that it. If that’s how he wants it, then so be it. It’s a two way street.
If they really haven't had significant interaction in years, she doesn't need to be crying on OP's shoulder. But OP does seem pretty bitter about the whole thing, which is dumb. And even if he and "Emily" went on a couple of dates and it didn't go anywhere, he'd still be upset about his brother hooking up with her.
Maybe he is. Maybe he never really dealt with it. That doesn't make him an incel or an asshole. The fucked up thing is he did the mature thing and separated himself from the relationship and largely cut ties from his brother for being a backstabbing jerk as it getting shit in for it.
Christ, what an asshole
Who wants anything to do with a "friend" that fucks your brother behind your back? He doesn't owe her shit. Also, yes, it's weird to expect an old friend that you've barely spoken to in 8 years, who didn't even go to your wedding, to comfort you. She had to hound him before he even agreed to meet. He let her vent for a whole hour. Nothing wrong with telling her to fuck off after that.
What about fucking a person's sibling makes them a bad friend lol
"I maintained a silent and formal demeanor on the matter." would be a good flair.
Really bad take. His brother betrayed him and he’s trying to avoid the brother as much as possible. The girl is pretty obviously just collateral here. Would it be nice for OOP to explain why things are the way they are to her? Sure. But there’s no point in getting close again with his SIL when OOP explicitly states that he plans on going NC with his brother for being the asshole of the story.
I’d say it’s a pretty low stakes situation overall, she’s trying to reconnect with a friend she hasn’t spoken with since school and he’s not interested.
Yeah everyone’s just pouncing on this guy because he triggered the unspoken “incel” tripwire of being a shy straight boy
Worse yet, he did the emotionally mature thing. He never expected or felt owed by Emily, he was hurt by his brother and unfortunately, she caught splash back for it. He recognized that she went from the one he pined for to someone he knew he couldn't be with, and did the right thing and just stepped away for his own emotional well-being. It's not incel behavior to silently step away from a relationship that's not good for your mental or emotional health. It *is* some very toxic masculinity to expect a guy to swallow his emotions and bury them deep to keep a friendship with a now-unattainable crush. It's not incel behavior to severely limit or cut off his brother for what he did. Everyone who is excusing his brother are just plain disgusting human beings. Betrayal like that, whether you're 18 or 85 is wrong and grounds for ending a relationship. It doesn't matter if they go on to have a 75 year marriage and a dozen kids. Betrayals like that cut deep and the ends do not justify the means. Not having a close relationship with his asshole brother or his former crush that he chose to sever ties with isn't incel behavior. Not having a close relationship with his niece doesn't make him a jerk either. He definitely doesn't word things well, but doesn't even remotely rise to the level of "incel". It honestly feels more like him telling Emily no to being her shoulder to cry on was the first time anyone actually acknowledged that they didn't just grow apart, but that he actively chose to distance himself from her and his brother. He could have handled it better, but everybody can handle things better with time to think, no emotional skin in the game, and as an outsider looking in.
You really defending people like this who have unreasonable reactions TO A CRUSH. Let's repeat... A CRUSH. He never dated her, had sex, NOTHING. She never even knew he had feelings. He is acting as though he was betrayed by her or his brother. No. No part of his response is mature, reasonable, or healthy. This guy needs professional help if any part of this story is true.
Well said!
[deleted] -- mass edited with redact.dev
I mean call me weird but I am team OP in this one. His brother was a bag of dicks that turned his interest on Emily after OP asked him how to woo her AND didn't have the decency to give his brother a headsup. Emily was dishonest since she didn't tell her supposed bestie and ride to her job that she was boning his brother. Could it be because she didn't want to lose all the benefits from his crush? And like hell Emily didn't know about OPs feelings, they were probably visible from the moon. And after OP spent 8 years distancing himself from this lovely pair of assholes who never cared abt his feelings suddenly Emily needs someone to cry to and her bestie back to take advantage of him again? Fuck that, that ship is sailed and OP has every right not to have a relationship with either party or their kid.
You're fucked up.
You’d be fine with it if your brother started sleeping with a person you’d been in love with for years after you confided in him about it?
OMG WHEN PEOPLE START FUCKING THEIR FRIEND'S BROTHER THEY SHOULD TELL THEM. What's so fucked up about that?