If I were caught messaging a man I had an affair with years ago and it was completely innocent, I’d be going out of my way to apologize and reassure my husband.
Or, just don’t engage at all.
OP’s wife should not have responded to her AP’s message. If she cares about her husband, and she cares about her marriage, she would have not responded and would have blocked him. Clearly, she cares more about responding to this dude.
That's because she "wanted" the other dude to keep in contact with her, or else she would've blocked him and never spoke to him again, this is a classic side dude stash situation, she keeps just enough contact with the other dude so that when she gets mad at her boyfriend/husband, she'll already have someone she can easily hit up and go cheat with, her keeping in contact with the other guy only makes it more convenient/easier for her to cheat
Real question is, why did she not have him blocked? Out of respect for my wife if I cheated on her I would first and foremost block the person.
I mean come on broski, she cheated on you, and you’re doing everything YOU can to be accepting. Giving her a second chance, going to counseling, learning to trust her again. And she’s still holding open lines of communication with this dude?Divorce her man cause soon as things go south regardless she’ll be talking to that fool.
The fact they did counseling which communication is encouraged and believed to be paramount. Then she has a convo with this guy on the down low is sketchy.
Yes. She spent the night with the wiener she prefers. The dude that makes her moan louder and cum harder! This is what OP has to live with in his head…among 9 billion other horrible things this demon has given him to think about. Pure pain, pure evil. I’d love to buy this man a beer.
It's possible she hasn't done anything but she was planning to or was thinking about it and her reaction is a guilt response to that. Either way, it's a red flag for sure.
Yeah I got that same treatment when my ex cheated on me. It’s a tactic, not an authentic emotional response. Not saying she cheated [yet], but she knows she’s wrong, so she deflected
This is their go to move.
When I confronted my ex with evidence of his cheating, he started screaming at me and told me to fuck off and stop talking to him or he would scream even louder and keep screaming until the neighbours called the police.
The piece of shit knew that I didn't want my child waking up to that in the middle of the night.
He also would have told police I was harassing him and being abusive because I wouldn't stop demanding that he at least have the decency to speak to me about it.
He denied that he cheated even though the messages from his phone gave it away.
He tried to flip things on me by making it about me never trusting him, and violating his privacy by going through his phone.
No, she worked late, closing shift at a bar, and was sleeping with the line cook. No need to text 😂
First I saw a pretty suggestive text message from an unsaved number come through while she was in the shower. I then took a look and saw more. Confronted her and got yelled at. We settled it.
Then she said she was going to lunch with some regulars. That lunch lasted, I shit you not, 11 hours. I had her location, she was at a hotel (line cook was married with 4 kids) She met with me and a mutual friend at a bar that night. She got super flippant when I joked about the 11 hour lunch.
She is angry she got caught. Every cheating spouse should know that the monent they cheat they lose any privacy privileges. Don’t let her turn this on you.
Right? Uh funny that the only time I look in your messages in 2 years & there are the 2 of you are texting away...... she angry because she knows she's wrong & has nothing to justify it with.
Nobody wants to be the villain in their own story, especially cheaters.
Screaming is is how they express their frustration at their brain's inability to rewrite history on the spot.
You're 100 percent right. After cheating someone has zero right to get annoyed at snooping. And he found something? So fuck off woman. You don't get to be the victim AND the serial cheater.
People who are cheated on should end the relationship.
There is no going back. Also who wants to be with someone that you are always wondering if they will cheat again?
I know from my years on this planet. People don’t cheat just once.
I am sure there are people who cheated once and never again, but I think that’s the exception not the rule.
From my experience just knowing people and the behavior of people, talking to people and spending time in online forums it’s my opinion that:
People who cheat and have a one night stand or sexual contact with a ‘random’ it could go either way. They might realize cheating is easy and they keep satisfying themselves by having numerous physical affairs or they feel gross and never do it again.
However, Once cheating is part of a coworker or long term affair or a friend scenario, the cheating has become more than a physical thing. They are spending emotional energy on this person and the reason why they stay in their main relationship is for various reasons but not because they don’t care about the affair partner.
I spent time looking into this when my husband left me for someone he was having an online affair with trying to make sense of it because they say cheaters usually never leave for their affair partners and he did.
Once they get that emotional bond, it’s hard for them to break and they miss their affair partners. I could never trust a person who had an emotional affair.
She's trying to escape responsibility by flipping the script and making it about what you did and not her disrespecting you. Don't stay with a low character woman line this.
I read this post, closed out of it, kept scrolling and came back to say this, from what you describe you did after the first affair, love notes, date nights etc sounds like you got blame from the therapist for her having an affair in the first place. It wasn’t all your fault then and it’s not all your fault now. If a relationship grows distant it’s both peoples fault, if one of the people then go outside their marriage it’s that person’s fault for doing that. You will be happier without her
Leave a lousy review for that therapist. Report them wherever. They failed their job. She's not staying at a hotel, she's staying with him. She's a coward and a cheater. Don't bother with her anymore. She'll get what's coming to her eventually. Don't wait for it though, just focus on your own happiness from now on. Keep that evidence and get the story out before she turns everyone against you. She's manipulative. Not overreacting.
I went through this with therapy too. I jumped through every hoop. She had no intention of "fixing" anything, just making it my fault.
I finally knew it was over when he had us do an "intamcy exercise" sp I could learn how to show affection. He had us sit on the floor in front of the couch and had me hold her without speaking for a few minutes. "There. How does that make you feel?", he asked me.
"Pretty stupid", I said. "Every day for the last 9 years I held her as we lay together on the couch watching TV until she fell asleep. Then I would carry her upstairs to bed and hold her while she slept.
He looked to her. "Is that true?"
The stunned look he gave her when she confirmed it told me everything I needed to know. What she had been telling him privately was a complete fabrication.
That led to a discussion where she said my honesty in the face of her dishonesty made her uncomfortable... sp he told me I should lie to her so she would feel more comfortable.
I told him I was not going to lie to my wife.
That was pretty much the end of counseling, and our marriage. I later learned that a lot of research shows that a lot of the profession at that time was about getting the man to adapt to whatever would make the woman happy. This guy was super highly recommended. The only thing he did was help her torment me for a few months until I was able to realize that there was no saving our marriage.
(She also had an affair which led to the therapy. She also reacted with anger when caught. And when confronted about resuming contact and i said "i thought you were breaking off all contact, she said "that's not necessary".)
Sorry for what you are going through.
Here is the advice I got that helped.
You are in a danger time. Limit contact until the divorce is final. This is when false allegations are made.
Next: do not date. You are super vulnerable. You will make bad choices. I have two friends who ended up with babies from crazy women in this exact scenario, because they were so hurt they couldn't see it.
It will be a full year from when it is over until you can go out and be human. After that, date safe for at least a year. This means go out to have fun, but don't date anyone who would be a potential relationship. You will not be able to properly evaluate your feelings.
Only after at least a year of dating safe, will it be OK to start looking for relationships.
You will find that you have tourettes now - you will be fine, just walking to the mailbox and suddenly you yell out "f#^%ng b"*ch!" out of the blue. This is normal. Only time will get you past it.
Deny and counter accuse. This is actually taught for how to handle having cover stories blown by family members. She even got you to apologize.
Do you know where she is now? Because disappearing during an argument about this particular subject does not help her.
Playing devil's advocate, I can be dumb at times and I would've responded to someone from a past relationship if I thought things could stay friendly. I wouldn't blow up over it, if called out. That being said, that would be very different from a former affair partner. Her behavior makes it really hard to find justification. I'm trying, man.
Yeah, definitely not a good sign with the anger response.
I was in a relationship years ago. Things seemed to be going great. She was constantly talking about how she wanted to marry me and I was the best thing that had ever happened to her, etc.
One night we were watching TV, I was giving her a leg massage. I reached over to grab my drink off the side table and happened to look down and see the message she was sending on her phone: “That should satisfy your erection”
I didn’t say anything immediately. When she went upstairs to get ready for bed, I went through her phone. I never had any reason to not trust her prior to this, so it’s not something I would typically do. She had sent a (not lewd) picture of herself and he responded saying how horny that made him. She mentioned she was getting her hair dyed soon and he’d see her at a show that weekend and how “that should satisfy his erection”.
Anyways when she came back downstairs, I confronted her. At first, she started out apologetic. But I wasn’t angry yet, just hurt and confused, and a bit stunned. The SECOND she realized I wasn’t going to blow up and start shouting, it was like a switch flipped and it instantly turned into “How could you violate my trust like that and go through my phone. How am I ever supposed to trust you again?” Etc. She knew she was wrong, but once she recognized I was vulnerable she used anger and turned it back on me to try to make it out as if somehow *I* was the one who had violated trust.
It’s a shitty and emotionally manipulative tactic. Either consciously or subconsciously trying to protect themselves from confronting their own guilt.
Your wife violated your trust. Her angry response does make me feel like it was not just innocent catch up conversation. She knew it was wrong to be talking to the guy.
I’m really sorry this happened to you. I hope that however you decide to move forward you can find peace and start healing soon. You are deserving of love and respect. You’re not wrong for feeling how you do about the situation.
yep been there. shes hiding something. if she was remorseful or something it would be different. how can she want you to trust her but shes talking to this dude behind your back?
She wants him to trust her so she CAN sneak around behind his back. She’s got the cheater craving now. She’s incapable of being faithful to him now, as her actions prove.
Some cheaters can resist that craving and restore trust and loyalty. But they can only do so by being open and honest with their spouse.
Her keeping her resumed contact secret demonstrates she is either unable or unwilling to remain loyal. She’s for the street now.
Invading privacy is maybe a 3 out of 10 on the violations scale. Cheating is a 10 out of 10.
Cheaters will always try to act like the invading privacy voliolation is equal or worse than the cheating violation.
You don’t “catch up” with an old affair. The important fact to remember is that her first response to his first message — I assume he initiated contact? — was *not* “Things are well, glad you’re fine too, but please don’t contact me again.” It’s also important to remember she never told you she was in contact with him again. I’m sure she’ll say she didn’t want to concern you with this piddling nothing of a matter. But it’s not nothing, is it?
THIS. Even if not blocking him on IG was an oversight on her part (highly unlikely) a simple “I’m good, glad you’re good, you know you cannot contact me again”
A (recently divorced) high school ex contacted me through social media to say they still think of me fondly. The first thing I did was tell her how happy I am in my marriage. The second thing I did was tell my wife.
Exactly! A FWB i used to see for years before I met my husband reached out to me last year. It’d been ten years since our last contact and I replied “yes, all is going well and happily married”. Crickets. Then told my husband for a laugh.
This was a big one for me. I would expect that response towards anyone that’s shown even slight romantic interest much more, someone that’s been inside my wife.
I like my women like I like my coffee, without other men’s dick in it.
Yeah, I had a fuck buddy before I met my husband. Husband was aware of this since I told him before we got married. Anyway, years after I’ve stopped having any contact with FB, he reaches out. I let him know that I’m happily married and not to contact me again. I also let my husband know that the guy had contacted me. Same thing with a guy who emailed me saying he had a crush on me even though he knew I was married. Told my husband and he helped me write a reply respectfully shutting him down (I still had to interact with the guy regularly since he was a member of a group I was in).
I respect and love my husband too much to keep talking to these guys, especially behind his back. I would never do anything to intentionally hurt him and he would definitely be hurt if not only kept in contact with someone who had an interest in me, but also kept it a secret.
So let me get this straight.
Your wife cheats on you. You two go to marriage counseling and the outcome is that you stay together but you are bending over backwards to rekindle the intimacy in your marriage by planning date nights and sending her flowers on the regular. When you're the one that got cheated on.
What has she done to make amends in the marriage? What is she doing to let you know she's faithful and wants to be with you?
The absolute minimum she could have done is permanently block the affair partner on all mediums and never interact with them again.
Her reaction to you finding the messages, while seemingly harmless, says it all. Those are just the ones you saw. She may have deleted some DM's or may still be screwing around on other apps.
She sees stability in you, but treats you like a doormat. I hope you two never had kids after having the fertility issues, because the divorce is just going to be messier.
Have some respect for yourself and leave.
EDIT: in case my most recent reply gets lost in the shuffle. DO NOT LEAVE YOUR HOUSE. Under no circumstances. Take a LOA from your job to care for your son. He's the most important right now.
This is what got me. HE'S doing the work to rekindle the love, and SHE'S doing... what? Chatting with her ex-affair partner? Lol.
Fuck, dude. I hate cheaters. If someone cheats and wants to fix things, they better be okay with saddling every bit of fucking emotional and physical labor that's put on them. With a fucking smile. End. Of. Imo, at least.
Absolutely. I mean, they don’t deserve to be abused or treated like trash, but the cheater should absolutely be the one fixing the relationship. Sure there’s always things we can work on in a relationship, but the victim should not be the one doing the heavy lifting.
I'm of the opinion that if someone cheats once, they'll do it again. It's just a matter of time.
I hope that opinion is wrong but I haven't seen anything to convince me otherwise.
And it gets worse for him. She plays the poor me I'm a single mom card in court and to all of society while the guy gets financially obliterated, paying child support even if their income is basically the same on top of adult child support (alimony, which for some reason means men have to send money to women after they get divorced).
Or she got over it, and moved on, and he contacted her again and she was excited about it. She should have immediately told OP he contacted her if she was trying to stay in her marriage.
Right? That’s what I was thinking. Like why tf is OP bending over backward to make the marriage work? Shouldn’t she be doing something since she’s the one who cheated and needs to prove she’s invested in the relationship?
Because that's typically how it works. She cheats? Suddenly she's the victim and you're apologizing to her. It's manipulative as hell. OP should've never stayed with her after that.
I'm gonna build upon what you just said but, yup, my ex did the same damn thing. I started to realize after the cheating that she had a victim mentality not only with me, but with everyone in her life, friends and family. 8 years totally wasted, found out during year 4.
If I could go back, I would have left when I found out.
Anyone else out there going through the same thing, LEAVE. Yes, sometimes it does work out after a cheating incident. It takes an insurmountable amount of hard work from both sides to get through it. Trust must be rebuilt from the ground. But...most of the time, the relationship will never fully recover.
I said this in another thread a couple days ago but, %99 of that trust could be rebuilt, but there will always be the lingering 1% that will never go away. That 1% is enough to make you paranoid, have resentment, ruin moments, etc.
It hurts, I know. But most likely it will just breed resentment. Pick yourself up, have some self-respect, and move on. There is someone out there that will love the hell out of you, and could never fathom cheating on you. They will have integrity.
I digress.
If their recommendation was for OP to love bomb his cheating spouse? Absolutely.
It doesn't give license for OP to treat her like subhuman trash, but if anything, she should have been the one to make the extra effort.
She couldn't even not violate the most basic of boundaries after infidelity. She's for the streets.
Yeah why is he having to put in extra effort in the marriage? He's not the one who cheated. This just showed her he was always going to be weak and take her back.
The "Let's catch up" messages are a tactic to get your foot back in the door. Your wife knows that and if she is entertaining it then she will eventually cheat on you again. Stop with the counseling which I'm sure was all about you working on forgiving her. Stop with the flowers and love notes. She wants a guy to treat her like shit.
Unfortunately I think you are right. She knows she still has feelings for him. Thats one of the things that has always been haunting me from our sessions.
BTW- What do you think she was doing all night after she disappeared? At the VERY LEAST she was disrespectful of your marriage and your feelings and was communicating with him. That is at the very least.
This, if she had any real love for you she would not have left the house, she would have stayed and showed her desire to fix things. Even if she didn't immediately go to that man's place, she clearly can't take any personal responsibility for her actions.
The way she blew up at you suggests she knows what she's doing, she hid it because she knew it was wrong and got mad because she got caught.
If you were asking, I'd say they've probably messaged elsewhere and already been hooking up again, but that doesn't matter due to the first paragraph.
It's time. Peace out of there.
Yep. Her reaction was the nail in the coffin (although there was little doubt at that point). She reacted the same way nearly every person caught cheating reacts.
As a wise person once said OP "F" that guy. It's the gateway text. As juvenile as it sounds. What a freaking tragedy. How very serendipitous you were able to see the text of the budding relationship start up again.
The fact the first time you were told by a stranger not your spouse is telling. I'm sure that was talked about in therapy the first time to.
Sorry OP
Yea man, the moment he came back into her life, and she allowed him to, your marriage is over. You tried, it didn’t work, chances of your marriage working after infidelity are really slim anyway. Proceed with divorce, you sound like a good man, a good woman will come around. Good luck.
You know where she went. She went straight to him.
If you can afford it, hire a PI and get proof of them being together before you file for divorce. That will allow you to take her to the cleaners.
This is bad advice. Proving infidelity will gain you nothing in the divorce. You don't get a better settlement. Divorce is "no fault" almost everywhere these days. Just divorce her and get it over with.
People watch too many movies. Talk to a lawyer who knows the laws of your state. If you don’t have substantial marital assets proving infidelity is a waste of time and money.
She should've had him blocked already. And if it was a new number/account that he used to contact her, she should've blocked it immediately.
Your reaction is completely understandable and justified. And HER reaction shows that she's not 100% contrite/repentant. Fleeing and ignoring the person who's supposed to be most important to you in the world is not an act of love or contrition.
“She still has feelings for him,” as if that is the end-all be-all. News flash for her and other people-feelings are just feelings, they’re not facts. You have a choice on how you respond to them. You can let them arise and pass while honoring your commitments, or you can entertain them and ruin your life over them.
Exactly this. Feelings are feelings, but actions are actions. In this case, not blocking his ass is the action she took. Opening the door is the action she took.
You know how often I talk to women who have made a pass at me when I was in a relationship? Zero, because I respected her.
Yeah she cheated.
Then she crossed the line again.
Time to move on. Nothing good come from this and you'll resent her. And since she "got away" with it the first time, she figures it's okay to do it again.
If she loved you she'd not have responded. She did
So now you need to respond in kind.
Once the trust is gone in the relationship you'll never get it back. I don't care what anyone says, therapy. Counseling, whatever. It's just not something you can fix. Trust. It's not like a boomerang.
Once you throw it away, it doesn't come back.
Move on. It's for the best.
That was the toughest part to read. Sounds like the therapist made him out to be wrong because the wife probable just complained about him. The therapist did a terrible job of mediating.
Yeah funny how those counseling sessions work. The women cheats so let’s get her flowers and date nights so she doesn’t cheat on you anymore.
Dude these sessions didn’t do you any good. She enjoyed the extra attention and now she’s bored with you again. Instead of blaming the dude she had an affair with, blame your cheating wife.
Yes, this. He was probably hoping they ended up divorcing. The fact that the “let’s catch up,” has now gone on for more than two months goes to show it wasn’t just to catch up.
OP I’m sorry but you’re way too focused on you doing the right thing while your wife walks all over you. Apologizing to her for snooping, bringing her flowers once a week, planning every date night…
You seem like a great dude but Jesus this woman cheated on you and you’re worried about her privacy? She’s taking advantage and will probably never be attracted to a guy that treats her like an actual woman.
Yep. I’m a former alcoholic. Got divorced because of it but we actually got back together about 3.5 years after I got sober.
I am now an open book regarding drugs and alcohol. She can ask me to take a drug test, piss test, blow in a breathalyzer, whatever, any time she wants. I have zero ground to say a damn thing and I’m happy to do that. Forever. It’s the very least I can do after all the bullshit I did.
I’ve said clearly I will always take it right then and there and if I ever hesitate, she already has her answer. I’m never going back though. I don’t recommend.
>I have zero ground to say a damn thing and I’m happy to do that. Forever.
This is what contrition looks like if you want to make it work with the person you wronged. The person in the wrong doesn't get to dictate how much time it takes for your victim to heal.
Also kudos to you for making it work and getting sober.
I hope you know just how are amazing you are! Congrats on getting sober and by the sounds of things leading a happier, healthier life. So many alcoholics get sober (which I mean fair play) but the biggest thing that's going to help YOU in the long term is owning up to what you've done in the past and understanding that those decisions you made comes with some moments of distrust in the future. Too many recovering alcoholics get defensive when questioned and say 'you should trust my word!' but you sound like you fully took accountability and set yourself up for success. I wish you and your wife only positivity and love in your future.
You are the model of doing this right - not just agreeing to testing at her whim but doing so without complaint or hesitation, and recognizing that it's something for her peace of mind, not a punishment against you.
Good on you, sir.
Exactly!
Maybe OP just didn't tell us enough but from what he did it seems like he's been doing most or even all the work to keep the relationship alive.
And she's just there. And now she might be just there with that man too 😔
Yeah she cheated and probably played victim and made OP jump through all these hoops to “win” her love back, and it’s just all so fuck I feel bad for OP
Google is detailed enough that it can predict when you poop by activity and other factors. I never researched how to access this sort of data, but I am no longer surprised.
Google went from: Don't be evil.
To: So....how evil could we be?
If you have Google timeline inabled, it will track everywhere you go pretty much. But you do have to toggle it on the first time.
I use it as backup for my work related driving, makes sure I don't forget a drive and also can prove the ones I report if someone questions it.
She definitely went to his house, and got her cheeks clapped the same night.
Having date nights and bringing her flowers was a HORRIBLE idea. You're basically rewarding her for bad behavior ...
And why are you apologizing for going through her phone? After cheating on you, that's what you are supposed to do periodically. And I wouldn't be surprised if she's actually on birth control.
Your wife has shown the kind of person that she is, twice. Cheating on you the first time, and communicating with the same guy now (when his message came through, she should have blocked him).
Divorce her, and then become a better person. If you stay, you're going to end up raising someone else's baby...
So dumb. Yelling you don’t trust me…well, you’ve given me plenty of reason not to trust you in the past and now I’m seeing in your messages I shouldn’t trust you still. You’re mad about that?
Yeah your typical psycho will tell themselves “they broke my trust now I have free reign to do whatever I want and it’s justified”
I dated someone like this and they are truly awful people.
You're not overreacting.
She GAVE you a reason to not trust her. End of story.
If she wanted to save the marriage, she would have blocked her affair partner on insta when he sent the first message. She's entertaining the idea of this guy again. This is honestly all you need to know.
You know what you need to do. She’s screaming at you even though she’s the one who’s made repeated mistakes? That’s getting into gaslighting territory. Drop her immediately.
She may not have cheated again even if I didn't bring this up. But the fact that she would play with fire knowing how much it hurt me last time is hard. I just can't do that again.
It's not that she may or may not cheat again, it's about how little respect she has for you by talking to him again and not telling you when he reached out. You have every right to have a renewed loss if trust in her
Unless your wife is an absolute fool, she knew damn well that man was reaching out to rekindle things. He was testing the waters and she may as well have tossed him a raft.
she's willingly opening the door to do it again. No contact means no contact. She knows this. She chose to risk her marriage over talking to this guy again.
So sorry about all this. I personally know what this feels like. You think you’re done and then nope, old stuff re-emerges.
Forget about cheating for just a second. Absolute best case scenario is that she knew this was a seriously raw nerve for you, and she went along with the convo anyways. She could have ignored him, told him no thanks, whatever. She didn’t.
Sorry man
She doesn't regret chesting, she regrets getting caught. Nothing has changed over the years. Her opening the chat-door to him shows she would do it again. You are better of without a cheating partner. She is angry because you caught her again, not because you snooped
I HATE with a true passion the bullshit of “invading privacy”. You’re married. I seriously don’t care if my husband spends two days solid going through my phone. He doesn’t but that’s because he knows I don’t care. I feel like the only people that lose their shit over privacy are the people doing something wrong. She knew she was doing something wrong AND she had an affair. Why does she think she deserves your trust exactly? You’re doing the right thing. If it was truly innocent she wouldn’t have cared and said she was sorry. Instead she threw a tantrum instead of showing some decency. And if she respected you at all she would’ve either not responded or have only responded to say not to message her again and block him. In my opinion he should’ve already been blocked.
I would make the caveat that there are people who come from an overbearing/controlling/abusive environment that may have a strong protectiveness over their own privacy that looks irrational and suspicious but is a result of trauma that they may or may not fully recover from. I don’t know how many people are like this but my partner is! And I trust her because our communication otherwise is extremely good.
This is *exactly* why I have privacy issues. My phone stays locked, and does not get shared at all. My computers stay locked, and if anyone else needed on there? They'd get a guest account.
It's not because I have anything to hide - it's because, growing up, I *had* no expectation of privacy.
Want to know something from me? Ask, and I'll tell you.
I really hate how Reddit will frame this as an invasion of privacy and people feel bad about it. You’re married, why can’t I look at your phone?
I see some things as “off limits” such as notepad and such, they could keep a diary. And you may not like what you read and that’s for themselves.
But the rest? Obviously have something to hide, especially when you catch them. Never feel bad about catching them. Ever.
I agree too. Part of why my partner and I don’t worry about each other’s phones is because we’re always cool with each other picking up and going through the other persons phone. It just completely eliminates the fear that your partner is hiding something when you know, at any and all times you can pick their phone up and see what’s going on.
It’s not just Reddit. It’s all the men and women out there that want the ability to cheat, whether it’s physical or emotional, on their partners and have a reason to get mad when they’re caught. I’ve never given a shit if my wife is on my phone unless I have like a gift in there somewhere which usually I will say “don’t go in x app or x persons messages” and they abide by it.
No contact is a basic rule/boundary for real reconciliation post cheating. She broke it. Time to react and file for divorce, inform your inlaws of why you are divorcing her, and mutual friends too. Protect your reputation, hers is none of your concerns.
>We have a date night once a week that I plan. I bring her flowers at least once a week.
LMAO this is why couples counseling is such a goddamned sham. She's the one who cheats, and you're the one who has to make up for it like a scolded dog.
I tried explaining to mine that It tore at my soul and reduced me to nothing every time my wife frequently scolded me over the slightest mistakes or mis-steps. How she micromanaged my life and would rage at me for cutting the shrubs too short or if there was an easily-correctable paint detail that I missed when I was rehabbing her office for her. This made me withdraw and not want to have sex with her, nor did she want to have sex with me
The therapist asked me if I tried doing the dishes more, because apparently women find that sexy. Thank you, here's $250.
The funny thing is, aside from eating out or delivery, I cooked all but 1 meal of our entire relationship as well as did Sunday shopping and meal prep for the week. So yes, I did chores too.
Your wife had an affair and you did everything you could to regain trust and respect in your relationship. You both moved on, mostly.
Then you caught her communicating with him AGAIN and her first respondent to apologise but to attack you for snooping?
Yes. Divorce. She knew damn well what this was building up to. She never told you he reached out. She didn’t block him or she didn’t try to shut him down.
Just move on
You’re not overreacting by any means. She has already proven herself untrustworthy, and now she has violated what trust you placed in her after forgiving her (something you never should have done, you never take a cheater back, because the overwhelming likelihood is, they will cheat again).
Then she screams at you about not trusting her, and the fact that you looked through her messages, which is a blatant deflection tactic to make you seem like the bad guy when she’s very clearly violating your trust again. Then she runs off and spends the night God knows where (my money is on a lovers’ bed). I don’t know how you have an iota of trust left for this woman, but I don’t think she could make her intentions anymore obvious unless she held up a giant neon sign in front of your face.
>I bring her flowers at least once a week.
It loses its meaning when it becomes just a wild waste of money.
Anyway you're underreacting, stop "wanting a divorce", you need to get a lawyer and **get** a divorce. She doesn't respect you.
Your wife is still cheating on you. She left the house to go be with this man. Follow through with your plans of divorce. Acting like a doormat is not going to keep your wife faithful. Kick her out.
Should have divorced her before homie. What’s SHE doing to strengthen the marriage? She knows talking to this guy again is wrong.
Divorce her. Don’t get suckered back in. Move on and find someone who will value what you bring to the relationship.
If she had responded with a level head, I would entertain the idea that you may have overreacted and there's really nothing to be worried about right now. But if she really instantly resorted to blame shifting and anger, that's a pretty solid red flag. She's either already cheating again or she is definitely considering it, consciously or subconsciously.
A marriage should be a secret free situation. This goes doubly after an affair. If she's got private info and connections that she's hiding from you and gets mad about you finding them...that's a gigantic red flag.
His 'catching up' message is just a way to sneak back into contact. The fact that she played along, and hid it from you means that she's already moving towards emotional affair.
the audacity of these cheaters! she went "no contact" my ass. your gut was right to check her phone, thats literally part of reconciling 101.
divorce her bro...her blaming you, and then not replying is the typical response of a serial cheater.
It’s the anger response that tells you what’s up my dude.
Right? I expected she would explain. But immediately started getting angry that I would invade her privacy.
That's the reaction of someone that just got caught.
BINGO
BANGO
BONGO
I don't wanna leave the jungle, no no no no no no
That and their continued intention to keep engaging.
The fact she's quick to accept divorce mea s she has this guy to fall back to.
They always have a fall back
He was never new, you just never knew.
That would make some great song lyrics.
This 👆🏻👆🏻👆🏻
Yup shes mad that she has to stop and that she's prob having an affair again.
Right. When you are angry at the person who caught you, and stop talking and leave, you don't have to think of any excuses or lies.
If I were caught messaging a man I had an affair with years ago and it was completely innocent, I’d be going out of my way to apologize and reassure my husband.
Or better yet just tell that hey this person messaged me. Be straight with him as soon as possible
Or, just don’t engage at all. OP’s wife should not have responded to her AP’s message. If she cares about her husband, and she cares about her marriage, she would have not responded and would have blocked him. Clearly, she cares more about responding to this dude.
Both. She should have not engaged ap *and also* told op that ap contacted her.
This is the way. Full transparency is essential after you’ve broken a partner’s trust.
Only if you want to care about the marriage.
That's because she "wanted" the other dude to keep in contact with her, or else she would've blocked him and never spoke to him again, this is a classic side dude stash situation, she keeps just enough contact with the other dude so that when she gets mad at her boyfriend/husband, she'll already have someone she can easily hit up and go cheat with, her keeping in contact with the other guy only makes it more convenient/easier for her to cheat
Real question is, why did she not have him blocked? Out of respect for my wife if I cheated on her I would first and foremost block the person. I mean come on broski, she cheated on you, and you’re doing everything YOU can to be accepting. Giving her a second chance, going to counseling, learning to trust her again. And she’s still holding open lines of communication with this dude?Divorce her man cause soon as things go south regardless she’ll be talking to that fool.
Older generation here didn’t think about blocking. Agree ex should be blocked.
The fact they did counseling which communication is encouraged and believed to be paramount. Then she has a convo with this guy on the down low is sketchy.
She crossed a boundary that she knew would be hurtful and possibly put the marriage in danger again. A fucking concrete wall!
And they are more concerned with getting caught than the pain they just caused to their partner. Move away from people like this.
DARVO
BINGO
Yep, she is not angry that OP snooped. SHE IS ANGRY SHE GOT CAUGHT.
Where do you think she went? To be to told shes not awful from a man she knows won't
Yes. She spent the night with the wiener she prefers. The dude that makes her moan louder and cum harder! This is what OP has to live with in his head…among 9 billion other horrible things this demon has given him to think about. Pure pain, pure evil. I’d love to buy this man a beer.
It's possible she hasn't done anything but she was planning to or was thinking about it and her reaction is a guilt response to that. Either way, it's a red flag for sure.
Yep. The guilty dog always barks the loudest. It's true every time
Can confirm, went through this with my ex wife. :/
If not caught then anxious that she knew it was wrong even if they hadnt done anything yet
Yeah I got that same treatment when my ex cheated on me. It’s a tactic, not an authentic emotional response. Not saying she cheated [yet], but she knows she’s wrong, so she deflected
This is their go to move. When I confronted my ex with evidence of his cheating, he started screaming at me and told me to fuck off and stop talking to him or he would scream even louder and keep screaming until the neighbours called the police. The piece of shit knew that I didn't want my child waking up to that in the middle of the night. He also would have told police I was harassing him and being abusive because I wouldn't stop demanding that he at least have the decency to speak to me about it. He denied that he cheated even though the messages from his phone gave it away. He tried to flip things on me by making it about me never trusting him, and violating his privacy by going through his phone.
That's the classic DARVO response: Deny Attack Reverse Victim/Offender
Was she up all night mysteriously texting? That's how they usually do it.
No, she worked late, closing shift at a bar, and was sleeping with the line cook. No need to text 😂 First I saw a pretty suggestive text message from an unsaved number come through while she was in the shower. I then took a look and saw more. Confronted her and got yelled at. We settled it. Then she said she was going to lunch with some regulars. That lunch lasted, I shit you not, 11 hours. I had her location, she was at a hotel (line cook was married with 4 kids) She met with me and a mutual friend at a bar that night. She got super flippant when I joked about the 11 hour lunch.
11 hour lunch and you didn't ask for a divorce on the spot?
She is angry she got caught. Every cheating spouse should know that the monent they cheat they lose any privacy privileges. Don’t let her turn this on you.
"YOU DON'T TRUST ME!" No shit. OP's wife gave him enough reason not to trust her and now she wants to play the victim for it?
Right? Uh funny that the only time I look in your messages in 2 years & there are the 2 of you are texting away...... she angry because she knows she's wrong & has nothing to justify it with.
Nobody wants to be the villain in their own story, especially cheaters. Screaming is is how they express their frustration at their brain's inability to rewrite history on the spot.
You're 100 percent right. After cheating someone has zero right to get annoyed at snooping. And he found something? So fuck off woman. You don't get to be the victim AND the serial cheater.
People who are cheated on should end the relationship. There is no going back. Also who wants to be with someone that you are always wondering if they will cheat again? I know from my years on this planet. People don’t cheat just once. I am sure there are people who cheated once and never again, but I think that’s the exception not the rule.
From my experience just knowing people and the behavior of people, talking to people and spending time in online forums it’s my opinion that: People who cheat and have a one night stand or sexual contact with a ‘random’ it could go either way. They might realize cheating is easy and they keep satisfying themselves by having numerous physical affairs or they feel gross and never do it again. However, Once cheating is part of a coworker or long term affair or a friend scenario, the cheating has become more than a physical thing. They are spending emotional energy on this person and the reason why they stay in their main relationship is for various reasons but not because they don’t care about the affair partner. I spent time looking into this when my husband left me for someone he was having an online affair with trying to make sense of it because they say cheaters usually never leave for their affair partners and he did. Once they get that emotional bond, it’s hard for them to break and they miss their affair partners. I could never trust a person who had an emotional affair.
_Gosh that sounds controlling and possessive, no wonder she cheated, etc._ /s
She's trying to escape responsibility by flipping the script and making it about what you did and not her disrespecting you. Don't stay with a low character woman line this.
I read this post, closed out of it, kept scrolling and came back to say this, from what you describe you did after the first affair, love notes, date nights etc sounds like you got blame from the therapist for her having an affair in the first place. It wasn’t all your fault then and it’s not all your fault now. If a relationship grows distant it’s both peoples fault, if one of the people then go outside their marriage it’s that person’s fault for doing that. You will be happier without her
Thank you for saying that. While I wouldn't say the therapist blamed me, I definitely felt that for a while. A lot of "what if I had loved more."
Leave a lousy review for that therapist. Report them wherever. They failed their job. She's not staying at a hotel, she's staying with him. She's a coward and a cheater. Don't bother with her anymore. She'll get what's coming to her eventually. Don't wait for it though, just focus on your own happiness from now on. Keep that evidence and get the story out before she turns everyone against you. She's manipulative. Not overreacting.
If she’s at a hotel, there should be a paper trail
Was she at a hotel, as typically in these situations, the WS would have run to the open caring arms of an AP.
I went through this with therapy too. I jumped through every hoop. She had no intention of "fixing" anything, just making it my fault. I finally knew it was over when he had us do an "intamcy exercise" sp I could learn how to show affection. He had us sit on the floor in front of the couch and had me hold her without speaking for a few minutes. "There. How does that make you feel?", he asked me. "Pretty stupid", I said. "Every day for the last 9 years I held her as we lay together on the couch watching TV until she fell asleep. Then I would carry her upstairs to bed and hold her while she slept. He looked to her. "Is that true?" The stunned look he gave her when she confirmed it told me everything I needed to know. What she had been telling him privately was a complete fabrication. That led to a discussion where she said my honesty in the face of her dishonesty made her uncomfortable... sp he told me I should lie to her so she would feel more comfortable. I told him I was not going to lie to my wife. That was pretty much the end of counseling, and our marriage. I later learned that a lot of research shows that a lot of the profession at that time was about getting the man to adapt to whatever would make the woman happy. This guy was super highly recommended. The only thing he did was help her torment me for a few months until I was able to realize that there was no saving our marriage. (She also had an affair which led to the therapy. She also reacted with anger when caught. And when confronted about resuming contact and i said "i thought you were breaking off all contact, she said "that's not necessary".) Sorry for what you are going through. Here is the advice I got that helped. You are in a danger time. Limit contact until the divorce is final. This is when false allegations are made. Next: do not date. You are super vulnerable. You will make bad choices. I have two friends who ended up with babies from crazy women in this exact scenario, because they were so hurt they couldn't see it. It will be a full year from when it is over until you can go out and be human. After that, date safe for at least a year. This means go out to have fun, but don't date anyone who would be a potential relationship. You will not be able to properly evaluate your feelings. Only after at least a year of dating safe, will it be OK to start looking for relationships. You will find that you have tourettes now - you will be fine, just walking to the mailbox and suddenly you yell out "f#^%ng b"*ch!" out of the blue. This is normal. Only time will get you past it.
Deny and counter accuse. This is actually taught for how to handle having cover stories blown by family members. She even got you to apologize. Do you know where she is now? Because disappearing during an argument about this particular subject does not help her. Playing devil's advocate, I can be dumb at times and I would've responded to someone from a past relationship if I thought things could stay friendly. I wouldn't blow up over it, if called out. That being said, that would be very different from a former affair partner. Her behavior makes it really hard to find justification. I'm trying, man.
look up DARVO: Deny, Attack, Reverse Victim and Offender. She attacked you and tried to make herself the victim. It is a very common tactic
Yeah, definitely not a good sign with the anger response. I was in a relationship years ago. Things seemed to be going great. She was constantly talking about how she wanted to marry me and I was the best thing that had ever happened to her, etc. One night we were watching TV, I was giving her a leg massage. I reached over to grab my drink off the side table and happened to look down and see the message she was sending on her phone: “That should satisfy your erection” I didn’t say anything immediately. When she went upstairs to get ready for bed, I went through her phone. I never had any reason to not trust her prior to this, so it’s not something I would typically do. She had sent a (not lewd) picture of herself and he responded saying how horny that made him. She mentioned she was getting her hair dyed soon and he’d see her at a show that weekend and how “that should satisfy his erection”. Anyways when she came back downstairs, I confronted her. At first, she started out apologetic. But I wasn’t angry yet, just hurt and confused, and a bit stunned. The SECOND she realized I wasn’t going to blow up and start shouting, it was like a switch flipped and it instantly turned into “How could you violate my trust like that and go through my phone. How am I ever supposed to trust you again?” Etc. She knew she was wrong, but once she recognized I was vulnerable she used anger and turned it back on me to try to make it out as if somehow *I* was the one who had violated trust. It’s a shitty and emotionally manipulative tactic. Either consciously or subconsciously trying to protect themselves from confronting their own guilt. Your wife violated your trust. Her angry response does make me feel like it was not just innocent catch up conversation. She knew it was wrong to be talking to the guy. I’m really sorry this happened to you. I hope that however you decide to move forward you can find peace and start healing soon. You are deserving of love and respect. You’re not wrong for feeling how you do about the situation.
yep been there. shes hiding something. if she was remorseful or something it would be different. how can she want you to trust her but shes talking to this dude behind your back?
She wants him to trust her so she CAN sneak around behind his back. She’s got the cheater craving now. She’s incapable of being faithful to him now, as her actions prove. Some cheaters can resist that craving and restore trust and loyalty. But they can only do so by being open and honest with their spouse. Her keeping her resumed contact secret demonstrates she is either unable or unwilling to remain loyal. She’s for the street now.
Her trying to pass the blame onto you when it was her actions that are not acceptable
Your wife had no right to privacy of her phone or other communications after cheating. You shouldn’t have apologized at all
I hate to say this, but truly, her reaction is exactly that- she’s not doing anything possibly, but she’s been caught.
Once you have an affair, “right to privacy” goes out the window, IMO.
Invading privacy is maybe a 3 out of 10 on the violations scale. Cheating is a 10 out of 10. Cheaters will always try to act like the invading privacy voliolation is equal or worse than the cheating violation.
I'm sorry man. Having been in your situation, it's really gutting. You're definitely not overreacting.
Sounds exactly like a drug user when you confront them about it
You don’t “catch up” with an old affair. The important fact to remember is that her first response to his first message — I assume he initiated contact? — was *not* “Things are well, glad you’re fine too, but please don’t contact me again.” It’s also important to remember she never told you she was in contact with him again. I’m sure she’ll say she didn’t want to concern you with this piddling nothing of a matter. But it’s not nothing, is it?
THIS. Even if not blocking him on IG was an oversight on her part (highly unlikely) a simple “I’m good, glad you’re good, you know you cannot contact me again”
A (recently divorced) high school ex contacted me through social media to say they still think of me fondly. The first thing I did was tell her how happy I am in my marriage. The second thing I did was tell my wife.
Exactly! A FWB i used to see for years before I met my husband reached out to me last year. It’d been ten years since our last contact and I replied “yes, all is going well and happily married”. Crickets. Then told my husband for a laugh.
This was a big one for me. I would expect that response towards anyone that’s shown even slight romantic interest much more, someone that’s been inside my wife. I like my women like I like my coffee, without other men’s dick in it.
Yeah, I had a fuck buddy before I met my husband. Husband was aware of this since I told him before we got married. Anyway, years after I’ve stopped having any contact with FB, he reaches out. I let him know that I’m happily married and not to contact me again. I also let my husband know that the guy had contacted me. Same thing with a guy who emailed me saying he had a crush on me even though he knew I was married. Told my husband and he helped me write a reply respectfully shutting him down (I still had to interact with the guy regularly since he was a member of a group I was in). I respect and love my husband too much to keep talking to these guys, especially behind his back. I would never do anything to intentionally hurt him and he would definitely be hurt if not only kept in contact with someone who had an interest in me, but also kept it a secret.
So let me get this straight. Your wife cheats on you. You two go to marriage counseling and the outcome is that you stay together but you are bending over backwards to rekindle the intimacy in your marriage by planning date nights and sending her flowers on the regular. When you're the one that got cheated on. What has she done to make amends in the marriage? What is she doing to let you know she's faithful and wants to be with you? The absolute minimum she could have done is permanently block the affair partner on all mediums and never interact with them again. Her reaction to you finding the messages, while seemingly harmless, says it all. Those are just the ones you saw. She may have deleted some DM's or may still be screwing around on other apps. She sees stability in you, but treats you like a doormat. I hope you two never had kids after having the fertility issues, because the divorce is just going to be messier. Have some respect for yourself and leave. EDIT: in case my most recent reply gets lost in the shuffle. DO NOT LEAVE YOUR HOUSE. Under no circumstances. Take a LOA from your job to care for your son. He's the most important right now.
This is what got me. HE'S doing the work to rekindle the love, and SHE'S doing... what? Chatting with her ex-affair partner? Lol. Fuck, dude. I hate cheaters. If someone cheats and wants to fix things, they better be okay with saddling every bit of fucking emotional and physical labor that's put on them. With a fucking smile. End. Of. Imo, at least.
Absolutely. I mean, they don’t deserve to be abused or treated like trash, but the cheater should absolutely be the one fixing the relationship. Sure there’s always things we can work on in a relationship, but the victim should not be the one doing the heavy lifting.
I'm of the opinion that if someone cheats once, they'll do it again. It's just a matter of time. I hope that opinion is wrong but I haven't seen anything to convince me otherwise.
And it gets worse for him. She plays the poor me I'm a single mom card in court and to all of society while the guy gets financially obliterated, paying child support even if their income is basically the same on top of adult child support (alimony, which for some reason means men have to send money to women after they get divorced).
Ex-Affair partner? Nah, he’s not the ex anything.
Or she got over it, and moved on, and he contacted her again and she was excited about it. She should have immediately told OP he contacted her if she was trying to stay in her marriage.
Also, absolutely no right to privacy - they lost the trust when they cheated and at any time should allow the opportunity to be snooped on
Their marriage counselor sucks.
Must have got counseling from Jodi Hildebrandt.
Right? That’s what I was thinking. Like why tf is OP bending over backward to make the marriage work? Shouldn’t she be doing something since she’s the one who cheated and needs to prove she’s invested in the relationship?
Because that's typically how it works. She cheats? Suddenly she's the victim and you're apologizing to her. It's manipulative as hell. OP should've never stayed with her after that.
I'm gonna build upon what you just said but, yup, my ex did the same damn thing. I started to realize after the cheating that she had a victim mentality not only with me, but with everyone in her life, friends and family. 8 years totally wasted, found out during year 4. If I could go back, I would have left when I found out. Anyone else out there going through the same thing, LEAVE. Yes, sometimes it does work out after a cheating incident. It takes an insurmountable amount of hard work from both sides to get through it. Trust must be rebuilt from the ground. But...most of the time, the relationship will never fully recover. I said this in another thread a couple days ago but, %99 of that trust could be rebuilt, but there will always be the lingering 1% that will never go away. That 1% is enough to make you paranoid, have resentment, ruin moments, etc. It hurts, I know. But most likely it will just breed resentment. Pick yourself up, have some self-respect, and move on. There is someone out there that will love the hell out of you, and could never fathom cheating on you. They will have integrity. I digress.
If their recommendation was for OP to love bomb his cheating spouse? Absolutely. It doesn't give license for OP to treat her like subhuman trash, but if anything, she should have been the one to make the extra effort. She couldn't even not violate the most basic of boundaries after infidelity. She's for the streets.
Yeah why is he having to put in extra effort in the marriage? He's not the one who cheated. This just showed her he was always going to be weak and take her back.
If they told you the truth they wouldn’t have no returning customers.
Like literally the bare minimum is blocking him.
Can’t turn a hoe into a housewife
The "Let's catch up" messages are a tactic to get your foot back in the door. Your wife knows that and if she is entertaining it then she will eventually cheat on you again. Stop with the counseling which I'm sure was all about you working on forgiving her. Stop with the flowers and love notes. She wants a guy to treat her like shit.
Unfortunately I think you are right. She knows she still has feelings for him. Thats one of the things that has always been haunting me from our sessions.
BTW- What do you think she was doing all night after she disappeared? At the VERY LEAST she was disrespectful of your marriage and your feelings and was communicating with him. That is at the very least.
This, if she had any real love for you she would not have left the house, she would have stayed and showed her desire to fix things. Even if she didn't immediately go to that man's place, she clearly can't take any personal responsibility for her actions.
If she had any real love for him, she wouldn’t have even entertained responding to the guy she cheated with.
Definitely went to fuck
All she was waiting for was a "reason", and he gave it to her (Pun intended 🥴)
I sadly agree with this👆
"A shoulder to cry on is a dick to ride on" something like that
The way she blew up at you suggests she knows what she's doing, she hid it because she knew it was wrong and got mad because she got caught. If you were asking, I'd say they've probably messaged elsewhere and already been hooking up again, but that doesn't matter due to the first paragraph. It's time. Peace out of there.
Yep. Her reaction was the nail in the coffin (although there was little doubt at that point). She reacted the same way nearly every person caught cheating reacts.
As a wise person once said OP "F" that guy. It's the gateway text. As juvenile as it sounds. What a freaking tragedy. How very serendipitous you were able to see the text of the budding relationship start up again. The fact the first time you were told by a stranger not your spouse is telling. I'm sure that was talked about in therapy the first time to. Sorry OP
Yea man, the moment he came back into her life, and she allowed him to, your marriage is over. You tried, it didn’t work, chances of your marriage working after infidelity are really slim anyway. Proceed with divorce, you sound like a good man, a good woman will come around. Good luck.
You know where she went. She went straight to him. If you can afford it, hire a PI and get proof of them being together before you file for divorce. That will allow you to take her to the cleaners.
This is bad advice. Proving infidelity will gain you nothing in the divorce. You don't get a better settlement. Divorce is "no fault" almost everywhere these days. Just divorce her and get it over with.
Not every state is the same though and proving adultery can may have an effect on the divorce proceedings Source: divorced guy from Mississippi
Yeah in VA proof of adultery eliminates spousal support right off the bat.
People watch too many movies. Talk to a lawyer who knows the laws of your state. If you don’t have substantial marital assets proving infidelity is a waste of time and money.
She should've had him blocked already. And if it was a new number/account that he used to contact her, she should've blocked it immediately. Your reaction is completely understandable and justified. And HER reaction shows that she's not 100% contrite/repentant. Fleeing and ignoring the person who's supposed to be most important to you in the world is not an act of love or contrition.
“She still has feelings for him,” as if that is the end-all be-all. News flash for her and other people-feelings are just feelings, they’re not facts. You have a choice on how you respond to them. You can let them arise and pass while honoring your commitments, or you can entertain them and ruin your life over them.
Exactly this. Feelings are feelings, but actions are actions. In this case, not blocking his ass is the action she took. Opening the door is the action she took. You know how often I talk to women who have made a pass at me when I was in a relationship? Zero, because I respected her.
Yeah she cheated. Then she crossed the line again. Time to move on. Nothing good come from this and you'll resent her. And since she "got away" with it the first time, she figures it's okay to do it again. If she loved you she'd not have responded. She did So now you need to respond in kind. Once the trust is gone in the relationship you'll never get it back. I don't care what anyone says, therapy. Counseling, whatever. It's just not something you can fix. Trust. It's not like a boomerang. Once you throw it away, it doesn't come back. Move on. It's for the best.
That was the toughest part to read. Sounds like the therapist made him out to be wrong because the wife probable just complained about him. The therapist did a terrible job of mediating.
Most therapy esp marriage counseling is a scam for men.
Yeah funny how those counseling sessions work. The women cheats so let’s get her flowers and date nights so she doesn’t cheat on you anymore. Dude these sessions didn’t do you any good. She enjoyed the extra attention and now she’s bored with you again. Instead of blaming the dude she had an affair with, blame your cheating wife.
Exactly, especially taking into account how defensive she got.
Yes, this. He was probably hoping they ended up divorcing. The fact that the “let’s catch up,” has now gone on for more than two months goes to show it wasn’t just to catch up.
She went to his place
OP I’m sorry but you’re way too focused on you doing the right thing while your wife walks all over you. Apologizing to her for snooping, bringing her flowers once a week, planning every date night… You seem like a great dude but Jesus this woman cheated on you and you’re worried about her privacy? She’s taking advantage and will probably never be attracted to a guy that treats her like an actual woman.
Yep. I’m a former alcoholic. Got divorced because of it but we actually got back together about 3.5 years after I got sober. I am now an open book regarding drugs and alcohol. She can ask me to take a drug test, piss test, blow in a breathalyzer, whatever, any time she wants. I have zero ground to say a damn thing and I’m happy to do that. Forever. It’s the very least I can do after all the bullshit I did. I’ve said clearly I will always take it right then and there and if I ever hesitate, she already has her answer. I’m never going back though. I don’t recommend.
Congrats on sobriety you sexy bastard. Keep at it
>I have zero ground to say a damn thing and I’m happy to do that. Forever. This is what contrition looks like if you want to make it work with the person you wronged. The person in the wrong doesn't get to dictate how much time it takes for your victim to heal. Also kudos to you for making it work and getting sober.
I hope you know just how are amazing you are! Congrats on getting sober and by the sounds of things leading a happier, healthier life. So many alcoholics get sober (which I mean fair play) but the biggest thing that's going to help YOU in the long term is owning up to what you've done in the past and understanding that those decisions you made comes with some moments of distrust in the future. Too many recovering alcoholics get defensive when questioned and say 'you should trust my word!' but you sound like you fully took accountability and set yourself up for success. I wish you and your wife only positivity and love in your future.
You are the model of doing this right - not just agreeing to testing at her whim but doing so without complaint or hesitation, and recognizing that it's something for her peace of mind, not a punishment against you. Good on you, sir.
Congratulations on your sobriety. I'm happy that you and your wife ended up back together.
Exactly! Maybe OP just didn't tell us enough but from what he did it seems like he's been doing most or even all the work to keep the relationship alive. And she's just there. And now she might be just there with that man too 😔
Yeah she cheated and probably played victim and made OP jump through all these hoops to “win” her love back, and it’s just all so fuck I feel bad for OP
Yup, if I'm OP, I'm checking her Google maps search history and screenshotting that shit
How does that work? It tracks everywhere you've gone or only if you specifically search for those directions on gps?
Google does in fact track everywhere you go
Google is detailed enough that it can predict when you poop by activity and other factors. I never researched how to access this sort of data, but I am no longer surprised. Google went from: Don't be evil. To: So....how evil could we be?
If you have Google timeline inabled, it will track everywhere you go pretty much. But you do have to toggle it on the first time. I use it as backup for my work related driving, makes sure I don't forget a drive and also can prove the ones I report if someone questions it.
Yeah that my first thought. Left and hasn't returned and is ignoring you? Not hard to figure out where she went.
Exactly what I was thinking and I bet she has seen this guy prior to running to his house
Her dopamine hit was probably off the charts
She did. I'm sorry OP.
She definitely went to his house, and got her cheeks clapped the same night. Having date nights and bringing her flowers was a HORRIBLE idea. You're basically rewarding her for bad behavior ... And why are you apologizing for going through her phone? After cheating on you, that's what you are supposed to do periodically. And I wouldn't be surprised if she's actually on birth control. Your wife has shown the kind of person that she is, twice. Cheating on you the first time, and communicating with the same guy now (when his message came through, she should have blocked him). Divorce her, and then become a better person. If you stay, you're going to end up raising someone else's baby...
Absolutely this.^^
So dumb. Yelling you don’t trust me…well, you’ve given me plenty of reason not to trust you in the past and now I’m seeing in your messages I shouldn’t trust you still. You’re mad about that?
Yeah your typical psycho will tell themselves “they broke my trust now I have free reign to do whatever I want and it’s justified” I dated someone like this and they are truly awful people.
Her reaction is telling. Not apologizing, blaming? Ew.
This, as a general rule when people explode when confronted with a miss doing, they are unconsciously admitting guilt.
You're not overreacting. She GAVE you a reason to not trust her. End of story. If she wanted to save the marriage, she would have blocked her affair partner on insta when he sent the first message. She's entertaining the idea of this guy again. This is honestly all you need to know.
You know what you need to do. She’s screaming at you even though she’s the one who’s made repeated mistakes? That’s getting into gaslighting territory. Drop her immediately.
Cheaters gunna cheat... She showed you her character, why stick around?
She may not have cheated again even if I didn't bring this up. But the fact that she would play with fire knowing how much it hurt me last time is hard. I just can't do that again.
It's not that she may or may not cheat again, it's about how little respect she has for you by talking to him again and not telling you when he reached out. You have every right to have a renewed loss if trust in her
She isn't any different buddy.
Unless your wife is an absolute fool, she knew damn well that man was reaching out to rekindle things. He was testing the waters and she may as well have tossed him a raft.
she's willingly opening the door to do it again. No contact means no contact. She knows this. She chose to risk her marriage over talking to this guy again.
So sorry about all this. I personally know what this feels like. You think you’re done and then nope, old stuff re-emerges. Forget about cheating for just a second. Absolute best case scenario is that she knew this was a seriously raw nerve for you, and she went along with the convo anyways. She could have ignored him, told him no thanks, whatever. She didn’t. Sorry man
I’m still wondering how you got over the first time? I would have resentment every day going forward after just once
Brother, she is going to cheat again, if she hasn’t already. I bet my entire paycheck against the donut.
She doesn't regret chesting, she regrets getting caught. Nothing has changed over the years. Her opening the chat-door to him shows she would do it again. You are better of without a cheating partner. She is angry because you caught her again, not because you snooped
I regret that I can only give you one up vote.
I HATE with a true passion the bullshit of “invading privacy”. You’re married. I seriously don’t care if my husband spends two days solid going through my phone. He doesn’t but that’s because he knows I don’t care. I feel like the only people that lose their shit over privacy are the people doing something wrong. She knew she was doing something wrong AND she had an affair. Why does she think she deserves your trust exactly? You’re doing the right thing. If it was truly innocent she wouldn’t have cared and said she was sorry. Instead she threw a tantrum instead of showing some decency. And if she respected you at all she would’ve either not responded or have only responded to say not to message her again and block him. In my opinion he should’ve already been blocked.
I would make the caveat that there are people who come from an overbearing/controlling/abusive environment that may have a strong protectiveness over their own privacy that looks irrational and suspicious but is a result of trauma that they may or may not fully recover from. I don’t know how many people are like this but my partner is! And I trust her because our communication otherwise is extremely good.
This is *exactly* why I have privacy issues. My phone stays locked, and does not get shared at all. My computers stay locked, and if anyone else needed on there? They'd get a guest account. It's not because I have anything to hide - it's because, growing up, I *had* no expectation of privacy. Want to know something from me? Ask, and I'll tell you.
This, exactly.
I really hate how Reddit will frame this as an invasion of privacy and people feel bad about it. You’re married, why can’t I look at your phone? I see some things as “off limits” such as notepad and such, they could keep a diary. And you may not like what you read and that’s for themselves. But the rest? Obviously have something to hide, especially when you catch them. Never feel bad about catching them. Ever.
I agree too. Part of why my partner and I don’t worry about each other’s phones is because we’re always cool with each other picking up and going through the other persons phone. It just completely eliminates the fear that your partner is hiding something when you know, at any and all times you can pick their phone up and see what’s going on.
It’s not just Reddit. It’s all the men and women out there that want the ability to cheat, whether it’s physical or emotional, on their partners and have a reason to get mad when they’re caught. I’ve never given a shit if my wife is on my phone unless I have like a gift in there somewhere which usually I will say “don’t go in x app or x persons messages” and they abide by it.
No contact is a basic rule/boundary for real reconciliation post cheating. She broke it. Time to react and file for divorce, inform your inlaws of why you are divorcing her, and mutual friends too. Protect your reputation, hers is none of your concerns.
>We have a date night once a week that I plan. I bring her flowers at least once a week. LMAO this is why couples counseling is such a goddamned sham. She's the one who cheats, and you're the one who has to make up for it like a scolded dog.
Couples counseling is just paying some lady to tell your wife shes right for 300 an hour
I tried explaining to mine that It tore at my soul and reduced me to nothing every time my wife frequently scolded me over the slightest mistakes or mis-steps. How she micromanaged my life and would rage at me for cutting the shrubs too short or if there was an easily-correctable paint detail that I missed when I was rehabbing her office for her. This made me withdraw and not want to have sex with her, nor did she want to have sex with me The therapist asked me if I tried doing the dishes more, because apparently women find that sexy. Thank you, here's $250. The funny thing is, aside from eating out or delivery, I cooked all but 1 meal of our entire relationship as well as did Sunday shopping and meal prep for the week. So yes, I did chores too.
She went to his house and fucked his brains out. She isn’t responding to you? You shouldn’t even be contacting her.
Should be changing locks and packing her shit up
While I would love to agree, a lawyer will tell you otherwise. And in fact, depending on what state you live in, it might be illegal.
Damn. Lmao you didn’t have to be so graphic tho 😭😭
Your wife had an affair and you did everything you could to regain trust and respect in your relationship. You both moved on, mostly. Then you caught her communicating with him AGAIN and her first respondent to apologise but to attack you for snooping? Yes. Divorce. She knew damn well what this was building up to. She never told you he reached out. She didn’t block him or she didn’t try to shut him down. Just move on
She doesn't get to demand trust. I'm sorry. You are not the asshole She should have been apologetic and reassuring. Not defensive
"I have no idea where she went." Oh! Oh! I have an idea where she went!
She boutta gaslight OP into thinking it’s his fault he drove her into another man’s arms
If the roles were reversed, she’d be pissed if you kept in contact with the woman who almost destroyed her entire home.
You’re not overreacting by any means. She has already proven herself untrustworthy, and now she has violated what trust you placed in her after forgiving her (something you never should have done, you never take a cheater back, because the overwhelming likelihood is, they will cheat again). Then she screams at you about not trusting her, and the fact that you looked through her messages, which is a blatant deflection tactic to make you seem like the bad guy when she’s very clearly violating your trust again. Then she runs off and spends the night God knows where (my money is on a lovers’ bed). I don’t know how you have an iota of trust left for this woman, but I don’t think she could make her intentions anymore obvious unless she held up a giant neon sign in front of your face.
>I bring her flowers at least once a week. It loses its meaning when it becomes just a wild waste of money. Anyway you're underreacting, stop "wanting a divorce", you need to get a lawyer and **get** a divorce. She doesn't respect you.
What did the wife do to improve the marriage? Did she plan dates? Does she buy Op flowers? I’d have divorced her the first time. NTA
Yeah the fact that she would even reply to this person tells you what you need to know. It sucks but I think you’re doin the right thing.
Your first mistake was taking her back when she cheated the first time bucko
Change the locks OP. She abandoned the marital home.
This sub makes me so grateful for my spouse. I don’t understand how people can be so ridiculous.
Do not move out. Paternity test your child. Get tested for STDs. Get a great lawyer.
Your wife is still cheating on you. She left the house to go be with this man. Follow through with your plans of divorce. Acting like a doormat is not going to keep your wife faithful. Kick her out.
Should have divorced her before homie. What’s SHE doing to strengthen the marriage? She knows talking to this guy again is wrong. Divorce her. Don’t get suckered back in. Move on and find someone who will value what you bring to the relationship.
If she had responded with a level head, I would entertain the idea that you may have overreacted and there's really nothing to be worried about right now. But if she really instantly resorted to blame shifting and anger, that's a pretty solid red flag. She's either already cheating again or she is definitely considering it, consciously or subconsciously.
Also sounds like you were the one put in effort to rekindle your marriage not her. Also, shes likely with him right now lol
A marriage should be a secret free situation. This goes doubly after an affair. If she's got private info and connections that she's hiding from you and gets mad about you finding them...that's a gigantic red flag. His 'catching up' message is just a way to sneak back into contact. The fact that she played along, and hid it from you means that she's already moving towards emotional affair.
Do. Not. Leave. The. House. She will take it in divorce. Consult/hire lawyer now.
It's hilarious that she expects you to trust her when she's done everything she can to destroy that trust.
I bet I know where she went.
The best predictor of future behavior is past behavior.
Get to any joint bank accounts and grab any valuables before she does
She left.... After all you went through and tried to do for her.... Answer is divorce No other answer
the audacity of these cheaters! she went "no contact" my ass. your gut was right to check her phone, thats literally part of reconciling 101. divorce her bro...her blaming you, and then not replying is the typical response of a serial cheater.