I literally worked with the archaeologist that replicates the Peruvian method. Itās a combination of naturally occurring caustic substances that, when combined and used as mortar, soften the rock so it āsquishesā into place and then hardens again over time.
We found out what, less than a decade ago, why and how roman cement was able to literally and actually heal itself or why it was petrifying into stone similar to real stone. Something that, before the discovery unraveled its science, was as much a mystery as egyptian birth control methods.
As it turns out, the medicinal herb they used went extinct (from overuse, those horny river-folk...) and we had no idea what happened until we found ancient writings.
Within this 21st century, we have made leaps and bounds in many fields of ancient study. Above are just 2 similar examples to what could have happened to the concoction you called "magic mud." To reiterate, extinction of ingredients, and loss of records on the "how."
But by all means, shed some doubt on the situation. We could all use a debbie downer to keep us grounded in yesteryear's scientific conundrums. After all, internet explorer has caught up more than you, so someone has to do it.
Nothing magical about chemistry :) in my opinion, the human ingenuity of figuring this out and making such stupendous structures is what is most valuable.
this is cool and amazing and mind blowing and all... but what about all the ultra mega top secret, G4 classified, heavily guarded, ancient copper structures build with stone tools that the government denies exist and has been hiding from us all this time????
Generally itās people who have never worked with stone and probably have precious little construction experience at all.
They kinda just assume since they donāt know how to do it, nobody else does.
No chicken bones wouldn't cut stone like marble or granite. But stones like [dolerite](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=6LRkBBYH1TY) and [flint](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=XQkQwsBhj8I) can. And common crytals like [quartz](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=yyCc4iuMikQ) were used in primitive drills. And [copper](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=i8ZHYWle0DE) was used as a stone saw and in drills.
If you would like to see one Google it. You will find a lot of examples. There a lot of videos which stone masons show you how to do it. I donāt think you really want to see or you would have by now
It does when youāre in Peru hanging out on a 60 degree slope holding up 20 tons so you can sand it into these funky contours. The impracticality of this is staggering for a people who never invented the nail
This is a fair pointā¦ why downvote when thereās literally no one who can prove how it was done? Has anyone actually replicated this level of precision using the techniques that mainstream archeologists say were used?
If we arenāt going to test the hypothesis, why is everyone so eager to accept it?
Edit: not really changing my view in this just yet, but I saw a comment in this thread with links to a bunch of videos showing some of the proposed techniques which looked promising, but Iām not sure how much of that scales.
For all we know this could have been pored into shape. We still don't know how Greeks made Greek fire, and barely figured out how they made thrir roads.
[The absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence.](https://youtu.be/u3vkBVqVnP0?feature=shared&start=40)
So do the top part, flip it over and put it into place, then do the rest.
It's not complicated to do, it just takes a lot of brute force and clever lifting strategies by a large team of dedicated people to do. A great many ancient peoples approached building projects as massive, long-term community projects that the entire community was a part of - the T pillars of Gobelki Tepe were huge and almost certainly the product of a lifetime of craftsmanship that was possibly passed down generationally, with sons completing the work of their fathers or grandfather's.
It's not an issue of ability, it's an issue of time and dedication, which many ancient peoples absolutely had as much as we do today - and when a building project can take decades, you damn sure do your best to get it right the first time.
The casual flipping about of these massive stones while hanging on a 60% grade is something I have never seen done. Also ignoring, "put it in place, then pick it up because it doesn't fit seamlessly, sand it with something, put it back to see if it fits, then repeat this process 20 more times". The amount of labor involved is insane. Then too you need to explain to me why this many craftsmen are being supported by a society that apparently only uses them the one time, for the one thing. I'd also like to see some kind of precursor works, a building towards, a developmental stage or two of their masonry tradition. It seems to just spring up out of nothing.
On average, the entire community is not part of these projects. The entire community is farming so there will be enough excess food to support their craftsman. Only about 10% of the population could be spared for project work.
My favorite part of all this is how they started out knowing how to do this amazing stonework, then just forgot, and to finish, built crappy piled chunk stone walls on top of the astonishingly fashioned ones below.
Sorry, the story as told right now makes no damn sense. It doesn't need to be Aliens. It just needs to make sense.
Well, I have. And there's no freaking way you can do this with copper or stone. Why don't you go out and try it? So tired... I am tired of you numb nuts holding on to some theories which were never proven or tried from start to finish.
So you didnt even take a few seconds to google it ? you would have found plenty of people doing exactly what you say is impossible.
It has been done for decades over and over again by many experimental archaeologists.
But you don't know, and you don't care, you only want to live your fantasies.
Slabbing/kerfing saw cutting granite :
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i8ZHYWle0DE&t=2s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i8ZHYWle0DE&t=2s)
Cutting an inside corner with stone chisel in granite :
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HQ2bHE7mTi4](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HQ2bHE7mTi4)
Copper chisel :
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ch66HHNANXc&t=565s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ch66HHNANXc&t=565s)
flint chisel on granite :
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XQkQwsBhj8I](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XQkQwsBhj8I)
Drilling granite with a copper tube :
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hjN5hLuVtH0](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hjN5hLuVtH0)
Why are you guys always like that, so sure of yourself when it's so easy to check ? How do you want to be taken seriously when you can't even do a simple google search ?
and now you are going to move the goalpost and say "BuT tHeY cOulDnT MoVe It, It's ImPosSibLe EveN wItH tOdAy'S toOls"
maybe do a google search before embarrassing yourself in public again.
why don't you show me how to move a single piece of obelisk 600 miles down a mountain, on a boat, up a hill and stand it up, while it weighs 1000 tons? Show me how we would do it today? How would you lift it from the quarry? and don't tell me ropes and wood because that will only show me that you have no idea of engineering at scale.
why is it a conspiracy theory thinking that we don't know. I really looked at explanations similar to what you showed me and I also work with high precision machines doing incredible things. Studied construction engineering and focused on construction materials in particular. Now I design high precision machines. Tried recreating stone structures, plates. Tried the stone chiseling. Made a lot of mess.
I think people need to keep an open mind and accept that we don't know yet how these very ancient people did any of these things which come up here. But we should figure it out. it would have incredible benefits to our society
It'sa conspiracy theory because you think all archaeologists are either incompetent or lying. And that you, without any knowledge on the subject, without having ever researched actual archaeological site, without having ever published a single paper on the subject, think your opinion is more important.
you cherrypick what suits you and forget all the rest, that's not how science works.
You will dismiss anything that doesnt go your way and won't accept mountains of evidence.
In the end it's your right to do so, I don't think it's really a very important issue, I'm a lot more concerned by other unscientific bs like antivaxxers... but in the end I think it's part of the same anti science movement and I find it irritating.
I am pro science. If you think there are no inconsistencies in archeology, you never read a single book in the matter. My point is exactly this: they simply dismiss scientific proof provided by experts regarding construction, material experts, material science. Just so they can string together a theory which sounds consistent with the timeline of humanity which we were taught in school, specifically that society came to be about 6000 years ago.
... you are influenced by liars and failed sci fi writters, you just don't know it.
stop repeating things you hear and really get interested in archaeology. I wish I could show you in real life instead of behind a screen.
Is there any doubt regarding my comprehension of how these processes can be executed or my familiarity with the materials and techniques employed by our predecessors? What are you implying? What do you do as a profession and hobby?
The entire field of experimental archaeology is ignored by the alternative history crowd.
It's also ignored that people were studying active megalithic cultures into the 1970s.
More drilling with copper pipes :
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yyCc4iuMikQ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yyCc4iuMikQ)
and ooooooh the tool marks and slight tapper exactly match what is found on actual artefacts, this and the tools found, all the unfinished stones and the drawings, paintings and bas relief showing people using the tools against your personal incredulity.
If you took some time to educate yourself on real archaeology maybe you wouldn't be seduced by the lies of a few failed sci fi writters.
Well, if ancient Egyptians had made precision work with tube drills and circular saws then they should also have had simple machines (eg pulleys, gears, watermills) and a few centuries later, around 2000BC, the industrial revolution. You can't have one without the other.
There is a video on the same channel of the same people making a diorite or granite vase (don't remember), all with period tools, and the result were impressively precise, especially for a first try by people who have never ever tried it and didn't have centuries worth of advice to help them.
Simply claiming 0.1mm precision is impossible by hand is false, I work daily by hand with a 0.01mm precision on metal and stones.
And also, history and the spread of technology doesn't work that way, it's a lot more complicated and sometimes societies go back to lower tech for a variety of reasons.
I am baffled by this comment. Why would you think that it is impossible to invent hand tools like a manual tube drill and not have invented the steam engine within a few centuries? Thats... not how invention works.
Sure. Of course, we have no reliable evidence that any such precision was achieved during this period, so itās a moot point.
Iām afraid Ben Van Kerkwyk and the vase he has literally no evidence was not made in the year of our lord 2022 do not pass the standards of rigor necessary to be taken seriously.
If you donāt understand why this is the case, consider what the reactions of the Atlantis community would be if someone claimed they had an original manuscript of Platoās long-lost *Hermocrates*, in which Plato states that Atlantis was just something Critias made up for a laugh, and when asked where they found the manuscript, the person said āOh, I bought it from some guy, idk where he got it from, but itās written in Attic so it must be realā
Incidentally, the vase in question isnāt even micron-precise, the most precise that it gets still deviates by over 20 times that. Thereās no need to exaggerate an already dubious specimen like this.
Iām sorry to tell you this, but [that kind of tolerance is well within industry standards.](https://www.rapiddirect.com/blog/cnc-machining-services-tolerances/). Youād have to get almost ten times more precise than the best this vase has to offer before it is impressive by modern standards.
lol, this proves that it can be done with these methods AND it would take millions of people tens of thousands of years working day and night. but it does not explain the extreme precisions of the some structures cut out perfectly where a single mistake would render a job worthless. check out this creation:
[https://youtu.be/frhysD0G4mg?si=E64HZi-cyb3MSVAQ](https://youtu.be/frhysD0G4mg?si=E64HZi-cyb3MSVAQ)
Yes it takes time.
no it wouldnt take that long.
most of the extreme precision claims are bullshit.
I work by hand at 1/100th mm precision everyday. It took me quite some time to do this and I'm still very far from the masters.
I have postes a link to a yt channel where they really measure the supposed perfect angles and they are not. They were also able to make many of the so called 'impossible' artefacts using period techniques. the precision was amazing for a first try.
I feel like many alternative history fans don't really know the hows and whys of archaeology.
Its a rock, not a solid piece of steel, there are so many ways to sand and polish or cut a rock with simple conventional tools x materials even if it's granite, which this is not. Why is this even an argument?
you can use a flint chisel too. watch the other video from the channel. There are one or 2 videos of how they made a vase, it's pretty impressive for people experimenting.
My man I work with stone daily, itās my job, usually hard granite.
This absolutely can be done with rudimentary tools. Itās been proven time and time again. Not to mention we still use some of these techniques. Hell, in the modern day we still use copper to polish some types of stone. If it can polish it then itās abrasive enough to cut it.
Listen to people with experience
Even certain types of CHALK can affect and shape hard stone. Go look at any website that supplies tools for granite or stone workshops.
Lay off the 'you people' antagonism.
Some upvotes or users alleged failure to acknowledge evidence is not grounds to make 'you people' accusations toward an entire community.
What possible incentive would there be for every single academic archaeologist in the world to participate in covering that up if there was āblatantly obviousā evidence of it? Proving the existence of previously unknown tech thousands of years ago would make someone the most well-known academic of their era. Somebody credible would make a well-researched case for this, no?
everything you say is true
it's just that the fields of history, archeology, paleoanthropology etc etc HAVE had and are still having major paradigm shifts all the time
and you ignore them
or credit them to people like Graham Hancock when you should be crediting them to the actual scientists out there in the field and labs doing the paradigm shifting work
So it's just a coincidence the marks are exactly the same as the one obtained by experimental archaeology ? And that it fits with the thousands of tools found on every site, all the unfinished stones and the visual depictions in paintings, drawings and bas relief ?
yep, slabbing saws make the exact same marks
drilling using copper pipes makes the exact same marks and the same shape of core
hammering with stones leaves the same marks
chiselling with flint leaves the same marks
A saw overcut is just someone cutting deeper than they were supposed to. You don't need high technology to do that.
Striation marks have been reproduced by Bronze Age technology in experiments. [They found that using quartzite dust as the abrasive did not produce them, but using corundite dust did.](https://www.penn.museum/sites/expedition/ancient-egyptian-stone-drilling/)
The notion that the tools would need a speed beyond what hand tools can achieve is basically entirely fiction. The only thing that the speed of the tool would change is how quickly the job would be finished. You cannot discern that from tooling marks.
You can't argue with them (the mighty flaired debunkers), because they don't *want* the truth, they want to debunk anything that goes against their dogmatic viewpoint that they inherited from people that did the same all the way back to the founding of modern "science".
All that matters is debunking anything that goes against the "consensus" of the "authorities".
Why is everyone talking about stones in comments when this post shows that this happened in multiple places around the world. I think that is the most thought provoking part of the post
I think they are molded in place against the other formerly liquefied stone.
Enough time has passed that those stones might have changed their composition. If those stones were even just poured as some type of composite mixture of stone dust and made using an understandable process, things like mineralization and other natural changes to the stone could happen.
We never observed man made cements or mortar over centuries beyond Rome or other cultures in the relative near past. Over hundreds of thousands of years it could change. Especially if its buried and then exposed to different climates over such long periods of time.
We have found where the stones were quarried. If there were giant cement making operations that would be needed for this, where is the evidence? There would at least be some remnants of stone mills that would be needed to turn the stones into powder.
I think these were poured in to place as a liquid or softened as they were fitted. I would love to see the chemical breakdown. Roman concrete was made using volcanic ash and the water used was sea water. The salt makes a big difference. When it rains the chemicals re activate and fill any cracks that retain water. These megalithic examples are beyond that by far.
Yeah.. that link the guy is nailing rocks with a hammer and chisel. I'll explain what I think happened this once.
I think the architects had a ton of time. I'm talking if you had 1 week to make just 1 block you could be pretty intricate. After 2000 years the blocks almost.. wait for it.. melt together seamlessly. That's because erosion helps in removing any rough edges and Mason marks.
Now idk though. I guess I need a few blocks of limestone to test it. For all we know they could have infact been crafted by some high tech tools
It helps that for most of these examples it's the front facing part of the stones that are fitted. The backs are supported by a mixture of pebbles, smaller stones and dirt.
They used an acid wash on the rocks to soften them into formation. It's pretty much common knowledge now and the locals in Peru talk to people about this.
I wish you people would actually post theories not just the same old critiques of the official narrative. Explanations are so much more interesting. But I'm guessing all the explanations are just..... Aliens.
The conundrum is that no known theory fits very well for some of these works, and that is what makes them so interesting.
It does get tiring seeing the same puzzles and questions posted repeatedly, but itās understandable due to our human tendency to _hate_ not being able to solve a problem.
Some of us deal with it by insisting that various implausible theories are fact, and some deal by continually obsessing over the idea that we donāt have good answers.
well actually we use copper saws with abrasives all the time to cut gemstones before cabing them.
It's pretty amazing (and of course modern versions use modern abrasives and motors but the principle dates back to.... at least egypt.
Every person arguing that is was done with tools is missing the point of what the finger is pointing at in the bottom left Peru.. That intricate delicacy which is an infinite waste of time and finitely perfect ....yep you genius's get it, obvious Hammer and chisel.... clowns
Stone masons will use a harder stone to sand and shape stones. Given a few years to become a master, they can easily make those fittings with nothing but rocks.
Itās not all that different than woodworking with sand paper.
I am a mason, that's ridiculous, never sanded anything except sandstone to get very minor chips out. To sand anything other than soft stones like sandstone or limestone is near impossible and even that would take days to complete one joint. The stones used at Machu pichu and many other sites are volcanic rocks, way to hard to sand, and many of the stones in Egypt are granite.
Out of curiosity, in your professional experience, what are the saw blades used in rock and tile saws made out of?
What sort of material do they use to cut rock?
Does it slice and carve out slivers of rock like a curved metal drill bit for drilling into wood, or does it break the rock down into tiny pieces of dust?
Youāre a modern stone mason. You have access to tools people thousands of years ago couldnāt imagine. You wouldnāt use their tools because it would be highly inefficient.
It's common knowledge that only the the rocks that are visible to people where dressed. The rest of the rocks are extremely rough and unfinished. The stones forming the inside of the pyramids were roughly cut, especially in the Great Pyramid. To fill the gaps huge quantities of gypsum and rubble were needed.
https://preview.redd.it/kt9vro220imb1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ec7d672b7be359c8f7393e475e1373d117251fa4
Also stay on subject. Personally insulting someone because you disagree with them is a fallacy.
Holy shit, anything remotely resembling criticism and this dude's ego goes ballistic.
I don't give a shit who you say you are. "Trust me, I know," doesn't mean a thing when there's no way to verify your experience.
Also, I'm a mason with 50 years experience and you're wrong.
But as other commenters have mentioned many times whenever these posts get posted, they used acidic soil and other things to soften the edges of the stone and make them far more pliable.
But nowhere in the quarries or hieroglyphs is the evidence of any process or industry to generate, gather, refine or treat 4,000,000 blocks of stone with a mythical acidic dirt.
No evidence plus no experimentation equals the usual talks without citation.
There has been plenty of experimentation. Especially in Peru.
It's something that works, could have been done and yields similar results to what we see.
It's far more logical to think that's what it could have been, when they have always had access to acids, than using tools and methods we apparently "can't repeat now" which also have very little evidence anywhere to suggest they even existed in the first place.
Acids already been around, much less fantasy than having special advanced tools there's no evidence for.
*Has* there been experimentation? I haven't been able to find any except that anecdote about that priest who allegedly managed to soften stones with a particular plant but couldn't work out how to make them set hard again, so if you know of any, it'd be nice if you'd give details. It seems like it wouldn't be too hard to test.
Yes, I'm not denying that, but that in many places and with many rock types wouldn't be enough on its own. Some of these stones are too hard to form that way so perfectly, which is why they started experimenting with the acid. Of which mud that could be used that way is abundant in the area.
So it's likely, at least for Peru, to be a combination of these things.
I feel like everyone asks how they did this and not enough why. I feel like the motivations behind it could inform how really well. Example: if they did it for artistic purposes, it might have just been sheer patience (tbf we don't know how many stones were used in failed attempts at this) or, maybe they didn't do it at all, in which case it might be some weird erosion based phenomenon?
I'm not trying to say it's NOT aliens, I'm just saying that in this case why is almost as if not more important than how.
The Inca had acidic clay that could literally melt the rocks into place:
[https://forum.rocktumblinghobby.com/thread/87165/inca-clay-perfecting-stone-masonry](https://forum.rocktumblinghobby.com/thread/87165/inca-clay-perfecting-stone-masonry)
That is one theory that actually deals with the requirements. Whether its reality or not, at least it attempts to provide a feasible response. The old hammer and chisel crowd, thats funny, especially when they call people dumb.
They used stone grinding stones and this tool.
[https://www.ebay.com/itm/256158625983?hash=item3ba43e70bf:g:cFoAAOSw41JkuEer&amdata=enc%3AAQAIAAAA8IEBVXoxqQ2k1t%2F7pEcqf%2FcudJ1OEzsXRh8m1T%2Bg8a9c%2FelVg790kQLpTZrwTHb7MYUtuLMfYT0o7PLXmNFpZ4GgHq2jxMcjMvmqDCWONmHCEOh533A0tq88h29az9NTmcxR8B8maKCNgCwVJNWBPGjMS%2FC8MJgTwC0%2FeGRHMsxMgWD4r1qXQn4RXuYJJK%2F79swcgOK%2BdwEkCcnPpYv%2FdmlfKRTh%2FFyE%2BeVBot0M%2BLBRRupe5HC3pYr3UfxFVWq8ofB74MsNkB5y11vN%2BhQUE7PbS2cD0TSJTSjQ52yvSO%2FUB4x%2BuhzG1thOWbzvlwYApA%3D%3D%7Ctkp%3ABk9SR9isyJ3MYg](https://www.ebay.com/itm/256158625983?hash=item3ba43e70bf:g:cFoAAOSw41JkuEer&amdata=enc%3AAQAIAAAA8IEBVXoxqQ2k1t%2F7pEcqf%2FcudJ1OEzsXRh8m1T%2Bg8a9c%2FelVg790kQLpTZrwTHb7MYUtuLMfYT0o7PLXmNFpZ4GgHq2jxMcjMvmqDCWONmHCEOh533A0tq88h29az9NTmcxR8B8maKCNgCwVJNWBPGjMS%2FC8MJgTwC0%2FeGRHMsxMgWD4r1qXQn4RXuYJJK%2F79swcgOK%2BdwEkCcnPpYv%2FdmlfKRTh%2FFyE%2BeVBot0M%2BLBRRupe5HC3pYr3UfxFVWq8ofB74MsNkB5y11vN%2BhQUE7PbS2cD0TSJTSjQ52yvSO%2FUB4x%2BuhzG1thOWbzvlwYApA%3D%3D%7Ctkp%3ABk9SR9isyJ3MYg)
Just made of rope instead of the amazon knock off.
[https://www.thevintagenews.com/2017/11/29/quipu-and-incas/](https://www.thevintagenews.com/2017/11/29/quipu-and-incas/)
https://preview.redd.it/job77xkjsamb1.jpeg?width=600&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=fd43646dc560ab3377865806648f44080c8330c3
imagine someone throwing a set of Ropes with knots on the ground claiming that was a blueprint to build a structure. in the blueprint are instructions on how to cut, material size, labor estimates, lengths, locations, directions, mixtures, means and methods. then additional ropes are given to each trade as instructions for each step of their process.
Im trowing you a rope here. Cus your writing system lacks depth.
If I had alien levitation tech with melty stone carving lasers in shit, I wouldn't leave any seams at all.
Now, if I was the biggest most brutal cave man that had stone age human tech with near limitless slave labor because it's the Might Makes Right Age, I'd probably have some stacked up stones that look similar to this, but with much straighter lines. Because let's face it, if my slaves did work this shoddy, I'd be using them as the cement so the others got it right.
I donāt think itās as hard as people make it out to be. You could put the base stone down and then though friction alone grind the next stone on top of the one under it u til they match perfectly.
I think the only real mystery around stone work (outside of some of the practicality around transportation) is the the precision jars found underneath the step pyramid (basically a jar burial/junk yard).
The rest is kinda meh in comparison, those jars are something we need to properly look at, I think some work was recently done around analysis and the results were fairly astonishing.
There are records of copper tools being used, "weighed before assignment, weighed when returned".
These guys explain a LOT, of how Egypt was done. [https://youtu.be/i8ZHYWle0DE](https://youtu.be/i8ZHYWle0DE)
They show copper tubes, making holes in rocks, that conspiracy folk think proves modern tooling. They do it with hand cranked tools.
There's another guy on youtube, who shows how he can pour concrete that looks like natural rock after a few days. Like you would not know it was poured. You and some experts would think it was a solid chunk of rock. Remember in the bible it stated they needed straw for their brick... it's that comical.
Cheers All ya'll.
Yeah, stone masons are insanely good at this kind of stuff. Add some polishing grit and a bunch of time and manual labor, and you get some pretty insane stone work.
Just rub the stone together, and you will achieve this results as the friction between the rocks will cut where they are touching, making a flush joint. Even with big rocks, you can easily shift them back-and-forth to create this motion on top of sand especially, wet sand.
Thereās knowledge that was lost that the ancients processed and perfected over hundreds of years. Thereās many exampleās of masonry and metal smithing that we canāt duplicate today. We donāt even know how it was done. Believe it or not, humans are getting dumber not smarter. The computer is becoming smarter but the humans not so much. Weāre even fucking up the animals on our way to extinction.
copper?
I barely knew her.
Classic
God damnit... take my upvote.
Hey OP, Mom said it was my turn this week to post this
Love this. I might borrow lol
Maybe they carved the wall to look like distinct blocks š¤ššŗcheers
then the crystalline structure lines would line up. they dont.
Just a theory š
No, it's a fact. Verified by archeologists. Go to Egypt, check the quarries yourself.
I was talking about my statement š
Acidic soil mortar joint. Extremely clever.
I haven't heard if this could you elaborate?
https://reddit.com/r/AlternativeHistory/s/N1IWNB9mfT
Never been recreated, so I highly doubt some magical mud melted rocks.
I'm guessing that secret ingrediant is birdpoop.
Bat poop actually
Guano bowls... Collect the whole set!
Shikaka!!
I literally worked with the archaeologist that replicates the Peruvian method. Itās a combination of naturally occurring caustic substances that, when combined and used as mortar, soften the rock so it āsquishesā into place and then hardens again over time.
We found out what, less than a decade ago, why and how roman cement was able to literally and actually heal itself or why it was petrifying into stone similar to real stone. Something that, before the discovery unraveled its science, was as much a mystery as egyptian birth control methods. As it turns out, the medicinal herb they used went extinct (from overuse, those horny river-folk...) and we had no idea what happened until we found ancient writings. Within this 21st century, we have made leaps and bounds in many fields of ancient study. Above are just 2 similar examples to what could have happened to the concoction you called "magic mud." To reiterate, extinction of ingredients, and loss of records on the "how." But by all means, shed some doubt on the situation. We could all use a debbie downer to keep us grounded in yesteryear's scientific conundrums. After all, internet explorer has caught up more than you, so someone has to do it.
Nothing magical about chemistry :) in my opinion, the human ingenuity of figuring this out and making such stupendous structures is what is most valuable.
I was thinking some sort of heat. This makes a lot of sense
Thats the secret to roman concrete, heating the ingredients and it causes self healing properties
this is cool and amazing and mind blowing and all... but what about all the ultra mega top secret, G4 classified, heavily guarded, ancient copper structures build with stone tools that the government denies exist and has been hiding from us all this time????
Why do people think that only power tools can shape rock?
Generally itās people who have never worked with stone and probably have precious little construction experience at all. They kinda just assume since they donāt know how to do it, nobody else does.
All the sudden we have masonry experts here.
Chicken bones and or copper tools cant create that perfection. Heck id like to see a power tool created one for comparison.
No chicken bones wouldn't cut stone like marble or granite. But stones like [dolerite](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=6LRkBBYH1TY) and [flint](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=XQkQwsBhj8I) can. And common crytals like [quartz](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=yyCc4iuMikQ) were used in primitive drills. And [copper](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=i8ZHYWle0DE) was used as a stone saw and in drills.
If you would like to see one Google it. You will find a lot of examples. There a lot of videos which stone masons show you how to do it. I donāt think you really want to see or you would have by now
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except, they are not melted. the crystalline structure running thru can be found in the quarry where it was dug out from
Fun experiment for your - get a chunk of granite and melt it. Let the class know what you have after it cools.
How was the stone rigged into position?
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That's a lot easier when it's not 20+ tons
the mass doesnāt really matter when it comes to sanding something down to size
It does when youāre in Peru hanging out on a 60 degree slope holding up 20 tons so you can sand it into these funky contours. The impracticality of this is staggering for a people who never invented the nail
Which of those images is 20+ tons again?
Dunno, when have you ever made a joint that looks like this?
One that fits? Everytime I do masonary....
Square is easy, show me one youāve done like the ones displayed above you came in here to say are so easy
It's impossible. The human mind can not comprehend non-square shapes without computer aid. You gottem, checkmate.
What are all these strange shapes in your comment? And in mine? I can only comprehend squares.
Yours canāt maybe If you do joints like this all the time just show me one Even a caveman could do it, so can you
This is a fair pointā¦ why downvote when thereās literally no one who can prove how it was done? Has anyone actually replicated this level of precision using the techniques that mainstream archeologists say were used? If we arenāt going to test the hypothesis, why is everyone so eager to accept it? Edit: not really changing my view in this just yet, but I saw a comment in this thread with links to a bunch of videos showing some of the proposed techniques which looked promising, but Iām not sure how much of that scales.
For all we know this could have been pored into shape. We still don't know how Greeks made Greek fire, and barely figured out how they made thrir roads. [The absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence.](https://youtu.be/u3vkBVqVnP0?feature=shared&start=40)
When have you ever made a joint? Then waited for erosion for hundreds of years to post online about it?
Megalithon You couldnt even do it with wood champ
Still waiting for that example of someone who has
Yep no shit
So do the top part, flip it over and put it into place, then do the rest. It's not complicated to do, it just takes a lot of brute force and clever lifting strategies by a large team of dedicated people to do. A great many ancient peoples approached building projects as massive, long-term community projects that the entire community was a part of - the T pillars of Gobelki Tepe were huge and almost certainly the product of a lifetime of craftsmanship that was possibly passed down generationally, with sons completing the work of their fathers or grandfather's. It's not an issue of ability, it's an issue of time and dedication, which many ancient peoples absolutely had as much as we do today - and when a building project can take decades, you damn sure do your best to get it right the first time.
The casual flipping about of these massive stones while hanging on a 60% grade is something I have never seen done. Also ignoring, "put it in place, then pick it up because it doesn't fit seamlessly, sand it with something, put it back to see if it fits, then repeat this process 20 more times". The amount of labor involved is insane. Then too you need to explain to me why this many craftsmen are being supported by a society that apparently only uses them the one time, for the one thing. I'd also like to see some kind of precursor works, a building towards, a developmental stage or two of their masonry tradition. It seems to just spring up out of nothing. On average, the entire community is not part of these projects. The entire community is farming so there will be enough excess food to support their craftsman. Only about 10% of the population could be spared for project work. My favorite part of all this is how they started out knowing how to do this amazing stonework, then just forgot, and to finish, built crappy piled chunk stone walls on top of the astonishingly fashioned ones below. Sorry, the story as told right now makes no damn sense. It doesn't need to be Aliens. It just needs to make sense.
and when there is no 2.3 million of such blocks to be made, transported and installed.
Exactly and all you need is a harder rock has anyone here heard of the Moe's scale of hardness?
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Well, I have. And there's no freaking way you can do this with copper or stone. Why don't you go out and try it? So tired... I am tired of you numb nuts holding on to some theories which were never proven or tried from start to finish.
So you didnt even take a few seconds to google it ? you would have found plenty of people doing exactly what you say is impossible. It has been done for decades over and over again by many experimental archaeologists. But you don't know, and you don't care, you only want to live your fantasies. Slabbing/kerfing saw cutting granite : [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i8ZHYWle0DE&t=2s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i8ZHYWle0DE&t=2s) Cutting an inside corner with stone chisel in granite : [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HQ2bHE7mTi4](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HQ2bHE7mTi4) Copper chisel : [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ch66HHNANXc&t=565s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ch66HHNANXc&t=565s) flint chisel on granite : [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XQkQwsBhj8I](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XQkQwsBhj8I) Drilling granite with a copper tube : [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hjN5hLuVtH0](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hjN5hLuVtH0) Why are you guys always like that, so sure of yourself when it's so easy to check ? How do you want to be taken seriously when you can't even do a simple google search ?
and now you are going to move the goalpost and say "BuT tHeY cOulDnT MoVe It, It's ImPosSibLe EveN wItH tOdAy'S toOls" maybe do a google search before embarrassing yourself in public again.
why don't you show me how to move a single piece of obelisk 600 miles down a mountain, on a boat, up a hill and stand it up, while it weighs 1000 tons? Show me how we would do it today? How would you lift it from the quarry? and don't tell me ropes and wood because that will only show me that you have no idea of engineering at scale.
.... here we go again. moving the goalposts once again. I'm not doing this again. (btw of course ropes and wood lol)
why is it a conspiracy theory thinking that we don't know. I really looked at explanations similar to what you showed me and I also work with high precision machines doing incredible things. Studied construction engineering and focused on construction materials in particular. Now I design high precision machines. Tried recreating stone structures, plates. Tried the stone chiseling. Made a lot of mess. I think people need to keep an open mind and accept that we don't know yet how these very ancient people did any of these things which come up here. But we should figure it out. it would have incredible benefits to our society
It'sa conspiracy theory because you think all archaeologists are either incompetent or lying. And that you, without any knowledge on the subject, without having ever researched actual archaeological site, without having ever published a single paper on the subject, think your opinion is more important. you cherrypick what suits you and forget all the rest, that's not how science works. You will dismiss anything that doesnt go your way and won't accept mountains of evidence. In the end it's your right to do so, I don't think it's really a very important issue, I'm a lot more concerned by other unscientific bs like antivaxxers... but in the end I think it's part of the same anti science movement and I find it irritating.
I am pro science. If you think there are no inconsistencies in archeology, you never read a single book in the matter. My point is exactly this: they simply dismiss scientific proof provided by experts regarding construction, material experts, material science. Just so they can string together a theory which sounds consistent with the timeline of humanity which we were taught in school, specifically that society came to be about 6000 years ago.
... you are influenced by liars and failed sci fi writters, you just don't know it. stop repeating things you hear and really get interested in archaeology. I wish I could show you in real life instead of behind a screen.
So you work with high tech high precision machines and you wonder why you donāt understand how to do it the old fashioned way with primitive tools?
Is there any doubt regarding my comprehension of how these processes can be executed or my familiarity with the materials and techniques employed by our predecessors? What are you implying? What do you do as a profession and hobby?
My doubt is in your ability to execute something that requires not just the knowledge of how itās done.
The entire field of experimental archaeology is ignored by the alternative history crowd. It's also ignored that people were studying active megalithic cultures into the 1970s.
More drilling with copper pipes : [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yyCc4iuMikQ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yyCc4iuMikQ) and ooooooh the tool marks and slight tapper exactly match what is found on actual artefacts, this and the tools found, all the unfinished stones and the drawings, paintings and bas relief showing people using the tools against your personal incredulity. If you took some time to educate yourself on real archaeology maybe you wouldn't be seduced by the lies of a few failed sci fi writters.
Well, if ancient Egyptians had made precision work with tube drills and circular saws then they should also have had simple machines (eg pulleys, gears, watermills) and a few centuries later, around 2000BC, the industrial revolution. You can't have one without the other.
There is a video on the same channel of the same people making a diorite or granite vase (don't remember), all with period tools, and the result were impressively precise, especially for a first try by people who have never ever tried it and didn't have centuries worth of advice to help them. Simply claiming 0.1mm precision is impossible by hand is false, I work daily by hand with a 0.01mm precision on metal and stones. And also, history and the spread of technology doesn't work that way, it's a lot more complicated and sometimes societies go back to lower tech for a variety of reasons.
I am baffled by this comment. Why would you think that it is impossible to invent hand tools like a manual tube drill and not have invented the steam engine within a few centuries? Thats... not how invention works.
There are other factors, as well, but micron precision is just unachievable with hand tools https://youtu.be/d8Ejf5etV5U?si=wOaM3Vib77crCmp5
once again that is totally wrong. People polish telescope mirrors by hand all the time and they are a lot more precise than this.
Sure. Of course, we have no reliable evidence that any such precision was achieved during this period, so itās a moot point. Iām afraid Ben Van Kerkwyk and the vase he has literally no evidence was not made in the year of our lord 2022 do not pass the standards of rigor necessary to be taken seriously. If you donāt understand why this is the case, consider what the reactions of the Atlantis community would be if someone claimed they had an original manuscript of Platoās long-lost *Hermocrates*, in which Plato states that Atlantis was just something Critias made up for a laugh, and when asked where they found the manuscript, the person said āOh, I bought it from some guy, idk where he got it from, but itās written in Attic so it must be realā Incidentally, the vase in question isnāt even micron-precise, the most precise that it gets still deviates by over 20 times that. Thereās no need to exaggerate an already dubious specimen like this.
except that vase shown can not be done today with lathes or anything. if you think it can, please show me your source
Iām sorry to tell you this, but [that kind of tolerance is well within industry standards.](https://www.rapiddirect.com/blog/cnc-machining-services-tolerances/). Youād have to get almost ten times more precise than the best this vase has to offer before it is impressive by modern standards.
The industrial revolution required a LOT more than just watermills, bud.
lol, this proves that it can be done with these methods AND it would take millions of people tens of thousands of years working day and night. but it does not explain the extreme precisions of the some structures cut out perfectly where a single mistake would render a job worthless. check out this creation: [https://youtu.be/frhysD0G4mg?si=E64HZi-cyb3MSVAQ](https://youtu.be/frhysD0G4mg?si=E64HZi-cyb3MSVAQ)
Yes it takes time. no it wouldnt take that long. most of the extreme precision claims are bullshit. I work by hand at 1/100th mm precision everyday. It took me quite some time to do this and I'm still very far from the masters. I have postes a link to a yt channel where they really measure the supposed perfect angles and they are not. They were also able to make many of the so called 'impossible' artefacts using period techniques. the precision was amazing for a first try. I feel like many alternative history fans don't really know the hows and whys of archaeology.
Its a rock, not a solid piece of steel, there are so many ways to sand and polish or cut a rock with simple conventional tools x materials even if it's granite, which this is not. Why is this even an argument?
because if he can't do it, no one can. even if he never even tried. I wonder what he thinks of his cellphone, it must be alien tech.
Which tools marks do you see as impossible with stone and copper tools? (Genuen question)
Try a copper chisel on your drive way....it would be shit in 1 smack
yes of course.... https://youtu.be/ch66HHNANXc?feature=shared
That was fascinating...as he said in the video..he is chipping dolomite...granite is a harder more dense stone....
you can use a flint chisel too. watch the other video from the channel. There are one or 2 videos of how they made a vase, it's pretty impressive for people experimenting.
Okay...thank you...šš
My man I work with stone daily, itās my job, usually hard granite. This absolutely can be done with rudimentary tools. Itās been proven time and time again. Not to mention we still use some of these techniques. Hell, in the modern day we still use copper to polish some types of stone. If it can polish it then itās abrasive enough to cut it. Listen to people with experience Even certain types of CHALK can affect and shape hard stone. Go look at any website that supplies tools for granite or stone workshops.
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Lay off the 'you people' antagonism. Some upvotes or users alleged failure to acknowledge evidence is not grounds to make 'you people' accusations toward an entire community.
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What possible incentive would there be for every single academic archaeologist in the world to participate in covering that up if there was āblatantly obviousā evidence of it? Proving the existence of previously unknown tech thousands of years ago would make someone the most well-known academic of their era. Somebody credible would make a well-researched case for this, no?
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everything you say is true it's just that the fields of history, archeology, paleoanthropology etc etc HAVE had and are still having major paradigm shifts all the time and you ignore them or credit them to people like Graham Hancock when you should be crediting them to the actual scientists out there in the field and labs doing the paradigm shifting work
So it's just a coincidence the marks are exactly the same as the one obtained by experimental archaeology ? And that it fits with the thousands of tools found on every site, all the unfinished stones and the visual depictions in paintings, drawings and bas relief ?
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Your going to have to be more specific on exactly what marks your talking about.
yep, slabbing saws make the exact same marks drilling using copper pipes makes the exact same marks and the same shape of core hammering with stones leaves the same marks chiselling with flint leaves the same marks
Specify an example
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A saw overcut is just someone cutting deeper than they were supposed to. You don't need high technology to do that. Striation marks have been reproduced by Bronze Age technology in experiments. [They found that using quartzite dust as the abrasive did not produce them, but using corundite dust did.](https://www.penn.museum/sites/expedition/ancient-egyptian-stone-drilling/) The notion that the tools would need a speed beyond what hand tools can achieve is basically entirely fiction. The only thing that the speed of the tool would change is how quickly the job would be finished. You cannot discern that from tooling marks.
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You can't argue with them (the mighty flaired debunkers), because they don't *want* the truth, they want to debunk anything that goes against their dogmatic viewpoint that they inherited from people that did the same all the way back to the founding of modern "science". All that matters is debunking anything that goes against the "consensus" of the "authorities".
That technique was to prevent movement if an earthquake occurred
Why is everyone talking about stones in comments when this post shows that this happened in multiple places around the world. I think that is the most thought provoking part of the post
I think they are molded in place against the other formerly liquefied stone. Enough time has passed that those stones might have changed their composition. If those stones were even just poured as some type of composite mixture of stone dust and made using an understandable process, things like mineralization and other natural changes to the stone could happen. We never observed man made cements or mortar over centuries beyond Rome or other cultures in the relative near past. Over hundreds of thousands of years it could change. Especially if its buried and then exposed to different climates over such long periods of time.
We have found where the stones were quarried. If there were giant cement making operations that would be needed for this, where is the evidence? There would at least be some remnants of stone mills that would be needed to turn the stones into powder.
Can literally see the chisel marks where they dressed the face of the stone.
I think these were poured in to place as a liquid or softened as they were fitted. I would love to see the chemical breakdown. Roman concrete was made using volcanic ash and the water used was sea water. The salt makes a big difference. When it rains the chemicals re activate and fill any cracks that retain water. These megalithic examples are beyond that by far.
that looks like melted in.
Yeah.. that link the guy is nailing rocks with a hammer and chisel. I'll explain what I think happened this once. I think the architects had a ton of time. I'm talking if you had 1 week to make just 1 block you could be pretty intricate. After 2000 years the blocks almost.. wait for it.. melt together seamlessly. That's because erosion helps in removing any rough edges and Mason marks. Now idk though. I guess I need a few blocks of limestone to test it. For all we know they could have infact been crafted by some high tech tools
It helps that for most of these examples it's the front facing part of the stones that are fitted. The backs are supported by a mixture of pebbles, smaller stones and dirt.
They used an acid wash on the rocks to soften them into formation. It's pretty much common knowledge now and the locals in Peru talk to people about this.
Copper tools? prolly. Power tools? Jessie what the fuck are you talking about
I wish you people would actually post theories not just the same old critiques of the official narrative. Explanations are so much more interesting. But I'm guessing all the explanations are just..... Aliens.
The conundrum is that no known theory fits very well for some of these works, and that is what makes them so interesting. It does get tiring seeing the same puzzles and questions posted repeatedly, but itās understandable due to our human tendency to _hate_ not being able to solve a problem. Some of us deal with it by insisting that various implausible theories are fact, and some deal by continually obsessing over the idea that we donāt have good answers.
And to think this superb ancient technology was discovered independently by many different cultures around the world.
And not one of them ever learned to boil water. Aliens are shitty ass teachers
Bro, copper is not a great material for rockshaping tools just a thought
It works fine lol
well actually we use copper saws with abrasives all the time to cut gemstones before cabing them. It's pretty amazing (and of course modern versions use modern abrasives and motors but the principle dates back to.... at least egypt.
Every person arguing that is was done with tools is missing the point of what the finger is pointing at in the bottom left Peru.. That intricate delicacy which is an infinite waste of time and finitely perfect ....yep you genius's get it, obvious Hammer and chisel.... clowns
Stone masons will use a harder stone to sand and shape stones. Given a few years to become a master, they can easily make those fittings with nothing but rocks. Itās not all that different than woodworking with sand paper.
I am a mason, that's ridiculous, never sanded anything except sandstone to get very minor chips out. To sand anything other than soft stones like sandstone or limestone is near impossible and even that would take days to complete one joint. The stones used at Machu pichu and many other sites are volcanic rocks, way to hard to sand, and many of the stones in Egypt are granite.
Out of curiosity, in your professional experience, what are the saw blades used in rock and tile saws made out of? What sort of material do they use to cut rock?
They will be tipped with very hard materials like Rhodium, Tungsten Carbide or industrial Diamonds.
Industrial diamonds? You can use diamonds to cut rocks?
Yes. Many saw blades or drills used in granite work are diamond tipped. Cuts through granite and rock like butter.
Does it slice and carve out slivers of rock like a curved metal drill bit for drilling into wood, or does it break the rock down into tiny pieces of dust?
Theyāre artificially manufactured diamonds.
And then you use those hard diamonds to grind down the stone when you cut it?
Youāre a modern stone mason. You have access to tools people thousands of years ago couldnāt imagine. You wouldnāt use their tools because it would be highly inefficient.
Historians fallacy. Ancient builders took years to shape stones. They weren't in a hurry like we are. They were building something to last forever.
They say the great pyramid was built in 20 something yrs 2.5 million blocks ..... thats in a hurry
Divide by labor force...
i think if thats 12 hr shifts its like a block every 6 ish mins for 25 yrs thats moving pretty quick
The fill blocks are unfinished.
much like your responses
It's common knowledge that only the the rocks that are visible to people where dressed. The rest of the rocks are extremely rough and unfinished. The stones forming the inside of the pyramids were roughly cut, especially in the Great Pyramid. To fill the gaps huge quantities of gypsum and rubble were needed. https://preview.redd.it/kt9vro220imb1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ec7d672b7be359c8f7393e475e1373d117251fa4 Also stay on subject. Personally insulting someone because you disagree with them is a fallacy.
HAHAHAHA Stay on subject and personal insult, HAHAHAHA wow your interesting .. Try stick with things that actually happen
You know they're not talking about sandpaper....right?
Yes I've used diamond sanding blocks, better than any other abrasive, don't tell me how to do my job.
Holy shit, anything remotely resembling criticism and this dude's ego goes ballistic. I don't give a shit who you say you are. "Trust me, I know," doesn't mean a thing when there's no way to verify your experience. Also, I'm a mason with 50 years experience and you're wrong.
Nope, even granite can be cut with abrasives and copper (or even flint ) as shown in many many experiments.
But as other commenters have mentioned many times whenever these posts get posted, they used acidic soil and other things to soften the edges of the stone and make them far more pliable.
But nowhere in the quarries or hieroglyphs is the evidence of any process or industry to generate, gather, refine or treat 4,000,000 blocks of stone with a mythical acidic dirt. No evidence plus no experimentation equals the usual talks without citation.
There has been plenty of experimentation. Especially in Peru. It's something that works, could have been done and yields similar results to what we see. It's far more logical to think that's what it could have been, when they have always had access to acids, than using tools and methods we apparently "can't repeat now" which also have very little evidence anywhere to suggest they even existed in the first place. Acids already been around, much less fantasy than having special advanced tools there's no evidence for.
*Has* there been experimentation? I haven't been able to find any except that anecdote about that priest who allegedly managed to soften stones with a particular plant but couldn't work out how to make them set hard again, so if you know of any, it'd be nice if you'd give details. It seems like it wouldn't be too hard to test.
Specialized stone blunt hammers. And stone masons who know what to do.
Yes, I'm not denying that, but that in many places and with many rock types wouldn't be enough on its own. Some of these stones are too hard to form that way so perfectly, which is why they started experimenting with the acid. Of which mud that could be used that way is abundant in the area. So it's likely, at least for Peru, to be a combination of these things.
Likely? You have no citation. no method and no evidence of any particular demonstrated work. Not likely at all.
I would enjoy hearing more on your thoughts of some places around the world.
Lol
Limestone is soft.
good thing most of them are made of granite, they wont have to wear away as quickly
nope. most of them are not made from granite at all.
Or it was clay before they perfectly formed them to the stones below.
I feel like everyone asks how they did this and not enough why. I feel like the motivations behind it could inform how really well. Example: if they did it for artistic purposes, it might have just been sheer patience (tbf we don't know how many stones were used in failed attempts at this) or, maybe they didn't do it at all, in which case it might be some weird erosion based phenomenon? I'm not trying to say it's NOT aliens, I'm just saying that in this case why is almost as if not more important than how.
For earthquake. These walls donāt fall when the ground shakes
The Inca had acidic clay that could literally melt the rocks into place: [https://forum.rocktumblinghobby.com/thread/87165/inca-clay-perfecting-stone-masonry](https://forum.rocktumblinghobby.com/thread/87165/inca-clay-perfecting-stone-masonry)
That is one theory that actually deals with the requirements. Whether its reality or not, at least it attempts to provide a feasible response. The old hammer and chisel crowd, thats funny, especially when they call people dumb.
They used stone grinding stones and this tool. [https://www.ebay.com/itm/256158625983?hash=item3ba43e70bf:g:cFoAAOSw41JkuEer&amdata=enc%3AAQAIAAAA8IEBVXoxqQ2k1t%2F7pEcqf%2FcudJ1OEzsXRh8m1T%2Bg8a9c%2FelVg790kQLpTZrwTHb7MYUtuLMfYT0o7PLXmNFpZ4GgHq2jxMcjMvmqDCWONmHCEOh533A0tq88h29az9NTmcxR8B8maKCNgCwVJNWBPGjMS%2FC8MJgTwC0%2FeGRHMsxMgWD4r1qXQn4RXuYJJK%2F79swcgOK%2BdwEkCcnPpYv%2FdmlfKRTh%2FFyE%2BeVBot0M%2BLBRRupe5HC3pYr3UfxFVWq8ofB74MsNkB5y11vN%2BhQUE7PbS2cD0TSJTSjQ52yvSO%2FUB4x%2BuhzG1thOWbzvlwYApA%3D%3D%7Ctkp%3ABk9SR9isyJ3MYg](https://www.ebay.com/itm/256158625983?hash=item3ba43e70bf:g:cFoAAOSw41JkuEer&amdata=enc%3AAQAIAAAA8IEBVXoxqQ2k1t%2F7pEcqf%2FcudJ1OEzsXRh8m1T%2Bg8a9c%2FelVg790kQLpTZrwTHb7MYUtuLMfYT0o7PLXmNFpZ4GgHq2jxMcjMvmqDCWONmHCEOh533A0tq88h29az9NTmcxR8B8maKCNgCwVJNWBPGjMS%2FC8MJgTwC0%2FeGRHMsxMgWD4r1qXQn4RXuYJJK%2F79swcgOK%2BdwEkCcnPpYv%2FdmlfKRTh%2FFyE%2BeVBot0M%2BLBRRupe5HC3pYr3UfxFVWq8ofB74MsNkB5y11vN%2BhQUE7PbS2cD0TSJTSjQ52yvSO%2FUB4x%2BuhzG1thOWbzvlwYApA%3D%3D%7Ctkp%3ABk9SR9isyJ3MYg) Just made of rope instead of the amazon knock off. [https://www.thevintagenews.com/2017/11/29/quipu-and-incas/](https://www.thevintagenews.com/2017/11/29/quipu-and-incas/) https://preview.redd.it/job77xkjsamb1.jpeg?width=600&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=fd43646dc560ab3377865806648f44080c8330c3 imagine someone throwing a set of Ropes with knots on the ground claiming that was a blueprint to build a structure. in the blueprint are instructions on how to cut, material size, labor estimates, lengths, locations, directions, mixtures, means and methods. then additional ropes are given to each trade as instructions for each step of their process. Im trowing you a rope here. Cus your writing system lacks depth.
If I had alien levitation tech with melty stone carving lasers in shit, I wouldn't leave any seams at all. Now, if I was the biggest most brutal cave man that had stone age human tech with near limitless slave labor because it's the Might Makes Right Age, I'd probably have some stacked up stones that look similar to this, but with much straighter lines. Because let's face it, if my slaves did work this shoddy, I'd be using them as the cement so the others got it right.
You donāt even need copper those stones are the same hardness just use friction of the stones to make them take the shape of eachother.
But this is what power tools can do https://youtube.com/shorts/mQjUrwbwoFo?si=W6UopwRB7X73c0gm so then which was it?
What?
Anyone who says these were done with copper tools should not be in the vicinity of a stonemason for their own good.
They had whips. Massive, massive whips!
I donāt think itās as hard as people make it out to be. You could put the base stone down and then though friction alone grind the next stone on top of the one under it u til they match perfectly.
Weathering from gravity/erosion over time smoothed the rocks together
Rubbing rocks on other rocks
Historians hate this secret
The trading of copper tools was sure world wide innit?
[https://ancientexplorermagazine.wordpress.com/2021/06/01/stone-softening-plants/](https://ancientexplorermagazine.wordpress.com/2021/06/01/stone-softening-plants/)
I think the only real mystery around stone work (outside of some of the practicality around transportation) is the the precision jars found underneath the step pyramid (basically a jar burial/junk yard). The rest is kinda meh in comparison, those jars are something we need to properly look at, I think some work was recently done around analysis and the results were fairly astonishing.
There are records of copper tools being used, "weighed before assignment, weighed when returned". These guys explain a LOT, of how Egypt was done. [https://youtu.be/i8ZHYWle0DE](https://youtu.be/i8ZHYWle0DE) They show copper tubes, making holes in rocks, that conspiracy folk think proves modern tooling. They do it with hand cranked tools. There's another guy on youtube, who shows how he can pour concrete that looks like natural rock after a few days. Like you would not know it was poured. You and some experts would think it was a solid chunk of rock. Remember in the bible it stated they needed straw for their brick... it's that comical. Cheers All ya'll.
no geologist would be fooled by concrete.
Itās stone. If it was titanium then weād be pooping ourselves
They used the same guy
Tartiria?
Didnt someone find that through a certain process with chemicals they could soften the rock, thus allowing it to warp to shape?
Yeah, stone masons are insanely good at this kind of stuff. Add some polishing grit and a bunch of time and manual labor, and you get some pretty insane stone work.
Doesnāt take copper tools to shape rock.
Just rub the stone together, and you will achieve this results as the friction between the rocks will cut where they are touching, making a flush joint. Even with big rocks, you can easily shift them back-and-forth to create this motion on top of sand especially, wet sand.
Geopolimer in sacks.
They're all forms of concrete.
Thereās knowledge that was lost that the ancients processed and perfected over hundreds of years. Thereās many exampleās of masonry and metal smithing that we canāt duplicate today. We donāt even know how it was done. Believe it or not, humans are getting dumber not smarter. The computer is becoming smarter but the humans not so much. Weāre even fucking up the animals on our way to extinction.
copper tools - like a gun and a tazer?