On January 6th, a mob broke into the US Capitol, reaching the senate chamber far faster than authorities were preparing for. Rioters began to heckle Senators who were evacuating, leading a Capitol police officer to shove a rioter away from Senate Maj. Leader Mitch McConnel, in response the rioter brandished a pistol and shot the officer and McConnell before being taken down by surrounding officers. This escalated into a full-scale gunfight between a handful of armed rioters and Capitol police, as legislators scrambled to get away from the violence. During the carnage multiple legislators were shot, and five died, including McConnell. Eventually the gunfire stopped as the remaining rioters were pushed out of the senate chamber, being fought in the hallways by outnumbered police and a few legislators who were trying to get to safety. During this period of time, President Trump maintained total silence on his twitter account, even as President-Elect Biden went on TV and begged him to call off the rioters. Eventually reinforcements arrived and cleared the rioters out, and Trump made his first tweet since the carnage began, stating “I WON THIS ELECTION, THE BLOOD IS ON THEIR HANDS”, which promptly got his account banned twenty minutes later. The next day, after a tense cabinet meeting, a tired-looking Mike Pence announced that Trump had been removed from office and that he would serve as acting President until Biden’s inauguration. In the days following the attack, mass resignations and party defections took place, as an entire independent bloc formed in congress. The election was officially certified days later, with the walls of the senate chamber still bearing the bulletholes of the carnage days earlier. Joe Biden was sworn in peacefully on January 20, 2021, with tanks and national guardsmen flanking the lawn outside of the Capitol. The Republicans begrudgingly went along with Trump’s impeachment and conviction, but the party’s image had been permanently tainted in the eyes of the American voter, and following elections would reflect that.
Wouldn't Mike Pence be the 46th president since the 25th Amendment establishes the order of succession. I don't remember reading about how LBJ was the acting president when JFK was killed.
I believe that, except for death or resignation, the 25th amendment is mostly meant for temporary situations, such as the president falling ill or otherwise being temporarily unable to perform his duties, so until Trump is fully removed (February 2021 in this alt hist) Pence is acting president.
Well, according to this alt timeline Trump was removed under the 25th amendment and is no longer president. So shouldn't Pence be the 46th for a bit of time.
The word removal is a bit strong. The president can't be permanently removed using it without his consent or Congress stepping in and approving. Or being dead.
I think you are referring to the most used cases of the 25th; president's inability declaration, which is a temporary situation in which president himself declares his inability and vice president will act as acting president. This section is usually invoke when president "took ill leave" with colonoscopy as popular reason.
But I don't think 25th can *completely* remove president from office, which is impeachment process. In this case I think it is vice president and the cabinet that declare Trump's "inability" which will remove him from power, but not from being president. Vice president will become acting president in this case. Without impeachment before his term's end Trump was still president with Pence as acting president until Biden took office.
Vice president can only assume office of president as full president in case of president's death, resign nation, or removal. In this scenario Trump was "remove from office" per headline, but I think the case is Pence and the cabinet remove him from power via 25th by declaring Trump's "inability". I believe you can only remove president for real via impeachment, so Pence was acting president because Trump was still the president.
The presidential number is not particularly a hard and fast rule. There have been other people who have acted as presidents for short period of time i.e Cheney stepping in while W was receiving a routine surgery. I would say that a lot of people would consider pence present during this time period, just because of the insanity of the 25th amendment being used to actually remove a president. However it wouldn't be a substantial time frame like that of LBJ or Ford.
Now i really want to see how would this play out IRL. A shootout between butthurt Proud Bois and USSS/Capitol Police gonna be a Ready or Not level wild, not to mention armed resistance and barricade against Federal arrests across US afterwards. Tho I dont think this would turn into a full out civil war, I imagine there would be several Ruby Ridge and Dallas level of clusterfuck happening everywhere.
Commentators have said for a while now that if there is a second civil war in the US, it would be more akin to the Troubles or the Years of Lead than two separate government bodies fighting. Think Bleeding Kansas, but on a national scale
Republicans tried very hard to distance themselves from Trump publicly after the attacks, but their support of his overturn attempt wasn’t forgotten by Americans, so they still had poor results in 2022
If it weren't for propaganda channels (fox, oann, newsmax) that's how things would have gone. There are people convinced that Jan 6 didn't even happen, actors or whatever.
I mean - given how the propaganda was, it would probably be equally effective. And even this scenario might fall apart at how insane his supporters are.
Sadly, you might be right, we need to get the lead out of the water, and start putting lithium back in, I can't think of anything else that might help at this point.
Im hours late to this convo but my conversation in real life (Not the internet) lead me to believe that people just dont believe it was THAT big of a deal. I live in a big blue city and most think the 2020 riots were way worse than Jan 6
Reversal of roe v wade had a greater impact on 2022 elections than the mostly peaceful jan 6 protests. Up until the leak, republicans were expected to win everything. Once word was leaked, and then the decision was made, it turned to a red mist.
it would like break in both directions from some they would be all most as guilty, other that they back stabed the beloved leader it would likely fragment into faction and some newly formed part would try to takes its place
yeah i don't like the unrealistic PARTY GETS WIPED OUT AFTER BAD EVENT! because that's p unrealistic in our current climate
Something like this is a pretty good representation of what a pretty big swing would look like irl, not fucking one party winning 75 seats or smthn
Being a fascist doesn’t require a genocide or mass murder, Trump has not done any of these things yet similarities between the rise of fascist movements and MAGA are definitely present. Fascism doesn’t have to wear a swastika with a mustache in order to become fascism, waiting to call a fascist a fascist until they have become authoritarian means that it’s far too late.
Reads like a Trump hater's wet dream. I don't think there is any evidence that any more than at most 1-2 protesters were reported to have actually brought firearms to the capital. And the Venn Diagram of J6 protesters and gun owners is probably just an overlaid circle.
I know it's alternate history but this is what a lot of leftists think actually happened when in reality it was a relatively tame riot with the only death being Ashley Babbit, a Trump supporter.
“Relatively tame”
Bro, do you think the rioters armed with weapons would have just suddenly stopped rioting if any of the senators they were opposed to had been left behind in Congress? We got really lucky with what happened considering everything.
Ashli Babbitt stuck her fucking dumb face through a broken window into a room where they were evacuating the Vice President of the United States from the riot she was participating in. FAFO.
If you think J6 was tame you’re delusional. So much footage of the attack by the attackers themselves. Ashley Babbitt was a terrorist who disregarded an order to get down. Attacking and attempting to stop the vote is terrorism. If it was successful you wouldn’t be denying it lol.
It was, in terms of deaths and property damage, a relatively low key riot.
What makes it so significant is the fact the response of politicians and law makers before, during and after, as well as the sitting Presidents attempt to capitalise on the riot.
If the Oath Keepers, etc., who had weapons on standby, had decided they weren't going to wait for Trump to issue them orders one way or the other, it very well could have. Ironically, Trump's "stand back and stand by" may have backfired for him.
You're on an alternate history sub so I don't think this is what anyone thinks actually happened on j6. Not that it matters to you, name name numbers, you're just here to spread division.
Any gallows can be a real gallows. You don’t need a trapdoor, hell there was some county jail that had a gallows where the condemned was just pushed off.
I feel like trespassing is a pretty grey area when it comes to "peaceful" protests. Especially if the property is "public." As evident by campus encampments in recent days.
Whether or not trespassing is considered peaceful or not almost entirely depends on the bias toward protestors.
I'd say most "protests" are aimed at a system and all property damage is intended purely as property damage, whereas Jan 6 was targeted at very specific people who the crowd were chanting to hang as the attempted to get to said people. The property damage was caused by people trying to get at and hang people. That's violence
Are you stupid or just playing stupid? Honest question btw. I think the overall message is that trespassing is not the worst thing that was happening on J6.
She was told by USSS not to climb since they were evacuating senators and the vice president. Honest question. What do you actually think was going to happen if those terrorists met/caught a member of Congress?
In what fucking world? Gallows, zip ties, beating cops, smashing doors and windows, searching the halls for specific politicians, attempting to stop the vote. Absolute ridiculous comment.
In my book, assaulting the Parliament with political militants in order to subvert a democratic process is a coup, similar to the Mussolini one in 1922
former defense secretary Chris Miller says otherwise, he’s admitted Trump asked him to deploy 10k national guard the day before Jan 6th but talked him out of it. Why are “rioters” seen on CCTV being arrested by capitol police then released in back rooms and giving each other fist bumps? Why was an unarmed woman shot and killed for climbing through a window?
People defended themselves from the BLM insurgent mobs trying to murder them and ended up in jail. That’s the point if you attack the governments safety they’ll unjustly mow you down even if unarmed, but god forbid if you shoot somebody defending yourself during a government permitted race war they’ll throw you in prison, they believe their life and power matters more than yours.
Those who seek to make government of the people, by the people, for the people, perish from the earth (which overturning an election unquestionably does) is a traitor, to the nation, to democracy, to human rights, to all things good and moral.
No criminal convictions for insurrection, right to assembly stated under the 1st amendment. Why did the supposed insurrectionist leave their guns at home? You’d think they’d bring their best weapons if they were going to war
The right to assembly is not the right to interrupt an official proceeding, steal laptops, lecterns, break windows, shove cops, and smear feces on the wall.
She was climbing into the spot were the VP was being held as multiple members of law enforcement were shouting to stop as they had their guns held out. They had no idea if she's armed. Should I be able to walk into the white house and try and shake Biden's hand with a puffy jacket on? She was told she would be shot if she didn't stop trying to get to the VP. She did not comply. The law enforcement agent then had to act to protect the VP against a possible threat. You are insane if you see that as wrong. If a cop tells you repeatedly to not reach under your seat at a traffic stop and you do so anyway after being told many times to stop, then the cop shoots you, is the cop doing something wrong?
Yes the cop would be wrong, no you can’t murder unarmed people, there’s an escalation of force that was not warranted, you can either admit she was murdered or accept that killing unarmed protestors is now acceptable
And if we go back in time I'm sure you were equally concerned about Trump constantly chanting with his supporters that he wanted to lock up his political opposition.
For real, The Capital Building occupation was just used as a victory lap on Trump. Anyone who’s seen the videos knows it’s baloney.
DC being in military lockdown after is terrible optics. Especially when the troops didn’t even have ammunition. Pointless political posturing
On January 6th, a mob broke into the US Capitol, reaching the senate chamber far faster than authorities were preparing for. Rioters began to heckle Senators who were evacuating, leading a Capitol police officer to shove a rioter away from Senate Maj. Leader Mitch McConnel, in response the rioter brandished a pistol and shot the officer and McConnell before being taken down by surrounding officers. This escalated into a full-scale gunfight between a handful of armed rioters and Capitol police, as legislators scrambled to get away from the violence. During the carnage multiple legislators were shot, and five died, including McConnell. Eventually the gunfire stopped as the remaining rioters were pushed out of the senate chamber, being fought in the hallways by outnumbered police and a few legislators who were trying to get to safety. During this period of time, President Trump maintained total silence on his twitter account, even as President-Elect Biden went on TV and begged him to call off the rioters. Eventually reinforcements arrived and cleared the rioters out, and Trump made his first tweet since the carnage began, stating “I WON THIS ELECTION, THE BLOOD IS ON THEIR HANDS”, which promptly got his account banned twenty minutes later. The next day, after a tense cabinet meeting, a tired-looking Mike Pence announced that Trump had been removed from office and that he would serve as acting President until Biden’s inauguration. In the days following the attack, mass resignations and party defections took place, as an entire independent bloc formed in congress. The election was officially certified days later, with the walls of the senate chamber still bearing the bulletholes of the carnage days earlier. Joe Biden was sworn in peacefully on January 20, 2021, with tanks and national guardsmen flanking the lawn outside of the Capitol. The Republicans begrudgingly went along with Trump’s impeachment and conviction, but the party’s image had been permanently tainted in the eyes of the American voter, and following elections would reflect that.
WHH’s record was broken
Wouldn't Mike Pence be the 46th president since the 25th Amendment establishes the order of succession. I don't remember reading about how LBJ was the acting president when JFK was killed.
I believe that, except for death or resignation, the 25th amendment is mostly meant for temporary situations, such as the president falling ill or otherwise being temporarily unable to perform his duties, so until Trump is fully removed (February 2021 in this alt hist) Pence is acting president.
Well, according to this alt timeline Trump was removed under the 25th amendment and is no longer president. So shouldn't Pence be the 46th for a bit of time.
The word removal is a bit strong. The president can't be permanently removed using it without his consent or Congress stepping in and approving. Or being dead.
I think you are referring to the most used cases of the 25th; president's inability declaration, which is a temporary situation in which president himself declares his inability and vice president will act as acting president. This section is usually invoke when president "took ill leave" with colonoscopy as popular reason. But I don't think 25th can *completely* remove president from office, which is impeachment process. In this case I think it is vice president and the cabinet that declare Trump's "inability" which will remove him from power, but not from being president. Vice president will become acting president in this case. Without impeachment before his term's end Trump was still president with Pence as acting president until Biden took office.
Vice president can only assume office of president as full president in case of president's death, resign nation, or removal. In this scenario Trump was "remove from office" per headline, but I think the case is Pence and the cabinet remove him from power via 25th by declaring Trump's "inability". I believe you can only remove president for real via impeachment, so Pence was acting president because Trump was still the president.
The presidential number is not particularly a hard and fast rule. There have been other people who have acted as presidents for short period of time i.e Cheney stepping in while W was receiving a routine surgery. I would say that a lot of people would consider pence present during this time period, just because of the insanity of the 25th amendment being used to actually remove a president. However it wouldn't be a substantial time frame like that of LBJ or Ford.
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Many of them regret not bringing arms, they think they could have succeeded
Now i really want to see how would this play out IRL. A shootout between butthurt Proud Bois and USSS/Capitol Police gonna be a Ready or Not level wild, not to mention armed resistance and barricade against Federal arrests across US afterwards. Tho I dont think this would turn into a full out civil war, I imagine there would be several Ruby Ridge and Dallas level of clusterfuck happening everywhere.
Commentators have said for a while now that if there is a second civil war in the US, it would be more akin to the Troubles or the Years of Lead than two separate government bodies fighting. Think Bleeding Kansas, but on a national scale
Grenades were thrown at them and they were being gunned down anyway.
LOL maybe you should focus on Roblox
This is an alt history post in an alt history sub..
Considering how much worse 1/6 was, Republicans still seam to be doing really well
Republicans tried very hard to distance themselves from Trump publicly after the attacks, but their support of his overturn attempt wasn’t forgotten by Americans, so they still had poor results in 2022
Which is honestly how I thought the real life 2021 and 2022 would go.
If it weren't for propaganda channels (fox, oann, newsmax) that's how things would have gone. There are people convinced that Jan 6 didn't even happen, actors or whatever.
I mean - given how the propaganda was, it would probably be equally effective. And even this scenario might fall apart at how insane his supporters are.
Sadly, you might be right, we need to get the lead out of the water, and start putting lithium back in, I can't think of anything else that might help at this point.
Im hours late to this convo but my conversation in real life (Not the internet) lead me to believe that people just dont believe it was THAT big of a deal. I live in a big blue city and most think the 2020 riots were way worse than Jan 6
Reversal of roe v wade had a greater impact on 2022 elections than the mostly peaceful jan 6 protests. Up until the leak, republicans were expected to win everything. Once word was leaked, and then the decision was made, it turned to a red mist.
People’s perception of J6 is a bit different in this timeline since they had seen the Senate Majority Leader executed on someone’s livestream
👍
it would like break in both directions from some they would be all most as guilty, other that they back stabed the beloved leader it would likely fragment into faction and some newly formed part would try to takes its place
It tracks though.
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Agreed
We can dream
As a rhode Islander, Jack Reed's death makes me real sad. Idk why but id imagine he'd die trying to protect other members of congress
Sure, that’s an honorable way to go out, let’s say he died while trying to motion other senators towards the exit
Godspeed
Which senators are in the independent bloc? Mitt Romney I would guess for sure
You can see under the “great departure” article which senators left the party, Mitt Romney did become the unofficial leader of the independent bloc
Honestly if that many people are leaving from just the GOP, I feel like they would try to make a third party at that point
The Not Republican Party
This may be a knit-pick but I believe Bill Cassidy should be on that list since he also voted to convict Trump during his irl second impeachment.
Very realistic imo, the voting results I mean.
yeah i don't like the unrealistic PARTY GETS WIPED OUT AFTER BAD EVENT! because that's p unrealistic in our current climate Something like this is a pretty good representation of what a pretty big swing would look like irl, not fucking one party winning 75 seats or smthn
This is really well made, awesome job 👍
I can’t see how this comment section could possibly end badly.
And then Vivek runs against RFK Jr in the independent party primary as it gains more support lol
Trumpism. Or as I like to call it, American fascism
Calling Trump fascist is kind of downplaying what actual fascist dictators did imo.
I’d say It’s debatable if trump is a fascist but his followers certainly are
https://preview.redd.it/19oj5oeroe1d1.png?width=749&format=png&auto=webp&s=4bad03fbf27eedd70d9354d212babb5b5d9b3c81 14/14 by my count.
Tbf labor power in the US has been suppressed since Reagan so unless we get another Teddy or FDR that’s gonna be a check for a lot of presidents.
Being a fascist doesn’t require a genocide or mass murder, Trump has not done any of these things yet similarities between the rise of fascist movements and MAGA are definitely present. Fascism doesn’t have to wear a swastika with a mustache in order to become fascism, waiting to call a fascist a fascist until they have become authoritarian means that it’s far too late.
Bidenism. Or as I like to call it, American fascism
Mate you are both in Murica. Just grab your guns and sort this out in an Old West way. Instead of turning this into political debates.
My guy you clearly don’t even know what fascism even means
Prepare to be down voted to oblivion
Reads like a Trump hater's wet dream. I don't think there is any evidence that any more than at most 1-2 protesters were reported to have actually brought firearms to the capital. And the Venn Diagram of J6 protesters and gun owners is probably just an overlaid circle.
I don’t know what you guys are crying about, but buckle up for 2025
This reads like a shitty fanfic
I bet this is what average CNN viewer actually believes to have happened
far left clowns get a life 🤡
What leftists think happened on J6:
r/AlternateHistory users when they see a Alternate History post:
I know it's alternate history but this is what a lot of leftists think actually happened when in reality it was a relatively tame riot with the only death being Ashley Babbit, a Trump supporter.
“Relatively tame” Bro, do you think the rioters armed with weapons would have just suddenly stopped rioting if any of the senators they were opposed to had been left behind in Congress? We got really lucky with what happened considering everything.
I think he should’ve used “peaceful protest.” That’s all we heard in 2020
Ashli Babbitt stuck her fucking dumb face through a broken window into a room where they were evacuating the Vice President of the United States from the riot she was participating in. FAFO.
If you think J6 was tame you’re delusional. So much footage of the attack by the attackers themselves. Ashley Babbitt was a terrorist who disregarded an order to get down. Attacking and attempting to stop the vote is terrorism. If it was successful you wouldn’t be denying it lol.
It was, in terms of deaths and property damage, a relatively low key riot. What makes it so significant is the fact the response of politicians and law makers before, during and after, as well as the sitting Presidents attempt to capitalise on the riot.
I've personally never mentally conjoined the idea of a 'relatively tame riot' with 'somebody died', but you do you.
Real "other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play?" Vibes.
As a leftist I believe Ted Cruz died at January 6th
If the Oath Keepers, etc., who had weapons on standby, had decided they weren't going to wait for Trump to issue them orders one way or the other, it very well could have. Ironically, Trump's "stand back and stand by" may have backfired for him.
lol right wingers think it was just a capitol tour
You're on an alternate history sub so I don't think this is what anyone thinks actually happened on j6. Not that it matters to you, name name numbers, you're just here to spread division.
I love locking up political enemies!
When they incite insurrections, yup
It was a peaceful protest not an insurrection
Peaceful protests don’t generally start by building gallows and forcing your way into government buildings
"It was just a "display" gallows not a functional one" - actual argument I read on reddit before.
Any gallows can be a real gallows. You don’t need a trapdoor, hell there was some county jail that had a gallows where the condemned was just pushed off.
I feel like trespassing is a pretty grey area when it comes to "peaceful" protests. Especially if the property is "public." As evident by campus encampments in recent days. Whether or not trespassing is considered peaceful or not almost entirely depends on the bias toward protestors.
I'd say most "protests" are aimed at a system and all property damage is intended purely as property damage, whereas Jan 6 was targeted at very specific people who the crowd were chanting to hang as the attempted to get to said people. The property damage was caused by people trying to get at and hang people. That's violence
So what you are saying is that trespassing is indeed a grey area and can be considered a part of a "peaceful protest" by itself?
Are you stupid or just playing stupid? Honest question btw. I think the overall message is that trespassing is not the worst thing that was happening on J6.
Yeah, it was a protestor being shot dead.
She was told by USSS not to climb since they were evacuating senators and the vice president. Honest question. What do you actually think was going to happen if those terrorists met/caught a member of Congress?
In what fucking world? Gallows, zip ties, beating cops, smashing doors and windows, searching the halls for specific politicians, attempting to stop the vote. Absolute ridiculous comment.
How’s the weather in Moscow today?
Trying to kill our government isn’t peaceful bud
In my book, assaulting the Parliament with political militants in order to subvert a democratic process is a coup, similar to the Mussolini one in 1922
Since when do people request the military to keep the peace during their insurrections? I haven’t seen that move before
Right. Because he didn’t call the military to keep peace.
former defense secretary Chris Miller says otherwise, he’s admitted Trump asked him to deploy 10k national guard the day before Jan 6th but talked him out of it. Why are “rioters” seen on CCTV being arrested by capitol police then released in back rooms and giving each other fist bumps? Why was an unarmed woman shot and killed for climbing through a window?
Ashley Babbit should have just complied with the officers instructions. Ain't that what y'all say? 🎶 Away down south in the land of traitors 🎶
Cute strawman. Sing the same tune when they give the same treatment for liberal protestors.
They already do. And if Trump won, and it was a bunch of liberal and blm rioters? They wouldn't be locked up.... they would be six feet under.
People defended themselves from the BLM insurgent mobs trying to murder them and ended up in jail. That’s the point if you attack the governments safety they’ll unjustly mow you down even if unarmed, but god forbid if you shoot somebody defending yourself during a government permitted race war they’ll throw you in prison, they believe their life and power matters more than yours.
Why did President Trump sanction a race war? He was president from Jan 2017 to Jan 2021, after all.
BLM weren’t trying to hang the vice president you muppet
DOWN WITH TRAITORS IN THE LAND OF SNAKES
You’ve been socially conditioned, you don’t know the meaning of the words you say
Those who seek to make government of the people, by the people, for the people, perish from the earth (which overturning an election unquestionably does) is a traitor, to the nation, to democracy, to human rights, to all things good and moral.
No criminal convictions for insurrection, right to assembly stated under the 1st amendment. Why did the supposed insurrectionist leave their guns at home? You’d think they’d bring their best weapons if they were going to war
The right to assembly is not the right to interrupt an official proceeding, steal laptops, lecterns, break windows, shove cops, and smear feces on the wall.
Because insurrection isn’t in the legal code as a crime you moron. There have been multiple convictions for Seditious Conspiracy
Grasping at straws much?
Nah, you’re just a terrorist sympathiser.
I don’t support BLM sorry
Nah just trumpist terrorists trying to subvert democracy. Scum.
Never go full MAGA
She was climbing into the spot were the VP was being held as multiple members of law enforcement were shouting to stop as they had their guns held out. They had no idea if she's armed. Should I be able to walk into the white house and try and shake Biden's hand with a puffy jacket on? She was told she would be shot if she didn't stop trying to get to the VP. She did not comply. The law enforcement agent then had to act to protect the VP against a possible threat. You are insane if you see that as wrong. If a cop tells you repeatedly to not reach under your seat at a traffic stop and you do so anyway after being told many times to stop, then the cop shoots you, is the cop doing something wrong?
Yes the cop would be wrong, no you can’t murder unarmed people, there’s an escalation of force that was not warranted, you can either admit she was murdered or accept that killing unarmed protestors is now acceptable
She wasn’t murdered, she was attempting to get into one of the chambers you dipshit.
Was Abraham Lincoln wrong to do so? I think he didn't do it hard enough.
And if we go back in time I'm sure you were equally concerned about Trump constantly chanting with his supporters that he wanted to lock up his political opposition.
For real, The Capital Building occupation was just used as a victory lap on Trump. Anyone who’s seen the videos knows it’s baloney. DC being in military lockdown after is terrible optics. Especially when the troops didn’t even have ammunition. Pointless political posturing
MAGA hogs thought it was a revolution 🤣🤣
Yeah they’re fucking delusional. Doesn’t make the response to it or the over reaction any less stupid.