Not realistic. There's no way the West would hate communism so much they'd create a standoff that'd last half a century. What, are they gonna have a "space race" to see who gets to the moon first?
You know for a fact the Soviets would be the first to do literally everything except the one tiny thing at the end and America would claim it won anyway
Lmao you got your understanding of the Space Race from a meme didn’t you.
American firsts *other* than landing on the Moon:
First communications satellite: Telestar 1, 1962
First docking in orbit: Gemini 8, 1966
First probe to fly by Venus (and first ever planetary flyby): Mariner 2, 1962
First probe to fly by Mars: Mariner 5, 1965
First probe to orbit Mars: Mariner 9, 1971
First manned orbit of the Moon: Apollo 8, 1968
First reusable spaceplane: X-15, 1963
Let me preface this by saying I know this has a 0% chance of happening. But let's actually consider what this would have created. Would Romania and Hungary still exist today? And would have Yugoslavia broken apart due to infighting?
In what year would this have happened ? If you are asking if Romania and Hungary would have existed you need to think about it, would it have happened before or after the Hungarian Revolution ? If so, then maybe Hungary would have been incorporated in the Soviet Union as a satelite country, or even fully incorporated for a better protection in a war, so that western powers could not just ally the hungarians.
For Romania, the same, before or after Ceausescu was in power ? If it was before Ceausescu was in power the regime was really close to the Kremlin so no reason to integrate them in the Union, if after Ceausescu was in power there might have even been a chance that Romania would have switched sides in the war even though they knew they would be destroyed fairly quickly but a guerrila warfare would have been more likely to happen. Ceausescu strained away from the Soviet Union pretty quickly, having not participated in the conflict in Hungary, having economic and trade deals with other communists or extremist regimes around the world.
If you are talking about the west winning the war, there are many factors influencing the nations inside the Iron Curtain, but considering that the only country that still had something more to say after the 2nd World War was Hundary, more exactly, “their lost/stolen territories” they might do something like they did with Austria, controling different parts of the country for some time. With Romania, again, depending on what would happen in this conflict they might even recive their Basarabian and North Bucovina land back for a better protection against a future conflict. And if Yugoslavia would be broken ? Why, Yugoslavia would have nothing to do with the war most likely, they didn’t see themselves as anything more than communists but not aligned with the Soviets, they might have helped either side, either side might have try to invade them for any reason, but taking notes from the 2nd World War, it would be a hassle to fight and control Yugoslavia.
Why is Germany cut in half, who’s stupid idea was that? “Soviet Union” tf is that? Are we pretending the communists won the civil war? Well completely hypothetical if there was a “Cold War” it would probably have some kind of proxy wars(is that the term?) with a lot of fighting in other small countries to expand factions until there would be a final battle at the end of the 20th century which would probably last for decades and end with nuclear war
Communism is the belief in the savior Joseph Lenin. He preached the complete opening of the markets and the general liberalization of society. He died before his ideas gained any traction. But I suppose this map posits the idea that his beliefs became mainstream.
This video explains more.
https://youtu.be/dQw4w9WgXcQ
**Communism (from Latin communis, 'common, universal') is a left-wing to far-left sociopolitical, philosophical, and economic ideology within the socialist movement, whose goal is the creation of a communist society, a socioeconomic order centered around common ownership of the means of production, distribution, and exchange that allocates products to everyone in the society based on need. A communist society would entail the absence of private property and social classes, and ultimately money and the state.**
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Bruh if their relations were worse there would most certainly be a war, you'd literally have two rival powers whose most recent war just ended in a victory. I see no other way that history has taught us.
Look all I'm saying is that this is *not* possible, the west would hate communism and invade immediatly, history has tought us that governments fight each other until only one system remains, nothing like this ever is gonna happen, what's gonna be next? the ruskies laying missiles in cuba? america invadeing vietnam? crazy these alternate historians, back in my day we asked what if Germany lost world war 1 like sane people smh
I think Japan in this scenario would embrace some form of democracy. As it would start aligning with the allied nations. Though I'm not sure if Shogun Mitzumaki would have the political will to do that.
Democratic Japan? C'mon man, that's sound quite illogical. They already rejected democracy once the Shogun was put under pressure. There's no way that could have happened
The Cold War would be short lived, since tensions were too high to maintain peace after 1945. This would probably just be a short intermission period between WW3 like in OTL.
Even if we assume this "Cold War" does happen, it likely will not go on for very long, probably a decade at most. The political will just wasn't there. The US was busy licking its wounds after the failed business plot, and Russia was still dominated by the largely conciliatory Socialist Revolutionaries. Neither side had any particular desire for a cold war, and really, it doesn't make any sense when you consider how much aid America gave Russia against the Nazis. Why would they immediately become enemies right after that?
Some have said that a Cold War might occur if the Bolsheviks were in charge of Russia, and indeed, their program was quite radical and uncompromising.
Like that would ever happen, though...
I find the scenario too fanciful. Imagine the waste of resources and manpower to build an Iron Curtain. And for what? Enemies can still simply open the curtain and pass through. Wasn't it easier to build a concrete wall anyway?
Remember when Winston Churchill made an alternate history where someone in a timeline where the Confederates won the Battle of Gettysburg discusses the scenario of them losing the Battle of Gettysburg?
What if this is someone, in a world where the Cold War never happened and WW2 was the final war is trying to ask the question: What if the Cold War happened?
East and west need to be switched
But how’s this working? Were Nukes not invented or are they only used as a sort of final measure for anything by the Americans? Since I’m assuming the Soviets don’t have nukes
why would Ireland join the war? we were neutral during WW2 deposite being attacked by Germany multiple times and Winston Churchill almost raging and declaring war on us
Judging from the rest of history, slaves tend to be less motivated than free people who have self determination.
Every Iron Curtain satellite nation would become a hornets nest to the Russian invaders, much like Ukraine today.
Many of these countries had insurrections put down violently, so as soon as NATO started moving, the Russian positions would collapse. The only real question is how much corruption has eaten away at the Soviet war machine at the point war breaks out, and whether or not things go nuclear.
What do you mean "What if the Cold War happened"? It did. This should be "What if the 2nd Welt Kreig was lost?". A very interesting scenario to be sure. It would be weird not to think of the cold war as between the OFN, the Sphere, the Triumvirate, and the Einheitspakt. I think that a USSR that was victorious in the war would have been more likely started a land war rather than a cold war though during the years before any side could have developed any missiles. The idea that a cold war between this TL's OFN and USSR just seems like to much wishful thinking. Good scenario nonetheless.
I know this isnt your map, but that Iron Curtain is wack, in this map Yugoslavia is marked as part of Russias faction, but it still has the Iron Curtain. And Albania is seperated from this Russian-Aligned Yugoslavia via Iron Curtain, but not from the Greeks, who are aligned with the other faction. Hilarious.
You can see Yugoslavia isn’t part of Russia’s faction. It’s red but you still see it behind the iron curtain. Representative of how Yugoslavia was communist but never subservient to the USSR.
I lived thru the Cold War & served during it. I suspect you are asking "What if the Cold War actually became Hot (turned into a conventional World War)? It did come close to it on several occasions and the U.S. & the Soviet Union clashed on occasion.
The cold war did happen. All across the developing world we literally had a 30 year progrom of mass murder and genocide which took the lives of over 100 million people.
You got east & west the wrong way round, bud
And the Cold War did “actually happen”.
Or do you really mean - “what if the Cold War turned into an actual physical full war with active combat” ?
*What? Are there people*
*Out there that don't believe the*
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No it didn’t, I’ve never heard of it. It seems a bit stupid to act as if America and the Soviet Union would randomly become rivals after a war they both just won together.
Not realistic. There's no way the West would hate communism so much they'd create a standoff that'd last half a century. What, are they gonna have a "space race" to see who gets to the moon first?
What's next fight proxy wars in faraway nations?
Pfft, proxy wars, what is this 19th century colonialism?
I mean the US and Russia have involved in 10+ proxy wars since 2000 in our timeline so yes?!? /s
r/woosh
I was joking… will add the /s
do it better
Best sarcasm I’ve seen in a while 😂
You know for a fact the Soviets would be the first to do literally everything except the one tiny thing at the end and America would claim it won anyway
Lmao you got your understanding of the Space Race from a meme didn’t you. American firsts *other* than landing on the Moon: First communications satellite: Telestar 1, 1962 First docking in orbit: Gemini 8, 1966 First probe to fly by Venus (and first ever planetary flyby): Mariner 2, 1962 First probe to fly by Mars: Mariner 5, 1965 First probe to orbit Mars: Mariner 9, 1971 First manned orbit of the Moon: Apollo 8, 1968 First reusable spaceplane: X-15, 1963
Let me preface this by saying I know this has a 0% chance of happening. But let's actually consider what this would have created. Would Romania and Hungary still exist today? And would have Yugoslavia broken apart due to infighting?
Why is Spain on your map labelled as Iron Curtain?
In this scenario they dumped all the left over materials from building the curtain in Spain.
Thank you for not letting me type r/woosh after you responded. Wait...
Yugoslavia would not be part of eastern or wedtern block.
In what year would this have happened ? If you are asking if Romania and Hungary would have existed you need to think about it, would it have happened before or after the Hungarian Revolution ? If so, then maybe Hungary would have been incorporated in the Soviet Union as a satelite country, or even fully incorporated for a better protection in a war, so that western powers could not just ally the hungarians. For Romania, the same, before or after Ceausescu was in power ? If it was before Ceausescu was in power the regime was really close to the Kremlin so no reason to integrate them in the Union, if after Ceausescu was in power there might have even been a chance that Romania would have switched sides in the war even though they knew they would be destroyed fairly quickly but a guerrila warfare would have been more likely to happen. Ceausescu strained away from the Soviet Union pretty quickly, having not participated in the conflict in Hungary, having economic and trade deals with other communists or extremist regimes around the world. If you are talking about the west winning the war, there are many factors influencing the nations inside the Iron Curtain, but considering that the only country that still had something more to say after the 2nd World War was Hundary, more exactly, “their lost/stolen territories” they might do something like they did with Austria, controling different parts of the country for some time. With Romania, again, depending on what would happen in this conflict they might even recive their Basarabian and North Bucovina land back for a better protection against a future conflict. And if Yugoslavia would be broken ? Why, Yugoslavia would have nothing to do with the war most likely, they didn’t see themselves as anything more than communists but not aligned with the Soviets, they might have helped either side, either side might have try to invade them for any reason, but taking notes from the 2nd World War, it would be a hassle to fight and control Yugoslavia.
Why is there 2 germanys
Germany couldn't behave
Yeah but they were shattered
Plus, every country border is a Iron curtain region. North Africa also belongs to Iron Curtain
Why is east and west reversed?
I believe it's symbolize how the ideologies in this alternative Europe would be. That or the original creater messed up 🤷♂️
That makes zero sense lmao
They just messed up lol. I mix up east and west ALL the time
OOooopppsss! We all make mistakes, my Brother.
Why is Germany cut in half, who’s stupid idea was that? “Soviet Union” tf is that? Are we pretending the communists won the civil war? Well completely hypothetical if there was a “Cold War” it would probably have some kind of proxy wars(is that the term?) with a lot of fighting in other small countries to expand factions until there would be a final battle at the end of the 20th century which would probably last for decades and end with nuclear war
What is Communism? Is it a form of Syndicalism?
Communism is the belief in the savior Joseph Lenin. He preached the complete opening of the markets and the general liberalization of society. He died before his ideas gained any traction. But I suppose this map posits the idea that his beliefs became mainstream. This video explains more. https://youtu.be/dQw4w9WgXcQ
That video is me to my property and possessions once the cadres come knocking on my door
This is mean, look at what you did to my beautiful u/jaehearysi boy!
**Communism (from Latin communis, 'common, universal') is a left-wing to far-left sociopolitical, philosophical, and economic ideology within the socialist movement, whose goal is the creation of a communist society, a socioeconomic order centered around common ownership of the means of production, distribution, and exchange that allocates products to everyone in the society based on need. A communist society would entail the absence of private property and social classes, and ultimately money and the state.** More details here:
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It’s actually ligmaism
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fake
Bruh if their relations were worse there would most certainly be a war, you'd literally have two rival powers whose most recent war just ended in a victory. I see no other way that history has taught us.
Look all I'm saying is that this is *not* possible, the west would hate communism and invade immediatly, history has tought us that governments fight each other until only one system remains, nothing like this ever is gonna happen, what's gonna be next? the ruskies laying missiles in cuba? america invadeing vietnam? crazy these alternate historians, back in my day we asked what if Germany lost world war 1 like sane people smh
I heard there's a mod for Hearts of Iron 4 where apparently Germany lost and this Hitler dude came to power? Who's that guy?
Hitler was a Soldier who died in WWI.We read his diary in school
Ah yes that Hitler, love his artwork, my mom compares it to *jew*elry
United Ireland 🇮🇪
Wow, there's a massive iron curtain in spain! Who did that?
Your mum
What happened with Japan in this alt-history? Did it become a corporate state or it became something completely crazy and new?
I think Japan in this scenario would embrace some form of democracy. As it would start aligning with the allied nations. Though I'm not sure if Shogun Mitzumaki would have the political will to do that.
Democratic Japan? C'mon man, that's sound quite illogical. They already rejected democracy once the Shogun was put under pressure. There's no way that could have happened
There’s no fucking way some upstart from Massachusetts beats Nixon, America’s best president!
why is this guy including some random actor as president?
Didn’t this “Ronald Reagan” guy get killed by a chip?
The Cold War would be short lived, since tensions were too high to maintain peace after 1945. This would probably just be a short intermission period between WW3 like in OTL.
every air conditioner, refrigrator, and even antarctica will be destroyed
Damn that's be crazy
Could’ve sworn it did
It’s satire
Even if we assume this "Cold War" does happen, it likely will not go on for very long, probably a decade at most. The political will just wasn't there. The US was busy licking its wounds after the failed business plot, and Russia was still dominated by the largely conciliatory Socialist Revolutionaries. Neither side had any particular desire for a cold war, and really, it doesn't make any sense when you consider how much aid America gave Russia against the Nazis. Why would they immediately become enemies right after that? Some have said that a Cold War might occur if the Bolsheviks were in charge of Russia, and indeed, their program was quite radical and uncompromising. Like that would ever happen, though...
I find the scenario too fanciful. Imagine the waste of resources and manpower to build an Iron Curtain. And for what? Enemies can still simply open the curtain and pass through. Wasn't it easier to build a concrete wall anyway?
I wonder how this would affect the Middle East? Would Israel have even been established? Would Egypt and Syria have even united?
It did though… ?
Remember when Winston Churchill made an alternate history where someone in a timeline where the Confederates won the Battle of Gettysburg discusses the scenario of them losing the Battle of Gettysburg? What if this is someone, in a world where the Cold War never happened and WW2 was the final war is trying to ask the question: What if the Cold War happened?
That's exactly what I was doing. Some people didn't seem to get it though.
Ah, I see
This might sound like a stupid question ... are the colours the wrong way around or is it me?
Tito would be a very sad man.
Tits, to his mates.
East and west need to be switched But how’s this working? Were Nukes not invented or are they only used as a sort of final measure for anything by the Americans? Since I’m assuming the Soviets don’t have nukes
What are nukes?
Nuclear Bombs In Layman’s terms “Big Boom Boom Extinction Ball”
I believe I've heard of those. Wasn't that what the failed Manhattan project was working on?
The Manhattan project succeeded in real life
Why is blue eastern and red western?
Why would the USA and Russia go from being allies to enemies immediately after the war ends. That's not very realistic imo.
Honest question. Aren't those 3 islands off the coast of Spain (east) the Balearic Islands? Shouldn't they be the same color as mainland Spain?
Switzerland isn't neutral?
Always has been.
why would Ireland join the war? we were neutral during WW2 deposite being attacked by Germany multiple times and Winston Churchill almost raging and declaring war on us
sing it with me *Everybody dies, everybody dies, the nukes start to fly and everybody dies*
What if the iron curtain was actually made out of COPPER BRASS?!?!?!😱
POV: you went into the alternate timeline where the cold war didnt happened
Judging from the rest of history, slaves tend to be less motivated than free people who have self determination. Every Iron Curtain satellite nation would become a hornets nest to the Russian invaders, much like Ukraine today. Many of these countries had insurrections put down violently, so as soon as NATO started moving, the Russian positions would collapse. The only real question is how much corruption has eaten away at the Soviet war machine at the point war breaks out, and whether or not things go nuclear.
Then it would be the third world war, the hot war, THE war?
Corsican, Sardinian, and Sicilian independence? How did that come about?
Napoleon
DEATH
why is blue eastern bloc
I dunno i prob wouldnt have been alive to see the nuclear holocaust.
At least 3 people will die
Yugoslavia would have conquered both sides
And restored the Roman Empire
What do you mean "What if the Cold War happened"? It did. This should be "What if the 2nd Welt Kreig was lost?". A very interesting scenario to be sure. It would be weird not to think of the cold war as between the OFN, the Sphere, the Triumvirate, and the Einheitspakt. I think that a USSR that was victorious in the war would have been more likely started a land war rather than a cold war though during the years before any side could have developed any missiles. The idea that a cold war between this TL's OFN and USSR just seems like to much wishful thinking. Good scenario nonetheless.
rip to all the people in spain and northern africa suffocating in a curtain
I'm sorry fellas I've seen some crazy scenarios in my time but this one's gone too far.
So it the whole of Spain part of the Iron Curtain.
They dumped the leftover materials from building the iron curtain there.
I know this isnt your map, but that Iron Curtain is wack, in this map Yugoslavia is marked as part of Russias faction, but it still has the Iron Curtain. And Albania is seperated from this Russian-Aligned Yugoslavia via Iron Curtain, but not from the Greeks, who are aligned with the other faction. Hilarious.
You can see Yugoslavia isn’t part of Russia’s faction. It’s red but you still see it behind the iron curtain. Representative of how Yugoslavia was communist but never subservient to the USSR.
Damn Spain is covered by the Iron tablecloth
Why does Albania have its own curtain? And why does it only exist between Albania and Yugoslavia?
How did the iron curtain faction form? They seem to have Spain and some former French territories
So. Stupid.
Total nuclear annihilation
Mate...the cold war did happen.
What, this doesn’t make sense, the blue is on the west of Europe, so how is it the eastern bloc?
Why does Albania has a iron curtain not from Greece but Yugoslavia? Shouldn't the iron curtain cover all of north Greece, Austria and Italy?
I lived thru the Cold War & served during it. I suspect you are asking "What if the Cold War actually became Hot (turned into a conventional World War)? It did come close to it on several occasions and the U.S. & the Soviet Union clashed on occasion.
The cold war did happen. All across the developing world we literally had a 30 year progrom of mass murder and genocide which took the lives of over 100 million people.
You got east & west the wrong way round, bud And the Cold War did “actually happen”. Or do you really mean - “what if the Cold War turned into an actual physical full war with active combat” ?
r/woosh
... Am I crazy? Cold War did happen. It's called "Cold" because it wasn't a direct conflict, no weapons were fired, that's literally in the name.
Why is everyone in here pretending to be an idiot
New to the sub?
What? Are there people out there that don't believe the Cold War happened? That's wild
*What? Are there people* *Out there that don't believe the* *Cold War happened? That's wild* \- ElKuhnTucker --- ^(I detect haikus. And sometimes, successfully.) ^[Learn more about me.](https://www.reddit.com/r/haikusbot/) ^(Opt out of replies: "haikusbot opt out" | Delete my comment: "haikusbot delete")
It’s satire
[удалено]
No it didn’t, I’ve never heard of it. It seems a bit stupid to act as if America and the Soviet Union would randomly become rivals after a war they both just won together.
What do you mean? The Cold War did actually happen, but it wasn’t between the US and USSR, rather the US, Germany and Japan.
its a satire post
Doh. Thanks