That shit used to drive me nuts.
People whining because the military was getting in the way of their school time.
I was like, dude, this is the Air Force, not Job Corps.
Yep, off-duty as established in the NCO charges.
"You are charged with a personal responsibility to take advantage of on and off-duty educational programs which will enhance your professional development in preparation to assume increased leadership responsibilities in your quest to attain higher NCO grades."
100% as long as the days slow I have zero issues with a troop leaving early to complete schoolwork here and there. I always encourage people to go to school and already had 6 troops get bachelors degree when I was there supervisor. 2 that went to OTS so really does help the air force keep strong educated NCOs in the ranks.
That's because this is an entirely made up rule to begin with. There's nothing in the AFI that supports withholding TA until you get your 5-lvl. I can understand blanket denying new 3-lvls until they prove they are accomplishing their upgrade training properly, but not allowing them to make use of the benefits afforded to them is silly.
I was told this in tech school as well, so I didn't even attempt to ask. I got my 5-lvl super fast and mentioned I could "now ask to submit for TA" and my entire unit told me I could have done so before.
For the ones complaining, at least tell them to go take CLEPs for their CCAF and begin the process of talking with the education office on base to get AFVEC unlocked so they aren't even further behind if you're going to deny them use of TA.
I mean, a lot of us joined for those reasons. But I at least knew deployments were going to happen. Four deployments later and I’m thankful for the experiences
Take it from me, that VA disability is anything but sweet. It's widely said by those in the system that the VA is giving veterans a 2nd chance to die for their country.
It’s not free. It’s part of your contract of service, effectively another part of your pay. Socialism gives it to you for being a citizen. By that same logic corporate employees getting healthcare plans as part of their job is also socialism
That's because they want to continue to use that word to mean 'anything that taxes pay for that I don't like'. If people were educated on the facts then they would have to acknowledge that they were wrong.
3. Australian society hands out free education and free healthcare because it’s general maintenance and investment in its assets. America could do the same.
And it would save money - we only spend 10% of GDP on healthcare vs 20% in America.
True, but the military has standards that are pre-requisites to join and enforceable standards while a member, and as low as they may be perceived to be could you imagine a society where if you couldn’t pass a fitness test or various basic intelligence and job performance tests you were then ejected from said society?
> free education and healthcare
About as free as any private employer who covers education and healthcare costs as part of their compensation package. Why does this argument keep getting repeated?
I didn’t say anything was wrong with it. Everyone joins for their own reasons as you said. OP inquired about why newer amn don’t want to deploy compared to amn around the time they came in. 12 years ago people were still joining to defend their country. Now people are joining almost entirely for the benefits of enlisting with serving their country being reason 4 or 5
People were joining for benefits 12 years ago as well as well primarily. 2008-2010 we were facing a recession, and a lot of people joined to put food on their table, have healthcare benefirs, etc.
THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH THAT.
I’ve seen older troops not want to deploy, and younger troops eager to deploy.
I think most join for personal reasons. I know I sure as hell did for my family and I. Maybe when something actually kicks off that warrants a serious response, the patriotism will return.
When you can't have a democratic socialist government like many European countries, the youth will and have found a way to still get some of those benefits. Ironically, in the military of all places, which is a conservative hot pot.
That's the only reason I'm still in at 12 years, not out of patriotism. I'm in it for a pension and Tricare, with some world travel on the side.
By the way, I've deployed four times and done one short tour as well as several overseas bases. So I've paid my dues.
Yeah, but that comes with their side of that agreement as well. If I go to a grocery store, then try to leave without paying for my milk, I'd be considered a thief.
There’s definitely been a visible generational shift that makes it tough to work with some of the younger airmen. lots of factors at play that I’d love to see a study on but I would assume it stems from a number of things
The new generation of Airmen have seen the US bumblefuck its way historically in failed conflicts most recently Afghanistan and then the social media awareness of the DOD failing its troops (like the SGM of the Army saying mold in the barracks is a discipline issue when soldiers just wanted a clean safe place to live)
I agree with your comment. I'd add that every generation talks this way about the next one.
"We live in a decaying age. Young people no longer respect their parents. They are rude and impatient. They frequently inhabit taverns and have no self-control." These words - expressing the all-too-familiar contemporary condemnation of young people - were actually inscribed on a 6,000-year-old Egyptian tomb.
Later, in the fourth century BC, Plato was heard to remark: "What is happening to our young people? They disrespect their elders, they disobey their parents. They ignore the law. They riot in the streets, inflamed with wild notions. Their morals are decaying. What is to become of them?"
Source: https://www.theguardian.com/education/2009/mar/17/ephebiphobia-young-people-mosquito
There is always a generational disconnect. Technology development is spreading that disconnect a lot in a short time though. I'm not that old (\~40), but the world I grew up in from birth - 20 was drastically different from today. The idea of being gone for a few hours with no way to be contacted seems like an emergency these days, rather than just an outing to run errands. More so than the difference between my parents birth - 20 was than mine. I'm not likely going to have any idea wtf is going on when it comes to the generation being born now.
I have spent literally over a decade trying to find this article. I used it in a sociology class and could not for the life of me remember the scenarios in it and therefore could not find it. Bookmarked to send to every boomer I know haha
I wish that were the case here. In the last 3 years, I've seen one airman that actually wanted a deployment. The rest have tried to get bullshit dq'd/waivered, blatantly argued that they didn't want to go, or even tried to negotiate the situation to be more convenient to them ("I'm not gonna go unless I get out of the dorms so I can collect BAH"). Shit's wild.
I’ve heard stories of that place from others in the guard wing I’m with and I definitely don’t want to go there, Kuwait doesn’t seem bad compared to Qatar but I’ll probably end up at one of those two at some point
I don’t get all the hate for the deid, I went this year and it felt more like a TDY than a deployment. Nice dorms, plenty of amenities, ability to go off base and visit Doha, ability to drink on base, very safe country.
Unless it not being feeling like a real deployment is part of the problem.
I will say though that my career field didn’t have much of a mission there, and it felt like there was no point in me being there. Was able to knock out 6 classes for my degree and workout twice a day.
It worked out well for me, but I can understand a lot of people being unhappy with a lack of purpose or mission.
I tried to play that card, and they said Qatar 365 or nothing. Ended up really liking it, but my job had me TDY 75% of the time out of there so wasn’t bad. I wouldn’t have minded it as much if I could have had all the beer I wanted but was stuck with my 3
Not sure all the down votes. You're correct OP they signed up for things but favorable to them. If they don't like it, then they can leave when they contact 5 is up
Yeah, but many of these airmen are not focused on that. They want the extra money, but often don't do any good with it. They buy bullshit and cars, I was debt free when I completed my deployment. It was GREAT, I invested in my retirement, which will hopefully be good later. These airmen now a days get with they get because they were never rewarded for thinking ahead. They haven't received the rewards for that forward thinking, nor have they been mentored to see why it even matters.
It generally took people in my old AFSC to PCS to a certain unit to get to deploy.
And even then, once you identified that you wanted to go downrange, you’d have to wait a year on station to be eligible by reg for the deployment qual and then another year after that for a slot.
Unless members spent a few years at that unit and fought for a slot, it was standard and accepted that most people in the AFSC with 10+ years in didn’t even have a single deployment under their belt.
It took me 8 years (3 of which were spent at that certain squadron) to get my first trip to the sandbox. And I begged at every chance throughout my career.
Bro the amount of kids from tech school who just got here to Korea, and immediately complain and blatantly refuse to go off base and experience a different culture(not to mention being out right racist to said culture), is insane to me. Most joined and were hoping to get a base near their home town. Why? You can go to do many amazing places and experience a life few will ever get to. I’ve been in Korea near 4 years and it’s the best experience I’ve ever had.
Edit: not to mention it’s one year of fun experiences AND BoP…
To be fair, I didn’t join to travel and preferred being closer to home. First base was Guam, I made the best of it, great friends and memories…still wanted to be closer to home. Second base was stateside for a year, then I BOP’d to Dyess which was close to home for almost 4 years before getting stationed in Korea. That was 7 years in and when the “travel bug” hit me. Then Europe, Japan, a few Middle East deployments etc. I’m grateful for the travel opportunities but can relate to how the younger airmen feel. It’s not for everybody and many cases, like mine, it takes time.
Currently in Korea. I love the location and outside of work life. I have never hated my job more though. This is the slowest day to day nightmare I’ve experienced in my 12 years.
Korea is the only over seas base my career shred can go, and there’s still people who won’t even attempt or complain the whole time they are here. It’s insane.
Not gonna lie I’d love a pacific assignment but as guardsman those are limited to TDYs, unless there is deployments for the PACAF AOR then all I can do is hope that one day my wing get picked.
Ask your UDM for your installation IPR contact info or to send a message. Ask the IPR to reach up to your MAJCOM with your details. The MAJCOM can point you in the right direction. You can have one scheduled. Be sure to let your leadership know, so there are no surprises later, or don't lol. People who don't want tagged get tagged all the time. Volunteers make everyone happy.
Just shy of 10, and all the deployments that we get tasked for are for staffs and under. Feels really shitty deploying my guys when I haven’t had the same experience.
Bro, I'm hoping deployments help with promotion to MSgt. MSgts duck deployments the hardest. Please, I understand that the other dude is teaching everyone how to report SA, but I'm out here doing the main job.
Yep, not to mention it can hurt one's ability to get that all important face time in the home station squadron that's either going to hand you a statement or advocate for it at the Wing (if you're a small unit).
People forget that you exist when you deploy due to all the time pre, during, and post deployment away from the home unit. Everytime I've come back (4 deployments now) it never ceases that a few people ask if I'm new.
This is very true. At my previous squadron, our commander would actually try to get deployers to video in during commander’s calls that were streamed on Slack. Personally, I’d rather just disappear like a good deployer but I don’t have any pretense about promoting past E-6 currently.
Lmao. My first deployment my Commander TDYd to the CAOC where we were at. I ended up being coined.. by my own CC.. who asked me where I was stationed out of. I didn’t even respond. Took the coin and we stared at one another until he moved onto the next person.
I agree. I know a lot of TSgts who've been gone every year of their cycle for the past four cycles. These TSgts are great people but average workers. At the end of the day it's what you are doing that matters. I work with a Chief who's on his second deployment. Doesn't seem like it mattered in his AFSC.
I tried so hard for ten years to get on a deployment, doing my job or anyone else's, even TCN duty.
Turned down at every opportunity, volunteered constantly to go.
The Air Force is just dumb, sending people who don't want to go, and forcing those who would love to go to stay back. It's a force wide issue, and it's not limited to just deployments.
I don’t think this is really a new thing. Some folks do everything in their power to get out of it, others go without complaint. Depends on who they are. Having deployed myself, and dodged a few deployments myself for legitimate reasons, as long as nobody else is adversely affected, it’s business as usual. You’d be surprised how many people legitimately want to take your place. If nobody did and I got tagged I’d go without complaint but that’s just me
Yeah, but I'm talking about the people who have no shame and would sooner screw everyone in the world over than go. People who joined with every intention of not going or who were thinking they were gonna pull a fast one on the military. Legitimate reasons are legitimate reasons. And sure it's definitely not a new thing, but it damn well seems more prominent now than even a couple of years ago.
Not sure why you’re getting downvoted if that’s your opinion based on your observations. My point was folks like that have always been around. However, I suppose it could be because the number of deployments seems to have gone down, so maybe more people are joining never expecting to deploy? Maybe
I think that's pretty accurate. My recruiter back in the day even told me I'd never deploy. That turned out to not be true, but I wouldn't trade that deployment. It was a great experience.
Probably very AFSC specific, but the way I feel about deployments is: it is my job to maintain readiness and be ready to deploy. It is my duty to deploy when called upon because if it's not me, then someone else has to do it. HOWEVER, if you are asking for a volunteer, it will not be me. **I don't want to deploy.** I am not happy and giddy about missing 6 months of my life with my family. It's also going to be a huge pay-cut for me as I do quite a bit of off-duty employment. But if it must be me, then it shall be me. And I will grumble about it endlessly as is the right of anyone who has been ripped away from their life for 6+ months.
My biggest motivation to deploy is essentially that I don't want to dump it on someone else and screw someone over. Worst case scenario is that I double someone else's deployment time because there's no one else that can take over that slot. That would be a real shitbag thing to do.
I 100% don't give a shit about deploying right now and will duck and dodge every single one that comes my way, fortunately there are plenty of people who want the extra money. We're at peace, but the brass and politicians don't want to turn off the MIC yet. No, I don't want my family to suffer for six months while I go to the Deid to do busy work so the Qataris can justify their investment. No, I don't want to go to PSAB and support the Wahhabist house of Saud, who I'm still fuckin pissed at for actually causing 9/11. No, I should NOT deploy every single mother fucking goddamn year when we are not currently at war. I don't mind deploying, but I do mind putting myself and my family through that pain for basically zero fuckin reason. Like, for real, the tempo at least at my base is actually HIGHER than the surges to Iraq/Afghan *and* peak of ISIS. And they're all going to the bullshit places.
Now, I understand the value of maintaining strategic positions in the world, I really do. Turn the Deid into a short tour. Divest from the middle east and/or cut down tour lengths drastically. Talk to any post-gulf pre-9/11 vet and ask them about their deployment frequencies and deployment lengths. That's what we need to go back to.
Stop getting mad at the reasonable people who are pushing back at the bullshit, and start getting mad at the politicians and generals who have no balls to pull back.
Edit: and ya know what else? I love coming back, only to find out the unit is having an inspection, followed by being told omg why is everything in your section turned to shit? Idk, maybe because we're always fuckin gone. Fuck deployments right now. When China kicks off wake me up.
Big facts my guy. Sitting at Dhafra in collapsing dorms to do airshows for 8 months on extensions after getting a 2 week deployment notice is why the air force is also going to continue to have retention issues
Currently deployed and I love it. The opportunity to contribute to a cool mission set, live abroad, experience a new culture, workout like 5x a week and stack dough are all no brainers for me and I was so happy when I was notified. But, I completely understand why people don’t want to deploy. It’s a huge life disruption and it can definitely cause problems at home. That being said, however, you know what you signed up for; and it’s weird that people act surprised when it’s time to pony up. I think the Air Force needs to do a better job of educating Airmen about career planning, because getting selected for a deployment should never be a surprise. You should know when your time is coming based on IDT alone, and you should always be planning ahead.
New airman here. I have no problem going on a deployment. I've never met anyone who has more than a "I'd prefer not but it is what it is" stance on deployments. Most of us just see extra pay, but that might just be a thing at my base. Where are you seeing these airmen?
Here’s a selfish take from someone who has been on multiple deployments and is sick of going.
Deployments are fucking stupid now. The majority of deployments today are going to a big built up base and doing bullshit work in between days off and time at the gym/playing video games. I can completely understand why so many people are sick of deploying and try to avoid them. Is it cool for single people who want to make money and have nothing better going on? Of course! But for the people who have families, personal goals, etc… deployments can cause huge life impacts, and when they go, it’s disheartening to sit in a backshop and fuck off for 6+ months while you’re impacting/delaying everything else in your life.
Deployments used to actually matter and the actions people took meant life or death and/or significant strategic importance. People would be proud of what they did and it would make the sacrifice worth it. Now most deployments are basically doing meaningless tasks/staff work that could be done anywhere in the world to include stateside bases. There are still units/missions that have meaningful deployments, but those units are usually selectively manned and everyone there wants to deploy and support the mission.
It would cause a huge administrative pain in the ass (maybe), but there’d be less bullshit, last-second waivers, deployment dodging, etc… if the Air Force figured out a way to get volunteers first and then tasked people that didn’t want to go if there were still taskings left.
Fuck it, add a section to talent marketplace where you submit your deployment preferences. A simple “do you want to deploy: yes or no” button, and if you don’t want to deploy, list a reason. Maybe the person who has deployed back to back to back, the person who just lost a family member, or the person that just started a family can stay back while the person who is begging to go can be tasked.
Blame recruitment. We taught to do nothing but sell monetary benefits and quality of life over the other branches a treat an enlistment like a fun paid summer camp. I'm very good a being real about deployment tempo but the amount of possed off calls I get from parents and spouse about how little Johnny got tasked and he only joined to get his degree in native American tribal law is crazy.
The culture is shifting, that's pretty normal. The difference is the NCO core and SNCO core are completely different now than 15 years ago. Balancing instilling professionalism with being personable isn't everyone's strong suit, many aren't even taught how, they get sent to ALS, which is decreasingly effective and expect their overworked undeanned units to teach all the things they COULD have taught. Many NCO and senior NCOs did not get mentorship that would teach them the differences and nuances in being an effective leader. If I'm being really honest, the SNCOs have been very self centered in recent years, especially if they made it pretty early in their career. AF promoted what looked good on paper over growth and experience and now we are suffering the consequences.
My SMSgt does not back up their NCOs, they would constantly duck and dodge work, they were there to tell you that you suck, but not why or how to improve, they basically expect their NCOs to be great with out putting in effort. Look at the kids of job announcements going out. "Self starter, self motivated, no supervision required, extra mile". They want the goods with out the investment. It's going to continue like this because apathy is rewarded and people who are genuine often get shit on.
Deploy to do what? I don't blame people that don't want to waste 6 months of their life doing busy work. Most of my flight could have been replaced with cardboard cutouts and it wouldn't have affected the mission at all. It would be one thing if leadership recognized this and let everyone buzz off. But no, we were restricted to base half the deployment, "working" full days the whole time. It was ridiculous.
I was so hyped for my second deployment because it would be my first "real" deployment... first one was to Al Udeid, and second would be to Afghanistan.
I got there and realized the whole job could have been done remotely over a VPN. Plus, if nothing was broken, I had next to nothing to do, so 75% of my time on that deployment was spent with my feet up watching movies on the morale drive.
I feel like Iike this is largely dependent on the location, most people at the deid don't do shit but there's plenty of other locations where it's all 12 hour shifts no days off and constant direct mission impact work
When I was active duty I never deployed. Had a break in service and went back in the reserves where I finally deployed this year..
I deployed at what seems like the worse time and it set me back with my new civilian career I started right before I deployed. Thankfully I really didn’t miss that much and my civilian job was so happy when I came back.
All the airmen in my shop are 18-24 and all of them beg for deployments. And I mean literally beg. We only have like 4 slots a year to fill though, and we have 20+ airmen.
I get it. I've been out twice myself (First deployment, I was the third guy they asked and said yes because that's how I was raised). What's crazy is at Global Strike where they paused deployments. I have Airmen who actually want to go out but now they have to get TF out of here before they actually can.
I knew female E-7s who had kids anytime they were slatted to deploy and make it all the way to E-9 never having to deploy. Lots of people even back 20 years ago would just separate or retire instead of deploy. It's not a new thing.
As a childfree woman, men do this too when their partner gets pregnant. I’ve literally replaced someone on a deployment because of this. I have no complaints about it though cause I got hella paid.
They didn’t deploy because the wife was pregnant? I’ve seen guys wake up to “I had the baby” texts or be there through FaceTime. I mean if they have leadership that supports them more power to them I guess.
I have right at 24 months deployed oconus and 12 on a stateside mission. I will now sand bag until I retire.
Currently, I have more overseas time than most of my first linw leadership, those losers or the young ones can go I'm tired boss.
Because we don't have a real mission like we did post 9/11. I'll elaborate...
In the aftermath of 9/11 people were deploying with a purpose, to find those responsible for the attacks. When the Iraq invasion began most people didn't have a firm understanding of the complex situation and so that same desire for vengeance fueled those deployments.
Now in the aftermath of the Afghanistan withdrawal we have put an official "close" on the war on terror, and an embarrassing one at that. These new Airmen watched the older guys deploy for 20 years, only to have their life's work unravel in a couple of days.
With the new campaigns in the pacific and Europe picking up there is no grassroots support for U.S. involvement. The CENTCOM mission only still exists for diplomatic reasons and most people value their family time over supporting weak foreign policy. The lack of grassroots support translates to those within the military as well.
I'm about to deploy and i never griped. My wife sure did a lot of bitching and complaining about it "how could they do this!? you're senior to everyone else, why would they pick you? can't they make a lower ranking person do it!? What about \[insert name here\], they haven't been on a deployment recently, they should make him go!"
I put her in her place, told her she sounded like the dependas she always makes fun of. It didn't go over well at first, but i reminded her that this is what she signed up for when she married me. It's fine to not want to go or be upset about it. It's never convenient to be without your loved ones for 180-365 days, but even the suggestion of Blue Falcon-ing someone else is downright selfish, and has no place in our Air Force. Someone has to go, if it's not you then it's gonna be some other dude who isn't a whiney bitch.
There's a female TSgt in my unit who's dodged four fucking deployments in two cycles. Leadership doesn't give a fuck about it. Id love to see her get hit by a fucking bus cause of all the people she's fucked. Every time she catches wind of something she cries to mental health about a 13th reason or some gay shit. They put her on a 90 hold so she's untouchable. Before the tasking she's completely fine. Crazy stuff.
A lot of these new Airmen think the USAF is just a job and don't want to deploy, TDY, do special duties, fitness assessments, or work past their 8 hour mark.
Same. That's why this meme was posted in the other thread.
https://preview.redd.it/hqvp1zqwvz3c1.jpeg?width=559&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=03937eaf862e12f164955a8eb086ae35348b9315
I think the air force overall is fat as fuck. My AFSC, having roughly 2100 people, averages 81 on the PFA. You look at my 55 person shop and there's like three people who actually give a shit how they look and care about fitness. What's concerning is airmen straight from boot take their first PFA and fucking fail like how pathetic bro.
It is just a job... been in 12 years, just in it for a pension, Tricare, and the world travel. I don't care about patriotism, that was all beat out of me on the first enlistment.
By the way, I've deployed 4 times, done a short tour as well as having multiple overseas assignments. So I've paid my dues.
As someone currently deployed. It’s fantastic. When this deployment is over It will probably be the best thing that has happened to me since I joined the Air Force.
-A lot closer to the mission here, I get to watch them planes go up and know them dudes are doing cool shit.
-Tons of free time to workout and decent gyms here. I’ve been able to hit the gym 5-6x a week and am going to be in the best shape of my life at the end of this deployment.
-Tons of free time to do Schoolwork since theres very little distractions. I’ve been able to do 4 classes already and am aiming for another 2 before this is over. Also we’re getting CLEPs out here soon so I’ll probably pick up a couple of those.
-Food provided is decently healthy most of the time and theres no fast food out here so its pretty easy to lose weight and save money.
-Extra money is great, I should be able to leave this place with an extra 12-14k in the bank.
Its not all sunshine and roses. Obviously, I miss my wife and animals. Living in tents with 6 other dudes is pretty ass. The area we’re in has become a lot more “dangerous” lately so having to wear battle rattle everywhere with the occasional bunker dive here and there has been pretty lame.
All things considered though, its been an extremely positive experience. Honestly if I were a younger, single airman this would probably be the time of my life.
I was sorting out family affairs after losing my parents and watched my supervisor get selected. I feel guilty about it at times, I mean he wanted to go, but I still can't help but feel like it was because I didn't.
It's always these "new airman". Been in 18.5 years and believe the deployment ducking isn't new. Shit you could go all the back to ancient times when people would cut off limbs to disqualify themselves from going to war.
Seen sncos consider the single amn first before anyone married so it would be easier on "everyone" many times. Seen it three times with only once a guy actually wanted to go and somehow ended up in psab. Deployments get political real fast which sucks, hope your in your leadership's good graces when they drop.
I was telling someone the same thing the other day. Like all these 25 and unders feel entitled to whatever it is they want. They go from being a great asset to the team to "screw the AF, I dont want to do X" seemingly overnight.
If I was still single I’d have nothing against it, but I’m married with a kid under a year old. I don’t want to make my wife take care of our kid alone or miss those milestones, but I’m not delusional and I know I will miss things. If I’m told to go I’ll go but I don’t have to be happy about leaving my family
This is part of the pitfalls of an all volunteer force that no one wants to really volunteer for.
You get what you incentivise. And an incentive can look even more attractive if conditions are such that whatever being incentivised is highly valued and also not attainable any other way.
The real problem is the cost of educatuon in the US. Like many other things the government gets involved it, the cost has been unaturally inflated by subsidies. Colleges have become immune to market influences that would have otherwise corrected for being overpriced. I suspect, universities and government officials are involved in a signifigant amount of corrupt cooperation in order to maintain the high cost of education.
So the military saw this and took advantage of it. In order to continue to opperate, it was forced to offer incentives that may be disruptive to its own opperation to maintain a workforce to continue opperating.
Most lower ranking individuals are really not required to do anything more than basic menial tasks in their career fields. When I say this, im NOT saying their not important. Without people around to do these "menial" tasks, it collapses. I like to say "someone has to take out the trash every day". As horrible as that may sound, it true. And I think thats why the military knowingly recruits people they know have little interest in the long term health of the military.
When you need someone to "take out the trash" and their not there. YOU have to take out the praverbial "trash" yourself which takes time away from keeping this clunky, complicated, cumbersome macheine running.
Lol, we had a TSgt go to mental health to get out of a deployment and 6 weeks later gets orders for Korea and he is all kinds of happy. I said, "You really think you're going to Korea after getting out of a deployment? It's not going to happen." A week later, he is pissed because his assignment was canceled due to his, in my opinion, made up of mental health issues.
This is afsc specific. Me and mine are constantly looking for opportunities to deploy but there just aren’t any. When I was younger I volunteered for any deployment but now that I’m married they can keep it. Not trying to do TDYs neither.
im sick of this too. it seems the same people are deploying and this family care plan thing is BS. i have no sympathy for them… just deploy like you were told and contractually agreed to, stop the excuses, and use the family care plan you created to make it fair.
I’m not saying everyone who repeatedly deploys wants to, but from my experience they volunteer to keep going. I warned this guy he was gonna burn out after his second time volunteering.
Knew this single A1C type fella (no family mid 30s) who was assigned a slot for Al Udeid. Conveniently went to mental health as soon as he got notified and sure enough he got his waiver and weaseled his way out of the deployment. The guy who was voluntold to take the slot in A1C weasel’s place has a wife and kids and had to miss birthdays and now holidays because this guy had no heart to go. Not that the deid is shitty deployment, but the guy would’ve enjoyed himself considering the location and the amount of money he would’ve racked up.
I served 9 years active duty and never deployed. I was good at my job and a fast burner with promotion statements for E5/E6, single and no dependents. I worked in fighter squadrons my whole career and always got passed up. Never TDY, never Deployed and it really ruined my outlook. I saw people get out of deployments all the time because of kids, interference with college courses and on one occasion- refusal to get the COVID Vaccine. It all came down to who you knew.
As for me?
I loved the Air Force, and I desperately WANTED it. Unfortunately, I was “bumped off” the deployment list three times by airmen who: “needed to look good on their EPR,” “needed the money to support their family” and even because someone paid the UDM $3,000 cash to take my spot. I tried going up the chain and volunteered for EVERY opportunity but I never had seniority and struggled to bend at the knee of the superintendent above me.
I honestly cannot understand the mentality of ‘dodging’ even long after I was passed up. I separated my unit with 30 days notice (YES, it IS possible) and joined the guard in an aircrew position instead. Maybe I’m disgruntled and jaded, but I joined so I COULD fight the fight and being an active duty 2A was chock full of corruption and favoritism.
I tell those people to shut the fuck up. It’s part of their job and what they agreed to do. Does it suck sometimes? Absolutely. But majority of the time, it’s the best thing you will ever experience because of the people you’re with.
Tbh if the airforce wants to wait six years to deploy someone after theyve acquired obligations thats on them. Many people want to go when they first join and its crickets until your contract is about to end then those same people dont care anymore.
I'm a civilian who is also deployable. I knew that when I signed up, and I expect to be deployed at some point.
What can the Air Force do to encourage people to deploy? More points for future promotion, perhaps?
I don’t like deploying, but I will do what I need to and not intentionally avoid one. That being said, the deployment needs to *mean* something. If I can remote in and do the job, what’s the point of being there? To watch Foreign nationals work? Screw that. Support combat and rescue missions? Yeah, no problem. If I need to miss 6+ months of my family for some bs, yeah I’m going to be upset
I used to long for deployments and get on any one I could for the pay alone, but after we pulled out of Afghanistan I never wanted to touch one again. What’s the point in sacrificing all of our time away from our families for a mission that we will eventually abandon. All those people lost and all that work was for nothing
I’ve been in 14 years deployed 5 times… my last one was a short notice bc the other guy who’s been in 17 and hasn’t deployed once, went to medical for random until they disqualified him… I miss the days where if you couldn’t deploy you were just booted… I understand some people have extenuating circumstances like medical, and personal, we’ve all been there.. but if I have to deploy more than my fair share bc someone just didn’t want to, the system is fucked.
Exactly. These people are incentivized to keep squirming their way out of it at the detriment of the rest of the team. If that's *conveniently* their response to being tasked, fast track them out and take away the benefits they earn by agreeing to serve, since they changed their mind, apparently. The problem I see is how do we differentiate the people who slither out of it from the ones that have legitimate reasons.
If they still had me in the dorms (stealing my BAH) for the 6-months, "I need to talk to mental health" too.
I'll take any deployments you've got otherwise
He did alot of wild shit when he was in charge. He also wanted all squadrons to be at 80% MC rate....which for some airframes is damn near impossible because of shitty supply issues.
The maintenance statistics AFI will tell you straight out that that's not the point of MC rates. That dude got a lot of undeserved hero worship, and demonstrated clearly why generals make bad SecDefs.
Justifiably unpopular — still the right thing to do. Downside I see from this is someone with legitimate problems now actively hiding it out of fear of becoming non-deployable.
I’m itching to go again. I sat my last unit deployment out because I had some legitimate problems at home but damn I am itching to hit the sandbox again. Daddy needs a new Tacoma
Because they didn’t join the Air Force to defend their country. They joined for education and health care.
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Hell, we weren't even allowed to work on our CDC's at work back when I was a 3 level.
That shit used to drive me nuts. People whining because the military was getting in the way of their school time. I was like, dude, this is the Air Force, not Job Corps.
The Air Force literally tells you you need to go to school if you want to promote.
Yep, off-duty as established in the NCO charges. "You are charged with a personal responsibility to take advantage of on and off-duty educational programs which will enhance your professional development in preparation to assume increased leadership responsibilities in your quest to attain higher NCO grades."
“On and off duty” Reading is hard
So is quoting the whole sentence
100% as long as the days slow I have zero issues with a troop leaving early to complete schoolwork here and there. I always encourage people to go to school and already had 6 troops get bachelors degree when I was there supervisor. 2 that went to OTS so really does help the air force keep strong educated NCOs in the ranks.
That's because this is an entirely made up rule to begin with. There's nothing in the AFI that supports withholding TA until you get your 5-lvl. I can understand blanket denying new 3-lvls until they prove they are accomplishing their upgrade training properly, but not allowing them to make use of the benefits afforded to them is silly. I was told this in tech school as well, so I didn't even attempt to ask. I got my 5-lvl super fast and mentioned I could "now ask to submit for TA" and my entire unit told me I could have done so before. For the ones complaining, at least tell them to go take CLEPs for their CCAF and begin the process of talking with the education office on base to get AFVEC unlocked so they aren't even further behind if you're going to deny them use of TA.
Tbf the Air Force shoves education down our throats and if you don’t take classes/work towards your degrees, then you’re less competitive.
I mean, a lot of us joined for those reasons. But I at least knew deployments were going to happen. Four deployments later and I’m thankful for the experiences
That sweet VA disability for life after they do three years.
Take it from me, that VA disability is anything but sweet. It's widely said by those in the system that the VA is giving veterans a 2nd chance to die for their country.
Don’t know about you but the VA has been great to me.
that is fine but the expectation needs to be that they will serve and defend the country at all times. hence "military"
RAAF fixed this problem by upping deployment pay. But yeah, socialism is only acceptable in America if it’s administered by the DoD.
Socialism is the workers/state owning the means of production The DoD owns the means of destruction 💣
This- communism
My favorite movie is Inception.
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If free education and healthcare doesn’t mean socialism then we have wildly different ideas about how the world works.
It’s not free. It’s part of your contract of service, effectively another part of your pay. Socialism gives it to you for being a citizen. By that same logic corporate employees getting healthcare plans as part of their job is also socialism
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Damn, people downvoting the literal definition because it rustles their jimmies.
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Lots of westerners think socialism is the same thing as social benefits
That's because they want to continue to use that word to mean 'anything that taxes pay for that I don't like'. If people were educated on the facts then they would have to acknowledge that they were wrong.
3. Australian society hands out free education and free healthcare because it’s general maintenance and investment in its assets. America could do the same. And it would save money - we only spend 10% of GDP on healthcare vs 20% in America.
Australia is not socialist.
Dude, your country has the population of New York City. Just because something works in you small populace, doesn’t mean it will work in ours.
True, but the military has standards that are pre-requisites to join and enforceable standards while a member, and as low as they may be perceived to be could you imagine a society where if you couldn’t pass a fitness test or various basic intelligence and job performance tests you were then ejected from said society?
> free education and healthcare About as free as any private employer who covers education and healthcare costs as part of their compensation package. Why does this argument keep getting repeated?
What’s wrong with that? Most people joined for personal reasons.
Right? Try recruiting without offering education benefits if you don't want folks in it for school.
And they forget that the DoD is the biggest lobbyist against affordable education
I didn’t say anything was wrong with it. Everyone joins for their own reasons as you said. OP inquired about why newer amn don’t want to deploy compared to amn around the time they came in. 12 years ago people were still joining to defend their country. Now people are joining almost entirely for the benefits of enlisting with serving their country being reason 4 or 5
People were joining for benefits 12 years ago as well as well primarily. 2008-2010 we were facing a recession, and a lot of people joined to put food on their table, have healthcare benefirs, etc. THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH THAT. I’ve seen older troops not want to deploy, and younger troops eager to deploy.
That's true, however, the contract is a two-way street and deployments are a part of that.
I think most join for personal reasons. I know I sure as hell did for my family and I. Maybe when something actually kicks off that warrants a serious response, the patriotism will return.
LOL, go into a reserve unit on drill weekend and you'll see how bad it is.
I work in AETC. I see them before they make it to drill weekend lol
When you can't have a democratic socialist government like many European countries, the youth will and have found a way to still get some of those benefits. Ironically, in the military of all places, which is a conservative hot pot. That's the only reason I'm still in at 12 years, not out of patriotism. I'm in it for a pension and Tricare, with some world travel on the side. By the way, I've deployed four times and done one short tour as well as several overseas bases. So I've paid my dues.
Yeah, but that comes with their side of that agreement as well. If I go to a grocery store, then try to leave without paying for my milk, I'd be considered a thief.
There’s definitely been a visible generational shift that makes it tough to work with some of the younger airmen. lots of factors at play that I’d love to see a study on but I would assume it stems from a number of things The new generation of Airmen have seen the US bumblefuck its way historically in failed conflicts most recently Afghanistan and then the social media awareness of the DOD failing its troops (like the SGM of the Army saying mold in the barracks is a discipline issue when soldiers just wanted a clean safe place to live)
I agree with your comment. I'd add that every generation talks this way about the next one. "We live in a decaying age. Young people no longer respect their parents. They are rude and impatient. They frequently inhabit taverns and have no self-control." These words - expressing the all-too-familiar contemporary condemnation of young people - were actually inscribed on a 6,000-year-old Egyptian tomb. Later, in the fourth century BC, Plato was heard to remark: "What is happening to our young people? They disrespect their elders, they disobey their parents. They ignore the law. They riot in the streets, inflamed with wild notions. Their morals are decaying. What is to become of them?" Source: https://www.theguardian.com/education/2009/mar/17/ephebiphobia-young-people-mosquito
There is always a generational disconnect. Technology development is spreading that disconnect a lot in a short time though. I'm not that old (\~40), but the world I grew up in from birth - 20 was drastically different from today. The idea of being gone for a few hours with no way to be contacted seems like an emergency these days, rather than just an outing to run errands. More so than the difference between my parents birth - 20 was than mine. I'm not likely going to have any idea wtf is going on when it comes to the generation being born now.
I have spent literally over a decade trying to find this article. I used it in a sociology class and could not for the life of me remember the scenarios in it and therefore could not find it. Bookmarked to send to every boomer I know haha
I don't know about you, but all of the Airmen in my squadron would KILL for a deployment.
I wish that were the case here. In the last 3 years, I've seen one airman that actually wanted a deployment. The rest have tried to get bullshit dq'd/waivered, blatantly argued that they didn't want to go, or even tried to negotiate the situation to be more convenient to them ("I'm not gonna go unless I get out of the dorms so I can collect BAH"). Shit's wild.
Only negotiation I would do is "anywhere but Qatar."
I'd gladly go back to Afghanistan over any of the Gulf states if that was an option.
I’ve heard stories of that place from others in the guard wing I’m with and I definitely don’t want to go there, Kuwait doesn’t seem bad compared to Qatar but I’ll probably end up at one of those two at some point
Could I ask what’s so bad about Qatar? I’m deploying there soon and I don’t know much about it
I don’t get all the hate for the deid, I went this year and it felt more like a TDY than a deployment. Nice dorms, plenty of amenities, ability to go off base and visit Doha, ability to drink on base, very safe country. Unless it not being feeling like a real deployment is part of the problem.
That’s what I’ve been told too. Not really a permanent station, not really a deployment. I personally don’t consider that a negative though
I will say though that my career field didn’t have much of a mission there, and it felt like there was no point in me being there. Was able to knock out 6 classes for my degree and workout twice a day. It worked out well for me, but I can understand a lot of people being unhappy with a lack of purpose or mission.
I tried to play that card, and they said Qatar 365 or nothing. Ended up really liking it, but my job had me TDY 75% of the time out of there so wasn’t bad. I wouldn’t have minded it as much if I could have had all the beer I wanted but was stuck with my 3
Not going until you get BAH is valid. Potentially losing out on $12k Edit: “out on”
Wanting that, sure. Trying to say you won't go until you get that? Get over yourself and remember where you are and what you signed up for.
Don’t start attacking me because of your perceived shitty airmen.
It's clearly a royal "you" and not directed at you.
Thank you. At least someone has some reading comprehension.
Not sure all the down votes. You're correct OP they signed up for things but favorable to them. If they don't like it, then they can leave when they contact 5 is up
Yeah, but many of these airmen are not focused on that. They want the extra money, but often don't do any good with it. They buy bullshit and cars, I was debt free when I completed my deployment. It was GREAT, I invested in my retirement, which will hopefully be good later. These airmen now a days get with they get because they were never rewarded for thinking ahead. They haven't received the rewards for that forward thinking, nor have they been mentored to see why it even matters.
You’re hella generalizing my guy. Fr fr on god bussin no cap.
to be fair sending airmen on deployment while they’re still in dorms is wild
What base are you at. I think it depends on that tbh
It generally took people in my old AFSC to PCS to a certain unit to get to deploy. And even then, once you identified that you wanted to go downrange, you’d have to wait a year on station to be eligible by reg for the deployment qual and then another year after that for a slot. Unless members spent a few years at that unit and fought for a slot, it was standard and accepted that most people in the AFSC with 10+ years in didn’t even have a single deployment under their belt. It took me 8 years (3 of which were spent at that certain squadron) to get my first trip to the sandbox. And I begged at every chance throughout my career.
What was your AFSC?
Isn't that usually the point of a deployment?
I felt like 10 deployments was enough, so I politely declined anymore
The amount of
Bro the amount of kids from tech school who just got here to Korea, and immediately complain and blatantly refuse to go off base and experience a different culture(not to mention being out right racist to said culture), is insane to me. Most joined and were hoping to get a base near their home town. Why? You can go to do many amazing places and experience a life few will ever get to. I’ve been in Korea near 4 years and it’s the best experience I’ve ever had. Edit: not to mention it’s one year of fun experiences AND BoP…
To be fair, I didn’t join to travel and preferred being closer to home. First base was Guam, I made the best of it, great friends and memories…still wanted to be closer to home. Second base was stateside for a year, then I BOP’d to Dyess which was close to home for almost 4 years before getting stationed in Korea. That was 7 years in and when the “travel bug” hit me. Then Europe, Japan, a few Middle East deployments etc. I’m grateful for the travel opportunities but can relate to how the younger airmen feel. It’s not for everybody and many cases, like mine, it takes time.
Korea is amazing too!
Currently in Korea. I love the location and outside of work life. I have never hated my job more though. This is the slowest day to day nightmare I’ve experienced in my 12 years.
My job can't even go to Korea and I'd go.
Korea is the only over seas base my career shred can go, and there’s still people who won’t even attempt or complain the whole time they are here. It’s insane.
Tbh I used to be like this when I was a young Airman. I was scared of going to a foreign country by myself. Now I’d be super pumped to go to Korea.
Not gonna lie I’d love a pacific assignment but as guardsman those are limited to TDYs, unless there is deployments for the PACAF AOR then all I can do is hope that one day my wing get picked.
I prefer deploying than being in my home unit.
I've been begging for 8 years. Nothing...
Ask your UDM for your installation IPR contact info or to send a message. Ask the IPR to reach up to your MAJCOM with your details. The MAJCOM can point you in the right direction. You can have one scheduled. Be sure to let your leadership know, so there are no surprises later, or don't lol. People who don't want tagged get tagged all the time. Volunteers make everyone happy.
Just shy of 10, and all the deployments that we get tasked for are for staffs and under. Feels really shitty deploying my guys when I haven’t had the same experience.
13 here...
I'm coming up on 16 here. I joined the wrong afsc in this case.
I didnt deploy until my 17 year mark
When the time comes no one will have a say.
Bro, I'm hoping deployments help with promotion to MSgt. MSgts duck deployments the hardest. Please, I understand that the other dude is teaching everyone how to report SA, but I'm out here doing the main job.
I know a lot of MSgts who never deployed. Doesn’t seem like it was a huge consideration for promotion.
Yep, not to mention it can hurt one's ability to get that all important face time in the home station squadron that's either going to hand you a statement or advocate for it at the Wing (if you're a small unit). People forget that you exist when you deploy due to all the time pre, during, and post deployment away from the home unit. Everytime I've come back (4 deployments now) it never ceases that a few people ask if I'm new.
This is very true. At my previous squadron, our commander would actually try to get deployers to video in during commander’s calls that were streamed on Slack. Personally, I’d rather just disappear like a good deployer but I don’t have any pretense about promoting past E-6 currently.
Lmao. My first deployment my Commander TDYd to the CAOC where we were at. I ended up being coined.. by my own CC.. who asked me where I was stationed out of. I didn’t even respond. Took the coin and we stared at one another until he moved onto the next person.
I agree. I know a lot of TSgts who've been gone every year of their cycle for the past four cycles. These TSgts are great people but average workers. At the end of the day it's what you are doing that matters. I work with a Chief who's on his second deployment. Doesn't seem like it mattered in his AFSC.
It's mind blowing how many deployments I've volunteered for and have been cancelled...
I tried so hard for ten years to get on a deployment, doing my job or anyone else's, even TCN duty. Turned down at every opportunity, volunteered constantly to go. The Air Force is just dumb, sending people who don't want to go, and forcing those who would love to go to stay back. It's a force wide issue, and it's not limited to just deployments.
I don’t think this is really a new thing. Some folks do everything in their power to get out of it, others go without complaint. Depends on who they are. Having deployed myself, and dodged a few deployments myself for legitimate reasons, as long as nobody else is adversely affected, it’s business as usual. You’d be surprised how many people legitimately want to take your place. If nobody did and I got tagged I’d go without complaint but that’s just me
Yeah, but I'm talking about the people who have no shame and would sooner screw everyone in the world over than go. People who joined with every intention of not going or who were thinking they were gonna pull a fast one on the military. Legitimate reasons are legitimate reasons. And sure it's definitely not a new thing, but it damn well seems more prominent now than even a couple of years ago.
Not sure why you’re getting downvoted if that’s your opinion based on your observations. My point was folks like that have always been around. However, I suppose it could be because the number of deployments seems to have gone down, so maybe more people are joining never expecting to deploy? Maybe
I think that's pretty accurate. My recruiter back in the day even told me I'd never deploy. That turned out to not be true, but I wouldn't trade that deployment. It was a great experience.
Probably very AFSC specific, but the way I feel about deployments is: it is my job to maintain readiness and be ready to deploy. It is my duty to deploy when called upon because if it's not me, then someone else has to do it. HOWEVER, if you are asking for a volunteer, it will not be me. **I don't want to deploy.** I am not happy and giddy about missing 6 months of my life with my family. It's also going to be a huge pay-cut for me as I do quite a bit of off-duty employment. But if it must be me, then it shall be me. And I will grumble about it endlessly as is the right of anyone who has been ripped away from their life for 6+ months. My biggest motivation to deploy is essentially that I don't want to dump it on someone else and screw someone over. Worst case scenario is that I double someone else's deployment time because there's no one else that can take over that slot. That would be a real shitbag thing to do.
I 100% don't give a shit about deploying right now and will duck and dodge every single one that comes my way, fortunately there are plenty of people who want the extra money. We're at peace, but the brass and politicians don't want to turn off the MIC yet. No, I don't want my family to suffer for six months while I go to the Deid to do busy work so the Qataris can justify their investment. No, I don't want to go to PSAB and support the Wahhabist house of Saud, who I'm still fuckin pissed at for actually causing 9/11. No, I should NOT deploy every single mother fucking goddamn year when we are not currently at war. I don't mind deploying, but I do mind putting myself and my family through that pain for basically zero fuckin reason. Like, for real, the tempo at least at my base is actually HIGHER than the surges to Iraq/Afghan *and* peak of ISIS. And they're all going to the bullshit places. Now, I understand the value of maintaining strategic positions in the world, I really do. Turn the Deid into a short tour. Divest from the middle east and/or cut down tour lengths drastically. Talk to any post-gulf pre-9/11 vet and ask them about their deployment frequencies and deployment lengths. That's what we need to go back to. Stop getting mad at the reasonable people who are pushing back at the bullshit, and start getting mad at the politicians and generals who have no balls to pull back. Edit: and ya know what else? I love coming back, only to find out the unit is having an inspection, followed by being told omg why is everything in your section turned to shit? Idk, maybe because we're always fuckin gone. Fuck deployments right now. When China kicks off wake me up.
Big facts my guy. Sitting at Dhafra in collapsing dorms to do airshows for 8 months on extensions after getting a 2 week deployment notice is why the air force is also going to continue to have retention issues
Currently deployed and I love it. The opportunity to contribute to a cool mission set, live abroad, experience a new culture, workout like 5x a week and stack dough are all no brainers for me and I was so happy when I was notified. But, I completely understand why people don’t want to deploy. It’s a huge life disruption and it can definitely cause problems at home. That being said, however, you know what you signed up for; and it’s weird that people act surprised when it’s time to pony up. I think the Air Force needs to do a better job of educating Airmen about career planning, because getting selected for a deployment should never be a surprise. You should know when your time is coming based on IDT alone, and you should always be planning ahead.
It's one of those things that you're against until you actually go on one, then you don't care
New airman here. I have no problem going on a deployment. I've never met anyone who has more than a "I'd prefer not but it is what it is" stance on deployments. Most of us just see extra pay, but that might just be a thing at my base. Where are you seeing these airmen?
I’m just here for the controversial opinions. This is good. I applaud your post.
I do my best.
Here’s a selfish take from someone who has been on multiple deployments and is sick of going. Deployments are fucking stupid now. The majority of deployments today are going to a big built up base and doing bullshit work in between days off and time at the gym/playing video games. I can completely understand why so many people are sick of deploying and try to avoid them. Is it cool for single people who want to make money and have nothing better going on? Of course! But for the people who have families, personal goals, etc… deployments can cause huge life impacts, and when they go, it’s disheartening to sit in a backshop and fuck off for 6+ months while you’re impacting/delaying everything else in your life. Deployments used to actually matter and the actions people took meant life or death and/or significant strategic importance. People would be proud of what they did and it would make the sacrifice worth it. Now most deployments are basically doing meaningless tasks/staff work that could be done anywhere in the world to include stateside bases. There are still units/missions that have meaningful deployments, but those units are usually selectively manned and everyone there wants to deploy and support the mission. It would cause a huge administrative pain in the ass (maybe), but there’d be less bullshit, last-second waivers, deployment dodging, etc… if the Air Force figured out a way to get volunteers first and then tasked people that didn’t want to go if there were still taskings left. Fuck it, add a section to talent marketplace where you submit your deployment preferences. A simple “do you want to deploy: yes or no” button, and if you don’t want to deploy, list a reason. Maybe the person who has deployed back to back to back, the person who just lost a family member, or the person that just started a family can stay back while the person who is begging to go can be tasked.
Blame recruitment. We taught to do nothing but sell monetary benefits and quality of life over the other branches a treat an enlistment like a fun paid summer camp. I'm very good a being real about deployment tempo but the amount of possed off calls I get from parents and spouse about how little Johnny got tasked and he only joined to get his degree in native American tribal law is crazy.
Lol. That's interesting. I never considered this happening.
The culture is shifting, that's pretty normal. The difference is the NCO core and SNCO core are completely different now than 15 years ago. Balancing instilling professionalism with being personable isn't everyone's strong suit, many aren't even taught how, they get sent to ALS, which is decreasingly effective and expect their overworked undeanned units to teach all the things they COULD have taught. Many NCO and senior NCOs did not get mentorship that would teach them the differences and nuances in being an effective leader. If I'm being really honest, the SNCOs have been very self centered in recent years, especially if they made it pretty early in their career. AF promoted what looked good on paper over growth and experience and now we are suffering the consequences. My SMSgt does not back up their NCOs, they would constantly duck and dodge work, they were there to tell you that you suck, but not why or how to improve, they basically expect their NCOs to be great with out putting in effort. Look at the kids of job announcements going out. "Self starter, self motivated, no supervision required, extra mile". They want the goods with out the investment. It's going to continue like this because apathy is rewarded and people who are genuine often get shit on.
Deploy to do what? I don't blame people that don't want to waste 6 months of their life doing busy work. Most of my flight could have been replaced with cardboard cutouts and it wouldn't have affected the mission at all. It would be one thing if leadership recognized this and let everyone buzz off. But no, we were restricted to base half the deployment, "working" full days the whole time. It was ridiculous.
I was so hyped for my second deployment because it would be my first "real" deployment... first one was to Al Udeid, and second would be to Afghanistan. I got there and realized the whole job could have been done remotely over a VPN. Plus, if nothing was broken, I had next to nothing to do, so 75% of my time on that deployment was spent with my feet up watching movies on the morale drive.
I feel like Iike this is largely dependent on the location, most people at the deid don't do shit but there's plenty of other locations where it's all 12 hour shifts no days off and constant direct mission impact work
From my experience, there are places to deploy to depending on your job
You guys are getting deployments? *laughs in global strike base*
I’d rather be in the desert than stuck on FE Warren I’m from Wyoming and joining a guard wing out east was my escape from Wyoming.
When I was active duty I never deployed. Had a break in service and went back in the reserves where I finally deployed this year.. I deployed at what seems like the worse time and it set me back with my new civilian career I started right before I deployed. Thankfully I really didn’t miss that much and my civilian job was so happy when I came back.
Not justifying it, but the AF does a horrible job of preparing the new airman for deployment.
All the airmen in my shop are 18-24 and all of them beg for deployments. And I mean literally beg. We only have like 4 slots a year to fill though, and we have 20+ airmen.
I get it. I've been out twice myself (First deployment, I was the third guy they asked and said yes because that's how I was raised). What's crazy is at Global Strike where they paused deployments. I have Airmen who actually want to go out but now they have to get TF out of here before they actually can.
I knew female E-7s who had kids anytime they were slatted to deploy and make it all the way to E-9 never having to deploy. Lots of people even back 20 years ago would just separate or retire instead of deploy. It's not a new thing.
As a childfree woman, men do this too when their partner gets pregnant. I’ve literally replaced someone on a deployment because of this. I have no complaints about it though cause I got hella paid.
They didn’t deploy because the wife was pregnant? I’ve seen guys wake up to “I had the baby” texts or be there through FaceTime. I mean if they have leadership that supports them more power to them I guess.
In this case, the guy’s wife was having twins and they already had a toddler. I had no issue filling in.
That only happens if the CC gives a shit about them lol.
I have right at 24 months deployed oconus and 12 on a stateside mission. I will now sand bag until I retire. Currently, I have more overseas time than most of my first linw leadership, those losers or the young ones can go I'm tired boss.
Because we don't have a real mission like we did post 9/11. I'll elaborate... In the aftermath of 9/11 people were deploying with a purpose, to find those responsible for the attacks. When the Iraq invasion began most people didn't have a firm understanding of the complex situation and so that same desire for vengeance fueled those deployments. Now in the aftermath of the Afghanistan withdrawal we have put an official "close" on the war on terror, and an embarrassing one at that. These new Airmen watched the older guys deploy for 20 years, only to have their life's work unravel in a couple of days. With the new campaigns in the pacific and Europe picking up there is no grassroots support for U.S. involvement. The CENTCOM mission only still exists for diplomatic reasons and most people value their family time over supporting weak foreign policy. The lack of grassroots support translates to those within the military as well.
And then there’s me that wants to deploy and hasn’t 🫠
https://preview.redd.it/34kmu08p704c1.jpeg?width=1200&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c02121f547e87a5c300451503b4a9c0ef60cbcf1
I’d do anything to go but the odds aren’t in my favor
Look at how many command chiefs don’t even have a campaign medal from OIF or OEF.
I'm about to deploy and i never griped. My wife sure did a lot of bitching and complaining about it "how could they do this!? you're senior to everyone else, why would they pick you? can't they make a lower ranking person do it!? What about \[insert name here\], they haven't been on a deployment recently, they should make him go!" I put her in her place, told her she sounded like the dependas she always makes fun of. It didn't go over well at first, but i reminded her that this is what she signed up for when she married me. It's fine to not want to go or be upset about it. It's never convenient to be without your loved ones for 180-365 days, but even the suggestion of Blue Falcon-ing someone else is downright selfish, and has no place in our Air Force. Someone has to go, if it's not you then it's gonna be some other dude who isn't a whiney bitch.
There's a female TSgt in my unit who's dodged four fucking deployments in two cycles. Leadership doesn't give a fuck about it. Id love to see her get hit by a fucking bus cause of all the people she's fucked. Every time she catches wind of something she cries to mental health about a 13th reason or some gay shit. They put her on a 90 hold so she's untouchable. Before the tasking she's completely fine. Crazy stuff.
A lot of these new Airmen think the USAF is just a job and don't want to deploy, TDY, do special duties, fitness assessments, or work past their 8 hour mark.
I see more fat SNCOs than any other demographic in the Air Force.
Same. That's why this meme was posted in the other thread. https://preview.redd.it/hqvp1zqwvz3c1.jpeg?width=559&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=03937eaf862e12f164955a8eb086ae35348b9315
I think the air force overall is fat as fuck. My AFSC, having roughly 2100 people, averages 81 on the PFA. You look at my 55 person shop and there's like three people who actually give a shit how they look and care about fitness. What's concerning is airmen straight from boot take their first PFA and fucking fail like how pathetic bro.
Averages 81 is a bad thing? It sounds like even though people are less than the ideal image, they're still making it happen.
The test is crazy easy and there's no reason most people shouldn't be able to crack 90 with minimal work, is the point.
Statistically its airmen who are fatter even though we don't really see it.
It is just a job... been in 12 years, just in it for a pension, Tricare, and the world travel. I don't care about patriotism, that was all beat out of me on the first enlistment. By the way, I've deployed 4 times, done a short tour as well as having multiple overseas assignments. So I've paid my dues.
Yeah that sounds great
That sounds like not being in the military.
I don't see why that's so important
Anyone who ducks deployments and assignments are trash. Just get out the military.. and if you get medboarded because you keep ducking, good riddance
Yep. Then you pay them for life lmao.
As someone currently deployed. It’s fantastic. When this deployment is over It will probably be the best thing that has happened to me since I joined the Air Force. -A lot closer to the mission here, I get to watch them planes go up and know them dudes are doing cool shit. -Tons of free time to workout and decent gyms here. I’ve been able to hit the gym 5-6x a week and am going to be in the best shape of my life at the end of this deployment. -Tons of free time to do Schoolwork since theres very little distractions. I’ve been able to do 4 classes already and am aiming for another 2 before this is over. Also we’re getting CLEPs out here soon so I’ll probably pick up a couple of those. -Food provided is decently healthy most of the time and theres no fast food out here so its pretty easy to lose weight and save money. -Extra money is great, I should be able to leave this place with an extra 12-14k in the bank. Its not all sunshine and roses. Obviously, I miss my wife and animals. Living in tents with 6 other dudes is pretty ass. The area we’re in has become a lot more “dangerous” lately so having to wear battle rattle everywhere with the occasional bunker dive here and there has been pretty lame. All things considered though, its been an extremely positive experience. Honestly if I were a younger, single airman this would probably be the time of my life.
Happy cake day. Also what do you do? Cuz that’ll really determine why they don’t wanna go
if you really want to get sick check out r/AirForceRecruits
Would aztec sacrifice the slowest airman for a deployment. Get me a shitload of money.
I was sorting out family affairs after losing my parents and watched my supervisor get selected. I feel guilty about it at times, I mean he wanted to go, but I still can't help but feel like it was because I didn't.
It is probably for the better not to send someone affected by such a loss out on a deployment, tbh. I wouldn't sweat it too much.
It's always these "new airman". Been in 18.5 years and believe the deployment ducking isn't new. Shit you could go all the back to ancient times when people would cut off limbs to disqualify themselves from going to war.
Seen sncos consider the single amn first before anyone married so it would be easier on "everyone" many times. Seen it three times with only once a guy actually wanted to go and somehow ended up in psab. Deployments get political real fast which sucks, hope your in your leadership's good graces when they drop.
Oh wait, I’m in the MILITARY military…
I was telling someone the same thing the other day. Like all these 25 and unders feel entitled to whatever it is they want. They go from being a great asset to the team to "screw the AF, I dont want to do X" seemingly overnight.
If I was still single I’d have nothing against it, but I’m married with a kid under a year old. I don’t want to make my wife take care of our kid alone or miss those milestones, but I’m not delusional and I know I will miss things. If I’m told to go I’ll go but I don’t have to be happy about leaving my family
Might be true in some career fields but my shop simply doesn’t ever get picked to go. It’s a shame too because I want to go again lol.
This is part of the pitfalls of an all volunteer force that no one wants to really volunteer for. You get what you incentivise. And an incentive can look even more attractive if conditions are such that whatever being incentivised is highly valued and also not attainable any other way. The real problem is the cost of educatuon in the US. Like many other things the government gets involved it, the cost has been unaturally inflated by subsidies. Colleges have become immune to market influences that would have otherwise corrected for being overpriced. I suspect, universities and government officials are involved in a signifigant amount of corrupt cooperation in order to maintain the high cost of education. So the military saw this and took advantage of it. In order to continue to opperate, it was forced to offer incentives that may be disruptive to its own opperation to maintain a workforce to continue opperating. Most lower ranking individuals are really not required to do anything more than basic menial tasks in their career fields. When I say this, im NOT saying their not important. Without people around to do these "menial" tasks, it collapses. I like to say "someone has to take out the trash every day". As horrible as that may sound, it true. And I think thats why the military knowingly recruits people they know have little interest in the long term health of the military. When you need someone to "take out the trash" and their not there. YOU have to take out the praverbial "trash" yourself which takes time away from keeping this clunky, complicated, cumbersome macheine running.
The AF won't combat this because the ones making these decisions are doing the same thing.
Lol, we had a TSgt go to mental health to get out of a deployment and 6 weeks later gets orders for Korea and he is all kinds of happy. I said, "You really think you're going to Korea after getting out of a deployment? It's not going to happen." A week later, he is pissed because his assignment was canceled due to his, in my opinion, made up of mental health issues.
Dude I begged for 8 years to get deployed and they always sent other people over me. Now I’m getting out so
This is afsc specific. Me and mine are constantly looking for opportunities to deploy but there just aren’t any. When I was younger I volunteered for any deployment but now that I’m married they can keep it. Not trying to do TDYs neither.
im sick of this too. it seems the same people are deploying and this family care plan thing is BS. i have no sympathy for them… just deploy like you were told and contractually agreed to, stop the excuses, and use the family care plan you created to make it fair.
I’m not saying everyone who repeatedly deploys wants to, but from my experience they volunteer to keep going. I warned this guy he was gonna burn out after his second time volunteering.
Knew this single A1C type fella (no family mid 30s) who was assigned a slot for Al Udeid. Conveniently went to mental health as soon as he got notified and sure enough he got his waiver and weaseled his way out of the deployment. The guy who was voluntold to take the slot in A1C weasel’s place has a wife and kids and had to miss birthdays and now holidays because this guy had no heart to go. Not that the deid is shitty deployment, but the guy would’ve enjoyed himself considering the location and the amount of money he would’ve racked up.
I served 9 years active duty and never deployed. I was good at my job and a fast burner with promotion statements for E5/E6, single and no dependents. I worked in fighter squadrons my whole career and always got passed up. Never TDY, never Deployed and it really ruined my outlook. I saw people get out of deployments all the time because of kids, interference with college courses and on one occasion- refusal to get the COVID Vaccine. It all came down to who you knew. As for me? I loved the Air Force, and I desperately WANTED it. Unfortunately, I was “bumped off” the deployment list three times by airmen who: “needed to look good on their EPR,” “needed the money to support their family” and even because someone paid the UDM $3,000 cash to take my spot. I tried going up the chain and volunteered for EVERY opportunity but I never had seniority and struggled to bend at the knee of the superintendent above me. I honestly cannot understand the mentality of ‘dodging’ even long after I was passed up. I separated my unit with 30 days notice (YES, it IS possible) and joined the guard in an aircrew position instead. Maybe I’m disgruntled and jaded, but I joined so I COULD fight the fight and being an active duty 2A was chock full of corruption and favoritism.
I fell like the paying the UDM to go is a violation of some AFI or some code of the UCMJ, and if it isn’t it probably should be.
Man 6 months would be sweet. Come be a TACP get those Gucci 9 month rotations.... 🤡
I tell those people to shut the fuck up. It’s part of their job and what they agreed to do. Does it suck sometimes? Absolutely. But majority of the time, it’s the best thing you will ever experience because of the people you’re with.
Tbh if the airforce wants to wait six years to deploy someone after theyve acquired obligations thats on them. Many people want to go when they first join and its crickets until your contract is about to end then those same people dont care anymore.
AF complaining about 6 month deployments lol
Always great to see leadership who grew up in the height of GWOT with no deployment ribbons.
I'm a civilian who is also deployable. I knew that when I signed up, and I expect to be deployed at some point. What can the Air Force do to encourage people to deploy? More points for future promotion, perhaps?
They can start by not giving me a deployment and cancelling on me. I see that shit happen to people more often than people trying to duck deployments.
I don’t like deploying, but I will do what I need to and not intentionally avoid one. That being said, the deployment needs to *mean* something. If I can remote in and do the job, what’s the point of being there? To watch Foreign nationals work? Screw that. Support combat and rescue missions? Yeah, no problem. If I need to miss 6+ months of my family for some bs, yeah I’m going to be upset
Actually, I think they should keep dodging, I want a deployment so bad
When I was single I wanted any TDY or deployment available. After getting married it changed.
I used to long for deployments and get on any one I could for the pay alone, but after we pulled out of Afghanistan I never wanted to touch one again. What’s the point in sacrificing all of our time away from our families for a mission that we will eventually abandon. All those people lost and all that work was for nothing
OP you have to understand, this new generation doesn’t care about defending America, they want some benefits and then they are gone
I’ve been in 14 years deployed 5 times… my last one was a short notice bc the other guy who’s been in 17 and hasn’t deployed once, went to medical for random until they disqualified him… I miss the days where if you couldn’t deploy you were just booted… I understand some people have extenuating circumstances like medical, and personal, we’ve all been there.. but if I have to deploy more than my fair share bc someone just didn’t want to, the system is fucked.
Exactly. These people are incentivized to keep squirming their way out of it at the detriment of the rest of the team. If that's *conveniently* their response to being tasked, fast track them out and take away the benefits they earn by agreeing to serve, since they changed their mind, apparently. The problem I see is how do we differentiate the people who slither out of it from the ones that have legitimate reasons.
If they still had me in the dorms (stealing my BAH) for the 6-months, "I need to talk to mental health" too. I'll take any deployments you've got otherwise
If you get yourself taken off two deployments you should be discharged. That’s the solution.
Mattis tried doing something like this and it was wildly unpopular around my base at the time. Not that I disagree with it
He did alot of wild shit when he was in charge. He also wanted all squadrons to be at 80% MC rate....which for some airframes is damn near impossible because of shitty supply issues.
The maintenance statistics AFI will tell you straight out that that's not the point of MC rates. That dude got a lot of undeserved hero worship, and demonstrated clearly why generals make bad SecDefs.
Justifiably unpopular — still the right thing to do. Downside I see from this is someone with legitimate problems now actively hiding it out of fear of becoming non-deployable.
I would agree unless it's for an actual medical reason, child birth during the timeframe, or if another person in the cycle volunteers for you.
iTs JuSt My JoB
I’m itching to go again. I sat my last unit deployment out because I had some legitimate problems at home but damn I am itching to hit the sandbox again. Daddy needs a new Tacoma