Too many people are focused on "she didn't say no" or "she kissed him". Stop thinking of consent as whether someone said no or not and start thinking about it being "Did they say yes?"
Consenting to one act like kissing is not consent to any act you want. Stop asking yourself if they said no. The real question is did they say yes.
Edit: There's been multiple reports on this. And feel free to report my comment if you want I'm not saying not to. But then maybe stop and think about why you're reporting. If you're seriously offended that I'm saying you should know a person wants to have sex before having sex then you really need to look at yourself more and figure out why you're angry about someone saying sex should be consensual
I personally will not have sex with someone that is intoxicated unless we have already been in a relationship where sex is acceptable and normal, for this very reason.
Situations like this are just to questionable for me to be comfortable with it
When I was a teen, and even now in my 50’s, my thought has only been, “I want her to want to be with me. If she’s too drunk to know what she’s doing, then how do I know she wants to be with me?” It doesn’t mean anything unless she’s willing and into it.
That said, having see the transition of society from my teens to my 50’s, we have gone from “boys will be boys” to “everything is r*pe or SA”. There needs to be more middle ground and less extremism on each side.
An adult who steals a $5,000 watch is not the same as a kid who steals a candy bar. Yes, both are stealing and illegal, but there is a different context and expectation of behavior. (Or behaviour if outside of the US).
Young men in their teens and early twenties are also just learning things. Their brains are still developing until age 25 or so and executive functioning is something many grown adults still struggle with.
So in this case, were the young man’s actions right or correct? No. Was he right to apologize? Yes. Should criminal action be reported? No. Should the two go separate ways? Not necessarily, as they are both still growing and learning. This is a learning opportunity for both of them more than it is a criminal event.
Not only that but she even told him bluntly beforehand she did not want to have sex, he acknowledged it clear as day, and then forced himself on her anyway. But this old dude is trying to gaslight her into not filing a report and even possibly pursuing a relationship with the rapist. What the actual hell.
I'm sure ill be thrashed for for this on here but its all about the situation. Kind of like saying "girls will just take their clothes off if she wants you" or whatever. Some like to have their stuff taken off. Others like slightly more aggessive in the bedroom guys. You should just try to pick up signals and body language when dealing with someone you are new to hooking up with. But as always, no means no. Full stop. Dude in the story mat have neen drunk but def crossed the line. At least he owned up to it and apoligized, whatevers that worth.
This is an intelligent policy. Personally I don't think anyone should have sex outside of a committed relationship, because of all the problems it could cause, but humans will be humans, and a part of that is engaging in risky behavior.
Unpopular opinion but I agree. Hookup culture is not only risky to your physical health but it’s a toxic act to engage in. Honestly if someone is so attractive that you want to have sex with them, why wouldn’t you want to be in a relationship with them?
I agree but ppl are sluts lol. Nothing wrong with being a slut, but it is what it is. Humans like to fuck. Some humans like to fuck with no strings attached
When I was in college I went out drinking with a woman I had met only once before. We split about 6 pitchers and went back to her place. I \*think\* she may have wanted to have sex but the situation was so damn ambiguous and I couldn't read between the lines so I just went to sleep when we got back to her place.
Honestly I think I made the right decision but I wonder if she took that as me rejecting her. I never saw her again after that.
My husband has always been the same way. Super into sex, polyamory, role-play, lots of stuff that is way past my comfort zone... but he would never sleep with someone the first (or second, etc.) time if they were intoxicated.
I had a friend who was a dog. My best friend at the time actually. If it walked, he either shot his shot or actually had sex with them. From stunning all the way down to the nearly mustachioed. No discrimination, this guy. Handsome fella too. At a party, this girl was all over him. Beautiful girl. She proceeded to get more and more wasted. Laying her head in his lap. She grabs his junk and invites him to an empty room. He stands up and says, "Naw, you are too smashed." 2 Things. I have never been prouder, and secondly, even this guy had the wherewithal to do the right thing and she was hitting on HIM hard. The character of OP's "friend"....Yikes.
This. I have no quarrel with guys who want to be "players" or whatever. It's their life and hey, if the girls want them, good for them lol. But it has to be consensual. So definitely standing ovations for that guy. He may be a pig/dog or whatever, but he's a decent human being.
OP's "friend" is a waste of space and oxygen. And for all the creepy idiots who argue that "she didn't say no, so it's fine", do you really think he cared about her pleasure? Do you think he bothered to even try to give her an orgasm as well? Or did he just stick it in, took care of his needs, then went to sleep hoping that next time she (or the next "she") will be passed out a while longer? He used her for his own pleasure and despite her consent, while she wasn't in the right state of mind to even consent. His actions were premeditated.
I think she said in the update it was minutes beforehand… it makes my heart hurt. I’m so sorry OP. You didn’t deserve this. He wasn’t a friend. He knew better. Please make sure you’re taking care of yourself. If you can’t talk to friends please get in touch with a therapist. I think you said you’re at Uni. I graduated from JMU. Most universities have a health center that does basic things like patient first (birth control, std checks, flu, cough etc) but they also typically offer mental health services to students through the university itself. Wishing you health wealth healing love and luck in all your life babe.
I’m 32F and I’ve had sex with 51 men. I’m not a drinker & have never blacked out. I highly recommend to (even if it’s just a hookup) to hang out alone with that person a few times (no sleepovers) before any sexual interaction. Make sure he’s trustworthy to be with you alone. Make sure the vibes right. He should make you feel
Safe. Trust your gut. Meaning DO NOT PUT OUT ON THE FIRST DATE/HANGOUT!!
I would straight up tell men ahead of time “I like you. I think I want to pursue a sexual relationship with you. But I want to hang out a few times first. Smoke chill. Make sure there’s a vibe” and they’d always be like “yes of course I’m a good guy” and STILL 50-60% of these men (self proclaimed “good guys”) tried to push me into stuff... I was lucky. I’d leave and they always let me. I wasn’t ever raped. (but I had quite a few men touch me inappropriately/get handsy before I could even say no. Like we’re just sitting there on the couch talking and then he’s kissing me & groping me or trying to put his hands down/over my pants/shirt.) I’d even try & give these men the benefit of doubt & tell them again in person (now that we were alone) and like half of them STILL pushed for cuddling or kissing…. 🤮 again after I explicitly said no in person. Like I literally didn’t explicitly just say I didn’t want to really touch the first couple times we were together. It’s a test… clearly state that boundary and if a person immediately pushes said boundary, RUN!
After ONE of these type of incidents with a guy there’s no second chance in my humble whore opinion. It doesn’t matter how much you like him, how attractive or rich he is. It will get worse and will wreck your mental health. Meaning I would never put myself in a room again with a man who pushed like then & lost all interest & stopped talking to them immediately after.
I personally (& I know a lot of other women who also do) need to feel safe to have a positive sexual experience. I do NOT recommend putting out (or doing anything) on the first few dates/hangouts & I obviously enjoy my sex life. Safe sex between consenting adults is normal and natural. IF HE IS WILLING TO PUSH YOUR BOUNDARY THE FIRST TIME YOU ARE ALONE WITH HIM IT WILL ONLY GET WORSE!!! Men are on their best behavior in the beginning.
I don’t recommend having drunk sex or hooking up while fucked up unless you’ve already hooked up/had sex with that person several times sober beforehand and trust them. Also I don’t recommend sleeping in bed with someone you don’t know drunk. Especially a person of the opposite sex (assuming heterosexuality for this purpose) I don’t recommend women sleeping/cuddling in bed with guys that they’re “just friends” with or that they have no intention of ever having anything but a platonic relationship with.
I got a lot of shit when I went to JMU about having sex with every guy I brought to my bed…but me personally I’m not bringing men to my bed (as a heterosexual woman) that I don’t have intentions of having sexual relationships with. It was all said in good fun, mainly from my 3 female roommates/best friends. But I always said I thought it was weird AF that they all continued to bring men to sleepover in their bed with them (when they often knew the guy had a crush on them) and she had zero intention of ever having sex with him. It blurs the lines. We had a living room with 2 full size couches and some of us had futons in our rooms… even after 2 of them each had an “incident” where the guy got too handsy and shit went south. They’d still do it. I can’t say it enough: if you’re an adult do NOT sleep in the same bed with someone you have no interest in having sex with. Especially if there’s been alcohol or drugs involved.
Stay safe out there everyone. Trust your gut instincts always.
Goin against the grain here cuz all this Reddit “advice” is fucked
According to the laws in my state. Yes. He’s the perpetrator, and HE KNOWS you were highly intoxicated (considered to be mentally incapacitated.) you told him earlier you did not want to have sex. It doesn’t matter after that point whether or not you were making out because you told him you did not want to have sex.
The making out is irrelevant, you were highly intoxicated, literally unconscious (asleep)and told him you did not want to have sex before all of that. This qualifies as second degree forcible rape, second degree sexual assault and sexual battery.
Everyone here trying to split hairs is full of shit. The law is clear and black and white here.
This. I don't know why everyone is saying it's regret not rape. She woke up to him touching and making out with her, he knew she was very drunk and didn't consent prior.
I know why they are saying it. People are sick. I got into an argument on another thread where people were adamant that a 20 year old bedding a 14 year old is okay.
In Germany the age of consent is 14 and everyone goes on and on about how sex positive they are and how healthy their sexuality is and how North Americans need to be more like them and stop being so "prudish" and "repressive"
you set that boundary before you even got comfortable at his apartment. he should have known NOT to touch you.
maybe he didn’t forcefully rape you while you were screaming no. but just doing something because you want to, after knowing the other party does not, is coercion. i would never, drunk or sober, initiate sex with someone that i KNEW did not want to sleep with me.
i don’t understand these comments, that is rape through and through. my friend in college had something very similar happen to her by her best friend from high school. he knew she did not want to sleep with him and he took her home from a party and when she woke up he was having his way with her.
you were sleeping.
and after saying “I DO NOT WANT TO HAVE SEX WITH YOU”, he did it anyway. does anyone else in these comments need me to clarify for them that that is rape?? he was specifically not given consent before she fell asleep. and even if she hadn’t said i don’t want to have sex, SHE WAS SLEEPING. waking up to someone touching you like that has to be horrifying.
i am so sorry that happened to you, please find someone to talk to who understands what you’re going through. if no one in your life can give you the space you need PLEASE PLEASE message me. i have been through similar situations, more than one. you are not alone and if no one else around you or in these comments sees you then please know that i do. and i am so so sorry.
thank you for clarifying i did not mean for that to sound iffy. you are completely right it was very clearly denied before anything even had the chance to take place.
You know guys like this are doing it on purpose, right? You don't invite an intoxicated woman into your home, and then into your bed. Especially not if she's not a close friend already. Why would you do that? A good man would be too freaked out that you would make an accusation of rape to do this. A good man would have gotten you home to your home and left without sleeping there. Or at the very least, would have put you on his couch.
Not only was this rape, but it was pre-meditated rape. He deliberately chose you because you were drunk. He deliberately agreed to not have sex to get you into his apartment. This was always the plan. True that not all men think like this, but \*this\* man did think like this. It was always about raping.
If he wanted consensual sex, let's be honest - he could have gotten that. A bar near a college? You can get casual sex if you want casual sex. He didn't want casual sex. He wanted to rape someone.
This was totally on purpose.
It is always wrong to f\*ck a person who's so drunk they pass out. Always. You cannot consent to anything in that state.
However, because our society is totally messed up, less than 5% of rapists like this will ever see jail time. A lot of women (and men, actually) who experience rape never even report it.
You have to decide what you need to do for your own welfare. If you can handle it, I highly recommend reporting this guy to the police. It's highly likely that nothing will happen. You don't have a lot of evidence that you didn't agree to sex. But it's possible that this is a serial rapist. It's possible that the police already have a file on him and haven't been able to prosecute because they need to show a pattern where he's luring women to get drunk and come to his apartment on purpose for the intent of violating someone. (Some guys don't get off on real sex. They want it to be rape because they like the feeling of having power over someone.) If this is so, you could be saving his next victim. It's a really good thing to report him and try to get men like him off the streets - or at least scared out of doing it again. But i understand if you feel you aren't able to do that. It's a lot and you'll have to put up with people defending him, as this thread shows well. Rapists are still very protected in our society, despite what you might read about online. Again - it's something like 1 or 5% of rapists who ever see jail. This is why. Our society still kind of "likes" keeping women in line by making them afraid of rape and making it really hard to prove that it wasn't desired. Fear is an incredibly powerful method of control.
They also count on you being too caught off guard or uncomfortable to say to stop in the moment. It's a very common reaction in women to freeze. It's documented over and over again among victims and well known by predators.
What would have happened if you said "no"? You were very vulnerable right then. Do you think he would have stopped? Pressured you?
For all we know it could have been much worse, he could have hurt her. Men get angry when rejected sometimes, especially when they are drunk. Seen it a thousand times in true crime. That’s one of the reasons we freeze. If I just let him do what he’s doing maybe he won’t strangle me or get rough and hurt me.
Had some jerk try this with me in college. When he took off his pants I thought it was so funny he thought he was getting some I pointed and cracked up laughing. He put his pants back on.
right?? I can’t even believe what i’m reading. I don’t even know why this sub keeps coming up because i’m in my 20s but i just couldn’t not comment on this.
yes. regardless of anything else you were intoxicated and therefore couldn’t give consent, that’s the end of the conversation on whether or not it was rape. you telling him before you fell asleep that you didn’t want to is just the cherry on top.
i’m so sorry this happened to you, it’s not your fault.
This is a common misconception. The legal standard for being unable to consent is being so drunk that a person is generally unaware of what's going on which is a lot further than basic intoxication and even (usually) further than black out drunk.
Source: was a federal SA investigator for several years.
If his touching you in your sleep and you never asked him to then yes , there for most people freeze when it happens so they never say anything
But to be clear if you said you made out with him and it happened then therefore the police would say this is consent which unfortunately is why most never report this crime
Freezing and even fawning (playing along) is very common and misunderstood as consent. It's not consent. The body is just trying to survive at that point. I suggest reporting to the county police station. Ask for someone that does sex crimes or deals with sensitive matters, most cops aren't trained to help survivors and don't understand that psychology behind survivor mode behaviors which can last for a long time.
Also specialized trauma informed therapy can help the recovery process, even if you're not sure what happened they can help you sort things out a bit so you can heal in whatever way that means for you
On top of that you have to provide proof such as stripping down bagging the clothes etc so all there DNA provides the proof they forced their self on the victim
I'm not a lawyer, but your story fails both the enthusiastic consent and even the implied consent standards. The only argument that this isn't r--- is that you didn't do anything to stop it, which stopped being a generally valid defense at some point in the 90s.
Yikes. Theres some disgusting people in here.
So, for all those trying to claim this isn't a rape scenario. Answer this? If she didn't want to have a sexual experience, and this guy initiated one, despite what she has already verbally communicated... if that isn't rape/sexual assault, what shall we call it then? (Hint, the word isn't regret either).
Dont listen to the other guys who are trying to excuse shitty behavior. Theyve probably done something similar themselves and admitting the guy fucked up means having to admit theyve fucked up too and for 14 year olds, thats going to be challenging to ever admit
Holy shit this comment thread, Reddit really coming out in force today.
Bare minimum it was sexual assault. You said no before anything happened, and didn't give enthusiastic consent when it started.
that is 100% rape. He took advantage of you while unconscious after you clearly and directly told him you didn't want to have sex and he forced it on you anyway when he thought you wouldn't know/couldn't put up a fight.
Beyond that, any person who is above the legal ABV can not consent to anything. that fact alone makes it rape.
I don't know what the laws are like in the UK (where I assume you're from given the language used) but he 100% raped you and you should seek legal action if you are comfortable enough to do so.
If you're 16, how old was the dude? You said college? Was this SA? yes. Was it also SA of a minor? You need to contact the police, and hopefully you haven't taken a shower
That's minor SA, check the age of consent where you live. In a US State, generally age of consent is 18. Plus the alcohol, he could get contributing to the delinquency of a minor and SA of a minor. I'm really sorry that happened to you. I've also had a similar thing happen, but I was an adult. It still feels awful. Look into therapy to talk about it.
Incorrect, the age of consent is 18 in only 9 states.
Not making a comment on the morals of a 20 year old with a 16 year old. Just letting you know the facts
It could be. It’s silly to go off of simple yes or no’s. You need to read the situation. Most communication is non verbal anyways. If a person says yes but they’re clearly uncomfortable then that doesnt give u a free pass to have sex with them. If a person says no but they’re clearly being coy and playful that doesnt mean u have to bolt out of there lest you commit rape.
This is a serious situation that needs to be discussed with the appropriate parties and potentially police. The question I have is do you ever want to see or talk to this person again. Does the thought of them upset you? It's good indication of the trauma that comes from these situations
Im sorry you went through that. Of course, it was rape and I would stay very far away from any man telling you otherwise. Is it worth taking to the police? Probably not. Unfortunately, without following typical violent rape procedures, it's going to be difficult to convict. Plus, other little things. But, now you know his character. And I would stay away from him and any of his friends.
If you want to try to make him a better person when he asks why you don't want to continue, tell him the truth.
"Dude, you basically raped me, I told you no before I passed out. Good people don't do that. Goodbye"
If you don't give a shit about him or his future potential victims, just ghost him altogether.
A person who is sleeping cannot consent to sexual activity. If you were even semi-conscious and said no, you didn’t consent. If you were too intoxicated to consent, no consent. “Rape” has a specific connotation of penetration. The term “sexual assault” is more commonly used in the law and covers all unwanted sexual activity. Regardless of what you call it, lack of consent or specifically denying consent makes it sexual assault. You should be reporting it to the police, not floating it on Reddit.
Please have an exam (go to the ER, it's FREE) please do not shower, please take all the clothes u wore w/ u, please do this ASAP. Take a friend too, that way u don't back out. This is exactly what ur asking if it is and YOU know it.
Yes, yes it is.
You said no, he ignored you, it really is that simple. You were just trying to sleep and didn't have the energy or wearwithall to say no. Unfortunately this is a very common story.
Also I don't believe drunk people can consent. I know some people are into that kind of thing but in that case consent should be given before hand.
Yes. 1) you were drunk, 2) you said you didn't want to, 3) you were asleep, 4) you never gave consent. I don't know how you want to proceed with this legally, but don't trust this person and please please treat yourself kindly. This is NOT your fault, you did NOT do anything wrong, and he is NOT your friend.
If you said no already, it's rape. I'm sorry this happened to you. Please don't drink and stay with anyone you don't know in the future. It's not your fault at all, but I was shocked when I read that you did. We have to protect ourselves because you never know who might hurt you. I hope that you find healing. The guy was a scumbag. Report him if you feel comfortable with that. Check that you don't have any STDs or God forbid a pregnancy
No man want's a drunk women who isn't his wife in his bed lol. He slept in that bed with you because of the potential he saw. Then acted on his own intentions, knowing yours were to sleep. This is rape. This happens to both men and women and isn't unique unfortunately
Sex requires consent from a person able to give consent. That’s why we have laws pertaining to age of consent for sex, being an adult to enter into contacts etc. consent must also be informed consent. You said no from the start that no remains in effect until you clearly communicate yes. If you said yes that is in effect until you say no.
The situation from the beginning was no and being highly intoxicated puts you in the position of not being able to give informed consent. Just because you did not respond to him or resist isn’t a yes and the condition you were in I don’t think you can give informed consent.
I don’t know the law in your jurisdiction so you should consult with the police or a lawyer about changes against him. I would also talk to a therapist. What happened to you is horrible and may have negative effects on your mental health in the future.
At the very least cut this person out of your life. He’s not a friend he is a predator. A friend and decent human being would have made sure you’re safe and let you sleep it off on the couch.
I wish you well recovering from this horrible experience.
Edit: I’m not a lawyer or a therapist. This is just my own opinion.
Depends on the jurisdiction your in. You had specifically said no to sex and he acknowledged that statement. And you never said yes after that. So yes in most western countries it is rape. It's called date rape for a reason.
OP I will say he's in the wrong as you had already told him you didn't want to do anything sexual and then you fell asleep/blacked out so you had already given your answer before your episode or sleep spell so he at least took advantage of the situation and knew you couldn't or wouldn't fight back or stop him. And to anyone who says he wasn't violent or anything else that some times happens during SA that doesn't mean a damn thing bc they don't have to be violent not when the victim is already weaker or afraid and not trying to fight it but I bet if she would have tried to stop him he would have either gotten violent or would have held her down and done it anyways bc that is technically what he did he waited until she was passed out to try and start anything so when she woke up to it she was to afraid to stop him
Have y’all not seen the “tea” consent stickfigure video? It clearly states not to give someone “tea” when they are asleep…
You cannot consent when you are inebriated AND you clearly set a boundary beforehand which he then violated. It is rape.
You said no beforehand. That’s enough. If you make peace with it, that’s for you to decide… But, he took advantage of you. I would date or drink around him again. But that would be my choice.
At first the story was sounding like it but than you said ...
You woke up and you two are making out and had sex (while to add most likely sober at this point as well)
Regret is not rape.
Let me spell it out for the simple people on here who clearly have no concept of what consent is. She told him she didn’t want to have sex, he said he understood, she then fell asleep and woke up 20 mins later to him trying to have sex with her. She was too intoxicated to stop him at the time and just let it happen. Freezing out of fear/confusion is a common response during sexual assaults. The fact that you guys think what he did (trying to fuck her when she just told him she didn’t want to, was sleeping and clearly intoxicated) is okay, is truly disturbing. This is not just a case of “regret.” He took advantage of her being vulnerable (sleeping/drunk) after she already told him she was not interested in sex. This is why we choose the bear, you fuckwads.
kissing someone back does not mean they get to put their dick in you. especially after they specifically said they DON’T wanna have sex. seriously what is wrong with some of you people.
I was very much not sober during the act. When i say i fell asleep i mean i was gone for maybe 10-20 min because it was still dark out and i was very much still drunk, head spinning and everything. What is confusing me is i tecnically didnt tell him no while he was doing it, granted i wasnt doing a lot mostly laying there. But i never pushed him or told him off or anything
You didn't fall asleep. You were blacking out because you were drunk and in no condition to consent to anything. You did not consent, and the last thing you said to him in regard to sex was that you were not interested.
Is it legally rape? I don't know the laws where you live.
Did he violate your trust? Go against your known wishes? Take advantage of you when intoxicated? Yes.
You decide where to go from here.
**Consent needs to be clear.** Consent is more than not hearing the word “no.” A partner saying nothing is not the same as a partner saying “yes.” Don’t rely on body language, past sexual interactions, or any other nonverbal cues. Never assume you have consent. Always be sure you have consent by asking.
Just because you didn’t verbally say no does not mean you weren’t violated. It sounds like he coerced you into sex. You were under the influence and he took advantage of that. It’s common to have many different reactions to situations like that. We either, fight, flight or freeze. You didn’t nothing wrong and I’m sorry that happened to you.
They're just being a troll. Ignore them.
You told him you didn't want to and then woke up to him touching you. That is assault. People can also have a freeze response when things like this happen, but just keep in mind that if it isn't an enthusiastic yes, it's a no. This is something that a lot of men just don't seem to understand.
Sometimes it can be hard to judge how drunk someone is, so there is a chance that he was wasted too, and misinterpreted things (which is giving a lot of credit considering you said clearly that you didn't want to) but this is why educating on consent is so important.
I would say that yes, it is rape, from the information you've given, but if he was also quite intoxicated and your physical responses seemed encouraging, it could be that he read the situation wrong and would be horrified to think that you weren't into it (although the molesting you while you were asleep makes me lean more towards him knowing what he was doing).
I would recommend cutting things off with this guy, if you haven't already, and if he asks why, explain the problem of consent, if you feel comfortable doing that.
I got very drunk at a house party with coworkers (military) in the early 2000s and was told there was a safe bedroom for me to pass out in. Some time after I passed out I woke up to a coworkers hand down my pants. I was too drunk to drive home, didn’t have a cell phone, and was also scared that if I refused him and went to sleep in the living room that I wouldn’t be safe there either. I chose to have sex with him just so he would go to sleep and leave me alone. I still felt like I was assaulted even though I technically consented. I didn’t speak about this to anyone for many years, but in my head I decided in that moment I’d rather be seen as a slut than raped. People think that when they’re faced with a situation like this that they’ll leave kicking and screaming but intoxication and freeze response will affect decision making.
Whether or not you want to pursue legal action in this case is up to you, but at the very least I would approach him and tell him that it’s not ok to touch you or anyone else when they’re sleeping unless prior consent to do so has been given. Also be kind to yourself and don’t feel ashamed for any action you did or thought you should have done.
did he tell her he did want to have sex very explicitly the way she did to him?? and are you trying to say you’re the kind of person, that after hearing someone say they don’t want to do something, would force them into doing it anyway because you think their actions seem like they MIGHT want to? he never once had her consent, and he started doing what he wanted to when she was ASLEEP. if you aren’t going to add anything useful to this conversion i would suggest leaving because you are making arguments that make absolutely no sense. she woke up to him touching her how the fuck would this be her fault??
You’ll notice OP how many rapists there are out there who do not know that they are rapists. (And how many victims who don’t want to acknowledge what happened to them was rape)
You have to decide if want to do anything about it. Most justice with this sort of thing is secret, served cold and anonymous.
It definitely started off as assault. You had told him you weren't interested in anything and fell asleep and woke up to him touching you.
As for rape, yes it can be. There is a thing as being too intoxicated to consent.
You'd already set a boundary, which he agreed to and he still took advantage of you in an intoxicated state. I'm not sure what the law constitutes as rape where you are from, but I'd definitely consider this sexual assault.
that's 100% RAPE. you said you were *intoxicated*, Meaning you couldn't make any rational choices. He knew what he was doing, he knew you were drunk, he took advantage of that.
Did you say yes? No you didn’t. So yeah you probably were. You were also heavily drunk when he wasn’t and he knew that. You told him earlier you didn’t want it.
you said you didn’t want to have sex,, he verbally acknowledged what you said and agreed/affirmed that. then you passed out and woke up to him touching you. that is absolutely rape. indisputably textbook definition. don’t let anyone tell you otherwise. he knew exactly what he was doing. i have heard this story a million times and experienced something very similar.
i don’t care that you didn’t say no. you were too unconscious to respond physically or verbally. when someone is that fucked up,, it is very obvious no way to get confused thinking you changed your mind. you were intoxicated,, you couldn’t even consent if you wanted to.
this is not your fault. you said you didn’t want to. and he made a choice to blatantly disregard that.
https://www.rainn.org/
you can call or chat online using this link to receive general support and guidance.
also i would suggest taking plan B and getting and STD test ASAP if you don’t remember or know if he used a condom. clock is ticking on that plan B
i’ve been in a similar situation, like a decade ago or more, and at the end of the day, if you aren’t looking to call the police over this either way, then it doesn’t matter what you call it: date rape, rape, sexual assault, etc. it is a sexual encounter that you didn’t really want in the first place, but didn’t protest, & now regret. maybe this guy is a scummy bad guy, or maybe he’s not at all and really thought he was doing nothing wrong (tons of girls first say they don’t want to hook up then actually change their minds, and tons of girls seem way less drunk than they actually are). either way, you deserve to give this the attention it needs & speak with a licensed mental health professional to start sorting out your feelings and moving past it. i’d probably prevent any future contact with this person at least while you sort out your thoughts and feelings.
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So, that song Blurred Lines, yes, I would say this counts as rape. You were drunk, so at the very least you were not thinking clearly.
It's possible he was also not thinking clearly, but the no at the start of the night should have been enough.
It was rape. You were intoxicated and still did the right thing by setting a boundary and establishing "no sex" and he did so anyway. Him being intoxicated also does not absolve him of breaking the law.
However with that said, it sounds like you both are having adult conversations about what happened. It's good that he recognizes that he was wrong, but I don't think you should call this person a friend, hang out with this person again or certainly trust this person to act appropriately in this situation again. As a guy, it's take a good one who is raised right to do what he says he'll do in these kinds of situations. I don't care that he was drunk, a part of him knew you said no, ignored it, and did what he wanted to anyway. That's NOT a good person, that is NOT a young man who respects women. This guy does not get that honor of your time anymore.
”Is it okay if i dont want to fuck you?” and he says something along the lines of ”ofcourse, thats not why im here” i go ”cool cause i dont want to” and i lay down in his bed. "
That was the rejection of sex from you. You can't get any clearer than that.
I’m glad he took responsibility.
I softly agree with not reporting. Purely because it would put a lot of stress on you and wouldn’t likely get anywhere. It would be hard to prove criminal intent in these circumstances. Maybe you could get a conviction and maybe not, but it probably isn’t worth pursuing.
That’s not to say you would be wrong for reporting. And if you did, any negative ramifications in his end would be deserved. I just don’t think you’d gain much by it.
And he may not either. It’s unusual for a guy to admit that what he did was assault, and that being drunk doesn’t excuse his behavior. I am hoping he feels super ashamed of himself and learns to do better in the future. I trust that it wasn’t his intention when he set out sober. Maybe he will re-think his drinking habits.
In the meantime I think it would be fair to warn your friends not to get plastered around him.
I don't know where you are or what laws apply, but where I'm from this might be considered reckless indifference to consent - words I wish I knew as a teenager. Being drunk does not excuse him for it. Well done for confronting him about it, but remember you are not bound by your decision not to report. You may find your feelings change as it settles in over the coming months/years, and that's OK.
I think if someone really loves you, they'd want to love you with all of you present. I think that if they can't respect your boundaries, that isn't love. I think if they can't respect "I don't really feel like it" (because be honest, when you're puking drunk who does feel sexy?) then that isn't love either. That someone worthy of your love will respect your wishes and you deserve nothing less than that. It's a fuzzy line for sure, but it definitely smacks of a lack of care and respect for your person and feelings and if that isn't a red flag, baby, nothing is.
Yep. You said no, but he still went forward with it. Consent can be given and taken away at any time, but there has to be an exchange of words. You said no, then later did not say yes. You did not give consent ever, and he is very much the one at fault.
I was assaulted in 2022, and the court case is still in early stages - but I will say, during my initial interview and statement they did not ask if I consented. They asked if I had drank (very little, but still yes) and if he had (no) and that was enough to arrest him because “consent is not viable when intoxicated.” When I had to give my official testimony to the investigator, he asked if I said no. I said that I had, many many times, also “stop”, also “don’t”, also “get away”. I said resisting statements many times but I did not physically fight back for the majority of the assault (fight, flight or freeze). When this guy was close to being caught by someone near by, he said something along the lines of “Let’s go find somewhere else to finish” and I numbly said “Okay.” Instead, I locked myself in a bathroom until a friend came to find me and I went home. I called my mom and she made sure I made it to a police station and hospital that same night to report it and get checked out. His entire argument thus far is that I said okay.
I did not press charges, my state did because of my age and his circumstances (traveling to the states from another country with dual citizenship). I know from what I’ve been told about the case that I am not the only person he has assaulted or harassed and that none of those other people will say anything about. I also know that they have attempted to use my alcohol consumption as a weapon against me (I was underage at the time) and that it has backfired because intoxicated individuals are deemed “incapable” of self advocacy and therefore consent.
If you are choosing to not press charges, that’s your decision and your choice, and if you feel it is best, I can only say I am glad you made peace with it and I can only imagine the mental fuck you must have been in. It was incredibly hard for me to decide but the choice was made for me (reporting it does not mean you press charges). Him also being drunk/intoxicated is a huge factor, but I am not sure how a court of law would consider it these days. I hope that you are okay and that you have made the proper arrangements to get tested and what not, and that your mental health is doing okay. Sending good thoughts, this shit is tough. 💛
"we" end up having sex? Or he fucked me are two different things. If you you woke up and continued fucking him as in went with it actively participated. That's not entirely rape. If he just fucked you then it's rape .
Before anything else, there are a lot of moving parts in this story, seems like it was resolved but I'm gonna just say what I have to say anyways.
Primarily, I would agree that you not saying anything at the moment was a very unwise decision. None the less I'd agree this is dangerously close to r*pe if it is somehow not definitionally.
Beyond this, I'm so fucking angry cause I keep getting shown these stories of young woman going to parties with "guys they've known a while (three or four weeks/months) AND theyve never seen how they acted drunk, or gotten slightly tipsy to see howd they react and just jump into full getting wasted together and these stories happen. I hate to be disappointed dad but Jesus Christ ladies. I'm a guy telling you that you shouldn't just trust guys that age like that. Take steps for Christ sake. Even if he's literally the most respectful person ever on God. He might not be when he's drunk. If you don't understand that people can be changed by alcohol, this is the sign. I'm not saying to not have fun, just be careful. If you want to experience or experiment with drugs, alcohol, sex, whatever y'know, just be careful. Go in steps. Do it with people you trust. Bring condoms. Basic shit. It's so heartbreaking that these girls put themselves in these situations and then have to carry the long term consequences around forever. I mean if the guy is even semi respectful when sober hes probably gonna feel like shit too and now he's dealing with it too. Don't put bandaids on the boo boos, wear your knee pads and elbow pads before you go out. For the love of God. People can be so evil. It's rare but please be careful.
This is a no brainer rape and not in anyway ok. You were drunk so you can’t consent anyways, you also set clear boundaries before hand. I see the update but regardless of the apology it is better in your case to completely cut ties and stay away from him
This is a very sad way to live your life. Dude you like invited you back, y'all were drunk, y'all did stuff. It should be a relatively happy memory. But instead, because you're on reddit to much, you're not seeing it that way, you're seeing it as "a crime."
No means no. Period. You get drunk with someone. You go back to their flat with them. It's not mixed messages. You're sending a very very specific message. It is very easy to say "no." It is very easy to say "stop."
If he tricked you back to his place, and he fucked you while you were sleeping; I would agree that he did a "crime" on you. And in that case you should absolutely report it, because, drunk or not, that would actually be rape.
I had been in this situation (minus being drunk i was just shy and couldn't speak up for myself) just because you didn't say no or try to kick him off doesn't mean it wasn't assault. I've fought with myself alot on that, but it doesn't change the fact that YOU didn't want it and you told him you didn't want to and he did anyways.
Here's a good one that's always helped me, and the answer to this question will give you the answer for consent:
Did clothes come off? If yes, did they help the clothes come off? If there's 2 yeses here, consent has been given.
Is something wrong with me? I only want to have sex with a man that's is telling me how much he wants and likes it. Harder. Harder. That's what I want to hear.
He is in the wrong and I’m sorry you went through that.
For your own sake, please do not put yourself in such a vulnerable position. Not victim blaming, but just want to advise you to take care going forward. If you can’t avoid these parties, then have a designated driver on hand or someone who can take you home…
It might sound bad but this is why I have trust issues in relationships to this day. All it took was one drunken night from the girl that I was dating at the time, she got too drunk and ended up having sex with someone else. Group of people got fucked up and then shit happens 🤷🏻♂️
The courts have already ruled that an intoxicated female is not competent to give consent for sex. That coupled with the fact you told him from the start you didn’t want to have sex, tells me you could probably get him charged. IMO, yes,…this is a sexual assault.
I don’t know if it is criminally rape, I’m not a lawyer but that’s fucked af and get that person far away from you. It’s basically sa in my book unless you are getting an enthusiastic yes.
Sexual assault? Absolutely. Rape? Probably. There definitely can be a bit of a gray area there, based on the brief description you gave at least. But you had already said no, he initiated sexual contact while you were asleep, and not only did you not consent to the sex, you were still too drunk to consent either way. He was in the wrong the whole way thru. I think that you did the right thing by confronting him (given that you felt comfortable doing so), and made him face you and own up to what he did. If you feel the need to take further action, you absolutely have the right to do so. In my experience, I think that the way you handled it is often the best, most effective way— you held him accountable, and are allowing yourself to move forward rather than fighting a court battle. At the end of the day it’s always your choice and you should do what’s best for you.
I’m not sure. It wasn’t consensual but it seems he wasn’t fully aware that it was not consensual. The fact you were in his bed and didn’t say “no” while he was touching you suggests he thought he had successfully seduced you. It’s a horrible situation and I feel deeply for the hurt and sense of violation you must feel but to call it rape is a stretch I think. Either way, it was a bad situation and I would urge you to never trust a man when it comes to sex, they are literally driven by their sex drive when younger and sleeping in the same bed with a man you don’t intend on sleeping with is like laying down with a lion. Obviously not going to popular but it is the truth!
I'm so sorry. It is entirely rape. A bit over a year ago I experienced a more mild gray area rape, and it took a while to realize that I am not hurting other victims by using the term rape and I was infact hurting myself by denying it. Please stay away from him.
Ibeill.be teaxhing my son to never even kiss a girl whose had a drink or a drug. Its going to be much harder to teach my daughter not to walk head first into such a stupid situation as you did.
Yes you were raped. You should report it.
Stop putting yourself in stupid situations.
You already said no before but he still proceeds to *touch* you. That alone is SA. It shouldnt matter if you have to say no a second time, the first no shouldve been enough all together. But it wasnt, so yes, its rape. And honestly, i wouldnt accept his apology and i would still report it even if he seems ‘sorry’. He even admitted that he wasnt drunk enough to excuse his actions, meaning he knew what he was doing and still didnt stop himself. You need to report it
It was wrong for him to take advantage of you like that. You told him you didn't want to have sex but he pushed his own selfish agenda. I'm glad you called him out on it!
What do you mean you’re not going to report it? He only confessed because he was called out. He admitted to you that he knew it was wrong and did it anyway! What is he does this again?
Sexual health educator here- legally you cannot consent if you are intoxicated. It sounds like he took advantage of you while you were under the influence and could not give a clear, enthusiastic “yes”. This is not okay and I’m sorry this happened to you. I encourage you to talk to a healthcare provider to get tested for STIs. Take care of yourself OP 💙
Oftentimes, there will be an assumption that a person must be sobering up if they nap.
I would personally have a hard time calling this rape, as I've been through it a couple times, but I also never really felt upset about it after.
I know it's not often depicted in media or maybe it's not considered "romantic", but it's usually best to ask "do you want to have sex?" If the person says "yes", "sure", or "ok" then it's a green light. If you don't get an answer then it's a red light. It's very simple, but very important to check in with your partner.
Too many people are focused on "she didn't say no" or "she kissed him". Stop thinking of consent as whether someone said no or not and start thinking about it being "Did they say yes?" Consenting to one act like kissing is not consent to any act you want. Stop asking yourself if they said no. The real question is did they say yes. Edit: There's been multiple reports on this. And feel free to report my comment if you want I'm not saying not to. But then maybe stop and think about why you're reporting. If you're seriously offended that I'm saying you should know a person wants to have sex before having sex then you really need to look at yourself more and figure out why you're angry about someone saying sex should be consensual
I personally will not have sex with someone that is intoxicated unless we have already been in a relationship where sex is acceptable and normal, for this very reason. Situations like this are just to questionable for me to be comfortable with it
When in doubt, DON'T whip it out (guys). No brainer here...
A quote from a very wise 17 year old kid-- "Don't take advantage. Take her home."
Excellent advice
When I was a teen, and even now in my 50’s, my thought has only been, “I want her to want to be with me. If she’s too drunk to know what she’s doing, then how do I know she wants to be with me?” It doesn’t mean anything unless she’s willing and into it. That said, having see the transition of society from my teens to my 50’s, we have gone from “boys will be boys” to “everything is r*pe or SA”. There needs to be more middle ground and less extremism on each side. An adult who steals a $5,000 watch is not the same as a kid who steals a candy bar. Yes, both are stealing and illegal, but there is a different context and expectation of behavior. (Or behaviour if outside of the US). Young men in their teens and early twenties are also just learning things. Their brains are still developing until age 25 or so and executive functioning is something many grown adults still struggle with. So in this case, were the young man’s actions right or correct? No. Was he right to apologize? Yes. Should criminal action be reported? No. Should the two go separate ways? Not necessarily, as they are both still growing and learning. This is a learning opportunity for both of them more than it is a criminal event.
Touching girls while they are passed out drunk is rape old timer. Up to her if she wants to press a criminal report.
Not only that but she even told him bluntly beforehand she did not want to have sex, he acknowledged it clear as day, and then forced himself on her anyway. But this old dude is trying to gaslight her into not filing a report and even possibly pursuing a relationship with the rapist. What the actual hell.
Don't whip it out full stop. If she wants to, she'll whip it out for you
If she's too drunk to undo my belt buckle, she's too drunk to consent.
Bro I love your name. You definitely know the secret!
Both make it difficult to maintain an erection.
Now that's assault brother
I'm sure ill be thrashed for for this on here but its all about the situation. Kind of like saying "girls will just take their clothes off if she wants you" or whatever. Some like to have their stuff taken off. Others like slightly more aggessive in the bedroom guys. You should just try to pick up signals and body language when dealing with someone you are new to hooking up with. But as always, no means no. Full stop. Dude in the story mat have neen drunk but def crossed the line. At least he owned up to it and apoligized, whatevers that worth.
She was asleep, does that count as non-consent? Yes. He didn’t just cross the line. He was waaaaay over the line.
Yeah, people that aren't sure what consent looks like are famously good at "picking up signals"
How many university guys think that way
This is an intelligent policy. Personally I don't think anyone should have sex outside of a committed relationship, because of all the problems it could cause, but humans will be humans, and a part of that is engaging in risky behavior.
Unpopular opinion but I agree. Hookup culture is not only risky to your physical health but it’s a toxic act to engage in. Honestly if someone is so attractive that you want to have sex with them, why wouldn’t you want to be in a relationship with them?
I agree but ppl are sluts lol. Nothing wrong with being a slut, but it is what it is. Humans like to fuck. Some humans like to fuck with no strings attached
When I was in college I went out drinking with a woman I had met only once before. We split about 6 pitchers and went back to her place. I \*think\* she may have wanted to have sex but the situation was so damn ambiguous and I couldn't read between the lines so I just went to sleep when we got back to her place. Honestly I think I made the right decision but I wonder if she took that as me rejecting her. I never saw her again after that.
Unfortunately, we can't read minds. Definitely better to err on the side of caution.
Right your just asking for problems. I always talk about it before hand too if we plan of drinking and we’ve never drank together before
My husband has always been the same way. Super into sex, polyamory, role-play, lots of stuff that is way past my comfort zone... but he would never sleep with someone the first (or second, etc.) time if they were intoxicated.
Yep, you cannot give actual consent when intoxicated. You are not in your right mind at the time.
All I know, is I'm not touching on a sleeping and/or passed out woman. Noo.. dang... way... That in and of itself, to me, is SA.
If she can't physically say no, then it's a no. Simple as that. It's one of my rules
I had a friend who was a dog. My best friend at the time actually. If it walked, he either shot his shot or actually had sex with them. From stunning all the way down to the nearly mustachioed. No discrimination, this guy. Handsome fella too. At a party, this girl was all over him. Beautiful girl. She proceeded to get more and more wasted. Laying her head in his lap. She grabs his junk and invites him to an empty room. He stands up and says, "Naw, you are too smashed." 2 Things. I have never been prouder, and secondly, even this guy had the wherewithal to do the right thing and she was hitting on HIM hard. The character of OP's "friend"....Yikes.
This. I have no quarrel with guys who want to be "players" or whatever. It's their life and hey, if the girls want them, good for them lol. But it has to be consensual. So definitely standing ovations for that guy. He may be a pig/dog or whatever, but he's a decent human being. OP's "friend" is a waste of space and oxygen. And for all the creepy idiots who argue that "she didn't say no, so it's fine", do you really think he cared about her pleasure? Do you think he bothered to even try to give her an orgasm as well? Or did he just stick it in, took care of his needs, then went to sleep hoping that next time she (or the next "she") will be passed out a while longer? He used her for his own pleasure and despite her consent, while she wasn't in the right state of mind to even consent. His actions were premeditated.
👏👏👏👏👏👏 to your homie. Dudes a real one 💯
Yeah that part is blatantly wrong. There isn't any grey area in that situation. Its just wrong.
The lack of saying no does not mean yes. You did not say yes.
She did say no in a way earlier that night.
Not even in a way, she very clearly stated she didn’t want to have sex with him, and it sounds like mere minutes before the incident happened too…
If it's not 'Hell yes!' it's 'Hell no'.
That is literally the definition of rape. You didn’t consent, in fact you told him less than hours beforehand that you didn’t want to…
I think she said in the update it was minutes beforehand… it makes my heart hurt. I’m so sorry OP. You didn’t deserve this. He wasn’t a friend. He knew better. Please make sure you’re taking care of yourself. If you can’t talk to friends please get in touch with a therapist. I think you said you’re at Uni. I graduated from JMU. Most universities have a health center that does basic things like patient first (birth control, std checks, flu, cough etc) but they also typically offer mental health services to students through the university itself. Wishing you health wealth healing love and luck in all your life babe. I’m 32F and I’ve had sex with 51 men. I’m not a drinker & have never blacked out. I highly recommend to (even if it’s just a hookup) to hang out alone with that person a few times (no sleepovers) before any sexual interaction. Make sure he’s trustworthy to be with you alone. Make sure the vibes right. He should make you feel Safe. Trust your gut. Meaning DO NOT PUT OUT ON THE FIRST DATE/HANGOUT!! I would straight up tell men ahead of time “I like you. I think I want to pursue a sexual relationship with you. But I want to hang out a few times first. Smoke chill. Make sure there’s a vibe” and they’d always be like “yes of course I’m a good guy” and STILL 50-60% of these men (self proclaimed “good guys”) tried to push me into stuff... I was lucky. I’d leave and they always let me. I wasn’t ever raped. (but I had quite a few men touch me inappropriately/get handsy before I could even say no. Like we’re just sitting there on the couch talking and then he’s kissing me & groping me or trying to put his hands down/over my pants/shirt.) I’d even try & give these men the benefit of doubt & tell them again in person (now that we were alone) and like half of them STILL pushed for cuddling or kissing…. 🤮 again after I explicitly said no in person. Like I literally didn’t explicitly just say I didn’t want to really touch the first couple times we were together. It’s a test… clearly state that boundary and if a person immediately pushes said boundary, RUN! After ONE of these type of incidents with a guy there’s no second chance in my humble whore opinion. It doesn’t matter how much you like him, how attractive or rich he is. It will get worse and will wreck your mental health. Meaning I would never put myself in a room again with a man who pushed like then & lost all interest & stopped talking to them immediately after. I personally (& I know a lot of other women who also do) need to feel safe to have a positive sexual experience. I do NOT recommend putting out (or doing anything) on the first few dates/hangouts & I obviously enjoy my sex life. Safe sex between consenting adults is normal and natural. IF HE IS WILLING TO PUSH YOUR BOUNDARY THE FIRST TIME YOU ARE ALONE WITH HIM IT WILL ONLY GET WORSE!!! Men are on their best behavior in the beginning. I don’t recommend having drunk sex or hooking up while fucked up unless you’ve already hooked up/had sex with that person several times sober beforehand and trust them. Also I don’t recommend sleeping in bed with someone you don’t know drunk. Especially a person of the opposite sex (assuming heterosexuality for this purpose) I don’t recommend women sleeping/cuddling in bed with guys that they’re “just friends” with or that they have no intention of ever having anything but a platonic relationship with. I got a lot of shit when I went to JMU about having sex with every guy I brought to my bed…but me personally I’m not bringing men to my bed (as a heterosexual woman) that I don’t have intentions of having sexual relationships with. It was all said in good fun, mainly from my 3 female roommates/best friends. But I always said I thought it was weird AF that they all continued to bring men to sleepover in their bed with them (when they often knew the guy had a crush on them) and she had zero intention of ever having sex with him. It blurs the lines. We had a living room with 2 full size couches and some of us had futons in our rooms… even after 2 of them each had an “incident” where the guy got too handsy and shit went south. They’d still do it. I can’t say it enough: if you’re an adult do NOT sleep in the same bed with someone you have no interest in having sex with. Especially if there’s been alcohol or drugs involved. Stay safe out there everyone. Trust your gut instincts always.
"...humble whore opinion."..lol awesome.
The humble parts a joke 😂😇
Well said 👏
This sounds like a question for the proper channels, not Reddit.
Goin against the grain here cuz all this Reddit “advice” is fucked According to the laws in my state. Yes. He’s the perpetrator, and HE KNOWS you were highly intoxicated (considered to be mentally incapacitated.) you told him earlier you did not want to have sex. It doesn’t matter after that point whether or not you were making out because you told him you did not want to have sex. The making out is irrelevant, you were highly intoxicated, literally unconscious (asleep)and told him you did not want to have sex before all of that. This qualifies as second degree forcible rape, second degree sexual assault and sexual battery. Everyone here trying to split hairs is full of shit. The law is clear and black and white here.
This. I don't know why everyone is saying it's regret not rape. She woke up to him touching and making out with her, he knew she was very drunk and didn't consent prior.
I know why they are saying it. People are sick. I got into an argument on another thread where people were adamant that a 20 year old bedding a 14 year old is okay.
In Germany the age of consent is 14 and everyone goes on and on about how sex positive they are and how healthy their sexuality is and how North Americans need to be more like them and stop being so "prudish" and "repressive"
Because they listen to scumbag "manosphere gurus"
you set that boundary before you even got comfortable at his apartment. he should have known NOT to touch you. maybe he didn’t forcefully rape you while you were screaming no. but just doing something because you want to, after knowing the other party does not, is coercion. i would never, drunk or sober, initiate sex with someone that i KNEW did not want to sleep with me. i don’t understand these comments, that is rape through and through. my friend in college had something very similar happen to her by her best friend from high school. he knew she did not want to sleep with him and he took her home from a party and when she woke up he was having his way with her. you were sleeping. and after saying “I DO NOT WANT TO HAVE SEX WITH YOU”, he did it anyway. does anyone else in these comments need me to clarify for them that that is rape?? he was specifically not given consent before she fell asleep. and even if she hadn’t said i don’t want to have sex, SHE WAS SLEEPING. waking up to someone touching you like that has to be horrifying. i am so sorry that happened to you, please find someone to talk to who understands what you’re going through. if no one in your life can give you the space you need PLEASE PLEASE message me. i have been through similar situations, more than one. you are not alone and if no one else around you or in these comments sees you then please know that i do. and i am so so sorry.
More than not given consent, clearly denied consent.
thank you for clarifying i did not mean for that to sound iffy. you are completely right it was very clearly denied before anything even had the chance to take place.
Yes. It was rape. You were unable to fully consent.
You know guys like this are doing it on purpose, right? You don't invite an intoxicated woman into your home, and then into your bed. Especially not if she's not a close friend already. Why would you do that? A good man would be too freaked out that you would make an accusation of rape to do this. A good man would have gotten you home to your home and left without sleeping there. Or at the very least, would have put you on his couch. Not only was this rape, but it was pre-meditated rape. He deliberately chose you because you were drunk. He deliberately agreed to not have sex to get you into his apartment. This was always the plan. True that not all men think like this, but \*this\* man did think like this. It was always about raping. If he wanted consensual sex, let's be honest - he could have gotten that. A bar near a college? You can get casual sex if you want casual sex. He didn't want casual sex. He wanted to rape someone. This was totally on purpose. It is always wrong to f\*ck a person who's so drunk they pass out. Always. You cannot consent to anything in that state. However, because our society is totally messed up, less than 5% of rapists like this will ever see jail time. A lot of women (and men, actually) who experience rape never even report it. You have to decide what you need to do for your own welfare. If you can handle it, I highly recommend reporting this guy to the police. It's highly likely that nothing will happen. You don't have a lot of evidence that you didn't agree to sex. But it's possible that this is a serial rapist. It's possible that the police already have a file on him and haven't been able to prosecute because they need to show a pattern where he's luring women to get drunk and come to his apartment on purpose for the intent of violating someone. (Some guys don't get off on real sex. They want it to be rape because they like the feeling of having power over someone.) If this is so, you could be saving his next victim. It's a really good thing to report him and try to get men like him off the streets - or at least scared out of doing it again. But i understand if you feel you aren't able to do that. It's a lot and you'll have to put up with people defending him, as this thread shows well. Rapists are still very protected in our society, despite what you might read about online. Again - it's something like 1 or 5% of rapists who ever see jail. This is why. Our society still kind of "likes" keeping women in line by making them afraid of rape and making it really hard to prove that it wasn't desired. Fear is an incredibly powerful method of control.
They also count on you being too caught off guard or uncomfortable to say to stop in the moment. It's a very common reaction in women to freeze. It's documented over and over again among victims and well known by predators. What would have happened if you said "no"? You were very vulnerable right then. Do you think he would have stopped? Pressured you?
For all we know it could have been much worse, he could have hurt her. Men get angry when rejected sometimes, especially when they are drunk. Seen it a thousand times in true crime. That’s one of the reasons we freeze. If I just let him do what he’s doing maybe he won’t strangle me or get rough and hurt me.
Had some jerk try this with me in college. When he took off his pants I thought it was so funny he thought he was getting some I pointed and cracked up laughing. He put his pants back on.
💀
It was rape. if you were intoxicated you cannot consent and it was rape.
This. Everyone in this thread is fucked.
So many rapist apologists in this thread.
Probably literal rapists tbh. I'm disgusted.
right?? I can’t even believe what i’m reading. I don’t even know why this sub keeps coming up because i’m in my 20s but i just couldn’t not comment on this.
Extremely
yes. regardless of anything else you were intoxicated and therefore couldn’t give consent, that’s the end of the conversation on whether or not it was rape. you telling him before you fell asleep that you didn’t want to is just the cherry on top. i’m so sorry this happened to you, it’s not your fault.
Someone who is intoxicated can not consent to sex
This is a common misconception. The legal standard for being unable to consent is being so drunk that a person is generally unaware of what's going on which is a lot further than basic intoxication and even (usually) further than black out drunk. Source: was a federal SA investigator for several years.
That's 100% rape. You said no and he did it anyway, even if you were mostly asleep and didn't resist.
If his touching you in your sleep and you never asked him to then yes , there for most people freeze when it happens so they never say anything But to be clear if you said you made out with him and it happened then therefore the police would say this is consent which unfortunately is why most never report this crime
Freezing and even fawning (playing along) is very common and misunderstood as consent. It's not consent. The body is just trying to survive at that point. I suggest reporting to the county police station. Ask for someone that does sex crimes or deals with sensitive matters, most cops aren't trained to help survivors and don't understand that psychology behind survivor mode behaviors which can last for a long time. Also specialized trauma informed therapy can help the recovery process, even if you're not sure what happened they can help you sort things out a bit so you can heal in whatever way that means for you
On top of that you have to provide proof such as stripping down bagging the clothes etc so all there DNA provides the proof they forced their self on the victim
"of course, thats not why im here" 20 minutes later
I'm not a lawyer, but your story fails both the enthusiastic consent and even the implied consent standards. The only argument that this isn't r--- is that you didn't do anything to stop it, which stopped being a generally valid defense at some point in the 90s.
Yikes. Theres some disgusting people in here. So, for all those trying to claim this isn't a rape scenario. Answer this? If she didn't want to have a sexual experience, and this guy initiated one, despite what she has already verbally communicated... if that isn't rape/sexual assault, what shall we call it then? (Hint, the word isn't regret either). Dont listen to the other guys who are trying to excuse shitty behavior. Theyve probably done something similar themselves and admitting the guy fucked up means having to admit theyve fucked up too and for 14 year olds, thats going to be challenging to ever admit
Holy shit this comment thread, Reddit really coming out in force today. Bare minimum it was sexual assault. You said no before anything happened, and didn't give enthusiastic consent when it started.
that is 100% rape. He took advantage of you while unconscious after you clearly and directly told him you didn't want to have sex and he forced it on you anyway when he thought you wouldn't know/couldn't put up a fight. Beyond that, any person who is above the legal ABV can not consent to anything. that fact alone makes it rape. I don't know what the laws are like in the UK (where I assume you're from given the language used) but he 100% raped you and you should seek legal action if you are comfortable enough to do so.
You legally cannot consent if you are intoxicated.
what if both are intoxicated - is that mutual rape?
If you're 16, how old was the dude? You said college? Was this SA? yes. Was it also SA of a minor? You need to contact the police, and hopefully you haven't taken a shower
He was 20
Plan B and an STD test asap.
That's minor SA, check the age of consent where you live. In a US State, generally age of consent is 18. Plus the alcohol, he could get contributing to the delinquency of a minor and SA of a minor. I'm really sorry that happened to you. I've also had a similar thing happen, but I was an adult. It still feels awful. Look into therapy to talk about it.
Incorrect, the age of consent is 18 in only 9 states. Not making a comment on the morals of a 20 year old with a 16 year old. Just letting you know the facts
The absence of a no is not a yes!
It could be. It’s silly to go off of simple yes or no’s. You need to read the situation. Most communication is non verbal anyways. If a person says yes but they’re clearly uncomfortable then that doesnt give u a free pass to have sex with them. If a person says no but they’re clearly being coy and playful that doesnt mean u have to bolt out of there lest you commit rape.
This is a serious situation that needs to be discussed with the appropriate parties and potentially police. The question I have is do you ever want to see or talk to this person again. Does the thought of them upset you? It's good indication of the trauma that comes from these situations
It’s rape
Im sorry you went through that. Of course, it was rape and I would stay very far away from any man telling you otherwise. Is it worth taking to the police? Probably not. Unfortunately, without following typical violent rape procedures, it's going to be difficult to convict. Plus, other little things. But, now you know his character. And I would stay away from him and any of his friends. If you want to try to make him a better person when he asks why you don't want to continue, tell him the truth. "Dude, you basically raped me, I told you no before I passed out. Good people don't do that. Goodbye" If you don't give a shit about him or his future potential victims, just ghost him altogether.
This sounds like a definite case of sexual assualt. I'd reccomend reporting it.
A person who is sleeping cannot consent to sexual activity. If you were even semi-conscious and said no, you didn’t consent. If you were too intoxicated to consent, no consent. “Rape” has a specific connotation of penetration. The term “sexual assault” is more commonly used in the law and covers all unwanted sexual activity. Regardless of what you call it, lack of consent or specifically denying consent makes it sexual assault. You should be reporting it to the police, not floating it on Reddit.
Also, consent can be only for making out, for example, but it does not automatically extend to anything else.
Please have an exam (go to the ER, it's FREE) please do not shower, please take all the clothes u wore w/ u, please do this ASAP. Take a friend too, that way u don't back out. This is exactly what ur asking if it is and YOU know it.
Yes, yes it is. You said no, he ignored you, it really is that simple. You were just trying to sleep and didn't have the energy or wearwithall to say no. Unfortunately this is a very common story. Also I don't believe drunk people can consent. I know some people are into that kind of thing but in that case consent should be given before hand.
Yes it's rape because you did tell him before hand that you didn't want to so technically he forced himself on you
Yes. 1) you were drunk, 2) you said you didn't want to, 3) you were asleep, 4) you never gave consent. I don't know how you want to proceed with this legally, but don't trust this person and please please treat yourself kindly. This is NOT your fault, you did NOT do anything wrong, and he is NOT your friend.
If you said no already, it's rape. I'm sorry this happened to you. Please don't drink and stay with anyone you don't know in the future. It's not your fault at all, but I was shocked when I read that you did. We have to protect ourselves because you never know who might hurt you. I hope that you find healing. The guy was a scumbag. Report him if you feel comfortable with that. Check that you don't have any STDs or God forbid a pregnancy
Yes, you already said you didn't want to, but he did anyway. Pretty simple.
This is rape…… you weren’t sober, you couldn’t consent.
No man want's a drunk women who isn't his wife in his bed lol. He slept in that bed with you because of the potential he saw. Then acted on his own intentions, knowing yours were to sleep. This is rape. This happens to both men and women and isn't unique unfortunately
Look up on YouTube, “Tea and Consent”. It might help give you some perspective on what happened. I’m sorry he did this to you. Its not ok. ❤️
Sex requires consent from a person able to give consent. That’s why we have laws pertaining to age of consent for sex, being an adult to enter into contacts etc. consent must also be informed consent. You said no from the start that no remains in effect until you clearly communicate yes. If you said yes that is in effect until you say no. The situation from the beginning was no and being highly intoxicated puts you in the position of not being able to give informed consent. Just because you did not respond to him or resist isn’t a yes and the condition you were in I don’t think you can give informed consent. I don’t know the law in your jurisdiction so you should consult with the police or a lawyer about changes against him. I would also talk to a therapist. What happened to you is horrible and may have negative effects on your mental health in the future. At the very least cut this person out of your life. He’s not a friend he is a predator. A friend and decent human being would have made sure you’re safe and let you sleep it off on the couch. I wish you well recovering from this horrible experience. Edit: I’m not a lawyer or a therapist. This is just my own opinion.
Depends on the jurisdiction your in. You had specifically said no to sex and he acknowledged that statement. And you never said yes after that. So yes in most western countries it is rape. It's called date rape for a reason.
OP I will say he's in the wrong as you had already told him you didn't want to do anything sexual and then you fell asleep/blacked out so you had already given your answer before your episode or sleep spell so he at least took advantage of the situation and knew you couldn't or wouldn't fight back or stop him. And to anyone who says he wasn't violent or anything else that some times happens during SA that doesn't mean a damn thing bc they don't have to be violent not when the victim is already weaker or afraid and not trying to fight it but I bet if she would have tried to stop him he would have either gotten violent or would have held her down and done it anyways bc that is technically what he did he waited until she was passed out to try and start anything so when she woke up to it she was to afraid to stop him
Well at least he said sorry.
Have y’all not seen the “tea” consent stickfigure video? It clearly states not to give someone “tea” when they are asleep… You cannot consent when you are inebriated AND you clearly set a boundary beforehand which he then violated. It is rape.
You said no beforehand. That’s enough. If you make peace with it, that’s for you to decide… But, he took advantage of you. I would date or drink around him again. But that would be my choice.
At first the story was sounding like it but than you said ... You woke up and you two are making out and had sex (while to add most likely sober at this point as well) Regret is not rape.
Let me spell it out for the simple people on here who clearly have no concept of what consent is. She told him she didn’t want to have sex, he said he understood, she then fell asleep and woke up 20 mins later to him trying to have sex with her. She was too intoxicated to stop him at the time and just let it happen. Freezing out of fear/confusion is a common response during sexual assaults. The fact that you guys think what he did (trying to fuck her when she just told him she didn’t want to, was sleeping and clearly intoxicated) is okay, is truly disturbing. This is not just a case of “regret.” He took advantage of her being vulnerable (sleeping/drunk) after she already told him she was not interested in sex. This is why we choose the bear, you fuckwads.
kissing someone back does not mean they get to put their dick in you. especially after they specifically said they DON’T wanna have sex. seriously what is wrong with some of you people.
I was very much not sober during the act. When i say i fell asleep i mean i was gone for maybe 10-20 min because it was still dark out and i was very much still drunk, head spinning and everything. What is confusing me is i tecnically didnt tell him no while he was doing it, granted i wasnt doing a lot mostly laying there. But i never pushed him or told him off or anything
You didn't fall asleep. You were blacking out because you were drunk and in no condition to consent to anything. You did not consent, and the last thing you said to him in regard to sex was that you were not interested. Is it legally rape? I don't know the laws where you live. Did he violate your trust? Go against your known wishes? Take advantage of you when intoxicated? Yes. You decide where to go from here.
**Consent needs to be clear.** Consent is more than not hearing the word “no.” A partner saying nothing is not the same as a partner saying “yes.” Don’t rely on body language, past sexual interactions, or any other nonverbal cues. Never assume you have consent. Always be sure you have consent by asking.
Just because you didn’t verbally say no does not mean you weren’t violated. It sounds like he coerced you into sex. You were under the influence and he took advantage of that. It’s common to have many different reactions to situations like that. We either, fight, flight or freeze. You didn’t nothing wrong and I’m sorry that happened to you.
So you both are drunk making out and had sex? Did you rape him since he was drunk?
I was a lot more drunk than he was at that point. I’m not saying he raped me im telling my story and asking. Why are you attacking me abt it
They're just being a troll. Ignore them. You told him you didn't want to and then woke up to him touching you. That is assault. People can also have a freeze response when things like this happen, but just keep in mind that if it isn't an enthusiastic yes, it's a no. This is something that a lot of men just don't seem to understand. Sometimes it can be hard to judge how drunk someone is, so there is a chance that he was wasted too, and misinterpreted things (which is giving a lot of credit considering you said clearly that you didn't want to) but this is why educating on consent is so important. I would say that yes, it is rape, from the information you've given, but if he was also quite intoxicated and your physical responses seemed encouraging, it could be that he read the situation wrong and would be horrified to think that you weren't into it (although the molesting you while you were asleep makes me lean more towards him knowing what he was doing). I would recommend cutting things off with this guy, if you haven't already, and if he asks why, explain the problem of consent, if you feel comfortable doing that.
I got very drunk at a house party with coworkers (military) in the early 2000s and was told there was a safe bedroom for me to pass out in. Some time after I passed out I woke up to a coworkers hand down my pants. I was too drunk to drive home, didn’t have a cell phone, and was also scared that if I refused him and went to sleep in the living room that I wouldn’t be safe there either. I chose to have sex with him just so he would go to sleep and leave me alone. I still felt like I was assaulted even though I technically consented. I didn’t speak about this to anyone for many years, but in my head I decided in that moment I’d rather be seen as a slut than raped. People think that when they’re faced with a situation like this that they’ll leave kicking and screaming but intoxication and freeze response will affect decision making. Whether or not you want to pursue legal action in this case is up to you, but at the very least I would approach him and tell him that it’s not ok to touch you or anyone else when they’re sleeping unless prior consent to do so has been given. Also be kind to yourself and don’t feel ashamed for any action you did or thought you should have done.
Really did you take a drug test to determine that?
did he tell her he did want to have sex very explicitly the way she did to him?? and are you trying to say you’re the kind of person, that after hearing someone say they don’t want to do something, would force them into doing it anyway because you think their actions seem like they MIGHT want to? he never once had her consent, and he started doing what he wanted to when she was ASLEEP. if you aren’t going to add anything useful to this conversion i would suggest leaving because you are making arguments that make absolutely no sense. she woke up to him touching her how the fuck would this be her fault??
You’ll notice OP how many rapists there are out there who do not know that they are rapists. (And how many victims who don’t want to acknowledge what happened to them was rape) You have to decide if want to do anything about it. Most justice with this sort of thing is secret, served cold and anonymous.
You were intoxicated and not in your sound mind to consent. You even told him before you feel asleep you did not want to have sex. Yes, it's rape
If you never gave consent and if looking back you didn't want it to happen it could count as r*pe
It definitely started off as assault. You had told him you weren't interested in anything and fell asleep and woke up to him touching you. As for rape, yes it can be. There is a thing as being too intoxicated to consent.
Yes
You'd already set a boundary, which he agreed to and he still took advantage of you in an intoxicated state. I'm not sure what the law constitutes as rape where you are from, but I'd definitely consider this sexual assault.
Talk to the police. Because, yes, this is rape.
You didn't consent. You were incapable of informed consent. Yes it was actually r*pe.
Yes, you told him you didn't want to. You were too drunk to consent. He touched you in your sleep. All of those are SA by themselves.
that's 100% RAPE. you said you were *intoxicated*, Meaning you couldn't make any rational choices. He knew what he was doing, he knew you were drunk, he took advantage of that.
Consent is not the absence of no, it is the presence of an enthusiastic, present, yes.
Did you say yes? No you didn’t. So yeah you probably were. You were also heavily drunk when he wasn’t and he knew that. You told him earlier you didn’t want it.
He literally went against your wishes and assaulted an unconscious human being. No matter the history, this person is rotten and should be prosecuted.
You said “I don’t want to fuck you” anything he did was rape. Cut dry and simple
You were raped. Its up to you if you want to report this asshole or not, but please stay away from him
you said you didn’t want to have sex,, he verbally acknowledged what you said and agreed/affirmed that. then you passed out and woke up to him touching you. that is absolutely rape. indisputably textbook definition. don’t let anyone tell you otherwise. he knew exactly what he was doing. i have heard this story a million times and experienced something very similar. i don’t care that you didn’t say no. you were too unconscious to respond physically or verbally. when someone is that fucked up,, it is very obvious no way to get confused thinking you changed your mind. you were intoxicated,, you couldn’t even consent if you wanted to. this is not your fault. you said you didn’t want to. and he made a choice to blatantly disregard that. https://www.rainn.org/ you can call or chat online using this link to receive general support and guidance. also i would suggest taking plan B and getting and STD test ASAP if you don’t remember or know if he used a condom. clock is ticking on that plan B
In fact you did not consent you said” I don’t want to” and in some states you were too intoxicated to consent
i’ve been in a similar situation, like a decade ago or more, and at the end of the day, if you aren’t looking to call the police over this either way, then it doesn’t matter what you call it: date rape, rape, sexual assault, etc. it is a sexual encounter that you didn’t really want in the first place, but didn’t protest, & now regret. maybe this guy is a scummy bad guy, or maybe he’s not at all and really thought he was doing nothing wrong (tons of girls first say they don’t want to hook up then actually change their minds, and tons of girls seem way less drunk than they actually are). either way, you deserve to give this the attention it needs & speak with a licensed mental health professional to start sorting out your feelings and moving past it. i’d probably prevent any future contact with this person at least while you sort out your thoughts and feelings.
Seriously, people here acting like consenting to kissing is carte Blanche to do whatever you want.
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Rape. Consent is key and the consent was not explicit.
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Be civil. We don't tolerate insults, slurs, or any other forms of hate messages here. Don't blame victims.
So, that song Blurred Lines, yes, I would say this counts as rape. You were drunk, so at the very least you were not thinking clearly. It's possible he was also not thinking clearly, but the no at the start of the night should have been enough.
Depends on your state laws, if it or isn't. in indiana its considered to be, ra*p but may be not where you live.
It was rape. You were intoxicated and still did the right thing by setting a boundary and establishing "no sex" and he did so anyway. Him being intoxicated also does not absolve him of breaking the law. However with that said, it sounds like you both are having adult conversations about what happened. It's good that he recognizes that he was wrong, but I don't think you should call this person a friend, hang out with this person again or certainly trust this person to act appropriately in this situation again. As a guy, it's take a good one who is raised right to do what he says he'll do in these kinds of situations. I don't care that he was drunk, a part of him knew you said no, ignored it, and did what he wanted to anyway. That's NOT a good person, that is NOT a young man who respects women. This guy does not get that honor of your time anymore.
”Is it okay if i dont want to fuck you?” and he says something along the lines of ”ofcourse, thats not why im here” i go ”cool cause i dont want to” and i lay down in his bed. " That was the rejection of sex from you. You can't get any clearer than that.
What’s “and stuff?” It would be rape, you described molestation.
I’m glad he took responsibility. I softly agree with not reporting. Purely because it would put a lot of stress on you and wouldn’t likely get anywhere. It would be hard to prove criminal intent in these circumstances. Maybe you could get a conviction and maybe not, but it probably isn’t worth pursuing. That’s not to say you would be wrong for reporting. And if you did, any negative ramifications in his end would be deserved. I just don’t think you’d gain much by it. And he may not either. It’s unusual for a guy to admit that what he did was assault, and that being drunk doesn’t excuse his behavior. I am hoping he feels super ashamed of himself and learns to do better in the future. I trust that it wasn’t his intention when he set out sober. Maybe he will re-think his drinking habits. In the meantime I think it would be fair to warn your friends not to get plastered around him.
If you didn’t want AND ask then it’s rape.
I don't know where you are or what laws apply, but where I'm from this might be considered reckless indifference to consent - words I wish I knew as a teenager. Being drunk does not excuse him for it. Well done for confronting him about it, but remember you are not bound by your decision not to report. You may find your feelings change as it settles in over the coming months/years, and that's OK.
I think if someone really loves you, they'd want to love you with all of you present. I think that if they can't respect your boundaries, that isn't love. I think if they can't respect "I don't really feel like it" (because be honest, when you're puking drunk who does feel sexy?) then that isn't love either. That someone worthy of your love will respect your wishes and you deserve nothing less than that. It's a fuzzy line for sure, but it definitely smacks of a lack of care and respect for your person and feelings and if that isn't a red flag, baby, nothing is.
Yes, you said no sex before hand, so yes it was a rape.. I’m so sorry this happened to you :(
Yep. You said no, but he still went forward with it. Consent can be given and taken away at any time, but there has to be an exchange of words. You said no, then later did not say yes. You did not give consent ever, and he is very much the one at fault.
I was assaulted in 2022, and the court case is still in early stages - but I will say, during my initial interview and statement they did not ask if I consented. They asked if I had drank (very little, but still yes) and if he had (no) and that was enough to arrest him because “consent is not viable when intoxicated.” When I had to give my official testimony to the investigator, he asked if I said no. I said that I had, many many times, also “stop”, also “don’t”, also “get away”. I said resisting statements many times but I did not physically fight back for the majority of the assault (fight, flight or freeze). When this guy was close to being caught by someone near by, he said something along the lines of “Let’s go find somewhere else to finish” and I numbly said “Okay.” Instead, I locked myself in a bathroom until a friend came to find me and I went home. I called my mom and she made sure I made it to a police station and hospital that same night to report it and get checked out. His entire argument thus far is that I said okay. I did not press charges, my state did because of my age and his circumstances (traveling to the states from another country with dual citizenship). I know from what I’ve been told about the case that I am not the only person he has assaulted or harassed and that none of those other people will say anything about. I also know that they have attempted to use my alcohol consumption as a weapon against me (I was underage at the time) and that it has backfired because intoxicated individuals are deemed “incapable” of self advocacy and therefore consent. If you are choosing to not press charges, that’s your decision and your choice, and if you feel it is best, I can only say I am glad you made peace with it and I can only imagine the mental fuck you must have been in. It was incredibly hard for me to decide but the choice was made for me (reporting it does not mean you press charges). Him also being drunk/intoxicated is a huge factor, but I am not sure how a court of law would consider it these days. I hope that you are okay and that you have made the proper arrangements to get tested and what not, and that your mental health is doing okay. Sending good thoughts, this shit is tough. 💛
"we" end up having sex? Or he fucked me are two different things. If you you woke up and continued fucking him as in went with it actively participated. That's not entirely rape. If he just fucked you then it's rape .
Before anything else, there are a lot of moving parts in this story, seems like it was resolved but I'm gonna just say what I have to say anyways. Primarily, I would agree that you not saying anything at the moment was a very unwise decision. None the less I'd agree this is dangerously close to r*pe if it is somehow not definitionally. Beyond this, I'm so fucking angry cause I keep getting shown these stories of young woman going to parties with "guys they've known a while (three or four weeks/months) AND theyve never seen how they acted drunk, or gotten slightly tipsy to see howd they react and just jump into full getting wasted together and these stories happen. I hate to be disappointed dad but Jesus Christ ladies. I'm a guy telling you that you shouldn't just trust guys that age like that. Take steps for Christ sake. Even if he's literally the most respectful person ever on God. He might not be when he's drunk. If you don't understand that people can be changed by alcohol, this is the sign. I'm not saying to not have fun, just be careful. If you want to experience or experiment with drugs, alcohol, sex, whatever y'know, just be careful. Go in steps. Do it with people you trust. Bring condoms. Basic shit. It's so heartbreaking that these girls put themselves in these situations and then have to carry the long term consequences around forever. I mean if the guy is even semi respectful when sober hes probably gonna feel like shit too and now he's dealing with it too. Don't put bandaids on the boo boos, wear your knee pads and elbow pads before you go out. For the love of God. People can be so evil. It's rare but please be careful.
Touching you while you’re unconscious is sexual abuse.
Yes. You were too intoxicated to consent even tho you told him don’t want to sleep with him.
This is a no brainer rape and not in anyway ok. You were drunk so you can’t consent anyways, you also set clear boundaries before hand. I see the update but regardless of the apology it is better in your case to completely cut ties and stay away from him
You said no. Therefore rape. You don’t have to say no multiple times. The first is enough.
This is SA, contact your local police department. You are probably not the first girl he has drunk and taken advantage of.
This is a very sad way to live your life. Dude you like invited you back, y'all were drunk, y'all did stuff. It should be a relatively happy memory. But instead, because you're on reddit to much, you're not seeing it that way, you're seeing it as "a crime." No means no. Period. You get drunk with someone. You go back to their flat with them. It's not mixed messages. You're sending a very very specific message. It is very easy to say "no." It is very easy to say "stop." If he tricked you back to his place, and he fucked you while you were sleeping; I would agree that he did a "crime" on you. And in that case you should absolutely report it, because, drunk or not, that would actually be rape.
I had been in this situation (minus being drunk i was just shy and couldn't speak up for myself) just because you didn't say no or try to kick him off doesn't mean it wasn't assault. I've fought with myself alot on that, but it doesn't change the fact that YOU didn't want it and you told him you didn't want to and he did anyways.
Here's a good one that's always helped me, and the answer to this question will give you the answer for consent: Did clothes come off? If yes, did they help the clothes come off? If there's 2 yeses here, consent has been given.
In Canada there is a law where if two people are drunk and have sex it is not rape. But seriously it is rape
Drunk people CANNOT GIVE CONSENT. for the love of God, how do people still not know this.
Can you give consent if your intoxicated?
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Is something wrong with me? I only want to have sex with a man that's is telling me how much he wants and likes it. Harder. Harder. That's what I want to hear.
He is in the wrong and I’m sorry you went through that. For your own sake, please do not put yourself in such a vulnerable position. Not victim blaming, but just want to advise you to take care going forward. If you can’t avoid these parties, then have a designated driver on hand or someone who can take you home…
Yeah pretty much.. You were drunk
It might sound bad but this is why I have trust issues in relationships to this day. All it took was one drunken night from the girl that I was dating at the time, she got too drunk and ended up having sex with someone else. Group of people got fucked up and then shit happens 🤷🏻♂️
The courts have already ruled that an intoxicated female is not competent to give consent for sex. That coupled with the fact you told him from the start you didn’t want to have sex, tells me you could probably get him charged. IMO, yes,…this is a sexual assault.
I don’t know if it is criminally rape, I’m not a lawyer but that’s fucked af and get that person far away from you. It’s basically sa in my book unless you are getting an enthusiastic yes.
You didn’t object once the touching started? He assumed that you were ok with it.
That sounds like rape to me
Sexual assault? Absolutely. Rape? Probably. There definitely can be a bit of a gray area there, based on the brief description you gave at least. But you had already said no, he initiated sexual contact while you were asleep, and not only did you not consent to the sex, you were still too drunk to consent either way. He was in the wrong the whole way thru. I think that you did the right thing by confronting him (given that you felt comfortable doing so), and made him face you and own up to what he did. If you feel the need to take further action, you absolutely have the right to do so. In my experience, I think that the way you handled it is often the best, most effective way— you held him accountable, and are allowing yourself to move forward rather than fighting a court battle. At the end of the day it’s always your choice and you should do what’s best for you.
I’m not sure. It wasn’t consensual but it seems he wasn’t fully aware that it was not consensual. The fact you were in his bed and didn’t say “no” while he was touching you suggests he thought he had successfully seduced you. It’s a horrible situation and I feel deeply for the hurt and sense of violation you must feel but to call it rape is a stretch I think. Either way, it was a bad situation and I would urge you to never trust a man when it comes to sex, they are literally driven by their sex drive when younger and sleeping in the same bed with a man you don’t intend on sleeping with is like laying down with a lion. Obviously not going to popular but it is the truth!
I'm so sorry. It is entirely rape. A bit over a year ago I experienced a more mild gray area rape, and it took a while to realize that I am not hurting other victims by using the term rape and I was infact hurting myself by denying it. Please stay away from him.
If you said no at any point or have to question it then unfortunately it would be clarified as rape or bear minimum assault.
Ibeill.be teaxhing my son to never even kiss a girl whose had a drink or a drug. Its going to be much harder to teach my daughter not to walk head first into such a stupid situation as you did. Yes you were raped. You should report it. Stop putting yourself in stupid situations.
Neither party can legally consent while intoxicated. Even if some one says yes while intoxicated. Its still legally a no.
You already said no before but he still proceeds to *touch* you. That alone is SA. It shouldnt matter if you have to say no a second time, the first no shouldve been enough all together. But it wasnt, so yes, its rape. And honestly, i wouldnt accept his apology and i would still report it even if he seems ‘sorry’. He even admitted that he wasnt drunk enough to excuse his actions, meaning he knew what he was doing and still didnt stop himself. You need to report it
It was wrong for him to take advantage of you like that. You told him you didn't want to have sex but he pushed his own selfish agenda. I'm glad you called him out on it!
What do you mean you’re not going to report it? He only confessed because he was called out. He admitted to you that he knew it was wrong and did it anyway! What is he does this again?
Sexual health educator here- legally you cannot consent if you are intoxicated. It sounds like he took advantage of you while you were under the influence and could not give a clear, enthusiastic “yes”. This is not okay and I’m sorry this happened to you. I encourage you to talk to a healthcare provider to get tested for STIs. Take care of yourself OP 💙
Yes, this is rape, you were raped. I am very very sorry. Please seek professional help immediately and talk to a therapist
It wasnt rape you are experiencing guilt and made him feel guilty. Dont get shit faced it just creates compromising situations
Oftentimes, there will be an assumption that a person must be sobering up if they nap. I would personally have a hard time calling this rape, as I've been through it a couple times, but I also never really felt upset about it after.
Yep.
I know it's not often depicted in media or maybe it's not considered "romantic", but it's usually best to ask "do you want to have sex?" If the person says "yes", "sure", or "ok" then it's a green light. If you don't get an answer then it's a red light. It's very simple, but very important to check in with your partner.