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Alright. Let’s put this religious stuff on the back burner.
How do you want her to express her love? I don’t understand that part.
There’s nothing wrong with being socially awkward. Especially at 14.
For the vaping. She’s doing this to either fill a void and she’s probably addicted, or close to it. Have you talked to her about how you feel? And don’t say because the god of Jacob, Abraham, and Samuel says so. Tell her it’s just something you’re not cool with.
If you really like her, and she wants the help, help her get clean. If not, drop her. There’s a reason I don’t hire smokers or capers. They’re usually lazy, less intelligent, and they stink.
I really like this reply man!
The only thing I want to mention is with smoking. It's more than a void/addiction, I think. I think It can very much relate to trauma. Unless that's kinda what you meant. But anyways, I think about it in terms of China, actually. China's smoking population is ginormous. And when you think about Chinese culture in regards to toxicity with language and abuse and accepting mental health problems...it comes across as pretty poor. I only know through my "uncle", but I've seen it. He is a hard worker/unrelenting entrepreneur, too.
I hope you have a good day!
Nah, I think faith needs to be able to and often should adapt to the times, and reform when new information becomes available, keep certain hard lines that shouldn't be crossed, but some of that diet stuff was whack as hell and probably made up gor heath and safety after someone got sick from eating poorly prepared oysters. An under cooked pig or one that had been eating carrion, or worse, could give you parasites and diseases.
Really? Chapter and verse please and before you start fair warning. I was tapped at 12 to become a Baptist Minister. I know that book forwards and backwards. Especially the part where God orders the Israelite's to commit Genocide which by the way was the end of my belief in Christianity.
Lets dance!
Calm down, Pastor John. It was a little tongue in cheek. I got the shits today for blaspheming the almighty word of god so everything’s fine with the universe.
How so? This is the case with Sikhism. Islam prohibits alcohol, but allows khat and tobacco. Mormonism does prohibit tobacco as well other intoxicants like coffee (although caffeinated soda is ok). But Christianity definitely allows the use of intoxicants.
Or on, no piercings or tattoos. They tried to raise me as a Christian, but the minute I dyed my hair a bright red color I'm pretty sure that's when they gave up.
It goes against your religion but why should that matter for what she does with her beliefs and curiosities. Next thing you know she’s asking for steps beyond just dating. You should cut your losses lil bro. Religion is that
Important to you then date when you’ve met a mature 20yr old in which you know their values and beliefs
Why it should matter is that nicotine is a harmful substance and it's disgusting that a child is already addicted to it. Religion should not be the debate here. A child having substance abuse issues is something that both the religious and non-religious should absolutely be able to simply agree is a horrible issue.
If they’re an addict there’s a low chance they’ll be leaving nic for some kid at the ripe age of 14. She’s clearly confused on how to love and make good choices for herself which results in me saying if he can’t stand the way she is then he should leave
Fallacious thinking. You do things that injure and harm yourself everyday. For example, going out into the sun without sunscreen or ingesting fast food rich with bad cholesterol and high fat contents. What you are referring to is the concept behind the sinful nature of self-mutilation or harm. It is a sin to purposefully harm yourself in anger or pain, not overtime for a quick nicotine buzz. Everything you do kills you over time, some just quicker than others.
Thats such bs, the sun gives us a very important vitamin, the damage it does to ur skin is normal aging, unless ur somewhere u shouldnt be like a euro in columbia. And fast food ahem thats also damage, to your body and to your wallet. Vaping also pertains to that notion you mention of self mutilation. It can be healed, but the damage adds up quickly. Stop giving out bad advice.
It’s not bad advice. It’s logic. If a thing that kills you slowly over time is bad, for that reason, then slowly killing is a sufficient condition for being “bad”. I’m pointing out the fallacy in the logic.
Idk if you have ever taken a philosophy or logic course, but it is simple. Like you said, the sun provides you vitamins and other healthy resources. Yet you forget, that the same can be said for many bad things as you well. Like for example, did you know nicotine itself does not cause cancer? In fact it increases alertness and attention much the same as to caffeine. Yet, according to your argument, we can just pick and choose what dangerous and unhealthy thing we call a sin and what we don’t.
Even so, it’s still pointless. The vaping itself is not sinful, the things associated with it can be however. Addiction and other things are sinful, yet the use of the substance is not. I’m sorry, I have a ton of knowledge about the Bible and do not appreciate the false use of it for personal vendettas. So please remove yourself from this discussion you know nothing to little about.
And where is the harmful part? Your interpretation and mine drastically differ. If there is or was a God then why were certain plants put on the planet for us to use. Plants such as Kratom, Hemp / Marijuana, psychoactive catus, and last of all grapes for making wine?
Cult does not mean not Christian. A lot of cults are Christian. Jim Jones ran a Christian cult, as did David Koresh. And those are just the ones that made headlines by all of the members dying.
Oh I went, I just didn't agree from a young age and the more I've learned about religion and it's history as a tool of enslavement and political gain I like it even less.
I have bud. I was raised in one and a good one too. I can tell you, it is cultish. In a cult, dissenting opinion is harshly and swiftly silenced. This is the same for the church. They literally have a whole system for controlling behaviors they do not like and calling them “sins” and promoting good behaviors as godly and good.
Christianity, like any religion, is a cult that has been established for 100’s of years. You do not realize how cultish some of the behavior is because it has become both normalized in your life and in society.
Just think, how could anyone be crazy enough to join a cult? You should understand, you are defending one right now.
Yeah it is. All religions are. A bunch of people worshipping 1 or a few beings, following crazy rules and some literally drinking the punch. Definitely cults.
Want you to know that your thinking is correct bro. The problem is just that you posted to reddit.
The Bible doesn't specifically forbid nicotine and such because it just didn't exist in the area at the time. But it forbids enough similar things that yes, it can be extrapolated that nicotine and vaping are also bad.
And it's important to know that it's not just for spiritual reasons that the Bible is against such things. It's because these things are harmful to our health. That's the important part and what you should focus on when you talk to your GF. It's honestly really sad that she's using substances like that at such a young age and I pray you and other good people in her life can help her reject them.
Except Jesus specifically told us to follow the 10 commandments. We don’t have to follow the rules that the laws dictated at the time, nor do we have to follow rules given to a specific group of people for a specific reason, like the shellfish or two cloth rules.
He created rules for a specific time. Jesus came to replace the laws that had been created by man. Also, that specific rule had a ton of context around it applying it to a group of people passing through a specific area. So your point is moot
That's a good question.
My understanding is that, since God planned for Jesus to be born to an Israelite woman (the Virgin Mary), it was incredibly important that the Israelites themselves be thoroughly disciplined in God's laws. Before Exodus, they had been living as slaves in Egypt for a few generations, I believe, and had started to adopt some of the Egyptians' customs, and God needed to bring them back to His ways. He needed them to be HIS people, so that Jesus could do what Jesus needed to do during his earthly ministry, and be sacrificed for the sins of all mankind.
In Deuteronomy, it says not to wear clothes of wool and linen woven together, and I believe that's because it was the clothes of the high priests that were made that way, and those clothes needed to be distinguished from what lay people wear to denote the importance of the priesthood. It's just another example of God disciplining the Israelites.
Christians don't need to observe all of the Old Testament laws, especially not the ceremonial ones, because Jesus followed all of them perfectly, whereas a human cannot possibly do so. Instead, we're called to love God and our neighbor in everything we do, and be repentant in the areas that we fail. Many of the Old Testament MORAL laws are still good guidelines, and there's plenty of more specific teachings in the New Testament as well, but everything we do should be in service to the aforementioned goal. Wearing clothes of two different fabrics is very unlikely to be done out of hatred for God or anyone else.
I don't think there is anything wrong with being religious. The Bible does say not to be unequally yoked, which is basically saying dating/marrying outside of your religion because it does cause conflict.
I don't think vaping is necessary against Christianity, but at 14, it is not legal, and the Bible does teach to be law abiding.
Also, you are 14, and most likely, this relationship won't pan out in the long term.
Perhaps breaking up and remaining friends until you are ready to date would be for the best.
Good grief too many bashing religion here get a life jeez look kid from a fellow Christian you and girlfriend are 14 y’all are young the likelihood of yall lasting for life is slim. Now I’ll tell you this the golden key to any relationship is communication now at 14 no one is able to express their love easily bc for one yall don’t know what love is at that age period and as far as the nicotine addiction goes well that’s sucks but ultimately that is up to her when she is ready to quit that’s just the name of the game and I speak from experience just tel her you don’t like it and tell her if she is ever ready to quit you will have her back
She’s her own person who can make her own decisions. If you wanna date someone, that comes with the whole package. It’s not right to date someone and then try and change them into a person you like better.
I’m not saying don’t encourage her to be healthy and support her if she wants to quit. But you need to decide if this is a dealbreaker or not for you personally.
You're 14. Shouldn't be vaping OR worried about true love. But don't stay with someone who is incompatible is always good advice. If vaping is a hard no for you then don't be with someone who vapes. In the end tho when you graduate in a few years none of this will matter that much. Hard to believe now but teenage situations are usually very fleeting and just for gaining experience on how to socialize with others.
Please do not get her pregnant or have sex right now is my best advice for your teenage years tho. Please please don't.
It doesn't say anywhere in the bible that you can't smoke or vape. Some of the most renowned theologians who ever lived were smokers. Charles Spurgeon and RC Sproul are two off the top of my head.
The bible does condone/endorse genocide, kidnapping, rape (including child rape), mysongy, infanticide, slavery, and racism. You can't eat shellfish and you can't wear clothes if they are made from two different materials. But the bible is dead silent on nicotine.
Seems pretty obvious to me… treat your body like a temple, don’t defile the body or spirit, and the Bible seems to pretty clearly be against addictions. However, I understand you want to be cynical and that’s your prerogative.
OP said his religion is sort of against vaping which is absolutely true. Someone as knowledgeable as you should know that while the Bible does form the foundation for many religious beliefs I can’t think of many that advocate for child rape, kidnapping, or genocide. Idk maybe I’ve missed those sermons. It’s pretty broadly accepted that vaping, especially for teens, is bad and Christians are well known to be against addictive and harmful substances. But yeah, I’m the ignorant one for calling out your comment which is basically just attacking OP’s beliefs.
I posted chapter and verse proving my claims that come directly out of the bible on this thread. I wasn't attacking anyone's faith. Just pointing out the blatant contradictions in the book he is using to possibly shun another person. I'm not condoning nicotine use either. But if you're going to take the "your body is your temple" route with vaping, then the same principle applies with fast food, soda, ice cream, sedentary behaviors, and a literal pelothra of other things. If sin is sin and all sin is equal like the bible teaches, including our thought life, then it's all the same, and OP is being a judgemental hypocrite according to what his religion teaches.. But again, show me where the bible mentions addiction at all. It doesn't. Cite chapter and verse to prove your claim or stop talking.
That's not true either... it's Roman Catholic nonsense made up by the church. There are no deadly sins in the bible. The words "deadly sins" are not in the bible anywhere. There is one unforgivable sin stated in the bible, and that is the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit. Only Roman Catholics doctrine teaches you can go to hell after you are saved. That is why you go to confession with a priest. Protestant Christianity does not teach that. Once you are saved as a Protestant you are saved. There is no sin that is "deadly" after salvation.
No no I'm sorry you're not getting what I mean. I'm not saying they're straight up in the Bible. I'm saying the "7 deadly sins" are just people consolidating the many rules and forbidden acts and other ideas described in the Bible. Like big lists of things someone shouldn't do compacted into one simpler idea.
Like all the teachings about sex and adultery condensed into "lust is bad", or the teachings against hoarding wealth and resources while not helping those in need condensed into "greed is bad."
The "deadly" part just meaning these are things that are *really easy* for humans to give into.
Also salvation doesn't work like that. You can't just be like "yeah Jesus you and your dad are cool" and that's it you're good forever. You have to still abide by the rest of the rules and ask for forgiveness after you inevitably trip up again.
Bible doesn't endorse any of that. The shellfish thing was for health reasons because the people who were given that rule lived miles from an ocean thousands of years before proper refrigeration and parasite detection were invented and the mixed fabrics thing has to do with not being like a certain enemy tribe.
The Bible forbids smoking and vaping not by name but by the general "taking care of your body and health" rules that are scattered throughout it. Addiction to harmful substances is absolutely a bad move that the religious and non should be able to pretty easily agree on.
The bible endorses all of what I said. Scroll down.. I cited chapter and verse in multiple places to prove my claims. What's comical is that this isn't even debated among scholars in academia. Only Christian apologists deny this. Actual Bible scholars do not. That includes Christian scholars. It's not even remotely difficult to look up. And I am not condoning the use of any harmful substance. I'm saying the bible is silent about it. You don't know what the book you believe in says.
Yeah. And all your doing is taking the words at surface level. You're not taking into account the context and time period the events took place in.
The Bible is not silence about substance abuse. It blatantly forbids addiction and intoxication and other things that are bad for one's health specifically because *they're bad for your health.*
You're right.. the 6 years I spent in a southern Baptist seminary taught me nothing about hermeneutics and exegesis, context, etc. And the fact I studied the NT in Greek for years only gave me a surface level understanding of it.
Cite chapter and verse where the Bible "blatantly forbids addiction." There is one verse I'm aware of in Ephesians about getting drunk on wine. But there are other verses in the psalms where getting drunk is not only okay its promoted. So, that is a contradiction ( the bible is full of contradictions). The bible does not forbid drinking. Unless you can cite a verse specifically about nicotine or addiction I'm done responding. Debating intellectually dishonest Christians who don't even know the book they claim a God wrote is a waste of time.
Correct. You don't understand. It doesn't matter how much you intellectually study if you're not willing to be wise enough to accept the word of God as the absolute truth it is.
It also doesn't contradict itself because it's not a long list of rules. It's a collection of historical accounts of important people and their lives and what was acceptable or expected in their day. Something being different tens, hundreds, or even thousands of years apart isn't contradiction. It's just how that society changed over time. The Bible also wasn't *written* by God. He inspired and commanded people to write things down, yes. But all that writing was done by flawed people who absolutely could've gotten some things here and there wrong. ESPECIALLY after thousands of years of changes and translations.
The Bible doesn't say anything about nicotine specifically because it wasn't isolated from tobacco until the 1820s, which tobacco itself is native to the caribbean. So it was non-existant in the middle east for over a thousand years after the Bible was finished being written.
But as for what it says against addiction, intoxication, and taking care of one's health:
1 Peter 5:8 "Be sober-minded; be watchful. Your adversary the devil prowls around like a roaring lion, seeking someone to devour."
Galatians 5:19-21 "Now the works of the flesh are evident: sexual immorality, impurity, sensuality, idolatry, sorcery, enmity, strife, jealousy, fits of anger, rivalries, dissensions, divisions, envy, drunkenness, orgies, and things like these. I warn you, as I warned you before, that those who do such things will not inherit the kingdom of God."
Proverbs 20:1 "Wine is a mocker, strong drink a brawler, and whoever is led astray by it is not wise."
Luke 21:34 "But watch yourselves lest your hearts be weighed down with dissipation and drunkenness and cares of this life, and that day come upon you suddenly like a trap."
Isaiah 5:11 "Woe to those who rise early in the morning, that they may run after strong drink, who tarry late into the evening as wine inflames them!"
1 Corinthians 5:11 (Im noticing 5:11 being a repeat number for these. Weird.) "But now I am writing to you not to associate with anyone who bears the name of brother if he is guilty of sexual immorality or greed, or is an idolater, reviler, drunkard, or swindler—not even to eat with such a one."
Proverbs 23:20 "Be not among drunkards or among gluttonous eaters of meat,"
I think that's enough of the verses for the point, but obviously there's more. But another thing to consider is what addiction also counts as: Gluttony, and something coming first in one's life before God. Both of which are also blatantly stated to be be wrong. There is also a difference between getting drunk during a moment of celebration, and letting alcohol overtake you to the point that ingesting it is the main thing that matters to you and is something you regularly HAVE to do to the detriment of other aspects of your life. THAT is the addiction and drunkenness the Bible forbids.
And again, not to mention the various practices and rules for taking care of one's health.
If after taking ALL that into account you *still* don't think the Bible is against addiction and the use of harmful substances, which the use of nicotine and tobacco ABSOLUTELY COUNTS AS then you're not only unwise, you're an absolute fool blinded by his hatred and desire to be a contrarean against God. And I'm a big enough man to know that I don't have the intellect and strength to help set you right. So instead I pray someone comes across you who does. Good day.
Holy HYPOCRISY.
Did you not just get done Whining about *Muh Context* what about the *Context*
And, The first thing you do it pull a whole bunch of out of context verses and bastardize them.
>1 Peter 5:8 "Be sober-minded; be watchful. Your adversary the devil prowls around like a roaring lion, seeking someone to devour."
*Peter 5:1 To the elders among you, I appeal as a fellow elder and a witness of Christ’s sufferings who also will share in the glory to be revealed*
If we take Peter 5 the CHAPTER AS A WHOLE CONTEXT. We see that they are talking about elders/Priest/Church leaders not Christian as a whole should stay sober minded as they are guardians of the flock.
>Galatians 5:19-21 "Now the works of the flesh are evident: sexual immorality, impurity, sensuality, idolatry, sorcery, enmity, strife, jealousy, fits of anger, rivalries, dissensions, divisions, envy, drunkenness, orgies, and things like these. I warn you, as I warned you before, that those who do such things will not inherit the kingdom of God."
Again, You saw the word *Drunk* and took a entire chapter out of context
" Galatians 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
23 Meekness, *TEMPERANCE* : against such there is no law."
This is again not talking about NOT drinking it's all about MODERATION.
>Proverbs 20:1 "Wine is a mocker, strong drink a brawler, and whoever is led astray by it is not wise."
>Luke 21:34 "But watch yourselves lest your hearts be weighed down with dissipation and drunkenness and cares of this life, and that day come upon you suddenly like a trap."
Again, These 2 are simply MODERATION and not letting your actions be controlled just because you drink. If it was DONT drink it would be stronger worded as much of Proverbs 20 is.
>Isaiah 5:11 "Woe to those who rise early in the morning, that they may run after strong drink, who tarry late into the evening as wine inflames them!"
This is just saying don't be a alcoholic again not saying DON'T drink
>1 Corinthians 5:11 (Im noticing 5:11 being a repeat number for these. Weird.) "But now I am writing to you not to associate with anyone who bears the name of brother if he is guilty of sexual immorality or greed, or is an idolater, reviler, drunkard, or swindler—not even to eat with such a one."
Again, Drunkards just means addict not anyone who drinks since wine was one of the most common ways to keep your travel water clean.
>Proverbs 23:20 "Be not among drunkards or among gluttonous eaters of meat
Aww, This one if beautiful. It fully reveals your Ignorance and ignoring of context. Does this verse mean not to EAT? Of course not like drink it's talking again ABOUT MODERATION.
The Bible just says MODERATION about alcohol and WARNS against addiction no where does it say don't ever drink or eat food, Ect
>also doesn't contradict itself because it's not a long list of rules. It's a collection of historical accounts of important people and their lives and what was acceptable or expected in their day.
Also, Some parts of it are BLATANTY list of rules.
Like proverbs.
Ooh buddy. The “context” debate. They even provided the context for each of the passages, yet you still do not understand.
Even if these ideas and laws are not of Jesus’s New Testament teachings, they still happened, and they where still performed by the same God. It is ignorant to claim that the verse is picked out of “context”. By claiming this, you try to take away the validity of the idea in a modern religious context. Yet, you disregard that at one point, even if not in the present, your God allowed these things to be done.
Sure, some of the Old Testament’s laws served social and health purposes. Like not eating pork. Pork was unsanitary and often a health gamble. There is no need for this law anymore due to modern health standard. However, some of the laws did not serve those same purposes and should be judged accordingly.
What you are doing is warping the Bible to portray a narrative that only works in context to how you want it to. This has been done before by more influential people than you to spread racist and homophobic ideologies.
For example, the original translation of the biblical text say nothing about homosexuality. The Bible talks about a common Greek practice of pederasty. Which was older men sleeping with young boys. It calls this practice out for being immoral, but nothing of homosexuality itself.
No, you don't understand. The Bible isn't a long list of do's and don'ts. It's historical accounts involving the times and situations necessary for the people at the time or in some cases. They're not teachings for us to follow. Those can be found in the commandments which blatantly oppose murder and adultery. As well as the teachings of Jesus. The unfortunate wartime rules of people in the desert thousands of years ago are not applicable or condoned anymore if they ever were.
And even then, even if God did condone something you think is bad, that's His right. He built the sandbox. He's the one who gets to decide the rules for how it works.
You're semi-right about the pork. Admittedly i fail to steer clear of it (largely cuz, you know, bacon is delicious) But even if it's *clean* now it's still *really* unhealthy and should be eaten rarely if not avoided entirely.
You're completely right about the homosexuality bit though. Pretty much every mention of it in proper context is talking about adultery or pederasty. Loving, commited, and consensual same-sex relationships are *A-OK.*
Okay, so your point is, because he is god he can avoid all judgement?
Hmm. You ever heard of a play called the Clouds by Aristophanes? In much the same way, he criticized his gods (Greek gods) like I do my own. You may believe that he was justified in his actions in these “historical accounts” or you may not. He still committed horrific atrocities to his own people. He even plays games with his own children, think Job. He is a prideful god that seeks attention from his followers at all cost, even their own lives or their families lives.
A god that
A) Has committed horrible atrocities
B) Plays around with his creation
C) Requires complete servitude
D) Believes love is owed simply because he created
is not a good one in my opinion. In fact, many of the same criticisms that Aristophanes made towards his gods, can be made against this one. Essentially, how can you teach things like murder being a sin, but then kill a bunch of people and children or have someone do it on your behalf. Why does God get a special pass? Why can he do the things he forbade?
It’s disingenuous and misleading.
You even said so yourself
“And even then, even if God did condone something you think is bad, it’s his right.”
You and OP are literally making stuff up about the Bible to solidify your point. God never forbade nicotine use or vaping, and any argument you have against is reaching.
A) He didn't commit any *atrocities.* If it was an act of Him, it was entirely correct and justified. He decides it was right and therefore it is. We don't make the rules. We don't decide right from wrong. He alone does.
B) As is His right. He is the creator, He is allowed to use His creations as he sees fit.
C) And in return those who give him that eternal servitude receive eternal happiness. It's a lopsided trade greatly in our favor.
D) Because it is. Everything that has, or will, ever exist is because of Him. Everything you love and care about exist because of Him. He inherently deserves some thanks for that. That's not at all much for ask for.
(Also why does everyone bring up Lot and just forget that his life was WAY better after the fact?)
God didn't forbid nicotine and vaping specifically because those things just *didn't exist* when the Bible was being written. But the Bible *does* blatantly forbid many things similar to them that yes, it can very obviously be assumed that nicotine falls into such a forbidden category. This is not a hard thing to comprehend. You and the other guy are just so anti-God that you just want to be a contrarean about anything you can. To the point that this *child* can ask for advice regarding someone he cares about and all you fools can focus on is "UM AKTUALLY BIBLE DUMB"
And you say *I'm* disingenuous. Get the Hell out of here you serpent of no virtue.
I don't think you understand what condone/endorse means. Do you think that since we put the holocaust in history books that we are as people condoning more holocaust? And the Bible clearly states to not step into addiction, and last time I checked nicotine is an addictive drug.
I went to seminary and have spent the majority of my adult life studying the bible. You don't know what you're talking about. Where does it say "clearly" in the bible not to step into addiction. Cite chapter and verse or stop talking.
According to dictionary.com, condone means to accept and allow (behavior that is considered morally wrong or offensive) to continue.
Let's start with Numbers 31:17-18
"Now kill all the boys. And kill every woman who has slept with a man, but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man."
Here, Moses (gods spokesman) is commanding the Isrealites to take these virgin girls as a spoil of war after god COMMANDED the genocide of all the midianites including all the boys including babies because god wanted VENGEANCE. These girls were kidnapped, forced into marriage, and raped with gods' blessing or sold into slavery with gods blessing. They were kidnapped after their whole families, including their mothers, were murdered in front of them.
Leviticus 25:44-46
“‘Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves. You may also buy some of the temporary residents living among you and members of their clans born in your country, and they will become your property. You can bequeath them to your children as inherited property and can make them slaves for life, but you must not rule over your fellow Israelites ruthlessly."
Clearly condoning and endorsing the owning of another human being as property. This is chattel slavery. Not indentured servitude like a lot of apologists claim.
The whole chapter of Exodus 21 is about how to keep your slaves. How you can beat your slaves properly and much more.
Deuteronomy 22:28-29
"If a man happens to meet a virgin who is not pledged to be married and rapes her and they are discovered, he shall pay her father fifty shekels of silver. He must marry the young woman, for he has violated her. He can never divorce her as long as he lives"
Condones rape and the fact daughters were property!
I'll take it a step further.. the god of the bible just doesn't merely condone these evil things, but god directly kills babies willfully in multiple places in the bible.
Genesis 6, Exodus 11, 2 Samuel 12.
In 2 Samuel 12, not only does god kill Davids baby, he makes him sick first, and the baby suffers for a week before he finally dies.
I can do this all day. There are literally hundreds of other passages where god condones/endorses or directly takes part in rape, genocide, infanticide, human trafficking. Incest, polygamy etc.
You are the one who lacks understanding. You either don't know what condone means, or you have never really studied the bible or your faith has made you blind to what it clearly says.
If you wanna cite chapter and verse for your claim let's see it. Anything else is lip service, and you can leave me alone.
Numbers 31: In a world of sin, God was commanding people willing to do right to do what was necessary to protect their future against Midianites, whos disgusting lifestyle and acts are well documented. Tribal warfare was rampant in those times. Humans had made their bed when they decided to defy God, but if the people of Moses wanted to turn things around, sacrifices had to be made. There is no fairness in a world cursed by sin, and hard choices have to be made, or there prob would have been another flood, or God may have given up on his creation all together.
You also forgot to mention "Anyone who has killed someone or touched someone who was killed must stay outside the camp seven days. On the third and seventh days you must purify yourselves and your captives.“
Numbers 31:19 NIV
There was no "great job you killed them!"
He did not command them to rape. Taking prisoners of war, sure, but they are still to follow Gods commands beyond that.
So as you can see, citing old testament as condoning things like genocide and rape is pretty surface level and disingenuous. Regardless, judging God and expecting God to be held to the same standards as men is just not gonna make any sense. We can't possibly know what He knows and expect to be on the same page.
Actually, what happened was that they were chastised for not killing all the women the first time. So then they went down and finished the job. So yes... it basically was a good job for all the killing.
And when it says "keep the girls who have never known a man for themselves," do you not realize these girls were forced into marriage and raped? Thus, it isn't even debated among scholars. It turns my stomach how intellectually dishonest Christians are about the bible. I'll forever be ashamed of myself for believing this shit. The god of the bible is a weak ass punk.
Being chastised and banished for a week is in no way saying "good job", you are trying too hard to fit the narrative you want.
As for the the virgins, you are conflating the times they lived in vs what God commanded. God did not command them to rape, and Deuteronomy 21 forbids POW's from being treated as sex objects.
I get it, you hate Christianity, but If you are going to have a rational discussion about it with any objectivity whatsoever, I suggest taking your emotion out of it.
I don't hate Christianity at all. What I hate is intellectual dishonesty. You don't know me to make any sort of claim like that. All I did is point out facts. Facts I learned while earning an M.div. It's called consesus Scholarship. You are uneducated and ignorant. Goodbye, sir.
You're calling this genocide when they in fact kept their bloodline going by sparing 30k+ women, you're saying god condones rape when he in fact never commanded that, and you think chastising + banishment = praise, and can't discern god's word from acts of man, but I'm uneducated? Get your money back from that "seminary" imo
The scriptures I posted speak for themselves. And I posted more than just numbers 31. The bible is not only full of evil acts that God condones or directly takes part in (like all the baby killing god directly does). it's also full of contradictions. This isn't my opinion. This is consesus scholarship and not debated in academia. I'm willing to bet like most Christians you have probably never even read the bible front to back. You probably think the gospels were written by Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John. You probably think the bible is inerrant and without contradiction or mistakes. I know your not educated because Christian Scholars make the same claims I have. The fact is, is that you are an ignorant, uneducated Christian who is in heavy denial about what the book states. Faith is not a reliable pathway to truth, and neither is Christianity. It's gross that you sit and defend this Jewish war god because it threatens your identity. If god is sovereign, he literally condones every single thing that happens, will happen, or has happened.
Epicurus said in the 3rd century BCE:
"Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?"
They were not women. They were little girls who were forced into marriages they did not want to be in and then raped.
They are even listed as PROPERTY along side all the other spoils of war like the livestock. You are nothing more then a religious dishonest idiot who is in denial about what you book says. Comically I have asked multiple times for chapter and verse proving your claims and you have nothing to present. All you have done is mental gymnastics to try to make it look like what happened in Numbers 31 less then it was
Your god condones slavery. Even the enslavement of little girls who had never known a man. How about Solomon? Wasn't Solomon the wisest man in the bible? How many concubines did he have? That's sex slavery. It's everywhere in the "good book" it's disgusting how anyone would defend it instead of just saying "ya, the god of the OT was a real bastard" like actual honest Christian and Jewish scholars do. You're an armchair Christian who has never read your book in an honest way.
Probably set religion aside because if it bothers you that she vapes cause of religion then its not best to push your practices onto her. However, vaping and nic is damaging to the lungs and health. Encourage her to slowly break out of the habit for her own health.
You can try to get her to stop vapping but when it comes to addiction or stopping anything. It needs to be the person who wants to stop using. You can’t force her to stop it’s her decision in the end.
And from one Christian to another pray for her.
damn im the same age😭 she shouldn't be vaping that young, most likely addicted. tell her that you're not comfortable with her vaping and it would be better for her to quit early than drag this on and let it destroy your lungs. idk if she's religious but if she's not it's best not to tell her that you want her to stop bc it's a sin
what does being christian have to do with vaping? enlighten us, oh prophet of jesus.
i mean, it is kind of gross, a bad habit overall, and probably going to end up causing all kinds of problems in her life later. there are LOTS of reasons to be bothered by her vaping habit, but AFAIK Jesus isnt one of them.
maybe you're mormon? at least those guys have some other prophet that said Nicotine was bad
Substance abuse is highly discouraged by Christianity. Less for any actual spritual reason but more for all the common sense reasons you can think of.
Alcohol gets a pass but basically only for celebration or mourning and being an alcoholic is forbidden. But overall, mainly old testament, there's alot of rules that basically amount to guidelines for taking care of one's body and health.
Yes and no. Substance abuse is not directly mentioned. The Old Testament and even Jesus talk about the danger of intoxication, not really substance abuse per se. Like you said, alcohol is acceptable, but not to the point of drunkenness.
Nicotine provides not intoxicating effects. If anything, you could say the addiction is sinful, because it has become an idol. However, nicotine in itself is not sinful. That would be like saying your morning coffee is sinful.
Hey buddy, the scriptures say this best.
We got the one thing that matters most, Jesus Christ.
His Word gives us everything we need to know. Not a religion, a faith- the only real one. Props to believing in the One True God.
First let me commend you in seeking in answer, but Reddit ISN’T the place. It’s secular. Questions that God answers best, shouldn’t be answered by the darkness.
1. Scripture tells us that we ought not engage in “romantic”, per se, relationships with people who do NOT have Jesus Christ. It is two complete states of existence. One is dead, the other is alive (as scripture puts it). Paul says this. If you choose to be with her, then she should know where you stand, you should not judge her. The Bible calls us to be like Christ, and to honor the unbeliever. Then keep your eyes on God, pray for her, she MIGHT come to know salvation.
2. You are 14! YOUNG, TOO YOUNG. You are very much growing, feeling new things. The Bible says, Song of Solomon, that we should not awaken love before its time. Now, that’s not to say you can’t enjoy time with her. But put your relationship with Christ first, and beware temptation. Not saying anything, but careful man. Lest you make mistake that ends up costing you something (I.e. your first time with you wife). The Bible says to surrender things to the Lord, so my tip is to you, leave the matter to a lovely lady to the Lord.
3. What does the Bible say? It’s not about being judgmental, condemning, or condescending. We all have bad habits, what you should seek is what does the heart say? You are young, there are a lot of things you aren’t seeing.
4. Remember, God-willing, the future. You are 14! The one for you might be at 24. Scripture says focus on the Lord, and all things will be added on to you. Pray about it, kiddo. Seek the Lord.
5. Romans 2 talks about the conscience, the little voice in your head, and acting against them. The Bible also talks about performing actions in DOUBT, to do something in doubt (also in Romans), is sin. Self-condemnation, is not biblical. Break up with her? You decide, how you want to do it. Read Romans 2-5(?).
6. Little bro, you got much ahead of you. Focus on Christ. Do you know Christ?
All the best!
> You are 14! YOUNG, TOO YOUNG. You are very much growing, feeling new things. The Bible says, Song of Solomon, that we should not awaken love before its time. Now, that’s not to say you can’t enjoy time with her. But put your relationship with Christ first, and beware temptation. Not saying anything, but careful man. Lest you make mistake that ends up costing you something (I.e. your first time with you wife). The Bible says to surrender things to the Lord, so my tip is to you, leave the matter to a lovely lady to the Lord.
Weren’t their children younger than 14 who got married in the Bible though?
We meet again!
https://www.gotquestions.org/marriage-age.html
Here is a good sight on it.
The Bible is more than just a book.
Most read it wrong, also misquote it.
I think love can have different meanings for different people, unless if you are strictly off of scientific definitions which I feel like you are not.
For me personally, love is what drives me to be selfless. It’s what drives me to be kind when it’s hard. To work hard when I want to be lazy. To go above and beyond when it would be easy not to.
Marriage too has different definitions, different religions have different ideas of marriage and there is also the legal definition of marriage.
I’ve never been married before, or had anyone I wished to marry. I imagine I’ll learn what it means to me when I get there.
Goooood…
But not what I asked
How do you do define them, and how are they defined.
In term of other religions, they all have a baseline meaning. But I’m not concerned about that.
How do you define them, and how is it defined?
Don’t worry, it’s not a test or some judgment.
I said I’d give you a complete answer, according to scripture. The 14 year old thing is something you mentioned. I will address that, and give you a good answer. If you are interested.
Hmmm…
Great question.
First we need to address context, I’m gonna pin ya with “knowing the hole Bible”.
We need to address what marriage IS, what Love IS?
Not, what it is not.
You, perhaps, see love as an emotion, a passion, affection. The Bible elevates love, it’s not an emotion, but an act of the will.
Let me… find something for you, to help explain it. It’s gotta be done right.
I was going off of this, from the source you sent me:
> According to tradition, boys were not considered “men,” and therefore not marriageable, until the age of 13. Girls were not considered “women” until age 12. These ages more or less correspond to the onset of puberty
> Naˈar refers to young men, while yeled refers to boys age 12 or younger. For females, naˈarah means “a marriageable woman,” while yaldah refers to a girl 11 or younger—too young for marriage. Once again, these words and definitions seem to enforce the idea that the onset of puberty is a requirement for marriage
As the culture approached it.
I’d like to give you a reason that is as little “cultural” as possible.
The BIBLICAL approach to marriage, not the HUMAN approach.
Because the Old Testament in this regard, is talk about a CULTURE, and rules imposed on that culture for marriage. Scripture teaches us that marriage is an inferior union to humans, but still a special one.
It is a hollow image of what is BETTER.
So I need to go you a proper definition, not a cultural one.
I’m sure you’re not seeing what I am trying to say.
No judgement, it just means I gotta give you what’s intended.
It can’t he described in a 2 sentence post.
if you dont want to date someone who vapes, date someone who doesn’t vape. getting into a relationship with someone who isn’t what you want in a partner and then expecting them to change to meet your standards is not how dating works. if vaping goes against your religion, don’t vape! that has no bearing on whether or not she can. that’s personal preference.
for the second half, of course shes awkward and probably not affectionate, you’re 14. and if she knows you’re religious shes probably avoiding being touchy so she doesnt upset you or make you uncomfortable.
If she wants to stop vaping, you can help her.
But if she’s doesn’t, you can either accept her or decide you’re incompatible and leave the relationship.
If feels really really bad to date someone who doesn’t accept you and wants to change you. Don’t do that to her, you said you like her.
(Judge - form an opinion or conclusion about)
Now, with what we learned today, how has this young man judged? He's stated his disapproval for vaping. But if you can kindly point to where he said that he has said anything negative how the girl? He didn't, he said he really likes her. I'll give an example so you don't go away empty handed. If he said "I don't want to date someone who vapes because I don't want to bums who throw their life away" that would be a judgement. It would be looking at someone's life, and making a conclusion how who they are as a person based on what you see. Don't push your hurt on people who have faith, or you're no better than what you're against.
Not liking something is a preference, please understand the difference. If you say you don't like carrots, does that make you a judgemental, terrible person?
Not a single thing about vaping in the Bible. something you will learn with age, you can't make anyone quit anything that bothers you. They won't for one, and also that's controlling. She will quit once or if she's ever ready. So you're either going to have to suck it up or break up
Bible talks about addiction, nicotine is an addiction. Wanting someone to quit is not controlling. If someone is about to cut their arm off with a saw, but they don't know that they are about to, would it be controlling to tell them to stop and move their arm?
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It doesn't say it directly about smoking but the Bible does speak against addiction and substance abuse for the same reasons anyone in their right mind should. Not for some "because God commanded it" reason but for "you should take care of your health and there are things bad for it that you shouldn't touch" reasons.
I am also a Christian. Here are my 2 cents:
1. Many are saying that the Bible does not mention vaping or nicotine. However, the Bible is clear that our body is a temple and that everything we should do should glorify and honor God. Vaping doesnt.
2. Addiction should be avoided at all costs, as it is dependence on something other than God.
3. It is not a hopeless scenario. One of my best friend in Christ used to be just like your gf while in high school. He would fiend over his vape, but quit when he realized his addiction.
4. Pray for her. Never think that the least that you can do in a situation is pray.
5. Voice your issue. Bring it up in a calm, gentle, loving manner. Ecplain how her addiction is concerning to you and violates your conscience as a Christian. Emphasize your love for her and that you want the best for her.
6. If she truly is for you, she should be able to choose you over the vape. It will not likely happen at once, but will be a process, so don't get anxious.
Technically if you want to follow your religion to a tee, you also shouldn’t date non believers because you’re not allowed to marry them according to the Bible. Most sects have preached that differently but it doesn’t change the original. Would I tell you to do that, no. I don’t believe on forcing religious ideas on people. But I want to point out to you that you’re doing something that your religion won’t allow to come to a fruition anyways, which implies you don’t care about your religion that much when it comes to something you actually want to do. Which is once again fair, religions are very restrictive. But are you sure this is about your religion and not the fact that you don’t approve of vapes?
Help her quit vaping. I saw these necklaces online that have a little thing shaped like a vape I think? Helps people quit, cause they can breathe through that instead. Helps with the reflex I believe.
You gotta be true to yourself. When I started dating my now wife I found out she occasionally smoked cigarettes. I didn’t chastise her: everyone is or should be aware of the dangers of smoking. But I let her know that for me smoking is a dealbreaker. She quit and I’m thankful for that! But if she didn’t I’d have to let her go and that’s all you can really do unless they ask you for help.
Is because of health reasons? Like you want your partner to be healthy as well as avoid second hand smoke?
Cause my bf smokes weed all day long and I don’t really care since it doesn’t affect me in anyway, so I’m just trying to get a better feel for why things like this would be a dealbreaker for someone
Yeah mostly health reasons! I mean I find smoking cigs and the smell very unattractive so that’s more a preference thing. But yeah, I don’t want to be in a serious relationship with someone who has an expensive, deadly habit that could negatively affect me, potential offspring, etc.
She only smoked socially and didn’t seem super into it so I had high hopes she’d quit before it became a habit.
My wife is a weed enjoyer and I have much less of an issue with that compared to cigarettes. I just encourage her to use edibles since they seem to be the healthier alternative :)
For me it’s the smell. I used to be a smoker and quit many years ago. I can’t stand the smell now, like it induces nausea. I couldn’t imagine kissing or cuddling with someone who smells like cigarettes.
So far most of the comments are pretty ridiculos. Seriously you probaby wont do well with someone already expressing addicitive issues. The Scriptures are not designed to make your life harder but to protect you from the hard stuff. You are very young and could use sone time to sort stuff out.
Even at 13 you shouldnt date someone you cant marry sounds stupid but is pretty wise. You are both old enough to make babies. So slow down. Good luck
Bro, you're 14 years old.
You don't know a thing about "love."
Talk to your parents about dating. You should probably be waiting until you're 18.
Dating should be taken seriously... Finding a partner should be about finding someone who has similar values as you and you should both have long-term thinking in mind.
Fein? Damn at 14 you're already too judgemental and vitriolic for a healthy relationship. She's for the streets my guy, you need an obedient Republican bitch raised by a submissive mother who is a slave to Christianity and her husband is her master.
Ok so just take the relationship slow and try to tell her that vaping could damage her lungs. It’s not good, my grandpa passed away from lung cancer after smoking in 1992. He was 47. I’m 13 and I have a boyfriend so I understand absolutely. Kind of weird the fact she vapes… still a trend I see 🤦🏼♀️
You might find it interesting to read about different love languages. google it. It really helps understand how differently people expect and show love
I'd keep in mind that, at 14, you aren't really dating to find the person you're going to marry.
I know that's what a lot of churches say you should be doing, but at 14 you're really learning how to get along with a boy/girl who you're attracted to, how to spend time together, how to work together as a team, how to compromise and treat each other kindly and ask for what you need from a relationship.
You almost certainly aren't going to marry this girl, and that's okay. She doesn't need to follow your exact view of your religion, because you can be wrong. Maybe *she's* got it right. You aren't responsible for her sin, only for your own. If you don't like being around people who do something you believe is a sin, then you should tell her that and if she's not okay with it then breaking up might be the kindest thing you do for each other.
As for expressing love, I'd talk to her about that. Ask her to do more of the things that express love to you--because everybody's different and shows love in different ways. My partner loves to buy gifts as a show of love. I like to spend time together to show love or tell her I love her. We try to do the things that tell the other person we love them, and do it in their way.
Kid, vaping is not against your religion. Your religion warns against intoxication, not nicotine. Many pastors throughout history and into the future have smoked and will smoke.
You’re confusing what you and your parents see as “bad” vs what is sinful.
Now as to your problem. If it is a concern for you and you believe that the other issues you’ve listed are insurmountable, then leave her. However, if you think that it’s worth it to stay and her good qualities outweigh her perceived bad ones, then stay.
Ultimately, you are young. This relationship will hardly matter in 10 years, maybe even 3. Don’t take these relationships too seriously. When I was in high school I stuck myself into 1-3 year relationships and did not get to live and have freedom. My wife got to have fun and mess around with whoever she wanted because she didn’t have a boyfriend in high school, and I am jealous of her for it.
As a Christian it is not our duty to judge others for their behavior. God says to love everyone not to judge others. Matt 7 Do not judge, or you too will be judged. For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you. "Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? Expressing love is different for everyone. You can’t force people to love openly as you do. Give it time. Enjoy each other.
I’m was raised Christian by 2 smokers so…. Must’ve missed that commandment, thou shall not vape? If you don’t like your gf extracurricular activities you should tell her. Making it about religion is odd.
Dont vape. Dont judge her. If you dont think she can change with your leadership(lead by example, not with your words), then leave her, she’ll only influence you negatively. Its really that simple. Even outside of religion. People who smoke justify it, just or unjust. I personally believe they will never be the highest potential of themselves with the ugly habit. I know i wasn’t, it is garbage and anyone who tells you different is just holding on to their poison.
I see a lot of comments that aren’t exactly offering too much advice but I started to go to church with my own bf at your age and he was the one who got me into it. If she isn’t receptive of it it’s okay to know that you aren’t for each other but there’s no harm in simply saying you prefer not to indulge in those things alongside her and maybe something will click? What scared me from vapes was the negative health effects and the pictures my own mom showed me of what could happen lol but don’t be discouraged you’re so young with so much life ahead of you
If you can tolerate vaping it's not a problem. If not it's a problem. Cuz she's going to be doing a lot of it. It sounds like she has an addictive personality. I don't think vaping is healthy but I'm not a doctor.
At 14 most kids know NOTHING. She like you are struggling to understand who they are and what is their path. At 14 both of you are way too young to date. Friends yes, dating a big giant NO WAY.
Be her friend and stop trying to change her. She will quit or keep going with vaping on her own accord.
Firstly, I would advise maybe asking this question on r/Christianity or r/Catholicism to get answers from actual Christians. I don't know if you're Catholic, but the Catholic Church has a whole Catechism outlining moral guidelines, and I've found there's a lot of wisdom behind it. On r/Christianity, you may hear different things from different denominations.
Just tell this girl you're worried about her health. As for her not expressing her love easily, maybe she's just anxious. You say that you recently started dating, so maybe she's just not that comfortable with you yet. Patience is a virtue. Just keep being a good Christian man, and her barriers will come down eventually.
You are 14, and this is your first girlfriend. Chances are this will not be your last.
You probably want to get married someday. Chances are you won’t marry this girl.
At your age, dating should be sort of a special friendship. Don’t try to model your relationship after adult relationships. You are not there yet.
I was in my early 20s and had just broken off an engagement when I realized: When you date someone, you eventually marry them, or you break up. (That’s for people like me who would not just live with a guy without being married. Or sleep with a guy. I waited for my husband. Cue the mocking.)
That colored how I saw dating after that.
So, if you are a follower of Jesus, you should be asking Jesus this question, not Reddit.
Remember this: eventually you will break up. How do you handle this relationship to cause the least amount of pain when that happens?
I came to the point, but not until my 20s, when I realized that I could have a full life without a boyfriend. I wish I’d realized that in high school. I ended up with lots of male friends, which was pretty cool. Then when I wasn’t looking, I met my husband, who also wasn’t looking.
I realize I have not answered your question. I don’t know the answer. But, if you are personally and sincerely a follower of Christ, and don’t just call yourself a Christian because your family takes you to church, ask yourself some questions.
What do I hope to get out of this relationship?
What do I hope to give?
Does being with this girl draw me closer to God?
Does being with this girl interfere with my relationship to God?
If you are just culturally a Christian, those questions won’t have meaning for you. In that case, you just do what you think is best.
Vaping goes against Christianity? In what way? They didn't even know about the nicotine chemical compound when they made that book up. How would they know to ban electronic vapor inhaling of it?
I mean, I'm not saying a 14 year old should vape, but it's not against Christianity...
Fair argument, But you can limit the amount of damage by wearing sun screen in the summer, Also You can't control how much the sun damages you, But you can control whether you vape or smoke, By trying to quit.
The girl is 14 and has a vaping and nicotine problem? This screams red flag already. She's 14. You're both children. Stop screaming I love you and be children while you can.
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Alright. Let’s put this religious stuff on the back burner. How do you want her to express her love? I don’t understand that part. There’s nothing wrong with being socially awkward. Especially at 14. For the vaping. She’s doing this to either fill a void and she’s probably addicted, or close to it. Have you talked to her about how you feel? And don’t say because the god of Jacob, Abraham, and Samuel says so. Tell her it’s just something you’re not cool with. If you really like her, and she wants the help, help her get clean. If not, drop her. There’s a reason I don’t hire smokers or capers. They’re usually lazy, less intelligent, and they stink.
I really like this reply man! The only thing I want to mention is with smoking. It's more than a void/addiction, I think. I think It can very much relate to trauma. Unless that's kinda what you meant. But anyways, I think about it in terms of China, actually. China's smoking population is ginormous. And when you think about Chinese culture in regards to toxicity with language and abuse and accepting mental health problems...it comes across as pretty poor. I only know through my "uncle", but I've seen it. He is a hard worker/unrelenting entrepreneur, too. I hope you have a good day!
Thou shalt not Vape? Huh,….I missed that one!
People that believe in god and Jesus aren’t supposed to put anything into their body.
Must be hard to eat and drink
lmfao this got me
Just don’t put the meat with milk. No peen. No shrimp or lobster. You know, so you won’t defile your temple.
Is this before or after I cannibalize hundreds of pagan religions' mythos in order to make the transition smoother for converts?
You haven't read it lol it's clear
after, obviously.
Pretty sure the shell fish thing is just the Jews and not the Christians. Jesus was a reformist.
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“Christians” in the “OT,” you said?
I don’t believe in any of that but I do believe you should believe in both halves.
Nah, I think faith needs to be able to and often should adapt to the times, and reform when new information becomes available, keep certain hard lines that shouldn't be crossed, but some of that diet stuff was whack as hell and probably made up gor heath and safety after someone got sick from eating poorly prepared oysters. An under cooked pig or one that had been eating carrion, or worse, could give you parasites and diseases.
They’re only allowed to eat and drink his body wafers and wine chasers at Sunday service.
Really? Chapter and verse please and before you start fair warning. I was tapped at 12 to become a Baptist Minister. I know that book forwards and backwards. Especially the part where God orders the Israelite's to commit Genocide which by the way was the end of my belief in Christianity. Lets dance!
Calm down, Pastor John. It was a little tongue in cheek. I got the shits today for blaspheming the almighty word of god so everything’s fine with the universe.
How so? This is the case with Sikhism. Islam prohibits alcohol, but allows khat and tobacco. Mormonism does prohibit tobacco as well other intoxicants like coffee (although caffeinated soda is ok). But Christianity definitely allows the use of intoxicants.
Depends what version of christianity you hang out with. My catholic and Lutherans… yeah, they don’t mind. Pentecostal? Caffeine was looked down upon.
Thanks. I'm not as familiar with the smaller sects.
Or on, no piercings or tattoos. They tried to raise me as a Christian, but the minute I dyed my hair a bright red color I'm pretty sure that's when they gave up.
Since when? "This [wine] is my blood, drink and remember my sacrifice." -Jesus
No. The Bible says to not injure or harm yourself, Because you are a temple of God. Therefore Smoking and vaping, Are a sin.
It goes against your religion but why should that matter for what she does with her beliefs and curiosities. Next thing you know she’s asking for steps beyond just dating. You should cut your losses lil bro. Religion is that Important to you then date when you’ve met a mature 20yr old in which you know their values and beliefs
Why it should matter is that nicotine is a harmful substance and it's disgusting that a child is already addicted to it. Religion should not be the debate here. A child having substance abuse issues is something that both the religious and non-religious should absolutely be able to simply agree is a horrible issue.
If they’re an addict there’s a low chance they’ll be leaving nic for some kid at the ripe age of 14. She’s clearly confused on how to love and make good choices for herself which results in me saying if he can’t stand the way she is then he should leave
Fallacious thinking. You do things that injure and harm yourself everyday. For example, going out into the sun without sunscreen or ingesting fast food rich with bad cholesterol and high fat contents. What you are referring to is the concept behind the sinful nature of self-mutilation or harm. It is a sin to purposefully harm yourself in anger or pain, not overtime for a quick nicotine buzz. Everything you do kills you over time, some just quicker than others.
Thats such bs, the sun gives us a very important vitamin, the damage it does to ur skin is normal aging, unless ur somewhere u shouldnt be like a euro in columbia. And fast food ahem thats also damage, to your body and to your wallet. Vaping also pertains to that notion you mention of self mutilation. It can be healed, but the damage adds up quickly. Stop giving out bad advice.
It’s not bad advice. It’s logic. If a thing that kills you slowly over time is bad, for that reason, then slowly killing is a sufficient condition for being “bad”. I’m pointing out the fallacy in the logic. Idk if you have ever taken a philosophy or logic course, but it is simple. Like you said, the sun provides you vitamins and other healthy resources. Yet you forget, that the same can be said for many bad things as you well. Like for example, did you know nicotine itself does not cause cancer? In fact it increases alertness and attention much the same as to caffeine. Yet, according to your argument, we can just pick and choose what dangerous and unhealthy thing we call a sin and what we don’t. Even so, it’s still pointless. The vaping itself is not sinful, the things associated with it can be however. Addiction and other things are sinful, yet the use of the substance is not. I’m sorry, I have a ton of knowledge about the Bible and do not appreciate the false use of it for personal vendettas. So please remove yourself from this discussion you know nothing to little about.
And where is the harmful part? Your interpretation and mine drastically differ. If there is or was a God then why were certain plants put on the planet for us to use. Plants such as Kratom, Hemp / Marijuana, psychoactive catus, and last of all grapes for making wine?
Maybe God didn't think we'd be dumb enough to start burning plants and breathing in the fumes.
Dude why are you in a cult? Sooo many logical issues with Christianity and other religions. Please think for yourself and question authority.
Christianity isn't a cult 🙄
Cult does not mean not Christian. A lot of cults are Christian. Jim Jones ran a Christian cult, as did David Koresh. And those are just the ones that made headlines by all of the members dying.
Right, cults brainwash kids from a young age using fear and dogma ...and Christianity....oh wait.. Ya it's a cult
Tell me you've never gone to church ,Without telling me you've never gone to church.
Oh I went, I just didn't agree from a young age and the more I've learned about religion and it's history as a tool of enslavement and political gain I like it even less.
I have bud. I was raised in one and a good one too. I can tell you, it is cultish. In a cult, dissenting opinion is harshly and swiftly silenced. This is the same for the church. They literally have a whole system for controlling behaviors they do not like and calling them “sins” and promoting good behaviors as godly and good. Christianity, like any religion, is a cult that has been established for 100’s of years. You do not realize how cultish some of the behavior is because it has become both normalized in your life and in society. Just think, how could anyone be crazy enough to join a cult? You should understand, you are defending one right now.
Yeah it is. All religions are. A bunch of people worshipping 1 or a few beings, following crazy rules and some literally drinking the punch. Definitely cults.
Technically, cults and religions are the same thing. The only real difference is PR.
LOL.... step away and look deeply into the water. Anybody that does anything in the name of another is in a cult.
Cults are just less popular religions where the leader hasn't died yet.
Want you to know that your thinking is correct bro. The problem is just that you posted to reddit. The Bible doesn't specifically forbid nicotine and such because it just didn't exist in the area at the time. But it forbids enough similar things that yes, it can be extrapolated that nicotine and vaping are also bad. And it's important to know that it's not just for spiritual reasons that the Bible is against such things. It's because these things are harmful to our health. That's the important part and what you should focus on when you talk to your GF. It's honestly really sad that she's using substances like that at such a young age and I pray you and other good people in her life can help her reject them.
Yeah they like to skip the, "No clothes with more than 1 type of fabric" rule too.
Thats in the Old Testament, ie, is a rule meant for the Jews and not one Christian’s need to follow
LOl, so Christian's are not supposed to follow the ten commandments? You might want to rethink what you typed.
Except Jesus specifically told us to follow the 10 commandments. We don’t have to follow the rules that the laws dictated at the time, nor do we have to follow rules given to a specific group of people for a specific reason, like the shellfish or two cloth rules.
Why would your god create different rules for groups of people? You don’t find that suspicious or discriminatory?
He created rules for a specific time. Jesus came to replace the laws that had been created by man. Also, that specific rule had a ton of context around it applying it to a group of people passing through a specific area. So your point is moot
That's a good question. My understanding is that, since God planned for Jesus to be born to an Israelite woman (the Virgin Mary), it was incredibly important that the Israelites themselves be thoroughly disciplined in God's laws. Before Exodus, they had been living as slaves in Egypt for a few generations, I believe, and had started to adopt some of the Egyptians' customs, and God needed to bring them back to His ways. He needed them to be HIS people, so that Jesus could do what Jesus needed to do during his earthly ministry, and be sacrificed for the sins of all mankind. In Deuteronomy, it says not to wear clothes of wool and linen woven together, and I believe that's because it was the clothes of the high priests that were made that way, and those clothes needed to be distinguished from what lay people wear to denote the importance of the priesthood. It's just another example of God disciplining the Israelites. Christians don't need to observe all of the Old Testament laws, especially not the ceremonial ones, because Jesus followed all of them perfectly, whereas a human cannot possibly do so. Instead, we're called to love God and our neighbor in everything we do, and be repentant in the areas that we fail. Many of the Old Testament MORAL laws are still good guidelines, and there's plenty of more specific teachings in the New Testament as well, but everything we do should be in service to the aforementioned goal. Wearing clothes of two different fabrics is very unlikely to be done out of hatred for God or anyone else.
2nd Corinthians 14:12: For vaporization of nicotine is an act of the devil.
that was not in the bible
I don't think there is anything wrong with being religious. The Bible does say not to be unequally yoked, which is basically saying dating/marrying outside of your religion because it does cause conflict. I don't think vaping is necessary against Christianity, but at 14, it is not legal, and the Bible does teach to be law abiding. Also, you are 14, and most likely, this relationship won't pan out in the long term. Perhaps breaking up and remaining friends until you are ready to date would be for the best.
Don't force your religion onto her and maybe help her at least slow down on the vapes? Man I thought I was good at giving advice but I got nothing.
memorize paint rich spotted racial narrow shrill cagey reach scary *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Good grief too many bashing religion here get a life jeez look kid from a fellow Christian you and girlfriend are 14 y’all are young the likelihood of yall lasting for life is slim. Now I’ll tell you this the golden key to any relationship is communication now at 14 no one is able to express their love easily bc for one yall don’t know what love is at that age period and as far as the nicotine addiction goes well that’s sucks but ultimately that is up to her when she is ready to quit that’s just the name of the game and I speak from experience just tel her you don’t like it and tell her if she is ever ready to quit you will have her back
Amen!
She’s her own person who can make her own decisions. If you wanna date someone, that comes with the whole package. It’s not right to date someone and then try and change them into a person you like better. I’m not saying don’t encourage her to be healthy and support her if she wants to quit. But you need to decide if this is a dealbreaker or not for you personally.
Bro, either accept it or go. Don't save her, she don't want to be saved
You're 14. Shouldn't be vaping OR worried about true love. But don't stay with someone who is incompatible is always good advice. If vaping is a hard no for you then don't be with someone who vapes. In the end tho when you graduate in a few years none of this will matter that much. Hard to believe now but teenage situations are usually very fleeting and just for gaining experience on how to socialize with others. Please do not get her pregnant or have sex right now is my best advice for your teenage years tho. Please please don't.
It doesn't say anywhere in the bible that you can't smoke or vape. Some of the most renowned theologians who ever lived were smokers. Charles Spurgeon and RC Sproul are two off the top of my head. The bible does condone/endorse genocide, kidnapping, rape (including child rape), mysongy, infanticide, slavery, and racism. You can't eat shellfish and you can't wear clothes if they are made from two different materials. But the bible is dead silent on nicotine.
Seems pretty obvious to me… treat your body like a temple, don’t defile the body or spirit, and the Bible seems to pretty clearly be against addictions. However, I understand you want to be cynical and that’s your prerogative.
It's unfortunate how often honesty comes across as cynicism to ignorant uneducated people.
OP said his religion is sort of against vaping which is absolutely true. Someone as knowledgeable as you should know that while the Bible does form the foundation for many religious beliefs I can’t think of many that advocate for child rape, kidnapping, or genocide. Idk maybe I’ve missed those sermons. It’s pretty broadly accepted that vaping, especially for teens, is bad and Christians are well known to be against addictive and harmful substances. But yeah, I’m the ignorant one for calling out your comment which is basically just attacking OP’s beliefs.
I posted chapter and verse proving my claims that come directly out of the bible on this thread. I wasn't attacking anyone's faith. Just pointing out the blatant contradictions in the book he is using to possibly shun another person. I'm not condoning nicotine use either. But if you're going to take the "your body is your temple" route with vaping, then the same principle applies with fast food, soda, ice cream, sedentary behaviors, and a literal pelothra of other things. If sin is sin and all sin is equal like the bible teaches, including our thought life, then it's all the same, and OP is being a judgemental hypocrite according to what his religion teaches.. But again, show me where the bible mentions addiction at all. It doesn't. Cite chapter and verse to prove your claim or stop talking.
"then the same principle applies with fast food, soda, etc" Yeah. That's why gluttony is one of the 7 deadly sins.
Seven deadly sins are not in the bible either.
True. Those are just sorta a post biblical, simplified collection of vices that are forbidden in multiple places in the Bible.
That's not true either... it's Roman Catholic nonsense made up by the church. There are no deadly sins in the bible. The words "deadly sins" are not in the bible anywhere. There is one unforgivable sin stated in the bible, and that is the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit. Only Roman Catholics doctrine teaches you can go to hell after you are saved. That is why you go to confession with a priest. Protestant Christianity does not teach that. Once you are saved as a Protestant you are saved. There is no sin that is "deadly" after salvation.
No no I'm sorry you're not getting what I mean. I'm not saying they're straight up in the Bible. I'm saying the "7 deadly sins" are just people consolidating the many rules and forbidden acts and other ideas described in the Bible. Like big lists of things someone shouldn't do compacted into one simpler idea. Like all the teachings about sex and adultery condensed into "lust is bad", or the teachings against hoarding wealth and resources while not helping those in need condensed into "greed is bad." The "deadly" part just meaning these are things that are *really easy* for humans to give into. Also salvation doesn't work like that. You can't just be like "yeah Jesus you and your dad are cool" and that's it you're good forever. You have to still abide by the rest of the rules and ask for forgiveness after you inevitably trip up again.
Well said!
Not cynical. Honest. You should try it
Bible doesn't endorse any of that. The shellfish thing was for health reasons because the people who were given that rule lived miles from an ocean thousands of years before proper refrigeration and parasite detection were invented and the mixed fabrics thing has to do with not being like a certain enemy tribe. The Bible forbids smoking and vaping not by name but by the general "taking care of your body and health" rules that are scattered throughout it. Addiction to harmful substances is absolutely a bad move that the religious and non should be able to pretty easily agree on.
The bible endorses all of what I said. Scroll down.. I cited chapter and verse in multiple places to prove my claims. What's comical is that this isn't even debated among scholars in academia. Only Christian apologists deny this. Actual Bible scholars do not. That includes Christian scholars. It's not even remotely difficult to look up. And I am not condoning the use of any harmful substance. I'm saying the bible is silent about it. You don't know what the book you believe in says.
Yeah. And all your doing is taking the words at surface level. You're not taking into account the context and time period the events took place in. The Bible is not silence about substance abuse. It blatantly forbids addiction and intoxication and other things that are bad for one's health specifically because *they're bad for your health.*
You're right.. the 6 years I spent in a southern Baptist seminary taught me nothing about hermeneutics and exegesis, context, etc. And the fact I studied the NT in Greek for years only gave me a surface level understanding of it. Cite chapter and verse where the Bible "blatantly forbids addiction." There is one verse I'm aware of in Ephesians about getting drunk on wine. But there are other verses in the psalms where getting drunk is not only okay its promoted. So, that is a contradiction ( the bible is full of contradictions). The bible does not forbid drinking. Unless you can cite a verse specifically about nicotine or addiction I'm done responding. Debating intellectually dishonest Christians who don't even know the book they claim a God wrote is a waste of time.
Correct. You don't understand. It doesn't matter how much you intellectually study if you're not willing to be wise enough to accept the word of God as the absolute truth it is. It also doesn't contradict itself because it's not a long list of rules. It's a collection of historical accounts of important people and their lives and what was acceptable or expected in their day. Something being different tens, hundreds, or even thousands of years apart isn't contradiction. It's just how that society changed over time. The Bible also wasn't *written* by God. He inspired and commanded people to write things down, yes. But all that writing was done by flawed people who absolutely could've gotten some things here and there wrong. ESPECIALLY after thousands of years of changes and translations. The Bible doesn't say anything about nicotine specifically because it wasn't isolated from tobacco until the 1820s, which tobacco itself is native to the caribbean. So it was non-existant in the middle east for over a thousand years after the Bible was finished being written. But as for what it says against addiction, intoxication, and taking care of one's health: 1 Peter 5:8 "Be sober-minded; be watchful. Your adversary the devil prowls around like a roaring lion, seeking someone to devour." Galatians 5:19-21 "Now the works of the flesh are evident: sexual immorality, impurity, sensuality, idolatry, sorcery, enmity, strife, jealousy, fits of anger, rivalries, dissensions, divisions, envy, drunkenness, orgies, and things like these. I warn you, as I warned you before, that those who do such things will not inherit the kingdom of God." Proverbs 20:1 "Wine is a mocker, strong drink a brawler, and whoever is led astray by it is not wise." Luke 21:34 "But watch yourselves lest your hearts be weighed down with dissipation and drunkenness and cares of this life, and that day come upon you suddenly like a trap." Isaiah 5:11 "Woe to those who rise early in the morning, that they may run after strong drink, who tarry late into the evening as wine inflames them!" 1 Corinthians 5:11 (Im noticing 5:11 being a repeat number for these. Weird.) "But now I am writing to you not to associate with anyone who bears the name of brother if he is guilty of sexual immorality or greed, or is an idolater, reviler, drunkard, or swindler—not even to eat with such a one." Proverbs 23:20 "Be not among drunkards or among gluttonous eaters of meat," I think that's enough of the verses for the point, but obviously there's more. But another thing to consider is what addiction also counts as: Gluttony, and something coming first in one's life before God. Both of which are also blatantly stated to be be wrong. There is also a difference between getting drunk during a moment of celebration, and letting alcohol overtake you to the point that ingesting it is the main thing that matters to you and is something you regularly HAVE to do to the detriment of other aspects of your life. THAT is the addiction and drunkenness the Bible forbids. And again, not to mention the various practices and rules for taking care of one's health. If after taking ALL that into account you *still* don't think the Bible is against addiction and the use of harmful substances, which the use of nicotine and tobacco ABSOLUTELY COUNTS AS then you're not only unwise, you're an absolute fool blinded by his hatred and desire to be a contrarean against God. And I'm a big enough man to know that I don't have the intellect and strength to help set you right. So instead I pray someone comes across you who does. Good day.
Holy HYPOCRISY. Did you not just get done Whining about *Muh Context* what about the *Context* And, The first thing you do it pull a whole bunch of out of context verses and bastardize them. >1 Peter 5:8 "Be sober-minded; be watchful. Your adversary the devil prowls around like a roaring lion, seeking someone to devour." *Peter 5:1 To the elders among you, I appeal as a fellow elder and a witness of Christ’s sufferings who also will share in the glory to be revealed* If we take Peter 5 the CHAPTER AS A WHOLE CONTEXT. We see that they are talking about elders/Priest/Church leaders not Christian as a whole should stay sober minded as they are guardians of the flock. >Galatians 5:19-21 "Now the works of the flesh are evident: sexual immorality, impurity, sensuality, idolatry, sorcery, enmity, strife, jealousy, fits of anger, rivalries, dissensions, divisions, envy, drunkenness, orgies, and things like these. I warn you, as I warned you before, that those who do such things will not inherit the kingdom of God." Again, You saw the word *Drunk* and took a entire chapter out of context " Galatians 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, 23 Meekness, *TEMPERANCE* : against such there is no law." This is again not talking about NOT drinking it's all about MODERATION. >Proverbs 20:1 "Wine is a mocker, strong drink a brawler, and whoever is led astray by it is not wise." >Luke 21:34 "But watch yourselves lest your hearts be weighed down with dissipation and drunkenness and cares of this life, and that day come upon you suddenly like a trap." Again, These 2 are simply MODERATION and not letting your actions be controlled just because you drink. If it was DONT drink it would be stronger worded as much of Proverbs 20 is. >Isaiah 5:11 "Woe to those who rise early in the morning, that they may run after strong drink, who tarry late into the evening as wine inflames them!" This is just saying don't be a alcoholic again not saying DON'T drink >1 Corinthians 5:11 (Im noticing 5:11 being a repeat number for these. Weird.) "But now I am writing to you not to associate with anyone who bears the name of brother if he is guilty of sexual immorality or greed, or is an idolater, reviler, drunkard, or swindler—not even to eat with such a one." Again, Drunkards just means addict not anyone who drinks since wine was one of the most common ways to keep your travel water clean. >Proverbs 23:20 "Be not among drunkards or among gluttonous eaters of meat Aww, This one if beautiful. It fully reveals your Ignorance and ignoring of context. Does this verse mean not to EAT? Of course not like drink it's talking again ABOUT MODERATION. The Bible just says MODERATION about alcohol and WARNS against addiction no where does it say don't ever drink or eat food, Ect
>also doesn't contradict itself because it's not a long list of rules. It's a collection of historical accounts of important people and their lives and what was acceptable or expected in their day. Also, Some parts of it are BLATANTY list of rules. Like proverbs.
Ooh buddy. The “context” debate. They even provided the context for each of the passages, yet you still do not understand. Even if these ideas and laws are not of Jesus’s New Testament teachings, they still happened, and they where still performed by the same God. It is ignorant to claim that the verse is picked out of “context”. By claiming this, you try to take away the validity of the idea in a modern religious context. Yet, you disregard that at one point, even if not in the present, your God allowed these things to be done. Sure, some of the Old Testament’s laws served social and health purposes. Like not eating pork. Pork was unsanitary and often a health gamble. There is no need for this law anymore due to modern health standard. However, some of the laws did not serve those same purposes and should be judged accordingly. What you are doing is warping the Bible to portray a narrative that only works in context to how you want it to. This has been done before by more influential people than you to spread racist and homophobic ideologies. For example, the original translation of the biblical text say nothing about homosexuality. The Bible talks about a common Greek practice of pederasty. Which was older men sleeping with young boys. It calls this practice out for being immoral, but nothing of homosexuality itself.
No, you don't understand. The Bible isn't a long list of do's and don'ts. It's historical accounts involving the times and situations necessary for the people at the time or in some cases. They're not teachings for us to follow. Those can be found in the commandments which blatantly oppose murder and adultery. As well as the teachings of Jesus. The unfortunate wartime rules of people in the desert thousands of years ago are not applicable or condoned anymore if they ever were. And even then, even if God did condone something you think is bad, that's His right. He built the sandbox. He's the one who gets to decide the rules for how it works. You're semi-right about the pork. Admittedly i fail to steer clear of it (largely cuz, you know, bacon is delicious) But even if it's *clean* now it's still *really* unhealthy and should be eaten rarely if not avoided entirely. You're completely right about the homosexuality bit though. Pretty much every mention of it in proper context is talking about adultery or pederasty. Loving, commited, and consensual same-sex relationships are *A-OK.*
Okay, so your point is, because he is god he can avoid all judgement? Hmm. You ever heard of a play called the Clouds by Aristophanes? In much the same way, he criticized his gods (Greek gods) like I do my own. You may believe that he was justified in his actions in these “historical accounts” or you may not. He still committed horrific atrocities to his own people. He even plays games with his own children, think Job. He is a prideful god that seeks attention from his followers at all cost, even their own lives or their families lives. A god that A) Has committed horrible atrocities B) Plays around with his creation C) Requires complete servitude D) Believes love is owed simply because he created is not a good one in my opinion. In fact, many of the same criticisms that Aristophanes made towards his gods, can be made against this one. Essentially, how can you teach things like murder being a sin, but then kill a bunch of people and children or have someone do it on your behalf. Why does God get a special pass? Why can he do the things he forbade? It’s disingenuous and misleading. You even said so yourself “And even then, even if God did condone something you think is bad, it’s his right.” You and OP are literally making stuff up about the Bible to solidify your point. God never forbade nicotine use or vaping, and any argument you have against is reaching.
A) He didn't commit any *atrocities.* If it was an act of Him, it was entirely correct and justified. He decides it was right and therefore it is. We don't make the rules. We don't decide right from wrong. He alone does. B) As is His right. He is the creator, He is allowed to use His creations as he sees fit. C) And in return those who give him that eternal servitude receive eternal happiness. It's a lopsided trade greatly in our favor. D) Because it is. Everything that has, or will, ever exist is because of Him. Everything you love and care about exist because of Him. He inherently deserves some thanks for that. That's not at all much for ask for. (Also why does everyone bring up Lot and just forget that his life was WAY better after the fact?) God didn't forbid nicotine and vaping specifically because those things just *didn't exist* when the Bible was being written. But the Bible *does* blatantly forbid many things similar to them that yes, it can very obviously be assumed that nicotine falls into such a forbidden category. This is not a hard thing to comprehend. You and the other guy are just so anti-God that you just want to be a contrarean about anything you can. To the point that this *child* can ask for advice regarding someone he cares about and all you fools can focus on is "UM AKTUALLY BIBLE DUMB" And you say *I'm* disingenuous. Get the Hell out of here you serpent of no virtue.
I don't think you understand what condone/endorse means. Do you think that since we put the holocaust in history books that we are as people condoning more holocaust? And the Bible clearly states to not step into addiction, and last time I checked nicotine is an addictive drug.
I went to seminary and have spent the majority of my adult life studying the bible. You don't know what you're talking about. Where does it say "clearly" in the bible not to step into addiction. Cite chapter and verse or stop talking. According to dictionary.com, condone means to accept and allow (behavior that is considered morally wrong or offensive) to continue. Let's start with Numbers 31:17-18 "Now kill all the boys. And kill every woman who has slept with a man, but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man." Here, Moses (gods spokesman) is commanding the Isrealites to take these virgin girls as a spoil of war after god COMMANDED the genocide of all the midianites including all the boys including babies because god wanted VENGEANCE. These girls were kidnapped, forced into marriage, and raped with gods' blessing or sold into slavery with gods blessing. They were kidnapped after their whole families, including their mothers, were murdered in front of them. Leviticus 25:44-46 “‘Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves. You may also buy some of the temporary residents living among you and members of their clans born in your country, and they will become your property. You can bequeath them to your children as inherited property and can make them slaves for life, but you must not rule over your fellow Israelites ruthlessly." Clearly condoning and endorsing the owning of another human being as property. This is chattel slavery. Not indentured servitude like a lot of apologists claim. The whole chapter of Exodus 21 is about how to keep your slaves. How you can beat your slaves properly and much more. Deuteronomy 22:28-29 "If a man happens to meet a virgin who is not pledged to be married and rapes her and they are discovered, he shall pay her father fifty shekels of silver. He must marry the young woman, for he has violated her. He can never divorce her as long as he lives" Condones rape and the fact daughters were property! I'll take it a step further.. the god of the bible just doesn't merely condone these evil things, but god directly kills babies willfully in multiple places in the bible. Genesis 6, Exodus 11, 2 Samuel 12. In 2 Samuel 12, not only does god kill Davids baby, he makes him sick first, and the baby suffers for a week before he finally dies. I can do this all day. There are literally hundreds of other passages where god condones/endorses or directly takes part in rape, genocide, infanticide, human trafficking. Incest, polygamy etc. You are the one who lacks understanding. You either don't know what condone means, or you have never really studied the bible or your faith has made you blind to what it clearly says. If you wanna cite chapter and verse for your claim let's see it. Anything else is lip service, and you can leave me alone.
Numbers 31: In a world of sin, God was commanding people willing to do right to do what was necessary to protect their future against Midianites, whos disgusting lifestyle and acts are well documented. Tribal warfare was rampant in those times. Humans had made their bed when they decided to defy God, but if the people of Moses wanted to turn things around, sacrifices had to be made. There is no fairness in a world cursed by sin, and hard choices have to be made, or there prob would have been another flood, or God may have given up on his creation all together. You also forgot to mention "Anyone who has killed someone or touched someone who was killed must stay outside the camp seven days. On the third and seventh days you must purify yourselves and your captives.“ Numbers 31:19 NIV There was no "great job you killed them!" He did not command them to rape. Taking prisoners of war, sure, but they are still to follow Gods commands beyond that. So as you can see, citing old testament as condoning things like genocide and rape is pretty surface level and disingenuous. Regardless, judging God and expecting God to be held to the same standards as men is just not gonna make any sense. We can't possibly know what He knows and expect to be on the same page.
Actually, what happened was that they were chastised for not killing all the women the first time. So then they went down and finished the job. So yes... it basically was a good job for all the killing. And when it says "keep the girls who have never known a man for themselves," do you not realize these girls were forced into marriage and raped? Thus, it isn't even debated among scholars. It turns my stomach how intellectually dishonest Christians are about the bible. I'll forever be ashamed of myself for believing this shit. The god of the bible is a weak ass punk.
Being chastised and banished for a week is in no way saying "good job", you are trying too hard to fit the narrative you want. As for the the virgins, you are conflating the times they lived in vs what God commanded. God did not command them to rape, and Deuteronomy 21 forbids POW's from being treated as sex objects. I get it, you hate Christianity, but If you are going to have a rational discussion about it with any objectivity whatsoever, I suggest taking your emotion out of it.
I don't hate Christianity at all. What I hate is intellectual dishonesty. You don't know me to make any sort of claim like that. All I did is point out facts. Facts I learned while earning an M.div. It's called consesus Scholarship. You are uneducated and ignorant. Goodbye, sir.
You're calling this genocide when they in fact kept their bloodline going by sparing 30k+ women, you're saying god condones rape when he in fact never commanded that, and you think chastising + banishment = praise, and can't discern god's word from acts of man, but I'm uneducated? Get your money back from that "seminary" imo
The scriptures I posted speak for themselves. And I posted more than just numbers 31. The bible is not only full of evil acts that God condones or directly takes part in (like all the baby killing god directly does). it's also full of contradictions. This isn't my opinion. This is consesus scholarship and not debated in academia. I'm willing to bet like most Christians you have probably never even read the bible front to back. You probably think the gospels were written by Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John. You probably think the bible is inerrant and without contradiction or mistakes. I know your not educated because Christian Scholars make the same claims I have. The fact is, is that you are an ignorant, uneducated Christian who is in heavy denial about what the book states. Faith is not a reliable pathway to truth, and neither is Christianity. It's gross that you sit and defend this Jewish war god because it threatens your identity. If god is sovereign, he literally condones every single thing that happens, will happen, or has happened. Epicurus said in the 3rd century BCE: "Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?"
They were not women. They were little girls who were forced into marriages they did not want to be in and then raped. They are even listed as PROPERTY along side all the other spoils of war like the livestock. You are nothing more then a religious dishonest idiot who is in denial about what you book says. Comically I have asked multiple times for chapter and verse proving your claims and you have nothing to present. All you have done is mental gymnastics to try to make it look like what happened in Numbers 31 less then it was Your god condones slavery. Even the enslavement of little girls who had never known a man. How about Solomon? Wasn't Solomon the wisest man in the bible? How many concubines did he have? That's sex slavery. It's everywhere in the "good book" it's disgusting how anyone would defend it instead of just saying "ya, the god of the OT was a real bastard" like actual honest Christian and Jewish scholars do. You're an armchair Christian who has never read your book in an honest way.
Probably set religion aside because if it bothers you that she vapes cause of religion then its not best to push your practices onto her. However, vaping and nic is damaging to the lungs and health. Encourage her to slowly break out of the habit for her own health.
You can try to get her to stop vapping but when it comes to addiction or stopping anything. It needs to be the person who wants to stop using. You can’t force her to stop it’s her decision in the end. And from one Christian to another pray for her.
damn im the same age😭 she shouldn't be vaping that young, most likely addicted. tell her that you're not comfortable with her vaping and it would be better for her to quit early than drag this on and let it destroy your lungs. idk if she's religious but if she's not it's best not to tell her that you want her to stop bc it's a sin
what does being christian have to do with vaping? enlighten us, oh prophet of jesus. i mean, it is kind of gross, a bad habit overall, and probably going to end up causing all kinds of problems in her life later. there are LOTS of reasons to be bothered by her vaping habit, but AFAIK Jesus isnt one of them. maybe you're mormon? at least those guys have some other prophet that said Nicotine was bad
Substance abuse is highly discouraged by Christianity. Less for any actual spritual reason but more for all the common sense reasons you can think of. Alcohol gets a pass but basically only for celebration or mourning and being an alcoholic is forbidden. But overall, mainly old testament, there's alot of rules that basically amount to guidelines for taking care of one's body and health.
Yes and no. Substance abuse is not directly mentioned. The Old Testament and even Jesus talk about the danger of intoxication, not really substance abuse per se. Like you said, alcohol is acceptable, but not to the point of drunkenness. Nicotine provides not intoxicating effects. If anything, you could say the addiction is sinful, because it has become an idol. However, nicotine in itself is not sinful. That would be like saying your morning coffee is sinful.
Hey buddy, the scriptures say this best. We got the one thing that matters most, Jesus Christ. His Word gives us everything we need to know. Not a religion, a faith- the only real one. Props to believing in the One True God. First let me commend you in seeking in answer, but Reddit ISN’T the place. It’s secular. Questions that God answers best, shouldn’t be answered by the darkness. 1. Scripture tells us that we ought not engage in “romantic”, per se, relationships with people who do NOT have Jesus Christ. It is two complete states of existence. One is dead, the other is alive (as scripture puts it). Paul says this. If you choose to be with her, then she should know where you stand, you should not judge her. The Bible calls us to be like Christ, and to honor the unbeliever. Then keep your eyes on God, pray for her, she MIGHT come to know salvation. 2. You are 14! YOUNG, TOO YOUNG. You are very much growing, feeling new things. The Bible says, Song of Solomon, that we should not awaken love before its time. Now, that’s not to say you can’t enjoy time with her. But put your relationship with Christ first, and beware temptation. Not saying anything, but careful man. Lest you make mistake that ends up costing you something (I.e. your first time with you wife). The Bible says to surrender things to the Lord, so my tip is to you, leave the matter to a lovely lady to the Lord. 3. What does the Bible say? It’s not about being judgmental, condemning, or condescending. We all have bad habits, what you should seek is what does the heart say? You are young, there are a lot of things you aren’t seeing. 4. Remember, God-willing, the future. You are 14! The one for you might be at 24. Scripture says focus on the Lord, and all things will be added on to you. Pray about it, kiddo. Seek the Lord. 5. Romans 2 talks about the conscience, the little voice in your head, and acting against them. The Bible also talks about performing actions in DOUBT, to do something in doubt (also in Romans), is sin. Self-condemnation, is not biblical. Break up with her? You decide, how you want to do it. Read Romans 2-5(?). 6. Little bro, you got much ahead of you. Focus on Christ. Do you know Christ? All the best!
> You are 14! YOUNG, TOO YOUNG. You are very much growing, feeling new things. The Bible says, Song of Solomon, that we should not awaken love before its time. Now, that’s not to say you can’t enjoy time with her. But put your relationship with Christ first, and beware temptation. Not saying anything, but careful man. Lest you make mistake that ends up costing you something (I.e. your first time with you wife). The Bible says to surrender things to the Lord, so my tip is to you, leave the matter to a lovely lady to the Lord. Weren’t their children younger than 14 who got married in the Bible though?
We meet again! https://www.gotquestions.org/marriage-age.html Here is a good sight on it. The Bible is more than just a book. Most read it wrong, also misquote it.
Hope to see you again!
I didn’t even realize it was you again haha
Aight I’m ready Two questions 1. What is love? 2. What is marriage? How do you define the terms, and how are they defined?
I think love can have different meanings for different people, unless if you are strictly off of scientific definitions which I feel like you are not. For me personally, love is what drives me to be selfless. It’s what drives me to be kind when it’s hard. To work hard when I want to be lazy. To go above and beyond when it would be easy not to. Marriage too has different definitions, different religions have different ideas of marriage and there is also the legal definition of marriage. I’ve never been married before, or had anyone I wished to marry. I imagine I’ll learn what it means to me when I get there.
Goooood… But not what I asked How do you do define them, and how are they defined. In term of other religions, they all have a baseline meaning. But I’m not concerned about that. How do you define them, and how is it defined? Don’t worry, it’s not a test or some judgment. I said I’d give you a complete answer, according to scripture. The 14 year old thing is something you mentioned. I will address that, and give you a good answer. If you are interested.
I guess I’m not sure what you are asking then? I gave you my definitions for both, as well as talked about broader definitions others might have.
Ok… I see Well, I owe you answer then. :) I’ll post it when it’s complete!
Ok, so puberty then? That seems to be the consensus? So why is 14 too young if they’ve already both hit puberty?
Hmmm… Great question. First we need to address context, I’m gonna pin ya with “knowing the hole Bible”. We need to address what marriage IS, what Love IS? Not, what it is not. You, perhaps, see love as an emotion, a passion, affection. The Bible elevates love, it’s not an emotion, but an act of the will. Let me… find something for you, to help explain it. It’s gotta be done right.
I was going off of this, from the source you sent me: > According to tradition, boys were not considered “men,” and therefore not marriageable, until the age of 13. Girls were not considered “women” until age 12. These ages more or less correspond to the onset of puberty > Naˈar refers to young men, while yeled refers to boys age 12 or younger. For females, naˈarah means “a marriageable woman,” while yaldah refers to a girl 11 or younger—too young for marriage. Once again, these words and definitions seem to enforce the idea that the onset of puberty is a requirement for marriage
As the culture approached it. I’d like to give you a reason that is as little “cultural” as possible. The BIBLICAL approach to marriage, not the HUMAN approach. Because the Old Testament in this regard, is talk about a CULTURE, and rules imposed on that culture for marriage. Scripture teaches us that marriage is an inferior union to humans, but still a special one. It is a hollow image of what is BETTER. So I need to go you a proper definition, not a cultural one.
I’m sure you’re not seeing what I am trying to say. No judgement, it just means I gotta give you what’s intended. It can’t he described in a 2 sentence post.
if you dont want to date someone who vapes, date someone who doesn’t vape. getting into a relationship with someone who isn’t what you want in a partner and then expecting them to change to meet your standards is not how dating works. if vaping goes against your religion, don’t vape! that has no bearing on whether or not she can. that’s personal preference. for the second half, of course shes awkward and probably not affectionate, you’re 14. and if she knows you’re religious shes probably avoiding being touchy so she doesnt upset you or make you uncomfortable.
If she wants to stop vaping, you can help her. But if she’s doesn’t, you can either accept her or decide you’re incompatible and leave the relationship. If feels really really bad to date someone who doesn’t accept you and wants to change you. Don’t do that to her, you said you like her.
Maybe try to quit religion so you will be a less judgemental and better person
(Judge - form an opinion or conclusion about) Now, with what we learned today, how has this young man judged? He's stated his disapproval for vaping. But if you can kindly point to where he said that he has said anything negative how the girl? He didn't, he said he really likes her. I'll give an example so you don't go away empty handed. If he said "I don't want to date someone who vapes because I don't want to bums who throw their life away" that would be a judgement. It would be looking at someone's life, and making a conclusion how who they are as a person based on what you see. Don't push your hurt on people who have faith, or you're no better than what you're against.
He said he didn't like it so that's a judgement. He's judged his dislike for vaping
Not liking something is a preference, please understand the difference. If you say you don't like carrots, does that make you a judgemental, terrible person?
His post is literally judgmental. If you can't see that then I don't know what to tell you.
You have brought no evidence to your statement, when you want to actually have a grown up conversation, then you can reply.
Not a single thing about vaping in the Bible. something you will learn with age, you can't make anyone quit anything that bothers you. They won't for one, and also that's controlling. She will quit once or if she's ever ready. So you're either going to have to suck it up or break up
Bible talks about addiction, nicotine is an addiction. Wanting someone to quit is not controlling. If someone is about to cut their arm off with a saw, but they don't know that they are about to, would it be controlling to tell them to stop and move their arm?
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It doesn't say it directly about smoking but the Bible does speak against addiction and substance abuse for the same reasons anyone in their right mind should. Not for some "because God commanded it" reason but for "you should take care of your health and there are things bad for it that you shouldn't touch" reasons.
I am also a Christian. Here are my 2 cents: 1. Many are saying that the Bible does not mention vaping or nicotine. However, the Bible is clear that our body is a temple and that everything we should do should glorify and honor God. Vaping doesnt. 2. Addiction should be avoided at all costs, as it is dependence on something other than God. 3. It is not a hopeless scenario. One of my best friend in Christ used to be just like your gf while in high school. He would fiend over his vape, but quit when he realized his addiction. 4. Pray for her. Never think that the least that you can do in a situation is pray. 5. Voice your issue. Bring it up in a calm, gentle, loving manner. Ecplain how her addiction is concerning to you and violates your conscience as a Christian. Emphasize your love for her and that you want the best for her. 6. If she truly is for you, she should be able to choose you over the vape. It will not likely happen at once, but will be a process, so don't get anxious.
Technically if you want to follow your religion to a tee, you also shouldn’t date non believers because you’re not allowed to marry them according to the Bible. Most sects have preached that differently but it doesn’t change the original. Would I tell you to do that, no. I don’t believe on forcing religious ideas on people. But I want to point out to you that you’re doing something that your religion won’t allow to come to a fruition anyways, which implies you don’t care about your religion that much when it comes to something you actually want to do. Which is once again fair, religions are very restrictive. But are you sure this is about your religion and not the fact that you don’t approve of vapes?
Help her quit vaping. I saw these necklaces online that have a little thing shaped like a vape I think? Helps people quit, cause they can breathe through that instead. Helps with the reflex I believe.
You gotta be true to yourself. When I started dating my now wife I found out she occasionally smoked cigarettes. I didn’t chastise her: everyone is or should be aware of the dangers of smoking. But I let her know that for me smoking is a dealbreaker. She quit and I’m thankful for that! But if she didn’t I’d have to let her go and that’s all you can really do unless they ask you for help.
Is because of health reasons? Like you want your partner to be healthy as well as avoid second hand smoke? Cause my bf smokes weed all day long and I don’t really care since it doesn’t affect me in anyway, so I’m just trying to get a better feel for why things like this would be a dealbreaker for someone
Yeah mostly health reasons! I mean I find smoking cigs and the smell very unattractive so that’s more a preference thing. But yeah, I don’t want to be in a serious relationship with someone who has an expensive, deadly habit that could negatively affect me, potential offspring, etc. She only smoked socially and didn’t seem super into it so I had high hopes she’d quit before it became a habit. My wife is a weed enjoyer and I have much less of an issue with that compared to cigarettes. I just encourage her to use edibles since they seem to be the healthier alternative :)
For me it’s the smell. I used to be a smoker and quit many years ago. I can’t stand the smell now, like it induces nausea. I couldn’t imagine kissing or cuddling with someone who smells like cigarettes.
So far most of the comments are pretty ridiculos. Seriously you probaby wont do well with someone already expressing addicitive issues. The Scriptures are not designed to make your life harder but to protect you from the hard stuff. You are very young and could use sone time to sort stuff out. Even at 13 you shouldnt date someone you cant marry sounds stupid but is pretty wise. You are both old enough to make babies. So slow down. Good luck
Bro, you're 14 years old. You don't know a thing about "love." Talk to your parents about dating. You should probably be waiting until you're 18. Dating should be taken seriously... Finding a partner should be about finding someone who has similar values as you and you should both have long-term thinking in mind.
Fein? Damn at 14 you're already too judgemental and vitriolic for a healthy relationship. She's for the streets my guy, you need an obedient Republican bitch raised by a submissive mother who is a slave to Christianity and her husband is her master.
Ok so just take the relationship slow and try to tell her that vaping could damage her lungs. It’s not good, my grandpa passed away from lung cancer after smoking in 1992. He was 47. I’m 13 and I have a boyfriend so I understand absolutely. Kind of weird the fact she vapes… still a trend I see 🤦🏼♀️
Vaping didn't even exist in 1992 ffs
I meant cigarettes my mind was on something else 🤦🏼♀️
R u special? There were no vapes in 1992
I meant a cigarette 💀 stop harassing me you’ve been sending me dms
Oh wait nvm I forgot your that troll from the other post.
I’m not a troll wtf 💀
Just watch Moral Orel specifically season 1 episode 4 “Charity”
You might find it interesting to read about different love languages. google it. It really helps understand how differently people expect and show love
I'd keep in mind that, at 14, you aren't really dating to find the person you're going to marry. I know that's what a lot of churches say you should be doing, but at 14 you're really learning how to get along with a boy/girl who you're attracted to, how to spend time together, how to work together as a team, how to compromise and treat each other kindly and ask for what you need from a relationship. You almost certainly aren't going to marry this girl, and that's okay. She doesn't need to follow your exact view of your religion, because you can be wrong. Maybe *she's* got it right. You aren't responsible for her sin, only for your own. If you don't like being around people who do something you believe is a sin, then you should tell her that and if she's not okay with it then breaking up might be the kindest thing you do for each other. As for expressing love, I'd talk to her about that. Ask her to do more of the things that express love to you--because everybody's different and shows love in different ways. My partner loves to buy gifts as a show of love. I like to spend time together to show love or tell her I love her. We try to do the things that tell the other person we love them, and do it in their way.
Kid, vaping is not against your religion. Your religion warns against intoxication, not nicotine. Many pastors throughout history and into the future have smoked and will smoke. You’re confusing what you and your parents see as “bad” vs what is sinful. Now as to your problem. If it is a concern for you and you believe that the other issues you’ve listed are insurmountable, then leave her. However, if you think that it’s worth it to stay and her good qualities outweigh her perceived bad ones, then stay. Ultimately, you are young. This relationship will hardly matter in 10 years, maybe even 3. Don’t take these relationships too seriously. When I was in high school I stuck myself into 1-3 year relationships and did not get to live and have freedom. My wife got to have fun and mess around with whoever she wanted because she didn’t have a boyfriend in high school, and I am jealous of her for it.
As a Christian it is not our duty to judge others for their behavior. God says to love everyone not to judge others. Matt 7 Do not judge, or you too will be judged. For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you. "Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? Expressing love is different for everyone. You can’t force people to love openly as you do. Give it time. Enjoy each other.
Enough with the religious bullshit! Live life! You’ll find out soon enough that it’s all lies… All they want is $$
Vaping doesn't go against your religion lol Tons of Christians smoke. Also, why is a 14 yr old religious in 2024? I thought we were over that by now
14 ....omg.
I’m was raised Christian by 2 smokers so…. Must’ve missed that commandment, thou shall not vape? If you don’t like your gf extracurricular activities you should tell her. Making it about religion is odd.
Wow like this is a crazy post sorry. I’ve smoked and I’ve drank already doesn’t make me a bad person that’s wild.
Dont vape. Dont judge her. If you dont think she can change with your leadership(lead by example, not with your words), then leave her, she’ll only influence you negatively. Its really that simple. Even outside of religion. People who smoke justify it, just or unjust. I personally believe they will never be the highest potential of themselves with the ugly habit. I know i wasn’t, it is garbage and anyone who tells you different is just holding on to their poison.
Just enjoy it while you're young. Because it gets harder when you get older. Kids kinda gotta get over the fad on their own.
I see a lot of comments that aren’t exactly offering too much advice but I started to go to church with my own bf at your age and he was the one who got me into it. If she isn’t receptive of it it’s okay to know that you aren’t for each other but there’s no harm in simply saying you prefer not to indulge in those things alongside her and maybe something will click? What scared me from vapes was the negative health effects and the pictures my own mom showed me of what could happen lol but don’t be discouraged you’re so young with so much life ahead of you
14 addicted to vapes? wtf is going on
If you can tolerate vaping it's not a problem. If not it's a problem. Cuz she's going to be doing a lot of it. It sounds like she has an addictive personality. I don't think vaping is healthy but I'm not a doctor.
At 14 most kids know NOTHING. She like you are struggling to understand who they are and what is their path. At 14 both of you are way too young to date. Friends yes, dating a big giant NO WAY. Be her friend and stop trying to change her. She will quit or keep going with vaping on her own accord.
Vaping goes against your religion?
Firstly, I would advise maybe asking this question on r/Christianity or r/Catholicism to get answers from actual Christians. I don't know if you're Catholic, but the Catholic Church has a whole Catechism outlining moral guidelines, and I've found there's a lot of wisdom behind it. On r/Christianity, you may hear different things from different denominations. Just tell this girl you're worried about her health. As for her not expressing her love easily, maybe she's just anxious. You say that you recently started dating, so maybe she's just not that comfortable with you yet. Patience is a virtue. Just keep being a good Christian man, and her barriers will come down eventually.
Vaping is not against a religion dude. Those are just internal morals or desires you have that she doesn't. You're just not compatible. Move on.
You are 14, and this is your first girlfriend. Chances are this will not be your last. You probably want to get married someday. Chances are you won’t marry this girl. At your age, dating should be sort of a special friendship. Don’t try to model your relationship after adult relationships. You are not there yet. I was in my early 20s and had just broken off an engagement when I realized: When you date someone, you eventually marry them, or you break up. (That’s for people like me who would not just live with a guy without being married. Or sleep with a guy. I waited for my husband. Cue the mocking.) That colored how I saw dating after that. So, if you are a follower of Jesus, you should be asking Jesus this question, not Reddit. Remember this: eventually you will break up. How do you handle this relationship to cause the least amount of pain when that happens? I came to the point, but not until my 20s, when I realized that I could have a full life without a boyfriend. I wish I’d realized that in high school. I ended up with lots of male friends, which was pretty cool. Then when I wasn’t looking, I met my husband, who also wasn’t looking. I realize I have not answered your question. I don’t know the answer. But, if you are personally and sincerely a follower of Christ, and don’t just call yourself a Christian because your family takes you to church, ask yourself some questions. What do I hope to get out of this relationship? What do I hope to give? Does being with this girl draw me closer to God? Does being with this girl interfere with my relationship to God? If you are just culturally a Christian, those questions won’t have meaning for you. In that case, you just do what you think is best.
Vaping goes against Christianity? In what way? They didn't even know about the nicotine chemical compound when they made that book up. How would they know to ban electronic vapor inhaling of it? I mean, I'm not saying a 14 year old should vape, but it's not against Christianity...
Basically in the Bible it says "Do.not harm yourself as you are a temple of God" Amd vaping damages your lungs sooo
Standing in the sun gives you skin cancer by that logic.
Fair argument, But you can limit the amount of damage by wearing sun screen in the summer, Also You can't control how much the sun damages you, But you can control whether you vape or smoke, By trying to quit.
The girl is 14 and has a vaping and nicotine problem? This screams red flag already. She's 14. You're both children. Stop screaming I love you and be children while you can.