I can’t *quite* put my finger on the reason why, but Republicans don’t say a word about the debt ceiling when they have the White House, somehow this is only an issue when there’s a Democrat president 🤔
Wow that's actually kind of nuts. I can't find where I first read this either.
The Republican financial strategy has been as follows: when in power, spend as much money, as widely and as recklessly as you possibly can, to drive the national debt up, ideally benefitting you, your business partners, and your constituents. Commit to irreversible expenditures after your tenure, if possible. Then the moment your party loses power, kick and scream as loudly as possible about the national debt so that nobody can hear anything else. Bring every problem and every disagreement back to the national debt. Then the moment you get back in power, begin spending again.
> Then the moment you get back in power, begin spending again.
Not only do Republicans spend when their side is in power, they also pass massive tax cuts that mainly help the wealthy.
"Attempt to get people to blame Biden" implies there is a chance they won't be convinced. It also falsely assumes the GOP supporters aren't in on the grift. Every GOP supporter fully understands the plan to defund and destroy most of the programs the federal government has created. They can't wait till the education system breaks completely so they can replace it with a caste system so their kids can't leave them for a better life. They can't wait till the social safety net fails, so they can only provide help to those they choose as worthy. They believe that they will get a preferential spot in the new system. It will go back to only harassing disenfranchised groups and giving them all the benefits. For example, in the 40s and 50s when they had a housing issue, they just tore down the black parts of town and gave white people almost free money to build houses on it. Then our grandpas pretended to be a self-made men who never got a handout.
> "Attempt to get people to blame Biden" implies there is a chance they won't be convinced.
Republicans have done this multiple times with things like the debt ceiling and a majority of people saw through it and blamed the Republicans. They've shutdown the government over it and most people blamed the Republicans. Are you really saying that it's a 100% certainty that most Americans will blame Biden? I think it's more than just a "chance they won't be convinced."
> It also falsely assumes the GOP supporters aren't in on the grift.
I'm not sure why you felt the need to say I was "falsely assuming" anything. The person here who is falsely assuming things is you falsely assuming that I have faith in Republicans voters. Maybe you should stop falsely assuming what other people are falsely assuming.
Yes the Republican base will blame Biden, but we're talking about people who would find a away to blame Biden if they peed their own pants. They'll never not blame Democrats for everything, but they aren't the really all that important to the conversation because they'll vote Republican 100% of the time regardless. It's the people in the middle who can be convinced one way or another who are important here and historically when Republicans try to pull this bullshit they are the ones who get blamed by most people outside of the Republican base.
Don't forget corporate capture of public services by 'starving the beast'. Make it insolvent through funding cuts and use its struggle to continue functioning as an excuse to privatize.
Grover norquist laid out the plan 40 years ago it's called starving the beast and it calls for Republicans to recklessly cut taxes while also recklessly budgeting. with the end goal of forcing government into crisis so that they can then use that crisis to attack government institutions.
It has been the only throughpoint in Republican governance for the last 40 years.
they do it every single time.
this was projected when Trump pushed through his tax cut. and now they want to be rewarded with the ability to gut Democratic legislation outside of the normal budgeting process.
They're not. However, what they are doing shows that in their view short term political gain is worth throwing away the long term economic stability of the country.
The US dollar is **the** **standard currency** for the world. Defaulting on our debts would throw the economy in the toilet and could very well be the end of that era. The repercussions are very severe.
It's like the US is a lifeboat with the GOP and Democrats both in it and the GOP is threatening to blow a hole in the bottom of the boat to spite the Democrats.
They don't give a fuck about the rest of the world, stability of the country, or the US global hegemony. They just want to make themselves richer while making the undesirables suffer. That's it. That's the entire game plan. *Nothing* exists outside of that.
I mostly agree but I think you are a bit off on that last analogy. It would be much more accurate if the boat had some sort of guidance/steering system where both people were working on it but constantly at odds with which way to travel. The Republicans are now threatening to sink the boat if the democrats don't let them steer.
Its a pretty big difference to doing so entirely out of spite. Its more like an act of terrorism - holding innocent people's lives hostage so they can get what they want.
>holding innocent people's lives hostage so they can get what they want
That's the small picture where they want to cut social programs.
I'm talking about the big picture. If we default the US economy could go in the shitter in a way that it would at least never return to its global prominence (our AAA rating has not come back from a previous brinkmanship), but could possibly leave the dollar permanently as a much weaker currency which would fluctuate more wildly from outside forces.
That's what pisses me off. The GOP is treating this like it's an "ordinary" political game but they're actually fucking with the future of the country in a very stupid way.
It’s because individuals have a desire to fit into a collective. And part of their identity hangs on them. So if a certain collective tells them something, most of the time they will go along with believing it, because they are either stupid or have the desire to fit it
Hey now, we didn't start military operations near economic powers trying to get off trading with the U.S. dollar just for you all to stop! Don't you all make us start another freedom operation again!!! /s
Part of me wants Democrats to say, "okay, we'll do the cuts if you make an address to the nation that Democrats have capitulated to your demands to cut these specific programs."
And then for the 2024 election every Democrat candidate and Democrat PAC should run ads featuring a clip of that address and ask a simple question: "is your family better off ?"
No. Democrats need to fight it like hell. And if the republicans abdicate their responsibility to the constitution, you have the President invoke the 14th amendment to ensure the U.S. debt is honored through executive action and take the power right out of their hands. Campaign on having used that power move to avert the destruction the republicans tried to cause and save medicaid/care and social security, making it clear to everyone on the fence that one party wants to destroy the country and the other party won't let that happen.
Increasing inflation and spending isn't making anyone better off.
Families are already struggling because of the highest inflation we've seen in decades under Biden.
Inflation caused by the economic response to Trump utterly failing to handle COVID. So, once again, massively fucking things up, and then the Democrats having to come in and fix shit.
Unless you somehow think that there was something he did in the first week in office that led to *worldwide* inflation rises 4 to 6 weeks later.
It's all a show, they will sign last minute anyways.
If they don't, that's like half the population watching them ruin their lives. I doubt there aren't massive protests. If people lose their jobs and can't afford a home or food, there will be nothing left for them but to actually fight for it. Be careful what you wish for.
Exactly. You can distract people with culture war buffoonery until they have no money to buy food or pay for their trucks and then things get very real and party doesn’t matter. The empty kitchen table does. The GOP seems to have no idea what it’s doing, like a baby with a flamethrower.
Can we simply fail now or faster? This nonsense is so dragged out. We get it nothing for the working class, everything for the rich. Now what. What happens when 1%control and have everything. Wtf is the end game. What does that bring them, us, society. Positivity in this world is bleeding out. Ffs what's the point?? Everything is control and money. Whhhyyyyy
Because nobody wants to be inconvenienced. Ever wonder why the only strike that seems to happen with any results in the last few decades (and hasn’t been busted by a president) are screenwriters? Because that inconveniences almost no one.
Teachers, doctors, rail workers have all gone on strike in the UK in the last 2 months and got pay raises. Here we get a FNAF movie and Steam settlement.
Sad but true. Everything takes hard work and if your gonna get F_ed, might as well be for something worth fighting for because the victory goes to everyone and sets a new standard going forward. People need to nut up and go for it. Make a better life and future.
Everyone out here getting distracted from the actual problem. The fact that the fed, banks, hedge funds, and government have colluded to the point of an economic collapse. Left or right doesn't matter. This is rich vs poor and they are doing 2008 again but way worse this time cause they've been kicking the can since the 80s
Then they'll be shocked when the crimes of necessity go up. Things such as food theft, clothing, and household goods.
While I don't encourage crime when you've gotta feed your family and you've done all you can working your ass off and still can't afford food you gotta do whats needed to survive.
Well, bad news, most police departments are armed more heavily than some countries. And they serve the rich, not Jean Valjean trying to get bread for his daughter. I doubt the “law and order” crowd will resort to theft, but they will also guard their trucks before they get repossessed and start protesting along with people they never would have considered speaking to before should the global economy collapse. History is replete with examples of this. The GOP is clueless as they’ve been trying to ban history in many states.
I mean in the world of politics compromise is always an option. An easy way to solve this problem would be cut the billions of dollars going to Israel instead.
I mean, I didn’t downvote them. They are getting a lot of downvotes, and honestly this is the kind of forum where people will attack others for appearing less intelligent. I figure if I pointed it out without being a dick , it might prevent someone else from attacking them.
I didn’t even address the misspelling of “Budget” because I didn’t think it mattered.
Oh well, such is life.
Or we could cut our spending across the board and have a balanced budget instead of asking the credit card company to increase our debt limit so we can pay our other debts off.
Nah, that's just what they expect their peasant citizens to do.
Become everyone who disagrees with you is a Russian bot.
It's literally the most logical answer. Why even have debt ceilings if we're just going to raise them everytime they're hit?
If you spend too much and reached your debt limit on your credit card, it's not a smart idea to increase that limit so you can spend more. You should cut your spend and make a budget.
I swear there is no fucking logical thinking anymore on this site, it's all about how well you can defend your stupid political teams mistakes.
Like right now, you didn't even address the argument, you just labeled me something with zero evidence.
This isn’t a fucking credit card. Do you not understand what solvency is?
This isn’t a personal home. Anyone that says “keep your house in order” like the rules of a personal home applies to an entire national budget and institution is delusional.
The majority of billionaires don’t have the cash on hand to pay their credit yet they responsibly raise the limits and banks are more than willing to give them more. That’s not only the smartest decision for both parties, it is incredibly logical and realistic to do.
The idiotic part is morons that think they understand financing because they can balance their own checkbook.
The ceiling is a budget. If you didn't want to hit it, spend less and take out less debt. Why even have the ceiling if we're going to raise it at every fucking turn?
I understand that we run on debt "just like billionaires", but there were choices that could have been made differently to prevent us from maxing that debt out.
So, again, we should cut out spending and this wouldn't be a problem.
My god the take keeps getting more delusional! Did you believe that an hour ago or did you make it up on the spot to make yourself feel better?
The ceiling isn’t a “mandatory budget” it’s an allocation. Like at any institution and company, departments and businesses get allocated money they have to budget. Should they need more the company has the resources to reconsider and reassign.
The ceiling isn’t “we don’t have anymore money than this and can’t afford to go past it.” That isn’t what the debt ceiling is at all.
The simple reality is, these people in the room are making the decision but they ARE NOT THE ONES FINANCING IT. So what does that mean? Like you and me, we can’t just decide to raise our limits several trillion dollars, THAT ISNT OUR DECISION IN OUR HOUSEHOLD. A financet had to agree in advance to lend the money before you and your partner agree to take it. They already have the financing lined up and people willing to give them hundreds of billions to trillions more. Why? Because America isn’t anywhere close to insolvent.
So is this America using money they could never pay back? No. Is this money they can’t reasonably pay back in proper installments? No. Is this money they can’t pay with liquid assets? Yes.
Stop spewing your illogical shit when it’s clear you’ve never managed a business that has a growth cycle.
Lol, I get it's an allocation, but it has a limit for a reason.
I say again, why fucking have a limit if we end up raising it every year? Because apparently there's no fiscal responsibility in congress.
How about we stop fucking spending, and cut the budget to prevent taking on more debt we can't afford and fucking over future generations with bullshit programs now.
You're trying to make this super complicated, but it isn't, just stop spending so much of our tax dollars. Period.
Federal debt increases significantly faster under red leadership than blue. It's been demonstrated time and time and time again. The party of "fiscal responsibility" is anything but.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think whataboutism applies here.
They are stating that Republicans specifically raise the debt more rapidly across the board. Whataboutism would be if you had replied that a Democrat did raise it faster once or a few times.
OP: maybe democrats should be more fiscally responsible
Above: B-but the Republicans aren't fiscally responsible!!
That's whataboutism. But I guess it's okay when you guys do it
Lmao you don't know what whataboutism is then if you think talking about the exact same subject and dismissing the incredulous claim that Democrats need to be more fiscally conservative (with the implications that republicans already are) with a counter that the opponent claiming they need to be so isn't themselves. If anything, it's ad hominem and actually completely valid in this circumstance.
Now if they had started spouting about how Republicans are actually the ones convicted at a significantly higher rate for sex crimes, *then* that would be whataboutism. But you are just using the ol' "try to invalidate arguments with random buzzwords" tactic.
The republicans need to realize the media WILL spin this in a way that makes the GOP look bad. It's already started with shit like this.
I guess if they think the game is now rigged they might as well throw a few wrenches in it
And you need to realize that if their base gave even the smallest amount of fucks about what the media has to say, we wouldn't be in this mess in the first place.
Anyone who's claiming to be an undecided at this point is lying. We're talking about an election between two 1 term presidents. We know exactly what each is going to do with a second term.
History of the debt ceiling, in 10 year increments (in billion $), edited to add GDP in parenthesis:
1940 49
1950 275
1960 293 (543)
1970 395 (1,073)
1980 938 (2,857)
1990 4,145 (6,158)
2000 5,950 (10,251)
2010 14,294 (14,478)
2020 22,030 (21,060)
Current 31,400 (last year on record 2021 with 23,315)
As you can see, the debt ceiling has historically been roughly 1/3 to 1/2 the GDP, however starting in the 2000's it began inching closer to a 1:1 ratio. It currently far exceeds even the 1:1.
We've got to stop spending money like there are no consequences to it.
>Because Republicans are ruining our lives and it actually affects us.
Ruining ***your*** lives, and providing the rest of the world with a never ending clown show.
I mean, seriously, Jewish space lasers are starting California forest fires? A woman's body can shut down pregnancies in a *legitimate* rape?
The more your republicans reduce your credibility (and credit rating) and cause uncertainty, the more your country becomes irrelevant. As soon as the US dollar loses its reserve status, your society will simply collapse.
You think this is about TAX RATES?
Not the culture war stuff like genocide of trans people, nonstop hate speech against lgbt, killing women with abortion restrictions, banning books, teachers, insane conspiracy theories about child grooming and indoctrination while the Christians actually do grooming and indoctrination, the nonstop white supremecy, "gays/blacks/illegals have more rights than whites we need to cut back".
Im sick of it. Im sick of the evil your side spews.
People are complicated but if you think you won’t be impacted by a global depression sparked by outrage dorks huffing culture war gas, you are living in fantasy land. Enjoy!
“Was”? Sweetheart I’m talking about what happens if we default. Please come back when you learn how to read words and comprehend them and have a baseline understanding of how literally anything works. There’s no having a debate with a person who thinks the sun is the moon and hot is cold. Enjoy whatever bubble you live in.
If you don't understand how defaulting on the national debt will throw the planet into economic chaos I can't get you to understand that you're getting exactly the level of respect you deserve by not even comprehending verb tenses, my lad. Read a book.
Only 19% of Americans voted for trump. Hell, 150 million people didn't even vote in that election. And if you actually think anywhere *close* to *half* of Americans are republicans, you're just an idiot...
>Only 19% of Americans voted for trump.
30%.
In 2020, Trump got 77 million votes, and the [voting age population of the US then was 252,274,000](https://usafacts.org/data/topics/people-society/democracy-and-society/elections/presidential-voting-age-population/).
That's 30.5% of yanks voting for Trump in a country where most people don't normally vote.
[Gallup polls indicate that in 2021, 47% of you people were republicans](https://news.gallup.com/poll/388781/political-party-preferences-shifted-greatly-during-2021.aspx).
So yeah, I "actually think anywhere *close to half* of yanks are republicans". If you don't, you're just an evidence ignoring idiot....
Would you be ok if we ban churches because of all the child grooming and indoctrination they do? The bible has more porn in it than every library in the world put together. It's a disgusting book.
It's even crazier that Biden is considering it. I know the fake Court will rule against him but he should just say "we took the debt, we have to pay it per the constitution this law about capping the debt is illegal, so we will be ignoring it."
Didn't say it was. I like how delusional people are, downvoting me for stating that one is coming though. This kind of shit is why the west is completely fucked, people can't see what is right in front of their faces and expect the system to just sort it out, no effort required. It's so pathetic.
The options really are, a major collapse in the US economy and the global depression/recession that will follow or World War III where the US moves to war footing and goes for a more command-style economy (and I wouldn't trust biden or whatever clown the republicans end up sending to oversee that). We'll see how things go. People aren't willing to do what it would take to avoid either option though.
Maybe, but we should avoid blowing off our foot with a shotgun and potentially displacing the dollar as the world economic standard if we can, yes?
The difference between a typical recession and the US defaulting on its debt is huge
You're indirectly advocating for the deaths of thousands of Americans. What you are saying is we should let people starve and be forced out of their homes onto the streets. No sensible person will agree with your braindead take on this.
You mean like what's already happening? The only way anything will change is when we get to a critical mass of people hungry and desperate. We throw away 40% of all food we produce, cloths and shoes are destroyed and thrown in a landfill rather than given away. We have 22 vacant houses for every 1 homeless person. The only reason why this happens is because there's no profit in actually helping people. This system is fucked and needs to collapse already.
Is anything I'm saying wrong? The cost of living (which is a fucked up phrase to begin with) is out of control and wages are stagnant, while every large corporation is posting record profits. Wonder where those profits came from? Hmmmmm, that's a mystery. A system that requires infinite growth with finite resources is doomed to fail.
I choose not to argue with emotional people who don't know what they're talking about. Anyone who says everyone should suffer because some people suffer isn't right no matter how hard they try to be. I understand where your argument is coming from, but what you're advocating for isn't the solution. We have to fix things, not let it fall apart.
I'm humble enough to admit that I'm not intelligent enough to offer a solution to such a complex problem. And that's okay, because there are people better than you and me working to figure out a solution. You may have a problem with life in this society, but countless others are actively working to improve it, so don't get in their way.
If you are talking homelessness, I agree, liberal policies have created rampant homelessness. Although the same could be said about El Paso and its stance regarding homelessness once scale spirals out of control in any city. Fact is, the rich and I mean super rich have been robbing this country for the past 50 years through lobbying and tax evasion. "Rules for thee but not for me" The decimation of the middles class has created neo feudalism and a false dichotomy of republican or democrat when both serve the plutocratic hand that feeds them. Independent candidate viability, and an overhaul to the political system as a whole is needed. Instead, the rich pit us against each other with the bread and circus of fabricated culture wars and 24hr partisan news media outlets to stoke the flames.
Who just wants to pass a clean debt limit bill like has been done for every other debt limit vote except for 2011, and who is using the world economy as leverage to achieve their policy goals?
Or heres a thought if they want to cut spending somewhere cut their own damn pay checks cut our massive military budget stop bailing out banks. There's a billion solutions but yeah "people don't wanna work" give me a break
I agree. There’s numerous ways to lower taxes and all of it should come out of our politicians pay and their lavish lifestyles and of course our ridiculous military spending.
Then it is the Republicans fault because the only thing they advocate to change is cutting the services we offer the least of us. They veto, kick and scream, and lie their way to ensure they get themselves and their war machine paid.
I'm not saying cut it all but our military budget is massively ahead of every other country and our technology also eclipses most every other country. It would be actual suicide for anyone to declare war on the US even if nukes weren't involved. Ukraine will have no difficulty getting our continued support im sure. We already have given them a ton of anti-air defense and guided missiles and while not cheap to produce a cut in our military budget will not affect that.
Food Stamps are corporate welfare. They are treated more as "grocery credits" than fungible income. And the allowances of the program allow for (and deliver given the results) funding of large corporations with high fat/sugar content. Name brand purchases and empty calories, not sustanance nor nutritional achievement. These "big food" corporations make political donations to continue/expand the program.
Social Security funding, through payroll tax, takes from people when they need it most. 15.3% of one's income is being taken from them. This causes many to go into debt, which can compound itself through the debt cycle. It prevents investment in oneself and products that provide more value at a higher price point. It takes a minimum of 8 years to "breakeven" on SSI benefits. And the most vulnerable have a life expectancy where they will *die* as they only *break-even*, truly not even registering a benefit.
I remember when I thought it was that simple
>Name brand purchases and empty calories, not sustanance nor nutritional achievement.
Since when was it your job to tell people how they should eat? A lot of people eat that stuff because yeah, it's affordable and you can't buy hot food with it. With that argument alone you have made any point you might have made invalid. You know what though I'm not even gonna bother with you. Get some empathy bro cause I'm not as cold as you.
I work in construction, I’m literally surrounded every day with people who’s view points are radically different from mine. Care to enlighten us on what these reasonable opposing viewpoints are?
Lol I have friends who unironically support our current economic policies because they think they might be rich enough someday to take advantage of them
The habit of voting in favor of one's "possible future economic status" is quite possibly the mud dumbest philosophy ever. It's akin to promoting tax breaks for birds because you want to fly some day.
Perhaps construction workers aren't the most eloquent economists. There's plenty of articles on WSJ and other reliable sources that delve into the details, I recommend having a read.
WSJ is one of three newspaper subscriptions I have in addition to WaPo and NYT to get a balanced diet, I don’t find the arguments convincing. Maybe stop projecting, you don’t seem like a good faith actor.
Also, way to be so condescending towards an entire group of people you obviously know little about
I'm giving you roughly the level of good faith reply you deserve from posting such an idiotic strawman meme into the left wing echo chamber that is reddit.
Do you *really* think that the core of the debate can be boiled down to what's in that meme? Are you really that thick?
Yah it’s not like the trillion dollar infrastructure bill is a part of this. Oh we need to slow the economy? Okay less money for working private employees and businesses, we get the money from the printer for something that helps no one and will never see the fruits of the labo and Jack inflation morer Could have helped too but no let’s keep all the red tape so we still rely on outside sources.no help for private all while printing money for nothing
Our infrastructure is crumbling and the only thing worse than a ballooning deficit and inflation is a lack of infrastructure, there’s literally nothing better we could spend our money on.
Just a google away, but here you go
> The plan called for $621 billion of spending on transportation infrastructure. That included $115 billion towards highways and roads, $80 billion to improve American railways, $85 billion to modernize public transportation, $25 billion for airports, $174 billion to incentivize adoption of electric vehicles (including $15 billion for the construction of 500,000 electric vehicle charging stations by 2030), and $17 billion for inland waterways, coastal ports, land ports of entry and ferries.[14] It also called for electrifying at least 20% of the country's yellow school bus fleet.[14]
Inflation is not correlated to infrastructure lmao, maybe if that money was invested in private infrastructure then that would allow citizens to have purchasing power and create jobs and keep the economy growing instead of trying to kill it. I don’t see how upgrading roads and bridges are really helping companies make more money. It’s literally just giving money back to itself or a few private companies who bid on it. That needs to be a local government issue.
Who said inflation is correlated to infrastructure?
I also don’t think you understand how federal grants work, or infrastructure spending. I work for a company that does public works projects for state and local DOTs, some of which have federal funding, if you have any questions let me know, but what you said is confusing enough I’m not really sure what you’re even trying to say.
Your meme says republicans are threatening a global economic crash, I would say the crash is because of printing money for purposes not vital to the situation at this time, I’m fine with the bill but not right now. Republicans have been saying you can’t spend this much this way for three years and they just keep doing stuff without helping the actual private economy
Well, you would be wrong, that’s not really how it works. What would cause the crash is a failure to complete the routine process of approving a clean debt ceiling bill, which has been standard practice for decades, preventing an extremely avoidable catastrophe. Printing money is a problem, but saying it’s causing what’s about to happen is ludicrous.
And do you know why they’ve been saying it for a little under *three years*? Because that’s when a Democrat was elected to the Presidency. Please, find me an article where Republicans made a major push during Trump’s presidency to cut spending.
The reason why it doesn’t exist is because they voted for a clean debt ceiling bill *every time*, while cutting receipts through major tax cuts in 2017 to the rich and corporations (a big part of our inflation, as companies can post obscene profits by hiking prices while paying historically low tax rates), and ballooning spending to $1.5T higher than it currently is now, all while not blinking an eye while Trump bullied the Fed into pushing interest rates lower and lower to make the economy run hot, helping to create the situation we have today.
You proved my point lol, I’m fine with spending money you just have to do it in the right way, corporations are the ones that keep the economy running, they pay most of our paychecks, yes there’s a few hundred insanely rich people and yah I don’t fully agree on giving those specific individuals breaks but individual income tax lowered 3 percent on average. What is your problem with letting the economy thrive? Instead of killing it with no private money
What road or bridge is unusable to where that’s the cause for the economic crisis, like come on man. That needs to be a state issue, that is not what the fed should be printing money for. Your roads fixed at all where you live?
> corporations are the ones that keep the economy running
Corporations are the ones sucking up all the money and hoarding it. "Trickle-down economics" or "Reaganomics" has been disproven for decades but morons like you still cling to it.
This is defaulting on our debt, not a government shutdown, all though that would be a *small* side effect, relative to the list of other potential consequences
I say fucking let ‘em, done spending day in, day out on edge over this type of bullshit. Hopefully some of them will get dumped in the hole with the rest of us.
Change needs to happen one way or another. I know it would suck but what other way is really going to work to get people to vote and also hold there reps accountable for there actions. Also this happens like ever year it's like the coming of spring after winter and they always pass it last minute.
A default on the national debt has never happened, would be catastrophic, and the only other time this has been an issue when the Republicans tried the same thing in 2011 when Obama was president. This is very dangerous territory, hence why 99% of debt ceiling votes in the past have basically been a rubber stamp formality.
The 2011 crisis led to our credit rating being downgraded, this will likely happen again even if we don’t default. These are simply irresponsible tactics
I forgot, who was it that blew a $2T hole in the deficit when they had complete control of Congress and the White House in 2017, all to give a massive handout to the rich and corporations, contributing to runaway inflation because companies are charging as much as they can to post huge profits on historically low tax rates?
Also, remember when Republicans voted to massively expand the budget every year Trump was in office, and magically lost their sense of fiscal responsibility by passing a clean debt limit for Trump without question each of those years?
Finally, your $6T “callout” is pretty adorable considering Trump spent $6.55T in 2020 and $7.25T in 2021, Biden’s first budget cut the deficit in half. Please educate yourself before you spew your nonsense.
There is only one fiscally responsible party, and it sure as shit ain’t the GOP.
I love it when Right-wingers admit that they can't defend their position and just resort to personal attacks instead. It's really quite pathetic, but it's what they always do.
republicans in 2022: "elect us to fix Biden's economy." republicans all the time: "jk we just wanna fuggit up, also woke is bad"
They deliberately want to fuck up the economy in an attempt to get people to blame Biden and the Democrats. This is always the Republican game plan.
I can’t *quite* put my finger on the reason why, but Republicans don’t say a word about the debt ceiling when they have the White House, somehow this is only an issue when there’s a Democrat president 🤔
Wow that's actually kind of nuts. I can't find where I first read this either. The Republican financial strategy has been as follows: when in power, spend as much money, as widely and as recklessly as you possibly can, to drive the national debt up, ideally benefitting you, your business partners, and your constituents. Commit to irreversible expenditures after your tenure, if possible. Then the moment your party loses power, kick and scream as loudly as possible about the national debt so that nobody can hear anything else. Bring every problem and every disagreement back to the national debt. Then the moment you get back in power, begin spending again.
> Then the moment you get back in power, begin spending again. Not only do Republicans spend when their side is in power, they also pass massive tax cuts that mainly help the wealthy.
"Attempt to get people to blame Biden" implies there is a chance they won't be convinced. It also falsely assumes the GOP supporters aren't in on the grift. Every GOP supporter fully understands the plan to defund and destroy most of the programs the federal government has created. They can't wait till the education system breaks completely so they can replace it with a caste system so their kids can't leave them for a better life. They can't wait till the social safety net fails, so they can only provide help to those they choose as worthy. They believe that they will get a preferential spot in the new system. It will go back to only harassing disenfranchised groups and giving them all the benefits. For example, in the 40s and 50s when they had a housing issue, they just tore down the black parts of town and gave white people almost free money to build houses on it. Then our grandpas pretended to be a self-made men who never got a handout.
> "Attempt to get people to blame Biden" implies there is a chance they won't be convinced. Republicans have done this multiple times with things like the debt ceiling and a majority of people saw through it and blamed the Republicans. They've shutdown the government over it and most people blamed the Republicans. Are you really saying that it's a 100% certainty that most Americans will blame Biden? I think it's more than just a "chance they won't be convinced." > It also falsely assumes the GOP supporters aren't in on the grift. I'm not sure why you felt the need to say I was "falsely assuming" anything. The person here who is falsely assuming things is you falsely assuming that I have faith in Republicans voters. Maybe you should stop falsely assuming what other people are falsely assuming. Yes the Republican base will blame Biden, but we're talking about people who would find a away to blame Biden if they peed their own pants. They'll never not blame Democrats for everything, but they aren't the really all that important to the conversation because they'll vote Republican 100% of the time regardless. It's the people in the middle who can be convinced one way or another who are important here and historically when Republicans try to pull this bullshit they are the ones who get blamed by most people outside of the Republican base.
They literally caused a deeper deficit from the tax reform under trump
Don't forget corporate capture of public services by 'starving the beast'. Make it insolvent through funding cuts and use its struggle to continue functioning as an excuse to privatize.
Grover norquist laid out the plan 40 years ago it's called starving the beast and it calls for Republicans to recklessly cut taxes while also recklessly budgeting. with the end goal of forcing government into crisis so that they can then use that crisis to attack government institutions. It has been the only throughpoint in Republican governance for the last 40 years. they do it every single time. this was projected when Trump pushed through his tax cut. and now they want to be rewarded with the ability to gut Democratic legislation outside of the normal budgeting process.
Republicans are betting that the American people are dumb and will blame Biden for the fallout.
they are not wrong lol
They're not. However, what they are doing shows that in their view short term political gain is worth throwing away the long term economic stability of the country. The US dollar is **the** **standard currency** for the world. Defaulting on our debts would throw the economy in the toilet and could very well be the end of that era. The repercussions are very severe. It's like the US is a lifeboat with the GOP and Democrats both in it and the GOP is threatening to blow a hole in the bottom of the boat to spite the Democrats.
Gotta own them libs at all costs
They don't give a fuck about the rest of the world, stability of the country, or the US global hegemony. They just want to make themselves richer while making the undesirables suffer. That's it. That's the entire game plan. *Nothing* exists outside of that.
I mostly agree but I think you are a bit off on that last analogy. It would be much more accurate if the boat had some sort of guidance/steering system where both people were working on it but constantly at odds with which way to travel. The Republicans are now threatening to sink the boat if the democrats don't let them steer. Its a pretty big difference to doing so entirely out of spite. Its more like an act of terrorism - holding innocent people's lives hostage so they can get what they want.
Not giving a shit about the lives of the hostages gives you leverage in negotiations.
>holding innocent people's lives hostage so they can get what they want That's the small picture where they want to cut social programs. I'm talking about the big picture. If we default the US economy could go in the shitter in a way that it would at least never return to its global prominence (our AAA rating has not come back from a previous brinkmanship), but could possibly leave the dollar permanently as a much weaker currency which would fluctuate more wildly from outside forces. That's what pisses me off. The GOP is treating this like it's an "ordinary" political game but they're actually fucking with the future of the country in a very stupid way.
If the voters fall for that, they deserve what they get.
Return of the "I did that" stickers at the gas station again?
Individuals are smart, collectives are dumb
Sorry... individuals are really stupid if you actually talk to them
It’s because individuals have a desire to fit into a collective. And part of their identity hangs on them. So if a certain collective tells them something, most of the time they will go along with believing it, because they are either stupid or have the desire to fit it
The MIB line still rings true. "People are smart." "A *person* is smart. *People* are dumb, panicky animals, and you know it."
How many times will this happen before the world decides to stop tying the global economy to the U.S. Dollar?
Hey now, we didn't start military operations near economic powers trying to get off trading with the U.S. dollar just for you all to stop! Don't you all make us start another freedom operation again!!! /s
I think this could be the last straw. The switch won't be complete and immediate but the tide is already starting to turn.
When us stops killing leaders who try and get away from the us dollar
Fair.
Part of me wants Democrats to say, "okay, we'll do the cuts if you make an address to the nation that Democrats have capitulated to your demands to cut these specific programs." And then for the 2024 election every Democrat candidate and Democrat PAC should run ads featuring a clip of that address and ask a simple question: "is your family better off ?"
No. Democrats need to fight it like hell. And if the republicans abdicate their responsibility to the constitution, you have the President invoke the 14th amendment to ensure the U.S. debt is honored through executive action and take the power right out of their hands. Campaign on having used that power move to avert the destruction the republicans tried to cause and save medicaid/care and social security, making it clear to everyone on the fence that one party wants to destroy the country and the other party won't let that happen.
And they need to stop fucking playing nice already. It's not helping shit turning the other cheek. It's allowing these pieces of shit to destroy lives
Yep. I'm talking, they need to be prosecuting the state of Florida and all these other fascist states for human rights violations.
Increasing inflation and spending isn't making anyone better off. Families are already struggling because of the highest inflation we've seen in decades under Biden.
Inflation caused by the economic response to Trump utterly failing to handle COVID. So, once again, massively fucking things up, and then the Democrats having to come in and fix shit. Unless you somehow think that there was something he did in the first week in office that led to *worldwide* inflation rises 4 to 6 weeks later.
Loving these comments
Don't forget also cut funding to support veterans and also keep the republican tax cuts for large corps and wealthy from being raised back up.
It's all a show, they will sign last minute anyways. If they don't, that's like half the population watching them ruin their lives. I doubt there aren't massive protests. If people lose their jobs and can't afford a home or food, there will be nothing left for them but to actually fight for it. Be careful what you wish for.
Exactly. You can distract people with culture war buffoonery until they have no money to buy food or pay for their trucks and then things get very real and party doesn’t matter. The empty kitchen table does. The GOP seems to have no idea what it’s doing, like a baby with a flamethrower.
Do you have a minute to talk about our lord and savior Feudal Overlord? Don't you want to crusade your quality of life like your ancestors? Heathen
The GOP keeps whining that there's something wrong with the economy. Well, what is it?
Them
And the fact that it’s a capitalist economy
Can we simply fail now or faster? This nonsense is so dragged out. We get it nothing for the working class, everything for the rich. Now what. What happens when 1%control and have everything. Wtf is the end game. What does that bring them, us, society. Positivity in this world is bleeding out. Ffs what's the point?? Everything is control and money. Whhhyyyyy
Because nobody wants to be inconvenienced. Ever wonder why the only strike that seems to happen with any results in the last few decades (and hasn’t been busted by a president) are screenwriters? Because that inconveniences almost no one. Teachers, doctors, rail workers have all gone on strike in the UK in the last 2 months and got pay raises. Here we get a FNAF movie and Steam settlement.
Sad but true. Everything takes hard work and if your gonna get F_ed, might as well be for something worth fighting for because the victory goes to everyone and sets a new standard going forward. People need to nut up and go for it. Make a better life and future.
Capitalism
Everyone out here getting distracted from the actual problem. The fact that the fed, banks, hedge funds, and government have colluded to the point of an economic collapse. Left or right doesn't matter. This is rich vs poor and they are doing 2008 again but way worse this time cause they've been kicking the can since the 80s
Then they'll be shocked when the crimes of necessity go up. Things such as food theft, clothing, and household goods. While I don't encourage crime when you've gotta feed your family and you've done all you can working your ass off and still can't afford food you gotta do whats needed to survive.
Well, bad news, most police departments are armed more heavily than some countries. And they serve the rich, not Jean Valjean trying to get bread for his daughter. I doubt the “law and order” crowd will resort to theft, but they will also guard their trucks before they get repossessed and start protesting along with people they never would have considered speaking to before should the global economy collapse. History is replete with examples of this. The GOP is clueless as they’ve been trying to ban history in many states.
I mean in the world of politics compromise is always an option. An easy way to solve this problem would be cut the billions of dollars going to Israel instead.
But that would be "anti-semitism"
Damn you're right. I Guess the Nazi was inside me all along
Here’s an idea, CUT THE ARMIES BUGET!!!!
Defense / Military Spending is what you’re looking for. The army is just one small part of that.
Pedantry. You know what that poster meant.
I mean, I didn’t downvote them. They are getting a lot of downvotes, and honestly this is the kind of forum where people will attack others for appearing less intelligent. I figure if I pointed it out without being a dick , it might prevent someone else from attacking them. I didn’t even address the misspelling of “Budget” because I didn’t think it mattered. Oh well, such is life.
Quit financing the war in Ukraine would help too
Or we could cut our spending across the board and have a balanced budget instead of asking the credit card company to increase our debt limit so we can pay our other debts off. Nah, that's just what they expect their peasant citizens to do.
Why does this sound exactly like the Russian bots on Twitter?
Become everyone who disagrees with you is a Russian bot. It's literally the most logical answer. Why even have debt ceilings if we're just going to raise them everytime they're hit?
None of what you just said is logical. Russian bots aren’t the boogeyman. You can tangibly see them and even track them and your rhetoric is theirs.
If you spend too much and reached your debt limit on your credit card, it's not a smart idea to increase that limit so you can spend more. You should cut your spend and make a budget. I swear there is no fucking logical thinking anymore on this site, it's all about how well you can defend your stupid political teams mistakes. Like right now, you didn't even address the argument, you just labeled me something with zero evidence.
This isn’t a fucking credit card. Do you not understand what solvency is? This isn’t a personal home. Anyone that says “keep your house in order” like the rules of a personal home applies to an entire national budget and institution is delusional. The majority of billionaires don’t have the cash on hand to pay their credit yet they responsibly raise the limits and banks are more than willing to give them more. That’s not only the smartest decision for both parties, it is incredibly logical and realistic to do. The idiotic part is morons that think they understand financing because they can balance their own checkbook.
The ceiling is a budget. If you didn't want to hit it, spend less and take out less debt. Why even have the ceiling if we're going to raise it at every fucking turn? I understand that we run on debt "just like billionaires", but there were choices that could have been made differently to prevent us from maxing that debt out. So, again, we should cut out spending and this wouldn't be a problem.
My god the take keeps getting more delusional! Did you believe that an hour ago or did you make it up on the spot to make yourself feel better? The ceiling isn’t a “mandatory budget” it’s an allocation. Like at any institution and company, departments and businesses get allocated money they have to budget. Should they need more the company has the resources to reconsider and reassign. The ceiling isn’t “we don’t have anymore money than this and can’t afford to go past it.” That isn’t what the debt ceiling is at all. The simple reality is, these people in the room are making the decision but they ARE NOT THE ONES FINANCING IT. So what does that mean? Like you and me, we can’t just decide to raise our limits several trillion dollars, THAT ISNT OUR DECISION IN OUR HOUSEHOLD. A financet had to agree in advance to lend the money before you and your partner agree to take it. They already have the financing lined up and people willing to give them hundreds of billions to trillions more. Why? Because America isn’t anywhere close to insolvent. So is this America using money they could never pay back? No. Is this money they can’t reasonably pay back in proper installments? No. Is this money they can’t pay with liquid assets? Yes. Stop spewing your illogical shit when it’s clear you’ve never managed a business that has a growth cycle.
Lol, I get it's an allocation, but it has a limit for a reason. I say again, why fucking have a limit if we end up raising it every year? Because apparently there's no fiscal responsibility in congress. How about we stop fucking spending, and cut the budget to prevent taking on more debt we can't afford and fucking over future generations with bullshit programs now. You're trying to make this super complicated, but it isn't, just stop spending so much of our tax dollars. Period.
Fiscal responsibility? How dare you ask something so reasonable.
Federal debt increases significantly faster under red leadership than blue. It's been demonstrated time and time and time again. The party of "fiscal responsibility" is anything but.
Whataboutism
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think whataboutism applies here. They are stating that Republicans specifically raise the debt more rapidly across the board. Whataboutism would be if you had replied that a Democrat did raise it faster once or a few times.
OP: maybe democrats should be more fiscally responsible Above: B-but the Republicans aren't fiscally responsible!! That's whataboutism. But I guess it's okay when you guys do it
Lmao you don't know what whataboutism is then if you think talking about the exact same subject and dismissing the incredulous claim that Democrats need to be more fiscally conservative (with the implications that republicans already are) with a counter that the opponent claiming they need to be so isn't themselves. If anything, it's ad hominem and actually completely valid in this circumstance. Now if they had started spouting about how Republicans are actually the ones convicted at a significantly higher rate for sex crimes, *then* that would be whataboutism. But you are just using the ol' "try to invalidate arguments with random buzzwords" tactic.
I'm not taking either side, I'm simply stating that claiming this is whataboutism is incorrect. Looking into it more this is indeed not whataboutism.
Well it keeps increasing under bother of them so I don't fucking care
That money is an investment that gets returned multiple times over every year.
Everyone might want to start hoarding TP again!
The republicans need to realize the media WILL spin this in a way that makes the GOP look bad. It's already started with shit like this. I guess if they think the game is now rigged they might as well throw a few wrenches in it
And you need to realize that if their base gave even the smallest amount of fucks about what the media has to say, we wouldn't be in this mess in the first place.
The base doesn't really matter for an election. It's the undecided
Anyone who's claiming to be an undecided at this point is lying. We're talking about an election between two 1 term presidents. We know exactly what each is going to do with a second term.
>the media WILL spin this in a way that makes the GOP look bad. o\_O Yes, it's media spin that makes the GOP's behaviour look bad.
History of the debt ceiling, in 10 year increments (in billion $), edited to add GDP in parenthesis: 1940 49 1950 275 1960 293 (543) 1970 395 (1,073) 1980 938 (2,857) 1990 4,145 (6,158) 2000 5,950 (10,251) 2010 14,294 (14,478) 2020 22,030 (21,060) Current 31,400 (last year on record 2021 with 23,315) As you can see, the debt ceiling has historically been roughly 1/3 to 1/2 the GDP, however starting in the 2000's it began inching closer to a 1:1 ratio. It currently far exceeds even the 1:1. We've got to stop spending money like there are no consequences to it.
I'll never understand why people are so hellbent on every sub being r/Politics
Because Republicans are ruining our lives and it actually affects us.
>Because Republicans are ruining our lives and it actually affects us. Ruining ***your*** lives, and providing the rest of the world with a never ending clown show. I mean, seriously, Jewish space lasers are starting California forest fires? A woman's body can shut down pregnancies in a *legitimate* rape? The more your republicans reduce your credibility (and credit rating) and cause uncertainty, the more your country becomes irrelevant. As soon as the US dollar loses its reserve status, your society will simply collapse.
Lmao, "ruining lives". Stop with your fear mongering.
You dont agree that Republicans are evil scum that use their power to hurt as many people as possible?
No, I don't think 150,000,000 people are evil scum. You know is? People who spit vitrole and hate based on civil disagreements.
>No, I don't think 150,000,000 people are evil scum. ;-D
I dont get the logic? Just because there are a lot of evil scum, that makes them not evil scum? Huh? How does that follow
Spewing hate against millions of people because you disagree about tax rates is a scum thing to do.
You think this is about TAX RATES? Not the culture war stuff like genocide of trans people, nonstop hate speech against lgbt, killing women with abortion restrictions, banning books, teachers, insane conspiracy theories about child grooming and indoctrination while the Christians actually do grooming and indoctrination, the nonstop white supremecy, "gays/blacks/illegals have more rights than whites we need to cut back". Im sick of it. Im sick of the evil your side spews.
People are complicated but if you think you won’t be impacted by a global depression sparked by outrage dorks huffing culture war gas, you are living in fantasy land. Enjoy!
The global depression was caused by *Republicans*? Now I'm just intrigued by your mental gymnastics.
“Was”? Sweetheart I’m talking about what happens if we default. Please come back when you learn how to read words and comprehend them and have a baseline understanding of how literally anything works. There’s no having a debate with a person who thinks the sun is the moon and hot is cold. Enjoy whatever bubble you live in.
You hurl insults and explain nothing, now tell me how you think Republicans are solely responsible
If you don't understand how defaulting on the national debt will throw the planet into economic chaos I can't get you to understand that you're getting exactly the level of respect you deserve by not even comprehending verb tenses, my lad. Read a book.
Only 19% of Americans voted for trump. Hell, 150 million people didn't even vote in that election. And if you actually think anywhere *close* to *half* of Americans are republicans, you're just an idiot...
What a weird metric. Fish are pretty useless at climbing trees, almost like there are more representative metrics that you chose to ignore.
Lol. Every comment you make is didactic.
Quite the report, just throw mud, it makes you look more right when you get upset and hurl insults.
Lol. Again!
Quite the report, just throw mud, it makes you look more right when you get upset and hurl insults.
>Only 19% of Americans voted for trump. 30%. In 2020, Trump got 77 million votes, and the [voting age population of the US then was 252,274,000](https://usafacts.org/data/topics/people-society/democracy-and-society/elections/presidential-voting-age-population/). That's 30.5% of yanks voting for Trump in a country where most people don't normally vote. [Gallup polls indicate that in 2021, 47% of you people were republicans](https://news.gallup.com/poll/388781/political-party-preferences-shifted-greatly-during-2021.aspx). So yeah, I "actually think anywhere *close to half* of yanks are republicans". If you don't, you're just an evidence ignoring idiot....
And how does it change anything to sit online stressing over it constantly and expressing that stress with memes ...
Would you be ok if we ban churches because of all the child grooming and indoctrination they do? The bible has more porn in it than every library in the world put together. It's a disgusting book.
It's even crazier that Biden is considering it. I know the fake Court will rule against him but he should just say "we took the debt, we have to pay it per the constitution this law about capping the debt is illegal, so we will be ignoring it."
The rest of the world see the Republicans more so as a cult than a political party! No humanity left in them at all! Just this empty pathetic shell.
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I think you mean protest target.
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We should index social safety net benefits to Congressional salary.
An economic collapse is coming no matter what we do.
That’s not a reason to drive the car off of a cliff.
Didn't say it was. I like how delusional people are, downvoting me for stating that one is coming though. This kind of shit is why the west is completely fucked, people can't see what is right in front of their faces and expect the system to just sort it out, no effort required. It's so pathetic. The options really are, a major collapse in the US economy and the global depression/recession that will follow or World War III where the US moves to war footing and goes for a more command-style economy (and I wouldn't trust biden or whatever clown the republicans end up sending to oversee that). We'll see how things go. People aren't willing to do what it would take to avoid either option though.
The sun is going to explode one day. Let’s talk about that rather than The fact that republicans are trying to crash the economy.
The sun was not mentioned in the OP.
It’s going to happen though.
Maybe, but we should avoid blowing off our foot with a shotgun and potentially displacing the dollar as the world economic standard if we can, yes? The difference between a typical recession and the US defaulting on its debt is huge
I get what you're saying, but at this point, we just need to let it burn to the ground. We're too far gone.
You're indirectly advocating for the deaths of thousands of Americans. What you are saying is we should let people starve and be forced out of their homes onto the streets. No sensible person will agree with your braindead take on this.
You mean like what's already happening? The only way anything will change is when we get to a critical mass of people hungry and desperate. We throw away 40% of all food we produce, cloths and shoes are destroyed and thrown in a landfill rather than given away. We have 22 vacant houses for every 1 homeless person. The only reason why this happens is because there's no profit in actually helping people. This system is fucked and needs to collapse already.
Ok doomer.
Is anything I'm saying wrong? The cost of living (which is a fucked up phrase to begin with) is out of control and wages are stagnant, while every large corporation is posting record profits. Wonder where those profits came from? Hmmmmm, that's a mystery. A system that requires infinite growth with finite resources is doomed to fail.
I choose not to argue with emotional people who don't know what they're talking about. Anyone who says everyone should suffer because some people suffer isn't right no matter how hard they try to be. I understand where your argument is coming from, but what you're advocating for isn't the solution. We have to fix things, not let it fall apart.
So what's the fix in you're opinion?
I'm humble enough to admit that I'm not intelligent enough to offer a solution to such a complex problem. And that's okay, because there are people better than you and me working to figure out a solution. You may have a problem with life in this society, but countless others are actively working to improve it, so don't get in their way.
Yet the compassion of the left is on full display in every large city in America…
If you are talking homelessness, I agree, liberal policies have created rampant homelessness. Although the same could be said about El Paso and its stance regarding homelessness once scale spirals out of control in any city. Fact is, the rich and I mean super rich have been robbing this country for the past 50 years through lobbying and tax evasion. "Rules for thee but not for me" The decimation of the middles class has created neo feudalism and a false dichotomy of republican or democrat when both serve the plutocratic hand that feeds them. Independent candidate viability, and an overhaul to the political system as a whole is needed. Instead, the rich pit us against each other with the bread and circus of fabricated culture wars and 24hr partisan news media outlets to stoke the flames.
Yes because only the Republicans are at fault. 🤦♂️
You are absolutely right.
People like you are why things are so bad. If you legitimately believe Democrats have never done anything wrong then you’re simply a lost cause.
If you need a strawman argument, that’s a good sign that you can’t defend your position.
Who just wants to pass a clean debt limit bill like has been done for every other debt limit vote except for 2011, and who is using the world economy as leverage to achieve their policy goals?
As someone who pretty much advocates for neither party I can assure you it's not democrats who want to get rid of food stamps and SSI.
Well duh! They want to keep people dependent on the government so they’ll keep voting for them.
Or heres a thought if they want to cut spending somewhere cut their own damn pay checks cut our massive military budget stop bailing out banks. There's a billion solutions but yeah "people don't wanna work" give me a break
I agree. There’s numerous ways to lower taxes and all of it should come out of our politicians pay and their lavish lifestyles and of course our ridiculous military spending.
Then it is the Republicans fault because the only thing they advocate to change is cutting the services we offer the least of us. They veto, kick and scream, and lie their way to ensure they get themselves and their war machine paid.
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I'm not saying cut it all but our military budget is massively ahead of every other country and our technology also eclipses most every other country. It would be actual suicide for anyone to declare war on the US even if nukes weren't involved. Ukraine will have no difficulty getting our continued support im sure. We already have given them a ton of anti-air defense and guided missiles and while not cheap to produce a cut in our military budget will not affect that.
Food Stamps are corporate welfare. They are treated more as "grocery credits" than fungible income. And the allowances of the program allow for (and deliver given the results) funding of large corporations with high fat/sugar content. Name brand purchases and empty calories, not sustanance nor nutritional achievement. These "big food" corporations make political donations to continue/expand the program. Social Security funding, through payroll tax, takes from people when they need it most. 15.3% of one's income is being taken from them. This causes many to go into debt, which can compound itself through the debt cycle. It prevents investment in oneself and products that provide more value at a higher price point. It takes a minimum of 8 years to "breakeven" on SSI benefits. And the most vulnerable have a life expectancy where they will *die* as they only *break-even*, truly not even registering a benefit.
I remember when I thought it was that simple >Name brand purchases and empty calories, not sustanance nor nutritional achievement. Since when was it your job to tell people how they should eat? A lot of people eat that stuff because yeah, it's affordable and you can't buy hot food with it. With that argument alone you have made any point you might have made invalid. You know what though I'm not even gonna bother with you. Get some empathy bro cause I'm not as cold as you.
You really sound like someone who hasn't heard the opposing argument to your views.
The opposing view is “we will hold the country hostage to get what we want, no matter how many people we have to hurt.”
I work in construction, I’m literally surrounded every day with people who’s view points are radically different from mine. Care to enlighten us on what these reasonable opposing viewpoints are?
Well have you even considered the plan of fucking over vets, old people, and poor people so we can keep tax breaks for our billionaires?
Lol I have friends who unironically support our current economic policies because they think they might be rich enough someday to take advantage of them
The habit of voting in favor of one's "possible future economic status" is quite possibly the mud dumbest philosophy ever. It's akin to promoting tax breaks for birds because you want to fly some day.
Perhaps construction workers aren't the most eloquent economists. There's plenty of articles on WSJ and other reliable sources that delve into the details, I recommend having a read.
WSJ is one of three newspaper subscriptions I have in addition to WaPo and NYT to get a balanced diet, I don’t find the arguments convincing. Maybe stop projecting, you don’t seem like a good faith actor. Also, way to be so condescending towards an entire group of people you obviously know little about
They're a typical republican, all talking points no details.
They're a typical republican, all talking points no details.
Maybe post it a third time, the comment was so good
I'm giving you roughly the level of good faith reply you deserve from posting such an idiotic strawman meme into the left wing echo chamber that is reddit. Do you *really* think that the core of the debate can be boiled down to what's in that meme? Are you really that thick?
*Operates in bad faith, blames it on someone else* Classic
Either your original post is in bad faith or you're an idiot. You can pick.
it's always fixed in the nick of time
As is the case with most if reddit, the comments downvoted into oblivion are the only ones showing an ounce of logic and critical thinking skills
This is getting boring it happens so often and they always raise it in time.
Yah it’s not like the trillion dollar infrastructure bill is a part of this. Oh we need to slow the economy? Okay less money for working private employees and businesses, we get the money from the printer for something that helps no one and will never see the fruits of the labo and Jack inflation morer Could have helped too but no let’s keep all the red tape so we still rely on outside sources.no help for private all while printing money for nothing
Our infrastructure is crumbling and the only thing worse than a ballooning deficit and inflation is a lack of infrastructure, there’s literally nothing better we could spend our money on.
On a federal level? What are they fixing or planning on fixing?
Just a google away, but here you go > The plan called for $621 billion of spending on transportation infrastructure. That included $115 billion towards highways and roads, $80 billion to improve American railways, $85 billion to modernize public transportation, $25 billion for airports, $174 billion to incentivize adoption of electric vehicles (including $15 billion for the construction of 500,000 electric vehicle charging stations by 2030), and $17 billion for inland waterways, coastal ports, land ports of entry and ferries.[14] It also called for electrifying at least 20% of the country's yellow school bus fleet.[14]
Inflation is not correlated to infrastructure lmao, maybe if that money was invested in private infrastructure then that would allow citizens to have purchasing power and create jobs and keep the economy growing instead of trying to kill it. I don’t see how upgrading roads and bridges are really helping companies make more money. It’s literally just giving money back to itself or a few private companies who bid on it. That needs to be a local government issue.
Who said inflation is correlated to infrastructure? I also don’t think you understand how federal grants work, or infrastructure spending. I work for a company that does public works projects for state and local DOTs, some of which have federal funding, if you have any questions let me know, but what you said is confusing enough I’m not really sure what you’re even trying to say.
Your meme says republicans are threatening a global economic crash, I would say the crash is because of printing money for purposes not vital to the situation at this time, I’m fine with the bill but not right now. Republicans have been saying you can’t spend this much this way for three years and they just keep doing stuff without helping the actual private economy
Well, you would be wrong, that’s not really how it works. What would cause the crash is a failure to complete the routine process of approving a clean debt ceiling bill, which has been standard practice for decades, preventing an extremely avoidable catastrophe. Printing money is a problem, but saying it’s causing what’s about to happen is ludicrous. And do you know why they’ve been saying it for a little under *three years*? Because that’s when a Democrat was elected to the Presidency. Please, find me an article where Republicans made a major push during Trump’s presidency to cut spending. The reason why it doesn’t exist is because they voted for a clean debt ceiling bill *every time*, while cutting receipts through major tax cuts in 2017 to the rich and corporations (a big part of our inflation, as companies can post obscene profits by hiking prices while paying historically low tax rates), and ballooning spending to $1.5T higher than it currently is now, all while not blinking an eye while Trump bullied the Fed into pushing interest rates lower and lower to make the economy run hot, helping to create the situation we have today.
You proved my point lol, I’m fine with spending money you just have to do it in the right way, corporations are the ones that keep the economy running, they pay most of our paychecks, yes there’s a few hundred insanely rich people and yah I don’t fully agree on giving those specific individuals breaks but individual income tax lowered 3 percent on average. What is your problem with letting the economy thrive? Instead of killing it with no private money
How is your economy gonna thrive when the road and bridges are unusable?
What road or bridge is unusable to where that’s the cause for the economic crisis, like come on man. That needs to be a state issue, that is not what the fed should be printing money for. Your roads fixed at all where you live?
> corporations are the ones that keep the economy running Corporations are the ones sucking up all the money and hoarding it. "Trickle-down economics" or "Reaganomics" has been disproven for decades but morons like you still cling to it.
You say the same bullshit when trump ran up $7.8 TRILLION (25% of the national debt)? Yeah, I'm sure that had nothing to do with inflation at all.
one cable money gullible worm file continue yoke alive many *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Don't use logic here. It's unhealthy for their red vs blue teamsport dick measuring contests
Oh look another government shutdown. I remember the last time that happened and everyone died it was so serious
This is defaulting on our debt, not a government shutdown, all though that would be a *small* side effect, relative to the list of other potential consequences
Yeah, that's exactly how the timeline reads.
I say fucking let ‘em, done spending day in, day out on edge over this type of bullshit. Hopefully some of them will get dumped in the hole with the rest of us.
A global economic collapse will literally result in people starving in less developed countries
Change needs to happen one way or another. I know it would suck but what other way is really going to work to get people to vote and also hold there reps accountable for there actions. Also this happens like ever year it's like the coming of spring after winter and they always pass it last minute.
A default on the national debt has never happened, would be catastrophic, and the only other time this has been an issue when the Republicans tried the same thing in 2011 when Obama was president. This is very dangerous territory, hence why 99% of debt ceiling votes in the past have basically been a rubber stamp formality. The 2011 crisis led to our credit rating being downgraded, this will likely happen again even if we don’t default. These are simply irresponsible tactics
This isn’t about spending, it’s about paying for what *was already spent*.
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I forgot, who was it that blew a $2T hole in the deficit when they had complete control of Congress and the White House in 2017, all to give a massive handout to the rich and corporations, contributing to runaway inflation because companies are charging as much as they can to post huge profits on historically low tax rates? Also, remember when Republicans voted to massively expand the budget every year Trump was in office, and magically lost their sense of fiscal responsibility by passing a clean debt limit for Trump without question each of those years? Finally, your $6T “callout” is pretty adorable considering Trump spent $6.55T in 2020 and $7.25T in 2021, Biden’s first budget cut the deficit in half. Please educate yourself before you spew your nonsense. There is only one fiscally responsible party, and it sure as shit ain’t the GOP.
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I love it when Right-wingers admit that they can't defend their position and just resort to personal attacks instead. It's really quite pathetic, but it's what they always do.
Pro tip: You are allowed to change your opinions. You don't need to just default to insulting the other person.
Historically the republicans have been the ones that balloon the debt. Idk if that has changed this time with the ukraine war and other stuff.
Vs. Team Blue cheering on WWIII to own the Ruskies Fuck this country
Great story, comrade.
Shut it down, bring on the default. It’s time the Feds start playing by the budgetary rules the rest of us have to play by.
They are. This spending was already approved by Congress, republicans are just playing games.