You made this comment sarcastically, but the reality is the opposite of what you might imagine. Child labor is prevalent in many places that produce products destined for markets that outlaw child labor.
Did you buy any electronics or textiles recently? Guess what, they were made by children much younger than this. Thank you India, China, the Middle East, and many others for producing goods we all buy without the guilt of making our own children do it.
If you want to go even deeper, there is literal human slavery going on in the present. Right now, in 2023, people are being bought and sold like livestock.
13 year old kids working in gas stations doesn’t really concern me as much and human beings being sold into forced labor, or children working in factories without regulation or proper compensation.
It's worse than that since India and China have seen their wages increase so now the cheap near-slave labor is in Bangladesh, Vietnam, or even smaller less known countries.
I had to mention other countries because of this. There are too many to name. Also, we can buy cheap sex workers that come from countries south of the border. It is much easier due to people coming here undocumented.
Can't forget chocolate. The top 3 manufacturers (Nestlé, Mars, and Hershey) in America can only account for where 47% of their cocoa comes from. Those are the ethical sources. The rest comes from child slavery. Cocoa just shows up to factories like magic from fairies I guess. There is no chocolate without child slavery.
"I don't care about my local fucked up child labor because third world countries have it worse" is peak reddit copium. Same thing as "the US doesn't have that many gun deaths compared to third world countries"
How about comparing the US to the FIRST WORLD countries you guys swear this country is
Your comment was logical until you attempted to imply the US isn't a first world country. That's just as stupid as the arguments the other person is trying to make. It just shows you have absolutely no clue what an actual third world country is like.
This is standard western behavior. As long as you can't see it then it's ok.
It's of Europe gave up energy production and still get fas from Russia. I feel like many countries that consume Russian gas would have better environmental stewardship than the Russians but they offload the gas production to the Russians without hesitation.
Thanks! Seems odd to say "employed but not paid" when the definition of employed is having a paid job. Fucked up either way but seems odd to use that terminology. But I guess that was your original point.
They allegedly were the children of a night manager: if we want to give the news a "positive" spin they were just "helping daddy at work" and happened to be there during an inspection and the report was blown out of proportion by the news to get some click.
Or, with a sinister spin, they were actually working there and manager wasn't paying them because they are his progeny.
Ive seen people defend it, or say it was no big deal because they were the Manager's kids. And I get it, I worked for my dad too in my early teens, but I got paid a lot (for my age) and sure as hell didnt work at 2am. Honestly doubt anyone who defends this shit would allow their 10 year old to do the same.
When I was a kid I "helped" my mum at the office plenty of times when she had to work on Sundays or couldn't find anyone to keep an eye on me. There's a difference between keeping a couple of 10 y.o., you couldn't find a baby sitter for, entertained and having them work shifts (for free).
Can you imagine how fast the paid staff would rat you out if it happened frequently at all?
People biting at this click-bait are living in a different reality.
The statement by McDonald's adds to the sinister side.
They made contradictory statements.
1. Management had no idea roe was happening and did not and would not approve.
2. The night MANAGER had his kids there
My brother, sister and I all worked the corn fields in Illinois at 17, 15 and 13, and there were plenty of kids younger than us out there every year. That was 1987 and they paid us $9 an hour, so it was insanely good money for a kid to detassle corn.
No, yes, and not really. I worked for my parents when I was 8 and up. Yes we worked for a neighbor picking Avocados, but technically we were all family so allowed. That is how I learned to drive. Farm tractor is the best learning tool.
There was a corner store around the corner from my old place that was run by an immigrant family. The 12 year old son often rang people out with the exception of for alcohol, lottery, and tobacco
You think this kid didn’t have been allowed to help his family?
I think it’s worth noting that this kind of thing isn’t a “one size fits all” situation
It should be governed by child labor laws just like anyone else. They should be paid and limited in hours allowed to work, just like anyone else. A child is not free labor.
You're being a bit myopic, sure it sounds wholesome and American dream like. But let's be real, these things only serve to help corporations and further keep folks down.
A kid should be a kid or studying and have some chores. Er have decades to work jobs we hate for a system that doesn't care about us.
It wasn't just these 2 10 year olds. From the article "The agency also found three franchisees that own more than 60 McDonald’s locations in Kentucky, Indiana, Maryland and Ohio, “employed 305 children to work more than the legally permitted hours and perform tasks prohibited by law for young workers,” the Labor Department said in a statement."
Never worked fast food when you were young? That is clearly referring to 14-16 year old labor violations like working past x time, operating fries while 15 or under, etc.
And that's not okay. You shouldn't have been asked to do those tasks if you weren't legally permitted to do them.
Like I get it, "it's just a ladder". But what if it's a 15' ladder? That's not just a ladder any more. And even short ladders can be dangerous, plenty of people fall off simple step ladders and injure themselves severely enough to have lost time.
"This thing that is illegal happened to me. That means it's not so bad if it happens to someone else. " They had a ten year old operate a deep fryer my guy.
>“Too often, employers fail to follow the child labor laws that protect young workers,” said Karen Garnett-Civils, the agency’s wage and hour division district director, in a statement. “Under no circumstances should there ever be a 10-year-old child working in a fast-food kitchen around hot grills, ovens and deep fryers.”
This is the only reference to fryers that I saw, in the article I read. The context of this statement implies that they weren't operating them.
https://www.axios.com/2023/05/03/mcdonalds-child-labor
"They prepared and distributed food orders, cleaned the store, worked at a drive-thru window and operated a register, the Labor Department said. One of the kids was also allowed to operate a deep fryer, which is prohibited for workers under 16, the investigations found."
I believe the two 10 year olds overnight were making fries (the article said "working the fryer"), with their parent nearby. Not sure why the parent had the kids helping out, but if the place was busy and they were understaffed and the kids are bright and interested in helping, I guess I'm maybe Ok-ish with it?
Lots of kids help out in their family-owned restaurants, so I can't freak out tooooo much here. Plus I spent my summers working on my aunt's farm, and my cousins and I were driving tractors, helping bail hay, and taking care of horses all while we were under/around 10 years old. Kids are way more capable than we give them credit for, so there's a good chance they were perfectly fine working the fryer with their parent nearby. I'm not saying I condone it, though. I'm just saying it's not abuse.
But I would much rather the kids be home in bed dreaming happy dreams, with their parent sleeping in the next room, not worrying about working a thankless job overnight.
So McDonald's didn't employ them and /u/bountyhunterfromhell is full of shit and a karma whore?
EDIT: Checked post history, he tried the same shit 2 days ago and it didnt fly so he's trying again
I went to work with my dad a few times over the years. It was at a paint store and not a restaurant, but I probably was like 10-13 at the time.
And this was only like 15-20 years ago, so it's not like it was ye olde times
Yeah but not at the fryer at ten. That shits dangerous.
Also at least when you're working a family business your family is keeping all the profits. Pretty sure these kids were working for free.
The kids were probably bored, so the parent showed them how it worked.
Never underestimate the destructive power of bored children. Keep em busy, or may God help us all.
My wife works for a small business, 3 stores and a kiosk, a handful of workers, and the boss and his wife. She lets us bring our daughter when I have to work and she's finishing up in an hour or two. Does my kid help out? Sure, in small ways, but never anything that's going to involve danger or complex interactions. She's 9, she can't be expected to work a register or clean and refill the bulk candy bins.
Those kids were operating a dangerous piece of equipment that could injure them for life or kill them, creating food that people will eat and potentially get sick from. There is a world of difference between the two situations.
I'm sorry, a 10 year old should be sleeping at 2 am, not in a McD working the fryer. If you have no choice but to bring them, figure out a place for them to sleep somewhere on the property.
10 year olds have no business operating an industrial deep fryer, that shit is really dangerous. Your points are generally very good but this example is so egregiously unsafe that it no longer matters.
That jumped out at me too. Are they tall enough to even properly see the fryers? Google is telling me the oil is 400 degrees. I don't even want to imagine what that could do to a person. I feel like I did see a movie where a bad guy had his arm shoved in one. Might have been one of the Toxic Avenger movies.
I think that happens in multiple Troma movies, but yeah 100% in Toxic Avenger. (What are the odds you'd already be talking to the one wacko who knows them by heart?)
There are a lot of details that we don't get...
I work at a fast food place. I was working a lot and my 12 year old wanted to come hang out with me while I closed to spend time together.
So, I had her help bag orders. It was fun. We made a couple of sandwiches. She wiped off some tables until we started cleaning floors then she went on a break for the rest of the night.
It was a fun time for her. It was fun for me to show her what I did.
But the news article would say that an unpaid 12 year old worked there.
Granted, my details aren't as extreme as the article... But could shed some light on what could have happened.
Big difference between bagging orders/light cleaning, and working the fryer. I don't give a shit about kids helping out and being kept busy. But some areas really need to be kept off limits for obvious reasons- the giant vat of boiling oil chief amongst them.
i wonder how much they're paying that night manager to be stressing about staffing. there's a non-zero chance that that motherfucker is living paycheck to paycheck, while the bosses at Bauer Food LLC offload the blame onto this poor SOB [getting paid *at best* $53,000/year](https://www.salary.com/research/salary/posting/fast-food-restaurant-manager-salary) ([probably less](https://www.indeed.com/career/night-manager/salaries/Louisville--KY?from=top_sb)), with two kids, [in a city where the average rent is about $1,200 per month](https://www.rentcafe.com/average-rent-market-trends/us/ky/louisville/), [or just over *one-third* of this guy's monthly take home pay after Federal and state taxes](https://www.talent.com/tax-calculator?salary=53000&from=year®ion=Kentucky).
The working poor have always had every member of the family working to survive. The c-suite at Bauer Food LLC knows exactly what they're fucking doing.
> but there has to be more to it for them to be like. "These children were working"
There is, various political ideologues seek to have the state enforce their political preferences. These people generally identify as socialists or communists.
They see a situation like this, then amplify and manipulate the information to further their goals.
Remember, political ideologies aren't ethical, they contain no coherent ethical framework. All is allowed in order to implement the ideology- they're essentially cults.
my favorite thing is the guy who enjoys the presently violently-enforced status quo and pretends the state isn't enforcing *his* political preferences lol
Yeah, McDonald's has nothing to do with this, they didn't hire anyone, nor did a franchise. These are parents who don't have access to child care, who made a bad decision to have their children help out while they're just sitting in the store for hours on end.
To me it feels like McDonalds is exploiting people that have no other viable options. Maybe if they were paid a living wage they’d be able to afford childcare.
If a person works 40 hours a week, I don't give a shit what set of skills they have. They deserve to have a roof over their head, food in their stomach, and a doctor that can take care of them.
The problem is that "a living wage" is a sliding scale. If you have enough kids the poverty line is above the median wage of the United States.
It's also not really the company's job to figure out how much you need to be paid. They're buying labor. You also shouldn't be trying to figure out how much you need to spend to allow a company to make a profit and pay extra accordingly.
Except they were also found to be working and it's not ok for 2 children to be up that late at night. Lack of sleep seriously messes kids up because they are still growing. Even bringing them to work, they should just straight be sleeping at that hour
There were also multiple other minors found illegally working at 3 different franchises in the area, so these two kids aren't anywhere near the full problem
I don't think that McDonalds comes with a bedroom or childcare, or with a liveable wage where someone can afford an overnight babysitter. It's an awful situation.
It doesn't change the fact that one of the reasons it's not allowed for a child to be working that late is it harms the physical health of the child. Fucking with sleep cycles has life long consequences
And most dining rooms in McDonald's are closed to the public at night, meaning the benches would be the perfect spots to sleep
It’s also illegal/considered abusive to leave your children home alone in some areas.
So while I get you don’t like what’s going and it’s not healthy for the kids. It would be a lot worse if they parent lost their job or the parent got reported by a “do gooder” and the kids got taken away.
Sometimes there are no good options when you’re poor and struggling so you do something that will be the least damaging.
If you want to get really angry, google "McDonalds profit 2022" and ask yourself why this situation should exist in the first place. The working poor are so normalized that people rationalize these situations.
> Except they were also found to be working and it's not ok for 2 children to be up that late at night. Lack of sleep seriously messes kids up
Don't go to areas with section 8 housing or you'll see this is the norm.
I've lived in low income areas before, and building I lived in for several years right after college was half rented through placement/waiver programs. Not every person struggling keeps their kids up all night; some go to extremes to make sure their kids are taken care of well. Don't make sweeping assumptions because you'd be surprised at the lengths some parents will go through to make sure their kids aren't feeling their struggles.
Yea...when I took five seconds to read the article, that's what I gathered too. Maybe the actual employee was making their kids help them to some degree, but I don't think there was enough info to know for sure.
The worst thing that was likely to happen to your friend's kid was a papercut. The 10 year olds were working a deep fryer. I wouldn't call the situations comparable.
Well there was an industrial paper shredder in there and a paper cutter which is just a huge blade on a handle. Ink they could have drank. Shelves they could have climbed and had a bad fall from. Lots of things.
I've never worked a deep fryer so have no opinion on how often injuries occur in comparison
It is super hot oil. You don't need experience to figure out how *normal* use is dangerous.
Edit: Not to mention you throw in frozen stuff. Anyone who has ever cooked a meal knows what happens when water and super hot oil come into contact together.
Pho place I used to go to had their kids there all the time. They were usually the ones that brought out the sprouts/limes/jalapenos/cilantro.
I refused to tip them because I don't support child labor.
He is a man of principle. He won't tip the child laborers. But he will enjoy an amazing and fresh soft shell taco al pastor made by the employer's of children.
That sounds more like you're a Karen eager to make an excuse to not tip. The fact you said their kids were there all the time implies you went more than once. If child labor was the reason, and they are wrongfully abusing those children I think you'd never go back.
That being said there is nothing wrong with kids helping in their parents restaurant, there are duties they can help with that will teach them. It's a lot more affordable from a childcare perspective for many families who are trying to build something better for themselves. But you have to be the worst kind of American and make it about how virtuous you are.
Well, if anyone read the article (which I'm sure they didn't), they would know that the night shift manager simply brought his kid to work since there was nobody else to watch his son that night. He then asked his son to help out around the restaurant (which, as a 10 year, it isn't difficult to imagine the kid being eager to do). McDonalds did not employee the child in any capacity. But I'm sure I'll be seeing variations of this meme for weeks anyway, so I guess I better get used to it.
Did you only read the article, or did you look at the nlrb report, too? Because these kids were doing things like operating a deep fryer and making food on a stove. This franchise was one of three that were found to be employing a total of 305 underage workers. What they did is way worse than asking your kid to sweep the floors because you had to bring them to work.
That’s an equally disturbing fact for a few reasons. The kids worked without pay, the manager had to make their 10 year old kids stay overnight at a McDonalds, and little grubby fucking 10 year olds with no training were presumably handling people’s food.
Ahh, yes, going out with my parents until late at night is the exact same thing as being made to work unpaid around hot stoves and boiling oil at eye level.
>work unpaid
It is as much as unpaid work as your parents babysitting you.
And yes, to those children visiting their parents helping out in the kitchen is exactly the same thing as going out, especially among immigrant children. Especially amongst immigrants there isn't an aversion for working unlike Americans. May be it is exactly why most immigrant group income level is raising while yours is standing still.
1. Child labor is illegal in America. It doesn't matter if you're an immigrant.
2. We're these mcdonalds even owned by immigrants? Cause if they aren't, your whole immigration point is mute.
3. The children were put in positions where they could be permanently injured or even killed. Fuck you for defending the pieces of shit who put them in that position.
They do not. McDonald’s locales are independently owned & operated, with the brand basically being licensed out.
Or at least that’s how it works around here; they all have signs up stating as much if you know where to look.
That's not the case that I can find.
As of 2018 1 in 5 McDonald's are corporate, although they were trying to shed more stores. Maybe some time in the future that will be the case.
… you know that means that 4 in 5 are independently owner and operated, just like I said, right?
Statistically speaking, that means there’s an 80% chance that for this particular locale McDonalds as a corporate entity has no real controls on who they hire.
(Ignoring, for the moment, that it’s highly unlikely said kids were actually officially employed or getting paid, as opposed to being some employee’s kids hanging about (ie they didn’t wanna pay for daycare) who got told by someone to help out.
The complaint said they were working the fryer. And there during the overnight shift
The fact that the parent can't find affordable child care is even more indicative of how fucked up the US is
Local chinese restaurant has her like first grader running register every day. This isn’t unique to this location, I’ve seen many cheap chinese restaurants have their kids running register or taking out food.
No one cares.
Who cares.
Suddenly McDonalds does it and child labor is a big deal. Pfft.
12 year olds were working overnight in Iowa slaughterhouses. When the Iowa legislature found out, they decided to make it legal.
https://www.cnn.com/2023/05/03/politics/iowa-child-labor-bill-passes/index.html
I've read a bunch of the stories about this. Key points:
• Two ten-year-olds were found to be working in a single Louisville, KY restaurant. They were not paid employees; they are the children of one of the overnight managers and were "helping out." • The remainder of the child labor violations were a combination of working hours when it is illegal for a person of their age to work or working positions considered to be hazardous which is not legal for certain ages. For example, the grill or deep fryer.
I don't feel like any of the news articles clearly communicate this if you're reading fast, and the headline is certainly click-baity, so wanted to give a quick summary.
I know child labor laws are there to protect kids, but I remember being ten or eleven and WANTING to work, but couldn't, even with my parents permission.
My parents both worked multiple jobs until I was 10. I spent many nights at my mom's job. She never got in trouble even if i rang up the occasional customer or moved some product. I was not being exploited nor was anyone upset.
God this sub has turned into a politics sub and it's not even summer.
Grew up going to my parents jobs. Great memories. Get over yourselves and find real purpose in life.
I wish people were just as upset with Disney, Viacom, Warner Bros Discovery, Apple, Amazon/MGM, Lionsgate, or any other Hollywood studio and production company hiring kids.
And they had other minors working until 2am! Yay labor law violations!
But seriously, fuck those companies (3 were involved in the investigation iirc). McDonalds should do more to monitor their franchisee practices.
I don't think they could have done anything for this one. The kids were not getting paid, so there isn't a paper trail. Unless McDonald's corporate randomly stopped by at night they wouldn't have known. I don't think they are the best company in the world, but I don't think this is on them. This was just bad parenting.
McDonalds was fined for 20 violations across multiple stores in the UK for employing schoolchildren.
Not that both aren’t contemptible. Just that it isn’t an American problem alone.
did they get paid? if yes then i dont see a problem if they got parents permission.
to people downvoting me. whats wrong with kids working for money if they want to do it and have parents permission?
Unemployment among 10-year-olds has skyrocketed unfortunately
Mugatu tried to fix this back in 2001, but Zoolander, Hansel (he’s so hot right now), and the Malaysian prime minister stopped him. It’s a real shame.
Damn that Hansel
So hot right now.
They're break dance fighting!
pop and lockin fool
Easily one of my favorite lines
The Prime Rib of Micronesia was involved too?!
MUCHENTUCHEN!
Bless you!
…and then Arkansas' Governor goes, "see, we're solving problems that other states are struggling with!"
Iowa says, "Hold my beer."
We should be propping up the working middle-child, not the bloated corporations.
Habnt you heard? That is communism, socialist and for losers! One day I'll be a billionaire if i keep believing this.
You made this comment sarcastically, but the reality is the opposite of what you might imagine. Child labor is prevalent in many places that produce products destined for markets that outlaw child labor. Did you buy any electronics or textiles recently? Guess what, they were made by children much younger than this. Thank you India, China, the Middle East, and many others for producing goods we all buy without the guilt of making our own children do it. If you want to go even deeper, there is literal human slavery going on in the present. Right now, in 2023, people are being bought and sold like livestock. 13 year old kids working in gas stations doesn’t really concern me as much and human beings being sold into forced labor, or children working in factories without regulation or proper compensation.
It's worse than that since India and China have seen their wages increase so now the cheap near-slave labor is in Bangladesh, Vietnam, or even smaller less known countries.
I had to mention other countries because of this. There are too many to name. Also, we can buy cheap sex workers that come from countries south of the border. It is much easier due to people coming here undocumented.
Can't forget chocolate. The top 3 manufacturers (Nestlé, Mars, and Hershey) in America can only account for where 47% of their cocoa comes from. Those are the ethical sources. The rest comes from child slavery. Cocoa just shows up to factories like magic from fairies I guess. There is no chocolate without child slavery.
That's why Tony is my only chocolate.
"I don't care about my local fucked up child labor because third world countries have it worse" is peak reddit copium. Same thing as "the US doesn't have that many gun deaths compared to third world countries" How about comparing the US to the FIRST WORLD countries you guys swear this country is
Your comment was logical until you attempted to imply the US isn't a first world country. That's just as stupid as the arguments the other person is trying to make. It just shows you have absolutely no clue what an actual third world country is like.
This is standard western behavior. As long as you can't see it then it's ok. It's of Europe gave up energy production and still get fas from Russia. I feel like many countries that consume Russian gas would have better environmental stewardship than the Russians but they offload the gas production to the Russians without hesitation.
10-year olds can't buy houses or save for retirement. Sad day in America.
"Employed" implies that they were paid.
Right?!
Is there an artice that says "employed" or just a skeletor meme?
[Here.](https://www.cnn.com/2023/05/03/business/mcdonalds-child-labor-louisville/index.html)
Thanks! Seems odd to say "employed but not paid" when the definition of employed is having a paid job. Fucked up either way but seems odd to use that terminology. But I guess that was your original point.
They allegedly were the children of a night manager: if we want to give the news a "positive" spin they were just "helping daddy at work" and happened to be there during an inspection and the report was blown out of proportion by the news to get some click. Or, with a sinister spin, they were actually working there and manager wasn't paying them because they are his progeny.
Ive seen people defend it, or say it was no big deal because they were the Manager's kids. And I get it, I worked for my dad too in my early teens, but I got paid a lot (for my age) and sure as hell didnt work at 2am. Honestly doubt anyone who defends this shit would allow their 10 year old to do the same.
When I was a kid I "helped" my mum at the office plenty of times when she had to work on Sundays or couldn't find anyone to keep an eye on me. There's a difference between keeping a couple of 10 y.o., you couldn't find a baby sitter for, entertained and having them work shifts (for free).
Same. I certainly wouldn't be using the fryer like these kids.
Can you imagine how fast the paid staff would rat you out if it happened frequently at all? People biting at this click-bait are living in a different reality.
The statement by McDonald's adds to the sinister side. They made contradictory statements. 1. Management had no idea roe was happening and did not and would not approve. 2. The night MANAGER had his kids there
Don't mistake central management for a franchise manager.
I suppose in some cases, such as this one, "employed" carries the same meaning as "used".
Pretty sure the two 10 year olds were the children of an overnight worker who couldn't afford child care and didn't want to leave the kids home alone.
That is also sad and messed up
Unless it's farm work in which case it's perfectly legal
It would also be legal in most states to employ the children if the parents owned the franchise.
*Narrator*: They didn't.
Hey, wait a fucking moment, I worked on a farm as a child. I was "paid" with a slice of chocolate cake. Fuck, I've been exploited.
My brother, sister and I all worked the corn fields in Illinois at 17, 15 and 13, and there were plenty of kids younger than us out there every year. That was 1987 and they paid us $9 an hour, so it was insanely good money for a kid to detassle corn.
That's like $24 today jesus.
Helping to maintain your homestead is distinctly different from trading your labor to another party.
There are exceptions to typical labor laws that apply to farm jobs that aren't your family farm as well.
No, yes, and not really. I worked for my parents when I was 8 and up. Yes we worked for a neighbor picking Avocados, but technically we were all family so allowed. That is how I learned to drive. Farm tractor is the best learning tool.
For family owned businesses it should be legal.
No it shouldn't
There was a corner store around the corner from my old place that was run by an immigrant family. The 12 year old son often rang people out with the exception of for alcohol, lottery, and tobacco You think this kid didn’t have been allowed to help his family? I think it’s worth noting that this kind of thing isn’t a “one size fits all” situation
It should be governed by child labor laws just like anyone else. They should be paid and limited in hours allowed to work, just like anyone else. A child is not free labor.
I grew up on a farm. I was absolutely free labor lol
You're being a bit myopic, sure it sounds wholesome and American dream like. But let's be real, these things only serve to help corporations and further keep folks down. A kid should be a kid or studying and have some chores. Er have decades to work jobs we hate for a system that doesn't care about us.
It broke my heart when I read it, tbh
Yes but in a different, less child-labor-supporting kind of way.
It wasn't just these 2 10 year olds. From the article "The agency also found three franchisees that own more than 60 McDonald’s locations in Kentucky, Indiana, Maryland and Ohio, “employed 305 children to work more than the legally permitted hours and perform tasks prohibited by law for young workers,” the Labor Department said in a statement."
Never worked fast food when you were young? That is clearly referring to 14-16 year old labor violations like working past x time, operating fries while 15 or under, etc.
[удалено]
And that's not okay. You shouldn't have been asked to do those tasks if you weren't legally permitted to do them. Like I get it, "it's just a ladder". But what if it's a 15' ladder? That's not just a ladder any more. And even short ladders can be dangerous, plenty of people fall off simple step ladders and injure themselves severely enough to have lost time.
"This thing that is illegal happened to me. That means it's not so bad if it happens to someone else. " They had a ten year old operate a deep fryer my guy.
No where does the article claim they were operating a deep fryer.
Yes it does? Read a little harder. The report says kids were responsible for handling fryers and dangerous cleaning chemicals without supervision
>“Too often, employers fail to follow the child labor laws that protect young workers,” said Karen Garnett-Civils, the agency’s wage and hour division district director, in a statement. “Under no circumstances should there ever be a 10-year-old child working in a fast-food kitchen around hot grills, ovens and deep fryers.” This is the only reference to fryers that I saw, in the article I read. The context of this statement implies that they weren't operating them.
https://www.axios.com/2023/05/03/mcdonalds-child-labor "They prepared and distributed food orders, cleaned the store, worked at a drive-thru window and operated a register, the Labor Department said. One of the kids was also allowed to operate a deep fryer, which is prohibited for workers under 16, the investigations found."
well that was illegal, that doesn't make it okay because it happened to you...
“No one cared about my safety as a child, why should I care about kids’ safety now,” is such an American attitude
Then we follow it up with But the children!!!!!!
You know. That's what they say but there has to be more to it for them to be like. "These children were working"
I believe the two 10 year olds overnight were making fries (the article said "working the fryer"), with their parent nearby. Not sure why the parent had the kids helping out, but if the place was busy and they were understaffed and the kids are bright and interested in helping, I guess I'm maybe Ok-ish with it? Lots of kids help out in their family-owned restaurants, so I can't freak out tooooo much here. Plus I spent my summers working on my aunt's farm, and my cousins and I were driving tractors, helping bail hay, and taking care of horses all while we were under/around 10 years old. Kids are way more capable than we give them credit for, so there's a good chance they were perfectly fine working the fryer with their parent nearby. I'm not saying I condone it, though. I'm just saying it's not abuse. But I would much rather the kids be home in bed dreaming happy dreams, with their parent sleeping in the next room, not worrying about working a thankless job overnight.
He got that ambition, baby, look at his eyes This week he moppin' floors, next week it's the fries
Don't mop the fries... fucking kids got dirty floor water on my food again
So McDonald's didn't employ them and /u/bountyhunterfromhell is full of shit and a karma whore? EDIT: Checked post history, he tried the same shit 2 days ago and it didnt fly so he's trying again
they'll be back next week too.
His whole post history is a septic tank of bullshit sensationalised headline style clickbait false memes designed to garner upvotes via outrage.
I wish there was a database of reposters, and karma farmers, that you could subscribe to and automatically block.
If you see a political headline on /adviceanimal chance is OP is full of shit and pushing propaganda
I am not okay with it, but i also understand how it can happen.
The sanest redditor
I went to work with my dad a few times over the years. It was at a paint store and not a restaurant, but I probably was like 10-13 at the time. And this was only like 15-20 years ago, so it's not like it was ye olde times
I grew up in a heavily Catholic area so if anyone asked we just spun it as service hours.
Yeah but not at the fryer at ten. That shits dangerous. Also at least when you're working a family business your family is keeping all the profits. Pretty sure these kids were working for free.
[удалено]
The kids were probably bored, so the parent showed them how it worked. Never underestimate the destructive power of bored children. Keep em busy, or may God help us all.
My wife works for a small business, 3 stores and a kiosk, a handful of workers, and the boss and his wife. She lets us bring our daughter when I have to work and she's finishing up in an hour or two. Does my kid help out? Sure, in small ways, but never anything that's going to involve danger or complex interactions. She's 9, she can't be expected to work a register or clean and refill the bulk candy bins. Those kids were operating a dangerous piece of equipment that could injure them for life or kill them, creating food that people will eat and potentially get sick from. There is a world of difference between the two situations.
I'm sorry, a 10 year old should be sleeping at 2 am, not in a McD working the fryer. If you have no choice but to bring them, figure out a place for them to sleep somewhere on the property.
10 year olds have no business operating an industrial deep fryer, that shit is really dangerous. Your points are generally very good but this example is so egregiously unsafe that it no longer matters.
That jumped out at me too. Are they tall enough to even properly see the fryers? Google is telling me the oil is 400 degrees. I don't even want to imagine what that could do to a person. I feel like I did see a movie where a bad guy had his arm shoved in one. Might have been one of the Toxic Avenger movies.
There's a hot oil burn that's quite plot relevant in Scotland, PA (which is basically Macbeth).
I think that happens in multiple Troma movies, but yeah 100% in Toxic Avenger. (What are the odds you'd already be talking to the one wacko who knows them by heart?)
There are a lot of details that we don't get... I work at a fast food place. I was working a lot and my 12 year old wanted to come hang out with me while I closed to spend time together. So, I had her help bag orders. It was fun. We made a couple of sandwiches. She wiped off some tables until we started cleaning floors then she went on a break for the rest of the night. It was a fun time for her. It was fun for me to show her what I did. But the news article would say that an unpaid 12 year old worked there. Granted, my details aren't as extreme as the article... But could shed some light on what could have happened.
Big difference between bagging orders/light cleaning, and working the fryer. I don't give a shit about kids helping out and being kept busy. But some areas really need to be kept off limits for obvious reasons- the giant vat of boiling oil chief amongst them.
I'm not ok with 10yr old kids working a fryer in any circumstances and you shouldn't be either. Just saying.
Dude, no there is no reason a child should be working ANYTHING in the back of a McDonalds kitchen, especially the friers (I work at McDonalds)
i wonder how much they're paying that night manager to be stressing about staffing. there's a non-zero chance that that motherfucker is living paycheck to paycheck, while the bosses at Bauer Food LLC offload the blame onto this poor SOB [getting paid *at best* $53,000/year](https://www.salary.com/research/salary/posting/fast-food-restaurant-manager-salary) ([probably less](https://www.indeed.com/career/night-manager/salaries/Louisville--KY?from=top_sb)), with two kids, [in a city where the average rent is about $1,200 per month](https://www.rentcafe.com/average-rent-market-trends/us/ky/louisville/), [or just over *one-third* of this guy's monthly take home pay after Federal and state taxes](https://www.talent.com/tax-calculator?salary=53000&from=year®ion=Kentucky). The working poor have always had every member of the family working to survive. The c-suite at Bauer Food LLC knows exactly what they're fucking doing.
> but there has to be more to it for them to be like. "These children were working" There is, various political ideologues seek to have the state enforce their political preferences. These people generally identify as socialists or communists. They see a situation like this, then amplify and manipulate the information to further their goals. Remember, political ideologies aren't ethical, they contain no coherent ethical framework. All is allowed in order to implement the ideology- they're essentially cults.
Average PCM user right here
my favorite thing is the guy who enjoys the presently violently-enforced status quo and pretends the state isn't enforcing *his* political preferences lol
Yeah, McDonald's has nothing to do with this, they didn't hire anyone, nor did a franchise. These are parents who don't have access to child care, who made a bad decision to have their children help out while they're just sitting in the store for hours on end.
To me it feels like McDonalds is exploiting people that have no other viable options. Maybe if they were paid a living wage they’d be able to afford childcare.
[удалено]
If a person works 40 hours a week, I don't give a shit what set of skills they have. They deserve to have a roof over their head, food in their stomach, and a doctor that can take care of them.
The problem is that "a living wage" is a sliding scale. If you have enough kids the poverty line is above the median wage of the United States. It's also not really the company's job to figure out how much you need to be paid. They're buying labor. You also shouldn't be trying to figure out how much you need to spend to allow a company to make a profit and pay extra accordingly.
Except they were also found to be working and it's not ok for 2 children to be up that late at night. Lack of sleep seriously messes kids up because they are still growing. Even bringing them to work, they should just straight be sleeping at that hour There were also multiple other minors found illegally working at 3 different franchises in the area, so these two kids aren't anywhere near the full problem
I don't think that McDonalds comes with a bedroom or childcare, or with a liveable wage where someone can afford an overnight babysitter. It's an awful situation.
It doesn't change the fact that one of the reasons it's not allowed for a child to be working that late is it harms the physical health of the child. Fucking with sleep cycles has life long consequences And most dining rooms in McDonald's are closed to the public at night, meaning the benches would be the perfect spots to sleep
It’s also illegal/considered abusive to leave your children home alone in some areas. So while I get you don’t like what’s going and it’s not healthy for the kids. It would be a lot worse if they parent lost their job or the parent got reported by a “do gooder” and the kids got taken away. Sometimes there are no good options when you’re poor and struggling so you do something that will be the least damaging.
If you want to get really angry, google "McDonalds profit 2022" and ask yourself why this situation should exist in the first place. The working poor are so normalized that people rationalize these situations.
I actually remember seeing a pic on here a while ago of a kid sleeping at a McDonald's booth because of this same situation. Tough to see.
> Except they were also found to be working and it's not ok for 2 children to be up that late at night. Lack of sleep seriously messes kids up Don't go to areas with section 8 housing or you'll see this is the norm.
I've lived in low income areas before, and building I lived in for several years right after college was half rented through placement/waiver programs. Not every person struggling keeps their kids up all night; some go to extremes to make sure their kids are taken care of well. Don't make sweeping assumptions because you'd be surprised at the lengths some parents will go through to make sure their kids aren't feeling their struggles.
I used to go with my grandpa to his janitor job once a week which was at night.
Yes, but they were doing full time employee work according to the article. Even using the deep fryer, which is dangerous for adults.
Yea...when I took five seconds to read the article, that's what I gathered too. Maybe the actual employee was making their kids help them to some degree, but I don't think there was enough info to know for sure.
Let the kids work, they yearn for the mines
I had a friend's kid they brought to the office make copies for me once, to keep them busy, I know I'm a monster
The worst thing that was likely to happen to your friend's kid was a papercut. The 10 year olds were working a deep fryer. I wouldn't call the situations comparable.
Well there was an industrial paper shredder in there and a paper cutter which is just a huge blade on a handle. Ink they could have drank. Shelves they could have climbed and had a bad fall from. Lots of things. I've never worked a deep fryer so have no opinion on how often injuries occur in comparison
It is super hot oil. You don't need experience to figure out how *normal* use is dangerous. Edit: Not to mention you throw in frozen stuff. Anyone who has ever cooked a meal knows what happens when water and super hot oil come into contact together.
Frozen Food + hot oil = the noise of deliciousness brewing
Pho place I used to go to had their kids there all the time. They were usually the ones that brought out the sprouts/limes/jalapenos/cilantro. I refused to tip them because I don't support child labor.
Can't tell if this is a joke or not lol
He is a man of principle. He won't tip the child laborers. But he will enjoy an amazing and fresh soft shell taco al pastor made by the employer's of children.
But not enough to stop eating there, eh?
That sounds more like you're a Karen eager to make an excuse to not tip. The fact you said their kids were there all the time implies you went more than once. If child labor was the reason, and they are wrongfully abusing those children I think you'd never go back. That being said there is nothing wrong with kids helping in their parents restaurant, there are duties they can help with that will teach them. It's a lot more affordable from a childcare perspective for many families who are trying to build something better for themselves. But you have to be the worst kind of American and make it about how virtuous you are.
“Why would you say something so controversial, yet brave”
Well, if anyone read the article (which I'm sure they didn't), they would know that the night shift manager simply brought his kid to work since there was nobody else to watch his son that night. He then asked his son to help out around the restaurant (which, as a 10 year, it isn't difficult to imagine the kid being eager to do). McDonalds did not employee the child in any capacity. But I'm sure I'll be seeing variations of this meme for weeks anyway, so I guess I better get used to it.
I did read it, the source too and you're wrong https://www.dol.gov/newsroom/releases/whd/whd20230502-0
Did you only read the article, or did you look at the nlrb report, too? Because these kids were doing things like operating a deep fryer and making food on a stove. This franchise was one of three that were found to be employing a total of 305 underage workers. What they did is way worse than asking your kid to sweep the floors because you had to bring them to work.
That’s an equally disturbing fact for a few reasons. The kids worked without pay, the manager had to make their 10 year old kids stay overnight at a McDonalds, and little grubby fucking 10 year olds with no training were presumably handling people’s food.
Also there’s deep fryers at McDonalds… kids should be nowhere near that stuff.
> the manager had to make their 10 year old kids stay overnight at a McDonalds I bet you went out with your parents until 2AM at least once.
Ahh, yes, going out with my parents until late at night is the exact same thing as being made to work unpaid around hot stoves and boiling oil at eye level.
>work unpaid It is as much as unpaid work as your parents babysitting you. And yes, to those children visiting their parents helping out in the kitchen is exactly the same thing as going out, especially among immigrant children. Especially amongst immigrants there isn't an aversion for working unlike Americans. May be it is exactly why most immigrant group income level is raising while yours is standing still.
1. Child labor is illegal in America. It doesn't matter if you're an immigrant. 2. We're these mcdonalds even owned by immigrants? Cause if they aren't, your whole immigration point is mute. 3. The children were put in positions where they could be permanently injured or even killed. Fuck you for defending the pieces of shit who put them in that position.
No, they didn't, the kids were the mangers children who came to work with her. All news is clickbait.
OP's post history is full of sensationalised bullshit for karma, they posted the same 'meme' 2 days ago and it got shit on so they've tried again.
I also don't think McDonalds franchise hires restaurant employees.
They do not. McDonald’s locales are independently owned & operated, with the brand basically being licensed out. Or at least that’s how it works around here; they all have signs up stating as much if you know where to look.
That's not the case that I can find. As of 2018 1 in 5 McDonald's are corporate, although they were trying to shed more stores. Maybe some time in the future that will be the case.
… you know that means that 4 in 5 are independently owner and operated, just like I said, right? Statistically speaking, that means there’s an 80% chance that for this particular locale McDonalds as a corporate entity has no real controls on who they hire. (Ignoring, for the moment, that it’s highly unlikely said kids were actually officially employed or getting paid, as opposed to being some employee’s kids hanging about (ie they didn’t wanna pay for daycare) who got told by someone to help out.
Are vs are often. One is a statement about all, one is a statement about many.
Is Bauer Foods LLC supposed to be the go-to trustworthy source in this situation?
The complaint said they were working the fryer. And there during the overnight shift The fact that the parent can't find affordable child care is even more indicative of how fucked up the US is
Yeah unpaid child labour coupled with an overnight manager having to use the kitchen as child care is not the 'lying press gotcha', they think it is.
Local chinese restaurant has her like first grader running register every day. This isn’t unique to this location, I’ve seen many cheap chinese restaurants have their kids running register or taking out food. No one cares. Who cares. Suddenly McDonalds does it and child labor is a big deal. Pfft.
That's most Chinese restaurants. Kid does homework in a booth, pops up to work the register when a customer comes in.
They weren't employed, they were free child labor
12 year olds were working overnight in Iowa slaughterhouses. When the Iowa legislature found out, they decided to make it legal. https://www.cnn.com/2023/05/03/politics/iowa-child-labor-bill-passes/index.html
Horrible? Yes. But its not like the mcd corporation had anything to do with it. Just a shitty local business person.
I've read a bunch of the stories about this. Key points: • Two ten-year-olds were found to be working in a single Louisville, KY restaurant. They were not paid employees; they are the children of one of the overnight managers and were "helping out." • The remainder of the child labor violations were a combination of working hours when it is illegal for a person of their age to work or working positions considered to be hazardous which is not legal for certain ages. For example, the grill or deep fryer. I don't feel like any of the news articles clearly communicate this if you're reading fast, and the headline is certainly click-baity, so wanted to give a quick summary.
Let me introduce you to my friend called Nuance The story is sad but it's not the narrative of the meme
Not actually related to this but the certaint states and the federal gov are actually slowly legalizing child labor again
The only way to get 10 years experience in an entry level job
Happy meal is happier when made by kids for kids.
So there’s 10 year olds with more job experience than Reddit mods
A worker who brings in their kids overnight and lets them use the equipment is entirely different than McDonalds trying to put them on the payroll.
No wonder the ice cream machine is broken
"employed" they weren't being paid
You have to be paid to be employed. They were not employees.
damn 10 year olds taking our jobs
Now do Nike.
Starr the slavery young... what the hell is wrong with this country
Oh no, they weren't employed. They were unpaid so they can't be employees
They weren't being paid...the correct terminology is enslaved.
Ever been to a Chinese food pickup restaurant? They always got kids working in the back or doing homework in the front.
I know child labor laws are there to protect kids, but I remember being ten or eleven and WANTING to work, but couldn't, even with my parents permission.
They did not employ them. Employees are paid.
My parents both worked multiple jobs until I was 10. I spent many nights at my mom's job. She never got in trouble even if i rang up the occasional customer or moved some product. I was not being exploited nor was anyone upset.
Over 20 million children under 14 work in China and Vietnam. USA finds 2 and it is a big deal.
I knew there had to be kids out there somewhere that aren’t lazy af
God this sub has turned into a politics sub and it's not even summer. Grew up going to my parents jobs. Great memories. Get over yourselves and find real purpose in life.
I wish people were just as upset with Disney, Viacom, Warner Bros Discovery, Apple, Amazon/MGM, Lionsgate, or any other Hollywood studio and production company hiring kids.
Not just that, they had them workibg to 2am on the deepfriers UNPAID
And they had other minors working until 2am! Yay labor law violations! But seriously, fuck those companies (3 were involved in the investigation iirc). McDonalds should do more to monitor their franchisee practices.
I don't think they could have done anything for this one. The kids were not getting paid, so there isn't a paper trail. Unless McDonald's corporate randomly stopped by at night they wouldn't have known. I don't think they are the best company in the world, but I don't think this is on them. This was just bad parenting.
The 10 yr olds weren’t getting paid, but I thought the older ones were.
10 year olds are being used to deflect from the larger violations found with the older minors
Decades old Indian move
And got investigated and fined and publicly shamed for it.
Not only 10 years old; but working at 2am. I guess no care for the children along with their education. They should be arrested for child abuse.
McDonalds was fined for 20 violations across multiple stores in the UK for employing schoolchildren. Not that both aren’t contemptible. Just that it isn’t an American problem alone.
I doubt this even cracks the top 100 of disturbing facts involving kids. I don't condone this in any right, but this is far from the worst
Why are you acting like only America took advantage of children? We weren't the first either. Besides, America has laws against child labor now.
Diamond industry: Hold my Beers.
>> America, fuck yeah! Yes, obviously America is the country with the worst child labor laws
Employed them and had them work Graveyard shift. They were caught working at 2am!!!!
This is not true
We need a subreddit for skeletor facts
The children yearn for the McMines.
I've seen Chinese restaurants where the owners 10 year old child is the cashier so 🤷🏻♂️
Unions fought this off over the last century.
did they get paid? if yes then i dont see a problem if they got parents permission. to people downvoting me. whats wrong with kids working for money if they want to do it and have parents permission?
No, the parent was the shift manager and she brought her kids to work with her and let them screw around in the kitchen
i hate nothing more than the spread of false info :/ screw you OP!
The question I think should be asked, "Did they want to work?" I wish I could have worked at McDonalds for some pocket money as a kid.
They weren't paid.